Three Approaches to Psychology

[Music playing]
Psychotherapy is a personal and private process that is a mystery
to people who haven't gone through it. The following theory is a
unique effort that allows us to sit in on a very private therapeutic
experience. An actual patient was courageous and considerate
enough to allow herself to be photograph while engaged in therapy.
We are allowed the privilege of seeing and feeling what really
transpires.
A film series like this in which three distinguished therapists
share their therapeutic endeavors has never been made before.
We express our gratitude to Gloria the patient, and her therapists
for allowing us to share in their therapeutic adventure.
This series will be divided into three separate films. In the first
we will see Dr. Carl Rogers, founder of client centered therapy
interviewing Gloria. In the second film we will see Dr. Fritz Pearls,
founder of Gestault therapy [sp?] is working with her. In the last
film, Dr. Albert Ellis, founder of rational emotive therapy is our
therapist.
Each therapist will describe their system of therapy briefly. Then
he will demonstrate his work with Gloria and last he will [Can't
hear/can't understand.]
Here is Dr. Carl Rogers.
From my own years of therapeutic experience I have come to feel
if I can create the proper climate and conditions and relationships,
a process of therapeutic movement will occur in my client. What is

this climate and conditions. Will they exist in the interview with
the woman I have never seen before. Let me describe what the
conditions are. One question is can I be real? It has become
increasingly important to me over the years. I feel genuineness is
another way of describing the quality I would like to have. I like
that term congruence. What I am experience inside comes out
through my communication. When I have this quality I am at piece
in the relationship. There is another word that describes. I feel it
in the relationship. I would like to have a transparency. I would
like my client to see through me. Nothing hidden.
I know that my own feelings will often bubble up into awareness
and be expressed in ways that won't impose themselves on my
client.
Second question will be will I find myself praising and caring for
this person. I don't want to pretend to care. If I dislike my client
I should express it. I know that the process of therapy is more
likely to occur and constructive change is likely if I feel a
spontaneous prizing of the person I am work with. You can call it
acceptance or caring. You can call it a non possessive love. I know
the relationship will be more constructive if it's present.
Will I be able to understand the inner world of this person from
the inside. Will I be able to see it through her eyes. Will I be
sensitive to move inside the world around her feelings so that I
know what it feels like to be her, so I can sense the surface
meanings as well as the meanings that lie underneath the surface.
If I can let myself enter into her world of experience, then change
and therapeutic movement are more likely.
Let's suppose I experience some of these attitudes in the
relationship, then what? A variety of things are likely to happen,

both from my clinical experiences and research. We find that if

attitudes of assert are present, then a number of things will
happen. She will explore her feelings and attitudes more deeply.
She will discover new things about herself. She will feel prized by
me. She will prize herself more. If she feels I understand her she
will listen to her own meanings. If she senses a realness in me she
will be able to be more real within herself. I suspect there will be
a change in the manner of her expression. This has been my
experience before. From being rather remote from her
experiencing, it's possible she will move towards immediacy of
experiencing. She will be able to sense and express what is going
on in the immediate moment.
From being disapproving of herself, it's possible she will move to a
greater degree of acceptance. From a fear of relating she may
move toward being able to relate more directly. From construing
life in rigid black and white patterns she may move towards more
tentative ways of construing her experience and seeing the
meanings in it. From a locus of evaluation which is outside of
herself, it's possible she will recognize a greater capacity within
herself for making judgments and drawing conclusions.
Those are some of the changes we have found. I think that they
are all of them, changes that are characteristic of the process. If
I have success in creating the conditions I initially described, we
may see some of the changes in the client. I know our contact will
be very brief.
Therapist: Good morning. You must be Gloria.
Gloria: Yes I am.
Therapist: We have 30 minutes together. I don't know what we

will be able to make of it. I hope we can make something. I would

be glad to know what concerns you have.
Gloria: Well I am nervous, but I feel more comfortable with how
you are talking.
Therapist: I hear the tremor in your voice.
Gloria: The main thing I want to talk about is I am newly divorced.
I have gone to therapy before. The biggest change is adjusting to
single life. One of the things that bothers me is having men to the
house and how to fix the children. I have a 9-year old daughter
who I thought had emotional problems. I wish I could stop shaking.
I am conscious of things affecting her. I don't want her to get
upset. I want her to accept me. We are open about sex. She saw
a single girl who was pregnant. She was confused how she could be
pregnant if she wasn't married. The conversation was fine. She
asked me if I had made love to a man since I left her daddy and I
lied to her. Ever since that it comes to my mind because I feel
guilty lying. I want her to trust me. Will it affect her wrong if I
told her the truth.
Therapist: It's a concern you have with her. You feel the
relationship is damaged.
Gloria: I found out when my parents had sex, I didn't like my
mom. I don't want to lie to Pammy.
Therapist: I wish I could give you the answer about what to tell
her.
Gloria: Would it affect her if I was completely honest. I am
worried it will make a strain since I lied. I want her to trust me. I

am afraid she would think I am a devil. I want her to accept me.

