S.

241Anactrelatingtopersonalpossessionandcultivationofcannabisandthe
regulationofcommercialcannabisestablishments
MajorGlennHall,Commander,BureauofCriminalInvestigations,DepartmentofPublic
Safety:WhenaskedaboutdruguseinVermontaboutwhatdrugtaskforceiscrackingdownon,
herepliedmostlyontraffickersofheroinandcrackcocaine.Hesaidthequantitiesofheroinare
substantial.HesaidthatthereisasignificantprobleminVermontwithtraffickingandgang
membersfromoutofstatecomingtoVermonttopickupheroin.Searsaskedifdrugdealerswho
haveheroinfrequentlyhavemarijuana,andHallsreplywasyes,thatitisusuallythecase.But
theirpriorityisnottogoaftermarijuanadealers,butthosewhodealheroinorcrackcocaine
becausethatismostprevalent.Hesaysmostallheroinaddicts/dealershestalkedtohavestarted
theirdrugusewithmarijuana.Thebulkofthemarijuanacultivationarrestsaredonebythestate
police,notthedrugtaskforce.
SearsaskedthatifVermontweretoallowhomegrownmarijuana,woulditbeproblematic.The
responsewasyes,Hallbelievesitwouldbeproblematicbecauseitwouldbeverydifficultto
regulate.Hesaystheaccesstokidswouldbeincreased,whichishismainconcern.
Searsaskedifmorecriminalpenaltiesforsomeoneunder18possessingmarijuanawouldbe
difficulttoenforce,andtheanswerwasyesbecauseitisalreadydifficulttogetpeoplewhoare
sellingtoteenagers,whicharenoteasycasestodo.
Searsaskedifmarijuanaweretobelegalizedornot,wouldthemainpriorityofthedrugtask
forcestillremainheroinorcrackcocaine,andtheresponsewasalsoyes.
Benningaskedifhomegrownwerelegal,woulditbeeasiertoenforceplantnumberlimitationor
plantsizelimitation.Theresponsewasthathedoesntknowifoneiseasierthantheother,Hall
believesthatbotharehardtoregulateandbothwouldbeproblematic.
Asheaskedabouthowoftenthestatepolicereceivescallsaboutgrowingmarijuana,andHall
repliedthatthereportsareinfrequent.Theygetcallsaboutmarijuanagrowinginforestsor
fields,sotheydontreallyknowwhoitbelongsto.

Lt.RegTrayah,StationCommander,Shaftsbury,ClandestineLabCommander,VermontState
Police:
Trayahstartedtalkingouttalkingaboutmarijuanaconcentrates,whicharemadefrom
Butanetoextractoilsfrommarijuana,whichisadangerousprocess.Theprocessisstuffinga
plastictubefullofmarijuanaleavesandstemswithacoffeefilterontheend,andpourbutaneon
tothemarijuana.Thisbreaksdownpartsoftheplantandleavetheoils,withalmost90%or
greaterTHCconcentration.Trayahsaysstreetvalueofdabnowis3060dollars.Butthe
processisdangerousbecausethebutanehoneyoilextractisflammable.
Thoseconcentratesarecalleddabsordrops.Oneofthoseisconsideredonehit.There
arenoadditionalpenaltiestopossession,butthedrughasamuchhigherconcentrationofTHC

sotheeffectsaredifferent.Searsaskedifitwouldbehelpfultohavepermanentstatuteon
dabs,andTrayahrepliedthatitwouldbetohavethat.
MichelleChildsaskedthatifretailfacilitieshadbansonsellingdabs,howwouldthe
possessionofconcentratespenaltieschangeiftheyarentverydevelopednow.Hesaysthething
tobeaddressedwouldbetheprocessofextractionandhowtopreventtheprocessofmaking
dabs.
AsheaskedabouthowprevalenttheactivityofmakingconcentratesisinVermont,and
howoften:HallsaidsixseparateincidentsinVermontwheretheyveactuallyfoundpeople
makingthem,buthecantspeaktohowmanypeopleareusing.Hesaiditisdifficulttosayon
thenumberofpeoplemakingitonalargescaleandhowmanypeopleareusing.
Thesubstanceonthebutanehoneyoilextract(BHO)causeslotsofexplosions,sothe
extractionprocessisverydangerous.

