11 13 12 0204 62337 2025 63341 Transcript of Proceedings - 189166gw-Full

I N THE SECOND J UDI CI AL DI STRI CT COURT OF THE STATE OF
NEVADA
I N AND FOR THE COUNTY OF WASHOE
- oOo-
THE STATE OF NEVADA, :
:
Pl ai nt i f f , : Case No. CR12- 2025
: Dept No. 10
vs. :
:
ZACH COUGHLI N, :
:
Def endant . :
======================================================
TRANSCRI PT OF PROCEEDI NGS
TRI AL
November 19, 2012
Reno, Nevada
SUNSHI NE LI TI GATI ON SERVI CES
Tr anscr i bed By: GAI L R. WI LLSEY, CSR #359, CA CSR
TRANSCRI PT OF PROCEEDI NGS - 11/ 19/ 2012
SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - 775- 323- 3411
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1
2
3
4
5 ^. ^
6 A P P E A R A N C E S
7
8
FOR THE PLAI NTI FF:
9 MR. YOUNG
10
11
12
13 FOR THE DEFENDANT:
I N PRO PER
14
15
16
17
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21
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23
24
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1
2
I NDEX OF EXAMI NATI ON
3
4
5 EXAMI NATI ON PAGE #
1st Wi t ness AUSTI N LI CHTY
6 Di r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Coughl i n 33
7 2nd Wi t ness COLTON TEMPLETON
Di r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Coughl i n 135
8
3r d Wi t ness CORY GOBLE
9 Di r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Coughl i n 167
Cr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 198
10 Redi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Coughl i n 200
11 4t h Wi t ness NATHANI AL ZARATE
Di r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Coughl i n 205
12
13
14 I NDEX OF EXHI BI TS
15
Exhi bi t s 1 t hr ough 3 wer e admi t t ed 104
16
17
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20
21
22
23
24
Page 4
1 **^. ^**
2 RENO, NEVADA, MONDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2012, 9: 15 A. M.
3 **^. ^**
4
5 THE COURT: We' r e r eady t o go.
6 What we' r e goi ng t o do f i r st i s supposedl y
7 r emai ni ng obj ect i ons t o t he subpoenas. I have
8 pr evi ousl y r ul ed on t he mot i ons f or mi st r i al whi ch was
9 deni ed. The subpoenas, I r ul ed t hat wi t h t he
10 except i on of t he at t ached subpoenas, al l ot her
11 subpoenas wer e ei t her i mpr oper l y ser ved, i mpr oper l y
12 i ssued, undul y bur densome, wer e f or wi t nesses or
13 mat t er s i r r el evant t o t he t r i al and t he mer i t s i n t hi s
14 case or di d not speci f y what document s, i f any, wer e
15 bei ng subpoenaed i n t he case of t he Subpoenas Duces
16 Tecum.
17 So t he f ol l owi ng subpoenas ar e t he onl y ones
18 t hat ar e goi ng t o be honor ed t oday. The one f or
19 Ni col e Wat son, i s Ni col e Wat son her e? Okay. Was she
20 ser ved? Di d you pay her or not wi t ness f ee?
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , you t ol d me t hat
22 was ei t her wai ved or def er r ed.
23 THE COURT: I di d not say t hat . I sai d i f
24 you pr esent ed pr oof t o me t hat I or der ed t hat i t be
Page 5
1 wai ved or def er r ed, I woul d consi der t hat . I r evi ewed
2 ever yt hi ng you f ur ni shed me; I di d not see such a
3 document .
4 MR. COUGHLI N: I bel i eve I have an audi o
5 r ecor di ng on t he r ecor d t hat we di scussed my
6 i ndi gency.
7 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t want t o hear what
8 you bel i eve; do you have i t cued up?
9 MR. COUGHLI N: No, I don' t .
10 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
11 I ' mnot goi ng t o do anyt hi ng on t hat . Lucy
12 Byi ngt on? I gave you unt i l l ast Thur sday t o gi ve me
13 t hat . Lucy Byi ngt on.
14 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' l l j ust ent er f or t he
15 r ecor d, your Honor , t hat I had a Bar di sci pl i nar y - - a
16 f ul l - day hear i ng.
17 THE COURT: I under st ood t hat , but I gave you
18 addi t i onal t i me so you coul d get t hat .
19 MR. COUGHLI N: And Mr . Skau, I woul d l i ke t o
20 pr eser ve f or t he r ecor d, he l i ed t o t he cour t
21 asser t i ng t hat he was gi ven I bel i eve aut hor i t y t o
22 ser ve me by e- mai l f or a hear i ng - -
23 THE COURT: He was not - -
24 MR. COUGHLI N: That ' s what he r epr esent ed t o
Page 6
1 me.
2 THE COURT: And t hat was an addi t i onal
3 ser vi ce t o make sur e t hat you got i t , si r .
4 MR. COUGHLI N: That ' s not hi s r epr esent at i on.
5 THE COURT: Col t on Templ et on? Okay. Mr .
6 Templ et on i s her e so we wi l l honor t hat subpoena.
7 Rober t Dawson? Okay. Any pr oof t hat he was
8 of f er ed a wi t ness f ee or t hat I wai ved i t ?
9 MR. COUGHLI N: I bel i eve he hung up on me and
10 you di d wai ve i t , i t ' s on t he r ecor d, your Honor .
11 I ' ve got t he C D, your Honor . I ' l l t est i f y under
12 penal t y of per j ur y t hat you di d.
13 THE COURT: Wel l , you' l l have an oppor t uni t y
14 l at er t oday. Si r , si t down.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: I j ust need t o cor r ect f or
16 per j ur y' s sake, your Honor , t hat I bel i eve you
17 r eser ved t he r i ght t o make me pay i t l at er i f i t
18 wasn' t out r i ght wai ved.
19 THE COURT: Aust i n Li cht y? Al l r i ght . Mr .
20 Li cht y i s her e so we wi l l pr oceed wi t h hi m.
21 Any ot her subpoenas I ' ve al r eady r ul ed on?
22 And I know Mr . Dogan i s her e, but I bel i eve I r ul ed on
23 your subpoena as wel l i t was, i f i t was among t hose
24 t hat I pr evi ousl y r ul ed on.
Page 7
1 THE WI TNESS: Your Honor , amI f r ee t o l eave?
2 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , I do not bel i eve
3 anybody pr esent ed a subpoena on hi s behal f . Cer t ai nl y
4 t he Ci t y At t or ney doesn' t r epr esent t he publ i c
5 def ender .
7 Mr . Dogan, t el l me why you want t he subpoena
8 quashed?
9 MR. DOGAN: Your Honor , I f i l ed a mot i on t o
10 quash t he subpoena t hat was ser ved upon me by Mr .
11 Coughl i n. Ther e was no r esponse, i t ' s an admi ssi on
12 t hat my mot i on i s wor t hy. Al so I have no knowl edge of
13 t he f act s - -
14 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , can we have hi m
15 swor n i f he' s goi ng t o t est i f y?
16 THE COURT: Wai t a second, si r . You si t
17 down, he' s an at t or ney. You ar e not , come on.
18 Mr . Dogan?
19 MR. DOGAN: Your Honor , I ' mnot a per ci pi ent
20 wi t ness. I have no per sonal knowl edge of t he - -
21 THE COURT: I ' mj ust t r yi ng t o f i nd your
22 mot i on. You sai d you di d f i l e a mot i on wi t h t he
23 cour t ?
24 MR. DOGAN: That ' s cor r ect , your Honor .
Page 8
1 THE COURT: Do you know what dat e i t was?
2 MR. DOGAN: About t wo weeks ago, I bel i eve.
3 THE COURT: Okay. I have one f r omMr . Skau.
4 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I have a copy of Mr .
5 Dogan' s mot i on, i f you woul d l i ke t o see i t ?
6 THE COURT: I woul d but I ' msur e i t ' s i n
7 her e.
8 MR. YOUNG: I t was f i l ed st amped of
9 November 7t h, and I woul d was ser ved a copy of t hi s so
10 t hat ' s how I have a copy.
11 MR. YOUNG: Mot i on t o Quash Subpoena Duces
12 Tecumf i l ed st amped November 7, 2012, at 10: 24.
13 THE COURT: I do have i t , i t was one of t he
14 f i r st ones - - i t i s i n t he or der . What i t r esponds i s
15 t hat t he mat er i al r equest ed by t he Subpoena Duces
16 Tecumwas pr evi ousl y f ur ni shed t o Mr . Coughl i n and
17 f ur t her , t hat Mr . Dogan does not have t hat and I
18 gr ant ed t hat mot i on.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , I was never ser ved
20 t hat .
21 THE COURT: Never ser ved what ?
22 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I never r ecei ved t hat .
23 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , accor di ng t o t hi s, i t
24 was mai l ed t o you or f axed.
Page 9
1 MR. COUGHLI N: I t was f axed?
2 THE COURT: And t he subpoena you ser ved hi m
3 wi t h wasn' t about - - si r , on t op of t hat , t he subpoena
4 you ser ved hi mwi t h wasn' t a val i d subpoena.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mgoi ng t o not e f or t he
6 r ecor d t hat my at t or ney, Br i an Dogan, i s smi r ki ng at
7 me menaci ngl y.
8 THE COURT: I woul d say i t ' s not menaci ngl y.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: I t hi nk he' s changed hi s
10 expr essi on si nce you - -
11 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , coul d we move on?
12 THE COURT: I t hi nk he has smi l ed, and
13 t her e' s no r ul e agai nst smi l i ng.
14 Anyhow, si r , t hat subpoena i s quashed f or t he
15 r easons st at ed i n t he mot i on but f or t he f ur t her
16 r eason t hat t he document t hat you ser ved hi mwi t h was
17 not a val i d subpoena.
18 MR. YOUNG: For t he r ecor d, I ' mshowi ng Mr .
19 Coughl i n a copy of t he mot i on.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , j ust f or t he
21 r ecor d, I bel i eve not i ce an oppor t uni t y t o be hear d
22 di ct at es - -
23 THE COURT: You had not i ce and oppor t uni t y t o
24 be hear d, si r , and I ' ve r ul ed and we' r e done.
Page 10
1 THE WI TNESS: I was not ser ved t hi s, your
2 Honor , and even i f he di d f ax i t whi ch I don' t bel i eve
3 i s accur at e, t hat ' s not appr opr i at e ser vi ce.
4 THE COURT: Si r , I f ur ni shed you ever yt hi ng
5 i n t hi s f i l e, and you had t he oppor t uni t y t o r evi ew
6 i t .
7 MR. COUGHLI N: When you di d f ur ni sh me
8 ever yt hi ng i n t hi s f i l e?
9 THE COURT: At t he l ast hear i ng we had i n
10 t hi s case.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: No, you di dn' t . You pr i nt ed
12 of f a docket sheet .
13 THE COURT: Yes, whi ch shows - -
14 MR. COUGHLI N: That ' s not ever yt hi ng i n t he
15 f i l e.
16 THE COURT: No but i t l i st ed ever yt hi ng i n
17 t he f i l e.
18 Si r , I ' mnot goi ng t o ar gue wi t h you. I f you
19 have somet hi ng t o add, go ahead and add i t . Add i t
20 r i ght now - -
21 MR. COUGHLI N: You f ur ni shed me ever yt hi ng i n
22 t he f i l e?
23 THE COURT: No. I f ur ni shed you a l i st of
24 ever yt hi ng t hat was i n t he f i l e.
Page 11
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay, t hat was Oct ober 22nd.
2 Thi s i s November 7t h.
3 THE COURT: I under st and but you wer e gi ven
4 ext r a t i me t o r espond t o t he subpoenas. The i ssue
5 bef or e me was t hat I had quashed ever yt hi ng pendi ng
6 t he r evi ew, and you wer e gi ven an oppor t uni t y t o show
7 me pr oof t hat t hose wer e val i d subpoenas. You had
8 t hat subpoena or i f you di dn' t have t he subpoena, i t
9 never exi st ed, si r . Di d you not - -
10 MR. COUGHLI N: You r ul ed on - -
11 THE COURT: Di d you not pur por t edl y ser ve Mr .
12 Dogan wi t h a subpoena?
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I di dn' t per sonal l y.
14 THE COURT: No, but di d you dr af t i t up?
15 MR. COUGHLI N: That doesn' t not i ce t o me t hat
16 he f i l ed a mot i on t o quash.
17 THE COURT: I ' mnot t al ki ng about t he mot i on
18 t o quash. I was r ul i ng on al l t he subpoenas t hat you
19 had at t empt ed t o ser ve or ser ved and I t ol d you t hat .
20 MR. COUGHLI N: I wasn' t not i ced t hat t he
21 hear i ng woul d be about t hat .
22 THE COURT: Yes. You wer e not i ced t hat by
23 Thur sday, you wer e t o f ur ni sh me wi t h al l your poi nt s
24 and aut hor i t i es, al l of your evi dence t hat t hose wer e
Page 12
1 val i d subpoenas, ever y subpoena, i ncl udi ng t hat one
2 even, i f you hadn' t made a mot i on.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Even i f I hadn' t made a
4 mot i on?
5 THE COURT: Even i f he had not made a mot i on
6 t o quash i t . Ther e wer e l ot s of peopl e who di dn' t
7 make mot i ons t o quash t hei r subpoenas.
8 MR. COUGHLI N: You quashed i t because - -
9 THE COURT: Because t hey wer e ei t her - - I
10 t ol d you di r ect l y t hat you woul d have t o pr esent pr oof
11 t hat t hey wer e subpoenas val i dl y i ssued by t he cour t
12 and pr oper l y ser ved. As t o t he subpoenas t hat you
13 f ur ni shed me wi t h t he document at i on you f ur ni shed me,
14 I f ound t hat t hose at t ached t o my or der wer e t he onl y
15 ones t hat wer e ei t her val i dl y ser ved or pr oper l y
16 execut ed.
17 Now, t he pr obl emi s i n addi t i on t o t hat , I
18 r eser ve r ul i ng on whet her or not t he wi t ness f ees wer e
19 pr oper l y pr of f er ed. You wer e gi ven an oppor t uni t y t o
20 pr esent t hat t o me, and you st i l l haven' t done t hat .
21 Anyhow, Mr . Dogan' s subpoena i s quashed.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: I f I coul d j ust do an of f er of
23 pr oof f or t he r ecor d. He has r ef used t o t el l me much
24 i n t he way of hi s communi cat i ons wi t h Dor ot hy Nash
Page 13
1 Hol mes.
2 MR. YOUNG: I obj ect , your Honor .
3 THE COURT: That ' s i r r el evant t o t hi s case
4 and I have - - i t ' s i r r el evant . Si t down or you wi l l
5 be escor t ed out of t he r oom, Mr . Coughl i n.
6 Mr . Dogan, you' r e f r ee t o go.
7 Al l r i ght . Ar e we r eady t o go Mr . Coughl i n?
8 Not Mr . Coughl i n, Mr . Young?
9 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t he onl y pr el i mi nar y
10 mat t er I have i s wi t h r espect t o t he subpoena f or
11 Aust i n Li cht y. He i s pr esent , i t was a
12 def ense- gener at ed subpoena. I t ook a l ook at t he
13 Not i ce Of Wi t nesses t hat was f i l ed by t he def ense.
14 Mr . Li cht y i s not ment i oned on t he Not i ce of
15 Wi t nesses. I cer t ai nl y di d not l i st hi mon my Not i ce
16 of Wi t nesses. So per st at ut e, I woul d ask t hat he not
17 be al l owed t o t est i f y.
18 As an of f i cer of t he cour t , I ' l l t el l you I
19 di d speak wi t h Mr . Li cht y f or t he f i r st t i me t hi s
20 mor ni ng. The sumof hi s t est i mony i sn' t compl i cat ed
21 so I don' t want t o mi sl ead t he cour t sayi ng t hat hi s
22 t est i mony i s so compl i cat ed t hat I need addi t i onal
23 t i me. I ' mj ust l et t i ng t he cour t know he was never
24 not i ced.
Page 14
2 Si nce he i s her e and he was subpoenaed, I
3 wi l l al l ow hi mt o t est i f y but you have no ot her - -
4 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , i f you r ecal l , I put
5 on t he St at e' s wi t nesses. I had not r est ed yet . At
6 t hi s t i me, I wi l l f or mal l y r est t he St at e' s case i n
7 chi ef .
9 Mr . Coughl i n, you can cal l your f i r st
10 wi t ness.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, your Honor . I r ecogni ze
12 your r ul i ng, si r . I ' mnot chal l engi ng i t , but I j ust
13 know on t he Cer t i f i cat e Of Ser vi ce - -
14 THE COURT: Si r , i f you speak about somet hi ng
15 I ' ve al r eady r ul ed on, you wi l l be i n cont empt of
16 cour t , al l r i ght ? I ' mnot goi ng t o ar gue wi t h you.
17 You may cal l your f i r st wi t ness.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. And I bel i eve Zach
19 Young was subpoenaed as wel l .
20 MR. YOUNG: And my of f i ce al so di d a mot i on
21 t o quash, i t ' s absol ut el y r i di cul ous t o subpoena me.
22 THE COURT: The onl y peopl e l ef t and I di d
23 e- mai l you t he or der . I f you do not have i t , I wi l l
24 - - i t was al so mai l ed t o you, but I wi l l pr ovi de you a
Page 15
1 copy of t he or der r i ght now, si r .
2 MR. COUGHLI N: What dat e, si r , i s t hat or der ?
3 I s i t - -
4 THE COURT: I t was t he day - - I t ol d you I
5 pr epar ed i t on. You di dn' t br i ng i t i n unt i l Thur sday
6 so I got I di d done Fr i day mor ni ng, i t was t he or der
7 denyi ng mot i on f or mi st r i al , i t was pr epar ed on
8 November 16t h at 11: 41 AM and November 16t h at 11: 42.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: I know, your Honor , and I gave
10 you t hose subpoenas t hat wer e l awf ul l y i ssued - -
11 THE COURT: Si r , I ' mnot ar gui ng wi t h you
12 about t he subpoenas. The or der i s done. You had your
13 oppor t uni t y.
14 MR. COUGHLI N: I f I coul d j ust pr eser ve t hat
15 f or t he r ecor d - - -
16 THE COURT: You' ve al r eady pr eser ved i t , your
17 Honor .
18 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t bel i eve I have, your
19 Honor .
20 THE COURT: Yes, you have. You pr eser ved i t
21 by maki ng your mot i on. I f you di sagr ee wi t h t he
22 r ul i ng of t he cour t , you wi l l have t he pr oper
23 oppor t uni t y f ol l owi ng t r i al i n t hi s case, t o appeal or
24 seek post convi ct i on r el i ef , what ever you do, but so
Page 16
1 f ar as t he r ul i ng of t he cour t , i t i s done and under
2 our r ul es, a mot i on once made cannot be made agai n,
3 si r .
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Si r , t he basi s f or what I ' m
5 ar gui ng now di dn' t exi st unt i l t hi s cour t cl osed on
6 Fr i day.
7 THE COURT: No, si t down. You ar e goi ng t o
8 be i n cont empt of cour t . Do you have a copy of t he
9 or der of t he cour t ? Mr . Coughl i n?
10 MR. COUGHLI N: You' r e aski ng me, si r ?
11 THE COURT: Do you have a copy of t he or der
12 of t he cour t ?
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t bel i eve so, si r .
14 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . You' r e goi ng t o have
15 bot h or der s. I have i dent i f i ed t he peopl e i n t he
16 cour t r oomt hat r esponded t o t he subpoena. You can
17 cal l t hemas wi t nesses. You can t est i f y your sel f but
18 i t ' s t i me f or you t o go f or war d, si r .
19 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay.
20 I have a f ew pr el i mi nar y mat t er s, your Honor ,
21 i f I coul d addr ess l i ke Mr . Young di d?
22 THE COURT: What ' s t he pr el i mi nar y mat t er ?
23 MR. COUGHLI N: I bel i eve t her e' s a basi s f or
24 r ecusal , your Honor .
Page 17
1 THE COURT: Deni ed, go ahead.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: Can I ent er i nt o t he r ecor d
3 t he bases f or t hat ?
4 THE COURT: You' ve al r eady had an oppor t uni t y
5 t o r ecuse me a l ong t i me ago, si r . You can' t do i t
6 dur i ng a t r i al .
7 MR. COUGHLI N: Ther e' s newl y di scover ed
8 evi dence.
9 THE COURT: Newl y di scover ed evi dence f or
10 r ecusal ?
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Not hi ng wi t h r espect t o you,
12 your Honor , but wi t h r espect t o t he cour t i n gener al .
13 THE COURT: Si r , I wi l l gi ve you t wo mi nut es
14 t o st at e what i t i s.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r . Cer t ai nl y I j ust - -
16 THE COURT: I don' t bel i eve i t ' s t i mel y but
17 go ahead.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , si r , some of t he
19 evi dence has onl y become avai l abl e t o me r ecent l y.
20 Ther e i s an i ssue r i ght now r el at ed t o t he evi ct i on i n
21 t he Mer l es case - -
22 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I woul d obj ect t o
23 t hat . I don' t know how an evi ct i on case has any
24 r el evance t o t hi s.
Page 18
1 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' l l l et hi mf i ni sh i n
2 t wo mi nut es. Go ahead, si r .
3 MR. COUGHLI N: I t goes t o Rev 2011- 001708
4 whi ch was a summar y evi ct i on now on appeal bef or e t he
5 Nevada Supr eme Cour t t hat ul t i mat el y l ed t o a cr i mi nal
6 t r espass convi ct i on, a cust odi al j aywal k ar r est , t he
7 mat t er t hat I subpoenaed Mr . Young and Mr . Dogan about
8 on Febr uar y 27t h i n t he vi ol at i ons of N R S 178. 405.
9 The newl y di scover ed evi dence r el at es t o t he
10 f act t hat I have l ear ned t hat t he l ockout or der was
11 conduct ed out si de of t he 24- hour wi ndow r equi r ed by
12 st at ut e, much l ess t he f act t hat t he or der i t sel f di d
13 not cont ai n t he r equi r ed l anguage.
14 THE COURT: That has t o do wi t h t hi s case,
15 not t hi s one. Anyt hi ng el se, si r ?
16 MR. COUGHLI N: The r eason I br i ng t hi s up now
17 t he Reno J ust i ce Cour t has r ef used t o pr ovi de me
18 i nf or mat i on r el evant t o when he t r ansmi t t ed t he
19 evi ct i on or der t o t he Washoe Count y Sher i f f ' s Of f i ce.
20 THE COURT: I f i nd t hat i r r el evant t o t hi s
21 case. Anyt hi ng el se, si r ?
22 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t bel i eve t he Reno
23 J ust i ce Cour t r esponded t o my subpoenas i nci dent t o
24 t he St at e Bar hear i ng.
Page 19
1 THE COURT: I ' msor r y?
2 MR. COUGHLI N: I subpoenaed some i ndi vi dual s
3 f r omt he Reno J ust i ce Cour t and as f ar as I know, I
4 di dn' t r ecei ve any r esponse t o t hemand t he
5 i ndi vi dual s di dn' t show up at my Bar hear i ng.
7 Wel l , you can t ake t hat up wi t h t he Bar , si r .
8 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , i t i ndi cat es some sor t
9 of conf l i ct .
10 THE COURT: I don' t know what conf l i ct i t
11 i ndi cat es. I f someone di dn' t show up i n some separ at e
12 case unr el at ed t o t hi s one, t hen you have r ecour se i n
13 t hat case.
14 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , j ust t o set f or t h mor e
15 cl ear l y my basi s f or asser t i ng t her e may be a conf l i ct
16 i n aski ng t he cour t t o exami ne - - i s t hat t o t he
17 ext ent t hat t he Count y woul d f ace subst ant i al
18 l i abi l i t y wer e i t t o have ef f ect ed an i mpr oper l ockout
19 based on an i nval i d or voi d evi ct i on i n t hat i t wasn' t
20 ser ved wi t hi n t he amount of t i me r equi r ed by
21 st at ut e - -
22 THE COURT: They woul d pr osecut e you f or
23 st eal i ng a cel l phone because of t hat ?
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I ' ve been ar r est ed t en
Page 20
1 t i mes t hi s year , t hat ' s cer t ai nl y out of t he or di nar y.
2 THE COURT: Yes, I agr ee i t ' s out of t he
3 or di nar y but you' r e al so out of t he or di nar y, si r .
4 I f i nd no r el evance, no l ogi cal connect i on
5 bet ween t he cases you' ve t al ked about and t hi s case.
6 I mean, one Reno Muni Cour t had absol ut el y not hi ng t o
7 do wi t h t hi s i nci dent , what happened t her e. What
8 happened wi t h t he St at e Bar unl ess t hi s case became
9 par t of i t .
10 MR. COUGHLI N: I t di d ext ensi vel y.
12 I n t hat case, I r ef used t o t est i f y. I was
13 r equest ed t o t est i f y. I sai d t hat i t woul d be
14 i nappr opr i at e f or me t o t est i f y i n a case bef or e t he
15 St at e Bar when I amdeci di ng your gui l t or i nnocence
16 i n t hi s case.
17 So your mot i on t o quash or t o r ecuse me i s
18 deni ed, si r . Ar e you r eady t o cal l your wi t ness, si r ?
19 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r . And, your Honor , i f
20 I coul d j ust not e t her e was - - your Honor , I cer t ai nl y
21 don' t mean t o go f or war d af t er you' ve r ul ed on
22 somet hi ng, but as t o t he basi s f or t he mi st r i al , t he
23 numer ous vi ol at i ons of t he Compet ency Eval uat i on
24 st at ed by t he pr osecut i on t hi s year and t he cour t i n
Page 21
1 gener al , i s t hat somet hi ng open f or ar gument or ?
2 THE COURT: No, i t ' s not open f or ar gument .
3 I ' ve r ul ed on i t .
5 And t hen I amsur e t hat I don' t see t he Reno
6 Pol i ce Depar t ment of f i cer s her e t oday. They wer e
7 appr opr i at el y ser ved pr oper l y i ssued subpoenas. So I
8 bel i eve t hat ' s a basi s f or a cont i nuance.
9 THE COURT: Wel l , t hey wer e Subpoenas Duces
10 Tecum. I r evi ewed t hemand f ound t hat t hey wer e
11 i l l egi bl e and di d not speci f y t he document s r equest ed.
12 The one t hat di d speci f y document s r equest ed, t hose
13 document s wer e f ur ni shed t o you.
14 MR. COUGHLI N: But t her e wer e ones t hat
15 wer en' t Subpoenas Duces Tecum. They wer e j ust f l at
16 out show up t o t est i f y wi t ness subpoenas.
17 THE COURT: Then cal l t he wi t ness and we' l l
18 deal wi t h i t - -
19 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' l l cal l Of f i cer Dur al de.
21 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' l l cal l Of f i cer Dur al de.
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 Wher e i s t he subpoena?
24 MR. COUGHLI N: I bel i eve I had t o gi ve i t t o
Page 22
1 you, your Honor , and t hen I coul dn' t get i t back i n
2 t i me t o ser ve t he r est of t hemon Fr i day because I
3 cal l ed t he cour t and asked f or t hembut t he or der
4 wasn' t r eady, t hat was af t er del i ver i ng t hemt o t he
5 cour t on Wednesday I bel i eve.
6 THE COURT: Si r , I wi l l al l ow you t o come up
7 her e and l ook at t hese. Mr . Young can go t hr ough t hem
8 one at a t i me. Show t hemt o Mr . Young as you go
9 t hr ough t hembecause - -
10 MR. COUGHLI N: And j ust on t hat not e, I don' t
11 see Ms. Wat son her e.
12 THE COURT: I t hi nk I al r eady cal l ed her .
13 MR. COUGHLI N: But you di dn' t quash her
14 subpoena, si r .
15 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , we shoul dn' t have any
16 di scussi ons at t he bench. Thi s i s j ust f or hi mt o
17 r evi ew t he subpoenas.
18 THE COURT: Thi s i s j ust f or you t o i dent i f y
19 t he subpoenas t hat you cl ai mwer e pr oper l y i ssued and
20 ser ved. I bel i eve t hi s mi ght - -
21 MR. YOUNG: I woul d ask t hat we don' t have
22 any conver sat i ons at t he si de bar , i t needs t o be
23 r ecor ded.
24 THE COURT: You, si r , j ust show me t he
Page 23
1 subpoena t hat you cl ai mwas ser ved.
2 These ar e t he ones you' ve al r eady been
3 f ur ni shed.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: You say I ' ve been f ur ni shed
5 meani ng?
6 THE COURT: These ar e t he ones t hat ar e
7 at t ached t hat I sai d wer e pr oper l y ser ved, but I was
8 r eser vi ng r ul i ng on whet her or not you had pr of f er ed
9 t he wi t ness f ee as r equi r ed by - - t hese ar e al l
10 at t ached t o t he or der , si r .
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , and I t hi nk I was
12 gi ven t hat or der t hi s mor ni ng.
13 THE COURT: Wel l , you wer e sent i t l ast
14 Fr i day by your pr ef er r ed met hod of ser vi ce.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mnot seei ng any of t he
16 of f i cer s i n her e.
17 THE COURT: These ar e Subpoenas Duces Tecum
18 i n whi ch no document s wer e speci f i ed.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: That one doesn' t say Subpoena
20 Duces TecumI don' t bel i eve.
21 THE COURT: These wer en' t ser ved.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: I bel i eve t hey wer e.
23 THE COURT: Ther e' s a Subpoena Duces Tecum
24 wi t h no document s speci f i ed.
Page 24
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Ther e was t he mat t er of t hi s
2 i ncl usi on i n what was mai l ed was set f or t h al l t he R P
3 D case number s t hat was I was r equest i ng.
4 THE COURT: What about t hem?
5 MR. COUGHLI N: I t says exact l y what speci f i c
6 document at i on I ' mr equest i ng.
7 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' msor r y, si r , i t ' s not
8 at t ached t o t hi s. I t ' s not f i l ed wi t h t he cour t , as
9 r equi r ed by t he r ul es, and I ' ve al r eady r ul ed on i t .
11 And al l t hese wer e - - wel l , t hi s one wasn' t
12 because I coul dn' t get i t back f r omt he cour t af t er
13 del i ver i ng on Wednesday one day af t er my St at e Bar
14 hear i ng wher e t hey wer e goi ng t o di sbar me.
15 THE COURT: You di dn' t del i ver t hese t o t he
16 cour t on Wednesday. They wer e del i ver ed Thur sday at
17 al most 5: 00 o' cl ock. I wai t ed f or t hemt o come i n.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Was t he 14t h Wednesday? I
19 know i t was t he day af t er t he 14t h.
20 THE COURT: The 15t h was Thur sday.
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay, yes, si r . I ' msor r y, I
22 was mi st aken i n t hat r egar d.
23 But t he R P D ones t hat ar e t he Subpoenas
24 Duces Tecumones, t hey woul d be r i ght her e. Savannah
Page 25
1 Mont gomer y, di spat cher , Ron Rossa and Al exa and Mr .
2 Weese, i t ' s my under st andi ng t hose wer e appr opr i at el y
3 ser ved under N R S- 174. 345, and I ' ve not seen any of
4 t hose wi t nesses her e t oday. I woul d move f or a
5 cont i nuance.
6 THE COURT: Wel l , wher e i s t he one f or
7 Of f i cer Dur al de? The same pr obl em, Of f i cer Dur al de i s
8 not i n her e by t he way.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: My under st andi ng i s t hat I
10 i ncl uded t hat i n t he envel ope. I don' t want t o
11 mi sspeak. I don' t bel i eve he was ser ved t he or i gi nal
12 but hi s was on - -
13 THE COURT: The bot t oml i ne i s t hat you have
14 t he r i ght r equest ed or der t o show cause i f you show
15 pr oof and you pr of f er ed t hemt he wi t ness f ee.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , you t ol d me I
17 di dn' t have t o pr of f er t hemt he wi t ness f ee.
18 THE COURT: I di d not t el l you t hat . You
19 t ol d me I t ol d you t hat .
20 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, I ' ve asser t ed t hat under
21 oat h.
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 MR. COUGHLI N: And i t ' s not been r ebut t ed by
24 Mr . Young who was t her e I bel i eve.
Page 26
2 MR. COUGHLI N: I t ' s not been r ebut t ed by Mr .
3 Young.
4 THE COURT: I t ' s been r ebut t ed by me. I sai d
5 t hat you had t o f ur ni sh me pr oof by Thur sday. You
6 have not , t he t r anscr i pt .
7 MR. COUGHLI N: A t yped- out t r anscr i pt ?
8 THE COURT: No. Al l you had t o do was r ef er
9 t o t he l i ne of t he audi o. I t ol d you al l t hat . I ' m
10 not goi ng t o wast e any mor e t i me.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: And ear l i er you asked me i f I
12 had i t keyed up. I f I had i t keyed up now, can I show
13 i t t o you?
14 THE COURT: I f you have i t keyed up, yes.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Or I can show i t t o you l at er ?
16 THE COURT: You can show i t t o me l at er but
17 r i ght now, you need t o pr oceed wi t h your t r i al , si r .
18 We' ve been her e f or al most a hal f hour and as f ar as
19 I ' mconcer ned, you' ve accompl i shed not hi ng.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: And, your Honor , t he l ast
21 poi nt of i ssue woul d be t hat I was f i nal l y gi ven t he
22 mat er i al s t hat Mr . Lesl i e r ef used t o gi ve me, even
23 t hough he had subpoenaed t hemf r omECOM on
24 Oct ober 3r d, and t hose mat er i al s i ncl ude t he di spat ch
Page 27
1 r ecor di ngs bet ween Reno P D and ECOM and I bel i eve i t
2 demonst r at es mi sconduct i n t hat Mr . Young has asser t ed
3 t o t hi s cour t , i n f i l i ngs and t hr ough ar gument and by
4 el i ci t i ng t est i mony, t hat - - I bel i eve i t ' s t he basi s
5 f or a mi st r i al t hat t he i nf or mat i on f r omdi spat ch was
6 t hat t her e was a possi bl e f i ght . I have t hose
7 r ecor di ngs. Ther e' s no i ndi cat i on of a possi bl e f i ght
8 bei ng communi cat ed t o t he Reno P D ei t her i n t he
9 di spat ch l og or i n t he r ecor di ngs.
10 MR. YOUNG: I woul d obj ect t o t hat bei ng
11 unt i mel y, and t her e' s no basi s f or i t ot her t han hi s
12 st at ement s.
13 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t even know what he' s
14 aski ng f or so i t ' s deni ed.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: I have t he audi o r ecor di ng
16 bet ween di spat ch and t he Reno P D.
17 The whol e poi nt of t he suppr essi on hear i ng
18 whi ch you r eser ved t he r i ght t o r et ai n - - ent er a
19 r ul i ng on st i l l i s t hat par t of t he basi s - - t he mai n
20 basi s f or t he pat down and t he pr obabl e cause t o do
21 t he sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est i s t hat Mr . Young had
22 r epeat edl y had sai d, possi bl e f i ght , di spat ch t ol d hi m
23 possi bl e f i ght , di st ur bance, possi bl e f i ght and i t was
24 j ust dr i l l ed i nt o t he r ecor d over and over agai n.
Page 28
1 THE COURT: That ' s not what I r ecal l , si r ,
2 but you' l l be abl e t o ar gue t hat , t hat ' s a f act t hat I
3 wi l l need t o r ul e on i n det er mi ni ng your gui l t or
4 i nnocence. So l et ' s move on.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r . I f I coul d cal l my
6 f i r st wi t ness, I ' l l cal l Aust i n Li cht y, your Honor .
8 MR. COUGHLI N: Act ual l y, I ' l l cal l Ni col e
9 Wat son.
10 THE COURT: I s Ni col e Wat son her e?
11 MR. YOUNG: She i s not , your Honor .
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I woul d move f or a
14 cont i nuance, si r .
15 THE COURT: Deni ed.
16 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , based on t he mot i on
17 t o cont i nue, I can' t i magi ne what she shoul d have t o
18 of f er t hi s cour t t hat ' s of subst ance t hat ' s necessar y
19 under Hi l l bust os. So unl ess I hear ot her wi se, I woul d
20 al so oppose t he cont i nuance.
21 THE COURT: Wel l , t he cont i nuance i s deni ed.
22 You di d not pr esent t he pr oof t hat I r equest ed on
23 Thur sday, si r .
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Wi t h r espect t o wi t ness f ees?
Page 29
1 THE COURT: Yes.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: Oh, I of f er ed t o pay t hem.
3 THE COURT: You of f er ed t o pay t hem. Then
4 you pr of f er ed her t he wi t ness f ee?
5 MR. COUGHLI N: I coul dn' t ver i f y whet her or
6 not i t was her on t he phone.
7 THE COURT: No. When you del i ver ed t he
8 subpoena, si r , di d t he per son t hat del i ver ed t he
9 subpoena have a check f r omyou?
10 MR. COUGHLI N: I t was mai l ed.
11 THE COURT: Wel l , di d you encl ose t he check
12 wi t h t he mai l i ng?
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t bel i eve so.
15 Wel l t hen, si t down and cal l your next
16 wi t ness.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r .
18 So i f I can j ust cl ar i f y, si r , i t seems l i ke
19 you pul l ed asi de one of t he subpoenas and sai d you
20 wer e r eser vi ng r ul i ng on t hose unt i l I show you t he
21 payment pr oof ?
22 THE COURT: Yes. Those ar e t he ones t hat I
23 - - t hose ar e t he ones, based on t he r ecor ds, t hat I
24 f ound t o be r el evant , t hat t hey wer e pr oper l y
Page 30
1 subpoenaed wi t h a subpoena i ssued by t hi s cour t and
2 t hat t hey wer e pr oper l y ser ved by mai l . However , I
3 r eser ve r ul i ng on whet her or not t he ser vi ce was
4 compl et ed because of t he r equi r ement t hat t hey be
5 pr of f er ed t he wi t nesses f ee.
6 Al l r i ght . So go ahead.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: That di f f er s mar kedl y f r om- -
8 THE COURT: No, i t doesn' t di f f er f r omwhat I
9 t ol d you at t he l ast cour t dat e, si r . I t ol d you t o
10 submi t t hat t o me by Thur sday.
11 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , you have asked Mr .
12 Coughl i n no l ess t han f i ve t i mes t o cal l hi s f i r st
13 wi t ness; can we move on. I t ' s quar t er t o 10: 00. Thi s
14 i s t aki ng a whi l e.
16 Go ahead.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , I ' l l cal l Aust i n
18 Li cht y.
20 Mr . Li cht y, wi l l you come up.
21 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , i f I r ecal l
22 cor r ect l y, t he r ul e of excl usi on had been i nvoked at
23 t he l ast hear i ng so bef or e we t ake t est i mony.
24 THE COURT: I woul d ask t hat al l of you who
Page 31
1 ar e subpoenaed t o t est i f y, i f you' l l wai t out si de. Do
2 not di scuss t he case amongst your sel f or wi t h anyone
3 el se unt i l cal l ed t o t est i f y, al l r i ght , and i f you
4 wer e subpoenaed, you do need t o wai t her e.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Maybe I don' t have a r i ght t o
6 do t hi s, si r . I f t hat ' s t he case, I don' t mean t o ask
7 i t but t o t he ext ent t hat a wi t nesses' f ami l y r emai n
8 i n t he cour t r oom, i t woul d seemt o - -
9 MR. YOUNG: I oppose t hat , your Honor .
11 I t ' s been opposed. He has t he r i ght t o
12 i nvoke t he r i ght of excl usi on as wel l , t he r ul e of
13 excl usi on. So come up her e, si r .
14 MR. COUGHLI N: And I ' l l i nvoke t he r ul e of
15 excl usi on.
16 THE COURT: I t ' s al r eady been i nvoked. You
17 sai d you di dn' t want t o i nvoke i t .
18 MR. COUGHLI N: No, I di dn' t . I sai d I want ed
19 ever yone who i sn' t t est i f yi ng t o l eave t he cour t r oom.
20 MR. YOUNG: And t hat has been done.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: And t hei r f ami l y member s.
23 MR. YOUNG: I woul d oppose t hat . Ther e' s no
24 basi s i n l aw f or t hat .
Page 32
1 THE COURT: Pl ease r ai se your r i ght hand.
2 ( The wi t ness was swor n. )
3 THE COURT: Si r , unl ess someone i s subpoenaed,
4 you can' t f or ce t hemt o r emai n i n t he cour t r oom.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: No, t o l eave t he cour t r oom.
6 THE COURT: You can f or ce t hemt o l eave t he
7 cour t r oomunder t he r ul e of excl usi on.
8 MR. COUGHLI N: And t hat ' s what I at t empt ed t o
9 do, si r .
10 THE COURT: Wel l , ever yone who i s a wi t ness
11 i n t hi s case has been r equest ed t o l eave and t hey al l
12 have.
13 MR. COUGHLI N: And I was j ust sayi ng t o t he
14 ext ent t hat i f t hei r f ami l y r emai ns, i t - - ( i naudi bl e)
15 t he i mpor t of t he r ul e of excl usi on t o t he ext ent t hat
16 t hey' r e abl e t o r epor t on i t r at her easi l y.
17 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , agai n, I oppose i t .
18 I t hi nk you' ve r ul ed on i t .
19 THE COURT: I t doesn' t r eal l y mat t er . They
20 have t he f r ee wi l l t o st ay or l eave i f t hey wi sh. I f
21 t hey' ve chosen t o l eave, you cannot f or ce t hemt o
22 st ay.
23 Go ahead, si r .
24
Page 33
1 AUSTI N LI CHTY
2 EXAMI NATI ON
3 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
4 Q Yes, sir.
5 Good morning, Mr. Lichty. Thank you for
6 appearing today.
7 THE COURT: Oh wai t , si r , woul d you spel l
8 your f i r st and l ast name f or t he r ecor d?
9 THE WI TNESS: Aust i n, A U S T I N. Li cht y, L
10 I C H T Y.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Has he been swor n, I may have
12 mi ssed i t ?
13 THE COURT: Yes. He was swor n. You wer e
14 swor n r i ght , si r ?
15 THE WI TNESS: Yes.
16 THE COURT: Go ahead.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , I bel i eve you
18 st at ed i t was al l r i ght i f I r emai n seat ed at t i mes?
19 THE COURT: That ' s f i ne.
20 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
21 Q All right.
22 Mr. Lichty, can you indicate what your date
23 of birth is, please?
24 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor , r el evance.
Page 34
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , I bel i eve i t goes
2 t o r el evancy i s t hat Mr . Li cht y i s hear d on t he 911
3 t apes excl ai mi ng t hat because he was17 year s ol d t hat
4 he coul d do - -
5 THE COURT: I f you ask hi mhow ol d he was, I
6 wi l l sust ai n t he obj ect i on si nce t hat i s a pr i vi l eged
7 dat e and can be used i n a publ i c r ecor d, soci al
8 secur i t y number , dat e of bi r t h, but you can cer t ai nl y
9 ask hi mhow ol d he was when t he cal l was made.
10 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , your Honor . Thank
11 you.
12 THE COURT: The age, not t he dat e of bi r t h.
14 Q Mr. Lichty, on August 20, 2011, how old were
15 you?
16 A I was 18.
17 Q You were 18, did you say something otherwise
18 on that date?
19 A I don' t r emember .
20 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on t o t hat .
21 THE COURT: What ' s t he obj ect i on?
22 MR. YOUNG: Di d you say somet hi ng ot her wi se,
23 I don' t even under st and what t hat quest i on means, i t ' s
24 t oo br oad.
Page 35
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , an of f er of pr oof
2 of woul d be - -
3 THE COURT: Then ask hi mspeci f i cal l y what i t
4 i s, not ot her wi se, di d you say ver bat i mwhat he sai d.
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q Did you say you were younger than 18 on that
7 date?
8 A My l i f e f el t t hr eat ened, so yes, I di d.
9 Q Okay.
10 Can you explain why your life felt
11 threatened?
