ThelmaDepo 7

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THELMA
FORD
182
somebody. to? said, and She
We said,
said, Give
Fine. me
Who
do to
you
want to.
to
talk We to,
2 3 4
somebody Pick did.
talk
Take talk Q. A. Q. to
your them. How
choice. She
whoever It was
you over.
want
5
6 7
ma~y
people
did
she
talk
to?
Three. Three the children. she Do talked you remember the
8 9
10
names
of A.
children now. MR.
to?
Not
HODGE:
At We've
this been
point, through have -point,
I'm
going
11
./
to of
assert
an
objection. in which asking MR.
a series
12
depositions from
plaintiffs any questions
been
13 14
15
precluded
BERNSTEIN:
Fair
Counselor. MR. instances, until we so are if we able to HODGE: could look -- about defer at the those specific questions reports.
16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
redacted Sure.
MR.
BERNSTEIN: Bernstein)
Q.
gather had that
(By Mr. the
And
prior Agency's
to
1995, workers
Child
Protection
1995
been A. Q.
out
there
before
as
well?
Yes. Do you remember anything about those
24
25
visits?
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 183
A.
He had a complaint came out. what tell
about
a little
boy,
2
3
and
they
Q.
And don't about was don't know
your
counsel
was
4
5
talking A.
Q.
me the names. I don't know.
I don't You
the names.
don't
remember
any of the names
7
8
anyway? A. I know.
Q.
They
checked
the boy out,
and
that's
all
9
10
But Yes.
they
actually
got
to --
11
12
A.
Q.
pick do you I don't Do you
him out, remember remember remember
and when when
talk that that
to the was? was. times
boy.
13
14 15
Okay.
And A. Q.
any other have been
that
the
16 17 18 19
20
Child
Protection A.
Q. A. Q. A. Q.
workers
to New
Bethany?
Yes. And do you remember when that happened?
In 1988. And do you I don't What remember when in 1988?
21 22
23
know. in 1988? That's when they
happened
A. usually
Q.
Probably come. And

---
in July.
24
25
in let's
say
in 1988,
I gather
some
l.
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184
THELMA
FORD
7/21/97
Child
Protection
A.
workers
came
out
to New
Bethany?
2 3 4 5 6
Yes. And do you recall what they wanted?
Q. A.
To investigate. MR. BERNSTEIN: And I think occurred probably to me is back get So I asking --
what I
j
would this have
make
sense
is -- what's and
7 8 9
that
is all ground, to go across with regard
I'm going once
to come
i and
may
again
the documents about and skip it. over
produced just
to questions point
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20
go ahead about
at this that,
questions after
all
reserving
my right
we recess
to come
back. I would about prefer that you of
MR. HODGE: not the ask the witness questions simply
the nature been
investigation from
because
I have
precluded
asking
MR.
those
questions. Also,
I
HARPER: was
would
like and
to
point they're any
out
that
there
a court and you
proceeding can go get
public
documents, to.
those
time
you want
I'm sure
you've
already
21
22
gotten
some. MR. BERNSTEIN: MR. HARPER: that Her Oh, I do. of the
23
24
memory
incident Q.
..
~s not
really
important. Mr. Harper mentioned
25
(By Mr.
Bernstein)
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 185
there
were
some
court
proceedings
in 1988. came
Do you out?
2
3 4
remember
A. Q.
how
those
court
proceedings
(No verbal Do you
response) if one side won or lost
remember
5
6
the
court A.
proceed~ngs All I know,
in 19887 I'm still there. I know what
7
8 9
happened.
Q.
Okay. They
What took
happened? but they left and the said, went
A. rest we're \ home.

Q.
28 girls,
10
of them. having
So we called trouble.
the parents
11
/.
So the rest
of them
12
13
14
And Yes.
that
was
in 1988?
A.
Q.
15
16
How many
times
have
you
-- let me ask you or were And and taken then said,
this: with you Come
In other the State
words, Child
28 girls
left
17 18 19
20
Protection
workers. girls
called
the parents them? I said,
of the other
and get A.
No. State. the
We have
had an interference child them? here, Make or do your
21 22
23
with you
the want
Do you want to come
your
State
and get them. school
choice.
Q. A.
-_.
So they
ca~e
and got the
r'
24
Did you
close
at that
point?
25
Temporarily.
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/" "
FORD
7/21/97
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186
Q. A.
And by close I didn't Well, who the
-it. They closed closed. just Okay? say it. We won't the we
2 3 4
close
Q. argue school agree about was
school it.
became We'll
closed
5 6 7
8
closed
at that
point.
Can
on that?
A. Q.
Okay. And both No. Were that girls Just there meant that there were not any --
9 10 11 12
13
was
that
A. Q.
and boys? girls. only girls there at that time?
A.
Q.
Girls. There sChool were only girls there And in 1988, you said
14 15 16 17 18 19
20
and
the
was
closed long
in 1988. was
I
"temporarily." A. Q. For Girls

