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I N THE SECOND J UDI CI AL DI STRI CT COURT OF THE STATE OF

NEVADA
I N AND FOR THE COUNTY OF WASHOE
- oOo-
THE STATE OF NEVADA, :
:
Pl ai nt i f f , : Case No. CR12- 2025
: Dept No. 10
vs. :
:
ZACHARY COUGHLI N, :
:
Def endant . :
======================================================
PARTI AL TRANSCRI PT OF PROCEEDI NGS
SUPPRESSI ON HEARI NG
August 29, 2012
Reno, Nevada
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG SERVI CES
( 775) 883- 7950 or ( 775) 323- 3411
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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5 ^. ^
6 A P P E A R A N C E S
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FOR THE PLAI NTI FF:
9 MR. YOUNG, ESQ.
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FOR THE DEFENDANT:
14 MR. LESLI E, ESQ.
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1
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I NDEX OF EXAMI NATI ON
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4
5 EXAMI NATI ON BY PAGE #
6 1st Wi t ness NI CHOLAS DURALDE
Di r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 7
7 Cr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Lesl i e 34
Redi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 50
8 Recr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Lesl i e 53
Redi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 56
9
10 2nd Wi t ness NATHANI EL ZARATE
Di r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 99
11 Cr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Lesl i e 113
Redi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 137
12 Recr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Lesl i e 138
13
3r d Wi t ness CORY GOBLE
14 Di r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 142
Cr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Lesl i e 155
15 Redi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 165
16
17 I NDEX OF EXHI BI TS
18 None mar ked
19
20
21
22
23
24
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 **^. ^**
2 RENO, NEVADA, WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 29, 2012, 11: 18 A. M.
3 **^. ^**
4
5 THE COURT: Fi r st of al l , I amgoi ng t o r ul e
6 based on t he i n- camer a hear i ng t hat I do not f i nd t hat
7 conf l i ct of i nt er est t hat woul d be subst ant i al as t o
8 deny t he def endant hi s 6t h Amendment r i ght t o counsel
9 i n t hi s case.
10 Wi t h r espect t o t he canvas, si r , I bel i eve
11 you ar e a br i l l i ant per son, and I ' mr ef er r i ng t o Mr .
12 Coughl i n but your anal ysi s of t he mi nut i a of t he case
13 i s wi t hout equal . However , I bel i eve you do have a
14 pr obl emseei ng t he f or est t hr ough t he t r ees. Two days
15 ago I spent an i nor di nat e amount of t i me on t hi s ver y
16 same i ssue, and your i nabi l i t y t o make a si mpl e
17 deci si on, at t hat t i me, r esul t ed i n us comi ng agai n t o
18 t hi s i ssue t oday.
19 Al t hough, I bel i eve i t pr obabl y i s unt i mel y,
20 I amgoi ng t o r ul e on your r i ght and I ' mgoi ng t o deny
21 you sel f - r epr esent at i on at t hi s t i me because I don' t
22 bel i eve you ar e compet ent based on your answer s t o t he
23 quest i ons as wel l as t he pr evi ous document s you f i l ed
24 i n t hi s case, based upon t he f act t hat you have i n
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 f act been suspended by t he St at e Bar t hat you' ve
2 demonst r at ed l ack of knowl edge of at l east some of t he
3 i mpor t ant cr i mi nal l aw, your l ack of knowl edge of
4 pr ocedur e i n cr i mi nal cases and i n par t i cul ar , t he
5 f act t hat you f i l ed a mot i on f or summar y j udgment i n
6 t hi s case. You' ve f i l ed ot her document s whi ch woul d
7 demonst r at e t hat you' r e conf usi ng ci vi l wi t h cr i mi nal
8 pr ocedur e and I ' mconcer ned t hat i f you r epr esent ed
9 your sel f i n t hi s case, t hat i t woul d not be i n your
10 best i nt er est s and t her ef or e, I amgoi ng t o cont i nue
11 t he wr i t of counsel t hat has been appoi nt ed and we
12 wi l l go f or war d wi t h t he t r i al at t hi s t i me.
13 So Mr . Young, di d you want t o cal l your f i r st
14 wi t ness?
15 THE DEFENDANT: I ' msor r y, your Honor , woul d
16 i t be mor e cor r ect t o say we' l l cont i nue wi t h t he
17 hear i ng on t he mot i on t o suppr ess?
18 MR. YOUNG: Ver y br i ef l y, your Honor , i t was
19 par t and par cel wi t h t he mot i on or t he opposi t i on f or
20 co- counsel - -
21 THE COURT: I ' mgoi ng t o - - I ' mgoi ng t o
22 gr ant t he mot i on t o st r i ke al l document s t hat wer e
23 f i l ed by Mr . Coughl i n unl ess t hey wer e j oi ned i n by
24 t he publ i c def ender , and I don' t know i f t he publ i c
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 def ender j oi ned i n, but I have t hi s packet t hat was - -
2 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , we' r e not j oi ni ng i n
3 t hose mot i ons.
4 Wi t h r egar d t o t he addi t i onal i ssue of hi s
5 pr et r i al br i ef ; Mot i on For Summar y J udgment f i l ed at
6 appr oxi mat el y 5: 14 t hi s mor ni ng, as I under st and i t ,
7 or at l east e- mai l ed at t hat t i me, what I woul d
8 suggest i s we pr oceed wi t h t he Mot i on t o Suppr ess.
9 Dependi ng on t he out come, we may or may not have a
10 br i ef t r i al and some t est i mony and t hen t her e may come
11 a poi nt wher e I ask l eave t o f i l e a post t r i al br i ef
12 i f I bel i eve any i ssues need t o be comment ed on i n
13 wr i t i ng t o suppor t maki ng a deci si on but I ' mnot
14 j oi ni ng i n t he f ugi t i ve document .
15 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
16 So I amgoi ng t o gr ant t he mot i on t o st r i ke
17 al l document s t hat wer e f i l ed sol el y by Mr . Coughl i n.
18 However , we do have t he Mot i on t o Suppr ess whi ch I
19 bel i eve was pr oper l y f i l ed - - i naudi bl e.
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes, your Honor , and I ' mpr epar ed
21 t o go f or war d wi t h t he Mot i on t o Suppr ess. The St at e
22 wi l l cal l Of f i cer Dur al de.
23 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I woul d ask t hat t he
24 r ul e of excl usi on appl y.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 THE COURT: Okay. I ' mgoi ng t o ask t hat
2 anyone who i s a wi t ness i n t hi s case, i f you' l l wai t
3 out si de and not di scuss t he case among your sel ves
4 unt i l cal l ed by t he cour t t o t est i f y. So I t hi nk
5 t her e wer e t wo ot her s.
6 Al l r i ght . Woul d you pl ease come f or war d and
7 woul d you r ai se your r i ght hand?
8 ( The wi t ness was swor n. )
9 THE COURT: Pl ease be seat ed.
10 MR. YOUNG: And, your Honor , l i kewi se wi t hout
11 any di sr espect t o t he cour t , may I si t down dur i ng
12 t hese pr oceedi ngs?
13 THE COURT: That ' s f i ne.
14
15 NI CHOLAS DURALDE
16 EXAMI NATI ON
17 BY MR. YOUNG:
18 Q Sir, good morning. Could you state your
19 first and last name and spell both of them?
20 A Ni chol as Dur al de, f i r st name N I C H O L A S,
21 and l ast name i s D U R A L D E.
22 Q And, your Honor just to confirm, these
23 proceedings are still being recorded, yes?
24 THE COURT: Yes.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 I wi l l i ndi cat e t hat t he i n- camer a
2 pr oceedi ngs wer e r ecor ded as wel l but t hey wer e
3 pr eser ved and seal ed. So t hey ar e separ at e.
4 BY MR. YOUNG:
5 Q Thank you.
6 Sir, with whom are you currently employed?
7 A The Reno Pol i ce Depar t ment .
8 Q How long have you been so employed?
9 A Appr oxi mat el y a f i ve and a hal f year s.
10 Q And could you tell the court your training on
11 the front end to become a police officer with the Reno
12 Police?
13 A We st ar t ed wi t h 19 weeks of a POST cer t i f i ed
14 academy and f ol l owed t hat up wi t h 16 weeks of f i el d
15 t r ai ni ng.
16 Q Okay.
17 And have you had training throughout, as time
18 goes on, through your five and a half years?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And have you passed both POST and all
21 subsequent trainings?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And your current assignment is what?
24 A Pat r ol .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 Q Okay.
2 Were you assigned to patrol back on
3 August 20th of 2011?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And again, passed all trainings and F T O
6 programs and the like to become on patrol?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And very briefly, when I say F T O, what is
9 that?
10 A I t ' s a Fi el d Tr ai ni ng Of f i cer pr ogr am. Our s
11 i s sl i ght l y di f f er ent but i t compl et es t he same - -
12 does t he same gener al - -
13 Q Why don't you tell the court what you had to
14 go through before going out as a patrol officer?
15 A The Reno Pol i ce Depar t ment uses a P T O
16 pr ogr amwher e you r i de wi t h t wo ot her of f i cer s as t hey
17 basi cal l y t r ansi t i on you f r omt he t r ai ni ng of f i cer
18 doi ng al l of t he wor k t o at t he end of t he t r ai ni ng
19 pr ogr am, maki ng sur e t hat t he t r ai ni ng of f i cer can
20 compl et e al l t he t asks t hat t hey' r e r equi r ed t o do.
21 Q And did you go through that program, sir?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And did you pass that program?
24 A Yes.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 Q Okay.
2 And again, directing your attention to
3 August 20th of 2011 so last year, you stated you were
4 assigned as a patrol officer that day?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Did something occur shortly before midnight
7 which brings you here to court?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay.
10 Could you tell the judge what that was,
11 please?
12 A I was di spat ched t o a cal l at t he - - I can' t
13 r emember what t he di spat ch l ocat i on was exact l y but i t
14 was t he Pl aza t hat ' s at 1st and Vi r gi ni a acr oss f r om
15 Ci t y Hal l on a r epor t of - - at f i r st , di spat ch sai d i t
16 was a di st ur bance I bel i eve, possi bl y a f i ght . Then
17 as we wer e on our way t her e, t hey updat ed us sayi ng
18 t hat i t was a l ar ceny t hat had occur r ed.
19 Q And this is -- the location you're referring
20 to, is that at or near 10 North Virginia Street or One
21 North Center Street in that general area?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Is that in Reno?
24 A Yes.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 Q Washoe County, Nevada?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay.
4 When you arrived, what occurred?
5 A When I ar r i ved, t her e was a l ar ge gr oup of
6 peopl e on Cent er St r eet near t he r i ver . I can' t
7 r ecal l t he descr i pt i on t hat we wer e gi ven of t he
8 suspect i n t he l ar ceny but di spat ch di d gi ve us a
9 descr i pt i on.
10 When I ar r i ved, t her e was a l ar ge gr oup of
11 younger adul t s possi bl y some i n t hei r l i ke mi d- t eens
12 al so si t t i ng down and st andi ng near t he def endant , Mr .
13 Coughl i n, who was si t t i ng down i n t he mi ddl e of t hem.
14 Mr . Coughl i n was wear i ng cl ot hi ng descr i bed t o us by
15 di spat ch.
16 Q Okay.
17 MR. LESLI E: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect , your Honor .
18 My obj ect i on i s t hat he can' t t est i f y t o whet her t he
19 cl ot hes Mr . Coughl i n was al l egedl y wear i ng ar e
20 consi st ent wi t h what di spat ch t ol d hi mbecause he
21 doesn' t even r emember what t he descr i pt i on of t he
22 suspect was t hat di spat ch had gi ven hi mi n t he f i r st
23 pl ace.
24 So I woul d move t hat t he t est i mony t hat hi s
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 obser vat i on was - -
2 THE COURT: Let me hear - -
3 MR. YOUNG: That ' s f i ne, your Honor .
4 THE COURT: Okay, t hen a mot i on - - i naudi bl e.
5 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
6 THE COURT: The t est i mony wi t h r espect t o t he
7 cl ot hi ng mat chi ng t he descr i pt i on anyway di spat ch.
8 BY MR. YOUNG:
9 Q Thank you.
10 Officer, did you write a report in this case?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And did you write this report soon after or
13 sometime after your involvement with this case?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Do you recall approximately how long?
16 A Depar t ment pol i cy r equi r es us t o wr i t e a
17 r epor t wi t hi n 48 hour s of when t he ar r est i s made.
18 Q So pretty soon after your involvement?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. If I could approach, your Honor?
21 Showing you what appears to be your report;
22 is that correct?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And this is a four page -- it has some other
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 things but this is a four-page report; correct?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay.
4 I'm directing your attention to page 3, the
5 second paragraph. Don't answer out loud but just
6 review that report, sir, your report. Let me know if
7 that refreshes your recollection as to clothing and
8 descriptors as related to you by dispatch.
9 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor ? I ' l l addr ess i t
10 l at er , your Honor , never mi nd.
11 BY MR. YOUNG:
12 Q After reviewing that report, does it refresh
13 your recollection?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And I'll get this report back from you.
16 What was it that -- as far as particulars
17 regarding a potential suspect dispatch advised you of?
18 THE COURT: Bef or e you answer t hat , di d you
19 have an obj ect i on?
20 MR. LESLI E: I di dn' t have an obj ect i on. I
21 was l ooki ng at Mr . Coughl i n' s copy on hi s comput er of
22 t he pol i ce r epor t and by doi ng so, I was abl e t o f i nd
23 t he i nf or mat i on t hat I t hought I needed.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
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1 BY MR. YOUNG:
2 Q Okay. Go ahead, sir.
3 A The suspect descr i bed was descr i bed as a
4 whi t e mal e appr oxi mat el y 6 f oot 2, 210 pounds wear i ng
5 a r ed Chi cago hat , a mar oon or l i ght col or ed shi r t and
6 pl ai d shor t s.
7 Q Okay.
8 Now, fast forward to when you arrived on
9 scene, did you see an individual who matched this
10 description?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay, is the person who was consistent with
13 that description, is that person in the courtroom
14 today?
15 A Yes, he i s.
16 Q Would you point that person out to the judge?
17 THE COURT: The r ecor d wi l l r ef l ect t he
18 i dent i f i cat i on of t he def endant .
19 BY MR. YOUNG:
20 Q Okay.
21 Did you make verbal contact with Mr.
22 Coughlin, at that point?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And could you tell the court what happened?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 A The f i r st t hi ng t hat I r ecal l sayi ng t o Mr .
2 Coughl i n was t hat i f he had someone' s phone i f he gave
3 i t back t o t hem, t hat t he whol e i ssue woul d pr obabl y
4 be t aken car e of at t hat poi nt .
5 Q Do you recall what Mr. Coughlin's response
6 was, if anything?
7 A Mr . Coughl i n asked me i f t hi s was a Ter r y
8 st op and i f I had aut hor i t y t o do t hat .
9 Q So did he answer your question or inquiry
10 about whether he had a phone?
11 A No. He di d not .
12 Q Okay.
13 What was Mr. Coughlin's general demeanor or
14 level of cooperativeness with you during this
15 investigation?
16 A He was conf r ont at i onal .
17 Q Okay.
18 Did you advise Mr. Coughlin that you were
19 conducting an investigation into a possible theft of a
20 phone?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay.
23 At any time, did he relay to you or tell you
24 that he did in fact have somebody else's phone?
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1 A No.
2 Q Okay.
3 What happened at that point?
4 A Mr . Coughl i n, r ef er r i ng t o my t r ai ni ng and
5 exper i ence, when someone i s uncooper at i ve and
6 conf r ont at i onal when we' r e speaki ng wi t h t hem, t her e' s
7 a possi bi l i t y t hat t hei r ver bal uncooper at i veness
8 coul d t ur n i nt o a physi cal al t er cat i on or j ust
9 physi cal - -
10 MR. LESLI E: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect , l ack of
11 f oundat i on.
12 MR. YOUNG: He sai d based on hi s t r ai ni ng and
13 exper i ence. I t hi nk t hat ' s al l t he f oundat i on he
14 needs.
15 MR. LESLI E: That ' s a concl usor y st at ement ,
16 i t ' s not t he el i ci t i ng of f oundat i onal t est i mony f r om
17 t he wi t ness. I don' t t hi nk a f oundat i on has been
18 l ai d.
19 THE COURT: Foundat i on, you mean
20 speci f i cal l y?
21 MR. LESLI E: Al l he sai d i s based on my
22 t r ai ni ng peopl e t hat don' t cooper at e or answer my
23 quest i ons coul d be danger ous. Ther e' s no f oundat i on
24 f or t hat concl usi on.
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1 He sai d i t but t hat doesn' t mean t hat t her e' s
2 any f oundat i on f or t hat concl usi on.
3 THE COURT: Wel l , I wi l l sust ai n i t - - I mean
4 what speci f i c t r ai ni ng was i t - -
5 BY MR. YOUNG:
6 Q Sure. Sir, I'd ask you in addition to
7 answering what training you learned, if there's also
8 been prior instances in your experience where
9 noncooperation and confrontation on the front end has
10 turned into physical violence and/or use of weapons?
11 MR. LESLI E: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect r el evance.
12 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , Mr . Lesl i e want s t o know
13 f oundat i on, t hat cer t ai nl y goes t o f oundat i on.
14 MR. LESLI E: That ' s a di f f er ent quest i on.
15 THE COURT: As I under st and t he obj ect i on - -
16 I ' l l sust ai n t he second obj ect i on but I do t hi nk i t ' s
17 i r r el evant but as t o t he f i r st obj ect i on, I t hi nk i f
18 t her e was some speci f i c t r ai ni ng he had t hat di d say
19 t hat , t hen I t hi nk t hat woul d be a pr oper f oundat i on.
20 BY MR. YOUNG:
21 Q Okay. Officer, if there is anything
22 specific?
23 A No speci f i c cl ass but i t woul d have been
24 t hr ough t he t i me I spent wi t h t he t r ai ni ng of f i cer
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1 wher e t hey have t o t ake someone who basi cal l y has gone
2 t hr ough l i f e want i ng t o t r ust peopl e and l ear ned i t
3 t eaches us how t o be mor e skept i cal t o keep us and
4 ot her s saf e.
5 Q Okay.
6 THE COURT: I wi l l al l ow t he t est i mony t hat
7 was pr evi ousl y obj ect ed t o.
8 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
9 BY MR. YOUNG:
10 Q So in addition to saying you were saying
11 based on your training and experience, could you go
12 ahead and finish your previous testimony.
13 A Wel l , based on Mr . Coughl i n' s demeanor , he
14 was al so wear i ng cl ot hes whi ch wer e l oose enough t o
15 conceal a weapon. I compl et ed a pat - down sear ch f or
16 weapons on Mr . Coughl i n.
17 Q Okay.
18 This was again just shy of midnight; correct?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Can you explain, in this specific location,
21 what the lighting was like?
22 A The l i ght i ng - - t her e' s a l ot of l i ght i ng
23 r i ght t her e. Ther e' s st r eet l i ght s.
24 Q Okay.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 And how many people were on scene when you
2 arrived ballpark?
3 A I ' d say bet ween 8 and 12.
4 Q Okay.
5 And that includes Mr. Coughlin?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And specifically, you were talking about what
8 dispatch advised. I may have missed it but why were
9 you responding out to this area for dispatch?
10 A At f i r st , t hey sai d i t was a di st ur bance,
11 possi bl y a f i ght and t hen gave us updat ed i nf or mat i on
12 t hat a l ar ceny had possi bl y occur r ed.
13 Q Okay.
14 And the first call that came in advised that
15 there was a possible fight?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay.
18 And then you stated that you did a pat-down
19 search, could you describe what that is specific to
20 Mr. Coughlin, how you conducted that?
21 A For a pat - down sear ch, we' r e basi cal l y
22 checki ng someone' s per son t o make sur e t her e' s no
23 weapons t hat ar e conceal ed i n t hei r cl ot hes. I don' t
24 r ecal l how exact l y I went t hr ough t he whol e sear ch,
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 but t hey t each us t o met hodi cal l y check over l appi ng
2 ar eas so you don' t mi ss anyt hi ng.
3 I r ecal l when I checked Mr . Coughl i n' s r i ght
4 si de, he had a phone i n hi s f r ont shor t s pocket .
5 MR. LESLI E: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect t o t he
6 t est i mony t hat he had a phone. I t hi nk t he of f i cer i s
7 dr awi ng an i mpr oper concl usi on.
8 THE COURT: Okay. I wi l l sust ai n t hat
9 obj ect i on. Maybe you can descr i be what you saw.
10 THE WI TNESS: I f el t an obj ect t hat I
11 bel i eved t o be a phone.
12 MR. LESLI E: I obj ect . He can descr i be what
13 he f el t but not hi s concl usi ons.
14 THE COURT: I wi l l sust ai n t he obj ect i on.
15 Agai n si r , you can descr i be t he shape of i t and
16 not hi ng el se - - i naudi bl e.
17 THE WI TNESS: I don' t r ecal l mi nut e det ai l
18 out si de of my concl usi on.
19 MR. YOUNG: Okay, t hat ' s okay.
20 THE WI TNESS: I can' t say t hat I di d.
21 BY MR. YOUNG:
22 Q Okay.
23 Do you recall why you were conducting that
24 pat-down, what if anything Mr. Coughlin said or
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 yelled?
2 A As I was cont i nui ng wi t h t he pat - down and I
3 got t o Mr . Coughl i n' s l ef t f r ont shor t s pocket , he
4 began yel l i ng somet hi ng al ong t he l i nes of I was
5 i nappr opr i at el y t ouchi ng hi s peni s.
6 Q Okay.
7 Were you?
8 A No.
9 Q All right.
10 At this time up to the point that you've
11 testified now, at any time, did you reach your hands
12 into any pockets of Mr. Coughlin?
13 A No.
14 Q And I should ask this, did his shorts have
15 pockets?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And you were describing kind of a search for
18 weapons?
19 A Yes.
20 Q You're familiar with the search incident to
21 arrest?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Which is a thorough search?
24 A Yes.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 23
1 Q Your pat-down search as you described it, how
2 intrusive is that as compared as to a search incident
3 to arrest?
4 A I n a sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est , we woul d put
5 our hands i n someone' s pocket s, t ake al l t he i t ems
6 out . Basi cal l y, we' r e l ooki ng f or any cont r aband or
7 i l l egal i t ems down t o - - i n t he past , I ' ve had
8 sear ches wher e I l ocat ed a gr ai n of met hamphet ami ne
9 t hat wei ghed one hundr edt h of a gr am.
10 Q Okay.
11 And that's what you're talking about in a
12 search incident to arrest?
13 A Yes.
14 Q What I'm curious then is how intrusive as
15 compared to that search was your pat-down search of
16 Mr. Coughlin?
17 A I woul d say not i nt r usi ve.
18 Q And why? Could you explain exactly what it
19 is. I know you said you're searching for weapons but
20 what are you specifically doing?
21 A We t ouch t he out si de of t he cl ot hi ng.
22 Q Okay.
23 During this search, did you feel any weapons?
24 A No.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 24
1 Q Okay.
2 So did you reach into Mr. Coughlin's pockets
3 at any time at this point?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay.
6 What happened after your pat-down search?
7 A Mr . Coughl i n began t o yel l t hat I was
8 i nappr opr i at el y t ouchi ng hi m. As he was becomi ng mor e
9 uncooper at i ve, I pl aced hi mi nt o handcuf f s.
10 Q And then what happened?
11 A Fr omt her e, ot her of f i cer s had ar r i ved. Mr .
12 Coughl i n was l ef t wi t h - - when I get t o hi s l ef t f r ont
13 pocket , I st epped back. I f el t an obj ect
14 appr oxi mat el y f our i nches l ong, t hr ee i nches wi de and
15 pr obabl y about a hal f i nch t hi ck t hat was consi st ent
16 wi t h a phone.
17 Q Okay.
18 And that was when you got to his left front
19 pocket of his shorts?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay.
22 Go on.
23 A So t hen Mr . Coughl i n was l ef t wi t h t he ot her
24 of f i cer s who wer e on scene. I made cont act wi t h t he
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 25
1 vi ct i m.
2 Q Do you recall the victim's name?
3 A I r ecal l hi s l ast name.
4 Q What was that?
5 A Zar at e.
6 Q Okay.
7 A I asked hi mwhat occur r ed. I n summar y, he
8 t ol d me t hat hi s phone had been t aken.
9 MR. LESLI E: Obj ect i on, hear say.
10 MR. YOUNG: I t ' s not hear say because i t goes
11 t o t he ef f ect wi t h r espect t o t hi s mot i on t o suppr ess.
12 THE COURT: I ' l l over r ul e t hi s obj ect i on,
13 i t ' s not admi t t ed f or t he pur poses of t he t r ut h of t he
14 mat t er .
15 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , your Honor , I woul d al so
16 obj ect based on r el evance. We' r e at t acki ng t he
17 pat - down. Thi s i s not ger mane t o t he pat - down. Thi s
18 i s i nvest i gat i on so i t ' s not r el evant .
19 THE COURT: So you' r e obj ect i ng t hat t her e
20 was a pat - down?
21 MR. LESLI E: We' r e at t acki ng, i n our Mot i on
22 t o Suppr ess, t he val i di t y of t he pat - down sear ch.
23 Thi s t est i mony now about hi s di scussi ons wi t h
24 wi t nesses i s par t of hi s br oader i nvest i gat i on whi ch
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 26
1 i s not r el evant t o whet her or not he was j ust i f i ed i n
2 pat t i ng down Mr . Coughl i n at an ear l i er st age.
3 THE COURT: Wel l , I agr ee wi t h t hat . So a
4 pat - down - - i naudi bl e, i f I under st and t hi s cor r ect l y.
5 MR. LESLI E: I ' ve st at ed my obj ect i on.
6 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor t he mot i on t o suppr ess
7 al so at t acks t he pl ai n f i el d doct r i ne t al ki ng about
8 t hi s r eachi ng i nt o t he phone. Thi s goes di r ect l y t o
9 t hat par t of t he mot i on t o suppr ess.
10 THE COURT: Reachi ng i n f or t he phone, I mean
11 i t wasn' t par t of t he pat - down, wasn' t i t ?
12 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , t hat ' s what I ' mat t empt i ng
13 t o show t o t he cour t t hr ough t est i mony.
14 THE COURT: I ' mgoi ng t o over r ul e t he
15 obj ect i on because I ' mnot cl ear I under st and t he f act s
16 of t hi s case.
17 MR. YOUNG: Sur e.
18 BY MR. YOUNG:
19 Q You mentioned, sir, that you recall the
20 victim's last name, I should say alleged victim at
21 this juncture, the alleged victim's last name as
22 Zarate; correct?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 27
1 You put in your report a different name for
2 the victim. Are you -- I just want to make sure that
3 the record is clear as far as who the alleged victim
4 is at this point. Do you recall, as you sit here
5 right now, the actual full first and last name of the
6 alleged victim?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. If I could approach, your Honor,
9 again.
10 And again, let me show you again this is Page
11 4 of the same report you were referring earlier to.
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay, does reviewing this report help refresh
14 your recollection?
15 A Yes.
16 Q There were actually two individuals that you
17 spoke with, yes?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay.
20 Again, at this juncture, the alleged victim,
21 who was that?
22 A Cor y Gobl e.
23 Q Okay.
24 And there was another individual you spoke
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 28
1 with, who was that?
2 A Hi s l ast name was Zar at e.
3 Q Okay.
4 When speaking with Mr. Goble, what was it
5 that Mr. Goble advised you?
6 A He advi sed me t hat hi s phone had been t aken.
7 A f r i end had seen i t be t aken and poi nt ed t he per son
8 out who had t he phone t o hi m.
9 Q All right.
10 A He had conf r ont ed t he subj ect t hat he
11 i dent i f i ed as Mr . Coughl i n and asked f or hi s phone
12 back. He was t ol d by Mr . Coughl i n t hat he di dn' t have
13 a phone. So he cal l ed t he phone and when he di al ed
14 hi s phone number , he saw t he phone scr een - -
15 MR. LESLI E: I agai n obj ect on hear say.
16 THE COURT: I t ' s over r ul ed agai n.
17 MR. LESLI E: I won' t keep doi ng i t ever y
18 t i me, but I j ust want t o be cl ear .
19 THE COURT: I t hi nk i t goes t o t he of f i cer ' s
20 P C possi bl y f or t he ar r est or what ever happened.
21 MR. YOUNG: Yes, si r .
22 MR. LESLI E: Why don' t I st at e i t t hi s way,
23 may I have a cont i nui ng obj ect i on i n t he Mot i on t o
24 Suppr ess t o t he of f i cer t est i f yi ng t o what wi t nesses
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 29
1 t ol d hi m?
2 MR. YOUNG: That ' s f i ne.
3 THE COURT: Absol ut el y.
4 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, your Honor , t hen I
5 don' t have t o i nt er r upt ever y t i me.
6 THE COURT: Maybe at some poi nt , t he
7 obj ect i on woul d be sust ai ned so t hat ' s my onl y concer n
8 but at t hi s poi nt , I ' mgoi ng t o over r ul e t he obj ect i on
9 because I don' t bel i eve i t ' s of f er ed f or t he t r ut h of
10 t he t est i mony.
11 BY MR. YOUNG:
12 Q Officer, you were stating that Mr. Goble
13 advised you that from someone's phone, his number was
14 called and I believe where your testimony ended before
15 the objection was that he told you he saw a screen
16 light up; is that correct?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Did he tell you where he saw that screen
19 light up?
20 A He sai d he saw t he scr een l i ght up i n Mr .
21 Coughl i n' s l ef t shor t s pocket .
22 Q Okay.
23 At that point, as part of your investigation,
24 I'm not going to have you get into details but did you
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 30
1 also speak with Mr. Zarate?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Did you obtain -- after speaking with Mr.
4 Goble, did you obtain Mr. Goble's cell phone number?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And did you then call that number?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay.
9 Could you tell the court what happened?
10 A I moved next t o Mr . Coughl i n. I di al ed Mr .
11 Gobl e' s cel l phone number . I coul d hear a vi br at i ng
12 noi se consi st ent wi t h a vi br at i ng cel l phone when i t ' s
13 cal l ed. I t hen pl aced t he back of my hand t o t he
14 out si de of Mr . Coughl i n' s l ef t f r ont shor t s pocket and
15 f el t pr esumabl y Mr . Gobl e' s phone t hat I was cal l i ng
16 vi br at i ng i n Mr . Coughl i n' s l ef t f r ont shor t s pocket .
17 Q Okay.
18 And did you ultimately terminate that call or
19 hang up that call?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And what happened with respect to the
22 vibration that you felt and heard?
23 A When I ended t he cal l f r ommy phone, t he
24 vi br at i on st opped.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 31
1 Q Okay.
2 And were you able to feel that?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Were you likewise able to hear that?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay.
7 And at that point, what did you do?
8 A At t hat poi nt , I f el t t hat I had pr obabl e
9 cause t o t hat Mr . Coughl i n was i n possessi on of Mr .
10 Gobl e' s phone and Mr . Coughl i n was pl aced i n handcuf f s
11 and sear ched i nci dent t o ar r est .
12 Q Well, I mean you placed him in handcuffs, did
13 you arrest Mr. Coughlin at that time?
14 A He was al r eady i n handcuf f s at t hat t i me. He
15 was ar r est ed.
16 Q Okay. I guess that was a better question.
17 So you arrested him at that point?
18 A Yes.
19 Q At what point was he placed in handcuffs?
20 A He was pl aced i n handcuf f s shor t l y af t er he
21 st ar t ed t o yel l t hat I was i nappr opr i at el y t ouchi ng
22 hi m.
23 Q Okay.
24 Now, by -- at the point that you placed Mr.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 32
1 Coughlin under arrest as you just testified to --
2 A Yes.
3 Q At any time, had you actually put your hands
4 inside Mr. Coughlin's pockets?
5 A No.
6 Q At that point, did you?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And why?
9 A To r et r i eve t he phone al ong wi t h compl et i ng
10 t he sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est .
11 Q As per protocol as you already testified to?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Court's indulgence, your Honor.
14 At any time prior to what you just testified
15 to of doing the search incident to arrest in reaching
16 in and removing this phone from the left front shorts
17 pocket, at any other time, I just want to be clear,
18 did your hands enter Mr. Coughlin's pockets?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay.
21 This phone that you recovered from the left
22 front shorts pocket, did you confirm whether or not
23 that was Mr. Goble's phone?
24 A Yes.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 33
1
Q And how did you do that?
2 A I r ecal l Mr . Gobl e descr i bi ng - -
3 MR. LESLI E: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect agai n
4 because t he cour t i ndi cat ed t hat some obj ect i ons may
5 be val i d. At t hi s poi nt , t he t est i mony i s t hat t he
6 def endant has been pl aced under ar r est and sear ched
7 i nci dent t o ar r est . I obj ect t o any f ur t her hear say
8 t est i mony.
9 MR. YOUNG: That ' s f i ne.
10 THE COURT: I wi l l sust ai n t hat obj ect i on.
11 MR. YOUNG: Thank you. Cour t ' s i ndul gence,
12 your Honor .
13 BY MR. YOUNG:
14
Q Just a final question, officer.
15
When you stated that when you were dialing
16
Mr. Goble's numbers someone provided to you and you
17
said that you touched Mr. Coughlin in the left front
18
shorts pocket area; do you recall that testimony?
19 A Yes.
20
Q Could you describe how it was that you
21
touched him?
22 A I t was wi t h t he back of my hand agai nst t he
23 out si de of hi s shor t s.
24
Q Okay.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 34
1 I have no further questions, your Honor.
2 Thank you, officer.
3 THE COURT: Okay. How l ong i s your cr oss?
4 The pr obl emi s nor mal l y we t ake a br eak r i ght now.
5 MR. LESLI E: You know, I ant i ci pat e t hat I
6 woul d not i nvade t he l unch hour by ver y much.
7 THE COURT: Wel l , you can' t i nvade t he l unch
8 hour at al l because I have a pr i or appoi nt ment . The
9 quest i on i s do you want t o go f or f i ve mi nut es and
10 t hen st op?
11 MR. LESLI E: I ' d l i ke t o go as f ar as we can
12 bef or e we br eak.
13 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
14 CROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
15 BY MR. LESLI E:
16 Q Officer, you originally -- dispatch
17 originally informed you that there was a disturbance
18 or possible fight; is that correct?
19 A Yes.
20 Q But then after that, you were updated by
21 dispatch with the information that it was a larceny?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay.
24 Generally speaking, a report over dispatch of
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 35
1 a larceny does not always mean that violence or threat
2 is involved; is that correct?
3 A That coul d be t he case, yes.
4 Q So then you arrived and you saw what appeared
5 to be a large group of people somewhere between 8 to
6 12 people?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And most of them were young or mid-teen in
9 age?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And they were grouped around the man you
12 identified as Mr. Coughlin?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And Mr. Coughlin was seated on the ground?
15 A He was seat ed on - - al ong t he Cent er St r eet
16 Br i dge over t he Tr uckee Ri ver , t her e ar e r ai l s t hat
17 ar e about a f oot and a hal f , t wo f eet hi gh. He was
18 si t t i ng on one of t he r ai l s.
19 Q And how close to him was the group of youths?
20 A Si t t i ng next t o hi m. Some wer e si t t i ng next
21 t o hi mon t he r ai l . Ot her s wer e st andi ng i n a hal f
22 ci r cl e on t he si dewal k.
23 Q They were standing in a half circle around
24 him?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 36
1 A Yes.
2 Q So he was surrounded by approximately 8 to 12
3 mid-teen or young adults?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And when you arrived there, was yelling going
6 on?
7 A I don' t r ecal l .
8 Q Did the youths appear agitated?
9 In fact, at one point, you had to tell them
10 to back off, didn't you?
11 A Yes.
12 Q They were upset?
13 A Yes.
14 Q At the man you identified as Mr. Coughlin?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And they were surrounding him?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And he was in a seated position and many of
19 them were in a standing position?
20 A I r ecal l mor e bei ng seat ed near hi mt han wer e
21 st andi ng but t her e wer e some subj ect s st andi ng, yes.
22 Q All right.
23 And how close in proximity were these youths
24 or young adults to Mr. Coughlin; how many feet from
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 37
1 him, how many inches?
2 A The subj ect s t hat wer e si t t i ng next t o hi m
3 wer e I woul dn' t say mor e t han si x t o 10 i nches away
4 f r omhi m. They wer e si t t i ng r i ght next t o hi m.
5 Q Are we going to break?
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 So t hi s wi l l be cont i nued unt i l 1: 30 and
8 we' l l go t o appr oxi mat el y 4: 30. Do you have any
9 pr obl emwi t h bei ng her e at 1: 30?
10 MR. YOUNG: No, si r .
11 ( A l unch r ecess was t aken. )
12 THE COURT: We wi l l cont i nue t hen.
13 Mr . Dur al de, i f you' l l j ust have a seat .
14 You' r e st i l l under oat h. Mr . Lesl i e?
15 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, your Honor .
16 CROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
17 ( Resumed)
18 BY MR. LESLI E:
19 Q And is it Officer Duralde or Duralde?
20 A Dur al de.
21 Q Okay. I apologize.
22 Officer, during the lunch break, did you have
23 any communication about the substance of the facts of
24 this case and your testimony with anyone?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 38
1 A No.
2 Q Okay.
3 And you did not do that with any witnesses?
4 A No.
5 Q And you did not do that with the D A?
6 A No.
7 Q Okay.
8 So I think when we broke for lunch, I
9 believed we had established that when you arrived on
10 scene, you saw the man that you have identified as Mr.
11 Coughlin sitting on a railing in a seated position
12 surrounded by several young people, some standing,
13 some sitting, some as close or six to 10 inches and
14 that they were visibly upset with him; is that a fair
15 summary of the setting as you arrived on scene?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And so as you arrived there, is it fair to
18 say that you concluded, upon seeing what you've
19 described, that whatever exchange had been going on
20 between the youths and Mr. Coughlin had been going on
21 for sometime prior to your arrival?
22 A Yes.
23 Q You don't know how long but for some period
24 before your arrival, this situation you've described
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 39
1 had been going on?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay.
4 Of the 8 to 10 youths or young persons that
5 you've described, can you approximate how many were
6 male and how many were female?
7 A I woul d guess, f r ommy r ecol l ect i on, t her e
8 wer e at l east t hr ee f emal es t her e, t hat ' s t he best
9 guess I can gi ve.
10 Q Okay.
11 And I did ask for an estimate. So the
12 remainder of the 8 to 12 individuals were male?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Mr. Coughlin -- when you first arrived and
15 saw this scene that we're talking about, Mr. Coughlin
16 was wearing shorts?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Not long pants; correct?
19 A Yes, cor r ect .
20 Q He had with him -- did he have with him any
21 animals?
22 A Yes, I r ecal l a dog.
23 Q A small dog?
24 A Yes.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 40
1 Q On a leash?
2 A I don' t r ecal l i f i t was on a l eash or not .
3 Q Was the dog displaying any viciousness
4 towards any of the individuals that were surrounding
5 Mr. Coughlin?
6 A Not t hat I r ecal l .
7 Q And Mr. Coughlin was wearing a shirt?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Was it a long-sleeve shirt or short-sleeve?
10 A I don' t r ecal l .
11 Q Was it a collared shirt or more of a T-shirt
12 style shirt?
13 A T- shi r t .
14 Q Okay.
15 Pockets on the shirt?
16 A I don' t r ecal l .
17 Q Did Mr. Coughlin visibly have in his hands
18 any kind of weapon?
19 A No.
20 Q Did he visibly have in his hands any item or
21 article which you believed could be used as a weapon?
22 A The onl y i t emI r emember t hat Mr . Coughl i n
23 had was a bi ke whi ch coul d be used as a weapon but
24 t hat ' s a st r et ch.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 41
1 Q And can we agree that that would be a stretch
2 in this case? You don't seriously testify here today
3 that that bike was being used as a weapon?
