Transcript (Day C060)

ROYAL COMMISSION INTO INSTITUTIONAL
RESPONSES TO CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE
Public Hearing - Case Study 22

(Day C0060)
Court 3.3, County Court of Victoria

250 William Street, Melbourne
On Monday, 2 February 2015 at 10.00am
Before
The Presiding Member:
Commissioners:
Counsel Assisting:
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Justice Jennifer Ann Coate

Mr Robert Fitzgerald AM
Mr Andrew Murray
Ms Maria Gerace
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THE PRESIDING MEMBER:

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Good morning, Ms Gerace.
MS GERACE:
Good morning, Your Honour. May it please Your
Honour and Commissioners, I appear as Counsel Assisting
this inquiry. I'm instructed through this inquiry by
Ms Louise Amundsen, Ms Elinore Gerritsen, Ms Anne Saab,
Ms Izabela Bozym and Ms Angela Leung. Those are the
appearances.
Thank you.
DR HANSCOMBE:
May it please the Commission, my name is
Hanscombe. I appear instructed by Laura Kane of Waller
Legal for [AVA] who I believe leave to appear was granted
on 23 January and I also seek now if I may to make a
further application for leave to represent the witness
given the pseudonym [AVR] who made a statement in this
Commission yesterday. I apologise for the lateness of this
application.
MS GERACE:
[AVR] has provided a statement to the
Commission late last night. Leave should be granted for
[AVR] to be represented.
No one wants to say anything with
respect to that application? I will grant leave.
DR HANSCOMBE:
If the Commission please.
MS RICHARDS:
My name is Melinda Richards. I appear for
Manny Waks and Zephaniah Waks instructed by Dr Vivian
Waller and Elisa Zelez of Waller Legal. I understand that
leave has been granted to both of my clients.
has.
Thank you, Ms Richards.
Yes, it
MR BARKER:
My name is Barker, Commissioners. I appear
for Rabbi Pinchus Feldman and only for Rabbi Pinchus
Feldman.
Thank you, Mr Barker.
MR NOONAN:
May it please the Commission, my name is
Patrick Noonan. I appear for the Yeshivah Centre Melbourne
instructed by Perry Maddocks Trollope.
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MR STRICKLAND:
Yosef Feldman.
My name is Strickland.

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Thank you, Mr Noonan.

I appear for Rabbi
Thank you, Mr Strickland.
MR NEIL:
My name is Neil. I appear with my learned
friend Mr Chin with leave for Rabbi Moshe David Gutnick.
I understand that leave has
previously been granted.
MR NEIL:
It has.
MR VAN DE WIEL:
If the Commission pleases, I appear for
[AVB] and [AVC] and seek leave to appear for them. My name
is Remy van de Wiel and I would appear with my instructor
Jodie Gerritsen or Nicholas Boag.
Thank you, Mr van de Wiel. As
I understand it, leave has previously been granted.
MS GERACE:
Your Honour, Commissioners, there is a further
appearance. Mr Tom Danos appears for Rabbis Kluwgant,
Yaakov Glasman and Mordechai Gutnick. Mr Danos contacted
the Commission and indicated he had a prior commitment this
morning for the opening of term ceremonies and anticipates
being here at 2 pm.
Thank you.
you to open, Ms Gerace, thank you.
So I formally call upon
MS GERACE:
Your Honour, Commissioners, this is the 22nd
case study the subject of a public hearing by the Royal
Commission and the second public hearing in Victoria. It
is the first hearing to examine institutional responses to
child sexual abuse in a section of the Jewish community of
Australia.
This inquiry will examine the responses of Orthodox
Jewish institutions in Victoria and New South Wales. The
institutions to be examined are Yeshivah Centre and the
Yeshivah College in Melbourne, Victoria, Yeshivah
Melbourne, and Yeshiva Centre and Yeshiva College Bondi,
New South Wales, Yeshiva Bondi.
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The scope and purpose of this hearing is to inquire

into: One, the responses of the Yeshivah Centre and the
Yeshivah College in Melbourne to allegations of child
sexual abuse made against David Cyprys, David Kramer and
Aaron Kestecher; two, the response of the Yeshiva Centre and
Yeshiva College Bondi to allegations of child sexual abuse
made against Daniel Hayman; three, the system, policy,
practices and procedures for the reporting of and
responding to allegations of child sexual abuse by Yeshivah
Centre, Yeshivah Beth Rivkah Colleges, the Yeshiva Centre
Chabad New South Wales and Yeshiva College Bondi; lastly,
any related matters.
This Commission sits and exercises powers conferred by
the Royal Commissions Act 1902 (Commonwealth), the Royal
Commissions Act 1923 (New South Wales) and Evidence
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1958 of Victoria.
Yeshivah Melbourne and Yeshiva Bondi are religious
institutions that exist within the fold of the worldwide
Chabad-Lubavitch movement. The documents examined by the
Commission indicate that Chabad is a sect of Hasidic
Judaism. While Yeshivah Melbourne and Yeshiva Bondi were
both formed as a consequence of the Chabad movement, each
institution is likely to assert the independence of their
governance.
This inquiry will examine evidence of offences
committed by three convicted perpetrators, offences that
were committed in connection with the activities of the
institutions. The perpetrators are David Cyprys,
Melbourne; Rabbi David Kramer, Melbourne; and Daniel Gug
Hayman, Bondi. The Commission will examine when Yeshivah
Melbourne and Yeshiva Bondi first came to know of
allegations of abuse by David Cyprys, Rabbi David Kramer
and Daniel Gug Hayman and the response of leaders and
management to that information.
The Commission will also examine how the institutions
have responded to victims and community members following
publication of allegations of abuse during and after the
police investigation into the allegations and the criminal
process and following public statements made by witnesses
critical of the response of the institutions.
The Commission will hear evidence from four survivors
of the sexual abuse perpetrated by the convicted offenders.
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They are witness [AVA], a former student of Yeshivah

College Melbourne; Menahem Manny Leib Waks, also a former
student of Yeshivah College Melbourne; witness [AVR],
another former student of Yeshivah College Melbourne; and
[AVB], a former student of Yeshiva Bondi.
All of the victims were students at schools run by the
institutions at the time of their abuse. The victims came
into contact with the perpetrators as a result of the
perpetrators' involvement in or association with activities
run by the institutions, such as after school martial arts
classes, religious programs and overnight youth camps.
As both David Cyprys and Rabbi David Kramer committed
offences against multiple victims, the Commission will
examine records of the convictions and sentences imposed on
the perpetrators in order to understand the full extent of
the perpetrators' crimes.
The Commission will hear evidence from members of the
victims' families: [AVQ], mother of [AVA]; Zephaniah Waks,
father of Manny Waks; and [AVC], wife of [AVB]. Each of
these witnesses will give evidence about what is often
referred to as a secondary impact of the trauma of child
sexual abuse; that is, how the abuse has affected family
members and relationships.
I anticipate that additionally some of the witnesses
are likely to give evidence of difficulties their families
have experienced in the aftermath of the victims' abuse
becoming public and as a result of the victims'
participation and assistance in the investigation and
prosecution of the offences. That evidence will be
examined in this inquiry.
It is necessary to say something briefly about the
approach that will be taken in this inquiry to the
identification of some victims, complainants, witnesses and
persons against whom complaints of abuse have been made.
In line with the usual practice, victims and members of
their families giving evidence will be referred to either
by name or by allocated pseudonym. In this case study some
of the convicted perpetrators offended against multiple
children. Where victims of the offenders are not being
called in this case study, but documents to be examined
outline the victims' abuse, the names of the victims and
other witnesses that may enable the victim to be identified
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have been redacted from the documents. Where offenders

have pleaded guilty to or have otherwise been convicted of
offences, they will be referred to by name. The same
course is adopted where allegations have been made against
a person who is deceased.
As the evidence in this case study is expected to

reveal allegations of abuse that are the subject of ongoing
investigation, the persons against whom those complaints
are made but not determined will be identified by
pseudonym.
The facts identified in these submissions are drawn

from witness statements, documents expected to be tendered
during the public hearing and documents published by the
organisations being examined. It is not anticipated that
these facts will be in contest. They are identified here
as a guide to the evidence that will be led.
The balance of this opening outlines the evidence of
child abuse offences committed by the convicted
perpetrators, provides a short summary of the
Chabad-Lubavitch movement so as to give some background to
the circumstances leading to the establishment of Yeshivah
Melbourne and Yeshiva Bondi and to provide a context of
some understanding of the communities being examined.
It gives an overview of the establishment of Yeshivah
Melbourne and Yeshiva Bondi and the activities and services
they provide to the Chabad community, will highlight some
cultural, historical and religious issues the documents
produced to the Commission suggest are likely to arise in
the inquiry, and lastly identifies the witnesses to be
called and the reasons for calling the witnesses.
Evidence of child abuse within the Yeshivah Melbourne
and Yeshiva Bondi communities. This case study will hear
evidence of the abuse by three convicted perpetrators:
Shmuel David Cyprys, Rabbi David Kramer and Daniel Gug
Hayman. What follows is a summary of the abuse. It is
confined to abuse that the offender has accepted as having
perpetrated or offences for which the offender has been
found guilty. I anticipate that the Commission will hear
evidence of additional allegations of offending behaviour
by these convicted perpetrators.
Shmuel David Cyprys.
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David Cyprys was a serial abuser
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of children. On 8 September 1992 in the Magistrates' Court

at Prahran, David Cyprys was without conviction found
guilty of the indecent assault of witness [AVR]. The
offence was committed on or around 24 August 1991. He was
placed on a good behaviour bond for a period of three
years.
On 28 August 2013 in the County Court of Victoria in
Melbourne a jury found David Cyprys guilty of five charges
of rape of [AVR]. [AVR] was approximately 15 or 16 years
old at the time of the offences which were committed
between 1990 and 1991. At the time David Cyprys was in his
early 20s.
Following the jury's decision, David Cyprys pleaded
guilty to a further five charges of indecent assault, four
charges of procuring an act of indecency, one charge of
attempted indecent assault and two charges of gross
indecency. Several of the additional offences are what is
known as representative charges; that is, where the police
lay a charge, lay a single charge that is representative of
a pattern of offending. Those further offences were
committed between 1982 and 1990 when David Cyprys was
between 14 and 22 years old and involved eight different
victims, including two victims who will give evidence
during this case study, [AVA] and Manny Waks. The youngest
of his victims was seven years old at the time he was
abused.
The County Court found that David Cyprys came into
contact with his victims through his connections with the
Yeshivah Centre and its associated sporting, educational,
religious and youth programs. The court further found that
David Cyprys's activities in association with the Yeshivah
Centre, including running classes as a kung fu teacher,
having keys and means of access to a number of buildings in
the Yeshivah Centre, created an impression in his victims
that David Cyprys had some authority and official standing
within the Yeshivah.
He was sentenced on all charges to a total effective
sentence of eight years imprisonment with a non-parole
period of five years and six months. He was sentenced as a
serious sex offender and orders were made to register
Cyprys as a sex offender under the Sex Offenders
Registration Act 2004 with reporting obligations for the
rest of his life. Cyprys is still serving that sentence.
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Rabbi David Kramer. Rabbi David Kramer was a former

teacher at the Yeshivah Centre primary school run by
Yeshivah Melbourne. Evidence suggests that David Kramer
had completed rabbinical studies in Israel but was not
ordained as a rabbi. Even so, students at the school
called him Rabbi Kramer. On 17 July 2013 in the
County Court of Victoria David Kramer pleaded guilty to
five charges of indecent assault and one charge of an
indecent act with a child under 16. Those offences were
committed between January 1990 and December 1991 whilst he
was a primary school teacher at Yeshivah Centre Primary
School. His victims were all primary students at the
school and were 10 or 11 at the time they were abused. Two
of the victims were sons of Zephaniah Waks and brothers of
Manny Waks.
In 1992 a number of parents complained to leaders at
Yeshivah Melbourne that David Kramer was touching the
children. David Kramer left Australia within days of the
complaints. The circumstances of his departure from
Australia will be examined in this inquiry.
David Kramer returned to Israel and later travelled to
the United States. It was there in the United States that
he would be later charged and sentenced for serious sexual
offending against a child committed in March 2007. He was
sentenced in the United States to seven years imprisonment
with a statutory minimum term of four and a half years.
In December 2011 Victoria Police charged David Kramer
with the 1990, 1991 offences committed in Melbourne and he
was extradited to Australia on 29 November 2013. Rabbi
Kramer pleaded guilty to the charges laid. He was
sentenced to a term of imprisonment for the offences,
resulting in a total effective sentence of three years and
four months, with a minimum term of 18 months to be served
before eligibility for parole. He was sentenced as a
serious sex offender and orders have been made for him to
be registered as a sex offender under the Sex Offenders
Registration Act 2004 with reporting obligations for the
rest of his life. Kramer has served his sentence and has
been deported to the United States.
Daniel Gug Hayman. On 10 June 2014 in the Downing
Centre Local Court in Sydney, Daniel Gug Hayman was
sentenced following an earlier plea of guilty to a charge
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of indecent assault of a child who was a student at Yeshiva

Bondi. At the time of the offence Daniel Hayman was 24.
His victim, [AVB], was 14. Daniel Hayman perpetrated the
abuse whilst attending a youth camp known as Camp Gan
Israel in Stanwell Tops south of Sydney. His victim,
[AVB], who will give evidence in this inquiry, attended the
camp as a student. Daniel Hayman attended that camp in the
role of chaperone or house parent.
The magistrate who sentenced Daniel Hayman described
the offending conduct as a serious example of the offence
of indecent assault. The conduct was substantial, actively
non-consensual and involved skin-to-skin contact,
notwithstanding the victim demonstrated his lack of
consent. The magistrate found that Daniel Hayman
overpowered the victim to allow him to continue the act
despite the victim's protestations. The act was motivated
by sexual gratification and took place in an isolated
location to which the offender took his victim.
Daniel
Hayman was sentenced to a term of imprisonment of
19 months, to be suspended upon entering a bond to be of
good behaviour for the same period.
These offences by David Cyprys, Rabbi David Kramer and
Daniel Hayman were committed in connection with Yeshivah
Melbourne and Yeshiva Bondi and it is necessary to
understand the nature of those religious institutions and
their place within the Chabad-Lubavitch movement in order
to examine the responses of the institutions to these acts
of abuse.
The Chabad-Lubavitch movement generally. Yeshivah
Melbourne and Yeshiva Bondi are part of the
Chabad-Lubavitch or Chabad movement. It will be necessary
in this inquiry to examine aspects of the Chabad-Lubavitch
movement in order to understand the ethos and purpose of
the institutions within the community and the role that its
religious leaders, known as rabbis, have within the
institutions and the communities they serve. It will also
provide some context for the experience of victims.
The information which follows is intended to be a
short summary to provide an introduction to the movement,
faith and practices of the Chabad-Lubavitch communities so
as to assist the Commission and those following this public
hearing. It has been distilled from documents and
statements produced to the Commission or other public
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documents
will call
Melbourne
the movement
practices of
endorsed by the institutions. The Commission

evidence from religious leaders from Yeshivah
and Yeshiva Bondi who will provide evidence of
and aspects of the religious faith and
Orthodox Jews within Chabad.
Chabad is a sect of Orthodox Judaism within the

general class of movements described as Hassidism. Members
of the Chabad communities are sometimes but not uniformly
referred to as ultra-Orthodox Jews. Chabad is described as
a philosophy, a movement and an organisation. The word
"Chabad" is a Hebrew acronym for three intellectual
faculties of chochmah or wisdom, binah - comprehension and
da'at - knowledge. The word "Lubavitch" is the name of a
town in White Russia where the movement was based for more
than a century, having been founded there approximately
250 years ago.
The movement system of Jewish religious philosophy
teaches an understanding and recognition of the creator,
the role and purpose of creation and aims to guide a person
to refine and govern his or her every act and feeling
through wisdom, comprehension and knowledge. The movement
is guided by the teaching of its seven leaders known as
Rebbes, beginning with Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi, who
lived between 1745 and 1812. These leaders expanded upon
aspects of Jewish mysticism, creating a corpus of study
thousands of books strong.
The last of the Rebbe to lead the movement was Rebbe
Menachem Mendel Schneerson, known simply as the Rebbe or
the Lubavitch-Rebbe. The Rebbe led the Chabad movement for
over 40 years until his death in 1944. Yeshiva Bondi says
of the Rebbe that he is widely considered to have been
responsible for guiding post-Holocaust Orthodox Jewry to
the safety from the ravages of that devastation.
The origins of the institutions to be examined in this
case study can be traced to the early 1940s when the Rebbe
was appointed to head the newly-founded educational and
social service arms of the Chabad movement. The Rebbe's
mission was to establish a worldwide outreach movement to
encourage Jews to adhere to the precepts of orthodox
Judaism. The Rebbe set about seeking to achieve this
mission by sending emissaries around the world to set up or
run appointed territories with a view to establishing the
outreach focus in that territory. In addition to outreach,
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the Rebbe encouraged emissaries to establish Jewish

educational systems for their community.
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Once the Rebbe appointed an emissary to a territory,

that emissary had the responsibility and authority to
manage, control and lead the activities of Chabad within
that territory, including the authority to appoint other
official Chabad representatives within the territory. Each
emissary was responsible for fundraising, setting up legal
entities to run its outreach and educational activities in
the appointed territory, staffing management and control.
In simple terms, the Chabad movement operated like a
franchise, with a franchisee for a territory, the emissary
having the right to appoint sub-franchisees or other
emissaries within that territory. Often the Rebbe would
send families as the emissary to a territory. Those
emissaries would in turn appoint further emissaries within
the territory who were often members of their own family or
members related by marriage and other members of the Chabad
with whom they had strong ties. That practice meant that,
at least as far as the two Chabad communities to be
examined in this case study, Yeshivah Melbourne and Yeshiva
Bondi, rabbinical leaders and those in charge of various
institutions run by Yeshivah Melbourne and Yeshiva Bondi
were and are often closely connected by strong family or
marriage ties.
I anticipate that the Commission will hear that within
a territory the emissary is absolutely autonomous in the
way in which he operates and that the emissary was only
answerable - during the Rebbe's lifetime - to the Rebbe
himself and after the Rebbe's death, in the case of any
dispute, to a religious tribunal established under the
aegis of the central Chabad organisation.
The following brief background of Yeshivah Melbourne
and Yeshiva Bondi also provides a context for the evidence.
The Yeshivah Centre in Melbourne, Victoria, was
established by a group of Jewish migrants in the late 1940s
in response to a post-war influx of Jews to Melbourne. The
Yeshivah Centre aimed to provide a wide range of
educational, social, welfare and cultural services to the
Jewish community.
In 1949 the Yeshivah Centre opened a Jewish day
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school. The success of this school led in 1954 to the

purchase of the Yeshivah College at Hotham Street, St Kilda
East, Victoria. This was in turn followed by the purchase
of a property to house the Beth Rivkah Ladies College, at
14 Balaclava Road in 1959, and 16-20 Balaclava Road in
1969.
In 1958 Rabbi Yitzchok Dovid Groner arrived in
Melbourne as an emissary of the Rebbe to take up the
position of full-time director of the Yeshivah Centre.
From 1958 until his death in 2008 Rabbi Groner was the
senior rabbi, figurehead and director of the Yeshivah
Centre. The Royal Commission expects to hear evidence that
Rabbi Groner oversaw the affairs of all Yeshivah Melbourne
entities on a day-to-day basis and is described as the
rabbi, the CEO and the decision maker. At some later point
the Yeshivah Centre set up a committee of management to
assist Rabbi Groner in the exercise of his functions and
the management of Yeshivah Melbourne.
Mr Don Wolf, a witness to be called in this inquiry,
was the chairman of Yeshivah Melbourne Committee of
Management from 1997/1998 until 2014. It is expected that
he will give evidence that Rabbi Groner asked the Committee
of Management for input from time to time as he saw fit,
but otherwise exercised absolute control of Yeshivah
Melbourne. Mr Wolf's evidence will be that all major
problems within the community went before Rabbi Groner,
whether in his office at the shule, the synagogue, or in
his home. It is expected that witnesses will say that
Rabbi Groner handled any matter perceived to be sensitive
or confidential, including allegations of violence, child
abuse, discipline or matters that might require
counselling.
In the mid to late 1980s three incorporated entities
were formed to run the various activities operated under
the auspices of Yeshivah. The three entities were Chabad
Institutions, Yeshivah Beth Rivkah Colleges Inc and Chabad
Properties Inc. Chabad Institutions is responsible for all
religious activities. This includes Chabad Youth, which
runs Jewish youth events and programs including camps.
Yeshivah Beth Rivkah Colleges Inc operates the various
school and education centres, including Yeshivah College
and the Beth Rivkah Ladies College. Both schools serve as
day schools for students from kindergarten through to year
12. Yeshivah Beth Rivkah is also responsible for the other
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early education centres, including Gurewicz Learning

Centre, Yeshivah Brighton Kindergarten and South Caulfield
Children Centre.
Notwithstanding the legal structure for the management
of Yeshivah Melbourne, it is expected that the evidence
will show a significant overlap of persons involved in the
management of the different entities and the collective
activities operated under the auspices of Yeshivah
Melbourne.
The Yeshivah Centre operates the Yeshivah Synagogue
and Young Yeshivah Synagogue where members of the Chabad
community gather to pray. Located on the properties and
closely proximate to the synagogue is a mikveh, a ritual
bathhouse. I anticipate that witnesses will give evidence
that the mikveh is a place where young and old males
undertake daily rituals of cleansing or bathing as an
adjunct to the living practice of orthodox faith and that
the mikveh is considered a sacred place and the process of
immersion in the mikveh to be a holy and purifying
experience.
The properties managed and activities operated by
Yeshivah Melbourne provide a central place for the Yeshivah
Chabad community to meet, pray, undertake further study,
educate their children, have their children participate in
other activities and undertake outreach activities. It is
anticipated that some witnesses will give evidence that the
Yeshivah Centre was at the centre of family life within the
Chabad community.
The activities undertaken by Yeshivah Melbourne are so
extensive that it describes itself as one of the largest
Jewish organisations in the southern hemisphere. For this
reason the issues explored in this case study will serve to
support the work of the Royal Commission in understanding
how a significant Jewish institution has responded to the
issue of child sexual abuse in the past and its present
practices, policies and procedures.
Yeshiva Bondi. Yeshiva Bondi was established in 1956.
In 1968 the Rebbe sent Rabbi and Rebbetzin Pinchus and
Pnina Feldman as emissaries to Sydney with the task of
organising a Chabad-Lubavitch centre to strengthen Jewish
education and outreach throughout New South Wales. Rabbi
Feldman was appointed dean and spiritual leader of the
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Yeshivah Centre and Chabad's emissary to New South Wales.

