Sahara Media interview with the Sheikh Mohammed Al-Hussein Judge of Timbuktu city

Judge of Timbuktu (left) with the Imam of Djinguereber Mosque

Sahara Media: What is your general value to the status of the city now. Especially after the implementation of the Sharia rulings? Sheikh Mohammed Al-Hussein: 651 $32)' $32(1. $0)/ . $+*$)(' $#" @ ?> $: <0;: 9' 8AB .$5" It is very normal that the hearts of the people shudder and it be filled of fear and panic due to the distorted image which the enemies of Islam and the media were eager to show the mujahidin in, and scaring the people from implementing the Sharia and considering that a matter that brings calamities and tribulations. Despite of that who knew the conditions of the city before of the arrival of the mujahidin realizes the big change that has happened, and will see clearly that the people come to the religion and adhere to the Sharia orders, and mix with the mujahidin to support or query and ask about the goals of their coming and the message directed from them to the public. He will also notice the disappearance most of the apparent vices that used to spread in the city, like grooming, drinking alcohol, singing, smoking, watching programs of debauchery, and promoting sins and vice, and add to that the people hastening to resort to Allah and His messenger and resolution of disputes among them according to Islamic Sharia, also the happiness of the

people and their relief for the Dawah and educational campaigns which are conducted in the mosques and schools and broadcasted through the local radio. All these changes are done according to a reform process that goes systematically, and is led by the group that has been absent for decades, the Ulema, Imams and Daiis, and the purpose of it is to resume Islamic life and the establishment of the Islamic project which the enemies of the religion were eager to eliminate and replace it with a strange way of life that is strange from the religious, cultural and ideological constants of the Ummah which are based on being slaves to Allah and obeying His religion and Sharia. In general, the people of the city due to their Islamic Fitra, are optimistic and have glad tidings, and the status of the city today certainly pleases every Muslim ardent on his religion, and grieves every hypocrite who is an enemy to the religion This is also with our recognition of negligence and not reaching to the aspired level, but we ask Allah guidance and success. S.M: What are the obstacles that face you in your work and do you find cooperation from the locals? M.H: It is not a secret that any experience in its first beginnings has to face obstacles on its path, especially when it relates of ruling with the Sharia which has been inactivated for more than a century, then it wont be easy, and there should be giving, patience and tolerance.. and the most important obstacles that we face: 1- Limited number available to us from the qualified scientific competencies to resolve and judge between the people, so that we are able to open courts in throughout the country which eases on the people the hardships of coming to the central court. 2- The many cases stuck for many cases, which need study and investigation of its details, and especially the issues of conflict on pastures, farms and real estate either it be between the people of the urban or the people of the desert. 3- The various social customs due to the various races and ethnicities between the Muslims that sometimes prevents from the quick resolution of the posed cases because of the effect of the customs on the judicial ruling. 4- The media campaign to distort the mujahidin falsely repel the people and sack from them the trust and confidence in the new Islamic authority,

especially when mentioning the implementation of the Hudud which the Muslims of this land arent familiar with. 5- The limited financial resources of the mujahidin also contribute in not reaching the aspired expectations. Despite of the hardships the ongoing cooperation between the Sharia judiciary and the different segments of society, especially the scientific and Sharia elite, and the cooperation and coordination reached an unexpected extent, by large numbers that joined the mujahidin and devoted themselves to serve and support the religion, and that encourages us to continue on the path of the order of Allah and rule between the people justly, and may Allah help us to endure the hardships and difficulties. S.M: Did you previously work in the judiciary under the Malian government and how do you evaluate the state of justice in the two periods? M.H: The judiciary in the time of the Malian government is a group of manmade laws that emerge from a secular non-religious system which constitutes the constitution of the country and its legal authority. So its obvious that the Muslim do not participate in it, but rather they disown from it and oppose it, but by virtue of the social structure and conservative tribal configuration of the people of the region which flee from resorting to manmade laws court, so the state recognized the people on their customs and traditions and turn a blind eye to who resort to their Ulema rule between them, and based on that some people used to refer to us for Fatwa, judiciary and reconciliation, and we used to endure that as a voluntary work and do it as obligation on the behalf of the rest. But we didnt have a forcing authority, and our rulings werent implemented except in a limited scale, and the state didnt care about our sentences, but today the rulings of Allah have a force that support it and make the people bind to it, Alhamdulillah. As for the status of justice under the authority of the Sharia and comparing it to the status of justice in the time of dominance of the manmade laws it is a comparison that cannot be accepted. Since it is comparing between the divine perfection and justice, and injustice and between the oppression and ignorance even if they saw it right and took it as religion and methodology.

