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On Their Way
Part 2A
Part 2B
Part 2C
Part 2D
Part 2E
Mark 13:32 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the
Father.
The book of Mark has the same wording as Mathew.
Here are the five possibilities of understanding of this scripture with an analysis of that possibility.
1A/ The scriptures have been incorrectly translated in Mathew and Mark.
1B/ Jesus was God and knew the end times before he came to earth, then he forfeited or lost that knowledge
and has never regained that knowledge.
1C/The Trinitarian viewpoint is that God the Father always knew the date of the end times and still does.
God the Son did know the date of the end of times but forfeited, or lost that knowledge prior to coming to
earth. He then regained the knowledge either after the resurection or after his return to heaven.
1D/ Jesus was God while in heaven but at that point he did not know the end of times
1E/ Jesus is not God.
1A/ The scriptures have been incorrectly translated in Mathew and Mark.
Answer: Mathew is supported by the Alexandrian text however the Textus Receptus (Received Text) does not have
nor the son. Mark is supported by, Textus Receptus and the Alexandrian or NU text. From this it seems that the
majority ( 3 out of 4) texts have nor the son in at least one or the other Gospels. Therefore the translations are almost
certainly correct.
1B/ Jesus was God and knew the end times before he came to earth, then he forfeited or lost that knowledge and has
never regained that knowledge.
John 6:58 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also
will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate,
and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever."
Jesus remembered he had come down from heaven.
John 17:4-5 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
Jesus remembered he had been given work to do by God
Jesus rembered he was with God before the world began
God was Jesus' Father before creation, Jesus was the Son before creation.
Jesus remembered all these things that happened before the world began.
John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory
you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
Jesus was loved as Gods son, before the beginning of time.
Jesus was calling God his Father before the creation of the world
Jesus remembered he was loved before the foundation of the world
There are other passages that support the fact that Jesus, while on earth, could remember being with God. The world
was created through Jesus and knew he had glory from God John 17:24 and 1 Peter 1:20.
That he knew and that he forfeited that knowledge is not an option, because as we can see he clearly remembered
being with God before he came to the earth.
There are two in depth studies of what was happening when Jesus Christ was with God before creation
02: Jesus, Born and Created by God before Creation linked here at the end of 2015
02C: Jesus the Son of God Before Creation linked here at the end of 2015
Anwer: While Jesus was on the earth he was able to remember back millions of years and knew that he was alive in
heaven before creation. To say that he forfeited knowledge is not supported by scripture.
1C/The Trinitarian viewpoint is that God the Father always knew the date of the end times and still does. God the Son
did know the date of the end of times but forfeited, or lost that knowledge prior to coming to earth. He then regained
the knowledge either after the resurection or after his return to heaven.
Answer:
The idea that Jesus now has the knowledge of the End Times is shown to be untrue in Part 2 from Acts 3:19-22
1D/ Jesus was God while in heaven but at that point he did not know the end of times.
Answer: We know Jesus was the Son while he was still in heaven, therefore he didnt know the end of times while he
was in heaven. To say Jesus was the Son while in heaven and that he did know the end of times at that point is not
what this scripture says.Therefore while Jesus the Son was in heaven he was not the all knowing God.
Acts 1:6-7 So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the
kingdom to Israel?"
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He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority
Vs7 God the Father set the dates and times, not Jesus.
Vs7 God doesnt need authority, Jesus did and does.
1E/ Jesus is not God.
Answer: Despite protests this is actually what the scripture says.
The only possible answer is option E and that Jesus is not God.
xxxx check against Trinitarian sites add their arguments
Summary:
Mathew 24:36
Mark 13:32
Acts 1:7
Only God the Father knows the end of time, Jesus does not know
Jesus does not know the end of times, but God the Father does
The Father set the end of times by his own authority
Jesus does not know the end of times. To say Jesus is God is to say that the all knowing God doesnt know the end of
times. This is a nonsense, therefore Jesus is not God
This is written several years after Jesus has ascended back to be with God.
Vs20 God will again send Jesus.
Vs20 Jesus the Christ is sent and appointed by God, God is not sent or appointed.
Vs21 Jesus remains in Heaven until God decides to restore everything. Jesus and God, two of them. There is no
getting away from the fact that this sentence say there is Jesus and additionally there is God.
Jesus does one thing, God another
The fact that he must means he has no option, how can this be if Jesus is God? Do we really believe that God must
remain in heaven?
What is God restoring? It is Gods decision, he is doing the restoring
It also means Jesus is actually there, with God, two of them.
