Mershon and Hollingsworth Revolving Cylinder Automatic Rifle, 1855

Cowboy Action Shooting Topics > Cowboy Action Shooting Automatics? << < (3/3) P.A. Myers: Trench warfare action shooting? Bring your water-cooled machine guns and mustard gas. P.A. gcrank1: Im surprised nobody has mentioned watching the movie 'The Wild Bunch', (1969 IIRC) where Colt's 1911s and Springfield '03s were used; it certainly falls within the scope of the 'Wild West', as does the Pancho Villa/Mex revolution. It wasnt all pre 1900, just read Sixguns by Elmer Keith or stuff on the Texas Rangers. Infamous Tom Horn's escape attempt in Aug. 1903 failed because he reportedly didnt know how to release the safety on the autoloader pistol he had taken. Then there are the Savage '99s, but thats another discussion......... Rex in OTZ: 6 shot Revolving Cap and Ball FULL Automatic Rifle Mershon and Hollingsworth revolving cylinder automatic rifle. Patented in 1855. A spring mechanisim automatically fired and rotated the cylinder. The trigger could be locked in back position for full automatic fire. To wind up the spring, a ratchet lever is located just behind the receiver. Six shot percussion .40 caliber. Attached Thumbnails

The rest these firearms are manuals of some sort or nother, The Roper Shotguns were neat, the first Open Bolt shotgun of the 1800's!!

North & Savage, Middletown, Connecticut, H. S. North & Edward Savage where helped by Chauncey D. Skinner to create their revolving rifle. 6 shot percussion rifle, marked NORTH & SAVAGE, MIDDLETOWN, CONN. PTTNTED JUNE 1, 1852, CAST STEEL Rifle similar to the "Figure 8" pistol, marked E. SAVAGE, MIDDLETOWN, CT H.S. NORTH PATENTED, JUNE 17th, 1856. The Edward Brown collection has one specimen. Attached Thumbnails

North & Skinner Revolving Arms Co. North & Skinner, Middletown, Connecticut. Produced from 1856 to 1859, this revolving rifle looked much like the other revolving rifles that were being tried. One difference however was that it was not a "single-action" type where you cocked the hammer to rotate the cylinder. The North & Skinner was a levergun. Shoving the combination lever & triggerguard down cocked the hammer

and rotated the cylinder into firing position. Most were made in .44 caliber. Some .60 caliber shotguns were produced also. There were a number of different types of revolving rifles produced around this time. The biggest reason they did not last was ... the Volcanic rifle and it's offspring! Attached Thumbnails

Savage Revolving Rifle Savage Revolving Rifle 41 Cal Serial #: 1 Manufacturer: Savage Model: Revolving Type: Rifle Barrel Length: 24 inch part octagon Finish: blue Stock: walnut Description: These rifles are known by many names. They were made under the 1 June, 1852 patent of Henry S. North and Chauncy D. Skinner, so they are sometimes called "North & Skinner". They were made by the firm of North & Savage (same North with Edward S. Savage) and are sometimes called by that name. The latter firm became Savage Revolving Firearms Co. so they are most often simply called "Savage". The action of these early revolving rifles is more complicated than the later revolvers. There is a wedge behind the cylinder. When the lever below the cylinder is pulled down, it also pulls the wedge down and allows the spring around the cylinder pin to push the cylinder away from the barrel, disengaging the protruding mouth of the chambers from the barrel. When it is loose, a tooth on the wedge engages the track on the back of the cylinder causing it to turn to the next chamber. A link fastened to the lever behind the wedge cocks the hammer. When the lever is returned, the wedge forces it tight against the rear of the barrel. There are no external marks visible except the number "1" stamped on top of the receiver at the barrel junction. Vestiges of the address are barely visible in front of the rear sight. An assembly number "240" appears on the cylinder, cylinder pin, the bottom of the barrel under the cylinder pin, wedge, lever, buttplate, hammer, and right side plate internally. It also appears on the rear sight leaf but the 4 is stamped upside down. The number 114 appears on the right side of the lever and cocking link,195 on the left side plate and 69 on the trigger. The trigger and hammer both have two pivot holes so they can be assembled on another frame or frames. The different assembly numbers indicate a cleanup of factory parts or a period factory repair. The cylinder pin wedge, which goes into the slot to the rear of the recoil shield, is missing. The left wood to side plate screw, trigger spring, and trigger spring screw are also missing. The round brass patch box is mounted on the left side of the butt stock instead of the right where it is normally found. The buttplate is iron. Only a few hundred of these were made. Attached Thumbnails

