Offline SMPS Filter With Diodes Across Filter Inductors

Offline SMPS filter with diodes across filter inductors?
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#1
5th May 2014,16:27
treez
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Posted By panda1234. Today 08:31 in Microcontrollers
Offline SMPS
filter with
diodes across
filter
inductors?
Hello,
The below
schematic
shows an offline
SMPS with
diodes across
the filter
inductors. The
diodes prevent
big turn on
voltages
happening due
to LC resonance
at switch on
(especially if
switch on occurs
at the main
voltage peaks).
Why is this
technique not
more used?
design layout in TANNER

Can anyone help me to design the layout in TANNER EDA
tool L-edit..If there is any link for this procedure??
Posted By Ponmalar21. Today 08:06 in ASIC Design
Methodologies and Tools (Digital)
(LTspice
simulation also
attached)
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#2
5th May 2014,18:42
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The way I've

seen in other
offline SMPS to
avoid high peak
turn-on
currents, is to
use a NTC
thermistor; or
in higher
powered units a
wirewound
resistor which
after a second
or so is
bypassed with a
relay.
1 members found this

post helpful.
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5th May 2014,18:42
#3
5th May 2014,18:53
treez
EE News, Tips and Resources
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
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Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
thanks, but a
relay or an NTC
is lots more
expensive than
a simple
diode....so
whats wrong
with the diode?
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systems design
#4
5th May 2014,19:11
Sponsor
schmitt trigger
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FvM (11), Warpspeed (9), BradtheRad (6),
milan.rajik (5), betwixt (5)
There is nothing
wrong with the
diode, it is just
a design
preference or
cost/performanc
e tradeoffs.
Top Posters
FvM (31090), alexan_e (11475), keith1200rs
(10885), bigdogguru (8846), IanP (7943)
Top Experience Points
FvM (186799), IanP (160151), bigdogguru (59569),
tpetar (54409), tsb_nph (53644)
Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
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With a
thermistor one
can control the
peak inrush
current charging
the bulk caps.

post helpful.
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#5
5th May 2014,19:21
treez
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Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
thermistors don't
work well
enough when
hot....also,
thermistors
tend to only be
for higher
power smps's.
Also,
thermistors are
more expensive
than simple
diodes.
The way I show

here is the
cheapest, but
nobody uses
it..why?
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#6
5th May 2014,19:43
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Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
-Design
preferences/
bias
-Legacy design
rules
-Copy/Paste
design
methodology
-The company
has a 1,000,000
thermistors left
over from other
project
-This is the way

I've always
done it....
-etc., etc.

post helpful.
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5th May 2014,19:43
#7
5th May 2014,20:14
treez
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Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
i'm baffled as to
why
powerint.com
app notes, in
triac dimmed
offline flyabck
led drivers, they
are using all
kinds of
damping
circuitry, when
all they need is
the diode?
eg schamtic
page 3
here...why all
the active
inrush
protection when
just the diode
would do?
http://www.pow
erint.com/sites/d
efaul...les/rdr19
3.pdf
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#8
5th May 2014,20:16
eemert
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1
Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
Why not use a
simple inrush
current limiting
circuit instead
of inductors,
yes inductors
can be used for
filtering
purposes but
with an active
inrush current
limiting circuit
you do not need
passive limiting
solutions.
Additionally,
you can adjust
charging time
by simply
changing a
0805 package
cap.

post helpful.
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#9
5th May 2014,20:18
treez
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Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
sorry but filter
inductors are
needed to filter
out the
switching
current......you
cannot just
always do that
with resistors
alone, its too
dissipative
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#10
5th May 2014,20:37
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Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
NOW I
understand...yo
u were
concerned
about the
inductor ringing
from a phasecontrol
waveform!
Initially I had
thought you
were only
talking about
the power-on
phase. Sorry!
Well, like
everything else,
one can have
great ideas on
paper and
simulations, but
actual testing
may dictate
your next steps.
As the attached
app note
indicates, these
components are
for EMI
purposes. So
they may have
tested the
prototype and
found that
resistor
damping helped
them meet the
EMI
requirements
for that circuit.
One thing that I

have learned
about
"Reference
Circuits" is that
they provide a
good platform
for the engineer
to "play" with a
particular IC.
But the circuit
most likely is
not optimized,
may not fully
apply to your
requirements,
or use certain
components
which may be
difficult to
obtain. As such,
substitutions
and changes are
inevitable, and
each engineer is
free to add his
own set of
design
guidelines.
So, if you can

meet EMI, cost
and size
requirements
with a diode
solution, go for
it.

post helpful.
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5th May 2014,21:46
FvM
#11
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Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
I suggest a
different
method to
design a
ruggedized offmains switcher.
First provide it
with surge
immunity as
required by
IEC61000-4-5,
e.g. by Varistors
or TVS diodes. I
assume the
circuit won't
have problems
with input filter
ringing after it.
The quoted
"active inrush
current
protection" is
intended to
reduce periodic
peak currents
with phase
angle control,
the diodes won't
help against it.

post helpful.
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#12
5th May 2014,21:55
treez
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Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
If the dc bus
caps are film
type then
nobody will care
about periodic
inrush currents
into them...its
just the
overvoltage that
needs guarding
against, and the
simple diode
solution, does
exactly that...so
why does
nobody do it?
ok the IEC stuff,

but why not the
simple diode to
go with
that?.....I admit
the diode wont
stop mains
transients
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#13
24th May 2015,18:00
treez
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Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
Hello, this is
relevant to this
thread, so if i
may i would like
to put it here...
Hello,
Do you know
what is the
saturation
current of the
250uH of
stray
inductance in
the 47mH
common mode
choke of part
number =
B82734RZ132B
030 ?
47mH Common
mode choke
datasheet:
(B82734RZ132B
030)
http://en.tdk.eu/
inf/30/db/ind_20
08/b82734r_w.p
df
We need to
know because
we are
investigating
the damaging
effects of the LC
ringing which
might happen
when the power
supply is
connected
(accidentally) to
a leading edge
dimmer which is
turning on at
the mains peak
in every mains
half cycle.
If the stray
inductance
(actually the
leakage
inductance) has
a low saturation
current, then
we neednt
worry about it
ringing with
input
capacitors, as it
will have
saturated and
will not have its
inductance).
Our power
supply has a
boost PFC, so
there is no big
electrolytic after
the bridge
rectifier with
which to quench
such
unfortunate
ringing.
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#14
29th May 2015,07:48
Orson Cart
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Re: Offline
SMPS filter
with diodes
across filter
inductors?
to answer the
original poster,

Points:
Level:
6,731
19
this method is
widely used but
more often with
bi-directional
zeners back to
back, or a bidirectional TVS,
just using a
diode limits the
swing one way
and hence limits
the filtering
action....

post helpful.
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