and Free Culture, Copyleft, RSS2/Atom Feed Controversy

Included in this document is discussion on the wp-hackers mailing list about cross-posting RSS feeds on many websites and the problems it causes for search engines, such as . Also include are letters from a talent recruiter asking if I want interested in working for , to which I denied. It was shortly after I had posted an article critiquing one of their services. These are letters from recruiting:

Hi Braydon, I wanted to introduce myself. My name is and I'm based in our office. I found your information online while conducting a talent search for great engineers that we'd love to see working at ! I was impressed to see that you are active in the Open Source Community! I'd love to speak with hopes of determining if there is a match for your location, experience, and interests. Though I realize you may not be actively searching or considering prospects outside of your current company at the moment, I thought I'd check with you to see if you'd be interested in confidentially exploring opportunities here at . That said, if you can see yourself making a move to in the near future, I'd love to chat with you at your convenience. In the event that you're happily employed, but know of any engineers of your quality who may be on the market, please don't hesitate to pass along my contact information. Let's also be sure to stay in touch should your situation change. I appreciate your time! Best Regards, PS... If you're not interested in receiving emails regarding opportunities, please do let me know and we'll make a note in our system. - Staffing - Engineer Hi Braydon, I hope all's well with you. I wanted to follow up from my previous email. My name is and I'm a recruiter here at . I wanted to reach out and see if the timing might be

right for you to confidentially explore opportunities with us. is currently hiring Site Reliability Engineers for our .com team in a number of locations. If you're open to a conversation, please feel free to contact me at your convenience. If this just isn't the right time for you, please let me know and we can keep in touch based on your availability. I look forward to hearing from you. Best regards,

Hi , Sorry not interested, but thanks for the email. I think someone is pulling a prank on me. I'm guessing you got my contact information through someone I know. This seems like a big joke to me. Please read an article I have posted on my homepage: Thank you, and tell the developers of , , and hello! :) -Braydon These are letters to and from the wp-hackers mailing list:

Braydon ronin at braydon.com Tue Oct 4 01:23:46 UTC 2011 Hello, I have been working on a free software solution to social networking. Many projects are focused on starting from scratch, such as; Freedom Box, StatusNet, Diaspora, and Libre.fm. My approach is different because I am planning on building upon what is currently already at the heart of social media, WordPress, and just fixing one problem --- those pesky share buttons everywhere. I have just completed PHASE 1 of the project, and would like to make this the first public release, which does not include all the required features. In the same way that people will post links of WordPress posts to Social Media websites, the goal of this is to automatically cross-post to a community of websites for promotional purposes and is a distributed method for online marketing campaigns. This will not require a visitor to leave to visit the post, since it is copied verbatim, and does not require users to be either a member of a network or not a member. This will serve as two-way posting making it possible for a dialog between separate websites and community organization. I am terming it "networked media" to be distinguished from "social media". Websites are built in the millions for publishing articles, videos, music and linking these to Social Media websites for promotion. My goal is to build new networked media websites that bring together a community of individuals based upon topics of interest; opening the opportunity

for verticals and topic based networked media websites as opposed to Social Media differentiated by differences of software. That is the goal. This is the future of online marketing. Now, here is what I have made. I have started with a method to define new URLS and templates, and am currently working on the aggregation portion. Here are the links to the resources for the plugin: WordPress Plugin Directory: http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/awe/ SVN: http://plugins.svn.wordpress.org/awe/trunk/ Project Management ( Documentation / Tickets / Git ): http://code.braydon.com/p/awe/ Here are the phases of the project I have been planning: 1. URLS/Templates: * * * * Editing URLS Managing Menus Editing Templates Feed reader for synchronization

2. JavaScript Templates: * JavaScript URL routing * JavaScript Templates * NoScript accessibility 3. Admin Interface: * Unified front-end/back-end interface * JavaScript admin that is extensible 4. Complete WordPress Distribution: * Packaging the plugin as a part of WordPress * Clean API for our JavaScript applications * OpenID for network to network authentication and privacy 5. AWE Plugins: * Write extensions to the core of AWE to add new post types including: video, sound, gallery, events and shop. 6. Web Service: * Dedicated web host for users that don't want to run it on their own hardware. * Sign-up and payment settings. For those that I have previously contacted about URL routing, this is the plugin I was mentioning. I am now looking to work in collaboration because this project can not succeed without the support of a few people working in synchronization. So let's get going!

