Avoiding Limbo - Inbetween The Homeless and The Home Life - Dhamma Wheel

28/8/2558
AvoidinglimboinbetweenthehomelessandthehomelifeDhammaWheel
Dhamma Wheel
ABuddhistdiscussionforumontheDhammaoftheTheravada
Skiptocontent
Search
Search Advancedsearch
Avoiding limbo inbetween the homeless and the home life

Forumrules
PostReply
Subscribetopic
Bookmarktopic
Emailtopic
Printview
Postprofileright
Searchthistopic
Search Advancedsearch
35posts
1
2
Next
Avoiding limbo inbetween the homeless and the home life

(#p103480)
Reportthispost(./report.php?f=22&p=103480)
Quote(./posting.php?mode=quote&f=22&p=103480)
(javascript:void(0))
PostbyretrofuturistSunDec12,20107:17am
Greetings,
I thought I might share some personal experience...
If my worldly obligations cease, I will become a bhikkhu. I look forward to it, and about this
intention and my resolve to fulfil it, I have no doubt.
Until such time though, I cannot voluntary release myself from worldly obligations, so I need
to find how best to navigate through them, given circumstances. When I discuss the Dhamma
too much, meditate regularly, study regularly, remain mindful regularly, undertake sense
restraint... I increasingly realise and attune to the inherent emptiness and pointlessness of
worldly activity. Yet, such knowledge does not liberate, because I am trapped in the world. I
cannot turn away from it, as I am obliged and forced to participate in it. Such knowledge,
such Dhamma only leaves me defeated, unmotivated, passive, downtrodden and alienated in
the context of the world of which I must be engaged.
This application of the Dhamma does not lend to ease, because such dispassion and
disenchantment is incompatible with this worldliness... and surely this worldliness does not
lend itself to ease, because of its very worldliness.
However, I tend to find that acceptance of this limbo helps. Application of Dhammic
principles help, so long as they are not framed in some kind of Dhammic "practice"... because
practice implies a resolve to move in a particular direction, along a particular path, and the
direction of the Dhamma as propounded to monastics creates friction with the world I am
obliged to be involved in.
Using what I can, but abandoning intentions of being elsewhere, I am far happier in this
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=6521&sid=45c7dfc67d3772e03099575ac1569cc3
1/11
28/8/2558
"limbo" when I stop regarding it as a limbo... now that I stop fighting against it. It is simply
how it is, and it is actually quite OK... but I cannot afford to be defeated, unmotivated,
passive, downtrodden or alienated, because this will lead to depression. For me it takes a bit
of creativity, a bit of confidence and a bit of "fire up"... what does it take you?
Metta,
Retro.
Top
Re: Avoiding limbo inbetween the homeless and the home life
(#p103482)
PostbyCloudSunDec12,20107:28am
Sympathetic to your plight. I was going to leave the householder life and become a forest
dweller toward the completion of this path, but have come to find that the householder life
is a great challenge and asset to cultivating wholesome states and compassion; insight comes
either here or there, but only when you're looking. It may be of greater benefit even to
remain of this world until it is no longer possible, for the benefit of others as well.
I wish you the best in your endeavors.
Top
(#p103483)
PostbyappicchatoSunDec12,20107:37am
retrofuturist wrote:
It is simply how it is, and it is actually quite OK...
Knowing that 'It is simply how it is', and being comfortable with that, is half the battle (in
this one's estimation)...continued success in the second half...
Top