Summary:
Acts 3:19-21 Jesus must remain in heaven until God decides otherwise
God decides when to have Jesus, who is in heaven, come to earth. Therefore Jesus is not God who decides himself for
himself.
On Their Way
Part 2A God & Jesus will Return Together:
God and Jesus, two of them, will return together at the end of times.
Daniel 7:13-14 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with
the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.
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He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language
worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one
that will never be destroyed.
I understand there to be three ways this passage can be interpreted.
Daniels vision happened prior to creation.
Vs13 Who approached who? My understanding is Jesus approached God, not God approaching God?
Vs14 Jesus was given authority, glory, and sovereign power by God, every nation will worship Jesus after he was put
in this position by God.
Why, if Jesus is God, would he need to be given authority, glory and sovereign power?
Because Jesus was given these things then obviously there was a time before that he did not have them.
Daniels vision happened between Daniel and Bethlehem.
The same answers apply if this happened before creation or between Daniel and Bethlehem.
Daniels vision is about the end of times
Vs13 Jesus will come at judgment day in the clouds and was in Gods presence
God does not come with God if he is God, otherwise we would have two Gods.
My view is that this is a prophecy of the end of times, although I have doubts.
Mathew 26:64 But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the
Mighty One (G1411) and coming on the clouds of heaven."
G1411/Dynamis: Miraculous power, strength, mighty
Who is the Mighty One at Jesus left? It is the God who Jesus is returning with shown from these OT passages.
Joshua 22:22 "The Mighty One, God, the LORD! The Mighty One, God, the LORD! He knows! And
let Israel know! If this has been in rebellion or disobedience to the LORD, do not spare us this day.
Psalm 50:1 The Mighty One, God, the LORD, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun
to the place where it sets.
If Jesus is at the right and God is at the left then they are next to each other and with each other. Two of them.
They are both coming together at the end of times, God and Jesus coming on heavenly clouds. Unless you have
another viewpoint?
Mark 14:61-62 Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62
"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming
on the clouds of heaven."
Jesus says, 1/ I am the son. 2/ I will be sitting at the right hand of God. 3/ I am coming with God
Can Jesus be sitting at the right hand of God and also be God? Is God at the right hand of God?
Can Jesus be coming with God and be God? Is God coming with God? Will there be two Gods?
Here Jesus states that in the future he will come with God in the clouds of heaven, two of them.
1 Thessalonians 3:13 May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of
our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
God and Jesus judgment day. We will be in the presence of God when Jesus comes.
How can Jesus be God and God be God, this scripture would not make sense.
His holy ones could be angels or people or both.
Summary:
Daniel 7:13-14
Mathew 26:64
Mark 14:61-62
1 Thess 3:13
Vs69 Jesus next to God. God is not next to God otherwise there would be two Gods.
Acts 1:11 Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has
been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
Jesus was taken up on a cloud by Gods power and he will return by Gods power.
Summary:
Mathew 26:64
Mark 13:26
Luke 21:27
Acts 1:11
Jesus is returning with or by Gods power, Jesus cannot be God if he relies on another for power.
Jesus will confess our names before God and the angels
Angels are coming with the Father's glory and the Son of Man
Angels are coming with God and Jesus at the end of time
Revelation says that the angels are God's angels, not Jesus' angels
If this is Judgment Day then God, by His power, will raise us from the dead.
God raised the Lord Jesus from the dead, God will also raise us from the dead with Jesus
Through Jesus we believe in God. God who raised Jesus from the dead.
It is interesting that God G1453 Jesus and he G1453 and G1825 people.
Does God raise God? Does God raise us from the dead in the same way he raised God from the dead?
How can Jesus be included with us in this scripture and also be God?
Jesus did not raise himself from the dead, God had to do it for him. Jesus was dead, God cannot be dead.
God raised Jesus, God did not raise God.
Philippians 3:20-21 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord
Jesus Christ, 21who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our
lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body
Vs20 Jesus the savior.
Vs21 A power enables Jesus to bring everything under his control.
The power is from God Acts 10:38. What if Jesus had no power?
Jesus will transform our bodies to be like his, I am assuming a heavenly body
We will have a body like Christ, but not necessarily like God's.
Summary:
John 6:40
Jesus will raise people up on the last day
John 6:44
Jesus raises people up on the last day
John 12:30
After Jesus went to heaven he also drew men to himself
Philippians 3:20-21 A power enables Jesus to bring everything under his control.
Jesus will transform our bodies to be like his, I am assuming a heavenly body
Jesus will raise the dead on the last day by the power given to him by God.
If Jesus needs to be enabled by a power, then he isnt God because God doesnt need enabling.
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and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the deadJesus, who rescues us from the coming
wrath.
