1:14-cv-00347 #14

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO

WESTERN DIVISION

MICHELLE GIBSON, et al.,

Plaintiffs,

vs.

LANCE HIMES, et al.,

Defendants.

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Case No. 1:14-cv-347

Judge: Michael R. Barrett

DECLARATION OF JENNIFER
BRANCH IN SUPPORT OF
PLAINTIFFS MOTION FOR
DECLARATORY JUDGMENT AND
PERMANENT INJUNCTIVE
RELIEF

I, Jennifer L. Branch, pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 1746, declare under the penalty of perjury
under the laws of the United States of America that the following is true and correct:
1. I am trial counsel for Plaintiffs in the above action.
2. I submit this declaration in support of Plaintiffs Motion for Declaratory Judgment and
Permanent Injunctive Relief and supporting memorandum.
3. Attached to this declaration as Exhibits A through G are the expert declarations previously
submitted and considered by the Court in Obergefell v. Wymyslo, 1:13-CV-501 (2013) (Docs.
41-47). Part one of this filing has Exhibit A attached. Part two has exhibits B through G
attached.
Exhibit A Expert Declaration with exhibits of Susan J. Becker, submitted to this
Court in Obergefell v. Wymyslo, 1:13-CV-501 (2013) (Doc. 41).
Exhibit B Expert Declaration with exhibits of George Chauncey, submitted to this
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Exhibit C Expert Declaration with exhibits of Megan Fulcher, submitted to this
Exhibit D Expert Declaration with exhibits of Joanna L. Grossman, submitted to this
Exhibit E Expert Declaration with exhibits of Bernard L. McKay, submitted to this
Exhibit F Expert Declaration with exhibits of Letitia Anne Peplau, submitted to this
Exhibit G Expert Declaration with exhibits of Gary M. Segura, submitted to this

4. Attached to the Motion for Permanent Injunction is Exhibit 1. It is a copy of a sample
Certified Abstract of Marriage which was obtained from the Hamilton County Probate Court
website and redacted by me to maintain the privacy of the applicants.
Dated: June 18, 2014
s/ Jennifer L. Branch
Jennifer L. Branch
Attorney for Plaintiffs

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I hereby certify that on June 18, 2014, a copy of the foregoing pleading was filed
electronically. Notice of this filing will be sent to all parties for whom counsel has entered an
appearance by operation of the Courts electronic filing system. Parties may access this filing
through the Courts system. I further certify that a copy of the foregoing pleading and the Notice
of Electronic Filing has been served by ordinary U.S. mail upon all parties for whom counsel has
not yet entered an appearance electronically.
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/s/Jennifer L. Branch
Trial Attorney for Plaintiffs
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO
WESTERN DIVISION

JAMES OBERGEFELL, et al.
Plaintiffs,

v.

THEODORE E. WYMYSLO, et. al.,

Defendants.

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Civil Action No. 1:13-cv-501

Judge Timothy S. Black

EXPERT DECLARATION OF SUSAN
J. BECKER IN SUPPORT OF
PLAINTIFFS MOTION FOR
DECLARATORY JUDGMENT AND
PERMANENT INJUNCTION

I, Susan J. Becker, pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 1746, declare under the penalty of perjury
under the laws of the United States of America that the following are my true and correct
opinions :
Introduction to Expert Opinions Offered
1. The expert opinions offered in this declaration document the historic and continuing
animus directed toward lesbian and gay Ohioans.
2. Among other pernicious consequences, animus directed at gay and lesbian Ohioans
resulted in Ohio legislators making substantial amendments to Ohio Revised Code
3101.01 and 3101.05 in January 2004. Animus also motivated the 2004 ballot
initiative that added Article XV, 11 to Ohios constitution. The 2004 statutory and
constitutional amendments prohibit marriages of same-sex couples from occurring in this
state and prohibit Ohio from recognizing marriages validly entered in other states by
same-sex couples.
3. Ohio Con. Article XV, 11 further prohibits the state and its political subdivisions from
creating or recognizing a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that
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intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance or effect of marriage. This
prohibits same-sex couples from petitioning any level of government in Ohio for other
types of relationship recognition - including civil unions and domestic partnerships - that
would allow same-sex couples some of the legal rights and obligations automatically
bestowed on heterosexual married couples.
Expert Background and Qualifications
4. I have actual knowledge of the matters stated in this declaration, and could testify to these
matters if called as a witness.
5. My background, experience, and publications are provided in detail in my curriculum
vitae attached as Exhibit A to this declaration. A brief summary is provided here.
6. Upon completion of my judicial clerkship with the Honorable Robert B. Krupansky of
the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit in 1985, I became an associate at the law
firm then known as Jones, Day, Reavis and Pogue (now Jones, Day). During five years
as a Jones, Day associate I litigated cases pending before administrative agencies, state
and federal trial and appellate courts, and the U.S. Supreme Court. I was invited to join
the faculty of Cleveland State Universitys Cleveland-Marshall of Law in 1990 and since
that time have been a full-time professor of law.
7. I regularly teach Civil Procedure, Legal Profession (ethics), Remedies, and other
practice-oriented courses. Over the past 13 years I have taught a course titled Sexual
Orientation and the Law eight times. I designed this course to provide students with an
inter-disciplinary lens (i.e. history, medical and social sciences, political science, religion,
popular culture, etc.) through which they explore the evolution of law as it has
disadvantaged and continues to disadvantage lesbians, gay men, bisexual and transgender
(LGBT) people. I have collected and created all of the materials for the course and
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have substantially revised and updated the materials each time I teach the course. My
course materials include Ohio developments as well as national and international matters.
8. Much of my scholarship addresses the animus historically directed at the LGBT
population as well as the historic and continuing rationales for that discrimination.
Examples include The Politicization of Judicial Elections and its Effect on Judicial
Independence and LGBT Rights: An Overview of LGBT Equality and Judicial
Independence, 60 CLEVELAND STATE LAW REVIEW 466 (2012); Many are Chilled but
Few are Frozen: How Transformative Learning in Popular Culture, Christianity, and
Science will Lead to the Eventual Demise of Legally Sanctioned Discrimination Against
Sexual Minorities in the United States, 14 AM.U. J. GENDER & LAW 177-252 (2006)
Tumbling Towers as Turning Points: Will 9/11 Usher in a New Civil Rights Era for Gay
Men and Lesbians in the United States?; 9 WILLIAM & MARY JOURNAL OF WOMEN AND
THE LAW 207 (2003); Constitutional Classifications and the Search for the Gay Gene,
Symposium: Is There a Pink Slip In Your Genes? 16 CLEVE. ST. JOU. LAW & HEALTH 27
(2001-2002); Second Parent Adoptions by Same-Sex Couples in Ohio: An Unsettled and
Unsettling Area of Law, 48 CLEVE. ST. L. REV. 101 (2001); Court-Created Boundaries
Between a Visible Lesbian Mother and Her Children, XII WISCONSIN WOMENS L. J. 331
(1997); and Child Sexual Abuse Allegations Against a Lesbian or Gay Parent in a
Custody or Visitation Dispute: Battling the Overt and Insidious Bias of the Experts and
Judges, 74 DENVER UNIVERSITY L. REV. 75 (1996).
9. In addition to teaching and scholarship, I have also maintained a modest pro bono
practice since joining the Cleveland-Marshall College of Law faculty in 1990. The
majority of my pro bono work consists of providing legal advice to same-sex couples and
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gay and lesbian individuals about their rights or as more appropriately their lack of
rights - under Ohio law.
10. The statements set forth in this declaration are based on my own research, more than two
decades as a practicing lawyer advising lesbian and gay individuals and couples in Ohio,
and the work of other attorneys, scholars, and authors, including those cited in the
bibliography attached as Exhibit B.
11. I have been retained by counsel for Plaintiffs in this litigation on a pro-bono basis.
Summary of Opinions
12. It is my opinion that animus directed at lesbians and gay Ohioans served as the primary
motivating force for Ohios ban on same-sex marriages, civil unions and domestic
partnerships. Animus is also the motivating factor for Ohios refusal to recognize same-
sex marriages legally entered in other states, while at the same time recognizing
marriages from other states that would be void if entered in Ohio, such as marriage
between first cousins, marriages between spouses younger than Ohios age of consent,
and common-law marriages.
13. As used here, animus has the meaning attributed to it by the United States Supreme
Court, to wit, discriminations of an unusual character motivated by hostile intent or
improper purpose and directed at a historically disfavored minority. Windsor v. United
States, __ U.S. __, 133 S. Ct. 2675, 2693 (2013), Romer v. Evans, 517 U. S. 620, 633
(1996).
14. The Bibliography attached as Exhibit B and additional Exhibits referenced throughout
this declaration support the expert opinions offered.

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History of Discrimination in Ohio against Lesbian and Gay Citizens
15. Lesbian and gay Ohioans have suffered from the same modes and severity of
government-sanctioned and government-ignored discrimination that are documented on a
national level by Professor George Chauncey. The examples of Ohio discrimination
provided below are illustrative rather than exhaustive. The specific issue of marriage
discrimination is discussed in the section immediately following this one.
16. Neither Ohios primary anti-discrimination law, R.C. 4112.02, nor any other statute
provides protection or recourse for gay and lesbian Ohioans discriminated against in
employment, housing, or public accommodation. Some Ohio counties and municipalities
have enacted employment discrimination provisions that cover private employers. Only
about 20 percent of Ohioans live within these jurisdictions, and the remedies provided are
extremely limited. Ohio courts do not recognize a common law public policy exception to
the at-will employment doctrine for gay and lesbian workers terminated due to their
sexual orientation. Ohio courts do not recognize a cause of action based on sexual
harassment when the harassing behavior is due to the plaintiff-victims sexual orientation.
17. Ohio courts allow an individual gay man or lesbian to adopt a child, but only recognize
one legal parent of a child being raised by a same-sex couple. Ohio courts have rejected
models embraced by other states to recognize both members of a same-sex couple as
parents of the children they are jointly raising. Such models include de facto and
psychological parental status, and second-parent adoptions.
18. Instead, if both members of a same-sex couple are jointly parenting a child who is the
biological or adopted child of one member of the couple, Ohio courts have, somewhat
bizarrely, interpreted the step-parent provisions of Ohios adoption statutes as permitting
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the other member of the couple to adopt the child only if the biological or adoptive parent
terminates his or her parental rights to the child. See In re Adoption of Jane Doe, 130
Ohio App.3d 288, 719 N.E.2d 1071 (Ohio App. 9th Ninth Dist. 1998), appeal denied 85
Ohio St. 3d 1467, 709 N.E.2d 173 (1999). Termination of the existing parents legal
relationship with the child allows the partner to establish a legally recognized parent-
child relationship in the child, but still leaves the child with only one legally recognized
parent.
19. In another unique interpretation of Ohio statutes governing parental rights, the Supreme
Court of Ohio decreed in In re Bonfield, 97 Ohio St.3d 387, 2002-Ohio-6660, 780 N.E.2d
241(2002), that same-sex partners may enter into a co-custody agreement. The partners
must jointly submit the proposed agreement to a juvenile court and convince the court co-
custody serves the best interest of the child. As a co-custodian, the non-legally
recognized parent has the limited rights articulated in the custody agreement, such as
signing field trip forms for school, making certain medical decisions, and possessing the
standing necessary to seek visitation with the child if the couple separates. Co-custody
does not, however, create the full rights and responsibilities of a legally recognized child-
parent relationship. In addition, a same-sex couples status as co-custodians does not
create any legally-recognized relationship for the couple that provides the benefits or
responsibilities of a legally recognized marriage.
20. Existing Ohio law does not recognize any status that confers rights, benefits or
obligations on same-sex couples. Equality advocates are forbidden by Ohio Con. Art.
XV, 11 from petitioning the Ohio legislature for the creation of any such status.
Domestic partner registries in Athens, Toledo, Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, and
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Cleveland Heights confer absolutely no rights or benefits on couples who register.
Registration may be deemed by some private employers as evidence of a domestic
partnership for the purpose of providing health or other benefits to an employees same-
sex partner, but the decision to offer benefits are and the type of proof necessary to
establish domestic partner status remains entirely with the employer and is in no way
mandated or controlled by the city ordinances that establish each registry. Ohio courts
have upheld the registries against claims that they violate Ohios Constitutional ban on
recognition of same-sex marriage precisely because the registries confer no legal status or
benefits to same-sex couples.
21. Ohio R.C. 3313.666 requires school districts to develop policies to prevent harassment,
intimidation, or bullying, but despite multiple, severe attacks on gay students in recent
years, the law does not require districts to enact specific policies to protect lesbian or gay
students.
22. Ohio R.C. 2927.12 does not include gay men or lesbians in its hate crime legislation.
23. In sum, Ohio law historically has, and continues to, subject gay and lesbian Ohioans and
their children to these and other inequities and indignities without legal protection or
recourse:
Denied access to or evicted from housing;
Denied service in a restaurant, hotel, or other place of public accommodation;
Denied recognition as victims of hate-motivated crimes;
Denied adequate protection in public schools that fail to create or to enforce
sufficient anti-gay bullying policies, resulting in the infliction of serious physical
and emotional injuries;
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Denied employment regardless of qualifications for the job sought;
Terminated from employment without cause and without substantive law or
general due process protections afforded other minorities;
Required to repeatedly advocate for very limited legal protections and recognition
(e.g. the domestic partnership registry in Cleveland, employment protections in
Cincinnati), and then required to defend such legislation against repeated legal
and political attacks including ballot initiatives campaigns;
Denied the opportunity to adopt their partners children, thus leaving their
families exposed to legal and other financial disadvantages not experienced by
their heterosexual counterparts;
Forced to rely on co-custodial status when raising children together rather than
a legally recognized familial status;
Precluded from jointly adopting a child unrelated to either same-sex partner
regardless of the childs need for a stable, permanent home and the ability of the
couple to provide that home;
Denied local and state tax benefits available to heterosexual married couples;
Denied access to entitlement programs (welfare benefits, food stamps, Medicaid,
etc.) available to heterosexual married couples and their families;
Barred by hospital staff and/or relatives from their long-time partners bedsides
during serious and final illnesses due to lack of legally-recognized relationship
status;
Denied the remedy of loss of consortium when a partner is seriously injured
through the acts of another;
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Denied the remedy of a wrongful death claim when a partner is fatally injured
through the wrongful acts of another;
Excluded from inheriting a partners possessions through Ohios intestate
succession laws; and
Evicted from their homes following a partners death because same-sex partners
are in Ohio considered complete strangers to each other in the eyes of the law.
24. Despite the extensive nature of this list, the disadvantages, disenfranchisements and
penalties outlined above are illustrative rather than exhaustive. As is obvious from this
summary, many of these legally sanctioned inequities are grounded in Ohios refusal to
recognize same-sex marriages validly entered in other states.
25. The injuries Ohio inflicts on same-sex couples are significantly compounded by the U.S.
Supreme Courts decision in Windsor v. United States, __ U.S. __, 133 S.Ct. 2675,
(2013), requiring the federal government to recognize same-sex marriage for federal
benefits. Some of these federal benefits will be realized by same-sex couples only if they
live in a state that recognizes their marriages. Ohio law denying recognition of same-sex
couples thus withholds both state and federal benefits from same-sex couples.
26. As explained below, changes to Ohios statutory scheme in 2004 and the state
constitutional amendment enacted through the 2004 ballot initiative campaign continue to
perpetuate these disadvantages, disenfranchisements and penalties at the state and federal
level. Both changes to Ohio law resulted from, and continue to foster, animus directed at
gay and lesbian Ohioans.

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Animus Leading to Legislative Amendments to Ohio R.C. 3101 Denying Recognition of
Same-Sex Marriages and Other Forms of Relationship Recognition

27. In 1993, the Supreme Court of Hawaii ruled in Baehr v. Lewin that a ban on same-sex
marriage violated Hawaiis equal rights amendment. This decision shocked individuals
and groups whose members opposed marriage equality primarily on moral and religious
grounds.
28. By 1996, these individuals and organizations successfully lobbied Congress to pass the
Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) by arguing that same-sex marriage posed an
immediate threat to traditional marriage and traditional family values. DOMA
banned the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriage and declared that
states did not have to give full faith and credit to same-sex marriages licensed by other
states.
29. The 1999 decision by Vermonts highest court which resulted in creation of civil unions
in that state (Baker v. State) and the 2003 Massachusettss decision legalizing same-sex
marriage in that commonwealth (Goodridge v. Dept. of Health) threw more fuel on the
anti-equality marriage fire.
30. Prior to 2004, Ohio law limited marriage to opposite sex couples. R.C. 3101.01(A)
provided that marriage was reserved for [m]ale persons of the age of eighteen years,
and female persons of the age of sixteen years . In addition, the Ohio constitution
contained no broad equality provisions similar to those which supported the same-sex
marriage decisions in Hawaii, Vermont and Massachusetts. There was no evidence that
the justices then serving on the Supreme Court of Ohio would vote in favor of same-sex
marriage or any other form of relationship recognition should the marriage equality issue
come before Ohios highest court.
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31. Legislative amendments introduced in the Ohio General Assembly in 1997, 1999 and
2001 proposed to more explicitly deny same-sex couples the opportunity to marry or to
obtain recognition of their marriages performed in other states. (Exhibit C: Unsuccessful
Ohio DOMAs 1997, 1999, 2001). Both the 1997 proposals in H.B. 160 and the 1999
version in S.B. 240 and H.B. 547 recognized the unwavering stance Ohio courts had
taken against same-sex marriage. S.B. 240, for example, listed the holdings of the Ohio
Supreme Court in State v. Gans (1958), 168 Ohio St. 174, 177-178, the Court of Appeals
for Franklin County in Liston v. Pyles (1997), 1997 Ohio App. Lexis 3627, the Court of
Appeals for Summit County in Dial v. Dial (1993), 92 Ohio App. 3d 513, 515, and in
Gajovski v. Gajovski (1991), 81 Ohio App. 3d 11, the Court of Appeals for Cuyahoga
County in Irwin v. Lupardus (1980), No. 41379, and the Stark County Probate Court in In
re Ladrach (1987), 32 Ohio Misc. 2d 6 as confirming that the law of this state does not
permit persons of the same sex to marry.
32. In 2001, the Ohio House passed H.B. 234 by a vote of 67 to 29. That legislation proposed
to more explicitly limit marriages performed or recognized in Ohio to those entered by
opposite sex couples and to place additional restrictions on any type of relationship
recognition for same-sex couples in Ohio. Unlike the 1997 and 1999 versions of the
proposed legislation, H.B. 234 omitted any reference to the substantial body of existing
Ohio case law restricting marriage to opposite sex couples. The Ohio Senate did not take
up H.B. 234.
33. In 2002, the Supreme Court of Ohio affirmed that same-sex marriages are illegal in
Ohio. In re Bicknell, 96 Ohio St. 3d 76, 2002 Ohio 3615, 14.
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34. In September 2003, Ohio Representatives Bill Seitz, Thomas Brinkman and 41 of their
colleagues co-sponsored H.B. 272. (Exhibit D). H.B. 272 mirrored failed H.B. 234. The
Preamble to H.B. 272 identified the drafters intent to specifically declare that same-sex
marriages are against the strong public policy of the state and to declare that the
recognition or extension by the state of the specific statutory benefits of legal marriage to
nonmarital relationships is against the public policy of the state.
35. Section 1 of H.B. 272 proposed to achieve these objectives by adding the following
language to the Ohio Revised Code:
a. 3101.01(A) providing that a marriage may only be entered into by one man
and one woman;
b. 3101.01(C)(1) providing that [a]ny marriage between persons of the same sex is
against the strong public policy of this state and shall have no legal force or
effect in this state and, if attempted to be entered into in this state, is void ab initio
and shall not be recognized by this state;
c. 3101.01(C)(2) providing that [a]ny marriage entered into by persons of the
same sex in any other jurisdiction shall be considered and treated in all respects as
having no legal force or effect in this state and shall not be recognized by this
state; and
d. 3101.01(C)(3) providing that recognition or extension by the state of the
specific statutory benefits of a legal marriage to nonmarital relationships between
persons of the same sex or different sexes is against the strong public policy of
this state and that [a]ny public act, record, or judicial proceeding of this state, as
defined in section 9.82 of the Revised Code, that extends the specific statutory
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benefits of legal marriage to nonmarital relationships between persons of the same
sex or different sexes is void ab initio.
36. Section 3(B) of H.B. 272 further articulated the General Assemblys intent to clarify that
relationships that are intended as substitutes for marriage, including but not limited to
civil unions as provided for in [Vermont], will not be recognized in this state.
37. H.B. 272 is a class of legislation commonly known as a Super Defense of Marriage
Act, or Super DOMA. H.B. 272 fits that classification because it far exceeded
limiting marriage to same-sex couples by further outlawing recognition of same-sex
marriages performed in other states and depriving gay and lesbian individuals and
couples the right to petition the government for any alternative form of comprehensive,
state-wide relationship recognition such as civil unions or domestic partnerships.
38. The Ohio House of Representatives considered H.B. 272 on December 10, 2003. (Exhibit
E: H.B. 272 House of Representatives Consideration Transcript of Dec. 10, 2003. Cites to
the transcript of the House deliberation are designated as House TR.)
39. In introducing the legislation, primary sponsor Representative Bill Sietz acknowledged
that Ohio law already limits marriage to a man and a woman. House TR, p. 2. Rep.
Seitz argued, however, that the legislation was necessary to prevent the Supreme Court of
Ohio from rendering a decision similar to the Massachusetts decision of Goodridge v.
Dept. of Health, or from holding that Ohio must recognize same-sex marriages that are
valid in other states and countries. House TR, pp. 3-6.
40. Co-sponsor Representative Ron Young stated that the legislation was critically important
because were talking about a divine institution thats been given to us by God, and that
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males and females coming together in traditional marriage create the basic unit, the
building blocks of our society. House TR, p. 28-29.
41. Representative Young claimed that scientific evidence showed that children of married
partners tend to be healthier, are more creative, do better in school, and are less
involved in crime. House TR, p. 29. Young further claimed that [m]arried spouses
tend to be happier, healthier, wealthier than their counterparts. House TR, p. 29.
42. A number of members of the House Representatives spoke against H.B. 272 during the
December 10, 2013 floor debate. They presented arguments that Ohio should respect
marriage as a fundamental right for all as established in cases like Loving v. Virginia, that
the concept of opposite sex marriage preserved primarily to protect procreation was an
outdated view, that children of same-gender parents should not be treated
disadvantageously compared to their peers being raised by heterosexual due to the states
failure to recognize their parents relationship, that the possibilities of allowing civil
unions or domestic partnerships for same-sex couples should be further explored and not
excluded by this bill.
43. Representative Chris Redfern observed, for example, that [g]ays and lesbians are a part
of every Ohio family, and that [t]hey should not be shortchanged in their efforts to
better their lives and their communities. House TR, p. 42. Representative Redfern
reported that as he discussed the bill in committee with colleagues, topics such as the
potential impact of recognizing same-sex marriages on Ohios pension funds were
certainly not a question of dollars and cents, but rather a question of casting judgment
upon others, criticizing ones life and livelihood and the waythey raise their children.
House TR, p. 42.
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44. Representative Peter Ujvagi confirmed that anyone who attended any of the hearings
knows the level of intolerance that was presented to support this legislation. House TR,
p. 52. (As is typical of Ohio legislative history, no official records exist of the Ohio
House committee meetings in which H.B. 272 was discussed).
45. Representative Dale Miller agreed with Representative Ujvagis observation that the
legislation was not about the defense of marriage, because a homosexual couple is in
no way a threat to my marriage, nor a threat to anybody elses marriage. House TR,
p. 49 (Miller); pp. 51-52 (Ujvagi). Representative Miller also rejected the contention that
sexual orientation is a matter a choice, and urged that to pretend that these people dont
exist or should be treated as second-class citizens is plain wrong. House TR, p. 51.
46. Representative Joyce Beatty discussed how the tradition of marriage had changed from
the time when women had to give up their teaching jobs and other professional activities
to get married, and from when interracial marriage was outlawed. House TR, p. 55. She
also pointed out that same-sex partners arent asking for a free ride but rather equal
treatment for doing the same things we do, and further noting that passage of HB 272
would immediately adversely affect over a quarter of a million gay and lesbian
Ohioans. House TR, p. 56.
47. Following the floor discussion Ohios House of Representatives approved Ohios Super
DOMA by a vote of 69-23.
48. Prior to the Ohio Senates consideration of H.B. 272, another Ohio court confirmed that
Ohio had always restricted marriages to opposite sex couples, and provided further
evidence that Ohioans need not fear a different interpretation of Ohio law by activist
judges. In re Application for Marriage License for Nash and Barr, 11
th
Dist. Nos. 2002-
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T-0149 and 2002-T-0179, 2003-Ohio-7221 (Dec. 21, 2003), 30 (holding that Ohio
has a clear public policy that authorizes and recognizes marriages only between
members of the opposite sex.).
49. Senators Bill Harris, Louis W. Blessing, Ronald Amstutz, John Carey, Jim Jordan, Lynn
Wachtmann, Lynn Padgett and Jay Hottinger served as the sponsors of H.B. 272 in the
Ohio Senate. For reasons questioned by other senators (see, e.g., House TR, p. 58), H.B.
272 was referred to the Senate Finance and Financial Institutions Committee rather than
the Judiciary-Civil Justice Committee,
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the Committee to which previous efforts to
amend Ohios marriage statutes, including S.B. 240, had been referred.
50. The 13-member Senate Finance Committee was heavily populated by H.B. 272 sponsors.
Senator Harris chaired the Committee. Senator Carey was vice chair. Senators Blessing,
Amstutz, Padgett and Hottinger were also members of the committee.
51. Senator Bill Harris, chair of the Finance Committee, issued a notice on Thursday, January
15, 2004 that the committee would hold a hearing on the legislation on Tuesday, January
20. The 5-day notice period included a three-day weekend due to the Martin Luther King
Jr. holiday.
52. During a marathon hearing that started at 1:10 p.m. and concluded at 9:57 p.m. on
January 20, 2004, committee members heard from 30 witnesses. Senator Eric Fingerhut
estimated that maybe three members of the majority [Republican Senators] and three
members of the minority [Democratic Senators] heard most of the testimony.
53. The short notice and format of the hearing were unusual as Senate committees commonly
hear the testimony from the legislations sponsors, proponents and opponents on separate
days. See Statement of Senator Eric Fingerhut in Exhibit F: House Bill 272 Senate

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This Committee is now known as the Civil Justice Committee.
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Amendments and Consideration Transcript January 21, 2004, at p. 60. (Subsequent cites
to the deliberation by the full Senate are designated as Senate TR.)
54. As previously noted, Ohio does not retain an official legislative history of House or
Senate committee hearings. News reports, however, indicate that the testimony was at
times contentious, and featured claims from proponents that the bill was necessary to
prevent Ohio from being an enabler of homosexuality and to protect churches from
being forced to perform same-sex marriages.
55. The Senate Finance Committee approved Ohios Super DOMA in the morning of January
21, 2004, recommending two amendments. The first added language that the bills
limitations on the extension of statutory benefits of legal marriage to non-marital benefits
were inapplicable if those benefits were part of a collective bargaining agreement. The
second clarified that a common law marriage from another state or nation would continue
to be recognized as valid only if it were otherwise valid under the bill that is, only
common marriages of opposite sex couples would be recognized. (Both prior to and after
enactment of Ohios Super DOMA, Ohio only recognized common law marriages that
were formed in this state prior to October 1991 and those recognized as valid in other
states and countries.)
56. The Ohio Senate debated and passed Sub. H.B. 272 on the same day that its Finance
Committee approved the legislation.
57. During the January 21, 2004 debate, Senator Harris argued for the need for the
legislation on the grounds used by Representative Seitz in the House, i.e., that same-sex
relationship recognition would be forced on Ohio if it did not amend its statutory
language to more clearly limit marriage to one man and one woman and reject the
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possibility of other forms of relationship recognition such as civil unions. Senate TR,
pp. 2-3.
58. Other senators urging passage of the Super DOMA warned that the specter of same-sex
marriage was inevitably intertwined with the recognition of polygamy, that churches
shared responsibility with the government to regulate marriage, and that heterosexual
marriages provide a superior environment for raising children. See, e.g., Senator Jordan
Senate TR pp. 78-82; Senator Jacobson Senate TR pp. 137-38.
59. Senator Jacobson took a leading role in defending the proposed legislation. He explained
that proponents of Ohios super DOMA viewed the legislation as a recognition that
marriage between a man and a woman is the only relationship in which children can be
created, and, if theyre faithful to it, no other children can be created outside of that
marriage . Senate TR p. 138. Senator Jacobson stated that the legislation would not
interfere with the way adults choose to order their lives because [a]dults can form
household relationships after the legislation passed even though those relationships
dont have all the bells and whistles, [p]erhaps dont have all the opportunities, and
do not appear equal to everyone elses. Senate TR p. 137. Senator Jacobson further
opined that children deserve that best opportunity and we are going to help children in
whatever situation they are raised in, but that does not mean to say that because two
people would like to order their lives in a certain way we have to change the institution of
marriage just to make them feel better about their choices. Senate TR p. 139. While
some people he knew had made choices to form households in which they are working
very hard to raise loving children in a loving environment, Senator Jacobson stated that
the existence of such households does not mean to those of us who are voting yes [on
19