4 A No.
5 Q And you didn't -- back at the time of your
6 contact with him on the night in question, you did not
7 really think that you were at risk of being attacked
8 by the bicycle?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay.
11 So excluding the bicycle then, he did not
12 have visibly in his possession, as you arrived on
13 scene, any article or weapon that could be used
14 against you?
15 A No.
16 Q If I heard you correctly on your direct
17 testimony, you testified that there were a number of
18 streetlights in the area?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And so the lighting was reasonably good?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay.
23 When you first had contact with Mr. Coughlin,
24 can you point to any specific facts, not just your
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 42
1 experience, but specific facts about the scene there
2 when you first had contact with him that made you
3 think that he was going to flea?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay.
6 And in fact, if he had fled and if he wanted
7 to retain his bicycle and his dog, he would have fled
8 with them presumably?
9 A I have no i dea.
10 Q I guess the point I'm trying to make is he
11 had with him a dog and a bicycle, when you first had
12 contact with him?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay.
15 Now, you've been trained in temporary
16 detention of individuals?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Would it be fair to say that once you put
19 your hands on a citizen, when you as an officer put
20 your hands on a citizen to conduct a pat-down, you are
21 detaining them?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Now, that evening as you had contact with Mr.
24 Coughlin, you were in uniform?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 43
1 A Yes.
2 Q And did you have a weapons belt?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And you had a sidearm on your weapon belt?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And was that in plain view?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And did you arrive in a police car?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And was that police car parked within visible
11 distance from where Mr. Coughlin was, when he was
12 sitting on the rail with the youths?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And during your contact with Mr. Coughlin,
15 did additional officers arrive?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And were you the first on-site?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And then how many additional officers
20 arrived?
21 A Two.
22 Q Did they arrive by separate vehicle?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And did they arrive in the same vehicle or
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 44
1 two additional vehicles?
2 A Two addi t i onal vehi cl es.
3 Q And had all three officers with all three
4 police vehicles arrived, as of the time that you
5 patted Mr. Coughlin down?
6 A I onl y r ecal l one ot her of f i cer bei ng t her e
7 at t he t i me t hat I conduct ed t he pat - down.
8 Q So there were at least two officers and two
9 police cars on scene at the time you patted him down?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And he was certainly, in your mind, detained
12 at that point?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Was he, in your mind, detained prior to you
15 actually patting him for weapons?
16 A I f he had t r i ed t o l eave, I woul d say he
17 wasn' t f r ee t o.
18 Q Okay.
19 Now, if I heard you correctly and I want to
20 go through this. From the direct examination, I
21 understood that the basis or the reason for the
22 pat-down was a few things. He had on loose clothing;
23 is that correct?
24 A Yes.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 45
1 Q His demeanor?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And his lack of cooperation in answering some
4 questions?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay.
7 His demeanor -- by demeanor, you mean that he
8 was uncooperative and I think you used the word
9 "confrontational?"
10 A Yes.
11 Q Was he annoying you?
12 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I ' d l i ke t he r ecor d
13 t o r ef l ect i t ' s been pr obabl y a mi nut e si nce I asked
14 t he quest i on of whet her Mr . Coughl i n was annoyi ng.
15 The of f i cer hasn' t answer ed.
16 THE COURT: I wi l l st i l l al l ow hi mbecause
17 t her e was a di st r act i on i n t he cour t r oomdur i ng t hat
18 t i me.
19 THE WI TNESS: I apol ogi ze, your Honor .
20 BY MR. LESLI E:
21 Q And officer, I'm not asking you to think as
22 much as I'm asking do you recall whether or not he was
23 annoying?
24 A Annoyi ng i s not t he wor d t hat I woul d use
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 commonl y.
2 Q What word would you use?
3 A I r ecal l bei ng f r ust r at ed.
4 Q And maybe that's a better way of putting it.
5 THE COURT: Wai t , wai t , who was f r ust r at ed,
6 you?
7 THE WI TNESS: I was f r ust r at ed.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 BY MR. LESLI E:
10 Q Maybe that's a better way to ask instead of
11 asking you to characterize him.
12 Let's talk about your feelings about the
13 encounter, what was frustrating?
14 A When I woul d ask - -
15 MR. YOUNG: You honor , I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect as
16 f ar as r el evance. I ' mnot sur e whet her or not Of f i cer
17 Dur al de i s f r ust r at ed or what hi s f eel i ngs ar e have
18 any bear i ng on t he r easonabl eness of t he pat - down
19 whi ch i s at i ssue her e. The st op i t sel f i s not
20 chal l enged by t he def ense, i t ' s si mpl y t he pat - down of
21 t he subsequent sear ch. So I ' mnot sur e how t hat has
22 any bear i ng.
23 THE COURT: Wel l , I t hi nk t he of f i cer ' s
24 per cept i on t hat l ed t o t he pat - down i s cl ear l y
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 r el evant . I mean, i f he di dn' t t hi nk t her e was any
2 possi bi l i t y t hat he had weapons, t hen t he pat - down was
3 not l egi t i mat e but on t he ot her hand, i f he had r eason
4 t o bel i eve he di d, t hen t her e was.
5 MR. YOUNG: Sur e but t he emot i on of
6 f r ust r at i on doesn' t go t o t hat at al l .
7 THE COURT: I t hi nk you ar e cor r ect about
8 f r ust r at i on, but I st i l l t hi nk he has r i ght t o i nqui r e
9 as t o t he of f i cer ' s f r ame of mi nd at t hat t i me. So I
10 wi l l over r ul e t he obj ect i on.
11 MR. YOUNG: Okay. I t hought t he quest i on was
12 why you wer e f r ust r at ed, t hat ' s what I was obj ect i ng
13 t o.
14 MR. LESLI E: I t hi nk i t ' s per f ect l y r el evant .
15 He' s t est i f i ed he was f r ust r at ed.
16 THE COURT: I under st and but I st i l l amgoi ng
17 t o over r ul e t he obj ect i on. Go ahead.
18 BY MR. LESLI E:
19 Q Why were you frustrated?
20 A Mr . Coughl i n was answer i ng my quest i ons wi t h
21 quest i ons.
22 Q Any other reasons?
23 A No.
24 Q And this frustration, on your part, arose
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 before you conducted the pat-down?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Court's indulgence.
4 At one point, do you recall saying that you
5 were busy or that it was a busy night? In your
6 exchange with Mr. Coughlin, you said something to the
7 effect of, "We're busy, answer the question." Do you
8 recall that?
9 A I don' t r ecal l t hat .
10 Q Do you dispute that?
11 A I don' t r ecal l .
12 Q Were you busy that night?
13 A I don' t r ecal l .
14 Q With regard to once you put your hands on Mr.
15 Coughlin, I heard you say on direct testimony that you
16 felt no weapons; is that an accurate statement?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Now, at some point during the encounter, you
19 indicated that you spoke to two other individuals
20 named Mr. Goble and Mr. Zarate?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And is that after the initial pat-down?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Why did you ask them for their input?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 A Because I ' mnot sur e who cal l ed, but Mr .
2 Gobl e was i dent i f i ed t o me as t he vi ct i m.
3 Q And do you recall that one of those two
4 gentlemen told you that Mr. Coughlin had allegedly
5 taken the phone but one -- but that the other
6 gentleman told you that some other third party had
7 taken the phone and threatened or said that he was
8 going to throw it in the river?
9 A I don' t r ecal l t hat .
10 Q Do you recall that from your investigation in
11 this case?
12 A No.
13 Q Other than what you've testified to here
14 today, back at the time did you have any reason to
15 believe that Mr. Coughlin was actually armed with a
16 dangerous weapon?
17 A No.
18 Q Other than what you've testified to here
19 today, back at the time of the contact, did you have
20 any other reason to believe that he was a threat to
21 the safety of you as an officer or any other officer,
22 up to and including the time that you patted him down
23 for weapons?
24 A No.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 Q During your encounter with Mr. Coughlin at
2 the initial stages, did he in fact identify himself by
3 name? In fact, at one point, he even gave his Bar
4 number?
5 A I r ecal l hi msayi ng he was a l awyer and
6 gi vi ng hi s Bar number .
7 Q Okay.
8 And was that before or after the time that
9 you patted him down for weapons?
10 A I coul dn' t say f or sur e but I bel i eve i t was
11 bef or e.
12 Q Okay.
13 That would be your best recollection?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Nothing further.
16 MR. YOUNG: I have a f ew quest i ons, your
17 Honor .
18 THE COURT: Yes.
19 REDI RECT EXAMI NATI ON
20 BY MR. YOUNG:
21 Q Mr. Leslie asked you or do you recall Mr.
22 Leslie asking you that once dispatch advised of an
23 update that it was a potential larceny, he asked
24 something along the lines of would that alleviate any
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1
concern for threats or violence or weapons? I know
2
I'm misstating his exact words but something along
3
those lines; do you recall that question?
4 A Yes.
5
Q And do you recall your response was and I
6
wrote this down quote-unquote "could be." Do you
7
recall that response?
8 A I don' t r ecal l t he r esponse exact l y.
9
Q Okay.
10 A Many t i mes we' l l get i nf or mat i on f r om
11 di spat ch t hat ' s i naccur at e or mi xed. As pol i ce
12 of f i cer s, we have t o keep our guar d up or what ever
13 l i ke.
14
Q Okay.
15
And in this case, you had been receiving --
16
the larceny was an additional information that you
17
received from the first report?
18 A Yes.
19
Q Okay.
20
This group of I'll call them youths because
21
that's what Mr. Leslie uses and I think that's
22
accurate, you testified that they were more or less
23
surrounding Mr. Coughlin and at some point at least
24
some of them appeared to be agitated?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 A Yes.
2 Q And that -- were they pointing out to the
3 defendant and saying he was the subject of the call or
4 how did you determine that -- to focus your inquiry on
5 Mr. Coughlin?
6 A At f i r st , I not i ced hi s cl ot hi ng mat ched t he
7 descr i pt i on gi ven ear l i er by di spat ch. I r ecal l
8 someone poi nt i ng hi mout al so.
9 Q Okay.
10 Can you estimate -- and I know it was
11 sometime ago but can you estimate how much time passed
12 from the point that you arrived on scene until the
13 point you did the pat-down?
14 A I woul d say appr oxi mat el y t wo mi nut es.
15 Q Okay.
16 And had you had -- you hadn't had any prior
17 dealings with any of the individuals on scene before,
18 had you?
19 A No.
20 Q And you testified that you were in police
21 uniform?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did that consist of either badge or the words
24 "Police" written out in some fashion?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 A Yes.
2 Q And you testified you had your weapon belt,
3 firearm, in plain view, yes?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Arrived in a police car?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And was that a marked police car?
8 A Yes, i t was.
9 Q Okay.
10 That's all, your Honor.
11 THE COURT: Any r ecr oss?
12 MR. LESLI E: J ust a coupl e of qui ck ones i f I
13 may.
14 RECROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
15 BY MR. LESLI E:
16 Q Do you recall that at one point early in the
17 exchange between yourself and Mr. Coughlin, he asked
18 to be able to tie the dog or leash the dog somehow so
19 it wouldn't get away?
20 A I don' t r ecal l t hat .
21 Q Do you recall anything about him expressing
22 some kind of concern that he didn't want the dog to go
23 away?
24 A Not t hat I r ecal l .
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1 Q But the dog was there with him?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Court's indulgence?
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 MR. LESLI E: I di d have a f ol l ow- up quest i on
6 on t he i ssue of t he cl ot hi ng t hat was j ust asked by
7 t he pr osecut or and mysel f .
8 You i ndi cat ed Mr . Coughl i n had shor t s?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And those shorts had pockets?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And those shorts were not, you know, the
13 baggie style -- there's baggie style cargo pockets and
14 then there's more of a regular pocket and this was
15 what type?
16 A I r ecal l t hembei ng nor mal shor t s.
17 Q Okay.
18 So what that means is and I just want to nail
19 down our terms here to make sure we're communicating
20 with each other. They were not cargo pockets, right?
21 A I don' t r ecal l car go pocket s, t hat ' s cor r ect .
22 Q Okay.
23 And by cargo pockets, what I mean as pocket
24 that actually puffs out from the surface of the pant
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 55
1 or short and that's not the kind of pocket that we
2 have here; is that correct?
3 A That ' s cor r ect .
4 Q These were the kind where you -- I guess
5 maybe for demonstrative purposes, the pants I'm
6 wearing do not have cargo pants on the pants, do they?
7 A No, t hey don' t .
8 Q They have the kind where it's just a slit and
9 then the bag of the pant or the bag of the pocket
10 itself is on the inside of the pant leg?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay.
13 And that's the kind of pocket that Mr.
14 Coughlin had on his shorts that time?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Thank you. May I just have a moment
17 more?
18 The alleged offense of allegedly taking the
19 phone in question was not committed within your
20 presence, was it?
21 A No.
22 Q You were not a direct witness to that?
23 A No.
24 Q Okay.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 And the hour of the day that you arrived on
2 scene again was what, approximately?
3 A I r ecal l i t bei ng bet ween - - anywher e bet ween
4 11: 00 and 12: 00 P. M. at ni ght .
5 Q Okay.
6 So certainly after the hour of 7:00 P.M.?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Very well.
9 Thank you, your Honor. I have no further
10 questions.
11 MR. YOUNG: I do have t wo, your Honor .
12 REDI RECT EXAMI NATI ON
13 BY MR. YOUNG:
14 Q The baggie clothes or well, the loose
15 fitting, I can't remember the exact words but the
16 shorts?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Were they such that a weapon could be
19 concealed?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay.
22 They weren't so skin tight that you could
23 take a look and obviously know there's nothing in the
24 pockets?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 57
1 A No.
2 Q Okay.
3 MR. LESLI E: I have a f ol l ow up t o t hat .
4 MR. YOUNG: I have one mor e quest i on.
5 MR. LESLI E: Oh, I ' msor r y.
6 BY MR. YOUNG:
7 Q Mr. Leslie was just asking you the alleged
8 taking of the phone was not done in your presence; do
9 you recall that question just a couple of questions
10 ago and you said "No?"
11 A Yes.
12 Q Mr. Did Mr. Coughlin hand you, on his own
13 volition, the phone that was taken from his left front
14 shorts pocket?
15 A No.
16 Q You took that from his pocket after you
17 arrested him and were conducting a search incident to
18 arrest?
19 A Yes.
20 Q So while you were present, he was still in
21 possession of this phone in his left front pocket?
22 A Yes.
23 MR. LESLI E: Obj ect i on.
24 THE COURT: Obj ect i on t o what ?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 58
1 MR. LESLI E: An i mpr oper concl usi on.
2 THE COURT: What ' s t he obj ect i on t o t he
3 quest i on?
4 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , he r an t he wi t ness t hr ough
5 a ser i es of quest i ons and t hen asked t he wor ds at t he
6 end so and asked t he wi t ness t o concl ude and I t hi nk
7 t hat was an i mpr oper concl usi on under t he
8 ci r cumst ances.
9 MR. YOUNG: I ' mnot aski ng anyt hi ng wi t h
10 r espect t o t he st ol en nat ur e. I ' mj ust aski ng i f - -
11 al l I ' maski ng i s whi l e Of f i cer Dur al de was on scene
12 deal i ng di r ect l y wi t h Mr . Coughl i n, was t hi s phone
13 t hat he ul t i mat el y r ecover ed f r omhi s pocket st i l l i n
14 Mr . Coughl i n' s pocket , t hat ' s al l I ' maski ng?
15 MR. LESLI E: You sai d whi l e he was on scene,
16 t hat ' s aski ng f or a concl usi on as t o an i ndef i ni t e
17 dur at i on of t i me per i od and aski ng hi mt o concl ude
18 t hat Mr . Coughl i n had possessi on of somet hi ng t hat was
19 di sput ed.
20 THE COURT: Coul d you nar r ow i t down?
21 MR. YOUNG: Maybe I coul d r ephr ase t he
22 quest i on.
23 BY MR. YOUNG:
24 Q But from the point that you arrived on scene
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 59
1
and made contact with Mr. Coughlin, did you see
2
anybody place that phone or Mr. Coughlin place that
3
phone into his pocket?
4 A No.
5
Q Okay.
6
And you've already testified that upon your
7
arrest of Mr. Coughlin, you removed a phone which is
8
the subject of this Suppression Hearing from his
9
pocket?
10 A Yes.
11
Q Okay, good enough?
12 THE COURT: That ' s f i ne.
13 MR. LESLI E: I have no f ur t her quest i ons.
14 MR. YOUNG: I have no f ur t her quest i ons.
15 THE COURT: You may st ep down. Do you have
16 any ot her wi t nesses?
17 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , f or t he Mot i on t o
18 Suppr ess, no, t he St at e has no f ur t her evi dence.
19 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
20 I s t her e any obj ect i on t o t he of f i cer
21 l eavi ng - -
22 MR. LESLI E: I ' d l i ke t o consul t wi t h my
23 cl i ent f or j ust a moment , your Honor .
24 THE COURT: Why don' t you have a seat unt i l
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 we f i nd out .
2 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I ' ve t aken t he
3 oppor t uni t y over t he l ast f ew mi nut es, I apol ogi ze f or
4 t he del ay. I was consul t i ng wi t h Mr . Coughl i n. We
5 don' t have any wi t nesses, and he i s not el ect i ng t o
6 t est i f y at t he Suppr essi on Hear i ng at t hi s t i me.
7 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
8 Let ' s see, si nce i t ' s your mot i on, do you
9 wi sh t o go f i r st ?
10 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , i n r esponse t o your
11 ear l i er quest i on, I cer t ai nl y have no pr obl emwi t h
12 Of f i cer Dur al de bei ng i n her e dur i ng ar gument s but
13 I ' l l def er t o Mr . Lesl i e.
14 MR. LESLI E: You know, i t ' s not t est i moni al
15 i n nat ur e, i t i s ar gument . I honest l y can' t t hi nk of
16 a r eason t o bar hi mbut I don' t know why he needs t o
17 be pr esent so I ' l l def er t o t he cour t ' s best j udgment .
18 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
19 Wel l , si nce t her e i s a r ul e of excl usi on i n
20 ef f ect , I wi l l ask hi mt o wai t out si de unt i l t hi s i s
21 compl et e because t her e may be some ar gument t hat i s
22 made i f I r ul e agai nst t he mot i on t hat coul d i mpact
23 your t est i mony at t r i al .
24 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , your Honor , I t hi nk t hat
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 Mr . Goodni ght act ual l y di d a good j ob of set t i ng f or t h
2 t he appl i cabl e l aw and f r ami ng t he i ssues i n t he
3 wr i t t en Mot i on t o Suppr ess and t he f act s t hat wer e set
4 f or t h i n t her e. I know you deci de t he f act s based on
5 t he hear i ng her e. I t appear s t her e' s a pr et t y hi gh
6 degr ee of consi st ency bet ween what he wr ot e i n t he
7 mot i on and what we' ve hear d t oday.
8 I f I may summar i ze, I t hi nk t he i mpor t ant
9 f act s ar e as f ol l ows: The of f i cer i s di spat ched t o
10 somet hi ng t hat by hi s t est i mony i ni t i al l y i s descr i bed
11 by di spat ch as a di st ur bance or possi bl e f i ght but
12 bef or e t he of f i cer ar r i ves, he' s updat ed by di spat ch
13 and i t ' s i ndi cat ed t hat i t ' s a l ar ceny. Now, I ' mnot
14 ar gui ng some ki nd of suppl ant i ng of t he i nf or mat i on
15 but I ampoi nt i ng t o t he f act t hat t hat cl ar i f i cat i on
16 changes i t f r oma f i ght i ssue t o a l ar ceny i ssue.
17 When t he of f i cer ar r i ves on scene, he sees
18 what he descr i bes as a l ar ge of gr oup of peopl e and
19 i t ' s t hese yout hs or young adul t s t hat we' ve t al ked
20 about and some mi d- t eens. I t hi nk we' ve descr i bed
21 t hemi n var i ous t er ms. They ar e si t t i ng i n cl ose
22 pr oxi mi t y t o and st andi ng i n cl ose pr oxi mi t y t o and
23 accor di ng t o t he of f i cer , sur r oundi ng and emot i onal l y
24 agi t at ed or upset wi t h Mr . Coughl i n who i s i n a seat ed
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 62
1 posi t i on and f r ankl y i s sur r ounded.
2 The of f i cer get s out of hi s vehi cl e, makes
3 some i ni t i al i nqui r y and at some poi nt wi t hi n l ess
4 t han t wo mi nut es of bei ng on scene, det er mi nes t hat
5 he' s goi ng t o pat - down Mr . Coughl i n. The of f i cer ,
6 however , t est i f i ed t hat i n t hat f i r st f ew mi nut es or
7 no mor e t han 10 mi nut es, he was abl e t o ascer t ai n
8 t hat Mr . Coughl i n had a l i t t l e dog wi t h hi m. He had a
9 bi cycl e t hat was not r eal i st i cal l y, i n t he of f i cer ' s
10 mi nd, any weapon, t hat Mr . Coughl i n was wear i ng shor t s
11 and a T- shi r t st yl ed shi r t , t hat t he of f i cer does not
12 bel i eve had pocket s. He di d not see any vi si bl e
13 i ndi cat i on t hat Mr . Coughl i n had a weapon of any ki nd
14 or a devi ce t hat coul d be used as a weapon t hat woul d
15 put t he of f i cer i n har mor t hr eat of har m.
16 The of f i cer t est i f i ed and I t ook car ef ul
17 not es on t hi s and I cr oss- exami ned hi mon t hi s. He
18 sai d t hat t he basi s of t he pat - down sear ch was because
19 Mr . Coughl i n was, i n hi s wor ds, not cooper at i ve by not
20 answer i ng some quest i ons and by aski ng a quest i on i n
21 r esponse t o t he of f i cer ' s quest i on. He t est i f i ed t hat
22 Mr . Coughl i n' s demeanor was par t of t he r eason he
23 pat t ed hi mdown f or weapons.
24 We under st and, f r omt he of f i cer hi msel f , t hat
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 by demeanor , what he' s r eal l y t al ki ng about i s t he
2 of f i cer became f r ust r at ed t hat Mr . Coughl i n was f i r i ng
3 back wi t h some r het or i cal quest i ons or wi t h - - t hat ' s
4 pr obabl y not a r i ght phr aseol ogy. He was aski ng i f
5 t he of f i cer had aut hor i t y t o ask t hose quest i ons and
6 because Mr . Coughl i n had l oose cl ot hes, t hat ' s i t .
7 We' ve ci t ed t he st at ut e and some case l aw i n
8 t he mot i on, i t says t hat an of f i cer , under 172. 1232,
9 can' t conduct such a sear ch, cannot put hi s hands on a
10 ci t i zen and f eel t hei r body f or any pur pose ot her t han
11 he r easonabl y bel i eves t hat t wo t hi ngs ar e occur r i ng.
12 Number one, t hat Mr . Coughl i n was ar med wi t h a
13 danger ous weapon and number t wo, t hat Mr . Coughl i n i s
14 a t hr eat t o t he saf et y of t he of f i cer or anot her
15 of f i cer .
16 The of f i cer t est i f i ed t hat i n addi t i on t o
17 what he' s t est i f i ed her e t oday, t her e' s no ot her
18 evi dence t hat he had i n hi s mi nd back at t he t i me t o
19 t hi nk Mr . Coughl i n ei t her had a danger ous weapon or
20 was some ki nd of t hr eat t o t he saf et y of t he of f i cer s.
21 Mr . Coughl i n coul dn' t have f l ed, and t he of f i cer
22 di dn' t t hi nk t hat he was a f l i ght r i sk.
23 Al l we have i n t hi s case i s r espondi ng t o an
24 of f i cer ' s quest i on wi t h a quest i on but r emember t hat
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 64
1 t he cont ext of t hat i s t hat Mr . Coughl i n di d i dent i f y
2 hi msel f , i ndi cat ed he was a l awyer and t he of f i cer
3 bel i eves he di d i dent i f y hi msel f as a l awyer and
4 pr ovi de hi s Bar number .
5 The st at ut es i ndi cat e under NRS- 172. 123, t hat
6 " Any per son so det ai ned - - and t hi s i s under t he
7 det ent i on st at ut e, " shal l i dent i f y hi msel f or her sel f
8 but may not be compel l ed t o answer any ot her i nqui r y
9 of any peace of f i cer . " So l egal l y, Mr . Coughl i n was
10 f ul l y j ust i f i ed i n not answer i ng any quest i ons ot her
11 t han i dent i f yi ng hi msel f whi ch I bel i eve we hear d he
12 di d.
13 The of f i cer al so t est i f i ed t hat t her e was
14 good r easonabl e l i ght i ng. The of f i cer t est i f i ed t hat
15 hi s f r ust r at i on wi t h Mr . Coughl i n ar ose bef or e he
16 conduct ed t he pat - down and I suggest t o you t hat t hat
17 i s r el evant t o t he det er mi nat i on of whet her a ver y
18 vague, nonspeci f i c i n ar t i cul abl e and I use t he f act s
19 l oosel y, t hat t he of f i cer r el i es on f or t he pat - down
20 wi t h not si mpl y a r use.
21 The of f i cer was out t her e at 11: 00 or cl ose
22 t o 12: 00 mi dni ght . He' s been cal l ed out . He sees a
23 bunch of peopl e sur r oundi ng Mr . Coughl i n. Ther e' s
24 some ki nd of di sput e about a smal l per sonal i t em. Mr .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 65
1 Coughl i n i dent i f i es hi msel f but r ef uses t o answer
2 f ur t her quest i ons i n f ul l j ust i f i cat i on under
3 NRS- 171. 123 and t he of f i cer got mad.
4 THE COURT: Your br i ef i ndi cat es not t hat t he
5 of f i cer s asked hi many mor e quest i ons but t ol d hi m,
6 " J ust don' t t al k anymor e, " j ust t he opposi t e of what
7 you' r e i ndi cat i ng t oday.
8 MR. LESLI E: I t hi nk t hat t he f act ual basi s
9 of t he mot i on - - you f i l e a Mot i on t o Suppr ess based
10 on t he f act s as you under st and t hemf r omany number of
11 sour ces but as you i ndi cat ed on Monday, t hese mot i ons
12 have t o be deci ded af t er you hear f r omwi t nesses t o
13 ver i f y what f act s ar e we deal i ng wi t h.
14 I t hi nk t he f act s t hat we' ve hear d her e t oday
15 f r omt he of f i cer hi msel f and not f r omMr . Goodni ght ' s
16 i nt er pr et at i on of f act s or wr i t i ng and mot i on. The
17 of f i cer hi msel f t est i f i ed, " I got f r ust r at ed wi t h hi m
18 and i t was bef or e I di d t he pat - down. "
19 THE COURT: Wel l , I under st and he answer ed a
20 quest i on wi t h a quest i on but he di dn' t f or ce hi mt o
21 answer a quest i on. I mean, you had i ndi cat ed ear l i er
22 t hat under t he l aw, he' s onl y r equi r ed t o gi ve hi s
23 name.
24 MR. LESLI E: Ri ght .
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1 THE COURT: Li mi t ed i nf or mat i on and he di d
2 not gi ve any ot her i nf or mat i on.
3 MR. LESLI E: And par t of my poi nt t her e i s
4 t he of f i cer conf i r med t hat par t of t he behavi or of t he
5 def endant t hat l ed t he of f i cer t o conduct t he pat - down
6 f or weapons was t hat Mr . Coughl i n answer ed a quest i on
7 wi t h a quest i on and woul dn' t answer anot her quest i on.
8 My poi nt i s i f NRS- 171. 123 Subsect i on 3 says
9 t hat a det ai ned per son i s obl i gat ed t o i dent i f y
10 hi msel f but i s not obl i gat ed t o answer any f ur t her
11 quest i ons, how can t he of f i cer j ust i f y a pat - down
12 sear ch when t he subj ect of t hat sear ch i s wel l wi t hi n
13 t hei r l egal r i ght s under t he st at ut e.
14 So under t he st at ut e whi ch codi f i es basi cal l y
15 t he Ter r y doct r i ne - -
16 THE COURT: Wel l , f r omt he Ter r y, you' r e
17 t al ki ng about speci f i c ar t i cul abl e f act s t hat he has a
18 weapon. Ter r y t al ks about speci f i c ar t i cul abl e f act s
19 whi ch t aken t oget her l ead t he of f i cer r easonabl y t o
20 concl ude t hat cr i mi nal act i vi t y occur r ed - -
21 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , what I ' mt al ki ng about
22 t hough i s t he pat - down.
23 THE COURT: Wel l , I under st and but you' r e
24 sayi ng Ter r y speci f i cal l y says t hey have t o have
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1 speci f i c ar t i cul abl e f act s whi ch t aken t oget her , l ead
2 t he of f i cer t o r easonabl y concl ude t hat he has
3 weapons?
4 MR. LESLI E: Yes and i f you l ook at 171. 1232,
5 t he of f i cer has t o r easonabl y bel i eve t hat he' s ar med
6 wi t h a danger ous weapon and poses a t hr eat .
7 THE COURT: That I under st and, I was goi ng
8 of f Ter r y, Ter r y i t sel f .
9 MR. LESLI E: Coul d you r est at e your quest i on,
10 I want t o make sur e I under st and t he cour t ?
11 THE COURT: The excer pt at page 4 whi ch i s
12 act ual l y f r omSt ewar t V St at e, on t he t op of page 4,
13 l i ne 6 t al ks about ar t i cul abl e f act s whi ch t aken
14 t oget her wi t h r at i onal i nf er ences f r omt hose f act s
15 l ead t he of f i cer t o r easonabl y concl ude i n l i ght of
16 hi s exper i ence t hat cr i mi nal act i vi t y - - i naudi bl e.
17 You i ndi cat ed t hat Ter r y al so r equi r es t o do
18 t he act ual f r i sk t hat he has t o have speci f i c
19 ar t i cul abl e f act s t hat he may have weapons. I
20 under st and t he st at ut e says t hat - -
21 MR. LESLI E: Ri ght . I t hi nk Ter r y does
22 pr ovi de t hat and secondar i l y, I woul d i ndi cat e t hat
23 t he St at e of Nevada, i n enact i ng st at ut e, cannot t ake
24 away f r omt he r i ght s or pr ot ect i ons an i ndi vi dual has
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1 under f eder al l aw i . e. , t he Ter r y case. However , t he
2 St at e of Nevada can pr ovi de t he same or gr eat er
3 pr ot ect i on t o i ndi vi dual s.
4 Now, one way t o l ook at 171. 123 and 171. 1232
5 i s t o vi ew t hemas a br eak out of what you mi ght
6 gener al l y - - mor e gener al l y cal l t he Ter r y Doct r i ne
7 and t hus i n . 123, i t t al ks about ci r cumst ances
8 j ust i f yi ng a det ent i on of t he per son but i n . 1232, i f
9 I may r ead i t , act ual l y i t says, " I f any peace of f i cer
10 r easonabl y bel i eves t hat any per son whomt he per son
11 who t he peace of f i cer has det ai ned or i s about t o
12 det ai n pur suant t o NRS 171. 123, " and t hen goes on t o
13 t al k about bei ng ar med and danger ous.
14 So t he of f i cer st i l l has t o j ust i f y bot h t he
15 or i gi nal det ent i on and t he pat - down. I hope I ' m
16 addr essi ng t he cour t ' s quest i on, but t he f act - - l et ' s
17 assume f or t he sake of ar gument t hat t he det ent i on was
18 r easonabl e. A pat - down may not be r easonabl e and may
19 vi ol at e NRS- 171. 1232.
20 THE COURT: Wel l , I cer t ai nl y t hi nk t he
21 of f i cer had pr obabl e cause t o at l east quest i on.
22 MR. LESLI E: And I ' mnot sur e t hat we di sput e
23 t hat . Mr . Coughl i n i dent i f i ed hi msel f and cooper at ed.
24 What happened t hen and t hat ' s why I poi nt t o
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1 Subsect i on 3 of 171. 123 wi t h r egar d t o det ent i on and
2 t hat ' s a separ at e i ssue t han t he pat - down of t he
3 det ai nee but under t he - -
4 THE COURT: Let me get t o t he second par t
5 t hough because I under st and your ar gument t hat he had
6 no r i ght t o pat hi mdown. The second par t says
7 not hi ng sei zed by t he of f i cer i n any such sear ch i s
8 admi ssi bl e i n any pr oceedi ng unl ess t he sear ch was
9 di scl osed - - i naudi bl e. What i s i t t hat i s ceased as
10 a r esul t of a pat down?
11 As I under st ood t he t est i mony, sei zur e was as
12 a r esul t of t he sear ch i nci dent ar r est ?
13 MR. LESLI E: No, I don' t vi ew i t t hat way
14 because t he way I vi ew i t , t he way we vi ew i t i s t hat
15 you have r eal l y at l east t hr ee st ages, t he i ni t i al
16 det ent i on, t he pat - down f or weapons and t hen t he
17 sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est .
18 Was t he i ni t i al det ent i on r easonabl e such
19 t hat t he of f i cer coul d quest i on Mr . Coughl i n, obt ai n
20 hi s i dent i f i cat i on and ask hi mquest i ons, and Mr .
21 Coughl i n coul d choose t o answer or not , t hat i s under
22 NRS- 171. 123. Mr . Coughl i n had ever y r i ght t o not
23 answer t he quest i ons of t he of f i cer - -
24 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t t hi nk he di d answer
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1 t hem.
2 MR. LESLI E: Okay but not answer i ng a
3 quest i on and t her eby emot i onal l y f r ust r at i ng t he
4 of f i cer , does not j ust i f y a subsequent Ter r y sear ch
5 pat - down f or weapons. Any pat - down f or weapons has t o
6 be i ndependent l y j ust i f i ed by a r easonabl e bel i ef by
7 t he of f i cer t hat t he subj ect i s ar med wi t h a danger ous
8 weapon and i s a t hr eat t o t he of f i cer .
9 Thi s of f i cer cannot poi nt t o a si ngl e f act
10 t hat j ust i f i es t hat pat - down. We' r e seeki ng t o
11 suppr ess at t hat poi nt of t he pat - down t he i Phone and
12 al l t est i mony r el at ed t o t he i Phone. The f act t hat
13 subsequent l y pur suant t o a sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est ,
14 t he phone was t aken out of Mr . Coughl i n' s pocket i s
15 i r r el evant . I f we wi n on t he pat - down, you never get
16 t o t he sear ch i nci dent . The phone st ays out . The
17 t est i mony of t he ar r est and t he pul l i ng t he phone out
18 of t he - -
19 THE COURT: That ' s why I ' maski ng because
20 l et ' s say you wi pe out t he pat - down, you' r e sayi ng
21 t hat t he ar r est was based on t he pat - down?
22 I mean, someone had al r eady t ol d t he of f i cer
23 t hat t he def endant had hi s phone?
24 MR. LESLI E: No. As I under st and i t , t hat
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1 happened af t er t he pat - down. I asked t he of f i cer on
2 cr oss- exami nat i on, " You i ndi cat ed you spoke t o Mr .
3 Gobl e and Mr . Zar at e and got t hei r i nput , t hat was
4 af t er t he pat - down. I t hi nk t hat ' s i mpor t ant .
5 So t he of f i cer t hen - - r emember he sai d he
6 f el t no weapons but we had t o cor r ect hi m. He want ed
7 t o say or i gi nal l y, " I f el t a phone. " You pr oper l y
8 sust ai ned t he obj ect i on but i t was because of t hat
9 knowl edge, now i t ' s excl udabl e i n cour t but t he
10 of f i cer t est i f i ed he t hought i t was a phone. So he
11 pat s hi mdown, t hi nks he f eel s a phone. Doesn' t f i nd
12 any weapons. Can' t poi nt t o a si ngl e ar t i cul abl e
13 f act .
14 THE COURT: Wel l , I know you obj ect ed about
15 hi mf eel i ng a phone but t hen on t he second pocket , you
16 di dn' t obj ect when he t est i f i ed - - ( i naudi bl e) whi ch
17 was appr oxi mat el y a quar t er i nch t hi ck and what ever i t
18 was whi ch he bel i eved t o be a phone.
19 MR. LESLI E: I bel i eve I obj ect ed as t o any
20 concl usi on as t o what he f el t was a phone.
21 THE COURT: Wel l , I t hi nk t her e was t est i mony
22 t wo di f f er ent t i mes; di d I mi sunder st and t hat because
23 you obj ect ed st r enuousl y?
24 MR. LESLI E: I don' t t hi nk t hat I ' ve ever
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1 obj ect ed st r enuousl y, but I cer t ai nl y t r y not t o
2 st r oke mysel f out .
3 THE COURT: You obj ect ed.
4 MR. LESLI E: Thank you.
5 THE COURT: And I sust ai ned your obj ect i on
6 whi ch I t hought was done at t he r i ght pocket and t hen
7 t hat was subsequent t o pat - down on t he l ef t si de and
8 t hat ' s wher e he f ound t he - - ( i naudi bl e. ) When I
9 asked hi mt o descr i be what he f el t i n t he r i ght
10 pocket , he sai d he di dn' t r emember . He coul dn' t
11 descr i be i t .
12 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , I had t wo r esponses.
13 Number one, I bel i eve I obj ect ed t o any i mpr oper
14 concl usi ons about what he f el t . He coul d onl y
15 descr i be t he - -
16 THE COURT: Wel l , i t di d come i n on t he
17 r ect angul ar - shaped obj ect , al t hough I don' t r ecal l an
18 obj ect i on at t hat t i me t hat he bel i eved i t t o be a
19 phone.
20 But i n any event , you' r e ar gui ng r i ght now
21 t hat he di d poi nt ?
22 MR. LESLI E: I ' mar gui ng t hat t he of f i cer had
23 no j ust i f i cat i on under f eder al t er r y l aw or under
24 speci f i cal l y NRS 171. 1232 t o put hi s hands on Mr .
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1 Coughl i n t o ascer t ai n whet her Mr . Coughl i n had a
2 weapon because t he of f i cer cannot ar t i cul at e a
3 r easonabl e basi s t o bel i eve, at t he t i me, t hat Mr .
4 Coughl i n was ar med wi t h a danger ous weapon and a
5 t hr eat t o t he saf et y of t he of f i cer .
6 THE COURT: And t hat ' s 171. 1232?
7 MR. LESLI E: Yes and i t ' s Subsect i on 1 of
8 t hat . Then as you cor r ect l y poi nt ed out under
9 Subsect i on 2, an unl awf ul sei zur e of t he phone
10 excl udes t hat phone and by t he doct r i ne of t he f r ui t
11 of t he poi sonous t r ee, we can' t hear t est i mony about
12 t he phone.
13 THE COURT: Okay. Anyt hi ng el se?
14 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , your Honor , t her e ar e a
15 number of ot her ar gument s cont ai ned i n t he wr i t t en
16 mot i on. I t hi nk - - i f I may sor t of move backwar ds
17 and ar gue t hose addi t i onal poi nt s, f or exampl e - -
18 cour t ' s i ndul gence.
19 I t hi nk most of t he ar gument we' ve addr essed
20 so f ar has been wi t h r egar d t o t he ar gument begi nni ng
21 on page 3 of our wr i t t en mot i on wi t h r egar d t o t he
22 ar med and danger ous pat - down. Addi t i onal l y - - cour t ' s
23 i ndul gence. Addi t i onal l y, your Honor , we' ve submi t t ed
24 some poi nt s and aut hor i t i es begi nni ng at page 6 wi t h
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1 r egar d t o t he t ouchi ng of t he phone f r omt he out si de.
2 We' ve al so ar gued at page 7 wi t h r egar d t o t he pl ai n
3 f i el d doct r i ne and wi t h r egar d i n our r epl y br i ef . I
4 t hi nk t hat t hose i ssues have been adequat el y pr eser ved
5 i n t he mot i on and r epl y.
