Ravsolovetichikyomhaatzmaut

Section II Hallel on Yom HaAtzmaut
195
Introduction to Section II

On Yom HaAtzmaut, 1978, hallel was said during
shacharis in the Morgenstern dormitory. That day,
prior to beginning his daily shiur, the Rav had a
discussion with his talmidim in which he addressed
his objections to hallel as it was said that day.

This off-the-cuff discussion is presented in its
entirety in order to give a fascinating insight into
the Ravs personal views, not only regarding
reciting hallel, but on a host of topics relating to
Eretz Yisrael. Although the Rav often asked me not
to record certain informal discussions, in this
instance he fortunately did allow it.

As elsewhere in this book, questions and comments
from various students in the class are indicated in
italics. The headings in bold font have been added
to make it easier to find particular topics.


196
Hallel on Yom HaAtzmaut

I want to say something. The fact that I walked out
today when I saw them taking out the sefer Torah
and haftorah from neviim, I want you to know [that
it] should not be interpreted in any political terms.
The prestige of the Bnei Akiva has not been affected
at all.
1
But usually I cannot do things which,
bmechilas kavodchem, smell of am haaretzus [audience
laughter]. I cannot. It is my instinctive reaction. And
to read a haftorah today is so absurd.

To say hallel today with a brachah, they shouldnt
have done it. As a matter of fact, Ill ask [the person
who was shliach tzibur; name deleted] where is he?
to leave the brachah out. Ill tell you, had he left the
brachah out, I would have said hallel with them. But
since he said a brachah, I didnt say hallel at all. I just
answered :::n n: ' :: c::v: ::on because its a davar
shebkedushah, but otherwise I did not say hallel.

Because there is a gemara. I cant put away the
gemara. :: ::xn ::n ::: c:: is forbidden.
2
It would
appear from Rashi in Shabbos, in :: ::n: , that the
heter of saying hallel is based on takanas haneviim.
3
I
dont believe there is voluntary saying of hallel. To

1
Religious-Zionist youth movement, founded in 1929.
2
n:c n:; :
3
n:c n:; : : " n " :n n: ;n: ;:::: "

197
such an extent, you see, on Pesach, hallel is only
recited for one day, according to the Rambam.
4

Saying half-hallel is only a minhag according to the
Rambam.
5
Because the kedushas hayom of all seven
days of Pesach is uniform in contrast to Sukkos,
where each day has a separate kedushas hayom,
because the musafim change, Pesach has only one
kedushas hayom one hallel is enough. I could ask
Chazal Why not, why be so stingy? Apparently
you dont say hallel unless you have to. I cant help
it.

Hallel Without a Brachah

When you say it still without a brachah, so you say it
in a voluntary manner. And it might be [that even
though the x:: writes] " :: ::xn ::n ::: c:: ;:x :: ;:n
c::v: x:n ",
6
the [term] :: [there] means [it is a
problem only] if I say it btoras chiyuv, but if I say it
voluntarily, its like reading hallel, like someone

4
n:::n : : :
5
n:::n : : :
6
It appears that the Rav was quoting the aforementioned gemara in
shabbos, which reads: x:;n ::n ::: c:: - :n n: ;n: ;:::: . It appears from
later in the discussion that the Rav meant that a ;n: ;:::: loses his share
in olam habaah, as he says later Thats what you see from chazal. :: ::xn
::n ::: c:: ;:x :: ;:n c::v: x:n . Apparently they addressed themselves to
certain events: some people used to say hallel bchol yom. Why should
Chazal say bchlal [at all] ;n: ;:::: ?. See for instance x:: xn: :o : where
the two are linked:
x::n :;n " n :::v ;::o: ::nnn ;n: ;:::: ::: :: :;n " n ::c n:v: " : ] ::: [ ::o: ;:
c::vn x:n

198
who recites tehillim the whole day can say the hallel
the whole day [and therefore be permitted].
7
Some
people say part of tehillim every day. I knew people
who used to say almost the whole of tehillim every
day. So when they come to hallel, to :::n :::v n ' ,
8

what do they do? They say it. This is not meant by
the gemara, :: ::xn ::n ::: c:: . Hallel bchol yom
means if he says it btoras tzivui, as a mandatory
performance, or at least he gives the impression that
he says it btoras tzivui.

If there is no brachah, [then] the hallel is not recited
btoras chiyuv, so I say it. But when there is a brachah,
" cx ::c:; ::n:s:: :::s: x:;: nx ::nn ", and the shliach
tzibur said it on behalf of the kahal, so I didnt say
the hallel at all because then my recital of the hallel
would be associated with the brachah. [It] could be I
recited hallel not btoras kriah bkesuvim, but btoras
mitzvas hallel. And there is no takanah today, and if
there is no takanah, there is no hallel.

Permitted Method if the Tzibur Wants to Say
Hallel

That is why I did not say hallel today, even though
when I daven in a minyan on yom haatzmaut I do say

7
;:: cn:x ::;n : x
8
c:::nn ::;

199
hallel with the kahal.
9
I just ask the shliach tzibur to
say the kaddish with tiskabel right after shemoneh
esrei, and then say hallel. Because the halachah that
the kaddish with tiskabel is postponed until after
hallel is because the takanas hallel is that the rishon
[i.e., the n::c :::s of n:nc] is koray ess hahallel.
Hallel should be recited by the first shliach tzibur.
The very moment the shliach tzibur says ::;nn
;:nn::s ;:nn:v:: ::: n:: :xc: his job is finished, he is
uprooted, so its not the rishon. I am makpid to
change shliach tziburs for hallel [on Yom HaAtzmaut].

One Shliach Tzibur for Shemoneh Esrei + Hallel

You know in the shuls in America, a Jew with a nice
voice has an instinct to show off that he can say
hallel. So they tell the shliach tzibur to stop. This is a
problem, whether its not against the takanah of
harishon omer ess hahallel. The takanah doesnt say
the rishon says shachris, [and then] omrim hallel
bshachris.
10
No. It says ;:cxn :x nx ::nn .
11
Who is
the rishon? The shliach tzibur. The same shliach tzibur
who says shemoneh esrei should also say hallel. I am
makpid, I dont let [them change during the rest of

9
i.e., the Rav would say hallel if the tzibur used the following method, as
opposed to the scenario he described previously, which he did not
approve of.
10
If it was written this way it would imply the hallel is connected to
shachris, not to the shliach tzibur rishon in particular.
11
The Rav is probably referring to the n:c: cx n:cn : : : which reads:
" nvc:: ::nn ;:cx x;: nx ::nn "

200
the year], because usually they change the shliach
tzibur for reasons of vanity, nothing else. Vanity,
because one wants to show off his chazanus, his
control of vocals.

Some I noticed [change the shliach tzibur] because
they let the avel [mourner] daven until hallel, and at
hallel they remove him from the amud. That I still
understood, it makes sense, because the avel does
not want to lose the shemoneh esrei, the chazaras
hashatz, so he recites shemoneh esrei and birchas krias
shema, but hallel since hallel is indicative of the
kedushas hayom so [they] remove him. All right.
But I am makpid that the same shliach tzibur recite
shemoneh esrei and the hallel [provided, of course,
that it is not Yom HaAtzmaut on Yom HaAtzmaut
the Rav would probably prefer that they change
shliach tziburs].

But anyway, no tiskabel [before hallel during the rest
of the year]. The very moment you say the kaddish
before hallel, then this hallel does not belong in
;:nn::s ;:nn:v:: .
12
Hallel is a separate halachah of
shevach, but you postpone the tiskabel until after
hallel in order to make it one unit, to integrate hallel
into shemoneh esrei, that hallel be recited by the same
shliach tzibur.

12
i.e. then the hallel will not be part of shacharis, since the kaddish tiskabel
ended the shacharis already.

201
Hallel on Yom HaAtzmaut, continued

On yom haatzmaut you want a half-hallel, a whole
hallel, I dont care, Im not stingy, I have enough
time but say the tiskabel. The very moment you
say tiskabel first, [then] when you begin to say hallel
it is hallel of reshus. Reshus is kkoreh bkesuvim [just
learning or reading passages from :n " ; , and not a
mitzvah of hallel at all].

But all right, if you dont want to listen to me, and
you want to postpone the kaddish. Even though they
are not aware of the whole business, but they sense,
they heard, that its much better to say tiskabel
afterwards, so theyll always consider it somehow
offensive to say hallel after tiskabel. I dont care about
it. But the very moment you say a brachah, you
declare publicly! that the hallel is recited not as
kriah bkesuvim btoras reshus, but as toras chova: cx
::c:; ::n:s:: :::s: x:;: nx ::nn . Thats why I didnt
say the hallel today.

Haftorah

I dont agree with those who think that not saying
hallel diminishes, so to say, the stature of Yom
Haatzmaut. You can be a good Bnei Akiva member
and not say hallel. One can be a bad Bnei Akiva
member and say hallel with a brachah. Its not

202
indicative. But still hallel I can understand. I can
understand the pull. I have my opinions, someone
else has theirs. Good. But haftorah? Its outright
out of the Arabian Nights. [audience laughter].
Really! What do you need haftorah? What haftorah?

First of all there is a klal: " ::x c:: c:c :: ::o:: n:x::
c::o:: x:::: ".
13
But on yom haatzmaut its not
prohibited [to do] melachah [so] ain maftirim bnavi.
This is the halachah. The only exception is tisha bav,
tisha bav and taanis. The Rambam didnt [even]
know of the haftorah of taanis tzibur bmincha.
14
In
the morning there is certainly no haftorah. Only tisha
bav, its the only exception to the rule. These yomim
shain bo issur melachah there are certain haftoros
tiknu. Tisha bav has a haftorah in the morning, a
haftorah in the afternoon, two different ones.

