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Question: Delivered by the purpose and foreknowledge of God how do you explain
that?
Name: Michael
First of all I have to admit:
Being in a Southern Baptist Church, I was highly skeptical and utterly biased against you
and your "open view" theology of God. Obviously just glancing at your articles on "Does
God Repent" and "Predestination vs. Freewill" left me believing that you had some sort
of critic theology. I expected the worst. But after reading Augustine's Confessions I
contemplated the testimony of his conversion from Manicheanism. And the only
conclusion I can come up with is that the Manicheans were skeptical of OT scriptures
because they believed it spoke of a mutable God. I eventually left your Theology forum
never to post again, because I was becoming so argumentative and naive. I probably still
am a bit naive. But after reading Gregory Boyd's book "God of the Possible" I am
starting to come around. I do have a few questions concerning Foreknowledge though.
Namely Acts 2:23. "Him being delivered by the purpose and foreknowledge of God, you
have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death" How do you explain this
verse?
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
Michael,
Welcome back to our site, and thanks for the question. It is clear that God did, indeed
make sure the crucifixion of Christ would be done in the way He prophesied. Thats
exactly what Acts says in two places. I think the passage you mentioned should be
translated like this: Act 2:23 Him, delivered by the destined counsel and foreknowledge
of God, you, having taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death. This
shows the underlying Greek word is the destine part of predestine. The similar passage
which I will also translate, is in Acts 4:26-28 The kings of the earth took their stand, and
the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against His Christ. 27 For truly
against Your holy child, Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with
the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 to do whatever Your hand
and Your counsel predestined to be done.
Notice that in both passages the Lord Jesus Christ Himself was not destined or
predestined. Though Jesus willingly went to the cross, others were predestined. In Acts

2:23, Christ was delivered by the destined counsel of God. In Acts 4:27,28, Herod and
Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 to do
whatever Gods hand and His counsel predestined to be done. Christ was not
predestined in either one of these passages. Gods predestination was there to make sure
they did what God wanted. However, it was up to Christ to freely die for our sins.
Remember in the garden when He in anguish, in Mat 26:39-43, went a little farther and
fell on His face, and prayed, saying, O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from
Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will. 40 Then He came to the disciples and
found them asleep, and said to Peter, What? Could you not watch with Me one hour? 41
Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh
is weak. 42 Again, a second time, He went away and prayed, saying, O My Father, if
this cup cannot pass away from Me unless I drink it, Your will be done. 43 And He came
and found them asleep again, for their eyes were heavy. 44 So He left them, went away
again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.
God, the Father, wanted Jesus Christ to willingly die for our sins. Christ implored the
Father. Is there any other way? Oh, let this cup pass. To take upon myself the sin of the
world. Oh Father. But, He conformed His will to the Fathers. He freely died for our sins.
Praise our Lord Jesus Christ, and praise God, the Father, almighty.
Remember, before man had sinned, God had a plan of redemption in case man did sin.
Thats what it shows us in 1 Pe 1:20: He indeed was foreknown (proegnwsmenou)
before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.
I hope this answers your question Michael. Please ask any questions you want.
Sincerely, in Christ the sacrifice for our sins,
Bob
Question: How do you explain the Scripture that shows God knows all of the future?
Gary
Question: How do you explain the Scripture that shows God knows all of the future?
I have been discussing theology with my coworkers and they have a hard time
understanding the concept that God does not know the future with respect to the actions
of free will moral agents. They believe that God knows All of the future. In particular,
one young lady I work with (who is a Baptist) wanted to know that if God doesnt know

all of the future, then how do you explain the following Scripture passages: Jer 23:23,24;
Psa 139; Isa 44:7; Isa 46:10; Isa 48:3; Pro 15:3; 2 Ti 3:16; Rev 22:13.
These particular passages were selected by her pastor by the way. After initially
reading these passages, I challenged her to show me where they specifically state that
God knows ALL of the future. She couldnt answer me specifically. I plan on
rereading/restudying the predestination and freewill issue to give her a more concise
answer but could you provide a brief statement on the above passages for her.
Thanx, Gary
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
Gary,
Its great to have fellowship with other believers at work. Dont let theology divide
you. Always remember that our fellowship is based on the love of God. We should
especially seek God and pray that we have a loving attitude as we discuss Gods word
with fellow Christians who believe differently.
Jer 23:23,24 Am I a God near at hand, says the Lord, And not a God afar off? 24
Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him? says the Lord; Do I
not fill heaven and earth? says the Lord. This has nothing to do with what God knows of
the future actions of humans. This shows us Gods glorious ability to see whats going on
no matter what.
Psa 139 See The Knowledge of God in Psalm 139 on biblicalanswers.com. Its in the
Books & articles about predestination section.
Isa 44:7 And who can proclaim as I do? Then let him declare it and set it in order for
Me, Since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come,
Let them show these to them. When God proclaims or appoints things, we find from our
next two passages, Isa 46:10 & Isa 48:3, that He actually makes them happen.
Isa 46:9-11 Remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is no other; I
am God, and there is none like Me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from
ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do
all My pleasure, 11 calling a bird of prey from the east, the man who executes My
counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have
purposed it; I will also do it.

First, notice that God declares certain things are going to happen. Then He tells us
why it is sureMy counsel shall stand. Why will His counsel stand? He tells us
immediatelyI will do all My pleasure. God declares these things because He will do
them. It is not that He knows all the future, its that He declares certain aspects of the
future and then makes them happen. Other times He says perhaps they will happen such
as in Jer 26:2,3 Thus says the Lord: Stand in the court of the Lords house, and speak to
all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lords house, all the words that I
command you to speak to them. Do not diminish a word. 3 Perhaps everyone will listen
and turn from his evil way, that I may repent concerning the calamity which I purpose to
bring on them because of the evil of their doings. But when you read on, you see that
they do not turn from their evil ways. Ex 13:17 Then it came to pass, when Pharaoh had
let the people go, that God did not lead them by way of the land of the Philistines,
although that was near; for God said, Lest perhaps the people change their minds when
they see war, and return to Egypt. God was afraid they would return to Egypt. Jer 36:1-3
Now it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, that
this word came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 2 Take a scroll of a book and write
on it all the words that I have spoken to you against Israel, against Judah, and against all
the nations, from the day I spoke to you, from the days of Josiah even to this day. 3 It
may be that the house of Judah will hear all the adversities which I purpose to bring upon
them, that everyone may turn from his evil way, that I may forgive their iniquity and their
sin. But, read on; they did not turn from their evil way. Isa 48:3-5 I have declared the
former things from the beginning; They went forth from My mouth, and I caused them to
hear it. Suddenly I did them, and they came to pass. 4 Because I knew that you were
obstinate, and your neck was an iron sinew, and your brow bronze, 5 Even from the
beginning I have declared it to you; Before it came to pass I proclaimed it to you, lest you
should say, My idol has done them, and my carved image and my molded image have
commanded them. Again, God declares them because Suddenly I did them, and they
came to pass. God declares them because He does them. That is not knowing the future
actions of free will agents. That is not knowing the future except the things our Great God
does. Our security is grounded on this wonderful truth. He predestines us to be holy and
blameless because we are in Christ.
Pro 15:3 The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the
good. This has nothing to do with Gods knowing the future. God knows everything, but
He only knows the future events that He determines will happen. I dont understand why
this verse was included.
2 Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for
reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be
complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. Amen! The whole Bible is inspired
by God and profitable. I dont understand why this verse was included either.

Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the
Last. This is a deity statement by Christ about himself. It has nothing to do with His
knowing the future. He is now, and will be, in control of the end. This just as it says in 1
Co 15:22-28 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each
one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christs at His
coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when
He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has
put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For
He has put all things under His feet. But when He says all things are put under Him,
it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things
are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all
things under Him, that God may be all in all.
May the Lord bless your fellowship at work,
Bob
Question: What are the Scripture references to support Arminian views of predestination?
10 May 2000 07:13
Name: Lorraine Jamison
Question:
Can you give me scriptural references to support the claims of arminianism concerning
predestination? I can find so many for the doctrines under the title of calvinism but none
for arminianism.
Why is this?
Lorra
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
Lorra,
Most Arminians say they do not believe in determinism, but they have the same
presuppositions that cause the Calvinists to come to their conclusions that God
predestines the elect to be saved. For instance, I would like to present excerpts from The

Works of Arminius to show you how close to Calvin Arminius was. This has to do with
the attributes of God. I will put key words in bold.
The Works of Arminius.[1]
For if God resolve to use an irresistible power in the execution of his decree, or if he
determine to employ such a quantum of power as nothing can resist or can hinder it from
completing his purpose, it will follow that the thing will necessarily be brought into
existence. Thus, wicked men who persevere in their sins, will necessarily perish, for
God will by an irresistible force, cast them down into the depths of hell. But if he resolve
to use a force that is not irresistible, but that can be resisted by the creature, then that
thing is said to be done, not necessarily but contingently, although its actual occurrence
was certainly foreknown by God, according to the infinity of his understanding, by which
he knows all results whatever, that will arise from certain causes which are laid down,
and whether those causes produce a thing necessarily or contingently. From whence the
school-men say that all things are done by a necessity of infallibility, which phrase is
used in a determinate sense, although the words in which its enunciation is expressed are
ill-chosen. For infallibility is not an affection of a being, which exists from causes; but it
is an affection of a Mind that sees or that foresees what will be the effect of certain
causes. . . . But it being granted that God wills to form the world by his infinite power, to
which NOTHING ITSELF must be equal to matter in the most perfect state of
preparation and it being likewise granted that God actually employs this power it will
then be said, It was impossible for the world to do otherwise than exist from this cause;
or, from this cause, the world could not but exist. . . . . As we ought to enunciate
negatively the mode by which the Essence of God preeminently both is and is spiritual,
above the excellence of all Essences, even of those which are spiritual; so this may be
done first and immediately in a single phrase, he is, anarco" kai anaitio" without
beginning and without cause either external or internal. (Isa 43:10; 44:8,24; 46:9; Rev
1:8; Rom 11:35, 36; 1 Co 8:4-6; Rom 9:5.) For since there cannot be any advancement in
infinitum, (for if there could, there would be no Essence, no Knowledge,) there must be
one Essence, above and before which no other can exist: but such an Essence must that of
God be; for, to whatsoever this Essence may be attributed, it will by that very act of
ascription be God himself. . . . Infinity of Being is a preeminent mode of the Essence of
God, by which it is devoid of all limitation and boundary, (Psa 145:3; Isa 43:10,) whether
from something above it or below it, from something before it or after it. It is not
bounded by anything above it, because it has received its being from no one. Nor by
anything below it, because the form, which is itself, is not limited to the capacity of any
matter whatsoever that may be its recipient. Neither by any thing before it, because it is
from nothing efficient: nor after it, because it does not exist for the sake of another end.
But, His Essence is terminated inwardly by its own property, according to which it is
what it is and nothing else. Yet by this no limits are prescribed to its infinity; for by the

very circumstance, that it is its own being, subsisting through itself, neither received from
another nor in another, it is distinguished, from all others, and others are removed from it.
(Isa 44:9; Rom 11:36; Pro 16:4.) THEREFORE, Whatsoever is predicated absolutely
about God, is predicated concerning Him immediately, primarily, and without [respect to]
cause. . . . From the Simplicity and Infinity of the Divine sense, arise Infinity with regard
to time, which is called Eternity; and with regard to place, which is called
Immensity; Impassability [sic], Immutability, and Incorruptibility. . . . Immensity is a
pre-eminent mode of the Essence of God, by which it is void of place according to space
and limits: being co-extended space, because it belongs to simple entity, not having part
and part, therefore not having part beyond part. Being also its own encircling limits, or
beyond which it has no existence, because it is of infinite entity: and, before all things,
God alone was both the world, and place, and all things to himself; but He was alone,
because there was nothing outwardly beyond, except himself. (l Kings 8:27; Job 11:8, 9.).
. . . Impassability is a pre-eminent mode of the Essence of God, according to which it is
devoid of all suffering or feeling; not only because nothing can act against this Essence,
for it is of infinite Being and devoid of an external cause; but likewise because it cannot
receive the act of anything, for it is of simple Entity. THEREFORE, Christ has not
suffered according to the Essence of his Deity. . . . The life of God is his essence itself,
and his very being; because the Divine Essence is in every respect simple, as well as
infinite, and therefore, eternal and immutable. On this account, to it, and indeed to it
alone, is attributed immortality, which, therefore, cannot be communicated to any
creature. (1 Ti 1:17; 6:16.) It is immense, without increase and decrease; it is one and
undivided, holy and set apart from all things; it is good, and therefore communicable, and
actually communicative of itself, both by creation and preservation, and by habitation
commenced in this life, to be consummated in the life to come. (Gen 2:7; Acts 17:28;
Rom 8:10, 11; 1 Co 15:28.). . . . God, therefore, understands himself. He knows all things
possible, whether they be in the capability of God or of the creature; in active or passive
capability; in the capability of operation, imagination, or enunciation. He knows all
things that could have an existence, on laying down any hypothesis. He knows other
things than himself, those which are necessary and contingent, good and bad, universal
and particular, future, present and past, excellent and vile. He knows things substantial
and accidental of every kind; the actions and passions, the modes and circumstances of
all things; external words and deeds, internal thoughts, deliberations, counsels, and
determinations, and the entities of reason, whether complex or simple. All these things,
being jointly attributed to the understanding of God, seem to conduce to the conclusion,
that God may deservedly be said to know things infinite. (Acts 15:18; Heb 4:13; Mat
11:27; Psa 147:4; Isa 51:32, 33; 54:7; Mat 10:30; Psa 135:1 Jo 3:20; 1 Sa 16:7; 1 Ki 8:39;
Psa 94:11; Isa 40:28; Psa 147:5; 139; 94:9, 10; 10:13, 14.). . . . The mode by which God
understands, is not that which is successive, and which is either through composition and
division, or through deductive argumentation; but it is simple, and through infinite
intuition. (Heb 4:13.) THEREFORE, (1.) God knows all things from eternity; nothing

