DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT IN AND FOR ESCAMBIA COUNTY, FLORIDA STATE OF FLORIDA, Plaintifé, vs. CASE NOs: 1707CF003278 DIVISION: C ROBERT A, SUMNER, Defendant. DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN Taken on Behalf of the Plaintiff DATE TAKEN: May 21st, 2008 TIME: 1:30 p.m. - 2:15 p.m. PLACE: Anchor Court Reporting 229 South Baylen Street Pensacola, Florida 32502 Examination of the Witness reported by: Pamela Dee Elliott, Florida Professional Reporter Notary Public, State of Florida v7 COE Anchor Court Reporting 229 South Baylen Street Pensacola, Florida 32502 AnchorReporters@aol.comDEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 2 | | 1 APPEARANCES | 2 FOR THE PLAINTIF 3 RUSSELL G. EDGAR, ESQUIRE | 4 Assistant State Attorney | M.C. Blanchard Judicial Building 5 Pensacola, Florida 32502 6 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 1 JOHN C. BEROSET, ESQUIRE 8 Beroset and Keene 1622 North 9th Avenue io Pensacola, Florida 32503 10 ! 11 COURT REPORTER: 12 PAMELA DEB ELLIOTT, FPR ANCHOR COURT REPORTING 13 229 South Baylen Street | Pensacola, Florida 32502 14 (850) 432-2511 | 1-800-563-6409 1s FAX: (850) 432-2302 www.anchorreporters.com | 16 AnchorReporters@aol.com10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 | a WITNESS: | DAVID ALLEN Direct Examination by Mr. Bdgar..........05 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS INDEX | No DESCRIPTION PAGE NO. +e A ENONE HA REE | DEFENDANT'S EXHIBITS INDEX No. DESCRIPTION So ANONER HAR AnchorReporters@aol.com10 al 12 22 23 24 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 STIPULATION It is stipulated and agreed by Counsel for the parties that the deposition is taken for the purpose of discovery and/or evidence; that all objections save as to the form of the question are reserved to the time of trial; and that the reading and signing of the deposition are waived, together with notice of the original hereof. AnchorReporters@aol.com10 ul 12 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 Whereupon, the Witness, DAVID ALLEN, having been first duly sworn by the Court Reporter, testified on his oath as follows: THE WITNESS: I do. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. EDGAR: Q. I'm Mr. Edgar and you are who? ine David Allen. Q. Captain? A. Captain David Allen. Q. I'm going to ask you some questions because you've been listed by the defendants as a witness that they intend to call at trial. A. Yes, sir. Q. And if you don't understand my question, just ask me to clarify. And if you can't hear my question, if I am writing and looking away, ask me please to repeat it and speak up louder. Okay? A. Okay. Q. Your occupation? A. Fire Captain, City of Pensacola. Q. How long have you been with the City? A. Almost 20 years. AnchorReporters@aol.com10 11 12 13 14 15 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 6 Q. Where is your office? A. 475 East Strong Street. Q. Is that the Number One Station? A. It is. Q. And you know the defendant? AL I do. Q. And what relation is he to you at work; are you his supervisor or are you -- A. No. He is a captain two and I ama capt two. Q. But he's the union president? A. He is the union president. Q. Are you in the union? A. I am in the union. Q. Are you a union officer? AL No, just a member. Q. Okay. Have you ever been his supervisor or has he ever been your supervisor? A. Maybe 15 years ago for one day, possibly, when he was acting as a supervisor. His rank has never been more than me, but because he has a little bit more time in the department than me, when someone of greater rank is off, then the next person moves up to act. So maybe one or two shifts out of 20 years. AnchorReporters@aol.com10 4. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 7 Q. What are your hours typically as an officer? A. Mine are 8:00 to 5:00 Monday through f in the office. But Friday, because I am on sta typical firefighter hours are 24 hours on and 48 hours off. Q. Okay. How long has he been staff or is he staff? A. He is not staff. Q. He's not staff? A. He's on fire suppression. He's on a truck, which I was until last Friday. Q. Why are you not on a truck now? A. Because I just got moved positions, changed positions. Q. Okay. A. The Chief brought me into the off Q. So he has always been, quote, "on a truck," so to speak? A. On a truck. And I've been on -- I have had an engine company at Station Two and he has an engine company at Station Four. He works on a different day because he works on B Shift and I worked on C Shift. Q. That just rotated, though? AnchorReporters@aol.com10 12 13 14 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 B A. A, B and C, 24 hours on/48 hours off. Whichever shift is on is 24. Q. So during a month, it would be A, then 3, then C or however? A. Exactly. Q. Okay. A. There's never any holidays or never any weekends. It's always every third day 24 hours on/48 hours off. Q. Did you know that he was working as a contractor while he worked at the Fire Department? A. Oh, yeah. Q. And do others do that, too? A Absolutely, many. I could probably name four. Q. And do you work another job? A. I have, but right now because I've moved onto staff, I work 8:00 to 5:00, Monday through Friday. It's not conducive. So now I just work as an adjunct instructor at Pensacola Junior College. Q. Do you have to obtain approval for off-duty employment? A. No, but you have to document your off-duty employment. AnchorReporters@aol.comDEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 Q. What does that mean? A. They just keep a record, just like they do your address, of where you live. The have to be aware of what you do. Q. What is the purpose of that? A. I do not know other than just documentation. We do have rules in a rule book about, like, elicit type activities. And, you know, if you run for political office, things like that, there are rules. I don’t know exactly. But as far as just part-time employment, I'm an RN, a registered nurse, in addi ion to being a Fire Captain. I'm also a paramedic and for ten years, I drove an ambulance while I was employed with the City and things like that. So I. just had to make them aware that when I wasn't at the Fire Station, I worked at Escambia County EMS. Q. Do these rules -- do these rules get changed from time-to-time or are they pretty much the same? A. Not that I know that they've ever been changed. Q. What are they called? ae It's just an outside employment form. AnchorReporters@aol.com10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 Q. Now, is it in your manual? A. As a