Jason Treas Testimony Nov 4, 2010 USA Eastern District

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ---o0o--BEFORE THE HONORABLE WILLIAM B.
SHUBB, JUDGE ---o0o--UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff, vs. LARRY SIXTO AMARO, GERARDO LOPEZ MORA, ERNEST PAUL KILLINGER, and JASON MICHAEL STEWART HANSON, Defendants. / No. CR. S-07-248
---o0o--REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS JURY TRIAL TESTIMONY OF JASON TREAS VOLUME 1 THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 4, 2010 ---o0o---
Reported by:
KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, CSR #8953
KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 For the Plaintiff:
APPEARANCES
BENJAMIN B. WAGNER United States Attorney 501 I Street, Suite 10-100 Sacramento, California 95814 BY: WILLIAM S. WONG JASON HITT Assistant U.S. Attorneys Also Present: ROSEMARY SHAUL JOHN HAYES LARITZA DIAZGONSEN
For Defendant Larry Sixto Amaro: 13 14 15 16 For Defendant Gerardo Lopez Mora: 17 18 19 20 For Defendant Ernest Paul Killinger: 21 22 23 24 25 (Continued next page...) LAW OFFICE OF MICHAEL B. BIGELOW 428 J Street, Suite 350 Sacramento, California 95814 BY: MICHAEL B. BIGELOW LAW OFFICE OF HAYES H. GABLE, III 428 J Street, Suite 354 Sacramento, California 95814 BY: HAYES H. GABLE, III LAW OFFICE OF PETER KMETO 1007 7th Street, Suite 100 Sacramento, California 95814 BY: PETER KMETO
1 2
APPEARANCES (Continued)
For Defendant Jason Michael Stewart Hanson: 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LAW OFFICES OF SCOTT L. TEDMON 1050 Fulton Avenue, Suite 218 Sacramento, California 95825 BY: SCOTT L. TEDMON Also Present: LARRY SIXTO AMARO, Defendant GERARDO LOPEZ MORA, Defendant ERNEST PAUL KILLINGER, Defendant JASON MICHAEL STEWART HANSON, Defendant SABRINA PANTALEONI
1 2 GOVERNMENT WITNESSES: 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TREAS, JASON
INDEX PAGE:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HITT
1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. HITT: Q. A. Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Treas. Good afternoon. If you could do me a favor, pull that microphone close THE COURT: you need a break? MR. HITT: THE COURT: MR. HITT: THE CLERK: We're ready, Your Honor. You may call your next witness. United States calls Jason Treas. Please step forward. Stand in front of Raise SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 4, 2010 ---oOo--Are you ready with your next witness or do
the court reporter right there and face me, please. your right hand, please. JASON TREAS,
a witness called by the Government, having been first duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as follows: THE WITNESS: THE CLERK: I do. Thank you. You may be seated. Please
state your full name, spell your last name for the record. THE WITNESS: Jason Lee Treas; T-R-E-A-S. DIRECT EXAMINATION
to your mouth, or sit a little closer, just to make sure we
2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. can hear you. A. Q. Thank you.
Is that better? Yes, much better. Mr. Treas, in what city were you born? In Richmond, California. And do you speak Spanish? Yes. How did you learn Spanish? Growing up with my family. I want to direct your attention to the middle of 2003;
did you meet a person known to you as Silk? A. Q. Yes. Between approximately 2003 and 2007 -- 2006, sorry,
did you engage in drug trafficking with the person you knew as Silk? A. Q. Yes, I did. I'm going to now display to you on the screen to your
right what's been received in evidence as Government's Exhibit 10. Do you recognize the person in Government's Exhibit 10? A. Q. A. Q. I do. Who is that? Marcos Silk Gomez. And Marco Gomez was the person you knew as Silk?
3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Yes, it is. That is the person depicted in Exhibit 10? Yes. And in the same time frame, approximately the middle
of 2003, did you meet a person known to you as G? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Do you know G's real name? Jorge Sandoval. Between approximately 2003 and 2006, did you engage in
drug trafficking with Jorge Sandoval aka G? A. Q. Yes, I did. Finally, did you meet a person, same time period,
middle of 2003, known to you as Shadow? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Do you know Shadow's real name? James Sanabria or James Mitchell. Did you engage in drug trafficking with Shadow in 2003
and 2004? A. Q. I did. And did you have a name other than your birth name,
Jason Treas, that you were known by to others? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. I was V, or Vill, sometimes Villain.
That was sort of your handle or your moniker? Yes, it was. Now, in the early part of 2004, did you begin to
4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 participate in meetings that -- where you discussed committing criminal acts? A. Q. I did. And who were the participants in these meetings that
you were engaged in? A. Me, Silk, Shadow, James, G and Basil from
San Francisco. Q. And where were the meetings held in this early time
period 2004? A. Various locations that Silk would set up to meet in
San Francisco. Q. A. Q. Within the city of San Francisco? Yes. And did you -- did the group have a name that you
called these particular meetings? A. Q. A. Q. Juntas. Is that a Spanish term for something? Yeah. It's kind of like a gathering. What was the purpose of
How did these juntas start?
these juntas that you were engaged in? A. The purpose of the junta was to organize resources and
manpower for the NF regiments in San Francisco and surrounding counties. Q. How frequent would you say the juntas were in this
early time period in 2004?
5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. At least once a week. And what sort of criminal activities did you discuss
in order to further the purpose of these juntas? A. Available resources for drug trafficking, and
robberies, and weapons, and whatever criminal activities that we could be involved in that would financially benefit the regiments. Q. During these juntas, were there precautions that the
group took in order to avoid law enforcement detection? A. Q. Yes. What sort of precautions did the group take during the
meetings? A. There was a lot of evasive driving and, you know,
calculation of where we're going to meet, secret locations, the turning off of cell phones and other electronic devices that could be tracked. We also had some devices that detected monitoring devices. Like, for instance, if the phone was tapped, or
there was a room that was tapped, we had electronic devices that would detect those signals being sent out. Q. And what were the -- and the purpose of these
precautions was, obviously, in case somebody was listening or trying to tap your phones? A. Q. Yes, to avoid law enforcement. Did these juntas become actual criminal acts that
6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. were -- that happened, drugs, drug trafficking, for example? A. Q. Yes. They led to a lot of activities.
And when you first got involved in drug trafficking
with the juntas, what type of drug were you able to obtain? A. We started off with marijuana. Eventually moved on to
methamphetamines, cocaine and pills, ecstasy and whatnot. Q. Those were all drugs that were distributed by you and
others in the Bay Area? A. Q. Yes, it was. And let's go, then, in 2004, and the late part of
2003, did you become acquainted with someone that you -known to you as Mister? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, I did. Do you know Mister's real name? No, I do not. Do you know Mister by any other nicknames? Bubba. Let's take a look at what's been received in evidence
as Government's Exhibit 6. Is that the person you knew as Bubba or Mister? Yes, it is. How did you become acquainted with Bubba or Mister? I was introduced to him via Silk and G as an NF, a
Carnon, or a C, from Salinas regiment that was there to aid and assist us in our development of regiment activities.
7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And when you described previously, now, the meetings,
the juntas that you were -- you were participating in, did you meet Bubba or Mister before the juntas started? A. Q. Yes, I did. And were -- after the meeting with Bubba, is that kind
of what prompted the juntas to begin? A. The juntas began before we met Mister. It was after
he became involved in the meetings that they felt more organized, more official, more authenticated with his presence, and he usually guided us in the meetings. Q. And at the time when you became acquainted with Mister
through the introduction that Silk provided, were you, yourself, an NF member? A. Q. A. Q. No, I was not. Have you ever elevated to the status of an NF Carnon? No, I have not. Were any of the other members in the group, other than
Mister or Bubba, were they NF members, the people you identified, G, Silk, Shadow? A. Q. Not to my knowledge, no. Now, in terms of your own gang activity, in what city
did you grow up in? A. Q. In Richmond, California. And were you ever considered -- or did you ever
consider yourself a Norteno gang member?
8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. I did. What sort of specific clique did you belong to as a
Norteno? A. Barrio San Pablo and North Side Locos. Two small
groups in Richmond and San Pablo area. Q. How old were you when you got involved in the various
street gangs? A. Q. 12 years old. Did you obtain any tattoos that were representative of
the Norteno street gangs that you were a member of? A. Yes. MR. TEDMON: THE COURT: BY MR. HITT: Objection, Your Honor, relevance. Sustained. Did you eventually become a member of a
different organization? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. What group was that? Nuestra Raza. That's Nuestra -- what's the last -- the second part? Raza. R-A-Z-A? Yes, sir. How is that different than the Norteno groups that you
were a member of? A. It's a prison organization. It was a
9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 paramilitary-type organization that was very organized, and it was through, you know, an oath that you took in prison. became involved with that. Q. And as compared to Nuestra Familia, how does Nuestra I
Raza relate? MR. TEDMON: THE COURT: MR. BIGELOW: Objection, Your Honor, relevance. Overruled. If he knows.
Your Honor, I wonder if we could have Even Mr. Gable is having
him pull his microphone closer. difficulty. THE COURT: microphone. All right.
Make sure you speak into the
The objection is overruled.
How does Nuestra Raza
relate to Nuestra Familia, if he knows. THE WITNESS: Nuestra Raza was a subgroup of the NF.
It was established to carry out activities of the NF because members were unable to participate in certain activities on the main lines in prison, most of them were locked down. was kind of the spawn, I guess you would say, the next generation of the NF. Q. BY MR. HITT: And in terms of your experience as a It
Nuestra Raza member, did you have the same authority as an NF Carnon or less? A. I think it depended on the circumstances. In some
prisons, in some main lines, where there was no NF members,
10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 our authority was unchallenged, and you did have the authority equal to an NF member. However, whenever in the
prisons there was a NF member, or at the direction of a NF member, you're always subordinate. Q. How about once you were functioning on the street?
For example, when you met Mister, did he outrank you as a Nuestra Raza member? A. Q. Yes. We were all subordinate to Mister's authority.
And in the context of the NF, were you familiar with
the term "soldado"? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. What did you understand the term soldado to mean? A soldier. As it relates to the NF, did you consider yourself a
soldier of the NF? A. I considered myself a soldado at the disposal of the
NF, but not as an actual member of -- there was kind of -you know, you could be a soldado and be a NF member, but you can't be -- or you could be a NF member and a soldado, but you can't be a soldado and an NF member at times. It was
really a rank, you know, that was assigned to you, I guess you could say. Q. You were -- you said at the disposal, essentially, as
a soldado, or as an associate of the NF, but not a member? A. Yes.
11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Are you familiar with the term "familiano"? Yes. What does that mean in the context of the NF? That means you're an active member of the NF. And were you ever -- you were never a familiano? No, I was not. Now, in the same time period, late 2003, early 2004,