Alhamdulillah when the people touched the blessings of the Sharia to came to it willingly, and lifted to it cases that were stuck for years, and submitted to everything that is issued from the Sharia court, for their complete trust in the ruling of Allah and His messenger, it even reached that who dont agree with the mujahidin in many issues only accept the Sharia courts that they established. This is contrary to the Malian government, which was gnawed by the religious corruption and was dominated by oppression and injustice and exploiting weak people and favoring those of influence, and above that disregard of religion and making the absolutely banned prohibitions permitted and empowering the enemies of Allah from hypocrites, Jews and Christians, and that is the importance of most of the human regimes which boast about the slogans of freedom, justice and equality, And it is Allah alone Whose help can be sought. S.M: Do you seek to develop your work and avoid mistakes that occur in the beginning and how will you do that? M.H: Certainly the human effort no matter how much it rose in the perfection the character of shortage, negligence and mistakes are adherent to it, and only a short period has passed on our implementation of our great Islamic project, always seek to make ourselves and what is published on our behalf accountable, and we aim to improve our works and rise it to the required Sharia level and hoped-for reality, and we listen to who gives us advice, and spread our hands to who wants to supports us, and we withdraw from our mistake if we were notified, even if it was issued by who doesnt agree with us, and our motto in this is aim and try to be close. And we dont spare any effort that leads us to take any path to achieve the aspired goal, justice under the authority of Islam. The development on the judicial level is occurring alongside with the developing in the cultural, economical and social field, and every day we see a clear improvement that encourages us to go ahead. And it is Allah alone Whose help can be sought. S.M: How is the coordination between you Ansar Al-Din Jamaat, did you face troubles with other groups like National Movement for the Liberation of Azawad (MNLA)? Since some of those demanding the independence of Azawad are calling for a civil state and criticize what Ansar Al-Din Jamaat is doing?

M.H: I would like to notify several matters that clearly clarify the essence of the relationship between us and Ansar Al-Din: 1- Judicial Council in Timbuktu is one of the committees formed by Ansar AlDin Jamaat, and it consists of figures who are members of the Jamaat and others who arent members of the Jamaat organizationally and kinetically, but the Jamaat asked them to cooperate for the common overall goal, so on the basis of cooperating on righteousness and piety they accepted the mission and took on the responsibility. 2- The judicial committee is an independent authority which all the Muslims submit to its rulings either they were individuals or groups. 3- Jamaat Ansar Al-Din as the ruling authority in the country seeks to provide financial and moral support, and it is the executing force for the Sharia sentences. So its rule is integral with the Judicial Council. 4- We dont have clumsy formalities and superficial hollow protocols as is the case of the rest of the judiciary systems, but our judiciary authority is based on spending the effort in knowing the Sharia ruling after searching the reliable scientific references and assistance of honest expertise and the careful consideration of the events and its circumstances. And all cooperate in order to reach to the truth everyone according to his specialty and position. As for the other movements working on the ground which differ from us in vision and methodology, until now, didnt find from them any troubles or obstacles in implementing the Sharia, and if we assume that they will be a stumbling block in the way of ruling with the Sharia then they will be demolishing the constants of the nation which they claim they have struggled for it, and betray the core issue which the heart of the conflict and the reason of the suffering. And then there will be no difference between them and the enemies of the Ummah except the formal Jahili differences which contributes in complicating the conditions of the people and the continue of their suffering. And we from our side deal with these movements as we deal with all the people, since every violation or crime or dispute the rule of Allah is the one that resolves it regardless of the people affiliations. Regarding the call for establishing a civil state and our stance from that, the answer for that depends on the definition of the civil state, if it was meant the civilized state which is based on urbanization and development in the different

