The Best Argument For Atheism - Religious Criticism PDF

10/29/2014
The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism
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Religious Criticism Thoughts on Modern Religion

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The Best Argument For Atheism?

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Below is what I consider the best argument for lacking belief in any religions or gods. What makes this
http://www.religiouscriticism.com/beliefs/the-best-argument-for-atheism/
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argument so powerful is that it covers any religion, and best of all, I dont make the argument, you do.
How strong the argument is really depends on how honest you can be with yourself. In fact if youre a
theist, you probably already know this argument, but have various ways to avoid facing it. So if youre
ready, lets go through the argument as an experiment. The only one you have to answer to is yourself.
Youll know if youre being honest with yourself or not.
No god exists or existed.
submit
So, no prophets or sons of any god. Get over it. Claim your own life!
reddit
Lets imagine were sitting together having a relaxed, honest and open discussion about religion. On the
table is a huge stack of white index cards and on each index card is one of thousands of different
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religions, gods, belief systems, along with arguments for believing in that particular religion or god.
Maybe a card has a current religion, or maybe it has a older religion that no one believes in any more, or
is largely forgotten. It doesnt matter the point is that theyre all here in this great big stack, except for
the ones that you believe in you religions not in this stack.
61 One at a time, I draw up a card and I read you the religion and god and arguments for why you should
believe in it and you respond with the reasons you dismiss the arguments and why you dont believe the
religion or god, and Ill write the responses down.
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So we go through every argument ever made for every other religion, their gods, supposed holy books,
witnesses, miracles, profits, saviours, prophecies, testimonies, answered prayers, faith claims, affects for
good, archeological support; whatever the argument, we go through it. We note all your counter
arguments and dismissals on the back on each card.
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It wont take long before we realize that there is a pattern. Your argument for dismissing one religion will
likely be similar to a previous answer. We wont need to write anything down any more we can just
refer back to a previous argument.
Once we get to the bottom of the stack, I take another card out of my pocket. This card has your religion
and god on them, and all the arguments that you think support them. We go through that card and they
are refuted referring back to arguments you made before, just as we did with all the previous cards.
The fact is that youre an atheist in regards to thousands of other religions and gods. You already know
everything there is to know about dismissing religious arguments. Youre an expert already. You
rationally dismiss thousands of other religions or gods just like any atheist does. The difference is you
dont turn that critical side of your mind to your own beliefs.
This realization is all anyone needs to know to recognize their faith doesnt stand up any more. Its just
question of how honest you can be with yourself.
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jason
a year ago
Ok I just want to state that I do not believe in God and have a good reasons. You see as an
Atheists I believe in things that are provable like gravity and the atom and will accept any thing
that has proof in its existence. Now can you prove to me that God exists if so I will gladly
convert. But you see I don't have to prove to you anything because I I only believe things that
have proof in them. It is called the burden of proof you have to prove to me there is a God by I
don't know askind him to cure cancer. Now if your God appears before me an cures cancer
then I will gladly believe in him. A better example will be if you go buy a car. The car dealer
telles you he has this awesome car that goes fast can fly and can go back in time. Now you
think that is cool right but are you just going to take his word for it and buy the car. Of course
not because it sounds to good to be true. So you ask for proof the car can do this. Now the
dealer gets insulted and tells you that it work you just have to believe it will work. Are you going
to buy the car now. I would not. Now the dealer gets everyone in the car dealership to tell you
that it definetly works and to just buy it. Are you going to. I don't know about you but it still
sounds to good to be true. Now what if the dealer let you drive the car let you fly it in the air and
you to go back in time and see dinosaurs. Convinced no; I would be. You see that is the burden
of proof in action. You proove to me he exist not through one time miracles or the already
explanable natural world and I will jump right on your bus. You see as an atheists everything I'm
defending is has been prooven to be true like gravity or the shape of the earth or has strong
see more
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Jonathon Brownback > jason
9 months ago
We all have basic philosophical presuppositions about the world that we have to justify,
whether we are atheist, theist, or what have you.
True, an atheist doesn't have to justify that a god exists, but they do have a number of
other problems. Namely: Logic, Moral Law, the Validity of Thought, (that's a name I just
came up with [ :D :P ] for an old argument) and the existence of the Universe. Refer to
my post below for the last one.
I'll post later about the others, when I have time.
Reply Share
Cody Douds > jason
10 months ago
I would refer you to any of William