recently. For this new perfection would add something to His essence by which He
understands all things; or his understanding would exceed His essence, if he now
understood what he did not formerly understand. But this cannot happen, since he
understands all things through his essence. (Acts 15:18; Eph 1:4.) (2.) He knows all
things immeasurably, without the augmentation and decrease of the things known and of
the knowledge itself. (Psa 147:5.) (3.) He knows all things immutably, his knowledge not
being varied to the infinite changes of the things known. (Jam 1:17) (4.) By a single and
undivided act, not being diverted towards many things but collected into himself, He
knows all things. Yet he does not know them confusedly, or only universally and in
general; but also in a distinct and most special manner He knows himself in himself,
things in their causes, in themselves, in his own essence, in themselves as being present,
in their causes antecedently, and in himself most pre-eminently. (Heb 4:13; 1 Ki 8:39; Psa
139:16, 17.) (5.) And therefore when sleep, drowsiness and oblivion are attributed to
God, by these expressions is meant only a deferring of the punishment to be inflicted on
his enemies, and a delay in affording solace and aid to his friends. (Psa 13:1, 2.). . . . He
knows all beings, whether they be considered as future, as past, or as present; (Jer 18:6;
Isa 44:7;) and of these there is also a threefold order. The first order is of those beings
which by his own mere act shall exist, do exist, or have existed. (Act 15:18.) The second
is of those which will exist, do exist, or have existed, by the intervention of the Creatures,
either by themselves, or through them by Gods preservation, motion, aid, concurrence
and permission. (Psa 139:4:.) The third order consists of those which God will himself do
or make, does make, or hath made, from the acts of the creatures, in accordance either
with himself or with his acts. (Deu 28). This consideration is of infinite utility in various
heads of theological doctrine. . . . The understanding of God is certain, and never can be
deceived, so that He certainly and infallibly sees even future contingencies, whether He
sees them in their causes or in themselves. (1 Sa 23:11, 12; Mat 11:21.) But, this certainty
rests upon the infinity of the essence of God, by which in a manner the most present He
understands all things. The understanding of God is derived from no external cause, not
even from an object; though if there should not afterwards be an object, there would not
likewise be the understanding of God about it. (Isa 40:13, 14; Rom 11:33, 34.). Though
the understanding of God be certain and infallible, yet it does not impose any necessity
on things, nay, it rather establishes in them a contingency. For since it is an understanding
not only of the thing itself, but likewise of its mode, it must know the thing and its mode
such as they both are; and therefore if the mode of the thing be contingent, it will know it
to be contingent; which cannot be done, if this mode of the thing be changed into a
necessary one, even solely by reason of the Divine understanding. (Act 27:22-25, 31;
23:11, in connection with verses 17, 18, etc., with 25:10, 12; and with 26:32; Rom 11:33;
Psa 147:5.) 39. Since God distinctly understands such a variety of things by one infinite
intuition, Omniscience or All-Wisdom is by a most deserved right attributed to Him. Yet
this omniscience is not to be considered in God according to the mode of the habitude,
but according to that of a most pure act. . . . The schoolmen[2] say besides, that one kind

of Gods knowledge is natural and necessary, another free, and a third kind middle. (1.)
Natural or necessary knowledge is that by which God understands himself and all things
possible. (2.) Free knowledge is that by which he knows, all other beings. (3.) Middle
knowledge is that by which he knows that if This thing happens, That will take place.
The first precedes every free act of the Divine will; the second follows the free act of
Gods will; and the last precedes indeed the free act of the Divine will, but hypothetically
from this act it sees that some particular thing will occur. But, in strictness of speech,
every kind of Gods knowledge is necessary. For the free understanding of God does not
arise from this circumstance, that a free act of His will exhibits or offers an object to the
understanding; but when any object whatsoever is laid down, the Divine understanding
knows it necessarily on account of the infinity of its own essence. In like manner, any
object whatsoever being laid down hypothetically, God understands necessarily what will
arise from that object. 44. Free knowledge is also called foreknowledge, as is likewise
that of vision by which other beings are known; and since it follows a free act of the will,
it is not the cause of things; it is, therefore, affirmed with truth concerning it, that things
do not exist because God knows them as about to come into existence, but that He knows
future things because they are future
Although I am not a Calvinist or an Arminian, I do believe God created the angels and
man with free will, and I do not believe God elected some to be saved and didnt elect
others. Also, is it true that everything that happens is His will? We must look at Gods
word. Does it show that man has a will?
Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of
heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 12:50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister
and mother.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who
are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her
chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
John 7:17 If anyone wants to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine,
whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
1 John 2:17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of
God abides forever.
These verses weve looked at imply that man has a will. Now, looking at it from a
different view, does Gods will always come to pass?

1 Ti 2:4 says God desires [wills] all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of
the truth. Yet all men are not saved. Even Christians reject the will of God. Everyone of
us have according to 1 Th 4:3-7 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you
should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess
his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who
do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this
matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and
testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. In summary, 1 Ti 2:4
says God desires [wills] all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God sends His Spirit to convict their hearts, John 16:8, And when He has come, He will
convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment, but in Luke 7:30, the
Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized
by him. And untold millions have rejected His counsel for them since that time.
Though man does reject Gods counsel for himself and does resist His will, no one can
resist His counsel as it pertains to His purpose. Thats what Rom 9:19 says: You will say
to me then, Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will? Therefore, we
need to look at the following. Many believe everything that happens is Gods will. If that
is true, then the unrepentance and perishing of the wicked must be His will. Yet,
according to 1 Ti 2:4, God says this is not His will.
How could you reconcile, that is, make these two statements fit? Heres how one
theologian did. God does not want men to perish according to His revealed will. But
according to His effectual will, God wants some men to perish. If this were true, what
would that mean? One meaning would be that God lies. He tells (reveals to) us that He
wants to save everyone but, in fact, has no such wish. Or, another meaning would be,
God really does want to save them and not want to save them at the same time. Therefore,
God would be a God of contradiction and chaos. But there is no Scripture to support his
statement. Further, this would also include an effectual calling, which means God
regenerates the elect so they are able to believe. They also believe that He has a noneffectual calling, which would be the one He has issued. But, again, Scripture shows the
opposite. For instance, John 12:32 shows this: And I, if I am lifted up from the earth,
will draw all to Myself. Mat 22:10 is similar, So those servants went out into the
highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the
wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 But when the king came in to see the guests, he
saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, Friend,
how did you come in here without a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then
the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into
outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called
ones, but few are chosen ones.

Another problem would be the be that it would include an unconditional election,

where God chooses whom would be saved regardless of their faith, and a conditional
election, where they would have to make their election sure. 2 Pet 1:10, Therefore,
brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these
things you will never stumble.
Others talk about His active will and His permissive will, but this has no scriptural
support. Does He permit men to continue on the road to hell, when He could transfer
them to the road of life? What does Gods word say? Weve already seen 1 Tim 2:4 says
God desires [wills] all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. But
did you know that 2 Pet 3:9 says, The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some
count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that
all should have room for repentance. [me boulomenos tinas apolesthai, alla pantas eis
metanoian choresai]
One more passage that you might be interested in is Psalm 32. Blessed is he whose
transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered. 2 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD
does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit there is no deceit. 3 When I kept silent, my
bones grew old Through my groaning all the day long. 4 For day and night Your hand
was heavy upon me; My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah 5 I
acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, I will confess
my transgressions to the LORD, And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
Does God want us to sin? And then forgive us? 6 For this cause everyone who is
godly shall pray to You In a time when You may be found; When is that? I think it
means, before the trouble starts, so you can prepare yourself by getting into Gods word.
Because, Surely in a flood of great waters They shall not come near him. 7 You are my
hiding place; You shall preserve me from trouble; You shall surround me with songs of
deliverance. Selah
What was Davids strength? 8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should
go; I will guide you with My eye. Now for the clincher, to see what God wants. God
does not want mule-like servants. 9 Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which
have no understanding, Which must be harnessed with bit and bridle, Else they will not
come near you. No, God wants relationships of mutual affection. He loved us first. He
wants us to love Him freely. He doesnt want us to have a love based on force. Thats no
love at all. So, in conclusion, He wants all men to be saved. He doesnt want a bunch of
bridled mules. He wants to leave men free to accept or refuse His plan to give them
salvation. Now, if this is true Lorra, then what? I think its up to us to live a life style of
evangelism.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------[1] The AGES Digital Library, The Works of Arminius, pp. 263,265,404-406,409-414.
All biblical book abbreviations are mine.
[2] Schoolmen, Scholasticism, connotes the long period of Western learning, especially
philosophical and theological, originating in the ninth century and terminating in the
fifteenth century. Two notable features of this learning are its intimate association with
Catholic theology and its rigorous logical formalism. Ferm, An Encyclopedia of Religion,
p. 695. An outstanding objective of the school men was to ascertain the relation of faith
to reason. Latourette, A History of Christianity, p. 495,496.
Question:...Are the pilgrims of the Dispersion elected to be saved?
24 Mar 2000 09:40
Name: Marlyn Y
Question: Are the pilgrims of the Dispersion elected to be saved?
Bob Hill,
A question for you in 1 Peter 1-5:
1) In verse 1 and 2, Are the pilgrims of the Dispersion in.... are elect according to the
foreknowledge of God the Father?
2) In verse 4, to an inheritance.... reserved in heaven for you. Are these pilgrims of the
Dispersion...believing jews? So they have inheritance in heaven?
3) In verse 5, What is salvation ready to be revealed in the last time?
I hope you can help me on this while I am studying these passages. I am using the New
King Jim Version. You surely have a nice website and I do learn and enjoy your show.
In His Grace,
Marlyn

Answer: (click here to view the answer)

Marlyn,
First I want to print all of 1 Peter 1:1-5 with my minor alterations from the Greek text.
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to chosen sojourners of [the] Dispersion of Pontus,
Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the
Father, by sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of [the] blood of Jesus
Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our
Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living
hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an incorruptible,
undefiled and unfading inheritance, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are being kept by
the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last season.
You asked, 1) In verse 1 and 2, Are the pilgrims of the Dispersion in.... are elect
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father? Yes those who are believers in the
chosen nation are partakers of the blessings of the chosen nation, Israel. The BGD
Lexicon for geno" has this: nation, people . . . geno" eklekton a chosen nation 1 Pe 2:9.
(GraecaII is the Greek font Im using.)
Although Peter addressed this epistle to the elect dispersion, this does not mean that
their salvation was sure. God called the whole nation of Israel His elect many times, but
their personal salvation depended upon their continued response to His commands. If
they were disobedient, their personal salvation would be jeopardized. Gods election of
Israel concerned the nation as a whole, not the salvation of individuals. When God chose
this nation to be a people for Himself (Deu 7:6-26; 14:2), He imposed many conditions
of obedience on them.
Peter summarized these conditions of obedience and applied them to the recipients of
2 Peter in 1:10: Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your calling and
election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble. This concept of
obedience is also stated here in First Peter.
This election is corporate. They were elected as a nation. But to be one of the elect,
they must obey, that is, respond in faith and endurance. Notice, they were elect
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. Gesenius shows that the Hebrew
word yada, often translated know, is used of God as caring for man. Here, I think it
means, making one the object of loving care. Jer 1:5 says, Before I formed you in the
womb I knew you. We can apply that interpretation to our passage. I think God is

expressing His love. God made the nation of Israel, a corporate body, the object of His
loving care when they were in the wilderness (Hos 13:5).
However, in general, they did not respond to His love. When He said in Amos 3:2,
You only have I known of all the families of the earth; Therefore I will punish you for
all your iniquities, it was not that His knowledge was limited to Israel. This statement
expressed His love for them. In the same way, He expressed His love in Deu 10:15, The
LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after
them, you above all peoples, as it is this day. Then He continued by laying conditions on
them for individual blessing.
I believe the foreknowledge of God in respect to the recipients of Peters epistle is His
desire to love them. The same requirement, for obedience, was imposed on them here
as it was in Deuteronomy 10. The words, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of
Jesus Christ, remind me of the affirmation of the covenant by the chosen people in Ex
24:5-8.
Then he sent young men of the children of Israel, who offered burnt offerings and
sacrificed peace offerings of oxen to the LORD. And Moses took half the blood and put it
in basins, and half the blood he sprinkled on the altar. Then he took the Book of the
Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, All that the LORD has
said we will do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, sprinkled it on the people,
and said, This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you
according to all these words.
This covenant people was chosen according to the fore-love of God the Father, by
sanctification of the Spirit to obey Gods covenant commands. Instead of animals,
however, the blood of Christ is mentioned in the Petrine passage. It is mentioned because
it is the blood of the new covenant. Aspects of the new covenant were in place for this
people addressed in First Peter. Also, commands were made according to the new
covenant.
Peter conveyed some wonderful thoughts to the dispersion when he wrote to them.
They have been begotten again for a living hope and a permanent inheritance. They are
kept by the power of God for salvation prepared to be revealed in the end time. Is this
rebirth absolute? Does it mean they are secure? Are there any conditions which must be
met for them to experience these blessings? What assurance of salvation do they have?
We must answer these questions from the context. Their assurance depended on their
faith. They are being kept (This is a present participle, it is continuous present action,
tou" en dunamei qeou frouroumenou" dia pistew",. those being kept by the power of God
through faith.) by their faith. If they continue in their faith until the end, they will make

