KTR00191

1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA
IN RE: KATRINA CANAL BREACHES CIVIL ACTION

CONSOLIDATED LITIGATION
NO. 05-4182
"K" (2)
PERTAINS TO: MRGO ROBINSON JUDGE DUVAL

NO. 06-2268
MAG. WILKINSON
VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
SCOTT HENRY TAYLOR,
30 Fieldstone Place, Greenville, South
Carolina 29615, taken in the Law Offices of
Joseph M. Bruno, 855 Baronne Street, New
Orleans, Louisiana 70113, on Wednesday,
February 4, 2009.
SCOTT TAYLOR February 4, 2009
2
1 APPEARANCES:
2
3 ANDRY LAW FIRM
4 BY: JONATHAN B. ANDRY, ESQ.
5 610 Baronne Street
6 New Orleans, Louisiana 70113
7 ATTORNEYS FOR THE PLAINTIFFS
8
9 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
10 BY: PETER G. MYER, ESQ.
11 Torts Branch, Civil Division
12 1331 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
13 Room 8095N
14 Washington, D.C. 20004
15 ATTORNEYS FOR UNITED STATES OF
16 AMERICA
17
18
19
20 VIDEO BY: Ken Hart
21 Hart Video of Louisiana
22
23 REPORTED BY: ROGER D. JOHNS, RMR, CRR, CSR
24 Certified Court Reporter,
25 State of Louisiana
JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

3
1 S T I P U L A T I O N
2
3 It is stipulated and agreed by and between
4 counsel for the parties hereto
5 that the deposition of the aforementioned
6 witness is hereby being taken under the
7 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, for all
8 purposes, in accordance with law;
9 That the formality of reading and signing
10 is specifically not waived;
11 That all objections, save those as to the
12 form of the question and the responsiveness of
13 the answer, are hereby reserved until such
14 time as this deposition, or any part thereof,
15 may be used or sought to be used in evidence.
16
17 * * * *
18
19 ROGER D. JOHNS, RDR, CRR Certified Court
20 Reporter, for the State of Louisiana,
21 officiated in administering the oath to the
22 witness.
23
24
25

4
1 I N D E X
2 PAGE
3 Exhibit 1-A............................... 117
4 Exhibit 1-B............................... 125
5 Exhibit 1-C............................... 125
6 1-D....................................... 137
7 Exhibit 1-E............................... 137
8 2-A....................................... 142
9 2-B....................................... 155
10 Exhibit 3-A and Exhibit 3-B............... 161
11 4-A....................................... 168
12 Exhibit 4-B............................... 172
13 Exhibit 4-C............................... 174
14 Exhibit 4-D............................... 176
15 Exhibit 5................................. 185
16
17 Miss Smith's home.......................... 65
18 Mr. Robinson's house....................... 67
19 Franzes's house............................ 69
20 Mr. Lattimore's............................ 70
21 Tanya Smith's home........................ 114
22 Franzes' house............................ 142
23 Robinsons................................. 157
24 Mr. Lattimore............................. 166
25

5
1 VIDEO OPERATOR:
2 This is the videotaped deposition
3 of Scott Taylor. This deposition is
4 being taken In Re: Katrina Canal
5 Breaches Consolidated Litigation,
6 Robinson case. We're at the offices
7 of Bruno and Bruno, located at 855
8 Baronne Street, third floor, in New
9 Orleans, Louisiana.
10 The Court Reporter is Roger
11 Johns. Today's date is February 4th,
12 2009.
13 Would Counsel please introduce
14 themselves.
15 MR. ANDRY:
16 Jonathan Andry on behalf of the
17 Plaintiffs.
18 MR. MYER:
19 And Peter Myer on behalf of the
20 United States of America.
21 VIDEO OPERATOR:
22 Thank you.
23 Would the Court Reporter please
24 swear in the witness.
25 SCOTT HENRY TAYLOR,

6
1 30 Fieldstone Place, Greenville, South
2 Carolina 29615, after having been duly sworn
3 by the before-mentioned court reporter, did
4 testify as follows:
5 EXAMINATION BY MR. MYER:
6 Q. To get started, to identify it
7 again, get your full name on the record.
8 A. Scott Henry Taylor.
9 Q. All right. My name is Pete Myer.
10 We just introduced ourselves. I'm here
11 representing the United States as the
12 Defendant in this lawsuit.
13 Have you been through a deposition
14 like this before?
15 A. Not like this, no.
16 Q. You have been through a deposition?
17 A. I have had depositions.
18 Q. So you understand that they're going
19 to transcribe what we say, there will be a
20 video record of it and, therefore, we
21 shouldn't talk over each other. I'll let you
22 finish your answers if you will let me finish
23 my questions.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And I was just going to say, even
7
1 though we're videoed, there may be times when
2 we want to use the transcript of this, so
3 it'll help our Court Reporter a whole lot if
4 you give verbal answers and not just a nod or
5 a shake of the head.
6 A. I understand.
7 Q. All right. And any reason that we
8 should do this another time? You got enough
9 sleep last night, not on any medications?
10 A. I'm prepared.
11 Q. All right.
12 MR. ANDRY:
13 Let me tell you, the TV camera is
14 very often -- and very often in
15 depositions you'll have a tendency to
16 talk to him because he's asking you
17 the questions. But try and talk to
18 the TV camera as much as possible
19 because it's a video deposition.
20 THE WITNESS:
21 All right.
23 Q. It's particularly difficult with the
24 camera way down there. I think we were
25 expecting more people than showed up.
8
1 A. All right.
2 Q. Did you see the Notice of Deposition
3 that asked you to be here, or the parties
4 exchanged to arrange this?
5 A. I did not see that notice, but I was
6 -- I was made aware of it.
7 Q. All right. There were requests in
8 the notice for materials considered, relied
9 on, or any updates to your reports or
10 documents regarding any work that you have
11 performed. Do you have anything with you
12 other than the updated reports we have been
13 provided?
14 A. Nothing new other than the updated
15 reports.
16 Q. Okay. Are there materials that you
17 reviewed in preparation for the deposition
18 today?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What would those be?
21 A. Additional photos, additional
22 statements from Plaintiffs, and other
23 documentation of expenses, those kinds of
24 things.
25 Q. We'll make a request for whatever
9
1 you reviewed.
2 MR. ANDRY:
3 I'll tell you, what happened, and
4 -- we had him look at, like I told
5 you, the updated reports in order to
6 get actual numbers, look at the
7 receipts and information which was
8 provided by the Plaintiffs at their
9 depositions. I can have somebody
10 bring that down here so that you can
11 look at it and you could ask him
12 questions about it.
13 MR. MYER:
14 But it's nothing beyond their
15 depositions?
16 MR. ANDRY:
17 No.
18 MR. MYER:
19 And the exhibits to their
20 depositions.
21 MR. ANDRY:
22 No. I mean, I think he's had
23 conversations with the Plaintiffs so
24 you could ask him about those. But as
25 far as documents and -- That's all of
10
1 the stuff. That was produced by the
2 Plaintiffs at their deposition. And
3 it was the photographs produced, the
4 receipts produced, and the information
5 that they produced at their
6 deposition.
7 MR. MYER:
8 I don't recall any photographs at
9 their depositions. Did they have --
10 MR. ANDRY:
11 There were -- I'll have them
12 bring them down and you can look at
13 them.
14 MR. MYER:
15 Okay.
17 Q. Just for the record, also, when
18 we've completed the deposition, you have the
19 right to get a copy of the transcript, read
20 it, sign it, and verify its accuracy. You
21 know, I won't require -- You can waive that
22 also, but just to advise you that you have
23 that right.
24 MR. ANDRY:
25 We'll read and sign. Makes it
11
1 easier.
2 MR. MYER:
3 All right.
4 THE WITNESS:
5 Okay.
6 MR. MYER:
7 I will want a copy of his C.V.
8 when we can get it.
9 MR. ANDRY:
10 Okay.
11 MR. MYER:
12 I'll just go through this stuff
13 today and then we'll sort of
14 reconstruct it here in the
15 deposition.
17 Q. I take it over the last couple of
18 days you've had a chance to meet with Mr.
19 Andry and talk about what's going to go on
20 today?
21 A. Yes, I have.
22 Q. Okay. You're from North Carolina?
23 A. South Carolina.
24 Q. South Carolina. One of the
25 Carolinas.
12
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And how long have you been in town?
3 A. Just two days now.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. Just a couple of days.
6 Q. Okay. And you flew in to meet with
7 Mr. Andry and attend this?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. Okay. How long did you meet with
10 Mr. Andry?
11 A. Oh, a couple of hours.
12 Q. That would have been yesterday?
13 A. Yesterday, yes.
14 Q. All right. Could we get your
15 business address and telephone number?
16 A. The business address, I have a home
17 office, but our corporate office is at 203
18 West Eighth Street, Amarillo, Texas. And
19 that's the firm that I am managing claims for
20 now.
21 Q. Okay. But you're in South Carolina?
22 A. Right. But the corporate office is
23 there. I have satellite offices. We're
24 opening one in Tampa, Florida. I have got one
25 on -- on Cedar Lane in Greenville as well,

13
1 which is a different address than my home
2 address.
3 Q. What is the corporation? What's the
4 name of the corporation?
5 A. It's Advanced Adjusting. It's an
6 insurance adjusting firm whereby we assess
7 damages and write estimates, and it's the very
8 same thing that I did on behalf of the
9 Plaintiffs.
10 Q. What's your relationship to the
11 corporation?
12 A. I am one of the managers. I manage
13 the southeast region for them. Everything
14 from -- from the Carolinas upwards of -- even
15 into Virginia and then down the coast and all
16 the way over to Louisiana.
17 Q. Okay. I note the reports that were
18 submitted a year ago now, over a year ago now
19 -- well, not quite a year ago, were from
20 Scott Taylor Adjusting Services. Is that --
21 A. Right. I'm doing it independently
22 as a consultant basically.
23 Q. All right.
24 A. So I am not doing it in the
25 strictest capacity of my -- of my full time

14
1 job. But it's the same venue basically.
2 Q. Okay. So when -- The firm from
3 Amarillo, that would be your normal job and
4 then you are not on their payroll in any way
5 in consulting in this lawsuit?
6 A. Not at all.
7 Q. Okay. I take it you are a U. S.
8 citizen?
9 A. Yes, I am.
10 Q. Okay. Born here and not natural- --
11 A. Yes, I was born in Orlando, Florida.
12 Q. Okay. You said you'd never been
13 deposed like this before. But have you ever
14 been deposed before?
15 A. In a -- It was a -- What did we call
16 that. A -- There was a dispute on a credit
17 issue and I went -- actually, I requested the
18 deposition and went in and the other party
19 never showed up so we didn't have it. So
20 that's my extent of experience.
21 Q. Okay. Was there a lawsuit ever
22 filed?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Okay. Where did this happen?
25 A. In South Carolina.

15
1 Q. Okay. And what brought about a
2 deposition if it wasn't a lawsuit?
3 A. They -- They had filed a motion to
4 -- I don't know. I don't even know what
5 they're called, because I am not a lawyer.
6 But I got some papers about a debt that wasn't
7 mine and they were wanting to pursue it and I
8 -- and I was told if I pushed the issue back
9 at them, that they would probably go away, and
10 pretty much they did.
11 Q. Okay.
12 MR. ANDRY:
13 Was this like a credit reporting
14 agency, a credit agency where you went
15 in to give a statement? I want to
16 make sure you're not confusing
17 statement with giving a deposition.
19 Q. Right.
20 A. It may have -- It may have been
21 that. It could have been. You know, this --
22 I am not sure if it was that or an actual
23 deposition. I know that we had to have a
24 place to go do it and, you know, we went in to
25 do that and they never showed up.

16
1 Q. Another annoying day with lawyers
2 and a Court Reporter in a room, huh?
3 A. Right. I had a Court Reporter
4 there, you know.
5 Q. Have you ever testified -- Have you
6 ever testified in any other lawsuit?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Have you ever given any kind of
9 sworn testimony of any sort other than that
10 one?
11 A. I have been in -- I have been a
12 witness in a criminal trial back in '81, maybe
13 '80, something. '79, '80, '81.
14 Q. What brought that about?
15 A. A friend of mine was murdered when I
16 was in college and --
17 Q. Who?
18 A. And I just had information about his
19 background and that kind of thing. So I was
20 being interviewed. I was subpoenaed for that.
21 Q. Did they catch the murderer?
22 A. Oh, yeah. They did.
23 Q. And you actually testified at the
24 trial of the murderer?
25 A. I did. I did.

17
1 Q. When?
2 A. It was basically the -- It was
3 literally the defense that had subpoenaed me
4 because they thought that I could provide the
5 scoop, all the dirty laundry on the victim and
6 -- and make it look like he deserved it.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. So that's basically what they tried
9 to do, and that didn't last long on the stand,
10 because the Judge didn't like that.
11 Q. That was back in the '80s?
12 A. Yeah. Probably '8- -- probably
13 '80. 1980. May have been in '79. I'm not
14 sure.
15 Q. When was the incident where the
16 credit dispute that you had, that --
17 A. That would have been in 2004 maybe,
18 '5. 2005.
19 Q. Four or five years ago?
20 A. Yeah. Something like that.
21 Q. Okay. You ever brought a lawsuit?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Any company that you have been
24 involved with, have you been involved in any
25 lawsuit for the adjusting company or --
18
1 A. No, not at all.
2 Q. Have you ever been sued?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Have you ever arrested?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. Were you ever previously
7 employed by Mr. Robinson, the Franzes, Mr.
8 Lattimore, or Miss Smith?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Have you ever previously been
11 employed by any Counsel for -- where any of
12 the attorneys were a Counsel in this?
13 A. I have consulted in the past on
14 other things.
15 Q. With whom?
16 A. With Scott -- What was his --
17 MR. ANDRY:
18 Scott Joanen.
19 THE WITNESS:
20 At Bruno and Bruno. On another
21 matter altogether different.
23 Q. When would that have been?
24 A. Just a few months ago.
25 Q. Okay. Just the same sort of thing?
19
1 A. Yes. I think I was registered as a
2 -- as an expert witness, or as an expert in
3 the field that they were going to rely on for
4 a variety of things, and there was some --
5 there was a small property issue that they
6 wanted to ask me about.
7 Q. Do you expect to testify in that
8 lawsuit?
9 A. No. I believe that they settled
10 that out of court. I don't think it went
11 forward.
12 Q. Were you previously employed by the
13 United States or any other government?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Were you ever in the military?
16 A. Not directly.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. I was raised as a military kid.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. Felt like I put my time in doing
21 that.
22 Q. But you never enlisted or --
23 A. No.
24 Q. -- were drafted or anything?
25 Ever previously employed by a
20
1 Plaintiff in any civil lawsuit?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Okay. How about a Defendant?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Your current employment is with the
6 firm from Amarillo. Do you own any interest
7 in that company?
8 A. No.
9 Q. How long have you been employed
10 there?
11 A. About 14 months.
12 Q. How about before then?
13 A. Before that I was consulting with a
14 variety of insurance carriers on claims
15 issues, and I teach -- I teach a course in
16 adjusting that many of them use to qualify
17 their adjustors to be able to do what -- what
18 we're doing today.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. Well, not the deposition
21 necessarily, but presenting the information.
22 Q. Okay. Well, I'll flip it over and
23 start sort of from the beginning. Where did
24 you go to school?
25 A. I went to college at Hardin-Simmons

21
1 University in Abilene, Texas.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. Completed a Bachelor's of music
4 there, and I have a Master's of Divinity from
5 Southeastern Theological Seminary.
6 Q. You're a Texan boy?
7 A. Yeah. Originally. Well, sort of.
8 I'm a military kid. So I'm -- wherever I put
9 my -- lay my hat, that's where I am from.
10 Q. Okay. When would it have been that
11 you were at Hardin-Simmons?
12 A. In '78. I took the six year course
13 in getting my degree. Worked my way through
14 and finally got done.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. In '84.
17 Q. Okay. So '78 to '84 you were in it?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And the divinity degree was
20 thereafter?
21 A. No, I went into the ministry field
22 for 20 years, and during that time is when I
23 became necessarily adept at everything from
24 construction to estimating to that kind of
25 thing in order to supplement funds, and so I

22
1 became rather proficient at all of that during
2 those 20 years. And then after -- after I
3 retired from the ministry, I just began to do
4 nothing but insurance work full time after
5 that.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. And adjusting.
8 Q. Is it the case that sort of worked
9 your way -- did you work in construction while
10 you were going to school?
11 A. Oh, yes. All the time. I had to,
12 again, supplement myself so I basically became
13 my own contractor and began to do remodels and
14 large scale roofing projects and that kind of
15 thing.
16 Q. Where was this?
17 A. All over. All over the country
18 really. Because wherever we were in ministry,
19 that's where I worked. You know, so it was a
20 matter of just being in a position where we
21 needed -- always needed some extra funds
22 because the ministry is not a highly paid
23 field usually. And so, you know, it just took
24 a little extra. And so it was -- You know, I
25 was in -- everywhere from South Carolina to

23
1 Texas to Arkansas, North Carolina.
2 Q. Any specific towns or localities
3 that you would have done the work in?
4 A. I did work in Rocky Mountain, North
5 Carolina. Seneca, South Carolina.
6 Greenville, South Carolina. Rogers,
7 Arkansas. I have worked in Dallas and
8 Arlington, Texas. Just anywhere we lived,
9 there's always -- always contracting work
10 that's needed.
11 Q. How about New Orleans?
12 A. No, never did any repairs in New
13 Orleans.
14 Q. Any particular denomination that you
15 were in the ministry with?
16 A. I was in the Southern Baptist
17 ministry.
18 Q. You still ordained as a minister?
19 A. Oh, yeah.
20 Q. You mentioned graduate work at some
21 point.
22 A. Yeah. A Master of Divinity at
23 Southeastern Baptist Theology Seminary.
24 Q. When would that have been?
25 A. That was in -- starting in '95. I

24
1 finished in '99.
2 Q. Where is Southeastern?
3 A. It's in Wake Forest, North Carolina.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. It's on the campus, the old campus
6 of Wake Forest University. They bought it in
7 1958 and converted it to the seminary at that
8 point, and Wake Forest actually moved to
9 Winston-Salem.
10 Q. I never knew that.
11 MR. ANDRY:
12 The Demon Deacons.
13 MR. MYER:
14 That's right. Well, not any
15 more. It's a very different campus
16 now.
18 Q. You mentioned that you did the --
19 worked in construction and sort of school of
20 hard knocks, pardon the pun I guess on that
21 one.
22 A. Uh-huh (affirmatively).
23 Q. Any technical training, or was it
24 all on-the-job experience?
25 A. All of the experience was on the job

25
1 until I began to investigate insurance
2 adjusting. And then -- then I had technical
3 training that supplemented what I already
4 knew. You know, to the extent that I had to
5 be licensed in several places and get
6 credentials and have certificates of training
7 in various disciplines. So I did have to get
8 a good bit of supplemental training just to --
9 just to be technically qualified.
10 Q. Where did that training come from?
11 A. I used -- I used a practical
12 adjusting course that was taught by an old
13 school adjustor out of Dallas and he has a --
14 he has a week-long course that he teaches.
15 George -- I can't even remember his last name
16 now. But he has an adjusting school and he
17 takes 12 students at a time and just buries
18 them in -- in technical information on how
19 they're supposed to go about doing their job.
20 Then I was licensed with licensing out of
21 Texas and Florida and South Carolina as well.
22 I've had technical training and things like
23 earthquake -- earthquake analysis as far as
24 adjusting is concerned and structural things
25 that are associated with earthquakes. I have

26
1 done flood training. I have done -- with NFIP
2 I have done workshops along those lines. I've
3 had Haag Engineering roofing workshops where
4 you get all the technical ins and outs on roof
5 damages and causes and effects. I've had a
6 series of seminars and workshops on things
7 like tidal search and wind versus surge and,
8 you know, the engineering that goes behind
9 that. The engineering of tile. That
10 describes how tiles are formed and which ones
11 are more porous than others and which ones
12 will sustain water damage better than others
13 and that kind of thing.
14 Q. It sounds like the course with the
15 adjustor was actual classroom course.
16 A. It was.
17 Q. In Dallas?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. When did you take that?
20 A. That would have -- That course was
21 -- I didn't take that until 19- -- 2005. So,
22 you know, --
23 Q. Would that have been sort of the
24 break point when you decided to get into
25 adjusting and move from just working in
27
1 construction into the adjusting field?
2 A. Well, no, not really. Probably in
3 about -- in the mid -- around '98, '99 I began
4 to just basically write the estimates and
5 contract and take care of that for others to
6 do the work. Because I was -- I had since
7 graduated from seminary, especially, I became
8 more involved in larger churches that demanded
9 much more of my time. The need for me to be
10 physically in the field was -- it just wasn't
11 practical. And so I did a lot of the -- just
12 the contracting and estimate writing and that
13 kind of thing from that point on. So -- But
14 to make it only insurance work, that didn't
15 happen until 2005.
16 Q. And just to clarify, the
17 construction work that you were doing and then
18 the contract writing wasn't just on churches?
19 A. Oh, no, no, no, no. No, these are
20 private homes mostly. Residential situations.
21 Q. So when you talk about the church,
22 that was your ministry?
23 A. That was the ministry. That was the
24 work I had to do to -- You know, my basic --
25 basic job was that and absorbed most of my

28
1 time.
2 Q. Okay. And because that began
3 absorbing more of your time in the mid '90s,
4 you went from actually on the job wielding a
5 hammer construction work to more contract
6 writing and construction management?
7 A. Right.
8 Q. Then it was in the -- around 2004
9 that you decided to take a step further and go
10 into adjusting and attended the classes in
11 Dallas?
12 A. Right. In 2005 I actually made the
13 class.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. Just because we had to have some
16 kind of credentials at that point in the
17 insurance world that was more than just
18 contracting, more than just estimating, but
19 real insurance understanding.
20 Q. Okay. And then the other seminars
21 and workshops that you mentioned would have
22 been since 2005?
23 A. Right. Almost all of that since --
24 since 2005. As a matter of just furthering
25 education and continuing education credit,

