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2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-24 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 48 of 48 Pg ID 4037
Exhibit 11
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 1 of 16 Pg ID 4038
Plaintiffs,
VS.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official capacity
as Governor of the state of Michigan
Defendant.
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKLY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DODAK BLOSS and
GERARDO ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER
and MICHELLE JOHNSON,
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH
DECLARATION OF TIMOTHY J. DOLEHANTY
I, TIMOTHY J. DOLEHANTY, hereby declare under penalty of perjury:
1. I am the Controller/Administrator for Ingham County (the "County"). I have worked for
the County since July, 2013. In my capacity as Controller/Administrator, I am the chief financial
and administrative officer of the county. Previously, I served as Administrator/Controller for
Isabella County from 2004 to 2013, Controller for Chippewa County from 2001 to 2004, and
Administrator for Wexford County from 1999 to 2001. I have personal knowledge of the facts
contained in this Declaration except where they are stated to be upon information and belief. As
to those facts that are stated to be upon information and belief', I believe them to be true.
1
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 2 of 16 Pg ID 4039
INDIVIDUALS RECEIVING BENEFITS FROM INGHAM COUNTY
2. Ingham County as of January 1, 2014 had a total of 1,053 employees eligible to
participate in group health insurance plan(s) through the County, either on an individual basis or
on a family basis in the case of employees who enroll family members in the group plans.
3. 798 County employees have elected to participate in the County's group health insurance
plans. A total of 1,977 individuals are insured through the group health plans made available to
County employees and their families.
4. Ingham County began providing health care benefits to same-sex domestic partners of its
Managerial/Confidential employee group and several of its bargaining units in 2003. In order to
comply with the Michigan Supreme Court's ruling in National Pride at Work v. Governor, the
County terminated domestic partner coverage as of July 31, 2008. In August of 2008 Ingham
County instituted a policy of offering "Other Qualified Adult" benefits to its employees. This
benefits program allowed each eligible employee to enroll someone other than a spouse, a
dependent as defined by the Internal Revenue Service, or a child, in the County's health care
plans. This other enrolled individual was referred to as an Other Qualified Adults ("OQA").
5. In order to qualify for this benefit, the OQA and the County employee both were required
to meet a number of criteria. Specifically, the OQA was required to be at least 21 years of age,
mentally competent to consent to a contract, ineligible to inherit from the County employee
under Michigan's laws of intestate succession, ineligible for coverage under any other County
employee or retiree medical benefits plan, and ineligible for coverage under any other
comparable medical plan (such as Medicare or another employer). Both the OQA and associated
employee were also required to be unmarried, to attest that they had shared a residence for at
least 18 consecutive months immediately prior to the start of the coverage, and to not be related
2
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 3 of 16 Pg ID 4040
to a degree close enough to preclude their marriage in Michigan. Finally, the OQA and
employee were required to prove their financial interdependence with one another.
6. As of January 1, 2014, the language specifically authorizing the OQA benefit was not
included in the following collective bargaining agreements: Fraternal order of Police (FOP) 9-1-
1 Dispatchers, FOP Animal Control, FOP Supervisors, FOP Corrections, Ingham County
Employees Associate (ICEA) Friend of the Court Crew Leaders, and ICEA Ingham County
Employee Association Park Rangers. The total number of employees eligible for health
insurance in these collective bargaining units is 163.
7. Of the 798 employees explicitly authorized to add OQAs to their health insurance
benefits, only five had done so as of January 1, 2014. The participation rate, meaning the
number of employees who had enrolled OQAs relative to the total number of County employees
specifically eligible to do so, was only 0.006%.
8. Of the five OQAs County employees enrolled in health insurance coverage, two were of
the same sex as those employees. In other words, out of 798 County employees specifically
eligible to enroll OQAs in health insurance benefits, only two or 0.003%, enrolled OQA5 of the
same sex in their plans.
9. Ingham County annually conducts an open enrollment period for its employee benefit
plans and enters into contractual agreements with its health insurers for the ensuing calendar year
based on the results of that open enrollment period. Accordingly, if provisions of the Domestic
Partner Benefits Restriction Act become permanent, OQA benefits will terminate as the various
collective bargaining agreements expire.
3
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 4 of 16 Pg ID 4041
ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS OF OQA BENEFITS
10. When Ingham County began offering domestic partner benefits in 2003 and then replaced
that program with OQA benefits in 2008, it was required to invest staff time in administrative
tasks related to the initiation of the new benefits program. This included time spent creating the
requisite forms and other documents necessary to institute the benefits programs, notification to
the County's employees and human resources and financial services personnel who oversee the
administration of benefits, and changes to the payroll system so that the benefits could be
appropriately accounted for and reported as imputed taxable income to the employee. However,
the staff time required to make these changes was minimal, and did not result in appreciable
expense to the County. In addition, similar minimal administrative costs may be incurred in
order to once again change the existing benefits system if the County is forced to discontinue the
OQA program in the future.
11. Like the initiation costs expended in 2003 and updated in 2008, administrative costs
associated with Ingham County's provision of OQA benefits are de minimis. Given the small
numbers of participants, the staff time spent processing applications for OQA benefits and
administering the program on an ongoing basis have been insignificant.
COST OF INSURANCE BENEFITS FOR OQAs
12. Currently, Ingham County provides health care benefits to the vast majority of its
employees and their families through a single insurance carrier, Physicians Health Plan of Mid-
Michigan ("PHP"). In addition, 54 Sheriff s Office employees and their dependents are covered
through a different carrier and plan, COPS Trust. Overall, county employees contribute
approximately 20% of the health care premiums.
4
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 5 of 16 Pg ID 4042
13. The total cost to Ingham County of providing health coverage to employees and other
beneficiaries for the year 2014 will be approximately $10,035,000. The projected average total
cost to the County of providing health coverage will be approximately $12,575 per covered
person for 2014. The total projected cost to the County of providing health insurance to five
OQAs for the year 2014 will be $22,163 or 0.002% of total expenditures on health insurance for
the year.
14. The County offers three different plan options through our main insurer, PHP. The
insurer calculates insurance premiums for Ingham County's insurance plans by category, and the
premiums paid by the County are calculated based on the total number of covered employees and
other beneficiaries. The County's cost to provide health insurance in our highest cost plan to one
employee is $6,095. The County's cost to provide coverage to an employee plus one additional
person in that plan is $13,363. The County's cost to provide coverage to an employee and
multiple family members in that plan is $15,671. The insurer does not distinguish among
different enrollment categories or demographic groups in setting these rates, and thus charges the
same premium for an OQA as it does for a spouse.
15. Ingham County has additionally allowed employees to enroll OQAs in dental insurance
and vision insurance benefit plans if they so choose. However, the County is self-insured for
dental and vision coverage, and charges back its employer costs based on one set rate, not
dependent on the addition of OQAs or other family members to coverage. In other words,
employees' decision to enroll OQAs in dental and vision insurance plans has no impact on the
budgeted costs of those plans to the County.
5
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 6 of 16 Pg ID 4043
16. Ingham County reports the value of benefits provided to an employee's OQA as income
imputed to the employee for purposes of state and federal taxes on the on the value of the OQAs'
benefits.
SOURCE OF FUNDS FOR OQA BENEFITS
17. In 2012 the County collected approximately $140.53 million in revenues (excluding
interfund transfers and the Medical Care Facility). These County revenues included the
following: $38.5 million (25.9%) from state sources (including state revenue sharing payments);
$10.6 million (7.1%) from federal sources; $8.5 million (5.7%) from Medicaid and Medicare;
$62.0 million (41.8%) from local property taxes; $29.6 million (19.9%), in Charges for Services;
and $9.0 million (6.1%) from other sources. Sources of funding for benefits provided to each
County employee (and other individuals covered through that employee) vary depending on the
employee's role in County government.
BENEFITS TO INGHAM COUNTY OF PROVIDING OQA COVERAGE
18. In February 2008, the Ingham County Board of Commissioners passed a resolution
initiating the OQA benefits program. A copy of the resolution is attached as Exhibit "A."
19. In their February 2008 resolution, the County Commissioners noted that the County is
committed to providing its residents access to health care, and that extending coverage to the
OQAs of employees furthered this goal.
20. In November 2011, the Ingham County Board of Commissioners passed a resolution
urging Governor Rick Snyder to veto then-pending bills HB 4770 and HB 4771. A copy of this
resolution is attached as Exhibit "B." HB 4770, otherwise known as the Domestic Partner
Benefits Restriction Act, was later signed by the Governor and took effect as Public Act 297 of
6
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 7 of 16 Pg ID 4044
2011 which obligated the County to discontinue its practice of providing benefits to other
qualified adults.
21. In their November 2011 resolution, the County Commissioners noted that "the extension
of benefits to domestic partners is an increasing trend in the private and public sector both
nationally and internationally..." They also opined that the proposed legislation would create
difficulty "recruiting the new employees with the appropriate level of skill, training, and
experience necessary to replace those lost in the exodus that would result from this legislation..."
22. The County Commissioners further stated in their November 2011 resolution that "the
intention of this legislation represents nothing less than an unconscionable attack on the rights of
Michigan's gay and lesbian citizens, by purposefully and disproportionately affecting the ability
of individuals of a minority sexual orientation to access affordable healthcare and other
benefits..."
23. In addition, the County Commissioners predicted in their November 2011 resolution that
"if this legislation were signed into law, Ingham County would be construed to be a less
desirable employer to potential employees."
24. In July, 2013 a Federal judge issued a preliminary injunction against enforcement of the
Domestic Partner Benefits Restrictioh Act.
25. In August 2013, the Ingham County Board of Commissioners passed a resolution to
authorize immediate reinstatement of health insurance benefits for other qualified adults using
the same criteria in place prior to the passage of the Domestic Partner Benefits Restriction Act.
A copy of this resolution is attached as Exhibit "C."
26. Ingham County recruits employees for many positions that private sector employers
recruit for as well. Administrative assistants, information technology professions and
7
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 8 of 16 Pg ID 4045
administrators, human resources professionals, maintenance workers, nurses, doctors, attorneys,
and numerous other types of workers are employed both by the County and by private sector
employers in Michigan.
27. Providing OQA benefits helps the County to retain qualified individuals once it has hired
them. As of early 2014, five employees were taking advantage of the OQA benefits, of whom up
to two may have been providing coverage to their same-sex domestic partners. The loss of this
benefit is, in effect, a loss of income for these employees' families, and in some cases may leave
employees' family members without access to any health insurance coverage. There is a risk
that these employees will seek other employment that can provide better benefits for the
employees and their families.
28. Other major employers in Ingham County that currently make benefits available to the
same-sex domestic partners of some or all of their employees include General Motors, the State
of Michigan, and Michigan State University.
29. Ingham County perceives OQA benefits as an effective investment. The County does not
wish to terminate these benefits, although it may be forced to cease providing benefits to
employees' OQAs as a consequence of the Domestic Partner Benefits Restriction Act.
30. Ending OQA benefits for Ingham County employees would not impact the amount of
State money the County receives. Any cost savings associated with an involuntary termination
of OQA benefits to the five employees resulting from the Domestic Partner Benefits Restriction
Act would accrue to the County or potentially to the federal government, not to the state.
Ingham County would prefer to continue investing in OQA benefits rather than accrue these
negligible, putative cost savings.
8
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 9 of 16 Pg ID 4046
TIMOTHY J. DOLEHANTY
In accordance with 28 U.S.C. 1746 I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is
true and correct. Executed this 27 th day of January, 2014.
9
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 10 of 16 Pg ID 4047
Exhibit 1.A
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 11 of 16 Pg ID 4048
ADOPTED - NOVEMBER 8, 2011
Agenda Item No. 6
Introduced by the County Services Committee of the:
INGHAM COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
RESOLUTION CALLING FOR THE GOVERNOR TO REFUSE TO ENACT
THE PUBLIC EMPLOYEE DOMESTIC PARTNER BENEFITS
RESTRICTION ACT
RESOLUTION #11-340
WHEREAS, the Michigan House of Representatives and Senate recently passed HB 4770, the
Public Employee Domestic Partner Benefits Restriction Act, and HB 4771, an amendment to
1947 PA 336; and
WHEREAS, the extension of benefits to domestic partners is an increasing trend in the private
and public sector both nationally and internationally; and
WHEREAS, prohibiting the collective bargaining for domestic partner benefits would affect a
hostile, anti-union environment that would be prohibitive for recruiting the new employees with
the appropriate level of skill, training, and experience necessary to replace those lost in the
exodus that would result from this legislation; and
WHEREAS, the intention of this legislation represents nothing less than an unconscionable
attack on the rights of Michigan's gay and lesbian citizens, by purposefully and
disproportionately affecting the ability of individuals of a minority sexual orientation to access
affordable healthcare and other benefits; and
WHEREAS, if this legislation were signed into law, Ingham County's policies regarding its
employees and the benefits packages that it extends to them would be affected; and
WHEREAS, if this legislation were signed into law, Ingham County would be construed to be a
less desirable employer to potential employees.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Ingham County Board of Commissioners calls on
Governor Rick Snyder to veto the Public Employee Domestic Partner Benefits Restriction Act.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the County Clerk shall send copies of this resolution to
Governor Rick Snyder, the Ingham County State Legislative Delegation, and the Michigan
Association of Counties.
COUNTY SERVICES: Yeas: De Leon, Copedge, Celentino, Schor, Dragonetti
Nays: Vickers Absent: None Approved 11/01/11
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 12 of 16 Pg ID 4049
Exhibit 1.B
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 13 of 16 Pg ID 4050
ADOPTED - FEBRUARY 26, 2008
Agenda Item No. 10
Introduced by the County Services and Finance Committees of the:
INGHAM COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING OFFERING OTHER QUALIFIED ADULT BENEFITS
TO MANAGERIAL/CONFIDENTIAL EMPLOYEES
RESOLUTION #08-042
WHEREAS, Ingham County is committed to providing access to healthcare to its residents; and
WHEREAS, flexibility in providing benefits to non-traditional households contributes to
meeting this goal; and
WHEREAS, the Controller, Benefits and Insurance staff and the County Attorney have
developed eligibility criteria which clearly defines the requirements for participation.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that Other Qualified Adult (OQA) benefits for
Managerial/Confidential employees be provided no later than August 1, 2008.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Managerial/Confidential Personnel Manual shall be
updated to incorporate a revised Health Insurance Program.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, a special open enrollment period shall be held to allow eligible
dependents to enroll into the health plan of their choice.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Board Chairperson and County Clerk are authorized to
sign appropriate documents after review as to form by the County Attorney, as needed.
COUNTY SERVICES: Yeas: Nolan, De Leon, Copedge, Soule, Grebner
Nays: Severino Absent: None Approved 2/19/08
FINANCE: Yeas: Grebner, Hertel, Weatherwax-Grant
Nays: Dougan Absent: Celentino, Schor Approved 2/20/08
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 14 of 16 Pg ID 4051
Exhibit 1.0
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 15 of 16 Pg ID 4052
ADOPTED - AUGUST 27, 2013
Agenda Item No. 11
Introduced by the County Services and Finance Committees of the:
INGHAM COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
RESOLUTION TO REAFFIRM THAT HEALTH INSURANCE BENEFITS WILL
BE PROVIDED
TO EMPLOYEE'S OTHER QUALIFIED ADULTS
RESOLUTION # 13 - 339
WHEREAS, Ingham County has previously provided health insurance benefits to employee's
other qualified adults; and
WHEREAS, the State of Michigan passed Public Act 297 in 2011 which no longer allowed
municipalities to provide these benefits; and
WHEREAS, On July 1, 2013, a Federal judge issued a preliminary injunction against the
enforcement of Public Act 297.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Ingham County Board of Commissioners grants
authorization to the immediate reinstatement of health insurance benefits for other qualified
adults using the same criteria in place prior to the passage of PA 297.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Controller/Administrator is authorized to make the
necessary budget adjustments as required.
COUNTY SERVICES: Yeas: Koenig, Celentino, Holman, Nolan, Tsernoglou, Maiville
Nays: None Absent: De Leon Approved 8/20/13
FINANCE: The Finance Committee will meet on 8/22/13.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-25 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 16 of 16 Pg ID 4053
Exhibit 12
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 1 of 11 Pg ID 4054
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 2 of 11 Pg ID 4055
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 3 of 11 Pg ID 4056
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 4 of 11 Pg ID 4057
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 5 of 11 Pg ID 4058
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 6 of 11 Pg ID 4059
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 7 of 11 Pg ID 4060
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 8 of 11 Pg ID 4061
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 9 of 11 Pg ID 4062
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 10 of 11 Pg ID 4063
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-26 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 11 of 11 Pg ID 4064
Exhibit 13
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-27 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 1 of 35 Pg ID 4065
Page 1
1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
2
SOUTHERN DIVISION
3
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4
)
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL )
5
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE )
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and )
6
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK BLOSS and)
GERARDO ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER)
7
and MICHELLE JOHNSON, )
)
8
Plaintiffs, )
)
9
-vs- )File No.
)2:12-cv-10038
10
RICHARD SNYDER, in his )JUDGE LAWSON
official capacity as Governor )MAG. HLUCHANIUK
11
of the State of Michigan, )
)
12
Defendant. )
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
13
14
D E P O S I T I O N
15
of DAVID COMSA, a witness called by Defendant, taken
16
before Melinda S. Nardone, Certified Shorthand Reporter
17
and Notary Public, at 2555 South State Street, Ann
18
Arbor, Michigan, on Thursday, February 13, 2014, noticed
19
for the hour of 10:00 a.m.
20
21
HECKAMAN & NARDONE, INC.
22
Certified Shorthand Reporters
P.O. Box 27603
23
Lansing, Michigan 48909
(517) 349-0847
24
Fax: (517) 244-0805
msnardone5@gmail.com
25
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-27 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 2 of 35 Pg ID 4066
Page 2
1
APPEARANCES:
2
KIRKLAND & ELLIS, LLP
300 North LaSalle
3
Chicago, Illinois 60654
By
4
DEBRA LEFLER, J.D.
5
On behalf of Plaintiffs.
6
MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF ATTORNEY GENERAL
State Operations Division
7
525 West Ottawa Street
2nd Floor
8
Lansing, Michigan 48909
By
9
ROCK WOOD, J.D.
10
On behalf of Defendant.
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-27 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 3 of 35 Pg ID 4067
Page 8
1
MR. WOOD: Okay, I will try not to be too
2
ponderous, but I'll try to read the titles of everything
3
as I use it.
4
MS. LEFLER: Okay.
5
(Whereupon Deposition Exhibit No. 1
6
marked for identification.)
7
BY MR. WOOD:
8
Q. So we've marked Exhibit 1. Is that the current
9
version or has it changed in any way?
10
A. That is the current version.
11
Q. So nothing's changed since March of 2012,
12
correct?
13
A. That is correct.
14
Q. Okay. And is there any other document that sets
15
forth the current other eligible adult benefit criteria
16
or terms, any other written product that we could look
17
at?
18
A. To my knowledge this is the sum -- this is the
19
totality of it.
20
Q. And were you involved in passing this other
21
eligible adult benefits?
22
A. I was involved with outside counsel to prepare
23
this document.
24
Q. And was there a vote of any sort that was taken
25
to implement this policy?
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-27 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 4 of 35 Pg ID 4068
Page 9
1
A. I don't recall.
2
Q. If there was a vote, would it be the school board
3
that would vote on that or would it be some other group?
4
A. It would be the school board if there was a vote.
5
Q. But you can't remember if it was an
6
administrative act or a vote by the board or some other
7
act?
8
A. Yes, I don't recall.
9
Q. And do you know if there was any study or
10
information gathered during the process that this policy
11
was developed as the rationale for the policy?
12
A. Well, prior to this other eligible adult policy
13
we had a policy, as I recall, it was the other qualified
14
adult. And then I think there was a court ruling, I
15
think it was a Kalamazoo case, and there was the
16
marriage act, I believe, and the court set forth some
17
guidelines about what could or could not be provided to
18
employees. And so as a result of that I worked with
19
outside counsel to develop the otherwise eligible adult
20
benefit that we believed complied with the court ruling.
21
So that's the study, if you will, that we did.
22
Q. So there wasn't a survey of either the board or
23
the parents or of some industry or social study that was
24
used specifically for the other eligible adult benefit
25
policy?
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-27 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 5 of 35 Pg ID 4069
Page 17
1
questions that they would like someone to be able to
2
testify about, and there are ten of those. And Exhibit
3
Number 2 corresponds to some of those, correct?
4
A. That is correct.
5
Q. Okay. Can we -- can you explain for us how
6
Exhibit 2 corresponds to the deposition notice?
7
A. Sure. If you'd look at Exhibit Number 2, those
8
should correlate like, for instance, number one
9
asks -- number one on Deposition Exhibit 3, the notice
10
of deposition, requests that someone testify to the
11
rationale and/or purpose of the school's other qualified
12
adult criteria. And if you look over to Exhibit Number
13
2 it says July 2009 is when the OQA was involved and
14
there's a note for me to detail the rationale. Of
15
course Mr. Gangi didn't provide that. And as you go
16
through each number the information requested in the
17
notice of dep should be reflected in Exhibit Number 2.
18
Q. And let's just cover number one while we're
19
there.
20
A. Sure.
21
Q. It requests the rationale and/or purpose for the
22
school's other qualified adult criteria and policy by
23
which medical insurance benefits are provided to
24
qualified domestic partners of the Ann Arbor public
25
school employees. Could you tell us what the rationale
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-27 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 6 of 35 Pg ID 4070
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1
and/or purpose was?
2
A. Yeah, the rationale in Ann Arbor, prior to me
3
arriving, there was a domestic partner benefit which
4
subsequently morphed into the otherwise qualified adult
5
policy and now the current otherwise eligible adult
6
policy, and it's the philosophy of the Ann Arbor Board
7
of Education to provide medical benefits to all eligible
8
employees regardless of their race or sex or sexual
9
preference. We found that in Ann Arbor we have a policy
10
against discrimination based on sex or sexual
11
orientation and to have a diverse qualified workplace
12
where we can attract qualified diverse personnel to work
13
here. It's the feeling of the Ann Arbor Board of
14
Education that to provide benefits to all of our
15
employees who are eligible is the right thing to do.
16
Q. And do you know if there was any economic study
17
done in terms of either the cost or the -- a study of
18
the ability to compete, any kind of survey or analysis
19
that would show that they couldn't get enough people to
20
apply for positions in the absence of this type of
21
policy, anything along those lines?
22
A. None that I conducted. I don't know if any was
23
conducted prior to me arriving with those earlier
24
policies. I do know that the University of Michigan,
25
which is probably the largest employer in Washtenaw
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1
County, provides those benefits and we compete in a
2
general sense with, you know, some of the candidates
3
that they maybe have openings for. We do attract
4
teachers from all over and other staff and I know that
5
those benefits are often provided in the private sector
6
and it's our feeling that to be competitive that we
7
treat all our employees equally.
8
Q. Other than a general feeling of trying to be
9
competitive, you're not aware of any empirical data or
10
study or analysis that the school did or the school
11
district did that would support the policy, for example,
12
they weren't getting enough people to apply for open
13
positions or something along those lines?
14
A. I do know that I think -- I think some of the
15
plaintiffs are our employees and they indicated that
16
they would have to leave our employment if the benefits
17
were taken away because they needed the coverage.
18
Q. Any other, for instance, study or empirical data
19
of any sort?
20
A. I did no study.
21
Q. Are you aware of any such study or empirical
22
data?
23
A. I am not.
24
Q. And do you know what the impact or effect would
25
be of the Affordable Health Care Act, for example, on
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Page 20
1
the employees that you mentioned, whether they could or
2
their partner could obtain benefits under that act such
3
that they would not need benefits under the otherwise
4
eligible adult policy?
5
A. I think all of our employees who are eligible for
6
coverage would get that coverage through us and not be
7
forced to elect coverage under the Affordable Health
8
Care Act, but I don't know what is available, it seems
9
to be changing every day. So the answer to your
10
question is I don't know.
11
Q. Okay.
12
A. How is that?
13
Q. Fair enough. Just to go back to one of your
14
statements.
15
A. Sure.
16
Q. You said that you as the school district compete
17
with the University of Michigan for some candidates.
18
What would be those kinds of candidates that you would
19
be competing with the University of Michigan?
20
A. Well, for instance, they have a general counsel's
21
office. I'm sure that if I were to leave here that
22
the -- and there was an opening posted for general
23
counsel and U of M had a posting for attorneys that
24
would be one. HR professionals, psychologists, social
25
workers, maintenance workers, custodians, all, you know,
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1
the same. And besides the University of Michigan other
2
private employers as well for those categories that we
3
have here.
4
Q. Would it be for teachers or would that not be a
5
category where it would compete?
6
A. Well, it could be for teachers. I don't know
7
what the requirements are to be instructors or
8
professors at the university, but we have teachers here
9
that hold Ph.D.'s and master's degrees.