matter of fact, the City Employee Services Manual has appendices, and I don't remember which one it is. That is just a form, a page form, that just simply states that I'm employed here when I'm not at the Fire Station. a. And when you're working at the Fire Station, you're supposed to be working; right A. Absolutely. Q. Can you work a second job while you're working at the Fire Station; do they allow you to do that, to carry on business? A. Well, I mean, I don't follow the question. Q. Well, can he be a contractor and have customers come in, subs come in and go over contracts? A. Oh, absolutely. You can have visitors at the Fire Station and the visitors don't have to be family members. The visitors can be anyone that you care to have as visitors, as long as you are not actively fighting fires or on a call rescue. Q. Okay. AnchorReporters@aol.com10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 11 A. We have visitors come by for all type of things. If I have somebody change the windshield in my car at my employment, they will come and see me at the Fire Station and do it right there in the Fire Department parking lot. Q. $0 you could run another job sitting in the station while you're being paid as a firefighter? Absolutely, absolutely. Q. So you are not paid full time? AL We are paid full time. But the entire time you're there, you're not on duty. I don't know how the people in this building go to lunch, if on their lunch hour they can take care of personal business. But at the Fire Station, you don't have a lunch hour. You're on call 24 hours continuous. So, therefore, if I have to take care of something while I'm there, as long as it doesn't interfere with my duties, then I can use the phone. Like, that's considered part time. I guess I am trying to clarify. Q. Well, the 24 hours, part of that is considered to be free time? A. Free time. AnchorReporters@aol.com10 11 12 13 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 12 Q. What, lunch, dinner, breakfast, that sort of thing? A. When you're not on a call and not assigned to training. Q. So if you work 24 hours, how many lunches do you get -- lunch hours do you get; three? A. They're not hours. Q. I mean, three lunch breaks? A. You are putting a time frame on it. It's not hours. I sleep at night, too, if I don't have acall. If I have a call, I don't sleep. Q. I misspoke myself. So if you're there 24 hours, do you get three meal breaks? A. I get more breaks on days I don't have calls and training than on days I do have calls and training. Q. If you don't have a call, could you spend 20 hours out of the 24 working on your part-time job? A. I could detail cars the entire 24 hours if I wanted to, if I never had a call. And as long as I responded to the call and it didn't af form, then yes, theoretically, I could detail AnchorReporters@aol.com ct my job performance in any way, shape or13 14 15 16 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 13 cars. I could bring in my car one day and do it "s and and the next day I could bring in my wif the next day I could bring in my neighbor's. Q. How about your coworkers’ cars, could your you do that, too? Could you det coworkers! cars or the people that worked under you, your subordinates? A Absolutely, absolutely. Q. Okay. A. My time is mine, as long as it doesn't inhibit me. I can't leave the property. I can't leave the apparatus that I am going to respond, but I'm free to do anything that doesn't inhibit me from doing my job when I'm not being assigned to something else. Q. Do you perceive that there could be some problem in doing work, having contracts to do work with co-employees that work under you? A. I can't answer that question, because I've never had that happen. Q. You've never been in the mili obviously? A. I've been in the military. I was ia the Air Force. ° Well, in the Air Force, they had a AnchorReporters@aol.com12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 14 regulation called 3030 and it prohibited contractual relationships between people of a lower rank with a person of a higher rank. It was against regulations. You don't remember that? A Well, I'm sure that the City of Pensacola has some type of documentation that says that you can't behold (sic) to a supervisor in some way. I don't know of it personally. a. You're not aware of it, though? A. All companies have those type of documentation, but, I mean, I personally have never been beholding to anyone, therefore, I can't speak for it. Q. You don't know if there is such a regulation, but you suspect there might? I would assume that there's something. Q. Doing business with co-workers or people subordinate. to you? A. Subordinates; not co-workers, but subordinates, I would think. I would have to research it. Q. All right. A. It's public record. You're welcome to look at it. It's in the Employee Services AnchorReporters@aol.com “|18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 15 Manual. I'm sure the City has it on their website. Q. Did you do business with the defendant in this case at all contracting business of any kind? A. No. He has assisted me in the past with projects like remodel projects, but on a friendship basis. Q. Did you pay him? AY No. Q. Does he owe you any money? A. No. Q. Do you owe him any money? A. No. Q. Were you aware that he was arrested for contracting without a license several years ago? A. "Several" meaning like in 2002? QO. Yeah. A. Yes. Q. okay. Was there any adverse action taken against him at work because of his arrest -- off-duty arrest? A. Not that I'm aware of. Q. Okay. Is there normally? Would that AnchorReporters@aol.com10 il 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 16 be expected, if you got an arrest off duty that you would have some adverse action taken, like a letter of counseling or a reprimand or a suspension? A. The thing about it is, is that's an employee's personal (sic) file and I wouldn't be privy to that information. So many times, you would assume something and then it may or may not be true. There's a rumor that goes through the Fire Department about someone wrecked a fire truck and may have gotten a letter of counseling. But unless you're sitting in the Chief's office and you were there, it would just be speculation. Q. Let me rephrase my question. It's not so much whether you know if he did, but if it is the practice or even the requirement that a person have some adverse action taken against him at work being a fireman, if they are violating State statutes and get arrested? A. I do know -~ only based on experience not because of documentation, I