29
1 those kinds of things.
2 Q. Right. What training, if any, do
3 you have in civil engineering?
4 A. None.
5 Q. Any experience in civil
6 engineering?
7 A. I know basically what it is.
8 Q. Okay. How about soil mechanics?
9 A. No. I've hired people to be experts
10 on those issues so that I didn't have to worry
11 about it.
12 Q. Right. But you're not qualified --
13 but are you in any way qualified to address
14 any topic in soil mechanics or civil
15 engineering?
16 A. Not technically, no.
17 Q. Okay. Hydrology?
18 A. No.
19 Q. How about surveying?
20 A. No. Not -- Again, not technically.
21 I mean, as a matter of course, we do -- we do
22 some pretty elaborate measurements and things
23 on the site, but there's no -- there's no
24 certification on surveys by any means.
25 Q. Okay. If we had the proper
30
1 equipment here, could you measure elevations
2 and plot topography for us?
3 A. Not with surveying equipment, no.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. That's not generally what we do in
6 the field at all.
7 Q. Okay. How about personal property
8 evaluation; you ever have any experience with
9 an auction house or a pawn shop or anybody
10 that would evaluate personal property?
11 A. Well, we do that as a matter of what
12 we do on a day in, day out basis in insurance
13 work. Part of every policy, or almost every
14 policy is personal property coverage, which
15 means that as an adjustor, you're not just
16 assessing the physical damages of a property
17 as if you were going to write an estimate to
18 fix it. You are also considering what's
19 covered in the policy, which would include
20 personal property, and that means that you
21 have to do a lot of research to be able to
22 verify things like pricing and -- pricing
23 norms and be able to spot things that are out
24 of norm and be able to evaluate it for actual
25 cash value versus the replacement cost value,

31
1 and make the differences and determine the
2 differences and document them.
3 Q. So that is part of your training?
4 A. Oh, yes.
5 Q. Part of what you studied in Dallas?
6 A. Part of the training and part of
7 daily work.
8 Q. And I've got to ask, how about law?
9 Any -- Have you ever studied law or --
10 A. No, not to the extent of any kind of
11 formal education in it. The only thing that
12 we do as adjustors, again, you have to
13 maintain an understanding of insurance policy
14 in law, enough so that you keep both yourself
15 and your carrier and your homeowner out of
16 trouble in legal matters, so that you're
17 handling it correctly and not putting somebody
18 in a bind.
19 Q. So you want to understand the legal
20 implications of the contracts that you write?
21 A. Exactly. Well, I wouldn't write a
22 contract per se. But just estimates and
23 damages.
24 Q. All right. You mentioned that you
25 have a license in adjusting?
32
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. In fact, more than one; in several
3 jurisdictions you have it?
4 A. Right. Right.
5 Q. What licenses do you hold?
6 A. The only current one that I am using
7 right now is in Florida because my main
8 territory that I work in is in Florida. The
9 other ones that I have acquired that would
10 need renewing at this point if I were to
11 actually do adjusting in those states would be
12 either South Carolina, Texas, and Louisiana.
13 Q. So you have been licensed in
14 Louisiana before?
15 A. No. Because Louisiana, until about
16 a year or so ago, didn't have a licensing
17 program for adjustors. And I haven't written
18 any estimates that were for an insurance
19 company since they started the licensing
20 program. And so I, you know, I had no need to
21 physically be licensed at the time in
22 Louisiana. However, because of the nature of
23 what we are doing in things like this and the
24 potential for that to be an issue, I have
25 already looked into getting the credentials,

33
1 and it's a matter of reciprocity because
2 there's nothing required of the State in
3 Louisiana -- I have looked into it -- other
4 than just submitting documentation from where
5 you are licensed in order to get that license.
6 Q. And in Texas and South Carolina, is
7 it just a matter of your license has expired
8 and you need to renew them?
9 A. Well, if -- the thing about it is I
10 have taken a management position with the
11 company now to the extent that I am not in the
12 field doing a whole lot of estimating. I am
13 more reviewing the estimates and correcting
14 them and making sure that they're right. But
15 the responsibility lies on the one that
16 produces it, produces the estimate. So,
17 therefore, the license is required by the one
18 that produces it.
19 Q. But there is some periodicity and
20 you need to renew them at some period?
21 A. Right. The other thing about it is
22 if a license expires, then you need to be
23 retested in that, and that's just good
24 practice, to go in and take the test again.
25 And because it requires some extra effort, the

34
1 extra effort isn't worth my time until it's
2 necessary.
3 Q. Absolutely. But what I am getting
4 at, it's not a lifetime license?
5 A. Oh, no, not by any means.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. They all -- And one of the reasons
8 is because things change on insurance policy
9 and law. They change on a number of issues,
10 and techniques for adjusting change, and so
11 all the things that they require in continuing
12 education need updating. But by maintaining
13 one of the stricter licenses, which is in
14 Florida, you basically are covering almost all
15 of the bases. There aren't many licenses --
16 There's only a few states that don't recognize
17 Florida as a valid --
18 Q. Reciprocal?
19 A. -- as a reciprocal licensing state.
20 Q. You mentioned again about law. What
21 course work would your adjusting training and
22 licensing require in law?
23 A. It's not technically law. It's just
24 adjustor -- any statutes that have been
25 established in the last -- in the last period

35
1 since your last CE courses, you know, they
2 update -- they update things in the state.
3 Any time the legislature rules on things that
4 affect the insurance policy, they update the
5 CE programs for the licensing so that you can
6 stay abreast of changes and just be aware. If
7 they have, for example, a depreciation issue
8 in Florida that came up after Wilma, they
9 decided, the state decided that there would be
10 no more depreciation, recoverable depreciation
11 taken on estimates, which was a huge issue.
12 And it changed the way that people wrote
13 estimates tremendously. To the extent that
14 the insurance carriers were no longer allowed
15 to withhold part of the money until such time
16 as the repairs to a home had been -- had been
17 done. In other words, they -- if it was an
18 RCV replacement cost policy, they now had to
19 give the entire amount to the homeowner up
20 front and could not hold some back against the
21 chance that the money would be pocketed and
22 not -- and not have repairs completed, which
23 is the purpose behind recoverable holdback or
24 recoverable depreciation. But that's been
25 outlawed in Florida and it just changed

36
1 everything. It changed underwriting, it
2 changed a number of things. So, you know,
3 that's just one example.
4 Q. Sure.
5 A. But there's several that come along,
6 you know.
7 Q. When you said "CE", that's
8 continuing education?
9 A. Continuing education, yes.
10 Q. And these updates in the CE and
11 stuff, it sounds to me, and don't let me put
12 words in your mouth, but see if we can agree,
13 that it's mostly about state or Federal
14 regulations of the industry. And would you
15 ever have like case cites and court precedents
16 that you would talk about, about how damages
17 would be calculated in lawsuits or --
18 A. They do at times.
19 Q. They do?
20 A. You know, some of the examples, they
21 use -- they site examples at times when
22 they're presenting the law and how it affected
23 a particular case and that kind of thing. So
24 there are times when it's cited, you know, as
25 case law and how it affected something in its

37
1 outcome.
2 Q. Any specialties available within --
3 a real estate license or -- I mean, an
4 adjusting license or --
5 A. Well, there are certain
6 certifications that are recognized as making
7 you a little more marketable in the field.
8 One of those would be the NFIP certification,
9 which is a flood program, which has to be
10 updated every year. And once you have got
11 that, then you kind of have reached a second
12 level or so. Earthquake certification is
13 another one. More important in California
14 than most anywhere else. But -- So there's --
15 there's those. There are -- There are
16 professional designations that you can
17 actually get degrees in for insurance
18 adjusting that -- that, you know, take a
19 considerable amount of time and really focuses
20 on law at that point only. It really gets
21 into the law, insurance law.
22 Q. NFIP stands for?
23 A. National Flood Insurance Program.
24 Q. You have that certification?
25 A. Yes.

38
1 Q. And you got -- I take it you have
2 the earthquake. You told us you went to some
3 earthquake workshops.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Any others that you have?
6 A. Nothing that is noteworthy. No.
7 There's a lot of -- a lot of things I don't --
8 in my background that, you know, would point
9 to my ability to do the job pretty well, but
10 not -- nothing that is a recognized industry
11 standard.
12 Q. Okay. Any professional associations
13 that you belong to?
14 A. No, not at the time.
15 Q. Okay. You mentioned something about
16 teaching.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Can you describe that for us?
19 A. After -- After beginning to work in
20 the field a good bit and needing to do some
21 relicensing, there was a CE organization that
22 does nothing but prepare CE courses that
23 solicited me to develop a course for them to
24 teach adjustors the practical ins and outs of
25 adjusting, everything from scoping techniques

39
1 to preparing estimates to the claims process,
2 to efficiency models, to a lot of things, to
3 rules of the adjustor and the dynamics between
4 the adjustor and homeowners and carriers and
5 a variety of things. I agreed to that,
6 produced a four and a half, five day course
7 that had about 40 hours of classroom time in
8 it that ranged from everything that I said to
9 teaching -- reteaching the mathematics of
10 measurements and geometry so that, you know,
11 accuracy is not in question. And then we
12 followed that up with a two day course in the
13 estimating program that is most accepted by --
14 by all the carriers. And it's a rather
15 sophisticated program that takes some real
16 methodical approach to do it well, and we
17 developed a process in which you could
18 probably increase your efficiency by five or
19 six hundred percent in just a couple of days.
20 So that course was very popular, even with the
21 seasoned adjustors, the ones that had been
22 around for 20 years or more needed to know how
23 to use this new stuff. You know, and the
24 other thing we found out is -- is as I
25 discussed earlier, that the training that we

40
1 had had originally involved a seasoned
2 adjustor training us using older methods that
3 did not involve technology much at all. To
4 the -- To the extent that I found everything
5 valuable in the course that he taught, but
6 very lacking in technology. And having been
7 involved pretty regularly for over 20 years in
8 whatever technological advances there are
9 because of ministry, just using that
10 constantly, I was pretty adept at using
11 computers and that kind of thing and was able
12 to construct some models that worked for
13 instructional purposes and created a --
14 created a multimedia program that taught the
15 entire thing as well as lecture time and
16 hands-on training and modeling and onsite
17 training as well where we would solicit
18 contractors to allow us to take -- take time
19 in their projects to test the abilities of the
20 trainees to adapt to the circumstances. So we
21 have a pretty comprehensive course, and that
22 was developed in 2006. Then in -- And it's
23 been taught ever since then. I rewrote it
24 again once I started working with this firm
25 that I am with now, Advanced Adjusting, and it

41
1 became a little bit more widely taught at that
2 point because it was needed a lot more. And
3 in my capacity as a claims manager and as an
4 adjusting -- adjustor coordinator, I had the
5 need to make sure that our adjustors were
6 proficient. So that was one way of
7 demonstrating their proficiency. If they
8 could complete the course successfully, that
9 was one measure of their ability. And so we
10 -- I have done that for the last two years
11 now, and we have five classes that are
12 scheduled in -- all over the country this
13 spring.
14 Q. Do you teach it or you say it's
15 being taught?
16 A. I do teach.
17 Q. Are there others who teach it also?
18 A. I have an assistant now that is
19 prepared this spring to jump in and substitute
20 for me that works with me full time.
21 Q. This sounds time consuming. Is it
22 becoming your job to teach the course?
23 A. Well, no, not necessarily. It's
24 just part of what I do. Because I am managing
25 the southeast region, my job is to improve the

42
1 quality of the adjustors and to improve the --
2 not only the quality, but the volume of our
3 adjustors so that we're more attractive to
4 insurance carriers.
5 Q. Now, is this taught within Advanced
6 Adjusting or industry-wide?
7 A. It's an industry-wide thing in that
8 we present it, and it's -- it's somewhat of a
9 feather in our cap because an adjusting firm
10 normally doesn't have a school of adjusting
11 that goes alongside of it. Some of them do.
12 The ones that are more respected often do. So
13 it's something that we felt was necessary.
14 Since I already had a course that I had
15 prepared at one point, it was a simple matter
16 to redeploy it for the company.
17 Q. It's taught under the auspices of
18 Advanced Adjusting?
19 A. It is at this point, yes.
20 Q. But people from outside Advanced
21 Adjusting can attend?
22 A. One of the things that we have used
23 in marketing is a carrier comp program where
24 we would invite a carrier to send one of their
25 staff adjustors to our course to -- as a --

43
1 and comp them in that so they could see how we
2 teach and what kind of things we teach our
3 adjustors and then they could go back and not
4 only report, but sit down with us and discuss
5 what they thought of it and work it out with
6 claims managers; perhaps they would like us to
7 do a certification course just for their
8 company. And it opens the door to that kind
9 of dialogue. So we have trained -- I know
10 that there's been three carriers now that have
11 sent their entire adjusting staff through our
12 school.
13 Q. You mentioned one of the purposes of
14 the course was to update training with regard
15 to newer technologies.
17 Q. What sort of technologies are we
18 talking about?
19 A. Well, for example, Xactimate is the
20 name of the program by which these were
21 produced (indicating). Using technology, you
22 can do something in a much higher quality,
23 with a much higher quality result in a
24 fraction of the time that you could do if you
25 didn't have that technology. It uses vector

44
1 graphics in sketch; it does a lot of things
2 that allow you to dimension things accurately
3 through the computer. It's -- It's -- It's
4 almost a junior architectural program when it
5 comes to the sketching abilities. It can
6 actually give you dimensions in volumes and
7 square footages and linear measurements done
8 automatically by the way you use the scopes.
9 So you couple your in field work that you use
10 pen and paper with with the technology and you
11 can reduce your time and mistakes by a vast
12 amount if you're using the technology right.
13 That's a short way of saying it, but it -- The
14 reason that we teach the way we do is that we
15 start with the practical stuff that is all
16 nuts and bolts and finish the course at the
17 end of the four days, now we have managed to
18 cram it into four days, the practical adjustor
19 training, and at the end of the fourth day
20 they have to produce an estimate the old
21 fashioned way, demonstrating that they still
22 can use a calculator and the measurements and
23 geometry to come up with the solutions. And
24 then we introduce the technology for the last
25 two days and show how the same work that they

45
1 did in about four hours it takes them to
2 complete the final for the course, can be done
3 in 30 minutes using the technology. So that's
4 -- That's where they really get excited. You
5 know, it really motivates the students to want
6 to become proficient in the technology. And
7 that's just some of the technology. We have
8 devices that we use in the field that are much
9 more -- much more amenable to accuracy than
10 just throwing a tape measure on the floor, you
11 know. We use distal lasers that are very
12 accurate and triangulate and that kind of
13 thing and come up with precise heights in
14 situations where you can't reach things. You
15 still do triangulation and come up with it.
16 Do a number of things with a true laser tape.
17 And there's that. And there's other tools of
18 the trade that we use for safety and for other
19 things, you know, that really demonstrate --
20 make people faster and better at what they do.
21 Q. So the gist of the training would be
22 to go to a place or to the site of damage and
23 measure and inventory the repairs that are
24 required.
25 A. Generally we -- we don't -- we don't

46
1 go there until right towards the end. And
2 we're not using that as a site to do the
3 estimate. I give them something that's very
4 -- very much more exact in terms of the exact
5 scope I want them to do. And the reason for
6 that is I need to measure their -- their
7 results against the other students and against
8 my results. And the only way to do that is to
9 in advance have everything prepared. And so I
10 have a prepared scope that I do with them for
11 testing so that the -- the in-field experience
12 is just so that they can make a visual
13 connection to those that are visually --
14 visual learners, you know, that need to see
15 something in order to really understand it.
16 It becomes too much theory if they don't get
17 to see it and touch it and feel it. And so
18 that's the reason we go to the sites. And we
19 actually would take our information that they
20 have been learning and say "This is what we
21 were talking about when we said this." I
22 showed them a picture, but now you can touch
23 it, you know. And it's a lot of difference.
24 Q. And so when you're training them,
25 you take them to a site that isn't some torn
47
1 apart house that needs to be repaired? You're
2 going to take them to a site --
3 A. It can be. In fact, it depends on
4 where it is. In Florida, we -- we used one
5 that was torn up from storm damage and gave us
6 a pretty good opportunity to show how that
7 would be reflected in an estimate. And so,
8 you know, there's -- that happens.
9 Q. But I guess what I am getting at is
10 what you're training them to do, the point of
11 the training, you're going to take them to a
12 site, be it torn up or together or --
14 Q. -- whatever, but the point of the
15 training is so that when they go out in the
16 field to adjust, they can go to a site that
17 has been subject to a loss --
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. -- and use this technology or their
20 old hand methods in geometry and calculators
21 to determine what's required to reconstruct
22 the site of the loss?
23 A. That's true. Yes.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. That is accurate. Additionally, and

48
1 we -- this was never mentioned, but a large
2 portion of our time is spent in training them
3 on construction techniques as well so that
4 they know the process by which to reconstruct
5 something, not just the names of pieces, but
6 they actually get the process and the methods
7 that are necessary to do that. And I use
8 certified training video along with what I
9 teach them that is -- that's certified by
10 construction -- I don't remember the name of
11 the organization, but it's -- it's a technical
12 organization on construction techniques and
13 it's certified as educational material. In
14 fact, we have to lease it. We can't even buy
15 it. But we take them from foundations all the
16 way through finishing. So they learn just
17 about everything about it in a short order.
18 But, of course, years of experience is what it
19 takes to really understand it, but -- but at
20 least they have the nuts and bolts there, plus
21 I given them tools by which they can research
22 and go back and look up information. We have
23 exhaustive glossary of construction terms;
24 it's over 1,000 interactive glossary that they
25 can actually teach themselves what the terms

49
1 mean and what the objects are and what their
2 function are.
3 Q. Did you compile that?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. Beyond this compiling of this
6 course, which sounds impressive, any
7 publications elsewhere in trade publications
8 or anything?
9 A. I have written a few theological
10 things that have been published, but I don't
11 think that counts. I have published music.
12 Q. Oh, great. What was your
13 instrument?
14 A. I was a vocal technician and so I
15 have actually written a lot of music.
16 Q. Great. You recorded anything?
17 A. Yeah. But nothing that's been long
18 on the charts or anything like that.
19 Q. Any other honors or awards or
20 qualifications relevant to the adjusting, the
21 testimony you'll be rendering?
22 A. Only that, you know, I have been
23 recognized by some leaders in the field as
24 very proficient in what we do. Some of the
25 largest carriers in the country recommended us

50
1 to other large carriers in the country for
2 training purposes. I have been the CAT
3 director, which is catastrophic damage
4 director, for an actual insurance company
5 their first year in order to get them rolling
6 that first year. I have also been the CAT
7 director for our company now. So I manage
8 storms.
9 Q. CAT?
10 A. CAT is catastrophic storms or
11 damages.
12 Q. All right.
13 A. And that would be a hurricane or
14 some large scale loss.
15 Q. Now, since you took the course in
16 2005, have you worked for Advanced Adjusting
17 ever since?
18 A. No. No, I have worked -- I did a
19 little bit of insurance adjusting work as an
20 independent adjustor with them in 2006, I
21 believe, and that was for a very short time
22 that I was doing work with them. I worked for
23 a few -- The nature of the field is that you
24 go where the work is. And when that dries up,
25 then everybody knows you're going to go find

51
1 some work somewhere else. So I have worked
2 for a variety of vendors or clients that
3 needed me and once I began putting the
4 training together, I was able to spend more of
5 my time doing consulting work and helping to
6 build systems, efficiency systems with
7 carriers and that kind of thing.
8 Q. So sort of freelance as an adjustor
9 immediately out of the training course and
10 then went -- I think you said about 14 months
11 ago that you went with Advanced?
12 A. Right. Full time 14 months ago.
13 They have got me on salary and commission as
14 well.
15 Q. And then when you say you can get
16 into more consulting work, do I understand
17 that to mean that rather than just adjusting,
18 you're teaching other people to adjust and
19 consulting with -- more managing the
20 adjusting?
21 A. It's really more managing, but the
22 -- in the process of all of the -- of the
23 consulting, you have to keep your hand in it
24 in some way, and I found myself writing and
25 reviewing thousands of claims over the time.

52
1 And especially when you have -- you know, I'll
2 have a student or somebody else, somebody that
3 I had met and they recognize my abilities and
4 they needed help and they would call me to
5 come in and try to bail them out on
6 overburdened work and that kind of thing. I
7 would just step in and try to do that. Or
8 maybe teach them how to do it as well. I have
9 been paid doing consulting over the last
10 couple of years.
11 Q. Okay. By whom were you hired to be
12 here today?
13 A. I was contacted by Jon Andry.
14 Q. And when would that have been?
15 A. About a year ago. Approximately a
16 year ago.
17 Q. Okay. And any idea who referred Mr.
18 Andry to you?
19 A. I am not -- I am not really sure,
20 you know.
21 Q. Okay. You never talked about that
22 or anything?
23 A. Well, I have talked to -- Everybody
24 that I have talked to has pretty much told me
25 that there's a team of lawyers involved in

53
1 this, and I negotiated claims on behalf of an
2 insurance carrier with people in the office of
3 Bruno and Bruno a couple of years ago; and
4 when I was doing that, I knew that they were
5 interested in using me in defending some of
6 their claims that they were working on at that
7 time. So even though the work that I was
8 doing originally with them was adversarial, I
9 was representing an insurance carrier and --
10 but we had a great rapport and an ability to
11 settle claims and to negotiate between us. So
12 I negotiated a lot of claims a couple of years
13 ago. I was a negotiator for one of the
14 insurance companies.
15 Q. Which one?
16 A. Bankers Insurance.
17 Q. So you don't know -- On a more
18 adversarial footing you had contact with Bruno
19 and Bruno and many of the different lawyers
20 involved in the Katrina litigation. You're
21 not sure who made the ultimate decision to
22 give you a call, just it was Mr. Andry on the
23 other end of the phone when you did get a
24 call?
25 A. I would have expected somebody from

54
1 Bruno and Bruno, but I never did hear that. I
2 was contacted by Mr. Andry. I understood
3 later there was an association to do with all
4 of this.
5 Q. Who's paying your fee?
6 A. Actually, I don't know, you know.
7 MR. ANDRY:
8 The team is.
9 THE WITNESS:
10 I don't really know.
12 Q. Okay. What fees are you charging to
13 do this?
14 A. I charge an hourly fee for the time
15 that I am -- that I am in discussion and I
16 charge a fee schedule for adjusting the actual
17 physical adjusting work of preparing
18 estimates. And so there's a fee schedule that
19 is common in the insurance industry that --
20 that translated well into doing it for this
21 team as well.
22 Q. Is that easy to explain off the top
23 of your head or should we just request a copy
24 of it?
25 A. I can explain it basically.