did you come to meet someone known to you as Paqui? A. Q. Yes, I did. What were the circumstances of you meeting this person
named Paqui? A. We went to Salinas to meet Paqui, and I was informed
that Paqui was, you know, the regiment commander for the Salinas area, and subsequently all regiment activities throughout California under the direct command of NF leadership in Salinas, and that he was a Carnon, and, you know, to respect him, and whatnot. Q. When you were introduced, who introduced you initially
to Paqui? A. We went down there as a group. It was me, Silk, G and So, I couldn't
Shadow, and we went to Salinas and met them.
say what individual was exactly that introduced, you know, hey, V, this is Paqui, but we were all present, and I was brought down there by that group and introduced to him. Q. Did you ever learn Paqui's real name?
12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. I've heard it here and there, but I can't recall
exactly what it is. Q. Take a look at what's been received in evidence as
Government's Exhibit 1. Is that the person you recognize as Paqui? Yes, it is. Now, these meetings in Salinas -THE COURT: MR. HITT: For the record, that's a photo of whom? Mr. Amaro. These meetings in Salinas, were there
BY MR. HITT:
more than one after you initially met Paqui at the Salinas meeting? A. Q. Yes. About how many times would you say you were -- you
went to Salinas for meetings where Paqui was present? A. Q. Half a dozen or more. And were there -- the meetings held in different
locations? A. Q. Yes. What were some of the locations you recall where the
meetings were held? A. Different houses. Mister took us to one house,
another time we went with Gallo to another house, G took us to various houses, small apartments. Q. These were residential locations within the city of
13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Salinas? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, they were. And the locations varied? Yes. And when you -- and in your answer you mentioned the
name Mister, that's the person we saw who you also knew as Bubba in Government's Exhibit 6? A. Q. Yes. And you used the term Gallo. Take a look at what's
been received in evidence as Government's Exhibit 5. Is that the person you knew as Gallo? Yes. Did you know Mr. Gallo's real name? Mario Diaz. And so that was someone you became acquainted with as
time went on in 2004? A. Q. Yes. Now, going back to these meetings in Salinas, let's Were you questioned by Paqui
start with the initial meeting.
about your own background or status when you initially arrived at the meeting? A. Q. Paqui? A. I was debriefed, asked to debrief prison history, and Yes. What sort of questions were put to you by Mr. Amaro or
14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 my associations, and also my intent within the organization, how I thought I might participate, what resources I had. And a lot of it was -- a lot of questions about the penn, because I had recently paroled from Pelican Bay SHU. There was quite a few questions about who was there, what was going on, questions about information about the organization behind the walls, whatnot. Q. And did you provide responsive answers to Paqui during
those question-answer sessions? A. Q. I did. In addition to the group you had arrived with, G,
Shadow, Silk, were there any people of authority aside from Paqui who were present at this initial meeting; if you recall? A. Q. A. Q. Mister. That's Bubba? Yes. Now, how were -- were each of the meetings similar in
how they were conducted and the topics discussed? A. Q. Yes. Generally so.
Can you describe for the jury, how did the meetings
proceed? A. Well, we would come together, and typically there
would be a table in the room, everybody would be asked to take their cell phones out, turn them off, put them on the
15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 table, remove any electronic devices. And kind of as a act
of camaraderie, we'd go around and ask how each other were doing, how we felt. And then we'd proceed. Somebody in the
crew would proceed to lead us into a conversation about what we were doing at that point with our resources, what resources we had available in our community, and how we might pool those resources to work more effectively for the organization. Q. And when you say "resources," were there specific
discussions during these meetings about criminal activities? A. Yes. We would plan robberies. If somebody had
information on a known drug seller, big drug seller, or somebody that, you know, happened to have a lot of marijuana or guns, and how we might acquire those by force, you know, from them, and what resources we would need to accomplish that. As well as what the potential we had each for, you
know, distributing drugs in our areas, and how much we might need from them, and what resources we might need in distributing those or, you know, handling everything. Q. So, in addition to the targets for possible -- targets
of opportunity, I suppose, you would also discuss the potential for drug trafficking activity in the particular area where you were staying at that time? A. Q. Yes. And from your perspective, what area did you represent
16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 when you were engaging in these meetings in Salinas with Paqui? A. I was assigned originally through Silk, who informed
me that it was decided by Paqui before I was introduced to him, and eventually confirmed by Paqui, that I would be assigned as the regiment commander for the East Bay area. Q. And what was your understanding of what your role as
regiment commander would require you to do for the East Bay area? A. To organize Nortenos and Norteno associates in the
areas from Solano County to San Leandro, and pulling the manpower together, finding the hermanos or NR members, NF members, and other Norteno street associates that were willing to cooperate with us, to participate, and finding out what was available, what kind of drugs were available, what kind of prices were available, what kind of artillery was available, safe houses. It was -- it was a lot of responsibilities involved that I had to do in getting out there and trying to pull everybody together and unionize the gangs, I guess you could say, in various areas to pool their resources for a bigger goal. Q. And when you were having these discussions in the
meetings, were the topics that you've just described, the sort of responsibilities expected of you, were those part of
17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the topics that you discussed with Paqui and the others? A. Yes. That was -- we were -- all of us were -- were
made to -- to verbalize our understanding of our responsibilities in order to ensure that we knew them. So,
it wasn't assumed that you knew what your responsibilities were. It wasn't taken for granted that you assumed what to You had to tell the group what it is
do and how to do it.
exactly you had to do, and how you plan on going about it, and in order to reassure them that you were capable of fulfilling your duties and responsibilities in that position. Q. Now, in addition to you having the regiment commander
label for the East Bay area, did other members of the group that you were present with have responsibilities for other regiments? A. Q. Yes. And who had -- what were the other regiments
represented during these meetings that you would attend in Salinas? A. There was a Salinas regiment which was present with And San Francisco, which was under the And G worked hand in hand with
Paqui and Mister.
direct authority of Silk. them and Shadow.
I was the only NR member, or NF associate, in the East Bay at that time, and so I was told to work hand in hand with them in order that they may assist us in becoming more self
18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. sufficient in that area, and controlling operations without need of external assistance. And the reason for doing that
was for security, so that each regiment can function independently, so if one failed, they couldn't tell on the other one's operations. Q. And when you indicate that your authority for -- as a
regiment commander for the East Bay included the various areas you identified, did you consider yourself having authority over Alameda County, the city of Oakland, or that particular part of the Bay Area? A. Q. Yes, I did. And once you were designated with these -- this
authority, and began to function as a regiment commander, did drug trafficking figure into the activities that you oversaw in the East Bay regiment -A. Q. Yes. -- for the NF? Yes? Yes. And if you can explain, then, how could you have
authority as a regiment commander if you were not a Nuestra Familia member? A. There was a lack of manpower. Subject to the lack of
manpower in that area.
There was a wealth of resources,
black market resources available in the East Bay, and many
19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 pockets of Norteno groups in various communities that were not being organized, and the resources were not being exploited for the general NF welfare. And so, in the absence
of members being in that area, I was designated the authority. Q. So, you could function as a regiment commander on
behalf of the NF and not be a member of the NF? A. Q. Yes. And was it your understanding that is permitted by the
terms of the constitution? A. Q. Yes, it is. And by "constitution" I don't mean the United States
Constitution, the NF constitution. A. Q. Yes. And you were familiar with that in your training at
the Pelican Bay SHU? A. Yes. I was trained in the NF constitution and the NR
thoroughly. Q. Now, during the Salinas meetings, were there moments
within the meeting where sidebars occurred where you were not a participant in certain conversations? A. Yeah. It was generally Paqui or Mister would pull And
each of us to the side and have a sidebar conversation.
sometimes you could tell by the demeanor and the gestures of the people talking the seriousness of it. And in order, I
20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 guess, probably not to feel left out, sometimes he would just pull you on the side and give you a pat on the back, tell you you're doing a good job, you know, how to handle things more effectively, and try to give you insight on what to expect in the future. Q. During the meetings that you attended, were there
discussions about who -- or where portions of the drug proceeds that you earned as a regiment commander in the East Bay were supposed to go? A. Q. Yes. And what sort of discussions did you have about where
drug proceeds from the regiment that you oversaw, where were they supposed to go? A. We were to tax ten percent of all profits and afford
them to Salinas regiment to aid the general NF establishment, you know, and I guess where they deemed fit that money should be served. And also, at the same time, to set aside an extra ten percent to build up your regiment's bank, you know, your pool of resources to make sure that you guys had a bank and money set up for, you know, regiment necessities. Q. And as a regiment commander, were you expected to
eventually have a self sufficient East Bay regiment for the NF? A. Yes. That was the goal, was to establish a East Bay
21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 self sufficient regiment that would not need the assistance of other regiments, especially with the supplying of drugs and weapons and manpower, which we were in short supply of at the time. Q. As a result of these meetings and conversations that
you had with Paqui and Mister and the others, did you essentially agree to commit crimes on behalf of the NF starting in 2004? A. Q. I did. And did you continue to commit crimes on behalf of the
NF until approximately mid 2006 or so? A. Q. Yes, I did. Between that same time period, 2004 to 2006, did you
contribute drug money from the East Bay regiment to the Salinas NF regiment? A. Q. I did. Now, we had talked a little bit early on that the
initial drugs that you were able to distribute in the Bay Area were marijuana. distributing in 2004? A. Q. Pounds. What price -- generally, what was the price range for What quantities of marijuana were you
the pounds you were obtaining in 2004 of marijuana? A. 1500 to $3,000, depending on the quality of the
marijuana.
22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And how much could you make in selling those pounds of
