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Chess and logical thinking?

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ivandh

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23 hours ago Quote #21

Having spent many years interacting with other chess players here, I can say playing
chess does not seem to have any relation to critical thinking.
Nekhemevich

23 hours ago Quote #22

No but drawing conclusions from logical deductions get to the point much quicker!

ipcress12

23 hours ago Quote #23

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ivandh wrote:

Having spent many years interacting with other chess players here, I can say

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playing chess does not seem to have any relation to critical thinking.
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Ain't that the truth!

Chess IMO has more in common with wrestling than critical thinking.
jambyvedar

22 hours ago Quote #24

ivandh wrote:

Having spent many years interacting with other chess players here, I can say
playing chess does not seem to have any relation to critical thinking.

should I trade my bishop for his knight, should I weaken my d5 square, but in return I
will control that square, should I weaken my structure for activty etc. These are just
samples.
Now the players that you came across might be throwing variations at you with
explaining the reasoning behind their moves. I suggest you get a book like the Art of
Logical Thinking by Neil Mc Donald. These book explain well the logical ideas of GMS
games.
22 hours ago Quote #25

Critical thinking refers to the ability to think critically in general, whether the subject is
chess, politics, literature, theology etc.
UseWithCare

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Not true. Chess involves many critical thinking like:

ipcress12

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21 hours ago Quote #26

Judging from this - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=//EP//TEXT+TA+P7-TA-2012-0097+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN - chess is really useful. Judging

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from what I have seen in life, most women do not play chess (partly also because taking
care of their families leaves them practically hobbyless) yet their speech and action is
much more coherent and goal-oriented than that of many men who play chess and
draughts. So it depends.
ponz111

19 hours ago Quote #27

When I was 8 years old my father taught me to play chess. Then he won 100 games in a
row.
I knew then that chess was a game of logic and skill.
Later, I found that the ability to think outside the box will greatly increase your chess

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abilities and results.

kkl10

14 hours ago Quote #28

UseWithCare escreveu:

Judging from this - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=//EP//TEXT+TA+P7-TA-2012-0097+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN - chess is really useful.

Judging from what I have seen in life, most women do not play chess (partly
also because taking care of their families leaves them practically hobbyless) yet
their speech and action is much more coherent and goal-oriented than that of
many men who play chess and draughts. So it depends.
"C. whereas whatever the age of the child, chess can improve children's concentration,
patience and persistence and can develop the sense of creativity, intuition, memory,
and analytic and decision-making skills; whereas chess also teaches determination,
motivation and sportsmanship;"
I think there is some truth to this quote. How much this is true for everyone probably
depends on each person's natural predisposition and personality.
I treat "critical thinking" and "logical reasoning" differently. I equate "critical" with
"rational" thinking. "Logical reasoning" is just one of the components of rational thought.
Critical thought encompasses many types of mental skills, some of which are described
in the above quote. I do think chess has the potential to improve one's critical thinking,
by enhancing one or several of those underlying skills. I feel that the game is mainly
exercising mental discipline... it compels me to be more patient, analytical and
systematic in my thought approach. The way I see it, it can help people to think more
critically or rationally (and this may affect one's character as well), but not logically.
Don't think the game has much to offer in terms of logical reasoning per se. I'm inclined
to think that logical reasoning (inductive, deductive, etc,) is a learned skill. And I think
that most people in the mentally healthy range learn some of it one way or another,
even if many fail to use it well most of the time. Hell, it would be pretty hard to be
autonomous and survive in society without some basic grasp of logic. Most of the "ifthen" types of conditionals and some sorts of heuristics that are relevant in the game,
are already part of the thinking abilities of most people. Abilities used in everyday life in
many ways and contexts.
One may choose to transpose the algorithmic nature of the game to one's life approach
or strategy. There may be some advantages to that, I guess. Personally, I'd refrain from
treating life as a game of perfect information even if I could. It's impossible to conceive
it as a game of perfect information from my limited and subjective point of view, and
I'm glad because life predictability is a nightmarish concept to me.
BigKingBud

13 hours ago Quote #29

Fiveofswords wrote:

looking at this forum would make one suspect that chess makes people stupid. i
dont agree with this. i feel these people were already stupid and hoped learning
chess would conceal their failings.
So chess made us all stupid, but it made you a HUGE dick?
mdinnerspace

13 hours ago Quote #30

I think the term "logical" is not quite correct. Analytical thought is a better description
imo.
Logic certainly applies to successful play. Positions get analyzed, sometimes not logically
(relatively).
Whip_Kitten

12 hours ago Quote #31

Perhaps "logical" in reference to chess carries a semantic sense beyond the formal
meaning of logic, as in appealing to analytical rather than emotional reasoning. ?? In
which case, fair enough.
I suspect the analytical skills learned from chess do transfer to situations outside of

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chess but in highly specific ways. If the skills were to apply comprehensively to general
areas of life, I think we would find chess to be easy.
hhnngg1

12 hours ago Quote #32

I'd have to come down more on the side against logic in chess.