A. Q.
I
How
it closed? no idea. New Bethany Home
don't
know. times
have
How many closed? I don't It's Yes. And Yes. Do you Home
has the
know. now. Right?
closed
21 22 23
24
A.
Q.
it closed
in '88?
A.
Q.
recall
any other
times
that
New
25
Bethany
,_-,----
For Girls ---
closed?
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 187
A.
Q.
(No verbal Is that I don't At any accepting
response) no, or I don't remember?
2
3 4
a yes,
A.
Q.
remember. time did you send the girls Home home For
5 6
7
and
stop
girls
at New Bethany
Girls?
A.
I didn't them.
send
them
home.
The parents
8
9
came
and got
Q.
Did the parents there, and you other
come stopped the
and get
the girls new girls
10 11 12
f '
that
were
accepting two we've
on any occasions about?

A. Q.
than
talked
13 14 15
I don't When that Home you
recall. say "I don't recall," is it the than New the
possible Bethany two
you did? For Girls talked
It is possible closed about? another time. at some
that other
16 17 18 19
20
times
A.
we've
I can't
recall
I just
don't
know. MR. BERNSTEIN: be finished Why with don't Mrs. we take Ford at a
21 22
23 24
short this
break. point,
I may
if I can have MR. HODGE:
a short
break,
Counselor. it takes
If that's
what
to end
this
deposition. (Recess)
'_
25
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THELMA
FORD
---
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..- ---1-8-8-
Q. tried
!
(By Mr. avoid doing that well. th~ any
Bernstein) is passing some of the
All
right. so
What I'm
we've
2 3
4
to
you, other to Home
asking have about do
you
questions up as of at
lawyers asking For to you Girls,
thought the you home?
Going New time
back
5
6
closing recall
Bethany
threatening
close
the
7
8 9
A.
Q. send the A. that this Q. A. Let's just he the but
I
Threatening? Yes. girls Oh, Threatening off?

I
the
close
the
home
and
10 11
r' ....
have
a lot
of
times.
You
asked
me
12
13
morning. About Yeah. close quits wai