marijuana? A. Q. 1,000 to $2,000 profit per pound. And where were you distributing the pounds that you
were receiving of marijuana? A. Throughout the whole Bay Area, pretty much, as far as
Vegas and up north to Sacramento. Q. Were there specific cities within the Bay Area that
you were regularly distributing pounds of marijuana in 2004? A. It was the San Ramon, Dublin, Pleasant Hill area.
Also San Francisco, Oakland, and those areas in general. Q. This marijuana, was it a higher quality marijuana that
you -- that fetched the higher price at that time? A. Q. A. Yes. Where were you being supplied this marijuana from? The first, I think, ten to 20 pounds we received was
through a robbery that we coordinated with San Francisco regiment to rob a weed supplier, a grower, of his marijuana. And we used that marijuana and -- we sold it and used that money to purchase more marijuana from a cartel guy by the name of Julian. Q. A. Q. Where was Julian located? In Stockton. And this marijuana robbery, about how many pounds did
you say the group cleared from that robbery?
23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. About 12 to 20 pounds. That was essentially free marijuana to get going? Yes. Get the bank going. Did there -- did you make contributions to the Salinas regiment from proceeds obtained from this robbery? A. Yes, we did. It was actually quite a debate with Silk We had Silk was
over how much of a contribution we should make. already been informed that ten percent should go.
requesting that each one of us pay ten percent because we were from different regiments, and we were under the assumption that we would just -- it would be ten percent of the whole robbery that would go, but rather we were all each individually asked to pay ten percent. Q. Do you remember approximately what your cut of the
profit from the robbery was? A. Q. Upwards of $30,000. Did you, in fact, contribute a ten percent chunk of -THE COURT: Are you asking about his personal profit
or the East Bay profit? MR. HITT: THE COURT: MR. HITT: I can ask both. I don't know what you were asking. That's a good point. They were actually one in the same at
THE WITNESS: the time.
I was the only manpower in the East Bay at the
24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 time. Q. point? A. Q. profit? A. Q. Exactly. Did you, in fact, contribute ten percent of the 30 or Exactly. So, your profit was the same as the East Bay regiment BY MR. HITT: So, you were a regiment of one at that
so thousand to the Salinas regiment from that? A. Q. Yes, I did. And Julian -- once that connection with Julian was
made in the Stockton area, was he someone that you regularly obtained pound level -- pound quantities of marijuana from? A. Q. Yes. And about how much would you get at a time from
Julian, what quantities of drugs, marijuana? A. Q. No less than ten pounds, probably no more than 25. And how regularly would you be resupplied with
marijuana from Julian? A. Q. A. Q. Almost every week for a while. This is in the 2004 time frame? The end of 2003, the beginning of 2004, yes. Now, at some point, I think you mentioned this in your
earlier answer, did you progress to being supplied with drugs other than marijuana?
25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Yes. How did -- well, let's start with what other drugs? Methamphetamines, crystal methamphetamines and cocaine Originally it was Silk and G and
were being given to us.
Shadow who were getting the drugs from Salinas regiment, and they were ordered to share some of that with me in order to start building up regiment resources in the East Bay. And
they shared a small portion with me of those first pounds and kilos that were received, which I distributed to some Norteno street members to start making a profit and organizing lower level manpower. Q. Going back just a minute on the pounds of marijuana
coming in from Julian, were you -- the 10 to 25 pounds or so that would come in on a weekly basis or so, were those being shared with the San Francisco regiment? A. Q. Yeah. They were taking most of the weed.
And you would take a portion that you could move in
the East Bay area? A. Q. Yes. And then you said that the Salinas regiment at some
point began supplying San Francisco regiment with pound quantities of methamphetamine and kilo quantities of cocaine? A. Q. Yes. Who was the conduit or contact person from Salinas
regiment for the drugs that were coming into San Francisco?
26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. That would be Mister. And that -- if we can see Exhibit 6, again, that's
Bubba, or Mister as you knew him? A. Q. Yes. And in the early part of Salinas regiment supplying
the Bay Area, how often were cocaine and methamphetamine being brought up by Mister? A. I believe in the beginning it was maybe once a week.
Shortly after that it moved up to every couple days maybe. Q. And how much were coming up in the early part of this
cocaine and methamphetamine trafficking? A. I think we started with maybe two pounds of crystal
and two kilos of coke, from which I was given a couple ounces of each to put out on the streets to check the quality and determine the prices in the East Bay. Once we determined a
favorable price, then we could undercut the market in those areas, then the quantities increased. Q. And what -- how long did Salinas regiment continue to
supply San Francisco regiment while you were functioning as a regiment commander for the East Bay? A. As far as I know, up until 2007 when I had my last
contacts with NF members in that area. Q. And at some point did the quantity -- you said the
quantities increased, the amount of drugs coming in from the Salinas regiment?
27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Yes. From the drugs that were being brought into the
San Francisco regiment, and the portions that you were being given, during the time period of, say, 2004 to 2007, what was the most that was earned by the San Francisco Richmond regiments in a -- say in a monthly time period from drug trafficking? THE COURT: MR. HITT: San Francisco Richmond regiment? I'm sorry, East Bay. Let me ask you this: The San Francisco,
BY MR. HITT:
East Bay or Richmond area, were you considered, essentially, one large regiment? A. hand. Um, yeah. Essentially, we were. We worked hand in
I was always considered somewhat of a San Francisco Salinas is really
native as I had a lot of history there.
the only ones that made a distinction between the two. We -- me and San Francisco, we kind of operated hand in hand. basis. You know, we ran around together daily, on a daily So they were two technically distinct regiments,
however we -- we pooled our resources and spent so much time together they were essentially one in the same. At times you
couldn't tell, unless you were part of them, that there was a distinction. Q. And I -- what the Court was pointing out, I slipped
into saying Richmond regiment rather than East Bay --
28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: No. What I was actually questioning was
whether you were lumping San Francisco and Richmond slash East Bay together, and I think he's explained. MR. HITT: I was trying to say, basically,
San Francisco East Bay, are all the same, San Francisco Richmond is all the same, basically. THE WITNESS: Well, Richmond -- I guess you could say
because I was in Richmond, that was the capital of the East Bay regiment, you could say. Q. BY MR. HITT: And once -- once things had increased in
terms of the quantities of methamphetamine and cocaine being supplied by the Salinas regiment, what was the best -highest volume of money that was being made during that 2004 to 2006 time frame? A. month. Q. And when you say "half a million," was that -- that I think we reached about half a million dollars a
wasn't after costs, was that just total amount of money coming in? A. Yeah. That was the total amount of money, the money
we owed for drugs and including our profits. Q. And after paying back -- and the drugs were being
received on a front or a credit from Salinas regiment? A. Q. Yes. After paying back what was owed on the -- to Salinas
29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. regiment for the drugs, do you recall about how much profit was left in this time period where half a million or so was coming in a month? A. Q. Upwards of a hundred thousand, $150,000 profit. And is that profit for -- considering both
San Francisco and East Bay regiments as a -- together? A. No. It was -- it was different. At one point --
sometimes one month San Francisco might move a lot more than Richmond would. Sometimes -- and for the most times,
Richmond became moving more -- a lot more drugs than San Francisco would. profit. THE COURT: I don't want to keep interrupting here, So I generated and kept most of the
but I want to make sure that you're asking about the same thing that he's answering. When he said 500,000 per month
sales, was he talking about San Francisco and the East Bay together? And when he talked about the profit of a hundred
thousand to $150,000 a month, was he talking about just one, or both San Francisco and East Bay together? MR. HITT: THE COURT: MR. HITT: That's a good point. You might want to clarify that. I will try to do that. You heard the Court's question, so let
BY MR. HITT:
me see if I can ask it in a more artful way. The figure of 500,000 in a month, does that represent
30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 both San Francisco and East Bay together, or is that just for one regiment? A. That represents us both together. The way it operated
was San Francisco was the one that took delivery of the drugs, and then they came to me from there. Eventually, after some time, when Mister was out of the picture and Gallo came into the picture, then I started to take a more hands-on with it, and established safe houses in the East Bay where deliveries from Salinas were being made regularly. Q. So, whether it was you taking delivery directly at a
later time period, or in the early part where Mister is delivering it to San Francisco, the figure that you're using, that represents both regiments together, the 500,000? A. one. Yes, because we would -- we would pay and receive as So if they brought us, you know, 30 or 40 pounds of
methamphetamines, or however many kilos of coke, it was up to us to decide how that was, you know, divided. Q. And when the payments were made to Salinas regiment,
would that be paid as a -- both regiments would give the payments, or did you have individual -- like, you had to pay for East Bay and San Francisco had to pay separately? A. Originally we started off where San Francisco -- I
would forward my taxes or dues to San Francisco and they would send it down to Salinas. The same with the money that
31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we made from the drugs. Eventually, once I started to move
more drugs, then I became more personally involved in handling that aspect. Q. A. Q. So it would change over time, basically? Yes. And out of the -- sticking with the 500,000 that was
earned in sort of the top or the best month, from that you said there was a profit of about 150,000 left over? A. Q. Yes. That's profit that essentially represented both
San Francisco and East Bay regiments together? A. Q. Yes. And what percentage -- was there a percentage of that
150 or so thousand dollars profit paid as a contribution to the Salinas regiment? A. Yes. At one time my ten percent would -- and for
quite a few months I was paying 10 to $15,000 in dues to Salinas. Q. How did you get the money to Salinas regiment when you
were paying these contributions? A. Originally I would give it to G, and G would handle At the time I was still on
transportation between Salinas.
parole, and I believe G and Shadow had already gotten off parole so it was less of a risk for them to be involved in the transactions, and so I would give everything to them and
32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they would handle it. Later on, as I started moving the East Bay regiment towards more self sufficiency, and started, you know, acquiring more manpower and resources, I was able to delegate those responsibilities to other people. Q. And you had -- did you have people that, essentially,
were working underneath you after a time? A. Q. Yes. And you would instruct them to deliver the money to
the Salinas area? A. Q. Yes. Who was it that were your point of contacts for
delivery of the money where you were instructing others to take it to? A. There was Jermaine Valencia, Chuy, Anthony Mayestas,