And secondly, when we say ain maftirim, it means
an issur. But in general, we see what happened by
bnei Aharon, who were :o;:: no; n: :::: n '
15
.
Reading haftorah on a day on which haftorah was not
ordained by the chachmei hamishnah as a matter of
fact, chachmei hagemorah did not ordain any haftorah,

13
See Mishna in n:::: : . ,and Rashi there. Also :o c:n : " n :o ' ::; in the
old editions. In the Shlezinger edition see o ' :: footnote #3.
14
:: " c n:::n nx:c:: c::: :: : : :
" ;:x ;::o:: c:x:::: x:x n:n:c: c:::: c:::o nvcn: :x: :::: "
15
See x;:: : : x :
" :n;:: ::: ;nx ::: x:n::x: c:x :nnn: ::n:: ;n: cx :::c:: n::v no; ::;:: :::: n ' cx
n: cx x: n:s cnx "

203
the chachmei hamishnah were [the ones who
ordained them]
16
to me it appears like ketores
zarah. Perhaps its nicer as far as the kahal is
concerned, but this is out of a dream.

Even without brachos?

Even. You see, you could have done it. How? Ill tell
you how. If you want to read after by the way,
what haftorah are you reading?

Yom hashmini

The haftorah of shemini shel Pesach?
17
Yes? But people
have to work
18
[audience laughter]. Ill tell you
something about this haftorah if you wanted to do
it kdin Torah, not mamash am haaratzus, you take out
the sefer Torah, but you dont carry the neviim [out]
yet. Take out the sefer Torah, call up the people, read
the sefer Torah, do hagbah, glilah, be machzir the sefer
Torah lmakomah, say ashrei, uva ltzion, and then

16
See :o c:n : " n ::; : where it is termed " n:;n: c:::n " and attributed to
Ezra. Quoted by the :o v:::n :o ' x: cc: " n .
17
::v c::n from n:vc: ;: : - :: . See n:c c:::x: , published by ::: n:::c: ::: -
x::;v page 134. This book was supplied to us by R. Neal Turk of Cong.
Beth Israel, Miami Beach. If its hard to find, an overview of the Yom
HaAtzmaut service designed by Israels Chief Rabbinate can also be
found online, at:
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/holidays/Modern_Holidays/Yom
_Haatzmaut/Liturgy_620.htm
18
This is a fairly long haftorah.

20+
after kadish tiskabel, you can say not only the
haftorah, but the whole book of Yeshayahu [audience
laughter]. Why not? But to integrate into it the
pesichas haaron [opening the ;:x c::; ], and to carry
the haftorah, the sefer neviim, right behind the chazan
carrying the sefer Torah, this haftorah is a part of the
krias haTorah - thats what is forbidden.

Would it ever occur to you to read a haftorah on chol
hamoed? It would never occur to anyone. Because
[on] a yom shehmutar bmelachah, theres no haftorah.
Would it ever occur to you to call up seven or five
[people to the Torah] on yom haatzmaut? Why?
Because the same takanah which applies to [the]
haftorah applies also to [calling up] five or seven
[people]. Because its a yom shehmutar bmalachah.
Its out of the blue yonder.

r; n:rn

What about laining a different parsha?

Certainly not. In parshios there is no way. In haftorah
there is a way, if you want to read a haftorah, there is
a way. You can read krias haTorah, say ashrei, uva
letzion, tiskabel, because tiskabel is connected with
krias haTorah. Byom hakriah, ::;nn ;:nn::s ;:nn:v::
includes also a petition for krias haTorah to be
accepted. Then, after tiskabel, wonderful. You can

205
read whatever you want, kkoreh bkesuvim. But krias
haTorah, to read btzibur, this is an issur. Byom
shain bo kriah is an issur.

What about changing [the Torah reading] on Monday or
Thursday?

To change? Chas vsholom! The takanah is:
19

" c:;: ;:;:o::c n:c: n:nc cc ;::; nn::: , ::c:: :c::n::
n:c:: nx:n "
Monday is koveah the seder kriah of the whole year.

Just like on Chanuka, to be koray like inyana dyoma

What, Chanuka? Chanuka was a takanah in the
mishna.
20
BChanuka koray bnesiim.

Yom Yerushalayim

Any difference between Yom Haatzmaut and Yom
Yerushalayim, in terms of hallel or anything like that?

To me Yom HaAtzmaut and Yom Yerushalayim are
the same. You want to say hallel after tiskabel, you
can say hallel. Whole hallel, half hallel.

19
n:::: x: :
20
n:::c: n:::: : : : " n:::n: c:x:c:: "

206
New practices Not Based on Halachah

I dont believe you improve by doing things which
are not based upon halachah. On the contrary, as I
told you, it has a peculiar taste to me. When you
convert tefilah into a ceremonial, then the road is
clear to do anything under the sun. But if tefilah is
the way I explained to you: bakashas hatzlachah,
avodah shebleiv, korban
21

And basically akeidas Yitzchak was not a korban, is
not an ayil, but Yitzchak is the korban. It never says
" n::;v: :::x :c ;ns: ", but " n::;v ;ns: c::n c::n: :::n ".
The ayil is something secondary. But actually who
was the korban? Yitzchak was.
22

If you interpret in tefilah in such terms, in such
categories, then you cannot simply walk over and
take a sefer Torah out of the aron kodesh and read on
Yom HaAtzmaut a parshah which has not been
ordained by chachmei hamishnah. It depends upon a
concept of tefilah, and the trouble is that many of us
have concepts of tefilah which are wrong. Its not a
ceremonial, its not a performance, its the highest

21
In other words, there is a formal :o n:::nn which you cannot alter
arbitrarily.
22
In other words, on Yom Kippur we conceptually equate the tefillos of the
day with Akeidas Yitzchak. Tefillah is thus identified with man sacrificing
himself not an animal, but man himself before Hashem. If we took
tefillah this seriously, we would not alter it according to our whims.
Altering it capriciously trivializes and lessens the sanctity of the tefillah.

207
religious experience there is: the experience where
man comes and offers himself to HaKadosh Boruch
Hu.

First of all, he asks HaKadosh Baruch Hu for all kinds
of favors, for parnassah, and health, and
understanding, and whatnot, and the restoration of
Eretz Yisrael, and everything. Then the next minute
he says, All that I bring as an offering on the altar,
and take me and all my desires as the korban. If this
is the concept of tefilah, and tefilah is understood in
such terms, it isnt the childish performance.

I went downstairs for krias haTorah, and by
coincidence I found the program I dont know if
you followed the program last night. The
composition is indicative of retardation. [audience
laughter] Daven maariv, yes, but the composition
lecha dodi likras kallah?
23
Boys who are bnei Torah,
who can understand a gemara, a Tosfos, a Rashba
why should they follow such nonsense? No aveiros,
no issurim but its also forbidden to act like a fool.

You want to daven maariv of Yom Tov, if you know
the nigun. You want, after maariv, to say a couple
kapitel of tehillim, shir hamaalos. All the shir
hamaalos revolve about Eretz Yisrael and
Yerushalayim. Why hallel? The kapitel of shir

23
See n:c c:::x: page 35. For more on n:c c:::x: , see footnote 17.

208
hamaalos are more related to the events which we
celebrate than the pirkei hallel. Pirkei hallel were
chosen by Chazal as the hallel for certain occasions.
Chosen in a limited number, even. You see Rosh
Chodesh [has] no hallel basically, shevii shel Pesach
[has] no hallel. For a certain number of holidays, and
close! Kapitels of tehillim, shir hamaalos, you dont
need any better. It could be said nicely, with taste.
But the composition! Lecha dodi Im not
preaching, chas vsholom. For my part you could say
it next year, too. But there is kavod haTorah, the
dignity of lomdei Torah, of learning. Some official in
the Ministry of Religion of Eretz Yisrael has
composed some stupid program, so I have to follow
him? No lamdan could have done it. I object to the
fact that boys who are lomdei Torah and talmidei
chachamim Im not trying to flatter you they
should have a sense of dignity, and shouldnt do
things that are ridiculous, at best.
24

Eretz Yisrael vs. Chutz LAretz

Is there any difference in saying hallel in Eretz Yisrael
versus chutz laretz?

24
The Rav also gave his opinion opposing this night service, and saying
hallel at night in general, in a letter to R. Theodore Adams of the RCA in
1953. The letter is reproduced in the book Community, Covenant, and
Commitment, pages 123-4.

209
Might be. Might be. I dont believe the real hallel has
a case, if you ask me. Its not motivated by political
considerations. Hallel has no chiyuv.

Hallel, apparently, Chazal have ordained certain
holidays to require hallel, and certain holidays not
only dont require hallel, but hallel must not be
recited. Because you could have said, all right,
shevii shel Pesach, why not? Why not say hallel? But
apparently :cn ) n:n ( n:n: c:: :::: c:;nn :n
25
is only
the first day of Pesach. Since Pesach is one kedushah,
one hallel is good for seven days, and there is no
need for additional hallel. You see the tendency on
chazals part to limit the number of recitals of hallel.
Thats what you see from chazal. :: ::xn ::n ::: c::
;:x :: ;:n c::v: x:n .
26
Apparently they addressed
themselves to certain events: some people used to
say hallel bchol yom. Why should Chazal say bchlal
[at all] ;n: ;:::: ? Who did it? Apparently
somebody did it.

And c:: ::: doesnt mean only c:: :::.
27
It means
on days on which hallel was not ordained.

25
:n:vc: : : o:
26
See the earlier footnote relating to this phrase.
27
I.e, that it is only a problem if you say hallel literally on all 365 days of
the year. This interpretation would allow you to say hallel on any day of
the year, so long as you dont say it on all days.

210
So why should I start it? We want to celebrate, to
express our thanksgiving to HaKadosh Baruch Hu,
yes. But you have the sefer tehillim you could have
chosen wonderful kapitelach of tehillim.

Tachanun on Yom HaAtzmaut

What about tachanun?

Tachanun Ill forego. I dont see why tachanun is
made a patriotic duty. I dont see why you
shouldnt say tachanun. For my part you could say
tachanun. But tachanun and hallel are not mutually
exclusive
28
.