10
Q. Going on to item number two on Exhibit 2, which
11
also correlates to item number two on the deposition
12
notice, the question was to identify the number of other
13
qualified adults provided medical insurance benefits by
14
the school district, including the number that are
15
opposite sex partners and the number that are same sex
16
partners; the number of OQA dependents also covered.
17
A. Yes.
18
Q. And do we have that information on number two?
19
A. We made a best -- or Mr. Gangi provided me
20
information that is an approximation, and it indicates
21
ten same sex and ten opposite sex. And he indicated and
22
I agree, we don't ask that question when employees apply
23
for the benefit, so that is our best guess,
24
approximately 20.
25
Q. And when they say best guess, are they basing
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Page 22
1
that on some that they know and then they are just
2
trying to figure out the rest or is he just splitting
3
the difference or how do we --
4
A. I think it was the first, some that we
5
anecdotally may know because of who they are, and others
6
just probably an approximation.
7
MR. WOOD: And so what I'd like to do, just
8
so we kind of have all three of these in front of us,
9
I'm going to mark your declaration as Exhibit Number 4
10
and I'm going to -- we'll lay all three of these out in
11
front of us because I think they kind of track each
12
other.
13
(Whereupon Deposition Exhibit No. 4
14
marked for identification.)
15
BY MR. WOOD:
16
Q. Let me show you what's Exhibit Number 4. Is that
17
a declaration that you signed?
18
A. It is.
19
Q. And did you type that or did someone else type
20
it?
21
A. You know, I don't recall.
22
Q. Do you know if plaintiffs' counsel helped prepare
23
it in any way?
24
A. I know that I spoke with plaintiffs' counsel, but
25
I can't recall who prepared the final product.
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1
in here?
2
A. Only to the effect that Exhibit Number 2 may have
3
some more current numbers.
4
Q. And that's kind of why I pulled it out when I did
5
because I think --
6
A. Sure.
7
Q. -- the subpoena for the deposition, Exhibit
8
Number 2, and Exhibit Number 4 kind of all have some of
9
the same information. So if we look at, for example,
10
Exhibit Number 4, paragraph two, it says Ann Arbor
11
public schools has a total of approximately 1800
12
employees; would that still be true today?
13
A. Yeah, 1800 full-time employees is probably pretty
14
close.
15
Q. And so out of 1800 you have approximately 20
16
taking advantage of the OEA policy, correct?
17
A. Correct.
18
Q. As you look at paragraph three of your
19
declaration would the numbers be approximately still the
20
same as they were in 2012?
21
A. I would assume so.
22
Q. You don't have any reason to believe there would
23
be any drastic change?
24
A. I do not.
25
Q. It just might be maybe a few numbers off one way
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Page 25
1
or the other?
2
A. That's correct.
3
Q. And paragraph five in the declaration says out of
4
approximately 1800 employees who are eligible to take
5
advantage of the OEA benefits only 33 were doing so as
6
of January 2012; do you see that?
7
A. I do.
8
Q. So it looks like the number has dropped from 33
9
to 20 as of February of 2014, correct?
10
A. Correct.
11
Q. Do you know of any reason that that -- for that
12
drop?
13
A. No.
14
Q. And if we wanted to figure out the percentage in
15
number five we would just use 20 into 1800 as opposed to
16
33, correct?
17
A. Correct.
18
Q. Paragraph number seven talks about the collective
19
bargaining agreements that the school district has; is
20
that still accurate, the information set forth in that
21
paragraph?
22
A. Yes, we still have seven collective bargaining
23
agreements.
24
Q. And when do those expire, do you know?
25
A. The teachers' contract has a revenue formula that
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1
has to be met before the contract expires and I've got
2
the dates here.
3
Q. Okay.
4
A. We have a contract with Quad A, which are the
5
principals, they have a salary reopener in -- this year.
6
We have a contract with office professionals, that
7
contract expires in 2015. We have a contract with
8
AFSCME, our custodial and maintenance group; their
9
contract is due to be negotiated this year. We have a
10
contract with the office professionals, our clerical
11
group, that expires in 2015. We have a group of mid
12
management, I would call them, ASCSA coordinators; we
13
have a wage and fringe benefit reopener with them this
14
year. And we have a technical support group through
15
AFSCME that expires this year as well.
16
Q. Wonderful, thank you.
17
A. You're welcome.
18
Q. Now, the paragraph eight of the declaration sets
19
forth the historical costs of implementing the OEA
20
policy, correct?
21
A. Correct.
22
Q. So since those are historical, those wouldn't
23
have changed since your 2012 declaration, would they?
24
A. No, they wouldn't have.
25
Q. Okay. And then if you were, meaning the school
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Page 28
1
A. Well, we wouldn't have to provide the benefit,
2
but I don't know what the other costs would be. I
3
couldn't categorize them if we lost employees or -- lost
4
trained employees, but clearly we wouldn't have the
5
costs that are reflected on Exhibit Number 2.
6
Q. Now, in your declaration, page four, paragraph
7
11, those look like your annual overall costs for health
8
insurance, and I'm surmising that that would be the type
9
of information that would be reflected on the school's
10
website or the school district's website under the
11
personal expenditures chart of what's called the budget
12
transparency reporting; would that be fair?
13
A. That would be fair.
14
MR. WOOD: And so let me just show you and
15
I'll mark these as 5 and 6. Let's mark that one as 5
16
and that one as 6 and for -- I'll stop talking while you
17
mark them and then I'll tell what they are.
18
(Whereupon Deposition Exhibit Nos. 5 & 6
19
marked for identification.)
20
MR. WOOD: And just for the record and for
21
Debra's benefit, what I marked as Number 5 was filed by
22
the plaintiffs' counsel with the court on March 8th and
23
it, I think, is a print off from the school district's
24
website. It is a chart, a pie chart, and it says, Ann
25
Arbor Public Schools (81010) FY 2009 general fund, and
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Page 29
1
it looks like it talks about personnel expenditures.
2
And then there is a chart that's Exhibit
3
Number 6 which apparently is the same chart off the
4
current website which is for, instead of fiscal year
5
2009, as Number 5, Exhibit Number 5 was, this is Exhibit
6
Number 6 relating to fiscal year 2012 to 2013.
7
BY MR. WOOD:
8
Q. And the reason I marked those at this time,
9
Mr. Comsa, is I just thought that perhaps those
10
correlate to paragraph 11 where we would find similar
11
type of information. Would that be where a member of
12
the public could find this type of information?
13
A. Yes.
14
Q. And in paragraph number 12 it says, the
15
district's -- this is the -- I'm sorry, paragraph number
16
12 of your declaration, the second sentence says the
17
district's average cost to provide insurance to one
18
employee is $4,672 annually for the 2011-2012 plan year;
19
do you see that?
20
A. I do.
21
Q. Do you know what the current cost is for the
22
district, the average cost to provide insurance to one
23
employee?
24
A. I do not.
25
Q. Do you have any reason to believe it would be
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Page 30
1
drastically different from the figure in
2
number -- paragraph number 12?
3
A. No, it shouldn't be.
4
Q. Do you know how many of the 20 OEAs that are
5
currently insured by the school district have
6
dependents?
7
A. I do not.
8
Q. And if we needed to find out that information how
9
could we identify that?
10
A. I'm not certain if those records would be kept by
11
the insurer or not.
12
Q. Okay. Now, on page five of the declaration,
13
which is Exhibit 4, for the record.
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. And then that's the continuation of paragraph 12,
16
it says in the first full sentence of that page, the
17
district's average cost to provide insurance to one OEA
18
annually for this plan is $6,192; do you see that?
19
A. Yeah, that's for the plan year.
20
Q. And do you believe that that's consistent with
21
the current cost of the OEA coverage?
22
A. Subject to any increases in cost, but, yes, that
23
probably generally would be the same.
24
Q. So there may be some kind of incremental cost
25
increase over the last couple years, but it should be
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Page 31
1
roughly in that neighborhood?
2
A. Yeah, I wouldn't guess there would be any drastic
3
change.
4
Q. Okay. So if that were the number we used, for
5
example --
6
A. Sure.
7
Q. -- 6,192, subject to whatever potential increase
8
happened since 2012, and we multiply that by 20 OEAs,
9
we'd have a little over 120 or $130,000, somewhere in
10
that neighborhood; would that be accurate?
11
A. If that was calculated correctly I would assume
12
so.
13
Q. I'm just doing 20 times 6,000 --
14
A. Sure.
15
Q. -- is 120,000?
16
A. Sure.
17
Q. So I did that in my head.
18
A. Sure.
19
Q. And then I figured I had the range just to --
20
A. Sure.
21
Q. -- give myself a little mathematical accuracy
22
there. So if that's true, then, does the OEA policy
23
cost the school district approximately 120 to $130,000 a
24
year given that there are 20 individuals that have taken
25
advantage of the policy?
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1
A. I think one of the questions on the notice of
2
deposition is, I think, in number three, asks the net
3
AAPS cost to cover OQAs.
4
Q. Okay, wonderful, yes, you're exactly correct.
5
A. And Mr. Gangi calculated this on a calendar year
6
as opposed to the school's fiscal year which is July 1
7
to June 30. And it's number three on Exhibit Number 2
8
and the information that he provided me as set forth
9
there, it says the cost -- net cost to cover OQA for
10
2011 was 244,408; 2012 it was 312,311, and 2013 was
11
202,237. Now, I'm not certain how he calculated that as
12
opposed to the calculation we're doing now, but that is
13
the information he provided me.
14
Q. And, for the record, I'm doing this off the top
15
of my head so I could very well be off mathematically
16
and obviously the insurer is going to have better
17
detailed information than me.
18
A. Sure.
19
Q. It looks like on Exhibit 2 there was a drop from
20
2012 to 2013 of about $110,000, which might correspond
21
to the fact that there were 33 OEAs and now there's only
22
20. Do you know something that happened between those
23
two years, between 2012 and 2013; was there a
24
reorganization or a closing of a school or anything?
25
A. No, there was not.
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1
$100,000. And we're just part of -- we're complying
2
with that legislation.
3
Q. Do you know who creates this chart?
4
A. It probably -- well, it would be the business and
5
finance office.
6
Q. You don't have a role in creating that chart,
7
fair?
8
A. That's fair.
9
Q. So if we go to the deposition notice, item number
10
three, the school district's costs to provide coverage
11
for each year, we just answered that?
12
A. Correct.
13
Q. And number four says the total costs to the
14
school district to provide medical insurance benefits
15
for employees for each fiscal year beginning 2008 and
16
the relationship of these costs to other cost or expense
17
categories. And what is it that Exhibit 2, the
18
information from the insurer, tells us in this regard?
19
A. If you look at number four on Exhibit 2, 4 a, b
20
c, and d reflects what I believe to be the fiscal year
21
cost to provide medical insurance for our employees.
22
Q. And do you know how the cost of health insurance
23
or medical benefits has risen or fallen in comparison to
24
other benefits that the school district offers?
25
A. In preparation for this deposition I spoke
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-27 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 20 of 35 Pg ID 4084
Page 40
1
insurance coverage and he indicated, I'm sure he's going
2
to appreciate that he ignored the small self-funded
3
portion. We have a small self-funded group still, I
4
think it's 40 people or less, that probably will need to
5
enroll into insured coverage because insurance companies
6
I think wanted to have at least 50 in the self-insurance
7
piece, so the correct answer would be we have -- we
8
purchase insurance coverage and we have a small self-
9
funded group as well.
10
Q. Do you know if any of the OEAs are in the self
11
funded group?
12
A. I do not.
13
Q. Would there be a way to determine that?
14
A. I don't know.
15
Q. Is there a certain category or group of worker
16
that's in the self funded, for example, a certain title
17
or a certain age group or seniority group or something
18
along those lines?
19
A. You know, I don't know what the self-funded group
20
is.
21
Q. Item number seven asks for the source of funding
22
used to pay employee medical benefits including OQA --
23
A. Yes.
24
Q. -- and OQA dependent benefits.
25
A. Yes.
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1
Q. And on that one --
2
A. Mr. Gangi punted to me and says Dave Comsa to
3
detail. So I talked briefly with Nancy Hoover and, you
4
know, we have several sources of revenue at the
5
district, we have our per pupil grants, we have property
6
taxes, we have other grants, federal grants, et cetera.
7
The best answer would be that the source of funds to pay
8
for this would be our general funds.
9
Q. And just so I know, what funds does the school
10
district receive from the state; what would be the types
11
of funds?
12
A. I know that we receive our per pupil allotment,
13
which is hopefully going to go up this year. I think we
14
receive property taxes and there are other funds in
15
there that I really can't speak to. The business office
16
would be able to detail all of our income.
17
Q. Number eight on the deposition notice says any
18
adjustments to the employee copays for medical benefits
19
for each fiscal year beginning with 2008 for each
20
exclusively represented bargaining group, for non-
21
exclusively represented employees, and for all other
22
employees. And then that corresponds to Exhibit 2,
23
correct?
24
A. Correct.
25
Q. And could you tell us what Exhibit 2 tells us in
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Exhibit 14
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 1 of 73 Pg ID 4100
1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2 FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
3 SOUTHERN DIVISION
4
5 THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
6 KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
7 BREAKEY, JOLINDAJACH and BARBARA
8 RAMBER, DOAKBLOSS and GERARDO
9 ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER and
10 MICHELLE JOHNSON,
11 Plaintiffs,
12 vs. Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
13 Hon. David M. Lawson
14 RICHARD SNYDER, in his official
15 capacity as Governor of the state
16 of Michigan,
17 Defendant.
18 __________________________
19 The Deposition of JOSEPH PRICE, Ph.D.,
20 Taken at 525 West Ottawa Street, 2nd Floor,
21 Lansing, Michigan,
22 Commencing at 8:03 a.m.,
23 Monday, February 3, 2014,
24 Before Deana M. Ryan, CSR-3715.
25
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1 APPEARANCES:
2
3 BRADLEY H. WEIDENHAMMER
4 Kirkland & Ellis, L.L.P.
5 300 North Lasalle Drive
6 Chicago, Illinois 60654
7 312.862.2649
8 Appearing on behalf of the Plaintiffs.
9
10 ROCK WOOD
11 State of Michigan
12 State Operations Division
13 525 West Ottawa, 2nd Floor
14 Lansing, Michigan 48933
15 517.373.1162
16 Appearing on behalf of the Defendant.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 However you define costs and benefits -- I understand
2 you would define them broadly -- but however defined
3 it was your task and mission in this case to assess
4 both the costs and the benefits of the Benefit
5 Restriction Act, correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. So when you say the economic impact you're talking
8 about the net economic impact, right?
9 A. That is correct.
10 Q. Benefits less cost, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. As an economist when you assess the economic impact of
13 something it's common to assess both the benefits and
14 the costs, correct?
15 A. That would be true if you needed to come up with a
16 specific number, but, yeah, you would evaluate both
17 the costs and benefits of the policy change.
18 Q. But even if your task weren't to come up with a
19 specific number, if your task is to analyze the net
20 outcome or the net impact of something you need to
21 consider both the costs and the benefits, correct?
22 A. Again, if you didn't -- if you weren't getting an
23 exact number you wouldn't be able to quantify all
24 those pieces so if you left a piece out it wouldn't
25
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1 affect the whole picture. No, your job would be to
2 look at both costs and benefits.
3 Q. Right. So to be clear, as an economist examining
4 economic impact of something you would look at both
5 costs and benefits, correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Now, let me refer to paragraph nine of your report,
8 please. Just for the record, as I'm referring to your
9 report throughout the day you'll understand I'm
10 referring to Exhibit 1, correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Look at paragraph nine, please. In paragraph nine,
13 first sentence, you say marriage provides economic
14 benefits to the State of Michigan by reducing welfare
15 benefits, increasing tax revenue, and reducing costs
16 incurred by the State related to criminal justice and
17 health care. Do you see that?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. The first part of that sentence you say marriage
20 provides economic benefits to the State of Michigan.
21 You mean net economic benefits?
22 A. Actually the way I phrased this sentence is economic
23 benefits.
24 Q. As part of your analysis in this case did you actually
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1 benefits to married couples produces economic benefits
2 for the State of Michigan?
3 A. Again, the way I've kind of stated it here in the
4 report is by restricting health benefits to married
5 couples it creates an incentive for couples to marry
6 and marriage produces economic benefits for the State
7 of Michigan.
8 Q. Do you agree that it's also important to consider
9 whether restricting partner health benefits to married
10 couples creates any economic costs or detriments to
11 the State of Michigan?
12 A. That would be helpful. I wasn't aware of any while
13 writing this report.
14 Q. Aside from whether you were aware of any you said it
15 would be helpful. It would be important, wouldn't it?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. In fact, without understanding any costs associated
18 with restricting partner health benefits to married
19 couples it wouldn't be possible to opine on whether it
20 creates a net economic benefit, correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Now, further down in paragraph nine you say allowing
23 partner health benefits to extend to cohabiting
24 couples increases the relative incentive to cohabit
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1 couples will result in higher costs borne by the State
2 of Michigan. To the extent that the shift toward
3 marriage imposes certain costs are you balancing those
4 out in your statement that the shift toward marriage
5 will result in higher costs; in other words, are you
6 including avoided costs in that?
7 A. Again, as an economist I was focusing primarily on
8 these broader economic costs via education, health,
9 criminal justice. Based on my reading of the
10 literature I didn't see any evidence that marriage
11 would raise the cost in those areas.
12 Q. Well, my question wasn't limited to marriage but we'll
13 get back to that.
14 Do you have any opinion in this case about
15 whether the Benefit Restriction Act is rational from
16 an economic perspective?
17 A. Yes. The State of Michigan defines marriage as
18 between a man and a woman and I think a state has a
19 rational interest in promoting marriage.
20 Q. Now, do you say it's got a rational interest in
21 promoting marriage from an economic sense or from some
22 other context?
23 A. From an economic sense.
24 Q. To the extent you're offering any opinion about the
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1 rationale or whether the law is rational you're
2 offering that opinion in the economic sense, correct?
3 A. That's correct.
4 Q. You're not here to offer opinions about broader moral
5 or societal rationales for the Benefit Restriction
6 Act, correct?
7 A. That's correct.
8 Q. Now, in an economic sense do you agree that a law is
9 rational if its benefits outweigh its costs?
10 A. I don't know how to legally answer that question.
11 Q. Well, from the perspective -- you said that you have
12 an opinion that this particular law, the Benefit
13 Restriction Law, is rational from an economic sense,
14 right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And when you say the law is rational in an economic
17 sense what you're saying is that it's your opinion
18 that its benefits outweigh its cost in an economic
19 sense, correct?
20 MR. WOOD: Object to the form of the
21 question.
22 You can answer.
23 A. Again, I don't know if I would phrase it quite that
24 way, but as an economist I would say one rationale for
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1 regard that law as a rational law, would you?
2 A. Well, again, as an economist there's lots of reasons
3 why laws would be passed. If you are asking me for an
4 economic rationale for a law then I would use the
5 metric that the benefits exceed the costs.
6 Q. Right. Just to be clear, my question is in the
7 context of the opinions you say you have about the
8 economic rationale for this law, right?
9 A. That's right.
10 Q. And you said you believe that the Benefit Restriction
11 Act is an economically rational law, right?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. So within the context of your opinion as an economist
14 the law's benefits would have to outweigh its costs in
15 order for you to say it's rational, correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION:
18 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 4
19 8:45 a.m.
20 BY MR. WEIDENHAMMER:
21 Q. I'm handing you what I'm marking as Exhibit 4. Take a
22 moment to review Exhibit 4, please.
23 MR. WOOD: Just for the record it looks
24 like this is a Supreme Court brief. To the extent
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1 to quantify the expected benefit from the marriage
2 premium that you identified in paragraph 21, right?
3 A. That's correct.
4 Q. But in your report you never try to quantify the
5 potential effect of increased municipal or state
6 salaries that might result from the marriage premium
7 you identified, correct?
8 A. I did not because, again, the marriage premium can
9 operate by taking on a new employer. That's my
10 rationale for not including that particular
11 expenditure in the report.
12 Q. My question wasn't about your rationale. My question
13 was in your report do you attempt to quantify the
14 effect of your marriage premium that you discuss in
15 paragraph 21 in terms of additional expenditures and
16 employee salaries?
17 A. No.
18 Q. In your report do you attempt to quantify at all the
19 decreases in tax revenues from same sex couples who
20 might relocate to a different state because of the
21 Benefit Restriction Act?
22 A. I do not.
23 Q. Do you have any empirical basis to say one way or the
24 other same tax couples might leave the state as a
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1 consequence of the Benefit Restriction Act?
2 A. I do not.
3 Q. That's just not something you considered at all,
4 right?
5 A. No.
6 Q. No, you didn't consider it?
7 A. I did not consider that.
8 Q. In your report do you consider at all or calculate the
9 cost of increasing -- the State increasing the ranks
10 of the uninsured as a result of the Benefit
11 Restriction Act?
12 A. Just the issue of Medicaid, and so when marriage rates
13 go up you have less people receiving Medicaid. I
14 would imagine that would also mean that you'd have
15 less people that are uninsured as well.
16 Q. But the effect of the Benefit Restriction Act -- one
17 of the effects is to take away benefits from some
18 people that might otherwise have them, right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Do you consider in your report or forming your
21 opinions at all the cost to the State of people who
22 were previously covered by health insurance no longer
23 being covered by health insurance?
24 A. I don't.
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1 Q. Have you made any effort in your report to quantify or
2 estimate the likelihood that the Benefit Restriction
3 Act would more likely motivate some couples to marry
4 than it would motivate other couples to leave the
5 state?
6 A. I don't.
7 Q. Do you know whether any neighboring states around
8 Michigan have similar employee benefit restrictions?
9 A. I don't.
10 Q. That's not something you tried to find out?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Did you consider or quantify at all for purposes of
13 your report the lost tax revenue from the domestic
14 partner benefits that have been prohibited by the
15 Benefit Restriction Act?
16 A. Repeat that again.
17 Q. Were you aware that benefits are taxed, right?
18 A. I wasn't aware of that.
19 Q. So fair to say that you didn't calculate any lost tax
20 revenue from the loss of other qualified adult
21 benefits; is that fair?
22 A. That's fair.
23 MR. WEIDENHAMMER: Do you mind if we take a
24 short break?
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1 Q. So Sampson doesn't offer an opinion other than to say
2 other relationships between besides marriage might
3 capture the crime suppressing benefits, right?
4 A. Sure.
5 Q. Fair to say Sampson doesn't support the proposition
6 that moving couples from cohabitation to marriage will
7 have any effect on crime, right?
8 A. His data wouldn't allow him to say that, yes.
9 Q. So as you sit here you wouldn't say that Sampson gives
10 you sufficient data to opine that moving couples from
11 cohabitation to marriage will reduce crime, right?
12 A. Again, since cohabiting couples are rather unstable
13 they kind of move in and out of singlehood, so, yeah,
14 this paper would not provide the clearest comparison
15 between cohabitation and married couples.
16 Q. Well, it doesn't provide any comparison, does it?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. So as you sit here today can you point to any data
19 that you cite in your paper for the proposition that
20 moving cohabiting couples from cohabitation to
21 marriage will have any effect on crime, right?
22 A. Nothing that I cite here in my report.
23 Q. You didn't re-analyze Sampson's data to get at that
24 question, did you?
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1 Q. And so with regard to evaluating the mechanisms that
2 Sampson hypothesizes and that you discuss in your
3 report you can't confidently say that those mechanisms
4 with regard to the Sampson cohort wouldn't be the same
5 or even greater with regard to cohabiting couples
6 today, right?
7 A. That's true.
8 Q. In your report, paragraph 25, you note that the state
9 spends money to capture and incarcerate criminals,
10 right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Do you have any idea how many municipal employees have
13 committed crimes in the past year in Michigan?
14 A. I don't know.
15 Q. Do you have any idea how many public employees have
16 committed crimes in Michigan in the last ten years?
17 A. I don't know.
18 Q. For any time period?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Do you have any data about the propensity of partners
21 of public employees in Michigan to commit crimes?
22 A. I don't know.
23 Q. You don't have any idea about what the crime rate is
24 for the public employees or their partners?
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1 underlies them?
2 A. Yeah, I don't remember if that was a priority of mine.
3 Q. Do you agree with me that the population whose
4 behavior you say the Benefit Restriction Act might
5 influence would be cohabiting people who would
6 otherwise get cohabiting benefits but instead are
7 incentivized to marry, right?
8 A. Well, it would be anyone that is considering marriage
9 and this would be an added benefit of marriage and so,
10 I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be cohabiting
11 couples making that decision to marry.
12 Q. That's a fair clarification.
13 A. There are some people that don't cohabit before
14 marriage.
15 Q. Fewer all the time, though, right? Well, that's a
16 fair clarification. The two states of being that
17 you're primarily concerned with comparing in your
18 report are cohabitation versus marriage, right?
19 A. Those would be the -- yeah, that's probably a fair
20 comparison, yeah.
21 Q. Because what you're saying in your report is that by
22 denying cohabiting couples these health benefits you
23 are dis-incentivizing people to cohabit versus
24 marriage?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And the whole point of your report is that in your
3 view marriage versus cohabitation has economic
4 benefits for the state, right?