6 The mai n i mpor t of our mot i on her e t oday i s
7 t hat t he of f i cer was unj ust i f i ed i n pat t i ng Mr .
8 Coughl i n down f or weapons under ei t her Ter r y ver sus
9 Ohi o or t he mor e speci f i c Nevada st at ut es we' ve ci t ed
10 and t al ked about . The ot her i ssues ar e moot ed i f you
11 r ul e i n our f avor on t he mai n ar gument because
12 ever yt hi ng el se f ol l ows subsequent l y t o t hat .
13 Ther e' s no - - t her e' s r eal l y no f aul t of
14 anyone her e, i t ' s j ust t hat t he St at e hasn' t
15 necessar i l y done anyt hi ng wr ong. The of f i cer di dn' t
16 do anyt hi ng wr ong, i t ' s j ust t hat t he St at e cannot
17 show you t hr ough t he t est i mony of t he ver y of f i cer
18 t hat conduct ed t he pat - down sear ch, cannot show you
19 t he f act s and t he r easonabl eness of t hat pat - down, of
20 t hat ar med of f i cer put t i ng hi s hands on t he ci t i zen
21 when al l t he of f i cer can r eal l y poi nt t o i s t hat t he
22 def endant f r ust r at ed t he of f i cer , woul dn' t answer
23 quest i ons t hat t he def endant has no l egal obl i gat i on
24 t o answer and happened t o be wear i ng l oose cl ot hi ng.
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1 No vi si bl e weapons. No i ndi cat i on of f l i ght . No
2 i ndi cat i on of aggr essi on t owar ds t he of f i cer , j ust
3 some ar gument at i on per haps, per haps not answer i ng t he
4 way t he of f i cer want ed but al l of t hat was Mr .
5 Coughl i n st andi ng on hi s l egal r i ght s.
6 So our posi t i on i s t hat what you shoul d do i s
7 suppr ess t he i Phone. Suppr ess any t est i mony wi t h
8 r egar d t o i t . I t hi nk t he pr act i cal - -
9 THE COURT: What woul d be a r easonabl e - -
10 i naudi bl e.
11 MR. LESLI E: I don' t t hi nk t hat we' r e her e t o
12 deci de what woul d be because i t ' s a - - i t i nvol ves
13 some specul at i on. We' r e her e t o deci de t hi s case
14 based on what t he f act s act ual l y ar e accor di ng t o t he
15 of f i cer .
16 THE COURT: Wel l , I under st and t hat but
17 pat - down sear ches occur ever y day f or weapons
18 of t ent i mes subsequent t o an ar r est .
19 MR. LESLI E: But t hi s was pr i or t o t he
20 ar r est .
21 THE COURT: I under st and t hat and i t was
22 pr i or t o hi mbei ng i n handcuf f s t oo; i s t hat cor r ect ?
23 MR. LESLI E: I hear d t he t est i mony of t he
24 of f i cer and i t appear s t hat t hat ' s what t he of f i cer
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1 t est i f i ed t o, t hat he cuf f ed hi mi n r esponse t o Mr .
2 Coughl i n cl ai mi ng or asser t i ng t hat t he of f i cer had
3 t ouched hi mi n a way t hat was obj ect i onabl e by Mr .
4 Coughl i n.
5 THE COURT: But i f he act ual l y has t o see i t
6 or say I act ual l y f ound a weapon.
7 MR. LESLI E: I ' mnot sayi ng ei t her of t hose.
8 What I ' msayi ng i s t hat i n t hi s case, we don' t have an
9 of f i cer sayi ng he saw a weapon or any i ndi cat i on of
10 weapon. Ther e' s no decl ar at i on by t he def endant t hat
11 woul d i ndi cat e he mi ght have a weapon. I ' msayi ng
12 t hat you don' t have t hose f act s i n t hi s case. I ' mnot
13 sayi ng t hat t he of f i cer s ar e const r ai ned and f or bi dden
14 f r omdoi ng a pat - down, t hat t hey ar e al l owed t o do
15 t hat onl y i f t hey can act ual l y see a weapon. That ' s
16 not t he l aw.
17 But t her e' s not hi ng about any of t he f act s
18 t hat t he of f i cer t est i f i ed t o t hat speci f i cal l y gi ves
19 hi mcause t o put hi s hands on Mr . Coughl i n and pat hi m
20 down f or weapons. The onl y t hi ng an of f i cer can say
21 i s, " He woul dn' t answer my quest i ons. I was
22 f r ust r at ed. He had pant s t hat wer e not ski n t i ght , "
23 t hat ' s i t , r eal l y, t hat ' s not suf f i ci ent cause f or an
24 of f i cer t o put hi s hands on a ci t i zen.
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1 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
2 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I ' l l be br i ef .
3 The def endant i n hi s Mot i on f or Suppr essi on,
4 set s f or t h t hr ee ar gument s, t hat ' s what t he St at e
5 r esponded t o and t hat ' s what t he scope of t hi s hear i ng
6 i s about . You wer e aski ng about t he St ewar t case on
7 Page 4 of t he def endant ' s mot i on. The r eason t hat i s
8 di f f er ent t han t he basi s t o do a pat - down sear ch i s
9 because t hose ar e t wo separ at e st andar ds addr essi ng
10 t wo di f f er ent t hi ngs.
11 Ter r y and t hen t he accompanyi ng Nevada
12 st at ut es whi ch essent i al l y codi f y Ter r y 171. 123 and
13 171. 1232 addr ess t wo separ at e concer ns. The f i r st
14 par t of t he Ter r y i s i s t her e a basi s t o even st op a
15 per son, det ai n a per son. The second - -
16 THE COURT: I don' t need t o wast e t i me on
17 t hat .
18 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , t hey don' t even addr ess
19 t hat i n t hei r mot i on, and I put t hat i n a f oot not e i n
20 my opposi t i on, f oot not e t hr ee sayi ng, " The def endant
21 does not cl ai mt hat hi s det ent i on i t sel f was i mpr oper
22 and as such, t he St at e does not addr ess such, " and
23 t her e' s no r esponse t o t hat i n t he r epl y.
24 So t her e i s - - t her e' s no i ssue wi t h t he
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1 det ent i on par t . So you wer e aski ng about St ewar t how
2 t hat vi bes wi t h t he pat - down f or weapons. I t doesn' t ,
3 t hose ar e t wo separ at e i ssues and your Honor needs t o
4 be cl ear on t hat t hat we' r e t al ki ng about t wo separ at e
5 t hi ngs wi t h Ter r y.
6 The det ent i on i s i nqui r y number one whi ch has
7 not been chal l enged her e and i s not at i ssue her e.
8 The second pr ong of Ter r y and t hat ' s 171. 1232. J ust
9 because t her e' s a det ent i on, Mr . Lesl i e i s r i ght t hat
10 doesn' t aut omat i cal l y gi ve t he of f i cer t he r i ght t o do
11 a cur sor y pat - down sear ch. We' r e al l cl ear on t he l aw
12 t hat t hat ' s got t o be r easonabl e suspi ci on t hat t he
13 per son i s ar med and danger ous.
14 I f you l ook at my ci t e on Page 4 of my
15 opposi t i on, i t ' s t he Rust l i ng case, 96778, " An of f i cer
16 need not be absol ut el y cer t ai n t hat t he i ndi vi dual ' s
17 ar med. The i ssue i s whet her a r easonabl y pr udent man
18 i n t he ci r cumst ances woul d be war r ant ed i n t he bel i ef
19 t hat hi s saf et y or t hat of ot her s was i n danger , " not
20 ot her of f i cer s but ot her s i n danger .
21 " The r easonabl e basi s f or t he pat - down ar i ses
22 f r omt he ci r cumst ances sur r oundi ng t he st op as wel l as
23 t he speci f i c f act s of t he ci t i zen' s r eact i on. " What
24 Mr . Lesl i e want s t o char act er i ze i s si mpl y
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1 l oose- f i t t i ng cl ot hes and bei ng ar gument at i ve. But i f
2 you r ecal l t he of f i cer ' s t est i mony i n f ul l , he gave
3 sever al f act or s. One, pr i or t o hi s ar r i val , he
4 l ear ned t hat - - hi s t est i mony, l oud di st ur bance and
5 possi bl e f i ght t hat mor phed i nt o a cal l of pot ent i al
6 l ar ceny. So he' s get t i ng conf l i ct i ng r epor t s f r om
7 di spat ch, i s goi ng i nt o t hi s t hi ng not knowi ng exact l y
8 what ' s goi ng on. Upon cont act , t he def endant i s bei ng
9 uncooper at i ve.
10 Now, Mr . Lesl i e, I don' t t end t o di sagr ee
11 when he says, he i f someone want s t o asser t t hei r
12 r i ght s, you can' t hol d t hat agai nst t hem, and I do not
13 di sagr ee wi t h t hat , but t he t est i mony was t he f i r st
14 st at ement by t he of f i cer t o Mr . Coughl i n was, " Hey, i f
15 you gi ve t he phone back, we can al l go on our way. "
16 I bel i eve t he exact wor ds wer e somet hi ng al ong t he
17 l i nes of , " Mr . Gobl e may not pr ess char ges. "
18 Had he j ust r el i ed on hi s si l ence, I woul d
19 agr ee t hat t he St at e can' t use t hat agai nst hi mbut
20 what Mr . Coughl i n di d was not si mpl y r el y on hi s
21 r i ght s, he became ar gument at i ve sayi ng, " You don' t
22 have a basi s t o conduct a Ter r y st op, " t hat ' s not
23 r el yi ng on hi s r i ght s, t hat i s bei ng ar gument at i ve and
24 conf r ont at i onal . So you can consi der t hat .
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1 The t est i mony was al so t hat t her e' s mul t i pl e
2 peopl e on scene. The t est i mony we' ve hear d about t he
3 cl ot hes t hat coul d conceal a weapon, and you hear d
4 about hi s t r ai ni ng and exper i ence. The key t o t hi s i s
5 t her e' s not one f act t hat cont r ol s. The cour t can
6 consi der under t he t ot al i t y of t he ci r cumst ances i f
7 t her e was a r easonabl e bel i ef f or a weapon, and t he
8 t est i mony of Of f i cer Dur al de bei ng t her e f or
9 t wo mi nut es mor e or l ess wi t h al l of t hi s goi ng on,
10 possi bl e f i ght , l oud di st ur bance, peopl e ar e agi t at ed,
11 i t i s cer t ai nl y appr opr i at e f or t hemt o do a cur sor y
12 pat - down sear ch, t hat i s t ot al l y separ at e t han i s
13 t her e a basi s t o det ai n and t hat ' s not bei ng
14 chal l enged her e. The onl y quest i on i s i s t her e a
15 basi s t o do a pat - down and under al l of t hose f act s,
16 t he t ot al i t y of t he ci r cumst ances, i t cer t ai nl y i s.
17 I ' mnot goi ng t o bel abor t he poi nt because i t ' s
18 st r ai ght f or war d.
19 THE COURT: I don' t t hi nk i t ' s al l t hat
20 st r ai ght f or war d because as r easonabl y bel i eves i s
21 ar med wi t h a danger ous weapon and t he of f i cer
22 t est i f i ed t hat - - he speci f i cal l y t est i f i ed I bel i eve
23 t hat somet hi ng t o t he ef f ect of t her e was no evi dence
24 or t hat he di dn' t - - I wi sh I had wr i t t en i t down, but
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1 I di dn' t . He di dn' t know t hat he had a weapon.
2 But can you gi ve me an exampl e f r omany of
3 t hese cases what - - ( i naudi bl e) suf f i ci ent t o
4 r easonabl y bel i eve t hat a per son who' s det ai ned i s
5 ar med wi t h a danger ous weapon?
6 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , as t o your f i r st
7 quest i on, t her e' s no r equi r ement t hat an of f i cer know
8 t hat an i ndi vi dual i s ar med t o do a sear ch. I f an
9 of f i cer knows t hat an i ndi vi dual i s ar med, t hat
10 cer t ai nl y meet s t he t hr eshol d of r easonabl e suspi ci on.
11 So j ust because t her e' s an absence of t hat ,
12 doesn' t negat e t he f ur t her i nqui r y and agai n, you l ook
13 t o t he t ot al i t y of t he ci r cumst ances and ever yt hi ng
14 t hat Of f i cer Dur al de t est i f i ed t o about t he
15 di st ur bance, t he number of peopl e, a possi bl e f i ght ,
16 agi t at i on, Mr . Coughl i n' s ar gument at i ve st at e, not
17 si mpl y si t t i ng back r el yi ng on hi s r i ght s but t aki ng
18 t hat addi t i onal st ep i n bei ng ar gument at i ve, t hat ' s
19 cer t ai nl y - - and agai n, t he t r ai ni ng and exper i ence
20 t hat he t est i f i ed t o t hat , hey, t her e coul d be weapons
21 her e. Ther e doesn' t need t o be anyt hi ng concr et e, i f
22 you wi l l , i t ' s under t he t ot al i t y of t he ci r cumst ances
23 i s i t r easonabl e t o bel i eve - -
24 THE COURT: Wel l , t her e al ways can be weapons
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1 and f or of f i cer ' s saf et y - - I mean, an of f i cer
2 nor mal l y woul d do a pat - down but t hi s st at ut e r equi r es
3 t hat an of f i cer r easonabl y bel i eve t he a per son i s
4 war med a danger ous weapon.
5 MR. YOUNG: Cor r ect , t hat ' s t he st at ut e. I
6 don' t di sagr ee wi t h t hat , t hat ' s - - and agai n, Mr .
7 Lesl i e and I do not di sagr ee i n t hi s r egar d. An
8 of f i cer can' t j ust go up t o someone on t he st r eet and
9 r andoml y conduct a pat - down sear ch, t hat ' s what t he
10 st at ut e pr ohi bi t s.
11 I n t hi s case, t hat ' s not what happened. Thi s
12 i s not Of f i cer Dur al de wal ki ng up t o Mr . Coughl i n
13 r andoml y and choosi ng hi mat wi l l .
14 THE COURT: ( I naudi bl e. ) The next pat - down,
15 and I don' t r ecal l t he speci f i c f act s i n Ter r y except
16 t hey wer e out si de some war ehouse di st r i ct wher e t her e
17 have been a number of bur gl ar i es. Do you r ecal l what
18 t he f act s wer e t her e t hat l ed t o - - t he of f i cer t o
19 have r easonabl e bel i ef t hat t hey mi ght have weapons?
20 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t hat ' s t he beaut y and
21 t he cur se of Ter r y I guess i s t hat t her e i s no
22 boi l er pl at e f or what ' s r equi r ed or necessar y.
23 So agai n, you have t o l ook at t he speci f i c
24 f act s of t hi s case t o det er mi ne i f t her e' s a basi s and
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1 t hat ' s why I ' mgoi ng t hr ough al l t hese el ement s and - -
2 not el ement s, al l t hese f act s as t est i f i ed by Of f i cer
3 Dur al de as t o okay t her e was a r easonabl e bel i ef .
4 Ther e was r easonabl e suspi ci on t hat a pat - down sear ch
5 was appr opr i at e based on t he encount er , t he
6 def endant ' s r eact i on. The sur r oundi ng peopl e' s
7 r eact i on, ever yt hi ng t hat di spat ch advi sed, t he
8 ar gument of t he St at e, hi s f i ve and a hal f year s of
9 t r ai ni ng and exper i ence and al l t hese t hi ngs t hat he
10 t est i f i ed t o, t hat ' s what pr ovi des you wi t h r easonabl e
11 suspi ci on.
12 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
13 MR. YOUNG: So agai n my ul t i mat e - - so as f ar
14 as t he pat - down, I woul d submi t i t was appr opr i at e, i t
15 was war r ant ed under t he f act s of t hi s as appl i ed by
16 case l aw and st at ut es.
17 As t o t he second ar gument t hat t he def ense
18 makes - - and agai n, t he det ent i on i s not even an
19 i ssue, i t ' s si mpl y t he pat - down. The second ar gument
20 t he def ense makes, i f you r ecal l t he t est i mony, t he
21 back of Of f i cer Dur al de' s hand t o t he pocket of Mr .
22 Coughl i n const i t ut es a sear ch. Agai n, t hat ' s - - I ' ve
23 br i ef ed t hat and i t ' s so i nnocuous, i t ' s so mi ni mal l y
24 i nt r usi ve, i f at al l . You can' t r eal l y cal l i t a
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 sear ch. So agai n, t hat doesn' t f or many basi s f or
2 excl usi on.
3 And t hen f i nal l y, t he pl ai n f i el d doct r i ne
4 t hat Mr . Goodni ght dr af t ed, i t has zer o appl i cabi l i t y
5 t o t hi s case because t he ver y cl ear t est i mony i s t he
6 f i r st t i me Of f i cer Dur al de goes i nt o Mr . Coughl i n' s
7 pocket i s af t er ar r est .
8 Di cker son i n pl ai n f i el d what t hat says i s
9 dur i ng a pat - down pr i or t o ar r est , dur i ng pat - down i f
10 I ' mpat t i ng and I f eel boom, t hi s i s a met h pi pe and
11 i mmedi at el y t he of f i cer knows t hat ' s a met h pi pe even
12 t hough i t ' s onl y a pat - down f or weapons, Di cker son
13 i n pl ai n f i el d al l ows t he of f i cer t o go i nt o t he
14 pocket and r emove t hat met h pi pe, t hat has no bear i ng
15 her e because Of f i cer Dur al de i s doi ng t he pat - down,
16 f eel s t he i t emwhi ch hi s t est i mony was a f our by t hr ee
17 by hal f i nch i t em. Hi s t est i mony, whi ch was not
18 obj ect ed t o whi ch r esembl ed a phone. Now, i t was not
19 concl usor y. He' s not sayi ng i t was a phone, but he
20 gave t he speci f i c di mensi ons of what he f el t and he
21 sai d i t r esembl ed a phone. He di d not r each i n at
22 t hat poi nt . Had he done t hat , t hen I woul d agr ee t hat
23 i t shoul d be suppr essed but he di dn' t . He cont i nued.
24 THE COURT: Why woul d you agr ee i t shoul d be
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 suppr essed when you j ust sai d had i t been a met h pi pe
2 - -
3 MR. YOUNG: Because a met h pi pe i s
4 i mmedi at el y appar ent t hat i t ' s cont r aband.
5 THE COURT: Okay. So i t ' s not i mmedi at el y
6 appar ent t hat t hat phone was t he mi ssi ng phone?
7 MR. YOUNG: I ' mnot maki ng t he ar gument t hat
8 he coul d have gone i n and gr abbed t hat phone but i n
9 any event , i t doesn' t mat t er because he di dn' t .
10 That ' s my poi nt as t o t he def ense' s t hi r d ar gument
11 t hat i t ' s whol l y i nappl i cabl e t o t hi s case. I ' mnot
12 f r ankl y sur e why t hat ar gument was made.
13 THE COURT: So you' r e not cont est i ng t he
14 pl ai n f i el d?
15 MR. YOUNG: I t ' s not appl i cabl e her e. So I
16 can' t cont est or not cont est , i t ' s not appl i cabl e.
17 THE COURT: Yeah but you wer e j ust sayi ng, as
18 I under st and i t , you' r e not ar gui ng t hat havi ng done
19 t hat , i t woul d have been an i mpr oper sear ch?
20 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , i t di dn' t happen her e
21 so I can' t r eal l y addr ess t hat .
22 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , t hat ' s f i ne.
23 MR. YOUNG: But her e' s t he i r oni c t hi ng of
24 t hi s ent i r e exer ci se i s t hat you know t he St at e' s
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1 posi t i on t hat t he pat - down was appr opr i at e, and t her e
2 shoul d be no suppr essi on but even - - and t hi s i s par t
3 D of my mot i on or my opposi t i on r at her whi ch st ar t s on
4 page 9.
5 Thi s i s t he i nt er est i ng t hi ng of t hi s whol e
6 exer ci se of a Mot i on t o Suppr ess i s t hat even i f your
7 Honor f i nds t hat t her e was no basi s t o do a pat - down,
8 and I don' t see anyt hi ng r eal l y i n t hi s - - i n t he
9 r epl y even whi ch def eat s t hi s ar gument whi ch I ' mabout
10 t o make.
11 I f you f i nd, f or ar gument ' s sake, t hat t he
12 pat - down was i nappr opr i at e, you can' t t hen j ump
13 aut omat i cal l y and say, " Wel l , t he phone i s suppr essed
14 because t hat goes t o sei zed evi dence and as i s ver y
15 cl ear , Of f i cer Dur al de di d not sei ze t he phone based
16 on t hat pat - down.
17 THE COURT: Wel l , I asked t hat ver y quest i on.
18 MR. YOUNG: Exact l y and you nai l ed i t on t he
19 head. So t her e' s - - al l t hat you woul d suppr ess t hen
20 woul d be Of f i cer Dur al de' s t est i mony of I f el t a f our
21 by t hr ee and a hal f by hal f i nch i t emwhi ch r esembl ed
22 a phone because pr obabl e cause t o ar r est whi ch i s
23 f or med by al l t he ot her f act s you' ve hear d, Mr . Gobl e
24 sayi ng, " He t ook my phone and he' s not gi vi ng i t back.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 We cal l ed i t and we saw i t l i ght up i n hi s pocket . "
2 Of f i cer Dur al de t hen obt ai ni ng t hat phone
3 number , cal l i ng t he same phone number and hear i ng i t
4 vi br at e and when he hung up, i t st ops vi br at i ng, t hat
5 f or ms pr obabl e cause t o ar r est whi ch wi l l t hen al l ow a
6 sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est and we' r e not even t al ki ng
7 about Ter r y anymor e.
8 Now, we can go i nt o t he pocket because i t ' s a
9 t hor ough sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est , as I out l i ned i n
10 my mot i on. That ' s a f ul l on we' r e t aki ng you t o j ai l .
11 We' r e sear chi ng ever yt hi ng, t hat ' s appr opr i at e. So
12 now - -
13 THE COURT: Let me j ust ask you one ot her
14 t hi ng.
15 MR. YOUNG: Sur e.
16 THE COURT: I f I gr ant t he Mot i on t o Suppr ess
17 and f ur t her f i nd t hat t he put t i ng t he hand on t he
18 out si de of t he pocket when he di al ed t hat phone number
19 was a sear ch, whi ch you say i t wasn' t , assumi ng I do
20 f i nd a sear ch and I suppr ess t hat t est i mony as wel l , I
21 st i l l have t he pr obabl e cause f or t he ar r est based on
22 t he vi ct i m' s st at ement t o t he of f i cer t hat t he phone
23 was st ol en; i s t hat your posi t i on?
24 MR. YOUNG: That pl us t he f ol l ow- up
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 i nvest i gat i on by Of f i cer Dur al de wher e he
2 i ndependent l y ver i f i ed what Mr . Gobl e t ol d hi mby
3 l i kewi se cal l i ng t he phone and hear i ng i t vi br at e
4 consi st ent wi t h hi s cal l . I f i t ' s j ust Mr . Gobl e
5 sayi ng, " Hey, he st ol e i t , you know, t hat ' s nei t her
6 her e nor t her e but maybe but now Of f i cer Dur al de
7 t akes t hat one addi t i onal st ep and says you know what ,
8 I ' mgoi ng t o f ol l ow up on t hi s. I obt ai n t he number
9 whi ch i s pur por t edl y i n Mr . Coughl i n' s pocket and - -
10 THE COURT: I don' t bel i eve cal l i ng t he phone
11 i s a sear ch and hear i ng i t vi br at e, but t her e' s an
12 ar gument t hat t ouchi ng t he def endant ' s l ef t pocket and
13 f eel i ng i t vi br at e t hat t hat was a sear ch.
14 MR. YOUNG: And agai n, f or ar gument ' s sake
15 even t aki ng t hat as a sear ch, t hr ow t hat out . You
16 cannot consi der Of f i cer Dur al de t ouchi ng of Mr .
17 Coughl i n' s l eg. Take f or ar gument ' s sake t he pat - down
18 sear ch. Thr ow out , " Wel l , when I was doi ng t hi s
19 pat - down sear ch, I f el t a f our by t hr ee by hal f i nch
20 i t emwhi ch r esembl ed a phone. "
21 Al l r i ght , f i ne, t hr ow t hose t hi ngs out , what
22 you st i l l have i s Cor y Gobl e sayi ng, " He t ook my
23 phone. " Di spat ch sayi ng, " Thi s i s i n r egar ds t o a
24 l ar ceny, " and Of f i cer Dur al de f ol l owi ng up sayi ng,
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 " Yeah, hi s phone i s i n your pocket whi ch i s t he exact
2 same pocket Cor y Gobl e t ol d me i t ' s i n because when I
3 cal l ed i t , I not onl y f el t i t but I hear d i t vi br at e, "
4 t hat ' s not a sear ch. Cer t ai nl y, t hat ' s not chal l enged
5 i n t he Mot i on t o Suppr ess.
6 That ' s what I ' msayi ng i s t hat ' s t he f unny
7 t hi ng about t hi s ent i r e mot i on i s t hat even i f you
8 t ake al l of t he def ense' s ar gument s and t hey pr evai l
9 on al l t hei r ar gument s, whi ch I ' mnot sayi ng t hey
10 shoul d, but even i f you do, t he phone st i l l comes i n
11 because i t was not sei zed pr i or t o t he sear ch i nci dent
12 t o ar r est . I t was not sei zed as a r esul t of t he
13 pat - down or t he t ouchi ng of t he shor t s pocket . So
14 i t ' s not f r ui t of t he poi sonous t r ee.
15 So f or Mr . Lesl i e t o say because of t hese
16 t hi ngs you shoul d suppr ess i t , i t ' s j ust pat ent l y
17 i ncor r ect , i t st i l l comes i n as a l awf ul sear ch
18 i nci dent t o ar r est , t hat ' s what I put f or t h i n
19 subpar agr aph D of my opposi t i on and l ooki ng at t he
20 r epl y, t her e' s not hi ng t o r eal l y r ebut t hat because i t
21 can' t be r ebut t ed, i t ' s - - i t i s what i t i s, i t was a
22 sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est , and t hey r ecover ed t he
23 phone f r omt her e, i t wasn' t t he def endant who pul l ed
24 t he phone out and sai d, " Oh, her e, l et me gi ve t hi s t o
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 you. " I t was af t er ar r est and Of f i cer Dur al de
2 r ecover ed t he phone.
3 I f you l ook - -
4 THE COURT: Act ual l y, I don' t t hi nk I hear d
5 t est i mony on t hi s because - -
6 MR. YOUNG: Yes, you di d, i t was obj ect ed t o
7 and t hen you al l owed me t o get i nt o i t and t hat ' s why
8 I want ed t o get i nt o i t f or t hat r eason. He sai d mor e
9 t han once and ver y cl ear l y t he f i r st t i me he put hi s
10 hands i nt o Mr . Coughl i n' s pocket and t he f i r st t i me he
11 r emoved t hat was af t er ar r est .
12 THE COURT: Okay, you' r e r i ght .
13 MR. YOUNG: And t he l ast t hi ng I ' l l say, your
14 Honor , wi t h r espect t o t he pr obabl e cause ar gument I ' m
15 maki ng and you' r e sayi ng wel l , how do we know Cor y
16 Gobl e. I t hi nk Mr . Lesl i e used t he phr ase " a r use" or
17 somet hi ng si mi l ar . I f you l ook at t he Sonnef i el d case
18 whi ch I ci t ed on page 10 of my opposi t i on, 114 Nevada,
19 631, i t ci t es wi t h appr oval a case whi ch f ound a
20 wi t ness t o be quot e, " A r el i abl e ci t i zen wi t ness due
21 t o t he exi gency of t he ci r cumst ances and t he appar ent
22 l ack of an ul t er i or mot i ve. "
23 Ther e' s been no t est i mony t oday t hat Mr .
24 Gobl e i s doi ng t hi s as a r use or maki ng any of t hi s
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1 up. So you have Mr . Gobl e' s st at ement sayi ng, " Hey,
2 hi s phone i s i n t he l ef t f r ont shor t s pocket , " or Mr .
3 Zar at e, I can' t r emember whi ch one but someone t el l i ng
4 t he of f i cer , " Cor y Gobl e' s phone i s i n hi s l ef t
5 pocket . " You have Of f i cer Dur al de f ol l owi ng up on
6 t hat and conf i r mi ng, " Yeah, t her e' s hi s phone, " t hat ' s
7 pr obabl e cause, t hat al l ows a sear ch i nci dent t o
8 ar r est .
9 MR. LESLI E: Last wor d?
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , t he t est i mony we
12 l ear ned her e t oday and t he f act s t hat wer e cl ar i f i ed
13 t hr ough t he of f i cer ' s t est i mony wer e t hat he put hi s
14 hands on Mr . Coughl i n and sear ched hi mf or weapons f or
15 basi cal l y t wo or t hr ee r easons because Mr . Coughl i n
16 woul dn' t answer a quest i on ot her t han by sayi ng, " I
17 don' t have t o answer t hat , " and aski ng hi m, " Ar e you
18 j ust i f i ed under Ter r y i n aski ng me t hat ?"
19 Because of Mr . Coughl i n' s demeanor whi ch t he
20 of f i cer admi t s emot i onal l y f r ust r at ed hi mpr i or t o t he
21 t i me t hat he di d t he pat - down sear ch and because he
22 had l oose cl ot hi ng on. The over al l anal ysi s under
23 Ter r y, under t he st at ut es of Nevada i s r easonabl eness.
24 So t he quest i on i s i s i t r easonabl e f or an
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 of f i cer on pat r ol ar r i vi ng on scene t o pat somebody
2 down f or weapons when he admi t s, " I di dn' t see any
3 weapons. " Mr . Coughl i n appear ed t o be t he one
4 sur r ounded by t he young peopl e. He di dn' t have any
5 i ndi cat i on i n hi s hands t hat he had a weapon. " I
6 coul dn' t see anyt hi ng wi t h r egar d t o bul ges i n hi s
7 cl ot hi ng or anyt hi ng el se t hat i ndi cat ed t hat he had a
8 weapon. "
9 " Why di d you put your hands on Mr . Coughl i n,
10 of f i cer ?"
11 " I put my hand on hi mi n sear ch f or weapons
12 because he woul dn' t answer my quest i on because he
13 f r ust r at ed me and he had l oose cl ot hes on, " and t hat ' s
14 r eal l y t he i r r educi bl e har d f act s t hat you have bef or e
15 you. That i s t he t est i mony f r omt he of f i cer i t sel f .
16 THE COURT: ( I naudi bl e. )
17 MR. LESLI E: So based on hi s t r ai ni ng and
18 exper i ence and I don' t mean t o ar gue wi t h t he cour t
19 but i f I may pose - -
20 THE COURT: And t her e was conf r ont at i on.
21 MR. LESLI E: I f I may put i t i n a r het or i cal
22 f ashi on. So based on hi s t r ai ni ng and exper i ence,
23 he' s t r ai ned and he' s exper i enced and i f somebody onl y
24 pr ovi des t hei r i dent i f yi ng i nf or mat i on whi ch t he l aw
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1 r equi r es, doesn' t answer quest i ons whi ch t he l aw
2 pr ot ect s Mr . Coughl i n f r omdoi ng, f r ust r at es t he
3 of f i cer on an emot i onal l evel and happens t o be
4 wear i ng baggi e pant s, he can sear ch hi mf or weapons.
5 I f t he over al l anal ysi s i s r easonabl eness, t hi nk of i t
6 t hi s way. You have al l t hese cases, t hese Ter r y st yl e
7 cases and t hey may be i n Wi sconsi n. They may be i n
8 Nevada. They may be i n New Yor k, but you have t he
9 f act ual r eci t at i on and t hen you have t he cour t r ul i ng
10 sayi ng under t hese f act s, i t was r easonabl e f or t he
11 ar med uni f or med of f i cer t o put hi s hands on t he
12 ci t i zen and pat t hemdown f or weapons. Then t he
13 publ i c l ooks at t hat t hr ough t he l ens of
14 r easonabl eness.
15 How do we j ust i f y, i n t hi s case, expl ai ni ng
16 t o t he publ i c t hat under t he l aws of Nevada and under
17 t he f eder al l aw of Ter r y ver sus Ohi o and i t ' s pr ogeny,
18 pol i ce ar e aut hor i zed t o pat you down and t ouch your
19 body i nt r usi vel y enough t o det er mi ne i f you have a
20 weapon or t o di scover t hat you have par apher nal i a when
21 al l you' ve done as a ci t i zen i s say, " Her e' s my name.
22 Her e' s my Bar number . I ' mnot goi ng t o answer your
23 quest i ons. "
24 Now, t hey ar e ar gument at i ve. They have l oose
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1 cl ot hi ng and t hey' ve made t he of f i cer mad. So
2 ci t i zens needs t o under st and t hat you can' t ar gue wi t h
3 an of f i cer and f r ust r at e hi mand wear baggi e cl ot hi ng
4 or you' r e goi ng t o get pat t ed down f or weapons and
5 t hat ' s essent i al l y what your deni al of t he Mot i on t o
6 Suppr ess i n t hi s case woul d be sayi ng.
7 I know i t ' s f r ust r at i ng because you' r e t r yi ng
8 t o ask us wel l , what ar e t he f act s t hat woul d j ust i f y
9 and bot h si des I t hi nk ar e sayi ng t o t he cour t i t ' s a
10 case by case anal ysi s, i t ' s an anal ysi s of t he
11 t ot al i t y of t he ci r cumst ances, but t hose t ot al
12 ci r cumst ances must be speci f i c. Ther e must be some
13 r easonabl e basi s.
14 Under Nevada l aw and t he st at ut e . 1232, you
15 have t o be abl e t o ar t i cul at e, i n your r ul i ng i f you
16 deny t he mot i on, what i t was t hat l ed t he of f i cer
17 r easonabl y t o bel i eve t hat Mr . Coughl i n was ar med wi t h
18 a danger ous weapon and posed a t hr eat t o t he saf et y of
19 t he of f i cer or ot her s. I n t hi s case, al l t he of f i cer
20 can conf i r mi s t hat he woul dn' t answer quest i ons. He
21 was ar gument at i ve, made hi mf r ust r at ed and he had
22 baggi e shor t s on and t hat ' s i t . Those ar e t he onl y
23 f act s.
24 THE COURT: Wel l , f i r st of al l , I woul d
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1 i ndi cat e I bel i eve t her e wer e mor e f act or s. The f act
2 t hat a cr i me had been commi t t ed. The f act t hat t her e
3 was some cr owd of peopl e ar ound t hr eat eni ng hi m.
4 Wi t h t he t ot al i t y of t he ci r cumst ances,
5 f r ankl y, I ' mnot sur e whet her i t was r easonabl e t o do
6 a pat - down sear ch under t hose ci r cumst ances. I don' t
7 have any di r ect gui dance i n t er ms of f act s i n ot her
8 cases and si mi l ar f act s.
9 So what I ' mgoi ng t o do i s gr ant t he Mot i on
10 t o Suppr ess t he pat - down sear ch. However , I agr ee
11 wi t h Mr . Young t hat t her e was no sei zur e of anyt hi ng
12 as a r esul t of t he pat - down sear ch but t her e was, i n
13 f act , i ndependent r easons f or t he ar r est and f or t he
14 sear ch i nci dent t o t he ar r est , t her ef or e, I ' mnot
15 goi ng t o suppr ess t he sei zur e of t he phone.
16 I wi l l suppr ess t he t est i mony of t he of f i cer
17 t hat he f el t what he bel i eved t o be a phone. I wi l l
18 even suppr ess t he t ouchi ng of t he out si de of t he
19 pant s, t hat I bel i eve const i t ut es a sear ch under
20 Ter r y. So t he f eel i ng of t he vi br at i on, however , I do
21 bel i eve t her e was i ndependent r easons and pr obabl e
22 cause f or t he ar r est and speci f i cal l y, i dent i f i cat i on
23 by eyewi t nesses t hat Mr . Coughl i n t ook t he phone and
24 t hen t he of f i cer s i ndependent cor r obor at i on by cal l i ng
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1 t he number and hear i ng t he vi br at i on of t he phone.
2 Ther ef or e, I ' mgoi ng t o deny t he Mot i on t o
3 Suppr ess t he sei zur e of t he phone.
4 MR. YOUNG: J ust so I ' mcl ear , t he evi dence,
5 i f you wi l l , t hat i s bei ng suppr essed i s si mpl y t he
6 f eel i ng wi t h t he back of Of f i cer Dur al de' s hand - -
7 THE COURT: Feel i ng wi t h t he back of t he
8 hand - -
9 MR. YOUNG: And what he f el t dur i ng t he
10 pat - down sear ch?
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 MR. YOUNG: Not t he phone i t sel f , t hat ' s
13 st i l l admi ssi bl e.
14 THE COURT: The phone, as I under st and i t - -
15 I guess you' r e f r ee t o ar gue at t r i al but as I
16 under st and i t , t he phone was sei zed as a r esul t of a
17 sear ch i nci dent t o t he ar r est . The ar r est was based,
18 at l east at t hi s poi nt , I bel i eve on pr obabl e cause.
19 Pr obabl e cause bei ng t he wi t nesses, t he al l eged
20 vi ct i ms of t he cr i me t el l i ng t he of f i cer t hat t he
21 def endant had i n f act t aken t he phone and t he
22 i ndependent cor r obor at i on of t he of f i cer cal l i ng t he
23 phone and hear i ng i t vi br at e, t hat , t o me, const i t ut es
24 a pr obabl e cause f or t he ar r est and t he sear ch
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1 i nci dent .
2 So I ' mnot goi ng t o suppr ess t he phone at
3 t hi s t i me unl ess t he t r i al shows somet hi ng di f f er ent .
4 MR. YOUNG: Thank you, your Honor .
5 MR. LESLI E: I ' msor r y, my cl i ent was
6 whi sper i ng t o me and I di dn' t hear t he l ast sent ence
7 or so.
8 THE COURT: I sai d I ' mnot goi ng t o suppr ess
9 t he sei zur e of t he phone based upon t he t heor y t hat i t
10 was a sear ch i nci dent t o an ar r est and as a r esul t of
11 t hat , t he phone was sei zed and at l east at t hi s poi nt ,
12 I do f i nd t her e was pr obabl e cause f or t hat sear ch.
13 I sai d I wi l l not ul t i mat el y r ul e on t hat
14 because dur i ng t he cour se of t he t r i al , i t may come
15 out t hat t hat under st andi ng i s i ncor r ect but at t hi s
16 t i me, i t ' s my under st andi ng.
17 MR. YOUNG: Thank you, your Honor .
18 Wi t h t hat r ul i ng, t he St at e i s r eady t o
19 pr oceed t o t r i al .
20 THE COURT: Do you want t o cal l your f i r st
21 wi t ness?
22 MR. LESLI E: Coul d we t ake a f i ve- mi nut e
23 br eak f or r est r oomvi si t s any anyt hi ng el se we mi ght
24 need?
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1 THE COURT: Yes, absol ut el y.
2 MR. YOUNG: My onl y quest i on, your Honor ,
3 woul d be t hat si nce Of f i cer Dur al de who' s one of t he
4 St at e' s t hr ee wi t nesses t est i f i ed, t her e' s a f ew ot her
5 quest i ons I woul d have t hat went beyond t he scope of
6 t he Mot i on t o Suppr ess but he cer t ai nl y t est i f i ed t o
7 t he bul k of what hi s t est i mony woul d be at t r i al .
8 I woul d ask t hat al l of hi s t est i mony at t he
9 suppr essi on hear i ng - -
10 THE COURT: I t wi l l be i ncor por at ed.
11 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
12 THE COURT: And we' l l t ake f i ve mi nut es.
13 MR. LESLI E: Thank you.
14 THE COURT: You' r e wel come.
15 ( A r ecess was t aken. )
16 MR. YOUNG: We' l l cal l Mr . Zar at e, your
17 Honor .
18 THE COURT: I f you' l l come up her e, si r .
19 Ther e' s a l i t t l e door over her e.
20 Rai se your r i ght hand.
21 ( The wi t ness was swor n. )
22 THE COURT: You may be seat ed.
23
24
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1 NATHANI EL ZARATE
2 EXAMI NATI ON
3 BY MR. YOUNG:
4 Q Good afternoon, sir.
5 Could you state your first and last name and
6 spell your last for the record, please?