12 A Because you wer e st eal i ng f r omus and t al ki ng
13 ver y bad t o us sayi ng al l t hi s st uf f . Thi s was a
14 whi l e ago. I don' t r emember exact l y what you wer e
15 sayi ng, but you wer e bei ng ver y r ude t o us and you
16 wer e st eal i ng st uf f f r ommy f r i end.
17 Q And your life felt threatened?
18 A Because you' r e an adul t and I was st i l l j ust
19 a ki d. I may have been 18 but I was st i l l a ki d.
20 Q So when you were 18, did you feel threatened
21 -- did you feel your life was threatened in the
22 presence of any adult?
23 A To be honest , I st i l l f eel t hr eat ened si t t i ng
24 i n her e wi t h you.
Page 36
1 Q Why is that?
2 A Because you' r e j ust t hi s wei r d guy t hat keeps
3 cal l i ng me. You har ass me.
4 Do you want t o t al k about St ar bucks how you
5 t ol d me you wer e my basket bal l coach?
6 THE COURT: I ' msor r y, I di dn' t hear what you
7 sai d.
8 THE WI TNESS: Okay. Wel l , t hi s happened l i ke
9 t wo - -
10 THE COURT: No, no, I di dn' t hear what you
11 sai d.
12 MR. COUGHLI N: Obj ect i on, your Honor ,
13 non- r esponsi ve. Maybe i t i s r esponsi ve, act ual l y. I
14 ki nd of opened t he door t o i t .
15 THE COURT: What I asked you t o do, si r , was
16 r epeat what you had al r eady sai d. You sai d somet hi ng
17 about you f el t t hr eat ened by hi mand t hat he was
18 cal l i ng you const ant l y and t hen you sai d somet hi ng
19 el se.
20 THE WI TNESS: I f el t har assed.
21 THE COURT: What ' s your quest i on?
22 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' msor r y, your Honor , i s i t
23 al l r i ght t o r ecor d t he pr oceedi ngs?
24 THE COURT: No, i t ' s not . We have a
Page 37
1 r ecor di ng.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: But I ' l l be abl e t o get a
3 r ecor di ng of t he pr oceedi ngs?
4 THE COURT: I ' l l pr ovi de you wi t h an audi o
5 r ecor di ng, not a t r anscr i pt .
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Thank you, si r , and due t o my
7 i ndi gency - - my i ndi gency r emai ns si r , so t he si mi l ar
8 ar r angement t hat ' s been i n pl ace - -
9 THE COURT: I wi l l wai ve t he cost of an audi o
10 r ecor di ng, but ever yt hi ng has t o be done speci f i cal l y.
11 I ' mnot wai vi ng ever y cost i n t hi s case.
12 MR. COUGHLI N: Thank you, si r .
14 Q So you felt your life was threatened; were
15 you there with others?
16 A Yes, l ot s of ot her s.
17 Q So even -- how many others were you there
18 with, could you give us an estimate numerically?
19 A Twent y peopl e but I was one of t he f i r st ones
20 because - - okay. J ust go ahead and ask me your
21 quest i on.
22 Q I'm sorry, I couldn't understand the last
23 part.
24 THE COURT: He sai d he was one of t he f i r st
Page 38
1 ones. J ust go ahead and ask your quest i on.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: Af t er he sai d I was one of t he
3 f i r st ones, t hen he sai d somet hi ng el se.
4 THE COURT: He sai d, " Go ahead and ask your
5 quest i on. "
6 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
7 Q Okay.
8 So were you one of the first to approach --
9 and I know this might sound weird, Mr. Lichty, but
10 when you think I might say myself, I'm just going to
11 say "the suspect" throughout this?
12 When you were -- were you one of the first to
13 approach the suspect?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did you do that in a group?
16 A I don' t r emember now.
17 Q Did you do it alone?
18 A I possi bl y was t he f i r st one t o - -
19 THE COURT: Mr . Li cht y, I ' mgoi ng t o ask you
20 t o move a l i t t l e cl oser t o t he mi ke because we have
21 t r oubl e pi cki ng t hese up. Go ahead.
22 THE WI TNESS: Okay. I was def i ni t el y one of
23 t he f i r st . I f ol l owed you on your bi ke and your chai n
24 br oke and t hat ' s when ever yone st ar t ed cat chi ng up but
Page 39
1 I was one of t he f i r st .
2 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
3 Q Are you sure that you weren't alone and the
4 first?
6 Q Do you remember why you approached the
7 suspect?
8 A Because I was t ol d t hat you st ol e a phone and
9 i t was - - one of your wi t nesses or one of t he peopl e
10 you want ed t o br i ng i n cal l ed me and sai d t hat t hey
11 t hought i t was my phone.
12 Q And can you say their name?
13 A Ni col e Wat son.
14 Q She was calling you?
15 A Thi nki ng i t was my phone, and she t ol d me
16 t hat a phone was st ol en.
17 Q Okay.
18 And then how did that result in you
19 approaching the suspect?
20 A She t ol d me t hat - - she poi nt ed because we
21 wer e al l j ust at t he i ce r i nk. We wer e al l t oget her .
22 Ther e was a f ew of us out i n t he mi ddl e skat eboar di ng
23 and t hen t her e was t he peopl e si t t i ng on t he si de on
24 t he l i t t l e seat i ng ar ea. Then she cal l ed me and she
Page 40
1 poi nt ed when I l ooked over at her because I answer ed
2 my phone and you wer e r i di ng away on your bi ke.
3 Q When she called you, did she say something?
4 Did you answer the phone?
5 A She sai d t hat someone pi cked up a phone next
6 t o us and t hen she poi nt ed at you.
7 Q She said someone picked up a phone next to
8 them and where would that have been?
9 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect .
10 I di d not obj ect i ni t i al l y on hear say. I f we get t oo
11 much i nt o what Ms. Wat son sai d, t hat ' s hear say. What
12 I di d al l ow was t he i ni t i al quest i on of why di d Mr .
13 Li cht y appr oach t he suspect .
14 THE COURT: Do you have a r esponse?
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , your Honor . I
16 r ecal l t he mot i on t o suppr ess hear i ng consi st ed pr et t y
17 much ent i r el y of hear say t est i mony.
18 MR. YOUNG: That ' s di f f er ent t han t r i al .
19 MR. COUGHLI N: But t hen you sought t o copy
20 and past e ever yt hi ng f r omt he mot i on t o suppr ess
21 hear i ng.
22 THE COURT: Okay, si r . You have t o r espond
23 t o t hi s obj ect i on, not some ot her obj ect i on or some
24 ot her di al ogue t hat t ook pl ace.
Page 41
1 On t hi s obj ect i on, what i s your r esponse t o
2 t he hear say obj ect i on?
3 MR. COUGHLI N: I t ' s not goi ng t o pr ove t he
4 t r ut h of t he mat t er asser t ed but t o t he ext ent t hat i t
5 does, i t ' s a pr esence- sense i mpr essi on i ndi cat i ng a
6 hi gher degr ee of vor aci t y t han - -
7 THE COURT: Wher e i s i t goi ng t o, si r ?
8 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' msor r y?
9 THE COURT: What i s i t goi ng t o?
10 MR. COUGHLI N: I n t er ms of a r el evancy
11 obj ect i on?
12 THE COURT: No, i n t er ms of a hear say
13 obj ect i on. You sai d i t was not hear say.
14 MR. COUGHLI N: The ef f ect on t he l i st ener .
15 THE COURT: The ef f ect on t he l i st ener .
16 MR. COUGHLI N: What she' s t el l i ng hi m- -
17 THE COURT: Wel l , you can ask hi mwhat she
18 di d as a r esul t of what she t ol d hi m.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: I woul d l i ke t o know what she
20 t ol d hi m.
22 The obj ect i on i s sust ai ned. Go ahead.
23 MR. COUGHLI N: So I can ask hi mwhat she t ol d
24 me?
Page 42
1 THE COURT: The obj ect i on i s sust ai ned, i t ' s
2 hear say.
3 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
4 Q So how did you wind approaching the suspect?
5 A I skat ed af t er you on my skat eboar d.
6 Q But why did you do that?
7 A Because I was t ol d you st ol e my f r i end' s
8 phone.
9 Q By who?
11 Q And did she indicate specifically how and
12 where the phone was stolen?
13 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t hi s agai n I woul d
14 obj ect t he same r ul i ng you j ust made.
15 THE COURT: Sust ai ned. You sai d i t doesn' t
16 mat t er i f i t ' s t r ue or not what she sai d t o hi m.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , i t mat t er s wher e i t sai d
18 - -
19 THE COURT: Ei t her i t mat t er s or i t doesn' t .
20 Now you' r e sayi ng i t does mat t er .
21 MR. COUGHLI N: No, I t hi nk i t does mat t er ,
22 your Honor - -
23 THE COURT: Wel l , t hen i t ' s hear say. The
24 obj ect i on i s sust ai ned. Go ahead.
Page 43
1 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
2 Q Where was the phone stolen from?
3 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on.
4 THE COURT: That ' s hear say.
5 MR. YOUNG: Act ual l y i f he knows, he can
6 answer .
7 THE WI TNESS: Fr omt he i ce r i nk, i t was
8 si t t i ng on t he si t t i ng ar ea.
9 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
10 Q Sitting on the sitting area?
11 A Yeah, l i ke t he bor der of t he i ce r i nk wher e
12 peopl e al ways si t .
13 Q Would that be called a ledge by some?
14 A Yeah, I guess you coul d cal l i t a l edge.
15 Q Okay.
16 And is it your understanding the suspect just
17 walked up next to a group of people --
18 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I woul d obj ect t o,
19 " I s i t your under st andi ng. " I f he knows f i r st - hand,
20 he can answer but aski ng what ' s your under st andi ng - -
21 THE COURT: I f you saw someone t ake t he
22 phone, you can answer . I f you hear d i t f r omsomeone
23 el se, you cannot .
24 MR. COUGHLI N: And I ' l l j ust pr eser ve f or t he
Page 44
1 r ecor d, your Honor , we had a mul t i t ude of what someone
2 el se t ol d Zar at e and Gobl e i n t he f i r st coupl e of days
3 of t r i al and gi ven some of t he r ul i ngs so f ar , - -
4 THE COURT: Okay, si r , I ' ve r ul ed agai n so go
5 ahead.
6 MR COUGHLI N: So you sust ai ned yet anot her
7 obj ect i on by Mr . Young?
8 MR. COUGHLI N: I t ' s t he same obj ect i on t hat
9 i s hear say i f i t ' s of f er ed f or t he t r ut h of t he mat t er
10 at i ssue. Thi s wi t ness, unl ess he has per sonal
11 knowl edge of who t ook t he cel l phone, you asked why he
12 chose t o go af t er you, i t ' s because someone t ol d hi m
13 t hat . But as t o whet her he act ual l y saw you t ake t he
14 cel l phone, he can onl y answer t hat i f he saw you t ake
15 t he cel l phone.
17 Q Did you see the suspect take the cell phone?
18 A No.
19 Q Okay.
20 Did you approach the suspect alone?
21 A I don' t r emember . Thi s was a year ago.
22 Q Did you approach -- have you seen any videos
23 on YouTube about this?
24 A No.
Page 45
1 Q You've seen no videos on YouTube about this?
2 A No.
3 Q If we searched your home computer, would we
4 find any remnants --
5 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor , badger i ng.
6 THE COURT: When you say " t hi s, " si r what do
7 you mean t hi s?
8 MR. COUGHLI N: Anyt hi ng connect ed t o t hi s
9 i nci dent .
10 THE COURT: Connect ed, t hat ' s ver y br oad.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: By any r easonabl e def i ni t i on
12 any of t he subsequent i nt er vi ews t hat t ook pl ace say a
13 week l at er wher e Mr . Li cht y i s sayi ng, " Hey - -
14 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor - -
15 THE COURT: I ' mgoi ng t o sust ai n t he
16 obj ect i on. The onl y t hi ng - - i f t her e' s somet hi ng on
17 a vi deo of t he i nci dent - -
18 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I woul d ask Mr .
19 Coughl i n t o st op l ooki ng at Mr . Li cht y' s mot her . Thi s
20 i s get t i ng danger ousl y cl ose t o me aski ng f or
21 sanct i ons agai nst Mr . Coughl i n.
22 He i s now, per your or der , a l i censed
23 at t or ney. The l ast t hi ng he shoul d be doi ng i s
24 l ooki ng back at Ms. Li cht y dur i ng t hi s conver sat i on.
Page 46
1 I woul d ask t hat he st ar t wat chi ng hi msel f .
2 MR. COUGHLI N: I f I ' ma l i censed at t or ney, I
3 can i ssue subpoenas.
4 THE COURT: He' s not l i censed.
5 MR. YOUNG: You' r e r i ght , he' s t empor ar i l y
6 suspended, however , he' s al l owed t o act i n hi s own
7 def ense. He does not need t o be l ooki ng back i n t he
8 gal l er y at t he wi t nesses' mot her .
10 Si r , you do not need t o l ook at t he
11 wi t nesses' mot her .
12 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' l l pr eser ve, f or t he r ecor d,
13 I have no i dea who t hat woman i s.
14 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , he keeps l ooki ng back at
15 her .
16 THE COURT: Wel l , now he knows. So you' r e
17 i nst r uct ed not t o l ook at t he vi ct i m' s mot her or t he
18 al l eged vi ct i m.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay and i f I can have Mr .
20 Young cease gl ar i ng at me and smi l i ng wi t h Mr . Lesl i e,
21 I woul d appr eci at e t hat .
22 THE COURT: To my knowl edge, i t hasn' t
23 happened. Why don' t you pay at t ent i on t o your case.
Page 47
1 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
2 Q Did you say something to the suspect about
3 his butthole being widened while he was in jail?
5 Q If I showed you a videotape of it, would it
6 help refresh your recollection? You need to answer
7 with an audible response, sir, because this is being
8 recorded and it will probably be typed up into a
9 transcript and if there's any conviction, it will
10 probably be on the Nevada Supreme Court --
11 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , he doesn' t need t o
12 make a st at ement .
13 THE COURT: Tr ue.
14 Si r , you ar e t hr eat eni ng t he wi t ness by your
15 st at ement s.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: That ' s not my i nt ent , si r .
17 THE COURT: Wel l , you ar e. So you can ask a
18 quest i on and you' l l have t o accept t he answer .
20 Q Okay.
21 If I showed you a videotape of you saying,
22 "Did your butthole get widened while you were in
23 jail," would that help refresh your recollection?
24 A Sur e.
Page 48
1 Q Okay.
2 Did you make any calls that night with your
3 phone in connection with the arrest or the moments
4 prior thereto?
5 A I t hi nk I l et Cor y use f or my phone t o cal l
6 911, but I don' t r emember compl et el y.
7 Q And what is your phone number?
8 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor r el evance.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: I t goes t o est abl i sh one,
10 vor aci t y and t wo, a chai n of event s. I have cal l
11 r ecor ds. I can i mpeach hi s t est i mony or hi s
12 r ecol l ect i ons and t he ext ent t o whi ch t hey ar e - -
13 THE COURT: Wel l , f i r st of al l , i t has t o be
14 r el evant . What ' s t he r el evance, si r ?
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I mean we have had a
16 gr eat deal of t est i mony wi t h r espect t o who cal l ed who
17 and when. Most of i t dur i ng Mr . Young' s case i n
18 chi ef . We wer en' t t ol d by name cal l ed who and
19 coul dn' t r emember t hi s or t hat and who coul d act ual l y
20 say t hey had per ci pi ent knowl edge of seei ng t hi s or
21 t hat happen, t hat was cur i ousl y vague al l t hr oughout
22 Mr . Young' s case whi ch r el i ed pr i mar i l y on hear say
23 whi ch he was al l owed t o admi t i nt o evi dence
24 cont i nuousl y.
Page 49
1 THE COURT: Si r , t he hear say was f or pr obabl e
2 cause i n a pol i ce of f i cer , t hi s i s not . Thi s i s f or
3 gui l t or i nnocence. And si r , you have t he phone
4 number s, you sai d?
5 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t know whose t hey ar e.
6 THE COURT: Wel l , he sai d t hat a phone cal l
7 was possi bl y made f r omhi s phone t o t he di spat ch by
8 Cor y. I t doesn' t mat t er what phone was used, i t ' s
9 what t he st at ement was made t o di spat ch and you had
10 t hat st at ement .
11 MR. COUGHLI N: I f ound i t does mat t er a gr eat
12 deal whose phone was used and wher e i t pl aces t hemand
13 what i t woul d unabl e t hemt o see or do and how i t
14 r el at es t o pr evi ous t est i mony.
15 Fur t her , Zar at e and Gobl e' s t est i mony wasn' t
16 r el at ed t o pr obabl e cause at al l . I n f act , Mr . Lesl i e
17 r ef used t o cal l t hemat t he mot i on t o suppr ess
18 hear i ng - -
19 THE COURT: Okay. I ' mgoi ng t o sust ai n t he
20 obj ect i on. Go ahead.
21 MR. COUGHLI N: So you made how many - -
22 THE COURT: I sust ai ned t he obj ect i on.
24 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead, I ' msor r y.
Page 50
1 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
2 Q Mr. Lichty, it seems as though your last
3 answer was that you let Cory use your phone to call
4 911?
5 A I ' mnot sur e but I t hi nk so.
6 Q Did you use your phone or allow anybody else
7 to use it at any time that night for any other
8 purpose?
10 Q Okay.
11 So you wouldn't have been a part of
12 attempting to verify whether or not the suspect had
13 the phone via attempting to call it?
14 A No.
15 Q Do you have any recollection of that?
16 A I don' t know.
17 Q Please don't look to Mr. Young for coaching
18 when you answer your questions.
19 A I don' t know what r ecol l ect i on means so i f
20 you want t o el abor at e on i t , t hat woul d be ni ce.
21 Q You say you don't know what recollection
22 means?
23 A No.
24 THE COURT: Recol l ect i on means do you
Page 51
1 r emember .
2 THE WI TNESS: I don' t r emember , i t was a l ong
3 t i me ago. I don' t r emember what cal l s we made, i t was
4 over a year ago.
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q Okay.
7 And on that night just to go back a little
8 bit, did you say something to the effect of, "I'm 17,
9 I'm a minor, you can't touch me. I can get away with
10 doing things to you."
11 A Maybe t he f i r st hal f , not t he end.
12 Q Could you give me an idea of what
13 specifically you remember saying in that regard?
15 Q But you remember well enough to tell me not
16 the end part of what I suggested?
17 A Yeah because I coul dn' t say because I can
18 t ouch you I woul dn' t .
19 Q Did you touch me that night?
20 A No.
21 Q Did you make a lunging attempt to reach into
22 my pockets?
23 A No.
24 Q Did you make anything that might reasonably
Page 52
1 be characterized --
2 A Maybe poi nt ed at your pocket because we saw
3 t he phone l i ght up when someone cal l ed i t .
4 Q Okay.
5 And I'm not saying this to badger the
6 witness, your Honor, but he's a young man and I would
7 just like to remind him you are under oath, sir.
8 THE COURT: Si r , you don' t need t o r emi nd
9 hi m. The cour t has al r eady swor n hi munder oat h under
10 penal t y of per j ur y.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: I j ust don' t know i f he
12 under st ands what t hat means or t he consequences
13 at t ached t her et o.
14 THE COURT: You can ask hi m. You can' t t el l
15 hi m. You can' t t hr eat en hi m.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mnot t r yi ng t o t hr eat en
17 hi m, your Honor .
18 THE COURT: Wel l , you can ask hi mi f he
19 under st ands what per j ur y i s.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' ma l i t t l e bi t of f ended t hat
21 you t hi nk I ' mt r yi ng t o t hr eat en hi m, your Honor .
22 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' ma l i t t l e bi t of f ended
23 t hat you' r e t el l i ng me what I ' mdoi ng her e. I ' m
24 t el l i ng you t hat I bel i eve t hat you ar e at t empt i ng t o
Page 53
1 i nt i mi dat e t he wi t ness.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: Do you t hi nk i t ' s possi bl e I ' m
3 t r yi ng t o t el l a young man, " Hey, t her e' s r eal l i f e
4 consequences. You don' t have as much ski n i n t he game
5 as some of t he peopl e t hat maybe coachi ng you up.
6 J ust pl ay i t st r ai ght . "
7 THE COURT: Si r , as f ar as I ' mconcer ned, I
8 i nt er pr et i t as i nt i mi dat i on. So you can ask hi m, as
9 I sai d, i f he under st ands what per j ur y i s i f t hat ' s
10 what you want t o know.
12 Q All right.
13 Do you understand what perjury is?
14 A Do you want t o expl ai n i t ?
15 THE COURT: I wi l l expl ai n i t , si r , i t ' s
16 l yi ng under oat h.
17 THE WI TNESS: Yes, t hat i s what I bel i eve.
18 THE COURT: And i f you l i e under oat h, you
19 can be pr osecut ed f or a f el ony whi ch has a consequence
20 of one year i n pr i son.
22 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . Go ahead.
24 Q Have you been told anything by Mr. Young with
Page 54
1 respect to being prosecuted for perjury -- the
2 likelihood of being prosecuted for perjury?
3 A I ' msor r y, I di dn' t cat ch t he l ast par t of
4 t hat quest i on.
5 Q Has Mr. Young or anyone with the District
6 Attorney's Office made any statements to you with
7 respect to the likelihood that you would actually be
8 prosecuted for perjury, if you happen to be caught
9 perjuring your testimony?
10 A I ' mnot l yi ng so f i ne.
11 Q That's not what I asked you.
12 I asked you did Mr. Young make any statements
13 in any way related to the actual chance of getting --
14 A I j ust t al ked t o hi mt oday f or t he f i r st
15 t i me, and we j ust t al ked about t hi s case. We di dn' t
16 t al k about anyt hi ng el se.
17 Q Right.
18 Okay. Now, I'll ask you for the third time
19 and this time please actually specifically answer my
20 question.
21 MR. YOUNG: He i s st ar t i ng t o badger t he
22 wi t ness now.
23 THE COURT: Okay. St at e t he quest i on, si r .
Page 55
1 Q Did Mr. Young, at any time in your relations
2 with him or anyone with the District Attorney's
3 Office, make any statements to you that indicated the
4 likelihood of your being prosecuted for perjury was
5 either high or low or did they make any specific
6 indication of what the likelihood would be?
7 THE COURT: Wel l , now your quest i on i s goi ng
8 on f or ever . Di d Mr . Young say anyt hi ng about you
9 bei ng pr osecut ed f or per j ur y?
10 THE WI TNESS: No.
11 THE COURT: The answer i s no. Go ahead.
13 Q So that was any statements about the chances
14 of it?
15 THE COURT: Any st at ement s about bei ng
16 pr osecut ed f or per j ur y i ncl udes t he chance - -
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Poi nt t aken, your Honor .
19 Q Okay. So you say at no time that night did
20 you either attempt to reach into the suspect's pocket
21 or make a lunging type of movement with your right
22 hand towards the suspect's say left front shorts
23 pocket?
24 A No, maybe poi nt ed at i t but no r eachi ng.
Page 56
1 Q You pointed at it you said?
2 A Because we saw t he phone l i ght up t hat ' s why
3 when someone cal l ed i t .
4 Q Did you specifically see it light up?
5 A Yes, I di d.
6 Q When was that?
7 A That ni ght .
8 Q Okay.
9 Well, that helps but maybe if you could be a
10 little bit more specific?
11 A Thi s was mor e t han a year ago. I don' t
12 r emember exact l y what t i me t hat happened, sor r y.
13 Q Okay.
14 And I'm not so much looking for a specific
15 minute number but maybe if we put some sort of
16 reference point in the night. Did you say see it
17 light up prior to Ms. Watson calling you and
18 announcing that it was missing?
19 A I t was when we wer e al l ci r cl ed ar ound you
20 wai t i ng f or t he pol i ce t o come.
21 Q Okay.
22 So it wouldn't have been at a point where you
23 were one of the initial in a group approaching the
24 suspect?
Page 57
1 A No.
2 Q Did this group of you estimated 20 all
3 simultaneously converge on the suspect?
4 A No. Sl owl y peopl e st ar t ed comi ng.
5 Q Can you describe that specifically, please,
6 starting with who do you first recall approaching the
7 suspect and whether or not they were alone and then
8 specifically indicating where you fit into that?
10 Q Can you explain to me how you're able to
11 testify as to certain things but then not remember
12 other things?
13 A Somet i mes you know st uf f , somet i mes i t j ust
14 goes. I don' t know.
15 Q Right.
16 But you're testifying as to things that if
17 you can't remember them, then you wouldn't have been
18 able to know the things you said immediately prior to
19 that.
20 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t hat ' s ar gument at i ve,
21 t hat ' s badger i ng.
22 THE COURT: Sust ai ned.
24 Q So would you say you were one of an initial
Page 58
1 group of three who approached the suspect?
2 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , asked and answer ed.
3 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t t hi nk he asked hi m
4 i f i t was an i ni t i al gr oup of t hr ee so I wi l l al l ow
5 t hat quest i on.
6 THE WI TNESS: I don' t know. I was one of t he
7 f i r st .
8 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
9 Q Would you say one of the first five?
10 A Yes.
11 Q But not one of the first seven?
12 A I honest l y don' t know.
13 Q Do you recall when you first started talking
14 to Mr. Goble about his phone perhaps being missing?
16 Q When would you say you first became aware as
17 to whose phone might be missing?
18 A As soon as I got t he phone cal l and t hey sai d
19 t hat a phone was st ol en and i t wasn' t mi ne, and t he
20 onl y ot her per son I know t hat has an i Phone was Cor y.
21 Q Okay.
22 And what did you do immediately thereafter?
23 A Went af t er you.
24 Q You didn't look around for Cory and ask him
Page 59
1 if he had his phone?
3 Q Well, okay and that's where I get confused is
4 you immediately prior had a definitive answer and then
5 the next question you couldn't remember.
6 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on, t hat ' s not
7 a quest i on, i t ' s a st at ement .
8 MR. COUGHLI N: I t ' s aski ng f or cl ar i f i cat i on.
9 THE COURT: I t ' s a st at ement , ask a quest i on,
10 si r .
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay and I ' msor r y, your
12 Honor , I don' t mean t o go back or chal l enge your
13 r ul i ng. Can I ask t hi s t hough what di d I guess i t was
14 Ms. Wat son t el l you t hat made you go af t er t he
15 suspect ?
16 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on. You' ve
17 cover ed t hi s. We' ve gone over t hi s and you pr evi ousl y
18 st at ed i f he kept goi ng af t er pr evi ous r ul i ngs, you
19 woul d consi der hol di ng hi mi n cont empt . He cont i nues
20 t o do t hat .
22 Si r , t he r ul i ng was and I ' l l cl ar i f y i t one
23 l ast t i me t hat what she sai d i s hear say t o hi mexcept
24 hi s r eact i on t o what he sai d i s not hear say. So i f
Page 60
1 based on what she sai d, he det er mi ned t o go af t er you,
2 t hat ' s t he onl y pur pose of i t , i t ' s admi t t ed f or t hat
3 pur pose al one and not t he speci f i c cont ent of what she
4 sai d t o hi m, al l r i ght ?
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay and t hen wi t h r espect t o
6 whet her i t goes t o hi s st at e of mi nd hi s
7 f ear f ul ness - -
8 THE COURT: Hi s st at e of mi nd i s i r r el evant ,
9 si r . I don' t car e i f he was af r ai d of you or not ;
10 what di f f er ence does i t make?
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , f or one, i t woul d go t o
12 i mpeach hi s ear l i er t est i mony t hat he was i n f ear of
13 hi s l i f e.
14 THE COURT: I t ' s not r el evant t o whet her or
15 not you st ol e a cel l phone.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I t hi nk i t goes t o a
17 mat er i al f act i n evi dence because one of t he el ement s
18 of t hat pet t y l ar ceny char ge - - and, your Honor , I ' m
19 sor r y, I don' t know and I apol ogi ze i f you r ul ed on
20 t hi s but di d you i ssue a r ul i ng wi t h r espect t o my
21 mot i on t hat t he possessi on or r ecei vi ng st ol en
22 pr oper t y char ges i s unsuppor t abl e as t he compl ai nt was
23 pl ed and t hat i t di d not ment i on anot her - -
24 THE COURT: Yes. I deni ed t he mot i on.
Page 61
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Under St aub, a mandat or y
2 aut hor i t y i n Nevada I bel i eve.
3 THE COURT: I deni ed t he mot i on, i t ' s an
4 i ssue of f act and you wi l l have t he oppor t uni t y t o
5 ar gue t hat at t he cl ose of t he evi dence, si r .
6 MR. COUGHLI N: We can' t t ake j udi ci al not i ce
7 t hat t he compl ai nt does not ment i on f r omanot her ?
8 THE COURT: Si r , I ' ve r ul ed. Go ahead.
9 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
10 Q Yes, sir.
11 So how many times -- you say you testified
12 that you saw the phone light up?
13 A Yes.
14 Q How many times would you say, did that happen
15 once?
16 A Yes, i t happened once and you f l i pped t he
17 phone over so we coul dn' t see i t anymor e.
18 Q So you would say you were only able to see
19 that once?
20 A Fr omwhat I r emember .
21 Q Okay.
22 And is it the case that the phone just lit up
23 to indicate an incoming call?
24 A But i t happened when we cal l ed.
Page 62
1 Q Okay.
2 So there was a connection that somehow
3 verified to you what you were trying to find out?
4 A Yes.
5 Q But the phone had one of those apps where it
6 just lights up?
7 A You can al so see t he desi gn.
8 Q The imprint kind of?
9 A Yes.
10 And i t was a pai nt ed pi ct ur e t hat Cor y t ook a
11 pi ct ur e of and you can see t he col or s i n i t .
12 Q Okay.
13 A I t was obvi ous t hat i t was hi s phone.
14 Q Okay.
15 And Cory had it set to that incoming call
16 notification where the screen only lights up and
17 there's no vibrating?
18 A Yes.
19 Q So it didn't vibrate?
20 A I don' t r emember compl et el y but I don' t know.
21 Q Is that how Cory likes to set his phone
22 though?
24 THE WI TNESS: I don' t know.
Page 63
1 THE COURT: He al r eady answer ed. Go ahead,
2 si r .
3 MR. YOUNG: I was goi ng t o obj ect t o per sonal
4 knowl edge, but he sai d he doesn' t know so i t ' s good
5 enough.
6 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
7 Q Okay.
8 But you didn't hear any vibrating or any ring
9 tone; you just saw it light up?
10 A We wer e al l - - i t was t he heat of t he moment ,
11 i t ' s ki nd of l i ke i t j ust goes away l i ke you bl ackout
12 st uf f happens. I onl y r emember par t s of t hat ni ght .
13 I don' t r emember ever yt hi ng, ever y l i t t l e det ai l .
14 Q So I'm asking you do you remember hearing any
15 indication --
17 Q But you're saying you remember seeing --
18 A I r emember seei ng i t l i ght up f or sur e.
19 Q Okay.
20 Which pocket would that have been in?
22 Q What side of the suspect were you on?
24 Q Who was there with you with gauged ears?
Page 64
1 THE COURT: Who was t her e what ?
2 MR. COUGHLI N: I asked hi mwho was t her e wi t h
3 you wi t h gauged ear s whi ch i s ki nd of l i ke peopl e have
4 a huge hol d cut i nt o t hei r ear l obe and you a put a
5 cor k i n i t somewhat si mi l ar t o maybe an Af r i can
6 t r i bal t ype - -
9 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
10 Q Do you recall an individual like that?
11 A I t hi nk hi s name i s Peanut , but I don' t know
12 hi s r eal name.
13 Q You think his name is Peanut?
14 A I t hi nk so.
15 Q What else do you know about Peanut?
16 A Absol ut el y not hi ng.
17 Q How did you make know his name was Peanut?
18 A Because I t hi nk Cor y and I went and t al ked t o
19 hi mabout t he si t uat i on when t he pol i ce ar r i ved
20 because he came over and asked what happened t o us and
21 he gave us hi s name and he sai d hi s name was Peanut .
22 Q Was he part of an initial group with you and
23 Cory approaching the suspect; there was a group of
24 three?
Page 65
1 A A gr oup of t hr ee, I don' t r emember .
2 Q Do you recall whether he only showed up after
3 the suspect was in the squad car in handcuffs or was
4 he part of the --
5 A He showed up when t he pol i ce wer e t her e I
6 t hi nk but I don' t r emember , i t was l i ke a year and a
7 hal f ago.
8 Q Have you heard of any videos of YouTube of
9 this incident?
10 A I have not .
11 Q None of your friends have mentioned, have
12 their names or anything turn up a video on YouTube of
13 the incident?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay.
16 Did you pass your phone to anybody else that
17 night?
18 A To Cor y t o cal l t he cops.
19 Q Just to Cory?
20 A Fr omwhat I r emember . I t hi nk I di d. I
21 t hi nk Cor y used my phone t o cal l t he pol i ce, but I
22 don' t r emember .
23 Q Okay.
24 Did you pass your phone to Peanut at all?
Page 66
1 A No, because I don' t know t hat ki d and I
2 woul dn' t t r ust t hat , i t ' s l i ke me gi vi ng my phone t o
3 you. I don' t know you. I don' t t r ust t hat .
4 Q Did you -- where were you -- so it was your
5 understanding the suspect just grabbed the phone off
6 the ledge?
7 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on. He' s
8 al r eady answer ed he di d not see t he suspect gr ab t he
9 phone. For hi mt o ask what ' s your under st andi ng, t hat
10 goes t o ei t her one, hear say or t wo, has no per sonal
11 knowl edge.
12 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mmor e aski ng i t t o
13 under st and what hi s st at e of mi nd was.
14 THE COURT: I t hi nk hi s st at e of mi nd i s
15 i r r el evant so I ' mgoi ng t o sust ai n t he obj ect i on.
18 Q And who else was there prior to the police
19 arriving in the group with you?
20 A Al l t he peopl e - - I don' t know, t he peopl e
21 you subpoenaed. Rober t was t her e. Col t on was t her e.
22 Cor y was t her e. Nat e was t her e. Ther e was a l ot of
23 peopl e t hat I di dn' t know t hat wer e t her e.
24 Q Was Nicole Watson there?
Page 67
1 A Yes.
2 Q When is the last time you spoke with Nicole
3 Watson?
4 A Maybe once af t er t hat ni ght .
5 Q Just once after that night?
6 A I t hi nk so.
7 Q But you two were well enough acquainted that
8 night that she called you immediately?
9 A Yes. We used t o be f r i ends, but I don' t know
10 what happened t o her i f she moved or what happened.
11 Q Is she a student at McQueen High School?
12 A I don' t know i f she st i l l i s. She was.
13 Q Were you?
14 A I was.
15 Q Are you a freshman in college this year?
16 A Yes, I am.
17 Q Okay.
18 Did you make any statements about Cory being
19 24 years old or so but still have having the maturity
20 level of someone who was 17?
21 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on, r el evance,
22 i t ' s a l eadi ng quest i on.
23 THE COURT: What i s t he r el evance, si r ?
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I t hi nk i t woul d go t o
Page 68
1 one, t he vor aci t y of Mr . Gobl e' s t est i mony pr evi ousl y,
2 i t woul d go t o Mr . Li cht y' s r el at i onshi p wi t h Mr .
3 Gobl e and hi s assessment of t he vor aci t y of Mr .
4 Gobl e' s appar ent cl ai mt hat he was at al l t i mes not
5 negl i gent on t hi s ni ght i n quest i on.
6 MR. YOUNG: I hear no basi s i n t hat r esponse
7 t o show why t hi s i s r el evant .
8 THE COURT: The obj ect i on i s sust ai ned.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: Si r , may I have one or
10 sent ence or t wo j ust t o expl i cat e why I bel i eve?
11 THE COURT: What ?
12 MR. COUGHLI N: May I addr ess t hat wi t h a
13 l i t t l e bi t mor e of an of f er of pr oof , si r ?
14 THE COURT: A l i t t l e bi t .
15 MR. COUGHLI N: I t ' s my under st andi ng t hat one
16 cl ai mof r i ght def ends i n t hi s case mi ght be t hat t hi s
17 was l ost , mi sl ai d or abandoned pr oper t y and t he ext ent
18 t o whi ch - - and t her ef or e, l ar ceni st i nt ent di d not
19 exi st at t he t i me of any al l eged t aki ng suf f i ci ent t o
20 under mandat or y aut hor i t y i n Nevada l aw auger f or an
21 acqui t t al her e. The ext ent t o whi ch Mr . Gobl e ei t her
22 al l egedl y l ef t an i Phone on t he gr ound i n t he mi ddl e
23 of a skat e pl aza ver sus l eavi ng - -
24 THE COURT: Si r , t hat depends on when t he
Page 69
1 al l eged t aki ng i s, and I know t hat ' s your ar gument
2 t hat t he al l eged t aki ng occur r ed when you f i r st
3 r ecei ved t he phone but t her e' s anot her ar gument t hat
4 t he al l eged t aki ng occur r ed when you r ef used t o
5 sur r ender t he phone, and we' l l hear t hat at ar gument .
6 But r i ght now si r , you can ask speci f i cal l y
7 i f Mr . Gobl e was negl i gent i n car i ng f or hi s pr oper t y
8 I guess but not whet her he was mat ur e or not . I don' t
9 know what r el evance t hat has.
10 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, your Honor , and j ust t o
11 cl ar i f y, I made no r epr esent at i ons wi t h r egar d t o
12 r ecei vi ng or not r ecei vi ng t he phone or any possessi on
13 of t he phone, especi al l y gi ven t hat t he suppr essi on
14 mot i on i s st i l l up f or debat e.
15 MR. YOUNG: That ' s i naccur at e, i t ' s not .
16 MR. COUGHLI N: That i s accur at e.
17 THE COURT: I t ' s not up f or debat e, si r . I ' m
18 r ul i ng on t he mot i on.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: I ci t ed i n my br i ef s t o wher e
20 you l ef t t hat up f or f ur t her r evi ew, and I t hi nk
21 t hat ' s par t i cul ar l y appr opr i at e.
22 THE COURT: Si r , I ' ve r ul ed on t hi s r i ght now
23 so go ahead. We' r e not goi ng t o ar gue somet hi ng el se.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: But i f I coul d j ust pr eser ve
Page 70
1 f or t he r ecor d t he ext ent t o whi ch - -
2 THE COURT: The quest i on, you had a quest i on
3 and t he quest i on was whet her or not - -
4 MR. COUGHLI N: But t hi s i s a bi g deal .
5 THE COURT: Wel l , maybe i n your mi nd.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , i t i s because Mr . Lesl i e
7 has r un t he case f or 90 per cent of t he t i me.
8 THE COURT: You, si r , ar e r unni ng t he case
9 r i ght now.
10 MR. COUGHLI N: Ri ght , i n t he 9t h i nni ng I get
11 t o t ake over af t er Mr . Lesl i e has pi t ched t he f i r st
12 i nni ng and i t ' s pr ej udi ci al .
13 THE COURT: Wel l , so f ar , t hi s wi t ness has
14 not hel ped your case, l et ' s put i t t hat way. So go
15 ahead.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r . I f you want t o
17 el i ci t somet hi ng about Mr . Gobl e' s negl i gence and
18 t aki ng car e of hi s cel l phone, go ahead and do t hat .
19 MR. COUGHLI N: Thank you, your Honor .
20 Pl ease Mr . Li cht y, woul d you r espond t o t hat
21 i ssue.
22 THE COURT: No. You ask a quest i on. I ' mnot
23 aski ng your quest i ons.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , your Honor .
Page 71
1 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
2 Q Was there some indication that night that Mr.
3 Goble was negligent in some regard with his alleged
4 phone?
6 t hat as f ar as t he use of negl i gence, t hat ' s a l egal
7 t er mt hat cal l s f or a l egal concl usi on. He can ask
8 f act s of what happened but any ar gument t o whet her he
9 was quot e- unquot e " negl i gent , " and I ' mnot concedi ng
10 he was but any ar gument , t hat ' s ar gument sake. Mr .
11 Coughl i n may ask quest i ons as t o t he basi s of t he
12 phone but he can' t ask f or negl i gence.
13 THE COURT: The wor d negl i gence you can ask
14 hi mquest i ons r el at i ve t o t he f act s f r omwhi ch t he
15 cour t can concl ude t hat he was negl i gent .
17 Q Okay.
18 Would you say Cory was careful with his
19 alleged phone that night?
21 Q And what do you remember about where the
22 phone was and anything Cory said about it or?
23 A That he di dn' t want t o br eak i t i n hi s pocket
24 because we wer e skat eboar di ng and we f al l al l t he
Page 72
1 t i me. So he put i t down next t o t he gi r l s I guess. I
2 don' t know.
3 Q Next to what girls?
5 Q And Lucy Byington?
6 A Yes.
7 Q So it was seated right next to them?
8 A I t was somet hi ng Cor y di d. I don' t know but
9 t hat ' s what I t hought .
10 Q But you were told where the phone was placed?
11 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor , hear say.
12 THE COURT: Yes. Obj ect i on sust ai ned.
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I t goes t o t he negl i gent
14 anal ysi s or t he l ost , mi sl ai d or abandoned pr oper t y.
15 THE COURT: I t i s st i l l hear say. You can
16 est abl i sh i t f r omsomebody el se i f you wi sh.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I don' t know t hat Ms.
18 Wat son or Ms. Byi ngt on wi l l appear or Mr . Dawson. So
19 t o t hat ext ent he mi ght be one of t he onl y
20 oppor t uni t i es t o get some t est i mony i n t hat r egar d.
21 MR. YOUNG: He can cer t ai nl y ask whi ch I
22 woul d not obj ect t o i f he saw wher e t he phone was but
23 he cannot ask wher e he hear d t he phone was.
24 THE COURT: Wher e what ?
Page 73
1 MR. YOUNG: Mr . Coughl i n want s t o - - I j ust
2 want ed t o make cl ear my obj ect i on. Mr . Coughl i n asked
3 somet hi ng al ong t he l i nes of under st andi ng wher e t he
4 phone was. Mr . Coughl i n i s f r ee t o ask t he wi t ness i f
5 he saw wher e Mr . Gobl e' s phone was and i f he saw
6 f i r st hand, I ' mnot goi ng t o obj ect t o t hat but as f ar
7 as hi s under st andi ng of what he hear d, t hat ' s hear say.
9 Then t he obj ect i on i s st i l l sust ai ned but you
10 can ask t he ask t hat Mr . Young has suggest ed.
12 Q Did you see where the phone was?
13 A I di d not .
14 Q Did you see the suspect come into possession
15 or see the phone?
16 A No.
17 Q Did you ever actually see the phone in the
18 suspect's possession?
19 A Yes. When i t l i t up i n your pocket .
20 Q Were you able to verify for sure that it was
21 that phone?
22 A Yes.
23 Q How so?
24 A The pi ct ur e on i t and t he way you f l i pped i t
Page 74
1 over as soon as i t st ar t ed l i ght i ng up.
2 Q And that to you was conclusive proof?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And you could see through what was it, the
5 phone was in a pocket at that time?
6 A I don' t know what you wer e wear i ng.
7 Q You don't know what I was wearing?
8 A I don' t .
9 Q But you're able to testify that you can see
10 through it?
11 A Yes, because I do r emember seei ng t he phone.
12 Q Okay.
13 Was anyone physically aggressive or violent
14 towards the suspect?
15 A I don' t know.
16 Q You have no recollection of that; is that
17 correct?
18 A That ' s cor r ect .
19 Q Were you yourself at all?
20 A No.
21 Q Did you call the suspect a fagot and say,
22 "Give us the phone fagot," or something like that?
23 A I mi ght have cal l ed names.
24 Q Such as "fagot?"
Page 75
2 Q Do you remember whether you were captured
3 saying that on a 911 recording?
4 A I don' t know.
5 Q Okay.
6 Did Mr. Goble, at any time on that night,
7 say, "I'm going to reach into his pocket right now?"