Sincerely, Braydon Fuller http://braydon.com

Jane Wells jane at automattic.com Tue Oct 4 01:34:45 UTC 2011 On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Jane Wells <jane at automattic.com> wrote: > On 10/3/11 9:23 PM, Braydon wrote: > >> 4. Complete WordPress Distribution: >> >> * Packaging the plugin as a part of WordPress >> > What does that part mean?

Daniel Fenn danielx386 at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 01:36:26 UTC 2011 On 10/3/11 9:23 PM, Braydon wrote: > 4. Complete WordPress Distribution: > > * Packaging the plugin as a part of WordPress What does that part mean? He saying that he want the plugin as part of the wordpress core (Well that how I'm taking it)

Jane Wells jane at automattic.com Tue Oct 4 01:40:03 UTC 2011 On 10/3/11 9:36 PM, Daniel Fenn wrote: > He saying that he want the plugin as part of the wordpress core (Well that > how I'm taking it) > That's how I took it also but assumed I must be mistaken since it's so clearly plugin material and not something we'd do in core.

Daniel Fenn danielx386 at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 01:43:53 UTC 2011 No, it not something that many people want it as a core thing. Also I don't

think it going to be part of the wordpress package like Akismet is. I could be wrong, but for now I'm thinking it won't happen.

Braydon ronin at braydon.com Tue Oct 4 01:39:26 UTC 2011 On 10/03/2011 06:34 PM, Jane Wells wrote: > On 10/3/11 9:23 PM, Braydon wrote: >> 4. Complete WordPress Distribution: >> >> * Packaging the plugin as a part of WordPress > What does that part mean? Having it be a plugin that comes with WordPress, like Akismet, as an alternative distribution to make setup faster and easier. I am planning on using this plugin for all my development going forward, and would like it to be as optimized as possible.

Jane Wells jane at automattic.com Tue Oct 4 01:43:56 UTC 2011 On 10/3/11 9:39 PM, Braydon wrote: > > > > Having it be a plugin that comes with WordPress, like Akismet, as an alternative distribution to make setup faster and easier. I am planning on using this plugin for all my development going forward, and would like it to be as optimized as possible.

I would suggest removing this one from your plan. The core team eventually intends to unbundle Akismet from core and probably shift to more of a "featured" plugin model for functionality that the core team recommends but doesn't think belongs in core itself. As it was discussed at last year's core team meetup, Akismet will stay bundled until such time as we have a more generic antispam plugin that could plug in to any service (not Just Akismet), but in the meantime, we don't want to ship without an anti-spam solution. There are no plans to bundle any additional plugins. J

Brian Layman wp-hackers at thecodecave.com Tue Oct 4 01:46:12 UTC 2011 On 10/3/2011 9:23 PM, Braydon wrote: > > > > > Hello, I have been working on a free software solution to social networking. Many projects are focused on starting from scratch, such as; Freedom Box, StatusNet, Diaspora, and Libre.fm. My approach is different

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

because I am planning on building upon what is currently already at the heart of social media, WordPress, and just fixing one problem --those pesky share buttons everywhere. I have just completed PHASE 1 of the project, and would like to make this the first public release, which does not include all the required features. In the same way that people will post links of WordPress posts to Social Media websites, the goal of this is to automatically cross-post to a community of websites for promotional purposes and is a distributed method for online marketing campaigns. This will not require a visitor to leave to visit the post, since it is copied verbatim, and does not require users to be either a member of a network or not a member. This will serve as two-way posting making it possible for a dialog between separate websites and community organization. I am terming it "networked media" to be distinguished from "social media".