7 A Nat hani el Zar at e, Z A R A T E.
8 Q And sir, are you currently in school or
9 working?
10 A Yes. I wor k par t - t i me and I ' mst udyi ng
11 educat i on.
12 Q I'm going to direct your attention, sir, back
13 to August 20th of 2011, so just over a year ago from
14 today, shortly before midnight; were you -- did
15 something occur then which brings you here to court?
16 A Yes, si r .
17 Q Would you tell the judge what that was,
18 please?
19 A Woul d you l i ke t he whol e st or y?
20 Q Sure, yeah, just start from the beginning.
21 A Okay. So we wer e al l downt own as a gr oup of
22 f r i ends. My f r i end, Cor y, he l ent hi s phone - -
23 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I ' mgoi ng t o
24 i nt er pose an obj ect i on at t hi s poi nt . The comment
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1 t hat t he phone bel ongs t o a par t i cul ar per son, I
2 obj ect on l ack of f oundat i on.
3 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
4 Wel l , why don' t you st ar t by i dent i f yi ng who
5 was t her e because you sai d " we. " We don' t know who
6 t hat i s.
7 THE WI TNESS: I t was j ust a bi g gr oup of
8 f r i ends, and t hey wer en' t r eal l y a par t of i t . I
9 guess t he mai n peopl e woul d be me, mysel f and Cor y.
10 THE COURT: And what i s Cor y' s l ast name?
11 THE WI TNESS: Cor y Gobl e.
12 THE COURT: And t he t wo of you wer e downt own?
13 THE WI TNESS: Yes.
14 THE COURT: Go ahead.
15 BY MR. YOUNG:
16 Q Let me ask you this where specifically
17 downtown were you?
18 A We wer e at t he i ce skat i ng r i nk but si nce i t
19 was summer t i me, i t was j ust - - i naudi bl e. So t hat ' s
20 wher e we wer e. I t wasn' t - -
21 Q Is that the area right across from City Hall?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Is that here in Reno?
24 A Yes, r i ght next t o t he r i ver .
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1 Q Okay.
2 Washoe County, Nevada here?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And can you estimate people? You said you
5 were with a group and Cory; how many total people were
6 you with?
7 A I woul d say ar ound seven.
8 Q Okay.
9 And what were you -- you and everybody else,
10 what were you guys doing?
11 A We wer e j ust skat eboar di ng and mi ndi ng our
12 own busi ness and t al ki ng t o f r i ends and skat eboar di ng.
13 Q So what happened?
14 A Fr omt hen, I see one man. I don' t know who
15 t hi s man was. He was car r yi ng a si xpack of beer . He
16 wal ked up t o my f r i end' s hat , Cor y Gobl e' s hat . He
17 saw t hat and he waved i t ar ound and sai d, " Oh, i s t hi s
18 anybody' s, " because I assume t hat he was goi ng t o
19 cl ai mi t f or hi msel f .
20 Then we saw Cor y - - my f r i ends and I saw
21 Cor y, wear i ng t hat hat . So we sai d, " Oh yes, t hat ' s
22 Cor y' s hat . " Then he saw t he phone wi t h what - - we
23 got t he hat back and t hen we saw t he phone on t he
24 gr ound or he saw t he phone on t he gr ound, and he was
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1 doi ng t he same t hi ng wavi ng i t ar ound t o see i f anyone
2 was goi ng t o cl ai mi t .
3 Q Let me stop you right there.
4 Where was this hat and phone, when this man
5 picked them up?
6 A I t was on t he gr ound on one end of t he
7 skat eboar di ng par k.
8 Q Okay. Was Cory right there in the immediate
9 vicinity with those items?
10 A He was acr oss t he par k t al ki ng t o hi s f r i end
11 at t he t i me.
12 Q Okay.
13 Go ahead.
14 A Fr omt hen, I saw - - t hat ' s when Mr . Coughl i n
15 appr oached t he man wi t h t he phone. The man wi t h t he
16 si x- pack, he sai d, " Oh, i s t hi s anybody' s phone, " and
17 t hat ' s when t he per son who was t r yi ng t o t ake t he hat
18 and cl ai mt he hat - -
19 Q And just to be clear, do you see the first
20 man in the courtroom today?
21 A No. He' s not her e.
22 Q Okay.
23 Do you know who that guy is?
24 A No.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 Q Okay.
2 You were saying?
3 A Fr omt hen, I wi t nessed Mr . Coughl i n l ook at
4 t he phone and t hen si nce t he f i r st man gave t he hat
5 back t o us, I assumed he was aski ng i f i t was hi s
6 phone and t hen Mr . Coughl i n cl ai med i t was hi s phone.
7 I saw hi mt ake i t f r omhi mand t hen Mr . Coughl i n was
8 on hi s bi ke.
9 Then we wer en' t sur e whose phone i t was, at
10 t he t i me. So we cal l ed my ot her f r i end t o see i f i t
11 was hi s phone, but he answer ed hi s phone so we wer en' t
12 sur e whose phone i t was at f i r st . Then we - - si nce
13 t he phone was r i ght next t o Cor y' s hat , we went up and
14 asked Cor y i f t hat mi ght have been hi s phone and
15 t hat ' s when we st ar t ed t o put t wo and t wo t oget her .
16 Then Mr . Coughl i n st ar t ed t o l eave, and Cor y
17 Gobl e and anot her f r i end of our s, I can' t r ecal l who
18 i t i s, but t hey went over t o say, " Oh you must not - -
19 MR. LESLI E: Obj ect i on hear say.
20 BY MR. YOUNG:
21 Q Yeah. I'm going to stop you right there.
22 We'll get into that later.
23 You've mentioned the name, "Mr. Coughlin," a
24 few times and kind of pointed with your head; is Mr.
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1 Coughlin in the courtroom today?
2 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I ' msor r y, I don' t
3 mean t o i nt er r upt t he pr osecut or . Mr . Coughl i n keeps
4 whi sper i ng i n my ear and i t ' s har d t o concent r at e on
5 what ' s bei ng sai d. Can he j ust r epeat t he quest i on
6 I ' msor r y?
7 THE COURT: He sai d he i dent i f i ed Mr .
8 Coughl i n, or poi nt ed t o someone i n t he cour t r oomor
9 nodded t o hi mi n t he cour t r oomand i dent i f i ed Mr .
10 Coughl i n. Then he was goi ng t o ask a quest i on.
11 BY MR. YOUNG:
12 Q My question is simply do you see Mr. Coughlin
13 in the courtroom today?
14 MR. LESLI E: Hol d on, Mr . Coughl i n, pl ease.
15 BY MR. YOUNG:
16 Q Can you point Mr. Coughlin out and tell the
17 judge what he's wearing today?
18 A Mr . Coughl i n r i ght t her e i n t he bei ge sui t .
19 Q Okay.
20 Your Honor, if the record could reflect
21 identification?
22 THE COURT: I t wi l l and i f you need mi nut e t o
23 consul t wi t h Mr . Coughl i n?
24 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, your Honor .
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1 THE COURT: Go ahead, and Mr . Coughl i n, you
2 wer e t ol d ear l i er ei t her you or t hat you bel i eve t hat
3 your def ense at t or ney shoul d have a pad of paper t o
4 wr i t e on.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Oh, I ' msor r y, I di dn' t hear
6 t hat . I t hought he j ust gave me a pad of paper f or my
7 own not es was t hat .
8 THE COURT: No, i t was t he cour t ' s
9 under st andi ng t hat you wer e goi ng t o wr i t e down any
10 quest i ons or anyt hi ng par t i cul ar t hi ngs so t hat your
11 counsel can pay at t ent i on her e.
12 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' msor r y, i f t hat was sai d,
13 your Honor - -
14 THE COURT: When he' s goi ng t o conduct hi s
15 cr oss- exami nat i on, he can r ef er t o your not es and
16 t hat ' s t ypi cal l y t he way I ' ve done i t bef or e and t hen
17 he' l l be abl e t o pay at t ent i on her e and t hen when he' s
18 r eady t o cr oss- exami ne, he can l ook at your not es and
19 see i f t her e' s t hi ngs he agr ees wi t h t hat he shoul d
20 ask.
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r . And i f I may j ust
22 ask i f i t woul d be possi bl e - - somet i mes my hand has
23 some pr obl ems get t i ng t i r ed, i f I can t ype i t on t o my
24 scr een her e?
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1 THE COURT: I don' t car e i f you want t o t ype
2 i t , t hat ' s f i ne, but j ust don' t i nt er r upt your
3 counsel . Then you can show i t t o hi mat t he end and
4 he' l l have a chance t o r evi ew i t bef or e you ask
5 quest i ons.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r .
7 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
8 Mr . Young?
9 BY MR. YOUNG:
10 Q Thank you, your Honor.
11 Sir, where we left off is that you I believe
12 testified that Mr. Coughlin had a bike and began
13 leaving the area?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay.
16 Did Mr. Coughlin still have the phone?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Did you see where Mr. Coughlin put that
19 phone?
20 A I t was i n hi s f r ont l ef t pocket .
21 Q Okay.
22 Of his top or bottom clothing?
23 A Bot t omcl ot hi ng.
24 Q Do you recall what -- pants or shorts; do you
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 recall?
2 A I bel i eve i t was shor t s.
3 Q Okay.
4 And so whether it was you specifically or Mr.
5 Goble or the other friends, did somebody confront Mr.
6 Coughlin that he had a phone?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay, do you recall what Mr. Coughlin's
9 response or responses were to that?
10 A I was si t t i ng down acr oss t he par k. I
11 not i ced t hat t hey wer e t al ki ng, and I assumed t hat i t
12 was j ust about r et r i evi ng t he phone, but I never hear d
13 a di r ect conver sat i on.
14 Q Okay. Good enough.
15 Was there something that was done to check to
16 see whether Mr. Coughlin in fact had Mr. Goble's phone
17 that you observed?
18 A Yes, t her e was.
19 Af t er Mr . Coughl i n t r i ed t o l eave and al l of
20 my f r i ends went and t r i ed t o pr event hi mf r oml eavi ng,
21 I can' t r emember exact l y who cal l ed Mr . Gobl e' s phone
22 but i t was cal l ed - -
23 MR. LESLI E: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect f or l ack of
24 f oundat i on.
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1 THE COURT: I t hi nk I ' l l sust ai n t hat unl ess
2 you have per sonal knowl edge t hat hi s phone was cal l ed.
3 Di d you obser ve someone di al hi s number ?
4 THE WI TNESS: Yes, si r .
5 BY MR. YOUNG:
6 Q If I understand, you don't remember
7 specifically who but somebody; right?
8 A Yeah. I r ecal l somebody on t he phone di al i ng
9 Mr . Cor y' s phone.
10 MR. LESLI E: I ' l l st i l l obj ect f or l ack of
11 f oundat i on.
12 MR. YOUNG: I woul d submi t t her e' s no
13 f oundat i onal i ssue.
14 THE COURT: I wi l l over r ul e t hat obj ect i on.
15 I s t hat somet hi ng you per sonal l y obser ved?
16 THE WI TNESS: I per sonal l y obser ved, yes si r .
17 THE COURT: Okay, go ahead.
18 BY MR. YOUNG:
19 Q When Mr. Goble's phone was dialed and called,
20 what happened next?
21 A Mr . Coughl i n was r est i ng up agai nst t he
22 r ai l i ng of t he br i dge, and I not i ced i n hi s - - once
23 Mr . Gobl e' s phone was cal l ed, i t l i t up i n Mr .
24 Coughl i n' s f r ont l ef t pocket , i t was ni ght t i me so t he
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1 br i ght ness f r omt he scr een bei ng di al ed, i t was abl e
2 t o shi ne t hr ough hi s pant s. I saw i t l i ght up i n hi s
3 pant s.
4 At t hat poi nt , Mr . Coughl i n r eached i nt o hi s
5 pant s, hi s f r ont pant s pocket t he shor t s pocket s and
6 f l i pped t he phone over so we coul d no l onger see t he
7 br i ght ness f r omt he phone.
8 Q Okay.
9 Are you familiar, sir, with iPhones in
10 general?
11 A Yes. I have a l i t t l e under st andi ng of i t .
12 Q Okay. Do you own one?
13 A No but I own a si mi l ar br and.
14 Q But you are familiar with iPhones; you've
15 seen friends with them?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay.
18 Can you describe the screens of iPhones, in
19 other words?
20 A The scr een of an i Phone i s basi cal l y i t ' s
21 l i ke - - I woul d descr i be i t as l i ke a TV moni t or .
22 Ther e' s onl y one but t on, and t he r est i s j ust l i ke a
23 r ect angl e. The scr een i s most l y t he whol e ent i r e
24 phone. Ther e' s onl y one but t on and t he r est i s a
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1 t ouch scr een.
2 Q Are you aware whether the screens light up or
3 otherwise when they're dialed?
4 MR. LESLI E: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect , your Honor ,
5 l ack of f oundat i on.
6 MR. YOUNG: He' s al r eady t est i f i ed he' s
7 f ami l i ar wi t h t hem. Al l I ' maski ng i s he i s f ami l i ar .
8 I f he' s not , he can t el l us.
9 MR. LESLI E: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect on l ack of
10 f oundat i on and al so i mpr oper exper t t est i mony.
11 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
12 Wel l , I ' mgoi ng t o over r ul e t hat obj ect i on.
13 I agr ee wi t h Mr . Young t hat he' s aski ng i f he knows.
14 BY MR. YOUNG:
15 Q At this point, that's all I'm asking are you
16 familiar if an iPhone when it's called does light up?
17 A Yes, I ' mcer t ai n. I ' ve seen pl ent y of my
18 f r i ends havi ng t hose phones get t i ng cal l ed or havi ng
19 t ext messages or any t ype of i ncomi ng not i f i cat i on t o
20 t he phone, i t wi l l l i ght up.
21 Q All right.
22 Right before that, I believe your last
23 testimony was you observed Mr. Coughlin reach into his
24 pocket and flip the phone around?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q What do you mean by that?
3 A He f l i pped t he phone ar ound f aci ng hi s l eg so
4 we coul d no l onger see t he br i ght ness of t he phone.
5 Q And again, if you're familiar with iPhones,
6 are there screens on the back of iPhones?
7 A No, si r .
8 Q You're not familiar or there's not screens?
9 A Ther e ar e no scr eens on t he back of t he
10 phone.
11 Q Okay.
12 Did the police arrive soon thereafter?
13 A Yes, t hey di d.
14 Q And did you speak with the responding
15 officers?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Or at least an officer?
18 A Yes. I not i f i ed t hemt hat I saw what
19 happened.
20 Q Okay.
21 And did you specifically tell the responding
22 officer where you saw the phone in relation to Mr.
23 Coughlin's person?
24 A Yes.
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1 Q Okay.
2 Court's indulgence, your Honor. What was --
3 if you had first-hand knowledge, what was Mr.
4 Coughlin's demeanor like upon your interaction with
5 him? I use the word "interaction" loosely, when
6 you're around when the phone is being called; do you
7 recall?
8 A He was pr et t y adamant t hat he di d not have
9 t he phone and t hat t he phone was of l i t t l e or no val ue
10 t o hi mso he woul dn' t want i t . He was pr et t y much
11 j ust r esi st ant and i mpol i t e t o us and t hat ' s how I
12 woul d descr i be i t .
13 Q Did you actually hear him say that he didn't
14 have the phone?
15 A Yes. He deni ed i t sever al t i mes.
16 Q And I just want to make sure.
17 Earlier you said you were on the other side
18 and you kind of observed from a distance?
19 A Yes.
20 Q So at what point, did you then approach Mr.
21 Coughlin?
22 A Once he was conf r ont ed by Cor y Gobl e, he
23 t r i ed t o l eave and t hat ' s when a coupl e of my f r i ends
24 and I f ol l owed hi mover t o t he br i dge ar ea and t hat ' s
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 wher e we met hi m.
2 Q And that's where you saw the lighting up that
3 you testified to?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And was it at that point that you heard Mr.
6 Coughlin say that he didn't have the phone?
7 A Cor r ect .
8 Q I just want to make sure that you heard that
9 firsthand versus being told?
10 A Yes. I hear d t hat .
11 Q Okay.
12 At any time, did you see Mr. Coughlin give
13 anything, whether it's a phone or otherwise, to Mr.
14 Goble?
15 A No, si r .
16 Q Okay.
17 No further questions, your Honor. Thank you,
18 sir.
19 THE COURT: Mr . Lesl i e?
20 MR. LESLI E: I can' t r ead t hat .
21 CROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
22 BY MR. LESLI E:
23 Q Mr. Zarate, about how old are you?
24 A I ' m23.
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1 Q Now, you and Mr. Goble are friends?
2 A Yes, si r .
3 Q And were you friends back at the time of the
4 events that you just testified to?
5 A Yes, si r .
6 Q And at that time, how long had you and Mr.
7 Goble known each other?
8 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I need a br eak. Mr .
9 Coughl i n keeps i nt er r upt i ng me. He' s maki ng demands
10 on me. He' s di st r act i ng me. Thi s i s al most
11 unmanageabl e. I can' t even hear what ' s happeni ng i n
12 t hese pr oceedi ngs.
13 THE COURT: I need you - - as I sai d, you have
14 t he abi l i t y t o t ype.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , I ' ve t r i ed wi t h
16 Mr . Lesl i e. Ever yt hi ng I t r y, Mr . Lesl i e comes up
17 wi t h a f ant ast i cal l y cr eat i ve excuse f or why he can' t
18 use i t . " I can' t i t ' s t oo smal l . You bl ew i t up i t ' s
19 t oo bi g. Oh, i t ' s i n dar k pr i nt , I l i ke l i ght pr i nt . "
20 THE COURT: Si r , I ' mnot goi ng t o ar gue wi t h
21 you. You have a chance t o cr eat e a r ecor d at t hi s
22 poi nt and anyt hi ng t hat you l eave, Mr . Lesl i e shoul d
23 ask. I ' l l even al l ow you t o somehow e- mai l your not es
24 t o t he cour t so t hey can be i ncor por at ed i nt o t he
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1 r ecor d i f you f eel - -
2 MR. COUGHLI N: What addr ess shoul d I send
3 t hat t o, your Honor ?
4 THE COURT: You can e- mai l i t t o me. You
5 have my addr ess.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , i s i t your f i r st
7 i ni t i al and t hen your l ast name or i s i t vi ce ver sa?
8 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t hi s i s not a t r i al
9 i ssue. I woul d ask t hat we move on and addr ess t hi s
10 l at er .
11 THE COURT: I t ' s P and t hen my l ast name at
12 Washoe Count y. us.
13 MR. COUGHLI N: And i f I coul d j ust ent er i nt o
14 t he r ecor d - -
15 THE COURT: No. You' r e not goi ng t o ent er
16 anyt hi ng i nt o t he r ecor d her e because I ' mnot goi ng t o
17 have Mr . Lesl i e i nt er r upt ed anymor e because he needs
18 t o def end you.
19 Now, cer t ai nl y I ' ve gi ven you an oppor t uni t y
20 t o ask t he quest i ons you asked me t o ask but you can
21 t ype i t on t hat scr een, show i t t o hi mand t hen i f he
22 doesn' t ask t hem, you can j ust e- mai l t hemt o me. I
23 wi l l t ype t hemout and put t hemi n t he r ecor d; al l
24 r i ght ?
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1 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r .
2 THE COURT: And t hat way, t hey' l l be
3 pr eser ved; al l r i ght ?
4 MR. LESLI E: So, your Honor , amI t he
5 at t or ney f or t he def ense or i s he - -
6 THE COURT: Absol ut el y, you ar e t he at t or ney.
7 MR. LESLI E: I t sounds l i ke he' s co- counsel
8 maki ng a r ecor d of what shoul d or shoul d not be asked,
9 i t ' s ver y conf usi ng. He' s t hr eat eni ng me r i ght now.
10 I ' mmaki ng a r ecor d of t hi s. He' s maki ng t hr eat s t o
11 me r i ght now.
12 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mnot t hr eat eni ng Mr .
13 Lesl i e.
14 THE COURT: Okay. I ' ve t ol d you r epeat edl y,
15 Mr . Coughl i n, I amgoi ng t o hol d you i n cont empt of
16 cour t . You have an at t or ney. He i s r epr esent i ng you.
17 I wi l l t el l Mr . Lesl i e, you ar e hi s at t or ney. You
18 have f ul l di scr et i on t o r epr esent hi m, as you see f i t .
19 Obvi ousl y he has some concer ns about t hi ngs t hat he
20 says you' r e not aski ng. Rat her t han have hi m
21 i nt er r upt you and i nt er r upt t he cour t i n t he
22 pr oceedi ngs, I ' msi mpl y i ndi cat i ng t hat you can
23 document what ever i t i s t hat you want ed hi mt o ask.
24 You' r e not aski ng t o be second guessed or anyt hi ng
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1 el se but at l east t her e wi l l be some evi dence of what
2 he may or may not cl ai ml at er on.
3 I ' mnot sayi ng t hat i t ' s even l egi t i mat el y
4 admi ssi bl e, i t won' t be par t of t hi s r ecor d, i t wi l l
5 j ust be a r ecor d of what he i s aski ng you t o ask i f he
6 chal l enges l at er on hi s Si xt h Amendment Ri ght .
7 MR. LESLI E: So how di d I cr oss- exami ne a
8 wi t ness when Mr . Coughl i n i s sendi ng e- mai l s t o you
9 about what I shoul d be aski ng?
10 THE COURT: I ' mnot goi ng t o open t he
11 e- mai l s. I ' msayi ng t hi s i s an e- mai l t hat he can
12 send t o me at t he end. I ' mnot aski ng hi mt o send me
13 r epeat ed e- mai l s.
14 MR. YOUNG: And I woul d speci f i cal l y r equest
15 t hat he be or der ed not t o cont act your Honor by e- mai l
16 or ot her wi se i n t he mi ddl e of t hi s t r i al .
17 MR. COUGHLI N: I t ' s l aw of t he case, I ' ve
18 al r eady sent some.
19 MR. YOUNG: Then I woul d ask, your Honor ,
20 t hat you not consi der t hem.
21 THE COURT: I ' mnot goi ng t o consi der t hem
22 or l ook at t hem. The onl y t hi ng I ' mt r yi ng t o do i s
23 f i gur e out some way t o have hi mnot i nt er r upt Mr .
24 Lesl i e and at t he same t i me, be abl e t o pr eser ve
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1 what ever i t i s t hat he i s sayi ng t hat he' s aski ng Mr .
2 Lesl i e.
3 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , i t ' s conf usi ng t o me t hat
4 you' r e sayi ng t hat he' s pr eser vi ng what I shoul d or
5 shoul d not be aski ng and how I shoul d or shoul d not be
6 def endi ng hi m, i f I ' mnot goi ng t o see t hese e- mai l s
7 unt i l af t er we' r e done wi t h t hese pr oceedi ngs.
8 THE COURT: No. I t ol d you t hat he needs t o
9 show - - I ' mnot aski ng you t o cr eat e t hese as we go,
10 Mr . Coughl i n. I ' maski ng you j ust t o e- mai l me
11 what ever i t i s you' ve shown t o your counsel whi ch you
12 wer e supposed t o have al r eady done. I t hought t her e
13 was somet hi ng t hat was i l l egi bl e. I don' t know what
14 t hat was but - -
15 MR. LESLI E: He t r i ed t o show me a document
16 t hat had about ei ght or t en pages shr unk on t o one
17 page.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Ther e' s f our pages on one per
19 page t hen I bl ew i t up on PDF on t he scr een.
20 THE COURT: I ' mt r yi ng t o be as f ai r t o you
21 as I possi bl y can, but what I ' msuggest i ng i s i f you
22 have quest i ons, by quest i ons I mean l i ke a sent ence, a
23 one- sent ence quest i on or a t wo- sent ence quest i on or
24 t hat ki nd of t hi ng, t hen t ype i t out .
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1 Bef or e t hi s wi t ness i s r el eased, you' l l have
2 an oppor t uni t y t o show t hose t o Mr . Lesl i e. Mr .
3 Lesl i e can r ead t hr ough t hemat hi s di scr et i on. He
4 can ask hi mor not and t hen you can e- mai l me t hose
5 quest i ons af t er Mr . Lesl i e has had a chance t o l ook at
6 t hem.
7 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , how amI supposed t o
8 def end hi mwhen you put t hose ki nd of const r ai nt s on
9 my wor k?
10 THE COURT: I wasn' t t r yi ng t o put any
11 const r ai nt s on your wor k.
12 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , i f I may, I j ust want
13 t o be cl ear . I f Mr . Coughl i n chooses t o e- mai l you
14 af t er t he concl usi on of t hi s case, t her e' s no way I
15 can st op hi mf r omdoi ng t hat - -
16 THE COURT: Ther e i s a way, he has t o send
17 copi es.
18 MR. YOUNG: I j ust want t o make sur e, your
19 Honor , t hat he knows t hat he' s not t o be sendi ng you
20 e- mai l s dur i ng t he pendency of t hi s t r i al .
21 THE COURT: I ' mnot l ooki ng at any e- mai l s.
22 MR. YOUNG: I under st and you' r e not , but he
23 may do i t .
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Mr . Young, he al r eady r ul ed on
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1 t hat .
2 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I ' maddr essi ng you.
3 I want t o make sur e t hat you or der hi mnot t o e- mai l
4 dur i ng t he pendency of t hi s t r i al because f r omwhat
5 he' s sayi ng, he' s goi ng t o r epeat edl y do t hat and
6 t hat ' s i mpr oper f or a r epr esent ed def endant t o be
7 cont act i ng t he j udge i n t he mi ddl e of a t r i al , t hat ' s
8 al l I ' maski ng f or .
9 THE COURT: Okay.
10 Let me make i t ver y cl ear , you ar e t o
11 pr eser ve your quest i ons and e- mai l me af t er t he t r i al .
12 MR. COUGHLI N: I under st and you' r e sayi ng
13 t hat now, your Honor . Ear l i er I hear d - -
14 THE COURT: I under st ood i t wasn' t cl ear
15 bef or e so - - but i f you haven' t shown i t t o Mr .
16 Lesl i e, t hen don' t e- mai l i t t o me. Mr . Lesl i e, do
17 you have a pr obl emwi t h t hat ?
18 MR. YOUNG: I do have a pr obl em, your Honor .
19 I t hi nk t hat - - you know I t hi nk Mr . Coughl i n
20 e- mai l i ng t he cour t or e- mai l i ng me i n t he mi dst of
21 t r i al - -
22 THE COURT: No, not i n t he mi dst of t r i al .
23 I ' msayi ng at t he end of t he t r i al . I amaski ng t hat
24 he show i t t o you dur i ng t he t r i al but not whi l e
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1 you' r e aski ng t he quest i ons. I mean, you can pause at
2 t he end of your cr oss- exami nat i on and he can show you
3 hi s quest i ons. I f t her e' s any t hat you wi sh t o ask,
4 you can do so.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , Mr . Lesl i e j ust
6 t est i f i ed t hat he hasn' t seen anyt hi ng t oday, t hat
7 i mpl i es he hasn' t l ooked at anyt hi ng I ' ve shown hi m.
8 MR. YOUNG: Let ' s move on, pl ease.
9 THE COURT: I f you speak agai n unl ess asked
10 by t he cour t , I wi l l hol d you i n cont empt of cour t .
11 You have an at t or ney. I ' mgi vi ng you t he oppor t uni t y
12 t o communi cat e wi t h hi mand not t o i nt er r upt hi mwhi l e
13 he' s r epr esent i ng you aski ng quest i ons. When he' s not
14 aski ng quest i ons, j ust show hi mwhat ever you want t o.
15 Gi ve hi ma mi nut e or t wo t o r ead and i t , t hen we wi l l
16 pr oceed, al l r i ght ?
17 I n t he meant i me, you t ype i t on your l apt op
18 and pr eser ve i t t o e- mai l me at t he end of t he t r i al
19 and t hen CC your at t or ney. Al l r i ght . I t hi nk i t ' s
20 pr obabl y at t or ney- cl i ent conf i dent i al . So I ' mnot
21 goi ng t o CC Mr . Young unl ess i t becomes an i ssue
22 l at er , al l r i ght .
23 Now, l et ' s pr oceed.
24 BY MR. LESLI E:
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1 Q Mr. Zarate, if I understood your testimony,
2 you indicated that somebody other than Mr. Coughlin
3 originally picked up the hat that you believed
4 belonged to Mr. Goble?
5 A Yes, si r .
6 Q And if I understood you correctly, you
7 indicated that somebody other than Mr. Coughlin
8 originally picked up the phone that you believed was
9 Mr. Goble's?
10 A Yes, si r .
11 Q And that other person that first picked up
12 the iPhone of Mr. Goble's, do you know who that person
13 is?
14 A No, I do not , si r .
15 Q Have you seen that person since that night?
16 A No, si r .
17 Q And it's been about a year or so?
18 A Yes, si r .
19 Q Okay.
20 What did the person who grabbed the iPhone
21 initially, not Mr. Coughlin but the other fellow, what
22 did he do with the iPhone that you saw?
23 A He was wai vi ng t he phone ar ound and aski ng i f
24 i t was anybody' s and i f no one cl ai med i t , t hen I
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1 assume he woul d j ust t ake i t f or hi msel f .
2 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I woul d j ust obj ect
3 t o t hat l ast par t about t he assumpt i on.
4 MR. LESLI E: I have no obj ect i on t o t hat .
5 THE COURT: I t ' s sust ai ned.
6 BY MR. LESLI E:
7 Q So the other guy picked up the iPhone and
8 said, "Does it belong to anybody," or words to that
9 effect?
10 A Yes, si r .
11 Q Did that guy also say something to the effect
12 of he was going to throw it in the river or anything
13 like that?
14 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I obj ect on t he
15 gr ounds t hat i t ' s hear say.
16 THE COURT: On t he gr ounds of what ?
17 MR. YOUNG: Hear say.
18 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , your Honor - -
19 THE COURT: I don' t t hi nk i t ' s of f er ed f or
20 t he t r ut h of t he mat t er . So I ' mgoi ng t o over r ul e t he
21 obj ect i on.
22 BY MR. LESLI E:
23 Q So did he say anything along those lines?
24 A I di d not hear hi msay t hat .
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1 Q Okay.
2 And then what did the guy who picked up the
3 phone initially, what did he do with the phone?
4 A He handed i t over t o Mr . Gobl e.
5 Q Okay.
6 And how far away were you from those two men,
7 when you saw that happen?
8 A I was no mor e t han 30 f eet away.
9 Q Now, did you hear anything that the two men
10 were saying to each other?
11 A No. They wer e t oo f ar away.
12 Q So what you did hear was the first guy pick
13 up the phone and say, "Does this belong to anybody,"
14 or words to that effect, right?
15 A Cor r ect .
16 Q But then when Mr. Coughlin approached the
17 first guy and they had whatever encounter they had,
18 you did not hear what they said to each other?
19 A No, si r .
20 Q Okay.
21 And at that point in time, you weren't sure
22 if it was even Mr. Goble's phone because you didn't
23 know which phone it was in question?
24 A Cor r ect .
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1 Q So when I ask you these questions saying the
2 guy who first picked up Mr. Goble's phone, back at
3 that time you didn't realize whose phone it was?
4 A Cor r ect .
5 Q Was there more than one phone there at the
6 location where that phone was originally?
7 In other words, were a bunch of people
8 skating and maybe left their phones and hats and other
9 effects there?
10 A No, si r . I onl y r ecal l seei ng t he hat and
11 t he phone.
12 Q Okay.
13 Now, I took in my notes the phrase, "We tried
14 to prevent him from leaving." So you and Mr. Goble
15 and some others tried to stop Mr. Coughlin from
16 leaving?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay.
19 Now, from the time you guys first tried to
20 stop him from leaving until the time the police
21 arrived, how much time went by do you think?
22 A I woul d say pr obabl y 15 mi nut es.
23 Q Okay.
24 So for 15 minutes, you and several other men
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1 your age were trying to prevent Mr. Coughlin from
2 leaving?
3 A Yes, si r .
4 Q Okay.
5 How did you do that?
6 A We j ust enci r cl ed hi mand he - - Mr . Coughl i n,
7 l i ke I j ust sai d ear l i er , he was j ust aggr essi ve, mor e
8 or l ess si t t i ng on t he bar r i er bet ween t he br i dge and
9 t he si dewal k, I mean t he st r eet and t he si dewal k over
10 t he br i dge. So mor e or l ess t he guar dr ai l si t t i ng
11 bet ween t he si dewal k and t he st r eet .
12 Q And so the group of you young men basically
13 kept him there for about 15 minutes?
14 A Yes, af t er we saw t he phone l i ght up, yes.
15 Q And you wouldn't let him leave; is that fair?
16 You need to answer out loud?
17 A Yes, si r .
18 Q Okay.
19 Did he appear to try to leave, from what you
20 saw?
21 A Not af t er we enci r cl ed hi m.
22 Q Prior to that though?
23 A Yes.
24 Q So as far as you can tell, he was trying to
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1 leave and then you guys encircled him and then he
2 couldn't leave?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay.
5 How many of you were there?
6 A I woul d I guess ar ound seven.
7 Q Were there any females?
8 A Yes.
9 Q About how many?
10 A Two.
11 Q So by your estimation, there were seven males
12 including yourself and two females or seven total
13 including two females?
14 A Seven t ot al .
15 Q So nine people?
16 A No, seven peopl e, t wo f emal es and t hen maybe
17 f i ve or si x mal es.
18 Q Okay.
19 And did several of you guys have skateboards?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Now, who were the original -- were you one of
22 the original of that group that approached him and
23 tried to stop him from leaving?
24 A No, I was not .
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1 Q Who was that, to your knowledge?
2 A Fr omwhat I r emember , i t was Cor y and anot her
3 of my f r i ends t hat I ' mnot ent i r el y sur e who t hat was.
4 Q You don't know the name?
5 A I don' t know.
6 Q Okay.
7 A I know t her e wer e t wo peopl e, Cor y and
8 someone el se i ni t i al l y.
9 Q Of the seven people or so that encircled him,
10 who were those, including yourself?
11 A Who wer e t he peopl e t hat enci r cl ed hi m?
12 Q Yes, sir.
13 A I t was mysel f , my f r i end Col t on, Aust i n,
14 Tanner .
15 Q Can you give full names?
16 A Yeah. Col t on Templ et on, Tanner Chan.
17 THE COURT: Wai t one second Col t on Templ et on,
18 Tanner Chan C H A N?
19 THE WI TNESS: Yes.
20 And Aust i n Li cht y, L I C H T Y, I bel i eve.
21 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
22 THE WI TNESS: And Rober t Dodson. I bel i eve
23 t hat t hose wer e t he mal es. Then t he ot her t wo f emal es
24 wer e Lucy B Y I N G T O N and t hen Ni col e Wat son.
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1 THE COURT: And Ni col e i s N I C O L E?
2 THE WI TNESS: Cor r ect .
3 THE COURT: Wat son, WA T S O N?
4 THE WI TNESS: Cor r ect , si r .
5 THE COURT: And your sel f ?
6 THE WI TNESS: Yes. And t hen Cor y was t her e
7 as wel l , Cor y Gobl e.
8 BY MR. LESLI E:
9 Q I think the only follow-up I have to that
10 list is you said Chan but I didn't catch -- I've got
11 Coughlin, Templeton; is that the name?
12 A No, Col t on Templ et on.
13 THE COURT: And Tanner Chan.
14 BY MR. LESLI E:
15 Q So Colton Templeton and what's the full name
16 for Chan?
17 A Tanner Chan.
18 Q Okay.
19 And then Austin Lichty and Robert Dodson,
20 Lucy Byington, Nicole Watson and Cory Goble?
21 A Yes, si r .
22 Q So that's -- and then yourself?
23 A Yes, si r .
24 Q And that's the group of people that ended up
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 surrounding him and keeping him from leaving?
2 A Yes, si r .
3 Q Did Mr. Coughlin behave in a way that
4 appeared like he felt threatened?
5 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor , r el evance.
6 THE COURT: Obj ect i on what ?
7 MR. YOUNG: Rel evance. I ' mnot sur e how
8 t hat ' s r el evant t o pr ove any f act and consequence of
9 t he t wo char ges.
10 THE COURT: Okay, what ' s t he r el evance?
11 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , your Honor , I t hi nk t hat
12 we' l l devel op evi dence i n t hi s case t hat he was i n
13 f ear of physi cal at t ack or i n f ear of t he aggr essi on
14 or t he appar ent aggr essi on of t he gr oup and t hat t hat
15 may or may not i ndi cat e a r eason f or t he phone, i f i t
16 was i n hi s possessi on was not t ur ned over t o Mr .
17 Gobl e.
18 THE COURT: Okay. I wi l l al l ow t he quest i on.
19 BY MR. LESLI E:
20 Q Did he do or say anything that indicated he
21 felt threatened or intimidated?
22 A I woul dn' t say so, no. We wer e j ust ar gui ng
23 back and f or t h. Mr . Coughl i n i ndi cat ed t hat he had no
24 use f or a phone l i ke t hat , mor e or l ess act i ng as i f
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1 i t wasn' t t hat bi g of a deal about t he si t uat i on i n
2 gener al .
3 Q Did he appear to use a phone or his phone,
4 during this whole encounter, to call anybody or to try
5 to call 911?
6 A No, si r .
7 Q And you did not hear him say throughout this
8 encounter, you did not hear him say anything to the
9 effect of, "I feel threatened," or I'm being
10 threatened?"
11 A No.
12 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t hat woul d be i n
13 addi t i on t o my r el evance ar gument , hear say.
14 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , t her e' s al r eady been
15 t est i mony wi t h r egar d t o al l eged st at ement s made by
16 Mr . Coughl i n. I t hi nk under t he Rul e of Compl et eness,
17 t hat i t woul d be appr opr i at e t o have an answer t o t hi s
18 quest i on and t hen I ' l l move on t o my next subj ect .
19 THE COURT: I ' l l al l ow t he quest i on.
20 BY MR. LESLI E:
21 Q And so did he say anything to the effect that
22 he felt threatened or that he was being threatened?
23 A The onl y conver sat i on I r ecal l i s j ust t he
24 back and f or t h about t he phone and t hat i t was i n hi s
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1 possessi on, Mr . Coughl i n' s possessi on and t hat i t was
2 cl ear l y i n Mr . Coughl i n' s possessi on. I per sonal l y
3 don' t r ecal l - -
4 Q Now, you recall people saying that he had
5 possession of it but that's what they were saying;
6 correct?
7 A Cor r ect .
8 Q Okay.
9 I'm just checking my notes, your Honor, and I
10 was checking the notes that Mr. Coughlin had written
11 out.
12 So when the police arrived on scene, you and
13 the other group of young men and women were -- had
14 basically detained Mr. Coughlin and were encircling
15 him there at the area of that guardrail or the rail
16 that you indicated?
17 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor I woul d obj ect j ust t o
18 t he ext ent of t he use of t he wor d " det ai ned" , i t ' s a
19 l egal t er m.
20 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , I can r ephr ase i t .
21 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
22 BY MR. LESLI E:
23 Q When the police arrived, you and the rest of
24 the group had him encircled and were preventing him
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1 from leaving?
2 A Yes, si r .
3 Q Court's indulgence.
4 Just a couple of questions, Mr. Zarate.
5 You filled out a written statement in this
6 case?
7 A Yes, si r .
8 Q Did you have occasion to review that written
9 statement, before you testified here today?