55
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. I can't give you the precise numbers
3 off the top of my head. But the idea is that
4 the larger the -- There's a fee schedule, a
5 range of -- a range of damages would be this
6 fee. If I find more damages, then it would be
7 a larger fee. And it's a graduated scale that
8 is -- that's pretty much an industry standard
9 in insurance work. And so it works for me as
10 an adjustor to use that as well. It's no
11 different. I don't inflate the scale at all.
12 It's the same one that's used in insurance
13 adjusting. So I use that. But as far as
14 consulting, you know, that is just an hourly
15 fee that I charge.
16 MR. MYER:
17 I would request a copy of the fee
18 schedule if it's published, written
19 down.
20 MR. ANDRY:
21 Well, there was an agreement, and
22 I have to object for the record
23 because there was an agreement, my
24 understanding, between Robin Smith and
25 Joe Bruno between the Plaintiffs and

56
1 Defendants in the case, that the
2 expert compensation wasn't going to be
3 delved into. And most of the time in
4 the depositions, I find rather than
5 objecting a whole bunch, it goes
6 faster to just let them ask the
7 questions and then make an objection
8 on the record.
9 MR. MYER:
10 Fine.
11 MR. ANDRY:
12 But to the extent that that was
13 not agreed to, we'll provide that
14 information. To the extent it was,
15 I'll just object on the record.
16 MR. MYER:
17 Okay.
19 Q. In general, how many hours have you
20 worked on this to date?
21 A. Today?
22 Q. To date.
23 A. Oh.
24 Q. Since you were called a year or so
25 ago.
57
1 A. Probably, I would say somewhere in
2 the area of maybe 60 hours or so. 60, 70
3 hours. That's a guess.
4 Q. Yes. It would have been documented
5 and invoiced and written down?
6 A. What I had done prior, you know,
7 there's -- In the last week I have done a good
8 bit more.
9 Q. Okay. When Mr. Andry called you,
10 what were you asked to do?
11 A. I was asked to assess the physical
12 damages of five different properties and --
13 and determine not necessarily the cause, but
14 to what extent I thought that rising water had
15 to do with the damages. Because there could
16 have been more than one cause. But
17 originally, the first request was to -- was
18 somewhat limiting, in that I was asked to look
19 at rising water as not necessarily the sole
20 issue, but the primary issue. And so that's
21 the -- that's the approach that I took with
22 the first five. I made references in my
23 report to other considerations as far as
24 damages would be concerned. I think I
25 referenced that on all five of the reports to

58
1 demonstrate that there are always other
2 considerations of actual damages that are not
3 merely structural in nature. Physical
4 structural damages.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. There are other things, contents,
7 loss of use, other things that aren't just the
8 physical property damage.
9 Q. What numbers or amounts were you
10 specifically asked to estimate, calculate,
11 tabulate, that sort of thing? Did they want
12 you to come up with quantities for them?
13 A. No, they left in my hands to
14 determine, as their resident expert on
15 estimating damages, how I presented that. And
16 once -- once the request was made for me to go
17 in and find the damages associated with rising
18 water, I did -- I did that and arrived at a
19 conclusion, extant of much interference from
20 other estimates and, honestly in my
21 experience, I -- I really do consider it
22 almost interference when you have other
23 persons' estimates other than your own to
24 influence you when you start. You need to
25 make a fresh observation of your own in order

59
1 to get everything in that you believe is right
2 and not be influenced by something that
3 somebody else has already drawn up.
4 Otherwise, you're just either agreeing or
5 disagreeing with them and you're not being
6 very investigative about it. And so I start
7 that way all the time. And honestly, that was
8 probably the very best way to do it in this
9 case, because there was some limited
10 information available about those homes.
11 Especially with people still not living in
12 them, people still gone. Most of the
13 information that an adjustor can get that's
14 valuable to them will come from the
15 homeowner. And that allows them to get an
16 awful lot from them. And some of that
17 information I did get, but some of it I had to
18 wait for until after the initial batch of work
19 had been done because there was apparently a
20 pretty tight schedule to get that finished and
21 turned in so that we could move on.
22 Q. So there were other estimates that
23 had been done on these five properties?
24 A. After I -- After I finished my
25 initial work, I reviewed some others that I --

60
1 that were -- that had been submitted to -- to
2 the law team. And I looked at some of that.
3 Some of it I agreed with, some of it I
4 didn't. I didn't make any adjustments based
5 on it, because there was no good information
6 to do that. So I didn't change mine based on
7 other estimates at all.
8 Q. You anticipated my question. Okay.
9 What, if anything, in your conversations and
10 setting up what you were going to do with
11 regard to the lawsuit, what, if anything, was
12 explained to you about damages under the law?
13 A. Damages under the law?
14 Q. Yes.
15 A. I don't believe we had much of a
16 discussion about damages under the law per se.
17 Q. No one show you any case law and --
18 A. No, no.
19 Q. -- Said here's what you will be
20 calculating and all of that?
21 A. No. Not at all.
22 Q. Was there any discussion about
23 specifically what area of expertise you'd be
24 offered as an expert witness? Or was there a
25 topic of that at hand?
61
1 A. I think the basic discussions that I
2 have had with Jon and whoever else has had
3 anything to say was to tell what you know as
4 an expert and limit it to that.
5 Q. I know -- We were provided several
6 reports here. The damage report -- They sort
7 of came in in a couple -- There was a one-page
8 damage report and then this, the written out
9 quantifications of the damages to the
10 properties.
11 A. Right.
12 Q. And then --
13 A. I'll be happy to explain any of that
14 that you would like to see.
15 Q. Right. Right. We're going to talk
16 in very general terms.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. It's very well laid out, so a lot of
19 it, you know -- We're not going to spend eight
20 hours here going line by line. Yea. But just
21 --
22 A. Excuse me?
23 VIDEO OPERATOR:
24 Need to change tapes. Off the
25 record.

62
1 (Whereupon a discussion was held
2 off the record.)
3 VIDEO OPERATOR:
4 This is the beginning of tape 2.
5 We're back on the record.
7 Q. Ready? Okay. Just clear up a few
8 more little details here. Have you consulted
9 with any other experts concerning this
10 litigation?
11 A. Yes. I've -- I suggested at the
12 onset when I first looked at all the homes
13 that, because I was not a structural engineer
14 and I was not an expert in soil or water
15 movement, that we get an engineer, civil
16 engineer at least to look at what I have done
17 and to either verify it or a consultant tell
18 me that I needed to change something because
19 an expert -- their expert opinion. So yes, I
20 suggested that, and as far as I -- and then I
21 discovered later that they did indeed do
22 that.
23 Q. That was Mr. Crawford who was
24 deposed yesterday?
25 A. Yes.

63
1 Q. Okay. Other than -- Did you ever
2 meet and talk with Mr. Crawford?
3 A. Not until this week.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. You know, earlier in the week.
6 Q. And basically your consultation with
7 him was just to, as I understand it, from what
8 I was told about the deposition yesterday, he
9 was concerned with your estimates of how high
10 the water had come on the different
11 properties?
12 A. Those are -- Those are issues that
13 -- that go beyond the scope of a property
14 adjustor, to be able to scientifically
15 determine, you know, through scientific
16 methods that -- the exact water levels. I can
17 observe what I can observe. I can measure and
18 be, in my opinion, very accurate on those
19 measurements, but because it's such a seminal
20 issue, I believed it was important that you
21 got somebody that had credentials in that
22 arena to verify the numbers.
23 Q. If his opinion, I wasn't there at
24 his deposition or anything, but if his opinion
25 yesterday differed in any way from yours in
64
1 these reports, would you defer to him or --
2 A. I wouldn't necessarily defer to
3 him. It would just influence how I thought
4 about that. That perhaps I had made a mistake
5 in some area if he had found different. As
6 far as I could tell, his findings were
7 virtually identical.
8 Q. So in consulting with him in the
9 last week or so, you didn't -- and in the
10 reports that have now been produced today, you
11 didn't make any -- you didn't make any
12 changes?
13 A. There's been no changes whatsoever
14 made to water level issues or anything like
15 that.
16 Q. Okay. Looking at the reports that
17 we were provided a while back, last year, and
18 the photographs attached to them, it appears
19 that you did have a chance to inspect or view
20 the different homes in late February and March
21 of 2008?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Is that the first time that you saw
24 any of these homes, properties?
25 A. Yes.

65
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. As far as I recall. I looked at so
3 many homes during Katrina and right after
4 that, you know, I have been -- I'm sure I have
5 seen those homes at some point driving by
6 them.
7 Q. Right. But you were never there to
8 inspect them --
9 A. No.
10 Q. -- or form any opinions about them?
11 A. No. I would remember if I had
12 actually done work at those homes.
13 Q. Okay. To take the houses one at a
14 time, do you recall when it was that you saw
15 Miss Smith's home?
16 A. I saw all five homes in a two day
17 period.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. So if I -- if I really went through
20 it in my mind, I could probably tell you which
21 order I did them in.
22 Q. All right.
23 A. But I don't recall exactly.
24 Q. Maybe I can help.
25 A. It's -- Yeah, I'm sure it's on

66
1 there.
2 Q. The dates here, the JPEG pictures?
3 A. There it is.
4 Q. And those pictures are dated on the
5 date that you would have been at each house?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. A nice shorthand that we can --
8 A. There you go.
9 Q. Okay. How long did you spend at
10 each site on the days that those pictures were
11 made?
12 A. Some longer than others. I averaged
13 about two hours. Some were just more
14 complicated. Because I wasn't -- I wasn't
15 satisfied with all the conclusions I needed to
16 make for a while. It took me a while of
17 looking into it and finding marks, looking at
18 things, observing the physical damage, the
19 amount of decay was certainly an issue that
20 influenced how badly it was damaged and -- and
21 the extent of the water rising. And having
22 done so many homes, you know, I'd seen the
23 same thing over and over and over again,
24 hundreds and hundreds of times in New Orleans
25 and so I was looking at it trying -- trying to

67
1 be a little more definitive than just the
2 blanket approach of it got flooded and,
3 therefore, we got -- we got to gut the whole
4 thing out. I wanted to make a little bit more
5 precise determinations because I knew that it
6 was something that precision was important,
7 even more so than in an insurance case.
8 Q. Okay. If we broke it down into the
9 five different properties, would you have any
10 specific memory of how long you spent at Miss
11 Smith's house and Mr. Robinson's house? This
12 was over a year ago.
13 A. They were somewhat balanced.
14 Probably Mr. Robinson's, there was less that I
15 could do at the time because there was no
16 access to the inside of the home at that
17 time. And so I did everything I could do and
18 I was probably gone in an hour at that home.
19 Q. All right. How about Miss Smith's
20 home? Any memory of how long you were there?
21 A. That took a while longer, because I
22 had two factors. I had the original damages
23 to consider and extrapolate that from what I
24 saw at the time, which was a burnt wreck. It
25 had already been burned by then and my

68
1 original task was to find the damages that
2 might have occurred through rising water, not
3 through fire, you know. So that complicated
4 the issue quite a bit.
5 I could tell from the -- I have
6 done fire investigation, too, as a course -- I
7 mean, as a matter of course in looking at
8 damages. I could tell that the fire was not
9 very old. It wasn't a year old. I knew
10 that. Based on the structures that were still
11 left and the lack of dismantling of burnt
12 pieces, it was still pretty much -- a lot of
13 it was still intact. Everything looked like
14 it was -- what hadn't actually crumbled from
15 the fire itself was still there, so it hadn't
16 been exposed to weather all that long, you
17 know. And I didn't even find out until last
18 week that it was -- that it burned within a
19 couple of months of when I was there. So that
20 kind of verified that. But the other thing I
21 was really trying to find in some of the
22 unaffected areas evidence of just how high
23 water would have been in that home. And
24 pretty much I had to go outside the house to
25 see that. Because inside there was nothing

69
1 left to tell me anything. And even since then
2 I have discovered that there had been
3 considerable amount of remodeling that was
4 done and completed when -- when the fire broke
5 out. So there wasn't a lot of evidence left.
6 But I did find some. It just took a while.
7 Q. How about the Franz's house? How
8 long were you there?
9 A. That took several hours because of
10 the -- just how badly it was damaged
11 structurally and the fact that there were --
12 it was completely left just as it was. They
13 moved, they left, nothing happened, and it was
14 extremely difficult to navigate. So, you
15 know, I just took a lot of time there. And
16 spent some time looking at a lot of things
17 that were left behind. It let me
18 understanding that they just -- they must have
19 left very quickly and there was virtually
20 nothing taken. It was just left as was, which
21 was also very unusual for the location. I
22 believe it was on St. Claude. I am not --
23 Q. It is.
24 A. And it -- that's a pretty busy
25 street, and I was very surprised to find that

70
1 it still had electronics in the house. Very
2 surprised. Because most of those had been
3 absconded with, you know, in the homes I had
4 been in over the previous times, a couple of
5 years. So it was rather surprising. But it
6 did tell me some things, too. I could see
7 water levels pretty easily inside the home and
8 was able to -- was able to see the damages
9 because nothing had been stripped yet. It was
10 more evident that way.
11 Q. How about -- I know Mr. Lattimore's
12 business and personal -- the site of his house
13 trailer and his business were not exactly
14 adjacent, but very close to each other. So I
15 would imagine you made that site visit as
16 one?
17 A. Yeah. Well, I did them at the same
18 time, but that also took a long time. And the
19 reason it took a long time was because there
20 was a new business in the original site that
21 had been completely remodeled by the time I
22 got there. And so finding evidence of what
23 caused the damage really took some
24 investigation. I was in the attic, I was
25 under the house, I was -- I spent time really

71
1 looking for what happened to it. And -- And I
2 was not -- I was not surprised to find that
3 there was still plenty of evidence underneath
4 and in the attic both that there had been
5 water damage going on there.
6 Q. Not to be facetious, but his house
7 trailer was just gone after the storm.
8 A. That was gone. No, I was talking
9 about the business at that point.
10 Q. Right.
11 A. But the house trailer was gone. In
12 place of it was a FEMA park. So basically I
13 got testimony from Mr. Lattimore as to the
14 size and position of the trailer and went to
15 the location exactly where it was and
16 photographed everything that was immediately
17 adjacent to it in the area and found the
18 evidence of water damage on the adjacent
19 properties that had not been fixed yet. So I
20 was able to probably within 50 feet find water
21 marks of where that trailer stood.
22 Q. Who was present when you went to
23 each of these properties?
24 A. At the Lattimores there was nobody
25 but the renting -- the rental -- the leasing

72
1 business. Whatever -- Whoever was leasing it.
2 Q. The dance studio.
3 A. The dance studio. I think they
4 leased it from him. So there was the owner or
5 operator there. There was nobody else to see
6 at the Lattimore place.
7 Q. How about at Miss Smith's house?
8 A. There was nobody at all. I was
9 completely alone when I did that.
10 Q. The Franzes?
11 A. The same thing.
12 Q. And Robinson?
13 A. The same thing there, too.
14 Q. Were you given any additional
15 instructions when you went to inspect them or
16 you were just operating on the instructions
17 that you had been given by the phone calls
18 with Mr. Andry?
19 A. Exactly what I had stated before.
20 Only what -- Only those instructions were
21 given and I was given a lot of latitude as to
22 how I was to approach it.
23 Q. Okay. I know there are photographs
24 in here in the report that we just looked at
25 that are dated -- give us the dates when you
73
1 were there. Are those all of the photographs
2 that you took on site?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Or were there others?
5 A. Those are the ones that I found
6 pertinent. I probably had a few that either
7 did not show anything that I hoped it would or
8 -- or not in focus correctly. You know,
9 there's a lot of trash photos that I take. I
10 take more than I need so that I can use the
11 ones that really demonstrate what I am trying
12 to describe.
13 Q. These are the ones that were worth
14 uploading out of the camera?
15 A. Right. They were the ones that were
16 there. They were the ones I saved for the
17 estimate.
18 Q. Are there any still in existence
19 that you didn't include in these reports?
20 A. No. No. I don't save photos that I
21 don't use.
22 Q. There are a couple of stacks of
23 photos that I see now, and I believe they have
24 been produced to us, are these your photos?
25 Did you take these?
74
1 A. No.
2 Q. Okay. These were just photos that
3 others took that you have looked at in the
4 last few days?
5 A. Right. Just this week.
6 Q. Okay.
7 MR. MYER:
8 And if Robin Smith and the FTCA
9 folks don't have these, we want a copy
10 of them.
11 MR. ANDRY:
12 Sure. I could give you a copy --
13 I think that these are copies that you
14 can just take with you. So if you
15 have them, they have them. If they
16 don't have them, you have them.
17 MR. MYER:
18 Okay.
20 Q. I think you made notes as you --
21 A. I have a scope sheet that I use that
22 is in a hieroglyphic that nobody but I can
23 read.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. However, it has -- It's the same

75
1 technique I teach in the class. I use the
2 technique that I teach in the class. It's
3 just that my handwriting is so sloppy that
4 nobody else can read it.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. And I know, again, I spoke earlier
7 of using the technology properly. I know -- I
8 know what I have to have written down in order
9 to accurately get it on the -- in the
10 estimate, using -- Using the computer to do
11 so. It's a shorthand version, but it's very
12 detailed and very methodical about the way I
13 looked at it. And I can describe that if
14 you're interested. It's going to be boring.
15 Q. I don't know that I need to go into
16 it. For the record, so we understand you made
17 notes that then you took back and, be they
18 numbers or indications of -- you made notes of
19 what you would enter into the Estimatic or
20 whatever the program was?
21 A. Xactimate.
22 Q. Xactimate program?
23 A. Right.
24 Q. In order to make a representation of
25 each of the sites from which you would
76
1 construct these --
2 A. Right.
3 Q. -- charts (indicating)?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. In fact, the little drawings
6 and things here I take it Xactimate would
7 produce?
8 A. That's been produced in Xactimate.
9 In the last part of the estimate you'll see
10 the larger scale of those same -- same
11 drawings. The way it breaks it out is room by
12 room, so it takes that room and puts it with
13 the room that it goes in in the line items.
14 Q. Right. And what you're producing
15 there is sort of a junior CADD -- my
16 brother-in-law is an architect that works in
17 CADD --
18 A. Exactly.
19 Q. Sort of a junior CADD picture that
20 identifies all the fixtures and electrical
21 outlets?
22 A. Sometimes fixtures and electrical
23 outlets. In most of the cases, it does
24 because I use the sketch functions fully in
25 that when I did these. Most estimates you

77
1 look at probably would not have all of those
2 items in it.
3 Q. But using the sketches and the --
4 then that would break down and, as we have got
5 here, inventory areas of drywall that need
6 replacing, areas of floorboards, baseboards,
7 all the different components to make up a room
8 that would require replacement to put that
9 room back together?
10 A. Exactly. Exactly. And the software
11 package is -- is pervasive enough that it
12 calculates everything including the
13 construction techniques that are necessary.
14 So it calculates in some cases waste and those
15 kinds of variables that have to be brought
16 into focus.
17 Q. Right. So in other words, if I have
18 to buy a full sheet of wallboard to replace a
19 damaged half sheet of wallboard, I am not
20 going to get away with buying a half sheet of
21 wallboard. It's going to include a full sheet
22 of wallboard in the estimate that Xactimate --
23 A. That's a simple --
24 Q. Simplistic?
25 A. Maybe simplistic way of saying it.

78
1 I didn't want to put that label on you.
2 Q. Right.
3 A. But that's -- That is. It's a
4 little simplistic, but it is the nature of
5 what it does. It makes calculated decisions
6 about it as you're working through it.
7 Q. Got you. Okay. Other than your
8 hieroglyphic-like notes and your camera, do
9 you take anything from the sites?
10 A. Did I take anything away from the
11 sites?
12 Q. Right.
13 A. No.
14 Q. Other than the Xactimate data that
15 you entered in all of this, did you do any
16 physical testing or analysis of any data? You
17 didn't take soil samples or anything?
18 A. No. No, I didn't do any technical
19 sampling of anything.
20 Q. Okay. And I suppose you could call
21 this a simulation or modeling of the houses
22 when you drew it up by Xactimate?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. But other than this, did you do any
25 other modeling or simulation or mathematical
79
1 calculations or anything about the houses?
2 A. I have become a champion of the
3 program in such a way that I know that it can
4 actually -- There's nothing that it can't
5 calculate for me.
6 Q. Great?
7 A. And I have become very confident in
8 its accuracy, to the point that I don't have
9 to go back and do the hand calculations on
10 something that I have -- that I have properly
11 sketched. I have tested that premise out many
12 times and been very satisfied that it works.
13 Q. I didn't mean the question to be any
14 kind of critique or anything.
15 A. And that's not what I am saying.
16 That's just as straightforward a way of
17 answering that as I could think of.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. I'm very confident of it, so I
20 wouldn't necessarily need a -- need to use my
21 calculator and a slide rule kind of approach.
22 Q. So this is what you did. This is
23 everything you did after you left the sites.
24 You produced through Xactimate these reports?
25 A. Right.

80
1 Q. Okay. To get into the reports now,
2 I know in the reports that I have had for many
3 months, there are a couple of things and there
4 is a notation in three of the five that I had
5 before about "Homeowners have contents
6 regularly amounting to approximately 50
7 percent of the value of their home". Does
8 that -- in the new reports that you produced,
9 does that thought or statistic form any part
10 of any opinion that you're now using?
11 A. Yes. In one case, in the case of
12 the Franzes, who I was never able to
13 physically have a meeting with of any sort, I
14 had to rely on statistical norms to create a
15 number that is reasonable. And there was not
16 sufficient time to be able to look at a
17 physical list of theirs and verify everything
18 on it. So I used, rather than that, I used my
19 normal norms for establishing those numbers.
20 And that's just looking at it from a -- from a
21 perspective of having done, you know, hundreds
22 and hundreds of the same homes in this same
23 situation and knowing what those numbers
24 continually come to. I mean, regularly come
25 to approximately 50 percent as a base line of

81
1 the policy A limits of the home. Which
2 basically is the dwelling amount of the
3 policy.
4 Q. So the policy A limit is the value
5 of the house itself?
6 A. Right. It would be -- a fully
7 insured homes means that it's insured to
8 value, to the value of the home. And that
9 actually there's some technical definitions
10 about that that allow you some skirmish on
11 that. You can tweak on that. But the point
12 is, is that -- is that a home is supposed to
13 be insured for what it's worth. And Xactimate
14 also has a valuation program that I run on
15 every home that I do. I don't include that in
16 the report unless it's requested. Actually, I
17 think those documents were available at some
18 point, but I -- they're not part of my report
19 here. And I look at the numbers and see if
20 they agree with what I have come up with.
21 Q. So when we're talking about the
22 policy A limit, the value of the home, would
23 that be the cost to reconstruct the home after
24 a catastrophe?
25 A. Yes.

82
1 Q. Or the cost to buy a home like it?
2 A. Since the reconstruction -- It
3 depends. Well, there's a couple of factors
4 here.
5 Q. Right.
6 A. Reconstruction is based on an RCV
7 amount and value is probably ACV. So when I
8 say that, you know, the actual cash value of a
9 home is what's it worth in the market.
10 Q. Right.
11 A. Versus the reconstruction value is
12 going to be much higher usually. You know,
13 building something back -- And not only just
14 building it back, but refurbishing a home
15 that's been damaged is generally substantially
16 more expensive for the same amount of square
17 footage that you're working with than it is to
18 build it brand new. Because it involves
19 demolition and deconstruction as well as
20 construction. You may be removing and
21 replacing things, not just replacing them.
22 And you have space limitations, you have time
23 considerations; labor escalates pretty badly
24 on that kind of a thing. So yes, there's --
25 there's several factors to consider.

