BLOGGED

Or That Grace Might Reign...Revisited Bob Couchenour

From blogs of Bob Couchenour on MySpace.com between April 2006 and August 2006 re-examining That Grace Might Reign originally written by Bob Couchenour in 1985 from studies in the late seventies

That Grace Might Reign...Revisited

I was committed
I entered into what may be called a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ some 30+ years ago. I was 22 years old and heavily immersed in Rock & Roll and drug culture. From 16 years old through high school and post high school, I was a daily pot smoker (multiple times a day), regular wino, heroin shooter (as well as other opiates), Southern Comfort guzzler ( a fifth at a time), LSD tripper (150 trips in 18 months - I stopped counting at 75), cocaine, methodrine, PCP, Quaaludes and beer, and lots and lots of Rock n Roll. I was committed. Heading out to find myself, traveling in a converted US postal mail truck/camper with a homosexual friend (I am straight), we swung through Nashville, made an ass of myself, and finally landed in Atlanta Georgia. I decided to stay in Atlanta while my friend continued on to New Orleans. In Atlanta I frequented the rock bars, eventually got an apartment, and settled into a routine of work eight hours, practice the guitar 6-8 hours, sleep, work eight hours, practice the guitar 6-8 hours, sleep, work eight hours, practice the guitar 6-8 hours, sleep, punctuated by pot, booze, angel dust, Lynyrd Skynyrd and a few other classic great southern rock and blues artists. I was committed. I can distinctly remember the thought going through my mind that I was on a Prophetic Mission. Of course, how I defined that mission at the time was not exactly Prophetic in a Biblical sense by any stretch of the imagination. The point is I was committed. Without going into a lot of detail (which may come sometime in the future), Christ got a hold of me. I had been sharing a house with another musician I imported from the DC area. The routine was basically, work, pot, rock n roll, pot, sleep, pot, work, pot, rock n roll, pot, sleep, pot, work, pot, rock n roll, pot, sleep, pot. We were committed. Or maybe its, we should have been committed, or maybe its we didnt have the vaguest idea in the world what it meant to be committed. Booiiing!!! A light went on. (or was that bong). No-- man, it was a booiiing !!! Enlightenment Sitting in my living room, in my cloth lounge rocking chair, rolling a joint. The usual

after work routine. Smoke up an get into the music. But this time I was faced with a question. Did I really want to do this? What? The music or the joint? I was committed to the music. But the pot was getting us nowhere. It was a delusion. But I liked it. But it was a fantasy, and believing it enhanced the music was a farce. I could see it in music created by other musicians when they got high. Being high listening to or playing allowed me to believe the music was great. But being straight listening to a smoked up group was a boat load of shit. I wasnt committed to making shit. But I didnt have the desire to stop myself. In that rocking chair, by myself, being tempted to light up that joint. I was posed a question. Do I really want to do this? NO- Christ, if you can take this from me -- DO IT. I threw the joint across the floor. My guitar playing partner came home and a literally bounce into the kitchen. I going to become a Christian A moment of silence - Yeah, Right. What have you been smoking? Im going to become a Christian. I proceeded to explain we were going nowhere like we were, and I had to change. The conversation led to long hair and Christians cant have long hair. No understand now - this was at a time when musicians had LOOOOOONNNGG hair. And mine was loooooonnnng. I said I would deal with that when I found something about it in the Bible. So the first thing I had to do was buy a Bible, which I did the next day. And, of course, the stupid thing had a dang concordance in it, and I was now obligated to see if the word hair was there. It was. Well, maybe it doesnt actually say anything about long hair. It did. Well I checked the verse and Oh Shit Sherlock. I was smart enough to read the context (verses before and after) and followed some of the cross references.

I was not convicted I had to cut my hair because it was a sin. It didnt say it was a sin. It said it was a shame (this was a KJV Bible - Holy one at that - I think they charged me extra for the Holy edition). There was an escape clause if any man be contentious of this, we the churches of God have no such custom. YES!!! OOOOHHH Yea, God is Good!!!! But there was something at work in me now. And that damn concordance just happened to include the word contentious in it. And I was dumb enough to check out the verses associated with it. DAMN I became convinced I need to cut my hair. Not because it was a sin - It doesnt say that. But I was a contentious person. And that contentious nature is a sin. I didnt need to cut my hair to prove my commitment to Christ. It wasnt anything I was doing at all. I already knew, I couldnt do shit. But I need to cut my hair for me, and my musician friend. It meant something to him. It was evidence to him. Wednesday afternoon - enter Christ. Thursday - buy a Bible. Friday - Off it came. About a month later my friend went to witness my baptism. That didnt mean diddly squat to him. But showing up that Friday night without my hair. That was commitment. That was 32 years ago. Over the last eighteen months I have grown my hair long again (whatever is left to grow long), and gotten a rather large tattoo on my right hand that says I AM THE LORDS. This I do essentially for the same reason as 33 years ago.

Beyond the Grave

A cursory reading of I was committed will see a contrast of lifestyle that is incompatible with usual Christian norms. A caustic destructive way of life ultimately leading to the grave. It is that, but that is not the point. There is more, and the more is what we in the Church have missed, or, misplaced, or possibly misrepresented, and confused our own illusory perceptions and surface values as the real thing. There is no argument that destructive lifestyles are detrimental. We, in the Christian community, tend to separate ourselves from the world based on lifestyle, or incompatible sets of religious dogma. We take it upon ourselves to do this based on a Biblically justified doctrine to: Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you. "And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me," Says the Lord Almighty. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 And thus we set up arbitrary codes or standards of lifestyle that separates the us from the them. That which does not match our particular approach to codifying the faith is now of the world, outside and anathema to all that is Godly and righteous before God. As long as we maintain our walk in the faith within the bounds of our code, we are confident that we are serving and in right relation to our God. We are quite adapt to figuring out what is Godly behavior; applying ourselves to the externals of religion, disciplined systematic theology, measured and well managed lifestyles, a place for everything and everything in its place. Well run and maintained religious machines. We will never consider that any and every religious system can do and does exactly the same thing. Yes, there is a different set of religious doctrine and dogma that surrounds the practice of the particular faiths, but they all end up focusing on the maintenance of the external lifestyle in relation to the world that they find themselves foreigners in and/or the next life to be entered into. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 is regularly used to justify our code of ethics religion. And this does establish a form of godliness. But to extract a passage of scripture out of its context to support our religious notions is not Christ in you.

The Corinthian church certainly had its carnal lifestyle problems. This is not the issue Paul was dealing with. Corinth also had its problems with a plethora of false teachers. careful attention to the context reveals the appropriate nature of this warning with respect to the false teachers with whom the Corinthians were interacting. The Christian and the non-Christian (false teachers) have little in common (vv. 15, 16) and must not be tied together in partnership. Paul drives this truth home by the use of five rhetorical questions which all expect a negative response. The simplest interpretation possible of a difficult or ambiguous passage of Scripture, is not necessarily an accurate rendering of the content contained in the passage. Context and pertinent information must not be neglected and ignored as irrelevant, in order to best syncretise and synthesize a theology convenient to accepted norms. But this is the state of the Christian religion. A set of religious dogmas struggling to maintain its place and relevancy in the world along side the other world religions. The problem is not the Bible. The problem is our systematic, humanistic academic reliance on our own ability to rightly divide the word of truth apart from the foundational understanding of Spiritual reality upon which all Scripture is dependant and authored by. So our New Testament Christianity evolves into little more than an Old Testament approach to constructing our Christian Talmuds employing both Old and New Testament verse virtually indiscriminately. The Bible has become the embodiment of the Holy Spirit. I.e. the Bible has become God. God, whom the Bible speaks about and relates too, is replaced by our finite reconstructions as gleaned through our investigations into Scripture apart from the Spirit. I.e. We worship a God of our own making. Following and to some degree becoming involved in some of the groups, forum discussions and debates on MySpace, I have become convinced that the Church is Spiritually anemic. We divide ourselves along, Fundamentalist, Liberal, Emergent, Catholic, Gnostic lines and whatever other possible offshoot may be thrown out there, and argue and demean and generally run each other down and treat each other as just so much road kill. This anemia is not a left or right issue. I believe it is an ignorance of Biblical truth in preference for a convenient theology of control. A desire and preference to control God. Until we begin to realize, recognize and release the Person of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, we will not know the power of the resurrection. Our Christian faith will remain just another of the competing world religions. Essentially competing on a level playing field for the attention of whoever would give us that attention. That is not Gods intention - God - in us - would that the world be turned upside down. It is not our religion, it is not our doctrine and arguing that will do this, It is God - In us The Holy Spirit.

We have chosen - for the most part to remain ignorant of this reality. It is not hype. It is finding our first love and living in Him. As the Holy Spirit is released in us individually and ultimately corporately, I believe we will see the world turned upside down. But it will not necessarily look the way we would envision it should. It will also not be the result of our argument and control. We will participate, but it will not be us. It will be Christ in us. A long time ago I studied and wrote on the subject. I intend over the next coming days or weeks to dive back into this material. When I originally shared this material I was told Its not casual reading. I will be spoon feeding it and drawing on new, fresh insights. This is not crazy stuff from out in right field someplace thrown together by some space cadet. That may be subject for argument by the time I get through though. Many respected resources were drawn from in my original research. I do not claim to have figured it all out by any stretch of the imagination. I have learned a few things. These I will endeavor to pass on. There are people of God that I am learning and gleaning from myself. As I am able, I will incorporate their insights.

Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Technician, Lawyer

The Apostle Paul was a lawyer. Reading his epistles it is helpful to under stand you are in most cases reading a legal brief that is often confusing and not all that easy to follow, to the non legally trained mind. And at that, a legal mind of the classic Roman and Pharisaic Jewish traditions. Is it any wonder his writings often leave us with that deer in the headlights stare. I saw it (read it), but Im not sure what I am seeing. Am I really as dumb as I think I am right now? Oh yea - sure - it makes perfect sense-----NOT. Over the years, one of my favorite local preachers has been C. J. Mahaney, pastor of Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg, MD and one of the founders of People of Destiny International. In the mid 70s I used to go to downtown D.C, to TAG meetings (Take and Give) to here C.J. and Larry Tomzcak minister to young people. In the early 90s, after his seminary years, my family attended Covenant Life services for about 6 months. C.J. had become a very strongly grounded Bible preacher in the Reformed tradition, although the charismatic influences, particularly regarding the worship experience remained as strong as ever. I remember in one of his messages he pointed out that most of Pauls writings can be divided into imperative and indicative sections. Usually the first part of an epistle would lay out the imperative, the legal, theological foundation upon which the indicatives, the practical course of actions following are based. Its been 16 years since I heard that and it still sticks. But I, at one time, could have been thought of as a Bible nerd. I could also be considered a computer geek, but I think hacker is probably more to the fact. As a musician, I would think of myself as a technician. All these descriptions, nerd, geek - hacker, technician, all deal with the mechanics of the subject they deal with. Even Lawyer is concerned with the precise choosing of language and technical legal jargon that would leave most of us out of the loop and at their mercy, as if mercy were a concept within their judicial paradigm. These terms, as work descriptions, as necessary as they may be in the mastery of a craft, are not descriptive of the essence of the purpose to be accomplished in the particular discipline. Each discipline must serve the general public and communicate to the general public in the most general, common and non technical a manner as possible. To put it simply, each must become user friendly. As a musician, an artist, mastery of technique is something I must continually apply myself to. But, music is more than technical mastery. Music is the expression of feeling and mood. It is the communication of heart emotions. It is a fluid, flowing pouring out of what is inside, expressive of invisible and elusive concepts inexpressible in logical terms or words. It is the emptiness of nothing manifesting into a crescendo of the magnificent or even horribly violent. Technique must be mastered to accomplish the task, but technique will never be the sound that is appreciated. Come to think of it, this really isnt to bad an analogy describing the difference between faith that is head knowledge, and living life expressed through the Holy Spirit. But it is not a perfect one. Eventually a good musician will not even think about technique, but simply play what he feels. The analogy fails in

that Bible Head knowledge, does not translate without question into life in the Spirit. Studying Romans, and in particular the 6th, 7th, and 8th Chapters, we are seeking to come to an understanding of the outworking of the Holy Spirit. There is a lot of legal mumbo jumbo that is necessary to be worked through, the first 5 chapters, in order to bring us to a place where concept of the Holy Spirit will make sense. The fact is, the Holy Spirit is in the whole thing. But until we realize what we are, and are not, what is required of us, and what we are incapable of, the Person of the Holy Spirit will remain some elusive ethereal other. When I originally did my study (late seventies) and compiled the lessons, one of my goals was to get this material out of the realm of theoretic theology and bring into a place of practical expression. I do not believe I was successful in that. Solid on the imperative, weak on the indicative. I believe there were about 25 years of practical experience that had to occur before that goal could actually be sought after. The original lessons, although foundationally solid, there are Spiritual insights that can not be substantiated exclusively through an academic study. The acquisition of Spiritual insights through practical living and experience is as much or more valuable to the understanding of the Holy Spirit as our scholastic enterprise. I hope an appreciation of the truth and insight contained in Scripture regarding what is actually revealed concerning the Holy Spirit will be your reward. I know it is there. I hope I have the ability to aid in opening it up to you. ------------------------------------------------------If you are really nerdish and want to see the original lessons, they are found at http://www.godjam.us/That_Grace_Might_Reign.htm

Presumptions Challenged
Beginning a study, where we are, automatically assumes that those receiving the word to be taught are already Christians, they have received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. This does not mean that they have a full understanding of what all that might imply, but that they, having been "born again", have received Jesus Christ into their lives, and now place their faith and confidence for life in Him, rather than themselves or any other source. It is true that this faith or confidence in Christ may be a matter of degree(s), but this is the purpose of the lessons that follow, to learn to grow in grace, that grace might reign, and the Lordship of Christ may become a living reality, not just some impractical abstraction of religious terms. Excerpt - Introduction- That Grace Might Reign Is there such thing as a pure untainted theology? In any kind of study of the scripture, the Bible, is there truly a way around approaching it without the baggage of doctrinal presuppositions carried from prior learning and indoctrination? Maybe not. The fact is we will always approach any investigation with our own preconceived notions and colored glasses which will always taint to at least some degree our perspective and ultimately the outcome of what we are investigating. The only way I know to circumvent such a situation, is to regularly challenge my initial assumptions and presuppositions in light of new or reformulated presentations of the information upon which my assumptions and presuppositions are based. I may find that the original presuppositions are faulty, or possibly assumptions are based on shoddy constructs in anothers theology, or my own misinterpretations of Scripture passages. What does it mean to be born again? Many, if not most, Evangelicals would adhere to a description, to one degree or another, relatively close to the one quoted above. The general acquisition of the born again state is very often tied to some formula such as stated in Romans 10:8-10: But what does it say? The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart (that is, the word of faith that we preach), 9 for, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved. Sign your name in the book on the dotted line and its a done deal.
8

But - What if this was not Pauls intention when penning this portion of his epistle to the Romans? Was it Pauls intention to lay out a formula for us to cut and paste into our Four Spiritual Laws? Simplify the entrance exam so there isnt the need to dive too deeply into Spiritual truths that are, after all, over and above our heads and only suited for contemplation by the learned and educated keepers of the faith. 12 But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, 13 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a mans decision but of God. John 1:12-13 3 Jesus answered him, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot ever see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God. John 3:3 5 Jesus answered, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born of water and [even] the Spirit, he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of [from] the flesh is flesh [of the physical is physical]; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above). 8 The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit. John 3:5-8 Suggested reading John 3:15-21 There are a few errors we apply to the Romans 10:8-10 scripture as we us it as an evangelistic proof text. As an evangelistic formula proof text it is taken out of its original context. The point Paul is making in the context of Romans 9 and 10 is the displacement of the Jews by their rejection and the inclusion of ALL who would trust in Christ through faith. 11 The Scripture says, No man who believes in Him [who adheres to, relies on, and trusts in Him] will [ever] be put to shame or be disappointed. [Ps. 34:22; Isa. 28:16; 49:23; Jer. 17:7. 12 [No one] for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord is Lord over all [of us] and He generously bestows His riches upon all who call upon Him [in faith]. 13 For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved. [Joel 2:32.] Romans 10:11-13 Another error we succumb to is our shallow concept of faith - to believe.

We have reduced faith-to believe to an intellectual assent or agreement. It is that. But that is only the surface of faith, that part that you can see or the part you conveniently allow others to see. We are born again by the Holy Spirit as God wills it is not a matter of our choice John 1:13. Our error is in how we manipulate the text of Scripture, and define concepts to say what we want it to say to justify our own presuppositions, rather than modifying presuppositions to align in better relation to the truth. What 'the name of Jesus' means in practice is speaking in his 'nature' (his persona). We do that by expressing the deeper feelings from our hearts - his spirit - Brian Sage To be born again is a Spiritual transaction. It is Spiritual before it ever manifests in an intellectual expression. No doubt, it will. To each individual that may be articulated in a somewhat unique manner. But to each born again believer, that faith exercised is in fact the out working, or if you prefer working out, of the Holy Spirit. It is, in essence, Christ in you. To call on the Name of Jesus is not a matter of crying out to an historic figure who lived two thousand years ago, was crucified, died and was resurrected. It is to lay hold of, embrace and experience all that is contained in the living actual reality of life given in the Person of Christ through the Holy Spirit in you. To do, or pray or in any way act or function In the Name of Jesus is to do no less than to manifest Jesus in your life. When I originally wrote - A LONG LONG TIME AGO- in a galaxy far far away, I wrote with a presupposition of what constituted a born again believer. Im not so sure of that as I was. For certain, I have come to realize, there are as many, if not more who claim to be born again, who are more full of it, than they are full of Him.

Charis
"...But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:20b-21 NIV But now, in Christ, "...grace might reign through righteousness..." what is this "grace" that is to reign through righteousness? The Greek word used for grace is "charis". It is used to denote "good will, loving kindness, and favor". "Charis is used of the kindness of a master towards his inferiors or servants, and especially of God towards men." "Charis contains the idea of kindness which bestows upon one what he has not deserved: Rom. XI.6". "--. the N.T. writers use Charis pre-imminently of that kindness by which God bestows favors even upon the ill-deserving, and grants to sinners the pardon of their offenses, and bids them accept eternal salvation through Christ: Rom. III.2;V.17,20". "Charis is used of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting His holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues:" (Thayers Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament). To summarize Dr. Thayer, "charis", "grace" is not of ourselves, but from God. It is not something we deserve, but is the result of God's loving kindness. It provides the initial ability to come to Christ, and the on going power which enables us throughout our Christian experience. Excerpt - Introduction- That Grace Might Reign

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; Ephesians 2:8 (Recommended reading Ephesians 2:4-10) Ephesians 2:8 is another of those evangelistic proof texts. It is usually used to stress to acting in faith towards God to acquire salvation. For by grace is lipped, but usually without any real knowledge or understanding of the richness grace actually encapsulates. Grace, rather than being comprehended for all it represents becomes one of those religious givens assumed in justifying whatever dogma or action we find ourselves. And we set about cleaning up our act, finding good deeds to immerse ourselves into and keeping active with all kinds of religious stuff, because after all, isnt that what Christians do? Keep em active, keep em moving, dont let things slow down, an idle mind is the devils workshop. Because after all we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them. Ephesians 2:10 But, if I am His handiwork, why am I working so hard? Or is that just one of those paradoxes where we work our asses off and give God the credit. NO - No - No - No - Noooo.

Thats that friggin Puritan work ethic. Have you ever considered that disciplines and justifiable necessities and ways of looking at the world and life - from the past, which may even have been a matter of survival, may have become a religious bondage of the present. How much of the exercise of our faith is actually traditions embodied in our Christian Talmuds. You know what the Talmud is dont you. Well, some may not. When the Jews were taken captive to Babylon, Jewish religious leaders collected the oral traditions and interpretations of the Torah (first five books of the Bible) into two collections ,the Mishna and the Gemara. These together were foundational after the Jews returned in establishing practical applications of their Jewish law. It was these traditions that Jesus took such issue with. Over the last two millennia, we in the church have collected our own sets of traditions. Some are written. Many are oral and often take the form of quaint sayings like Cleanliness is next to Godliness, An idle mind is the devils workshop, God helps those who help themselves, you get the point. Many more are not spoken or necessarily written but are assumed. Depending on the denomination, or church fellowship, these assumed rules may differ, but very rarely do they not exist. The bottom line is, none of these has anything at all to do with your relationship to God, and the outworking of your faith as composed and orchestrated by God. They may be convenient guidelines to move within the context of a particular gathering or association of believers. As concerns you and God, He has dealt with you, and is working in you, and the mores of cultural enclaves are not your Spiritual watch dogs. Grace - It provides the initial ability to come to Christ, and the on going power which enables Charis has become a dirty word in much of the church. I can not deny a certain misuse or abuse of the word in the Charismatic Movement. Charis is translated gift in I Corinthians 12-14. There is truth that has been opened to us over recent years concerning these Spiritual gifts. I can say I have experienced their exercise. I have also experienced what I perceive as the presumed assumption of their exercise. Most of my Christian life has been in relation to Charismatic fellowships. I have also experienced Spiritual dynamics that can not be explained by usual Charismatic or Pentecostal explanations of these phenomena. But even in the experience of these charismata, there is a depth to the grace of God that makes these experiences pale by comparison. God is in me.

Does that sound arrogant? HE is working in ME. HE is changing ME. HE has got ME in the palm of His hand. In everything I do, every place I go, HE, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ is in ME. This is grace. I may screw up. NO - I will screw up. But nothing will separate US. Grace be with you.

Righteousness - WARNING - some language may be offensive

The readers of this blog are from a wide range of backgrounds. I know of musicians, Christian and those seeking, Poets of reputation, artists, theologians, Fundamentalists and Liberals, Emergent and New Age, besides those I would call common folk of which I consider myself. I am humbled that such as these would have an interest in what I would write. Normally I constrain my language as I am able to communicate sufficiently without resorting to offensive speech. Not this time - I am applying more of writing from my heart, and sometimes the best I can express that, may be offensive to some. So - If you think

"...But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:20b-21 NIV "...grace might reign through righteousness..." "...through righteousness...". And what is "righteousness"? The Greek word is "dikaiosunhe". It means "the state of him who is such as he ought to be, righteousness; the condition acceptable to God;" "integrity, virtue, purity of life, uprightness, correctness in thinking, feeling and acting...Rom. VI.1), 16,18-20". "In the writings of Paul...Paul proclaims the love of God, in that by giving up Christ His Son, to die as an expiatory sacrifice for the sins of men He has attested His grace and good will to mankind, so that they can hope for salvation as if they had not sinned. But the way to obtain this hope, he teaches, is only through faith, by which a man appropriates that grace of God revealed and pledged in Christ; and this faith is reckoned by God to man as dikaiosunhe (righteousness); that is to say, d. denotes 'that state acceptable to God which becomes a sinners possession through faith by which he embraces the grace of God offered him by the expiatory death of Jesus Christ"'. When we by faith accepted Christ as our Savior, we received from God, as a result of God's grace, righteousness before God. A righteousness ascribed to us by God. Excerpt Introduction- That Grace Might Reign Righteousness - As I have followed discussions both on MySpace and in other groups scattered over the Internet, I have and am continuing to be exposed to a wide range of ideas and thought regarding how people understand their relationship to God, or seeking God. Many I can not help but think come more out of the Twilight Zone or a screen writers imagination than what could possibly be revealed or discovered as a matter of a Quest for God. Okaywhatever Righteousness - There is a lot that ,for me, is nothing more than theological bondage. Yea, they spout a lot of orthodox correct doctrine, but are so bound up by the party line that the possibility there may be something that is not included in their structured theology is anathema, and to consider the slightest endorsement - heresy, and if we lived 400 years ago we could plan on a weenie roast. Theyre more interested in finding weenies to roast than people to love.

Righteousness - Then there are those who cant seem to find any definition of God at all. Or, at least it seems, any definition will do. There is nothing that is authoritative, least of all the Bible. Any and all may be quoted as an authority, but if there are no absolutes, one might just as well be reading graffiti on a rest room wall. For a good time call Righteousness - There are many that seem to glean a lot of spiritual data from many varied sources, and are truly seeking to understand God, and if it were possible, come to know Him in as intimate a relation as possible. Most, seem to reason that Jesus is great, but are not convinced of the orthodox understanding of the necessity of Jesus as Savior/Redeemer. I must admit I have the greatest affinity to this group - except - I need a Savior. I was fucked up. In many ways, I still am fucked up. Or, at least, my tendency is naturally towards fucking things up. I can not rely and depend on my own good standing before God as sufficient. In many respects I find agreement with Fundamentalists as regards foundational issues. The problem is Fundamentalists are stuck in a rut. As understanding about God and the Bible could have grown and developed, they have allowed their theology to stagnate, to a place that it is little more than a cesspool of religious shit. But I believe they are right about the sinful nature and condition of man and the propitiatory work of Jesus death and resurrection. Maybe you feel you dont need that - I do. Matthew 9:12-13 NASB But when Jesus heard this, He said, It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: I desire compassion, and not sacrifice, for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners. also Mark 2:17, Luke 5:30-32 And I am glad it is not my righteousness, but the righteousness provided by God that I am relying on.

It is in the Gospel of God, the "good news" of Jesus Christ His Son, "who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead" (Rom. 1:4 ), that "a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: 'The righteous will live by faith."' (Rom. 1:17 ). "But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe...all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Rom.3:21-24 ). "He (God) did it to demonstrate His justice (righteousness) at the present time, so to be just and the one who justifies the man who has faith in Jesus." (Rom. 3:26 ). "...Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." (Rom. 4:3 ). "...to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Rom. 4:5 ). "...he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised...he is the father of all who believe...in order that righteousness might be credited to them." (Rom, 4:11). "It was not through the law that Abraham...received the promise...but through the righteousness that comes by faith." (Rom. 4:1) ). "...being fully persuaded that God had power to do what He had promised. This is why 'it was credited to him as righteousness.' The words 'it was credited to him' were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness- for us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead." (Rom. 4:21-24 ). By receiving Christ, we have received righteousness, the righteousness of God, a right standing before God, a condition of being just as we ought to be before God, just as if we had never sinned. God accomplished this task, we could not. We can merely accept it by faith, and it is done. This is theology. It is a reality, but it is still a theological abstraction as far as being an everyday experience or reality that we can apply to our down to earth, humdrum, day by day living. Thus far any way. Excerpt - Introduction- That Grace

Eternal life
"...But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:20b-21 NIV "...how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ." (Rom. 5:17 NIV). Those in Christ received life when they received Christ. Eternal life is not just a future possession; it is a present reality that God intends that we should apprehend, now. Not just somewhere down the road in the future, always being put off until tomorrow, but now. The resurrection of Christ is a present reality. The life Christ lives is that eternal life, and that life is ours. Besides that life, to the believer, there is no life. All that is of the natural man is dead. Excerpt - Introduction- That Grace Might Reign John 17:3 AMP And this is eternal life: [it means] to know (to perceive, recognize, become acquainted with, and understand) You, the only true and real God, and [likewise] to know Him, Jesus [as the] Christ (the Anointed One, the Messiah), Whom You have sent. John 14:16-17 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you. In Christian discussions and debates that transpire, the relative value of the Bible in relation to extra-Biblical resources is argued. And, even as the Bible is recognized as authoritative, segments and particular books are debated for their value in relation to each other. As far as I am concerned its a lot of bull shit and I stay out of these discussions. For me, the Bible is my first and final reference. I do use other resources, but they are subjected to acceptance based on my understanding of what the Bible reveals. Now it is true, my understanding of, and interpretation of the Bible may and does evolve as I grow and become more insightful. I am not planted in concrete. In this, in my own valuing of the Bible as my prime reference, there is a relative ordering I apply to the various books. The Gospels are higher in the order than the epistles. Within the Gospels, the Gospel of John is more significant to me than Matthew, Mark or Luke. Among the epistles, Romans is the most significant, followed by Ephesians, the rest falling in depending on the value they express concerning the particular issue. I am not going to explain my rationale for this right now. I will respond if there is an interest but, this is not the time. As best I have been able to actually figure out, and I have done time (I was going to say

spent, but done is, in my mind, truer) in Charis-maniac sanatoriums and Alcatraz Rock Solid Reformed based institutions, most Protestant theology begins with Romans 1:17 (the just shall live by faith) and proceeds to build by incorporating thought from the other epistles. And then finally references back to the gospels. Now Reformed theology, for its order and meticulous precision, is the most orderly. But, there is a tendency to skip or rationalize away portions of scripture that may imply a mystical relation in Christ, that may supersede a purely rational academic approach to knowing Christ through the Bible. The Charismatics love to pick and pull from the gospels, but not with any kind of reason or understanding of the context of the verse pulled as a proof text. They pick and pull from wherever they can find a scripture, virtually always out of context, that will support a pre-defined position or theology that is desirable or they have been told is part of the Gospel message. Now, let me back up a step, there MAY be some truth and validity to what they are TRYING to prove by their hunt and pick, cut and paste Frankenstein religion. Their method does not lend validity to it. Between these two (now understand - these are only two examples used for rhetorical argument) - there is a reality of life that both have missed. One has, based on their traditional presuppositions of dispensationalistm (not just the denial of current operations of gifts but total misunderstanding and apprehension of the Person of the Holy Spirit) has written off the reality of Spiritual Life except as it may be apprehended and acquired through academic exercises. Applying ourselves to rightly dividing the Word of Truth, but only rightly dividing as is compatible with previously constructed accepted categories. The other has actually come to realize that there is more than what we have been allowed to experience based on a guarded, structured orderly division of the Scriptures, in to many cases reasoning away the parts that dont fit. In reaction to this religious bondage, knowing there is more, in the tradition of good Protestants, it was time to get out of Dodge. But in finding liberty a bit (or more than a bit) of common sense was left back in Dodge. In the quest for God, freedom in the Spirit, hunt and pick, cut and paste theology, at its best, renders little more than a hit and miss experience of Spiritual realities. There is more to our Christian faith than what our theologians have allowed us to experience or understand. Its not their fault - not totally. They cannot teach us what they do not understand and have not experienced. And all that weird shit going on, if understood in a broader context and understanding of Scripture, may not actually be that weird. And if the place of the Spirit in us is actually brought out as it IS in scripture, a lot of the phony stuff just might be exposed for what it is. Its not setting up a new religion, a new denomination. It is realizing the FACT of the Eternal Life purchased for us by Christ on the Cross and implemented in His resurrection. That life is available and in us now. In many ways our religion has kept it buried, as though Christ had not risen. And we have been trying to live our Christian lives hanging on a cross. Christ did not remain on the Cross. Neither should we. Christ rose from the dead. So must we.

Apprehend
"...But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:20b-21 NIV How then do we apprehend this life, this eternal life? How do we realize it in our present experience? ";so also grace might reign through righteousness..." Grace is the key. God's grace. It provides the inspiration and the ability. But it most be accepted, and then acted upon. Believing that God will perform what He has promised. To "believe" is never passive. To believe is to trust and then act accordingly. This does not negate "waiting on the Lord", but rather trusts that the Lord will lead. Apprehend 1. arrest somebody: to put somebody suspected of wrongdoing into legal custody 2. understand something: to grasp the importance, significance, or meaning of something 3. become aware of something: to become aware of something by use of the senses (formal) 4. be fearful of something: to await an impending disaster or other calamity with fear or dread (formal)
Encarta World English Dictionary & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Grace - HE is working in ME. HE is changing ME. HE has got ME in the palm of His hand. In everything I do, every place I go, HE, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ is in METhis is grace. Grace - It provides the initial ability to come to Christ, and the on going power which enables By receiving Christ, we have received righteousness, the righteousness of God, a right standing before God, a condition of being just as we ought to be before God, just as if we had never sinned. God accomplished this task, we could not. We can merely accept it by faith, and it is done. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe Rom 3:22

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,

nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13 What does it mean to receive Him? And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. John 1:16 The confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead sinners prayer (Rom 10:9) doesnt wash. Weve already seen that application of that scripture is out of context with the rest of that passage. Paul was not dispensing salvation formulas. Yes, there is truth to the concept, but a formula is not the truth revealed. So what does it mean to receive Him - receive Christ. 3 Jesus answered him, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot ever see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God. John 3:3 5 Jesus answered, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born of water and [even] the Spirit, he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of [from] the flesh is flesh [of the physical is physical]; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above). 8 The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit. John 3:5-8 The Church, for virtually the entirety of its two millennia existence has reduced our relationship with God into Creeds, and doctrines and dogmas. Our faith is as an adherence to simplified and sometimes complexly arranged principles. All for fear of what might be confused as a Gnostic mysticism, with potential to deny the bodily incarnation, real death, and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. For fear of that which can not be easily codified and controlled through humanistic devises, authentic Spiritual realities are conveniently ignored or explained away, rejected and denied. I do not reject the historic creeds and doctrines of the Church. I do not espouse a Gnostic faith as historically rejected by the Church. I do believe there is Spiritual truth revealed in the Bible that we have been conveniently kept ignorant of. If these truths were to become understood, control by the religious and political elite would virtually dissolve. It is not to the advantage of the religious establishment to recognize the validity of a Spiritual dynamic that they are not personally and intimately the dispensers of. I dont believe this is a Religious conspiracy, Pastors gathering in presbyteries and synods, and ministerial associations to concoct their plans to keep us ignorant. NO - NO -

NO, Its really not them at all. It is the religious system that has been bought into and entrenched over two thousand years. Weve got the Pope, Weve got our Synods, Weve got our presbyteries, weve got our board of deacons, and elders, and trustees, and CEOs, and Sunday School Superintendents, and Father confessors, and priest intercessors, and Worship Leaders, and Church Growth consultants, and Youth Groups, and spiritual 12 step programs, and soup kitchens, and crisis pregnancy centers and a million more you all know of. And ALL can function with or without God, without a dynamic Spiritual impetus, and wed never know the difference. You might say we have really learned how to do Church. Weve had two thousand years of practice and have really got this act down. Yes weve got our religious shit together. And - for the most part - that is exactly what I believe it is. Religious shit. There are Spiritual forces at work, in the world, in the cosmos, in our religious systems, to occupy our time, to keep us busy, to keep us ignorant of the fact and existence of genuine Spiritual realities, and particularly the Person of the Holy Spirit. Fear of the unknown and uncontrollable has been the spiritual weakness of the church that has kept us dormant. Unknown, because we are relating to God, the Holy Spirit, and pastoral resources may not be able to vouchsafe all His presence may hold. Uncontrollable - when the Holy Spirit is allowed intimacy in those who are receptive, there are no rules. That does not imply anything goes license to rape, maim and murder. It frees us to love in relation to each other rather than in bondage to a code. Lipping the words to a rhetorical prayer doesnt get you there. Mental assent to the historical fact of Jesus resurrection is only the icing on the cake. Those who are born of the Spirit are carried (borne) by the Spirit John 14:16-17 "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you." Operating in relation to the Holy Spirit is not a religious voodoo dance to try to convince the Holy Spirit to fall on us. Throw away that crap - Hes already here - Hes in you. And Youre nine months pregnant, its a minute to midnight, and that kid wants out. Drop that bundle of joy. Does He look like His Father? How about His older brother? (bad theology, good metaphor)

Through
"...But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:20b-21 NIV Thus far we know it is the grace of God which has placed us in a position of right standing before God. We know that it is the grace of God which will perform in us, or give us the abilities we are lacking to live in accordance with this grace and the eternal life of Christ we have received. But how? "...through righteousness..." We know that we are righteous before God in Christ. This standing before God is now to become realized in our present experience. Righteousness must now move out of the heavenlies, and be manifest in the earth. But not our righteousness, not of our own devises, and plans or schemes, or thoughts and imaginations. But God's righteousness manifest in we who believe. The life we demonstrate shall be God Himself, the life of Jesus Christ, the righteousness of God here on earth. The word for "through" in the Greek denotes "of the Means or Instrument by which any thing is effected- because what is done by means of a person or thing seems to pass as it were 'through' the same" (Thayers). "...denoting the channel of an act; through" (Strongs). Grace, the grace of God will reign through righteousness. Righteousness is the channel through which God's grace will flow. God's grace performing God's righteousness in our lives. Grace reigning in our lives. This is what we shall find as we continue through our study of Romans chapters 6, 7, and 8. First we will see what God requires of us- Second; we will see our inability to perform these requirements. And third, we will see how God has provided the means for us to realize grace reigning, to experience in daily living the life of Christ, to be partakers of eternal life.

d??a??s ??? - dikaiosune Pronounced: dik-ah-yos-oo-nay 92 occurrences; AV translates as righteousness 92 times. 1 in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God. 1a the doctrine concerning the way in which man may attain a state approved of God. 1b integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting. 2 in a narrower sense, justice or the virtue which gives each his due. We are told in Deuteronomy chapter 30, that after experiencing both the blessing and the curse of the Law, there is a time to return to the Lord and obey him with all our heart. It is at this time the Lord will turn our captivity, and have compassion on us. At this time, when our relationship becomes a heart matter, rather than just that of obeying laws,

"...the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart...to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live." (Deuteronomy 30:6). Circumcision becomes more than just a religious ritual, God is taking action on our hearts. God goes to work on our hearts to make it possible to love Him with all our hearts and souls and the result being that we may live. God does something which man was not able to do through the physical act of circumcision, or by obeying laws He has given. He affects our hearts. That Grace Might Reign - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit. Ezek 11:19 AMP And I will give them one heart [a new heart] and I will put a new spirit within them; and I will take the stony [unnaturally hardened] heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh [sensitive and responsive to the touch of their God] Ezek 36:26 AMP A new heart will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law within them, and on their hearts will I write it; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. We in the Evangelical Church have embraced the idea of the imputed righteousness of God as made available to us through faith in Jesus Christ. This, we reason, is a legal position before God that no sane human being would possibly reject. We evangelize to the utterance of what we consider to be the sinners prayer, which essentially establishes the individuals personal covenant (contract) with God. Entering into said contract guaranties the individuals place in heaven (upon death). Depending on the franchise through which the contract was entered into, certain training requirements may be either mandatory or optional. Other benefits associated with the contract, in most cases are dependant upon the individuals willingness to accept training and/or adhere to the arbitrary rules of order as determined by the particular franchise authorized to administer the contract. Default by the individual, or failure to perform appended terms as set forth by the particular franchise, may necessitate actions by the franchisee to (A) terminate the contract, (B) suspend the contract until specified compliances are met, or (C) do nothing and maintain the individual on the franchisees roles in good standing, at the discretion of the franchisee. Rapture Clause: The Franchisee may include, as an added benefit to the contract, a Rapture Clause which provides for the immediate removal of the individual from impending tribulations expected upon the return of Jesus Christ. Should the franchisee not include a Rapture Clause in the contract, upon the return of Jesus Christ, should said rapture occur, the individual will be obligated to remain an additional seven years through said tribulations. There is no added cost for this Rapture benefit, so it is highly recommended that it be requested. Transfer to another franchise. Should the individual find it beneficial to transfer affiliations to another franchise, it is recommended to arrange for a letter of recommendation and transfer to avoid having to reinstitute the contract and maintain all benefits in force. Individual franchisees may not accept letters of

transfer from originating franchisees should differences in rules of order and benefit packages prove to be incompatible. Recognition of contracts entered into by competing franchises is totally at the discretion of the individual franchise. Individuals entering into a contract must beware that the contract entered into may not be recognized as valid by all parties without question, or without meeting additional requirements as determined by whoever you may happen to choose to affiliate with. I, the under signed, have confessed with my mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord. I also affirm that I believe in my heart that God raised Him from the dead. Signed _________________________________________ Date: _______________ Bilge water - Bull tinky - How can I write such sarcastic crap? Because after thirty two years in the church, although there certainly are exceptions, this is the general state of church affairs. Im sure I will get plenty of arguments that this is not representative of my Church and I certainly hope it is not. If you see it is, if you see the slightest evidences of it becoming like this, and you decide to remain, challenge it, fight it, otherwise expect to become as cynical as I am about the prospects of current Church organizational structures being capable of serving and providing leadership models in the future as the church begins to realize who and what it actually is. We - the typical church goer, attendee, member, believer - are not going to remain ignorant and in the dark as to who and what we are actually in Christ indefinitely. Christ is in us, He is changing us. We are coming to realize it is Him who has placed a new heart in us. It is Him who is writing His laws on our hearts. Creeds and Doctrines may express a boat load of truth, but these creeds and codes and religious party favors, confetti, balloons and pony rides are not His life in me, or in you. His life in us is righteousness , peace and joy. Weve got the Religious Legal Righteousness stuff down to a fine science. We need to begin to apply ourselves to the art of getting that righteousness that is in us out of us. Integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting. justice or the virtue which gives each his due If indeed we are born of the Spirit, born again there is a character in us that we do not need to learn. It does need our permission to grow. It is more an art, than a science. It isnt even such that we can manipulate or control, but we can quench it. We do not make it happen, but we can allow it to happen. Trust God In You.