8 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, hear say.
9 THE COURT: Wel l , I wi l l over r ul e t hat
10 obj ect i on. I t hi nk he can t est i f y what he hear d Mr .
11 Gobl e say and i t ' s not r eal l y hear say because i t ' s not
12 of f er ed f or t he t r ut h of whet her or not he r eached
13 i nt o hi s pocket . So you can answer t hat quest i on i f
14 you know.
15 THE WI TNESS: I don' t know. I was j ust
16 wor r i ed about what was goi ng on wi t h t he phone. I
17 don' t know what peopl e wer e sayi ng.
19 Q Did the suspect say anything like, "Hey,
20 let's all just be peaceful and wait for the police to
21 arrive and we'll resolve this peacefully."
22 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, t hat i s hear say.
23 MR. COUGHLI N: I t goes t o t he ef f ect on t he
24 l i st ener .
Page 76
1 MR. YOUNG: I don' t know how t hat goes t o t he
2 ef f ect i ve on Mr . Li cht y.
3 THE COURT: I wi l l sust ai n t hat obj ect i on.
4 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
5 Q Was the suspect talking peacefully with you?
6 A No.
7 Q How would you characterize his behavior?
8 A Bei ng r ude and maybe def i ant .
9 Q In what way was he defiant?
10 A He knew t hat he had t he phone. We di d ask
11 peacef ul l y at f i r st i f we coul d j ust have i t back and
12 we woul dn' t get t he pol i ce i nvol ved, and he was j ust
13 per si st ent on sayi ng t hat he di dn' t have i t and t hen
14 t he cops came.
15 Q Did the suspect say anything like that, "If
16 it's your phone, why would you leave it, the phone
17 your mom and dad got you for $300 bucks on --
18 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor , hear say,
19 i t ' s as cl ear - cut hear say as t her e i s.
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , i t ' s goi ng t o - -
22 THE COURT: You can t est i f y, si r .
23 MR. COUGHLI N: I know I can, i t ' s goi ng t o
24 whet her t hat goes t o hi s def i ance ar gument .
Page 77
1 THE COURT: Hi s def i ance ar gument , t hat ' s hi s
2 i mpr essi on of your behavi or . You' r e t he one who asked
3 hi mand I don' t know t hat i t ' s r el evant anyhow.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , he made t he st at ement
5 t hat t he suspect j ust sai d, " I don' t have your phone, "
6 and i f t he suspect made a st at ement i n t hat vei n, i t
7 woul d t end t o i ndi cat e somet hi ng al ong t he l i nes of
8 wel l , who knows whose phone i t i s.
9 THE COURT: That i s r eadi ng your mi nd, si r ,
10 whi ch he can' t do so t hat ' s pur e specul at i on and i s
11 obj ect i onabl e.
12 Anyhow, t hi s wi t nesses' s under st andi ng of
13 your mot i vat i on t o me i s i r r el evant .
14 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mt r yi ng t o ascer t ai n hi s
15 under st andi ng of whet her or not t he suspect t r ul y sai d
16 " Yes" or " No" as t o havi ng t he phone or bei ng awar e.
17 THE COURT: Nobody sai d t hat you deni ed you
18 had t he phone.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: And I ' maski ng hi mwas
20 somet hi ng sai d t hat mi ght t end t o i ndi cat e somet hi ng
21 l ess t han a deni al .
22 THE COURT: Ask a quest i on, si r .
24 Q Did Mr. Goble say, "You just admitted you
Page 78
1 stole my phone?"
2 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on. Hear say.
3 THE COURT: I ' l l al l ow t he quest i on.
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q You don't recall hearing anything like that?
7 A No.
8 Q Did -- I'm sorry, your Honor I'm trying to
9 not go back.
10 Did the suspect say anything about, "Don't
11 set your phone on the ground and then go skateboard a
12 mile away and then get mad if the world picks it up."
13 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on. Mr . Coughl i n keeps
14 aski ng what t he suspect sai d and t hat i s hear say.
15 You' ve r ul ed on t hi s.
16 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . Sust ai ned.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, your Honor , I ' msor r y, I
18 di dn' t mean Mr . Young - -
19 THE COURT: You can ask t he quest i on but i f I
20 sust ai n t he obj ect i on, t hen you have t o move on. Go
21 ahead.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: And i f I ' maski ng i t not t o
23 pr ove t he t r ut h of t he mat t er asser t ed - -
24 THE COURT: Pr oof of what ?
Page 79
1 MR. COUGHLI N: The ef f ect on t he l i st ener .
2 THE COURT: The ef f ect on t hi s l i st ener i s
3 i r r el evant . I ' ve al r eady sai d t hat . I n f act , I t hi nk
4 t he onl y ef f ect on anyone t hat ' s r el evant i s you but
5 - -
6 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
7 Q Was the suspect there, was he aggressive
8 towards you?
9 A No, I don' t t hi nk so.
10 Q So he wasn't physically aggressive towards
11 you?
12 A No.
13 Q Was he verbally aggressive towards you?
14 A I don' t r emember what you sai d.
15 Q But there wasn't any sort of body language or
16 anything that was aggressive or threatening?
17 A I don' t know. I don' t r emember .
18 Q Okay.
19 But a second ago did you testify "No," when
20 asked was the suspect aggressive?
21 A Rest at e t hat , pl ease.
22 Q I'm asking you just a minute ago when you
23 were asked, "Was the suspect aggressive that night,"
24 and you said "No."
Page 80
1 A Yes.
2 Q And then --
3 A You j ust wer e def i ant .
4 Q In what way defiant?
5 A Li ke you woul dn' t gi ve t he phone back. You
6 wer e l yi ng about t he whol e t hi ng. You j ust wer en' t
7 bei ng r easonabl e when i t coul d have j ust been easi l y
8 sol ved.
9 Q Was there any indication of why the suspect
10 might have taken that position?
11 A I don' t know.
12 Q Did the suspect indicate --
13 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on hear say, i f he' s goi ng
14 t o ask what he sai d.
15 THE COURT: Go ahead wi t h your quest i on.
17 Q Did the suspect make any indication that he
18 found it off putting that your group of you said
19 eventually 20 I assume they're all youths, approached
20 him in a hostile and aggressive manner suddenly and
21 were making demands?
22 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on.
23 THE COURT: Hear say, sust ai ned.
Page 81
1 Q Did you or someone you were with make a 911
2 call that night alleging that someone just socked a
3 minor?
4 A Not t hat I ' mawar e of .
5 Q Did you make any statements about you being a
6 minor and someone having just socked you or punched
7 you or touched you in a way similar?
8 A No.
9 Q I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you?
10 A No.
11 Q So you're sure about that?
12 A Pr et t y sur e.
13 Q Okay.
14 And so just to follow up, that would follow
15 that neither you nor anyone you were aware of used 911
16 in an impermissible way by lying about someone having
17 just socked a minor to get a more urgent response from
18 the police?
20 THE WI TNESS: I don' t know who cal l ed 911. I
21 t hi nk Cor y di d wi t h my phone. I don' t know.
23 Q Regardless of whether you know who called
24 911, do you know whether somebody called 911?
Page 82
1 MR. YOUNG: Asked and answer ed, your Honor .
2 THE COURT: He j ust answer ed i t , si r .
3 Obj ect i on sust ai ned. Move on.
4 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
5 Q Okay.
6 Did you see -- once the officer arrived,
7 where were you positioned?
9 Q Do you remember the officer arriving?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And can you describe what you saw or heard?
12 A I r emember t hemf i ndi ng t he phone. Then Cor y
13 di d hi s l ock t hi ng, and we f i gur ed out i t was hi s
14 phone and t hat ' s what I r emember f r omt hat .
15 Q You remember them finding the phone?
16 A I n your pocket and t hen Cor y - - t he of f i cer
17 gave t he phone t o Cor y. Cor y unl ocked i t because he
18 had a pass code on i t and t hen Cor y pr oved t hat i t was
19 hi s phone by unl ocki ng t he pass code.
20 Q Did you ever see the officer attempt to call
21 the phone or would that have been pointless since you
22 couldn't see it light up anyway?
24 Q So you were there when the officer arrived
Page 83
1 though; is that correct?
2 A Yes.
3 Q How many officers were there?
5 Q Were there five officers there, would you
6 estimate?
7 A I don' t know.
8 Q Okay.
9 Do you recall whether the officer immediately
10 started going through the suspect's pockets or?
12 Q Do you recall whether the suspect had a dog
13 or a bike with him?
14 A He had a bi ke.
15 Q Do you recall whether he had dog?
17 Q You keep looking at Mr. Young; would you
18 please just answer my questions?
19 THE COURT: He' s al l owed t o l ook at anyone he
20 want s. Mr . Young i s not si gnal i ng hi manyt hi ng. I ' ve
21 been obser vi ng Mr . Young.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' ve obser ved hi mcl osel y t oo
23 especi al l y on t he audi o r ecor di ngs and I ' ve not i ced at
24 key poi nt s, t her e seemt o be cer t ai n t her e seemt o be
Page 84
1 cer t ai n si gni f i er s and vocal i nf l exi on and ot her wi se
2 t hat woul d t end t o i ndi cat e t r oubl e zone.
3 THE COURT: He' s not doi ng anyt hi ng. Ri ght
4 now he' s smi l i ng at your st at ement .
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. Wel l , he has a good
6 sense of humor , Mr . Young does.
7 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
8 Q Was the suspect -- was he waiting for the
9 police or?
10 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor .
11 THE COURT: Was he what ?
12 MR. YOUNG: I bel i eve t he quest i on was was
13 t he suspect wai t i ng f or t he pol i ce and I obj ect t o
14 t hat based on per sonal knowl edge.
15 THE COURT: Yeah. I wi l l sust ai n t he
16 obj ect i on. Thi s wi t ness has no way of knowi ng whet her
17 you wer e wai t i ng f or t he pol i ce or not .
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , he can t est i f y t o what
19 he per cei ved as t o whet her t he suspect was l eavi ng or
20 goi ng.
21 THE COURT: He can t est i f y as t o whet her or
22 not you wer e t her e when t he pol i ce ar r i ved whi ch he' s
23 al r eady done.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: But t hat ' s a di f f er ent
Page 85
1 quest i on. I ' mnot aski ng whet her or not I was t her e.
2 I ' maski ng whet her or not - -
3 THE COURT: You can ask i f you t r i ed t o
4 l eave.
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q Did the suspect try to leave?
7 A When you f i r st st ol e t he phone, yes, but t hen
8 your bi ke br oke and we ci r cl ed you and you coul dn' t .
9 We woul dn' t l et you unt i l t he cops came.
10 Q All right.
11 And what did that entail; did you have to
12 hold the suspect down?
13 A No. We j ust st ayed ar ound you so you woul dn' t
14 go anywher e.
15 Q Did the suspect try to go anywhere?
16 A No, because t her e was a l ot of us maki ng sur e
17 t hat you wer en' t goi ng anywher e.
18 Q How would the suspect know you were making
19 sure?
20 A Because we wer e i n a ci r cl e ar ound you.
21 Q Were some of you standing up, some of you
22 sitting down?
24 Q Did the suspect say anything like, "Let me
Page 86
1 go. I want to leave?"
3 Q Okay.
4 Did the suspect say anything like there was a
5 13-year old who just killed somebody student --
6 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on hear say.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: So ever ybody needs t o r el ax.
8 THE COURT: Sust ai ned and t hi s i s t he l ast
9 t i me. I t hi nk I ' ve made i t pr et t y cl ear you cannot
10 ask hi mabout st at ement s you made, al l r i ght ?
12 THE COURT: So you' r e j ust wast i ng t i me by
13 cont i nui ng t o do t hat .
15 Q Did you or anyone else that night say, "I
16 didn't just kill somebody so that doesn't apply to
17 me?"
18 A What ' s your quest i on?
19 Q Did you or anyone there that night say, "I
20 didn't just kill somebody two months ago?"
21 A I don' t know.
22 Q Okay.
23 Your Honor, I'd like to refresh the
24 witnesses' recollection and/or impeach his testimony
Page 87
1 by offering into evidence some videos or actually at
2 this point, playing a video for him.
3 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , as t o r ef r eshi ng
4 somebody' s memor y, Mr . Coughl i n can at t empt t o r ef r esh
5 a wi t nesses' memor y by showi ng hi msomet hi ng or
6 ot her wi se but i t ' s cer t ai nl y not pr oper t o admi t i t .
7 I don' t know what speci f i cal l y he' s t r yi ng t o r ef r esh
8 t he wi t nesses' memor y of .
9 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' l l t el l you what , I ' l l
10 l eave t he cour t r oom. You can at t empt t o r ef r esh hi s
11 memor y. Mr . Young can obj ect when I come back, i f
12 i t ' s somet hi ng t hat - -
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I woul d ask t hat t he t r i er of
14 f act r emai n i n t he cour t r oom.
15 THE COURT: Wel l , you' r e wr ong, si r , because
16 you have not f ur ni shed t o Mr . Young what you' r e
17 of f er i ng i n evi dence.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, I have.
19 THE COURT: You have. You' ve t ol d hi m
20 exact l y what you' r e of f er i ng i n evi dence?
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , Mr . Young, I ' d l i ke t o
22 of f er at t hi s t i me i nt o evi dence - -
23 MR. YOUNG: And I agr ee wi t h your Honor ' s
24 r ul i ng. He t r i es t o r ef r esh t he wi t nesses'
Page 88
1 r ecol l ect i on. He can show t he wi t ness but t hat shoul d
2 not , at t hi s j unct ur e, come bef or e t he t r i er of f act .
3 THE COURT: And t hat ' s nor mal l y how i t goes,
4 si r . I f t he wi t ness says t hat t hat does not r ef r esh
5 my memor y, t hen you can of f er i t as past r ecol l ect i on
6 r ecor ded, al l r i ght ?
7 MR. YOUNG: I f i t can be aut hent i cat ed?
8 THE COURT: I f i t can be aut hent i cat ed but I
9 t hi nk he can aut hent i cat e i t .
10 MR. COUGHLI N: That ' s r i ght . You di d say
11 t hat ear l i er .
12 THE COURT: But at t hi s poi nt i n t i me, I
13 don' t know i f i t ' s r el evant . I don' t know anyt hi ng
14 about i t . So and t he St at e does have t he r i ght t o
15 obj ect t o i t .
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , and I ' d l i ke t o
17 of f er or I ' d l i ke t o at t empt t o have Mr . Li cht y
18 aut hent i cat e gi ven t hat he was t her e and a per ci pi ent
19 wi t ness and i n f act , vi si bl e and audi bl e i n t he vi deo
20 I ' d l i ke t o show.
22 I ' mgoi ng t o gi ve you 10 mi nut es t o do t hat
23 and t hen I ' l l come back i n unl ess i t ' s done qui cker .
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Thi s i sn' t f or r ef r eshi ng.
Page 89
1 Thi s i s f or aut hent i cat i ng at t hi s poi nt .
2 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , you' l l need t o r ef r esh
3 hi s memor y out si de my pr esence.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I j ust sai d I ' mnot
5 doi ng t hi s f or r ef r eshi ng. I j ust sai d I ' mdoi ng t hi s
6 t o aut hent i cat e t he vi deo.
7 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I ' ve r ecei ved
8 numer ous vi deos f r omMr . Coughl i n. I don' t know whi ch
9 vi deo he' s t al ki ng about .
10 THE COURT: I ' ve r ul ed on t hi s, si r . You
11 wi l l have 10 mi nut es at t he most t o get t hi s done.
12 MR. COUGHLI N: To do what ? I ' mnot
13 at t empt i ng t o r ef r esh hi s r ecol l ect i on t hr ough t hi s.
14 I ' mat t empt i ng t o have hi maut hent i cat e t he vi deo and
15 t est i f y t o whet her i t ' s - -
16 THE COURT: He can' t t est i f y t o t he ent i r e
17 vi deo, si r .
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , i t ' s not ver y l ong at
19 al l .
20 THE COURT: Wel l - -
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Pr obabl y a mi nut e l ong.
22 THE COURT: You wi l l be abl e t o do t hat r i ght
23 now wi t h Mr . Young r i ght now and t hen I wi l l come
24 back. I f Mr . Young has no obj ect i on, you can at t empt
Page 90
1 t o aut hent i cat e i t i f t hat ' s what you want t o do but
2 even i f i t ' s aut hent i cat ed, i t ' s not admi ssi bl e unl ess
3 i t ' s f or i mpeachment pur poses so I don' t know who
4 you' r e i mpeachi ng.
5 THE COURT: I mpeachi ng who?
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Mr . Li cht y and Mr . Gobl e and
7 Of f i cer Dur al de and Mr . Zar at e.
9 Wel l , t hen you wi l l need t o do what I sai d.
10 MR. COUGHLI N: And j ust t o cl ar i f y, t hat i s
11 t o r ef r esh hi s r ecol l ect i on or aut hent i cat e i t out si de
12 your pr esence, your Honor ?
13 THE COURT: Yes, al l of i t and t hen i f you' r e
14 done sooner , I ' l l come back sooner .
15 MR. COUGHLI N: And i f I i nt end t o show mor e
16 t han one vi deo, shal l we t r y t o do as much as we can?
17 THE COURT: Wi t h t hi s wi t ness, yes.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , okay.
19 ( A r ecess was t aken. )
20 THE COURT: Pl ease be seat ed. Al l r i ght .
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , I ' d l i ke t o ent er
22 f or t he r ecor d, I f eel ver y t hr eat ened by J i mLesl i e
23 her e. I ' d act ual l y l i ke t o move f or a pr ot ect i on
24 or der . He' s t hr eat eni ng me.
Page 91
1 THE COURT: Deni ed. You' r e not goi ng t o
2 wast e t he cour t ' s t i me anymor e.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Ver y t hr eat eni ng, si r .
4 THE COURT: He' s not t hr eat eni ng you, and I
5 or der ed hi mt o be her e.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay, yes, si r .
7 Your Honor , I ' d l i ke t o have Mr . Li cht y
8 aut hent i cat e a coupl e of vi deos and some 911 cal l s
9 t hat he was a per ci pi ent wi t ness t o.
10 THE COURT: He made t he 911 cal l ?
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I t hi nk hi s t est i mony
12 was t hey wer e made wi t h hi s phone t hat he passed t o
13 hi s f r i end, Cor y.
14 THE COURT: He sai d - - di d he make t he 911
15 cal l ?
16 MR. COUGHLI N: I mean, I t hi nk i t was made
17 wi t h hi s phone. Who di al ed i t , I don' t know. Hi s
18 voi ce i s on i t . I don' t bel i eve - - I don' t know. I ' d
19 l i ke t o get hi s t est i mony on i t .
20 THE COURT: Wel l , you' ve al r eady had hi s
21 t est i mony.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: Wi t h r espect t o t hi s.
23 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , bei ng t hat i t ' s a
24 bench t r i al , i t ' s a l i t t l e pecul i ar , but I ' mgoi ng t o
Page 92
1 be obj ect i ng t o al l but one of t he audi o/ vi deos t hat I
2 j ust hear d. One of t hemI ' mgoi ng t o have no
3 obj ect i on t o and t hat ' s f or st r at egi c pur poses onl y.
4 The ot her s I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect t o.
5 So you know, wi t hout you hear i ng t he vi deos,
6 you' r e not goi ng t o know whet her i t shoul d be obj ect ed
7 t o or not .
9 Br i ng t hemup her e and we' l l l ook at l east
10 t he begi nni ng of each one and see how i t ' s ger mane t o
11 t hi s wi t ness.
12 MR. YOUNG: The ot her t hi ng t hough i s because
13 Mr . Coughl i n i s at t empt i ng t o admi t t hi s as evi dence,
14 somet hi ng needs t o be mar ked and admi t t ed wi t h t he
15 cour t .
16 THE COURT: Wel l , we have t he DVD' s, r i ght ?
17 MR. COUGHLI N: I bel i eve you do, si r , r i ght .
18 THE COURT: Or t he CD' s. I ' mnot sur e what
19 t hey ar e.
20 MR. YOUNG: The ot her t hi ng i s I can addr ess
21 my obj ect i ons at t he appr opr i at e t i me but obvi ousl y,
22 on t he f r ont end i s j ust f or t he of f er pr oof as t o
23 what i t i s so your Honor can make a r ul i ng.
Page 93
1 Wel l , ar e t hey cued up and r eady t o go?
3 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , agai n f or you t o make
4 a r ul i ng, t her e needs t o be somet hi ng mar ked and
5 admi t t ed f r omt he cour t . Mr . Coughl i n pl ayi ng i t of f
6 hi s comput er , unl ess he want s t o admi t hi s ent i r e
7 comput er as evi dence whi ch I can' t i magi ne he does, he
8 needs t o pr ovi de somet hi ng t o - -
9 THE COURT: Ar e t hey vi deos or ?
10 MR. COUGHLI N: Si r , t hey ar e t he 911 cal l s - -
11 THE COURT: Ar e t hey audi os?
12 MR. COUGHLI N: Those ar e audi os.
14 MR. COUGHLI N: And t hen t her e' s vi deos.
15 THE COURT: Wel l , t he vi deos wi l l have t o be
16 admi t t ed. The audi os you can pl ay, and I can pi ck i t
17 up on t he mi cr ophone so.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. The vi deos ar e i n t he
19 cour t ' s f i l es, and Mr . Young has been pr ovi ded t hese.
20 They wer e at t ached t o - -
21 THE COURT: I have no vi deos, si r .
22 MR. COUGHLI N: On t he DVD' s?
23 THE COURT: I have an empt y somet hi ng you
24 f i l ed wi t h t he l ast st uf f you f i l ed t he ot her day and
Page 94
1 i t was an empt y l ooked l i ke a cover f or a vi deo. But
2 I don' t want t o wast e t i me on t hi s.
3 So go ahead. We' l l t ake t hemi nt o evi dence
4 i f we deci de t o use i t or i f - - you' l l have t o l eave
5 i t i n evi dence. Have i t mar ked - - what ever you' r e
6 goi ng t o do, have i t mar ked r i ght now.
8 THE COURT: We di d have an Exhi bi t A and B
9 whi ch wer e pi ct ur es of t he cel l phone whi ch wer e
10 admi t t ed.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: At a pr evi ous t r i al dat e,
12 t her e woul d have been not hi ng t o hel p me admi t i t i nt o
13 evi dence.
14 THE COURT: No, I under st and but di d you have
15 anyt hi ng ot her t han A and B t hat wer e admi t t ed?
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Mr . Lesl i e r ef used t o - -
17 THE COURT: I don' t want t o hear about Mr .
18 Lesl i e. Thi s i s your case now. So you pr esent i t as
19 best you can, si r .
21 THE COURT: Do you have t hemr eady t o be
22 mar ked?
23 MR. COUGHLI N: And, your Honor , j ust t o
24 cl ar i f y, t he cour t onl y r ecei ved one CD or DVD f r om
Page 95
1 me?
2 THE COURT: I di dn' t r ecei ve any.
3 MR. YOUNG: Ther e' s been no CD' s or DVD' s
4 admi t t ed i nt o evi dence i n t hi s t r i al or mar ked f or
5 i dent i f i cat i on even.
6 THE COURT: And none wer e r ecei ved ei t her .
7 MR. COUGHLI N: None wer e r ecei ved?
8 THE COURT: No.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: At t ached t o t he - -
10 THE COURT: Ther e was a t hi ng j ust l i ke t hat
11 t hat you have. I bel i eve I can f i nd i t , but I j ust
12 don' t want t o wast e t i me l ooki ng f or i t because r i ght
13 now, we' r e t r yi ng t o move on wi t h t he t r i al .
14 MR. COUGHLI N: Ri ght . So you woul dn' t have
15 r evi ewed t hemi n r ul i ng on t hose mot i ons?
16 THE COURT: I woul d not have r evi ewed
17 somet hi ng t hat you di dn' t f ur ni sh t o me, no, si r .
18 MR. COUGHLI N: But i t seems as t hough a
19 mi nut e ago, you i ndi cat ed you wer e sur e - -
20 THE COURT: I woul d not have r evi ewed i t i n
21 any event wi t hout havi ng - - her e' s t he envel ope, al l
22 r i ght . Ther e was not hi ng i n i t .
23 MR. COUGHLI N: And i s t hat t he cour t ' s usual
24 pr act i ce t o book i t i nt o evi dence - -
Page 96
1 THE COURT: No, i t ' s t he cour t ' s usual
2 pr act i ce not t o r evi ew somet hi ng whi ch has not been
3 submi t t ed t o t he ot her si de i n a t i mel y manner wi t hi n
4 10 days but f ur t her mor e, not t o r evi ew somet hi ng
5 t hat ' s not i n evi dence and i t ' s not i n evi dence.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: So even i f i t ' s at t ached as an
7 exhi bi t t o a mot i on, t he cour t woul d not r evi ew i t ?
8 THE COURT: I woul d not r evi ew i t wi t hout
9 gi vi ng t he ot her si de a chance t o r espond but r i ght
10 now si r , we' r e t al ki ng about - - al l r i ght . I ' mgoi ng
11 t o gi ve you about t wo mi nut es and i f you don' t have
12 t hose mar ked and r eady t o go, we' l l move on t o t he
13 next t hi ng.
14 MR. COUGHLI N: Al l r i ght , si r . Act ual l y at
15 t hi s poi nt , can I f i r st pl ay t hemt o i mpeach hi s
16 t est i mony?
17 THE COURT: No. Fi r st you need t o have t hem
18 mar ked as an exhi bi t and t hen you need t o ask hi mi f
19 he sai d t hi s and t hat on such and such- huh a dat e and
20 gi ve - - and t hen i f he says, " Yes, I di d, " i t ' s over
21 wi t h. You don' t even get t o admi t t he i mpeachi ng
22 t est i mony. I f he says, " No, I di dn' t , " t hen i f i t i s
23 and you cor r ect l y st at e exact l y what i t i s i n t he t ape
24 and he deni es i t , t hen you can pl ay i t , al l r i ght ?
Page 97
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Al l r i ght .
2 And you sai d I coul d pl ay t he audi o i nt o t he
3 r ecor d at t hi s poi nt i n aski ng hi m?
4 MR. YOUNG: You have t o aut hent i cat e i t
5 f i r st .
6 THE COURT: No. I sai d f i r st of al l , you
7 have t o have t hemmar ked as an exhi bi t ; have you done
8 t hat ?
9 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I bel i eve you sai d i f
10 i t ' s audi o, i t doesn' t need t o be an exhi bi t - -
11 THE COURT: No. I deci ded t o t he cont r ar y
12 because we' r e not - - you have i t , mar k i t .
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' msor r y, your Honor , i t ' s
14 j ust t he f act t hat I had t he hear i ng of my l i f e a f ew
15 days ago f or my Bar l i cense and i t ' s somewhat i mpeded
16 my abi l i t y t o pr esent her e and qui t e - -
17 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , you' ve known about
18 t hi s f or ever . I mean, I set t hi s t r i al a l ong t i me
19 ago. You wai t ed unt i l t he l ast mi nut e t o move f or a
20 cont i nuance.
21 As f or t he wi t nesses, af t er you had
22 subpoenaed 30 or 40 wi t nesses, t hen you deci ded t o
23 move f or a cont i nuance.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , when al l my subpoenas
Page 98
1 wer e quashed ex par t e by an e- mai l not i ce t o me, t hen
2 - - but you t ol d me when you set t hi s t r i al , t her e
3 woul d be no cont i nuances.
4 THE COURT: I di d based on t he f act t hat you
5 have had ampl e oppor t uni t y r epeat edl y and you wer e
6 her e when we pi cked t he dat e.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r . And j ust t o cl ar i f y
8 i f I have t hi s mar ked and moved i nt o evi dence, can I
9 t hen t ake i t back t o pl ay i t or wi l l I need t o - -
10 THE COURT: Si r , you can' t have i t mar ked and
11 admi t t ed i nt o evi dence. I f you want t o i mpeach a
12 wi t ness, f i r st you have t o conf r ont hi mwi t h t he pr i or
13 i nconsi st ent st at ement .
14 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' d l i ke t o do t hat now by
15 pl ayi ng t he audi o i nt o t he r ecor d.
16 THE COURT: No. You conf r ont hi mby aski ng
17 hi mt he quest i on, exact l y t he quest i on.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: And t hat can consi st of
19 pl ayi ng t he audi o?
20 THE COURT: No, speaki ng wor ds out of your
21 mout h. " I sn' t i t a f act t hat on t hi s dat e, you sai d
22 t hi s?"
23 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. Thank you, your Honor .
24 THE COURT: And pr eci sel y as i t i s i n t he
Page 99
1 audi o.
3 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
4 Q Mr. Lichty, isn't it a fact that on
5 August 20, 2011, you said, "I'm a minor. I'm 17. You
6 can't touch me."
7 MR. YOUNG: Asked and answer ed, your Honor .
8 He' s al r eady t est i f i ed about t hi s.
9 THE COURT: He di d so i t ' s not even a pr i or
10 i nconsi st ent st at ement . He al r eady t est i f i ed he sai d
11 t hat .
12 MR. COUGHLI N: No - - okay.
13 THE COURT: What ' s t he next one?
15 Q Did you ever demand that the suspect give you
16 his dog or his bike?
18 Q You're looking at Mr. Young again but please
19 just answer my questions.
20 A I don' t r emember . I don' t r emember even you
21 havi ng a dog. I r emember t he bi ke, but I don' t
22 r emember a dog.
23 THE COURT: Si r , t he quest i on I t ol d you you
24 coul d ask i s on t hi s dat e, di d you say t hi s, pr eci sel y
Page 100
1 what he sai d t hat you' r e goi ng t o i mpeach hi mwi t h,
2 not , " Di d you say anyt hi ng about a dog?"
3 The quest i on i s i sn' t i t a f act t hat on t hi s
4 dat e at t hi s t i me, you sai d t hi s?
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q Okay.
7 Isn't it a fact that on August 20, 2011 at
8 approximately 11:26 P.M. you said, "Give us the phone,
9 fagot?"
10 A I don' t r emember , i t ' s possi bl e.
11 Q Okay.
12 And I'd like to play --
13 THE COURT: Wel l , wai t , di d you i n f act
14 dur i ng t he r ecess pl ay t hat f or hi m?
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes. I bel i eve we di d.
16 THE COURT: Di d he, Mr . Young?
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Can you r epeat t hat agai n,
18 si r ? BY MR. COUGHLI N:
19 Q Is it true that on August 20, 2011, at
20 approximately around 11:25, you said to the suspect,
21 "Give us the phone fagot?"
22 A I t ' s possi bl e.
23 Q Okay.
24 Well, I'd like to play --
Page 101
1 THE COURT: Wel l , you sai d, " I s i t possi bl e?"
2 He sai d i t i s possi bl e.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: But he di dn' t say, " Yes. "
5 Then I wi l l al l ow you t o pl ay t hat por t i on of
6 t he audi o exact l y and ask hi mi f t hat r ef r eshes hi s
7 memor y because i t was uncl ear t o me as t o whet her or
8 not hi s memor y was r ef r eshed out si de t he cour t r oom.
9 So go ahead.
10 MR. COUGHLI N: He wi l l be abl e t o
11 aut hent i cat e t hat vi deo?
12 THE COURT: Wel l , you can go ahead and ask
13 hi m, " I s t hat your voi ce. I s t hat you t al ki ng?"
14 MR. COUGHLI N: Or i s t hat you i n t he vi deo?
15 THE COURT: What ever , I don' t know what you
16 have.
17 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , i s t her e an exhi bi t
18 t o be mar ked?
19 THE COURT: I asked hi mt o have i t mar ked but
20 I ' l l have i t mar ked af t er war ds. We' l l mar k t hi s as
21 Exhi bi t 1.
22 MR. YOUNG: I mean, he' s pl ayi ng i t of f hi s
23 har d dr i ve.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: No. Thi s i s of f t he di sk.
Page 102
1 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , t hen l et ' s have t he di sk
2 mar ked.
3 THE COURT: Wel l , t hen we' r e goi ng t o del ay
4 i t f ur t her .
5 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , I j ust want t o l et you know
6 my obj ect i on I guess.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: I can have i t mar ked i f you
8 pr ef er .
10 Pul l i t out and have i t mar ked. Do you have
11 t hemal l mar ked, si r ? Anyt hi ng you' r e goi ng t o
12 at t empt t o do r i ght now have t hemal l mar ked.
14 THE COURT: Because we' r e goi ng t o st op at
15 t en t o noon. We' l l be her e unt i l 12: 00 and by t hat
16 t i me, you' l l be f i ni shed wi t h t hi s wi t ness, si r .
17 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I can' t i magi ne t hi s
18 wi t ness even t akes unt i l noon.
19 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t know but t he way
20 he' s t aken so f ar , i t i s t hat ' s why I ' mt r yi ng t o
21 expedi t e t hi s.
22 Br i ng t hemup, si r , hur r y up. These wi l l
23 become par t of t he cour t f i l e but you wi l l be abl e t o
24 get copi es made l at er i f you need t hem.
Page 103
1 We need t o mat ch t he r i ght di sk wi t h t he
2 r i ght envel ope, si r . I f you can wr i t e on t he envel ope
3 what t he - - her e' s anot her envel ope i f you need one.
4 THE CLERK: He want s t o change t he wr i t i ng on
5 t he di sk.
6 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t know how he' s goi ng
7 t o change i t . He want s t o change t he wr i t i ng on i t ?
8 Go ahead. Wel l , who wr ot e i t or i gi nal l y?
9 MR. COUGHLI N: Me.
10 THE COURT: Wel l , t hen go ahead and change
11 i t .
12 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , whi l e he' s doi ng
13 t hat , can I check a message?
14 THE COURT: Yeah, sur e.
15 Can you j ust on t he envel ope, j ust wr i t e
16 somet hi ng f r om- - so we put t he r i ght di sk i n t he
17 r i ght envel ope, t hat ' s al l I ' mconcer ned about . Si r ,
18 i t doesn' t mat t er whi ch or der t hey' r e i n. You can
19 j ust t el l us whi ch one you' r e r ef er r i ng t o. Why don' t
20 you st ar t . Let ' s get movi ng. You can get t he ot her s
21 f r omher .
22 MR. YOUNG: I f I can see what Mr . Coughl i n i s
23 goi ng t o be pl ayi ng f i r st and what ' s goi ng t o be
24 mar ked.
Page 104
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 Def endant ' s Exhi bi t s 1 t hr ough 3 have been
3 mar ked. None have been admi t t ed. Leave i t up t her e
4 wi t h her and get back t o doi ng what you' r e doi ng.
5 ( Exhi bi t 1 t hr ough 3 wer e mar ked. )
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Al l r i ght . So may I pl ay t hi s
7 now, si r ?
8 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t her e' s been no
9 aut hent i cat i on.
10 THE COURT: I ' mgoi ng t o ask hi mt o pl ay t he
11 par t t hat deal s di r ect l y wi t h t hi s wi t ness and t hen
12 you ask hi mi f t hat ' s hi s voi ce.
14 MR. YOUNG: And I ' l l be al l owed a chance t o
15 obj ect ?
16 THE COURT: Yes, and I don' t t hi nk even car e
17 i f I hear i t .
18 MR. YOUNG: I under st and.
19 THE COURT: We' r e t aki ng mor e t i me set t i ng i t
20 up t han - - I do have a quest i on. Mr . Young, you di d
21 not obj ect t o t he quest i on i t sel f .
22 MR. YOUNG: What ' s t he quest i on?
23 THE COURT: About t he wi t ness cal l i ng hi ma
24 f agot , t hat was t he i mpor t of i t .
Page 105
1 MR. YOUNG: I bel i eve he' s al r eady t est i f i ed
2 so I obj ect ed asked and answer ed.
3 THE COURT: I mean, t hat ' s t he shor t summar y,
4 I mean i t ' s mor e t han t hat .
5 MR. YOUNG: The t est i mony t hat I r ecal l Mr .
6 Li cht y was t hat he used some wor ds, di dn' t r emember
7 what i t was and demanded t he phone back. So i f t hat ' s
8 what we' r e goi ng t o be hear i ng her e, t her e' s not hi ng
9 t o r ef r esh hi s r ecol l ect i on. Ther e' s no r eason t o
10 pl ay t he vi deo.
11 THE COURT: No, i t was whet her or not he was
12 goi ng t o i mpeach hi m, but he never deni ed i t .
13 MR. YOUNG: Exact l y. Ther e' s not hi ng t o
14 i mpeach hi m.
16 Then I wi l l sust ai n t he obj ect i on. Move on
17 t o t he next one.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: And f or aut hent i cat i on
19 pur poses, si r ?
20 THE COURT: No. I ' msust ai ni ng t he obj ect i on
21 as t o hi s answer on t hat t hat i t woul d not i mpeach hi m
22 because he does not deny t hat he made t he st at ement .
23 He si mpl y says he doesn' t r emember whet her or not he
24 made t he st at ement and f ur t her mor e, I don' t t hi nk i t ' s
Page 106
1 r el evant whet her he cal l ed you t hat or not .
2 MR. YOUNG: And I guess t hat ' s t he basi s.
3 He' s al r eady t est i f i ed he sai d, " Gi ve t he phone back. "
4 I f al l Mr . Coughl i n want s i n i s t he use of t he wor d
5 " f agot , " t hen t her e i s no r el evance t o t hat .
6 MR. COUGHLI N: And si r , I t hi nk i t woul d go
7 t o t he af f ect on t he accused and whet her t her e' s t hi s
8 he t est i f i ed t o a gr oup of 20 peopl e.
9 THE COURT: Okay.
10 Obj ect i on sust ai ned. Move on t o your next
11 quest i on.
13 Q Okay.
14 Did you say something to the suspect --
15 THE COURT: Not somet hi ng. Di d you say - -
17 Q "Did you say something to the effect of "Did
18 your butthole get widened while you were in jail?"
19 A I t ' s possi bl e, yeah.
20 THE COURT: When was t hi s now?
21 MR. COUGHLI N: I t hi nk i t was r i ght af t er t he
22 suspect was r el eased f r oma week i n j ai l .
24 t hat one, on r el evance, t wo - - wel l , i t ' s i r r el evant
Page 107
1 because accor di ng t o Mr . Coughl i n' s of f er of pr oof ,
2 i t ' s a week af t er t he of f ense. Ther e' s no r el evance.
3 THE COURT: Okay, t hat one i s sust ai ned.
4 Go on t o t he next one.
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q Did you ever threaten the suspect to break
7 his camera when he was interviewing you?
8 MR. YOUNG: I woul d obj ect as t o " ever , " i t ' s
9 over br oad. He can ask as f ar as t he ni ght of
10 August 20t h but beyond t hat , i t ' s i r r el evant .
11 THE COURT: Okay.
12 MR. COUGHLI N: I t hi nk i t goes t o t hi s
13 wi t nesses' s cr edi bi l i t y, si r , and i t f ur t her goes t o I
14 bel i eve - -
15 THE COURT: The wi t ness had an absol ut e r i ght
16 not t o t al k t o you.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: But t hey don' t have an
18 absol ut e r i ght t o t hr ow ci gar et t es on me, punch me,
19 cal l me a " f agot . "
20 THE COURT: Then you shoul d f i l e a cr i mi nal
21 compl ai nt agai nst t hem, si r .
22 So f ar as t hi s case goes, on t he ni ght of t he
23 al l eged t hef t , t hat ' s what we' r e t al ki ng about .
Page 108
1 Then I woul d l i ke t o pl ay t he wi t ness t hi s
2 911 cal l and ask hi mquest i ons r el at ed t her et o.
3 THE COURT: I s t her e an obj ect i on t o t hat
4 one?
5 MR. YOUNG: I don' t know whi ch cal l he' s
6 t al ki ng about but i s i t your cal l ?
7 MR. COUGHLI N: I t ' s t he one at 11: 26 and 20
8 seconds, i t ' s Gobl e' s cal l . I bel i eve t hi s i s t he one
9 wi t h ei t her Di spat cher Wei ss or Di spat cher Mont gomer y.
10 MR. YOUNG: I ' l l have t o hear whi ch one i t i s
11 and t hen I can l odge an obj ect i on at t he r el evant
12 t i me.
14 Go ahead.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: I can pl ay i t , si r ?
16 THE COURT: Yes, f or aut hent i cat i on pur poses
17 because i t ' s not f or i mpeachment .
18 MR. COUGHLI N: I t hi nk i t mi ght ul t i mat el y
19 wi nd up, si r , i f I can j ust pr eser ve t hat .
20 MR. YOUNG: I t hasn' t been aut hent i cat ed yet .
21 So i f he pl ays i t , t he wi t ness can say.
22 ( A t ape was pl ayed. )
23 MR. YOUNG: I s Mr . Coughl i n aski ng t o move
24 t hat cal l i nt o evi dence?
Page 109
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes.
2 MR. YOUNG: I have no obj ect i on t o t hat cal l .
3 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , i t ' s admi t t ed.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: I j ust want t he t r ut h t o come
5 out so I don' t have obj ect i ons t o ever yt hi ng l i ke Mr .
6 Young.
7 MR. YOUNG: I have obj ect i ons t o i r r el evant
8 and i nadmi ssi bl e evi dence.
9 THE COURT: Wel l , anyhow, i t ' s admi t t ed so
10 l et ' s not ar gue about i t . Anyt hi ng el se?
11 MR. COUGHLI N: I f I can i mpeach Mr . Li cht y
12 and ask hi mi f t hi s i s hi s voi ce sayi ng, " Gi ve us t he
13 phone f agot . "
14 THE COURT: I al r eady r ul ed on t hat . I s i t
15 your voi ce?
17 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , i t ' s done.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: So t hat ' s you sayi ng - -
19 THE COURT: He al r eady sai d " Yes. " Okay,
20 you' r e done. You don' t get t o ask i t f i ve t i mes.
22 Q Did you say that like to the suspect or who
23 you were saying it to?
24 A Pr obabl y t o you, i t woul d make sense.
Page 110
1 Q Why were you using the term "fagot?"
2 THE COURT: I r r el evant , sust ai ned.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , i f I may make an
4 of f er of pr oof ?
5 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , you sust ai ned t he
6 obj ect i on. Thi s i s t aki ng ent i r el y t oo l ong. When
7 you make a r ul i ng, your Honor , wi t h al l due r espect ,
8 Mr . Coughl i n needs t o move on. We ar e her e at 11: 30
9 now and we' r e st i l l on Mr . Coughl i n' s f i r st wi t ness.
10 Thi s i s get t i ng way t oo l ong.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: I j ust want ed t o r espond t o t he
12 obj ect i on. I t ' s my under st andi ng i f I don' t pr eser ve
13 i t f or t he r ecor d - -
14 THE COURT: J ust st at e i t . Go ahead what i s
15 your r eason?
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I t hi nk i t goes t o
17 whet her t he suspect was af r ai d of t hese yout hs.
18 MR. YOUNG: That woul d be ef f ect on her e whi ch
19 Mr . Li cht y i s not qual i f i ed t o t est i f y t o.
20 THE COURT: You' r e af r ai d because he cal l ed
21 you a " f agot ?"
22 MR. COUGHLI N: Ther e' s al so - - and I don' t
23 know i f you coul d hear i t but and t hi s i s wher e - -
24 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , si r , t he obj ect i on i s
Page 111
1 sust ai ned. Go on.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. I f I can j ust qui ckl y
3 ent er - -
4 THE COURT: I al r eady r ul ed on i t . Next t i me
5 I ' mgoi ng t o have you escor t ed out , al l r i ght . Go on.
6 Move on.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: I f I can pl ay hi mt he par t ,
8 si r , wher e I bel i eve i t ' s hi s voi ce sayi ng, " Gi ve me
9 your dog. I ' mgoi ng t o t ake your dog. "
10 THE COURT: We' ve al r eady hear d i t .
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Can I ask hi mi f t hat ' s hi s
12 voi ce sayi ng i t ?