83
1 Q. And to pursue that a bit, RCV and
2 ACV stand for what?
3 A. RCV is the replacement cost value.
4 That means what does it cost to replace it in
5 today's market. Right now, what would it cost
6 you to buy that new, whether it's a content
7 item or if it's a construction item. What is
8 it going to take to reproduce that, indemnify
9 the homeowner on that issue right now, you
10 know. Well, you know, indemnity really could
11 be ACV. So I don't want to go there too
12 much. But make it -- to buy it new, to build
13 it new, whatever, it's going to cost this much
14 right now. ACV is the actual cash value which
15 incorporates something called depreciation.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. And things are depreciated either by
18 percentages or by age. And blanket
19 depreciations are usually done by percentages,
20 whereas specific depreciations are line by
21 line, are usually done by age.
22 Q. Okay. What about the case if I want
23 to buy the house next door or buy a comparable
24 house? Would that be either RCV or ACV?
25 A. You're going to buy a comparable

84
1 house next door, then you would probably be
2 looking at ACV because it's what it's worth in
3 today's market as well as not just what it
4 cost to build it new, but if it's already
5 there, it's got a different value than -- you
6 know, the markets move a lot.
7 Q. Yes. I guess that's what I am
8 getting at. Is even -- RCV, replacement cost
9 value, is what it would cost to take the house
10 as it has been affected by whatever
11 catastrophe has hit it, do whatever demolition
12 is required, do whatever construction is
13 required to put it back in the shape it was in
14 before the catastrophe happened?
15 A. That is RCV.
16 Q. That is RCV. ACV would be what it
17 would take if there were a vacant plot next
18 door to start from scratch and build the same
19 house next door essentially?
20 A. Not really, no.
21 Q. Not really?
22 A. No. There's two models to think
23 of. New construction and remodel-rebuild
24 construction -- model. So new construction
25 model is a cheaper RCV than the reconstruction

85
1 model is. They're both RCV, but one of them
2 is less expensive than the other. New
3 construction is always cheaper.
4 Q. Okay. So ACV, however, would be to
5 just, say, put the money in my pocket to go
6 buy a comparable house somewhere in this
7 neighborhood or something that we adjustors
8 agree would be comparable to what you lost in
9 the house, in the real estate market as it
10 exists at the time the loss is paid?
11 A. With one caveat, and that is that it
12 incorporates a depreciation based on all of
13 those market values plus maintenance levels of
14 a home and several other factors. You know,
15 as to what condition it was in, it's a number
16 of things. The age of all the elements on
17 it. Does it have a new roof, does it have an
18 old roof. Does it have a -- Does it have an
19 older air conditioning system that needs --
20 that is about to run out of warranty. You
21 know, those are factors that come into ACV.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. So there are a lot of -- a lot of
24 stipulations in ACV that change what ACV will
25 be.

86
1 Q. Got you. Okay. But the goal of ACV
2 is to say, "We'll put the money in your pocket
3 to go buy another house to replace this one
4 and don't worry about repairing this one.".
5 A. It can be. If you're coming from an
6 insurance perspective, the policy will dictate
7 how you can approach it.
8 Q. Right.
9 A. And so an RCV policy, which is a
10 basic homeowner's policy that has replacement
11 cost value attached to it, an HO-3, for
12 example, the name of the policy, would be an
13 RCV policy that would allow you to be able to
14 buy it brand new in whatever market it is.
15 And if it's a content -- or rebuild it back to
16 like kind and quality, regardless of the
17 difference in cost. If it costs three times
18 as much as what you originally paid for it,
19 you still are due that --
20 Q. Right.
21 A. -- At that point because it's RCV,
22 to the limits of the policy, you know. So
23 that you can easily run into -- which we ran
24 into constantly, that we reached policy limits
25 on devastated homes because the cost of

87
1 putting it back like it was in like kind and
2 quality was astronomical compared to the
3 amount of coverage that was on the house. So
4 it -- there are times when RCV is what you're
5 choosing to use because the policy you're
6 working with or you're using ACV because it's
7 a less valuable policy, for one thing. It
8 would be a dwelling policy or some kind of
9 junior policy that's not -- doesn't have the
10 same feet behind it, you know, to allow the
11 homeowner to recover as well.
12 Q. Okay. So when you go in to an
13 adjustment, it is -- and not talking about --
14 you know, I am talking more hypothetically and
15 not your work in this lawsuit, but when you
16 walk into an adjustment after a loss in other
17 parts of your work, whether you do an
18 adjustment for an RCV or an ACV is driven by
19 what policy -- what the policy terms are?
20 A. The results are.
21 Q. Right.
22 A. There's a goal that an adjustor
23 should have when he looks at a home and he has
24 -- he has a split goal. One of those is his
25 fiduciary responsibilities to the carrier.

88
1 Because that's who's making -- who's paying
2 the money, that's who's doing it. But his
3 moral obligation, and this is clearly spelled
4 out in the ethics portions of adjusting
5 licenses, his moral obligation is to indemnify
6 the homeowner. So he wears a very big hat
7 when it comes to that, balancing those two.
8 He has to be frugal and responsible with the
9 carrier's money, but he has -- but his job is
10 to try to put the homeowner back like they
11 were to the very best of his ability. And so,
12 you know, it's -- it's a very -- there's a
13 natural tension in that description of the job
14 that comes. And the goal is to try to always
15 give them replacement cost value to the extent
16 that the policy will allow.
17 Q. But when we say -- I guess the gist
18 of what I am getting at here is when we say
19 his obligation to put the homeowner back like
20 they were, if it's RCV, he could put the home
21 -- his goal is to put the homeowner back like
22 he was by rebuilding the house.
23 A. Absolutely.
24 Q. And depending on the type of RCV,
25 either doing the demolition and rebuilding
89
1 this one or, if it's the other type of RCV,
2 building a new house like the one he lost?
3 A. Right. Right.
4 Q. For ACV, however, to put the
5 homeowner back like he was, what we're going
6 to do is put the money in his pocket to go buy
7 another house.
8 A. Not necessarily.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. They're going to give you the actual
11 cash value of the house, and normally that's
12 not sufficient to go and buy another house.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. And the reason is, is depreciation
15 is factored in.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. There are limitations to what you
18 can pay for. Not only are there limitations
19 -- ACV policies usually have -- are named
20 policies also, which means that they name what
21 is coverable specifically, versus a blanket
22 coverage like an HO-3 often has. Which means
23 that most everything is covered in an HO-3.
24 There are certain issues that wouldn't be
25 covered in an ACV policy at times depending on

90
1 which policy it is. It could be plumbing
2 issues, it could be water -- water issues.
3 Now, it depends on what kind of policy. And
4 again, we're not even getting into the
5 difference between wind and flood policies.
6 Q. Right.
7 A. We're just talking about what ACV
8 and RCV are at this point. And I will say
9 this. If you're talking about flood, it is
10 one policy. There is no variation on the
11 policy.
12 Q. Right.
13 A. You know, and it has restrictions on
14 what you can and can't put on it as -- if it's
15 a flood policy you're dealing with. But for
16 the sake of argument, ACV ususally is not
17 sufficient to fully indemnify the homeowner.
18 Your goal is to do that, but you're restricted
19 by the policy and you can only put down what
20 its actual cash value ends up being.
21 Q. So let me see if I get this right,
22 too. There are sort of two factors in driving
23 the fact that maybe an ACV recovery wouldn't
24 exactly put you back in the same house that
25 you were in before the catastrophe. The first
91
1 being, as -- if I am driving -- an analogy, if
2 I am driving a five year old car, I don't get
3 the cost of a brand new car of that model.
4 A. Right.
5 Q. And the second being that there may
6 be restrictions on the coverage that the type
7 of damage that is covered is not compensated.
8 A. The type of damage or even the cause
9 in some cases.
10 Q. Right. Okay. What you did in each
11 of the reports that I already have and each of
12 the reports that we have now been provided,
13 that you have worked on in the last few days,
14 was RCV calculations.
15 A. And necessarily so. Because again,
16 the goal is always to put them back like they
17 were to the best of your ability and the
18 extent of any insurance policy information,
19 which you need to be somewhat in a situation
20 like this I understand blind of. You know,
21 you're just basically very, very logically and
22 methodically looking at damages and trying to
23 determine what it's going to take to put that
24 house exactly like it was before, with no
25 restrictions. And if I had policies in front

92
1 of me, I would start finding restrictions in
2 some cases, --
3 Q. Right.
4 A. -- you know.
5 Q. But when you went -- sort of
6 starting out in this conversation we're having
7 here, in these cases when you wrote these
8 reports, and we will talk about the ones,
9 these four here (indicating), you updated them
10 in the last few days here, your goal was to
11 put the homeowners back like they were in
12 these by reconstructing the houses.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. So essentially each of these
15 is, using the Xactimate program, you have
16 figured the cost it would take to reconstruct
17 the four properties, Mr. Lattimore's business
18 and the Franzes, Robinsons, and Miss Smith's
19 house to the condition they were in prior to
20 Katrina.
21 A. Almost. Actually did all five of
22 the properties including the other Lattimore
23 as well. So that was the goal to do that
24 originally.
25 Q. All right.
93
1 A. Modifications do not occur on the
2 business because it was -- it would have been
3 something that is a different approach when
4 it's a commercial property anyway. And if we
5 were looking at it as if it were some kind of
6 insured interest, then there was no way that I
7 knew that there would be any coverage for that
8 kind of thing if I am thinking of it as an
9 insurance adjustor. You can't get personal
10 contents on that and you can't get certain
11 things. You can get business contents. You
12 can get some things in there. You can get
13 some personal contents. But the problem is
14 that there's other factors, like ALE is not a
15 factor in a commercial operation. You know,
16 you don't have -- You know, you don't have --
17 have to move to a motel because your business
18 is flooded, for example. You move there
19 because your residence is flooded. And so ALE
20 is dropped out of the equation. That was
21 something that we didn't need to modify,
22 because of that.
23 Loss of use is different when it's
24 a business than when it is a home. Now, so,
25 you know, you have business interruption

94
1 versus loss of use. So it's a different --
2 it's a different factoring thing and it's much
3 more complex and requires a much more detailed
4 -- much more detailed investigation for
5 businesses than it does for a home.
6 Q. "ALE" being additional living
7 expenses?
8 A. Yes, ALE is additional living
9 expenses.
10 Q. All right. Okay. But for each of
11 the four homes, the goal was to go in and look
12 at all the damage and come up with the costs
13 that it would take to deconstruct the damage,
14 to demolish been the damaged structures,
15 replace with new -- replace with repairs or
16 new construction to return the house to the
17 condition it was in prior to Katrina.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And with the business, that was the
20 general goal with some modifications for the
21 fact that maybe there wouldn't have been the
22 same recoverable ALE and it was business
23 property rather than personal property that
24 was contained within the homes?
25 A. Right. There were -- There are

95
1 those differences and so it wasn't necessarily
2 to -- necessary unless we spent considerable
3 time to delve into the business side of it.
4 And it was not something that we were prepared
5 to do at the time.
6 Q. To go back to a topic I was kind of
7 starting on before we got into all of that, we
8 talked about the statement you made, that
9 homeowners have contents regularly amounting
10 to approximately 50 percent of the value of
11 their home, what is the source of that
12 statement or statistic?
13 A. If you look at ISO forms and ISO are
14 the general static forms that are produced by
15 insurance carriers in their policies that are
16 shared among insurance carriers, they have
17 basic information about forms and then they
18 use those to base their own policy forms on.
19 It's kind of a template, so to speak, by which
20 they can base a policy's language on. And
21 they start with that and then modify it and
22 put exclusions and endorsements on it.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. And so that's how forms are
25 created. But in an ISO form you will find

96
1 that a lot of the carriers, if there is
2 nothing that has been designated as an
3 endorsement on that form, they will accept 50
4 percent as a standard amount of coverage A for
5 coverage C and a variance of 10 to 20 percent
6 on ALE or loss of use. And that's based on
7 the coverage A amount. 1- to 20 percent,
8 usually 20 in most cases, and 50 percent as a
9 baseline for contents.
10 Q. So the statement that approximately
11 50 percent of the value of their home is
12 essentially an industry standard for what an
13 insurance carrier would accept as a claim for
14 personal property in the absence of any other
15 evidence?
16 A. No.
17 Q. No?
18 A. No. That was -- I --
19 Q. A good stab, huh?
20 A. That's a good stab at it. But the
21 issue there is that they're not going to
22 accept -- If it is an insurance carrier, they
23 will only accept what's in their policy,
24 period, if it comes to claim time. But when
25 it comes to writing a claim, if nothing is --

97
1 if nothing is -- I mean, writing a policy.
2 Q. Writing a policy.
3 A. And -- And getting a contract on
4 that policy. A contractual agreement. They
5 generally will begin at a 50 percent benchmark
6 and write -- because they will write the
7 coverage for each coverage. They will write
8 the amount of each coverage in that and it
9 will be agreed upon. But we find if you look
10 at a number of them, that the majority of the
11 policies that are just standard policies are
12 running right at 50 percent. And without
13 that, without an endorsement, that's what they
14 end up being. 50 percent of coverage A is how
15 much they get coverage for on personal
16 property. So extant of the insurance policy
17 in my hand, that's an industry standard that
18 you would want to assume, is 50 percent.
19 Q. So if I approach an insurance broker
20 and say I would like to insure my house and
21 they send an adjustor out to -- an assessor
22 who comes out and looks at my house and says
23 "I think that house is worth $400,000 --"
25 Q. "-- RCV --"
98
1 A. Yeah, there you go.
2 Q. There you go. Then I -- if I don't
3 present the broker with evidence that I have
4 personal property worth more than $200,000,
5 then the max personal property coverage he
6 would be willing to give me would be
7 $200,000? Is that how that works?
8 A. That could be, depending on who the
9 broker is and who the underwriter is for that
10 carrier.
11 Q. It would be sort of an industry
12 standard that the --
13 A. That would be a norm, yes.
14 Q. It would be a norm that the broker
15 would expect to write something around half
16 the value, --
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- half the RCV value of the house
19 in the absence of any evidence --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- that I had personal property
22 worth more or less than that?
23 A. And in the absence also of certain
24 market conditions and housing issues in the
25 area that they are factoring in. And that's

99
1 why again I say it's an industry standard
2 extant of any other information to come into
3 it.
4 Q. Right. And the standard is more
5 used by brokers or those who write policies to
6 determine how much coverage they would allow?
7 Fair enough?
8 A. I think so. I think that that's a
9 fair statement.
10 Q. Is there any -- Are you aware of any
11 studies or statistics or anything that have
12 looked at actual contents of houses to judge
13 whether there's any statistical validity to
14 this assumption?
15 A. Nothing, no hard statistics, no.
16 But the -- I have some experience in visiting
17 with underwriters and what they're looking for
18 in these kinds of things, and they look at
19 bottom line dollars. Ultimately they're
20 trying to determine, if they're writing value
21 policies that -- valuable policies to both
22 them and the insured, whereby their claims
23 volume doesn't exceed their policy -- their
24 premiums, you know, in any way, and in doing
25 so, they do a lot of demographic studies and

100
1 they determine -- they determine those
2 standards based on a lot of demographic
3 studies. The underwriters are really where
4 the insurance research goes. They spend a lot
5 of time looking at areas where they're
6 covering and decide if the -- if the amount of
7 insurable contents is valid in the policies
8 that they're writing, or if they're
9 over-insuring them or they're under-insuring
10 them. Because what ends up happening is they
11 can take the actual claims, claim requests, in
12 other words, you get a -- you get a claim and
13 it's got a list of contents that far exceeds
14 the policy limits in contents area and they --
15 they keep a fairly good track of the -- of the
16 trends and they determine that these people
17 are under-insuring their contents constantly,
18 you know, or they're -- or the same could be
19 true of the dwelling itself. You know, is it
20 under-insured or is it over-insured. Or is it
21 costing more, is RCV actually higher than we
22 think it is. Is the housing market in that
23 area way different than the actual RCV for
24 rebuilding something. If it is, you know, we
25 need to try to bring those together some way.

101
1 And they do that in coverages and in
2 premiums.
3 Q. This is all actuarial work where
4 we're looking at policies written and claims
5 made.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. Are you aware of any kind of
8 statistical studies in which actual
9 inventories of home contents were compared
10 against this 50 percent rule of thumb?
11 A. I know there are those and I have
12 seen reports on them. I never read the
13 details on them.
14 Q. Okay. Where would you -- I mean, I
15 need to ask you -- I mean, is this some sort
16 of a thing that has statistically -- I mean,
17 have we gone through statistical analysis to
18 take samples of --
19 A. I wouldn't be able to answer that
20 definitively I don't think. Just because I
21 read -- I read industry newsletters and I stay
22 abreast of everything I can because of the
23 position I have in the company I am in now, I
24 need to be abreast of any trends that are
25 going on and find out who's doing what, what

102
1 carriers are doing what. And so I try to keep
2 up with that and that's where I have come
3 across some of those studies that, you know,
4 they're saying that people are over-insuring
5 or under-insuring their contents or their
6 possess- -- or their homes. We find more
7 studies on the actual RCV of the dwelling than
8 we do on anything.
9 Q. Right. And to the extent that there
10 are any studies comparing the value of house
11 contents to the RCVs, those are actuarial
12 studies by insurers to look at what sort of
13 policy should be written and accepted?
14 A. Not to -- Not to the full extent.
15 Because I am aware of -- and again, we go back
16 to technology. And Xactimate itself has a
17 sub-program within it that deals with
18 contents. And it's done through market
19 analysis and pricing that's very exact in the
20 way they do it. They have an entire staff
21 that does nothing but contents research and
22 they involve every large vendor of contents in
23 the country in getting the actual prices on
24 things and comparing that to damages and then
25 comparing it to the amount of coverages. And

103
1 some of the -- some of the things that you
2 hear comes from information that's derived
3 from that. So that's a little more modeling
4 from the economy and from actual pricing than
5 it is from an actuarial point of view.
6 Q. As you can tell, the gist of my
7 questions here is that I find it rather a
8 rough rule of thumb to say that the contents
9 of a person's house is worth 50 percent of the
10 value of their house.
11 A. I understand. I understand what
12 you're saying.
13 Q. And is there any published, peer
14 reviewed, statistically, and analyzed data
15 that would validate that rule of thumb to the
16 point that we should be using it to say that
17 was definitively the value of the personal
18 items in the Franzes' house?
19 A. Right. I do not have a study at
20 arm's length that I can point to for that. I
21 will say this. That in my experience in --
22 especially in Louisiana, that as I looked at
23 policies and as damages came through that had
24 policy limits in coverages of A and C, or the
25 dwelling and contents, that there was a

104
1 tendency in the policies to have amended the
2 amount of coverage beyond 50 percent in order
3 to indemnify the homeowners. And this has
4 been something that brokers and agents have
5 been suggesting, in increasing coverage on
6 contents in order to allow them to refurbish
7 and refurnish their homes properly. Because
8 we're finding that oftentimes that they were
9 under-insured on the contents. And so 50
10 percent I said was a benchmark, and I am
11 fairly confident of that as a rule of thumb
12 because it's a low rule. It's not a high
13 rule. And my experience has been that the
14 majority of the policies that I look at are at
15 least 50 percent and probably I would guess at
16 this point, this is an educated guess, at
17 least 30 percent of them are in excess of 50
18 percent.
19 Q. Okay. Which would mean 70 percent
20 of them are not in excess of 50 percent?
21 A. That would be -- That's the math,
22 right. But I would say -- But I would say,
23 too, that probably a very low percentage are
24 less than 50 percent.
25 Q. And again, just in terms of
105
1 statistics and Bell curves, I would find it
2 very, very rare that in fact the actual value
3 of the contents of a person's house is exactly
4 50 percent of the value, of the RCV or ACV or
5 any value of their house. Is that correct?
6 A. That would be a very rare thing, I
7 think.
8 Q. Okay. I know also you have talked
9 about additional living expenses have
10 consistently exceeded 20 percent of the value
11 of the homeowner's home during the course of
12 recovery. Is that the same sort of statistic,
13 that it's off the ISO forms and the rules that
14 are used in writing policies are --
15 A. There's another factor in that, and
16 it's time. Time drastically affects the ALE
17 factors. They're presuming that 20 percent
18 coverage -- 20 percent of your coverage A is
19 sufficient for ALE in a situation where you're
20 back in the home within a couple of months.
21 When you -- When you push it off to a year or
22 two, they -- there is rarely enough ALE in the
23 policy in order to allow for it.
24 Q. And again, what we're talking about,
25 when you're talking about ALE in the policy,
106
1 that would be --
2 A. That's coverage D in most cases.
3 Sometimes E, depending on whose policy it is.
4 Q. And the 20 percent comes from the
5 fact that if I go to a broker and want to say
6 I want to insure my house against major
7 catastrophes, they will give me a coverage D
8 that would allow me to rent an apartment while
9 my house is being repaired, --
10 A. Right.
11 Q. -- that sort of thing, --
12 A. Exactly.
13 Q. -- and what -- in the absence of
14 some submission by me to show that I would
15 need more or less coverage for my particular
16 situation, what they would be inclined to
17 allow me would be 20 percent of my --
18 A. They would be inclined, and I think
19 that honestly that that's probably an area
20 that they're a little less willing to waiver
21 on and increase coverage by very much, just
22 because those are the kinds of things that
23 insurance carriers don't like to do, is give
24 just an open hand to unlimited expenses, you
25 know. They want to encourage you to get your

107
1 house fixed and back in it. And so they want
2 to limit the amount of time that you're out of
3 it.
4 Q. What are the components of ALE?
5 What would --
6 A. The components basically are going
7 to be -- ALE is calculated based on two
8 things. Your normal living expenses and your
9 actual living expenses. All of your normal
10 living expenses, you would go through
11 methodically and basically write out your
12 expenses that you would have in every
13 category. Everything from food, housing,
14 laundry, dry cleaning, transportation, all of
15 your normal living expenses. Anything that
16 you would come up with. The only thing that
17 is just not considered is entertainment. And
18 even in some cases, carriers allowed some of
19 that because of the nature of the disaster.
20 They were allowing for some diversions, you
21 know, at times. That was somewhat rare, but
22 we did see it a couple of times. But for the
23 most part it's actual living expenses with --
24 against the normal living expenses. And the
25 difference of that is your additional living

