96 - Renton Police Department Public Records

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kENTON POLICE DEPARTMENT

INTERNAL AFFAIRS
ACCUSED OFFICER ADMONITION

Today's date is April23, 2009 _____ at /J() 0
03-09
Complaint Number
hours. I am
Commander Charles Karlewicz interviewing Sergeant ____ _
regarding a complaint of City Policy 300-3 Harassment, General Order 1.3.1 Use of Force,
General Order 26.1.1B Unbecoming Conduct, General Order 26.1.1YY Ethics, Auxiliary
Services SOP 038, Employee/Inmate Fraternizing

which is alleged to have"between June 2008 to April2009 at unknown hours.
;;;;;.S.;:.er=-zg""e;..;;a;:;:n:..::.t:..::.J""'o=h=n..;:D;;..:i""C;;.:r..;:o""'c..;;;.e________ , do you understand that this conversation is being
tape recorded? (Yes or No)
Sergeant , do you wish to have a Guild Representative present
during this interview? (Yes or No) \
Let the record reflect that Sf;p J1of!C\ is present. Please
aclmowledge your presence by stating your name. (Stating ofName)
Sergeant , prior to this interview, were you given the opportunity to
read the complaint of this incident? (Yes or No) Were you given an opportunity to consult with
your Guild Representative prior to this interview? (Yes or No)
Sergeant , I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of
an official investigation ofthe Renton Police Department. You will be asked questions specifically
directed and narrowly related to the performance of your official duties or fitness for office.
You are reminded that Section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the Renton Police
Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfully respond. Any
refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in General Orders Section 26 .1.
You are entitled to all the rights and privileges guaranteed by law and the Constitution of the
United States, including the right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself.
I further wish to advise you that if you refuse to testify or answer questions relating to the
performance of your official duties or fitness for duty, you will be subject to departmental
charges which could result in your dismissal from the Renton Police Department.
If you do answer, neither your statements nor any information or evidence which is gained by
reason of such statements can be used against you in any subsequent criminal proceeding.
these statements may be used against you departmental charges.
Guild Representative
PD _ Admin/Milosevich/COForms
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
COMPLAINT NUMBER: C0-03-09
INTERVIEWER: Commander Chad Karlewicz
LOCATION: Renton Police Department
DATE: April23, 2009
1100
KARLEWICZ: I'm Commander Chad Karlewicz interviewing Sergeant
reg?-rding a complaint of city policy 300-3 Harassment, General Order 1.3 .1
Use afForce, General Order 26.1.1B Unbecoming Conduct, General Order
26.1.1 YY Ethics, Auxiliary Services Standard Operating Procedure 038
Employee Inmate Fraternizing, which is alleged to have occurred between June
2008 and April2009. do you understand that this conversation is being
tape-recorded?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: And do you wish to have a Guild representative present during the interview?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Let the record reflect that Dave Skelton is present. Please acknowledge your
presence by stating your name Dave.
SKELTON: Dave Skelton.
KARLEWICZ: Alright prior to this interview, were you given the opportunity to read the
complaint of the incident?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: And were you given the opportunity to consult with your Guild representative
prior to this interview?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of an official
investigation of the Renton Police Department. You will be asked questions
specifically directed, and narrowly related to the performance of your official
duties or fitness for office. You are reminded that section 26.1
Insubordination and Truthfulness of the Renton Police Department General
Orders do apply in this matter and you must truthfully respond. Any refusal
to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in General Order
Section 26.1. You are entitled to all the rights and privileges guaranteed by
law and the Constitution of the United States including the right not to be
compelled to incriminate yourself. I further wish to further to advise you that
if you refuse to testify or answer questions relating to the performance of your
(SS/I:Complaints/C0-03-09- 1

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STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
official duties or fitness for duty you will be subject to departmental charges .
which could result in your dismissal from the Renton Police Department. If
you do answer, neither your statements nor any information or evidence
which is gained by reason of such statements can be used against you in any
subsequent criminal proceedings. However, these statements may be used
against you in relation to subsequent departmental charges. Do you
understand all that?
Yes.
Any questions about it?
No.
Okay. So I have a series of questions here and I'll just start going down them.
Get some note taking material here.
Okay, Let's start off with some basics here. What is your position with
Renton Police Department?
Renton Jail Sergeant.
And what do your duties and responsibilities include?
Daily observation of the jail inmate, and staff on a daily basis.
As a supervisor, do you believe it's your responsibility to set the example for
subordinates to follow?
Yes.
And as a supervisor are you charged with being a leader in the Jail?
Yes.
Okay. In the course of your duties, do you sometimes receive confidential
information?
Yes.
When confidential information is shared with you, do you always maintain
that confidence?
Yes.
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
KARLEWICZ: As a supervisor, do you think it is your responsibility to ensure cohesive
working relationships in the workspace?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Do you think that that responsibility includes working relationships with both
the A and B side of the Jail staff?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Do you agree that this responsibility includes working relationships
with other divisions in the department?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: As a supervisor, do you include the awareness of the City's Harassment
Policy on the evaluations that you write?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Are you aware of what that policy is?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Can you give me a summary, a brief summary of what that policy is?
For harassment?
KARLEWICZ: Harassment, yeah.
Any uncomfortable workplace condition created by either uh unwanted
comments, touching, performance.
KARLEWICZ: Okay, is that so you give me more of the sexual harassment side or the
standard harassment.
Both.
KARLEWICZ: As a supervisor are you charged with overseeing the daily operations of the
Jail during your hours of duty?
Yes.
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
KARLEWICZ: And as a supervisor are you charged with enforcing the policies and
procedures set forth by the City of Renton and the Renton Police
Department?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Are you also charged with reporting violations of these policies and
procedures to your direct supervisor when noted?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: As a supervisor are you charged with the health and welfare of inmates that
are in the custody of the Renton Police Department?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: And are you charged to be honest in all aspects of the performance of your
official duties?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Are you charged to direct your subordinates to follow City Policy and
Procedure?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Have you ever instructed any member of the I ail staff to violate a policy or
procedure?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Have you ever instructed any member ofthe Jail to.perform any act, which is
inappropriate or unethical?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Do you know, or have knowledge of Auxiliary Services Standard Operating
Procedure AUX-038 which is titled Employee Inmate Fraternizing?
Yeah, I wrote it.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Have you ever seen, or let me start again. Have you ever heard any
member of the jail staff have any inappropriate conversations with any
inmate?
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
No, not, no, joking around yes.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Have you ever had a conversation with any irnnate regarding the daily
operation of the Jail, Policy or Procedures or the new SCORE facility?
Yeah, the Trustees.
KARLEWICZ: Tell me a little bit about those conversations.
Uh, they've asked about SCORE, what and where it's going to be. How
many it's going to be so talked about that.
KARLEWICZ: Okay.
Talk to Trustees on a daily basis. Not about SCORE, just in general. I
always talk to the Trustees.
KARLEWICZ: But not necessarily-specifically about the operation of the Jail, policies,
procedures anything like that?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Mainly about the new SCORE facility.
Yeah, they ask where it's going to be and how big it's going to be.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Have you ever heard a member of the Jail staff having a conversation
with any irnnate regarding other Jail staff members?
Have I ever what?
KARLEWICZ: Have you ever heard a member of the Jail staff having a conversation with
any inmate regarding other Jail staff employees, members?
Hmmmm, I don't lmow if it was directed at the inmate. I lmow in custodies
have heard staff talk about other staff.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Have you ever had a conversation with any inmate regarding the daily
operation of the Jail, policies and procedures of the new SCORE facility?
Didn't you just ask me that one?
KARLEWICZ: Well, that one was have you heard other employees -
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Oh, okay, well I-
KARLEWICZ: This one is have you ever had any conversations ....
Well, that was what I did.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Ummmm, have you ever heard a member of the Jail staff having a
conversation with any imnate regarding other Jail employees, other Jail staff?
Like I said, I've heard staff talking about other staff, but I don't lmow if it
was directed directly at the Trustee or not.
KARLEWICZ: So it wasn't a conversation between the staff person and the Trustee ....
Not (unintelligible overtalk)
KARLEWICZ: Okay.
I lmow Trustees have had complaints about staff and they've talked about it
that way, too. (unintelligible overtalk)
KARLEWICZ: So the Trustees, the Trustees have talked about it to -
Staff
KARLEWICZ: Staff members and what were those conversations?
Well, I've had one Trustee complain to me about Sergeant in the
past. And then -
KARLEWICZ: Okay, what Trustee was that?

KARLEWICZ: Okay.
In regards to this the allegation to solicit a letter from Mr. Yeah
because Mr. wanted to file a complaint against Sergeant
so I said if you want to file a complaint, you gotta put it on paper.
KARLEWICZ: Okay.
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STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Which I'm obligated to do. Now Mr. I don't think he did, but I did
tell him if he wants to file a complaint against Sergeant you put it
on paper.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Umm, so you've kind of already answered this one. Have you ever
had a conversation with an inmate regarding a performance of any member of
the Jail staff.
No. (not clear)
KARLEWICZ: And that was regarding and when did that conversation
take place?
End of last month. Middle-end of last month.
KARLEWICZ: So middle to end of March?
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: And where did that take place?
In the kitchen.
KARLEWICZ: Do you typically answer inmate questions when asked either in the form of a
kite or ?
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Who advises inmates of their release date?
Staff- any staff.
KARLEWICZ: Any staff person? And in particular Trustees it would be-
Trustees, typically no because we're allowed to gift them time in addition to
their regular release dates. So either Sgt. or myself can gift them
up to two weeks of time off depending on how long they've been in the
facility.
KARLEWICZ: Okay, for Trustees, and the gifting process, that's limited to you or

Yeah.
KARLEWICZ:

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STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
So, uh explain that process to me. How does that work, and are there
guidelines about how much time for what or is it subjective- is it subjective
or objective.
(unintelligible) Somewhat subjective. Typically, it's right around seven days
unless it's been, in case, more than six months, and then we'll do
up the maximum of two weeks, which in Mr. case is what I said.
His complaint was he had asked Sgt. four different times- got
four different dates, and then never lmew because the date never got changed.
Urn, so has - this question is has any inmate asked you for their release date
in the last 60 days, but I guess I'd like to focus specifically on since
you-
Yeah, since I'm, I'm the one that set his release date.
KARLEWICZ: Okay.
Cause he had told, I had said, well, you'd ask what'd he say. He
said he's given him four different dates. He had listed out when he was given
the date, and the date he was given, and then the next time he had asked he's
given a different date and what date that was so he asked me. He says I've
asked so I'm gonna ask you. When am I released. I said what's
your release date and back it up 14 days- said that's it. We're done. And he
was fine with that. He just wanted a date.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. So he came to you and asked
For a solid release date.
KARLEWICZ: Can I get a solid release date, cause I'm getting mixed information here and I
just want a solid date.
Yes. Cause he had had it changed several times and he just wanted a date.
KARLEWICZ: And where did that conversation take place.
In the kitchen, same place.
KARLEWICZ: Was that the same conversation, or-
Same conversation.
KARLEWICZ: Okay, so there was one conversation that encompassed release date and-
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
(unintelligible overtalk)
KARLEWICZ: Okay.
Then I was told by staff, that he was pissed at for it. So I went and
talked to him.
KARLEWICZ: Oh, by, who in staff told you - so who else had information or knowledge of
this disgruntled-
Oh, either or
KARLEWICZ: So, just one person? It wasn't multiple- I thought you said it was multiple
people.
Well, I'm sure the entire day shift knew was pissed because
(unintelligible, overtalk)
KARLEWICZ: Let me ask the question in a different way. Who, what staff members came to
you and noted that was upset with about the release date
issue?
It was either or .
KARLEWICZ: So it was just one person?
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Only one person came to you -
-the Trustee's pissed off.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Have you ever heard any member of the Jail staff ask or solicit any
person to write a letter about the performance of any City employee?
Other than with what Mr. That would be me, that if you want to
file a complaint, he's got to do it in writing, so that would be the only time.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. So you've never heard anybody else discuss it. It was just that one
conversation that you had with regarding his displeasure with
and your comment was, you gotta put it in writing?
Yeah.
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STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Okay.
You want to file a complaint, you gotta do it in writing.
And what was your direction, other than you have to put it in writing, what
was your direction to about that letter.
That was it, you can write it down how you think you've been
----
wronged, put it in writing, and send it in.
Was there anymore detail to it than that, or is what you just told me the extent
ofthe conversation?
That's pretty much the gist of it.
I mean was it send it to you, send it to a Jail staff person, send it to a
Commander, send it ( overtalk, unintelligible)
I think I said to the Jail Commander.
To the Jail Commander, through, obviously through Jail staff is how it would
get there.
I don't think I told him to put it in on a kite. I just said send a letter, so I
don't lmow if he would mail it or, he wouldn't put it, he could have put it on
a grievance, I just said make a formal complaint. I didn't specifically tell him
how to go about it. I said you have to put it in writing and submit it to the Jail
Commander.
KARLEWICZ: Was there anybody else in the Jail? Any other Jail employees I should say
that were aware of that conversation and your notifying ofhis need
to put his complaint in wliting?
It was just him and I in the kitchen.
KARLEWICZ: Okay, ( overtalk)
-that's my recollection.
KARLEWICZ: Nobody else lmew that you had told him that he needed to do that?
Uh-uh (no)
, (SS/I:Complaints/C0-03-09- 10
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STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Okay. Urn, have you ever asked any inmate to write a letter about
performance of the City employee- we already answered that one. And that
was the only time.
mmm-mmm (affinnative)
Okay. Have you ever written a letter or memo other than an evaluation
regarding another member's performance?
Yes.
Tell me about those- one-
The memo in regards to the 3B graveyarders. That I received from the FTOs
that identified several areas that were lacking.
Okay.
And they identified the problems. They identified a solution, how they
wanted to fix it. I sent it up and it was given to Sgt. to fix.
So did you write a memo and attach it to their memo, is that how that went?
Yeah.
Okay. Going back to the letter that you told that he'd have to write.
Urn, in that conversation, did you outline- urn, let me just read the question.
Did you ever have a conversation with any inmate regarding a letter outlining
the poor performance of any City employee, specifically talking
about
You know he had laid out his complaint. He had said why he was upset with
the whole not getting a solid date and to I said if you got a
complaint against Sgt. you can file a complaint. That's up to you.
Do you recall specifically what his complaint was, other than the release
date?
After the 4th release date, he wanted to keep seeing Sgt. and in his
opinion, was just dodging him. He wouldn't come into the Jail. If
he did and saw he'd leave. In opinion, that's, so for like
four days, or a rotation, he felt was just ducking him, waiting for
me to come back.
(
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STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
KARLEWICZ: Was that his only complaint? Or were there other work performance related
complaints that he had?
No, pretty much with it was just his release date thing.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Urn, gave information to us that was fairly specific about
what the complaints were and um almost verbatim those allegations tumed up
in evaluation so I guess my question would be do you have any
idea you told me that the only complaint he had was that he felt like he was
being ducked.
That's the only complaint he voiced to me.
KARLEWICZ: But then the information that we got from, from him, the complaints were
more specific and the same exact complaints turned up in
evaluation. Do you have any idea how that happened, or-
No, I have nothin', nothing. I told him how, who and how he had to file his
complaint.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. So you never had any specific conversations -
I never, I never, I never saw or knew that he actually made a complaint.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. And you never had any specific conversations with regarding
any shortfall on part other than was ducking him.
There was never any conversation about any other aspect of his work
performance.
No, maybe the food order, but that would be it, and that's just kind of a
weekly thing.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. And you already answered this question I think, but when you had this
conversation with was there any other Jail staff around that may
have overheard that conversation?
It was during the day time so, I think it was during the daytime. I was in the
kitchen, and I don't remember who was there.
KARLEWICZ: Okay, and you already said that you didn't discuss with any of the other Jail
staffyour directing to have to write a letter about this.
No.
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STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Okay, urn, alleges that another Jail staffmember, shortly after your
conversation with him came and told them, that by the way, when you write
that letter, uh, don't seal it because we want to read it before it goes out. Do
you have any idea how that other person would know about that conversation,
or about writing a letter?
No., no. No, I mean, well, you've been to the kitchen. It's not closed, so if
another officer is standing there and can hear me telling or he's
coming into the kitchen as I'm saying it, like I said, when we were in the
kitchen it was just and I and I was telling him about it because he
was miffed at it. I said if you gotta beef, file your complaint, here's how you
do it. You write down your complaint, send it up addressed to the Jail
Commander.
KARLEWICZ: And again, there was no discussion between you and any other Jail staff,
regarding need to write this down and send it up.
No, I didn't direct anybody to make sure he did it, and like I said, I didn't
know he actually did do it.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Urn, you said you had a conversation with regarding his
release date and that it occurred middle to end of March. Uh, during that
conversation did you tell that ifhe wrote a letter to the Jail
Commander you would give him a release date of April 1st?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Okay.
I had just backed his release date up to Aprill
8
\ because it was almost two
weeks offhis sentence, and just said that's your release date.
KARLEWICZ: You said almost two weeks -
I don't remember what his exact release date was.
KARLEWICZ: Can it ever be more than two weeks?
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: But two weeks is just a general guideline?
Exactly.
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
KARLEWICZ: Is that guideline written anywhere?
No. It's-
KARLEWICZ: So if a Trustee was there for a long period oftime and did a phenomenal job
could you conceivably say we're letting you out a month early?
No. Because even with the two weeks I run it by, at that time it'd be Manager
Bartley. I'd run it by her and say, hey, I want to give him two weeks for gift
time.
KARLEWICZ: But if it was a month, and you rand it by and they said sure no problem, then
conceivably, ( overtalk)
'Hypothetically it could be.
KARLEWICZ: Cause there is not written guideline for gifting early release okay. In your
discussion about uh, with about the need to write his complaint
down, did you tell him that he needed a statement in the letter that Sgt.
was incompetent?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Did you say that he needed to state in his letter that Sgt. could not
make a good decision and was indecisive?
No. I think he felt that. already.
KARLEWICZ: And did he discuss that with you?
He did because ofthe four (overtalk)
KARLEWICZ: Decision-making and indecisive because ofthe four (overtalk)
And I may have said well if he can't make a decision I'm just going to give
you Aprill
81
Done, we're done. Are you happy, good, see ya.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Urn, what was your intent on asking the Trustee to create the letter?
Well, Mr. was actually pissed at
KARLEWICZ: So the intent was?
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STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Hey if you want to file a beef, file a beef. The same as we tell inmates when
they come in that want to complain about the officer.
Okay. And I already asked you this. Did you tell the Trustee that when he
wrote the letter to the Commander he was not to seal it so it could be read
Did you give the trustee a proper release date?
Yeah.
Did you give the Trustee a quicker release date than he had eamed because he
stated he would write a letter?
No.
Did the Trustee ever write a letter and give it to you?
No, like I said, I didn't know he had submitted a letter.
Urn, is there any other- I've asked this three times I think already, but I'll ask
again. Is there any other member of the Jail that is aware of this incident?
This specific one?
Hmm-mm. (affirmative)
Not to my knowledge. I do know the other office that's being interviewed
now because I saw his papers matching mine so.
Did you communicate to any City employee that a letter may be written by
the Trustee, and tell that employee what to do with it?
No.
What additional information if any, did you share with any other employee
about this incident?
Not, you know I might have come back into the control room and said, well
pissed at for the bouncing around date thing, but
everybody knew that cause had already expressed why he was
pissed, so other than that, after wrote down on the board April 1
5
\ that was
pretty much it and I may have said Hey, he's pissed, but whatever.
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
KARLEWICZ: Okay, switching gears a little bit here, urn., have your actions or words ever
worked in a manner to discredit Sgt. with any other City
employee?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Tell me about that.
Manager Bartley, my boss, so ifi'm venting because of uh issues I may have
with my counterpart, yeah, and it's e e 1 ~ in my evaluation.
KARLEWICZ: What's been in your evaluation?
That I need to find better opinions of Sgt.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Do you work directly with or-
No.
KARLEWICZ: Do you ever see each other at work?
No.
KARLEWICZ: So -
His crew did call me at home because they did not want to call him.
KARLEWICZ: Okay.
And I addressed that issue.
KARLEWICZ: Urn, are you aware that Sgt. recently received a poor evaluation?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: How are you aware of that?
I'm not- I think Manager Bartley probably actually probably told me.
KARLEWICZ: Okay, have you read Sgt. last evaluation?
No.
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STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
KARLEWICZ: Were you asked by anyone to provide some details about Sgt.
performance?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Did you have or were you asked for input for Sgt. last
evaluation?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Do you use the City's email system to share information about Sgt.
performance with anyone?
No. Other than that memo.
KARLEWICZ: Okay.
But that wasn't really a thing. That was his crew thing.
KARLEWICZ: Are you aware of any information that was put into evaluation?
No.
KARLEWICZ: No specifics at all just that there was a poor evaluation.
Just that, no not even a, well, just that there was some needs improvement.
Not specific into what, just, yeah, it wasn't a great eval.
KARLEWICZ: And that information came directly from Manager Bartley.
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: And tell me about that conversation, how that took place and what details you
were given.