their salvation sure (Mat 24:10-14) since these epistles will have special use in the
tribulation. That is why Peter told them to be diligent to make their election sure in 2 Pe
1:10,11 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure,
for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied
to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
They did not have security of their salvation as we do. They had assurance as long as
they were being diligent in maintaining their faith. We were sealed by the Holy Spirit at
the point of our salvation (Eph 1:13). Since our sealing lasts until the day of redemption
(Eph 4:30), we have security in contrast to their assurance, which was for as long as they
maintained their faith.
In Deu 32:18,19 we see the whole nation had been begotten by God, Of the Rock
who begot you . . . the God who fathered you. But that did not mean they were all saved.
In fact, Israel forsook God, And when the Lord saw it, He spurned them, because of the
provocation of His sons and His daughters. Therefore, the answer to your suggested
question earlier is, no! Just because they were begotten of God, that does not mean they
were securely saved. Their salvation depended on their continuance in that faith.
Isaiah addressed Israels unfaithfulness and its consequences in the 65th chapter. We
must remember that God has always shown His keeping power in the history of Israel. He
loved them and anguished over them repeatedly in their long history. But in Jer 15:6, we
find that Israel was so exasperating that God said, You have forsaken Me, says the
Lord, You have gone backward. Therefore I will stretch out My hand against you and
destroy you; I am weary of repenting!
But the greater context shows His churning emotions over Israel. Hos 11:8 is one of
the best examples: How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel?
How can I make you like Admah? How can I set you like Zeboiim? My heart churns
within Me; My sympathy is stirred. As long as they trusted God, He protected them
from their enemies, won their battles, and blessed them abundantly. Here, in 1 Pe 1:5,
these same principles apply to their salvation. We may take only the secondary
application to ourselves since our salvation is secure (Eph 1:4-14). Our blessings are
conditional. If we feed on His word by meditating on it, we can grow in our love for Him.
Then as we concentrate on loving Him we will experience that miraculous love in our
own hearts. As we continue loving the Lord He fills us with His fruit. Remember, Christ
is formed in us by faith (Eph 3:17). When we learn to depend totally on Him, His love
will flow out of our inner man like springs of water, and His blessings will overwhelm us
and we will minister for Him in His power.

The principles for Israel are not so different from those applicable to the body of
Christ. The greatest distinction is the point at which salvation is received. Our salvation is
sealed at the point of our belief. Theirs is received at the end of their faith when it is
shown to be genuine. Thats what it means when it says, receiving the end of your faith
the salvation of your souls in 1:6,7,9 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a
little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of
your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire,
may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, . . . 9 receiving
the end of your faith the salvation of your souls.
Peter used a purpose clause here, that the genuineness of your faith, to express
Gods desire that the testing of their faith would result in praise, honor, and glory at the
revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pe 1:13; Rev 1:1). If their faith is found to be genuine, then
they will receive the end of their faith, the salvation of their souls. Their salvation is
conditional. This testing is exactly what the circumcision covenant has required from its
inception.
I hope this answers your questions.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question:...position seems to imply a temporal God, a concept clearly contradicted by the
scripture.
20 Mar 2000 17:10
Name: D. C. Fink
Question: Can God exist in time and still be God?
Mr. Hill,
My question relates to the foreknowledge issue. The traditional reformed position (as
articulated in the exerpt you quote from Calvin's INSTITUTES) views God as "outside"
of time, seeing all things, as it were, at once. It would seem that according to your
position, and the position held by other openness theologians such as Greg Boyd and
Clark Pinnock, God has a consciousness within time, learning and growing and reacting
to his creation (Boyd is crystal clear on this point). My question is this: according to the
understanding of the univers spelled out by modern physics, space and time are
inseparably connected--time can be mathematically described as a fourth dimension to

the three of space. Therefore, if an entity exists in time, it must also exist in space.
Describing an object that exists in time, but not in space, is as impossible as describing an
object with length, but no height; breadth, but no depth. If you maintain that God exists
in time, it seems as though he must also exist in space. Thus, your position seems to
imply a temporal God, a concept clearly contradicted by the scripture.
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
Mr. Fink,
Thank you for your observations, logical presentation and rational conclusion. I agree
with the way you put your argument. However, I must make a few modifications about
what you may think I believe. I do not believe in the God of Process Theology. I do not
believe God is learning or growing. I do agree He does not know for certain many free
will happenings before they are made certain by the free will agent.
I do not care what the "new physics" has "mathematically described". I majored in
chemistry, then biology, then Greek, and then graduated in history; and in my 67 years I
have seen science change dramatically many times in my short lifetime. Because God is
spirit, I don't think modern physicists could describe Him anyway. What I depend on to
find out who God is and how He acts and feels is the Bible.
The Bible shows us that God repents, does not know certain free-will actions of men
in the Bible, has passion and says perhaps. See my articles on biblicalanswers.com. The
God of the Bible is dynamic and able to do these things that Augustine, Calvin and other
great men have mistakenly said He could not do.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question:...God wants (intends) to fulfill His promises, but that man's freewill prevents
Him...
Jobeth
March 15, 2000
You believe and teach that God wants (intends) to fulfill His promises, but that man's
freewill prevents Him so that He is UNABLE to do what He said He would do. Is that
correct? If so, then how do you answer the charge that this teaching makes Human

Beings MORE powerful than the Almighty and that it makes mans Freewill the Supreme
Power and Ultimate Authority rather than the Most High God?
I want to know if you believe that the explanation for "so-called" failed prophecy is: A)
God is unable to (cannot) fulfill His promise or B) God refuses to (will not) fulfill His
promises? Which is the case? Is it that God CAN keep His promises, but doesn't WANT
TO? Or is it that God WANTS TO keep His promises, but CAN'T? Do you assert that
God makes promises that He CANNOT Keep? Or do you assert that God makes promises
that He doesn't INTEND TO keep? For that matter, does God even KNOW whether His
promise will be fulfilled or not?
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
The cause of "so-called" failed prophecy is man. God made many prophecies that will
never be fulfilled because man was disobedient. Because man was disobedient, God
changed His mind.
The Scriptures give His principles in Jer 18:1-10 The word which came to Jeremiah from
the Lord, saying: 2 Arise and go down to the potters house, and there I will cause you
to hear My words. 3 Then I went down to the potters house, and there he was, making
something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of
the potter;
The vessel wasnt marred because God was inept. It was marred because man was
rebellious.
so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make. 5 Then
the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 O house of Israel, can I not do with you as
this potter? says the Lord. Look, as the clay is in the potters hand, so are you in My
hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a
kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have
spoken turns from its evil, I will repent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9
And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to
plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will repent
concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.
The prophecies that cant be fulfilled are the kinds that occur in Isa 7:10-16 Moreover the
Lord spoke again to Ahaz, saying, 11 Ask a sign for yourself from the Lord your God;
ask it either in the depth or in the height above. 12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, nor
will I test the Lord! 13 Then he said, Hear now, O house of David! Is it a small thing
for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord Himself

will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His
name Immanuel.
The Immanuel prophecy was not kept as given by God. The virgin did not conceive in
Ahazs time. That exact prophecy was not fulfilled. Why? I dont know, but God must
have had a good reason.
15 Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the
good. 16 For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land
that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings.
The Ezekiel ch. 26-30 prophecies against Tyre, especially when God said
Nebuchadnezzar would destroy Tyre, were not fulfilled. God said He would pay
Nebuchadnezzar for His 13 years of labor. Nebuchadnezzar did not take Tyre. Why?
Probably because the king of Tyre repented, but we dont have any information that says
that. We can only surmise that from Jonahs prophecy that wasnt fulfilled because the
king and the people of Tyre repented, so God repented of the harm He said was going to
happen-40 days Nineveh is going to be destroyed.
In Christ,
Bob
Question:...Is God Outside of Time Plato, Plotinus, Augustine
15 Mar 2000 17:49
Name: Alan Farris
Question: Is God Outside of Time Plato, Plotinus, Augustine
In your explination of Predestination vs. Free Will, please explain your thoughts that God
is not sure what men will do in all cases. I thought God was omnipotent and all knowing.
I thought he lived outside of time, so it is His nature to know.
Please explain.
Thanks
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
Alan,

Many are concerned with the way I deal with the Scriptures which say that God
changes His mind, answers prayer or repents. Many Christians dont sympathize with
Calvinism at all but believe that a solution to the problem of Gods repentance in over
twenty passages in the Bible is found in what Paul Tillich borrowed from Greek
philosophy: The eternal now, that God is not in time. I have been studying this topic for
40 years and have not found one place that says God is outside of time or even alludes to
that idea. Instead, the Bible shows God working with us in time.
Passages like 2 Ti 1:9, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not
according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to
us in Christ Jesus before time began, and Tit 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who
cannot lie, promised before time began, should be translated, before age times (pro
cronwn aiwniwn GraecaII font).
Instead of Tillich making this statement originally, it was Plato. Plato was the one that
influenced Augustine the most through another philosopher, Plotinus. I think Augustine,
who lived from 354-430 AD, was the most influential theologian who ever lived.
Most scholars in the ancient world of Augustine understood Platos concept of God.
He had influenced almost all the schools of philosophy of that time. Plato explained
Gods immutability this way in, A dialogue between Socrates and Adeimantus.
Is it not true that to be altered and moved by something else happens least to things
that are in the best condition . . . that those which are well made and in good condition are
least liable to be changed by time and other influences. . . . It is universally true then, that
that which is in the best state by nature or art or both admits least alteration by something
else. . . . But God, surely and everything that belongs to God is in every way in the best
possible state. . . . Then does he (God) change himself for the better and to something
fairer, or for the worse and to something uglier than himself? It must necessarily . . . be
for the worse if he is changed . . . the gods themselves are incapable of change. . . . Then
God is altogether simple and true in deed and word, and neither changes himself. (Plato.
Plato V, Republic I, Loeb Classical Library, Book II, Chapters XIX-XXI, pp. 191-197,
trans. by Paul Shorey.)
This argument was formulated by Plato and later adopted by Augustine through the
writings of the Neoplatonists, and especially Plotinus. Let me emphasize again, what
Plato said at the end of his dialogue. He basically said that since God is perfect, he is not
altered or moved by anything else. Here is Platos conclusion about Gods immutability
again. . . . the gods themselves are incapable of change . . . Then God . . . neither
changes.

The Neo-Platonist, Plotinus (about 205-269), made a journey to the East and returned
with an arsenal of monistic ideas against the rapidly-growing Christian church in the
Roman Empire. To claim the Greek philosophical heritage he included some ideas from
Plato, his system of contemplation was identical with the yoga of Hindu monism.
Plotinus failed to rally the Roman Empire against Jesus Christ, but he was rediscovered
and introduced through the back door many centuries later. Plotinus lived about 150
years before Augustine. He was very influential upon Augustine. The concept of God
being in the state of Eternal Now (Atemporal), or being outside of time, was received
from Plato through Plotinus. Lets examine the parallel thoughts of Plotinus and
Augustine. Well see Augustine was greatly influenced by the thoughts of Plotinus.
The concept that there is no past or future only present
Plotinus
seeing all this one sees eternity in seeing a life that abides in the same, and always has
the all present to it, not now this, and then again that, but all things at once, and not now
some things, and then again others, but a partless completion . . . Necessarily there will
be no was about it, for what is there that was for it and has passed away? Nor any will
be, for what will be for it? So there remains for it only to be in its being just what it is.
That, then, which was not, and will not be, but is only, which has being which is static by
not changing to the will be, nor ever having changed, this is eternity. (Plotinus.
Plotinus III, Ennead, The Loeb Classical Library, Book III, Chapter 7, p. 305, trans. by
A.H. Armstrong)
Augustine
so that of those things which emerge in time, the future indeed, are not yet, and the
present are now, and the past no longer are; but all of these are by Him comprehended in
His stable and eternal presence . . . but beholds all things with absolute
unchangeableness (The City of God, Book XI, Chapter 21, p. 364). Augustine believed
that God exists in an eternal present in which the future and the past are comprehended as
existing now. Plotinus said the eternal does not have a was (past) or a will be(future)
but only an is(present). Since God exists in an eternal state the past, present and future
are viewed as existing in that present state at the same time as the present.
The concept that in the Eternal Now there is no change
Plotinus

which is static by not changing to the will be, nor ever having changed, (Ennead,
p.305)
Augustine
but beholds all things with absolute unchangeableness (City of God, p. 364). The
concept of immutability again plays a crucial role in the development of the doctrine of
intemporality. For God to be immutable the future could add no knowledge to what he
already knows. This unchangeableness would be present in the eternal now.
The concept of having no transition of thought
Plotinus
The life, then, which belongs to that which exists and is in being, all together and full,
completely without extension or interval, is that which we are looking for, eternity
(Ennead, p.305).
Augustine
For he does not pass from this to that by transition of thought, but beholds all things
with absolute unchangeableness (The City of God, p. 364). Since no new knowledge can
be possible for God there is no transition of thought. Again, Plotinus believed that there is
no extension or interval of thought in eternity.
Augustines idea of immutability was strictly through reason, not Scripture.
Augustines sources for his doctrine of the immutability of God are from his
philosophical and pagan religious background. We find traces of the popular pagan
religions in Augustines theology. Augustine received his doctrine of the immutability of
God directly from pagan religious philosophy. This doctrine influenced Augustine in the
development of other important doctrines of the attributes of God including
predestination, foreknowledge, impassibility and intemporality.
Although Augustine, was raised by a Christian mother, he wandered from the
Christian faith. He developed a love for philosophy. Even though he loved philosophy he
still superstitiously clung to the some aspects of the faith of his mother. One sect, the
Manichees combined the rationalism of the philosophers with the appropriate Godnames like the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, and thus persuaded him to become
a follower of their sect. This lasted for nine years.