Hallel on Chanuka and Other Moadim

What kind of regulations are observed regarding the
holidays mentioned in megillas taanis?

Hallel you have only on Chanuka. Even on Purim
there is no hallel. " xn::; :: x:::n "
29
but there is no
hallel. With the exception of yom tov, where the
kedushas hayom is michayev, hallel is a hodaah. On
yom tov its also a hodaah, but on yom tov the

28
I.e., tachanun and hallel on Yom HaAtzmaut when the hallel is not being
said as hallel shel chova, but rather just as kriah bkesuvim (hallel shel reshus).
In instances where hallel is said as an obligation, it is mutually exclusive
with tachanun, though.
29
n:::: :: .

211
michayev of hallel is kedushas hayom. Hallel without
kedushas hayom means hallel of Chanuka; there is no
other hallel.
30

Music

What about music bpharhesya today, given that its
sefirah?

You are pulling it too far. I saw it as a question of
the dignity of the day. I just object to the haftorah
and the brachah, and to do things within the
framework of tefilah which are not justified.
31

Extended Pesukei dZimra

Whats the halachah on saying [the extended] pesukei
dzimra as on shabbos and Yom Tov?

On Hoshanah Rabbah you have it, and it was niskabel
that we do it. I will even tolerate that.

How the Rav Would Daven on Yom HaAtzmaut

Rebbi, the reason why many people do all these things is
really out of a lack of guidance of the proper way of

30
n:::n : : :
31
Apparently the Rav is saying that he did not have these objections to
music and the like. Apparently regarding the relatively recent custom of
not playing music during sefirah one can be lenient.

212
celebrating the fact of Medinas Eretz Yisrael, the fact that
it exists. If we were told the proper way of doing it, all
these things wouldnt be going on. Could the Rav
perhaps suggest, what would the Rav do?

What would I do? Id daven regular tefilah today.

Proper appreciation of Medinas Yisrael [The State
of Israel]

Is it at all proper to put aside a day of hodaah

There was a yeshua, no doubt about it. A great
yeshua. You are too young for that, but I do
remember. After the Second World War, when the
whole horrors of the Holocaust were revealed to the
people, we were in a very bad position.
Missionaries, assimilationists of all kinds, came out
of their hiding places, telling us this was exactly the
result if the Jewish standard is to retain their Jewish
identity. And if not for Medinas Yisrael or imagine
now, rachmanah litzlan, God forbid, Medinas Yisrael
is annihilated, is destroyed. The tidal wave of
assimilation would inundate the whole Diaspora.
Im not speaking only about France, and England,
and Italy, and the European countries, where
yahadus is exposed to, rachmanah litzlan, to

213
extinction, but even to the great community of
America.
32

The mere fact, after the Second World War, of
Medinas Yisrael, intentionally or unintentionally,
stopped the tidal wave of shmad. I met missionaries
on the trains, they used to come over - to me they
didnt do any harm, but they used to come over to
others as well. This is exactly what the Gospel said,
all of the predictions of the sonai Yisrael, yimach
shemom, came true thats what they used to say.
And the American youth was confused, completely
confused. And suddenly the establishment of
Medinas Yisrael came.

It could have been at a higher level, a different
story. It would have been better. But this does not
mean it is worthless. I experienced it. Many times
missionaries used to surround me, confused Jews.
One third was destroyed, and the rest will get
assimilated, lose Jewish identity, completely be
erased. Medinas Yisrael was the shield by HaKadosh
Baruch Hu to stop this kind of gossip about the end
of yahadus.

32
See also the Ravs classic Kol Dodi Dofek, in particular the fourth
knocking.

21+
So of course its a great yeshua, and we should give
thanks to HaKadosh Baruch Hu. But this does not
mean I have to do things which are unfounded.

Yom HaAtzmaut a Good Idea?

What should be done? Is the whole idea of Yom
HaAtzmaut a proper idea?

I dont know, its no idea. For my part, Yom
HaAtzmaut can be Yom Yerushalayim. I dont care
about the date. In my opinion there is no kedushas
hayom in the day. But the fact, the event, of Medinas
Yisrael requires shevach vhodaah to HaKadosh Baruch
Hu, and not only on Yom HaAtzmaut. On 365 days
of the year.

A Shield Against Assimilation

Even though I see, for instance, people come from
there was in Boston a judge, I dont want to use his
name, his father was the president of the Blue
Lavender shul. I remember when he came to
America and I asked him what they do for birchas
kohanim on shabbos yom tov. So he said The shul is a
classical shul, tradition is important. So anyway, I
had an argument with him, and he flew out.
Anyway, his son was a member of the Superior
Court, the Supreme Court in New York. Completely

215
assimilated. His chasunah when he got married was
treif, the first treif chasunah in Boston. It was before I
came. He himself was a member of Christian
Science Club. Completely assimilated, you dont
meet a more assimilated Jew than this particular
judg. He died many years ago. She [probably the
judges wife] was more assimilated than he. R. Yoel
Teller used to say, Chachmas haTorah is boundless,
and om haaratzus is also boundless. Assimilation is
also boundless. Last year I met her at an occasion,
and she came over and said to me, you know my
granddaughter settled on a kibbutz. And do you
know the name of that kibbutz? I inquired so I
found out. It couldnt have happened without
Medinas Yisrael. I know of one case, but there are
quite a number of cases.

This does not mean I justify all that which is going
on in Eretz Yisrael. Very far from it. I want to tell
you this is my personal opinion there is no
doubt that Medinas Yisrael is important now. It was
important when it was established, it is important
now too as a prevention, a protection, a shield
against shmad and general assimilationism, whether
secular or Chistian. What difference does it make?

Keeping Perspective

It is very important. I emphasize that it is not the
highest good we have in our hierarchy of values.

216
Axiologically, it is not the highest good. The highest
good in our hierarchy of values is one: HaKadosh
Baruch Hu, and our special relationship we have to
Him, which expresses itself in observance, a unique
morality, and a unique and singular way of life.
This is the highest value, not the state. It has never
been. The highest value is the Torah, and our
specific relationship to HaKadosh Baruch Hu which
the Torah then requires of us. There is no doubt
about it. Yahadus does not revolve about the state, it
revolves about HaKadosh Baruch Hu.

We hope yahadus will survive anywhere, ki li kol
haaretz.
33
This is on the one hand. On the other
hand, one should not underestimate the importance
and significance of the State of Israel, at present, as
far as the survival of netzach Yisrael is concerned.
We might have survived without it, at lesser
numbers.

Eschatology

Is there any validity to hakamas hamedinah as far as
geulah or shivas tzion is concerned?

No. Yimay haMoshiach? No. Since it contributed
greatly to the survival of our people it is very
important. This itself is important. But all this

33
This phrase will be explained later.

217
stupidity aschalta dgeulah, geulah I am against
it.
34

Would the Rav prefer that those who celebrate Yom
HaAtzmaut celebrate it on a different day?

I dont care about Yom HaAtzmaut. Yom HaAtzmaut
doesnt mean much to me. As a festival it doesnt
mean much to me.

Political Destiny

Does the Rav think that Jews controlling their own
political destiny is important?

Its a different problem. Thats of course important.
No matter how bad a Jew is, hes better than a goy
[audience laughter].
35
And according to the Ramban,
its a part of yirshu haaretz, yerishto vyashavta bo.
36

So it is important. I would like to see a Jewish

34
Obviously, each day we get one day closer to the geulah. However, the
Rav seemed to feel it very presumptuous to make declarations which
assume we know some of the secrets of the geulah, which Hashem did not
even allow Yaakov to reveal to the shevatim (see c " : n:cx: o: : x ).
35
The Rav said this humorously, not in a serious tone, as evidenced by
the audience laughter. His point was that he would want the
government of Israel, the Jewish State, to be run by a Jew, not an Arab or
any other non-Jewish leader. By contrast, in the US or any other non-
Jewish country, he would probably prefer to have a non-Jewish
president than a Jewish one. He was not speaking about Jews or non-
Jews in general.
36
Possibly :: " ; :::: :: : ::

218
governor in Yerushalayim [more] than an Arab or a
Christian governor. The mere fact that its the first
time in history that the Jews control makom
hamikdash has significance to that.
37
But again, this
is not yahadus in toto [Latin: in totality]. Yahadus in
toto is the Ribbono Shel Olam.

Two Different Covenants

Would rebbi say it is incumbent upon all bnei yeshiva to
go to Eretz Yisrael? Do you feel that the bnei yeshiva
should sit in America, or to be there and change things.

This is already a speech for aliyah [audience laughter].