H.B. 272] that we have to do something to marriage to make marriage less in order to let
those people do the best they can. Senate TR p. 139.
60. Other Senators questioned the need for the legislation and its true purpose, especially in
light of its Super DOMA status. In rejecting the need to defend marriage argument,
Senator Goodman urged that we dont really need to defend ourselves from
people who are different than us. Senate TR p. 3. By passing this legislation, Senator
Goodman said, were pointing fingers at others, and thats not what we ought to be
doing. We ought to be looking at ourselves and trying to be better parents and better
husbands and better wives. And that is the way you defend marriage. Senate TR p. 41.
61. Senator Brady cautioned that whether you intended it or not, this is bigoted legislation.
and that is the way it will be seen in history. Senate TR p. 57.
62. Noting that Ohio law already restricted marriage to opposite sex couples, Senator Dann
stated that the only possible reason for passing this bill, and doing it so quickly today, in
light of the state of the union and in light of the political statements that have been made
around this country, is politics. Dann predicted that the vote would perhaps win the
bills proponents another election or two, [b]ut the price for that victory is going to be
the extension of hate throughout the state of Ohio. And everybody who reads this bill
and people affected by it are going to suffer from that hate. Senate TR p. 74-75.
63. Senator Fedor cautioned that the legislation would result in some of Ohios children
growing up and being labeled and judged, and that some of us legislators may be
sending [the message] that our priorities are hate, exclusion, and discrimination. Senate
TR p. 77.
20

64. Senator Zurz observed that Ohios existing marriage law restricted marriage to a man and
a woman, and that legislators should be more concerned about the law allowing a 16-year
old girl to marry rather than prohibiting same-sex marriage. Senate TR p. 83. Senator
Zurz characterized the legislation as motivated by politics rather than being a valid step to
protect marriage, further stating that the legislation hasnt been given enough time, it
hasnt been given the thoughtfulness that it should have been given, and we are
discriminating against people, and I really dont think thats what we came here to do.
Senate TR p. 85.
65. Senator Prentiss urged her colleagues to vote against H.B. 272, stating that [t]his bill is
not progress; its discrimination, good old fashioned discrimination. Senate TR p. 90.
She further argued: This bill is about the lack of acceptance of some by others. It
embodies a mean spirit, nonpluralism, nonpluralistic attitude that says, my way or no
way, This bill imposes one set of values not held by all [in] Ohio without regard to
diversity and without regard, even, to the U.S. Constitution which requires equal
treatment for all. Senate TR p. 94.
66. Senator DiDonato, who supported limiting marriage to opposite sex couples, opined that
H.B. 272 had crossed a line by denying benefits and hurting others, as well as fast
tracking the bill through the legislative process without providing full opportunities for
hearings and debate. Senate TR p. 105. Its a shame [this bill] ... came to the floor,
DiDonato said. Its really a shame. It should never have come to this level, not in the
style it did. Senate TR p. 111.
67. Attempts by Senators Fingerhut and Dann to limit the reach of H.R. 272 proved
unsuccessful. Senator Eric Fingerhut argued that if the legislations sole purpose was to
21

protect marriage, then additional language prohibiting the extension of any of the benefits
of marriage to same-sex couples was unnecessary and would cause significant confusion
on the legal consequences of private employers seeking to extend benefits to same-sex
couples. Senate TR p. 12-18. His amendment to remove the extraneous language failed
by a vote of 18 to 15. Senate TR p. 122. The Senate also rejected by an 18-15 vote the
amendment proposed by Senator Dann to allow unmarried public employees to take
bereavement leave following the loss of a partner, a benefit that was (and is) granted to
married employees. Senate TR p. 43.
68. The Ohio Senate passed H.B. 272 by a vote of 18-15 and returned the legislation to the
House with the two amendments recommended by the Senate Finance Committee. As
noted previously one amendment clarified that any common law marriages recognized in
Ohio must be between one man and one woman, and the other stated that the legislation
would not affect the rights of public sector employees to bargain over the terms and
conditions of their employment.
69. On February 3, 2004, the House approved Substitute H.B. 272 by a vote of 72-22.
70. Ohios Super DOMA was signed into law by Governor Bob Taft on February 6, 2004,
and became effective on May 7, 2004.
71. Despite the laws denial not only of marriage to Ohios same-sex couples but of all forms
of legal relationship recognition including civil unions and domestic partnerships,
Governor Taft denied any exclusionary impact or discriminatory intent of the legislation.
In a statement released when he signed the bill into law, Taft said that [f]irst and
foremost, this is not a law of intolerance. I do not endorse, nor does this law provide for,
discrimination against any Ohio citizen. Rather, Governor Taft claimed that the
22

legislation was necessary to reaffirm existing Ohio law with respect to our most basic,
rooted, and time-honored institution: marriage between a man and a woman. Marriage is
an essential building block of our society, an institution we must reaffirm. At a time when
parents and families are under constant attack within our social culture, it is important to
confirm and protect those environments that offer our children, and ultimately our
society, the best opportunity to thrive." (Exhibit G: Gov Taft Statement on Signing Ohio
DOMA on February 6, 2004.)
72. For obvious reasons, many people in Ohio and elsewhere and certainly gay and lesbian
Ohioans - vehemently disagreed with the claims asserted by Governor Taft and other
Ohio super DOMA supporters that the changes to Ohio law were not discriminatory in
intent or in operation. The exact opposite conclusion is supported by the unequivocal
nature of existing Ohio law limiting marriage to opposite sex couples, the legislations
sweeping prohibitions against any meaningful form of relationship recognition for same-
sex couples, the negative comments about the allegedly disastrous impact on society if
gay and lesbian couples were allowed the civil rights accompanying marital status, the
refusal of legislators to consider the compelling statements made by fellow legislators
about the impact of this legislation on gay and lesbian Ohioans, and the manner in which
Ohios super DOMA was fast-tracked through the Ohio General Assembly. Ohios super
DOMA was intended to, and does, disenfranchise gay and lesbian individuals and
couples due to the animus of the Ohio legislators who voted for the legislation and the
governor who signed the bill into law.
23

73. The animus that fueled the fast-track passage of Ohios super DOMA intensified rather
dissipated following enactment of the legislation, resulting in passage of the Ohio
constitutional amendment discussed below.
Animus Resulting in Passage of Ohio Constitutional Amendments
Denying Recognition of Same-Sex Marriages

74. In theory, the ballot initiative process gives all citizens an equal opportunity to shape the
laws that govern their lives and that of their fellow citizens. In reality, ballot initiatives
have become a favorite tool of special interest groups who seek to disenfranchise
minorities. This type of direct democracy readily lends itself to abuse because the
language and impact of the legislation and constitutional amendments submitted by
special interest groups to voters are often ambiguous and designed to exploit the
majoritys ignorance about and fear of minorities.
75. Anti-equality advocates utilized Ohios ballot initiative process to enshrine
discrimination against gay and lesbian couples in Ohios constitution in 2004.
Throughout their constitutional amendment campaign, proponents grossly misrepresented
the lives of lesbian and gay couples and their children and the impact of the proposed
amendment on those families. Proponents also understated their intention to use the
amended constitution (a) to dismantle the modest existing benefits and rights lesbian and
gay individuals and couples have worked for many years to obtain in Ohio, and (b) to
prevent members of this minority group from achieving any form of relationship
recognition in this state.
76. The proposed Ohio constitutional amendment set forth as Issue 1 on the November 2004
ballot read: Only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in
or recognized by this state and its political subdivisions. The state and its political
24

subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried
individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance or effect of
marriage.
77. As is clear from the expansive text, the amendment not only forbids same-sex couples
from marrying, but also prohibits them from seeking comprehensive forms of relationship
recognition such as civil unions or domestic partnerships at a local, regional or statewide
level.
78. Citizens for Community Values (CCV), a not-for-profit corporation based in Cincinnati,
Ohio, was the primary sponsor of Issue 1. Phil Burress was president of CCV and served
as chairman of the Ohio Campaign to Protect Marriage (OCPM), the political action
committee controlled by CCV. CCVs attorney David R. Langdon is credited with
authoring the text of the amendment.
79. CCVs campaign to communicate misinformation about gay and lesbian individuals and
couples found nationwide support from other anti-equality groups including Focus on the
Family, Family Research Council, National Coalition for the Protection of Children and
Families, American Values, and the Liberty Counsel. (See, e.g., Exhibit H: Burress 2-26-
04 Memo re CCV and Coalition backing federal constitutional amendment banning
same-sex marriage.)
80. CCVs publications on its web site and its extensive advertising campaign urging voters
to support Issue 1 left no doubt as to its hostility toward homosexuals. In a four-page
document titled The Homosexual Issue Where do we Stand? And Why?, CCV
proclaimed that the organization opposed the inherent dangers of the homosexual
25

activists agendadangers both to society and to the individual. (Exhibit I: CCV, The
Homosexual Issue Where do we Stand? And Why? from CCV website Aug. 8, 2004.)
81. The Homosexual Issue articulates CCVs core principle that homosexual identity
must be based exclusively on sexual behavior, referring to oral and/or anal sodomy
practiced with members of the same sex because It is that specific behavior which they
claim qualifies homosexuals for special rights and minority status.
82. The Homosexual Issue further identified the inherent dangers of the homosexual
activists agenda as:
a. Violating the Judeo-Christian teaching that the marriage defined as one woman
and one man living together in a lifelong, monogamous, covenantal relationship,
a teaching [that] is grounded in Scripture, and the truths of Scripture are absolute
and are not subject to change;
b. Departing from Gods intention for human sexuality, including not only
homosexual behavior, but also rape, incest, pedophilia, premarital sex, adultery,
bestiality, pornography and any other sexual expression outside this Scriptural
norm;
c. Ignoring natures confirming of the Scriptural sexual ethic, i.e. that only [o]ne
man and one woman have the ability to express their love in a true, complete
physical union, resulting in life-giving procreation;
d. Recruiting men, women and children into this destructive lifestyle;
e. Causing destructive outcomes associated with homosexual behavior including
AIDS, a much higher incidence and risk of sexually transmitted diseases,
26

approximately three times the risk of alcoholism and drug abuse, a significantly
higher rate of domestic violence and promiscuity, and a shortened life span;
f. Rejecting conversion therapy as a viable alternative when thousands of people
have overcome this desire, have withdrawn from homosexual behavior and have
gone on to enjoy fulfilling heterosexual relationships;
g. Establishing gay and lesbian organizations in our schools, with the purpose
being to train gay and lesbian students for activism and to encourage straight
students to experiment with homosexual behavior as defined above, and often
resulting in homosexual role playing; and
h. Seeking special rights for homosexuals in an effort to attain complete social
acceptance of homosexual behavior.
83. CCV concludes its The Homosexual Issue by denying that gay and lesbian individuals
and couples suffer any legal, economic or social disadvantages. It states: Persons who
practice homosexual sodomy do not demonstrate any of the characteristics that identify
disenfranchised classes. They are not discriminated against in any of the ways considered
essential by the courtseconomic status, educational opportunity or political
representation. In fact, the level of education and the average income of homosexuals are
considerably above the average education and income for the population in general. A
study of their movement shows that they clearly enjoy all the legal rights and privileges
of other citizens.
84. CCV also shipped its misinformation about homosexuality to public school boards and
superintendents in Ohio, advising them incorrectly - that by adopting policies aimed at
protecting lesbian and gay students from harassment and physical attacks, school officials
27

put themselves and their school districts at risk of criminal and daunting civil liability.
In a letter to the superintendent of Cincinnati City School District, for example, CCV
President Phil Burress warned that by allowing access by homosexual activist
organizations, and by establishing policies that have the effect of normalizing
homosexual behavior, schools and/or their employees may be liable for physical,
emotional, or criminal harm to the students entrusted to their care. Burress claimed that
the efforts of national and local groups advocating for safe schools policies is nothing
more than a deceptive ploy to encourage sexual behaviors that are always unsafe, and
sometimes illegal. Burress also falsely reported that these groups endorsed and
encouraged adult-child sexual relationships and same-sex sexual behavior among
students, resulting in numerous negative physical and emotional consequences directly
related to same-sex behavior. (Exhibit J - CCVs Legal Liability Letter to Schools May
2003).
85. In its Facts About Issue 1 publication, CCV continued to mislead Ohio voters about the
need for Issue 1. It stated falsely - that marriage equality advocates sought to eliminate
age requirements for marriage, advocated polygamy, and sought elimination of kinship
limitations so that incestuous marriages could occur.
86. CCVs Facts About Issue 1 also drew readers attention to a White Paper authored
by the Corporate Resource Council claiming - again falsely - that employers who have
non-discrimination policies for gay and lesbian employees expose themselves to
significant legal problems including failing to conform to federal law requiring
employers to protect against a sexually hostile work environment and failing to
accommodate religious beliefs. This paper also falsely reported that health benefits for
28

same-sex couples are much more expensive than for heterosexual couples that [s]exual
relationships between members of the same sex expose gays, lesbians and bisexuals to
extreme risks of sexually transmitted diseases, physical injuries, mental disorders and
even a shortened life span. (Exhibit L: Corporate Resource Council White Paper on
costs of domestic partner benefits).
87. In addition to the vituperative anti-gay rhetoric distributed through its webpage and direct
mail, CCV (through its political action committee OCPM with support from allies
including Focus on the Family) spent more than $1.1 million conveying their distorted
messages about the lives of gay and lesbian Ohioans and their children. Then Ohio
Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell Ohios chief election officer and honorary co-
chair of President George Bushs Ohio re-election campaign - lent his support to the
anti-equality crusade by doing radio and television advertisement urging voters to amend
Ohios constitution to deny marriage and all other forms of relationship recognition to
same-sex couples in Ohio. (Exhibit M: Media Blitz Begins for Ohio Issue 1 (10-26-04)).
88. OCPMs television and media campaign supporting passage of Issue 1 included
misleading statements from Mr. Blackwell such as [w]e won't have a future unless
[heterosexual] moms and dads have children, and that [e]very major social science study
tells us time and again: families are stronger with a wife and a husband; children do better
with a mother and a father. (Exhibit N: Transcripts of Radio and TV advertisements
supporting Issue 1).
89. OCPM reportedly placed phone calls to 3.3 million Ohio households in which a recording
of Secretary of State Ken Blackwell urged voters to approve the amendment. (Exhibit M:
Media blitz begins for Ohio's Issue 1).
29

90. Multiple misrepresentations contained in OCPMs print advertisements supporting Issue
1s passage bear evidence of animus toward gay and lesbian Ohioans. In print
advertisements titled CommonSense and PrivateLife, OCPM misrepresented social
science findings about the mental and emotional health of same-sex couples and their
children, ignoring the substantial science then available. The advertisements also stated
falsely that passage of Issue 1 would have no impact on benefits unmarried couples
received from employers, even though the backers of Issue 1 had publicly stated that the
amendment would prevent public employers from continuing to offer such benefits and
had pledged to challenge domestic partner benefits offered by Ohio State University and
other public entities as soon as the amendment passed a promise they made good on.
The Common Sense advertisement also suggested that polygamous marriage would
inevitably follow recognition of marriage by same-sex couples. (Exhibit O: Common
Sense Advertisement; Exhibit P: Private Life Advertisement).
91. Misleading arguments on the necessity of the amendment are also found in Issue 1
supporters explanation of the amendment contained in the official Ohio Issues Report for
Issue 1 published by the Ohio Ballot Board, a Board chaired by Secretary of State
Blackwell. This language explains that the amendment excludes from the definition of
marriage homosexual relationships and relationships of three or more persons, thus
breathing more life into the nonexistent threat of polygamy. (Exhibit Q: Ohio Issues
Report for Issue 1).
92. The misinformation CCV and its allies communicated to the public to ensure passage of
Issue 1 were grounded in stereotypes of gay men and lesbians that had long been
disproven by medicine, science, other disciplines, and common experience.
30

93. By 2004, numerous studies by social scientists, medical and mental health professionals,
economists, and other credible experts in various disciplines documented that gay and
lesbian people were, just as their heterosexual counterparts, multi-faceted individuals
who could not be defined based upon sexual behaviors in which they may or may not
engage.
94. By 2004, credible sources confirmed that gay and lesbian couples were procreating and
raising children who were as healthy and well-adjusted as heterosexual couples.
95. By 2004, credible economic analyses repeatedly confirmed that neither same-sex couples
nor gay and lesbian individuals were economically advantaged.
96. By 2004, credible legal scholars and practitioners documented that local, state and federal
laws and policies bestowed no special rights on gay men and lesbians and their
children. Rather, the laws continuously placed gay and lesbian couples and their children
at a substantial disadvantage compared to heterosexuals.
97. By 2004, characterizations of lesbians and gay men as mentally or emotionally
unbalanced or as sexual predators who recruited children and others into their lifestyle
had been soundly disproven by credible science and common experience.
98. By 2004, all credible studies of gay men and lesbians concerning the depression or
anxiety experienced within this population traced the cause of their emotional distress to
the hostility and hatred of groups like CCV and its affiliates directed at homosexuals,
rather than any innate condition related to sexual orientation.
99. By 2004, conversion therapy had been rejected by the esteemed American Psychiatric
Association (APA) and all other credible medical professionals due to its ineffectiveness
31

in changing a persons sexual orientation and the significant harms imposed on those
subjected to it.
100. By 2004, public schools were beginning to enact antidiscrimination policies, but
not to privilege gay and lesbian students or to promote any type of sexual behavior.
Rather, schools were begrudgingly enacting these policies in reaction to increased and
often brutal attacks on non-gender conforming students and to lawsuits in which victims
proved that the indifference or hostility of school officials toward gay and lesbian
students encouraged the attacks.
101. By 2004, bullying of school-age children and brutal physical assaults on gay and
lesbian adults were (and continue to be) inspired by the continuous recitation of false and
distorted information about gay men and lesbians by organizations like CCV and the
individuals and other groups associated with CCV.
102. In sum, the proponents of Issue 1 successfully portrayed gay and lesbian
individuals and couples in Ohio as an evil dragon poised to destroy all that is good and
decent in society, and then promoted Issue 1 as the only appropriate weapon for slaying
that dragon. But as the case with all dragons, the one created by CCV and its allies was
then and remains today - a mythical creature. The degree of animus displayed by CCV
and other Issue 1 backers in perpetuating this myth is strikingly similar to the animus
employed to secure the passage of Colorados Amendment 2, the state constitutional
amendment that the U.S. Supreme Court declared unconstitutional in Romer v. Evans,
517 U.S. 620 (1996). Unlike Amendment 2, however, Article XV, 11 of the Ohio
constitution continues to inflict significant injury, as it is routinely invoked by CCV and
32

like-minded individuals and organizations to try to reduce even further the few legal
rights and benefits that gay and lesbian Ohioans enjoy
Conclusion
103. Ohio law banning the recognition of same-sex marriages celebrated in other states
creates two distinct and inherently unequal Ohios. Opposite-sex married couples and their
children live in the Ohio that automatically bestows more than one thousand state and
federal rights, benefits and privileges on them. Same-sex married couples and their
children live in the Ohio that automatically denies most state and federal rights, benefits
and privileges to them. Since 2004, the inequality enshrined in Ohio law extends far
beyond the denial of marriage per se, as Ohio statutory and constitutional provisions deny
same-sex couples even the opportunity of seeking any type of relationship recognition
that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance or effect of marriage.
This leaves gay and lesbian couples who wish to formalize their commitment to each
other with a single option: be married in another state. Ohios refusal to recognize the
out-of-state marriages of its gay and lesbian citizens, especially when the state provides
no other form of relationship recognition, is firmly grounded in the historic and
contemporary animus directed at gay and lesbian Ohioans.

Signed under penalty of perjury this 10th day of October, 2013.