The Manicheans stressed rational inquiry over authority. Augustine agreed with this
method of ascertaining truth. Augustine also believed at one time that, in substance, the
Holy Scriptures were unworthy to be compared with the wisdom of the Manicheans. The
Manicheans disliked the Old Testament because it portrayed an angry emotional God
who was considered by the Neoplatonists to be mutable or subject to change. By now,
this Platonic conception of God was common in almost all of the Greek philosophies of
Augustines age: Eugene TeSelle states: People acquainted with philosophical notions of
God were uncomfortable with the anthropomorphisms of the Old Testament (not only
with its descriptions of God but its suggestions that God has human emotions, or changes
his mind) (TeSelle, Augustine the Theologian. New York: Herder and Herder, 1970,
p.30).
Augustine was torn between his mothers religion and the rationalism he admired in
the philosophies of the world. In his travels Augustine went to Milan. The Bishop of
Milan was Ambrose. He offered a solution to Augustines dilemma: a reconciliation
between philosophy and Catholicism. Only after Ambrose allegorized those Old
Testament Scriptures that revealed a mutable God was Augustine able to accept the
Catholic faith. Ambrose allegorized or spiritualized the offending Old Testament
Scripture until Augustine could accept the Christian God. He later wrote, For those
absurdities which in those Scriptures were wont to offend me, after I had heard divers of
them expounded properly, I referred now to the depth of the mystery: yea and the
authority of that Book appeared so much the more venerable, and so much more worthy
of our religious credit. (Augustine. St. Augustine's Confessions I, Loeb Classical
Library, Book VI, Chapter V, p. 285.) Then, Augustine turned to Scriptures after the
absurdities were expounded properly. . . . Seeing therefore mankind would prove too
weak to find out the truth by the way of evident reason, and for this cause was there need
of the authority of Holy Writ.
Although Augustine later had a high regard for Scripture, he allowed reason to first
dictate his ideas about Gods attributes. Then, the details were to be filled by Scriptures.
The most damaging presupposition, which has harmed Christianity the most, was the
immutability of God. This doctrine of immutability influenced his doctrines of
impassibility, predestination, foreknowledge, and intemporality of God. Later, these
doctrines were absorbed by Calvin. This influence of Augustine over Calvin is attested by
Calvinists. For example, Benjamin Warfield wrote, The system of doctrine taught by
Calvin is just the Augustinianism common to the whole body of the Reformersfor the
Reformation was, as from the spiritual point of view a great revival of Augustinianism.
(Warfield, Benjamin. Calvin and Augustine, The Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing
Company, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 1956, p.22))

In Augustines own words: And for this I rejoiced also, for that the Old Scriptures of
the Law and the prophets, were laid before me now, to be perused, not with that eye to
which they seemed most absurd before, whenas I misliked thy holy ones for thinking so
and so: but indeed they did not think so. And with joyful heart I heard Ambrose in his
sermons to the people, most diligently oftentimes recommend this text for a rule unto
them, The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life: whilst those things which taken
according to the letter seemed to teach perverse doctrines, he spiritually laid open to us,
having taken off the veil of the mystery; teaching nothing in it that offended me... (St.
Augustine's Confessions, Book VI, Chapter IV, p. 259). Augustine also explained his
reasoning which reconciled his conversion to the Catholic faith: For first of all the things
began to appear unto me as possible to be defended : and the Catholic faith, in defense of
which I thought nothing could be answered to the Manichees arguments, I now
concluded with myself, might well be maintained without absurdity: especially after I had
heard one or two hard places of the Old Testament resolved now and then; which when I
understood literally, I was slain. Many places therefore of those books having been
spiritually expounded. (Book V, Chapter XIV, p. 259)
What were those literal interpretations that Augustine could not accept literally. One of
them was the mutability of God, that God changes, that God could be influenced and
change his mind from one time to the next in order to adjust to a changeable mankind. In
his Confessions, Augustine explained what literal interpretations were unacceptable.
Among those foolish arguments that Augustine could not answer in defense of
Christianity he wrote: And because God commanded them one thing then, and these
another thing now for certain temporal respects; and yet those of both ages were servants
to the same righteousness, whereas they may observe in one man, and in one day, and in
one house, different things to be fit for different members, and one thing to be lawful
now, which in an hour hence is not so; and something to be permitted or commanded in
one corner, which is forbidden or punished in another. Is Justice thereupon various or
mutable. (Book III, Chapter VII, p. 125)
Remember, the Manicheans believed God could not be mutable and retain his
perfection. Augustine accepted this philosophy as true and attempted to prove this
doctrine in Scripture. In The Morals of the Catholic Church, Augustine explained the
doctrines of the Old Testament that were so absurd. In explaining his dispute with the
Manichaeans we observe his agreement with them about the literal interpretation of the
Old Testament: We do not worship a God who repents, or is envious, or needy, or cruel,
or who takes pleasure in the blood men or beasts, or is pleased with guilt or crime, or
whose possession of the earth is limited to a little corner of it. These and such like are the
silly notions...the fancies of old women or of children...and in those by whom these
passages are literally understood . . . And should any one suppose that anything in Gods
substance or nature can suffer change or conversion, he will be held guilty of wild

profanity. (Oats, W.J., On the Morals of the Catholic Church, Basic Writings of Saint
Augustine, New York: Random House Publishers, 1948, p. 327)
Even though the Old Testament literally shows a mutable, changeable God, Augustine
agreed with the Manicheans that a mutable God was totally unacceptable. In this conflict
between the Platonic doctrine of immutability and the literal interpretation of Scriptures
what had to change? Augustines answer was that the literal interpretation of Scripture
had to change. For Augustine the plain narratives of Scripture had to be reinterpreted by
spiritual or allegorical methods. The Manicheans knew the Old Testament revealed a God
who was mutable or could repent, and they rejected it. Since the Platonists believed that
God was immutable this idea of God repenting was a source of ridicule for the Catholic
Church. Augustine was so embarrassed by these arguments that he chose to reinterpret
Scripture rather than depart from Platonic philosophy.
Did Augustine understand God as immutable from a study of the Scriptures. No!
Augustine was reasoning about God and saw an immutable God in his mind. However,
his reasoning was influenced. Augustine received the concept of the unchangeable or
immutable God from the Neoplatonists. This concept passed right into his Christian
theology without change. It is true that Augustine utilized Scripture in his defense of the
immutability of God, but Scripture was only used to buttress his rationalistic thought of
God. It was a secondary proof: Those things which our faith holds and which reason in
whatever way has traced out, are fortified by the testimonies of the divine Scriptures, so
that those who by reason of feebler intellect are not able to comprehend these things, may
believe the divine authority, and so may deserve to know . . . Accordingly that God is
unchangeable. (Concerning the Nature of the Good, Basic Writings of St. Augustine,
New York: Random House, p. 440.) Notice, Augustine disclosed that reason traced out
the doctrine of immutability.

The Word Repent - Sometimes people change their minds or repent

Ex 13:17 Then it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God did not lead
them by way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest
perhaps the people change their minds repent (they repent) when they see war, and return
to Egypt.

Job 42:1-6 Then Job answered the LORD and said: 2 I know that You can do everything,
and that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You. 3 You asked, Who is this who

hides counsel without knowledge? Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. 4 Listen, please, and let me speak;
You said, I will question you, and you shall answer Me. 5 I have heard of You by the
hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You. 6 Therefore I abhor myself, and repent (I
repent) in dust and ashes.

Sometimes people do not repent

Jer 8:6 I listened and heard, But they do not speak aright. No man repented (!j;nI vyai) of
his wickedness, saying, What have I done? Everyone turned to his own course, as the
horse rushes into the battle.

Dont be like the muleGods response, a Psalm of David

Psalm 32:8-11 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide
you with My eye. 9 Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which have no
understanding, Which must be harnessed with bit and bridle, Else they will not come near
you. 10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked; But he who trusts in the LORD, mercy
shall surround him. 11 Be glad in the LORD and rejoice, you righteous; And shout for
joy, all you upright in heart!

God repents because of wickedness

Gen 6:4-7 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons
of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the
mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness
of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only
evil continually. 6 And the LORD was sorry [hw:hy !j,N:YIw"] that He had made man
on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the LORD said, I will destroy man
whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and
birds of the air, for I am sorry (I repent) that I have made them.
1 Sa 15:11,24-29,35 I repent that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from
following Me, and has not performed My commandments. And it grieved Samuel, and he
cried out to the LORD all night. 24 Then Saul said to Samuel, I have sinned, for I have

transgressed the commandment of the Lord and your words, because I feared the people
and obeyed their voice. 25 Now therefore, please pardon my sin, and return with me,
that I may worship the Lord. 26 But Samuel said to Saul, I will not return with you, for
you have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you from being king
over Israel. 27 And as Samuel turned around to go away, Saul seized the edge of his
robe, and it tore. 28 So Samuel said to him, The Lord has torn the kingdom of Israel
from you today, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you. 29 And
also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent. For He is not a man, that He should
repent. 35 And Samuel went no more to see Saul until the day of his death. Nevertheless
Samuel mourned for Saul, and the LORD repented that He had made Saul king over
Israel.

God repents of disaster or good

Jer 18:1-12 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 Arise and go
down to the potters house, and there I will cause you to hear My words. 3 Then I went
down to the potters house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the
vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into
another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make. 5 Then the word of the LORD
came to me, saying: 6 O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter? says the
LORD. Look, as the clay is in the potters hand, so are you in My hand, O house of
Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up,
to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from
its evil, I will repent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I
speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it
does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will repent concerning the
good with which I said I would benefit it. 11 Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah
and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus says the LORD: Behold, I am
fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil
way, and make your ways and your doings good. 12 And they said, That is hopeless!
So we will walk according to our own plans, and we will every one obey the dictates of
his evil heart.

God repents because of His compassion

Deu 32:36 For the LORD will judge His people and have compassion on His servants,
When He sees that their power is gone, And there is no one remaining, bond or free.

Jud 2:18 And when the LORD raised up judges for them, the LORD was with the judge
and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for the
LORD was moved to pity by their groaning because of those who oppressed them and
harassed them.
2 Sa 24:15-16 So the LORD sent a plague upon Israel from the morning till the appointed
time. From Dan to Beersheba seventy thousand men of the people died. 16 And when the
angel stretched out His hand over Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented from the
destruction, and said to the angel who was destroying the people, It is enough; now
restrain your hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah
the Jebusite.
1 Ch 21:14-15 So the LORD sent a plague upon Israel, and seventy thousand men of
Israel fell. 15 And God sent an angel to Jerusalem to destroy it. As he was destroying, the
LORD looked and repented of the disaster, and said to the angel who was destroying, It
is enough; now restrain your hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshing
floor of Ornan the Jebusite.
Psa 106:43-45 Many times He delivered them; But they rebelled in their counsel, And
were brought low for their iniquity. 44 Nevertheless He regarded their affliction when He
heard their cry; 45 And for their sake He remembered His covenant and repented
according to the multitude of His mercies.
Joel 2:12-14 Now, therefore, says the LORD, Turn to Me with all your heart, with fasting,
with weeping, and with mourning. 13 So rend your heart, and not your garments; Return
to the LORD your God, For He is gracious and merciful, Slow to anger, and of great
kindness; And He repents from doing harm. 14 Who knows if He will turn and repent and
leave a blessing behind HimA grain offering and a drink offering for the LORD your
God?

God repents of stated harm because of prayer

Ex 32:9-14 And the LORD said to Moses, I have seen this people, and indeed it is a
stiff-necked people! 10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against
them and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation. 11 Then Moses
pleaded with the LORD his God, and said: LORD, why does Your wrath burn hot
against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power
and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, He brought them

out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of
the earth? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and repent from this harm to Your people. 13
Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own
self, and said to them, I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all
this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it
forever. 14 So the LORD repented from the harm which He said He would do to His
people.
Amos 7:1-6 Thus the Lord GOD showed me: Behold, He formed locust swarms at the
beginning of the late crop; indeed it was the late crop after the kings mowings. 2 And so
it was, when they had finished eating the grass of the land, that I said: O Lord GOD,
forgive, I pray! Oh, that Jacob may stand, For he is small! 3 So the LORD repented
concerning this. It shall not be, said the LORD. 4 Thus the Lord GOD showed me:
Behold, the Lord GOD called for conflict by fire, and it consumed the great deep and
devoured the territory. 5 Then I said: O Lord GOD, cease, I pray! Oh, that Jacob may
stand, For he is small! 6 So the LORD repented concerning this. This also shall not be,
said the Lord GOD.

God doesnt repent in certain situations. The context shows why.

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should
repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it
good?
1 Sa 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent. For He is not a man,
that He should repent.
Psa 110:1-4 A Psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand, Till I
make Your enemies Your footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out
of Zion. Rule in the midst of Your enemies! 3 Your people shall be volunteers In the day
of Your power; In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning, You have the
dew of Your youth. 4 The LORD has sworn and will not repent, You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.

God wants to repent

Jer 26:3,13,19 Perhaps everyone will listen and turn from his evil way, that I may repent
concerning the calamity which I purpose to bring on them because of the evil of their
doings. 13 Now therefore, amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the
LORD your God; then the LORD will repent concerning the doom that He has
pronounced against you. 19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah ever put him to
death? Did he not fear the LORD and seek the LORDs favor? And the Lord repented
concerning the doom which He had pronounced against them.
Jer 42:7,9-10 the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah. 9 and said to them, Thus says the
LORD, the God of Israel, to whom you sent me to present your petition before Him: 10
If you will still remain in this land, then I will build you and not pull you down, and I
will plant you and not pluck you up. For I repent concerning the disaster that I have
brought upon you.