do know that individuals that were not convicted but were arrested, no action was taken until the conviction, meaning that it's impossible in the State Florida to hold a Florida Firefighter's AnchorReporters@aol.com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 Certificate if you have a felony conviction. For instance, a DUI, we have people that have had a DUI that have come to work. If they are not required to drive and it happened o duty, there was no documentation that I'm aware of in the Fire Department. Now, how they handled that in the civil or criminal court, I don't know, put I know that it didn't adversely affect their fire position in the Pensacola Fire Department. Does that answer your question? Q. Thank you. You said you were in the Air Force. You are familiar then if a person gets arrested o £ duty, that they can open up an Unfavorable Information File and usually do a result of a civilian arrest; are you familiar with that? A. I am. Q. There is nothing comparable in the Fire Department? A. No. Without a conviction, then your personal business is your personal business. Q. What is a conviction for purposes of the regulations and rules in the Fire Department with the City of Pensacola; is that a determination of guilt or an adjudication of guilt AnchorReporters@aol.com10 ut 12 18 19 20 24 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 18 or do you know? A. I don't know. But if a person -~ they have to have a felony conviction in order to effect their ability to obtain and maintain a license. Q. Okay. A. If you have a valid Florida driver's license and a valid certificate of compliance, which is the certificate to practice firefighting, then you can show up to work. Q. So you could have any number of misdemeanor convictions and it wouldn't matter? A. I believe so. I don't know the answer to that. But yes, if it's personal and you are handling it personally and you've satisfied them with the court, whether you paid a fine or whatever it is, then yes, it woulda't inhibit your ability to be promoted or something like that. Q. Now, in the case of Mr. Sumner, are you aware that he had, apparently, entered into contracts to build houses for other firemen? A. Oh, yes, absolutely. Q. Are you aware that there were problems in at least one or two of those cases? A. Problems is a broad term. AnchorReporters@aol.com16 17 18 19 20 24 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 19 Q. How about being sued; how he was sued by a fellow fireman for not -- A. Well, it was settled. Q. Are you aware that he was sued? A. Yes, he told me he was sued, absolutely. It was settled. . Okay. A. The fellow fireman you are speaking of actually drove for me up until last Friday. Q. And who was that? aA. Jose Cobbs. Q. What's his reputation in the Department for telling the truth? A. I'm sorry; what? Q. What's his reputation among the people in the Department for telling the truth; is he known as a truthful person? A. Yes, hi is a very truthful person. rences Q. Were you awere of their di that resulted in this lawsuit being filed? A. Specifics? Q. Yes. A. No, not at all. Qo. Have you ever talked to the defendant about it? AnchorReporters@aol.com10 11 12 14 15 16 18 19 20 au 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 20 A. No, no. Other than what you just said, just that it exists. Q. Okay. A. I do not specifically know what the difference was. Q. Okay. A. I don't even know why the suit. Q. Now, do you know anything about the circumstances of his arrest years ago for contracting with out a license? A. No, I do not. Q. Okay. A. All I know is that it is public record that he, apparently, was -- had a license suspension or something. And that's about the extent of my knowledge. Q. Do you know anything about his contracts with the Kanziggs, Mr. and Mrs. Kanzigg? AL I don't know that name. Q. Or Oulette (phonetic)? A. Who? Q. Oulette (phonetic), he's a postal employee. A. I don't know that name. Q. Or the Heyes, Pat or Bridget Heye? AnchorReporters@acl.comaL 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 21 A, Pat and Bridget Heye I know very well. They are my neighbors. Q. And what do you know about that, that particular disagreement that they had? I know that's a broad term. But they were sued by Mr. Sumner; are you familiar with that? A. I am. Q. Okay. Tell me what you know about Oh, goodness. Let me just preface what I'm going to say with this: In that they met Bob Sumner when I introduced them to-Bob Sumner. Q. why did you introduce them; was it just a social thing or what? A. Because they were on my property, Bridget Heye. I was in the process of building a house on my property two lots over from their property. And 1i e many times happens in a neighborhood, they came over regularly, almost daily. Bridget would come over almost daily. Her husband would be out of town flying for Delta and she would come over almost daily saying, "I see you've got the land cleared." And then we would move to the next stage. And actually the very first time I AnchorReporters@aol.com10 a1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 22 ever met Bridget, she told me, she says, "So are you all intending to build?" Because I was clearing the property. And I said, "Oh, yeah, absolutely." And she said, "Well, when are you planning on building?" And I said, "Well, as soon as we get the property cleared we're going to start building." She said, "We're going to be puilding, also." And I found out later that they had been there about a year at that time, a year to a year and a half. She said, "We were planning on already being started but we -- so it looks like you are going to be in your house before we're going to get in ours." And she said it with like a little regret in there because things weren't going as quickly as she had hoped. Q. Who was your builder at that time? A. Myself. I was my owner/builder. Q. Not the defendant; he was not involved? A He assisted me as a friend, just like many firemen came over. Firemen help firemen puild houses. Q. That's the remodeling you were talking about. aA. No. He helped me on a remodeling job AnchorReporters@aol.com21 22 23 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 as 1516 East Brainerd Street. Q. But he assisted you in building your house? A. He helped me on this home building over here. Q. What year was that, that he helped you? A. In East Hill or in Innerarity? Q. The one you were talking about. The one where you were talking about Bridget Heye coming over and asking you. A. Yes. Q. That's the one I'm talking about. A. What year? Ivan hit