Serve God and wait for his Son,
We are waiting for His Son from heaven, Jesus is still Gods Son in heaven.
Jesus saves us from Gods wrath. He intercedes.
Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the
book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
Jesus will acknowledge us before his Father.
Summary:
Colossians 3:6 Gods wrath is coming because of our sins, not Jesus wrath.
Romans 5:9 We are saved from Gods wrath through Jesus. we are reconciled to God through Jesus, God's Son
2 Thess 1:9-10 Jesus saves us from Gods wrath. He intercedes.
Rev 3:5
Jesus will acknowledge us before his Father.
So we have two things:
Firstly we have God's wrath.
Secondly we have Jesus rescuing us from that wrath.
Jesus will rescue us from Gods wrath. Jesus does not bring the wrath.
God does not rescue us from His own wrath.
We are not reconciled to God by the death of God.
That Jesus rescues us from God's wrath, reconciles us to God, acknowledges us before God, intercedes and mediates
with God, all show that Jesus is not God.
There is an in depth study at See Section 31 Jesus intercedes and mediates linked here 2016
Summary:
1 Cor 15:24 If Jesus is God he would not give the kingdom back to God at the end of times.
Vs25 God is not given the responsibilities to reign
Vs25 If Jesus is God he doesnt need God to put all his enemies under his feet
Vs27 God put all things, except Himself, under Jesus. This is while they are both in heaven, their positions could not
be switched. God is in does the placement of all things, Non God recieves.
Vs28 Here we have all powerful God and Jesus who is not all powerful but is in subjection to God. After Judgment
Day, Jesus will be made subject to God. "Made" and "subject" are not words that could be directed at an all powerful
God.
For this clarification from Paul, and the numerous reasons listed here, Jesus is definitely not God.
Other
Part 6 Jesus original earthly body still exists:
Jesus original body
Acts 13:32-34 What God promised our fathers
33
he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: " 'You are my
Son; today I have become your Father.
34
The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
God raised Jesus, stated twice.
never to decay might be talking about his physical body or his spiritual body
Acts 13:37 For when David had served God's purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with
his fathers and his body decayed.
37
But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.
Jesus body did not see decay. Therefore his body still exists.
Summary:
Acts 13:32-34 never to decay might be talking about his physical body or his spiritual body
Acts 13:37 Jesus body did not see decay. Therefore his body still exists
I am not completely convinced that these two passages are specifically referring to Jesus's physical body.
If they are, God has kept Jesus body for some reason. Jesus also has a new body in heaven
Summary
Part 1A
Mathew 24:36 Only the Father knows the end of time, Jesus does not know
Mark 13:32 Jesus does not know the end of times, but God does
Acts 1:7 The Father set the end of times by his own authority
Jesus does not know the end of times. To say Jesus is God is to say that the all knowing God
doesnt know the end of times. This is a nonsense, therefore Jesus is not God
Part 1B
Acts 3:19-21 Jesus must remain in heaven until God decides otherwise
God decides when to have Jesus, who is in heaven come to earth. Therefore Jesus is not God who
decides himself for himself.
Part 2A
Daniel 7:13-14 Daniel's prophecy of Jesus coming with God at the end of times
Mathew 26:64 In the future God and Jesus will come together in the clouds of heaven
Mark 14:61-62 In the future Jesus will come with God from heaven
1 Thess 3:13 In the presence of God with Jesus and the holy ones.
Jesus is returning with God, therefore Jesus is not God!
Part 2B
Mathew 26:64 At the right hand of Power, Jesus is at the right hand of God.
Mark 13:26 Jesus is coming at the end of times with great power
Luke 21:27 Jesus is coming at the end of times with great power
Acts 1:11 Jesus was taken up on a cloud by Gods power and he will return by Gods power.
Jesus is returning with or by Gods power, Jesus cannot be God if he relies on another for power.
Part 2C
Hebrews 9:28 Christ will appear a second time
Either God already appeared numerous times in the OT which means Jesus who has appeared once
is not God Or God has never been seen which also means Jesus is not God
Part 2D
Revelation 3:5 Jesus will confess our names before God and the angels
Mark 8:38 Angels are coming with the Father's glory and the Son of Man
Angels are coming with God and Jesus at the end of time
Revelation says that the angels are God's angels, not Jesus' angels
Part 2E
Colossians 3:3-4 Christ will appear and we will appear, all in glory.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 God will bring Jesus and God will bring people
How can Jesus be God if God is bringing Jesus?
