8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:
notesonJewishtheologyandspirituality

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalled
Human:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides
PostedonFebruary7,2016byAlanBrill|Leaveacomment

TheMishnah(Sanhedrin4:5)teachestheuniversaldoctrinethatGodbeganhumanitybycreatingan
individualhumanbeing,Adam,toteachthatifanyonedestroyasinglesoulfromhumankind,Scripture
chargeshimasthoughhehaddestroyedawholeworld,andwhoeversavesasinglesoulfrom
humankind,Scripturecreditshimasthoughhehadsavedawholeworld.However,atalaterdate,the
textofthisMishnahwasrevisedtobeparticularistic,sothatmanyeditionscurrentlyreadthatAdam
wascreatedalonetoteachthatifanyonedestroyasinglesoulfromIsraelandwhoeversavesasingle
soulfromIsraelAuniversalteachinghasthusbeentransformedtoaparticularistviewvaluingJewish
life,ratherthanthevalueofallhumanlife.

MenachemKellnerhasdevotedthelastdecadestowritingaseriesofbooksdefendingtheuniversalvoice
inJudaism.KellnercurrentlyteachesJewishphilosophyatShalemCollege,integratingWesternand
Jewishtexts,afterhavingspentthirtyyearsteachingattheUniversityofHaifa,whereheheldtheSir
IsaacandLadyEdithWolfsonChairofJewishReligiousThought.Formoreinformation,Iinterviewed
himinthepastonhisviewsofbeliefandhisfriendProf.Jameswroteadetailedlaudatoryintellectual
biographyofKellner.
KellnerhasauthorednineteenbooksmostofthemdevotedtohisprojectofadvocatingthatMaimonides
rationalistuniversalismshouldserveastheidealforcontemporarymodernOrthodoxyandReligious
Zionistlife.

https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

1/11

8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

Recently,hehaswrittenTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides[InHebrew]
arguingthatMaimonideswasconvincedthatJewishdoctrineteachesthatthereisnoessentialdifference
betweenIsraelandtheothernationsoftheworld.ForKellner,thedistortionofMaimonidesbylater
Rabbisisatragicdistortion,thedifferencesbetweenthenationsandIsrael,aresolelyattheleveloflaws,
ofhistory,ofdestiny.TheworkisapresentationoftheuniversalismonMaimonidesshowingthereader
theprooftextsforsuchathesisandansweringthosewhoreadthetextsindifferentwayfocusingonthree
textsintheMishnahTorah,FoundationoftheTorah1:16,SabbaticalYear13:1213Kings12:5.Much
ofthisdiscussionhasalreadyappearedinhisarticlesandhasbeendebatedinthefield.SeeTableof
ContentsinEnglishhere.TheworkwaspublishedbyBarIlanPressaspartofverygoodseriesonJewish
thought.
OrthodoxJewishuniversalismisnotnew.RabbiSamsonRaphaelHirschandhissonDr.MendelHirsch
advocatedaRomanticbrotherhoodofmankind,(seethevolumeHumanismandJudaismbyMendel
Hirsch),buttheHirschianapproachisnotfollowedanymore.MosheUnna(19021989)broughta
universalpositiontotheMizrachiWorkerspartyandtheMafdal,arguingforliberaldemocracyasa
pillarofJewishhumanism,butthattoohasbeeneclipsed(seethefinearticlebyMosheHellingerand
thisbook).
OrthodoxMaimonideanscholarssuchasIsadoreTwerskyalreadypointedouthowMaimonideswas
alwayscarefultodistinguishtheuniversalelementsinphilosophyandreligionfromtheparticularlegal
aspect.Hence,thereisanAristotelianethicofthewiseavailabletoalltofollowtheethicalmeanandthe
particularJewishethicforselectJewsofthesainttogotoanextremeagainstangerorpride.Orthatthe
MishnahTorahdistinguishesbetweentheuniversalknowledgeofafirstcausedivinityandthespecifics
ofacceptingtheprophecyofMoses.Yet,MaimonideswroteinhislettertoR.SamuelibnTibbon,that
Aristotlehadreachedthehighestlevelofperfectionavailabletohumanbeingsshortofprophecy,placing
thephilosopherabovealmostallJews.
EventheYemeniterationalistscholarRabbiYosefQafi(Kapach)(19172000)madethesedistinctions
inhisfineeditionsofthemedievalJewishrationalclassics.Butaseriousreadingoftheseessentialworks
intheirphilosophiccontexthasbeenobscuredbycontemporaryRabbisintheirmisquotationsof
Maimonides.
ThislatterpointmotivatedKellner,whoisupsetbytheturnamongreligiousJewstowardsparticularism
withitsconcurrentpreachingofirrationality,essentialism,anddogmatism.Hence,asexpressedinhis
preface,hisworksareanexplicitpolemicagainstthesepositionsandtherabbiswhoholdthem,inthat,
heconsiderstheseparticularisticthoughts,tocapturehisrathercolloquialstyle,fakrimt,farfallen,
farblonjet,farfoilt,farshlugginner,aswellasdangerous.
Inpriorworks,Kellnerdirectlycondemnedtherabbiswhoareantiscienceandinfavorofsuperstitionby
showingthatMaimonidesadvocatedscienceandcondemnedsuperstition.Whenrabbisspeakofthe
essentialistmetaphysicalnatureofritual,land,Torah,andJews,Kellnerrespondsbyshowingthat
Maimonidestreatedalltheseasinstrumental,sociological,andbasedtheirvaluetowardhuman
perfection.
Toemphasizehispointforthecontemporaryreader,Kellnerevencreatesanahistoricdichotomyof
mysticirrationalessentialistsandantimysticaluniversalrationalists.Outofboundsofthediscussion
wouldbetheUniversalismofmysticessentialismofRavKookwhowrote,TheloveforIsraelentailsa
loveforallhumankindsincehewouldfallintothewrongsideofthedichotomy.
https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

