Rohr, Mark - Investigation Testimony

Transcript of the Testimony of Mark Rohr
Date: November 5, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation
Printed On: November 13, 2013
Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. Phone: 417-358-4078 Fax: 417-451-1114 Email:daholliday@hotmail.com Internet:
Mark Rohr
In Re:
Joplin Critical Investigation
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IN RE:
JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION
SWORN STATEMENT OF
MARK ROHR
Taken on Tuesday, November 5, 2013, from 1:52 p.m. to 3:10 p.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626 S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of Missouri, before SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650, a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.
Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078
Mark Rohr
In Re:
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APPEARANCES
MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE Loraine & Associates, LLC 4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300 Osage Beach, MO 65065
tellaw@loraineandassociates.com
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In Re:
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S T I P U L A T I O N
IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that this Sworn Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and afterwards reduced into typewriting. It is further stipulated that the signature of the witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of said witness shall be of the same force and effect as though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.
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In Re:
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DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE
5-4
E X H I B I T S
Exhibit #A.
5-9
Advice of Rights
Exhibit #12 Memo
7-10
Note:
Exhibits in separate binder
(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic
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In Re:
Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MARK ROHR Having been first duly sworn and examined, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE: Q. Sir, for the record we briefly talked outside earlier and I introduced myself and you introduced yourself and we talked a little bit about what we're doing here. I'm going
to give you what is Exhibit #A, it's called an Advice of Rights. Basically it's part of
the Garrity investigation and it reads as follows: "Advice of Rights. I wish to
advise you that you are being questioned as part of an official investigation by the City of Joplin. You will be asked questions
related and specifically directed to the performance of your official duties of fitness for office. You are entitled to all
the rights and privileges guaranteed by the laws of the Constitution of the State and the Constitution of the United States, including the right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself. I further wish to advise you that
if you refuse to testify or to answer questions relating to the performance of your
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In Re:
Page 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. official duties, you will be subject to departmental charges, which could result in your dismissal from your official duties. you do answer, these questions may be used against you in relation to subsequent departmental charges, but not in any subsequent criminal proceedings. I have read If
and fully understand the Advice of Rights as it appears above. This information has also
been read to me prior to answering any questions." said? Yes. And you understand vaguely what the Garrity matters are about? Yes. You are City Manager? Yes. Do you have any legal training? No. Having said that, sir, I would like you to print your name and then sign it, date it, and we can proceed. (Witness complies) Print it and sign it. Did you understand what I just
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Page 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. (Witness complies) All right. request? Yes. All right. Prior to coming in here today, Is Sir, have you complied with my
sir, you handed me a one page document. that true? Yes. I'm going to have that marked as Exhibit Number #12. handed me? Yes, it is. All right.
Is this the document that you
Sir, would you explain what this
particular document is? It's a copy of a memo or email that I got from the Building Maintenance Supervisor, and I had asked him who had the keys that could access my office and that he would be the one that would be in a centralized position to be able to know who all had keys, and he provided that list to me and I thought it might be helpful to you. And that's in
reference to the post-it note, the disappearing post-it note situation. Yes, so just to recant a little bit or just
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Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. to further explain that, we have eight people that have been listed on here as people that could have access to your desk? He mentions I think narratively three others down below the list. Hertzberg, Schaller, and Tim Nyander. these are people that generally I see maintenance, custodian, custodian, custodian. What is an IS? Information Systems. I.T. Now
Oh, the same thing would be true with Morris and Kent? Yeah, both of those guys are I.T. or IS? Building Knox Box? That's the Fire Department access in case there's a fire. box. But that would be not be to your office? I believe what he's trying to say there is that there will be a copy of that in that Knox box. That's kind of disconcerting. Yeah, there's more people on that list than I thought. There was a mystery and there didn't appear to be anyone force their way into the There's kind of a master
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Page 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. office so that leads me to believe that someone used the key. David Hertzberg, who is he? He was the Public Works Director. He was
demoted recently, I should say reassigned, he was reassigned to another position and he's working on CBG related activities for the City in response to the tornado. What is CBG? CBG, Community Development Block Grand. Is he an employee of yours? Yes, he's still employed. What about Jack Schaller? He resigned recently. employed. Who is he? He was the Assistant Public Works Director. Under Hertzberg? Yes, sir. And who is Tim Nyander? He was a parallel position or comparable position with Jack underneath David. He He is no longer
retired from the City I think last November and works someplace in northern Arkansas now. Underneath David Hertzberg?
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Page 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Hertzberg. This list of people would be germane inasmuch as you have a claim that somebody took a certain note off of your desk. Was it off
your desk or in a secure location? I believe it was on the credenza behind my desk. I have a window behind my desk and
there's a table there that has my computer, has some books on one side, then it has some post-it notes and business cards on a stack, but it's located right behind my desk so not necessarily on my desk but right behind it. Sir, I'm going to hand you what's been marked Exhibit #1, today's date, and see if you can identify what that is? obviously. It looks like a note. post-it note. We're making reference when you say the post-it note, this information on Exhibit #12 here is people that you think had possible access to your what I would call private or secure area, and would this be a copy of the note that -All I know. It could have been the It's a copy
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Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Let me finish my question. Sure. Would this be a copy of the note that has allegedly disappeared from your office? Could very well be. And what I mean by that Mr. Scearce made
is I've not seen the note.
a reference to a note at a press conference that he held. You have not seen this note before? No, that's not what I'm saying. I don't know
if this is the note that he was referring to in the press conference. I'm assuming since
it's in the context that you're asking me that it is, but I don't know that for sure. The fact that he mentioned it, there was a phone number, her phone number on it. Who is her? Carol Stark is the Editor of the paper. Is this in your handwriting? Yes. Everything on here is in your handwriting? It appears so, yes. So I understand what you're saying. You
don't know if this is the note, but this looks like your handwriting and it looks like
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Page 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. a note that contains all the necessary ingredients. Would you agree with that?
Yes, I'm assuming this is the note he's referring to. This is in my handwriting,
this looks like the post-it note that I had on my credenza behind my desk. I don't know
if this is the note he was referring to in the press conference. Okay. Let me share this with you. I have
been given this copy subject to my questioning and investigations from your City Attorney. This is a copy of the note that he
had so I assume - I don't know if that's the same. I haven't talked with Mr. Scearce or
Mr. Woolston or any of those people yet, but this is what I have been provided so I'm assuming since it's in your handwriting that this is a note that came from you. safe assumption? I think that I wrote this and this was on my desk or my credenza at some point. City Attorney got it I don't know. Let me say this. provided. This is what I've been How the Is that a
And I'm going to ask you to I mean I think I can
translate this for me.
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Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. read it. I obviously see the name Stark, but
I want to go on the first line and we can do this simply, I guess. numbers on each line. I'm going to mark Sir, I see at least Would you
what I have number is 8 lines.
look at that and have I marked 8 lines and does it make sense? Can you go line by line
and tell me what it says? Yes. What does line 1 say? "Address was". What does line 2 say? "Carol Stark extremely" or I guess "extremely" could be considered line 3. kind of straddling them. "Address was", what does that have reference to? I'm not sure. I don't recall specifically Carol Stark is the It's
what it was referencing. Publisher of the paper.
Has she talked with you specifically any time? Yes, she asked me questions. About this? With respect to Mr. Scearce and Mr. Scearce
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Page 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. asking for a meeting in my office in March with the City Attorney and the Police Chief. I think she and I talked on more than one occasion. Her name is referenced on line 2? Carol Stark, yes. And that's in your handwriting. Line 3 looks
like that word that you said is "extremely"? "Extremely". Line 4, what does that say? "8/12/13". And what is that in reference to? It's a date, I'm assuming. What does that say back there? "Helpful". Is that all it says? say? "Contributing to a continual criminal enterprise". What is that in reference to? I believe in the past, I don't know if that came up during a conversation with her, but that would have been the alleged charge that would have been attributed to Mr. Scearce's behavior. Line 5, what does that
