Interviewing Web VIPs: Paris Karahalios

Given the fact, that the term "shareware" has become rather
controversial during the last years (I remember reading an article on
OISV, Is it time to kill "shareware"? ), I thought what better way to get
to the bottom of this issue than to interview the people who were among
the first users of this marketing method and one of the founders of the
Shareware Industry Awards Foundation - and so I’m grateful that Paris
Karahalios agreed to talk to me.

Paris Karahalios is one of the first software vendors to sell its products using shareware
as a marketing method. He has an active implication in software organizations and he is
the author of the As-Easy-As, a spreadsheet software product succesfully sold all around
the world. He also acted as an advisor and resource person for the creation of the
European Software Conference . In recognition of his efforts, he was given in 2004 the
Shareware Industry Lifetime Achievement award.

Adriana Iordan: This year was the 17th edition of the Software Industry Conference.
As one of the five founders of the conference , can you tell us which is the difference
between how the conference was perceived 17 years ago and how it is perceived now?
What's the success recipe?

Paris Karahalios: The first conference was the brain child of Bob Ostrander, it was
funded by his company, Public Brand Software , and was really an opportunity of some
people in the shareware industry to get together and meet each other - more like a
schmooze. It was not even called a conference, it was the Summer Shareware Seminar
(SSS).

Although there were impromptu panels where 4-5 people shared their knowledge and
experience with everyone, it was very casual, and very exciting - at the same time,
because we all got to meet people that we had only read about, up to that point.

I don't think too many of us got much sleep for the 3 days of the first SSS. We all had so
much to learn from each other, that we stayed up till 3:00 - 4:00 in the morning, in the
foyer, or someone's room, just talking, listening, learning... You could feel the energy.

The conference has grown over the years, to a much more structured event, aimed at
providing as much value to the attendees, as possible. I believe the conference is now
perceived as the premier event of the industry, and it is starting to expand and include
micro-ISV's in general, not only those strictly associated with shareware.
Although dozens of people have helped make the event successful, I have to mention the
two people that " I " believe were instrumental in steering the conference from the
informal get-together of 17 years ago, to the big classy event it is today. One of them was
Randy MacLean, one of the co-founders of SIAF, and the other was Donna Rintamaki
(Trujillo), a SIAF Board member emeritus.

Success recipe? Hmm, I wish it were that simple... As with everything else, lots of hard
work, but above all, passion! The 5-member volunteer board collectively spends
thousands of hours each year, planning and managing the event. Their passion for it and
the constant support from all the sponsors and speakers each year, is the recipe.

Adriana Iordan: Do you have any feedback on the other software/shareware

conferences held in Russia or Europe? How do they compare to SIC?

Paris Karahalios: We do get some feedback on other conferences, and I am also an

advisor to the European Software Conference (ESWC), so I get some "extra" feedback
regarding that event. It's hard to compare the conferences to each-other. I think that each
conference is a success in its own right. There was a lot more chatter about the Russian
conference , in years past, than recently, and I don't know what that really means.

The ESWC, is closer in structure to the SIC, and appears to be steadily growing and
attracting more attendees each year, with "very" positive feedback! However, as I said
earlier, it's hard to compare the different conferences, as each has its own character and
flavor.

Adriana Iordan: Since you have been one of the first software vendors who used the
shareware model, can you tell us which is the difference between how shareware was
perceived 15 years ago and how it is seen now? Have your expectations been confirmed
in regard to the impact of this concept on the software business?

Paris Karahalios: You touched a nerve. The perception of shareware has indeed
changed, significantly. 15 years ago, although still only a small percentage of users would
register and pay for software distributed through shareware, most knew what shareware
really meant, and were making a conscious decision to register/pay for a specific software
product, or not. Fifteen years ago, a good percentage of PC users were still "hackers" of
sorts, and they were aware of the "sharing-but-having-to-pay" concept.

The new "internet culture" has changed all that. Most users, nowadays, expect to be able
to download "your" program from the internet and use it for free. Why not, they can do
that with so many other programs! What this means, is that the developer/vendor has to
become more creative in convincing trial users to pay for the product. It's a challenge,
but not impossible. I don't want to give away other people's secrets, but there were a
couple of sessions in this year's conference, in Denver, dealing exactly with that subject.
Innovative ways of getting paid for software you distribute as shareware/trialware.
As to whether my expectations have been confirmed, yes and no. I often think of what
Steve Lee , one of the first shareware disk vendors from the UK told me, many years
ago, regarding shareware (it eventually became the logo for his company's letterhead).
"All software will be sold this way, someday". Nowadays, you can download evaluation
versions of Microsoft software! Who would have thought that Steve Lee's prediction was
right on the money! On the other hand, I did expect that more computer users would
understand that they need to pay for trial software, if they continue to use it, and I am not
certain that it is happening.

Adriana Iordan: I know you run your own company and you were among first to use
the shareware marketing method to sell your software products. Was there a moment
when you thought you should have given up and closed Trius Inc.? What did you do
when you didn't have any clients?

Paris Karahalios: We developed software products that we marketed in many different

ways (direct mail, resellers, private label, retail,...) including the shareware marketing
method. I have had my share of frustrating moments, in the last 21 years of running
TRIUS Inc , and although in the heat of the moment I sometimes thought "I wish I just
worked for someone else, and let them have the headaches", each time I quickly realized
that TRIUS, Inc. is part of me.

So, not really, I haven't seriously thought of shutting down the company... When we
didn't have any clients, and were not busy, I used the extra time I had, since by definition
we were not busy, to think of what else TRIUS could do, to break out of the tough spot
we might have been in.

Adriana Iordan: Can you tell us a little more about this? How it all started?