several other guys in the regiment. Q. time? A. Yes. Guys that were functioning underneath my command Those were people functioning underneath you at that
in the East Bay Richmond regiment. Q. Who was it on the Salinas end that you would instruct
these individuals to take the contributions to? A. In the beginning it was Mister, sometimes, and they And then
would meet him sometimes in the city or halfway. after Mister left it was Gallo.
And eventually there was --
33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 under Gallo's authority there was other guys, one of them by the name of Gangster, who they met quite often. Q. A. Q. A. Q. By Gallo you mean Mario Diaz? Yes. And Mister is a person also known as Bubba? Yes. When you were engaged in drug trafficking during this
2004 to 2006 time frame, did you discuss drug deals over cell phones? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Did you use coded language to discuss the drug deals? Yes, we did. Did you have a particular code that was used
throughout the two or so years that you were actually involved in this? A. Yeah. We were assigned a code. The term AT&T was
used to refer to kilos of cocaine. to as pounds of methamphetamines. amounts of cocaine or Metros.
And Metros were referred Accessories were smaller
And also, later on, the Burritos
terminology was changed to burritos and tacos.
representing whole pounds or kilos, and tacos representing ounces. Q. And were these easily understood by other members of
the, say, San Francisco regiment if you were discussing drugs over the phone?
34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yeah. We -- I -- I think I've used those terminology
with everybody in all the regiments. Q. A. Q. The same with Salinas? Yes. And at some point in 2004, did you come to meet a
person named Michael Martinez? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And did he have a nickname? Lentes. Do you know what lentes means in Spanish? Lenses. Lenses? Yeah. Glass lenses. Where was he based when you
And who was Mr. Martinez?
met him? A. I originally met Mike in Pelican Bay SHU. And he was
in Sacramento -- released to custody in Sacramento when we became reacquainted. Q. And when you met up with Mr. Martinez, did you have
discussions with him about drug trafficking? A. Q. Yes, I did. And where was it where you had your first, sort of,
sit down or discussion with Mr. Martinez about the drug trade? A. I met with Mike, I drove up to Sacramento to meet with
35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 him, and to help him make some contacts with Salinas. soon after that he took a trip with us to Salinas to establish contact with the regiment there. Q. area? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, I did. And did you introduce Mr. Martinez to anybody? Yes, I did. Who did you introduce Mr. Martinez to? Paqui and Mister. So, at that time those were the two representatives And did you accompany Mr. Martinez to the Salinas And
from Salinas regiment? A. Q. Mister? A. That was what I was instructed to do as part of the Yes. And why did you take Mr. Martinez to meet Paqui and
obligations of working with manpower. Q. A. Q. And by "manpower," what does that term mean? Members of the organization. And did you have an eye on Mr. Martinez as someone
that potentially you could work with and have an additional drug trafficking relationship with in the Sacramento area? A. him. Yes, I did. I had a long personal relationship with
We spent several years together in the SHU, and I
figured he was a fairly intelligent person that could do well
36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with finances on the streets and, you know, might prove a valuable asset for the organization. Q. And did Mr. Martinez eventually put you in contact
with an important -- what would turn out to be an important drug supplier for you? A. Q. A. Yes, he did. Who was that? That was Cuauhtemoc, or Themo for short. Themo was
with the cartel from Jalisco, or Yahualica, a city in Jalisco, that was moving massive quantities of drugs into the state. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And Themo, that is the short name, would be T-E-M-O? T-H-E-M-O. Where was Themo based when you were introduced to him? He was also in Contra Costa County. And Mr. Martinez was the person that facilitated that
introduction? A. Q. Yes, he did. And once you met Themo, did he become someone that
regularly supplied you with large quantities of methamphetamine? A. Q. Yes. Now, at some point after meeting Mr. Martinez,
introducing him to Paqui and Mister and meeting Themo, did something happen to Mr. Martinez to take him off the radar,
37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 so to speak? A. Yeah. Shortly after meeting with Themo, it was my
understanding that he was arrested with a weapon, walking into a house that was being raided, or maybe there was a search going on. I'm not sure about the details. But I
remember being told that he was in custody for a weapons charge and drugs charge. Q. And that was while he was -- Mr. Martinez was in
Sacramento? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Was Mr. Martinez an NF member, as far as you know? No. And once Mr. Martinez had been arrested, did you then
make acquaintance with a significant drug customer in the Sacramento area? A. Yes. Shortly after that, somebody I met while with
him visiting in the Sacramento area by the name of Sammy Perez contacted me. Q. you? A. He was trying to reconnect with the cartel, the Themo All right. And why did Mr. Perez get in touch with
cartel and the Yahualica cartel, to get some more drugs up to the area. Q. A. Did Sammy Perez indicate where he was based? Yes. Sacramento.
38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And I take it that he was familiar with Themo from
having dealt with Mr. Martinez? A. Q. Yes. And once Mr. Martinez was in on his case, you became
sort of the connection for Perez to Themo? A. Well, I actually informed Sammy that Themo was
unavailable, but we had other resources available to supply what they needed, and kind of middle-manned deals between the cartels in Sacramento. Q. And did you, in fact, distribute methamphetamine to
Sammy Perez in the Sacramento area? A. Q. Yes, I did. How long -- when did you start? What year was it when
you started sending methamphetamine to Sammy? A. Q. 2004, when I began sending methamphetamines to Sam. Was it also 2004 when I guess -- before you met Sammy,
and you introduced Mr. Martinez to Paqui and Mister, that was 2004? A. Q. 2004? A. Q. Yes. And how long did the relationship where you were Yes. And when you made the acquaintance of Themo, that was
distributing drugs to Sammy last? A. Up until about 2007. Early, January 2007.
39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Was it a fairly regular supply of drugs that you were
providing to Sammy? A. There would be months at a time where it was regular,
and then sometimes he would find it for a cheaper price somewhere else. And, you know, of course we would barter
with our cartels to try to lower the prices because we were loosing, you know, customers and market, and try to get him to come back to us. us. Q. And when you made the connection with Themo, were you And usually we got him to come back to
also still receiving drugs from the Salinas regiment? A. Q. A. Yes. And why were you doing that? To keep favor with them. And also, you know, to show
that I -- you know, we were -- that we were effective in the organization, that we were competent, so that we wouldn't be replaced. Or also I didn't want it to happen -- I kind of
felt if I didn't get stuff from them, and they found out that we were making money, you know, without contributing to them, that something, you know, could happen to us. Q. And Themo basically could have filled all the orders
that you had for drugs, is that it? A. Q. He could -- they could have filled everybody's order. But you still would receive drugs from the Salinas
regiment to stay in good graces, I take it?
40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. And was this the same arrangement that was fairly
consistent from '04 to the early part of 2007, where you would be supplied by Themo and also receive drugs from the Salinas regiment? A. Q. Yes. What quantities during this time period of
methamphetamine were you receiving from Themo? A. I remember when it started he gave me one pound and a And it took us a few days to move
couple days to move it. it.
And I think within three months we were up to about 50 And within six months we were up to about a hundred
pounds.
pounds a month. Q. And how were you able to distribute all this
methamphetamine that was coming in through Themo? A. We were sending it to Montana, to Billings, Montana,
to Las Vegas, and also throughout California with connections that we had established. Q. And was Sammy Perez one of the people that was the
recipient of the pounds that were coming in from Themo? A. Q. A. Yes. How much would Sammy get from you at a time? Ten to 20 pounds. I think at one time he got 25
pounds from me. Q. And how were you able to handle distributing all these
41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. drugs? Did you have people that were also taking drugs or
assisting you? A. Yeah. We had -- I had a -- drivers, you know, some
females, some guys, some associates of the regiment that would, you know, do the distribution for me, also involved in some of the process of cutting the dope and housing it. THE COURT: MR. HITT: THE COURT: gentlemen. Do you want to take a break now? Sure. We'll take a 15-minute recess, ladies and
Remember the admonition.
(Thereupon a recess was taken.) THE COURT: Everyone is present.
You may continue, Mr. Hitt. MR. HITT: Thank you, Your Honor. Before the break, Mr. Treas, we were
BY MR. HITT:
discussing the drugs that were coming in from Themo and how they were being distributed. When the drugs were being sent, when you would have individuals take the drugs to Sammy in Sacramento, did you take precautions in instructing the drivers on how to take the drugs to Sammy? A. Q. Yes. We took a lot of precautions.
What sort of precautions did you take to transport
drugs to Sacramento to Sammy? A. Give you an example, if that would work. I would have
42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 somebody without a criminal record, first of all, as my driver, and usually in a rental car or a registered vehicle with insurance, a clean vehicle that was inconspicuous, no rims or tinted windows or anything. Also make sure the
vehicles were free of any smell of marijuana or alcohol or other paraphernalia. Generally I'd make sure that the drivers were dressed well, not wearing baggy clothing or hats, especially, or beanie caps while they were driving. people in the car. The drugs were usually stashed pretty well in an available space in the car, or in a space that we made available, a hidden compartment in the vehicle. And we always had a second driver following that vehicle to make sure that no police vehicles or law enforcement could be following them or to pull them over. so, in that case, then the second vehicle was to run interference, to cause an accident of some sort, so that the first vehicle could get away. And we also -- you know, there was -- if you didn't use a blinker when you changed lanes, you lost a percentage of your profit. If you made wrong turns or you got lost or If Not have more than two
you sped, there were consequences. Q. So this was all -- these were all rules that you
imposed on the individuals that were working for the East Bay
43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 regiment in delivering drugs? A. Yeah. This was common protocol that I was taught by
the NF members, you know, in how to handle operations. Q. And a little earlier we had discussed the person you Do you see the person
knew as Paqui, and we saw Exhibit 1. you knew as Paqui here in court? A. Q. Yes, I do.
Can you identify him by describing where he is located
and articles of his clothing. A. He is to the right, behind you, with the glasses and
the blue shirt. THE COURT: Mr. Amaro. Q. BY MR. HITT: Now, during the time between when you Record will reflect he's identified
began functioning in the East Bay regiment in 2004 and when you sort of left it in the end of '06, early 2007, who did you understand to be the overall authority for the NF drug trafficking operations that you were engaged in? A. Q. That would be Paqui. And what about the person you knew as Mister, at some