When there was a kerissas bris, a covenant reached
with Avraham Avinu and HaKadosh Baruch Hu, Eretz
Yisrael was a part of the bris:
" :nn:: ;: ;v::: ;:nx nx ;x ;::: nx :: ;x ;v:: n:nx:
38
c::v :n::n: cn: c:;:x: "

The covenant participated between Avraham,
HaKadosh Baruch Hu, and Eretz Yisrael. That is why

37
The Rambam in n:::n : : x writes that the greatness of Chanuka was that
Jewish kingship returned to the land of Israel for over 200 years. R.
Parness, my rebbe during my first years at RIETS, always pointed out
that the Hasmonean kings were far from righteous, and that for most of
those 200 years religious Jewry suffered horribly under their reign.
Nevertheless, just the idea of having Jewish sovereignty was considered
a great thing by the Rambam.
38
n:cx: :: : n

219
the Ramban says the very moment when one of the
Avos, or one of the shevatim, stepped over the
boundary line of Eretz Yisrael, and found himself in
chutz laretz, he found himself relieved of kiyum
mitzvas haTorah. Thats what the Ramban says.
Thats why Yaakov married two sisters, and Rachel
died in order to come back to Eretz Yisrael, because
in Eretz Yisrael the status of Yaakov was that of a
Jew, kedushas Yisrael, and [in] chutz lEretz Yisrael he
had no status of kedushas Yisrael.
39

This is correct as far as the bris between HaKadosh
Baruch Hu and Avraham is concerned. Then the
aretz played a most important role. When the Torah
was given at Sinai, so HaKadosh Baruch Hu said
40
:
" nnv: cx v::c :v:cn ::;: cn:c: nx :n:: cn::n: :: n::o
";xn :: :: :: c::vn :::

Whats :: :: :: ;xn ? Rashi over there says :: :: ::
;xn does not belong.
41
:: :: :: ;xn means

39
See :: " ; x;:: n: : n:
40
n::c o: : n
41
Rashis comment indicates that the concluding words :: :: :: ;xn are
out of place. The first part of the passuk describes us as the Chosen
people because we keep the mitzvos. What does that have to do with :: ::
:: ;xn - because Hashem has the whole world?
Rashi therefore explains that the last phrase was added in order to
explain what it means for us to be considered Chosen. Since Hashem runs
the entire world, and He could have selected any nation in His
dominion, therefore selecting us alone makes us Chosen.
" ;: cnx ::nn :: n:::o xc: n:::x x:: ::xn cnx c:::: ::c ;:x: :: c:nx c::v n:: c:
:: ::v xnnc c:n:n n:: :: :: :: ;xn cn: :::v: ::::: c:::: "

220
HaKadosh Baruch Hu said to Moshe, this covenant
is not limited to space and to land. This covenant is
obligatory and binding on every Jew, no matter
where he finds himself. No matter whether in
Boston, or New York, or Eretz Yisrael. Whether on
Har Habayis or on the moon because :: :: :: ;xn
42
.
Kiyum hamitzvos is applicable not only to the bnei
Eretz Yisrael, but to any Jew, no matter where he
finds himself. Hence, to say yahadus revolves about
yishuv Eretz Yisrael would be wrong.

However, there is a mitzvah of yishuv Eretz Yisrael.
Whether the mitzvas yishuv Eretz Yisrael is a priority
now there are many considerations by which a
man should be guided. I have another approach to

The Ramban takes a very unusual position in interpreting the passuk, and
says that :: :: :: ;xn actually referes to Eretz Yisrael. He uses a more
kabalistic interpretation in which it means to me is the land that is
known as kol - that it is a reference to the land of Israel, which embodies
all ultimate spiritual and physical attributes, just as the Torah refers to
Avraham having the beracha of kol. (See also :o ;c:c n::v of R. Moshe
deLeon, pg 28, where the term :: is identified with the kabalistic sphere
Yesod.) It is fascinating that the Ramban in this interpretation would be
consistent with his view that the ultimate performance of mitzvos is
rooted in Israel.
42
The Ravs interpretation of the ;:o: seems to be that the first clause
makes our n:::o/Chosen status dependent on n::c n::s:n and adherence
to the bris. The second clause implies that we are not the Chosen People
based on our living in Eretz Yisrael, since the entire world is Hashems,
and we can be his Chosen People anywhere. The Ravs interpretation is
supported by the c::n :::c:: and ::::o, who writes that the goyim are
also important to Hashem, and our only special n:::o significance
therefore comes from our observance of the mitzvos. See possibly the :x
c::nn as well.

221
the matter, too. Of course, a man should live in
Eretz Yisrael its a mitzvah, according to the
Ramban at least.
43
However, a man should also live
in a place where he can accomplish the most for
yahadus. Its also a mitzvah. If a man can accomplish
the most for yahadus in New York, then hes got to
stay in New York. If he feels he can accomplish
more in Eretz Yisrael than New York, then let him
go to Eretz Yisrael. Dont tell people, particularly the
Bnei Akiva that I am speaking against aliyah, Im
not speaking against aliyah. Its not so simple a
problem.

If you work with the idea that no Eretz Yisrael
means no brisas Yisrael, then you are returning to
the covenant of Avraham Avinu, which has already
been replaced by ki li kol haaretz. cnx: ::nn :: n::::
c::n: :::: c::; You will be to me a kingdom of
priests and a great nation
44
. You cannot say its not
Eretz Yisrael so youre not a Jew. You cannot
criticize certain people who live in a Diaspora. As a
matter of fact, R. Yehuda HaLevi accomplished in
the Diaspora more than he did in Eretz Yisrael.
Whether he ever came to Eretz Yisrael, he didnt
accomplish anything in Eretz Yisrael.
45

43
:: " ; :::: :: : ::
44
n::c o: : :
45
R. Yehuda HaLevi travelled to Eretz Yisrael towards the end of his life.
There are different traditions regarding the end of this journey, and it is
unclear whether he actually reached Jerusalem, with some legends

222
Our prime duty is to cultivate a life of Torah, and to
study Torah, and to observe, and to pass on Gods
word. And the place of a man is where he can
accomplish the most. This is my opinion. How it
rhymes with yishuv Eretz Yisrael is your job to find
out. To say that one who lives outside Eretz Yisrael,
doesnt want to go to Eretz Yisrael, that his kedushas
Yisrael is affected, its not only false but, again,
stupid.

Rishonim Moving to Eretz Yisrael

The Kuzari speaks about three kedushos: kedushas
Yisrael, kedushas Eretz Yisrael, and the kedushah of
lashon hakodesh.
46
But this is his philosophy, which
were not supposed to [necessarily] accept, or take
for granted.

All the gemaros he quotes were known to the
Rambam as well! And the Rambam in Hilchos
Melachim speaks about yishuv Eretz Yisrael. He
doesnt count it as a mitzvah.
47
The Rambam himself

claiming he was killed by an Arab horseman within sight of her gates.
There is a very early confirmation that he actually reached Har Tzion,
and composed ;::s x:n ::xcn at its foot, in a report from an unpublished
early manuscript which I am currently preparing for publication
together with my son Avraham. This manuscript reads:
::o: :::: n::n: :::n ;::oc;n cx n:o: nnn n ;::s :x::: c::c::: cv ;::n ::o: ) : (
nx: n ;::s :c ) : ]( c [ xc: nx :::; n::: :v ::::n :x: " ;::s x:n ::xcn "
46
:o ::::n :x: : n:x n - :o
47
See c:::: n : o - :: , where the Rambam describes living in Eretz Yisrael in
emphatic terms. Despite his strong language, the Rambam did not go so

223
lived in Cairo. He was in Eretz Yisrael a very short
time. Because he felt he could accomplish in Cairo
more than in Eretz Yisrael. Eretz Yisrael in the
Rambams time was a country with few Jews, and
he couldnt accomplish anything. The Rambam
might not have written the sefer Mishneh Torah if he
had been in Eretz Yisrael I dont know. But Im not
going to say the Rambam did not fulfill mitzvas
yishuv haaretz, chas vsholom.

We have many gedolei Yisrael who went to Eretz
Yisrael, but many stayed in the Diaspora. Dont
misinterpret or misquote me as if I speak against
the yishuv Eretz Yisrael, I dont speak against yishuv
Eretz Yisrael. [But] take for instance the Chachmei
Provence. Many of them went to Eretz Yisrael -
Rabbeinu Yonason HaKohen went to Eretz Yisrael
48
-
many remained in Southern France. The Chachmei
Tzorfas of Northern France, Rabbeinu Tam and his
school, did not go to Eretz Yisrael. Its very strange,
as far as Torah shebal peh is concerned, that we have
very little from the Baalei HaTosfos who went to
Eretz Yisrael. We have from them before they
departed to Eretz Yisrael. [But] after they went to
Eretz Yisrael, we have very little writings. Our Torah

far as to list it as one of his :o: n::s:n in his introduction to n:::n c:::: , so
it cannot be an actual mitzvah. It also does not appear anywhere in the
:: " c :o n::s:n .
48
See :x " : n " x :o ' :c " : , as quoted by c::x x . ;::x in his ::v: n::o:nn :
":xc: ;x: n:vc nvc: :::::: ;n::: 'n: ncv:: n::n ::cn" x":s:n

22+
shebal peh happens to be based on the Chachmei
Tzorfas HaTzafonos [Sages of France of the North]
Rashi, Rabbeinu Tam, Rashbam, the Rivan [R.
Yehuda BR Nasan - a son-in-law of Rashi], and the
Riva [R. Yitzchak BR Asher - a talmid of Rashi] . If
you ask me who accomplished, as far as Torah
shebal peh, it was Chachmei Tzafon.

Rabbeinu Yonason held different apparently. He felt
he would accomplish more in Eretz Yisrael. We have
mipi hashemuah halachos from them, but simply
svaros and writings, we have very few. The question
of Eretz Yisrael is not so simple, the way some
people want to present it.

Not Inferior

The Rav mentioned that before the Jews were able to go
up, and only a few went up, and it affected had the olei
Bavel gone up

Byimay Ezra you mean. The gemara is critical of
those who did not go up, yes. But I would still
distinguish between aliyah then and nowadays.

I object to one thing. I am a member of the aliyah
group, Bnei Akiva thats basically what it is
[audience laughter]. The secular aliyah agents went
completely bankrupt, but Bnei Akiva is doing better

225
than the secular agents. All I object is, you can
preach the ideals of yeshivas Eretz Yisrael, but one
thing you should leave out: not to try to create a
doubt in the minds of those who study Torah, and
are bnei yeshiva, that their yahadus is inferior to the
kedushas Yisrael of eretz yisraelim who dont study
Torah, and dont think. No inferiority as far as
kedushas Yisrael is concerned. This is :: :: :: ;xn .
If you want to speak simply about the mitzvah, and
what you can accomplish, that you can accomplish
more in Eretz Yisrael than you can here, thats OK.
But dont become pressured, dont apply pressure
to a person who thinks that his place is here because
he is accomplishing more here than in Eretz Yisrael.
I know of many who did a good job in America,
and came to Eretz Yisrael and simply lost their
initiative, who are not happy. I know of many. Lets
not fool ourselves.

If you follow the philosophy of Tzvi Hirsch Kook, a
Jew outside of Eretz Yisrael is a non-Jew. And this is
exactly against the passuk of :: :: :: ;xn . A Jew
outside of Eretz Yisrael can be a perfect Jew. Where
you accomplish more is up to the individual.