Am I understanding correctly that the point is for you to create a post that is automatically remote posted to X other blogs at the same time X other blogs are automatically posting to your site? -Brian Layman

Braydon ronin at braydon.com Tue Oct 4 01:49:55 UTC 2011 On 10/03/2011 06:46 PM, Brian Layman wrote: > On 10/3/2011 9:23 PM, Braydon wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I have been working on a free software solution to social networking. >> Many projects are focused on starting from scratch, such as; Freedom >> Box, StatusNet, Diaspora, and Libre.fm. My approach is different >> because I am planning on building upon what is currently already at >> the heart of social media, WordPress, and just fixing one problem -->> those pesky share buttons everywhere. I have just completed PHASE 1 >> of the project, and would like to make this the first public release, >> which does not include all the required features. >> >> In the same way that people will post links of WordPress posts to >> Social Media websites, the goal of this is to automatically >> cross-post to a community of websites for promotional purposes and is >> a distributed method for online marketing campaigns. This will not >> require a visitor to leave to visit the post, since it is copied >> verbatim, and does not require users to be either a member of a >> network or not a member. This will serve as two-way posting making it >> possible for a dialog between separate websites and community >> organization. I am terming it "networked media" to be distinguished >> from "social media". >> > > Am I understanding correctly that the point is for you to create a

> post that is automatically remote posted to X other blogs at the same > time X other blogs are automatically posting to your site? Yes, that is the idea. Email is two-way, so this is for two-way blog posting. It would be possible to be an aggregate only.

Jane Wells jane at automattic.com Tue Oct 4 02:09:29 UTC 2011 On 10/3/11 9:49 PM, Braydon wrote: > On 10/03/2011 06:46 PM, Brian Layman wrote: >> Am I understanding correctly that the point is for you to create a >> post that is automatically remote posted to X other blogs at the same >> time X other blogs are automatically posting to your site? > Yes, that is the idea. Email is two-way, so this is for two-way blog > posting. It would be possible to be an aggregate only. So, spam, basically? (I'm just saying what a bunch of people are already thinking, and Mike alluded to re not taking it kindly.)

Braydon ronin at braydon.com Tue Oct 4 02:28:10 UTC 2011 On 10/03/2011 07:09 PM, Jane Wells wrote: > On 10/3/11 9:49 PM, Braydon wrote: >> On 10/03/2011 06:46 PM, Brian Layman wrote: >>> Am I understanding correctly that the point is for you to create a >>> post that is automatically remote posted to X other blogs at the >>> same time X other blogs are automatically posting to your site? >> Yes, that is the idea. Email is two-way, so this is for two-way blog >> posting. It would be possible to be an aggregate only. > So, spam, basically? (I'm just saying what a bunch of people are > already thinking, and Mike alluded to re not taking it kindly.) Not spam, because you'd be able to subscribe/unsubscribe. Same as you can follow on wordpress.com now, but more integrated and in the same flow on your own theme. Somewhat like the interactions with the P2 Theme, but networked between blogs. I've turned indexing off with my experiment locally ( ) because of search engine spamming, and don't mind not having my site indexed. I've also tried not having permanent links for cross-posts (a.l.a.) the live feed bottom right at , which is just an RSS reader.... What I have setup at only copies an excerpt. So non of these are having those issues.