An Opening, An Introduction, An Exposition

The passage of scripture we are about to study, Romans 6:1 through Romans 8:14, needs to be studied as one unit. There is a great deal of material which can be studied and reviewed in much greater detail than we will allow ourselves to do at present. It is not the intention of this study to be a complete commentary, which certainly has its place, but rather to be an opening, an introduction, an exposition of God's word, that we may better follow in our walk after the Spirit. At the time Paul wrote his letter to the church at Rome, he (Paul) had never been there. But yet he had a responsibility to that church which was developing. In Romans we have the foundations of Christian doctrine, presented in the most systematic form found in the entire Bible. It was Paul's intention to give this to the church at Rome in proxy of his actual being there. The letter's of Paul to the other churches, which have become a part of the Bible, were to churches which Paul had established as a result of his missionary work, and these letter's were primarily for correction and encouragement and deeper revelation concerning the church. But in Romans we have the fundamentals, the A, B, C's of Christianity. Having come to Christ, Romans 6, 7 and 8 give us the basics of what is expected and how they may be experienced. Excerpt - NOT AFTER THE FLESH - That Grace Might Reign There are a few things I have been considering here. First, in all our studies of the Bible, when considering that it is God who is actually our subject, is it ever possible to present anything more than an opening, an introduction, an exposition. By exposition I mean: (a) detailed description or discussion: a detailed description of a theory, problem, or proposal discussing the issues involved, or a commentary on a written text discussing its meaning and implications. (b) act of describing or discussing something: the act of describing and discussing a theory, problem, or proposal or commenting on a written text. Second, in considering the legal background of the human author Paul, both Classic Roman and Pharisaic, even as the fundamentals of Christianity are presented in the book of Romans, and the disregard and apparent lack of consideration of this in interpreting Pauls reasoning and logic process, and the propensity to pick and pull scripture as proof texts, I can not help but openly question and wonder, just how truly fundamental are Fundamentalists? Im not looking for an argument with Fundamentalists, although Im sure Ive found one. The fact is, most Fundamentalist theology, I find much agreement with. There are faulty presuppositions and extraction of scripture out of context used as proof texts that does cause me to question some of their conclusions and practical applications. In this presuppositional wanting and errant contextual verse extraction, leading to

misinterpretations, there is Spiritual dynamic and truth regarding our nature in Christ that has been lost. Lost is not accurate - misplaced, ignored - not understood. My intent is not to dismantle orthodox, Reformed, Fundamental, Evangelical or any other theology. There are some constructs in these that I will not hesitate to circumvent and reinterpret in light of a broader understanding of possibly more viable set of presuppositions. Evangelical Fundamentalist theology has its root in Reformation theology. These men, Luther, Calvin and the rest were great men of God. The Puritans, Wesley, Edwards, the names and groups are too numerous too expound. All had some contribution in the development of who this church is. NONE were perfect or in agreement with all others in their theology. Our problem is we ere in the process of growing in our knowledge of Christ. We ere in that we adhere to an orthodoxy of Luther or Calvin or Wesley or the Puritans or Augustine or the Pope or whoever, and to the extent that any fail in their logical processs, to the extent that we canonize their errors, more often than not ignorantly and unknowingly embraced as absolute by our predecessors, we are not in Christ. We may be Orthodox - and yet - Not in Christ.

who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit
Being "saved" by "faith" through "grace", where do we go from here? Romans 8:1 from the King James version of the Bible says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The phrase, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit", does not appear in the earliest manuscripts, but this phrase does sum up the truth revealed in Romans 6:1 through Romans 8:14, whether this phrase is included in the translation or not. What do we mean when we talk about the "flesh"? As a note to Romans 8:1, the New International Version (NIV) of the Bible adds, "...who do not live according to the sinful nature..." The "flesh" is our sinful nature. The nature of man as he naturally is. Sin is our "natural" character. We will go into this in more detail shortly. We are not to live according to our sinful nature,

The idea that we, human beings, are fundamentally flawed in our humanness is not very popular in our contemporary age. There is a significant amount of interest in spiritually things of late, and people are searching. Emphasis on the sinful nature of man as presented by Evangelical Fundamentalists without understanding and corresponding God enlivened reality of Spiritual life and dynamic through the Holy Spirit, has left many an ardent seeker disillusioned and skeptical that there is any validity to the Christian message and good news. Nonetheless, whether we have presented a complete message or not, the fact that we, human beings, apart from the infusion of the Spiritual dynamic of life, made available to us through the work of Christs death and resurrection, are not what man was originally created to be. Like it or not, and I cant say that I do, as a human being, born of the flesh, my spiritual nature is twisted, affecting the rest of my humanity, and ultimately in relation to the rest of Gods creation affecting it, to the place it functions in disorder. This natural character is referred to as the flesh. It is representative of more than what is obviously carnal animalistic, but includes the mind and emotions of man acting independently and severed from relation with God. This deficiency in our humanness, extending all the way back to Adam, was why Christ had to die. There is a trend to attempt to devise a logic and theology to circumvent this necessity. To try and write off the Historic reality of the Cross, the death, burial and resurrection as something other than what is, as historically presented in the Bible and attested to by the

Church. It is to my belief, as presented in Scripture, that the Spiritual implications as regarding the life purchased and made available to us, through the death and resurrection transaction of Christ have never fully been realized in the life of the Church. This lack of our apprehension of Spiritual realities does not invalidate the truths we have come to understand though. Christ is not done building His Church. Kingdom values are becoming of greater concern and interest within the fellowship of believers God has called to Himself. Coming to understand and lay hold of deeper Spiritual dynamics does not necessitate a wholesale disposal of universally understood truths. When I first came to recognize Christ as Lord, in my Neanderthal stage, when it came to church and religious jargon I was dumb as dirt. I over heard someone making a comment about Charismatics and didnt know how to respond. Eventually I asked a spiritual big sister Were charismatic arent we? to which she responded yes. Up until a couple months ago I had never heard of the Emergent Church or had zilch of an idea of what it meant. In learning of what is occurring in the church in various trends and movements, it finally hit me. I am emergent. Its not that I am trying to be emergent or fit into a movement. I am simply being who I am as God has made me and being faithful to Him, and myself as I understand His life in me. As I understand the trend and one of the dynamics Teaching focuses on narrative presentations of faith and the Bible rather than systematic theology or biblical reductionism. I have no problem with this. narrative presentations of faith works for me. What does not work for me is a wholesale write off of what all God has done till now. Our perception of the irrelevancy of what we identify as the contemporary church, can well become the same judgment criticism to be made of us a few years down the road. Irrelevancy and seeking to address the need is one thing, denial of the faith is another. When it comes right down to it. the only way to deal with the irrelevancy of the church is to allow God to have it back. To begin functioning in the life and power available in us. To let Him out and walk after the Spirit. Weve done it in the flesh long enough.

Dead
We are not to live according to our sinful nature, or at least this is what has been stated thus far. If we are not of a mind to accept the phrase from Romans 8:1, not included in the early manuscripts, nothing of value has been said. But let us probe further, what may have led to the inclusion of this phrase in the Bible. Concluding that we have been saved by grace, Paul asks the question in Romans 6:1, "...Shall we continue to sin, that grace may abound?" His answer is an emphatic "NO! We died to sin." What's this? "We died to sin." Yes, you, when Jesus Christ was crucified and died, He died to sin (Rom. 6:10), and we died right there with Him. Romans 6:3-8 points directly to this. "...baptized into His death." (Rom.6:3), "...buried with Him by baptism into death..." (Rom.6:4), "planted together in the likeness of His death..." (Rom.6:5), "...our old man is crucified with Him..." (Rom.6:6), "...he that is dead..." (Rom.6:7), "...if we be dead with Christ..." (Rom.6:8). Excerpt - NOT AFTER THE FLESH - That Grace Might Reign Psalm 27:4 AMP One thing have I asked of the Lord, that will I seek, inquire for, and [insistently] require: that I may dwell in the house of the Lord [in His presence] all the days of my life, to behold and gaze upon the beauty [the sweet attractiveness and the delightful loveliness] of the Lord and to meditate, consider, and inquire in His temple. [Ps. 16:11; 18:6; 65:4; Luke 2:37.] Ephesians 1:17-20 AMP [For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him, By having the eyes of your heart flooded with light, so that you can know and understand the hope to which He has called you, and how rich is His glorious inheritance in the saints (His set-apart ones), And [so that you can know and understand] what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength, Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His [own] right hand in the heavenly [places], The Church has grown contented in religion. A few well established doctrines and a comfortable situation, a Bible, a code of morals and ethics and the maintenance of respectability. Dead mens bones. Life, whether it be natural physical or spiritual, is always growing, changing. Change is not comfortable to us. There are new ideas, situations, ways of perceiving things that we must become re-accustomed too. And as we become accustomed to these, something invades our happy situation and demands we begin the process over again, anew, fresh.

Religion may become institutionalized, life never can be. I am being stretched myself. It is not the same issues I wrestled with twenty-five or thirty years ago, but the struggle is just the same. These are things that I will not openly share and write about, because I am still in the process, and dont know what truth I may finally come to realize. I know what some of the possibilities are. Others perceive these things on a level of intimacy greater than I have come to comprehend. Maybe I will, maybe I wont. Im not through yet, and neither is God. Though I may not have come to realize what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us to the measure that it may well be possible, I realize more than what I did, and I have come to KNOW I will comprehend more as I continue to seek, inquire for, and [insistently] require.. The religious have ended the quest. Boxed answers suffice. Chapter and verse, page ### paragraph 3... If its not in the table of contents, check the index. Electronic and mechanical word analysis, key it in, hit search, scan the concordance. I plead guilty, I do it all. And it feeds my head - religious fat food. Is this all bad? No. But this is not the substance of intimacy and relationship with God in Christ through the Holy Spirit. Life in Christ - not religious acceptance of a few historical facts or the attestation of creeds - but Spiritually infused LIFE, begins in an odd place, death. Our death, in Christ. We relatively easily accept the death of Christ as a legal transaction placing us in a right standing position before God. Fairly simple, there is nothing we really have to do. Acknowledge it and feel secure our religious requisite is fulfilled. A nice secure legal position. But is that what its all about? The Church has been doing religion for two thousand years. God has never deserted, but the church has placed its concerns in building a religion, surrounded by spiritual talk and religious words, but has essentially adopted political models and models of first century synagogues as how to do it. First century synagogues focused on a God out there and acquiring understanding through devotion to the scriptures. Once adopted by the Roman Empire, the church began to model itself after that political institution. This was the one stabilizing factor through the Dark, Middle and Medieval periods of Western history. During the Reformation, the trend began to shift away from the centralized political model back to the synagogue model in varying stages. The Church politic was the primary conception of doing it, in one model or the other. The dynamic of the intimate Spiritual actuality of God in us, may have been a legal religious given, but as an actuality in the lives of most believers, a mystery to be understood someday in the future when

we finally appear before God and Christ in the last day. We have already referred to the "flesh" is our sinful nature. The nature of man as he naturally is Paul asks the question in Romans 6:1, "...Shall we continue to sin, that grace may abound?" Shall we continue to live in our natural character, divorced of relation and intimacy with God (my paraphrase) NO - you died with Christ. - You died to the old external concept of God out there. You died to the old religious system and attempts to pour God in through religious methods and exercises. You died to trying do it yourself. Sin is not defined as the bad things we do - Sin is missing the mark, and on our own all we can do is miss the mark. In Christ, I, You, We - died to that. Bob Dylan put it like this: Gonna change my way of thinking, Make myself a different set of rules. Gonna change my way of thinking, Make myself a different set of rules. Gonna put my good foot forward, And stop being influenced by fools. We have been bound to ancient models of doing it that have not permitted the experience of God in us - as He IS. As we begin to die - realize Christs death in us - captivity to these old wineskins can be shed - Life (Eternal Life) can be realized. 1) As our spiritual hunger grows there is a move in consciousness from the intellectual assent of a separate God up there in the sky to the awareness of the 'indwelling' spirit of Jesus and starting to follow him personally. Instead of being 'fed' by external sources of teaching and learning (which is temporal and perishes) we are beginning to pick up on the 'indwelling' food that doesn't perish. It's called 'eternal life'! 2) This change in awareness to following the spirit ('metanoia' repentance) begins to reveal the truths of the kingdom of God. 'Life' now, and people are beginning to 'see' a whole new world opening up with immense possibilities - it's exciting. Brian Sage - NZ

I am crucified with Christ

Galatians 2:19,20 says, "For I through the Law am dead to the Law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ..." Christ's death was the fulfillment of the Law. When He died, I died. Romans 6:5 says, "...if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death..." "If" in the "likeness". The death of Christ must become a reality in our lives. We cannot physically hang on the tree with Christ, and even if we could our physically dying on the cross would not have accomplished anything as far as God is concerned. No amount of self-abasement, self sacrifice or self-denial is of value to God. God required a perfectly holy sacrifice, one that could only be accomplished through His perfect Son, the Lamb of God. And that "death" is the death we must realize, in the "likeness of His death". 'Likeness' means "in a similar way, representation, copy, facsimile, reproduction". The end result of being planted in the likeness of His death is "we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection." The 'resurrection', for us is yet a future reality. The 'resurrection' of Christ is a present reality. Romans 6:4 says, "...as Christ was raised up from the dead... even so we should walk in newness of life." Between dying with Christ and being resurrected, the reality of a new life should be lived. Philippians 3:10 says, "That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection..." Even not having come into the experience of the resurrection, the "power of the resurrection" is a reality, something that is at our disposal. Phil. 3:10 continues, "...and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death;" "as Christ was raised from the dead..." the 'power of the resurrection', "even so we also should walk in newness of life." We should walk in newness of life, it is the power of the resurrection that gives us the ability to realize that new life, but without the death of Christ in our lives the resurrection of Christ cannot be realized. No death, No resurrection, No new life. Colossians 2:12 puts it thus, "Buried with Him in baptism (death), wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God (new life through the power of the resurrection)..."

Were Christs death, burial and resurrection purely a matter of historical fact that we assent too and so acquire a legal status as being in Christ, born again so to speak and as is generally accepted in Evangelicalism? Or, are there deeper Spiritual implications as to relating the death, burial and resurrection of Christ to our lives? How is Christs death, burial and resurrection applied in our lives? facsimile FAX - We receive a fax. The death, burial and resurrection of Christ, in time and space are historical facts. This is relatively easily documented through the Bible and outside sources. Yes it is a subject of some debate, but ultimately true. It is not faith that is necessary to prove this, it is unbelief that finds it necessary to disprove it (but that is an issue to be argued elsewhere). What is

being expounded here is of value to the faithful full of faith and nonsense to anyone else, so categorize yourself. death, burial and resurrection of Christ - done deal. But before the foundations of time, before there ever was an in the beginning God created, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was an accomplished fact. It was not plan B. Before the foundations of all creation, heaven, earth, time and space, the fact of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was, or in Gods perspective IS. was is a term of relative value, to us - finite creatures, bound by time and space, conveying meaning in relation to time past. God is not bound by His creation - Time. We - finite creations of God, bound by time and space - experience Gods work and purposes within the context of fixed boundaries. Even as the universe appears to be expanding, and as far back into time that we are able to peer, through space, there is an end. We may not have reached it yet, and I believe we never will. And the further we gaze only magnifies the greatness of the Creator/God and how immeasurable is His grace, that He would be mindful of me, an infinitesimal virtual zero in this cosmic playground. We - the faith full - look forward to an end time (end of time) resurrection. We will be like Him - big brother Jesus. This is still a future reality to be experienced by us. By Gods perspective - it is already a fact. He is not bound by our time constraints (or space constraints for that matter). Christs work is finished - it is all accomplished. We are a work in progress. In Christ - God stepped out of eternity (for lack of a better word), and became one of us. Experiencing all that it is to be human. In His humanity He did for us, what we in sinful flesh, our natural inherent character could not. For our screw ups - our screw up nature, the polluted character - God provided a purifier. The process required His death, burial and resurrection. Receiving Christ, is receiving ALL of this. In eternity - it is done. Christs work in time and space - it is done. We are in the process of receiving it - the FAX is in transmission. As the fax comes through we come to understand Christs death is our death. The value of what was actually instituted 2000 years ago in time, in relation to us begins to take on a value - more than that of just an historical event. Christ died for me, and in Him I am dead. As more comes through we realize (not just comprehend - but it becomes REAL) Christ

rose from the dead, the power of the resurrection is not just a religious wishful fantasy, but is a living real NOW fact - IN TIME AND SPACE - God came through. He is still coming through, the fax has not ended. All that is coming through is ours, it is continual communication and relations with the fax sender. Life is being delivered to us. But it is not out there some place, it is right here with and in us. Our experience of the resurrection is a future event. Between our assimilation of the death of Christ as our experience and that future experience of our resurrection - we are not left hopeless and helpless. The power of the resurrection is ours to access and understand and put into real life experiences. "...as Christ was raised up from the dead... even so we should walk in newness of life." Without the resurrection power of God all we are is church as usual. There is more. Turn on your fax machine. Maintain the fax line.

Dead to Sin
Our "old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom.6:6,7). Our old man, old self, unregenerate man was destroyed in the Body of Christ. "That the body of sin might be destroyed" (Rom.6:6), "...in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" (Co1.2:11), "that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom.6:6). Sin is a power. In the natural man, sin dominates us. But we are no longer to serve sin. Sin is a tyrant holding us in slavery, but how do we break away from its power? By dying. By robbing sin of the only thing it has power over our life. We must die. "For he that is dead is free from sin." (Rom.6:7). The natural man, body, soul and spirit, is dead. The world is filled with walking corpses, only they haven't realized it yet. When we were without Christ, we were the "living dead". Bodies without life. This is a pitiful condition, to think you are alive, to believe a "lie of life". Hebrews 9:27 says, "And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" All men must die. We do have a choice as to when we die. When I accepted Christ, I accepted His death, and I died. Now we still see a body, a person in the flesh, which is not as of yet decaying in a coffin somewhere, or burned in the cremation fires. But all that is of that life in the flesh is dead. All the thoughts of that body, generated by the natural man are dead, still to be destroyed, but now dead. If I am overly concerned with my natural body and natural minds thoughts it would prove one thing, I have not died. A person who died to something cannot react to it. The dead can not respond.

I suffer from astigmatism. A visual defect caused by the unequal curving of one or more of the refractive surfaces of the eye, usually the cornea. It prevents light rays lying in certain planes from coming to a focus on the retina, thus producing blurred vision. This is a hereditary trait passed down through my parents and quite literally through my fathers side. Some of my children have inherited this from me. I can remember having eye surgery at the age of five to help improve the condition. I still had to wear glasses for the rest of my childhood years and my eyes were never what they should have been. I can remember cub scout soft ball team. I was the one picked last, on the B team. I can remember standing at the plate anticipating the ball coming across. I would see the pitcher go in motion, I would swing- Strike!. If I wasnt walked, by Gods and the mercy of the pitcher, I never would have made it to first base. My father was rarely a part of my youth activities, or as I can remember, any other part of my life, but one evening he came to a game. They asked him to umpire behind the plate.

My turn came to bat. This was great, surely my dad wouldnt strike me out. Strike three. I turned and looked at my father. I was in shock and saw what appeared a grimace and disappointment of my father. Didnt he know? Couldnt he understand? I couldnt see the ball. From the time it left the pitchers hand to the time it wound up in the catchers mitt, I was blind. All there was, was a blur. Later I was covering third base. A pop fly foul ball was hit just out side the third base line. As best I was able, my eye never left that ball and I ran as fast as I could - stretched out my arm - and too my amazement - I caught it. I rolled to the ground and flung my gloved hand in the air with the ball in it. Foul Ball. What!? I caught that ball! That batter should be out! No one believed I actually caught that ball. They presumed when I rolled on the ground that I had picked it up off the ground. Bob could not have possibly caught that ball. Mankind suffers from astigmatism. I dont mean we ALL have eye problems. We all are the heirs of a condition passed down from generation to generation, from the time of our first father, Adam. That first sin in the garden contracted a spiritual condition that has affected man ever since. The mortal creature man is referred to as sinful flesh because in our natural human (animal if you prefer) being, we are the carriers of spiritual condition known as sin. Sin is not just the bad things we do, the violation of our religious code, whether it be the Ten Commandments or other formulation. Sin is more than the violations, it is a condition. Kind of like HIV. You may be HIV positive, but may never develop full blown AIDS. But you can be sure, you are just as able to pass on that virus. Understand now, we are not talking about corporeal viral and heredity conditions and DNA faults passed from one to another or through generations. We are using metaphor and analogy to paint a picture of invisible spiritual realities. Sin is a power, a force - I suffer from it, we all suffer from it. It is not our fault, but it does influence us and apart from the cure and antidote, dominates our lives. That domination manifests in a plethora of ways, but is ultimately the same - separation from God. Mankind suffers from astigmatism. We cant see. We stumble through life striking out and the balls we catch really dont amount to anything. Yes there are the ones that hit the home runs, and make the double plays. But they have there own sin conditions. Maybe its pride. But God has a prescription to deal with our astigmatism. Stigmata Stigmata - marks resembling crucifixion wounds: marks on the hands and feet resembling the wounds from Jesus Christs crucifixion

So - You better take your medicine Baaaby.Boop Ooop, a Doop!!!

I Reckon
"Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:" (Rom.6:8). This is the basis for all life in Christ. "This is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with Him, we shall also live with Him:" (II Tim.2:ll). Romans 6:10,11 says, "...He (Christ) died unto sin once, but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." Christ's death was in reference to sin. His life was and is in reference to God. We are to "reckon" ourselves to be dead to sin. To "reckon" means 'to keep, continue, to reckon, (consider and treat) ourselves to be dead to sin and living for God. To 'continue reckoning'. This indicates the ever-present possibility of sinning. We are to 'continue reckoning' ourselves alive and (constantly) living for God. Excerpt - NOT AFTER THE FLESH - That Grace Might Reign

Rom 12:1-2 I APPEAL to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties] as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.. Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you]. In my early Christian years my primary influences were Watchmen Nee and Francis Schaeffer. I also read some of the lesser known writings and letters of C. S. Lewis and well into Christian experience John Wimber. Through these writers side trips were made and other influencers of these writers were explored. Other less read but influential writers were, Cornelius Van Til, Carl F. H. Henry, Charles Kraft, John White, and through the IVC discipleship series F.F. Bruce, R.C. Sproul and a few others I cant remember by name. There is a lot of what I consider Charismatic crap that I was forced upon me, as well as Word of Faith baloney that was unavoidable but easily rejected. Some of the Charismatic stuff, may have had a relative value, but the theology was so lax, shoddy and built on Scripture references so far out of context as to be charlatan And I was young, dumb and zealous. But there was one redeeming quality. I was a literal Bible nerd. I wasnt satisfied being led by the nose and told what I needed to believe or how it was to be done. Most studies and courses went too slow for me, so I had little alternative but to get in there and

do it myself. From the training I received traveling with Evangelist Frank Gonzales, I learned how to dig in and use the resources necessary to dissect and decipher the deeper truths too often hidden in the Bible by just cursory reading. This can be frustrating. As you get deeper, and more is revealed, a realization that what is accepted as Christian today, doesnt quite match what is presented in the Scriptures. I dont mean we dont match a legal definition or attempt to apply scripture in the legal do this, do that, dont do this, dont do that sense. There are churches that attempt to do exactly this and that. Bible cookie cutter clones, and God forbid that anyone is out of step. What is accepted as Christian today is Pop Christianity. There are as many genre of Christianity as there are musicians trying to sell you a CD or writers trying to hawk their books. (Im hitting close to home here, I do have a book and CDs to sell. Step into the foyer at the end of the service and Ill autograph you a personal copy- end shameless self promotion- I picked this up from the Charismatics and Word of Faith guys. Still trying to get it out of me). Through my prime influencers there were a few understandings that I have realized as fundamental (that does not make me a fundamentalist - not as it is generally understood anyway). Nee taught about our humanness as body, soul and spirit. The body is the corporal, physical us. Man the animal. The body is the carrier of our soul. The soul is all that gives definition to me as an individual person, my personality - my mind, will and emotions. The body is the physical interface to give expression of me as a person in relation to the rest of creation and other persons. In the depths of my being is my spirit. Too often ignored, or forgotten, or treated as none existent. Too little has been understood about this capacity. Mystics and Physics attempt to venture there. Christians, for the most part, consider it a religious given but prefer to play dumb, rather than upset a comfortable religious status quo. After all, weve been putting this thing together for two thousand years, why disturb things now? Our spirit is our interface with God. Our spirit is who we actually are. Our inner man. That which, in proper order, ties and brings cohesiveness to disjointed and fractured personalities. Separated from God as a result of mans soulishnes, our choice to rely on our natural capacities to understand and relate to creation. In state of dormancy. This is what comes alive when you are born again. God initiates a reconnection. This living spirit inside of us, invigorated by the Holy Spirit, begins a process that is not essentially ours, but includes us. Our body, our soul - mind - will - and emotions, have been functioning independently and are not all to ready or comfortable with this new ordering f things. A struggle often ensues. We sense a prompting. Maybe its an emotional feeling that seems foreign to us. Maybe its something that just lights up and understanding comes in relation to something that was previously just a pain in the ass. Maybe its just knowing, no real cognitive explanation, but you know something is right or wrong in relation to a situation and you must act accordingly. That gut feeling has got to be heeded.

You are in the process of repentance. Its time to begin reckoning differently reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord Our minds, will and emotions are all about to be influenced and affected like they never have been before. Much (not all , but much) in the way the church has tried to do it, through out its history, has been to rely on our soulish qualities, and particularly our cognitive, reasoning abilities to construct systems and theologies to make sense and afford avenues of application. It has not been all bad - but we certainly cannot deny the embarrassments, disasters and just plain carnal savagery justified with human centered Biblical jargon. The emotions, and justifying them, have played into this equally. In contemporary western societies, the emotions have been played down. This is true in the church as well. There is a back set that emotions have been relegated too. It should be expected that as the Spirit is more influential, the emotions will become a more expressive part of our personalities. Dont get too hyper about it. I would expect a certain amount of emotionalism. Of course youd be emotional if youd been bound up for God knows how long. And who are you OH cognitive reasoning mind to judge emotions that God has touched. But, eventually the pendulum will swing back and find its proper place. But the mind is not out of the loop. Begin reckoning dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God Work n it a while.

Mortified
Romans 6:12 says, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body..." and 6:13 says, "Neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God." In Christ we have the power to dethrone sin, and here we are told to do it. Stop handing over the members of your body to sin. This mortal body, this body that will soon turn back to dust from which it came, stop turning it over to sin. Stop giving sin the weapons and tools it can make use of. Turn yourselves over to God, as those that are alive from the dead. Live as having risen from the dead, seeing life from a new perspective. "...present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." (Rom.12:l). "...mortify (put to death) therefore your members which are upon the earth..." (Col. 3:5). I Peter 4:1,2, "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves, likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he should no longer live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." Excerpt - NOT AFTER THE FLESH - That Grace Might Reign How do we deal with sin? Or, more specifically, how do we deal with SIN? Which sin or Sin is Paul dealing with here? sin Individual acts of unrighteousness SIN The Flesh Our natural human condition A power borne in our human character passed to man, since our first parents original sin. the "flesh" - our sinful nature. The nature of man as he naturally is Our reliance on our own human resources - natural body and soul - mind, will and emotions - divorced of relation and

SIN will manifest itself in Individual acts of unrighteousness. SIN will also manifest itself in acts of religious piety, good works and an abundance of other thoughts and acts

that may for most seem of little or no concern. And even as one mans sin notions may in fact be a matter of disobedience to the Spirit of God and expressive of a rebellious human nature, Yet to another, not so convicted, may well be an act of obedience to the one and the same Spirit. We are told "...mortify (put to death) therefore your members which are upon the earth..." (Col. 3:5). Romans 6:13 says, "Neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto SIN: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God." The facts is - we can not deal with the sin issue until God has dealt with the SIN issue. And that is not dealing with it as was completed on the cross, it is dealing with it particularly and individually in us. I can not mortify my own members, but that is how we have sought to accomplish it. Climb on board the sin tread wheel like hamsters spinning and spinning and going and getting no where. Well chase this one for a while and then well chase that one. The never ending circle of life. Dogs chasing our own tails. Cant we ever figure it out, a SIN nature can not deal with sins. But it does present a form of Godliness and it does give us benchmarks by which to measure our progress. But yes we are told to put to death this mortal nature and yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. as those that are alive from the dead We are in process. God is writing His laws on our hearts. The Church, through its various religious systems, has concocted a multitude of ways and methods to do this for God, and virtually all are the manufacture of human reason and rationale to put in order what God would do in the power and person of the Spirit. The Church does not trust what the Spirit would do through and in us. There is a loss of control that is, understandably, uncomfortable. There is potential for all kinds of loose cannons going off and disturbing our decent order. There is even to possibility that we might have to apply ourselves to searching and pondering the Scriptures into areas of doctrine and life that are not readily expounded through our comfortably established theologies. That requires a lot of work. Why, as a leader, a person in a position of responsibility, an overseer of the church, would we want to do that, when after all, weve got it all together? Nonetheless, I can not mortify myself, the Church and its systems cannot deal with my natural sinful condition. God can, and will, if we let Him. He initiates and will perform

His will in usif we get out of the wayif the Church gets out of the way. Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.. Im jumping ahead of myself, and I know Im opening up a BIG can of worms for a lot of people. Were not done yet. Gods not done yet.