point did he sort of go off the radar? A. Q. Yes. And do you know about what time, what year that was,
that Mister was no longer around? A. I can't remember the date exactly. I would guess that
44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it was in '05. Q. And after Mister disappeared, did you come to meet
Gallo or Mario Diaz? A. Q. A. Yes, I did. And what was Mr. Diaz's role when you met him? Diaz was basically taking over Mister's role in being
our channel to Salinas, our liaison of sorts in the regiment. And Gallo was also taking on further responsibilities in having direct contact with cartels, and I believe just enhancing our -- you know, our transactions throughout the area. Q. Did you receive -- when you earlier answered before
the break that you would still receive drugs from the Salinas regiment, was one of the persons that supplied you with drugs from the Salinas regiment Mr. Diaz? A. Q. Yes, it was. And what quantities of drugs were you receiving from
the Salinas regiment between 2005 and 2007? A. It could be anywhere from two pounds, when there was
not very much available, and maybe a kilo, upwards to maybe 40 pounds and 20 kilos when it was available. Q. A. Q. A. By pounds are you referring to methamphetamine? Yes. Kilos you're referring to cocaine? Yes.
45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Area? A. Q. Yes, he did. After he left -- well, at the time he left, did you And in approximately 2005, did Silk leave the Bay
know where he was going? A. Q. No, I didn't. Was there an incident or a problem once Silk left the
Bay Area? A. Yes. Silk, being the San Francisco regiment
commander, was responsible for the finances that go to Salinas. It came to my knowledge that Silk had ran off, we
didn't have no clue as to why, with somewhere between the range of maybe 25 and $50,000 of a debt that he owed. Q. And as a result of this debt that's left by Silk, did
you have -- did you engage or participate in a meeting about that topic? A. Yes. We -- we were called together to, um -- it was
kind of a little bit of chaos at the time because we were worried that the drugs might dry up, and also who was going to take responsibility for the San Francisco regiment, at which time we had a meeting at a billiards hall in San Francisco. Q. Who was present at this meeting in the San Francisco
pool hall? A. That would be Paqui, myself, G, Shadow, Ray Romprey,
46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Ray Ray, Champ, also known as, was another San Francisco regiment operative. was us. Q. A. And what was discussed during this meeting? The discussion was responsibility for the debt, and And I don't believe Basil was there. It
chain of command, succession of the chain of command, and who would take over responsibilities for the San Francisco regiment. It was decided with all of us in favor of G taking
over the San Francisco regiment. A discussion then arose about how we would handle the debt and Silk's circumstances. The question was asked, you Paqui asked us, and G responded, what
know, how do we want to deal with Silk. we was, like, well, what are our options. are our options? pay the debt.
And we were kind of reluctant to want to
We were trying to figure out a way to resolve
the debt, and still get drugs in, and still be part of the operations. At which point Paqui responded that the debt
could die with Silk. Q. A. And what did you understand that to mean? That if we kill Silk then the debt is forgiven. But
if we want to continue to operate and keep Silk in good grace, we have to pay the debt. Q. And what -- who was the debt owed to based on this --
the discussions during this meeting? A. To the Salinas regiment.
47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And what was it owed for? Drugs. Drugs that had been provided on credit? Yes. And as a result of the meeting, you said that G was
placed in charge as the regiment commander for San Francisco? A. Q. Yes. And who had decided that? You said there was a group
consensus or a vote of some sort? A. Yeah, it was a group consensus. Paqui assigned him,
and then he asked if we were all, you know, okay with that, to which we all responded, yes, we were acceptable with that. Q. And at the meeting you mentioned someone that you If we could see Government's
referred to as Ray or Champ. Exhibit 26, please.
Is that the person that you knew as Champ? Yes. And he was -- what was his role in the drug
trafficking operations? A. I think he had recently been released, and he was just
starting to get involved in the San Francisco operations, running around a lot with G in distribution. MR. HITT: We can take that down, please. Now, this meeting at the San Francisco
BY MR. HITT:
billiards hall with Paqui and the others, this was at some
48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 time in 2005, is that what you said? A. Q. Yes. And after this meeting, did -- was there a decision
made on whether to try and pay back the debt that Silk had left? A. Yes. We -- we all decided we didn't want to really We, you know,
get involved in any violence at the time. didn't want to promote violence.
I especially had a
philosophy that violence and drugs didn't mix, that one would befall the other. And we were most concerned with profits And at the time we
and keeping that money coming in.
decided -- and also based on our personal likability of Silk, that we didn't want to do nothing to him, and we'd be responsible for repaying the debt. Q. And did the debt, in fact, get repaid to the Salinas
regiment? A. Q. debt? A. Q. Yes, I did. Do you know, about how much did you put towards the Yes, it was. Did you assist in making contributions to repay that
debt that Silk left? A. Q. A. Approximately 15,000. But ultimately it was cleared with Salinas? Yes, it was.
49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And in the same time period -- actually, going back a
little bit, 2004 and moving forward, did you have discussions about contributing money towards visits to Pelican Bay? A. Yes. Early on, and we'd always -- always been taught,
especially in Pelican Bay, that the taxes and the dues were to go towards, basically, the same needs that union members would need to pay for, attorney costs, to pay for families, you know, people who were out of work, and also kind of like a venture fund, you know, to invest in other projects. At one particular time, Paqui advised us that they were going to charter a bus to send up to Pelican Bay so families could go and visit up there, and asked that we make a donation, to which I think I made about a $2500 donation. Q. And that was to -- who were the -- who was the bus
going to take up to Pelican Bay? A. Family members and loved ones of NF members that were
housed in the SHU. Q. Bay? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. What city is Pelican Bay located in? In Crescent City. While you were in Pelican Bay, did you come to know And you said you spent significant time at Pelican
somebody known as Conejo? A. Yes, I did.
50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. How did -- where was he housed? We were both in the SHU. At Pelican Bay? Yes, we were. And do you know Conejo's real name? James Perez. Did you have communications with Mr. Perez, aka
Conejo, once you had been released from Pelican Bay? A. Q. Yes, I did. When you would correspond with Mr. Perez, would you
write to him at the Pelican Bay address in Crescent City? A. Q. P.O. Box 7500, Crescent City, California. Now, earlier in your direct we had talked about
whether your authority as regiment commander for the East Bay included the city of Oakland and the county of Alameda. you remember that discussion? A. Q. Yes. At some point after 2004, or in the 2004 time period, Do
did that arrangement change, where your authority for Oakland or Alameda county was no longer assigned to you? A. Yes. After not being able to really get anything jump
started out there because of lack of connections, I didn't really have a lot of ties out there in the Norteno communities, as much as I did in some of the African American communities, I was informed that there was a Carnon that was
51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. taking over the Alameda county regiment by the name of Powder. Q. And who informed you that this person named Powder
would be taking over the Alameda county area regiment? A. me. Q. And then -- all right. Let's take a look at what's Originally I believe it was Mister and G that informed
been received in evidence as Government's Exhibit 2. Do you recognize the person in Government's Exhibit 2? Yes. Who is that? That would be Powder. And that's, for the record, a photograph of what's
been identified as defendant Ernest Paul Killinger. Did you have face-to-face meetings with Powder in the East Bay or the Oakland area? A. Q. Yes, I did. What were the nature of your meetings? Let's start with, how many times would you say you met with Powder? A. Q. years? A. Q. 2004 and 2005. Do you recall the first time you met Powder? Maybe a half a dozen to a dozen. And what time period are we talking about? What
52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, I do. Where were you? In a store that he owned. What type of store was it? Metro PCS store. What city? In Oakland. What was the nature of your first meeting at this
Metro PCS store in Oakland? A. I was with G, and I think we either were dropping off
some dope, or picking up some money, one of the two, and I was introduced to him. And we had a discussion about some of
his operations, and how the store was using some of the money towards investing in some legitimate fronts. Q. And this store, did you actually enter the cell phone
store and take a look around? A. Q. A. Yes, I did. What did it look like inside? You walked in and there was some accessories along the And there was a
wall, some phones, typical Metro PCS store.
glass display counter, the register, a female working behind it. Behind that, maybe about two or three feet behind that,
a door that went to the back where we went back and had conversations. And it was kind of, you know, the back of a
store, you know, a lot of boxes and, you know, ladders and
53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 couple chairs. Q. Take a look at what's been received in evidence as
Government's Exhibit 319. Do you recognize this building as being the location where you entered the cell phone store in Oakland to meet with Powder? A. Q. Yes, I do. Take a look at 320. Do you recognize that to be the
storefront that you entered when you met with Powder in 2004? A. Q. Yes, I do. During the discussion at this initial meeting, you
mentioned you discussed investment in legitimate businesses. Is that what you said? A. Q. Yes. As part of your training and functioning as an NF
regiment member, what was your understanding of the goals or purpose as it relates to investing in legitimate businesses? A. Well, the goal was eventually to establish legitimate
business ventures that could generate legitimate profits, which could be traced back to the organization, and also to kind of create a continuity of income and flow towards members in the organization. Q. Were you, yourself, as a functioning regiment member,
interested in trying to start your own business? A. Yes, I was.
54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And was that part of your conversation with Powder,
about how he did it? A. Yes. We were particularly interested in the Metro PCS
stores, because the L.A. market was about to open up to Metro PCS, and we knew several other guys that were laundering quite a bit of money through the stores in the Richmond Oakland area, so we seen it as a way to invest some money and make it legal, or washable, in our eyes and the L.A. market. And he informed us a lot about the procedures and steps to take in going about that. Q. Did Powder have any details for you about sort of what
it would cost, kind of startup costs to get one of these cell phone stores going if you were interested? A. Yes. He told us it was about 15 to $20,000 to buy the And it
franchise rights to have an authorized dealership.
was very easy, if you had good credit, to apply for a small business loan that would allow you to get some funding for, you know, getting some of the materials. He also told us about how Metro will give you a lot of the accessories and cell phones on consignment, you know, to the business. location. Also about checking the market for the right
There was a lot of insight he gave us about how to
go about opening. Q. And your interest was then in trying to invest NF drug