Never Again?

Can it be a future for yiddishkeit, if America, like we see
Germany, Spain, were destroyed?

226

You mean physically? You want me to talk turkey,
or you want me to be nice?

The emes.

Imagine America goes anti-Semitic, rachmanah
litzlan, like Germany in 1932. Imagine America
discontinues its aid to Eretz Yisrael, and supplies the
Arabs with all the sophisticated weapons. Imagine
that, in addition to America it doesnt matter
anyway that France and England go anti-Semitic.
Now you have to take into consideration the 100
million Arabs. And Arab-friendly Russia. How
secure would be Eretz Yisrael?

x: c: ' ::: [Hashem will not forsake His nation]
49

Thats a different story. x: co: n ' ::v applies to God
in time of war. Eretz Yisrael has perhaps a better
chance. Dont rationalize it.

" }x: o: rxt or:: ;:x: o:x ..."
50

" x: c:nox: x:: c:n:v: cn::: :n: :n:: cnx :: ::x n ' ...
cn:;:x "
It might be the zechus of Eretz Yisrael is magen
[protects us], yes. But when the secular Zionists

49
:x::c x :: : :: .
50
x;:: :: : ::

227
come, when the Mapai and the Histadrut come and
tell me a story to move to Eretz Yisrael because here
anti-Semitism is acute, that whatever happened in
Germany might repeat itself here, [and] if they [also
meanwhile] vote for anti-religious legislation in the
Knesset, they are trying just to frighten you, and
they are illogical.

The Rav believes it could happen, chos vshalom, in Eretz
Yisrael?

Ill tell you, Germany taught us one lesson, that a
human being may become a devil. If the Germans
could become, then the Americans may, and the
Englishman and the Frenchman. Everyone. There is
a possibility. But there is also a possibility that our
earth will collide with a heavenly body that comes
from nowhere, and life will be destroyed on our
earth. Its a possibility, but that doesnt mean a
probability that it will happen. Of course its
possible. :: c:xn ::: .
51
Even before the German
catastrophe, man could become a devil, could
become corrupt and cruel, and act like an animal.
The Holocaust taught us that lesson. This does not
mean it must be so. We hope it will not happen.

The people in the Diaspora have also a right to ask
HaKadosh Baruch Hu to protect them. Perhaps we

51
c:::nn :o; : x:

228
dont fulfill the mitzvah of yishuv Eretz Yisrael, but
we perform other mitzvos. And supporting Eretz
Yisrael is not yishuv Eretz Yisrael? You see something
now which is almost unbelievable: the fact that
American Jewry, call it lobby, is defying the
President, and is winning. Take [Jimmy] Carter
how many times has he changed his mind? What is
it due to? The pressure of American Jewry. This is
not a zechus of yishuv Eretz Yisrael? The fact that they
give 20 more sophisticated airplanes to Eretz Yisrael,
is not a part of yishuv Eretz Yisrael? Yishuv Eretz
Yisrael is only one who lives in Eretz Yisrael, and
sings lecha dodi likras kallah on the night of Yom
HaAtzmaut? And then the money we give, hundreds
of millions of dollars, [that] is not yishuv Eretz
Yisrael? As far as zechuyos are concerned, I dont
know. I cant count zechuyos. The Rambam says
zechuyos are counted only by HaKadosh Baruch Hu.
52

What I want to do is not to complicate the problem.
Im not Satmar, Im very far from it. I appreciate
Eretz Yisrael. But dont yield to certain influences
which have a destructive effect upon us.

52
n::cn : : :

229

c:; r::xn : "

What do you do with the Ramban in Devarim which says
the kiyum mitzvos in chutz laretz is not on the same
level as in Eretz Yisrael?
53

I knew that Ramban before you were born! [audience
laughter] Kook comes out with the Ramban as if he
is the only one to whom the Ramban has entrusted
the text. I knew about it, and I sweated out the
Ramban. I sweated out the Ramban, and the
Ramban never said it. This is a Sifri, a difficult Sifri
in limadatem osem ess binachem, vhaaretz yitan ess
yevula, and we dont know exactly the text of the
Sifri.
54
And no matter who says it, I dont care. The

53
:: " ; c::: x: : n:
54
The difficulty arises from the Sifris implication that the only reason we
need to keep the mitzvos in galus is so that we should be familiar with
them when we return to Eretz Yisroel. (This is based on the interpretation
of the Maharal, who combines the two parts of the Sifri cited below.)
Although the Sifri clearly says that we are obligated to keep all the
mitzvos, it still implies that the obligation which exists in chutz laretz is
secondary to the obligation which exists in Eretz Yisroel.
The commentators all struggle to explain this difficult concept - why
would we think that mitzvos should not apply in the Diaspora? There
should be no reason why the obligation to keep the mitvos is not a
universal one, as the Rav explains based on :: :: :: ;xn .
To answer this question, R. Dovid Pardo in his commentary on the Sifri
suggests that we might think that we should not keep the mitzvos in
foreign lands since keeping the mitzvos would provide a merit to the
nations we are living under.
I would like to suggest another approach, one which I unfortunately
never had a chance to discuss with the Rav. Rashi ( c::: x: : n: ) in his

230

explanation and version of the Sifri says that we derive our obligation to
keep the mitzvos while in exile based on the two mitzvos clearly set out by
the Torah as obligatory there: tefilin and mezuzah. Just as we are
commanded specifically to keep tefilin and mezuzah in the Diaspora, so
too we must keep all the other mitzvos.
Why did the Torah single out these two mitzvos in particular? Because
both of these mitzvos symbolize the unique relationship between Am
Yisrael and Hashem. Tefilin is an n:x, a special sign between us and Hashem
(see n::: x: . ). Tefilin are also x:, and symbolize the Glory of Hashem
upon us, which causes the nations of the world to fear us (see n::: : . ).
Similarly, mezuzah is an n:x on our house, and the Zohar describes one
with mezuzah on his door as crowned with the crown of his Master, ovnx
::ov: n:x:: ) n:: c::: no ( .
One might think that mitzvos symbolizing a unique relationship would
not apply when the special relationship is lost, such as when we are in
exile. Therefore the Torah informed us that even these remain with us -
and if they remain, certainly all other mitzvos remain, as well. Even in
our exile, Hashem is still with us.
Conceptually, the Sifri is saying that one might think that we do not
deserve to do any mitzvos in exile, since mitzvos are a zechus, an
opportunity to serve Hashem, not just an obligation. The response of the
Sifri is that the optimal service of Hashem will only be realized when the
relationship is reestablished at the geulah, but that we are also obligated
to do the mitzvos now in an attempt to reestablish that relationship. It is
only by working and yearning towards the relationship that we can
realize it.
For the text of the Sifri see below.
: :: x;o:: c::: ::o " nx :: n
nn: cn::x: nx :: , ::: n:x ::: nx cn:c: ,' ns:n: ;xn ;: c:nx n::: ::xc :: :v ;x
c:c:n c:::v :n: x: ::nnc:c n:s:: c:::::s: ::n ;x: , :v ov:c c:: c: ;::: :c:
;: c:c:n ;::v :n: x: ::nnc:c ;:o:c:n: noc:;: ::n n: :x n::x n::: n:o: :ncx
n ;:: c::;n :x c:c:n c:::v :n: x: ::nnc:c n:s:: c:::::s: ::n ::: :xc:: x:

c:::: :v n:x ::: nx cn:c: , n:n ::::n n: , ;::::n ::x c::: :v n:x: cn:x cnc;: , ;:x
:x x: cn::c ;::c :x ;:::: ;: nnx :n ;::: n:n:c n:s: xc n:n ::::n: ;::::n x:x ::
n:n ::::n :x: ;::::n ;::n n:s: cnc cn:c n:cn :sn ;::::n :x: n:n ::::n :x x::
n::n:: ;x: n::::n ;:xc ;::n n::s: :: ;: ;x: ns:n:: ;x: n::n::: ;x: n::::n ;:xc
:v::x :: c:x::n: n:vn ;: ;:n ;x: x:x n:n:: n::x ;x: n:::nc: ;x: ns:n: ;x:
c:nn ;x ::x

231
three words :: :: :: ;xn
55
settles everything.
Ramban, Kuzari :: :: :: ;xn . It means chovos
hamitzvos in chutz laretz is not to be considered a
prologue or introduction to kiyum hamitzvos in Eretz
Yisrael. They are of the same importance. A Jew
who takes an esrog in chutz laretz has the same
reward, the same schar, as the Jew who takes an
esrog in Eretz Yisrael. Its a difficult Ramban, its a
difficult Rashi - but dont frighten me with it.
56

Cant we say instead : ;::: x:r ::r , that davka
bYerushalayim youll accomplish more, even from
galus?
57

Ill tell you frankly, I believe that I interpret a shitckl
gemara besser fun asach in Eretz Yisrael [Yiddish: a
piece of gemara better than many in x " : ]. [audience
laughter]. When I dont have to go into temporary
structures.
58
Ay, avira dEretz Yisrael machkim? Ay,
ain Torah kToras Eretz Yisrael? I know all those
maamarim, which are used by the Mizrachi
uprights.

55
Yes, it does seem to be four words. Perhaps the Rav considered one to
be non-integral to the drasha.
56
:: " ; c: " : :v c::: x: : n:
57
:n:vc: : : :
58
In the new settlements in Eretz Yisrael, the yeshivos were often located
in caravans and trailers, at least as temporary measures.

232
Does the bris with Avraham Avinu have any significance
today?

Sinai replaced it. Ki li kol haaretz. What would you
say, one who leaves Eretz Yisrael and finds himself
in chutz laretz is patur min hamitzvos? This is exactly
the question.

Not that if we still stayed in place that Sinai wouldnt
exist outside Eretz Yisrael, but that there is an added
kiyum in Eretz Yisrael.