I
threatening Have the his am by

I
to
close the
the
home?
14 IS 16 17
18
ever
made
statement: on you.
I
home? job. the
Every Let Girls in. me
pastor tell
Monday So every
morning, that's week,
Home,
quit
keep What's Dark.
taking your
them maiden
19 20 21 22
23 24
....... /
Q.
A. Q. A. Q. daughters
name?
D-A-R-K? Uh-huh.
J
You
had
told Olin
me
that
one
of
your
I
I
married Correct.
King's
son?
25
A.
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THELMA
FORD
----------7/21/97
189
1
'1
I
Q.
A. Q. A. Q.
What
was
his name?
2
3 4
Douglas. Douglas Douglas And King? Olin King. of your see. other Wade sons-in-law? Sutton. want the to?
5
6
the names
A.
Q.
Gracious. You Wade
Let's
7
8
can give Sutton.
me couples, Can I just
if you give
A. last names.
Q.
you
9
10
Sure And
-- well,
just which
go ahead. daughter?
Wade
11 12
13 14
Sutton. A.
Q. A. Q. A.
he married
Thelia. And do you T-H-E-L-I-A. Okay. Sheila Where and Tim Nixon. do Sheila and Tim Nixon live? spell that T-H-A-L-I-A?
15 16
17
18
Q. A.
Q.
In South
Carolina.
19
20
In Walterboro? Walterboro And They And And area. Wade Sutton and Theila?
A.
Q. A. Q.
21
22
23 24
how about live
in Thaxton, that Doug
Mississippi. King and --
I gather Penny
A.
Q.
I l__
live
~n North Carolina?
-.
Carolina.
25
__
Where
in North
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;THELMA
FORD
7/21/97
----I
190
A.
Q.
In Walnut Walnut Uh-huh, Dove? Cove,
Cove.
2
3 4 5
6
Cove? Cove.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
C-O-V-E. and Tim Nixon. living Who in the else is Sheila
So you had Sheila Tim Nixon, South and
7
8
married
they're
Walterboro, married? A.
Q.
Carolina
area.
9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16
Robby And
and Tim Johnson. live where?
they
A.
Q.
In Shuler, And then?
Louisiana.
A.
Q.
Maxine
and Bobby he spell
Jarrell. his last name?
How does
A.
Q.
J-A-R-R-E-L-L. And they live where? Let's see. How many more do
17
18
A.
I
In Bastrop.
19 20 21 22
23
24
/,
'"'--
have?
Q.
Now,
we've
got
Penny
and Theila
and
Sheila
and A.
Robbie And
and Maxine. not married. and Richard And Janet
Doug's Wallace
Shreve.
Q.
Gwen
Wallace. to which one
Richard girls?
Wallace
is married
25
of your
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ITH;LMA --;ORD- --7/~~97--------------1
---
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191
A. Q. A.
Gwen. Who? Gwen. And where do they live?
2 3 4 5 6 7
Q.
A.
In Houston. And then Janet Dale is married and to? they live in
Q. A.
Calhoun. Q. A.
Shreve.
Shreve,
8
9 10
Do
you
know
where
in
California?
Calhoun,
Louisiana. I thought I know She name? you said Calhoun Mark Bell. is?
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18
Q.
California. A. Q. A.
Oh,
Calhoun.
Calhoune. And And Bell, And In And And And Melanie. the last
where
married
B-E-L-L. they live -Georgia.
Q. A.
Q.
Lawrenceville, you Tim Doug said
Robbie?
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Gwen, Robbie is he
A.
Q.
Johnson. is not married. Ken or Kenny --
married? A. Kenny Oh, who? I was There's trying Sheila, to only read one my boy. handwriting.
Q.
Janet,
Maxine,
Theila,
Melanie,
1
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1- -. - ..- - -.THELMA FORD
----.
7/21/97 192
--I
I
1
A. Q. Cove, North
A. Q.
It was Penny
Penny.
is
married
to Doug
King,
Walnut
3
4 5
Carolina? Correct. Do you ever have big family get-togethers
will
all of them? A.
Q.
7
8
Yes, Most you seen No.
most
of them. Is there seen anybody in your that
of them. haven't
9 10 11
12
family you
that
for a long two years?
time,
haven't A.
Q.
in the past
I remember were
you
telling in 1949.
me that Do you your
you
and
13 14 15 16 17
18
your what
husband day A. Q. A. Q.
married
remember day?
in 1949.
I
You do remember that day,
wedding
remember night?
7. 7.
that
night.
That April April
19
20
MR. second.
BERNSTEIN:
Off
the record
21 22
23
(Off-the-record Q. or any Roloff (By Mr. Bernstein)
discussion) Did Roloff founded Enterprises by Reverend
of the church support

A.
or ministry
24
I
New Bethany
in any way?
/.) -.
25
No.
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THELMA ->.
1 2
3
FORD
7/21/97 193
Q.
Have
you all
contributed
or donated
anything
A. Q.
to those?
No.
4 5
6
While what
you were was your
on the mission source
in
Australia, A.
Q.
of support?
Churches. And was there a church that supported you
7
8 9
or
-A. Q. A. Several And what churches. churches ago,

I
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
i
were
those? me to
30 years
and
you expect remember. is a fair so I ask
remer.lber that?
Q.
I
No.
don't
don't
remember
answer, anyway.
but Whose to
sometimes decision South
people was
do remember
it to pick or Asia
Australia
as opposed
America A.
I
for the mission? I'm not a minister. we were to be had in
am not a pastor. called him
But
when
God
to the ministry, but we were And
flexible used
business wanted
people,
flexible that
if God
to use us. came
someone our
to been
to Australia
through the work
church
here
Shreveport,
I
and presented there that
in Australia can speak
23
I
i
because English.
the people So from
in Australia on, God
r>.
...,
24 25
time
led my husband.
led
L_fOllowed
him._Led
hi:_He
.~~lt
t:_:_:_
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 194
1
2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
rebellious kids over God