Lane Craig's work. Predominately his work with the
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I would refer you to any of William Lane Craig's work. Predominately his work with the
Ontological Argument. Glad to see that there is an open-minded Atheist out there. The
Ontological, Cosmological, Moral, Transcendental, and the Teleological Arguments are
meant to prove there is a God. They do not prove whose God (Islam or Christian for
example). In your search for real truth, given you are still search, which is one of the
most noble journeys one can find themselves in, I urge you to study rather heavily in to
these topics. Realize that most of the atheist arguments fail due to an undermining of
God's character. (ex. Can God make a rock too heavy for him to lift?) Now, this seems
coherent, but with an understanding of who God is, not even who God is but who He
must be, will lead one to a rational conclusion. By definition God exist outside of space
and time. To pick a rock up one needs time and space. Time, for the rock to move from
A to B, and of course space for there to be a rock in the first place. Therefore this
argument is invalid because it undermines who God MUST be and it equivocates two
things that have absolutely no relation. If somebody were to state this argument against
me I would reply, "What sound does the color orange make?" Two totally different
things. They have no relation.
Understand God's character that is the most important thing. I would love to get your
email so that I may reference you to different Authors or sources. You seem like a
reasonable Atheist, which I cannot tell you how much I admire, and realizing that there
is a being which transcends all we know is a very humbling experience. You may find
yourself in a whole new world. I would be happy to email you back and forth.
cvdouds@gmail.com

Ashes
Reply Share
2 years ago
So it is absurd to have a god in the sky throwing thunderbolts and a god of the sea
commanding waves but it is NOT absurd to have a god impregnate a virgin or a man to rise
from the dead? Oh, okay.
5
Hawk
Reply Share
5 years ago
This is pretty much somed up in a quote by Stephen Roberts:

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you
understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss
yours.
5
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Kareem > Hawk
2 years ago
The problem with that quote is that the originator believes that there is a god but perhaps
is confused on what atheism is.
1
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Brandon > Kareem
2 years ago
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10/29/2014
Kareem, I think you are confused by the quote. Perhaps it is the math.
1 god -1 god =0 gods
2
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Travis > Brandon
2 years ago
That quote has a flaw however and so does this article. You can't believe
in a god and be an atheist at the same time because atheism is the
rejection that there are any dietys. I know there is a god, just look at the
miracles of nature as evidence and any rational man would come to the
same conclusion. I am not atheist, obviously. I have faith that christianity
is the right religion not because I was raised as a christian or because i
picked a religion randomly. I have faith because i researched the
evidence and because no other religion has rung true in my heart as
christianity has with being selfless. You must not only debate what is the
right religion, but whether or not we were created also. I also agree with
what papa justice said below. i recommend reading C.S. Lewis' Mere
Christianity and Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ.
1
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keziarhh > Travis
a month ago
Do you have any proof that Jesus came back from the death?
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callmesteve > Travis
a year ago
I believe that Jesus is God's Son and came to die for our sins, but rose
again, defeating death, and now we have the opportunity to accept His
sacrifice.
With that said, I want all u guys to pay attention to this (theists and
atheists)
Lets say I believe there is a God who saves us. Lets say you don't. Now
some day, sooner or later, we're both gonna kick the bucket. And if I'm
wrong and you're right, now we're both just gonna rot 6 feet under.
But lets look at it the other way too (cuz that's what reasonable people
do). What if I'm right and you're wrong. Now ull spend forever in Hell, and
I'll be in Heaven
So my question to you: what have u got to lose? Here, I'll answer it for
you. "Freedom". But lemme follow that up: do u feel free? Because I
know that I do
I used to doubt the existence of God as well. But I was present with this
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keziarhh > callmesteve
a month ago
What i gotta lose? I will lose my logic and humanism value. Besides,
most Christians judge and hate LGBT while I'm not.
do you even have any scientifical proof of Jesus?
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BeeGood > Travis
2 years ago
@Mik73. Or is it because mankind truly believes that he is superior to

God and that he doesn't need a God in his life; he can get by without
Him? If we look at the way mankind is managing this world it would be
hard to go along with that.
Reply Share
Mik73 > Travis
2 years ago
Travis, were your parents religious? If so, what religion were they?
If you are similar to 99.99% of other religious people, your 'chosen'
religion probably bears a striking similarity to that of your parents.
Funny how that works.
Of course your heritage could be from some other religion, but that
doesn't mitigate the fact that using 'nature' as 'evidence' for a deity is
simply not rational and based on pure emotionality. You need to believe
in a God, so you do. Simple as that.
Nature is not a miracle in the literal sense. It's a perfectly logical
consequence of many natural processes (physics, chemistry,
magnetism, gravity, etc) working together over long periods of time.
You can fall back on the tired old response, "Well who created those
laws, then?". And I would give you the only truthful answer: We are not
smart enough, yet, to positively determine how and why the Universe
and it's laws exist as they do. Human knowledge has limits, but those
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Cj > Brandon
2 years ago
You are confused my friend, not Kareem. The fact you can make a
mathematical equation based on God , tells me you know he exists, but
you'd rather subtract him from the equation.
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Tanya > Cj
a year ago
Why is it when someone has a disbelief in something others has to try

