Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko, 55, speaks

with SPIEGEL

SPIEGEL: Mr. President, the worst tensions in

Europe today exist between the two great
countries in the east. Why are relations between
Moscow and Kyiv so strained?
Viktor Yushchenko: There are two reasons for
this:
First, a great empire crumbled with the collapse
of the Soviet Union. Many Russian politicians
have a hard time getting used to that fact that
there are new, independent states, with their own
view of the past and their own future.
And, second, there are problems that we have
inherited, such as the Russian Black Sea fleet.
Our constitution prohibits foreign military bases
on our territory. And from the Soviet days as
well stems our dependence as consumers and our
role as a transit country for Russian gas, with
all the familiar ensuing conflicts.
SPIEGEL: Russia has recently recalled its
ambassador from Ukraine, but not yet sent a new
one. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev wrote a
letter to you in which he indicated that the next
ambassador will not be sent until you are no
longer the head of state -- a virtually
unprecedented event.
Yushchenko: Yes, and these inappropriate
interventions in our domestic affairs concern not
only us, but also all of Europe. The Russians are
a great people -- we respect them and strive to
have good relations with them. But how can these
relations improve if our sovereignty is
continually called into question?
The Russian president's letter was not directed
solely at me --
I'm afraid this is something that people in
Europe still haven't understood at all.
SPIEGEL: The Russians are obviously focusing on
you as an individual. Medvedev accuses you of
adopting an "anti-Russian" course, and 47 percent
of his fellow countrymen see Ukraine as an
"unfriendly state." They also allege that
Ukrainian soldiers and nationalist troops fought
last year on the Georgian side in the war against
Russia. Is this true?
Yushchenko: No, it's a big lie. I'm prepared to
support any international investigation. Similar
lies were also spread during the gas dispute at
the beginning of the year to swing public opinion
in Europe against us.
SPIEGEL: But you actually did support your
friend, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili,
during the war -- also by sending weapons.
Yushchenko: Even before my term as president,
there were large deliveries of weapons to
Georgia. Our military and technical cooperation
remains within the framework of international
law.
As for the Russian-Georgian war, we supported
Georgia because anything else would have been out
of the question for us.
This has nothing to do with Georgia per se.
It concerns fundamental principles such as
territorial integrity.
This is surely a question for all of us in
Europe:
Is it or is it not acceptable to violate the
international security architecture?
It is sad to see how little the democracies of
Europe stand up for their own basic values.
SPIEGEL: Medvedev also accuses you of suppressing
the Russian language -- with a Russian minority
of 8 million and even more Russian-speaking
Ukrainians.
Yushchenko: We have a language problem, but this
concerns the Ukrainian language.
When you speak with our citizens, two-thirds of
them will respond in Russian.
More than half of our education budget goes
toward school instruction in Russian.
SPIEGEL: Then why don't you make Russian the
second official language?
Yushchenko: As the guarantor of the constitution,
I must maintain Ukrainian as the official state
language.
We preserve our culture thanks to our mother
tongue. This significantly contributes to
maintaining our independence. If a nation loses
its language, it loses its memory, its history,
and its identity.
SPIEGEL: The inhabitants of the Crimean Peninsula
speak almost exclusively Russian. There have even
been clashes there recently between Ukrainian
police and military personnel of the Russian
Black Sea fleet because you have had lighthouses
dismantled and missile transports halted. Why all
these provocations when the lease agreement
expires in 2017 anyway?
Yushchenko: There is a basic agreement and four
amendments on the provisional stationing of this
fleet with us.
However a large part of this agreement is not
being respected.
For instance, many of the areas utilized by the
military (of Russian Black Sea fleet in Crimea )
in are being improperly used -- to build private
villas. This all has to do with lawlessness and
sloppiness.
Or take the problem with the 134 lighthouses,
intended for navigational purposes, which stand
on our territory: Russia has simply taken control
of these facilities. If they are truly all used
for the fleet, then an agreement must be made
with us concerning them. And we must also have
the right to monitor the crew sizes and the
number of ships, so that they cannot both simply
be increased. No country with foreign military
bases on its territory can forgo doing this in
the interest of its own security.
SPIEGEL: Could the same thing happen in the
Crimea that occurred in the breakaway Georgian
provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia -- a
secession encouraged by Moscow?
Yushchenko: There are no domestic reasons for
this. The problem only arises when someone
somehow plays the Crimea card. That is where a
serious potential threat can arise. As president,
I am doing everything I can to prevent this.
SPIEGEL: There are already calls from Russians on
the Crimean Peninsula for Moscow to support a
secession -- if necessary with a war against the
"stupid people" currently in power in Kyiv.
Yushchenko: The situation's future development
essentially depends on Russia.
Back in 1993 the Russian parliament declared the
port city of Sevastopol a Russian city.
That was an official decision, which is still in
effect. This resolution shows that there are
powers that are out to destabilize the Crimea.
SPIEGEL: The pressure exerted by Moscow also has
another motivation. Russia apparently wants to
prevent Ukraine at all costs from being accepted
into NATO.
Yushchenko: You have to realize why Russia is so
jealously observing the development of a young
democracy on its border. In 1654, Ukraine lost
its sovereignty and became a border province in
the Russian Empire. During the 20th century,
Ukraine declared its independence six times and
lost it again five times. For us the loss of our
sovereignty is no theoretical threat, but rather
the real life experience of many generations. We
have always lost our sovereignty for one single
reason: because we were the victims of power