in "04? Q. Yes. A. Between February or March '04 and October '04. Q Define "assist." Describe what you mean by “assist;" he assisted you in '04. A. As a building contractor, a residential building contractor. He knows the process. He knows that before you can get your underground permit, you have to survey and pull your elevation. And then before you can pour, you have to get an inspection on your underground. | AnchorReporters@aol.com19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 24 And when you pour the slab, you get a slab inspection and then you can frame the first level and then you have to get an inspection. He knows the process, the order. Q. Well, it sounds like you do, too. A. I know it because I've done two houses and done a remodel of this house. Q. So did that help you, because he knew that? A. Absolutely. Q. You didn't know that at the time? A. I did not know that. Q. Okay. A. And so he would -- he was like my information source in that I would -- he told me, he says, "I can't build the house because I'm doing other things, but I will be more than happy to help you in any way that I can." Q. Let me stop you right there just a minute. He told you in '04 that he couldn't build your house because he was doing other things; is that what he said? A. Well, I don't know if it was that specifically. Q. Or words to that effect? AnchorReperters@aol.com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 25 A. What I meant was is that he was -- he wasn't building houses; do you know what I'm saying? And I couldn't afford to pay him to build a house. Q. You said before that he said that he couldn't build yours because he was doing other things; is that a correct statement of his that he made to you? A. I would not say that's a quote. Q. Words to that effect? A. Okay. What I’m going to tell you is what I'm about to tell you. Q. Well, let me ask you this -- A. I want to tell you the answer t the question. Do you want me to answer the question? Q. No. I want to ask you another question. Okay. MR, BEROSET: Hold on a second. Captain Allen, let him ask the question. You've made it on the record that that's not a quote of what he said. Let him ask questions and you'll get your chance to answer every question. MR. EDGAR: It will be a lot quicker because I just want to get what I want to AnchorReporters@aol.com20 21 22 23 24 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 26 know and not everything you know. Okay? Q. (By Mr. Edgar) Again, what did he say as to the reason, to the best of your recollection, why he couldn't build your house when you asked him to? A. I did not ask him to build it as-a person would. First of all, I would not ask him to build it because I had no money to pay him to puild it and because he wasn't building houses at the time. Q. How did you know he wasn't building houses at the time? A Because he was not building houses. I mean, I know him. He had gotten his license suspended because of the previous thing and he was not building houses. Q. That's. what I was going to ask you next. Is it because you knew at that time that his license had been suspended? A. I also knew I couldn't pay him because I just didn't have the money. I wanted to build my own house, but I didn't feel confident. Q. Try not to drift. Okay? A. I want to answer the question. Q. Well, you're not answering my AnchorReporters@aol.com10 iL 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 question. A. Okay. 27 I was not confident in building a house alone -- Q. A. Q. A. QO. Excuse me, sir? -- so I needed him, his brain. Would you stop just a minute? That is the answer to the question. Did you know in '04 that his license had been suspended? A. Yes. Did you tell the Heyes? Did I tell the Heyes? Yes. No. When July What They told me. did they tell you? of 104, did they say? Pat Heye called me specifically on the phone and said, "I really would like to meet with you." He about Bob.” Q. What A. right over.” picnic table. said, "I've got some questions did you say? I said, "Not a problem. I'1l be So I went over. We sat on his He stepped out of the house AnchorReporters@aol.com10 iL 12 13 14 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 trailer. His family was in the trailer, he stepped outside. We sat right outside of the house trailer. It was about 5:30 or 6:00 in the evening, because I remember the sun was laid over. And he said, "I've been looking on the internet," and he said, "I found some things that are troubling about Bob." Q. Now, had he already agreed to have him build his house at that time? A. No. Q. How do you know? A. Because he told me. He said, “I don't feel comfortable with the things that T found." And he was, basically, asking me for a character reference. He says to me, he says, it were you and you were having Bob build your house" -- or "Would you pay Bob to build your house; would you feel comfortable," is what he asked me. ould you feel okay with Bob building your house," based on the information he found on the internet. And I said, "Absolutely." He said, "Do you feel like he is trustworthy?" And I said, "Absolutely." Q. So if you would have had the money, you would have let him build yours even if -~ AnchorReporters@aol.com10 i 12 13 14 15 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 29 A. Absolutely. Q. Even if his license had been suspended? A No. He has to have a license. He got a license. He couldn't build without a license. He obtained a license before he built. Q. When did he do that; do you know? A. Shortly after that conversation in July, I believe. I've never seen the license. Q. Well, what month was it? A. I've never seen the license, but it was shortly after that, that Bob told me. Q. Well, that's not my question. I didn't ask you if you saw the license. 1 asked you what month it was. A. July is when I spoke to him, so several weeks after that -- days or weeks. Q. Days or weeks? A, Yes. Q. Could it have been months? A. No. Q. Okay. Days or weeks. Could it have been more than two weeks? A. I have no idea. Q. $o in just days or weeks Bob told you AnchorReporters@aol.com19 20 al 22 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 30 that he had his license back? A Yes. When I was speaking to Pat, Bob was in the process of getting his license. Q. How do you know he got his license? AL Well, ZI don’t. I've never actually seen the license. Have you? Q. Yes, I have. A. Okay. Q. So what made you think he got his license, because he told you he did? A. Right. Q. He said, "I've got my license"? aA. He said, "I can't build until I get my license back." He told me that and he told Pat that. Q. And then at some point, he said, "I've got my license"? A Well, when he began building, I guess I inferred that he had gotten his license. Q. All right. So within days or weeks of the conversation you had with Mr. Heye that you've related where Mr. Heye said, "I'm concerned about this man. I don't feel comfortable," within days or weeks of that he started building? A Yes, probably several weeks later. AnchorReporters@aol.com17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 It wasn't that next day. Q. Well, what does that mean? MR. BEROSET: Well, he just answered your question, Mr. Edgar. MR. EDGAR: Well, I'm asking him another question. I'm asking him what does that mean. And don't interrupt. If you have an objection, put it on the record. 