I dont believe so. I dont believe because, the way
the gemara interprets it, all the mitzvos which were
given to Abraham, like milah particularly, we
fulfilled the mitzvah not because of Abraham.
59
The
fact that it was given to Abraham does not obligate
us to do it not at all. We are not supposed to
follow Abraham. But because it was given to Moshe
Rabbeinu once more.

Does the bris bein habessarim have anything to do with
us at all?

The havtachas haaretz, the promise. Eretz Yisrael
muchzekes hee lanu mavoseinu [Eretz Yisrael is an
inheritance to us from our forefathers]. But the bris
of HaKadosh Baruch Hu, Yisrael, plus Eretz Yisrael,

59
o: ;::n:o :

233
this has been replaced at Sinai, which is HaKadosh
Baruch Hu and Yisrael.

What do we have havtachas haaretz now, if ki li kol
haaretz replaces the

Because if you study the parshios of Avraham
properly, youll find out there are two brisos. One
bris is a combination of HaKadosh Baruch Hu,
Avraham, and the aretz; and then a second bris for
Eretz Yisrael. That second havtachah prevails,
continues. But making Abrahams way of life
dependent upon Eretz Yisrael, this has been replaced
by bris Sinai.
59*

What meaning does havtachos haaretz to us, if there is
no difference if we are inside or outside Eretz Yisrael
except for one kiyum hamitzvah of aliyah laretz?

[The havtachah matters] so that Eretz Yisrael belongs
to us, a dinay mammonus. The gemara in Bava Basra
says thats why bechor notel buh pi shnayim [the
firstborn gets a double portion when inheriting],
because it belongs to us.
60
It is simply a dinay

59*
The two brisos of Avraham would seem to refer, respectively, to the
bris bein habesarim (Bereishis 15:18), and the bris at which his name
changes from Avrum to Avraham (Bereishis 17:2) which is explicitly
called a bris olam (17:7).

The difference between these two brisos seems to be that the bris bein
habesarim links our future in Eretz Yisroel to Avrahams own personal

23+
mammonus halachah. And secondly, so that in the
geulah asidah, when the melech hamoshiach will
arrive, Eretz Yisrael will be the same.
;:::n: n ' :::;:x ... n: ;::s ;:c: ;:::: :c:::: c: :v ;c:; ".
61
" ;::: n ' c::v: ;:;:x ;::s :: :: n::::n
This is the havtacha: that Eretz Yisrael belongs to us,
and that Eretz Yisrael will be the center of gilui
shechinah at the time when HaKadosh Baruch Hu will
redeem knesses Yisrael.
62

In tefilas hamusafim of Rosh Hashanah we say:

merit, irrespective of our actions. This is why Avraham there expresses a
fear that his merit would not be sufficient. In contrast, the name-change
bris is based on the actions of Avrahams descendants. It is contingent on
our making Hashem our God, and performing bris milah.

It is interesting to note that it is this latter bris which we mention when
we say at a bris milah lhachniso bbriso shel Avraham Avinu.

The Ravs concept that the bris of Avraham is modified by the bris Sinai
is reflected in the passuk (17:7), which keeps repeating variations on
zarecha, banecha, indicating that the concept of lhios lecha lElokim, the
responsibilities for Avraham, will be different than the lhios lecha
lElokim for zerecha (om yisroel), which were redefined at Sinai.
60
See x:: xn: o:; . , where the bnos Tzelafachad were able to inherit the
land of their father in Eretz Yisrael only because:
x " : n;:n:: x:n c:::n: ::o: n:::: ::x cn::x .
61
These are two partial quotes from ;::: ;n ;:n: , which also includes part
of c::nn ::; .
62
The Rav has many times expressed the greatness of Eretz Yisrael in
other respects. Here he is apparently commenting merely on the
havtachah (promise), which is more gashmi (physicality-oriented). See for
instance n:cx: :o : :: , where the havtachah to Avraham after centuries of
slavery is :nx: ;: :xs: c:: :::: and afterwards they will go out with
great wealth.

235
" :n::: nx :n:: ::;v: ;x: nx :n:: ;ns: ;x: nx :n:: cn:x
63
::x ;xn: ::x "
This is the bris of Avraham, Yitzchak, and Yaakov,
and the msader tefilah says it cannot be detached
from the bris haaretz: ;xn: ::x . Then, when we say
the tefilah;
" c::;: ::: n ' :::;:x nx ::n ::nno:nc ;n:n: :v ::: nc:
cn: n:n:" !:o r: "c:::cx n:: cn: :n::: ;::v
c:;:x: "
64

63
x;:: :: : ::
64
At first glance it is not clear why the Rav felt that this must be a
reference to the bris at Har Sinai. The passuk ( x;:: :: : n: ) of:
:n::: cn: n:: c::cx cx :nxs:n cnx ;x: c:s: :::v: c:::n n:n: cn: c:n:x:
can be interpreted in two ways:
1. "And I remembered for them [who left Mitzrayim] the bris that I made
wirth the Earlier Ones [Avos or shevatim, see below] that [for the sake of
the Earlier Ones] I took them [who left Mitzrayim] out of Mitzrayim
before the eyes of the nations to be for them [who left Mitzrayim] God.
In this interpretation c::cx " - Earlier Ones would mean either the Avos
(Avraham, Yitzchak, and Yaakov; see x:n ::: :n::x n: ;: o: ), or the
shevatim (sons of Yaakov; see Rashi, and Raavads interpretation of Sifra
:n:;:n: ;: n ).
But we can also interpret the passuk a second way:
2. :n::: cn: n:: c::cx cx :nxs:n cnx ;x: c:s: :::v: c:::n n:n: cn: : c:n:x
"And I will remember for them [future generations of Jews who are in
exile] the bris that I made with the nation who I took out from Egypt in
front of all the nations of the world, to be their God".
In this approach n:: c::cx is a reference to the bris at Har Sinai. See the
commentaries of R. Ibn Ezra and R. Bachaya on x;:: :: : n: , who support
this approach. This is the interpretation the Rav is taking of the passuk.
I did not discuss this with the Rav, but it could be that this is the reason
why the Rav specifically quoted the nusach hatefila here as a proof, and
did not refer to the verse as it appears in the Torah. When the :o: n::nn ,
quotes this passuk he is clearly taking the second approach, since he asks
Hashem to establish for us now the thing that He promised, the n::
c::cx. The n:: c::cx therefore clearly refers to the bris made at Har
Sinai, not the bris made with the Avos or shevatim.

236
Here the aretz is not mentioned. Two krisos bris, two
covenants.

The Value of Eretz Yisrael

Why is it a zechus to own Eretz Yisrael in dinay
mammonus?

Lets not fool ourselves, Eretz Yisrael has kedushas
haaretz, no doubt about it. Terumos and maaseros,
Eretz Yisrael is kadosh. It is a kiyum hamitzvah to live
in Eretz Yisrael. For Ramban in :n " :
65
, although
Rambam doesnt mention it. Many are inclined to
say the Rambam considered yishuv Eretz Yisrael as a
great experience, as good and wonderful, as a
zechus, but not a mitzvah in the full sense of the
world. Many achronim say such a thing. Some
achronim say the Rambam is in agreement with the
Ramban, but he didnt count it in :n " : why is a
question.
66
But whatever it is, there is no doubt it is
something positive, which doesnt do any harm.

65
n::s: ncv nv:: ::n " ; n:s: :
66
:c " n :c " c :o ' x - : :: ' ::n " c , :nc :n: c::::c n::v: x: " : , :v ' ;:n: : ::n c::v:
x: " : ; nx: ;n:cn :o ' x n::: :xc: o " ; :: ; n:: ;ns: ) c:;::c ( n " x :o ' n n:x : , ::v:
c:::nx , :v ' ns:x " : ;: : , ::; ' ::c: x " : o " ; x n:x x , :v: ' n::cn :v: :x :::: : " :::o "
;: : :v ' :: ;:s: :v::x n " : :o ' n: :: " : , x:nc n:s: n: " n , x:: nx:: c::vo: c:::c , v " c .
:v: ' ns:x " : cc n:x n cc: c:::nx cx c:::s n:::: n:s:: , cc: o " ; n n:x x , cvo: ;:xc
c:::: :v n:s: :: .
) n:::::;:s:x n:::::n n:vn ;: n: , n::c: ;x :xc: , :o non nvn 42 (

237
But on the other hand, youve got to tell me that a
Vilna Gaon who traveled to Eretz Yisrael and came
back was not as perfect as a gadol who lived in Eretz
Yisrael? I would never take it. Our whole Torah
shebal peh, rov harishonim, consists of the chachmei
haTosfos, chachmei Safered. Some went, like the
Ramban, but some didnt. Apparently the
personality of the Jew is not perfected by yishuv
Eretz Yisrael, like some say. If a Jew lacks the mitzvas
yishuv Eretz Yisrael, there is something else he can
do to complete and perfect his personality. Call it
harbatzas Torah, call it carrying out the ideas of Torah
shebal peh, teaching others, leading a life which
would be exemplary for others. You balance values.

The Rambam was not in Eretz Yisrael [on a permanent
basis]. R. Yehudah HaLevi was. Would you say the
Rambam was inferior to R. Yehudah HaLevi? With
all respect to R. Yehudah HaLevi, hes not the
Rambam. He didnt write Mishneh Torah. If not for
the Rambam, I couldnt make a living [audience
laughter].

I dont like when people take Jewish history and
secularize it, and interpret it in false terms. Why the
Rambam didnt go to Eretz Yisrael is for a simple
reason: he felt Cairo was the center of Oriental
Jewry. All the teshuvas hagaonim we have, come
from the Cairo geneizah. How did the teshuvas

238
hagaonim, which were written in Bavel, end up in
the Cairo geneizah? Because the caravans used to
start in Cairo. So the kehillah in Cairo used to open
and copy the teshuvas addressed to Spain and others
for their own needs. The Rambam felt in Cairo he
could accomplish more.