KARLEWICZ:
I'm not really sure where we- it might have been. I'm not sure when it was.
It was recently and what were we doing? It might have been at the SCORE
meeting and just talking about work. She asked me how everyone's doing
and she probably, I think that's when she mentioned well, Sgt.
didn't get a very favorable evaluation.
And that was the extent of the conversation?
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STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Yeah, she didn't say specific, no nothing, just that he did not get a favorable
evaluation.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Have you share your knowledge of Sgt. evaluation with
any other City employee that you knew that it wasn't favorable, that type of
thing?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Do you ever use the City's email system to conespond with members within
the Police Department?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Are you aware that all emails, whether deleted or not are archived and can be
retrieved?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Do you feel that your knowledge of the department's use of- start again- do
you feel that you are knowledgeable in the department's use of force policy?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Are you aware of the reporting requirements when force is used?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Give me a brief description of what those are.
Anytime you use force to make someone do what they wouldn't naturally do
or don't want to do you have to document it. Any unwanted- what may be
perceived as unwanted touching.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. And what do we document that one?
A Use of Force Report.
KARLEWICZ: Have you received training on the Renton Police Department's Use of Force
Policy?
Yes.
. (
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
KARLEWICZ: And have you received, or reviewed the Renton Police Department's Use of
Force Policy with your subordinates?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: And when was the last time you trained your subordinates on the Use of
Force?
They got- they get quarterly training.
-KARLEWICZ: How is that training documented?
The DT instructor Ervin conducts, turns in lesson plans, conducts the DT
training quarterly.
KARLEWICZ: And do they do a after action reports per se of the training and what was -
Good and bad?
KARLEWICZ: Yeah.
No.
KARLEWICZ: And who reviews all that stuff?
I think I get a lesson plan, I think Trox still gets a lesson plan just on what
they're teaching.
KARLEWICZ: So you don't conduct training necessarily for subordinates, but it's just the
qumierly-
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Uh, do you believe that all of your uses of force are within department
policy?
yes.
KARLEWICZ: Are you confident in your ability to use the amount of force necessary?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: W auld you say that you are proud of your ability to handle yourself?
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Have you ever had a conversation with any person where you stated that you
could not leave the control room as you had too many uses of force?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Who was that to?
I think just about everybody.
KARLEWICZ: Just about -like all staff people, all the Trustees, all- ( overtalk)
No, all staff, all staff.
KARLEWICZ: No Trustees.
No. Actually with the Trustees if they're standing there when I make the
comment they can hear it, but I'm not telling them that.
KARLEWICZ: Okay, cause it wasn't a one on one conversation they may have overheard
that.
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Have you been told that you could not leave the control room because you
had too many uses of force?
No.
KARLEWICZ: So, it's just your own personal regulation, to say hey, I can't leave the control
room cause I have too many uses of force.
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Okay, when was the last time you used force against an inmate?
mmmmm December 30th?
KARLEWICZ: Uh, when was the last time you used soft empty hand techniques?
Same timeframe. I had two use of forces in that rotation.
KARLEWICZ: Have you ever had to use your taser in the Jail?
( (
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: When was the last time you used your taser in the Jail?
Since Moses has been gone, awhile, yeah, it's been awhile, cause I've only
used it once.
KARLEWICZ: Are you familiar with the Jail's video surveillance capabilities?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Give me a brief overview of what those are?
Everything's recorded, that's about it. Everything, everywhere is recorded.
KARLEWICZ: Everything, everywhere.
Pretty much yeah.
KARLEWICZ: 24-7?
Yep.
KARLEWICZ: And what media is that recorded on?
The DVRs.
KARLEWICZ: Onto a DVR.
DICROCB: Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Urn, and what's done with those recordings?
They're not burned onto there, they're just stored into the DVR. And then if
an incident pops up, then you have to report it, you bum it onto a CD.
KARLEWICZ: So how long- go into detail for me about uh the recording capability and
how long stuff is maintained.
Typically depending on the amount of movement, because they're all
movement cameras now- so if somebody moves, it starts recording. If
nobody moves, it's not recording. So it saves recording safe. I think the
(
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
KARLEWICZ:
window's 30 to 40 days, 60 days, somewhere in there. 40, 60 days,
depending on how much movement.
So all the time everywhere, everything is recorded, but only when there's
movement.
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: So the cameras have motion sensors, how does -( overtalk)
They're motion activated.
KARLEWICZ: (ove1ialk) every camera in the jail has a motion sensor.
Motion activated.
KARLEWICZ: So theoretically, your conversation with would have been recorded?
Yes. Well, us two standing in the kitchen would have been.
KARLEWICZ: Right.
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Is there any way that it would not have been recorded? Based on your
knowledge ofthe system.
No, you may not see me if I'm standing in- you lmow when you go in the
kitchen, that food rack to the left I don't think it starts recording til you're by
the stove. So.
KARLEWICZ: Where were you and when you were having your conversation in the
kitchen?
I was by the tea. I think that's what I was doing, was getting tea.
KARLEWICZ: So, it should have picked that up.
You should see me in there, yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. So if a portion of the video recording is not able to be found, for
example for if we were to look for that and couldn't find it,
hmm-mm (affirmative)
(
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
KARLEWICZ: And it was just a blank space for a period of time where this conversation
apparently took place, do you have any idea how that could happen?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Urn,
Because during this conversation would be on the camera, so if you
can't see me, is still there activating the camera, so if you wanted to
look for it, you look for the point where he goes to this board where he'd
drawn the elaborate four different dates and he's pointing at the board. Now
jfyou can't see me, that's because I'm standing there listening to him, but
still you would see him pointing at the board.
KARLEWICZ: Okay, is that something, that's new information now a little bit so tell me,
give me more detail about your conversation with him. You said he went to a
board, and drew the dates on there.
I had said it earlier, he had written down all these different dates that
KARLEWICZ: What board, and where's the board in the-
By the popcorn machine where they usually write the numbers, they write
numbers on it, or little, at the time they write little sayings and notes,
had wanted to have his argument presentable to me when I came on shift, so
when I came, he says, these are the four dates I've been given this date on this
date, and this date on this date, and this date on this date, and this date on this
date. And he was pissed about it. But, is in the kitchen pointing at
the board, now whether or not you see us two talking, I don't know because
I'm standing- the camera's here, so I'm probably standing back behind the
camera, but the conversation we had should be recorded because
pointing at the board.
KARLEWICZ: Right, and that's all he wrote on that board was the dates.
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: There wasn't any notes or anything else-
No, just the dates.
KARLEWICZ: And that, again you said that's middle to end ofMarch.
(
(
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Sometime, don't have a real good idea of what day it would have been?
Uh-uh (no)
KARLEWICZ: Okay.
Sometime before he got out, cause I don't remember when I said you can,
when did I go on vacation? 25th, so previous to the 25th of March.
KARLEWICZ: So middle of March say the 15th to the 25th would be a good -
Somewhere in there would yeah would be a go9d guess.
KARLEWICZ: 15
1
h through 25
1
h. Within a 10 day period give or take.
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Are all of the Jailers qualified to use the taser?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Are they each issued a taser or do they share them?
We have shared.
KARLEWICZ: And how many people share. Is it uh two people share one taser, is it there's
a pool oftasers and you come in and you grab one?
Yes, we have a pool of tasers.
KARLEWICZ: There's a pool, okay. Is there any log, written log that shows who had what
taser on what particular day?
No.
KARLEWICZ: So, there's no way of knowing if you, if we did a download of a taser, there's
no way of knowing urn, who had it during the time the taser was used.
rnrn-rnrn (no)
KARLEWICZ: Okay, who's responsible for testing the taser?
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
For testing them?
KARLEWICZ: Yes.
Each officer at start of shift.
KARLEWICZ: At start of shift, everybody tests their tasers before-
Sometimes.
KARLEWICZ: Sometimes?
You're supposed to but-
KARLEWICZ: And do you follow the same procedure?
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Has there ever been a time when you used force while on duty and did not
document it?
Not really. (I'm not sure I heard this right)
KARLEWICZ: Do you always remain professional when you're on duty?
Yes. To inmates, yes. Staff, maybe not.
KARLEWICZ: You let your hair down on occasion, just-
I'll joke withjust about everyone.
KARLEWICZ: Have you ever had any conversations with other city employees regarding
your displeasure with Sgt.
Other than Manager Bartley- yeah probably.
KARLEWICZ: With other Jail staff possibly.
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: Do you have any specific recollections of any such conversations?
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
Yeah, he uh tried to have an internal started on because
had some dope baggies that we kept finding in inmates property. It was part
of the whole 3B problem. So he had shown them, hey we found these again,
King County pulled them off a guy that we were transporting. I want to show
3B that we don't take these. I said that's fine, not right now, throw them in
your locker and when we come back in- cause at the time we thought we
were coming back in to train them. Throw them in your locker and when you
come in to train them, show them that we don't take these baggies. Uh,
found out that those baggies were in there. They're empty, there's
nothing in them, but he made accusations that was storing dope in his
locker, it wasn't properly categorized, it should have been placed in evidence,
and he wanted formal charges brought. Yeah, that pissed me off. Urn, the
Chief dismissed the whole thing because there was nothing in those baggies,
and it's more of a in my opinion it's you're going to try and make my crew
and me look bad so you don't look as bad.
KARLEWICZ: So what was the gist ofthe conversations you had with the other Jailers
regarding that and regarding your displeasure with attempting to
do that?
That it was bullshit.
KARLEWICZ: So again, more of a venting type thing.
Yeah.
KARLEWICZ: It wasn't uh anything more than that.
Yeah, just venting. Now I talked to his staff about him because they voiced
their displeasure.
KARLEWICZ: And who is usually the initiator ofthose conversations?
Them, because they were calling me at home and I've actually turned that,
hey you've got your sergeant. Make sure your sergeant knows about it. Call
your sergeant first.
KARLEWICZ: Is that something that's happened more in the past, or is it still ongoing?
No, it doesn't happen no, because they've been called, you know what, don't
call me.
KARLEWICZ: Do you believe that Sgt. is an ineffective supervisor and if so
why?
(

KARLEWICZ:

KARLEWICZ:

KARLEWICZ:

KARLEWICZ:

KARLEWICZ:

KARLEWICZ:

KARLEWICZ:

STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
I do, because he won't make a decision.
So is that the only reason, just indecisiveness?
Yes. In what we do yeah, that's enough for me. If somebody comes to you
with a question or a problem, they're coming to you for a reason.
Have you shared your opinions with Manager Bartley with respect to Sgt.
supervisory abilities.
Yes.
And what has been her reaction generally.
She's working on it.
How.
That was generally what I got. Working on it.
So you don't know any details, that was just, I'm going to work on it.
Yeah.
Has she ever expressed a need for any type of cooperation to your concems
regarding Sgt.
Yes, like I said, it was in my eval. Work better, try to bridge a gap. The A
side B side thing which I still can't figure out why I'm being held responsible
for the whole disparity between the two crews. I'm running my crew. His
crew is calling me, but it's my fault.
Okay. So, when you would come to Manager Bartley with a complaint, or
venting, whatever it was, did she ever express a need to corroborate what you
were saying through some other means __ somebody else. Did she ever
discuss that with you.
No, she didn't discuss that. I mean, when I'd go to Manager Bartley and tell
her the problems we're experiencing, she listens, she doesn't tell me what her
game plan is, she would just listen and say okay and that would be about the
extent of it. She wouldn't tell me her, what she planned on doing with it, but
that was my place to vent.
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT
KARLEWICZ: Okay. Uh, see, is there anything else about this incident that you'd like to tell
me about?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Have you been completely honest and forthright with your answers during
this interview?
Yes.
KARLEWICZ: Is there anyone else who has information related to this investigation that we
should talk to?
Other than
-----
KARLEWICZ: But no other Jail staff that you're aware of, other city employees, anybody
else that you're aware of that has any, that might have any information about
and the letter, the complaint, that kind of thing?
No.
KARLEWICZ: Nobody else that would have information that uh would corroborate your
assertion that you haven't used force without documenting it?
Yeah, that's no.
KARLEWICZ: Okay, I can't think of any other questions, so we'll conclude the interview
and the time is approximately 1144.
( (
RENTON POLICE DEPARTMENT
INTERNAL AFFAIRS
OFFICER NOTIFICATION
03-09
-,-------
Complaint Number
Sergeant , per Article 15, Section B of the Commissioned I
Non-Commissioned Contract, I am notifying you that a formal investigation is being conducted
in which you are considered a:
XX_ Subject
Witness
---
The allegations of the investigation include the following violations of the General Orders of the
Renton Police Department:
City Policy 300-3 Harassment, General Order 1.3.1 Use of Force, General Order 26.1.1B
Unbecoming Conduct, General Order 26.1.1YY Ethics, Auxiliary Services SOP 038,
Employee/Inmate Fraternizing, General Order 26.1.1 IT Code of Conduct and
Appearance, Truthfulness - Upon the order of the Chief of Police, the Chiefs designate, or
a superior officer, members of the Police Department shall fully and truthfully answer all
questions specifically directed, and narrowly relating to the performance of official
duties, or fitness for office, which may be asked of them. General Order 26.1.1 Q
Insubordination, Members of the Police Department shall promptly obey any lawful
orders of a superior officer. This will include orders relayed from a superior officer by an
officer of the same or lesser rank.
If you are considered a suspect in this investigation, you have the right to Guild representation at
the time ofthe interview.
I have scheduled the interview for May 5, 2009 at/{ S(Gours.
If you have any questions, let me know.
PD _ Admin!Milosevich/COFonns
( (
INTERNAL AFFAIRS
.ACCUSED OFFICER ADMONITION
03-09
Complaint Number
Today's date is May 5, 2009 ______ at __ _,/_-=-:::;_"'
6
_C _______ hours. I am
Commander Clark Wilcox interviewing Sergeant
-----
regarding a complaint of City Policy 300-3 Harassment, General Order 1.3.1 Use of Force,
General Order 26.1.1B Unbecoming Conduct, General Order 26.1.1YY Ethics, Auxiliary
Services SOP 038, Employee/Inmate Fraternizing, General Order 26.1.1 TT Code of
Conduct and Appearance,Truthfulness Upon the order of the Chief of Police, the Chiers
designate, or a superior officer, members of the Police Department shall fully and
truthfully answer all questions specifically directed, and narrowly relating to the
performance of official duties, or fitness for office, which may be asked of them.
26.1.1 Q Insubordination, Members of the Police Department shall promptly obey any
lawful orders of a superior officer. This will include orders relayed from a superior
officer by an officer of the same or lesser rank.
which is alleged to have between June 2008 to May 4, 2009 at unknown hours.
________ , do you understand that this conversation is being
, do you wish to have a Guild Representative present
during this interview? Yes r No)
Let the record reflect that ,j:; 1' /}JV l_ f'"ovU is present. Please
acknowledge your presence by stating your name. (Stating ofName)
Sergeant , to this interview, were you given the opportunity to .
read the complaint of this incident? No) W given an opportunity to consult with
your Guild Representative prior to this interview? No)
Sergeant , I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of
an official investigation of the Renton Police Department. You will be asked questions specifically
directed and narrowly related to the performance of your official duties or fitness for office.
You are reminded that Section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the Renton Police
Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfully respond. Any
refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in General Orders Section 26.1.
You are entitled to all the rights and privileges guaranteed by law and the Constitution of the
United States, including the right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself.
I further wish to advise you that if you refuse to testify or answer questions relating to the
performance of your official duties or fitness for duty, you will be subject to departmental
charges which could result in your dismissal from the Renton Police Department.
I
\. If you do answer, neither your statements nor any information or evidence which is gained by
reason of such statements can be used against you in any subsequent criminal proceeding.
However, these statements may be used against you in relation to subsequent departmental charges.
PD _Admin!Milosevich/COForms
Guild Representative
PD Admin!Milosevich/COF arms
STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT -part 2
INTERVIEWER: Commander Clark Wilcox
DATE: May 5, 2009
1506
WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:
SKELTON:
WILCOX:

WILCOX:

Today's date is May 5
1
h, 2009, and it's 1506 hours. And I am Commander
Clark Wilcox interviewing Sgt. regarding a complaint of city
policy 300-3 Harassment, General Order 1.3.1 Use afForce, General Order
26.1.1B Unbecoming Conduct, General Order 26.1.1 YY Ethics, Auxiliary
Services SOP 038 Employee Inmate Fraternization, General Order 26.l.l.TT
Code of Conduct in Appearance, Trustworthiness upon the order of the Chief
of Police and the Chief designee for a superior officers, members of the Police
Department shall fully and truthfully answer all questions specifically and
directed and narrowly relating to the performance of the official duties or
fitness for office, which may asked ofthem, and General Order 26.1.1Q
Insubordination. Members of the Police Department shall properly obey all
lawful orders of a superior officer. This will include orders relayed from a
superior officer by an officer at the same or lesser rank, which is to have
alleged to have occurred between June 2008 to May 4
1
h, 2009 at unknown
hours. Sgt. do you understand that this conversation is being
tape-recorded?
Yes.
Sgt. do you wish to have a Guild representative present during
the interview?
Yes.
Let the record reflect that Sgt. Dave Skelton is present. Please acknowledge
your presence by stating your name.
Dave Skelton.
Sgt. prior to this interview, were you given the opportunity to
read the complaint of the incident?
Yes.
Were you given the opportunity to consult with your Guild representative prior
to this interview?
Yes.
(
WILCOX:

WILCOX:
STATEMENT OF
Sgt. I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part
of an official investigation of the Renton Police Department. You will be
asked questions specifically directed, and nanowly related to the performance
of your official duties or fitness for office. You are reminded that section
26.1 Insubordination and Truthfulness of the Renton Police Department
General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfully respond.
Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in General
Orders Section 26.1. You are entitled to all the rights and privileges
guaranteed by law and the Constitution of the United States including the
right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself. I further wish to further to
advise you that if you refuse to testify or answer questions relating to the
performance of your official duties or fitness for duty you will be subject to
departmental charges which could result in your dismissal from the Renton
Police Department. If you do answer, neither your statements nor any
information or evidence which is gained by results, or by reason of such
statements can be used against you in any subsequent criminal proceedings.
However, these statements may be used against you in relation to the
subsequent departmental charges. Do you understand all this?
Yes.
W auld you please sign here that you understood that and also the
representative of Sgt. Dave Skelton. And we have all signed the Renton
Police Internal Affairs Accused Officer Admonishing paperwork. I want to
read you one more thing to make sure we have everything in order here.
This is a Renton Police Department Internal Affairs Officer Notification
which I gave you yesterday. It states that Sgt. per Article 15
Section B, the Commissioned-Non-Commissioned Contract, I'm notifying
you that a formal investigation is being conducted which you are considered a
subject in. The allegations of an investigation include the following General
Orders of the Renton Police Department. City Policy 300-3 Harassment,
General Order 1.3.1 Use afForce, General Order 26.1.1B Unbecoming
Conduct, General Order 26.1.1.1 YY Ethics, Auxiliary Services SOP 038
Employee Inmate Fraternization, General26.1.1 TT Code of Conduct in
Appearance Truthfulness upon the order of the Chief of Police, the Chiefs
designee or a superior officer, members ofthe Police Department shall fully
and truthfully answer all questions specifically directed and narrowly relating
to the performance of official duties or fitness for office which may be asked
ofthem and General26.1.1Q Insubordination. Members ofthe Police
Department shall properly obey any lawful order or orders of a superior
officer. This will include orders relayed from a superior officer by an officer
of the same or lesser rank. And this is the sheet of paper that I gave you
yesterday I think, correct?

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

STATEMENT OF
JAIL SERGEANT part 2
Correct.
And yesterday afternoon I told you that the interview would be at 1645 hours,
but we're here today at uh 1506 hours per the request to conduct the interview
prior to that time, correct?
Correct.
Sgt. I have some questions for you. Do you lmow the contents of the
City Harassment Policy regarding workplace harassment?
Yes.
What are those?
What are the contents?
Yes, sir.
Harassment is defined in the workplace as creating an uncomfortable
environment, uh, negative unwanted talking, touching, urn and creating a
hostile work environment.
Okay. Do you believe your words, actions, or conduct as a supervisor can
sway subordinates thoughts or conduct towards other members of the
department?
Thoughts? Yes.
Do you believe that your actions or conduct can also sway those?
Yes.
You stated in your previous interview with Commander K.arlewicz that you
talked to trustees almost every day. During your conversations with Trustees,
do you discuss with them issues regarding the Jail staff?
With the Jail staff, no.
Do you discuss issues with them regarding Jail staff issues or personnel
issues?
Personnel issues, no.
(
WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

STATEMENT OF
Have you ever had a conversation about Jail performance issues with any
Trustee?
No.
When you had a conversation about the SCORE facility, what was the
content or the details of those conversation with Trustee
Where and how big.
And those are the only details that you -
Where it was being built and how big it was going to be.
Did you ever have a conversation with Trustee stating or regarding
Sgt. performance as a supervisor?
Uh, yeah, but it was one-sided. It was - inmate was upset with
for not giving him a hard date on his release. He had a whole
chart drawn out to show me when I got on shift. He was upset with
He had a lot of nice things to say about sarcastically
and I told him if he's got a beef to file with how to file a
complaint.
So you had a conversation, but you didn't specifically say anything about Sgt.
performance to
No. I said he said he's an idiot, he's incompetent and somebody should be
told about him. I said, if you want to say he's an idiot and he's incompetent
and he doesn't lmow what he's doing, put it on a letter.
So did you ever use the words that Sgt. was incompetent, cannot
make a decision, or is indecisive, uh indecisive to Trustee
They were his words that I used back with him.
But you never said those words -
No.
to him. You never used those words -
I never said Sgt. an incompetent.
WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

STATEMENT OF
Incompetent, can't make a decision-
Can't make a decision and
Indecisive.
Indecisive, no. He had said those things and I had said if you want to write
that on down and send it to Commander Wilcox, that's your right.
And you're talking about
Yep.
You said that to, okay. Did you ever use the words that Sgt. was
incompetent, cannot make a decision, or was indecisive to other members of
the Jail staffwho are subordinate to Sgt.
Yeah, probably.
Why would you do that as a supervisor?
It was more of a, they come to me with a complaint. I deal with them all the
time and after seven years after complaining about it, I'm venting mainly.
Okay. So when you receive complaints about, from Jail staff members, urn,
let me read you the question. When you receive complaints about Jail staff
members, what do you do with those complaints?
Prior to you, I'd take them to Manager Bartley.
When you have received complaints about Sgt. what do you
usually do with those complaints?
Inmate grievance kites type of things, or just by staff?
Well, let's just go by staff first of all, then we'll hit inmates.
Staff typically we don't talk about Sgt. very often. The only staff
member I have that really has an issue with him would be Officer
cause my guys don't work for him. His staff has issues with him and they
talk to me about it from time to time, but I don't see them very often.
(
(
WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:
STATEMENT OF
Okay, so most of it is that your dealings with Sgt. relate to Officer
cause he sees him Monday through Friday and the three on three off
schedule.
Correct.
How about with inmates. Do you have any complaints from inmates about
Sgt.
Not that I can recall other than the typical uh inmate who have seen all
of us.
And that's the female in the Jail that-
Yeah, that was the female that didn't like any ofus.
Okay.
Those were the typical complaints. They didn't like any of us.
Okay. Did you talk to Manager Bartley about those complaints from
members of the Jail staff?
Yes.
Did you talk any of your subordinates about those complaints?
Yeah, we talked about it all the time.
And what specifically do, give me a generalization of what those complaints
are about when they come to you.
Urn, one ofthe complaints was Sgt. telling him to release people so
they can make room for whoever they were booking. They didn't want to do
it. They wouldn't ask Sgt. because he wouldn't make a decision
or he'd tell them to go ahead and do it. That was a complaint they'd have.
Okay.
Another one would be, it got to a point where they just wouldn't ask Sgt.
for a decision. They'd just make it on their own and hope that
they made the right one.
And how long has this been going on?
(SS/l:Complaints/C0-03-09- 6
(

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

WILCOX:

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Three, two or three years?
Okay, when these complaints have come to you from your subordinates, how
did you address them?
I told them if they have, ifthere's any doubt call me.
Okay. When you brought those complaints up to Manager Bartley, did she
give you any advice on how to handle them?
No, typically, she said she'd address it.
So she said she would handle that and you did not have to.
Yeah, it's not, it wasn't my place.
Did you ever talk with your peer Sgt. about these complaints?
No.
When talked to you about his frustration getting his release date, did
you use the words that Sgt. cannot make a decision?
No. Well, I might have. He gave him four different dates. So I might have
said, well, if Sgt. not going to make a decision, I'll make it. I
gave him Aprill st as a release date.
Okay. Did ever ask you for a release date prior to the
middle ofMarch?
yes.
Do you know when that was? Approximately months?
Probably a month before and I had told him he had to wait until it got closer.
So you never -
I never gave him a date.
And you did- and your response to that question was ....
Wait until it's closer.
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Closer. Why do you think that he would only ask Sgt. for his
release date since you were a Sgt. Also?
I'm not sure, he, he had asked Sgt. on four separate occasions and
if would give him a date, then he, I don't lmow why he kept asking
him for a different dates. I'm not sure.
Did you get along with
Yes.
When complained about Sgt. what did you tell him to
do?
Told him he could put it on, put in a, file a complaint if he wanted to.
So did you tell to, what to put in the letter-
No.
-ifhe wrote it or alluded to what he should put in the letter to the Jail
Commander?
No. I told him if he wants to- the subjects that we- the subject we were
talking about and the way he was saying it, I had told him if you want to file a
complaint, you can put what you just told me in your letter.
And what subject were you talking about then at that time?
Uh, Sgt. ability to make decisions.
And that came from or did that come from you because of the four
dates that were on the board, did you say that cannot make a
decision?
No, that came from He had drawn it out as an example to show me
that Sgt. won't make up a date for him.
Did complain about any other Jail staffmember besides Sgt.