C Case: 1:14-cv-00347-MRB Doc #: 14-1 Filed: 06/18/14 Page: 42 of 183 PAGEID #: 136
C Case: 1:14-cv-00347-MRB Doc #: 14-1 Filed: 06/18/14 Page: 43 of 183 PAGEID #: 137
bdd1c568-10b0-4db2-89e8-4e92517db92f Electronically signed by SuzAnne McMillin (601-288-036-8069)
513-233-3000
www.elitereportingagency.com
2
2
1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S:
2 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: Chair recognizes
3 Representative Sietz.
4 REPRESENTATIVE SIETZ: Thank you,
5 Mr. Speaker. Permission to speak to the bill?
6 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: Gentleman may
7 proceed.
9 Mr. Speaker.
10 Two years ago, in October 2001, we passed
11 this same bill, this on a vote of 67 to 29.
12 Ohio was thus poised to join what was then 36
13 other states and the federal government in
14 passing defense of marriage legislation.
15 Since that time, another state, Texas,
16 has joined the group, so we now have 37 states
17 and the federal government that have passed
18 defense of marriage legislation.
19 Two years ago, the Ohio Senate did not
20 take us up on that bill. And for those of you
21 that have been around a while, you know that
22 the Senate president was not particularly
23 enamored with that bill, because he didn't
24 think it was necessary.
25 And for those of you that follow clips
3
1 religiously, as I do, I hope you saw the
2 article in clips from December 7th in which
3 our former Senate president, who bottled this
4 bill up for two years out of his conviction
5 that it wasn't necessary, said the
6 developments on Massachusetts have changed his
7 mind and he now supports the legislation.
8 Those of you who know our esteemed former
9 president know that his is a mind not lightly
10 changed. What this bill does is to strengthen
11 Ohio's current marriage law by providing an
12 express declaration of state public policy
13 that same-sex marriages and civil unions are
14 against the strong public policy of this
15 state.
16 The reason why that is important is that
17 under the constitutional Full Faith and Credit
18 Clause a court is normally obligated to defer
19 to the validity of acts and decrees in other
20 states unless doing so would violate a strong
21 public policy of the forum state.
22 Stated simply, if we do not pass this
23 bill, we are at risk that the recently
24 legitimized same-sex marriage provisions found
25 by a 4 to 3 majority of the Massachusetts
4
1 Supreme Court will be imported into Ohio
2 because we failed to declare what our strong
3 public policy is in this state. Ohio law
4 already limits marriage to a man and a woman,
5 but we have never said that that represents
6 strong public policy of this state.
7 What has happened in the intervening two
8 years is not limited to Massachusetts. The
9 courts of Canada have found a constitutional
10 right under Canadian law for same-sex couples
11 to be married.
12 When we considered this bill two years
13 ago, only Vermont, through their civil union
14 statute, had legitimized relationships between
15 homosexual couples and extended the benefits
16 of marriage to them through the euphemism of
17 the word civil union, and only Belgium and the
18 Netherlands have legitimized same-sex
19 marriages outright.
20 So my good friend, the former Senate
21 president, may well have been right that the
22 problem was largely hypothetical two years ago
23 and is much less so today by reason of the
24 intervening developments in Canada and
25 Massachusetts.
5
1 I am not willing to leave it to our
2 courts to define what Ohio's public policy
3 might be. They have a track record both here
4 and in other states of finding things that the
5 legislature never intended.
6 Indeed, I dare say that until about one
7 month ago, when the Massachusetts Supreme
8 Court, 4 to 3, found a constitutional right to
9 same-sex marriage in the Massachusetts
10 constitution, I very much doubt that Myles
11 Standish and Daniel Webster and J ohn Hancock
12 and Samuel Adams and J ohn Adams and Paul
13 Revere ever thought that that is what their
14 constitution provided, but there you have it.
15 I want to focus on why this threat is a
16 real threat. In the 1950s, our Supreme Court
17 considered a case called Mazzolini versus
18 Mazzolini. At issue in that case was whether
19 a marriage between first cousins that was
20 legal in, ironically enough, Massachusetts,
21 would be recognized in Ohio, even though Ohio
22 did not recognize marriages between people
23 that closely related.
24 And the Ohio Supreme Court, in that case,
25 said, well, we know what Ohio law says, but we
513-233-3000
3
6
1 don't see any strong public policy reason why
2 Ohio would decline to recognize a first-cousin
3 marriage that was valid in the law of the
4 state where the marriage was contracted,
5 Massachusetts.
6 I believe that if you change the word
7 first-cousin to same-sex marriage, you have
8 the exact same problem, by coincidence,
9 involving the exact same state, Massachusetts.
10 But you don't have to believe me. In
11 May 2000, the Legislative Service Commission
12 stated in memo that we've all seen -- those of
13 us that have worked on this -- the language of
14 Ohio's marriage law might be considered by
15 some courts to be inadequate to constitute a
16 declaration that homosexual marriages are void
17 in this state. And, therefore, without
18 explicitly declaring same-sex marriages void,
19 Ohio may have to recognize such marriages.
20 That's what LSC said three years ago, before
21 the Massachusetts decision.
22 Now, with that as background, what this
23 bill does is, mainly, three things: it
24 clarifies that Ohio's current prohibition on
25 same-sex marriages in this state is a strong
7
1 public policy, it prohibits the recognition in
2 Ohio of same-sex marriages or civil unions
3 entered into in other states or foreign
4 countries, and it prohibits the state of Ohio
5 from providing the specific statutory benefits
6 of legal marriage to unmarried persons,
7 whether they are of the same or different
8 sexes.
9 There's a lot of myths about this bill.
10 I've heard that this bill will prevent persons
11 involved in a homosexual relationship from
12 bequeathing property, giving healthcare powers
13 of attorney, or enjoying other's right not
14 specific to a marital relationship.
15 It's not true. Read the bill. Nothing
16 in this bill prohibits the extension of
17 specific benefits otherwise enjoyed by all
18 persons, married or unmarried, to nonmarital
19 relationships between persons of the same sex
20 or different sexes.
21 Under Ohio law, you don't have to be
22 married to adopt a child. You don't have to
23 be married to give a power of attorney, you
24 don't have to be married to adopt a child.
25 You don't have to be married to get a power of
8
1 attorney. You don't have to be married to
2 inherit property by will. You don't have to
3 be married to ach -- achie -- assume child
4 custody or guardianship. You don't have to be
5 married to visit somebody in the hospital.
6 This bill will have no effect in those issues.
7 Next thing I've heard, this bill will
8 prohibit private companies, cities, and other
9 units of local government in Ohio from
10 extending the benefits of legal marriage or
11 domestic partner benefits to homosexual or
12 other unmarried people.
13 It's not true. The bill is expressly
14 limited to public acts, records, or judicial
15 proceedings of this state, as defined in 9.82
16 of the revised code. And if you read that
17 definition, it says, state means state, not
18 the inferior units of local government.
19 This bill says nothing about precluding
20 private entities and local governments in this
21 from doing what they please. That's up to
22 them. It imposes no prohibitions on any
23 governmental entity in this state, other than
24 the state itself.
25 And if there was any doubt about that,
9
1 under the good work of the chairman from
2 Findlay, the bill was amended. It said all
3 that before. They amended it yesterday, and
4 they added another sentence saying, hey,
5 folks, nothing in this bill affects private
6 agreements and nothing in this bill prevents
7 people from using whatever statute they want
8 to get whatever benefits they're entitled to,
9 just you can't use the statute that says, this
10 is a benefit of marriage and have that statute
11 somehow redefined to include same-sex couples.
12 Here's the example I've been using with
13 anybody that'll listen, just so we all get it.
14 There's a statute in Ohio, 3307.79, that says
15 school boards will make health insurance
16 available to married teachers. So I heard the
17 argument, well, because that's a benefit of
18 legal marriage, I guess that means no school
19 board can make health insurance available to
20 unmarried teachers or same-sex relationships.
21 All we're saying is that unless you're
22 legally married, you can't use 3307.79 to get
23 those benefits, because that section says,
24 married teachers get health insurance. But
25 there's other statutes, like the collective
513-233-3000
4
10
1 bargaining statutes, that say, a school
2 district shall collectively bargain terms and
3 conditions of employment with its employees.
4 And nothing in there says, only for the
5 married, so you can use collective bargaining
6 to try to get those kind of benefits if the
7 local school board wants to give them to you.
8 And there's probably another section
9 somewhere in that education code that the
10 gentleman from Mansfield and the lady from the
11 Dayton area are so familiar with that says, a
12 school district may employ whomsoever it wants
13 on reasonable terms and conditions. So you
14 could use that statute to try to get health
15 insurance benefits.
16 People say that this bill is somehow
17 discriminatory. Well, folks, there isn't any
18 court anywhere that has stricken down any
19 defense of marriage legislation anywhere. And
20 these bills have been passed in 37 states and
21 at the federal level.
22 People say, this is unprecedented, this
23 denial of benefits. Well, I don't buy that
24 either. Because when Congress passed their
25 defense of marriage bill in one United States
11
1 code, Section 7, they dealt with the benefits
2 problem this way. They said, in determining
3 the meaning of any act of Congress, or of any
4 ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the
5 various agencies of the United States, the
6 word marriage means only a legal union between
7 one man and one woman as husband and wife, and
8 the word spouse refers only to a person of the
9 opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.
10 Why didn't Congress list all the
11 benefits? Because there were so many, they
12 were afraid of missing some. So they chose to
13 deal with it much like we're dealing with it,
14 by saying the specific statutory benefits of
15 marriage mean married in the conventional
16 sense and spouse in the conventional sense,
17 and that bill was signed by President Bill
18 Clinton.
19 Kentucky's law on the defense of marriage
20 says, any rights granted by virtue of a
21 same-sex marriage are unenforceable in
22 Kentucky courts.
23 Georgia has declared void not only
24 same-sex marriages, but any contractual rights
25 granted by virtue of such a marriage.
12
1 Florida has prohibited all of its
2 political subdivisions from giving effect to
3 any same-sex marriage or any relationships
4 stemming from that relationship.
5 So this is not true that we are going
6 farther than anybody else. We are simply
7 saying -- we're clarifying our marriage law.
8 And we're saying wherever else in those
9 57 volumes of code we use the word married or
10 spouse, we mean married as we have heretofore
11 defined it and spouse as we have heretofore
12 defined it, just like the feds did. That's
13 what we're doing.
14 So you say, well, why don't you just stop
15 with declaring same-sex marriage to be a
16 strong -- against the strong public policy of
17 that state. Well, that would fix the problem
18 under our marriage provisions in 3101;
19 wouldn't do a dern thing about all these other
20 statutes that talk about marital benefits.
21 You'd have people taking advantage of our five
22 state pension funds and coming in and saying,
23 well, I'm the surviving spouse, pay me my
24 pension.
25 Now, do you think when we set up the
13
1 actuarial calculations for PERS and STRS and
2 all them, that they were really figuring that
3 surviving spouses would include Fred claiming
4 to be J ohn's surviving spouse? I don't think
5 so. And we all know those pension funds
6 aren't exactly flushed with money today.
7 So, therefore, Mr. Speaker, I've tried to
8 take some time explaining this bill, because
9 there's a lot of myths and there are some
10 facts that everybody needs to know.
11 I understand there may be a number of
12 amendments from my colleagues on the other
13 side of the aisle, and I applaud some of those
14 amendments for at least being honest. If
15 people want to redefine marriage and say the
16 benefits of marriage should be available to
17 same-sex people, then bring in a bill, take it
18 through committee, see if you get the fifty
19 votes here and the however-many votes over
20 there.
21 But at least they're being honest about
22 what their intentions are. Bring it in. We
23 want to require domestic partner benefits for
24 unmarried people, bring in the bill, and we'll
25 deal with it, and we'll see it if that agrees
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14
1 with what the majority here wants to do.
2 But I urge your support for this bill.
3 We're behind the curve, not ahead of the
4 curve. 37 states and the federal government
5 have done this already. The committee passed
6 this unanimously yesterday. Let's get with
7 the program. When the president of the Senate
8 can change his mind because of this, it's time
9 that the rest of us get with the program.
10 Thank you.
11 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: The question is,
12 should the bill pass? The chair recognizes
13 Representative Skindell.
14 REPRESENTATIVE SKINDELL: Thank you,
15 Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, move to amend.
16 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: Gentleman moves to
17 amend. Amendment has been distributed to all
18 members. It's 5090. It is in order. The
19 gentleman may proceed.
20 REPRESENTATIVE SKINDELL: Thank you,
21 Mr. S -- thank you, Mr. Speaker. Permission
22 to speak to the amendment?
24 proceed.
25 REPRESENTATIVE SKINDELL: Thank you.
15
1 Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the
2 House, this amendment is a clarification of
3 the law regarding the benefits section, not
4 the marriage section of this legislation.
5 Under the benefits section, it talks
6 about marital benefits. That can be construed
7 by some folks to include bereavement leave. I
8 do not believe that it's the intent of this
9 legislature to deny the ability of a
10 significant other to attend the funeral of
11 their significant other, should there be a
12 passing.
13 This is a clarification of law so that
14 there's -- this does not include bereavement
15 leave.
16 Thank you.
18 shall the motion be agreed to? The chair
19 recognizes Representative Sietz.
20 REPRESENTATIVE SIETZ: Mr. Speaker, I
21 move to lay the amendment on the table.
23 lay the motion upon the table. The House will
24 prepare to receive the vote on that motion.
25 Have all members now voted? Clerk will
16
1 take the roll.
2 THE CLERK: 51 affirmative votes,
3 37 negative votes; therefore, the motion is
4 laid upon the table and does not become a
5 part of the bill.
7 shall the bill pass? The chair recognizes
8 Representative Harwood.
9 REPRESENTATIVE HARWOOD: Thank you,
10 Mr. Speaker. Move to amend.
11 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: Lady moves to
12 amend. The amendment is 5087. It has been
13 distributed to all members. It is in order.
14 Lady may proceed.
15 REPRESENTATIVE HARWOOD: Thank you,
16 Mr. Speaker. Permission to speak to the
17 amendment?
18 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: Lady may proceed.
19 REPRESENTATIVE HARWOOD: What this
20 amendment would do is totally delete any
21 reference to the marital benefit sections of
22 the bill. After speaking with the Council of
23 State Governments, it's become clear to me
24 that the 37 other states who do offer this,
25 none are as broad as Ohio in dealing with the
17
1 marital benefits section.
2 If this bill truly is what it's purported
3 to be, simply to make clear in writing,
4 codified that it is the strong public policy
5 of this state that marriage is between a man
6 and a woman, that would take care of the full
7 faith and credit issues and prevent us from
8 having to recognize civil unions from other
9 states.
10 This bill goes far beyond that and is
11 meant, I think, to hurt people. It prohibits
12 the state from offering benefits to people who
13 are living together, whether they are of the
14 same sex or opposite sex. What that means is,
15 it treats people who are employed by the state
16 differently. It means that many people --
17 it's an argument whether or not that would
18 cover university employees. How far does
19 state go?
20 Is this going to take people off of
21 healthcare plans? Which we have all fought so
22 hard to get as many Ohioans insured as
23 possible, and where are those people going to
24 end up? We sat here during the budget talking
25 about how much it costs on Medicaid, and it's
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6
18
1 one of the costs that's rising. Are we going
2 to purposely knock people off of benefits and
3 put them on Medicaid?
4 The ramifications of adding this in the
5 bill -- we don't need to be the leader of one
6 of the states. This will open us up to
7 litigation.
8 We stand here and talk about how reports
9 are clogged. Let's simply make this bill
10 what it's intended to be, make it clear what
11 the strong public policy in this state is:
12 marriage is between a man and a woman. It
13 really does not need to go any further than
14 that.
15 Thank you.
17 shall the motion be agreed to? The chair
18 recognizes Representative Sietz.
20 Mr. Speaker.
21 I respect what the gentlewoman said. The
22 amendment that she's offering was offered in
23 committee yesterday and defeated. The
24 amendment deserves to be defeated or tabled
25 because, number 1, if we stop with the
19
1 declaration of public policy in our marriage
2 law, we will only fix the problem of
3 recognition of marriage in the marriage law
4 section of the code.
5 Without the benefits language, we will
6 have a multiplicity of lawsuits in which
7 people say, well, the legislature said we
8 can't be married under the marriage law, but
9 over here, I've got this statute that says
10 spouse, and they didn't say anything about
11 what spouse means for purposes of this other
12 statute outside 3101, so I'm going to come in
13 and say spouse should be redefined in this
14 evolving framework of our law to encompass
15 same-sex relationships.
16 So we need to do it because we have to
17 take care of all the other places strewn
18 throughout the 57 volumes of code that use the
19 word marriage or spouse. That's why we need
20 to do it.
21 Now, the argument is that we're somehow
22 denying benefits or throwing people off the
23 rolls. Again, I say, read the bill. Nothing
24 in the benefits section, division C3, shall be
25 construed to do either of the following:
20
1 prohibit the extension of specific benefits
2 otherwise enjoyed by all persons, married or
3 unmarried, to nonmarital relationships between
4 persons of the same sex or different sexes,
5 including the extension of benefits conferred
6 by any statute that is not expressly limited
7 to married persons, or affect the validity of
8 any private agreements that are otherwise
9 valid under the laws of this state.
10 I don't know how much farther you can go
11 than that to be clear -- and it's also in the
12 uncodified law section of the bill -- to say,
13 we're not here to interfere with private
14 employers in what they do.
15 So then the argument is, well, are we
16 throwing people off the rolls of state health
17 plan benefits; and, gee, isn't that just going
18 to put more people on Medicaid?
19 Well, now, that's really funny. Because
20 if the state is providing those benefits under
21 a health insurance contract, who's paying for
22 that? The state.
23 This is not going to have any impact on
24 that. If the state quits paying for it in the
25 health insurance contract, and the state has
21
1 to pay for it on the Medicaid side, you could
2 make the argument that at least the feds pay
3 58 percent of Medicaid.
4 So, therefore, we are not putting anybody
5 in jeopardy here of being thrown off the roles
6 of whatever they're entitled to. Because our
7 state university employees have the right to
8 collectively bargain, too. And they can use
9 those statutory rights and say, hey, Mr. OSU
10 or Mr. Akron and Mr. Miami, we want same-sex
11 healthcare benefits for our employees.
12 And if the university says okay, nothing
13 in this bill is going to stop them from saying
14 okay. They can say okay. And if they have
15 said okay, that's perfectly okay in this bill.
16 What the state university employees cannot do,
17 though, under this bill is come in and say,
18 well, now I'm in the -- we're all in STRS or
19 SERES or whatever the university people are
20 in, and say, you got this statute here that
21 says surviving spouses get a pension when we
22 croak.
23 And what this bill will say, is, oh, no,
24 you're not going to come in here as unmarried
25 persons -- whether homosexual or
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7
22
1 heterosexual -- and contort those pension fund
2 benefits that are conferred by the state to
3 state employees and say, well, I -- I should
4 be treated like a spouse.
5 So it will have that consequence. And,
6 in my opinion, it should. Because nobody now,
7 nobody now, is collecting a surviving spouse
8 benefit, under any of our five pension funds
9 by reason of a same-sex relationship. We're
10 not taking any benefits away from them. We're
11 just making sure they're not going to get
12 those kind of benefits through some
13 avant-garde redefinition of the word spouse in
14 our pension laws, because that exposes the
15 pension funds to greater obligations.
16 So it is not going to affect this health
17 insurance business in any way, shape or form.
18 I don't know how we could have been any
19 clearer in here than saying it four times and
20 limiting it to the state.
21 And the only thing it is going to do is
22 provide a little belt-and-suspenders
23 protection for our beleaguered pensions funds
24 against having additional claims put on them
25 by people coming in and saying, well, I know
23
1 I'm not married under the laws of your state,
2 but, by the way, I'm the surviving spouse
3 anyway, so pay me my pension benefit. It will
4 do that. (Inaudible.)
6 will the motion be agreed to? The chair
7 recognizes representative Grendell.
8 REPRESENTATIVE GRENDELL: Thank you,
9 Mr. Speaker. Move to lay the amendment on the
10 table.
11 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: Gentleman me --
12 la -- moves to lay the amendment upon the
13 table. The House can prepare to proceed to
14 vote upon that motion.
16 take the roll. 57 affirmative votes, 37
17 negative votes. Therefore the motion is laid
18 upon the table and does not become a part of
19 the bill. The question is, shall the bill
20 pass? The chair recognizes Representative
21 Yates.
22 REPRESENTATIVE YATES: Thank you,
23 Mr. Speaker. Move to amend 5100.
25 amend. The amendment is number 5100. It has
24
1 been distributed to all members, and it is in
2 order. The gentleman may proceed.
4 Mr. Speaker. And, also, a request to speak
5 both to the amendment and the bill.
7 proceed.
9 Mr. Speaker.
10 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: I think I got
11 2512.
12 REPRESENTATIVE YATES: Mr. Speaker and
13 members of the house, I rise tonight
14 reluctantly to speak conscientiously in
15 opposition to the proposed bill from my very
16 dear friend and eloquent colleague from
17 Hamilton County.
18 I would be remiss in addressing the
19 amendment and the bill if I did not refer to
20 his earlier referral to some of the founding
21 fathers, suggesting in some way that 2003 was
22 a -- similar to the Massachusetts colony of
23 1774 in which, at that time, even, you had to
24 be a member of the Anglican church to settle
25 in the colony or to even be able to vote. The
25
1 point being that the world and the country,
2 the United States, was a great deal different
3 than what was described by my friend.
4 This is a very vexing bill. And I, for
5 one, wish it were not here tonight. But it is
6 here.
7 My colleague from Hamilton County has
8 said on this floor that sometimes he reflects
9 the spirit of J ohn C. Calhoun. And I hope
10 tonight to reflect, in contrast to that, the
11 western democratic spirit of Andrew J ackson
12 and speak for a small step forward on behalf
13 of what I would term, generally, as human
14 rights.
15 I think that if the bill passes tonight,
16 that perhaps not today or next year, but
17 within ten years, we will look back and,
18 constitutionally, this will be considered very
19 much an error. In 100 years -- as we
20 approached, recently, the 14th amendment --
21 when we look back, this vote tonight may even
22 shame our state.
23 This bill has -- whether we like it or
24 not -- vast state and certainly important
25 federal constitution implications around both
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8
26
1 the 1st and 14th Amendments. Our own
2 constitutional law, in the case of Loving
3 versus Virginia, declares marriage as a
4 fundamental right.
5 The Massachusetts court decision has
6 similar language and goes on to state that for
7 those of us who believe that, or who have
8 believed that marriage is in place principally
9 for the procreation of children, is not
10 correct either, in and of itself.
11 What my colleague from Hamilton County
12 knows is what Oliver Wendell Holmes knew, who
13 said, the life of the law of our country has
14 not been logic, it has been our experience.
15 And the world today is so very different.
16 I liken this situation to the battle of the
17 suffragettes in the early 20th century, women
18 who fought 75 years for basic rights to vote
19 and other rights in this country.
20 And the human rights community of our gay
21 and lesbian citizens -- we may as well say it.
22 All we are doing tonight is a refight of the
23 Battle of New Orleans when he should know that
24 the war of human rights has morally already
25 been won in decisions every day in small ways
27
1 and big ways across this country, and
2 continues to do so, witnessed principally by
3 Ohio's, and this nation's, largest
4 corporations providing domestic-partner
5 benefits to same-sex situations.
6 My amendment, in speaking directly to it,
7 agrees with the restatement that the sponsor
8 suggests before this time removes all language
9 relating to either civil unions or domestic
10 partner benefits as issued by the state.
11 If we do that, we meet the sponsor's
12 goal, and we also give Ohioans and the country
13 a chance to continue to discuss this issue.
14 For no matter how far we are settled, I can't
15 possibly believe that this issue has been
16 discussed broadly in town meetings, in
17 churches, in temples, in synagogues, and even
18 in own homes, families, and workplaces.
19 And let us leave those additional
20 questions of civil unions and domestic-partner
21 benefits to a more thoughtful claimant, not
22 rushed in the haste of the Massachusetts
23 decision or in our strong feelings.
24 And so, Mr. Speaker, I would ask for a
25 roll call vote.
28
2 should the motion be agreed to? The chair
3 recognizes Representative Young.
4 REPRESENTATIVE YOUNG: Thank you,
5 Mr. Speaker.
6 I'm here concerned this evening that a
7 lot of us here are against House Bill Number 2
8 because they'd like to see a number --
9 certainly one of the basic tenets of western
10 civilization simply reengineered.
11 To those in that camp, I would say that
12 you should stop and consider what we're
13 talking about here this evening. You know,
14 we're not really dealing with lowering the
15 driving age from 16 to 15. We're not talking
16 about changing the ways in which you can
17 obtain a fishing license or a hunting license.
18 We're talking about one of the pillars of our
19 society that's traditional marriage. In fact,
20 we're talking about a divine institution
21 that's been given to us by God.
22 J ust consider a few facts. Consider the
23 human condition. We're made up of males and
24 females. It's fairly obvious we're designed
25 for one another. The males and females coming
29
1 together in traditional marriage create the
2 basic unit, the building block of our society.
3 And traditional-marriage children are
4 naturally conceived and raised, generations
5 are linked together.
6 And through these webs of relationships,
7 cohesion and strength is given to societies.
8 Every successful and every major society in
9 the history of mankind has demonstrated a
10 strong preference for traditional marriage.
11 If you just look at the scientific
12 evidence, children of married partners tend to
13 be healthier. They tend to be more creative.
14 They tend to do better in school. They tend
15 to be less involved in crime. Married spouses
16 tend to be happier, healthier, wealthier than
17 their counterparts.
18 I would say to you, please, don't be so
19 quick to rush to judgment and throw
20 traditional marriage aside for some unproven
21 social experiment. Nor should we allow some
22 unnamed court to simply redefine traditional
23 marriage in any way they might choose. It's
24 time that the people's house stands up and
25 defends traditional marriage.
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9
30
1 I move to lay the amendment upon the
2 table. Thank you.
3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Bill is out of
4 order. Out of order.
5 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: Representative
6 Young, you're out of order.
7 Question is, shall the motion be agreed
8 to? The chair recognizes Representative
9 Faber.
10 MR. FABER: Thank you. Thank you,
11 Mr. Speaker. Move to lay the amendment on the
12 table.
14 lay the -- moves to lay the amendment on the
15 table. The house will prepare to proceed to
16 vote on that motion. Representative Cates
17 voting in the affirmative. Have all members
18 now voted? Clerk will take the roll.
19 61 affirmative votes, 32 negative votes;
20 therefore, the motion is laid upon the table
21 and does not become part of the bill.
22 The question is, shall the bill pass?
23 The chair recognizes Representative
24 Yates.
25 REPRESENTATIVE YATES: Mr. Speaker --
31
1 Mr. Speaker -- Mr. Speaker, request permission
2 to move to amend.
4 amendment. The amendment is 5101. It has
5 been distributed to all members, it is in
6 order, and the gentleman may proceed.
8 Mr. Speaker. Actually, I'd ask you to have
9 pulled 5102. I won't be introducing 5101.
10 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: All right.
11 REPRESENTATIVE YATES: Or 5103.
12 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: Okay. That's good.
13 I feel much better about this amendment,
14 Representative Yates.
15 Gentleman is asking for us to move 5102.
16 It is in order. Gentleman may proceed.
17 REPRESENTATIVE YATES: Thank you.
18 I just wanted to indicate that I asked
19 that those amendments be pulled because just
20 like the proponent's bill that he has
21 introduced, the one -- those other two are
22 probably not right for this discussion, and,
23 in that spirit, they have been pulled.
24 Speaking to this amendment, 5102, what
25 this amendment does is amends the sponsor's
32
1 legislation to add a permissive may, that the
2 state may provide domestic partner benefits in
3 statute, when the state administration decides
4 to, through the Department of Administrative
5 Services.
6 I believe that this is an amendment which
7 mirrors in state law and for state employ --
8 employees the same benefits that the sponsor
9 would like to or has included for the private
10 sector.
11 And since many of us believe that all of
12 us -- that the private sector is often more
13 correct than we are, then why would we not
14 include this permissive application of
15 domestic partner benefits to the sponsor's
16 bill?
17 And I would ask for a roll call vote,
18 Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
19 Question is, shall the motion be agreed
20 to?
22 Stewart.
23 REPRESENTATIVE STEWART: Thank you,
24 Mr. Speaker. Permission to speak to the
25 amendment and the bill?
33
2 proceed.
3 REPRESENTATIVE STEWART: Thank you,
4 Mr. Speaker.
5 Boy, what a difference a day makes.
6 Yesterday, I was so proud of the bipartisan
7 effort we -- we did to lower the cost of
8 prescription drugs. And, today, I'm rather
9 saddened by this -- this -- this effort here.
10 What we're about to do here is -- is just
11 wrong. God, I miss the good old days of -- my
12 friend, my colleague from Cincinnati -- my
13 friend's grand old party, when they stood
14 for a party of less government intrusion into
15 people's personal life, you know, the party of
16 Lincoln, that stood for equality, that all men
17 and women are equal.
18 This isn't about the defense of marriage.
19 I'm all for marriage. We're all for defending
20 marriage. This is something else. The
21 federal legislation that you discussed would
22 allow the state to prevent recognizing other
23 states' marriages, so this isn't necessary.
24 This now deals with benefits for
25 heterosexual or gay couples, unmarried,
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10
34
1 partners that work for the state, and would
2 prohibit them from receiving benefits. It
3 sends unintended consequences.
4 We all recognize that today, in this
5 world, in the real world of 2003, we receive
6 our benefits from our employment or our
7 spouse's employment. And that's a good thing,
8 to try to increase benefits for people out
9 there. We all know we pay for this. Your
10 taxpayers pay for it just like I do, and my
11 citizens do. Why wouldn't we want to cover
12 more people? This is going to have unintended
13 consequences.
14 I have a letter here from NCR. While it
15 doesn't -- this legislation doesn't affect
16 private companies, we all know that what we do
17 has an impact on business. This is sending
18 the wrong message.
19 I can't put it any more eloquent than my
