A Dialogue with Aamir Mughal

What do you think (Your opinion) is the current political problem in Pakistan? Aamir Mughal: The problem is not current; the problem is as old as Pakistan is which mixing Religion with the Politics to attain some desired results and even the Founding Fathers cannot absolve themselves from this Political Blunder which proved detrimental for a diverse Pakistani society consist upon people of different beliefs, ethnicities, sects, and interpretation. During the Cold War, the Pakistani State to counter Soviet Russia at the behest of USA encouraged the Religious elements to counter every thought related with Secular or Progressive ideas what to talk of Pure Socialist thoughts and gradually these Religious Forces encroached every section of society and ultimately the US Backed Afghan Jihad was last the nail in the coffin of Secular and Liberal thoughts in Pakistan. Pakistans pathetic and poor planned policies to support Religious Elements silently eroded the State writ and Mullahs or Mullah types elements entered in policy making process which If we see critically was another blunder to allow such Radical Elements in decision making process and ultimate result is the Sectarian Killings all over Pakistan. Until and unless Religion and Religious Narratives are not removed from Decision making/policy making process there is no hope for Pakistan even the parties like PPP, PML-N, MQM, and ANP try to appease Mullahs to attain some votes in Pakistan. Just an example for the reference How Mullahs/State supported each other from the pen of a Retired Brigadier MMA and the NSC By A.R. Siddiqi 30 June 2004 (Read Article) please do watch this interview of Pakistani Historian Dr Mubarak Ali and (watch it completely) it will Fill in many blanks about Pakistan Tracing the Roots of Religious Extremism Dr. Mubarak Ali (Read Article) Isnt it that Pakistan itself was founded on religious grounds? So if at all a secular future is planned the very History of foundation of Pakistan and partition of the then India cannot be undone from the hearts of Pakistani citizen. Your comments Aamir Mughal: Yes, religion was used by Jinnah and All India Muslim League to attain some quick results while conveniently forgetting the Sectarian Divide within the Alleged Ummah and miscalculated that the Mullahs would ultimately exploit AIML/Jinnah pre partition use of religion to enforce their agenda. People often quote Jinnahs 11 Aug 1947 Speech to say that Jinnah wanted a Secular Pakistan whereas there are other sayings J of Jinnah which are quite opposed to what he said on 11 Aug 1947 speech which was pointed out by Renowned Pakistani Historian Dr Mubarak Ali (I earlier quoted his lecture), here are some glaring example of how Mullahs hijacked the country and put it on the verge of Sectarian Inferno which if not controlled would smoke the whole region, references The State of Sectarianism in Pakistan 2005 Crisis Group (Read Article) The Militant Jihadi Challenge 2009 Crisis Group (Read Article). Pakistan Karachi Madrasas and Violent Extremism 2007 Crisis Group (Read Article). Pakistans Failure to Tackle Extremism 2004 Crisis Group (Read Article) You think on an average Pakistani citizen is secular minded?