5 A. I think I was actually making a broader statement
6 about marriage versus other relationships.
7 Q. Well, you make some broader statements in your report
8 certainly, but my question is more for purposes of
9 evaluating the economic impact of the Benefit
10 Restriction Act, the relevant comparator is
11 cohabitation versus marriage, right?
12 A. I'm not sure that's exactly true.
13 Q. Is it generally true?
14 A. Well, cohabiting unions are rather unstable and so if
15 I were to compare the benefits of marriage to
16 cohabitation I've have to take into account that
17 cohabiting couples are going to move in and out of a
18 single status.
19 Q. Right, but, again, the point is the economic
20 incentives that you're creating -- that the
21 legislature is creating in your view are incentives
22 not to cohabit but instead to marry, right?
23 A. My understanding is they're creating an incentive to
24 marry. You can only have these benefits when you're
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1 Q. Is it fair to characterize that as the thrust of your
2 report?
3 A. Again, the Benefit Restriction Act is going to create
4 an incentive for people to marry and then once they
5 enter that marital union then the state gets to reap
6 the benefits of marriage. If they enter a cohabiting
7 union then there's actually -- I mean, the evidence is
8 such that it might not last that long so they would be
9 back into the single state.
10 Q. But also marriage might not last?
11 A. That's true.
12 Q. Whether people move in or out of the relationship is
13 kind of -- let's put that to one side.
14 A. Sure.
15 Q. The Benefit Restriction Act in your view changes the
16 incentive between cohabitation and marriage, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And before the Benefits Restriction Act in some
19 locations for some public employees they had the
20 option of either cohabiting or marrying and getting
21 the same sort of other qualifying adult benefits,
22 right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. The variable here is taking away -- making unequal the
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1 benefits between cohabitation and marriage, right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. So it's that inequality between cohabitation and
4 marriage that you're studying the economic impact of
5 in your report, right?
6 A. With the caveat that -- you need to be careful because
7 people don't stay in cohabiting unions.
8 Q. Well, they don't stay in marriages either all the
9 time, right?
10 A. That's right, but the cohabitation dissolution rates
11 are much higher than marriage rates.
12 Q. And that's one of the reasons that you believe that
13 marriage creates greater sort of economic benefits to
14 the state than cohabitation?
15 A. That's right.
16 Q. So that's built into the analysis?
17 A. Yeah. I mean, you would say, hey, there's married
18 people, there's people who aren't married, and some of
19 those people are going to be single or cohabiting and
20 you're saying what's the economic benefit of
21 encouraging more people to enter the married group.
22 So then you would want to compare it to people who
23 aren't married. Some of them are going to be
24 cohabiting and some are going to be single.
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1 Q. Right, but you're sort of identifying differences that
2 you believe exist between marriage and cohabitation,
3 right, like length of the relationship, for instance,
4 right? You said that was an important caveat between
5 marriage and cohabitation, right?
6 A. That's right.
7 Q. But my question was more fundamental. At heart what
8 you're opining on in your report is the economic
9 impact of the state passing this law, the Benefit
10 Restriction law, which makes unequal the economic
11 incentive to marry versus cohabit, right?
12 A. That's right.
13 Q. Let me ask you to look at Wood, which is Exhibit 8, at
14 page five, footnote one. Do you have that?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. What Wood says in footnote one is this review does not
17 examine the effect of cohabitation on health or the
18 differing health effects of marriage and cohabitation.
19 Do you see that?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Do you agree with me Wood doesn't provide any
22 empirical or even qualitative basis to distinguish
23 between health outcomes and cohabitation of marriage?
24 A. Yes.
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1 Q. I'm not asking about other studies. I'm asking you
2 what this sentence in Umberson communicates to you.
3 MR. WOOD: Asked and answered.
4 A. Again, I have no idea what Umberson was personally
5 trying to communicate but this language she's using is
6 very common in scholarly work to hedge against the
7 possibility that there's just things we don't know.
8 BY MR. WEIDENHAMMER:
9 Q. Now, you haven't re-analyzed Umberson's data in any
10 way, have you?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Umberson doesn't provide empirical support for the
13 proposition that moving couples from cohabitation to
14 marriage will improve their health, does it?
15 A. I don't know.
16 Q. You don't know?
17 A. No, I don't.
18 Q. Do you know whether Umberson provides empirical
19 support for the proposition that marriage versus
20 cohabitation has any health premium?
21 A. I don't know.
22 Q. Is it something that you looked at when you were
23 reviewing Umberson to try to determine whether
24 Umberson provided empirical support for those
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1 propositions?
2 A. I don't know.
3 Q. It's not something you discuss in your report?
4 A. It's not something I discuss in the report.
5 Q. In the context of the opinions you're prepared to
6 offer in this case you don't have any opinion on
7 whether Umberson provides empirical support for the
8 proposition that marriage causes positive health
9 outcomes versus cohabitation; is that right?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. Did Umberson even study cohabitation; do you know?
12 A. I don't know.
13 Q. Is that something you ever concerned yourself with as
14 you were preparing your report?
15 A. Again, the perspective I'm taking is what are the
16 effects of marriage versus other kinds of structured
17 arrangements.
18 Q. Now I'd like you to answer my question.
19 A. Sure.
20 Q. Is that something you considered as you were preparing
21 your reports?
22 A. Not in this specific paragraph.
23 Q. Did you consider whether Umberson evaluated
24 cohabitation as part of preparing your report?
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1 Q. And you're just not sure whether people who had
2 previously been married but were presently cohabited
3 were part of the study?
4 A. I don't know.
5 Q. Again, that's just not something you concerned
6 yourself with as part of preparing your opinions in
7 this case, right?
8 A. For this particular article, yes.
9 Q. Do you know whether the word cohabitation even appears
10 in Umberson?
11 A. I don't know. The article was written in 1987.
12 Research on cohabitation has been a little more recent
13 than that.
14 Q. To be clear, you cite two studies for the proposition
15 that marriage is associated with positive health
16 outcomes, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Do you cite any empirical basis in your report that
19 marriage provides positive health outcomes versus
20 cohabitation?
21 A. Again, that wasn't the comparison that I considered.
22 So, no, I don't -- in that section I don't compare
23 marriage and cohabitation specifically.
24 Q. But my question is a little broader than that. In
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1 your report do you cite any empirical basis for the
2 proposition that marriage creates positive health
3 outcomes versus cohabitation?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Let me ask you to look at Exhibit 6 again, please.
6 Let me know when you have that.
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. Do you have it?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Let me refer you to page ten, please, of Exhibit 6.
11 In the last paragraph before the heading conclusion on
12 page ten it says one of the primary difficulties that
13 can arise in these second-stage analyses is
14 interpreting the results in light of the fact that
15 these estimates only capture the causal impact of
16 marriage on the individuals whose decision to marry is
17 influenced by the particular instrument?
18 A. That's right.
19 Q. And then you go on to cite Stevenson's study in 2007,
20 which notes that it's important to differentiate
21 between the average marriage, which is likely to be a
22 happy one, and the marginal marriage that may be
23 created or spared by government policy, which may be
24 quite different. Do you see that?
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1 A. Yes, I do.
2 Q. First of all, Stevenson's study, and you here in
3 Exhibit 6 use the term marginal marriages to indicate
4 marriages that wouldn't have occurred but for some
5 government policy, right?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. So if we use the term marginal marriage as we go
8 forward you'll understand that that's what I'm
9 referring to; is that right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. In fact, in the preceding sentence, the first sentence
12 of that paragraph you say -- you refer to individuals
13 whose decision to marry is influenced by a particular
14 instrument, right?
15 A. That's right.
16 Q. Again, what you're getting at is this concept of
17 marginal marriages, right?
18 A. Yeah. The key distinction is the marginal marriage
19 will differ based on which policy you're looking at.
20 For example, if your instrument is incarceration rates
21 then the marginal marriage is a woman who otherwise
22 would have been married to a man who is now in prison.
23 If your instrument is something like health
24 insurance benefits then the marginal marriage is the
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1 couple who chose to marry because of those benefits.
2 Q. Understanding that marginal marriages -- the exact
3 sort of population that fits the category of marginal
4 marriages will differ depending on the policy in
5 question --
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. -- that's generating the margin, basically?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. But the concept will remain the same, which is that
10 marginal marriages refer to marriages that would not
11 have occurred but for the policy, fair?
12 A. Yep.
13 Q. So with regard to the Benefit Restriction Act marginal
14 marriages would refer to couples who would not have
15 gotten married but for the Benefit Restriction Act,
16 right?
17 A. Yeah. They might not realize that's the reason they
18 married but as an empiricist looking at it these are
19 the marriages that occurred that otherwise wouldn't
20 have.
21 Q. They wouldn't say as part of their vows, thank you,
22 Benefit Restriction Act. But as an empiricist when
23 you're evaluating the population you would
24 characterize the marginal marriages in the context of
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1 the Benefit Restriction Act as marriages that would
2 not have occurred but for the Act?
3 A. Yeah. I wouldn't actually be able to identify which
4 marriages are the marginal ones. All I would see is
5 the change in the marriage rate and I could attribute
6 that change to the change in the policy.
7 Q. Regardless of whether you can actually identify the
8 specific individuals conceptually the marginal
9 marriages represent the increase in the marriage rate
10 that you believe would happen as a result of the
11 Benefit Restriction Act, right?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. So in the context of the Benefit Restriction Act if I
14 say the marginal marriages you'll understand that I'm
15 referring to your conception of marriages that would
16 occur because of the Benefit Restriction Act that
17 wouldn't have otherwise occurred, right?
18 A. That's correct.
19 Q. And you'll understand that as we go forward, right?
20 A. Right.
21 Q. If you're ever confused about what I'm referring to
22 let me know right away, okay?
23 A. That's fine.
24 Q. Do you want to take a break?
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1 A. No.
2 Q. Again returning to the second sentence in that final
3 paragraph before the heading conclusion where you're
4 quoting Stevenson and Wolfers, you quote them as
5 saying it's important to differentiate between the
6 average marriage and the marginal marriage, right?
7 A. That's right.
8 Q. Do you agree with Stevenson in that regard?
9 A. If you're trying to estimate the causal effect of
10 marriage that's true.
11 Q. And Stevenson goes on to say that the marginal
12 marriage may be quite different from the average
13 marriage, right?
14 A. That's possible. I mean, again, it depends on the
15 policy underlying the marginal marriage. I think in
16 the case of the prisons it's pretty clear it's going
17 to create these negative marginal marriages for other
18 policies. It's not clear if the marginal marriage
19 would have a bigger impact than the average marriage.
20 Q. But the whole point is that marginal marriages are
21 qualitatively different in the sense that they're
22 marginal so you don't know whether that marginal
23 aspect creates the same or different outcomes versus
24 average marriages, fair?
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1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. And that's the whole point of what Stevenson is saying
3 there, right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And then in the final sentence in that same paragraph
6 in Exhibit 6 you go on to say that thus while these
7 particular results will not provide insight needed
8 into the public value created by the institution of
9 marriage, they provide the insight needed to consider
10 the consequences of policies designed to influence
11 marriage decisions; is that right?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. So there what you're saying basically is kind of the
14 converse, which is that outcomes that you see in
15 studies of marginal marriages tell you a lot about
16 those marginal marriages, right?
17 A. That's right.
18 Q. But they don't tell you much about the institution of
19 marriage generally?
20 A. That's true.
21 Q. And the converse is also true that studies showing
22 outcomes for average marriages don't tell you about
23 the outcomes you can expect from marginal marriages
24 necessarily, correct?
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1 A. That's right.
2 Q. So as an empirical matter you need to understand what
3 these marginal marriages are like in order to
4 determine whether average outcomes for marriage will
5 be manifested in those marginal marriages, right?
6 A. That' correct.
7 Q. Let me ask you to take a look at Exhibit 6, please,
8 and in particular the final sentence of the preceding
9 paragraph, so the paragraph on page ten where it
10 begins there have been a few articles. Do you see
11 that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Actually before we get into that let me ask you a
14 couple more general questions.
15 First of all, it's possible that marginal
16 marriages might be less stable than non-marginal
17 marriages, right?
18 A. It's possible.
19 Q. It's possible that marginal marriages might be less
20 happy than average marriages; is that fair?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. It's possible that marginal marriages might involve a
23 greater rate of spousal abuse than average marriages?
24 A. It's possible.
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1 Q. It's possible that marginal marriages might have a
2 higher divorce rate than average marriages?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. It's possible that marginal marriages might exhibit a
5 lower extent of commitment between the two partners
6 than average marriages; is that fair?
7 A. That's true.
8 Q. It's possible that partners in a marginal marriage
9 might invest less in child rearing than average
10 partners in a marriage, fair?
11 A. It's possible.
12 Q. It's possible that marginal marriages might show worse
13 outcome for children than average marriages, right?
14 A. It's possible.
15 Q. It's possible that marginal marriages may differ from
16 non-marginal in any number of ways, right?
17 A. Yes. All of those are actually the wrong comparison,
18 just to make that point clear.
19 Q. What do you mean by that?
20 A. Well, so if you're thinking about the effect of a
21 marginal marriage you actually don't want to compare
22 the outcome of the marginal marriage with the average
23 marriage. You want to compare the outcome of the
24 marginal marriages with the outcome they would have
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1 A. Again, that comparison between the marginal marriages
2 and average marriages doesn't help you know whether
3 the average -- the marginal marriage, how much better
4 off it is than if they hadn't married.
5 Q. But if you don't know what outcomes you can see for a
6 marginal marriage, in other words, if you can't assume
7 that marginal marriages exhibit the same outcomes as
8 average marriages, then you don't have any empirical
9 basis to say that marginal marriages produce better or
10 worse or the same outcomes as some other condition,
11 fair?
12 A. Again, you have to simplify that a little bit. I just
13 want to make sure that I am agreeing to something that
14 I know is true.
15 Q. If your basis for making a prediction about marginal
16 marriages is based on average marriages you need to
17 know the extent to which those marginal marriages will
18 actually manifest those benefits or those outcomes,
19 right?
20 A. That's true.
21 Q. And if you don't know the extent to which marginal
22 marriages actually demonstrate the outcomes that
23 average marriages do you just don't know anything
24 about those marginal marriage outcomes, right?
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1 A. That's true.
2 Q. So you can't compare those marginal marriages to any
3 state of being if you don't know anything about the
4 outcomes, right?
5 A. Again, this is a rather technical empirical issue that
6 one of the ways that we try to get at a causal
7 estimate of marriage is by using an instrument of
8 variable. One of the limitations of that approach is
9 that it only estimates the effect of marginal
10 marriage. There's other empirical approaches that try
11 to answer the same question.
12 One of the studies I cite is Korenman and
13 Neumark. They use a fixed effect approach which is
14 you're comparing people before and after they get
15 married. That's an alternative approach to doing
16 that.
17 Another way is maybe to control for the
18 section effect into marriage and try to adjust for
19 those section factors and see if there's a causal
20 effect that's left over.
21 Your questions are related to one empirical
22 method.
23 Q. Well, no. Actually my questions are restricted to a
24 particular type of marriage, which is to say marginal
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1 marriage. Marginal marriage we said before is a
2 marriage that is motivated or would not exist but for
3 some change in public policy, right?
4 A. That's right.
5 Q. So I'm getting at that particular type of marriage.
6 That's a distinct characteristic, right, between
7 marginal marriage and average marriage, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And we discussed a moment ago that's why in Exhibit 6
10 you specifically differentiate between average
11 marriages and marginal marriage, right?
12 A. Yes, where that's possible with the data that you
13 have.
14 Q. The reason it's important to differentiate is because
15 one cannot assume as an empirical matter that marginal
16 marriages demonstrate the same outcomes as average
17 marriages, right?
18 A. That's true.
19 MR. WOOD: Is this a good time to take a
20 break?
21 MR. WEIDENHAMMER: Why don't we finish up
22 with this publication.
23 Let's go off the record.
24 (Discussion off the record at 11:35 a.m.)
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1 Q. Fair clarification. I'm focusing on policies that --
2 regardless of whether they're intended to marry,
3 policies that you believe have the effect of
4 incentivizing people to marry.
5 A. Incentivizing people to marry. That's a great way to
6 put it.
7 Q. So to ask the question again, in your report do you
8 cite any study showing that a policy that creates an
9 incentive to marry caused positive outcomes among the
10 marginal marriages?
11 A. I don't.
12 Q. Can you identify a study anywhere in the literature
13 that shows marginal marriages induced by policies and
14 incentivized marriage caused better outcomes than
15 cohabitation?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Can you identify any study anywhere in the literature
18 that shows that marginal marriage induced by marriage
19 incentive policies caused better outcome than
20 cohabitation with regard to receiving public
21 assistance?
22 A. No.
23 Q. With regard to Medicaid use?
24 A. Not aware of any.
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1 any published or working papers on that topic.
2 Q. What research have you done that you haven't published
3 or --
4 A. The paper with Kasey Buckles and Melanie Goaly about
5 blood test laws, we attempted to use that as a
6 potential instrument for marriage. It turns out it
7 has an effect on marriage but it's not a strong enough
8 first stage relationship to use as a second stage
9 paper.
10 Q. To the extent you've done any research on the topic of
11 whether marginal marriages show better outcome than
12 cohabitation your results have been inconclusive?
13 A. Again, it didn't have the power to make definitive
14 statements.
15 Q. Didn't have the power to say yes or no whether
16 marginal marriages show better outcomes than
17 cohabitation, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Can you point to any studies anywhere showing that
20 marginal marriages induced by marriage incentive
21 policies produced outcomes comparable to non-marginal
22 marriage, average marriages?
23 A. I don't know of any.
24 Q. And you don't cite any in your report?
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1 A. I don't cite any in my report.
2 Q. Let me ask you to look again at your report, please,
3 paragraph 14. Do you see that?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. In paragraph 14 you're citing a study by Thomas and
6 Sawhill, correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Thomas and Sawhill studied the way in which poverty
9 rates among children may vary by marital status of
10 their parents?
11 A. Yes.
12 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION:
13 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT 12
14 12:27 p.m.
15 BY MR. WEIDENHAMMER:
16 Q. Sir, I'm handing you what I'm marking as Exhibit 12.
17 Do you recognize Exhibit 12 as the study that you cite
18 in paragraph 14 of your report?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You cite Thomas and Sawhill for the proposition that
21 only 7.6 percent of married parent families with
22 children are below the federal poverty line compared
23 with 34 percent for single parent families with
24 children and 21.5 percent for cohabiting couples with
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1 children, right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. First of all, Thomas and Sawhill don't conclude that
4 the observed difference in poverty rates between
5 married and cohabiting families are causally connected
6 to marriage, right?
7 A. I don't think so.
8 Q. They just say that it's a correlation they can
9 observe, right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And you haven't done any re-analysis of Thomas and
12 Sawhill's data to try to suss out whether the
13 relationship is causal or not, right?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. So you take Thomas and Sawhill's conclusion at face
16 value, right?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. In fact, Thomas and Sawhill don't conclude a marriage
19 causes lower poverty rates versus cohabiting families,
20 do they?
21 A. They don't.
22 Q. And they don't conclude that cohabiting family income
23 would increase if they married, do they?
24 A. They don't.
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1 A. That's right.
2 Q. So I'm asking what analysis they conducted and the
3 analysis they conducted assumes that moving from
4 cohabitation to marriage would not affect income or
5 poverty rates, right?
6 A. And I'm just saying that's based on an assumption that
7 the cohabiting couple stayed together as long as
8 married couples.
9 Q. But you agree that's an assumption Thomas and Sawhill
10 make?
11 A. That's correct.
12 Q. Let's look back at your report for a moment if we
13 could. In paragraph 14 do you cite any source or data
14 other than Thomas and Sawhill?
15 A. In paragraph 14?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. In that particular paragraph just Thomas and Sawhill.
18 Q. But what you say in paragraph 14 is you say that
19 there's a difference that you can observe in the
20 poverty rates between single parent families and
21 cohabiting families, right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And then you can observe another difference between
24 cohabiting families and married couple families,
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1 A. It's possible, I mean, unless they choose to marry
2 instead of cohabit.
3 Q. But you don't know?
4 A. I don't know.
5 Q. Do you agree it's possible some people would have been
6 motivated by the domestic partner benefits to move
7 from single to cohabiting, right? That may not be
8 enough to move them into further step into marriage?
9 A. That's possible.
10 Q. And you haven't attempted to quantify how many people
11 fall into that first category of they might have been
12 incentivized not to marry, right?
13 A. That's right.
14 Q. But even aside from quantifying the number of people
15 in that condition would you agree with me at least
16 that by taking that incentive to cohabit away you're
17 increasing the likelihood that some subset will remain
18 single parent families instead of cohabiting families,
19 right?
20 A. Again, it depends on whether they choose to stay
21 single or whether they choose to marry.
22 Q. You acknowledge the possibility that some might choose
23 to stay single, right?
24 A. Relative to marriage, yes.
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1 Q. And relative to cohabit, right?
2 A. That's right.
3 Q. So to the extent you've removed that incentive to
4 cohabit the difference in the observed outcome between
5 single parent families and cohabiting families for
6 that subset of the population is a loss associated
7 with the Benefit Restriction Act, right?
8 A. That's true to the extent that those transitions
9 occur.
10 Q. So whatever the magnitude of that loss would be needs
11 to be factored in against the expected benefits of the
12 Benefit Restriction Act, right?
13 A. That's correct, with the caveat that -- yeah, that's
14 right.
15 Q. And so that's one of the sort of costs or losses or
16 however you want to characterize it that you need to
17 take into account or you would have to take into
18 account in order to determine whether the Benefit
19 Restriction Act is expected to have a net economic
20 benefit or a net economic loss or cost, right?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. Just to be clear, you haven't attempted to quantify
23 sort of the gross economic benefits you would expect
24 from the Benefit Restriction Act, right?
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1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. And you haven't attempted to quantify sort of the
3 gross economic costs to the Benefit Restriction Act?
4 A. That's correct.
5 Q. So you don't have an opinion specifically about
6 whether the Benefit Restriction Act creates a net
7 economic benefit or net economic loss, right?
8 A. I wouldn't be able to pin down a specific.
9 Q. But even qualitatively do you have an empirical basis
10 to say that it creates a net economic benefit versus a
11 loss?
12 A. I think what we could say is that --
13 Q. Sorry, who is we?
14 A. What I would have to claim as an expert is that I
15 believe that incentives change -- incentives change
16 the number of people who would marry and that marriage
17 has broad economic benefits for the State of Michigan.
18 I would be hard pressed to find counteracting benefits
19 that could outweigh that potential benefit. So for
20 example, the hypothetical that you provided recently,
21 I would be hard pressed to think that it could
22 generate enough benefits to offset the losses the
23 State of Michigan would incur by, you know, removing
24 an incentive for people to marry.
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1 Q. But you don't know how many employees affected by the
2 Benefit Restriction Act are single parent families,
3 right?
4 A. That's right.
5 Q. Or single generally, right?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. And you don't know how many employees affected by the
8 Benefit Restriction Act are cohabiting, right?
9 A. That's right.
10 Q. And you don't know how many are married, right?
11 A. That's right.
12 Q. And you don't know and can't say as you sit here today
13 how many of the single employees affected by the
14 Benefit Restriction Act could be motivated to cohabit
15 as a result of what was previously available to
16 domestic partner benefits, right?
17 A. That's right.
18 Q. And you don't have any empirical basis to estimate the
19 number that would be motivated to marry as a
20 consequence of the Benefit Reduction Act, right?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. So you have no empirical basis to even compare those
23 two numbers, right?
24 A. That's correct.
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1 right?
2 A. That's right. I focused on economic.
3 Q. Nowhere in your report is there any empirical analysis
4 or data or anything else that allows you to opine on
5 the social costs of restricting domestic partner
6 benefits, right?
7 A. That's correct.
8 Q. Referring again to your report on paragraph 13,
9 please, here again you're discussing marriage and
10 welfare benefits, correct?
11 A. That's correct.
12 Q. And in paragraph 13 you cite the Lichter study?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. You cite the Lichter study says that women who are
15 married have a 68 percent lower odds of being below
16 the poverty line and 79 percent chance of receiving
17 food stamps?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Those numbers that you discuss in paragraph 13 are
20 comparing married women to single women?
21 A. Right, I believe so. I don't know how they handle
22 cohabiting couples in that.
23 Q. But you know that the comparison is not between
24 cohabiting couples and married couples, right?
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1 A. That's right. It's between married and unmarried.
2 Q. Just to be clear, the numbers that you quote in
3 paragraph 13 is coming from Lichter comparing married
4 to unmarried, right?
5 A. That's what I believe to be true.
6 Q. As part of support for your opinions in this case you
7 don't draw any data from Lichter that would allow you
8 to compare cohabiting couples to married couples,
9 right?
10 A. I don't use their data.
11 Q. And you don't have any other empirical basis to
12 support the concept or the proposition that you state
13 in paragraph 13 as between married and cohabiting
14 couples, right?