108
1 expenses. And so it's constructed by that.
2 Q. Yes. I mean, for things like
3 laundry, dry cleaning, would the presumption
4 be that I have to dry clean some things that
5 were damaged? I mean, it wouldn't cost me any
6 more to take something to a dry cleaner from
7 an apartment I am living in than the home.
8 A. Well, here's the situation. We
9 found that dry cleaning was increased somewhat
10 dramatically as well because of the fact that
11 you don't have your normal setup in order to
12 do laundry in your machines that you're
13 comfortable with. We find over and over
14 people don't want to just throw their good
15 clothes into these laundromat washing
16 machines. Of course, they would rather --
17 they would go to the extra expense to have
18 them dry cleaned in order to -- to not risk
19 their goods. That does -- That happened a lot
20 and so we saw a lot of dry cleaning bills that
21 came through that seemed a bit out of kilter,
22 you know, that I looked at and that was often
23 the explanation. You know, "Why do you have
24 all of these receipts for dry cleaning?"
25 "Well, I wasn't going to put them in a

109
1 laundromat's washing machine."
2 Q. An interesting window into human
3 nature there.
4 A. But I mean they're actual expenses,
5 so -- at that point. So dry cleaning was
6 increased, but laundry was tremendously
7 increased because they didn't have the
8 machines available at all, you know, so,
9 therefore, that was -- We found transportation
10 increased almost double in most cases because
11 they were having to relocate great distances
12 away from where they were used to doing
13 business and had affiliations, whether it was
14 professional or personal, in the way that they
15 did things. And now they're paying twice as
16 much in transportation and they were before in
17 terms of mileage if you calculated it that way
18 or actual expenses if you did that. Either
19 way. So the expenses were exponential in
20 transportation and travel. The greatest
21 difference, though, is in the actual living
22 expense of finding a place to live. Because
23 you have to -- they still have to pay their
24 mortgage so they still owe that and now they
25 owe a rental on top of that every month or

110
1 whatever, a lease or a purchase or whatever it
2 is. Now they have got -- they have got two
3 mortgages or they have got one mortgage and a
4 lease. And that's gone up exponentially. The
5 actual cost of refurbishing even a temporary
6 home is pretty enormous. Having to buy all
7 new spices, for example, versus having a
8 cupboard full of them. You know, so your food
9 expenses went up. Your eating out expenses go
10 out the roof because of the fact that you're
11 displaced, you're often in foreign places, you
12 have -- your schedule is upside down, and
13 finding a way to sit around a table and cook a
14 meal is almost impossible in some cases. And
15 so that -- that expense goes very high in
16 ALE. Those are the kind of things that make
17 ALE variables really rise. The difference is
18 between what they used to do and what they
19 have to do now.
20 Q. Did you use that -- That statistic
21 or rule or thumb or whatever it is about the
22 20 percent of the value of the home --
23 A. I did. I restricted myself to that
24 20 percent just because I didn't want there to
25 be a question in what I was putting together

111
1 that those would be at a minimum standard for
2 ALE considering the fact that these people
3 were displaced for so long. And the -- the
4 problem with it is that the -- in many cases,
5 ALE is actually -- in almost all cases in
6 insurance work, it's actually nipped at one
7 year. You know, they won't pay past that in
8 insurance work. Regardless of the situation.
9 And so -- But it's written in the policy that
10 way. One year, period. I mean, it literally
11 lists that on the dec pages of State Farm and
12 some of the other -- you know, 12 months.
13 That's it. You're not getting any more. And
14 so when you -- when you look at that, you're
15 in a position where, if you're out for two
16 years, it doesn't take a lot of mathematics to
17 figure out that the expenses could easily go
18 past 20 percent.
19 Q. In each of the reports that we have
20 here, though, that you have done an update
21 over the last few days, you have used the 20
22 percent?
23 A. I didn't use it as an absolute
24 standard. What I did was I took some
25 interview information from the homeowners to

112
1 find out what they were saying about their
2 expenses and I used a worksheet that is in
3 Xactimate again and developed their ALE based
4 on that.
5 Q. For any of them, did you just use
6 the policy A limit, or RCA times 20 percent?
7 A. I'm not sure if Franz I did that way
8 or not. I may have. But I don't think I
9 did. I think -- No, I didn't. I -- Actually,
10 I used records from the -- from the
11 depositions to listen to what he was saying
12 about how they lived and what they did, and I
13 think his -- I ended up actually giving less
14 than -- less than 20 percent there. Because
15 he seemed to be fairly frugal and simple in
16 the way that he lived.
17 Q. Okay.
18 VIDEO OPERATOR:
19 Excuse me.
21 Q. To look at the individual report --
22 A. He's needing --
23 VIDEO OPERATOR:
24 Need to go off the record and
25 change tapes. This is the end of tape

113
1 2. We're going off the record.
2 (Recess.)
3 VIDEO OPERATOR:
5 We're back on the record.
7 Q. Okay. To start with, in talking
8 about the individual reports, I have here the
9 stack of reports that we were provided many,
10 many months ago, but just to clarify, those
11 would be superseded by the reports, these four
12 reports that I have been given today?
13 A. Right. I would say so.
14 Q. All right. And, in fact, looking at
15 the loss report, the first couple of pages,
16 basically the difference is that there is a
17 supplement in each of them to take into
18 account some considerations that you take into
19 account.
20 A. Most of which we have discussed at
21 this point.
22 Q. Right.
23 A. So yes, that would be true.
24 Q. Okay. Therefore, I won't talk about
25 these and these can just go away and we'll
114
1 talk about the newer ones.
2 A. Okay.
3 Q. To start with the report about 3920
4 Despaux Drive in Chalmette --
5 MR. ANDRY:
6 Despaux.
7 MR. MYER:
8 Despaux?
9 MR. ANDRY:
10 Yes.
12 Q. Tanya Smith's home. In the original
13 home, there was talk about a fire and -- in
14 this one still, it's here, but the supplement
15 was to take into account the fact that in fact
16 her home was rebuilt and in late 2007 or early
17 2008, a month on so before you came to do the
18 site visit, unfortunately a subcontractor left
19 something alight or electrical, something
20 happened and the rebuilt house burned.
22 Q. So, in fact, you have gone through
23 something, through your notes and have an
24 understanding of what happened and tried to
25 redo the report to take into account the
115
1 original damages to the house, nothing to do
2 with that fire?
3 A. Exactly. There were a few cases
4 during interviewing Miss Smith, myself, also
5 reviewing all the photos, that I became aware
6 of more information about certain construction
7 issues of the house. I became aware of the
8 details of the expenses that she had that were
9 outside the actual physical damages. So I
10 became aware of some of that and then began to
11 interview her on ALE issues and got
12 information on that. And the contents, a very
13 detailed contents list of things that were in
14 room by room and I felt that it was imperative
15 to be thorough to put -- to reproduce the
16 contents where they were in the home in my
17 report. And so that's what this has done.
18 It's -- It's not-- It's not just a list of
19 contents at the end. It's actually room by
20 room where they were, who they belonged to for
21 the most part.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. And so I have done that in not just
24 this case, but since this is the one we're
25 talking about, that's where we went with. If

116
1 you flip through, you eventually run into
2 contents list right in the middle of the
3 rooms.
4 Q. Right. Okay. I see that here.
5 Yes. So looking at this, if I go back -- I'll
6 tell you what. Why don't we, just so we make
7 sure we're all on the same page and the
8 deposition is understandable later, I will
9 probably want to mark -- start marking some
10 exhibits and have these as exhibits to the
11 depos. And that way, also I can leave them
12 with the Court Reporter and not have to carry
13 them home. But this will be Exhibit A or
14 Exhibit 1?
15 MR. ANDRY:
16 Why don't you just do -- For
17 Tanya Smith, we'll just do 1, 2, 3, 4,
18 and 5 with all the respective
19 exhibits, and then to the extent you
20 want to do photographs or other stuff
21 --
22 MR. MYER:
23 Okay.
24 MR. ANDRY:
25 -- you could do that 1-A, 1-B
117
1 and 1-C and that way, we'll have --
2 MR. MYER:
3 Okay.
4 MR. ANDRY:
5 The Tanya Smith being 1-A
6 throughout.
7 MR. MYER:
8 Perfect.
9 (Discussion off the record.)
10 MR. MYER:
11 I will write here Exhibit 1-A,
12 will be the lost report -- the
13 supplemental loss report and all of
14 the attachments.
16 Q. I take it this is a -- the
17 beginnings of it were an Xactimate run,
18 Xactimate printout and then you have added
19 some contents lists?
20 A. It's still all -- Everything is
21 still Xactimate. Everything is done from
22 within the program. That way it does the
23 calculating for you as well.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. It actually produces that second

118
1 page with all the summaries on it.
2 Q. Oh, okay. All right.
3 A. You know, I didn't enter those
4 figures. The program did.
5 Q. All right. So Exhibit 1-A will be
6 the Xactimate -- the loss report Xactimate run
7 for Tanya Smith's house.
8 A. You can call it loss report. That's
9 what it's titled, so we'll stick with that. I
10 usually call them an estimate. That's just
11 the title of the loss report. The estimate
12 itself starts on the third page.
13 Q. Right.
14 A. And that is the first page of the
15 estimate.
16 Q. Right.
17 A. With demographic information on it
18 and it proceeds into line items after that.
19 Q. Okay. The next question, you used
20 the word "estimate". What exactly is
21 estimated here?
22 A. Well, it is a refined educated
23 science, but it's still a -- it's more than
24 just science. It's a matter of subjective
25 estimating. I believe, no matter how good

119
1 your software there is, a subjectivity,
2 subjective nature to it.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. And so, therefore, it's an estimate
5 at that point. So that you're not being
6 inaccurate in describing it.
7 Q. I agree, and I didn't mean to
8 criticize the word or --
9 A. No.
10 Q. -- the word usage.
11 A. I am just describing what I mean by
12 it.
13 Q. But my question then was more
14 intended to ask what are you estimating? What
15 is the subject of the estimate? What
16 quantities are you quantifying in the
17 estimate?
18 A. Everything from the coverage -- the
19 physical damages to the loss of use damages
20 and additional living expense damages, or
21 monies out, and then contents damages as
22 well. So it's still an estimate because you
23 know that there are things that could be
24 included that you missed that weren't enough
25 to get in there. You just didn't have it.

120
1 There are a lot of times when stuff didn't
2 show up on the list and it just didn't get put
3 in there.
4 Q. Okay. As we talked about, or the
5 discussion we had about RCV and ACV and to try
6 to put it -- I know that in the run here,
7 there is a column for RCV and ACV, but in
8 every instance it seems they're equal.
9 A. And the reason for that is no
10 depreciation was taken because we didn't have
11 a policy form that was dictating that. That
12 would have changed the ACV. If we were using
13 depreciation factors, the ACV amount in that
14 column would have been less.
15 Q. Okay. I see. So the way the
16 program, the way Xactimate works, the
17 difference between RCV and ACV would be a
18 depreciation?
19 A. Pretty much, yes.
20 Q. Okay. As I go through this, and I
21 promise I won't go through it item by item,
22 but I do need the general categories of items,
23 if we look at page 2, it's actually page 4,
24 but it's labeled page 2 because it's page 2 of
25 the run without the estimate, --
121
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Yes. If we look at page 2, there is
3 -- there are looks like steps of construction
4 and construction items there. The dumpster
5 load, clean with pressure chemicals. So it
6 looks like what was entered there, what is
7 being estimated there is what it would cost to
8 do the demolition and the reconstruction to
9 reconstruct the main level of her home. The
10 beginning of that list at least?
11 A. What you'll find is if there is not
12 a specific room listed, then these are things
13 that are pervasive in the old estimate or that
14 don't have an attached room to put it to.
15 That will just be things that will have to
16 happen in order for the entire structure to be
17 handled. Now, they may not be throughout the
18 whole in some cases. You're going to do, you
19 know, the clean with pressure chemical very
20 heavy, it's going to be based on the square
21 footage of the floor -- of the footprint of
22 the entire structure. So that's how that's
23 calculated. So you use main levels for those
24 kinds of line items. When you have things
25 that are specific to a room, you put them in

122
1 there. I do. I put in them in a room if they
2 go there. I put them on a main level or even
3 under, for example, under the heading of not
4 even in a room, just by itself, at the
5 beginning I have ALE, you know, that kind of
6 thing because they don't fit in a room.
7 Q. Right. But overall what you're
8 doing is figuring, estimating the cost of
9 doing the repairs to the house. Doing all the
10 demolition and --
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. -- Reconstructing it back to what it
13 looked like on August 28, 2005.
15 Q. And, in fact, what this is, is you
16 have gone into the house, measured it,
17 identified all -- as best you could all the
18 fixtures, structures, electrical outlets,
19 components of the house and, using industry
20 standards and your knowledge as an adjustor
21 and the Xactimate program, figured what it
22 would cost to put it back together.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Or to deconstruct it and then to put
25 it back together.
123
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. Also, if we get to page 5,
3 you have a description of the contents of the
4 living room in this case.
6 Q. And each room is followed by a list
7 of the contents like this. And there are
8 attached figures which would be your estimate
9 of the replacement cost of those or --
10 A. Yes. That would be replacement
11 cost. Most -- Most of the time when we're
12 doing contents, we are -- we are giving them
13 replacement cost. In order for them to have
14 the same item, it may cost more than it did
15 before. But in some cases when you're working
16 off of a specific list that has the actual
17 prices on it, the homeowner doesn't know the
18 difference and they will end up writing down
19 what they paid for it and so they are giving
20 you ACV, you know, at that point or something
21 in between. A new cost two years ago is not
22 going to be a new cost today.
23 Q. That raises a question. The numbers
24 that are here, who generated those numbers?
25 A. The numbers on these lists are

124
1 generated by the homeowner and, therefore,
2 they were left extant because I surveyed them
3 and went through them and I found that they
4 seemed to be -- they seemed to be pretty much
5 in line with the kinds of things that I have
6 seen where we actually priced them out
7 directly. In fact, because they were listed
8 as purchase prices usually, then the prices I
9 look up are higher. Because they're not --
10 their current prices are going to be higher
11 than what they have got on there. So they are
12 giving us ACV numbers and I am defaulting to
13 those even though if I were to do a line by
14 line entering of those, rather than a survey
15 of their information and a questioning of them
16 on it, that I would -- I know my numbers would
17 end up being higher because I would have to
18 find new purchase prices on those.
19 Q. But, in fact, the numbers are --
20 and, in fact, I think we have over here, and
21 maybe make it --
22 A. Yeah, you have Tonya's list.
23 Q. Tonya's list. Yes. I have --
24 A. In some cases she even wrote, I
25 think, when they were -- some -- I think she

125
1 -- It was one of hers when she writing out
2 when they bought stuff. Or may have been the
3 Robinsons.
4 Q. Okay. Why don't we call that --
5 MR. MYER:
6 These are copies, Jon? I am not
7 taking your originals or anything to
8 --
9 MR. ANDRY:
10 No, let's make a copy of those.
11 But mark them to put them on there.
12 MR. MYER:
13 Yes. Do we have some stickys or
14 something so I can --
15 MR. ANDRY:
16 You can write in the upper
17 right-hand corner the exhibit numbers
18 themselves and then we can make a copy
19 here after the deposition.
20 MR. MYER:
21 So we'll make Exhibit 1-B will be
22 the list that Tonya prepared of the --
23 of her memory of the contents of each
24 room. And we'll make Exhibit 1-C --
126
1 Q. This is -- looks like just the
2 values listed, retabulated there.
3 A. Right. I didn't use that in any
4 way.
5 Q. Okay. Any idea who prepared that?
6 MR. ANDRY:
7 My secretary did.
8 MR. MYER:
9 Okay.
10 MR. ANDRY:
11 She totaled Tanya's -- That's the
12 total values Tonya put on her sheet,
13 which would be 1-B.
14 MR. MYER:
15 Okay.
17 Q. And these -- the values here -- I
18 know just off the top of things that the
19 contents total that Tonya came up when she
20 wrote the list on Exhibit 1-B seems to match
21 the contents total here --
22 A. Yes, it does.
23 Q. -- In your report. So, in fact, you
24 accepted her numbers line for line?
25 A. I did accept her numbers in this

127
1 case because I thought it was a pretty well
2 thought out list. And in my experience, when
3 a homeowner has -- is in a position like that
4 where they -- everything has been totally
5 decimated, destroyed, now gone, now missing,
6 now burned up, now whatever, they're in a
7 position where the insurance carrier's rarely
8 fight them, and that's my experience and
9 background, that says the same thing. If they
10 have got a detailed list like that and there's
11 nothing that jumps out at you, like, for
12 example, heavily ladened with the latest
13 electronics, something like that, then there's
14 no reason to challenge their integrity on
15 those things.
16 Q. So basically would I be properly
17 characterizing your treatment of this list to
18 say that you looked at it, nothing jumped out
19 at you as obviously overreaching, so no
20 specific item on the list did you run any
21 prices or --
22 A. Not on that one. Not on that one,
23 no.
24 Q. Okay. Then the --
25 A. And just to kind of give you a

128
1 guide, I think you probably picked up on it
2 already, the line item that I used for the
3 contents is listed before the actual list of
4 the contents. It's a total that's entered
5 into the estimate.
6 Q. And that's --
7 A. You will look on page 4, the last
8 item is actually -- It just happened to be
9 where the page break was. The last item is
10 the contents total.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. And the list to follow adds up to
13 that total.
14 Q. All right. Then there's also this
15 $143,000 number listed on page 56.
16 A. Which is a grand total. If you look
17 at 56, you are looking at a summary of the
18 different areas of coverage.
19 Q. Okay. I see.
20 A. The two pages before that will be A
21 and B, unless there's not a B. I guess there
22 is on this one.
23 Q. Yes.
24 A. Yes, there is. There sure is.
25 Q. Okay.
129
1 A. And you will notice that we don't
2 affix any profit and overhead to contents
3 because it doesn't apply. But it does on
4 dwelling and -- and other structures.
5 Q. The profit and overhead, whose
6 profit and whose overhead?
7 A. This is whoever they contracted with
8 to do the -- to do the work.
9 Q. So it's assumed that the contractor,
10 whoever it was, would take a 10 percent
11 overhead charge and a 10 percent profit to do
12 the work?
13 A. Yes. And that truly is a minimal
14 standard in the industry.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. And that is minimum. I don't know
17 that I have seen it any lower than that.
18 Q. Okay. Then I notice here the
19 tabulation at the bottom of the second page of
20 the whole thing, going back to the -- Sorry.
21 A. Back to here? I'm fine, whatever
22 you want to do.
23 Q. Back at the very beginning.
24 A. Yes, that's the general loss
25 statement that's extrapolated from the

130
1 estimate.
2 Q. Okay. Where does the 165,784 come
3 from?
4 A. The 16- -- Hang on. I'll get to
5 it.
6 Q. I find that again on page 54.
7 A. Right. That's the total of the
8 physical damages that are coverage A items.
9 In other words, the dwelling itself.
10 Q. Okay. So that is what it would cost
11 from what you could extrapolate back of what
12 the house would have looked like after Katrina
13 had passed, what it would have cost to hire a
14 contractor to do whatever demolition and
15 reconstruction it would take to put the shell
16 of the house, the physical structure of the
17 house back to the condition it was in before
18 Katrina passed?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Taking 10 percent overhead charge
21 and a 10 percent profit?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And -- Okay. Then "Other
24 structures"?
25 A. "Other structures" applies to

131
1 anything not physically attached to the house
2 that is anchored in the ground. That could be
3 a shed, a garage, it could be a number of
4 things. It could be a fence. These are
5 things that are attached to the property but
6 not to the house.
7 Q. Okay. And that would -- somewhere
8 in here would be a tabulation --
9 A. That could be a pool. You know, a
10 pool would fall into these categories as well.
11 Q. Did she have a pool?
12 A. Yes, she did.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. And there was some obvious damage to
15 that.
16 Q. Okay. And then that would -- That's
17 tabulated in here. Would that also include
18 the 10 percent overhead?
19 A. Yes, it also has a 10 percent
20 content overhead and profit.
21 Q. And contents, the 143,493, that
22 again is the same as her total on Exhibit 1-B?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And ALE loss of use of 44,400, that
25 came from --
132
1 A. That comes from a survey and from --
2 that I did with her.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. And actually got the information. I
5 asked her some questions as to -- some general
6 questions, because in some cases she only had
7 general information. She didn't keep receipts
8 on dry cleaning, for example. You know, that
9 kind of thing. But I put in what we talked
10 about. I said, "Did you go a lot?" You know,
11 I interviewed her, kind of like you are with
12 me, wanted to get the information so that I
13 could put it in there as -- as what -- based
14 on testimony and based on any documents she
15 did turn in, and then compared that against
16 the percentages that I usually come up with.
17 And it fell under. So I was good on that.
18 Q. Are there any components -- Do we
19 have anything that indicates the components?
20 I note on page 57 we just have a line item is
21 the 44,400. Is there any breakdown of where
22 it was?
23 A. The last page of this estimate has
24 that.
25 Q. Okay.
133
1 A. Look to the back, the back page.
2 Q. Oh, the very back.
3 A. Okay. The very back page.
4 Q. The very, very back page. Okay.
5 "Additional living expenses worksheet".
6 Okay.
7 A. This just breaks it into
8 categories. Because she didn't have the exact
9 things, I put the headings there and took
10 notes and then added them up, and those are
11 the numbers I came up with after adding it up.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. Adding things up in those
14 categories.
15 Q. Okay. So the housing, 21,600 would
16 be what?
17 A. That would be what it would normally
18 cost her for her mortgage, for taxes, for
19 whatever else she's paying for on that house
20 that are normal expenses; and then you compare
21 them against both all of those and the new
22 ones and that becomes the incurred expense.
23 Q. Okay. So she would have paid 21,600
24 for the mortgage and the costs of having the
25 house?
134
1 A. The mortgage, right. And then --
2 But to move out to the -- Now, this
3 incorporates moving expenses, you know, rental
4 of trucks and all kinds of things. So it gets
5 pretty expensive. If you -- A detailed
6 worksheet on that would have been pretty
7 expensive. If we'd had time to really get
8 into the nitty-gritty on every little issue,
9 it could have been quite cumbersome. But by
10 the time it all is said and done in the
11 interview, that was a fairly normal number to
12 come up with. Just a doubling of it is very
13 normal, because, if fact, it costs as much to
14 rent a new place and get into it as it did to
15 maintain your old one.
16 Q. In fact, looking at this, it is --
17 the incurred is exactly double of normal.
18 A. Right.
19 Q. Is that how it was calculated, you
20 just multiplied by two?
21 A. Not originally.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. But once I came close enough to it,
24 I said we're going to go with 50 percent. I
25 mean, 100 percent.