Not under the Law, but under grace

Romans 6:14 says something quite profound, we can yield ourselves to God and the parts of our bodies to God as a result of something significant. "Sin will not dominate us, because we are not under the Law, but under grace." What is the difference whether we're under the Law or under grace? Sin is sin, whatever the case may be. Sin received power through the Law. The Law is not sin, but it is through the Law that we come to a knowledge of sin (Rom.7:7). Sin is a very real power, actively at work in our members (Rom.7:13). Without the Law there would be no recognition of sin in us. When we look at the perfect "spiritual" Law of God, we can see ourselves for what we really are, filled with sin, dominated by it and unable to do anything about it (Rom.7:8-21). But as we are, in and of ourselves, does not sin dominate us? Yes it does. But here, Romans 6:14, we are told "sin shall not have dominion over you", and the reason it will not is because we are not under this "Mosaic" Law, but rather under grace. We are under a new law, "grace", "...(being not without law to God, but under the law of Christ)..." (I Cor.9:21), "...ye are also become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another..." (Rom.7:4), "But we are delivered from the law...that we should serve in newness of spirit..." (Rom.7:6). Excerpt - NOT AFTER THE FLESH - That Grace Might Reign The Church does not trust what the Spirit would do through and in us. There is a loss of control that is, understandably, uncomfortable. There is potential for all kinds of loose cannons going off and disturbing our decent order. - Morified The contemporary and for that matter, traditional, Church functions under organizational structures. Typically, (with variations) a Pastor is the man at the top, generally a CEO type figure, supported by a board of Elders, followed by Deacons, Trustees and the rest of the body finding niches as suits their abilities, desires or vision of the overall ministry. This is only a generalization. Some Churches are organized with Elders collectively ruling and a teaching elder functioning as Pastor, some are bound by external relationships to presbyteries, synods, and in the Roman Catholic experience - the Pope. Some Churches are congregationally ruled, and most important matters are subject to a collective vote by the entire body. But generally, allowing for differing historical experience and doctrinal interpretations and body preferences, most Churches define themselves by some such means of ordering themselves. Freedom and Spontaneity in Worship. Freedom is liberty within bounds To anyone who bothers to think a bit it should be evident that there is in the universe no such thing as absolute freedom Unqualified freedom in any area of human life is deadly. In government it is anarchy, in domestic life free love, and in religion antinomianism (The doctrine or belief that the Gospel frees Christians from required obedience to any law,

whether scriptural, civil, or moral, and that salvation is attained solely through faith and the gift of divine grace.). The freest cells in the body are cancer cells, but they kill the organism where they grow. A healthy society requires that it accept a limited freedom. Each must curtail his own liberty that all may be free, and this law runs throughout all the created universe, including the kingdom of God.1 The essence of true religion is spontaneity, the sovereign movings of the Holy Spirit upon and in the free spirit of redeemed man. When religion loses its sovereign character and becomes mere form this spontaneity is lost also, and in its place come precedent, propriety, systemand the file-card mentality. 2 from A Plea to Commission and Release the Artists -Bob Couchenour The Church, is caught between a rock and a hard place. How do we maintain an orderly management of ourselves, the good stewardship of our resources, a proper oversight of the Gospel message entrusted too us and not become enamored by the apparent necessary temporal rules of order that take on a life and power of their own once instigated? Temporal, at one time necessary, Biblically justified, once commonly accepted - religious rules of order - ARE NOT ABSOLUTE. There is a predisposition in man to cling to what we perceive to be our religious comfort zones, that which gives us a sense of comfort and security. Gimme that Old Time Religion. Traditions of the past become our New Testament Christian Talmuds. A list of umpteen million dos and donts, some written as part of the code, some oral and implied, presumed to maintain an orderly relationships between each other and benchmarks to assess our relationship with God. Our Christian faith has become Old Testament Religion Part II. Essentially the same methods and madness, just tack on a few additional improvements brought up by Jesus. Our implementation of the New Covenant really becomes a back slidden methodology rooted in Old Testament Jewish tradition. But "...ye are also become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another..." (Rom.7:4), "But we are delivered from the law...that we should serve in newness of spirit..." (Rom.7:6). For nearly the entirety of its two thousand year existence the church has failed to comprehend and understand, and much less function in relation to a New Covenant newness of spirit. I am not suggesting that God through the Holy Spirit was not active. I am suggesting He was active in spite of our own means and methods. It may well be it is not wholly our fault. Doing Church had relatively few models to draw on. Initially, Old Testament scripture was the most widely distributed and available. Until the New

1 2

A.W. Tozer God Tells the Man Who Cares The Dangers of Too Much Liberty A.W. Tozer Of God and Men

Testament became more widely distributed, and eventually mass produced and translated to the common language, reliance was sought through the established religious powers that be. If the powers that be were in error, so went the Church. Many in Church history, coming to realize the lack of Spiritual dynamic and life within the Church political, became branded as heretic and condemned. Many of our current denominational institutions were the outgrowths of these martyrs. Their spiritual astuteness does not validate our religion. Mans tendency is to latch onto whatever is recognized as of value and not necessarily realize and pass on that dynamic in its original form, but to copy or mimic the real thing. To construct a doctrine, a theology, a creed around the fact of the dynamic truth, but seldom in experience of it as understood initially. So our faith becomes that of creeds and codes, theologically accurate but devoid of the life of the real thing. Two Thousand years and God is not finished with us yet. He has not left us in our ignorance and slaves too our own methods and madness. Eyes are being opened to realize the, rich treasury of His glory to be strengthened and reinforced with mighty power in the inner man by the [Holy] Spirit [Himself indwelling your innermost being and personality]. May Christ through your faith [actually] dwell (settle down, abide, make His permanent home) in your hearts! May you be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love, That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints [Gods devoted people, the experience of that love] what is the breadth and length and height and depth [of it]; [That you may really come] to know [practically, through experience for yourselves] the love of Christ, which far surpasses mere knowledge [without experience]; that you may be filled [through all your being] unto all the fullness of God [may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself]! Ephesians 3:14-19 AMP. This is becoming an increasing experience with many. Experience is not a dirty word. Much of the Church would classify it as such because it doesnt fit their theology. grace is not a dirty word. Here again, much of the Church would classify it as such because it doesnt fit their theology. Or it as redefined as the annotated Code. We are under a new law "grace", "...(being not without law to God, but under the law of Christ)..." (I Cor.9:21), But this new law is not implemented the same as the old law. Our codes, and rules are not the enforcers of this new law, Christ in you IS. I know - this scares the dickens out of Church leaders and powers that be who have not experienced this dynamic. It really can not be explained very well. But it is real. It is not the Code, although I can not say it is the absence of a code - it is God. It is God in us. Now that I have said all this. There is a purpose that the Law serves. It is a serving framework in relation to carnal man in relation to society as a whole, believer and

unbeliever. 1 Timothy 1:9-10 Knowing and understanding this: that the Law is not enacted for the righteous (the upright and just, who are in right standing with God), but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinful, for the irreverent and profane, for those who strike and beat and [even] murder fathers and strike and beat and [even] murder mothers, for manslayers, [For] impure and immoral persons, those who abuse themselves with men, kidnapers, liars, perjurersand whatever else is opposed to wholesome teaching and sound doctrine

From the Heart

Does this new law, grace, give us permission to continue in sin? Again, Paul declares, No! If you can continue to hand yourselves over to sin, realize that you are the slaves of sin, and the result is death. Living in death with the end result being eternal death. Or, through obedience to God, living a life of righteousness whose end is righteousness. "...but ye obeyed from the heart..." (Rom.6:17). This is a basic difference between the Law, as handed down to Moses, and the law of grace, to believe from the heart, to obey from the heart. Obedience coming from the depths of our being. The Law required obedience, perfect obedience that no man could give. The question of faith from the heart is not that which can be governed by a code of Laws, which merely covers areas of conduct before God and men. The quality of faith and obedience required by grace is in reality much deeper. It realizes our natural lacking before God, and our inability to perform His perfect law, but trusts God to provide that which man is unable to do. This is not to condone sin in the flesh or sinning as an acceptable life style, or even such as should be tolerated or excused, but the performance of the law of God is now first accomplished in the heart and not expected to be the result of an accomplishment of our natural life in the flesh, that natural self which we still carry around. By being made free from the Law, we became free from sin, and became the servants of righteousness (Rom.6:l8). Paul, speaking in human terms because of the "weakness of your flesh", because of the poor judgment of those who became the willing instruments of sin, beseeches us to now dedicate ourselves with the same constant devotion, to hand ourselves over as slaves to righteousness and be consecrated to that. Separate ourselves to God. God has called us out, and sees us as separate from the world, yet in the world, but not of the world. We are of God, "...being made free from sin" we have "become servants to God," having "fruit unto holiness" (Rom.6:22).

Do you not know that if you continually surrender yourselves to anyone to do his will, you are the slaves of him whom you obey, whether that be to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience which leads to righteousness (right doing and right standing with God)? But thank God, though you were once slaves of sin, you have become obedient with all your heart to the standard of teaching in which you were instructed and to which you were committed. And having been set free from sin, you have become the servants of righteousness (of conformity to the divine will in thought, purpose, and action). I am speaking in familiar human terms because of your natural limitations. For as you yielded your bodily members [and faculties] as servants to impurity and ever increasing lawlessness, so now yield your bodily members [and faculties] once for all as servants to righteousness (right being and doing) [which leads] to sanctification. Romans 6:16-19

Correct doctrine is not necessarily indicative of correct or authentic experience and practice. This is dependent upon how words are defined in the language used to express a doctrine or premise. Professional religionists, to establish their point, have mastered this as a fine high art in the pulpit, and a precise technical science in writing. Can you imagine - the church - unfettered from any kind of restraints and Law and order and moral ethical code, functioning in society and the world any way we individually damned well please? Murder, rape, and mayhem, no respect for church authority, no respect for civil authority, no consideration for anyone but number one, ourselves. Lying, cheating, embezzling, survival of the fittest, sexual perversion unleashed, post Apocalyptic chaos, Oh Road Warrior Messiah where art thou?, Mad Max save us!!!! Contemplate the size of the Church - Born Again - Evangelical - Fundy - Roman Catholic - Orthodox - or whatever - NO LAWS. Set loose to do ----- whatever. Can you imagine ? - You know something? Church leadership can. Now I am not including all leaders, and I am speaking in generalizations, about an overall condition. And whether leaders have even pondered the effects of removing the laws (implicit or explicit) that restrain us, their practices and teaching and religious systems confirm their buying into the belief that this would be reality. The question very few wish to confront is, Is this in fact the way it would be? The Church, and church leadership, understand carnal man. Maybe its because theyve had as much practice at it as the rest of us, and considering the things being revealed, in some instances, maybe more. In society the Church serves a function. there are three major systems that function in relation to each other that bind society, whether it be world, national or local, but primarily world and national. These are the Economic system, the Political system, and the Religious system. In Revelations 18 there are some things to note and relationships to consider, the triumvirate association of the political system, the religious system and the economic systemAs the political consumes and over throws the religious the economic crumbles Economics - Get Back - Bob Couchenour The Church has the responsibility to provide a theological framework to maintain order. Apart from the Churches ability to provide that higher spiritual impetus to constrain, influence and direct popular morals - it does not serve a purpose in relation to the Political and Economic system. Constantine, in the fourth century, recognized this. This was a primary reason for the Church councils that followed, the adoption of a canonized Scripture - the Bible, and the rejection of non-conformist religious thought. The necessity of one unified church was essential to political control.

The Church has been doing this balancing act ever since. Maintaining political relations and attempting to be the spiritual representative of the crucified-risen Lord. Too often, it was the pragmatic, political realities that were deemed of greater consequence. Things have not changed all that much, but they are changing. We, as the called out ones, the implanted, spiritually vitalized body are beginning to figure it out. The Church has feared the Spirit in us not being able to do what Christ said He would do. Political expediency necessitates leadership taking the bull by the horns and guarantying God. Grace is a wonderful concept - but is it a sure thing? We - in Christ - infused, motivated and enabled by the Holy Spirit are not liberated to an anarchic liberty and license that anything goes. Paul speaking to us in familiar human terms because of your natural limitations, because we still carry this carnal, natural, sinful way of thinking and doing, now yieldas servants to righteousness (right being and doing) [which leads] to sanctification. Grace, Obedience from the heart, rather than obedience to the code, is not an excuse to chuck all that God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit is working in you - us - me. Is our confidence in the code? Or is our confidence in Christ, the Holy Spirit in us? The code cannot sanctify us - Christ can - and will - will we let Him? Is our purpose to maintain a political block? Or is our purpose to be Christ?

Wages vs. Gift

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23. We must commit ourselves. How do we apply ourselves to life? Do we continue as we always have, without a care for the things of God and that which has eternal value? Wages will be paid. Do we remain in our sin, and/or sins? You will be duly compensated. Do we try to live under a Law, whose requirements we cannot possibly meet? Trying to control that which is under the dominion of sin, by our own natural abilities, is sin in itself. It is actually an attempt to perform a work that only God can do. To be precise it is a form of blasphemy. To be sure, the wages of sin is death. "But the gift of God..." We are not excused to continue in sin, without concern of life or how to live to God. But are to "obey from the heart" that form of doctrine "which is according to godliness;"(I Tim.6:3). The gift of God is eternal life; it cannot be earned, but may be experienced and received as a possession. The grace of God has opened the door to this life as a present reality. We must learn to walk in what God has already provided. Excerpt - NOT AFTER THE FLESH - That Grace Might Reign Rom 6:23 For the wages which sin pays is death, but the [bountiful] free gift of God is eternal life through (in union with) Jesus Christ our Lord. Without a lot of commentary or opinion from me, dissect this yourself. THINK - dont rely on me to tell you what its all about. You have in you all that is necessary to realize what God would open up to you through the Holy Spirit. The difference between myself and most who read this blog is that I started this investigation thirty plus years ago. Studying the Scriptures is work. It was never a law or command that was imposed on meit was a passion. That passion cannot be realize by the rule of law, but is embraced as a quality of life. But not my own. I have not ignored commentary by teachers well studied and learned. I have found much contradiction. I eventually realized that my best resource was the Spirit in me, the Bible numerous translations, a few Greek and Hebrew language Lexicon, some background study of Biblical customs and historical context, in the last 12 years or so Computerized Biblical resources which are always expanding, and a drive to keep digging. I can not demand, impose or expect that drive to be a realization of everyone. That is God working in me. In each and everyone of us He will manifest His inborn life in us differently. We must all come to the place of realizing that life, eternal life, and live in relation to it and not by our religious works systems. There are two means or methods - One pays wages - albeit, not exactly the wages you might desire or expect. The reality of missing

something is unavoidable. The other, you can only receive from, tap into, allow to grow, manifest as something you may never have envisioned. Relax, ----------- kick your shoes off, ----------------sit a spell. wages 1 a soldiers pay, allowance. 1a that part of the soldiers support given in place of pay [i.e. rations] and the money in which he is paid. 2 metaph. wages: hire or pay of sin. sin 1 1a to be without a share in. 1b to miss the mark. 1c to err, be mistaken. 1d to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong. 1e to wander from the law of God, violate Gods law, sin. 2 that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act. 3 collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many. Rom 3:23 death 1 the death of the body. 1a that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul and the body by which the life on earth is ended. 1b with the implied idea of future misery in hell. 1b1 the power of death. 1c since the nether world, the abode of the dead, was conceived as being very dark, it is equivalent to the region of thickest darkness i.e. figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin. 2 metaph., the loss of that life which alone is worthy of the name,. 2a the misery of the soul arising from sin, which begins on earth but lasts and increases after the death of the body in hell. 3 the miserable state of the wicked dead in hell. 4 in the widest sense, death comprising all the miseries arising from sin, as well physical death as the loss of a life consecrated to God and blessed in him on earth, to be followed by wretchedness in hell. gift 1 a favour with which one receives without any merit of his own. 2 the gift of divine grace. 3 the gift of faith, knowledge, holiness, virtue. 4 the economy of divine grace, by which the pardon of sin and eternal salvation is appointed to sinners in consideration of the merits of Christ laid hold of by faith. 5 grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit. for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

eternal 1 without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be. 2 without beginning. 3 without end, never to cease, everlasting. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be - It is now. Tap In. life 1 life. 1a the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate. 1b every living soul. 2 life. 2a of the absolute fullness of life, both essential and ethical, which belongs to God, and through him both to the hypostatic logos and to Christ in whom the logos put on human nature. 2b life real and genuine, a life active and vigorous, devoted to God, blessed, in the portion even in this world of those who put their trust in Christ, but after the resurrection to be consummated by new accessions (among them a more perfect body), and to last for ever.

Annulled
The Law, the "Mosaic" law, has authority over a man as long as he lives. The Law 'lords it over', rules over, and has 'legal claims' over a person only for so long as he is alive. It's requirements remain in force as long as one lives under the regime of law (Rom.7:l), but death brings annulment to the former relationship (Rom.7:2,3). We died to the law through the body of Christ (Rom.7:4). Romans 6:2 says, "we died to sin", Romans 6:11 says we are to "reckon" ourselves "to be dead to sin", Romans 6:14 says, "sin shall not have dominion over" us because we are "not under the Law but under grace". Now we are told that we became "dead to the Law through the body of Christ". When Christ died, He fulfilled the Law, it was finished, and every requirement of the Law was met on the Cross of Calvary. The Law had served its purpose, and Christ fulfilled that purpose. The Law "is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless, and disobedient, and the ungodly and for sinners...and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine" (I Tim.l:9,10). Christ died for "the lawless... disobedient... ungodly... sinners..." He died as the Law required, not for His sin, He had none, but as the perfect sacrifice for us. He died and now "liveth unto God" (Rom.6:10). Whatever claim the Law may have had, it was met. The life now to be lived is to God, death brought about annulment to the former claims of the Law. We died with Christ, and in dying with Christ we too died to the Law. Whatever claims the Law may have held on us, they have been annulled, through death. In Christ we have fulfilled the Law. If we are to be married to another, we must die to that former relationship, and it is in a new relationship that we shall "bring forth fruit unto God" (Rom.7:4). If we do not die, we are not released from the Law and are not free to belong to Christ. Excerpt - NOT AFTER THE FLESH - That Grace Might Reign There are essentially two kinds of Christians. There are Legal-religious Christians and there are Spiritual Christians. By Legal I do not mean legalistic, although legalism does have its roots here. By legal I refer to understanding and accepting the work of Christ on the cross and believing in His actual resurrection in time and space as a historical fact, and reliance, by faith on this academic intellectual assent as the basis of their righteousness before God. There is an understanding of the legal ramifications of Christs work for us. As faith is intellectualized, Creeds, Doctrines, Rules of Order and Religious Social Custom becomes the content of Christianity. Yes, an acknowledgement of the risen Lord and Holy Spirit is given a sort of lip service. But Christ is out there, up in heaven, to be known in the sweet by and by. The Spirit occasionally moves among us and we perceive the glory of God, but He never stays. So we pray for Him to fall on us.

As Christ was ascended into heaven after the resurrection that is where He has remained. Allowing for an occasional visit. Spiritual Christians, although not necessarily denying the Creeds and Doctrines, and for that matter even the Bible, recognize that the Bible, the Creeds and Doctrine are not God. They may be containers with information about God, information that God may be delivering to us, purposeful communication to bring us into relationship with God, but they themselves are not God. Spiritual Christians also accept the work of Christ on the cross and believe in His actual resurrection in time and space as a historical fact, and reliance, by faith on this as the basis of their righteousness before God. But that is where the similarities ends. Spiritual Christians have stepped over the line that divides the Old from the New Covenants. Religion and Faith are not adherence to codes and laws imposed to control natural human deficiency. The Code is not the rule of conduct - the Life received and growing is the realization of our faith. As the Spirit in us develops, matures - we change. We think differently, we act differently, it is no longer us, but Christ in us. Rules of Order and Religious Social Custom are not absolute but temporal constructs managing interpersonal relations. That does not imply there is no absolute right or wrong as defined by the character of God, but that law is not defined in words on stone tablets or holy calligraphy. It is now being written on our hearts. And as God authors in us, His laws become Life. Life in us and to those around us. Religion tries to make it happen - God in us makes it happen. We are dead in Christ - to Sin - to the Law - to old religion - to be raised in newness of life to be married to another. It is not just a switching one theology for another. It is Him - In You.

by works of the Law shall no flesh be justified

"When we were in the flesh, the motions of sin, which were by the Law, did work in our members..." (Rom.7:5). As long as we remain in relationship to the Law, sin is the power that will continue to dominate us. The purpose of the Law was to establish God's perfect requirements, to set standards of control over the flesh. The Law made conspicuous the sinful passions of the flesh. It did not remove the flesh, or change our natural sinful character, it merely pointed out what sin was, and gave us a true picture of our condition before God. To remain in relationship to the Law as a means of serving God therefore is to remain in the flesh, and by works of the Law shall no flesh be justified. The Law provides no way, in itself, to be accomplished or fulfilled, that remained for Christ, which He did. But now we are "delivered from the Law... that we should serve in newness of spirit..." (Rom. 7:6). We are delivered from the Law, released from it, discharged. The Law was powerless to remove the sinful passions of our flesh. But now, being released from the Law is made equivalent to being released from the flesh. Under the Law, the believer died with Christ, and being discharged from the Law opens the way to a new relationship. We can now serve God in a new spirit, and no longer in the old way of the letter, which we could not possibly do. In place of a legalism which enforces statutes, there is a spirit of love and dedication. Excerpt - NOT AFTER THE FLESH - That Grace Might Reign At almost 23 years old, I had just spent the last six plus years pursuing musical ambitions that brought me into heavy involvement with virtually everything that has given the Rock music industry the infamy associated with it. Initially, I began this quest ignorant and nave. I did, originally have a simplistic Christian worldview, but was not well grounded. I was a lamb among the wolves and no place to learn but the streets. The school of hard knocks is costly, and potentially deadly, but you do learn. But lessons learned do not necessarily produce character in keeping with Spiritual values. In some respects Darwinian social analysis does prove itself a workable theory. The survival of the fittest. The larger the ego, the sense of importance of ones self, over and above another, regardless of the real objective evidence to substantiate this perception, goes a long way convincing others that you may really have something. Its all in the image, and the more you sell yourself on your own value the better you can Bull Shit others. Bob Couchenour - ROCK STAR - Ego trip extraordinaire - Buuullll Shit. This was my state of being coming to accept Christ. These were the years that young mens characters are formed, occupations are enter into, the process of growing into a mature adult should be completed. I was a spiritual basket case. Not a nut - but six years pissed away. That doesnt mean I hadnt become a fairly decent musician. It means my

ground zero was about six stories below ground level. If God grades - I sure hope He grades on a curve. Four months after coming to Christ (or Him coming to me if you prefer), I was traveling with an evangelistic team. Not that I was the most mature Christian example to be representing Christ or the Church, but God placed me in relationship to a mature man, an evangelist, who had the Christ character to minister to me. It was a God thing and I wont try to explain it. I was the hippy freak amidst the cultural Christian goody two shoes. Dont get too bent out of shape, its just a figure of speech and we really liked each other. But I was the one with something to prove. We had very little free time. Disciplined prayer times, group Bible study, music rehearsals, street evangelism, Junior and Senior High School drug education assemblies, meetings almost every night, traveling on a team bus, USA, Canada, Mexico, and amid all this regular activity, I found it necessary to study more and harder than all the rest. Rest was not an option - becoming SUPER CHRISTIAN was what it was all about. It became a game to impress people with the amount of Bible reading I did. To raise questions in Bible study and argue a possible dotting of an i or crossing of a t. I was on my way. A couple years later, away from the team, married and settled into regular church life, I was introduced to the writings of Francis Schaeffer. At a time when the Evangelical church was getting on board the Pro Life - Anti Abortion bandwagon, his How Should We Then Live and Whatever Happened to the Human Race books and videos were being circulated and taught widely within evangelicalism. I was so taken by his Biblical approach to social issues that I had to dive into more of His writing. And dive I did. You could say I became a disciple of Francis Schaeffer. I still highly regard the Biblical conclusions He comes to in much of His thought. I had learned a new word, apologetics. And I began to assimilate Schaeffers approach to apologetics, to the place that I found a book by one of Schaeffers mentors, Defense of the Faith by Cornelius Van Til. To my amazement reading Van Til made sense of some of Schaeffers thought, that I had been wrestling with. During this same period I was doing my study of the book of Romans. I even taught the material over a nine month period around 1980. One thing was certain - head wise - I was full of it. In the apologetics of Francis Schaeffer and Cornelius Van Til, as Biblically grounded as it may be, and I do highly respect both men and their contributions in contemporary Church thought and life, I do have to take issue with a basic premise of their approach to apologetics. That premise being that Christianity is a religion of the book.

Now there is a relative truth to this. But the way it has been encouraged and interpreted implies that the book, the Bible is the foundation, and center of all our faith. Reverence for the book as it relates within a Reformed framework of religious thought has taken precedence over what is communicated in the book, or the God who is the subject of the book. Christ, of the book - is the center and foundation of our faith. But not the book itself. In preference to maintaining the reverential position of the book, as a tool to argue a Reformed theology, the content of the book has been ignored, except as interpreted through a Reformed theological grid. The ability to argue theology has become the measure of spirituality. Little regard is paid to the possibility of certain misinterpretations and misapplications of scripture as reinterpretation would upset the whole cart, and an entire rethinking of what Christ is actually at work at in the Church would be necessary. And it would imply we had gotten it wrong or had missed something. Guess what church? For the most part - we have gotten it wrong. And all our apologetic methods and respect for the Bible doesnt make it right, if it isnt Christ in you. Any egotist can set out to be a Bible rock star. And we have the methodology to make it work - but it wont be Christ. He is puffed up with pride and stupefied with conceit, [although he is] woefully ignorant. He has a morbid fondness for controversy and disputes and strife about words, which result in (produce) envy and jealousy, quarrels and dissension, abuse and insults and slander, and base suspicions, And protracted wrangling and wearing discussion and perpetual friction among men who are corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, who imagine that godliness or righteousness is a source of profit [a moneymaking business, a means of livelihood]. From such withdraw. I grant you, this verse is out of context - it is the attitude that needs considered. We can use our Bibles as legal weapons to cut and destroy those we wish to communicate with. The Bible is not the sword of the Spirit. That is another misquoted and misinterpreted verse. The Bible did not exist, when those words were written. We can serve Christ in many ways in the flesh. We can set up our own new Christian Laws. That does not make it Christ in you. To remain in relationship to the Law as a means of serving God is to remain in the flesh, and by works of the Law shall no flesh be justified. There is really only one way to serve Christ - that is Christ in you.

The Law
Was the Law Sin? Nothing is wrong with the Law, though we are discharged from it. The Law shows us what sin is. Without the Law sin was not apparent to us. Without an understanding of the Law there is no consciousness of sin and without this understanding the conscience was clear. But becoming conscious of sin, there is a realization of spiritual death. Sin took the Law as a base of operations; it first deceives and then kills. This order shows how tricky sin is and what its objective was. The Law is holy, righteous and good (Rom.7:12). "Was that which is good made death unto me?" (Rom.7:13). No! Because man is a sinner, he cannot recognize sin for what it is. "But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me by that which is good..." (Rom.7:13 NIV), in order that sin might become sinful to an extraordinary degree. "The Law is spiritual" (Rom.7:14). The Law is caused by or filled with the (divine) Spirit, (Paul condemns the Law only on one ground - legalism). "...but I am carnal..." (unspiritual). Romans 7:14 through 20 gives as clear a picture of man's predicament as may be found. The recognition of the divine nature of the Law, and man's total inability to make it a reality, in practical everyday living. Even in his agreement with the good nature of the Law, he still finds himself doing actions, which are contrary to the Law. And although not waiving his own responsibility, he must recognize that it is sin that causes his "self" to become false. There is an absence of good in the sphere of the "flesh". Where the flesh is powerful, the will to do good becomes powerless. There is no achievement in doing good, but an awareness of evil activities. In man, apart from any outside help, there is a total inability to accomplish "the good that I would". And that which I do, is but sin dwelling in me, deceiving me, making me captive. The desire to do good is met by a vigorous opponent, sin. This is called a "law" or principle because of the regularity of its action, and is every bit as much a law as any law of physics science might produce as theory, and it is more so, because this is the law of man's nature, revealed by God, and it is not a theory. Excerpt - NOT AFTER THE FLESH - That Grace Might Reign

Begin Excerpt - No Other Gods - Moses, Friend of God, Rock Star - Bob Couchenour (the Get Back Series)

What constitutes an idol? An idol is any thing that comes between you and God. We in the Evangelical Christian Church are not immune from this possibility and in a vast percentage of the church, a reality. The Israelites did not want to meet with God in personal intimate relationship. They preferred that Moses be their intermediary. Moses was the friend of God, Moses was the prophet of God, Moses was faithful to the calling of God, but it was Gods preference to have relation with His chosen people face-to-face, but this was rejected by the people of Israel. In the place of relationship they chose

religion. They chose a man to speak for God and to petition for them before God. In essence, and to the succeeding generations of the people of Israel, Moses became an idol. You shall have no other gods before or besides Me. You shall not make yourself any graven image [to worship it] or any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; You shall not bow down yourself to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me. Moses, Friend of God, Rock Star. To the succeeding generations of Israel religion became their most notable characteristic. Yes God remained faithful to the promise to the patriarchs, but this had little to do with the faith of the people. Gods promises are to be counted on because God is true. Human deficiency notwithstanding, God is true. The Law, as handed down to Moses and delivered to the people became an idol. The Law was good, God given. But the Law alone is not a substitute for the intimacy of relationship with the living God. The Law was the system, The Law was religion. The Law sought to manage the flesh with the flesh. With out an influx of and influence of the Spirit in man in personal intimate relation with God, the Law was sinful flesh trying to control sinful flesh, the blind leading the blind. Flesh- the carnal sinful nature of man divorced of relation with God. This is the essence of religion, trying to please God, or appearing to please God, without relationship with God. We in the Western Evangelical Christian community are subject to much the same condition. It is not a Jewish or Gentile or Pagan problem, it is a problem of sinful human nature. The carnal nature of man resists and contends with Spiritual influences. The Flesh does not want relationship with God. The fleshly, carnal nature does not want to relinquish control. The flesh has its own agenda and that agenda is not compatible with the Spirit of God. But religious systems that can be established, controlled and even manipulated are convenient devises to harness carnal passions and legally maintain an appearance of godliness. Religion does not need the Spirit of God. Religion does not need God. face the facts, we all have a religious nature, even the most spiritual amongst us. We all try to make sense of what God is working in us and this we manage as a personal system of ordering our thoughts. Some are more complex than others. Some contain vast amounts of facts and figures, but we all try to make sense of it. The problem arises when I, or any one else, decide too impose my more spiritual religious system on some one else because my system has been determined to be of some greater value, whether academic or metaphysically mystical. Even on personal levels, our personal religious systems become idols. We receive from God. Then construct an altar around what we have received. And God is soon replaced by what He has manifested to us.

we prefer the security of the religious system . We are satisfied with someone elses personal system rather than meeting God, one on one.
End Excerpt - No Other Gods - Moses, Friend of God, Rock Star - Bob Couchenour (the Get Back Series)

We see here but the beginning of a pattern of events which is repeated over and over again through the history of the church. When that which is revealed of God is crystallized into a tradition, rigidly held and propagated with purely human energy, it becomes an impenetrable barrier to the truth. The life of the Spirit can never be confined within the framework of religious tradition. John W. Kennedy The Torch of the Testimony

thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord

"For I delight in the Law of God after the inward man:" (Rom.7:22). This is a spiritually healthy response to the Law of God. The law of his mind (v.23) along with the inward man represents the true self controlled by the being of God. The "true self" agreed with the Law of God. But, the law of sin at war with the law of his mind brings man into captivity, making him a prisoner. Sin in our members, in our natural selves, our bodies, minds not submitted to God, is a powerful force. We alone cannot defeat it. Of our own ability we cannot overcome it. We are its prisoners. "0 wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom.7:24). "...while we carry this body about with us, we shall be troubled with corruption;" Our "old man, the corrupt nature, which tends to death, that is the ruin of the soul..." is like "a dead body, the touch of which was by ceremonial law defiling". It is as though we have a dead body tied to us, which we must carry about, a weight which holds us down, an odor which nauseates, and rot that infects even that which lives. This is us. Who shall deliver me? "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom.7:25).

Remember back a ways I mentioned that Paul was a lawyer in the Pharisaic Jewish and classic Roman traditions. In a sense it seems like he has taken the long way to get here, but we have to be aware of what Pauls purpose and goal to accomplish is here. The Gospel is the Good News of Christs fulfillment of all the Law of Moses required. This was a legal transaction that had implications to mans continuing and changing relationship with God. It was not just a lawyer endeavoring to impress a jury with an eloquent argument. This was Paul examining all the evidence, getting all his ducks lined up in a row, and systematically proving the transition from an Old Covenant mind set to a New Covenant mind set. The word paradigm shift has been over used of late, but that is what exactly what Paul is walking us through. The Jewish mind, the mind steeped in the Law, the mind understanding the Holiness of God needs these issues dealt with. The Gentile mind could hardly care less, which may well include a lot of us, but we need it as well. We need it because it would be our tendency to fall into the same errors as the Jews, once we get a hold of a few basic doctrines, and turn it into a religion. There is a necessity for all of us - Jews and Gentiles - to have these religious notions shot to hell. Through Romans 6 we find there are a few things required of us.

What is required of Me now that I am in Christ

Shall we continue in sin - No - we are dead to sin - We who share in Christ Jesus - share

in his death - We were baptized, so that we would live a new life, as Christ was raised to life - the persons we used to be were nailed to the cross with Jesus so that our sinful bodies would no longer be the slaves of sin - sin doesnt have power over dead people surely as we died with Christ - we will also live with him - Christ died for sin once and for all. - now he is alive, and he lives only for God. - you must think of yourselves as dead to the power of sin - But Christ Jesus has given life to you, and you live for God - Dont let sin rule your body or let any part of it become a slave of evil - Give yourselves to God, as people who have been raised from death to life. - You are ruled by Gods kindness and not by the Law. - Does it mean we are free to sin - NO - you are slaves of anyone you obey - you are set free from sin and are slaves who please God - You used to be slaves of sin. But I thank God that with all your heart you obeyed - you must make every part of your body serve God, so that you will belong completely to him. - you are Gods slaves. This will make you holy and will lead you to eternal life. - You are now part of the body of Christ and are dead to the power of the Law. - You are free to belong to Christ, who was raised to life so that we could serve God - the Law no longer rules over us We are like dead people, and it cannot have any power over us - Now we can serve God in a new way by obeying his Spirit, and not in the old way by obeying the written Law the Law is spiritual. But I am merely a human, and I have been sold as a slave to sin In Romans 7, we come to understand we are released from the Law as a means of accomplishing this. We also come to facing the facts that - we are totally incapable to do diddly squat. Aint no way we can make it happen!!!

The Problem - I am totally incapable of doing it

I dont understand why I act the way I do. I dont do what I know is right. I do the things I hate. Although I dont do what I know is right, I agree that the Law is good. So I am not the one doing these evil things. The sin that lives in me is what does them. I know that my selfish desires wont let me do anything that is good. Even when I want to do right, I cannot. Instead of doing what I know is right, I do wrong. And so, if I dont do what I know is right, I am no longer the one doing these evil things. The sin that lives in me is what does them. The Law has shown me that something in me keeps me from doing what I know is right. With my whole heart I agree with the Law of God. But in every part of me I discover something fighting against my mind, and it makes me a prisoner of sin that controls everything I do. What a miserable person I am. Who will rescue me from this body that is doomed to die? Thank God! Jesus Christ will rescue me. So with my mind I serve the Law of God, although my selfish desires make me serve the law of sin. Who shall deliver me? "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord I have been inferring certain Spiritual truths until now. The truth is there, although not explicitly stated. Without these inferences Romans 6 & 7 could be depressing, and if not understood in relation to the truths coming in chapter 8, can lead to a legalistic interpretation and application of the Bible. I believe this is the state of much of the church today. We are trying to apply Romans 6 to our lives without the truth of Romans 8. And we end up with a Christian experience resembling the last half of Romans chapter 7.