10 A Yes, si r .
11 Q When did you review it?
12 A Ear l y t hi s mor ni ng.
13 Q And it's a one-page handwritten statement?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And were you asked by the police officers to
16 complete that statement as an apparent witness to what
17 might have happened that night?
18 A Yes, si r .
19 Q Okay.
20 And would it be fair to say that in that
21 handwritten statement, you don't indicate anything
22 about the other fellow who first grabbed the iPhone
23 and asked whose it was?
24 A I bel i eve I wr ot e t hat one man pi cked up t he
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1 phone and t hen t he ot her man, I ' msor r y, I di dn' t know
2 hi s name at t he t i me and I sai d t he ot her man cl ai med
3 i t .
4 Q All right.
5 So when you wrote one man picked up the phone
6 and the man with the bike took it from him and started
7 to try to leave, the first part of that, the one man
8 that picked up the phone was the first guy that you
9 talked about today?
10 A Yes, si r .
11 Q Okay.
12 And then the second man was Mr. Coughlin?
13 A Yes, si r .
14 Q Okay.
15 Did you tell the police verbally, before you
16 filled out the statement, only that Mr. Coughlin had
17 taken the phone?
18 In other words, did you leave out -- for
19 whatever reason, did you leave out the first man
20 having picked up the phone?
21 A I r ecal l not i f yi ng one of t he pol i ce of f i cer s
22 t hat I had wi t nessed ever yt hi ng t hat happened, and
23 t hen t he of f i cer pul l ed me asi de and asked me t o f i l l
24 out t he r epor t . I never r eal l y di scussed what
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1 happened wi t h t he of f i cer .
2 Q So you did not tell -- before you filled out
3 the written statement, you didn't tell the officers
4 that you saw the first man pick up the phone?
5 A I do not r ecal l . I mer el y i ndi cat ed t hat I
6 saw what happened and I f i l l ed out t he pol i ce r epor t .
7 Q And when you say that you indicated you saw
8 what happened, I mean is that literally what you said,
9 "I saw what happened?"
10 A Or wor ds t o t hat ef f ect .
11 Q Okay.
12 So you're not saying that you gave a verbal
13 description to them of all the details that we've
14 talked about here today?
15 A Cor r ect .
16 Q And so you simply said originally verbally to
17 the cop or cops, "I saw what happened," and then
18 later, you filled out the written statement we talked
19 about and then the next thing basically was you
20 testifying here?
21 A To t he best of my memor y, yes.
22 Q All right.
23 Did you tell one of the police officers that
24 you saw Mr. Coughlin take Mr. Goble's phone from where
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1 Goble had set it down?
2 A I do not r ecal l di scussi ng anyt hi ng t hat
3 happened wi t h any pol i ce of f i cer .
4 Q Okay.
5 I have no further questions.
6 THE COURT: Wel l , I do have one quest i on,
7 si r , because i t ' s somewhat conf usi ng t o me.
8 I t hi nk when you i ni t i al l y t est i f i ed, you
9 sai d t hi s t hi r d par t y pi cked up t he phone and t he hat
10 wi t h t he phone i n i t and asked i f i t bel onged t o
11 anyone and t hen t he phone f el l out . Then you went and
12 cl ai med t he hat or somebody went and cl ai med t he hat ?
13 THE WI TNESS: Yes, si r .
14 THE COURT: But you di dn' t cl ai mt he phone at
15 t hat t i me?
16 THE WI TNESS: No.
17 THE COURT: And he hel d up t he phone and
18 sai d, " Does t hi s bel ong t o anyone, " and you di dn' t
19 cl ai mi t nor anyone i ni t i al l y, r i ght ?
20 THE WI TNESS: I ni t i al l y, no.
21 THE COURT: And t hen you saw t hat t hi r d par t y
22 t al k t o t he def endant ?
23 THE WI TNESS: Yes, si r .
24 THE COURT: And t hen you saw t he def endant
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1 t ake t he phone f r omt he t hi r d par t y?
2 THE WI TNESS: Yes, si r .
3 THE COURT: And at t hat poi nt i n t i me, was
4 t her e anyt hi ng t o pr event t he def endant f r omr i di ng
5 away on hi s bi ke? He wasn' t enci r cl ed or anyt hi ng
6 el se, was he?
7 THE WI TNESS: No, si r . I r ecal l hi ml ooki ng
8 at t he phone on t op of hi s bi ke. Then at t hat t i me,
9 we st ar t ed t o pi ece t oget her t hat i t mi ght have been
10 Cor y' s phone.
11 Then I bel i eve Mr . Coughl i n t r i ed t o l eave at
12 t hat poi nt and t hen Mr . Gobl e and anot her f r i end of
13 mi ne went up and conf r ont ed hi mt her e.
14 THE COURT: So i t was al most i nst ant aneousl y?
15 THE WI TNESS: Yes.
16 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you, t hat ' s what
17 wasn' t cl ear t o me.
18 Al l r i ght , Mr . Young?
19 REDI RECT EXAMI NATI ON
20 BY MR. YOUNG:
21 Q Just a follow up on that because I think your
22 question was different from the one I heard earlier.
23 Was the phone -- when this third this more
24 man picked up the hat to start out with, was that
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1 separate from what he picked up the phone or was he
2 waiving both of them at the same time?
3 A I di d not see t he exact or i ent at i on of t he
4 phone t o t he hat but I knew t hat t hey wer e t oget her .
5 Q Okay.
6 Then I was writing down all the names you
7 listed. You advised there were eight people in total
8 when you listed everybody out. Did you go hands on
9 with Mr. Coughlin, at any time on this evening?
10 A No. I di d not .
11 Q And did you see any of the other seven people
12 that you testified to ever go hands on with Mr.
13 Coughlin?
14 A No, si r .
15 Q That's all, your Honor.
16 MR. LESLI E: Cour t ' s i ndul gence.
17 RECROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
18 BY MR. LESLI E:
19 Q During the time that you saw Mr. Coughlin, I
20 mean -- let me shoot that question in the back of the
21 head and start over.
22 From the time you first saw Mr. Coughlin
23 until the time the police arrived, did you or any of
24 the other people that you were with touch him?
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1 A I di d not see anyone I know physi cal l y put a
2 hand on hi m.
3 Q Or reach into his pockets?
4 A Wel l , one of my f r i ends was ki nd of maki ng a
5 j oke r eachi ng t owar ds one of hi s pocket s and i t was
6 Aust i n Li cht y. He had - - Aust i n had hi s headphones i n
7 hi s hand and I bel i eve t her e was some - - j ust a
8 conf usi on maybe Mr . Coughl i n t hought t hose wer e hi s
9 headphones so t hat ' s when he l ashed out and sai d, " No,
10 t hose ar e mi ne. " Then he r eal i zed t hat t hose wer en' t
11 act ual l y hi s. Then Aust i n backed of f and he never
12 t ouched hi mso.
13 Q So I want to make sure I understand.
14 Austin reached for some headphones, were
15 those headphones in the possession of Mr. Coughlin?
16 A No, si r .
17 Q They were just nearby?
18 A I bel i eve t hat t hey wer e i n hi s hands.
19 Q Whose hands?
20 A Aust i n Li cht y' s hands. He was pr et endi ng t o
21 r each j ust maki ng a j oke r eachi ng up, and he never
22 act ual l y t ouched hi m, t hat ' s what I saw.
23 MR. LESLI E: Hol d on, l et me t r y t o t hi nk.
24 THE COURT: I t hought we cl ar i f i ed t hi s t hat
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1 you wer e goi ng t o ask t hi s i n wr i t i ng.
2 THE WI TNESS: I ' msor r y, your Honor .
3 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , go ahead.
4 BY MR. LESLI E:
5 Q So if I understand correctly, what was this
6 kid's name?
7 A Aust i n Li cht y.
8 Q Okay.
9 Austin had headphones in his hands?
10 A I bel i eve so, yes.
11 Q And while he was holding the headphones, he
12 made a gesture, in your words, a joking way of trying
13 to reach into Mr. Coughlin's pockets?
14 A Yes, si r .
15 Q Did Austin actually come into physical
16 contact with Mr. Coughlin or Mr. Coughlin's clothing?
17 A Not t hat I saw.
18 Q How close did Austin's hand come to Mr.
19 Coughlin, when Austin did this?
20 A I woul d guess maybe t hr ee i nches.
21 Q How many times did Austin do that?
22 A I onl y r ecal l one t i me because af t er t he
23 f i r st t i me or af t er t hat t i me, Mr . Coughl i n l ashed out
24 at hi m, at Aust i n, t hen t hat ' s when ever yone was
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1 sayi ng, " Oh no, you can' t t ouch hi m, he' s a mi nor and
2 t hat ' s pr et t y much - -
3 Q But Mr. Coughlin appeared to lash out, as you
4 say, towards Austin because Austin had first made this
5 physical gesture towards Mr. Coughlin?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay.
8 And from the looks of it, you thought that
9 Austin was trying or jokingly trying to reach into Mr.
10 Coughlin's pocket?
11 A He was pr et endi ng as i f he was goi ng t o.
12 Q Okay. And that's clear in your mind?
13 A That i s ver y cl ear i n my mi nd, yes.
14 Q Okay. Thank you, your Honor.
15 MR. YOUNG: No f ur t her quest i ons. I ' l l get
16 my next wi t ness.
17 MR. LESLI E: That ' s f i ne.
18 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
19 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , as f ar as Mr . Zar at e,
20 t he St at e has no obj ect i on t o r el easi ng hi m.
21 THE COURT: Does t he def ense have any
22 obj ect i on t o t he St at e r el easi ng - -
23 MR. LESLI E: You know, your Honor , gi ven t he
24 nat ur e of t hese pr oceedi ngs t hus f ar , I ' d be hesi t ant
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1 t o r el ease hi mbut I don' t know t hat he needs t o
2 r emai n f or t oday i f we' r e endi ng at 4: 30 as you
3 i ndi cat ed.
4 THE COURT: I don' t know i f I sai d 4: 30, but
5 I ' mwi l l i ng t o go beyond 4: 30.
6 MR. YOUNG: I woul d ask t hat Mr . Coughl i n
7 t ur n t he scr een ar ound. He' s poi nt i ng i t di r ect l y at
8 you and pl ayi ng t he vi deo.
9 THE COURT: Tur n t he scr een ar ound.
10 Mr . Zar at e, you' r e f r ee t o go t oday. I f we
11 end up cont i nui ng t hese pr oceedi ngs and you ar e a
12 necessar y wi t ness, we wi l l cal l you back, al l r i ght ?
13 THE WI TNESS: Al l r i ght . Thank you, si r .
14 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
15 THE COURT: And I wi l l go unt i l - - we' l l go
16 unt i l quar t er t o 2: 00.
17 Woul d you pl ease r ai se your r i ght hand.
18 ( The wi t ness was swor n. )
19 THE WI TNESS: Yes, your Honor , I do.
20 THE COURT: Pl ease be seat ed.
21 COREY GOBLE
22 EXAMI NATI ON
23 BY MR. YOUNG:
24 Q Good afternoon, sir.
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1 Could you state your first and last name and
2 spell your last for the record?
3 A Cor y Gobl e, G O B L E.
4 THE COURT: I s Cor y C O R Y?
5 THE WI TNESS: Yes, si r .
6 THE COURT: I s Gobl e, G O B E L?
7 THE WI TNESS: G O B L E.
8 BY MR. YOUNG:
9 Q Sir, are you currently in school?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay, for what?
12 A TMCC t o get my Associ at e of Sci ence.
13 Q Okay.
14 I'm going to direct your attention, sir, to
15 roughly a year ago, August 20th of 2011 in the night
16 hours; were you in the downtown area on that night?
17 A Yes, si r .
18 Q Okay.
19 Do you know the specific address of that
20 place?
21 A I t ' s 1st and Vi r gi ni a, t he Pl aza downt own.
22 Q Okay.
23 That's here in Reno, Washoe County, Nevada?
24 A Yes, si r .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 Q And what were you doing?
2 A Hangi ng out wi t h some f r i ends act ual l y
3 skat eboar di ng.
4 Q And while you were skateboarding, did you
5 have personal property with you?
6 A Yeah. I had a hat , cel l phone and my wal l et
7 on me.
8 Q Okay.
9 And what did you do with those items while
10 you were skateboarding?
11 A Obvi ousl y, I di dn' t want t he phone t o get
12 damaged whi l e I was skat eboar di ng because you do
13 obvi ousl y f al l a l ot , i t happens whi l e you' r e
14 skat eboar di ng. So I t ook my hat of f and I set my cel l
15 phone i nsi de of my hat and set i t on t he l edge, i t was
16 st i l l i n vi ewabl e di st ance.
17 Q Sir, I don't want you to give me specifically
18 what was said but did one of your friends advise you
19 that your cell phone had been taken?
20 A I t wasn' t a f r i end but I was advi sed by a
21 byst ander I guess you woul d say. He was our age.
22 Q Okay.
23 Could you describe your phone, going back to
24 that date in question?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 A Yeah. I had no case on i t at t he t i me, i t
2 was an i Phone 3 j ust basi c bl ack, no case on i t , t hat
3 was about i t .
4 Q Okay.
5 All right. Do you recall when you purchased
6 that phone and for how much?
7 A I t was l i ke def i ni t el y year s ago.
8 Q Okay.
9 A And I got i t back when i t was f i r st r el eased.
10 I got i t at Chr i st mas, i t had t o be at l east t wo year s
11 ol d. My br ot her act ual l y pur chased i t f or a Chr i st mas
12 pr esent f or me, i t was l i ke $250 or $300 at t he t i me.
13 Obvi ousl y, i t ' s not wor t h t hat now.
14 Q And that's my question. Going back to
15 August 11th, the value of that phone was that under
16 $250?
17 A The day i t was st ol en?
18 Q Right.
19 A I woul d say new - -
20 Q I'm not saying new, I'm saying your specific
21 phone?
22 A Oh my speci f i c phone i s i t wor t h t hat much?
23 Q Right.
24 A I woul d say, yes, I guess i t was st i l l i n new
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1 condi t i on.
2 Q In other words, if you were to go on eBay and
3 otherwise?
4 A Oh t hen I guess, no.
5 Q I mean --
6 A I mean, you coul d f i nd t he same model and
7 ever yt hi ng as of t hat dat e on Cr ai g' s Li st or eBay f or
8 $80 t o $100 dol l ar s.
9 Q Okay.
10 This person -- and again, without getting
11 into too much detail what this person said, advised
12 you that someone had taken off with your phone?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Did you approach the person who you were told
15 had taken your phone?
16 A No.
17 Q Okay.
18 A Wel l , as I appr oached my phone wher e I was
19 si t t i ng, he was si t t i ng r i ght t her e and j ust advi sed
20 me. I sai d, " Wher e' s my phone. " And he sai d, " That
21 was your phone?" I sai d " Yeah, " and he sai d, " That
22 guy on t he bi ke - -
23 MR. LESLI E: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect , hear say.
24 MR. YOUNG: I ' mj ust of f er i ng - - I ' mnot
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 of f er i ng i t f or t he t r ut h of t he mat t er .
2 THE COURT: I ' mgoi ng t o over r ul e t he
3 obj ect i on. I naudi bl e.
4 BY MR. YOUNG:
5
Q So after you were advised someone on a bike
6
had it?
7 A Yes.
8
Q Did you go up to or confront that person on
9
the bike?
10 A Yes, I di d.
11
Q Okay.
12
Do you see that person in the courtroom
13
today?
14 A Yes, si r .
15
Q Could you describe what he's wearing?
16 A A br own bl azer and a pat t er ned t i e and a
17 whi t e col l ar ed shi r t .
18
Q You Honor, if the record could reflect
19
identification of the defendant?
20 THE COURT: The r ecor d wi l l so r ef l ect .
21 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
22 BY MR. YOUNG:
23
Q Now, that you identified Mr. Coughlin, what
24
did you say to him?
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1 A I sai d - - t he f i r st t hi ng I sai d was, " Hey,
2 di d you t ake my phone, " or " Hey, someone j ust sai d
3 t hat you gr abbed my phone. "
4 Q Okay.
5 Do you recall Mr. Coughlin's response?
6 A Yes.
7 Q What was that?
8 A " No. I don' t have your phone. "
9 Q Okay.
10 So what did you do at that point?
11 A I sai d, " Look, I ' mpr et t y sur e you have i t .
12 My f r i end j ust t ol d me you have i t . " I ki nd of
13 i mmedi at el y st ar t ed t o get f r ust r at ed. He j ust t ol d
14 me, " No. I have a cel l phone, " and pul l ed out a
15 di f f er ent cel l phone t hat wasn' t mi ne, i t was hi s.
16 He seemed ki nd of anxi ous. He was l i ke " No, I don' t
17 have your cel l phone, " l i ke he want ed t o l eave.
18 I was l i ke wai t , " Thi s guy j ust sai d you have
19 my phone. " A coupl e of my f r i ends ki nd of saw me
20 wal ki ng because he was on hi s bi ke and I was l i ke
21 wal ki ng next t o hi mt r yi ng t o get hi mt o gi ve me my
22 phone, t hen a coupl e of my f r i ends ki nd of came over .
23 Q And you just testified that when you said he
24 was trying to get away, "he" being who?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 A Mr . Coughl i n.
2 Q Okay.
3 Were you able -- did you do anything to check
4 to see whether Mr. Coughlin in fact had your phone?
5 A Yes, we di d.
6 Q Who was that?
7 A My i mmedi at e f i r st t hought was I asked my
8 f r i end I sai d, " Hey, cal l i t r eal qui ck because maybe
9 we' l l hear i t or see i t i n hi s pocket . " My f r i end
10 t hen cal l ed my phone number and i mmedi at el y, we saw i t
11 l i ght up i n hi s pant s pocket . At t hat poi nt , i t was
12 compl et el y obvi ousl y t hat he had my phone.
13 Q Okay.
14 At any time, did Mr. Coughlin give you the
15 phone back?
16 A No, si r , he di d not .
17 Q Did you continue to ask Mr. Coughlin for the
18 phone back?
19 A Yes, si r .
20 Q And other than denying having it, do you
21 recall anything else Mr. Coughlin said?
22 A I r emember hi msayi ng, " Wel l , l i ke even i f i t
23 was your s, why woul d you want i t because you know,
24 i t ' s a pi ece of cr ap. I t ' s l i ke t he f i r st model , why
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 woul d you want i t , " t hat ki nd of t hi ng, i t was ki nd of
2 r i di cul ous.
3 Q Are you aware of whether you or anyone else
4 called 911?
5 A I bel i eve I cal l ed 911. Yeah. I wasn' t sur e
6 i f I cal l ed t he pol i ce depar t ment . I ' mpr et t y sur e I
7 cal l ed 911.
8 Q Did you have your phone back at this point?
9 A No, I used a f r i end' s phone t o di al .
10 Q Okay.
11 Did the police ultimately arrive?
12 A They di d.
13 Q Okay.
14 And ultimately, did you get, from the police,
15 your phone back?
16 A Yes, si r .
17 Q And who was it that handed you your phone?
18 A I bel i eve i t was t he - - I ' mnot sur e of t he
19 of f i cer ' s name. I can' t r ecal l .
20 Q That's okay.
21 My question was was it an officer?
22 A I t was an of f i cer t hat gave me my phone back.
23 Q Okay, it wasn't Mr. Coughlin?
24 A No, si r .
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1 Q I'm going to -- these have been previously
2 marked and discovered to defense, your Honor.
3 Showing you what's been marked for
4 identification as A and B. And you said you remember
5 when those were taken?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Could you tell us what is identified in A and
8 B?
9 A My phone.
10 Q Okay.
11 And that's what the officer gave back to you?
12 A Yes, si r .
13 Q How do you know that's your phone?
14 A Basi cal l y, some of t he scr at ches i t has on i t
15 and t hen I guess t he Wi Fi addr ess i s t he Wi Fi of my
16 home t hat I use.
17 Q Okay.
18 A And obvi ousl y t he l i t t l e dead pi xl es i n t he
19 cor ner t hat was pr et t y di st i ngui shi ng about my phone.
20 Q Any doubt in your mind that that's your
21 phone, sir?
22 A Any doubt ? Ther e' s no doubt i n my mi nd t hat
23 t hat ' s my phone.
24 Q That's fine, that's your phone?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 A Yeah, t hat ' s my phone.
2 Q And that's what you received from the
3 officer?
4 A Yes, si r .
5 Q Your Honor, I would move for A and B at this
6 time into evidence.
7 THE COURT: Any obj ect i on?
8 MR. LESLI E: No obj ect i on.
9 THE COURT: Somet hi ng I mi sunder st ood you
10 sai d t he pi xl es.
11 THE WI TNESS: Look i n t he l ower l ef t cor ner
12 of t he scr een, i f you l ook i n t he l ower l ef t , i t j ust
13 has some dead pi xl es on t he scr een of t he phone.
14 BY MR. YOUNG:
15 Q Sir, when you or -- I didn't mean to cut you
16 off, judge, if you have more questions?
17 THE COURT: No. I don' t have any mor e
18 quest i ons.
19 BY MR. YOUNG:
20 Q When somebody, whether it was you or somebody
21 else dialed your phone number, you testified that it
22 lit up?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And I believe your testimony was in Mr.
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1 Coughlin's pocket?
2 A Yes, si r .
3 Q When you say pocket, do you recall --
4 A I can' t di st i ngui sh r i ght or l ef t , but I know
5 f or sur e i t was one of t he f r ont pocket s.
6 Q As to his pants or shirt?
7 A Pant s.
8 Q All right.
9 And do you recall whether he was wearing long
10 pants, shorts?
11 A Def i ni t el y l ong pant s, i t was def i ni t el y
12 pant s, not shor t s.
13 Q Okay.
14 And just to be clear, you received the phone
15 back from the officer?
16 A Yes, si r .
17 Q At any time, did Mr. Coughlin offer to give
18 you back the phone?
19 A No, si r .
20 Q And you mentioned that he held up a different
21 phone?
22 A Yes. He hel d up hi s phone sayi ng, " I have a
23 cel l phone but i t ' s not your s. "
24 Q And that's different than the one that the
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1 dial let up which was yours?
2 A Yes, si r .
3 Q Okay.
4 I have no further questions.
5 THE COURT: I have a quest i on.
6 You sai d he was r i di ng a bi ke t r yi ng t o get
7 away f r omyou. Wer e you on f oot ?
8 THE WI TNESS: Yeah. I was on f oot . I
9 bel i eve I st ood i n f r ont of hi mso he coul dn' t r i de
10 away and he act ual l y had a dog wi t h hi mas wel l t oo.
11 I don' t r emember i f t he dog was t i ed t o t he handl ebar s
12 or what .
13 THE COURT: Bef or e you wer e i n f r ont of hi m,
14 you sai d t hat he was r i di ng away?
15 THE WI TNESS: Yeah.
16 THE COURT: So how di d you cat ch hi m?
17 THE WI TNESS: Wel l , he wasn' t r i di ng f ul l
18 speed. He was j ust sl owl y r i di ng away. I had my
19 skat eboar d at t he t i me. I j ust j umped on my
20 skat eboar d and cr ui sed over t o hi mr eal qui ck.
21 THE COURT: So he wasn' t t r yi ng t o - -
22 THE WI TNESS: He wasn' t t r yi ng t o spr i nt of f ,
23 no, i t was mor e l i ke a casual r i de of f .
24 THE COURT: Go ahead.
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1 CROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
2 BY MR. LESLI E:
3 Q How much time took place between the time
4 that you first gave pursuit shall we say to Mr.
5 Coughlin and the time that the police arrived?
6 A I woul d say anywher e pr obabl y about - - I
7 woul d say t he pol i ce wer e t her e wi t hi n f i ve t o
8 10 mi nut es.
9 Q Okay.
10 A I t di dn' t t ake t hemver y l ong.
11 Q Your Honor, I don't know if you see this but
12 Mr. Coughlin is playing videos and making
13 gesticulations which are extremely distracting to me.
14 He's launching his arm out. He's playing videos.
15 He's turning his laptop one way and then the other. I
16 just need him to stop. I just need him to stop so I
17 can concentrate.
18 THE COURT: I ' mgoi ng t o t el l you, si r , t hat
19 I al l owed you t o have your l apt op f or pur poses of t hi s
20 pr oceedi ng i n or der f or you t o t ype, t o pose quest i ons
21 f or your counsel , not t o pl ay vi deo games or anyt hi ng
22 el se.
23 I ' mgoi ng t o i nst r uct t he bai l i f f who' s
24 behi nd you i f he sees you doi ng t hat , t o t ake you i nt o
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1 cust ody. You t ur n t he t hi ng t o me bef or e and i t was
2 not not i ced when I saw i t .
3 You may say somet hi ng; what i s i t you wi sh t o
4 say?
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , i t ' s not vi deo
6 games, i t ' s a vi deo t aken of t he scene whi ch i mpeaches
7 what t hese wi t nesses have been sayi ng. I ' ve been
8 t r yi ng t o get Mr . - -
9 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , i t ' s not i n evi dence.
10 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
11 You wi l l , si r , do as I t ol d you bef or e whi ch
12 i s you l et your counsel ask t he quest i ons. When he' s
13 done, you can show hi mwhenever i t i s you want but
14 you' r e not t o i nt er r upt hi mf or many r easons. One,
15 i t ' s di sr upt i ve t o t he cour t and i t ' s al so di sr upt i ve
16 t o your def ense. I f your counsel f eel s pr essur ed by
17 you or i f you' r e di st r i ct i ng hi mor i nt er r upt i ng hi m,
18 he' s not abl e t o conduct t he pr oper def ense f or you.
19 So t hi s wi l l be absol ut el y t he l ast t i me, okay?
20 MR. COUGHLI N: I under st and, si r .
21 THE COURT: That ' s i t .
22 Al l r i ght . Go ahead.
23 BY MR. LESLI E:
24 Q I was only to take a few notes because of Mr.
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1 Coughlin's behavior but I'll do the best I can.
2 So originally, what drew your attention to
3 the issue of your iPhone possibly being taken by
4 someone other than yourself was somebody told you,
5 "Hey, I think some guy took your phone?"
6 A Wel l , basi cal l y. I want ed t o check on i t . I
7 j ust want ed t o check and see i f I had any mi ssed cal l s
8 or anyt hi ng. So I went over t o t he l edge I put i t on
9 and my hat was st i l l t her e, t he hat t hat I had set i t
10 i n and t hat ' s when I was l ooki ng f or i t , and I sai d
11 j ust ki nd of out l oud I sai d, " Wher e' s my phone?"
12 That r andombyst ander , t hat ki d t hat was ki nd
13 of cl ose t o my age, he sai d, " That was your phone?"
14 And t hat was when he t ol d me t hat t he guy on t he bi ke
15 had i t and t hat ' s when I j ust skat ed of f af t er hi m.
16 Q Was that bystander who told you about that
17 was he one of the group --
18 A No, he wasn' t i n a gr oup of f r i ends of our s.
19 He was j ust some r andomguy si t t i ng t her e.
20 Q Was he one of the guys about your age that
21 ended up in encircling Mr. Coughlin later?
22 A Yes, si r .
23 Q But you didn't know that kid?
24 A No, si r .
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1 Q And I say kid and he may have been over 18.
2 A I don' t know. He j ust l ooked ar ound our age.
3 Q Okay.
4 A I woul d assume anywher e f r om16 t o 25.
5 Q And how old were you that night?
6 A 23.
7 Q And the age range of the group was probably
8 anywhere from late teens to your age?
9 A Yes, si r .
10 Q Okay.
11 Did you make any calls to 911, during this
12 whole evening and encounter?
13 A I bel i eve t he one cal l I di d make was t o 911
14 on my f r i end' s phone and t hat was j ust r egar di ng
15 ever yt hi ng t hat was happeni ng.
16 Q Now, was that at the beginning or at the end?
17 A I want t o say i t was r i ght af t er we saw i t
18 l i ght up i n hi s pocket r i ght af t er we cal l ed t he
19 phone. I t ' s when I got f r ust r at ed and I had my f r i end
20 cal l on hi s phone, t hat ' s when I saw i t l i ght up. At
21 t hat poi nt , I sai d I can' t do t hi s. I ' mj ust goi ng t o
22 cal l t he pol i ce.
23 THE COURT: And I ' msor r y, I got di st r act ed
24 what coul dn' t you do?
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1 THE WI TNESS: I ' msor r y, say t hat agai n.
2 THE COURT: You sai d, " I can' t do t hi s. "
3 THE WI TNESS: Oh, I j ust coul dn' t deal wi t h
4 t he si t uat i on t r yi ng t o get t he phone back.
5 Obvi ousl y, i t wasn' t goi ng anywher e. I t j ust wasn' t
6 pr ogr essi ng anywher e. Obvi ousl y, I wasn' t goi ng t o
7 get my phone back. So I j ust cal l ed t he pol i ce,
8 t hat ' s t he f i r st t hi ng I t hought of . I j ust coul dn' t
9 handl e t he si t uat i on was al l .
10 BY MR. LESLI E:
11 Q Would it be fair to say that in the five or
12 10 minutes from the beginning of this until the police
13 arrived, that you originally gave chase and by the end
14 of that five or 10 minutes when the police arrived,
15 there was as many as seven or so individuals including
16 yourself that were surrounding Mr. Coughlin and
17 keeping him from leaving?
18 A Yeah, somet hi ng ar ound t her e.
19 Q And you guys were keeping him from leaving?
20 A Yeah. I r emember t he one ki d t oo, act ual l y,
21 I don' t know what we want t o cal l t hi s guy but t he guy
22 who had advi sed me who t ook i t , he ki nd of got al l
23 heat ed up and he came over and he was t he one who
24 act ual l y l i ke - - he pr obabl y got a l i t t l e physi cal
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1 wi t h Mr . Coughl i n. He l i ke hel d on t o hi s bi ke
2 handl ebar s so he coul dn' t r i de away.
3 Q So physically restrained Mr. Coughlin from
4 using his transportation?
5 A Yes, si r .
6 Q Would it be fair to say that you and the
7 others confronted Mr. Coughlin, accused him of taking
8 your cell phone and when he denied taking it, refused
9 to let him leave?
10 A Yes, si r .
11 Q Okay.
12 Did he behave in any way or say anything that
13 indicated to you that he felt threatened by you guys
14 that you were being effective in getting your point
15 across and keeping him from leaving?
16 A I t hi nk he f el t a l i t t l e t hr eat ened, yes.
17 Q Okay.
18 And from the time that you originally were
19 told, "Hey, I think somebody's taking your phone," or
20 words to that effect until the time you caught up with
21 him on your skateboard, about how much time went by?
22 A Bet ween - - when, what was t he begi nni ng t i me?
23 Q When you were first alerted that somebody
24 might have taken your phone until the time you caught
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1 up to him?
2 A Ten seconds, maybe.
3 Q So for all but about that 10 seconds of that
4 time between the starting and when the police showed
5 up, you were right there at arm's length and
6 confronting him the way we've talked about?
7 A Yeah. I ver bal l y conf r ont ed hi mat t hat
8 poi nt , yes.
9 Q And the rest of the group was very quick
10 after you and ended up grouping themselves with you --
11 A Yeah, j ust t r yi ng t o keep hi mt her e unt i l t he
12 pol i ce got t her e basi cal l y because he was t r yi ng t o
13 r i de of f .
14 Q So he never had really a chance to get away
15 basically?
16 A Not r eal l y, no, si r .
17 Q Okay.
18 A And yeah - -
19 Q You guys got him?
20 A I mean, yeah. We hel d hi munt i l t he pol i ce
21 got t her e and wer e successf ul , yes, si r .
22 Q And were you a witness to -- I don't want to
23 put words in your mouth so listen carefully. We may
24 have heard that somebody besides Mr. Coughlin
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1 originally might have picked up that phone; were you a
2 witness to that or is that only something you would
3 have heard about after the fact?
4 A No, si r . I never hear d any of t hat unt i l
5 j ust now.
6 Q Okay.
7 And that night you and Mr. Coughlin did not
8 know each other, that's the first time you met?
9 A Yes, si r .
10 Q So he did not know who you were or what your
11 name was?
12 A No, si r , not t o my knowl edge.
13 Q And would it be fair to say that he would
14 have no reason to know whether you in fact were the
15 owner of the phone; that's a fair statement?
16 A Yeah, t hat ' s a f ai r st at ement .
17 Q Okay.
18 Court's indulgence. I do have a follow-up
19 question. I do have a follow-up question.
20 A Yes, si r .
21 Q Were you present at any subsequent date when
22 Mr. Coughlin encountered you or others that were there
23 that night and asked you questions about what had
24 happened?
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1 A I have hear d - -
2 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect
3 t o t hat on r el evance. I hear d a subsequent ni ght
4 whi ch has no bear i ng on t he f act s and consequence, i t
5 al so const i t ut es i nadmi ssi bl e hear say.
6 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , your Honor , i f I may be
7 hear d on an of f er of pr oof , I ' mgi ven t o bel i eve t hat
8 t her e was some ki nd of subsequent cont act wher e Mr .
9 Coughl i n may have had oppor t uni t y t o ask quest i ons of
10 some of t hese peopl e, and t her e was an i ndi vi dual who
11 appear ed t o appr oach Mr . Coughl i n swi ngi ng a
12 skat eboar d and act i ng - - i f I may make my of f er of
13 pr oof ?
14 THE COURT: You may, but t hi s wi t ness I t hi nk
15 - - go ahead and r eask t he quest i on because I t hi nk
16 t hi s wi t ness - -
17 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I st i l l have my
18 obj ect i on.
19 MR. LESLI E: Shal l I make t he of f er of pr oof
20 by expl ai ni ng i t or by aski ng t he quest i on?
21 THE COURT: No, by aski ng t he quest i on.
22 MR. YOUNG: I ' l l r enew my obj ect i on.
23 MR. LESLI E: And I agr ee t hat t he t est i mony
24 woul d be subj ect t o a r ul i ng. I t hi nk r i ght now we' r e
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1 t r yi ng t o det er mi ne whet her t her e' s r el evant and
2 pr of er abl e evi dence.
3 THE COURT: I naudi bl e.
4 MR. LESLI E: I di dn' t hear t he answer .
5 THE COURT: Go ahead and ask t he quest i on.
6 BY MR. LESLI E:
7 Q The question is did you ever have occasion to
8 act in an aggressive manner or swing a skateboard at
9 Mr. Coughlin?
10 A No, si r .
11 Q Did you witness that happening?
12 A No, si r but I have hear d.
13 Q Well, if you didn't witness it and you've
14 only heard, then there's some legal constraints.
15 A Sur e.
16 Q Your Honor, I'm going to withdraw my question
17 at this point based on the answer.
18 MR. YOUNG: I ' mgoi ng t o ask t hat t hat be
19 st r i cken based on hear say.
20 THE COURT: I naudi bl e.
21 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
22 THE COURT: Mr . Lesl i e?
23 MR. LESLI E: I don' t have any f ur t her
24 quest i ons.
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1 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
2 Wel l - -
3 MR. YOUNG: I j ust have one.
4 THE COURT: Oh, I ' msor r y.
5 REDI RECT EXAMI NATI ON
6 BY MR. YOUNG:
7 Q The night in question that we've been talking
8 about --
9 A August 20t h?
10 Q Yeah, the night of the -- where you called
11 the police and with the phone?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Did you go hands-on and physically contact
14 Mr. Coughlin?
15 A No, si r .
16 Q You testified that one of the individuals
17 there grabbed on to Mr. Coughlin's handlebars to
18 prevent him from leaving?
19 A Yes, si r .
20 Q Did he or anybody else physically touch Mr.
21 Coughlin?
22 A No, si r , not t hat I r ecal l .
23 Q That you recall?
24 A No, si r .
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1 Q That's all, your Honor.
2 THE COURT: I do have one quest i on.
3 Di d you ever t el l t he def endant t hat i f he
4 gave you t he phone, he was f r ee t o go?
5 THE WI TNESS: We di dn' t , t he pol i ce of f i cer
6 t ol d hi mt hat .
7 THE COURT: That ' s t r ue, I t hought i t was
8 you.
9 THE WI TNESS: No, si r .
10 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
11 MR. YOUNG: I have no f ur t her quest i ons.
12 THE COURT: Anyt hi ng el se i n l i ght of my
13 quest i ons?
14 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , your Honor , I woul d j ust
15 f or t he r ecor d obj ect because i t i s a hear say
16 r esponse. The of f i cer t est i f i ed t hat he sai d t hat
17 t hat ' s one t hi ng but i f t hi s wi t ness t est i f i es t hat he
18 hear d i t - -
19 THE COURT: I wi l l st r i ke t he answer as
20 nonr esponsi ve t o t he quest i on and you ar e f r ee t o go.
21 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, your Honor .
22 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t he l ast t hi ng I j ust
23 want t o cl ar i f y i s I know we had t he Suppr essi on
24 Hear i ng and now t he l ast t wo wi t nesses wer e f or t he
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1 t r i al . I know you al r eady - - we al r eady di scussed
2 t hi s but I j ust want t o make i t cl ear t o see i f
3 t her e' s any obj ect i on t hat t he t est i mony of Of f i cer
4 Dur al de at t he Suppr essi on Hear i ng i s i ncor por at ed
5 her e i n f ul l so t hat al l t hat evi dence i s par t of t he
6 St at e' s case i n chi ef f or your Honor t o consi der .
7 THE COURT: That ' s cor r ect .
8 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , t he onl y obj ect i on I have
9 - - wel l , I ' mgoi ng t o back up. I ' mgoi ng t o l odge an
10 obj ect i on - -
11 THE COURT: I j ust want t o ask one quest i on.
12 I t ' s st i l l your i nt ent t o cal l hi mt o ask
13 addi t i onal quest i ons, i sn' t i t ?
14 MR. YOUNG: I don' t know.
15 THE COURT: Oh, you don' t know. Okay. Then
16 go ahead.
17 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , I don' t r emember i n gr eat
18 det ai l ever yt hi ng t hat t r anspi r ed wi t h t he of f i cer ' s
19 t est i mony ear l i er t oday, but I woul d not e t hat - - I ' m
20 j ust t hi nki ng, your Honor . Gi ve me a second because I
21 know t hat - -
22 THE COURT: You don' t have t o make a deci si on
23 t oday. I f you wi sh hi mr ecal l ed f or t he t r i al , I
24 woul d cer t ai nl y gi ve you t he oppor t uni t y f or t hat
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1 pur pose. I t hought Mr . Young had i ndi cat ed ear l i er
2 t hat you want ed t o i ncor por at e hi s t est i mony and you
3 may have some addi t i onal quest i ons beyond t hat , but he
4 want s - -
5 MR. LESLI E: I woul d j ust st and on any
6 obj ect i ons made on t he ear l i er t est i mony.
7 THE COURT: Wel l , t hose wer e cl ear l y
8 expr essed.
9 MR. YOUNG: I bet t er cal l hi mt hen j ust t o
10 make sur e we' r e al l cl ear and f or pur poses of t he
11 r ecor d, t hen I can j ust cal l hi m.
12 THE COURT: I have no pr obl emwi t h j ust
13 havi ng hi s t r anscr i pt pr epar ed.
14 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , f or pur poses of t he r ecor d,
15 your Honor , I ' l l cal l Of f i cer Dur al de.
16 MR. LESLI E: I don' t want t o dr aw an
17 obj ect i on f r omMr . Coughl i n but I ' mgoi ng t o go ahead
18 and j ust not agr ee t o st i pul at e t o i ncor por at i ng t hat
19 t est i mony f or pur poses of evi dence at t r i al .
20 MR. YOUNG: That ' s f i ne, I ' l l cal l Of f i cer
21 Dur al de.
22 THE COURT: The pr obl emi s we' r e not goi ng t o
23 be cont i nui ng t oday. We' l l have t o pi ck a dat e.