Aamir Mughal: Average Pakistani want peace, development and prosperity despite being Religious and practicing Muslim (Practicing Muslims like present day hypocritical Muslims) . Years of negative projection of the wrong meaning of Secular as Atheism (literally Kufr /Apostasy), has basically ruined the free thinking process even in the so-called educated Middle Class. They least bothered to ponder that in any Diverse Society e.g. Pakistan, only Secular State (Secular State like in India which despite all ills still tolerate diverse faith) can guarantee national cohesion and unity above all peace. Does an average Pakistani Citizen and average Pakistani bureaucrat or any Government official expect Pakistani state to be Secular? Aamir Mughal: Average Pakistani Bureaucrat (whether Civilian or Military) is even more confused they want Peace, Democracy, and Development all at the same time but never fail to mention love of narrating the Islamic Narrative for the State whereas if we closely monitor their own conduct they are far from anything Islamic (literally speaking), hypocrisy is the order of the day. Exhibiting religion is the hobby. To be blunt, Pakistan and Pakistanis are dangling between an strange definition of Islam i.e. Mix plate of Deobandi, Barelvi, Shia, Ahl-e-Hadith (i.e. Wahabi/Salafi) Islam and Anglo Saxon style of Westminster governance and ultimate result is total chaos. Will it be right to say that Pakistans policies were poor or pathetic- and the Mullah Politics as mentioned by you, were the need of time? Your comments. Aamir Mughal: Policies are always made by keeping in mind the fall out of such polities on domestic policies e.g. Pakistani State (USA is part and parcel in all this) used Religious Right in countering Leftist influence which ultimately resulted in radicalization of Pakistani society and when Jamat-e-Islami and other faction of Afghan Mujahideen (1979 to 1988) didnt unite in Afghanistan and started fighting each other then Pakistan and equally USA/Saudi Arabia used Deobandi Taliban to finish the Afghan Civil War (1988 to 1996) and this usage resulted in the shape of Deobandi Sectarian War Mongering within Pakistan. To understand my point here is the reference: Sunni VS Shia & Sunni VS Sunni & General Zia! (Read Article) Mindset Behind The Shia Killings in Pakistan/Afghanistan. (Read Article) NOTE: There are some pages in the first link in URDU language, get it translated, it is a research done by a Salafi researcher who is defining the Historical Sectarian Divide within Muslims and its negative impact in the past history. In India- we have a perception or through political academicians we learn that For Pakistani citizens, the idea of Pakistan becomes strong (it becomes easy to unite people) when hate-talks about India, propagation of Islam, Jihad and revenge/fight against Hinduism and so called atrocities committed on Muslims in India by Hindus is propagated. How far is it right to say this. Is on an average-educated Pakistani citizen still believes in this philosophy. Aamir Mughal: To a great extent it is correct but internet and Media freedom have started a process which can be called melting the ice between common Indians and Pakistanis. Pakistani Muslims do quote and shamelessly too that Muslims in India are in bad shape but conveniently forget that at least there are also Indians like Rajinder Sachar and his marvelous Sachar Commission Report and Pakistanis also conveniently mention Anti Muslim riots but forget to mention Harsh Mandar like gentleman.

Here is my perspective which I shared with Pakistanis to give them jolts References Koenraad Elst, Destruction of Temples & Mughals Indo-Pak History & Communalization of History. Communal Politics in India Part 1 Communal Politics in India Part 2 Murder of History in Pakistan. IS it possible and is it advisable, considering the entire national and international Politics of which Pakistani is part, to undo the role of Islam from political life in Pakistan.(IS it possible? Is it advisable?) Aamir Mughal: Sooner they do it better it would be, read the observation of my friend Raza Rumi who is far more knowledgeable than me in these matters quote Nothing justifies violence and, more critically, self-harm. Instead of bashing the world, I am more worried about what is happening to the society in which I live, and where I want my children to grow up. The Pakistani state has very little time left to reorient its strategic worldview and its overarching paradigm of pursuing an ambitious, expansionist regional policy by using extremists as convenient proxies and promoting extremism as the only version of a nationalist discourseunquote Reference: Is the state disintegrating? By Raza Rumi Published: September 25, 2012. If Pakistan goes secular, then what about the dream of Islamic space in the World, which Pakistan wanted to create? Aamir Mughal: What Islamic Space Pakistanis want in the WorldJ Pipe Dreams ? The way Pakistani Muslims or even Indian and Bengali Muslims are treated at the Oil Rich Gulf States are eye openers for the so-called Muslim Ummah to Muslims please wake up Once, few astute rulers of Pakistan did wanted Pakistan to become the leader of Islamic World? You think if Pakistan goes secular, that dream will be lost and the very identity of Pakistan as a Islamic Nation will be lost. Aamir Mughal: Such leaders e.g. Blatant and Flagrant Racism of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan in 1887 SPEECH OF SIR SYED AHMED AT LUCKNOW [1887] (Read Article) and Megalomaniac Zulfikar Ali Bhutto reached his destination i.e. Shrine and such leaders are Relics and their real face isJ Lies and war histories. A post-script on the Hamoodur Rahman Report. A.G. NOORANI Volume 17 Issue 21, Oct. 14 27, 2000 Indias National Magazine from the publishers of THE HINDU (Read Article) Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Bengali Pigs (Read Article) Zulfikar Bhutto Supported Military Operation against Bengalis the way forward is Truth and Reconciliation within Pakistan and with India and Secular System like India must be gradually implemented in Pakistan. (To watch the video Click Here)