But now - we will start to get into the good stuff. Thus far we know that we died with Christ. This death was in reference to sin. We are now to live a new life as a result of our death with Christ, and this life shall be lived in the same power that raised Christ from the dead. The death of Christ was the fulfillment of the Law, and by fulfilling the Law Christ died to the Law and likewise we now are dead to the Law to serve God in a newness of the Spirit. We had to die to the Law, because the Law only gave us a knowledge of sin, not the means to overcome it. We are totally unable to serve God of our own natural selves, no matter how well we may acknowledge the goodness and divine nature of God's law. We have a new life to live, how are we to do it? We have already seen that of ourselves there is no good thing in us that can perform that which is good. But thank God, "through Jesus Christ our Lord". We shall live that new life, eternal life. We shall "not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom.8:l,8:4). Excerpt - NOT AFTER THE FLESH - That Grace Might Reign

There is therefore
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus..." Romans 8:1. There is "no adjudging guilty of any wrong" (AMP) for those who 'are in' Christ Jesus. "He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned 'already'" John 3:18. Upon accepting Christ, by faith, which is obedience from the heart, we passed from a state of "already" condemnation to that of righteousness before God. Apart from Christ we were already condemned. But now "in Christ" there is no condemnation. Jesus Christ was condemned in our place, and there no longer is any punishment, because Jesus Christ bore our punishment. The NIV puts it like this; "...there is no condemnation..." v.1, "because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." Rom. 8:2. We have been released from "the law of sin and death." It is still active in the flesh, it did not go anywhere, but we, by accepting Christ and His accomplished work, in regard to the Law and sin, have passed from death to life. "...the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." In accepting Christ we died to the old law, the law of sin and death which is active in our flesh and the Law of Moses which was a pointer to the sin of the flesh. To these laws we died. A new law has released us and now demands our attention. As we found ourselves bound to the power of the law of sin, and knew sin as a dominating reality through the Law of Moses, now we may and shall experience the reality of the new "law of the Spirit of life," the "law of our new being."

the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death 1974, new (immature, dumb) Christian, committed to a year on an Evangelistic team, ignorant of whatever may have been a cultural Christian norm. Devotions?? Huh - whats that? Quiet time? Time alone with the Lord? Scripture memorization? Two hours prayer time!?!? On my knees Good Lord what did I get myself into? I am one who believes that boot camp training is a good thing to prepare a young person to serve in a military situation. And for a person who has never been subjected to much in the way of a structured lifestyle, a boot camp program may be good to instill some new disciplines, providing there is actual purpose and they can be maintained beyond the boot camp environment. Becoming disciplined to memorize scripture, this verse the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death was the first one I actually applied myself too. Of course, when it came out of my mouth it was the law of the life in the Spirit set me free

from the law of sin and death. A smile came across my Evangelist mentors face as his eyes met with the eyes of another senior team member, also grinning - That works they chimed together. Now, that might not work for some verses. And I do not endorse sloppy, contextually mindless verse popping, to argue a point. But proper scripture knowledge and application is a discipline not to be dismissed. And it can work - with the proper motivation. NO, that is not really correct. It isnt with the proper motivation, it is with the proper motivator. There is one thing, maybe two (maybe three), I learned from all the discipline on the Evangelistic team. In my own strength, on my own, all that discipleship, knee knocking, enforced Bible times, pseudo-spiritual, Bible-spitting religious shit sucked. But - when God wanted to open something up, in His word, or through a friend, when I was open, and when He chose - mysteries of Heaven would open up. The same was true evangelizing. If it was to do it - because thats what we do, or to argue someone into heaven because someone was watching me, and it was expected of me after all, why else was I there? Didnt I really have a burden for lost souls. But I was an honorable man. I was committed to a year. Personal honor - faithfulness - traits born in the spirit counted for a lot more than my personal discomfort. But turn me loose in a high school drug assembly - get out of the way - - the Spirit was going to move, and you can never tell what was going to come out of my mouth, I didnt know - God did. We engross ourselves with all kinds of discipleship programs. Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war - pseudo-spiritual, Bible-spitting religious Discipleship doesnt make disciples - Relationship - Intimacy with the Disciple maker does.

in the likeness of sinful flesh

The "Law", "Mosaic Law", prescribed a way of life which men in the flesh could not follow. All the "Law" had to work with was man in his natural, sinful, flesh. It was powerless to help man in accomplishing that which was demanded to fulfill its requirements of righteousness. It was merely a perfect code of ethics, of rules, a perfect standard from God. Man, as man, was powerless to perform that which the Law demanded. But God, "sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh...condemned sin in the flesh:" Rom. 8:3. In sending Christ in the "likeness" of sinful flesh, God condemned sin. Jesus Christ came in the "likeness" or guise of sinful flesh. He did not come in "sinful flesh". We must see this clearly. God did not condemn the flesh. God created our flesh. God did not condemn that which is a natural function of the flesh, natural desires, natural drives, that which is human as God made us. What God condemned is "sin in the flesh." That "law of sin and death" which dwells in our flesh is what God condemns. Our flesh, apart from God, always tends toward self. Always tends towards self-preservation, towards what benefits the self, what is of best advantage for the self. Even in consideration of eternal things, the mind of the flesh will rationalize such things as self-denial, self-sacrifice and self-abasement in terms of future benefits to be received and experienced in some future life, or what will be advantageous for the future self. Self remains on the throne. Jesus Christ came in the "flesh," flesh like ours, and was a true "man," but not a sinful man. He did not live according to the "law of sin and death," the tendency towards self. He lived to God. He did not do but that which he received of the Father. John 5:10 says, "I can of mine on self do nothing." and John 8:28, "I do nothing of Myself, but as the Father has taught me..." Jesus lived by the power of the "Spirit of life." In so doing, in the life He lived in the flesh, human flesh, the same flesh you and I are partakers of, and the death He died as propitiation for sins of man committed in the flesh, He condemned sin in the flesh. What the Law could not do, God did through His Son Jesus Christ.

We, as finite creatures, formed in the likeness of God, are bound by time and space. The dimensions we move in, forward and back, left and right, up and down, from what was to what will be, these are the confines of our natural lifes experience. There are theories, and they are theories, extrapolations attempting to quantify planes of being existent beyond common human or natural dimensions. I do not deny there may be relative truths to be gleaned to expand our understanding of the workings of Gods creation. But I have to assert that these truths, although broadening our temporal perception of the universe, are not in and of themselves absolute in our understanding of

God or His creation. If you find them authoritative or absolute, I can only conclude your God is too small. Dimensions, planes of existence, a parallel universe, the first through seventh, eighth or ninth heavens, spiritual alter-domains - places to exist, to dream, to imagine, what we can not experience here and now. Alternatives to what is. Christ - stepped into time and space. The same reality of here and now that we enjoy, or merely endure, Christ entered into, experienced, lived a sinless life, was crucified, died, buried and was raised to life, and in so doing - in our universe of existence - dealt with sin in our flesh. Gnostic teaching would have us accept that all that is of the natural world of existence is sinful and fallen, the only thing that is real is the spiritual, this cosmic ethereal other manifested to redeem us from a depraved creation. Not so. The flesh has been equated as sinful, not because that is the way God made it, but that is the condition we inherit through natural human parentage. Our ancient ancestral parents dropped the ball - not God. We have been stumbling through creation as a result of their error, and its transmission in our natural character, from their action in time and space past. Prior to mans (and womans) cognitive decision to disobey, humankind enjoyed a relation with God transcending time/space boundaries. Yes, our finite existence was realized in time and space, but our spiritual knowledge was resourced in eternity - no beginning - no end - God. I Am. Not another dimension. Dimensions are only convenient for finite definition. God transcends dimension. God defines dimension. God is. This was mans Spiritual life. In Christ - in our flesh - flesh created by God - in time and space this eternity and being of God is now restored. In our spiritualizing of the things of the Spirit, redefining religious notions of the God out there on cloud nine - in the heavenlies, constructing imaginary planes of existence and desiring to step into the out there somewhere, we are missing the God of here and now eternity in time and space - God with and IN us. Religious, spiritual sounding, escapists - running from God, dissatisfied with the cards God has dealt us. Time and space doesnt cut it, there must be a better reality - rapture me - take me to the next level!!! No more Lord - Help me KNOW you here and now. Let eternity flow through me into and too your creation.

walk...after
"That the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom. 8:4. God pronounced judgment on sin, in the flesh of Christ, in order that the requirements of the Law might be fulfilled in us who are not walking, living in accordance with the flesh, but in accordance with the Spirit. What does it mean to "walk...after"? To walk means "to walk about, to make ones way, to progress- to make due use of opportunities, to regulate ones life, to conduct ones self, to live." The requirements of the Law are fulfilled in us. In passing from death to life through Christ Jesus, the requirements of the Law have been met, and we are righteous before God. But here in Romans 8:4, it says, "the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us..." "...might be fulfilled..." What is being said? Are the requirements of the Law met? Or is it something that "might" happen? The requirements of the Law to be fulfilled are that which comes as a result of our "walk" after the Spirit. In the natural man, without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the best we can do is to try an attempt at controlling the flesh. We are unable to control our carnal nature left to ourselves. As long as we take it upon ourselves to try, we will fail in the attempt, and consistently come under the condemnation of the Law that governs the natural man. When, in Christ, we relinquish the responsibility of meeting the requirements of the Law to God and Christ, we die to the Law that condemns our failure and attach ourselves to "the law of the Spirit of life." No longer under the Law, a law of governing the flesh, we set ourselves to follow the "new law", the law of the "Spirit." In our life under the Law, we could not fulfill the Law. But now, following after the Spirit, walking after the Spirit, the Law becomes fulfilled in our experience. To "walk" means to "make ones way", to walk means "to progress." We, as we grow in the Spirit, are to progress in the Spirit, to make our way in spiritual truth and reality. What does it mean to be "born again"? When someone is "born" they are not a mature person. There are years of growth, feeding and nurturing that produce a mature person. And so it is when we are "born again". These righteous requirements of the Law "might" be fulfilled in us, might become a part of our human experience, as we progress in our walk after the Spirit. Spiritual maturity does not happen instantaneously. Excerpt - After The Spirit - That Grace Might Reign The great fallacy of a Church whose final appeal is to its organization for the maintenance of its life is that it is completely out of consonance with the very basis of life in the Spirit. Human organization can deal only on the basis of law, and has jurisdiction only over the outward acts of a man, not over his inner thoughts and motives. There is certainly a place for law in the church, but it is always subservient to the life of the Spirit. The church is the sphere of the rule of Christ who dwells in the midst of His people. Where subservience and devotion to Him remain the basic factors and rule of the church's

life, His rule reaches down into the spirit and soul of a man which are the source of all his actions. Where this rule of the Spirit is denied, corruption is the inescapable result. How prone is man to deny this law of spiritual life and try to manage the work of God in his fleshly, efficient way, is one of the great lessons of Church History. The Torch of the Testimony - John Kennedy Maturity in Spiritual Life is not an instantaneous, miraculous, judicially declared event or pronouncement - it is a process. It is not the acquisition of academic or scholastic skills, methods, means or natural human resources. These may be tools to apply Spiritual values, but they are not the Life in and of themselves. Spiritual Life is the recognition and exercise of the Gods character inborn through divine intrusion into our being. We are continually but through a process of dying to our old nature to come alive to the divine nature now resident in us. And in this process it is God, not our will or desire that is the perpetrator of this development. We can resist it and fight it, or we can cooperate in it, but we are not the cause of it. Through out the history of the Church, we have taken it upon ourselves to circumvent the process and jump to the end of what we perceive to be maturity for the sake of our own contrived efficiency. This is so engrained in the thinking of the church that we have even lost all notion that there is a reality to the Spirit and so sacrificed our Spiritual lives for Religious expediency and right doctrine. Remember the movie Hook? Robin Williams stars as a grown up Peter Pan and Dustin Hoffman as the infamous Captain Hook. Granny Wendy Darling must convince the middle-aged lawyer Peter Banning that he was once the legendary Peter Pan. Peter is off to Neverland to save his children from Captain Hook. Along the way he rediscovers the power of imagination, of friendship and of magic. * We, in the church, and on a broader scale as contemporary society, are like Peter Banning. Our values and world view are built on the foundation of naturalistic evolution based predation. Our political, economic and even religious nature of the church are the out workings of humanistic and rationalistic, spiritually divorced means and resources. I am not saying we are in actuality a bunch of pagans. Although there may be circumstances that I am not pointing to that this may actually be the case. I am saying that as products of humanistic systems of education and the state the church entered into as a reaction to and response to the Age of Enlightenment and the Age of Reason, we have become more like them, than they becoming more like us. The church is struggling to recoup. I do believe there were religious superstition and excess that needed purged from the church during this period, but we have in some respects tossed the baby out with the bath water. There is now a new superstition we must take issue with, the superstition that we can do it. * Like Peter Banning, we, the church, have forgotten. We as a general culture, have rejected the notion that spiritual dimensions exist. We are left with rational devises and the limited recourses of logic. That which I can conceive and justify, is. I think, therefore I am. I Am. I-----Am. I-------- *

We need to realize that we have the ability to soar with eagles. Its not rational or logical. And probably will never be done the same way twice in a row. But there is a creative resource we can call on and tap into, listen to, hear and manifest. Often, people wont know what to think, or just how to receive it. Art is always new, and challenges the status quo. * What has God called you to? Play it safe, or Play by faith. Come on Peter, you can fly. Its not magic, but it is Spiritual.* * - excrpts - Power or Props - Bob Couchenour - The Get Back Series

To what do you direct your mind?

"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." Rom. 8:5. Here is a simple test, "In your seeking to please God, with what do you occupy your mind?" What do you mind? Let us consider what it means to "mind" something. To "do mind" is to "direct one's mind to a thing, to seek or strive for, to seek one's interest or advantage, to be for one's party, side with him." To what do you direct your mind? What do you seek or strive for? They that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh. How do you seek to please God? Do you count how many times you sinned today, and figure it is less than yesterday, and therefore you must be living more spiritual a life than yesterday? And praise the Lord you're getting better? If so, you have set your mind on the flesh. Your mind is occupied with the things of the flesh, the sins of the flesh and the Law governing the flesh, and by works of the Law shall no flesh be justified. Do you measure your "spirituality" by the fact that you feel better today than yesterday or at least better towards God than yesterday? You are minding the things of the flesh. Your feelings are a function of your flesh. Not necessarily evil, but produced as a physical function of the flesh, and cannot be a trusted guide to spiritual in-tuneness. Do you consider that you live a relatively "good" life, do so many good deeds and therefore have an earned position in the kingdom of God? You have your mind set on the things of the flesh. It is not by works or merit that God saved us, nor is it a matter of works that earns us a place of spiritual maturity or rewards. This matter of works must be qualified though. Works are not the means by which spirituality is achieved, but rather works are the result of maturity produced by the Holy Spirit. One cannot set his mind to s task and determine to do this or that for the Lord and thereby determine in his mind to be mature or measure his spiritual maturity by his works. Works of lasting value are those that the Holy Spirit has instilled in the heart of one and are the result of maturity as produced by the leading of the Holy Spirit. Do you simply trust that God has got everything under control, and pay no concern or attention to that which may be "spiritual", believing that you have your ticket to heaven, have climbed on board your fire escape from hell. Your mind is set on the flesh. Our minds cannot be occupied with nothing. There is no neutral state of spiritual concern. For the one who is truly born of God there is a deep inner longing for the truth of God to be a living reality in their life. The control of the flesh may be quite a hindrance to the experience of that spiritual life, but where sin abounds, grace even more abounds. As long as we seek to please God, to serve God in our flesh we will know nothing but defeat; our Christian experience will be a most miserable life. We must turn our minds off the flesh, away from the things of the flesh and towards the things of the Spirit. Excerpt - After The Spirit - That Grace Might Reign

If indeed our soul is a composite character of our mind, will and emotions as has been generally understood, and in particular taught in the line of thought of Watchman Nee, then to lean on any one particular soulish quality as the barometer of Spiritual measurement and insight is no more Divine than flipping a coin or shooting craps. There are Christians who rely entirely on their intellect, their minds to be the discerning element to understand God and Spiritual truths. There are Christians who have come to realize there is more to Spiritual Life than a purely cognitive reason based religion and feel God in the depths of their being. there are Christians who could care less whether it is understood or felt as long as it is obeyed and live their Christian lives willing their way through it. Bible based cognitive religious intellectualism in recent years, and particularly in Western cultures has had a dominant influence. Charismatic and Pentecostal emotionalism has been making strides, often defying cognitive explanation. Will based asceticism, not appealing to either cognitive or emotional desires and perceived need, would seem to be the loser in the souls race to express spirituality. We generally lean or have a preference to one or the other of these soul qualities as a primary means of relating to the Spirit. The problem we face, is that all these natural human soulish qualities are fallen, in their natural state. As God introduces His Spiritual birthing, and renewal of our being, in our spirits, each of these soul functions are effected. A person normally accustomed to reasoning their faith may find an emotional nature evolving that had been buried. I would expect that particularly in Western cultures, where the repression of emotion has been the norm, a greater emotional reference to the things of the Spirit would be more noticeable. By this I do not refer to a Charismatic or Pentecostal expression of emotionalism, but an inward realization of character quality and empathy, possibly difficult to express cognitively, but none the less real, adding a balance to human personality. I might also expect a strengthening of the will to simply realize the right and determine to act accordingly, possibly defiant of cognitive rationalizations to the contrary or not feeling - simply to do the right. Ultimately - I would expect a balance of mind, will and emotion, but dont ask me to define what that may be for any individual, I dont know. But if God is at work renewing our character after the image of the first born among many brethren, He is working on the entirety of my being and not allowing any one soul trait exclusivity of dominance of my being. A few years ago, God took me on an emotional roller coaster ride. There are motion picture scenes that often capture a feeling or emotion in life's experience that when viewed by others communicate a common emotional identification. the "Mashed Potatoes" scene in 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind'. The Richard Dreyfuss character,

'Roy', had been experiencing strange, unexplainable encounters with alien spacecraft. The aliens had so affected him that the pursuance of the meaning of the encounters became an obsession. In trying to construct a meaning behind it all he became an emotional wreck. In the early stages of this pursuit, sitting with his family at dinner, he began piling up the mashed potatoes. Tears running down his face, staring into the mound of potatoes he was sculpting, it was obvious to the rest of the family dad was acting pretty weird. After a few moments, realizing he was being watched by the rest of the family, Roy looks up, puts down the potato spoon, try's to collect his composure, and attempts to reassure the family that everything is All Right. This was my condition in the summer of 2000, when the Lord grabbed me, took me on an emotional roller coaster ride, began twisting my thinking, turned me into a wet rag and hung me out to dry. I found myself at dinner, an emotional wreck, weeping without reason (or what seemed without reason), looking up at my boy Jason and saying, "Everything is all right. Dad is OK. This is a good thing that is happening." The Lord was moving in, doing His thing and changing mine. Earlier in this same day when the Lord began His reconstruction of Bob, I would most emphatically say His timing was lousy. But it was His time - not mine. And all I could do was go along for the ride. It was His choice - not mine. Since that time my awareness of my emotions and the degree I am affected by various emotional stimuli has been definitely re-sensitized. Now cognitive mind processes and strength of will have been natural strengths to me. Emotionally (and I believe this applies to many men in the USA), that was another story and thats where the evidence of God - doing what God does - became obvious. Now I havent lost the ability of my logic or strength of will, but a balance is occurring, the emotional aspect of my character is ever more present. Now I had thought about explaining why I dont exclusively rely on my emotions, but that will wait for another time. Emotional factors are involved in my life like they had not been before. But they are not king. The Spirit is not exclusively realized through our capacity of emotion. That would be just as unbalanced as relying exclusively on our intellect and reason to govern our relation to God, as has been the case in much of Western Religion. We must learn to mind the things of the Spirit - the mind - the will - and the emotions are all part of the expression of that Spiritual character. But dont be too upset if you find yourself crying in the middle of some chick flick.

mind set
Thus far I have only been concerned with the attempts one might make to live a "spiritual" life through minding the things of the flesh. Following after, as it were, the flesh. To be overly preoccupied with the concerns of the natural man. Of course there is the one other major way to walk after the flesh. To give the flesh a free reign. Self and self-interest without controls. Sin being the norm, and our being content there to dwell. "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Rom. 8:6-7. Both the carnal mind and the mind that is set on the Spirit produce a certain pattern and way of thinking. The "mind set" of the flesh, sense and reason without the Holy Spirit, is death, "death that comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter." Rom. 8:6 (AMP). The "mind set" of the Spirit is life and peace both now and forever. Galatians 6:8 (AMP) says, "For he who sows to his own flesh (lower nature, sensuality) will from the flesh reap decay and ruin and destruction; But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap life eternal." Excerpt - After The Spirit - That Grace Might Reign to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace To be carnally minded is not necessarily to be captivated and directed by the passions of the flesh, immorality, impurity, indecency, Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies), Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like Gal 5:19-21. Although these are not excluded, and do finally manifest as the end result of being carnally minded. To be carnally minded is to be reliant on the capacities of human mind (reason-logic), emotions and will - separated or divorced of relation to God, the Holy Spirit. The inevitable result being the symptoms displayed in character referred to as works of the flesh enumerated above. The carnal mind may also manifest in religious systems - human theological constructs and attempts to please God and do His bidding in our own abilities - virtually always ending in some form of legalism and slavish relationship. Such was the case under the Law. Such is the case in much of how we do church. To be spiritually minded is not the rejection of the natural capacities of our humanity, but is now infused with Life foreign to our prior Spiritually disconnected state. This Life is not unnatural in being superimposed controlling implantation to give us a good

zap when we step out of line (would that it were that convenient), but is rather a reconnection with the Life of God as man was originally created. A Life lost, not through our direct and immediate actions, but those of our first ancestors, and that lose communicated to us through heredity. Apart from this connected Life with God, natural capacities function - but out of balance - and without direction. Carnal religion will degenerate to the realm of the purely formal. Spiritual fellowship thus established between men and God and between believers together is something much higher and greater than can be expressed in any humanly sustained, ecclesiastical system. Religion has been mastered as a science. Not necessarily relational to what it would espouse relation too, or in fostering interrelations grounded in the depths of spiritual intimacy. But as organizational mastery and efficiency, programs, plans and plenty to do, not to neglect rightly dividing the word of truth, our religion is an impressive expression of what man is capable of accomplishing. I fear God may not be so impressed. Life in the Spirit, after the Spirit, to be spiritually minded is less a science and more an art. Spiritual Life is less predictable. You are not merely adhering to a few religious principles, doctrines and such. You are ever relating and communing with the God of eternity. Our finite being may experience the touch, the taste, the feel and even the understanding of the infinite. I grant you our ability to express and communicate such unlimited measure of life may be a virtual impossibility, but that does not negate it as the reality God would provide us in KNOWING Him. [For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him, By having the eyes of your heart flooded with light, so that you can know and understand the hope to which He has called you, and how rich is His glorious inheritance in the saints (His set-apart ones), And [so that you can know and understand] what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength, Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His [own] right hand in the heavenly [places], Ephesians 1:17-20 May He grant you out of the rich treasury of His glory to be strengthened and reinforced with mighty power in the inner man by the [Holy] Spirit [Himself indwelling your innermost being and personality].May Christ through your faith [actually] dwell (settle down, abide, make His permanent home) in your hearts! May you be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love, That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints [Gods devoted people, the experience of that love] what is the breadth and length and height and depth [of it]; [That you may really come] to know [practically, through experience for yourselves] the love of Christ, which far surpasses mere knowledge [without experience]; that you may be filled [through all your being] unto all the fullness of God [may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself]! Ephesians 3:16-19

Dwell
"To be spiritually minded is life and peace." Every one of us longs for the reality of God's life and the peace of God that passeth understanding. How many times does it seem that we have somewhere misplaced it? Where are our minds set? Psalm 91 is an often-quoted psalm of the deliverance of the Lord or the upholding power of God through terrors, pestilence, destructions, evils and plagues. But we must take note that the ability and blessings of God in performing His deliverance is conditional. Verse 1 says, "He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty." Verse 2 says, "I will say of the Lord, 'He is my refuge and my fortress..." Verse 9 says, "If you make the Most High your dwelling-". And verse 14 says, "Because he loves Me...for he acknowledges My name." In verse 1 to dwell" is "to sit down, to seat oneself; to remain, abide, tarry; to dwell, to dwell in, to inhabit; to dwell together as a family in concord." He who "dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest..." Verse 2, "the Lord...is my refuge...in whom I trust." A "refuge" is "a place to flee to; a shelter of trust." To "trust" is to "confide, to place hope and confidence in anyone, to secure without fear, to be confident; confidence, firm and certain; of a person or thing in which confidence is placed." Is the Lord our "refuge"? Is the Lord the one we confide in, place our confidence in? Can we expect the blessings of Psalm 91:3-8 if He is not? Verse 9 refers to making "the Most High your dwelling..." A dwelling is "a place of habitation or residence; sometimes considered a place of safety." Is the "Most High" our habitation? Can we expect that no harm will befall us, no disaster will come near our "tent"? Verse 14 says, "Because he loves Me,"- "loves" is an active verb, it means, "set his love- to connect or join together. It signifies the connection of the heart with any object which inclines us to love it, to delight in it; to set one's love on it." Have we set our "love" on the Lord? Have we connected with Him? Joined together with Him? Then, and only then, can we expect the rescue of the Lord. Again in verse 14 the Lord says, "I will protect him, for He acknowledges my name." The word "acknowledges" means "hath known". It is not simply some verbal profession of acknowledgment. It literally means "to see, to perceive, to be sensible of, by sight, by touch; but chiefly in the mind; hence, to understand, observe; to consider; to mark and observe with a purpose. That which comes unexpectedly or suddenly, men are said not to know." How are we at perceiving the Lord? Have we "known" the Lord, or is our experience limited to talk about the Lord?

PSALM 91 AMPLIFIED HE WHO dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall remain stable and fixed
under the shadow of the Almighty [Whose power no foe can withstand]. 2 I will say of the Lord, He is my Refuge and my Fortress, my God; on Him I lean and rely, and in Him I [confidently] trust! 3 For [then] He will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. 4 [Then] He will cover you with His pinions, and under His wings shall you trust and find refuge; His truth and His faithfulness are a shield and a buckler. 5 You shall not be afraid of the terror of the night, nor of the arrow (the evil plots and slanders of the wicked) that flies by day, 6 Nor of the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor of the destruction and sudden death that surprise and lay waste at noonday. 7 A thousand may fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand, but it shall not come near you. 8 Only a spectator shall you be [yourself inaccessible in the secret place of the Most High] as you witness the reward of the wicked. 9 Because you have made the Lord your refuge, and the Most High your dwelling place, [Ps. 91:1, 14.] 10 There shall no evil befall you, nor any plague or calamity come near your tent. 11 For He will give His angels [especial] charge over you to accompany and defend and preserve you in all your ways [of obedience and service]. 12 They shall bear you up on their hands, lest you dash your foot against a stone. [Luke 4:10, 11; Heb. 1:14.] 13 You shall tread upon the lion and adder; the young lion and the serpent shall you trample underfoot. [Luke 10:19.] 14 Because he has set his love upon Me, therefore will I deliver him; I will set him on high, because he knows and understands My name [has a personal knowledge of My mercy, love, and kindnesstrusts and relies on Me, knowing I will never forsake him, no, never]. 15 He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him. 16 With long life will I satisfy him and show him My salvation. No Comment - It speaks for itself

and continue dwelling

It is when you know the Lord by spiritual sense, your senses exercised in the knowledge and understanding of the Lord, not about the Lord but in intimate relation and connection with the Lord, that we may call upon Him and He will answer. He will be with us in trouble. It is true that whether we recognize it or not, in whatever trouble or predicament we may find ourselves, He is there. But in order for us to be partakers of Him in those situations we must set our minds and hearts to Him. So what does this mean to us? We are to dwell in the secret place of the Most High. We are to dwell with God and in God. To "dwell" is "to exist in some place or state, to fasten one's attention- to linger, to delay, remain, reside, to sojourn". We are to dwell, fasten our attention, and set our mind to the things of God, the things of the Spirit and that which the Spirit would lead us into. Only then will we know real life and peace. Only then will we come to "know" God, not just about Him.

Review Psalm 91 - Dwell dwell in His secret place dwell with God and in God 1 King 19:9-12 amplififed There he came to a cave and lodged in it; and behold, the word of the Lord came to him, and He said to him, What are you doing here, Elijah? He replied, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts; for the Israelites have forsaken Your covenant, thrown down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. And I, I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away. And He said, Go out and stand on the mount before the Lord. And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains and broke in pieces the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; And after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire [a sound of gentle stillness and] a still, small voice. We fear intimacy. Intimacy opens us to vulnerability. There is a sense in much of the church as to the lack of real community. This is from a Christian brothers post in one of the discussion groups I participate in: So if we join a community and we really learn to trust them, then we can be open and vulnerable.

However, if someone new shows up, we don't know if we can trust them, so it disturbs the whole community because no one wants to be vulnerable around new-comers. The early church had a 3 year education period before the new comers could become full members and fully participate. I don't suggest we move to this, but that would definitely make you feel like you could trust everyone around you. I don't know. It's human to be defensive. How can we correct, or account for, this? We can not expect intimacy of fellowship with each other - if we have not found intimacy and relationship and are comfortable in that rapport with God. Christian fellowship interconnectivity with each other in the church is not a work or product that we are assigned as if it were our business to make it happen. The building of the Church is Christs work, and a by-product of His life being lived out in and through us. But we are not comfortable with allowing an intimacy to with Christ, with God, with the Holy Spirit. The natural man resists the things of the Spirit. In the natural we cannot know Spiritual things. 1 Cor 2:14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated. In our reductionism of our Christian faith, we, the church, have attempted to simplify God to be rational and reasonable to our cognitive minds. We allow for a God who spoke and wrote and prompted men of old to communicate for Him, but we fail to assimilate what He was communicating through them. We dissect and analyze the words theyve written but fail to relate to the one written about. Holy words from God have replaced the Holy God. We fail to perceive that the situations and means God met with man are still means and methods and every bit as intimate and real today as they were then. Our fear of being associated with some New Age cultish practice, button holes us into accepting a humanistic rationale of faith through the scriptures, letter perfect and relationally void. Meditation defined as contemplation of the scriptures, or some like deviant, is only a small part of it. We fear a concept of meditation in communion with God, rejected as a modern (or postmodern) perversion and mystical practice to empty the mind. The permission to allow ourselves a familiarity with the indwelling Spirit of God has been denied us by most likely well meaning, but Spiritually ignorant, religionist enslaved to the book, or more exactly, a predefined dogmatism governing their relation to the book. Do Not presume I do not hold the Bible in high regard. My thoughts about God - Christ The Holy Spirit are founded in this book. But the book is not God - Christ - or the Holy Spirit.

God - the Spirit of Christ - The Holy Spirit dwells in me. My knowledge of the book does not change this. My lack of knowledge does not disqualify me. God is there - though I am an absolute idiot (which some may argue). Regardless of my understanding of the book, I can commune with God - the Spirit of Christ does teach me - the Holy Spirit fills me. There is a secret place in me where God dwells. He is seldom realized in the external confusion that surrounds my life, but He is there, and IF I apply myself to listen A still small voice.

Friend of the world

The carnal mind is enmity against God, Rom. 8:7. The flesh, for all practical purposes, is an experience of this present life, this life in the "flesh", "...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God..." 1 Cor. 15:50. This flesh is mortal; it will die and decay. At the resurrection we will be changed, this mortal will put on immortal. But now, we carry about mortal bodies. The mind of the flesh is concerned with that flesh, and life in the flesh. It is an experience of this world and our life in this world. I John 2:16 (AMP) says, "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh (craving for sensual gratification), the lust of the eyes (greedy longings of the mind), and the pride of life (assurance in one's own resources or in the stability of earthly things)-- these do not come from the Father but are from the world (itself)." The fundamental, basic nature of the mind of the flesh, as an experience of this present world, this present life, is to be concerned with these things. This carnal mind is directly opposed to God; it is not subject to the law of God and by its nature it cannot be. "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor. 2:14. "...whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." James 4:4. Excerpt - After The Spirit - That Grace Might Reign (1) lust of the flesh (craving for sensual gratification), (2) the lust of the eyes (greedy longings of the mind), (3) the pride of life (assurance in one's own resources or in the stability of earthly things) -- these do not come from the Father but are from the world (itself). These, (1), (2) and (3), constitutes all that is in the world. Christian sub-culture prides itself in its separation from the world. Sensual gratifications are relatively easy to isolate and make a conscious assessment of their worldly connection, as much Christian theology is tainted with the notion that natural human lower drives and desires are sinful. Sexual drives are particularly accorded a stigma as associated with the evil within us. Gluttony, drunkenness, drug usage and such all easily make it to our sins to be avoided list, without any argument. Some would expand their lists to include any consumption of alcohol and/or the avoidance of certain foods. Some even include avoiding roller coasters because of the sensual rush - too much adrenaline.

Greedy longings of the mind - lust of the eyes - Pornography is an easy one to pick out here. Its obviously so closely associated with sexual passions, and its purpose is to evoke a sensual sexual response. Covetousness may be a little harder to distinguish. When am I merely applying myself to acquire the things that may be permissible and allowed in my Christian experience, or even those that may be necessary to the accomplishment of a God ordained purpose, from that which is purely a matter of my own want? At what point do I, or any one else, cross the line from permissible to personal sin? Is the line always the same for everyone? The pride of life - Is all ambition bad? Sinful? Positions of recognition are always a fact of human society. There are those who will always be separated as corporate representatives of the rest of us. Elected leaders, hereditary royal positions, heads of corporations. military leaders, dictators, managers, foremen, business entrepreneurs, Popes, Cardinals, Pastors, Prophets, elders, deacons, evangelists and some would include Apostles. Is ambition for position a worldly thing? 1 Timothy 3:1 THE SAYING is true and irrefutable: If any man [eagerly] seeks the office of bishop (superintendent, overseer), he desires an excellent task (work). Paul, writing to Timothy, implies that ambition to an office of responsibility is a noble desire. He further expounds on the position Now a bishop (superintendent, overseer) must give no grounds for accusation but must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, circumspect and temperate and self-controlled; [he must be] sensible and well behaved and dignified and lead an orderly (disciplined) life; [he must be] hospitable [showing love for and being a friend to the believers, especially strangers or foreigners, and be] a capable and qualified teacher, Not given to wine, not combative but gentle and considerate, not quarrelsome but forbearing and peaceable, and not a lover of money [insatiable for wealth and ready to obtain it by questionable means].He must rule his own household well, keeping his children under control, with true dignity, commanding their respect in every way and keeping them respectful.For if a man does not know how to rule his own household, how is he to take care of the church of God? He must not be a new convert, or he may [develop a beclouded and stupid state of mind] as the result of pride [be blinded by conceit, and] fall into the condemnation that the devil [once] did. [Isa. 14:12-14.] Furthermore, he must have a good reputation and be well thought of by those outside [the church], lest he become involved in slander and incur reproach and fall into the devils trap. Ambition for position is not of itself - a sin. There is a point in each of our lives that the line between ambition and lust for recognition associated with position may be crossed. Not being able to assess the inner workings of their hearts and relation and intimacy with God, making an external judgment of anothers state of spirituality, is a subjective call and virtual objective impossibility.

In our attempts to separated ourselves from the world, what are we actually constructing? To what degree is the edifice of our separateness merely religious acts justified as fundamental of our Christian faith - but as acts of severance from the world, essentially no different than the acts of separation expressed by Muslim fundamentalists? If we really face the facts and open our eyes to reality - Muslim fundamentalists do a much better job of separating themselves from worldly, carnal, humanness than virtually any expression of Christianity. What separates most of contemporary Christianity is not what it should be. Most Christianity attempts to apply faith in precisely the same methods that Fundamentalist Muslims would exercise their faith. Faith through religious acts. Faith through touch not, taste not, avoid this, pray this, do this, dont do that. There most certainly are differences in much theology, and these differences are used by both religions to justify crusades or jihads. Both reverenced books, the Bible and the Koran, can be interpreted to support virtually any act of faith in line with the individuals own desires. Both faiths can be expressed purely as the product of mans pride. The one difference that separates Christianity from Islam, and I do not refer to the resurrection of Christ, although that is part of it, is we, Christians, have the indwelling Holy Spirit, It is on reliance to the Spirit in us, obtained and provided as a result of the resurrection of Christ, that we Christians should find our expression of Life. Sadly - we understand very little of the Spirits life in us. We have accomplished a fairly distinctive blend of Americanism with Christian religion, an hybrid materialistic kind of faith, but we understand little of the Spirit. We understand the Bible through the American mind, but the Scriptures as delivered by the Spirit remains a mystery. Our Americanism filters out that which is contrary to our American dream, or does not justify our nationalism. Do not get the idea that I am endorsing - advocating - or justifying any syncretism of Islam and Christianity. The point is - our Christianity, in our fundamental expressions, is essentially the same old religion, and the expression of RELIGION. Different doctrines - but same religion - as what we fear in fundamentalist Islam. As long as our FAITH is a religion, and not the inner and outward working of the Holy Spirit, our Christianity is no more than the pride of life seeking to serve God by controlling the lust of the eyes and lust of the flesh.

if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you

"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you..." Rom.8:8,9a. "If" the Spirit of God dwells in you, you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. "If so be that" literally means "if on the whole, if only, provided that," and it is used "of a thing that is assumed to be, but whether rightly or wrongly is left in doubt." If the Spirit dwells in you, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit. If you were "born again", born of the "Spirit" (John 3:5-8), born as a result of accepting the death of Christ as your death and the life of Christ as your life, you have received true life. This life is "born" in you by the Holy Spirit and is lived through you by the walking after the Holy Spirit. If, by faith you believed (trusted as real) in Christ and His propitiatory work, you are in the Spirit. Gal. 4:6; I Cor. 3:16; John 14:16,17; I John 4:13. "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." Rom. 8:9b,l0. To have the Spirit of Christ within is to have Christ Himself within. The man Jesus, who was the incarnate Christ, was born of God the Father by the virgin Mary His mother, by this Spirit. The life Jesus lived was through the leading of this Spirit. Jesus was both human, through Mary, and divine, through the Holy Spirit of God. This Spirit now dwells in us. This Christ Spirit, Spirit of Christ, is Christ incarnate in us. We are the body of Christ. If Christ is in us, individually, "...although the natural body is dead by reason of sin and guilt, the spirit is' alive because of the righteousness (that He imputes to you)." Rom. 8:10 (AMP). The flesh, body, carnal nature of man is useless because of sin. But our spirit, our true self, is alive. "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God..." Gal.2:20. "...Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Co1.1:27.