20 colleague from Cincinnati. There are more
21 people here that are more eloquent and can
22 debate the final legal points of this. But
23 what we're about to do here is just wrong, and
24 I support the amendment, and I would urge for
25 the adoption of the amendment.
35
1 Thank you.
3 shall the amendment be agreed to.
5 Widowfield.
6 REPRESENTATIVE WIDOWFIELD: Thank you
7 very much, Mr. Speaker. I move we lay the
8 amendment on the table.
10 lay the motion upon the table. The house will
11 proceed to on that motion.
13 take the roll.
14 65 affirmative votes, 29 negatives votes;
15 therefore, the motion is laid upon the table
16 and does not become a part of the bill.
17 The question is, shall the bill pass?
18 The chair recognizes Representative Redford.
19 REPRESENTATIVE REDFORD: Excuse me.
20 Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Permission to speak
21 to House Bill 272?
23 proceed.
24 REPRESENTATIVE REDFORD: I am delighted,
25 Mr. Speaker, that at least we know this issue
36
1 is about money and not the sanctity of
2 marriage. Up until a couple of speeches ago,
3 I thought that was the case.
4 In this great state where we fall over
5 ourselves to create no-fault divorce to speed
6 up the process for ending the sanctity of
7 marriage among heterosexual couples, I find
8 it, Mr. Speaker, offensive to suggest that
9 those children that are raised in
10 single-parent households, that are raised in
11 bisexual, homosexual, transgender households
12 somehow receive less than the household I was
13 raised in with my mother and father.
14 I do find it offensive. I do. I feel,
15 both in my capacity as a representative for
16 the 80th house district, which stretches from
17 Vermillion to the city of Northwood, as well
18 as the minority leader, leading 37 -- 36 of my
19 colleagues, nearly four million constituents,
20 that it is impair upon -- impair -- that it is
21 incumbent upon all of us not to worry about
22 the polls or reaction from the far right or
23 the far left, but to search our soul.
24 It's interesting that the analogy used by
25 a prior speaker suggests this was not an
37
1 issue, like making it easier for a 16-year-old
2 to receive a driver's license when they're 15.
3 That 16-year-old, if she's a female, could
4 marry in this state. Of course, she'd need to
5 get permission from her parents.
6 70 percent of all marriages under seven
7 years end in divorce. 50 percent of all
8 marriages in this state, if not more, end in
9 divorce. Let's not suggest that one is better
10 off or not better off if he or she is in a
11 heterosexual marriage, because, statistically,
12 it's just simply not the case. It's about
13 loving one's neighbor or loving one's spouse.
14 And that, my friends, is not a tenet of
15 western civilization. That's a tenet of
16 civilization.
17 The Loving case that my colleague from
18 Cincinnati spoke to so eloquently -- and,
19 certainly, I don't have that ability -- dealt
20 with marriages of different races -- rest
21 assured male and female, of course -- but
22 dealt with marriages of separate races. And
23 up until the Supreme Court ruled in its
24 '67 ruling, the state of Virginia prohibited
25 marriage among African Americans or
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38
1 Caucasians.
2 In the case of the Loving decision,
3 those folks were barred from the state of
4 Virginia -- Commonwealth of Virginia for
5 25 years. That was just about 30 years ago.
6 I am quite concerned, not about the
7 sanctity of marriage -- no one on this side
8 has suggested that -- that we should make
9 marriage available for same-sex couples. We
10 have merely suggested that perhaps one day we
11 will have that discussion; not tonight, not
12 tomorrow night, but I've heard 10 or 20 years,
13 perhaps.
14 What I'm pointing out, and what others
15 are pointing out -- and it make -- and it may
16 make some feel uneasy. So be it. Why do
17 companies in the private sector choose to
18 offer benefits when the law does not require
19 them to do so? In my opinion, extending
20 benefits to nonmarried couples is a very
21 profamily action, because it acknowledges the
22 truth of the modern family life for those
23 single mothers, for those couples who have
24 lived together without marriage for decades.
25 Reasons cited by corporations who extend
39
1 such benefits include: fairness. We should
2 never let fairness get in our way of
3 legislation, of course. Fairness. Since
4 benefits comprise about 30 to 40 percent of
5 the average employee's compensation, an
6 employee who does not receive benefits for his
7 or her partner due to his or her marital
8 status and/or orientation, those employees are
9 at a significant disadvantage. We could
10 continue to chase the brightest and the best
11 out of this state. We shouldn't have our
12 handprints on their backs.
13 Comprehensive benefits are highly
14 enticing in the hiring process. And benefits
15 packages that do not address the full range of
16 modern families exclude many qualified
17 applicants; of this, we all agree.
18 Diversity. The rising population of
19 women, minorities, and others in the workplace
20 value a diverse workplace. Those in the
21 private sector understand that. Heck, you can
22 count the Fortune 500 corporations doing
23 bus -- business in this state in the 10s, 20s,
24 30s who offer benefits to unmarried couples,
25 heterosexual couples.
40
1 Offering these kind of benefits also
2 increase productivity and employee
3 satisfaction. Employees receiving benefits
4 are less likely to be lured away by
5 competitors or competing states, for that
6 matter. I guess -- well, we're one of 37,
7 potentially. Thank goodness.
8 Doing so is responsive to the competitive
9 trends among those in the private sector. I
10 want to make it clear that the representative
11 from Cincinnati is precisely correct when he
12 suggests that the federal legislation which
13 was passed did not bar states from recognizing
14 civil unions, certainly. It gave them the
15 ability to do so. Because, prior to that,
16 there was some constitutional question
17 regarding states recognizing or not
18 recognizing civil unions.
19 But the analogies that have since been
20 used, I'm troubled with. Frankly, I cannot
21 sit here and accept without standing. The
22 founding fathers, and we've heard several
23 names, many were Quakers, congregationalists.
24 Both of which -- both churches recognizes
25 civil union marriages, by the way, today,
41
1 ironically enough.
2 Vice president Dick Cheney recognized the
3 predicament we were in when, during the last
4 presidential debate, he was asked about his
5 daughter and same-sex marriage. He said --
6 and I quote -- the fact of the matter is that
7 we live in a free society, and freedom means
8 freedom for everybody.
9 And I think that means people should be
10 free to enter any kind of relationship they
11 want to. It's really no one else's business
12 in -- in terms of trying to regulate or
13 prohibit behavior in that regard. I think
14 different states are likely to come to
15 different conclusions, and that's appropriate.
16 It speaks to my point. I'm not here to
17 suggest that the representative, the sponsor,
18 is in the business of hate mongering. He's
19 merely suggesting that we don't have the funds
20 here in the state of Ohio to provide for,
21 within our retirement systems -- for those
22 folks in same-sex or heterosexual couples --
23 those benefits.
24 For him -- and I certainly don't mean to
25 speak for the -- the sponsor -- it may be a
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1 question of dollars and cents. But for
2 others -- and I sat in committee -- it
3 certainly was not a question of dollars and
4 cents. It was a question of casting judgment
5 upon others, criticizing one's life and
6 livelihood and the -- the way they mar -- they
7 raise their children. And I, again, find that
8 offensive.
9 Gays and lesbians are a part of every
10 Ohio family. They should need -- should not
11 be short-changed in their efforts to better
12 their lives and serve their communities. If
13 you work hard and play by the rules, you
14 should be rewarded and not just be turned your
15 back upon because you're gay.
16 It is time Ohio realize that there was no
17 gay exemption in the right to life, liberty,
18 and the pursuit of happiness in the
19 Declaration of Independence.
20 These are not my words, they're Barry
21 Goldwater's words. He said, I am proud that
22 the republican party has always stood for
23 individual rights and liberties. Positive
24 role of limited government has always been the
25 defense of these fundamental principles.
43
1 Our party has led the way in the fight for
2 freedom, a free-market economy, a society
3 where competition and the Constitution matter
4 and sexual orientation shouldn't.
5 I only wish that the issues discussed in
6 committee dealt with the issues that were
7 brought up by the sponsor of the legislation.
8 You know what they say. Those in glass houses
9 shouldn't throw stones. Restoring stability
10 to these families in question is a tough
11 problem. It requires careful, thoughtful --
12 and, yes, solutions.
13 The break-up of the American family,
14 which we watch from our seats as legislators,
15 that problem was not created by homosexuality.
16 That idea may get you through the night, but
17 statistically, empirically, logically, it just
18 doesn't hold water.
19 I agree that marriage is a quintessential
20 state issue. I would agree with the
21 representative from Cincinnati. It's a shame
22 that the facts of the legislation were lost in
23 the rhetoric and the demagogy for some -- from
24 some on the very, very fringe of our society.
25 I would hope and I would urge a no vote
44
1 on the bill and we allow this discussion, as
2 legislators, as policymakers, to continue.
3 And, for that, we would all be much better as
4 a body and as a state.
5 Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
6 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: Question is, should
7 the bill pass?
8 Chair recognizes Representative Grendell.
10 Mr. Speaker. Request permission to speak
11 briefly on House Bill 272.
12 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: You may proceed.
14 Mr. Speaker.
15 House Bill 272 is not wrong. It's not
16 about government intrusion. If we were
17 talking about limiting private companies from
18 doing as they see fit, we'd be intruding by
19 government. We're not. It's not about
20 divorce. It's not about 1773 or the framers
21 of the constitution or Virginia.
22 It is about the defense of marriage. And
23 the representative from -- and sponsor from
24 Hamilton County has already spoken to the
25 issue. But to my colleague from across the
45
1 aisle, it is about something else, something
2 very important, and that is affirming who sets
3 the public policy in the state of Ohio.
4 Now, I used to read from a book, but we
5 got these computers, so I'm going to have to
6 do this. But Article 1 -- I'm sorry --
7 Article 2, Section 1 of the Ohio Constitution,
8 The legislative power of the state shall be
9 vested in a general assembly consisting of a
10 Senate and House of Representatives. It
11 doesn't say that the legislative policy-making
12 powers of the state of Ohio are established by
13 a court in Massachusetts, some folks in
14 Canada, Vermont, California, or some federal
15 judge, wherever he or she may be located.
16 The vote on the defense of marriage act
17 today is preserving a principle, a principle
18 that is the Ohio General Assembly that
19 establishes the policy of the state of Ohio.
20 And as the last speaker noticed, marriage is a
21 quintessential policy of state law and has
22 been for a long time.
23 Now, there's no shame in voting for this,
24 because 37 state have already recognized the
25 legislative responsibility of their general
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1 assemblies. Two courts have already upheld
2 states that have adopted DOMAs. And the
3 federal DOMA signed by Bill Clinton, no
4 paramour of conservative values, has not been
5 challenged.
6 There's a reason why the public policy is
7 set by us and not by Massachusetts, and that's
8 because we are accountable to the people of
9 Ohio. There's no judge in Massachusetts who
10 is accountable to one person who lives in this
11 state, but we all are. And that's why it is
12 important that we retain the policy, power in
13 Ohio to decide on what is marriage.
14 If the people of Ohio want to change
15 marriage, the people of Ohio have the power to
16 do that, either through this general assembly
17 or powers reserved to them in Article 2,
18 Section 1 of the Ohio Constitution. But those
19 powers would be lost, even the powers of the
20 people to change what we do here, if we have a
21 Massachusetts court establish what is marriage
22 in Ohio.
23 Now, we cannot advocate our
24 responsibilities to another state or a federal
25 judge. You've heard me rally before. It's
47
1 bad enough that we are extorted by the federal
2 government to pass bills, sort of usurping our
3 independent authority. It would be
4 inexcusable to advo -- advocate our duty to
5 set public policy on what constitutes marriage
6 to another state or federal judge.
7 We can disagree on policy. And if the
8 issue of what constitutes marriage needs to be
9 redefined later in the history of Ohio, that's
10 this august body exists and the people have
11 the powers they've reserved in Article 2.
12 We should debate policy in this body.
13 But the Defense of Marriage Act you're being
14 asked to vote on tonight is a question of
15 whether you want to keep that power or whether
16 you want to kick that power to some folks in
17 Massachusetts.
18 I'm going to vote that the people of Ohio
19 deserve to have their representatives decide
20 the public policy of this state. And I ask
21 that you support 272 and support yourselves in
22 the process.
24 should the bill pass?
25 The chair recognizes Representative Dale
48
1 Miller.
2 REPRESENTATIVE MILLER: Speaker
3 Householder, request permission to speak to
4 House Bill 272.
6 proceed.
7 REPRESENTATIVE MILLER: Thank you very
8 much.
9 My colleagues, my distinguished colleague
10 from Hamilton County, the sponsor of the bill,
11 is an attorney, and a very learned one at
12 that, and I am not. But I do believe that
13 people, in fact, are going to do what he
14 suggested. They are going to read the bill.
15 And they are going to read the bill in
16 different ways. And there is going to be a
17 lot of litigation.
18 And I do believe and I do predict that
19 some people will either lose benefits that
20 they currently enjoy or else they will find it
21 more difficult to obtain benefits that they
22 should reasonably be entitled to than it would
23 be if this legislation were not enacted. I,
24 for one, am not willing to gamble on any of my
25 constituents or any of my fellow citizens in
49
1 this state to lose benefits simply to make a
2 statement about marriage.
3 This bill is not about the defense of
4 marriage. I can tell you that a homosexual
5 couple is in no way a threat to my marriage,
6 nor do I believe that it is a threat to
7 anybody else's marriage.
8 There are things that are threats to
9 marriage. Unemployment is a threat to the
10 quality and sanctity of marriage. When people
11 have to work two or three jobs at minimum
12 wages trying to hold a family together, that's
13 a threat to marriage. The lack of health
14 insurance is a threat to marriage. Domestic
15 violence is a threat to marriage. Child abuse
16 is a threat to marriage. And we should be
17 dealing with these real issues if we truly
18 care about the sanctity of marriage.
19 My colleague, the distinguished minority
20 leader of this body, talked about the way that
21 companies are offering these benefits because
22 of how important that is in attracting quality
23 employees. I would add to that argument that
24 the state of Ohio is in very serious
25 competition, not only with other states, but
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50
1 with the private sector, to gain and keep the
2 employment of quality workers so that we can
3 provide good public services at the lowest
4 possible cost.
5 And I tell you that we are making a very
6 serious mistake that is going to hurt this
7 state in the long run by denying ourselves the
8 possibility in the future of offering
9 domestic-partner benefits.
10 In closing, I would like to bring to
11 everybody's attention that in about the year
12 1798, the state of Kentucky, their
13 legislature, passed a bill stating that, from
14 henceforth, the value of pi would be exactly
15 three. They didn't like these uneven numbers.
16 Fortunately the governor of Kentucky vetoed
17 it. But the legislature of Kentucky has been
18 derided ever since for this.
19 Well, I tell you that, at some point
20 in the future -- I don't know whether it's
21 10 years, 50 years, or 100 years from now, our
22 legislature and other legislatures who have
23 passed this kind of legislation are going to
24 be seen in the same way. Because it is an
25 undeniable fact that homosexuals represent
51
1 between 5 and 10 percent of our population.
2 And that's just the way it is. And to pretend
3 that these people don't exist or that they
4 should be treated as second-class citizens is
5 plain wrong.
6 And the vast majority of these
7 homosexuals, their sexual orientation is not a
8 matter of their choice but a matter of what
9 they were either born with or what was formed
10 very early in their life. And to pass this
11 bill is simply a denial of reality, and I urge
12 a no vote on House Bill 272.
14 shall the bill pass?
16 Ujvagi.
17 REPRESENTATIVE UJ VAGI: Thank you,
18 Mr. Speaker. Permission to speak to the bill?
20 proceed.
21 REPRESENTATIVE UJ VAGI: Mr. Speaker,
22 members of the house, as we have sat here
23 debating tonight, I keep reading this bill
24 over and over and over. And for the life of
25 me, I cannot understand how this is the
52
1 Defense of Marriage Act. And if there is
2 truth in advertising, this is not true.
3 It really is an issue of tolerance that
4 we're talking about here. And if anyone had
5 attended any of the hearings, and if the good
6 representative from Hamilton County who -- who
7 presided over he -- those hearings knows the
8 level of intolerance that was presented at
9 that -- at those hearings.
10 It is very interesting for us to note
11 that while we're here debating this bill --
12 and it's not just a question of -- of the
13 issue of marriage, but goes to the heart of --
14 of the rights of people in terms of benefits.
15 There is a headline cover on Governing
16 magazine that talks about the exact opposite
17 and about how cities and states are working
18 very, very hard to be able to -- to prove the
19 tolerance in their communities to attract
20 people of all diversity, because that is so
21 critical to their future and their economic
22 life and their cultural life.
23 And for us to be sitting here today and
24 to pass this bill and to pretend that it is a
25 defense of marriage is a shame. There have
53
1 been efforts, motion after motion after motion
2 from this side of the aisle to focus the
3 issue, and each of those motions failed.
4 That is not on our backs. That is your
5 responsibility. If those -- any of those
6 motions had focused the issue on the question
7 of the definition of marriage, you would have
8 found a much stronger, perhaps, vote here on
9 this floor. But don't do sleight of hand.
10 This is about tolerance, this is about the
11 future, and this is not about the defense of
12 marriage. I would urge a strong no vote on
13 this act.
14 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: Question is, should
15 the bill pass?
17 Beatty.
18 REPRESENTATIVE BEATTY: Thank you,
19 Mr. Speaker. Permission to make a few brief
20 remarks?
21 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: You may proceed.
22 REPRESENTATIVE BEATTY: Thank you.
23 I didn't have a written speech tonight.
24 But I'm a clinician. I'm a certified
25 diversity trainer. And, like many of you, I
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54
1 didn't want go home tonight and say, did I
2 really hear all that stuff I heard? Or I
3 didn't want to go home tonight and say, why I
4 didn't I make a comment about something?
5 So let me just briefly make three points.
6 Let's talk about the first point that my
7 friend and colleague from Hamilton County said
8 about our former president of the Senate, that
9 this bill never surfaced when he was here, and
10 yesterday, or recently, there was a clip that
11 said he had changed his opinion.
12 Well, I think his longevity and the
13 reason it didn't come -- because when he was
14 here, he was representing all of the citizens
15 of Ohio, and he understood that the right
16 thing to do was not to do something that could
17 be discriminatory, so he chose not to bring it
18 before this great body.
19 Now, when you go out of office and you're
20 not running for anything, we all know that you
21 can really say a little more than oftentimes
22 we can say here. So I wanted to make that
23 statement.
24 The other thing we talked about, the
25 tradition of marriage, I think that's very
55
1 interesting. Because, see -- I can say this
2 because I've been discriminated against
3 because I'm black, because I'm female, and
4 because I'm well over 50.
5 But let me tell you about the tradition
6 of marriage. My mother-in-law, in the
7 early '40s, had graduated from a prominent
8 college as a female, and all she wanted to do
9 was teach school and get married. Well, see,
10 the tradition then was, you couldn't be
11 married and teach school. So she had to give
12 up her teaching job in order to get married.
13 Now, let's fast-forward. There was also
14 a time that you could not be married to
15 someone who was not of the same color or race
16 as you. Now, that's our rich ter -- tradition
17 that we talked about.
18 So, you see, tradition is not what's at
19 the table here today, because we change every
20 decade or so. And, for the most part, I agree
21 with that. I agree that this is not about
22 marriage. I do agree that this is really
23 about something that, for many of us, for a
24 variety of reasons, is difficult to talk
25 about, whether it is your religion, whether it
56
1 is your background, your lifestyle, your
2 culture.
3 And I will be the first to say that I
4 respect that. That's why I agreed with a lot
5 of what my colleague from the 98th district
6 said on public policy. It's okay. But don't
7 come to me with it disguised as something
8 else.
9 And in this great state -- and in my
10 district alone, in the city of Columbus, we
11 have the second highest gay population to San
12 Francisco. We have individuals who fall into
13 that population who are homeowners, who are
14 great leaders, who pay into that pension that
15 my colleague talked about.
16 So let's not play like if someone has a
17 partner that's of the same sex that they're
18 asking for a free ride. They do the same
19 things that we do.
20 Quickly, some facts. If we would pass
21 this bill, it would immediately adversely
22 affect over a quarter of a million Ohioans,
23 Ohioans who pay into our tax base.
24 My constituents wrote me and said that
25 they believe that House Bill 272 violates the
57
1 Equal Protection Clause of the Ohio and US
2 Constitutions, because it does not provide a
3 rational basis for denying benefits between
4 married and unmarried people.
5 We also believe that it could
6 discriminate against unmarried state workers.
7 Under this bill, all unmarried state
8 employees, both those in labor unions and
9 those who are not, will be forever barred for
10 bargaining or -- and/or obtaining health care.
11 Now, let me end with something I read.
12 You know how we all have pieces of paper and
13 then you find something, or you're surfing on
14 the Internet and you find a quote and you say,
15 I really like this. Well, I found something.
16 And it's only three lines. And it was called,
17 Standing Tall and Preserving American Values.
18 It says, We should celebrate our freedoms
19 every day. We should live each day as if it
20 were the Fourth of J uly. We should rejoice in
21 the fact that we live in a nation that offers
22 her citizens rights and freedoms that others
23 cannot enjoy. And, today, I ask you to
24 support the rights and freedoms of our gay
25 friends. And those words are from Speaker
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1 Larry Householder.
2 Thank you, Speaker, for those great
3 words.
4 SPEAKER HOUSEHOLDER: You're welcome.
5 The question is, shall the bill pass.
6 The House will proceed to vote on the bill.
8 take the roll.
9 69 affirmative votes, 23 negatives votes.
10 Therefore, the bill, having received the
11 required constitutional majority, is hereby
12 passed and entitled.
13
14 - - -
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59
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3 I, SuzAnne McMillin, CLR, the undersigned
4 court reporter, state the foregoing transcript was
5 transcribed by me via video to the best of my
6 ability.
7
8 ______________________________
SuzAnne McMillin, CLR
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36a91b03-d8f9-468f-820a-7bc36c5d9f51 Electronically signed by SuzAnne McMillin (601-288-036-8069)
513-233-3000
2
2
1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
2 PRESIDENT WHITE: Chair recognizes
3 Senator Harris.
4 SENATOR HARRIS: Thank you,
5 Mr. President. Thank you.
6 And, members of the Ohio Senate, I stand
7 before you today to discuss House Bill 272,
8 also known as the Defense of Marriage Act.
9 House Bill 272 was approved out of the finance
10 committee earlier this morning.
11 As all of us know, the finance committee
12 heard 30 plus witnesses, both proponents and
13 opponents of the bill, during the nine hours
14 of committee hearing yesterday. During public
15 testimony, the emotions and comple --
16 complexities of this issue were very apparent
17 to all of us who were in the committee.
18 While the arguments for and against this
19 bill are often very personal, as chairman of
20 the finance committee, I attempted to keep all
21 testimony and questions focused solely on the
22 legislation itself and the impact that is may
23 or may not have on public policy in Ohio.
24 This is my objective before you today.
25 House Bill 272 closes a potential
3
1 loophole that currently exists in the Revised
2 Code. The bill clarifies Ohio's definition of
3 marriage as solely between one woman and one
4 man and further states that the same-sex
5 marriage -- same-sex marriages are against the
6 strong public policy of the state of Ohio and
7 have no legal effect in this state.
8 House Bill 272 guards against judiciary
9 or legislative acts in other states or
10 countries from compelling Ohio to recognize
11 certain marriages, unions, or relationships
12 that the laws of this state do not grant.
13 When President Clinton signed the Defense
14 of Marriage Act in September of 1996, he
15 stated, the act confirms the right of each
16 state to determine its own policy with respect
17 to marriage. House Bill 272 affirms Ohio's
18 right toward courts, our governments from
19 outside our jurisdiction from encroaching
20 their laws regarding same-sex or common -- or
21 common-law marriages.
22 Ohio joins, with passage of this bill,
23 37 other states in supporting a state's rights
24 in determining marriage policy. Further,
25 House Bill 272 declares that the recognition
4
1 or extension of specific statutory benefits of
2 legal marriage to nonmarital relationships is
3 against the strong public policy of the state
4 of Ohio.
5 While in the house, the bill was amended
6 to clarify that the benefits language is not
7 intended to infringe on existing or future
8 benefits offered by private companies nor by
9 local subdivisions; that includes counties,
10 cities, and school districts. If they choose
11 to offer domestic partner benefits, the
12 statutory benefits section only pertains to
13 state law.
14 During committee, the finance committee
15 accepted two amendments that helped clarify
16 specific areas of the legislation. First,
17 we accepted a technical amendment relating to
18 Ohio's recognition of other states' common-law
19 marriages so that the provisions are
20 consistent within the vari -- within the
21 revised code.
22 The second amendment, which was crafted
23 by Senator Prentiss and the bill's sponsor in
24 the House, Representative Sietz, clarifies
25 that the bill does not prohibit benefits
5
1 currently permitted under Chapter 4117, the
2 Collective Bargaining Agreement.
3 Senator White, we have heard the debate
4 on same-sex marriage for many years. I
5 believe that Ohio, in adjoining 37 other
6 states who have already approved similar
7 legislation, is right in clarifying that
8 public policy of this great state is to
9 recognize that marriage is between one man and
10 one woman.
11 However, let me submit to each and
12 every one of us here today that no group of
13 individuals should ever equate this
14 legislation as a license to discriminate
15 against, harass, or intimidate against any
16 group or individual based on their sexual
17 orientation, gender, religion, or ethnic
18 background.
19 Senator White, I enjoy -- I encourage the
20 support of this body in passing House Bill
21 272. Thank you.
22 PRESIDENT WHITE: The chair, before
23 calling on other members to debate this very
24 sensitive and passionate issue, would ask all
25 members, as we make our comments, to keep them
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6
1 focused on the subject matter of this bill and
2 from the use of personalities and the other
3 extraneous issues.
4 With that, the chair recognizes Senator
5 Hottinger.
6 SENATOR HOTTINGER: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 I, too, rise in support of House
9 Bill 272. It was almost exactly seven years
10 ago that I first introduced this legislation,
11 first, as a member of the Ohio House and,
12 later, as a member of the Senate. And I'm
13 pleased this body is finally considering this
14 important issue here today.
15 There are those who would argue that this
16 bill has been rushed or fast-tracked. And to
17 those members, I would remind them that this
18 is the fourth attempt to pass this bill. It's
19 clearly been an issue that's been debated for
20 a number of years, at least -- at least seven
21 years in the state of Ohio.
22 Even last night on national television,
23 in his State of the Union Address, President
24 George Bush elevated both the importance and
25 the timeliness of what we are addressing
7
1 today.
2 House Bill 272 is needed to clarify and
3 to protect Ohio's definition of marriage
4 between one man and one woman, and that is
5 what this bill is ultimately about,
6 clarification. It is much more a preservation
7 of our traditional definition of marriage than
8 a significant change in our public policy. It
9 is, in a nutshell, the closure of a potential
10 loophole in our state statute on marriage.
11 Recent events, like the court case in
12 Massachusetts and the Vermont civil unions and
13 the legitimizing of same-sex marriages in
14 Canada pose the threat that this date may have
15 to recognize same-sex marriages or civil
16 unions performed in other states or countries.
17 In fact, it is the result of these recent
18 events that moved the immovable former
19 president, Richard Finan. Some of you may
20 recall his nickname of -- of cement head that
21 was attributed to him as a result -- the
22 result of his longstanded -- longstanding
23 beliefs and immovable positions often. But
24 even President Finan, as a former member of
25 this body, has moved from a position of
8
1 nonsupport to an advocate for the -- the
2 bill's necessity.
3 Due to the Full Faith and Credit
4 Provision under the United States
5 Constitution, Article 4, Section 1, which
6 states that -- that we must honor the policy
7 of other states, such as marriages.
8 For example, someone married in the
9 state of Pennsylvania comes to Ohio, we
10 recognize that as a legally binding marriage;
11 someone gets a driver's license in the state
12 of West Virginia, they move to Ohio, we
13 recognize that as a -- as a valid driver
14 license.
15 But same-sex marriages pose an entirely
16 new issue, due to the fact that states like
17 Ohio do not have any laws recognizing them or
18 specifically declaring them void.
19 And I want to speak to -- on just a
20 couple Supreme Court issues: one, a United
21 States Supreme Court issue and also a state
22 Supreme Court issue.
23 First, in 1934, Supreme Court ruling in
24 Loughran versus Loughran, our high court held
25 that each state is to give the full faith and
9
1 credit to marriages of other states unless --
2 unless they are declared void by statute of
3 that state.
4 In other words, if a same-sex couple were
5 to get married in one state and move to Ohio,
6 Ohio could potentially have to recognize that
7 marriage unless state law declares that
8 same-sex marriages in Ohio are void. That is
9 what House Bill 272 is about, is adding that
10 necessary language.
11 And other important case to note is with
12 the issue of Mazzolini vs. Mazzolini. In this
13 case, an Ohio Supreme Court ruled, in 1958,
14 that the state would have to recognize a
15 marriage between first cousins which took
16 place in another state. By happenchance, that
17 state happened to be Massachusetts.
18 Even though Ohio law does not permit
19 first cousins to be married, the Ohio Supreme
20 Court ruled that the marriage would have to be
21 recognized, because the Ohio statute did not
22 declare that a first cousin marriage was void.
23 A May 2000 research memo from LSC states,
24 and I quote, The language of Ohio's marriage
25 law might be considered by some courts to be
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10
1 inadequate to constitute a declaration that
2 homosexual marriages are void in this state.
3 Without explicitly deeming same-sex marriages
4 void, Ohio may have to recognize such
5 marriages, end quote.
6 House Bill 272, therefore, clarifies that
7 same-sex marriages are against the strong
8 public policy of the state of Ohio, they are
9 void in this state, and the bill prohibits the
10 recognition in Ohio of same-sex marriages or
11 civil unions entered into either in other
12 states or foreign countries. Senate -- excuse
13 me -- House Bill 272 will strengthen current
14 language and uphold that marriage is solely
15 between a male and a female.
