5/3/2014

How to calculate capability for positional tolerance like a hole position - searching for a generic solution - Thx | LinkedIn

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How to calculate capability for positional tolerance like a

hole position - searching for a generic solution - Thx

Members of this Group

Steve Hall
Team Leader - Process Leadership
Auto manufacturers have used GD&T for many years, but during
manufacturing process sign off (PPAP) we use capability predictions
(Ppk / Cpk) to predict process capability going forwards based on
sample of data obtained during sign off run. Is there a simple method
used to calculate as we have to rely on sampling due to volumes. This
appears very complex, and GD&T in 3 coordinates, should even include
the feature size modifier. In this case it could be quite typical to
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consider the capabilty of 4 dimensional, interdependent features. I have
never seen this done. If this is not feasible, then designers and manufacturers will move away from GD&T
and back to simple coordinate measurements. HELP!

Yaniv Ben-Asher
Product Design Engineer
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Ravi Khare
Director & CEO, Symphony Technologies
Ravi

IMHO a hole position tolerance would be a cylindrical tolerance zone and have a variation in 2D
space...the third dimension being down the bounding cylinder axis. Variation in position can be
measured as deviation from the True position. Since this is an Upper bound tolerance, I would
measure Capability based on the Upper Tolerance limit alone. Thus the Process Capability index
of Cpk/ Ppk (Upper) would become relevant. Pp/ Cp and Ppk/ Cpk (lower) would not be defined as
measures of Capability as there is no lower tolerance limit.
As for modifiers, the situation becomes a little more complex. The available positional tolerance is
dependent upon the amount of bonus tolerance that is available. The amount of Bonus tolerance
available in turn is based on the range of size tolerance that is consumed. A good approach in
such a case is to decide a budget for each tolerance in advance. Based on the process
repeatability for size and for position, a budgeted tolerance zone for size and a similar budgeted
tolerance limit for position can be determined in advance so as to maximize the yield (minimize
potential rejection based on both counts, size and position). This way the guaranteed amount of
bonus tolerance available can be known in advance to plan the process correctly.. Based on the
budgeted tolerance limits of size and position and adjusting for available bonus tolerance, the
capability for size and for position can be determined. Pp/ Ppk for size, and Ppk (upper) for
position.
Capability calculations during PPAP are an assurance to the customer that you are running a low
defect- potential process. The approach outlined above should serve to give the assurance.
So far as GD&T variatrion in 3 coordinates goes, it is seen most times in case of the Profile-ofSurface tolerance. Since Profile of a surface tolerance is always expressed RFS, a modifier and
bonus tolerance (4th Dimension to deal with) will not come into the picture. Profile of a surface
can be measured with a low measurement error using a CMM like measurement system. So if
capability of processes producing surfaces needs to be measured with a variable measurement
system the use of a CMM is such a case would be inevitable.

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3h ago

These are just my thoughts and a recall of a couple of cases where I have tried out the tolerance

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5/3/2014

How to calculate capability for positional tolerance like a hole position - searching for a generic solution - Thx | LinkedIn
budgeting approach in. I'm sure there would be other approaches that could be effective and better
than this one. Would be glad to hear more thoughts on this. Thank you.
-Ravi
Like Reply privately Flag as inappropriate 16 hours ago

Nathan Weister commented on a discussion in

GD&T. Steve H. How to calculate capability

Michael Adcock
Dimensional Engineering Mentor
Michael

In many organizations the Bonus tolerances are simply added to the position tolerance value in
the beginning to assign specification limits. The logic of this is that the engineer gave the
tolerance, manufacturing might not have used int all because management or customers require a
CpK of 1.66 (or other value), but the engineer provided this tolerance.
Datum feature shift allowances are not added to the spec limits because if the inspector executes
his duties correctly they are already moving the part to get the best measurements - the result is
that the data points we would plot have already been moved as far into the spec limits as
possible.
If you a supplier doesn't your customer provide guidance on how they want capability to be
determined?
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for positional tolerance like a hole position searching for a generic solution - Thx Auto
manufacturers have used GD&T for many
years, but during manufacturing process sign off
(PPAP) we use capability predictions (Ppk / Cpk) to
predict process capability going forwards based
on... more
7h ago

Steve Hall commented on a

discussion in GD&T. How to calculate

capability for positional tolerance like a
hole position - searching for a generic
solution - Thx Auto manufacturers have
used GD&T for many years, but during
manufacturing process sign off (PPAP)
we use capability predictions (Ppk /
Business S
Cpk) to predict process capability
51 based on... more
going forwards
1d ago

Advanced

Nathan Weister
Sr. Technologist / Designer

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It depends on what you want to get out of the study and who is using the results.
Nathan

Subgroups
Structural

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Are you qualifying a new tool? Trying to fix a problem? Running post mfg simulations? What you
want to understand may help you decide what to study.

21 members

A Position tolerance has many individual components that roll back up into one tolerance. Think
of X and Y coordinates, or coaxial placement (infinite radial elements) - and what % of orientation
error vs location.

Mechanical
36 members

Monitoring components of the feature, X, Y and sometimes Z can provide insight as to just how
capable the process is and can provide a flavor for which vector the error is occurring (to help fix a
problem).

Students
28 members
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Doing a study from the true position to the actual position, as Ravi mentioned, can simply show
just how well your on target. Throwing in bonus makes for more homework. For TOP with bonus,
since each part has its own unique limit (FCF + actual bonus), comparing the FCF values for SPC
indexing doesnt really tell you much. Its the comparison of a bunch of different parts to one set of
specs that makes SPC useful.

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One technique is to calculate each parts spec (since they are all different FCF + bonus). Then
compare the actual part error to that parts spec and convert into % tolerance used. Using the
percent values, SPC can be run on a bunch of parts to compare against each other. As stated
before though, make sure the study is done based on only one spec since the other spec limit is
zero and cannot go negative.
-Nate
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