15 A. I don't.
16 Q. You do not?
17 A. I do not.
18 Q. And Lichter also doesn't provided any comparison data
19 showing outcomes for cohabiting couples who are
20 induced to marry by government benefit or incentive,
21 right?
22 A. That's right.
23 Q. So in other words, Lichter doesn't show any outcome
24 for marginal marriages as we defined that term
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1 comparing single to married, right?
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. And at no point in the work that you've done on this
4 case did you run an analysis of ACS data comparing
5 cohabiting couples to married couples?
6 A. Yeah. Let's be clear, it's comparing married
7 individuals to unmarried individuals, so the unmarried
8 would include be single and cohabiting people. I did
9 not compare cohabiting and married.
10 Q. For any purpose in your report, right?
11 A. That's correct.
12 Q. And so all of the analyses that you ran of the ACS
13 data compared non-married to married, correct?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. And you uniformly ignored cohabiting versus married as
16 a comparison?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Now, your analysis of the ACS number showed that
19 marriage was positively associated with reduced food
20 stamp use, right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. But your analysis didn't attempt to demonstrate
23 causation?
24 A. No, that would not be possible.
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1 marriage would cause their household income to
2 increase, would you?
3 A. Not in the stuff I reported in the report. The report
4 was all about married and unmarried.
5 Q. But you never did any analysis of cohabiting versus
6 married couples?
7 A. I didn't do that analysis.
8 Q. So the point remains that you have no empirical basis
9 as you sit here today to say that moving cohabiting
10 couples to marriage would cause their household income
11 to increase, fair?
12 A. I wouldn't be able to make a statement based upon ACS
13 data that I used.
14 Q. Do you cite other data in your report that you believe
15 support the proposition that moving cohabiting couples
16 to marry would cause their household income to
17 increase?
18 A. I imagine there's studies that exist but I haven't
19 cited any of those in my report. My report focused
20 primarily on married versus unmarried.
21 Q. Aside from what might be out in the literature I'm
22 focused on what you said in your report and what you
23 reviewed in the process of forming your opinions. As
24 you sit here you don't have an empirical basis to say
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1 that moving cohabiting couples to marriage would
2 increase their household income, fair?
3 A. What do you mean by empirical basis?
4 Q. Data or publishing study or any other empirical basis.
5 A. None that I've cited in my report.
6 Q. And you can't identify one as you sit here, can you?
7 A. I can't identify one as I sit here.
8 Q. You cannot?
9 A. Not right in this moment.
10 Q. Same question with regard to your analysis in
11 paragraph 22. You don't compare tax revenue from
12 cohabiting couples to potential tax revenue from
13 married couples, correct?
14 A. That's correct.
15 Q. So you don't have an empirical basis to say that
16 cohabiting couples to married would cause an increase
17 in tax revenue for the State of Michigan; is that
18 fair?
19 A. That's fair.
20 MR. WEIDENHAMMER: Why don't we take a
21 short break.
22 (Recess taken at 1:3 p.m.)
23 (Back on the record at 1:35 p.m.)
24 BY MR. WEIDENHAMMER:
25
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B a s s e t t v . S n y d e r
J . P r i c e E x h l b j t 0 0 1
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 48 of 73 Pg ID 4147
I . A s s i g n m e n t
1 . T h e p u r p o s e o f t h i s r e p o r t i s t o a s s e s s t h e e c o n o m i c i m p a c t o f r e s t r i c t i n g p u b l i c
e m p l o y e e h e a l t h b e n e f i t s t o c o u p l e s w h o a r e m a r r i e d . I w i l l f i r s t d i s c u s s w a y s i n
w h i c h m a r r i a g e r e d u c e s e x p e n d i t u r e s a n d i n c r e a s e s r e v e n u e s f o r t h e s t a t e
g o v e r n m e n t o f M i c h i g a n . T h e n I w i l l d i s c u s s h o w c h a n g e s i n t h e e c o n o m i c
i n c e n t i v e s f o r m a r r i a g e ( s u c h a s r e s t r i c t i n g c e r t a i n b e n e f i t s t o m a r r i e d c o u p l e s )
a f f e c t w h e t h e r p e o p l e m a r r y .
I I . Q u a l i f i c a t i o n s
I a m a n A s s o c i a t e P r o f e s s o r o f E c o n o m i c s a t B r i g h a m Y o u n g U n i v e r s i t y , w h e r e I
h a v e w o r k e d s i n c e 2 0 0 7 . I r e c e i v e d b y P h . D . i n e c o n o m i c s f r o m C o r n e l l
U n i v e r s i t y i n 2 0 0 7 a n d m y e m p h a s i s o f s t u d y w a s l a b o r e c o n o m i c s , h e a l t h
e c o n o m i c s , a n d t h e e c o n o m i c s o f t h e f a m i l y .
I h a v e p u b l i s h e d 2 3 a r t i c l e s i n p e e r - r e v i e w e d j o u r n a l s w i t h a n o t h e r 7 t h a t a r e
a c c e p t e d a n d w i l l b e p u b l i s h e d i n t h e n e x t y e a r o r s o . M y p u b l i c a t i o n s i n c l u d e
a r t i c l e s i n s o m e o f t h e t o p a c a d e m i c j o u r n a l s , i n c l u d i n g t h e Q u a r t e r l y J o u r n a l o f
E c o n o m i c s , D e m o g r a p h y a n d M a n a g e m e n t S c i e n c e . M y r e s e a r c h h a s a l s o
r e c e i v e d c o n s i d e r a b l e m e d i a a t t e n t i o n i n c l u d i n g c o v e r a g e i n t h e N e w Y o r k T i m e s ,
W a s h i n g t o n P o s t , T o d a y S h o w , a n d m a n y o t h e r n e w s o u t l e t s . I a m r e g u l a r l y
i n v i t e d t o p r e s e n t m y r e s e a r c h a t d i f f e r e n t a c a d e m i c d e p a r t m e n t s a n d a t v a r i o u s
a c a d e m i c c o n f e r e n c e s .
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 49 of 73 Pg ID 4148
I a m a n e m p i r i c a l e c o n o m i s t t h a t h a s c o n d u c t e d r e s e a r c h o n t h e i m p a c t o f
m a r r i a g e o n i n f a n t h e a l t h o u t c o m e s , f a c t o r s t h a t i n f l u e n c e t h e d e c i s i o n t o m a r r y ,
p a r e n t a l i n v e s t m e n t s i n c h i l d r e n , a n d t h e o u t c o m e s o f c h i l d r e n r a i s e d b y s a m e -
s e x c o u p l e s . A l t h o u g h t h e s p e c i f i c t o p i c s t h a t I h a v e s t u d i e d v a r y , t h e c o m m o n
t h e m e i n m y r e s e a r c h h a s b e e n t h e u s e o f l a r g e d a t a s e t s , r i g o r o u s e m p i r i c a l
m e t h o d s , a n d c o m p l e t e t r a n s p a r e n c y i n a l l o f m y e m p i r i c a l m e t h o d s . I m a k e m y
d a t a a n d a n a l y s i s c o d e a v a i l a b l e t o o t h e r s c h o l a r s a n d o f t e n p r o v i d e a d d i t i o n a l
a n a l y s i s b a s e d o n i n q u i r i e s f r o m t h e m e d i a .
O v e r t h e l a s t s e v e r a l y e a r s , I h a v e a l s o b e e n a s k e d t o r e v i e w t h e a c a d e m i c w o r k
o f o t h e r s c h o l a r s b y o v e r 4 0 d i f f e r e n t s c h o l a r l y j o u r n a l s . T h i s e x p e r i e n c e o f
e v a l u a t i n g t h e w o r k o f o t h e r s i n a v a r i e t y o f f i e l d s g i v e s m e a s t r o n g b a c k g r o u n d
i n d i s c e r n i n g b e t w e e n r e s e a r c h t h a t i s l i k e l y t o r e s u l t i n c o r r e c t i n f e r e n c e a n d
r e s e a r c h w h e r e t h e r e i s l i k e l y t o b e s o m e s o u r c e o f e s t i m a t i o n b i a s t h a t w i l l
a f f e c t t h e i n t e r p r e t a t i o n o f t h e r e s u l t s . T h i s r e q u e s t b y e d i t o r s t o h a v e m e a s s i s t
i n e v a l u a t i n g t h e r e s e a r c h o f o t h e r s c h o l a r s i s a l s o a s i g n a l o f t h e t r u s t t h a t
o t h e r s c h o l a r s p l a c e i n m y a s s e s s m e n t o f g o o d r e s e a r c h .
I h a v e r e c e i v e d s e v e r a l a c a d e m i c a w a r d s , g r a n t s , a n d h o n o r s . T h e s e i n c l u d e t h e
W e l l s a n d M y r l e C l o w a r d T e a c h i n g a n d L e a r n i n g F a c u l t y F e l l o w s h i p , t h e
E m m a l i n e B . W e l l s S c h o l a r l y a n d C r e a t i v e W o r k G r a n t , a n d a n E d u c a t i o n a n d
S o c i a l O p p o r t u n i t y G r a n t f r o m t h e S p e n c e r F o u n d a t i o n . M y C V i s a t t a c h e d a s
E x h i b i t A .
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7 . M y o p i n i o n s i n t h i s r e p o r t a r e b a s e d o n t h e s o u r c e s c i t e d i n t h e f o o t n o t e s a s w e l l
a s m y o w n c a l c u l a t i o n s u s i n g g o v e r n m e n t c o l l e c t e d d a t a t h a t i s p u b l i c l y
a v a i l a b l e . I r e s e r v e t h e r i g h t t o s u p p l e m e n t o r m o d i f y t h i s r e p o r t b a s e d o n a n y
d o c u m e n t s o r o t h e r d i s c o v e r y t h a t b e c o m e s a v a i l a b l e d u r i n g t h e c a s e o r a n y
w i t n e s s t e s t i m o n y t h a t h a s n o t y e t b e e n g i v e n .
8 . I a m b e i n g c o m p e n s a t e d $ 3 0 0 p e r h o u r f o r m y t i m e t o p r e p a r e t h i s e x p e r t
w i t n e s s r e p o r t .
I I I . S u m m a r y o f f i n d i n g s
9 . M a r r i a g e p r o v i d e s e c o n o m i c b e n e f i t s t o t h e s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n b y r e d u c i n g
w e l f a r e p a y m e n t s , i n c r e a s i n g t a x r e v e n u e , a n d r e d u c i n g c o s t s i n c u r r e d b y t h e
s t a t e r e l a t e d t o c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e a n d h e a l t h c a r e . A c o u p l e ' s d e c i s i o n t o m a r r y i s
a f f e c t e d b y c h a n g e s i n t h e c o s t s o r b e n e f i t s o f m a r r i a g e . R e s t r i c t i n g p a r t n e r
h e a l t h b e n e f i t s t o m a r r i e d c o u p l e s c r e a t e s a n a d d i t i o n a l i n c e n t i v e f o r c o u p l e s t o
m a r r y a n d t h i s d e c i s i o n t o m a r r y p r o d u c e s e c o n o m i c b e n e f i t s f o r t h e s t a t e o f
M i c h i g a n . A l l o w i n g p a r t n e r h e a l t h b e n e f i t s t o e x t e n d t o c o h a b i t i n g c o u p l e s
i n c r e a s e s t h e r e l a t i v e i n c e n t i v e t o c o h a b i t i n s t e a d o f m a r r y . T h i s s h i f t a w a y f r o m
m a r r i a g e a m o n g h e t e r o s e x u a l c o u p l e s w i l l r e s u l t i n h i g h e r c o s t s b o r n e b y t h e
s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n ( s i n c e 9 9 . 3 % o f c o u p l e s i n M i c h i g a n a r e o p p o s i t e - s e x c o u p l e s ) .
I V . E c o n o m i c b e n e f i t s o f m a r r i a g e
1 0 . T h e r e a r e a t l e a s t t h r e e w a y s t h a t m a r r i a g e p r o v i d e s e c o n o m i c b e n e f i t s t o t h e
s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n . F i r s t , i t d r a m a t i c a l l y r e d u c e s t h e p r o b a b i l i t y t h a t a h o u s e h o l d
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 51 of 73 Pg ID 4150
w i l l r e c e i v e p u b l i c a s s i s t a n c e . S e c o n d , i t i n c r e a s e s t h e e a r n i n g s o f i n d i v i d u a l s
a n d h o u s e h o l d s , t h u s d i r e c t l y i n c r e a s i n g t a x r e v e n u e s . T h i r d , i t p r o m o t e s
p o s i t i v e b e h a v i o r s i n i n d i v i d u a l s t h a t r e d u c e s t h e c o s t s i n c u r r e d b y t h e s t a t e i n
p r o v i d i n g c o r r e c t i o n a l f a c i l i t i e s , h e a l t h s e r v i c e s , a n d e d u c a t i o n a l i n t e r v e n t i o n s .
O n e o f t h e m o s t c h a l l e n g i n g i s s u e s i n t h i s a r e a o f r e s e a r c h i s t h e d e g r e e t o w h i c h
a s s o c i a t i o n s b e t w e e n m a r r i a g e a n d p o s i t i v e o u t c o m e s r e p r e s e n t a c a u s a l e f f e c t o r
m e r e l y a c o r r e l a t i o n . T h e r e s e a r c h t h a t I d i s c u s s i n t h i s r e p o r t r e p r e s e n t a r t i c l e s
p u b l i s h e d i n w e l l - r e s p e c t e d a c a d e m i c j o u r n a l s a n d r i g o r o u s e f f o r t s t o e s t i m a t e
t h e e f f e c t o f m a r r i a g e o n t h e s e d i f f e r e n t o u t c o m e s .
M o s t o f t h e s t u d i e s t h a t I d e s c r i b e w i l l b e b a s e d o n n a t i o n a l l y r e p r e s e n t a t i v e
d a t a a n d n o t s p e c i f i c a l l y a b o u t M i c h i g a n . T o p r o v i d e a m o r e s p e c i f i c v i e w o f t h e
e c o n o m i c b e n e f i t s o f m a r r i a g e t o t h e s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n , I u s e d a t a f r o m t h e
A m e r i c a n C o m m u n i t y S u r v e y ( A C S ) f r o m 2 0 0 1 - 2 0 1 1 f o r a l l a d u l t s ( a g e s 2 5 - 6 5 )
l i v i n g i n M i c h i g a n . T h e A C S d a t a p r o v i d e s d i r e c t m e a s u r e s o f m o s t o f t h e
o u t c o m e s d i s c u s s e d i n t h i s s e c t i o n . I n e a c h c a s e , I p r o v i d e t h e r a w d i f f e r e n c e
b e t w e e n m a r r i e d a n d u n m a r r i e d a d u l t s i n M i c h i g a n a s w e l l a s a r e g r e s s i o n
a d j u s t e d d i f f e r e n c e t h a t c o n t r o l s f o r t h e i n d i v i d u a l ' s a g e , r a c e / e t h n i c i t y ,
e d u c a t i o n , a n d c i t i z e n s h i p s t a t u s . I e x c l u d e f r o m t h i s a n a l y s i s a n y o n e l i v i n g i n a
g r o u p q u a r t e r s , w h i c h i n c l u d e s c o r r e c t i o n a l f a c i l i t i e s , r e s i d e n t i a l t r e a t m e n t
c e n t e r s , m i l i t a r y b a r r a c k s , o r c o l l e g e r e s i d e n c e h a l l s ( t h o u g h t o g e t h e r t h e s e o n l y
c o n s t i t u t e 1 . 5 % o f t h e o r i g i n a l s a m p l e ) . A l s o , s o m e o f t h e m e a s u r e s t h a t I d i s c u s s
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 52 of 73 Pg ID 4151
1
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 53 of 73 Pg ID 4152
W h i l e t h e S N A P / F o o d S t a m p p r o g r a m i s f e d e r a l l y f u n d e d ( w i t h t h e s t a t e
c o v e r i n g h a l f o f t h e a d m i n i s t r a t i v e c o s t s ) , i t p r o v i d e s a w e l l - d e f i n e d m e a s u r e o f
p u b l i c a s s i s t a n c e t h a t c a n b e e a s i l y c o m p a r e d a c r o s s m a r r i e d a n d u n m a r r i e d
c o u p l e s . A s s u c h , i t s e r v e s a s a u s e f u l p r o x y f o r o t h e r t y p e s o f p u b l i c a s s i s t a n c e
t h a t a r e p a i d d i r e c t l y b y t h e s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n . D a t a f r o m 2 0 0 1 - 2 0 1 1 A C S
i n t h c a t e t h a t o n l y 5 . 8 % o f m a r r i e d a d u l t s r e c e i v e f o o d s t a m p s c o m p a r e d t o 2 0 . 3 %
o f t h e n o n - m a r r i e d a d u l t s . T h e g a p f o r w o m e n i s l a r g e r ( 5 . 7 % v s . 2 3 . 7 % ) a n d
i n c l u d i n g d e m o g r a p h i c c o n t r o l s r e d u c e s t h e o v e r a l l g a p b y a b o u t a t h i r d ( w i t h a n
a d j u s t e d d i f f e r e n c e o f 1 0 . 7 p e r c e n t a g e p o i n t s ) . E v e n i n c l u d i n g t h e s e a d d i t i o n a l
c o n t r o l s , t h e s e r e s u l t s i n d i c a t e t h a t n o n - m a r r i e d a d u l t s a r e a b o u t t h r e e t i m e s
m o r e l i k e l y t o r e c e i v e f o o d s t a m p s . T h e r e a r e t h r e e y e a r s ( 2 0 0 5 - 2 0 0 7 ) f o r w h i c h
t h e t o t a l a m o u n t o f f o o d s t a m p s r e c e i v e d d u r i n g t h e y e a r w a s i n c l u d e d o n t h e
s u r v e y . I f I a v e r a g e t h e t o t a l f o o d s t a m p p a y m e n t s a c r o s s a l l a d u l t s ( e v e n t h o s e
n o t g e t t i n g f o o d s t a m p s ) t h e n t h e a v e r a g e a m o u n t s p e n t p e r m a r r i e d a d u l t w o u l d
b e $ 8 8 c o m p a r e d t o $ 2 8 1 f o r e a c h u n m a r r i e d a d u l t ( t h e r e g r e s s i o n a d j u s t e d
d i f f e r e n c e i s $ 1 2 0 ) .
A n o t h e r l a r g e f o r m o f p u b l i c a s s i s t a n c e i n M i c h i g a n i s M e d i c a i d . I n f o r m a t i o n o n
w h e t h e r t h e i n d i v i d u a l i s r e c e i v i n g M e d i c a i d i s a v a i l a b l e d u r i n g t h e 2 0 0 8 - 2 0 1 1
w a v e s o f t h e A C S . D u r i n g t h e s e y e a r s , I f i n d t h a t 5 . 9 % o f m a r r i e d a d u l t s
r e c e i v e d h e a l t h i n s u r a n c e b e n e f i t s t h r o u g h t h e M e d i c a i d p r o g r a m c o m p a r e d t o
1 9 . 2 % o f u n m a r r i e d a d u l t s ( t h e r e g r e s s i o n a d j u s t e d d i f f e r e n c e i s 9 . 8 p e r c e n t a g e
p o i n t s ) . B a s e d o n e s t i m a t e s b y t h e K a i s e r F a m i l y F o u n d a t i o n , t h e a v e r a g e
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 54 of 73 Pg ID 4153
2
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 55 of 73 Pg ID 4154
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 56 of 73 Pg ID 4155
( $ 5 6 , 3 0 0 v s . $ 3 3 , 0 0 0 ) a n d u n e m p l o y m e n t ( 6 . 4 % v s . 1 5 . 1 % ) w h i l e t h e m a r r i a g e
g a p i s s l i g h t l y n e g a t i v e f o r w o m e n i n t e r m s o f i n c o m e ( $ 2 5 , 4 0 0 v s . $ 2 8 , 2 0 0 ) b u t
s t i l l p o s i t i v e i n t e r m s o f u n e m p l o y m e n t ( 6 . 1 % v s . 1 0 . 2 % ) . W h i l e t h e p e r s o n a l
i n c o m e o f m a r r i e d w o m e n i s l o w e r t h a n n o n - m a r r i e d w o m e n t h e f a m i l y i n c o m e i s
m u c h l a r g e r ( $ 8 4 , 3 0 0 v s . $ 3 9 , 6 0 0 ) a n d t h i s i s e s p e c i a l l y t r u e i f I j u s t r e s t r i c t t h e
s a m p l e t o w o m e n w h o a r e p a r t o f a c o u p l e ( $ 8 5 , 5 0 0 v s . $ 2 7 , 4 0 0 ) . A d j u s t i n g t h e s e
d i f f e r e n c e s b y d e m o g r a p h i c c h a r a c t e r i s t i c s r e d u c e s b o t h t h e i n c o m e a n d
u n e m p l o y m e n t g a p i n h a l f .
2 2 . T o t r a n s l a t e t h e s e i n c o m e n u m b e r s i n t o s t a t e i n c o m e t a x r e v e n u e s I u s e d t h e
T a x s i m p r o g r a m d e v e l o p e d b y t h e N a t i o n a l B u r e a u o f E c o n o m i c R e s e a r c h . T h i s
p r o g r a m t a k e s i n t o a c c o u n t t h e d i f f e r e n t i a l w a y i n w h i c h t h e t a x c o d e t r e a t s
p e r s o n s f i l i n g a n i n d i v i d u a l o r j o i n t t a x r e t u r n . I f i n d t h a t t h e t a x r e v e n u e f o r t h e
a v e r a g e i n c o m e o f a s i n g l e m a l e i n t h e s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n w o u l d b e $ 1 , 2 6 5 a n d t h e
t a x r e v e n u e a v e r a g e i n c o m e o f a s i n g l e f e m a l e w o u l d b e $ 1 , 0 4 9 . I n c o n t r a s t , a
m a r r i e d c o u p l e m a k i n g t h e a v e r a g e i n c o m e f o r t h i s g r o u p w o u l d j o i n t l y b e
p a y i n g a s t a t e i n c o m e t a x o f $ 3 , 3 3 1 .
M a r r i a g e a n d p u b l i c e x p e n d i t u r e s o n c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e a n d h e a l t h c a r e
2 3 . M a r r i a g e c h a n g e s t h e b e h a v i o r o f a d u l t s t h a t c a n p r o d u c e c o s t s s a v i n g s t o t h e
s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n b y r e d u c i n g t h e e x p e n d i t u r e s o f v a r i o u s g o v e r n m e n t p r o g r a m s .
T h e m o s t d i r e c t i m p a c t o f m a r r i a g e i s o n t h e c o s t s i n v o l v e d w i t h t h e c r i m i n a l
j u s t i c e s y s t e m . P r o b a b l y o n e o f t h e m o s t e x t e n s i v e a n d r i g o r o u s s t u d i e s o n t h e
e f f e c t s o f m a r r i a g e o n c r i m i n a l b e h a v i o r w a s c o n d u c t e d b y S a m p s o n , L a u b , a n d
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2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 60 of 73 Pg ID 4159
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1 0
1 0
1 1
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2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 64 of 73 Pg ID 4163
i n c e n t i v e s e m b e d d e d i n t h e t a x c o d e o r t h e d i r e c t c o s t s o f g e t t i n g m a r r i e d
p r o v i d e s u p p o r t i n g e v i d e n c e t h a t e c o n o m i c i n c e n t i v e s h a v e r e a l i m p a c t s o n t h e
d e c i s i o n t o m a r r y .
T h e e x a c t s i z e o f t h e e c o n o m i c i n c e n t i v e c r e a t e d b y t h i s p o l i c y w i l l v a r y a c r o s s
c o u p l e s b a s e d o n t h e o t h e r o p p o r t u n i t i e s t h a t a r e a v a i l a b l e t o t h e p a r t n e r o f t h e
p u b l i c e m p l o y e e . H o w e v e r , f o r m a n y c o u p l e s t h e e c o n o m i c i n c e n t i v e s o f r e c e i v i n g
h e a l t h i n s u r a n c e b e n e f i t s t h r o u g h a s p o u s e w i l l b e r a t h e r l a r g e a n d a t l e a s t a s
l a r g e a s t h e e c o n o m i c i n c e n t i v e s d i s c u s s e d i n t h e p r i o r r e s e a r c h o n t h i s i s s u e .
