6/10/2015

Howtocalculatesurgeforcesonpipingsystems?IntergraphCADWorx&Analysis

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Howtocalculatesurgeforcesonpiping#3741808/13/1009:20PM
systems?

1registered
(Nagarjun),18Guests
and3Spidersonline.

Kuramadenz

Higuys!

Key:Admin,GlobalMod,
Mod

Member
Registered:
08/13/10
Posts:2
Loc:Philippines

Ineedsomehelphere.

June

Iamanalyzinga40"LNGline,withasurgepressureof
9.14bargandavolumetricflowrateof14,000m^3/hr.I
needtosolvefortheforcedevelopbythissurge
pressureonmypipingsystem,sothatIcananticipate
preciselytheloadsactingonmydirectionalanchorsand
guides.Ijustdon'tknowtherightformulaforit,orhow
tocalculateitprecisely.Anyonehaveanyideasonhow
tocalculatesurgeforces?Pleasehelpmeoutherefolks..
Ijustneeditbadly..

_________________________
Kuramadenz

Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems? [Re:Kuramadenz]

Registered:
01/20/05
Posts:76
Loc:Singapore

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Thankyouverymuch!

the_dude

Su M Tu W Th F Sa

#3743908/15/10 11:50PM

Calculatingsurgeloadsisnotastraightforwardexercise
unfortunately.MosttimesIhaveexperiencedthisthe
approachhasbeenvery,veryconservative.ie:PxAx
DLF,whichisbasicallyassuminganinstantvalveclosure
andassumingthesamepressurerisefortheentirepiping
systemregardlessofthelengthorconfiguration.
Itisworthspeakingtoanexperiencedprocessengineer
whohaspracticalpipingandsiteknowledge.Youneedto
knowthesurgerise,thevalveclosuretime,thevalvetype
(todetermineeffectiveclosuretime),acousticvelocityand
someotherthings.Aprocessengineercantellyouall
thosethings,andtheyshouldbeabletohelpworkout
realisticloadsdevelopedfromelbowtoelbow.
Ifyouworkwithanysubseaorpipelinesengineersthey
shouldalsobeabletohelpyou,astheywoulddealwith
substantialsurgeloadsduetolongstraightlengthsofpipe.

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Howtocalculatesurgeforcesonpipingsystems?IntergraphCADWorx&Analysis

Editedbythe_dude(08/15/10 11:52PM)

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Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems? [Re:the_dude]
faiz_mas

Member
Registered:
06/03/10
Posts:12
Loc:Tamil
Nadu

#3757208/20/10 06:06AM

HelloKuramadenz,
Pleaseconfirmwhetherthepressureyouhavestatedisthe
surgepressureorthelinepressure.
UsuallyforamainLNGlinesasurgeanalysiswillbe
studiedduringshutdownoperationinaspecialised
software(eg,Pipenet).Thiswillgivetheriseinpressurein
thelineduringshutdownoperations.Sincethevalvesare
notstopedasuddenthesurgepressurewillnotbethat
high.Sincethelinesizesareveryhighinyourcaseitwill
betooconservativetoconsidertheabsolutepressure
differenceasthesurgepressure.

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Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems? [Re:faiz_mas]
Farhad

#3758608/21/10 02:58AM

Member

HelloThere,

Registered:
04/25/07
Posts:116
Loc:UAE

Forvalveclosureandsurgeanalysis,PIPENETTransient
modulegeneratesForceFile(FRCfile)containinguniaxial
appliedforcesonpipingsystems.CAESARIIcanimport
FRCfilesandgeneratesDynamicinput(WaterHammer)
automatically.
YoumaydothesameanalysisbyusingBOSFluidsand
CAESARII.
Forwaterhammercalculation,refertoCAESARII
applicationguide.
_________________________
Regards,
FarhadSalehi

WhatUgiveUgetback!!!

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Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems? [Re:faiz_mas]

#3759708/22/10 11:01PM

Kuramadenz

HelloFaiMaz,
Member
Registered:
08/13/10
Posts:2

Thesurgepressureisreallythat9.14barg.ActuallyI
havealreadythesurgeanalysisreportfromtheprocess
group.Theyhave7casesofESDofcontrolvalves.I

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Loc:Philippines

chosethecasethatwouldgivemeaconservativeresult,
andthatcaseregisteredapeaksurgepressureof9.14
barg.
Statically,theforcethatwouldbeexpectedateach
nodes,isaround600knformycase,assumingofcourse
thatthepressurerisetimeiszero.Buttheprocesshad
givenmearisetimeof15secondsafterESD.SoIruna
dynamicanalysis,andgetalowloadsonmysupports.
I'mjustnotsureifthisisarightprocedure.
_________________________
Kuramadenz

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Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems? [Re:Kuramadenz]
K.MKIM

#3760108/23/10 12:16AM

Hello

Member

Ifyouhavethesurgeanalysisreportfromprocessgroup
whichcontainsthetimePressuredataateachnodes.First
changethepressureintorisedpressurebyusingP=P0+
DeltaP(Risedpressure)andthenchangetherisedpressure
intoforcebyusingF=PxA.
Finally,runTimehistoryanalysisinCaesarIIwithTime
forcedataat
eachnodes.
Thisismyjustidea

Registered:
11/14/07
Posts:6
Loc:KOREA

Doesanybodyhaveanyideaaboutabove?
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Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems? [Re:Kuramadenz]
DuWei

#5619109/15/13 06:14AM

Member
Registered:
08/22/05
Posts:15
Loc:Shanghai,
P.R.China

IfapplyingthecalcualtedsurgeforcesinCEASARIIby
"staticequivalent",itmightrequiretomultiplytheloadsby
DLFfactor=2?

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Re:Howtocalculatesurgeforceson
pipingsystems? [Re:Kuramadenz]
Farhad

#5620709/17/13 02:07AM

Member

DuWei,

Registered:
04/25/07
Posts:116
Loc:UAE

DLFforaninstantaneouslyappliedconstantload(nota
harmonicorimpactload)isalwaysexactly2.
_________________________
Regards,
FarhadSalehi

WhatUgiveUgetback!!!

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