aspects of life, and benefiting from the outcome of the human civilization, and seeking to achieve prosperity and progress for the people, and getting the people out from the backwardness of the desert and the darkness of ignorance, and ruling people with justice, and making them able of participating in building their civilized future, if they meant that Islam was the first who called for the building of the earth and benefiting from its riches and tour its lands and think about the kingdom of Allah, and Islam is the religion of science, and religion of reason, and the religion of Fitra, and the Islamic civilization was the greatest civilization that combined between the worship of Allah and working for the hereafter, and between answering the wishes and aspirations of man in his Dunya in a frame that pleases his Lord. And this is our goal and we are ready to cooperate with every Muslim who this is his real goal. But if it was meant from the civil state the state that is based on the citizenship and equality between the segments of society regardless of their religions and ideologies, and the foundation of life in it stands on absolute freedom in satisfying the decadent brute desires without any supervision or control, and the rule in it refers to what the people chose either that is consistent or contradicts with the religion and there is no overturn for the rule of the people regarding that, and that religion isnt binding for the people but rather it is a personal matter and implementing it returns to the whims and desires of the people, and in the best of cases it is considered an inherited cultural folklore only respected because it is just the heritage of the forefathers and customs of the fathers. This kind of state according to the Sharia is a Kufri state that fights the religion of Allah, and the one who calls to that is contradicting the religion of Allah outside the circle of Islam, and we wont accept him no matter what slogan he raises, and we call these people if they mean this to repent and return to the circle of Islam, and think positively of Allah and meditate in His advantages, and emancipate from the inferiority complex and defeatism disease which makes the Moslem a lackey that breakaway from his religion and driven towards the false Kufri doctrines just only because most of the people follow it. But unfortunately: (And most men will not believe though you desire it eagerly) 103 Surah Yusuf. S.M: What is your view for the future of this experience will it continue and succeed? And in case the conditions werent stable what are the available options?

M.H: We arent ordered to know the future and how will the matters devolve in the future, although we wish that the rule of Allah on the slaves of Allah over the land of Allah continue, and the mujahidin departed and sacrificed their money and souls only for this goal. Our mission is to work with the obligation of our time that was imposed by Allah on us which is the implementation of the religion of Allah on what is our hands from lands according to our capabilities, and this is the balance of success, and our hope in Allah is big and our positive thinking of our Great Lord, and our certainty of the firm promise of Allah: (If ye help Allah, He will help you and will make your foothold firm) 7 Surah Muhammad. S.M: Can you suspend some of the Sharia Hudud for certain reasons (like suspending of the Had of stealing if the drought intensify in summer) or there is no possibility for that? M.H: Suspending any of the Hudud of Allah in principle and removing it from the list of Sharia sentences is a clear Kufr and enmity to Allah and His messenger and a fatal Fitnah.. the Almighty says: (and be cautious of them, lest they seduce you from part of what Allah has revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and most surely many of the people are transgressors) 49 Surah AlMaeda. But avoiding Hudud with considerable doubt or an excuse that is accepted in the Sharia might happen and we are ordered to do so, and relates to every incident in particular without generalizing of the sentence, and this is an issue mentioned in the books of Fiqh and it is not strange to who have knowledge of the Hudud and penalties. S.M: What does the Western criticism mean to you What about the relation with the neighboring countries Is it possible that we witness cooperation with some judicial bodies in these states if the conditions become stable and a state was established in Azawad? M.H: The Western criticism isnt strange, because it is comes from the an ideological conflict and a religious enmity, and we dont expect that nations which its ideologies were based on atheism and disbelieving in the Creator and disrespect of what Allah has revealed from legislations, and replaced that with systems based on the worship of material and divining desire and drowning in

the sludges of decadent lust and brute desires, until they became more similar to cattle and animals, and difference between them is that the animals are more guided, to be satisfied from us. And thus we dont see any benefit of being concerned of this criticism as long as the ideological fundamentals and the cognitive basis and thinking methodologies are inconsistent, and it is better for them if they want debate to come to the homes through its doors, and look to the fundamentals of their false ideologies. Even if we already know that many of them in this era are hostile to the people of Islam just for envy for what Allah have granted them, and we can only seek refuge of Allah from the evil of every green-eyed. As for the neighboring states that surround us they dont accept to resort to Allah and His messenger in all the aspects of life: in ideologies, worship, dealing and moral, and also it doesnt accept the rule of Allah in the fields of politics, economy and international relations in the time of war and peace, even that some of these states werent satisfied by removing the Sharia and replacing it with manmade laws, it added to that war against Islam and its people, even some states that raise Islamic slogans and claim being proud of its scientific and cultural Islamic past were satisfied to be on the other side where the enemies of the religion are standing. Then all of them agree on distorting the image of the people of jihad who want to implement the Sharia of Allah, and alienate them from the people by calling them names from the same type of what the polytheists call the followers of the prophets in past and present. Thats why we dont expect when the situation is like this cooptation and coordination in any field. And until these regimes return to the religion of Allah and submit and surrender to its rule, we draw our call to all the good Muslims from the people of knowledge and experience in all the fields from the people of the land and others to come to us and extend to us the hand of support and contribute with us in building the Islamic project on this part of the Great Sahara of Islam. /)0$()*.. A5h *)A?25* j6 1k+;h '9@ 90)/ $: <0*6: AB @A< 9' 6+/ l;m '9 398. .3n. 8 Interviewed by: Othman Ag Othman