How much of our Christianity is a matter of bolstering our assurance of our salvation? How much of our Christian religion is actually natural religion, living our faith in the strength of our natural human character? What is there about our faith, and living our faith, that differs from Jewish zealots trying to establish a messianic kingdom, through political means and resources, force of the ballot or force of the bullet?

A common criticism of Evangelicalism, and Christianity in general, is the air of self righteous judgementalism that is perceived by so many, both in and outside the church. What is it that would lead so many to this seemingly commonly shared perception of the church, shared by believers and unbelievers alike? Why does contemporary Evangelicalism seem confined to the outline below? Or at least all our theology grow out of this foundation to eventually end up back to points 1 through 4, and the evangelizing of this as our ultimate purpose in life? 1. God loves you and offers a wonderful plan for your life (John 3:16; 10:10). 2. Man is sinful and separated from God. Therefore, he cannot know and experience God's love and plan for his life (Rom. 3:23; 6:23). 3. Jesus Christ is God's only provision for man's sin. Through him you can know and experience God's love and plan for your life (Rom. 5:8; 1 Cor. 15:3 - 6; John 14:6). 4. We must individually receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord; then we can know and experience God's love and plan for our lives (John 1:12; 3:1 - 8; Eph. 2:8 - 9; Rev. 3:20).

Charles Hadden Spurgeon wrote in My Conversion, The Holy Spirit, who enabled me to
believe, gave me peace through believing. I felt as sure that I was forgiven as before I felt sure of condemnation. I had been certain of my condemnation because the Word of God declared it and because my conscience bore witness to it. However, when the Lord justified me, I was made equally certain by the same witnesses. The Word of the Lord says, He that believeth on him is not condemned (John 3:18). My conscience bore witness that I believed and that God in pardoning me was just. Thus I had the witness of the Holy Spirit and also of my own conscience, and these two agreed in one.

In the Westminster Larger Catechism first question asks: Q. 1. What is the chief and highest end of man? A. Mans chief and highest end is to glorify God, (Rom 11:36; 1Cor 10:31) and fully to enjoy him forever. (Ps 73:24-28; John 17:21-23 ) Through out the history of the church, there are statements of faith and expressions of the Spirits working in our midst that inspire and prompt us on to move deeper into the realities of God. There are also human devises and reasoning, which may have been initially inspired by these same expressions, but have lost the underlying Spiritual vitality that were the cause of the first testimonial. The Spiritual life articulated degenerates into the logic of religious rhetoric. Something in the transmission is lost. Or is it that in our ability to reason and explain and rationalize and Scripturally support our faith, we have misplaced our faith in the inner existing Holy Spirit for the reasoned

and rational religion of our heads. It looks Biblically sound, proof texts to support every thought. But is it Him in us, or is it Bible words manipulated by us? Or is our faith in the theology handed down to us, rather than the God in us? I have no doubt that great men of God have taken the Bible, the Scriptures, and given us a foundation to understand God and our relation to Him. I am also convinced that as we receive this testimony, and that our faith, more often than not, becomes subverted by the testimony and we rely on its rhetoric rather than the God espoused in the testimony or the confession. We come to have faith in the testimony rather than the experience of the God of the testimony. Spurgeon had the witness of the Holy Spirit and also of my own conscience, and these two
agreed in one. Is this our testimony?

Is our faith in the God who assures us internally, as a result of the work He has begun? Or is our faith in the religious rhetoric, regardless of its Biblical foundation, that we construct to bolster our confidence in a God we hope is out there?

Quickened
"But if the Spirit...dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you." Rom. 8:11. The Spirit of God in believers guarantees that the God who raised up Christ from the dead will quicken the mortal bodies of believers through the Spirit. A mortal body is a body capable of dying. Our flesh is our mortal body. It is not only capable of dying, for the practical purposes of God, it is dead. A body made alive by the Holy Spirit becomes immortal. The transition from mortality to immortality is the work of the Holy Spirit. "Shall also quicken", this is in the "indefinite tense", it is not precise, but it shall be done and not by us. To bring life to our "mortal bodies" is the work of the Holy Spirit. I Cor. 6:14; II Cor. 4:14. "And if the Spirit of Him Who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, (then) He Who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also restore to life your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies through His Spirit Who dwells in you." Rom. 8:11 (AMP). Excerpt - After The Spirit - That Grace Might Reign In my writing, I have to make some judgment calls on a regular basis. Do I want to write to be popular, or do I want to write to reveal what God has revealed? To write to be popular all I have to do is pick an audience and cater my writing to please the particular crowd. There are those who like hearing a straight lined theological approach, sticking primarily to orthodox teaching, but just a little cutting, with just enough spice too make it controversial, but interesting. There are those who like to diverge from the ordinary, who dont give a crap whether its orthodox (by orthodox here I mean Biblically sound) or not, as long as it proclaims a God of love and peace and doesnt offend any of their make me feel good ideals. Love and Peace being defined by their own particular criteria. Well, I hate to disappoint you all- but, in some ways I am very fundamental. But not because I have bought into the Fundamentalists propaganda BS. I have come to some conclusions that do align with fundamentalist thinking. But not on their terms. At the same time I have a very liberal and open approach to Biblical interpretation. But I do not discard text or perceptions of God presented in the Bible by the ancients, simply because they do not align with my/our modern or post modern values. Ancient Biblical writers, and the ideas and concepts they expressed, are every bit as valid and profitable today to our understanding of the God who IS - whether understood as external or internally manifested. We are all confronted with a religious dilemma. On the one hand God is continually opening His Word, the Bible, to our ready and opened eyes to see and understand

Spiritual truths that, for whatever reason and purpose known only to God, have been kept from the common knowledge of the Church. Not that these truths were not in Scripture, or that some did not realize these things, but it is as though the blinders are coming off, and we can begin to see things in a new and clearer light. Where we had been preoccupied with Christian religion, the reality of the Life in and of the Spirit is gaining understanding. Our dilemma is how do we discern what IS of the Spirit as pertains to our usual understanding of following Christ, doing church, being what God would have us be. Was everything till now wasted, Spiritually dead? What part of our religion has value in light of the Spirit? I am really not as pessimistic as I may sound. Yes I believe we, the Church, have become engrossed in our religious system. But that does not mean that the Spirit has not been there. Maybe even in spite of us. We do carry a lot of religious baggage and most of us arent really sure what to chuck away and what to keep. Face it - a lot of our theology is simply our best explanation of what we really dont understand. We have been relying on intellectual prowess to put it together for us, and if you arent intellectually inclined to buy into some of the theological pretzel twisting some of these guys toss out, or you have too much intellectual integrity to compromise for the sake of unity, you must be simply stupid, ignorant, mentally deficient and spiritually challenged, and its just the grace of God that allows you to be considered for fellowship in this body. Stay out of the way, keep your peace, and dont do any thing to upset anything - And yes all are welcome. But, in spite of us - I do believe God is and has been active. You see - it really comes down to this - It was never us who was to be doing it in the first place. Some how - in a million and one different ways, we took it upon ourselves to do what God would do, if we would let Him do it. Im sure many have heard of the George Barna book Revolution. I havent read it, probably wont. It deals with a trend of Church members leaving the organized Church to pursue their callings as Christians outside conventional church expressions. Whether you are pro or con leaving the Church, I do see a positive indicator here. There is a dissatisfaction with the prevalent notion in the Church that We can do it. I believe this much of this line of confident thinking is a heritage of Western man coming through the Second World War, out of the Great Depression, and into a modern age of Scientific advancement unprecedented in all of history. WE CAN DO IT. Lets go to the moon. Didnt know what to do once we got there ,but, WE CAN DO IT. Like a dog chasing a moving car. Wouldnt know what to do with it if he did catch it. Weve been playing at doing church. Considering that, for the most part, all we have been working with has been our own

natural human abilities, what else could we possibly do, except, PLAY at doing church. Like kids, playing house or imagining whatever else, it might be practice for the future social endeavors, but isnt the real thing. We may learn from it, but it doesnt really count. It is just a childish game. The Church is a Spiritual entity. It is an assembly of the called out ones. It is not a social collective of individuals with a common interest (it is this but not in a natural sense), it is the association of Spiritually birthed and enlivened human beings relating with each other as rejuvenated in the Life of the Spirit. Tares have been growing with us, and its hard to tell the difference, but harvest is nearing and separation will occur, but separation is not ours to initiate, that belongs to the Lord of the Harvest. Life in the Spirit is not our work to accomplish - it is the work of the Spirit. We are encumbered by mortal resources - corrupt body, tainted mind, will and emotions - not a whole lot of hope here. "But if the Spirit...dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you." We are the participants in a New Covenant - A New Contract, with God. The Old one wasnt working out too well (God knew it would happen). The original inheritors of the first contract were continually reneging on the deal, so God (like He had said He would) cancelled the old contract with the original beneficiaries and established a new deal with better benefits associated, under new terms, with any and all who would accept the provisions of this most generous new deal. To all parties accepting the provisions of this new contractual agreement, God as a show of His good faith, delivers to us the earnest of the Spirit. You know what earnest money is dont you. Ive bee contracting for enough stuff around home lately, earnest down payments have been a natural part of life. Earnest money is the money you put down on a big ticket item (a new deck, a new fence, a new heat pump) to prove you are serious about the contract being entered into, and to show good faith to the other party that you will trust them to carry out their end of the deal prior to making full payment. God has given us His earnest payment - the Holy Spirit. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14 NKJV That [Spirit] is the guarantee of our inheritance [the firstfruits, the pledge and foretaste, the down payment on our heritage], in anticipation of its full redemption and our acquiring [complete] possession of itto the praise of His glory. Eph 1:14 AMP We are entered into a contract with God. That contract has not been fully consummated yet. We are able to taste the first fruits of that Spirits existence in our being. He - the Spirit - is at work in us to do what we can not. We still see our faults, we still ere. We

have not come to realize the full manifestation of His Life unhindered by our mortal flesh. But He is in the process of quickening our mortal flesh. It is not something we can do, it is not something God intends for us to do. It is Gods work - the deal is - we cooperate. We dont lead, we dont devise our own methods and madness - we follow. We allow ourselves to be led. Sometimes that means STOP TRYING - WAIT - Be patient - listen - hear - move and follow - as you are prompted. Our job is not to make it happen. Our job is to be found faithful. So far this whole contract thing looks like we have got all the good stuff, and yes, I think we do. I think God is getting the short end of the stick. But there is a clause in the contract that many, most dont like to hear about. Contracts are very serious things. Genesis 15 describes the contract Abraham entered into with God. At first glance it doesnt make much sense to us moderns and post moderns. The ease of breaking contracts makes the whole idea almost invalid. But not so with the ancients. These could be life a death matters. When Abraham divided the heifer and in the dream a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces, God was declaring that if HE (God) did not fulfill His end of the bargain, may He be divided like these animal parts. This was serious stuff. Im not going to dive into it deeper than this right now. Someday. There are some serious consequences for us - in entering into this contract - should we renege. This opens up a whole new can of worms. Most Calvinist Fundamentalists dont want to deal with this stuff. Maybe this is why so many have a problem with the reality of Spiritual things. Real Spirit is an issue that sounds Real God and Real Serious. - their right. I wont quote it here, but read - Hebrews 1:1-4, 4:1-14, 10:26-30 I fear there are many in the church who have tasted and turned back. I believe this explains much of the current condition of the church. In our ignorance and youth and childishness, we were allowed to play games playing church. God is not playing games. I know many dont like hearing this side of the equation. It doesnt fit their concept of a loving forgiving merciful God. But consider what is being rejected - it is not a promise of the Holy Spirit - it is the actual tasting and participating with and in the Holy Spirit. To reject that - is not to reject some religious theoretical theology or unfulfilled promise. It is the actual rejection of the person of God, after once KNOWING him. Life in the Spirit is not just a lot of religious maybes. It is God Himself.

through the Spirit do

"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:" Rom. 8:12,13a. We are under obligation, but not to the flesh, to live according to its demands. If you live after the flesh "you shall die," you are about to die. This is spiritual death. To follow after the flesh, to live according to its dictates, leads to spiritual death, separation, and alienation from God. "But if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." Rom. 8:l3b. If you, by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the body. Reckon it to be dead, consider and treat it as dead (Rom. 6:11). "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth..." Co1.3:5. "put to death", this is in the "present tense". We are to be "putting to death" the deeds of the body; it is an ever present, continuing obligation. Jesus said in Matthew 5:29,50, "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee...And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee..." If that which is part of us causes us to sin, destroy it, mortify it, treat it as dead. A man without eyes to see cannot use them to lust. A man without hands cannot use them to steal. If I have a car, and that car takes me to where I am prone to sin, I must live as not having a car. If my feet take me were I should not go, I must cut off my legs, treat them as paralyzed. But I, of myself can do none of this. We are under obligation, to the Spirit. We are under obligation to put our minds to minding the things of the Spirit, to put our attention to the things of the Spirit. It is then that through the Spirit we will be able to mortify the deeds of the body. We cannot do it by our own ambitious endeavors. It takes the Holy Spirit to accomplish what we cannot. "...he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting." Gal 6:8. Excerpt - After The Spirit - That Grace Might Reign Calvins weakness. I dont have a problem with John Calvin, or his theology. Its Calvinists that can be a real pain in the ass. In not having a problem with his theology, I am not saying I agree with all of his theology. I am saying that for his time, for the purpose that God had raised him up, in the context of the overall growth development and maturing of the Church, John Calvin made the most of what God had appointed him too. His intellect may be unsurpassed. Certainly few have shone so bright. That does not imply He got it all right. That does not imply that All that Biblical reasoning was Spiritual reasoning.

But in taking advantage of the times and environment to explore and investigate the content of the (for practical purposes) newly discovered Scriptures, substantial works of Biblical thought (based on the Bible) were produced free of the meddling interference of Church authoritarians. Calvin, much like the Apostle Paul, was educated a lawyer but a servant of God at heart. His Institutes of the Christian Religion was originally produced as a defense of persecuted countrymen. It was later enlarged and still remains unrivalled in many respects. But as much as Calvin and his works were a product of God working in him, they were also the product of his environment, the times and historical context he was placed and the human nature we carry as unregenerate man. Calvins strength was his genius. This was also, and for many of us is now, his weakness. Calvin would be the first to acknowledge the total depravity of man. That was his first point. That means the totality of mans character and being are affected by the fall, original sin. Our minds, will, emotions, carnal natures are ALL tainted and unreliable as the result of separation from God and resultant pollutions. Calvin, himself, was no exception. Calvins, as well as Luthers, and many others before and after, contribution to the development and maturation of the Church, to come to the place of the perfecting and the full equipping of the saints [That it might develop] until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the [full and accurate] knowledge of the Son of God, that [we might arrive] at really mature manhood (the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christs own perfection), the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ and the completeness found in Him. Eph 4:12-13, was only one step in the process. Granted, a major step, but only a part. Calvins theology was not the end of the development of this thing we know as the Church. God has been putting His body together, piece by piece. One error of the Church, as was organized and approved by Calvin and a carryover of the practice of the times, was the enforcement of ecclesiastical ordinances through civil governments. In many ways, the only thing that changed in the lives of most was that rather than the oppression of the Pope and Roman religious domination, there was an exchange for the religious domination of a group of elders, presbyters, enforcing religious rule through civil government. Freedom of faith, if it could be called that, was only a limited, narrow redefinition, throwing off the oppression of one for the oppression of another. In this Civil-Religious confusion of church/state and the Spirit, Calvin was not

uninvolved. He himself approved of the subjugation and trying and burning of those convicted as heretics. In all his contributions, in all the thought and genius, opening a perspective to apply the Bible and think freely in relation to God, how much of this voluminous contribution, is in reality, unregenerate mind games? How much of this Biblical reasoning is the product of the Spiritually unregenerate mind, functioning in a new found freedom, to think independently of religious authority and also yet not fully fettered to the Spirit of God?. How much of all that is Biblically justifiable is the product of the mind of the flesh rather than the mind of Christ? "But if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." Calvins, and those of his times, reasoning and means were to mortify your flesh for you. There was something missing in the theology of John Calvin, genius that he was, as instrumental in Gods plan that he was. The Bible, as interpreted as the Word had obtained a supreme value. But the author of that word, the book, the Spirit was little understood, KNOWN or realized. That does not imply the Spirit was not active. But whereas our intellects were finding freedom, our spiritual apprehension had not yet caught up to the place of having precedence in the relating of our character with that of the character of God. We had the Book, but we had not come to fully comprehend the real value of the Book in relation to the author. Mans tendency, in fallen nature, is to do something, anything. Dont just stand there - Do something. Gods provision works best when we learn to be still, KNOW that I am God. Come, FOLLOW me.

"sons" - "uioi"
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom. 8:14. As many as "allow themselves to be led." Here, the sons of God are defined, those who allow themselves to be led. The Spirit does the leading. "But if ye be led by the Spirit, ye are not under the Law." Gal. 5:18. They that are after the Spirit, mind the things of the Spirit. And if we be led by the Spirit, we are the "sons" of God. The Greek word for "sons" used here is "uioi", "it is used of one who depends upon another or is his follower: pupils- one who is connected with or belongs to a thing by any kind of close relationship. one to whom anything belongs. those to whom prophetic and covenant promises belong, for whom a thing is destined, one who is worthy of a thing." Those who allow themselves to be led by the Spirit of God are "sons" in this sense. It signifies the legal relationship before God as sons. There is another word that may be used, and is a synonym to "uioi", but relates to our relationship to God by virtue of our character. That is not the sense implied in this verse. In this verse, Rom. 8:14, we are closely related and connected to God, and the prophetic and covenant promises are intended for us (Hos. 1:10; Rom. 9:26; John 1:12; II Cot. 6:18; Gal. 3:26; I John 3:1; Rev. 21:7). But our relationship to God by virtue of our character is yet to be discussed.

Weve talked about our legal righteousness. Legally justified - just as if I had never sinned - Legal position before God This we received - obtained - through the provision of God - it wasnt and is not ours to manufacture, create or the product of any of our abilities. It just IS. A by product of our trusting God and His provision. This faith to accept this provision is itself an ability acquired through the Life of God moving where He wills - a breeze in the cosmic continuum. The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit. John 3:8. In our insecurity we seek to define the nature of this indefinable illusive quality we call faith to reassure ourselves that weve got it. We pull our Bible verses: Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses]. Hebrews 11:1, but these only give us academic, scholastic externals but are not the actual experience of the thing we are trying to define. The fact that we seek to reassure ourselves and define this quality is itself the evidence that we dont have it.

In God faith is. - As God IS - so is all that is of Him. If the Spirit is the third person of the triune Godhead - If, to be in Christ is to be born of the Spirit - then our faith is not a matter of religious definition and redefinition to substantiate that we have it, or reposition our thinking to act in accordance to our definition - If one is born of the Spirit - faith IS. It is not something you must be convinced of through the reasoning of man. It is the reality of God in you. Now understand me - there is plenty of mind changing that will occur. Our minds will change. We do begin to think differently. We Repent - change our minds - change my way o thinkin. But it is not in reference to religious man constructed and defined doctrine and dogma. It is in relation to the Spirit of God that indwells you. In making this statement I am not saying there are not doctrines that can not be established as God given. I am saying many that we have virtually carved in stone as the definition of what it means to be in Christ or Christian need to be reevaluated in the light of the indwelling knowledge of the Spirit of God. It is not those who define themselves into a notion of faith that are the (legal) sons of God, it IS as many as are led (allow themselves to be led) by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.. No Mo Religious Games!!! Can I get a witness !?!? CAN I GET A WITNESS ! ? !? ! ?

the Spirit of adoption

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage...but ye have received the Spirit of adoption..." Rom. 8:15. Bondage, slavery, the condition of a slave. Bondage that consists in decay, this is the equivalent to the Law, the necessity of perishing. It is used of the slavish sense of fear, devoid alike of buoyancy of spirit and of trust in God, such as is produced by the thought of death, Heb. 2:15, as well as the Mosaic Law in its votaries; the Mosaic system is used to cause "slavery, bondage on account of the grievous burdens its precepts impose upon its adherents (Gal. 4:24). This we did not receive. If our experience is that of bondage, it is not Christ; it is not a life after the Spirit. If all we know is defeat and condemnation, our relationship to God and His Spirit must be examined in light of the Scripture. It may be that we are merely ignorant of God's truth. But the Scriptures say in Hosea 4:6, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." We have received "the Spirit of adoption." "Adoption" in the Greek is "uiothesia". It is from "uios" and "thesis"; it means "adoption, adoption as sons. This is the nature and true condition of the true disciples of Christ, who by receiving the Spirit of God in their souls become the sons of God to wait for the adoption- i.e. the consummate condition of the sons of God." The word "thesis" is a legal term, referring to "lawgiving, legislation, the setting of boundaries." In this sense of "sonship" we are legally adopted sons, but as yet waiting for the consummation of that adoption. (I Cot. 2:12; II Tim. 1:7; Eph. 1:5; Gal. 4:5).

I have been balking at writing this section. There are a lot of issues in this section that I want to address on several levels including religious and political. Sometimes, when writing about religious or spiritual things, readers may allow a certain amount of latitude as religious/spiritual things are after all, purely subjective. Christian spirituality, when we reduce it to a level of polite conversation can be interesting, albeit dismissible as a practical reality. Come to think of it, any philosophy, ideology or spiritual topic may be acceptable as polite conversation subject - until lines are drawn and implications made that begin to touch us in areas where we really live and challenge our preconceptions and fundamentals deemed as sacred absolutes. In doing research for this I came across the sermon notes of Charles Hadden Spurgeons The Spirit of Adoption. If you dont know who Spurgeon was, he was considered the Prince of Preachers in the second half of the nineteenth century. He produced some excellent material. His Treasury of David commentary on the Psalms is classic stuff,

besides his Morning and Evening devotional. In The Spirit of Adoption, Spurgeon draws some premature conclusions - based on the subject matter he is dealing with. I say premature because the conclusion he comes to is actually a correct conclusion - but - he does not deal with the subject matter in the fullness of the context of the Scriptures. He stops short of actually opening and expounding the truth he wishes to impart. He eludes to the truth - but assumes the apprehension and understanding of the spiritual dynamic by his listeners without actually dealing with it. Referring to the Spirit of Adoption Spurgeon explains That Spirit which brings us into the relation of sons to God. No problem here. In explaining its effect on us as our exhibiting a spirit of adoption he calls it a filial spirit, The spirit of adoption as a filial spirit means that spirit or disposition towards God which is appropriate to this relation - reverential love, of admiration, of gratitude and delight. - confidence - zeal for his glory, jealousy for his honor, and desire to see that honor promoted. - obedience and resignation. No real problem here, except I dont believe this is what the Scripture is eluding too. But it makes for a nice sermon. The general idea of sonship is participation of nature. This is where Spurgeon, and I believe much of Evangelicalism begins to assume too much too quick. We have received the Spirit of Adoption but this refers to our legal status as sons - uios. Objects of special favor. In this sense the Israelites were Gods children. Just as the Israelites were accepted by God as His - so are all who come to acceptance and knowledge of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Roman customs exercised a great deal of influence on Jewish family life. One custom is particularly significant in relation to adoption. Roman law required that the adopter be a male and childless; the one to be adopted had to be an independent adult, able to agree to be adopted. In the eyes of the law, the adopted one became a new creature; he was regarded as being born again into the new familyan illustration of what happens to the believer at conversion. The apostle Paul used this legal concept of adoption as an analogy to show the believers relationship to God. Nelson's new illustrated Bible dictionary. Spurgeon was right that the general idea of sonship is participation of nature. But this is not what is being dealt with in this concept of adoption. Adoption is the legal transaction. That transaction is not fully complete. It will not be complete until And not only the creation, but we ourselves too, who have and enjoy the firstfruits of the [Holy] Spirit [a foretaste of the blissful things to come] groan inwardly as we wait for the redemption of our bodies [from sensuality and the grave, which will reveal] our adoption (our manifestation as Gods sons). Romans 8:23. But, until then we have received the Spirit of adoption. Our adoption is a legal issue. participation of nature is a character issue.

Here, I believe Spurgeon comes up short. Here, I believe much of the Church has been short changed. In our studies and attempts to apply Biblical truths and principles, we rely on our legal standing to accomplish that which we have not persevered into understanding on a Spiritual level. Adoption is a term involving the dignity of the relationship of believers as sons; it is not a putting into the family by spiritual birth, but a putting into the position of sons. Vine's complete expository dictionary of Old and New Testament words. John 1:12 AMP - But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name[Isa. 56:5.] Spurgeon stopped one verse short. participation of nature is not a result of adoption. It is, in fact, an experience of new birth. It is the infusion of new character. Character foreign to our natural humanity. The bulk of the Church, having come to realize our adoption has been seeking to produce and manufacture the products of a Spiritual relation based on a legal understanding - and our best efforts- putting our best foot forward. The fruits of the Spirit are love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance, long suffering), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness, gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence) so we proceed to self discipline ourselves, to habitually remake ourselves into the image of Christ. And of course when we do screw up there is always the blood of Jesus, the confession of our sins and were back on the legal straight and narrow. And there is some truth to this. We have not come to realize that to as many as believe (and that is implying a lot - more than I believe most realize) - He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God. That children is not uios - sons - as adoption refers to. It is teknon children - children by nature - by virtue of character traits - children as introduced in Romans 8:16. Our understanding of our character nature as - sons - children of God, is not explained or dealt with in our relation to God as adopted. But for most of the Church - this is all we know. As a result - weve been doing it all wrong. Yes we know what we should be - and we have been trying - but we have tried in our own strength. As a result - our faith - as best we can exercise it, is a nice ethical benchmark to help guide us and measure our progress, but it is not the life of Christ. And as maturity is assumed to be evident in those with some years in the faith, Biblical knowledge,

zealousness, gray hair has become the measure of Spiritual maturity. And these things may well accompany real Spiritual maturity. But they are not one and the same. Biblical knowledge built on anything other than the life imparted by the Spirit is only religious knowledge. Zeal can be totally sincere, but if it is not the Spirit, all it is hype. Grey hair may be a sign of experience and knowledge and a certain wisdom, but as relates to the Church, without the Spirit, all grey hair signifies is old. Spurgeon spoke of a filial spirit. I believe this was a matter of his intellectualizing the Scriptural text. I cant knock him for that, I believe we all do it to some extent. If for no other reason other than to explore possible alternative renderings. A problem that I have is in our efforts to do the work of Christ and claim a prophetic anointing, and in our ignorance and lack of understanding of the Spirit in us, we have recommissioned the Holy Spirit as the spirit of hyperbole (exaggeration: deliberate and obvious exaggeration used for effect). And as might suit our situation, we resort to the old religious standby, the spirit of slavery. But since slavery is not politically correct, his twin brother, the spirit of intimidation. This is where I have to part company with the religious right. Actually I parted company with them a long time back, but this is where I begin to speak up. I originally accepted President Bushes policies after 9-11 based on the fact that as President He would have the responsibility to protect and defend us, and presumably would have the supplied intelligence through the various agencies to make informed decisions affecting us all. What ever doubts I had - I believed he deserved the benefit of the doubt. Well, hes had too much benefit, and there is too much doubt. I have no doubt he is a professing believer. I have no doubt he has regular devotions. The fruit of his administration leaves me with little evidence that the profession and the devotion is little more than religious activity. Professing does not equate to believing. A tree is known by its fruit. And hanging an apple on a Christmas tree doesnt make it an apple tree.

Pay Attention
So what are the things of the Spirit that we are to put our attention to, or mind? To be realistic about it, I would have to lay before you the entire Bible, the "logos of God", the divine mind of God as revealed by God through His prophets as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. We must never separate the spiritual character of the Bible from the Holy Spirit, after all He wrote it. But we must also never allow it to become dead letters. We must allow the author of the book to reveal that book. We must enter into God's mind in searching God's truth. This is an ability that the Holy Spirit gives. As He quickens our mortal bodies, He will bring life into our minds (1985). (The following appended - 2001) This Paragraph needs
to be expanded. What is stated here deals with the objective witness of the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures, which certainly is valid. But there is a subjective dimension of the Holy Spirits inner working and witness in our life which is every bit as valid, if not more so, and is evidence of the life of Christ being produced in us by the Holy Spirit. This subjective, inner dimension may be more difficult to discern and realize because of our carnal sinful nature and must be tried and tested by the objective revealed Logos. Intuition, conscience, "gut feeling", desires, dreams, visions, circumstance, these all may be means used in the Holy Spirit in leading us in our growth and calling in Christ. But we must always be willing to submit that which is in us to the Spirits teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness as revealed in the Bible (appended - 2001).

"Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." Phil. 4:8. "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord..." Col. 3:16. Excerpt - After The Spirit - That Grace Might Reign Back in my early years as a believer, and studies, I bought into the general evangelical interpretation of the Bible as being the Logos of God. There is a certain truth to this interpretation and application of the Bible as Scripture, but it is not an actual fact or Biblically defensible reality. The Bible, is never defined as the logos, except as is defined by we believers in relative recent history, attempting to nail down the mind of God as tangibly and in as concrete a manner as is possible. But as is understood in the general thought of the Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, logos transcends the limited and narrowly definable, understanding and knowledge of God as handed down to us in the Bible, the Scriptures. The writer of the Gospel of John says in the very last verse, 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did. If they should be all recorded one by one [in detail], I suppose that even the world itself could not contain (have room for) the books that would be written.

We, in our attempts to manage and defend, to control and define that which is Spiritual, Christian, of the faith, have attempted to apply an absolute definition to our understanding of Scripture which we find manageable. Elements of what may be Spiritual truth, but not precisely defined within our religious construct are deemed questionable at best and potentially if not probably heretical. In our attempts to defend the Scriptures we inadvertently become guilty of denying them and the Spiritual truths Jesus himself taught and prophesied would be the normal state of those related to Him in the faith subsequent to His death, burial and resurrection. A major portion of the Gospel of John is nothing more than a detailed explanation of this relationship. The certain truth of the Bible as logos may only be reasoned as applicable, in that the Bible is the only historically reliable source of recorded information received by the faithful from the beginnings of our faith. As such, it is the one unchanging objective source to assess to our relation to the Spirit of Christ. That will not keep us from tearing it apart, and dissecting every nuance in our efforts to prove our point, and become top dog in the religious hierarchy. Such efforts seldom do more than demonstrate the innate religious nature of man as exhibited in idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies), envy Logos 1. of speech - a. a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea. b. what someone has said 1. a word 2. the sayings of God 3. decree, mandate or order 4. of the moral precepts given by God 5. Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets 6. what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim c. discourse 1. the act of speaking, speech 2. the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking 3. a kind or style of speaking 4. a continuous speaking discourse-instruction d. doctrine, teaching e. anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative f. matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law g. the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed 2. its use as respect to the MIND alone a. reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating b. account, i.e. regard, consideration c. account, i.e. reckoning, score d. account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment e. relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation 1. reason would f. reason, cause, ground 3. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the worlds life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of mans salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.

++++ This term was familiar to the Jews and in their writings long before a Greek philosopher named Heraclitus used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to Johns purpose in John 1.

Our Hope
In Romans 8:15 we see that we "have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." To understand the passages that follow, Romans 8:16 and on, it is advantageous for us to jump forward to Romans 8:23, where we are told that we "have the firstfruits of the Spirit" and are "waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of the body." In the Greek, "firstfruits" may be translated as the "first portion". II Cor. 5:5 tells us that God has given us the "earnest" of the Spirit and II Cor. 1:22 says God has "sealed us and given us the earnest of the Spirit". Eph. 4:30 goes on to say we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. The "earnest" of the Spirit is a pledge- A promise of God to do something, and it is by the Holy Spirit we have this pledge. We have received the Holy Spirit as a promise from God to carry out to completion the redemption of our bodies. We also see that in God giving us the Holy Spirit He has sealed us with that Holy Spirit. This means He has placed His mark on us, the same as a notary would place his seal on a legal document. So, by our having the Holy Spirit we have the pledge or promise of God and He has gone as far as to place His legal mark on us to seal and make that promise binding. We have the promise of redemption, the redemption of the body. Rom. 8:23 calls this the adoption. This redemption of the body, or adoption, is the consummation of the legal adoption referred to in Rom. 8:15, where it says we have received the Spirit of adoption. In Rom. 8:24,25, the adoption, the redemption of the body is expressed as our hope. A hope we patiently wait for. Excerpt - The Work of the Holy Spirit in the Development of Hope and

There is a growing popular conception that weve got it all now. I can understand the desire for this new theology, and to a certain extent I believe there is a limited relative truth to this. Limited and relative truth? Limited in that we dont have it all now, but we do have more than what we have generally been allowed to believe. I say been allowed to believe because in church history, many if not most of our Christian theologians, in their studies, research and attempts to expound the Scriptures, when faced with issues and items in Scripture beyond their immediate experience, were able to gloss over, ignore and in many arbitrary ways explain away things they were not intimate with. With the expanding Biblical knowledge that has and is continuing to become a progressive norm within the Church, and the undeniable experiences of a

positive Spiritual nature occurring, sweeping our unexplainable epiphanies under the rug is no longer an option. Writing these things off as counterfeit or demonic ceases to be a viable option in the light of the ongoing maturing value demonstrated in the recipients of the Spiritual endowment. Besides, the growing number of credible witnesses and undeniable evidence. Popular theology would exploit this and a plethora of doctrines and systems have been devised to propagate the You too can do it, God is on your side and wants to do this for YOU, Come to my conference, give and it shall be given - another life changing message, Your life will never be the same, Its your destiny. A little, little truth, even half-truth, goes a long way - sells a lot of books - Tee Shirts and CDs - and whatever else can be hawked - If youve mastered the marketing and understand your targeted demographic. Hes got the whole world in His hands - and Ive got Him in my pocket. Experiences - Divine Encounters - the reality of God operating in and active in an open system - not having deserted us some two thousand years ago - All this being acknowledged - God is not our butler - Our boy to do it or get it done for us. The truth is - God is active in our world - in current, contemporary time and space. He is much closer than we have been encouraged to experience (sorry - dirty word to many). Too those who would believe - He is in the immediate - He is in you - His character can be and may be the expression of your character. But this immediacy of the indwelling God is foreign to most, and a matter of ignorance to the rest. Sure there is a certain lip service of doctrinal acknowledgement in many of our creeds and theologies, but as an active continuing experiential reality, most of us dont have a clue. We argue Jesus Christ was perfect, but Im not Him and Besides, He was God. Well - Jesus said Neither for these alone do I pray [it is not for their sake only that I make this request], but also for all those who will ever come to believe in (trust in, cling to, rely on) Me through their word and teaching, That they all may be one, [just] as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe and be convinced that You have sent Me. I have given to them the glory and honor which You have given Me, that they may be one [even] as We are one: I in them and You in Me, in order that they may become one and perfectly united, that the world may know and [definitely] recognize that You sent Me and that You have loved them [even] as You have loved Me. How long are we going to be satisfied making convenient religious excuses? Was Jesus just blowing smoke? How long are we going to allow our theology(ies) to keep us from relating too and experiencing, not The God who is there but the God who is HERE. In Here. IN YOU, who believe?

