A TELEPHONE CONVERSATION

WITH
DR. R. J. RUSHDOONY
Most of us are familiar with R. J. Rushdoony, the
theologian, and his very important and instructive
writing and commentaries. The Counsel asked Mr.
Rushdoony to allow a small glimpse into his life
behind his reputation - his daily work and the support
of his wife, Dorothy. Married couples and
individuals reading this interview will be encouraged
in their own efforts to honor God and advance His
Kingdom in their daily 1i ving.
Q. What was Mrs. Rushdoony's opinion
about starting the Chalcedon Foundation
and how has she been involved in this
work?
A. Dorothy always has been involved in my work
and she felt as strongly as I that the church needed to
be awakened. The church has retreated from the
world. One of the things that marks the Reformed
Faith, historically, is that nothing has had a greater
impact on culture, or the world around it, than the
Reformed Faith, but in our time it has become largely
irrelevant and pietistic. Dorothy felt, as I do, that
something had to be done to awaken the Reformed
community so she was 100% with me in starting the
work. That meant a real dedication to the cause on
her part. If I had taken a small church of say, 40 or
50 members, I would have, for the first 10 years or
so of Chalcedon's history, done far better fmancially.
But, she felt as I did, that I had to be free from other
duties to be able to concentrate on my writings
primarily, and then secondarily, speaking.
Q. Give us some insight into some of the
ways that she has supported, participated,
and has actually been a part of the work at
Chalcedon.
A. Dorothy is an omnivorous reader. Long before
we started Chalcedon she was reading Calvin and
Van Til and she read Van Til the way some people L.
read the comic strips - with delight and with ease!
So, clearly, she saw the basic issues and was
emphatic that they had to be addressed. It was, to a
great extent, her urging and prompting, that fmally
led me to take the steps that led to the formation of
Chalcedon. It was an act of faith and it still is. We
are totally dependent on what the people out there
(who don't see us) send in.
Q. When did you form Chalcedon
Foundation?
A. I think, legally, we created it in 1964, but we
did not begin operation until September of 1965.
So, this year we have been in existence 25 years.
Q. What would you consider your biggest
accomplishment with the Chalcedon
Foundation at this point?
A. I believe the primary accomplishment has been
to wake up people to the totality of Scripture's
requirements of us. People have too long gone to
the Bible with only a few things in mind. They read
it pietistically. One of the fmest pastors I knew as a
young man was an elderly man, a Princeton
graduate, who had studied under the younger
Hodge and Warfield, and yet over the years, he had
allowed his preaching to narrow down to the Gospel
of John and a few other things and he was endlessly
iterating the same theme. His preaching had become
very limited, but he was a very remarkable man,
gracious, thoughtful, a delight to be around, and yet
he had a very small gospel. He had a smaller Bible,
in some respects, than most modernists. That
distressed me greatly because I thought highly of the
man; and I realized that this is what had happened to
the church. The Bible had become a very small book
limited; essentially, to those scriptures dealing with
salvation and with the devotional life. That warps
the theme. It limits it severely.
AND
GENE MIKELL
The Counsel of Chalcedon June 1990 Page 13
Q. In the light of things you have just said
about Scripture, what would you say to a
husband and wife about how they can work'
together, as you and Dorothy have done, to
grow in God's grace and seek the biblical
standards set for a husband and wife?
A. First of all, God's calling is for aU of us, .
individually and together, so that a couple's calling
is a very real thing. They are, together, to serve and
to glorify God. Nowhere is the opportunity greater,
I believe, for that than in a ministry because the
minister's wife is isolated, to a great extent, from
people by her husband's callirig. She is invplved in
his calling in a way that very few other wives are. .
But whether it is a minister or art engineer, I think it
is very important for a wife to understand and
appreciate her husband's callirig; to have some
knowledge of and burdens involved in it.
I do know couples where that is very, very true. I
mentioned engineer because I was thinking of an
aerospace engineer whom I knew, and while he.
never divulged anything that was classified, he
would talk to his wife about his problems, the kind
of objectives he had so they were very much a matter
of concern to her also, as well as a matter of prayer.
I think, too often, because in the modern world a
man leaves the home to go to work, he does not
involve his wife and children in his work as was
once the case when men worked out of the house.
Q. What are some suggestions you could
give to a husband that could help involve
the wife in the way you have just
described?
'
A. First of all, the husband has to have a calling. He
has to feel .the work he is doing is a way of serving
God. By discharging his duties honestly and
faithfully, whether the work be avery important one
in the eyes of men, or whether it be a small thing in ..
the eyes of men, he has to see it as a way of sefvirtg
God Then, if he feels so, and if he enjoys his work,
he should share his delight in the accomplishment
that is his in what he achieves, and thereby to make
her a part of his life when he is away from home.
Now, I do feel that the question of calling is a very
important thing. Work is more than a job. It's .
always a service to man and to God, .and the idea of
a Christian vocation, or the Christian calling which
was once so basic to the Reformed faith is, like other
things, gone. We have for the most part seen
Calvinism reduced to the five points. The five
points are good. They are certainly to be believed.
But anyone who reduces the faith to the five points .
has destroyed it because it is far richer than that and
Page 14 June 1990. The Counsel of Chalcedon .
it requires the totality of our lives . . The totality of life
in the early years. of the Reformed Faith was
especially powerlul in the reformation of the family.
The family became a powerful unit in the Reformed
Faith. Today, the church is the center. The church is
important, but it cannot take over
Today, we have Sunday Christiaruty and siX day nee-
paganism.
