29 07 2013 Friends Of Long Rock Mexico Crossing Meeting with Cornwall Council Cornwall Council One Stop Shop,

St Clare Street, Penzance

Present: Friends Of Long Rock Mexico Crossing Carolyn Trevivian (Committee), Philippa Penney, Ian Holmes, David Tarr, Rob Nance (Chair), Mike Bott (Committee), Nick Tregenza (Vice-Chair), Helen Eynon (Secretary), Brian Monkton, Monica Richards Cornwall Council Peter Marsh (Interim Director - Environment), Jeremy Edwards (Highways Manager), Vanessa Davis (Legal Dept) PM Introduced himself & invited everybody to do the same. MR I have been using the foot crossing for 60 years with no problems. BM Ive been in Long Rock for 57 years & first used the crossing before I moved to Long Rock in 1936 with my father. I was a train driver for 46 years & never had any problems & there were 3 times as many trains back then. PM Ive read a great deal about this issue, Ive been to the site, Ive looked at petitions, reports & submissions. Im pleased to listen to points of emphasis, such as Brian just made. I know you have raised questions, perhaps we can discuss them first. We can talk about legality first. We are not here to debate. I have a strict legal test that I have to follow in order to come to my decision. If we can explain the legal position first suggest Vanessa to speak re this. Vanessa We made a temporary order which ran out. We made an error: we didnt get an extension & there was a gap of 4 days in which the crossing was closed without legal cover. We then issued an emergency notice which closed the crossing for 21 days & we followed this with a closure order. MB You cant do another 6 months according to s15(8) of the Act. Vanessa We checked with the Secretary of State (SoS), they said it was valid by email. MB Will you give us a copy? Vanessa I havent got it. [Vanessa looked at PM who didnt have copy.] JE I have a copy.

Discussion of who can look at it PM asked JE to read it out. JE Its from Ray Oldfield at the DfT on 15 July. It states that our closure is valid. Because the SoSs permission for an extension was not requested or refused, the 3 month gap [in s15(6)] does not apply. The Council can therefore make a fresh order within 3 months. MB That's nonsense. That should never have happened. PM Theres no point in debating this. MB Are you saying you can have a second closure even though s15(8) says you cant? Vanessa That's what we have been advised. MB to Vanessa Did they [JE & PM] ask for your advice back in June? Vanessa I really can't remember. MB If they asked, what would you have said? Vanessa I don't know. MB We are on the verge of going to Magistrates Court. We have given you an extra month already. RN You could act. MB When did you ask The SoS? Vanessa We asked for permission last week. NT We dont know anyone in Long Rock who supports this. What is this exact test? Weve asked you twice for it. Some Councils like Leicestershire have set out very clearly what they consider in evaluating closures but CC has said nothing. PM Ive read evidence on both sides, both well put together. MB We havent finished about the temporary closure order yet. Neither of you (indicating PM & Vanessa) has said anything to convince me this is legally sound. The government inspector will be concerned if he sees that you have been flouting the law & manipulating it. Vanessa We believe its a valid order. We will give you the contact details for Ray Oldfield.

MB When can we expect this? Vanessa This week, Im sure. MB Needs to be tomorrow. PM By the end of the week. MB Ask JE to give us the email now. PM Not now. We need to check if theres any privileged information. Will be the end of the week. MB We will need to go away & consider all this. We need a letter explaining why you think its legally valid. Vanessa & PM agreed to this. NT What do you consider the legal test to be? PM You set out what the Act says. NT So we say that this includes safety off the railway? Do you agree? PM I will be considering what it says in the Act. I will take advice. NT Youll be taking advice at this stage? This has been going on since 2011. Youve had 3 years. Ridiculous. PM I personally havent been aware of it for that long. NT Users are exposed to greater dangers off the railway. I cant believe that you do not know. MB So Vanessa, what advice will you give him? Vanessa [Muttered something which didn't answer the question.] NT You are stonewalling. Vanessa There is a process. Consultations. Mr Marsh has been looking carefully at everything. Its a difficult decision. We are aware of the timescale. There is a Council timescale too, Council rules allow 6 months from application to decision. If an order is made it goes to The SoS. We will be as expedient as we can. NT [Asked about the off-track risks.]

Vanessa We take it that a point of emphasis is the different routes. NT Can we ask Ian to describe having to use the Marazion road bridge route? IH Id been using the crossing for 8 years. I walked the dog on the evening that Jan died. I used the crossing for the next 14 months. Then it suddenly got called dangerous. So then I had to use the road. Ive had to climb into the hedge on many occasions. Fast cars. Daily basis. I encounter 7+ near misses every day. Up to 10. Theres a blind bend. The junction is 48 feet wide. I have to cross the junction twice. The railway crossing is 1.6 metres wide. The road takes longer to cross 2 lanes of traffic, not one single track. So much traffic, but theres less than 4 trains an hour. Bizarre. Also now theyve put in a dropped kerb 2.5 seconds from the blind bend. Vanessa So your experience is that this route is ... HE My teenage son works in Marazion & has to walk that route in the dark. NT So you have heard that one person has more near misses in one day than occur on the crossing in a year & many others are using the route. Youd be slaughtered for taking an irresponsible decision. RN to PM Did you walk the route? PM No, I went on my bike [motorbike]. NT Did you get an independent assessment on the risk of the road? JE We looked at the accident data. NT That was before people were displaced onto the road, so its hardly relevant. Vanessa So you are saying that the alternative routes are less safe? IH Busy road generally, no lights, no pavement, no room for pavement, lots of left hand drives visiting from Europe who keep in tight at the bend. NT Weve been telling you for months. RN introduced MR MR I swim every day. I use the vehicle crossing. Cars sweep in. Its dangerous. I wouldnt take a pram or pushchair there. You have to wait when the barriers are down with the cars revving up & all the fumes. A child could get hurt soon. Theres not enough room for cars & pedestrians. Vanessa This is at the level crossing?