No.
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You stated in your prior interview with Commander Karlewicz that you did
not have a conversation, then you stated that you did have a conversation with
regarding Sgt. perfom1ance. Did you or did you not
have a conversation with regarding Sgt. performance?
No, I stated the same conversation we just discussed. I went into the kitchen,
he has the four dates on the board, and we discussed his four dates, different
dates, that I gave him a date and that if he wanted to file a complaint, he
needed to file one and send it up to you.
So, was there anything in that conversation that you had with about
referring to Sgt. job performance?
No.
When you were talking to him.
had made all the ac-all the accusations. He had said all the negative
things about Sgt. All I said is if you've got a complaint with Sgt.
you can put it on paper and you can send it up to Commander
Wilcox.
Did you correct the inmate when he was making comments about a
Jail staff member?
No.
Why not.
Because to me all he's doing is what the rest of them do is vent. He was mad.
But if he was venting and mad, why would you suggest to him that if he- to
put it on paper and send it to the Jail Commander?
Because he had stated that someone should know about what's going on.
And wouldn't you be a wheel to relay that information since you're a jail
supervisor also?
I would be.
And why did you not approach the situation as a supervisor in the Jail if you
believe that this issue was a valid issue?
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His complaint, as another peer, he's complaining about my peer. Ifi, if he
complains to me and I bring it up again, I've already broughten Sgt.
performance up a number of times.
And who did you bring those performance issues up to?
Manager.Bartley.
At any time did you bring them up to the current Jail Commander, i.e.,
myself?
No, the only time we've had a discussion was on the food order.
And why do you feel being a supervisor, being a peer supervisor, that it was
okay to recognize an issue in the Jail, a performance issue in the Jail, or
possible performance in the Jail, where it reflects on the Renton Police
Department, the Renton Jail and not be responsible to bring that information
up to the Jail Commander?
I didn't think anything of it, I didn't actually think would write the
letter.
Even if you didn't think would write the letter, if this was another
issue in the Jail, with an employee would you deal with that to address it, or
would you think that it's just not part of the I don't need to do it because it
does not fall within my supervisory area?
I'm not sure what you're asking.
You as a supervisor in the Jail are required by your rank to identify, hold
employees accountable, and address issues.
Correct.
f
h f 'b'l'
I you saw an Issue wit one o your JSSllS', IS It not your responsi I Ity to
address that issue?
Yes.
Is it not your responsibility to address issues if you see that other members of
the department, no matter what their rank is, and make sure that's taken care
to address that issue?
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Yes, and in this case I did. His complaint was his release date. I gave him a
hard release date. He wants to file a complaint. I tell him how he can file a
complaint.
And if he did not write the letter, when were you going to, did it even cross
your mind to bring it up to the Jail Commander that there's a possible issue in
the Jail with another supervisor.
I figure that issue had been brought up enough.
With the past administration in the Jail, correct?
Correct.
Okay. You stated in your previous interview that Sgt. gave
four different release dates. Do you know when those release dates
were given to
No.
Could any of those release dates been correct release dates?
Been correct release dates?
Could they have been the correct date for his release?
They were all different dates. And they were different than the actual date I
gave him.
Right, different date than you gave him. But the four release dates that
said that Sgt. gave him, could any one ofthose dates been
a correct release date?
Yes.
Could it have been a range depending on inmates conduct for the last month
of their confinement?
Yes.
Have you ever given a range of possible release dates to a Trustee depending
on their conduct at a later time?
No.
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Could there ever be a reason to change a Trustee's release date, or do you
give them a firm date and that's it?
I give them a firm date.
And that's it.
And that's it. They stilllmow if they mess up they can still lose it, but that's
the date that they can make their plans to be released.
When you heard from other Jail staff members that was upset with
Sgt. what was your intent when you talked to
To calm down.
How upset was he?
Well, he went through the trouble ofwriting down the four dates and had a
whole speech prepared for me when I walked in the kitchen.
Did you ever see the dates on that board prior to this occasion?
No.
Which Jail staff member told you was upset over his release date?
I believe and .
Was your intent to get information about Sgt. not making a
decision so you could pass it on to the Jail Commander to confirm that Sgt.
has a supervisory issue?
No.
During th1s conversation with did you use the words that Sgt.
could not make a decision, was indecisive, and that you could and
would make a decision?
No. I may have used the words, won't make a decision, indecisive, but they
were his words.
words.

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words.
And you just -
Relayed it back to him. If you want to say he's indecisive, or can't make a
decision, then you can put it on paper.
When you told that he needed to put it in writing ifhe had a
complaint about Sgt. did you tell him to put in the letter that Sgt.
could not make a decision or allude to it?
No, I told him you can put in your letter what you just told me.
And that was -
That he's won't make a decision, basically was just mad, he
wouldn't make a decision, and was incompetent in his opinion.
And those were opinion, not your opinion to
Correct.
Correct. How do you think was able to come up with those words,
indecisiveness, incompetent, and unable to make a decision?
I don't know, his vocabulary- I don't know.
Don't you think those are very specific words, that we use as supervisors and
staff around the Jail, or not the Jail, the department, period?
Yeah.
So you think he heard those words prior to this?
He could have.
Who do you think he'd hear those words from. That he would say that this is
gospel or that he believes that Sgt. was indecisive, incompetent
and cannot make a decision?
Any one ofthe Jail staff members.
Anyone on the A side and B side?

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A side and B side.
So everybody has that feeling.
Pretty much, yeah.
Has anybody on the Jail staff ever used those words around you referring to
Sgt. abilities?
Yes.
And who were those folies, or department members?
Uh, Officer , the new guy, Officer , and .
And who do they currently work for?
Sgt. Officer , Officer t-
And who does Officer and work for?
Me. However just came over to me.
When did uh Officer come over to your side?
' { ~ '
January of a s ~ li'ot just come over to me.
January of 08 then?
Yeah.
How long did he work for Sgt. prior to coming over?
Seven years, six or seven years.
You stated in your previous interview that Manager Bartley told you Sgt.
was not receiving a favorable eval. Did she tell you that Sgt.
was indecisive, could not make a decision and was a borderline
incompetent?
No.
Were you told by members of the Jail staff that wanted to talk to you
and did they tell you what the request was for?

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wanted to talk to me?
Talk to you?
Yeah, the day I came in about his good time.
And did they tell you what it was about?
His good time.
His good time. Did they tell you that it was about release date?
Yeah.
So that would be the good time, okay. How did Sgt. decision
making abilities get into the conversation with you and
The four different dates.
And that conversation came up on your part? Or part?
part. Like I said when I walked in he had four different dates
written down on the board and a speech prepared.
And that was
That was
But any of those dates on the board could have been correct and they weren't
there prior on your last time you were in the kitchen and looked at the board,
correct?
Correct, they were in his writing.
In writing?
Yes.
Are early releases for Trustees required to be approved by the Jail
Commander prior to giving a release date?
Typically no, but we typically let the Jail Commander know, for approval.
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So are you required to receive approval for release dates of more than seven
days by the Jail Commander?
Yeah.
Previously, you ran the release dates by Manager Bartley if they were greater
than seven days. On this occasion, occasion, you did not confer with the Jail
Commander. Why is that?
I didn't think anything of it. I figured with the amount oftime that he had
been in there, that 14 days was fair and adequate. It had been past practice, so
I didn't think you'd have issue with it.
Past practice without approval, or past practice that's over seven days that
you're supposed to get approval for a release of a Trustee?
Well, there is no policy on I have to get approval by the Commander if I'm
given 'em extra good time.
But in the past, you've always gotten approval prior, if you gave over more
than seven days, correct?
Typically, yeah.
And this time you did not.
No.
And that would reason because again sorry I didn't hear it.
There's no reason, I just didn't. I didn't think anything of it.
Were you surprised that wrote a letter to the Jail Commander?
I was.
Why were you surprised?
Because typically, everybody wants to file a complaint and no one ever does.
But did you not encourage him to write the letter?
I didn't encourage him, I told him how to.
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And how did you tell him to write the letter.
If he wants to file a complaint that he could put his words on paper and send
it to you.
What subordinates have expressed their concerns with you about Sgt.
performance. What have you done with that information?
I either just ignore it because it's been told so many times I imagine several
different people, or I take it up again.
Do you advise Manager Bartley?
I did initially, but over the past couple years, not really.
So that's different from what you've stated earlier. That you did advise her,
you would advise her of it but-
I did, I have and I have, and I did, do I always, no.
And you have not done that in the last couple years?
No, I've done it in the last couple years, but I haven't done it every time it's
come down the pike.
And you've never addressed it with Sgt. to help him out as a co-
supervisor?
No.
Did Manager Bartley ever give you any advice on what to do to help out?
No.
Have you ever asked any other person in the department for advice and how
to help resolve this issue?
No.
Have you ever talked to Sgt. regarding his performance and passed
down what others think ofhis supervisory skills?
No.
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Why not. Wouldn't you think that would be the professional thing to do?
Coming from me, probably not. I think would take it as another
personal attack.
Why would he take it as a personal attack if you guys work together in the
same department, the same Jail, just on different sides?
Why would he think it's a personal attack?
Yes.
Because ifi go to him and say that I think your leadership style's lacking and
here's why, that's my opinion and that's how he's going to take it.
Have you ever addressed that with him and said, this is what I see you're
doing wrong, or what we could improve on, or was it always directed as an
attack to where it was not a helpful communicative way to do something?
No, we just never communicated period about how he does things, or how I
do things.
In your opinion is Sgt. a incompetent or is it just that your views
and supervisory skills are 180 degrees out from one another like you're more
black and white and he's more in the gray area?
I'm more black and white, and I don't even know ifhe's in the gray area.
You stated in your previous interview with Commander Karlewicz that
Manager and you had a discussion related to Sgt. eval. When
she told you about the evaluation, that it was not favorable, did she also use
the words that he could not make a decision, was incompetent as a
supervisor?
No, all she told me was that he got a negative, or needs improvement eval.
Do you still have conversations with Manager Bartley regarding issues in the
Jail?
Yes.
What are these conversations about? Are they about performance issues with
members ofthe Jail staff?
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These days, no not really. Urn, what's just typically what's going on. How
are things in the Jail.
Lik) give me an example please.
Day to day business. How's it working for you? Other than that, she knows
how the Jail's run or being run.
And how does she know how the Jail's being run, when she's not associated
with the Jail anymore as she's dealing with SCORE and her uh attendance at
work is at our building is less and less because she's away from the building
more.
Because she was in charge of it for the past 10 years and business doesn't
change.
J \'\){ 11#)
So you have phone or email conversations with her,
Yeah.
Over issues in the Jail?
Just the day to day business. If I have a question that I don't know the answer
to, I'll call her and ask her as well.
Why do you call and ask her instead of the Jail Commander, i.e. me now?
I do call you now. The last time I had a question, I believe I did call you and
ask you.
Yes, you did. Which Jail staff members do you have conversations about?
With Manager Bartley?
.
What do you discuss with Officer about?
Oh, just how he's doing out at the academy.
Who else do you have conversations about?
That's about it other than uh the last time we talked about was that
he got a negative eval.
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And that is when you guys were going to the SCORE meeting in Seattle?
Yeah.
That's the only other times that you have talked about Jail staff members with
Manager Bartley? Those two?
Recently, recently, yeah.
And what was the last recently time that you've talked with her about the
issues in the Jail?
Today.
And what did you discuss with her today about Jail issues?
Today was mainly how the trip was in Kentucky and what's going on with
SCORE. Not necessarily downstairs.
Would it surprise you ifl told you that Officer and I had a
conversation about this internal investigation?
No.
How much information did you tell him about the letter and harassment and
use of force and other allegations against you?
Oh, just that I thought it was crap, pretty much. That pretty much sums it up.
When did you and Officer compare the allegations of the complaint?
Urn, the day you served him as a subject when I came on shift and he handed
me his sick slip cause he was going home and I had looked at his paperwork
and I was coming up to ask you what was going on and you served me with
mme.
Did you and Officer talk about the questions I asked during the
interview?
No.
So you did not have a conversation with Officer after or post
interview with Commander Karlewicz?
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I think, no I went home right after that.
So you did not talk to Officer about your response, YOUR responses
to the questions asked in the interview?
No.
Did you talk to anybody else?
Yes.
Who did you talk to?
Oh, I vented probably to whoever was working staff that day.
Would it surprise if I told you that Officer and I had a
No.
Is he one of the persons that you vented to?
Yes, he was on staff.
So what information did you tell him about the allegations, the letter, the
harassment, the use of force allegations?
Again, that I thought it was crap. I wasn't specific about the nature of the
charges just that I thought the charges were garbage.
So you had, you did not talk to him-
I didn't go into depth to him about what it was all about. I just said these are
the charges that I'm accused of and I think it's crap.
Did you also talk to Officer
He was probably in the control room, but I didn't specifically talk to him.
So did you talk to Officer about the questions asked during the
interview?
No.
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Would it surprise you that Officer and I were to have a conversation
about this internal investigation.
Yeah.
When you talked to Officer what did you tell him about the letter, the
harassment, and the allegations against you?
Again, that I thought it was crap.
What else did you relay to Officer
Pretty much the samy thing that I've relayed to everyone else, just what I was
charged with and thaMhis was trash.
:r
You did not go into the responses with him?
No.
You did not go into the questions with him?
No.
Did you tell him that his name was mentioned in the investigation and that he
should be prepared to be served the notice of the allegations?
No.
Would it surprise you that Commander and I were to have a
No.
What information did you tell her about the letter, the harassment, and the use
of force and other allegations?
I talked to Commander the day of, right after the interview.
And what was Commander s response when you discussed the
questions with her during the interview or post interview?
Again, I was vague with Commander She reminded me of the gag
order, so it was a brief discussion about what my charges and allegations
were and then we went into talking about my son.
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And what was Commander s response when you discussed the
interview?
,q<;jL-et> t:>ul()&l
She was more of just there to listen to me vent.
What advice did she give you?
To uh stop talking about it now.
Did you go to her officer and talk with her or did she call you in the office?
I went to her office. I just stopped by to see her.
Prior to discussing the internal with Commander did you in any
way indicate or asked that the conversation be kept between the two or you?
No.
At any time during or after discussing the internal with Commander
did you in any way indicate or ask that the conversation be kept
between the two of you?
No, I lmew, at that point I lmew when, when what's it called, gag order, I
lmew I broken the gag order and I had stated to her, that I know I've broken
the gag order.
And what was her response?
Stop talking about. Then that's when we switched up to talking about my
son.
And how much conversation did you have about the internal with her before?
Basically, it was just like everyone else. I had stated the charges, told them
what I thought, told her what I had thought about 'em.
Did you in any before or after the conversation with Commander
that you had been ordered not to discuss the internal with anyone?
Well, yeah, like I had said, I stated that I knew I was breaking the gag order.
And what was her reaction?