To date he remains the emissary of Chabad in New South
Wales.
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As the emissary for Chabad in New South Wales, Rabbi

Feldman has authority over spiritual questions that affect
his community and over the appointment of emissaries within
New South Wales. Since his appointment, Rabbi Pinchus
Feldman has established schools, including the Yeshivah
College Bondi, a rabbinical college, the Yeshivah Gedola
Rabbinical College, many synagogues and set up Chabad
outreach entities including Young Adult Chabad. The
Yeshivah Centre operates the Yeshivah Shule, the Yeshivah
Gedola Rabbinical College, Yeshivah College Bondi and Young
Adult Chabad.
Originally the Yeshivah Centre at Bondi operated

through a charitable trust called the Sydney Talmudical
College Association, STCA. Two entities operated the
schools: Yeshivah College Limited and Yeshivah Jewish Day
School Limited. Until 2003 Rabbi Feldman was involved in
the management of the schools and other activities
undertaken by STCA. At the end of 2003 and after a change
of management, Yeshivah College Limited changed its name to
Kesser Torah College Limited. Rabbi Feldman is likely to
give evidence that as and from 2003 he ceased to have any
role in the management of the corporate entity known as
Yeshivah College Limited or Kesser Torah College Limited.
In 2004 home schooling arrangements were commenced for
children of Chabad adherence at the Yeshivah in Bondi. By
2007 these home schooling arrangements led to an
application for registration with the Board of Studies and
in 2008 a new entity, Yeshivah College Bondi Limited, was
established. Rabbi Feldman is the emissary and final
arbiter of religious matters associated with the school
operated by Yeshivah College Bondi Limited.
The Yeshivah Centre also runs the Yeshivah Gedola, a
tertiary vocational school providing education and training
for young men wishing to be ordained as rabbis. In 1986
Rabbi Boruch Lesches was appointed the Rosh Yeshivah or the
dean of the Yeshivah Gedola in Bondi. In 1993 Rabbi Yosef
Feldman, son of Rabbi Pinchus Feldman, became supervisor of
the students and a few years later was appointed the
rabbinical administrator. Rabbi Yosef Feldman remains the
rabbinical administrator of the Yeshivah Gedola.
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Cultural, historical and religious influences. The

Chabad communities are defined by their strict observance
of Orthodox Judaism. I anticipate that witnesses will give
evidence that the religious observances and practices that
a strict observance of orthodox Judaism requires for Chabad
adherents and the central role those practices play in the
day to day life of community members.
I anticipate that witnesses will also give evidence
that the communities were insular and set apart from the
wider secular community. Witnesses are expected to give
evidence that historically there was no sex education
whilst growing up, and that family members and members of
the community did not openly discuss the issue of sex.
Young boys and young girls were segregated, and there
was a strict separation of genders for activities within
the community. I anticipate that witnesses will also give
evidence that a person's standing in the community and
community attitudes to a member could affect either
positively or adversely a member's prospect of marriage and
of economic opportunities.
Witnesses are also expected to give evidence about the
role of the head rabbi, the religious leader in the
community. I anticipate that the head rabbis from Yeshivah
Melbourne and Yeshiva Bondi will each give evidence that
they alone were responsible for answering all Jewish or
rabbinic queries regarding Jewish laws for their respective
Chabad communities and were largely autonomous in the way
in which they led the communities as spiritual leaders.
As adherence to the Orthodox faith was the central
focus of the day-to-day life of the Chabad community, the
head rabbi had a unique role to communicate to the
community the proper interpretation and application of
Jewish law.
Jewish law. Jewish law is called Halocho and
documents examined by the Commission indicate that
witnesses will often refer to whether something or an act
is halachically permitted; that is whether Jewish law
permits something to be done. I anticipate that witnesses
within the Chabad community will give evidence of the
importance of ensuring that one acts in a way that is
halachically or legally permitted. It will be necessary in
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this inquiry to examine aspects of Jewish law to understand

whether there are any impediments under Jewish law to an
effective institutional response to issues of child sexual
abuse.
One of the concepts of Jewish law that I anticipate
will be examined in this inquiry is the concept of mesirah.
Religious leaders called to give evidence will be able to
assist the Commission with their understanding of the
concept of mesirah and its application, if at all, in how
leaders and the institutions respond to issues of child
sexual abuse in Chabad communities.
In summary, the concept of mesirah is understood to be
a prohibition against a Jewish person handing over or
informing on another Jewish person to a secular or
non-rabbinic authority. It is understood that the
prohibition mandated by mesirah developed as a response to
the persecution of Jews throughout history, and accordingly
Jewish religious law mandated that a Jew is not permitted
to hand over or inform on a fellow Jew to the secular
authorities.
Historically, being in the hands of corrupt police or
constabulary was a death sentence for Jews, and the concept
of mesirah was one of particular concern for Jews
persecuted in Europe in both the pre and post war era.
From that perspective the concept of mesirah was one
intimately connected to survival of the Jewish people. A
person who engaged in mesirah was labelled a moser, an
informer.
Through various witnesses this inquiry will examine
whether the concept of mesirah has played any role in
inhibiting an effective response to issues of child sexual
abuse. This inquiry will examine whether the concept of
mesirah has influenced the attitude of rabbinical leaders
and community members in their treatment of victims of
abuse who participate in the criminal process. The inquiry
will examine whether mesirah and other beliefs or cultural
attitudes operate to inhibit or act to dissuade victims of
abuse and witnesses from being able to freely report and
cooperate with police and other authorities in the
investigation and prosecution of child abuse crimes.
The inquiry will also examine the role of Jewish
rabbinical courts, called Beth Dins, and whether they play
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any role in responding to issues of child sexual abuse.

The Commission will examine whether religious law or
cultural attitudes influence the response of leaders and
the community to people who spoke out against abuse or who
have publicly criticised past practices or called for the
institutions to be accountable.
Witnesses to be called to examine the institutional
response of Yeshivah Melbourne. The inquiry will hear
evidence from four victims: [AVA], Manny Waks, [AVB] and
[AVR], and will also hear evidence from members of the
victims' families: [AVQ], mother of [AVA]; witness
Zephaniah Waks, father of Manny Waks; and witness [AVC],
wife of witness [AVB].
Witness to be known as [AVA]. [AVA] was a student of
Yeshivah College between 1986 and 1988. Between 1986 and
1989, when he was between 14 and 17 years old, he was
sexually abused by Shmuel David Cyprys. Cyprys would later
plead guilty to charges arising from the abuse.
[AVA] met Cyprys when he was 14 and in year 8 at
Yeshivah College, after starting in an after-school martial
arts program. Cyprys was 18 at the time and an
instructor's aide at [AVA]'s kung fu classes. In the
second half of 1986 [AVA] started to have one-on-one kung
fu classes with Cyprys outside of normal classes. Cyprys
then started to abuse [AVA].
[AVA] will give evidence that late in 1986 he
disclosed his abuse to his mother, [AVQ]. He will give
evidence of events that occurred after that disclosure and
including being called to see Rabbi Groner, the head of
Yeshivah Melbourne. [AVA] will give evidence of his
conversation with Rabbi Groner. Cyprys remained giving
kung fu lessons to [AVA] and the abuse continued for a
further two years.
[AVQ]. [AVQ] is [AVA]'s mother and will give evidence
of conversations she had with Rabbi Groner first in 1986
and later in relation to [AVQ]'s subsequent disclosures of
further abuse.
Manny Waks. Manny Waks was a student of Yeshivah
College during the period in which the late Rabbi Groner
was the head of the Yeshivah Centre. Manny Waks will give
evidence of his abuse in 1988 by [AVP] and later between
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1987 and 1990 by Cyprys. Manny Waks will describe how he

was first abused at 11 years of age and was later taunted
and bullied when he disclosed that abuse to a friend.
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Manny Waks will give evidence that from 1987 until

1990, when Manny Waks was about 12 years old and until he
was 14 and a half years old, Cyprys sexually abused him.
At the time it appeared to Manny Waks that Cyprys was
responsible for security at the Yeshivah Centre. He worked
as a locksmith at the centre and taught martial arts
classes. Cyprys was 20 years old.
The
Yeshivah
describe
the time
abuse would occur in class, in or about the

Centre premises and in the mikveh. He will
the feelings of fear, guilt and shame suffered at
and his inability to disclose the abuse.
This case study will examine Manny Waks's experience

of the abuse, his first disclosure to police in 1996 and
conversations which Manny Waks says he had with Rabbi
Groner about Cyprys's abuse. I anticipate that Mr Waks
will also give evidence of his experience of the response
of leaders and community members to his public disclosure
of his abuse in July 2011, his call for the Yeshivah Centre
to be accountable for the abuse and the subsequent work
he's undertaken through Tzedek, an Australia based support
and advocacy group for Jewish victims and survivors of
child sexual abuse set up and managed by Mr Waks until late
last year.
I anticipate Mr Waks will give evidence that he and
his family members have been subject to criticism and
ostracisation by leaders and members of the Chabad
community of both Melbourne and Sydney, and that evidence
will be the subject of inquiry by this Commission.
Zephaniah Waks. Zephaniah Waks is expected to give
evidence of his actions in 1992 to report to leaders of the
Yeshivah Centre allegations that Rabbi David Kramer was
abusing students of the primary school. Zephaniah Waks
will be examined about the response by the school to those
complaints and other circumstances surrounding Rabbi David
Kramer's departure from Australia.
I anticipate the inquiry will hear evidence from
Zephaniah Waks of his experience and events occurring in
the community after his son's public disclosure of sexual
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abuse and following Manny Waks's work as a public advocate

for Jewish victims and survivors of child sexual abuse. It
is expected that Zephaniah Waks will assert that he and his
family have been ostracised by leaders and members of
Yeshivah Melbourne following his son's public disclosure of
abuse at Yeshivah College and his son's public advocacy
work, and that evidence will be the subject of inquiry by
this Commission.
[AVR]. [AVR] was also a student of Yeshivah College
during the period in which the late Rabbi Groner was the
head of the Yeshivah Centre. I anticipate that [AVR] will
give evidence of the circumstances that led to him being
accepted to Yeshivah College Melbourne on a scholarship,
the circumstances in which he met Cyprys, his repeated
sexual abuse by Cyprys, and disclosures by him to religious
leaders and Yeshivah College management contemporaneously
with his abuse. That evidence will be examined by this
inquiry.
[AVB]. [AVB] will give evidence of his abuse by
Cyprys and Daniel Gug Hayman whilst a student at Yeshivah
College Bondi. In the late 1980s [AVB] was a student at
Yeshivah College Bondi when in the mid-year holidays,
around 1984/85, he met Cyprys when he attended a religious
learning program during which students from Melbourne would
come and stay in the classrooms at Yeshivah College in
Bondi. Cyprys would be one of those students. Cyprys
befriended [AVB] and then sexually assaulted him.
In 1987 and 1988 [AVB] attended a Camp Gan Israel, an
activity organised by Yeshivah at Stanwell Tops. At this
camp Hayman forcibly sexually assaulted [AVB]. In 1988
[AVB] moved to Melbourne. In 2011 [AVB] approached
Victorian police to outline his complaints about Cyprys and
Hayman. Shortly thereafter the police launched an
investigation into various offenders and wrote to members
of the Yeshivah community seeking their assistance with
their investigations.
On 17 June 2011, following the police letter to
members of the community, [AVB] would send an email to
contacts within the community attaching the letter from
the Victorian police that requested public assistance in
relation to their investigations that were being conducted
in relation to sexual assaults at Yeshivah College,
Melbourne. He also attached to that letter a letter from
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the Rabbinical Council of Victoria, a resolution that

stated that prohibition against mesirah did not apply in
cases of child sexual abuse.
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[AVB] will give evidence of the response of leaders

and the community to his email of 17 June 2011 and his
actions in assisting the police in their inquiries.
I anticipate that [AVB]'s evidence is that he and his
family have been the subject of criticism and ostracisation
from leaders and from the community and that that evidence
will be one of the areas of inquiry by this Commission.
[AVC]. [AVC] is the wife of [AVB]. [AVC] is called

to give evidence of her experience of the effects of the
abuse on [AVB] and of how she and her family have been
treated by rabbinical leaders and the community following
the public revelation of [AVB]'s abuse and also [AVB]'s
involvement in police investigations.
Additional witnesses - Yeshivah Melbourne. This
Commission will hear from rabbinical leaders and management
of Yeshivah Melbourne. The Commission will also call
rabbinical leaders from community organisations that have
had some role to play in responding to child sexual abuse
within the Chabad community.
The following witnesses will be called to examine the
events concerning Yeshivah Melbourne. First, Rabbi Zvi
Hersh Telsner, currently the head rabbi of the Yeshivah
Centre, a role held by him since 2007. Rabbi Telsner is
the son-in-law of the late Rabbi Groner. Rabbi Telsner is
in charge of all religious services of the main Yeshivah
Centre and answers all Jewish rabbinic queries regarding
Jewish law for the Chabad community in East St Kilda and
beyond. As the head rabbi, Rabbi Telsner has a significant
leadership role in providing guidance to the community on
matters of Jewish law. Rabbi Telsner will be called to
examine his actions in responding to the issues of child
sexual abuse from 2011 when the Yeshivah community first
became aware of investigations by Victorian police into
allegations of abuse by David Kramer. This case study will
examine the way in which he has led his community's
response to the issue of child abuse and to victims who go
to police and publicly speak out about their abuse within
the Yeshivah community.
Rabbi Abraham Glick.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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Yeshivah Centre as a teacher in 1970, progressing to be the

head teacher of Jewish studies at Yeshivah College.
Between 1986 and 2007 he was the principal of Yeshivah
College. Rabbi Groner was the head rabbi of Yeshivah
Melbourne at the time. He is called to give evidence about
management of Yeshivah College as principal and when he
first became aware of allegations of abuse by David Cyprys,
Rabbi David Kramer and Aaron Kestecher and what steps, if
any, he took in response to any information received.
Don Wolf. Don Wolf is a former member and chairman of
the Committee of Management at the Yeshivah Centre. He was
a member of the Committee of Management from the early
1980s, and in 1997/1998 he assumed the role of chairman of
the committee. He retired from the role of chairperson in
early 2014. Mr Wolf is expected to give evidence about the
management of Yeshivah from the early 1980s to late 2014
and on the institution's response to the issue of child
sexual abuse since that time. He is also expected to give
evidence about the circumstances and need that led to the
Yeshivah Centre's letter dated 20 August 2012 to the
community.
Nechama Bendet. Nechama Bendet is the director of
development at Yeshivah Centre. Ms Bendet is the former
general manager of the Yeshivah Centre. Ms Bendet started
working at Yeshivah on a permanent basis in 1991 as a
teacher and has since worked in a range of clerical and
administrative roles within the Yeshivah Centre. Ms Bendet
will also be able to give evidence about the structure and
management of Yeshivah from 1986.
Rabbi Mordechai Gutnick. Rabbi Mordechai Gutnick is a
senior rabbi of the Elwood Shule and president of the
Rabbinical Council of Victoria since 2014. It is expected
that Rabbi Gutnick will give evidence of actions taken by
him and the Board of Management of the Elwood Shule in
response to information received in 2010 and 2011 of
allegations of abuse against David Cyprys. David Cyprys
was at the time a member of the Board of Management of the
Elwood Shule.
The case study will also examine the response of Rabbi
Gutnick to later charges against David Cyprys and the
circumstances that led to a letter being prepared by Rabbi
Gutnick dated 26 September 2011 on behalf of David Cyprys
for use at his bail hearing.
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Rabbi Joshua Smukler, principal of Yeshivah-Beth

Rivkah Colleges since 2010. Rabbi Smukler will give
evidence of the school's approach to child protection, the
policies and processes in place for notification of child
abuse reports and school governance issues. Rabbi Smukler
is also expected to give evidence of the school's response
to recent complaints of inappropriate behaviour with
children by a volunteer, Ezzy Kestecher, and how the
Yeshivah responded in 2014 to recent complaints against a
member of staff, [AVM].
Rabbi Yaakov Shneur Zalman Glasman. Rabbi Glasman is
a past president of the Rabbinical Council of Victoria, the
RCV. The Rabbinical Council of Victoria is a religious
leadership body whose primary role is to represent
Victoria's congregational rabbis. The Rabbinical Council
has no responsibility for any schools, synagogue, youth
group or other organisation and does not provide any direct
services to the community. However, as a religious
leadership body, the Rabbinical Council seeks to provide
clear religious guidance on matters affecting the Jewish
community, including on the issue of how to respond to
child sexual abuse.
Lastly, Rabbi Kluwgant, current president of the
Organisation of Rabbis of Australasia, ORA, and former
president of the Rabbinical Council of Victoria. Rabbi
Kluwgant is expected to give evidence of the structure and
role of the Rabbinical Council and the Organisation of
Rabbis of Australasia within the Jewish community,
particularly in responding to allegations of child sexual
abuse from the 1980s to the present. This inquiry will
also examine public statements issued by those
organisations on the issue of child sexual abuse.
Witnesses called to examine the response of Yeshiva
Bondi. This inquiry will examine the response of religious
leaders of Yeshiva Bondi to allegations of abuse by Daniel
Hayman and to the subsequent charge and conviction of
Daniel Hayman. The Commission will also examine the nature
of complaints of sexual abuse made against a person to be
identified as [AVL] who at the time of the complaints was a
rabbinical student of the Yeshivah Gedola in Bondi.
The Commission will inquire into the circumstances of
[AVL]'s departure from Australia shortly after the
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complaints about his conduct were reported to rabbinical

leaders and management of Yeshiva Bondi. The Commission
will examine the practices and policies in place for
responding to child sexual abuse.
It was expected that the Commission will hear evidence
from Rabbi Pinchus Feldman, Chabad emissary for New South
Wales since 1968 and head rabbi and spiritual leader for
Chabad-Lubavitch New South Wales. Rabbi Feldman is
expected to give evidence of his knowledge of and
complaints received about child abuse by Daniel Hayman and
[AVL] and his actions, if any, in response to those
complaints or information. Rabbi Feldman is also expected
to give evidence of the structure and management of Yeshiva
Bondi.
Rabbi Yosef Feldman, presently the rabbinical
administrator of the Yeshivah Gedola Rabbinical College.
Rabbi Yosef Feldman is expected to give evidence of his
response to a complaint made against [AVL] and of his
response to any information or complaint involving Daniel
Hayman and his response to the charging and sentencing of
Daniel Hayman.
Rabbi Moshe Gutnick, a former teacher at Yeshiva Bondi
and a senior dayan or judge of the Sydney Beth Din, a
rabbinical court. Rabbi Gutnick, Moshe Gutnick, is a
former president of the Organisation of Rabbis of
Australasia. Rabbi Gutnick is expected to give evidence
about his knowledge and response to allegations of child
sexual abuse at Yeshiva Bondi, the role of the ORA in
Australia and public statements made by the ORA on the
issue of child sexual abuse.
This inquiry is expected to run for two weeks and to
conclude on Friday, 13 February 2015. May it please you,
Your Honour and Commissioners.
Thank you, Ms Gerace. We will take
a short adjournment in a moment, but just before we do that
I just confirm that I am sitting in this public hearing
with Commissioner Fitzgerald and Commissioner Murray.
I will confirm the sitting times for those who are less
familiar with the public hearing process the Royal
Commission has engaged in. We will sit from 10 each
morning throughout the conduct of this public hearing until
4 in the afternoon. We will take a lunch adjournment
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between 1 and 2, and generally take a mid-morning break

around 11.30. That mid-morning break will be adjusted
depending on where we are in the evidence at any given
time.
It's been the experience of the Royal Commission
during the conduct of these public hearings that emotions
can run quite high, understandably. So it's well
understood by us that people may wish at any given time
during the course of the evidence before the Commission to
leave the hearing room and not be present whilst some parts
of the evidence are being given. It's perfectly
appropriate to move in and out of the hearing room at any
given time. We only ask that people do that with proper
understanding that it can be distracting in particular for
witnesses giving evidence if that movement causes some
noise or distraction. So please bear that in mind if you
feel the need to move in and out of the hearing room.
I should say with respect to hearing times that there
is one adjustment to that this week which is on Thursday
morning the Commission will be unable to sit until 11.30 on
Thursday morning. So instead of commencing at 10 on
Thursday morning of this week we will commence at 11.30.
Just returning to the issue of emotions running high,
there are present in and around the hearing room support
officers from the Royal Commission. I can see Mr Eric
Hudson present in the back of the hearing room. Mr Hudson
is leading the support team present here for the assistance
of any person who wishes for that assistance, and please
feel free to take the opportunity to introduce yourself to
Mr Hudson and seek any assistance that you feel you may
need. Otherwise, Ms Gerace, we will take a short
adjournment now to just prepare the hearing room for the
first witness.
MS GERACE:
Thank you, Your Honour.
SHORT ADJOURNMENT
MS GERACE:
Your Honour, Commissioners, I will now
commence to call the witnesses to be heard in this inquiry
and we will commence by calling the witness to be known as
[AVA]. Mr [AVA] will take an affirmation, Your Honour.
<[AVA], affirmed:
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
[11.33am]
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<EXAMINATION BY MS GERACE:
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MS GERACE:
Q. Mr [AVA], we have given you a pseudonym
for this inquiry and so through your evidence if it is
necessary I will refer to you as [AVA]. You currently work
in the telecommunications industry, is that right, IT?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And you have provided a statement to the Royal
Commission dated 15 January 2015?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you have any amendments you want to make to that
statement at all?
A.
No.
Q.
Is your statement true and correct to the best of your
knowledge?
A.
Yes.
Q.
What I'm going to ask you to do, if you would, please,
is read your statement perhaps commencing from
"Background", paragraph 3. If at any time you need a break
or some assistance in the reading, please let me know?
A.
Yes. My name is known to the Royal Commission. I was
born in 1972. I was raised in an Orthodox Jewish family.
As part of this upbringing I attended Yeshivah College in
Hotham Street, East St Kilda, Melbourne, from 1986 to about
1988. Yeshivah College is part of the Yeshivah Centre and
is situated on the same grounds as the Yeshivah Centre.
Between 1986 and 1989 when I was 14 to 17 years old
I was sexually abused by David Cyprys. In 2011 David
pleaded guilty to indecent assault and gross indecency
committed against me.
I met David in 1986 when I was in year 8 at Yeshivah
College as part of an after school martial arts program.
David was about 18 years old at the time. He was an
instructor's aide at my kung fu classes, which were held in
the gymnasium at Beth Rivkah College. In the second half
of 1986 I started to have one-on-one kung fu lessons with
David outside of the normal classes.
At the time, I was going through a difficult period in
my life because my parents were in the middle of a divorce.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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I liked David and I liked the attention that he showed me.