God will not or did not repent.

Jer 4:27-28 For thus says the LORD: The whole land shall be desolate; Yet I will not
make a full end. 28 For this shall the earth mourn and the heavens above be black,
because I have spoken. I have purposed and will not repent, nor will I turn back from it.
Jer 20:16 And let that man be like the cities which the LORD overthrew, and did not
repent; Let him hear the cry in the morning And the shouting at noon,
Eze 24:13-14 In your filthiness is lewdness. Because I have cleansed you, and you were
not cleansed, You will not be cleansed of your filthiness anymore till I have caused My
fury to rest upon you. 14 I, the LORD, have spoken it; It shall come to pass, and I will do
it; I will not hold back nor will I spare nor will I repent; According to your ways and
according to your deeds they will judge you, says the Lord GOD.

God even was weary of repenting.

Jer 15:6 You have forsaken Me, says the LORD, You have gone backward. Therefore I
will stretch out My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of repenting!

God is displeased and wonders

Isa 59:15-16 So truth fails, And he who departs from evil makes himself a prey. Then the
LORD saw it, and it displeased Him That there was no justice. 16 He saw that there was
no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor; Therefore His own arm brought
salvation for Him; And His own righteousness, it sustained Him.
Psa 78:40-41 How often they provoked Him in the wilderness, And grieved Him in the
desert! 41 Yes, again and again they tempted God, And limited the Holy One of Israel.

God hopes or wishes

Deu 5:28,29 Then the LORD heard the voice of your words when you spoke to me, and
the LORD said to me: I have heard the voice of the words of this people which they have
spoken to you. They are right in all that they have spoken. 29 Oh, that they had such a
heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My commandments, that it
might be well with them and with their children forever!
Psa 81:8-13 Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you! O Israel, if you will listen to
Me! 9 there shall be no foreign god among you; Nor shall you worship any foreign god.
10 I am the LORD your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Open your
mouth wide, and I will fill it. 11 But My people would not heed My voice, And Israel
would have none of Me. 12 So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart, To walk in
their own counsels. 13 Oh, that My people would listen to Me, That Israel would walk in
My ways!
Isa 48:17-18 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: I am the
LORD your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.
18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments! Then your peace would have been like a
river, And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who
are sent to her! How often I wanted [hqelhsa] to gather your children together, as a hen
gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing [ouk hqelhsate]!

God laments over other peoples

Isa 15:5 My heart will cry out for Moab; His fugitives shall flee to Zoar, Like a threeyear-old heifer. For by the Ascent of Luhith They will go up with weeping; For in the
way of Horonaim They will raise up a cry of destruction,
Isa 16:6-13 We have heard of the pride of MoabHe is very proudOf his haughtiness
and his pride and his wrath; But his lies shall not be so. 7 Therefore Moab shall wail for
Moab; Everyone shall wail. For the foundations of Kir Hareseth you shall mourn; Surely
they are stricken. 8 For the fields of Heshbon languish, And the vine of Sibmah; The
lords of the nations have broken down its choice plants, Which have reached to Jazer And
wandered through the wilderness. Her branches are stretched out, They are gone over the
sea. 9 Therefore I will bewail the vine of Sibmah, With the weeping of Jazer; I will
drench you with my tears, O Heshbon and Elealeh; For battle cries have fallen Over your
summer fruits and your harvest. 10 Gladness is taken away, And joy from the plentiful
field; In the vineyards there will be no singing, Nor will there be shouting; No treaders
will tread out wine in the presses; I have made their shouting cease. 11 Therefore my
heart shall resound like a harp for Moab, And my inner being for Kir Heres. 12 And it
shall come to pass, When it is seen that Moab is weary on the high place, That he will
come to his sanctuary to pray; But he will not prevail. 13 This is the word which the
LORD has spoken concerning Moab since that time.
Question: ...the Puritans... ...were masters of prayer and had a belief that God moves and
works in...
Michael Kinzie wrote:
Greetings Mr. Hill,
I appreciate your candor and passion for Biblical truth. I am presently at
work so I have to make this brief. In response to the prayer issue. If
you do any reading of the Puritans you will see that they were masters of
prayer and had a belief that God moves and works in and for His people.
Even our confession the Westminster Conf. says that things happen because
God moves people and events in redemptive history through secondary causes.
Secondly. I find places in the Scripture were God does know exactly what
men are going to do right down to the very smallest detail. I will sight
scripture later. But one would be with Christ and Peter's denial not to
mention the OT prophesies against cities were the details are laid out for
us.
Any way, I will try to write to you, if that is ok, later when I have more
time.
I look forward to your interaction.
Thanks,

Michael
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
Dear Michael,
We are privy to the meeting that went on in heaven at the time of Job in Job 1:6-12,
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord,
and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, From where do you
come? So Satan answered the Lord and said, From going to and fro on the earth, and
from walking back and forth on it. 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, Have you considered
My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one
who fears God and shuns evil? 9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, Does Job fear
God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and
around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his
possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all
that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face! 12 And the Lord said to Satan,
Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person. So Satan
went out from the presence of the Lord.
We all know what happened, but Job did not know what took place in heaven. A long
time later, just before our Savior was going to die for our sins, there was another counsel.
satan (I dont like to capitalize his name.) was up to his dirty works again. He asked
permission to sift Peter. Christ was in touch with the Holy Spirit enough to know that
satan was given the permission to take Peter beyond what he could handle. We call this
the law of cause and effect and contrast it with the law of freedom.
Cause and effect never develops character. For instance, a pew is not good because it
holds people. Man made it that way. When the law of cause and effect is in place, it
cannot be resisted. Therefore, will loses its freedom in these instances. Instead, outside
influence becomes causal. Cause and effect may not produce moral responsibility. In
Peters case, since he did not survive a fairly minor testing of his faith, he did learn by
this humbling experience. In this incident, Christ knew that satan had permission to take
Peter beyond Peters ability. He had told him in Luke 22:31, Simon, Simon! Indeed,
Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that
your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.
when you have returned to Me shows us that satan was going to be able to test him
beyond what Peter was able to withstand in his own strength.
Heres the whole account in Luke: 22:29-34 And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as
My Father bestowed one upon Me, 30 that you may eat and drink at My table in My

kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 31 And the Lord said,
Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I
have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me,
strengthen your brethren. 33 But he said to Him, Lord, I am ready to go with You, both
to prison and to death. 34 Then He said, I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this
day before you will deny three times that you know Me.
I believe we have other examples of this law. Here are some other passages where I think
this law was in effect: Ezra 1:1; 5:5; 7:27; 9:9; Pro 21:1; Isa 44:24-28; 45:1-4,13; 46:911; Jer 29:10; 51:11,12,29; Eze 38:1-4,16,18,21-23; 39:1-6,8.
The Law of Freedom is different. It allows the development of character, because it
allows a real choice. This law produces moral responsibility, but it also causes
contingency to exist. A few of the examples I have found are: Jer 18:6-8; 26:2,3; 36:3;
38:17; Eze 18:19-31.
In my mind, the application of these laws to certain passages clears up problems. For
instance, the future actions of men under the law of freedom are unknowable because
they are not caused by God. Because of this, there are some things God does not know
before hand: Gen 22:12 And He said, Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything
to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your
only son, from Me.
Even when God thinks or says something will happen, it may not happen under the law
of freedom. God said (wa omar), She will return to Me! But she did not return (Jer
3:7). God is also limited in His promises to bless when man does not do as He commands
(Psa 78:41). Even promises that appear to be unconditional may be broken (Ex 23:27-31;
33:1,2; 34:10; Deu 7:1; Josh 1:4,5; 3:10; 15:63; 16:10; Jud 2:1-3,20-23; 3:1-4,5). Lets
look at Joshua 3:10 as an example: And Joshua said, By this you shall know that the
living God is among you, and that He will without fail drive out from before you the
Canaanites and the Hittites and the Hivites and the Perizzites and the Girgashites and the
Amorites and the Jebusites. But it didnt happen.
God even broke a sworn promise because of disobedience in Num 14:23,30,34: they
certainly shall not see the land of which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those
who rejected Me see it. 24 But My servant Caleb, because he has a different spirit in him
and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land where he went, and his descendants
shall inherit it. 25Now the Amalekites and the Canaanites dwell in the valley; tomorrow
turn and move out into the wilderness by the Way of the Red Sea. 26 And the Lord
spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying, 27 How long shall I bear with this evil congregation
who complain against Me? I have heard the complaints which the children of Israel make

against Me. 28 Say to them, As I live, says the Lord, just as you have spoken in My
hearing, so I will do to you: 29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me
shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire
number, from twenty years old and above. 30 Except for Caleb the son of Jephunneh and
Joshua the son of Nun, you shall by no means enter the land which I swore I would make
you dwell in. 31 But your little ones, whom you said would be victims, I will bring in,
and they shall know the land which you have despised. 32 But as for you, your carcasses
shall fall in this wilderness. 33 And your sons shall be shepherds in the wilderness forty
years, and bear the brunt of your infidelity, until your carcasses are consumed in the
wilderness. 34 According to the number of the days in which you spied out the land, forty
days, for each day you shall bear your guilt one year, namely forty years, and you shall
know My rejection.
After God had seen that everything was good, about 1,000 years later, when God saw the
extreme wickedness of man, He was sorry He had made him. In fact, He repented that He
had made him (Gen 6:5-7). God also repented in many other situations. Here are some
examples: Ex 32:7-14; Deu 9:8-25; 1 Sa 15:11,35; 2 Sa 24:16; 1 Ch 21:15; Jer 4:28; 15:6;
20:16; 26:19; Joel 2:13; Jon 3:10. Isaiah also prophesied by the word of the Lord that
Hezekiah would die soon in 2 Ki 20:1-5, but he didnt, because Hezekiah prayed.
However, there are some circumstances where God said He would not repent. The
context of these passages shows why (Num 23:19; 1 Sa 15:29; Psa 110:4).
When God foreknows, declares, or prophesies an event as being sure, to make sure, He
must make it happen. This is why foreknowledge indirectly causes things to happen (Isa
14:24; 44:28; 46:9-11; Rom 8:29).
So that why Christ could know that Peter was going to deny Him.
Thank you for being gracious Michael.
Love in Christ,
Bob Hill
Question:... Mr. Boyd... ...to be heretical and out side the pale of orthodoxy on this view
of God.
From: "Michael KinzieWed, 9 Feb 2000 09:25
Openness View of God
Subject: Openness View of God

Greetings Mr. Bob Hill,

I would like to preface my comments with the following. I really enjoy the work that the
KGOV people (in particular Bob Enyart, who I support financially, and Doug McBurney)
have been doing for Christ and the cultural in general and to this end I have a question.
Beware when someone starts off affirming your good deeds for you know that the ax is
going to fall. Just kidding.
On to my question. On your Biblical Answers show dated 2/3 "TULIP: The five points
of Calvinism", you made mention of the "Openness of God View". You also made
mention of the work of a man named Gregory Boyd who has written some very helpful
books against the cults and liberal theology. Any way I am getting long-winded. I was
just wondering if you were aware of the fact that Mr. Boyd (this is his web
site:http://www.gregboyd.org/ and a related web site that is addressing the concern over
Openness theology:
http://www.bgc.bethel.edu/4know/4know.htm) has been considered by some (Michael
Horton:
http://www.alliancenet.org/, RC Sproul: http://www.gospelcom.net/ligonier/, Hank
Hanegraaff etc. to be heretical and out side the pale of orthodoxy on this view of God.
Have you looked into this theology and its implications on God's sovereignty? Lest you
think that this is a Calvinist thing Hank would not consider himself to be fully Calvinistic
or to use a better term Reformed.
I am not accusing you or your ministry of following any heretical line of thinking but
since I do respect the overall work that you are doing as I mentioned earlier I am just
would like more clarity from you on this issue. I am a Reformed Presbyterian and in spite
of this I am more than willing to support you both prayerfully and financially. My only
concern is that we try to, if not avoid, at least carefully examine the works of those whom
we follow. This goes for myself as well.
I would strongly suggest, if you would allow me to, that you look at some of the debates
that have been held in the past on this very topic. To which I would point you to the work
of Michael Horton and the A.C.E. group. You may even consider purchasing the
following tape series: "The Megashift Debate" a 2 vol. set located at:
http://www.AllianceNet.org/ and hear the
debates with Horton, Rice and Pinnock.