(#p103485)
PostbyPasikharaSunDec12,20108:06am
If my worldly obligations cease, I will become a bhikkhu.
...
2/11
28/8/2558
Until such time though, I cannot voluntary release myself from worldly
obligations, ...
Worldly obligations won't just cease by themselves. If one doesn't make the volitional act to
end them, they will just keep on going ...
Samsara won't just cease by itself. If one doesn't make the volitional act to end it, it will just
keep on going ...
Top
(#p103488)
PostbyretrofuturistSunDec12,20108:44am
Greetings bhante,
Pasikhara wrote:
Worldly obligations won't just cease by themselves.
Respectfully, that's a comment that's quite easy to make when you do not have a wife, a son,
and an obligation to provide for them through a life of fulltime paid employment.
Metta,
Retro.
Top
(#p103496)
PostbyAlokaSunDec12,201010:21am
For me it takes a bit of creativity, a bit of confidence and a bit of "fire up"...
what does it take you?
Metta,
Retro.
Hi Retro,
3/11
28/8/2558
My circumstances are different because my husband died and I don't have any family.
However I found that a resolution to step away from most social activities and to just focus
on my busy schoolteaching job and my practice, brought a lot of peace and contentment.
Things like disinterest in distractions such as music, TV and entertainments,just happened
naturally. I didn't need to become a nun in order to turn away mentally from excessive
worldly concerns, and improved concentration and patience helped me with my job.
I think its still possible for people with families and jobs to be sincere Dhamma practitioners,
it depends on one's inner commitment rather than one's exterior circumstances. There's also
an opportunity to better understand and improve our family relationships. If we have
commitments, then we can accept them just as they are in a positive way, and then family
life can have an opportunity of becoming more harmonious .
Irrespective of whether we're a lay practioner or a monk or nun, to begin with, we still carry
all our hangups and misperceptions with us wherever we go.
I've found that it's always helpful to have some offline contact with other Buddhists and have
feedback from teachers though, even if its just once monthly or for an occasional weekend
retreat, otherwise there's always a danger of making up things as one goes along and then
getting confused and disheartened.
Lots of good wishes to you and don't lose a sense of humor ! Laughter, especially at oneself,
can be good medicine sometimes !
with metta,
Aloka
Top
(#p103510)
PostbyDiggerSunDec12,201012:38pm
Hi Retro, I'm in the same situation as you (wife, job, house, family, pets, etc). I am choosing
to remain a householder until my wife passes away (which likely will be many decades from
now). I don't think of it like I am in limbo, I think of it like I have a bullet proof jacket that
deflects almost all of the "householder" stress and suffering that I would otherwise be
experiencing.
And it seems to me the Pali Canon supports householders "growing in both ways":
http://www.buddhism.org/Sutras/Agama/An ... aggoe.htm
(http://www.buddhism.org/Sutras/Agama/Anguttara/008akankhavaggoe.htm)
Bhikkhus, while growing in ten ways, the noble disciple grows in nobility and the body, coming
closer to the truth and acquiring the best. What ten?
Grows in fields and resources, wealth and grains, wife and children, slaves and workmen, in
the fourfooted animals, in faith, in virtues, in learnedness, in benevolence and in wisdom.
Bhikkhus, while growing in ten ways, the noble disciple grows in nobility and the body, coming
4/11
28/8/2558
closer to the truth and acquiring the best.