I have no doubt now that David selected me because I was
vulnerable and an easy target.
The abuse began when David took me for private kung fu
lessons. I had lived a fairly sheltered life and I didn't
understand what was happening. The abuse continued for
about three years from 1986 to 1989. The abuse mostly
occurred at night in the mikveh, the ritual bath, at the
Yeshivah Centre which I had never been to before. That's
the ritual bath, not the Yeshivah Centre. On about two
occasions the abuse occurred at Yeshivah College. On one
of these occasions David took me to a classroom because
someone was in the mikveh. David had keys for the entire
property. The abuse also occurred at the Yeshivah Gedola
Rabbinical College.
One day in 1986 on a Saturday or Sunday I was walking
to my mother's house with my older brother. I would have
been approximately 14 and my brother would have been
approximately 15. My brother noticed that I had extra
money. When asked, I told my brother that David had been
paying me to expose myself to him. I did not tell my
brother the extent of the abuse. When we arrived at my
mother's house, my brother immediately told her what I had
said to him.
My mother rang Rabbi Groner, the head of the Yeshivah
Centre. My mother sent me to my room while she talked to
Rabbi Groner. I felt like I was in trouble. No one told
me what was happening.
About 2002, before I went to the police, I was talking
to my mother about what had happened. She recounted to me
that Rabbi Groner had said to her in that telephone
conversation, "I thought we had fixed him" and Rabbi Groner
had assured my mother that he would "take care of it".
My mother grew up in the Orthodox Jewish community.
My understanding is that she felt a close connection to
Rabbi Groner because her family was friendly with the
Groner family. Rabbi Groner was an authority that she
trusted so she did not question him.
When I returned to school on the Monday I was called
into Rabbi Groner's office. I believe I was sent to see
Rabbi Groner by Rabbi Glick, who was the headmaster,
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C5989
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because a student was not usually summarily called to Rabbi

Groner's office. Rabbi Groner was an imposing man and a
very large figure in the community. Being called to his
office was not something that students like me took
lightly.
I do not remember the exact words that Rabbi Groner
said to me during this meeting. I know that we did not
discuss any specifics of what had happened, but Rabbi
Groner told me that he would "look after" the situation
with David. At no time did Rabbi Groner offer to refer me
to a counsellor.
I remember that after that meeting with Rabbi Groner,
when I returned to my class, I apologised to David's
brother who was in my class for getting David in trouble.
Reflecting on this apology now makes me feel sick.
I do not think anything was done in response to the
situation. David was still around at Yeshivah and
I continued to have kung fu lessons with him.
I now believe that David groomed me for the abuse he
inflicted on me from the time I first met him. At one
point David asked me if I knew anyone else who would be
interested in doing the things we were doing.
The abuse ultimately ended when I was approximately
17 years of age. My contact with David also came to an end
at this time.
From the age of 16 or so I started to smoke marijuana.
For a long time I self-medicated with marijuana to try and
drown out and dull the pain, to forget what had happened to
me. I lived for many years with this addiction. During my
20s I could not drink alcohol because when I did I had
uncontrollable anger issues. By the time I was 30 I smoked
over two grams of marijuana a day.
I decided to commence counselling to help me stop
using marijuana. I realised during my counselling that
I had blocked out the sexual abuse from my mind for
approximately 15 years. It was an uncomfortable
realisation. I soon recognised the impact that the sexual
abuse had on me and I decided to make a report to the
police.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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In about 2002 I spoke with my mother about reporting

to the police. She told me about the telephone discussion
she had with Rabbi Groner in 1986 when he told her they
thought they had fixed David. I told her that the abuse
had continued after this. After I had told my mother this,
she called Rabbi Groner. After my mother had finished her
telephone conversation with Rabbi Groner, she told me that
when she had told Rabbi Groner that my abuse by David had
continued after the initial conversation in 1986, Rabbi
Groner said, "Are you going to the police?" My mother told
me that when she said we were going to report it to the
police, Rabbi Groner replied, "We have nothing more to talk
about."
In April 2003 I provided a statement to the police
reporting the sexual abuse by David. The police were
friendly and supportive and did their best to make me feel
comfortable. After contacting the police I stopped smoking
marijuana and I have not touched it since.
In 2003 or 2004 the police told me that charges
against David could not be pursued, largely because I could
not remember specific dates or times. I was devastated.
I had spent a long time trying to forget the events and was
also coming off an addiction to marijuana. At the time
I made the initial statement to the police I was so
emotionally and physically disturbed that I was unable to
recall precise details surrounding the abuse that had
occurred.
I now know that David had been charged with indecent
exposure or assault in the early 1990s. I find it
upsetting that nothing further was done when I made my
first statement to the police in 2003, considering that at
the time of my contact with the police David had a criminal
history.
Some time in 2011 I saw articles in the newspapers
about child sexual abuse within the Yeshivah community.
I also found out that David was still working within and
around the Yeshivah College. This discovery physically
sickened me - I literally felt like vomiting. I felt a
sense of responsibility that maybe I should have done more
in 2003 so that he could not be around children.
Realising that there had been other victims of Cyprys
motivated me to go back to the police. Because I was
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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mentally more stable, I felt better able to recall and

present the events as they happened. In July 2011
I assisted police with further investigations and the
subsequent prosecution of David for child sexual abuse. As
part of this I provided two additional statements to police
to clarify my initial statement from 2003. Detective Lisa
Metcher assisted me in preparing these statements and she
put the charges before the court. Lisa was great. She was
particularly supportive and communicative.
When the Office of Public Prosecutions became
involved, I found the process frustrating. For instance,
when the OPP was supposed to provide me with documentation
there was often a lag in the provision of information and
responses. I always followed up with them because I wanted
to know what was going on and I wanted to be informed of
any delay.
In May 2012 David was committed to stand trial for
what he had done to me and to other students at the
Yeshivah College. David ultimately pleaded guilty to the
charges relating to me during plea bargaining. Prior to
this David maintained his innocence and as such I knew that
I would be required to give evidence. This made me feel
really tense and anxious to the point that I was struggling
to function with day-to-day routine activities. My
impression from movies and television was that the criminal
process could be cathartic, but I have not found that to be
the case at all.
I prepared a victim impact statement as part of the
criminal process. I was given the choice as to whether to
read it myself or provide it to the judge to read directly.
I asked the OPP whether it would make a difference if
I read it myself or provided it to the judge to read. The
OPP said that it would not change the impact of the
statement, so I decided to not read it out myself and
instead it was given to the judge to read. I have
generally tried to keep a low profile in relation to these
matters and would like to continue to do so.
The criminal process was very difficult for me because
I had to talk to so many people about what was done to me
by David. I worried about what people would think and how
they would judge me. It caused my anxiety levels to rise
considerably.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C5992
[AVA] (Ms Gerace)
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Partly as a result of the sexual abuse, I dropped out

of high school. I was fortunate enough to have a hobby in
computing so I was able to become gainfully employed. The
sexual abuse affected every aspect of my life. It caused
me pain, suffering and sadness. It robbed me of my
innocence, my childhood and my life. I have lived a long
time thinking that maybe I did something wrong. I have
lived with feelings of guilt and shame for the actions and
wrongdoing of someone else.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Yeshivah
Centre and some of the rabbis were aware of David's
penchant for young boys. Despite this, he was still a
security guard and he had the keys to access all areas of
the Yeshivah Centre and college. This gave David access to
kids. In my opinion, the first thought of the leaders of
the Yeshivah Centre was to protect Yeshivah and its
reputation, not me or the other children.
I have separated from the Jewish community completely
and lost complete faith in religion. It is too horrible
and incomprehensible to think that there could be an
omnipotent being when the world can be so nasty. My life
spiralled out of control as a result of the sexual abuse.
I have been diagnosed by a psychiatric specialist with
chronic dysthymia, episodes of major depression in partial
remission, post-traumatic stress disorder, and substance
abuse in remission. I have also been diagnosed with
generalised anxiety disorder and chronic insomnia. I have
suffered significantly from these disorders. I have
regular suicidal ideation which requires medication to
control. Even with medication I still think about suicide
to the point that it is almost a part of me. I require
Stilnox to sleep at night and can only sleep anywhere
between two to six hours. Without medication I sleep less
than one hour a night.
The sexual abuse impacted my social and intimate life.
I felt scared to get close to people and subsequently felt
guilty that I have kept people at a distance.
The sexual abuse has also had a great financial impact
on my life. I used to spend approximately $250 a week on
marijuana and now I spend about $90 a month on my
medications.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C5993
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The abuse also affected my earning capacity. The

baggage of being a victim and my drug and anger problems
caused me to miss out on career opportunities. Had this
not been the case, I believe that my earnings today would
be significantly higher. I have now gained two masters
degrees and work in a relatively senior management role in
a large enterprise.
I believe these professional opportunities could have

been available to me earlier, but I had no real career
aspirations. My days previously consisted of going to work
and going home to smoke marijuana. My anxiety and insomnia
also impacted on my studies as I had to withdraw late from
some classes, which had a financial and emotional toll.
I have kept quite about my abuse because there is a
stigma attached to being a victim. That stigma can be
career limiting. I have only told a few work colleagues
because I have had to take time off to give evidence at
court. It is hard enough to climb the corporate ladder
without having people feeling sorry for you and worry that
you are going to crack under pressure.
I understand that I was one of David's earlier victims
and part of me feels responsible for not doing all I could
to remove David from the Yeshivah Centre, especially for
the period between 2003 and 2011. I am now involved with
Neighbourhood Watch. I am a very big believer in having a
safe community.
The sexual abuse has also had an impact on my family.
My brother holds a lot of anger over what happened to me.
I think that he feels he was negligent in his older brother
duties. My father is sympathetic but I think he feels a
bit helpless because he doesn't quite understand. I think
he would prefer it all to be brushed under the carpet
because he worries that it hurts the Yeshivah community.
My mother feels somewhat responsible and quite betrayed by
the Yeshivah community.
My wife has had to put up with some ups and downs from
me. She has stood by me and I really appreciate that
because sometimes I'm not the easiest person to live with.
Occasionally I have strong depressive moods where I want to
be left alone.
In December 2004 I contacted Maurice Blackburn and in
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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early 2005 I spoke to a lawyer, Vivian Waller. I sought

advice about a civil law claim for compensation. Although
Maurice Blackburn opened a file for me, I was undecided
about whether or not I wished to proceed with the
investigation, so the matter did not progress. Ultimately,
I decided not to go ahead with the civil claim and the file
was closed in December 2005. I decided against the claim,
as I worried that the police had decided not to progress
matters and at that time I thought I was the only victim
prepared to come forward. Also at the time my
psychological state was not good. It seemed like an uphill
battle and too much of a risk.
In mid-2011 I approached Dr Vivian Waller, now at a
firm called Waller Legal, to seek redress from the Yeshivah
for their failure to protect me from David. She acts on
behalf of a group of people sexually assaulted at the
Yeshivah. By then, knowing that there had been other
victims and support around me, I wanted to revisit making a
claim but I was told that there would be limitation
problems. I had not realised this.
Seeking redress is something that I thought long and
hard about. It's not about the money. It's about making
the Yeshivah Centre and the Yeshivah College feel it where
it hurts. I hold David responsible for molesting me. He
is broken and he will never change, but the Yeshivah Centre
and the Yeshivah College knew that David was molesting me
and it went on for another two years after they were told.
They had a duty of care to me and I believe they are
responsible for failing to prevent that abuse.
I was not the best behaved student and they asked me
to leave the school, yet David my abuser continued to work
there. He was still working there with children up until
2011. I do not care how cured they thought he was. You do
not leave someone with that sort of inclination anywhere
near kids. I think that the only thing they will
understand is if they suffer financially.
I have come forward to the Royal Commission for a
private session because I believe I should do everything
I can to reduce the risk that another child might be
sexually abused.
I think that the best avenue for protecting children
would be to ensure that they are educated about sexual
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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abuse as part of the school curriculum. If I had not felt

like I was in trouble because of my sexual abuse and if
someone had talked to me and given me some sort of sex
education and explained what was right and what was wrong,
things may have turned out differently.
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In my opinion, the only way of stopping institutions

from hiding or not reporting abusers is to make sure that
they feel the financial impacts of their actions. This
would be assisted by removing the statute of limitations
that I understand exists on civil actions related to child
sexual abuse. At the end of the day, an institution needs
to be responsible for what it did or didn't do to protect
children.
I think that there needs to be sexual assault
counselling services available that are sensitive to every
demographic, including services tailored to male victims.
I have felt that some of the counsellors that I have seen
who specialise in sexual abuse do not create a safe space
for men in their offices. In general, these are not geared
to men in their 40s because we are mostly viewed as
perpetrators instead of victims of sexual abuse. For
example, brochures are directed to female victims about
male perpetrators. Similarly, there are many support
groups for female victims. I felt uncomfortable in the
waiting rooms of counselling services where a lot of other
clients were female. I was conscious that I was possibly
making them uncomfortable, too, just with my presence.
I understand that there needs to be a safe space for women
but it is also important that male victims have a space in
which they can feel safe.
I also think that victims of crime should be given
paid leave to give evidence in court. I find it unfair
that as a victim of crime this does not happen in the way
that it does for people required to be on a jury. Victims
of crime have to use their own leave. I am more fortunate
than others because I have enough leave accumulated, but
I am not the norm. I can imagine it would be even more
disruptive for other people.
Similarly, it would be useful if measures were put in
place for people who are employed on a full-time basis to
be able to access counselling services more easily.
I found it difficult to attend regular counselling because
it interferes with my job.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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[AVA] (Ms Gerace)
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Q.
Thank you. [AVA], I noticed when you were reading

your statement that in paragraph 6, if that could be shown
to [AVA], the date that appears there says 2011 that David
Cyprys pleaded guilty to an indecent assault. You seemed
to hesitate. Is that the correct date?
A.
I'm actually not sure what the actual date he pleaded
guilty. I think it was 2012.
Q.
A.
All right. Thank you.

I could be wrong on that one.
Q.
That's all right. We will check the records. I just
noticed your hesitation. Commissioners, I don't have any
further questions for witness [AVA], but could I tender
[AVA]'s statement.
Exhibit 22.1.
EXHIBIT #22.1 STATEMENT OF [AVA]

I will allow you to go last,
Dr Hanscombe, unless you wanted to go first?
DR HANSCOMBE:
Thank you, Your Honour. But I have nothing
that I seek to adduce further from the witness.
MS RICHARDS:
Thank you.
Ms Richards?
Nothing, Your Honour.

Anyone else at the Bar table? No
matters to raise with this witness? Thank you for your
attendance at the Royal Commission, Mr [AVA]. You are
otherwise excused.
<THE WITNESS WITHDREW
MS GERACE:
Your Honour, Commissioners, it is proposed now
to tender and read a statement from a witness to be known
as [AVQ], who is the mother of [AVA]. [AVQ] is in hospital
and is unable to attend today. I don't anticipate any
opposition to the course being proposed. We don't have
Ringtail at the moment, so I will just read that statement.
It is in fact a sworn affidavit by [AVQ] and the affidavit
was sworn on 1 February 2015, yesterday.
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My full name is [AVQ]. My date of birth is

[redacted]. I am retired. I have three
adult children. [AVA] is my son and he is
the middle child of my three children.
I am currently in hospital with gall
bladder difficulties. I have a complex
medical history and pre-existing medical
conditions that make my current condition
quite dangerous. I was treated for
Hodgkin's lymphoma in the early 1970s. The
radiation treatment administered to deal
with Hodgkin's lymphoma also damaged my
heart. At the time it was common practice
to remove the spleen as part of the
treatment and my spleen was removed.
In July 2012 I had open heart surgery to
repair the damage to my heart. The surgery
went for nine and a half hours and
subsequently I was placed in an induced
coma for three to four days. I now have
three replacement heart valves. I have had
multiple admissions to hospital over the
years. I have other complex medical issues
and I am immuno compromised due to the
removal of my spleen. I am currently on
blood thinners which I would have to come
off if I were to have any surgery. These
factors can make medical conditions
potentially life-threatening. Surgery
would normally be the treatment offered for
my current condition, however I am at
increased risk of stroke or heart attack
during surgery due to my pre-existing
medical conditions, so I am at increased
risks. I would like the Royal Commission
to accept this affidavit as my evidence.
Education of my children. Initially [AVA]
attended Yavneh College, but it did not
really suit [AVA] and the headmaster did
not take a liking to him. I do not
consider myself part of the Yeshivah Centre
community, but I rang Rabbi Groner to ask
if he would accept my son as a student at
the Yeshivah. I think my son was accepted
at Yeshivah College due to family
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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connections [to be redacted]. My father

passed away in [year to be redacted]. My
other two children attended Yavneh College
for the bulk of their education, although
my eldest son had attended Yeshivah College
for a short time as a very young child
before going to Yavneh.
[AVA] attended Yeshivah College in Hotham
Street, East St Kilda, from about 1986 to
about 1988. Yeshivah College is part of
the Yeshivah Centre and is situated on the
same grounds as the Yeshivah Centre. I did
not have much involvement in the Yeshivah
Centre while my son was a student at
Yeshivah College. I raised my children in
an Orthodox Jewish family. We did not
consider ourselves as Chabad.
I now understand that my son was sexually
abused by David Cyprys between 1986 and
1989 when he was aged between about 14 and
17 years old. I understand that in 2011
David Cyprys pleaded guilty to criminal
offences where my son was the victim.
I never met David Cyprys. I first became
aware of David Cyprys when my eldest son
said something like, "Mum, I think there is
something going on that is not right."
I cannot now recall the exact words.
I can't now remember whether it was [AVA]
or my other son who said that it was David
Cyprys who was acting sexually with [AVA],
but I learned this by speaking with one or
other of my sons or both of them. I cannot
recall the exact date, but it would have
been about 1986.
As a result of speaking with my sons that
day I rang Rabbi Groner. I remember the
conversation with Rabbi Groner clearly. He
took my call because I think my late father
was known to him. I said to Rabbi Groner,
"It has come to my attention that David
Cyprys has done something sexual towards my
son." Rabbi Groner responded, "Oh no,
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I thought we cured him," and then he said,

"Don't worry about it, I will take care of
it, it will be fine."
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I was only in my 30s and I believed him,

stupidly, and I am still trying to forgive
myself for that. I believed that he would
do something about it, so I did not think
I had to do anything else about it. I also
understood from my conversation with Rabbi
Groner that Cyprys must have sexually
abused someone before and Rabbi Groner must
have known about it, because he used the
expression "I thought we had cured him".
Before that day I had not heard of David
Cyprys.
In about 2002 [AVA] spoke to me about
reporting to the police. He told me that
the sexual abuse by Cyprys had continued
after my 1986 phone call to Rabbi Groner.
I then rang Rabbi Groner. I told him about
the ongoing sexual abuse of [AVA] by Cyprys
and I said to him, "You promised me you
would take care of the matter and you
didn't and my son is suicidal," and he said
to me, "Is he going to the police?" And
I said, "Probably." And Rabbi Groner then
said, "Well, what do you need me for?" And
I think we both hung up. I don't recall
who hung up first.
I wish my identity to be suppressed, not
because I am ashamed and my son certainly
has nothing to feel ashamed about. I only
ask for suppression of my identity out of
concern for my son's wellbeing. He really
is a gorgeous human being with a big heart
and I only want the best for him. I know
that he has really struggled with
depression, weight gain and other
debilitating problems, none of which he had
before the abuse by Cyprys.
Your Honour and Commissioners, I seek the tender of the
affidavit of [AVQ].
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No objection?
22.2
EXHIBIT #22.2 AFFIDAVIT OF [AVQ]

MS GERACE:
Waks.
I now call Menahem Leib Waks, please, Manny
<MENAHEM LEIB WAKS, affirmed:
[12.02pm]
<EXAMINATION BY MS GERACE:
MS GERACE:
We will make arrangements for Mr Waks to have
his statement. Mr Waks, your name is Menahem Leib Waks,
but you are known as Manny?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
A.
And generally go by the name Manny Waks?