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Then stop talking about it.
Are you aware that subsequent to your conversation regarding the internal
with Commander that she was questioned about the content of the
conversation by Deputy Chief Marsalisi?
No.
Did she, did you have another conversation with her. Did she tell you that
she told Deputy Chief Marsalisi about the content of your conversation you
two had together?
No.
So you don't know if she's been truthful or not?
I don't know, I didn't know she talked to Deputy ChiefMarsalisi.
What additional conversations related to Commander did you have.
Have you had any other conversations with Commander
No, not since that day, no.
Would you be surprised you that Manager Bartley and I had a conversation
about this internal investigation?
No .
. How much information did you tell her about the letter, the harassment, the
use of force and other allegations against you?
Pretty much the same as I've told everyone else. Just what I was being
charged with.
And what was Manager Bartley's response when you discussed the questions
asked during the interview.
Pretty much the same thing as Commander
And what was?
I've been gagged so let's not talk about it.
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. Did you tell her that you'd been gagged, or did she say that you've been
gagged?
She asked ifi had been gagged and I said yes, and she said, okay, we're not
going to talk about it.
So how many questions did you discuss prior to her asking that question?
I didn't discuss any questions. I just discussed the nature and the
charges. rJb specific questions.
What advise did she give you.
Same thing, not to talk about it.
Who else did you discuss this internal with?
That's pretty- well, girlfriend at home, and my Guild rep.
And no other members of the command staff, the Jail staff, or other members
of the department besides your Guild rep?
Manager Bartley, Commander Sgt. Again, it was brief,
vague and it was just the nature of the charges.
Did you go to Sgt. or did Sgt. come to you?
He was down in my office.
And how did the conversation begin, or brought up with Sgt. with this
internal?
The paperwork was sitting on my desk and I wasn't a happy camper that day.
It was the same day.
And what did you relate to Sgt. on this?
Same thing, nature and charges and that I'm gagged so I'm not going to talk
about it anymore?
Did he ask you any questions on it?
No, he didn't want to know.
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Are you aware that Manager Bartley and Commander are going to
be officially interviewed as part of this internal investigation?
No.
What do you think they're going to - why do you think they're going to be
interviewed as part of this internal investigation?
Because I talked to him?
Are they going to give the same information as you have just given me.
Yeah.
Do you think the information they reveal will prove or disprove your
statements?
It will prove my statements in regards to our conversations.
So what specific things did you discuss i.e. harassment, use of force,
performance issues with Manager Bartley, Commander Sgt.
or any other person?
That was it, exactly that.
What?
The nature of the charges.
Just the allegations?
Just the allegations as laid out on that piece of paper.
And your subjective opinions that you thought the allegations were crap?
Correct.
When I finish interviewing the Jail staff members regarding this internal
investigation am I going to be surprised that you discussed this internal with
everybody down in the Jail?
No, you shouldn't be surprised. I just listed off the entire staff.
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When you had all these conversation with other members, did you forget that
you had been ordered not to discuss the internal with anyone?
No.
If you remembered the order, then why did you violate it?
Probably because I was pissed.
Any other reason?
That's it.
Have you been trained in verbal judo?
Yes.
What is verbal judo.
Being able to use my uh verbal skills to obtain a specific goal.
Have you ever instigated or provoked an inmate to become hostile or
aggressive in their actions so you could use force on them?
No.
Have you been honest in your answers during this interview and the previous
interview with Commander Karlewicz?
Yes.
And all the questions and all the answers?
Yes.
When Commander Karlewicz ended his interview with you, did he give you a
directive not to talk to anyone about this investigation?
Yes.
Did you comply with that directive?
No.
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STATEMENT OF
The last statement I have for you Sgt. I'm giving you a direct order
you are not to talk about this internal investigation with anybody except your
Guild rep. Do you understand this?
Yes.
It is now 1553 hours and I'm concluding this investigation.
INTERNAL AFFAIRS
WITNESS OFFICER ADMONITION
Today' s date is ;;;.;;A=p=ri=l =23=''-=2=0..;;..09:;;.. ______ at / 5"" L; _)
03-09
Complaint Number
hours. I am
Commander Clark Wilcox interviewing Jail Officer
-----
regarding a complaint of City Policy 300-3 Harassment, General Order 1.3.1 Use of Force
General Order 26.1.1B Unbecoming Conduct, General Order 26.1.1 YY Ethics, Auxiliary
Services SOP 038, Employee/Inmate Fraternizing
which is alleged to have occurred between June 2008 to April2009 at unknown hours.
Jail Officer , do you understand that this conversation is being
tape recorded? ~ o r No)
Jail Officer , you are here as a witness in the above listed
complaint, a matter which concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed against you,
and you are not under investigation in this matter.
Jail Officer , I wish to advise you that you are being questioned
as part of an official investigation of the Renton Police Department. You are reminded that
Section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the Renton Police Department General
Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may
result in disciplinary action as outlined in General Orders Section 26.1.
Witness Officer
Assigned Investigator
PD _ Admin!Milosevich/COForms
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STATEMENT OF
I
'I,
JAIL OFFICER
INTERVIEWER: Commander Clark Wilcox
DATE: April21, 2009
1545
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Today's date is April23, 2009, and it's 1545 hours. I'm Commander Clark
Wilcox interviewing EHI) Officer regarding a complaint of City
Harassment RMC Policy 300-3, General Order 26.1.1B Unbecoming Conduct,
General Order 26.l.l.YY Ethics, Auxiliary Services SOP 0-38 Employee
Inmate Fraternization, which is to alleged to have occurred on or about March
2009 at 1645 hours. Do you understand this conversation is being tape-
recorded?
I do.
Jail Officer you are here as a witness in the above-listed
complaint, a matter which concerns another officer. A complaint has not been
filed against you and you are not under investigation in this matter. Jail Officer
I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of an
official investigation of the Renton Police Department. You are reminded that
section 26.1 Insubordination and Truthfulness of the Renton Police Department .
General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfully respond.
Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in General
Order 26.1. Do you understand this?
I do.
I have a series of question to ask you.
What is your position with the Renton Police Department?
Corrections Officer.
As a senior Jail staff member do you believe it is your responsibility to set the
example for your peers to follow?
Yes, it is.
As a member of the Jail staff, do you think it is your responsibility to ensure a
cohesive working releationship are in the workplace?
Yes, it is.
Do you think this responsibility includes good working relationships with both
the A and the B side of the Jail staff?
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STATEMENT OF
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Yes, it is.
Do you think that this responsibility includes working relationships with other
divisions in the department?
Yes.
As a member of the Renton Police Department, are you aware ofthe City's
harassment policy?
lam.
Do you initial that you are aware of the city's harassment policy 300-3 when
you receive your annual evaluation?
I do.
As a member of the Renton Police Department, are you charged with following
the policies and procedures set forth by the City of Renton and the Renton
Police Department?
I'm sorry would you repeat that one.
As a member of the Renton Police Department, are you charged with following
the policies and procedures set forth by the City of Renton and the Renton
Police Department?
Yes.
As a member of the Jail staff, are you charged to report violations to your
direct supervisor when noted?
Yes.
As a member of the Jail staff, are you charged with the health and welfare of
inmates that are in custody of the Renton Police Department?
Yes.
Do you know, or have lmowledge of Auxiliary Services SOP-038 Employee
Inmate Fraternization?
Yes.
(
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Have you ever had a conversation with any inmate regarding the daily
operation of jail procedures or the new jail?
Or the new jail, what do you mean? Sir.
The new facility that's going to be created eventually?
I don't believe so, uh, no, I don't believe I have.
Have you ever heard a member of the Jail staffhaving a conversation with any
inmate regarding other jail staff members within the last 90 days?
Uh, repeat that one as well, sir.
Have you ever heard a member ofthe Jail staff having a conversation with any
inmate regarding other Jail staff members within the last 90 days?
No, sir.
Have you ever had a conversation with any inmate regarding the performance
of any member of the Jail staff?
No.
Have you ever heard of a member of the Jail staff having a conversation with
any inmate regarding the performance of the Jail staff?
No.
Did Trustee ever ask you for his release date during the
month of March 2009?
Yes.
Where did this conversation take place?
Probably either in the courtroom or the kitchen area. Those are the only two
places that he and I primarily ever met you lmow most of the time.
Are you aware of any other Jail staff member that would, that asked
for his release date?
No.
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STATEMENT OF
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Is it custom that inmate asks a supervisor or a Jail staff member for their
release date?
It's not uncommon for an inmate uh to ask any uh staff member their release
dates via kite and/or verbally. Uh, we usually ask for it to come in writing
because of its, it's best to have it in writing first, and then we can properly
research the response. A Trustee is a little bit different because they can, it's
what, they get what's uh called gift time. Urn, it used to be they'd get a special
matrix of time uh based on the length of time they were there and they got
Trustee status. That no longer is applicable due to urn probably two plus years
ago recent legislation forbids that. Now it has to be done by gift time.
Anyhow, that can only be done by the two persons in rank and that is the
sergeants, so that has to be forwarded on to those two individuals. Uh, so if
that individual's interested in their actual bottom line time out, that is
forwarded on to whichever sergeant is on duty.
So the two individuals you're referring to that would-
-are either Sgt. and/or Sgt. whomever is on duty and the
reason I say both individuals is cause both of them- Sgt. is my
primary Sergeant, but I, I work for both of them in the respect that I work
Monday through Friday and and uh, they're both there during those periods of
time.
Okay, have you ever heard any member ofthe Jail staff ask or solicit any
person or inmate to write a letter about the performance of any of the Jail staff?
No.
Have you ever requested or solicited a letter from any person or inmate
regarding another Jail member's performance?
No.
Do you have knowledge of any member of the Renton Jail staff soliciting a
letter from any inmate regarding the performance of any member of the Jail
staff?
No.
Have you ever been directed by a supervisor or any other Jail staff member to
solicit any inmate any written documentation regarding any department
member's performance?

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STATEMENT OF
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No.
Were you present when Sgt. gave inmate his release date
while in the Jail kitchen or approximately thereof?
No. I did see it up on the board and uh Sgt. initials next to it. When
it actually took place. When that took place, I don't lmow. I didn't uh- next
to Sgt. initial I didn't see a date or anything, but I did see whatever
those two dates were. There's always a high and a low, meaning the worst case
scenario and the best case scenario for release date and then I saw ID next to it
for who may ultimately made that decision urn and I believe it
was the month of March. Urn, but I didn't see that take place or I didn't see it
transpire.
So you aren't part of any conversation about that?
No, no sir. Just other than a you know- uh and I in passing, he would
periodically ask have there been any updates on my, on my release time and I
said that's something you're going to have to take up with you lmow either
sergeant whichever one it is that you are able to connect with, and you know,
you know and what it is it's a leap frog type situation. Three on Three off and
you have to you lmow get whichever sergeant it is that you can get ahold of if
they happen to be on weekends or whatever call that particular sergeant and I
don't know who it was that he was working with.
So he could have been working with both sergeants?
Correct. Correct. And ultimately it appears by what I recall on the board, he
ultimately was able to get gift time from Sgt.
And that gift time is because of what reason would an inmate get gift time?
Uh, their work performance and uh the length of time that they've worked for
us. Urn, so uh you know if they only worked for us say for week, 10 days and
they only worked moderate performance, they, I would presume that or
would urn, would afford them a very small amount of extra good time.
And there's some restrictions for instance, one of the persons I just put on as a
Trustee today I can't give him any good time because he's serving off fines so
he knows you have to do 10 days. Uh, he knows that up front, so there is no
gift time involved. It's only persons that are doing straight time. They know
that up front. Most of their benefit comes in the fact that they can Pt:{Zf.IAP.> r-JING:
two meals, they can have some extra phone privileges. They get their own
room. They can perhaps use the rest room with some privacy. Sleep without
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STATEMENT OF
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having to listen to someone snore. Uh, those types of things and those are
things that we explain to them. Uh, you get, those are the benefits that you
mostly get is those types of things. Urn, and then the little bit that you get at
the very end is gravy. Urn, and then when left, not only did he get that
little bit of gift time, we also got him in to a, a uh program. Whether he still is
in it or not, but we got him into a program through mental health professional
with housing and everything.
When you say we, who's we?
Me.
Yourself?
Yeah.
So you assisted to take care of for the inmate health and welfare.
Yeah, I uh, we have uh, well it's actually through Judy has a gentleman that
comes down and talks with these different individuals who fit this type of bill
and happened to be one of them and uh they took him right out of
here. We actually kept him one extra day. They picked him up right at the
front door, rather than send him out of here and have him go back to his poison
which is alcohol and introduced him to some different programs so I know
we're getting off the subject a little bit, but uh, when he left here he was at least
introduced to those types of things.
So he was not given any special days off, he just got what was in accordance
with policy of the gifted time for being a Trustee and working in working out
the sentence.
Correct. To my lrnowledge.
Did you hear that if Sgt. solicited a letter from Trustee state
that he needed to write a letter to the Jail Commander stating that Sgt.
was incompetent before he received his good time?
No, sir.
Did you hear Sgt. tell a Trustee that he needed to write in a
letter that Sgt. did not make a good decision and was indecisive?
No, sir.
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STATEMENT OF
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Were you directed by any member of the Jail staff to talk to inmate
regarding a letter to the Jail commander?
No.
Did you communicate to any member of the Jail that a letter may be written
and tell them what to do with it if it came from
No, sir.
Were you aware that Sgt. talked to inmate about a letter to
the Jail Commander?
No, sir.
You have no information about that at all?
No, sir.
Are you aware that Trustee did write a letter to the Jail Commander?
I heard inklings about it today, but just, when something like this happens, the
least I can hear about it, the better off I am. I heard that there was something
like that that happened, but I, I don't want, I did- I don't want to know.
Who did you hear that from?
Urn, Sgt.
When did Sgt. tell you that?
In generalized conversation.
About what time today was that?
Post interview.
So after he already knew that he was up for urn an interview with an
investigator, which was not me, he went down to the Jail and told you that, did
he tell you what the investigation was about?
No, sir. Not in detail.
Basically, what did he tell you?

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STATEMENT OF
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Just that something about a letter or something, that had taken place and as you
stated early in this, ifl don't tell you the truth, then I'm in trouble, correct?
That's correct. And you have no idea or any presence about the conversation
between Sgt. and inmate ____ _
No, I really do not, I- prior to today's date, I did not.
But today, Sgt. made you aware that he was under investigation for a
letter that an inmate wrote, i.e. wrote to the Jail Commander?
Yes, sir.
Did he say anything else about that?
No, sir.
Did he say who else was involved in it?
Both he and Officer are, are the subject, to what extent I have no idea.
Did Officer say anything to you about the investigation today?
No, sir.
Do you believe that Sgt. is an ineffective supervisor?
In some respects, yes, sir. Urn, I care, I care a lot about Sgt. but I,
there's some things that he and I don't see eye to eye about. Urn, I just, I feel
that urn,-
Is it a difference of opinion, difference of direction, difference of enforcing
policies, or just not enforcing policies?
No. I feel that uh, I feel that there's certain things that you know, that should
be dealt with on a more regular basis down there that aren't. Uh, you know
when, you lmow when we get into the, he and I get in arguments when we get
into differences, or you know making sure things are ordered and, you lmow,
yes, his ideas of priorities is what is to take care, you taking care of and when
it's to be taken care and when you work three days on and you're three days
off, it may slip through the cracks, then consequently we end up not getting it.
Urn,-
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STATEMENT OF
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You're referring to food orders, correct?
It could be anything sir, today for instance uh and this wasn't his, this wasn't
his doings. I ended up having to go-
Does this reflect to the questions that I'm asking you that you have a difference
of opinion about whether he's effective or non-effective supervisor, is that
correct?
Yeah, as far as communication skills and those types of things, urn, one thing
that comes to mind just recently I, I communicate real well with both, both my
supervisor's as well as yourself in my estimation regarding and you guys have
been very good about allowing me to go when you're able to go to SCORE- I
communicated that there was an upcoming, there was upcoming meeting, this
was a couple weeks ago. Urn, well, uh Officer a tendency to you
know at the last minute put in for time off. Well and
consequently I was unable to go to the SCORE meeting cause the way you put
it and I take that, I take that for your word, is that if we're not fully staffed and
we've, or not cameras, but bunlcs going in, urn, that is the first priority and that
was when we were having all the, the eight bunlcs put in. That was our primary
duty at the time. And I, you know, I, I kind oftriajed, or prioritize things. Urn,
so I didn't, I called Penny up and I, and I didn't go that day. So -
What day was that, do you recall.
I could get it off my computer easy enough.
But, it wasn't uh, the days that I authorized you to go?
Yeah, you, you had pre-authorized me under the conditions that we were, that
we were, that we were adequately staffed. And I got to go to the other two the
Monday, Tuesdays. And he and I had a nice discussion down the hallway urn
about the fact that I thought he was upset with the fact that urn he isn't going to
SCORE and I am. I said, I volunteered for it. I said if you want to go to
SCORE, that's fine if you want to go to the SCORE meetings, that's fine,
that's- I'm not trying to undercut you on this. I said, it's just happens to be a
real high interest level of mine and I said if you want to go that's fine, too, or
you can take my place you lmow and it just, the security and safety of the new
facility as well as the food ordering is something that really interests me. Urn,
anyhow, yeah, -
Did he follow department policy, did Sgt. follow department
policy?