Roper Repeating Rifle Co Nouvelle page 0 http://www.roperld.com/ropersylvester.htm Sylvester Ropers Steam Automobile, 1860s Sylvester Roper was an early automobile designer in America. His cars were steam powered, and he made a steam motorcycle which had to be the first motorcycle ever made, and a steam powered buggy, or automobile as they were called later. Roper was a prolific inventor, and patented many versions of his vehicles, as well as the first repeating cartridge shotgun. On 10 April 1866, Sylvester Roper of Roxbury, Mass patented a shotgun (53881) with a bolt mechanism and a revolving cylinder magazine. Cocking the hammer withdrew the breech bolt, extracting a spent cartridge form the barrel as it did so. When the hammer had been retracted, a magazine spring revolved a new cartridge into line with the chamber, pulling the trigger released the bolt to fly forward and fire the chambered round in a 'slam bang' motion. To reduce the shock, the hammer could be lowered onto the chamber and then pulled back to an intermediate position from which the cap on the cartridge-base nipple could be fired without partially extracting the case. Made originally in 16 and (later) in 12 bore by the Roper Repeating Rifle Company of Amherst Mass, the shotgun was a minor success. Most examples had a detachable choke patented in July 1868 (79861).The Roper

Sporting Arms Company, formed in Hartford in March 1869, was effectively a partnership between Christopher Spencer and Charles Billings. Production of .40 rifles and 12 bore shotguns continued into the early 1870s but never in sufficient quantity to make any real impact. Attached Thumbnails

Warren & George Evans Nouvelle page 0 The shown model is New Model, the last model, manufactured in the years 1880. Evans leave ordinary by their splendid completion, their hammer placed under the frame, but especially by their magazine, container either 28, or 34 cartridges with central percussion according to whether it is about gauge .30 Evans shorts, .30 Winchester Long or .44-40 Winchester. This tubular magazine, placed in the action, comprises a Archimedes' screw actuated by the trigger guard/lever of trigger guard. Attached Thumbnails

If only he could have sold them Joe Vincent Meigs This is an incredible rare MEIGS .50 calibre magazine rifle cartridge with a 50 round magazine. Only three ever produced and this is serial 2. One was kept by the descendants of the inventor and is now in a major collection in the US. The second is located at the Cody museum in the US. Donated by the army who received one from Meigs to be test fired. This unique prototype 50-shot breech-loading rifle, only three in existence, was invented by Joe vincent Meigs(1840-1907) under U.S. patent N 54934, issued may 22, 1866. http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20ame...meigs%20gb.htm Attached Thumbnails Navigation [0] Message Index [*] Previous page Go to full version The full version is below;

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P.A. Myers

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Automatics?
on: February 23, 2010, 04:29:30 AM

I saw a Cowboy action event on the TV and they were shootin Colt autos. Have they been drinkin cactus juice? By what stretch is that a cowboy gun? I admit I am just a spectator. Early Lugers were in use then, so were machine guns. New Service Colts and S&W model 10s were very popular double actions. Havin fun is the object, so it must be ok. It just seems odd.
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Automatics?
on: February 23, 2010, 04:29:30 AM

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Cuts Crooked

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Re: Automatics?
Reply #1 on: February 23, 2010, 11:01:54 AM

What you probably saw was a "Wild Bunch" side match. Occassionally a local club will put one of these on. It is not part of the main match and is not scored as such.
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P.A. Myers

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Re: Automatics?
Reply #2 on: February 23, 2010, 02:26:25 PM

What a fun event!