T h e p l a i n t i f f s n o t e t h a t t h e " c o s t s o f d o m e s t i c - p a r t n e r b e n e f i t s t o p u b l i c
e m p l o y e r s a r e l i m i t e d b e c a u s e , a m o n g o t h e r r e a s o n s , t h e p o o l o f l e s b i a n a n d
g a y
e m p l o y e e s u s u a l l y i s v e r y s m a l l , a n d n o t a l l e m p l o y e e s i n s a m e - s e x r e l a t i o n s h i p s
e n r o l l i n s u c h c o v e r a g e . " T h i s e x p l a n a t i o n i s f a u l t y f o r t w o r e a s o n s . F i r s t , i t
i g n o r e s t h a t f a c t t h a t t h e l a w c h a n g e a p p l i e s t o u n m a r r i e d o p p o s i t e - s e x c o u p l e s
a s w e l l a n d t h e r e a r e 1 1 t i m e s a s m a n y u n m a r r i e d o p p o s i t e - s e x c o u p l e s a s t h e r e
a r e s a m e - s e x c o u p l e s i n t h e s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n . S e c o n d , i t i g n o r e s t h e u n i n t e n d e d
c o n s e q u e n c e s o f u n d e r m i n i n g m a r r i a g e a n d i n c r e a s i n g t h e r e l a t i v e i n c e n t i v e o f
o p p o s i t e - s e x c o u p l e s t o c o h a b i t i n s t e a d o f m a r r y . T h e s o c i a l a n d e c o n o m i c c o s t s o f
u n d e r m i n i n g m a r r i a g e a m o n g o p p o s i t e - s e x c o u p l e s c o n s t i t u t e a m u c h l a r g e r
e c o n o m i c c o n s i d e r a t i o n s i n c e t h e r e a r e 1 5 0 t i m e s a s m a n y o p p o s i t e - s e x c o u p l e s
i n t h e s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n a s t h e r e a r e s a m e - s e x c o u p l e s . T h u s w h i l e t h e
a r g u m e n t s p r o v i d e d b y t h e P l a i n t i f f s f o c u s o n t h e e f f e c t s o f t h e P u b l i c E m p l o y e e
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 65 of 73 Pg ID 4164
D o m e s t i c P a r t n e r B e n e f i t R e s t r i c t i o n A c t h a s o n s a m e - s e x c o u p l e s . T h e y i g n o r e
t h e b e n e f i c i a l s o c i a l a n d e c o n o m i c e f f e c t s t h e l a w h a s f o r t h e s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n .
V I . C o n c l u s i o n s
R e s t r i c t i n g p u b l i c e m p l o y e r p r o v i d e d h e a l t h c a r e b e n e f i t s t o m a r r i e d c o u p l e s h a s
t h e e f f e c t o f f o s t e r i n g m a r r i a g e a s d e f i n e d b y M i c h i g a n ' s C o n s t i t u t i o n , t h a t i s
b e t w e e n o n e m a n a n d o n e w o m a n . M a r r i a g e p r o v i d e s e c o n o m i c b e n e f i t s t o t h e
s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n b y r e d u c i n g w e l f a r e p a y m e n t s , i n c r e a s i n g t a x r e v e n u e , a n d
r e d u c i n g c o s t s i n c u r r e d b y t h e s t a t e r e l a t e d t o c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e a n d h e a l t h c a r e .
A c o u p l e ' s d e c i s i o n t o m a r r y i s a f f e c t e d b y c h a n g e s i n t h e b e n e f i t s o f m a r r i a g e
a n d t h e b e n e f i t s a f f o r d e d t o a l t e r n a t i v e a r r a n g e m e n t s , s u c h a s c o h a b i t a t i o n .
R e s t r i c t i n g p a r t n e r h e a l t h b e n e f i t s t o m a r r i e d c o u p l e s c r e a t e s a n a d d i t i o n a l
i n c e n t i v e f o r c o u p l e s t o m a r r y a n d t h i s d e c i s i o n t o m a r r y p r o d u c e s e c o n o m i c
b e n e f i t s f o r t h e s t a t e o f M i c h i g a n . E x t e n d i n g t h e s e b e n e f i t s t o c o h a b i t i n g c o u p l e s
i n c r e a s e s t h e d i r e c t c o s t s t o p u b l i c e m p l o y e r s t o c o v e r t h e s e b e n e f i t s a n d
i n c r e a s e s t h e r e l a t i v e i n c e n t i v e t o c o h a b i t i n s t e a d o f m a r r y . W h i l e t h e p l a n t i f f s
a r g u m e n t s f o c u s o n t h e d i r e c t e f f e c t s o n s a m e - s e x c o u p l e s , t h e y i g n o r e t h e e f f e c t s
o v e r t u r n i n g t h e l a w w o u l d h a v e o n t h e 9 2 % o f u n m a r r i e d c o u p l e s i n M i c h i g a n
t h a t a r e o p p o s i t e - s e x a n d a n y s o c i a l a n d e c o n o m i c b e n e f i t s t o t h e s t a t e i t s e l f .
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 66 of 73 Pg ID 4165
D a t e d : D e c e m b e r 1 6 , 2 0 1 3
B y :
J o s e p h P r i c e ,
P h D
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 67 of 73 Pg ID 4166
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 68 of 73 Pg ID 4167
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 69 of 73 Pg ID 4168
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 70 of 73 Pg ID 4169
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 71 of 73 Pg ID 4170
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 72 of 73 Pg ID 4171
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-28 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 73 of 73 Pg ID 4172
Exhibit 15
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 1 of 37 Pg ID 4173
Page 1
1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
2
SOUTHERN DIVISION
3
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4
)
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL )
5
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE )
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and )
6
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK BLOSS and)
GERARDO ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER)
7
and MICHELLE JOHNSON, )
)
8
Plaintiffs, )
)
9
-vs- )File No.
)2:12-cv-10038
10
RICHARD SNYDER, in his )JUDGE LAWSON
official capacity as Governor )MAG. HLUCHANIUK
11
of the State of Michigan, )
)
12
Defendant. )
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
13
14
D E P O S I T I O N
15
of JEROME POST, a witness called by Defendant, taken
16
before Melinda S. Nardone, Certified Shorthand Reporter
17
and Notary Public, at 241 West South Street, Kalamazoo,
18
Michigan, on Thursday, February 6, 2014, noticed for the
19
hour of 10:00 a.m.
20
21
HECKAMAN & NARDONE, INC.
22
Certified Shorthand Reporters
P.O. Box 27603
23
Lansing, Michigan 48909
(517) 349-0847
24
Fax: (517) 244-0805
msnardone5@gmail.com
25
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 2 of 37 Pg ID 4174
Page 2
1
APPEARANCES:
2
KIRKLAND & ELLIS, LLP
300 North LaSalle
3
Chicago, Illinois 60654
By
4
DEBRA LEFLER, J.D.
5
On behalf of Plaintiffs.
6
MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF ATTORNEY GENERAL
State Operations Division
7
525 West Ottawa Street
2nd Floor
8
Lansing, Michigan 48909
By
9
ROCK WOOD, J.D.
10
On behalf of Defendant.
11
CITY OF KALAMAZOO
241 West South Street
12
Kalamazoo, Michigan 49007
By
13
CLYDE J. ROBINSON, J.D.
14
On behalf of City of Kalamazoo.
15
Also present: Tom Skrobola
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 3 of 37 Pg ID 4175
Page 4
1
Kalamazoo, Michigan
2
Thursday, February 6, 2014
3
10:10 a.m.
4
R E C O R D
5
JEROME POST,
6
MR. WOOD: Let the record reflect that this
7
is the time and place for the deposition, the rule
8
30(b)(6) deposition of the City of Kalamazoo pursuant to
9
deposition notice and subpoena served upon the City and
10
the various parties. We have actually two witnesses
11
here today from the City who are each apparently, I'm
12
informed, knowledgeable about certain areas so we'll ask
13
each of them about the areas for which they have
14
knowledge.
15
EXAMINATION
16
BY MR. WOOD:
17
Q. Sir, could you state your name for the record,
18
please?
19
A. That is Jerome Post.
20
Q. And what is your position with the City?
21
A. I am the human resources and labor relations
22
director.
23
Q. And have you ever had your deposition taken
24
before?
25
A. Yes, I have.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 4 of 37 Pg ID 4176
Page 6
1
A. No.
2
Q. What have been the positions you've held with the
3
City?
4
A. I was hired in as the labor relations specialist.
5
I was promoted in 2006, I believe, to assistant
6
director. And in September of 2007 I was made interim
7
human resources director and placed in the permanent
8
position, regular position, in January of 2008.
9
Q. And you've held the position since then?
10
A. Correct.
11
Q. And what do your duties include in that position?
12
A. I oversee a staff of currently six people
13
covering benefits and compensation, labor relations,
14
training and development, and quite a range of other HR
15
duties.
16
Q. Now, we sent out a deposition subpoena and notice
17
to the City and I'm going to show you a copy of that,
18
we're going to mark it as an exhibit. Would you mark
19
that please?
20
(Whereupon Deposition Exhibit No. 1
21
marked for identification.)
22
BY MR. WOOD:
23
Q. We've marked the deposition notice and 30(b)(6)
24
deposition notice and subpoena as Exhibit 1. Have you
25
seen that before today?
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 5 of 37 Pg ID 4177
Page 7
1
A. Yes, I have.
2
Q. And that asks that the City be able to produce
3
someone who could answer certain questions and to
4
produce certain information including the City of
5
Kalamazoo's current OQA adult benefit criteria, do you
6
see that?
7
A. Yes.
8
Q. And where would we find that criteria? I think I
9
believe I asked you if you brought that with you and you
10
said you had not, correct?
11
A. That is correct.
12
Q. Are you able to readily obtain that?
13
A. I believe so.
14
Q. And where would you go to obtain that?
15
A. That would be in the second floor of city hall
16
here in the human resources office.
17
Q. So if we wanted to get a current copy of that
18
could you have someone go down and get a copy for us?
19
A. I believe so.
20
MR. WOOD: Let me mark this exhibit as
21
Exhibit 2 and I'll tell you what this is.
22
(Whereupon Deposition Exhibit No. 2
23
marked for identification.)
24
BY MR. WOOD:
25
Q. This document states that it's called City of
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 6 of 37 Pg ID 4178
Page 8
1
Kalamazoo program criteria: Other qualified adult, and
2
this was attached to some of the plaintiff's pleadings
3
in this case back in 2012. I don't know if it reflects
4
what is currently the City's other qualified adult
5
benefit criteria, but by looking at that are you able to
6
tell if that's the current policy or not?
7
A. I believe it is.
8
Q. And the second page would be the current form of
9
affidavit that the City uses?
10
A. Correct.
11
Q. So it hasn't changed since 2012, then, correct?
12
A. Correct.
13
Q. In order to prepare for your deposition today
14
what, if anything, did you do other than talking to the
15
City's attorney?
16
A. I reviewed the affidavit that was filed by the
17
former city manager, Ken Collard, and refreshed my
18
memory on some of the details that were presented to the
19
court. And the way I did that was by looking through
20
files that we have in the human resources office on the
21
development of the original domestic partner benefits
22
that evolved into the other qualified adult benefit.
23
Q. And are those files here in this building?
24
A. Yes, they are.
25
Q. And what specifically are the files that led to
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 7 of 37 Pg ID 4179
Page 10
1
A. Sure.
2
Q. Now, on the other qualified adult benefit program
3
or policy that was passed or implemented by the City of
4
Kalamazoo, did you have any role in that?
5
A. I did.
6
Q. And what role did you have?
7
A. It was to inform and advise the city manager as
8
to the development of legislative action and decisions
9
from the city attorney -- excuse me, state attorney
10
general's office regarding the implementation of
11
domestic partner benefits.
12
Q. And when you say your role was to inform, was
13
that done in writing?
14
A. Generally it was verbal. There may be some old
15
emails along the way about dates.
16
Q. And those would be emails between you and the
17
city manager?
18
A. Correct.
19
Q. And would you still have those in your or the
20
City's file?
21
A. That I don't know.
22
Q. And what year would you have been informing or
23
advising the city manager regarding the City's OQA
24
policy?
25
A. Regarding the OQA policy specifically would have
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 8 of 37 Pg ID 4180
Page 11
1
been in 2007.
2
Q. Is that the year that the City implemented the
3
OQA policy?
4
A. Yes, it is.
5
Q. And were you involved in the actual meetings
6
where the City voted upon and passed the policy, the OQA
7
policy?
8
A. To answer that question I would have to clarify
9
that there were no votes taken to pass a policy, it was
10
an administrative action by the city manager.
11
Q. So under the City's rules and guidelines the OQA
12
policy did not require a vote of the city council or the
13
city commission?
14
A. Correct.
15
Q. And was the city manager at the time Mr. Collard?
16
A. Yes.
17
Q. Do you know what, if any, information Mr. Collard
18
was provided with or considered prior to implementing
19
the OQA policy?
20
A. In particular Mr. Collard was informed of an
21
opinion by then state attorney general, who opined that
22
although the constitutional amendment that was passed
23
barring recognition of any same sex marriages for any
24
reason, he also opined that if the City's policy were to
25
include non -- or heterosexual couples or any single
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 9 of 37 Pg ID 4181
Page 12
1
person or adult in the household that the policy would
2
not be in violation of the constitutional amendment.
3
Q. Prior to 2007 what, if any, policy did the City
4
have relative to domestic partners or other qualified
5
adults?
6
A. The City had a domestic partner benefits policy
7
that provided health and dental insurance to same sex
8
partners of city employees.
9
Q. And as the policy was implemented in 2007 how did
10
it change from the prior policy?
11
A. It expanded the policy to first allow for any
12
adult living in the household of a city employee under a
13
particular criteria that has been identified in Exhibit
14
2 as being eligible for coverage under the City's health
15
insurance plan.
16
Q. And if we take a moment to look at Exhibit 2,
17
which is the OQA criteria that you just referenced, I'd
18
like to ask a few questions about that.
19
A. Okay.
20
Q. On page one of Exhibit 2, item number one, among
21
the criteria or the eligibility requirements it says
22
that number one is the applicant must produce evidence
23
that the employee and other qualified adults share a
24
common principal residence having done so for at least
25
twelve consecutive months; do you see that?
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 10 of 37 Pg ID 4182
Page 14
1
Q. As the HR and labor director, would it be within
2
your role or scope of responsibilities to oversee or
3
implement the OQA policy for the City?
4
A. Yes.
5
Q. What would you understand requirement number two
6
in the program criteria here in Exhibit 2 to reference?
7
A. My understanding would be that the persons not be
8
legally married under state law, nor would they be
9
directly -- let me see if I can say the right word,
10
direct children or direct dependents that would be
11
recognized as inheritors if there were no spouse
12
currently alive or eligible.
13
Q. In implementing the OQA policy, have you ever had
14
an instance where you were called upon to interpret
15
point number two?
16
A. No.
17
Q. What is your understanding of requirement number
18
five of the City's OQA policy?
19
A. My understanding of point number five is that
20
neither employee nor the qualified adult are considered
21
dependents as defined by the Internal Revenue Service.
22
Q. So in order to be eligible under the City of
23
Kalamazoo other qualified adult benefit coverage, the
24
two parties, meaning the employee and the other
25
qualified adult, would not be financially
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 11 of 37 Pg ID 4183
Page 20
1
Sessions.
2
Q. And when you say vice-president of the
3
organization, you mean of Mercer?
4
A. Of Mercer, yes.
5
Q. And do you know how to spell her last name?
6
A. S-e-s-s-i-o-n-s.
7
Q. And is that the only audit of individuals who
8
have applied for benefits under the OQA policy that
9
you're aware of?
10
A. Yes.
11
Q. Is there any collective bargaining agreement or
12
other contract that would preclude, to your
13
understanding, the City of Kalamazoo from terminating
14
the OQA policy now that it's been implemented?
15
A. Yes.
16
Q. And what would that be?
17
A. There are five bargaining units in the City and
18
each of them have language in their contracts providing
19
the other qualified language.
20
Q. So, for example, when or if there were a legal
21
ruling that OQA benefits were not permissible under the
22
law, would the City then be able to terminate that
23
policy?
24
MR. ROBINSON: Objection, calls for a legal
25
conclusion.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 12 of 37 Pg ID 4184
Page 21
1
BY MR. WOOD:
2
Q. To the best of your understanding?
3
A. To the best of my understanding the contracts
4
that are in place must run their course and expire, at
5
which point we would no longer be able to offer the
6
benefits. I will clarify, however, that in recent
7
negotiations we have included language in at least one
8
of the contracts that I'm aware of that states that, as
9
soon as the benefits are deemed to be illegal, that they
10
end immediately as opposed to at the end of the
11
contract.
12
Q. And which of the five CPAs does that language
13
appear in?
14
A. That would appear in the KMEA or Kalamazoo
15
Municipal Employees Association.
16
Q. And what are the other four collective bargaining
17
agreements or groups?
18
A. The other four include the ATU or Amalgamated
19
Transit Union; AFSCME, American Federation of State,
20
County, and Municipal Employers; the KPSOA, which is the
21
Kalamazoo Public Safety Officers Association; and the
22
KPSA, the Kalamazoo Police Supervisors Association.
23
Q. The third paragraph of the affidavit states that
24
extending benefits may have tax consequences; do you see
25
that language?
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 13 of 37 Pg ID 4185
Page 22
1
A. Yes, sir.
2
Q. In your experience has the City of Kalamazoo
3
reported any tax consequences to either the employee or
4
the other qualified adult as a result of any benefits
5
obtained by those individuals under the City's OQA
6
policy?
7
A. Yes.
8
Q. And what has the City reported in that regard?
9
A. The City has reported or communicated to the
10
beneficiaries or the employees who received the benefit
11
that the tax -- their income is taxed based on the
12
monetary value of the benefit, both for state and
13
federal purposes.
14
Q. And do you know what the benefit -- strike that,
15
I'm sorry. Do you know what the value of that benefit
16
is on an individual's tax reporting; is it standard per
17
employee?
18
A. I don't have that information.
19
Q. And do you know who would have that information?
20
A. Either our management services director, Tom
21
Skrobola, or the benefits specialist, John Buchtrup.
22
Q. Do you know the form in which that is reported?
23
A. I know that it is verbal. When employees sign up
24
for the benefits John Buchtrup notifies people what the
25
tax implications are. I don't know if it's written or
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 14 of 37 Pg ID 4186
Page 24
1
benefits.
2
Q. Anything else that you can remember?
3
A. Not that I recall.
4
Q. Do you know if any of those communications were
5
written?
6
A. Only in email form.
7
Q. Would you still have any of those emails?
8
A. No, it was so long ago.
9
Q. Do you know approximately what year or years it
10
was?
11
A. It had to be shortly after the referendum in
12
2004, so it would have been late 2004 into 2005. And
13
then again around 2006 or 7 when the legislation was
14
introduced to bar the benefits altogether.
15
Q. Did Mr. Kaplan initiate the communications or did
16
your office?
17
A. No, Mr. Kaplan did.
18
Q. And did he say why he was initiating those
19
communications?
20
A. He was looking for support in particular in
21
testimony in a house subcommittee meeting when the
22
legislation was being considered to bar the benefits.
23
Q. And did anybody on behalf of the City provide any
24
support or testimony?
25
A. Yes, I did.
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Page 25
1
Q. And what is it that you provided?
2
A. I testified to the house subcommittee on behalf
3
of the city manager that the City of Kalamazoo felt it
4
was better for us to be able to provide those benefits
5
and the reasons for them.
6
Q. And what was the particular subcommittee that you
7
were in front of?
8
A. I really don't remember the name of it.
9
Q. You don't know what year that was?
10
A. I believe that would have been fall of -- I don't
11
remember the year. It would have been the fall prior to
12
Governor Snyder signing the bill into law, which was
13
December, I believe, two years ago.
14
Q. Did anyone go to the subcommittee meeting with
15
you?
16
A. No.
17
Q. Did you have to have any approval by your
18
employer to go?
19
A. Define approval.
20
Q. Well, did you have to go -- did you have to ask
21
anybody or let anybody know that you were going?
22
A. I let the city manager know I was going, yes.
23
Q. And did he approve that or agree with it?
24
A. Yes, he did.
25
Q. Are you aware of what the rationale was on behalf
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Page 26
1
of the City for implementing the OQA benefits?
2
A. Yes.
3
Q. And what was the City's rationale?
4
A. The City was working to be able to recruit and
5
retain talented individuals, particularly into key
6
positions that we have in the past recruited either
7
regionally or nationally.
8
Q. And what would those positions be?
9
A. It would include positions such as city manager,
10
deputy and assistant city managers, department
11
directors.
12
Q. Have any of those particular individuals obtained
13
any OQA benefits?
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. How many?
16
A. We currently have a total of six employees who
17
receive the benefits. Not all of them are in that level
18
of the position -- of the organization, however.
19
Q. Do you know how many are in that level?
20
A. I do.
21
Q. And how many?
22
A. There's one department director. There are two
23
key employees who, although are not department
24
directors, hold the position of special interest within
25
the City.
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Page 27
1
Q. And why is that of special interest when you say
2
of special interest?
3
A. Well, one in particular is a person in the
4
informational technology arena or department that has
5
special talents and has worked with the City for some
6
time. A second one is in the finance area of the City
7
that holds a key position relative to revenue with the
8
City.
9
Q. When the City hired those employees in the IT
10
area and the finance area or these six positions, did
11
the City have more than one application submitted for
12
filling those positions?
13
A. Yes.
14
Q. Did the City go through a competitive interview
15
process?
16
A. Yes.
17
Q. Did the City have multiple applicants from which
18
to choose?
19
A. Yes.
20
Q. For example, for the City finance position, were
21
you involved in the hiring for that position?
22
A. No.
23
Q. Do you know approximately how many applicants
24
there were for that position?
25
A. I do not.
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Page 28
1
Q. For the IT position, do you know how many
2
applicants there were?
3
A. No.
4
Q. Has the City undertaken any study or data to be
5
able to determine whether it could not fill positions in
6
the absence of the OQA policy?
7
A. No study was done, no.
8
Q. Is there any study or data or evidence at the
9
City to be able to prove that the City would not be able
10
to retain employees to fill these positions without the
11
OQA policy?
12
A. No official study was done, no.
13
Q. Have you undertaken any unofficial study?
14
A. No.
15
Q. Do you have any evidence by which to prove or
16
show that the City, in the absence of the OQA policy,
17
would not have those six positions filled where the
18
employees have obtained OQA benefits?
19
A. Yes.
20
Q. And what evidence do you have?
21
A. My own personal evidence.
22
Q. And what is that personal evidence?
23
A. I am one of the six people who are receiving the
24
benefits.
25
Q. Okay.
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Page 29
1
A. When I hired in in 2001 I was being recruited
2
also by two private sector firms who were actually much
3
closer to my own house when I lived by the lakeshore at
4
that time, by Lake Michigan lakeshore. I had a choice
5
of pursuing either one of those two private sector
6
employments or the one with the City of Kalamazoo, who
7
offered the benefits at the time. Because of those
8
benefits I chose to pursue the City.
9
Q. Did the two private employers offer the benefits?
10
A. No, they did not.
11
Q. Other than your personal experience do you have
12
any other evidence to support that -- to support the
13
position that the City would not be able to hire or
14
retain any employees to fill any of those six positions?
15
A. No.
16
Q. Do you have any evidence to say that the City
17
could not have filled your position with another
18
individual were it not to have the OQA policy?
19
A. No.
20
Q. When you were hired, was it a competitive
21
interview process on behalf of the City?
22
A. Yes, it was.
23
Q. Were there multiple applicants?
24
A. Yes, there were.
25
Q. Do you know of or have any evidence where the
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 20 of 37 Pg ID 4192
Page 30
1
City has quantified numerically the value of the OQA
2
policy, if any?
3
A. I believe it has.
4
Q. And what would that evidence be?
5
A. Just a simple analysis as to what the benefit has
6
cost the City.
7
Q. Let me approach it slightly different. I think
8
I'm asking something a little different. Has the City
9
ever undertaken to identify any specific value to the
10
City, quantifiable, by virtue of having the OQA policy?
11
A. I can't say that there's ever been any formal
12
study to that effect, no.
13
Q. Is there any evidence or numerical data of any
14
sort that you're aware of?
15
A. I am aware of the work that has been done by the
16
six employees who are covered by the benefit, and in
17
particular my own case where I can identify monies that
18
the City has saved and even cost avoidance in the health
19
care systems by the work that I have done.
20
Q. Would it be part of the job duties of your
21
position and the other five employees to provide value
22
to the City and to pursue cost savings and risk
23
avoidance and cost avoidance for the City?
24
A. Yes.
25
Q. And would that be true of whoever filled that
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Page 31
1
position regardless of whether there was an OQA policy
2
with the City?
3
A. I believe so, yes.
4
Q. Other than stating that those six employees
5
provide work and benefit to the City as part of their
6
normal job duties of those positions, are you aware of
7
any evidence quantifiable in terms of numbers or dollars
8
where the City has actually identified any value to the
9
City of the OQA policy?
10
A. No.
11
Q. In your experience, is one of the fastest growing
12
areas of costs in terms of benefit to the City health
13
care costs?
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. Have you ever spoken with an individual by the
16
name of Badgett or Doctor Badgett?
17
A. No.
18
Q. Of the six individuals who have applied for and
19
obtained OQA benefits, do you know how many are or have
20
obtained benefits for an OQA that was same sex as
21
compared to an OQA who was opposite sex?
22
A. I believe I have that knowledge and it was
23
presented to me by John Buchtrup, so if I may refer to a
24
document that he had given me.
25
Q. Okay.
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Page 32
1
A. Of the six individuals there are four that are
2
opposite sex and two that are -- excuse me, one, two,
3
three, four, yup, four that are opposite sex.