and point out an "assumed obvious", when they themselves knows no
more that the person with a lack of belief. The belief in god is one of faith
not one of knowing. With "God" it is believing is seeing not seeing is
believing. Key words in this equation "believing", another words you
"know" no more than the atheist does. An atheist has never seen or felt
"God" therefore may know a little more. It all depends on your own
perspective.
1
mikeburke
Reply Share
a year ago
If you want to use "nature" and its magnificence as proof of god, are you speaking about the
Christian or modern god that is omnipotent, all knowing and supposedly loving? Or, a god that
created the beginning and let it roll (and if god did this....why?) An honest person examining
empirical evidence in nature would likely recede to AT LEAST an agnostic perspective
(probably the only valid way to approach the subject in the first place). If the magnificence of
nature is proof of God, then the brutality of nature (off the top of my head; viruses, spina bifida,
birth defects, down syndrome, on and on and on) should also be proof, or at least a
GIAGANTIC flashing red stop-belief light against the idea of a merciful, loving creator. If one
travels the world, escaping the cocoon of western lifestyle, much of the world speaks
AGAINST a loving god, or creator god. Forget about the fact that there are no real "proofs" that
god did this. Certainly a "god" can make it abundantly clear who he/she/it is and EXACTLY
what he/she/it expects or desires from the creation. Most "true religions" have books written
with much heresay, no eye witnesses, no physical evidence, and more than anything
else......CONTRADICTIONS run through all these books! The list goes on and on. "It's in the
bible" is not a scientific answer to the question of god, no god. "the universe is simply to
complex to have been created randomly" is also not valid evidence for god but mere
sentimentality and wishful thinking for thumb suckers. The books mentioned to "prove" god
(Mere Christianity, etc) do not scientifically prove anything. There is not a drop of science, or
even responsible modern logic or critical thinking in those arguments. god could clear this up at
ANY time obviously, but seems to be preoccupied with other things (perhaps monitoring "sin"
and taking notes throughout the universe!). Ridiculous.
2
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Jonathon Brownback > mikeburke
9 months ago
Evil as evidence against a god won't work, because you're assuming a priori that there
is a such a thing as an objective moral law (standard) against which Nature as it
currently stands violates, otherwise why bring up that complaint? If it's not breaking any
objective standards, then what's wrong with Nature? At that point your are then only
saying that it "offends" you, personally....but doesn't objectively violate anything.
So, do you *really* want to admit to there being an objective moral standard? (that
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So, do you *really* want
to admit to there being an objective moral standard? (that
Nature, "red in tooth and claw", violates?)
Also, how so is ordered complexity not a valid argument? Order and complexity
generally don't just come into being from disorder and chaos, randomly, like Atheists
claim the Universe did. Can you give me one single solitary example of ordered
complexity arising (randomly, by chance, no less) from disordered chaos. ONE
example, and then it starts becoming scientific, and not a grown-up fairy tale. If it's not
based on observable FACT, it's not scientific, period. The "fact" that the Universe (and
everything in it) arose by random chance from nothing (not even nothing, less than
nothing...) is not fact, it's a priori Assumption. It's a Presupposition. We all have them,
(after all, in order to even have a debate, you have to start off assuming the validity of
Logic, along with a bunch of other things, like the linearity of time, laws of nature, the
fact that you actually exist and are not just a brain in a jar somewhere, etc etc) and I
don't particularly blame atheists for having them, but I wish they would stop stating them
as Fact when they're anything but.