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Bart Solo

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Re: Automatics?
Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 10:43:33 AM

Actually Wild Bunch is one of the more popular SASS sanctioned activities. Here is a link to SASS' Wild Bunch web page. http://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/ Here is a link to the rules. http://www.sassnet.com/WB-Main001A.php
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jlwilliams

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Re: Automatics?
Reply #4 on: May 08, 2011, 09:40:02 AM

The OP brings up an interesting idea. There were many guns in use (some more commonly used than others) during the 19th century. Particularly toward the end. Lugers, Borchardt (sp?) and Broomhandles would all fall outside the scope of what cowboy action shooting is. They all, none the less, have a place in history that should be preserved. Given that the SASS is bearing the flag better than anybody as far as keeping the '..thrilling days of yester-year' alive, they would be a likely place to see some sort of antique shooting sport that encompases those sorts of guns. For all I know, there may be Boer War type events in South Africa, but if so I've never heard of it. Reenactments, probaly. Competative events with period guns, that I don't know. The balistics of a 30 Mauser C96 pistol and the horrable ergonomics would make it completely incompatable with a SASS 3 gun event, but I for one would love to see some sort of event where those and other oddities could be in action. I doubt that even if such a sport emerged that it would gain the popularity of the Old West events. That period and the popular notions of it are so carved into the public perception from generations of film and TV. We probably wouldn't see dozens of companies offering clones of the Broomhandle or Borchardt like we see the single action Colt clones, but it may be of interest to enough people to keep it alive as a game.
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90north

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Re: Automatics?
Reply #5 on: May 08, 2011, 12:24:52 PM

The SASS "Wild Bunch" matches are limited to .45 ACP 1911 type pistols, .40 cal or larger pistol caliber rifles and 1897 shotguns. Some local clubs allow more varied firearms. I shot one using my C-96 as both my pistol and by attaching the stock my rifle. Another CAS shooting organization, NCOWS, allows the use of pre-1900 double action revolvers.
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jlwilliams

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Re: Automatics?
Reply #6 on: May 08, 2011, 04:30:55 PM

Cool. How did you do?

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90north

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Re: Automatics?
Reply #7 on: May 11, 2011, 10:48:54 AM

"About usual", when my wife asks how I did, and I reply that way, she responds "that bad huh".
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Sir Charles deMoutonBlack

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Re: Automatics?
Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 12:11:11 AM

Quote from: jlwilliams on May 08, 2011, 09:40:02 AM The OP brings up an interesting idea. There were many guns in use (some more commonly used than others) during the 19th century. Particularly toward the end. Lugers, Borchardt (sp?) and Broomhandles would all fall outside the scope of what cowboy action shooting is. They all, none the less, have a place in history that should be preserved. Given that the SASS is bearing the flag better than anybody as far as keeping the '..thrilling days of yester-year' alive, they would be a likely place to see some sort of antique shooting sport that encompases those sorts of guns. For all I know, there may be Boer War type events in South Africa, but if so I've never heard of it. Reenactments, probaly. Competative events with period guns, that I don't know.

How about GAF, The Grand Army of the Frontier; http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/board,20.0.html

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jlwilliams

Posts: 1231 Trade Count: (2) Senior Member

Re: Automatics?
Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 07:44:36 AM

That's pretty cool. I think that as time goes on, we will see something that parallels what happened in the AMCA (Antique Motorcycle Club of America) The AMCA was created in the '50s and they defined 'antiques' as bein (I think) 30 or 35 years old. As years go by more and more stuff starts to meet that definition. I remember about ten years back there was rumbling that the Japanese bikes were starting to come of age and that would ruin the club meets. We'd be over run with Hondas. It didn't really turn out like that from what I've seen. Sure, there

are some Honda Dreams putting around the field at meets, but the Harleys, Indians, Excellsiors, Popes and all the other really old stuff is still what the bulk of the interest is among antique bike enthusiasts. I suspect we will see more of this sort of "non cowboy" events taking place along side the CAS shooting, but it will never eclipse the cowboy events. That is just so burned into our minds that no Martini and Broomhandle shoots will replce it, but those guns have their place in the sun too. Semi autos are over a hundred years old now, we are fast aproaching the centenial of the War to End All Wars. There may be a "Seargend York" course popping up at some match before long. Why not.
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P.A. Myers