0. (By Mr. Edgar) So what does that mean? A What is the question? Mr. Sdgar, I could save you a whole lot of work. a. What does it mean when you say -- A. My fax machine was used for the documentation that came to Bridget Heye, because she asked for it to be sent over my fax number. Q. Okay. A I’m gure you have that document. Q. What document; what do you mean? A. Where Bridget Heye asked Bob Sumner to send hex a quote or an estimate. Q. Now, when was that in relation to the conversation with Pat Heye; before or after? A. within days of. And that's, I'm not dodging that question. I, can't remember if it AnchorReporterséaol.com10 1. 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 aL 22 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 32 was just after or just before, but it was right in that time window. And the reason I know and where I'm basing this on is -- because I didn't keep a diary -- Q. Right. A. -- I am thinking about events that were going on at that time. Q. Right. A. And it's helping me remember order that the things happened in. Q. Well, that's what I know. A. Does that make sense? Q. Yes. I have an obligation here to find out what happened. I'm not trying to trick you. A. And I don't think that. I'm in the process of building my house and I had a fax machine on site. And I had known Pat and Bridget, but they had never met Bob. And they kept asking me about, "How is your house going? How is your house going?" And I would tell them. And I was telling them, you know, that originally, the plans we were going to put this wall here but we decided to move it over and, you know, Bob had given me some pointers about just, you know, he had given AnchorReporters@aol.com10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 me lots of helpful information about how to maximize my space, you know, and how to order material and get it cheaper. Qo. Right. A. And if you put a shingle roof on instead of a metal roof, you can probably trim some cost off. Tidbits that -- he knew I was under a budget. So Bridget was saying, "Well, where did you meet this guy?" And I said, "He's a fireman." And I said, “Several firemen build.” And like I told you earlier, we had multiple firemen who were contractors. And she goes, "Well, man, you all are lucky." So we kind of blew it off. And this is just back and forth each night she would come over and, “How are you all doing today?" So anyway, then finally she kept asking me and she says, "Well, I don't know what we're going to do." She says, "I've alzeady put my bid out to, like, three contractors and the bids are too high." And she was just kind of sad, distraught, I guess, about the fact that Magnolia Builders had bid it. She had actually showed me her plans. We went over to her trailer and she AnchorReporters@aol.com16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 34 showed me her plans. She was distraught that things were not moving. The more I built, the more distraught she got. Q. Right. A. So finally 1 told her, I said, "Look, Bridget," I said, "If you want to," I said, "Bob builds houses," I said, "Do you want me to have him call you?" And she says, "Well, do you think he would build my house?" And I said, “That's between you and Bob." But I said, "I'll be more than happy to give you his phone number." Q. Okay. A. So that's how the introdu happened. a So at that point, you gave her his number? A. Right. Q. And then -- A. He came out. I walked him over there. He came out to see how I was doing, because he was kind of checking on me. I would do a little bit and then I would get him to come and tell me what he thought. And he came out and I said, "Do you want to walk over and meet the AnchorReporters@aol.comDEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 Heyes?" And he said, "Yes." Actually -- actually, they came over and we were right there on my house. We were standing -- I had it framed, but it wasn't enclosed and they had come over. It was in the evening and they had come over and I introduced them to Bob. Q. Okay. A. He was there and I introduced them to Bob. I remember it now. Q. Okay. A. And very shortly thereafter was when Bridget was concerned about the interest rates going on up. And she wanted to try to get a lock on the interest rate. Q. Uh-huh. A. And I think I can answer your original question now. I'm sorry I had to go through all of that. I think that when I spoke to Pat about whether Pat's confidence in Bob was before -- I can't remember. I can't remember. It was just within days. Because they needed something in writing to give to the bank in order to get a lock on an interest rate of like five or five and a quarter or whatever they were try ng to AnchorReporters@aol.com20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 36 get. And that came through on my fax machine. They were standing right there. a. You said it came within days of what? A. Of that conversation of confidence that Pat asked me about my confidence in Bob and whether I would trust him, JI can't remember whether it was before or after. I really wish I could so I could tell you, but I just cannot. Q. So there was more than one fax? AL No, one fax. Q. Only one fax? A. One fax on my machine. Q. What phone would you use; was it a cell phone? A. No. I had a line. 492-0729. Q. 0279 (sic)? A. 492-0729. Q. And what about Mr. Sumner, what phone did he use? A I have no idea. A cell phone, I guess. Q. You introduced them. And how long after you introduced them did they start work on the house? A. On his house? AnchorReporters@aol.com20 21 22 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 37 Q. On their house. A. On the Heyes"? Q. Yes. A. Two months, three months, between two and three months. Q. Now, did you tell me that -- A. You could pull the permits and see that. But I'm