HitchLovesYou
Reply Share
3 years ago
Yeah, Dawkins echoes that "We're both atheists, I'm just an atheists for one god further" stuff.
And fellow insignificant product of evolution, it stirs those who are oblivious to the fact that, well,
there have been 1000s of religions, and there's is no different.
2
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Jean Paul Datuin
2 years ago
I've been a long theist but all I can say is you have a good point that definitely every theist
cannot turn down. I'm still open to all informations as long as it leads to the truth. Thanks for the
article!
1
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Matthew Michaud
3 years ago
Sorry, this is so bad it's hard to respond. I've heard this similar argument before listening to
Dawkins and Hitchens speak in the past; and in my humble Christian opinion, this makes
atheists look bad.
You could literally apply this same logic to any theoretical scenerio (religious or otherwise) in
which there are multiple possibilities; multiple players with a wager; and only one scenerio can
be correct.
Your premise is completely incorrect as well; that all the answers on the cards would be
replicated or similar. I would have to try to be coordial in explaining how bad it looks (to anyone
who is not a commited athiest) when you try to compare God of the Bible to Thor.
Mythological gods were attributed to unexplained events that inspired awe or frightened people
etc. The Bible never claims that there is a god up in the clouds who throws lightning bolts or
makes thunder rumble. Nor does it claim there is a god of the sea who stirs the waves with a
big rod or such. Interestingly enough, all of the other religions at the time the Bible was written
did cliam this; even the ones with supposed (and completely absurdly cliamed) simalrities.
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did cliam this; even the ones with supposed (and completely absurdly cliamed) simalrities.
The claim of the BIble however is that God is the creator of all of nature, has power over it, and
has created a human beings as spearate from the rest of His creation and desires to love and
commune with them based on their free will to reciprocate the same. It does not assign a god to
given weather or solar entities and events.
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Mik73 > Matthew Michaud
2 years ago
Basically what you are saying is that the sophistication of human religion changes over
time. The earlier paganistic gods of river and tree simply became too simplistic when
faced with mountain human achievements in linquistics, philosophy, social organization,
economies, and so forth.
The modern religions arose as an inevitable consequence of a need for more
complicated, nuanced approaches to social and civil matters.
As our language, writing and mobility progresssed, so did our ability to communicate
with 'those others' over that hill and across that sea. You can see the influence of many
philosophies, religious practices and mythologies at the heart of every major modern
religion, only gussed up with more flowerly prose and codified rituals.
You are correct in that the specific reasons for dismissing any given religion may
change, it doesn't alter the basic formula:
Human language + Human imagination + Human Interaction = Every religious (and
social) belief, story, song, psalm, practice, action ever devised.
No actual metaphysical agents are required to give rise to the creation thereof in the
human mind. From simple cave drawings written by hairy potmakers to simple stories
about Harry Potters, the fanciful and metaphorical expressions of our everyday
existence are simply a part of the beauty and wonder of humanity.
3
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Ashes > Matthew Michaud
2 years ago
The birth of man was no more a miracle than the birth of an octopus. We are no more
special than any other creature. That is the kind of thinking that got us into this mess to
begin with. "We are above all other creatures so nothing can happen to us." We even
throw these types of ideologies onto other people. The bible has anti-semitism.
Christianity is ridiculous because you guys are always taking things from the Bible that
works to your advantage but when you do not like something it says or something is
contradictory, you ignore it. The Bible is no more than a scare tactic and an opiate for
the people. Just because millions of people believe in an imaginary friend does not
mean he is real.
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Kareem
2 years ago
Many atheists, especially new ones try to dismiss God which is really the crux of their
problems. God speaks and deals with them too but they choose to dismiss it. As one practices
this over time, you will get the point to where God's attempt to relate with you are not
recognizable anymore. It's usually the result of an "unanswered" prayer that brings about lack
of belief - just human condition. God still seeks these people too.
Reply Share
imrangr1
a year ago
Asking for proof of God has always sounds strange to me. I wonder: How can there be a
complete proof of an entity of whom by very defintion is unprovable.
A simple analogy is how can 'infinite' be quantified in mathematics because by definition it is
unquantifiable.
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Cody Douds > imrangr1
10 months ago
That is why some theist hold that the Atheist has the burden of proof. Certainly no sane
atheist is willing to go that route unless extremely educated.
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Jerry > Cody Douds
10 months ago
No, that would make no sense for *any* atheist. It is logically impossible to
prove the nonexistence of something. Consequently, the burden remains with
the believers. I'll point out, those atheists who claim there *absolutely is no* god
(or higher being, or spaghetti monster, etc.) are in a worse place than theists
because they not only can't prove their claim (with evidence at hand) they can
*never* do so.
1
mickar
Reply Share
6 months ago
"Does it mean, if you dont understand something, and the community of physicists dont
understand it, that means God did it?
Is that how you want to play this game? Because if it is, heres a list of things in the past that
the physicists at the time didnt understand [and now we do understand] [...].
If thats how you want to invoke your evidence for God, then God is an ever-receding pocket of
scientific ignorance thats getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on - so just be
ready for that to happen, if thats how you want to come at the problem."
Reply Share
MariusDejess
8 months ago
Let me ask the author, does the universe have a beginning?