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Page 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And the charge would be this matter involving Lovett bookmaking, I guess? Yeah, I'm not sure if - there's two guys that were involved in that that were charged whose names were in the paper. Lyle and Lovett.
I'm not sure which one was the one that rented space from Mr. Scearce. It may have I can't
been Lovett, it may have been Lyle. remember specifically.
The next line, number 6, what's that word? "Lovett". And what's the last combination of words on that line? "Criminal enterprise". Line 7, what does that say? "FBI request issues". What does line 8 say? "Surrounding". Do you know what "surrounding" means? I mean I think it's part of this observation, but it may have been part of the conversation that I had with her. So this might be some kind of notes that you took with the conversation with Carol? Yeah.
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Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. And that would be Stark? Yes. I am particularly interested in the "contributing to criminal activity". I mean
I think you would probably be interested in that yourself. Yes, it is. charge. That's an interesting phrase.
What I understand it's a legal
I'm not expert.
Do you know of the existence of an FBI report? Have you seen it?
I've never seen it, no, sir. Does Carol Stark know of the existence of an FBI report? She knows of the existence. she's seen it. request. I don't know if
They made a public records
That was the gist of the
conversation was that they had a request in for well over a year now for that file and she was doing an article on Mr. Scearce and this conversation surrounded that article and the meeting that he held in my office in March. And that meeting in March, there's a date on here of 8/12/13. that? What's significant about
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Page 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. I would imagine that's probably on or about the time that we had the phone conversation. With whom? Carol. Carol and you? Yes. And the meeting in March, was that March before this audit? Yes. What was significant about that meeting? Mr. Scearce had called for that meeting with the Police Chief and he asked for it through the City Attorney so the four of us were present in my office. So the Police Chief, yourself, the City Attorney, and Mr. Scearce? Yes. What was the nature of the meeting? Scearce want that meeting? He was upset that the Police Chief had told me about circumstances surrounding him based on the FBI investigation. So what had the Police Chief told you? He told me some of the issues surrounding Mr. Scearce's involvement with that. Why did
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Page 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. What were those issues? I don't know that I can say that. that I can't. By whom? The Police Chief. Well, I'm doing an official Garrity investigation. Now would be a good time for I was told
you to tell me what he said because I'll have him here soon. Am I allowed to say that if that runs afoul of restrictions in the law? the file. I've never seen
All I know is that he was
apprising me -Let me explain something to you. What we're
doing I'm not doing a criminal investigation. I'm doing a civil investigation of what the City knows. The only way I can find out what
the City knows is talk to the City employees. Sure. Then the City knows what the City employees know. And one of the things that I want to
know about is what the Chief told you and therefore you have a choice of not telling me or choosing to tell me, you have the choice of telling me or you can stay mute.
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Page 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. I'm not being contentious. No, I know that. I'm explaining.
I don't want to violate a law in telling you to do so because then that puts me in the trip bag. I have no problems at all and
would have liked to early on told everything that I know and I was told that I couldn't do it until the file itself was released and then me talking about it would be mute because it would be all in the file. Well, one of the things I'm going to tell you today is when you leave this room you're not to talk about what we talked about, okay? Okay. And I'm going to tell that to everybody that comes through the door. And I don't have any problems with that. But I am going to tell you that I'm going to talk with the Police Chief and we're going to find out why he thinks I can't know about that. And one of the things that I'll be
doing is making a recommendation based on what recommendations I can do, I can discover facts, I can have people refuse to tell me those facts and they then can be disciplined
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Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. by whatever the body is, or they can tell me stuff and the stuff that they tell me if it's something they shouldn't be doing they can get fired. It's not a good scenario.
I would love to tell you, but I just don't want to get myself in trouble by doing so. Well, you're going to get in trouble by not doing so because I need to investigate this. I'd like to have some professional counsel before I do so. And I'm a little troubled by
to me the issue is how did the note get removed, not what's in the note. Well, we're going to look into that. going to look into that. I'm
One of the things
I've been asked to do is find out both of these councilmen's involvement in certain issues. You know as well as I do what I'm
supposed to be doing here, the City Council gave me three matters to talk about, and I don't think there's any secret about it. It
was in the newspaper before I even got here. One of them was the nature of the disappearance of the post-it note. Well, if you want me to be more specific, "The conduct of the Mayor Pro Tem Scearce
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Page 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. involving lease of a building to an individual convicted of bookmaking. Specifically it was the desire of the City that Loraine request the file held by the Federal Bureau of Investigation regarding Scearce's conduct and provide a report of the same to the Council members. Two, facts and
circumstances surrounding release of information related to Mr. Scearce's conduct including but not limited to the handwritten note referenced by -" Say that again. Could you slow down?
"Facts and circumstances surrounding release of information related to Mr. Scearce's conduct including but not limited to the handwritten note referenced by Mr. Scearce in City Manager's Rohr's handwriting. Number 3,
the fact and circumstance in an ethical consideration surrounding the involvement of Council member Woolston with Charlie Kuehn, Four State Homes and subsidiaries and related entities, and the City's master developer Wallace-Bajjali with respect to the purchase, sale or leasing of real estate for current and future developments."
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Page 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Who wrote that? This? I don't know. It was in the newspaper
and this is my contract. That's a direct quote from the newspaper? It is. And it's also my contract.
I remember the discussion at the Council meeting it was the nature of the circumstances of the disappearance of the post-it note. That's one of the things that I'm looking at here that I just told you. Well, but I mean we're concentrating on specifics on the post-it note which I think is not the primary issue. The primary issue It was
is in my mind a crime was committed.
sitting on my credenza in my office and Mr. Scearce ended up with it. happen? I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell everybody how that happened at the end of this investigation, but one of the things I need to do is I need to have answers to the questions. If everybody came in here and Now how did that
said what you said I wouldn't be able to tell anybody anything.
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Page 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. I'm not trying to be pretentious, I just don't want to commit a crime by telling you what -Well, guess what, I just told you when we read this thing that you signed that you can't be committing a crime if you reported the information. again, Exhibit #A? (Witness complies) Do you want to read this Read it again. So you're asking me to
tell you specifics of what the Police Chief told me? I'm asking you to tell me everything the Police Chief told you. with my request? And I'm not subject to any criminal charges? That's what it says. Okay. Then I guess I'll tell you everything And will you comply
I can tell you. I think you should, but I'm not your lawyer. Okay, let's talk about the question what did the Police Chief tell you about Mr. Scearce? He told me that he had involvement, business involvement with an illegal bookmaking operation, and that he rented his space in the early 90's I believe for a four year time
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Page 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. period for an illegal bookmaking operation. Mr. Lovett? It was either Lyle or Lovett. Okay. What else did he tell you?
That Mr. Scearce facilitated expansion of the bookmaking operation because I guess it was doing well and needed other amenities and things to enable it to operate in the growing manner that was apparently taking place. Okay. What else?
And that he told me that he wanted me to know and he thought the Mayor should know in light of any potential charges that could be brought against Mr. Scearce and against the City in an unfavorable light. And these are all things that the Police Chief himself told you? Yes. What's the Police Chief's name? Lane Roberts. I'll be talking to him soon. he tell you? That Mr. Scearce admitted to those facts to the investigators thinking that the statute of limitations had expired. What else did
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Page 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. You mean the federal investigators? I believe it was the FBI and there were some local people that were assisting in it. don't know who they are. You don't know anything -I know one guy's name was Altic. Who? Altic, James Altic. What does James Altic do? that name? I think it's A-L-T-I-C, or T-E-C. What does he do? He used to work for us and was assisting the FBI investigation. City policeman? Yes, sir. Is he still available? I think so. I think he's the Chief at one of He has since retired. How do you spell I
the smaller cities. Would Lane Roberts know where he is? Yes. Let me have his name again so I can get that name down. Do you want to spell that again for me? I believe it's A-L-T-I-C or T-E-C, one of the
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Page 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. two. And he was an investigator for the City of Joplin? He was an officer. I'm not exactly sure what
capacity. He was helping in the investigation. investigator. Okay. He may have been an I'm not real sure.
Is there anything else that you can
remember that the Police Chief told you concerning the investigation of Mr. Scearce by the FBI? Nothing that I can recall at this point. Did the Police Chief tell you what his source of his information was? No, I don't remember. He may have. I assume