13 THE COURT: Yes.
14 THE WI TNESS: I don' t r emember t her e bei ng a
15 dog but i t possi bl y coul d have been me.
17 Q Okay.
18 So if I play your voice --
19 THE COURT: You' r e not goi ng t o pl ay i t agai n
20 because I t hi nk i t ' s i r r el evant whet her you had a dog
21 or not .
22 MR. COUGHLI N: Not about whet her I had a dog,
23 whet her he was t r yi ng t o t ake t he dog or st eal t he
24 bi ke.
Page 112
1 MR. YOUNG: I r r el evant .
2 THE COURT: I f t hey wer e hol di ng i t , you can
3 char ge t hembut t hey di dn' t . You wer e hol di ng t he
4 phone, accor di ng t o what you sai d r i ght t her e.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: I di dn' t say anyt hi ng about
6 hol di ng t he phone.
7 THE COURT: Yes, you di d. You sai d, " You
8 r each i nt o my pocket , " t hat wasn' t you, si r ?
9 MR. COUGHLI N: You sai d you hear d my voi ce
10 say, " I f you r each i nt o my pocket , I wi l l sue you?"
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 MR. COUGHLI N: And you i nt er pr et t hat t o say
13 someone i s admi t t i ng t o hol di ng t he phone?
14 THE COURT: No. I di dn' t say t hat you
15 admi t t ed t o hol di ng t he phone.
16 Go ahead.
18 I t hi nk you r ul ed t hat I can' t - - so I don' t
19 want t o go agai nst i t - - br i ng up or go f ur t her i nt o
20 t hemt r yi ng t o st eal t he bi ke or you r ul ed t hat i t was
21 i r r el evant I bel i eve.
22 THE COURT: I sai d i t ' s i r r el evant t o whet her
23 or not you t ook t he phone, t hat ' s t he onl y i ssue
24 bef or e me, si r .
Page 113
1 You ar e char ged wi t h st eal i ng or t aki ng a
2 phone by l ar ceny or possessi on of st ol en pr oper t y, t wo
3 count s.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Wi t h i nt ent t o per manent l y
5 depr i ve - -
6 THE COURT: Wi t h ever yt hi ng t hat goes wi t h
7 i t .
8 MR. COUGHLI N: Ri ght and I t hi nk i t goes - -
9 THE COURT: Goes t o what ?
10 MR. COUGHLI N: The i nt ent t o per manent l y
11 depr i ve.
12 THE COURT: The i nt ent t o per manent l y depr i ve
13 i f t hey t ook your bi cycl e?
14 MR. COUGHLI N: No, i f someone di d, f or t he
15 sake of ar gument , have t he phone and t hey f el t t hat
16 keepi ng t he phone i n t hei r pocket mi ght be t he onl y
17 sor t - - ( i naudi bl e) t hat woul d pr event t hi s aggr essi ve
18 gr oup of yout hs - -
19 THE COURT: I ' mnot goi ng t o get i nt o t he
20 speci f i cs of t he case r i ght now.
21 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , Mr . Li cht y, who i s t he
22 wi t ness on t he st and, has no way of knowi ng what Mr .
23 Coughl i n j ust suggest ed.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
Page 114
1 The obj ect i on was sust ai ned. We' r e done. Do
2 you have any ot her quest i ons f or t hi s wi t ness now?
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay - -
4 THE COURT: Do you have any ot her quest i ons?
6 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
7 Q Mr. Lichty, if say you -- if someone was say
8 trying to steal you're dog or your bike --
9 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor . I see
10 wher e t hi s i s headed. Specul at i on.
11 THE COURT: Fi ni sh t he quest i on.
12 MR. YOUNG: I ' mj ust t r yi ng t o speed t hese up.
13 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . Wel l , l et hi mf i ni sh
14 t he quest i on.
15 Go ahead.
17 Q Yes, sir.
18 If someone was trial to steal your dog or
19 your bike, would that color your view as to whether or
20 not a phone they asserted was theirs was in fact
21 theirs?
22 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on.
24 Go on.
Page 115
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. May I pl ay t he next 911
2 cal l , si r ?
3 THE COURT: I don' t know what i t ' s about .
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Thi s one - -
5 MR. YOUNG: I f t hi s i s t he one t hat Mr .
6 Coughl i n made, I ' mobj ect i ng on hear say.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: Thi s i s not t hat one. I
8 bel i eve t hi s i s Mr . Gobl e' s second 911 cal l .
9 THE COURT: Go ahead and st ar t i t .
11 THE CLERK: What exhi bi t i s t hi s?
12 MR. COUGHLI N: These f i l es ar e al l f ound on
13 Exhi bi t 1.
14 THE COURT: You can st ep down f or a whi l e i f
15 you want t o. Thi s i s t aki ng so l ong.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: I wi l l obj ect t o t hat , your
17 Honor .
18 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t car e what you
19 obj ect t o. You' r e unpr epar ed and not r eady t o go.
20 I ' mgoi ng t o gi ve you about 30 seconds. I f you' r e not
21 r eady t o go, we' r e goi ng t o move on.
23 Q Mr. Lichty, did you witness anybody that
24 night or hear about -- holding -- picking the iPhone
Page 116
1 up and offering it up?
2 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, hear say. I don' t know
3 how many t i mes I have t o obj ect . He cannot ask what
4 Mr . Li cht y hear d somebody el se say. How many t i mes
5 have I obj ect ed t o t hi s?
6 THE COURT: Unl ess he hear d t he per son hol d
7 i t up. Di d you hear - -
8 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t hat ' s hear say.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor - -
10 THE COURT: That ' s not hear say i f he asks,
11 " Does anyone own t hi s phone?"
12 MR. YOUNG: That ' s t he ver y cl ear def i ni t i on
13 of hear say.
14 THE COURT: No. I don' t t hi nk so, t hat ' s not
15 of f er ed f or t he t r ut h of whet her or not someone owns
16 t he phone but - - i s t hat your quest i on, si r ?
17 MR. COUGHLI N: I t hi nk so, yes, si r .
18 THE WI TNESS: What was t he quest i on?
19 THE COURT: Di d you hear anyone t hat ni ght
20 hol d up t he phone and say, " Does anyone her e own t hi s
21 phone?"
22 THE WI TNESS: No.
24 Q Did you hear anyone say that they would throw
Page 117
1 the phone in the river if someone didn't claim it?
3 THE COURT: You can answer .
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q You don't know if you heard it?
7 A I don' t r ecal l i t but i t coul d be possi bl e.
8 I don' t know.
9 Q Okay.
10 And that's as to whether you heard that being
11 said. Did you hear anything about that later that
12 night?
13 THE COURT: That obj ect i on i s sust ai ned.
16 Q Was there anything you witnessed to indicate
17 that the suspect received the phone from somebody
18 else?
20 MR. COUGHLI N: I f he per cei ved - -
21 THE COURT: Di d you see someone el se gi ve t he
22 phone - -
23 MR. YOUNG: That ' s been asked and answer ed.
24 He al r eady sai d he di dn' t see Mr . Coughl i n end up wi t h
Page 118
1 t he phone.
3 The obj ect i on i s sust ai ned. Go ahead.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' d l i ke t o pl ay f or Mr . Li cht y
5 t hat second 911 cal l .
6 THE COURT: Go ahead and st ar t i t , si r .
7 ( The t ape was st ar t ed. )
8 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on hear say t hi s i s what I
9 bel i eve t o be Mr . Coughl i n speaki ng.
10 MR. COUGHLI N: I t ' s a l ot of peopl e speaki ng
11 and Mr . Li cht y i s vi si bl e and audi bl e on t he vi deo.
12 MR. YOUNG: And I don' t know t he r el evance of
13 what i s about t o be pl ayed.
14 THE COURT: Wel l , l et me hear i t and t hen
15 I ' l l r ul e.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: May I show t he vi deo as wel l ,
17 si r ?
18 THE COURT: You can br i ng i t up her e but
19 you' l l have t o show i t somehow t hat t he wi t ness can
20 see i t as wel l .
22 THE COURT: Unl ess you put i t over her e - -
23 ( The t ape was pl ayed. )
24 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I obj ect .
Page 119
1 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t t hi nk i t ' s
2 i nconsi st ent wi t h anyt hi ng.
3 Okay. Go ahead. I ' l l admi t i t .
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay, si r . And t hen t her e' s
5 anot her vi deo her e.
6 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t hat l ast vi deo, any
7 quest i ons as f ar as aut hent i cat i on, wher e do we st and
8 on t hat l ast vi deo?
9 THE COURT: Wel l , I amgoi ng t o admi t i t
10 because I t hi nk i t ' s sel f aut hent i cat i ng. I can see
11 t he par t y i n i t . I j ust want t o move t hi s on.
12 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r and i f I may do t he
13 same wi t h a coupl e of ot her vi deos qui ck?
14 THE COURT: No, you can' t do t he same wi t h a
15 coupl e of ot her s. You' l l have t o have a quest i on
16 about i t . Even t hat one i s i r r el evant .
17 MR. YOUNG: I t i s i r r el evant .
19 obj ect i on on t he ot her one. Go ahead. I ' mover
20 r ul i ng mysel f .
21 MR. COUGHLI N: And t hi s i s t he vi deo of t he
22 ar r est .
23 THE COURT: A vi deo by who?
24 MR. COUGHLI N: I t was a vi deo t aken by a phone
Page 120
1 of mi ne i n my pocket i mmedi at el y moment s bef or e t he
2 of f i cer ar r i ved and t hen t hr ough t he poi nt wher e he - -
3 MR. YOUNG: As f ar as aut hent i cat i on, Mr .
4 Li cht y can' t t est i f y t o t hi s.
5 THE COURT: Okay. You can t est i f y t o i t .
6 Si t down.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: But t hat ' s my Fi f t h Amendment
8 pr i vi l ege.
9 THE COURT: Wel l , t hen you don' t have t o put
10 i t i n evi dence.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: I know but pr evi ousl y you sai d
12 anybody t hat was t her e coul d aut hent i cat e i t .
13 THE COURT: No. I sai d i f t hey had per sonal
14 knowl edge.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: And he' s i n t hi s vi deo so he
16 does.
18 Then show hi mt he vi deo.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: May I appr oach?
20 THE COURT: Yes.
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , so t hat l ast vi deo
22 i mpeached hi s t est i mony. He' s shown i n t he vi deo
23 r eachi ng i nt o my pocket and l ungi ng and he' s al so
24 hear d sayi ng he' s a mi nor .
Page 121
1 MR. YOUNG: I woul d obj ect t o t hat
2 char act er i zat i on, I di dn' t see t hat .
3 THE COURT: Nei t her di d I .
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , i t mi ght necessi t at e
5 havi ng a cl oser vi ew of i t but i t ' s t her e. I woul d
6 act ual l y pr ovi de Mr . Young st i l l f r ames f r omt hi s t hat
7 ar e a hi gher r esol ut i on.
8 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , j ust t o expedi t e t hi s,
9 I wi l l admi t i t but go ahead.
10 So t her e' s t wo t hat ar e admi t t ed. Ther e' s t he
11 911 cal l and t he vi deo of t he i nci dent i t sel f . Go
12 ahead.
15 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , can he pause t hat ?
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Shoul d I pause i t , your Honor ?
17 THE COURT: Yes, go ahead and pause i t .
18 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , my obj ect i on, at t hi s
19 poi nt , i s we had a ver y speci f i c Mot i on To Suppr ess
20 hear i ng i n whi ch you made r ul i ngs, one of whi ch t he
21 phone woul d ul t i mat el y come i n but t her e was some you
22 st at ed as f ar as t he sear ch and some st at ement s t hat
23 wer e made wer e i nadmi ssi bl e. What Mr . Coughl i n now
24 want s t o pl ay i s t hat ver y epi sode. So l ong as Mr .
Page 122
1 Coughl i n knows what he' s doi ng, I j ust want t o br i ng
2 i t t o t he cour t ' s at t ent i on t hat t hi s i s sur r ounds t he
3 ver y mot i on t o suppr ess you i n par t gr ant ed.
5 MR. YOUNG: So l ong as he knows what he' s
6 doi ng.
7 THE COURT: You know what you' r e doi ng?
8 MR. COUGHLI N: Yeah because t her e' s no
9 buzzi ng. Ther e' s no vi br at i ng on t hi s.
10 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: You t ook out t he f eel i ng of
12 vi br at i ng so when you t ake out t he hear i ng - -
13 MR. YOUNG: Now, he' s t est i f yi ng and now i t ' s
14 ar gument at i ve. I ' mj ust br i ngi ng i t up.
15 THE COURT: You need t o pl ay i t . Go ahead.
16 MR. YOUNG: And i s he movi ng t o admi t t hi s as
17 wel l ?
19 THE COURT: Go ahead and pl ay i t .
21 THE COURT: Okay.
22 How i s t he r est of t hi s r el evant now?
23 MR. YOUNG: I ' mokay l et t i ng i t go.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Si r , i f I may - -
Page 123
1 MR. YOUNG: Bef or e we go on, i s Mr . Coughl i n
2 movi ng t o admi t t hat ?
3 THE COURT: He sai d he was.
4 MR. YOUNG: Okay. So l ong as t he r ecor d i s
5 cl ear i t ' s Mr . Coughl i n and not t he St at e movi ng t o
6 admi t , I have no obj ect i on t o t hat .
7 THE COURT: Okay, i t ' s admi t t ed.
8 Now, her e' s t he pr obl em, t hi s i s al l
9 Exhi bi t 1 but onl y par t s of Exhi bi t 1 ar e admi t t ed.
10 So Exhi bi t 1, t he f i r st 911 cal l , and t hen
11 t he vi deo of t he ar r est .
12 MR. COUGHLI N: And si r , i f I may, your Honor ,
13 I ' msor r y, I ' ma l i t t l e uncl ear but t he f i r st vi deo
14 pr i or t o t he pol i ce ar r i vi ng, t hat does show Mr .
15 Li cht y - -
16 MR. YOUNG: Ar gument at i ve. What he' s sayi ng
17 r i ght now, your Honor , i s ar gument at i ve. We st i l l
18 have a wi t ness on t he st and.
19 THE COURT: Yeah.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: Mr . Zar at e t est i f i ed as t o
21 j oki ngl y r eachi ng - -
22 MR. YOUNG: Ar gument at i ve.
23 THE COURT: Okay, si r , t hat obj ect i on was
24 sust ai ned on t hat vi deo. I ' ve gone back and f or t h on
Page 124
1 i t but I amsust ai ni ng t he obj ect i on on t hat vi deo. I
2 don' t car e i f he r eached i n your pocket or not ,
3 f r ankl y. I don' t know t hat i t ' s r el evant i n any way.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Not t o make me f eel f ear f ul
5 or - -
6 THE COURT: Wel l , i f you had someone el se' s
7 cel l phone, I guess you shoul d f eel f ear f ul .
8 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , we have a wi t ness on
9 t he st and, coul d we get back t o quest i on and answer
10 pl ease? I not e t hat i t ' s f i ve mi nut es t o 12, and I
11 not e you sai d ear l i er you sai d you wer e gi vi ng Mr .
12 Coughl i n unt i l noon wi t h t hi s wi t ness.
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I f you knew i t was t hat
14 per son' s but i f t hey' r e t r yi ng t o r each i n your pocket
15 mi ght t end t o make you t hi nk - -
16 THE COURT: I don' t car e what you t hought .
17 I ' ve t ol d you t hi s a whol e bunch of t i mes. We wi l l
18 hear f r omyou or your ar gument as t o your def ense, al l
19 r i ght ?
21 THE COURT: I don' t car e what he t hought ,
22 l et ' s put i t t hat way.
23 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay, but I t hought - -
24 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , can we move on. Mr .
Page 125
1 Coughl i n has f our mi nut es wi t h t hi s wi t ness?
2 MR. COUGHLI N: So i t r eal l y goes t o hi s
3 cr edi bi l i t y whi ch t o me i s any ni l consi der i ng a l ot
4 of t hi ngs he sai d bei ng i mpeached by t hese vi deos.
5 THE COURT: Hi s cr edi bi l i t y? You cal l ed hi m
6 as a wi t ness so you' r e i mpeachi ng your own wi t ness.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mi mpeachi ng t he whol e gr oup
8 and t he l i es t hey t ol d t hat wr ecked my whol e l i f e.
9 THE COURT: You' r e i mpeachi ng t hi s wi t nesses
10 what you' r e doi ng, t he wi t ness you cal l ed.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Ri ght and t hey' r e cl ose f r i ends
12 i n a gr oup.
14 Go ahead, si r .
16 Q Yes, sir.
17 This video, sir, contains Mr. Lichty making
18 -- giving his account of the events of that night
19 specifically indicating --
20 MR. YOUNG: I s t hi s a quest i on?
21 MR. COUGHLI N: No.
22 MR. YOUNG: Then I woul d ask t hat he ask a
23 quest i on.
24 THE COURT: He' s i dent i f yi ng t he vi deo and i t
Page 126
1 may save some t i me.
2 Was t hi s t aped af t er war ds?
4 THE COURT: Okay, i t ' s deni ed.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Can I i ndi cat e why I t hi nk i t ' s
6 r el evant ?
7 THE COURT: No. I ' mdenyi ng i t . Al l r i ght .
8 MR. COUGHLI N: I t was a r el evancy obj ect i on
9 t hough?
10 MR. YOUNG: Yeah. I ' mobj ect i ng as t o
11 r el evance because i t was af t er t he f act .
12 MR. COUGHLI N: Because i t goes t o show t hat he
13 l i es r eadi l y about j ust about ever yt hi ng.
14 THE COURT: What does he al l egedl y l i e about ,
15 si r ?
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Whet her he saw t he phone bei ng
17 gr abbed, who Ni col e Wat son and Lucy Byi ngt on' s names
18 ar e, j ust about ever y st at ement he makes and i t ' s
19 cont r adi ct ed - -
20 THE COURT: Okay. I ' mgoi ng t o deny i t
21 agai n.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay, si r .
23 THE COURT: You had an oppor t uni t y t o f ur ni sh
24 t hese t o t he pr osecut i on as wel l ear l i er t oday and you
Page 127
1 - -
2 MR. COUGHLI N: He' s had t hemf or a year , si r .
3 THE COURT: Okay. So? I asked you ear l i er
4 t oday t o go t hr ough t hese wer e hi mand t o conf r ont
5 t hi s wi t ness.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , t her e' s mor e t han t he
7 amount of t i me you gave us wor t h of vi deo.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 Go on t o t he next t hi ng because we' r e goi ng
10 t o be f i ni shed i n j ust a coupl e of mi nut es her e.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Shoul d I pl ay i t or shoul d I
12 ask hi ma quest i on?
13 THE COURT: I want you t o ask hi ma quest i on.
16 Q Upon doing that video, did you hear yourself
17 make any -- I think you might have ruled this
18 inadmissible, sir, so I don't know if I can ask this
19 question, not the arrest video, the first one where
20 he's saying, "I'm under age."
21 MR. YOUNG: I t ' s al r eady been asked and
22 answer ed.
23 THE COURT: I ' ve al r eady r ul ed on t hat t hr ee
24 t i mes, si r .
Page 128
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. You r ul ed on t he vi deo
2 not bei ng admi ssi bl e - -
3 THE COURT: I r ul ed t hat he admi t t ed t hat he
4 was 17 when he was act ual l y 18.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , what I ' mget t i ng at , si r ,
6 i s t he ext ent t o whi ch t hey' r e gami ng t he 911 syst em
7 and t hey know what t hey need t o say t o get t he
8 r esponse t hey want whi ch t hey got whi ch was an ar r est
9 t hat wr ecked my l i f e by sayi ng someone socked a mi nor .
10 THE COURT: No. They got an ar r est because
11 you r ef used t o r et ur n a cel l phone t hat al l egedl y was
12 i n your pocket , t hat ' s why you got ar r est ed, si r , and
13 i t was cl ear on t hat t ape, ver y cl ear .
14 MR. COUGHLI N: I t was cl ear whose phone i t
15 was?
16 THE COURT: No, i t was cl ear on t he t ape t hat
17 t he of f i cer gave you an oppor t uni t y t o sur r ender t he
18 cel l phone.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: When he sai d wel l , pr obabl y?
20 THE COURT: Okay. I ' mnot goi ng t o ar gue
21 wi t h you. Go ahead.
23 THE COURT: But I ' ve al r eady r ul ed on t hat
24 speci f i c i ssue. Do you have anot her quest i on?
Page 129
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. I j ust - - because t o me
2 i t ' s not t hat - -
3 THE COURT: I don' t car e t o you. Go ahead
4 and ask a quest i on. You' r e not goi ng t o ar gue wi t h me
5 agai n.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' msor r y, si r , I don' t mean t o
7 ar gue wi t h you.
8 THE COURT: You ar e.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I ' msor r y, si r , I don' t
10 under st and t hat i t comes acr oss t hat way, and I ' l l
11 t ake not e of t hat and not do i t anymor e.
12 THE COURT: Go ahead, si r
13 Al l r i ght .
14 We' r e done wi t h t hi s wi t ness unl ess t he St at e
15 want s t o cr oss- exami ne.
16 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I have no quest i ons.
18 You' r e f r ee t o go, si r .
19 MR. YOUNG: For t he r ecor d, i t ' s 12: 02.
20 THE COURT: I under st and but I was gi vi ng hi m
21 an oppor t uni t y t o ask a quest i on and he di dn' t . So
22 now we wi l l move on.
23 We wi l l cont i nue t hi s unt i l t hi s af t er noon,
24 si r . I woul d l i ke you t o i dent i f y whi ch wi t ness t hat
Page 130
1 was her e t hat you i nt end t o cal l because I ' mnot goi ng
2 t o have peopl e come back so -
3 MR. YOUNG: That was my quest i on was as t o Mr .
4 Li cht y, i s he f r ee t o go?
5 THE COURT: Yes, he' s f r ee t o go.
6 As t o t he ot her wi t nesses, I j ust need you t o
7 i dent i f y your sel ves by name and st ar t wi t h - - st and up
8 and say your name.
9 THE WI TNESS: Col t on Templ et on.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 Ar e you goi ng t o cal l Mr . Templ et on?
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 You' l l need t o come back at 1: 30.
15 Yes si r ?
16 THE WI TNESS: I ' mNat hani el Zar at e.
18 THE COURT: And t he f i nal one?
19 THE WI TNESS: Cor y Gobl e.
20 THE COURT: And Mr . Gobl e?
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , I do.
23 They wi l l be her e at 1: 30. I ' mgoi ng t o gi ve
24 you a hal f hour wi t h each of t hem. When a hal f hour
Page 131
1 i s up, t he St at e wi l l be abl e t o cr oss- exami ne no mor e
2 t han a hal f hour and t hen we' l l be done, t hat wi l l
3 t ake us at most t hr ee hour s.
4 MR. YOUNG: And, your Honor , j ust f or t he
5 r ecor d, Mr . Gobl e and Mr . Zar at e pr evi ousl y t est i f i ed
6 i n t he St at e' s case i n chi ef . So I under st and Mr .
7 Coughl i n has subpoenaed t hemback but j ust f or t he
8 cour t ' s i nf or mat i on, t hose t wo have al r eady t est i f i ed.
9 THE COURT: No, I under st and and you' l l be
10 abl e t o obj ect t o anyt hi ng t hat was al r eady t est i f i ed
11 t o pr evi ousl y.
12 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
13 THE COURT: Yes, si r , you' r e r ai si ng your
14 hand?
15 THE WI TNESS: I never act ual l y r ecei ved a
16 subpoena t o come her e t oday. I j ust came her e because
17 I t hought i t woul d be a good i dea knowi ng t hat t he
18 cour t was happeni ng t oday. I ' ve r ecei ved phone cal l s
19 f r omMr . Coughl i n t r yi ng t o subpoena me.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , i f he' s goi ng t o
21 t est i f y, can we have hi mswor n?
22 THE COURT: No. He' s not t est i f yi ng, si r .
23 THE WI TNESS: I j ust t hought he had cal l ed me
24 on t he phone t r yi ng t o ser ve me over t he phone.
Page 132
1 THE COURT: Wel l , when you come back, you can
2 move t o quash i t i f t her e was no subpoena, and I ' l l
3 r ul e on t hat at t hat t i me.
4 THE WI TNESS: Si r , so I do need t o be her e
5 f or t he r est of t he af t er noon?
6 THE COURT: Yes, you need t o be her e. I ' m
7 or der i ng you t o be her e not by subpoena. I ' mj ust
8 or der i ng you t o be her e at 1: 30. You can t al k t o Mr .
9 Young i f t her e' s some basi s t o quash t he subpoena t hat
10 was al l egedl y ser ved on you but l et me see i f t her e
11 even i s a subpoena. Do you have a subpoena f or Mr .
12 Gobl e?
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I bel i eve i t was i n t he packet
14 I di dn' t pi ck up t hat I gave t o t he cour t , your Honor ,
15 on Thur sday. I bel i eve t he cer t i f i ed sl i p pur suant t o
16 174. 345 - -
17 THE COURT: What I have i s Ni col e Wat son,
18 Lucy Byi ngt on, Col t on Templ et on, Aust i n Li cht y who' s
19 al r eady t est i f i ed, Rober t Dawson and t hat ' s i t and
20 Nat e Zar at e.
21 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , he' s al r eady her e. He
22 sai d he' l l st ay. So ar e we good f or l unch?
23 THE COURT: Yeah. Go ahead.
24 Ever yone i s excused unt i l 1: 30.
Page 133
1 You need t o l eave al l t he exhi bi t s wi t h t he
2 cour t , si r .
3 ( A l unch r ecess was t aken. )
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Page 134
1 *. *
2 RENO, NEVADA, MONDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2013, 1: 45 P. M.
3 *. *
4 THE COURT: Okay. Mr . Coughl i n, woul d you
5 cal l your next wi t ness, si r ?
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , your Honor . I f I
7 may i nvoke t he r ul e of excl usi on?
8 THE COURT: We wi l l but cal l your wi t ness.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: Mr . Templ et on, si r .
11 Si r , woul d you pl ease come up and t he ot her
12 t wo, woul d you wai t out si de. As I i ndi cat ed t hi s
13 mor ni ng, you wi l l be l i mi t ed t o one hal f hour per
14 wi t ness i f t hat .
15 THE COURT: Di d you say Mr . Templ et on?
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, Col t on.
17 THE COURT: Wel l , I t hi nk t hey mi sunder st ood
18 you. I f you' l l come up her e, si r , and be swor n r i ght
19 up her e. Woul d you r ai se your r i ght hand.
21 THE COURT: Pl ease be seat ed and t hen wi l l
22 you spel l your f i r st and l ast name and t hen you may
23 pr oceed, Mr . Coughl i n.
24 THE WI TNESS: C O L T O N, T E M P L E T O N.
Page 135
1 MR. YOUNG: J ust bef or e we st ar t , t hi s i s
2 bei ng r ecor ded?
4 MR. YOUNG: I j ust want ed t o make sur e t hat
5 t he cour t i s r ecor di ng t hi s per r equi r ement ?
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 Go ahead, si r .
9 COLTON TEMPLETON
10 EXAMI NATI ON
12 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Templeton. Thank you for
13 being here today.
14 Sir, have you seen any videos of any
15 interviews or of the arrest in question or the events?
16 A Any vi deos?
17 Q Yeah, like on YouTube or anything like that?
18 A No.
19 Q Okay.
20 Do you have some -- what was your
21 recollection of what happened on that day?
22 A I di d not see anybody t ake t he phone but once
23 t he phone had been t aken, I r emember goi ng over t her e
24 and you had i t i n your possessi on. I t was i n your
Page 136
1 l ef t pocket . We wer e cal l i ng i t , and we coul d see t he
2 phone l i ght i ng up t hr ough your pant pocket . We j ust
3 asked you t o gi ve i t back and you di dn' t so t hen we
4 cal l ed t he cops and t hey got i t f r omyou.
5 Q Okay.
6 Can we break that down a little bit, that's
7 a good overview and I appreciate that but could we
8 maybe start with -- and, your Honor, I think it might
9 be helpful I know to me and hopefully to the court if
10 Mr. Young doesn't have any objection to it, I'd like
11 to maybe I have some nice color give us some context
12 here --
13 THE COURT: Wel l , have t hemmar ked. I don' t
14 know why you di dn' t do i t ear l i er .
15 THE CLERK: Wel l , he t r i ed. I had st uf f I
16 was doi ng so - -
17 MR. YOUNG: Those ar e t he same t hr ee t hat you
18 j ust showed me. He j ust showed me t hat on t he br eak.
19 I have no obj ect i on t o i t . I have no obj ect i on t o
20 t hese, i f he moves t o admi t t hem.
22 THE CLERK: Exhi bi t s 5 t hr ough 8 ar e mar ked.
23 ( Exhi bi t s 5 t hr ough wer e mar ked. )
24 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , and t hey' r e admi t t ed
Page 137
1 as wel l baed on t he st i pul at i on of t he Di st r i ct
2 At t or ney.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , i f I may appr oach
4 j ust qui ckl y and l et you see j ust gener al l y what I ' m
5 r ef er r i ng t o her e?
6 THE COURT: Yeah, go ahead. I know wher e i t
7 i s and you can go ahead.
8 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
9 Q Mr. Templeton, could you -- the reason I got
10 these pictures out is I was hoping you could maybe --
11 if you could hold this and point to some stuff while
12 you're --
13 THE COURT: Can you i ndi cat e whi ch exhi bi t i t
14 i s?
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, t hat ' s Exhi bi t 6, your
16 Honor and t hi s i s a wi de vi ew shot t hat capt ur es some
17 of t he post of f i ce and al l of t he skat e pl aza and t hi s
18 Cent er St r eet br i dge.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: So t hi s i n f act mi ght be t he
21 best one t o wor k wi t h i n t hat i t has al l t hose ki nd of
22 l andmar ks.
24 Q Can you demonstrate where you were to start
Page 138
1 things, before anybody knew anything about a phone or
2 anything like that?
3 A The Pl aza j ust skat i ng wi t h my f r i ends.
4 Q You were kind of standing there right about
5 smack dab in the middle of that skate plaza?
6 A I don' t know. I was skat i ng ever ywher e
7 ar ound t her e.
8 Q So you were skating. You weren't just kind
9 of --
10 A No, I wasn' t l i ke si t t i ng or anyt hi ng.
11 Q You weren't sitting?
12 A No.
13 Q Were you maybe standing talking to somebody?
14 A I don' t r emember t hat honest l y.
15 Q Okay.
16 When is the first point you remember at which
17 something happened, okay, action is picking up?
18 A Some ki d came over and asked us i f one of us
19 had a cel l phone t hat somebody had j ust wal ked of f
20 wi t h i t . I di dn' t know i f i t was our s so I sai d " No. "
21 Then somebody el se went and t r acked t hemdown and i t
22 ended up bei ng Cor y Gobl e' s phone.
23 Q Okay, hold on, I'm sorry. I know I asked you
24 an open-ended question but if I may, I just want to
Page 139
1 kind of press pause and get a little more on target.
2 So if we stop at some kid, so it wasn't --
3 THE COURT: You can put t he phot o down. You
4 don' t need t o hol d i t up.
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q Yes, thank you sir.
7 So the first thing that kind of happened that
8 was different that was noteworthy was a kid came up
9 and made some communication to you; is that correct,
10 sir?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay.
13 Can you describe that kid?
14 A I cannot .
15 Q Is he 10 years old or is he 22ish?
16 A I ' mguessi ng a t eenager , 17 or 18, maybe.
17 Q Did he have like gauged ears?
18 A I t hi nk so.
19 Q Was he wearing like maybe a kind of
20 Affliction brand T-shirt something like that?
21 A I don' t r emember t hat .
22 Q Did he have like --
23 THE COURT: Mr . Coughl i n, t hey ar e admi t t ed
24 so I need t he phot os up her e.
Page 140
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Oh yes, si r .
2 THE COURT: The ones t hat ar e admi t t ed.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: And I ' l l j ust qui ckl y not e f or
4 t he r ecor d your Honor , i f I can Exhi bi t 5 i s f r omt he
5 t op of t he Cal - Neva par ki ng gar age ki nd of a bi r d' s
6 eye vi ew.
7 Exhi bi t 7 i s l ook nor t her l y on t hat Cent er
8 St r eet br i dge and Exhi bi t 8 i s mor e of a f i r st f l oor
9 of t he par ki ng gar age l ooki ng t owar ds t he ol d
10 Ri ver si de, good vi ew of t he skat e pl aza but not so
11 much cent er st r eet .
13 Q Okay.
14 So the kid was you would estimate how old?
15 A Sevent een or 18, somewher e i n t her e.
16 Q Okay.
17 And did you say he did have the kind of ears
18 with like the cork type fit into the earlobe?
19 THE COURT: He sai d t hey wer e gauged, you
20 al r eady asked hi m.
21 BY MR. COUGHLI N: Okay.
22 Q You say he came up to you and asked you if
23 what?
24 A Ther e was a gr oup of us and t hen he came up
Page 141
1 and he asked i f i t was any of our s. We di dn' t t hi nk
2 i t was. Then I t hi nk i t was Ni col e Wat son sai d t hat
3 Cor y' s phone had got t en st ol en and t hen so we came
4 over .
5 Q Okay.
6 So this gentleman with the gauged ears, he
7 wasn't a man who found the phone and was asking
8 people. He was a man who purported to have seen the
9 phone be stolen or?
10 A I bel i eve so, yes.
11 Q Can you tell us, kind of give us your best
12 recollection of specifically what he said?
13 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor obj ect i on.
14 THE COURT: Sust ai ned. Move on.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. Yes, si r , your Honor .
16 I j ust qui ckl y - - i t ' s of f er ed t o see why Mr .
17 Templ et on di d what he di d next .
18 THE COURT: He al r eady t est i f i ed what he di d.
19 He sai d someone came over and sai d t he phone was
20 st ol en and i t wasn' t obj ect ed t o bef or e but i t i s
21 obj ect ed t o now.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. Yes, si r .
23 THE COURT: So he went over t her e. We know
24 why he went over t her e.
Page 142
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay and, your Honor , may I
2 qui ckl y get i nt o some t est i mony as t o - -
3 THE COURT: You can. You' ve got about
4 16 mi nut es l ef t .
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q Was there any indication by anybody that the
7 phone, somebody ran up and grabbed it off a ledge or
8 did something different happen?
9 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , agai n, I ' mgoi ng t o
10 obj ect . I f he' s cal l i ng f or speci f i cs, now Mr .
11 Coughl i n i s aski ng f or t r ut h of t he mat t er asser t ed.
12 I di d not obj ect i ni t i al l y because i t was si mpl y what
13 di d you know, why di d you do t hat and i t was ver y
14 br i ef and we got t o t hat poi nt but now f or Mr .
15 Coughl i n t o ask gi ve me speci f i cs, what was
16 speci f i cal l y t ol d, agai n i t ' s hear say.
18 Unl ess t hi s wi t ness saw t he phone bei ng
19 t aken, I ' mgoi ng t o sust ai n t he obj ect i on.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay and I t hi nk t he quest i on
21 was j ust aski ng f or hi s per ci pi ent - - what ever he saw
22 or hear d.
23 MR. YOUNG: He' s al r eady t est i f i ed he di dn' t
24 see t he phone bei ng t aken.
Page 143
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. So I asked about what
2 somebody mi ght have t ol d hi m.
3 THE COURT: And t hat ' s hear say.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay, t hat ' s hear say, poi nt
5 t aken.
6 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
7 Q So the man with the gauged ears came up to
8 you and I remember Mr. Young said this, without
9 getting into too many specifics and that was probably
10 a wise travel tactic that he did so I'll say that.
11 Without getting into too many specifics and generate a
12 hearsay objection, I'll ask you what did you do in
13 response to whatever it is he told you?
14 A I skat ed over t her e t o wher e you wer e at on
15 t hi s br i dge.
16 Q Okay.
17 And so where --
18 THE COURT: Okay, wai t a mi nut e. When you
19 say on t hi s br i dge, whi ch br i dge i s t hat ?
20 THE WI TNESS: The Cent er St r eet .
21 THE COURT: Okay.
22 THE WI TNESS: I t was l i ke r i ght i n t he mi ddl e
23 of t he br i dge.
24 THE COURT: I ' l l show you what ' s mar ked as
Page 144
1 Exhi bi t 7 i s t hat a bet t er phot ogr aph.
3 THE COURT: And whi ch par t of t he br i dge was
4 he on, whi ch si de.
5 THE WI TNESS: We wer e on t hi s si de pr obabl y
6 about r i ght i n t he mi ddl e.
7 THE COURT: When you say " t hi s si de, " t hat ' s
8 t he west si de?
10 THE COURT: The west si de of Cent er St r eet ?
12 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . Go ahead, Mr .
13 Coughl i n.
15 Q Where was -- I'm just going to refer to
16 myself as the "suspect."
17 A Okay.
18 Q On that exhibit, can you hold it up and show
19 me and the court was where Mr. Coughlin was when you
20 first moved towards him?
21 THE COURT: The suspect or Mr . Coughl i n?
22 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , Mr . Coughl i n or t he
23 suspect . I ' mj ust t r yi ng t o avoi d sayi ng " me. "
24 THE WI TNESS: Sor r y. So what di d you want ?
Page 145
1 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
2 Q So once this gauged ear man told you whatever
3 he told you and it resulted in your focusing your
4 attention on the suspect, where was the suspect at
5 that point?
6 A I bel i eve he was al r eady on t he br i dge.
7 Q Okay.
8 So he was already on the bridge?
9 A Yes.
10 Q So about where on the bridge?
11 A I n t he cent er on t he west si de.
12 Q Okay.
13 So not quite right where the bridge starts
14 but --
15 A A l i t t l e bi t .
16 Q Okay.
17 And where ultimately did -- what happened
18 next? You saw the suspect in the center of the bridge
19 on the west side and then what happened?
20 A Ther e was al r eady a f ew peopl e ar ound you.
21 I hear d i t was my f r i end' s phone so I skat ed over
22 t her e t o see what was goi ng on. We asked you mul t i pl e
23 t i mes t o gi ve t he phone back, and you i nsi st ed you di d
24 not have i t .
Page 146
1 Q Okay.
2 Let me just stop you there. You say you were
3 alerted by the man with the gauged ears who I believe
4 -- this might be not be appropriate, Mr. Goble,
5 testified to that being the kid he didn't really know?
6 THE COURT: Wel l , he' s not Mr . Gobl e, ask
7 hi m. He' s al r eady sai d he di dn' t know t he ki d.
8 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
9 Q Okay.
10 Mr. Goble testified -- or no, I'm sorry. So
11 you're saying the gauged ear guy came up to you and
12 you don't recall who was with you in the group, might
13 it have been Nicole Watson or Lucy Byington?
14 A I honest l y don' t r emember .
15 Q Okay. He came up to you and said something.
16 You turned your attention on the suspect who was, from
17 your vantage point, at the center of the skate park.
18 He was center on the Center Street bridge westerly
19 side. Then next, and correct me if I'm wrong, you
20 seem to indicate it went from there -- was the suspect
21 alone at that point or were there already people
22 accosting him?
23 A Ther e wer e al r eady peopl e over t her e.
24 Q Okay, were they interacting with the
Page 147
1 suspect --
2 A Yes.
3 Q And who would those people have been?
4 A I don' t r emember exact l y who went over t her e.
5 Q Were they people you knew?
6 A Yes.
7 Q You just can't remember who exactly?
8 A Yeah. I don' t r emember whi ch ones i t was.
9 Q Do you know whether or not it was Mr. Goble?
10 A I bel i eve i t was.
11 Q Okay.
12 But it's not as though the man with the
13 gauged ears came up to you and whoever you were with,
14 Mr. Goble was right next to you, and you witnessed
15 that Mr. Goble being told something about a phone and
16 then immediately dart off over there or something like
17 that?
18 A I don' t r emember bei ng wi t h Mr . Gobl e when
19 t he ki d wi t h t he gauged ear s came up t o us.
20 Q And he -- I guess I can't get into specifics
21 what he told you -- your Honor, if I could just ask
22 for some clarification?
23 THE COURT: What di f f er ence does i t make what
24 t he gauged ear man t ol d hi m?
Page 148
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I ' mwonder i ng why i f he
2 f el t l i ke he t ol d t he r i ght per son i n Gobl e and he
3 sees Gobl e r un of f whi ch I don' t know i s t he case, why
4 he woul d keep goi ng and t el l i ng ot her peopl e. Maybe
5 i t ' s a r easonabl e t hi ng t o do.
6 THE WI TNESS: Maybe he di dn' t know whose
7 phone i t was - -
8 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
9 Q Okay.
10 So you don't know whether the people
11 accosting the suspect were doing something because
12 they were told by the same man you were that there was
13 some issue?
14 A Yes.
15 Rest at e t hat , pl ease.
17 Q The people that went up and accosted the
18 suspect, when you first trained your eyes on him at
19 the Center Street bridge, do you know why they had
20 trained their attention on him and went over and
21 accosted him?
22 A Because t hey wer e t ol d t hat you had a cel l
23 phone.
24 Q By who?
Page 149
1 A By t he ki d wi t h t he gauged ear s.
2 Q So you do know that?
3 A Yes.
4 Q You personally witnessed him telling
5 somebody, whom you can't remember, who then
6 subsequently went and accosted the suspect?
7 THE COURT: He never t est i f i ed anyone
8 accost ed t he suspect .
9 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
10 Q Well, what we're -- how would put it they
11 were over interacting with the suspect?
12 A Yeah, i nt er act i ng.
13 Q Okay.
14 And can you describe what that intersection
15 at that particular introductory point, did it look
16 like something dramatic was about to happen? Did it
17 look peaceful? How many people were there; was
18 anybody with the suspect, things like that?
19 A I don' t know how many peopl e wer e over t her e.
20 Q Was it 25 or closer to two?
21 A Cl oser t o t wo.
22 Q Was it three?
23 A Maybe, I don' t r emember .
24 Q Was it the man with the gauged ears, Lichty
Page 150
1 and Goble?
2 A That coul d possi bl y be i t , but I honest l y
3 don' t r emember .
4 Q So they might have been three initial
5 approachers who interacted with the suspect as a
6 threesome or a group of three?
7 A Yes.
8 Q They might have been but you're not sure?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Okay.
11 But how could the man with the gauged ears be
12 over there while he's also telling you something that
13 caused you to turn your attention on the suspect on
14 the bridge?
15 A I don' t know i f he was over t her e. I don' t
16 r emember seei ng hi mover t her e at t he ver y begi nni ng
17 because I was t oo f ar away. I coul dn' t see t hat .
18 Q Was Nathan Zarate near you?
19 A I don' t r emember i f he was near me at t hat
20 t i me. I know he was on t he pr emi ses.
21 Q You don't know if he was in the group
22 surrounding you though?
23 A I don' t r emember t hat .
24 Q Okay.
Page 151
1 So do you know where Mr. Goble was at that
2 time?
3 A No.
4 Q Do you have any recollection of some sort of
5 gentlemen who you might have referred to as the man
6 with the sixpack picking up a hat and saying, "Whose
7 hat is this?"
8 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor , hear say.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' msor r y, what di d he say?
10 MR. YOUNG: I sai d obj ect i on hear say.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Not goi ng t o pr ove t he t r ut h
12 of t he mat t er asser t ed.
14 obj ect i on.
17 Q So you really don't have any kind of what you
18 saw with your own eyes or heard with your own ears
19 knowledge of how the phone might have wound up where
20 it wound up?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay.
23 In fact, you recognize me from a previous
24 interaction?
Page 152
1 A Not f r oma pr evi ous one but f r omt hat act ual
2 day.
3 Q From that night?
4 A Yes.
5 Q After say I was released from jail six or
6 seven days later?
7 A Yeah, a week l at er .
8 Q Yeah.
9 Then do you recall me filming you?
10 A Yes, I do.
11 Q And then did you ultimately maybe start
12 filming me with your iPhone as well?