That's correct.
Q.
And you have until the end of last year been a public
advocate and been involved in the running of Tzedek?
A.
(Witness nods).
Q.
And you have made a statement for the Royal Commission
dated 12 January 2015?
A.
Yes, I did.
Q.
I understand from those representing you that you wish
to make a few changes to your statement?
A.
Yes, two minor ones. I don't have the paragraph
numbers in front of me, but one of them relates to Elwood
Synagogue being not on Glen Eira Road but on Dickens
Street, I think it is. And the other one just referring to
Rabbi Groner as the late Rabbi Groner, because he's no
longer -Q.
I think that appears in paragraph 7. So the words
"the late" to be inserted. "During all of my childhood the
director of the Yeshivah Centre was the late"?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Mr Waks, other than those two amendments, do you have
any other amendments you wish to make to your statement?
A.
No, I don't.
Q.
And is the statement you have made to this Commission
true and correct to the best of your knowledge?
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A.
It is.
Q.
I'm going to ask you to - firstly,
statement now.
I will tender that
22.3
EXHIBIT #22.3 STATEMENT OF MENAHEM LEIB
WAKS
MS GERACE: Mr Waks, what I might do is ask you to read

your statement. What I would ask you to do is read, if you
can, the paragraphs of your statement starting with
paragraph 3 through to 36 and then I will stop you there?
A.
My full name is Menahem Leib Waks. I am known as
Manny. My date of birth is 10 April 1976.
I am the second eldest of 17 children. I have six
sisters and 10 brothers. My mother was born in Israel and
my father in Australia.
My parents were introduced at the headquarters of the
Chabad-Lubavitch or Chabad global movement in Crown Heights
in Brooklyn, New York. After they were married they moved
to Israel. I was born in Israel and lived there until
I was seven years old. My family then moved to Sydney and
later, when I was eight years old, to Melbourne.
My family and I lived across the road from the
Melbourne Yeshivah Centre, which is part of the Chabad
movement. I grew up within the Chabad movement and my
upbringing was ultra-orthodox.
I attended Yeshivah College for my education.
Yeshivah College is a Jewish day school for boys run by the
Yeshivah Centre. It is on the same grounds as the Yeshivah
Centre. During all of my childhood the director of the
Yeshivah Centre was the late Rabbi Yitzchok Dovid Groner,
who was the most senior figure in the Yeshivah Centre.
During my childhood the Yeshivah Centre was the centre
of my universe and indeed my family's. It was where we
spent the vast majority of our time for religious,
educational and recreational purposes. The Yeshivah
community was small and insular.
In my experience, matters of a sexual nature are taboo
within the Yeshivah community and the broader Chabad
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movement. There is a strict separation of the genders for

all activities. Members of the opposite gender are not
meant to interact on any level except with their own family
members and in other certain situations. There is a strict
dress code to ensure a certain standard of modesty - for
example, females must cover themselves below their elbows
and knees. During my school years I did not have any form
of sex education - in fact, even the word "sex" was not
uttered in an educational context.
From the age of eight until I was 12 years old my
education in primary school at Yeshivah College consisted
of two to three hours of Jewish studies in the morning
followed by secular or general studies such as mathematics,
English and the like, for the remainder of the day.
The abuse. In 1988 when I was approximately 11 years
old I was sexually abused by [AVP] over a period of several
months. [AVP] would have been in his early 20s at the time
and was a member of the Yeshivah Centre community and the
son of a senior Chabad rabbi who also taught at Yeshivah
College and the Yeshivah Centre more broadly. [AVP]
befriended me when we met in the synagogue we both used to
attend in East St Kilda. FREE, it used to be called,
Friends of Refugees of Eastern Europe, the Chabad House for
members from the former Soviet Union. His role was to read
aloud from the Bible each Sabbath. While my family was not
from the former Soviet Union, we used to sing and at times
some of us would lead the services there.
The abuse first occurred at the Yeshivah
Centre - inside the synagogue itself during the Jewish
festival of Shavuot when it is customary for men to remain
awake all night to undertake religious studies. I went
upstairs to the women's section of the synagogue to rest
for a while on one of the wooden benches. [AVP] followed
me up there, sat on the bench beside me and started
stroking me on my clothes - initially on my thighs and
eventually on my groin area. He undid my belt and unzipped
my trousers and felt around my penis and groin over the top
of my underpants with one of his hands. After a short time
he stopped and said something like, "This isn't for a place
of worship, let's go outside." He led me to the adjoining
bathrooms where he continued to abuse me sexually, as
I describe in my police statement. To this day I am unsure
why I followed him. I am also unsure how or why the abuse
on that occasion ceased. [AVP] abused me again in a
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similar way on a further two occasions or so, each time on

the Sabbath at the Chabad House.
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I felt shocked and confused by what had happened to

me. I did not like or understand what was happening.
I told [AVP] to stop what he was doing to me and ultimately
he did.
In the lead-up to the abuse, [AVP] undertook what

I now understand to be a grooming process with me in that
he showed a special interest in me. On several occasions
he allowed me to drive his car on the Yeshivah premises.
I was around 11 years old.
I confided in a classmate and former close friend at
Yeshivah College what had happened to me.
Q.
Mr Waks, would you like me to read this part?
A.
No, it's okay, I will do it. Thank you. He breached
my trust by sharing this information with other students at
school. As a direct result, I was taunted and bullied and
called "gay" at school because I had been sexually abused
by a man. It is my subsequent experience that there seems
to be a misconception in many segments of the
ultra-Orthodox Jewish community who conflate homosexuality
with paedophilia.
I was bullied and taunted in the presence of teachers
at school and others in positions of authority within the
Yeshivah Centre but no one acted to stop - I'm sorry,
I feel like I need to read it. I felt that many people,
including adults and teachers at the school and centre,
knew what had happened to me and tolerated me being bullied
about it. I thought this because no one intervened or
helped me. I remember walking around feeling very
embarrassed, upset and angry. No adult at the Yeshivah
College or Centre ever asked me what was happening and
whether I was okay. Most of the time I felt completely
deserted and alone. My saving grace was my sporting
capability. For a period I was class captain in basketball
and soccer, which ensured I was not completely
marginalised. Had that not been the case I have no doubt
that my suffering would have been significantly worse.
Mid-way through year 7, when I was 12 years old,
I withdrew from secular studies and commenced full-time
religious studies. I went to Israel to study religion
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full-time for six months and then returned to Melbourne to

continue my full-time religious studies at Yeshivah College
and through private sessions in both the Yeshivah Centre
and elsewhere.
From about 1987 to 1990, when I was about 12 years old
until I was about 14 and a half years old, I was sexually
abused by a man I knew as David Cyprys. I now know his
full name to be Shmuel David Cyprys. Cyprys was
approximately 20 years old at the time - although to me he
seemed a lot older. At this time Cyprys was responsible
for security at the Yeshivah Centre, which often included
determining who was allowed on the premises. He was also
the locksmith at the Yeshivah Centre and had keys to all
the areas within the institution. He also taught karate
classes that I attended.
Cyprys was in a position of power and authority. He
seemed to be trusted by the Yeshivah Centre. He was
someone that I admired and respected, but also feared.
Cyprys generally taught karate classes in the backyard
area of Elwood Synagogue on Dickens Road. The classes were
once or twice a week, always in the evenings. Cyprys was
the only instructor and there were usually about six
students in the class. Cyprys sexually abused me during
some of these classes and also when he drove me to and from
these classes.
Initially Cyprys would suddenly come up behind me
during a karate class and pinch my backside. At that stage
I thought he was just being silly and that he was a bit
crazy, but the abuse soon started to escalate.
Cyprys would often take me and a few others to and
from the class in his white van. At Cyprys's request
I usually sat in the front passenger seat next to Cyprys
and, after a while, Cyprys began touching me over the top
of my clothes on my penis and groin. One time he dropped
my brothers off first and then parked the van nearby and
touched my penis and groin area over the top of my
tracksuit pants.
On at least one occasion, when he gave us a training
exercise that required us to stand with our legs spread
wide, he grabbed my crotch area from behind and squeezed my
penis and testicles. He had placed me in the back of the
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class and so no-one would have seen any of his sexual

assaults.
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On another occasion he said that I had done something

wrong in class and he needed to punish me. He took me
outside while everyone else was told to continue
practising. He gave me two options in the form of a
punishment. I cannot recall the first option - only that
it was something impossible for me to do. The other option
was to drop my pants and run around the yard half naked.
He effectively left me with only one choice, to run several
laps in the yard without any pants on while he watched.
I remember feeling humiliated and distressed. However,
I felt I had no choice but to comply because I was
relatively powerless compared to him and I was worried he
might make me do something even worse.
One particular occasion that stands out more than any

other incident occurred when I was about 14 years old. A
classmate and I attended a personal karate training session
with Cyprys out the back of the Yeshivah Centre. After
training, Cyprys asked me to accompany him while he dropped
my friend off at his home because he wanted to show me
something afterwards. This was despite the fact that
I lived across the road from the Yeshivah Centre. After we
dropped off my classmate in East St Kilda, Cyprys drove me
back to the Yeshivah Centre and took me to the male mikveh
or ritual bath. Cyprys sexually abused me inside the
mikveh. During the abuse I became very dizzy and told him
that I needed to get out of the water. I went over to the
drying area and sat down on the floor. Cyprys came over to
me and continued what he had been doing in the bath.
I remember feeling very dizzy to the point where I blacked
out briefly. Soon after, I got up, dressed myself and
walked home.
The mikveh is a sacred place. It is a ritual bathing
house. It is a tradition within the global Chabad
movement, as well as other ultra-orthodox groups, for males
from a young age to immerse themselves on a daily basis in
the mikveh. On Fridays, in honour of the Sabbath and on
other occasions, this ritual is repeated. It is meant to
be a holy and purifying experience. Prior to immersing in
the mikveh, one is expected to have a shower at the
facilities provided. Often people also shower after
immersing in the mikveh. Inside the mikveh itself it is
customary to dip your entire body three times under water,
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i.e. you rise above the water each time and then fully
immerse yourself. In my experience, most people also
generally use the mikveh as a place to relax and socialise.
So often, depending on how busy it is, there are numerous
people inside the mikveh at the same time, just chatting
and relaxing.
Before my experience with Cyprys at the mikveh,
I never had any indication that the mikveh was an unsafe
place - on the contrary, I had always assumed it to be a
very safe place due to its religious significance; never in
my wildest dreams did I imagine that Cyprys would sexually
abuse me in this holy place.
My abuse by Cyprys happened on a number of occasions
over a period of around two years. I felt very confused
about what was happening to me. At the time I did not feel
there was anything I could do about it. Due to my initial
experience of being bullied after disclosing the abuse by
[AVP] I did not even consider sharing the abuse by Cyprys
with anyone. And this time I felt that it was my
fault - after all, why would two separate well-known
community members sexually abuse me? Moreover, this time
around the shame, the guilt, the pain and the suffering was
multiplied. This was further exacerbated by the fact that
the issue of sex was never spoken about around me certainly not by any responsible adults, including my
family unit.
Despite the fact that I never spoke of my abuse by
Cyprys, it seemed to me that people around me were aware
that Cyprys was abusing me. I was very surprised by this
and to this day I am not sure how people came to know.
I suspect that people saw us spending a significant amount
of time together and had simply assumed.
I recall one particular incident that made me realise
that many knew what I thought was my secret. A rumour
started spreading that another schoolmate was abused by
Cyprys. At one stage the victim himself told me what had
happened. I vividly recall the way he conveyed what had
happened; he said that Cyprys had touched his privates,
while pointing to his genitals. I cannot recall my
response.
Soon after my classmate told me this his mother came
to the Yeshivah Centre. I recall precisely where I was
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when I met her. I was standing just outside my classroom

in the college. She seemed to know who I was but I am not
sure how - perhaps her son, who was walking a bit behind
her, identified me. In front of several people she said
that Cyprys had sexually abused her son and that she had
heard that he had also abused me. I recall feeling
immensely embarrassed and just freezing. I may have
murmured something, but I cannot be sure - I may have also
nodded. That part is blurred. I just wanted to get out of
there and that situation.
Q.
Mr Waks, could I just stop you there for a second just
to ask you a question about that evidence and the
conversation you had with your friend?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Was that friend a witness expected to give evidence in
these proceedings [AVR]?
A.
As I understand over the last 24 hours that is the
case.
Q.
At the time you prepared this statement you did not
know, is that right, whether or not he was going to
participate?
A.
I had assumed that he wasn't going to participate.
Q.
Accept from me that [AVR] now intends to participate,
or that's the expectation. Do I understand your evidence
when you give it to this Commission to be that this
conversation, when a friend tells you something that Cyprys
is doing, that was [AVR]?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Thank you. If you could continue from 30, please?
A.
Before the abuse I was a regular child and a
reasonably well-behaved son, brother, student and friend.
At home I was the proud older brother to many siblings.
I helped out a fair bit. I was happy and positive. At
school, while not necessarily a model student, I completed
my work and did not have any particular behavioural issues.
This all changed after the abuse. My world seemed to
have collapsed. I felt ashamed, guilty and angry. I was
taunted and teased at school. I felt alone, and became
alienated from my family, friends and community.
Having grown up in an ultra-Orthodox Jewish
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environment where every aspect of daily life is dictated by

religion, I soon came to loathe religion, its practices and
leaders. I have no doubt this was due directly to the
abuse which occurred within a religious institutional
environment. The abuse marked a dramatic change in my
religious belief system. So, as a child around my bar
mitzvah, at the age of 13, one of the most important
milestones for a Jewish boy, I felt lost in the only world
I knew. It is very hard to explain the depth of this
despair given my background. I was essentially questioning
my very existence.
At home I became a very difficult child. I rebelled
openly against religion. I removed my religious attire at
every opportunity. I regularly committed some of the
gravest sins possible within our religious
lifestyle - I desecrated the Sabbath, I ate non-kosher
food, I didn't pray, I didn't fast, among many other
things. I was also regularly consuming large quantities of
alcohol. This was the start of a long-term substance abuse
problem for me.
In school my behaviour deteriorated, especially during
religious studies, which invariably resulted in constant
confrontations with and alienation from my parents,
teachers and friends. Perhaps it was a coincidence or due
to a subconscious act, the teacher for whom I caused
greatest grief was the father of my first abuser.
Ironically at this point I was placed in a full-time
religious studies program. I think this was meant to
ensure that I would maintain my strict religious beliefs
and practices.
When I was 15 years old I was accepted to the
religious institution for older males in Sydney and
Melbourne respectively, the Yeshivah Gedola. In due
course, due to my irreligious behaviour and clear
disinterest in my studies I was expelled from both
institutions, twice. I was also expelled from home a
number of times.
As a confused and troubled teenager I had to fend for
myself, alienated from my family, friends and community.
I do not recall telling anybody about what Cyprys did to me
until September 1996. This is largely because of the
bullying I experienced after I told my classmate about the
abuse by [AVP]. It was also because I felt that the adults
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and teachers at Yeshivah had not responded to that

bullying.
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Q.
Thank you. Mr Waks, I'll just stop you at that point.

You have given a lot of evidence, and I wanted to ask some
questions about the nature of the community in which you
were living up until that time and prior to the disclosure
of your abuse. We heard your evidence that in your
experience the community was quite insular. Could you tell
us a little bit more about why you describe it as insular?
A.
In my childhood I don't recall really engaging with
anyone outside of our community. It was only when it was
something that was required. But, you know, even as a
child I never had to go to the bank. So that was never I wouldn't have interacted with anyone outside the
community for those things. Even doctors, for example, our
doctors were within the community. So I don't really
recall engaging with any non-Jew. The only ones I can
think of really are probably the people involved in the
Yeshivah Centre institute, the people who used to do the
cleaning and staff members there.
Q.
In terms of hearing your evidence about the community
being almost the centre, or the Yeshivah Centre being the
centre of your family's life, you lived across the road, is
that right, from the Yeshivah Centre?
A.
Yes.
Q.
You went to school at the Yeshivah Centre; is that
right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
You attended the synagogue at the Yeshivah Centre?

Yes.
Q.
And attended other activities, did you, at the
Yeshivah Centre?
A.
Correct, yes.
Q.
So that we can understand a little bit more about the
observances that are required as part of a strict Orthodox
faith what does that involve in terms of daily or weekly
religious practice within the community or what did it
require then, as you can recall?
A.
For me my usual mornings commenced at about 7 or 7.30
going into the Yeshivah Centre. It didn't really matter
whether I was doing religious studies for only two or three
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hours in the mornings and then part of the regular Yeshivah

College framework or later on when I did full-time
religious studies from early morning to late at night, but
it always commenced at about 7 or 7.30 for prayer service.
Usually that would be preceded with going to the mikveh,
the male ritual bath, before the prayer service. So that's
why usually the minyan, which is the prayer service, would
commence at about 7.30. But I would go to the mikveh at
about 7 o'clock, immerse myself, usually go back home and
drop the towel and whatever else I needed to and then go to
the Yeshivah Centre. Again, it was literally less than a
minute to cross over.
I would do prayer service, and then I would have
breakfast. Usually I would go back home, have breakfast,
go back to the Yeshivah Centre and either go back to the
school or the Yeshivah Centre environment and undertake
studies. Depending on the age I was at, for the bulk of
that time, probably the most of that time from the age of
about 12, 13 and onwards I would have finished my studies
at about 9.30 at night, where I was doing religious studies
until then.
Q.
You talked about the minyan, which is the prayer
service. Is that something attended by students or by
members of the Chabad community at large?
A.
Again, it depends on the age group. It's a bit
complicated. At different stages it would have been both
or it would have been either. So at one point I would have
gone - or at some point I would have gone to pray at the
Yeshivah Centre Synagogue, which was open to basically
anyone, but would have been full of Yeshivah Centre
community members. But at other times there would have
been - it would have been part of the school Jewish studies
services that, you know, all students would have needed to
attend. So that generally started at about 8 o'clock, but
I rarely would have gone to that because it was generally,
from memory, targeted towards those who were not
necessarily as - not in the full-time ultra-Orthodox or
religious framework.
Q.
Perhaps I can ask this way. From your observations at
the time did it appear to you that older members of the
community, non-students, would be required as part of their
observance of the Orthodox faith to attend the shule or the
synagogue on a regular basis, say, on a weekly basis or
several times a week?
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A.
I missed the first part.
Q.
A.
Say, members of the community generally?

Absolutely. Members of the community, it was expected
to pray in the minyan. The prayer service minimum is 10
people. That's considered a minyan. So the expectation is
for members of the Chabad/Yeshivah community to participate
in a minyan three times a day: for the morning service, for
the afternoon service and for the evening service.
Q.
Do I understand your evidence to be that at least in
those young years, before you had to do banking or were
working, that your interactions within the community were
with your family, those at the Yeshivah and other members
of the Chabad community?
A.
Yes, absolutely. As I say, living across the road,
I only ever went to the Yeshivah Centre, besides from that,
you know, would be to family friends' homes and the
Yeshivah Gedola was the other one which was a few blocks
away from the Yeshivah Centre. But not just for studies,
also for recreational activities, because the Yeshivah
Centre has basketball courts and all that kind of thing.
It was essentially our front yard.
Q.
So is that a place from your observation you observed
people gathered to play, for instance?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
And to congregate and talk?

Yes, for all sorts of activities, yes.
Q.
You describe the mikveh, which was the bath, both in
the context of its role in faith and also as a place where
some of this abuse occurred. Was a mikveh in close
proximity to the synagogue? Was that on the same premises
as the Yeshivah centre?
A.
Yes, it was on the same premises. It was probably a
one-minute walk from the Yeshivah Synagogue to the mikveh,
something like that.
Q.
Can I ask you some questions about, just briefly
before we go on, your observations of David Cyprys in terms
of him taking you to various premises and to the mikveh.
How did you or he obtain access to the premises or to the
mikveh; do you recall?
A.
When he wasn't around?
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Q.
No, when David Cyprys would take you there and he
abused you there, how did he gain access to the -A.
Yes, from memory he had keys. I vaguely recall that
as we were waiting to go in that he had some keys on him.
But I can't remember the actual act of him inserting the
key to open it, but certainly that's what I assume happened
because I was aware and I certainly understood that he had
keys to all of the facilities on the grounds.
Q.
All right. I will ask you to resume reading your
statement, please, from paragraph 37?
A.
Disclosure of the abuse. In 1994 when I was 18 years
old I moved to Israel and joined the Israel Defence Forces
or the IDF. It was at this time that I formally left the
ultra-Orthodox community within which I had grown up,
although I had not been observant for some years before
this.
In September 1996, while I was still in the IDF, I was
given a one-month break to return to Australia for my older
sister's wedding. It was during this time, while at my
parents' house, that I was listening to the radio and
I first heard of Operation Paradox, which was a campaign
against child sexual abuse in Australia.
I had been thinking about what had happened to me and
had been thinking about doing something about it. The
abuse had left me disillusioned and angry. When I heard
about Operation Paradox on the radio I felt that anger come
to the surface and thought to myself, "I just have to go
and do this." So I went to my father's office in our
family home and disclosed to him, without going into
detail, that I had been sexually abused by [AVP] and
Cyprys. At this time I was 20 years old.
It was obvious to me that my father was very shocked,
but he was also very supportive of me. Most importantly,
he never doubted a word of what I was telling him.
I informed him what I had heard on the radio regarding
Operation Paradox and that I wanted to make a statement to
the police. Almost immediately he called the police and
arranged for them to come to our family home.
In September 1996 Senior Constable Warner of St Kilda
police visited me at my parents' home and I gave a
statement about what happened to me. My father also
provided a statement.
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The police told me that they would interview Cyprys.