How much can a 9-year old take.
Therapist: She might think you are better than you are or worse
than you are.
Gloria: I paint a picture of being sweet an motherly. I am
ashamed of my shady side too.
Therapist: If she really knew you, could she accept you?
Gloria: I don't want her to turn away from me. I feel guilty when
I have a man over. I try to make a set up that the children
wouldn't catch me. I know I have these desires.
Therapist: It's not only her problem, it's in you as well.
Gloria: I feel guilty.
Therapist: What can I accept myself as doing. You want to make
sure you are not caught. You are acting from guilt.
Gloria: Guilt. I would like to feel comfortable with what I do. I
don't. I want to be honest, but I think there are areas I don't
even accept.
Therapist: If you can't accept them, how could you possibly tell
them to her. You do have these desires and your feelings but you
don't feel good about them.
Gloria: Right. I have a feeling you are going to let me stew. I
want you to help me get rid of my guilt feeling so I can feel more
comfortable.

Therapist: I don't want you to stew in your feelings but this is

the very private thing I can't answer for you. I will try to help you
work towards your own answer. I don't know if that makes any
sense.
Gloria: I appreciate you saying that. I don't know where to go. I
thought I worked through my guilt but I am disappointed in myself.
I want to feel good about myself regardless of what I do. I don't.
There is a girl at work who mothers me. I think she thinks I am all
sweet. I don't want to show my devilish side. I want to be sweet.
This is all new. It's disappointing.
Therapist: You thought you had worked through things, but you
feel guilty.
Gloria: Yes.
Therapist: I did catch the real deep puzzle that you feel as to
what the hell shall I do.
Gloria: Everything I start to do that is impulsive, I am
comfortable until I think about how I was affected as a child. I
am all haywire when that comes up. I want to be a good mom. I
feel guilty about working. But then I like the money. I worry. I
am a perfectionist.
Therapist: I hear it differently. What you want is to seem
perfect. It's a matter of importance to seem to be a good mother
even if your feelings differ from that.
Gloria: I want to approve of myself, but my actions won't let me.

Therapist: I would like to understand that. You sound as your

actions are outside of yourself. Your actions won't let you though.
Gloria: Right. Like I feel I could approve of myself, if I really
feel in love with a man. I don't think I would feel guilty having sex
with him. I wouldn't make excuses to my children. When I do it
anyway because of the physical desire, I always feel guilty. If the
circumstances were different I wouldn't feel guilty.
Therapist: If my actions were genuine I wouldn't feel guilty.
Gloria: Right. It sounds like I want a perfect situation but that is
how I feel. I can't stop my desires. I justify my actions in my
mind.
Therapist: I guess I heard you saying that's it the children.
Gloria: I am sure that is it more than I am aware. I only worry
about it when I pick it up in the children. Then I notice it in
myself.
Therapist: Sometimes you want to blame men for the feelings you
have. Why should they cut you off from your sex life.
Gloria: I don't think it's healthy to have sex just because you
feel a physical need. That is not quite right anyway.
Therapist: You feel really that at times you were acting in ways
that are in accord with your own inner standards.
Gloria: Right.
Therapist: You are also saying that you feel you can't help it.

Gloria: I can't. I wish I could. I can't control myself as well as I

used. There are too many things I do wrong that I feel guilty for
and I don't like. I want you to give me a direct answer. I am going
to ask it. Do you feel that to me the most important thing is to
be open and honest. Would it hurt them if I told them I felt bad
lying but I want to tell the truth now. What if she is shocked at
me. Would that bother her more. I want to get rid of my guilt but
I don't want to put it on her. Would that hurt her?
Therapist: I am sure this would sound evasive, but you are not
being honest with yourself. I was struck by the fact you were
saying, if I feel alright about what I have done, if I feel alright
about, then I don't worry about what I would tell Pam.
Gloria: I hear what you are saying. I want to work on accepting
me then. I want to work on feeling alright about it. When things
do seem for wrong for me, how can I accept it.
Therapist: What you want to do is feel more accepting towards
yourself when you do things you feel are wrong.
Gloria: You are going to ask why they are wrong. I still think sex
is wrong if you are in love with a man. My body doesn't agree I
don't know how to accept it.
Therapist: It sounds like a triangle. You feel if I say it's okay
and your body lines up on that side of the picture. Something in
you says, I don't like it unless it's really right.
Gloria: Right.
Gloria: I have a hopeless feeling. These are things I feel myself.

I feel like "okay now What."

Therapist: You feel the conflict is insoluble.

Gloria: I know I need to figure it out myself. Can you guide me or
show me where to start so it won't look so hopeless. I know I can
keep living with this conflict. I know it will eventually work out. I
want to feel more comfortable with how I live and I am not.
Therapist: What is it you wish I would say to you?
Gloria: I wish you would say to me to be honest and take the risk
that Pammy is going to accept me. If I could risk it with Pammy,
then I would be able to think I am not really that bad if she
accepts me. I want you to tell me to be honest. I don't want the
responsibility that it would upset her.
Therapist: You want to be yourself and have her know you are not
perfect. You want her to love you and accept you as an imperfect
person.
Gloria: I wonder if my mom was more open with me maybe I
wouldn't have a narrow attitude about sex. If I would have
thought she could be sexy, I wouldn't have thought of her as a
sweet mother. I want Pammy to see me as a full woman and also
accept me.
Therapist: You don't sound so certain.
Gloria: What do you mean.
Therapist: You tell me what you want to do with Pam.