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As you know that scientists tell us the universe has a beginning some 13.8 billion years ago,
and you as an atheist claims to be scientific, then you must infer from the universe which has a
beginning to the fact or scientific conclusion that the universe has a cause outside itself.
Let me read your reaction to my message.
Marius de Jess
Reply Share
Shimbabwe
8 months ago
With all due respect, this is a terribly misconceived argument. The reason is because it only
addresses beliefs, which are not causally associated with reality. No matter how strongly you
believe that God does or does not exist has nothing to say about the truth or falsity of the
proposition, God exists. This epistemological question has only superficial relevance.
The same argument could be applied to science. We could simply be wrong about many things
that we purport to know. Just as in science, we could apprehend knowledge about God -- if He
exists -- gradually, in the same way that we come to know more about the physical world.
Just because many people have -- or had -- beliefs about God or gods, has very little to do with
whether a God exists. This is what philosophers call the genetic fallacy. Now, with respect to
those other gods, it is impossible that more than one true God exists, by definition.
Other gods are simply mischaracterizations, distortions, or misrepresentations of the one true.
So, there is no need for the theist to be an atheist with respect to those, or even to consider
them at all. This argument -- or one very similar -- is going to be in my top 10 worst arguments
for atheism. So far, it is number one.
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MariusDejess
9 months ago
So, there is no God, the universe is all there is.

But the universe has a beginning, that is established by science.
Let me have an exchange of logic with atheists, where does the universe come from.
You will say that it came forth from nothing.
That is against logic, for if anything at all has a beginning, and the universe according to
science has a beginning, then it has to be from some entity as its source of the beginning of its
existence.
Yes, I have read it many times, you will tell me that we don't know, meaning you do not want to
think logically.
Anyway, let me see how you react to my inquiry in this comment.
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Mike Dalgleish
9 months ago
The fact there are thousands of beliefs concerning God does not exclude the possibility that
only one of those beliefs is true. If there is one God, it would make sense He would provide a
way to understand the One Way. If there are multiple ways to God (reference the Coexist
bumper sticker), that would breed confusion. God is not a God of confusion, but rational. Your
argument fails for the simple reason that it does not include the possibility that One religion
might, in fact, be true.
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Jonathon Brownback
9 months ago
This only works if each objection applies equally to the Affirmatives religion.
Quite an assumption. What if there is good, reasonable evidence for a god, at least. What then?
Wouldn't it then be more reasonable to just assume that there must be some religion out there
that has valid reasons?
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Vince
a year ago
Given that the Universe exists

Given that I did not always exist
Given that I exist now
Therefore there is a creator
Given that I have consciousness
Given that I have free will
Therefore I can choose to search for my creator
Given that love exists
I believe that the creator is loving and I believe that I have been successful in my search.
As for the argument for Atheism - Any religion that believes in a loving creator is compatible
with my faith. I am only familiar with a few religions (Judaism, Islam, Christianity) I chose one
but the others are not incompatible with my beliefs.
I would have difficulty understanding logic not founded on the six givens I propose but I
certainly do not expect everyone to come to my conclusions.
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Brendan Liam
a year ago
This is a prime example of why atheists should quit using the word "religion" so carelessly, it
also brings their arguments down to a christian level-requiring a framework of unspoken and
untrue assumptions.
For starters, atheism just means "Lack
of faith in gods".
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For starters, atheism just means "Lack of faith in gods".

Nothing more, nothing less. That said, many religions are atheist in nature. Buddhism for
example. So how is it that all these anti-theism arguments think they could apply to religion?
Only by dishonesty. Further, even Abrahamic religions alone usually fail some generalization
by an atheist. Judaism has very little in common with Christiantiy for example, the latter claims
the same monotheist god, even though it's been compartmentalized. Much less can they make
a statement about religion that would pass a minority of them as accurate.
Christianity, is christianity. Religion is not christianity, it is religion. So if you mean christianity
and your argument only considers christianity, then say "christianity" not "religion". Or someone
like me may point out how similar atheists are to christians, especially christian atheists.... they
really just drop jesus and keep the rest.
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Marius de Jess
a year ago
Well, addressing the author of the best argument [ his own ] for atheism, you are just into
refuting all religions including the Christian faith.
You want Christians to reject their faith because according to you they reject all other faiths, so
to be consistent they must also reject their own.
But, do you know that for Christians it is not religion that is important to them, but the existence
of God.
We Christians do not deny the existence of God in other religions if that God is the creator of
heaven and earth and everything with a beginning.
What we care to do with peoples in other religions is to bring them to Jesus Christ, in addition to
what they already accept for their God, namely, that He is the creator of heaven and earth and
everything with a beginning.
You have confused religion with the existence of God.
See, that is your confusion, and I hope you see it, God is what Christians are all about, not their
religion as one among many.
What you should do is to bring forth your best argument against God in His role as the creator
of heaven and earth and everything with a beginning.
Are you the owner of this blog or whatever, in which case I commend you for not deleting my
first post here, and now this present one I hope you will not delete it either.
Marius de Jess
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Jason > Marius de Jess
a year ago
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10/29/2014
If you sat down just the Summa Theologica, not even the man who wrote it, this
argument would not work. No where in it does it refute other religions, but it never
refutes itself.
Sorry that I have yet to find that atheists have even an argument at all that can't be
ripped apart with a couple of statements.
Sure, arguably neither of us have scientific proof, but we have hints while you have
nothing.
Reply Share
Hoss > Marius de Jess
a year ago
@Marius de Jess
The author did not claim this was the best argument for atheism, but instead poses a
question that it may be the "best" argument for atheism to change the mind of a theist.
The evidence for the nonexistence of god is itself nonexistent, as I believe you are
aware. Although if I were to bet, you are unaware how difficult it is to prove the
nonexistence of anything. Where is the proof that bigfoot or the lochness monster is not
real? At most what could be said is there is no empirical evidence that either exist, and
there is a mountain of evidence that makes their existence unlikely. I believe in neither.
But to be intellectually honest, I must acknowledge my belief of their nonexistence is
tentative at best, and I must follow the evidence where it leads, regardless of prior belief.
The reasons I just mentioned about why I do not believe in bigfoot or nessy are why I do
not believe in a god. At most you can say that I deny empirical evidence of gods
existence(which I can prove is not the case), but my conclusions are justifiable as my
reasoning is sound.
I should also remind you that faith is highly erroneous as well as a non-sequitor. Faith is
see more