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STATEMENT OF
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Yeah, I believe so, urn, I yeah, I believe so.
Did Sgt. follow department policy?
Yes, I believe so.
Do you think he's uh, and ineffective supervisor?
No, sir.
What do you think the difference is between Sgt. and Sgt.
I see their both good people. I see, they are both very approachable. Urn, urn,
but approachable in different senses. Uh, gosh this is hard to explain.
They have different styles.
They have different styles, yes.
Are both styles within policy?
Yes, they are, sir.
Okay. When you said that you contacted Penny to let her know that you could
not go, did you let one of the sergeants know prior to that?
That I was going to be going?
That you were not able to go to the meeting you missed?
Urn, I think I, I think when I called Penny on her cell phone because I, and then
I don't remember whether I shot off an email to him right away or not. There
again, I would have it on my email.' Urn, because I keep all that kind of stuff. I
couldn't tell you offthe top ofmyhead sir.
This maybe a repeat question, but do you, why do you believe there's so much
dissension between the A and the B side squads in the Jail?
You know, Penny asked me that very same question and she asked me what I
really liked about working 5 and 2. And I, I guess I've been doing it close to a
year now or more. And what I, what like the most about it is the fact that I get
to work with both sides and actually feel like I, I like, I like both of them and I,
and I don't see that like perhaps other people maybe do. Urn, I don't know that
there's as much dissension as as people perceive. I really don't. Urn, you
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STATEMENT OF
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know, may, you lmow there's always a certain amount ofum he did that or he
did that you lmow finger pointing going on, urn, there's some of the, not
younger, but urn, less uh, urn, -
experience?
-experienced individuals who work night shift a little more interested in
perhaps urn working on computers and and not doing what perhaps they're
supposed to be doing and it shows up in their work in the morning when we're
doing our when we're going through and checking our, when we're checking
our files. Urn, and that's one ofthings that seems to address that and
doesn't or at least it appears on the surface that he doesn't. Uh maybe
he does and we just don't see it. Uh, we meaning, you gotta, you gotta say A
or B. WeB because I'm a Band an A. I can't, I'm like both. Urn, but I do all,
I kind of do all that. You lmow like today, we're looking at the boards, and the
nurse is going, this person's name is spelled wrong, it's like totally dyslexic
and so is this , was Alder like the tree. Not a big deal until you're
calling out to the guy and he's not answering up because you're calling him an
Alder tree instead of an .
Okay.
You lmow everybody has, you know, you're hurrying, or you're not paying
attention to what you're doing, pay a little more attention to that. You're
forgetting to put your last name- middle names on the deal. You're forgetting
to put addresses on. You're forgetting to put cashes in on warrants. Just little
things and you can see, every morning you go in and you correct little things.
We all make mistakes.
Are these things being taken care ofby supervisors?
What it's got down to now is the guys are just taking care of it and just making
it go away and to a certain extent, Clark, that's the way it should be done, but
it's never going to get corrected if it, ifthe sergeants don't address it, but they
found out that the, at least the one sergeant -
Which one sergeant?
Sergeant doesn't seem to address or at least it appears on the surface
to address it and I don't, it may be the same case with the other sergeant as
well, I don't lmow. And it seems to be the graveyard crew. Uh, they're great
guys, but I think they're just, their focus is a little bit different than the day
shift. The day shifters are just, boom, boom, boom, boom.
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fUI250 I
Do see this issues that come up 6 e l ' J l ? ~ both A side and B side?
I do. It's almost equal. And like I said, I see both sides. So, and there's
nothing where anyone's going to get hurt. These are just, thyse are little things
that just need to be caught and corrected.
Were you ever instructed or encouraged to report or advise Sgt. of any
perceived negative actions or lack of actions regarding Sgt.
duties?
Oh, I probably am a little- no I've never been asked to do anything like that.
I've probably overreacted a little bit too much about, regards to, I was led to
believe by Sgt. that the food order was mine to do. Couple three
months ago and I took that upon myself and I took pride in it. I did it. Sgt.
took oh what's the right word. He's got a lot of ownership to that
uh and didn't like the fact, in my estimation didn't like the fact that I had so.
He would continually, when he was there, would, would take it back, or what
have you. Finally that same day, when I discussed with him down the hallway,
in an empty room, I discussed with him about how I felt about in a professional
manner, in my estimation I felt that he didn't perhaps, he didn't feel that uh, if
he was upset I was going to these SCORE meetings I would no longer go and I
kind of explained to you that earlier. And at the same time I said, and about
this food order situation, obviously that's an issue with you and that's before
this finally came to a head and now I am no longer the persona doing food
orders. I know, but let me explain myself. He was telling me that
was doing all my work for me and all this and that -
Who was telling you that? Sgt.
Well, it wasn't actually necessarily true, I would go inside the refrigerator and
I'd have down there getting freezing cold and I'd have him doing the
actual count and not writing stuff out and then we would do the math together .
was a heck of a good worker and then we would do the math and he
would, you know we would talk about how the uh offset count- no I didn't
make it, all the pretty colored counts like does. Everybody has their
own way of doing things. I did it my way, he does it his way. I kind of got off
(interrupted)
What the question was have you ever, were you ever instructed or encouraged
to report or advise Sgt. any perceived negative actions.
Oh, I got off on a tangent, yes I guess that's how I got off on this tangent. I
guess I've talked to him too much about, I thought food orders were mine. I
talked to him too much about that. I said keep taking it back. And then
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finally he evidently came up and spoke to you and finally lmow it's his and his
so yes in that respect, but in regards to anything else, no sir.
Do you believe there's ongoing harassment in the Jail between employees or
supervisors?
No, sir, I don't believe so. No.
Do you believe that the perceived harassment is just personality dislikes, or is it
fall within the policy that people are jockeying for position trying to overcome
somebody's work performance to get a higher position at the new SCORE
facility or anything?
No. I the way I perceive the SCORE facility is you, as large as that place is
going to be if you want to go over there, uh, and you do, and you do your
homework, you can come in as a Corrections Officer, you could come with a
specialty position, or you could even come in as a supervisor if you did your
homework and you were, and you were fitted, fit that type of position. There's
room for everyone. We're going to be sending the most people over there.
There will be plenty of room for everyone if they so wish. So I don't know that
there's necessarily any jockeying to be done. Urn. You know at least I, as, I
consider myself a senior officer. I don't feel that way no. Urn, do I, I guess I
feel somewhat deflated in the respect in that I lmow you have reasons for what
you have done, I, you taking away the ability for me to do food order, and I
lmow there's reasons why you've done what you've done and I lmow taking
away me having the Cadet Program there's reasons for you doing what you've
done, because I'm not a supervisor. I suspect it's probably your reasoning
behind that. Urn, but I took pride in those things that I had assigned to me
prior to your tenure. Those kinds ofthings are important to me. Uh, but on the
same hand I, I realize you can only do what's within the scope of-
And that we can talk about another time. What I'm concerned now is about
harassment in the workplace, whether or not that you were aware of a
conversation between Sgt. and inmate
No, no.
- release date?
No, sir.
No idea about the letter?
Not until maybe the one little thing that I heard today.
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And what you heard today was from Sgt. post interview-
In quick passing.
A conversation that he referred to that someone may have wrote a letter and
I'm in trouble for, something of that nature?
Yeah, before he went home, yeah.
Okay, it is now, do you have anything else to add Officer
No, sir.
It is 1615 hours and we're concluding this talk Thank you.
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(
INTERNAL AFFAIRS
WITNESS ADMONITION
03-09
Complaint Number
hours. I am Today's date is May 13, 2009 _____ at 16
-------------------
Deputy Chief Tim Troxel interviewing Commander __ __
regarding a complaint ofHarassment, Use of Force & other allegations a g a i n ~ ~ Sgt J.
which is alleged to have occurred on __________________ at ______________ __ hours.
Commander _____________ , do you understand that this conversation is being
tape recorded? (Yes or No)
Commander , you are here as a witness in the above listed
complaint, a matter which concerns a police department member. A complaint has not been filed
against you, and you are not under investigation in this matter.
Commander , I wish to advise you that you are being questioned
Assigned Investigator
PD _Admin!Milosevich!COForms
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STATEMENT OF
COMMANDER
INTERVIEWER: . Deputy Chief Tim Troxel
DATE: May 13,2009
1606
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Okay, we're back on the record. It's 1606. The recorder is working properly.
Again, this is Complaint Number 03-09. This is a witness statement with
Commander Today's date is May 13,2009. I'm Deputy Chief Tim
Troxel interviewing Commander regarding a complaint of
Harassment, Use of Force and other allegations against Sergeant
which is alleged to have occurred over months previous to this. I believe the
interview today is specifically regarding a conversation the last part of April or
in the first ofMaybetween Commander and Sergeant
Commander do you understand this conversation is being tape-
recorded?
I do.
Commander you are here as a witness in the above-listed complaint,
a matter which concerns another Police Department member. A complaint has
not been filed against you and you are not under investigation in this matter.
Commander I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as
part of an official investigation of the Renton Police Department. You are
reminded that section 26.1 Insubordination and Truthfulness of the Renton
Police Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must
truthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as
outlined in General Order 26.1. Do you understand that?
I do.
I'll show you the form and ask that you sign in the witness blank and then I
will sign in the investigator blank. Thank you. The Witness Admonition is uh
been signed and now we're moving on to the questions. Any preliminary
questions before we start Commander
No.
Are you aware of an internal investigation involving Jail staff?
lam.
When did you become aware of the internal?
I couldn't give you the date. Urn, I knew something was going on because
Commander Wilcox urn kept coming in my office looking for Use of Force
STATEMENT OF
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reports. Specifically for the Jail. So I had some inkling I guess that urn
something was brewing, or boiling there. Urn, at some point after Commander
Wilcox started I think actively investigating it, urn, Manager Bartley told me
that there was kind of internal investigation urn going on in the Jail and that urn
she said that Chief Milosevich had touched base with her on that and that it
involved urn urn a letter written by a Trustee. Some kind of letter of complaint
written by a Trustee, urn about and that urn, some of the language in
the letter may have resembled some ofthe language in an evaluation that she
had completed on him and that there was some other allegation, possibly of
regarding use of force, but she didn't know details on that.
TROXEL: And when Manager Bartley spoke with you about the internal, urn, her uh
becoming aware of the internal was based upon Chief Milosevich advising her
of it occurring.
That's correct.
TROXEL: Did Manager Bartley mention that anybody involved in the internal had also
spoken with her about the internal at that point?
No.
TROXEL: Besides you getting information :from Manager Bartley, did anyone else uh tell
you about the internal investigation?
Urn, Sergeant Skelton simply told me that he was representing on an
internal investigation. That he was acting as a Guild rep and that there would
be an upcoming interview and so he was letting me know that urn he'd be
doing that.
TROXEL: And after you spoke with Skelton, did you at some point have a conversation
with Sgt.
I did.
TROXEL: Urn, did you also have any discussions urn at the beginning of the internal or
over the last couple weeks with uh Deputy ChiefMarsalisi?
I did, yes.
TROXEL: And what was the content of those conversations?
Urn, Deputy ChiefMarsalisi urn, came to my office and said you know by now
you probably lmow that there is an internal investigation going on and I said
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uh, yeah, you know I've heard about it. And urn, he said something to the
effect of I don't remember the whole conversation or every word of it. He said
something to the effect of let it run its course. Urn, he said that urn, you know
maybe there is, maybe it was a big deal, and then maybe it was gonna tum out
to be nothing and he said that urn Manager Bartley urn wasn't really a, exactly
a suspect maybe a witness, kind ofwho knows sort ofview of it I guess and uh,
urn, so that's the conversation I had with Chuck about it until we had a later
conversation.
TROXEL: How many conversations total did you have with Detective, er excuse me,
Deputy Chief Marsalisi about the internal?
Urn, the first one that I just described. Urn, I think two, I think the first one I
just described, and then, I can't remember ifthere was one in the middle and
then we had one where he asked me if I had talked to to uh

TROXEL: Okay.
About it, if had had a conversation with me about it.
TROXEL: And did you have uh one or more conversations about this internal
investigation with Sgt.
Urn, Ihadone.
TROXEL: Okay, and where did that take place?
In my office.
TROXEL: And was that before or after your conversation with Deputy ChiefMarsalisi?
That was after my first conversation with Deputy ChiefMarsalisi.
TROXEL: And again, where did that conversation with take place?
That was in my office.
TROXEL: And there was only one.
That's correct.
TROXEL: Were there any discussions by telephone besides the conversation in your
office?
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STATEMENT OF
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With-
With
No.
Any email correspondence with about that one way or the other-
No, no.
whether he instigated that or otherwise.
No.
Or anything by text message?
No.
Or anything in any other form?
No.
Okay. Uh what did Sgt. tell you?
Uh, Sgt. told me that urn, he, he just described the allegations. He
said that urn, a Trustee urn had asked, came to him and asked what his release
date was and that he had told him that his release date is April, went and
checked and said it's Aprill
81
and that the Trustee urn then complained that he
had asked Sgt. the same question several times and had received a
different answer every time and expressed some kind of frustration over that.
Urn, and that urn subsequently the Trustee had written some kind of letter of
complaint urn regarding and that he, Sgt. was being
accused of having helped the Trustee craft that letter and then he urn said that
there was an allegation that he had used a taser and had not reported that taser
use.
Okay. And regarding the uh letter written by this Trustee and that there was an
implication or an allegation that may have helped the Trustee craft
that letter, did make any statements to you about the uh his assistance
in putting that letter together or not?
Urn, not that I recall.
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Are you aware that subsequent to your conversation regarding the internal, the
conversation with Sgt. that he has been re-interviewed and questions
regarding intent or excuse me, re-interviewed and questioned about the content
about the conversation he had with you?
Yes.
Urn, how did you find out about there-interview or second interview of

Urn, Skelton told me that uh Wilcox had come to him and said he was going to
re-interview urn and then Sgt., uh, I'm sorry, Deputy ChiefMarsalisi
urn told me that uh was being re-interviewed and at that time asked
me if I'd had a conversation with him.
Urn, besides what you've already said on the record here about what
uh spoke with you about, did he discuss any other questions, any specific
questions that were asked of him during either one of the interviews?
Let me think for a sec.
Cause it sounds like you and had one conversation in your office and
that was post interview number one.
That's correct.
But you have not had any other conversations or communication with him
since his second interview.
No, he uh came by my office a couple of times I think in-between interview,
within a few minutes of each other. He was up here talking to someone else
and paused at the door as if he wanted to talk and I just waved him off both
times.
And that was after the first interview.
That was after the first interv.iew and I think before the second interview so -
And - okay, and also after your conversation with him.
Yes.
Okay, so it's like he had an interview urn -
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We talked.
You guys talked, and then he came by another time-
Did a couple flybys and I just, I just waved him off urn cause I lmew I'd done
him a disservice and I didn't want that to uh expand and just get worse.
Now besides the urn content of the interview he had with Commander Wilcox
and then I also asked a couple questions ago if there were other questions that
he was asked that he also shared with you -
I don't recall him sharing any of the contents of his first interview. He just told
me what the allegations were.
Okay, urn, prior to discussing the internal with Sgt. did you or he in
any way indicate that the conversation between the two of you would be kept
between the two of you.
Urn, yeah, yeah, he did.
Tell me about- he, he-
He, he said, uh, let me backtrack a little bit. Urn, we both, I was aware of a gag
order and so was he. Urn, and urn, he uh so talked about the urn, you know the
allegations, urn, he described those to me and I just gave him some advice not
having to do with the internal, but having to do with kind of the rest of his
professional life, urn, so not how to, how to answer questions or none of that, it
was more of urn how, you know stay focused on doing the right things and stay
focused on doing your work and doing your job to the best of your ability and
that kind of stuff and then we talked about urn and his kids and
uh he's in the middle of divorce and we talked about that, and then at the end
of that conversation he goes, hey if anyone asks, we talked about and
and I said okay.
And so, that was the extent of how he wanted that conversation portrayed as
the two of you talked about his kids?
Urn, okay, yeah, I'm speaking on what's on his mind, but, yeah, that's how I
would take that.
Sure, but there wasn't a direct statement from him where he said I shouldn't be
talking to you about this, but here's what's going on.
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Yeah, in the beginning ofthat conversation, that's why I said we were both
aware of the gag order, and understood that we were violating that.
TROXEL: How did you become aware of the gag order?
Urn, well, said I know there's a gag order, you know I'm not supposed
to talk about this urn, shoot -
TROXEL: Before he said that were you aware there was a gag order?
I believe Skelton said when he got done urn, you know, we're done with that
you lmow and there's a gag order. I was, I was aware prior to my conversation
with I was aware that there was a gag order and that, that I
should not be discussing that with
TROXEL: Okay. Urn, you may have answered this, but did you in any way before or after
the conversation with Sgt. indicate that he had been ordered not to
discuss the internal with anyone? In other words you were aware of the gag
order and you shouldn't be talking about it
I did not say that to him, no.
TROXEL: What, if any additional conversation related to the internal did you and
have about the contents of the internal other than what you've already
described?
I think what I've already described. I haven't spoken to him other than to say
you lmow, no, we're not going to talk and wave him off. I haven't spoken to
him or seen him since that day.
TROXEL: You mentioned earlier in the interview today that you had received some
information from Manager Bartley about the internal in the Jail and that she
was made aware of that by Chief Milosevich.
Right.
TROXEL: After your conversations with and Marsalisi or anywhere in between
did you have any conversations with Manager Bartley about the internal?
I did urn, it was after second interview so he'd been interviewed
regarding his and my conversation, and uh, urn, she uh, let me think, she said
that she hadn't been interviewed yet. She didn't lmow if she was gonna be, she
didn't know what was going on at all. She said that had urn wanted to
discuss it with her and she shut him down and did not discuss it with him.
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Wouldn't allow him to do that. And I said, wow, I wish I'd, I wish I'd
exercised that judgment cause I did discuss it with him and I've gotten him and
myselfin trouble so.
TROXEL: Did you discuss with her urn, what you and talked about.
Urn, no, I, I told her that I'd allowed him to discuss urn the allegations, urn, but
I didn't talk about the details of that.
TROXEL: And besides that conversation with Manager Bartley after the second interview
have there been other conversation with you and Manager Bartley about the
internal?
No.
TROXEL: Either by telephone, or email, or text?
No, no
TROXEL: Or personal phone?
No.
TROXEL: Okay. Have you had discussions with anyone else about this internal other
than the people we've talked about today in the interview?
Yeah, I talked to my husband. Urn, let him lmow what was going on. And I
talked to Chuck, Deputy ChiefMarsalisi, and I talked to urn, Kevin, Chief
Milosevich, urn, and I touched base with Dave Skelton.
TROXEL: Are you aware that other, other people in the department besides Sgt.
have been directed to not discuss this investigation with others? And maybe I
can ask that in a little clearer way. People that have already been interviewed
whether subjects or witnesses have been directed or ordered basically a gag
order to not discuss their interview with any of the interviewees or
interviewers.
Right.
TROXEL: And basically have a gag order about the investigation.
Right.
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Okay. Uh, I'm now directing you not to discuss this interview or any part of
this investigation with anybody else? Do you understand that?
I do.
TROXEL: Is there anything else that you'd like to add that you feel may be of interest in
concluding this internal or related to your conversation with others about the
internal.
Just that urn, a couple ofthings. Number one, I, I did a
disservice by allowing, I mean I, I uh knowingly allowed him to discuss that
which I knew he should not allow or discuss and urn, if I'd shut him down and
told him not to, then he wouldn't have and uh, so I feel urn a lot of
responsibility for that urn. I also spoke with Dave Skelton about the urn, my
dishonesty with uh urn Deputy ChiefMarsalisi and I spoke with urn Deb
Needham in the Fire Department who's a friend of mine about it. Urn, not
vented, but uh, I was pretty distraught over it so.
TROXEL: And besides speaking with Deborah Needham about, about the internal-
Well, I didn't talk to her-
TROXEL: Did you speak with her about your uh your conversation and your self-
disappointment I guess in how you handled it.
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's correct.
TROXEL: Was there any other discussion between you and Deb Needham about the
specifics of the internal or any of your conversations with or Manager
Bartley?
Just that I had urn, I guess I expressed my disappointment urn, at urn my lack
ofleadership and self-discipline with uh and urn then worse yet,
my dishonesty with Deputy ChiefMarsalisi.
TROXEL: Anything else you'd like to add?
No.
TROXEL: It's now 1627 hours. This concludes the interview with Commander