16 Ohio, ladies and gentlemen, must be able
17 to clearly establish and define our own laws
18 rather than have another state or country
19 determine the way we define something as
20 important as the definition of marriage.
21 As Floor Manager Harris had indicated,
22 37 other states have adopted similar defense
23 of marriage act legislation. I'd also remind
24 that the federal government, in 1996, passed a
25 defense of marriage act, then signed by
11
1 President Bill Clinton. I believe it's now
2 time for Ohio to become the 38th state.
3 Let me tell you what this bill is not,
4 briefly. This bill is not about
5 grandstanding, it is not about gay bashing and
6 it's not about demagoguery. It is solely and
7 clearly limited to and specifically about
8 clarifying and protecting Ohio's definition of
9 marriage between one man and one woman, and I
10 urge your support of the bill.
11 PRESIDENT WHITE: The chair recognizes
12 Senator Fingerhut.
13 SENATOR FINGERHUT: Okay. Mr. President,
14 I move to amend.
15 PRESIDENT WHITE: (Inaudible.)
16 SENATOR FINGERHUT: I believe the
17 amendment has been distributed. It's LSC
18 125.1436-1.
19 PRESIDENT WHITE: The amendment has been
20 passed out, the amendment is in order, and the
21 gentleman may prepare to explain his
22 amendment.
23 SENATOR FINGERHUT: Thank you,
24 Mr. President.
25 Mr. President, members of the Senate,
12
1 there will be time later to discuss our views
2 on the entire bill and to respond to some of
3 the comments that have previously been made.
4 However, I hope you were listening
5 carefully, as I was, to both Senators Harris
6 and Hottinger, because they both indicated --
7 and I believe, as we all respect them, and I
8 do sincerely -- that the sole -- this was
9 Senator Hottinger's last word -- the sole
10 intent of this bill is to clarify the
11 definition of marriage so that we get
12 protected in the event we experience a lawsuit
13 or a full faith and credit claim based on a
14 marriage from Massachusetts or a marriage from
15 Canada.
16 It is the opinion of Senator Hottinger
17 and Senator Harris, as they've explained it to
18 us -- I don't agree, but it's their opinion --
19 that Ohio's law may not be adequate and,
20 therefore, we have a potential loophole.
21 These are their words.
22 If that were so, if that were solely the
23 intention of this bill, then we would stop
24 there. We would still have a disagreement,
25 perhaps, but we would stop there. But the
13
1 bill doesn't stop there. The bill goes on.
2 And the bill specifically denies benefits to
3 nonmarried couples.
4 And, of course, because nonmarried in
5 Ohio -- as even Senator Hottinger and Senator
6 Harris agree -- means the marriage of a man
7 and a woman -- that's our law, it's always
8 been our law -- it means, therefore, that not
9 only homosexual couples who are seeking
10 benefits, but also nonmarried heterosexual
11 couples who are seeking benefits are
12 specifically denied benefits under this
13 statute.
14 The amendment that is before you simply
15 deletes those provisions, lines 52 through 77.
16 It's a short bill. I urge you to read them
17 for yourself before you cast your votes.
18 Line 52 simply begins in a very
19 straightforward manner, the recognition or
20 extension by the state of the specific
21 statutory benefits of a legal marriage to
22 nonmarital relationships between persons of
23 the same sex or different sexes is against the
24 strong public policy of this state. That is
25 completely unnecessary to the point that
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5
14
1 Senator Harris articulated and that Senator
2 Hottinger said is the sole purpose of this
3 bill.
4 Now, the section will go on and try to
5 carve out from that strong language I just
6 read to you private contracts and actions by
7 the state, by local government entities,
8 thereby leaving the impression as if this were
9 okay, leaving the impression that all we're
10 doing is denying specific statutory benefits
11 to state employees. That would be the reading
12 of this.
13 First of all, state employees -- a
14 relatively fair number of people I would say,
15 including in all of our entities such as
16 universities and community colleges, and that
17 issue is going to be addressed separately, I
18 believe. But even -- you don't have to stray
19 very far to know how this touches state
20 employees.
21 For those members of the committee that
22 were there at 10:00 last night, we heard one
23 of our own employees in this very Ohio Senate,
24 one of the people that welcomes people to the
25 statehouse and shows people around the
15
1 statehouse come forward and explain how this
2 bill affects him.
3 It's too bad the entire Senate could not
4 have heard our employee and talk about how
5 this bill affects him. But even under a fair
6 reading -- even under a neutral reading, I
7 should say, of this provision, we know we're
8 denying benefits to nonmarried state
9 employees. We know we're taking benefits
10 away.
11 There was much testimony prevented --
12 presented -- contested and disputed by the
13 sponsor, to be sure -- but testimony that I
14 believe was quite persuasive that this will,
15 in fact, have an impact on benefits at private
16 companies, because we did not define what a
17 specific statutory benefit is.
18 And so, I'm a lawyer. You can make a
19 claim that a specific statutory benefit
20 includes tax credits, the deduction of
21 benefits by a private company under state law
22 from taxes. There's a lot of ways that
23 specific statutes affect private businesses.
24 And so we will see lawsuits against private
25 businesses in Ohio, major private businesses,
16
1 that will claim that they can no longer, under
2 this statute, provide domestic partner
3 benefits.
4 Now, the sponsor -- I mean the House
5 sponsor, in this case -- was absolutely
6 certain -- he was so certain that this would
7 be a completely unmeritorious claim, would
8 never, never, never happen. He, however,
9 thinks the courts make wild decisions all the
10 time on the other side, but there's no chance
11 they'll make a wild decision with respect to
12 the private benefits and the interpretation of
13 specific statutory benefits.
14 But despite the fact that he has very
15 selective confidence in the courts -- when he
16 doesn't agree with them, they're crazy, and
17 when he does agree with them, they're
18 absolutely brilliant -- we know that lawsuits
19 against major corporations have a chilling
20 effect, and they don't want to defend these
21 lawsuits.
22 And so it will have a chilling effect on
23 domestic partner benefits, whichever way the
24 courts end up ruling, because we do not define
25 what we mean by specific statutory benefits,
17
1 what we are denying people here today.
2 So ladies and gentlemen, members of the
3 Senate, based on the testimony, the -- the --
4 the words of the sponsor and of Senator
5 Hottinger, that their intention is simply to
6 shore up this potential loophole -- let's
7 leave the bill with that in it. And let's
8 take out the sections of the bill that are
9 denying benefits to our employees, that are
10 potentially denying benefits to other
11 employees around Ohio.
12 We had testimony that -- you've -- you've
13 all received a letter from NCR Corporation in
14 Dayton. You have -- you should have heard
15 testimony that we had from benefits managers
16 of other major companies who said, you know,
17 we try to recruit talent to Ohio, this is one
18 of the things they ask about.
19 So this is a real serious issue for us
20 here in Ohio. Let's take that language out.
21 If we do take it out, it will then at least be
22 true that what the sponsors have said about
23 this bill is what the bill does. We can then
24 debate whether we still want to do that or
25 not. But at least, then, the description we
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18
1 will have heard will be accurate if we pass
2 this amendment and take those sections out of
3 the bill.
4 The statement that 37 other states have
5 this kind of legislation is only true if we
6 take this out. It is not true. It is not
7 true. We will go beyond what other states are
8 doing if we leave this in. I urge adoption of
9 the amendment.
10 PRESIDENT WHITE: Question is, shall the
11 amendment pass? Chair recognizes Senator
12 Gardner.
13 SENATOR GARDNER: Thank you,
14 Mr. President. I move that the motion to
15 amend be laid upon the table.
18 SENATOR FINGERHUT: Chairman, I object,
19 and I'd like to (inaudible.)
20 PRESIDENT WHITE: The gentleman may
21 proceed.
23 Mr. Chairman. I object to the motion and ask
24 for a roll call vote.
25 I would like to simply point out to the
19
1 sponsor of the motion, President Prentiss --
2 who may not -- I don't believe was in
3 committee yesterday, I'm sure had other
4 pressing business -- that we have not had an
5 opportunity to debate this question.
6 We offered this motion in committee this
7 morning, and it was tabled. There were less
8 than, I believe -- Mr. Chairman, you correct
9 me if I'm wrong. There were maybe three
10 members who attended the entire hearing --
11 three members, I should say, on that side of
12 the aisle, I believe, three members of this
13 side of the aisle who attended the entire
14 hearing all day.
15 This is a critical question. It is going
16 to lead to the challenge of this bill, the
17 constitutional challenge to this bill. It
18 should be debated on the floor here today.
19 This is -- as the president -- as our
20 respected president said, this is a bill with
21 very significant and deep emotions around the
22 state.
23 Members of the Senate, we owe the people
24 of this state a debate on this issue. Do not
25 table this motion.
20
1 PRESIDENT WHITE: Question is, shall
2 the -- amend -- motion to table be agreed to?
3 Roll call vote having been requested, clerk
4 will call the roll.
5 THE CLERK: Amstutz?
6 SENATOR AMSTUTZ: Yes.
7 THE CLERK: Armbruster?
8 SENATOR ARMBRUSTER: No.
9 THE CLERK: Austria?
10 SENATOR AUSTRIA: Yes.
11 THE CLERK: Blessing?
12 SENATOR BLESSING: Yes.
13 THE CLERK: Brady?
14 SENATOR BRADY: No.
15 THE CLERK: Carey?
16 SENATOR CAREY: Yes.
17 THE CLERK: Coughlin?
18 SENATOR COUGHLIN: Yes.
19 THE CLERK: Dann?
20 SENATOR DANN: No.
21 THE CLERK: DiDonato?
22 SENATOR DiDONATO: No.
23 THE CLERK: Fedor?
24 SENATOR FEDOR: No.
25 THE CLERK: Fingerhut?
21
1 SENATOR FINGERHUT: No.
2 THE CLERK: Randy Gardner?
3 SENATOR RANDY GARDNER: Yes.
4 THE CLERK: Robert Gardner?
5 SENATOR ROBERT GARDNER: No.
6 THE CLERK: Goodman?
7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes.
8 THE CLERK: Hagan?
9 SENATOR HAGAN: No.
10 THE CLERK: Harris?
11 SENATOR HARRIS: Yes.
12 THE CLERK: Hottinger?
13 SENATOR HOTTINGER: Yes.
14 THE CLERK: J acobson?
15 SENATOR J ACOBSON: Yes.
16 THE CLERK: J ordan?
17 SENATOR J ORDAN: Yes.
18 THE CLERK: Mallory?
19 SENATOR MALLORY: No.
20 THE CLERK: Miller?
21 SENATOR MILLER: No.
22 THE CLERK: Mumper?
23 SENATOR MUMPER: Yes.
24 THE CLERK: Nein?
25 SENATOR NEIN: Yes.
513-233-3000
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22
1 THE CLERK: Padgett?
2 SENATOR PADGETT: Yes.
3 THE CLERK: Prentiss?
4 SENATOR PRENTISS: No.
5 THE CLERK: Roberts?
6 SENATOR ROBERTS: No.
7 THE CLERK: Schuler?
8 SENATOR SCHULER: Yes.
9 THE CLERK: Schuring?
10 SENATOR SCHURING: Yes.
11 THE CLERK: Spada?
12 SENATOR SPADA: Yes.
13 THE CLERK: Stivers?
14 SENATOR STIVERS: No.
15 THE CLERK: Wachtmann?
16 SENATOR WACHTMANN: No.
17 THE CLERK: Zurz?
18 SENATOR ZURZ: No.
19 THE CLERK: White?
20 SENATOR WHITE: Yes.
21 THE CLERK: 18 yeas, 15 nays.
22 PRESIDENT WHITE: There being 18 yeas and
23 15 nays, the amendment is table -- laid upon
24 the table. Question is, shall the bill pass?
25 Chair recognizes Senator Roberts.
23
1 SENATOR ROBERTS: Thank you,
2 Mr. President. I really wanted to speak to
3 the amendment, but I'll use the opportunity to
4 speak against the bill, at this point.
5 PRESIDENT WHITE: Gentleman may
6 proceed.
7 SENATOR ROBERTS: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 You know, as Senator Fingerhut pointed
10 out, this bill will hurt unmarried households,
11 holds that com -- that comprise almost a
12 quarter of a million households in Ohio.
13 House Bill 272 will harm these families, and
14 this is why I feel we ought to defeat this
15 bill.
16 House Bill 272 opens the door for pro --
17 prohibiting companies from offering healthcare
18 and other partners benefits, thereby
19 increasing the number of uninsured
20 individuals. And many people that live
21 together, but unmarried, may lo -- no longer
22 be able to offer these benefits.
23 As Senator Fingerhut pointed out,
24 in December of last year, December
25 the 12th, 2003, we received a letter from NCR.
24
1 And NCR is not alone. Nationwide, The
2 Limited, Bank One, and Procter & Gamble, just
3 to name a few companies in Ohio, currently
4 offer domestic partner benefits.
5 We are limiting a company's ability to
6 offer the best benefits package they can to
7 their employees. In the words of NCR in this
8 document, the workplace diversity will help
9 us to build the high performance
10 growth-orientated companies we need to be
11 successful in the long term, end of quote.
12 This bill is really an antibusiness
13 bill -- antibu -- business competition bill.
14 The amendment would have alleviated that
15 issue. Since we did not take up the issue, we
16 still have this concern in the bill, and at
17 the committee last night heard testimony from
18 experts who practice law in this area that
19 this issue is alive and well in the bill.
20 One of the letters I received from my
21 constituents pointed further to this issue.
22 And she believes that if we pass this bill,
23 the rights of her children for these benefits
24 to the partner will be lost.
25 Ladies and gentlemen of the House, this
25
1 bill hurts more people than it helps. But,
2 primarily, I think it's going to hurt a lot of
3 Fortune 500 companies in the state of Ohio who
4 offer these benefits as a way to attract
5 Ohio's best and brightest.
6 We defeated the amendment that would have
7 cleared up this issue. This issue is still in
8 the bill. I ask you, at this point, to defeat
9 the bill, because it hurts a lot of Ohioans,
10 it hurts a lot of businesses, and it's not in
11 the best interest of the state.
12 Thank you, Mr. President.
14 Senator Miller --
15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Inaudible) to
16 amend.
17 SENATOR MILLER: Thank you,
18 Mr. President. Move to amend.
19 PRESIDENT WHITE: The gentleman moves to
20 amend.
21 Could you identify your amendment?
22 SENATOR MILLER: The amendment,
23 Mr. President and members, is amended
24 AM5317-125 and it reads -- very briefly, to
25 quote in line 57 --
513-233-3000
8
26
1 PRESIDENT WHITE: Gentleman may ex --
2 gentleman may explain his amendment.
3 SENATOR MILLER: The amendment reads,
4 quote, but excluding state-supported
5 institutions of higher education.
6 Mr. President and members, I believe I'm
7 the only member of the General Assembly who
8 worked for the Legislative Service Commission
9 as a research associate. And so I had the
10 opportunity to draft a number of bills and to
11 do a bit of research.
12 And, during the hearings, I -- I could
13 not help but continually to go back to the
14 code and to read it. The language in the bill
15 talks about a declaration, which we tend not
16 to do in bills -- maybe in resolutions, but
17 not in bills -- and it also talks about the
18 strong public policy. And we certainly don't
19 do that in the Revised Code. I would guess
20 that there is nowhere else in the code that
21 you could find the word strong used in this
22 manner.
23 And so in section 3101.01, it reads as
24 follows: Male persons of the age of 18 years
25 and female persons of the age 16 years not
27
1 nearer of kin than second cousins and not
2 having a husband or wife living may be joined
3 in marriage.
4 And so the law is already crystal-clear
5 in stating who may be joined in marriage. I
6 ask myself, what are we trying to do here? It
7 can only be to deny benefits, because the law
8 already clearly states that a marriage is
9 between a man and a woman.
10 The legislation that we have before --
11 before us, as has been presented by the
12 sponsors, says that a marriage ought to be
13 between a man and a woman. The amendment
14 deals with the denial of benefits.
15 I happen to represent the largest
16 university in the country, The Ohio State
17 University, and I think Senator Stivers may
18 have a part of the university area as well.
19 And what we try to do at The Ohio State
20 University is attract the best and the
21 brightest that we can find: the best
22 students, faculty, staff, administrators.
23 We try to attract the best in the country at
24 The Ohio State university.
25 We're also pleased in the state of
28
1 Ohio -- very fortunate in the state of Ohio,
2 due to the vision and the hard work of former
3 Governor J ames Allen Rhodes, to have the most
4 extensive system of private and public
5 institutions of higher education than any
6 state in America.
7 And so our colleges and universities want
8 to attract the best and the brightest. And in
9 order to be competitive, you can't just focus
10 on salaries. Salaries are important, but you
11 also have to focus on benefits: healthcare
12 benefits, life insurance, pension, retirement,
13 benefits.
14 If I'm trying to attract the best faculty
15 member from some other university or some
16 other part of the country, they're not just
17 going to focus on, what are you going to pay
18 me, what is my salary going to be, they have
19 to see the whole package, the whole
20 compensation package, if you will.
21 And so what we're doing here is putting
22 our colleges and universities, all of them, at
23 a distinct disadvantage. Even though we say
24 that this bill does not apply to colleges and
25 universities, it clearly does. It very
29
1 clearly does.
2 And so the amendment is to exclude our
3 universities from this kind of prohibition,
4 because this bill is all about denying
5 benefits to individuals. I would urge
6 adoption of the amendment.
8 amendment be adopted? Chair recognizes
9 Senator Randy Gardner.
10 SENATOR RANDY GARDNER: Mr. President, I
11 move that the motion to amend be laid upon the
12 table.
13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Objection.
14 PRESIDENT WHITE: The motion is to lay
15 the amendment upon the table. Objection
16 heard. The clerk will call the roll.
513-233-3000
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30
2 THE CLERK: Carey?
6 THE CLERK: Dann?
7 SENATOR DANN: No.
20 THE CLERK: Hagan?
31
11 THE CLERK: Nein?
32
4 THE CLERK: Zurz?
5 SENATOR ZURZ: No.
6 THE CLERK: White?
8 PRESIDENT WHITE: Clerk will call the
9 name Goodman.
10 SENATOR GOODMAN: (Inaudible.)
11 PRESIDENT WHITE: Without objection, the
12 gentleman is so recorded.
15 15 nays, the amendment is laid upon the table.
16 Question is, shall the bill pass? Chair
17 recognizes Senator Hottinger.
18 SENATOR HOTTINGER: Thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 I'd like to say that I believe that
21 the -- the gentleman from the fifth district
22 makes some very good arguments, if only they
23 were accurate. There are not any Ohioans who
24 are currently receiving benefits today that
25 would have their benefits taken away either on
33
1 the public or the private sector.
2 The reality of it is this bill is limited
3 to, and I quote, the public acts, records, or
4 judicial proceedings of this state, end quote.
5 And it says nothing about precluding private
6 entities and local governments in this state
7 from doing what they please.
8 It imposes no prohibitions on
9 governmental entities in this state, other
10 than the state itself. In fact, the bill
11 expressly says it not does affect the validity
12 of private agreements that are otherwise valid
13 in the state of Ohio.
14 The Ohio House, in the J uvenile and
15 Family Law Committee, they took quite
16 seriously the concerns that were raised by
17 many, including the Ohio business community,
18 that the original language in -- in House
19 Bill 272 would, quote, put them at risk for
20 legal action if they extended benefits to
21 unmarried domestic partners.
22 During the committee process in the
23 House, the bill was amended three times. The
24 first bill was technical in nature, and the
25 following two were added because it was
513-233-3000
10
34
1 brought to the attention of the committee by
2 various constituencies and businesses in the
3 state that House Bill 272 could potentially
4 put some institutions at risk of legal action
5 from providing domestic partner benefits to
6 its employees.
7 Although only 51 of the over
8 240,000 businesses in Ohio currently offer
9 such benefits to their employees, it is, of
10 course, not the intention of this bill to deny
11 any citizen of Ohio an already existing right
12 or benefit.
13 It was for that reason that the bill was
14 twice amended to further emphasize this point.
15 The first amendment specifies that the
16 extension of statutory marital benefits to
17 nonmarital relationships is against the public
18 policy of Ohio only when those benefits are
19 extended by the state.
20 The second amendment altered the bill to
21 specifically provide language declaring that
22 while it is the strong public policy of the
23 state not to recognize or extend statutory
24 benefits of legal marriage to nonmarital
25 relationships, it should not be construed to
35
1 prohibit the extension of specific benefits
2 enjoyed by all persons to nonmarital
3 relationships or to affect the validity of
4 private agreements that are otherwise valid
5 under Ohio law.
6 It further makes clear that the phrase
7 specific benefits enjoyed by all persons
8 includes any benefit conferred by statute that
9 is not expressly limited to married persons.
10 Let's make no mistake about it. No individual
11 today in the state of Ohio that is currently
12 receiving benefits are going to have those
13 benefits removed.
14 One other issue that I wanted to
15 speak to was the comments from Senator Miller
16 when he questions the use of strong -- the
17 wording of strong public policy. There's two
18 things I want to say to that. One, I -- I
19 believe he said that this is not something
20 that we do regularly. And -- and it may not
21 be something that is done regularly, but there
22 are two other sections, complete other
23 sections in the Ohio Revises Code that use
24 those specific terms, the strong public
25 policy.
36
1 But the real reason why that language is
2 inserted in House Bill 272 is a result of the
3 1996 federal Defense of Marriage Act, again,
4 signed by President Clinty -- Clinton,
5 detailing to us that it had to be states
6 expressly stating in their -- that it is
7 against their strong public policy. So,
8 therefore, it is a result of the federal DOMA
9 Act of 1996 that we are using what we have
10 done in other instances in the past, the
11 wording the strong public policy.
13 Senator Goodman.
14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Permission to speak to
15 the bill?
16 PRESIDENT WHITE: Gentleman may
17 proceed.
18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you,
19 Mr. President. This is not the best day that
20 I've had in the legislature for many reasons.
21 But I think -- because we're sitting here
22 today debating this issue and we're going to
23 vote on it, and it looks like we're going to
24 probably vote this bill out of the Senate,
25 it's a bad day, I think, for the state Senate
37
1 and a bad day for me, therefore.
2 But this morning, when I got up and was
3 getting dressed, Benjamin was in his little
4 bouncy chair, and I looked over at him, and
5 for the very first time, he smiled at me. He
6 was looking right at me, and he smiled. And I
7 came a little closer, and the smile got
8 bigger. So no matter what happens today, it's
9 a good day, because I got that going for me,
10 which is nice.
11 However, it also got me thinking.
12 Benjamin, someday, is going to do more than
13 smile at me. He's going to look at what I've
14 done with my life. And I want him to look at
15 what I've done, and I want to set the right
16 example for him. And I think, today, by
17 voting no on this, I'm going to be setting the
18 right example for him. Because I think what
19 I'm going to be telling him, because I voted
20 no on this, that I think it's important that
21 we be tolerant and accepting of others who are
22 different than us.
23 We've talked about why this is important
24 for us to pass today, why we need to,
25 because -- because of -- there's a trend
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38
1 throughout the country, and we need to protect
2 ourselves by passing this legislation.
3 There is a thing -- and to put this very
4 simply -- called the full faith and credit in
5 the Constitution. And it is public policy for
6 the state of Ohio, as stated by Senator Miller
7 already, that says that marriage is between a
8 male and a female. Passing this legislation
9 to say, we really mean it, isn't going to get
10 us over Constitutional scrutiny. It's
11 unnecessary for us to do this. And it's
12 already been stated that the reason
13 why we're -- that -- that -- that benefits
14 has nothing to do with this either. So it
15 makes me ask myself, why are we doing this?
16 When I was little, I used to read comic
17 books, and I kind of still do, and -- but
18 it -- and it used to be, at the back of those
19 comic books, was an advertisement that if I
20 exercised, I could get stronger, and if I took
21 some sort of potion, I could be bigger and
22 stronger.
23 And it used to always be this little guy
24 laying on the sand, and this big guy would
25 come over and kick sand on him. And I always
39
1 identified with the little guy for some
2 reason. And it seems to me that what we're
3 really doing here is kicking sand on the
4 little guy. And because I've always
5 identified with the little guy, I don't feel
6 good about that. So I think that this is
7 piling on.
8 Maybe that's because my perspective,
9 generally, is -- is from a minority
10 perspective. You see, in my family, we've
11 never had to feel like we needed to protect
12 ourselves and the integrity of who we are by
13 looking elsewhere and getting support from the
14 world around us.
15 My religion is different than most people
16 around me, and I get my self-esteem and
17 strength of conviction from my family. So --
18 and I -- it's -- I'm not challenged by people
19 around me who have a different way of
20 thinking. I'm not threatened by them. I'm
21 interested. I'm accepting. And so we don't
22 really need to defend ourselves, in my
23 opinion, from people who are different than
24 us.
25 But we are about to pass the Defense of
40
1 Marriage, as if we need to defend ourselves
2 from folks who may have a different idea about
3 what it is to have a union and love each other
4 and want to be able to fulfill some sort of
5 commitment, be it not marriage, because we
6 already don't allow that, but some sort of
7 commitment.
8 I'll tell you a good way to defend
9 marriage. Today, after we're all done, go
10 downstairs to the pharmacy and buy a greeting
11 card, and write in it how much you love your
12 wife or your husband. And then when you get
13 home tonight, give it to her or him. When you
14 get home, ask your spouse how her day was or
15 how his day was, and then listen to what they
16 have to say, really listen.
17 When you see your child, ask him or her
18 how his day was. Turn off the TV, read them a
19 book, spend some time with them, really pay
20 attention and defend your -- and defend
21 marriage by caring about those in your family.
22 We all strive to be the best that we can
23 be when it comes to our families, and we
24 should continue to do so, but we're not
25 perfect. But I do think that by passing this
41
1 bill, we're pointing fingers at others, and
2 that's not what we ought to be doing. We
3 ought to be looking at ourselves and trying to
4 be better parents and better husbands and
5 better wives. And that is the way you defend
6 marriage.
7 Now, I looked at -- a lot of folks have
8 been also talking about the overwhelming trend
9 or the overwhelming polling that shows that
10 folks support what's going on here. But I
11 think if you look at those numbers -- and I
12 looked at a New York Times tracking poll on
13 this issue -- you would find that as you go
14 towards a younger generation of people,
15 they -- the younger generation is much more
16 accepting of domestic partnerships, or even
17 same-sex marriages -- which is not what we're
18 talking about today. But you'll find that
19 those over 65, it's probably 65, 70 percent
20 are opposed. But those 20 to 30 years old and
21 younger are 60 to 65 percent in favor or
22 comfortable with this. The trends are going
23 against us.
24 When my child, Benjamin, gets older and
25 grows up, he's going to look at this issue,
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42
1 and he's going to want to know how I voted on
2 it. Because things are going to be much
3 different. He's going to be part of a newer
4 generation that, I think, is going to be even
5 more accepting, because that's where we're
6 heading.
7 Two generations ago, down in the south --
8 and maybe even here -- I'm not as familiar
9 with it as I ought to be, maybe -- but African
10 Americans couldn't marry whites, and that was
11 accepted. I'm not saying this is the same
12 thing. But I'm saying, someone my age may be
13 asking his grandparent how they could have
14 been in favor of something like that, how
15 could they have been so wrong.
16 I don't want to be in that same position
17 20, 30, 40 years down the line, when Benjamin
18 says to me, dad, how could you have been so
19 wrong. So I'm voting no on this, and I ask
20 that you vote no, too.
22 Senator Dann.
23 SENATOR DANN: Mr. President, move to
24 amend.
25 PRESIDENT WHITE: Gentleman moves to
43
1 amend. The amendment has been distributed.
2 Would you identify your amendments?
3 SENATOR DANN: It's LSC 1251436-1.
4 PRESIDENT WHITE: The gentleman may
5 explain his amendment.
6 SENATOR DANN: Thank you, Mr. President.
7 Members of the Senate, I urge you to
8 consider the amendment which deals with a very
9 narrow topic related to state public employees
10 who may be denied, based on the language of
11 this bill, the opportunity to attend the
12 funeral of their closest personal friend, in
13 the event that they are not married to that
14 person.
15 We're simply asking for a vote to include
16 in this bill a provision that will prevent a
17 policy of the state that would prevent
18 bereavement leave benefits to those in
19 nonmarital relationships to be and to
20 grieve -- to be with and to grieve their loved
21 one in the event of a loss.
22 This would allow unmarried partners to
23 take bereavement leave in the same way that
24 married partners that would do so; not as
25 broad and as sweeping as the other amendments
44
1 that have offered so far today, but I believe,
2 at least, we can offer this gesture of
3 humanity to those unmarried partners at the
4 time of the loss of that partner.
5 PRESIDENT WHITE: The question is, shall
6 the amendment become part of the bill? Chair
7 recognizes Senator Gardner, Randy Gardner.
8 SENATOR RANDY GARDNER: Thank you,
9 Mr. President. I move that the motion to
10 amend be laid upon the table.
12 the amendment be laid upon the table? A roll
13 call being asked for, the clerk will call the
14 roll.
25 THE CLERK: Carey?
45
4 THE CLERK: Dann?
5 SENATOR DANN: No.
8 THE CLERK: Fedor?
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46
9 THE CLERK: Nein?
47
2 THE CLERK: Zurz?
3 SENATOR ZURZ: No.
4 THE CLERK: White?
8 15 nays, the bill -- the amendment does not
9 become part of the bill.
10 Question is, shall the bill pass? Chair
11 recognizes Senator Hagan.
12 SENATOR HAGAN: Thank you, Mr. President.
13 Mr. President, members of this general
14 assembly, I guess all of us are a little
15 uncomfortable today talking about this issue.
16 Because inside the issue, there are a
17 multitude of sidebar issues, issues that all
18 of us sort of don't want to talk about. A
19 little bit uncomfortable as it might be, we
20 sort of push them aside.
21 But I want to know what we think we're
22 really doing in the personal lives of our
23 constituents. I want to know why we think
24 it's okay to enter into their choices in life,
25 into their personal lives. I'm a little --
48
1 really confused about why we would think that
2 it's just okay to jump in there without really
3 admitting what this is all about.
4 And some of you sitting there with a
5 straight face -- no pun intended -- should
6 remember that the issue is a lot about sex.
7 And I am going to make all of you feel like
8 you're wearing a hair shirt. Because it
9 really does talk about your personal choices
10 and your personal preferences.
11 And this bill does go directly to that.
12 Some people are uncomfortable about talking
13 about it. Some people -- you know, when I was
14 growing up, this influence that you have by
15 people that you love dearly -- one time,
16 Mr. President, I wanted to buy a motorcycle.
17 I wanted to ride that motorcycle. My father
18 completely convinced me that I shouldn't by
19 saying this little phrase, riding a motorcycle
20 is a manifestation of your fear of being
21 sexually inadequate. Of course, now, I drive
22 a locomotive.
23 We need to start thinking about the issue
24 in clearer terms and feel uncomfortable about
25 it, because it is a very serious personal
49
1 decision that a lot of people make. You can't
2 hide behind it. Last night surely drove it
3 home to all of us. It was politics, pure and
4 simple, organized at the top, Mr. President,
5 so that it would drift down very slowly and
6 impact elections coming up.
7 Yeah, it is politics. And people are
8 uncomfortable about it, because they want to
9 make sure that if there's an opening to win an
10 election, you might be able to say somebody
11 isn't really that straight or is gay or has an
12 impact in a negative way about that person and
13 how they act. That's troubling to me, because
14 this now becomes a very divisive bill. This
15 becomes a bill of hatred.
16 My 15-year-old said to me, dad, what is
17 going on? Why would they even talk about
18 this? Why do we care about this? Why is this
19 issue so important? Why is it that we're
20 jumping up and screaming about the Defense of
21 Marriage Act when there's issues that we
22 should be talking about?
23 Senator Dann has one that he wants to
24 talk about for the National Guard in
25 protecting them and giving them this, the