games. This explains why we are now seeking our
security in NATO, an alliance of democracies that
already includes Poland, the Czech Republic,
Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
SPIEGEL: Now the West has become more reticent --
not out of consideration for Russia, but rather
due to disappointment that the victors of the
Orange Revolution of 2004, you and Prime Minister
Yulia Tymoshenko, have plunged Ukraine into a
constitutional crisis. Each is now branding the
other as a traitor, as corrupt, or as a Russian
agent. You yourself are losing influence at a
dramatic rate. Why is it so difficult to reach a
consensus among the political elite of your
country?
Yushchenko: I don't share your interpretation at
all. I have paved the way forward for this
country.
Over the past four years, there has been a
constant real growth rate in our gross domestic
product of 7 percent.
The national budget has doubled, the minimum
pension has risen and foreign investments have
quintupled.
Show me other European countries with such
results. Shouldn't I be proud of that?
SPIEGEL: Nevertheless, there is great
disappointment everywhere with your leadership.
Yushchenko: The problems began after the Orange
Revolution, when we formed a government and our
first differences surfaced. We argued over what
policies we actually wanted to pursue.
Prime Minister Tymoshenko put a halt to market
economy reforms and resorted to excessive state
control.
She limited exports of grain and vegetable oil
under the pretense of combating inflation.
Last year she destroyed the livelihoods of tens
of thousands of small farmers with massive meat
imports, after which livestock herds dwindled
dramatically. Populism and corruption took the
place of market economy competition.
SPIEGEL: In European democracies, it would be up
to the parliament to take action.
Yushchenko: But in our country there is no
functioning majority in parliament. The prime
minister cannot pass a budget or a law; there is
no concept for foreign policy problems or
economic issues. The prime minister does not even
mention the word NATO -- she has forgotten the
democratic values that we strove to uphold in the
Orange Revolution. The policies of the populists
are depriving our country of its rights and
responsibilities, despite the fact that many
people are currently applauding the populists.
Maintaining power has become an end in itself --
and this at any price: through betrayal, secret
deals, putsches.
SPIEGEL: Those are tough allegations against a
former fellow activist who stood at your side on
Kyiv's Independence Square.
Yushchenko: Unfortunately, she later even sought
allies among the former opponents of the
revolution in order to topple the president. MPs
from my party's parliamentary group were bought
off so the prime minister could secure her post.
SPIEGEL: That sounds more like a banana republic
than Europe.
Yushchenko: This is due to the constitutional
reform that parliament passed in 2004 to prevent
a violent end to the revolution. Over time, this
has paralyzed the entire power structure. My
rights to appoint members of the government were
drastically curtailed.
SPIEGEL: There are also rumors of mafia-style
groups in parliament.
Yushchenko: We have a number of convicted
criminals in the parliament; they could form
their own parliamentary group. The failed
constitutional reform has meant that we have
representatives in parliament who are only
interested in acquiring certain companies and
controlling private financial interests.
SPIEGEL: Moscow is only an observer here?
Yushchenko: Just look at the activities of the
prime minister and her trips to Moscow:
When I warn of a fifth column, I know what I'm
talking about.
SPIEGEL: The only problem is that in opinion
polls 30 percent of respondents support Yulia
Tymoshenko, whereas you enjoy at best between 6
and 8 percent. You are the big loser of the Kyiv
power struggles.
Yushchenko: Please don't come at me with such
numbers.
SPIEGEL: Apparently, you have asked too much of
many Ukrainians with your rapid embrace of the
West.
Yushchenko: After 18 years of independence,
drawing closer to NATO holds a particularly high
priority for me. We have already achieved
incredible things in our relations with the EU:
easing trade barriers, forging visa agreements. I
am convinced that for this country there is no
alternative to the course that I stand for.
SPIEGEL: You have become a lonely president. Will
you nevertheless run for re-election in January?
Yushchenko: Of course. My popularity ratings are
rising again. The Medvedev letter should further
enhance this trend.
SPIEGEL: Before the election is held, can you --
as promised -- clear up the two high-profile
controversial cases in Ukraine: the murder in
September 2000 of journalist Georgy Gongadze, who
had written about high-level corruption, and the
poison attack on yourself in September 2004? The
truth apparently only comes out bit by bit, only
when someone expects to gain something
politically.
Yushchenko: You are under a false impression; the
president does not have the right to supervise
judicial inquiries. Clearing up Gongadze's murder
is a question of honor for me. Three of those
directly involved in the murder have already been
convicted, and I'm proud of that. Now we have to
find the person who ordered the murder. What
nobody in the West will understand is that the
key witness who we have arrested -- a police
general -- has to be protected 24 hours a day so
no one will take revenge on him. There are people
in the entourage of the prime minister who are
not interested in seeing the inquiry make
progress because they worked under former
President Leonid Kuchma, who was in power when
the murder took place.
SPIEGEL: And your poisoning at that official
dinner party in 2004?
Yushchenko: The investigations have been
completed; state prosecutors have interviewed
over a thousand witnesses. A number of members of
parliament -- including opposition leader Viktor
Yanukovich, who headed the government at the time
-- have not made statements.
People who directly organized my poisoning have
been in Moscow for the past four years.
I have appealed to the Russian president three
times, and asked him to have them questioned by
Ukrainian investigators at our embassy in Moscow.
The suspects include the former deputy director
of the intelligence agency, the cook and one of
the waiters. All of these people are in Moscow.
SPIEGEL: Mr. President, thank you for this
interview.
Interview conducted by Uwe Klussmann and
Christian Neef