4
Q. And two would have same sex OQAs?
5
A. Correct.
6
Q. Now, are there any dependent or dependents as
7
OQAs, in other words, does any employee have an OQA
8
partner who has a dependent such that of those six any
9
would be dependents or minors?
10
A. As I understand our policy the children or
11
dependents of the OQA are not eligible for coverage, but
12
the children of the employee are, but they would be
13
under the general policy anyway.
14
Q. So they would be covered or potentially covered
15
even if there was no OQA policy, the children of the
16
employee?
17
A. Correct, right.
18
Q. And the children of the OQA are not eligible
19
under the OQA policy even though it exists?
20
A. I believe that's correct, yes.
21
Q. So as far as the City of Kalamazoo, the
22
dependents or children of the OQA really don't fall into
23
the equation of the cost or benefit of the OQA policy,
24
correct?
25
A. That's my understanding.
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Page 37
1
A. Yes.
2
Q. I take it the information in paragraph four would
3
still be accurate because that's historical information,
4
correct?
5
A. Correct.
6
Q. It looks to be that the information in paragraph
7
five would still be accurate because it appears that the
8
current criteria for the City are the same, right?
9
A. I believe so, yes.
10
Q. Let's just step back to Exhibit 3 for a moment so
11
that I have identified what this chart is for the
12
record. And, excuse me, I can't recall if I asked you
13
who created this because there was a little break in the
14
action there while it was being copied, but who created
15
this document?
16
A. It was created by our benefits specialist, John
17
Buchtrup.
18
Q. And what was the purpose of this document?
19
A. I had asked him to update me or provide some
20
information that was requested in the original notice of
21
deposition.
22
Q. And that's been marked as Exhibit Number 1,
23
correct?
24
A. Correct.
25
Q. And what information requested in Exhibit Number
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1
$2400 to cover himself and also $2400 to cover the OQA
2
if he had one; in other words, is the cost to cover
3
yourself and the cost to cover an OQA the same amount
4
per individual?
5
A. It is inclusive of the OQA and the employee.
6
Q. Okay.
7
A. It's a total cost.
8
Q. Okay. So, for example, in number one, if we had
9
an individual in the NBU group in 2008 who wanted to get
10
insurance for himself and his OQA, the total cost for
11
the two of them would be $2400?
12
A. Correct.
13
Q. How would we be able to determine what the cost,
14
the additional cost, to add the OQA was?
15
A. In the second section you will see what the
16
normal cost of the -- I should say the normal
17
contribution out of paycheck from the employee on a
18
monthly basis. You'd have to annualize that to compare
19
the two.
20
Q. Now, that says in the second column, for example,
21
it says two party/per month, and then in the next column
22
it says family/per month. Am I correct in understanding
23
this, if there was two individuals, for example, an
24
employee and an OQA, in 19- -- I'm sorry, in 2008 the
25
cost would be $91 for those two individuals per month?
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Page 40
1
A. Correct.
2
Q. What would it be for one individual per month?
3
A. I don't recall what it was back then.
4
Q. Would there be a way that we could identify what
5
the additional cost per month to add one person such as
6
an OQA would be, what the incremental addition would be?
7
Does that question make sense to you?
8
A. Maybe not.
9
Q. I'm trying to figure out if you just had the
10
individual employee as compared to the individual
11
employee plus an OQA, what's the difference in those two
12
costs? Because there must be something additional to
13
add the OQA.
14
A. Right, and I don't know that I can answer that
15
myself. That might be a better question for John
16
Buchtrup.
17
Q. And then in the third section of Exhibit 3 what
18
is it that we see?
19
A. The third section shows the number of other
20
qualified adults that are in the plan and the level of
21
coverage that they have.
22
Q. Okay. So, for example, if -- let me see now, in
23
January of 2014 we know that there are a total of six
24
employees who have obtained OQA benefits because that's
25
at the bottom of the second column, correct?
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 26 of 37 Pg ID 4198
Page 41
1
A. Correct.
2
Q. And so there would be one from the ATU group, one
3
from the KME group, from one -- I'm sorry, two from the
4
NBU group, and two from the AFSCME group, correct?
5
A. Correct.
6
Q. And we would know from the asterisk to the far
7
left column whether it's one asterisk it would be
8
opposite sex OQA and if it's two asterisks it would be
9
legally married same sex, correct?
10
A. Correct.
11
Q. And then the --
12
MR. ROBINSON: Can I have a break for a
13
moment, I'd like to confer with Mr. Post?
14
MR. WOOD: Sure, okay.
15
(Off the record.)
16
MR. WOOD: Back on the record.
17
BY MR. WOOD:
18
Q. I don't think we left off with a question, we
19
didn't have a question dangling, did we? Was there
20
anything we needed to clarify or add to?
21
MR. ROBINSON: I think the reporter probably
22
can tell us best.
23
MR. WOOD: Okay, I didn't know if you had
24
taken a break because you wanted to have him correct
25
something. That's why I wasn't sure, I was just giving
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Page 45
1
Q. And then in item number two it asks for the
2
number of other qualified adults provided medical
3
insurance benefits by the City, including the number
4
that are opposite sex partners and the number that are
5
same sex partners and the number of OQA dependents also
6
covered. And between Exhibit 3 and your testimony we've
7
addressed that, correct?
8
A. Correct.
9
Q. The City -- number three is the City's costs to
10
provide coverage for OQA employees and employee OQA-
11
OQAs, which are dependents, each fiscal year beginning
12
in 2008 and you indicated that if we wanted that
13
information we could either perhaps ask the next witness
14
or we could ask the city attorney for the Mercer report,
15
correct?
16
A. Correct.
17
Q. And would the Mercer report only include one year
18
of information?
19
A. Yes, it would.
20
Q. If we wanted to know the cost of the City to
21
provide coverage for employees or their OQA for each
22
year beginning 2008, is there another document that
23
would have that cost?
24
A. Yes, there would be a report for each of those
25
years.
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Page 54
1
original domestic partner benefits plan you would not
2
have been employed by the City, true?
3
A. That is true.
4
Q. It looks like it was done roughly a year or so
5
prior to you first starting, correct?
6
A. Correct.
7
Q. In paragraph 20, the seventh line, there's a
8
statement that says -- well, let me just read the
9
sentence, this philosophy has had a return on investment
10
in the form of quality of employees participating in the
11
domestic partner and other qualified adult insurance
12
plans who have saved the City literally millions of
13
dollars through the work they have done since the
14
implementation of domestic partner benefits; do you see
15
that sentence?
16
A. Yes, sir.
17
Q. Do you know specifically what millions of dollars
18
are being referred to there?
19
A. Yes, I do.
20
Q. What are the millions of dollars?
21
A. That would be the millions of dollars saved in
22
retiree health care costs through bargaining with
23
bargaining units to change the retiree health care plans
24
that I believe Mr. Skrobola will be able to support in
25
terms of the amount of money that the City has saved in
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1
cost avoidance with the increased cost of health care
2
that is projected over years.
3
Q. In other words, one or more of the OQA related
4
employees had a role in those negotiations?
5
A. Correct.
6
Q. And that would have been something that who was
7
ever -- whoever was in that employment position, whether
8
they had an OQA or not, would have had those job duties,
9
correct?
10
A. They would have been expected to reduce health
11
care costs, yes.
12
Q. As part of their normal job duties?
13
A. Correct.
14
Q. So when you're referring to the millions of
15
dollars, those are the typical duties of those job
16
positions where an employee has applied for or involving
17
an employee who has applied for OQA benefits, correct?
18
A. I wouldn't necessarily call them typical duties.
19
Q. They would be duties that would be expected of an
20
employee in those positions?
21
A. Yes.
22
Q. Other than yourself in paragraph 21 do you know
23
of any specific employee who has been particularly
24
recruited because of an OQA policy, any number?
25
A. Not to my knowledge.
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Page 56
1
Q. Do you know of any specific number of employees
2
who has been retained because of the OQA policy other
3
than yourself?
4
A. That would be my opinion and I don't know that
5
you want my opinion on that as opposed to specific
6
knowledge.
7
Q. Okay. Other than your opinion, do you have any
8
data or affirmative statement or evidence that we could
9
look at that would say that any specific number of
10
employees other than yourself have been retained by the
11
City of Kalamazoo by virtue of the OQA policy?
12
A. No.
13
Q. And would paragraphs 21 and 22 and 23 also be
14
paragraphs that you had helped Mr. Collard put together
15
for this statement?
16
A. Yes, sir.
17
Q. At the bottom of paragraph 23 it talks about the
18
costs of losing and having to rehire employees; do you
19
see that?
20
A. Yes, sir.
21
Q. Would that be true for all employees whether or
22
not they have an OQA?
23
A. Yes.
24
Q. In today's market is it more or less expensive to
25
retain -- I'm sorry, to hire a new employee than it was,
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Page 57
1
say, in 2008?
2
A. My experience has been that the cost of replacing
3
employees increases each year. I would suspect that
4
that would be a true statement.
5
Q. Do you know -- strike that. In your position you
6
have been involved in the hiring of employees by the
7
City of Kalamazoo over the past six years or more,
8
correct?
9
A. Correct.
10
Q. Would it be fair to say that there has in this
11
economy been a high number of applicants for open
12
positions with the City of Kalamazoo?
13
A. Again, that would be my opinion, and if you want
14
my opinion, I'll state that.
15
Q. Well, let me ask it this way, when the City of
16
Kalamazoo has posted job openings, have there been
17
multiple applicants who have submitted resumes or
18
applications?
19
A. Yes.
20
Q. What would be a typical number of applicants that
21
would submit applications when you post an opening at
22
the City of Kalamazoo?
23
A. It depends on the position.
24
Q. For example, say a management position?
25
A. For a management position, typical number of
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Page 58
1
applicants, my experience has been in the vicinity of 25
2
or so.
3
Q. Is there a range; is 25 the high, 25 the low, 25
4
the average?
5
A. I would say it's mid range, average, yeah.
6
Q. Do you know if surrounding municipalities such as
7
Allegan or Coldwater or Battle Creek or Jackson have
8
similar OQA benefit policies?
9
A. I honestly don't know.
10
Q. Where is Mr. Collard now?
11
A. He is retired.
12
Q. Does he live in the Kalamazoo area?
13
A. Yes, he does.
14
Q. I just have one little section I want to check
15
here. I think I've covered most of it but just to make
16
sure I cover what I'm supposed to cover here. Let me
17
just look at my notes. Has anyone asked you to prepare
18
any updated declaration or statements similar to
19
Mr. Collard's?
20
A. No.
21
Q. Do you have any plans to --
22
A. Oh, wait a minute, I take that back, I was asked
23
to provide an update to which we have not done.
24
Q. Do you plan to do that?
25
A. No.
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Page 59
1
Q. And is there any particular reason you don't plan
2
to do it?
3
A. I can't say there's any one particular reason,
4
other than I don't think there's a need for it.
5
Q. And why is that?
6
A. I think the affidavit filed by Mr. Collard
7
describes the City's position quite well. The only
8
thing that could be updated really are the financial
9
figures and that can be done via this testimony as
10
opposed to filing another affidavit. I will say as well
11
that with the retirement of Ken Collard we do have a new
12
city manager who has no knowledge whatsoever of any of
13
this subject matter and I feel it would be inappropriate
14
and unfair to him to ask him to jump in the fray at this
15
point, if you will.
16
Q. I know I have his name here somewhere. What's
17
the new city manager's name?
18
A. It's Jim Ritsema.
19
Q. And he didn't have any involvement in
20
implementing or working on implementing the OQA policy
21
for the City of Kalamazoo; is that true?
22
A. That's true.
23
Q. Are there any drafts or red line versions of
24
Mr. Collard's declaration that exist?
25
A. Not to my knowledge.
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Page 63
1
2007 was a city manager administrative action that
2
didn't require a vote; is that correct?
3
A. That's correct.
4
Q. Are you aware of whether the previous policy
5
which was implemented I believe in 2000 was also an
6
administrative action?
7
A. That is correct.
8
Q. So it did not require a vote?
9
A. Correct.
10
Q. And just one more -- a couple more questions
11
about the declaration of Mr. Collard. You testified
12
that you prepared -- you helped prepare the history and
13
benefits section; is that right?
14
A. Correct.
15
Q. And that would include paragraphs 18 through 26
16
of Mr. Collard's declaration?
17
A. Yes.
18
Q. Do these paragraphs accurately reflect the
19
information you gave Mr. Collard at the time?
20
A. I hope so, yes. Do they accurately reflect the
21
information that I gave Mr. Collard at the time? I
22
believe it does.
23
Q. Is there any reason to believe that the
24
information is not accurate?
25
A. No.
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1
Q. So if we can just look at paragraph 19, the last
2
sentence, which reads, by allowing employees to obtain
3
benefits for their OQAs, including their same sex
4
partners, the City of Kalamazoo is furthering city
5
voters' expressed preference for work place fairness to
6
gay and lesbian employees. Does that remain true today?
7
A. Yes, it does.
8
Q. And let's look at paragraph 22, the last sentence
9
there. Is it still true today that in order for the
10
City to recruit and hire the most qualified employees
11
for each position it must be able to hire from and
12
consider as broad a group of qualified individuals as
13
possible?
14
A. As I responded to questions from the other
15
attorney, I would have to say that that is my opinion
16
and as a human resources professional it is, yes.
17
Q. Okay. If we can look at also paragraph 24, which
18
reads, the signaling effect of providing these benefits
19
can have significant benefits for the local economy.
20
Does the City of Kalamazoo still believe that to be
21
true?
22
A. I can't speak for the entire City of Kalamazoo in
23
this particular case. You have to understand that as
24
described elsewhere in this document the City of
25
Kalamazoo tends to be liberal leaning and benefiting
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 36 of 37 Pg ID 4208
Page 65
1
from that liberal position in some instances. So I
2
would have to say that in that context that statement is
3
still true.
4
Q. So you're saying that providing other qualified
5
adult benefits reflects preferences on City of
6
Kalamazoo's voter population?
7
A. Yes.
8
MR. WOOD: Object to the form of the
9
question.
10
MS. LEFLER: Okay, that's all I have.
11
THE WITNESS: Okay.
12
RE-EXAMINATION
13
BY MR. WOOD:
14
Q. I just have one quick follow up question. Are
15
you aware of any study, analysis, or data to support a
16
statement that there is any particular or quantifiable
17
economic benefit to the City of Kalamazoo by virtue of
18
having the OQA policy?
19
A. I can't say there is.
20
MR. WOOD: Thank you. That's all I have.
21
Are we all done?
22
MS. LEFLER: That's it.
23
(Whereupon Deposition concluded at 11:45 a.m.)
24
25
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-29 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 37 of 37 Pg ID 4209
Exhibit 16
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 1 of 20 Pg ID 4210
Page 1
1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
2
SOUTHERN DIVISION
3
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
)
4
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL )
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE )
5
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and )
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK BLOSS and)
6
GERARDO ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER)
and MICHELLE JOHNSON, )
7
)
Plaintiffs, )
8
)
-vs- )File No.
9
)2:12-cv-10038
RICHARD SNYDER, in his )JUDGE LAWSON
10
official capacity as Governor )MAG. HLUCHANIUK
of the State of Michigan, )
11
)
Defendant. )
12
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
13
D E P O S I T I O N
14
of THOMAS SKROBOLA, a witness called by Defendant, taken
15
before Melinda S. Nardone, Certified Shorthand Reporter
16
and Notary Public, at 241 South Street, Kalamazoo,
17
Michigan, on Thursday, February 6, 2014, noticed for the
18
hour of 10:00 a.m.
19
20
HECKAMAN & NARDONE, INC.
21
Certified Shorthand Reporters
P.O. Box 27603
22
Lansing, Michigan 48909
(517) 349-0847
23
Fax: (517) 244-0805
msnardone5@gmail.com
24
25
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 2 of 20 Pg ID 4211
Page 2
1
APPEARANCES:
2
KIRKLAND & ELLIS, LLP
300 North LaSalle
3
Chicago, Illinois 60654
By
4
DEBRA LEFLER, J.D.
5
On behalf of Plaintiffs.
6
MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF ATTORNEY GENERAL
State Operations Division
7
525 West Ottawa Street
2nd Floor
8
Lansing, Michigan 48909
By
9
ROCK WOOD, J.D.
10
On behalf of Defendant.
11
CITY OF KALAMAZOO
241 West South Street
12
Kalamazoo, Michigan 49007
By
13
CLYDE J. ROBINSON, J.D.
14
On behalf of City of Kalamazoo.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 3 of 20 Pg ID 4212
Page 5
1
say yes or no, try not to talk over each other. If
2
attorneys have objections let them state those on the
3
record and then you can respond unless directed
4
otherwise by your counsel. If you don't understand a
5
question let me know, and if you answer it I'll assume
6
you understood and go from there, fair enough?
7
A. Sure.
8
Q. What is your position with the City of Kalamazoo?
9
A. I'm a director of management services/chief
10
financial officer.
11
Q. So you would be able to address financial issues
12
on behalf of the City, correct?
13
A. Yes.
14
Q. And what would fall within the scope of your
15
duties generally?
16
A. Well, generically all things financial.
17
Specifically I manage the departments -- the divisions,
18
rather, of budget and accounting: Fiscal services,
19
which is basically everything we do to pay people,
20
including paychecks, pension checks, vendor checks, et
21
cetera; treasury, which is the handling of money
22
generically, investments, pension administrator, since
23
we have our own pension system here; purchasing, which
24
manages procurement; and also assessing, which deals
25
with the valuation of property.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 4 of 20 Pg ID 4213
Page 8
1
you can just call me Tom, that's fine.
2
MR. WOOD: Okay, that's a tough one.
3
THE WITNESS: I try to challenge people to
4
guess what the C means, they never get it.
5
MR. WOOD: I'm sorry I failed the test.
6
(Whereupon Deposition Exhibit No. 1
7
marked for identification.)
8
BY MR. WOOD:
9
Q. All right, Tom, could you tell us what this
10
Exhibit Number 1 is?
11
A. Sure. It's a summary of employees covered under
12
our health care program from 2008 to 2012, all actual
13
data. Then the health benefit cost per -- for these
14
active employees, and then that includes medical
15
scripts, admin and stop loss, access coverage. So it's,
16
from our standpoint, an all inclusive number cost wise.
17
And then we have a number, a ratio, of 2.2
18
that we use that Mercer uses, our health benefits
19
consultant, Mercer uses a translation factor of 2.2 to
20
get from a per active employee number to a per head
21
count number inclusive of beneficiaries and whatnot.
22
And that was important because the taxable value for the
23
OQA benefit that Mercer gives us is the only indication
24
that we have of the per head count cost for the OQA
25
benefit. And so in order to compare apples to apples I
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 5 of 20 Pg ID 4214
Page 9
1
needed that translation factor of 2.2 so you can see the
2
numbers on a per head count basis per year.
3
And then you can see we've multiplied the
4
number of OQA folks by the total amount of health and
5
dental costs to get a total amount -- the total cost for
6
all the OQA insured per year, which is that 31,168,
7
23,052, and et cetera all the way from the right to the
8
left -- or left to the right, rather. And then the
9
admin cost, which was a separate question in the
10
subpoena.
11
Q. And let's just walk through the subpoena just to
12
make sure I know which ones -- which of the items that,
13
you know, you're able to cover.
14
A. Sure.
15
Q. And this is Exhibit 1 to Mr. Post's deposition.
16
And so number one on the deposition notice was the
17
rationale and/or purpose for the City's OQA policy, and
18
you indicated that you didn't have any role or knowledge
19
on that, correct?
20
A. Correct, yes.
21
Q. And number two is the number of OQA adults
22
provided medical insurance benefits by the City, and you
23
do have that in your chart by year, correct?
24
A. Uh-huh, yup.
25
Q. And so that's near the bottom so, for example,
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 6 of 20 Pg ID 4215
Page 10
1
for every year other than 2011 on the chart it's been
2
five and in 2011 there were eight, correct?
3
A. That is correct.
4
Q. All right. Number three is the City's cost to
5
provide this coverage for an employee OQA and employee
6
OQA-OQA dependents for each year. As to the second part
7
of that item three, Mr. Post indicated that there was no
8
OQA dependent coverage under the OQA policy, correct?
9
A. That's right.
10
Q. So that would answer the second part of that
11
question. And the first part of the question, the
12
City's cost to provide health care coverage for each
13
OQA, that is set forth in what would be the line called
14
total for all -- no, I'm sorry, that would be the line
15
called health benefit costs --
16
A. Yeah, it would be the total health and dental
17
line. So to answer question three the total health and
18
dental line. Sorry, I should have put those numbers on
19
there.
20
Q. That's okay, I got it. So, for example, for 2008
21
the answer to the subpoena question number three would
22
be 7,792, correct?
23
A. Correct.
24
Q. So it actually has gone down a little bit since
25
2008, correct?
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 7 of 20 Pg ID 4216
Page 11
1
A. Correct.
2
Q. Has there been a reduction in the type or amount
3
of benefits that's allowed the City to reduce its cost?
4
A. I don't believe so per these folks. I don't -- I
5
don't -- I'm not aware of a general reduction in
6
benefit. However, we have, you know, increased -- we
7
have increased the amount of copays and deductibles and
8
contributions, which is a net off against our total
9
cost. I don't think it would account for that big a
10
difference, I'm not sure. That number in 2008 seems
11
rather high to me, frankly.
12
Q. Has there been some type of an effort at the City
13
to reduce benefit costs --
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. -- over the last five years?
16
A. Yes, actually since 2005 when -- before I arrived
17
here the City began a process of shifting costs and
18
containing costs. Basically we had a generic 95 percent
19
employer, five percent employee type split in costs and
20
we wanted to get to more like 80 percent employee,
21
20 percent -- I'm sorry, 80 percent employer, 20 percent
22
employee and we've accomplished that. We believe we've
23
accomplished that with the contracts we put in place in
24
2014 and with the plan design that we've implemented in
25
2014. We believe that we've accomplished that with the
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 8 of 20 Pg ID 4217
Page 12
1
new plan design and cost sharing measures we put in
2
place effective for 2014, we'll see. But over the years
3
we've seen dramatic reductions in net costs to the City
4
thanks to those efforts.
5
Q. So for number four, the question in the subpoena
6
was the total costs to the City to provide medical
7
insurance benefits for employees for each fiscal year
8
beginning 2008 and the relationship of these costs to
9
other expense categories - that is, how they increase or
10
decrease the medical costs related to the increase or
11
decrease to other cost categories. Would that be
12
encompassed in the chart?
13
A. That would really be the health benefit cost for
14
active employees, which is --
15
Q. The sixth line?
16
A. Which is the sixth line, if you just multiply
17
that by the -- well, probably the easiest way to do it
18
really would be to take the health benefit cost for
19
active employees, then multiply that by the number of
20
employees covered, which is the first line.
21
Q. And in terms of how medical costs have increased
22
or decreased in comparison to other benefits provided by
23
the City, are you able to offer any information in that
24
regard?
25
A. Yes. Since -- I can't speak since 2008 but I can
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 9 of 20 Pg ID 4218
Page 14
1
If you pulled the health care out it would be lower,
2
obviously; I'm not sure how much lower.
3
Q. If we compared health care costs and how those
4
have gone up or down compared to other benefits that are
5
provided to employees, are you able to compare those
6
two?
7
A. It's about the same. Our fringe factor, which
8
covers all the other benefits, life insurance, and
9
whatnot, that's generically about three percent
10
inflation.
11
Q. For number five in the subpoena, the employee's
12
cost for employee OQA coverage and employee OQA-OQA
13
dependent coverage. So the second part of number five
14
would be zero because there is no OQA-OQA dependent
15
coverage?
16
A. That's right.
17
Q. And the first part of number five, the employees'
18
cost for employee OQA coverage would be where on the
19
chart?
20
A. Well, I believe that that was provided by
21
Mr. Post. He gave you a schedule of contributions.
22
Q. Yes. Now, I think if I understand his chart,
23
which is Post Exhibit Number 3, do you have that in
24
front of you?
25
A. Well, I have a couple of scratched up versions.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 10 of 20 Pg ID 4219
Page 17
1
so they cover, you know, what are sometimes called
2
catastrophic claims for a premium, but we cover
3
everything up to that stop loss amount.
4
Q. And that stop loss is included --
5
A. Yes.
6
Q. -- as part of the second line of numbers on
7
Exhibit 1 starting with the numbers 9,621, correct?
8
A. That's correct, the numbers you see on this
9
exhibit are inclusive of our stop loss premiums.
10
Q. And do you know if those are broken out by
11
employee anywhere, the cost per employee of the stop
12
loss premiums?
13
A. Not on our books. I'm sure we can, if you wanted
14
us to look for it we may be able to find that. Mercer
15
may be able to punch that up. I wouldn't be surprised
16
if they could.
17
Q. Okay. And then the administrative costs per
18
employee for benefits, where would I find that on the
19
chart or would I find that on the chart?
20
A. Yeah, we didn't break each component out per
21
employee.
22
Q. But the last line has the total administrative
23
cost per employee per month, correct?