it was directly from the investigation. But you don't recall as you sit here now? He did mention that he had asked the FBI for permission to convey the limited circumstances of the investigation to me and the Mayor. Who was his contact with the FBI? He may have mentioned it, but I don't remember. bit. I know they change cases quite a
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Page 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. They do. In this article, "Joplin Mayor Pro
Tem Accuses City Manager of Bully Tactics. City Manager Releases Response". dispute between you and Scearce? He called a press conference I believe because he knew the article was going to appear in the paper on Sunday and he called a press conference that Friday and directed charges at me, and once I found out what he said I responded. What was your response? I don't remember exactly what I said, but I basically refuted his allegations, that I wasn't the one behind the article. The Globe This is the
had been looking into this for in excess of a year and that I had conversations with them, but I didn't prompt the article, that they'd been working on it for quite some time and that she asked me about it and I responded to her questions and we talked about it. This would have been Carol? Yes. Did you tell her what you told me? I didn't tell her anything about the FBI restrictions.
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Page 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. You just said that you had some information that involved him? Her main thrust was the March meeting because it had the appearance of Mr. Scearce trying to cover up and admonish the Police Chief for doing what he did through me. Here is a quote, "He has stated to many that he wants to be Mayor," making reference to Mr. Scearce. Yes. "He will not be able to do so if I tell all that I know regarding the circumstances." assume that's your quote? Uh-huh. "Additionally having a strong personality sitting in the City Manager's chair would prevent him from imposing his version of the good ole boy network system government that has held Joplin back in the past." If the I
claim holds up when the article appeared in the local paper on Sunday and even more so when the FBI's records are it says, "In a statement Mr. Scearce claims to be a fair and honest person. Citizens of Joplin will have
an opportunity to decide if that claim holds
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Page 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. up when the article appears in a local newspaper on Sunday or even more so when the FBI records are released." Exactly. This is an article I'm reading in reference, it's called Exhibit #2 in this investigation, but it's something that you're aware of? You're aware of this article? I will say that's an accurate depiction of my comments in response to this press conference. So what is it that you believe that if he runs for Mayor -He doesn't run. He's appointed.
And who is he appointed by, the other -Council members. -- Council members. So if he's appointed to
Mayor you believe that you have information that will discredit him to the extent that -I think it's out. Mr. Scearce admitted, he
calls it clarifying, but admitted to the paper a week ago Friday, he didn't use the word lie, but that's what everyone thinks, that he did know about the gambling operation when he was on record to the Globe and the
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Page 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Council saying he didn't. He claims not to have known at the time that he leased to the guy? Yeah, he claims not to have known at all. Ever? He's splitting hairs. He's trying to create When did he find
a nuance, a distinction.
out, I don't know, but he was on record saying he had no idea that there was a gambling operation there. And then a week
ago Friday I was out of town, apparently towards the end of the day the Globe put out an article saying Mr. Scearce printed a clarification where he acknowledged he knew there was a gambling operation in there. At some point? That he had been on record before on one occasion saying that he was not aware there was a gambling operation. Do you have a copy of that article that you're making reference to that he made the admission? Sure. I'm going to give you a sheet of paper here. I'll take that back. Maybe if you will
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Page 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. follow-up giving me -I'd be glad to do that, but it's also available at the Globe. Well, you know, anything that will help me. I've got a couple of dozen people to talk to. Yeah, I'm sure knowing the players as I do that you're getting a sculpted scenario. Well, I'd hope that we can get information from you that will -Well, not just me. There's other people.
When you say knowing the people who are you making reference to? The Globe asked the following Sunday in I think the letters to the editor for his resignation for betraying the public trust for lying about that. Has Carol Stark talked with you recently in the last couple of days? No. I asked Carol Stark to talk to me. wouldn't do it. Why is that? I have no idea. I think if she's got some information that would help me on this case that she'd be happy to do that. I would think that. I She
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Page 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. mean she can say some of my sources are private or whatever, but in any case she wouldn't talk to me and I'm kind of troubled by that. Do you know her well?
I mean I know her to see her on the street and chitchat with her, but it's not like we -No social? No, never. Are you married? Yes. What is the relationship between Mr. Woolston and you? He was Mayor during the storm and I was obviously City Manager. I respect him. I
think he's a very honest man, a very straightforward man, a very good Council member. that -No social? No social. I mean if we're at a downtown He's a very good man. Other than
event and he's there we may sit together for awhile. It's not like we make plans to go
out drinking together or anything like that. Has the Police Chief told you that he has
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Page 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. some kind of power to keep information from the rest of the board or from the Council or from you or from the City Attorney or something? of -He's never said that or implied that. I Does he claim to have some kind
personally thought he was pretty judicious in how he went about releasing information. just thought the City would be in a very embarrassing situation should charges be brought if the two top officials of the City weren't aware of anything that was going on with respect to Mr. Scearce, and this has been going on for years. on for five years. Are any of those mayors aware of these allegations? I mean you'd have to ask them. I don't This has been going He
remember the exact conversation, but they knew that there was an issue and that Mr. Scearce was somehow involved with the investigation. Who are the mayors you're making reference to? Gary Shaw, Mike Woolston, and the current
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Page 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. one, Mayor Kean, Colbert-Kean. Has your Police Chief initiated his own investigation on Scearce? No. Maybe it's just your nature as an
investigator you have to do that, but Lane Roberts is a very honorable man and in my estimation there isn't any fault to be laid in his lap. He was doing what he thought he
needed to do to convey information to us so that in the event that charges were brought or something embarrassing would happen with respect to Mr. Scearce that we weren't caught flat-footed. Why wouldn't Chief Roberts be interested in investigating a matter like that? Because this was part of an overall federal investigation that encompassed a lot of different things and a lot of different people, not just Mr. Scearce. was a part of it. Mr. Scearce
I couldn't characterize
the percentage of it, but this wasn't about investigating Mr. Scearce, it was a broad investigation and this developed as a result of it and he would have to get into the specifics because this wasn't just about Mr.
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Page 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Scearce. Mr. Woolston was involved in a company called Pro 100? Yes, sir. What was his involvement in that Pro 100? He was just a salesman my understanding. And the broker in that was Charlie Kuehn? No, Mr. Kuehn is not a principle in Pro 100. He's with the company I think is called Four State Homes. Who were the principles in Pro 100? Nick Kanakis, there's Dee Kassab, there's another guy, I don't remember his name, an older gentleman. There used to be four.
Doris Carlin is the fourth, but she's separated. I believe there's just three now,
but I don't have any intimate knowledge of Pro 100 and how they operate. Go through those names again for me. Dee Kassab. You might help me a little with the spelling. A. D-E-E K-A-S-S-A-B. Nick Kanakis, N-I-C-K
K-A-N-A-K-I-S.
There was another gentleman,
I can see his face, probably in his 60's, but I don't remember what his name is.
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Page 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Did Pro 100 work on the land acquisition for the Land Bank? Not to my knowledge. Who does Charlie Kuehn work for? I think he works for himself. own business. That's that Four State Homes? Yes, sir. And has he worked for your Land Bank? I don't think he was working for them. He He's got his
had acquired property I would assume for his own purposes in advance of that and at a certain point he developed a relationship with Wallace-Bajjali, and what the nature of that relationship is I'm not sure. privy to that. How did this buying this real estate, how did it all come about? that? The City hired a master developer, Wallace-Bajjali, out of Texas and the purpose was to work on different projects some of which had been developed and presented in the past within the City, some of them were new of their creation that they presented a list What do you know about I'm not
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Page 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. to Council. And any time following a natural
disaster when you try to do bigger type projects it's a real challenge to aggregate the property necessary so the City used the JRC, the Joplin Redevelopment Corporation, as the means to acquire that property, and that property in turn would be sold to the master developer so the projects can proceed. think Mr. Kuehn had bought some of the property early on and at some point formed some kind of relationship with Wallace-Bajjali so that the property that was needed in the areas that he had already acquired could be used for some of the bigger projects. Did Charlie Kuehn make a profit on that? I don't know what the circumstances are, sir. Q. How did Charlie Kuehn get connected with So I
Wallace-Bajjali? I think they just met organically. I'm not
sure who facilitated that and how that actually happened. You'd be surprised in a
town the size of Joplin how many connections are made just on the street so I don't know how that happened.
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Page 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Do you know if this Lovett is around? I
understand he actually did some hard time. I don't know, there were three bookies that were involved. I don't know any of them