Secularism is of two kinds- the one followed in India and the other type which is followed in countries like France? What kind of Secularism does Pakistan contemplates for its citizens. Aamir Mughal: Secularism like India is the best for Pakistan because we Pakistanis were after all Indians some years agoJ - a piece of advice :- Spill over of Afghanistan ruined Pakistan, and spill over of Pakistan can ruined the whole region or already ruining it. What do you think about the current- Judicial activism in Pakistan? Aamir Mughal: This Judicial activism is also one of the biggest fraud of decade and in my humble opinion this Lawyers Movement was itself a Drama of Deep State to oust General Pervez Musharraf from Army and then from power completely. Judiciary in Pakistan has always been pro State or rather Pro Military Establishment (even during Lawyers Movement Judiciary provided a breather too, Read More), here is the precise Judicial History of Pakistan with References. Judicial Jitters in Pakistan A Historical Overview Hamid Hussain Defense Journal, June 2007, Judicial Reforms in Pakistan. What is your opinion about the Bureaucracy in Pakistan vis-a-vis meeting the public demands and necessities in the current democratic set-up? (You may share any personal experience about the same) Aamir Mughal: One of the reasons present mess in Pakistan is its Civil Bureaucracy who from the the very start acted like Brown Sahab particularly in the Former East Pakistan and now Bangladesh, and in Sindh rather Civil Bureaucracy in early period consisted upon those ICS Officers whose behavior was riddled with stiff neck Ashrafiya Class attitude towards local people of Bangladesh and Sindh. Incompetent Founding Father of Pakistan All India Muslim League were so thoroughly incompetent that these ICS Officers manipulated them and politicians used Bureaucracy against political opponents during the very start of Pakistan ultimately Military imposed Martial Law in 1958 and Civil Bureaucracy was hand in gloves with Military in Ruling the Pakistan, Civil Bureaucrats in Pakistan always taught Military the loopholes of Civilian System., here are the references Reforming Pakistans Civil Service Wasnt it that, philosophy of radicalism is a product of Maulana Maududi and his Mullah followers, rather than the ICS or civil service officers who were perhaps to considerable extent loyal followers of Mr. Jinnah? Your comments. Aamir Mughal: Founders of Pakistan i.e. Jinnah and AIML used Militants much before Mawdudi came into picture and I am not absolving Mawdudi and his party for what they did in 1953 in Punjab during Anti Quadiyani Movement (for declaring them Apostate) , here is the report on which would open your eyes on Mullahs and Pakistans mess. Munir Commission Report (1954). Watch a rare interview of Mawdudis son on Pakistan these links are most important Lies with Mullahs Mullahni on GEO TV Lie with Professor Shariful Mujahid on Pakistan

You think Pakistan has a stable future in the current policies and politics which is being adopted in Pakistan? Aamir Mughal: Pakistan has stable future provided they formulate a clear policy towards Mullahs and put them on tight leash and complete peace with India and sort out Historical Disputes and allow me to say India must be easy on Pakistan, give Pakistan breathing space. India must be easy on Pakistan- as you put it, perhaps in India the opinion is a little reverse, Nationalist forces in India criticize Indian Govt for going soft on Pakistan. Well this is something which we must put light uponAamir Mughal: Though Utopian but India and Pakistan both should arrange a conference between Mullahs and RSS, VHP, and Bajran Dal. More on more interaction at middle class and working class level should be encouraged for dialogue. What are the ways, in your opinion, India should go easy on Pakistan? Where all- India is hard on Pakistan? Aamir Mughal: Inspite of established International opinion that terror outfits and training camps are functional within Pakistan, what do you think, India should do, if not go tough on Pakistan? Aamir Mughal: No Comment. Had Pakistan been in Indias place, what would have been the most possible response from the Pakistans side? Aamir Mughal: In the same manner like India. How far is Kashmir question relevant in an ordinary mans life in Pakistan? Aamir Mughal. Not at all and by the way this too is kind of Pakistans own mistake. Reference with footage. Najam Sethi on Siachen, Kargil & Kashmir.