Gloria: I don't want to take the risk of doing it unless an

authority tells me.
Therapist: It's an awfully risky thing [Can't hear/can't
understand.] You would be taking a chance on your relationship
with her. You would be taking a chance with letting her know who
you really are.
Gloria: Yes, but if I don't, I am never going to feel good about it
anyway.
Therapist: If her love an acceptance is based on a false picture,
what is the good in that.
Gloria: I feel there is responsibility with being a mother. I don't
want to cause trauma in the children. I don't want to feel like it's
my fault.
Therapist: It's risky to take the responsibility for being the
person you want to be with her. That is frightening.
Gloria: I look at it two ways. I want to see myself being honest no
matter. I get jealous when they are with their daddy. They see a
sweet picture of their dad. I am envious of that. I know he is not
as real with him. I feel like I need to swap one for the other. I
miss the glory.
Therapist: You want them to have a nice picture of me like they
do with their dad even if he is phony.
Gloria: That is close.

Therapist: You find it hard to believe that they would really love
you if they knew you.
Gloria: That is right. Before therapy I would have chosen the
other area. I would want respect even if I had to lie. I know that
is not true. I don't know if they will accept me. I want
reassurance.
Therapist: You are in a no man's land probably shifting from one
point of view to another. You want somebody to tell you to do it.

Therapist: It's hard to chose something on your own.

Gloria: That makes me feel immature. I wish I could stick my
decisions. I need somebody to help and push me.
Therapist: You reproach yourself for that. You think if you were
mature enough you could decide for yourself.
Gloria: I should take more risk. I should think no matter what I
tried my best. I disrespect people who lie. I don't like that I am
bad and that I lie. I want to be more accepting.
Therapist: I guess you sound like you hate yourself more when you
lie than when you go against your standers.
Gloria: I do. I lied to Pammy a month ago. She may have
forgotten that she asked me.
Therapist: But you haven't.
Gloria: I want to tell her I am sorry for lying and it has been

driving me bugs until I did. I feel more relieved now. I just feel
like you have been saying, you know what pattern you want to follow
now follow it.
Therapist: You have been telling me you know what you want to do.
I believe in backing people up in what they want to do. It's a little
different slant. I want you to understand your own inner choices.
Gloria: There is conflict. I don't know what I want to do. I don't
know what I want to do when I go against myself. For example if I
have sex with somebody I really don't want to.
Therapist: You don't like when you do something against yourself.
Gloria: Yes. This is so different. It's not just knowing what you
want to do. When I find myself doing something that I am
uncomfortable with, and I feel uncomfortable with it, I tell myself,
if I don't feel comfortable with it, then it must be wrong. How can
I know which is the strongest? Because I do it does that mean it's
the strongest? If I disapprove does that just go along with it? I
am not following.
Therapist: You are feeling a contradiction in yourself too. You
said the way you like it is when you feel comfortable about what
you are doing.
Gloria: I have at times when I have made a decision. Sometimes I
feel a conflict with things I do. There is a conflict there. It's not
the same at all. How do I know if I am following my true feelings
if I have guilt afterwards.
Therapist: Because in the moment it seems like your true feelings.

Gloria: Yes!
Therapist: That is tough if you feel comfortable in the moment
but later you don't. Which course of action should you have
followed?
Gloria: The one thing I know is I wanted to leave my husband for a
long time. I didn't do it. When I did it I felt right. That is when
I know I am following my feelings completely. The small little
things don't come out that clear at all.
Therapist: But you are saying that you know perfectly well you
know when you are doing something that is perfectly right.
Gloria: I miss that feeling.
Therapist: You need to listen to yourself sometimes. You know
when it's a wrong feeling.
Gloria: But I do it anyway. I will just tell myself, I am already in
the situation and I will remember it next time. I mention this word
a lot in therapy. Most grin or giggle when I say Utopia. I want to
feel Utopia whether it's good or bad. I want to feel right about
me.
Therapist: In Utopian moments you feel whole and in one piece.
Gloria: I don't get that often. It's a precious feeling to me.
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.] That really does touch
you.
Gloria: I feel dumb saying it, but I am wanting you to approve of

me. I miss that my father couldn't talk to me. I don't know why
that came to me.
Therapist: You look like a nice daughter. You miss the fact you
couldn't be open with your own [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: I couldn't be open. I want to blame it on him. He would
never listen to me talk like you are. Why do I always have to be
perfect? He wanted me to be perfect. I miss that.
Therapist: You miss trying to be the girl he wanted you to be.
Gloria: I almost gloated telling him that I was a waitress and I go
out and night. I want acceptance and love from him.
Therapist: You want to slap him in the face with it.
Gloria: I want him to say, I knew this was you all along but I love
you.
Therapist: You think there is little chance he would say that.
Gloria: No. I went home 2-years ago. He doesn't hear me. He
will say, you know I love you. He doesn't hear.
Therapist: He has never really known you and loved you. That is
what brings the tears inside.
Gloria: I don't know what it is. When I sit still it feels like a big
hurt. I feel cheated.
Therapist: It's much easier to be a little flipped because then you
don't feel that big lump inside of hurt.