You say - Bob - arent you asking for and expecting some kind of holiness perfectionism? Get off of it - Start paying attention and hearing what Im saying. Start relating to God in you. Maturity is a progressive manifestation of Him being allowed to break out of you. Its not a question of gifts and supernatural fireworks and our ability to set them off. Yes, there can be fireworks - and everybody enjoys a trip to the circus - but we do not live on top of firecrackers and projectiles hurled into the stratosphere, and if youve ever taken a good whiff - the circus can stink to high heaven. Our experience of God - in us - and as a matter of supernatural manifestation is limited. We have only received the down payment. God has invested in you, only what you can be trusted with. Our experience of the glory to be revealed - is relative. It is relative in that it is not for our purposes - It is not toys for us to play with. It is relative in that it is God being God - and as He wills - and sometimes in spite of us - works through us. In this limited and relative state, we have hope. There is an ultimate Hope - and there are intermediate hopes. [For Abraham, human reason for] hope being gone, hoped in faith that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been promised, So [numberless] shall your descendants be. [Gen. 15:5.] He did not weaken in faith when he considered the [utter] impotence of his own body, which was as good as dead because he was about a hundred years old, or [when he considered] the barrenness of Sarahs [deadened] womb. [Gen. 17:17; 18:11.] No unbelief or distrust made him waver (doubtingly question) concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong and was empowered by faith as he gave praise and glory to God, Fully satisfied and assured that God was able and mighty to keep His word and to do what He had promised. (Rom 4:18-21) Abraham believed God. Abraham hoped in faith that he should become the father of many nations Abraham was convinced God was able and mighty to keep His word and to do what He had promised. Abraham - in his lifetime - never experienced the manifestation of the reality of this hope. 1 Cor 13:13 And so faith, hope, love abide [faithconviction and belief respecting mans relation to God and divine things; hopejoyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation; lovetrue affection for God and man, growing out of Gods love for and in us], these three; but the greatest of these is love. There are three basic elements of our Christian faith - Faith, Hope and Love. They are all integrally tied to each other. They can not be easily dissected and defined as rules or

actions of conduct. They are (I believe) purposely open ended. They are not as simple as do this, do that, dont do this or dont do that. They require the immediacy of relationship with God who guides. We have means or descriptors to recognize when they exist - or are manifested. But to limit their expression to even the Scriptures, the Bible, is equivalent to rejecting all those books the world could not contain (John 21:25), but can be written on your heart.

Character
Now that we have laid a little groundwork, we can go on to Rom. 8:16. But it was important to consider v/here we are going, in order to understand how we are to get there. Rom. 8:16 says the Holy Spirit "bears witness" or "gives testimony" with, or in agreement with, our human spirits, that we are the "children of God", and back in Rom. 8:14, it refers to those who are led by the Spirit of God as being the "sons of God". The Greek word for "sons" in verse 14 and children in verse 16 are synonyms, but do not have identical meanings. Although both point to parentage and in our case the parentage of God, the "sons" of verse 14 refers to the "legal, inward or ethical" sense of being a son. The "children" of verse 16 gives prominence to the "physical or outward" characteristics, or being a child by virtue of one's nature or character. This is the sense we are concerned with at this point. The Spirit of God bears witness with our human spirits that we are the children of God by virtue of our nature. But how did this nature get there? Is it something intrinsic in all of us, or just a few of us, or is it something not of us at all? And if it is not of us, where did it come from and how did it become a part of us. We know, that we have received the Spirit of adoption, and this adoption will be completed with the redemption of our bodies, and it is to the completion of this that we hope. Rom. 8:24 says we are saved by hope. Rom. 5:2 says we are standing in grace and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Verse 3 says we also "glory in tribulations" knowing that tribulations worketh or develops patience, and patience in turn develops experience, and experience, hope. Here we have a formula for something being developed in our lives, Hope. Excerpt - The Work of the Holy Spirit in the Development of Hope and

Formula - The thought makes me cringe. The perception of adding one plus two plus three divided by A to the Nth power squared, minus sanity multiplied by total confusion. Equals - A leap of faith into the abyss of nihilism. Take three parts religion, mix in a generous helping of zeal, subtract any perceptible reason, divide by any and all evident conflicting doctrines and competing theologies, fill in any obvious defects with denominational excrement, bake until well done, remove

from the oven but do not allow to cool, cover lightly with decorative icing (no more than a light veneer), serve immediately. Oh - dont forget the evangelistic candles -We do have to let our little light shine. Yes - formulas - Uugggghhhh. Sends chills up my spine.

Back 25 years ago it didnt seem so offensive too me. But after a few years practical experience in relation to both Charismatic, Reformed and other Evangelical church affiliations, Ive come away with little else then a formula based conception of the Christian religion. I am not saying there are not actual believers in these institutions, but I am saying the denominational monsters we have bound ourselves too have succumbed to the notion of adherence to organizational norms as being indicative of the measure of Christian faithfulness, maturity and value of the individual believer in relation to the Kingdom of God. The formulas may differ or vary on certain particular points, but the product is virtually always the same. Carrot Cake, Spice Cake, Chocolate Cake, Angel Food Cake - but all cake. Not the best of diets. Yes there are healthy elements in the recipe and baking process, (flour, eggs, milk), but all formula prepared cake. If you consider it, it is not the healthy elements that appeals to our craving for a particular favorite. It is the flavoring, the sugar, the sweetness, or the spice, even the perception of the inclusion of an additional healthy element (carrot). But even the inclusion of the additional healthy component is only for taste or color and not any actual added health benefits. It is the perception of added health benefits. But what if our faith and growing in relation to Christ and maturity in Christ is not a formula at all, but a process? And a process not designed by religious systems or organizational hierarchies, but is an ever differing custom designed experience in life, composed and orchestrated by the Holy Spirit. A new and unique composition exclusively intended for the one and only you. Process - 1. series of actions: a series of actions directed toward a particular aim 2. series of natural occurrences: a series of natural occurrences that produce change or development Encarta World English Dictionary I have ten children. None of them are the same. Each one is a unique personality. As a father, my hope is to see them mature into the character of Christ. That doesnt mean that I want them all to be the same or even to be like me (although it is undeniable they will pick up many of my and there mothers characteristics). I want to see them realize, individually, each one of their own potential as persons related to God. They all have varying interests. Some pick up my interests in music. Some computers. Each one responds differently to varying stimuli. Some are extroverts. Some more introverted. Some are more naturally others conscious. Some are more daring. Some like to test the limits of the family law to see what they can get away with or at what point can they exert themselves challenging the rules before Dad says anything. Some, at some point, would have been considered the problem child. All seem to go through a period of testing the limits. In relating to each one, my response, reaction and remedy, is not always

the same. What motivates and causes one to respond positively, will not necessarily work on another. What may be an appropriate discipline for one, may break the spirit of another to a degree that it could be considered spiritual abusive on my part, as their father. I do screw up. There is plenty I wish I could redo. As children by virtue of His nature, character, He is impressing His parental authority on us. It is not the same for all of us. It is also possible that we can rebel, resist and thwart the maturing process. I cannot help but wonder, How much of our religion is in actuality an attempt to escape the discipline and maturing of our Father - but wed rather have cake?

Holy Spirit - Producer

At the same time hope is being developed in our lives, or made clearer or more real, something else is happening simultaneously. As hope is developed, the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. The love of God, the nature of God (I Jn. 4:8), is being poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. So we see it is the Holy Spirit producing the nature of God in our lives. Therefore, if we are children of God by nature (Rom. 8:16), it is because the Holy Spirit is producing this nature in our spirit. Excerpt - The Work of the Holy Spirit in the Development of Hope and God's Nature In Our Lives- That Grace Might Reign In some of my past writings I described my approach to music as a currently living active conversation in the language of musical notes and chords, ever changing and evolving, as the language becomes common and the individual musicians better versed in the languageIn my playing, taking all the skill and ability the Lord has allowed me to develop and then giving the best and offering it back to Him. I must admit that my approach to music is only an extension and artistic expression of what I believe is fundamental to life as God made us to be in relation to Him in or through the Spirit. Many musicians are not comfortable with this approach. They are much more comfortable playing scripted music with all the beats, notes and chords predetermined and arranged beforehand. I have and continue to play with musicians so predisposed, but not as a matter of choice. It is a matter of maintaining fellowship. But as an artist wishing to develop a piece and explore new possibilities (even within a scripted piece) such an approach is stifling to artistically suicidal. To wit - to continue to play thus - Show me the money - Or as Frank Zappa and the Mothers O I would put it Were only in it for the money. Over the last several years, being continually drawn back into more serious attempts with my music, accumulating mucho bocu assorted toys that make magnitudinous sonic manifestations reaching to the seventh heavens and beyond, and other expensive big boy gadgets to chronicle for posterity the wizardry and magic hidden since the foundations of time but now made manifest to our blessed ears, I have had opportunity to delve into and exercise my creative energies playing with, creating with, recording and producing musicians of well above average developed talent. Some who, by the providence of God, and their faithfulness to Him and His purposes, may never receive the recognition as musicians and artists they most assuredly deserve. In each situation, with each musician, with the differing groups and styles and the desired result - production takes on a different character. That does not imply a hap-hazard

nobody knows what is going on - turn on the recorder and hope for the best capitulation. If there is the underlying talent, not just an ego pressing to prove themselves, but an intrinsic talent, and a modicum of effort has been invested to build the skills requisite to the exercise of that talent, the foundations for an artistic creation are in place. Some talents may be developed to a high degree of technical mastery. Some may be in elementary stages. If Art is defined as the creation of beautiful things: the creation of beautiful or thought-provoking works, even the most simple and elementary of talents is capable of the creation of the beautiful. Beauty is not necessarily the manipulation of the complex - though complexity may allow for the communication of deeper and more provocative concepts. Beauty is not necessarily that which appeals to a particular aesthetic or commonly, culturally accepted and appreciated norm. Beauty, if not understood by a particular observer or the culturally ignorant, may appear to such as the hideous - valueless - crap. In my productions - there are ALWAYS mistakes made in the performances. Some can be pretty embarrassing. There was a time when a band is following a particular leader (in a live recorded performance). The vocalist lost their place and two extra measures where inserted in a spot that should have been a strong and decisive transition modulating and escalating the piece into a new altered quality. The group pressed on through the performance and the recording was completed. I was able to take the raw tracks and during mix down clip out the two undesirable measures and paste the performance together so that the fact that there was an error in performance was no longer there. Listening to the mixed down recording you would never be able to tell there had been a problem. Those two fudged measures was just so much that wound up on the cutting room floor. Similar corrections, cutting and pasting, note correction (vocal and instrumental) within productions, and individual tracks (bass, guitar, keyboards, etc) is the norm. So it is with the Holy Spirit producing in us. What happens to all those screw ups that inevitably make a regular mess of things in our lives. If the talent is there - those fudges simply dont count - gone - cut out - wasted - They are not part of the product subject to release. We all have a lot of flesh that we are going to be leaving behind. Unfortunately for some, maybe many, the ratio of flesh to spirit may be rather high. And some, believing they are such great performers may be surprised when they realize that maybe they should have let the producer do his thing rather than taking such pride in their own performance.

hope of eternal liferedemption of the bodygracesalvationeternal

lifeappearing of Jesus ChristChrist in you one hope Tit. 3:7 says we are "heirs according to the hope of eternal life ", and Rom. 8:23 refers to hope as the redemption of the body. I Pet. 1:13 says we are to hope for "the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ". I Thes. 5:8 refers to the "hope of salvation", and lit. 1:2 "the hope of eternal life". Tit. 2:13 "the blessed hope and glorious appearing of the Great God and Savior Jesus Christ". Col. 1:27 tells us that Christ in you is the hope of glory. And finally I Tim. 1:1 says "Jesus Christ" is our hope. Now Eph. 4:4 tells us we are called in "one hope of our calling". From this we understand that each expression of hope refers to the same hope which we are awaiting. Or as put in Rom. 8:23, "the redemption of the body". Excerpt - The Work of the Holy Spirit in the Development of Hope and God's Nature In Our Lives- That Grace Might Reign

We have hope. In some respects, and I believe this may well apply to most, that hope is always - out there, down the road, always in the future, yet to be realized and in the minds of many never to be realized until one is called into the presence of God subsequent to death and entering their conception of paradise. I dont think this is something to be scoffed at, but I do believe this perception of what our hope in Christ is, is in actuality only a half ,or quarter (or less) of an understanding of what salvation is. And to pursue the argument, half a salvation, bordering on the precipice of despair, only to languish in the cesspool of wasted dreams, may be deemed equivalent to no hope at all, or a sinister perverse humor exercised by a g(G)od wanting for a means of entertainment. But this is not our God, and this is not only our hope, and this is not the limit of salvation. Proverbs 13:12 Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but when the desire is fulfilled, it is a tree of life. In Christ, or maybe better expressed, Christ in you - is Hope. We have a tendency to numb this down, to do it lip service, but to actually live in accordance to it, Christ is in me, Christ in ME is my hope, Christ IS IN ME, and Christ in me wants to be Him through me, - HOW WEIRD. Thats just tooooo.. Outer Limits, Twilight Zone, space cadet chew food, The gospel according to the Sci-Fi channel.

No - Its not. But, it is the Gospel. Reception of Christ Is the reception of the seeds of hope. And, if allowed and encouraged, nurtured, that hope is growing, and will continue to grow. And there is a by-product of this, Christs character. The manifestation of Christ, the life of Christ through and as your life. Our hope in Christ is future, even now internally growing, and a currently present reality in us. Hope, by definition is want or expect something: to have a wish to get or do something or for something to happen or be true, especially something that seems possible or likely. Religion would find it convenient to relegate any conception of hope and the spiritual as either academics or a deferred maybe, maybe not. Our hope, in Christ, is a tree of life in us and to those around us. That is because our hope is not just a future hope deferred but is a current desire is fulfilled. Maturity in Christ is growing to realize the actuality of this current indwelling hope, and manifesting the resultant accompanying life - Eternal Life. It is not religious dogma - It is the character of Christ. Hope is something to be sought. Our hope is not something out there in the never never Our hope is in the ever present here and now. Christ in you, the hope of glory. Seek it.

According to or A = B
Rom. 8:17 says that if we are children of God by nature, then we are heirs of God, and joint, co-equal heirs with Christ, since we suffer with Him, that we may be glorified together with Him. Or as it is put in Tit. 3:7, we are heirs according to the hope of eternal life. In Rom. 5:2-5 we see how hope is being developed in us and as hope is developed, the love of God, nature of God, is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. We are heirs of God because of that nature (Rom. 8:17). We are heirs according to the hope of eternal life being developed in us. We need to look at the words "according to". This can be translated from the Greek a number of ways, and is used to denote "opposition, distribution or intensity". Taken in context with the writing of Tit. 3:7, here it could only refer to distribution or intensity. So we can now see that to the extent hope is developed in our lives, with the distribution or intensity of this development we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. We are heirs in proportion to the development of this hope and the consequential outpouring of the nature of God in our hearts and lives by the Holy Spirit. We are children and heirs because of the nature of God flowing through us by the Holy Spirit as a result of the development of hope in us. Excerpt - The Work of the Holy Spirit in the Development of Hope and God's Nature In Our Lives- That Grace Might Reign heirs of God, joint, co-equal heirs with Christ. We are promised an inheritance. (Gal. 3:29-Gal. 4:7; Gal. 4:2131; Rom. 4:13, 14; Titus 3:7; 1 Pet. 3:7; James 2:5; Heb. 11:9; Heb. 1:14; Heb. 11:7) (Matt. 25:34; Matt. 19:29; Heb. 6:12; 1 Pet. 3:9; Rev. 21:7; Prov. 3:35; Eph. 1:13, 14; Col. 3:24; Heb. 9:15; Gal. 3:18, 22; 1 Pet. 1:4; 1 Pet. 1:4; 1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Acts 20:32; Eph. 1:11, 12; 1 Cor. 15:5053) Just what is the object of this inheritance or the actual prize is too often the subject of debate. Is the language used to communicate the nature of our inheritance literal or figurative? To unequivocally demand a literal interpretation essentially denies Christ the right, privilege and option of communicating via parables or any other veiled communiqu. The Spirits use of cryptic language, Spiritual truths hidden from natural human understanding, but revealed by the Spirit to those with Spiritual ears to hear, has been and continues to be a means of openly, yet covertly, making known mysteries into the depths of the knowledge of God. The natural mind finds this offensive. The possibility that there are Spiritual depths that the natural mind is not privy too, or incapable of analyzing with the resources of reason, is not an acceptable option to the religious inclined.

Concepts of our heritage, inheritance, vary greatly, from the literal absolute not subject to discussion by many fundamentalist minds to the absolutely weird unfettered imaginative envisioned by some video game programmer (no offense intended). Floating on clouds wearing white robes playing harps. Wandering streets of Gold in the New Jerusalem. Counting the jewels in our crowns casting them before our Lord. carried by the angels to Abrahams bosomhe lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosomnow he is comforted here Just what our inheritance is, is not the subject here. It should suffice to understand that it will be glorious, beyond anything we can possibly imagine. And for each one of us, it may in all possible probability be different. I dont know, I can only speculate. The sure thing is You wont be disappointed. There is a concept that I have to take issue with. There is a perception that, when one receives Christ, is born again, that all rewards are the same. That salvation for the death bed convert translates into the same state of reward and glory as the saint proven faithful, responsive and in Spiritual fellowship and obedience in all their calling. We pull our proof text in Matt. 20:116, the laborers in the vineyard, and use it to explain the graciousness of God and the unmerited favor bestowed on all who come to Him. This is accurate as far is this goes, but the tendency is to equate the gift of salvation with the inheritance to be received. Not so fast Bubba. Heritage in the Kingdom, the inheritance, what you happen to be an heir of, IS relative - proportional - one size does not fit all. I am not advocating a works - reward faith, where faith and the exercise of our faith is the product of our determination. I am proclaiming, that as faith is worked out, as endowed by the Spirit and through the Spirit, faithfulness is rewarded as maturity is exercised. But we do not determine the process or set the situations according to our rules and standards. I can not earn more brownie points by determining to master my Bible verses. I am not saying that is a bad thing, but being able to quote the Bible is not the same as living in active relation and obedience to the Spirit. Through a process, and not a very comfortable or desirable process, the Spirit is active developing hope in us. The nature of Christ - in us - is the resultant outcome. His nature, progressively supplants our natural character. We can resist or embrace the process. To the degree that we do embrace it, and allow God, the Spirit, Christ in you to manifest their work - to that degree- we are joint-coequal heirs. You are co-equal with Christ - only to the degree that you allow Him, to be Him in and through you. according to the hope of eternal life - in you.

we suffer with Him, that we may be glorified

Rom. 8:17 says "since" we suffer with Him, that we may be glorified together with Him. From this verse we can see that we are children (by nature) and hence heirs, because we do suffer with Christ, or with Him in a like manner, to the end that we may be glorified together with Him. In Rom. 5:2-5 we find the love of God or nature of God poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit as a result of the development of hope, through tribulations working patience and patience, experience. It is because of this nature that we are children. In Rom. 8:17 we are children (by nature) since or because we suffer with Christ. In Rom. 5:5 we have this nature and are hence children (by nature) because of the tribulations we go through with the end result being hope, hope of the redemption of the body. The end result of Rom. 8:17 is that we may be glorified together with Christ. In Col. 1:27 says, "Christ in you," is "the hope of glory". Christ is our hope of being glorified. Now we see that each expression of hope refers to the same hope, the redemption of the body. We can understand from this that the hope of Rom. 5:5 and the glorified condition we will come into are the same. It is also clear to see that the formula in Rom. 5:2-5 and the formula of Rom. 8:16-17 are in fact the same. It can be broken down as follows:
Rom. 8:16- The Spirit bears witness with our human spirit that we are the children of God by nature. Rom. 5:5- The Holy Spirit sheds the love of God, or nature of God, abroad in our hearts, our spirits. Rom. 8:17- We are children by nature and heirs of God because we suffer with Christ in a like manner as He did. Rom. 5:2-5- It is through tribulations, patience and experience that hope is developed and the nature of God shed abroad in our hearts, which is the nature of our sonship. Tit.3:7, we are heirs in proportion to the development of hope, and consequential outpouring of God's love by the Holy Spirit. Rom 8:17- The end result of suffering in a like manner with Christ and being a child by the nature proceeding out of us, is that we may be glorified with Christ. Rom. 5:2-5- The end result of the tribulations we experience is the hope of redemption becomes clearer and more real in our lives. And this is the hope of glory, to be glorified with Christ, the hope of the redemption of the body, the consummation of the legal adoption God has already instigated.

Excerpt - The Work of the Holy Spirit in the Development of Hope and God's Nature In Our Lives- That Grace Might Reign

To Pop Christianity (of which I include most American contemporary Christianity) suffering is a deplorable state. And the blessing of God is more often measured by ones financial stability, good physical health, the accumulation of material possessions, and a respected reputation. None of which are of themselves bad or intrinsically evil, but as

benchmarks of Christian character and/or approval of God are certainly less than Biblically grounded. (Im sure some can do enough scripture twisting to make their point though). Isaiah 53:2-8 He has no form or comeliness [royal, kingly pomp], that we should look at Him, and no beauty that we should desire Him. He was despised and rejected and forsaken by men, a Man of sorrows and pains, and acquainted with grief and sickness; and like One from Whom men hide their faces He was despised, and we did not appreciate His worth or have any esteem for Him. yet we [ignorantly] considered Him stricken, smitten, and afflicted by God [as if with leprosy]. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement [needful to obtain] peace and well-being for us was upon Him, and with the stripes [that wounded] Him we are healed and made whole the Lord has made to light upon Him the guilt and iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, [yet when] He was afflicted, He was submissive and opened not His mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth. By oppression and judgment He was taken away; and as for His generation, who among them considered that He was cut off out of the land of the living [stricken to His death] since we suffer with him Our calling in Christ - is to be crucified with Him, I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life that I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 1 Cor 1:5 For just as Christs [own] sufferings fall to our lot [as they overflow upon His disciples, and we share and experience them] abundantly, so through Christ comfort (consolation and encouragement) is also [shared and experienced] abundantly by us. Col:24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [on our part] of Christs afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church. Who are we really trying to fool playing our religious, pseudo-spiritual bless me games? I am not advocating any sort of self abasement or Lets all suffer to gain the approval of God ideas here, but cant we get a proper perspective of the reality of what God wishes to accomplish in our lives. Why are our churches little more than High School social structures, popularity contests dominated by jocks and Prom Queens? Politicians and showmen? I read this story a few weeks ago. The Joan Wilson Story. I do not know Joan. A friend posted her story is familiar with more of her writings and posts this. She is one who understands the value of suffering, rejection and scorn. The lesson was not lost in her case. It was long and certainly not fair - but it grew its valued fruit. Wish I could claim half as much.

The Joan Wilson Story

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Glory revealed - Inheritance received

Rom. 8:18 says the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to be revealed in us. From Tit. 3:7 we understand that we are heirs in proportion to the hope we have. The glory to be revealed in us is our hope, the redemption of the body. The glory to be revealed in us is Jesus Christ Himself (I Tim. 1:1; Co1.1:27; I Jn. 3:2). There is no suffering or tribulation that can compare with that. But, our inheritance or what we are heirs of is something different. Our being heirs is not the same thing as the glory to be revealed in us. Our inheritance or our portion of the inheritance is not the redemption of the body. Gal. 3:29 says we are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise. In Heb. 6:17 we are referred to as "heirs of the promise". In Heb. 11:9 we see that Isaac and Jacob were heirs of the same promise with Abraham. So we are heirs of the same promise that was given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. James 2:5 says we are heirs of the kingdom God has promised to them that love Him. Heb. 11:10, after referring to the promise, says Abraham was looking for a city whose builder and maker was God. So we are heirs of the same promise God made to Abraham, or as put in Jas. 2:5, heirs of the kingdom which God has promised and this inheritance is proportional to the hope we have, the hope of Jesus Christ, the glory to be revealed in us, the redeemed body. Excerpt - The Work of the Holy Spirit in the Development of Hope and

Of Jesus Christ Hebrews 1:3 says He is the sole expression of the glory of God [the Light-being, the out-raying or radiance of the divine], and He is the perfect imprint and very image of [Gods] nature, upholding and maintaining and guiding and propelling the universe by His mighty word of power. When He had by offering Himself accomplished our cleansing of sins and riddance of guilt, He sat down at the right hand of the divine Majesty on high, There is glory to be revealed in us. As partakers and participants in the life of Christ, that Light being that radiance of the divine, would radiate through us. It is not of us, it is not directly controlled by us, but we can hinder, stifle, and potentially if not actually choke that life out of us. I will not be drawn into a once saved, always saved - free will v predestination argument that profits no one. It remains that saved or backslidden or lost, ignorance, lack of faith, wrong thinking and teaching, can and in too wide a reality in the church, keep the life of Christ through the Holy Spirit from manifesting as the life source of the organization known as church. Competing theologies, doctrines, creeds and all manner of human devises rob the church,

the people of God , of the only resource sufficient to accomplish that which the Gospel proclaims. The Bible is only sufficient as it is reinforced and enlivened by the same life force from God that originally authored its books and verse. God has never left His Church without a remnant, in relation to Him. Popular and dominant religion has seldom come close the expression of that radiant life. Recognitions of Spiritual life too often are recognized and then codified as a new theology and eventually incorporated into a creed. But codifying what God has done, and how He has worked, is not the same as experiencing God as He is working - before the theologians have a chance to debate and come to conclusions as to the relevancy of that Spiritual life. In His faithful, God will radiate. As He wills, He will turn on the light. It is not my light or your light, we are not in control of the switch, but we can close the shutters, we can choose to blow it out. We can choose to subjugate it to religious norms, and hide it in a closet, out of sight of religious respectability. Huh ----How many of us are closet Christians? Maybe its time we came out, or better said - Let God out. I dont mean to imply a hyper exaggerated youth rally sort of zealousness. I mean - just let God out - Let Him be Him. Let Christ live in you - through you. It is as this, His, radiant light shines through you, that the glory to be revealed in you IS revealed in you. It has nothing to do with pep rally tactics and twisting peoples arms, and shouting from the roof tops, and in all sorts of manners making a religious pest and nuisance of yourself. It is simply Jesus Christ in you, being Jesus Christ through you. Too many, love is just a four letter word, and particularly when understood in relation to the reputation of much of the Evangelical community. The world is not fooled by our religious talk, the nice church faces we put on. As Jesus Christ is revealed - through us - the subject of inheritance gains substance. I have already commented that what all that may involve, at best is speculative and debatable. It is not something that really warrants our attention. It suffices to recognize that it wont disappoint. Our attention and concern needs to be properly centered and focused on Christ in you, the hope of Glory, and living in relation to Him radiating through you. Inheritance, whatever it may be, or can be, is subject to the out working of that life through you. Historically, legally, we have been redeemed. Practically, we are in the process of being redeemed. This practical out working, or Sanctification (I know other religious words

too), resulting from the firstfruits of the [Holy] Spirit [a foretaste of the blissful things to come], is, I believe, an actual preview of the redemption of the body for which we wait to be revealed at our adoption (our manifestation as Gods sons).

Likewise the Spirit

"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:26,27 The first thing to make itself apparent in this passage, "Likewise the Spirit also", indicates that in a "like manner" as previously exhibited, the Holy Spirit goes on to some further work. What has the Spirit done prior to what it is about to do? This refers directly back to the passage of Rom. 8:16 where the Spirit "bears witness with our spirit" that we are the children of God by the nature which proceeds from us. In a comparative study of Rom. 5:2-5 we can see that it is the Holy Spirit pouring out this nature in our lives. So, "in a like manner" as this, similar to the outpouring of this nature, the Spirit goes on to a further work.

If I have not convinced you, by this time, that I am a heretic, this might do it. To religious systems, what I will state may be anathema. At least, unless it is thought threw, followed to its logical ends, and considered in the fullness of all that is implied, but cannot necessarily be reduced to a simple, rhetorical catch phrase. Besides the potential for challenging a religiosity convenient to managing the masses. Remember the motion picture How Green Was My Valley? When I was young - it was boring. As I matured - I had to consider whether I wanted to watch it, knowing it would begin to evoke feelings I was not comfortable with. These days - the values expressed family, honor, faith - I cannot help recall scenes from my own early years, a desire to pass on values to my own children, changes that seem to be tearing everything apart. In John Ford's HOW GREEN IS MY VALLEY, Huw Morgan, now a middle-aged man leaving the mining town of Cwm Rhondda, recalls the events that most impressed themselves upon his younger self (Roddy McDowall). His first memories are of the marriage of his brother, Ivor (Patric Knowles), and the burgeoning romance of his sister, Angharad (Maureen O'Hara), and the new preacher, Mr. Gruffydd (Walter Pidgeon). Still too young to work in the local coal mine like his father, Gwilym (Donald Crisp), and his five older brothers, he senses the seriousness of an imminent strike by the rift it creates between his father and the other boys when three of them move out of the family abode. During the tensions of the strike, Huw saves his mother (Sara Allgood) from drowning and in so doing loses the use of his legs. As Gruffydd aids in Huw's recovery, insisting on a positive attitude, he suggests that it is only the first of many trials the boy will have to

face. There is a scene where Mr. Gruffydd is ministering to young Huw about prayer. He makes a statement that Prayer is nothing more than clear thinking. As a fundamental evangelical, I found this offensive. It didnt meet my religious standard. How could one pray and not do it In Jesus Name? How could one pray, and not assume some proper religious reverential, respectful positioning before our great God and Creator? How could I pray without properly preparing myself to enter the Holy of Holies? What about proper abasement and repentance? Religiosity - excessively or sentimentally religious: excessively, sentimentally, or affectedly pious Dont get the idea that I do not endorse praying In the name of Jesus, or advocate a less than reverential, respectful attitude before God, or repentance of sin. The issue is Do we really know what we are talking about? or Are we caught up in a lot of religious stuff that has been passed down to us based on less than complete understandings of language, concepts, and inordinate reverence for teaching and teachers used by God but who only received and perceived a portion and not the complete mind of God.. Have we made incomplete revealed truth and past religious concepts our snakes on a stick (Numbers 21:8, 2 Kings 18:4), thwarting the revelation of the indwelling God. But didnt Jesus teach us to pray?

Matthew 6:9-13 Pray, then, in this way:

Luke 11:2-4 And He said to them, When you pray, say: Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come.

Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

Give us each day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, For we ourselves also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.

And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.] ------------------Followed up with teaching on forgiveness

---------------------Followed up with teaching on persistence in praying

Yup. And what is the intent of the prayer here as taught by Jesus? Is it an actual prayer intended to be recited religiously (in unison) as a religious function in a worship service? Is it a model or mold that we fill in the blanks, and make sure we touch all the requisite bases to satisfy Gods need for proper religious order? Is this set in stone? Or is it representative of what should be a heart, submitted to God, yearning for His will, satisfied- forgiving and forgiven, faithful and perseverant. we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us - The Spirit - in us - does for us, what we can not. And likewise, as maturity of character - the life of Christ, is grown in us, in like manner the Spirit prays for us, and continues the work of enlightening our minds. It is not academics - it is the Spirit. It is not (necessarily) an educated mind - it is a renewed mind. And, in relation to God in you, the Spirit and what He is doing, Prayer is nothing more than clear thinking.

Infirm Saints
The Spirit goes on to "help" with our "infirmities". What is or are the "infirmities" which the Spirit is supposed to help with? From the phrase immediately following we know it has something to do with our not knowing what we should pray for and how to pray as we should. An infirmity is a "weakness, a want of strength" and it could be used to refer to either some physical weakness or to some lacking in the soul or spirit. We need to know just what "infirmities" the Spirit is helping us with. So, let us look at these two verses (Rom. 8:26,27) without the inclusion of the Holy Spirit. First, we have "infirmities". Second, we do not know what to pray for or how to pray. Third, hearts are being searched. Now we already know that our "infirmities" are some sort of weakness we have, and as a result of the "infirmities" we cannot pray properly. But thus far we know little about this matter of the "hearts" being searched. In verse 26 the Holy Spirit is making intercession for us because of our infirmities and our inability to pray. In verse 27 the Holy Spirit is making intercession for the saints. Paul is writing to those who are called to be saints (Rom. 1:7). So the "our" and "we" of verse 26 are already saints. When the Holy Spirit makes intercession for the "saints", he is making intercession for the "us" of verse 26. Since we are the one's being aided by the Spirit, for our infirmities and inability to pray by the Spirit's intercession, we can go on to conclude that when the Spirit makes intercession according to the will of God, it is our hearts that are being searched.

infirmity (plural infirmities) n 1. lack of strength: lack of strength and vitality 2. character flaw: a weakness or failing in somebodys character 3. minor illness: any medical condition that causes a lack of strength or vitality astheneia /astheniah/] translates as infirmity 17 times, weakness five times, disease once, and sickness once. 1 want of strength, weakness, infirmity. 1A of the body. 1A1 its native weakness and frailty. 1A2 feebleness of health or sickness. 1B of the soul. 1B1 want of strength and capacity requisite. 1B1A to understand a thing. 1B1B to do things great and glorious. 1B1C to restrain corrupt desires. 1B1D to bear trials and troubles. We are broken - damaged goods - seconds This is not a popular notion. It is one of the concepts of Christianity that Fundamentalists

have figured out, but seemed to have found themselves stuck in a rut with because they havent come to a clear understanding of how God is able to practically work through the condition. Sure there is an understanding of Christ and his work on the cross and how that applies to us legally, and theyve devised umpteen million discipleship methods to accomplish their conception of sanctification, but few have any real understanding of the inner and outward working of the Spirit that is not subjugated to their particular methodology. The faith for sanctification is in the program, the training, the 12 steps. These things in and of themselves are not necessarily bad, but neither are they essentially the expression of faith in God. They may well build and elicit positive habitual behaviors founded on Biblical principles - But principles are not the Spirit - Every religion, every ideology can advocate a set of principles that may well induce certain positive social interrelations - But principles are not the life of God - principles are not the person of Christ. Principles are ideas - deduced abstractions. Christianity has degenerated into sets of principles that can produce a mechanical response from the faithful similar to that of Pavlovs dog. Is it any wonder that a seeking world, hungry for the life of God, would reject such a perverse concept of what we are selling as the real thing? Yes we are broken - but we do have hope. And that hope is not the religious 12 steps, or even four spiritual laws extrapolated to accommodate and simplify the religious necessity of the mass religion marketers. Yes we are broken - and our hope is in the indwelling Spirit of Christ. We are individual persons - and He, the Spirit of God, accommodates and adapts His program to each of us, as we are, where we are, in personal communion, and not as mass produced, assembly line widgets. We are not dogs, subject to religious conditioning. Unless of course, thats the way you want it. I love my dogs - and they love me. But I believe I would rather have a relation with God as a human being, than as a dog. It is the Spirit that provides the ability to raise our relation to God above that of the rest of Gods creation. I want to clarify this idea. We, mankind, as created in the image of God, have used our ability to dominate creation without regard for creation, but as selfish spoiled kids not giving a damn for anything but ourselves. Yes we are broken. As the Spirit, not religion, but the Spirit of Christ, produces His work in us, renewing us in His image, proper concern and responsibility for the care of the creation entrusted to us should be a manifest evidence of that inner Spiritual life. That is not a command or a legalism. Just my personal questioning. In religion, when concerns are confined to the purely religious and in recent years economically advantageous, I can not help but wonder Is there Life there that transcends the religious?