Marius de Jess
Reply Share
a year ago
I ask atheists:
Since you say that you don't accept God, gods, goddesses, deities, divinities, etc.
Suppose you just choose the best God Who is the creator of everything with a beginning,
instead of bringing in so many characters.
If you don't accept the concept of God as the creator of everything with a beginning, then tell us
what God you do not believe in, for it is irrational and in effect crazy to not believe in something
you don't have any concept of.
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Now, if you accept any concept of God but less than the concept that God is the creator of
everything with a beginning, then you are too naive, because anything that is less than the
creator of everything with a beginning is not to be taken seriously: only that God Who is the
creator of everything with a beginning is the God to be taken seriously by critical intelligent
mankind.
If you have any objections against such a concept of God, namely, the creator of everything
with a beginning, then bring them forth and I will discuss with you why the concept of a being
who is the creator of everything with a beginning is absolutely reasonable and valid, for it is the
roadmap by which we will go forth to seek for Him in the universe.
The way I see arguments of atheists against God, they are all nothing but dodging from the
concept of God as the creator of everything with a beginning.
Marius de Jess
Reply Share
Marius de Jess
2 years ago
Lagoni, you say in your first words: "Here are 2 distinct lines of evidence that show that Jesus
did not even exist as a person on earth."
You see, you go right straight on to Jesus, that is a wrong, useless, empty, irrelevant approach.
First, argue that God does not exist as the creator and operator of the universe, because if God
is not the creator and operator of the universe, no amount of Jesus and Bible is going to mean
anything to any reasoning human being.
You are dodging already from the start in dwelling on Jesus.
Before anything else, atheists must not dodge and quibble, first go for the jugular, prove that
there is no God creator and operator of the universe.
And don't dodge and quibble talking about because there is evil in the world there is no good
God?
Why bother with an evil God or a good God, first prove no God creator and operator of the
universe exists.
see more
Reply Share
stunner > Marius de Jess
2 years ago
One problem with your argument is that you can make it about any supernatural or
otherwise totally unproven phenomenon.
For instance, and I'm sorry to so crudely paraphrase your point: "So you say that
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For instance, and I'm sorry to so crudely paraphrase your point: "So you say that
unicorns do not exists? Do you even know what a unicorn is? Please tell us what you
think a unicorn is, without dodging or quibbling. Aha, so you see? Your idea of a unicorn
is incomplete. Clearly you have not done sufficient research on unicorns. That you
would refuse to believe in unicorns without studying them, shows how closed minded
you are."
Dude, it's bullshit. YOU believe in something. Everyone defines their god differently.
Saying there is one correct way to define a supernatural creator god is so arrogant. Tell
us what you believe, and then show us the proof. Or else, yeah, your god goes in the
pile with the 10,000 other gods I've never seen any proof of.
And, the majesty of nature is majestic enough. That we have a naturalistic description of
how it all came about is beautiful. Adding god where you come to the limits of your
understanding of that majesty is a fallacy.
2
J.R. Lagoni
Reply Share
2 years ago
Below is just one example of a religion based on falsities, that anyone can understand IF THEY
STUDY WELL ENOUGH. (This means studying objectively and fully, and studying what those
who disagree with you reason to be so):
************************************************************************************************
Here are 2 distinct lines of evidence that show that Jesus did not even exist as a person on
earth. He was madeup as a man at a later date. In earliest Christianity, he was more like the
"Holy Ghost" of today - a spirit but not a person on earth at anytime. One early Christian sect
made him a historical person, they became very evangelical and powerful, and took over all of
Christianity.
1. There were many historians, and there are still many historical records, from about 2000
years ago. If you study that period's primary sources (written at that time), it becomes obvious
that Jesus did not exist. Yet read the book of Mark, it portrays Jesus as definitively famous and yet the records don't show it to be so! Some church officials have rewritten small portions
of historical documents to try to include some reference to a historical Jesus, but even these
are few and obvious. IF YOU STUDY THE PERIOD WELL - it is just simply obvious that the
book of Mark cannot be true in its portrayal of Jesus as a famous person within his region. The
see more
Reply Share
Marius de Jess
2 years ago
I see the author of this argument the best one from atheists is into dodging and quibbling.
First, you should define each god, or at least the God that Christian theists believe to exist.
Okay, without further ado, do you know all the gods that you deny including the God of
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Christian theists?
Unless you do this first you are into conflating all gods as essentially the same all gods you
deny to exist, including the God of Christian theists.
Now, if you say that there are simply so many gods that you deny all of them, it is physically
impossible for you to describe every one of them, then just give us the information of what is
the God of Christian theists, and we will go from there to discuss why you don't have any
argument against this God existing, unless you don't think on experience and reason from
there, but you are into dodging and quibbling.
So, dear atheist, will you take the challenge to give readers here the information you have of the
God of the Christians, what is His role in the universe the one which is studied by scientists
and where we all humans are residing in?
see more

