What should be the limit of tan delta value for 10MVA

22KV/11KV transformer- standard to be referred to?

swagata M.Principal Engineer at Technip KTI

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March 11, 2011

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Kollangi M., Mingchin H. and 2 others like this
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Mladen
Mladen B.
PhD, Principal Consultant at Merit Media Int.

0.5 % at 20 C acc. to FIST 3-30 Transformer Diagnostics (if FIST is applicable in your
case)

Gopalan
Gopalan R.
Group Manager-Design and Engineering at ETEL Transformers
0.5% is for new transformers, for transformers in service up to 1% can be accepted.

Nand
Nand S.
Lead Engineer - Procurement at Coastal Projects Ltd.
May i know the meaning of FIST?

Mladen
Mladen B.
PhD, Principal Consultant at Merit Media Int.
FIST - Facilities Instructions Standards and Techniques. Here you can find their
publications: http://www.usbr.gov/power/data/fist_pub.html

Gopalan
Gopalan R.
Group Manager-Design and Engineering at ETEL Transformers
FIST is US Government publication. As Mr Mohana has said, there are no limiting values
in standards. However, for power transformers tested at the factory, Tan delta values shall
normally be around 0.5%. The residual moisture content normally accepted is around
0.5% for large power transformers. It is generally believed that for small tan delta values,
there is a direct correlation between moisture and tan delta values.

G. Matthew
G. Matthew K.
Solutions Director: Enterprise and Data Technology at Doble Engineering Company
The upcoming replacement for IEEE 62 C57.149 (I think) will state that the limit for this
size should be 0.5% when corrected to 20 C. But that is a commission testing limit. You
must consider where the unit started, the bushings installed, weather conditions and rate
of trend in your final analysis.
Cheers!

P
P R.
Technical Advisor at ABB Ltd
The relevant standard where limiting values for power factor for new and in service
transformers are specified is in clause 6.1.6.8 of IEEE Std 62-1995( R 2005) Guide for
diagnostic Field testing of oil filled transforners. The limiting values are 0.5 % and 1 %
respectively at 20 C , 60 Hz. These values were established by Doble Company in early
70's after extensive field survey and US manufacturers and utilities accepted these
benchmarks after some intial reservations and objections.

true

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rohit
rohit G.
Asst Manager Projects SPI
what is the correction factor temperature for tan delta value of winding??? In which
standard it is referred??

Mingchin
Mingchin H.
senior engineer at TA YA co.
The tan is used to assess the general aging degree of insulation. If you want to estimate
the risks of deteriorated, you can compare the variation of trend of tan between
temperatures and voltages. As if the variation of trend of tan with large values, then it
will be in a critical condition.

P
P R.
Technical Advisor at ABB Ltd
Temperature correction factor for power factor is given in Clause 10.10.5 of ANSI/IEEE
Std C57.12.90 -2006_Transformer Test Code. But these factors may not be valid for all
transformers or for all make.Doble, USA had suggested different values,based on their
experience in that market. It is better to check this factor for different makes.In general,

we can say PF variation with temperature is negligible in fully dried high voltage, oil
filled transformers.If moisture content is high, naturally PF will go up drastically with
increase in temperature.

Dimitar
Dimitar M.
Head of High Voltage Mobile Laboratory
Correcting the ta delta value to fixed temperature give us inexact information about the
condition of oil-paper insulation. Usually I measure the insulation characteristics / tan
delta, insulation resistance / at two, even three different temperatures at interval of 20 C.
Thus I can calculate how tan delta value is changed per 1 C and receive the exact
moisture contain of the insulation.
There isn't a limit for tan delta for transformers in service. However the comparing of
measured values give us useful information. For this voltage level of 22kV the
transformer with old oil the attension lamp will flash at tandelta=2.5% at 20C.