Part 3A
1 Cor 6:14 If this is Judgment Day then God, by His power, will raise us from the dead.
2 Corinthians 4:14 God raised the Lord Jesus from the dead, God will also raise us from the dead
with Jesus
1 Peter 1:21 Through Jesus we believe in God. God who raised Jesus from the dead.
It is interesting that God G1453 Jesus and he G1453 and G1825 people.
Does God raise God? Does God raise us from the dead in the same way he raised God from the
dead?
How can Jesus be included with us in this scripture and also be God?
Jesus did not raise himself from the dead, God had to do it for him. Jesus was dead, God cannot be
dead. God raised Jesus, God did not raise God.
Part 3B
John 6:40 Jesus will raise people up on the last day
John 6:44 Jesus raises people up on the last day
John 12:30 After Jesus went to heaven he also drew men to himself
Philippians 3:20-21 A power enables Jesus to bring everything under his control.
Jesus will transform our bodies to be like his, I am assuming a heavenly body
Jesus will raise the dead on the last day by the power given to him by God.
If Jesus needs to be enabled by a power, then he isnt God because God doesnt need enabling.
Part 3C 1 Thess 4:15 The dead disciples will raise up before living disciples at the end of time, although it
could be aruged we will all be raised together.
Part 4 Colossians 3:6 Gods wrath is coming because of our sins, not Jesus wrath.
Romans 5:9 We will be saved from Gods wrath through Jesus. we are reconciled to God through
Jesus, God's Son
2 Thess 1:9-10 Jesus saves us from Gods wrath. He intercedes.
Rev 3:5 Jesus will acknowledge us before his Father.
So we have two things:
Firstly we have God's wrath.
Secondly we have Jesus rescuing us from that wrath.
Jesus will rescue us from Gods wrath. Jesus does not bring the wrath.
God does not rescue us from His own wrath.
We are not reconciled to God by the death of God.
That Jesus rescues us from God's wrath, reconciles us to God, acknowledges us before God,
intercedes and mediates with God, all show that Jesus is not God.
Part 5A 1 Cor 15:24 If Jesus is God he would not give the kingdom back to God at the end of times.
Vs25 God is not given the responsibilities to reign
Vs25 If Jesus is God he doesnt need God to put all his enemies under his feet
Vs27 God put all things, except Himself, under Jesus. This is while they are both in heaven, their
positions could not be switched. God is in does the placement of all things, Non God recieves.
Vs28 Here we have all powerful God and Jesus who is not all powerful but is in subjection to God.
After Judgment Day, Jesus will be made subject to God. "Made" and "subject" are not words that
could be directed at an all powerful God.
For this clarification from Paul, and the numerous reasons listed here, Jesus is definitely not God.
Part 5B Luke 20-35-36 Disciples will become like angels
Part 6 Acts 13:32-34 never to decay might be talking about his physical body or his spiritual body
Acts 13:37 Jesus body did not see decay. Therefore his body still exists
I am not completely convinced that these two passages are specifically referring to Jesus's physical
body. If they are, God has kept Jesus body for some reason. Jesus also has a new body in heaven
Of the fourteen parts in this section, nearly all of them on their own merit show that Jesus is not God.
Combined, the evidence is overwhelming
Scripture List
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Joshua 22:22 The mighty one, God, the LORD
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Daniel 7:13-14 The son of man approaches the ancient of days
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Psalm 50:1 The Mighty One, God, the LORD
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Mathew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Mathew 26:64 you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One
Mark 8:38 Son of Man will be ashamed of him when comes in Father's glory with the holy angels
Mark 13:26 men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
Mark 13:32 not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Mark 14:61-62 you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One coming
Luke 20:36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children,
Luke 21:27 they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
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Luke 22:69
John 6:40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him
John 12:30-32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."
Acts 1:6-7 It is not for you to know the times set by the Father
Acts 1:11 Jesus, . will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
Acts 3:19-21 He (Jesus) must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything
Acts 13:32-34 The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
Acts 13:37 But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.
Romans 5:9 how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
1 Corinthians 6:14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.
1 Cor 15:24-28 Then the end will come, when he Jesus hands over the kingdom to God the Father
when it says everything has been put under him Jesus, it is clear this does not include God
2 Corinthians 4:14 the one who raised Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and
Philippians 3:20-21 Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under control
Colossians 3:3-4 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
Colossians 3:6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.
1 Thessalonians 3:13 presence of God and Father when Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones
1 Thessalonians 4:14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again so we believe that God will bring
1 Thessalonians 4:15 to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive,
2 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the deadJesus,
Hebrews 9:28
1 Peter 1:21 God, raised him from the dead and glorified him, so your faith and hope are in God
Revelation 3:5 I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name