PP Yes, theres no pavement & theres no room for a pavement. HE My mother is 84 & she wont go there [coast path] any more, shes too scared of the traffic. PP There are a lot of old people here who say that. BM Im all for stopping the trains at Truro. MB So to add more to our submission, this impacts more on the elderly, the disabled, wheelchair users & the young. Vanessa So you meanHE Long Rock is a popular choice as a place to live & visit among people with mobility issues as its very flat ground & the shop, pub & hotel all have disabled access, as does the Station House Pub just down the coast path towards Marazion. There is an old peoples home, Tolverth House, & a Brandon Trust supported-living house in the village & I know when a manager of a care home near Gulval, residents liked to visit & walk the route from the Station House to Long Rock. NT Plus there are often delays. Barrier usually down 10 minutes, but sometimes it is longer. In one incident in December it was down for 1 hour & 20 minutes. People stuck there [on the beach side] had to walk to Marazion & come back along the road in darkness. So some people end up jumping the barrier. This is criminalising people. I used to go over 3 times a day or more, take a cup of tea to the beach. Brilliant. Now its chains, wire fences & random visits from the police. MR This crossing is integral to our village. It will destroy the village, its spoilt things for everyone here. [*** something about other people dont know who said ***] NT Who are these other people? They are not Long Rock people. They are not fully aware of the effects. All you had to do with the Coroners letter was to offer a reasoned reply, instead you produced a knee-jerk reaction. DT People are jumping over the barriers. NT NR will have videos I expect, that they wont use. They have twisted evidence all along. IH I spoke to the NR person who was locking the gates on the [pedestrian] crossing in December. He said itll be permanent.

Vanessa I wouldnt have thought so. No grounds for that. Processes. What can happen either way. If PM says dont close the crossing, NR can apply to the DfT. If PM says extinguishment it will be formally done. A public enquiry would be held & independent... NT The Director of Rail Safety of the ORR came some months ago, he walked the alternative routes & was appalled. He said he didnt see why NR would dispute decision if CC doesnt. JE was there, he can confirm. JE [Nodded.] Vanessa So why[something]? NT Because theyre just trying it on... Right at the beginning they said it was a permissible right of way. We asked for evidence, they didnt have any they were just chancing it, this is how its been the whole time. Vanessa We asked for emphasis... NT Their [NRs] near-misses information. There are no clear criteria. Have you asked NR about bias towards the end of the line where drivers remember the last crossing & make reports on that? The evidence is scanty, unclear & weak. In the national figures the near misses are strongly upwards, but deaths are going down, so if you just take a simple view it looks as though more near-misses means greater safety. So that simply doesnt add up. Also the Deputy Assistant Coroners Report was weak & flawed. He misquotes John Cope [discussion here whether Smith or Cope], says there is continuing risk. There is also risk of accidents in this room. It means nothing to say that & the RAIB has confirmed that John Cope did not support any recommendation for closure. You have that letter. IH The foot crossing is safer. Just put a sign on it... Vanessa Things could be improved by signs? HE Brian here can explain how the whistle boards could be made clearer. They have faded, some trains dont whistle. Vanessa How many trains dont whistle? BM About 1 in 10 dont whistle. The railway couldve used red lights like at Hayle. NT But its important, if improvements are carried out, that the crossing doesnt remain closed until they are done. In other places NR has made promises it hasnt kept for 10 years. MB Have you discussed improvements with NR? Have you discussed improvements as a council?

PM NR say improvements are not practicable NT & you accept that at face value? MB It needs more exploration. There are cheap, quick & effective methods. PP Are you against us? It sounds like you are. PM Its just a fact [what NR says]. I cant change facts. MB You can. You can negotiate with NR about improvements. This is not a consultation exercise, thisVanessa [interrupting] Yes it is. MB The consultation closed months ago. We want to negotiate with you about whats causing you problems clearly you have problems or you wouldnt be stalling. PM I am not here to negotiate. I dont understand your terminology. NT Wed be upset if minor safety points were a condition for opening as NR could delay implementation indefinitely & they have form on that. MB to PM Is this just your decision, not JEs? PM Yes. MB Will we have a decision this week? PM Yes, hopefully. MB How will it be made public? PM Well write to you in the usual fashion. Vanessa Well publish our report. We will write to interested parties. MB to PM Will you be writing a report? PM I will set out my rationale. Ive got a... test... MR This is the future of a whole village. It will effect children. I beg you... Our shop for instance, weve just got it back & now its in danger of closing again. People on their walks arent popping in any more. Not visiting.

CT Our hotel has already lost the heliport trade & now with this... PM I recognise passion on both sides. HE Other people arent living in Long Rock. The people who signed that petition [for making crossing safe or closing it] signed because it says make it safe thinking they were signing for that & out of sympathy for a bereaved family. MR I am 78 now, Id hoped by the time I was 90 I could still make it to the beach, but I couldnt make it there like this. PP The part of the beach by the village isnt the dog beach. If I go down to the beach by the traffic crossing, its full of dog walkers, dogs relieving themselves & running about. Its not good for families, swimming, sunbathing. DT There are rats living in the rocks down there. MR Our beach has a lovely wall & is sandy. NT My neighbour was on oxygen, but he could manage to get over the foot crossing easily & hed spend 5 or 10 minutes enjoying the view & admiring ladies in bikinis, it was therapeutic, did him the world of good. He came back home very refreshed. PM [Drawing meeting towards closure.] I hope you feel it was fair... I am fairly sure there will be a challenge either way... I will decide to the best of my ability. Thank yous, good byes, PM chatted with MR before leaving.