He that grows in wealth, grains, wife, children and the fourfooted,
Becomes wealthy, famous and honoured by relations, friends and the king.
In this world he grows in faith, virtues, wisdom, benevolence and learning
Such discriminative Great beings in this very life, grow both ways.
I am perfectly fine with remaining a householder, taking care of wife and pets, continuing
with my "right livelihood" and still get as far down the path as I can in this lifetime.
Top
(#p103514)
PostbyHooSunDec12,20103:10pm
Using what I can, but abandoning intentions of being elsewhere, I am far

happier in this "limbo" when I stop regarding it as a limbo... now that I stop
fighting against it. It is simply how it is, and it is actually quite OK... but I
cannot afford to be defeated, unmotivated, passive, downtrodden or alienated,
because this will lead to depression. For me it takes a bit of creativity, a bit of
confidence and a bit of "fire up"... what does it take you?
Hi Retro,
I thought Aloka's comments to be particularly relevant, also to my situation which has some
similarities but I have retired which helps some. Still, I have grown kids and a couple of
grandkids, pets, a wife and house, etc. When I began seeing episodes of illwill in traffic as
opportunities, that was the beginning. Over time, I saw the "ball and chain" of samsaric living
less as a burden and more as a fertile field in which to practice.
One thing that helped me was written by Ajahn Chah, that life gives you plenty to practice.
Another was a phrase I read, "Chop wood, carry water," it is all practice. Another was
"practice what is in front of you."
I've considered building a tiny corner of seclusion in my place not perfect, but more than I
have now. Is there a closet you can use, or a corner of the garage that could become your Bo
tree? I want mine to be perfect, of course, but it can't be that way, so I try for what I can
reasonably do.
Hoo
Top
(#p103541)
5/11
28/8/2558
PostbyKenshouSunDec12,20106:53pm
This is a good and pragmatic topic. Though dispassion for worldly obligations is all well and
good, and in all honesty probably not very hard to develop, we've got to be careful not to flip
over and start generating more aversion, which is stressful, right?. I figure a truly non
grasping, thoroughly dispassionate mind could face daily life's humdrum without pushing or
pulling against it, just doing what has to be done without agitation. Though of course that's
way easier to say than do, it's a wobbly balancing act, but hopefully the wobble will level out
as we progress.
Top
(#p103549)
PostbyGoofaholixSunDec12,20107:26pm
However, I tend to find that acceptance of this limbo helps. Application of
Dhammic principles help, so long as they are not framed in some kind of
Dhammic "practice"... because practice implies a resolve to move in a
particular direction, along a particular path, and the direction of the Dhamma
as propounded to monastics creates friction with the world I am obliged to be
involved in.
Using what I can, but abandoning intentions of being elsewhere, I am far
happier in this "limbo" when I stop regarding it as a limbo... now that I stop
fighting against it. It is simply how it is, and it is actually quite OK... but I
cannot afford to be defeated, unmotivated, passive, downtrodden or alienated,
because this will lead to depression. For me it takes a bit of creativity, a bit of
confidence and a bit of "fire up"... what does it take you?
I went through much the same process, my 3 year old is now my main dhamma teacher.
Top
(#p103557)
PostbyAniccaSunDec12,20108:16pm
Awesome thread, Retro!

Many excellent posts!
Avoiding limbo? Don't avoid it embrace it as an opportunity to grow! Aren't all lay people in
this same "limbo"? We "limbo lizards" have a huge, vital role in keeping the Sangha and the
Dhamma alive. Without lay support the Sangha would not exist. Rejoice in the merit you have
6/11
28/8/2558
made, are making and will continue to make.

In my view, the world does not burden me with obligations I burden the world with my
ignorance. Most if not all the many facets of my ignorance can be corrected without
ordaining. It is not that I "cannot" release myself I have chosen to remain a lay person. I am
not trapped by any one other than myself. My wife, my children and my struggle with the
world are all opportunities to grow a blessing this is what is so precious about being born
human. All of life is my main Dhamma teacher.
Why avoid "limbo"? It is an awesome opportunity to grow perhaps not as lean and mean as
ordaining but obviously it fits your stage of development. If I were a betting man, I'd bet the
majority of monks are no less "trapped" in a "limbo" they "cannot" leave than you.
Facing each and every moment of life as a direct interaction with the Dhamma and learning
from both the mistakes made and the wisdom of others is my practice no need for orange
robes yet so very very much can be can be accomplished without the robes.
metta
Top
(#p103567)
Anicca wrote:
Why avoid "limbo"? It is an awesome opportunity to grow
Yes, perhaps labelling it as limbo reveals aversion to it and craving for something else, the
only limbo is the limbo we create with our minds.
Top
(#p103578)
PostbyDavidN.SnyderSunDec12,201010:24pm
That sounds like a wholesome goal and perhaps something to consider for a Bucket List
(http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Bucket_List) ; something that can just be put
aside for now, a todo thing for later.
Anagarika Dharmapala (http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Anagarika_Dharmapala) was
an 8 precept lay man all his life and ordained just in the last few months of his life.
Top
7/11
28/8/2558
(#p103579)
David N. Snyder wrote:

Anagarika Dharmapala (http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?
title=Anagarika_Dharmapala) was an 8 precept lay man all his life and ordained just
in the last few months of his life.
An 8 precept layman can't have sex, so check with your wife if it's ok first.
Top
(#p103581)
PostbyDavidN.SnyderSunDec12,201010:46pm
Goofaholix wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:
Anagarika Dharmapala (http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?
title=Anagarika_Dharmapala) was an 8 precept lay man all his life and
ordained just in the last few months of his life.
Okay.
Top
(#p103600)
Postbyandre9999MonDec13,201012:20am
Goofaholix wrote:
8/11
28/8/2558
If I tell my wife that she'll force me to become an 8 precept layman.