Gloria: Again, that is a hopeless situation. I tried working on it. I

feel it's something I need to accept. I want somebody more
understanding and caring. We can't communicate.
Therapist: You feel permanently cheated.
Gloria: That is why I like substitutes. I like talking to you and
men I can respect. I keep thinking of you as a substitute father.
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: You are not really my father.
Therapist: I mean about the real close feeling.
Gloria: I can't feel you to feel close to me because you don't know
me.
Therapist: I feel close to you in this moment.
[The End]

In spite of feeling the artificiality of the situation, I become

oblivious to the outside situation. I think Gloria did too. I am glad
she kept pushing me for an answer about her personal sex life and
her relationship to her daughter. As the relationship developed it
completely clear that she was seeking something deeper. I would
like to pay my tribute to her deep honesty and being willing to talk
about herself so freely. Every person is unique. I was unprepared
by the material she brought up. This was typical of my experiences
in therapy. When I am able to enter into a relationship and I feel

was true in this instance, then I find myself being moved by being
in touch with my client, but I also find myself bringing my own
experience into it. I felt there were one or two incidents of this
kind in this interview.
I was genuinely moved that she told me that she saw me as the
father she would like to have. My reply was although spontaneous
when I said she could be a nice daughter. We are playing with
relationships when we talk about to transference and color
transference. I feel deeply about that. I want to say yes, we
could put this experience into highly intellectually framework. But
it misses the quality of the relationship. I felt that Gloria and I
encountered each other. In some small but lasting way, we were
enriched by the experience. I am saying these things right after
the interview. There are not many statements I remember. I
know I was present in the relationship. I live in the moment of it's
occurrence. I might remember it too. At the present time, I don't
have specific memories of the whole interview. I will look at it
more from an intellectual point of view. She talked about her past
feelings. She was talking about aspects of her behavior and self as
if she didn't own them.
She was looking outside for a locus of evaluation. Some source of
authority. She saw some things in black and white fashion. By the
end of the interview she was experiencing her feelings in the
immediate moment. She was able to express her feelings towards
me. You could say she moved from the there and then of her life,
to the here and now of elements she was discovering in herself. All
in all, I feel good about the interview. I feel good about myself in
the interview. I feel regret that the relationship can't continue.
[Music]

[Transcriber note: because of the poor quality of this video, this

man's accent is extremely hard to understand]

Psychotherapy is described as the process of helping somebody

help themselves. This is the second in the series of three films.
This will show you how this process things. You saw Dr. Carl Rogers
at work with Gloria with out real life patient.
Now watch Dr. Fritz Pearls. He will also be with Gloria. He will
describe his system and demonstrate his work, then he will
comment.
Therapist: I am to interview the patient. I want to give you a
sketch. Gestault therapy is working on a creation of awareness. In
contract of depth psychology we try to get hold of the obvious of
the situation we find ourselves. [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Any escape into the future or the past, [Can't hear/can't
understand.] Against the ongoing encounter. My aim is this, the
patient should recover his lost potential and understand the
difference [Can't hear/can't understand.]
The civil war of inner conflict weakens the comfort of the patient.
Integration will strengthen it. In the safe emergency of the
therapeutic situation, the patient takes risks. They manipulate the
environment for support into to developing greater self support
that relies on it's own sources. This process is called maturation.
Once the patient has noticed it the need for therapy will collapse.
He will wake up from the nightmare of his existence. Not to
explain things to the patient but to provide the patient with
opportunities to understand and discover himself. I want the
patient to confront himself. He will identify his lost potential.

[Can't hear/can't understand.] [Loud noises.] I consider

interpretation to a therapeutic mistake. That would be saying the
therapist understand him better than he understands himself. It
prevents him from finding out his own values. On the other hand, I
disregard what the patient says and concentrate on the non verbal
level.
On the non-verbal level the revellent will emerge and contend with
the here and now.
[Extremely poor audio quality]
[Transcriber's Summary: The therapist is very argumentative with
Gloria. She is very defensive and feeling like he is treating her like
she is stupid. She is very self conscious that he notices her every
move. She asks him to stop noticing her actions and to leave her
alone. They don't seem to be discussing her problems or what she
has come to talk about, but instead arguing over how he is making
her feel stupid.]
Gloria: Right away I am scared.
Therapist: You say you are scared but you are smiling.
Gloria: I think you understand very well that when I get scared I
laugh or kid.
Therapist: You have stage fright.
Gloria: I am mostly aware of you. I am afraid you are going to
have a direct attack. I want you to be more on my side.
Therapist: Is this your corner.

Gloria: I am afraid.
Therapist: Where would you like to go. Can you describe the
corner you want to go to.
Gloria: Back in the corner where I am completely protected.
Therapist: Where you would be safe of me.
Gloria: I know I wouldn't really.
Therapist: What would you do in this corner?
Gloria: Just sit.
Therapist: This is reminds me of when I was little. I felt better
sitting in a corner.
Gloria: I am 30.
Therapist: You are a 30-year old girl who is afraid of [Can't
hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: I am defensive with you.
Therapist: What can I do to you?
Gloria: You can't do anything, but I can feel dumb and stupid.
Therapist: What would that do to you?
Gloria: I hate feeling stupid.

Therapist: What would it to me if you were dumb and stupid.

