> > > > >

May I get some basic brief on 101 & 103 protocol, from end user's point of view? viz. functionality, data points, etc. I ve worked on Modbus protocol, so u may compare with Modbus while explaining.

This is a very open-ended question. Each protocol has a specific purpose: Modbus is a DCS protocol that reports the state of a set of data points each time that data is scanned. It does not report changes on those points that occur between scans. Its purpose is to report the "current state" of a system. Modbus has a "general" data structure of boolean and integer values that can be interpreted in any way that the system wishes. IEC 60870-5-101 is a SCADA protocol specifically intended for electric power applications. It reports changes in state of the monitored data points and can report time-stamps for these changes. It is able to prioritize the data reporting in order to send high priority data more quickly. It includes some power-system specific data types for monitoring some particular power devices (e.g. transformer tap positions) and has specific control types to ensure that only the correct output is changed when a command is issued. The protocol includes a concept of a current state for most data points but generally only reports the changes to those points. The data is strongly typed: each data type is expected to be interpreted in the specific way it is defined in the standard. It is not generally acceptable to reinterpret values as a generic binary data value that can be interpreted in any way the user chooses. IEC 60870-5-103 is somewhat similar to -101 except that it includes specific data types for modeling power system protection devices. These devices have the characteristic that some of the data they report will only relate to some specific types of power system event (such as switching a circuit breaker to avoid an overload) and when these events occur they report a set of data values measured in association with that event. Because of this, these devices report some data as having a state or a change of state (as -101 does) and some data is reported only when one of these monitored events occur and has no "value" or "does not exist" at other times. This protocol has specific data types that relate to characteristics of the systems that they monitor such as the duration of fault conditions, etc. The IEC protocols have a layered architecture. Some data link control messages act as proxies for application layer messages (e.g. poll requests). A thorough knowledge of Modbus is of limited use in understanding the detail of the IEC protocols because they have relatively little in common. The IEC standards must be read carefully because the descriptions for each feature are generally only presented once. The -101 and -103 companion standards refer to selections of features (described in other parts of the IEC 60870 series) that are used in these protocols. This is a very brief summary of some of the features of these protocols. Others may identify other features of the protocols that they find particularly interesting or that they think differentiate the protocols.

1. Whose duty is polling ? Must user call some function anything like PollNext() or protocol stack must use, for example, timer and poll substations himself on timer event? Or may be is user must choose what substation we need to poll (like Poll(addr))? > > To put it simply, in SCADA system, the Master station polls the substations to acquire actual states of data from the field collected by the substations. > Other mechanisms for data acquisition are reporting of data periodically and reporting of change of state data by the substations without being requested by the Master station. These methods are used in balanced mode. > In unbalanced mode, the controlled stations are always a slave, meaning they cannot initiate any transmission of data to the controlling station without being polled. This restriction is useful if your system has a multidrop link configuration, i.e the links between several controlled stations and the controlling station shares a common physical channel. In this case, the links must be operated in unbalanced mode to avoid 2 or more controlled stations transmitting to the channel at the same instant. > In SCADA system polling is usually performed periodically, on timer event. To read more on how polling should be implemented, refer to 6.2 in IEC 608705-5. I asked about other things. I mean software implementation where user software call protocol stack. For example user software can call protocol stack with PollNext() function. Then protocol stack himself choose what link this need to poll. Other case when user software wich use our protocol stack decide what link it must poll and when. > > 2. Must we complete full application level procedures with one link before start these or other procedures with other link ? I.e., for example, when we initialize master station we send to each slave sequence {request status of link, reset of remote link}. Can we in this case send {request status of link} for all substations and then send {reset of remote link} to all substations (of course we need receive ACKs from substations on each send)? > > I'm not sure if you intend to send RqstStatusOfLink to each slave sequentially and then ResetOfLink sequentially or to send a broadcast for RequestStatusOfLink & ResetOfLink. I don't think the latter is allowed because since RqstStatusOfLink and ResetOfLink is REQ/RESP and SEND/CONFIRM type of services respectively, they need to be transmitted to each slave and replied by each slave with a unique link address. I mean first case when i send ReqStatLink to each slave and then ResetOfLink to each slave. Can i do it or i must send ReqStatLink and then ResetOfLink to first link, then both to second and so on. And now i have next question: consider both controlling and controlled station switched on at once. In this case master station do not wait endOfInit from slave, but send interrogation start request. But slave wait polling for sending endOfInit and instead receive interrogation start request. By the way, slave can continue initialization after reseting link and can not start interrogation. What must do master and slave in this case ? -------------- next part -------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://trianglemicroworks.com/pipermail/iec608705_trianglemicroworks.com/attachments/20051209/a15b72fe/attachment.htm

The operation of balanced and unbalanced modes are described in IEC 60870-5-2 and IEC 60870-5-5. I suggest you look at these descriptions first (in particular the initialization and data collection sequences in -5-5) to see if the devices are following the procedures correctly. Some devices simply do not support balanced mode, so be sure that you have checked the user manuals to verify if it balanced mode is supported and, if it is, how to configure it to be used. Both the controlling station and the controlled station must be configured to use the same mode. Also, be aware that balanced mode requires a full-duplex point-to-point link between each pair of devices (a controlling station and a controlled station) and it does not work on multi-drop or half-duplex channels. Employ normal trouble shooting practices to identify the traffic that is being sent and isolate the area that is exhibiting a non-conformance. This should assist you to identify where the problem is located. It may be helpful to use a protocol simulator or test set device that is known to operate correctly and use this to simulate each device in turn. This may help identify which device has the problem. Salem, IEC 60870-5-101 has data types and application funcitons (open and close breakers, raise and lower transformer tap positions and alter analog set points, etc.) that are suitable for monitoring and control of the power grid. It is optimised for that purpose. IEC 60870-5-103 has data types and functions optimised for reporting protection events and performing a limited set of control funcitons (primarily tripping a breaker and selecting operating modes). Some data types are similar in both protocols, but it is very difficult to perform "general" SCADA funcitons in IEC 60870-5-103 without adding many "private" data types and services (which is permitted, but means that each installation is unique). IEC 60870-5-101 provides standard methods to do these same tasks, so it is much easier (and usually less expensive) to use for general SCADA funcitons. Multiple slave devices are identified in two ways: On a single communicatoin channel, each device has a unique data link address that controls which device should accept and respond to commands. The same data link address could be used by more than one device in a system as long as they are on different channels. Each device is also given a unique Common Address of ASDU (CAA) and this address is unique system-wide. The data reported from the field is identified by this CAA. All messages containing data include the CAA to identify the data.

-Andrew West SCADA Communication Consultant Phone: +61 7 3870 0739 Mobile: +61 41 975 4 975 Email: andrew.west at ieee.org ABN: 58 132 496 008 On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:29 PM, salem aly <salem_msr at yahoo.com> wrote: > Dear Sir, > I'm SCADA Engineer at DMS at Electricity Distribution Company in Egypt , I > have a question hope you answer it . > 1) Why we use IEC 60870-5-101 for Control center and IEC-103 for Protection > ? why not vise-versa ? > 2)How multiple slaves are managed in SCADA / Protocol IEC-101 ? > Thanks and my best regards >