By this time [AVP] was living in the United States, where
I understand he still lives. The police later told me that
they had interviewed Cyprys and he had denied everything.
They told me that it was a case of my word against his and
that they were not closing the case but would wait to see
if more evidence came to light. I believed at the time
that more should have been done about it and I still feel
quite upset that it wasn't.
Around the time I went to the police I also spoke with
Rabbi Groner, the director of the Yeshivah Centre, and
discussed what Cyprys had done to me. Rabbi Groner lived
around the corner from us and I took the opportunity to
speak with him one day when we ran into each other in the
street. The conversation was a brief one: it seemed clear
to me that Rabbi Groner was aware of the circumstances so
there was very little I had to say. He said that Yeshivah
was dealing with Cyprys and that I should not do anything
of my own accord. I recalled feeling that he just wanted
that conversation to end.
The main reason that I approached Rabbi Groner at this
time was because I had seen that Cyprys was still in a
security role at the Yeshivah Centre. I often saw Cyprys
at the Yeshivah premises, looking like an official security
guard. I observed that his security business signs "Shomer
Security" were displayed on the Yeshivah premises.
After one month in Australia I was due to return to
Israel to complete my military service. However, I did not
return at the end of my leave but remained in Australia for
around five months, engaging in substance abuse on a daily
basis. At the time I did not have the maturity to
understand why I overstayed my leave in such a significant
manner. Upon reflection I believe it was because I felt
let down by the system. From my perspective I had gone to
the police and to the Yeshivah Centre's leader and
effectively had the doors shut in my face. It was
difficult to accept. I think that this is the reason why
I remained absent without leave in Australia for so long.
I am not
may have been
service or my
I finally did
sure what caused me to return to Israel - it

boredom, the need to complete my military
parents' request that I return. When
return to Israel, I did not go back to the
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IDF. I felt too vulnerable and scared to go back - both to

the IDF itself and to the front-lines where I had
previously served as an infantry soldier in the respected
Golani Brigade. It was during this time that I also met my
future wife.
Ultimately, after around another three months, I was
arrested by the military police and spent around a month in
a military gaol for being absent without leave.
I explained to the military court that a police matter kept
me in Australia and that I could not leave. I did not go
into further details. This contributed to a reduction in
my sentence. The remainder of my service was increasingly
challenging on several levels. I concluded my military
service in 1998 and remained in Israel for another couple
of years working in security.
In March 2000 I returned to Australia with my future
wife to start a life here. My wife and I married in
Melbourne on 21 November 2000.
As my parents live across the road from the Yeshivah
Centre, where they also prayed, often I used to have to
walk alone or with my family, including my young children,
past Yeshivah to get to my parents' house for a Sabbath
meal. Most synagogues in Australia have security officers
standing at the front of the synagogue. Astonishingly to
me, Cyprys was often that security officer protecting the
Yeshivah Centre. I recall many occasions when our eyes met
while I was walking past. He seemed to deliberately smirk
at me. Often he fixed his eyes on me and continued to
smirk until I was forced to look away. To me, his facial
expression said, "We both know what I did, and I got away
with it." It infuriated me. It still does whenever
I think about it.
Occasionally I had to walk inside the Yeshivah
Synagogue - for example, for my brother's bar mitzvah.
Cyprys was the security person standing there who
technically needed to authorise my entry. I was infuriated
that the Yeshivah Centre put him in the position of
deciding who is safe to enter this institution. There were
many children there, and since he was the security guard
I believed he had access to every room and facility on the
premises. I could not believe that the Yeshivah Centre
allowed him to remain in this position for years after
I had discussed with Rabbi Groner in 1996 what Cyprys had
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In the early 2000s I again approached Rabbi Groner

specifically to discuss this matter with him. In his
office I asked him why Cyprys was still employed by the
Yeshivah Centre in this highly sensitive role. I said to
him, "I can see David Cyprys is still standing here doing
security. How can you have this person here providing him
access to children when you know what you know?" Rabbi
Groner said that he was personally dealing with it and he
told me, adamantly, that I should not raise it elsewhere.
I recall that he practically pleaded with me not to pursue
this matter. He said that he was taking care of it, Cyprys
was getting professional help and, according to these
professionals, was making improvements. My final question
to Rabbi Groner was, "Can you assure me that Cyprys is not
currently reoffending or that he will not reoffend in the
future" to which Rabbi Groner responded, "No." At this
point I said I had to go, and I left.
This conversation left me with the clear understanding
that Rabbi Groner did not wish me to go to the secular
authorities about what Cyprys had done to me. I understood
his clear message to be that he was dealing with it
internally, and he would continue to do so.
I observed that Cyprys continued working in a security
role at the Yeshivah Centre until the mid-2000s.
Q.
Mr Waks, can I stop you there. Perhaps if we could
understand a little bit more, was it customary for there to
be a security officer or someone out the front of the
Yeshivah Centre?
A.
Yes, especially the last few years, decade or so. I'm
not sure when the practice came into being, but certainly
it's common practice in Australia and many places around
the world for there to be a security person in front of a
visibly Jewish institution.
Q.
Was that to protect against anti-Semitic attacks or
other violence that might be committed?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
And is that the role you say you saw David Cyprys
performing in this evidence that you have said when you
walked past with young children on your way to your dad's
house for Shabbat?
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A.
That's correct.
Q.
A.
To see him standing at the centre?

That's correct.
Q.
I think you also describe, do you, walking inside the
synagogue for your brother's bar mitzvah?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And was that time the evidence you were giving there,
Cyprys standing at the door of the synagogue, was he?
A.
According to my recollection, that's correct.
Q.
Is that a different place to where you have described
him earlier as when he's standing security for the Yeshivah
Centre or is it the same place?
A.
There are several entry points to the Yeshivah Centre
property. Probably the main one, certainly when I was
growing up and a few years back, was the same entrance as
the entrance to the Yeshivah Synagogue, and in fact that's
where Rabbi Groner's office was at that entrance.
Q.
All right. I will just lead through the next bit of
your statement. But in 1996, when you spoke to the police,
you were given the details of the Victims of Crime
Assistance Tribunal; that's correct?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
But you didn't make any application at that time, and
you did that when you returned in 2011; is that right?
A.
That's correct. Sorry, the VOCAT was when I returned
from Israel in 2001.
Q.
2001, I'm sorry, yes, thank you. You attended that
hearing and you found that quite helpful; is that right?
A.
It was the most empowering experience that I have felt
and - what's the word - cathartic because until then I had
gone to the police and I had gone to Rabbi Groner and I got
nowhere, and to me I had the magistrate acknowledging what
had happened. So that was very powerful for me.
Q.
Do you want to read paragraphs 56 and 57 of your
statement and then I will stop you there?
A.
Sure. On 20 February 2001 I attended a hearing at
VOCAT and was awarded a modest sum together with a number
of counselling sessions with a psychologist. I attended
only a handful of the sessions with the psychologist.
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I felt very uncomfortable seeing a psychologist. My

experience growing up was that if you saw a psychologist
you were seen by the community as being weak-minded and
crazy. I felt it was a stigma attached to seeing a
psychologist, which prevented me from pursuing this form of
healing. To some degree, this is still an ongoing issue
for me.
The VOCAT process made me feel empowered, and I was
relieved that my experiences and predicament were finally
validated. Indeed the ultimate positive point was when the
magistrate acknowledged everything that had happened to me.
Q.
And was that the aspect that was powerful, the
acknowledgment of what had occurred?
A.
Absolutely. That's correct.
Q.
In your experience as a victim is being believed an
essential aspect to a victim or important in the recovery?
A.
In my experience it is probably the most powerful;
that's correct.
Q.
Can I ask you now to read on, please, paragraph 58 and
following going public about your abuse?
A.
Going public about my abuse. In June 2011, while
I was in Israel on a fellowship, my father advised me that
Victoria Police were looking at historical cases of child
sexual abuse at the Yeshivah Centre. He connected me to
the leading investigator at the time, Detective Sergeant
Scott Dwyer. Soon after, while I was still in Israel,
I spoke to Detective Dwyer and provided him with
information.
Subsequently, while still in Israel, I saw an article
online in The Age newspaper dated 22 June 2011 that stated
that Victoria Police were seeking to extradite former
Yeshivah College teacher Rabbi David Kramer for his alleged
crimes at Yeshivah.
While I was already aware that the police were
investigating some of the historical cases at Yeshivah,
I was shocked to read the article in The Age. It was very
overwhelming to see that the issue was now in the public
domain. In the mid-2000s I had contemplated telling my
story in the media, mainly in the hope that other victims
would come forward. However, for various reasons,
I decided not to go public with my story at that time. But
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now that the issue was receiving publicity I felt that the
time was right. I contacted the author of the Kramer
article, Jewel Topsfield, and confidentially shared with
her my story. I asked her to await my return to Australia
as I still needed to speak to close family and friends, and
I wanted more time to consider this.
I sought my parents' feedback about me going public.
They supported me doing so - although they never
anticipated that it would become a major news story, rather
my father has since told me that they thought I intended to
freely share my story with people. I also obtained my
wife's support. Our biggest concern was the possible
ramifications for our three young boys. We did not make
the decision lightly - in fact, my wife gave her support
mainly because she saw how much it meant to me to pursue
this matter.
My main reasons for going public included: at the
time, I was a vice-president of the Executive Council of
Australian Jewry and I felt compelled to take a leadership
role on this issue; I believed that if someone spoke up
publicly many other victims would go to the police; and,
after decades of silence, I no longer wanted to hide behind
the veil of shame and guilt, which is also the main reason
I chose to disclose my name publicly, as opposed to only
sharing my story anonymously.
On 8 July 2011 my story featured in an article on the
front page of The Age.
On 1 September 2011 I was contacted by Detective
Senior Constable Jonathan Russell of the Moorabbin police
station. The matters in relation to Cyprys were being
reinvestigated. He asked me whether there was any further
information I could add to my 17 September 1996 statement
in relation to Cyprys. This resulted in me making a
further statement to the police on 5 September 2011.
Cyprys was later charged and committed to stand trial
in relation to his offences against me and 11 others.
Cyprys was found guilty on five charges of raping another
victim. He subsequently pleaded guilty to 12 other charges
in relation to eight other victims, myself included.
On 20 December 2013 Cyprys was sentenced to eight
years in gaol in relation to these charges.
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I attended all of Cyprys's hearings and sentencing.

As far as I could see there was no-one from the Yeshivah
Centre at any of these hearings. At the presentence
hearing I read a victim impact statement and made an
application to the judge asking permission to identify
myself publicly as one of Cyprys's victims. This
application was granted at the sentencing hearing.
I made a public statement outside the court after
Cyprys was sentenced. I had lived for decades in silence,
shame and guilt. I was very pleased that the judge had
granted my application to be identified because I did not
want to hide behind anything any longer. I wanted to be
able to say publicly, "This is who I am, this is what
happened to me and David Cyprys and the Yeshivah Centre are
responsible for this."
In my victim impact statement I also said that
I thought Victoria Police made a major error in their
response to my allegations back in 1996. I said that I had
never received an explanation as to why a link was not made
between my allegations and similar allegations over which
Cyprys had faced court only a few years earlier, and that
I hoped that Victoria Police would shed some light on the
matter. In February 2014 I wrote to the Chief Commissioner
of Victoria Police about this matter seeking an
explanation.
On 24 February 2014 I received an email from Inspector
Mark Galliott, Deputy Chief of Staff to the Chief
Commissioner, in which he gave an explanation of why
charges were not laid in 1996 when I first went to the
police.
While I accept that it may not have been simple to
introduce the previous case as evidence in my case, there
was no attempt to do so, nor was there any other follow-up
action by police. I still feel that had the police
response in 1996 been more serious Cyprys would have been
exposed many years earlier. I accept that many things were
different in the 1990s, but I do believe that Victoria
Police could have handled my initial complaint better. My
more recent experiences with Victoria Police have been much
more positive.
Q.
Thank you, Mr Waks.
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second. You refer in this part of your evidence to the

earlier criminal record. I will ask to be brought up,
please, tab 1, which is OPP.3017.008.0037_R. No doubt you
will be able to read it, but I will read it. Records
examined by the Commission indicate that on 8 September
1992 David Cyprys was found guilty - there was no
conviction recorded - of an indecent assault in relation to
an offence committed on 24 August 1991. Is that the
criminal record you are referring to in this?
A.
Yes, that's correct.
Q.
When you give your evidence about the police response
did you feel that not enough was done to see whether a
prosecution could have been advanced when you made your
complaint in 1996, only four years later after that?
A.
Yes, indeed. For me it was really they went to
interview David Cyprys, they had obviously received a
statement from myself and my father, and they just regarded
that as one word against the other and, "We can't do
anything about it." Of course I do have some sympathies
for that and understanding of it. As I did mention,
there's an issue that I have with the fact that they should
have referred to that previous matter in 1991, I think it
was, and - yes.
Q.
You refer to going public with your abuse. You talk
about needing to speak to your family about that process.
May I ask you a bit more about that, please. At this stage
you are a lot older than you were when you were younger.
Were your family still strictly observant of the Orthodox
faith?
A.
Absolutely, yes.
Q.
When you gave us earlier your evidence of the insular
nature of the community, in terms of your family,
Zephaniah, your mother and other members, was it your
experience of their day-to-day life when you were around
them that they lived within that insular community mostly
on a day-to-day basis?
A.
I knew that if I was going to raise these matters
publicly that those who would suffer most of the
consequences would probably be my immediate family,
including my parents and siblings as well from a number of
perspectives.
Q.
A.
What were those perspectives?

Potential marriage suitabilities, to have a victim,
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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"damaged goods" sibling; that's an issue. But then not

just a victim but someone who is standing up publicly and
is a victim advocate and causing trouble to that community,
certainly it wouldn't be looked upon very favourably from
members of our community. And the impact would not be felt
just in the Melbourne Yeshivah community; that impact would
be global, because in your introduction you rightly pointed
out it is a global movement and there are close
associations between the various Chabad communities around
the world. So even if my family would go elsewhere that
label of, you know, "Manny Waks" and what he's done would
be stuck with them forever.
Q.
Is your evidence that youre going forward publicly as a
victim of abuse might affect the marriage prospects of your
siblings?
A.
That's correct. It's not uncommon that those issues
are looked at within the ultra-Orthodox community. They
look at the family. When you marry the person often they
don't meet initially. First it's a match-making service of
sorts. Someone thinks that you would be good for this
person. Then the parties meet and then they facilitate a
meeting. Then the prospective husband and wife go out once
both families are happy with the families and other
circumstances, yes.
Q.
Within the community was much emphasis placed, for
instance, in terms of marriage on marrying other members of
the community?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Was that something that was done?
A.
The expectation was that Chabad people married other
Chabad people; absolutely, yes.
Q.
Why was that?
A.
Because it's a certain level of religiosity that
I guess would be accepted. I know to the outside world in
the majority of cases when you see a bearded person with a
hat and jacket it's all one and the same. But it's very,
very different within those communities as well.
Q.
And you are referring there, are you, to the manner in
which members of the community dress routinely, Orthodox
Jews within Chabad?
A.
That's correct, yes; not just within Chabad because
the ultra-Orthodox community - as I say, the general
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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Australian public, non-Jewish, if they see someone with a

hat and jacket that would be ultra-Orthodox and they would
probably be right in assuming that. But within the
different strands of ultra-Orthodox Judaism there are
varying degrees of observance and different kinds of
practices. Hence what I was saying earlier is that the
expectation is for Chabad people to marry other Chabad
people.
Q.
So when you use the term "ultra-Orthodox" you refer to
those who place strict adherence to Orthodox Judaism and
also adopt a manner of dress -A.
That's correct.
Q.
The black hat and various other features of that
standard of dress?
A.
That's correct, yes.
Q.
It is close to 1 o'clock, Your Honour and
Commissioners.
We might take lunch now.
we will take that lunch adjournment now until 2.
will resume at 2. Thank you.
Mr Waks,
So we

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT
<MENAHEM LEIB WAKS, recalled:
[2.04 pm]
Thank you, Ms Gerace.
MS GERACE:
Thank you, Your Honour. Mr Waks, I think we
had got up to paragraph 72, dealing with the time headed in
your statement "Yeshivah's response" that follows your
disclosure of your abuse. Would you mind reading your
statement from paragraph 72, please?
A.
Yeshivah's response. I do not know what, if any,
action Rabbi Groner took after I spoke to him in 1996 and
again in the early 2000s about my abuse by Cyprys.
However, I observed that Cyprys continued to work as a
security guard at the Yeshivah Centre until at least the
mid-2000s.
From the time the article appeared in The Age in July
2011, I have been criticised for publicly disclosing my
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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abuse. From the beginning it seemed clear to me that many

within the Yeshivah community felt I had breached what
I call the Yeshivah/Chabad community's code of silence.
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Just a moment, Mr Waks. Are you
just indicating there is no transcript coming through,
Mr Barker? We are just paying attention to that now.
MS GERACE:
While that's happening, Mr Waks, and we are
having some trouble with the transcript, would you mind
just speaking up a bit and perhaps reading a little bit
more slowly so people can follow. It might assist. Thank
you.
A.
A very small minority of the Jewish community who were
not members of the Yeshivah/Chabad community were also
critical of my public disclosure. I believe this mainly
related to the fear that negative publicity about the
Jewish community would inevitably lead to increased
anti-Semitism. I was keen to engage with Yeshivah in a
positive and constructive manner, both on my own behalf and
for the other victims/survivors who had been approaching me
since I went public with my story.
At one point in 2011 a friend from within the Yeshivah
community asked me whether I would consider talking to the
Yeshivah leadership about Yeshivah's response. I agreed to
do so. I offered to sign a confidentiality agreement
agreeing not to reveal publicly that we had met. However,
soon after my friend approached me I was made aware of
Yeshivah's attitude to meeting me. I was told that the
Yeshivah Centre was not willing to engage with me under any
circumstances.
In December 2012 I met with one of the members of the
Yeshivah Committee of Management, Mr Harry, or Chaim, New,
at his home. I was very close to his family during my
teenage years. At this meeting, I offered to Harry to meet
with him and/or other Yeshivah representatives to resolve
some of the issues that had been developing between
Yeshivah and me. I made it clear that this meeting would
have nothing to do with possible compensation - rather,
I saw it as an opportunity to engage with them on the
broader issue of responding to the allegations of child
sexual abuse at Yeshivah. I offered complete
confidentiality. Harry said that it would be highly
unlikely that the committee would agree to meet with me,
but that he would get back to me if this was indeed an
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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option. I never heard back from him about this. During

our meeting Harry said to me that rather than going to the
media I should have come to him first because he would have
helped resolve the matter.
In terms of an apology, the only sincere and direct

apology that I have ever received from a person with a
formal role at the Yeshivah was from a former teacher of
mine. On 8 July 2011, the day my story featured in The
Age, Rabbi Yitzchok Tzvi Jedwab called me to apologise in a
deeply heartfelt manner. Rabbi Jedwab taught me when I was
around 13 to 14 years old. Often he would throw me out of
the classroom for disrupting the class. It seemed to
happen very regularly; I recall this time as a nightmare.
He called to apologise for responding in such a manner and
for not picking up the signs that I was experiencing
significant pain and suffering. Rabbi Jedwab became
emotional while apologising. I responded by thanking him
for apologising, but as he was not aware of the abuse there
was really no need for him to apologise, but that
I nonetheless greatly appreciated it. Since then this
apology has stuck with me.
8
9
I have never received a direct apology of any kind

from the Yeshivah Centre or College. No one has contacted
me on behalf of the Yeshivah Centre or College to offer me
any form of support or assistance.
However, on 20 August 2012 the Yeshivah Centre sent a
letter to the Yeshivah community. The letter was signed by
Rabbi Zvi Telsner on behalf of the Yeshivah synagogue,
Rabbi Yehoshua Smukler on behalf of Yeshivah College and
Don Wolf on behalf of the Committee of Management. The
letter said that they "unreservedly apologise for any
historical wrongs that may have been committed".
I felt this was a qualified apology. In particular,
the use of the word "may" was a slap in the face. I felt
that the Yeshivah leadership knew that crimes did occur and
that they did not take the right action when they first
learned of allegations of abuse by Kramer and Cyprys.
I also felt that the term "historical wrongs" was a cynical
attempt by the leadership to try to downplay the issue of
child sexual abuse and cover-ups within the Yeshivah
community. I do not think there should have been any
ambiguity about this issue. To me, the focus of the letter
was more to reassure the community that everything was fine
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
than to apologise to me and other victims.
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The letter went on to provide details of the current

child safety practices at the Yeshivah College and Centre
and to state that they were cooperating with police and
providing support to victims and their families. The
Yeshivah Centre has never provided any support to me or to
my family.
Nevertheless, at the time I felt it was a step in the
right direction. I publicly welcomed the "apology" as a
great positive development and said that I would judge the
Yeshivah Centre based on their future words and deeds.
Other victims and community members told me, however, that
they could not welcome such a qualified apology, and
criticised me for doing so. On 24 July 2013, the day that
Kramer was sentenced, a second apology was sent by Rabbi
Smukler to parents of current students at Yeshivah Beth
Rivkah College. It was not addressed to me or to the other
victims of Cyprys and Kramer.
Q.
Can I stop you there, thank you. Mr Waks, some of us
outside the community may not quite understand why you said
earlier in your evidence that when you were making a
decision to come forward with your abuse that some members
of the community were critical and you believe that to be
related to a fear that negative publicity about the
community would inevitably lead to increased anti-Semitism?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Would you be able to give this Commission a little bit
more information about why you say that that's what you
believed caused that concern?
A.
Sure. I was in fact contacted by several concerned
community members, including a number of those who monitor
anti-Semitic websites, and they said to me that the
anti-Semites are having a field day with my testimony and
my publicity around this issue and that if I cared about
the community I would cease doing that straight away.
Q.
So do you say that what was being conveyed to you was
that because you were being critical of one aspect of what
had occurred, that there was concern being expressed back
that that would be used to form the basis of some general
anti-Semitism?
A.
That's correct. That, you know, "Here we go again,
the Jews, this is a perfect example of the Jews being
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
dirty" or whatever.
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Q.
And did you say you have been called by some people;
more than one?
A.
Yes, more than one. Either called or email or
correspondence perhaps. In other cases these comments were
written on blog sites and the like.
Q.
And was the effect of those communications that if you
didn't stop, this would lead to increased anti-Semitism?
A.
Yes.
Q.
told
that
A.
And did I understand you to say that people asked or

you that if you cared you would stop going forward; is
right?
Yes, they did.
Q.
Can I ask a little bit more, please, about the
evidence you have just given about being asked to attend a
meeting with the Yeshivah community. How were these
conversations or offers made that you made to Yeshivah to
meet to discuss? Was it by email or by -A.
Through two separate things in what I just stated.
One was a friend of mine from school, from the Yeshivah
community, he is still a member of that community, he asked
whether or not - many of them, especially the younger age
demographic within the Yeshivah Centre, were very upset, at
least that's what was conveyed to me, they were very upset
in the manner in which the Yeshivah Centre was responding
to this ongoing scandal and they felt that much stronger
and different kind of action by the Yeshivah Centre needs
to be undertaken, and in those conversations one of them
said to me, "Why don't you just meet with them and let's
have a dialogue so they know where you're coming from and
you know where they're coming from." He asked if he was to
arrange such a meeting would I comply, would I participate.
I said "Absolutely, yes." As I noted, I offered to provide
not only confidentiality for the content of the meeting;
I even went to the length of saying that I am happy to keep
the meeting itself confidential, i.e. that if anyone asked
me whether I participated in the meeting with Yeshivah,
that I would give no comment about that.
Q.
Can I ask you now about that offer that you have made
to Yeshivah. Did you do that orally or did you do that by
email or by letter; do you recall?
A.
Certainly I would have spoken to this individual on a
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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number of occasions around that. I do have some email

evidence of him confirming that he had done this, because
I did contact him just before, just to make sure that my
memory was right and that he had indeed followed that up
and he confirmed that to me over the last few months.
Q.
Is there some hesitation in naming who you spoke to?
A.
Potentially, yes, because the ramifications on him
sadly may be negative, yes. I'd rather not.
Q.
Was the person you contacted someone that you believed
was involved in the management of the Yeshivah Centre?
A.
No, he's not involved in the management.
Q.
A.
So was this person an intermediary?