Q.
wife, there
I said, with
I'm not go~ng but
to take it wasn't
my long
headhunters,
before
changed And what
my mind. church was that you all were
attending A. Road. Q. A.
Q.
in Shreveport? Friendship Baptist Church on Wenderweedle
On what
road? Road. now on Colquitt think it's Road? church.
Wenderweedle Is that I think Yes.
10
church so.
I
11
...,- ....
(
\
A.
Q.
another
12
13
I know Texas, This
where
it is. Road?
Intersection
of Springridge,
A.
and Adams
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
No. Not No.
is in Shreveport. Road?
Q. A.
out Colquitt
(Off-the-record
Q.
discussion) Who is responsible Home? for
(By Mr. members
Bernstein)
hiring
staff
A. Q.
at New Bethany Ford. words, he makes
Brother In other hired? Correct. And
the decision
as
22 23
24
to whose A.
Q.
he makes
a decision
as to who
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25
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FORO
7/21/97 195
Q-
Who at New If
leaves. Bethany they're
Okay. paid? working
And
how
are
staff
2
3
I members
A. school
for
the
school,
the
4
5
pays
them. And If if. they they work
Q.
A. this Home Q. A.
don't in
work just
-the Home area, then
6 7 8 9
pays And
them. are they paid weekly? Monthly?
Monthly. Monthly. Uh-huh, 00 you of the Are yes. know staff was? $400 a month. how much anybody were was paid how much they paid by check?
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24
Q.
A. Q. there, their any
members
paid,
compensation A. Q. A. Q. They're Everybody? Everybody Regardless or -Ten They out of years get
equally. of whether you've been there
10 years A.
or $400
yesterday. a month. a month? tax. tax?

1
Q.
anything A. Q. A.
Do
you-all
hold
that We do
$400
No. You On
pay pay
federal federal
/\
25 the school.
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THELMA
FORD
7/21/97
Q.
For those That
that
-in the school. working in the Home?
2 3 4 5 6
A. Q.
A. Q.
are working
But not anybody No. Do you-all payor
withhold
any other
type
-I
of taxes? A.
Q.
I
I I I
7
8 9
No. On the $400 a month school -- is that or $400 $400 a
month
if you work of --
in the
a month
10 11 12
13
regardless
A.
I
$400
if
Work. So it's school. a month you work if you're working it's
Q. for the $400
And
for the Home,
14
15 16
a month? A.
Q.
Yes. And the

if
you work
for the school, tax?
the
17
18 19
school
pays A. Q.
federal
income
That's
correct. withhold federal income tax $400?
Do you-all $400,
20 21 22
23
from
the
A.
or do you pay
it on top of the $400. that
We pay
it on top of the words,
Q. for the
So in other school, they
the people once
work for
get
a check
a month
24
25
A.
Correct.
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FORD
7/21/97 197
Q. that
And whatever to send that
your
accountant
tells for
you
2
3 4 5 6 7 8
9
you need
to the government check? that_
income
taxes,
you write A. Q. A.
Q.
Yes. And Yes. And
My CPA does that's over
and above
the $400?
that's
only
for people
that
work
in
the
school?
A.
Correct. What kind of financial records or books or
10
11
Q. do you have
at New Bethany? books? No. What It's paper
Is it on a computer
12
r
.~
is it paper A.
Q.
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
book. like or where are they
do they
look
kept? saying should the top
If I needed
I would
to send to take
your
lawyer
something how in
like
a look
at this,
I describe
them
and where
-- would
I say
file
drawer
or the red books help me out with find
or the that?
red
ledgers, A. there. Q.
A.
or can you No.
He couldn't
them,
unless
was
21
22 23 24 25
Where
are they
kept?
In the office. Where in the office? cabinets. -_-SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
Q.
A.
In the filing
L _.
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198
I
I
Q.
A. Q.
A. "
Is
there
more
than
one
filing
cabinet?
2
3 4 5 6 7 8
I I
I I
Yes. Which filing -of -cabinet_are right bound now, they in? now. are they
I wouldn't Is it a set or
I don't or
Q. leaf
ledgers,
I loose
ledgers I'm Okay. not
A.
Q. books?
a bookkeeper. But you just know that they're
9
10 11
A. Q.
how stuff much
They Who the
are. makes the are how entries and what in the go books for as and to
12
checks and that. do
they is
_,
13
like A.
that,
I
much
money
received?
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
(
do
Q.
guardians government to? A. Q.
You ever
that.
Have to New
any
parents any is
or sort of
assigned check
Bethany the child
benefit
that
entitled
Yes. And
One what
or kind
two. of benefit Social to check was that? check.
A.
It was And It boys, There
just was
to
their
Security New
I
I
Q.
A. both Q.
that come
assigned Bethany
Bethany? boy. It
.\
'.
25
I I1.- ,
BAIN
I, was I
New
and
the
I think. were two boys that were getting --
_
&
SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
(3 H~) 429-2160
r -I
..--
FORD
_.- ---_
THELMA
---- _-- - ----- -- _._--. 7/21/97
--
__
--- .. -
--199
I
I
I
A.
Q.
Two different
-- that
boys. getting come Social payable Security to New
2
3
were
checks. Bethany
A.
The
checks
would
4
5 6 7 8 9 10
and the boy? And the boy. what years were those boys
Q. there? A. Q. A.
Q.
Roughly, In the '80s?
'90s?
In '96. In '967 Uh-huh. Are there any minimum educational in the schools? program
11
/ --\,
12
13
14
requirements A. that they