{
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INTERNAL AFFAIRS
WITNESS EMPLOYEE ADMONITION
03-09
Complaint Number
Today's date is May 20, 2009 _____ at ______ /_Z,_4_r( ______ hours. I am
Deputy Chief Tim Troxel _____ interviewing Manager Penny Bartley _____ _
regarding a complaint of Harassment, Use of Force and other allegations against Sgt.
which is alleged to have occurred on over some period of months from late 2008
through early 2009.
Manager , do you understand that this conversation is being
tape No)
Manager Bartley , you are here as a witness in the above listed
complaint, a matter which concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed against you,
and you are not under investigation in this matter.
Manager Bartley , I wish to advise you that you are being questioned
AsSigned Investigator
STATEMENT OF
MANAGER BARTLEY
COMPLAlNT NUMBER: C0-03-09
lNTERVIEWER: Deputy Chief Tim Troxel
DATE: May 20, 2009
1245
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Today's date is May 20t\ 2009 at 1245 hours. This is internal affairs
investigation Number 03-09. I'm testing the recorder to make sure it is
working properly.
We're back on the record. It's 1247 hours and the recorder is working
properly. Again, it's internal affairs complaint 03-09. Today's date again is
May 20t\ 2009. I am Deputy Chief Tim Troxel interviewing Manager Penny
Bartley regarding a complaint of Harassment, Use of Force and other
allegations against Sergeant which is alleged to have occurred
over some period of months from late 2008 to early 2009. Manager Bartley,
are you aware this conversation is being recorded?
Yes.
Manager Bartley, you are here as a witness in the above-listed complaint, a
matter which concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed against
you and you are not under investigation in this matter. Manager Bartley, I wish
to advise you that you are being questioned as part of an official investigation
of the Renton Police Department. You are reminded that section 26.1
Insubordination and Truthfulness of the Renton Police Department General
Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfully respond. Any
refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in General
Order 26.1. Do you understand that?
Yes.
I'll ask you to sign the form today while we're here, but we don't have to do
that right this second. Any preliminary questions from you before we get
started?
No.
Are you aware of an internal investigation involving Jail staff?
Yes.
When did you become aware of the internal?
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Kevin Milosevich told me about it a couple weeks ago. I think it was on
Secretaries Day, Administrative Professional's Day. Urn, and he sent me an
email that said he wanted to talk to me about a complaint in the Jail.
And at some point, either before or after your conversation with Chief
Milosevich did you have a conversation with Sergeant
Yes.
And do you remember if it was before or after or maybe both?
It was, well, when I was coming because I'd gotten an email from Kevin that
was very generic saying he wanted to talk to me about a complaint, as I was
coming into the parking lot, was coming out and I just said,
what's going on in the Jail. And didn't you lmow, didn't say anything more
than that and he's like, no, I, you lmow, I don't lmow. Just sort of a you lmow,
nothing that I lmow of. I can't remember his exact response. Urn, and then I
came up to my office. Kevin came in and talked to me, explained to me that
there was a complaint and then a short time later came in and said that he
was had been I guess given notice that there was complaint. He was a subject
of the complaint and he was going to be interviewed the following day.
And did you have any other discussions about being notified about the internal,
or specifically about the internal with anyone other than Chief Milosevich or
Sergeant
I mentioned it to and as I had talked to we had talked
about- had asked me for feedback upon having a representative and I
told him he was entitled to take a Guild representative with him, and I had
gone to Commander to ask her if she thought Dave Skelton would
be an appropriate person to take as a supervisor. I had told I thought it
would be appropriate for him to take another department supervisor as opposed
to a line level Guild representative.
And do you recall if that uh conversation was before his first interview or -
Yes, I believe it was before his first interview.
Okay. And did you have any discussions about this internal with Deputy Chief
Marsalisi?
No.
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Okay. Urn, and do you remember how many conversations in total you had
with Sergeant about the internal?
I could walk through them for, I mean, I haven't counted them up. There was
the initial one that -
In the garage?
That, right, and that day when he later came up and said that he was the subject
of an investigation, he was being interviewed the following day and then I told
him briefly that Dave Skelton may be a possibility. We had talked about Guild
representatives to take. The following day he came by and told me he was
done, or had been interviewed, or some such thing like that and I believe I was
on the phone because I did go down to the Jail later to talk about some SCORE
materials and he said that he'd been done and he was interviewed and I told
him have you been told not to talk about this? And he said yes, I said, okay,
then you know, we're done. I don't want to talk about this anymore. Urn, and
then subsequently I left the following week. I was in Louisville, cause I think
this was on like a Thursday or Friday, so I was gone all the following week, I
didn't see him, didn't talk to him. I came back the week after that and he
indicated to me that he was being interviewed again. And I again reiterated to
him that he had been told not to talk to me you lmow. That was the end of the
conversation and he has called me about SCORE materials as well and again
indicated to me that he didn't lmow the resolution yet and it was you know still
out there pending and I again told him if you've been told not to talk about this
that's you lmow, that's said.
Okay. you mentioned probably four or five separate conversations you had
with him.
Hmm-mm (affirmative) probably.
What was his response uh when you asked him if there had been basically a
gag order placed?
He said that yes he'd been told not to talk about it.
And then once you said uh then we're not going to talk about it, what was his
response to that?
He stopped.
Okay.
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It was okay. Yeah, I know, or something along that line.
Urn, just so I can urn make sure I've got the potential conversations in context,
there was one in the garage, uh one later that same day where he'd been
notified that he was the subject of an internal, and during that conversation, did
he urn lmow what the allegations were, or share those with you?
No, and in fact I had asked him. I said, what's, I don't even lmow what the
allegation is. Kevin had told me an, had told me that day, I was going to say
the previous day, no I think it was that day. He had told me that, that, and I'm
not real, I'm not real sure about the sequence of events or who said what to
him, but he told that Clark or had brought forth a complaint and that
somehow and had asked an inmate to write, put in
writing that was a bad supervisor. Or something along those
lines and, and I wasn't sure at the beginning of the complaint or the beginning
of this conversation with Kevin, or the end of the conversation it seems like
there was a different thing about whether had brought this forth, or
whether Clark had brought it forth because he said that we were not handling
this like a regular internal because there wasn't really a formal complaint and it
was kind of weird, and he, he, downplayed it and kind of said this is kind of a
perplexing sort of complaint. It doesn't really add up and it was unusual I
mean for lack of a better term and so there was this kind of this it's weird. And
so when I talked to I did ask him, I said what's the allegation and he said
he was told he would find out the following day. And so he didn't convey to
me what the allegation was. I don't lmow if he lmew or not but he didn't
convey that at that time.
And you're uh, your description about it being somewhat perplexing
investigation is that, were those uh Clark's words, or Chief Milosevich's?
Kevin.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so besides the in person contact in the, in the garage, and then uh in
person kind of at your office, and then another time when you went down to
the Jail to tallc to uh and I believe you 11"!-entioned that when he was on
the phone with you one time talking about SCORE issues that he mentioned
that the internal was still out there.
Hmm-mm (affirmative)
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Uh, were there other communications by telephone? Besides maybe that one
time?
I think there's, he called me one other time at home. And that's not necessarily
unusual, I mean he has called me at home about Jail matters or SCORE matters
before and he called and left a message and I, I wasn't home, so I didn't talk to
him, but I know, I think there was one other message I have from home.
And the time he called and left the voicemail for you or the message, did you
call him back.
No, I said, I didn't, I didn't call him back. I wasn't home at that time he left a
message and that was I think when- I think that call came sometime while I
was in Louisville or had just come back from Louisville and he knew that I was
shopping for some specific items while I was there at the vendor show so I was
looking for feed trays and different sorts of things and his message was he was.
calling to see how the show had gone and you know what had happened at the
conference.
Uh besides telephone and in person contact, have there been any discussions
between you and Sergeant by email?
No.
Or text message?
No.
Or any other form?
No.
Okay, and at some point after his first interview, did he discuss with you what
the allegations were?
When I went down to his office he indicated that he had a, had a sheet that had
the allegations on it and he had it in his hand as if he was handing it to me and
I said, have you been told not to discuss this and handed it back to him.
And any other discussion after uh basically you putting him on notice that you
were going to hold him to the gag order?
No, nothing other than as I said procedural. For example he came back and
told me he was being interviewed again or he came back and said I'm done
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with that, so not more of a urn, you know, like, almost as if I was still his
supervisor. Okay, I'm done now, I'm going back to work. It was I'm done,
I'm done I'm going back to my office sort of thing, and I, as I said, just kind of
waved him on.
Urn, and I'll just get into a couple specifics briefly here. Did he tell that uh
part of the internal was based upon a letter from a Trustee?
No. As I said, Kevin indicated that to me when he talked to me up front that
there was just some, some sort ofletter and I wasn't clear if it's a letter or if it's
a kite, if it's a you know a grievance, it it's a you know a normal form of
written communication within the Jail or if it's something outside of that. I'm
not clear on that at all.
Uh, did he tell you that it involved harassment, use of force, or any other
allegations?
No.
Are you aware that subsequent to your conversation regarding an internal that
he was re-interviewed and questioned about the conversation or the content of
your conversation with him? If that makes sense?
No, I don't think. I mean, he came back and said that he was being interviewed
again and that they had added a couple new charges. Urn, and he did say, he
did say to me that there was an issue with him violating the gag order. But I
don't believe, or that that was part of the, the secondary questioning, but I
don't think he mentioned my name as, he's not told me he's been interviewed
about any communications with me.
Okay. Did he discuss any questions that were posed to him during either the
first or second interview?
No.
And besides any questions urn that were asked during that interview, did he
discuss any of answers?
No.
Prior to uh discussing briefly the internal with Sgt. did he at any way
indicate that the conversation between uh the two ofyou be kept just that,
between the two of you?
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Okay. And I believe you already answered this, but did you in any way before
or after the conversation with Sgt. indicate to him that he had been
ordered not to discuss the internal with anyone?
Yes, I'd asked him that everytime I've talked to him, is have you, you know,
have you been told not to talk about this. And when he has responded,
affirmatively, it's been you know, you need not to talk about this then.
And I think you mentioned before that his reaction to that, or his response has
been that he hasn't talked about it with you.
Yes, he has complied with that. Yeah. ( overtalk)
And have there been, besides the conversations you mentioned earlier in this
interview today, have there been any other conversations related to this internal
uh that you had with Sgt.
No, not, no.
And you mentioned earlier-
I mean I've talked to him about SCORE and other stuff, right, I mean-
Right.
Okay, I just want to make sure I'm tracking on the question here. Yeah.
Just focusing on that -
On the internal- no
I think your answers have been very clear that once the gag order was
discussed there wasn't anymore discussion but-
Yeah, no.
But, what I'm getting at is there's probably been four or five times where it has
come up-
Yes.
And you've reiterated there's a gag order.
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Right.
STATEMENT OF
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And then the conversation on that topic has ceased even though you may have
talked about SCORE and other issues.
Right. I don't think I have ever used the word gag order when I talked to him.
I told him I think I have said, have you been told not to talk about this. And so
I don't know the specifics if he's you know been directed not to talk to me. If
he's been directed not to talk to anybody. I don't, I don't know, but it's been,
have you been told not to talk about this.
And so my question I uh may have been-
Sorry.
No, it's okay, the question I may have had trouble articulating is besides the
conversations you've already talked about.
Yes.
That four or five times, have there been others that have come to mind since
we've talked about this today?
No.
And you mentioned earlier that you had a conversation with Commander
about the internal.
Hmm-mm (affirmative).
And I believe your recollection was that you had contacted her regarding
having Sgt. Skelton be available to be a Guild rep for Sgt.
Uh, any other uh conversations or uh discussions about the internal with
about allegations or conversations she had with Sgt.
Not, I had, when I talked to her about Sgt. Skelton being a representative, I
conveyed the same kind of perplexing communication that Kevin had had with
me, that this you know was kind of weird, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
Urn, and then I was then out of town, and so I didn't, you know I didn't see her
again, talk with her while I was gone. When I came back I saw her and we
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were having just regular conversations about something and I had asked
something about what's new at work, or some kind of generic in my mind,
generic inquiry, and she said, I don't want to talk about the internal. I don't
know anything, and or responded, I don't want to talk about, you know we're
not talking about, don't ask sort of thing and I, and I apologized because I
thought okay obviously I implied something or said something I shouldn't have
said and she communicated that she wasn't going to talk about it with me, and
you know that was fine, that wasn't my intent of the conversation and so then
she was gone the following week I think so then next time I saw her, I said,
don't know anything, not talking about it, just so we understand the ground
rules and it was clear, and then later, several, I think maybe the last Friday, last
Friday she indicated that she had been disciplined from Kevin regarding the
internal.
Do you any more detail about that?
Other than she said that she had spoken with or had spoken with her
and she didn't convey the details of that.
So did that cause you to inquire further about why she would urn why she
would have a conversation with the Chief of Police about her interaction with