Joseph
Reply Share
2 years ago
I am Catholic and while I respectfully disagree with the atheistic position taken by the author of
this article, he brings up a good point, which is this: we were all given human reason and it is
our task to use it as a tool to come to the correct conclusions about religion.
We believe not out of fear or guilt, but out of love.
Stemming from that, we may disagree intellectually with a person's belief system, but we can
never pass judgement on them unless they are breaking Natural Law (a Catholic concept)
which means they are abusing people, killing people, or otherwise causing harm to other
people.
Jesus even says something to this effect- that we will be judged by the stick with which we
measure OTHERS.
So the correct answer to this index card riddle is not to argue that the evidence for your religion
(I believe it's Catholicism)
is vastly different from evidence for other religions
(although I do believe that to be the case historically in the case of the Catholic Church).
see more
Reply Share
brad > Joseph
2 years ago
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When
you understand why you dismiss all these other possible gods, you will understand why
I dismiss yours.
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I dismiss yours.
1
Reply Share
Mik73 > Joseph
2 years ago
Why are you a Catholic? Were you raised that way? Have you ever wondered what
religion you would be if your parents were Muslim?
You say you believe not out of fear, but out of love. I think you believe because human
children have a remarkable propensity to follow their parents lead in many things. You
were raised a particular way, and you show natural human loyalty to your parents, your
fellow Catholics and so forth.
None of this has anything to do with Gods, Godesses, Heavens or what have you, and
everything to do with human psychology. People make up such fanciful reasons for why
they 'believe' in one thing or another, when the truth is so much more mundane, honest,
and frankly, obvious.
I'm an atheist because no religion ever created can offer any proof whatsoever of the
fantastical creatures, places, events and behaviors they describe. I walk in a bookstore
and I see clear as day the width and breadth of human imagination. The why and how
religions are created and propogated is thus as trivial as it is banal: Human brains acting
with, on or in reaction to other human brains. No more, no less.
Forget something so limited and singular as a bible. History itself is rife with examples of
religious and policial indoctrination, intimidation, brutality, the laws of coercion,
propoganda, "believe in this or else", etc etc. That offers a much more honest account
of how and why populations believe in what they believe.