You gotta have HEART

A couple of questions arise here. Who is doing the searching, and what is it exactly that is being searched? We will address ourselves to the first question. Who is searching our hearts? To search is to examine into "a thing". So who is examining our hearts? Psalm 44:21 says, "God will search...he knoweth the secrets of the heart." Psalm 139:23, "Search me, O God, and know my heart." Jeremiah 17:10, "I, the Lord, search the heart..." Psalm 139:1, "The Lord has searched me..." I Chronicles 28:9, "The Lord searcheth all hearts." It does not take a great deal of insight to see that it is God who searches and examines our hearts. Now that we know that it is God who is searching our hearts, what is He going to find? Genesis 8:21 says, "...the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth;" Jeremiah 17:9 says, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked:" In Mark 7:21,22, Jesus said, "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:" This is the condition of man's heart. The heart denotes the center of all physical and spiritual life, the middle, central or inmost part of anything. An in depth study will show that this inmost part of us is full of iniquity, loves evil, is depraved, wayward, blind, instable, hard, deceitful, proud, subtle, sensual, worldly, malicious, impenitent, diabolical, covetous, foolish, and judicially hardened. Excerpt - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit - That Grace Might Reign Depressed Yet? Chill But you say This - full of iniquity, loves evil, is depraved, wayward, blind, instable, hard, deceitful, proud, subtle, sensual, worldly, malicious, impenitent, diabolical, covetous, foolish, and judicially hardened - this is not me. I am none of this. Well - fine then. Jesus said Those who are strong and well (healthy) have no need of a physician, but those who are weak and sick. Matthew 9:12. Those who are strong and well have no need of a physician, but those who are weak and sick; I came not to call the righteous ones to repentance, but sinners (the erring ones and all those not free from sin). Mark 2:17

If its not you, its not my problem. If the shoe doesnt fit, dont wear it. But remember, it was Jesus who said For from within, [that is] out of the hearts of men, come base and wicked thoughts, sexual immorality, stealing, murder, adultery, Coveting (a greedy desire to have more wealth), dangerous and destructive wickedness, deceit; unrestrained (indecent) conduct; an evil eye (envy), slander (evil speaking, malicious misrepresentation, abusiveness), pride (the sin of an uplifted heart against God and man), foolishness (folly, lack of sense, recklessness, thoughtlessness). All these evil [purposes and desires] come from within, and they make the man unclean and render him unhallowed. Mark 7:21-23. If Jesus appraisal of the hearts of mankind is not accurate, in your assessment, then I guess you dont need Jesus. Its no sweat off my back. But if, and only IF, you may have in any small way violated your presumed pure conscience, maybe it would be worth reconsidering Jesus place in your life. For the rest of us, who really know how screwed up we really are, and have come to realize our best simply is not going to cut it, There is Jesus. And Him, in us - in me - in you. Not the 12 steps, four spiritual laws, or any other program. The solution to our problem is not a program or principles, it is a person. Legally, the man Jesus - His work on the cross and Resurrection from the dead. Pragmatically - the Holy Spirit - outpoured and indwelling and outworking His life in and through us, renewing our hearts and minds in the image of Him who redeemed us. Chill out dude - Whats me worry? Alfred E. Newman (philosopher)

a real problem FOR US

This would seem to be a real problem for us. And to be sure, "for us", on our own it is. But, let us see how God dealt with the situation. In Genesis 6:5, "God saw the wickedness of man was great, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually"- God wished He had not made man. So He decided to destroy man, and all the other creatures He made, from off the face of the earth. Genesis 6:8, "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" Noah found grace. The word for grace in this passage gives a picture of "the greater" stooping or bending down to bestow upon another. God looked down and bestowed His favor upon Noah. This is what made Noah different than all others of the same generation, God's grace or favor. As a result of this grace Noah was a just man and perfect in his generation and he walked with God. But God's grace came first. Noah went on to obey God, to build the ark, gather the animals into the ark along with his wife and sons and daughters. God proceeded to flood the earth and destroy all living creatures upon the earth. The waters receded, the ark grounded, Noah and his family came out along with all the animals, Noah built an altar unto the Lord and offered burnt offerings. In verse 21 of Genesis 8, the Lord respected the offering and made a promise not to curse the ground any more for man's sake, as He had done. In the middle of this verse we see that something from before the flood had not changed, "the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth." Man's heart was still basically the same. Noah and his family escaped the destruction and were able to perpetuate the human race because of one thing, God's grace. Excerpt - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit - That Grace Might Reign

How about Abraham? In Genesis 12:1, we find the first record of the Lord and Abram, as he was then called. "Now the Lord said unto Abram". Here it is God who establishes a relationship with Abram. Genesis 15:6 says Abram believed God and God counted his belief for righteousness- What we have is God reaching out to Abram and Abram being counted righteous, not because of any righteousness, or goodness of his own, except that he trusted God to do something. And that trust or faith was the basis for God establishing a righteousness (a right standing before God) in Abram, which Abram could not establish himself. It was God who accounted Abram righteous. This accounting of righteousness to Abram was before the covenant rite of circumcision (Gen. 17), or the giving of the Law to the descendants of Abraham. Excerpt - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit - That Grace Might Reign Occasionally, I find myself in agreement with an influential evangelical author on a particular point, although my agreement on particular issues is seldom to the same ends as the author may intend. The Old Testament believers were saved with the same salvation, were indebted to the same Redeemer, were renewed by the same Spirit, and were partakers of the same heavenly inheritance as are New Testament believers. A. W. Pink Arthur Walkington Pink was an evangelist and Biblical scholar known for his Calvinist and puritan teachings"the widespread circulation of his writings after his death made him one of the most influential evangelical authors in the second half of the twentieth century." His writing sparked a revival of expository preaching and focused readers' hearts on biblical living. - Wikipedia Pink was not a Dispensationalist. The method or scheme according to which God carries out his purposes towards men is called a dispensation. There are usually reckoned three dispensations, the Patriarchal, the Mosaic or Jewish, and the Christian (although these can be expanded or further divided). These were so many stages in Gods unfolding of his purpose of grace toward men. The word is not found with this meaning in Scripture. In our attempts to make sense of it all, our human tendency is to subdivide and categorize complex things into easier to manage chunks, and the then reconstruct and put it all back together into what we perceive as an orderly, well defined, intellectually accessible whole. From this we can mix and match the parts as suits our particular need. Issues such as the nature of God, salvation, sanctification, eschatology, and a billion other ologies all find there proper well defined niche in our sanctified Systematic Theology. Pink had a good head on his shoulders, but when it came to his conception of the Holy

Spirit (and this may have been a matter of his place in history), apart from the Spirits activity in relation to the Word, or more precisely the Bible, the Spirit is inactive. I.e. the Spirits activity is dependent upon the preaching of the Word. It is here that I part company with Mr. Pink. Following Pinks (and most Fundamentalist/Evangelical) thinking, the Spirit is dependent upon the Word. That is putting the cart before the horse. The Word (and I believe the use of the word Word as extracted from the Bible is misused and misinterpreted), or as we have chosen to define it as the Bible, is the creation of its author, the Holy Spirit. As such, it is the Word - the Bible, that is dependent upon the Spirit. The Spirit may and does substantiate or authenticate the preaching of the Bible - the Word (in this definition) - but it is not the Bible, or the words in it that are the particularly holy, it is the Spirit that is holy and communicates the words that are recorded in the Book - the Bible. The Word has been, and is, continually active and speaking in current history and in ancient and prerecorded history back to the time of creation. Before there was a Bible - there was the Word. Our Bible is only a small recorded portion of the Words activity in history. Our Bibles may be our most objective resource to assess the activity of the Spirit, but that does not equate it as the Word. It is not the Bible that activates the life of the Spirit - It is the Spirit that enlivens our limited recordings of the Word contained in the Bible. The Old Testament believers were saved with the same salvation, were indebted to the same Redeemer, were renewed by the same Spirit, and were partakers of the same heavenly inheritance as are New Testament believers. Pink stated this correctly. And to think - they didnt even have a Bible.

Circumcision of the heart

We are told in Deuteronomy chapter 30, that after experiencing both the blessing and the curse of the Law, there is a time to return to the Lord and obey him with all our heart. It is at this time the Lord will turn our captivity, and have compassion on us. At this time, when our relationship becomes a heart matter, rather than just that of obeying laws, "...the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart...to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live." (Deuteronomy 30:6). Circumcision becomes more than just a religious ritual, God is taking action on our hearts. God goes to work on our hearts to make it possible to love Him with all our hearts and souls and the result being that we may live. God does something which man was not able to do through the physical act of circumcision, or by obeying laws He has given. He affects our hearts. Romans 2:29 says, "...he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter..." From this we have a deeper understanding about our hearts. When the Lord performs the circumcision of our hearts, He is doing a work in our spirits. Psalm 51:10 puts it this way, "Create in me a clean heart, and renew a right spirit within me." Ezekiel 11:9 says, "I (the Lord) will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you..." Ezekiel 18:31 speaking of repentance says, "...and make you a new heart and a new spirit:" and Ezekiel 36:26, "A new heart will I (the Lord) give you, and a new spirit will I put within you." Excerpt - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit - That Grace Might Reign Circumcision - removal of males foreskin: the removal of all or part of the foreskin from the penis As a sign of the covenant God made with Abraham (Genesis 17:10-14) God commanded that Abraham and all your posterity after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. Ouch!!! Circumcision for many, if not most males in the U.S., is a medical procedure performed by a doctor in a hospital prior to the infant baby boy being released to go home. In Judaism, a Rabbi performs this procedure as instructed by the Scriptures. Circumcision has been a religious rite within numerous ancient religions, and not just Judaism. As an infant only a few days old, I can not begin to recollect the experience. I find it extremely difficult trying to imagine an adult male required to submit to the procedure. Oh my G------- Oouuch!!!!! Eeeeeeh Gads - THAT IS LOVE FOR GOD.

For most - and I would contend either Jew or Gentile - having been circumcised (in the flesh) at such an early age, as a religious expression, circumcision holds virtually NO value or internal heart significance. Im sure there are religious Jews who would argue otherwise, but since submission was never really an act of the individuals will to accept it or reject it, the significance is really more applicable to ones parents than the infant recipient. No matter. How many, circumcised as infants, can actually recall the indignity experienced and relate the pain endured? I might ask the same or similar questions regarding infant baptism, but thats another subject and presently not worth the argument. Deuteronomy 30 seems to imply that it is possible to maintain a religious devotion, obeying and keeping the commandments, experiencing the blessings of the Law, and/or also disobedience and subsequent curse of the Law, and yet there is an experience of God still to be realized. In a sense, it is possible to do everything right, and still not be right. Blessed and yet foreign, detached as to relation and intimacy with God. Now, this is not just New Testament theology, this is Old Testament - the second giving or re-counting of the Law. Just in case they didnt get it the first time. God is saying Its not about all this religious stuff - Its about Me. Go ahead, obey, if you can. When youve realized you cant, Ill be here. And I will do in you what no man can. When you are ready, youll know Ive been waiting. And I will deal with your heart. And I will renew your heart and spirit and you will know what it is to love Me. Christian religion has created and espoused a hundred different ideas about being filled with the Spirit, being baptized in or with the Spirit, being carnal or Spiritual, in the flesh or Holy separated, and what ever other concoction you can devise. Some may express more actual Biblical value than others, but most, no matter how well or long may be argued ultimately are our theological best guess based on our particular brand of religious dogma adhered to as foundational. I have been in and appreciate the positive values expressed by both extreme orthodox conservative religion and unrestricted, unrestrained charismatic excess. By excess I do not necessarily discount what I have come to realize as valid Spiritual experiences. I use the term rather as a point of reference, but still valid - regardless of the negative connotations imposed by more conservative religion. Conservative theologians criticize Charismatic/Pentecostals for interpreting scripture based on their peculiar experiences. In this, I believe the criticism is justified. Charismatic/Pentecostals do tend to impose, as absolute, their particular experience as the benchmark of what is expressed in scripture. And for one not to experience this Biblical experience, negates the possibility of them being as Spiritually endowed.

But in so applying their criticism, Conservative theologians tend to invalidate the expression of any experience as emotionalism, psychologically induced hysteria, any thing but God. In so doing they confine God to the text of the Bible in a manner that they can conveniently control and maintain a proper religious order. The keepers of the faith become the dispensers of God. But what happens when God decides to circumcise a heart. What does the removal of a fleshly religious foreskin look like? Is it as simple as a decision and a signature, a cognitive assent and assimilation of a new religious manner? Or is there pain involved? Is it manifest the same in everyone? Ive written about my mashed potatoes experience (To what do you direct your mind?). No - I wasnt playing with or piling up mashed potatoes - I became mashed potatoes - My religious rug was pulled out from under me and I went down - splat - and God did the mashed potatoes. psychologically induced hysteria Yeah Right. But thats all some will ever believe. Did it hurt? - In my heart - You bet. Uncontrollable weeping, wrenching over in spiritual and emotional agony. And it took a while to understand what was happening. All I could realize at the time was I was doing it all wrong. I was not relating to God as He wanted. Oh yes I was religious, and orthodox, and charismatic - But it was all religion. I wasnt relating to my children as a father in the image of God - I was a dictatorial religionist expecting all to adjust to my religious and patriarchal standard. And I wasnt the one who could fix it. It was - IS - all dependant on Him. That was summer 2000 - the adventure begins.

Hearts searched, spirits examined - God steps in

Let us go back to one of our original questions, "What is being searched?" God is searching our hearts. Romans 2:29 teaches us that when something is done in the heart, and in this case circumcision, it is done in the spirit. So when our hearts are being searched, our spirits, or our spiritual condition is being examined. Genesis 8:21, Jeremiah 17:9, and Mark 7:21,22 tell us what our spiritual condition is. We are unable to change this. This is our inherent nature. That nature which was passed down to us from our forefathers in the flesh since the time of Adam. Romans 6:19 and Galatians 4:13 refer to this as the "infirmity of the flesh". In each instance we have mentioned, Noah, Abraham, those under the taw, God's means for overcoming this "infirmity of the flesh", "the nature of man's heart", has been by his stepping into the picture and doing for those involved what they could not do themselves. With Noah, he found "God's grace", Abraham trusted or believed God, therefore God declared him righteous. Those under the Law would have their hearts circumcised by God in order that they could love God with all their heart. Jesus said, "They that worship God must worship him in spirit and in truth..." (John 4:23,24). The word for "worship" in John 4:23,24, and the word for "pray" in Romans 8:26 come from the same root, which denotes "motion towards, accession to". In both cases (Rom. 8:26 and John 4:23~24), it refers to our approaching God. We must approach God in spirit. We do not know how to approach God as we should or for what purpose (Rom. 8:26). The reason we do not know how or for what is because of our natural spiritual condition. This is the infirmity that the Spirit must deal with. God must take action himself to do in us what we are unable to do. God must create in us a clean heart and renew a right spirit" within us. We need a new heart and a new spirit that only God can give. This God has done in the person of the Holy Spirit.

Im probably not really all that unorthodox in my Christian theology. Except where arbitrary absolutes are expected to be embraced. These arbitraries generally and usually being founded on incompleteness or laziness of thought and reasoning, or sloppy Biblical exegesis. The unfortunate fact is - theres a hell of a lot of crap out there being passed off as the Gospel. The crazy thing is I can understand where a lot of this bull shit is coming from. Sometimes I feel like Im thigh deep in a cesspool of you know what, and my knee high rubber boots are filling up.

I also believe Im more of a social creature than what I have been experiencing in recent months. I want people to like me, and despite my cool reserved manner, I like people. But, if shallow religious social norms are the requisite for fellowship and acceptance, I fear I may be destined to live my life withdrawn and secluded. This is not as bad as it may sound, because I am not alone. I do have fellowship. There is Mr. and Mrs. Cardinal. Mr. Cardinal makes appearances in the morning and late afternoon. Mrs. Cardinal is less active, but usually turns up late afternoon or early evening. There are the Warblers. They are around most of the day. Unless it gets too hot. Their fledgling keeps them busy. Just learning to fly, but cant handle more than two feet at a time in a frantic flutter of wings and a prayer. More than once hes found solid ground. Ive found myself rescuing him from the two most faithful of my congregation. Not that they mean harm, they just play a bit rough and havent wholly learned to restrain themselves and care for the weaker ones. Occasionally Mr. Chipmunk will make an appearance, but he has a definite problem with the faithful regulars. And of course there is Mr. Bunny (aka: Roadkill, Buggs). Always there in regular attendance, but confined in his cage (the silent type, keeps very much too him self). He gets along well with the faithful regulars, but then, he isnt any competition. And then there are the faithful two. Always there. A combined three hundred pounds of love, faithfulness and play. I fear I am the most protected man in the U.S.. No Arab fundamentalist terrorist need bother come around here threatening to blow himself up on my porch. Chew your ass up (and let you live - suffer a bit - feel the pain). Come to think of it, maybe that explains why I dont get many visits from Christian fundamentalists - or why my Mormon neighbors dont have missionaries (in their Holy underwear) stop by anymore. As a matter of fact - its been a while since Ive heard from the Jehovahs Witnesses. About 14 or 15 years ago, my family was between churches. A couple renting a house across the street from us were planting a church supported through their denomination on the other side of the county, and since we had no current fellowship, my wife and I felt obligated to check out this couples church service. It was mid summer, so attendance may have been off. We entered the old, rented church building they were using, and found a seat about the third pew back. There were two other individual ladies and the organist in attendance. We sang some hymn, maybe a second, I dont recall, sat down - and I wish we had been warned to fasten our seat belts, because we were in for a ride. This brother launched into a hell fire and brimstone sermon that would put the fear of God into Christ Himself. I felt like my hands were gripping the pew in front of me and holding on so tight, my knuckles turned white. His face became so red I thought he was going to bust an artery or pop like a balloon and fly uncontrollably around the sanctuary. Do you remember the movie Sergeant York with Gary Cooper. Walter Brennan played a Tennessee mountain pastor. York was converted and Pastor (Walter) was leading the congregation in a Hymn sing. Cross that image with Burt Lancasters Elmer Gantry, and I think that would be a close approximation of this worship service.

At service end, I had to get out of there as quick as I could. I had to get to the door before the pastor made it back there. I couldnt shake his hand and carry on polite niceties. Was I offended. You can bet your ass I was. Was I offended at what he preached. NO. I couldnt possibly have been. I didnt hear two words that he said. I dont have hardly any idea of what the content of his message may have been. I can only assume, based on the knowledge I had of his denomination, what I knew of his history in another local church within that denomination, that the content of the message would have been substantially right on. The problem was that in his zeal to preach the Gospel, the congregation, those whom he would communicate with, became objects, to be bombasted with (his perceived) high sounding religious stuff. There were five people (including the organist) and He was preaching in a fantasy stadium, because Billy Graham couldnt make it. He stopped by later that Sunday afternoon to ask me what I thought. I made the mistake of telling him the truth. In the immortal words from Cool Hand Luke, What we have here, is a failure - to communicate. There are elements of the Gospel message that that many good, God desirous people find offensive. It is not a matter of the messenger or how the message is conveyed, it is the content of the message. Or - maybe, it is the way the message has been conveyed in the past AND insufficiently disclosing the entirety of the message. Because the GOOD NEWS of the message rests on first realizing the bad news in order to apprehend the GOOD. IF the connecting, relating the GOOD in relation to the bad, is not clearly and completely communicated - in a manner of spiritual sensitivity (relating to persons and not objects), what we have is a failure - to communicate. Too much of what is preached is miscommunication. As a result, Evangelicalism, while assuming right doctrine, proselytizes via apologetics and argument rather than Spiritual relation. By miscommunication I mean - the right words, valid concepts, Biblical truth (valid or perceived), applied by human effort devoid of Spiritual life that communes in depths of being and means sufficient impart itself and draw into common union all the Spirit wills. Knowing little more than religious miscommunication, there are those who would pick and choose of the Gospel message as they will. Ultimately only to swing the pendulum to another extreme. This inability to communicate is not first and ultimately with each other. It is the by product of our disconnection and alienation with the ultimate. Disjointed and out of relation with the Spirit of God, our ability to relate to God, let alone each other, is subject to human spiritual resources. Our ability to receive Spiritual truth, no mater how good or bad, is subject to our own whimsy.

We pick and choose whatever sounds best to us at any particular time, whatever meets our need. We decide we like the idea of a loving Jesus, and a message of hope, tolerance and acceptance. And we pick and choose what Bible books are reasonable to include in our personal kerugma, and discard what ever we find personally offensive, or may be offensive, or may not fit our perception of Christs love. We start with the four Gospels - well - theyre Okay. They tell us about Jesus. Maybe the book of Acts - thats actually the Gospel of Luke part 2. But we might have to skip over some of this miraculous stuff. The Epistles of Paul - Nah- they dont hold weight. He wasnt an actual eyewitness and theres too much there that is just toooooo weird and not to mention chauvinistic. And the Old Testament is mostly myth and fairy tales, maybe a few moral fables. Well! - be that way! But remember it was Jesus who said "For from within, [that is] out of the hearts of men, come base and wicked thoughts, sexual immorality, stealing, murder, adultery, Coveting (a greedy desire to have more wealth), dangerous and destructive wickedness, deceit; unrestrained (indecent) conduct; an evil eye (envy), slander (evil speaking, malicious misrepresentation, abusiveness), pride (the sin of an uplifted heart against God and man), foolishness (folly, lack of sense, recklessness, thoughtlessness). All these evil [purposes and desires] come from within, and they make the man unclean and render him unhallowed." Mark 7:21-23 and For out of the heart come evil thoughts (reasonings and disputings and designs) such as murder, adultery, sexual vice, theft, false witnessing, slander, and irreverent speech.. Matthew 15:19 This IS the BAD NEWS, but it is not the end of the news. Jesus did not come to condemn For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him. He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnationhe incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christs name.] John 3:17-18 And the GOOD NEWS IS God is not leaving us in that Mark 7:21-23, Matthew 15:19 depraved spiritual state. Yes we are royally screwed up in our natural state. If you can not accept that, then you have just tossed out the Gospels of Mark and Matthew and you apparently arent screwed up enough to need the Gospel of John, so you might as well toss that one out too. As a

matter of fact, Luke was never an eyewitness to anything Jesus did or said, he only recorded the testimonies of others. That would never be admissible in any court of law, so - I guess well have to chuck that too. It doesnt leave us with very much, does it? Well, weve got the Spirit. True. BUT How many have actually come to realize the Person of Christ, the Life in the Spirit, or the nature of God, apart from the testimony as recorded in the Bible? I do not deny extraordinary epiphanies - But - is that the norm? Is that the Gospel? Without the Bible, How do you know what the Gospel is? Id be interested in hearing. We cannot worship, we cannot pray, we cannot in any way shape or manner approach God - apart from His intervention. The Good News is - God has done this - In Christ on the cross - and now the Holy Spirit in You. In the Spirit we can communicate. Lord - help us cut out the religious crap.

meet with God

Romans 8:26 says, "...we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." And Romans 8:27 says, God "...knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession according to the will of God." We are unable of ourselves to pray, or to approach God for the purpose of supplication, because of our natural spiritual condition. So, the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us using groanings which cannot be uttered and this He does according to the will of God. There are two words used for the intercession that the Spirit does on our behalf. In verse 26, "makes intercession" merely means "to intercede for another", "to plead on anothers behalf", but the word used in verse 27 goes into a bit mere detail. In verse 27 the intercession done by the Holy Spirit means "to go to or meet a person especially for the purpose of conversation, consultation or supplication, (for the purpose of consulting about a person), to make petition, to pray, to entreat." We cannot approach God ourselves, but the Holy Spirit approaches God in our place. Through the Holy Spirit we find the ability to talk to God, to seek God's advice and lay hold of God's wisdom, to bring our supplications and petitions' before God and to entreat God either on the behalf of others or ourselves. Of our own ability, our own spiritual condition, we would be unable to do any of this. But now, through the Holy Spirit we can meet with God. Excerpt - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit - That Grace Might Reign Then one of the scribes came up and listened to them disputing with one another, and, noticing that Jesus answered them fitly and admirably, he asked Him, Which commandment is first and most important of all [in its nature]? Jesus answered, The first and principal one of all commands is: Hear, O Israel, The Lord our God is one Lord; And you shall love the Lord your God out of and with your whole heart and out of and with all your soul (your life) and out of and with all your mind (with your faculty of thought and your moral understanding) and out of and with all your strength. This is the first and principal commandment. [Deut. 6:4, 5.] The second is like it and is this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these. [Lev. 19:18.] And the scribe said to Him, Excellently and fitly and admirably answered, Teacher! You have said truly that He is One, and there is no other but Him; And to love Him out of and with all the heart and with all the understanding [with the faculty of quick apprehension and intelligence and keenness of discernment] and with all the strength, and to love ones neighbor as oneself, is much more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. [I Sam. 15:22; Hos. 6:6; Mic. 6:6-8; Heb. 10:8.] And when Jesus saw that he answered intelligently (discreetly and having his wits about him), He said to him, You are not far from the kingdom of God. And after that no one ventured or dared to ask Him any further question.And in

[the course of] His teaching, He said, Beware of the scribes, who like to go around in long robes and [to get] greetings in the marketplaces [public forums], And [have] the front seats in the synagogues and the chief couches (places of honor) at feasts, Who devour widows houses and to cover it up make long prayers. They will receive the heavier [sentence of] condemnation. Mark 12:28-40 Who were the scribes? Scribes were: Transcribers of legal contracts (Jer. 32:12), Keepers of records (Jer. 36:25, 26), Advisers in state affairs (1 Chr. 27:32), Custodians of draft records (2 Kin. 25:19), Collectors of temple revenue (2 Kin. 12:10), Teacher of the Law (Ezra 7:6, 10, 12). In New Testament times, their: Righteousness was external (Matt. 5:20), Teaching was without authority (Matt. 7:29). Their attitude toward Christ: Accusing Him of blasphemy (Mark 2:6, 7), Seeking to accuse (Luke 6:7), Questioning His authority (Luke 20:1, 2). Christs attitude toward them: Exposes them (Matt. 23:13 36), Condemns them (Luke 20:46, 47), Calls them hypocrites (Matt. 15:19). The Scribes were the religious and legal (and economic) power brokers - Lawyers People of influence - The guys with the clout, the means to control - the ones controlling the purse strings - the ones who had something to loose, should there be a change of administration, a change in thinking or the order of things - the ones who had mastered the system, who knew the ins and outs and could manipulate situations and circumstances to their advantage. In ancient Jewish culture, the political, religious and economic systems where integral to each other. These systems influenced each other and were not isolated or independent as not to impact each other. In Jewish culture, a scribe would have intimate understanding of all these systems as being interrelated. Each one being only a part of the whole of what constitutes a well functioning society. One scribe expert, could virtually deal with many issues, which to us in modern times, might seem unrelated. In our current times we have separated church from state and are perpetually entangled in battles attempting to define the place of each system and the influence each should exert over a plethora of moral and ethical issues. In contemporary societies and cultures primarily influenced by Enlightenment thought, democracy has become the new state humanistic religion. Major religious systems, whether Christian, Muslim or other, are considered and treated as complicating real issues, based on sectarian prejudice and the unwillingness or inability to engage in constructive dialog, and as a result are unable to perform their societal roles in relation to each other. This is not an invalid criticism. And the Christian church as a whole, or at least as recognized, perceived and understood by the world in general is as guilty as any other. To put it simply, as regards political entities, if they could, the religious system would be better off chucked. The thing that maintains the religious influence, is several thousand years of institutionalization. Governments have come and gone. Most modern governments are relatively new. The major world religious systems, as much in fighting as there may be in each - have a long history. The inertia gained through the centuries is not the kind of thing that is easily overcome in a few generations.

The one system that appears to be the most binding in our modern dilemma is the economic system. The point that I believe needs consideration here is the economic system, and whether Catholic, Evangelical, Orthodox, Muslim or whatever other cultic and religious system we may espouse, we are all tied together via a great world economic system. Even Chinese Communists are integral to this system whether or not internally freedom of the governed is a reality. World Corporations contract with Communist Chinese as with any other free enterprise corporation to manufacture products to be distributed world wide as economically as possible. The Chinese will do cheaper what free market corporations and manufacturers can not or will not (insufficient profit). So ultimately, the free market system survives by compromising its own free market principles. Economics-Get Back To Where You Once Belonged - Bob Couchenour. We can not escape the reality of the fact that we are ALL caught up in these systems. Mostly out of ignorance and the fact that things have become so complicated that NO ONE can possibly keep up with things, or track where their investments are ultimately utilized. None of us has all the information necessary to come to a clear conclusion about virtually anything, and be sure more complete information - valid sustainable facts are not hidden out there some where, waiting to put an entirely new light on what we are willing to bet our lives on. So to get us through this mess - we place our faith in our scribes - our politicians, legal analysts and lawyers; money managers, investment advisors and CPAs; Pastors, Priests, Shaman, Gurus, Ayatollahs and Rabbis. Dont get the idea that I am demeaning any of these occupations. Or that I have a problem with Political leaders (there may be some I do have problems with, but that is not the issue), or money makers or Pastors, Priests and the rest. The issue is not these professionals. At least not as regards individual persons trying to do the best they can to affect positive influence in their relations. The issue is our placing our confidence and faith in systems that ultimately will come to nothing. Be it political, economic or religious. We look to our political, economic or religious scribes to absolve us of our own responsibility and ability to meet with God. And why do we look to the experts? I believe its because when considering the Kingdom of God - Righteousness, Peace and Joy, the Kingdom doesnt really look all that attractive when compared to the glitz, glamour, excitement, financial reward, social status and all the rest that the worlds systems seem to offer. If, the religious system can placate my conscience and make me feel good until I forget, then I really dont have to concern myself with personal intimate relations with God. Who knows what I might be convicted of, if I allow myself to really open my heart and conscience and listen to God. That sounds risky. Im not sure Im really secure with that. There might be conviction Id rather not deal with. And, if I

KNOW it is God, there might be a commitment - Id rather not. Its not worth the chance. All I can say is - God IS. Righteousness, Peace and Joy - IS. Yes - There may be costs involved. It has been said Faith is spelled R - I - S - K. But - It is not religion (although it has been made a religion) It IS- meeting with God. When you need a consultant - You have one. Sometimes, what you get may not make good business sense, or could be socially detrimental, or politically incorrect - even to the religious world. But not to heed His guidance can lead to a seared conscience. Its your choice.

GrrrrrrrRRRRRRRrr aaaaaahhhhh (sigh)

This intercessory work of the Holy Spirit is done with "groanings which cannot be uttered." These "groanings" can be translated as "sighs". These groanings or sighs are the means by which the Holy Spirit communicates to the Father. We are told that these are groanings which cannot be uttered. This expression, "cannot be uttered", from the Greek means "not to be uttered or not to be expressed in words". Now a word is "a sound or combination of sounds, or its representation in writing or printing, that symbolizes and communicates a meaning". In our infirmity, natural spiritual state and natural fleshly state of mind, we cannot perceive this communication of the Spirit. We cannot understand its meaning, or express it in words as to communicate it, because "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (I Corinthians 2:14). Excerpt - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit - That Grace Might Reign Im going to spend some time here. Just how much - Im not sure yet. I am starting to get into areas of Spiritual understanding, or at least how I have come to understand the Spirits life in me and His relation to creation and created things. Although I am quite at home with this, traditional religion and most who are comfortable with it, find this threatening. There are those though who do get it and as they begin to trust God in them, are able to experience freedom that can rarely be realized in institutional religion. Understanding this, I must qualify this freedom. Freedom in the Spirit IS NOT an anything goes unfettered, unthinking, inconsiderate license to do what ever the hell you want. For those who would think this, I believe the Law still applies, and it applies to curb the carnal nature of man in his ignorance of the Spirit, and bridle those natures that would reject the Spirits promptings. But, in the Spirit, there is freedom. And growth in the Spirit, as well as conforming us to the nature of Christ, opens us to experiential realization of that freedom. I will be dealing with things that are traditionally thought of as gifts of the Spirit. I will also deal with aspects of the Spirits work in us that are not gifts, but rather maturing fruit, but not just fruit, but renewal of our minds. Right now, I kind of feel like for the past twenty-five or thirty some years, Ive been a giant information trash compactor, just taking in all this stuff and compacting it. And now its time to take out the trash and see what needs to be recycled. So excuse me while I dig through my trash and maybe a treasure or two can be found. the Holy Spirit communicates

I have been a computer hobbyist since 1983. I believe the smartest decision concerning my involvement in business was to buy a Commodore Vic-20 with 8kb (yes, thats KB not MB) taught myself programming (Basic, Assembly and hacked at a few others) generally became computer literate, operated a BBS (bulletin board service), and in time (1996) set up my web site (10 years and still kicking). From the late eighties on I recognized the value of the computer as a communications tool. Most of my friends, associates, and need I say, my wife, thought I was crazy. So, forgive me if I take a moment to say something that has been on my heart for a long time. I told ya so. But even more than an interest in computers, has always been my interest in music. And even though my interest in music goes back further, a passion for Christ became primary. Primary - yes - but difficult to realize. Screwed up and dumb as dirt I thought realizing Christ could be best experienced and exercised by pouring myself into the Church. After all, this was His body - this is where it must be happening. What I found was little different than your typical high school social system. The jocks, and prom queens, the pretty people and the nerds. And at the fringes - the social outcastes. Working in close relation with church staff, witnessing manipulative practices, blatant competitiveness and ambitious maneuvering for position. Dealing with elders puffed up with status, back stabbing, ready to screw over and dump on their ass any who questioned their sacred cow. I learned to keep my guard up. I learned, that if what was expressed in the Bible was true, if what it said we are is factual - the Church is not the source to make it happen. Fact - the Church is filled with screwed up people. Fact - Most of them dont realize it or dont think theyre screwed up. They dont want to be told theyre screwed up. They are in denial. Fact- Theres no need to repent of being screwed up (change my thinking concerning being screwed up) if Im not screwed up. I knew I was screwed up.(Some may ask So, whats changed?) Fortunately, church experiences for most, dont resemble mine. At least I hope not, but there has been a growing dissention in the ranks and stories are multiplying. There is a growing consensus that the institutional church is missing the mark, or at least is in need of a major overhaul or restructuring. Just what that might mean, I dont know. It may mean something as simple as those who are prompted, move out and move on and allow God to do what it is He wills. I know this is controversial.

But if this is what is needed to allow the Spirit in us to be in us what it is He wills - as the Spirit communicates - recognize it - embrace it - and be what it is God would have you to be. The human problem is that once we realize that it is God in us prompting and moving us, we allow our imaginations to get the best of us, and begin making plans for the Spirit. In our exuberance we begin to run ahead rather than casually, leisurely following. We forget what it is to rest in Him. Our visions are of the glorious things God will do through us. Our concept of righteousness - peace - and joy, is not fully formed and is tainted by the worlds concept of what constitutes proper religion. We still carry a lot of baggage. We are tainted with the idea that we are to be about the business of God - so, we proceed to create busy-ness. Religion tries to press its way in. Righteousness - Peace - Joy. We have yet to realize that He is Righteousness. He is Peace. He is joy. He is in me. He is in you. Our business is nothing more that to be righteousness, to be peace, to be joy. Allow me to rephrase that: Our business is nothing more that to allow Him be righteousness, allow Him to be peace, allow Him to be joy, through us. It really isnt brain surgery - but we try to complicate it and make it so much more problematical than it is. Most of us have so much crap spinning around in our heads we dont have the slightest idea what it means to experience His peace. We are prone to feelings of guilt unless we are actively thinking or doing something productive. There are so many competing and contradictory religious ideas (presumably Christian) arguing for our attention and submission that to rest with and in the Spirit is construed as a New Age practice and your playing with the devils toys. the Holy Spirit communicates Deep inside - if you are in Christ - He is in you. He is doing for you what you cannot possibly realize. Dont worry about it if you dont understand it. Understanding will come. I can see I will be parked here for a while. I didnt expect to write this. I didnt touch what I was planning. Well get to it. There are many who would demand and press that their conception of the Spirits life is the only Biblically valid interpretation. My advice to any one faced with such a dilemma is what my aunt Coral said to me when I was just a small boy, To Thine Own Self Be True - the Spirit is in you - listen Stay tuned for GrrrrrrrRRRRRRRrr aaaaaahhhhh (sigh) part two

GrrrrrrrRRRRRRRrr aaaaaahhhhh (sigh) part two

This intercessory work of the Holy Spirit is done with "groanings which cannot be uttered." These "groanings" can be translated as "sighs". These groanings or sighs are the means by which the Holy Spirit communicates to the Father. We are told that these are groanings which cannot be uttered. This expression, "cannot be uttered", from the Greek means "not to be uttered or not to be expressed in words". Now a word is "a sound or combination of sounds, or its representation in writing or printing, that symbolizes and communicates a meaning". In our infirmity, natural spiritual state and natural fleshly state of mind, we cannot perceive this communication of the Spirit. We cannot understand its meaning, or express it in words as to communicate it, because "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (I Corinthians 2:14). Excerpt - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit - That Grace Might Reign the Holy Spirit communicates not to be expressed in words A couple years ago I was gathering Christian musicians to try and put into practice something that I have heard expressed by Christians musicians as long as I have been associating with them. Go to a park, set up our equipment and just play the day away. Well, its not as simple as just doing it. If you are going to set up equipment and have amplification, there are permits that are required and other covenants to be adhere to, to make sure you are within the law and generally arent being a nuisance to the rest of the community or unreasonably pissing some one off. In 2003 and 2004 I did this a total of five times in three different county parks. At the time, I was employed and underwrote the whole thing, which I might add - does come to some considerable cost. There were a couple who did offer some financial aid, which was appreciated and substantial for individuals, but only a drop in the bucket considering overall expenditures. I have generally gone through life somewhat naive and idealistic. Oh, Im not so simple as to allow myself to be blatantly screwed over, and I do guard myself in business, but I too often exercise an unrealistic confidence in people that ends up biting me in the ass all too often.