personally, I don't believe I've ever met any of them. There's one that's in poor health
in Las Vegas and there's two that are still local, Lyle, one of them is named Lyle, one of them is Lovett, and then there's a third one. That's the guy in Vegas? I think it probably is, but I don't know that for sure. You've never met or talked with any of them? They could have been at one of those gatherings when I first got here, it could have been in a Kiwanis club, I may have done that, but I wouldn't recognize them if they ran me over in a car. Who contacted Wallace-Bajjali from the City? Wallace-Bajjali was having their meeting at a convention type setting with Chris Crossland who is one of the sons of a noteworthy construction company when the tornado hit and they were off site somewhere and Chris had to
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Page 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. excuse himself because he got a call because his mom's home was impacted and that's how they found out about Joplin. Then from there
it went to the Chamber of Commerce and Rob O'Brian, and from there it went to the City. Rob? O'Brian, who is the President of the Chamber. Q. The City and the Chamber have some kind of a
relationship? The Chamber does the economic development activities for the City. them. You actually pay them money to do that? Yes, sir. When you say Bajjali contacted the City who did they contact? Wallace-Bajjali, the introduction with Wallace-Bajjali was made through the Chamber to the City. And who at the Chamber? Mr. O'Brian. And what's his first name? Rob. How do you know Rob? I work with him every week. They contract with
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Page 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Daily? Not daily. And he was officially President of the Chamber at that time? He is. He's the professional. He's not the
Chamber - they've got a Chairman of the Board, but his title -Like Executive Director or something? Yes, he's my equivalent. So you guys work fairly closely? Yeah, probably once a week, maybe once every two weeks. Are you social friends with him? No, we've never done anything socially. So who brought the Wallace-Bajjali company to the attention of the board? or was it -Of the board being the City Council? Yes, the City Council. I guess probably me, yeah. Was Rob participating in that? Yeah, the first meeting that I remember was they were in town and over at the Chamber and Rob had invited me over and that's where I met him and that's where they sold their Would it be you
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Page 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. wares. That's where they said here's what we We went through a
do, here's what we can do.
competitive process eventually for our FPs and I think there were six firms that submitted and Council through that process chose Wallace-Bajjali. Who were the other firms? I don't remember. Is there a record of that? Yeah, I'm sure. Do you know what rose Benji Rosenberg, Dr. Benji Rosenberg, he's on the Council, what role did he have in this development program? He's the Council liaison, which means he attends the meetings but doesn't cast a vote. He's kind of an ex officio member. So he would actually shovel diplomacy back and forth between the two entities? Yeah, I guess that's the theory. How long has he been doing that? Oh, I think from the get go. I mean I don't
know when he was appointed to do that, but I think all throughout the whole Wallace-Bajjali experience, the Wallace-Bajjali/City experience I believe he
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Page 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. was the liaison. He seems to have some kind of complaint about Mr. Woolston. Are you aware of any of that?
Yeah, I mean that was after Mr. Woolston initiated discussion related to Mr. Scearce a meeting or two later Dr. Rosenberg brought up concerns that he had related to Mr. Woolston's experience with Wallace-Bajjali and various property sales. So am I getting the impression someway that you know, I don't know any of these people. I'm getting the impression that Rosenberg is not a fan of Woolston then? I say that's probably safe to assume. That's your impression? Dr. Rosenberg is good friends as he stated in the paper with Mr. Scearce. Do you get along okay with Rosenberg? No. Let me back up on that question. want to put you in a bad spot. you this question. I don't Let me ask
If I talk with Rosenberg
he's not going to be critical of too much of what Scearce has allegedly done? I'm assuming on my part that he wouldn't be.
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Page 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I don't know, you'd have to ask him. Just trying to get a feel for the players. And I will talk to him. Sure. What about Golden. Yes, sir. Would he be in a similar situation? He's friends with Benji and Mr. Scearce. I He's on the board?
believe he and Dr. Rosenberg went to school all the way through together. same age. How many people do you have on your City Council? Nine. I've got four identified there. I've got They're the
Woolston, Golden, Rosenberg, and Scearce. Where are the rest of them? other five? Morris Glaze, Trisha Raney, Mike Seibert, Gary Shaw, and Mayor Kean. I'm sorry, the second one was? Trisha Raney. Let's go down to Morris Glaze. What's your Who are the
perception of where does Morris Glaze fall on this he/she did it deal? What's your
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Page 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. impression? That's all I'm asking.
My impression would be that he would think Mr. Scearce has some issues. So he would be a Woolston guy, is that right? A. If I were venturing a guess I'd say yes.
What about Raney? She seems to be good friends with the Mayor. I've never asked her her opinion on it. If
I'd venture a guess I'd say she'd probably be sympathetic to Mr. Scearce. That's the present Mayor? Yeah. Where would she fall? Well, maybe I'd better back up. When the
current Mayor was picked it was 5 to 4 and it was the Mayor, Trisha Raney, Scearce, Rosenberg, and Golden that voted for her, so if that tells you anything. What's the Mayor's name? Mayor Colbert-Kean. But I mean you'd have to
ask her what her opinion is on the subject. We will. I'm not going to put you out there
all by yourself, I'm going to be talking to all these people. But I mean you're part of the reason why I'm here.
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Page 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Sure. So I start with you. Right. I don't have anything to hide, I just They
don't want to make them mad at me.
deserve to be able to respond to their own questions. And they will. Sure. So where is Seibert at? I think Seibert would probably be sympathetic to Mr. Woolston. And Shaw? I think he'd probably be sympathetic with Mr. Woolston, too. Seems like we have two camps? Well, there's a lot of talk in town about a divided Council so I think that's not a stretch of the imagination, but that's where we're at. Gary Shaw is a former Mayor? Yes, sir. Why is he no longer the Mayor? Every two years in April after the April elections when they seat a new Council they collectively vote as a group on who they want
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Page 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. to be Mayor and they pick that person. Gary
was the Mayor probably four or five years ago, then it was Woolston, now it's Mayor Colbert-Kean and they go through the selection process. big deal. How do you survive under that condition? Well, I've made it this far. I'm not sure. I don't know. And it's usually a pretty
We try to do our best.
How many contracts do you think we've bought? How many pieces of property? Property? I'd say 50 or so.
Have you, yourself, done any review of these properties whether Woolston -Very cursory. Let me finish that question. Whether
Woolston was in any way out of line in involvement in any of these property acquisitions? Have I personally investigated? Have you looked at any of the 50 transactions to see if there was high prices paid or anything? No, I haven't looked at it that closely. I
mean there's just too much going on, too many
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Page 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. things going on. I've got to recover from
the EF-5 tornado and everything involved with that, work with the master developer, and run the City at the same time and deal with everything else I have to deal with so I've looked at the agenda items as they've come up, I've not plunged into it to any great detail. Who would? I mean somebody has got to be
auditing these things. I would imagine the City Attorney. He's the To
legal advisor for all the JRC operations. what degree I don't know, you'd have to ask him, but I would imagine he would look at them more closely than anyone.
Do you have any financial people involved in this? Yes, our Finance Director is part of the process, too. Who is that? Leslie Haase, H-A-A-S-E. And what is Leslie Haase's background? She's a CPA. Do you know if she has done any review work? Does she work for you?
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Page 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. Yes. Has she done any review work on these contract prices or anything? Well, what happens is Wallace-Bajjali will present them to the City and the City will put them on the JRC agenda. look at them I don't know. them specifically. Who is they? Leslie and Brian, the Finance Director and City Attorney. As far as the set up on how all this got going what the City Attorney's input into that? In terms of? Setting up the 353. I think he's one of the primary people in the whole process. I have gleaned from some sources in the City that there's been complaints concerning the City Attorney's involvement in some of the early goings of the 353 Land Bank acquisition period. Are you familiar with any of those How closely they You'd have to ask
complaints? Complaints about what he was doing?
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Page 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Yes. Not specifically. I know there's complaints
about him in general, but not about the early part of the process anymore than the latter part of the process. Did any Council members tell you that he should have been involved and wasn't involved in the early processes of the land acquisition? complaints? No, mainly the complaints are that he - the complaints I've heard is that he tends to be on the negative side as it relates to Wallace-Bajjali. Why would that be? I don't know. I mean it's kind of a deep Have you heard those
seeded issue. I've worked with him for nine years and I have my own theories, but that's the nature I heard as it relates to the City Attorney to the redevelopment process, or that he is perhaps a little negative on the things with Wallace-Bajjali. Just Wallace-Bajjali or -Yeah, he can be that way in other areas, too, but I mean that was the nature of your
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Page 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. question. There has been some discussion concerning the Police Department's relevance in the affairs of City employees. What has been your
observation as to the Police Department investigating City employees? I don't know of any of those concerns. You have no knowledge of that? No. In terms of business activities? Not