money into a legitimate business such as a Metro PCS store?
55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. And in the half dozen or so times -- is that what you
said, how many times you'd been to the cell phone store to meet with Powder? A. Q. Yes. On those occasions, what were the nature of your
visits to meet with Powder at the cell phone store? A. It was usually to pick up dues, or money, or drop off,
you know, drugs or money. Me and Powder never really had the type of relationship that me and some of the other regiment, you know, guys had, where we talked on the phone consistently, and we hung out together, and, you know, was concerned and had some care about how each other's welfare was. Usually it
was brief conversations with him, hey, I have this many AT&Ts, or I need that many AT&Ts, or I need to drop this off, or can you pick that up, or somebody was sending us over there to do something. Q. When you said "AT&Ts" in that answer, were you
referring to the real type of AT&Ts, or were you talking about the cocaine type of -A. Q. A. Q. Kilos of cocaine. Those were discussions you had with Powder? Yes. When you were asked to go over there, were these
56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 conversations you had with Powder, or did other people call you and ask you to pick up money from Powder? A. Usually it was other people that called me and asked
me to go out there because I was in the East Bay. Q. And what would you do with money -- and did you, in
fact, pick up money from Powder at the cell phone store? A. Q. up? A. I would -- I think one time I gave it to Mister, or I know a few times I brought Yes, I did. What did you do with that money once you had picked it
maybe even Gallo, in the city.
it into the city and met directly with some of the Salinas regiment guys. Other times I would give it to G, or whoever
was in the city and making deliveries to Salinas. Q. A. Q. A. Q. for? A. That money was for drugs that had been fronted on You basically turn it over to the next in line? Yes. Salinas or San Francisco? Yes. And what was your understanding of what that money was
credit, and also to pay dues. Q. Did you become familiar with the term "monthly" when
you were functioning as a regiment commander? A. Yes.
57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. What did monthly mean to you? Monthly was the regiment dues, the taxes that you owed
monthly to the Salinas regiment. Q. A. Q. A. And did the dues, in fact, come due every month? Yes, they did. And did you make payments each month if you could? Consistently as much as we could. Sometimes -- I
mean, there wasn't a specific date, you know, but it was generally once a month we would get a call or be informed that, hey, the monthlies are due. And, you know, we'd have
to go back and reflect on how much we sold for them, and how much we made, and how much we had to pay for it. Q. When you were calculating -- did -- the amount due in
the monthly amount, it was due to the Salinas regiment? A. Q. Yes. Did the amount that was due each month vary based on
the volume of drug activity? A. Q. Yes, it did. When you were functioning, were there occasions where
you would attempt to conceal or disguise the amount of money or drugs that had been sold? A. Q. A. Q. Pretty much all the time. Why would you do that? We didn't want to share that profit with them. So there were drugs being trafficked that you wouldn't
58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. necessarily allow or put Salinas on notice? A. Q. Yes. Quite often.
Would that affect the amount of monthly if they didn't
know about the drugs? A. Q. Certainly. Did you ever drop off drugs to Powder at the cell
phone store in Oakland? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes, we did. What type of drugs did you drop off? Cocaine. What quantities? Kilos. How many times would you estimate you dropped off
cocaine to Powder at the cell phone store? A. Q. Maybe three to six times, somewhere in that range. During your time in NF drug trafficking, did you meet
someone that you knew as Red? A. Q. Yes, I did. Take a look at Exhibit 4, please. Do you recognize the person in Exhibit 4? Yes. Who is that? Red. Do you see the person you knew as Red here in court? Yes, I do.
59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Can you please describe him -- describe where he's
located and what he's wearing. A. He's to the right, I believe the first defendant at
that table with the light blue shirt. THE COURT: Mr. Stewart Hanson. Q. Red? A. I was originally introduced to him by G. G called him And He was a BY MR. HITT: How did you meet the person you knew as Record will reflect he's identified
his cousin, to which we were really skeptical.
eventually we found out that he wasn't his cousin. DJ at a strip club that was pushing dope for G. Q. What year was this when you first made Red's
acquaintance through G? A. Q. Red? A. Q. No. Were you present when drugs were distributed to Red on 2005. Did you ever engage in any drug deals personally with
occasion? A. Q. Yes. Is there a particular event in San Francisco that you
recall where drugs were handed to Red? A. Yes. I had recently purchased, I think it was -- I
was short to getting off parole when I purchased a new
60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mercedes, and we had, I think it was about two pounds of crystal, and we were on Divisadero in the Fillmore, San Francisco, we had several thousand dollars on us, we were getting ready to go out and party, me and G, and he wanted to make a quick deal. And we were going to meet Red, and I And they pulled up and
believe it was his wife at the time.
had this -- a similar Mercedes, maybe a year or two older. And we met with them, and G gave them the work. remember -- I think Red gave them $10,000 cash. Q. When you said it was -- it was two pounds of And I
methamphetamine that were handed off? A. Q. A. Yes. And you saw 10,000 or so being handed from Red to G? Yeah. I remember G counting it in the seat next to me
as we drove off. Q. A. Q. A. Q. What kind of Mercedes did you have at that time? Mercedes E500 AMG. Is that a sedan? Yes. It's economy.
And you said the vehicle you observed Red driving was
a similar Mercedes sedan? A. Q. Yes, an E500. Did you have discussions -- and do you know about when
in the time frame the two-pound deal with Red and G occurred? A. Excuse me?
61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Do you know what approximate time frame the drug deal
you just described occurred between G and Red? A. Q. A. In 2005. I can't recall exactly what month.
Did you have discussions with G about Red? Yeah, I had -MR. TEDMON: THE COURT: Objection, relevance. Sustained. If he had conversations,
that's admissible, but the contents of the conversation would be hearsay. MR. HITT: THE COURT: But the question was, "Did you have --" I know. That's why I'm just saying you
can ask him if he had conversations, but if you're going further, the objection is sustained. MR. HITT: under the -THE COURT: MR. HITT: THE COURT: I don't know. -- we discussed -I don't know, because I don't know that Your Honor, I believe that would come in
much about when and where it took place, and what the substance of the conversation was. You know, not all
conversations come in under that subsection. Q. BY MR. HITT: Did you have discussions with G about
drug trafficking with Red? A. Q. Yes, I did. About G's drug trafficking with Red?
62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Yes. I had a lot of concerns about Red's
involvement -MR. TEDMON: non-responsive. THE COURT: The answer is stricken. Objection, Your Honor, that's
In other words, you know what I'm talking about, Mr. Hitt. If they're just talking about some historical If they're talking about what
facts, then that's one thing.
is going on pursuant to the activities that we've been discussing that are the subject of the charges, then that's a different thing. We really need to know more about what
they're discussing. MR. HITT: Okay. During the time that -- well, at the
BY MR. HITT:
time that G introduced you to Red, what was G's role in the San Francisco regiment? A. Q. G was the regiment commander. And you were functioning as the regiment commander for
the East Bay? A. Q. Yes. And in the discussions that you had with G, did it --
about Red, did it relate to drugs being trafficked with Red by the San Francisco regiment? A. Yes. We -Okay. He's going to ask you another
THE COURT:
63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Red? A. It was, to my knowledge, that Red wasn't a Norteno, he question now. Q. BY MR. HITT: And in those discussions, was it about
drugs that were being trafficked that were coming in at the time you were having the discussion? In other words, drugs
coming into the San Francisco regiment? MR. TEDMON: THE COURT: Objection, it's compound. Well, look, I don't want to make a farce
out of this, I just want to make sure that we have the foundation laid. Were you talking about the business that you and G were conducting, or were you just chatting about something that might have happened? THE WITNESS: No, we were discussing the business, and
the transactions, and how we would manage the business and the transactions with each member. THE COURT: That was the context of this discussion
you're about to tell us? THE WITNESS: THE COURT: BY MR. HITT: Yes. The objection is overruled. What was the conversation with G about
had no street affiliations, he was just a white guy, quote, unquote, that worked in the strip club and was able to move some drugs for us. And I was concerned that he might be a
64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this. threat or a liability to our security, we might take a financial loss in dealing with him. that he wanted to continue to -MR. TEDMON: non-responsive. Objection. At this point it's At the time G decided
He's asking about a conversation, now he's
saying G decided to do certain things. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: Is this part of the conversation? Yes. Go ahead. I asked G did he want to continue to do
I believe some of the drugs that we were giving to Red
at that time were coming from the Yahualica cartel, that I was supplying to San Francisco, and so I had a really, you know, acute interest in making sure where they were going and who they were going to and following up on the tabs. G responded that he wanted to continue to serve Red, to build him up to a status where he would purchase enough that we could rob him. And that was kind of something I was
acceptable with in keeping him in the circle. Q. BY MR. HITT: When you say build him up with enough,
enough weight? A. Yeah.
Or what was the idea, build him up how? We wanted to be able to supply him with enough
drugs that he would eventually begin to purchase enough, maybe ten pounds or more, to make it worthwhile robbing him for it.
65 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Did that plan ever come to fruition? Did you ever
engage in a robbery of Red? A. Q. No, it did not. And during the time that you had -- you became
familiar with who Red was, did you have discussions with G about a dispute G had with Red over a motorcycle? A. Q. Yes. What did you learn from G in your conversations with G
about this dispute over the motorcycle? A. We were having discussions on how to recover some of At times, some members would come forth and say
our losses.
that a pound had been stolen, or a pound had -- excuse me -drugs had been seized in raids, or tossed out of a car, and recovering some losses. It came up that G had sold a
motorcycle, 95th Anniversary Edition Harley Davidson to Red, and Red still owed quite a bit of money on that motorcycle, and he wanted me to participate in trying to recover that bike from Red. Q. And at the time you were having these discussions with
G, do you know about when this is now? A. Q. '06. And did G still possess the pink slip for the
motorcycle? A. Q. Yes, he did. Why did he still have it if he had sold the motorcycle
66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to Red? A. Because Red had not completed his payment on the
purchase of the motorcycle. Q. A. Q. So, it was sort of collateral? Yes. And at that time, when this dispute about the debt for
the motorcycle with Red occurred, did G identify where Red was living? A. Yes. He told me that he was in Los Banos, and -- do
you want me to tell what he -Q. A. Q. Where did G say he was living? In Los Banos. And did you end up participating in any effort to try