Q.
for the people No. They have
working
an ACE
training
take
themselves. take do. have to pay for that? that at New Bethany?
15
16
Do they Yes, And No. And of? what
A. Q. A.
Q.
they
17
18
do they
19 20 21 22 23
24
I
-,
does
the ACE
training
program
consist A. work
It's
tapes. They
They have
listen
to a tape. like
They the to
on a pace. do, and
to do 12 paces and have tells
students do, Ilike
it explains They
them
what
self-explanatory. the children.
to be given
tests
- .\
"
25
I
BAIN
.
&
.
SHREVEPORT, l...ourSIANA
-_---1
(318) 429-2160
SIMPSON COURT REVORTI:RS
.-----.
------
._-
--_
.. ..
_-
---
THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 200
Q. A. Q. year? A. first come Q. school, their do ACE A. their
And Yes. Are
the
children
are
tested, when
too? come in. the
2 3
They're the
tested
they
children
tested
throughout
4
5
No. in. But they
No.
The
only
one
test
when
they
6 7
8
the
staff to
members take tests
working as
in
the of
have
a part
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23
training? Yes. They have a test at the end of
training. Q. A. Q. And The And They But Yes. Other of the than Fire or Child Protection Office, by has workers have any the and you other health all who grades that of test? school. fail redo on the all the test? of it.
supervisor what have they happens to go
the if
they and work
A.
Q. A. Q. employees had any
back to
continue
staff?
Marshal's
inspections agencies? out and
investigations For instance, kitchen? that. they come out
government unit come A. Q.
checked done do
They've How often
24 25
and
check
the
_kitchen?
._---_.
__ .. --
--
_.
BAIN
& SIMPSON
COURT REPORTERS
(318) 429-2160
__ J
r- ----.-.
I THELMA
I
-_.-FORD
------_.-7/21/97 201
A.
Q.
don't they
know come
how
often
they
came. without
2
3 4 5
But
out periodically
any problem?
A.
Yes. They them
They don't from have coming any trouble -- you-all the
Q. don't kitchen A. they don't

Q.
6 7
B 9
stop or
in and checking
They
don't
do it now. They don't time
don't
know
why
do it now. When
I
do it now. they did that?
10
11
was
the last know.
A.
Q.
don't
12
\
You mentioned you were
earlier working was the
that
in the to get was too
13
early
'70s when that Were
to try
14
15
licensed rigid. licensing that you A. follow.

Q.
the problem there were
licensing parts
any particular too rigid
of the a problem
16 17
18
that
or that
were
reme~ber? I don't remember. I had a book to
19 20 21
22
23
Since at all?
No.
then,
have
you-all
attempted
to be
licensed A.
Q.
Have
you
ever the
had any dealings interstate compact
with on
State
24
25
agencies placement
concerning of children --
or on placement
of juveniles?
___ ..... _J
---8AIN
..
---------_._._._-SHREVEPORT, LoUISIANA
&
SIMPSON COURT REPOR"Jr:RS
(118)429-2160
---_._-------_
....
_-_ ... _-_._-
--- .
THELMA
/
FORD
7/21/97 202
'"
1
A.
No. So no one has the interstate interstate ever called you with regard
2
3
Q. to either children
compact compact
on the placement on the placement
4 5
6
or the
of juveniles?
A.
No. What kind of medical supplies do you-all
7 8
9
Q. keep at New A. tylenol.