Brian Layman wp-hackers at thecodecave.com Tue Oct 4 02:35:01 UTC 2011

On 10/3/2011 10:28 PM, Braydon wrote: > On 10/03/2011 07:09 PM, Jane Wells wrote: >> On 10/3/11 9:49 PM, Braydon wrote: >>> On 10/03/2011 06:46 PM, Brian Layman wrote: >>>> Am I understanding correctly that the point is for you to create a >>>> post that is automatically remote posted to X other blogs at the >>>> same time X other blogs are automatically posting to your site? >>> Yes, that is the idea. Email is two-way, so this is for two-way blog >>> posting. It would be possible to be an aggregate only. >> So, spam, basically? (I'm just saying what a bunch of people are >> already thinking, and Mike alluded to re not taking it kindly.) > > Not spam, because you'd be able to subscribe/unsubscribe. Same as you > can follow on wordpress.com now, but more integrated and in the same > flow on your own theme. Somewhat like the interactions with the P2 > Theme, but networked between blogs. > > I've turned indexing off with my experiment locally ( > ) because of search engine spamming, and > don't mind not having my site indexed. I've also tried not having > permanent links for cross-posts (a.l.a.) the live feed bottom right at > , which is just an RSS reader.... What I have setup at > only copies an excerpt. So non of these > are having those issues. While your goals may be to create information for communities, I think this plugin would quickly be abused. I'm sure it is something that the URL resellers and domain parkers will absolutely love. It will get content for their sites so they can build some page rank before they bleed someone dry on the sale of the domain. Overdone this would create a bunch of sites that are exactly identical except for the url and maybe theme. So you could create a bunch of entry points to the same content you are selling - "work for from home" sites will love this. A practical use of this might be an ad network whose distributed content never goes away - but if you experienced 's wrath on text link ads, post text ads sure won't be appreciated more. Maybe I'm just seeing the ways this would be abused, or I'm simply not a member of your target audience, but I think you're gonna have some convincing to do to get buy-in from the community at large. -Brian Layman

Mika A Epstein ipstenu at ipstenu.org Tue Oct 4 02:47:42 UTC 2011 On 3 Oct 2011, at 9:35:01PM, Brian Layman wrote:

> On 10/3/2011 10:28 PM, Braydon wrote: >> >> I've turned indexing off with my experiment locally ( ) because of search engine spamming, and don't mind not having my site indexed. I've also tried

not having permanent links for cross-posts (a.l.a.) the live feed bottom right at , which is just an RSS reader.... What I have setup at only copies an excerpt. So non of these are having those issues. > > While your goals may be to create information for communities, I think this plugin would quickly be abused. I'm sure it is something that the URL resellers and domain parkers will absolutely love. It will get content for their sites so they can build some page rank before they bleed someone dry on the sale of the domain. Overdone this would create a bunch of sites that are exactly identical except for the url and maybe theme. So you could create a bunch of entry points to the same content you are selling - "work for from home" sites will love this. A practical use of this might be an ad network whose distributed content never goes away - but if you experienced 's wrath on text link ads, post text ads sure won't be appreciated more. > > Maybe I'm just seeing the ways this would be abused, or I'm simply not a member of your target audience, but I think you're gonna have some convincing to do to get buy-in from the community at large. When you couple abuse with the fact that participation DROPS with auto-generated content (see the 70% drop off reported in Facebook likes for auto-posted links), you've got a very niche audience. I can see using this in an internal network, but I'm not sure that two way posting would be as effective since you'd lose any comments between the sites (and my current buggaboo with sharing content between teams at work has been how to retain comments and edits so you only have ONE place to update the ding dang stuff and not MORE). But with this: > > > > In the same way that people will post links of WordPress posts to Social Media websites, the goal of this is to automatically cross-post to a community of websites for promotional purposes and is a distributed method for online marketing campaigns.

I think your promotion would be better served with quotes and then "This is why, dear my community, this is important to US!" Copying an excerpt is (pretty much always in my experience) the way to go. Then you personalize it. Otherwise you'd kinda invented the robo-call of the blogging world.

Braydon ronin at braydon.com Tue Oct 4 02:59:32 UTC 2011 On 10/03/2011 07:47 PM, Mika A Epstein wrote: > On 3 Oct 2011, at 9:35:01PM, Brian Layman wrote: > >> (...) > When you couple abuse with the fact that participation DROPS with auto-generated content (see the 70% drop off reported in Facebook likes for auto-posted links), you've got a very niche audience. I can see using this in an internal network, but I'm not sure that two way posting would be as effective since you'd lose any comments between the sites (and my current buggaboo with sharing content between teams at work has been how to retain comments and edits so you only have ONE place to update the ding dang stuff and not MORE).