G. Matthew
G. Matthew K.
Solutions Director: Enterprise and Data Technology at Doble Engineering Company
I couldn't agree more with P Ramachandran. IEEE openly acknowledges that the IEEE
temperature correction curves provided can lead to erroneous results so should be used
with care (grain of salt). You really need to rely on large statistical data groups of simliar
designs to get to the true value. You can always ask the manufacturer, but they often don't
have them. We use a statsical database that many call the "Doble Database" that goes
back to the 1920s to develop our temperature correction factors.

Joydeep

Joydeep D.
Testing Manager at Eurogulf Transformer FZE
0.5% at 20C, this same whatever may be the kV class

P
P R.
Technical Advisor at ABB Ltd
Yes .0.5 % limit irrespective of voltage class. But not applicalble to dry type
transformers.
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swagata
swagata M.
Principal Engineer at Technip KTI
What will be the value for dry type transformer?

P
P R.
Technical Advisor at ABB Ltd

Since the types and designs of dry type transformers vary so much IEEE C57.94
Instllation,operation and maintenance of transformers , does not specify any limit values
for dry type transformers.Doble has a large data bank for PF of dry type trfs and they may
be able to give guidance. Normal values vary 1-2 % at ambient temperature.

P
P R.
Technical Advisor at ABB Ltd
As per Doble 1989 conference paper,typical PF for ventilated /open dry type trfs is 2 %
( for HV & HV-LV) and 5 % for LV.For encapsulated units overall PF is 1 %. Modern
day cast coil transformers have a PF 0.8-1 %.

Arun Kumar
Arun Kumar S.
NCC Project Management / National Grid SA
I am not directly involved in TAN Delta testing. What I know is an equipment say a
Transformer or Capacitor banks is in service. The testing guys ask for LC and we permit
them. When we ask them to return the LC, they certify that the equipment is not fit to put
back in to service and give some numbers.
Once they said that a particular PT cannot be put into service. Since it is a critical one we
superseded them and forced them to put back the PT into service. Now it is service for
more than a year.
There should be a clear standards. ie if it is 1 put it into service if 0 remove from service.

Kollangi
Kollangi M.

Asst.C.O.O/QA & IS at Powertrans Consultants & services

The tan delta value is to Check the Impregnation Process (Removing Moisture & Voids if
any in the Insulating paper ,oil) of the Particular Batch.If we use Oil Confirming to IS335/IEC-296 Tan dela value to be fixed by the Designer depending upon the process the
Transformer under go & Oil Used(Paraffinic or Napthanic base).Normally No standards
says it shall be max this much only. When Cable,Crepe Paper along with Transformer Oil
is being used the measured Tan delta value shall be 0.5%( max).

Kollangi
Kollangi M.
Asst.C.O.O/QA & IS at Powertrans Consultants & services
So far i have tested 2MVA Transformers for about 15 Nos (Cast Resin Type) with megger
make Tan delta Bridge ,the tan delta value maximum noticed is 0.5%.

Kollangi
Kollangi M.
Asst.C.O.O/QA & IS at Powertrans Consultants & services
We can not say tan delta is not applicable for Dry Type Transformers.
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Rajeev
Rajeev A.

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AGM at BHEL
A very good discussion. The issue right now I am looking for is whether temperature
correction should be applied at all for the tan delta value. Since it is mentioned in
previous reply by Mr Dimitar Markov and Mr G. Matthew Kennedy that the insulation if
dried properly the tan delta value will not be affected by temperature or the IEEE
correction factors give erroneous results, but at the same time more important question
right now facing us is whether we are right when we apply temperature correction factor
on the Tan Delta value for large power transformers. Since the acceptable limit is 0.5%, it
is not a very good dryout. If we want to have really good dried transformer then I think
value much lower than 0.5% should be allowed, may be 0.3% or so. So I want to know
whether temperature correction isacceptable for tan delta values when measured at
ammbient temp range of 20 to 50 Deg C. India is having hot climate, in shop tempratures
can vary from 5 Deg C to 45 Deg C.