13 A I di d but t hat phone i s br oken, and I don' t
14 have i t anymor e.
15 Q Okay.
16 And you didn't save the data anywhere?
17 A No.
18 Q So from there, you're still in the center of
19 the skate park, skate plaza?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And there's a group interacting with the
22 suspect on that bridge. Then slowly -- so far you've
23 moved pretty fast, and I would just ask you to try to
24 go slower and with more specifics and detail and
Page 153
1 context where things are but could you slowly walk me
2 through the scenes of that particular let's say movie
3 of actually what happened, let's just put it that way.
4 THE COURT: Mr . Coughl i n, l et me j ust t el l
5 you t hi s i f he wal ks you t oo sl owl y, you' r e goi ng t o
6 r un out of t i me. So you may want t o get t o t he poi nt
7 of your exami nat i on.
8 MR. COUGHLI N: I know and I t hi nk t hi s i s i t ,
9 your Honor , because t hi s i s r i ght wher e I t hi nk t he
10 act i on st ar t s up. Sounds l i ke he doesn' t have any
11 per ci pi ent r ecol l ect i ons pr i or t o t hat poi nt and
12 ever yt hi ng t hat I ' mt r yi ng t o el i ci t f r omhi m, has
13 been r ul ed on as hear say so.
14 THE COURT: Let ' s get t o t he poi nt .
16 Q Okay.
17 So next?
18 A So we wer e t ol d t hat somebody had t aken a
19 phone. We t hought i t was our f r i end Cor y' s, and we
20 skat ed over t o t he west si de of t he Cent er Ci t y
21 br i dge.
22 Q "We" meaning who?
23 A Okay, I t ake t hat back. I skat ed over t her e
24 because now t hat I t hi nk about i t , I don' t r emember
Page 154
1 skat i ng wi t h anybody el se?
2 Q Okay.
3 A Over t o you.
4 Q But it was the guy with the gauged ears --
5 A No.
6 THE COURT: Thi s has been asked and answer ed
7 mul t i pl e t i mes.
8 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, your Honor .
9 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
10 Q Why did you think it was Cory's?
11 A Because we had al r eady got t en over t her e and
12 t hey wer e cal l i ng t he phone and i t was l i ght i ng up i n
13 your pocket .
14 Q Okay. Hold on.
15 You said, "We had already gotten over there,"
16 but at this point, you had not indicated you had moved
17 from the center of the skate plaza?
18 THE COURT: He j ust t est i f i ed he skat ed over
19 t her e.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. Fr ommy r ecol l ect i on,
21 he was st i l l i n t he cent er of t he skat e pl aza. He
22 r ei t er at ed t hat someone t ol d hi m- - he t ur ned hi s
23 at t ent i on on t he suspect .
24 THE COURT: He sai d, " We skat ed over t her e, "
Page 155
1 and you sai d, " Who skat ed wi t h you, " and he sai d, " I t
2 was act ual l y j ust me. "
3 MR. COUGHLI N: And I sai d - - but back up, go
4 back t o t he cent er skat e pl aza why - - at what poi nt
5 di d you f or mt he bel i ef t hat i t was Cor y' s?
6 THE WI TNESS: Cor y had put hi s cel l phone
7 down and i t was t aken f r omt he spot t hat i t was. So
8 he went over t her e and t hen we f ound out about i t or I
9 f ound out about i t and I went over t her e t oo.
11 Q Okay.
12 Earlier you testified you didn't know whether
13 or not Cory was over there but now it seems as though
14 you're saying now you do know and Cory was over there
15 interacting with the suspect; am I accurately --
16 A Sounds r i ght .
17 Q So you're remembering that now?
18 A A l i t t l e bi t , yes.
19 Q Okay.
20 And I'm sorry if this was obvious, your Honor
21 but how did you know it was Cory's or become aware
22 that Cory felt it was his or Cory was involved in some
23 way?
24 A They t ol d us t hat t he phone was st ol en.
Page 156
1 Q Who is "they"?
2 A The ki d wi t h t he gauged ear s.
3 Q Okay.
4 A And Cor y had r eal i zed hi s phone was wher e
5 t hat was at t he t i me t hat i t was t aken so he assumed
6 t hat i t was hi s.
7 Q So earlier when you said you didn't recall
8 who was with you in that group that you were standing
9 around or skating with, now it seems apparent that
10 Cory Goble would necessarily have to be there?
11 A Sur e. I honest l y do not r emember hi m
12 st andi ng next t o me.
13 Q Okay.
14 Maybe it doesn't mean he had to be there but
15 somehow you became aware that Cory felt -- Cory was
16 aware his phone was no longer where he had set it?
17 A Uh- huh.
18 Q And that would have been in the center of the
19 skate plaza?
20 A That he set hi s phone?
21 Q Yes.
22 A I t hi nk he set i t al ong t he edge on t he
23 cement l i ke seat s or what ever t hey ar e.
24 Q Like on top of the ledge or?
Page 157
1 A I honest l y don' t know wher e hi s phone was, i t
2 was over t her e somewher e. I j ust don' t know wher e i t
3 was, i f i t was on t he gr ass, i f i t was on t he l edge or
4 wher e.
5 Q Okay.
6 And then -- okay. So then to bring it to
7 where we were, you're still in the middle of the skate
8 plaza. Now you're aware something is amiss with
9 Cory's phone. You perceive Cory to be over on the
10 bridge with some other people or alone with this
11 suspect?
12 A I t hi nk t her e was one or t wo ot her peopl e but
13 I coul d be wr ong.
14 Q Was one of those people the young man with
15 the gauged ears?
17 Q Could be but could also not be?
18 A Yes, i t ' s a possi bi l i t y.
19 Q But if it was him, he would have had to tell
20 you whatever he told you and then go right over there
21 to?
22 A Yeah.
23 Q Okay.
24 Was Austin Lichty somewhere in this?
Page 158
1 A He was somewher e, I don' t know wher e.
2 Q And you don't know if it was he was one of
3 the ones interacting --
4 A No.
5 Q So then what, did you notice something amiss
6 happening over on the bridge or the situation seeming
7 to get more urgent in some way?
8 A A l i t t l e bi t . I not i ced t hat ever ybody t hat
9 I had been wi t h was gone over t her e and t hen I went
10 over t her e.
11 Q Okay.
12 But as far as your eyewitnessing things, the
13 suspect, from your vantage point, started at the same
14 point on the bridge where he essentially was arrested
15 later, give or take I don't know a couple of feet or
16 something?
17 A Yes.
18 Q So he didn't try to leave?
19 A No.
20 Q Nobody was stopping him from leaving; what
21 was he doing?
22 A He was st andi ng t her e wi t h hi s bi ke and hi s
23 dog and woul d not gi ve us t he phone back.
24 Q Was he holding his dog?
Page 159
1 A I honest l y don' t r emember .
2 Q Okay.
3 So back up to you're still at the center of
4 the skate plaza. You noticed more people. I didn't
5 hear you say there was more urgency that caused you to
6 go over there but more like more people were over
7 there?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And therefore, you maybe were curious as to
10 why a crowd was gathering and went over there?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And then once you approached, were there any
13 police officers there at that point?
14 A No.
15 Q Then what did you notice upon approaching or
16 hear or notice or see?
17 A I j ust hear d ever ybody aski ng you t o gi ve us
18 t he phone back and t hen r epeat edl y cal l i ng i t .
19 Q Who called it?
20 A I don' t r emember whose phone cal l ed i t . I
21 t hi nk i t mi ght have been Aust i n' s but I ' mnot sur e.
22 Q Was it Austin calling it with his phone or
23 was somebody else using his phone?
Page 160
1 Q But you somehow remember somebody was calling
2 it?
3 A Yeah. I don' t r emember who was cal l i ng i t ?
4 MR. COUGHLI N: That i s a r ecur r i ng t hi ng i n
5 t hi s case.
6 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor ,
7 ar gument at i ve.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: I wi t hdr aw i t .
10 THE COURT: You have t hr ee mi nut es l ef t .
12 Q Yes, sir.
13 Okay.
14 So you say -- how do you know somebody was
15 calling because you saw them calling it?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Was there -- did you hear the phone buzzing
18 or anything like that?
19 A I di dn' t hear i t but I coul d see t he l i ght
20 t hr ough your pant pocket .
21 Q Did anybody say, "Hey, I see that light
22 through your pant pocket?"
23 A I t hi nk we di d, yes.
24 Q So you made some kind of commentary right
Page 161
1 when you saw it?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And then what happened?
4 A You kept denyi ng t hat i t ' s not your s or t hat
5 i t was not our s.
6 Q How so specifically? What question was asked
7 and what answer was given?
9 Q You don't remember anything about that?
10 THE COURT: He di dn' t say he di dn' t r emember
11 anyt hi ng. He sai d he di dn' t r emember speci f i cal l y
12 what quest i on was asked and answer ed.
15 Q Can you give me a little more detail what you
16 do remember with respect to that asked and answered?
17 A I don' t know.
18 Q You can't?
19 A We wer e aski ng you t o gi ve us t he phone back
20 and i t kept l i ght i ng up and t hat ' s about i t .
21 Q Did you keep calling over and over and say,
22 "Look, we see it lighting up, it coincides with us
23 calling, give it up." Was it like that or -- you only
24 called one time?
Page 162
1 A I ' mpr et t y sur e we cal l ed mul t i pl e t i mes.
2 Q You called multiple times?
3 A I t hi nk so.
4 Q Did it just keep lighting up every time?
5 A Yes.
6 Q So it was just like obvious?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay.
9 So you would call and then you stopped and
10 you talked some more and then you said, "Look, it's
11 lighting up, it's lighting up," and then a little
12 while would go by and you would call and get somebody
13 else or the same person would call again and it would
14 light up and you would say, "Common, look. There's a
15 correlation." Is it like that?
16 A I wasn' t sayi ng t hat ' s obvi ous or somet hi ng
17 but i t was l i ght i ng up. I don' t r emember speci f i cal l y
18 sayi ng anyt hi ng t o you t hat i t i s l i ght i ng up. I
19 r emember ot her peopl e sayi ng t hat .
20 Q Okay.
21 And that was on more than one instance where
22 you were aware somebody was calling it and then either
23 you perceived it light up or somebody announced seeing
24 it light up or something like that?
Page 163
1 A Yes.
2 Q More than one instance?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay.
5 And then what happened?
6 A You kept denyi ng i t and sayi ng t hat i t ' s not
7 our s. We cal l ed t he cops and t he cop asked you,
8 " Look, do you have t he phone. I f you do, j ust gi ve i t
9 back and we' l l dr op al l t hi s. " You sai d, " No, I don' t
10 have i t , " and he pul l ed i t out of your pocket and
11 asked Cor y f or t he pass code. Cor y gave hi mt he pass
12 code. He asked hi mf or hi s cont act i nf or mat i on, and
13 he t ol d peopl e who wer e i n hi s cont act s.
14 Q Okay.
15 When he pulled it out of my pocket, was I in
16 handcuffs at that point?
18 Q Did you hear the police officers say anything
19 to each other?
20 A No.
21 Q Did you hear anybody say, "Well, if it's not
22 in his right pocket, maybe switch it over to his left
23 pocket," or anything like that?
24 A No.
Page 164
1 Q Did you see the police officer patting the
2 suspect down, shortly after arriving on the scene?
3 A Pat t i ng you down?
4 Q Yeah, like checking for weapons?
5 A I don' t r emember t hat but I r emember t hem
6 gr abbi ng t he phone.
7 Q Do you recall hearing the suspect scream or
8 yelling, "You're touching my penis," or something like
9 that?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay.
12 You don't recall hearing any yelling like
13 that?
14 A No.
15 Q So you testified that the officer said, "If
16 you have a phone --
17 THE COURT: Okay, t i me i s up. I ' l l gi ve you
18 one mor e quest i on. You' ve gone t hr ee mi nut es past or
19 t wo mi nut es past .
22 Q So how would you describe the suspect's
23 interaction with the officer or officers, his
24 demeanor, his level of cooperation and that kind of
Page 165
1 thing?
2 A You seemed f i ne. You j ust t ol d t hemyou
3 di dn' t have i t .
4 Q Okay.
5 Was there -- do you think the officer -- do
6 you recall seeing the officer initially pat the
7 suspect down, check for weapons and then do something
8 else for a while and then come back and place his hand
9 on the suspect's leg or anything like that?
10 A I don' t r emember hi mpat t i ng you down, no.
11 Q You don't remember the initial pat down or
12 anything like that?
13 A No.
14 Q Do you remember the one officer yelling at
15 you, "Back off, let us do our job," something like
16 that?
17 A I r emember t hat , yes.
18 Q Okay.
19 Do you recall seeing the officer, once he had
20 arrested the suspect, taking the phone out of his
21 pocket interact with Cory in some way, take the
22 suspect back to his car and then slam the suspect's
23 head on the back of the trunk of the police vehicle?
24 A I di d not see t hat .
Page 166
1 Q Okay.
2 Do you recall seeing anybody like Austin
3 Lichty or anybody else make a joking reach into the
4 suspect's pocket?
5 THE COURT: Okay, t hat ' s mor e t han one
6 quest i on, i t ' s mor e t han f our quest i ons.
7 So do you have any cr oss?
8 MR. YOUNG: I have no cr oss. Thank you.
9 THE COURT: You' r e f r ee t o go, si r .
10 MR. COUGHLI N: Thank you, Mr . Templ et on.
11 THE COURT: Who do you want next ?
12 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , i f I may cal l Cor y
13 Gobl e, pl ease, si r ?
15 And si nce Mr . Gobl e t est i f i ed bef or e, as I
16 i ndi cat ed ear l i er , i f you' r e aski ng hi mt o r est at e
17 anyt hi ng he sai d on di r ect , t he Di st r i ct At t or ney wi l l
18 have t he r i ght t o obj ect . So I woul d suggest you ask
19 hi msomet hi ng new t hat you di dn' t ask hi mbef or e.
21 THE COURT: Or wasn' t asked of hi mbef or e.
23 THE COURT: Woul d you pl ease r ai se your r i ght
24 hand, si r .
Page 167
2 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
3 CORY GOBLE
4 EXAMI NATI ON
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q Hi, Mr. Goble. Thanks for showing up today.
7 I appreciate it.
8 Can you describe to me -- your Honor, if I
9 may give Mr. Goble that picture as well?
10 THE COURT: The pi ct ur es ar e al l her e.
12 THE COURT: But don' t mi x i n your own
13 pi ct ur es wi t h t he exhi bi t s.
16 Q I stated for the record, I'm showing Mr.
17 Goble Exhibit 6 and I'm asking him to take it -- if
18 you'll just hold that Mr. Goble.
19 If you can just indicate, sir, and if you'll
20 hold it up so Honorable Judge Sferrazza will be able
21 to see it. Before any indication of any of the events
22 in question here happened, will you point to where you
23 were in the skate plaza and indicate what you were
24 doing?
Page 168
1 A Ri ght her e i n t he pl aza r i di ng my skat eboar d.
2 Q Okay.
3 Will you show that to me, sir?
4 A The pl aza i s one ar ea. I was i nsi de t he
5 pl aza r i di ng my skat eboar d.
6 Q Okay.
7 So you were in there riding your skateboard?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Did you drive there that day?
10 A No, I don' t bel i eve I di d.
11 Q What do you drive?
12 A I don' t dr i ve.
13 Q At that time, did you have a vehicle?
14 A I don' t bel i eve I di d, no. I honest l y can' t
15 r emember i f I dr ove t hat ni ght or not .
16 .
17 Q Have you ever had a Jeep?
19 THE COURT: What i s t he r el evance, si r ?
20 MR. COUGHLI N: I have t o r eveal t hat now?
21 MR. YOUNG: I f he' s t r yi ng t o f i gur e out ask
22 hi mhi s dat e of bi r t h or what vehi cl e he dr i ves,
23 t her e' s no r el evance.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: I t has r el evance. Ther e' s
Page 169
1 subsequent - -
2 THE COURT: Subsequent has no r el evance.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: - - medi a t hat I coul d i nt r oduce
4 t hat woul d bear on t he i ssue.
5 THE COURT: Subsequent medi a?
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , medi a t hat I coul d
7 subsequent l y i nt r oduce i nt o evi dence.
8 THE COURT: Unl ess i t has somet hi ng t o do
9 wi t h you al l egedl y t aki ng t he cel l phone - - wel l ,
10 st at e what i t i s.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , yes, si r your Honor .
12 Whi l e t he compl ai nt i s not t hat speci f i c i n
13 t he f act s t hat suppor t t he i ndi vi dual el ement s of t he
14 cr i me and I know we - - i n a pr et r i al memor andum, we
15 got i nt o t he di f f er ences bet ween Washoe Count y code
16 and N R S, but I ant i ci pat e Mr . Young i s goi ng t o
17 pur sue a l ost , mi sl ai d, abandoned as l ar ceny appr oach
18 her e unl ess he goes f or t he wal k up and gr ab t hi ng and
19 t hat r emai ns t o be seen.
20 Ther e hasn' t been t hat much t est i mony t hat I
21 r ecal l speci f i cal l y i ndi cat i ng how t he suspect was
22 al l eged t o have come i nt o possessi on of what . Wher e
23 Mr . Gobl e was i f t hi s i s a l ost , mi sl ai d or abandoned
24 deal woul d bear on a mat er i al f act i n i ssue. Mr .
Page 170
1 Gobl e' s t est i mony her e wi t h r espect t o wher e he was
2 may i ndi cat e vor aci t y i ssues wi t h r espect t o i f
3 he' s - -
4 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , i t ' s over r ul ed. The
5 obj ect i on i s sust ai ned. Go ahead ask your next
6 quest i on.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mt r yi ng t o r emember what
8 t he quest i on was.
9 MR. YOUNG: The quest i on was di d you ever
10 have a J eep.
12 Q Okay.
13 So your testimony is you don't recall if you
14 drove there that night or how you got there?
15 A I have no i dea.
16 Q Okay.
17 And you were pretty much located in the
18 center of the skate plaza with your skateboard,
19 skateboarding or talking to people. Okay. Had you
20 set your phone down somewhere previously?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay.
23 Where was that?
24 A I nsi de a bl ue L A basebal l hat on t he l edge
Page 171
1 r i ght behi nd t he st r eet l i ght .
2 Q Okay.
3 Could you show that to us and describe it in
4 verbal terms too because we can't see it?
5 A I j ust descr i bed i t i n ver bal t er ms but I ' l l
6 r epeat i t agai n. My phone was r i ght behi nd t hi s
7 st r eet l i ght on t hi s l edge.
8 Ther e' s a l edge t hat ci r cl es t he pl aza, i t ' s
9 about a f oot hi gh, and my phone was si t t i ng i nsi de my
10 hat , a basebal l hat t hat bel onged t o me and my hat was
11 i nsi de or my cel l phone was i nsi de t he hat si t t i ng on
12 t he l edge.
13 Q On the ledge, not on the ground?
14 A On t he l edge.
15 Q Because you were skateboarding, phones can
16 fall it?
17 A Di dn' t want i t t o br eak exact l y, yes.
18 Q Okay.
19 What happened from there?
20 A Fr omwher e? Fr omwhat ? You never gave me a
21 poi nt of r ef er ence?
22 Q Okay.
23 From what I understand, your phone is on the
24 ledge on the northerly side of the exterior of the
Page 172
1 skate plaza. You were in the center skateboarding or
2 interacting with say friends or somebody. What
3 relevant event happened next that maybe changed what
4 you were doing?
5 A I was goi ng t o check on my phone.
6 Q You went to go check on it?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And did you notice it wasn't there or
9 something like that?
10 A Yes, I di d.
11 Q And then you asked, "Has anybody seen my
12 phone," or something like that?
13 A I j ust sai d out l oud I sai d, excuse me, my
14 l anguage but I sai d, " Wher e i s my phone?" Out l oud, I
15 sai d, " Wher e t he F i s my phone, " and I sai d t hat out
16 l oud and yeah, what el se?
17 Q Okay.
18 Previous to that, had you heard any man
19 holding up a hat and saying, "Whose hat is this," loud
20 enough so --
22 THE COURT: Wel l , I wi l l al l ow t hat quest i on
23 because i t ' s not of f er ed f or t he t r ut h of what he sai d
24 but - -
Page 173
1 THE WI TNESS: You' r e aski ng i f I saw an
2 i ndi vi dual hol d up my hat and say, " Whose hat i s
3 t hi s?"
5 THE WI TNESS: No si r , I di d not see t hat
6 happen. I guar ant ee i f I saw i t happen, I woul d have
7 not i ced, i t ' s a br i ght bl ue basebal l cap, and I woul d
8 have seen someone wai vi ng i t ar ound sayi ng, " Whose i s
9 t hi s. I was, at t he most , 20 f eet away. I woul d have
10 seen t hat , yes.
12 Q If that would have occurred?
13 A I woul d t hi nk I woul d have seen t hat , yes.
14 Q Okay.
15 You would have to assume that didn't occur?
16 A I woul d assume t hat di d not occur .
17 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor , cal l s f or
18 an assumpt i on.
20 THE COURT: Wel l , t he obj ect i on i s sust ai ned.
21 He can' t assume anyt hi ng.
23 THE COURT: He j ust di dn' t see i t happen,
24 t hat ' s al l we know.
Page 174
1 THE COURT: Or hear i t .
2 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
3 Q Did you have headphones on or anything like
4 that?
5 A No, si r .
6 Q Okay.
7 At that time, had you gone over to Virginia
8 Street to do anything in anybody's car, hangout in any
9 way?
10 A No, si r .
11 Q If there was a 911 call that you made that
12 said, "My Jeep was right there," what would that have
13 been referring to?
14 A I f i t was par ked, we par k l i t er al l y j ust i n
15 t hi s ar ea r i ght wher e t hi s j eep i s, i t ' s not my J eep.
16 I don' t even know i f t hat i s a j eep but r i ght her e
17 wher e t hi s car i s par ked by t he mobi l e home i s wher e
18 we par k our vehi cl es.
19 Q So you can park over the curb?
20 A Ther e' s l i ke a l i t t l e openi ng r i ght her e and
21 t hey never car e. No one ever car es i f you par k t her e.
22 Q Okay.
23 So you would have been parking on Virginia
24 Street but you would have been kind of -- that kind of
Page 175
1 mobile home thing where the ice rink is --
2 THE COURT: You' r e poi nt i ng t o i t i n t he
3 pi ct ur e.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , but i t ' s an audi o
5 r ecor d.
6 THE COURT: Wel l , have hi mmar k t he spot i f
7 you want t o a r ecor d. Mar k t he pol e t hat your phone
8 was by and put " phone" and t hen mar k t he spot wher e
9 t he J eep was by and put " J eep" i f t he J eep was t her e.
10 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , hi s t est i mony i s he
11 doesn' t r ecal l - -
12 THE COURT: I know but he sai d i f hi s J eep
13 was t her e, i t woul d have been par ked and he poi nt ed t o
14 a spot .
16 Q Okay.
17 So it seems where we left off you went over
18 to check where your phone was placed in a hat on the
19 ledge on the northerly side of skate plaza. You asked
20 where it was. You were probably worried about it, as
21 most anybody would be I imagine.
22 At that point, what happened next that kind
23 of moved the events along?
24 A When I r eal i zed t hat my phone wasn' t i n my
Page 176
1 hat ?
2 Q Yes.
3 A I sai d, " Wher e i s my phone?"
4 An i ndi vi dual t hat happened t o be r i ght next
5 t o wher e my hat was si t t i ng sai d, " That was your
6 phone, " as a quest i on. I sai d, " Yes. " And he sai d,
7 " That man, " r ef er r i ng t o you, you woul d be t hat man,
8 " Has i t r i di ng away on t he bi ke, " and he was t r avel i ng
9 sout h r i ght t hat way.
10 Q Towards the Center Street bridge?
11 A Yes.
12 THE COURT: When you say sout h, do you mean
13 east ?
14 THE WI TNESS: I bel i eve t hat ' s sout h because
15 nor t h Cent er St r eet r uns sout h I bel i eve.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: I f Cal - Neva i s nor t h, your
17 Honor .
18 THE COURT: So he was headi ng sout h on Cent er
19 St r eet ?
20 THE WI TNESS: He was headi ng sout h on Cent er
21 St r eet , r i ght , her e j ust - -
22 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , I under st and.
24 Q Was the suspect darting off or otherwise
Page 177
1 seeming to maybe attempt to flee or get away?
2 A I woul d put i t as subt l y l eavi ng t he scene.
3 You di dn' t bi ke of f super qui ck. You t r i ed t o make i t
4 l ook l i ke not hi ng was happeni ng.
5 Q Did he take a lap around the park that you
6 noticed?
7 A When you say " he, " ar e you r ef er r i ng t o you?
8 Q Yes, sir.
9 A No, you di dn' t t ake a l ap.
10 Q Okay. That you witnessed?
11 A Not t hat I wi t nessed, no.
12 Q And just to back up quickly, when you went
13 back to check your phone, your hat was there?
14 A Yes, i t was.
15 Q And nobody had given you your hat. Mr.
16 Zarate hadn't retrieved a hat from a man who had held
17 it up and offered it?
18 A Not t o my knowl edge, no.
19 Q Okay.
20 Did anybody that night mention to you that
21 the phone was held up and offered to the people
22 assembled in the skate park?
23 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on hear say. Ther e' s no
24 quest i on t her e t hat r el at es t o an af f ect on a hear
Page 178
1 whi ch Mr . Coughl i n keeps f al l i ng back t o.
2 THE COURT: Sust ai ned, obj ect i on sust ai ned.
3 He di dn' t obser ve anyone do i t .
4 MR. COUGHLI N: But i t j ust mi ght go t o t he
5 ef f ect of whet her or not Mr . Gobl e f el t l i ke somebody
6 came up and gr abbed hi s phone or whet her he r eal i zed
7 he mi ght have been somewhat negl i gent - -
8 THE COURT: I don' t t hi nk i t r eal l y mat t er s,
9 si r . You' r e char ged wi t h, i n t hi s case, ei t her
10 wi l l f ul l y, unl awf ul l y, st eal , t ake away, car r y away
11 t he per sonal pr oper t y of anot her .
14 Q So this man who alerted you, without getting
15 into specifics of what he told you, did you know this
16 man that said, "Oh, that was your phone," or whatever
17 he said?
18 A I have no i dea who he was.
19 Q Have you ever heard the name "Peanut"
20 assigned to it?
21 A Excuse me " Peni s?"
22 Q No Peanut?
23 A No, I have not .
24 Q Okay.
Page 179
1 He had gauged ears though?
2 A I honest l y can' t r emember . He had l i ke
3 bl ondi sh br own hai r and he was whi t e l i ke my age,
4 t hat ' s al l I know.
5 THE COURT: Wai t a second, who had bl ond
6 hai r ?
7 THE WI TNESS: I know f or a f act t hat he
8 di dn' t t est i f y or he di dn' t si gn a wi t ness t hi ng.
9 THE COURT: No, I mean but he' s t he per son
10 who t ol d you who had t he phone?
11 THE WI TNESS: Yeah.
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 Go ahead.
15 Q Okay.
16 But you had never received a phone call from
17 him prior to that night or called him or had known him
18 from a stranger?
19 A No.
20 Q And none of your friends did that you know
21 of?
22 A No.
23 Q So once he alerted you to the fact that the
24 suspect who you had indicated was at that point
Page 180
1 probably was over in your Jeep was there where you
2 indicated it would have been parked?
3 A Repeat t hat .
4 Q I'm sorry.
5 Once you were told about the suspect, you
6 indicated -- can we get into whether he indicated the
7 gauged ear man said, "I saw him go up and grab it?"
8 THE COURT: No, you can' t .
9 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' msor r y, your Honor .
10 THE COURT: We' ve al r eady cl ar i f i ed t hat .
12 Q So what happened then?
13 A Do you want me t o j ust st ar t wher e I l ef t
14 of f ?
15 Q Yes.
16 A I sai d, " That guy has my phone, " and I saw
17 you on t he bi ke sl owl y peddl i ng away. My f i r st
18 i nst i nct was t o come conf r ont you and ask you i f you
19 had my phone.
20 Q Did you jog over there?
21 A I skat eboar ded over t her e as f ast as I coul d.
22 Q Did anybody join you?
23 A Not at t he ver y begi nni ng, no. I came al l by
24 mysel f t o you.
Page 181
1 Q Okay.
2 And then did anybody join you soon
3 thereafter?
4 A Many peopl e j oi ned me soon af t er .
5 Q Was it like two --
7 He cover ed t hi s t he f i r st t i me.
8 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , t hat ' s t r ue.
9 Sust ai ned. Obj ect i on sust ai ned.
11 Q Okay.
12 So you went over and when you say you
13 confronted the suspect?
14 A Yes.
15 THE COURT: He sai d he conf r ont ed you?
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Ri ght .
18 Q Do you recall exactly what you asked or tell
19 me in as best you recall what you asked initially and
20 what the suspect --
21 A I was l i ke, " Hey, di d you j ust t ake my
22 phone, " t hat ' s what I sai d, somet hi ng ver y si mi l ar t o
23 t hat .
24 Q Okay.
Page 182
1 And then you received some response that --
2 A I speci f i cal l y r emember , " No, I do not have
3 your phone. I have a phone, " and you pul l ed out a
4 di f f er ent cel l phone and sai d, " I have my phone, " and
5 t hen you put t hat away and t r i ed t o keep r i di ng away
6 f r omme. You woul dn' t speak t o me. You wer e
7 compl et el y t r yi ng t o i gnor e me and t r yi ng t o get away
8 f r omme.
9 Q Okay.
10 What would you say -- I know this might not
11 be allowable, your Honor, but from your vantage point,
12 what would make the suspect think he had your phone?
13 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, specul at i on.
14 THE COURT: I f you keep r ef er r i ng t o t he
15 " suspect , " I don' t know who you' r e t al ki ng about
16 anymor e.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Me. Ther e' s onl y one suspect
18 her e, and I ' mt r yi ng t o - - I ' mwear i ng coupl e of
19 di f f er ent hat s.
20 Do you want me t o say " Me" and sound l ess
21 l i ke an at t or ney; i s t hat i t ?
22 THE COURT: No. I want t o know who you' r e
23 t al ki ng about .
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Ther e' s one suspect her e.
Page 183
1 THE COURT: You' r e t al ki ng l i ke i t ' s a t hi r d
2 per son.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Yeah, I know because i t ' s
4 pr ej udi ci al f or me t o const ant l y be soundi ng l i ke I ' m
5 t he def endant when I ' mt r yi ng t o be r epr esent i ng
6 mysel f .
7 THE COURT: Wel l but - - okay. Then he can
8 answer t hat i t was you i f he want s t o, I guess.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: I guess i t get s conf usi ng when
10 he' s not adopt i ng my t er mi nol ogy. I under st and, your
11 Honor .
12 THE COURT: Wel l , he shoul dn' t be.
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I under st and, your Honor , my
14 apol ogi es.
15 THE COURT: You can r ef er t o your sel f as t he
16 " suspect . " You can r ef er t o hi mas whoever i t was,
17 al l r i ght ?
18 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' l l do as i t seems t he cour t
19 want s, your Honor . I ' l l j ust say " me" f r omnow on.
20 THE COURT: You can cal l your sel f , " Suspect "
21 t hat ' s f i ne.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: That ' s i t . I t hi nk you have
23 i t bet t er , your Honor , i t ' s cl ear er t hat way.
Page 184
1 Q So at that point, what would make me think
2 from your point of view at that point that I had your
3 phone?
4 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on specul at i on. He' s
5 aski ng what t hi s wi t ness can t est i f y t o what Mr .
6 Coughl i n i s t hi nki ng, t hat ' s specul at i on.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: Or r easonabl e per son.
8 MR. YOUNG: That ' s specul at i on.
10 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mj ust - -
12 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, your Honor .
14 Q When you said, "Do you have my phone or
15 something like that," did you expect me to know if I
16 had a phone that it was yours in particular?
17 A I woul d expect you, yes, t o know t hat i t was
18 mi ne when I ' mt he i ndi vi dual aski ng you i f you had my
19 phone, yes. I woul d expect t hat you knew i t was mi ne,
20 yes.
21 Q How would I know that?
22 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor ,
23 specul at i on.
24 THE WI TNESS: The f act of me aski ng you i f
Page 185
1 i t ' s mi ne shoul d be enough.
2 MR. YOUNG: Specul at i on.
3 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . The obj ect i on i s
4 sust ai ned.
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q Okay.
7 Was I a stranger to you and you to I at that
8 point?
9 A Yes.
10 Q So we didn't have any sort of longstanding
11 relationship that would develop --
12 A I t hi nk not , no.
13 Q Okay.
14 So if a stranger came up to you and said,
15 "You have my phone," would you expect it was their
16 phone?
17 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on. I don' t under st and
18 t hat quest i on.
19 THE COURT: Sust ai ned, i t ' s i r r el evant t oo.
21 Q All right, your Honor.
22 Then at that point, it sounds like you were
23 unhappy with the answer that you were getting, did the
24 suspect try to flee?
Page 186
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay.
3 Earlier did you say he just kind of kept
4 going on his way?
5 A I t ' s t he same t hi ng goi ng on your way, f l ea.
6 I woul d say i t ' s i n t he same cat egor y. You wer e
7 t r yi ng t o get away f r omus, f r omme at l east . You
8 wer e t r yi ng t o get away f r omme.
9 Q Was it like a mad dash?
10 A You got t o t he poi nt wher e you wer e t r yi ng so
11 har d t o bi ke of f t hat you wer e choki ng your own dog
12 t hat was t i ed t o your bi ke, I speci f i cal l y r emember
13 t hat .
14 Q The dog was on the ground?
15 A You had your dog ei t her t i ed t o your bi ke or
16 you wer e hol di ng i t and you wer e t r yi ng t o get away so
17 bad t hat I speci f i cal l y r emember t he dog get t i ng l i ke
18 yanked and choked when you wer e t r yi ng t o get away.
19 Q Like the chain was caught up in something?
20 A I have no i dea. I j ust r emember you t r yi ng
21 t o get away so bad t hat t he dog was get t i ng somewhat
22 yanked on your bi ke. You wer e t r yi ng t o get away.
23 Q Okay, but you don't know if that's because
24 the chain was caught in something, the dog's chain?
Page 187
1 A I don' t know.
2 Q By that point, had you made any indication,
3 "Hey, I want you to stop here and allow me to prove to
4 you this is my phone," or something?
5 A I don' t t hi nk you gave me t he oppor t uni t y t o
6 do t hat at al l .
7 Q Okay.
8 So then what did you do -- did you and your
9 group of friends tackle --
10 A My f r i ends saw t he si t uat i on comi ng over . We
11 di d no t ackl i ng what soever .
12 Q Okay.
13 A They came over and my f r i end cal l ed - - I
14 sai d, " Hey, cal l my phone, " whi ch I ' ve al r eady
15 t est i f i ed t o t hi s bef or e. I don' t know why I ' mdoi ng
16 t hi s agai n. I sai d, " Hey, cal l my phone. "
17 He di al ed my phone number and we saw i t l i ght
18 up i n your pocket . At t hat poi nt , i t was cl ear as day
19 t hat my phone was i nsi de your pocket .
20 Q Now, you saw I was you say was trying to
21 basically made make a mad dash at that point, yet you
22 were still able to see the phone lighting up in my
23 pocket?
24 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on,
Page 188
1 mi schar act er i zes t he t est i mony. Ther e was never t he
2 use of mad dash.
3 Second of f , t hi s has al l been cover ed i n t he
4 f i r st t i me t hi s wi t ness t est i f i ed.
5 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , sust ai ned.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , i f I coul d j ust
7 say I don' t know t hat we ever cover ed t he i dea of how
8 coul d he see t he phone l i ght up i f t he suspect was
9 somewhat f l eei ng.
10 THE COURT: You can ask hi m. I ' l l al l ow t he
11 quest i on. We onl y have f i ve mi nut es l ef t .
12 THE WI TNESS: We had t o l i t er al l y ci r cl e
13 ar ound you so you coul dn' t f or cef ul l y bi ke away f r om
14 us. What I r ecal l we ci r cl ed ar ound you and t hat ' s
15 when t anner cal l ed t he phone and we saw i t cl ear as
16 day l i ght up i n your pocket .
18 Q Okay.
19 So the suspect wasn't in a leaving type of
20 movement when you saw the phone light up?
21 A You wer e t r yi ng t o l eave. I speci f i cal l y
22 r emember t hat . I wi l l say on t he r ecor d I
23 speci f i cal l y r ecal l you t r yi ng t o l eave.
24 Q Okay.
Page 189
1 Was there some point in which I stopped
2 trying to leave, as you say, and engaged in a
3 conversation with you and maybe mentioned, "Hey, let's
4 be peaceful. A 13-year old --
5 A Ther e was no l et ' s be peacef ul , i t was j ust
6 you denyi ng, denyi ng, denyi ng t hat you had my phone.
7 Q Okay.
8 A And t hat was about i t . We r est r ai ned you
9 t her e and when we cal l ed t he phone, we saw i t l i ght up
10 i n your pocket . I coul dn' t t ake i t anymor e and di al ed
11 911.
12 Q Okay.
13 So was there some point in which you said,
14 "You just admitted you stole my phone."
15 A Yes.
16 You sai d t her e was somet hi ng l i ke - - you sai d
17 somet hi ng l i ke, " Wel l , i t ' s l i ke an ol d 3G, what do
18 you even car e. " You sai d somet hi ng l i ke t hat . I
19 speci f i cal l y r emember t hat . You sai d, " I t ' s l i ke an
20 ol d 3G, i t ' s wor t h l i ke $50 bucks, who car es. " You
21 sai d, somet hi ng l i ke t hat .
22 Q And did you tell the officer that day that it
23 was worth about $50 to $80 bucks?
24 A I t was $300 r et ai l val ue when I f i r st bought
Page 190
1 my phone, yes.
2 Q Did he ask you how much the phone was worth?
3 A I can' t r emember .
4 Q Did you see him reach into the suspect's
5 pocket and take out the phone?
6 A Yes. I di d see t hat . They f or cef ul l y had t o
7 t ake i t back f r omyou, i f t hat ' s what you' r e aski ng,
8 yes. You di d not wi l l f ul l y gi ve over t he phone.
9 Li ke I sai d, I ' ve cover ed t hi s bef or e t oo.
10 The of f i cer gave you t he oppor t uni t y. He sai d, " I f
11 you r et ur n t he phone, we' l l dr op t hi s now. We have no
12 pr obl em, " whi ch I don' t under st and why t he suspect .
13 Q Sorry to cut you off but I have limited time.
14 Did the officer -- did you ever reach like
15 you were going to grab for the phone?
16 A I want t o say no. Fr omwhat I r ecal l , no,
17 because you honest l y i nt i mi dat ed t he hel l out of me.
18 You wer e ext r emel y t al l . I di d not know you. I
19 di dn' t want you t o punch me i n t he f ace. So I di d
20 not - -
21 Q So how would you say I interacted with the
22 officer, was I cooperative?
23 A Not cooper at i ve at al l .
24 Q And how so?
Page 191
1 A They asked you ver y pol i t el y t o gi ve t he
2 phone back. You deni ed i t . You sai d you di dn' t have
3 i t and t hey f or cef ul l y - - i f t hey f or cef ul l y had t o
4 t ake t he phone f r omyou, I woul d say t hat ' s not
5 compl yi ng wi t h t he pol i ce.
6 Q So you specifically recall me telling the
7 officer, "No, I do not have the phone?"
8 A Somet hi ng l i ke t hat , yeah. "
9 No okay. I don' t speci f i cal l y r emember you
10 sayi ng " No, but I do speci f i cal l y r emember you not
11 wi l l i ngl y r et ur ni ng i t .
12 Q Do you specifically recall me telling the
13 officer that I did not have it?
14 A I have no i dea. I don' t know. Why does i t
15 even mat t er ?
16 Q Okay.
17 Did you see Austin Lichty make a lunging type
18 grabbing movement some might say towards the suspect?
19 A No.
20 Q Did the man with the gauged ears, was he over
21 there by that point?
22 A I have no i dea. I want t o say yes. No, he
23 was I t hi nk. He came over wi t h t he gr oup and was
24 hel pi ng us hol d you back.
Page 192
1 Q Was he somebody that you would characterize
2 as the most aggressive with Mr. Coughlin?
3 A I r emember hi m- - I want t o say he was t he
4 one t hat hel d you. Someone hel d on t o your handl ebar s
5 so you coul dn' t l eave.
6 Q So you say they were holding on to my
7 handlebars so I couldn't leave, it wasn't because they
8 were saying --
9 A Thi s i s a year and a hal f ago al most . I do
10 r ecal l someone r est r ai ni ng your bi cycl e. I ' mnot sur e
11 i f i t was t he man t hat has t he gauged ear s or Peanut
12 you cal l ed hi m. I have no i dea i f t hat ' s who i t was.
13 Q Okay.
14 Was it like initially restrained the bike for
15 like a second and then I stopped and said, "Okay, here
16 I'm stopping."
17 A I t hi nk you wer e pr et t y cl ear t hat you wer e
18 goi ng t o be hel d t her e unt i l pol i ce ar r i ved, I guess.
19 Q Did you see me call 911?
20 A No.
21 Q You didn't see me get on the phone and call
22 911?
23 A Or maybe you di d. Now t hat you say t hat , I
24 t hi nk you mi ght have, I don' t know. I t hi nk you wer e
Page 193
1 l i ke, " I ' mgoi ng t o cal l t he pol i ce, " and I was l i ke,
2 " I al r eady amso. "
3 Q Okay.
4 Did you, at any point, say, "Someone just
5 socked a minor?
6 A I do r emember t hat t oo. Someone, I don' t
7 r emember who but someone was l i ke t r yi ng t o get back
8 and you di d l i ke l ay a hand on someone.
9 Q Okay.
10 So did somebody touch me that night in the
11 context --
12 A I can' t r emember . I woul d assume yeah,
13 maybe.
14 THE COURT: Okay. You have t hr ee mi nut es
15 l ef t .
17 Q Yes, sir.
18 You can't remember specifically but somebody
19 did?
20 A I have no i dea.
21 Q Was there some point where you said -- I'm
22 sorry, I have to ask the questions. Where you said to
23 the 911 operator, "Someone just socked a minor?"
24 MR. YOUNG: Asked and answer ed.
Page 194
1 MR. COUGHLI N: I di dn' t hear any answer .
2 MR. YOUNG: He j ust answer ed i t about
3 10 seconds ago.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Di d he say he di dn' t r emember ?
5 THE COURT: He sai d he may have.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: He may have because somebody
7 mi ght have t ouched hi mbut t hen he sai d he doesn' t
8 r ecal l anybody t ouchi ng hi m. So I ' mcl ar i f yi ng
9 because i t ' s been somewhat cont r adi ct or y.
10 THE WI TNESS: I honest l y wi sh I coul d be mor e
11 speci f i c about i t . My mi nd I had so much anxi et y and
12 f r ust r at i on and f l ur r y t hat I wi sh I was cr yst al cl ear
13 about t he moment .
15 Q Yeah, it's private stuff, it's not cool. If
16 it's your phone, pretty much anybody would be pissed;
17 right?
18 A I was upset , yes.
19 Q And I think that's normal and reasonable.
20 Was there any point that night where you felt
21 like the group with you was kind of overly aggressive
22 and demanding that I believe one, that it was your
23 phone and immediately comply --
24 A What ar e you aski ng me?
Page 195
1 Q Was there any point which it occurred to you
2 -- assuming I had the phone wow, we're expecting this
3 guy to one believe it's our phone and two, we're being
4 pretty aggressive in demanding that he turn it over
5 right away?
6 A I st i l l don' t r eal l y under st and t he quest i on,
7 sor r y.
8 Q Did you ever say, "I'm going to reach into
9 his pocket. I'm going to grab the phone out of his
10 pocket right now?"