If posts are two-way, the need for comments reduces. Since one post could be in reply to another post. Though details would need to be worked out with this. This would also mean that in order to reply two people would need to be subscribed to each other, and also solving the problem of bots spamming comments. > But with this: > >> In the same way that people will post links of WordPress posts to Social >> Media websites, the goal of this is to automatically cross-post to a >> community of websites for promotional purposes and is a distributed >> method for online marketing campaigns. > I think your promotion would be better served with quotes and then "This is why, dear my community, this is important to US!" Copying an excerpt is (pretty much always in my experience) the way to go. Then you personalize it. Otherwise you'd kinda invented the robo-call of the blogging world. I don't think an excerpt is enough, because then you're required to go to the other post to view it in full, and not function like a feed reader. While it could be a good option, in addition.

Mika A Epstein ipstenu at ipstenu.org > If posts are two-way, the need for comments reduces. Since one post could be in reply to another post. > Though details would need to be worked out with this. This would also mean that in order to reply two > people would need to be subscribed to each other, and also solving the problem of bots spamming comments. Yeah, tis something to think about. There has to be easy handling in a commentless scenario but also common sense allowable as well. >> I think your promotion would be better served with quotes and then "This is why, dear my community, this is important to US!" Copying an excerpt is (pretty much always in my experience) the way to go. Then you personalize it. Otherwise you'd kinda invented the robo-call of the blogging world. > > I don't think an excerpt is enough, because then you're required to go to the other post to view it in full, and not function like a feed reader. While it could be a good option, in addition. And yet... A promotion is to draw the reader to the 'source' right? If Ford wants to slap promotions of my cool car blog, their end goal is more visitors for THEM. My end goal is more readers for me. In the middle we have the work of "I'll link to you and tell people to go visit you, BUT I want them to make a pit stop to learn how super cool I am too!" Quid pro quo, Clarice. Which goes back to the comments issue. In a self-contained network, this isn't a problem (or rather, it's a problem, but far easier to handle). In the wild word, if I'm pulling in content from another site, it has to be beneficial to ME, and comments drive community on your own site. I do know that's not your intended use case (or not one you mentioned) but it's something to think about for elegant

growth.

Braydon ronin at braydon.com Tue Oct 4 03:28:39 UTC 2011 On 10/03/2011 08:09 PM, Mika A Epstein wrote: > (...) >> I don't think an excerpt is enough, because then you're required to go to the other post to view it in full, and not function like a feed reader. While it could be a good option, in addition. > And yet... A promotion is to draw the reader to the 'source' right? If Ford wants to slap promotions of my cool car blog, their end goal is more visitors for THEM. My end goal is more readers for me. In the middle we have the work of "I'll link to you and tell people to go visit you, BUT I want them to make a pit stop to learn how super cool I am too!" Quid pro quo, Clarice. Yes this is the ultimate goal, so the big supporters find their way to back to the source. However bringing lots of traffic isn't the goal, and could actually be a benefit of having bandwidth weight and huge spikes it hits distributed across a network.

Michael Clark dc153464a11bcf5aeb18180db28017fb.wp-hackers at planetmike.com Tue Oct 4 10:46:40 UTC 2011 At 8:28 PM -0700 10/3/11, Braydon wrote: >On 10/03/2011 08:09 PM, Mika A Epstein wrote: >>(...) >>>I don't think an excerpt is enough, because then you're required >>>to go to the other post to view it in full, and not function like >>>a feed reader. While it could be a good option, in addition. >>And yet... A promotion is to draw the reader to the 'source' right? >>If Ford wants to slap promotions of my cool car blog, their end >>goal is more visitors for THEM. My end goal is more readers for >>me. In the middle we have the work of "I'll link to you and tell >>people to go visit you, BUT I want them to make a pit stop to learn >>how super cool I am too!" Quid pro quo, Clarice. >Yes this is the ultimate goal, so the big supporters find their way >to back to the source. However bringing lots of traffic isn't the >goal, and could actually be a benefit of having bandwidth weight and >huge spikes it hits distributed across a network. It sounds like you are trying to recreate some/most of the functionality of trackbacks. Mike -Michael Clark http://www.PlanetMike.com

Christmas Music 24 Hours a Day, 7 Days a week http://www.ChristmasMusic247.com "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King Jr.

