7 October 2014

Lexington Shambhala
Length: 19:45
Interviewee: Bob Crabtree
Interviewer: Olivia Craig, Sadie, emily
Interviewee Initials: BC
Interviewer Initials: OSE
[OSe]
How did Buddhism begin?
[BC]
It started in India, with the teachings of Buddha. It then spread throughout India
and into other countries. These countries already had a religion, a culture, maybe
several religions. And Buddhism didnt just uproot it and throw it all away; it
actually became part of it. They actually blended with it. And every country it went
into was different. Buddhism is to Hinduism as Christianity is to Judaism. It was a
Hindu country, Buddhism was born there, or came to be there, so it had many
aspects of Hinduism and then it went into other countries that perhaps had other
religions and through time, it was 2500 years ago that Buddha was in India, through
time it has spread through first the low, small countries then went through China. It
was, what Ive heard people say, it was sort of Chinafied. And what it was called in
China was Chong; Buddhism was called Chong. And what was also there was
Confucianism and Daoism. All three of those were there; all three began
approximately the same time. All three existed together and then Buddhism went
from China to Japan, and became Zen. There was already these practices in Japan
that Buddhism just sort of blended with and became part of the culture, the religious
culture. So then, Tibet actually was not ____, Tibet actually approximately 1,200
years ago, more or less sometime around the 8th century I think, it actually went,
and Buddhism was brought from India, straight from India, into Tibet. And there
was what they called two different spreadings of Buddhism in Tibet. The first one
came in and existed for a while and it sort of died out. It actually became, people
started using it to make money and stuff, and it sort of died out and went
underground, and then came back approximately 1,000 years ago and its been
through many different changes and then it came to the West. We actually draw on
two Buddhist traditions from Tibet. Our more ancient, secular tradition, Shambhala
is more ancient, and the two Buddhists are Nema and Cognu. WE are not part of The
Dilama, is a separate lineage. There are four main ones; the Dilama is a head of the
Galuk, which is actually the biggest group. And when it came to the West, different
teachers have noticed that. Let me tell you something, dont believe what I say,
check it out, everything I say should be, but Im giving you the best I can, but my
dates and my exact things, you know you might want to check them out. So actually,
Carl Young, I think it was said, East is East, West is west, and everything in between
shall meet. And you actually see that when our teacher came here to start teaching.
At first he was teaching pretty traditional Buddhism, but then he realized he needed

to change some things because the West is a lot different, and actually thats one
reason he started bringing Shambhala in. Shambhala was not taught anywhere until
30 years ago, or something like that. He came here; he was run out of Tibet, when
the Dialama, our teacher, brought Shambhala to the United States. He actually left
Tibet like the Dialama and the other high Lamas. The Chinese were trying to get
them captured and killed. And he went to India, set up shop there, like The Dilama
did with all the other Tibetans. First he went to England and Scotland, and the he
came to the United States and started teaching traditional Buddhism, and then
Shambhala. The culture is generally, in Tibet, is that in the East, Buddhism would be
primarily Millay people, or Monastics, like monks. The monks are supported by the
community, bringing food and things like that. So what came to the West, well
actually there are traditions in the East but this is mostly in the West, is whats
called House Owners/Home Owners practice. People in the West have a lot of
money and a lot of time that they can actually practice on the weekend or in the
evenings; they dont work daylight to dark so they have that extra time and money
that we can actually spend it on things. You actually work, you raise a family, you
own a home, and then on the weekend or in the summer or vacation or things like
that, you can actually go on retreats or take longer courses or you save up money
and go on a longer retreat or something like that. But the primary practice in the
West is whats called a homeowners tradition.
[OSE]
Have you always practiced Buddhism?
[BC]
I was not born a Buddhist. Ive been doing this for about, I dont know exactly when
I received meditation instruction, but it was several years ago. And I actually began,
I remember, this one date, it was 1996 September; I actually came here and began
doing whats called Shambhala training levels. We began retreats, you do level one,
level two, level three, its that type of thing. And we would leave Friday, its Friday
evening, all day Saturday and al day Sunday. Then Ive done the classes, Ive been to
retreats, it was 20 years ago, that I became a Buddhist. Ive actually taken Buddhist
vows. Theres very few people in the United States Id say that were born Buddhists.
There are some, some of the people here at Shambhala actually have children who
are grown now, but they were brought up in Shmabhala tradition and are Buddhists.
[OSE]
Have you ever faced discrimination?
[BC]
Have I ever faced discrimination? Im not sure I can really say Ive every really been
discriminated against, or barred from some particular place or been told you cant
belong to this because youre a Buddhist. But certainly some people would not want
anything to do with me because of Buddhism.
[OSE]

Is there any specific diet you go by?

[BC]
No.
[OSE]
What are the scriptures that you guys read and practice?
[BC]
I would say there are certain scriptures. Certain teachings were taught by the
Buddha and are still taught. Now, Buddhism is sort of a living tradition and different
teachers actually take these teachings and sort of make them applicable to today.
You know, you consider, when the Buddha lived, times were very different. You had
to take a box cart or walking to get to anywhere, there were no airplanes, there were
no cellphones or any of those types of things. So things have to be made applicable
to today. And some of the teachings would be things like the 4 noble truths, the 8
fold path, the 4 immeasurable, the 4 karmas, the 4 reminders, the 3 fold purity,
those would all be things that pretty much were things that Buddha taught and they
are taught today. The examples, the metaphors, the stories told to show them or
help you understand them would be modern.
[OSE]
If you could tell someone one thing about being Buddhist, what would it be?
[BC]
Well, I think one thing, if you ask all the senior students here that question, youd get
as many answers as people you ask. I would say theres one set of things thats
actually, Buddhism is not about concepts. Its not about answering questions once
and for all. Its about being open, about being curious. That would be the main
thing, I think to be open to everything. Buddhists believe in two things: practice and
study. And not just Eastern teachings, our teacher actually talks about the Greek
studies like Socrates and Plato.
[OSE]
So you said you have to take vows to become a member?
[BC]
To be a Buddhist. Actually, theres actually instruction in some books. If youve
studied or practiced with a teacher or in some place but have never taken vows and
have wanted to take vow, you could actually do that without a teacher there. So you
take vows, our teacher can do it, and there are certain appointees that can take your
vows, but not to be a member here. We probably have lots of members that are
Buddhists but have not taken vows. Ive taken vows and probably most of the
members here have taken vows. And there are many vows. The first vow that you
take to become a Buddhist is called the Refuge Vow. And thats when youre
becoming a refugee. We do that about once a year here. Shambhala centers, more

or less like this, are in every continent except Antarctica. There are about 100
centers in the United States and Canada. But Richard John comes here and does a
weekend, every Memorial Day, to give vows. But you have to be at a certain level to
do that.