135
1 Q. 200 percent.
2 A. 200 percent.
3 Q. Yes. The $1,000 in temporary
4 housing receipts, where --
5 A. Those were -- It's not necessarily
6 receipts. It's just by, again by testimony.
7 She stayed in hotels or motels and had -- had
8 to incur those expenses. There were some
9 things that we looked at and she just said,
10 "You know, we had to be gone at times", and
11 that's -- you have to accept it on face value
12 or you don't if they don't give you something
13 for it.
14 Q. So no receipts or --
15 A. Not -- That -- That number is not
16 based on a receipt, no.
17 Q. Okay. It was based on a tabulation
18 or a delineation of what nights, what hotels,
19 what --
20 A. If she is telling me that she was
21 gone for two weeks, I -- basically if you're
22 spending $100 a night, you've got well beyond
23 that. What I tried to do is once I hit a
24 number that is normal and go past it, I -- and
25 I don't have a receipts, I try to draw back to

136
1 a number that's normal. That's why I hit 50
2 percent, or 200 percent on the first one, came
3 back to 200 percent and left it there.
4 Because if we're not working off of direct
5 receipts, but just the testimony of somebody
6 and what -- and the interview, then I need to
7 -- I need to draw back. I want to be
8 conservative about it, but be fair.
9 Q. All right. And all of these being
10 round numbers, it seems to me in all of these
11 cases that's what you were doing, was just
12 finding some percentage of what it had cost
13 before and saying "That sounds fair, we'll
14 give you a round number to say that's what it
15 cost"?
16 A. Well, in my experience of looking at
17 ALE numbers, this is where they usually end
18 up. You know, it's very common for them to
19 come up here. And then you take the total
20 after you finish coming up with those, with
21 each of those, and you look at it; and if it's
22 in the realm of normalcy, which it is, then --
23 Q. Right.
24 A. -- then you probably are in pretty
25 good shape.

137
1 Q. In the actuarial realm of what
2 insurers might expect to pay on a claim of
3 that sort?
4 A. Exactly.
5 Q. Okay. I know we have been provided
6 today with a large -- with a building permit
7 which I'll mark as Exhibit -- this would be
8 1-C now? 1-D. 1-D. And a large stack of
9 receipts which I'll mark as Exhibit 1-E, which
10 have been represented to me to be receipts of
11 Ms. Smith's for the rebuilding of her house
12 prior to that fire.
13 A. Right.
14 Q. You go through these?
15 A. Went through them and then
16 ultimately concluded that what she had
17 provided there was not going to take care of
18 everything, because there wasn't -- everything
19 wasn't included. And in some cases I felt
20 that the program that I had was a better one
21 than what the actual expenses she was turning
22 in on that was, because I know what it takes
23 to rebuild. I don't think she included a few
24 things as we went through it. And in some
25 cases it's heavy in some areas where they

138
1 completed a lot of receipt taking and in other
2 areas they left things out. There's not a lot
3 of finish things in there. There's basic
4 construction in there. There's a variety of
5 things in there, but it's not everything that
6 you need to build a house.
7 Q. Did you -- Okay. Did you make any
8 attempt to take any expense from in there and
9 incorporate it into your report?
10 A. Not on Smith's, no.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. Now, nothing -- because I felt like
13 what I had put together was actually going to
14 actually do the job versus just a pile of
15 receipts. There's no method in that. You
16 know, just actually saying and then trying to
17 work that receipt back into the building
18 program.
19 Q. Okay. But if you reached a point
20 where there was some item in your report for
21 which there was a receipt in this stack, you
22 didn't compare the costs as between what she
23 spent at Home Depot to what you had estimated
24 here?
25 A. It's apples and oranges is the

139
1 problem. Because she might have bought, for
2 example, a stack of lumber that goes into six
3 different projects that are represented on
4 different pages of my estimate. So if you
5 were to take that and -- for example, I could
6 take, you know, I have got 84 two-by-fours
7 that are used as studs to frame a house with,
8 if I turn around and I take that same 84
9 two-by-fours and try to fit them into one
10 room, it's not going to work because I don't
11 need 84 two-by-fours. I only need 18 in that
12 room and the others go somewhere else. They
13 go to a different part of the project. And so
14 constructing -- constructing an estimate from
15 that, from something like that after the fact,
16 virtually impossible.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. Virtually impossible. It's so far
19 different in terms of what you're looking at
20 there and what you're looking at here. I can
21 look at the numbers and see if somebody milked
22 her for money, but I can't -- I can't
23 reconstruct the house from some -- from a pile
24 of receipts. You know, maybe in -- in two
25 months of day and night just trying to rebuild

140
1 it from what I can see in those papers, but
2 that's -- that's a waste of everybody's time.
3 And not just time, but I don't think it's
4 going to be accurate even then because you're
5 still making subjective decisions. What was
6 that for, what was that for, was that
7 overhead, was that profit? What were they
8 doing there? And the whole point is, is that
9 what I use is a methodical method to go back
10 and put it together. And if the totals come
11 out anywhere close to the same, I am going to
12 trust mine more than I am a pile of receipts.
13 Q. All right. I think that's all I
14 need to ask you about Miss Smith. Let's see.
15 Oh, wait. And again, there was another one in
16 the original reports and I know we agreed that
17 all of these new ones supersede them, but just
18 to make absolutely sure, there was a little
19 report about valuation report there. That
20 superseded also?
21 A. Not necessarily superseded. It just
22 tells me if we're in the ballpark on the value
23 of the house based on square footages.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. Sometimes there's market conditions

141
1 that would affect that and it's not
2 necessarily calculated in there.
3 Q. Okay. But the estimated replacement
4 cost of 249,039 is not anything that you used
5 in coming up with the loss report?
6 A. No. Because, for example -- That's
7 for which house is it?
8 Q. Despaux.
9 A. So that's for -- that's for Tanya's.
10 Q. Right.
11 A. Tanya Smith's house. Yeah, the
12 replacement cost value on a square footage
13 issue alone puts it in excess of the coverage
14 A amount that I came up with. So I -- what I
15 do is I make sure that I am not in excess of
16 it, of the valuation report.
17 Q. Basically what this would be, the
18 249,039.33 listed there would be what it would
19 cost to build her house from ground up?
20 A. Yeah. Not just build it. Tear it
21 down, too. That means tear it down, demolish
22 it, haul everything off it and start fresh and
23 build a brand new one.
24 Q. But that number is not a -- that was
25 just used to verify -- to put you in a
142
1 ballpark? That wasn't used in --
2 A. Actually, you do use those numbers
3 at times when -- with a house is razed. So if
4 it's been be razed and it's completely --
5 completely demolished and just laying there in
6 a heap and there's -- and even the foundation
7 is -- if it's a concrete foundation, the
8 footing are all compromised, if you're in that
9 situation, that valuation report would be
10 where you would go as a more authoritative way
11 of going about it. You would actually make
12 sure your numbers, when you built it, came
13 closer to that.
14 Q. Okay. Let's look at the Franzes'
15 house next. And maybe we'll call it 2-A for
16 their loss report and the attached -- the
17 Xactimate run? Is that --
18 A. Very good.
19 Q. Yes. Essentially we have the same
20 thing here. The difference being you didn't
21 get a chance to identify -- or to interview
22 the Franzes and come up with a contents list?
23 A. Right.
24 Q. So in our little supplement down
25 here at the bottom of the second page, the
143
1 numbers, RCV and ACV for dwelling there would
2 be your estimates of what it would cost to
3 demolish and reconstruct the house to put it
4 back in the condition it was prior to Katrina?
5 A. With one qualifier, in that the --
6 even though I recommended based on what I saw
7 that they start over with this house.
8 Q. Right.
9 A. That's not -- That wasn't my job to
10 do that. Because, again, engineering comes
11 into that as to whether it's structurally
12 compromised.
13 Q. Right.
14 A. I thought it was. And if I were to
15 do -- if it were mine, that's exactly what I
16 would do. I would tear it down and start all
17 over. But I was putting it back like it was
18 with the idea that I've got to work with what
19 I've got to work with. So, no, I didn't tear
20 the whole thing down in this estimate and
21 build it back. I assessed the damages as they
22 were visible and went with that.
23 Q. Yes. Would it cost more or less to
24 tear it down and start over?
25 A. Honestly, tech- -- it usually costs

144
1 less to tear the whole thing down when it gets
2 to this level. It's probably -- Well, I say
3 less. It depends on what you did with it. If
4 you put it back exactly like it was, the
5 evaluation report would certainly be upwards
6 of 300,000 or more because of the size of the
7 structure and the nature of it. It's four --
8 It could be up to a four family dwelling the
9 way it was built, with the entrances available
10 for all -- all sections.
11 Q. You say in the initial report, and I
12 suppose the language is still in here since
13 we're only -- "The home of Anthony and Lucille
14 Franz suffered catastrophic loss following
15 storm sequence events on or about August 29th,
16 2005. The loss was so severe as to require
17 demolition."
18 A. In my opinion. I probably should
19 have qualified that to say "in my opinion".
20 Q. So in terms borrowed from an
21 automobile claim, the house was totaled?
22 A. I would say so, in my opinion.
23 Q. Okay. And you state further down
24 "Work would easily take six to eight months
25 and would not be cost effective".
145
1 A. Exactly. Based on just what we just
2 talked about, the fact that it takes longer
3 and more arduous work to tear -- to begin to
4 try to work with something that's not stable
5 and it's -- it's beginning -- you really are
6 struggling with space issues, you're trying to
7 work within damaged and undamaged areas, and
8 it's much more time consuming. And the damage
9 was just everywhere in that place.
10 Q. But that latter scenario, that it's
11 more time consuming and more expensive is the
12 one that you estimated here?
13 A. Not entirely.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. Now, remember that my -- I did not
16 change this one at all in terms of the -- I
17 was pretty limited to what I put in here, in
18 that I wanted to make sure what I was doing
19 was only rising water issues that had to do
20 with this. And not with possible wind -- wind
21 issues at the same time. Because wind issues
22 would have taken -- I believe, if I look back,
23 I am just trying to -- You have to give me a
24 second. Because even I forget some of the
25 details of these things after I have not

146
1 looked at them for a little while.
2 I am not sure -- What I saw -- And
3 it's possible that based on what I did that it
4 could come up -- Yeah, I did do the roof on
5 this one. Because oftentimes I won't do a
6 roof if it's just rising water issue because
7 of the fact that the water didn't get on the
8 roof from the rising water. It came on from
9 other reasons. But there was such a severe
10 collapse that the structure of the roof
11 actually fell apart in this case and walls
12 were coming apart that I observed inside and
13 we had -- we had sagging timbers and that kind
14 of thing. And once that happens, the roof
15 itself gets breached. And then you're in a
16 position where everything was still as the
17 same cause, the rising water that compromised
18 the structure of the house had -- had
19 consequences that far out-reached its levels,
20 its rising levels.
21 Q. So basically there wasn't any --
22 there weren't any damages that you judged to
23 be wind rather than water. In this instance,
24 you said this all came from the rising water,
25 so what we have here is the cost to take the
147
1 house as it was -- as it is now, do what -- do
2 the demolition and reconstruction needed to
3 put it back in the condition it was prior to
4 Katrina?
5 A. I did. I did pretty much that. But
6 if you look at the -- look at one of the
7 rooms, for example, and I will kind of give
8 you a clue as to how to look at the actual
9 physical damage portion of it.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. If you look at, say, for example --
12 let's get to any of the interior rooms that
13 you want to look at. Bedroom 1 on page 5, for
14 example.
15 Q. Okay. Got it.
16 A. So we're right there. If you walked
17 down this list of items that are in there,
18 this has to do with cosmetic damage mostly,
19 not so much structural. It does include
20 wiring. Since the entire electrical system
21 was compromised in the house, and it was
22 broken in places, you could observe that as
23 you go through, things were just coming
24 apart. But as -- and plus we've never been
25 able to successfully get an electrician to

148
1 agree to repair wiring that has been under
2 water. So they just won't -- they will not
3 certify it at all. So we're in a position
4 like that. Because part of the problem is,
5 it's one thing for it to get wet. Because a
6 quickly rising water that dissipates quickly.
7 It's another thing altogether when water comes
8 in and stays. Because then it actually
9 encroaches areas that would normally not have
10 been susceptible to just casual water. There
11 are things like the electrical systems in
12 houses, they become totally compromised at
13 that point because insulation is only so
14 impervious to constant submerging, you know,
15 and there's not just that. There's the level
16 of -- the level of wood rot that occurs when
17 timbers and beams and wall parts and framing
18 come under -- come under the kind of constant
19 exposure to the water that they become totally
20 saturated and then dry-rot later. So they are
21 compromised. And even so, I presumed the
22 least on this one. And the reason I did is
23 because the value of the home overall was
24 probably exceeded by the repairs themselves
25 before I even got finished. Long before I got

149
1 finished. Plaster costs an enormous amount to
2 replace in today's market. And this entire
3 home was not only plaster, but Venetian
4 plaster, which meant it had stamped pattern
5 all through it. It had coffered ceilings in
6 many of the rooms. There is a very ornate
7 technique involved in doing some of that.
8 That whoever originally built it, you know, it
9 was a craftsman, a plaster craftsman that did
10 a great job with it. And, of course, you
11 know, it's aged and everything, but if you're
12 going to put it in like kind and quality, you
13 have to put plaster back and let a craftsman
14 come in and do it again. So the problem is
15 that by the time we even did the plaster work,
16 we were reaching the value of the home in
17 today's market. So we went so far beyond what
18 it would cost, it was -- it was kind of a rule
19 of thumb with the adjusting in general; when
20 you reach the value of a home, at some point
21 you have to say, you know, why do we continue
22 to write more damages? You know, you'll find,
23 for example, I have left out a lot of the
24 supplemental items in the Franz home because
25 we could get them in a nice -- a nice home for

150
1 -- for a pretty good amount of money less
2 than what eventually I'd arrive at with this.
3 Because I could easily see the damages pushing
4 the $300,000, $400,000, $500,000 mark when you
5 are putting plaster in every room, when you're
6 adding solid wood doors that are paneled in
7 all the rooms, and when you're doing hardwood
8 floors, a pretty good grade of oak and all of
9 the things that are involved in that, plus the
10 -- plus the -- there was just -- You know, as
11 I started to go back through it, you know, I
12 left out a lot of stuff in here. Double hung
13 wooden sash windows with pulley systems. You
14 can't even buy them now, you know. The kinds
15 of things that were in there are impossible to
16 buy. And the only time that I was -- that I
17 was in a position where I had to follow that
18 through to the letter was when I was doing
19 historic homes that had to maintain the level
20 that they were. And in that case, this is a
21 similar situation in the materials that are
22 there, but it's not in the sense that they
23 demand that it has to be put back exactly like
24 it was. But then the price really escalates.
25 And something that could have been a $20,000

151
1 or $30,000 loss turns into a $300,000 loss
2 because you have to use original materials.
3 You have to find, for example, cedar for your
4 shutters or you have to find whatever it is
5 that they used in old, if it's ash or, you
6 know, different things. The things that are
7 being used -- the materials have to be the
8 same. Well, if we really did that by the
9 letter of the law and made -- and put them
10 back like they were, these people would be
11 getting hundreds of thousands of dollars for
12 that house. And I listened to those
13 transcripts -- I mean, I didn't listen to
14 them. I read them on his deposition and I
15 thought these are very humble people. They
16 just lost their lives in this -- in this
17 tragedy. They haven't yet been back to the
18 house as far as I know. And they -- they were
19 devastated. So I -- I used discretion. I
20 wrote this to a point that I said, if they
21 recover those damages that I have put in
22 there, they will be able to have something
23 that they can be proud of again. I had to
24 stop, you know. I could have continued for ad
25 nauseum with this one and written and written

152
1 and written items into this that would have
2 just boggled the mind and still not have been
3 unfair in terms of putting them back like they
4 were with original kind of materials.
5 Q. Okay. The number for contents is
6 $120,000. Where does that come from?
7 A. That comes from a combination of the
8 square footages that we're dealing with, the
9 fact that when I was in there, every room was
10 crammed full of possessions. It still was
11 completely full of things. If you look at the
12 square footage, there's a lot of feet in this
13 house by the time you get both upstairs and
14 downstairs. And four different units that are
15 fully furnished and everything is ruined in
16 every unit? That's an easy number to come
17 to. Based on percentages. But also looking
18 not just at percentages, but you can take one
19 sampling and start building a list for even
20 one room and start multiplying and, based on
21 the photos that I have and the ones that were
22 provided also, you know, there's a lot of
23 photos that show these rooms were rife with
24 possessions that just were completely
25 destroyed. There were some antiques that I

153
1 looked at, you know, a lot of furniture in
2 there that had been around a long time. It
3 looked horrible now, but it might have been
4 really, really nice stuff at some point. And
5 again, what do you do with that? How do you
6 value antiques? You know, there is
7 sentimental value attached to it as well as
8 auction value and assessed values and
9 appraised values on these items that we could
10 go into a lot of detail on and still be
11 under-shooting it. So I feel very comfortable
12 that that number is not going to be something
13 that is unreasonable for refurbishing four
14 units basically.
15 Q. But it is based sort of on your
16 discretion, not on any --
17 A. Yes, it is.
18 Q. -- any value of any particular item?
19 A. Predicated by my dialogue just a
20 moment ago, or monologue about the whole issue
21 of this -- this property in general.
22 Q. Okay. And then the last page of the
23 entire thing, the 39,300 is broken down as the
24 ALEs?
25 A. It's basically the same thing. And

154
1 again, I reduced that one because I knew that
2 he had made arrangements in some ways to take
3 care of some things on his own and he wasn't
4 -- there weren't as many actual expenses that
5 he incurred as some of the others. But still,
6 for a year, and I think we're in the 30 --
7 less than $40,000 range.
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. That's not an unreasonable amount by
10 any means.
11 Q. But again, it was nice round
12 numbers; it's just another one of those --
13 A. Exactly.
14 Q. -- sort of things he didn't present
15 you receipts or actual dates or anything like
16 that?
17 A. I'm sure you read his deposition,
18 too, and you know he's getting up there, you
19 know.
20 Q. Right.
21 A. And it's -- I just can't imagine him
22 being prepared to think about receipts and
23 everything that every time he went to the
24 grocery store, you know.
25 Q. There is an inventory list here
155
1 provided for the Franzes.
2 A. Right. But that was not available
3 to me at all --
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. -- at any point. And again, I -- I
6 was very curious only after the fact to find
7 out that they even came up with one. Because
8 it was -- It probably is very incomplete, I
9 would think. He probably listed his favorite
10 items, you know.
11 Q. Yes. We'll mark it as an exhibit.
12 2-B.
13 And lastly, there are some, looks
14 like some checks and receipts. Were those
15 available to you?
16 A. No. Those were not available to
17 me. But again, my venue is not to determine
18 what they have received, but what they were
19 due. And so on that end of the bookkeeping,
20 that's not my area.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. It's just not a consideration that I
23 take into account at this point.
24 Q. Okay. Any idea what these are?
25 A. I can look at them and tell you.

156
1 Q. One of them is a bank --
2 A. Looks to me like he's just
3 indicating that he got -- maybe got -- he must
4 have received an insurance payment. It's just
5 a ledger balance there. That's all I can see.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. No, I have no idea. A Dutch oven.
8 You know, that's an ALE kind of thing. These
9 are -- No, they had to buy some way to cook
10 something.
11 Q. But these weren't the basis of any
12 --
13 A. No, I didn't have these at all. And
14 again, it looks like they were given vouchers
15 for certain items, you know.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. I mean, they were trying to be
18 thorough, in showing you what they got, it
19 looks like.
20 Q. All right.
21 A. But at the same time, that has no
22 bearing on what they're due in terms of I am
23 looking at it from an origination standpoint,
24 not an accounting standpoint coming back and
25 balancing a ledger. This is what they

157
1 received, this is what they were due.
2 Q. Okay. We'll make it Exhibit 2-C and
3 move on.
4 Let's see. The 1s, the 2s.
5 Moving on to the Robinsons.
6 Oh, that's the pictures of the
7 Franzes, I guess (indicating).
8 A. Right.
9 Q. Where did I put the Robinson's
10 report? What have I done here? Did I put
11 them in here? What did I do? The
12 supplemental report that I had for the
13 Robinsons, where did that go? Is that --
14 MR. ANDRY:
15 Do you have a copy he could use
16 and mark?
17 THE WITNESS:
18 You can use this one.
20 Q. Okay. Maybe it's in here.
21 MR. ANDRY:
22 Make sure it's the right one.
24 Q. Yes. Yes. No, it's not in here.
25 That's the old one. I know you gave it to
158
1 me.
2 I'll use this one.
3 A. That's fine. We should be able to
4 recite most of that.
5 Q. Yes. And again, I am just going to
6 be asking the same generalized questions and
7 this is pretty much the same kind of thing,
8 the same thing you did with Tanya Smith's.
9 A. Smith and Robinson are very similar
10 in approach.
11 Q. Yes.
12 A. A lot of discussion, a lot of
13 collaborating, some after the fact.
14 Q. So again, just the -- looking
15 through this, again, what we have is an
16 Xactimate run that estimates the cost of
17 demolishing and reconstructing, doing
18 selective demolition as required --
19 A. Exactly.
20 Q. -- and reconstructing the house on
21 Mayo to the condition it was in before
22 Hurricane Katrina.
23 A. Right.
24 Q. And that would -- the dwelling, the
25 234,251.72 would be from the back of the
159
1 Xactimate run back here which would be for the
2 structure itself.
4 Q. Other structures would be structures
5 on the property that were not attached to the
6 house?
7 A. Right. Which they have some of
8 those.
9 Q. Contents, again, did you have a -- I
10 think they had --
11 A. They did provide a detailed list.
12 Q. All right. And again, --
13 A. And again, I inserted room by room
14 into the -- into the estimate. And that's one
15 of the reasons it took so much collaboration,
16 because this house was actually sold prior to
17 our arrival on the scene and we were unable to
18 access the interior. And so we had to
19 basically get the number of rooms and the
20 basic sizes of the rooms from them and then
21 take my external measurements and make sure
22 that it all fit inside the house.
23 Q. Right.
24 A. And once they fit in there, you know
25 that your square footage, while one room may

