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1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ

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Jim Waleke

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Post subject: 1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:17 am

Global Moderator Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:54 pm Posts: 21 Location: Michigan

Spent some time repairing the old 98 ACR's AC recently and wanted to share some research I had to do. The factory service manuals have a bunch of errors throughout the years and it appears those errors have been carried over to aftermarket print and electronic databases as well. The Chrysler part catalogs also aren't clear on a couple applications and parts have been superceded throughout the years which I will list here so you can make sure you're getting the right parts. R-134a Refrigerant Capacities --------------------------------------1995-1996 821 grams (29 oz. or 1.81 lbs) 1997-1999 784 grams (28 oz. or 1.75 lbs) The 1997, 1998, and parts of the 1999 FSM list the spec as 1.57 lbs (incorrectly) and that spec has been picked up by many aftermarket references that shops are using out there. The only parts unqiue to the 1995-1996 AC system are the filter-drier, Liquid line, and Suction line, so the additional capacity must be there. I personally tested the A/C performance using a thermocouple on the liquid line, measuring high side pressures, and plotting it on the performance chart in the FSM after charging the system accurately by weight and it falls dead center on the graph. Refrigerant Oil --------------------------1995-1999 Total System 200 mL or 6.75 oz. Filter Drier 30 mL or 1.0 oz. Condenser 30 mL or 1.0 oz. Evaporator 59 mL or 2.0 oz. All Refrigerant Lines 44 mL or 1.5 oz. The 1995-1996 FSM oil capacities reflect the pre TSB 24-07-95 increase of 2 oz. and it appears the 99 FSM did a cut and paste from a 95 or 96 FSM when it was printed and listed the old chart. The Neon uses ND8 PAG R-134a refrigerant oil. You probably aren't going to find it in local part stores. You can order a bottle of it from your Chrysler dealer under part number 82300102. If you replace a component you need to add the appropriate amount of new PAG ND8 oil from the list above. Condenser ----------------There are really only two condensers depending on if you have a car built in Belvidere, IL or Toluca, Mexico. The applications are due to the different radiators used at each of those plants. The Belvidere (cheaper in cost) condenser is 4740109 and the Toluca condenser is 4798950. O-Rings

--------------The parts catalogs are all over the place on the o-ring applications, but all 1995-1999 use O-ring 4796565 at each end of the condenser and the discharge line at the compressor (QTY 3). 4796564 is used for the suction line at the compressor (QTY 1). 4882139 are the o-rings at the filter-drier (QTY 2). Compressors ------------------The Neon uses a Nippon-denso 10PA17 R-134a compressor. 1995 application is 4874535 and the 1996-1999 applications are 5278462AA. I'd be happy to answer any other A/C questions I can or help with applications/part numbers if you PM me. Jim

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Johnny Ab

Post subject: Re: 1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:40 am

Neon Enthusiast Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:49 pm Posts: 1440 Location: Selinsgrove, PA

Good info! I also spent some time over the summer working on my A/C system. I was in school for automotive technology and had my HVAC class over the summer. I figured while I was in the class I would repair the leak I had in my system. One piece that might be good to put in with this info is the performance test procedure and performance test chart, or at least the respective numbers from it since you probably can't post the chart itself from the FSM. _________________ The Tao speaks not to the mind, but to the soul. It cares little for numbers or measurements; in fact, to fixate on arbitrary numbers is to deny the Tao. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep Service Technician - ASE Master Tech in waiting. 95 Plymouth Highline SOHC ATX: 145k miles. 3.0 Intake, Flowmaster Exhaust, MPx Underdrive Pulley, Suspension Techniques Sway Bars, Prothane Sway Bar bushings and endlinks, Depo Diamond Clear Headlights and Turn Signals, Prothane Lower Control Arm Bushings.

Top alpinegreenneon Post subject: Re: 1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:00 pm

From the FSM:

Global Moderator Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:15 am Posts: 5819 Location: Northwest Wisconsin

PERFORMANCE TEST PROCEDURE Review Safety Precautions and Warnings in this group before proceeding with this procedure. Air temperature in test room and on vehicle must be 21 C (70F) minimum for this test. NOTE: When connecting the service equipment coupling to the line fitting, verify that the valve of the coupling is fully closed. This will reduce the amount of effort required to make the connection. (1) Connect a tachometer and manifold gauge set. (2) Set control to A/C, RECIRC, and PANEL, temperature lever on full cool and blower on high. (3) Start engine and hold at 1000 rpm with A/C clutch engaged. (4) Engine should be warmed up with doors and windows closed. (5) Insert a thermometer in the left center A/C outlet and operate the engine for five minutes. The A/C clutch may cycle depending on ambient conditions. (6) With the A/C clutch engaged, compare the discharge air temperature to the A/C Performance Temperatures chart (Fig. 10). (7) If the discharge air temperature fails to meet the specifications in the performance temperature chart. Refer to the Refrigerant Service Procedures for

further diagnosis.