and recover the motorcycle from Red in Los Banos? A. Q. No, I did not. When you were talking about the two-pound deal with --
between G and Red that you were present for in San Francisco, you used the term "work." A. What did you mean by that?
It's another term for -- to generalize drugs in We -- sometimes we would call it, you know, jale or
general. work. Q. work? A. Q.
It was the goods themselves. And in that context it would be the two pounds was the
Yes. And kind of skipping backwards, when you had this
67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 first meeting in Salinas with Paqui that you described early in your direct, and the initial meet and greet occurs, was your -- were there any -- was there a request for information about you personally that was presented to you? A. Q. Can you repeat that. Yes. When you had the -- back in the early time frame
that you've described, when you went down to Salinas for the first meeting with Paqui, was personal information about you gathered at that meeting? A. Yes. I believe in the first meeting that we had they
asked for, of course, in the debriefing, our prison history, our name, our number, date of birth, physical description, and also they took down some addresses and phone numbers and other information, personal information on getting a hold of us. Q. A. Q. And did you supply that information? Yes, I did. Was each member that came down with you for that
meeting required to turn over information, their names, their addresses, that sort of thing? A. Q. Yes, we were. Now, in -- have you ever been indicted in this
particular case with Mr. Diaz and the others? A. Q. No, I have not. And in October of 2008 did you get arrested for a
68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. violation of probation? A. Q. Yes, I did. After that arrest, did you agree to cooperate with law
enforcement? A. Q. Yes, I did. And is your testimony here part of that cooperation
with law enforcement? A. Yes, in part. MR. HITT: One moment, Your Honor. When you were functioning as the
BY MR. HITT:
regiment commander for the East Bay regiment, and you earlier described having a regiment bank available, what were the purposes of that regiment bank? A. To facilitate the needs and the interests of the Sometimes I would use the money to bail out Sometimes we would use it to pay for
regiment.
members or associates.
hospitals, or family relocations, in the event of emergencies. And a lot of times it was a venture fund, we
would use the money to purchase arms, or to purchase drugs for resale and return the profit to the bank. MR. HITT: THE COURT: I have no further questions, Your Honor. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to defer
the cross-examination of this witness until after the next witness testifies on direct examination. So there will be
the right to cross-examine this witness, but it will be after
69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we hear the direct testimony from the witness who is going to be called next. So, I'm going to excuse Mr. Treas for now,
and he will return at a later date. You're excused for now, Mr. Treas. you're told to return. You may call the next witness. MR. HITT: Your Honor, the next witness is actually He will be here tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. You come back when
not available today.
He's in custody in a different jurisdiction and has to be transported here from a different city. actually that we would -THE COURT: work with this. I don't care what you anticipated. We'll I anticipated
We may have to adjust the schedule a little
bit from what we talked about at the break, but we can talk about that after the jury leaves. Are there any other witnesses that you're going to call that are available today? MR. HITT: No. And after the next witness there is
only one more custodian, and Mr. Gable and I are dealing with whether that custodian is needed. THE COURT: All right. Well, I should be able to tell
you tomorrow a little bit more about the schedule and what days we may be off, and what the time frame is, but I can't tell you that right now, ladies and gentlemen. So, you're excused for the day. Come back tomorrow
70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 morning at 9 o'clock. Remember the admonition.
(Jury not present.) THE COURT: The jurors are outside the courtroom.
Mr. Hitt, I don't know how you could have assumed that you weren't going to call that witness today. You could have
assumed that it was likely you weren't going to call the witness today, but I think I commented earlier that I thought we might actually finish the government's case today, and you didn't say, no, no we can't do that. MR. HITT: So --
Well, no, the government's case can't
finish until I have this witness from Iowa, and if Mr. Gable gives me the go ahead, that's always been the issue. THE COURT: MR. HITT: THE COURT: MR. HITT: THE COURT: Some custodian from Iowa? Yes. But that wasn't the discussion we had. Yes. You talked about two cooperating
witnesses, and I was of the assumption you might finish with those today, and we talked about the scheduling. So anyway, let's get back to the scheduling. If you don't finish with your entire case on direct tomorrow, we're going to have to come in on the 9th. everybody should understand that. the 9th. So
We're not necessarily off
I do have to be at a meeting of the State Federal
Judicial Council out of town on November the 19th, so you
71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have to add that too. MR. HITT: THE COURT: to get down there. That was the afternoon, Your Honor? No, it's actually all day because I have The meeting is probably in the afternoon, And so you have to add that to the
but I have to get there.
complexities of the next few weeks. MR. BIGELOW: THE COURT: Can I have just a second with Mr. Hitt? Yes.
(Discussion held off the record.) MR. HITT: Your Honor, Mr. Bigelow wanted me to let
the Court know the next witness, the last witness aside from the custodian, will be even shorter than Mr. Treas's direct. So, the government -THE COURT: You keep talking about how short he is, I
thought maybe it was Chiquilin. MR. HITT: That's good. I like that.
I apologize to the Court, if I could have had him here -- the complexity with him is that he's in a state custodial circumstance that we don't have much control over. to be a state court order. THE COURT: That was obtained today. There has
Well, if he is a brief witness, then you
may finish tomorrow and that would allow you to stay on the schedule you talked about. I'm just saying, if you're not If you are finished, I'm
finished, we're not off on the 9th.
not going to make the defendants come back on the 9th unless
72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they want to. MR. HITT: Mr. Gable has informed me that the
custodian that would perhaps bring us here on the 9th, that we will be able to work out a stipulation. So, I'll accept
his representation and I will represent to the Court that the final witness, then, will be tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m., and I anticipate we will be done probably by 11:00 a.m. THE COURT: Now, let me make this clear. If the
defendants want to, and are ready to be begin cross-examination of either of these witnesses, they may do so either on Tuesday the 9th or on Friday the 12th. The only
reason we would not be in session on those two days would be to give the defendants time to prepare their cross-examination. If, for tactical or other reasons, they
want to begin their cross-examination on either the 9th or the 12th, they can let me know and we will do that. If they
don't want to do it on the 9th or the 12th, then the next time we have available is the 16th. And we have the 16th
plus the 18th, and then, as I told you, I've got to be out of town for this meeting. Now, if it really gets tight, and I decide that the ends of justice require me to be here on the 19th, I just won't go to that meeting and the Chief Justice of California and the Ninth Circuit can do without the pleasure of my company. So, there is that possibility.
73 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them. THE COURT: Mr. Bigelow -MR. BIGELOW: THE COURT: It's a joke. -- you are an important person. Anybody No, you don't have to. Believe me, MR. BIGELOW: Your Honor, we'll play second fiddle to
that's going to the Supreme Court -MR. BIGELOW: THE COURT: Judge -All right. No, I'm saying that if I
really think the ends of justice would require me to be here, I'll work something else out. But I just wanted to add that
because I forgot when we were laying out the schedule that I have committed. I'm the chair of one of their subcommittees
and I make a report, but somebody else could do that if I'm not there. The Ninth Circuit will surely understand if I'm
tied up in trial. Anyway, that's the schedule. Is there anything else to discuss about it? I got the government's amended or modified jury instructions, and I haven't looked at them yet, but I'm sure that I can put together the jury instructions whenever you're ready to finish and begin your arguments. As it stands, then, if the defense doesn't want to come in on the 9th or the 12th, we won't be back here after tomorrow until the 16th, and then we'll plan on the arguments
74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 beginning on December the 2nd. If we do, you and I will have
to work out whether I continue that judgment and sentence that I have in San Francisco on the 3rd or not. If you want
me to, I'll continue that so that you can go right into the rest of your arguments on Friday the 3rd of December. But
then I do have the next week, except that Friday afternoon, the 10th, I have to be off, but I'll be available on that morning. So, the following week we have the 7th. And I have to
tell you, I have the 8th as well because my commitments for Wednesdays are over by that time. And I just learned
yesterday that the one-day trial that I had committed to on December the 8th settled. on December the 8th. So, I would actually be available
I don't know if that is going to sit Some of them may But if
with the jury or not, I'd have to ask them.
have made plans to do other things on Wednesdays.
everybody else can do it, I would also be available on December the 8th. I have that flexibility.
If we're not going to be off on December the 8th, then of course we'd have the 7th, the 9th, and the morning of December 10th. MR. TEDMON: imagine it wouldn't. THE COURT: Anything else we can talk about? That should take care of it. I can't
I don't have to have this discussion with you again.
75 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 then. (Court adjourned, 3:54 p.m.) --o0o-If you finish with the direct examination of the next witness tomorrow, I will just go ahead and tell the jury about this schedule, that they're not coming back in until the 16th of November. Am I right? MR. HITT: MR. TEDMON: THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor. Yes, Your Honor. So I have to give them a little talk about
keeping an open mind. MR. WONG: And also they should not receive any
information or talk to anyone regarding the case. THE COURT: Is there anything else you wanted to
enlighten me on that? MR. WONG: THE COURT: Not in open court, Your Honor. Is there anything else you wanted to Because otherwise I'm
discuss with me in camera on that?
going to give them the regular admonition. MR. WONG: THE COURT: The regular admonition is fine. All right. We'll see you tomorrow morning
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 JUDGE: 14 CASE: 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 STATE OF CALIFORNIA COUNTY OF SACRAMENTO
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
---oOo--) )
I, KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, certify that I was the Official Court Reporter, and that I reported verbatim in shorthand writing the foregoing proceedings; that I thereafter caused my shorthand writing to be reduced to typewriting, and the foregoing pages constitute a complete, true, and correct record of said proceedings: COURT: U.S. District Court Eastern District of California Honorable WILLIAM B. SHUBB, Judge UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. LARRY SIXTO AMARO, GERARDO LOPEZ MORA, ERNEST PAUL KILLINGER, and JASON MICHAEL STEWART HANSON
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have subscribed this certificate at Sacramento, California. /s/ Kimberly M. Bennett KIMBERLY M. BENNETT CSR No. 8953, RPR, CRR, RMR