160
1 end up being bigger than it's supposed to be,
2 the next one is going to be smaller.
3 Q. Right.
4 A. They end up ultimately -- if I have
5 the same number of rooms, then I'll have the
6 same square footage of walls.
7 Q. Right.
8 A. And that kind of thing.
9 Q. One slight glitch. On the inventory
10 here, and maybe there's another inventory that
11 I am missing, the numbers on Tanya Smith's,
12 the numbers matched up. Here the inventory
13 they gave seemed -- 96,143 and your contents
14 is 93,543. Was there --
15 A. I found some things that didn't
16 belong --
17 Q. Oh.
18 A. -- in the list and I removed them
19 from my estimate because they just don't
20 belong.
21 Q. What exactly were they? Do you
22 recall?
23 A. Well, they included tile flooring in
24 a couple of rooms and those are not contents
25 issues. Those are structural issues and they

161
1 were already accounted for in my estimate.
2 Q. Ah, okay. Do you recall where?
3 A. I don't know where they are in the
4 original list.
5 Q. But it was flooring and --
6 A. That's the only thing I can recall
7 finding that I didn't agree with. And it
8 wasn't that it wasn't a valid thing. It just
9 didn't belong in the contents list.
10 Q. Right. Exactly. And again, there
11 -- the values listed here were listed by the
12 Robinsons?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And you did a generalized look to
15 see whether anything jumped out at you as --
16 A. Exorbitant or it didn't belong.
17 Hence, the tile discovery.
18 Q. Right. But other than that, you
19 accepted their representations as to values?
20 A. Right. And again, I saw nothing
21 that looked like it was beyond normal on the
22 values.
23 Q. Okay. I'll mark this as Exhibit 3-A
24 and Exhibit 3-B.
25 MR. ANDRY:
162
1 A is the Xactimate report and B
2 is the contents list from the clients;
3 correct?
4 MR. MYER:
5 Yes. Yes, it is.
7 Q. And then looking at the ALE loss of
8 use --
9 A. The same approach.
10 Q. The same approach?
11 A. I was on the phone with them, went
12 through the different issues. I couldn't -- I
13 verified the numbers and if it didn't -- if it
14 looked like it was over -- over 50 -- 200
15 percent on the rent, for example, then I came
16 back down to 200 percent. Trying to make sure
17 I wasn't exorbitant on any of the numbers.
18 And then when the total was reached, find that
19 it's, you know, at a 200 and something
20 thousand dollar policy, 250 I think it was, I
21 don't recall -- I never actually saw the
22 policy, but I think I asked them at some point
23 what kind of coverage they had.
24 Q. The difference in transportation,
25 200 percent on the transportation --
163
1 A. Right.
2 Q. -- essentially?
3 A. That's fairly normal if they're
4 moving about a lot and you have got both --
5 both -- both the husband and the wife in a
6 professional capacity.
7 Q. Because they just have to drive
8 further?
9 A. They're driving further. They're
10 having more wear and tear. Their mileage
11 alone would eat that up pretty quick.
12 Especially if they're working out of town,
13 moving back and forth in town and constantly
14 on the go, which, the more jobs in the house,
15 the higher that gets. The greater the
16 disparity between the original and the --
17 Q. Is there some mileage allowance that
18 you give for ALE?
19 A. You started calculating at 58 and a
20 half cents a mile and work from there. And if
21 you do it that way, it almost always balances
22 the same thing as actual vehicle expenses.
23 Unless they bought a new car.
24 Q. Okay. Let's see. Here we have
25 something from the Robinsons, looks like ALE
164
1 expenses. These -- Some receipts from BMW.
2 Looks like car repairs.
3 A. Right. I mean, you can go two
4 routes with it. You can go with the mileage
5 or you can go with physical expenses. And
6 those become actual expenses versus the normal
7 expenses. And so that entire bill would be
8 added to the ALE portion.
9 Q. Okay. But, in fact, you went with
10 just the 200 percent and these really aren't
11 the basis of --
12 A. Not the basis of what I did, because
13 when I added them up, I found that they were
14 missing so many things that it wasn't going to
15 be -- it wasn't -- There were many things on
16 my checklist that weren't in their list that
17 weren't even addressed, so I just walked
18 through, rather, with them on the phone and
19 walked through these issues.
20 Q. Here are some receipts and customer
21 copies of looks like Furniture and Interiors.
22 Is this -- This seems to be contents receipts
23 sort of?
24 A. That would be refurbishing contents,
25 yes. And those --

165
1 Q. Refurbishing contents?
2 A. Either replacing or refurbishing.
3 You know, or even in some cases -- and again,
4 you have to discern whether this is an ALE
5 issue, because they had to have a couch to
6 live in -- to sit down on in this new place
7 that they got or was it a contents from the
8 old place that you're dealing with there.
9 Q. Did you go through these?
10 A. I read through the entire stack,
11 looked at them, and again, concluded that
12 pairing them up accurately, I was going to
13 come under what their actual expenses were in
14 either side, no matter how I did it.
15 Q. So after examining this, you didn't
16 use any numbers or --
17 A. No.
18 Q. -- concept out of here?
19 A. Not on that. Because generally
20 those -- some of those things will be listed
21 on the contents page. You can actually find
22 them.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. But in other cases they're not on
25 there. So that tells you what? That they had

166
1 to buy to -- in order to stay where they're
2 staying or for whatever other purpose they had
3 to get it.
4 Q. And this appears to be --
5 A. Somebody else's estimate.
6 Q. Someone else's estimate.
7 A. And I made -- As I told you earlier,
8 I make it a habit not to use that as a basis
9 of anything. Just because that is somebody
10 else's estimate, not mine. And their approach
11 is going to be different, their standards are
12 going to be different, and there is some
13 subjectivity in the way they did the approach.
14 Q. I won't even mark that at all if you
15 didn't use it at all.
16 Then I guess we're down to then
17 Mr. Lattimore. Mr. Lattimore lived in the
18 mobile home.
19 VIDEO OPERATOR:
20 Excuse me. Can we go off the
21 record to change tapes?
22 MR. MYER:
23 Sure.
24 VIDEO OPERATOR:
25 This is the end of tape 3. We're
167
1 going off the record.
2 (Recess.)
3 VIDEO OPERATOR:
5 We're now back on the record.
7 Q. All right. To talk about Kent
8 Lattimore's home, the mobile home --
10 Q. -- in which he lived. You would
11 have seen Mr. Lattimore's home, if we look at
12 the dates on the pictures, on February 26,
13 2008?
14 A. That's probably true, yes.
15 Q. Yes. And, in fact, when you got
16 there, there was a FEMA trailer park there and
17 FEMA trailers there.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. One question I have, house trailers
20 are notoriously susceptible to damage or
21 destruction by high winds. Is there anything
22 that you know that leads you to conclude that
23 the trailer survived Katrina's winds?
24 A. Just the testimony of the homeowner,
25 of the Lattimores. I did talk with him and he

168
1 basically described the trailer in detail and
2 that it was full of water and that he just had
3 to leave it and eventually they hauled it off.
4 Q. The trailer was still there after
5 the storm?
6 A. After the storm, yes.
7 Q. All right. Looking at the report
8 you have done here, and this is the new
9 supplemental report, --
11 Q. -- again, the supplement at the
12 bottom, supplement to the original report
13 2/4/09 on page 2 there, we'll mark this, what,
14 this will be 4-A, those are your updated
15 numbers which would supersede the numbers
16 earlier in the report, I take it?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. Looking at that, the number dwelling
19 -- the number for dwelling, $94,065.96, that
20 would be derived from the attached Xactimate
21 run of what it would cost to -- I don't know,
22 would this be what it would cost to build a
23 trailer like --
24 A. Basically that's what it's doing.
25 But it's also confirmed with -- and there

169
1 should have been other reports that went with
2 that, some NADA information and that kind of
3 thing that I compiled to go with it to verify
4 typical approaches to mobile homes. They're a
5 little different. They're not built the same
6 way. They don't use the same kind of thing.
7 And when you -- when you do a mobile home
8 report, you need to have a square footage
9 approach if you're going to use Xactimate to
10 do it unless you have the -- you just
11 basically do that because they tell you what
12 it's worth based on square footage. You look
13 it up in NADA and you do some things like
14 that, and you can't use the same standards
15 because they don't use the same materials,
16 they're not -- they're not the same quality
17 materials. By the time you the get done with
18 the mobile home, its value is much lower than
19 the -- than a comparable permanent structure.
20 Q. Okay. The number here in the
21 supplemental report of 94,065.96 would be when
22 you enter the room by room, it looks like, I
23 am trying to put this together -- Well, what
24 does that 94,000 represent?
25 A. Hang on a second. I haven't looked

170
1 at this one in so long because this wasn't a
2 -- I'll go back to where the 82 came from.
3 Hang on a second. Hang on a second.
4 Q. Now, on page 3, I get an area
5 dwelling total is the 82,262.35.
6 A. Right. I am looking. I am trying
7 to discern it right now.
8 Ah, I see what it is. Those are
9 -- The report is inaccurate. We've added
10 dwelling and contents together in -- in -- The
11 contents list was added to the dwelling list
12 and both logged under "dwelling".
13 Q. Oh, okay.
14 A. And it became an 85 instead of a 45.
15 Q. Okay. So that should be --
16 A. Or under there. It's just the
17 numbers --
18 Q. -- 42,262.35?
19 A. It should be. You're exactly right,
20 it should be.
21 Q. Okay. And that -- there's -- there
22 was a --
23 A. So there's a discrepancy in the way
24 that it tabulated it, and that was just an
25 error.

171
1 MR. ANDRY:
2 Where is that specifically for
3 purposes of the record? What page is
4 that on?
5 THE WITNESS:
6 That is on -- Well, it's actually
7 throughout it, but I see where it --
8 what it did. It calculated it as --
9 all as -- it calculated everything as
10 dwelling instead of breaking it down.
12 Q. Yes, the goof first appears on page
13 2 there where it runs --
14 A. And it just runs through it. Once
15 it's there, it goes through it, you know. So
16 there is a goof there.
17 Q. Yes. So the dwelling total should
18 be 40,000 all the way through, and when we get
19 back to page 5 and -- on page 5 there's a 9
20 percent materials sales tax and 10 percent
21 overhead and 10 percent profit added for the
22 -- that should have been added to the --
23 A. It probably -- the 10 and 10 would
24 be somewhat modified based on what we talked
25 about already.

172
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. Because if it's ALE and loss -- and
3 contents, then the 10 and 10 doesn't apply.
4 So, you know -- and I don't know what to do in
5 a situation like this where it was just an
6 error in the calculation.
7 Q. Okay. Tell me, if we looked at the
8 older report, and I'll make that Exhibit 4-B
9 --
10 A. I'm not sure how that ended up
11 happening, because I didn't remember making
12 any changes to that.
13 Q. The 42,262.35 is listed as the
14 physical structure on the older report.
16 Q. And that was what Xactimate came up
17 with when you entered the size --
18 A. Exactly.
19 Q. -- of the home?
20 A. And it's still in here, but it was
21 also added again to something else as well.
22 Q. Okay. But what that represents is
23 Xactimate's calculation of -- if you had taken
24 the damaged mobile home that Mr. Lattimore
25 found when he came back from his cruise after
173
1 Katrina --
3 Q. -- and done the demolition and
4 reconstruction to put --
5 A. Exactly.
6 Q. -- that damaged mobile home back in
7 like new condition.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. We may want to stipulate that this
11 is the more accurate one (indicating). The
12 original one. Because there was -- it was
13 just a -- somehow a data entry thing when this
14 was reproduced ended up putting everything --
15 doubling up on everything.
16 MR. ANDRY:
17 We should go by 4-B if the
18 amounts are specific and the program
19 confused the amounts in 4-A. 4-B
20 being the initial report on Mr.
21 Lattimore's dwelling on Marcel Drive.
22 MR. MYER:
23 Right. Okay.
25 Q. I would like to also -- I've got
174
1 these stapled together. I'm going to tear
2 these off the back.
3 A. I don't have that one available at
4 all in front of me.
5 Q. This was something that was provided
6 with your original report.
7 A. Yeah, I did that originally and I
8 have it all in my records, but I didn't bring
9 any of that.
10 Q. I'll designate it as Exhibit 4-C,
11 though, because if I read these -- the four
12 pages of what we're now calling Exhibit 4-C
13 properly, this seems to indicate that in
14 February of 2008 when -- at about the time you
15 were visiting his site, there were two mobile
16 homes slightly larger than the one Mr.
17 Lattimore had been living in for sale for
18 $40,000 and $22,000 in southern Louisiana.
19 A. And remember, though, when you're
20 talking about this, this would be an ACV
21 approach.
22 Q. Right.
23 A. That's what this is.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. But those are benchmarks that I used

175
1 that I make sure we don't go below that --
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. -- more than we got to stay under
4 that.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. And the reason for that is if I go
7 below that, then it's impossible for them to
8 be remunerated in any way. I can't do that
9 without --
10 Q. Okay. But in fact, Mr. Lattimore
11 was living in a used mobile home slightly
12 smaller than these.
13 A. Slightly smaller, yes.
14 Q. Okay. And he hasn't replaced the
15 mobile home?
16 A. Well, it's gone. There's no -- You
17 can't replace it. There's a FEMA park there,
18 you know.
19 Q. But he hasn't bought any other
20 mobile home, any other dwelling of any sort?
21 A. I have no idea. Again, that's
22 outside of my realm.
23 Q. Okay. The next one, I am going to
24 take these four pages and mark them as Exhibit
25 4-D. And these seem to be some sort of market
176
1 research --
2 A. Right.
3 Q. -- compilations which seem to
4 indicate to me that there were also -- that
5 there was a statistical compilation showing
6 that a newly manufactured mobile home
7 characterized as a single as Mr. Lattimore's
8 was could be purchased in Louisiana for 30,600
9 by one study and by the other for something
10 between $32,736 in what that study generalizes
11 as the south. Do I get that right?
12 A. Right. And it basically -- This is
13 just documentation to show what some surveys
14 have done on sale prices. Now, these are
15 sales prices, not necessarily -- I mean, if
16 you look at the dates on them and the latest
17 one was from 2007. So that was the latest we
18 could come up with on this statistic.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. And this is, by -- this was done as
21 far back as 2000. So when we look at that,
22 this is just to give, again, a minimum
23 benchmark. And the pricing that Xactimate
24 would use for the square footage in that is
25 something that is market research much more

177
1 contemporary. Because Xactimate pricing is
2 quarterly updated. So every -- every three
3 months there's a new update on the same
4 products.
5 Q. But regardless of what Xactimate
6 tells us, there were two mobile homes for sale
7 in southern Louisiana for 20,000 and 22,000?
8 A. Yes, there were. And that's an ACV
9 benchmark, again. But that's never the goal
10 of someone trying to put someone back like
11 they were, to find ACV, put them back like
12 they were, meaning find the exact same thing
13 and make it at least as good or better than
14 what they had. We don't know the extent of
15 the -- of the appointments on that trailer by
16 any means because it was not there to
17 observe. We do know certain things about it
18 based on just the interviews, you know, and I
19 think I pretty well documented what I found
20 out about it. But the idea is if we're going
21 to buy them something that we don't cheat them
22 on, then I want to make sure that I am -- that
23 I have shown you what the very bare minimums
24 are going to be. And as far as I can tell,
25 the minimum on this one in particular, which

178
1 is the most current that I was able to
2 discover pricing on, was in 2007, that allowed
3 us to basically go back and say, okay, it's
4 going to be in the 30 -- 30 to 40 dollar range
5 -- $30,000 to $40,000 range for that home in
6 2007. And if it's higher now, then -- and it
7 probably would have been, considering the fact
8 that so many people were relocating in mobile
9 homes in this area. If they're buying new
10 ones, you know. It was -- It was just a
11 question of what's the best estimate we can
12 come up with for what it's going to take to
13 put them in the same thing.
14 Q. But in finding the $20,000 sales
15 price for a home, the $30,000 average price
16 for a brand new one in the Gulf south, and the
17 number, the 42,262 number that Xactimate gave
18 you, you chose the 42,262.35?
19 A. Absolutely. I trust the numbers and
20 the research and the pricing lists much better
21 in Xactimate than I do -- because if you've
22 got a quarterly update, it takes in market
23 analysis that's up to the last three months,
24 you know, versus this is somebody desperate to
25 move on and get out of town and wants to sell

179
1 their trailer, you know, out in Timbuktu. You
2 notice where it is, too. That's the closest
3 we could find comps, and that was in Houma.
4 You know, Houma is not a -- is not New
5 Orleans.
6 Q. If we look at the personal property
7 contents, let me see how that -- in -- does
8 that differ between 4-A and 4-B? Let's see.
9 A. I would -- Because of the way that
10 it calculated the numbers here, it really
11 convoluted the whole --
12 Q. Yes. We put so many descriptions.
13 It looks like we get -- in 4-B, they were
14 collected in one place; the 45,000 was all
15 collected on page 3. Wait a minute. Here it
16 is. It's all collected on pages 3 through 4
17 in 4-A.
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. That's the full $45,000. And I take
20 it that list there is in both reports?
21 A. Apparently it's added them together.
22 It's done some adding --
23 Q. Right.
24 A. -- of things together. So the -- It
25 was just a -- I am not sure what happened, a

180
1 glitch that happened when it did it. If I
2 opened it up and reprinted it again, it would
3 probably print it out with the right things.
4 So I don't know what happened.
5 Q. Well, see, we have one, two, three,
6 four -- just looking, we have six items there,
7 a gun collection, a Rolex watch, a pirogue, a
8 jewelry box with --
9 A. Yes, I looked that up to see what it
10 was and it was -- I don't even remember now.
11 Q. A pirogue is a boat.
12 A. Oh, okay. I just couldn't remember
13 what it was.
14 Q. Okay.
15 MR. ANDRY:
16 You are a Texas guy. No, pirogue
17 is a duck hunting -- it's a boat they
18 use to go duck hunting.
19 THE WITNESS:
20 Okay.
22 Q. Diving equipment and reloading
23 equipment. And there are numbers attached.
24 The gun collection is valued at $10,000; the
25 Rolex watch at 4,500; the boat's at 4,500; the
181
1 jewelry box at 6,000; the diving equipment at
2 10,000; the reloading equipment, 10,000.
3 Where did those numbers come from?
4 A. Those were numbers given directly to
5 me by Mr. Lattimore.
6 Q. What, if anything, did you do to
7 verify the validity of those numbers?
8 A. I just questioned him on it and he
9 insisted everything was as was and that those
10 were accurate numbers on them. And there
11 wasn't any way -- because he didn't have a
12 precise list of what guns were in the
13 collection, you can't look them up. So that
14 was -- It's only on pure testimony. And the
15 jewelry box, the same thing. You know, what
16 exactly kind of ring and what --
17 Q. What was the ring? What did he tell
18 you about that?
19 A. I don't recall any more.
20 Q. And on -- let's see, on 4-B we have
21 ALEs of $40,000. On 4-A, we have amended that
22 to 38,600. And if I look at the back that we
23 have another listing there, it looks like,
24 again, in this case for housing, we gave him a
25 300 percent on housing.
182
1 A. At the time of -- of the storm, he
2 did not move back into the mobile home and, of
3 course, it costs a lot more to be in a house.
4 Q. In fact, as I recall his deposition,
5 he was sleeping on friends' couches and
6 stuff. Is that --
7 A. At some point he said he was.
8 Q. But in any case, he didn't provide
9 any --
10 A. Not permanently. I mean, he owns a
11 store down in Chalmette and he's -- he's
12 involved in a lot of industries. I don't know
13 what all he's doing.
14 Q. But in any case, he didn't provide
15 you specific receipts or nights or --
16 A. He did not.
17 Q. Or any breakdown of that expense?
18 You just got to a point where it sounded like
19 300 percent would be a valid indicator of his
20 expenses?
21 A. Well, if he moved from -- from a
22 mobile home to a house and you ended up
23 indicating that you had to pay rent on that
24 house, then yeah, you're going to -- it's
25 going to be at least double what it was

183
1 before. So that makes it 300 percent when you
2 add the mobile home back into it. Because
3 whatever the cost of the mobile home is, is
4 added back to the actual expense.
5 Q. Well, the mobile home is gone. He
6 wasn't paying anything on the mobile home any
7 more, was he?
8 A. I don't know if he's still paying on
9 it or not. Whether or not he has the mortgage
10 going on and he still has to pay that, he has
11 a note on it. That's what you -- you presume
12 always that they have to pay for what they are
13 living in.
14 Q. But my point is, is that $18,000,
15 the 300 percent there is not tied to any
16 lease, any rent that he paid, any specific --
17 A. No, he did not provide any
18 documentation on that.
19 Q. Likewise, with the -- I guess the
20 difference here would be $7,000 in motel,
21 restaurant receipts. You didn't see any
22 receipts? It was just --
23 A. No. When you talk to him, he gives
24 you the nature of what he did and how long he
25 did it, and that's where you get that from.

184
1 Q. And the transportation, $14,000,
2 that again, that's a 200 percent?
3 A. Yes, because of that same situation
4 that we talked about.
5 Q. All right.
6 MR. ANDRY:
7 And for the purposes of the
8 record, those numbers that y'all are
9 discussing were in the back part of
10 4-A. Right?
11 MR. MYER:
12 Yes. Yes. That was what was
13 supplemented. On 4-B, the original
14 report, there would just have been a
15 $40,000 charge listed.
16 THE WITNESS:
17 Right.
18 MR. MYER:
19 $40,000 number listed.
21 Q. And that was modified by the
22 worksheet that you did there --
23 A. Right.
24 Q. -- for 4-A.
25 A. It came down some, but it was very

185
1 close to what it was before.
2 Q. Lastly, we have Lattimore &
3 Associates, the building. And again, this is
4 the same sort of report. Looks like
5 Xactimate, you ran Xactimate on it and, in
6 fact, there is no newer report. You didn't
7 amend anything in that report?
8 A. No, there was nothing to amend.
9 Q. Okay. We'll call this Exhibit -- I
10 think we will just call it Exhibit 5, because
11 there won't be any A's, B's, or C's. And this
12 was calculated again, you went in, measured
13 the building, put all the dimensions and
14 everything you could find about the building
15 and its characteristics into Xactimate and the
16 building, its characteristics and what you --
17 what you could reconstruct is the damages to
18 the building, and Xactimate ran out for you an
19 estimate of what it would cost in the
20 demolition and reconstruction to put the
21 building back into the condition it was in
22 prior to Katrina.
23 A. That's true.
24 Q. I said it right. Yes?
25 MR. ANDRY:
186
1 That's a good question.
2 THE WITNESS:
3 That was a great question. That
4 only required two words to answer.
6 Q. That's right. And that's what the
7 listing, the $118,033 for physical structure
8 of home, in fact, it's really a business, but
9 a building we could say?
10 A. A building, yes.
11 Q. That's what that number represents?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. In fact, Mr. Lattimore did spend
14 quite a bit of money and actually did
15 reconstruct this building.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you see any receipts or
18 indications of what he spent in that?
19 A. No. I saw the results of it.
20 Q. Right. Right. But you didn't get
21 anything from Mr. Lattimore or try and
22 reconstruct anything about what he actually
23 spent in the reconstruction?
24 A. He had nothing to offer me on that.
25 Q. Okay. Business equipment and
187
1 furnishings, that would be like the contents
2 in the other --
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. But I didn't find any kind of line
5 item listing. In this report, they were all
6 lumped together. He just said, "I had $50,000
7 worth of equipment and machinery."
8 A. Copiers, computers. He said as he
9 went in there, they were just in a heap. All
10 of the -- He said he had whole new systems
11 that were completely destroyed. You know, he
12 went into some detail about it, but gave us
13 that number and he said that's how much he had
14 invested in it.
15 Q. And while he might have anecdotally
16 described, broken it down a little bit about
17 what machines were there, in terms of the
18 cost, he just said, "All the machines I had in
19 there were worth $50,000"?
20 A. That's -- That's pretty much the
21 nature of it. He did not give me a
22 breakdown.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. Otherwise, I would have broken out
25 anything that he had told me on it.