Gloria: You would be smarter than me. I would have to look up to
you.
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: I think you can do that by yourself.
Therapist: If you play dumb and stupid I am forced to be more
explicit.
Gloria: I don't buy it.
Therapist: What are you doing with your feet?
Gloria: I am wiggling. I am worried you will notice everything I am
doing. I don't want to be defensive with you. I don't like feeling
this way. You are treating me as if I am stronger than I am.
Protect me.
Therapist: Are you aware of your smile.
Gloria: You are going to pick on me for it.
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: Are you meaning that seriously.
Therapist: If you laugh and giggle and squirm it's phony.
Gloria: I resent that.

Therapist: Can you express it.

Gloria: I am not being phony. It's hard for me to show my
embarrassment. I resent you calling me a phony. I am not a
phony.
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: I am mad at you.
Therapist: You don't need to cover up your anger with your smile.
In that moment you are not a phony.
Gloria: That is because I was mad.
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: I am not a phony when I am nervous. I want to get mad
at you. I want you on my level so I can pick on you.
Therapist: Pick on me.
Gloria: I have for you to wait for something for me to pick on.
Therapist: Can you develop this movement.
Gloria: I can't find worse?
Therapist: Develop it as if you are dancing.
Gloria: I want to start over. I want to know if you like me.

Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.] What would he say?

Gloria: He would say she is a phony. You are a phony and a flip
little girl and you are a show off.
Therapist: What would Gloria answer to that?
Gloria: I would say, I think you are too.
Therapist: Tell me what I phony I am.
Gloria: Phony is not the right word. A show off would be a better
word, like you know all the answers. I want you to be more human.
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: You ask me why I am doing things, why are you doing
things.
Therapist: I have eyes I can see what you are doing. What is big
about that? You don't need to be wise to see you are kicking your
feet.
Gloria: You are trying to find a reason for it.
Therapist: It's your imagination.
Gloria: Can I tell you what I would like. Be aware of what I am
doing it and accept it instead of putting it on the defensive.
Therapist: I didn't ask you to explain. It's your imagination. Do
this again! What is it now?

Gloria: I don't know.

Therapist: Play stupid.
Gloria: I am not playing stupid. I don't know!
Therapist: When you say I don't know that is paying stupid. Is
there something about my hair that you object to?
Gloria: No, but your hair and your features go along with my
feelings about you. You see like you demand respect.
Therapist: Play what you think I am.
Gloria: [Acting like the therapist]
Therapist: I demand respect because?
Gloria: I don't know. I don't feel like I demand respect.
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: I would like you to respect me more.
Therapist: You do demand respect.
Gloria: If I could demand respect from you I would!
Therapist: Then do it! Who is prevent you except yourself.
Gloria: If I get myself in a corner you will let me drown and you
won't help me. I can't come up to standards with you.

Therapist: What should I do?

Gloria: Encourage me to come out.
Therapist: You don't have enough courage to come out yourself.
You need to somebody to pull the damsel in distress out of the
corner. You wait for somebody to rescue you. This is what I call
phony?
Gloria: I am admitting what I am how is that phony?
Therapist: It's a trick and gimmick.
Gloria: I am admitting I know what I do. I am not a phony. I
resent that. You say unless I come out openly then I am phony!
Bologna. It's like passing judgment when you call me phony! I hate
that anyway.
Therapist: I call anybody phony who puts [Can't hear/can't
understand.] If you like somebody and want to meet them tell
them you want to meet them, that is not phony!
Gloria: You are judgmental. You have never felt that way before.
I resent it.
[Arguing]
Therapist: Pass judgment on me now?
Gloria: I don't feel close to you at all. I feel you are playing one
big game!
Therapist: Sure. In spite of the games, I think I have touched

you. I have helped you.

Gloria: Of course you did!
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: When I feel the way I feel with you now, it's like you
don't have feelings.
Therapist: Don't talk to me like that.
Gloria: I want you to be younger so I can scold you.
Therapist: Imagine I am 30-now.
Gloria: Don't be so cock sure of your self. Don't be so proud of
yourself! I like you being younger than me!
Therapist: Embarrass me!
Gloria: You look distinguished. That is more on your side.
Therapist: We had a good fight!
Gloria: No! You are not fighting with me.
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: I am mad at you!
Therapist: Wonderful!
Gloria: You seem detached. You don't seem to care. I feel like

you are not recognizing me at all.

Therapist: I care for as far as it seems. You are my client. I
care for you [Can't hear/can't understand.] I want to bring
something out in you that is hidden.
Gloria: It's frustrating. If I left now, I would feel frustrated. I
feel out of contact with you. We are not in contact. That
frustrates me. That bothers me more than being angry with you. I
would rather fight. This fights me of my husband's and mine fight.
I would rather affect you. I want you to hate me or something. I
feel like you are staying out of contact with you.
Therapist: How should I be?
Gloria: I can't say in words. I know the feeling but I can't say it.
It's a feeling like I don't know. I want you to respect me more.
Therapist: Now we come back to the beginning, you want respect.
Gloria: Yes!
Therapist: [Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: I don't feel like I have a right to tell you how mad I am at
you.
Therapist: You are going back to your safe corner.
Gloria: That is what it feels like to me!
Therapist: Come out for a moment.