dan
Reply Share
3 years ago
answer: this is simply the confusion of the esoteric and exoteric domains. It would be similar to
arguing evolution is false because hundreds of different scientific groups, both within and
between their respective fields, each have different explanations for how it works exactly.
Despite these differences, we know of course that there are fixed principles that remain at the
centre of each theory and the differences or outright 'contradictions' are only on the periphery,
so to speak. (See for eg. http://escholarship.usyd.edu.a...
Furthermore, Islam has the advantage of answering the question even from an exoteric
perspective. In Islam it is held that human messengers have been repetitively sent through
history testifying to the reality of the One God. Naturally, different people 'clothe' the message
according to their own character (eg. think of language). The message is also suscpeitble of an
indefinite variety of corruptions due to human nature; thus new messengers continue to be sent
to re-centralize the exoteric with the permanant principles.
Reply Share
John
3 years ago
Dismissing all other religions would be done because of a lack of knowledge. There are
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Dismissing all other religions would be done because of a lack of knowledge. There are
thousands of "other" religions for several reasons :
- Lack of knowledge : Only one civilization (jewish) recieved the oracles of God and so could
truely understand his will at the time. God clearly gave and gives attention to all others
worshiping the divinity (Malachi 1.11).
-Self satisfying : men make religions to please themself (sex, money, fame, power), causing
alot of damage.
-Prophet conflict : Jews, Christians, Muslims, Mormons, etc, clearly come from the same
religious book, its all about deciding which is the last true prophete.
But all religions have coherence in that they say man is worth living, a moral is needed, goals
are to be achieved on earth.
Which brings us to the biggest incoherence of atheism : men have no spirits, they are just flesh,
life is just chemical reaction. Which makes them as worthless as rocks, dust, and dirt. So any
argument for an atheist to respect another man is useless, since another man is like dirt in his
logic, making murder not a bigger deal then breathing. And that makes atheism worst then
Nazism, because they would at least value some type of men and considere some murders
like immoral and forbidden.
see more
Reply Share
Tanya > John
a year ago
Did not God kill? Just saying God has shown his wrath throughout the Holy Bible. Lets
talk about that for a moment. I live in the United States where Christian ideology is great,
most people do not buy into all the religious bs, they are just used to it being not socially
excepted. Kinda like marrying more than one wife. Isn't that in the Bible something God
accepted, although it is shunned now. As much as Atheist have a lack of beliefs,
Christianity can not make up their mind as to what is right. How can you believe in
something that is continually changing but is supposed to be all knowing! "HEY GET IT
RIGHT THE FIRST TIME IF YOU AREALL KNOWING"
Reply Share
Phil. > John
2 years ago
First, I want to tell you why I'm replying to this. I am a lover of constructive, objective
(but not necessarily unemotional), and reasonable knowledge. I enjoy seeing others
discover almost as much as I enjoy discovering. So, this response is not to prove you
wrong, necessarily, but to suggest a flaw or an un-parallel idea to contemplate. Maybe
you change your mind, maybe you don't. It's okay with me, either way.
I would like to address each of your points.
You stated that a kind of lack of knowledge stems from the ignorance of oracles. I would
counter this with the existence of other oracles (those of the Greeks come to mind). To
the pagan Greeks, their oracles were the only tellers of truth and of true divinity. The
essayist highlights this idea. How can you refute Greek or some other oracles without
reasonably questioning the authenticity of yours? Keep in mind that truths can be told
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reasonably questioning the authenticity of yours? Keep in mind that truths can be told
with lies. This might help the "reason"-ing part of that.
It is true that those religions (Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Mormonism) all share
some prophets and often disagree on which one is the "last" one. It is also true, carrying
the idea I just introduced, that other religions lay outside the range of those prophets,
such as Greek, Norse, and Roman religions (sorry to reuse an example, but it readily
comes to mind). Hinduism and Buddhism have their own prophets as well. By saying
this, I mean to indicate that "it" doesn't only come down to choosing between the
see more
Reply Share
Brandon > John
3 years ago
I think the fact that we understand our place in the universe makes us value life even
more than a theist ever could. You believe, and will do good because you are told if you
don't you will go to hell, an Atheist does good because he understands that his civic
duty is to help others, and not condemn them because they are of a different race,
sexual orientation or otherwise. Hitler was a catholic who believed that Jews were the
reason for Germany's problems, and because the Jews didn't even believe in Jesus'
existence. I think I as an Atheist care more about others than you would ever allow
yourself, I don't think the fact that we are chemical reactions we are worthless, it makes
me embrace the natural side of life, and appreciate my place in the universe. In worth a
rock could never be compared to a human being, I think a simple bacteria is worth more
than the moon because the chemical reactions that required it's existence go way
further that that of the moon. Your way of seeing things logically, and connecting things
like Atheism (a religious view) and Nazism (a political view) shows how little you
understand the world.
Reply Share
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Jonathon Brownback > jason

Cody Douds > jason

I would refer you to any of William

Lane Craig's work. Predominately his work with the

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

This is pretty much somed up in a quote by Stephen Roberts:

Kareem > Hawk

Brandon > Kareem

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

Travis > Brandon

keziarhh > Travis

callmesteve > Travis

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

keziarhh > callmesteve

BeeGood > Travis

@Mik73. Or is it because mankind truly believes that he is superior to

Mik73 > Travis

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

Why is it when someone has a disbelief in something others has to try

Jonathon Brownback > mikeburke

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

Jean Paul Datuin

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

Mik73 > Matthew Michaud

Ashes > Matthew Michaud

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

Cody Douds > imrangr1

Jerry > Cody Douds

Let me ask the author, does the universe have a beginning?

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

So, there is no God, the universe is all there is.

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

Given that the Universe exists

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

For starters, atheism just means "Lack of faith in gods".

Jason > Marius de Jess

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

Hoss > Marius de Jess

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

stunner > Marius de Jess

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

brad > Joseph

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism

Mik73 > Joseph

The Best Argument For Atheism? - Religious Criticism