Financial concerns out of the way and willing to accept things as they are, I began expressing the idea to immediate associates (the bros in the band - the worship team). Gaining the interest and commitment of primary musicians to be involved, we decided to open up the project to other musicians who didnt normally have opportunity to play during worship services and see what happens. Since we had permits for the whole day, and a place to do it, we invited musicians outside our immediate circles to participate (local Christian bands, musicians). Initial response from groups not immediately associated with our fellowship was disappointing, but there were a few fine master musicians interested and became involved. As we did more of these God Jams, more local groups wanted their part, so we arranged things to be split up with band presentations interspersed with mix and match impromptu jam sessions, allowing musicians from different groups to mix it up and have some fun. Like I said - I have naive and idealistic ideas - of what Christians are like. I have naive and idealistic ideas - of what should be common knowledge as musicians. Spiritual facts and information are not so hidden that we are unable to read and discern the writers of the Bible. Music - is not a secret knowledge only revealed in some cultic ritual where we sell our souls to the devil I.e. I went down to the crossroads - fell down on my knees Robert Johnson courtesy Eric Clapton. I thought - just maybe - that sense of the divine, that so many experience regularly on Sunday mornings - just maybe, that (perceived) intimacy with God could actually be the norm for a day. Worship and Fellowship and freedom to exercise creativity inspired by the Spirit and encouraged by each other. Months before (literally as many as six months and with regular updates and e-mails) I was expressing the vision and answering questions as follows: "are folks supposed to bring music they like or what?" "Are you hoping that worship leaders will solve that?" In a "Jam", generally speaking you would more often than not find very little if any music actually written down. The purpose and pleasure of a Jam Session is the experimentation and spontaneity, the freedom to create on the fly, to be influenced, challenged and inspired by the musical ideas of others and respond through a musical dialogue, sometimes enhanced with words but not necessarily dependant upon any formal structure. Jamming is not for everyone. Jamming can be done either with instruments or voices or both relating to each other. A Jam is a currently living active conversation in the language of musical notes and chords, ever changing and evolving as the language becomes common and the individual musicians better versed in the language. I would

compare Jamming as a worship form comparable to a three way conversation between a musician, God and at least one other musician. You can do it one musician and God, but I would not consider that a "jam". In a worship situation the Spirit is ideally the "Worship Leader", and a primary way we learn to follow Him is by becoming sensitive to each other. The role of the traditional worship leader, although not eliminated, is not the crucial, pivotal or decisive autocratic position it has held in most traditional worship teams. The role of the Worship Leader becomes closer aligned to that of one musician amongst equals, but differing in their respective roles. Not all "musicians" are comfortable with this kind of freedom. I recognize that fact. Jamming is comparable to worshipping in the Spirit, intertwining melodies, and language. Not all believers are comfortable with this. They require a form, a structure or a strong dominant leader figure to provide a sense of security. They need a beginning and an end or there is no order (at least from their perspective). To be frank, I am not relying on "Worship Leaders" to solve anything. Although I do not deny them their place and role. The music is in the musician. Any who would suppose themselves to be leaders, Worship leaders or otherwise, have a responsibility to serve those they may wish to lead. to develop and nurture the corresponding relationships requisite to the position they would aspire too. It is not a position that is to be presumed. Who is the one that would assume this position. He (she) is the one that would know those he would lead. He is the one who would make the required preparations to ensure the maximum involvement of them that would follow. Leading requires thinking and planning ahead and anticipating the responsiveness of those they wish to lead. The role of Worship Leader is not confirmed because of the level or quality of ones singing ability, or "desire" to serve or be used for the Glory of God. "Desire" must be translated into "service" to others. Recognizing the desires and vision of those one is related too and doing what it takes to make it happen (within a Godly context) . Undoubtedly this is a narrow perspective of leadership, and only focus's on a small aspect of the subject, but does recognize that the "worship leader" is only one of a number in relation to each other. So "are folks supposed to bring music they like or what?" This question presumes a relationship with others willing to fill the role of accompanist. It would be wiser to work things out with a key musician willing to be an accompanist beforehand rather than just showing up and expecting others to follow. Until there are relationships established, and the language of the music understood, there is no context for establishing the role of "Worship Leader". Established groups working in relationship to each other know who their Worship Leaders are, and that is good, but that position is not necessarily transferable from one group to another. Some may be gifted and recognized enough for that to be the case, but it is not something to be presumed. Intimacy of relationships are primary in any Leader/Follower association. What I became aware of through these efforts is first (1) as musicians - most do not

understand the language. Some can rip off a few licks and riffs, play a bunch of chords, keep reasonable rhythm, but the language of the music - as a language to communicate through, rather than just mimic the accomplishments of others, most dont understand it. We dont know how it all fits together. We dont know how to reply to the phrases of others, other than to throw in what ever riff of the week we just got off the Internet. Second (2) as Christians, spiritual beings, presumably in relation to the Holy Spirit - we dont understand the language. It is simple enough for us to sit passively in church or franticly worship in church on Sundays, because all we have to do is copy each other, and paste a few Bible verses on us to keep up that Spiritual appearance. But to actually relate to each other in the Spirit as Spiritual beings and not Religious beings - God help us. Now granted - to be a Spiritual Christian does not require a knowledge of music. But, in worship - most of us do feel it. I am not necessarily referring to that schmaltzy sentimental feeling, but when inspired by a musician, sensitive to the Spirit and accomplished in their craft - you know God is there, intimately present and you are at home. Maturity is realizing that God is there, in you - even when the musician is not. Maturity is responsiveness to that Spirit. Not emotional schmaltz - Spirit. Spiritual communication encompasses that nostalgic feel good stuff, but far surpasses it in promptings, knowledge and motives encompassing the gamut of human/Godly expression I.e. be angry, and sin not Stay tuned for GrrrrrrrRRRRRRRrr aaaaaahhhhh (sigh) part three

GrrrrrrrRRRRRRRrr aaaaaahhhhh (sigh) part three

This intercessory work of the Holy Spirit is done with "groanings which cannot be uttered." These "groanings" can be translated as "sighs". These groanings or sighs are the means by which the Holy Spirit communicates to the Father. We are told that these are groanings which cannot be uttered. This expression, "cannot be uttered", from the Greek means "not to be uttered or not to be expressed in words". Now a word is "a sound or combination of sounds, or its representation in writing or printing, that symbolizes and communicates a meaning". In our infirmity, natural spiritual state and natural fleshly state of mind, we cannot perceive this communication of the Spirit. We cannot understand its meaning, or express it in words as to communicate it, because "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (I Corinthians 2:14). Excerpt - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit - That Grace Might Reign the Holy Spirit communicates not to be expressed in words
symbolizes

and communicates a meaning

"A Jam is a currently living active conversation in the language of musical notes and chords, ever changing and evolving, as the language becomes common and the individual musicians better versed in the language." "Music is well said to be the speech of angels; in fact, nothing among the utterances allowed to man is felt to be so divine. It brings us near to the infinite. Thomas Carlyle ...in my playing, taking all the skill and ability the Lord has allowed me to develop and then giving the best and offering it back to Him, I am entering into the realm of angels. My speech is not that of human reasoning but of the heavenly host moving in response and into battle with principalities and powers that would raise them selves in defiance of the Lord our God.
IF I [can]

speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such as is inspired by Gods love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1 What do the tongues of Angels sound like? Is this just a metaphoric reference, or are angels real? Is there a heavenly host? Or are such references only imaginative creations to

comfort us and make us feel better concerning things we have no control over? Ephesians 6:12 For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere. Is this factual? Or is it fantasy? Or is it metaphorical language expressing some naturalistic psychological state of mind requiring psychiatrists and psychologists to delve into and make sense of? Were the ancients ignorant superstitious fools? Or were they better able to perceive and discern spiritual reality that we in our modern minds struggle with? Is there Spiritual revelation that natural minds can not comprehend? If God is Spirit, which we cannot see, and we are spiritual beings in corporal bodies (which without faith we cannot actually prove), why would it be unreasonable to expect there would also be created spiritual entities and dimension that are not discernable through natural empirical observation? If angelic spiritual dimensions do not exist - what is the reasonable explanation for referencing them? For me, music is analogous to the Spirits communication in us. But, its not just the music, rather, its how I approach the music. Music is made up of beats and rhythms and notes and chords. These are the basic elements. These are combined into expressive tonal words and intertwining sentences. Notes, chords and rhythms are only the basic rudiments. These must be managed, controlled, stroked or caressed by the touch of the musicians hand to impart a living quality that is only possible by hours and years of intimate relation with an instrument in hand. Our relation to the Spirit is similar. Only it is the Spirit, who plays us. But we must place ourselves in His hands. He will not usurp our control. My music is both an art (in the natural) and a prayer (in the spiritual). But it is more than a one way communication. It is the expression of what is received and then applied by faith that it will actually work. In my playing, there is seldom a plan, but there is an understanding of the language of music. Based on intimacy with the language and intimacy with the instrument, musical ideas can be applied to the instrument on the fly, as they are formulated in my mind. Very seldom do I know exactly how it will actually sound until it is played. But based on what I have learned thus far, I make an assessment, and in faith commit myself. It is almost always new. And it rarely doesnt work. There is a perpetual unfolding of new sounds leading to new possibilities.

This is not communication on the level of reason and academics. It is communication touching the emotions and spirit. As the Spirit communicates in and through us, as we are exercised in the reception and application of that life, a process of gaining and growing in understanding, rational apprehension begins to overcome us. We become mindful of the Spirit because we KNOW. This may sound enigmatic, but you can not know the Spirit (in your head) until you have KNOWN Him in your experience. Im sure that will stir up a few of arguments. Back to our fantasy games. Yes - there are angels. Yes there is spiritual dimension beyond natural perception. I find it in my music. Others may find other expressions that are equally as valid. It may be that we can only wonder at each others concepts and perceptions - That does not make us superstitious fools, it may be indicative of spiritual perception and discernment. I do say may be indicative because as spiritual reality becomes an accepted norm, there is in the nature of man the propensity to imitate. And as religious acceptance is realized, the Fake Books how to Spiritual Reality for Dummies eventually find there way into our cultural religious canon. At some point spiritual truth is lost in our 12 steps to Nirvana. The teaching may be accurate, the concepts in tack, but the experience seldom realized, because we are always looking for the short cut. The point is - there is no short cut. It is the process of life. Stay tuned for GrrrrrrrRRRRRRRrr aaaaaahhhhh (sigh) part four (maybe)

GRRRRRRR (pt 4) or Sir, could you please control your junk yard dog
The Holy Spirit communicates to God with groanings which cannot be uttered, and in this He is praying on our behalf. I Corinthians 12:7-11 says, "the manifestation of the Spirit" may be given in the form of "divers kinds of tongues" or "the interpretation of tongues". I Corinthians 14:2 says that "he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth him, howbeit in the Spirit he speaketh mysteries." Let us remember that these tongues are a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. I Corinthians 14:14 says, "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful." The only ability we have to pray comes from the presence of the Holy Spirit giving us this ability. Romans 8:26 says the Spirit does this praying with groanings which cannot be expressed in words which would communicate their meaning. When the Spirit is praying for us in this manner it is approaching and communicating with God on our behalf. When we speak in tongues, it is the Spirit which is manifesting Himself (I Cor.12:1-7). When we speak in a tongue the Spirit is communicating with God (I Cot. 14:2). When we speak in tongues the Spirit is praying in a manner which does not communicate its meaning in the form of words. The praying of the Spirit in Romans 8:26,27 and the manifestation of the Spirit in the form of tongues in I Corinthians 12:7-14 have some striking similarities. First, it is the Holy Spirit manifesting itself to do the praying in both cases. Second, in both cases the Spirit is speaking to God. Thirdly, in both cases we cannot understand with our own minds what is being prayed. The only difference in the two cases of the Spirits praying is that in the passages of I Corinthians 12 and 14, the prayer is made verbal, although not understandable. We can safely conclude, since the results of the Spirits prayer in both cases are the same, that these tongues are an outward, physical, verbal expression of what the Spirit is doing within us, in the depths of our own spirits. Excerpt - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit - That Grace Might Reign In recent years there has been little that we have found to fight over in the church that has been as confrontational as the subject of tongues, glossolalia. speaking in tongues n making of utterances in unknown language: the making of utterances that are not recognizable as any known language and have no formal linguistic content. It is a normal aspect of worship in many Pentecostal and charismatic churches. Also called glossolalia

glossolalia n 1. religion See speaking in tongues 2. psychology nonsense speech: nonsensical or invented speech, especially resulting from a trance or schizophrenia
Encarta World English Dictionary & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

My intention is not to convince you of the validity of tongues. Whether you do or dont believe they are acceptable in Christian religious worship and prayer - I couldnt give a hoot. As I was initially inducted into the practice of Christian faith, prayer and worship through a charismatic fellowship, and much of my continued relations have been there, yes, I have prayed in tongues. In recent years, it has not been a dominant practice in my prayer life. I neither endorse or reject or judge ones Spiritual status or relation to the Spirit based on whether they do or do not pray in tongues. To me - it is a non issue. The Evangelical church has over the years gleaned a great deal of Spiritual truth through the Scriptures. This has not been without considerable conflict, debate and yes, persecution and war. Yet, even in the receptive state as beneficiaries of all this Spiritual treasure, we find it still a part of our nature to condemn, ostracize and ultimately excommunicate as heretics any who would express a Spiritual insight not readily accepted as church dogma. Tongues has been controversial essentially for two reasons. Ignorance on the part of those offended by the idea, and ignorance on the part of those arguing to justify the practice. I do believe that on both sides of this argument, this ignorance is the product of how we have been taught and encouraged to interpret the Bible. The Bible interprets itself. By this method, we extract a verse of scripture (usually out of context) and by extracting data from another verse (also usually out of context), and applying assumptions, gleaned from the second as absolute definition, to the first, we construct a theology to support or endorse our thesis. Religious Bull Shit. I am not saying this is wholly wrong in its approach. There has been a great deal of sustainable truth extrapolated in this manner. But the method is not absolute. It is not the Holy Grail the key to all Biblical understanding. But, we become set in our ways even in the light of Biblical testimony contradicting our method, we - as logical reasonable - enlightened modern man - able to dissect - presuming to thoroughly examine our subject - arbitrarily create our absolutes, via an arbitrarily established method held as perfect. Tongues is only one issue, supported or rejected via our accepted absolute method of

interpretation. The method fails in that where there is a misinterpretation or misapplication of one or any number of facets we presume to impose as authoritative in the construction of our argument - the entire thesis becomes suspect. This, in the case of tongues, has been a fault on both side of the traditional arguments. Both sides - presume too much. Both sides make Much Ado About Nothing. Why is this? Well, probably for a lot of reasons. But primarily, in our exuberance to fulfill the law to rightly divide the word of truth 2 Timothy 2:15, hermeneutical methods (the science of interpreting texts: the science and methodology of interpreting texts, especially the books of the Bible) were accepted, based on varying assumptions about the Bible. Fundamentalists, who comprise a vast percentage of the Evangelical camp, are influential in their insistence upon the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible. I dont argue this, but I do take issue with the idea that every quoted verse is accurately interpreted and applied in the construction of either Fundamental or Evangelical theology. In our zeal to do it to our utmost for God we have left God out of the equation. If it is true that the natural man does not receive, or understand the things of the Spirit, the fact of whether we are in the Spirit in the construction of our theology, or doing it in the power of our natural human mind resources, in the flesh - we wouldnt have a clue. We are totally incapable of recognizing or adjudging our spiritual state as natural, Spiritually divorced beings. In the Flesh, natural human mind set, Of course Im spiritual - I hold correct doctrine. Correct doctrine is not the bench mark of the Spirit. - A tree is known by its fruits. For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself. [Lev. 19:18.] But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another. But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God). For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do. But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law. Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency, Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies), Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit

the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness, Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [that can bring a charge]. And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires. If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit we have our life in God, let us go forward walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.] Let us not become vainglorious and self-conceited, competitive and challenging and provoking and irritating to one another, envying and being jealous of one another. Galatians 5:14-26 Correct doctrine? Dig a little deeper.

Taking On Meaning CAUTION - the contents of this blog may be found offensive

I Corinthians 14:13 says, "...let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret." I Corinthians 12:7-14 tells us that the interpretation of tongues is also a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. We are told to pray that we may be able to interpret a tongue, a manifestation of the Spirit, which hitherto has not been understandable, which has not been communicated in an intelligible manner with words expressing a meaning. We are told to pray that the Holy Spirit would now make known this meaning, that the Spirit will now manifest itself, express itself in meaningful words in order that our understanding may be fruitful, that the church may receive edification. What was once a mystery (I Cot. 14:2), may now be known. That which. was once "unutterable, not to be expressed with words, not to communicate a meaning", now takes on meaning. "In a like manner" as the growth produced by the Spirit in Romans 8:16,17, the Spirit takes us from a condition of not knowing how to pray in Romans 8:26, to a state of mind knowing that all things work together for good to them that love God (Rom. 8:28). Excerpt - The Intercessory Work of the Holy Spirit - That Grace Might Reign So too the [Holy] Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness; for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought, but the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance.And He Who searches the hearts of men knows what is in the mind of the [Holy] Spirit [what His intent is], because the Spirit intercedes and pleads [before God] in behalf of the saints according to and in harmony with Gods will. [Ps. 139:1, 2.]We are assured and know that [God being a partner in their labor] all things work together and are [fitting into a plan] for good to and for those who love God and are called according to [His] design and purpose. Romans 8:26-28 KNOWLEDGE In a biblical sense, true knowledge includes all facts concerning God and His works, both spiritual and material (Ge 1:1; Col 1:16). God Himself has perfect knowledge, i.e., omniscience (Ps 147:5; cf. 139:16), and He has created man in His own image with finite capacity for knowledge (Ge 1:2627; cf. Col 3:10). The OT emphasizes the personal, relational, and experiential dimensions of knowledge involved in the ongoing process of life. This dynamic and life-related concept of

knowledge affects the will and emotions as well as the intellect (e.g., Ge 2:17; 4:1 marg.; Is 47:8; 53:3; 16:21; Eze 25:14). The Greeks viewed knowledge as a cognitive and contemplative relationship to objective reality in its static and abstract being (cf. 1 Co 1:2122) or as a mystical mergence of the knower with God. Knowledge of God and reverence for Him are primary knowledge for man (Pr 1:7; 9:10; cf. Ps 14:1). The NT further emphasizes that eternal life involves a personal knowledge of the only true God (Jn 17:3) as revealed through His Son, Jesus Christ (1 Jo 5:20). However, God also created man to gain knowledge of His natural creation and to rule the earth as Gods steward (Ge 1:28). Since man is finite, both his spiritual and natural knowledge are always limited in breadth and in depth (De 29:29; Ro 11:3334; 1 Co 8:2). -The NASB Topical Index To know a thing is depicted in the Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman.
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Monty Pythons The Meaning of Life: Man in Pink: [singing] Whenever life gets you down Mrs. Brown / and things seem hard or tough / and people are stupid, obnoxious or daft / and you feel that you've had quite enough! / just remember that your standing on a planet thats evolving / revolving at ninehundred miles an hour / its orbiting at ninety miles a second / so its reckoned / a sun that is the source of all our power / the sun and you and me / and all the stars that we can see / are moving at a million miles a day / in an outer spiral arm at forty-thousand miles an hour / of the galaxy we call the Milky Way / Our galaxy itself / contains a hundred billion stars / its a hundred thousand light-years side to side / it bulges in the middle / sixteenthousand light-years thick / but out by us its just three-thousand light-years wide / were thirty-thousand light-years from galactic central point / we go round every two-hundredmillion years / and our galaxy is only one of millions of billions in this amazing and expanding universe. [musical interlude] Man in Pink: The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding / in all of the directions it can whiz / as fast as it can go / the speed of light you know / twelve million miles a minute and thats the fastest speed there is / so remember when your feeling very small and insecure / how amazingly unlikely is your birth / and pray that theres intelligent life somewhere up in space / cause threes bugger all down here on Earth.
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Apart from the knowledge - intimate experiential Spiritual familiarity implanted, grown and revealed in our hearts and minds by the Holy Spirit ("In a like manner" as the character growth produced by the Spirit)- regardless of the words we may substitute - our spiritual religious worship and prayer is NO MORE than the humanistic little ditty sang by the Man in Pink. Our only hope, and in much a way, the hope that is believed about God is that theres intelligent life somewhere up in space. Our God is understood little more than our personal E.T. We use different - religious

sounding words, but treat God the same, and there is little more to our understanding and knowledge of Him. Were looking for love in all the wrong places. Hes not found up there on cloud nine, or in some third of seventh heaven - Hes in you. We have been taught to and intrinsically seek Knowledge of Him out side of ourselves. Our reverence for the transcendent nature of God has kept us ignorant and fearful of His immediate and internal ever present intimate nature in us. Prayer - Worship - is not collective religious get togethers, (Hootenannies for God). I have no problem with collective worship, Im a musician - thats what I do. The point is, until that worship experience is the product of Him in you - our love response consequence of intimacy with Him - worship isnt more than our trying to placate the Alien.
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Monty Pythons The Meaning of Life: Harry Blackitt: Look at them, bloody Catholics, filling the bloody world up with bloody people they can't afford to bloody feed. Mrs. Blackitt: What are we dear? Harry Blackitt: Protestant, and fiercely proud of it. Mrs. Blackitt: Hmm. Well, why do they have so many children? Harry Blackitt: Because... every time they have sexual intercourse, they have to have a baby. Mrs. Blackitt: But it's the same with us, Harry. Harry Blackitt: What do you mean? Mrs. Blackitt: Well, I mean, we've got two children, and we've had sexual intercourse twice. Harry Blackitt: That's not the point. We could have it any time we wanted. Mrs. Blackitt: Really? Harry Blackitt: Oh, yes, and, what's more, because we don't believe in all that Papist claptrap, we can take precautions. Mrs. Blackitt: What, you mean... lock the door? Harry Blackitt: No, no. I mean, because we are members of the Protestant Reformed Church, which successfully challenged the autocratic power of the Papacy in the midsixteenth century, we can wear little rubber devices to prevent issue. Mrs. Blackitt: What d' you mean? Harry Blackitt: I could, if I wanted, have sexual intercourse with you... Mrs. Blackitt: Oh, yes, Harry. Harry Blackitt: ...and, by wearing a rubber sheath over my old feller, I could insure... that, when I came off, you would not be impregnated. Mrs. Blackitt: Ooh. Harry Blackitt: That's what being a Protestant's all about. That's why it's the church for

me. That's why it's the church for anyone who respects the individual and the individual's right to decide for him or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in fifteen-seventeen, he may not have realized the full significance of what he was doing, but four hundred years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas... [sniff] Harry Blackitt: ... and, Protestantism doesn't stop at the simple condom. Oh, no. I can wear French Ticklers if I want. Mrs. Blackitt: You what? Harry Blackitt: French Ticklers. Black Mambos. Crocodile Ribs. Sheaths that are designed not only to protect, but also to enhance the stimulation of sexual congress. Mrs. Blackitt: Have you got one? Harry Blackitt: Have I got one? Uh, well, no, but I can go down the road any time I want and walk into Harry's and hold my head up high and say in a loud, steady voice, 'Harry, I want you to sell me a condom. In fact, today, I think I'll have a French Tickler, for I am a Protestant.' Mrs. Blackitt: Well, why don't you? Harry Blackitt: But they - Well, they cannot, 'cause their church never made the great leap out of the Middle Ages and the domination of alien Episcopal supremacy.
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For much of the church, the Bible is the end of all communication from God. It is of its own, the final Word - as perceived and interpreted through their peculiar set of assumptions - and there are A LOT of peculiar sets of assumptions. Most of these assumptions are nothing more than mans reasoning in an attempt to orderly discern the contents of the Book. And of course this premise of (nothing more than mans reasoning) is recognized by all parties, since it is the other guys reasoning that is at fault. There is a concept that the Bible is not the end of Gods communication to us, but is rather a road map - to lead us to understanding and experiencing God. I do like this. But there is another perception of the Bible that I also feel is applicable to the Bibles place in our relation to God. I kind of think of it as an Owners Manual. Christ - on the cross - purchased for us, relation with God and life in the Spirit - eternal and internal. The Bible - the book - is a means to aid us in our apprehension and experience of that life. It is not the Life itself. Like a new product I purchase, or new software I install on my computer, I do not need that owners manual to begin using that product. It is possible with some basic background understanding, I can jump in and figure it out as I go. For some -many - that owners manual is Greek to me - Well, it is. And with the diversity of manual experts out there trying to interpret the manual, the confusion is only multiplied so that uniform understanding of what is actually expressed is unfeasible. So Christian religion digresses to arguments over the manual.

Apart from experiencing the product itself - the manual is worthless. The nature of the product is such that the manual can not be comprehended or applied independently of the hands on use of the product. Once the product has been grasped, the manual begins to make sense and can enhance the use of the product. The Meaning of Life is not unknowable. It is not Harry Blackitts religious reasoning. But, as long as we are content to find faith in externals, independently of the Life borne in us, our religion will manifest as That's what being a Protestant's all about

We CAN know
Deuteronomy 30:6 says the Lord will circumcise our hearts, that we may be able to love the Lord with all our hearts. The Holy Spirit is circumcising our hearts that we may be able to love God. As this circumcised state of our hearts deepens, our love for God grows. The hardness, callousness and wickedness of our natural heart and spirit are broken down and the mind of the Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the mind of Christ is put in its place. As our natural spiritual state is replaced by the Holy Spirit, we grow in our love for God but also our knowledge of the Spirits mind increases, due to the simple fact that it is replacing what once was. It becomes the spiritual power upon which we draw. And because it makes intercession according to the will of God, we begin to know and understand that will, and can know and understand what to pray for and how. This work of the Holy Spirit interceding for us goes on whether we understand it or not. But as we grow, with circumcised hearts, loving God, the Holy Spirit replacing our natural spiritual state, we can grow in the knowledge of how to pray. We will understand the mind of the Spirit. "...the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God." I Corinthians 2:11,12

The hardness, callousness and wickedness of our natural heart and spirit are broken down and the mind of the Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the mind of Christ is put in its place. put in its place. Let me rephrase this. realized in its place. Realized - v 1. know and understand something: to know, understand, and accept something 2. be or become aware of something: to be aware or conscious of something, or to become aware of something 3. achieve something hoped for: to achieve in actuality something that has been hoped or worked for 4. turn work into performance: to turn something such as a play or novel into a stage or film performance 5. convert gain or loss into cash: to convert a paper gain or loss into a cash gain or loss by closing out the original transaction 6. commerce translate something into money: to translate something into a particular amount of money, usually by selling it

7. music interpret piece of music: to interpret a musical composition, especially the figured bass of a baroque composition There are those to whom Jesus said Is not this where you wander out of the way and go wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? Mark 12:24 And, there are those to whom He said, To you it has been given to [come progressively to] know (to recognize and understand more strongly and clearly) the mysteries and secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that, [though] looking, they may not see; and hearing, they may not comprehend. Luke 8:10 There is a presumption of knowing, and there is a realization of coming to know. All things have been entrusted and delivered to Me by My Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known. Matthew 11:27 And He replied to them, To you it has been given to know the secrets and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For whoever has [spiritual knowledge], to him will more be given and he will be furnished richly so that he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. Matthew 13:11-12 Our knowledge of God and Spiritual things is not a product of academics and religious training and disciplines. It is the grace and revelation of God. Lukes gospel account was recorded for the purpose to that you may know the full truth and understand with certainty and security against error the accounts (histories) and doctrines of the faith of which you have been informed and in which you have been orally instructed. Luke 1:4 But that you may know that the Son of Man has the [power of] authority and right on earth to forgive sins, He said to the paralyzed man, I say to you, arise, pick up your litter (stretcher), and go to your own house! Luke 5:24 Intelligence and understanding of earthly science or philosophies or religion are not indicative of knowledge as pertains to God or His actions in history or current events. You playactors (hypocrites)! You know how [intelligently] to discern and interpret and prove the looks of the earth and sky; but how is it that you do not know how to discern and interpret and apply the proof to this present time? Luke 12:56

Who came to Jesus at night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know and are certain that You have come from God [as] a Teacher; for no one can do these signs (these wonderworks, these miraclesand produce the proofs) that You do unless God is with him. Jesus answered him, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot ever see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter his mothers womb again and be born? Jesus answered, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born of water and [even] the Spirit, he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God. What is born of [from] the flesh is flesh [of the physical is physical]; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above). The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered by asking, How can all this be possible? Jesus replied, Are you the teacher of Israel, and yet do not know nor understand these things? [Are they strange to you?] I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, We speak only of what we know [we know absolutely what we are talking about]; we have actually seen what we are testifying to [we were eyewitnesses of it]. And still you do not receive our testimony [you reject and refuse our evidencethat of Myself and of all those who are born of the Spirit]. John 3:2-11 As much as we may wish to write off end time prophecy as purely speculative or metaphoric imagery, we can discern the times and be aware of God in the midst of crisis on a world impacting scale (can anyone say Biblical proportions). We may not know the hour or the day, but we can perceive the times. But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know and understand that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside [the city] get out of it, and let not those who are out in the country come into it; For those are days of vengeance [of rendering full justice or satisfaction], that all things that are written may be fulfilled. Alas for those who are pregnant and for those who have babies which they are nursing in those days! For great misery and anguish and distress shall be upon the land and indignation and punishment and retribution upon this people. They will fall by the mouth and the edge of the sword and will be led away as captives to and among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled (completed). And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity [without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring (the echo) of the tossing of the sea, Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with great (transcendent and overwhelming) power and [all His kingly] glory (majesty and splendor). Now when these things begin to occur, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (deliverance) is drawing near. And He told them a parable: Look at the fig tree and all the trees; When they put forth their buds and come out in leaf, you see for

yourselves and perceive and know that summer is already near. Even so, when you see these things taking place, understand and know that the kingdom of God is at hand. Luke 21:20-31 Not my words, Jesus. John the Baptist was the first to actually recognize Jesus Christ for who He was. But his knowledge was not natural. Neither will ours be. John answered them, I [only] baptize in (with) water. Among you there stands One Whom you do not recognize and with Whom you are not acquainted and of Whom you know nothing. It is He Who, coming after me, is preferred before me, the string of Whose sandal I am not worthy to unloose. These things occurred in Bethany (Bethabara) across the Jordan [at the Jordan crossing], where John was then baptizing. The next day John saw Jesus coming to him and said, Look! There is the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world! This is He of Whom I said, After me comes a Man Who has priority over me [Who takes rank above me] because He was before me and existed before I did. And I did not know Him and did not recognize Him [myself]; but it is in order that He should be made manifest and be revealed to Israel [be brought out where we can see Him] that I came baptizing in (with) water. John gave further evidence, saying, I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and it dwelt on Him [never to depart]. And I did not know Him nor recognize Him, but He Who sent me to baptize in (with) water said to me, Upon Him Whom you shall see the Spirit descend and remain, that One is He Who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. John 1:26-33 Spiritual experience and intimacy are not counter to Biblical Christianity - they are the essence of Biblical Christianity. To trivialize the inner, intimate (often subjective) Spiritual experience of the faithful as emotionalism or another psychologically induced phenomenon, may be the biggest heresy of all. If any man desires to do His will (Gods pleasure), he will know (have the needed illumination to recognize, and can tell for himself) whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking from Myself and of My own accord and on My own authority. John 7:17 And we have learned to believe and trust, and [more] we have come to know [surely] that You are the Holy One of God, the Christ (the Anointed One), the Son of the living God. John 6:69 Freedom, real freedom, not religious subjection, is the calling card of Spiritual faith. So Jesus said to those Jews who had believed in Him, If you abide in My word [hold fast to My teachings and live in accordance with them], you are truly My disciples. And you will know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free. John 8:31-32 True Spirituality does not need to prove itself, other than to testify to what it does

know. Then he answered, I do not know whether He is a sinner and wicked or not. But one thing I do know, that whereas I was blind before, now I see. John 9:25 Spiritual authority does not need to demand or even expect submission. Spiritual authority is recognized for what it is, not what it wants to be. When he has brought his own sheep outside, he walks on before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. They will never [on any account] follow a stranger, but will run away from him because they do not know the voice of strangers or recognize their call. John 10:4-5 I am the Good Shepherd; and I know and recognize My own, and My own know and recognize Me Even as [truly as] the Father knows Me and I also know the Fatherand I am giving My [very own] life and laying it down on behalf of the sheep. John 10:14-15 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me. John 10:27 Spiritual knowledge is conveyed as much by deeds, if not more than words. If I am not doing the works [performing the deeds] of My Father, then do not believe Me [do not adhere to Me and trust Me and rely on Me]. But if I do them, even though you do not believe Me or have faith in Me, [at least] believe the works and have faith in what I do, in order that you may know and understand [clearly] that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father [One with Him]. John 10:37-38 Knowing is not enough If I then, your Lord and Teacher (Master), have washed your feet, you ought [it is your duty, you are under obligation, you owe it] to wash one anothers feet. For I have given you this as an example, so that you should do [in your turn] what I have done to you. I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, A servant is not greater than his master, and no one who is sent is superior to the one who sent him. If you know these things, blessed and happy and to be envied are you if you practice them [if you act accordingly and really do them]. John 13:14-17 By this shall all [men] know that you are My disciples, if you love one another [if you keep on showing love among yourselves]. John 13:35 John 14-17 - both in discourse and High priestly prayer, Jesus makes clear - the Spirit is our source of life and knowledge. He is not spoken of as a concept or principle to be grasped. He is not the Star Wars impersonal force. He is the third person to KNOW in our relation to the One God. It is in this relation that we come to know and understand. Outside relation and intimacy with Him, all there is, is speculative religion. It is this same disciple who is bearing witness to these things and who has recorded (written) them; and we [well] know that his testimony is true. John 21:24

Conclusion
From the preceding studies it should be obvious what the Holy Spirit is set about to accomplish in our lives. But, I must reckon that there are some who may as yet not feel secure that the Holy Spirit is actively engaged in accomplishing in their lives the will and work of God. So, what do we do? If there is a conclusion to this study (and I actually claim no such thing), may the Word of God, the Word of the Spirit of Christ lead us to that conclusion. "Conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ" and thereby "stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you" (Phil. 1:27,28 NIV). "If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from His love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion" then be "like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: who being in the very nature of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made Himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, humbled Himself and became obedient to death, even death on a cross! "(Phil, 2:1-8 NIV) "Therefore...as you have always obeyed...continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God ~o works in you to will and to act according to His good purpose." (Phil. 2:12,13 NIV). "As you have always obeyed", "obedience from the heart", with the same trust and confidence that brought you to Christ, even now and continuing, YOU! personally, with God in you, "work out your salvation." The Holy Spirit brought you to Christ, and the Holy Spirit will continue to reveal Christ to you. When he does, obey from the heart. Don't take the revelation of God and set it on a shelf and make excuses for disobedience. But with that same faith that first trusted Christ, step by step, walk in Christ. "Press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of" you (Phil. 3:12 NIV). "Forget what is behind...strain toward what is ahead...press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called" you (Phil. 3:13,14 NIV). "Live up to what you have already attained" (Phil. 3:16 NIV). "Join with others" follow the example of Christ, His apostles, and that form of doctrine which is according to true godliness. "Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him, rooted

and built up in Him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ..." (Col. 2:6-10 NIV). "Since you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God." Col. 3:1-3 NIV). "Put to death whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry...Rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator." (Col. 1:5,8,9,10 NIV). "Clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all the virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity." (Col. 3:12-14 NIV). Be thankful (Col. 3:15). Be holy, learn to control your own body (I Thes. 4:3,4). "Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands" (I Thes. 4:11 NIV). "Prepare your minds for action; be self controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all that you do" (I Peter 1:13-15 NIV). "Rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation" (I Peter 2:1,2 NIV). "Be clear minded and self controlled so that you can pray. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers a multitude of sins. Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling...use whatever gift" you have "received to serve others..." speak "as one speaking the very words of God..." serve "in the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ." (I Peter 4:7-11 NIV).

"Add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self control; and to self control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ." (II Peter 1:5-8).