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Posts: 1270

Re: Automatics?
Reply #10 on: May 17, 2011, 03:43:26 PM

Trench warfare action shooting? Bring your water-cooled machine guns and mustard gas. P.A.
Logged I am Paul, a sinner, most uncultivated and least of all the faithful, despised in the eyes of many.

gcrank1

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Re: Automatics?
Reply #11 on: December 16, 2012, 02:14:18 PM

Im surprised nobody has mentioned watching the movie 'The Wild Bunch', (1969 IIRC) where Colt's 1911s and Springfield '03s were used; it certainly falls within the scope of the 'Wild West', as does the Pancho Villa/Mex revolution. It wasnt all pre 1900, just read Sixguns by Elmer Keith or stuff on the Texas Rangers. Infamous Tom Horn's escape attempt in Aug. 1903 failed because he reportedly didnt know how to release the safety on the autoloader pistol he had taken. Then there are the Savage '99s, but thats another discussion.........
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Rex in OTZ

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Posts: 908

Re: Automatics?
Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 09:02:57 PM

6 shot Revolving Cap and Ball FULL Automatic Rifle

Mershon and Hollingsworth revolving cylinder automatic rifle. Patented in 1855. A spring mechanisim automatically fired and rotated the cylinder. The trigger could be locked in back position for full automatic fire. To wind up the spring, a ratchet lever is located just behind the receiver. Six shot percussion .40 caliber.

Attached Thumbnails

The rest these firearms are manuals of some sort or nother, The Roper Shotguns were neat, the first Open Bolt shotgun of the 1800's!!

North & Savage, Middletown, Connecticut, H. S. North & Edward Savage where helped by Chauncey D. Skinner to create their revolving rifle. 6 shot percussion rifle, marked NORTH & SAVAGE, MIDDLETOWN, CONN. PTTNTED JUNE 1, 1852, CAST STEEL Rifle similar to the "Figure 8" pistol, marked E. SAVAGE, MIDDLETOWN, CT H.S. NORTH PATENTED, JUNE 17th, 1856. The Edward Brown collection has one specimen. Attached Thumbnails

North & Skinner Revolving Arms Co.

North & Skinner, Middletown, Connecticut.

Produced from 1856 to 1859, this revolving rifle looked much like the other revolving rifles that were being tried. One difference however was that it was not a "single-action" type where you cocked the hammer to rotate the cylinder. The North & Skinner was a levergun. Shoving the combination lever & triggerguard down cocked the hammer and rotated the cylinder into firing position. Most were made in .44 caliber. Some .60 caliber shotguns were produced also. There were a number of different types of revolving rifles produced around this time. The biggest reason they did not last was ... the Volcanic rifle and it's offspring! Attached Thumbnails