Q.
Bethany? Just the normal things -- aspirin,
10
11
Do you-all
keep
any antibiotics
out
12
13
there? A. and Just when I need them, I call Dr. May,
14 15
16
he gives
them
to me when
I tell are
him what the only two.
ampicillian,
Q.
amoxicillin Ampicillin Uh-huh. In other
those
and amoxicillin?
17
18
A.
Q.
words.
You call
him up
and
say,
19 20 21 22
23
I need and you
some
ampicillin
and he writes
a prescription
go pick
it at the drugstore? gives when was know. me a prescription, it. prescription had for? of have and I
A.
He usually it refilled Which
can
have
Q.
I need that
child
24
A.
I
I wouldn't New
I've And
-----
thousands they
25
girls
.
through
--_
...
Bethany .
so -- but
--_._-_ ..BAIN
__ ._--------------
.. -
--(318) 429-2160
&
SHREVEPORT, LolJlSIANA
----_._---
-_ ..
- -_. ---
--.--
-_.
__ _
.
...
----
-_._----
THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 203
1 2 3
I
to be taken gives them

Q.
to the doctor, the medicine. Where do you get
if
they're
sick.
And
he
the prescriptions
4
5
6
filled? A.
Q.
Now, Where
at Walmart. were you getting them filled before

'j
I
7
8
Walmart? A. Bossier.
Q.
Well,
sometimes
we used
Drug
World
in
9
10 11
Going purchased
back,
you
said
that
you
and your
husband Madden. A.
Q.
the nursing relation
home
from Trixi Madden?
12
(
\
Is she any Oh, no. There's are paid

A. Q.
to JoAnn
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22
some
$800
confusion
-- you
and your
husband
a month
by the
school?
Yes. And what We're is the school paying you for?
A. Q. by the
the overseers words,
of the school. you're paid a salary
So in other
school? A. Because the we're the principuls, the
founder, Q.
A.
-- uh-huh. head?
23
24
The Yes. Does
25
Q.
the
school
pay
anybody
rent?
--
..
8AIN
----& SIMPSON
COURT REPORTERS
(318) 429-2160
-----
---------7/21/97
. _._-- -.-.-
._.--------
--_.
---. --204
THELMA
FORD
A. church. Q.
The
school
rents
the
building
from
the
2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Does Yes. Does
the
school
pay
the
church
rent?
A.
Q. Home? A. Q. account? A. Q. A. Q.
it pay
it
to
the
church
or
to
the
To So
the
church. is written out of the school
a check
10 11
To
the
Home
--
to
the
church. account? Uh-huh.
Goes
into
the
church rent. rent?
(\
12
13 14
Uh-huh, How Oh, much
for is
the that
A.
Q. in the
I can't
recall
how is
much
they else
pay. involved
15
16
Besides
yourself, for the
anyone
discipline A. NO. You're
girls?
17
18
Q.
girls? A.
the
only
one
that
disciplines
the
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Yes. And you are the one that would paddle the
Q.
girls? A. Q. four floors
----RAIN
Yes. In the new girls are dorm, the one in tho_at that has
for
500,
there
windows
--------------------------REPORlCRS
._J
I
I
&
SIMPSON COllRT
(318) 4292160
..
-.-
"_
..
__ .._._--_
FORD
..
_- -----_
..
- -----
THELMA
7/21/97
205
1
2 3
building? A.
Q.
No. How many doors are there outside? Doors
4 5
6 7 8 9 10
leading A. Q.
to the outside?
I
wouldn't there
know. any stairs?

1
I
Are Yes.
A.
Q. A.
Q.
Inside Yes.
stairs Outside sets
or outside? and inside. are there? floor.
How many Stairs
of stairs from could
11 12
I \
A. Q. floor one
all the way words,

I
the fourth
In other
get on the ground and that's
'-
13
and walk
up to the to me? And
fourth
floor,
14
15
set of stars A. Yes.
there's
another
set of stairs
16
17
like
that. Q. And so there's two sets of stairs like
18
19
that? A.
Q.
Uh-huh. Are Both they both inside, or one then in and there's out? one
20
21
A. on
on the
inside,
and
22
23
the outside.
Q.
On the one on the outside, floor that lead to the outside
are
the doors
24
25
on each
stair?
A.
'--_ ....
Uh-huh.
.... SHREVEPORT, LolJlSIANA
_ ------&
BArN
_.------' (31R) 429-2160
'THELMA
FORD
7/21/97
206
1 2
Q,
Is
that
a yes? sorry. that or lead not to that outside
A. Q.
stairway, A.
Yes. And are

I
I'm the
3 4
5 6
doors locked
they imagine they
locked? at on night. the inside of
theY're have
locked bar
Q.
that?
Do
a panic
7
8 9
A.
Q. A. know.
Yes. To where of when them you -I
push don't
it,
it will
I
open?
10
11
Some
know.
don't
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
MR. witness A. Q. fire alarm what