24 I apol ogi ze, of f i cer , but we' l l have t o
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1 cont i nue t hi s mat t er and i t i s agr eed t hat you wi l l
2 need t o t est i f y. So can we l ook f or a dat e, any dat e
3 - -
4 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , and I cer t ai nl y don' t
5 want t o t hr ow wr ench i nt o t he cour t ' s schedul i ng. I
6 know t hat somet i mes t he cour t mi ght set f or Fr i day
7 mor ni ngs, speci al set s; i s t he cour t avai l abl e t hi s
8 Fr i day?
9 THE COURT: I woul dn' t be avai l abl e t hi s
10 Fr i day but next Fr i day, t he f ol l owi ng Fr i day I ' mher e.
11 MR. YOUNG: You' r e not avai l abl e t hi s Fr i day?
12 THE COURT: No, I ' mnot avai l abl e t hi s Fr i day
13 but t he f ol l owi ng Fr i day - -
14 MR. YOUNG: And I don' t car e, I woul d j ust
15 pr ef er a dat e soon and not 30 days out . I ' d l i ke t o
16 wr ap t hi s up sooner r at her t han l at er .
17 THE COURT: Most days I amact i ng as t he
18 pl ea j udge and any one of t hose days I can do i t .
19 Ther e j ust has t o be f i ve j udges her e because someone
20 el se has t o do t he pl eas. Ther e' s al ways j ust - -
21 t her e' s al ways a pl ea j udge and I cover t he pl eas i f
22 t her e' s f i ve j udges f or t he pl ea j udge. So t he pl ea
23 j udge can al ways do t hei r own pl eas.
24 MR. YOUNG: And I ' l l def er t o cour t and
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1 counsel as t o what day, j ust soon.
2 THE COURT: Do we have any day next week?
3 THE CLERK: Any day next week.
4 THE COURT: Any day next week i s avai l abl e.
5 MR. YOUNG: And t he of f i cer i s i ndi cat i ng
6 Mondays and Tuesdays ar e best f or hi mi f t hat
7 accommodat es t he cour t and counsel .
8 MR. LESLI E: I t hi nk Monday i s a hol i day.
9 THE COURT: Monday i s a hol i day.
10 MR. LESLI E: The onl y concer n I have wi t h
11 Tuesdays i s I have Depar t ment I V, and I don' t have
12 addi t i onal cover age r i ght now. You' r e not avai l abl e
13 Wednesday?
14 THE COURT: The ot her opt i on i s t o go t he
15 next week af t er .
16 MR. LESLI E: Di d I j ust hear t he of f i cer say
17 he' s avai l abl e next Wednesday? What about next
18 Wednesday. We coul d st ar t i n t he mor ni ng i f you wi sh?
19 THE COURT: We can st ar t - - does t hat wor k
20 f or ever ybody?
21 MR. YOUNG: I di dn' t hear t he dat e?
22 THE CLERK: Sept ember 5t h at 9: 00.
23 THE COURT: And Mr . Coughl i n, you don' t have
24 anyt hi ng wi t h t he St at e Bar or anyt hi ng?
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1 MR. COUGHLI N: No, si r .
2 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' mnot bei ng sar cast i c. I
3 j ust want t o accommodat e you.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: No, si r , I don' t .
5 THE COURT: So we wi l l cont i nue t hi s unt i l
6 Sept ember 5t h at 9: 00, and t he whol e day i s avai l abl e
7 i f we need i t .
8 MR. YOUNG: Thank you, your Honor .
9 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, j udge.
10 THE COURT: And however many wi t nesses you
11 have, you have so.
12 MR. LESLI E: And, your Honor , t he def ense
13 had, as my under st andi ng when Mr . Bosl er appear ed, I
14 was advi sed t hat at t hat t i me some sor t of hear i ng was
15 hel d and def ense wi t nesses wer e hel d t o t hei r
16 subpoenas. We had subpoenaed a coupl e of wi t nesses
17 who di d not appear t oday.
18 THE COURT: Ther e was a woman i n her e ear l i er
19 t oday. I don' t know i f she was a wi t ness her e t hat
20 was subpoenaed but t her e was a - - I do have a - -
21 MR. LESLI E: Al l I ' mseeki ng i s i f I can
22 r epr esent t o t hose wi t nesses t hat t hey ar e hel d t o
23 t hei r subpoena f or next Wednesday at 9: 00 A. M?
24 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , and i f t hey' r e not
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 172
1 her e, we can get a bench war r ant .
2 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, your Honor .
3 THE COURT: Let me t el l you - - I ' mt r yi ng t o
4 f i nd t he wi t ness st at ement . Wel l , act ual l y what I
5 sai d may not be t r ue. You sai d t hey wer e her e, i t was
6 t he 17t h I bel i eve. I t hi nk at t hat t i me, we
7 cont i nued i t t o t he 29t h. I ' mt r yi ng t o f i nd t he
8 docket sheet .
9 Anyhow, t he of f i cer i s f r ee t o go. You know
10 what dat e you have t o be her e, r i ght ?
11 THE WI TNESS: Yes, si r .
12 THE COURT: Okay. You' r e f r ee t o go.
13 Ther e' s no sense i n you st ayi ng ar ound.
14 MR. LESLI E: Al l I need, your Honor , i s f or
15 your aut hor i zat i on f or me t o t el l my - -
16 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' mgoi ng t o aut hor i ze you
17 t o t el l t hemt hey' r e hel d t o t hei r subpoenas but t he
18 pr obl emi s I can' t swear t hey wer e subpoenaed.
19 MR. LESLI E: That ' s f i ne.
20 THE COURT: Yes. Ever yone who was pr evi ousl y
21 subpoenaed was advi sed i n cour t t hat day t hat t hey
22 needed t o come back and Mr . Bosl er was her e.
23 MR. YOUNG: Thank you, j udge.
24 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, your Honor .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 173
1 THE COURT: Yes.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: May I speak, your Honor .
3 Woul d i t be possi bl e, due t o my i ndi gency, t o be abl e
4 t o pr ocur e a copy of t he audi o of t he pr oceedi ngs her e
5 t oday so t hat I can r evi ew i t j ust sol el y f or my t r i al
6 pr ep, your Honor ?
7 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
8 I wi l l or der t hat we pr ovi de you wi t h a copy
9 of t he audi o f r omt oday' s pr oceedi ng. You can r evi ew
10 i t and i f you can t hi nk of any quest i ons, counsel
11 you' r e goi ng t o have t o put t hemi n wr i t i ng.
12 Al l r i ght . Anyt hi ng el se?
13 MR. YOUNG: J ust as f ar as t he quest i ons i n
14 wr i t i ng, agai n I woul d ask t hat he not be cont act i ng
15 your Honor dur i ng t he pendency - -
16 THE COURT: No. He' s not t o be cont act i ng me
17 and he' s not t o send me anyt hi ng unt i l t hi s t r i al i s
18 compl et ed. As f ar as I ' mconcer ned, I di dn' t see hi m
19 doi ng anyt hi ng anymor e.
20 MR. YOUNG: I ' mnot accusi ng hi mof doi ng i t ,
21 I j ust want t o make sur e i t ' s cl ear no one i s t o
22 cont act - -
23 THE COURT: Ever yt hi ng t hat ' s t her e wi l l be
24 del et ed wi t hout even openi ng, al l r i ght ?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 174
1 MR. YOUNG: Thank you, your Honor .
2 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, your Honor .
3 ( Wher eupon t he pr oceedi ngs wer e concl uded. )
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 175
1 STATE OF NEVADA )
2 ) Ss.
3 COUNTY OF WASHOE )
4
5 I , GAI L R. WI LLSEY, a not ar y publ i c i n and
6 f or t he Count y of Washoe, St at e of Nevada, do her eby
7 cer t i f y:
8 That I was pr ovi ded a J AVS CD and t hat sai d
9 CD was t r anscr i bed by me, a Cer t i f i ed Shor t hand
10 Repor t er , i n t he mat t er ent i t l ed her ei n;
11 That sai d t r anscr i pt whi ch appear s
12 her ei nbef or e was t aken i n st enot ype not es by me f r om
13 t he CD and t her eaf t er t r anscr i bed i nt o t ypewr i t i ng as
14 her ei n appear s t o t he best of my knowl edge, ski l l and
15 abi l i t y and i s a t r ue r ecor d t her eof .
16
17
18
19 __________________________
20 GAI L R. WI LLSEY, CSR #359
21
22
23
24
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A
ability 114:14
175:15
able 14:2231:2
31:453:18
62:794:15
105:17109:1
117:24149:3
156:18173:3
absence 81:11
absolutely 29:3
78:1698:1
116:6156:19
academy 9:14
accommodate
171:3
accommodates
170:7
accompanying
77:11
accurate 48:16
51:22
accused 160:7
accusing 173:20
act 164:8
acting 130:24
163:12169:17
activity 66:20
67:16
actual 27:5
67:18
adamant 112:8
addition 18:6
19:1063:16
131:13
additional 7:4
43:15,1944:1
44:251:16
73:1781:18
88:7167:13
168:3170:12
Additionally
73:22,23
address 14:9
77:13,18,22
85:21115:2,5
115:9143:19
151:15
addressed 73:19
addressing
68:1677:9
120:2
adequately 74:4
admissible 69:8
96:13117:4
admits 91:20
92:2
admitted 25:13
adults 12:11
36:3,2461:19
advise 16:18
144:18
advised 14:17
20:8,1428:5,6
29:1350:22
83:7138:7
144:20146:11
146:19147:5
159:22171:14
172:21
afternoon 99:4
142:24
age 35:9126:1
144:21157:13
157:20158:2,7
158:8
aggression 75:2
130:13,14
aggressive
126:7164:8
agitated 36:8
51:2461:24
80:10
agitation 81:16
ago 5:1552:11
57:1099:13
143:15145:7
agree 26:341:1
79:1984:22,24
95:10110:13
163:23168:18
agreed 169:1
agrees 105:19
ahead 15:2
19:1234:13
47:17100:14
102:13105:1
108:17140:3
154:24156:22
163:15164:5
167:16168:17
alerted 160:23
alleged 26:20,21
27:3,6,20
55:1857:7
96:19131:15
allegedly 12:19
49:455:18
alleviate 50:24
allow19:645:16
87:5114:23
130:18131:19
allowed 76:14
90:7155:19
allows 84:13
91:7
altercation 17:8
Amendment 5:8
117:6
amount 5:15
analysis 5:12
91:2293:5
94:10,10
and/or 18:10
animals 39:21
annoying 45:11
45:14,23,24
answer 14:5,18
16:917:22
48:764:865:1
65:2166:7,10
69:21,23,24
74:22,2476:21
91:16,1792:12
93:1,2294:20
126:16131:17
164:4,17
166:19
answered 45:15
65:1966:6
103:11
answering 18:7
45:347:20
62:2064:10
70:275:3
answers 5:22
anticipate 34:5
anxious 148:16
anybody 59:2
123:8124:13
131:4165:20
anybody's
101:18102:16
122:24
anymore 65:6
87:7115:17
173:19
anyway 13:7
apologize 37:21
45:1960:3
168:24
apparent 85:4,6
90:21130:14
133:16
appear 36:8
126:19131:3
171:17
appeared 35:4
51:2492:3
130:4141:3
163:11171:13
appears 13:21
61:575:24
175:11,14
applicability
84:4
applicable 61:2
85:15,16
applied 83:15
apply 7:24
appointed 6:11
appointment
34:8
approach 13:20
27:8112:20
146:14163:11
approached
102:15124:16
127:22146:18
appropriate
80:1183:5,14
86:187:11
131:17
approval 90:19
approximate
39:5
approximately
7:69:913:15
15:424:14
36:237:8
52:1456:2
71:17
area 11:2120:9
33:1841:18
100:21106:13
112:24132:15
143:16
areas 21:2
argue 73:17
92:1894:2
96:15114:20
argued 74:2
arguing 61:14
72:20,2285:18
130:22
argument 60:15
60:2168:17
69:573:19,20
74:1183:8,17
83:1985:7,10
85:1286:9
88:1290:14
131:13
argumentation
75:3
argumentative
79:1,21,23
81:16,1893:24
94:21
arguments
60:1273:15
77:489:8,9
argument's
86:1188:14,17
arises 78:21
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arm155:14
armed 49:15
63:1267:5
68:1370:7
73:4,2274:20
78:13,1780:21
81:5,8,993:11
94:17
arm's 161:5
arose 47:24
64:15
arrest 13:17
22:2123:3,4
23:1228:20
31:11,1332:1
32:10,1533:6
33:757:18
59:769:12,17
70:13,17,21
75:18,2084:7
84:986:22
87:5,6,9,21
89:12,18,22
90:1,1191:8
95:13,14,22
96:17,17,24
97:10
arrested 31:15
31:1757:17
arrival 38:21,24
79:3
arrive 43:8,15
43:22,24
111:12150:11
arrived 12:4,5
12:1015:8
20:224:11
35:436:538:9
38:15,1739:14
41:1243:20
44:452:12
53:556:1
58:24125:21
132:12,23
138:23155:5
159:13,14
arrives 61:12,17
arriving 92:1
article 40:21
41:13
articulable
64:1866:17,18
67:1,13,19
71:12
articulate 73:2
94:15
ascertain 62:7
73:1
aside 134:23
asked 16:725:7
28:1145:13
50:21,2353:17
54:658:5,6
65:571:172:9
86:17103:14
115:20116:8
121:9133:15
133:23134:23
136:10149:7
162:23
asking 45:21,22
46:1150:22
57:758:9,10
58:11,14,16,17
62:2063:4
70:1977:6
78:191:17,18
103:5110:7,13
110:15116:20
116:24117:5,9
117:12118:1,5
118:9,10120:8
120:23121:1
121:13,14
122:23163:20
163:21
assert 79:11
asserting 76:2
assigned 10:2
11:4
assignment 9:23
Associate
143:12
assume 68:17
101:18123:1
158:4
assumed 103:5
107:11
assuming 87:19
assumption
123:3
attack 130:13
attacked 41:7
attacking 25:16
25:21
attacks 26:7
attempting
26:12
attention 11:2
14:499:12
105:11,17
143:14157:2
attorney 105:3
116:5,6,16,17
121:11,19
attorney-client
121:20
audio 173:4,9
August 1:175:2
10:311:3
99:13143:15
145:15165:9
Austin 128:13
128:20129:19
139:6,6,11,14
139:20140:7,9
140:15,19,21
140:24141:4,4
141:9
Austin's 140:18
authorities
73:24
authority 16:8
63:5
authorization
172:15
authorize
172:16
authorized
93:18
automatically
78:1086:13
available 169:7
169:9,11,12
170:4,12,17
171:6
aware 110:2
150:3
A.M5:2
B
B128:24143:3
143:6,7151:4
151:8152:5
back 10:214:15
16:324:13
28:1230:13
33:2236:10
41:549:14,19
63:3,1879:15
81:1783:21
86:2496:6,7
99:12101:23
103:5111:6,9
114:3125:2
130:23131:24
138:20142:12
144:23145:9
145:14149:15
149:18150:8
150:15,22
151:11153:15
153:18159:4,7
167:9172:22
backed 139:11
backwards
73:16
badge 52:23
bag 55:9,9
baggie 54:13,13
56:1493:4
94:3,22
bailiff 155:23
ballpark 20:2
bar 6:150:3,6
60:1664:4
93:22170:24
barrier 126:8
based 5:6,22,24
17:12,2119:11
19:1325:16
61:465:9
70:2175:14
83:586:15
87:2192:17,22
96:1797:9
164:17,19
basic 145:2
basically 10:17
19:120:21
23:666:14
91:15109:20
126:12132:14
135:19151:14
157:6161:12
161:15
basis 44:21
62:1865:8
73:377:8,14
78:2179:22
80:13,1582:24
84:186:7
94:13
bearing 46:18
46:2284:14
163:4
beauty 82:20
becoming 24:8
beer 101:15
began 22:424:7
106:12
beginning 73:20
73:2499:20
158:16159:12
160:22
behave 130:3
160:12
behavior 66:4
157:1
beige 104:18
belabor 80:17
belief 70:6
78:1880:7
82:1983:3
believe 5:10,13
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7:1911:16
29:9,1447:4
49:15,2050:10
62:1264:11
67:571:19
72:1373:3
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81:4,2382:3
88:1094:17
95:1,19,21
96:18105:2
106:11107:2
110:22128:20
128:22133:24
137:11139:7
139:18140:10
150:5,18
152:24154:9
158:13163:7
172:6
believed 21:11
38:940:21
71:1872:18
95:17122:3,8
believes 63:11
64:368:10
80:20
belong 123:8
124:13136:18
belonged 122:4
136:10
belongs 100:1
belt 43:2,453:2
bench 172:1
best 6:1039:8
50:1360:17
135:21157:1
170:6175:14
better 31:16
46:4,10168:9
beyond 98:5
142:5168:3
bicycle 41:8,11
42:7,1162:9
big 100:7114:19
131:1
bike 40:2341:3
103:8106:12
134:6137:5,8
146:22147:5,9
148:20154:6
157:14160:1
black 145:2
blazer 147:16
blew114:18
118:19
body 63:10
93:19
boilerplate
82:22
boom84:10
Bosler 171:13
172:22
bottom106:22
106:23
brand 109:13
break 34:4,12
37:5,2268:5
97:23114:8
bridge 35:16
108:22112:24
126:8,10
brief 7:5,10,11
65:474:377:2
briefed 83:23
briefly 6:18
10:8
brightness
109:1,7111:4
brilliant 5:11
brings 11:7
99:15
broader 25:24
broke 38:8
brother 145:11
brown 147:16
bulges 92:6
bulk 98:7
bunch 64:23
125:7
burglaries
82:17
business 101:12
busy 48:5,5,7,12
button 109:22
109:24
Byington
129:20
bystander
144:21157:12
157:16
C
C3:68:2028:20
128:18,20
129:1143:4
call 6:137:22
11:1220:14
30:6,18,19,23
51:2052:3
68:679:5
83:2488:4
97:2098:16
131:4,5142:12
149:8158:13
158:20,22
159:21167:12
168:9,11,15,20
called 8:428:13
29:1430:13
49:164:22
87:189:3
103:10107:21
107:22108:2
108:19,23
110:16,18
112:6149:10
150:4,5,6,7
158:18159:7
165:10
calling 30:15
87:388:3,10
95:2496:22
calls 157:7
158:11
canvas 5:10
car 43:8,1053:5
53:7
care 16:4106:1
169:14
careful 62:16
carefully 161:23
cargo 54:13,20
54:21,2355:6
carrying 101:15
cars 44:9
case 1:95:9,12
5:246:6,98:2
8:313:10,13
26:1635:3
37:2441:2
49:1151:15
63:7,2368:1
75:1376:8,12
77:678:15
82:11,2483:16
84:585:11
90:17,1993:15
94:6,10,10,19
117:17119:14
130:12133:6
145:1,2167:6
cases 6:481:3
93:6,795:8
casual 154:23
catch 129:10
154:16
caught 160:20
160:24
cause 31:968:21
76:19,2386:22
87:5,2190:14
91:795:22
96:18,19,24
97:12
CC121:19,21
CD175:8,9,13
ceased 69:9
cell 30:4,11,12
144:6,14,19
148:14,15,17
153:23160:8
Center 11:21
12:635:15
certain 78:16
110:17
certainly 18:13
44:1156:6
60:1168:20
72:180:11,16
81:10,1989:4
98:6115:19
167:24169:4
certified 9:13
175:9
certify 175:7
challenged
46:2078:7
80:1489:4
challenges
117:6
Chan 128:16,18
129:10,13,16
129:17
chance 106:4
114:21119:5
161:14
changes 61:16
characterize
46:1178:24
charges 79:17
130:9
chase 159:13
check 21:1
107:15149:3
157:6,7
checked 21:3
checking 20:22
132:9,10
Chicago 15:5
chief 167:6
choose 69:21
chooses 119:13
choosing 82:13
Christmas
145:10,11
circle 35:22,23
circumstances
58:868:7
78:18,2280:6
80:1681:13,22
90:2194:11,12
95:4,6
cite 78:14
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cited 63:774:9
90:18
cites 90:19
citizen 42:19,20
63:1074:20
76:2490:20
93:12,21
citizens 94:2
citizen's 78:23
City 11:15
100:21
civil 6:7
claim77:21
101:19102:2
102:18117:2
136:14,19
claimed 103:6
122:24134:2
136:12,12
claiming 76:2
clarification
61:15
clarified 91:12
139:24
clarify 166:23
class 18:23
clear 26:1527:3
28:1832:17
78:4,1184:5
86:1596:4
102:19119:13
120:10,14
137:17141:12
141:13153:14
167:2168:10
173:21
clearly 46:24
90:9132:2
168:7
CLERK170:3
170:22
client 59:23
97:5
close 35:19
36:2338:13
61:21,2264:21
140:18157:13
clothes 12:19
19:1420:23
56:1463:6
79:180:3
92:13
clothing 12:14
13:714:7
23:2144:22
52:654:6
74:2491:22
92:794:1,3
106:22,23
140:16
codifies 66:14
codify 77:12
collared 40:11
147:17
colored 15:5
Colton 128:13
128:16,17
129:12,15
come 7:108:6
72:1697:14
98:18140:15
140:18172:22
comes 89:10,17
114:16
coming 5:17
comment 99:24
commented
7:12
committed
55:1995:2
commonly 46:1
communicate
121:12
communicating
54:19
communication
37:23
compared 23:2
23:15
compelled 64:8
competent 5:22
complete 10:20
60:21133:16
completed
19:15173:18
completely
149:12
Completeness
131:16
completes 10:11
completing 32:9
computer 14:21
conceal 19:15
80:3
concealed 20:23
56:19
concentrate
104:4155:17
concern 29:7
51:153:22
170:10
concerned 6:8
173:18
concerns 77:13
116:19
conclude 58:6
58:1766:20
67:2,15
concluded 38:18
174:3
conclusion
17:2418:2
21:7,1858:1,7
58:1671:20
119:14
conclusions
21:1372:14
conclusory
17:1584:19
concrete 81:21
condition 146:1
conduct 42:20
63:966:5
79:2282:9
105:14156:18
conducted
20:2044:7
48:164:16
74:18
conducting
16:1921:23
57:17
confidential
121:20
confirm8:22
32:2294:20
confirmed 66:4
confirming 91:6
conflict 5:7
conflicting 79:6
confront 107:5
147:8
confrontation
18:992:20
confrontational
16:1617:6
45:979:24
confronted
28:10112:22
137:13160:7
161:7
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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I N THE SECOND J UDI CI AL DI STRI CT COURT OF THE STATE OF
NEVADA
I N AND FOR THE COUNTY OF WASHOE
- oOo-
THE STATE OF NEVADA, :
:
Pl ai nt i f f , : Case No. CR12- 2025
: Dept No. 10
vs. :
:
ZACH COUGHLI N, :
:
Def endant . :
======================================================
PARTI AL TRANSCRI PT OF PROCEEDI NGS
SUPPRESSI ON HEARI NG
August 29, 2012
Reno, Nevada
SUNSHI NE LI TI GATI ON SERVI CES
Tr anscr i bed By: GAI L R. WI LLSEY, CSR #359, CA CSR
#9748
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 2
1
2
3
4
5 ^. ^
6 A P P E A R A N C E S
7
8
FOR THE PLAI NTI FF:
9 MR. YOUNG, ESQ.
10
11
12
13
FOR THE DEFENDANT:
14 MR. LESLI E
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 3
1 **^. ^**
2 RENO, NEVADA, AUGUST 29, 2012, 9: 10 A. M.
3 **^. ^**
4
5 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , whi ch case ar e we
6 her e ar e on? Ar e we her e on t he gr oss mi sdemeanor or
7 ar e we her e on t he pet t y l ar ceny t r i al ?
8 THE COURT: I under st ood we' r e her e on t he
9 pet t y l ar ceny t r i al .
10 MR. LESLI E: Okay. I can speak t o t hat case.
11 Mr . Dogan i s her e on t he gr oss mi sdemeanor . I t hi nk
12 t hat you had set t he gr oss mi sdemeanor t oday as wel l .
13 MR. YOUNG: Yeah. We' r e on MSC f or t he gr oss
14 mi sdemeanor , t hat ' s t he onl y i ssue we have wi t h
15 r espect t o t hat case. So I woul d ask t hat we cal l
16 t hat case f i r st , t hat shoul d t ake a mat t er of seconds
17 and t hen move on t o t he l ar ceny case.
18 THE COURT: Yeah. I apol ogi ze, I do have a
19 second f i l e whi ch nor mal l y woul d not be my case but
20 t hat ' s unl awf ul use of an emer gency t el ephone number .
21 MR. YOUNG: Cor r ect .
22 THE COURT: I naudi bl e.
23 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , your Honor , I had f i l ed a
24 mot i on back on J ul y 30, 2012, f or l eave of cour t t o
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 4
1 amend t he compl ai nt t o change i t f r oma gr oss
2 mi sdemeanor , mi suse of 911 t o a mi sdemeanor r esi st i ng.
3 On Monday, wi t h t he pur por t ed pl ea negot i at i ons, I had
4 f i l ed an amended cr i mi nal compl ai nt char gi ng
5 di st ur bi ng t he peace. I f you r ecal l , t hat di d not go
6 t hr ough.
7 THE COURT: And t hat was st r i cken.
8 MR. LESLI E: That was st r i cken. So we' r e
9 back t o t he or i gi nal compl ai nt on 911. So we st i l l
10 need t o addr ess t he mot i on. So t hat ' s t he onl y t hi ng
11 I ask t hat we do t oday. I have not seen an
12 opposi t i on. I don' t know i f t her e wi l l be one but i f
13 t hat ' s - -
14 THE COURT: I s t her e any obj ect i on t hen t o
15 amend t he or i gi nal compl ai nt t o t he mi sdemeanor
16 char ge?
17 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , we have no obj ect i on
18 f r omt he compl ai nt . Cour t ' s i ndul gence.
19 THE DEFENDANT: I ' msor r y, your Honor .
20 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , we have no
21 obj ect i on.
22 THE COURT: Wel l , does he need t o be
23 ar r ai gned?
24 THE DEFENDANT: I f I may j ust ent er f or t he
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 5
1 r ecor d, your Honor , t hat ' s not what I t ol d my counsel
2 j ust now.
3 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , he has an at t or ney.
4 I woul d ask t hat he addr ess t he cour t t hr ough hi s
5 at t or ney.
6 THE COURT: Fur t her mor e, I don' t know why
7 t he Di st r i ct At t or ney even has t o move a mot i on t o
8 amend.
9 MR. YOUNG: I don' t but I di d i t f or pur poses
10 of t he r ecor d t o make i t cl ean, your Honor .
11 THE COURT: Okay.
12 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , my poi nt i s mor e
13 t o t he ef f ect of an MSC has some benef i t t o a
14 def endant as t o do ear l y case conf er ences and st at us
15 conf er ences. I wi sh t o t ake advant age of t hose
16 benef i t s but i n or der t o do so, I need t o be not i ced
17 on t hese hear i ngs. I ' ve not been not i ced on t he past
18 t wo hear i ngs - -
19 THE COURT: Si r , you' r e her e, you wer e
20 not i ced.
21 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , yest er day I was her e
22 but August 6t h and August 22nd I was not . Li nda Gr ey
23 of t he Publ i c Def ender ' s Of f i ce admi t t ed t hat t her e
24 was a conf usi ng r egar di ng what my addr ess was no f aul t
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 6
1 of my own. The l et t er s wer en' t mai l ed out .
2 THE COURT: Si r , we' r e t al ki ng about t oday.
3 You' r e her e t oday.
4 THE DEFENDANT: I ' mher e t oday f or a t r i al .
5 THE COURT: Wel l , t hat ' s t he second mat t er .
6 You' r e her e t oday on t hi s one f or an ar r ai gnment .
7 Wel l , act ual l y you' r e her e f or an MSC. I f you want t o
8 pr oceed wi t h a f el ony, si r , t hat ' s per f ect l y f i ne wi t h
9 me.
10 THE DEFENDANT: Poi nt t aken. I under st and,
11 your Honor , i t ' s t o my benef i t f or i t not t o be a
12 f el ony but - -
13 THE COURT: Or a gr oss mi sdemeanor , I
14 apol ogi ze.
15 THE DEFENDANT: Under st ood, your Honor .
16 My poi nt I guess i s t hat t her e mi ght be some
17 avenue t o chal l enge amendi ng at t hi s poi nt t hat woul d
18 i nur e t o my benef i t . Per haps t hat ' s over l awyer i ng
19 i t - -
20 THE COURT: I t hi nk i t def i ni t el y i s.
21 Ther e' s many ways t he D A can do t hi s, but t he t hi ng
22 i s you' r e ei t her r epr esent ed or you' r e not , si r . I
23 t al ked t o you about t hi s bef or e. I f you want t o
24 r epr esent your sel f , we can do a Far et t a canvas and we
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 7
1 can do t hat , but you can' t have i t bot h ways. Ei t her
2 you have counsel or you don' t .
3 THE DEFENDANT: I agr ee, your Honor , and I
4 t hi nk i t ' s a shame t hat t he Publ i c Def ender ' s Of f i cer
5 r esour ces ar e spr ead so t hi n and t hat t he Count y' s
6 Di st r i ct At t or ney i s seeki ng t o subver t t he Si xt h
7 Amendment f ur t her t o t hi s ear l y case r esol ut i on
8 pr ocess t hat t hey' ve ent er ed i nt o - -
9 THE COURT: I sai d ei t her you r epr esent
10 your sel f or you have counsel , whi ch i s i t , si r ?
11 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , as t hi ngs cur r ent l y
12 st and, somet i mes i t seems as t hough i t ' s a bi t of bot h
13 when t he Publ i c Def ender i s asked t o t ake on so many
14 cases.
15 THE COURT: I t ' s not a bi t of bot h, i t ' s up
16 t o you. We need t o cl ar i f y t hi s bef or e we go any
17 f ur t her because i f you cont i nual l y i nt er j ect i n t he
18 pr oceedi ngs, I amgoi ng t o f i nd you i n cont empt of
19 cour t .
20 So i f you want t o r epr esent your sel f , I wi l l
21 conduct a Far et t a canvas and we' l l go f r omt her e. I f
22 you want t o have counsel r epr esent you, t hat ' s f i ne.
23 I f you want t o r epr esent your sel f and have counsel be
24 st andby counsel , t hat wi l l be okay as wel l assumi ng I
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 f i nd t hat you' r e abl e t o r epr esent your sel f .
2 THE DEFENDANT: I woul d l i ke t hat co- counsel
3 ar r angement , your Honor .
4 MR. LESLI E: And, your Honor , we need t o be
5 hear d on t hat bef or e t hat happens.
6 MR. YOUNG: And, your Honor , i f I may, I
7 t hought t he 911 case was goi ng t o t ake t wo seconds,
8 t hat was cer t ai nl y my i nt ent . We have t r i al on t he
9 l ar ceny case. I woul d ask t hat we j ust set t hi s MSC
10 out f or a mot i ons hear i ng, t hat way t he cour t can
11 addr ess my mot i on t o amend and any mot i ons t hey have.
12 I want t o get goi ng on t hi s t r i al .
13 MR. LESLI E: We' ve al r eady agr eed t o t he
14 mot i on t o amend.
15 THE COURT: No, si r , t hat ' s not cl ear t o me
16 at al l . So we ar e goi ng t o cont i nue t hi s mat t er ; when
17 do you want i t cont i nued t o?
18 MR. YOUNG: I wi l l def er t o cour t and
19 counsel .
20 THE COURT: I s one week al l r i ght ?
21 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , can we cont i nue i t
22 t wo weeks. I won' t be her e next week?
23 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , t wo weeks.
24 Mr . Coughl i n?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 9
1 THE DEFENDANT: And, your Honor , j ust t o
2 poi nt out t hat ' s one of my posi t i ons i s t hat t her e was
3 a t r i al set at a hear i ng f or whi ch I was never
4 not i ced.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , can we get a new
6 dat e f or t he MSC?
7 THE COURT: Si r , t hat ' s enough.
8 MR. LESLI E: He' s goi ng t o hol d you i n
9 cont empt i f you' r e not car ef ul .
10 THE CLERK: Sept ember 25t h at 10: 00 f or t he
11 mot i on hear i ng.
12 MR. YOUNG: Thank you, your Honor .
13 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , I do have an
14 appoi nt ment wi t h t he St at e Bar .
15 THE COURT: Whi ch day?
16 THE DEFENDANT: Sept ember 25t h.
17 MR. LESLI E: I woul d ask t hat some
18 accomodat i on be gi ven.
19 THE COURT: Yeah, I wi l l accommodat e.
20 Mr . Coughl i n, Oct ober 2nd?
21 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , t hat wor ks.
22 THE COURT: That ' s Mr . Dogan' s day?
23 MR. LESLI E: I ' mwr i t i ng i t down j ust f or my
24 own pur poses, your Honor . Mr . Dogan i s wr i t i ng i t
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 10
1 down as wel l .
2 THE CLERK: Oct ober 2nd at 10: 00.
3 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
4 THE COURT: Okay. So t hat case i s cont i nued
5 f or MSC.
6 MR. YOUNG: And f or mot i ons hear i ng on any
7 mot i ons.
8 THE COURT: And f or mot i ons hear i ng.
9 Now, we' r e goi ng t o st ar t wi t h Case Number
10 2011- 063341. Thi s i s a t r i al dat e, and I pr evi ousl y
11 di d r ul e on t hi s mat t er .
12 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , may I j ust make a
13 r ecor d of somet hi ng ver y qui ckl y?
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 MR. YOUNG: Two t hi ngs. One, I ' mhandi ng Mr .
16 Coughl i n a bl ank pad of paper and a pen so he can t ake
17 not es t hr ough t hese pr oceedi ngs.
18 Number t wo, Mr . Dogan j ust handed hi m- -
19 THE DEFENDANT: That ' s at t or ney- cl i ent
20 pr i vi l ege, si r .
21 MR. LESLI E: Of t he dat e t hat you r eci t ed f or
22 t he MSC and t he mot i ons hear i ng.
23 THE COURT: Wel l , i t was sai d i n open cour t
24 as wel l and Mr . Coughl i n i s her e.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 I amgoi ng t o i ndi cat e on t he r ecor d, si r ,
2 t hat our l ast cour t pr oceedi ng, at one poi nt , you had
3 r equest ed t hat you r epr esent your sel f and
4 subsequent l y, we wer e pr epar ed t o do t he Far et t a
5 canvas. You decl i ned and you deci ded t o go f or war d
6 wi t h counsel .
7 So at t hi s t i me, I ' madvi si ng you t hat you
8 ar e under t he same r ul es as any ot her per son i n t hi s
9 cour t . You wi l l addr ess t he cour t t hr ough your
10 counsel and not di r ect l y and i f you do so, I wi l l hol d
11 you i n cont empt of cour t , under st ood?
12 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , your Honor . Can I
13 seek one poi nt of cl ar i f i cat i on, si r ?
14 THE COURT: You may.
15 THE DEFENDANT: At an ear l i er hear i ng, I
16 bel i eve i t was t he Oct ober 28t h hear i ng and I bel i eve
17 t hi s i s l aw of t he case, I mi ght be wr ong, your Honor ,
18 but you had i ndi cat ed you woul d al l ow me t o pr oceed as
19 co- counsel on t hi s mat t er .
20 MR. YOUNG: That ' s a mot i on, your Honor , t hat
21 needs t o be addr essed I woul d submi t f i r st because
22 t her e' s a mot i on t o act as co- counsel . I f i l ed an
23 opposi t i on t o t hat . I woul d ask t hat we addr ess t hat
24 f i r st because t hat may hel p us.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 12
1 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
2 Ther e i s a mot i on i n t he f i l e t hat - - and I
3 do apol ogi ze because I di d go t hr ough t hi s one. What
4 I t hought we woul d be addr essi ng bef or e t r i al i s I
5 have an aut hor i zat i on t o r epr esent and t hen I have t he
6 mot i on whi ch was f i l ed by counsel t o suppr ess. And
7 f ol l owi ng t hat , I di dn' t - - t her e was a mot i on t o
8 cont i nue t r i al - - wel l , a mot i on t o st r i ke f ugi t i ve
9 document whi ch I f or got . Ther e was a not i ce of
10 appear ances suppl ement t o mot i on t o accept pr et r i al ,
11 mot i ons wer e unt i mel y, t hen t hat was mot i on t o st r i ke
12 t hat document .
13 Then we had a mot i on t o appoi nt co- counsel
14 whi ch was f i l ed on Febr uar y 21, 2012. Then we had t he
15 opposi t i on t o mot i on t o suppr ess and t hen we had t he
16 opposi t i on t o mot i on t o cont i nue t r i al dat e and mot i on
17 t o appoi nt co- counsel . The cour t , t o my knowl edge,
18 has not r ul ed on t hat because i n t he meant i me, we had
19 t o t he what I woul d cal l t he mot i on t o t r ansf er t hi s
20 case t o Ment al Heal t h Cour t i s act ual l y a di f f er ent
21 case t hat was t r ansf er r ed but as par t of t hat , we
22 t r ansf er r ed t hi s, and t hen t her e was not a r ul i ng on
23 t hat mot i on.
24 So we wi l l addr ess t he mot i ons i n t hi s or der .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 The mot i on t o appoi nt co- counsel , t hen we wi l l do t he
2 Mot i on To Suppr ess. Wel l , I ' msor r y, t hen I ' l l do t he
3 Mot i on For Summar y J udgment because I don' t bel i eve
4 t hat i s a val i d mot i on but t hat wi l l be consi der ed
5 second. Then we wi l l do t he Mot i on To Suppr ess and
6 t hen we' l l do t he t r i al , i f necessar y.
7 Al l r i ght . So l et ' s st ar t wi t h t he mot i on t o
8 appoi nt co- counsel whi ch mot i on now so f ar as I can
9 t el l was f i l ed by Mr . Goodni ght and sol el y at Mr .
10 Coughl i n' s r equest .
11 Si r , j ust so i t ' s cl ear , we di d go t hr ough
12 t hi s. At one poi nt , I di d of f er you t he opt i on t o
13 r epr esent your sel f and have a publ i c def ender
14 r epr esent you and you r ef used t hat . Then j ust
15 yest er day or t he day bef or e yest er day, I ' msor r y, I
16 of f er ed you t he same opt i on whi ch essent i al l y was
17 decl i ned, but I amwi l l i ng t o consi der t hi s mot i on
18 t oday. Then I wi l l not e t hat t he publ i c def ender says
19 over t he obj ect i on of counsel , Mr . Coughl i n r equest ed
20 be appoi nt ed as co- counsel .
21 So si nce i t does appear t he publ i c def ender
22 knew t he adver si t y on t hi s i ssue, ar e you st i l l of
23 t hat posi t i on?
24 MR. LESLI E: Yes, and I woul d ask t o be hear d
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 14
1 on t hat .
2 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
3 Why don' t we do t hi s, f i r st of f , Mr . Coughl i n
4 addr essed me as t o why he must act as co- counsel and
5 t hen you can st at e your posi t i on and t hen we' l l hear
6 f r omMr . Young.
7 MR. LESLI E: Ver y wel l .
8 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, your Honor , t hank you.
9 J ust t o seek t o put f or war d, my under st andi ng
10 i s t he cour t j ust r ecent l y r epr esent ed t hat yest er day,
11 I r ef used an opt i on t o appear as co- counsel , t hat
12 wasn' t my under st andi ng. My under st andi ng was t he
13 choi ce was bet ween havi ng no i nput f r omt he publ i c
14 def ender s or bei ng my own sol e counsel , i t ' s t he
15 co- counsel ar r angement t hat I f i nd desi r abl e because
16 Mr . Lesl i e' s t he Chi ef Publ i c Def ender . He' s someone
17 who has ver y hi gh r egar d i n t he l egal communi t y f or
18 t he acumen wi t h whi ch he br i ngs t o t he t abl e and
19 cr i mi nal def ense r epr esent at i on. That bei ng sai d, he
20 dr aws hi s paycheck f r omt he same ent i t y t hat empl oys
21 t he Di st r i ct At t or ney.