Savage Revolving Rifle 41 Cal

Savage Revolving Rifle

Serial #: 1 Manufacturer: Savage Model: Revolving Type: Rifle Barrel Length: 24 inch part octagon Finish: blue Stock: walnut Description: These rifles are known by many names. They were made under the 1 June, 1852 patent of Henry S. North and Chauncy D. Skinner, so they are sometimes called "North & Skinner". They were made by the firm of North & Savage (same North with Edward S. Savage) and are sometimes called by that name. The latter firm became Savage Revolving Firearms Co. so they are most often simply called "Savage". The action of these early revolving rifles is more complicated than the later revolvers. There is a wedge behind the cylinder. When the lever below the cylinder is pulled down, it also pulls the wedge down and allows the spring around the cylinder pin to push the cylinder away from the barrel, disengaging the protruding mouth of the chambers from the barrel. When it is loose, a tooth on the wedge engages the track on the back of the cylinder causing it to turn to the next chamber. A link fastened to the lever behind the wedge cocks the hammer. When the lever is returned, the wedge forces it tight against the rear of the barrel. There are no external marks visible except the number "1" stamped on top of the receiver at the barrel junction. Vestiges of the address are barely visible in front of the rear sight. An assembly number "240" appears on the cylinder, cylinder pin, the bottom of the barrel under the cylinder pin, wedge, lever, buttplate, hammer, and right side plate internally. It also appears on the rear sight leaf but the 4 is stamped upside down. The number 114 appears on the right side of the lever and cocking link,195 on the left side plate and 69 on the trigger. The trigger and hammer both have two pivot holes so they can be assembled on another frame or frames. The different assembly numbers indicate a cleanup of factory parts or a period factory repair. The cylinder pin wedge, which goes into the slot to the rear of the recoil shield, is missing. The left wood to side plate screw, trigger spring, and trigger spring screw are also missing. The round brass patch box is mounted on the left side of the butt stock instead of the right where it is normally found. The buttplate is iron. Only a few hundred of these were made. Attached Thumbnails

Roper Repeating Rifle Co

Nouvelle page 0

http://www.roperld.com/ropersylvester.htm Sylvester Ropers Steam Automobile, 1860s

Sylvester Roper was an early automobile designer in America. His cars were steam powered, and he made a steam motorcycle which had to be the first motorcycle ever made, and a steam powered buggy, or automobile as they were called later. Roper was a prolific inventor, and patented many versions of his vehicles, as well as the first repeating cartridge shotgun. On 10 April 1866, Sylvester Roper of Roxbury, Mass patented a shotgun (53881) with a bolt mechanism and a revolving cylinder magazine. Cocking the hammer withdrew the breech bolt, extracting a spent cartridge form the barrel as it did so. When the hammer had been retracted, a magazine spring revolved a new cartridge into line with the chamber, pulling the trigger released the bolt to fly forward and fire the chambered round in a 'slam bang' motion. To reduce the shock, the hammer could be lowered onto the chamber and then pulled back to an intermediate position from which the cap on the cartridge-base nipple could be fired without partially extracting the case. Made originally in 16 and (later) in 12 bore by the Roper Repeating Rifle Company of Amherst Mass, the shotgun was a minor success. Most examples had a detachable choke patented in July 1868 (79861).The Roper Sporting Arms Company, formed in Hartford in March 1869, was effectively a partnership between Christopher Spencer and Charles Billings. Production of .40 rifles and 12 bore shotguns continued into the early 1870s but never in sufficient quantity to make any real impact. Attached Thumbnails

Warren & George Evans

Nouvelle page 0

The shown model is New Model, the last model, manufactured in the years 1880. Evans leave ordinary by their splendid completion, their hammer placed under the frame, but especially by their magazine, container either 28, or 34 cartridges with central percussion according to whether it is about gauge .30 Evans shorts, .30 Winchester Long or .44-40 Winchester. This tubular magazine, placed in the action, comprises a Archimedes' screw actuated by the trigger guard/lever of trigger guard.

Attached Thumbnails

If only he could have sold them

Joe Vincent Meigs

This is an incredible rare MEIGS .50 calibre magazine rifle cartridge with a 50 round magazine. Only three ever produced and this is serial 2. One was kept by the descendants of the inventor and is now in a major collection in the US. The second is located at the Cody museum in the US. Donated by the army who received one from Meigs to be test fired.

This unique prototype 50-shot breech-loading rifle, only three in existence, was invented by Joe vincent Meigs(1840-1907) under U.S. patent N 54934, issued may 22, 1866. http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20ame...meigs%20gb.htm Attached Thumbnails

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Graybeard Outdoors
Re: Automatics?
Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 09:02:57 PM

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