Gloria: The only way you will respect me is I am aggressive and

forceful and strong. I am afraid to cry in front of you. You don't
accept my weak side.
Therapist: You my try!
Gloria: I wouldn't even give you the satisfaction.
Therapist: Try again!
Gloria: I don't want to cry in front of you.
Therapist: You are embarrassed.
Gloria: I feel more choky!
Therapist: Could you choke me?
Gloria: I don't hate you that much!
Therapist: You want me to choke you? [Can't hear/can't
understand.]
Gloria: If I wanted to choke you it would be to see you weak. It
would be to see you hurt and vulnerable.
Therapist: What would this do for you?
Gloria: Make me feel like I have more of a right to be hurt!
Therapist: Would you jump on me if I cried?
Gloria: No.

Therapist: But you think I would jump on you?

Gloria: I am not sure of it!
Therapist: What would you like me to do if you cried?
Gloria: I want you to love me and hug me. But then I thought no!
I would be scared to be close to you!
Therapist: Now we are getting somewhere.
Gloria: They are too feelings. I mean close emotionally not
physically.
Therapist: We have two pulls of your existence. [Can't
hear/can't understand.] Or be so close that you can melt into
[Can't hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: I do. You know what I am thinking. When I am hurt and
upset and I want somebody to love me, I don't want a hug.
Therapist: You can't sustain contact. What are you afraid of?
Gloria: [Audio goes out.] I don't know.
Therapist: Are you aware of your facial expressions?
Gloria: Yes! it's icky. I can feel it is. I don't like it.
Therapist: Tell me I am icky!
Gloria: No.

Therapist: What is your difficulty.

Gloria: If you believed me it would hurt your feelings.
Therapist: I thought you thought nothing would hurt me! [Can't
hear/can't understand.]
Gloria: I believe you are the type of person who would act like it
didn't hurt your feelings but it really would. Your feelings could be
hurt, sure! I don't think you would show it.
Therapist: What would that do? How would I conceal my
feelings?
Gloria: Turning it back on me and asking what I got. You wouldn't
show your hurt!
Therapist: Ask me what I got out of it?
Gloria: Sure! I know what you would get out of it! You would say,
nothing! You would cover up your hurt! Same way with me in the
corner!
Therapist: What would you do if I was crying!
Gloria: You wouldn't be so superior. I could pacify you and make
you feel better!
Therapist: I could be the baby!
Gloria: Yes, I would like that. I wouldn't feel so dumb with you.

Therapist: If it was the other way around you would be my baby!

Gloria: I would like that too!
Therapist: Let's come to a nice understanding.
[Audio goes out]
The patient was first taking control by putting on a smiling phony
masks. She was frightened but thought she had me figured out.
[Can't hear/can't understand.] Secondly, she was withdrawing by
fantasizing of hiding in a corner. She was blocking the real enter.
She wanted to respected and cared for. I broke off the session
when the first tears appear. She played the role of lonely child.
She wanted to be hugged and [Can't hear/can't understand.]
I wanted to show her the inconsistency of her nonverbal and verbal
behavior. This embarrassment was protected by her anger. We
would need to eliminant the phoniness. She copes with
embarrassment by being phony.

We are nearing the end of our therapeutic journey. You have seen
two therapists try to help Gloria with her concerns. We are going
to watch Dr. Albert Ellis.
[Dr. Albert Ellis]
Rational emotive therapy (RT) is based on several hypothesis. The

first is that the past is not crucial in a person's life. He affects

himself more than the past affects him. No matter he has learned
during his historical development, the only reason why these things
that have happened to him affect him today is because he is still
reindoctrinating himself with the same values that he usually
taught himself too early in his childhood. We stick to the present
in RT.
We believe that today the individual experiences negative emotions
because he now is indoctrinating himself with simple exclamatory
sentences. These involve ideas. Human beings can tell themselves
ideas in all sorts of ways, but they normally speak to themselves in
simple English, if that is their native tongue.
When they speak irrationally then they create their negative
feelings or emotions. Just to give an example the individual usually
tells himself, first a sane sentence and then a insane sentence.
They will say, " I don't like what I have done." He usually follows it
with an insane sentence like saying I am a louse or no good things.
This insane sentence creates his anxieties.
The individual will tell himself the sane sentence when you have
done something wrong, when somebody has acted badly with him.
Instead of saying because I don't like your behavior I can still get
you to change. You shouldn't be the way you are because I think I
don't like the way you are. It's the second B sentences that
upsets the individual. It's not what happens to us at point A, it's
our view that upsets us. We go after the individual and explain it's
really what he is telling himself about the event that upsets him.
He can change the internal event at B. In RT we show the patient
three kinds of insight.
1. All his behavior, especially negative behavior, has clear cut

ideological antecedents. Right now he must believe these

ideologies, else he would not get the negative behavior that flows
there from.
2. This is the most important. He being as a symbolizing animal, is
continually reindocternating himself with these ideologies and
that's the issue. That is why he is disturbed.
3. Even when he is says clearly, only by work and practice and
reassessing his own philosophical function, will he get better.
Action is necessary to change an individual. What the individual
has to do in addition is act. We give concrete homework
assignments. He is to act these out, and we are to check up and
make sure he does the assignments.
We want the individual to learn to challenge and question his own
basic value systems and his own thinking so he really thinks for
himself. He must do this particularly when he feels miserable,
anxiety, depression or guilt or anything negative or when he
behaves inefficiently. Finally he was able to apply the scientific
method to the facets of human living and to be truly scientific in
his behavior. Thereby he will minimize the terrible anxiety and
atrocious hostility which affects most of us in this existence.
Therapist: I am Dr. Ellis. Be seated please. Well would you like
to tell me what is bothering you the most.
Gloria: I think I would like to talk to you about adjusting to my
single life, in particular men. I am going to refer to your book.
This is what I am impressed with. I tried to follow the book. I
believe in it. I believe the way you do. I have a problem in this
area. The men I am attracted to, I can't meet. The men I date
are not the ones I respect. I don't know if it's something about

me or what. I do want to meet this type of man.