I
HODGE: bar
I
Can is?
you
explain
for
the
a panic know.
know. Is In -are there the no, any new not -fire the sort of
(By Mr. in that
Bernstein) building? Yes alarms
A.
alarms building, Q. system? A. Q. there of the were new
Fir~
alarms? Fire
-- yeah. yes. And is
allover
there
any
sort
of
sprinkler
21
22 23
No. No any girls sprinkler permits dorm system. issued by either for Do you know if
24 25
the
construction or local
I
state
L-
----
....
__
. __
.. _.J
BAIN & SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS
SHREVEPORT, LolllSIANA
(318) 4292160
--
----
---- -- --_._-
-----_----------207
_. __
..
THELMA
FORD
7/21/97
government? A. about that.

Q.
I
2
3 4
5
don't
know.
don't
know
anything
How about and
for the building and
that
houses and the
the
gym
the cafeteria
the kitchen
6
7 8 9
school? A. not
I
don't
know
anything
about
that.
That's
my deal.
Q.
The year
church
camp
that
was
going
on in July Workers attended
10
11
ot
last
when
the DSS Child have records
Protection as to who
came that
out,
do you-all camp? No. Do you No.

I
12
/
church A.
Q.
13 14 15
16
have don't
records? have any they pay. husband own any vehicles? any records. of how much they
A.
Q.
Do you have churches don't
records came
17
18
paid
or what A.
Q. A. Q.
from?
They
19
20
Do you or your No. Does Yes. Does personal

Yes.
21
22 23
New
Bethany
own vehicles?
A.
Q.
New
Bethany
provide
you
a vehicle
24
I
for your A.
use?
25
BAIN
&
(318) 429-2160
I THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 208
Q.
So in other store to buy a New
words,
when with
you
go to the personal
2
3 4 5
grocery money,
groceries Bethany
your
you use
A. Q.
vehicle?
Yes. Do you vehicle? No. The church takes care of all that; reimburse New Bethany for the use
of that
A.
7
8 9
not
the Home.
Q.
I have
a few names people. king? King
to ask you Let's see.
if you've John King?
10
11
ever Have
heard you
A.
of these
heard Yes.
of John John
12
(
is the attorney
that
drew
13 14
up
the corporation
Q.
papers. and
'96,
In 1995
was
he affiliated
with
15
16
New
Bethany? A. Q.
A. Q.
No. How about Pat Eades, E-A-D-E-S? at some time. she was
17
18
She was Could there? She left
a worker give
there
19 20 21 22
23
you
me an idea
of when
a worker A. Q. A. a worker, And
in '94, did she
'95. leave?
And why Her
son worked
there,
and he just to have
was
not
"
24
"
so we said,
You're
going too.
to move.
25
so she said,
I'll move
on,
BAIN
& SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS
SHREVEPORT,LoUISIANA
(31 R) 429-2160
--,
-------_.
1- -..-.I THELMA FORD

I
__
7/21/97
_-
._--
-_ _209
Q.
So in other she chose Yes. What was
words,
you with
asked her
her son?
son
to
2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
leave,
and A.
Q. A. Q.
to leave
th~ problem wouldn't Bobby
with
her
son?
He just How
work. Barnes? member years ago.
about
A.
Q.
He used How long
to be a staff ago? know. recall why
A.
Q.
I don't And
No.
10 11 12
do you
he left?
A.
Q.
How about Jule?
somebody
-- first
name
Jule?
13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
Brother A. Q. A.
Q. A. Q.
The Jules? Uh-huh. They And

No.
were
staff
workers when
years they
ago. roughly?
do you recall
left
Or why
No.
they
left?
A.
Q. A. Q. A.
Do you remember
No.
where
they
went?
22
23
24
How
No.
about
Bobby
Barnes?
<,
25
--BAIN
Q.
How about
Patty
Eades? -_
..
__ . ---
.-
----SHREVEPORT, LOUISIAI'A
_--
----'
&
SIMPSON COURT RErOR1CRS
(318) 429-2160
._-
._------FORD
7/21/97
----
---_ ..... 210
THELMA
A_
Huh-uh,
Craig
no. Clark? a staff was know. he left? worker_ worker?
2 3 4
Q. A. Q.
He was
And when I don't And has Yes. And when

I
he a staff
5
6 7 8 9
A. Q. A. Q.
A. Q.
did
he leave? when why he left.
don't
know
10 11 12
13 14
15
Do you know No. Jan Turney? She was And when