11 A No.
12 Q Okay.
13 Did the officer take the phone out of the
14 suspect's pocket and then walk over to you?
15 A Yes, I bel i eve so, yes.
16 Q And then what?
17 A I do r emember hi mt aki ng t he phone f r omyou
18 and t hen t hey br ought i t over t o me and t hen t hey
19 asked me quest i ons about i t . They sai d, " What ' s your
20 pass code. Can you t el l us some cont act s, " and I t ol d
21 hi ma coupl e of t hi ngs. I f ul l y descr i bed t he phone,
22 i t was pr et t y cl ear as day i t was mi ne.
23 Q And was anybody standing with you when you
24 were interacting with was it the one officer?
Page 196
1 A I want t o say t her e was l i ke at l east t wo
2 of f i cer s.
3 Q But that you were interacting with?
4 A I have no i dea whi ch of f i cer .
5 Q Not which one but whether it was one main
6 officer who was communicating with you?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And at some point, I would imagine he would
9 have had to ask you your phone number?
10 A Yes, I guess.
11 Q Okay.
12 And so he asked you your phone?
13 A I don' t know. I can' t answer t hat . I don' t
14 know i f he asked me f or my phone number or not .
15 Q Do you know whether he called the iPhone in
16 question and tried to ascertain whether in fact it was
17 your phone prior to just searching in the suspect's
18 pockets?
19 A Sor r y, your quest i ons ar e l i ke conf usi ng.
20 Q Did the officer just show up and say, "I
21 think you have the phone," and just grab into the
22 pocket or did he do a few things to try --
23 A I don' t know i f t hey r est r ai ned you or
24 handcuf f ed you or bot h, but - - I don' t know t hey
Page 197
1 r est r ai ned you, got my phone. One of t he of f i cer s
2 came back over and asked me a coupl e of quest i ons t o
3 see i f i t was mi ne. I answer ed a coupl e of quest i ons
4 and he bel i eved i t was mi ne and gave i t back t o me.
5 THE COURT: The t i me i s up. I ' l l gi ve you
6 one mor e quest i on.
7 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
8 Q So he had the phone at that point when he
9 first came up to you and asked you, "is this your
10 phone?"
11 A Ar e you aski ng i f he had t he phone when he
12 asked me i f i t was mi ne?
13 Q When he first started asking you questions
14 about the phone?
15 A Yes, I guess, wher e el se woul d i t have been.
16 Q Okay.
17 A Or maybe i t was st i l l i n your pocket when he
18 asked me. Maybe i t was st i l l i n your pocked when he
19 was aski ng me quest i ons. I don' t know.
20 Q Okay.
21 Did you maybe say, "Oh, if it's not in his
22 right pocket, it might be in his left pocket?
23 MR. YOUNG: What ' s t he di f f er ence what pocket
24 i t was i n or i f he was hol di ng i t at t hat t i me or not .
Page 198
1 I j ust don' t see t he r el evance i n t hat at al l .
2 THE COURT: Okay.
3 You' ve gone away over t he t i me now. So we
4 wi l l - - I ' mgoi ng t o t ake a f i ve- mi nut e r ecess. I
5 need t o meet wi t h J udge Sal cedo. You have one mor e
6 wi t ness?
7 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I have one or t wo
8 quest i ons on cr oss; do you mi nd i f I j ust go ahead an
9 do t hat ?
10 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , t hen go ahead an do
11 t hat .
12 CROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
13 BY MR. YOUNG:
14 Q You testified, sir, at one point that the
15 suspect, the person you're talking to, you identified
16 the last time as Mr. Coughlin, the same person?
17 A Yes, si r .
18 Q You stated at one point, that Mr. Coughlin
19 pulled out a cell phone and said something along the
20 line of, "See, this isn't your phone," or something
21 like that?
22 A Yes, exact l y.
23 Q Was that your phone that he pulled out?
24 A The f i r st one?
Page 199
1 Q Yes.
2 A No, when I f i r st asked hi m, no.
3 Q Okay.
4 So he had --
5 A I t was l i ke a r ed - - I coul dn' t t el l you what
6 ki nd of phone i t was, i t was l i ke a r ed f l i p phone, i t
7 wasn' t an i Phone.
8 Q I just want to make clear that's a different
9 phone than yours that was also on his person?
10 A Yes.
11 THE COURT: Okay.
12 I wi l l al l ow you t o r espond t o t hose t wo
13 quest i ons i f you have a quest i on r el evant t o t hose t wo
14 quest i ons.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Mr . Young asked - -
16 THE COURT: He asked i f you wer e t he per son
17 who was - - who you i dent i f i ed as t he suspect .
19 THE COURT: And t he ot her quest i on was when
20 he f i r st st opped you, you showed hi ma phone t hat
21 wasn' t hi s phone and he r ei t er at ed t hat i t wasn' t hi s
22 phone, t hat i t was a r ed - - what he bel i eved was a r ed
23 f l i p phone.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. I can ask a qui ck
Page 200
1 quest i on r el at ed t o t hat ?
2 THE COURT: Rel evant t o t hat , yes.
3
4 REDI RECT EXAMI NATI ON
5 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
6 Q Did you then say, "No, I'm talking about,"
7 and then describe your phone with more specificity to
8 me or the suspect?
9 A You' r e aski ng what I r epl i ed t o you af t er you
10 pul l ed t hat one out ?
11 Q Yes.
12 A I sai d, " No, t hat ' s not my phone and I ' ve
13 been t ol d you have my phone, be honest , " or somet hi ng
14 l i ke t hat . Fr omwhat I coul d t el l - - I coul d j ust t el l
15 you wer e l yi ng.
16 Q Okay.
17 But you didn't indicate more specifically
18 it's a black or a white iPhone?
19 A I have no i dea what I t ol d you r i ght t her e.
20 Q Okay.
21 Thank you, your Honor.
23 We' l l t ake a 5- mi nut e r ecess. When we come
24 back - - wel l , you have one mor e wi t ness on subpoena so
Page 201
1 do you want t hat wi t ness cal l ed, t hen?
3 THE COURT: And t hen i f you want t o t est i f y,
4 you' l l be abl e t o.
5 THE WI TNESS: Your Honor , di d you want t hese?
6 THE COURT: Yes, pl ease.
7 THE CLERK: J udge, can I get t he wi t ness t o
8 st at e hi s name and spel l i t ?
9 THE COURT: Oh, yeah, I have i t . I t ' s Cor y
10 Gobl e.
11 THE CLERK: C O R Y?
12 THE COURT: Yes.
13 THE WI TNESS: Al so, I have a quest i on j ust
14 because I had t o mi ss wor k t oday; i s t her e any t ype
15 of - -
16 THE COURT: I wi l l or der t hat - -
17 THE CLERK: I ' l l meet hi mout f r ont , j udge.
18 ( A r ecess was t aken at 3: 00. )
19 THE COURT: Bef or e we pr oceed any f ur t her , I
20 di d or der Mr . Lesl i e t o be her e as st andby counsel ; i s
21 t her e any obj ect i on t o hi mbei ng r el i eved at t hi s
22 poi nt because I bel i eve Mr . Coughl i n has pr et t y much
23 compl i ed wi t h t he cour t decor um. I don' t know t her e
24 t o be any r eason f or hi mt o t ake over t he def ense.
Page 202
1 We' r e al most done. You want ed hi mt o l eave bef or e.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , I l i ke and r espect
3 Mr . Lesl i e but I ' l l say t hi s, your Honor , t he onl y
4 r eason I mi ght wi sh f or hi mt o be her e was i f you
5 ant i ci pat e i f t her e i s a gui l t y ver di ct , me bei ng
6 i ncar cer at ed, I mi ght wi sh t o have st andby counsel t o
7 t ake my pr oper t y r at her t han have i t booked i nt o a
8 j ai l set t i ng.
9 MR. LESLI E: I don' t t ake possessi on of
10 per sonal pr oper t y of my cl i ent s. So I don' t t hi nk
11 t hat we' r e cover ed t o do t hat . We don' t have t he - -
12 especi al l y wi t h r egar d t o comput er equi pment , I ' mj ust
13 not wi l l i ng t o do t hat f or a var i et y of r easons.
14 THE COURT: Wel l , we wi l l make sur e i t ' s
15 secur ed, i f t hat wer e t o happen.
16 Mr . Young, do you have any r eason - -
17 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I t hi nk we' r e al most
18 done but I ' l l def er t o your Honor , i t doesn' t mat t er
19 t o me one way or t he ot her .
20 THE COURT: Wel l , I amgoi ng t o r el ease Mr .
21 Lesl i e unl ess you f eel t hat you shoul d st ay.
22 MR. LESLI E: Who ar e you aski ng?
23 THE COURT: You.
24 MR. LESLI E: Wel l - -
Page 203
1 THE COURT: Si nce you' ve been her e al most t he
2 whol e t i me.
3 MR. LESLI E: Ri ght . As st andby counsel , I ' ve
4 been her e si nce t he begi nni ng of t hese pr oceedi ngs
5 t oday and i n f act , had a coupl e of i nt er act i ons wi t h
6 Mr . Coughl i n. I t ' s up t o t he cour t , i t ' s your r ul i ng
7 t hat al l owed hi mt o sel f - r epr esent and t hen i t was
8 your r ul i ng t hat appoi nt ed me as st andby. So I don' t
9 r eal l y t hi nk t hat I have a posi t i on.
10 THE COURT: The r est of t he day you can do i t
11 because we pr obabl y ar en' t goi ng t o be done?
12 MR. LESLI E: I ' mavai l abl e and I ' ve cover ed
13 al l my cases.
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 Then I ' l l r equest t hat you st ay j ust t o be
16 saf e on t hi s i n case somet hi ng happens.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: And, your Honor , I don' t
18 ant i ci pat e act i ng out any di f f er ent l y t han - -
19 THE COURT: Wel l , I know but i f somet hi ng
20 happens wher e you f eel t hat you need someone t o
21 r epr esent you t he l ast mi nut e, i t wi l l be her e.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mconsci ous of Mr . Lesl i e
23 t i me. I r eal i ze he has i mpor t ant t hi ngs t o do.
24 MR. LESLI E: I do but t hi s i s al so i mpor t ant .
Page 204
1 I j ust want t o be ver y cl ear , and t hen I ' l l si t down,
2 j udge, but t he r eason t hat I ' mhesi t ant t o say t hat I
3 want t o l eave i s I don' t want t o any of my deci si ons
4 or act i ons t o wor k t o any det r i ment t o t he cl i ent .
5 So I ' mher e. I ' mi n t he audi ence and I ' m
6 avai l abl e.
7 THE COURT: Wel l , nei t her I do. I wi l l have
8 you r emai n t hen.
9 Okay. You can cal l your wi t ness, si r .
10 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r . I ' l l cal l Mr .
11 Nat hani el Zar at e.
12 THE COURT: Okay. I f you' l l come up and be
13 swor n. Then i f you' l l spel l your f i r st and l ast name
14 f or t he r ecor d, si r . And agai n, I bel i eve you
15 t est i f i ed bef or e so Mr . Young wi l l have t he r i ght t o
16 obj ect i f i t ' s somet hi ng whi ch has al r eady been
17 t est i f i ed t o bef or e.
18 Woul d you r ai se your r i ght hand?
20 THE COURT: Woul d you st at e and spel l your
21 f i r st and l ast name?
22 THE WI TNESS: Nat hani el Zar at e, N A T H A N I
23 E L, l ast name Zar at e, Z A R A T E.
24 THE COURT: Go ahead, Mr . Coughl i n.
Page 205
2 NATHANI EL ZARATE
3 EXAMI NATI ON
4 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
5 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Zarate. Thank you for
6 being here today, sir.
7 I'm going to -- let me ask you do you recall
8 on the night in question, August 20, 2011, someone who
9 you might have referred to earlier as "the man with
10 the sixpack" holding the iPhone and offering it up to
11 people in the park?
12 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on hear say,
13 i t ' s t he t r uest def i ni t i on of hear say, as I ' ve
14 obj ect ed t o al r eady.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: And, your Honor , i f I coul d
16 j ust qui ckl y of f er a count er t o t hat ?
17 THE COURT: Wel l , you can j ust ask hi mt he
18 quest i on i f he r ecal l s - - you sai d, " That you
19 t est i f i ed t o ear l i er . " You asked hi mt o r eci t e
20 t est i mony f r oma pr i or pr oceedi ng.
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Oh - -
22 THE COURT: I guess you can ask hi mt he
23 quest i on i f he saw someone hol d up a phone.
Page 206
1 Q Yeah.
2 Did you see did someone hold up a phone that
3 night?
4 A Yes.
5 Q He offered it up to the people in the park?
6 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , agai n I woul d obj ect
7 t o t hat as hear say.
9 Wel l , I ' mgoi ng t o over r ul e t hat because i t
10 was asked bef or e and answer ed by t hi s wi t ness I
11 bel i eve. I f not , i t was answer ed by t he of f i cer , one
12 or t he ot her , because I hear d t hat t est i mony and I
13 have no way of knowi ng i t except f or t hat .
16 Q Mr. Zarate, will you answer that, please?
17 A Yes, t her e was a man hol di ng up t he phone.
18 Q Did the man say something to the effect of,
19 "Somebody claim this phone or I'm going to throw it in
20 the river."
21 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect
22 t o t hat . I know f or a f act t hat has not been
23 i nt r oduced i n evi dence and agai n, t her e' s no - - I have
24 not hear d an except i on t o t he hear say r ul e pr ovi ded by
Page 207
1 Mr . Coughl i n and t hat ver y agai n cl ear l y i s hear say.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: And, your Honor , may I j ust
3 of f er a hear say except i on?
4 THE COURT: What ' s t he hear say except i on?
5 MR. COUGHLI N: I woul d say one, di dn' t exi st
6 i n ment al , emot i on or physi cal condi t i on woul d appl y
7 as woul d pr esent sense i mpr essi on - -
9 I ' mgoi ng t o over r ul e t he obj ect i on. Go
10 ahead.
12 Q You may answer, sir.
13 A To whi ch quest i on?
14 Q Did somebody hold the phone up and say, "I'm
15 going to throw it in the river if somebody doesn't
16 claim it," or something substantially similar?
17 A I don' t r emember t hat t hat man speci f i cal l y
18 sai d, " I ' mgoi ng t o t hr ow i t i n t he r i ver . "
19 Q Did he say anything like that?
20 A I don' t r emember hi msayi ng anyt hi ng l i ke
21 t hat .
22 Q Do you recall Nicole Watson admitting to
23 hearing that?
24 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , now we' r e at l i ke t wo
Page 208
1 l evel s of hear say.
2 THE COURT: That i s sust ai ned. Thi s wi t ness
3 can answer what he hear d- -
4 MR. YOUNG: Mr . Coughl i n knows what hear say
5 i s and t hr oughout t hi s ent i r e day, he has at t empt ed t o
6 el i ci t al most not hi ng but hear say.
7 THE COURT: That ' s f i ne but t hat pr i or
8 quest i on t he one t hat he answer ed I t hi nk i s an
9 except i on but t hi s one i s not and i t ' s doubl e hear say
10 on t op of i t , si r .
11 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay, your Honor , i t ' s not
12 of f er ed t o pr ove t he t r ut h of t he mat t er asser t ed,
13 i t ' s of f er ed - -
14 THE COURT: I don' t car e. I ' msust ai ni ng i t .
16 Q Okay.
17 Do you recall seeing me with some cameras and
18 recording equipment about a week after the arrest?
19 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on r el evance.
20 THE COURT: What ' s t he r el evance?
21 MR. COUGHLI N: One, I bel i eve i t goes t o
22 excul pat or y mat er i al i n t he sense t hat i f someone - -
23 i f Mr . Zar at e hear d me ask t hat quest i on and hear d
24 someone admi t t o hear i ng t he man say he' s goi ng t o
Page 209
1 t hr ow i t i n t he r i ver - -
2 THE COURT: I sust ai n t he obj ect i on.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. Can I ask Mr . Zar at e t o
4 aut hent i cat e a r ecor di ng t hat was made wi t h hi m
5 pr esent i n whi ch hi s voi ce i s on?
6 THE COURT: You may.
7 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , i f t hi s i s a vi deo
8 t aken a week af t er t he i nci dent whi ch he was r ef er r i ng
9 t o, I woul d obj ect t o t hat .
10 THE COURT: I f i t ' s a week af t er , t hen I
11 sust ai n t he obj ect i on. I f i t was cont empor aneous wi t h
12 t he i nci dent , I wi l l al l ow i t .
13 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , i t was a week af t er t he
14 i nci dent - -
15 THE COURT: So t he obj ect i on i s sust ai ned,
16 i t ' s not r el evant t o t hi s char ge t oday, si r .
17 MR. COUGHLI N: So i f i ndi vi dual s have
18 per ci pi ent knowl edge of t he event s on t he ni ght of t he
19 ar r est a week l at er a vi deot ape descr i bi ng t he ar r est ,
20 t hat ' s not r el evant or t he event s i nvol ved t her ei n?
21 THE COURT: The ar r est i s not t he i ssue, i t ' s
22 whet her or not you st ol e t he cel l phone.
23 MR. COUGHLI N: The act i ons i nci dent t o t he
24 ar r est or r esul t i ng i n t he ar r est . I f t hey ar e
Page 210
1 t est i f yi ng or not t est i f yi ng but comment i ng a week
2 l at er on vi deot ape knowi ng t hey' r e bei ng r ecor ded as
3 t o what act i ons wer e i nvol ved i n t he ar r est and what
4 pr eci pi t at ed what , t hat ' s not r el evant .
5 THE COURT: Si r , t el l me speci f i cal l y what - -
6 you can make me an of f er of pr oof , a ver y br i ef one,
7 as t o what i s al l egedl y on t hi s vi deo t hat deal s wi t h
8 t he ar r est on t he ni ght of t he i nci dent .
9 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , and I ' l l j ust not e
10 qui ckl y I r evi ewed t he t ape of t he Oct ober 22nd
11 hear i ng dat e and at t he 48- mi nut e mar k of t hi s second
12 f i l e on t hat , you not e t hat I wi l l be af f or ded t he
13 r i ght t o wai ve wi t ness f ees f or subpoenas and t her ei n,
14 I suggest t hat my pr oper l y ser vi ng Ni col e Wat son
15 i nci dent t o N R S- 174. 345 - -
16 THE COURT: Wel l , act ual l y t hat i s pr oper
17 ser vi ce but i t ' s not one t hat she has t o obey because
18 i t ' s by mai l . So i f she doesn' t get i t and i f she
19 di dn' t si gn f or i t , t hen i t ' s not evi dence t hat she
20 was ser ved, i t may compl y wi t h t he t echni cal i t y of
21 st at ut e but i t doesn' t gi ve me t he power t o or der hi m
22 t o be her e or t o i ssue a war r ant f or her
23 non- appear ance.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: But I do bel i eve i t pr ovi des a
Page 211
1 basi s f or a cont i nuance.
2 THE COURT: No, si r , not unl ess you made a
3 pr oper mot i on based upon t hat .
4 MR. COUGHLI N: And I ' mmaki ng t hat now, si r .
5 THE COURT: I t ' s deni ed.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , as t o your pr ompt i ng me
7 t o i ssue an of f er of pr oof , t hi s r ecor di ng and I have
8 a vi deo of i t and an audi o of i t as wel l , you mi ght
9 r emember Mr . Templ et on r ef er enci ng t hat I car r i ed
10 mul t i pl e devi ces, wi l l show Mr . Zar at e st andi ng next
11 t o Ms. Wat son when Ms. Wat son admi t s t o hear i ng t he
12 man wi t h t he si x- pack hol d t he i Phone up and t hr eat en
13 t o t hr ow i t i n t he r i ver i f someone di dn' t cl ai mi t
14 i mmedi at el y.
15 MR. YOUNG: How Mr . Coughl i n does not see
16 t hat as hear say i s beyond me.
18 You' r e sayi ng t hat Ms. Wat son sai d t hat on
19 t he vi deo?
20 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , wi t h Mr . Zar at e
21 t her e.
22 Fur t her , I t hi nk i t ' s r el evant t o t he ext ent
23 t hat Mr . Zar at e t hen cl ear l y appear s t o di ssuade her
24 f r omf ur t her cont r adi ct i ng what he al l egedl y t ol d t he
Page 212
1 pol i ce t hat ni ght and I bel i eve t her ei n i s i ndi cat ed a
2 mot i ve on hi s par t t o cover up t he ext ent t o whi ch hi s
3 st at ement s t o t he pol i ce r esul t ed i n my ar r est .
5 I ' mgoi ng t o sust ai n t he obj ect i on. Go
6 ahead.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: I woul d j ust not e f or t he
8 r ecor d, your Honor , I do bel i eve I compl i ed wi t h t he
9 r ecor d as f ar as ser vi ng Ms. Wat son.
10 THE COURT: I bel i eve you compl i ed except
11 t hat you di d not pr ovi de f or t he wi t ness f ee, but
12 you' ve i ndi cat ed t hat I wai ved i t whi ch I st i l l
13 haven' t seen or hear d even. I f I had, t he evi dence i s
14 t hat she i s no l onger her e so I don' t know what - -
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , she wasn' t her e t oday.
16 THE COURT: No, she i s no l onger i n t hi s
17 communi t y.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: No, she i s. I conf i r med t hat
19 she' s a st udent at McQueen Hi gh School .
20 THE COURT: Wel l , accor di ng t o t he t est i mony
21 ear l i er t oday - -
22 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t r ecal l any.
23 THE COURT: Ther e was t est i mony t oday t hat
24 she i s no l onger her e.
Page 213
1 MR. COUGHLI N: By Mr . Li cht y, I r ecal l hi m
2 sayi ng t hat he wasn' t awar e - - he hadn' t t al ked t o her
3 i n a year .
4 THE COURT: And he al so i ndi cat ed t hat he
5 bel i eved she had moved.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t r ecal l t hat . I
7 bel i eve he i ndi cat ed he di dn' t know what was her
8 cur r ent st at e.
9 THE COURT: Okay. Let me l ook at t he - -
10 act ual l y, I don' t have one f or her , but I assume t hat
11 you have a cer t i f i cat e f or her ; do you have i t wi t h
12 you?
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I pr ovi ded i t t o t he cour t ,
14 your Honor .
15 THE COURT: Wel l , t he one t hat I had di d not
16 show i t .
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Woul d i t be al l r i ght , your
18 Honor , coul d I r evi ew i t qui ckl y?
19 THE COURT: Wel l , i t doesn' t mat t er r i ght
20 now. I amr ul i ng t hat what she woul d have t est i f i ed
21 bot h t o woul d have been hear say and al so pr obabl y not
22 r el evant t o whet her or not i t was a t hef t .
23 I know your ar gument t hat somehow t hi s was
24 f ound pr oper t y but what some t hi r d par t y di d or di dn' t
Page 214
1 do i s not goi ng t o be at i ssue i n t hi s case when we
2 f i ni sh i t .
3 MR. COUGHLI N: So i f t he phone was goi ng t o
4 be i n t he r i ver but f or someone' s i nt er vent i on, t hat ' s
5 not bear i ng on t he f act of whet her or not compar i ng
6 someone wal ki ng - -
7 THE COURT: I f someone sai d t hat , I don' t
8 know number one t hat t hey di d because i t ' s hear say as
9 obj ect ed t o by Mr . Young. So I ' msust ai ni ng hi s
10 obj ect i on as t o hear say but even i f i t wasn' t hear say,
11 t he bot t oml i ne i s I don' t know number one, i f t he
12 per son woul d have done t hat or not . I don' t know how
13 t hey came i nt o possessi on of t he cel l phone.
14 Thi r dl y, you di d cl ai mt he phone f r omt hat
15 per son, accor di ng t o what I ' ve hear d.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: But i f you had hear d al l t hose
17 t hi ngs f r omme, t hen you per haps woul d r econsi der
18 al l owi ng t hi s exci t ed ut t er ance or pr esent - sense
19 i mpr essi on?
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 I wi l l al l ow you t o ar gue i t , al l r i ght . You
22 can ar gue anyt hi ng you want , but t he bot t oml i ne i s
23 t he evi dence wi l l be what I deci de on and t hat i s not
24 evi dence t hat t he hear say t est i mony of someone who' s
Page 215
1 not her e and even i f t hey wer e her e, i t woul d st i l l be
2 hear say.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , your Honor , and i f
4 i t ' s not of f er ed t o pr ove t he t r ut h of t he mat t er
5 asser t ed but r at her t o demonst r at e a bi as or mot i ve
6 on t hi s wi t nesses' par t t o shush anybody who' s
7 suggest i ng somet hi ng t hat i s count er ed what he t ol d
8 t he pol i ce i n whi ch ef f ect ed a wr ongf ul ar r est - -
9 THE COURT: I t st i l l i s sust ai ned. I t hi nk
10 i t ' s, at best , mar gi nal l y r el evant on some t angent i al
11 i ssue t o t hi s case whi ch i s whet her or not - - and I ' ve
12 t ol d you t hi s t hr ee t i mes, whet her or not you di d
13 wi l l f ul l y and unl awf ul l y st eal , t ake and car r y away
14 t he per sonal pr oper t y of anot her , t hat ' s one count .
15 Then t he ot her count i s whet her on or about
16 t he 20t h day of August , you di d wi l l f ul l y and
17 unl awf ul l y possess or wi t hhol d st ol en goods. Al l
18 r i ght ?
19 MR. COUGHLI N: I f I coul d j ust qui ckl y - -
20 maybe t hi s i sn' t t he r i ght t i me but i f I coul d j ust
21 qui ckl y i ndi cat e, your Honor , I r espect f ul l y I bel i eve
22 i t goes t o t he wi l l f ul ness aspect and t he aspect of
23 anot her . I f somet hi ng i s goi ng t o be i n t he r i ver , I
24 t hi nk i t ' s one, i t ' s no l onger - -
Page 216
1 THE COURT: You' r e done, al l r i ght . I ' ve
2 al r eady r ul ed on i t t wi ce now.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: And per haps i t ' s j ust my
4 exper i ence, your Honor - -
5 THE COURT: Per haps i t i s but t he bot t oml i ne
6 i s I have r ul ed and you can pr oceed.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: Gr ant ed but i sn' t t her e a
8 negat i ve - -
9 THE COURT: I guess I ' mnot get t i ng t hr ough
10 t o you.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' msor r y, your Honor .
12 THE COURT: I have deni ed - - I have sust ai ned
13 t he obj ect i on and deni ed your r equest f or a
14 cont i nuance t o br i ng i n t hi s wi t ness, al l r i ght .
15 Go ahead.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r and your Honor , I ' m
17 not abl e t o pr eser ve f or t he r ecor d why I - -
18 THE COURT: You al r eady have pr eser ved f or
19 t he r ecor d, I t hi nk i t ' s qui t e appar ent . I under st and
20 what your ar gument i s.
21 MR. COUGHLI N: And I ' mj ust wonder i ng i f t hi s
22 wi nds up i n a convi ct i on i f t he appel l at e cour t mi ght
23 vi ew i t t hat way.
24 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t know what t he
Page 217
1 appel l at e cour t woul d do i f you ar e convi ct ed.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , your Honor , nei t her
3 do I .
5 Wel l , ask your quest i on.
6 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
7 Q Was there anything you heard, saw or
8 witnessed about the events in question that would make
9 you think my conduct that night was somehow different
10 than someone running up and grabbing something and
11 running away?
12 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on. I don' t
13 under st and t he quest i on, i t ' s i r r el evant , cal l s f or
14 specul at i on. At one poi nt i n t her e he asks f or i s
15 t her e anyt hi ng you hear d, t hat woul d cal l f or hear say.
17 The obj ect i on i s sust ai ned.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Unl ess i t ' s a st at ement
19 agai nst i nt er est or - -
20 THE COURT: A st at ement agai nst i nt er est of
21 who?
22 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , maybe somebody el se
23 st ol e t he phone. I ' maski ng a per ci pi ent wi t ness t o
24 t el l us what he hear d saw or hear d.
Page 218
1 MR. YOUNG. He' s al r eady t est i f i ed t o t hat ,
2 i t ' s been asked and answer ed.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t bel i eve - -
4 MR. YOUNG: A mont h or t wo mont hs ago when he
5 t est i f i ed, he t est i f i ed t o what he saw.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: And mor e nar r owl y conf i ned - -
7 THE COURT: Okay. You have 15 mi nut es l ef t .
8 So I wi l l al l ow you t o ask a quest i on t hat he had
9 per sonal knowl edge of at t he t i me, even i f i t was
10 r epet i t i ve because you have 15 mi nut es.
11 So you use your 15 mi nut es as you t hi nk best
12 except t o t he ext ent t hat Mr . Young cer t ai nl y has t he
13 r i ght t o obj ect .
14 MR. COUGHLI N: Al l r i ght . Yes, si r , your
15 Honor .
17 Q Mr. Zarate, was there anything about my
18 conduct that night that according to your morals and
19 beliefs systems was --
20 THE COURT: That ' s not a pr oper quest i on,
21 si r , even wi t hout an obj ect i on, accor di ng t o hi s
22 mor al s and bel i ef syst em. The quest i on i s whet her you
23 vi ol at ed t he l aw i n t he St at e of Nevada and Washoe
24 Count y.
Page 219
1 MR. COUGHLI N: The i nt ent goes t o t hat and
2 cul pabi l i t y goes t o t hat .
3 THE COURT: Wel l , t hen ask hi ma quest i on
4 t hat deal s wi t h - - I don' t know how he can r ead your
5 mi nd but ask hi ma quest i on t hat has t o do wi t h
6 pr ovi ng - -
7 MR. COUGHLI N: He can r ead my mi nd by my
8 act i ons t hat ni ght - -
9 THE COURT: Wel l , t hen ask hi mabout your
10 act i ons speci f i cal l y.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: That ' s what I ' mt r yi ng t o do.
12 THE COURT: Wel l , you' r e not . You' r e aski ng
13 about mor al i t y and ever yt hi ng el se.
14 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , he has t o br i ng t o bear
15 hi s f eel i ngs on t hi ngs t o t est i f y t o.
16 THE COURT: I t ' s not hi s f eel i ngs. You have
17 t o say, " Di d I do t hi s, di d I do t hat ?
19 Q Did I to something that night --
20 THE COURT: No. Speci f i cal l y ask hi m
21 somet hi ng t hat you di d or woul d have done had you been
22 cul pabl e I guess. I don' t know what your ar gument i s.
24 Q From what you know about my actions that
Page 220
1 night, how would you distinguish them from someone who
2 just runs up, grabs something, steals it and leaves?
3 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor .
4 THE COURT: You can ask t he quest i on, " Di d I
5 r un up? Di d I st eal i t ? Di d I l eave?" What ever i t
6 i s t hat you' r e t r yi ng t o ask but not what some t hi r d
7 per son mi ght have done under t he ci r cumst ances, okay.
8 " Di d I t ake - -
9 MR. COUGHLI N: That ' s a si mpl er quest i on. I
10 want t o ask a mor e compl ex quest i on t hat yi el ds a
11 deeper answer .
12 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' mnot goi ng t o al l ow you
13 t o i nqui r e i nt o phi l osophy her e, si r , or mor al i t y,
14 i t ' s t he l aw.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: I know i t ' s t he l aw.
16 Phi l osophy and mor al i t y ar e t he basi s of l aw.
17 THE COURT: I t may be but he' s not a
18 phi l osopher or a l awyer . I want you t o ask a quest i on
19 of f act .
22 Q Did you -- are you aware of anything I did
23 that night that factually indicates I ran up and
24 grabbed something and stole it and ran off?
Page 221
1 A Yes. You cl ai med t he phone f r omt he f i r st
2 man and t hen you t r i ed t o go away.
3 Q Hold on a second, did you personally witness
4 me claim the phone from the first man?
5 A Yes, I di d. I wi t nessed you cl ai mt he phone
6 f r omhi m.
7 Q So if I have a video of you saying you didn't
8 personally see it but you inferred it from
9 subsequently asking the man or seeing me walk away
10 from the man but that you didn't actually technically,
11 personally witness the phone changing hands, would
12 that make your testimony here untruthful?
13 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, your Honor , t o t he
14 l ast par t of maki ng i t unt r ut hf ul .
15 THE COURT: Agai n, I t ol d you bef or e i f you
16 have a pr i or i nconsi st ent st at ement or subsequent
17 i nconsi st ent st at ement , t hen ask hi mpr eci sel y what i t
18 i s t hat he al l egedl y sai d bef or e.
21 Q That night about seven days after I was
22 arrested, seven days after I was released from jail,
23 did you allow me to video you and ask you some
24 questions?
Page 222
1 A Wel l , I di dn' t aut hor i ze i t by any means, but
2 I was wi t h my f r i ends, yes, and you wer e aski ng
3 quest i ons.
4 Q Okay.
5 Did you answer a question of mine to the
6 effect of did you personally --
7 THE COURT: Not t o t he ef f ect , exact l y what
8 i t i s. I f you' r e goi ng t o conf r ont hi m, ask hi mwhat
9 i t was t hat he al l egedl y st at ed.
11 Q That night did I ask you whether you
12 personally witnessed the phone change hands?
13 A That ni ght , I don' t r ecal l answer i ng any of
14 your quest i ons.
15 Q Did you attempt to shush Nicole Watson or
16 dissuade her from answering any of my questions?
17 A For t he saf et y of my f r i ends and mysel f , yes,
18 I di d.
19 Q So how so for the safety of yourself?
20 THE COURT: Okay, si r , we' r e done. I sai d
21 you can ask hi mspeci f i cal l y what i t was t hat he sai d
22 t hat i s cont r ar y t o what he' s sayi ng t oday and you
23 have yet t o do t hat .
Page 223
1 Q And it seemed like he -- all right. That
2 night about seven days after the arrest, did you
3 specifically indicate you personally eyewitnessed the
4 phone changing hands?
5 A I don' t bel i eve I i ndi cat ed anyt hi ng i n t hat
6 vi deo because I don' t r ecal l answer i ng any of your
7 quest i ons.
8 Q Okay.
9 And I'd like to -- for an offer of proof,
10 your Honor, I'd like to offer a video wherein Mr.
11 Zarate admits -- and I covered this in my brief. I
12 typed out the words that were used in that video and
13 the questions --
14 THE COURT: Wel l , you have your br i ef s so
15 her e you can come up and get i t .
16 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t know i f - - I ' mso
17 l i mi t ed on t i me, your Honor .
18 THE COURT: You' r e Mot i on For Di smi ssal ,
19 Memor andumOf Law?
20 MR. COUGHLI N: Somet hi ng i n t he r ecor d.
21 THE COURT: Somet hi ng i n t he r ecor d?
22 MR. COUGHLI N: Yeah. I bel i eve i t ' s i n t he
23 Memor andumof Law and i t ' s i n t he Mot i on f or Di smi ssal
24 because I f el t i t was so key.
Page 224
1 But t her e' s a passage i n t her e wher e t her e' s
2 a vi deo, I bel i eve i t ' s ent i t l ed Vi deo 0100 wher ei n
3 Mr . Rober t Dawson whomal so qui ckl y l et me j ust say I
4 pr oper l y subpoenaed hi mand t her e' s a basi s f or a
5 cont i nuance f or hi s f ai l i ng t o appear .
6 I ' l l move on wher ei n he and Mr . Zar at e al ong
7 wi t h Ms. Wat son and Mr . Dawson, Col t on Templ et on ar e
8 t her e wher ei n Mr . Zar at e i ndi cat es he di dn' t
9 per sonal l y eyewi t ness t he phone changi ng hands f r om
10 t he man wi t h t he si xpack t o me but r at her i nf er r ed
11 i t - -
12 THE COURT: Wel l , t hen ask hi mt hat . Di d he
13 st at e t hat he di dn' t per sonal l y wi t ness but i nf er r ed
14 i t .
16 Q Did you?
17 A Wel l , t hi s t ook pl ace a year ago so det ai l s
18 ar e a l i t t l e bi t f uzzy. However , I do r emember Mr .
19 Coughl i n speaki ng wi t h t he man and t hen a f ew moment s
20 l at er , I r emember hi mon hi s bi ke l ooki ng at t he cel l
21 phone. At t hat poi nt , we wer e uncer t ai n of whose
22 phone i t was. Then af t er we st ar t ed t o pi ece t oget her
23 t he i nf or mat i on, t hat ' s when we went and t r i ed t o go
24 cl ai mi t f r omhi m.
Page 225
2 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
3 Q So would it be fair to say in that response,
4 you admit that you didn't personally witness the phone
5 changing hands?
6 THE COURT: He per sonal l y wi t nessed you wi t h
7 t he phone - -
8 MR. COUGHLI N: That ' s not what I ' maski ng.
9 I ' maski ng whet her he - - r ecei vi ng i s one of t he
10 el ement s. Ther e mi ght be an i nf er ence of r ecei vi ng
11 but - -
12 THE COURT: I nf er ence of r ecei vi ng? The
13 cour t makes t he i nf er ences, but he t est i f i ed t hat he
14 saw you t al k t o t he man and he saw you r i de away wi t h
15 t he phone af t er war ds, af t er t he man had hel d up t he
16 phone and.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Ri ght , but shen t he D A asked
18 hi ma quest i on, i t ' s a l ot st r onger . And you quer i ed
19 hi m, your Honor . You sai d, " Wai t a second, you
20 per sonal l y eyewi t nessed t hi s and t hat wi t ness at t hat
21 t i me - -
22 THE COURT: Once agai n, he' s sayi ng, i n
23 essence, he made a concl usi on but he' s cl ar i f yi ng i t
24 now f or t he r ecor d t hat he made an i nf er ence.
Page 226
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay and t hat ' s ki nd of key
2 because you, as t he j udge i n t hi s cour t , asked hi m
3 under penal t y of per j ur y pr evi ousl y, " Wai t , you
4 per sonal l y eyewi t nessed t hi s?" And at t hat t i me, t hi s
5 wi t ness who has a mot i ve not t o be f ound as someone
6 who ef f ect ed a wr ongf ul ar r est or - -
7 THE COURT: What mot i ve?
8 MR. COUGHLI N: Because i f I see somet hi ng
9 t hat wr ecks somebody' s l i f e and get s t hemar r est ed
10 wr ongf ul l y and - -
11 THE COURT: Wai t a second, si r .
12 MR. COUGHLI N: I mi ght have a mot i ve t o t r y
13 t o pr event t hat f r omsomet hi ng comi ng t o l i ght .
14 THE COURT: Yes, i f you wer e ar r est ed
15 wr ongf ul l y whi ch we haven' t det er mi ned yet so - - but
16 i f you st ol e t he cel l phone, i t wasn' t wr ongf ul ,
17 r i ght ?
18 MR. COUGHLI N: We don' t know i f i t was a
19 smash and gr ab j ob and now r un of f or i f somebody
20 f ound i t and of f er ed i t and was goi ng t o t hr ow i t i n
21 t he r i ver and somebody sai d, you know what , r at her
22 t han havi ng t hat phone be i n t he r i ver at 15 per cent
23 unempl oyment downt own Reno - -
24 THE COURT: You ar e ar gui ng and t est i f yi ng
Page 227
1 basi cal l y. I f you want t o t est i f y, you' r e f r ee t o
2 t est i f y.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' l l absol ut el y t est i f y.
4 THE COURT: You have f i ve mi nut es l ef t wi t h
5 t hi s wi t ness so do what you want t o do.
7 Can I i mpeach hi s t est i mony by showi ng hi ma
8 vi deo?
9 THE COURT: I ' ve al r eady concl uded t hat hi s
10 t est i mony t oday i s consi st ent wi t h what you sai d you
11 di d.
14 Q Did you see the phone light up -- what
15 happened initially; where were you located in the
16 skate plaza?
17 A I s t her e anyway I can dr aw a pi ct ur e?
18 THE COURT: We have pi ct ur es her e. Her e' s
19 one and di d you t ake my pi ct ur es, si r ?
20 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t bel i eve so but i f I
21 di d - -
22 THE COURT: Ar e t hey exhi bi t number s on t he
23 back?
24 MR. COUGHLI N: I can j ust l eave t hi s wi t h
Page 228
1 you.
2 THE COURT: Let me t ake t hose back and we' l l
3 f i nd t he ones - -
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Mr . Zar at e, di d you t est i f y
5 t hat - -
6 THE COURT: Hang on, Mr . Coughl i n, because i f
7 t he pi ct ur es ar e not her e - -
8 MR. COUGHLI N: Then I ' l l j ust move on because
9 my t i me i s l i mi t ed, your Honor .
10 THE COURT: We have Exhi bi t 6 so he can l ook
11 at t hat one, t hat ' s t he one t hat you' ve r ef er r ed t o
12 but i f we don' t have t hem, t hen you must .
13 MR. COUGHLI N: Can we j ust use one of t hese
14 pi ct ur es I have?
15 THE COURT: Wel l , we have Exhi bi t 6 t he one
16 you' ve been t al ki ng about .
18 Q Okay, great.
19 Can you hold that up Mr. Zarate and indicate
20 where you were at the point in time that it was
21 discovered that the phone was missing?
22 A Sur e. I was r i ght ar ound her e i n t hi s ar ea
23 acr oss.
24 Q Let the record reflect that's a northwesterly
Page 229
1 part of the ledge along the skate plaza.
2 Do you know where --
3 MR. YOUNG: Looks l i ke t he sout hwest er n par t .
4 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
5 Q Near Cal-Neva, that's north; right?
6 A Ther e' s l edges t hat r un acr oss next t o t he
7 gr ass and I was si t t i ng r i ght ar ound her e when I f i r st
8 wi t nessed t hemt al ki ng.
9 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . So nor t h of t he r i ver
10 at t he cent er of t he ci r cl e on t he upper nor t h edge of
11 t he ci r cl e?
15 Q Okay.
16 So that would be kind of a northwesterly part
17 and then where was Mr. Goble at that time?
18 A Fr omwhat I r emember , he was up on t he ot her
19 si de ar ound t hi s ar ea cl oser t o t he movi e t heat er .
20 Q So he was kind of on the westerly side, okay,
21 near Virginia Street.
22 So at that point, you could hear this man see
23 the hat -- where did he find the hat?
24 A The man f ound i t on t he gr ound acr oss f r om
Page 230
1 wher e Cor y was cl oser t o t he t r ai l er r i ght ar ound t hi s
2 ar ea.
3 Q Okay.
4 And will you show that to the judge where
5 you're pointing?
6 A I t was r i ght ar ound her e by t he t r ai l er .
7 Q Okay.
8 And so that was that, it was just kind of on
9 the ground there on the concrete?
10 A Yes, I bel i eve hi s phone and hi s hat wer e
11 t oget her .
12 Q And it wasn't on the ledge?
13 A No. Ther e' s not a l edge over t her e.
14 Q So the phone was just kind of on the ground
15 downtown Reno, 11:30 at night, Saturday, 15 percent
16 unemployment four years in a row, phone was on the
17 ground downtown Reno?
18 A Yes, i t was t her e.
19 Q If someone picked it up and offered it and
20 Cory didn't hear him offer it up to anybody?
21 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, i f he doesn' t have
22 per sonal knowl edge of i t .
23 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , he mi ght .
24 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , you can ask does he.
Page 231
1 BY MR. COUGHLI N:
2 Q Did you see him offer it up and just ask
3 whether or not Cory was aware of it?
4 A I di d not - - we r ecogni zed Cor y' s hat and
5 t hat ' s what we saw f i r st and t hat ' s when we cl ai med i t
6 f or Cor y because we knew i t was hi s. However , we
7 di dn' t know i f he had hi s phone wi t h hi mor not and
8 t hen t hat ' s when t he man came i n and t he same st or y.
9 Q So Cory didn't appear to hear the man or be
10 aware or close enough to his phone --
11 A No, he was on t he ot her si de of t he par k.
12 Q And that would be near Virginia Street. Is
13 that where his Jeep was parked?
14 A I don' t r ecal l wher e he was par ked t hat
15 ni ght .