Jason Treas Testimony Nov 4, 2010 USA Eastern District

Încărcat de

Informații document

Titlu original

Drepturi de autor

Formate disponibile

Partajați acest document

Partajați sau inserați document

Opțiuni de partajare

Vi se pare util acest document?

Este necorespunzător acest conținut?

Drepturi de autor:

Formate disponibile

Jason Treas Testimony Nov 4, 2010 USA Eastern District

Încărcat de

Drepturi de autor:

Formate disponibile

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ---o0o--BEFORE THE HONORABLE WILLIAM B.

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, CSR #8953

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 For the Plaintiff:

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

1 2 GOVERNMENT WITNESSES: 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TREAS, JASON

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HITT

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

to your mouth, or sit a little closer, just to make sure we

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. can hear you. A. Q. Thank you.

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

period 2004? A. Various locations that Silk would set up to meet in

How did these juntas start?

early time period in 2004?

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

meetings? A. There was a lot of evasive driving and, you know,

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

And when you first got involved in drug trafficking

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And when you described previously, now, the meetings,

consider yourself a Norteno gang member?

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. I did. What sort of specific clique did you belong to as a

were a member of? A. It's a prison organization. It was a

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

Your Honor, I wonder if we could have Even Mr. Gable is having

Make sure you speak into the

The objection is overruled.

How does Nuestra Raza

prisons, in some main lines, where there was no NF members,

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

And in the context of the NF, were you familiar with

soldier of the NF? A. I considered myself a soldado at the disposal of the

a soldado, or as an associate of the NF, but not a member? A. Yes.

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

named Paqui? A. We went to Salinas to meet Paqui, and I was informed

Shadow, and we went to Salinas and met them.

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. I've heard it here and there, but I can't recall

exactly what it is. Q. Take a look at what's been received in evidence as

meetings were held? A. Different houses. Mister took us to one house,

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

start with the initial meeting.

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

proceed? A. Well, we would come together, and typically there

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 table, remove any electronic devices. And kind of as a act

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

do and how to do it.

Paqui and Mister.

direct authority of Silk. them and Shadow.

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

manpower in that area.

There was a wealth of resources,

black market resources available in the East Bay, and many

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420

thoroughly. Q. Now, during the Salinas meetings, were there moments

each of us to the side and have a sidebar conversation.

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-8420