Well, I mean investigating them, yes. only business, just in general City employees.
Does the Police Department look
into City employees' concerns? I guess every situation would be different. You don't know of any general complaints about that? No, I don't know of anything. I think we
have a very professional Police Department, very ethical Police Department. any problems along those lines. I don't see There was a
situation recently at the Street Department where we thought there were some issues involving free maintenance and taking materials and they were asked to look into it, and the first night they looked into it
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Page 51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. they caught a guy taking stuff home. Did that result in criminal -It was just a misdemeanor. him. Was there a discharge or any kind of -Yeah, we cleaned the whole department out. We recently reorganized the whole Public Works Department because there were a number of different problems in there, and that was part of the problem. You mentioned an ex member, one of the guys -Mr. Hertzberg, yes. Is that some of the result? Yes. Was that your investigation or the Police Department? It was kind of a combination. couple of major issues. There were a They just caught
There were
suspicions of theft that proved to be true to some level through maintenance. Secondly there were problems in the Building Department with collecting fees for code enforcement and for building permits. And not being properly accounted for?
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Page 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Right. And we looked into it. We think it
primarily was a management issue and that management issue has been cleared up with some of the changes we made. Double accounting now or something on it? Daily deposits, part of the problem was the deposits weren't getting from the Public Works Department on the fourth floor to the Finance Department on the third floor in a timely manner, and things were happening so quickly because of the tornado that they were piling up and it just got sloppy. What's your personal background? I've been City Manager, December 2nd will be 26 years since this is the fifth city I've managed, and I've been in Joplin 9 years and 5 days. Where are the other cities that you managed? Newton Falls, Ohio; Washington Courthouse, Ohio; Ponca Gordo, Florida; Piqua, Ohio; and Joplin, Missouri. First Missouri municipal corporation job? Uh-huh. That was a yes for the record? Yes.
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Page 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Did you have formalized training as a City Manager? Yeah, I've got a Master's Degree in Public Administration, did an internship in the first city that I worked for, then I was the City Manager at the ripe old age of 27 so, yes, I got some, but I learned a lot on the job, too. What school did you go to? I went to Miami University in Oxford, Ohio for undergrad, and Xavier University in Cincinnati, Ohio for my Master's Degree. That includes ethics and legal backgrounds? Yes, sir. When I asked you earlier if you had legal training to the extent that legal overlaps on city government I suppose you're aware of when an attorney should be involved? Sure, I had a one hour ethics class, ironically enough, with a textbook written by a guy named Rohr in my Master's program. He wasn't related, I hope? No, it's one of the most helpful classes I ever had because he got you to see things from the outside looking in and how it would
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Page 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. appear in public and a firm belief that what comes out eventually needs to come out immediately. I have been advised that there has been some effort to discipline you in the near past here. What was that all about?
Well, it stemmed from the Public Works investigation, and my own opinion is that there were agendas at play, and that was an opportunity to play out some of those agendas. I had to step in and correct the
Public Works situation, and Mr. Hertzberg is a fine man, a really good man, worked for the City for over 30 years, but was challenged in his current position, and I had to reassign him as a result of it. And the whole effort
that you're referring to came as a result of that. What was the nature of the charge that was brought against you? It really wasn't clearly stated. I remember
hearing Dr. Rosenberg saying in the paper that he thought I was bullying employees. I saw some statement about bullying. And I just thought it was interesting that
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Page 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. I'd been here eight and a half years at the time and that's the first time that ever came up. And I think there's a fine line between
enacting discipline when it has to be enacted even though it's distasteful and a charge like that. Have you had any complaints against you with the Human Rights Commission as an officer? Never. Any sexual misconducts or anything? No, sir. Have you had any domestic issues that are public? There was an inadvertent 911 call late last year at my house by my stepdaughter, but that was erroneous. It was a miscommunication and
it was an embarrassing situation altogether, but it was investigated by Council and the Police Department and found not to have any merit. Both the Police Department and the City Council? The Police Department did when they were there, and they talked to the people that were involved and said, no, nothing happened
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Page 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. here, it was just a mess. Communication problem with you and your daughter? Well, yeah, yeah. And then Council had a
closed session in which that was discussed, and the Police Chief was in there, and he made what had happened that it was found to be without merit. Is there a police report on that? There probably is. There's a file that's
been requested by community activists, the Globe, and another citizen in the community, and nothing has ever come of it because there's nothing to come of it. Have you personally seen that report? No. Who has that report? The Police Department would have it. I
wasn't part of the investigation either, but I know how things work around here. Well, the discipline issue has come up so I mean there's no -How is that related to - I don't understand how it's related to the other stuff. Well, I mean anything is related that it's
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Page 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. fit for conduct. If you're fit for your
office it can get into health issues and everything, you know. But I'm not the subject of the investigation. I'm just wondering how someone else brings that up to your attention. Maybe it just developed here in discussion, but the simple matter is I've just been advised that the City Council has brought some charges and I want to know the nature -It wasn't really charges, it was something that was discussed. Did they file official papers on you? Who is that? The City. No, not that I know. -Do you have a procedure around here for complaints, you know, for investigating employee discipline and things? I believe the Police Department has a procedure. Not the City itself? There may be. I don't know. I don't get too There's a file because
involved in that aspect of things.
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Page 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Who is your H.R. person? Dave Allgood. Has he been here for awhile? No, he hasn't. He's only been here for
approximately a year now. Dave Allgood. Sort of like a lawyer's name, I think
beat them and cheat them, you know.
I'd change my name. I used to know a lawyer named Tom Beetamine and his friend was Charlie Cheatham. Beat em and cheat em.
Why would you become a lawyer with that name? Find a different partner. For sure. When things like this are brought
up I would think there would be a policy that would be clear and concise, due process ought to be involved. There is. Name clearing hearings. Council in the past I think that's the big source of problems in the nine years I've been here, what is the role of Mayor as it relates to the City as a whole, what is the role of Mayor as it relates to Council, and how does Council police itself. There was a
situation about five years ago when they had
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Page 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. to remove a Council member for violating charter. You're a charter? Right, and that's one of the concerns that they were asked from my recollection to look into was Mr. Scearce making some phone calls involving himself in the administration as opposed to his role as legislative. Have any of those issues come - I mean there are going to be recommendations I make in this thing and it doesn't seem like the process is very well defined to me. No, it isn't. You're very right. And I
thought that was one of the things that Council brought up, that's what I remember hearing is some of his calls related to bonding issues with our legal counsel in the bonding authority where he in my mind was working in the administrative realm. He being? Mr. Scearce. The charter is very specific
about the administration of the City is under the sole authority of the City Manager. That's the fundamental premise of the form of government is to remove politics from it.
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Page 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. What chapter do you think that is in in the charter? I don't remember chapter and verse. Could you get me - one of the things I'd like you to make a note on is get me -Sure. You can use that pen. I'm interested to know
what part of the charter deals with your authorities and the Council's and the Mayor's. Sure. What I'm hearing so far is confusing. That's where we get in trouble in Joplin. I've been here nine years, I don't think I know everything, but I've got a pretty good resource base to reflect on, but we don't stay in our lanes very well. We converge
into other people's lanes and that's where we have problems. And as you recognize it you don't have rules and procedures to deal with the convergence of lanes and we've got to hire investigators to come in and clean it up. It costs money and there's headaches and problems.
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Page 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Yes. He? Mr. Scearce is perfectly entitled to ask any question that he wants at a point in time that an issue is advanced to Council, and if he's not ready to vote on anything or he wants to make a thousand phone calls at that point he's perfectly entitled to that. In my And he'll tell you --
mind he is not entitled to make phone calls that interrupt the administrative flow we're developing the information to present to them. Micromanaging of some sort? Yes, sir. Anybody else on the board doing that? No, not that I'm aware of. And that was one
of the things that was mentioned that night was his call to a lady named Laura who is involved in our bond counsel, asking her questions and she's like, you're who? this about? What's her name? Laura - I'll have to get that to you. She's What's
with a company that helps us bring out bond issues.