16 Q Okay.
17 Then did you make a call -- well, I believe
18 you testified you inferred the phone was taken by me
19 and then what happened at that point; did you call
20 somebody; did you run over and do something with me or
21 what happened?
22 A We asked you ki ndl y f or t he phone back, and
23 we woul d j ust go our separ at e ways af t er t hat .
24 Q So you went from here and then you ran after
Page 232
1 me?
2 A No. You t r i ed t o get away on your bi cycl e.
3 Q Who approached me first?
4 A I bel i eve i t was Cor y.
5 Q But not you?
6 A I di d not appr oach you f i r st , no.
7 Q Did you witness the phone light up in my
8 pocket?
9 A I di d.
10 Q Where were you when that happened?
11 A On t he br i dge and I ' l l poi nt t hat out .
12 Q That's where you're saying I was?
13 A That ' s wher e you wer e when I saw t he phone
14 l i ght up.
15 Q And where were you, when you saw it?
16 A I was pr obabl y t wo or t hr ee f eet away f r om
17 you.
18 Q You weren't on the other side of the park?
19 A No. I was r i ght i n f r ont of you.
20 Q Isn't that what you testified at the previous
21 trial that you discerned from the other side of the
22 park the phone lighting up in my pocket all the way
23 over on the bridge?
24 A I don' t bel i eve t hat , si r . I bel i eve I
Page 233
1 ment i oned t hat we enci r cl ed so you coul d not l eave on
2 t he br i dge and you had - - and t hat ' s when I wi t nessed
3 my f r i end cal l i ng Cor y' s phone and t hen t he phone
4 l i ght i ng up i n your pocket - -
5 Q What friend called Cory's phone?
6 A I ' mnot sur e. I don' t r emember .
7 THE COURT: Okay, t i me i s up. I ' l l al l ow one
8 mor e quest i on.
11 Q What was the full extent of your
12 conversations with the Reno Police Department that
13 night?
14 THE COURT: Ful l ext ent ? You can ask a
15 quest i on, not a nar r at i ve.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , your Honor hi s pr evi ous
17 t est i mony i ndi cat ed i t woul dn' t t ake t oo l ong.
18 MR. YOUNG: I guess i f i t ' s hi s pr evi ous
19 t est i mony, i t ' s been asked and answer ed.
20 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' l l al l ow t he one
21 quest i on.
22 THE WI TNESS: When t he pol i ce ar r i ved, I
23 vol unt eer ed mysel f because I knew what happened.
24 Af t er t hat , I bel i eve he t ook Mr . Gobl e and mysel f
Page 234
1 asi de and I sai d I wi t nessed what happened. I ' l l
2 answer any quest i ons you have but af t er t hat , I f or get
3 - - I don' t know who t he pol i ce of f i cer was but he came
4 up and I j ust f i l l ed out a pol i ce r epor t . I di dn' t
5 di scuss any f act s of t he case wi t h hi m.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: So one f ol l ow- up, your Honor ?
7 THE COURT: No, I sai d one quest i on.
9 THE COURT: Wel l , wai t , does t he St at e have
10 any cr oss?
11 MR. YOUNG: No, your Honor .
12 THE COURT: Do you have any ot her pi ct ur es
13 down t her e, si r ?
14 THE WI TNESS: I don' t see any, si r .
15 THE COURT: Do you have t he copi es because
16 none of t hemar e her e?
17 MR. YOUNG: I bel i eve t her e was f our phot os
18 admi t t ed.
19 THE CLERK: Ther e wer e.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: I wi l l l ook f or t hem, your
21 Honor .
22 THE COURT: They' r e def i ni t el y not her e and
23 we di dn' t t ake t hem.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: I f ound i t , I ' msor r y.
Page 235
1 THE COURT: Those ar e t he exhi bi t s, al l
2 r i ght . Mr . Young?
3 MR. YOUNG: I have no quest i ons of t hi s
4 wi t ness.
5 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . You' r e f r ee t o go,
6 si r .
7 MR. COUGHLI N: Thank you, Mr . Zar at e.
8 THE COURT: Do you have any ot her wi t nesses?
9 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , and I have t he
10 ci t at i on and t he audi o keyed up f or wher e you t ol d me
11 you woul d wai ve t he wi t ness f ees, i t ' s t he 48- mi nut e
12 mar k of f i l e t wo on Oct ober 22nd.
13 I ' msor r y, your Honor , you mi ght have al r eady
14 t ol d me you r ul ed on t hi s, but I woul d l i ke t o cal l
15 Ni col e Wat son and Rober t Dawson, but t hey f ai l ed t o
16 appear - - and I ' msor r y, i f you' ve al r eady r ul ed on
17 t hi s, your Honor . I ' ve been not get t i ng much sl eep
18 l at el y. Even t hough t he Bar hear i ng was l ast week
19 t her e' s been a l ot of post hear i ng wor k associ at ed
20 wi t h i t .
21 THE COURT: Wel l , t hey ar e not her e but
22 anyhow, l et me hear what you have on t he t ape. You
23 can pl ay t hat . I ' l l al l ow you t o.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Can I pl ay t he t ape of Ni col e
Page 236
1 Wat son?
2 THE COURT: No, of my or der .
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Oh yes, si r . You sai d i t was
4 cued up and r eady t o go.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r . Ther e we go.
7 THE COURT: Okay, si r , what I was t al ki ng
8 about i s I woul d wai ve t he ser vi ce cost s by t he
9 sher i f f whi ch we can do t hr ough t he i n f or ma pauper i s.
10 We have no means of wai vi ng t he wi t ness f ees
11 or pr ovi di ng t he wi t ness f ees. We have no f und f or
12 t hat , but we do have t he abi l i t y t o or der t he sher i f f
13 t o ser ve a subpoena wi t hout payment .
14 Now, I don' t even know i f you f i l e t he mot i on
15 f or i n f or ma of pauper i s t o wai ve any ser vi ce f ee.
16 MR. COUGHLI N: I bel i eve I f i l ed a mot i on f or
17 i n f or ma pauper i s and - -
18 THE COURT: You f i l ed a mot i on f or i n f or ma
19 pauper i s but whet her you f i l ed one si nce t hat dat e
20 cover i ng t he ser vi ce f ees but be t hat as i t may, I di d
21 not wai ve t he wi t ness f ee. I n f act , I speci f i cal l y
22 sai d t he cont r ar y i f you l i st en t o i t .
23 MR. COUGHLI N: I bel i eve I hear d you ver bat i m
24 say wai ve t he wi t ness f ees.
Page 237
1 THE COURT: And by t hat I meant t he ser vi ce
2 f ees but okay. I f you l i st en t o t hat agai n, you' l l
3 hear what I sai d.
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay, your Honor . I bel i eve I
5 r easonabl y r el i ed upon a r easonabl e i nt er pr et at i on
6 t hat i n f act i t was not - -
7 THE COURT: Wel l , a r easonabl e i nt er pr et at i on
8 when I sai d t he cour t has no f unds t o pay wi t nesses?
9 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I bel i eve t hat goes t o
10 wher e you l at er sai d, " But I may def er t hat and make
11 you pay t heml at er . "
12 THE COURT: Yeah. I sai d I may def er i t .
13 MR. COUGHLI N: No. I bel i eve you sai d, " I
14 may make you pay i t l at er . " But you wer e def i ni t el y
15 i t seemed t o me bei ng r at her char i t abl e t o me, si r ,
16 and al l owi ng me t o at t empt t o get t he t r ut h out t her e
17 even t hough I ' mi ndi gent .
18 THE COURT: But t he pr obl emi s t hi s, si r , a
19 wi t ness does not have t o r espond absent a wi t ness f ee
20 bei ng advanced.
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , si r , I don' t have t o
22 show up f or Mr . Ci t y At t or ney Skau' s e- mai l i ng me
23 not i ce of a hear i ng.
24 THE COURT: You di dn' t have t o show up.
Page 238
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , he t ol d me you sai d I
2 di d so I di d.
3 THE COURT: No. What I sai d was I want ed t o
4 make sur e you wer e ser ved one way or t he ot her . So I
5 sai d t hat i n addi t i on t o ser vi ng you by r egul ar
6 ser vi ce, t hat he at t empt t o get ahol d of you by e- mai l
7 because I do know t hat ' s how you communi cat e wi t h t he
8 cour t .
9 MR. COUGHLI N: And he seems t o have
10 i nt er pr et ed t hat t o aut hor i ze ser vi ce - -
11 THE COURT: Wel l , i t doesn' t mat t er . So you
12 woul dn' t have been her e so you woul dn' t have had any
13 say at al l . I woul d have j ust gr ant ed t he or der
14 wi t hout t he say.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , t ypi cal l y t hat ' s wher e
16 t he cour t house sanct uar y comes i n. You say, " Wel l , I
17 woul dn' t have been her e because you di dn' t have
18 per sonal j ur i sdi ct i on and you coul dn' t dr ag me i nt o
19 t he st at e. "
20 THE COURT: Si r , I di dn' t dr ag you i nt o t he
21 st at e. I gave you an oppor t uni t y t o ar gue agai nst a
22 mot i on whi ch was made pr oper l y. I n addi t i on, I gave
23 you a chance t o r espond by l ast Thur sday. So as f ar
24 as I ' mconcer ned, t he r esponse was, t o some ext ent ,
Page 239
1 okay and t o some ext ent , i t was nonr esponsi ve but t o
2 t he ext ent i t was r esponsi ve, I di d or der t hat t hose
3 subpoenas I woul d r eser ve r ul i ng on and we ar e now at
4 t hat poi nt .
5 I amf i ndi ng, as a mat t er of f act , t hat I di d
6 not aut hor i ze you t o ser ve subpoenas wi t hout
7 pr of f er i ng t he wi t ness f ees. I di d i ndi cat e t hat we
8 had no f unds t o pay t hembut t hat I woul d al l ow you t o
9 ser ve t hemwi t hout cost s.
10 The bot t oml i ne i s I di d r ul e t hat t hese
11 peopl e wer e ser ved, but I amf i ndi ng t hat t hey wer e
12 not pr of f er ed t he wi t ness f ees. By your own t est i mony
13 you i ndi cat ed t hat you di d not i ncl ude a check f or
14 t hese peopl e.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , may I pl ay t hat
16 por t i on agai n?
17 THE COURT: No, you may not . I al r eady hear d
18 i t . You wi l l have what ever ar gument you have i s
19 r eser ved f or t he f ut ur e.
20 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , one t hi ng j ust f or
21 pur poses of t he r ecor d t hat I woul d l i ke t o put on t he
22 r ecor d. Wi t h r espect t o t he mot i on t o cont i nue by Mr .
23 Coughl i n due t o Ms. Wat son' s non- appear ance her e, one
24 of t he r equi r ement s t o get a cont i nuance i s t o show
Page 240
1 t hat t he t est i mony or pur por t ed t est i mony woul d have
2 some bear i ng on t he case and f r omever yt hi ng t hat
3 we' ve hear d f r omMr . Coughl i n and t he at t empt s t o get
4 Ms. Wat son' s t est i mony or what she shoul d say i n, ar e
5 what you woul d obj ect t o as hear say anyway and i t
6 woul d not be comi ng i n. So i n addi t i on t o ever yt hi ng
7 you' r e sayi ng, t her e' s no basi s t o cont i nue t o get her
8 her e.
9 THE COURT: I al r eady r ul ed on t hat .
10 MR. YOUNG: I j ust want t hat on t he r ecor d.
11 MR. COUGHLI N: And t o t he ext ent Mr . Young
12 has made an ar gument , i f I may i ndi cat e, your Honor ,
13 one of t he el ement s i s f r omanot her i f somet hi ng i s
14 about t o be t hr own i n a t r ash can i t ' s ar guabl y no
15 one' s anymor e.
16 THE COURT: Wel l , you' l l be abl e t o ar gue
17 t hat . The onl y t hi ng I ' mr ul i ng on r i ght now i s I ' m
18 denyi ng your cont i nuance t o br i ng i n t hese wi t nesses,
19 t he t wo wi t nesses.
21 THE COURT: And do you have any ot her
22 wi t nesses i ncl udi ng your sel f i f you wi sh t o t est i f y?
23 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r . I do i nt end t o
24 t est i f y, but I al so woul d l i ke t o put on evi dence
Page 241
1 pr i or t o t hat .
2 THE COURT: Evi dence of what , si r ?
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Al l t hese vi deos.
4 THE COURT: You' l l need t o t est i f y.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Because somebody needs t o
6 aut hent i cat e i t ?
7 THE COURT: Yeah, someone needs t o
8 aut hent i cat e i t . You sai d you wer e pr esent when t he
9 vi deos wer e made, but I wi l l t el l you t hi s agai n, t hat
10 any vi deo made af t er t he f act unl ess you can show
11 di r ect l y t he r el evance, I ' mnot goi ng t o admi t i t i n
12 evi dence, al l r i ght , even i f you aut hent i cat e i t ; al l
13 r i ght ?
15 THE COURT: Ar e you r eady t o go?
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Cer t ai nl y. Al l r i ght and i f
17 may - -
18 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , wi t h r espect t o Mr .
19 Coughl i n t est i f yi ng, he j ust i ndi cat ed t hat - - I
20 bel i eve he i ndi cat ed he wi shes t o t est i f y. I woul d
21 ask t hat t he cour t canvas Mr . Coughl i n t hat he has t he
22 const i t ut i onal r i ght t o r emai n si l ent .
23 THE COURT: I t hought I al r eady had.
24 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , I ' mnot sur e t hat we have.
Page 242
1 I under st and Mr . Coughl i n pr obabl y knows hi s r i ght s
2 but f or pur poses of t hi s case, we need t o put t hi s on
3 t he r ecor d.
4 THE COURT: Si r , I do have st andby counsel
5 pr esent , f or one t hi ng and we' l l - - i f you wi sh, I ' l l
6 al l ow you t o consul t wi t h hi mbef or e you wai ve your
7 const i t ut i onal r i ght s t o r emai n si l ent and you
8 under st and you have t he const i t ut i onal r i ght t o r emai n
9 si l ent ; i s t hat cor r ect ?
10 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , I do. The onl y
11 ext ent t o whi ch I ' msomewhat uncl ear on i s when a
12 def endant i s pr oceedi ng pr o se, t her e' s a spl i t i n t he
13 case l aw wi t h r espect t o whet her t hey' r e maki ng swor n
14 t est i mony or t hey' r e j ust si mpl y of f er i ng ar gument or
15 quest i on such as pr osecut or s do at t i mes.
16 THE COURT: Wel l , i f you' r e of f er i ng
17 evi dence, you' r e t est i f yi ng. I f you' r e ar gui ng t he
18 f act s t hat have been admi t t ed i n evi dence, t hen you' r e
19 act i ng as an at t or ney pr o se.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r and J udge Nash Hol mes
21 swor e me at t he begi nni ng of t hat t r i al at i ssue
22 because she i ndi cat ed I bel i eve t hat she not i ces pr o
23 se def endant s t end t o t est i f y - -
24 THE COURT: I don' t agr ee wi t h t hat posi t i on.
Page 243
1 My posi t i on i s you' r e act i ng as an at t or ney.
2 I f you wi sh t o ar gue t he f act s t hat have been admi t t ed
3 i nt o evi dence, you may do so wi t hout t est i f yi ng. I f
4 you wi sh t o st at e f act s t hat ar e not i n evi dence, t hen
5 you' l l need t o t est i f y.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: And I ' mnot sur pr i sed you say
7 t hat , si r , and I don' t bel i eve you' r e a l i f el ong
8 pr osecut or l i ke a l ot of j udges and t hat ' s somet hi ng
9 t hat I r eal l y appr eci at e about you, si r .
10 THE COURT: Wel l , appr eci at e i t or not ,
11 t hat ' s my r ul i ng. So t he bot t oml i ne t hough i s you
12 have t he r i ght t o r emai n si l ent . Do you wi sh t o
13 exer ci se your r i ght t o r emai n si l ent ?
14 MR. COUGHLI N: No, I don' t t hi nk so, si r . I
15 t hi nk i t ' s - -
16 THE COURT: And do you wi sh t o consul t wi t h
17 Mr . Lesl i e bef or e you make t hat det er mi nat i on?
18 MR. COUGHLI N: Nor mal l y I woul d because Mr .
19 Lesl i e i s a weal t h of i nf or mat i on i n pr of essi onal
20 exper t i se but i t seems as t hough you set somewhat an
21 end poi nt f or t hi s t o t he ext ent we' r e r unni ng up
22 agai nst i t - -
23 THE COURT: Wel l , t he end poi nt i n your case
24 i s when you t est i f y t o somet hi ng t hat ' s not r el evant
Page 244
1 but ot her t han t hat , I wi l l al l ow you t o t est i f y.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: So i f - -
3 THE COURT: Mr . Lesl i e?
4 MR. LESLI E: I f I may pr ovi de some i nput ,
5 your Honor . He' s been advi sed of hi s r i ght t o t est i f y
6 or not t est i f y under t he Fi f t h Amendment . He' s been
7 advi sed of t he possi bl e consequences, and I ' ve
8 pr ovi ded hi mwi t h not i f i cat i on t hat i f he want s t o
9 consul t wi t h me, f r ankl y, t her e' s not a l ot of r ocket
10 sci ence t o i t . I ' ve consul t ed wi t h hi mpr evi ousl y
11 bef or e he put me as st andby counsel so i t woul dn' t
12 t ake mor e t han a mi nut e. He' s had mont hs t o mul l t hi s
13 over .
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 Al so, si r , I ' mgoi ng t o of f er you t he
16 oppor t uni t y, at t hi s t i me i f you wi sh, t o have Mr .
17 Lesl i e act as your at t or ney f or pur poses of your
18 exami nat i on i f you want t o t est i f y.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: No di sr espect t o Mr . Lesl i e,
20 si r , but I woul d pr ef er t o pr oceed as I i nt ended t o
21 do.
22 THE COURT: And you under st and t hat i f you do
23 t ake t he st and, you can be cr oss- exami ned?
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , I do.
Page 245
1 THE COURT: And you under st and ever yt hi ng you
2 say can and wi l l be used agai nst you i n t hese
3 pr oceedi ngs?
5 THE COURT: And can be used i n your f avor as
6 wel l obvi ousl y?
7 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, your Honor . I j ust don' t
8 know i f t o t he ext ent i f t he shoe was on t he ot her
9 f oot and Mr . Young sought t o i nt r oduce a vi deo r i ght
10 now, I ' ma l i t t l e uncl ear woul d he need a wi t ness t o
11 aut hent i cat e? Coul d he cer t i f y i t as an of f i cer of
12 t he cour t ?
13 THE COURT: No. He woul d have a wi t ness
14 aut hent i cat e i t .
15 MR. COUGHLI N: He woul d?
16 THE COURT: Yes.
17 MR. COUGHLI N: Even i f he hi msel f f i l med t he
18 vi deo?
19 THE COURT: I f he hi msel f f i l med i t , he
20 cannot be t he at t or ney i n t he case. You ar e i n a
21 di f f er ent si t uat i on. You can' t be an at t or ney and a
22 wi t ness i n t he case nor mal l y.
23 MR. COUGHLI N: Unl ess you' r e a one- man band?
24 THE COURT: Wel l , you ar e but t he nor mal r ul e
Page 246
1 i s i f you know you' r e goi ng t o be a wi t ness i n a case
2 and you' r e an at t or ney, you' r e supposed t o t r y and
3 wi t hdr aw f r omt hat case. I mean, t hat ' s t he nor mal
4 r ul e.
6 THE COURT: But t hat i s a speci al si t uat i on,
7 si r . So ar e you r eady t o pr oceed?
8 MR. COUGHLI N: I am, si r .
9 So i f I coul d j ust cl ar i f y and I hope t he
10 cour t has seen t hat I ' mt r yi ng t o br i sk up my pace
11 her e.
12 THE COURT: Act ual l y I don' t not i ce t hat
13 r i ght now.
14 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , her e' s my poi nt i s t hat
15 i f 5: 00 o' cl ock comes, i s t hat i t ?
16 THE COURT: Wel l si r , I wi l l det er mi ne, at
17 t hat t i me, i f we' r e doi ng somet hi ng t hat i s r el evant
18 t o t hi s case, t hen you wi l l be abl e t o t est i f y as l ong
19 as you' r e t est i f yi ng t o somet hi ng r el evant and
20 ot her wi se admi ssi bl e, I wi l l al l ow you t o t est i f y.
21 To t he ext ent t hat i t ' s obj ect ed t o and I
22 r ul e - - I sust ai n t he obj ect i on, t hen you wi l l not be
23 abl e t o t est i f y.
Page 247
1 Then i n t hat vei n, your Honor , I woul d l i ke
2 t o of f er i nt o evi dence t he mat er i al s I ' ve newl y been
3 pr ovi ded by t he Reno Ci t y At t or ney, Mr . Skau, i n
4 accor d wi t h your di r ect i on and he was gr aci ousl y, I
5 appr eci at ed hi mgi vi ng me t hat ECOM - -
6 THE COURT: Si r , you wi l l need t o t est i f y.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. So I do need t o t est i f y
8 and t hat ' s f ai r because you woul d make Mr . Young have
9 a wi t ness do i t , r i ght ?
10 THE COURT: Wel l , i f you' r e goi ng t o of f er
11 somet hi ng i nt o evi dence, I j ust t ol d you t hat t hr ee
12 t i mes.
13 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , f or t he r ecor d, i t ' s
14 not t hat Mr . Coughl i n hi msel f needs t o t est i f y. For
15 hi mt o admi t evi dence, he needs a wi t ness and i f Mr .
16 Coughl i n has not put t hi s pur por t ed evi dence on wi t h
17 any of t he ot her wi t nesses he cal l ed, t hen i t f al l s t o
18 hi mbut he has, l i ke you sai d, t he r i ght t o r emai n
19 si l ent and t hat coul d not be hel d agai nst hi m,
20 i r r espect i ve of what evi dence he want s t o put i nt o
21 evi dence.
22 THE COURT: And al so, si r , t he ot her t hi ng
23 j ust because you t est i f y, doesn' t make evi dence
24 admi ssi bl e t hat woul d not ot her wi se be admi ssi bl e, i t
Page 248
1 has t o be somet hi ng t hat you have per sonal knowl edge
2 of t hat you wer e ei t her a wi t ness t o or ot her wi se.
3 Some of t hese document s I may admi t and - - I
4 mean, i f i t wi l l expedi t e t hi s, ar e you t al ki ng about
5 t he ECOM r ecor ds bei ng t he act ual t r anscr i pt of t he
6 phone cal l , I mean of t he 911 cal l ?
7 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , I ' ve had t he t yped out
8 l ogs f or somet i me. They r eveal not hi ng about a
9 possi bl e f i ght . I do have t he audi o I bel i eve.
10 THE COURT: You' ve al r eady pl ayed t hat .
11 MR. COUGHLI N: No, di f f er ent wher e you sai d
12 you woul d - - t he possi bi l i t y of r evi si t i ng your r ul i ng
13 on t he Mot i on To Suppr ess and t he ext ent whi ch t hi s
14 newl y di vul ged mat er i al whi ch I bel i eve r eal l y i s t he
15 basi s f or t hat i t wasn' t di vul ged i nci dent t o Mr .
16 Goodni ght ' s pr evi ous r equest f or such pr oduct i on
17 par t i cul ar l y wher e t he St at e f ocused so heavi l y on
18 t hi s, wel l di spat ch t ol d RPD a possi bl e f i ght
19 par t i cul ar l y wher e t he ar r est i ng of f i cer ' s wi f e was
20 wor ki ng f or di spat ch t hat ni ght .
21 THE COURT: I don' t under st and. Ever yt hi ng
22 I ' ve hear d so f ar , whet her t her e was anot her di spat ch
23 based on a possi bl e f i ght , ever yt hi ng t hat ' s been
24 pr esent ed had t o do wi t h t hef t of a cel l phone. The
Page 249
1 911 cal l t hat I hear d was def i ni t el y about t hef t of a
2 cel l phone.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: And you sai d i t was t hef t , not
4 r obber y or a f i ght and a f i ght was what Mr . Young hung
5 hi s hat on t o j ust i f y t he pat down and t he i nf or mat i on
6 cul l ed f r omt he pat down - - ( i naudi bl e) pr obabl e cause
7 f or i t , t hat was i n your pl eadi ngs. You ar gued i t .
8 THE COURT: Wai t a second. You have - - what
9 I di d i n t hat case, I di d gr ant t he Mot i on To Suppr ess
10 wi t h r espect t o what was t est i f i ed t o by ot her peopl e,
11 t he hear say por t i on of i t , but now t hat ' s no l onger
12 t he case. You act ual l y got admi t t ed her e t oday t he
13 cal l i t sel f .
14 MR. COUGHLI N: No. I ' mr ef er r i ng t o t he
15 r ecor di ng of t he communi cat i ons bet ween di spat ch and
16 t he R P D whi ch i s what Mr . Young f ocused on and i t ' s
17 what Of f i cer Dur al de f ocused on. I ' mnot t al ki ng
18 about t he pr i vat e ci t i zens maki ng 911 cal l s.
19 Ther e' s al so r ecor di ngs of what t he
20 di spat cher s ar e communi cat i ng t o t he of f i cer s and i t
21 r epeat edl y Di st r i ct At t or ney Young and Of f i cer Dur al de
22 kept usi ng t hat buzz wor d, " Oh, di spat ch t ol d us
23 possi bl e f i ght , possi bl e f i ght . Wel l , of cour se we
24 had t o pat hi mdown, t her e' s a possi bl e f i ght . You' r e
Page 250
1 goi ng t o pat hi mdown, i t ' s a possi bl e f i ght , coul d be
2 weapons, somebody who f i ght s, t hat ' s weapons. "
3 Pl us we hear d al l t hi s st uf f about
4 noncompl i ant and st uf f l i ke t hat .
5 THE COURT: Wel l , what I hear d on t he 911
6 cal l , si r , was t hat you wer e sear ched i nci dent t o an
7 ar r est based on t hef t of a cel l phone.
8 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , we ar e wast i ng t i me.
9 The l ast quest i on t hat your Honor had f or Mr . Coughl i n
10 was whet her he want s t o exer ci se hi s r i ght t o r emai n
11 si l ent or exer ci se hi s r i ght t o t est i f y. He has hi med
12 and hawed. I woul d ask t hat we get an answer t o t hat .
13 I f he chooses t o t est i f y, he shoul d t ake t he st and, be
14 swor n and t est i f y. We have wast ed 10 mi nut es at l east
15 goi ng back and f or t h over not hi ng.
16 THE COURT: You ar e r i ght .
17 Si r , do you want t o t est i f y or not ?
18 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' l l answer t hat r i ght away,
19 your Honor , but i f I coul d j ust make a t en- second
20 poi nt qui ckl y. Thi s i s what Mr . Lesl i e and I - - and I
21 t hi nk i t ' s an i nt er est i ng poi nt because Mr . Lesl i e and
22 I ki nd of went back and f or t h over t hi s - -
23 THE COURT: I don' t car e what Mr . Lesl i e and
24 you went back and f or t h over . You' r e r epr esent i ng
Page 251
1 your sel f now. So t el l me do you want t o t est i f y or
2 not ?
3 MR. COUGHLI N: But now I ' mi n t he posi t i on
4 wher e Mr . Lesl i e was and sayi ng t o t he cl i ent , " Look
5 you have t o wai ve your Fi f t h i f you want t o admi t t hi s
6 vi deo i nt o evi dence, " and t he cl i ent i s sayi ng, " Wai t ,
7 I shoul d get r et ai ned by t he Fi f t h and have you get
8 t hat vi deo i nt o evi dence some ot her way. "
9 MR. YOUNG: I don' t even under st and t hat
10 ar gument , your Honor .
11 THE COURT: I don' t even know i f you can
12 aut hent i cat e t he vi deo, si r .
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I bel i eve t he ot her wi t nesses
14 t oday have al r eady aut hent i cat ed i t . I t hi nk i t was
15 t he l aw of t he case t hat you had speci f i cal l y f ound
16 t hat - -
17 THE COURT: Wai t a second, what i s i t t hat - -
18 t he vi deo, no. I t hought you wer e t al ki ng about t he
19 di spat ch?
20 MR. COUGHLI N: I was, your Honor , I got
21 si det r acked.
22 THE COURT: The di spat ch l og I wi l l al l ow you
23 t o admi t wi t hout t est i f yi ng.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Because i t ' s publ i c r ecor d?
Page 252
1 THE COURT: Wel l , I wi l l al l ow i t t o be
2 admi t t ed. I f t hat ' s al l you want , t hen we can go
3 f or war d - -
4 MR. COUGHLI N: Then I can pl ay t hat audi o?
5 THE COURT: I t hought you have a di sk
6 t r anscr i pt of i t ?
7 MR. COUGHLI N: No, i t ' s t he audi o, si r .
8 THE COURT: I wi l l al l ow t hat audi o t o be
9 pl ayed because you can' t aut hent i cat e i t anyhow.
10 MR. COUGHLI N: And I bel i eve t hey have t hese
11 r ed st amps. I don' t know i f t hat ' s mor e of a war ni ng
12 t han a cer t i f i cat i on.
13 THE COURT: But , si r , t hat ' s i t . Now, do you
14 want t o t est i f y or not because not hi ng el se i s comi ng
15 i n?
16 MR. COUGHLI N: Why, can I put t he pol i ce
17 r epor t i n evi dence?
18 MR. YOUNG: I woul d obj ect t o t hat .
19 THE COURT: No. The pol i ce r epor t t hey can' t
20 even put i n evi dence. You coul d have cr oss- exami ned
21 on t he pol i ce r epor t .
22 MR. COUGHLI N: I can' t put t he pol i ce r epor t
23 i n evi dence?
24 THE COURT: No.
Page 253
1 MR. COUGHLI N: I can' t ? I t compl et el y
2 cont r adi ct s t est i mony by al l of t hese wi t nesses.
3 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , t hat i s somet hi ng you
4 cannot do.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: I t ' s a busi ness - -
6 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , we' ve wast ed anot her
7 f i ve mi nut es. We st i l l don' t have an answer whet her
8 he want s t o t est i f y or not .
9 MR. COUGHLI N: You can' t put a pol i ce r epor t
10 i n evi dence?
11 THE COURT: I j ust t ol d you you can' t . St op
12 aski ng me.
13 MR. COUGHLI N: Can I t est i f y t o what i t says?
14 THE COURT: No.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' msor r y, I ' mnot
16 exper i enced - -
17 THE COURT: Wel l , t hen you shoul d have had an
18 at t or ney r epr esent you, si r .
19 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , he woul dn' t have put i t
20 i nt o evi dence.
21 THE COURT: Wel l , he coul dn' t , he knows t hat .
22 I f i t ' s a pr i or i nconsi st ent st at ement , i t can be used
23 f or cr oss- exami nat i on.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , t hat ' s wher e I ' m
Page 254
1 hamst r ung by t he f act t hat I di d get a r et ur n r ecei pt
2 r equest ed f or Of f i cer Dur al de and I bel i eve t hose
3 ot her of f i cer s and I do have a ver bat i mby you
4 i ndi cat i on on t he r ecor d of Oct ober 22nd t hat you wer e
5 wai vi ng wi t ness f ees, not ser vi ce f ees by t he sher i f f .
6 You made no ment i on of ser vi ce f ees. You sai d wi t ness
7 f ees and I r easonabl y r el i ed upon t hat .
8 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , because Mr . Coughl i n
9 i s r epr esent i ng hi msel f , he has a dut y of candor t o
10 t he cour t . That i s a compl et e wast e of t i me, and I
11 woul d ask t hat you ask Mr . Coughl i n whet her he want s
12 t o t est i f y or not , have hi mgi ve you an answer . I f he
13 f ai l s t o gi ve you an answer , hol d hi mi n cont empt .
14 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' mnot goi ng t o hol d hi m
15 i n cont empt . I ' mj ust goi ng t o concl ude t he t r i al ,
16 si r .
17 MR. YOUNG: However you want t o do i t because
18 he' s wast i ng ever yone' s t i me.
19 THE COURT: Do you want t o t est i f y or not ?
20 MR. COUGHLI N: I do, your Honor but - -
21 THE COURT: Okay, t hen t ake t he st and.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: And I ' l l j ust pr eser ve f or t he
23 r ecor d t he f act t hat I f eel l i ke I was j ust - -
24 THE COURT: Ei t her t ake t he st and or we
Page 255
1 concl ude t he t r i al .
2 MR. YOUNG: For t he r ecor d, t he i mpl i cat i on
3 he j ust made I ' mnot coer ci ng hi m, i t ' s t ot al l y hi s
4 r i ght .
5 MR. COUGHLI N: You' r e aski ng t o put me i n
6 j ai l agai n l i ke you di d at t he compet ency hear i ng.
7 MR. YOUNG: That has not hi ng t o do wi t h
8 whet her he has t he r i ght t o exer ci se hi s r i ght t o
9 t est i f y or not .
10 THE COURT: I di d not agr ee wi t h Mr . Young.
11 I t ol d you t hat i f you do not t est i f y, we wi l l
12 concl ude t he t r i al . We' r e not goi ng t o put you i n
13 j ai l f or not t est i f yi ng. However , i f I convi ct you,
14 you may go t o j ai l but t hat ' s a di f f er ent st or y, al l
15 r i ght ?
18 Pl ease r ai se your r i ght hand.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 Go ahead, si t down and pr oceed.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: Your Honor , t o t he ext ent I ' m
23 t est i f yi ng and t hat enabl es me t o pl ay vi deos, shoul d
24 I gr ab t hem?
Page 256
1 THE COURT: I di dn' t say i t enabl es t o pl ay
2 vi deos. I f you - - f i r st of al l , you need t o t est i f y
3 t o what you' r e pr of f er i ng because I wi l l gi ve you some
4 l at i t ude si nce you ar e t he at t or ney and t he wi t ness
5 but you wi l l need t o t est i f y as t o somet hi ng r el evant
6 t o t hi s case, i t ' s admi ssi bl e.
7 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. So t he whol e ar gument
8 t hi ng was we have t o get hi mt o t est i f y.
9 THE COURT: I t ' s not an ar gument , si r .
10 MR. COUGHLI N: By Mr . Young.
11 THE COURT: I don' t car e about ar gument .
12 I ' ve al r eady t ol d you i f you want t o st ep down, I ' m
13 not goi ng t o f or ce you t o t est i f y but once you st ar t ,
14 you wi l l be subj ect t o cr oss- exami nat i on.
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Ri ght but once I st ar t , I al so
16 get t o - - t her e' s some good t hat goes al ong wi t h i t ,
17 t hi ngs t hat peopl e mi ght vi ew as bad. I act ual l y
18 wel come t he cr oss- exami nat i on - -
19 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t want t o ar gue
20 anymor e; ar e you goi ng t o st ar t or not ?
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes. Respect f ul l y, your
22 Honor . I t hi nk t hat means I can br i ng up my
23 mat er i al s, as I ' mf unct i oni ng i n a dual r ol e.
24 THE COURT: No. You ar e not goi ng t o r ead
Page 257
1 your mat er i al s.
2 MR. COUGHLI N: Not r ead t hembut br i ng t hem
3 up.
4 THE COURT: Okay, br i ng t hemup, put t hem
5 f ace down on t op of t he t abl e. I f t hey' r e admi t t ed
6 i nt o evi dence, you' l l be abl e t o t est i f y t o anyt hi ng
7 t hat ' s admi t t ed i nt o evi dence.
9 MR. YOUNG: And I may have mi ssed i t , was Mr .
10 Coughl i n j ust swor n as a wi t ness?
11 THE COURT: Yes, he was.
12 MR. YOUNG: Okay. Thank you.
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' msor r y, your Honor , woul d
14 i t be possi bl e f or me t o r un out and get a si p of
15 wat er , I ' ve j ust ki nd of been t al ki ng a l ot ?
16 THE COURT: Si r , we' l l get you some wat er .
17 J ust come up her e.
18 Al l r i ght . Go ahead, si r .
19 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay, i t ' s a l i t t l e awkwar d,
20 i t ' s my case i n chi ef - -
21 THE COURT: You don' t have t o ask your sel f .
22 You can speak i n nar r at i ve t er ms but i t has t o be
23 ger mane, as I sai d, and r el evant and f ur t her , i t has
24 t o be non- obj ect i onabl e.
Page 258
1 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , and I appr eci at e you
2 al l owi ng me t o t est i f y i n t he nar r at i ve. At my Bar
3 hear i ng, t hey i nsi st ed I do i t i n a ki nd of an awkwar d
4 quest i on and answer f or mat wi t h mysel f .
5 My r ecol l ect i ons of t hat ni ght ar e t hat I
6 don' t bel i eve t her e was a possi bl e f i ght goi ng on. I
7 di dn' t do anyt hi ng vi ol ent t owar ds anyone. I n f act ,
8 i f I ' mabl e t o, I ' d l i ke t o pl ay some vi deos t hat
9 demonst r at e t hat I t r i ed t o make t he best out of a
10 somewhat bad si t uat i on and one t hat I ' mnot pr oud of
11 ever yt hi ng I di d t hat ni ght or ki nd of wher e I was i n
12 my l i f e or what I di d t o get t her e but nobody di ed,
13 you know. Somebody di d di e t wo mont hs pr evi ousl y, a
14 t r agedy wi t h St even Gi l l over a pur se and I r ef er enced
15 t hat at t he t i me.
16 I gat her t hi s cour t has some pr obabl y
17 l egi t i mat e f r ust r at i on wi t h me and some of t he t hi ngs
18 t hat have gone on t hi s year and t he ext ent t o whi ch I
19 have not r epr esent ed t he Bar appr opr i at el y especi al l y
20 - -
21 THE COURT: Si r , I can assur e you t hat I ' m
22 deci di ng t hi s case j ust on t he f act s of t hi s case so
23 not anyt hi ng el se.
24 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , and I ' mget t i ng t o
Page 259
1 t hat . I ' mget t i ng t o whet her or not I had f el oni ous
2 i nt ent whi ch I bel i eve mi ght be amongst my st r ongest
3 ar gument s of f el oni ous i nt ent at t he t i me of t he
4 r el evant event s i n quest i on.
5 I woul d l i ke t o get t hi s ECOM, i t ' s shor t ,
6 your Honor , i t ' s pr obabl y onl y t hr ee mi nut es l ong and
7 i t ' s j ust l i t t l e cl i ps of al l t he communi cat i on, i t ' s
8 ki nd of i nt er est i ng of al l t he communi cat i on bet ween
9 t he di spat cher s - -
10 THE COURT: Any obj ect i on t o t he ECOM t ape?
11 MR. YOUNG: He can' t aut hent i cat e i t .
12 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' mgoi ng t o al l ow i t
13 because I di d or der t hat i t be pr oduced. The Ci t y
14 At t or ney was her e i ndi cat i ng t hat he was goi ng t o
15 f ur ni sh i t .
16 MR. YOUNG: And t o be cl ear , t hi s i s ECOM
17 conver sat i ons f or t he ni ght i n quest i on?
18 THE COURT: J ust t he ni ght i n quest i on,
19 t hat ' s t he onl y t hi ng I ' mal l owi ng, si r ; do you
20 under st and t hat ?
21 MR. COUGHLI N: Yes, si r , and t o t he ext ent
22 t her e' s a - - what does i t mat t er someone mi ght - - Mr .
23 Young mi ght say " Wel l , you al r eady r ul ed on t he
24 suppr essi on mat t er , " I submi t t hat - -
Page 260
1 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , ar gument at i ve. He' s
2 t est i f yi ng. Thi s i s f or t est i mony.
3 THE COURT: You' r e t est i f yi ng r i ght now, not
4 ar gui ng.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mf unct i oni ng i n a dual r ol e
6 r i ght now.
7 THE COURT: No but no one i s obj ect i ng t o i t .
8 I sai d i t woul d be admi t t ed so you don' t have t o
9 ar gue.
11 THE COURT: Unl ess i t ' s deal i ng wi t h a
12 di f f er ent ni ght or a di f f er ent i nci dent .
13 MR. COUGHLI N: J ust t o t he ext ent t hat I need
14 t o ci t e t o you and I bel i eve t hi s wher e i t was t hat
15 you i ndi cat ed t hat t he suppr essi on mot i on, t he door
16 was not cl osed - -
17 THE COURT: I don' t want t o get i nt o t hat . I
18 want you t o pl ay t he t ape.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: But t hat ' s wher e t hi s t ape i s
20 r el evant , si r .
21 THE COURT: I ' ve al r eady al l owed i t . You
22 don' t have t o ar gue about r el evance, al l r i ght ?
23 MR. COUGHLI N: But i f I won on t he
24 suppr essi on mot i on, i t mi ght af f ect how I pr oceed on
Page 261
1 t he wr i t .
2 THE COURT: You can ar gue at t he concl usi on
3 of t he case. You won on hal f t he suppr essi on mot i ons,
4 si r . You can ar gue at t he concl usi on of t he case as
5 t o whet her you' r e gui l t y or i nnocent or not gui l t y,
6 I ' msor r y.
7 I ' mnot goi ng t o ar gue wi t h you. Pl ay i t i f
8 you want i t . I f not , your t i me i s r unni ng out because
9 I ' mnot goi ng t o wast e t i me.
10 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , has t hi s been mar ked?
11 THE COURT: Let ' s have i t mar ked. So whi l e
12 you' r e t r yi ng t o get i t mar ked, you can t est i f y t o
13 somet hi ng el se because we' r e j ust - -
15 I saw and hear d f r omwher e I came up t he ki nd
16 of cor r i dor al ong t he r i ver f r omt hat movi e t heat er on
17 Fi r st and I bel i eve i t ' s Cent er St r eet , no f i r st and
18 Si er r a down t her e wher e t hat movi e t heat er i s on t he
19 r i ver . I was down t her e by t hat ki nd of pl aza by t he
20 br i dge t hat woul d head over t o Wi ngf i el d par k at
21 appr oxi mat el y 11: 10 t hat ni ght , t hat was August 20t h.
22 I j ust had a f our and a hal f year
23 r el at i onshi p end i n J une of t hat year and i t woul d be
24 upset t i ng t o anyone and i t ended a coupl e of days
Page 262
1 af t er she f i nal l y gr aduat ed f r omcol l ege. Then I
2 subsequent l y f ound out i n August whi ch you mi ght
3 r ecal l because you sat on t he evi ct i on mat t er t hat - -
4 and maybe you can t ake j udi ci al not i ce of t hi s because
5 t he l andl or d t est i f i ed t o i t t hat she had f ai l ed t o
6 f or war d - - gi ve her my shar e of t he r ent each mont h.
7 THE COURT: I don' t know how t hat ' s r el evant
8 t o t oday but Mr . Young i s not obj ect i ng so - -
9 MR. COUGHLI N: I can j ust i ndi cat e I wi l l
10 i mmedi at el y expl ai n how i t ' s r el evant t o t he ext ent
11 t hat t hat sudden f i nanci al upheaval r esul t ed i n me not
12 bei ng abl e t o af f or d my medi cat i ons. I ' mpr obabl y
13 ki nd of not bei ng t hat r eal i st i c at t hi s poi nt , t o t he
14 ext ent I t hi nk I st i l l have some pr i vacy i n t hat
15 r egar d but t o what ever ext ent t he r ecor d coul d
16 l at er - -
17 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , we of f er ed you Ment al
18 Heal t h Cour t i n t hi s case whi ch you decl i ned.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: No. I went over t her e - -
20 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , t hi s i s not
21 t est i mony.
22 MR. COUGHLI N: And I ' d r at her use t he t i me on
23 somet hi ng el se.
Page 263
1 MR. COUGHLI N: But I t hi nk i t goes t o i nt ent
2 or cl ai mor a def ense. I mean and so - -
3 THE COURT: Wel l , unf or t unat el y, si r , I ' ve
4 had you exami ned t wi ce wi t h r espect t o your
5 compet ency.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: I don' t t hi nk I ' mar gui ng
7 compet ency, I ' msor r y, si r . I don' t know i f t hat ' s
8 compet ency or i ncapaci t y or t hey' r e di f f er ent t hi ngs
9 but - -
10 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I woul d ask t hat Mr .