I hope my question was somewhat coherent. If you can't respond on your radio show
then feel free, if time permits, to email me back.
PS as always I am a recovering public school alumni so feel free to correct any incorrect
spelling, grammar, ie. misplaced subjunctive or any incoherent thoughts.
God Bless,
From Michael Kinzie in Sheridan, IN.
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
Dear Michael,
Thank you for your gracious email. This week, Feb 12, I will be 67 years old. About 40
years ago, my wife and I visited her parents in Chicago. I was a strong Calvinist at the
time, but I had a rotten prayer life. I believed God predestined everything including my
prayers, their answers and my attitudes about such things.
My father in law had a large theological library. I was browsing through it and found a
book written by William Bierderwolf, How Can God Answer Prayer. Since I had such a
lousy prayer life and knew that the Bible admonished us to pray, I read it for some
answers. One of them was that God did not know the future actions of free agents. I was
astounded. I was even more astounded when I saw the Scripture that was presented to
back it up. Since that time, I have spent thousands of hours studying the character and
attributes of God. I'm convinced that God repents just like the Bible says in over 20
different places in the OT.
You can read what I believe on biblicalanswers.com. Read my booklet, Predestination
and Free Will first, then Greek Philosophy, the Basis of Calvinism to see what I have now
held for about 40 years.
In our Derby School of Theology, we use texts written by covenant theologians as well as
others. We critique them all. Only God's word is beyond being critiqued. These men who
call others heretics would have been called heretics before Luther started the
Reformation. It's too easy to call people heretics. We look to God's word. What does it
say? If that disagrees with what theologians say, so be it.
I appreciate your concern and the information on the web sites.
May the Lord bless you,

Bob Hill
Question: ...some people are chosen (elected, predestined) to go to heaven and some are
not?
Name: Sonya French
Comments:
I have always been comforted in the belief that salvation was a gift to all who would
receive it. Not that everyone is going to heaven, but those who choose to accept the gift
will be saved. (John 3:16-21) However, recently in a study of Romans, we have been
taught that indeed the gift is only offered to those whom God as predestines to receive it.
As an illustration of this truth, our leader offers that God chose Isreal over all other
nations, Abraham over all other men (humans) alive at the time, Isaac over Ishmael,
Jacob over Esau even saying "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." (Rom 9:13) Our study has
also shown us that God chose to harden the heart of Pharaoh in order that his (God's)
power might be displayed and his (God's ) name would be proclaimed on all the earth
(Rom 9:17). And Romans 9:18 makes it clear that God has mercy on whom he wants to
have mercy and hardens whom he wants to harden. I do not question the sovereignty of
God. I accept that he is God and I am not!
I do not mean to question why this is his way. My question is this: Does this mean
that some people are chosen (elected, predestined) to go to heaven and some are not?
This being the case, doesn't it necessarily follow that some are chosen to go to hell? Isn't
this contrary to the teaching that God loves us and desires us to come to him? I am not
talking about foreknowledge, as this is not the same issue. I am talking about what seems
to be the eternal damnation of some people at the hand of God. I am not a Christian who
believes that God is all love, there is no wrath or anger or consequence for sin and noone
goes to hell. I very much believe in hell as a real and eternal place of misery. This is the
cause of my concern. I know people who are unsaved at this point (one of whom is my
child), and I know that many die without salvation. I am just really distressed at the
thought that God specifically created some for heaven and others for hell. I accept the
Bible as the true word of God and I know I am the clay and I should not question it.
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
Dear Sonya,
When I got saved, I was discipled by a guy who was a strong Calvinist. He showed me a
bunch of stuff in Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 that made me agree with him that God chose

some to be saved. I studied with the preconceived ideas that God knew the future acts of
everyone and had to come to the conclusion that He knew everything and what everyone
would do. This really affected my prayer life. I was too logical. If God knows what I am
going to pray, and if God can't be wrong, and if what I am doing was predestine by God,
why should I pray?
Well, when I read a book by William Beiderwolf, How Can God Answer Prayer, I was
challenged to completely rethink my whole theology of God's knowledge of future events
and the predestination or free-will controversy. The first thing that cracked was God's
alleged immutability. I found that this was the foundation of my misconception about
God, and the foundation of the Calvinistic view of predestination.
I had to investigate a number of questions that I thought were absolutely supported by
Scripture. I asked: "Is God immutable? Is He impassible - not influenced by our
problems? Does God ever change? The question was not, does God change in His
attributes, because the Bible showed me that He doesn't. I found that He is omnipotent.
He is always holy. God is light. God is omniscient. God is love. And, He has many other
attributes that do not change. But, again, that was not the question. The questions I had to
answer were now different. Did God ever repent? Did God ever change His mind? Did
God think something would happen, and then it didn't? Did God ever show emotion? Did
He change in any way in the emotional state of His being? I believe the answer to all
these questions is yes. These ideas, instead of degrading God, helped me to appreciate
and glorify Him even more than I did.
I found that He does do the things asked in these questions, but the most significant
fact for me concerned His supposed impassibility - He suffers. In other words, He has
passion. This is the opposite of having no passion - impassibility.
God suffers! What comfort that now gives me. Our God is touched by our sufferings.
God suffers because of us, with us, and for us. For instance, in Hosea 11:1-4,8,9 it says,
When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son. As they called
them, so they went from them. They sacrificed to the Baals, and burned incense to carved
images. I taught Ephraim to walk, taking them by their arms, but they did not know that I
healed them. I drew them with gentle cords, with bands of love, and I was to them as
those who take the yoke from their neck. I stooped and fed them. . . . My people are bent
on backsliding from Me. Though they call to the Most High, none at all exalt Him. How
can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel? How can I make you like
Admah? How can I set you like Zeboiim? My heart churns within Me; My sympathy is
stirred. I will not execute the fierceness of My anger. I will not again destroy Ephraim.
For I am God, and not man, The Holy One in your midst, and I will not come with terror.

However, I discovered that I had been influenced by the Greek philosophy that has
permeated Christianity. I was informed that a perfect God couldn't suffer. But He can.
When tragedy strikes, when pain pierces deep - we are not the only ones who suffer. God
suffers longer and deeper than all of us put together. Where did this idea, the idea that
God can't suffer, come from? It came from philosophy, not the Bible. I found the oldest
impact on western civilization came from Socrates and his popularizer, Plato.
In addition to the material by Plato, Christian theology has also been influenced by
Aristotle's book, Metaphysics. That pagan philosopher, Aristotle, was born in 384 BC.
Listen! "There must be something which, existing in full actuality, produces motion
without being moved. That something cannot be otherwise than it is in any respect."
This line of reasoning led to the doctrine of the impassibility of God. This means,
nothing can affect God. He continued,
"It is clear from the foregoing argument that there is some essential individuality that
is eternal and immutable and distinct from perceptible things. . . . this individuality must
be unaffected by anything and unalterable .... [and finally, after making some comments
about the divine mind, he wrote,] what it thinks of is what is most divine and most
worthy of esteem. And in this It is unchanging, because any change would be for the
worse, and would be a kind of motion."
Although this philosophy flies in the face of God's word, it became the intellectual
basis of church doctrine. It continues to this day. They say, "God can't feel and can't
change." Because of this, He can't love, can't suffer, and can't be influenced. However,
the Bible says frequently - He does love; He does suffer; He is influenced by prayer; and
He does repent or change. In fact, we know He loved the world so much that He gave
Himself. He descended into our suffering and suffered for us. What a God! Look at the
following passages: "Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things
which He suffered" (Heb 5:8). "Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people
with His own blood, suffered outside the gate" (Heb 13:12). "For to this you were called,
because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example . . . Who committed no sin, nor
was deceit found in His mouth; Who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when
He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously"
(1 Pet 2:21-23). According to Romans 5:8, this almighty God, "demonstrates His own
love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Therefore, I came
to the conclusion that the impassibility of God is not found in the Bible. It is only found
in rationalistic thinking influenced by Greek philosophy.

Immutability is discussed more frequently by modern theologians. It is similar to

impassibility. It means unchanging. There are some portions of Scripture which say God
does not change. For instance, Malachi 3:6 says "For I am the Lord, I do not change;
therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob." But this just means He is not going to
go back on His promise to David. That's what Psalm 132:10,11 shows, "For Your servant
David's sake, do not turn away the face of Your Anointed. The Lord has sworn in truth to
David. He will not turn from it: 'I will set upon your throne the fruit of your body.'"
Some Scripture shows God's anguish over Israel's ungodly behavior. God was
speaking about Israel and Judah like this in Jeremiah 3:8-10:
The Lord said also to me in the days of Josiah the king: "Have you seen what
backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every
green tree, and there played the harlot. And I said, after she had done all these things, she
will return to Me.' But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. Then I
saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put
her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not
fear, but went and played the harlot also. So it came to pass, through her casual harlotry,
that she defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and trees. And yet for all this
her treacherous sister Judah has not turned to Me with her whole heart, but in pretense,"
says the Lord.
[I modified the NKJV from "return to me to she will return to Me. My modification of the
New King James is based upon the Hebrew. Also confer the following translations: ASV,
And I said after she had done all these things, she will return unto me; but she returned
not: and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. Darby, And I said, after she hath done all
these things, she will return unto me; but she returned not. And her sister Judah, the
treacherous, saw it. NASB, And I thought, "After she has done all these things, she will
return to Me"; but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. NIV, I
thought that after she had done all this she would return to me but she did not, and her
unfaithful sister Judah saw it. NRSV, And I thought, "After she has done all this she will
return to me"; but she did not return, and her false sister Judah saw it.]
God thought or said [The Hebrew word is wa omar "and I said". Some translate it, "and I
thought"] that Israel would return to Him. He expected Israel to return. But Israel grieved
Him again. She did not return.
In a similar manner, God spoke of Israel in Isaiah 5:1-4:
"Now let me sing to my Well-beloved a song of my Beloved regarding His vineyard: My
Well-beloved has a vineyard on a very fruitful hill. He dug it up and cleared out its

stones, and planted it with the choicest vine. He built a tower in its midst, and also made
a winepress in it; so He expected it to bring forth good grapes. But it brought forth wild
grapes. And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, Judge, please, between
Me and My vineyard. What more could have been done to My vineyard that I have not
done in it? Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes, did it bring forth
wild grapes?"
God was grieved by their response to His graciousness. He expected good fruit, but there
was none. God did all He could do with free agents. "What more could have been done to
My vineyard that I have not done in it?" They rebelled. Further, the New Testament
shows us that the Holy Spirit can be grieved (Eph 4:30).
There are some portions of Scripture which genuinely say God does change His mind.
Here are some of the most obvious ones. In Genesis 6:5-7, God shows His passion and
mutability. The AV stated it well:
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every
imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the
LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD
said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and
beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have
made them."
The NIV translated it this way:
"The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every
inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved
that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said,
"I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth-men and animals,
and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air-for I am grieved that I have
made them."
Either way you translate it, the mildest translation shows God was grieved. He was
sorry that He had created man. It caused the impassible God to have intense feeling. It
was the cause for the immutable God to change His mind. This didn't just happen once. It
happened repeatedly.
What does it mean when this word nacham, repent, is used for God's actions?
Calvinists like to call this action an anthropomorphism or and anthropopathism, but is our
God such a poor communicator that He would continually use a figure of speech which
showed He repented, was grieved, or changed His mind, if the opposite idea was the

truth? Of course not! My God is the greatest communicator! This Hebrew word, in any of
its translations, undermines the rationalistic idea of immutability derived from Greek
philosophy. As I had to, we must all jettison our preconceived ideas and return to God's
word for an understanding of His nature and works.
Because of many incidences like these, in Psalm 78:38-41 it says,
"But He, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and did not destroy them. Yes,
many a time He turned His anger away, and did not stir up all His wrath; For He
remembered that they were but flesh, a breath that passes away and does not come again.
How often they provoked Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert! Yes,
again and again they tempted God and limited the Holy One of Israel."
Later, God expressed His passion. In Jeremiah 15:6, God even said, "I am weary of
repenting!" In these passages we not only see that God changed his mind ten times
(mutability), but He was weary (passion) of repenting.
God's repentance when He changed His mind after Moses prayed in Exodus 32:9-14
shows us something about God's foreknowledge. We understand from Titus 1:2, "God,
who cannot lie," [Robertson translated this in his Word Pictures, "The non-lying God."]
that God does not lie. Since He does not lie, could He have told Moses that He was going
to destroy the nation when He knew He was not. No! On the other hand, if God changed
His mind because Moses prayed, He did not lie.
God made many contingent promises. He even stated in 1 Samuel 13:13,14 that He
would have established Saul's kingdom forever.
"And Samuel said to Saul, 'You have done foolishly. You have not kept the
commandment of the Lord your God, which He commanded you. For now the Lord
would have established your kingdom over Israel forever. But now your kingdom shall
not continue. The Lord has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and the Lord
has commanded him to be commander over His people, because you have not kept what
the Lord commanded you."
Saul had disobeyed, and his kingdom was not established at all. Instead, in 1 Samuel 16,
Samuel anointed David.
Does this mean that God does not know any of the future? Of course not. God knows
the future of the events He predetermines. In fact, that is what the Scriptures show us. For
instance, He said in Romans,

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined,
these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified,
these He also glorified" (8:29-32).
Also, in Isaiah 46:9-11, God shows us how He can declare what is going to happen in the
future. He knows the future that He makes happen.
"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet
done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure, calling a bird of prey
from the east, the man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have
spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.'" He makes a
similar statement in Eph 1:11, "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being
predestined according to the purpose of Him who works [the] all things according to the
counsel of His will." The specific all things He is referring to is the body of Christ of
verses 10 and 23, "that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather
together in one the all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth in Him (1:10); "which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills the all things in all"
(1:23).
This has to do with our eternal security, since "He chose us in Him before the
foundation of the world, [to] be holy and without blame before Him in love, having
predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good
pleasure of His will" (1:4,5). He chose the body of Christ to be holy and blameless before
Him making it sure by His predestination. It doesn't say He chose us as individuals to be
saved. It says He chose us in Him. Because we are in Christ, we are chosen. Christ is the
elect one. We become members of the body of Christ by believing. Once we believe - we
are part of the predestined corporation. My conclusion is: We are not foreknown,
predestined or chosen as individuals. All this is done to us as a corporation-the body of
Christ.
According to John 1:9, everyone has been enlightened by Jesus Christ, "That was the
true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world." The father has drawn
everyone who will listen, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws
him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all
be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes
to Me" (John 6:44,45). The Son draws everyone. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth,
will draw all to Myself" (John 12:32). The Holy Spirit testifies of Christ. "But when the
Helper comes . . . the Spirit of truth . . . He will testify of Me" (John 15:26). It is up to
each person to respond to the call of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Since God did not predestinate individuals to be saved, we must be sure we take the
opportunities to present the gospel of grace to everyone. We should pray for boldness to
open our mouths to present the mystery just as Paul did in Ephesians 6:19, "Pray . . . for
me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known
the mystery of the gospel."
Sonya, you mentioned some passages in Romans 9. This looked like a strong fatalism
chapter, but after I studied it, I found that the predetermination has nothing to do with
salvation. It only concerns service. I have cut and pasted this material from my booklet,
Predestination and Free Will.
10,11 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our
father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that
the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls)
God has always chosen His own special ways to bring redemption. He used Jacob, not
because he had done any good works, but because He chose to. He did not use Esau,
although he had not done any evil, again, because He chose to. He has the right to choose
individual people for service to bring the promise. God can do this and be perfectly just,
because God can have mercy on whomever He pleases. Therefore, we have no right to
question God, for God can do whatever He wants to with His creation. The Jews had no
right to question God's authority to use anyone He pleased to bring the message of
redemption. In fact, God endured those who were fit for destruction and demonstrated
His riches on the vessels of mercy by calling a new group from Jews and Gentiles. This
group is the "us" of verse 24, referring to Christians. Therefore, the Gentiles gained
righteousness though they didn't pursue it. This was possible because Jesus Christ made
God's righteousness available by His faithfulness culminating in His death (Rom 3:2126). However, Israel didn't attain to righteousness because they sought it by the works of
the law instead of faith. In fact, they stumbled over true righteousness (Rom 9:30-33). So,
the answer to the question, "How could God have abandoned Israel?" is clear. God can do
as He pleases. He chose Israel. Now He has decided to choose a group from Israel and
the Gentiles based on the righteousness of faith. If Israel misses out, it's her fault.
These concepts are illustrated frequently in this chapter. Ishmael was rejected. He was
the child of the flesh. He was the child of the flesh because Abraham and Sarah took it
into their own hands to produce the promised seed apart from God. Abraham went in to
Hagar, and she conceived. This does not mean Ishmael couldn't become a believer. He
could have been saved, but he was not a man of faith. He persecuted Isaac (Gal 3:28,29).
We see then that Ishmael becomes the personification of a child of the flesh.