The Ramban writes that when he came to
Yerushalayim, he found there eight Jews.
67
Eight or
seven, I dont remember. And when he was in
northern Spain he had hundreds and thousands of
talmidim. The Ramban revolutionized the whole
R. Chaim did it later, but the forerunner of R.
Chaim was the Ramban. The whole shitas havanah
was introduced by the Ramban. Did he accomplish
more in Spain or alone in Eretz Yisrael, I do not
know, I have no right to say, too little to judge. But
if you ask me, the Chidushei HaRamban were written
in Spain, not Eretz Yisrael.

Accusations Against Gedolim Remaining in
Europe

Rebbi, you could say just the opposite. Youre going back
to the Middle Ages. Of the gedolim who lived in the last
century, those who picked up instead of remaining in

67
See n:x : of the Ramban, written to his son Nachman, in the :o:: :n
;:; edition of the ::n: ::n " ; , Volume 1, page 367. It appears that there
were only two Jews permanently living there, although more Jews came
in to the city on shabbos, probably for tefillos.

239
Poland and Europe, how many seforim were lost? Most
remained with their communities, and the few yechidim
who-

This accusation I heard from many. You shouldnt
repeat it. I dont want to go into detail, for I always
feel very sad about it. The source of this accusation
an accusation hurled at gedolei Yisrael comes not
from a religious source. I knew the one who hurled
it the first time. I dont want to discuss it. Many
people were killed and lost. What else?

Deciding to Live in Eretz Yisrael

What should we be doing today, bizman hazeh?

First of all, to be Jews. Secondly to study Torah and
spread knowledge of Torah, and train a Jew to
observe the Torah, no matter where he lives,
regardless of geography. Third, to support Eretz
Yisrael. If in his present opportunity he can continue
his good work in Eretz Yisrael, as he can in the
Diaspora, then to move to Eretz Yisrael. But if he
feels moving to Eretz Yisrael will not promote his
work, if here in America he has a group of a
hundred people, while in Eretz Yisrael he has a
group of ten people, the hundred Jews in America
he will convert, influence, or enlighten are by far
superior to the ten in Eretz Yisrael.

2+0
Disagreeing with State of Israel Policy

Now there is an official public opinion which is
molded not by religious, but by secular, Jews.
People used to accuse us Orthodox Jews that we are
intolerant. We are very tolerant, in comparison to
Zionists. Let somebody try to say anything not in
agreement to Begin nnx :n: n::n:
68
. You can say a
lot not in agreement with Moshe Rabbeinu, but you
must not deny Begins theories. I am not joking. I
cant yield to that, I am not a politician.

Deciding to Live in Eretz Yisrael, continued

In short: the rise of medinas Eretz Yisrael is a very,
very important event in our history. However, it
does not mean that one should use phrases which
are irresponsible, [for instance] to say it is like krias
yom suf. Whoever said it is a big tipaish [fool]. It is an
important event, particularly as far as the survival
of the Jewish people is concerned. It helps a great
deal, because otherwise there would have been a
stream of assimilationism which would have
inundated the Diaspora Jews. And we should be
thankful and grateful to HaKadosh Baruch Hu. But
this does not mean at all that one must light a
[bon]fire on Yom HaAtzmaut.

68
An expression from n:::: nox : : x: meaning that he will have a
judgment of death immediately placed upon him.

2+1
This mitzvah is not absolute, as far as its mandatory
character is concerned. Its not absolute. If through
yishuv Eretz Yisrael I wouldnt lose and I dont
mean lose materially, but lose as far as my spiritual
influence is concerned, my contribution which I
hope to make, which each of us hopes to make to
the survival of knesses Yisrael if I would
accomplish more, or even as much, as here, there is
a mitzvah of yishuv. If I feel, for reasons of language
or for so many reasons, that in Eretz Yisrael my
influence will be diminished, restricted, so my job is
to stay here.

In this regard, I subscribe to the opinion of the
Lubavitcher Rebbe.
69
He said it and hes right.
Nevertheless, even though he said it, he sent many
more people to Eretz Yisrael than went in aliyah. Im
not a Lubavitcher chassid [audience laughter], but
whatever is true is true. If a Jew has got to be in
Africa, in South Africa, in Australia, and his
presence is important there, then hes got to stay
there. Ki li kol haaretz.

I know that you are confused. The problem is that
the choice was presented to you in a crude manner:
either you are a good Jew or not a good Jew. Who
wants to be a bad Jew? But dont let yourself be

69
Encouraging people to go wherever they could do the most good, even
if it turns out to not be Eretz Yisrael.

2+2
confused. Not by hallel with a bracha, not with a
haftorah, not where personal problems are
concerned.

The Rambam says in Hilchos Shmittah vYovel that
Levi is the army of HaKadosh Baruch Hu.
70
What
does that mean? We are obligated, duty-bound, to
defend knesses Yisrael. To be or not to be, knesses
Yisrael. Let us not fool ourselves. The Orthodox in
America has not accomplished as much as we are
sometimes inclined to assume. We are a small
group, better organized and mobilized than most,
and capable of passing on the mesora. But it is a very
small group, numerically, in terms of percentage.
The vast bulk of the Jewish community is on the
verge, the brink, of complete assimilation. And you
have to defend knesses Yisrael from complete
assimilationism. We need soldiers in America as
much as in Eretz Yisrael, because the danger in
America is more pronounced, more threatening.

It is ridiculous to tell a young man, who does a
good job, or has prepared or trained himself to do a
good job [here in the U.S., that he must instead go to
;x :xc: ]. Good job means to spread Torah, or to
lead an exemplary life which serves as an example
to others through personal contact - there are many
ways to convert and educate Jews. I am not giving

70
no::c ::::: :: : ::

2+3
up on American Jews. If I feel that in my town, or in
my village, I will accomplish a lot, and when I come
to Eretz Yisrael so I or my influence will be reduced
to zero, my place is here, not there.

Some who went to Eretz Yisrael achieved the same
objectives they would have in the Diaspora. But
only some! I know of many who fail. They dont
admit it. Its nice on their part not to admit it.

We have a right to figure out, a judgment court of
equity. Bassar vchalav has a Shulchan Aruch shishim
or not shishim, the quantities determine [it].
71
Here it
is more a davar shbmachshavah, a davar shtalui blev.
Dont make decisions hastily. We are in America
short of talmiday chachamim who can help us restore
the prestige of Torah shbal peh. Some have
accomplished a great deal. Some have not.

On the other hand again, I emphasize - Eretz
Yisrael is an important gain, something very
significant, which will help us simplify our tasks.

Medinas Yisrael Achieving its Goal for Am Yisrael

If Eretz Yisraels significance is as a bulwark against
shmad, it is fair to say that the extent to which Eretz

71
n:: nv: deals with how much it takes for a non-kosher food to become
batel (typically 1 in 60, i.e. c:cc).

2++
Yisrael becomes a stronger reality, the strength of that
goal -

Its not shmad. If Eretz Yisrael will promote yahadus
and help yahadus to survive, then Eretz Yisrael will
be achieving its goal. If, on the contrary, it
undermines our loyalty and faithfulness to yahadus,
then I would have no use for Eretz Yisrael.
Fortunately, Eretz Yisrael helps. It could have helped
a lot more, but it helps.
72

Yom HaShoah

Is there any place for a Yom HaShoah commemoration?

I am very bad as far as aveilus is concerned. Thats
one of the reason why I have not been elected a
pulpit rabbi. Tisha bAv Rashi in Shmuel Bais says
all yimay aveilus, pertaining to all disastrous events
which took place in our history, all expressions of
aveilus should take place on Tisha bAv, not a
separate Yom HaShoah. Rashi says it.

72
For instance, all marriage and divorce in modern Israel is governed by
halachah. There are also numerous laws promoting shabbos adherence in
public and in principle, although there are exemptions. It is also officially
illegal to sell pork in many municipalities, under a 1956 law. In addition
to the psychological and morale benefits, the state also gives millions of
dollars to support yeshivos and schools.

2+5
Not in Shmuel Bais, excuse me, its in Divrei
HaYamim
73
.

Should we say special kinos?

The old kinos you already finished? [audience
laughter] You dont understand them? I can narrate
the kinos very easily. There are enough kinos to
cover - rachmanah litzlan - any kind of disaster.

Ill be frank with you - you have a funny approach.
To write tefilos who has a right to compose tefilos?
Chazal say that the tefilos of shemoneh esrei had nx:
c:cv: c::;: cn:: n:: c:x:::
74
[compose them]. Why
did the tanah say n:: c:x::: ? Say [instead] nx:
c:cv: c::;: :c:x: no:: n::::n . It was to tell us that had
Chagai, Zecharia, and Malachi - who were neviim -
had they not been involved in the chibur hatefilos, in
the composition of the tefilos, Ezra wouldnt have
dared to write it. Because Ezra is not a navi. Ezra is
gadol kMoshe Rabbeinu, Chazal say about him
75
; but
still, to write a tefilah, only a navi can do that. A
person who has not communicated with HaKadosh
Baruch Hu doesnt know how to write a tefilah, how

73
See c " : ::: c:::n : n: : n: : " n " c:n:: ;:n: " :
::::c ; cn: c:c vs n:::: cnc c::::;: c::::: :v v:x:n cn c::::: n: vsn ::v x::::
nvcn: :x: c:::::c n:::; :v c:::nn n::::: :v:xc :::::: ;: ;::::: :v n:: :n:cx:
x:::: ) c:o::c : " x ( :nn: ;n :xc:: :::: ) cc ( n::n: n:: nn:: ::v::n nv:x c::: n:c:
74
:::: n :: " : nx: c:cv: c::;: cn:: n:: c:x::: ::;:n n:::c ncv n::: :v :on "
75
;::n:o x: " : ::x n:n x:v ;n::nc n:n :v ::: :xc:: , x::::x ) x: ( :::; nc: "

2+6
to converse with HaKadosh Baruch Hu. A tefilah
means a du siach, a dialogue. Thats why Chazal say
cn:: n:: c:x::: . If not for the presence of kamah
neviim, they could not have composed shemoneh
esrei.