Paris Karahalios: A lot of this information is public knowledge, and has been posted in
numerous forums, as part of the SIC/SIAF history , so I will try not bore you with too
many details. I was working in the Nuclear industry, in the early 80's, spending lots of
time developing and adopting mathematical models for mainframe computer solutions,
when the company I was working for purchased their first IBM PCs. I used the original
IBM PC 5150, with the dual full-size floppy drives once, and I was hooked. I started
porting some of the mainframe solutions to the PC. In one of the company's PC User
Group meetings (the company was large enough to have a few of these), I met David
Schulz, who was also a PC enthusiast and "excellent" programmer and we became good
friends.

A year or so later, while using a spreadsheet prototype program, that Dave was working
on, to analyze some of the Chernobyl accident data, that I was working with, we decided
to form TRIUS Inc (we even asked for a formal written release form the company's
lawyers to do so - doing everything by the book). The intent was to market a Dot Matrix
Printer utility program we had developed, and also turn the spreadsheet program (As-
Easy-As) into a full product for users that could not afford Lotus 1-2-3.

Soon after TRIUS, Inc. was formed, there was a lot of interest in As-Easy-As, so we
abandoned our printer utility program and concentrated on the spreadsheet. I was familiar
with the shareware concept, having been a user of PC-Write for years, by then, and since
our marketing budget was about $0, I realized that the only way for us to distribute the
program was as shareware.

We did that, and started sending shareware disks to disk vendors, produced a printed
bound manual, nice glossy disk labels, etc. Orders/registrations for As-Easy-As started
coming in faster than we expected. We used to alternate with Dave, fulfilling the orders.
He would handle them for a couple of months, until he got tired, and then I would do it,
until we switched gain, and again,... It was hard to have full time jobs, and try to build
this business on the side. We got very little sleep in those days.

It soon became too much for us to handle, so we rented office space, and started hiring
people to take care of the orders, provide support, etc. We also hired another friend - from
the same company we all worked for, Dave Leonard, to manage the office. A couple of
years later, I had to quit my job and focus all my attention to TRIUS, and not much later,
David Schulz had to also quit his job and come work for TRIUS full time.

Again, without too much detail, As-Easy-AS was very successful, the program was
published in English, German, Spanish, French, Chinese, Japanese, Portuguese, Italian
and the full product was being sold through partner vendors in 28 countries around the
world. We also took advantage of our scientific/engineering formal training and
developed a CAD product, Draft Choice, as well as a 3D modeling product and other
derivative products.

In the early 90's, we got involved with mapping, at the beginning developing mapping
applications for other companies to private label, and eventually developing mapping
technology came to be our main activity. We currently develop end-user mapping
applications (Precision Mapping Streets and Traveler) and mapping SDKs (MapOCX
Pro, MapTivate, etc.)

Adriana Iordan: Which are the three marketing outlets for your products that you found
most useful in leading to conversions?

Paris Karahalios: That's a tough one. However, what I can tell you is that our most
successful ventures have been when we admitted that we did not understand the markets
outside the USA and started partnering with local companies in each country, giving them
exclusive rights and maximum latitude in marketing our products in their respective
markets. We let them decide how they would market the products, set their own pricing,
etc. and we did all we could to support their decisions.
My motto always was that it's hard enough to understand the "shareware market" here,
how could we aver expect to understand how it worked in different countries, different
cultures, etc.

Adriana Iordan: What are the common problems software vendors using the shareware
as marketing method face today from your point of view?

Paris Karahalios: The common issues I believe software authors marketing their own
products face, today, are:

1. Competition with the plethora of freeware, some of which is getting to be of

pretty good quality,
2. Identifying a niche market to develop a product for.
3. The age old problem of convincing users to pay for the software, once you are
able to get it to them. I believe things were a bit easier when we got into the
business, 20+ years ago.

The market was not as crowded, and it was much easier to identify segments of the
market that were begging for new applications. So, in a way, we might have been at the
right place at the right time, whereas new authors entering the market have to work at it a
bit harder.

Adriana Iordan: Is there a piece of advice you would like to offer a software author just
starting their business?

Paris Karahalios: I guess... Don't give up, and approach everything with the
professionalism that would be characteristic of a bigger company. I still remember what
Marshall Magee , one of the first shareware developers to make a million dollars from
shareware (back in the 90's) told a group of us at one of the first SSS meetings.

"I used to answer the phone using different voices and different names, when people
called for sales or support, so that they would think that they were dealing with a stable
company with many employees, rather than with a "one-man-show".

Perceptions are very important. Have procedures in place for doing things, releasing
upgrades, tracking support problems, tracking sales, etc., rather than doing it on the back
of the envelope. Make sure you present yourself and your product in the best light
possible. Don't be afraid to spend time and (some) money to make whatever you do
appear professional.

Even in today’s "casual culture", many of the people that will be willing to pay for your
product, will form an opinion based on what they see and the opinion they form - they
don't know you personally. That still holds true, in particular with corporate buyers. So,
show them the best you can afford, you will not regret it.
Adriana Iordan: When was the first time you heard about Avangate and where? Can you
give us an advice for the future to succeed as an e-commerce provider!

Paris Karahalios: I first heard of Avangate last year, at the SIC. All were good things.
The only piece of advice I could offer is, be responsive to the authors. Let them know if
there is a problem, tell them that you'll fix it, etc. Don't ignore their calls for help or
formation. That has been one of the issues authors complain about publicly, over the
years. Be responsive and keep them in the loop.

Adriana Iordan: Paris, thank you for your interview and we promise to keep up the good
work and flexibility for our clients!

Published date: August 10, 2007

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