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50
1 Defense of Marriage Act? We should be acting
2 in the defense of our soldiers.
3 I understand it's an important issue to
4 many people, and it's important to me. It's
5 important to us because we care about each
6 other -- or we should be caring about each
7 other, but for some reason, we drift away and
8 start entering the lives -- the personal lives
9 of our constituents.
10 Now, I -- I'm not uncomfortable talking
11 about this. I'm not uncomfortable when I work
12 on the railroad and guys are talking about it
13 in very sexist ways, in very negative terms
14 where I have to correct them.
15 And I think all of you sitting there know
16 exactly what this issue is about: sexual
17 presence, uncomfortable about some act,
18 uncomfortable about it because you want to
19 dictate who should have sex and how they do it
20 and when they do it in their bedrooms. That's
21 what it's about. Think about it. That's what
22 it's about. Defense of Marriage Act? Of
23 course we all believe in marriage. It's
24 there. It's in the law. But now we've
25 decided that we'll get a little bit more
51
1 detailed about it.
2 When my 15-year-old says, Dad, what's
3 going on? Didn't you introduce universal
4 healthcare to 1.2 million Ohioans without it
5 15 years ago, 1.4 now? Defense of Marriage
6 Act, let's take away some more benefits from
7 some people. They don't need any healthcare
8 benefits.
9 Unemployment in Ohio, 6 percent. Are we
10 creating jobs? 140,000 just left. 300 from
11 my district this week left. But we're going
12 to talk about an issue that makes people feel
13 uncomfortable.
14 I met with Terry Anderson last week, the
15 hostage. Seven years, he was a hostage. He
16 sat in my office and he talked about the
17 things that he thought about. And he said to
18 me, you know, Senator, I don't think any of
19 those soldiers are getting up thinking about
20 who's gay down the street or about who's going
21 to marry who. They don't really care. They
22 care about making sure we protect them, making
23 sure that we're here to act on their behalf.
24 That's what they care about. They care about
25 making sure that we provide a good economic
52
1 opportunity for them when they come back into
2 this state.
3 Now, I don't want to diminish this --
4 this legislation, because it's extremely
5 important to some people, because it will take
6 away benefits. I'm not going to be part of
7 that. I'm not going to be part of taking away
8 anyone's benefits.
9 And I'm not going to let you sit there
10 with your straight faces and pretend that this
11 isn't political, because you know it's
12 political. When it comes down from above on
13 high and all through the states there's a
14 movement -- because, yes, Senator Goodman,
15 they did do some polling. Yes, they did find
16 out that it is a divisive issue, and it could
17 hurt someone in the next election.
18 When you cast your vote today, think
19 about it deeply, what it is that you're voting
20 on. Think about how you're really voting on
21 this bill for something other than what you're
22 standing up there and talking about.
23 I told one reporter that we have to be
24 honest about what this is. All of us have to
25 be honest. If your shirt is starting to itch
53
1 a little bit, that's good. Because I don't
2 care if you're uncomfortable. You should be
3 uncomfortable. We should all be
4 uncomfortable.
5 This is not the issue that the state of
6 Ohio and its taxpayers want us to deal with.
7 This is not the issue, Mr. President, that we
8 should be fighting for at this hour of the
9 day. I urge the defeat of the bill.
11 bill pass? Chair recognizes Senator Brady.
12 SENATOR BRADY: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 My colleague on the other side of the
15 aisle, who has championed this legislation for
16 the last few years indicated that we had been
17 debating this issue for the last few years.
18 And, in fact, we have been debating this issue
19 for at least 30 years. And I guess it's all
20 about how old you happened to be when you
21 entered the debate.
22 And there's been a tremendous amount of
23 progress made for gay rights, for gay civil
24 rights, and that's a very, very, good thing,
25 and it's part of the arc of history and social
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54
1 change in this country that's been occurring
2 for over 50 years. And there's no way to stop
3 it. There's no way to turn it back.
4 It's ironic, of course, that we passed
5 the 14th Amendment last year after a -- a
6 hundred years after a democratic-party
7 controlled legislature rescinded it. Because
8 somewhere down the roads -- we may not be
9 here, particularly because of term limits.
10 But somewhere down the road, the Ohio Senate
11 will be rescinding this legislation if they
12 pass it today.
13 And here's the thing I think is really a
14 shame. Because I'm convinced -- it's pretty
15 obvious that this Senate is at least pretty
16 evenly divided over this issue. And I'm
17 pretty convinced that the majority members of
18 this Senate actually are opposed to this
19 legislation, because they know it's wrong --
20 and this is always more effective when it
21 comes from someone on the other side of
22 aisle -- or they don't really think that this
23 is an issue that we should have in front of
24 us.
25 I'm pretty sure that a majority members
55
1 of -- members of this -- a majority of the
2 members of this Senate today would prefer not
3 to be voting for this bill. And that's a
4 shame, when minority can rule the Senate
5 through the intimidation and fear that
6 accompanies an issue like this. If only a
7 couple more senators had the courage to oppose
8 this bill, this wouldn't happen. And I know
9 you're over there somewhere.
10 I really don't understand this obsession
11 will denying gays their civil rights. Because
12 it is an obsession. Now, I know part of it is
13 a reaction to what's been going on around the
14 country: the Supreme Court decision over the
15 taxes law, what's gone on in Vermont, what's
16 gone on in Massachusetts, what's gone on in
17 Canada.
18 So, yes, it's very real. Because the
19 march of history is going in the right
20 direction. And it's true that we will be
21 condemned in the pages of history -- in the
22 pages of Ohio history down the road if we pass
23 this bill, in my opinion.
24 Now, for some people -- not everybody,
25 I'm sure -- this is simply a wedge issue.
56
1 We've seen so many of those things over the
2 years. It's just a way to divide people, just
3 a way to win an election, in spite of the fact
4 that we may be talking about denying a million
5 people in Ohio their rights -- and, in many
6 cases, some of the most talented people in
7 Ohio their rights.
8 Even the most humble citizen deserves
9 their civil rights. But it is a fact that we
10 have a tremendous number of talented gay
11 citizens in Ohio, and everyone knows it.
12 There's no point in pretending it's not the
13 case, that they don't make an incredible
14 contribution to our economy and to our lives,
15 that they're part of the diversity and
16 vibrancy of this state, and that we will
17 simply look foolish -- and we should -- to the
18 rest of the country and to the rest of our
19 citizens here in Ohio. As we lose over
20 100,000 manufacturing jobs, we stand here
21 trying to figure out a way to deny gays their
22 basic civil rights.
23 And we're all here in Columbus. I
24 understand that if you come from some small
25 town, like I originally did, this would be a
57
1 fairly unusual issue for you. But everybody
2 knows that almost all the metropolitan centers
3 of our country have tens of thousands of gay
4 citizens.
5 And we sit here in Columbus, which has
6 become a mecca for the gay community -- tens
7 of thousands of them, at least -- working in
8 our companies, working in our statehouse.
9 What are we pretending we're doing? Why are
10 we acting like we don't know the reality of
11 this issue? I know you're smarter than that.
12 I've heard you speak on lots of other issues.
13 And for those of you that are ideologically
14 committed, I understand that.
15 So, finally, I guess I'd just like to
16 say, whether you intended it or not, this is
17 bigoted legislation. That's what it is, and
18 that's the way it will be seen in history.
19 That is the way it will be seen.
20 So finally, what's wrong with gay
21 marriage? As far as this con -- senator is
22 consent -- is concerned, absolutely nothing.
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58
1 Mr. President.
2 Mr. President, there's been many eloquent
3 and thoughtful statements today, and I've
4 really enjoyed listening to them. I want to
5 add just a couple of very brief points.
6 Senator Hottinger mentioned that we shouldn't
7 say we've rushed this bill through because
8 it's been debated for seven years. But, in
9 fact, the truth is, we have rushed this bill
10 through.
11 And though we don't use legislative
12 history in Ohio when this issue gets to court,
13 there will undoubtedly be historians, Senator
14 Brady and Senator Goodman, who will be looking
15 at what we've done. And so maybe they'll dig
16 up the tape of today's hearing and -- or
17 today's debate.
18 And I would like to simply make sure that
19 when they do that, they know, for the record,
20 that this bill arrived in the Senate, I
21 believe, just towards the end of last year,
22 that it was referred just last week -- not to
23 the judiciary committee, which is the
24 committee that one would think such an issue
25 would be referred, but, rather, to the finance
59
1 committee.
2 We can only imagine why that occurred.
3 My guess is that -- that there were not the
4 votes on the -- on the Senate Civil J ustice
5 Committee to pass the bill, so it was the
6 intention of the committee of reference to
7 refer it to a bill where, in fact, there were
8 the votes to pass the bill.
9 There was not to be a hearing in the
10 Senate finance committee this week. We were
11 informed by the chairman that no such hearing
12 was scheduled. However, the chairman called
13 last Thursday, I believe -- is that correct --
14 Thursday to inform us that there'd been a
15 change in plans, that, in fact, there would be
16 a hearing in the Senate finance committee this
17 week, that it would consist of only one
18 bill -- even though there are other bills that
19 have been referred to the Senate finance
20 committee awaiting hearing -- that it -- that
21 bill would be heard beginning at 1:30 on
22 Tuesday -- what was yesterday, the 20th of --
23 the 20th of J anuary, 2004, ironically, the day
24 after we celebrated Martin Luther King's
25 birthday -- and that we would begin at 1:30
60
1 and we would continue until such time as all
2 testimony -- including sponsor testimony,
3 proponent testimony, and opponent testimony is
4 heard.
5 Now, those who are digging through
6 history watching this tape may not realize how
7 unusual that is. Normally, of course, we
8 schedule three separate hearings -- sponsor
9 testimony, proponent, opponent -- usually
10 weeks apart, but we did this all in one day,
11 and then the bill would be on the floor. It
12 would be scheduled for a vote the following
13 morning at 9:00 a.m. and then it would be on
14 the floor today as -- as it is; just some
15 facts for the record that somebody might want
16 to dig through today.
17 The -- during the course of the hearing,
18 as I noted earlier when I moved an amendment,
19 there was -- I think at the -- during the
20 sponsor testimony, most members of the
21 committee were there. But as the day went
22 on -- and it concluded, as Senator Prentiss
23 has reminded me, at 10:23 p.m. Every time I
24 say, approximately 10:00, she says, 10:23 p.m.
25 As the day went on, fewer and fewer members
61
1 were there to listen to the citizens of Ohio
2 who came forward, pro and con, to hear the
3 testimony. And, again, I would venture to
4 guess that maybe three members of the majority
5 and three members of the minority heard most
6 of the testimony.
7 This morning when we moved the
8 amendments -- just as happened on the floor
9 here today -- they were tabled without
10 substantive discussion. So the fact is, is
11 that we did move this bill in a rush. We can
12 only conclude -- we can only make speculations
13 to why we've done that. Others have
14 speculated. I'll -- I'll just simply say I
15 tend to agree with them, but I'll refrain from
16 repeating it. And -- and we have had -- and
17 less than half a dozen members in the Senate
18 heard the testimony, and none of us engaged in
19 a substantive debate about some of the
20 specific issues of concern.
21 I want to also point out a couple of the
22 pieces of information that were deduced at the
23 hearing yesterday, since you're about to vote
24 on this bill. And I will try to be as
25 objective as I can be in stating that
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62
1 information. But I'm sure if I
2 mischaracterize it, I'll be corrected.
3 The first is, is that in the seven years
4 or the eight years that this issue has been
5 before the legislature, the House sponsor
6 stated in response to a question that there
7 has been no case -- no case in Ohio
8 challenging Ohio's definition of marriage and
9 that there is currently no fact pattern or
10 case pending anywhere in Os -- in Ohio's
11 courts that challenges Ohio's definition of
12 marriage. Therefore, the urgency here is
13 truly -- Senator Brady's phrase about the
14 sweep of history, but it's certainly not about
15 anything happening in Ohio.
16 The second piece of information that was
17 deduced was that this ca -- this bill will
18 certainly spark more litigation. In other
19 words, we have zero cases today about this.
20 We will have cases in our courts after this
21 bill passes. The bill itself will be
22 challenged on equal protection grounds.
23 And as I alluded to when I offered an
24 amendment earlier, there will be challenges
25 based on the private awarding of benefits in
63
1 local communities, et cetera. All the things
2 that the sponsor -- the House sponsor is
3 certain won't be challenged will all be
4 challenged.
5 Some of us were discussing privately
6 earlier today that the irony is, is that for
7 those of you won't/don't want to see Ohio's
8 law struck down, you've just increased the
9 odds astronomically if you pass this bill,
10 because there will be a lawsuit. But
11 that's -- that will be one of the ironies of
12 the great sweep of history, I guess. But
13 there will be more litigation. So we're
14 creating more litigation.
15 The third fact that was deduced -- and I
16 guess this -- this one, maybe, is a little bit
17 debatable. I'll put it out there, though. It
18 certainly wasn't contested yesterday -- is
19 that the economic impact of this bill will be
20 serious to Ohio.
21 The chairman of the Senate finance
22 committee said that the reason it was in the
23 finance committee is -- was to look at the
24 economic impact, I believe, the financial
25 impact of the bill. And we did, in fact, have
64
1 testimony as to the economic impact.
2 Senator Brady alluded previously to the
3 fact that the city of Columbus is known
4 nationally as a community friendly to gay
5 couples. And it was mentioned in testimony
6 that the annual gay pride festival in Columbus
7 attracts -- is the largest such festival in
8 the Midwest, attracts 50, 60,000 people.
9 I actually happened to be here for it
10 this year. It was a pretty remarkable event.
11 Those people -- it's like a major convention.
12 Those people come, stay in hotels, go to
13 restaurants, et cetera, et cetera.
14 Some of you are familiar -- I apologize
15 if -- those from Cincinnati should probably
16 state this fact themselves. They'd get it
17 more accurate. But -- but there is an issue
18 in Cincinnati involving a city charter.
19 There's a boycott against the city of
20 Cincinnati as a result of a similar issue
21 called Article 12.
22 And the -- the director of the Greater
23 Cincinnati Convention and Visitor's Bureau has
24 indicated that she believes that through the
25 loss of convention business, specific
65
1 conventions that have been cancelled as a
2 result of the boycott, the city of Cincinnati
3 has lost roughly 40 to $45,000,000 in income.
4 We also heard -- as Senator Miller
5 alluded to earlier when he made his
6 amendment -- that -- that we would lose the
7 talents of people who would come to our
8 universities and to our colleges. We heard
9 from major businesses who are concerned about
10 recruiting employees. And we heard -- and
11 statistically insignificant, but powerful
12 testimony from individuals who've lived in
13 Ohio, worked in Ohio, and told us that they
14 will -- as soon as their children are safely
15 grown or as soon as their business situation
16 changes sufficiently, they will leave Ohio to
17 a place that is more welcoming for them.
18 I would simply say that the -- the
19 debates that we've had on this floor about the
20 economic situation in Ohio have been
21 interesting to me, and they have been
22 challenging. Some of us believe that it has
23 to do with investment and education and
24 technology and research and development.
25 Others say it's the lawyers that are filing
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1 too many lawsuits. I think the Secretary of
2 State believes it's the temporary sales tax we
3 enacted. All of these different options for
4 slowing down Ohio's progress.
5 I would simply say that if we pass this
6 bill, just get up and look in the mirror, and
7 you will see smiling back at you someone who
8 has slowed Ohio's progress as an economic
9 growth engine by putting up a sign that says
10 to a group of people, we don't want you here.
11 And no matter what -- I know the --
12 Senator Hottinger said earlier, this isn't a
13 gay-bashing bill. It is, in fact, viewed --
14 as we heard specific testimony yesterday --
15 repeatedly as a gay-bashing bill, as a hate
16 bill by the gay community in Ohio.
17 So let's make no mistake about what they
18 think about what we're doing. We can say
19 whatever we want. That's what they think.
20 That is what the reaction is -- is going to
21 be.
22 So, again, for the record, those are some
23 of the specific facts that were deduced in our
24 one day of hearing. And I think that you
25 ought to at least have the benefit of that one
67
1 day of hearings before you cast your vote.
2 Finally -- I'll be seated, but I do have
3 to say that I get a bit of a chuckle about
4 this bill. Because while I've probably been
5 one of the -- among the outspoken opponents of
6 it, my Senate office is one of the most
7 traditional marriage-oriented offices you've
8 ever seen in your life.
9 My legislative aide of, now, six years,
10 Sarah, who many of you know, was married the
11 summer after college, is now pregnant with her
12 second child. My administrative aide, Liz
13 Stewart Peron (phonetic) -- who's not here, I
14 don't think -- got married this summer right
15 as she graduated from college.
16 You all know that I'm blessed with my
17 wonderful wife and my two-year-old. We're
18 pretty much as traditional an office as you
19 can possibly have. And I have to say that not
20 one of us believes that this is a bill that's
21 necessary to defend our marriages.
22 And I was thinking abut why that is and
23 listening to my friend, Senator Goodman,
24 who -- most of you know that he and I share
25 our J ewish faith. And I realized that it is
68
1 because the state actually has nothing to do
2 with my marriage; nothing, whatsoever.
3 I was married -- my wife Amy and I were
4 married in the sight of God. When we signed
5 the J ewish marriage contract, when we
6 exchanged the commitments prescribed by our
7 faith under a canopy, which is the tradition
8 of our faith, that's before whom we're
9 married. If we were ever to contemplate
10 changing our marriage or ending our marriage,
11 we would similarly have to consult the tenets
12 of our faith. There is nothing the state of
13 Ohio has to do with that.
14 When, however, we start granting benefits
15 as a matter of law to people through the power
16 of the state, then we must be very careful
17 that we do so on an equal basis, trusting all
18 people equally.
19 And so a marriage is really a misnomer, I
20 think, when he talks about it as a matter of
21 state. Because I think we all believe that
22 marriage is a matter that we enter into in the
23 sight of God. And what we're talking about
24 here today is, in fact, the benefits and the
25 statutes of the state of Ohio. That should be
69
1 left alone, and I urge defeat of the bill.
2 PRESIDENT WHITE: Chair will recognize
3 Senator Dann.
4 SENATOR DANN: Mr. President, permission
5 to speak to the bill.
6 PRESIDENT WHITE: Gentleman may proceed.
8 It's only taken me a year to master the rules
9 here, so I'm getting better.
10 Ladies and gentlemen, I urge -- I, too,
11 urge the defeat of the bill. And much of what
12 I had planned to say today has already been
13 very eloquently said by my colleagues on
14 both sides off the aisle and, for that, I'm
15 very thankful, because they said it much
16 better than I could have.
17 But I think this bill, in this day, is
18 defined more by what it is not than what it
19 is. It's not about an effort to replace --
20 and, Senator Brady, I have to disagree with
21 you. We've lost Senate -- we've lot 230,000
22 manufacturing jobs in the state of Ohio.
23 We haven't done anything about that
24 today. We haven't done anything to improve
25 our school finance system in the state of Ohio
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1 that would create the kinds of schools that
2 would attract the kinds of business that would
3 create the manufacturing jobs that would put
4 people to work.
5 We haven't changed the tax code, which
6 discriminates against Ohio businesses, that
7 could create manufacturing jobs that we could
8 attract to this state. Because Ohio-only
9 businesses are greatly discriminated against
10 in our corporate franchise tax. And that's
11 something we've known about at least for a
12 year, since I've been here, and we're not
13 doing anything about that today. If we could
14 move a bill like that in a week, I'd be
15 delighted.
16 We are not doing anything to regulate the
17 massive importation of out-of-state waste into
18 our communities on the eastern edge of the
19 State of Ohio, and, believe me, they're coming
20 west. That's a bill that this Senate's
21 already passed in the last session, but we
22 can't -- and we could have done in a Week this
23 session, but we didn't take the time. That's
24 not what we're doing today.
25 We could have increased access to
71
1 college, the cost of which has increase --
2 increased over 50 percent so that we could
3 have trained workers to work in the
4 manufacturing plants that might come to this
5 state because of the improved economic
6 environment as a result. But we're not doing
7 that today either.
8 And all of those things are important
9 because there are now 500 -- and then soon to
10 be 1500 Ohioans who are serving in Iraq and
11 Afghanistan. And we haven't -- we had a
12 chance this week to do something which is to
13 get them body armor to protect them, and we're
14 not doing that today either. And we're not
15 giving them jobs to come back to --
16 PRESIDENT WHITE: Excuse me, Senator. I
17 think we're getting into some extraneous --
18 extraneous issues and --
19 SENATOR DANN: Thank you. Let me re --
20 PRESIDENT WHITE: -- and I -- I -- I
21 would appreciate it if we would stay on topic
22 of the bill. Rome was not built in a day, we
23 are not going to address all those things in
24 here today, and I would appreciate if the
25 gentleman would stay focused upon the bill.
72
2 I agree that we will not address those things,
3 any of those things, today.
4 Mr. President, members of the Senate,
5 Senator Fingerhut alluded a little bit to the
6 fact that we have a -- and so did Senator
7 Miller -- we have a clear definition of the
8 revised codes of marriage being between a man
9 and a woman.
10 I have a little news flash. There was a
11 court case recently, this year, in Trumbull
12 County, that was then decided by the 11th
13 District Court of Appeals and refused by the
14 Ohio Supreme Court that reaffirmed the fact
15 that only a man and woman can receive a
16 state-recognized Ohio marriage license.
17 And that case came out of our probate
18 court, where a transvestite who had been born
19 a woman, but became a man, wanted to marry
20 another woman, and a judge refused a marriage
21 license. The case was appealed. The case was
22 appealed again to the Supreme Court.
23 If your interest is in making sure that
24 state law is clear that marriage is between a
25 man and a woman, it's done. And this bill, as
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1 Senator Fingerhut correctly pointed out, is
2 only going to throw a wrench into that.
3 And if you truly want that right legally
4 protected, then the thing to do today is to
5 vote no on this bill. Because we're going
6 to have a firestorm of litigations. The
7 Constitutional issues are real. The
8 connection to benefits brings the whole
9 thing together for a judge.
10 And one of those liberal
11 Clinton-appointed judges that many of you
12 all fear is going issue an order that's
13 going to be binding on the state, and you'll
14 have nobody to thank for it but yourselves
15 by voting for this bill.
16 So we're not -- and Senator -- and my
17 colleague from -- from the other side of the
18 aisle talked about the fact that this isn't
19 denying anybody any benefits, that we're not
20 reducing anybody's access to benefits, yet
21 we -- we're tabling an amendment that simply
22 clarified the fact that there would be -- that
23 we would allow bereavement benefits for people
24 who lost a significant other.
25 And we didn't choose to include that in
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74
1 the bill, even though it wasn't a bill that's
2 going to deny anybody any benefits. Somehow
3 it wasn't -- it wasn't relevant enough to even
4 have an up or down vote on.
5 But the fact is that it's not -- if
6 Sen -- if Senator Hottinger's correct, and
7 we're not going to change anything in terms of
8 people's rights to benefits, and we're only
9 complicating the law regarding whether or not
10 a marriage is composed of a man and a woman in
11 the state of Ohio, and that's not, clearly,
12 the stated goal of the proponents of this
13 bill, then the only possible reason for
14 passing this bill, and doing it so quickly
15 today, in light of the state of the union and
16 in light of the political statements that have
17 been made around this country, is politics.
18 But this does not come without a price.
19 You may be able to use our votes on this bill
20 to win an election. And maybe you'll be able
21 to win more than one election based on our
22 votes on this bill. But the price for that
23 victory is going to be the extension of hate
24 throughout the state of Ohio.
25 And I respect Senator Harris and his
75
1 declaration that this was not about hate. But
2 all you have to do is read the bill. And
3 everybody who reads this bill and people who
4 are affected by it are going to suffer from
5 that hate.
6 So ladies and gentlemen, I urge the
7 defeat of the bill. And if the bill is
8 passed, I hope those election victories are
9 worth it for each of you.
11 Senator Fedor.
12 SENATOR FEDOR: Thank you, Mr. President.
13 Permission to speak to the bill?
14 PRESIDENT WHITE: Senator may proceed.
15 SENATOR FEDOR: Thank you.
16 You know, this doesn't feel like a good
17 day in the Senate. You know, I was proud to
18 be a senator my very first day. You know, I
19 came from the classroom. And this bill --
20 just sitting here and listening and knowing
21 the ramifications of, you know, the future of
22 Ohio and the problems we've already kind of
23 outlined remind me of something that I came
24 across.
25 And I know a lot of you have heard this,
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1 everything I learned, I learned in
2 kindergarten. And when I look and I think
3 back about all the children in the playground,
4 I'm wondering how many of those children when
5 they grow up in Ohio are going be judged,
6 labeled, and, therefore, have to live out a
7 potential law like this.
8 And I think that this is going to be a
9 hard bill for all of us to have to explain in
10 the end. And it's a serious, serious, you
11 know, a serious debate. I think it's
12 something that we should take more time -- it
13 was very much a surprise to all of us. It's
14 something we've all travailed about.
15 And I want you to think about it. Are we
16 sending a message to the citizens of Ohio that
17 tells them that the legislative priorities of
18 this state are skewed? We have bills in both
19 chambers of the legislator -- legislature that
20 are designed specifically to protect and
21 support servicemen and women and their
22 families, but these are not a priority today.
23 Apparently, this bill is.
24 We have bills introduced in both chambers
25 of the legislature that are meant to protect
77
1 our state's children and ensure a positive
2 future for them, but these are not the
3 priority today, but this bill is.
4 We are taking chances with the core right
5 to democracy, the ability to vote, and the
6 public's feeling of security in knowing that
7 their vote has counted. Yet, this is not a
8 priority today and, apparently, this bill is.
9 Well, I have news for you. And as you've
10 heard before, this bill is unconstitutional, a
11 litigation nightmare, a squirmy can of worms.
12 This bill will not make it through a challenge
13 in the court.
14 And, unfortunately, I -- this is a very
15 hard statement for me to say. But I'm
16 thinking about those children now that are
17 going to grow up and be adults and be labeled,
18 judged, and have to live out the ramifications
19 of what may happen in the business world that
20 we may be sending. And some of us legislators
21 may be sending that our priorities are hate,
22 exclusion, and discrimination.
23 This issue is not a divider, not a
24 uniter, and we should not do this to the
25 citizens of the State of Ohio, so I urge a no
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78
1 vote. Thank you.
3 Senator J ordan.
4 SENATOR J ORDAN: Thank you,
5 Mr. President.
6 Someone once said -- and I wish I knew
7 who made this statement, because I think it's
8 so accurate -- when marriage means everything,
9 it ceases to mean anything. And I think
10 that's so true. When you begin to allow
11 marriage to be defined in more than one way,
12 you're on a slippery slope.
13 And we've heard comments from the other
14 side about the march of history, the sweep of
15 history. We've heard about progress. But I
16 just want to point out a question that -- that
17 I think should come to mind. Where does it
18 all take us? Where does it end?
19 And I just want to point to an -- an
20 article that appeared -- it's an Associated
21 Press story that appeared back -- I got
22 the Dayton Daily News copy from
23 December 2nd, 2003. And the headline says,
24 Polygamist says case should be tossed out.
25 Tom Green, who is not (inaudible) with any
79
1 insurance was convicted of four counts of
2 bigamy and one count of criminal nonsupport of
3 his 30 children in August of 2001.
4 His lawyer -- representing the guy with,
5 quote, five wives -- argued that his bigamy
6 conviction should be thrown out following the
7 Supreme Court decision decriminalizing gay
8 sex; quote from his lawyer. I mean, this
9 is -- when I think about this, this was
10 actually made -- this argument made in an
11 American court of law.
12 It's no different for polygamists, argued
13 Tom Green's attorney, J ohn Booker, to the Utah
14 Supreme Court. I mean, I think about the
15 march of -- this -- this is why -- and people
16 said, this is not important, we should be
17 dealing with taxes and we should be dealing
18 with whatever other policy.
19 This is why it's important. Many of us
20 on, I guess, the conservative side have talked
21 a lot -- talked a lot about this slippery
22 slope on other social issues. I mean, here it
23 is. And this -- this argument's being made in
24 an American court of law.
25 The chief justice -- I saw the quote from
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1 the chief justice of the Massachusetts Supreme
2 Court when they okayed the civil unions and
3 the same-sex marriage issue in Massachusetts,
4 and she said this -- and I think maybe Senator
5 J acobs may speak about this more, but I
6 thought it was -- it was interesting what she
7 said.
8 She said, simply put, government creates
9 civil marriage. I would totally disagree.
10 Senator Fingerhut just said he totally
11 disagrees. He said it's not the state that
12 was involved in his marriage, it was the
13 church. I mean, it's -- it's not -- it's
14 separate from the state. And I would argue
15 that's exactly right.
16 And -- and I -- I'm not sure I read --
17 but this is so -- government doesn't create
18 marriage, it recognizes it. And why does it
19 recognize it? Because we have understood over
20 a hundred -- we recognize it, we give it
21 special status, because we understand it's the
22 best arrangement for raising children.
23 I mean, that's ultimately what it boil --
24 it's the best arrangement for raising -- not
25 to say kids in some other situations don't
81
1 turn out fine, aren't wonderful people.
2 Government has traditionally understood --
3 historically understood that traditional
4 marriage is the best arrangement for raising
5 kids, that -- I mean, how many times on this
6 floor -- I can remember back to my days in the
7 house when we -- when we did welfare ref -- we
8 talk about moms and dads being involved in
9 kids' -- we talk about the fam -- we talk
10 about the fact that -- when we did welfare
11 reform, we talked about the fact that fathers
12 aren't involved enough in their -- that's what
13 this is all about, ultimately what this issue
14 is about.
15 That's why this is important legislation.
16 That's why it's important that we pass this.
17 That's why it's important that the state of
18 Ohio make a public policy statement about what
19 marriage really is. That's why it's
20 significant. Ultimately, it comes down to
21 what is the best arrangement for raising
22 children.
23 If the sweep of history is going to lead
24 us to -- to headlines like this and that
25 things hap -- it's wrong. We need to stop it.
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82