22 The Di st r i ct At t or ney had a r ol e i n pi cki ng
23 Mr . Bosl er , i t ' s somet hi ng t hat ' s i nher ent t o t he
24 Publ i c Def ender ' s Of f i ce t hr oughout t he count r y i s
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 15
1 t hat t her e' s somewhat of a t ough l i ne t hat t he publ i c
2 def ender has t o st r addl e. I seek t o bal ance t hat by
3 appear i ng as co- counsel . At t i mes, Mr . Lesl i e i sn' t
4 comf or t abl e maki ng some of t he ar gument s I wi sh t o
5 make. A co- counsel ar r angement wi l l al l ow me t o make
6 t hose ar gument s wi t h I bel i eve an al l owance f or Mr .
7 Lesl i e not t o have t o make any ar gument s he' s
8 uncomf or t abl e wi t h. I don' t bel i eve he woul d be i n
9 any way vi ol at i ng any r ul es of pr of essi onal conduct i n
10 so doi ng. Cer t ai nl y, i f he f i nds t hat I ' mcommi t t i ng
11 per j ur y or pr esent i ng f r aud upon t he cour t , t her e' s
12 st eps he can t ake t o wi t hdr aw.
13 At t hi s poi nt , I t hi nk al l t he di sagr eement s
14 ar e j ust mai nl y over t act i cal measur es. I ' ve done a
15 f ai r amount of r esear ch i n t hi s r egar d - - ( i naudi bl e)
16 abl e t o cont r ol t he means and obj ect i ves of l i t i gat i on
17 ver sus t he t act i cs t aki ng or chosen t o pur sue t hose
18 obj ect i ves.
19 My under st andi ng pr evi ousl y was t hat t hi s
20 cour t di d r ul e and i t i s l aw of t he case and
21 r espect f ul l y, I coul d be wr ong her e, your Honor , i s
22 t hat you had i ndi cat ed you woul d al l ow me t o appear as
23 co- counsel i n t hi s case. I ' mpr esent i ng t o t hi s cour t
24 at t hi s t i me as I bel i eve I ' ve done pr evi ousl y i n my
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 16
1 mot i on t o appear as co- counsel t hat t hat ' s somet hi ng I
2 wi sh t o do and - -
3 THE COURT: Wel l , my pr obl emi s t hi s, si r ,
4 t he case i s al most unmanageabl e when you i nt er j ect and
5 not onl y i nt er j ect but t o me, your counsel i n cour t
6 and t hat wi t hout even t al ki ng t o hi msomet i mes.
7 Somet i mes you j ust j ump up.
8 The onl y way t hat I woul d per mi t you t o act
9 as co- counsel woul d be you woul d be t he pr i nci pal
10 counsel i n al l deci si ons and t hen i f t her e was
11 somet hi ng whi ch af t er you consul t ed wi t h hi m, t hen he
12 woul d have t he r i ght t o advi se you f r om- - even on t he
13 r ecor d t hat he' s advi si ng on not t o speak on t hat and
14 t hen i f you chose t o speak, you coul d do so. The
15 pr obl emi s i t woul d be agai nst t he advi ce of counsel ,
16 and I woul d st i l l have t o do a Far et t a canvas - -
17 ( i naudi bl e) t o counsel I t hi nk not but I t hi nk i s t he
18 pr obl em.
19 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , and j ust t o
20 i nt er j ect i n t hat r egar d, I t hi nk some of what you' r e
21 r ef er r i ng t o, your Honor , i s unf or t unat e but i t ' s a
22 bypr oduct of havi ng Mr . Lesl i e be t he sol e counsel
23 her e t o t he ext ent i t r eal l y cur t ai l s my abi l i t y t o
24 di r ect my def ense. So we have but t ed heads
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 17
1 r espect f ul l y.
2 I cer t ai nl y have a l ot of r espect f or Mr .
3 Lesl i e, but i t i s a di f f i cul t si t uat i on. I can t el l
4 you as an at t or ney def endi ng her e when t her e' s t i mes
5 you want t o wi n an ar gument but t o t he ext ent you' r e
6 somewhat pr event ed f r omdoi ng so by havi ng a publ i c
7 def ender on your case.
8 I t hi nk a l ot of t hat di scor d t hat you
9 ment i oned woul d di ssi pat e t o t he ext ent t hat I ' m
10 al l owed t o par t i ci pat e as co- counsel . I f you have an
11 unr ul y chi l d i n a gr ade school cl ass and you make t hem
12 a hal l moni t or , al l of a sudden he f eel s l i ke he has
13 some i nvol vement i n somet hi ng. He' s bet t er behaved,
14 you know. Maybe t hat ' s an awkwar d anal ogy, but I
15 t hi nk i t ' s somewhat apt her e, and I hope t hat what was
16 pr esent ed t o t he cour t ear l y t hi s mor ni ng - -
17 MR. YOUNG: I woul d obj ect at t hi s poi nt t o
18 r ef er enci ng t he summar y j udgment mot i on.
19 THE COURT: I ' mgoi ng t o sust ai n t he
20 obj ect i on.
21 THE DEFENDANT: Pr et r i al br i ef .
22 MR. YOUNG: I obj ect t o t hat as wel l .
23 THE COURT: Al l we' r e t al ki ng about i s
24 whet her or not you shoul d be co- counsel , si r .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 18
1 THE DEFENDANT: And t he onl y manner i n whi ch
2 I wi sh t o r ef er ence t hat i s I hope f r omt hi s, i t
3 di spl ays a pr ogr essi on on my par t t owar ds - - i t ' s not
4 as l ong f r ommy past . I hope t hat t he t one and t he
5 edi t i ng of i t demonst r at es a r eal pr ogr essi on i n a
6 movement t owar ds what t hi s cour t woul d l i ke t o see
7 f r omme.
8 THE COURT: Mr . Lesl i e?
9 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I ant i ci pat e t hese
10 pr oceedi ngs wi l l be l ong, and I mean no di sr espect t o
11 t he cour t , woul d you mi nd i f I sat whi l e I pr esent ed
12 my ar gument s?
13 THE COURT: No.
14 MR. LESLI E: Thank you.
15 Your Honor , I woul d poi nt t o t he mot i on t hat
16 Mr . Goodni ght f i l ed on Page 2. Thi s i s t he mot i on t o
17 appoi nt co- counsel . On Page 2, t her e' s a shor t Poi nt s
18 and Aut hor i t i es, and I woul d hi ghl i ght f or you at l i ne
19 12 and a hal f about hal f way t hr ough t he sent ence, i t
20 begi ns, " However , t he cour t may aut hor i ze t hi s
21 ar r angement , " and t hen i t goes on t o quot es i n t he
22 l anguage.
23 What i t essent i al l y says i s t hat t he cour t
24 may, i n i t s di scr et i on i f i t bel i eves i t i s wi se t o do
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 19
1 so, appoi nt co- counsel , appoi nt t he def endant hi msel f
2 as co- counsel , i f t he cour t bel i eves t her e' s a
3 subst ant i al showi ng. So i f i n your wi sdomyou t hi nk
4 i t ' s been subst ant i al l y shown and demonst r at ed,
5 t hr oughout t he cour se of t hese pr oceedi ngs, t hat t he
6 cause of j ust i ce woul d i n f act be ser ved of by havi ng
7 Mr . Coughl i n as co- counsel , and i f you f ur t her bel i eve
8 t her e' s a subst ant i al showi ng t hat t he or der l y and
9 expedi t i ous conduct of t he cour t ' s busi ness i n t hi s
10 case wi l l not be subst ant i al l y hi nder ed, hamper ed or
11 del ayed by havi ng Mr . Coughl i n as co- counsel , t hen you
12 have t he di scr et i on t o appoi nt hi mas co- counsel .
13 I n al l candor t o t he cour t and I aman
14 of f i cer of t he cour t , I woul d ci t e t o t he ext ensi ve
15 r ecor d i n t hi s case, t he pr oceedi ngs as t hey exi st ed
16 even bef or e I t ook r epr esent at i on of t he case. I
17 woul d har ken back t o Monday' s pr oceedi ngs whi ch t ook
18 an hour and 45 mi nut es and accompl i shed not hi ng. I
19 woul d har ken t o t he var i ous f i l i ngs t hat Mr . Coughl i n
20 has at t empt ed t o make i n t hi s case.
21 Wi t h al l due r espect t o Mr . Coughl i n i n hi s
22 pr ogr ess i n t he t one and t he cont ent of hi s f ugi t i ve
23 document s, I don' t bel i eve t hat t he cause of j ust i ce
24 woul d be ser ved by havi ng hi mas co- counsel . I f eel
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 20
1 comf or t abl e guar ant eei ng t hat t hese pr oceedi ngs wi l l
2 not pr oceed i n an or der l y and expedi t i ous f ashi on. I
3 don' t bel i eve t hat t he cour t ' s busi ness i n t hi s case
4 wi l l be anyt hi ng ot her t han hi nder ed, hamper ed and
5 del ayed.
6 Now, I st and r eady, wi l l i ng and abl e t o
7 r epr esent hi mt o t he best of my abi l i t i es whi ch I
8 t hi nk f r ankl y ar e bet t er t han hi s abi l i t i es as
9 demonst r at ed by t he r ecor d i n t hi s case. I t hi nk t hat
10 t he choi ce f or hi mi s si mpl y t hi s: I s he goi ng t o
11 al l ow hi s counsel t o r epr esent hi mor i s he goi ng t o
12 f er et t a out of t hat ar r angement and r epr esent hi msel f ,
13 i n whi ch case I wi l l gi ve hi mmy exhi bi t s, any ot her
14 document s t hat he' l l need t o conduct t he t r i al , many
15 of whi ch he' s al r eady been pr ovi ded, and I wi l l ask
16 t he cour t ' s per mi ssi on, upon hi mbei ng gr ant ed
17 per mi ssi on t o r epr esent hi msel f , I wi l l ask t o be
18 r el i eved and t o be excused f r omt he pr oceedi ngs.
19 I r eal l y t hi nk, j udge, i n al l candor and i n
20 al l honest y as an of f i cer of t he cour t , i f you appoi nt
21 hi mas co- counsel , t hi s wi l l be a ci r cus and t hat ' s my
22 posi t i on.
23 THE COURT: Mr . Young?
24 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t hat was t he exact
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 21
1 wor d I was goi ng t o use i s t hi s woul d be an absol ut e
2 ci r cus i f Mr . Coughl i n i s - - and I say t hi s
3 r espect f ul l y appoi nt ed as co- counsel .
4 The mot i ons f i l ed by t he Publ i c Def ender ' s
5 Of f i ce by Mr . Goodni ght you not i ce ci t es al l
6 Cal i f or ni a cases and i t ' s ci t es t wo Fer et t a but t he
7 quot es ar e f r oma Cal i f or ni a case. Obvi ousl y, t hat ' s
8 not bi ndi ng aut hor i t y on t hi s cour t . You can
9 cer t ai nl y consi der i t , but i t ' s not bi ndi ng.
10 The cases whi ch t he St at e ci t es i n i t s
11 opposi t i on ar e Nevada Supr eme Cour t opi ni ons, t hat i s
12 bi ndi ng aut hor i t y on t hi s cour t . I f you l ook at my
13 opposi t i on t o mot i on f or co- counsel - -
14 THE COURT: One second, Mr . Young, because I
15 l ost page t hat I was l ooki ng on. Whi ch page ar e you
16 r ef er r i ng t o on your br i ef ?
17 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , i f you l ook at my
18 opposi t i on, your Honor - -
19 THE COURT: I have your opposi t i on.
20 MR. YOUNG: Look at page - - t her e was a
21 mot i on t o cont i nue, t hat ' s moot because we' r e al r eady
22 past t hat dat e. So i f you go t o page f i ve whi ch i s my
23 Subsect i on B ar gument t i t l ed " The def endant shoul d not
24 be al l owed t o act as co- counsel . "
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Page 22
1 THE COURT: Lat en V St at e?
2 MR. YOUNG: Cor r ect . Lat en V St at e says ver y
3 cl ear l y quot e, " I f t he def endant el ect s t o have
4 counsel , he has no r i ght t o r epr esent hi msel f . " That
5 i s bi ndi ng aut hor i t y f r omt he Nevada Supr eme Cour t , i t
6 i s unambi guous, i t i s as cl ear as can be.
7 You not i ce t hat t her e' s a mot i on t o st r i ke
8 whi ch I f i l ed on Febr uar y 21st , and I i ncor por at e al l
9 t hose ar gument s by r ef er ence i nt o t hi s, t hat case goes
10 on t o say t o f ur t her hammer home t he poi nt on page 3
11 of t hat , I ci t e Wheby, WH E B Y V War den, and t hat
12 says t hat t he Nevada Supr eme Cour t has quot e,
13 " Pr evi ousl y det er mi ned t hat al t hough a cr i mi nal
14 def endant may have bot h r i ght of sel f r epr esent at i on
15 and a r i ght t o assi st ance of counsel , t hi s does not
16 mean t hat a def endant i s ent i t l ed t o have hi s case
17 pr esent ed i n cour t by bot h hi msel f and by counsel
18 act i ng at t he same t i me or al t er nat i vel y, at t he
19 def endant ' s pl easur e. "
20 I go on on pages f our and f i ve t o poi nt out
21 al l t he pr act i cal pr obl ems t hat coul d ar i se i f t he
22 cour t al l ows a co- counsel r el at i onshi p and i t cr eat es
23 an absol ut e mess i n a whol e l ot of r egar ds.
24 The Rhyne case, R H Y N E ver sus St at e,
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 23
1 agai n, Nevada Supr eme Cour t case st at es quot e, " Whi l e
2 t he cl i ent may make deci si ons r egar di ng t he ul t i mat e
3 obj ect i ves of r epr esent at i ons, t he t r i al l awyer al one
4 i s ent r ust ed wi t h deci si ons r egar di ng l egal t act i cs. "
5 So what i s made cl ear by t hese t hr ee cases
6 agai n, bi ndi ng aut hor i t y f r omt he Nevada Supr eme
7 Cour t , i s t hat Mr . Coughl i n has t he r i ght t o r epr esent
8 hi msel f or al t er nat i vel y t o be r epr esent ed by counsel
9 whi ch i s t he case her e and i f t hat cont r ol s whi ch
10 agai n i s our cur r ent posi t i on, i s t hat Mr . Lesl i e
11 cont r ol s al l l egal t act i cs and t hat ' s what he' s
12 ent r ust ed t o do. So t he t hought of even al l owi ng hi m
13 t o act as co- counsel , one, woul d put a huge wr ench
14 i nt o t hi s speci f i c case. I t i s al so compl et el y
15 r ej ect ed by t he Nevada Supr eme Cour t .
16 So I woul d ask t hat you deny t he mot i on t o
17 act as co- counsel . I woul d ask t hat you - - t her e was
18 no opposi t i on f i l ed, but t he mot i on t o st r i ke f ugi t i ve
19 document s, I f i l ed t hat because I keep get t i ng f axes
20 and t he l i ke f r omMr . Coughl i n, not f r omhi s at t or ney,
21 but f r omMr . Coughl i n, sendi ng t o me t hese hundr eds of
22 pages of document s and at t achment s and exhi bi t s whi ch
23 f r ankl y, I don' t even have t i me t o r ead i n f ul l . One
24 of t hem, Mr . Tut t l e wi t h t he Cour t Admi ni st r at or ,
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 24
1 advi sed vi a an e- mai l t hat i t was goi ng t o be f i l ed,
2 t hat ' s what l ed me t o f i l e t he Mot i on t o St r i ke.
3 So I woul d submi t t hat al l pl eadi ngs f i l ed by
4 not Mr . Coughl i n' s at t or ney but Mr . Coughl i n hi msel f
5 al l be st r i cken as f ugi t i ve document s because he' s had
6 an at t or ney. Respect f ul l y, j udge, t her e' s absol ut el y
7 no basi s t o l et hi mact as co- counsel .
8 MR. LESLI E: And, your Honor , I j ust want t o
9 make sur e t hat I ' mf ol l owi ng your i nst r uct i ons. I
10 t hi nk you want ed t o hear comment on t he co- counsel
11 appoi nt ment mot i on f i r st . I di d not mean t o negl ect
12 comment s on t he f ugi t i ve document s i ssue, but I
13 under st ood we woul d be deal i ng wi t h co- counsel i ssues
14 f i r st .
15 THE COURT: I wi l l al l ow you t o addr ess t hat .
16 I wi l l al l ow Mr . Coughl i n j ust a br i ef wor d. Any
17 l egal aut hor i t y you have f or your posi t i on based on
18 what Mr . Young has i ndi cat ed pr et t y much t hat I don' t
19 even have di scr et i on t o do what you want t o do. So
20 Mr . Lesl i e - -
21 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , my r epl y on t hat
22 par t i cul ar i ssue i s t hat I t hi nk you do have
23 di scr et i on, but I t hi nk t hat as I ar t i cul at ed bef or e,
24 I t hi nk i t woul d be an unwi se exer ci se of your
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 25
1 di scr et i on, f or t he r easons t hat I st at ed bef or e.
2 I f your r ol e as t he j udge i n t hi s case i s t o
3 mai nt ai n an or der l y and expedi t i ous pr oceedi ng at
4 t r i al and t o see t hat j ust i ce i s done and t o see t hat
5 t he publ i c has r easons, af t er vi ewi ng t hese
6 pr oceedi ngs and bei ng abl e t o come back l at er and vi ew
7 t he publ i c r ecor d of t hese pr oceedi ngs. I f al l of
8 t hose t hi ngs ar e t r ue and I t hi nk t hey ar e, and I
9 t hi nk you woul d agr ee, t hen one does wonder whet her i t
10 mi ght ar guabl y be an abuse of di scr et i on t o gr ant t he
11 co- counsel r equest of Mr . Coughl i n i n l i ght of hi s
12 demonst r at ed behavi or i n t er ms of f i l i ngs and i n t er ms
13 of hi s i n- cour t behavi or . You know, I r espect hi s
14 desi r e t o want t o be co- counsel . I t hi nk t hat
15 unf or t unat el y what he' s done, has shown over t i me t hat
16 he cannot act as co- counsel wi t hout bei ng anyt hi ng
17 ot her t han di sr upt i ve t o t he pr oceedi ngs.
18 So i t ' s my posi t i on you have t he di scr et i on,
19 i t ' s a di scr et i onar y cal l on your par t . I t ' s our
20 posi t i on, as I ' ve ar t i cul at ed and I t hi nk as we' ve
21 st at ed i n t he mot i on, t hat you shoul d not exer ci se
22 t hat di scr et i on and you shoul d gi ve hi mt he choi ce of
23 r epr esent i ng hi msel f pur suant t o Far et t a or pr oceedi ng
24 wi t h assi gned counsel .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 26
1 THE COURT: Wel l , I can gi ve hi ma choi ce.
2 We st i l l have t o do a Far et t a canvas.
3 MR. LESLI E: That ' s what I meant t o say, yes.
4 And he may or may not be qual i f i ed under Far et t a, I
5 l eave t hat t o t he cour t .
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 Mr . Coughl i n, I ' mgoi ng t o al l ow you br i ef l y
8 t o r espond and I mean ver y br i ef l y so.
9 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , your Honor .
10 I bel i eve i t ' s t el l i ng t he way Mr . Young
11 pr esent ed i t , I bel i eve i t ' s t he Lat en case her e as
12 bi ndi ng mandat or y aut hor i t y t o t hi s cour t . I bel i eve
13 t hat , i n some r egar d, i s ski r t i ng on t he edge of bei ng
14 i naccur at e and pr esent i ng t he cour t somet hi ng ot her
15 t han t he case. I bel i eve i t i s di scr et i onar y t o t hi s
16 cour t and i t ' s not an absol ut e br i ght l i ne r ul e t hat
17 i t ' s not per mi ssi bl e under any ci r cumst ances.
18 Fur t her , I bel i eve t he publ i c def ender and
19 t he Di st r i ct At t or ney I ' l l r espect f ul l y submi t ar e
20 conf usi ng t hat whi ch i s i nconveni ent t o t hemsel ves
21 wi t h bei ng t hat whi ch i s pr ej udi ci al t o t he
22 admi ni st r at i on of j ust i ce. I t hi nk t he ul t i mat e
23 i nqui r y at t he end of t he day i s f ai r ness not t hat
24 whi ch i s conveni ent t o Mr . Lesl i e or Mr . Young.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 27
1 THE COURT: I ' mpr epar ed t o r ul e at t hi s
2 t i me.
3 Based on t he ent i r e r ecor d i n t hi s case, si r ,
4 I do f i nd, based on t he pl eadi ngs you have f i l ed, t hat
5 you mi x ci vi l wi t h cr i mi nal l aw. You have
6 demonst r at ed some ser i ous l ack of knowl edge i n t he
7 ar ea of cr i mi nal l aw, and I amconcer ned whet her I
8 have di scr et i on or not t hat al l owi ng you t o pr oceed as
9 co- counsel i n t hi s case woul d not onl y be di sr upt i ve
10 t o t he pr oceedi ngs but woul d be i nj ur i ous t o your
11 r epr esent at i on meani ng I bel i eve t hat i f you do not
12 have compet ent counsel r epr esent i ng you, you ar e
13 l i kel y t o make a ser i ous mi st ake i n j udgment i n t hi s
14 case t o your det r i ment and t her ef or e, I ' mgoi ng t o
15 deny t he mot i on t o you of appoi nt ed as co- counsel .
16 However , i f you i nsi st , I wi l l go f or war d and
17 conduct a Far et t a canvas but t hi s i s t he l ast
18 oppor t uni t y you have and i f af t er doi ng t he Far et t a
19 canvas I f i nd t hat you ar e compet ent t o r epr esent
20 your sel f , I wi l l al l ow you t o do so but t hat i s t he
21 ext ent of what I ' mgoi ng t o do. So you need t o t el l
22 me now.
23 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , your Honor , and
24 I ' l l j ust say r espect f ul l y, I hear what you' r e sayi ng,
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 28
1 your Honor , but I woul d l i ke t o pr oceed as my own
2 counsel wi t h j ust t he pr esent at i on t o t he cour t t hat
3 t hi s cour t sees what ' s bef or e i t but i t doesn' t see
4 what happens i n cl osed door s wi t h at t or ney and cl i ent
5 and i n t hat r egar d, what does happen i s par t of what ' s
6 f or mi ng t he basi s f or my deci si on t o sel f r epr esent .
7 I mean no di sr espect t o t he cour t gi ven t he
8 war ni ng you j ust gave me. I wi l l heed i t car ef ul l y.
9 I cer t ai nl y don' t want t o go t o j ai l agai n f or
10 cont empt , your Honor , and i t ' s my i nt ent t o pr esent
11 mysel f pr of essi onal l y her e t oday.
12 THE COURT: So I ' mnot cl ear what you' r e
13 sayi ng.
14 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , I woul d l i ke t o - - i f
15 t he choi ces ar e - - i f I onl y have t wo br i ght - l i ne
16 choi ces, have Mr . Lesl i e be my counsel or pr oceed
17 af t er a Far et t a canvas as my own counsel , I wi l l t ake
18 t he l at t er and pr oceed as my own counsel .
19 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , on t hat poi nt , i f I
20 may, I woul d go back t o what I sai d Monday t hat I
21 don' t bel i eve I ' mt he i ssue. I bel i eve any assi gned
22 at t or ney i s t he i ssue and - -
23 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t bel i eve you ar e an
24 i ssue ei t her .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 29
1 MR. LESLI E: I under st and.
2 Mr . Coughl i n - - wel l , based on t he cont i nui ng
3 al l egat i ons he has agai nst me and i n not so many wor ds
4 but basi cal l y sayi ng t hat t her e' s a conf l i ct of
5 i nt er est , I have a Memor andumOf Law t hat I pr epar ed
6 and I wonder i f t he cour t woul d wi sh t o r ecei ve t hat
7 at t hi s t i me?
8 THE COURT: That woul d be f i ne. I amgoi ng
9 t o I bel i eve under t he ci r cumst ances at l east conduct
10 t he Far et t a canvas and make a det er mi nat i on, do you
11 want t o pr esent t hat t o me now or ?
12 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t hi s may hel p, I ' m
13 goi ng t o be obj ect i ng t o hi mr epr esent i ng hi msel f .
14 THE COURT: You can do t hat but I st i l l t hi nk
15 he' s ent i t l ed t o have a Far et t a canvas.
16 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , t hat ' s f i ne, bef or e you
17 r ul e, I want t o be hear d.
18 THE COURT: Oh, yes, absol ut el y. I j ust want
19 t o make sur e t hat we have ever yt hi ng t hat ' s r equi r ed.
20 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , you know, t he r eason I
21 woul d f i l e t he mot i on i s basi cal l y i t ' s a Memor andum
22 Of Law, i t ' s not a mot i on, i t ' s a Memor andumof Law
23 and i t si mpl y set s f or t h i n obj ect i ve f ashi on some
24 l egal aut hor i t i es t hat t he cour t shoul d at l east
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 30
1 consi der .
2 THE COURT: Then I wi l l consi der t hemnow.
3 Has your cl i ent r ecei ved a copy of t hat ?
4 MR. LESLI E: I ' mpr ovi di ng hi ma copy.
5 THE DEFENDANT: And your Honor , j ust i n t hat
6 same r egar d, t he document I submi t t ed t o t he cour t
7 t hi s mor ni ng, I woul d ask t hat i t be consi der ed as a
8 memor andumsi mi l ar .
9 THE COURT: I n f ai r ness of what ' s been sai d,
10 i n f act , I ' ve al r eady consi der ed because I di dn' t
11 r eal i ze t hat i t had been submi t t ed by you so I can' t
12 wi pe i t out of my mi nd - -
13 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , he' s been deni ed
14 co- counsel pr i vi l ege.
15 MR. LESLI E: And, your Honor , t he i mpor t t he
16 Memor andumOf Law I ' ve j ust pr ovi ded and I ' d ask t hat
17 i t be put i nt o t he cour t ' s f i l e basi cal l y what ' s
18 st at ed on page one. I f t he def endant - - i f any
19 def endant , not Mr . Coughl i n, but i f any def endant
20 asser t s a conf l i ct of i nt er est bet ween hi msel f or
21 her sel f i n assi gned counsel , t he cour t shoul d i nqui r e
22 as t o t hr ee basi c pr ongs of anal ysi s. Number one,
23 what i s t he ext ent of t hat conf l i ct . Number t wo, t he
24 adequacy of t he t r i al cour t ' s i nqui r y i nt o t he
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 31
1 compl ai nt , i n ot her wor ds, a r evi ewi ng cour t woul d
2 l ook at di d t he t r i al cour t act ual l y t r y t o make some
3 r ecor d and det er mi ne i f t her e was i n f act a conf l i ct .
4 And number t hr ee, t he t i mel i ness of any mot i on or
5 asser t i on by t he def endant of such a conf l i ct of
6 i nt er est and t he ext ent of any i nconveni ence or del ay
7 t o t he pr oceedi ngs ar i si ng f r omt hat asser t i on by t he
8 def endant .
9 What t hi s basi cal l y says i s i f t he def endant
10 sor t of spr i ngs a conf l i ct of i nt er est upon t he
11 pr oceedi ngs at or shor t l y bef or e t r i al , t he t r i al
12 cour t shoul d not al l ow a def endant t o di sr upt t he
13 pr oceedi ngs or cause a del ay i n pr oceedi ngs. I f
14 t her e' s a conf l i ct and i f - - as t he memor andumgoes on
15 t o say, i f t he conf l i ct ar i ses basi cal l y or sol el y
16 f r omt he behavi or of t he def endant hi msel f and I j ust
17 - - I ant i ci pat ed t hat t hi s mi ght occur , I ant i ci pat ed
18 based on hi s asser t i ons of coer ci on t hi s past Monday
19 t hat he mi ght asser t a conf l i ct of i nt er est . I
20 bel i eve he has done so, and I pr ovi de t hi s memor andum
21 of Poi nt s and Aut hor i t i es si mpl y so t he cour t has some
22 l aw t o r ef er t o f or t he pr oposi t i on t hat a def endant
23 cannot cl ai mor cr eat e a conf l i ct and t her eby, di sr upt
24 or del ay t he pr oceedi ngs.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 My posi t i on i s t hat , as t he cour t has
2 obser ved, I woul d bor r ow t he cour t ' s obser vat i on, t hat
3 Mr . Coughl i n can be di f f i cul t at t i mes, and I woul d
4 not di sr upt t hat but I woul d asser t and assur e t he
5 cour t t hat I ' ve put a gr eat deal of ef f or t i nt o
6 pr epar i ng f or t oday' s t r i al . I ' mpr epar ed t o pr oceed
7 and i t ' s my i nt ent i on, not wi t hst andi ng hi s behavi or ,
8 t o do t he best I can f or hi m.
9 THE COURT: We' r e goi ng t o t ake a br i ef
10 r ecess. I di d not t hi nk t hi s was goi ng t o be
11 necessar y, but I ' mgoi ng t o get my Far et t a canvas.
12 Remai n seat ed.
13 ( A r ecess was t aken. )
14 THE COURT: We' r e back on t he r ecor d i n t he
15 case of Zachar y Coughl i n. Thi s i s Case Number
16 2011- 063341 and t hi s i s t he case char gi ng t he
17 def endant wi t h pet t y l ar ceny.
18 Dur i ng t he r ecess, I di d get a copy of my
19 Far et t a canvas whi ch I use i n cases such as t hi s and I
20 wi l l advi se you, si r , t hat Supr eme Cour t Rul e 253
21 appl i es, i t i s pr i mar i l y f or t he di st r i ct cour t ' s
22 i nqui r y. However , t her e have been r ul i ngs t hat t hat
23 same anal ysi s shoul d be made i n t he J ust i ce Cour t t o
24 det er mi ne whet her or not a per son i s abl e t o r epr esent
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 33
1 t hemsel ves i n a cr i mi nal mat t er .
2 I t i s my dut y t o i nf or myou f i r st of t he
3 danger s of sel f - r epr esent at i on and t hen t o make an
4 i nqui r y of you as t o your abi l i t y t o r epr esent
5 your sel f . I woul d f i r st advi se you t hat
6 sel f - r epr esent at i on i s of t en unwi se, and a def endant
7 may conduct a def ense t o hi s or her own det r i ment .
8 A pr oper per son def endant i s r esponsi bl e f or
9 knowi ng and compl yi ng wi t h t he same pr ocedur al r ul es
10 as l awyer s and cannot expect hel p f r omt he j udge
11 compl yi ng wi t h t hese pr ocedur al r ul es. The def endant
12 pr oceedi ng i n pr o per per son wi l l not be al l owed t o
13 compl ai n on appeal about t he compet ency or
14 ef f ect i veness of hi s or her r epr esent at i on.
15 The St at e, on t he ot her hand, wi l l be
16 r epr esent ed by an exper i enced, pr of essi onal counsel
17 who wi l l have t he advant age of ski l l , t r ai ni ng and
18 abi l i t y. The pr oper per son def endant i s not ent i t l ed
19 t o speci al l i br ar y pr i vi l eges whi ch r eal l y doesn' t
20 appl y i n t hi s case because you obvi ousl y have access
21 t o t he N R S and you do have your l apt op wi t h you and
22 have t hat abi l i t y t o do l egal r esear ch. Obvi ousl y, as
23 a l awyer , you' ve spent some consi der abl e t i me on t hi s.
24 So I don' t t hi nk t hat t hat par t i cul ar i ssue exi st s i n
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 34
1 t hi s case.
2 A def endant unf ami l i ar wi t h l egal pr ocedur es
3 may al l ow t he pr osecut or an advant age, may not make
4 ef f ect i ve use of l egal r i ght s and may make t act i cal
5 deci si ons t hat pr oduce uni nt ended consequences. The
6 ot her t hi ng i s t he ef f ect i veness of def ense may wel l
7 be di mi ni shed by def endant ' s own r ol e as an at t or ney
8 and accused - - ( i naudi bl e) and t hat ' s what t hat ' s al l
9 about .
10 Now, I ' mgoi ng t o ask you ser i es of quest i ons
11 t o det er mi ne your abi l i t y. Fi r st , what i s your age,
12 si r ?
13 THE DEFENDANT: I ' m35.
14 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , i f I may i nt er j ect ,
15 si nce t hese pr oceedi ngs ar e t aki ng some t i me, do you
16 mi nd i f Mr . Coughl i n si t s so he' s comf or t abl e?
17 THE COURT: No, I don' t mi nd. And what i s
18 your educat i on?
19 THE DEFENDANT: I have a Bachel or of Sci ence
20 i n Bi ol ogy and t hen a J ur i s Doct or at e obvi ousl y f r om
21 - - Bi ol ogy f r omU N R, J ur i s Doct or at e f r omU N L V.
22 Li cense cur r ent l y suspended i n Nevada.
23 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
24 And when di d you gr aduat e f r oml aw school ?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 35
1 THE DEFENDANT: I n 2001.
2 THE COURT: And wi t h t he except i on of your
3 suspensi on, you' ve been pr act i ci ng ever si nce?
4 THE DEFENDANT: No, si r . I passed t he
5 J ul y 2001 Bar exam. I was not l i censed f or somet i me
6 t her eaf t er t hough.
7 THE COURT: You wer e not l i censed even t hough
8 you passed t he Bar exam?
9 THE DEFENDANT: That ' s cor r ect . Ther e was a
10 per i od of negot i at i ons wi t h t he St at e Bar and
11 ul t i mat el y, I was l i censed t hough.
12 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
13 And you do have some pr i or exper i ence and
14 f ami l i ar i t y wi t h l egal pr oceedi ngs, however , how many
15 cr i mi nal cases have you act ual l y handl ed?
16 THE DEFENDANT: Thi s year has been a bi t of
17 an appr ent i ceshi p i n t hat r egar d. Pr et t y much al l my
18 own cr i mi nal cases, I ' ve wound up r epr esent i ng mysel f
19 on a number of t hem, somet i mes af t er a publ i c def ender
20 moved t o wi t hdr aw i n scenar i os not di ssi mi l ar t o t hi s
21 one.
22 I n t hat r egar d, I hope i t ' s cl ear t hat - - you
23 ment i oned a l evel of i ncompet ence by my ear l i er
24 f i l i ngs and I can' t di sagr ee wi t h t hat , your Honor but
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 ear l i er t oday, your Honor , I al most t ook i t as a
2 compl i ment when you sai d t hat t hi s f i l i ng t hat you got
3 t oday you di dn' t r eal i ze t hat I had done i t . I t ake
4 t hat t o mean maybe you t hought Mr . Lesl i e had done i t
5 whi ch t o me, woul d i ndi cat e some pr ogr ess i n my
6 r egar d.
7 But t o answer your quest i on i n a mor e
8 cur t ai l ed manner , not much cr i mi nal exper i ence besi des
9 what I ' ve gl eaned f r omdef endi ng mysel f i n t he var i ous
10 ar r est s I ' ve had t hi s year .
11 THE COURT: How many of t hose cases wer e you
12 successf ul on, si r ?
13 THE DEFENDANT: I don' t bel i eve I ' ve been
14 successf ul f r oma convi ct ed or not convi ct ed
15 st andpoi nt on any of t hem, al t hough t wo of t hemhave
16 gone t o ver di ct . Wel l , t her e was a summar y cont empt
17 one so I guess you coul d say t hat mor e t han t wo have
18 gone t o ver di ct .
19 THE COURT: And t hey' ve al l been agai nst you,
20 si r ?
21 THE DEFENDANT: They' ve been agai nst me, yes,
22 si r .
23 THE COURT: And what i s your cur r ent heal t h;
24 ar e you t aki ng any medi cat i on?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
2 THE COURT: And ar e any of t hose medi cat i ons
3 you t ake, do t hey af f ect your ment al acui t y or
4 abi l i t y?
5 THE DEFENDANT: I don' t bel i eve t hey
6 adver sel y af f ect i t .
7 THE COURT: Wel l , i n pr i or cour t pr oceedi ngs,
8 you had i ndi cat ed t o me t hat you di d need t o t ake some
9 t ype of dr ugs t hat t hey r ef used t o pr escr i be f or you
10 at t he Ment al Heal t h; i s t hat cor r ect ?
11 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , t hey r ef used t o al l ow
12 me t o be a par t of t he pr ogr ami f I cont i nued al ong
13 t hat t r eat ment r egi ment as admi ni st er ed by my cur r ent
14 physi ci an, my l ong- t i me physi ci an.
15 THE COURT: And wi t hout get t i ng i nt o
16 speci f i cs about t hat medi cat i on, t hat medi cat i on i s
17 f or t r eat ment of ment al i ssues?
18 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
19 THE COURT: And you - -
20 THE DEFENDANT: But I woul d i nt er j ect , si r , I
21 f eel a bi t unf ai r i n sayi ng t hi s but not t o di spar age
22 anyone wi t h any of t hese i ssues but t her e' s no Axi s I V
23 di agnosi s, or schi zophr eni a, bi pol ar . Ther e' s not hi ng
24 i n t hat r egar d i n pl ay her e.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 38
1 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
2 And i s t her e any ment al heal t h hi st or y i n
3 your f ami l y, si r , i n your di r ect f ami l y, mot her ,
4 f at her , br ot her , si st er ?
5 THE DEFENDANT: I woul d j ust say gi ven my
6 exper i ences of havi ng t he publ i c def ender ' s announce
7 my medi cat i ons i nt o t he open r ecor d i n vi ol at i on of
8 HI PPA - -
9 THE COURT: I ' ve not seen your medi cat i ons.
10 THE DEFENDANT: But t hey wer e i n t he Di st r i ct
11 Cour t . Mr . Dogan made a mi st ake i n t hat r egar d.
12 I woul d j ust say I ' mhyper sensi t i ve t o ot her
13 peopl e' s pr i vacy and t hat ' s pr i vacy Four t h Amendment
14 Ri ght s ar e at i ssue. I woul d j ust say - -
15 r espect f ul l y, your Honor , I f eel a bi t uncomf or t abl e
16 di vul gi ng t o anybody my f ami l y' s heal t h hi st or y.
17 THE COURT: Okay. No pr obl em.
18 Now, have you been t hr eat ened or coer ced i n
19 any way t o wai ve your at t or ney; you' r e r i ght t o an
20 at t or ney r at her ?
21 THE DEFENDANT: That ' s a - - i f I can j ust ask
22 f or some cl ar i f i cat i on, your Honor . I f I say, " Yes,
23 does t hat mean t hat I ' mobl i gat ed t o per si st wi t h Mr .
24 Lesl i e as my at t or ney?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 39
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 I wi l l t el l you t hi s now, I haven' t even
3 det er mi ned yet whet her I ' mgoi ng t o gr ant you any
4 r equest t o r epr esent your sel f , but Mr . Lesl i e i s st i l l
5 your at t or ney at t hi s poi nt and wi l l cont i nue t o be
6 your at t or ney unl ess I subst i t ut e you f or hi m.
7 My quest i on i s: And t hi s i s per haps
8 di f f er ent t han you per cei ve but i f someone t hr eat ened
9 you and sai d you cannot have Mr . Lesl i e i f you want t o
10 pr oceed i n t hi s case, you woul d have t o r epr esent
11 your sel f ?
12 THE DEFENDANT: I t hi nk r easonabl e mi nds
13 coul d di f f er i n t hat r egar d but I do t hi nk r easonabl e
14 peopl e mi ght say, " No. "
15 I have not been t hr eat ened per se or coer ced
16 out of pr oceedi ng wi t h Mr . Lesl i e as my counsel .
17 Ther e mi ght be some mor e poi nt s t o t he ext ent of amI
18 r eal l y get t i ng t he 6t h Amendment f ul f i l l ed her e, no
19 di sr espect t o Mr . Lesl i e or t o i mpune hi s char act er
20 but j ust - -
21 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , you wi l l have t hat
22 r i ght i f you ar e convi ct ed t o chal l enge at a l at er
23 poi nt i n t i me t hr ough post convi ct i on r el i ef .