Mike Little wordpress at zed1.com Tue Oct 4 02:03:39 UTC 2011 On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 02:23, Braydon <ronin at braydon.com> wrote:

> Here are the phases of the project I have been planning: > > 2. JavaScript Templates: > * JavaScript URL routing > * JavaScript Templates > * NoScript accessibility > > If you do it this way, it is *much* harder. Make it work with plain old semantic html (posh) first, then add the fancy JavaScript interaction on top. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement

Braydon ronin at braydon.com Tue Oct 4 02:11:44 UTC 2011 On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 02:49, Braydon <ronin at braydon.com> wrote: > On 10/03/2011 06:46 PM, Brian Layman wrote: > > Am I understanding correctly that the point is for you to create a post > that is automatically remote posted to X other blogs at the same time X > other blogs are automatically posting to your site? > Yes, that is the idea. Email is two-way, so this is for two-way blog posting. It would be possible to be an aggregate only.

By the way, I think it is unlikely et al will smile benignly on anyone doing automatic content copying across multiple sites!

Mike -Mike Little http://zed1.com/

Braydon ronin at braydon.com Tue Oct 4 02:11:44 UTC 2011 On 10/03/2011 07:03 PM, Mike Little wrote: > (...) > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 02:49, Braydon<ronin at braydon.com> wrote: >> On 10/03/2011 06:46 PM, Brian Layman wrote: >> >> Am I understanding correctly that the point is for you to create a post >> that is automatically remote posted to X other blogs at the same time X >> other blogs are automatically posting to your site? >> > Yes, that is the idea. Email is two-way, so this is for two-way blog > posting. It would be possible to be an aggregate only. > > > By the way, I think it is unlikely et al will smile benignly on > anyone doing automatic content copying across multiple sites! Yes, I've already turned indexing off on my own site I've been experimenting with the idea on ( ) because it was cluttering their results with my cross-posts. That is why I was thinking it would be okay to go with the JavaScript way for faster interactions, though the non-standard/accessible approach.... This might be a reason for an aggregate style exclusive site that wouldn't need search indexing. Though many people, not businesses, are not worried about ranking on search results, and would rather not be for privacy....

sam auciello info at samauciello.com Tue Oct 4 15:13:44 UTC 2011 > By the way, I think it is unlikely et al will smile benignly on > anyone doing automatic content copying across multiple sites! > > I'm confused as to how this affects . Peace ~Sam

Brian Layman wp-hackers at thecodecave.com Tue Oct 4 15:39:13 UTC 2011 On 10/4/2011 11:13 AM, sam auciello wrote: >> By the way, I think it is unlikely et al will smile benignly on >> anyone doing automatic content copying across multiple sites! >>

>> > I'm confused as to how this affects . > > Peace > ~Sam If you have content on your site that is exactly identical to content that is on other sites, will reduce your page rank and you won't often come up in the results because you will be classified as a spam blog (splog). That's why it is important to actively fight splogs that steal your content. Probably the best way to do so is to notify of their existence in webmaster tools to get them removed from the index. Contacting the splogs will have mixed results at best. The concern about this plugin is that it would viewed as sort of gray hat splogging :) because it is voluntary. -Brian Layman

Rich Pedley elfin at elfden.co.uk Tue Oct 4 16:08:27 UTC 2011 not to continue this too much, but why is this even being discussed on the hackers list? Rich

For a complete record of the documents visit: http://lists.automattic.com/pipermail/wp-hackers/2011-October/thread.html#40910