1 We need to make a stand and say, no,
2 traditional marriage, the way it's
3 historically been defined, is right because
4 it's best for kids. I would urge a yes
5 vote.
7 Senator Zurz.
8 SENATOR ZURZ: Thank you, Mr. President.
9 Permission to speak to the bill? Thank you.
10 PRESIDENT WHITE: The senator may
11 proceed.
12 SENATOR ZURZ: Thank you.
13 I had not intended on speaking today. I
14 hate that this is my first opportunity to
15 address you on this floor. Actually, I'm
16 ashamed that it's my first opportunity.
17 I came in here very torn on how I would
18 vote on this issue, because I completely
19 support a husband and wife marriage. I have
20 been married for quite some time to my
21 husband. I have three absolutely terrific
22 children. I hope that each one of them gets
23 to grow up and choose to have a partner in
24 their life that they can share. I can't
25 imagine not having my husband in my life, and
83
1 I hope someday they have the privilege of that
2 same kind of feeling.
3 But I got to tell you, if one of my
4 children come to me someday and tell me, Mom,
5 I think I might want a partner that isn't
6 necessarily of the opposite sex, I'm not going
7 to love them any less. I'm not going to look
8 at them any differently. And I am very
9 ashamed that we are putting them in that
10 position today.
11 And I would love to believe that that is
12 not the intention of this legislation. But I
13 keep sitting here reading 3101 that we
14 presently have. And I guess I listened to
15 Senator J ordan, and I go to 3101, and, by
16 golly, if it didn't flat out there tell me
17 that it is between a husband and a wife, a
18 male and a female.
19 I'm more offended, actually, that the
20 female can be 16 years old. I got news for
21 you. I think that's absurd. I -- you know,
22 I'd hate to see my 16-year-old come to me and
23 tell me she can get married. I got -- I'd
24 have a whole 'nother list of arguments for
25 her.
84
1 But we aren't addressing whether she
2 should be 16. I think we should be. But
3 it -- it's very clear that it says, and not
4 having a husband or wife living may be joined
5 in marriage. So, obviously, thank goodness,
6 the option there to have those two husbands or
7 wives would be out of question by our law in
8 the state of Ohio.
9 When I put my hand in the air and I swore
10 to uphold these laws, I believed very strongly
11 in that. And I think that it says that here.
12 My fear as to what we're doing today -- and I
13 know I could take the safe route out. I'm not
14 stupid. You know, I might not have been down
15 here long, but I've been doing this for a
16 while, and it is political. And it's sad.
17 It's very sad.
18 I know I look around this room -- and
19 I've gotten to know enough people for a while
20 here. There's a lot of people that can't be
21 comfortable with this decision today. And
22 there's a lot of people who've got to walk out
23 of this room ashamed of what they've had to
24 do. And I feel badly for you. I do.
25 Because I know we're uncomfortable.
85
1 Because I know this hasn't been given the
2 time, it hasn't been given the thoughtfulness
3 that it should have been, and we are
4 discriminating against people, and I really
5 don't think that's what we came here to do. I
6 really believe most of the folks on this floor
7 have very good intentions.
8 And when I decided to come down here, it
9 was because I want to do good things for the
10 state of Ohio. I want to make economic
11 development a positive thing here. We need it
12 so desperately. I want our kids to have books
13 to read out of. I want to know that my
14 children go into a safe neighborhood. I care
15 about the things that the people at home care
16 about.
17 And while this may be turned into the
18 issue that they care about -- because the
19 sound bytes are going to be there, and I'm
20 sure the money's going to be behind the sound
21 bytes, and we're all going to fall into the
22 trap.
23 But I certainly hope we don't forget, the
24 rest of this year, to really address what's
25 necessary. And I certainly hope we remember
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86
1 when we've done this, we have hurt people, and
2 have done an -- an unnecessary thing. Because
3 we've got a law here that already has done the
4 necessary thing.
5 I hope we don't pass laws continually
6 that are irrelevant, and, unfortunately, this
7 is one of those. I will join the other
8 members of the -- I can pretty much guess --
9 18 to 15 number here that will be voting no.
10 And I'm going to do that because I'm
11 trying -- I'm trying to understand why we are
12 so focused on something that really isn't a
13 hot topic at home. They care what's in their
14 pocket at the end of the day. They care how
15 they put food on their table. They care what
16 school their kid's going to. They care about
17 what affects them day to day.
18 And while, certainly, high morality is a
19 very important issue, I think we have it in
20 the state of Ohio. I think we're almost
21 saying we didn't have it, and we should be
22 more ashamed of that.
23 Thank you, Mr. President.
25 Senator Armbruster.
87
1 SENATOR ARMBRUSTER: Thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 I look upon the Senate floor today and I
4 see the gallery out there. As we're intently
5 listening to -- in my five years being here --
6 one of the most important debates ever to be
7 discussed on this floor -- with my little kids
8 and my big kids, from age 6 to 35, and my
9 three wives, two of which have died of
10 leukemia, I've always tried to teach a diverse
11 lifestyle with my children, as how they accept
12 one another, no matter what race, color,
13 creed, where they go -- all the different
14 things that they look at.
15 When I look at my children from age 36,
16 now, to 6, each one of them are different.
17 And I look at my extended family beyond that,
18 of my five brothers and my sister, and I look
19 at their diverse family, and I look at what
20 they have done. And some of their lifesyles
21 are gay.
22 And if you're in that side -- on that
23 dark side over there, for the years that they
24 are over there, without the diversity that we
25 have seen in the last ten years, you find
88
1 individuals that -- they are shunned by their
2 family. They have a lifestyle that no one can
3 accept, yet, they are not trying to change
4 anyone else's lifestyle. They are not trying
5 to change my lifestyle, my kids' lifestyle.
6 And we may look at the companies in the
7 state of Ohio that have diverse benefit pan --
8 plans. These companies can continue to offer
9 these plans to their employees regardless of
10 their diverse lifestyle. But, yet, as we move
11 forward in this bill -- and depending on how
12 it goes into place after the fact, if it's
13 signed, is to -- is, in fact, NCR or The
14 Limited going to be able to attract those
15 diverse lifestyles or those diverse people
16 that want to come to the state of Ohio, and
17 knowing that the state of Ohio is not open to
18 the prospects of having -- having a union
19 ceremony or being -- recognizing, not a
20 marriage, but a commitment to one another in
21 life?
22 And there's nothing wrong to that
23 commitment. You make that commitment to your
24 wife, to our husband. You can make that
25 commitment to a sorority sister, you can make
89
1 that commitment to a fraternity brother, or
2 any place you want to, and have a commitment
3 to live with another one and enjoy one
4 another's company, to grow, and to prosper.
5 And in this diverse so -- society that we
6 live in, I have friends that are gay that are
7 raising children. And, quite honestly, my
8 kids, the younger ones and the older ones,
9 will accept that.
10 I wish the best for all of our families
11 out here. And I wish the best for my children
12 as they grow up. But the one thing that we
13 should look at is the unconditional love that
14 we should give to our families, to our
15 extended families, and the love that we should
16 have for the state of Ohio, for not only its
17 economic growth, but to be a diverse society
18 willing to accept all things, being able to
19 negotiate, being able to mediate, being able
20 to handle the controversy in coming up with an
21 agreement and a prospect.
22 As I sit here today -- and I'm going to
23 vote no on this issue -- we will all
24 continue -- as I see in our eyes, we will all
25 continue to work on this issue to try to make
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90
1 it better for one side or another, and that's
2 great. But it's a sad day for us today to
3 take the steps that we're taking today if this
4 bill is to pass. I urge the defeat of the
5 bill.
7 Senator Prentiss.
8 SENATOR PRENTISS: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 I'd like to speak in favor -- against the
11 bill and -- and in favor of Armbruster, in
12 favor of so many people here who shared
13 themselves.
14 The west broadly construed as western
15 civilization may not have a monopoly on the
16 truth and the right or only way to live, but,
17 certainly, this western civilization that we
18 belong to has contributed a number of
19 important progressive steps throughout
20 history.
21 But we are not making such a contribution
22 today. That is not what we have before us
23 today with House Bill 272, so-called defense
24 of marriage or denial of benefits. This bill
25 is not progress; it's discrimination, good
91
1 old-fashioned discrimination.
2 It's so ironic that we pass this bill
3 only two days after we celebrated our Martin
4 Luther King's birthday, a national holiday
5 named after the descendant of a slave.
6 I'm going to take a minute here. Because
7 every time I hear it, it brings me to another
8 level. So I just want to repeat for you some
9 of the things that Dr. King said in 1963. And
10 by the way, in 1963, I was on that mall in
11 Washington DC.
12 And what basically happened -- there were
13 black, brown, white -- you know, I was a
14 youngster at the time. But we sat there as a
15 sea of youngsters holding hands, walking up
16 the Lincoln Memorial Mall -- burning up hot
17 outside. I remember just sitting on the
18 grass. That's when we all had signs, singing,
19 we shall overcome some day. It was -- it's
20 one of these things you'll never forget.
21 Of course, I won't tell you I went home
22 to a husband who beat me. But let me just
23 stick with Dr. King at that point. He said,
24 let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I
25 say to you today my friends that even though
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1 we face the difficulties of tomorrow and
2 today, I still have a dream. It's a dream
3 deeply rooted in the American dream. It's a
4 dream that one day this nation will rise up
5 and live out the true meaning of its creed.
6 We hold these truths to be self-evident that
7 all men are created equal, that all men are
8 created equal.
9 He goes on, Senator Gardner, to say, I
10 have a dream that my four children will one
11 day live in a nation that will not be judged
12 by the color of their skin but by the content
13 of their character.
14 And, finally, he says, I have a dream
15 that little black boys, little white boys,
16 little black boy -- girls, will hold hands
17 together.
18 Well, I, CJ Prentiss, born again, if you
19 will, in the civil rights movement, have a
20 dream that one day our society will be fully
21 accepting of all of our brothers and sisters,
22 regardless of whether they are gay, straight,
23 black, brown, or white.
24 The old Biblical saying is, we are all
25 precious in His sight. That's my dream,
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1 equality for all in all aspects of life, not
2 how I came into the world, frankly, as
3 three-fifths of a person or denied the right
4 to vote or live where or how or with whom I
5 wanted to live.
6 It's a testimony to your society's
7 ability to progress and to partially, at
8 least, correct past wrongs that we do
9 celebrate Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday.
10 When we sat there in our various churches and
11 gave our various speeches across the state of
12 Ohio just two days ago, recognizing, because
13 we were elected leaders in the state, we
14 claimed that we would build on Dr. King's
15 dream.
16 He let -- he laid the road map, but we
17 said we would build on it. We would celebrate
18 past wrongs, Martin Luther King Day after 340
19 years of channeled slavery, 100 years after
20 J im Crow, 40 years after the great society,
21 and even today, when the remnants -- where the
22 remnants of discrimination still continue.
23 But we do, as a nation, and have, as a
24 nation, made progress. We develop. We figure
25 out how to live together, to accept each
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1 other, and that, really, is the key point.
2 This bill is about the lack of acceptance
3 of some by others. It embodies a mean spirit,
4 nonpluralism, nonpluralistic attitude that
5 says, my way or no way. This bill imposes one
6 set of values not held by all on the entire
7 state of Ohio without regard to diversity and
8 pluralism, without regard, even, to the US
9 Constitution, which requires equal treatment
10 for all.
11 If this bill merely dealt with marriage,
12 per se, then even then I would still have some
13 concerns. But if this bill did limit
14 marriage, the ability to marry to some
15 religiously based conception of marriage, then
16 we could have a discussion about the
17 appropriate use of religiously based concept
18 in the law of our state in the context of
19 separation of church and state, separation of
20 church and state, which our Constitution and
21 out society is founded on.
22 But this bill prohibits the state from
23 extending the benefits of marriage, and we've
24 heard all the denials that it gives us. How
25 ironic, frankly, that we still face
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1 religiously based discrimination in our
2 country, a country founded by those who fled
3 England to escape religious persecution in the
4 early 1960s. How ironic that today, almost
5 500 years later, we are here enacting into law
6 discrimination so that the few can impose
7 their religious values -- religious values on
8 the many and deny full persons to all in the
9 process.
10 I want to stop a minute and thank the
11 chairman of the committee. You didn't have to
12 do what you did, Bill, Senator Harris. I
13 appreciate it. And you led the committee with
14 dignity.
15 But I want to challenge one thing,
16 though. We start out talking about the
17 Defense of Marriage Act by President Clinton,
18 who was unfaithful -- thank you -- to his
19 wife. I'd like to resurrect, if you will,
20 another president who spoke very clearly to
21 the issue of religious freedom. It's the
22 words of J ohn Kennedy, when his presidential
23 candidacy was challenged because of his faith,
24 I believe in an America that is officially
25 neither Catholic, Protestant, nor J ewish,
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1 where no public official either requests or
2 accepts instructions on public policy from the
3 Pope, the National Council of Churches, or any
4 other ecclesiastic source, where no religious
5 body seeks to impose its will directly or
6 indirectly upon the general populous or the
7 public acts of its office, officials, and
8 where religious liberty is so indivisible that
9 an act against one church is treated as an act
10 against all.
11 The concept of marriage, as we Christians
12 and J ews believe, is founded in our Bibles,
13 our Bibles. Some people don't fall into these
14 categories, thank you very much. But in 1600,
15 we said, all you all come. In 1600, we
16 escaped England because we were under
17 somebody's idea of what's the right way and
18 what's the right religion.
19 Previously, society has discriminated on
20 the base of race, sex, gender, religion,
21 region, language, ability -- I'm sure I'm
22 missing a few -- over 200 years. A nation was
23 founded -- again, I was only three-fifths of a
24 person. And I understand you all know that
25 I'm married to a white male, but in 1967,
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1 some states still said that this was illegal.
2 Some states still said that this was illegal.
3 Some churches spoke from the pulpit of the
4 devaluing of races. And, now, we even have,
5 in countries, religious fighting to see who's
6 on top, still haven't figured this one out;
7 was not fully a person in people's eyes.
8 Today, again, we are not allowing people
9 different from us to be considered full
10 persons. We uphold ourselves as a pluralistic
11 society, yet we legislate exclusion.
12 Some say that we are doing this because
13 the courts across America have begun an
14 assault on the traditional concept of
15 marriage. Yes, our society is changing. We
16 have to struggle to ensure the rights of all.
17 Resistance to change is a fatal flaw of our
18 society. The majority seeks to oppress the
19 minority, to reshape the minority in its
20 image. As recently as the '60s in some
21 communities, we're still denying the rights.
22 Seventeen states proclaimed illegal, again,
23 for me to marry.
24 As a society, the majority, those in
25 power, often deny the ability of the minority.
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1 Those excluded from traditional conceptions,
2 the ability to fully participate in the good,
3 the bounty of society.
4 But we, as a society, given all of that,
5 have evolved. Things have changed. The
6 question is, how quickly do we want to evolve
7 and more fully include more people into our
8 society? The question is, how many will be
9 hurt in the process because they have been
10 denied marriage benefits, tax advantages,
11 parental rights?
12 I must speak to a definition of marriage
13 as one that means that you can raise good
14 children. My mom, as you guys know, is 91
15 years old. She's been diagnosed with
16 dementia/Altzheimer's. We do this once a --
17 on the weekends, we keep her as a family.
18 Now, I raised my kids as a single mom,
19 Senator J ordan, for almost 18 years. Those
20 boys -- first one was all-state wrestler, as
21 you know, the McIntosh brothers. But those
22 boys, at age 40, and 42, with their families
23 have decided -- and they don't have to do
24 this -- that they're going to take care of my
25 mama, give up their weekends every other
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1 weekend. We do; me, them, and -- so every
2 three weekends. I did something right.
3 There are many, many, many alternative
4 families out there that we have no control
5 over. I think Armbruster got it right. It's
6 the love of peace. I mean, we have defined
7 marriage in law. I put forth an amendment
8 that said, why don't we outlaw or prohibit
9 divorce. Would you have supported that,
10 prohibit divorce?
11 But we know -- and what is it -- somebody
12 give me some statistics -- an average marriage
13 lasts seven years -- five years? My goodness.
14 50 percent of the people are married --
15 what -- 10 percent of the people are married?
16 I'm not making fun of it. It is our
17 institution. But don't hold it to be
18 something that it's not. Respect our religion
19 that sanctifies marriage, but respect other
20 people's belief that they do not choose to
21 fall into that category.
22 I ask -- I could go on. Believe me, I've
23 even cut this short. Because I did have all
24 of Dr. King's speech, and I could have made
25 you listen to all of it. And thank you, Mr.
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1 President.
2 But it does mean a lot to all of us
3 that -- that really, frankly, just don't
4 understand -- don't understand. I don't
5 understand. I urge you to not --
6 PRESIDENT WHITE: Chair --
7 SENATOR PRENTISS: -- support the bill.
9 Senator DiDonato.
10 SENATOR DiDONATO: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 I think I'm the last one on this side.
13 So for the ones who are anxious to get out of
14 here, that's the good thing, I guess. But I'm
15 also going to have a little bit of a story.
16 Because, see, I represent (inaudible --
17 sound like roll high) and am in a very strong
18 catholic family. Because I've told so many,
19 my father is 82 years old, and I can count
20 about one time how many times he's
21 missed church, one -- on one hand how many
22 times my father has missed church.
23 It also bothers me, I guess, just in
24 theory. All this weekend, I thought about a
25 lot of different things, but I think it does
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1 come back to your roots and who you are and
2 what you're about.
3 I also think that what I am today is a
4 product of what I learned. I didn't learn it
5 from government. I didn't learn it from the
6 from people in elected office. I learned it
7 from my parents, my family.
8 You know, I grew up most -- I graduated
9 in '80 in high school, but I grew up in the
10 '70s, I mean. And I remember the stories that
11 my parents often taught. See, this
12 discrimination and how these things happen and
13 what class of people, they've happened in so
14 many different varieties a way in life.
15 But I grew up -- remember my parents
16 talking about several divides. One my father
17 talking about -- there was this imaginary line
18 down Second Street. If you were on the right
19 side of Second Street, that's where the
20 Catholics stayed on. If you were the left
21 side -- the Catholic school people. If you
22 were on the left side, that's where the public
23 schools -- and if you crossed that imaginary
24 line, you got the crap kicked out of you by
25 the other side. That was common practice, and
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1 they knew that.
2 And I could never understand that as a
3 kid. Because I looked at them and -- there
4 was no religion line when I grew up. I didn't
5 even really ever knew what my friends were. I
6 only may have knew that they were Catholic
7 because I'd seen them in church.
8 For the rest of them, I've never asked.
9 It wasn't my business. I didn't know if they
10 went to church, whether they didn't, what
11 religion or what. Because, really, that was
12 not my business. I respected their religion
13 and their business.
14 And then, you know, I heard about when my
15 mother and my father met. My mother is
16 Scottish-Irish, country girl, Lutheran -- oh,
17 God forbid. Her parents had a fit. You're
18 seeing an Italian, a dark-skinned Italian?
19 They're Ca -- they're Catholics?
20 The persecution they went through -- Dad
21 was 27, Mom was 20 when they first met roller
22 skating. They used to sneak to the roller
23 skating place so they could meet. And they
24 had to sneak for months. Finally broke it to
25 their parents to only have to go through basic
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1 living hell on both sides. That's just
2 untraditional. You don't do that.
3 But in the end, it finally worked out.
4 They both come to acceptance. We went on many
5 family vacations together. Our grandma and
6 grandpas went with us. Matter of fact, I was
7 going through a lot of them this weekend,
8 making a thing for my new house, a mural of
9 all my grandparents, a family tree.
10 And then I also heard about the job
11 discrimination. My father worked for the
12 Pennsylvania Railroad. My grandfather came
13 here. And that's kind of why they become the
14 Roosevelt democrats, because that's when --
15 back then, they made some work rules and
16 safeties and -- at the time when the unions
17 did start. But the union, see, that ended
18 discrimination.
19 My father used to talk about, as a
20 railroader, Catholics and Italians never got
21 promoted. Whenever a job come open that they
22 could move up, they were always looked over.
23 That was common. That was the practices. But
24 when they got the work rules in and they got a
25 contract, they were structured, and they had
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1 to respect and they had to abide, and no
2 longer did that happen.
3 Forgot to tell you another thing. The --
4 great story. My mom and dad got married. My
5 mother lived in the village of Tuscarawas in
6 Tuscarawas County, which we call Tuscy. And
7 what's fascinating is, back in those times,
8 during the depression, you moved in, normally,
9 with one of your parents. And my mother moved
10 up -- got married and moved in with my dad's
11 parents on Center Street.
12 I think with less than a week she was
13 there, she woke up in the middle of the
14 night -- my father, at that time, was the new
15 guy in the railroad, so he used to work
16 midnight shifts. She only had to wake up
17 about 3:00 in the morning to only -- there was
18 a second house in sight from the corner -- to
19 wake up to see a cross ignited, burning on the
20 corner.
21 See, back then, we had the KKK in our
22 area. And people have passed away since then.
23 Being there and living there, we have found
24 the old robes in a lot of these people homes
25 if they passed away. But, back then, they
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1 used to burn crosses at Catholic Italian
2 homes. That was very common. Because my
3 mother was terrified. She used to ask my
4 father, what the heck? What did you get me
5 into? That was just something she had never
6 seen in her whole lifetime.
7 So, you know, all this weekend, I had to
8 deal with those upbringings and those
9 understandings and these emotions. Because,
10 see, we're not here about -- debating about
11 marriage between man and women. That's not
12 what I'm voting for. That was law before, and
13 it'll be law in this. But we're going beyond
14 that with the benefits, and that's where I
15 have a problem.
16 Because, see, I believe marriage is
17 between man and women. That's not a debate
18 with me. But I have a real problem when I
19 start infringing and crossing the line and
20 hurting others. Because, see, our Bible
21 says -- God commands us, you shall love your
22 neighbor. You shall love your neighbor.
23 And you mean to tell me when we look at
24 God and we see God in our dying days -- you
25 know, there's a difference between marriage
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1 here and economically hurting somebody, taking
2 away their benefits and harming them
3 economically. There's a difference, folks.
4 We need to learn to respect that.
5 And that's why it goes back to -- when I
6 was growing up in the '70s and I heard these
7 stories, I used to look at my mom and dad --
8 and, you know, we're all cocky and smart --
9 and I used to think, oh, you guys are crazy.
10 It couldn't have been that bad. And I used to
11 think how blessed I am. Because, see, that
12 didn't happen then.
13 And sometimes my parents would warn me
14 about, well, be careful with that family,
15 about staying overnight with them. I remember
16 his grandfather, what he did to our family,
17 how he treated Catholics then, how he hated
18 us. And I used to say, oh, Dad, you don't
19 know what you're talking about. We're great
20 friends. We play football together. We play
21 sports, you know, we're good friends. What
22 are you talking about? I don't want to hear
23 that. I just want to stay overnight over at
24 house with two or three of us, play cards or
25 whatever. Well, I'm just warning you, Son, I
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1 know the history. And I used to think they
2 were crazy.
3 And what really bothers me, I see a
4 repeat of this. It's just a different day.
5 It's a different group of people. We're not
6 the victims. Catholics don't mean nothing
7 today. Italian, light skin don't mean much
8 today. We've moved beyond that, as history
9 has said. We've moved beyond that. What
10 we're doing today is mean-spirited. It's
11 wrong. It's just plain wrong.
12 And, you know, when you talk about
13 traditional family -- I'm going to make a
14 comment, because I hadn't already planned --
15 to my colleague, Senator J ordan. You know, my
16 parents have been married 60 years. I got
17 three brothers beside me. My oldest been
18 married 32 years; my second oldest one, 30;
19 and my third one, 20 years. He lives in
20 Dublin. There's not a divorce in our family.
21 You know, I grew up in a family that
22 taught me, be worry -- beware of people who
23 maybe -- you know, when it come to religion,
24 my father said, you know, you don't preach it
25 and talk it, you live it. You live it.
108
1 Because you know what, you never have to
2 question if somebody is Godly. Their examples
3 and their behaviors will show you that. And
4 in 42 years, I do agree on that. I've seen
5 that. I've learned a lot -- all of us --
6 through this lifestyle.
7 Because, you know, back then, we'd have
8 people knock on our door and preach the faith
9 and everything else. And father said -- my
10 father used to again repeat, you learn a lot
11 from the person. And, you know, when you talk
12 about family values, that's what it goes back
13 to. Government don't teach us that. I -- I
14 never learned anything.
15 Matter of fact, my first interest in
16 politics was in the early '80s. And my father
17 used to go livid when Ronald Reagan talked
18 about fo -- family values. And he said, he's
19 the first -- first divorced president of the
20 United States, don't tell me about family
21 values.
22 And my father, I'll tell you, called Bill
23 Clinton a pig, when that came out. He was
24 disgusted as a Catholic. A disgrace. And he
25 also has problems with people, even, in the
109
1 White House now, because he thinks that the
2 person -- my father didn't drink and carouse
3 until he was 40 years old. He got married.
4 He worked. He took care of his family. He
5 met the needs. He supported us from day one.
6 He didn't have to wait till he was 40 to clean
7 up his act.
8 So when you talk about family values,
9 don't look at government. Don't look at
10 government. Don't preach it to me, because I
11 didn't learn it from a lot of them. I see the
12 world today -- like you said, lots of
13 divorces.
14 I was mayor. We used to have mayor's
15 court back home, Mr. President. If you seen
16 the photographics (sic) -- you know, we no
17 longer can do it, but back in the mayor's
18 court, we used to be able to hold domestic
19 viol -- we used to be able to hear, at that
20 time, like DUIs, domestic violence. If you
21 seen some of the pictures and the beatings I
22 used to see -- and when you heard those cases,
23 it was disgusting.
24 Because, see, I'd never seen that. My
25 parents weren't perfect. They had theirs ups
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1 and downs. They had their yelling matches
2 once in a while, of course, hot-blooded
3 Italians. But they loved each other. They
4 respect each other. And as far as I know, to
5 this day -- and I would vow on my life -- they
6 were faithful all the way through, both of
7 them, in their marriage, all the way through
8 to each other.
9 And so when we talk about traditional
10 marriage, you know, there could be some of us
11 says, well, you know, why don't we outlaw
12 divorce or why don't we, if they get divorced,
13 take away the health insurance or the benefits
14 of the children to punish them and make them
15 stay together?
16 But, see, we're not proposing that today.
17 Because, see, that's -- 50 percent of
18 Americans would be affected. This is about
19 divide. It is about hate. It is about
20 getting someone elected, about an issue. It's
21 a sad day. It really is a sad day.
22 I was at a benefit Saturday night and
23 told a couple of -- group of primary Catholics
24 I happened to be with that night at the
25 benefit -- and most of them are reborn
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1 Catholics, which means they are more
2 traditional. And we talked about this. And
3 we all said, well, we do believe that marriage
4 is between a man and woman.
5 But they also looked at me and said, can
6 you imagine -- can you imagine in 2004 we're
7 talking about messing with people's health
8 insurance and their benefits? You would think
9 by now we'd be a better, more smarter and
10 educated society, but we still repeat the
11 wrongdoings of the past. It's just with a
12 different group of people today.
13 History will rewrite this. I agree with
14 you, Senator Armbruster. History will rewrite
15 this.
16 So in closing -- because I know some of
17 you have already made comments to me today
18 that are going to vote for this that, you
19 know, you don't even want this on the floor
20 today. It's a shame it came to the floor. It
21 really is a shame. It should have never come
22 to this level, and not in the style it did.
23 See, another thing I would echo with
24 Senator Fingerhut, if you truly believed in
25 what you were doing, you'd have never snuck it
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1 in the middle of the night on Thursday,
2 announced it on Martin Luther King Weekend,
3 and cut off the hearing process the way you
4 did. And the House is over there waiting for
5 us to pass this so they can concur. You're
6 not even doing this because you feel good
7 about it. It's how fast you can get it done.
8 So, again, I urge -- I urge all of you to
9 dig in. Dig in your heart and soul and your
10 guts and say what's right or wrong here. You
11 know, I think, like I said, we are a nation
12 who learns from our past. That's the history
13 that I heard from my parents.
14 And, like I said, you want to talk about
15 traditional marriage -- I would caution people
16 talking about that, because traditional
17 marriage, to me, is my parents being married
18 60 years and being faithful to each other.
19 That's real traditional marriage. That's real
20 traditional marriage. Thank you.
21 PRESIDENT WHITE: Recognizes Senator
22 Amstutz.
23 REPRESENTATIVE: Thank you,
24 Mr. President.
25 Fellow members, I think that last
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1 speech -- it's hard to pick. There were so
2 many speeches. But the last one was an
3 eloquent illustration that we can all take
4 many things home from. If we were
5 listening -- it's hard to listen, you know,
6 when you're as wound into this as I think all
7 of us are.
8 Because when I look around, I see people
9 who have more emotion showing than I've seen
10 in the many years that I've had the
11 opportunity to be a part of the general
12 assembly. And the last speech, just to give
13 you an example, taught me -- and I would hope
14 it would teach all of us -- that we really
15 have a lot to learn if we listen.
16 And I'd like to share a few things, kind
