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(Stranger)
07-14-00 00:31
No 28473
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Constant stirring towards end is not necessary, just give mix a good stir occasionally.
After all aluminum is added and mostly decomposed slowly pour in a soln of 30g NaOH in 100ml
H20 with careful stirring. Wear goggles and be careful! Base neutralization is highly exothermic!
In 30 minutes all aluminum sludge will solvate into bottom aqueous layer and a nice orange
alcohol layer reeking of amine will settle out on top. Nickel is not dissolved by the NaOH so it will
remain floating around between the two layers but this does not present a major problem. After
all, its not poisonous like mercury or anything! Now decant off the top orange organic layer
and distill off alcohol down to a orange stinky syrup completely different smelling than the P2NP.
Dissolve these goodies in acetone and slowly add sulfuric acid to precipitate the amine sulfate.
Voila!!!!!! about 3 grams light yellow amphetamine sulfate.
[1] Addition of water and acid found to be necessary to initiate rctn. btw NiCl2 and Al.
[2] When nitropropene was added to NiCl2 soln before conversion to Ni powder was complete
some polymerization occurred greatly reducing yield. It seems essential to add P2NP to rxn after
Ni is fully precipitated.
[3] Use of Sulfuric acid produced inferior results causing polymerization of P2NP to red tar
Increasing Yield: Use overhead mechanical stirring to keep nickel catalyst better suspended
during reduction. Re-extract aqueous NaOH/Al layer w/ toluene and work up in standard
manner. Use larger amount of nickel catalyst and more aluminum for hydrogen generation.
zooligan
(Hive Bee)
07-14-00 01:50
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Thanks Ritter! This great write-up right on the heels of Beaker's 2C-B is wonderful. I wonder
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No 28493
what the 2C-H yield using this method to directly reduce 2,5-DMNS would be???
Thanks too to CHEM_GUY for enlightening the Hive to the benefits of Urushibara, and for
answering my dolt-like questions regarding same offline!
Alphabeta121
(Hive Bee)
07-14-00 04:42
No 28556
Antibody2
(Hive Bee)
07-14-00 16:17
No 28708
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could you also increase yeilds by placing the beaker into an ultrasonic cleaner bath, thereby
sonicating it as well? see old hive for great ultrasonic info
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CHEM_GUY
(Hive Bee)
07-14-00 21:04
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No 28801
I'm glad it worked for you Ritter and thanks for the props! The write up is excellent, and the
commentary worth while. Great job.
That Ultrasonic crap:
From "The Journal of the American Chemical Soceity", yr 1987, Vol 109,
pages 3459-3461
"Hetrogeneous Sonocatalysis with Nickel Powder
We have discovered that ultrasonic irradition of Ni powder increases
it's activity as a hydrogenation catalyst by >10^5. ...
The use of high-intensity ultrasound to initiate or enhance both
homogeneous and hetrogeneous chemical reactions has been under
intense investigation [1-7],...
Simple Ni powder is an extremely inactive catalyst for hydrogenation of
alkenes. Even after 2 X 10^4 min, no alkanes are deteacted with rapid
stirring under 1 atm of H2 at 273 K (i.e., <10 nM/min). In comparison
under the same conditions, if the nickel was first irradiated with
ultrasound [12], 1-nonene is hydrogenated at millimolar per min rates,
as shown on Figure 1. Ultrasonic pretreatment of ~1 h gives optimal
activity, which decreases with longer irradiation. The hydrogenation
activity is quite general and shows little dependance on the choice of
alkene... ; no reduction of ketones or aldehydes was observed.
Other methods of creating active Ni catalysts exsist [13]. The thermal
hydrogenation rates at 1 atm of H2 and 273 K with high surface area Ni
sponge (Raney Ni [13a], Aldrich Chemicals, grade W-2) are comparable
to those obtained eith ultrasoniclly activated Ni powder. Compared to
Raney Ni, however, our activaed Ni powder is more selective
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(C-O double bonds are untouched), much easier to produce, and much
simpler to handle (nonpryophoric). Activation of Ni powders by H2 at
150 C and 10 atm will also generate reactive catalysts [13b], which
rapidily lose activity upon exposure to O2.
..."
[1] Adv, Organomet. Chem. 1986, 25, 73. (b) Modern Syth. Methods 1986,
4, 1. (c) Ultrasound: Its Chemical, Physical and Boilogical Effects
1987. (d) J Chem. Ed. 1986, 63, 427. (e) Ultrasonics 1985, 23, 157.
[2] J. Am. Chem. Soc. 1983, 105, 5781. (b) J. Am. Chem. Soc. 1983,
105, 6042. (c) High Energy Processes in Organomettalic Chemistry,
American Chemical Society 1987, p 191.
[3] High Energy Processes in Organomettalic Chemistry, American
Chemical Society 1987, pp 209-222. (b) Organometallics 1986, 5, 1257.
(c) Nachr. Chem. Tech. Lab. 1983, 31, 797. (d) J Org. Chem. 1982,
5030.
[4] Ultrsonics 1987, 25, 40. (b) Tetrahedron Lett. 1986, 27, 3149.
(c) J. Org. Chem. 1985, 50, 910, 5761. (d) J. Amer. Chem. Soc. 1980,
102, 7926.