In verse 11, we see that God's principle as recorded in Hebrews 10:9 is, "He takes
away the first that He may establish the second." This seems to be the basis of His
purpose according to election. It's not of works but is based on His calling. This election
is not to salvation. It is for God's purpose. I think that His primary purpose is the
provision of salvation by our Savior.
12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."
To begin with, even though Jacob consistently duped Esau, Esau never really served
Jacob. In fact, almost the opposite was true. How then was this prophecy true? We must
look at the quotation's context. "And the LORD said to her: "Two nations are in your
womb, two peoples shall be separated from your body; one people shall be stronger than
the other, and the older shall serve the younger" (Gen 25:23). Notice, it explicitly says,
"Two nations are in your womb." God was not dealing with the individuals here. He was
dealing with two nations. Israel was His chosen people. Edom (Esau) was not. In the
future, Edom will be the servant of Israel.
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
This verse is like the previous one with one great exception. This reference is from the
last book of the Old Testament. This was about a thousand years after Jacob and Esau
were born. When we look at the context of Malachi 1, we see that He is again talking
about the two nations. It doesn't mean He loved everyone in Israel or hated everyone in
Edom, for we find repeatedly how wrathful He got with Israel and destroyed some among
them. Therefore, this love and hate was not against the individual men Jacob and Esau,
but towards the nations. It was recorded after the nations had been in existence for a long
time.
We must consider another point. This hate is not necessarily absolute. In Luke 14:26,
the hate is certainly relative. "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and
mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be
My disciple." I think the hate in Malachi and Romans 9:13 is also relative. It may relate
to God's sovereign choice among the nations.
14,15 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For
He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have
compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
There is no unrighteousness with God. He always conducts Himself in a just way.
Now He shows us how He conducts Himself. He shows us that the Jews can't restrict
Him to the only option they think He must take, always treating Israel as the top nation.

God shows that He makes His decisions based on His clearly defined principles. The
fifteenth verse shows that He can display His mercy to anyone He desires. Israel cannot
put restraints on Him. In this passage, you can't escape the issue of selection. God has
mercy on whomever He pleases. The point here is, was God unrighteous to choose Jacob
as the one to receive favored status as a nation? The Jew would naturally answer, "No!"
But, putting ethnic advantage aside, why? Because God has the right to show mercy to
whomever He pleases. If He wants to choose one for service but not the other, He can do
that. He chose Jacob but not Esau. The Jews liked that decision. Esau could have "willed"
or "run" as much as he pleased. He could have been saved or have been the most godly
man who ever lived. And Jacob could have been a rat (And he was.), but Jacob still
would have been chosen. Paul's point here is, God chose Israel as a favored nation above
all others, not because of her worthiness or goodness above others, but simply because
He has the right to select one and not the other.
God has the complete freedom to do as He desires. His principle for salvation is laid
out when Paul completes this section on Israel's place by summation in Rom 11:32, "For
God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all." Further,
we see that His desire is to save everyone, not just Israel. When we consult Exodus 33:19,
"Then He said, I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the
name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will
have compassion on whom I will have compassion," we see from the context that this
quote was a response to Moses because Moses had "found grace in My sight, and I know
you by name." Moses had pleased God by his obedience and intercessory behavior. I
think the passage should be translated, "I will have mercy on whomever I want to have
mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I want to have compassion." Again, we
see from Romans 11:32 that for salvation, He wants to have mercy on everyone.
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
We have to consider what is not of the willing or running one. What is of the mercy
showing God? It could be His stated purpose. It could be the provision of salvation. It
could be the act of election for a purpose. It could be the concept that He wants all to be
saved. But it is not talking about being saved. The principles of salvation for the covenant
people were laid down by God in Genesis 17 and later in the law. The principles of
salvation for this dispensation are laid out in Paul's epistles and the later part of Acts. The
circumcision epistles do not apply to us in the area of salvation. Both sets of principles
are of God who shows mercy. But, although the methods of salvation are different for the
different dispensations, the means of God's grace is the same. It is the death of His dear
Son. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with
one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I
may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."
First we must read the context of this statement from Exodus 9:16. We see that the
magicians could not stand before Moses. They may have died in this plague while God
protected Pharaoh and raised him up for God's stated purpose. Therefore, I don't think
God raised Pharaoh up to become the king of Egypt just to knock him down. He seems to
have raised him from the infection of boils and also strengthened his resolve in the face
of these awful plagues so He could continue to show in him His power and punish him
for his unrepentant heart. Other expositors agree with this idea. For instance, Rotherham
translated this passage in his The Emphasized Bible as follows: "For now might I have
put forth my hand, and smitten thee and thy people with pestilence, and thou shouldst
have secretly disappeared from the earth; but indeed for this very purpose have I let thee
remain, for the purpose of showing thee my might, and that my name may be celebrated
in all the earth." Adam Clarke translated this, "But truly, on this very account, I have
caused thee to subsist, that I may . . ." Forster and Marston said in God's Strategy in
Human History, "The context of Paul's reference is, after all, that of God's general
dealings ('raising up' or 'making to stand'), not of any specific act of God.
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
Now, does God harden people? Some believe that God elects some to be saved but
reprobates the rest - actually actively consigns them to hell. Now is that what this verse is
teaching? Let's look at an illustration. Let's put a lump of moist clay and a lump of hard
wax on the window sill of the south side of the building in the hot sun. Now, the sun
graciously shines down with its sunlight on a nice sunny Colorado afternoon. If we come
back a couple of hours later while the sun is still well up in the sky, we'll find a hard rock
like lump and a puddle of wax. It was the same sunlight that hardened the clay and
melted the wax. This is like the rain of Hebrews 6:7-8, "For the earth which drinks in the
rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated,
receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to
being cursed, whose end is to be burned." Now let's think about these two illustrations.
Did the sun harden the clay in the sense that it made the clay be the kind of substance that
would harden, or was the sun the cause for the clay to harden? Similarly, was the rain the
reason one portion of ground brought up briars and the other useful herbs? Do you see the
difference? Was the sun the thing that made the clay hard? Was the sun the thing that
made the wax melt or soften? Or was it the sun that made the clay do what clay innately
does when heat warms it up? Did the wax do what wax does innately when it gets warm?
You may ask what the Bible means in Exodus 3:19 and 4:21 when it reports God
speaking to Moses, "But I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not even

by a mighty hand" (3:19). And the LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt,
see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I
will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go" (4:21). Pharaoh is an example
of how God shows mercy. God didn't let the pestilence kill him. Verse 18 could be a
conclusion: God has mercy on whomever He wills (Jacob and Pharaoh) and hardens
whomever He wills (Pharaoh). But this is not a hardening against salvation. Individual
salvation is not an issue here. But let's get back to Exodus 3:19 and 4:21. Here God is
speaking to Moses before Pharaoh ever had a chance to harden his own heart. What did
God tell Moses? He said, "I am sure (he) will not let you go." What does that mean? "The
king of Egypt has a heart like a lump of clay. I know that is what his heart is like. I know
this guy's heart. It's not the waxy type. It's like a lump of clay." Many expositors agree
with this interpretation.
Again, Rotherham translated this, "I will let his heart wax bold, and he will not suffer
the people to go." Further, he wrote, "That Hebrew grammars distinctly avow occasion or
permission to be sometimes the sense of verbs which ordinarily signify cause can be
verified by a reference to the Hebrew Grammar of Gesenius, . . . After stating that the
verbal form . . . called piel denotes intensity and repetition, this grammar adds: 'It often
takes the modifications expressed by permit, . . . . Of this, a good example is found in the
verb shalach, 'to send.' Notice its modification with reference to the raven and the dove in
Gen. VIII. 7,8. Noah sent them 'forth'; that is he simply 'let them go.' So with regard to
hayah, 'to live'; in piel, 'to cause to live.' Moses said that the midwives (literally) 'caused
the male children to live' (Ex. 1.17) - plainly, 'permitted them,' 'refrained from putting
them to death.'" There are other examples of this usage. Cf. The Emphasized Bible, p.
919. The reference most similar to our text is Psalm 81:11,12. "But My people would not
heed My voice, and Israel would have none of Me. 12 So I gave them over to their own
stubborn heart, to walk in their own counsels." Here, we see that the result of letting them
have their own stubborn heart was to walk in their own counsels. Rotherham quotes
Kalisch: "As the external, often accidental, occasion of an event is mostly more obvious,
even to the reflecting mind, than its primary cause or its true (often hidden) originator, it
has become a linguistic peculiarity in most ancient, especially the Semitic, languages, to
use indiscriminately (the occasion) rather than (the cause) so that the phrase, 'I shall
harden the heart of Pharaoh' means: 'I know that I shall be the cause of Pharaoh's
obstinacy; my commands and wonders will be an occasion, an inducement to an
increasing obduration of his heart." Also consult Forster and Marston, God's Strategy in
Human History, pp. 160-175.
In other words, when we see the event with Pharaoh, and God says, "I am going to
harden Pharaoh's heart," we look at it as the occasion. Pharaoh's heart is hardened. God is
going to harden it. What does He mean when He says I'm going to harden that heart? He
means, "I'm going to be the cause of Pharaoh's heart being hardened, like the clay. We

must always consider 1 Timothy 2:4 when we look at this account. God even wanted
Pharaoh to be saved. In addition, we must always remember that God does not cause
anyone to sin (James 1:13-15). God's actions are reflected in Psalm 18:25-26, "With the
merciful You will show Yourself merciful; With a blameless man You will show Yourself
blameless; 26 With the pure You will show Yourself pure; And with the devious You will
show Yourself shrewd."
19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
This question is similar to the previous questions from self righteous Jews who were
hassling the believers in Rome. If we look at this question more closely, we must ask,
"Can anyone resist His will?" If you mean His counsel (boulay) then the answer is, no
one can. But if you mean who can resist His will (thelayma)? Everyone does. Unbelievers
resist and all are not saved. Believers resist and all are not sanctified (1 Th 4:3), even
though that is His will. However, no one can prevent His counsel (boulay) from
happening. He is going to bring His counsel, (boulay), to pass. That's the word found in
this passage. According to 2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as
some count slowness but is longsuffering toward us, not counseling (boulomenos) any to
perish but all to have room for repentance" (My translation.). No one has resisted His
counsel. He has determined that the plan of salvation would be accomplished, and it was.
Paul doesn't seem to answer the question directly, but I think the illustration in 9:20,21
really does.
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to
him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Does not the potter have
power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for
dishonor?
Paul was alluding to Isaiah 64:8, "But now, O LORD, You are our Father; We are the
clay, and You our potter; And all we are the work of Your hand." He also directly quoted
from Isaiah 29:16, "Surely you have things turned around! Shall the potter be esteemed as
the clay; For shall the thing made say of him who made it, 'He did not make me'? Or shall
the thing formed say of him who formed it, 'He has no understanding'?" But in addition to
these passages, I believe he was looking more to the context of Jeremiah 18:1-11.
The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 Arise and go down to
the potter's house, and there I will cause you to hear My words. 3 Then I went down to
the potter's house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that
he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another
vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make. 5 Then the word of the LORD came to
me, saying: 6 O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter? says the LORD.

Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The
instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down,
and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will
repent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning
a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight
so that it does not obey My voice, then I will repent concerning the good with which I
said I would benefit it. 11 Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the
inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus says the LORD: Behold, I am fashioning a disaster
and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your
ways and your doings good.
When the potter (God) tried to make the clay (Israel) into a vessel of honor, it marred
in his hand. Would that be the potter's (God's) fault or the clay's (Israel's). Was the clay
(Israel) resisting? When it was made into another vessel, one which didn't have the honor
that the first vessel would have had, was that the potter's (God's) fault? Absolutely not!
Further, we see that repentance is the vital issue from God's view. This is illustrated in 2
Timothy 2:20,21,
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and
clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself
from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master,
prepared for every good work."
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with
much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.
When God desired "to make known what is possible with Him" (Weymouth), we find
that He endures with the vessels of wrath which fitted themselves to destruction. The
participle, fitted (kathrtismevna) can be either a middle or a passive. I have translated it
as a middle considering the middle concept in the material of Acts 13:46,48,
Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, It was necessary that the word of God
should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of
everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. 48 Now when the Gentiles heard this,
they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed
disposed themselves (h\san tetagmevnoi) to eternal life believed.
Acts 13:48 And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
It is hard to read Acts 13:48 as a verse for predestination in the context of the
thirteenth chapter. Luke is describing the dramatic events at Antioch which center around

the rejection of the gospel by the Jews (45) and the acceptance of it by the Gentiles (4648), The point of the passage is to castigate the Jews for rejecting Christ and praise
Gentiles for accepting Him. For Luke to slip a predestinarian commentary in on this
scene would work against the mood he is trying to create. "Oh, that's why the Jews
rejected the gospel and the Gentiles accepted it. They were predestined to do so. It really
wasn't their fault." That's the kind of conclusion we could make from this kind of
interpretation. But Luke is trying to fault the Jews. This would work against his purpose
for writing about this event.
We read in Acts 13:48, "And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
The phrase, "had been appointed," is the Greek periphrastic pluperfect (h\san
tetagmevnoi). This can be either middle or passive in meaning since perfect participles
only have one form to express the passive and the middle (reflexive) meaning. I think it
has a middle meaning here. When we see the word used in the aorist, which has different
forms for the middle and passive, its normal use seems to be in the middle. Acts 28:23
looks as though it would be active when you read the New King James translation, but
when we look at the Greek, it's a middle. Also, in 1 Corinthians 16:15, the word is active
in the Greek, but the meaning of the thought is definitely middle.
If we took the meaning of the clause in 1 Corinthians 16:15 and used it in Acts 13:48,
we would have, "As many as had devoted themselves unto eternal life, believed." This
verb (tasso) can have a number of meanings. Bauer's second American edition and
Moulton and Milligan give the following meanings: to classify, place or station
something in a fixed spot, appoint to or establish in an office, to put someone in charge,
assign, be classed among those possessing, devote, order, fix, determine, allot, pay, tell,
arrange, or agree. I think dispose fits just fine in the ideas related by all these words.
What word fits in the context of Acts thirteen without forcing anything? We find from
verse 46 that the Jews judged themselves unworthy of eternal life. This is a reflexive
middle idea. The statement we're dealing with is the corresponding statement about the
believers. They had devoted themselves, disposed themselves, arranged themselves, or
classified themselves unto eternal life. Certainly, ordained, of the King James Version, is
too strong. There is no reason to consider this a passive with the context of the previous
middle (reflexive) concept of verse 46. Therefore, this portion should be translated, "As
many as had disposed themselves to eternal life, believed."
But, we don't really need a middle or weak verb meaning here. We can accept the
strong meaning of the New King James Version, "As many as had been appointed to
eternal life believed." Just as the Jews pushed the word of God away from themselves in
verse 46, the Gentiles rejoice and are glad and believed, in verse 48. This could mean that
the ones who believed were the ones who had been appointed (passive) to eternal life by

their own continuance in the grace of God (43). This would account for the process
implied by the pluperfect. They were not the ones who thrust eternal life from
themselves. They were the ones who rejoiced in it. So, their own response to the gospel
had the effect of ordaining them to eternal life.
Theologically speaking, this could show the divine-human nature of conversion. Left
to himself, no one would seek God. But a positive response to the gospel sets powerful
forces in motion. The Holy Spirit continues to draw the person to Himself. A chain
reaction is set in motion. As the person continues to yield (in contrast to those like the
Jews of Luke 7:30), the Holy Spirit draws more powerfully. The person could always
back out at this point, but God is on the move on the person. Therefore, to see this as
passive activity is no problem as long as it includes an active yielding. Thus, the
interpretation of the entire passage yields a theologically middle concept. So, verse 48
could be passive because it views the belief as more than simply the person's response.
God is at work too. Now this theology has nothing to do with the passage itself. This
passage fits this theology without sacrificing the context, grammar, or language. This
respects both context and language. Context is always the most important thing to
consider when interpreting a small portion of scripture.
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which
He had prepared beforehand for glory.
The best commentary on this verse is Romans 8:28-30,
And we know that He works with those who love God, with those who are the called
according to His purpose all things for good [My translation]. 29 For whom He foreknew,
He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the
firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called;
whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
The corporate body of Christ was fitted for glory. As we believe and become part of His
body, we then become glorified. God not only works with Israel but with us too. He did
not foreknow individuals. He foreknew and elected Christ, Israel, and the body of Christ.
When we trust in Christ, the Holy Spirit identifies us with Christ. We then become part of
His predestined purpose. Once we are saved we are predestined to be conformed to
Christ's image. It does not say we are predestined to be saved. This verse is excellent to
show our security. It is predestined. Our salvation is not. Ephesians 1:4-14 is similar to
this passage.

2 Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by
the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification
by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
The typical Calvinistic view of this verse was presented by one theologian in this way:
"Probably the central passage on election to salvation is 2 Thessalonians 2:13 . . . . Here it
will be seen that election was from the beginning; that it was to salvation, and that it was
through or by means of two things: sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth." Is
this the meaning of the passage? I believe strongly that this is not the meaning.
When we read the context of this passage, starting with the fourth verse of the first
chapter through the twelfth verse of this chapter, we see that this was written in relation
to the rapture and the tribulation. God inspired Paul to write this for comfort. God did not
choose the members of the body of Christ to go through the tribulation, but to be saved
from it. When it says, "because God from the beginning chose you for salvation," it is
referring to the rescue of the body of Christ in the rapture before the man of sin is
revealed at the beginning of the tribulation (2 Th 2:3). We have access into the body of
Christ "through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth." Once we are in the
body, we know we will be saved from the tribulation. Other parallel passages say they are
"to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who
delivers us from the wrath to come" (1 Th 1:10), and "God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Th 5:9). The wrath to come is
the wrath of Luke 21:23, "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are
nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon
this people." The people are Israel. It is their trouble, "Alas! For that day is great, so that
none is like it; and it is the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it" (Jer
30:7). Therefore, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 has nothing to do with our salvation from sin. It is
referring to the rapture.
Jude 3b,4 I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the
faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in
unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn
the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus
Christ.
Some say it's certain that it's not the will of God for every man and woman to be
saved. That's because there are some "who long ago were marked out for this
condemnation." If there are any appointed to condemnation, then it cannot be His will
that these same men should be saved. But, is this true? Who were these men in Jude 4,
"who long ago were marked out for this condemnation"? Did God reprobate them before
the foundation of the world?

Berkhoff, in his Systematic Theology, pp. 116, defines reprobation, as ". . . that eternal
decree of God whereby He has determined to pass some men by with the operations of
His special grace, and to punish them for their sins, to the manifestation of His
justice. . . . As such it embodies a twofold purpose: (a) to pass by some in the bestowal of
regenerating and saving grace; and (b) to assign them to dishonor and to the wrath of God
for their sins. . . . The positive side of reprobation is so clearly taught in Scripture as the
opposite of election that we cannot regard it as something purely negative, Rom. 9:21,22;
Jude 4." When we first look at Jude 4, the evidence seems clear that some were marked
out "long ago for this condemnation." But we must look at some of the words in this
verse more closely.
Were these men marked out before the foundation of the world? The phrase "long ago"
is one word in the original. It can mean long ago, but it can also mean the relatively short
time prior to a man's forgiveness of his sins. Further, it can also be as short a time as the
same day.
Palai was used by Pilate, referring to Christ in Mark 15:44, "he asked him [the
centurion] if He had been dead for some time, palai." In 2 Pet 1:9, palai means old, "has
forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins." In our text we can see that the time was
somewhat short because Jude is referring to the men who Peter wrote about in 2 Peter.
It says in 2 Pet 2:1, "there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in
[pareisaxousin, future] destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and
bring on themselves swift destruction." 2 Pet 3:3 "knowing this first: that scoffers will
come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts." Peter uses three futures to
describe these men. Jude uses an aorist [pareisedusan past tense]. So, we can see they
addressed their letters to a similar group of believers.
What is "this condemnation" to which Jude is referring? Peter used the words, "swift
destruction." Since I believe Jude was writing to the same group Peter had written, they
knew the verdict Peter gave. Jude was referring to Peter's verdict. However, Lenski
believed Jude explained what it was.
Lenski wrote in his commentary, "Jude's words are, however, quite plain: Peter wrote
down the verdict of these men in advance, and Jude says what it is, namely this: 'godless,
changing the grace of our God into excess and denying our absolute Master and Lord,
Jesus Christ.' The supposition that a verdict names only the penalty is unwarranted. In
modern courts the judge names the penalty, but the jury brings in the verdict of guilt.
When there is only a judge he does both. Here the verdict states the guilt. Peter wrote

down in advance both the guilt and the penalty, the latter as 'perdition' in 2:1,3 and as 'the
blackness of the darkness' in 2:17."
It doesn't matter whether Jude explained or Peter had written it. They still stood
condemned for their actions. Their verdict [krima] was marked down by Peter. Peter
predicted that there would be false teachers of this sort. Anyone who committed this sin
against God would suffer the same verdict. Therefore, I conclude that these men were not
ordained to this punishment, but those who fit Peter's prophecy know they are written
down for "swift destruction."
I know this is awfully long Sonya, but your email was very poignant. I really
appreciate your question. this is almost the most vital question a believer can ask.
Love in Christ,
Bob Hill
Question:...If is it true about predestination and the elect. What would it matter if we
ministered....
L. Smith
Comments: If is it true about predestination and the elect. What would it matter if we
ministered to the lost...it would be like a lottery ticket...you may want to be saved just in
case you hold the winning ticket...I just do not believe our lord meant for this to be
intrepeted this way. I believe john 3:16 means just what is says.
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
L. Smith,
I agree with you that God sent His Son to die for the whole world, but I don't quite
understand what you mean when you said, "If is it true about predestination and the
elect." If what is true? I ask this because election and predestination for salvation is not
found in the Bible. When we trust Christ as our Savior, we get saved, and the Holy Spirit
baptizes us into the body of Christ. Then, because we are in the body of Christ, according
to Eph 1:4,5, we are secure: "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the
world, to be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to
adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will."
From this we can see that first, we were chosen in Him. We were chosen because we
are in Him. We were put into Him by the Spirit because we believed He is our Savior.

Second, we were not chosen to be saved, we were chosen to be holy and blameless.
Third, the predestination, here, has to do with our security. We have a predestined
adoption. This adoption is a legal term which was of great importance in the Greek
culture of Ephesus. The adopted son could not be disinherited. The adopted son had
preeminence over the biological son. This is the strongest verse for eternal security, not
for Calvinistic fatalism.
When we read what Calvin believed, we can see why so many believe in fatalism.
Calvin wrote the following in Book Three, Ch XXI, sec. 5 p 491 of his Institutes of the
Christian Religion: "The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life,
and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures
simply to deny; but it is greatly cavilled at, especially by those who make prescience its
cause. We, indeed, ascribe both prescience and predestination to God; but we say that it is
absurd to make the latter subordinate to the former. When we attribute prescience to God,
we mean that all things always were and ever continue under his eye; that to his
knowledge there is no past or future, but all things are present, and indeed so present, that
it is not merely the idea of them that is before him (as those objects are which we retain
in our memory), but that he truly sees and contemplates them as actually under his
immediate inspection. This prescience extends to the whole circuit of the world, and to all
creatures. By predestination we mean the eternal decrees of God, by which he determined
with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created
on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, other to eternal damnation; and,
accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has
been predestinated to life or to death."
But what if it really were God's will to save only some. Does the Bible show that
anyone canresist His will?" If you mean who can resist His will (thelayma)? Everyone
does. Man can hinder God's will. 1 Tim 2:4 says God "desires [thelei wills] all men to be
saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." But unbelievers resist and all are not
saved. Believers resist and all are not sanctified. So, even Christians reject the will of
God. Everyone of us have. 1 Th 4:3-7 "For this is the will of God, your sanctification:
that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to
possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the
Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his
brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned
you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness."
However, no one can prevent His counsel boulay) from happening. He is going to
bring His counsel, (boulay), to pass. That's the word found in this passage. According to 2
Pe 3:9, "The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness but is

longsuffering toward us, not counseling (boulomenos) any to perish but all to have room
for repentance" God's counsel is that all have room for repentance.
Question: ...I am wondering about predestination. What is it exactly and why... ...benifit
me?
Name: lisa
Comments: I am wondering about predestination. What is it exactly and why, if it indeed
does, benifit me?
Answer: (click here to view the answer)
Predestination means to determine beforehand. The Bauer, Gingrich, Danker Greek
Lexicon gives this definition (edited) proorizo decide upon beforehand, predestine, of
God predestine someone. When we put our trust for our salvation into Christ and the fact
that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again, then, the Holy Spirit baptizes us
into the body of Christ.
Because we are put into Christ by the Holy Spirit, we are put into a predestined program.
God had already predestined the body of Christ to be holy and blameless before Him in
love: Eph 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed
us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in
Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before
Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as Sons by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will.
He also predestined us to be conformed to His Son's image in Romans 8:29: "For whom
He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He
might be the firstborn among many brethren." This predestination is for our security once
we trust Christ as our Savior. Further, it is very secure, because God performs everything
that must be done for our benefit once we're saved according to Eph 1:11,12: "In Him
also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him
who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in
Christ should be to the praise of His glory." The "all things" in verse 11 is us according to
Eph 1:23: "which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all [according to the Greek,
who fills the all things] in all."
In Christ,
Bob