24
A. Oh, I'm sorry, pardon me, yes, excuse me, the
25
administrative cost per employee, that's the last line,
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 11 of 20 Pg ID 4220
Page 18
1
the 37.03 for 2008 and the 40.26, those are monthly
2
amounts, just so you understand. Sorry, I was thinking
3
annual costs.
4
Q. That's all right, I'm trying to work through this
5
myself here as we go. Now, on number seven it asks for
6
the source of funding used to pay employee medical
7
benefits including any OQA benefits. Do you know what
8
the source of funding that the City uses to pay for its
9
portion of the employee medical benefits is?
10
A. Right, the City pays for medical benefits through
11
what's called an insurance fund. That is what's also
12
referred to as internal service fund, that pays all the
13
bills for health care benefits and whatnot. And that
14
insurance fund is then funded by cost allocations,
15
generic, you know, cost allocations from all the
16
different funds based on active and total active
17
employee head count, if we're talking about active
18
health care.
19
Q. Right. And would that include funds from the
20
State?
21
A. Yes. I mean, yes, there are funds from the State
22
that flow through different funds, which then flow those
23
funds to the insurance fund, yes.
24
Q. And do you know what types of state programs or
25
grants or funds are used to help the City pay for health
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 12 of 20 Pg ID 4221
Page 19
1
care costs for employees and OQAs?
2
A. Well, there's the Act 51 money that flows into
3
our street funds, local and major street funds. Also
4
Act 51 money that flows into our metro transit fund for
5
our bus line. There are some -- there's some state --
6
it's a little tricky for me, there's federal and state
7
monies that get kind of -- that flow through some grant
8
funds that we have that help to pay for -- well, that
9
pay for programs which are then administered by City
10
employees, and the City employees' costs for
11
administering the program are then covered by the State
12
and federal grants and so then that would include
13
allocation of reasonable costs for the employee such as
14
benefits and things of that nature.
15
Q. Including, for example, health care?
16
A. Correct.
17
Q. Now, number eight, it says any adjustments to the
18
employee copays for medical benefits for each year
19
beginning with 2008 for each exclusively represented
20
bargaining group for non-exclusively represented
21
employees and all other employees, would we be able to
22
identify that from either Exhibit 1 or Exhibit 3 or else
23
something else?
24
A. Yeah, that was not a question that I prepared an
25
answer for. I think we thought that was going to be
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 13 of 20 Pg ID 4222
Page 20
1
covered by this exhibit.
2
Q. Post Exhibit 3. So that would probably be the
3
second portion of Post Exhibit 3 where it starts with
4
$91 down to 135?
5
A. Yeah, but it's not broken out by employee group,
6
though, so if you want it broken up by employee -- well,
7
I believe that it's generic, but if you want -- you
8
should probably add that to your list of questions for
9
Mr. Buchtrup.
10
Q. And what would be the document that would show
11
that if you wanted to have a document?
12
A. It would be this same thing but just instead of a
13
generic number for two parties and families, if there
14
were differences between, you know, the various employee
15
groups then you'd have to have a version of that for
16
each employee group. Again, we've tried to keep those
17
the same but there's, you know, sometimes some
18
contractual overlap and that sort of thing.
19
Q. When you say you've tried to keep them the same,
20
you mean for each bargaining group?
21
A. Right, we tried to maintain internal equity
22
between the different groups, but it's not always the
23
same, you know.
24
Q. And just so I -- in this Exhibit 1, in the middle
25
there's a line that says total for all OQA insured?
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 14 of 20 Pg ID 4223
Page 21
1
A. Uh-huh.
2
Q. Is that the total cost to the City, or maybe I'm
3
misunderstanding that?
4
A. Yes, yes.
5
Q. Okay.
6
A. That to the best of my knowledge would be the
7
City's total exposure to the OQA program.
8
Q. So, in other words, you have five employees
9
covered in 2012 -- or, I'm sorry, five OQAs covered in
10
2012 and the total cost is $24,678. So a touch under
11
$5,000 per OQA is the cost to the City; is that how I
12
was to read this?
13
A. A touch under 5,000 or a touch under -- sorry,
14
could you repeat that?
15
Q. Yeah, I'm getting a little mixed up and I
16
apologize because there's a little distinction here.
17
One -- the $6105 or the $6,105 figure is the total
18
taxable value per OQA, correct?
19
A. Yes.
20
Q. But it would not seem to be the total cost to the
21
City per OQA the way I'm reading this, and I must be
22
reading something incorrectly?
23
A. Right, the total cost would be the line below it,
24
the 24,678.
25
Q. Okay.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 15 of 20 Pg ID 4224
Page 26
1
in whatever way that the municipal -- you know, the
2
local unit of government might need; has any of that
3
occurred?
4
A. No, we haven't experienced a financial emergency
5
or anything of that nature. We just consider ourselves
6
to be the same as every other municipality in the State
7
that's trying to make ends meet and struggling to try to
8
continue to deliver, you know, sufficient quality
9
services for the public. So, you know, so I don't think
10
we've gotten anywhere close to needing the State's
11
incidental help, we just need them to not hurt us big
12
time through budget cuts and whatnot.
13
Q. Now, just covering a few of the financial or
14
numerical items of information in Mr. Collard's
15
declaration, I take it you didn't have any role in
16
assisting in preparing this, did you?
17
A. Correct, I did not have any role in that.
18
Q. Just let me -- I think some of these numbers
19
might be addressed by your chart, but the total number
20
of employees who participate in group insurance is
21
covered by your chart in line number one, true?
22
A. Uh-huh, yes.
23
Q. Okay. Do we know what the total number of
24
individuals currently insured through group plans would
25
be as he references in paragraph number three, it's
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 16 of 20 Pg ID 4225
Page 27
1
about, oh, three times the number of employees, which
2
I'm assuming is dependents, do we know how that
3
correlates today?
4
A. The last number I heard about for dependents as
5
of the end of '13 for active employees, I'm not talking
6
about retirees, just active, was a little over 1,000.
7
Q. Okay. So --
8
A. In addition to.
9
Q. So if it's a little over 1,000 you're right
10
around, with employees, 1575 basically?
11
A. Right, something in that range.
12
Q. That would be the total number of people covered
13
through group insurance plans?
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. Do you know, as he references in paragraph number
16
six, the number of current Kalamazoo city employees who
17
are potentially able to extend OQA coverage to a
18
qualified adult?
19
A. I do not know that information.
20
Q. And if we go to page three, paragraphs nine and
21
ten talk about administrative costs of OQA benefits;
22
that's addressed in the last line of your Exhibit 1,
23
correct?
24
A. Yes.
25
Q. If OQA benefits were to discontinue, for whatever
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 17 of 20 Pg ID 4226
Page 29
1
isn't, but I'm not aware of anything.
2
Q. Do you know what the form or document is by which
3
the City of Kalamazoo reports the value of health
4
insurance coverage provided to an employee's OQA?
5
A. Well, I obtained that information from Mercer,
6
and since that is a taxable value figure I believe that
7
is what we also are now required under federal law to
8
put on an employee's W-2 form.
9
Q. Mr. Post indicated that he had spoken with
10
someone from the ACLU. Have you ever spoken with
11
anybody from the ACLU?
12
A. I have not.
13
Q. Do you have any evidence, data, or knowledge to
14
state that the OQA policy has any specific benefit to
15
the City in the recruitment or retention of employees?
16
A. Well, I have the knowledge of the people that I
17
know who receive the benefit and their sensibility is
18
they've told me about it and Mr. Post in particular is,
19
you know, a very key person on our team so, you know,
20
beyond that it would be a little more speculative on my
21
part, but I know that Mr. Post is a vital benefit and
22
he's a vital person.
23
Q. Would that be true for you as well as your other
24
management personnel, that you're each vital people?
25
A. Yes, yes. Yeah, I mean we're a team. I mean
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 18 of 20 Pg ID 4227
Page 35
1
Q. And in regard to revenue sharing and EVIP, the
2
State legislature has cut those amounts since 2008 from
3
2012?
4
A. Yes.
5
Q. And in receipt of the State revenue sharing/EVIP
6
money, that money is fungible in terms of how it's
7
treated by the City for its budget?
8
A. That is correct.
9
Q. So there is no separate assessment for OQA
10
benefits against receipt of state money?
11
A. That is absolutely correct, yes.
12
Q. All right. As a matter of fact, from 2008 to
13
2012 the City has had a balanced budget?
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. Has the City received any notifications from the
16
Michigan Department of Treasury that it has a problem
17
with its budgets?
18
A. Never.
19
Q. And so the City's not facing any possibility of
20
having an emergency manager or legislation step in?
21
A. Not at all, no.
22
Q. And we've not been subject to the process for a
23
committee to investigate whether an emergency manager
24
should be appointed?
25
A. No, there's no indication of that whatsoever.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 19 of 20 Pg ID 4228
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 84-6 Filed 02/14/14 Pg 12 of 12 Pg ID 3208 2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-30 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 20 of 20 Pg ID 4229
Exhibit 17
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-31 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 1 of 4 Pg ID 4230
2012 HATE/BIAS
CRIME IN MICHIGAN
DEFINITION - A Hate Crime is dened as a criminal oense
commied against a person or property which is movated in
whole or in part, by the oender's bias against a race,
ethnic/naonal origin, religion, sexal!orientaon,
mental/physical disability or ethnicity"
#ichigan's $thnic %nmidaon Act, Act &'( o) *+&* as amended,
,econ -./"*0-b, was wrien to allow )or stricter penales )or
hate crimes" $thnic inmidaon is a )elony pnishable by
imprisonment )or not more than ' years, or by a ne o) not
more than 1.,///, or both"
Hate crime incidents are idened by the movaon o) the
oender2s3" 4aw en)orcement investigations determine the
ob5ective )acts which leads to a reasonable conclsion that the
o))ender6s actions were motivated by bias against a racial,
religios, ethnic/naonal origin, mental/physical disability, or
sexal!orientaon grop" Accrate data collecon o) hate
crimes depends heavily on proper training o) law en)orcement
to recogni7e sch incidents and the cooperaon and desire o)
commnies/vicms to report these incidents to law
en)orcement"
Totals Bias Movaon Vi!s
Raial 8 90
An!Am" %ndian/Alas:an ;ave '
An!Asian/<acic %slander *.
An!=lac: *+(
An!#l!>acial ?rop *'
An!@hite .+
R"li#io$s 8 *'
An!Antheism/Agnosc *
An!Catholic **
An!%slamic *(
An!Aewish *(
An!#l!>eligios ?rop *
An!Bther >eligion .
Et%niit&/Naonal O'i#in 8 */
An!Hispanic '*
An!Bther $thnicity/;aonal Brigin '0
Disa(ili"s 8 '
An!#ental Cisability (
S")$al O'i"ntaon 8 *'
An!=isexal '
An!Demale Homosexal -
An!Heterosexal *
An!Homosexal '/
An!#ale Homosexal '&
G"n*"' 8 *
An!Demale &
An!#ale *
G'an* Total+ 0./
Totals Vi! T&,"
=siness */
?overnment *'
%ndividal &(/
Bther &
<olice BEcer *
>eligios Brgani7aon .
,ociety/<blic &+
G'an* Total+ -.0
ANA/0SIS
Vol$!"
Fhe total nmber o) reported hate crime incidents in '/*' was &-."
Fhis is a - percent decrease when compared to '/**" Fhese
incidents involved 0./ vicms, 0.& oenders, and reslted in 090
oenses" A vicm o) mlple hate crime oenses is conted )or
each oense"
Bias Movaon
%n '/*', the largest percentage o) hate crimes reported was racial in
natre" Fhe second most reported was sexal orientaon and
religion"
>acial
908
>eligios
*'8
$thnicity/
;ational Brigin
*/8
Cisabilities
'8
,exal
Brientation
*'8
?ender
*8
Hat" C'i!" 2012 2011 1 C%an#"
%nci dents &-. 0/& !-8
Gi cti ms 0./ 0(- !(8
B))enders 0.& 0** */8
B))enses 090 ./' !(8
;oteH <ercentages are ronded to the nearest tenth"
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-31 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 2 of 4 Pg ID 4231
2012 HATE/BIAS
CRIME IN MICHIGAN
AGE GRO23 00-04
Totals Bias Movaon
An!=lac: .
An!Demale *
An!Heterosexal *
An!Hispanic *
An!Bther $thnicity/;aonal Brigin *
An!@hite *
G'an* Totals+ 10
AGE GRO23 10-14
Totals Bias Movaon
An!Antheism/Agnosc *
An!Asian/<acic %slander *
An!=isexal *
An!=lac: 0-
An!Catholic *
An!Demale Homosexal 24esbian3 '
An!Hispanic -
An!Homosexal 2?ay And
4esbian3
&
An!%slamic 2#oslem3 .
An!Aewish '
An!#ale *
An!#ale Homosexal 2?ay3 0
An!#ental Cisability *
An!#l!>acial ?rop '
An!@hite -
G'an* Totals+ 5.
AGE GRO23 20-24
Totals Bias Movaon
An!Asian/<acic %slander *'
An!=lac: &*
An!Catholic 0
An!Demale Homosexal 24esbian3 *
An!Hispanic *
An!Homosexal 2?ay And 4esbian3 .
An!%slamic 2#oslem3 &
An!Aewish *
An!#ale Homosexal 2?ay3 */
An!#ental Cisability *
An!#l!>acial ?rop *
An!Bther $thnicity/;aonal Brigin -
An!Bther >eligion 2=ddhism, Hindism,
,hintoism, etc"3
*
An!@hite 9
G'an* Totals+ 5-
AGE GRO23 60-64
Totals Bias Movaon
An!=isexal *
An!=lac: &&
An!Catholic &
An!Demale *
An!Demale Homosexal 24esbian3 *
An!Hispanic '
An!Homosexal 2?ay And 4esbian3 *
An!%slamic 2#oslem3 &
An!Aewish *
An!#ale Homosexal 2?ay3 &
An!#ental Cisability *
An!#l!>acial ?rop *
An!Bther $thnicity/;aonal Brigin *
An!Bther >eligion 2=ddhism,
Hindism, ,hintoism, etc"3
'
An!@hite **
G'an* Totals+ 7.
AGE GRO23 -0--4
Totals Bias Movaon
An!Asian/<acic %slander *
An!=lac: &/
An!Catholic *
An!Hispanic &
An!Homosexal 2?ay And 4esbian3 0
An!%slamic 2#oslem3 *
An!#ale Homosexal 2?ay3 '
An!#ental Cisability 0
An!Bther $thnicity/;aonal Brigin 9
An!Bther >eligion 2=ddhism,
Hindism, ,hintoism, etc"3
*
An!@hite *&
G'an* Totals+ 77
AGE GRO23 .0-.4
Totals Bias Movaon
An!Asian/<acic %slander *
An!=lac: *+
An!Catholic '
An!Demale *
An!Demale Homosexal 24esbian3 '
An!Hispanic *
An!Homosexal 2?ay And 4esbian3 &
An!%slamic 2#oslem3 '
An!Aewish .
An!#ale Homosexal 2?ay3 '
An!#l!>acial ?rop *
An!Bther $thnicity/;aonal Brigin '
An!Bther >eligion 2=ddhism, Hindism,
,hintoism, etc"3
*
An!@hite +
G'an* Totals+ .1
AGE GRO23 70-74
Totals Bias Movaon
An!=lac: &
An!Hispanic &
An!Homosexal 2?ay And 4esbian3 *
An!%slamic 2#oslem3 '
An!Aewish '
An!Bther $thnicity/;aonal Brigin *
An!@hite 0
G'an* Totals+ 17
AGE GRO23 80-84
Totals Bias Movaon
An!=lac: *
An!%slamic *
An!@hite *
G'an* Totals+ 6
AGE GRO23 50 an* A(ov"
Totals Bias Movaon
An!Hispanic *
G'an* Totals+ 1
VICTIMS B0 AGE
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-31 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 3 of 4 Pg ID 4232
2012 HATE/BIAS
CRIME IN MICHIGAN
Totals 9"a,on 2s"*
=lnt Bb5ect **
Dire/%ncendiary Cevice *
Direarm *
Handgn 9
Ini)e/CJng %nstrment 9
#otor Gehicle 0
;one **
Bther 9
<ersonal @eapons -&
<oison *
>iKe *
Ln:nown '
G'an* Total+ 126
Totals O:"ns"
Aggravated/ Delonios Assalt 0-
Arson 0
=rglary! $ntry @ithot Dorce 2%ntent to Commit3 '
=rglary! Dorced $ntry '
Civil >ights 0
Camage to <roperty --
Cisorderly Condct '0
$xtoron *
%nmidaon/ ,tal:ing *9/
Avenile >naway *
4arceny! Bther '
4arceny! FheM )rom =ilding '
4arceny! FheM )rom #otor Gehicle *
4arceny! FheM o) #otor Gehicle <arts/ Accessories *
#iscellaneos Criminal Bense *
#otor Gehicle FheM *
;on!Aggravated Assalt */.
Bbstrcng Asce *
Bbstrcng <olice '
Bperang Lnder the %nKence o) 4iNor or Crgs *
<blic <eace! Bther ''
>etail Drad! FheM *
>obbery *
Giolaon o) Controlled ,bstance Act *
G'an* Total+ -7-
Totals /oaon o; Ini*"nts
Air/=s/Frain Ferminal '
=ar/;ight Clb 9
Camp/Campgrond *
Chrch/,ynagoge/Femple */
Commercial/BEce =ildings (
Constrcon ,ite *
Convenience ,tore *'
Cepartment/Ciscont ,tore '
Crg ,tore/CoctorOs BEce/Hospital (
Dield/@oods *
?ambling Dacility/Casino/>ace Frac: *
?overnment/<blic =ilding &
?rocery/,permar:et *
Highway/>oad/Alley ..
Hotel/#otel/etc" '
Aail/<rison 0
Bther */
<ar:/<laygrond 0
<ar:ing 4ot/?arage &/
>esidence/Home *&.
>est Area/>oadside <ar: 9
>estarant 9
,chool!College/Lniversity */
,chool!$lementary/,econdary 0-
,ervice/?as ,taon 9
,pecialty ,tore 0
G'an* Totals+ 68.
R"si*"n"/Ho!" /oaon-VOR
AcNaintance '*
Child *
Dormer Cang =D/?D '
Driend &
Homosexal >elaonship *
%n!law '
;eighbor &9
Bender 0
Bther Damily #ember *
Btherwise Inown *-
>esident =D/?D '
,tranger *+
Ln:nown (
G'an* Totals+
118
O:"n*"'s
@hites acconted )or 9& percent o) the oenders" Hate crime
incidents can be perpetrated by mlple oenders o) the same race"
/oaon
Fhe locaon o) >esidence/Home acconted )or &9 percent o) the
incidents" Fhe second most common locaon was a
Highway/>oad/Alley at *. percent"
P;oteH %n #ichigan, the #ichigan $thnic %nmidaon Act, Act &'( o)
*+&* as amended, ,econ -./"*0-b reNires that all oenses be
reported within the incident" %ncidents where sspected bias
movaon is Ln:nown or Bther =ias are not pblished within this
report"
Ra" Vol$!" 1
Ameri can %ndi an/Al as:an ;ati ve * /"'8
Asi an/<aci )i c %sl ander ' /"08
=l ac: +' '/"&8
Ln:nown *'0 '-"08
@hi te '&0 .*"-8
G'an* Total -.6 100<01
Hat" C'i!" O;;"n*"'s (& Ra"
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-31 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 4 of 4 Pg ID 4233
Exhibit 18.A
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 1 of 46 Pg ID 4234
1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK BLOSS and
GERARDO ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER
and MICHELLE JOHNSON,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official capacity
as Governor of the state of Michigan,
Defendant.
____________________________________
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
Hon. David M. Lawson
DECLARATION OF THERESA BASSETT IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS MOTION
FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
I, Theresa Bassett, hereby declare and state as follows:
1. I make this declaration of my own personal knowledge, and if called as a witness,
I can and will testify competently to the matters stated herein.
2. I am a middle school teacher at Slauson Middle School in Ann Arbor, where I
have taught for thirty years, have earned tenure, and currently teach math to sixth- and eighth-
graders. My job duties and responsibilities are very similar to the duties and responsibilities of
the heterosexual teachers at Slauson Middle School.
3. I am fifty-two years old, and I reside in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I was born in Ann
Arbor, grew up here, and attended college at the University of Michigan. I have a Masters in
Educational Leadership and am currently working on a Masters in Social Work.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 2 of 46 Pg ID 4235
2
4. My life partner is Carol Kennedy, who is fifty-five years old. In November 2014,
Carol and I will celebrate our twenty-eighth anniversary as a loving, committed couple. We had
a commitment ceremony in Michigan in 1990 and were legally married in California in 2008. In
addition, Carol and I registered as domestic partners in Ann Arbor in 1991. My relationship with
Carol is founded on mutual pledges of emotional and financial support.
5. Carol and I are financially interdependent. We are the primary beneficiaries of
each others life insurance policies and wills. I have given her a durable power of attorney to
make decisions for me in case I become ill. We own our home jointly, and all of our primary
bank accounts are shared.
6. Carol and I are raising eight children together: Maya, Olivia, Ben, Charlie, Sam,
Finnian (Finn), Alexi, and Nina Bassett-Kennedy, ranging in age from three to twenty-two.
Our two oldest daughters, Maya and Olivia, now attend Western Michigan University. The other
children attend school in the Ann Arbor School District.
7. Carol is self-employed, so she does not have access to an employer-provided
health care plan. Until 2000, Ann Arbor Public Schools did not offer domestic partner benefits.
Carol and I advocated for the school district to offer these benefits, and it finally did. I was able
to cover Carol and the children through the districts family plan. Now Carol is covered as an
Other Eligible Adult.
8. If P.A. 297 remains in effect, Carol will lose her health care coverage when my
union contract with the district ends.
9. Carols family has a history of breast cancer, which means that independent
health care coverage will be very expensive. We have researched the alternatives by looking
online and talking with friends who have purchased individual insurance policies. To keep
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 3 of 46 Pg ID 4236
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 4 of 46 Pg ID 4237
Exhibit 18.B
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 5 of 46 Pg ID 4238
1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK BLOSS and
GERARDO ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER
and MICHELLE JOHNSON,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official capacity
as Governor of the state of Michigan,
Defendant.
____________________________________
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
Hon. David M. Lawson
DECLARATION OF CAROL KENNEDY IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS MOTION
FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
I, Carol Kennedy, hereby declare and state as follows:
1. I make this declaration of my own personal knowledge, and if called as a witness,
I can and will testify competently to the matters stated herein.
2. I am fifty-five years old, and I reside in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I am a lifelong
Michigan resident, having grown up in Royal Oak and attended college at Northern Michigan
University before moving to Ann Arbor.
3. My life partner is Theresa Bassett, who is fifty-two years old. In November 2014
we will celebrate our twenty-eighth anniversary. We had a commitment ceremony in Michigan
in 1990 and were legally married in California in 2008. In addition, Theresa and I registered as
domestic partners in Ann Arbor in 1991. My relationship with Theresa is founded on mutual
pledges of emotional and financial support.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 6 of 46 Pg ID 4239
2
4. Theresa and I are financially interdependent. We have named each other as
beneficiary for our wills and life insurance policies. I have given her a durable power of
attorney, so she can make legal decisions for me if I get sick and cannot make them myself. We
also own our home jointly, and share all of our primary bank accounts.
5. Theresa and I are raising eight children together: Maya, Olivia, Ben, Charlie,
Sam, Finnian (Finn), Alexi, and Nina Bassett-Kennedy, ranging in age from three to twenty-
two. Our two oldest daughters, Maya and Olivia, now attend Western Michigan University. The
other children attend schools in the Ann Arbor School District.
6. I have run a day care from our home since 1993. The business is well-established
now, and I have a steady clientele. I am self-employed, so I do not have access to an employer-
provided health care plan.
7. Theresas health insurance currently covers me as an Other Eligible Adult.
8. If P.A. 297 remains in effect, I will lose my health care coverage when Theresas
union contract with Ann Arbor Schools ends.
9. My family has a history of breast cancer, which means that independent health
care coverage will be very expensive. I checked online and consulted with friends who had
obtained individual insurance policies to find out how much it would cost to get benefits as
comprehensive as those Theresas job provides. To keep my premium down to $250 per month,
I will have a deductible of $2,500 and will have to pay a number of medical expenses out of
pocket. I could also pay a premium of about $800 a month for more comprehensive coverage.
10. P.A. 297 has caused our family a great deal of anxiety. A few years ago, we
campaigned to convince Ann Arbor Schools to provide benefits to domestic partners. Having
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 7 of 46 Pg ID 4240
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 8 of 46 Pg ID 4241
Exhibit 18.C
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 9 of 46 Pg ID 4242
1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK BLOSS and
GERARDO ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER
and MICHELLE JOHNSON,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official capacity
as Governor of the state of Michigan,
Defendant.