Yes.
Q.
And so do I understand the process to have been you
went to a person who you asked to act as an intermediary
between you and the Yeshivah Centre?
A.
I didn't ask. He approached me for this.
Q.
And going on from there then, you spoke to that
person?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And said, "Would you approach the Yeshivah Centre and
tell them I would like to meet" and whatever else you
conveyed?
A.
Again, he asked me whether I would be willing to
engage in such a process and I said "yes" and then
I offered to do everything confidentially, as what I said
earlier.
Q.
back
them
A.
And do I understand then that this person then came

to you at some other stage and said, "I have met with
and they don't want to meet"?
That's correct. "They are not interested."
Q.
The emails you referred to, are they between you and
this intermediary?
A.
Yes, I have an email that I can locate.
Q.
But the emails are not between you and Yeshivah
directly?
A.
No, they are not.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6028
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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Q.
So in this offer itself, may I just understand, at no

time did you speak yourself directly, you, to someone in
Yeshivah management?
A.
I did. I did. That was in relation to a second case
with Harry New and -Q.
I understand.
A.
The intention of meeting with him had nothing to do
directly with me dealing with the management. I had been
close friends with them and it was more a matter of
relating to his wife, Sheini New, who is from the Jewish
Taskforce Against Family Violence, and the view that I held
and the view that I made public about the fact that I was
very disappointed with a lot of their actions, the Jewish
Taskforce -Q.
A.
Leave those for now.

Sure.
We will come back to that later.
Q.
Just so we have the sequence, in about 2011 a friend
approaches you and says, "Would you consider meeting with
the Yeshivah management to discuss the response because a
lot of us are unhappy," or something like that, "about
their response." To that friend you indicate yes, you
would do that; is that right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Following on from that agreement, you then had a
number of conversations with this person who you believe
acted as an intermediary and went between yourself and the
Yeshivah management?
A.
Not officially on their behalf. It was simply -Q.
A.
No, but conveying information in a sense?

Yes.
Q.
Personal email in a sense; you told something to them,
they appeared to come back to you and tell you a response
and backwards and forwards?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Following that, in December 2012 there's a meeting
between yourself and Harry New or Sheini New, is that
right?
A.
Yes.
Q.
That meeting came about, you say, because of concerns
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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you had about the response to Jewish taskforce?

A.
It was more as a result of Chaim and Sheini New being
upset at what I was saying about Sheini New in her capacity
as the vice-chair and spokesperson of the Jewish Taskforce
Against Family Violence.
Q.
And during that meeting you had a discussion with
Mr New, did you, about trying to - you told him directly
that you wanted to meet with the Yeshivah management?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
And he said that it was unlikely that they would do
that?
A.
Yes, but he would raise it with them nonetheless.
Q.
Did he ever come back to you or did you speak to Harry
New after this conversation about that meeting?
A.
Never heard from him again. I did note, I should add,
that in the minutes that were supplied by the Yeshivah
Centre there was no reference to that request at all.
Q.
Do you raise that to say you don't know whether in
fact he ever conveyed that back to the committee?
A.
Yes.
Q.
The board, essentially?
A.
That's correct. I'm not sure whether he did
ultimately or whether, alternatively, perhaps it was
omitted from those minutes.
Q.
All right. We will follow that up. Could I ask,
please, for document which is tab 93 of what will be the
proposed tender bundle YSV.0001.001.0343, please. Are you
able to see that, Mr Waks?
A.
Yes.
Q.
This document I just want to clarify. Is this letter
the letter you refer to in paragraph 80 of your statement,
being a letter from the Yeshivah Centre to the Yeshivah
community signed by Rabbis Telsner, Smukler and Don Wolf?
A.
It looks like that, yes, it is.
Q.
Could someone scroll down so we could see the top of
that document, please, and see the letterhead?
A.
I have it now. Yes, it is.
Q.
Thank you.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
That's the top of the document.
C6030
Just in
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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your statement you say that the letter was sent to the
Yeshivah community. How did you come to be aware of this
letter? Did you receive it? Was it directed to you or -A.
No, I didn't receive it. As I understand it, the
Yeshivah community would mean anyone associated with the
Yeshivah community. It could be parents of school
children, it could be just members of the synagogue, people
involved with Chabad Youth.
Q.
So when you say it was published, you mean that you
found out about it from someone in the community but it
wasn't sent to you; is that right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
So am I correct in understanding you yourself
personally have no direct knowledge about who it was sent
to or how widely it was distributed; is that right?
A.
That's right. From memory I was informed, I don't
remember from who, that it was sent to the Yeshivah
community. But I certainly didn't receive it.
Q.
In this letter the Yeshivah Centre made absolutely
clear that it condemns sexual abuse, did it not?
A.
Yes, it does.
Q.
I think that's one of the things you say was a
positive in the response at the Yeshivah Centre?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
At this stage on 20 August 2012, were you running a
blog at that time or was Tzedek set up then or not?
A.
Tzedek was established at the end of 2012, literally
I think 31 December was the official first date. So it
really only came into being in 2013. But before that I you may be referring to my Facebook page which I used as a
type of blog, yes.
Q.
And so when you talk about publicly welcoming this
step from the Yeshivah Centre, was that done through your
Facebook page?
A.
Probably, and also sending it out to my media
contacts, welcoming it, because they had been in touch with
me after that. So, yes.
Q.
In terms of the correspondence, your concern with this
document was the reserved nature of the apology?
A.
That's correct.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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Q.
The use of the word "may"?

A.
Yes. Not only, because out of the three pages that
I can see here, it's just one page or less of it is about
the actual abuse and everything else I felt was about
promoting how great Yeshivah is now.
Q.
At this time in 20 August 2012 had you had any

information about what the Yeshivah Centre may or may not
have known at any time?
A.
To me, before this apology I knew for certain that the
Yeshivah Centre leadership knew from as early as 1984 in
relation to allegations about Cyprys and that was in
relation to two alleged victims at the time -Q.
Without naming them, please?
A.
That's right, two alleged victims at the time, but
they are now confirmed victims because they have gone
through the process. So I was aware that the Yeshivah
Centre knew from that early on.
Q.
May I ask you, please, in relation to that
information, being careful not to name the victims, please,
what was the source of that information you said you came
to know that they had known since 1984?
A.
One of the victims who informed Mr Ronny Tatarka, who
was the head of Chabad Youth at the time, which means
Chabad Youth, they ran camps, they did the weekly youth
movements on Yeshivah Centre property. So one of those
victims I knew well, but I only knew that he was a victim
in the last couple of years since I went public after that,
and he informed me that he told that to Mr Ronny Tatarka.
At the same time or around that time, another victim, who
had been abused together at the same time with this victim,
he told me that his father went with the first victim to
Ronny Tatarka. So there were two people involved in that
conversation, the first victim and then the second victim's
father, and the second victim himself confirmed that to me
and so did the first victim, that that conversation took
place, and then it was later confirmed to me in about 2012.
I was called - I was invited to a meeting by Rabbi Laibel
Wolf, who is a member of the Yeshivah community more
broadly, he's a member of the Chabad community, but he has
a synagogue in the centre, a spiritual centre called Spirit
Grow in the Caulfield area, Jewish community area in
Melbourne, and he asked me whether I could attend a meeting
with himself and with Ronny Tatarka. I obliged. I said,
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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"Absolutely, no problem," and I went there to the meeting

at Rabbi Wolf's house. It was there that Ronny Tatarka
himself acknowledged to me that that's what happened, that
he met with those two individuals, the victim and the
second victim's father, and from his perspective he shared
that information with Rabbi Groner and Rabbi Groner said to
him, this is what he told me, that he was dealing with it
and he's taking care of it. Of course, this didn't prevent
Cyprys continuing on for quite a few years afterwards being
involved in Chabad Youth operations.
Q.
That meeting with Rabbi Wolf and Mr Tatarka took place
at Mr Tatarka's home?
A.
At Rabbi Wolf's home.
Q.
A.
And that was in about 2012?

Yes.
Q.
And before that meeting two separate people had told
you that they had made complaints in 1984 about Cyprys's
behaviour; is that right?
A.
Not just about his behaviour. The fact that he had
sexually abused them inside the mikveh.
Q.
And that they had conveyed that information to Ron
Tatarka?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And in respect of one of the victims that he told you
that his father had spoken to Ron Tatarka?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
And then following those disclosures you went to a
meeting with Rabbi Wolf and Ron Tatarka and you say at that
meeting that Ron Tatarka acknowledged that the information
you had received was correct?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Was there any further discussion with Mr Tatarka at
this time about - was there any other conversation that you
had with Mr Tatarka that might be important to know about
whether - did you ask him whether he'd followed up? Did
you ask him what had Rabbi Groner done? Was there anything
further he told you at this meeting that you can recall?
A.
I just want to be as accurate as I can, so I'm just
visualising everything.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6033
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Q.
Take your time.

A.
All I really remember was that he was - I mean, he was
visibly upset by what had transpired, but I do recall that
what he said was from his perspective he felt that he had
shared everything with Rabbi Groner and it was clear to me
that he felt that it was really in Rabbi Groner's hands and
he would have been youngish back then, I'm not sure how old
he would have been, and therefore it's not something that
he could go over, go across what Rabbi Groner's actions may
have been. It was simply, "I received this information and
I did all I could in that I've conveyed that information to
Rabbi Groner." That's all I really remember.
Q.
Was that disclosure by Ron Tatarka to you of
significance in shaping your response to the Yeshivah
Centre?
A.
Well, I think probably it was more shaped at the
earlier disclosures by the victim and by the victim's
father because that's when I became a lot angrier because
I realised very clearly that they had had that opportunity
and then some time later I had heard about what we heard
earlier today, the testimony of the first victim, where
Yeshivah Centre was informed in the mid-1980s and then by
the time it came to me, by that time the Yeshivah Centre
should have taken action so that I may not have been
abused. So certainly the level of anger towards Yeshivah
after hearing all that information was significantly
enhanced.
Q.
Because in fact if the evidence bears out those
disclosures, that was three years before David Cyprys
started to abuse you?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
May I ask you to have a look, please, at the document
24 July 2013, which is I think the second letter that you
refer to, YSV.0001.001.0353, please. I'm talking about the
evidence you have given which is set out in your statement,
paragraph 83, Mr Waks?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Just before I move to that, I think you just say that
you publicly welcomed the apology and I think you said that
you would "judge Yeshivah based on their future words and
deeds". Does that reflect something you published you
believe on your Facebook, is that right, or some public
announcement you made about it?
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6034
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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Yes, that's right.

Ms Gerace, I'm sorry to interrupt
both you and Mr Waks, but I'm just being given an
indication that we will need to take a short adjournment
just to fix this running transcript problem.
MS GERACE:

So we will take a short adjournment
now. I hope it's not more than five or 10 minutes.
SHORT ADJOURNMENT
MS GERACE:
Your Honour, Commissioners, before we proceed
with Mr Waks, may I indicate that Mr Danos of counsel, who
appears for Rabbis Mordechai Gutnick, Yaakov Glasman and
Rabbi Kluwgant -MR DANOS:
If the Commission pleases, I appear on behalf
of the three rabbis and the Orthodox Council of Victoria.
Thank you.
MR DANOS:
I would also seek leave. The material I have
looked at seems to indicate that they have a very limited
role and I would seek permission to be able to come and go
from time to time, if the Commission would grant leave.
MR DANOS:
Yes.
Thank you, Mr Danos.
Thank you.
MS GERACE:
Mr Waks, just before we broke to fix up the
technology I was going to ask you some questions about the
document at tab 124, YSV.001.001.0353. Is that the
document you are referring to in paragraph 83 of your
statement as a letter sent out following the sentencing of
Rabbi David Kramer?
A.
Yes, it is.
Q.
Now, how did you come to have a copy of this email?
A.
Again through the grapevines. I didn't receive it
directly from Yeshivah, no.
Q.
You make a statement that, "It was not addressed to me
or to other victims of Cyprys and Kramer." May I first ask
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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you in relation to it not being addressed to other victims

of Rabbi Kramer, do I understand your evidence to be that
you believe this email or this letter was not sent to the
victims of Rabbi Kramer?
A.
To the best of my knowledge, that's correct.
Q.
What is the source of that information? Can you tell
me why you believe that?
A.
Yes, because I'm in contact with a number of the
victims and those who I'm in contact with have said to me
that they haven't received it.
Q.
All right. And do you believe that this was only sent
to parents of the school at the time?
A.
Well, it's addressed to the parents. So that's
certainly what I would assume, yes, as opposed to the first
one was addressed to community members, from memory.
Q.
All right. Just so we can be clear about the extent
of your evidence, you were told by people who had
identified themselves to you as being victims of Kramer
that they did not receive this email?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
You were a victim of Cyprys and you did not receive
this email?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
And beyond that you take from the face of the document
that it was only sent to the current parents?
A.
(Witness nods).
Q.
And outside of that you don't really know how widely
it was distributed by the school; is that right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Thank you. Can I take you back now to your statement,
please, and would you read the paragraphs of your statement
commencing at 84.
A.
Impact on my life. The abuse I experienced had an
immense impact on my life. I have already explained the
effect that the abuse had on me as a young
teenager - I changed from a happy, positive, reasonably
well behaved boy to an angry, rebellious teenager with a
substance abuse problem. I rejected the religion in which
I had been raised, lost all focus on my studies and became
alienated from my family and community.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6036
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Soon after turning 18, desperate to leave the place

and community of my abuse, abuser and enablers, I travelled
to Israel to serve in the IDF. This was a superficial
escape, as the pain and anger - in relation to both the
abuse and cover-ups - was enduring. I regularly thought
about my experience of abuse; this included having
flashbacks and feeling a sense of helplessness and despair.
Later in my time with the IDF, I saw IDF psychologists on a
number of occasions. The focus of these sessions was about
helping me to cope with my military service, which became
increasingly challenging for me. I cannot recall if
I discussed with these psychologists the abuse and my
disclosure of it in 1996.
In 1996 when I first went to the police and to Rabbi
Groner, I was left feeling despondent and disillusioned
that no charges were laid and no action was taken against
Cyprys. I lost faith in the police, the judicial system,
the religion I was brought up in and its leaders - my own
powerlessness was reinforced. From my perspective I had
done everything that I could do to obtain justice for
Cyprys's crimes and to protect our community from
the possibility of Cyprys committing future crimes.
However, my efforts had been to no avail. This was not
easy to accept for a 20-year-old who was trying to do the
right thing. This resulted in a period of heavy substance
abuse while absent without leave from the IDF.
When I returned to Australia in 2000, I worked as an
integration aide at Jewish schools for two and a half years
while I completed my year 12 equivalent studies or the
Victorian Certificate of Education. I then did a degree in
international relations at La Trobe University, Melbourne,
which I completed in 2005. During this time I worked with
a federal member of parliament and also with the Lowy
Institute for International Policy in Sydney. In 2006
I was employed as head of the B'nai B'rith Anti-Defamation
Commission, a job I did for around two years. In 2009
I started working in Canberra as an assistant director at
the Office of Transport Security and later transferred to
Melbourne. The transfer was at my request, made after
I had publicly disclosed my abuse and at a time when my
family and I needed the support of our family and friends
in Melbourne. In order to be transferred to Melbourne
I had to accept a more junior position with lower
remuneration.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6037
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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Although I had turned away from my ultra-Orthodox

upbringing, I became active within the broader Jewish
community. Among other roles, I am a past president of the
Canberra Jewish community, former vice-president of the
Executive Council of Australian Jewry and a former governor
of the New South Wales Jewish Communal Appeal Board of
Governors. In 2011 I was convenor of the Australian
Association of Jewish Studies conference. I also founded
the Capital Jewish Forum and was a founding director of the
Online Hate Prevention Institute.
In July 2011 I decided to go public about my abuse.
I hoped that by telling my story other victims of child
sexual abuse would feel empowered and encouraged to come
forward to either speak with the police or to seek any help
that they may need. To me, speaking publicly was about
justice and closure, and as a leader within the Jewish
community at the time I also wanted to take a leadership
role in this area because no-one else had.
I know that there are many within the Chabad/Yeshivah
community and some within the broader Jewish community who
wish that I would be quiet about what happened to me and
also in relation to my advocacy and support of others.
However, I feel that as a community we need to learn from
the past in order to address the future. I believe that
this is something that is owed both to victims and
survivors and to the broader community.
Going public about the abuse was cathartic and very
empowering for me, but the effects of the abuse are still
with me. I still have vivid and distressing memories of
the abuse, including in dreams. I feel less ashamed now
that it is no longer a secret, but I still feel guilty,
including about the effect of my disclosure on my family.
I feel deep anger towards Yeshivah and its leadership for
leaving Cyprys in a position where he was able to continue
abusing boys. I still find it very hard to deal with the
emotional and psychological impact of the abuse on me,
although I am starting to understand it better. At times
I have relied heavily on alcohol and other methods of
numbing the emotional pain.
Since early 2013 I have been debriefing regularly,
about once a month, with a retired psychiatrist who is a
mentor to me. I am finding that helpful.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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I have had the support of both of my parents, my wife

and some other members of my immediate family. My abuse
and my decision to talk about it publicly has also had an
impact on them, and in many ways it has torn my family
apart. Many members of the ultra-Orthodox community, in
particular the Yeshivah community, have not been supportive
of either myself or my family and this has been very
difficult for my family.
The effect of my disclosure on my family, in
particular my parents, has been very painful for me to see.
While I have left the Orthodox community, my parents remain
within it. I understand from them that, since I went
public, they have been shunned by the Yeshivah community
around which they based their life. They have lost most of
their friends and during 2011 decided to sell the family
home opposite the Yeshivah Centre and move to Israel. They
are still in the process of relocating.
My parents told me about a very troubling incident in
the Yeshivah Synagogue in July 2011. It occurred soon
after I went public about my abuse and Yeshivah's lack of
response. My parents told me that Rabbi Telsner gave a
public sermon on the Sabbath at the Yeshivah Synagogue
during which he asked, "Who gave you permission to talk to
anyone? Which rabbi gave you permission?" Rabbi Telsner
explained the power of a rabbi to excommunicate a person
who had disobeyed a rabbi and said that the worst sin was
besmirching the name of the late Rabbi Groner. My father
told me he felt threatened and was outraged by these words.
My parents told me that they and some of my mother's
friends walked out of the synagogue during this sermon.
My father has also told me that after I went public
and after he publicly supported me he was no longer
receiving the same honours he used to receive in synagogue.
He said he was not being called to the Torah in synagogue
on certain occasions, even in the week of his birthday when
it is customary to receive this honour. He has also told
me that he was aggressively confronted and pushed by
another community member inside the synagogue on two
separate occasions, in May and in August 2013. My father
reported both these incidents to the police.
My father told me that he initially continued to
attend synagogue at Yeshivah several times a week, as he
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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had done before I went public, then he began to go only on

the Sabbath, and eventually he stopped going to synagogue
at Yeshivah altogether. He is still devout and it is
terrible for me to see him excluded in this way.
Q.
Mr Waks, I'll just stop you there. When you say your
father is still devout, it has been your experience that he
has been devout through the whole time you have known him
in terms of his practice of the Orthodox faith?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Could I ask you a little bit more about the role of,
say, the rabbi within the Orthodox faith. What is your
perception or experience of the role that the rabbi might,
say, have in the community if you are able to comment?
A.
Yes. It's all encompassing. The role - there are
varying degrees, depending - often it's a personal
decision, but the standard I would say within the Chabad
community, Yeshivah community, would be to appoint your
rabbi. So it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be
Rabbi Telsner in the case of Yeshivah, because he is the
rabbi of the Yeshivah Centre, but individuals within that
community can appoint their personal rabbi to go to for
advice and decisions, et cetera.
Again, I don't know if this is the extreme
interpretation, but the reality is it's very common within
the Yeshivah/Chabad movement is that any decision would
typically be run past the rabbi and they would ultimately
provide guidance and in some cases they would actually make
the decision for the individual, whether it's, "Should I go
back to study? Should I apply for this job? Should I do
something else? I have marital issues," those types of
things. So almost everything would be consulted with the
rabbi.
Q.
So is that something you have witnessed yourself
living in the community, this process of consulting with
the rabbi on what's the rabbi's opinion about various
aspects of your life?
A.
Absolutely. Not only that, I experienced it first
hand when I was younger, I used to have kind of a spiritual
mentor where I would run some of these things past them as
well. Obviously as a child it's very different from an
adult because the requests and the decisions that you are
looking for are very different.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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Q.
Are you able to assist us to understand if someone had

a concern about whether something was permitted under the
Jewish faith, if there was some area or some activity they
wanted to undertake and wanted to understand whether that
was legally permitted within the Jewish faith, who would
they turn to to get that opinion from?
A.
Usually they would go to their personal rabbi. Some
of the cases they may go to the senior rabbi in the
community. In other cases they may go to another - to a
peak body to get that advice, such as the Organisation of
Rabbis of Australasia, or one of the leadership groups, the
Rabbinical Council of Victoria. So they may go to any one
of those rabbis, in some cases to more than one to get a
second opinion. I don't want to sound cynical, but in some
cases I do know where people would go to a certain rabbi
rather than their own because they know they will get the
answer that they prefer to hear.
Q.
In terms of, say, in this example Rabbi Telsner, how
frequently did he give public sermons in the synagogue?
Was it just on the Sabbath? Was it a daily occurrence?
A.
I haven't been a part of that community for a long
time, but as I understand it he gives a weekly sermon at
least and then aside from that there may be occasional
circumstances in which he will also provide a sermon.
Q.
I understand, and am I correct in my impression, that
in 2011 you were no longer attending the Yeshivah Synagogue
and couldn't tell us how many people would be attending a
sermon, say, on the Sabbath?
A.
I stopped going to the Yeshivah Synagogue for many
years. I did only on occasion go for a family function and
the like. So, yes, I wouldn't be aware of that.
Q.
When you talk about the honours that your father says
he no longer receives, we understand in the Commission
that's referred to as an aliyah, is that right?
A.
That's correct, an aliyah. I'm trying to think if
there are any other honours that one may receive. There
may be other honours, but I'm specifically referring to
being called up to the Torah, which is called an aliyah.
Q.
Are you called up in a sermon, are you, or in a
synagogue meeting?
A.
No, it's unrelated to the sermon. It's when the Bible
is brought out into the middle of the synagogue and the
person who reads from the Torah, the Bible, comes and reads
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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it out and that's when they - it's the weekly portion, it