The question youll ask me is, what about the piyut?
I dont know. But the piyutim were written by
people who were chachmei Yisrael; it was accepted
by the knesses Yisrael; and the fact that knesses Yisrael
has accepted throughout the ages, to such an extent
that we say piyutim even during shemoneh esrei,
interrupt even the brachos of krias shema, be
integrated in the machzor only the knesses Yisrael
can do that. Throughout the ages. " cx ;:x c:x::: ;n -
::: c:x::: ;n "
76
But youre not going to tell me that
some literary boy who knows how to manipulate
Hebrew phrases will write kinos for me, and Ill say
his kinos. Its not just composition, its not just
religious literature.

Those people whose mothers and fathers were
ready to give their lives, whose members of their
families gave their lives, the survivors. Dont forget
you are making one mistake, [confusing] between
the disaster which happened in the 40s, and the
crusades. In the 40s they had no breirah, no

76
c:no: :o .

2+7
choice.
77
They are also kedoshim. The gemara in
Sanhedrin says that if one is killed because he is a
Jew, these are considered kedoshim, kadosh
78
. But you
understand very well that those of Magencia
[Mayence], Spiers, and Worms, who had a choice -
all they had to do was just acknowledge the cross,
nothing else, just kiss the cross and they could
remain in their homes. Anashim, nashim, yeladim vtaf
[Men women and children] went out and told the
enemy we are not ready to surrender, and they
were killed those people had a right to write the
kinos. I dont know such people nowadays.
79

This artificial production of tefilos - and some people
imitate and do a good job - but it doesnt mean
every literature piece should be integrated into sefer
hatefilah. The sefer hatefilah is a du siach dialogue
between man and God. Only people who know
how to conduct, engage, in this dialogue can
compose. Thats why I am opposed to all kinds of
literary productions.

Kinos is a tefilah?

77
Referring here to those killed by the Nazis in 1940s Europe.
78
See ;::n:o :v . , and the :: " c :::o: n:nn n : : , where he interprets the ncv
:::n n:::: as having died :v c:::; n ' even though they were not given the
choice of conversion rather than death. See also the : " ; :n::: n : x .
79
Magencia, Spiers, and Worms were three communities that were
wiped out during the First Crusade in 1096, after refusing to convert to
Christianity. A piyut (" :c:nn :::: ") is said on Tishah BAv in
commemoration of their sacrifice.

2+8
Kinos is a part of the haftorah. The kinos on tisha bav
is a continuation of the haftorah. :x;: n::::;::
n::x::n:.
80
The haftorah is the kinos.

What about the new nacheim they introduced after the
Six Day War?

Who introduced? R. Akiva Eiger? [audience laughter]
I told them fifty times not to touch the nacheim. As
long as the beis hamikdash is not on the Har Habayis
in Yerushalayim, you can say the whole nacheim.
Yerushalayim will be consoled and comforted at the
time when the beis hamikdash will be rebuilt, for
Yerushalayim is not a city, it is the beis hamikdash. As
long as the beis hamikdash is in debris, you may say:
" cn: n ' nx :::x ;::s nx: :::x c::c:: nx: :vn n::xn n:nn:
n::::n: n:::cn: "
It is the beis hamikdash. The destiny of Yerushalayim
is the restoration of the beis hamikdash. If one doesnt
understand it, so he writes new tefilos. But this is not
only wrong, it is a chutzpah.

Rebuilt Yerushalayim Eschatology?

Is the destiny of Yerushalayim closer to fulfillment since
the hakamas hamedinah?

80
:n::: o : :o :
" n: :x n ' n:x:s :::::nn :x;: n::::;:: n::x::n: :x: n:::nn :n:c n:x::n: "

2+9
I will give you the answer which hamelech
hamoshiach gave to R. Yehoshua ben Levi. The
gemara in Sanhedrin tells us that he met the melech
hamoshiach.
81
He asked him, n::x: :nx : ? - When
are you coming, finally? He answered " c::n "
[today].

[to which R. Yehoshua responded:] " c::n ? "!
[incredulously; is he really coming today?!]

[Moshiach answered:] c::n - cx ::;: :v:cn [I am
coming today - if you listen to Hashems words].
This depends upon the bnei Yerushalayim, upon the
state of Israel, how they will guide their destiny. I
have no knowledge of the city, but we know the
geulah depends upon us.

There is a very pressing matter. In this yeshiva there is a
very big problem, this year especially, with cheating and
other -

This is not a Yom HaAtzmaut issue. Yom HaAtzmaut
is dedicated to very exalted matters [audience
laughter].

If the bnei Yerushalayim have it in their hands to effect
the geulah

81
;::n:o ns .

250
Not [just] the bnei Yerushalayim! The entire knesses
Yisrael!
82

OK, all knesses Yisrael, and clearly that destiny is
based on the extent to which we adhere to Torah and are
marbitz Torah. Im trying to bring together the things
that you said. You also said the major contribution of
Eretz Yisrael is to stand against assimilation. If thats the
case, then the extent to which Eretz Yisrael strengthens
itself in that area is the extent to which, first of all, klal
Yisrael stands to bring the geulah faster; and, second of
all, the extent to which the purpose in general is served.
Is that the correct conclusion?

That the task of the knesses Yisrael is to accelerate the
role of the geulah, yes, I agree with you.

And is that task facilitated by strengthening-

Facilitated, yes. Eretz Yisrael plays an important
role, I would say in defending and retaining the
integrity and identity of the knesses Yisrael. I
wouldnt say in bringing the geulah. That I dont
know. I want to be careful with you.

82
i.e, the phrase bnei Yerushalayim used earlier was not meant to be
taken literally. It refers to all of knesses Yisrael.

251
Living in Egypt

The Rambam lived in Cairo as opposed to Eretz Yisrael.
Living in Egypt is a lav. Does this mean that, just like we
can decide whether to perform the mitzvah of yishuv
haaretz based on our particular situation, we can also
decide to violate a mitzvas lo taasay depending on our
particular situation?

The Radvaz writes n:n: ::n :::v he didnt
understand [how the Rambam could do that].
83

So you could

No, no, there is a lav. But there are certain
exceptions: ata chozair lprakmatia, ata chozair
lmilchama.
84
Why the Rambam lived in Cairo, I have
no answer now. But it has nothing to do with this
problem, with our conversation.

Deciding to Live in Eretz Yisrael, continued again

If a person considering aliyah should take into
consideration the good he would do here in America-

Not only America, wherever he is.

83
:: " : :v :: " c :: n;:nn c:::: n : :
84
:: " c c:::: n : n - o

252
-should such a consideration take into account choosing a
profession also?

I believe so. Whatever one does.

If somebody feels in America that he is in a strangers
country, but in Eretz Yisrael he feels at home-

So let him go to Eretz Yisrael.
If he feels like that, I would anyway investigate,
examine him [audience laughter].

Basically the decision is an intuitive one. The major
decisions are intuitive ones
85
. But dont be in a haste
to arrive at this decision, which affects ones life.

Does the Rav feel that the personality of the Jewish people
has been adversely affected by the fact that political
sovereignty has been exercised by others?

I dont understand you want us to take over
sovereignty in America, too? [audience laughter] We
are in no state to do it!

85
Although halachah guides us in many aspects of life - what to eat,
drink, and say, what one can and cannot do as far as shabbos, monetary
dealings etc. still the major life decisions are left to man. Each one of us
must decide on his own the path he will choose in life. :n:::x ;: nc: :::c
:: xn c: is but a general guide to find something that contributes to society
and is fitting before Hashem. Each of us must intuitively find the path
which is right for us.

253
I understand the Rav mentioned that many of the
maamaray Chazal have been turned into slogans, such
as avira dEretz Yisrael machkim, and have been
denigrated as a result. But what is the nature of the
statement itself?

Ain Torah kToras Eretz Yisrael let us imagine that I
say a svara in a Tosfos regarding maaser sheini, and
some Rosh Yeshiva in Eretz Yisrael says it. Let us
imagine that I say it better. So you cannot say ain
Torah kToras Eretz Yisrael. But if the svaros are equal,
or the Eretz Yisrael-dika svara is better than the chutz
laretz-dika svara, then you say ain Torah kToras Eretz
Yisrael [audience laughter]. A svara is measured by its
inner worth. Whether the svara was formulated
here, or in Brisk, or in Volozhin, or near the kosel
hamaaravi, it doesnt matter. If both the svaros are
good and wonderful, and you cannot distinguish
between them, then Eretz Yisrael is America.

To what extent should a ben Torah -

Whoever has a better Rosh Yeshiva and better
chaveirim.


25+
Responsibility to Fight in Tzahal

What about sacrificing learning and teaching Torah to
fight in Tzahal?

That youll ask Eretz Yisrael rabbanim. In America
the shailah is not acute.

Is it right that Americans sit and learn here while Israelis
are dying in Tzahal?

Those events would have happened anyway.
Whether, rachmanah litzlan, an Israeli gets killed, or
an American Jew gets killed, there is no difference.
Speaking halachically, there is no halachah that I have
got to take my place in order to defend Eretz Yisrael.
Halachically you are chayuv bgufo [obligated
personally
86
], but this doesnt come into
consideration. You are speaking about two dinim
from mitzvas yishuv haaretz.

Conclusion

Whatever I said, dont consider them as piskei
halachah. I am not a posek. It is simply sharing my
thoughts with you. If you feel that I am wrong, I
wouldnt feel offended. And if you feel that I am

86
As opposed to a communal obligation, or to an obligation related to an
object and not the person.

255
right, so youll give more time to Torah and study
harder. But its not piskei halachah, its not advice, its
not that. Its simply thinking aloud [hence the title
Ed.] and sharing. Because I think many times I
told you about those problems. It is thinking aloud
and sharing ones thoughts with others. That is
what I said. Not piskei halachah. If you feel Im
wrong completely, I wont feel insulted or offended.
OK [concluding the shiur].

Ravsolovetichikyomhaatzmaut

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