_______________________________
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
Hon. David M. Lawson
DECLARATION OF PETER WAYS IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS MOTION FOR
SUMMARY JUDGMENT
I, Peter Ways, hereby declare and state as follows:
1. I make this declaration based on my own personal knowledge, and if called as a
witness, I can and will testify competently to the matters stated herein.
2. I am fifty-two years old, and I reside in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I was born in
Washington State but moved to Michigan as a boy when my father took a job at Michigan State
University. I grew up in Michigan and attended the University of Michigan.
3. My life partner is Joe Breakey, who is forty-nine years old. We met when we
were both teaching at Pioneer and Huron High Schools in Ann Arbor. In March 2014, we will
celebrate our twenty-third anniversary. In 1998, we celebrated our commitment to one another
in a ceremony that was attended by more than 100 friends and family members. We would
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 10 of 46 Pg ID 4243
2
marry each other if Michigan law allowed it. My relationship with Joe is founded on mutual
pledges of emotional and financial support.
4. I started working for Ann Arbor Schools in 1988 as a teacher. Joe and I moved to
Seattle, Washington in 1991 where I worked for Seattle Schools as an administrator. We
returned to Michigan in 2002. Our daughter, Aliza BreakeyWays, is now eleven; she has lived
in Michigan since she was one week old. After we moved back to Michigan, we started a farm,
and in 2004 I went back to work for the Ann Arbor school district, first as a consultant, then as
an administrator, and then as the dean of Community High School (an alternative high school
program). In 2009 I returned to teaching English and Social Studies to seventh and eighth
graders at Ann Arbor Open School. I have worked for the district for a total of thirteen years.
My job duties and responsibilities are very similar to the duties and responsibilities of the
heterosexual teachers at Ann Arbor Open School.
5. Joe and I are financially interdependent. I have made Joe the primary beneficiary
of my will and life insurance policy. He also has durable powers of attorney for my financial
decisions and medical care in case I am unable to make those decisions myself. We jointly own
our home and all of our main bank accounts.
6. Joe is a licensed social worker with his own private practice. Because he is self-
employed, he has the flexibility to do more child care for Aliza, such as taking her to school in
the morning, which is very important to us.
7. Being self-employed means that Joe does not have his own employer-provided
health care. He has been covered for medical, dental, and vision insurance under my Ann Arbor
Schools benefits plan for six years. At the moment he is covered as an Other Eligible Adult.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 11 of 46 Pg ID 4244
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 12 of 46 Pg ID 4245
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 13 of 46 Pg ID 4246
Exhibit 18.D
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 14 of 46 Pg ID 4247
1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK BLOSS and
GERARDO ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER
and MICHELLE JOHNSON,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official capacity
as Governor of the state of Michigan,
Defendant.
____________________________________
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
Hon. David M. Lawson
DECLARATION OF JOE BREAKEY IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS MOTION FOR
SUMMARY JUDGMENT
I, Barry Joel (Joe) Breakey, hereby declare and state as follows:
1. I make this declaration of my own personal knowledge, and if called as a witness,
I can and will testify competently to the matters stated herein.
2. I am a licensed social worker with a private practice. I am forty-nine years old,
and I reside in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I was born in Michigan and have spent most of my life
here. I attended Ann Arbor public schools and college at University of Michigan, University of
Washington (for graduate studies), and Middlebury College in Vermont.
3. My life partner is Peter Ways, who is fifty-two years old. We met when we were
both teaching high school in Ann Arbor. In March 2014, we will celebrate our twenty-third
anniversary. In 1998, we celebrated our commitment to each other in a ceremony that was
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 15 of 46 Pg ID 4248
2
attended by more than 100 friends and family members. My relationship with Peter is founded
on mutual pledges of emotional and financial support.
4. Peter and I are financially interdependent. Peter is the primary beneficiary of my
will and life insurance policy, and he has durable powers of attorney for my financial and
medical decisions. We own our home jointly, and all of our primary bank accounts are shared.
5. Peter and I together are raising our eleven-year-old daughter, Aliza Breakey-
Ways, who has lived in Michigan since she was one week old.
6. Because I am self-employed, I do not have access to employer-provided health
care. But being self-employed gives me the flexibility to be available to Aliza during the day,
including taking her to school in the mornings, which is very important to usas it is to many
families.
7. I have been covered under Peters benefits plan for six years. My coverage costs
$8,545 in premiums for which Peter pays $940 in taxes per year, and it includes medical, dental,
and vision insurance.
8. If P.A. 297 remains in effect, I will lose my health care coverage when Peters
contract with the district is up.
9. Finding a comparable health care plan for me would be very expensive. I
researched insurance companies online and spoke with other families in our same situation and
discovered that a comparable plan for me would cost us between $8,000 and $10,000 a year.
10. P.A. 297 has caused anxiety and worry for the whole family. I have been without
health insurance before, when we first moved back to Michigan. I was working part-time and
had to rely on state Medicaid for my health care until Peter was able to cover me through Ann
Arbor Public Schools.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 16 of 46 Pg ID 4249
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 17 of 46 Pg ID 4250
Exhibit 18.E
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 18 of 46 Pg ID 4251
1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK
BLOSS and GERARDO ASCHERI,
DENISE MILLER and MICHELLE
JOHNSON,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official
capacity as Governor of the state of
Michigan,
Defendant.
_______________________________
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
Hon. David M. Lawson
DECLARATION OF JOLINDA JACH IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS
MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
I, JoLinda Jach, hereby declare and state as follows:
1. I make this declaration of my own personal knowledge, and if called
as a witness, I can and will testify competently to the matters stated herein.
2. I am a senior systems analyst for software applications and project
management with the City of Kalamazoo. I have a Bachelors Degree in Computer
Science from Western Michigan University. I started working for the City twenty-
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 19 of 46 Pg ID 4252
2
six years ago as a systems analyst, and since then I have held several positions in
information technology. My job duties and responsibilities are very similar to the
duties and responsibilities of the heterosexual senior systems analysts who work
for the City.
3. I am fifty years old, and I live in Kalamazoo, Michigan. I am a
Michigan native, having grown up in Paw Paw, Michigan, which is west of
Kalamazoo.
4. My life partner is Barbara Ramber, who is fifty-five years old. We
have been together for nineteen years. In 1997, we held a commitment ceremony
in Santa Monica, California, attended by Barbaras father and sister, and two of our
close friends. My relationship with Barbara is founded on mutual pledges of
emotional and financial support.
5. Barbara and I are financially interdependent. I have named Barbara as
the executor and primary beneficiary of my will. We have also given each other
durable powers of attorney to make medical decisions in case one of us becomes
incapacitated. We own our home together and share our finances.
6. Barbara and I together are raising two children: our son Dylan
Ramber-Jach is 12 and our daughter Jordan Ramber-Jach is 10.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 20 of 46 Pg ID 4253
3
7. Barbara works part-time in the food service division of Kalamazoo
Public Schools. As a part-time position, Barbaras job does not include health
insurance benefits.
8. Barbara has been covered under my City benefits plan for
approximately twelve years. She was eligible for health insurance as a domestic
partner on June 1, 2000 and signed up for coverage immediately. When Barbara
became eligible for benefits coverage as an Other Qualified Adult, she signed up
immediately. Barbaras coverage was terminated on December 31, 2012 due to
P.A. 297 and we had to purchase coverage for her through Blue Cross (Flex Blue
Plan) from January 1, 2013 through July 31, 2013, paying $1,798 in premiums.
Barbara became eligible for benefits coverage as an Other Qualified Adult in
August 2013, after the Court issued a preliminary injunction against P.A. 297 and
she signed up for coverage immediately.
9. I pay $262.32 per month for a family plan that includes Barbara. In
addition, I pay $6.00 a month for dental. I am also taxed by the State on the value
of Barbaras coverage for health and dental insurance, which the City values to be
$5,993.76 a year. The State tax we pay on the value of Barbaras coverage is
approximately $52 a month.
10. In 2010 Barbara was hit in the left eye with a baseball. This injury
has caused permanent damage to her eyesight and she has developed glaucoma as a
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 21 of 46 Pg ID 4254
4
result. She has to take medication for this condition daily to prevent blindness.
She underwent cataract surgery in September 2011 and her condition must be
monitored every four months to ensure that her lens does not become dislodged.
This injury has also affected her peripheral vision. She also has been diagnosed
with rheumatoid arthritis, which limits the mobility and dexterity of her hands and
wrists. She recently was diagnosed with gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD),
which affects her ability to swallow and digest food, and she may have to undergo
a series of endoscopy procedures. She takes Pantoprazole for this condition.
11. Because of P.A. 297, Barbara lost her health care coverage on
December 31, 2012. We obtained a personal Blue Cross Blue Shield policy for her
for January 1, 2013 through July 31, 2013, which cost us $1,798 in premiums. Her
coverage through the Flex Blue plan was less comprehensive than what she was
receiving from the Citys coverage. Under Flex Blue, she had no dental coverage.
Her deductible for in network medical care was $5,000 as compared to $200 in the
City Plan. Her prescription coverage only paid 50% of the cost of my medications,
as opposed to the City Plan, which covered everything but $5 on generic
medications, $25 on branded formulary medications, and $50 on branded non-
formulary medications. Flex Blue required her to pay 20% of all office visits,
whereas the City plan required only a $25 office co-pay. Her health care coverage
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 22 of 46 Pg ID 4255
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 23 of 46 Pg ID 4256
Exhibit 18.F
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 24 of 46 Pg ID 4257
1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK
BLOSS and GERARDO ASCHERI,
DENISE MILLER and MICHELLE
JOHNSON,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official
capacity as Governor of the state of
Michigan,
Defendant.
_______________________________
_____
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
Hon. David M. Lawson
DECLARATION OF BARBARA RAMBER IN SUPPORT OF
PLAINTIFFS MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
I, Barbara Ramber, hereby declare and state as follows:
1. I make this declaration of my own personal knowledge, and if called
as a witness, I can and will testify competently to the matters stated herein.
2. I work part-time in the food-service division of Kalamazoo Public
Schools. I am fifty-five years old, and I reside in Kalamazoo, Michigan. I was
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 25 of 46 Pg ID 4258
2
born in Santa Monica, California and have lived in Michigan for the past twenty-
nine years.
3. My life partner is JoLinda Jach, who is fifty years old. We have been
together for nineteen years. In 1997, we had a formal commitment ceremony in
California, attended by my father and sister and two close friends. My relationship
with JoLinda is founded on mutual pledges of emotional and financial support.
4. JoLinda and I are financially interdependent. I have given JoLinda
powers of attorney to make medical decisions for me in case I become ill. We also
own our home jointly and share all of our finances, and we are raising two children
together, our twelve-year-old son Dylan Ramber-Jach and our ten-year-old
daughter Jordan Ramber-Jach.
5. Because I work part time, my employer does not cover my health
care.
6. I have been covered under JoLindas City benefits plan for fourteen
years with the exception of the period from December 31, 2012 until August 2013
when my coverage was ended because of Act 297. I am covered as an Other
Eligible Adult through the Family Plan Jolinda signed up for with the City. We
pay $262 per month in premiums for the family coverage and $6.00 a month for
my dental coverage, and JoLinda is taxed by the State on the Citys estimate of the
value of my coverage
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 26 of 46 Pg ID 4259
3
7. In 2010, I was hit in my left eye with a baseball. My eyesight has
been permanently damaged, and I now have glaucoma in that eye as a result of the
injury. I have to take medication daily to prevent blindness. The eye pressure is
checked every four months to monitor the glaucoma and to assure the medication
dosage is correct. I underwent surgery in September 2011 for a cataract that
progressed rapidly from the eye trauma. There is structural damage to the portion
of the eye that holds the lens. I have my eyes checked every four months to make
sure the lens is intact and has not dislodged. My peripheral vision is limited and I
have to be very careful in terms of physical activity, including playing with my
kids. In addition, my doctor recently diagnosed me with rheumatoid arthritis,
which affects my wrist and tendons. My hands have become deformed, and this
has affected my dexterity and ability to lift things. My job responsibilities include
lifting large pans of hot food out of the convection ovens and placing them in
steam tables. I have had to rely on the assistance of my co-workers to perform this
task. I also have been diagnosed with gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), a
condition which affects my ability to swallow and digest food, and I may have to
undergo endoscopy procedures to determine the extent of damage. I currently am
prescribed Pantoprazole for this condition.
8. Because of P.A. 297, I lost my health care coverage on December 31,
2012. Jolinda and I obtained a personal Blue Cross Blue Shield policy for me from
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 27 of 46 Pg ID 4260
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 28 of 46 Pg ID 4261
Exhibit 18.G
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 29 of 46 Pg ID 4262
1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK BLOSS and
GERARDO ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER
and MICHELLE JOHNSON,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official capacity
as Governor of the state of Michigan,
Defendant.
____________________________________
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
Hon. David M. Lawson
DECLARATION OF DOAK BLOSS IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS MOTION FOR
SUMMARY JUDGMENT
I, Doak Bloss, hereby declare and state as follows:
1. I make this declaration of my own personal knowledge, and if called as a witness,
I can and will testify competently to the matters stated herein.
2. I have worked for Ingham County for more than fifteen years. I was originally
hired as an Access to Health Care Coordinator, and I am now a Health Equity and Social Justice
Coordinator. In addition to ensuring that uninsured people in Ingham County have access to
health care, I participate in a national initiative, funded by the Kellogg Foundation, that seeks to
transform public health programs within a social justice framework. My job duties and
responsibilities are very similar to the duties and responsibilities of my heterosexual colleague,
who serves as Environmental Justice Coordinator for the County.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 30 of 46 Pg ID 4263
2
3. I am sixty years old, and I live in Lansing, Michigan. I have been a Lansing
resident since 1975. I have lived in Michigan all of my life, have my family here, and attended
college at Michigan State University.
4. My life partner is Gerardo Ascheri, who is fifty-six years old. We met when we
were both working on a musical production for a community theaterI was the director and
Gerardo was the audition accompanist. We have been together for twenty years. We would
marry each other if Michigan law allowed it. My relationship with Gerardo is founded on
mutual pledges of emotional and financial support.
5. Gerardo and I are financially interdependent. I have given Gerardo durable
powers of attorney to make medical and financial decisions for me in case I become
incapacitated and cannot make those decisions for myself. We also share all of our finances and
own a home together.
6. Gerardo taught piano part-time through Michigan State Universitys community
outreach program for nineteen years. Now he runs an at-home piano studio where he teaches
students. Because he is self-employed, Gerardo does not have employer-provided health care
coverage.
7. Gerardo has been covered under my County benefits plan for medical, dental and
vision coverage since July 27, 2004, first as a domestic partner and then as an Other Qualified
Adult on August 1, 2009. Gerardos benefits were terminated on December 31, 2012 as a result
of P.A. 297. His benefits as an Other Eligible Adult were reinstated on November 1, 2013, as a
result of the preliminary injunction issued by this Court.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 31 of 46 Pg ID 4264
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 32 of 46 Pg ID 4265
Exhibit 18.H
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 33 of 46 Pg ID 4266
1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK BLOSS and
GERARDO ASCHERI, DENISE MILLER
and MICHELLE JOHNSON,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official capacity
as Governor of the state of Michigan,
Defendant.
____________________________________
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
Hon. David M. Lawson
DECLARATION OF GERARDO ASCHERI IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS MOTION
FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
I, Gerardo Ascheri, hereby declare and state as follows:
1. I make this declaration of my own personal knowledge, and if called as a witness,
I can and will testify competently to the matters stated herein.
2. I live in Lansing, Michigan. I have lived in Michigan for twenty-five years. I
grew up in Argentina, and I became an American citizen on June 15, 2010.
3. I met my life partner, Doak Bloss, when we were working in a community theater
production of the musical Godspell at Lansing Community College in Lansing. Doak was
directing the show, and I was the audition accompanist. We have been in a committed, loving
relationship for twenty years and would marry each other if Michigan law allowed it. My
relationship with Doak is founded on mutual pledges of emotional and financial support.
4. For seventeen years, I taught piano part-time through Michigan State Universitys
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 34 of 46 Pg ID 4267
2
community outreach program. Now I am self-employed as a piano teacher. I run a studio from
our home.
5. Doak and I are financially interdependent. We share all of our finances and own a
home together. I have given him power of attorney to make medical and financial decisions in
case I am not able to make them myself. He has done the same for me.
6. Because I am self-employed, I do not have access to employer-provided health
care coverage. I have been covered under Doaks County plan since around 2004. These
benefits cost us $183.00 per month, and Doak is taxed on the roughly $6,000 the County
contributes to my benefits.
7. I have high blood pressure and cholesterol issues. I have to take regular medicine
for these conditions. Without the Countys insurance coverage, this medication would cost us
more than $130 per month.
8. Because of P.A. 297, I lost my health care coverage on December 31, 2012 when
Doaks former contract expired. I obtained insurance from Blue Cross Network of Michigan
from January 1, 2013 through October 31, 2013. The insurance cost us a total of $4,595 in
premiums. In addition we paid $605.71 in deductibles, $315.00 out of pocket for dental care,
and $72.82 for medication. My health insurance benefits through Doaks employer were
restored on November 1, 2013, as a result of the preliminary injunction granted by this Court.
However, if P.A. 297 goes back into effect, I will lose my coverage on December 31, 2014 when
Doaks contract expires.
9. This law came as a shock to us and has caused a great deal of worry and anxiety.
I left Argentina to come to the United States because I wanted to live in a country that treated
people fairly and with dignity. This law goes against all the principals and ideals that this
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 35 of 46 Pg ID 4268
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 36 of 46 Pg ID 4269
Exhibit 18.I
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 37 of 46 Pg ID 4270
1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK
BLOSS and GERARDO ASCHERI,
DENISE MILLER and MICHELLE
JOHNSON,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official
capacity as Governor of the state of
Michigan,
Defendant.
_______________________________
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
Hon. David M. Lawson
DECLARATION OF DENISE MILLER IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS
MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
I, Denise Miller, hereby declare and state as follows:
1. I make this declaration based on my own personal knowledge, and if
called as a witness, I can and will testify competently to the matters stated herein.
2. I am an English teacher at Kalamazoo Valley Community College,
where I have taught for seventeen years. I received tenure there in 1997. My job
duties and responsibilities are very similar to the duties and responsibilities of the
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 38 of 46 Pg ID 4271
2
heterosexual teachers at Kalamazoo Valley Community College. I have a B.F.A.
in creative writing and an M.A. in English literature.
3. I live in Kalamazoo, Michigan. I received my M.A. from Central
Michigan University and taught there for a few years. As well, I taught at Mid
Michigan Community College and Southwest Michigan College before coming to
KVCC. My partner and I founded a non-profits arts and social justice organization
called Fire 6 years ago. I am also in the process of opening a small business.
4. My life partner is Michelle Johnson; we have been together for ten
years. Although mutual friends had been trying to introduce us for years, we
finally met when I presented a paper on the ability for poetry and expression to
change the lives of elementary, middle and high school kids at an Imagining
Michigan conference. We held a commitment ceremony on December 31, 2004.
More than 100 people cameincluding my boss, the President of Kalamazoo
Valley Community College. My relationship with Michelle is founded on mutual
pledges of emotional and financial support.
5. Michelle and I are financially interdependent. Michelle is the primary
beneficiary of my life insurance policy. A few years ago, I had to have surgery, so
I gave her a durable power of attorney to make medical decisions for me if
something happened and I could not make them myself. We share all expenses,
including rent, groceries, car payments, and auto insurance.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 39 of 46 Pg ID 4272
3
6. Kalamazoo Valley Community College began offering Other
Eligible Adult coverage in May 2011, so I added Michelle to my plan for medical,
dental, and vision coverage because she did not have coverage at the time.
However, when P.A. 297 passed, the College cut off Michelles benefits. Now she
has no health insurance. She works for a nonprofit that does not offer coverage.
7. During the short time that Michelle was covered under my plan, the
premiums cost us $17.34 per month and I was taxed on the Colleges contribution.
8. Michelle has non-malignant fibroid tumors in her uterus and on her
breasts, a medical condition that requires continued monitoring. If her tumors
grow, she will need surgery.
9. We have researched the cost of health insurance for Michelle by
searching online, calling insurers, etc. The best option we were able to locate
would cost us $288 per month in premiums. Unlike the Colleges plan, this
coverage would not include dental, vision, or prescription costs.
10. Independent coverage for Michelle would cost more than we can
afford to pay. If P.A. 297 is not reversed, Michelle will probably have to go
without health insurance. Michelles grandfather died of an aneurysm and her
mother also has had one that burst and is currently living with another. As such,
Michelle has been told that she will need to monitor her own health as this is a
hereditary condition.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 40 of 46 Pg ID 4273
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 41 of 46 Pg ID 4274
Exhibit 18.J
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 42 of 46 Pg ID 4275
1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
SOUTHERN DIVISION
THERESA BASSETT and CAROL
KENNEDY, PETER WAYS and JOE
BREAKEY, JOLINDA JACH and
BARBARA RAMBER, DOAK
BLOSS and GERARDO ASCHERI,
DENISE MILLER and MICHELLE
JOHNSON,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
RICHARD SNYDER, in his official
capacity as Governor of the state of
Michigan,
Defendant.
_______________________________
Case No. 2:12-cv-10038
Hon. David M. Lawson
DECLARATION OF MICHELLE S. JOHNSON IN SUPPORT OF
PLAINTIFFS MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
I, Michelle Johnson, hereby declare and state as follows:
1. I make this declaration based on my own personal knowledge, and if
called as a witness, I can and will testify competently to the matters stated herein.
2. I am the Executive Director of the nonprofit Fire Historical and
Cultural Arts Collaborative, a Kalamazoo-based organization dedicated to
combining social justice initiatives with art and culture. Before I worked for the
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 43 of 46 Pg ID 4276
2
Collaborative, I was an historian for the state of Michigan. I have a Ph.D. in
American Culture from the University of Michigan. I come from a long legacy of
black and white women and men who have made their homes in Michigan since
the late 1800s on one side and since the early 1920s on another. I was born into a
varied family history of lumber, education, domestic work, construction and
service in 1962 and integrated my elementary school in Saginaw as the only black
child for 4 years. These sometimes painful experiences and my families response
to them shored in me a deep commitment to social justice and equality and a
loyalty to Michigan. I received my BA from Michigan State University and, after
living in New Mexico, chose to return to Michigan for graduate school over
several schools.
3. My partner is Denise Miller, with whom I have been in a committed
relationship for ten years. We met when I saw Denise present a paper at a
conference on Imagining Michigan and Public Scholarship. We had a commitment
ceremony on December 31, 2004more than 100 people celebrated with us. My
relationship with Denise is founded on mutual pledges of emotional and financial
support.
4. Denise and I are financially interdependent. Denise is the primary
beneficiary of my life insurance policy, and I have power of attorney for her
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 44 of 46 Pg ID 4277
3
medical decisions. We share all of our expensesrent, groceries, car payments,
and auto insurance.
5. When Kalamazoo Valley Community College began offering Other
Eligible Adult coverage in August 2011, Denise put me on her health insurance
plan. However, after P.A. 297 passed, I lost my benefits. Now I have no health
insurance. My employer does not offer health insurance benefits.
6. During the short time that I was covered under the Colleges plan, the
premiums cost us $17.34 per month. Denise is expected to pay a percentage of the
monthly premium of providing Cobra coverage in taxes for my benefits.
7. I have non-malignant uterine fibroid tumors, and if they grow I will
need surgery. I also have fibrous breast tissue that requires yearly monitoring.
Additionally, my grandfather died of an aneurysm and my mother has one that
burst when I was a child and another requires constant monitoring. This is
hereditary. Therefore, I will be required to have regular scans to ensure I have not
inherited this condition.
8. After looking online and calling insurers, I have found that
independent health insurance would cost $288 per month and, unlike under
Denises plan, my dental, vision, and prescription costs would not be included.
9. Denise and I cannot afford to pay for individual coverage for me, so if
P.A. 297 remains in effect, I will not have health insurance coverage.
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 45 of 46 Pg ID 4278
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-32 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 46 of 46 Pg ID 4279
Exhibit 19
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-33 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 1 of 8 Pg ID 4280
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 81 Filed 01/23/14 Pg 1 of 7 Pg ID 3102 2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-33 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 2 of 8 Pg ID 4281
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 81 Filed 01/23/14 Pg 2 of 7 Pg ID 3103 2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-33 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 3 of 8 Pg ID 4282
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 81 Filed 01/23/14 Pg 3 of 7 Pg ID 3104 2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-33 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 4 of 8 Pg ID 4283
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 81 Filed 01/23/14 Pg 4 of 7 Pg ID 3105 2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-33 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 5 of 8 Pg ID 4284
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 81 Filed 01/23/14 Pg 5 of 7 Pg ID 3106 2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-33 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 6 of 8 Pg ID 4285
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 81 Filed 01/23/14 Pg 6 of 7 Pg ID 3107 2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-33 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 7 of 8 Pg ID 4286
2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 81 Filed 01/23/14 Pg 7 of 7 Pg ID 3108 2:12-cv-10038-DML-MJH Doc # 88-33 Filed 02/17/14 Pg 8 of 8 Pg ID 4287