happens on other occasions as well, and then that weekly
portion is segmented into about seven or so, if my memory
serves right, aliyah, so for each part, each section,
someone else is called up to the Torah for that honour.
Q.
You talk about the effect of the disclosure, both what
you have told us your father says has occurred to him, but
also if I can ask you some further questions about what has
happened to you?
A.
Sure.
Q.
Could you tell us a little bit more about what you say
is the criticism you have received since you have chosen to
speak up publicly or to speak on the issue of abuse within
the Yeshivah community?
A.
Initially when I went public with my story there was
generally overwhelming support and I would say that that's
true of this day now as well. Generally speaking, the
Jewish community and the broader community, both in
Australia and globally, has been very positive. However,
as I have alluded to earlier, certainly I have been the
source of significant criticism, nasty attacks targeted at
my credibility, my family, any history, things that are
completely unrelated to my experience of being sexually
abused, completely unrelated to the cover-ups that
happened, and to the ongoing intimidation by some within
the Yeshivah leadership in particular.
Q.
When you talk about the Yeshivah leadership, who are
you referring to or who are you speaking about there when
you say there's been some targeted action?
A.
So some within the leadership, I'm referring to people
like Rabbi Telsner who has created a climate of anti-Waks
family, certainly in particular either myself or my father.
But, you know, what Rabbi Telsner has been saying and doing
behind the scenes from the very beginning has really
facilitated a lot of the intimidation, and I'm basing a lot
of my testimony here not only on what my father has said to
me, but also many other community members with whom I'm in
contact have told me the same thing.
Others are not just Rabbi Telsner, people - I was
informed from a number of sources about a range of things.
Just as an example, someone informed me that the general
manager of Yeshivah, Nechama Bendet, called me a moser,
which is someone who does mesirah, which is collaborating
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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with the police. In Sydney, Rebbetzin Feldman, not only

did she write a vile email to me personally which
I understand may be tendered at some stage, but she
confronted my brother-in-law who lives in Sydney and said
to him in front of other people, "Your family's a moser."
So, that's all part of the broader ongoing intimidation and
harassment that me and my family have endured, again not
just from the leadership, but the leadership's actions or
inactions in other cases have certainly facilitated a lot
of these attacks.
Q.
Just breaking that down, in terms of Rabbi Telsner, as
part of that, what was reported to you by your father,
being the sermon that was given, and that occurred in July
2011, shortly after, if the chronology is right, your
article being published in the Age; is that right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Otherwise in terms of Rabbi Telsner, may I just
understand this. Has he ever said anything directly to
you?
A.
Rabbi Telsner?
Q.
A.
Yes?
No.
Q.
Do I understand that people have reported to you
things that Rabbi Telsner has said about you?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Is that the same in terms of Nechama Bendet or
Ms Bendet?
A.
That's correct. Bendet, that's true. David Werdiger
is another official within the Yeshivah community, his
brother is on the Yeshivah board, called me vindictive in
an email, that basically my aim here is to bring Yeshivah
down to its knees, which I categorically denied, as I think
I mentioned here. For me this is about justice and
accountability and, as we have seen, there has been zero
accountability at the Yeshivah Centre in any way, shape or
form. So for me I would much rather not be standing here
today giving this evidence, but would much rather this
matter had been resolved prior to this.
Q.
To that end did you at some stage in September 2014
send an email to various people, being a grassroots
petition entitled "Jews for justice for Yeshivah's
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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victims", being a petition, as I believe it, to have Rabbi

Glick and Don Wolf apologise to victims?
A.
I circulated that, but it was not my petition. I had
no involvement except for one of the people who initiated
that kindly approached me to see whether I would object to
it. So purely from a sensitive perspective, a sensitivity
perspective, that's all. But I certainly do support that
and I did feel that those actions should happen, yes.
Q.
And whilst this predates this period, 2014, by this
time Tzedek was established; we haven't got to that in the
evidence -A.
That's correct.
Q.
But we will deal with just the criticisms because you
are talking about that. Can I have a document brought up,
please. It does not have a tab number yet, as I understand
it. We will just get that brought up now, Mr Waks. There
is no opposition to its tender, so I thank Mr Barker.
Could we scroll down, please, to the second page. That's
difficult to read, but I might read it, if I can. This is
your email to - this is a copy to undisclosed recipients,
22 September. I will read that because it is very short.
"Hi, this email is to advise of a grassroots petition which
has been launched today by Jews for justice for Yeshivah's
victims." Then it provides a Facebook address. "This is
not a Tzedek petition." So it's not your petition; is that
right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
"Tzedek was consulted regarding the impact such a
petition would have on the victims. It is our view that it
would be warmly welcomed by most." Then you provided a
link to the petition; is that right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
And a copy of an Age article, "Petition calls for
senior Yeshivah leaders to resign"?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
A.
Did you have any involvement in The Age article?

No, I did not.
Q.
And then you have forwarded it with your exhortation,
"Please consider signing the petition and sharing it
widely"?
A.
Let me just backtrack a moment about The Age article.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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I'm not 100 per cent certain. I may have been asked about
it. I may have been quoted in it. But I certainly - this
whole petition and promoting it and all that, the extent of
it was simply sending out an email and posting it on
Facebook.
Q.
A.
And asking people to consider signing it?

That's right.
Q.
A.
And sharing it?

Yes.
Q.
Was one of the people you sent that email to your
father?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
So if we can scroll up a little bit, please. You
forwarded this to your father and did he then, do you
believe, send it on to other people; is that right?
A.
I found out later that he did, yes.
Q.
A.
Did you find that out from him?

I saw it when I saw this email, basically.
Q.
If we can go back up, please, so we can see the text
of the email. That would appear to be an email from
Rebbetzin Feldman to Waks Wigs. Do you recognise that
address?
A.
That's right. It's my mother. My parents own that
store.
Q.
A.
Addressed to "Hi Manny"; is that right?

That's right.
Q.
A.
And then that was signed "Rebzn Pnina Feldman"?

That's right.
Q.
Did you know at this time Rebbetzin Pnina Feldman?
A.
Yes, I probably had met her a couple of times because
I did live in Sydney for some time and I was involved,
I went to Yeshiva Gedola there. So I certainly know the
Feldman family.
Q.
And is this the level of - this is some of the
criticism you are referring to having received from -A.
Absolutely, yes. That's correct. I must say the only
difference between this type of correspondence and some of
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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the other material that I have seen is that a lot of the

other stuff comes on blogs under anonymous pseudonyms.
Q.
I don't know whether people can see that, but in any
event we will talk about what happened, about what you did
with this email. But perhaps, Mr Waks, you would read
that, please.
A.
Hi Manny, why do you keep highlighting
Yeshivah?! Before the paedophile issues
you went running to The Age re BER issues.
[I don't know what the BER issues is.]
There's always something with you and
Yeshivah. Get over it already - whatever
it is that makes you think that attacking
Yeshivah justifies your not being frum
[which means being religious]. There is
something very ugly and personal about your
anti-Yeshivah campaign. Just because a
security guard molested you don't blame
Yeshivah! A principal in Moriah College
[who wasn't Jewish] once molested nearly
half the girls in the school! None of whom
have ever blamed the school! Get over it!
You need counselling! I haven't met a
person yet with one nice word to say about
you. Most people consider you a lowlife:
not because of any molestation which wasn't
your fault, but because of your malicious
blame game which is unjust, unwarranted,
undeserved and wicked. The person you hurt
most by that is yourself and your own
psyche and spiritual and emotional
wellbeing. I realise you may go on hate
campaign against me now, but like yourself,
I have no fear in saying it as it is when
I feel passionate about something.
Erev Yom Kippur [which means the eve of Yom
Kippur, which is when she sent it. Yom
Kippur is the most solemn day in the Jewish
calendar.] Get the paedophiles. That's
fine. But get the hate out of your heart
or at least try to control it. That hate
is very bad for you personally as it
doesn't allow you peace of mind or any form
of internal harmony or happiness.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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Words from the heart.

A Gmar Tov to you and yours.
of saying good wishes.]
[It's a way
Rebzn Pnina Feldman.

Q.
A.
How did you feel receiving this email?

How did I see it?
Q.
Yes?
A.
It shocked me, the blatant, offensive words that she
could - someone in her position could send. This isn't
just some community member. She's the most senior Chabad
Rebbetzin, Chabad woman, in New South Wales and the wife of
the most senior Chabad Rabbi in New South Wales. For her
to put that in writing, I was shocked because I just didn't
understand why she would want that evidence traced back to
her, so from that perspective I was surprised, but, you
know, it obviously deeply hurt and offended, but I also
welcomed it because for me I'm trying to explain to people
the type of intimidation that I'm facing and here I've got
a perfect example of it, and it's not just some, you know,
Mr XYZ on whatever blog. This is actually - it's got a
name and in an email to me. So I did also welcome it.
Q.
As a result of receiving this email, did you publish
this email?
A.
Yes, I did. I can't remember exactly where or what,
but I definitely did make it public.
Q.
And did you then participate in an interview with some
journalist at some stage in relation to this or not?
A.
Probably. It wouldn't surprise me.
Q.
Following on from this email, did you at any stage
receive an apology from Rebbetzin Feldman?
A.
I have never received an apology from Rebbetzin
Feldman, no.
Q.
You personally?
A.
Never. I understand that she issued a public apology,
but I haven't received anything from her.
Q.
A.
And who told you that she had issued a public apology?
I may have been contacted by a journalist who advised
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me that that was forthcoming and that warranted my

response.
Q.
I tender that document, which is two emails.
22.4
EXHIBIT #22.4 TWO EMAILS

MS GERACE:
At the time you received this email, had you
made any criticism or called to account or said anything
about Sydney or the Feldmans? Had you made some criticism
of Rabbi Feldman or Rebbetzin Feldman?
A.
At the time of this email?
Q.
Yes?
A.
Yes, I did. I did, yes. When allegations surfaced
about the Yeshiva Centre in Sydney, I was approached - if
I'm not mistaken I was approached by a Rabbi Eli Feldman,
who is the son of Rebbetzin Feldman, and they wanted to do
the right thing initially, and that's what I felt, and when
the allegations became public about things that had
happened in Sydney, I then asked him to - I suggested to
him that it may be appropriate to issue a statement, or he
may have been willing to do so anyway, and he asked me to
review a statement that he sent. He sent it to me and it
was a one-paragraph pathetic statement, so I responded
accordingly and basically gave him my version of the
statement that I thought they should be making. To his
credit, they published basically the entire statement. So
that was from my perspective a positive move in the right
direction.
Some time after that it became very clear to me, and
I cannot remember the exact circumstances, but it became
very clear to me and I felt that the Yeshiva Sydney was
doing everything they could to cover things up and not
cooperate as much as they could. Again, I don't know that
I necessarily can give concrete evidence as to what caused
it, but that's how I felt and at some stage I noted
publicly as part of a broader statement that I will not
engage any further with Rabbi Feldman and the Yeshiva
Centre community in Sydney about this.
Q.
A.
So did that predate this email?

Yes, it did.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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Q.
So in terms of what you have just said there, you

don't have any direct evidence but that was an impression?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
All right. We will examine the evidence in this
inquiry.
A.
I can give something - there was one piece of evidence
that did come to me from a journalist who had interviewed
Rabbi Eli Feldman and interviewed me and then made it very
clear to me that Eli was trying to undermine my credibility
in any way possible. So that's probably to the extent it
goes.
Q.
Did you feel generally in terms of what you witnessed
on blogs and other things in the community that people were
trying to undermine your credibility at the time?
A.
Did I feel that? Absolutely, yes.
Q.
Whilst we are not inquiring into the blogs, would you
share, please, some of the comments that were made on blogs
that you believed sought to undermine your credibility?
A.
That I'm a media whore. That I'm in it for the money.
That my family and myself are all damaged. Those types of
things.
Q.
Is that what you were referring to when you gave
evidence earlier that the attacks appeared to be made on
this general basis that had nothing to do with your sexual
abuse?
A.
That's correct. That's correct.
Q.
And did you find in general people tried to bring up
some issue about your family and some blame on your family
for the problems that you were suffering rather than the
abuse?
A.
Absolutely. That's correct. I am one of 17 children,
one of 17 siblings. So, yes, people were trying to
discredit the whole family in whatever way they could.
That's correct.
Q.
Can I ask you now to read that part of your statement
that deals with Tzedek from paragraph 98?
A. Tzedek. In December 2012, after a period of
undertaking a great deal of work in this area after going
public with my story, I formally established an
organisation called Tzedek. Tzedek is Hebrew for justice.
It is an Australia based support and advocacy group for
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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Jewish victims and survivors of child sexual abuse. It

offers victims a safe, culturally aware environment to come
forward with their story and begin their healing process.
It provides guidance, advocacy and support. I worked as
the chief executive officer of Tzedek until November 2014.
Since its foundation, Tzedek has been in contact with
well over 100 Jewish victims and their families from across
Australia.
Going public with my story over two years ago,
assisting many other victims of child sexual abuse and in
some cases their families, and working to protect other
children within our community, has been a great part of my
healing process. It has given me hope. It has empowered
me. It has given me a voice. The decades of living in
silence with the shame, guilt and anger have been
shattered. Importantly, it has provided me the opportunity
to turn a tragedy into a positive - something that has
benefited me and, I hope, many others.
I have recently relocated to Europe with my family.
While there are several reasons for this, one of the main
reasons has been the ramifications of publicly disclosing
my story. I will still continue my work addressing child
sexual abuse within the global Jewish community.
Q. We'll go to your recommendations. What was it about
the disclosure of your sexual abuse and I presume the
effects of that that was the impetus for moving overseas?
What was it? You have disclosed many years beforehand,
2011. You presumably made the move last year, 2014. Three
years had passed. Was there something still ongoing? What
were the perceptions or experiences you had when you came
to decide to leave the country?
A.
If it was up to my wife, we would have left a long
time ago. We would have left a long time ago if it was up
to my wife. I'll leave it at that. But ultimately it was
just becoming unbearable, these personal attacks. I'm
thick-skinned. I accept that as a leader and as someone
who is taking on a leadership position in such a
controversial and sensitive issue, it's to be expected that
I would come under attack. But it's not my first sensitive
role in the Jewish community. I have had, as I noted
before, a number of other leadership positions in various
areas, including combatting anti-Semitism, which is
somewhat ironic with the allegations about me promoting
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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anti-Semitism; dealing with Capital Jewish Forum, which was

also very sensitive in our community because I facilitated
events within the Jewish community from members of the
diplomatic corps who represent countries that are not in
full agreement with Israel, let's just say. So, my point
is that I was dealing with a whole range of other sensitive
leadership positions and putting myself out there. I'm
used to receiving a lot of criticism for a range of those
things. Those matters never got to me as much as this has,
obviously, because the attacks weren't confined to me. It
was about my family. It was based on rumours, on things
that are completely irrelevant, that were deeply hurtful.
Again, it's things that I could sustain for a certain
period of time, but ultimately I realised, with my wife as
well, that it was perfect from the perspective we had been
thinking about this before I stepped down from Tzedek, we
had already talked about moving, but kind of everything
gelled nicely and we just thought this is a good
opportunity to get up and go. But, as I said, she was
quite happy to move forward - to move on a long time ago.
Q.
I take it, then, it was some considerable strain for
your wife and your family living in the community where all
this was going on; is that right?
A.
Yes. My wife stopped going to many places. There
were streets that she didn't want to go on because people
knew who she was. People think about the impact it has on
victims, but I have always kept my family out of it, my
immediate family, my wife and kids, based on her request.
She's a very private person. She wasn't very keen with me
going public with my story, but she did support me. But
she couldn't - it was very difficult for her to see what
was going on, the blogs, Facebook. I mean, ultimately she
stopped looking at those things, Facebook. When people saw
her on the street, I don't think anyone really said
anything negative to her, but they used to stare and used
to make her feel very uncomfortable, and that, together
with what she knows was going on, became unbearable for
her.
Q.
Mr Waks, can I ask you this. Through Tzedek you have
been in contact with well over 100 Jewish victims and their
families across Australia?
A.
Yes.
Q.
In your perception and experience, does the community
underestimate how long-lasting the impacts of child sexual
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abuse are for the victim?

A.
Yes. I think not just probably within the Jewish
community, but certainly what I have heard, things to the
tune of, "This happened so long ago, why don't you just
move on. You know, we have all experienced some sort of
trauma." I have also heard things like, "You were just
touched. You weren't raped." So there are differences in
terms of how they look at things, whereas someone was
anally raped as opposed to just being fondled and touched
inappropriately. I do understand, and I'm no expert in
this, that there are some differences in the context of
religious texts and whether it's considered sex or not sex
unless there was actual anal rape, but that's out of my
field of expertise. But certainly I have heard all of
those things, "Move on, it happened a long time ago" or "It
wasn't that severe," whether in relation to my case or
other cases where, you know, "Oh, just touched on the
clothes," and you know at the same time I'm reading out a
victim impact statement for David Kramer trial on behalf of
a victim where all he was was touched inappropriately on
the clothes, yet reading the impact was astounding for most
people and very difficult for me to read out on his behalf.
So, yes, I do feel that there is a significant lack of
education around these issues in the Jewish community, yes.
Q.
Just talking more about your experience of dealing
with victims, can I ask you some questions, please, about
what you may have perceived from your discussions with
those victims or your own experience about what barriers
might have existed or continue to exist in disclosure, and
what are the things that maybe stop a victim from
disclosing their abuse that have been, say, conveyed to you
by victims who you have seen?
A.
Out of the 100-plus victims, I would say approximately
20-odd, so the majority as a group, would have come from
the Yeshivah Centre and they are probably the ones who
I dealt with on a more regular occurrence.
At the same time also we did keep a list, a database,
of not only the victims or alleged victims because when
someone comes to us we are not a judge, a court, to make a
decision as to whether or not it happened, so I would have
added them on to that database. But there were also
approximately 25, about 25 alleged or convicted paedophiles
in the Jewish community from across Australia and I would
say that around 15 of those were from the Yeshivah Centre
in Melbourne. And we are only talking about here in
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relation to Cyprys, Kramer, who were convicted from

Yeshivah, and of course Ezzy Kestecher, there were
allegations about him as well. But there was a significant
list and the earliest one dates back from the 1950s or 60s
and common knowledge within the Yeshivah community about
this individual.
In terms of responding to your specific question was
about the barriers. A lot of the responses were, "We've
seen what goes on when someone actually like yourself does
want to take action," and of course we don't all
necessarily need to be public about it. But the feeling
was that there's a strong view within the Jewish community,
especially within the rabbinate and certainly within the
Yeshivah community, not to disclose abuse. Even certain
statements that may arise at different stages where
different rabbinic groups that I'm not necessarily saying
within Australia, it could be overseas, where they support
victims to come forward if there is credible information.
Now, that word "credible" information is very critical here
because who can assess whether or not that is credible
information? That has been an ongoing concern for quite
some time because they say, "Some of these groups, not all
of them, say this" and then they say, when asked about who
will assess it, they say, "Well, come to the rabbi and the
rabbi will assess whether or not it is credible."
In my view victims need to be able to go directly to
the police and let them investigate and let them make that
assessment of what warrants further investigation.
Q.
And keep that away from, say, a rabbi or someone else
who makes the decision for them?
A.
That's correct. The rabbi's job is to provide - in
this context - to provide support, understanding and love
to the victim. That's what they need to do, and their
families. Anything beyond that, they can give rabbinic
advice about certain things, but that's what it is in the
context of sexual - "Go to the police" is what they should
be saying and then, "We are here to provide that ongoing
support if you need it."
Q.
I will come back to the question about barriers, but
just building on "credible", do I understand your concern
to be that where statements are issued that say, "We will
report all credible information to the police," that in
your experience from dealing with victims that causes them
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concern
also
they
not; is
A.
they do
to think that they may not be believed and is there

a second aspect that who says that the person to whom
are reporting is able to decide what's credible or
that a twofold thing?
Yes, yes, and then to receive that ongoing support if
decide to take the matter further.
Q.
In your experience dealing with victims and your own
experience, is needing to be believed one of the central
things that victims need?
A.
Absolutely. That's why I mentioned earlier the fact
that (a) my father believed me straight away when I raised
that with him and then at the VOCAT, the tribunal where the
magistrate actually believed - it was there acknowledging
and providing some compensation and whatnot, and going to
the psychologist, to me that was probably the most
important up until the last couple of years because to me
here we had a government body or judicial, someone from
the judiciary actually acknowledging what had happened to
me. So, absolutely yes.
Q.
Within the Chabad community, just asking of your
experience within that community, do members of the
community seek employment within their own Chabad community
where possible?
A.
It depends on your level of religiosity, firstly
whether or not you would go and get an outside job. That
may not necessarily connect entirely only on the level of
religiosity. Sometimes it's a practical sense. Sometimes
it could be the rabbi. As I said before, you go to the
rabbi and ask whether it's okay to go to work and the rabbi
will say, "Yes." So, there's no straight answer on that.
But it would be fair to say if we are talking about because I'm thinking also global Chabad movement and the
global Chabad movement in America, which is where the
headquarters of Chabad is, is a bit different to what goes
on in Australia. I feel that they are a lot more extreme
in many ways. But it would be fair to say that in the
Chabad community here there are many who depend on their
livelihood on the Yeshivah Centre because their wives are typically the husband will either be studying in full-time
religious studies or going to get a job, but then the wife
typically would be teaching at the college or the centre.
Q.
So speaking about those whose lives are linked to the
Chabad community, have you had experience of victims
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expressing concern about disclosing for fear of perhaps