11 Coughl i n t est i f y t o f act s, t hat ' s what we' r e her e f or .
12 MR. COUGHLI N: Wel l , goi ng of f your
13 medi cat i on i s a f act .
14 MR. YOUNG: And I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect t o t hat .
15 MR. COUGHLI N: Not bei ng abl e t o af f or d your
16 medi cat i on i s a f act t hat I ' mt est i f yi ng t o. They' r e
17 psychoact i ve medi cat i ons, and I was j ust br i ef l y
18 aski ng t o t he ext ent i t ' s possi bl e t o t he ext ent i t ' s
19 not , I ' mnot goi ng t o not t est i f y t o i t but i f i t i s
20 possi bl e, t o somehow make an i n camer a l at er r emoved
21 f r omt he r ecor d what medi cat i ons I ' mgoi ng t o t est i f y
22 t o I woul d appr eci at e i t because t her e' s somewhat of a
23 pr ej udi ci al vi ew i n some segment s of our soci et y about
24 t hese medi cat i ons.
Page 264
1 I went of f bot h my medi cat i ons at t he st ar t
2 of August due t o r unni ng out of money and ki nd of an
3 emot i onal f al l out of about a f i ve- year r el at i onshi p
4 endi ng and t hen f i ndi ng out t hat she made of f wi t h
5 about t wo mont hs r ent . Now I ' mt hat f ar behi nd.
6 So somewher e I guess I i nappr opr i at el y sought
7 t o make i t up was i n my medi cat i ons and maybe goi ng on
8 a medi cat i on hol i day but r eal l y I t hi nk i t was mor e
9 due t o not havi ng t he money.
10 Qui ckl y, I ' l l j ust say I di d at t empt t o
11 mi t i gat e any negl i gence at t endant t o goi ng of f t hose
12 medi cat i ons by cal l i ng NNAMHS and i nqui r i ng as t o t he
13 avai l abi l i t y of sor t of an I F P f or medi cat i ons but
14 one of t he medi cat i ons i t ' s - - t hi s mi ght expl ai n some
15 t hi ngs wi t h r egar d t o some of t he f r ust r at i ons of
16 havi ng me bef or e you i n your cour t , si r i s t hat i t ' s a
17 medi cat i on f or At t ent i on Def i ci t Di sor der .
18 J ust qui ckl y I ' l l i ndi cat e some of t he
19 f r ust r at i ons I not i ced j udges have wi t h me i s an
20 i nabi l i t y t o do what you' r e supposed t o be doi ng when
21 you do i t and t hi ngs bl eed over and not ki nd of
22 col or i ng i n t he l i nes, and t hat ' s a hal l mar k of peopl e
23 wi t h ADD or ADHD and a l ot of peopl e don' t r eal i ze
24 some adul t s do have t hat .
Page 265
1 The ot her medi cat i on - - but qui ckl y, I ' l l
2 j ust say t he medi cat i on f or ADD was Ador al and t hat ' s
3 medi cat i on i f you go of f i t suddenl y, you can
4 exper i ence some emot i onal f al l out . I ' mnot suggest i ng
5 t hat made me st eal , and I ' mnot suggest i ng I st ol e
6 t hat ni ght , t hat ' s not my cont ent i on. My cont ent i on
7 i s t hat I ' mi nnocent and I di d not st eal .
8 Ear l i er when I was r ef er enci ng some of t he
9 behavi or t hat ni ght , some of t he behavi or t hat I ' mnot
10 t hat pr oud of was mor e t ouchi ng on j ust some of t he
11 at t i t udi nal st uf f , some of t he l ack of I guess r egar d
12 f or t he f eel i ngs of ot her s or t he di f f i cul t i es
13 at t endant t o bei ng a pol i ce of f i cer and t he danger
14 t hat ' s at t ached t o i t ever y ni ght doi ng t hat j ob and
15 j ust seei ng ot her peopl e' s vi ewpoi nt s. I t hi nk I was
16 i n a ver y sel f - cent er ed pl ace, i n l ar ge par t , due t o
17 goi ng t hr ough some f ai r l y si gni f i cant suf f er i ng bot h
18 at t endant t o what anybody woul d f eel i nci dent t o t he
19 end of a pr obabl y t he most si gni f i cant par amour t ype
20 r el at i onshi p I had had i n my l i f e.
21 Then t o add on t op of t hat , t he i ssues
22 at t endant t o goi ng of f t wo f ai r l y power f ul
23 psychot r opi c - - but t hey' r e psychol ogy medi cat i ons,
24 Wel l but r i n whi ch i s f or Maj or Depr essi ve Di sor der
Page 266
1 whi ch I have been di agnosed wi t h and t r eat ed wi t h f or
2 a l ong t i me by Dr . Rasul unt i l he di ed a coupl e of
3 year s ago and t hen cur r ent l y by Dr . Yosar and
4 t hat ' s - - I was t aki ng t hat - - I ' ve t aken t hat si nce I
5 was 17 pr i mar i l y f or Maj or Depr essi ve Di sor der and
6 somewhat of an of f - l abel use f or ki nd of a l ow- gr ade
7 obsessi ve compul si ve t ype t endenci es.
8 Then t he Ador al whi ch i s commonl y known as
9 amphet ami ne i s f or t he At t ent i on Def i ci t Di sor der but
10 i t ' s al so f or t r eat ment r esi st ant depr essi on and
11 t hat ' s an accept ed secondar y of f - l abel use. Not t o
12 get t oo f ar af i el d on t hat but I do t hi nk i t goes t o
13 - - I ' ve wat ched your Honor t hr oughout t hi s t r i al and I
14 haven' t not i ced a l ot of r egar d f or my act i ons t hat
15 ni ght f r omyou.
17 Thi s i s not t est i f yi ng - - he' s not t est i f yi ng t o
18 f act s.
19 THE COURT: Cor r ect . The obj ect i on wi l l be
20 sust ai ned.
21 MR. YOUNG: I ' ve l et i t go, but t hi s i s
22 get t i ng t oo f ar .
23 THE COURT: I can assur e you t hat I haven' t
24 made a det er mi nat i on as t o your act i on on t hat ni ght
Page 267
1 at t hi s poi nt . So go ahead and t est i f y t o t he f act s,
2 si r .
4 I ' l l not e t her e' s Di st r i ct At t or ney Young
5 st eer i ng i t back t o what ' s r el evant and t hat ' s what
6 peopl e wi t h ADD have t r oubl e doi ng i s col or i ng t he
7 l i nes and I appr eci at e hi mdoi ng t hat because I wi l l
8 st eer back t o t hat and go back t o t he mat er i al f act s
9 at i ssue.
10 Why I was goi ng i nt o t hat i s t hat
11 obj ect i onabl e, sel f cent er ed, r ude behavi or i s - - i t
12 mi ght not be admi r abl e but t hat doesn' t make i t havi ng
13 a f el oni ous i nt ent . Ther e' s a di f f er ence, and I don' t
14 bel i eve I had a f el oni ous i nt ent t hat ni ght .
15 MR. YOUNG: Obj ect i on, ar gument at i ve.
16 THE COURT: I agr ee t hat ' s ar gument at i ve.
17 You' l l be abl e t o ar gue when you' r e not t est i f yi ng.
18 MR. COUGHLI N: I t hought when I what was
19 l awyer , I was al ways t ol d t hat I was bei ng
20 ar gument at i ve.
21 THE COURT: Si r , you' r e ar gui ng i nst ead of
22 t est i f yi ng. So t el l us what happened t hat ni ght .
24 The onl y t hi ng i s t o t he ext ent I t hi nk t hi s
Page 268
1 i s pr obabl y a l osi ng appr oach f or me because t hi s
2 i sn' t what you guys want t o hear but f or t he r ecor d t o
3 t he ext ent t hat I began doi ng t hat , I wai ve t hat whi ch
4 you t ol d me I coul d do whi ch i s r evi si t t he
5 suppr essi on hear i ng, par t i cul ar l y t he pr obabl e cause
6 anal ysi s at t endant t o t hei r not bei ng a possi bl e f i ght
7 whi ch i s what D A Young and Of f i cer Dur al de base t hei r
8 whol e case on.
9 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I woul d obj ect . He' s
10 not t est i f yi ng t o f act s. Thi s i s hi s t i me - - I don' t
11 know what he doesn' t under st and. He passed t he Bar .
12 He' s t est i f i ed t hat he has - -
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I get i t now. Thi s i s f or
14 cl osi ng ar gument , r i ght ?
15 MR. YOUNG: I t ' s a ver y si mpl e concept . He
16 needs t o t est i f y t o f act ual - -
17 THE COURT: I t hi nk he under st ands.
18 MR. YOUNG: I don' t t hi nk he does.
19 THE COURT: Wel l , i f he cont i nues, he wi l l be
20 i n cont empt of cour t .
22 THE COURT: Si r , i t ' s your oppor t uni t y t o
23 t est i f y as t o f act s and I have yet and i t ' s been over
24 15, al most 20 mi nut es si nce you st ar t ed t est i f yi ng and
Page 269
1 i t was a l i t t l e af t er 4: 00 when we st ar t ed deci di ng
2 whet her or not you wer e goi ng t o t est i f y.
3 So now we' r e at 4: 35, I haven' t hear d you
4 t est i f y as t o anyt hi ng f act ual r el evant t o t he
5 i nci dent i n quest i on.
6 MR. COUGHLI N: Goi ng of f t he medi cat i ons i s
7 r el evant t o i nt ent .
8 THE COURT: Okay, maybe.
9 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. I see what you' r e
10 get t i ng at . You want t he r eal l y, r eal l y r el evant
11 el ement s of t he cr i me.
12 THE COURT: Wel l , you' ve ar gued t hemi n your
13 br i ef s and ever yt hi ng so - -
14 MR. COUGHLI N: And t he onl y r eason I ' mdoi ng
15 t hi s i s because I f eel l i ke I keep wai vi ng t hi ngs - -
16 THE COURT: Si r , i f you don' t f ocus on t he
17 f act s, I wi l l f i nd you i n cont empt , al l r i ght ? We
18 don' t need t o t al k about wai ver . You need t o t al k
19 about t he f act s.
20 MR. COUGHLI N: Okay. I di d not f act ual l y
21 eyewi t ness any f i ght or possi bl e f i ght t hat ni ght . I
22 per cei ved and f el t bei ng at t acked by a gr oup of
23 yout hf ul skat eboar der s. I wi t nessed mysel f bei ng
24 r at her doci l e and compl i ant wi t h t he of f i cer s i n my
Page 270
1 i nt er act i ons wi t h t hemwhi l e as pol i t el y as possi bl e,
2 asser t i ng at l east t he not i on t hat I mi ght have some
3 const i t ut i onal r i ght s t hat mi ght pr event t hemf r om
4 aski ng me or demandi ng an answer f r omme wi t h r egar d
5 t o ever yt hi ng t hey mi ght want t o know or sear chi ng
6 ever y par t of my per son t hat t hey mi ght f eel woul d be
7 usef ul i n car r yi ng out t hei r dut i es or achi evi ng t hei r
8 obj ect i ves, however honor abl e and however much soci et y
9 depends on t hose.
10 I woul d l i ke t o f act ual l y t est i f y t hat
11 Of f i cer Dur al de - - and I do not bel i eve he di d t hi s on
12 pur pose but he di d t ouch my peni s, i t was st ar t l i ng.
13 I had gai ned a l ot of wei ght i nci dent t o what I ' l l
14 cal l t he di vor ce, al t hough we wer e not mar r i ed. I was
15 i nhal i ng candy. Some peopl e ar ound t he cour t house
16 comment ed on when I dr opped about 40 pounds ear l i er
17 t hi s year , " Wow, you l ost a l ot of wei ght , " once I
18 ki nd of got over t he br eak up.
19 I nci dent t o gai ni ng al l t hat wei ght and my
20 somewhat i ndi gency or pover t y at t hat poi nt al most , I
21 wasn' t abl e t o go buy a new war dr obe. I cut not ches
22 i nt o my wai st band on some of my under wear t o
23 accommodat e my i ncr eased wai st l i ne, and I t hi nk t hat
24 r esul t ed i n whi l e Of f i cer Dur al de was f ol l owi ng pr oper
Page 271
1 pr ocedur e, he t est i f i ed as t o over l appi ng when doi ng a
2 Ter i pat down t r ai ni ng, I t hi nk i t r esul t ed i n hi s
3 hand and t hi s i s capt ur ed i n a pop on t he vi deo, hi s
4 hand goi ng al ong my wai st l i ne and wher e he t hought he
5 mi ght have mor e - -
6 THE COURT: Mr . Young, cor r ect me i f I ' m
7 wr ong, di d I not r ul e t hat t he pat down sear ch was - -
8 MR. YOUNG: You r ul ed t hat i nadmi ssi bl e and
9 t he St at e di d not get i nt o t hat i n i t s case and chi ef .
10 THE COURT: So i t was onl y t he sear ch
11 i nci dent t o t he ar r est , r i ght ?
12 MR. YOUNG: You excl uded, af t er t he mot i on t o
13 suppr ess, any r ef er ence t o t he pat down sear ch and
14 subsequent l y, when Of f i cer Dur al de t est i f i ed t o
15 cal l i ng t he phone and hear i ng i t vi br at e, you excl uded
16 al l evi dence of Of f i cer Dur al de t ouchi ng wi t h t he pal m
17 or back of hi s hand Mr . Coughl i n' s shor t pocket and
18 f eel i ng t he vi br at i on.
20 MR. YOUNG: So t hat has been excl uded. The
21 St at e di d not get i nt o t hat . Mr . Coughl i n i s now
22 get t i ng i nt o t hat on hi s own.
24 So si r , I t hi nk you' r e ar gui ng a dead hor se
Page 272
1 at t hi s poi nt . I al r eady r ul ed i n your f avor on t hat .
2 So t he quest i on i s whet her t her e was pr obabl e cause t o
3 ar r est you or not and t hat i s, so as f ar as I ' m
4 concer ned, al l t he evi dence pr esent ed t o dat e
5 subst ant i at es t hat but i f you have somet hi ng t hat I ' m
6 unawar e of t hat you wi sh t o t est i f y t o on t hat , you
7 may do so.
8 MR. COUGHLI N: I do, si r and l ar gel y as I
9 per cei ved i t t hr oughout t he f i r st - - Mr . Young' s case
10 i n chi ef was a l ar ge basi s f or t hat pr obabl e cause t o
11 conduct a sear ch i nci dent t her et o ar r est ed upon an
12 accusat i on of noncompl i ance or demeanor i ssues or l ack
13 of cooper at i on.
14 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , what i t was was t he
15 wi t nesses who wer e pr esent at t he t i me and who t ol d
16 t he of f i cer basi cal l y t hat you had st ol en t he phone.
17 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , can you once agai n
18 i nst r uct Mr . Coughl i n t o t est i f y t o f act s, pl ease?
19 THE COURT: Yes. I wi l l i nst r uct once agai n
20 t o t est i f y as t o f act s.
21 MR. COUGHLI N: I ' mt r yi ng t o t est i f y as t o
22 f act s r el evant t o whet her or not I was cooper at i ve or
23 scr eami ng about someone t ouchi ng my peni s.
24 THE COURT: Okay, si r , you wer e not char ged
Page 273
1 wi t h bei ng uncooper at i ve. You wer e char ged wi t h t hef t
2 of a cel l phone or possessi on of a st ol en cel l phone.
3 MR. COUGHLI N: Based on t he f r ui t f r oma
4 sear ch t hat was l ar gel y based on an accusat i on of
5 noncompl i ance or demeanor i ssues.
6 THE COURT: I t ot al l y di sagr ee and we' r e done
7 ar gui ng. So you need t o pr oceed.
8 MR. COUGHLI N: I under st and, si r , and i f I
9 coul d j ust f ai r ness i n t o Of f i cer Dur al de say I don' t
10 t hi nk he meant t o do t hat .
11 THE COURT: I don' t car e i f he meant t o do i t
12 or not . Go ahead.
13 MR. COUGHLI N: I do not f eel I was yel l i ng
14 about hi mt ouchi ng any par t of my body t hat was
15 i nappr opr i at e. I ment i oned i t , i t mi ght have been i n
16 a sl i ght l y l ouder voi ce t han nor mal , but I di d not
17 yel l t hat . I di d not yel l t hat i n some sor t of - - and
18 t hi s i s - - I ' mt est i f yi ng t o t hi s t o r ebut what I f eel
19 was set f or t h i n hi s t est i mony and pol i ce r epor t wher e
20 i t seems as t hough he at t empt ed t o l i nk t he yel l i ng
21 about t he i nappr opr i at e t ouchi ng wi t h t he get t i ng
22 cl ose t o wher e he f el t t he phone was. I bel i eve I
23 have evi dence and can t est i f y f act ual l y as t o t he
24 ext ent t hat you hear t he pop of t he wai st band when hi s
Page 274
1 hand sl i ps i nt o a pr i vat e ar ea - -
2 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , agai n, he' s not
3 t est i f yi ng t o f act s. He j ust sai d hi msel f , " I bel i eve
4 I coul d t est i f y t o. " Thi s i s hi s chance t o t est i f y.
5 So he shoul d t est i f y.
6 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , poi nt t aken.
7 Go ahead, si r , what ' s your t est i mony?
8 MR. COUGHLI N: That when hi s hands sl i pped
9 past my wai st band, t hat was a nat ur al l egi t i mat e
10 expr essi on of mi ne. I t mi ght have cont ai ned a bi t of
11 l ever agi ng i t , I ' l l say t hat , si r , but i t wasn' t
12 compl et el y manuf act ur ed - -
13 THE COURT: Si r , I ' mhavi ng a t ough t i me wi t h
14 t he r el evance of t hi s. I ' ve al r eady r ul ed i n your
15 f avor on t he Mot i on t o Suppr ess so f ar as i t went t o
16 t he pat down sear ch. So t he i ssue t he f act s t hat ar e
17 at i ssue. So f ar as I ' mconcer ned, i s whet her or not
18 you vi ol at ed t he st at ut e i n N R S.
19 MR. COUGHLI N: One of my cr i t i ci sms of t he
20 suppr essi on mot i on - -
22 MR. COUGHLI N: You can ar gue t hat - -
23 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , obj ect i on. He' s not
24 t est i f yi ng.
Page 275
1 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , we' r e done.
2 I ' mgoi ng t o have you t aken i nt o cust ody
3 unt i l t omor r ow mor ni ng and t hen we wi l l cont i nue wi t h
4 t hi s t r i al and by t hen, you wi l l t est i f y as t o f act s.
5 MR. COUGHLI N: Si r , coul d I have one l ast
6 chance t o do t hat , pl ease si r ?
7 THE COURT: No. Can you go t omor r ow at 9: 00,
8 Mr . Young?
9 MR. YOUNG: Tomor r ow mor ni ng?
10 THE COURT: Yeah.
11 MR. YOUNG: I ' l l have t o move some t hi ngs
12 ar ound, but I ' l l get i t done.
14 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , i f I may have some
15 i nput , i t depends on t he t i me. I ' ve been subpoenaed
16 t o a hear i ng I t hi nk at 10: 00 A. M. her e but I coul d
17 appear ear l i er .
18 MR. YOUNG: I woul d r equest 8: 30 i f t he cour t
19 - -
20 THE CLERK: He has a mot i on hear i ng t omor r ow
21 at 10: 30 wi t h J udge Cl i f t on.
23 We' l l do 8: 30 t omor r ow because t hat ' s when - -
24 can you l et t hemknow t o t r anspor t hi mher e at 8: 30?
Page 276
1 THE CLERK: Yes.
2 MR. YOUNG: I ' l l be her e at 8: 30, your Honor .
4 I don' t know what t o do. I ' ve gi ven hi mas
5 much t i me as we can and t hen we' l l go f r omt her e.
6 MR. LESLI E: I hope you under st and my
7 posi t i on on hi s pr oper t y. I j ust can' t - -
8 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' mgoi ng t o - - act ual l y, I
9 may O R hi mr i ght now but I need t o t hi nk about i t .
11 ( Wher eupon t he pr oceedi ngs wer e concl uded. )
12
13
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Page 277
1 STATE OF NEVADA )
2 ) Ss.
3 COUNTY OF WASHOE )
4
5
6 I , GAI L R. WI LLSEY, a not ar y publ i c i n and
7 f or t he Count y of Washoe, St at e of Nevada, do her eby
8 cer t i f y:
9 That I was pr ovi ded a J AVS CD and t hat sai d
10 CD was t r anscr i bed by me, a Cer t i f i ed Shor t hand
11 Repor t er , i n t he mat t er ent i t l ed her ei n;
12 That sai d t r anscr i pt whi ch appear s
13 her ei nbef or e was t aken i n st enot ype not es by me f r om
14 t he CD and t her eaf t er t r anscr i bed i nt o t ypewr i t i ng as
15 her ei n appear s t o t he best of my knowl edge, ski l l and
16 abi l i t y and i s a t r ue r ecor d t her eof .
17
18
19 ________________________
20 GAI L R. WI LLSEY, CSR #356
21
22
23
24
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catch 54:3
catching 38:24
category 186:6
caught 54:8
186:19,24
cause 25:14
27:2049:2,16
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272:2,10
caused 150:13
159:5
CD94:24277:9
277:10,14
CD's 92:1895:3
cease 46:20
cell 19:2344:11
44:14,15,17
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94:9124:7
128:11,18
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155:6169:9
171:11182:4
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cement 156:23
center 137:18
140:7,11
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centered 267:11
certain 57:11
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certainly 7:3
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certificate 14:13
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certification
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certified 132:15
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certify 245:11
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chain 38:23
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186:24,24
challenge 59:12
challenging
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chance 54:13
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chances 55:13
change 103:4,7
103:7,10
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changed 9:9
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changing
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characterizati...
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characterize
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characterized
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charge 60:18
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charged 113:1
178:9272:24
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charges 60:22
charitable
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check 29:9,11
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172:5,6175:18
177:13239:13
checking 164:4
chief 14:748:18
131:6257:20
271:9272:10
choked 186:18
choking 186:11
chooses 250:13
chose 44:12
chosen 32:21
cigarettes
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circle 85:20
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circled 56:19
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circles 171:8
circumstances
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citation 235:10
cite 260:14
cited 69:19
citizens 249:18
City 7:4153:20
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259:13
claim22:19
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claimed 221:1
231:5
clarification
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clarify 29:18
59:2269:11
90:1094:24
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clarifying 194:8
225:23
clear 73:286:9
116:12123:5
128:13,13,14
128:16187:18
188:15192:17
194:12195:22
199:8204:1
259:16
clearer 183:23
clearly 19:15
207:1211:23
clear-cut 76:19
CLERK103:4
115:11136:15
136:22201:7
201:11,17
234:19275:20
276:1
client 204:4
251:4,6
clients 202:10
Clifton 275:21
clips 259:7
close 45:2061:5
125:11231:10
273:22
closed 16:5
260:16
closely 83:22
closer 38:20
121:5149:20
149:21229:19
230:1
closing 268:14
coach 36:5
coaching 50:17
53:5
code 82:18,19
163:11,12
169:15195:20
coercing 255:3
coincides
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college 67:15
262:1
color 114:19
136:11
coloring 264:22
267:6
colors 62:11
Colton 3:76:5
66:21130:9
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come 7:1722:6
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commentary
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commented
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commenting
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commonly
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communicate
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communicated
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communicating
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communication
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communicatio...
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community
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comparing
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competency
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complaint 60:22
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complete 254:10
completed 30:4
completely 48:6
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complex 220:10
compliant
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complicated
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complied
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comply 194:23
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complying
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compulsive
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computer 45:3
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conceding 71:9
concept 268:15
concerned
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conclude 71:15
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concluded 227:9
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conclusion 71:7
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conclusive 74:2
concrete 230:9
condition 207:6
conduct 217:9
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conducted
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confined 218:6
confirmed
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conflict 19:9,10
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confront 98:12
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confronted
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confused 59:3
confusing 183:9
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connected 45:8
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connection 20:4
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conscious
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consequence
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consequences
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consider 5:1
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considering
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consist 98:18
consisted 40:16
consistent
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constantly
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constitutional
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consult 242:6
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consulted
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contact 163:12
contacts 163:13
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contain 18:13
contained
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contains 125:17
contemporan...
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contempt 14:15
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content 60:3
contention
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context 136:11
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continuance
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28:14,20,21
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continuances
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continue 28:17
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continues 59:19
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continuing
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continuously
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contradicted
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contradicting
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contradictory
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contradicts
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contrary 97:11
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converge 57:3
conversation
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conversations
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convict 255:13
convicted 217:1
conviction
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cool 194:15
cooperation
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cooperative
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272:22
cop 163:7
copies 102:24
234:15
cops 65:18
76:1485:9
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copy 8:4,9,10
9:1915:116:8
16:1140:19
cork 64:5
140:18
correct 6:15
7:2474:17,18
83:1139:9
146:19242:9
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correctly 30:22
96:23
correlation
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corridor 261:16
Cory 3:848:5
49:850:3
58:20,2462:10
62:15,2164:18
64:2365:18,19
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82:12,16,17,17
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155:6,13,14,22
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Cory's 141:3
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35:1,536:12
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90:6,10,15,18
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91:11,16,22
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93:5,10,12,14
93:18,2294:7
94:11,16,20,23
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97:1,9,13,24
98:7,14,18,23
99:2,3,12,14
100:5,15,17,18
101:3,10,14,24
102:7,13103:9
103:22104:6
104:13105:18
106:4,6,12,16
106:21107:5
107:12,17,24
108:7,15,18,23
109:1,4,11,18
109:21110:3,8
110:11,16,22
111:2,7,11,16
111:22112:5,9
112:12,17
113:4,8,10,14
113:23114:3,5
114:6,16115:1
115:4,6,7,10
115:12,16,22
116:9,17,23
117:5,14,15,20
117:24118:4,9
118:10,16,21
119:4,12,21,24
120:7,11,15,19
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121:13,16,23
122:1,8,11,18
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123:12,20
124:4,12,13,20
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125:7,11,15,21
126:3,5,8,12
126:16,22
127:2,6,11,14
127:15128:1,5
128:14,19,22
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130:12,17,21
131:7,19,20
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148:1,8,16
149:9151:9,11
151:15,16
153:4,8,15
154:8,9,20
155:3,10160:4
160:9,11
161:13,14
164:20,21
166:10,12,20
166:22167:5
167:11,14,15
168:20,24
169:3,6,11
170:7,11173:4
173:11,19,22
174:2175:4,15
176:16,23
178:1,4,12,13
179:14180:9
180:11181:10
181:16,17
182:17,24
183:3,9,13,18
183:22,24
184:6,7,10,12
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193:16194:1,4
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199:15,18,24
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206:14,15
207:1,2,5,11
208:4,11,15,21
209:3,13,17,23
210:9,24211:4
211:6,15,20
212:7,15,18,22
213:1,6,13,17
214:3,16215:3
215:19216:3,7
216:11,16,21
217:2,6,18,22
218:3,6,14,16
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220:9,15,20,21
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222:10,24
223:16,20,22
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225:2,8,17
226:1,8,12,18
227:3,6,12,13
227:20,24
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Coughlin's
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counsel 201:20
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count 215:14,15
counter 205:16
countered 215:7
counts 113:3
County 1:5
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277:3,7
couple 44:291:8
119:13,15
127:10158:15
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197:2,3203:5
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course 249:23
court 1:34:5,23
5:7,10,17,20
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6:197:6,16,21
7:238:1,3,6,13
8:21,239:2,8
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50:2452:8,9
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55:1557:22
58:359:9,21
60:8,14,24
61:3,863:1
64:1,766:14
67:2368:8,11
68:14,2469:17
69:2270:2,5,8
70:13,2271:13
71:1572:12,15
72:2473:8
75:976:3,20
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77:17,2278:3
78:16,19,24
79:280:15,23
82:283:19
84:3,11,15,21
85:386:8,12
87:9,15,19
88:3,8,12,21
89:2,10,16,20
89:2290:5,8
90:13,17,20
91:1,4,10,14
91:2092:8,15
92:16,18,24
93:5,9,11,13
93:15,21,23
94:8,14,17,21
94:2495:2,6,8
95:10,16,20
96:1,7,8,17
97:6,11,17
98:4,10,16,20
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100:16101:1,4
101:12,15,19
102:3,9,14,19
102:23103:6
103:10,14
104:1,10,16,19
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105:11,15,20
106:9,15,20
107:3,11,15,20
108:3,13,16
109:3,9,14,17
109:19110:2
110:14,20,24
111:4,10,13,19
112:2,7,11,14
112:22113:6,9
113:12,19,24
114:4,11,13,23
115:3,9,14,18
116:6,10,14,19
117:3,13,21
118:2,6,14,18
118:22119:1,9
119:14,18,23
120:5,9,13,17
120:20121:3,8
121:17122:4,7
122:10,15,19
122:21123:3,7
123:19,23
124:6,16,21
125:5,9,13,24
126:4,7,14,20
126:23127:3,8
127:13,23
128:3,10,16,20
128:23129:3,8
129:12,17,20
130:5,10,13,18
130:20,22
131:9,13,18,22
132:1,6,14,17
132:23133:2
134:4,8,10,15
134:17,21
135:3,5,6
136:9,13,21,24
137:6,13,19
139:3,23140:2
140:19141:14
141:18,23
142:3,17143:3
143:18,21,24
144:3,7,10,12
144:19,21
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149:7151:13
153:4,14154:6
154:18,24
160:8,10
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166:5,9,11,14
166:21,23
167:2,10,12
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175:2,6,12
176:12,18,22
178:2,8179:5
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183:12,15,18
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226:2,7,11,14
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238:11,20
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241:2,4,7,15
241:21,23
242:4,16,24
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245:16,19,24
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247:6,10,22
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251:17,22
252:1,5,8,13
252:19,24
253:3,11,14,17
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254:14,19,21
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255:17,20
256:1,9,11,19
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257:11,16,21
258:16,21
259:10,12,18
260:3,7,11,17
260:21261:2
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262:17,18,24
263:3264:16
266:19,23
267:16,21
268:17,19,20
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Looks 229:3
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Lucy 5:11,13
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lunch 132:22
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married 270:14
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material 8:15
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McQueen 67:11
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mind 60:6,8
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mistaken 24:22
mistrial 4:8
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misunderstood
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mitigate 264:11
mix 167:12
mobile 174:17
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MONDAY4:2
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month 218:4
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months 86:20
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morality 219:13
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morals 218:18
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morning 13:20
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motion 7:9,12
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motive 212:2
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mouth 98:21
move 9:1125:4
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multiple 145:22
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multitude 44:1
Muni 20:6
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names 65:12
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narrative
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narrowly 218:6
Nash 12:24
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Nate 66:22
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Nathan 150:18
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needs 22:22
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negligence
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235:24
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51:7,1955:19
56:7,1663:12
65:1767:4,5,8
68:571:2,19
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107:9,22
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northerly 140:7
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105:2116:5
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115:6126:10
260:7262:8
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34:6,20,21
36:1240:23,23
41:1,2,11,13
41:2242:1,24
43:344:7,8
45:5,1648:8
49:20,2259:6
59:1662:23
66:7,1567:21
68:872:11,12
73:2,975:8,10
75:2276:3,18
78:2,13,20
80:13,2282:3
84:10,1686:6
89:2492:3
102:6105:16
105:20106:10
108:3,11109:2
110:6,12,24
114:1,9,22
116:2117:2,13
117:19118:3,8
119:19121:18
123:6,23124:1
126:8136:10
136:19,19
141:13142:19
143:12151:8
151:10,14
160:6168:18
170:5172:21
173:17,20
177:23178:2
181:9182:13
184:4,22185:3
185:17187:24
201:21205:12
207:9208:19
209:2,11,15
212:5214:10
216:13217:12
217:17218:21
220:3221:13
230:21246:22
259:10266:16
266:19267:15
274:21,23
objectionable
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objections 4:7
92:21109:5,7
objectives 270:8
observe 178:3
observed 83:22
observing 83:21
obsessive 266:7
obvious 62:13
155:20162:6
162:16
obviously 92:21
245:6
occur 173:15,16
occurred 69:2,4
173:12195:1
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26:24210:10
235:12254:4
offended 52:20
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offense 107:2
offer 12:22
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68:1387:22
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107:1110:4
205:16207:3
210:6211:7
223:9,10
230:20231:2
244:15247:2
247:10
offered 6:829:2
29:344:9
75:12116:15
141:16172:23
177:17,21
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208:13215:4
226:20230:19
262:17
offering 87:1,17
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office 14:20
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officer 13:18
21:19,2125:7
25:749:282:6
82:9,16,20,24
83:990:7
120:2128:17
164:1,15,23
165:5,6,14,19
189:22190:10
190:14,22
191:7,13
195:13,24
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officer's 248:19
off-label 266:6
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35:936:8
37:2038:7,22
39:1740:22
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46:1947:20
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51:652:4
54:18,2355:19
56:8,13,21
58:2159:3,11
60:561:21
62:1,12,14
63:7,1965:15
65:2367:17
71:1774:12
75:579:18
81:1382:5
83:884:586:3
86:11,2290:18
91:693:18
94:798:23
99:2,12100:6
100:11,23
102:13104:1
106:9,13107:3
107:11109:19
111:2,17
113:24114:3
115:1117:9
119:3,4120:5
122:10,21,23
123:4,7,23
124:23126:4
126:20,22
127:3,8,14
128:1,20,22
129:1130:10
130:13134:4
135:19136:5
138:15,17,23
139:12140:13
140:16,21
141:5,15,22
142:1,20143:1
143:4,16,18,21
144:17145:7
145:12,16
146:1,9,15,24
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149:13150:10
150:24151:22
152:15153:16
153:23154:2
154:14,20
155:11,19
156:3,13157:5
157:6,23
158:11159:2
160:13162:8
162:20163:4
163:14164:11
164:17165:4
165:18166:1,5
167:2,11168:2
168:6170:12
170:16,19,22
171:2,18,22
172:17173:14
174:6,22
175:16177:10
177:19178:24
179:12,15
181:1,11,24
182:9183:7
185:6,13186:2
186:23187:7
187:12188:18
188:24189:7
189:12191:9
191:16192:13
192:15193:3,9
193:14195:12
196:11197:16
197:20198:2
199:3,11,18,24
200:16,20
203:14204:9
204:12208:11
208:16209:3
213:9214:20
218:7220:7
222:4,20223:8
226:1228:18
229:15,20
230:3,7231:16
233:7236:7
237:2,4239:1
241:14244:14
246:24247:7
254:21255:20
256:7257:4,12
257:19269:8,9
269:20272:24
old 34:3,5,9,14
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139:15140:9
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189:17,20
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159:12165:19
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225:22256:13
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23:2,624:23
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37:1938:1,3
140:2147:8
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one's 240:15
one-man 245:23
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open 21:1,2
opened 36:14
opening 174:20
open-ended
138:24
operator 193:23
opportunities
72:20
opportunity
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129:21187:5
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oppose 28:20
31:9,2332:17
opposed 31:11
order 8:14
12:1414:23
15:1,2,6,12
16:9,1118:10
18:12,1922:3
23:10,1225:14
45:2290:24
103:18201:16
201:20210:21
236:2,12
238:13239:2
259:13
ordered 4:24
91:5
ordering 132:7
132:8
orders 16:15
ordinary 20:1,3
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original 25:11
originally 103:8
outright 6:18
outside 18:11
31:189:3
90:11101:8
134:12
overbroad
107:9
overlapping
271:1
overly 194:21
overrule 75:9
206:9207:9
overruled 170:4
overview136:7
owns 116:15
o'clock 24:17
246:15
P
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pace 246:10
packet 132:13
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painted 62:10
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pant 136:2
160:20,22
paramour
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park 146:17
152:19174:14
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parked 174:14
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parking 140:5,9
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part 20:927:19
37:2350:11
51:1654:3
64:2265:4
102:23104:11
111:7122:3
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215:6221:14
229:1,3,16
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parte 98:1
particular
149:15153:2
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particularly
69:21248:17
248:19268:5
parts 63:12
123:9
party 119:11
213:24
pass 65:16,24
82:18,19
163:11,11
195:20
passage 224:1
passed 91:12
268:11
paste 40:20
pat 27:20165:6
165:11249:5,6
249:24250:1
271:2,7,13
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patting 164:1,3
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pauperis 236:9
236:15,17,19
pause 121:15,16
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pay 4:206:17
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237:8,11,14
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payment 29:21
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peculiar 91:24
peddling 180:17
penalty 6:12
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pending 11:5
penis 164:8
178:21270:12
272:23
people 12:6
14:2216:15
37:1939:9,23
43:12,1753:5
57:464:3
66:20,20,23
75:17106:8
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141:8145:20
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148:10,17
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159:4,6162:19
163:13170:19
177:21181:4
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239:11,14
249:10256:17
264:22,23
267:6270:15
people's 265:15
perceive 157:9
perceived 84:19
117:20162:23
269:22272:9
percent 70:7
226:22230:15
percipient 7:19
48:2088:18
91:9142:21
153:11209:18
217:23
perjuring 54:9
perjury 6:12
52:10,1953:9
53:1354:1,2,8
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perjury's 6:16
permanently
113:4,10,12
persistent 76:13
person 29:8
58:20116:6
148:2162:13
179:9183:2
184:7198:15
198:16199:9
199:16214:12
214:15220:7
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personal 7:20
44:1063:3
66:1084:14
120:13178:11
202:10215:14
218:9230:22
238:18248:1
personally
11:13149:4
221:3,8,11
222:6,12223:3
224:9,13225:4
225:6,20226:4
person's 124:14
petty 60:18
philosopher
220:18
philosophy
220:13,16
phone 19:23
29:639:8,11
39:15,1640:2
40:4,5,742:8
42:1243:2,22
44:11,14,15,17
48:3,5,749:3,6
49:7,8,1250:3
50:6,1352:3
56:258:14,17
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132:4134:5,8
134:14,20,24
142:18143:20
143:22144:2,5
144:9,11,24
148:6155:6
167:1173:1,5
176:14,20
179:7,8,11
184:5,24188:4
188:12194:10
198:6200:24
201:1,5,7,13
204:9,19,22
206:10208:2
210:13212:11
216:14217:23
221:3,11
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225:20226:5
227:5229:12
232:7233:22
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236:11,21,24
237:19,19
239:7,12
245:10,13,22
246:1247:9,15
248:2254:5,6
255:19256:4
257:10
witnessed
117:16147:14
149:4177:10
177:11217:8
221:5222:12
225:6229:8
233:2234:1
269:23
witnesses 4:12
13:13,15,16
14:516:17
25:430:531:7
39:946:8,11
86:2487:5,8
87:2497:21,22
125:9130:6
215:6235:8
237:8240:18
240:19,22
247:17251:13
253:2272:15
witnesses's
77:12107:13
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won 260:23
261:3
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148:1216:21
word 71:13
106:4249:22
words 98:20
105:6223:12
work 137:21
201:14204:4
235:19
working 248:20
world 78:12
Page 315
worried 75:16
175:20
worth 127:7
189:20,23
190:2
worthy 7:12
wouldn't 50:11
51:1856:22
57:1766:2
76:1280:5
85:9,1395:14
182:6233:17
238:12,12,17
244:11253:19
wound 151:19
151:20
wow195:2
270:17
wrecked 125:8
128:9
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writ 261:1
write 103:2,15
writing 103:4,7
wrong 87:15
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271:7
wrongful 215:8
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226:10,15
wrote 103:8
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yanked 186:18
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122:8123:19
126:10132:23
135:17137:6
147:8149:12
152:7,8157:22
160:3164:4
172:16179:11
183:3191:8
193:12194:15
201:9206:1
223:22237:12
241:7275:10
year 20:1,24
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53:2056:11
65:667:15
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213:3224:17
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years 34:367:19
139:15230:16
266:3
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yelling 164:8,12
165:14273:13
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yields 220:10
Yosar 266:3
young 2:93:9
8:4,8,119:11
9:1813:2,8,9
14:4,19,20
16:2117:22
18:722:7,8,15
22:2125:24
26:327:2,10
27:2128:11,16
30:11,2131:9
31:20,2332:17
33:2434:20,22
40:9,1842:13
43:3,5,1844:7
45:5,14,18
46:5,14,20
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54:12,2155:1
55:857:20
58:259:6,16
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66:767:21
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75:2276:1,18
78:2,13,18
80:13,2281:19
82:183:17,20
83:2184:6,10
84:1286:6
87:3,11,16,21
87:2388:7
89:7,23,24
91:2392:12,20
93:3,1995:3
97:499:7,18
100:16101:17
101:22102:1,5
102:17103:12
103:22104:8
104:14,18,20
104:22105:1,5
105:13106:2
106:23107:8
108:5,10,20,23
109:2,6,7
110:5,18112:1
113:21114:9
114:12,22
115:5116:2,8
116:12117:2
117:19,23
118:8,12,24
119:6,17120:3
121:1,6,15,18
122:5,13,16,23
123:1,4,16,22
124:8,24
125:20,22
126:10127:21
129:16,19
130:3131:4,12
132:9,21135:1
135:4136:10
136:17141:13
142:9,23143:8
151:8,10
157:14160:6
166:8168:18
168:21169:16
170:9172:21
173:17175:10
177:23181:6
182:13184:4,8
184:22185:2
185:17187:24
193:24194:2
197:23198:7
198:13199:15
202:16,17
204:15205:12
206:6,21
207:24208:4
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217:12218:1,4
218:12220:3
221:13229:3
230:21,24
233:18234:11
234:17235:2,3
239:20240:10
240:11241:18
241:24245:9
247:8,13249:4
249:16,21
250:8251:9
252:18253:6
254:8,17255:2
255:7,10
256:10257:9
257:12259:11
259:16,23
260:1261:10
262:8,20
263:10,14
266:16,21
267:4,15268:7
268:9,15,18,21
271:6,8,12,20
272:17274:2
274:21,23
275:8,9,11,18
276:2,10
younger 35:6
Young's 48:17
48:22272:9
youthful 269:23
youths 80:19
110:17113:18
YouTube 44:23
45:165:8,12
135:17
Z
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204:22,23
205:2,5206:16
208:23209:3
211:10,20,23
218:17223:11
224:6,8228:4
228:19235:7
zone 84:2
$
$300 76:17
189:24
$50 189:20,23
$80 189:23
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11:25 100:20
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230:15
11:41 15:8
11:42 15:8
12 124:10
12:00 102:15
12:02 129:19
13-year 86:5
189:4
135 3:7
14th 24:18,19
15 218:7,10,11
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15th 24:20
16 142:4
16th 15:8,8
167 3:9
17 51:867:20
99:5128:4
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174.345 132:16
178.405 18:8
18 34:16,1735:6
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139:16140:15
19 1:174:2
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198 3:9
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2nd 3:7
20 34:1457:2
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108:7173:9
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20th 107:10
215:16261:21
200 3:10
2011 34:1499:5
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2011-001708
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2012 1:174:2
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2013 134:2
205 3:11
22ish 139:15
22nd 11:1
210:10235:12
254:4
24 67:19
24-hour 18:11
25 149:20
27th 18:8
3
3 3:15104:2,5
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3rd 3:826:24
3:00 201:18
30 97:22115:20
33 3:6
4
4th 3:11
4:00 269:1
4:35 269:3
40 97:22270:16
48-minute
210:11235:11
5
5 136:22,23
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5-minute 200:23
5:00 24:17
246:15
6
6 137:15167:17
228:10,15
7
7 8:12140:7
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7th 8:911:2
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9th 70:10
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91:8,10,14
93:10108:2
115:1,8118:5
121:11123:10
128:6174:11
189:11192:19
192:22193:23
248:6249:1,18
250:5

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