KeithFlynn,Commissioner,DepartmentofPublicSafety:
Searsaskedaboutwhatwouldthedepartmentofpublicsafetywouldhavetodealwith
withthelegalization,andFlynnsresponsewasthatitdependsonthespanseofthelegalization.
Searsaskedaboutincidentsofdrivingundertheinfluence,andFlynnsaidthatthere
were5doublefatalitieslastyearfromalcohol,16singlefatalitieswheremostwereunbeltedwith
alcoholinvolved,10fatalitiesofdrivingundertheinfluenceofdrugs.Eightofthosewerelinked
tothedriverhavingcannabisinthecar.EarlierintheweektherewasacarcrashinNewport,
wherethecauseofthecrashwasadriverhavinganacutecocaineoverdose.
Flynnsaidthatthecocaineandheroinuseistyingupalltheresourcesthattheyhave.The
mainfocusofthestatepoliceisoncocaineandheroin.Butlastyear,thereweremorecasesof
fatalitieswhiledrivingundertheuseofmarijuanathanalcoholwhichmeansthatthedriving
lawsandpenaltiespartofthebill,ifitwerepassed,wouldhavetobeverydeveloped.
SearsaskedaboutwhyhavewenothadeverypoliceofficerbecertifiedasDREofficers
sincetheopiateprobleminourstateissolargescale,andFlynnrespondedthatthetrainingto
becomeaDREisverydemandingandthatnoteverypoliceofficerhastimetodoit.Hesaidthat
noteverydepartmentinthestatecanaffordtosendeveryofficertoa1012weektraining.He
wishesthatthestatecoulddothat,butlogisticallyhedoesntbelieveitwouldwork.
Flynnsaidthatthebiggestchallengeforlawenforcementisthatpeopledrivingunderthe
influenceofdrugsandalcohol.
Flynnsaidthatthetherapeuticmarijuanaprogramisworkingverywell.Approx2,400
peopleenrolledintheproblemrightnow.HebelievesColoradodidntkeepupwithupdatingthe
therapeuticmarijuanaprogramwhentheylegalizedmarijuana.HebelievesthatifVermontwere
tolegalize,thenthetherapeuticproblem,wouldneedtobekepttightlyrun.
FlynnsgoalwouldbefiftyDREsinthefutureifmarijuanawouldtobelegalized,butit
ishardtopredictwhattheywillneedbecausetheycantpredicttheoutofstatemarketandhow
manyofficerswouldactuallybeneeded.

Flynnsaysthattheamountofheroininthestatehashadasubstantialeffectonwhat
policinglookslikeinVermont.
AsheaskedwhatitmeanstohavetennewDREs,doesitmeantennewFTEsorten
newstatepoliceofficerswhoaretrainedinDREfunctions.
Flynnsaidthatifthebillshouldpass,therewouldbeanincreasedburdenonthelabdue
totestingcapacity.Theydonothavethecapacitytotestabloodsampleforwhatthequantityof
thedrugis,theycanonlytestifthethebloodsamplecontainsdrugs.Thebloodsamplehastobe
senttoanotherlaboutofstateinPennsylvaniatotestforquantity
Flynnbelievesthatalargepartoftherevenuegeneratedfromthelegalizationifitwereto
happenthatitshouldbedevotedtoeducationandprevention,Searscommentedthathebelieves
thattherevenueshouldalsogotowardspoliceresourcesthatareneeded.Flynnsaysthatthe
policetroopersdonothavelotsofresourcestodealwithallreportstheyreceive,theyhaveto
decidewhatisthemostimportanttopublicsafetytodealwith.
Flynnsaysthatifthe10x10footgrowareawouldbeimpossibletoenforce,andthatthey
simplywouldnthavetheresourcestodoso.
FlynnsaidthatwhenhevisitedtheColoradomaingrowingareaanddispensariesthey
visitedwereallrunveryprofessionallyandallconductedthemselveslikebusinesses.Hesaid
somethingsworkedwell,andsomethingsdidnt,forexamplepublicuse.Hesaysthe
MontpeliermedicaldispensariesaremuchsmallerthaninColorado.

S.95Anactrelatingtoregulationandtaxationofmarijuana

S.241Anactrelatingtopersonalpossessionandcultivationof
cannabisandtheregulationofcommercialcannabisestablishments:

SalPace,CountyCommissioner,PuebloCounty,ColoradoviaPhone(hewaskindofhardto
understandoverthephonesoIdidthebestIcould):
Hesaidoncerecreationalwaslegalized,thatshopspoppedupalloverstateliterally
overnight.Theybroughtupbillrightafteronregulation,advertising,andbufferzonesalmost
immediately.Butheendedupvotingagainstthebill,butinhindsighthebelievesthatthehighly
regulatedenvironmentisagoodthing.Thelegislaturegavealllicensing,authority,managing
andgrowthtothelocalbusinessoncethebillwaspassedforrecreationalmarijuana.
HesaidhistownofPueblohasanunlimitednumberofcultivationsandplacesthat
manufactureedibleproducts.
PueblocountyisstillthecultivationcountyofColorado.
Pacesaysthattheevidencedoesntshowthatpeopleareusingitasagatewaydrug,or
thatusebyteenagersisincreased.Hesaysthatthecultivationofcannabishascreatedan

economicboomwithinthecommunity.Hebelievesthatahighlyregulatedenvironmentiswhat
isthebestwhenitcomestolegalizingmarijuanaforrecreationaluse.
Hesaysthattheyareabletotrackwherethemarijuanagoesuntilaconsumerpurchases
themarijuana,andifabatchneedstoberecalledthantheyareabletodoit.Theyalsodo
microbialtestingafterthecropisharvestedandbeforeitgoestomarket.
Searsaskedaboutfinancialissuesaskingifmostoftherevenueisincash,andPacesaid
yes.TherearenotalotofbanksinColoradowhowilldomuchwithmoneymadefromcannabis
businesses.Themonthlypaymentsandsalestaxesusuallyarepaidincash,hetoldSears.Hesaid
thatfortaxes,$50,000isanumberthatispaidintaxesfordispensaries.
AsheaskedifmarijuanaisacommontopicofconversationamongColoradocitizens
daily,andPacerespondedthatitishardforhimtoanswerthat,becauseheistheselfdecribed
faceofmarijuanalegalizationinColorado.