economic repercussions like not being able to get work or
it affecting members of their family?
A.
I'm trying to think whether or not I have had any
victim tell me that. I do know that that has been an
issue, and it's not only about the employment aspect; it's
also about, for example, in the Yeshivah community they've
been generally very generous in providing either free or
significant bursaries for students to be able to study
there, and I think in many ways that's to their credit.
But what the fear has been to some is that if they say
anything negative about Yeshivah, that they may be at risk
of losing those scholarships.
Q.
So fear of withdrawal of some advantage or opportunity
that's been offered to them by the community?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
That's been expressed to you as a concern in speaking
up?
A.
Yes, that's correct. And also it wasn't just - not
only in the context of abuse victims, but also I've had
members of the Yeshivah community who have wanted to take a
much stronger line who have said to me the same thing, that
they feel - in some cases I've heard, you know, "I've got
relatives that have issues of prospective marriages," I've
had issues about getting scholarships for school, and also
about possibly "What am I going to do if I take a hard line
and say I'm going to withdraw my kids from Yeshivah? Where
am I going to send my kids?" And the reality is there is
only one Chabad school in Melbourne, so they would have
nowhere to take their kids. Therefore it's just easier to
maintain this code of silence. I have appreciated a lot of
the support that I have been receiving via email and
private messages from these individuals. It has meant a
lot to me. Even this morning I received from a Yeshivah
member. But they won't dare to provide that support to me
publicly. That's why it seems to some that within the
Jewish community, and especially within the Yeshivah
community, it's as if everyone is against me, where I know
it's absolutely not the case. There are many who are very
supportive of what I'm doing. They may not necessarily
agree with every statement I make or every action I take,
but on the whole they do support completely the view that
there needs to be accountability at the Yeshivah Centre,
except that they are not in a position to say this publicly
for fear of recriminations.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6055
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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Q.
You have been accused of wanting to bring the Yeshivah

down by a number of your critics and people who have said
publicly that that's been your ambition since you became
public. What do you say about that?
A.
I was deeply offended on one particular occasion where
the current principal of Yeshivah wrote in an email to the
Yeshivah community or to parents in that group words to the
effect that I'm proving yet again that I'm anti-Yeshivah
and anti-orthodox. Nothing can be further from the truth.
While I'm orthodox myself, I don't practice, I'm
traditional and occasionally I may keep certain things
mainly for my children, for the sake of my children.
I don't want them to - I don't want to convey any, pass on
any issues that I have with religion. I want to give them
the best Jewish education that I can, and I have some very
good friends, people I respect and admire who are orthodox
and I see many beautiful things about Orthodox Judaism.
I consider myself to be a proud member of the Jewish
community. I make no apologies for it. So for me to be
called anti-orthodox is deeply offensive and plainly false.
In regards to being anti-Yeshivah, it depends how you
would want to define what "anti-Yeshivah" is. I am anti
the fact that not a single person at the Yeshivah
leadership has ever been held to account in any way. I'm
anti the fact that not a single person in the Yeshivah has
ever apologised to me privately in any way. I'm
anti-Yeshivah in the fact that they have actually gone out
publicly and privately and attacked me, including some of
their leaders and in other ways allowing, facilitating this
climate of anti-Manny Waks and anti-Waks family by the
Yeshivah community.
So if we refer to those things as anti-Yeshivah, then
I guess I am. But ultimately I don't view myself - for me
it would not be an accomplishment if we are sitting here
next year and Yeshivah is not around. I would not view
that as an accomplishment. I would be very disappointed
because I do genuinely believe that the Yeshivah Centre has
done incredible work in so many other areas, including
Rabbi Groner. Despite the incredible damage that he has
caused in this area, I regard him - I have always regarded
him as a larger than life figure, both physically and
spiritually and emotionally. He was always around.
I remember laughing with him. I remember being very
frightful of him as well. But he was someone that
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6056
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
I admired, respected and feared as well.
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He used to reach out to the broader community, both

the broader Jewish community and outside the Jewish
community. I felt we had a great leader in him. The fact
that, as I said before, the fact that the Yeshivah Centre
can provide subsidised education, Jewish education to those
who can't afford it, I was the recipient of such education.
I was subsidised and I am thankful for that. But for
people to say that I want to bring Yeshivah down and it's
about the money, it's absolutely false. It's really to
suit their agenda. That's what it is.
Q.
In terms of calling for accountability, you make some
comment about what you would like to see happen in terms of
what accountability means for you, I think, in your
statement. Could I ask you to tell the Commission what you
see as being important. When you ask for an
accountability, what do you mean?
A.
I'm not sure exactly what I wrote in the statement,
but for me firstly it's about a personal, direct and
sincere apology from the people who count. With all due
respect to the current principal at Yeshivah, the first
letter was signed by Don Wolf, Rabbi Telsner and Rabbi
Smukler, and the second apology to parents was signed off
by Rabbi Smukler. Now, I have no idea who he is besides
the fact that he is the current principal at Yeshivah.
I feel sorry for him because it seems to me that he has
been caught up in the sandwich here. He had nothing to do
with what happened back then. While it may be appropriate
for him to apologise to the school community about it,
everything else has nothing to do with him and that has
been expressed to me directly from other victims as well.
Who are these people? Who is he? Who is Rabbi Telsner,
who again has only been involved in Yeshivah since the
passing of Rabbi Groner.
So the apology needs to be direct and personal from
the people that count, people like Mr Hersh Cooper, who was
the chairman of the Yeshivah Centre Committee of Management
during the time of the abuse and cover-ups. From Mr Don
Wolf, who was until last year the chairman of the Yeshivah
Committee of Management, took over from Mr Hersh Cooper.
People like Rabbi Glick, the former principal of Yeshivah
College and somehow eventually after that he became the
head of student welfare at Yeshivah College after he
stepped down as principal, and now he has the most senior
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6057
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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role at the Yeshivah Centre as the spiritual head of their

committee, spiritual committee. So he's the head of that.
He's the chair of the spiritual committee.
So the apology is really critical and important. I'm

not interested in an apology from my abusers. David
Cyprys, I know he's not apologetic. The judge made that
fairly clear. He has shown no remorse. So, you know what?
I don't need the apology from him. We went through a court
process. He has been gaoled. I'm actually - I feel like
I've let go with him. I don't have any issues from that
perspective.
In relation to my first abuser, that's not an easy

issue because he's in the US and I have received a letter
from the Victoria Police recently which essentially said
they have done all the investigation; they are just
awaiting him - they are waiting for the opportunity to
interview him if and when that happens.
But I always - despite the significant abuse
I received by him, I always viewed him as very different
from Cyprys. I felt really sorry for him. He was a bit of
a sad case, and I don't know if I'm just forgiving but
I don't particularly have a big axe to grind with him. For
me the biggest issue has been the Yeshivah Centre, both for
the cover-ups, the abuse they could have prevented in my
case and in the case of others, and then also in the way
that they have facilitated the way I described the ongoing
abuse.
In terms of other factors, compensation, there's no
question about that, that I feel like I do deserve
compensation from the Yeshivah Centre, and again not just
because of lack of duty of care and they could have
prevented the abuse, but for the incredible pain and
suffering for the past few decades, but in particular over
the last few years since I did disclose publicly my story
where they have attacked me on an ongoing basis, whether
privately or publicly.
So those are matters. As I understand it, and again
I'm no legal - no rabbinic scholar, but as I understand it
there is a concept of Teshuvah, which is repentance in
Hebrew, and part of that, it entails all these things that
I have just spoken about. It is about seeking genuine
forgiveness from the victim, and the victim - it's up to
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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the victim to decide whether or not to accept that apology

and to offer compensation. The fact that I need to even
engage with lawyers to pursue such proceedings, if they
were genuinely religious people who pursued the letter of
the law just as they do in the context of mesirah in other
cases, then we would stop seeing a lot of the hypocrisy
that we have seen.
Q.
Can I ask you this. This concept of teshuvah, is that
a religious concept or a cultural concept? Is it just a
practice that exists within the orthodox faith?
A.
The word teshuvah means repentance in Hebrew. I do
know simply because I have spoken to a number of rabbis
about this and they have explained to me as I understood it
that it is a specific religious concept of teshuvah because
you can say teshuvah in Hebrew in Israel and if you say it
to a fellow Hebrew-speaking person it would simply mean
repentance, to request repentance. But in the context of
religious and Orthodox Judaism it has a different
connotation. But I'm happy to leave it to the rabbis.
Q.
We will explore that with them. Before we move on to
just finishing your statement, without going into who said
it and where it came from, it's been reported to you that
you have been called a moser?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Or an informer?
Yes.
Q.
Can you explain to us how that felt or was that
significant?
A.
Again it's not an easy one to answer because in some
ways I am appalled by it obviously because the concept of
mesirah really - essentially you can become a death target.
Taken at its literal meaning, you become potentially a
target who is legitimate to be murdered because you have
gone and co-operated with the authorities.
Now, I have never felt threatened for my life, and
I make that very clear. But it does highlight the severity
in which this concept is held. Therefore to be considered
a moser is deeply hurtful, offensive and concerning,
especially in modern day Australia. But at the same time
again like other statements when these comments - when
someone refers to me as a moser and it can be traced back
I'm actually quite pleased about it because again what it
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6059
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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does is people have heard me say, "I've been called this,

I'm doing that," and they can see on blogs by anonymous
people, yet when people put a face and a name to the people
who are saying it it makes things a lot easier for me, so
Nechama Bendet or Rabbi Feldman and others, it makes my
work a lot easier.
Q.
Could I ask you, please, to read your recommendations
now, just finishing your statement on 102.
A.
My recommendations. What I would most like to see is
an unequivocal acceptance of responsibility by the Yeshivah
leadership for what happened to me and the others who were
abused, and for the effects on our lives of covering up the
abuse and for allowing it to continue. I would like them
to acknowledge that I did nothing wrong by going to the
police and by speaking publicly about my abuse, and that my
parents have done nothing wrong by supporting me. I would
like them to condemn the ongoing intimidation and
harassment of me and my family, rather than condoning or
even inciting it. I would like them to take steps towards
genuine repentance, teshuvah in Hebrew, which includes
requesting genuine forgiveness and offering recompense.
This would mean a great deal to me.
The reality is that for genuine change to occur it
must happen from within. At this stage I believe that,
while there are some within the ultra-Orthodox community
who wish to see change, these are mainly the younger age
demographic. The leadership group - both broadly in the
ultra-Orthodox community and more specifically within the
Yeshivah Centre - mainly consists of individuals who have
been in their positions for decades. I believe that in
many, if not most, cases they inherited their positions
from family members or have been installed due to their
family connections. This reduces my faith that Yeshivah
will implement the reform that is so urgently needed, at
least not in the short term.
In 2012 I made a submission to the Victorian
Parliamentary Inquiry into the handling of child abuse by
religious and other organisations. In this submission
I made a number of recommendations that I think are still
needed.
Organisations dealing with children must maintain open
and transparent structures at all times to enable the free
flow of information and encourage reporting of, amongst
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6060
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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other things, sexual abuse of children under the auspices

of such organisations.
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Funding should be made available to relevant agencies

within religious communities to both educate about child
sexual abuse and assist such victims within their
respective communities. However, given the intertwined
relationships described above, any such funding must be
carefully vetted to prevent real and perceived conflicts of
interest which might impact upon the protection of
children.
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8
The mandatory reporting requirements should be

broadened - for example, this requirement should not just
apply to teachers but also to others with responsibility
for the welfare of children such as religious leaders, for
example rabbis, lay leaders, for example board members of
relevant institutions such as the Yeshivah Centre and peak
bodies, and leaders of student activities; it is very
common within the Yeshivah Centre for 18-year-olds to
22-year-old students to lead younger students during weekly
activities and on overnight camps.
There should be a standard, possibly government
authored, code of practice in relation to organisations
responding to child sexual abuse allegations. Such a code
should make it clear that, for example, all allegations
must be reported to the police as soon as they become known
to the organisation and that under no circumstances should
an alleged paedophile be assisted in leaving Australia.
Similarly, the code should address issues such as systemic
practices to discourage reporting of child sexual abuse
allegations, such as threats or of excommunication or even
invoking religious doctrine to engender silence through
guilt, promise of success in the afterlife et cetera.
Institute a scheme to encourage alleged victims, their
families and organisations to go to the authorities.
Institute a scheme to compel organisations to fully
cooperate with the authorities in investigations into
allegations of abuse under their auspices. This should
extend beyond the legal requirements where organisations
may do the bare minimum and not be subject to criminal
actions. Incentives may be an option to consider.
I also made a number of additional recommendations for
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6061
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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legislative change which I ask this Commission to also

consider. Remove the Statute of Limitations on civil
claims. In order to ensure that there is compensation
available to meet any future claims, certain institutions
should contribute a statutory amount to a government
controlled fund to provide for payouts in the event that
any of the responsible institutions are no longer in
operation or have altered their business structure in some
way to avoid liability.
The contribution scheme could be applied flexibly,
such that it takes account of the differences among
institutions, such as by size, number of institutional
leaders, funding, assets or some other measures to be
determined. The value of the contribution could be
calculated similarly; alternatively trigger points could
apply such that some institutions could avoid contribution
if they met certain disclosure, training or insurance
requirements, or were not, for example, implicated in any
reports to police or involved in any eventual convictions.
Where fault is found on the part of the institution
there should also be strict personal liability for all
those involved in the management or governance of the
institution. Those responsible for setting the culture,
practices and procedures of the institution should be and
remain accountable for any actions carried out by those
employed or engaged by the institution. The personal
liability should apply even to those who were not present
at the time of the alleged activity, as this would ensure
that those seeking to assume a position in an organisation
would make the necessary enquiries and conduct their own
due diligence before assuming any position of
responsibility. Any areas of concerns noted during these
enquiries should also be made a mandatorily reportable
issue.
Criminal liability should also be considered for those
in responsible positions within organisations who have
knowingly turned a blind eye to child sexual abuse or who
have knowingly aided paedophiles to escape the
jurisdiction. Indeed, I would urge the Royal Commission to
consider recommending to Victoria Police to open a formal
criminal investigation into the Yeshivah Centre to see
whether any laws have been breached by any of its leaders.
Many institutions seem to use organisational structure
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6062
M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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to avoid liability. This includes transferring assets into

trusts or other arrangements which are either
unidentifiable or which cannot be sued because they
themselves did not cause the harm. The law should be
changed to specifically permit courts to disregard any
trusts or other defensive structures and make orders
applying liability to the entity holding the assets.
Consideration should be given to an accreditation or
compliance system by which institutions are required to
name all their managers, provide a service address, declare
that they have assets, and nominate the entities which
should be investigated and served in the event of a claim.
Failure to do so would result in the institution losing tax
free status, government funding, special privileges
et cetera.
The Victorian government should consider legislative
amendments to either expedite extradition procedures or to
simplify them so as to remove any obstacles to
investigation and the administration of justice. If
necessary, the Victorian government should approach the
federal government and foreign governments to cooperate
with any changes which will address these goals. Thank
you.
Q.
Mr Waks, just before we conclude - and I note the time
Your Honour, Commissioners - I just wanted to ask through
those recommendations it would appear that a central theme
is accountability, both by the perpetrator and anyone else
who might have been complicit or failed to act?
A.
Absolutely. As I said, the fact that not a single
person from the Yeshivah leadership has ever been held to
account in any way, shape or form is astounding. The fact
that those who held senior leadership positions at the time
still hold in some cases those same positions, whether it's
board members, or the Yeshivah Centre Committee of
Management, and then we have the Yeshivah Centre Board of
Trustees, it's the same people there, of course Rabbi
Glick, who was the former principal back then at the time
of the abuse and cover-ups, and he's now the chair of the
spiritual committee at this institution, it does not make
any sense to me, both from the perspective of victims and
their families, that these people have not been held to
account in any way and also from the community's
perspective in terms of having these people remain in these
leadership positions.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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M WAKS (Ms Gerace)
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I accept that times were different back then and

therefore there are some mitigating circumstances, is how
I would describe it. But child sexual abuse is child
sexual abuse. It was wrong then. It's wrong now. People
would have known it was wrong back then just as they are
aware about this now. So just to be clear about my
mitigating circumstances claim, had the Yeshivah Centre
been forthright, honest, apologetic, showing contrition and
that they do want to work with victims and support them,
there's no way that I could possibly have been so
antagonistic towards them because they would be showing to
me that they were trying to do the right thing,
irrespective of what happened back then.
But all I have seen from Yeshivah for the last few
decades has been initially ignore the abuse, then cover it
up, and then be involved in intimidation and harassment and
all of that. So from my perspective accountability is
right up there, and I do expect and hope that as part of
this process we will something like that happen. Whether
or not it's as a direct result of the findings of the
Commission or whether or not the Yeshivah leadership will
now - obviously they have had decades to reflect on this
and since I went public with my story mid-2011 they have
had a few years to reflect on this, but if anything is
actually going to be a catalyst for change in terms of
accountability I'm genuinely hoping that over the next few
days we will see some resignations, some people taking
responsibility for what has transpired.
Q.
Thank you, Mr Waks. Your Honour, Commissioners, it is
4 pm. That essentially concludes my questions, but we will
resume at 10 o'clock tomorrow.
Resume with Mr Waks?
MS GERACE:
I might take some indications if anyone has
any questions of Mr Waks.
MS RICHARDS:
I have nothing further at this stage, and if
there are no other questions for Mr Waks then I will have
no questions for him.
All right. Does anyone else at the
Bar table want to give an indication as to whether or not
they have any matters that they wish to raise with Mr Waks?
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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MR VAN DE WIEL:
questions.
I want to ask him a couple of

All right, Mr van de Wiel. We will
leave that until the morning then and give Ms Richards the
opportunity to respond. So, Mr Waks, we will have you
return for the morning. It sounds like we are not going to
need you for very long.
A.
Is there any way of actually -THE PRESIDING MEMBER:
Does that cause a problem for you?
A.
I would much rather finish the cross-examination now.
Mr van de Wiel?
MR VAN DE WIEL:
Are you going to be very long,
No, I will be about five minutes.

Let's do that.
A.
<EXAMINATION BY MR VAN DE WIEL:
MR VAN DE WIEL:
Q.
Firstly, can I take you from the
tender bundle to 88, which is just a very short matter.
There is a series of accounts rendered by Mr Cyprys which
have been paid. I wonder if we could go to that document,
tender bundle 88. It's the accounts section of it. If you
could be shown that for a moment. YSV.0001.001.0015 is the
one I want to take him to.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
It is page 3 of the accounts?

Yes.
Q.
I want to take you, Mr Waks, to the last entry there
on 18 May 2007?
A.
What paragraph number is it?
Q.
It is not a paragraph. It's a series of accounts,
Mr Waks. That's it. It just flashed up on the screen
then. They are accounts from Shomer Security, which
I understand is the entity run by Mr Cyprys to Yeshivah
Beth Rivkah Colleges. The last item on page 3.
A.
Yes.
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6065
M WAKS (Mr van de Wiel)
Q.
Do you see there on 18 May 2007 there's an account
rendered for the mikveh keys by Mr Cyprys?
A.
Yes.
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Q.
And paid. The mikveh to which Mr Cyprys had the keys
was the mikveh in which you were assaulted; is that right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
A.
He is still rendering accounts for it in 2007?

2007? So he paid to get this copy of the key in 2007?
Q.
Yes. The other item that I would seek to take you to
is from tender bundle 32. It's document YSV.0001.001.0421.
It relates to a committee meeting on 13 May 2014. The item
under discussion and present during there you will see
Nechama Bendet, Shimshi Jurkowicz. At the bottom of the
page on that page you will see "SY". Do you know who SY
is?
A.
I'm not sure.
Q.
A.
That's Shimshi Jurkowicz?

Okay. The son-in-law of Rabbi Groner.
Q.
A.
He's the son-in-law of Rabbi Groner?

Yes.
Q.
And what he suggests in the course of that meeting is
obtaining advice regarding the heavily discounted school
fees that were provided to Zephaniah Waks, that's the ZW,
over many years; is that right?
A.
Yes, that's correct, which obviously I didn't see that
and that would really highlight the fact that they are
looking at all sorts of strategies in terms of trying to
undermine or attack my family, is what I would take out of
that.
Q.
Belittle your family to the point that where they had
17 children who attended that school and they got a
discount, now that you have made a claim against them they
want to review the fact that this subsidy had been given?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Right?
Yes.
Q.
The greater the subsidy, the greater the level of
child abuse; is that it? Is that the way it works? And to
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
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punish your father?

A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Thank you.
Thank you for raising that.

MS RICHARDS:
Ms Richards?
There's nothing from me, Your Honour.

you, Ms Gerace?
Anything arising out of that for
MS GERACE:
No, Your Honour, thank you.
10 o'clock tomorrow.
Resume at

All right. So you are excused.
Thank you for your attendance at the Royal Commission,
Mr Waks, and you are otherwise excused and we will resume
at 10 tomorrow.
AT 4.10PM THE COMMISSION WAS ADJOURNED ACCORDINGLY
.02/02/2015 (C0060)
C6067

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ROYAL COMMISSION INTO INSTITUTIONAL

RESPONSES TO CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE

Public Hearing - Case Study 22

Court 3.3, County Court of Victoria

On Monday, 2 February 2015 at 10.00am

Justice Jennifer Ann Coate

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THE PRESIDING MEMBER:

Good morning, Ms Gerace.

If the Commission please.

Thank you, Ms Richards.

Thank you, Mr Barker.

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THE PRESIDING MEMBER:

THE PRESIDING MEMBER:

Thank you, Mr Noonan.

Thank you, Mr Strickland.

So I formally call upon

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The scope and purpose of this hearing is to inquire

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They are witness [AVA], a former student of Yeshivah

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have been redacted from the documents. Where offenders

As the evidence in this case study is expected to

The facts identified in these submissions are drawn

David Cyprys was a serial abuser

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of children. On 8 September 1992 in the Magistrates' Court

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Rabbi David Kramer. Rabbi David Kramer was a former

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of indecent assault of a child who was a student at Yeshiva

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endorsed by the institutions. The Commission

Chabad is a sect of Orthodox Judaism within the

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the Rebbe encouraged emissaries to establish Jewish

Once the Rebbe appointed an emissary to a territory,

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school. The success of this school led in 1954 to the

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early education centres, including Gurewicz Learning

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Yeshivah Centre and Chabad's emissary to New South Wales.

As the emissary for Chabad in New South Wales, Rabbi

Originally the Yeshivah Centre at Bondi operated

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Cultural, historical and religious influences. The

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this inquiry to examine aspects of Jewish law to understand

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any role in responding to issues of child sexual abuse.

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1987 and 1990 by Cyprys. Manny Waks will describe how he

Manny Waks will give evidence that from 1987 until

abuse would occur in class, in or about the

This case study will examine Manny Waks's experience

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abuse and following Manny Waks's work as a public advocate

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the Rabbinical Council of Victoria, a resolution that

[AVB] will give evidence of the response of leaders

[AVC]. [AVC] is the wife of [AVB]. [AVC] is called