She said much the same way as I've had a conversation with I said, if
you're not supposed to be talking about this with me, do not talk about this
with me and she said, she said that she had purposely not talked to me about
this and that she had been disciplined by Kevin as I said because of a
conversation that she had had with or a conversation had had with
her. I'm not clear if she didn't really tell me any specific details about it.
And between last week when you heard about that and this week, has that, has
information come to light that made that more clear as to why, why she would
have been disciplined?
I think it has to do with the violation of the gag order, but I don't know any
specific details. I haven't inquired.
Have you had discussions with anyone else about the internal other than the
people we've talked about today?
I talked to Clark about it. Urn, right, within a day or two of Kevin advising me
of it, I went to Clark and I said, this is kind ofweird you know is there
something, I can fill in the details on or is there something you know, I just
didn't lmow. And he indicated to me that it was something that had happened
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STATEMENT OF
MANAGER BARTLEY
in March of 2009 and that it wasn''t on my watch it was his responsibility and
that it had to do with accountability and that's what he told me. We didn't
discuss any of the parties, or who was involved, or who was being interviewed,
or anything. That was, it was about a 30 second conversation and I said okay.
Did anybody else from the Jail staff approach you and talk with you about urn
the existence of an internal, or if they'd been questioned or not?
No.
Okay. Are you aware that others besides uh Sgt. have been directed to
not discuss this investigation with others? More specifically, anybody that's
been interviewed, uh regarding this internal has been given a gag order not to
discuss it?
I, I believe Commander has been told not to discuss whatever her
involvement is. Urn, I know that Kevin, when he first mentioned this to me, he
mentioned that might have been involved in it, and so I would
only assume that if Sgt. has been told not to talk about it, he may as
well, but I'm, I don't even know if he was interviewed. I don't know. I've not
talked to anybody in the Jail staff about this, so I don't know. That would only
be an assumption.
It sounds like based upon our conversation today that it's, you've made it clear
to others that have been involved that urn, at least when the topic comes up,
you ask have you been directed not to talk about this.
And I think uh in all cases the answer has been in the affirmative that yes, they
have been told not to talk about it. And so just so everybody is on the same
page, I'm directing you at this point not to talk about with anybody else.
Sure.
Unless it's the Chief or the investigator.
Sure.
Is there anything else you would like to add that you feel may be of interest in
concluding this internal or related to your conversations with others about the
internal?
(SS/I: Complaints/C0-03-09-BARTLEY) 10
(
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STATEMENT OF
MANAGER BARTLEY
You know, I don't, I don't even know what the internal is. Urn, so I'm at a bit
of a loss to lmow how to respond to that question. Urn, you lmow, based upon
the original information that Kevin presented to me, okay, he said that there
was some sort ofletter or correspondence, I don't know what that is, I don't
lmow if that's a kite, I don't know if it's a grievance, I don't lmow if it's a
written you know Dear Chief Milosevich. I don't lmow what that letter
represents. But it's uh, he indicated to me that there was some com, you know
complaint from an inmate about Sgt. being a poor supervisor and
that the inmate had been told to give the letter to or Urn, and I
don't lmow what that represents, or doesn't represent what this investigation's
about, I don't know how accurate that is. But, as I was starting, you lmow in
your own mind, rolling it over, I thought, that kind of makes sense, because if
I'm Joe Inmate, and I've got a complaint about somebody, and the complaint is
you lmow Sgt. So and so won't let me have peanut butter toast and I'm
complaining to somebody else the natural correctional standard would be put it
in writing. Of course you'd tell an inmate put it in writing. And then if it's a
complaint, you lmow dear Sgt. So and so, won't let me have peanut butter
toast, you'd say, okay, this is either a grievance I need to deal with, or it's ...
. . . something that I'm going to throw on somebody's else's desk and they're
going to handle it. I mean there's a standard way of processing and logging
and maintaining inmate complaints so when Kevin initially conveyed this to
me as kind of being weird, I thought, it's kind of weird. I didn't, I don't even
lmow based on the information that was presented to me I couldn't figure out
why that's an internal. It didn't make sense. So, in my own mind, I thought
okay, there's obviously more to this story than what I know, because this part
here doesn't make sense about why that would be an internal based upon that
little piece of information . So I don't lmow how to answer
that question, because, I, based on my description, I guess that's what I know
this is about. I don't lmow you lmow that there's more one way or the other
that I could respond to.
Urn, your speculation that if someone were to make a complaint about not
allowed to have peanut butter toast or whatever and that complaint were
forwarded. Let's say the complaint was against one sergeant.
Yeah.
And it was handed off to the other sergeant.
Yeah.
What would be the normal course of that written complaint?
Right.
(
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STATEMENT OF
MANAGER BARTLEY
What would happen next?
If it's I can't have peanut butter toast, right, or you know, who knows what the
answer, what the complaint is, but if it's something like that, that is a urn
treatment in custody complaint as opposed to so and so sexually assaulted
another inmate, you know what I mean, it's a urn, urn, condition of
confinement complaint, versus there's a criminal allegation or there's
something that needs to be immediately responded to so do you understand the
difference? So if it's one of this treatment, or confinement conditions, I think I
would look at it, I would expect them to look at it and review it and say is this
something that can immediately be resolved and if it's something that's really
essentially a courtesy complaint, on the Jail level, I would give it back to the
other sergeant to say you lmow what, Joe Blow didn't like the way that you
handled his peanut butter toast request. Are you going to follow this up, or do
you want me to handle it cause there's a conflict here now between the two of
you and it appears that this is not going to just go away, but that's what I would
expect and if it couldn't be resolved between the two of them then as the Jail
administrator, then you're the next level. It depends if they're treating it as a
grievance, if it's really a grievance, or if it's like a kite, an inmate request, but
grievances have a definitive tracking mechanism. You've got 72 hours to
respond to the grievance. You only accept grievances in writing cause you
want to get the inmate to commit to their story. So you've got 72 hours and
there's a written response, and there's an appeal process.
And you talked about kites, is that -
Yeah.
synonymous with an inmate request?
Yeah, yeah.
And so it may, it doesn't necessarily point out wrong doing-
No.
It's just my color TV is black and white or-
Right.
I don't have soft enough toilet paper or-
(
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STATEMENT OF
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(
Any request from an inmate should be put in writing on what they call an
Inmate Kite Form. They are those kind of brown half sheet forms that are
down there. And so it's I want to lmow when my court date is, I want to know
my prosecutor's phone number, can you tell me the name of you know Valley
Medical Center, so lots of information requests kinds ofthings come in on
kites. I want razors, I want the toenail clippers. You know those sorts of
things are all handled on kites. And then there's grievances and grievances are
specific things that you are filing a complaint about so you're filing a
complaint against you didn't get your right to have a phone call that day. You
didn't have, which they don't have, but they'll grieve that. They'll say I did,
my food was too hot. I grieve that I had vegetarian meals and I've had the
same vegetarian meal for 7 days. I don't like it. So it's conditions of
confinement that they will grieve. And sometimes they'll put grievances on
kites. Sometimes they'll put kite requests on grievances, so it's no unusual to
see a grievance about a court hearing. Well, that's beyond the conditions of
confinement. We don't control your court hearing. So we would respond to
that grievance that says you need to address this with Renton Municipal Court.
We can't you lmow we can't fix this. It's not a grievable issue. And give them
a written response to that. So we get them in writing, we respond in writing.
How many grievances a month are generated from our Jail?
I'd say two or three a month probably.
And based upon uh the limited lmowledge you gained from Chief Milosevich
and other information that urn that a letter may have been produced by an
inmate is that something that would normally come across as a kite or a
grievance?
Again, it depends on, on what the nature of a complaint was and it could be the
inmates really see those forms as interchangeable and we're not committed to
whether it's on a brown form or a, or a purple form. If it's a grievance, it's
treated as a grievance even if they don't say the word grievance on it. So I've
seen things come in on black, you know, urn on the brown paper with writing
that says this is a grievance and we'll accept that as a grievance even if it's not
on a grievance form.
Okay, anything else you'd like to add? It's now 1315 hours. This will
conclude the interview with Manager Bartley.
REPORTS
All official reports related to the case.
Police reports
Medical reports
Copies of court orders and other official documents.
Receipts for property or products purchased.
Computer Aided Dispatch reports
PD _Admin/JWP/COinfo
Question
Question

Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:33AM
To: score jail
When will you be in the need of
SCORE address.
Hi Boss!!
Sergeant, CJO
Renton City Jail
rentonwa.gov
425-430-7617
Page 1 of 1
of a Certified Jail Officer? Oh well, just wanted to send an e-mail using the
https ://webmail.rentonwa.gov/owa/?ae=Item&t=IPM.Note&id=RgAAAAAjiCmBAAmaRLI 4 7tL... 4/20/2009
Question
Question

Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:01 PM
To: Penny Bartley
Page 1 of 1
_,. ""'
SO I have a question ..... Why cant we just report to another Commander like Ohhhhhh, Then we would not have
to promote two more people to positions? That just does not sound like a cost savings to me.
Does this mean we are not going to hire Josh?
Hope you are having as much fun as I am. People are very nervous. I just tell them lets wait and see what happens,
before they go crazy.
Congratulations by the way, although I heard that your appointment was pushed back a couple weeks because of
oaperwork. But you are the director, correct?

https://webmail.rentonwa.gov/owal?ae=Item&t=IPM.Note&id=RgAAAAAjiCmBAAmaRLI47tL... 4/20/2009
FW: Evaluations Overdue
FW: Evaluations Overdue
Penny Bartley
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:36 PM
To:
FYI ....
From: Kevin Milosevich
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:36
To: Penny Bartley
Subject: RE: Evaluations Overdue
Page 1 of2
OK, then we need to make sure that Michelle's records are accurate. I know that I have heard some grumbling
from others about the number of jail evals on the hit list and I want to make sure the list is accurate. (One less
thing for others to complain about.) Can you work with Michele to straighten this out? Thanks
From: Penny Bartley
Sent: Monday, December 08
1
2008 12:30
To: Kevin Milosevich
Subject: RE: Evaluations Overdue
Carlin was turned in last week, it is in Tim's box. I think there was some confusion regarding Tebbets and
whether he was probationary or not.
Finally, I thought both Hoopii and Kukahiko were complet12d, they were the one's that Tim highlighted and sent
.. _ __ _ __________ ... ___ ____ _ ___ --------------- ... ----------------------- ---------------- ---- -------
From: Kevin Milosevich
Sent: Monday
1
December 08
1
2008 12:24
To:
Cc: Penny Bartley
Subject: Evaluations Overdue
The latest evaluation hit list shows the following evaluations that your are responsible for as being past due up
to September.
Carlin #1 - March
Tebbets #1- June
Grub- August (w/ McMullen)
Hoopii #1 -August
Kukahiko #1- August
Tebbets #2 - September
There is no excuse for being this late on evaluations. Probationary jailers Tebbets, Hoopii, and Kukahiko have
yet to receive a quarterly evaluation since they were hired.
BeforeJ consider potential discipline, are there reasons for the delay or is the hit list not accurate? Please
https://webmail.rentonwa.gov/owa!?ae=Item&t=IPM.Note&id=RgAAAAAjiCmBAAmaR... 4/20/2009
FW: Evaluations Overdue Page2 of2
respond by December 15th, your response should also include some very aggressive time lines to complete
these evaluations.
Kevin Milosevich
Chief of Police
City of Renton, WA
4254307503
https://webmail.rentonwa.gov/owa/?ae=Item&t=lPM.Note&id=RgAAAAAjiCmBAAmaR... 4/20/2009
"3B" Page 1 of 1
"38"

Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:01 PM
To: Penny Bartley
Attachments: CITY OF RENTON POLICE DEPANl.doc (23 KB)
from I
complete it.
Apparently this is a huge issue on the "B" side. It was brought to my attention by one
of our staff not on the "A" side, who stated that was made aware of the issues
awhile back and no improvements have made.
If this is ok with you, I will allow Ervin and Grub to carry out their as the jail
trainers and pay the O.T.
dhat do you think? I would ask what he thinks, but this seems to be a training
issue for now and since he has not asked for help and some of the errors are not good,
then this seems to be the best course of action.

https://webmail.rentonwa.gov/owa/?ae=Item&t=IPM.Note&id=RgAAAAAjiCmBAAmaRLI47tL... 4/20/2009
CITY OF RENTON POLICE DEPARTMENT
MEMORANDUM
DATE: November 18, 2008
TO: SGT.
FROM: FTO Coordinator Ervin
SUBJECT: Training Issues with 3B
FTO Grub has brought to my attention some issues with the 3B jail staff. There are
mistakes being made in several areas. According to FTO Grub and other jail staff
members, these issues are an ongoing problem. These issues are:
The Indication type for a Renton booking such as a warrant (W), new charge (C), or
commitment (X).
Bail amounts need to be changed on warrant bookings.
Make sure that inmates are housed correctly by matching up the Inmate Board and the
computer.
Who is performing what task during bookings needs to be indicated.
Make sure the Court Roster is accurate when completing it.
Need to pull the paperwork for the next day out of the commitment drawer, distribute it,
and label it appropriately.
Failure to release adults and juveniles out of the MSP computer.
Understanding policies and procedures for housing inmates (specifically pertaining to the
Observation cell).
Not using court indicators before court cause numbers on OSA bookings.
Releases for the next day need to be placed in the correct Release bin on the wall.
Medical sheets are being placed into the Inmate Jacket instead of the medical box.
Proper forms are not being filled out (i.e. Strip search forms and ILA forms).
An inmate's status is not being written on the Inmate Board.
Shredding or throwing away important paperwork specifically "locates."
To correct these issues, it is my intention to have FTO Grub and I present on several 3B
shifts. While FTO Grub and I are there, we will go over the mistakes that are being
made. 3B will be shown the proper process to correct these errors. This training process
will be documented. The first time period for this training will be two hours. A second
follow up training period will take one hour on 3B' s next work rotation. If more training
periods are needed, I will notify you by a memorandum.
(
Re: "3B" Page 1 of 1
Re: "38"
Penny Bartley
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:50 AM
To:
What is a huge issue? The memo or the quality of work?
Someone on the B side brought forth these issues?
Yes these things need to be addressed. Have you validated any of the statements in the memo? I want to be
sure that we have proof that these things haven't been addressed. Additionally, are you sure your side is in
order? I've heard complaints over the years about the A side not doing thing the "right way." We cannot allow
the relationship between the sides to deteriorate as the relationship has with patrol.
I am fine with handling this as a training issue, however, you need to be sure to touch base with about
this, prior to AI and Rich showing up. Remember, the folks on 38 were trained by your FTO's ... so where
does the issue lie ...
>>> 11/18/2008 11:01 PM>>>
Attached is a memo from Ervin that I had him type to me. Richard and him got together to complete it.
Apparently this is a huge issue on the "B" side. It was brought to my attention by one of our staff not on the "A"
side, who stated that was made aware of the issues awhile back and no improvements have made.
If this is ok with you, I will allow Ervin and Grub to carry out their plan as the jail trainers and pay the O.T.
What do you think? I would ask what he thinks, but this seems to be a training issue for now and since
he has not asked for help and some of the errors are not good, then this seems to be the best course of action.

https://webmail.rentonwa.gov/owa/?ae=Item&t=IPM.Note&id=RgAAAAAjiCmBAAmaR... 4/20/2009
Issues
Issues
Penny Bartley
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:02 AM
To:
Page 1 of 1
I have spoken with you both separately regarding the issues that have been
identified with 3B. You both have strong feelings about to best resolve this
situation. It is quickly beginning to feel as if the relationship between the
crews is deteriorating about at quickly as the relationship with patrol. This
cannot continue.
We all need to be working together to get these issues resolved. has strong
feelings about the FTO's arriving to try to fix the problem when they have
apparently identified similar errors from others. Meanwhile this sounds like
everyone is spending more time looking for each others errors than they are
spending doing it correctly in the first place.
In hindsight, the grouping of staff on 3B is probably not the best. I have told
that he gets first chance to resolve the issues that have been identified.
However, if the issues are resolved by the end of the year (that is only 5 weeks
away) then Al and Rich will be given the opportunity.
The last option is moving people. I don't like that option, however, it is must be
done, everyone is going to get moved. Yes, you read that correctly, everyone is
going to move. I've heard lots of people want to go to graveyard or days, they
will be placed on shifts and regardless of A and B side if needed.
The jail is experiencing growing pains. We've added lots of new people this last
year. This includes lots of new personalities and strengths. Now is the time for
people to work together. Many of these individuals are looking at opportunities at
SCORE. I would expect them to be developing the skills they need to lead others
rather than spending time identifying what others are doing wrong. You both need
to be demonstrating how to work together. Thank you.
https :1/webmail.rentonwa.gov/ owa/? ae= Item&t=IPM.N 4/20/2009
: ' r{:'!"i1TmW<Lgov/oYI.a : .
1
! :- '' . ,,
Baggies
Baggies

Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:37 PM
To:
Importance: High
(
I need a supplement report on the bags that you were going to show the "3B" guys.
Your report needs to identify:
1. How you came into possession of them and who's they were.
2. What the bags contained.
What you did with them and why.
I need this on my desk by 1700 hrs on Sunday the 23rd of November.
Page 1 ofl
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