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Page 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. Q. A. Legal counsel or just bond counsel? I think she's got a legal background, but works for a finance company. Would you make a note to yourself to give me her name and phone number or something? Where is she out of? They are out of I believe K.C. Do you remember what company that is? Sterner or something? I should know, but I've got tornado on the brain. If you don't mind giving me that information. A. Sure. That's what creates problems and Is it
that's why the charter is so definitive about this is what you do and this is what you do. Where you get into problems is where they overlap. There aren't a whole lot of city charters in Missouri. I know Hannibal is one and it caused problems up there, but I don't know, a big city obviously, but there are not a lot of little cities that are charters. unique. Yeah. And I think you're right, there's got to be It is
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Page 63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. some clarifications. and see where I'm at. Stifel Nicholas I think is her -Okay, I know that one. And that name was? Let me review my notes
Laura, I want to say Delano, but I'm not a hundred percent sure. I'm going to let you get that information back to me. I will. Delano, what do you think? D-E-L-A-N-O, I think it is. I'm going to put a question mark. I wouldn't bet my life on the last name. I don't think she will be a lawyer. I mean
she's not acting as bond counsel as a lawyer, but she's probably putting the bonds and stuff together. Her main function is finance. Someone does the legal portion of that bond, I don't know who it is, probably some big Kansas City firm. But, yes, that would be
disconcerting, I suppose. And the only reason I brought it up I thought that was one of the things that was mentioned at the meeting that the investigator was
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Page 64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. supposed to look into. Didn't say that in my contract, but I think that -How about the KOAM? The what? KOAM. What's that? That's a local news station. brought up, too. Somebody from a local news station and somebody from - it wasn't Carol, but somebody called asking what I was doing. Well, that had to do with Mr. Scearce. There's an unwritten rule of Council that once a majority makes a decision that the minority accepts that decision and moves on and it's business as usual. And in that That was
instance there were allegations made that the day after a vote was taken on a contract where he was in the minority opinion that he initiated, according to them, a contact with KOAM to continue to keep that issue alive. Protesting the decision -What's the name of that? KOAM, it's a local TV station.
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Page 65 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. And what was the name of the contractor? Wallace-Bajjali. project. What was the allegation? It was the senior housing project, and Council had voted on the night before. believe - I believe Mr. Scearce was descending a vote, alone descending a vote. And I heard more than one person make the allegation that after that he called them, initiated the contact, getting them, prompting them to investigate into the situation deeper even after the vote was cast, which is more - it's nothing illegal, it would be more of an ethical issue as it relates from Council to Council. I guess the City Council as such are elected? A. Yes, sir. And I It was a Wallace-Bajjali
So you get into - I had a similar situation one time in St. Charles where a guy was just calling cops donut eaters. I mean, just -
and it was part of the local newspaper and he was an elected official. And if he had
worked for the city he probably would have been discharged from his duties, but, you
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Page 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. know, he was an elected councilman. guys have a lot of freedom of speech. Yeah, I'm not saying he did anything illegal, it was more of an ethical thing as it relates to Council's business. I thought it was one Those
of the things that was supposed to be investigated. Well, I didn't see that, but I did hear something about a senior housing project. What I remember was -That's still going on, isn't it? Yeah. What I remember is the Woolston thing
about property, there was the Scearce and the bookie, there was the post-it note, there was KOAM, and then there was a call interfering with administration. Last two didn't get to me, but that doesn't mean, you know, we won't pursue them. here. I'm pretty sure that was mentioned on Council floor. Let me get those. Laura Delano. Okay. Involving himself in administration. You What was the other one? I'm
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Page 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. don't necessarily have to repeat the source because I'm sure that will come back on me if you do. Well, I mean I do this - I have to do this in writing. That's what that is. transcript. What I'm saying is that I remember those things being talked about on Council floor. Well, you can't be held accountable for truth, can you? You should be held accountable for the truth. Q. Well, I mean if you say the truth you should That's a
be okay? Should be. Yeah, that's the theory on it. A. Who is Costa?
Costa Bajjali is one of the principles of
Wallace-Bajjali. That's with Bajjali, okay. Can you think of
any names of anybody that I should talk to other than what we've discussed, including these last two issues, that you think I need to talk to to do my job properly here? I don't know who is on your list. I mean just give me some names that you think and I'll decide whether or not they're on -
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Page 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. you know, I've got names already, but anybody that's just central to this investigation? Maybe some people from Wallace-Bajjali. Box, have you got him on your list? What's his name? Gary Box, B-O-X. Gary Box, okay. Works for Wallace-Bajjali. local office. Will he come? I mean I don't have authority He's in their Gary
to talk to people that aren't out of the city. I don't know. He knows a lot about the
history of the city and he knows a lot about what is going on now. he knows. I don't know what all
I'm not doing it to throw him
under the bus. No, it's not a matter. I mean he either will
talk to me or he won't, but if there is some - I mean he may have names that I need to know about, so yeah, Gary Box. Do you have a
phone number for Wallace-Bajjali? No, I can get that for you. Would you mark that down? Yeah. Can I get a copy of that? I'm getting
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Page 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. all these things for you. copy of that some time? Sure. Absolutely. There is supposedly a Can I just get a
phone that the City has given me, I don't know where the heck it is, but if everything else fails you can call my office in Osage Beach and you can get hold of me. I understand you had to ask questions about the content - we didn't talk a whole lot about my office which is secured. We're going to talk some more about it. I'm
not done yet, but thank you for reminding me. Is there anybody else that you think I should talk to? Obviously it goes without
saying any of the people on your list that you've given me are people I probably need to talk with. Well, some of those people - I mean I don't know how it all happened. Some of those
people I think are extremely or would not be capable of participating in that. Who would be? Put check marks.
Can I go off the record? No, you sure can't. If you don't want me to If you
talk to somebody don't give it to me.
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Page 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. do want me to talk to somebody -I mean there's only one name on there that I would even think it would be possible. don't have any knowledge that they did. I understand that, but I mean if it's somebody I ought to look at. But if it's written down I'm going to pay hell for that later on if it doesn't prove true. You can't withhold the information from me so you don't want to do that. Well, I don't know, it's just -I understand. Those are people that you I
think might have -No, I think most everyone there would not be capable of that as a person. There might be
a name or two that might be, but I don't have any indication that they did. idea. Other than the people on this list any names? A. I've got theories, but I don't -I have no
Do you want to give me your theories so I can investigate them? I don't want to do it on record. That's the only way I can do it. I can't
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Page 71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. investigate something that I don't know about. It's only intuition. I don't have any proof
and I don't want to go on record saying, yeah, why don't you talk to this person if I don't have any proof. Let me tell you something, other people will tell me people to talk to so that's the way it goes. The City only knows what the
employees know. One is a local newspaper reporter. talk to you. Who? Debbie Woodin. Oh, yeah, Woodin. She may not want to talk because Carol is not talking so I don't know. These are just She may
names off the top of my head. Sure, anybody that could help me. Are you going to talk to all the Council members? I probably will. Yeah, I probably will.
Probably talk to some Mayors, too. Well, all of the four Mayors are still on Council.
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Page 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Yeah, I've covered that. I'm trying to think who else might have something to say. I've got a phone number for tips, but nobody has called. No one has called? No. Well, one did. One called.
We were thinking there would be a lot of them. You would think there would be. think so. You would
Maybe we're too early into the Maybe there needs to be I don't know.
investigation.
another newspaper article.
I think you can advance that cause when you talk to Debbie if you get a chance to. I will follow-up on that, I promise you. Anything else that you think that's crying out that says this person ought to be at least interviewed? You don't have to tell me
the reason why you think they have to be interviewed right now, I'm not asking for that, but anybody else you think I need to talk with? Not that I can think of. And if you come across a name --
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Page 73 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. What's your hotline number, do you know? No, I don't know what it is, but if you want to have your wife call that number that's fine with me. I don't care who calls in,
just so I get names that I need to look at I will follow-up every name. to. I think I have
What I see here is two sides pointing
fingers at each other and people like you and the City Attorney and maybe Wallace-Bajjali, those kind of people are going to get caught in the middle of this and that's the way it goes. They need to defend themselves I guess So I've asked you Anything else if you Now let's talk about You
is what it boils down to. the catch-all question. come across something.
was there another note other than this?
made some kind of suggestion that Exhibit #1, this is your note, but was there any other information that you're aware of that was missing? Not that I know of. I knew there was a note