Therapist: Let's talk about this shyness. Let's see if we can get
at the source of your shyness. You meet this man and feel shy?
Gloria: I don't show that. I act flip. I act like a dumb blond. I
am just not myself. I am not at ease.
Therapist: As you probably know, I believe people only get
negative emotions because they tell themselves something. Let's
see what you are telling yourself. What do you tell yourself when
you meet something.
Gloria: I don't stand up to his expectations. I want this type of
man I won't have enough to attract him.
Therapist: Maybe he is superior to you but that wouldn't upset
you if you were only saying that. You are adding another sentence.
"That would be Awful."
Gloria: I have thought about that. I am not quite so extreme as
that. It's usually "I have missed my chance Again." I want to show
the best of myself. When I get afraid then I show my bad
qualities. I am flip and I am on the defensive. I can't show my
good qualities.
Therapist: Let's suppose you are saying that. You must be saying
something else. If you feel shame and embarrassment, you must
be saying something else.
Gloria: I don't know if this is what you mean. But the thing I do
feel is that I do get suspicious. Am I the type of woman that will
only appeal to the wrong type of guy. I wonder what is wrong with

me. Am I never going to find the kind of man I enjoy. I get the
other ones.
Therapist: You are getting closer to what I am talking about. "If
I am this type of woman, that no good man would appeal to that
would be awful." I would never get what I want, that would be
something frightful.
Gloria: I don't want to think of myself that way. I want to put
myself on a higher standard. I don't want to be an average Jane
Doe.
Therapist: Let's suppose that you were average Jane Doe. Would
that be so terrible? It would be unpleasant. You wouldn't want it,
but would you get an emotion like shyness and embarrassment, out
of just believing you will just end up like Jane Doe?
Gloria: I don't know.
Therapist: It would be terrible.
Gloria: I would never get what I want. I don't want to live with
icky men.
Therapist: Your chances would be reduced. There are still icky
girls who get superior men. You are generalizing. It would
probably be that I would have a harder time. You are
catastrophizing.
Gloria: It seems like forever.
Therapist: Isn't that a vote of non confidence in you. This is
because you are saying you don't want to miss out. You want to get

a good man. You want to be a superior girl who get a superior kind
of man. If I don't then I am practically on the other side of the
chain, who is no good. Somebody who won't get anything they want.
That is an extreme ways away. That is catastrophizing. That
would be taking a statement and then saying, I would never get
what I want and beyond that I couldn't be happy. Let's just
assume the worse. Assume the worst. You would never get what
you want. Look at the other things you could do to be happy.
Gloria: I don't like the whole process. Even if it wasn't a
catastrophe, even if I didn't look at it that way. I don't like how I
am living. When I find somebody I like I am not as relaxed. If it
is somebody who I don't care about then I can be anything.
Therapist: You are anxious. If you were just concerned it
wouldn't be that big of a deal. You are over concerned or anxious.
If I don't get what I want, I will never get it. I must get it now.
That causes anxiety.
Gloria: I want to feel like I am working towards it.
Therapist: You want a guarantee?
Gloria: No! I want a step towards working towards it. Whatever
this is in me, why am I on the defensive. I want to know what I am
afraid.
Therapist: I think you are afraid of failing with the man, you are
afraid of missing with EVERY man. Then you are not up to what you
want.
Gloria: You sound more strong at it. If there something that I am
doing wrong, it's silly. If I wasn't so anxious, it wouldn't be so

bad.
Therapist: Look at how you just devalued yourself. Somebody
might not like the attributes, but he is not going to despise you.
Gloria: I am harder on myself.
Therapist: Right! If people just didn't like you, you would
eventually find one who did. As long as you devalue yourself, you
complicate the problem. You are not focusing on how you can be
yourself. you are not focused on how to change the trends. If you
had a mangled arm and you wouldn't accept your whole self, then
you would focus so much on the arm that you wouldn't be able to do
things you should normally be able to do.
Gloria: Yes! That is what I do.
Therapist: You are focusing on just a part of you. You are taking
a part of you, your shyness and focusing on it so much you are
getting an awful picture of yourself. If you could accept yourself
for the time being with this defective part and not beat yourself
over the head, it would be a workable problem to deal with. In
other words let's get back to be yourself. Let's say you accepted
yourself. You know you will screw up sometimes. You are saying,
alright I need to go through a learning process, but I will do it just
the same. It will be like ice skating, I will fall but I will learn it. If
you accept you, you will take the risks of being you. If you do win
one of these men, you need to be yourself.
Gloria: I want to allow a relationship.
Therapist: Right! A long relationship. We don't want you to role
play. Be yourself. If you weren't so disturbed about your current