[5] Angew. Chem., Intl. Ed. Engl. 1983, 22, 728. (b) J. Am. Chem. Soc.
1984, 106, 6856.
[6] Ultrasonics 1987, 25, 45. (b) J. Lab. Pract. 1984, 33, 13 and
references therein.
[7] Tetrahedron Lett. 1986, 27, 415. (b) J. Am. Oil Chem. Soc. 1983,
60, 1257. (c) Chim. Ind. (Milan 1968, 50, 314.
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CHEM_GUY
(Hive Bee)
07-15-00 03:55
No 28935
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I have only one question about the procedure that you've stated: You say "At this point
Urishubara nickel catalyst is prepared and ready for reduction." But in the above passage you
never describe activating the Ni powder with a either a caustic or acidic wash.
Did you take the Ni preceptitated with the Al and wash it before the addition of the nitro- and
the conc. HCl?
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Antibody2
(Hive Bee)
07-18-00 22:50
No 30169
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Would neutralizing a Nickle Carbonate from a potters supply with HCl and then reducing, yield the
Nickel chloride hexahydrate required for this catalyst?
I know you mentioned regular reynolds wrap, but purely out of curiosity does the Al thickness
have the same relationship to the RXN that it does with Al/Hg reductions? ei can the RXN be
slowed or speeded up by varying foil thicknesses?
What are the pitfalls a novice chemist might anticipate in pursuing this route?
Thanxs again for blazing a new trail fer us bees
Life is a dream (until someonew wakes you up)
Bwiti
(Hive Bee)
07-25-00 12:58
No 32821
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If that synth doesn't belong on Rhodium's site, then I don't know what does ! It's official folks,
the war on drugs is a joke. Good job Chem_Guy !!
}>
If there really was a God, I would have been forwarded to Hell a long time ago.
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Ritter
(Stranger)
07-25-00 21:02
No 32946
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Chem_guy:
Oops, forgot to mention activation of catalyst! Add this between first and second paragraph:
Precipitated Nickel powder was added to 100ml 20% NaOH soln and manually stirred at 60'C for
30 min. Excess NaOH is decanted and nickel is washed with 5 x100ml aliquots of distilled water
to remove excess base.
psyloxy
(Hive Bee)
08-04-00 14:20
No 36552
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Precipitated Nickel powder was added to 100ml 20% NaOH soln and manually stirred
at 60'C for 30 min.
The 1st paragraph ends with ppt Ni in EtOH soln. Does one have to filter off the Ni or could one
also pour the 20% NaOH directly into the EtOH ? If it has to be filtered, what would be the best
way to do so ?
--psyloxy--
Antibody2
()
01-22-01 18:04
No 168829
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This is a trully awesome reduction. Not touchy at all. A FOAF triied it on TMP2NP, temps were
up to 60-70C during catalyst prep. The catalyst was not isolated , just 3ml of HCl was added
after catalyst prep, to activate. Not even certain that precipitation had finished, but hydrogen
evolution had stopped. Temps were in the mid-high 60s throughout reduction which only took 3
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hours.
Yield was 60+%. (closer to 50% after clean up) Way cool for the 1st kick at the can. I am
impressed! Its all OTC!
Question though. could methanol be substituted for the ethanol? Be easier to control
temperature that way.
BTW - FOAF found that temp increased with stirring as did hydrogen evolution (causing beaker
to foam over). something to keep an eye on.
Also to avoid Ni at interface while separating layers toss a magnetic stir bar in and stir with the
NaOH douse. All the Nickel will stick to it, then you simply transfer the stirbar w/ nickel to beaker
of HCl and stir to regenerate your NiCl2(H20)6. (takes a couple days though) Probably a little Al
goes over to, Oh well.
Curious though, there is a white precipitate in the HCl as well, is this Aluminum Chloride? Be
sweet if Alumninum Chloride isn't H2O soluble cuz it'll make seaprating the Ni easier.
Antibody is wearing one big assed smile!
Just gone.
uemura
(Hive Bee)
01-24-01 16:05
No 169112
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Lem
(Newbee)
01-25-01 20:53
No 169343
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LOL!
Chemicals!?!?!? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING CHEMICALS!!!!!
Great work guys!!!!
The only right we have is to believe that we have rights.
Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
06-07-02 07:17
No 318466
solution
Lem2
(Hive Bee)
06-09-02 01:28
No 318966
asdf
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"Dissolve 5g pure phenyl nitropropene in 50ml Ethanol and add to nickel soln."????
If the 5%NaOh was decanted off the percipitated Ni then washed with water how is there a
solution. Is the Ni first placed into some EtOH? Or is the nitropropene/EtOH added directly to
the ni.powder?
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Antibody2
(Rehabilitated)
06-09-02 15:55
No 319114
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add it directly to the nickel after decanting the activation solution. Your rxn will get very viscous
as it progresses, requiring the addition of more EtOH. It wouldn't hurt your rxn to bring your
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No 319114
as it progresses, requiring the addition of more EtOH. It wouldn't hurt your rxn to bring your
volume up to 125mls EtOH. You will still end up with a viscous slush at the end. If you look on
Rhodiums page you will see my variation of this same rxn for TMA-2. Check solvent volumes
there.
happy redxns
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