188
1 Q. Right.
2 A. You know, I would have put -- I like
3 to put the detail down that I get. So if it's
4 there, I use it.
5 Q. And lastly, I may be missing
6 something here, but even with the 9 percent
7 material sales tax and the overhead and profit
8 of 10 percent in the Xactimate run, on page 19
9 I seem to get 107,182.21, whereas we put
10 118,033 out here. What would that difference
11 be?
12 A. I would have to look.
13 Q. Would you?
14 A. Yes. This is typed up. This is
15 calculated by the machine.
16 Q. Right.
17 A. So I may have added --
18 Q. A transcription error?
19 A. I may have added or subtracted
20 something small in the -- in it after I had
21 finished the front section so there may be --
22 Let me look in here. See if there's something
23 there that tells me. Hang on a second.
24 Do I have a -- I don't have -- I
25 don't have a fence in there somewhere. No. I

189
1 was going to say that could throw it.
2 Q. Maybe a detached structure?
3 A. A detached structure or something.
4 I don't think there is anything. There is a
5 fence going around the property. It seems
6 like I put that fence in, but I don't see it.
7 So I would have to find it now. It's possible
8 it's in there and it's just in the dwell --
9 maybe that page is missing. Because there
10 would be a recap of other structures --
11 Q. Yes.
12 A. -- if it was there. Unfortunately,
13 on the PDF version you don't get to see the
14 coverage. In the computer you can see what
15 coverage was assigned to it. I don't see it.
16 I don't see where the discrepancy is.
17 Q. But we think the discrepancy is a
18 fence, a separate structure?
19 A. It is very possible that it is,
20 because there is a fence that goes around the
21 whole thing. In fact, there's several photos
22 of the fence that I used to demonstrate the --
23 where water had been and how high it had been
24 at certain points at least.
25 Q. Okay.
190
1 A. On the other hand, you know, and it
2 would not be out of keeping, because of the
3 size of that lot, it was a fairly good size
4 lot this building was on, that a fence would
5 cost the difference between what that number
6 was and this 118 is. Because it's showing --
7 It's missing somewhere. I don't know where it
8 is.
9 Q. Okay. So that --
10 A. I'd like the numbers to --
11 Q. That $6,000 would buy a fence
12 essentially?
13 A. It would. Basically the estimate is
14 short, short from this number (indicating).
15 MR. ANDRY:
16 And the estimate specific number
17 so the record is clear --
18 THE WITNESS:
19 Is 107,182.10.
20 MR. ANDRY:
21 That's the Xactimate run and then
22 the front page of Exhibit 5 --
23 THE WITNESS:
24 Which is where I would have
25 calculated it myself.

191
1 MR. ANDRY:
2 Is 118.
3 THE WITNESS:
4 Is 118.
5 MR. ANDRY:
6 Okay.
8 Q. Going back to the equipment that he
9 said was in it, did you see any documentation,
10 any receipts, any user's manuals, anything
11 tied to the equipment?
12 A. Oh, this is completely reconstructed
13 and was in a different -- somebody else was
14 using the building now with a different
15 business in it and it was completely
16 functional at the time that I was there.
17 Q. Right.
18 A. So there wouldn't have been anything
19 available there, you know.
20 Q. No, but on any occasion did Mr.
21 Lattimore show you anything that would
22 validate his claim that there was $50,000
23 worth of machinery?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Let's see. All of your reports
192
1 contain the statement "These are only a
2 partial list of damages and should not be
3 considered as a comprehensive account of all
4 possible damages." Have you been asked to or
5 do you plan to perform any further work?
6 A. I have not been asked to.
7 Q. Do you plan to perform anything past
8 these supplemental reports?
9 A. No. Because of the -- where we are
10 now, I'd have to be asked to, you know, at
11 this point.
12 Q. I'll ask that if you do, please let
13 Mr. Andry know, so that anything you're going
14 to do, we could be told of.
15 A. I mean, it would be my preference
16 on, when I find a glitch like we did on the
17 mobile home where the report didn't even sync
18 with itself, that I would want to find where
19 it was and then find the mistake wherever it
20 is and fix it.
21 Q. Absolutely. I wouldn't have any
22 objection to that if you want to submit -- you
23 know, if you want to do another supplemental
24 report.
25 MR. ANDRY:
193
1 Why don't you do that. We'll do
2 a supplemental report that corrects
3 that mistake so that that way, at the
4 trial there is no issue as to what
5 page we're talking about.
6 THE WITNESS:
7 Yeah, I really would hate for
8 that to a hang-up just because there
9 was some kind of glitch in the way --
11 Q. And, in fact, I'll ask you to do
12 that. If you could do a little supplement,
13 find that $6,000.
14 A. I'll find the 6,000, too. So
15 there's two of them. Both of the Lattimores
16 tend to seem to have issues.
17 MR. ANDRY:
18 He's that way about it -- Off the
19 record.
20 (Whereupon a discussion was held
21 off the record.)
23 Q. But that being said, and I'll ask
24 that you do go ahead and supplement the
25 reports and correct those couple of errors we
194
1 found in the course of the deposition today,
2 but you don't plan to change any methodologies
3 or come up with any new opinions? You're just
4 going to correct the errors in the methodology
5 in the report?
6 A. Unless -- Unless I am asked to by
7 consensual agreement that we want to go into
8 more detail on ALE and compile receipts on
9 that, whatever it is, you know, I'll do what
10 they ask me to do. But, you know, within the
11 scope of what I have been asked to do, I felt
12 like I pretty much did it.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. And so unless somebody adds to that,
15 then no.
16 Q. Okay. Fair enough.
17 A. Mistakes are one thing, but, you
18 know, adding substantive information, that's
19 different.
20 MR. MYER:
21 Okay. I think we're done. Off
22 the record, we're done.
23 VIDEO OPERATOR:
24 This concludes the deposition.
25 We're going off the record.

195
1 MR. MYER:
2 Unless you wanted to ask any
3 questions, Jon. I don't mean to step
4 --
5 MR. ANDRY:
6 I was going to ask questions.
7 The only questions I would have asked
8 would have been about the reports,
9 which would have been the numbers, but
10 to the extent you're going to give a
11 supplement report for the Lattimore in
12 order to cure those issues, there's no
13 need.
14 THE WITNESS:
15 I'll find out what it is. It's
16 just logged something wrong and all of
17 a sudden it spit out a really bad
18 report.
19 MR. ANDRY:
20 We'll try to do that this
21 afternoon or as soon as possible.
22 THE WITNESS:
23 Yes, before I get out of town,
24 certainly.
25 VIDEO OPERATOR:

196
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197
1 WITNESS'S CERTIFICATE
2
3 I, SCOTT TAYLOR, read or have had
4 the preceding testimony read to me, and hereby
5 certify that it is a true and correct
6 transcription of my testimony, with the
7 exception of any attached corrections or
8 changes.
9
10
_____________________
11 (Witness' Signature)
12 ____________
DATE SIGNED
13
14 DEPONENT PLEASE INITIAL ONE:
15
_____ Read with no corrections
16
17 _____ Read and correction sheet attached
18
19
DATE TAKEN: FEBRUARY 4, 2009
20
21
22
23
24
25

198
1
2 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
3
4 I, ROGER D. JOHNS, RMR, RDR, CRR,
5 Certified Court Reporter, do hereby certify
6 that the above-named witness, after having
7 been first duly sworn by me to testify to the
8 truth, did testify as hereinabove set forth;
9 that the testimony was reported by me in
10 shorthand and transcribed under my personal
11 direction and supervision, and is a true and
12 correct transcript, to the best of my ability
13 and understanding; that I am not of counsel,
14 not related to counsel or the parties hereto,
15 and not in any way interested in the outcome
16 of this matter.
17
18
19
20 ROGER D. JOHNS
21 CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER
22 STATE OF LOUISIANA
23
24
25

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198:9 85:16 93:11,12 178:23 180:5 titled 118:9 trainees 40:20

Page 221
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29:2 31:3,6 34:21 139:25 145:6,23 75:16 91:20 usage 119:10 98:18 99:20
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48:2,8 50:2 51:4,9 turn 132:15 139:8 understanding 48:7 55:10,13 140:22 141:12
transcribe 6:19 turned 59:21 28:19 31:13 55:24 58:7 73:10,21 148:23 149:16,20
transcribed 198:10 turning 137:21 69:18 114:24 74:21 75:1 76:24 153:6,7,8,18
transcript 7:2 turns 151:1 198:13 79:20 87:5 93:23 169:18
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transcription tweak 81:11 underwriter 98:9 110:20 111:23 values 85:13 126:2
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transcripts 151:13 two 12:3 39:12 100:3 121:23 126:3 161:11,19,22
translated 54:20 41:10 44:25 65:16 underwriting 36:1 131:24 140:9 variables 77:15
transportation 66:13 67:22 84:22 under-insured 142:2 151:2 110:17
107:14 109:9,16 88:7 90:22 105:22 100:20 104:9 157:15,18 158:2 variance 96:5
109:20 162:24,25 107:7 110:2 under-insuring 162:8 165:16 variation 90:10
184:1 111:15 123:21 100:9,17 102:5 166:8,15 169:6,9 variety 19:4 20:14
trash 73:9 128:20 134:20 under-shooting 169:14,15 176:24 39:5 51:2 138:4
travel 109:20 135:21 139:24 153:11 180:18 188:4 various 25:7
treatment 127:17 164:3 174:15 unfair 152:3 user's 191:10 vast 44:11
tremendously 177:6 180:5 186:4 unfortunately uses 43:25 vector 43:25
35:13 109:6 193:15 114:18 189:12 usually 22:23 82:12 vehicle 163:22
trends 100:16 two-by-fours 139:6 unit 152:16 83:19,21 89:19 vendor 102:22
101:24 139:9,11 United 1:1 2:9,15 96:8 118:10 124:8 vendors 51:2
trial 16:12,24 193:4 type 88:24 89:1 5:20 6:11 19:13 132:16 136:17 Venetian 149:3
triangulate 45:12 91:6,8 units 152:14 143:25 venue 14:1 155:17
triangulation 45:15 typed 188:14 153:14 ususally 90:16 verbal 7:4
tried 17:8 114:24 typical 169:4 University 21:1 verified 68:20
135:23 24:6 V 162:13
trouble 31:16 U unlimited 106:24 vacant 84:17 verify 10:20 30:22
trucks 134:4 U 3:1 14:7 unreasonable valid 34:17 100:7 62:17 63:22 80:17
true 45:16 47:23 Uh-huh 24:22 153:13 154:9 161:8 182:19 141:25 169:3
100:19 113:23 43:16 47:13 97:24 unusual 69:21 validate 103:15 181:7
167:14 185:23 114:21 122:14 update 35:2,2,4 191:22 version 75:11
197:5 198:11 123:5 159:3 167:9 43:14 111:20 validity 99:13 189:13
truly 129:13 168:10 172:15 177:3 178:22 181:7 versus 26:7 30:25
trust 140:12 178:19 173:2 updated 8:12,14 valuable 40:5 82:11 89:21 94:1
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try 7:17 52:5,7 ultimately 99:19 168:14 177:2 valuation 81:14 164:6 178:24
88:10,14 100:25 137:16 160:4 updates 8:9 36:10 140:19 141:16 victim 17:5
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145:4 186:21 undamaged 145:7 upper 125:16 81:4,8,8,22 82:7,8 48:8 61:23 62:3
195:20 underneath 71:3 upside 110:12 82:11 83:3,14 112:18,23 113:3
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Page 222
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videotaped 1:19 warranty 85:20 198:15 166:16,25 167:5 50:24 51:1,5,16
5:2 washing 108:15 ways 154:2 174:12 177:20 52:6 53:7 54:17
view 64:19 103:5 109:1 wear 163:10 193:5 194:21,22 55:9 59:18,25
Virginia 13:15 Washington 2:14 wears 88:6 194:25 65:12 87:15,17
virtually 64:7 wasn't 15:2,6 27:10 weather 68:16 we've 10:18 147:24 101:3 111:6,8
69:19 139:16,18 27:18 56:2 63:23 Wednesday 1:24 170:9 129:8,12 138:17
visible 143:22 66:14,14 68:9 week 57:7 63:3,5 whatsoever 64:13 139:10 143:18,19
visit 70:15 114:18 69:5 95:1 108:25 64:9 68:18 74:5 widely 41:1 144:24 145:3,4,7
visiting 99:16 137:18,19 142:1 weeks 135:21 wielding 28:4 149:15 163:20
174:15 143:9 146:21 week-long 25:14 wife 163:5 192:5
visual 46:12,14 154:3 161:8,8 went 14:17,18 WILKINSON 1:14 worked 21:13 22:8
visually 46:13 162:17 164:14,15 15:14,24 19:10 willing 98:6 106:20 22:19 23:7 24:19
vocal 49:14 170:1 181:11 20:25 21:21 28:4 Wilma 35:8 40:12 50:16,18,22
volume 42:2 99:23 183:6 38:2 51:10,11 wind 26:7 90:5 51:1 56:20 91:13
volumes 44:6 waste 77:14 140:2 65:19 71:14,22 145:20,20,21 working 26:25
vouchers 156:14 watch 180:7,25 72:15 92:5 110:9 146:23 40:24 53:6 78:6
water 26:12 57:14 115:25 124:3 window 109:2 82:17 87:6 123:15
W 57:19 58:18 62:14 137:15,24 143:22 windows 150:13 136:4 163:12
wait 59:18 140:15 63:10,16 64:14 149:17 154:23 winds 167:21,23 works 41:20 55:9
179:15 66:21 68:2,23 162:11 164:9 Winston-Salem 76:16 79:12 98:7
waive 10:21 70:7 71:5,18,20 169:1 185:12 24:9 120:16
waived 3:10 90:2,2 145:19 187:9,12 wiring 147:20 worksheet 112:2
waiver 106:20 146:6,7,8,17,23 weren't 119:24 148:1 133:5 134:6
Wake 24:3,6,8 146:24 148:2,6,7 146:22 154:4 withhold 35:15 184:22
walk 87:16 148:10,19 168:2 156:11 164:16,17 witness 3:6,22 5:24 workshops 26:2,3,6
walked 147:16 189:23 West 12:18 7:20 11:4 16:12 28:21 38:3
164:17,19 way 7:24 13:16 wet 148:5 18:19 19:2 54:9 world 28:17
wall 148:17 14:4 21:13 22:9 we'll 8:25 10:25 60:24 157:17 worry 29:10 86:4
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77:21,22 44:8,13,14,21 113:25 116:17 184:16 186:2 81:13 82:9 84:2
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15:15 31:19 45:5 70:10 75:12 76:11 142:15 155:11 197:11 198:6 187:7,19 191:23
46:5 58:11 74:9 77:25 79:3,16 157:2 168:13 WITNESS'S 197:1 wouldn't 31:21
78:1 83:11,22 93:6 99:24 100:23 185:9 193:1 wood 148:16 150:6 64:2 79:20 89:24
97:18 106:5,6,25 100:25 102:20 195:20 wooden 150:13 90:23 94:21
107:1 108:14 109:14,17,19 we're 5:6 7:1 12:23 word 118:20 119:8 101:19 108:5
110:24 116:9,20 110:13 111:10 20:18 42:3 46:2 119:10 191:18 192:21
129:22 136:7 112:7,16 116:11 61:15,19 62:5 words 35:17 36:12 wreck 67:24
147:13 173:10 117:1,22 120:15 81:21 89:5 90:4,7 77:17 100:12 write 13:7 27:4
177:22 192:18,22 120:16 126:4 92:6 101:4 104:8 130:9 186:4 30:17 31:20,21
192:23 194:7 142:10 144:9 105:24 113:1,5 work 8:10 22:4,9 97:6,6,7 98:15
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132:12 145:18 166:13 169:6 123:11 134:24 27:14,17,24 28:5 117:11 125:16
195:2 170:23 171:18 136:4 140:22 30:13 31:7 32:8 149:22

Page 223
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28:6 51:24 96:25 111:7,10 154:6 1 96:7 116:14,17 1958 24:7 29615 1:22 6:2
97:1,2 99:20 years 17:19 21:22 147:13 1980 17:13
100:8 105:14 22:2 39:22 40:7 3
1s 157:4
123:18 125:1 41:10 48:18 52:10 2 3 113:4 116:17
1,000 48:24
written 32:17 49:9 53:3,12 70:5 1-A 4:3 116:25 2 1:10 62:4 113:1 166:25 170:4
49:15 55:18 57:5 111:16 123:21 117:5,11 118:5 116:17 120:23,24 179:15,16
61:8 75:8 101:4 yesterday 12:12,13 1-B 4:4 116:25 120:24 121:2 3-A 4:10 161:23
102:13 111:9 62:24 63:8,25 125:21 126:13,20 168:13 171:13 3-B 4:10 161:24
151:25,25 152:1 y'all 184:8 131:22 2s 157:4 30 1:21 6:1 45:3
wrong 195:16 1-C 4:5 117:1 2-A 4:8 142:15 104:17 154:6
wrote 35:12 92:7 $ 2-B 4:9 155:12 178:4,4
125:24 137:8
124:24 126:20 $1,000 135:3 1-D 4:6 137:8,8 2-C 157:2 30,600 176:8
151:20 $10,000 180:24 1-E 4:7 137:9 2/4/09 168:13 300 181:25 182:19
$100 135:22 10 96:5 129:10,11 20 21:22 22:2 39:22 183:1,15
X $118,033 186:7 40:7 96:5,7,8 300,000 144:6
130:20,21 131:18
X 4:1 $120,000 152:6 131:19 171:20,21 105:10,17,18 38,600 181:22
Xactimate 43:19 $14,000 184:1 171:23,23 172:3,3 106:4,17 110:22 39,300 153:23
75:21,22 76:6,8 $143,000 128:15 188:8 110:24 111:18,21 3920 114:3
77:22 78:14,22 $18,000 183:14 10,000 181:2,2 112:6,14
79:24 81:13 92:15 $20,000 150:25 20,000 177:7 4
100 134:25 4 1:25 116:17
102:16 112:3 178:14 107,182.10 190:19 200 135:1,2 136:2,3
117:17,18,21 $200,000 98:4,7 162:14,16,19,25 120:23 128:7
107,182.21 188:9 167:4 179:16
118:6,6 120:16 $22,000 174:18 114 4:21 164:10 184:2
122:21 142:17 $30,000 151:1 2000 176:21 197:19
117 4:3 4th 5:11
158:16 159:1 178:5,15 118 190:6 191:2,4 20004 2:14
162:1 168:20 $300,000 150:4 2004 17:17 28:8 4,500 180:25,25
118,033 188:10 4-A 4:11 168:14
169:9 172:16 151:1 12 25:17 111:12 2005 17:18 26:21
176:23 177:1,5 $32,736 176:10 27:15 28:12,22,24 173:19 179:8,17
125 4:4,5 181:21 184:10,24
178:17,21 185:5,5 $40,000 154:7 1331 2:12 50:16 122:13
185:15,18 188:8 174:18 178:5 144:16 4-B 4:12 172:8
137 4:6,7 173:17,19 179:8
190:21 181:21 184:15,19 14 20:11 51:10,12 2006 40:22 50:20
Xactimate's 172:23 $400,000 97:23 2007 114:16 176:17 179:13 181:20
142 4:8,22 184:13
150:4 143,493 131:21 178:2,6
Y $45,000 179:19 2008 64:21 114:17 4-C 4:13 174:10,12
Yea 61:20 155 4:9 4-D 4:14 175:25
$50,000 187:6,19 157 4:23 167:13 174:14
yeah 16:22 17:12 191:22 2009 1:25 5:12 40 39:7 178:4
17:20 21:7 23:19 16 130:4 40,000 171:18
$500,000 150:4 161 4:10 197:19
23:22 49:17 65:25 $6,000 190:11 203 12:17 42,262 178:17
70:17 98:1 124:22 165,784 130:2 42,262.35 170:18
193:13 166 4:24 21,600 133:15,23
141:11,20 146:4 $7,000 183:20 22,000 177:7 172:13 178:18
174:7 182:24 168 4:11 44,400 131:24
$94,065.96 168:19 172 4:12 234,251.72 158:25
193:7 249,039 141:4 132:21
year 13:18,18,19 0 174 4:13 45 170:14
176 4:14 249,039.33 141:18
21:12 32:16 37:10 05-4182 1:9 250 162:20 45,000 179:14
50:5,6 52:15,16 06-2268 1:13 18 139:11
185 4:15 26 167:12
56:24 64:17 67:12 28 122:13 5

Page 224
5 4:15 17:18 116:18 93,543 160:14

123:2 147:13 94,000 169:24
171:19,19 185:10 94,065.96 169:21
190:22 95 23:25
50 71:20 80:6,25 96,143 160:13
95:10 96:3,8,11 98 27:3
97:5,12,14,18 99 24:1 27:3
101:10 103:9
104:2,9,15,17,20
104:24 105:4
134:24 136:1
162:14
54 130:6
56 128:15,17
57 132:20
58 163:19
6
6,000 181:1 193:14
60 57:2,2
610 2:5
65 4:17
67 4:18
69 4:19
7
70 4:20 57:2 104:19
70113 1:24 2:6
78 21:12,17
79 16:13 17:13
8
8 17:12
80 16:13,13 17:13
80s 17:11
8095N 2:13
81 16:12,13
82 170:2
82,262.35 170:5
84 21:16,17 139:6,8
139:11
85 170:14
855 1:23 5:7
9
9 171:19 188:6
90s 28:3

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1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

IN RE: KATRINA CANAL BREACHES CIVIL ACTION

PERTAINS TO: MRGO ROBINSON JUDGE DUVAL

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285

JOHNS PENDLETON COURT REPORTERS 800 562-1285