going to say that we spoke to them -- the introduction probably took place somewhere around May. Q. Okay. A. And the conversation I had with Pat Heye about the confidence probably took place somewhere in July. And if I were guessing, and this I don't remember, the permit will tell you, I'm thinking the construction probably started in September. Q. Okay. And when did he get his license back? A I don't know that. Do you know that? don't know that. Q. Well, I mean, you said within days or weeks of the conversation with Pat Heye. A. Right. Qa. So it had to be before he started AnchorReporters@aol.com14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 38 construction; right? A. Yes, it was before he started construction. If I were just guessing, I would say August, but I don't know. Q. All right. I don't mean to belabor the point. Let me ask you this -- A. Is your time line getting better? I am really trying to give you a time line. Q. I just really want to know what you know and what you might testify to. Have you given a statement to the defense attorneys? A. I spoke to Barry Beroset on the phone. Q. Did you ever give a recorded statement? A. Uh-uh. Q. After they began the work, did the work progress without any problems or do you know? A. It progressed without any problems for a large part of it. Of course, hurricanes came in the middle of all of this and kind of caused some problems. But where the problem started was Bridget would make changes to the contract. Q. She told you that? AnchorReporters@aol.com20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 39 A. I was standing there. She would tell him, "I don't want it like that." He would say, "That's what the contract is.” And she would say, "Well, can we do it this way?" It is like, "Does that window have to be there? If it was over one foot, would that be acceptable?" Q. Right. A. "I know it says I need five outlets; can I have six," those type of questions. Q. Let me go back to something. During the time that he was working on their house, was he still assisting you? A. There was an overlap of a few months. Q. Go back to the assisting. When I asked you that before, you said that he would give you advice. A. Uh-huh. Q. What other kind of assisting did he ve you other than advice? Did he actually provide a crew, send people over, introduce you to subs, things like that? A. provided me with a list of subs that I might want to try. I didn't use all of them, but some I did I think. Q. Okay. AnchorReporters@aol.com10 11 12 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 A. could when he one shift and would come ov Q. A. and help me 1 Q. A. Q. construction? A. Q. That's it. Q. A. had many fire: You know, he would come over when he wasn't on shift, because I was on he was on another shift. But he er and help. What do you mean? He would help. He would bop nails ift lumber, him and his son. He would hammer and saw? Absolutely, yes. He actually helped in the Absolutely. With his son? With his son. His son came over, And he wasn't paid for any of this? No. What about his son? No. o What els Ian, by the way, is his son's name. That's it? And I had many people doing that. men come out that some would only I An chorReporters@aol.com15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 41 help one day and some would come -- I had neighbors, David Turner and Chris and Paul his sons came; basically, anybody I could get free labor out of. Q. Now, is this because you couldn't afford to hire somebody? A. Exactly. Q. Okay. A. It allows you to have a lot more house than you would be able to afford if you were Q. Okay. At the end of this relationship with the Heyes and Mr. Sumner, do you know what resolved -- I mean, what really happened at the end? A. Yes. Q. what? A. Probably in December, Bob -- there were so many changes taking place that Bob, rather than just -- let me start this again. When she first started making small changes, Bob would absorb those changes. He would say, "Sure. If you want to move that around, that's fine." Then she would decide something larger and some of them got quite large, in which AnchorReporters@aol.com20 21 22 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 case he had these trifold doors that are on the waterfront completely installed according to the plan, back at the house and because the window heights on the bedroom windows were higher than the trifold door windows, and she went back on a boat ride and looked she didn't think it was aesthetically pleasing. | Q. Is that what she told you? A. Huh? Q. Is that something she told you? AL No. Q. How do you know that? A. Bob told me. Q. So it's something Bob told you? A. Right. Q okay. A. Well, then Bob tells her, “Well, the doors are installed." And she said, "Well, I don't want them like Q. Did you tell you he told her A. He told the doors, jacks the is on, jacks the hous that." hear him that? me that. house up. © up, say that or did he So then he removes Because the roof removed the old doors, purchases the new doors and puts the new doors in. Ancho. rReporters@aol.com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 43 Q. Did you see somebody jacking the house up? A. I saw him. Q. Okay. A. As far as all of the work he did, I was like two doors over daily. So, I mean, we went to lunch at lunch time, Bob and I, and then sometimes Pat, Bob and I would go to lunch. And we would run and go get materials for them. I actually helped work on their house. I mean, I helped put some insulation in and run some wires and stuff like that. Q. Did he ever drive the fire truck out there? A. No. Q. Do you know about him driving the fire truck out there? No, absolutely he did not drive the -- you cannot drive the fire vehicles outside the city limits. He didn't do that. I promise you he did not do that. Q. If somebody said he did, that's not true? A. That's just a false statement. Q. It's not true? AnchorReporters@aol.com10 i. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 A. 44 It's just not true. I promise you that's not true. There would be so many phone calls that would happen if a C y fire truck was driven out there. Q. out there, A. QO. A. Q. A. and Bridget Q. Not out there, I'm not saying he went but other job sites? Oh, driven to job sites? Yes. I have no idea. Can he do that? I thought you were talking about Pat ye. Can he do that; can he drive it away from the fire station to take it to a job site, the truck, A. district Q. AL a map. Q. A. district. one of his job sites? As long as he stays within his - and I'm trying to answer correctly. Right. Each fire apparatus has a district on Right. And we have to stay within that If we want to stop at Barnes, then we can stop at Barnes, as long as Barnes is in our district. AnchorReporters@aol.com14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 Q. Well, that might explain i So as long as it's driven in the district, he can go and stop at a job site? A. Yes, absolutely. Q. All right. What if it was just to go to the job site; can he fire up one of those things and drive it off to the job site if it's within the district; is it okay? A. Well, what you would do -- I'ma company officer, a captain on a fi apparatus up until last Friday. What I would do -- let's say I wanted to go to a job site. Q. Okay. A. Let's say I wanted to go to a friend's house -- Q Okay. A. -- and they are in my district. Then I would get some hydrant cards out of my file and we would go to the hydrants near that house; does that answer your question? Q. Sure, just a pretext. A. Z would just do work that benefits the City so it also benefited me at the same time. Q. Well, you would be burning a lot of fuel u weren't going to do st to do something HE | AnchorReporters@aol.com10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 46 anyway. A. No. I have to do hydrants. I'm required to do so many hydrants. I'm required to do so many building surveys a month. I'm required to do territorial surveys and company officer training every month. Q. And you document that? A. I document that. Q. And once you do that hydrant, you can't do that again for a while or can you? A. Every six months. Q. Okay. There's a lot of hydrants around. A. A lot of hydrants, thousands. Q. Okay. A. And so what I would do, if I needed to pick something up from the dry cleaners and the dry cleaners is in my district, then -- we're also allowed to go get our groceries and eat lunch. Q. Right. A. Then to and from the grocery store, I will stop at the dry cleaners. Q. Okay. A. Does that answer the question? Q. Do other cars have to get out of the AnchorReporters@aol.com17 18 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 47 way when you do that? A. No, normal traffic. Q. Now, as far as what happened, I understand that he sued them and then, I guess, the case -- Oh, to finish that -- and this will be brief. Q. The lawsuit, yes. A. To finish that is that the changes got to be more expensive, more often and just got almost run away. When he would come and assign subs to do something, she would change it. And I stood there and watched her do that on the painting and things like that. And then she even told me out of her own mouth, she says, you know, “They're doing this. We want them to put this sink in and this is the sink that was in the plans," and this and that. So she kept making changes and finally Bob -- because they were putting pressure on him to finish in an untimely manner, because their lock was good for a certain period of We're back to the lock again on the loan. Q. Okay. A. And they were concerned that they AnchorReporters@aol.com10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 weren't going to meet the deadline for the lock, so they started putting time constraints on Bob. And Bob said, "The only way I can meet this" -- I believe it ended up b ing -- "January 24th deadline is to make no more changes." So he had an amendment to the contract drawn up. Q. Is that what he told you? A. Yes. I saw the amendment to the contract. Q. I mean, the only way to stop this was to have a deadline on the contract? A. Well, in order to meet their deadline, I can't do any more changes. Q. That was the purpose? A. I was standing there, when he said that. And he had the amendment drawn up and I saw e@ amendment. So he had an amendment to the contract simply stating that if there are no more deadlines (sic), we can meet -- if there's no more changes, we can meet the deadline. Q. Was there anything in there about -- anything about a lien or putting a lien on the house or not putting a lien on the house? A. The original contract had that. Q. So there was another contract? AnchorReporters@aol.com10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 49 Q. talking ab: A. Q. amendment, Q. A. it, but, I Q. that was i A. that -- no me. Q. A. made chang changes. Q. A. Q. the house? The original contract. Well, I mean, the addendum you were out. You were referring to an addendum. Yeah, amendment to the contract. Amendment to the contract, That to the contract, did it provide -- I don't recall. -- anything about a lien? I don't recall. You did look at it? I looked at it. I just glanced at mean, I saw it. Well, what do you remember about it n it when you glanced at it? He was just pointing out to me more changes. That was his point to So what happened after that? The very first sub that came out, she jes and then they continued to make And then what happened? Bob stopped working on the house. on his own or did they fire him from Did he quit them or did they quit him? AnchorReporters@aol.com12 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 50 In other words, did they say, "You're out of here. Don't come back," or did he just stop on his own? A. Let me think. Q. sure. A. Because, see, you have got to remember -- to d of explain some of this, I see Bob and I talk to him at work or I talk to him as a friend and then he drives off and goes to Pace and then I see my neighbors. So they tell me, "Bob did this. Bob did this," And then when I'm with Bob, Bob says, "The Heyes do this. The Heyes do this." I'm trying to remember -- Q. You get two different sides; don't you? A. -- who was doing what. Because, I mean, I was there everyday, I'm telling you. Q. Is it difficult to remember? A. It is. I can't say -~ Q. Say it again. AL I know he just stopped coming over there, but I don't know if when he did that they fired him. See, I don't know that. They could have called him on the phone and I wouldn't be aware of that. Q. What did he tell you about Jose AnchorReporters@aol.comDEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 Cobbs' situation? He apparently had a dispute with him. he tell you anything about that? A. He did not. And to this day, I still do not know. And I worked with Jose. He drove for me up until last Friday. And every third day, I worked with Jose. And although I knew there was a situation, Jose apparently has an amicable resolution, because Jose -- they are as close as they've ever been before or after. Q. How do you mean? A. They are good friends. They see eac other regularly; they did before. Q. Do you mean off duty? A. Probably some off duty, but mostly