17 of, in my summation on this, too, about why
18 I'm not ashamed that I am for this. I've been
19 told many times today that I should be ashamed
20 for being for this bill. Well, I'm not.
21 So let me -- let me just kind of visit
22 with you a little bit about this for a few
23 minutes. The first thing I want to say is
24 sort of an extension of what I started to say
25 at the very beginning, and that is, I'm almost
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1 on the edge of shock, personal shock, at how
2 much and what has come out in this debate that
3 started yesterday around -- I think we started
4 around 1:30 or shortly thereafter -- mostly
5 from the opponents of this bill that I'm for
6 that I agree with, and not just
7 intellectually, but even resonate with in my
8 heart.
9 So I guess it comes down to, sometimes,
10 even though we're on opposite sides of a bill,
11 we might find an awful lot on which can agree.
12 J ust to give you a quick example, it was --
13 and, by the way, good first job. When you
14 suggested that, you know, why aren't we fixing
15 this 16, 18-year-old thing -- well, you know
16 what? I think I might be able to cosponsor
17 that bill with you, if you want to put it in.
18 You know, I might even want to suggest we go
19 to 21, but that might be a little harder to
20 pass.
21 Because what that does, you know, as an
22 illustration, is shows that -- you know, this
23 is the revised code, my friends, and maybe
24 we're going to need to revise it again. I
25 think someone predicted -- from the Cleveland
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1 area, in their speech -- that this bill might
2 be repealed not too far down the road.
3 So, you know, the fact that there's so
4 much emotion attached to this debate today
5 might have things to do with more than just
6 what this bill says. And I'll -- I'll talk a
7 little bit about what it says in a couple
8 minutes.
9 But this bill has -- has been described
10 as being about a squirmy can of worms, about
11 sex, about hate, about economic harm, about
12 denying benefits, about politics, about
13 intolerant actions, about the need to tolerate
14 diversity, about the march of history.
15 Well, I can go on. There's a long list
16 here. I was writing these things down. You
17 know, some of them I actually agree with, and
18 some, I think, I don't really agree with at
19 all.
20 But, you know what, my friends -- and I
21 mean that literally, friends -- this is a
22 wonderful, in some ways, extended family here
23 isn't it -- I -- I'm going to let somebody
24 else make the judgment of whether there was
25 any mean-spirited parts to this whole debate
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1 that started yesterday about 1:30. I don't
2 know that I'm in a good position to make the
3 judgments that if there was any hate or any
4 other things that aren't good things that we
5 want to identify with, whether -- if that
6 happened, where that was coming from. Okay?
7 There's something else I can agree on.
8 And the individual that I think made this
9 statement -- maybe there were several -- isn't
10 sitting in his seat right now, but that
11 doesn't matter. Because, you know, it was
12 suggested that if we pass this bill today,
13 there will be lawsuits filed.
14 Well, now, there's something we can agree
15 on. Okay? I think there will be lawsuits
16 filed. And, you know what, I think there's
17 going to be lawsuits filed if we don't pass
18 this bill today here, too, on this very issue.
19 I'm not talking in general.
20 So, actually, you know, although we agree
21 on that issue, I think this is a rare moment.
22 Because, you know, one of the things that's
23 frustrated me in the many years that I've
24 served in this general assembly is, it seems
25 like we're always reacting, always reacting,
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1 always reacting to things I wish we would have
2 thought of before and did something proactive.
3 In my humble opinion, this is one of the
4 rare proactive bills that this general
5 assembly has taken up. Now, it doesn't do a
6 whole lot of things legally, but it does a few
7 things, and I'll take that.
8 Before we get to that, can I suggest that
9 the discussion about minorities -- and I wish
10 there were some people in the room that aren't
11 in the room right now -- is an appropriate
12 one. And I want to share a very short -- at
13 least I hope it's short -- personal -- very,
14 very personal story about my family and what
15 happens when minorities are discriminated
16 against.
17 Quite a few years ago, in another
18 century, my ancestors came to this country
19 from Europe. They came here but they were
20 being hunted down like animals. They were
21 being hunted down -- not because they'd done
22 anything, in their minds, that was wrong.
23 They had a simple faith that believed that you
24 should baptize someone.
25 Now, we're not going to hold church here,
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1 okay, although you can argue that some of the
2 other arg -- comments that were made were
3 pretty close to that, and -- and I don't --
4 I'm okay with that.
5 But the point is, because of their
6 religious beliefs, they were driven up into
7 the mountains where they couldn't provide for
8 themselves economically. And there was a lot
9 of economic impact on their -- on that family.
10 They came over to this country with almost
11 nothing, because it had been lost. They came
12 here because they wanted to be able to
13 practice their faith in a way that they
14 believed deeply was important. That's
15 minority.
16 Now, over here -- I could go into some of
17 the other things that happened, but the point
18 I'm trying to make is, you know, I can relate
19 to what it is to be a minority and to be --
20 you know, that that psyche, that background
21 still is with me several generations later.
22 And, in fact, I think you can make a
23 fairly objective argument that today, in
24 today's world that we live in, the faith that
25 I hold is probably discriminated against more
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1 in the public square and in other places than
2 maybe some of the areas of discrimination that
3 we've had a lot of national debate and
4 discussion about over the years.
5 So I'm not sure -- you know, we're kind
6 of having this very personal discussion today,
7 aren't we? And I appreciate it, that it's not
8 a -- not a partisan discussion, because I
9 heard some of the very same things from both
10 sides of the aisle today. So that's very
11 meaningful to me. And we can't have a full
12 discussion, because the clock's ticking.
13 But, you know, there's been an awful lot
14 of statements about what this bill is. And I
15 think it's two things. It's about what people
16 think this bill will do. And I really believe
17 that people on both sides of this -- I think
18 they really have strong, well-intentioned
19 beliefs about what this bill does. And I
20 think it's been described as the denial of
21 rights. It's -- it's all about taking
22 benefits away from people. So those are
23 pretty strong statements, and they ought to be
24 taken very seriously.
25 And the fact that it is 5:33 -- you know,
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1 if it is important, maybe we ought to take a
2 couple more minutes to look at this bill
3 together. Because I think the one thing we
4 sometimes don't do is actually read the bills,
5 so I'm going to get to that in just a minute
6 or two.
7 I want to take up an issue that you might
8 wonder why I would and that's the question of
9 why this bill went to finance committee,
10 because I kind of wondered that myself, you
11 know. But it has occurred to me, one of the
12 values of having hours of debate -- and I've
13 been a member of the finance committee during
14 this debate yesterday and today -- is that you
15 have a chance to think. And, you know, it's
16 occurred to me that there are some very
17 logical reasons why the finance committee
18 would have this bill.
19 First of all, I heard other speakers talk
20 about the economic impacts of this bill on our
21 state. Clearly, our finance committee should
22 care about that. But there are some more
23 direct reasons why I think we should care.
24 And these were referred to, especially by the
25 minority leader, and I -- I appreciated what
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1 he had to say, and I mean that, and we should
2 have some more conversation about that in this
3 body.
4 Think about the budget. That's, you
5 know, the main thing we do in the finance
6 committee. Think about -- pick -- take your
7 pick. I'm just going to pick two big ones.
8 Education, primary and secondary education,
9 let's just start there. That's a huge issue.
10 We've gone from $4 billion of state taxpayer
11 money going out into operating our schools to
12 $8 billion in just about 11 or 12 years. And
13 that's triple the rate of inflation, if you
14 check it.
15 So why it that relevant? Well, you know,
16 I've been to central city Cleveland schools.
17 It's been a while, but I have. I've been
18 inside them. And, very recently, I had the
19 Legislative Service Commission do a -- a
20 little bit of -- and this is on my website if
21 you want to review it -- you know, kind of put
22 the schools into categories according to how
23 wealthy they are, their ability to raise
24 money.
25 And then I said, you know, after you've
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1 categorized them in boxes like that, put the
2 central city districts into their own category
3 so that we can see how much resource per
4 student is available in the poorest districts
5 and in the wealthiest districts.
6 And, you know what, one of the things
7 that kind of surprised me was that -- that
8 when we did that, I discovered that central
9 city school districts -- the big eight, let's
10 say, and that's what we measured -- actually
11 have more money now -- and this was a couple
12 years ago, and it's still that way -- about a
13 couple hundred dollars more per student from
14 the state -- no, that's wrong -- a couple
15 hundred more dollars per student from all the
16 resources, local and state put together, than
17 the wealthiest districts in this state have.
18 And so I would submit to you -- you
19 think, well, where -- where is he going with
20 this? Well, I'm suggesting that when fathers
21 abandon their families, there is a cost, and
22 that cost can be measured in many different
23 ways.
24 But the cost, just to the state of Ohio,
25 in terms of attempting to counteract the
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1 affects of what happens when that committed
2 relationship -- and I do agree that commitment
3 to the well-being of others -- if you have to
4 find a central theme about why we're living
5 this life, that's -- that's probably it. When
6 that's lost, the economic impact on our state
7 and to our taxpayers, my friends, is very,
8 very high, very, very high.
9 Let me give you another example: nursing
10 homes. You talk about an out-of-control part
11 of our budget in this state and in most
12 states -- the amount of money that taxpayers
13 are putting into nursing homes is tremendous.
14 This bill is about marriage, but it's
15 also about family. I recently went to the
16 funeral of my great aunt. And my great -- I'm
17 not going to give you that story, but my great
18 aunt died in her own home being cared for by
19 her daughter. That's a rare thing these days.
20 So all I'm trying to suggest to the
21 folks -- if you can still stay focused on
22 this -- is that choices do make a difference.
23 And that's unfortunate that we sometimes think
24 that, you know, we should be able to make just
25 any choice we want to and -- and -- you know,
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1 when a father makes a choice to leave that
2 home -- and that's not the only way we get in
3 trouble with our families. We had some other
4 illustrations today -- there is an impact.
5 And then there's an interest right here
6 in this room when those decisions are made.
7 We do need to be very careful about how we
8 judge those situations, because we can be very
9 wrong.
10 But you know what? Everybody's got their
11 take on what this bill's about. Well, I think
12 in some ways what really is being reflected in
13 this debate today is a common theme in our
14 society called excessive self-interest, some
15 would say selfishness, because that's at the
16 core of what's going on. It's saying that
17 we in this body and in our public life
18 should -- should take the policy position that
19 whatever anybody in your society wants to do,
20 they should be allowed to do that. It's a
21 very, very popular viewpoint, and it was
22 expressed over and over again today in, I
23 believe, deeply held views.
24 But I would submit to my friends here in
25 this body that the right to do what I, I, I, I
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1 want to do has consequences, and it's very
2 much in opposition to the important thought
3 that was shared with us by several speakers
4 that the commitment to the well-being of
5 others is a high ideal. You can't have both.
6 Okay? You need to balance those.
7 All right. Let's talk about the bill for
8 just a little bit. I'm almost done. Here's
9 the bill. This bill that's going to have such
10 negative impacts on the private-sector
11 employers of our state has the following two
12 lines in it -- and I need to put them into a
13 little bit of context, because the heart of
14 the bill is -- starts at around line 51.
15 There's been several amendments to start
16 getting rid of the bill at that point, but
17 those have not been enacted.
18 If you have the bill -- well, most of you
19 don't have the bill. We're now electronic, so
20 I'll read it to you. Nothing in the division
21 that's the heart of the bill shall be
22 construed to affect the validity of private
23 agreements that are otherwise valid under the
24 laws of this state.
25 Now, is anybody still listening? The
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1 press is partly here and they're partly out
2 filing their stories, and the same is true of
3 the members of this general assembly.
4 But that says two things as it relates to
5 the private sector. And hear me out if you
6 really want to understand a little bit about
7 what this bill does. Nothing in this division
8 shall affect the validity of private
9 agreements, the very private agreements that
10 we've had a lot of debate about today that
11 are -- you know, as this is abridging and
12 taking away. I'm sorry, my folks, that's a
13 pretty plain statement.
14 Now, you say, well, but, but, but, but,
15 but, but it says, otherwise valid under the
16 laws of this state. And that's the second
17 part that I need to explain to you.
18 This -- what this bill does is says, time
19 out, we're going to restate that as it relates
20 to marriage, the laws that exist today, the
21 statutes that exist today are what they mean
22 to say. They're just exactly doing what
23 they're stated to do as it relates to spouses
24 and marriage.
25 So what we're doing is a proactive thing
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1 that relates to what others have very
2 eloquently explained, but I'm not sure we
3 always listen to each other like we ought to.
4 Mr. President, one of the speakers who is
5 standing at the back right now having an
6 important conversation, I'm sure, said earlier
7 in this debate that part of what went on kind
8 of made him have to chuckle. And you know
9 what, I think this debate either is about
10 whether you want to have a laugh or cry, and
11 we've seen mostly the latter today.
12 And, you know what, I think it is a very
13 serious issue, and so I can empathize with
14 those that are crying. Because we have, my
15 friends -- and I mean that literally -- a lot
16 of hurting people in this state. My
17 suggestion, however, is that we need to be
18 careful in how we define what it means to be
19 fully committed to their well-being.
20 Mr. President, I think I've said enough.
21 Thank you for the opportunity.
23 Senator J acobson.
24 SENATOR J ACOBSON: Thank you,
25 Mr. President.
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1 Ladies and gentlemen of the Senate, I
2 know the hour is late. And I'm persuaded by
3 the eloquence of all members involved that
4 people have given this a lot of thought, that
5 this is not a knee-jerk position taken by
6 anyone. It's something that we've all
7 struggled with in our own minds and our own
8 souls to figure out what it is that we want to
9 stand for and what it is that we want to say.
10 And I think a lot of us who support this
11 bill have struggled also as to whether or not
12 we want to say it. Because it's hard to say
13 things that friends are going to hear as
14 hurtful things, whether or not they're
15 intended as hurtful. And it's hard to say
16 things that people see as words that mean that
17 you do not support or approve of choices or
18 directions they have made with their life.
19 It's hard to say that. And so you want to
20 stay silent because you don't want to cause
21 anew people to upset or offended.
22 But there's also a need to recognize that
23 we are here to speak and that we are here to
24 say what we believe in and why. And perhaps
25 the best thing you can do for someone who
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1 disagrees with you and thinks something is
2 hurtful and doesn't understand why you do it
3 is to -- you owe them a better explanation.
4 Don't let your position and your opinions be
5 defined by the statements of others.
6 You know, there is an old adage that
7 silent -- silence implies consent. And I
8 don't want people here to think that because
9 some of us have not spoken or we have not
10 addressed issues or challenges that have been
11 raised that we assent to those or that we
12 believe those are true about us or about why
13 we support this bill.
14 And before I say more about this bill, I
15 want to read you all a section of our rules.
16 And I say this out of deep friendship for my
17 friends in -- in this room and -- and a
18 recognition that I have not always abided by
19 this rule myself.
20 Although I would say that I had a change
21 of heart in it -- on this issue probably the
22 day that my good friend, who is no longer
23 here, got up and reminded me that every time I
24 use the word disingenuous in a speech, it --
25 it causes people on the other side of the
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1 aisle to want to stand up and respond to me.
2 And he said it with a laugh. And it made me
3 realize, you know, when I do that, it does
4 call forth people wanting to respond.
5 And I think we have violated this rule
6 almost every time and almost every day that we
7 have a controversial issue, and it leads to
8 division of people. And it leads other
9 people -- people here and people not here --
10 to hear what we say about each other that we
11 don't respond to and assume it must be true
12 because it was said and not contradicted.
13 And that rule says, in our rules, that
14 you have to avoid personalities. Now, that
15 doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to say that
16 Bob Hagan is the funniest guy, when he wants
17 to be, that I've met. That's not what it
18 means. What is means to engage in
19 personality -- although that's true. What it
20 means to engage in personalities is to
21 describe people's motives, to describe their
22 motives and say, you are doing this because
23 you believe X or because you want to hurt
24 people or because you hate or because you want
25 to get an election issue.
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1 And let me read to you this. And I'm
2 going to refer to it again. And I hope that
3 if any of you see me doing it in the future
4 you will call my attention to it as well. It
5 is not the person but the measure that is the
6 subject of debate. And it is not allowable to
7 arraign the motives of a member, but the
8 nature or consequences of a measure may be
9 condemned in strong terms.
10 Otherwise, we're going to spend all of
11 our time, ladies and gentlemen, with somebody
12 saying, you're doing this because you want to
13 win an election. And then we have to say, no,
14 you're defending on that because you don't
15 want to talk about the subject. And we could
16 go back and forth and back and forth, and then
17 we'd lose the ability to communicate with each
18 other.
19 I'm not interested in this bill because
20 of an election. I know fully well that my
21 family will lose friends because I'm going to
22 vote yes. And I know fully well that others
23 that will happen to, whether they be yes or no
24 votes today, that there are going to be
25 friends of theirs who do not understand and do
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1 not accept and they will lose friends, too,
2 and I think that's sad.
3 I think it's sad that there will be
4 people who hear how we voted and ascribe to
5 that a motive and an opinion of them and the
6 way that they live their lives that is either
7 affirming or denying when, in fact, that may
8 not be. And at least for me, that is not what
9 this is about.
10 It's interesting when we discuss this
11 topic. I hear my friends who are against the
12 bill talk one set of points and I hear my
13 friends who are for this bill talk an entirely
14 different set of points. And perhaps it is
15 inevitable when you are talking two different
16 languages and describing two separate bills
17 that you begin to wonder if each other's
18 motives are somehow or other suspect because
19 they don't see what you see. And I think we
20 need to be clear in saying what those of us
21 who are voting yes are seeing and why we are
22 voting yes on this bill.
23 And I have to disagree with my friend,
24 who is an attorney, my friend -- my two
25 friends, attorneys, who suggested that there
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1 will be lawsuits with private companies. And
2 I would say that you have to have standing to
3 bring a lawsuit. You know, just because NCR
4 offers benefits, I can't just sue them and say
5 that because we passed a law they can't offer
6 those benefits anymore.
7 And I reject that idea. I think we've
8 been very careful to say statutory benefits.
9 Statutory benefits is a defined term. We
10 didn't just invent that. A statutory benefit,
11 for example, is the right as a wife or a
12 husband to say, I don't care what the will
13 says, I get a share of the estate even if my
14 husband or wife cut me off because -- for
15 whatever reason, under the law, they have the
16 right to a share of the estate. Those are
17 statutory benefits.
18 And I think we can debate whether or not
19 benefits belong in the bill or not. And I
20 know that those who disagree stake a lot of
21 their position on that bill -- on the bill on
22 that point.
23 Those of us who support the bill stake a
24 lot of our position on the other points, which
25 is why it is that we believe we need to
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1 reaffirm that marriage is between a man and a
2 woman.
3 And I heard two separate arguments from
4 my friends who are voting no. On one hand, I
5 heard, we don't need to do anything about
6 that, that's the law already. On the other
7 hand, I heard that the march of history -- by
8 the way, you know where that line is famous
9 from, of course. The march of history was
10 something about communism, that it was
11 inevitable, that communism was the march of
12 history, and we were all struggling against
13 the tide. As you know, communism is now
14 defunct, for the most part.
15 But I would like to say, though, that we
16 heard that. And we heard some of our friends
17 say that this is discriminatory because we are
18 not allowing gay marriages, same-sex
19 marriages. But I heard others say, we're not
20 for same-sex marriages, but we don't need
21 this, because we won't have same-sex
22 marriages.
23 You know, that was a very good debating
24 argument last month -- or last year, the year
25 before, the year before when Senator Finan led
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1 a consensus that said, we don't need to do
2 this because our institution of marriage, our
3 definition of marriage is not today in
4 jeopardy in the way we conceive it legally.
5 And that all changed when Massachusetts did
6 what it did.
7 We don't have to give full faith and
8 credit, necessarily, to what happens in
9 Canada, although you can argue treaty
10 obligations may require us to do certain
11 things. But our US Constitution requires us
12 to give full faith and credit to what is the
13 law of other states.
14 And so, therefore, ladies and gentlemen,
15 with the decision in Massachusetts, it became
16 very clear to me, and I think to those who
17 believe in support of this bill -- who are
18 going to vote in support of this bill that we
19 had to act, that we couldn't just say that
20 this is enough, we've taken care of it, this
21 isn't an issue, that we had to give us the
22 better hope, the better chance of surviving no
23 matter what a court might be faced with, so
24 that we were clear, so that we reiterated, so
25 that we followed the United States Supreme
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1 Court decision from the 1930s -- which name I
2 heard once, it escapes me -- that says that
3 for you not to give full faith and credit to
4 what happens in another state, it must be
5 against the strong public policy of your
6 state.
7 I don't know the context then, but I have
8 a feeling it's something today where states
9 that were very narrow-minded were saying to
10 others, you have to live by our narrow-minded
11 rules. And those states with more
12 broad-minded rules, perhaps, on race, said,
13 no, we don't want to have to live by your
14 discriminatory rules and so it's against our
15 strong public policy to discriminate.
16 And I'm not trying to stand here today
17 and say that another state or that any other
18 part of this world can't come to a different
19 opinion. The question is, what do we here in
20 Ohio believe? What is important to us about
21 marriage?
22 And where I fundamentally part company,
23 where I have the difficulty in communicating
24 with my friends who disagree and my friends
25 who feel hurt and my friends who feel singled
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1 out is that this is not about the choices of
2 adults. This is not about the way adults
3 choose to order their lives.
4 Because whether you call it marriage or
5 anything else, adults can order their lives.
6 Adults can form household relationships if
7 they want. Perhaps they don't have all the
8 bells and whistles. Perhaps they don't have
9 all the opportunities and all the -- the --
10 the appearance as equally equal to everyone
11 else's, but they can do it.
12 People can make choices in how to live
13 their individual lives. This is not about
14 saying some kinds of sex -- to my friend from
15 Youngstown -- some kinds of sex are allowed
16 and some kinds of sex are not allowed. That's
17 not the issue anymore. It was an issue in the
18 past. It's not an issue. The Supreme Court's
19 taken care of that.
20 What it's about, though, is what
21 environment do we feel is best for children.
22 That's the way those of us who are voting yes
23 look at this. And we believe that the best
24 environment for children -- not the only
25 environment in which children can be
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1 successful and be raised happy, not in any way
2 saying that all children don't deserve
3 whatever the best opportunity that their
4 family, whatever it may be, can provide.
5 But, to us, it is a recognition that
6 marriage between a man and a woman is the only
7 relationship in which children can be created,
8 and, if they're faithful to it, no other
9 children can be created outside of that
10 marriage, and that teaches children to live in
11 a stable family that stays together because
12 they're committed to each other and to their
13 children so that those children grow up and
14 want to do the same things.
15 Is that something we invented? Is that
16 something that, you know, narrow-minded
17 thinkers just came up with? No. It's
18 something that has survived in almost every
19 society around the world for a very long
20 time -- not every society.
21 You know, there's some places where the
22 rich can have as many wives as they want, or
23 not even wives, they can just father as many
24 children. That's not a society that we have
25 here, and it's not a society that we want to
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1 see us become.
2 And though children deserve that best
3 opportunity and we are going to help children
4 in whatever situation they are raised in, that
5 does not mean to say that because two people
6 would like to order their lives in a certain
7 way that we have to change the institution of
8 marriage just to make them feel better about
9 their choice.
10 I respect people's choices. I know lots
11 of people have made choices. And I know
12 some -- some of them who are working very hard
13 to raise loving children in a loving
14 environment. I respect that, and I admire
15 their commitment to each other. But that does
16 not mean to those of us who are voting yes
17 that we have to do something to marriage to
18 make marriage less in order to let those
19 people do the best they can.
20 Ladies and gentlemen, this bill is not
21 about hate. This bill is about a recognition
22 that there are things in society which should
23 change and things in society which have been
24 preserved in society throughout the ages for a
25 very good reason, and we need to do what we
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1 can to keep them going, not because they work
2 for every human being -- none of us are
3 perfect -- not because there is anyone here
4 who lives up to the ideal.
5 You know, my wife probably wouldn't
6 appreciate me talking about how we get along
7 on a day-to-day basis. But I have to tell
8 you, she's been reading a book that talks
9 about the stages of marriage. And there's a
10 stage when you love each other, a stage when
11 you look at each other and go like, how did I
12 end up with this person, a stage that goes
13 through where you say, you know -- you know,
14 isn't there somebody better out there, and
15 what am I getting into. And then there's the
16 stage that says, we'll maybe this person's not
17 so bad after all, and then the stage that
18 says, all right, I give up, you -- you know,
19 let's stay together. And don't ask me on each
20 day what stage we're in. I'm always trying to
21 figure it out.
22 But I will tell you one very important
23 thing to us and that is that we feel that
24 because we have a very precious son, that no
25 matter which stage we're in, his well-being
141
1 comes first, not the well-being of what Susan
2 and I individually might like to do on any
3 given day.
4 That's what marriage, the ideal, is
5 about. And the fact that we all fall short,
6 the fact that we all struggle, the fact that
7 we all don't know and that, often, marriages
8 break up does not mean that we should say that
9 marriage is not an ideal, that children
10 shouldn't have a mother and a father or
11 don't -- we don't have to look at that as
12 something that would be healthy and helpful if
13 they can get it.
14 So, ladies and gentlemen, it is really
15 two separate conceptions that we are talking
16 about, and I ascribe to all of my friends on
17 the other side who feel differently goodwill.
18 I think they think they're doing the right
19 thing. I think they believe that they are
20 doing something that is helpful.
21 And I want you all, if you can grant it,
22 to grant the same things to us, that we are
23 trying to preserve something that we believe
24 to be essential and helpful and that, in that
25 mode, let's go forward to talk about each of
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1 those other issues tomorrow, because I -- you
2 don't want to hear me talk anymore on any
3 other issue.
4 And the days to follow, let's talk about
5 all those other issues that are still
6 remaining to be done in goodwill and
7 recognizing that though we disagree
8 vehemently, perhaps, on what the effects of
9 this bill would be, we all are doing what we
10 think is the right thing to do and trying our
11 best to the help the families and people of
12 the state of Ohio and that, in and of itself,
13 makes the individual decisions we are making
14 today important ones that need to be made.
15 And so, Mr. President, I thank you for
16 the opportunity to speak, and I urge people to
17 vote how they see fit.
19 the bill pass? Clerk shall call the roll.
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3 THE CLERK: Brady?
5 THE CLERK: Carey?
9 THE CLERK: Dann?
10 SENATOR DANN: No.
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14 THE CLERK: Nein?
145
1 THE CLERK: Spada?
7 THE CLERK: Zurz?
8 SENATOR ZURZ: No.
9 THE CLERK: White?
13 15 nays, the bill is passed and entitled.
14
15 - - -
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3 I, SuzAnne McMillin, CLR, the undersigned
4 court reporter, state the foregoing transcript was
5 transcribed by me via video to the best of my
6 ability.
7
8 _____________________________
SuzAnne McMillin, CLR
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abandon 122:21
abide 104:1
abided 129:18
ability 24:577:593:794:1496:21
97:2598:2121:23131:17146:6
able 10:1623:2240:449:1074:19
74:2088:1489:18,19,19109:18
109:19114:16118:12123:24
abridging 126:11
absolutely 16:5,1857:2282:21
absurd 83:21
abut 67:22
accept 87:1188:389:9,1893:25
132:1
acceptance 94:2103:4
accepted 4:15,1742:11
accepting 37:2139:2141:1642:5
92:21
accepts 96:2
access 70:2573:20
accompanies 55:6
accurate 18:132:2364:1778:8
act 2:83:14,1510:23,2536:3,9
49:13,2150:1,17,2251:6,23
95:1796:9,9109:7135:19
acting 50:157:10
action 33:2034:4
actions 14:6115:13
acts 3:933:396:7
adage 129:6
add 58:5
added 33:25
adding 9:9
address 6:2371:2372:282:15
85:24
addressed 14:17129:10
addressing 6:2584:1
adequate 12:19
adjoining 5:5
administrative 67:12
administrators 27:22
admire 139:14
admitting 48:3
adopted 10:2229:8
adoption 18:829:6
adults 77:17137:2,2,5,6
advantages 98:10
advertisement 38:19
advocate 8:1
affect 15:2333:1135:3125:22
126:8
affirming 132:7
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