failings, you could be this self of yours. You could wonder what you
want to do with this man to enjoy each other. You force yourself
to take the risk of being that. If you succeed great, if not too
bad. Either you are not for him, or he may not have been for you.
When these men reject you, you assume it's all your fault. You
can't assume it's all your fault. They may not be your cup of tea
and it's nobody's fault. It's just incompatibility. If you would
accept yourself as you are it would be good. If you were a regular
patient of mine, I would give you homework to force you to be
yourself. I would check up on you to see if you could force
yourself to be you for a while even if it hurt. You would find that
A, you would start being yourself and lopping off these things that
aren't you. You would watch yourself from the outside while you
are being yourself, this is impossible though.
Gloria: It would become like a habit.
Therapist: If you forced yourself to open your big mouth and
talked even if you were worried about it, then you would start
swinging in the grove and be what you want to be. You would
become less inefficient. You wouldn't focus on how bad you were.
You would focus on the nice person you were with. You would
wonder how to enjoy him.
Gloria: See usually it's just the opposite, I am wondering what I
need to do to be more attractive.
Therapist: Underneath, if I am not, then I can't enjoy myself. I
can't enjoy myself if I don't win this person.
Gloria: When there is one of these men and I want to cultivate a
relationship and he accepts me I find myself on the defensive.
Instead of enjoying the time, I am worried.

Therapist: You are giving an illustration of why this doesn't pay.

If you are defining yourself on other's estimation you are always
focused on if you are doing things to please him. You are not
yourself. You need to say, what do I want in life, you will find
somebody who likes you. We haven't too much time. Let's try to
get it off on a constructive note. You want to know how to meet
knew people. If you could do what we were talking about and take
risks and focus on what you want in life, then you can leave yourself
open to all kinds of new encounters. These encounters can take
place lots of different places. The main thing is you have to A) like
yourself and B) be intolerant. If you were my patient, I would give
you homework and put yourself in situations to be yourself. You
would take the most eligible males and forcing yourself to be
yourself.
Gloria: So if I went to a doctor's office I would talk to him
because he appealed to me.
Therapist: Why not if he is eligible.
Gloria: That seems awfully braisen.
Therapist: What do you have to lose. You don't have to reject
yourself just because he does. Can you try to do that.
Gloria: I think so. The worst that will happen is I will be
rejected.
Therapist: You try it. I will be very interested in what happens.
Gloria: I am excited about it.

Therapist: It was nice to meet you.

Gloria: Thank you!

I enjoyed talking with this interesting patient. I thought it gave a

good illustration of RT. It was typical in several ways. I was able
to get to some of the philosophical cores of the patient's
disturbances. The reason she was feeling shy and afraid is
because, she is defining herself in a negative way. Perfectionism is
the root of most human evil. She was showing some notions of
that. We skipped some of the asides and going back into the
history. Skipped a lot of things. We skipped the non verbal
expression. We don't think they are super relative.
Typically this patient showed anxiety and low frustration tolerance,
which most show. She would beat herself the head for feeling
these types of feelings. I showed her some of the sentences and
what could be done about it. I tried to give her a brief homework
assignment to try to go and take risks. I was attacking her
philosophies. She did not feel this attack. She left feeling
optimistic.
I kept persuading the patient and attacking her ideas. I was
showing her that her philosophy was such and such. I told her she
would have to negative feedback from it. She became defensive of
what I was saying. I didn't let this bother me. I kept going on.
[Audio cuts out.]
There were limitations because of the time in the session. They
did have some affect to the outcome. [Audio very low and

inaudible.] I do feel hopeful about the session. I think I was able

to give her some ideas to work on, on her own.
[THE AUDIO IS EXTREMELY POOR]

Now that you have finished viewing the film, you might want to see
Gloria's reaction.
Therapist: Could you tell us about your reaction.
Gloria: I was most relaxed with the first one. The second one
made me uncomfortable and the last one I had to think the most
with.
Therapist: Did you see Gloria different with each of these guys?
Gloria: Yes! I felt my more lovable caring self with Dr. Rogers.
There was not enough feeling with Dr. Ellis. The biggest amount of
emotions came up with the second doctor.
Therapist: Think about each of them again and think in terms of
what you learned.
Gloria: It's hard to think about what I learned.
Therapist: Let's think about it a different way. You had some
negative experiences with the second and third doctor, and at the
same time they were dealing with parts of you that you didn't have
to deal with with Dr. Rogers.
Gloria: Yes, if I only saw men like Dr. Rogers, it would be hard for
my anger to come out. With the second doctor I want to get in

there and fight. The first two doctors were almost the perfect
combination for me. I see one side with each side of the doctors.
I wanted more with the second doctor, I want to go on more.
Therapist: You felt your feeling self with the Dr. Rogers, your
fighting self with the second doctor, and your thinking self with
the Dr. Ellis.
Gloria: Yes, yes! I would have liked more time with Dr. Ellis.
Therapist: You might see there are some important things in
different types of therapy, each had it's own way of getting to
you.
Gloria: If I were new at therapy, I would see somebody like Dr.
Rogers because he is not so frightening. I think I could get the
most with the second doctor although I would really want to battle
with him.
Therapist: You are very courageous and willing to take risks!
Gloria: Oh I appreciate it.
Therapist: Thanks very much!
[End of video]