on duty. But they would speak friendly of each other, I guess, would be the best way to describe it. Q. Okay. So what's his status now? He is just waiting in resolution of this case -- Who is that? Q. -- as far as his status, Mr. sumner's status? A. He's the Fire Captain on engine four. Q. But if he's convicted of felonies, then what happens? AnchorReporters@aol.comDEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 52 A. He will not be a Fire Captain. Q. Is he eligible to retire? A. My opinion is yes. I don't know his exact date of employment, but yes. Q. Is there anything else that you know about this case that might help us? A. Since you asked an open-ended question, I am going to give you my opinion. It's my opinion that the Heyes were ecstatic with the fact that -- I mean, Bob -- they should be calling him and I thanking him every night for the fact that they are in that house, because they were not going to be able to purchase that house. They had gotten bids that were too high that they would not qualify for. At the time, her husband, Pat Heye, was working for Delta. They were in bankruptcy. He didn't even know if he was going to have a job. He also works as a reservist at the Navy Base. During the building that the house building construction was going on and Hurricane Ivan came, everything was working against this, and Bob just bent over backwards to make their dream happen. Because you could just see it, they were excited like people are. AnchorReporters@aol.com12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 53 She really, really wanted it. Every day she would talk about, "I don't know if we're going to be able to live in this house one day. We may have to sell it before we move in because I don't know if we're going to have a job tomorrow," and all of that. So Bob mistakenly held the change orders and did the changes and was like, "you know, we'll settle up at the end." But the changes grew and became more often. And the more he jumped through the hoops -- I mean, I was there. We went to Foley to purchase a door; put it in the back of Bob's truck. I was with him. He had already installed the door on the plans. She goes out there and looks at it and says, "Well, that's nice, except I picked a door out at Hoods in Foley. I want that door." So he goes, "Okay. Do they have it up there She said, "Yes, They have up there and I told them that you would pick it up." So we drive up there and we pick it up. Guess what? We get there, the door at Hoods isn't paid for. Bob writes a check on Sumner Builders or whoever, his business, to pay for the door. And he has already paid for the door that's in the house. He writes another check, brings the AnchorReporters@aol.com22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 54 door down, changes the door. Q. Now, what business is this, Hoods -- A. Hoods Home Improvement Q. -- in Foley? A. And that's just one example. Q. Okay. AL I'm trying to think of others. The electricians go down to install the lighting fixtures, and they're like, "Well, we don't want those lighting fixtures." Pat had been to Mexico on some flight and purchased some bronze fish that he wanted a lightbulb put in. And the electrical guy told him the electrician says, "That's not UL rated. I can't put that in there." So he says, "Well, just put me the receptacles in the ceiling and I will run the wires myself." So they do that. And then they get these sinks from Peru or wherever they are from and ask the plumbers to install them. was just she would open a magazine or go on the internet and see something and tomorrow she wants to know if Bob can do it. I was there when the painter tells her -- she comes in there and wants to paint some mural of some beach scene, And he says, “Lady, AnchorReporters@aol.com10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 at 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 )eeeeete 35 I'm not an artist. I'm a house painter." Q. And who was the house painter? A. I have no idea. Ask Bob or Bridget, they will know. Q. Okay. A. And it just went on and on and finally, Bob says, "Look" -- but at the same time while all of this is going on, "When can we close? When are we going to be done? When are we going to finish? When are we going to be done?" So then finally, Bob is like, "Look, if you want me to finish this thing, we've got to stop the changes." So what he is guilty of, in my opinion, is being too nice. Q. Okay. A. If he was a hard nose, none of this would have happened. If he would have held their feet to the ground and said, "You sign the contract and that's it, period. I£ I'm building it, I'm building it by the contract." Q. Aren't contractors supposed to write up the change orders? A. They are. Q. And then settle with them? A. You know what, I feel terrible that AnchorReporters@aol.comDEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 he didn't do that. Q. Anything else? A. No. MR, EDGAR: Do you have some questions? MR. BEROSET: No questions. (Off-the-record comments were (An off-the-record discussion held at 2:14 p.m., after which the deposition continued at 2:15 p.m.) THE WITNESS: I don't want to it. (The deposition was concluded AnchorReporters@aol.com 56 made.) was read at 2:1510 1. 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 CERTIFICATE OF OATH (STATE OF FLORIDA) (COUNTY OF ESCAMBIA) I, Pamela Dee Elliott, Florida Professional Reporter, Notary Public, State of Florida, certify that DAVID ALLEN personally appeared before me on the 2lst day of May, 2008 and was duly sworn. NESS my hand and official seal this i5th day of September, 2008. iv PAMELA El Ee nula Op) 164 Dinth 1 FLORIDA PROFESS yA REPORTER NOTARY "PUBLIC, STATE OF FLORIDA PAMELA LA DEE ELUOTT Public, Stale of Florida My comm. exp. Ap 28, 2011 ‘Comm, Ne ND s409a9 Bion AnchorReporters@aol.com17 18 19 20 22 23 24 DEPOSITION OF DAVID ALLEN 05/21/08 le 58 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER I, PAMELA DEE ELLIOTT, Court Reporter, do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the foregoing deposition of DAVID ALLEN; that a review of the transcript was not requested; and that the foregoing transcript, pages 1 through 58, is a true and complete record of my stenographic notes. 1 further certify that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, hor am 1 a relative or employee of any of the parties! attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am 1 financially interested in the action. pated this 15th day of September, 2008. SrudacCon a “PAMELA DEE ELLIOT! FLORIDA PROFESSIONAL REPORTER AnchorReporters@aol.com