and the only thing that I knew of was based on what comments he made at his press conference. You're talking about Scearce?
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Page 74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. A. Q. Q. A. Yeah, and I'm not aware of how he got that so I assume that is the note he's referring to. Do I know that without a shadow of a doubt? I don't know. No, but you do know this is your handwriting and this was a note that you created? Yes. Was there another note, you don't know, I don't know. you this. Well, I will say, too, the charges, the three cases of the three bookmakers had been covered at nauseum in the local paper and had been disposed of. secret information. It wasn't like it was It had been covered on Maybe there is one. Let me ask
numerous occasions in the paper and was public knowledge so that name on there wasn't anything that was new, it was in the public domain, it had been talked about. Lovett? Yeah. And Carol Stark? Lyle, yeah. So there's nothing secretive or
revealing about that, you know, it was all stuff that was in the public record. What I
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Page 75 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. think is the issue is how the heck did it end up in his hands. That would be one issue. Anything else about
this security breach issue? My doors are locked most every time I'm out of the office. There might be an instance
where I might be in the second floor conference room, which is right down the hall from my office, where the door may be ajar, but in most every instance my secretary is there. Who is your secretary? Vicki Coots, C-O-O-T-S. Does Ms. Coots have any information for me? I think she probably told me if she did because we talked about after this issue came up I asked her how all this happened. Should I ask her under oath? the difference, you know. I mean you can. Well, I mean -She's scrupulously honest so it's up to you, but if she knew something I think I'd know it. Okay. Anybody else that works closely with Maybe that's
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Page 76 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. you that I need to talk to that may have been a source of all these problems? I think I would have known something. Okay. I'm getting a couple of more articles Is it the only paper
from the Joplin Globe. in town?
Yes, and those articles will help you round out the picture. I think they're important. Once
Now you've got some notes on there.
again I'm admonishing not to talk to anybody about my investigation, but if you come up with additional information such as the things I've asked you to do feel free to get that to me. I'll get you what you asked for. This all started at a budget work meeting? It did. It had been building for awhile.
That's where the prospect of an investigation was. That's where they brought it up? Yes. And that was an open meeting? Yes. Were you aware that was going to happen at that meeting, or was it a surprise to you,
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Page 77 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. too? It had been building for awhile and there had been talk about it. I didn't know exactly
what was going to happen, when it was going to happen, what was going to happen. I
wasn't extremely surprised because it was part of the behinds the scene talk. Is there any of the rumors that I need to investigate that some of the sources you were aware proving matters? I mean is there
anybody like that I need to talk with? No, I mean this goes back five years so it's been building varying degrees over a five year period. And I think the Police Chief
will tell you that he's a little frustrated. I mean we still don't have any information from the FBI. Is there information? it you're relying -I've not seen it. You haven't seen it? No. You're relying on Lane Roberts? Right, and what I've heard is in the file. I've not seen the file. I haven't seen I mean as I understand
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Page 78 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. anything. So Mr. Roberts need to be forthcoming. I
mean a lot of stuff, he's got the basis for a lot of information here. We sure want to see
it or hear it so that will be important so I'll be chatting with him. Has there been
any investigations or complaints about the City Police Chief that I need to be aware of or anything of that nature? Absolutely nothing. cowboy. him. He's like the last
Maybe you'll agree after you talk to
I've never had a problem with him.
And apparently nobody really has as far as I understand? I don't think so. I'm not aware of any.
There have been no internal problems with the Police Department that are -No, there wasn't. There was before he came,
but he got it all -That's what I'm saying. I mean if there's
some kind of rumblings like that it goes to the Police Chief? Yeah. No, I'm not aware of any.
I have a note that you gave me that this article says that Scearce says he knew about
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Page 79 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. the booking rental before the arrest, but not at the time of the original rental. That's
the nuance you think that he's trying to make? My take on that is he's trying to create -His prior statement that he didn't have any knowledge? Yes, that's what I believe, yes. Have you guys ever done an impeachment of anybody around? Yes, sir. This that I referred to about five
or six years ago was an outgoing Mayor and then a Council member that was removed for violating the charter. Who were those people? The Council member at that point was a guy named Jon Tupper, J-O-N T-U-P-P-E-R, but he
was removed by Council including Mr. Scearce and Dr. Rosenberg and probably most of the people, not all the people, up there. Seibert took his place. What was the charge against him? He was very specific. charter. It was violating the Mr.
They are not allowed to tell any
City employee what to do.
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Page 80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. There had to be more to it than that. Micromanaging or -There was a whole investigation and a trial, if you will, on Council floor where -Who was the lawyer that brought that? Brian. Brian Head.
So we actually had formal charges and we had a hearing? A hearing, the whole works. Now that's an impeachment? Yes, sir. So we had one involving that Council member. What was the other one on, a Mayor? No, he was the outgoing Mayor who became a Council member. You said there was another one? No, there may have been some in the past. That's the only one in my experience. And you do have formal rules for what the percentage of vote is and all that? Yeah. I assume that Council will get some kind of recommendations made, and I don't know what they're going to do with them or who is going
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Page 81 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. to do it, but we have had some experience with that down here? Yes, sir. anyone. Okay. There was some comment that Scearce And Brian would know as much as
talked to you I guess directly concerning your relationship with David Wallace. that all about? What's
Do you recall something? I think
Yeah, I mean numerous conversations. he thought that maybe I was partial to
Wallace-Bajjali more so than I should be. Why would he think that? You'd have to ask him. I will. I don't know. I'm the liaison between the
City and Wallace-Bajjali and I see the benefit of the projects proposed by Wallace-Bajjali going forward. There are
other people that seem very cynical towards Wallace-Bajjali. I don't see anything but
down side for the City as a whole if we don't advance the projects and don't understand that attitude. So if that makes me if I'm
considered partial because of that then I guess I'm guilty as charged, but I don't
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Page 82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. think I am. I know where my checks come I just think
from, where my allegiance lies.
it's important for the City for the projects they proposed to advance. Is that because you're certainly not getting any kick back or anything like that? I don't benefit one iota if the projects go forward or they don't. Nothing. Zero. As a
matter of fact one would argue that it would work against me if they didn't go forth. I
mean they could somehow imply or state that I was an impediment or reason why a project didn't advance so I'm not really directly affected one way or the other and probably would be more so if projects didn't advance because I might get blamed for not advancing or contributing to not advancing. Who comes up with the concept of the projects? Some of them were things they heard about that we had proposed in the past. Bajjali? Wallace-Bajjali, yes. Some of them are new It was kind of a
projects that they thought. mixture of both.
And it was a total of 18 or
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Page 83 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. 19 projects totaling about 800 million dollars which they advanced and presented to Council and Council approved. And that was
the basis for the contract between the City and Wallace-Bajjali. We're talking about some 800 million dollars worth of work? Sure. That's not money to Wallace-Bajjali, that's total dollars of the projects? Investment dollars. Yes, and so Wallace-Bajjali probably gets 3 or 5 percent or something like that? Probably it's stipulated I think it's 5 3/4 percent plus. So on 800 million we're looking at, what, 4 million or something? 40. 40 million. That's a lot of money.
Yeah, but I've heard allegations made that they're only interested in the sale of the property and to me that doesn't make sense because the true money that they would glean from the process would be once the projects are advanced because they get the 5 3/4 of
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Page 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. the total value of the project. On the front JRC is
end they're buying the property back.
buying the property from people that own it to put it together. It's now held by the JRC And then
which is a City committee.
Wallace-Bajjali or some other developer would buy that from them at cost. They get a
commission, they get a 5 3/4 off the sale commission of the property, but that's just a little drip in the bucket compared to the 5 3/4 from 800 million. things I -That's the total dollar investment if all these things come to fruition? Yeah. That's where the real money is? Sure. And sitting here it's probably safe to And that's one of the
assume they all won't occur, but I mean that's the ideal that you shoot for. Yeah. And that's where the big money comes from for them because they get a commission on the value of the overall projects that do move forward. And you've looked at that contract?
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Page 85 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Yeah, Brian and I helped negotiate it. mean they wanted 6 percent. I
I'm the one that
got it down to 5 1/2, and then it went back up to 5 3/4 because Council wanted some other stipulations. Brian and I are the ones that He
played most of the role in developing it.
hadn't the sticking points, but Brian handled the legalese with their attorney and that's how it all came to be. What are sticking points? Like, you know, like buyout for the overall contract. Like percentage of revenue that You know,