Top
(#p103606)
PostbybodomMonDec13,20101:05am
andrer9999 wrote:
Goofaholix wrote:
An 8 precept layman can't have sex, so check with your wife if it's ok
first.
If I tell my wife that she'll force me to become an 8 precept layman.
Top
(#p103612)
PostbyalanMonDec13,20103:02am
Very relevant question, Retro. I've chosen to avoid the world of family and vocation, and
often wonder how people deal with the stress of it all.
Perhaps you could carve out some time for yourself and get into a cool hobby like Yoga, or
photography? Anything that gets you alone and working on a personal project might be a nice
relief valve.
Be well,
Alan
P.S. Bicycling is also cool. Lots of time to ruminate, contemplate, philosophize...
Top
(#p103613)
9/11
28/8/2558
PostbyalanMonDec13,20103:24am
Ok, I've boiled down my thoughts. What you need, Retro, is a good bike. It's summer now in
Australiaperfect time to get out in the sunshine and exercise. Sun+alone+using your
body=good mental and physical health.
Buy a bike, and then use it!
This won't solve your basic problem of course, but it will sure alleviate it.
Top
(#p103615)
PostbyretrofuturistMonDec13,20104:09am
Greetings,
Heheh... a bike.
I should point out that (at the moment, anyway) I'm neither unhappy nor depressed and that,
as stated in the original post, things are generally OK (though don't get me started on how
generally disappointing Summer has been so far!).
So in a sense there's no problem unless I perceive there's a problem... as per Goofaholix's
insightful post "the only limbo is the limbo we create with our minds." For me, this means
reframing what I do in a way that avoids the ordained/lay dichotomy, and avoids striving for
any destination that is unattainable in present circumstances. It also involves leaving aside
(temporarily?) aspects of the Noble Eightfold Path that do not produce outcomes that are
beneficial from the context of worldly engagement.
Metta,
Retro.
Top
Displaypostsfromprevious: Allposts
Sortby Posttime
Ascending
Go
PostReply
Subscribetopic
Bookmarktopic
Emailtopic
Printview
Postprofileright
35posts
1
2
Next
ReturntoPersonalExperience
Jumpto
Welcome
TERMSOFSERVICE(includingreportingprocedures)
Announcements
Introductions
Suggestionbox
10/11
28/8/2558
ModernTheravda
DiscoveringTheravda
GeneralTheravdadiscussion
Theravdaforthemodernworld
Dhammaduta(Dhammapropagation)
PhenomenologicalDhamma
OrdinationandMonasticLife
StudyGroup
ClassicalMahaviharaTheravda
ClassicalTheravda
Abhidhamma
Pali
TheravdaMeditation
TheravadaMeditation
EthicalConduct
SamathaMeditationandJhana
InsightMeditation
GeneralDhamma
OpenDhamma
OpenDhammaHotTopics
EarlyBuddhism
DhammicStories
ShrineRoom
PersonalExperience
Wellness,Diet&Fitness
Lounge
NonEnglishResources
Who is online
Usersbrowsingthisforum:stalker,websat11and2guests
GoogleSaffron,TheravadaSearchEngine
PoweredbyphpBBForumSoftwarephpBBLimited
GZIP:Off
DhammaWheel.comisassociatedwithDharmaWheel.net,DhammaWiki.com,andTheDhamma.com
11/11

Avoiding Limbo - Inbetween The Homeless and The Home Life - Dhamma Wheel

Încărcat de

Informații document

Titlu original

Drepturi de autor

Formate disponibile

Partajați acest document

Partajați sau inserați document

Opțiuni de partajare

Vi se pare util acest document?

Este necorespunzător acest conținut?

Drepturi de autor:

Formate disponibile

Avoiding Limbo - Inbetween The Homeless and The Home Life - Dhamma Wheel

Încărcat de

Drepturi de autor:

Formate disponibile

28/8/2558

Avoiding limbo inbetween the homeless and the home life

Avoiding limbo inbetween the homeless and the home life

closer to the truth and acquiring the best.

Using what I can, but abandoning intentions of being elsewhere, I am far

Awesome thread, Retro!

made, are making and will continue to make.

David N. Snyder wrote:

If I tell my wife that she'll force me to become an 8 precept layman.

If I tell my wife that she'll force me to become an 8 precept layman.

S-ar putea să vă placă și