There is a lot more in the FSM about A/C diagnosis and repair. Consider this just a sample of what you could find if you get your own FSM. Mopar ND8 PAG oil 82300102 Warning it's expensive. 82300102 $53.95 list $35.58 net LUBRICANT OIL Autozone and google say it's 46 ISO. Don't overfill or cooling will be poor. 5264580AB $104.00 list $68.63 net Hvac - Air conditioner - Drier Drier, neon 1995 - 1996 4883282 $108.00 list $71.22 net Hvac - Air conditioner - Drier Drier, neon 1997 - 1999 moparonlineparts.com wermopar.com

DiscountedMoparParts.com MoparPartsAmerica.com (Compare prices from the above sites for the best deal) (Prices listed are a guide if you go to a local dealer. If you use the online site, shipping and handling are added.) _________________ Case

Printable .doc files for OBDII codes '96-'99 codes '95 codes 98 Sport Coupe Alpine Green ATX stock 98 Sport Coupe Amethyst ATX to MTX swap (son's) 97 Expresso Coupe Black ATX stock (daughter's) 97 Sport Coupe Magenta ATX stock (wife's) 95 NYG ACR Coupe (project) 03 Dakota QC 4.7 4x4 ATX Patriot Blue stock

Top Jim Waleke Post subject: Re: 1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:50 am

Global Moderator Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:54 pm Posts: 21 Location: Michigan

Here is a cut and paste of the System Charge Level Test Procedure. This is the test I referred to in my original message after charging the system accurately by weight. I did charge a system a couple years ago using this method with ACRMAN before I decided to invest in a scale and it worked well. I think we charged using two complete cans you could buy in the auto parts store and then kept titrating the third can until the liquid line temps and high side pressures fell in the shaded zone in the chart. Notice the incorrect weight specification (1.57 lbs instead of the correct 1.75 lbs). This is from the 1999 Factory Service Manual and the Figure 12 below is actually Figure 15 in alpinegreenneon's post above. He must have grabbed it from one of the other model years.

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Jim Waleke

Post subject: Re: 1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:32 am

Global Moderator Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:54 pm Posts: 21 Location: Michigan

Forgot the mention not to use any of those R134a cans in the auto parts store with the stop leak gunk or leak dye. Chrylser will void your warranty if it finds it in the system and has released a TSB to that effect. It's been known to clog AC service equipment and hoses. Probably not a warranty concern for first generation neons as all of them are out of even an extended warranty, but it applies to all Chrysler vehicles. You can find pure R134a in a can in those stores if you look. Leak Dyes -----------Chrysler has only approved the R134a leak dye from Bright Solutions in Troy, MI. You can buy the 1/4 oz. one time use bottles from Chrysler for a couple bucks each with part number 4798219. You'll need a UV light obviously.

Top Rick '99 Flame Red R/T Post subject: Re: 1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:26 am

Neon Enthusiast Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 1:54 pm Posts: 1834

Well leak dye should NOT clog your system, someone correct me if I'm wrong; BUT, the sealant mixed with refrigerant "CAN" clog your AC system, you should NOT use it simply because its bad for the AC system, regardless of the warranty or if it voids it. More than once I have just tightened up the bolts to all the connections on an AC system and it seemed to stop

the leak, really avoid the "stop leak", sealant type recharge cans, they "may" mess up your AC system. _________________ '99 Flame Red R/T Iceman CAI, AFX 55mm TB, P&P Intake Manifold and Head, MP Street Header, MP PCM, AFX UDP, ES Bushings, MP Rear 22mm Swaybar, MP Hi-Rates, Koni Struts

Top Jim Waleke Post subject: Re: 1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:10 pm

Global Moderator Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:54 pm Posts: 21 Location: Michigan

I don't think I'd be that concerned that any R134a leak dyes causes harm to a system, but just be aware that there exist different leak dye formulations for the different types of refrigerant (R12 vs R134a). Chrysler used to state they only approved the Bright Solutions stuff and provided BS's part numbers for the dye and injectors. Now Chrysler just rebadges the stuff and sells it through its parts department usings its own part numbers. I only listed the R134a part, but they also sell the R12 leak dye in the same size bottle. Having seen quite a few neon AC systems fail since 1995, the most common failure point I've seen has been the condenser followed by the evaporator. Jim

Top Sedanman2liter Post subject: Re: 1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:04 pm

thanks i see this being very useful in the future

New Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:01 pm Posts: 28 Top geedgas Post subject: Re: 1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:50 pm

_________________ 96 NEON

New Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:49 pm Posts: 14 Top Jim Waleke

How about an electic circuit for this A/C system? Are you have some? It look like my compressor working all time. Is their any switch to cut it off, and where is it location?

Post subject: Re: 1st Gen Air Conditioning Specifications for the FAQ

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:54 am

Global Moderator Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:54 pm Posts: 21 Location: Michigan

geedgas wrote: How about an electic circuit for this A/C system? Are you have some? It look like my compressor working all time. Is their any switch to cut it off, and where is it location?

The clutch circuit is controlled by the PCM. There's a low pressure cut-off switch located at the firewall on the expansion valve and a high pressure cut-off switch located on the compressor itself. I'm only familar with domestic, US versions of the AC system. I'm only mentioning it because of the fact you're asking about AC while I'm putting Blizzaks on my car and the wording of your question. I suspect you may have an export Neon.

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