they would glean from the process. big points, not the legalese.
Did Brian assist in that stuff, in the concepts? Sure, sure. I mean I was probably on point
on the sticking points, but I involved him negotiating on the City's behalf to get his perspective to go back to David on. So in other words when you say you're on lead what you're talking about is there a provision, for example, to dismiss? Yes, but we'd have to pay a penalty. remember what it is offhand. I don't
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Page 86 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. But there is? Yes, sir. That was looked at and dealt with? Yes, that was one of what I call sticking points. Sticking points. Big issues. There's got to be a way to get rid of them. Sure. Obviously it's costly to get rid of them? Yes, sir. But it wouldn't be as costly as going through the project with somebody that's not doing the job? Right. I mean no one wants failure. And there's criticism by some people about how long it's taken them to get started. I
think it's just the nature and complexity of the funding because it was the CBG and what I referred to before, some of those things. I
don't think it's that they're trying to pull something because they make the bulk of their money if the projects advance. Why would
they be here spending all this time coming up
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Page 87 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. here and enduring all the headaches just to sell some property? in Texas. You could do that down
The benefit is when the projects
actually happen. Could you be able to give me a list of - I mean I don't know if you can do it as we're sitting here, but could you give me a list of what you thought were point problems that you took the lead in solving? and maybe give me a list? you call it. Yeah, it was the percentage of revenue for them. There was the buyout clause. There Can you sit down Sticking points as
are like three or four of them that I remember, maybe five. I don't remember what
they are off the top of my head. When you give me this other stuff can you give me -Yeah, I'd have to look it up. it off the top of my head. I don't know
I've got a stack
about this deep (indicating). I don't want to see the stack, but I'd like to see what the sticking points were. Sure. And I assume, you know, I'm assuming that
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Page 88 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. these are things you think you did a good job on behalf of the City? Yeah. I ought to know that, don't you think? I mean I guess if you subscribe to the thought that there's some kind of scam going on here you would, but I -Whether I subscribe to that or not somebody obviously must think something because there's somebody that's hacking at Wallace-Bajjali. Sure, you as an investigator need to have that. That's what I'm thinking. I personally think that I'd be very surprised. I guess I won't know until the
report comes out. Well, if you wouldn't mind that that would be helpful to me. Yeah. So do you want to mark that one down? Sure. I think that is something that needs to be discussed. And by the same - I'll let you
take your note down.
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Page 89 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. I'm listening. I can multi-task. Most
I don't want you to have to do that.
males don't seem to be able to do that. I dealt with an EF-5 tornado so anything else pales in comparison. That's a big number. Well, it is when a part of your town is destroyed. I did not see that except on the TV broadcast and stuff. I didn't think you guys needed a
lawyer roaming around down here so I didn't come down. But let me ask are there any
problems that you've not been able to work through on this Wallace-Bajjali? There's constantly problems. I'm sure. But I mean is there stumbling
points that you're saying now, gee, I wish I wouldn't have gotten these guys because here is -I haven't said that, but -Somebody has. Yeah, but here is the way I see it. It's
David Wallace came in and said we could get all these projects done and here's what they're valued at. He is a very articulate
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Page 90 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. guy and he presented his case very well. I've been in similar situations where you got presented to sell as concept, but the devil is in the details and when you get down into those details it's a little bit more complicated than just selling from the 10,000 foot, that you've got to figure out how each one of these financing mechanisms work. Especially if they're from the Federal Government to make sure we won't end up in stripes and how it all fits together and then it flows after that, and I think that's what I recognize and appreciate because I'm fundamentally a part of that process where others are saying where's the bricks and mortar. I think that's the I issue. Was
there salesmanship from what David presented? Of course there was. But I think there was
also substance there and that's what we're flushing out. That's the way I see it. If
there's anything inappropriate or illegal I'm not aware of it and I would be very surprised. These guys, I assume you've looked at their resume and they're for real and they've done
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Page 91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. this stuff other places? As a matter of fact there's a group called CART, Citizens Action Recovery Team, it's a group of private citizens that help the city develop the recovery plan after a disaster. I was part of that in addition to being City Manager and I was one of the ones that helped do the phone due diligence on Wallace-Bajjali, and we actually had people that went and actually visited some of their projects to do the in field inspections including Trisha Rainey who is a Council member and including a whole team of people. During that process I found some things that at face value were of concern and did the research myself and made calls to other city managers in Texas and other people and got the low down on what those concerns were and presented them at a Council meeting, because I'm a firm believer that what comes out eventually needs to come out immediately so I was proactive. There is an SEC issue that
they have where they were fined by the SEC that I presented to Council and said this is what happened and this is what I found out
Mark Rohr
In Re:
Page 92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. were the circumstances behind that so they knew that about that particular situation and some other concerns before they voted because that's how we presented it. Do we have Council records on that? Sure. Do you have such a document? The City Clerk would, Barbara Hogelin. Would you be able to give me what to request from Barbara Hogelin? It would be minutes from - I would ask her any minutes from Council meetings where Wallace-Bajjali made a presentation from the get go. And what year would this be about? Probably would be -Some five years? Probably would be late '11 would probably the earliest. Probably after that through current date. Would there be a lot of these records? I
mean there must be some because people -Five or six at least, if not more. no less than five. Probably
Maybe ten at the most. That's her job.
But that's what she does.
Mark Rohr
In Re:
Page 93 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. I'll be talking to her anyway so I will try to go through that. talk about here? You've picked my brain clean. If we go back and talk to your prior employees have you got any ghosts back there I need to be aware of or anything sort of like you just said? No. Nothing I've got to worry about? Never been fired. Nothing at all. Anything else we need to
No convictions I am assuming? I had a traffic ticket probably eleven years ago. That's the last time I had any issue.
I mean I have to ask this question. I understand. And you've got the truth. I
told you the truth. I think I've covered everything for right now. You and I may want to converse more. I
don't have Xerox capabilities, but how about if I give you a blank one of those so you know what you signed and later I'll give you a copy of the one that you signed. This is a
blank one so at least you can reread that and as soon as I get a chance I will make a copy
Mark Rohr
In Re:
Page 94 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED) A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. of it. And the only concern was I had been told that I couldn't say anything about the specifics of the file and that's the only thing I was concerned about. That was my only - I wasn't
trying to be difficult, it was just I didn't want to create another problem. And I didn't want to cause you any problem, I just wanted to let you know I'm hired to do a job. I understand. Thank you very much for your courtesies. Thank you. I appreciate it. Hopefully we'll talk a
little bit again some time.
Mark Rohr
In Re:
Page 95
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
STATE OF MISSOURI ss. COUNTY OF JASPER
I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the 5th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was examined. That examination was then taken by me by
steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith returned. I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of either party or of the attorney of either party, or otherwise interested in the event of this suit.
________________________ SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

Rohr, Mark - Investigation Testimony

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Rohr, Mark - Investigation Testimony

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Transcript of the Testimony of Mark Rohr

Date: November 5, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: November 13, 2013

Joplin Critical Investigation

JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE

Exhibit #12 Memo

Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

the Garrity investigation and it reads as follows: "Advice of Rights. I wish to

if you refuse to testify or to answer questions relating to the performance of your

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

Is this the document that you

Sir, would you explain what this

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

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is I've not seen the note.

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

And I'm going to ask you to I mean I think I can

translate this for me.

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Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. read it. I obviously see the name Stark, but

what I have number is 8 lines.

what it was referencing. Publisher of the paper.

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

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Joplin Critical Investigation

been Lovett, it may have been Lyle. remember specifically.

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

What I understand it's a legal

I'm not expert.

They made a public records

That was the gist of the

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

All I know is that he was

apprising me -Let me explain something to you. What we're

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

Joplin Critical Investigation

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078