In the
he left?
A.
Q-
A. Q. A.
a staff. was she a staff worker?
'90s.
16 17 18 19
Q. Bethany?
A_
And
is she
still
affiliated
with
New
No. Do you know She's Texas_ where she is now? Church in
Q. A.
20 21
22 23 24 25
at Maranatha
Baptist
Denton,
Q.
And No, And
do you recall
I
why
she
left?
A.
Q.
A_
don't. recall when when she she left. left?
do you
I don't
know
IL.....
BAIN
_
&
SIMPSON COURT REPOR1ERS SHREVEPORT, LOL'ISIANA
(318) 429-2160
_._----_
..
__
..
---_---7/21/97
--_._----.----_----211
----:
I
THELMA
FORD
Q. Carter? A. Q. also? A.
Q.
And
how about
Norm
Carter
-- no.
Nora
2
3
4
Is it Nora Nora. Nora
or Norm
Carter?
Carter.
Was
she a staff
worker,
5
6
Yes. And when

I
7 8
was know.
she a staff
I
worker? what the -- and

I
A. years don't
don't
don't
know but
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
was when know

Q.
she worked she's at.
there,
she's
where Doreen
Spangler?
Does
that
name
ring
bell? A.
Q. A. Q.
Huh-uh, Theresa She was
no. Trahan? a student. Celia Romero?
How about She was Gus Gus Mary They
A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A.
Q.
a student.
Littleman? Littleman? Lou Walker? were students. when they were students?
21
22
Do you No.
I
remember have
23 24
no idea. a Reverend Bob Scudder,
Do you know
25
S-C-U-D-D-E-R?
BAIN
&
SIMPSON COURT REPoRTERS
(318) 4292160
--.;'
,-----
.,----,-- - ----,
!
THELMA
FORD
7/21/97 212
A.
Q.
No. Ever No.

~
2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
heard May
I
of a Joy Home? back up a minute?
A.
Q.
Yes, Yes,
ma'am.
I
A.
Q. A.
do know do you
them. know about them? of the
And what
I
just all
know
I
the name,
the name
home.
That's
Q.
know. any opinion of that home or that
You
have
10 11 12
13 14
minister? A. I don't MR. well has temporarily and once talked I have know anything about Okay. so I'd recess him. I think like your the
BERNSTEIN: run dry, discussed, some
to, as deposition that
Counsel because we've
15 16 17
18
we produce about
of the documents there those may
producing, about
be some that we'll
questions I cannot recess
I have ask you
for you about
documents that
now.
And
so with
19 20 21
22 23
--./24
"
the deposition. You'll waive reading and signing of your
deposition? THE WITNESS: Yes. was was excused and the
(The witness deposition
concluded
at 4:1S)
"--
25
----------------------_._-BAIN
-_ .. ------------'
(318) 429-2160
&
_ . z1'"
~ ..

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---'

somebody. to? said, and She

somebody Pick did.

your them. How

Three. Three the children. she Do talked you remember the

children now. MR.

point, through have -point,

objection. in which asking MR.

plaintiffs any questions

(By Mr. the

Yes. Do you remember anything about those

SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

He had a complaint came out. what tell

And don't about was don't know

me the names. I don't know.

any of the names

the boy out,

pick do you I don't Do you

him out, remember remember remember

and when when

talk that that

to the was? was. times

any other have been

Yes. And do you remember when that happened?

In 1988. And do you I don't What remember when in 1988?

know. in 1988? That's when they

Probably come. And

SIMPSON COURT REpORTERS

-_ .._._--- ... _--_ ..

Yes. And do you recall what they wanted?

would this have

is all ground, to go across with regard

I'm going once

the documents about and skip it. over

back. I would about prefer that you of

MR. HODGE: not the ask the witness questions simply

the nature been

point they're any

a court and you

proceeding can go get

important. Mr. Harper mentioned

SIMPSON COURT REpORTERS

(No verbal Do you

response) if one side won or lost

proceed~ngs All I know,

in 19887 I'm still there. I know what

happened? but they left and the said, went

A. rest we're \ home.

-- let me ask you or were And and taken then said,

this: with you Come

In other the State

the parents them? I said,

No. State. the

had an interference child them? here, Make or do your

Do you want to come

and get them. school

and got the

SIMPSON COURT REPORTERS

And by close I didn't Well, who the

Q. argue school agree about was

and boys? girls. only girls there at that time?

"temporarily." A. Q. For Girls

it closed? no idea. New Bethany Home