Q. Again, as an encouragement to readers,
how can husbands and wives be closer
together in the work of the Lord? What has
been Dorothy's major contribution of
support?
. A. Her major contribution has been lovfug the Lord
and loving me and loving the calling we have .
That is why we are never bored with each
other. When I am away, I call home every night and
it is difficult to hang up. We have so much to talk
about. If we drive sqmewhere, two, three, four,
five hours, we are talking the whole time. Aild, of
course, since my work doesn't take me away from
home - my office is only down the hill a short
distance - we see a great deal of each other and we
enjoy our tirile together. I think life with people is
the same as life with the Lord. If all we do is to pray
briefly, morning noon and night at the table, and
.. briefly at the devotions in the evening, then we don't
have tQo much to say to God. I have bad
. opportunities to see people that l knew very well and
was close to 30 or 40 years ago, and after a few
minutes, very oftel), itis difficult to chat We've .
grown apart. Now, the more we share with each
. o$er the closer we. become and the more easy it is to
communicate. So; I am always interested in sharing
thjngs with Dorothy and she shares things with me.
As I mentioned, she is an omnivorous reader and
often calls my attention to things I've missed, so
life together is very rich and very wonderful.
Q. Do you have any hobbies, or things you
like to do together for telaxation from
the work at .What do you .do?
A. (Laughing) Well, (again laughing) right now we
are hauling rocks! Boulders!
Q. What are you doing With those, maybe
building a rock garden?
A. Mark, our son, lives at the other end of the
driveway on our 60 acres. We are on a hilltop. This
was mining country and still is, to a degree. The
. garden which is abou.t an acre in size, we are
enlarging. We had a backhoe come. in to break up the
ground so Mark, Dorothy, myself and Mark's two
older children, Isaac and April, ten and eight, have
been hauling rocks. Since the children are at school
and Mark is helping run the school, it means that in
the mornings now, Dorothy and I work for a few
hours hauling rocks. It will take us, before we get
them all hauled, perhaps a good part of the summer.
Q. I have to clarify something. Here in the
south, when we talk about gardening, we
are talking about vegetable gardening. Are
you talking about vegetable gardening at
your place?
A. Yes, it is a vegetable garden. Mark is in charge
of it, and then Dorothy. Enough is grown in that
garden so that each Sunday through the summer a
couple of boxes of vegetables are taken to our
morning worship for people to help themselves after
the service is over.
Q. What favorite vegetable do you like to
grow in the garden?
A. Oh, almost anything. I am fond of zucchini and I
do like peas and beans. There are a number of things
that we grow -okra, for example, which is very
good. The one thing I don't touch are tomatoes
because I am allergic to them. We do get some
excellent Armenian cucumbers as well as the regular
cucumbers - quite a few varieties of vegetables,
normally.
Q. Let's come back to the Chalcedon
Foundation for a minute. What current
project are you working on? What is the big
focus right now for you?
A. For me personally or for Chalcedon?
Q. For Chalcedon.
A. We are trying to get our first building up. We
had to revise our original plans downward three
times. When we began our plans three, no, three
and one-half years ago, and even now, inflation has
been very real. After this building is up, we hope to
start a second building fund. And, we will need
funds to furnish this building also.
Q. What personal project do you have
going right now? What is the most
important focus for you right now?
A. Right now, as usual, I have several works
going. I have about three or four works that are
finished that need publication. The proof reading on
the two-volume SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY was
finished today. After those corrections are made it
will go to the printer. I have works on Leviticus,
Romans and Galatians finished. I am currently
working on the latter part of the COMMENTARY
ON EXODUS. I am also working on a study of
church and state - a followup on CHRISTIANITY
AND Tiffi STATE. Again, I am working on the
Christian ministry over the centuries in various areas
apart from evangelism - ministry to the aged, to the
homeless, to the needy, and to the sick. Calvin's
writings on the Diaconate, the work of deacons, is
his most neglected area of study. Only one book has
ever been written on the Diaconate and his work
there was very, very important. The sad fact is that
he was perhaps more influential on Catholics than on
Protestants. The work of St. Charles Borromeo
reflects Calvin's teachings on the Diaconate. Then I
am working on another study of the Biblical
Doctrine of the Family. I usually have four or five
things going; and when I reach a point where I can't
develop my thinking on one, I drop it for a while
and go on to another.
Q. I would like to come back to the focus
on the couple and the relationship of the
couple regarding their biblical mandate.
What one recommendation would you make
to a couple to encourage them so they might
grow together in their mission of work to
rebuild the kingdom?
A. Enjoy what you have in your husband and in
your wife. And, be grateful for what you have. The
more you appreciate your husband or your wife, the
better you will enjoy them. I think most people are
discontented with everything except themselves, and
that is where a great deal of their unhappiness
begins. They are very conscious of the weaknesses
and faults of others, but not of their own. I have
often teased Dorothy when I tell her something that '
irks me a little and she tells me of what might irk
her, I tell her, well, your faults all stinky ones; mine
are loveable ones. Now, of course, I don't mean that
seriously. I mean that I recognize how self-centered
we are as we look at one another. Our faults are
always loveable ones. The other person's faults are
always stinky. If you see that in yourself, it makes it
much, much easier to live with other people and to
live with yourself.
Q. So, the closing thought is that our
mates always have stinky faults and we
always have loveable faults.
A. (Laughing) That is what we like to think, and it
is anything but true.
(ED'S NOTE: We hope you found the interview
with Dr. Rushdoony as educational and heart
warming as this student of the Reformed Faith
found it to be.)
The Counsel of Chalcedon June 1990 Page 15