It's far more important to have seen key patterns and have already seen various plans of
attack and defense than trying to figure it all out OTB in real-time. Of course, you're out
of book in every game, but the more patterns and plans you're familiar with, the better
you can apply the information, and more rapidly.
Enter_The_DarkSyde

12 hours ago Quote #33

There is more serious matter at hand than this topic. Have a look at chessocity and you
will see how this server has issues with cheating. Chess.com like to proffess they have a
air tight cheating detection. Sorry but not true. This server with the rest online servers
have a massive issue with cheaters. So many people have filed and complained about
players who are still active and not banned why Chess.com why have you not banned ,
Spawn, Petrosv_, Blockpost. These guys are still here even with so many players
reproting them. I have lost all faith in fair play on this server or any server. Chess.com
MODS and Staff do zero about cheaters. Thats only a few compoared to how many there
are in this server. Its a joke that MODS and Staff get a pay check but yest find it hard to
ban so many cheaters even if you report them they sit there and do nothing. Sad and
truly pathetic.
mdinnerspace

12 hours ago Quote #34

Whip.. I'd say emotional thinking can also be very logical, albeit less thinking. Often over
thinking somethings is not particularly logical. Some debate this is a difference of
male/female. I do not want to go there. This ls not the place.
Some people like to weigh all the options before making a decision. Sometimes not very
logically, but that is what they do, analyze. Others just do or choose not to do. Maybe
they can logically process their thoughts in 1 quick moment. Why bother with all the
analyzing, when so many factors are open to change?
This is not a good plan for successful chess play. One has to do some analysis, and
hopefully it will be logical.
mdinnerspace

12 hours ago Quote #35

Enter .. ur in the wrong forum. Express ur feelings in the cheating forum. Enter just
joined today! The expert at detection has entered the building! Lol
ipcress12

12 hours ago Quote #36

I had a math professor who described doing mathematics as thinking small careful
thoughts. There's something to that. The same could be said about chess, at least at
slower time time controls.
The way one solves problems in chess is similar to solving problems in math and other
subjects. You break the problem into parts (analysis) and put them back together
(synthesis) into a solution. Then you have to check your work by steps to make sure it's
correct. If not, go back and try again.
Whether chess players, especially young ones, can transfer what they learn from chess to
other areas is the question and I'm not sure it's been answered persuasively. Mostly I run
into claims, like the European Parliament declaration linked above, that it does.
mdinnerspace

11 hours ago Quote #37

Judit Polgars Foundation, teaching chess in grades 1-12 certainly would agree with you
ipcress.
Whip_Kitten

11 hours ago Quote #38

I agree that emotional reasoning exists. Some people have claimed that without
emotions, we would be incapable of making rational decisions (I've forgotten who and
how to articulate their claim). Makes sense as emotions are more primary in our brain
structure and rational thought is higher level cortical functioning.
In terms of how we use the word we "logical," it seems we semantically divide thought

into rational and emotional thought, and we refer to logic in terms of that discrete
categorization of non-emotional. The reality of course may be different. That's what I
was getting at.
ipcress12

11 hours ago Quote #39

WK: As I recall, people suffering brain damage which wiped out their emotional
responses were unable to make any decisions at all.
One thing I've noticed many times is that bright people who are superb at one kind of
logical thought -- troubleshooting technical equipment or becoming doctors or lawyers -may be terrible at math. It seemed to me more of a psychological block, but I was never
sure.
Anyway I just don't jump to the conclusion that because a person is good at one kind of
logical thinking they will be able to transfer that skill to other types of logical thought.
mdinnerspace

8 hours ago Quote #40

And can not the reverse also be true? Some people who are very good at math may not
think logically in other areas of thought. By example, child prodigies, savants with socalled high IQ's excell in math, music and chess, but their logical thinking in other areas
may be lacking.

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