24 At t hi s poi nt , I do and have f ound t hat Mr .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 40
1 Lesl i e i s compet ent counsel and one of t he best publ i c
2 def ender ' s we have so - - and best cr i mi nal def ense
3 at t or neys we have f or t hat mat t er . So t o t he ext ent
4 t hat you bel i eve t hat he i s not as good as you, t hat ' s
5 your bel i ef ; al l r i ght ?
6 THE DEFENDANT: And t hat ' s not been my
7 r epr esent at i ons. Thi s cour t has never been a mat t er
8 of me compet i ng wi t h Mr . Lesl i e f or over al l
9 pr of essi onal compet ence and a gener al sense. I t ' s
10 been a mat t er of i n t hi s speci f i c case, gi ven t he
11 par t i cul ar i t i es of mysel f as a def endant and Mr .
12 Lesl i e' s posi t i on wi t hi n t he Publ i c Def ender ' s Of f i ce
13 and i t s r el at i onshi p t o t he Di st r i ct At t or ney' s
14 of f i ce, what ar r angement ul t i mat el y wi l l al l ow f or me
15 t o most zeal ousl y - - t o have my def ense most zeal ousl y
16 advocat ed on my behal f .
17 I woul d submi t t o t hi s cour t t hat I wi sh t o
18 t ake advant age of Mr . Lesl i e' s acumen i n a co- counsel
19 ar r angement , t hat ' s been r ul ed on, i t ' s not avai l abl e
20 so I ' ml ef t bet ween t he choi ces of pr oceedi ng pr o se,
21 r epr esent i ng mysel f or havi ng Mr . Lesl i e r epr esent me.
22 I mean no di sr espect t o Mr . Lesl i e, t he cour t or t he
23 Di st r i ct At t or ney' s Of f i ce. I ' ve hear d your war ni ngs
24 t oday, si r but - -
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1 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
2 And I have r ul ed on t hat , si r , so I ' mgoi ng
3 t o - - and I under st and you consi der t hat t o be
4 coer ci on. However , t he ot her i ssue of you do r eal i ze
5 t hat you have t he r i ght t o r epr esent at i on at no cost
6 i f you ar e unabl e t o pay because we have appoi nt ed
7 mul t i pl e counsel t o r epr esent you.
8 The ot her i ssue do you under st and t he
9 el ement s of t he cr i me t hat you' r e char ged wi t h. I
10 t hi nk you demonst r at ed some under st andi ng of t he
11 el ement s based on your mot i on f or summar y j udgment but
12 - -
13 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , agai n, I ' mgoi ng t o
14 obj ect t o any r el i ance on t hat document .
15 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . Then I wi l l not r el y
16 on i t , si r . I wi l l ask you what i s your under st andi ng
17 and on Count I of what t he el ement s of pet t y l ar ceny
18 ar e pur suant t o Washoe Count y Code 53. 160?
19 THE DEFENDANT: I ' msor r y, your Honor , may I
20 j ust qui ckl y conf er wi t h my counsel ?
21 THE COURT: You may.
22 MR. LESLI E: Mr . Coughl i n, r i ght now we' r e
23 doi ng t he Far et t a canvas.
24 THE COURT: Si r - -
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 42
1 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , Mr . Coughl i n has
2 ver bal i zed t o me i s t hat hi s concer n i s t hat he does
3 t hi nk t hat you ar e per mi t t ed t o consi der hi s pr et r i al
4 br i ef or mot i on f or summar y j udgment onl y f or t he
5 pur pose of assi st i ng you i n det er mi ni ng whet her he
6 under st ands t he l aw and so f or t h pur suant t o t he
7 Far et t a canvas, but I woul d agr ee t hat we have yet t o
8 det er mi ne i f t hat mot i on i s goi ng t o be st r i cken as
9 f ugi t i ve.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 What I ' mgoi ng t o do I ' mnot goi ng t o r el y on
12 t hat document . I ' maski ng you because t hat ' s what I ' m
13 r equi r ed t o do, do you have copy of t he amended
14 cr i mi nal compl ai nt , si r ?
15 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , your Honor , and I
16 was j ust aski ng Mr . Lesl i e t o pr of er t o t he cour t
17 si mi l ar t o t he Memor andumOf Law t hat he di d wi t h t he
18 conf l i ct , but I do have a copy of t hi s Memor andumOf
19 Law t hat he submi t t ed t oday.
20 I do have a copy of t he cr i mi nal compl ai nt ,
21 your Honor , and t o get back t o your quest i on you asked
22 me I do under st and t he el ement s of t he char ge - -
23 THE COURT: On Count I , pet t y l ar ceny, a
24 mi sdemeanor , what i s your under st andi ng of what t he
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 43
1 el ement s of t hat char ge ar e t hat t he St at e needs t o
2 pr ove i n or der t o convi ct you of t he cr i me?
3 THE DEFENDANT: My under st andi ng, your Honor ,
4 i s t hat Mr . Young' s compl ai nt and hi s amended
5 compl ai nt speci f i ed he was pur sui ng pet t y l ar ceny
6 under t he Washoe Count y Code 53. 160 and among t hose
7 el ement s, t her e i s not an i nt ent r equi r ement whi ch
8 di f f er s f r omt he N R S ver si on of t he pet t y l ar ceny.
9 Fur t her , wi t hi n t he Washoe Count y Code, t her e
10 i s not a cor ol l ar y t o NRS- 205. 0832 wher ei n l ost or
11 mi sl ai d pr oper t y i s i ncl uded amongst t he def i ni t i ons
12 of what i s consi der ed t hef t .
13 THE COURT: But I don' t see t hat he' s char ged
14 you wi t h t aki ng mi sl ai d pr oper t y.
15 THE DEFENDANT: I agr ee, your Honor , and I
16 t hi nk t hat ' s par t i cul ar l y cl ear wher e Mr . Young chose
17 t o pr oceed under t he Washoe Count y Code i nst ead of
18 pr obabl y t o benef i t f r omt he l ack of an i nt ent el ement
19 f or whi ch he' d have t o pr ove, i nst ead of t he NRS. I f
20 he had pr oceeded under t he NRS ver si on of pet t y
21 l ar ceny, he woul d have benef i t ed f r omt he def i ni t i on
22 of t hef t t her ei n whi ch i ncl udes l ost or mi sl ai d
23 pr oper t y and f ai l ur e - -
24 THE COURT: What I ' maski ng you i s under
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 44
1 Washoe Count y Code 53. 160, what ar e t he el ement s t hat
2 your under st andi ng t hat Mr . Young has t o pr ove?
3 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
4 My under st andi ng i s t hat under 53. 160, Mr .
5 Young must pr ove t hat one ever y per son who quot e " Once
6 st eal s, t akes and car r i es, l eaves or dr i ves away t he
7 per sonal goods or pr oper t y of anot her under t he val ue
8 of $250 at t hat t i me and per haps i t ' s been r ai sed,
9 commi t s pet l ar ceny and i s gui l t y of a mi sdemeanor . "
10 I ' l l j ust not e agai n qui ckl y t hat t her e' s no
11 i nt ent el ement pr esent t her ei n i n cont r ast t o t he N R
12 S ver si on of pet t y l ar ceny.
13 THE COURT: So i t ' s your under st andi ng t hat
14 i t - - he does not have t o pr ove any i nt ent ?
15 THE DEFENDANT: That i s a posi t i on I mi ght
16 t ake, your Honor . I ' mr ef er enci ng page 3 of 32 on my
17 Memor andumof Law f i l ed t hi s mor ni ng. On Page 4 - -
18 THE COURT: Wel l , I under st and. I ' mj ust
19 aski ng i t ' s your under st andi ng at t hi s t i me t hat as
20 t he compl ai nt i s dr af t ed, Mr . Young does not have t o
21 pr ove any i nt ent on your par t ?
22 THE DEFENDANT: I don' t wi sh t o wai ve my
23 abi l i t y t o make t he ar gument t hat he does, your Honor ,
24 i f I ' mper mi t t ed t o ki nd of hedge my bet s t her e.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 45
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 Now, l et ' s go on t o Count I I t her e. What i s
3 your under st andi ng of t he el ement s of t he of f ense t hat
4 i s beyond t he St at e, t he St at e needs t o pr ove wi t h
5 r espect t o possessi on of st ol en pr oper t y, a vi ol at i on
6 of NRS- 205. 275?
7 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , and I ' l l get t o
8 t hat but i f I coul d j ust qui ckl y f i ni sh on Count I and
9 j ust t o st at e f or t he r ecor d, my under st andi ng i s t hat
10 by pr oceedi ng under Washoe Count y Code, t hat pet t y
11 l ar ceny f ound i n t he WWCC, Mr . Young may not avai l
12 hi msel f of NRS 205. 08232 wher ei n act i ons whi ch
13 const i t ut e t hef t ar e def i ned i n t he NRS t o i ncl ude
14 under Subsect i on D wher e one comes i nt o cont r ol of
15 l ost , mi sl ai d or mi sdel i ver ed pr oper t y. To t hat
16 ext ent , Mr . Young wi l l be pr ecl uded f r omsuggest i ng
17 t hat i t ' s a vi ol at i on of Washoe Count y Code 53. 160
18 wher e t he def endant al l egedl y di d come i nt o cont r ol of
19 l ost , mi sl ai d or mi sdel i ver ed pr oper t y and i nst ead,
20 Mr . Young wi l l be f or ced t o pr oceed under a mor e
21 t ypi cal pet t y l ar ceny anal ysi s wher e i t ' s basi cal l y
22 someone went up and gr abbed somet hi ng f r omsomebody.
23 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
24 THE DEFENDANT: Sor r y, your Honor - -
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 46
1 THE COURT: What about Count I I , si r ?
2 THE DEFENDANT: Count I I , my under st andi ng of
3 i t i s pr obl emat i c i n t hat t he i ndi ct ment f ai l s t o
4 speci f y or set f or t h - -
5 THE COURT: Thi s i s not an i ndi ct ment .
6 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , I ' musi ng t hat mor e as
7 a t er mof ar t , your Honor , i n t hat t he compl ai nt I
8 bel i eve i s i nsuf f i ci ent on i t s f ace i n t hat i t doesn' t
9 say who Mr . Young f eel s t he pr oper t y was st ol en f r om,
10 who t he def endant r ecei ved i t f r omor bought i t f r om.
11 Mr . Young doesn' t make any sor t of i ndi cat i on wi t h any
12 l evel of speci f i ci t y or det ai l and i n t hat r egar d, I
13 bel i eve i t mi ght be appr opr i at e t o st r i ke t hat count
14 or gr ant a mot i on t o di smi ss i n t hat r egar d - -
15 THE COURT: Si r , t he quest i on i s what ar e t he
16 el ement s t hat Mr . Young st at es t hat he needs t o pr ove?
17 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , and I j ust br i ng
18 t hat up because whi l e I was goi ng t hr ough t hose
19 el ement s wi t h a f i ne t oot h comb and compar i ng t hemt o
20 what was al l eged i n t he compl ai nt , I not i ced t her e
21 wer en' t f act s t o suppor t sever al of t he el ement s t o
22 wi t - -
23 THE COURT: The quest i on i s not what ar e t he
24 f act s t hat ar e i n t he compl ai nt but what ar e t he
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 47
1 el ement s?
2 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , 205. 275 I deal wi t h
3 t hat on Page 22 of my memor andum, and t he el ement s ar e
4 of f enses i nvol vi ng st ol en pr oper t y, def i ni t i on
5 penal t y.
6 Okay. Subsect i on One, " A per son commi t s an
7 of f ense i nvol vi ng st ol en pr oper t y i f t he per son f or
8 hi s or her own gai n or t o pr event t he owner f r omagai n
9 possessi ng t he owner ' s pr oper t y buys, r ecei ves,
10 possesses or wi t hhol ds pr oper t y ( A) , knowi ng t hat i t
11 i s st ol en pr oper t y or ( B) under such ci r cumst ances as
12 shoul d have caused a r easonabl e per son t o know t hat i t
13 i s st ol en pr oper t y. "
14 So my under st andi ng i s t hat Mr . Young must t o
15 pr ove t hat one, t he pr oper t y i n quest i on, t he i Phone,
16 was st ol en. He must t o pr ove i t was st ol en by
17 somebody ot her t han me and he must t o pr ove t hat I
18 ei t her bought or r ecei ved i t f r omt hat per son.
19 THE COURT: Wher e do you r ead ot her t han use?
20 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , I t hi nk t hat ' s
21 i mpl i ci t , ot her wi se t her e' s a l evel of conf usi on as t o
22 why Mr . Young woul dn' t j ust pr oceed under a - -
23 THE COURT: Okay. Let ' s go on t o t he next
24 i ssue of - -
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 48
1 THE DEFENDANT: Why he woul dn' t j ust pr oceed
2 under a pet t y l ar ceny anal ysi s and how t hat i sn' t a
3 doubl e j eopar dy si t uat i on.
4 THE COURT: I woul d advi se t hat t he el ement s
5 of t he cr i me ar e di f f er ent and t her ef or e, i t ' s not
6 doubl e j eopar dy.
7 ( G) " When def endant ' s under st andi ng of
8 possi bl e penal t i es and puni shment s and t he t ot al
9 possi bl e sent ence t he def endant coul d r ecei ve. "
10 Coul d you t el l me what t he possi bl e
11 puni shment s ar e and t he t ot al possi bl e sent ence you
12 coul d r ecei ve, si r ?
13 THE DEFENDANT: My under st andi ng, your Honor ,
14 bei ng t hat t hi s i s a mi sdemeanor , i s t hat i t ' s
15 i ncar cer at i on f or a per i od of l ess t han si x mont hs and
16 a f i ne of no mor e t han $1, 000.
17 THE COURT: On whi ch count , on each count ?
18 THE DEFENDANT: Per haps on each count but
19 i t ' s not my under st andi ng t hat I can be convi ct ed of
20 bot h count s, i t ' s my under st andi ng t hat i t ' s ei t her
21 or .
22 THE COURT: So i t ' s your posi t i on t hat one of
23 t hese count s i s a l esser i ncl uded of f ense t han t he
24 ot her one?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 49
1 THE DEFENDANT: Ei t her t hat or t her e' s a
2 doubl e j eopar dy si t uat i on or t her e' s t he suf f i ci ency
3 of t he i ndi ct ment or t he compl ai nt i s such t hat Mr .
4 Young i s i n vi ol at i on of RPC 3. 8 and l acki ng pr obabl e
5 cause t o per si st wi t h one or bot h of t hese compl ai nt s.
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 Next i s your under st andi ng of pl ease and
8 def enses whi ch maybe avai l abl e. We' ve al r eady
9 di scussed t he opt i on of a pl ea t he day bef or e
10 yest er day whi ch you decl i ned so you wer e f ami l i ar wi t h
11 t hat .
12 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , i t ' s my under st andi ng I
13 accept ed t hat pl ea, your Honor , or I at t empt ed t o and
14 r espect f ul l y I ' l l submi t t hat t hi s cour t appear ed t o
15 char act er i ze t hat di f f er ent l y t han as an accept ance of
16 t hat pl ea, but my posi t i on i s t hat I di d accept i t i n
17 a t i mel y manner .
18 THE COURT: Wel l , i t ' s my under st andi ng t hat
19 you f el t coer ced. And t hen your under st andi ng t hat
20 t he cour t may appoi nt st andby counsel , do you
21 under st and what st andby counsel i s?
22 THE DEFENDANT: I t hi nk I do but I must say,
23 your Honor , I ' mnot t hat sur e. I t seems t o me you
24 r ef er enced t hat t er mwi t h r egar d t o Mr . Lesl i e - -
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 50
1 THE COURT: Wel l , what i t i s, si r , i f t he
2 cour t f i nds dur i ng t he pr oceedi ng t he cour t t er mi nat es
3 your sel f - r epr esent at i on, t hen t hat appoi nt st andby
4 counsel t hen woul d r epr esent you f or t he bal ance of
5 t he pr oceedi ngs.
6 THE DEFENDANT: So i t ' s not a co- counsel ?
7 THE COURT: No.
8 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.
9 THE COURT: And i t ' s your f ur t her
10 under st andi ng t hat i f st andby counsel i s appoi nt ed,
11 st andby counsel i s not r equi r ed t o advi se or pr ovi de a
12 pr oper per son def endant wi t h l egal advi ce. So you
13 can' t have or you do not have t he r i ght t o have
14 counsel si t t i ng back t her e or si t t i ng next t o you
15 pr ovi di ng l egal counsel .
16 THE DEFENDANT: So i t ' s counsel , t hey j ust
17 don' t pr ovi de l egal advi ce?
18 THE COURT: They ar e counsel who ar e t her e i n
19 case t he cour t det er mi nes t hat you' r e not adequat el y
20 abl e t o r epr esent your sel f .
21 THE DEFENDANT: But t hey won' t pr ovi de me
22 l egal advi ce?
23 THE COURT: They wi l l not be r equi r ed t o do
24 so. And f ur t her , you have 30 days wi t hi n whi ch t o
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 51
1 f i l e an appeal f r oman ent r y of j udgment or
2 convi ct i on; do you know t hat ?
3 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , I di dn' t
4 under st and i t t o be t hat . I under st ood i t t o be t he
5 st andar ds set f or t h under NRS- 189. 1810 whi ch woul d be
6 10 days f r omr endi t i on of t he ent r y of t he or der .
7 I ' l l gl adl y t ake a l onger 30 days but gi ven t hat
8 f i l i ng of a not i ce of appeal j ur i sdi ct i on, I woul d
9 pr obabl y not t ake t he r i sk j ust i n case because bot h
10 of t he appeal s I f i l ed t hi s year , r espect i ng t he
11 cr i mi nal commi ssi ons I sust ai ned i n muni ci pal cour t
12 wer e subj ect t o mot i ons t o di smi ss based on t hat
13 10- day st andar d.
14 THE COURT: And t hat maybe i ncor r ect .
15 MR. LESLI E: I t hi nk he i s cor r ect . I t hi nk
16 i t i s 10 days f or a mi sdemeanor .
17 THE COURT: I do st and cor r ect ed because t hi s
18 i s because t hi s appl i cabl e - -
19 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , i f I coul d j ust
20 qui ckl y ask you ear l i er you ment i oned t he ext ent t o
21 whi ch I was conf usi ng ci vi l and cr i mi nal l aw ear l i er
22 and t hat ' s come up i n opposi ng t he mot i on t o di smi ss
23 my appeal s and how i s t i me cal cul at ed i f not by NRCP.
24 J udge El l i ot t , i n or der i ng i n one of my
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 52
1 opposi t i ons t o mot i on t o di smi ss quot ed i n RCP 6 A i n
2 t he cal cul at i on of days i n whi ch I had upon appeal ,
3 t hat ' s a ci vi l r ul e. I not i ced t hat I bel i eve i t ' s
4 t he Pi nanea case says t he Rul es Of Evi dence ar e
5 appl i cabl e t o cr i mi nal cases but t her e' s a not i ce of
6 deci si on t her ei n t hat says because NRCP was enact ed
7 af t er t hat deci si on, i t does not make NRCP appl i cabl e
8 t o cr i mi nal cases.
9 THE COURT: Si r , we have l ocal cour t r ul es.
10 Ther e ar e Nevada r ul es and Di st r i ct Cour t r ul es as
11 wel l t hat var y f r omcour t t o cour t . However , you ar e
12 cor r ect about t he appeal t i me. On t hat , I st and
13 cor r ect ed on. A r endi t i on of j udgment i s - -
14 ( i naudi bl e) t oday.
15 So as t o t he ot her r ul es, act ual l y t he
16 J ust i ce Cour t r ul es do not pr ovi de f or a t i me t o
17 r espond t o a br i ef . We have f ol l owed t he Di st r i ct
18 Cour t r ul es al l owi ng 10 days f r omt he f i l i ng of t he
19 mot i ons or t he opposi ng par t y t o r espond i n f i ve days
20 f or t he r epl y.
21 THE DEFENDANT: Wi t h a per i od of l ess t han 11
22 cal cul at ed i n j udi ci al days?
23 THE COURT: Cor r ect .
24 THE DEFENDANT: As set f or t h i n NRCP?
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 53
1 THE COURT: Not as set f or t h i n NRCP but i n
2 t he Di st r i ct Cour t r ul es whi ch i s di f f er ent .
3 THE DEFENDANT: Wi t h a comput at i on of t i me.
4 THE COURT: The Di st r i ct Cour t r ul es ar e
5 separ at e f r omt he NRCP' s but i n any event , we' r e not
6 get t i ng i nt o t hat r i ght now. I ' mt r yi ng t o quest i on
7 about t hese cr i mi nal pr oceedi ngs.
8 So at t hi s t i me bef or e I make any f i ndi ngs,
9 I ' mgoi ng t o al l ow counsel t o pr esent t hei r ar gument s
10 based on what you' ve sai d so f ar and t hen I wi l l make
11 a r ul i ng.
12 MR. ZACK: Your Honor , wi t h r espect t o t he
13 Far et t a canvas i t sel f , I don' t f r ankl y have a dog i n
14 t hat f i ght , t hat ' s somet hi ng t hat t he cour t has t o
15 concl ude whet her he' s compet ent enough and i nt el l i gent
16 wai vi ng hi s r i ght s. Her e' s my i ssue wi t h hi m
17 asser t i ng t hi s and her e' s what I woul d obj ect t o on
18 t he basi s of a coupl e of gr ounds.
19 Case l aw i s ver y cl ear goi ng back t o t he
20 Li on' s case 106 Nevada, 438, 1990 says quot e, " That
21 cr i mi nal def endant s have an unqual i f i ed r i ght t o
22 sel f - r epr esent at i on so l ong as t her e i s a vol unt ar i l y
23 and i nt el l i gent wai ver of t hei r r i ght t o counsel .
24 Al t hough t he const i t ut i onal r i ght of
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 54
1 sel f - r epr esent at i on i s gener al l y pr ot ect ed by t he
2 cour t s, t he cour t somet i mes per mi t s
3 sel f - r epr esent at i on t o be deni ed wher e one, t he
4 def endant ' s r equest f or sel f - r epr esent at i on i s
5 unt i mel y. Two, t he r equest i s equi vocal . Thr ee, t he
6 r equest i s made sol el y f or t he pur poses of del ay.
7 Four , t he def endant abuses t he r i ght of sel f
8 r epr esent at i on by di sr upt i ng t he j udi ci al pr ocess.
9 Fi ve, has si nce been st r uck down by t he Vi ni ci case or
10 si x, t he def endant i s i ncompet ent t o vol unt ar i l y and
11 i nt el l i gent l y wai ve hi s or her r i ght t o counsel .
12 We have i n t he Li on' s case t he r equest f or
13 sel f - r epr esent at i on was made t he day of t r i al t he same
14 as her e, and t he cour t di d not al l ow t hat i n l ar ge
15 par t because of t he unt i mel i ness of t hat and t hat was
16 af f i r med on appeal . You l ook at cases t hat f ol l ow
17 t hat , t he Tanksl ey case, T A N K S L E Y, 113 Nevada,
18 997 t al ks about t hose same t hi ngs t hat wer e set f or t h
19 i n Li ons and t hen goes on, " A def endant may be deni ed
20 hi s r i ght of sel f - r epr esent at i on i f he or she i s
21 unabl e or unwi l l i ng t o abi de by a r ul es of cour t r oom
22 pr ocedur e. A def endant ' s r i ght t o sel f - r epr esent at i on
23 does not al l ow hi mt o engage i n uncont r ol l abl e or
24 di sr upt i ve behavi or i n t he cour t r oom. I n det er mi ni ng
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 55
1 di sr upt i on, t he def endant ' s pr et r i al act i vi t y i s
2 r el evant i f i t ' s af f or ds a st r ong i ndi cat i on t hat t he
3 def endant wi l l di sr upt t he pr oceedi ngs i n t he
4 cour t r oom. "
5 We have Mr . Coughl i n, on t he mor ni ng of t r i al
6 af t er t hi s has been goi ng on f or a year , count l ess
7 set s, t her e' s been ei ght or ni ne t her eabout s set t i ngs
8 f or t hi s. Sever al t i mes i t ' s been set f or t r i al . The
9 St at e' s wi t nesses have been her e. I know t her e' s been
10 t i mes wher e def ense wi t nesses have been her e and now
11 t he mor ni ng of t r i al when we' r e al l set t o go, i t ' s a
12 done deal , he' s movi ng t o r epr esent hi msel f , t hat i s
13 unt i mel y and you can l ook at hi s past behavi or . The
14 quot e I use i n quot es t he pur por t ed f i l i ngs t hat he
15 has made ei t her by sendi ng t o me i n per son or t o you
16 agai n by e- mai l and t he l i ke wher e t hey' r e j ust
17 i ncoher ent and t hey make no sense. Whi l e t hat
18 cer t ai nl y can be consi der ed wi t h r espect t o your
19 ul t i mat e deci si on whet her he i s i nt el l i gent l y,
20 knowi ngl y and vol unt ar i l y wai vi ng hi s r i ght t o
21 counsel , you can al so consi der t hat and t he pr ocess
22 i t ' s t aken t o see how he wi l l act i n t hi s r egar d.
23 So whet her he' s al so maki ng t hi s f or pur poses
24 of del ay i s yet t o be seen, but we have a t r i al set
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 56
1 t oday, i t ' s been set and t he St at e cer t ai nl y i nt ends
2 on goi ng f or war d wi t h t he t r i al . So I woul d obj ect t o
3 hi mr epr esent i ng hi msel f , separ at e and apar t f r omt he
4 Far et t a canvas based on t he gr ounds t hat i t ' s
5 unt i mel y, based on hi s pr et r i al act i vi t i es t hat
6 t her e' s a showi ng t hat he coul d be di sr upt i ve, and I ' m
7 al so obj ect i ng on t he basi s t hat t hi s coul d be mer el y
8 f or t he pur poses of del ay and i n bad f ai t h and not i n
9 good f ai t h.
10 Wi t h r espect t o t he canvas i t sel f agai n
11 t hat ' s your Honor ' s cal l . I ' mobj ect i ng even t o get
12 t o t her e but I di d not e t her e wer e sever al t hi ngs Mr .
13 Coughl i n sai d. One i s wi t h r espect t o he has a bi g
14 beef wi t h t he i nt ent el ement as set f or t h i n Count I ,
15 t hat i s - - t hat wor d i s used i n Count I . So f or hi m
16 t o make t hi s bi g ar gument t hat I ' mt r yi ng t o ski r t
17 t hi s i nt ent el ement , Count I of t he amended compl ai nt
18 f i ni shes wi t h t he i nt ent t o per manent l y depr i ve t he
19 owner t her eof .
20 So he' s mi ssi ng t he f act t hat t her e i s an
21 i nt ent el ement . He' s wr ong i n t hat r egar d, and he' s
22 wr ong wi t h r espect t o some of t he ot her t hi ngs wi t h
23 r espect t o Count I I . He' s ci t i ng t he Nevada Rul es of
24 Ci vi l Pr ocedur e whi ch obvi ousl y has no bear i ng her e.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 57
1 He can' t i n my r espect f ul opi ni on cannot conci sel y and
2 adequat el y r espond t o si mpl e quest i ons posed by your
3 Honor .
4 So I t hi nk t hose ar e al l t hi ngs your Honor
5 shoul d consi der when det er mi ni ng whet her or not he' s
6 compet ent i n wai vi ng hi s r i ght t o counsel , but I ' m
7 sayi ng we shoul dn' t even get t o t hat poi nt .
8 The ot her t hi ng, your Honor , hi s st at ement s
9 t hat , " Wel l , i f i t ' s ei t her Mr . Lesl i e or me, I want
10 me. " I t maybe appr opr i at e, your Honor , f or you t o do
11 a cl osed hear i ng out si de of my pr esence. I ' l l have
12 al l of my wi t nesses r emoved f r omt he cour t r oombecause
13 i f t her e' s a br eakdown i n t he r el at i onshi p t hat i s so
14 bad t hat i t ' s i r r econci l abl e, t hen t hat ' s somet hi ng
15 t hat t he cour t shoul d l ook at but i f i t ' s j ust hi m
16 si mpl y bei ng di sr upt i ve and di st ur bed or not di st ur bed
17 but di f f i cul t and Mr . Lesl i e sayi ng, " Hey, I can go
18 f or war d. I ' mr eady t o go, " t hen t hat ' s not a basi s t o
19 f or mt hat .
20 So I ' l l l eave t hat t o t he cour t ' s deci si on i f
21 you want t o do t hat but agai n, I ' mobj ect i ng on t he
22 f r ont end t hat he shoul d even be al l owed t o r epr esent
23 hi msel f . The poi nt s I made ar e si mpl y f or you t o
24 consi der i n your r ul i ng.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 58
1 THE COURT: Mr . Lesl i e?
2 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , si mi l ar t o Mr .
3 Zack' s posi t i on, I t hi nk t hat wi t h r egar d t o t he
4 Far et t a canvas, I t hi nk t hat i s a det er mi nat i on t hat
5 t he cour t makes i ndependent l y and on i t s own, but I
6 t hi nk t he cour t i s not pr event ed f r omseeki ng i nput of
7 counsel . You know, I woul d say t hat - -
8 THE COURT: I ' mnot sayi ng t hey have t o come
9 i n, you want ed i f you want ed t o so - -
10 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , my comment s bef or e wer e
11 wi t h r egar d t o co- counsel ar r angement , and my di st i nct
12 concer n about t he pr ospect of di sr upt i on of t he
13 pr oceedi ngs.
14 Wi t h r egar d t o t he separ at e i ssue of hi m
15 r epr esent i ng hi msel f , I do t hi nk I have l ess gr ound t o
16 comment and t hat i s mor e a det er mi nat i on f or t he cour t
17 t o make. I woul d say t hat some of what Mr . Coughl i n
18 has t o say does i n f act appear t o be val i d, l egal
19 ar gument . You know, I woul d not di scount ever yt hi ng
20 he has t o say i n t hat r egar d. But I do t hi nk t hat t he
21 cour t can make i t s det er mi nat i on based on t he Far et t a
22 canvas and based on t he over vi ew of t he i ssues as set
23 f or t h by t he D A.
24 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 59
1 Mr . Coughl i n?
2 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , j ust t o count er
3 t he l at ent ci t at i on, I bel i eve Whevy v Boar di ng, WH E
4 V Y pr ovi des a di scr et i onar y basi s f or t he cour t t o
5 gr ant a co- counsel ar r angement . I ' msor r y, i f t hat ' s
6 not what you asked me.
7 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I obj ect t o t hi s
8 ar gument , i t ' s al r eady been ci t ed whi ch al so I t hi nk
9 you can consi der i n r ul i ng on your deci si on whet her t o
10 l et hi mr epr esent hi msel f .
11 THE COURT: Wel l , I amgoi ng t o al l ow hi mt o
12 r espond t o your l at eness ar gument .
13 MR. YOUNG: That ' s f i ne. He st ar t ed ar gui ng
14 goi ng back t o co- counsel , t hat i ssue i s behi nd us.
15 THE DEFENDANT: So, your Honor , j ust t o
16 cl ar i f y, you j ust pr ompt ed me a moment ago t o r espond
17 t o Mr . Young' s l at eness ar gument wi t h r egar d t o my
18 mot i on?
19 THE COURT: I ' msayi ng I ' mal l owi ng you t o
20 r espond t o t he l at eness ar gument .
21 THE DEFENDANT: Lat ent or l at eness?
22 THE COURT: Lat eness of your mot i on, t he f act
23 t hat i t was act ual l y made t oday, t he day of t r i al .
24 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , I f i nd t hat t o be
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 60
1 much l i ke a l ot of t he t hi ngs t hat I ' ve hear d f r omMr .
2 Young t hr oughout t hi s cour se t o be f act ual l y
3 i naccur at e not based on act ual l aw.
4 The r ecor d r eveal s t hat I f i l ed a mot i on t o
5 appear as co- counsel mont hs ago I bel i eve i t was i n
6 Febr uar y. So f or Mr . Young - - and we f i l ed a r equest
7 f or submi ssi on and we' ve been wai t i ng f or over 90 days
8 t o hear back on t hat .
9 So f or - - gr ant ed, t her e was a t r i p t o Ment al
10 Heal t h Cour t i n t he i nt er i mand r easons f or t hi s cour t
11 per haps not t o i ssue, but f or Mr . Young t o pr of er t o
12 t he cour t t hat i t ' s onl y t oday t hat I ' mseeki ng t hi s
13 wi t hdr awal of counsel , t hat ' s j ust not compl yi ng wi t h
14 hi s dut y of candor t o t he t r i bunal .
15 I di dn' t ask t he cour t t o pr esent me wi t h
16 t hi s choi ce bet ween havi ng no i nput f r omMr . Lesl i e or
17 havi ng ul t i mat e cont r ol over my case. I di dn' t ask
18 f or t hat choi ce t o be put f or t h t o me t oday, i t was
19 put f or t h t o me t o t oday. I asked f or a co- counsel
20 ar r angement as t he docket r eveal s. So t o say - - I
21 guess t o be f ai r t o Mr . Young, maybe t oday he' s sayi ng
22 wel l i t ' s onl y t oday - -
23 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' mgoi ng t o put an end t o
24 t hi s. I amgoi ng t o r ul e on t he mer i t s of t he mot i on.
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 61
1 Al l r i ght . So anyt hi ng el se?
2 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , and I doubt t he
3 cour t want s t o t ake t he t i me but i f t he cour t woul d
4 j ust al l ow me t o say br oadl y I ' d l i ke t o pr eser ve f or
5 t he r ecor d and have an oppor t uni t y t o pr esent why I
6 f eel I ' ve been, wi t h al l due r espect t o Mr . Lesl i e,
7 deni ed my Si x Amendment Ri ght and i nef f ect i ve
8 assi st ance of counsel - -
9 THE COURT: I ' mnot goi ng t o do t hat , enough,
10 and I wi l l t el l you why because you have an absol ut e
11 r i ght t o do t hat l at er on t hr ough post convi ct i on
12 r el i ef , i f you bel i eve you have i nadequat e counsel .
13 I ' ve al r eady i ndi cat ed t hat I bel i eve you do have
14 adequat e counsel .
15 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , my under st andi ng
16 was I di d t hat t o pr eser ve t hat - -
17 THE COURT: Wai t a second, I want t o hear
18 f r omMr . Lesl i e.
19 MR. LESLI E: J ust i n t he i nt er est of I t hi nk
20 t hat t he r ul es of pr of essi onal r esponsi bi l i t y pl ace on
21 me t he obl i gat i on, when I bel i eve i t appr opr i at e, t o
22 come on appl i cabl e l aw i f I bel i eve t hat t her e' s some
23 i ssue of whet her t he cor r ect l aw has been st at ed.
24 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 62
1 Then bef or e we do, does t hi s i nvol ve
2 at t or ney- cl i ent communi cat i on?
3 MR. LESLI E: No, i t doesn' t .
4 Al l I want t o say i s I bel i eve t hat i t may be
5 t he case t hat t her e i s no post convi ct i on
6 ef f ect i veness of counsel avenue t o at t ack a
7 mi sdemeanor j udgment as t her e i s i n t he cases of
8 f el oni es, and I j ust want t o put t hat pot ent i al
9 cor r ect i on on t he r ecor d. Mr . - - t hat ' s t he
10 cor r ect i on I want ed t o st at e.
11 THE COURT: Wel l , t hat bei ng t he case, t hen I
12 wi l l t hen ask t hat he be excused f r omt he cour t r oomso
13 you and t he def endant can addr ess hi s concer n and we
14 can r esol ve i t r i ght now.
15 MR. YOUNG: Thank you. I ' l l do t hat i n j ust
16 one cl ear par t of t he i nqui r y by t he cour t because
17 t hi s i s what I woul d ask i s t hat you det er mi ne what
18 any sor t of conf l i ct bet ween Mr . Lesl i e and hi s cl i ent
19 i s and i f t her e' s such a compl et e br eakdown as t o
20 ef f ect t he ef f ect i ve r epr esent at i on as guar ant eed by
21 t he Const i t ut i on.
22 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
23 MR. LESLI E: And t he i nt ent i on of t hat
24 Memor andumOf Law I f i l ed was t o be candi d wi t h t he
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 63
1 cour t about appl i cabl e l aw i n t hat r egar d.
2 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
3 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, your Honor .
4 MR. YOUNG: Thank you, your Honor . I ' l l get
5 al l my wi t nesses out .
6 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , and I wi l l al l ow Mr .
7 Dogan t o st ay.
8 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , i f I coul d j ust
9 ent er my obj ect i on and at t empt t o i nvoke I don' t know
10 i f i t ' s t he r ul e of excl usi on but Mr . Dogan doesn' t
11 r epr esent me i n t hi s case and I f ound i n t he past
12 r espect f ul l y t hat t he publ i c def ender of t en ki nd of
13 gangs up on me and uses each ot her as wi t nesses t o
14 event s wher e i n par t i cul ar wi t h r egar d t o t hese l ast
15 t wo hear i ngs - -
16 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I ' l l make i t easy
17 f or Mr . Coughl i n and di sput e hi s i ncor r ect
18 al l egat i ons. Never t hel ess, I have no obj ect i on t o Mr .
19 Dogan - -
20
21 ( A r ecess was t aken. )
22
23
24
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 64
1 STATE OF NEVADA )
2 ) Ss.
3 COUNTY OF WASHOE )
4
5 I . GAI L R. WI LLSEY, a not ar y publ i c i n and
6 f or t he Count y of Washoe, St at e of Nevada, do her eby
7 cer t i f y:
8 That I was pr ovi ded a J AVS CD and t hat sai d
9 CD was t r anscr i bed by me, a Cer t i f i ed Shor t hand
10 Repor t er , i n t he mat t er ent i t l ed her ei n;
11 That sai d t r anscr i pt whi ch appear s
12 her ei nbef or e was t aken i n st enot ype not es by me f r om
13 t he CD and t her eaf t er t r anscr i bed i nt o t ypewr i t i ng as
14 her ei n appear s t o t he best of my knowl edge, ski l l and
15 abi l i t y and i s a t r ue r ecor d t her eof .
16
17
18 __________________________
19 GAI L R. WI LLSEY, CSR #359
20
21
22
23
24
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411 SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
Page 65
A
abide 54:21
abilities 20:7,8
ability 16:23
33:4,18,22
34:1137:4
44:2364:15
able 8:115:16
20:625:6
32:2450:20
absolute 21:1
22:2326:16
61:10
absolutely 24:6
29:18
abuse 25:10
abuses 54:7
accept 12:10
49:16
acceptance
49:15
accepted 49:13
access 33:20
accommodate
9:19
accomodation
9:18
accomplished
19:18
accused 34:8
act 11:2214:4
16:821:24
23:13,1724:7
25:1655:22
acting 22:18
actions 45:12
activities 56:5
activity 55:1
actual 60:3
acuity 37:3
acumen 14:18
40:18
address 4:105:4
5:248:1111:9
11:2312:24
24:1562:13
addressed 11:21
14:4
addressing 12:4
adequacy 30:24
adequate 61:14
adequately
50:1957:2
administered
37:13
administration
26:22
Administrator
23:24
admitted 5:23
advantage 5:15
33:1734:3
40:18
adversely 37:6
adversity 13:22
advice 16:15
50:12,17,22
advise 16:12
32:2033:5
48:450:11
advised 24:1
advising 11:7
16:13
advocated 40:16
affect 37:3,6
affirmed 54:16
affords 55:2
age 34:11
ago 59:1660:5
agree 7:325:9
42:743:15
agreed 8:13
allegations 29:3
63:18
alleged 46:20
allegedly 45:18
allow11:1815:5
15:2220:11
24:15,1626:7
27:2031:12
34:337:11
40:1453:9
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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