2/11

8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

Ontheotherhand,whenMaimonidesseeminglysupportsadogmaticordoctrinalposition,Kellner
sharplyrejectsMaimonidesclaimingthatMaimonidesviewofbeliefwasanalienimport.Inmanyother
cases,KellnerrejectsMaimonideanintellectualismfavoringBubersdefinitionoffaith,HermannCohens
ethics,agreaterrolefortheemotional,andadefenseoftheseculardefendersoftheStateofIsrael.
KellnerishighlyselectiveinhisreadingofMaimonidesavoidingthemystical,illuminationist,and
pietisticelementsofthegreatrationaliststhought.Healsogenerallyavoidstheskepticalaspectsof
Maimonidesthoughtespeciallywherehepointsoutthelimitsofknowledgeandthenaturalistic
MaimonideswhofollowsFarabi.TheIslamicnaturalistsFarabi,ibnSinaandibnBajjahallhave
universalistconceptionsinwhichthecontemplativeofanyfaithcommunityishigherthanthelaw
abidingpractitionersofspecificfaiths.KellnerdoesnotexplainwhyMaimonidesrevealshissimilar
positiononlyinGuideIII:51.
OneofMenachemKellnersmodelforaJewishUniversalism,heevenorganizedaconferencetohonor
him,isLeonRoth,thefirstChairinPhilosophyattheHebrewUniversityofJerusalem(1928).Rothalso
spentmanyyearsuncoveringtheiruniversalsignificanceforhumanlife.Heconstantlyaccentuatesthe
basicfeaturesofequalitystating:Thechildrenofearthareenvisagedasonefamily.Thereisbynatureno
suchthingascasteorclass,nodifferentiationbybloodordescent.Humanequalityisthusaprimary
fact.ForRoth,Judaismmustremaintruetoitsuniversalisticorigins.
Yet,forRothuniversalismrequiredonetonotforgettheuniversalisminthepracticalrealm.Therefore,
Rothresignedhispositionin1948andreturnedtoBritainbecauseofthewantonkillingofciviliansand
bythetreatmentofrefugeesfollowingthefightingin19478alongwiththelackofcondemnationamong
thegeneralIsraelipopulation.RothsreadingoftheJewishtextsledhimtoadvocatetheestablishmentof
abinationalpoliticalentitywithcompleteequalityofrightsbetweenJewsandPalestinians.Kellner,
however,isfirmlycommittedtohisownformofparticularism,themoralsuperiorityofJudaismin
fulfillinguniversalvalues,albeit,withouttheessentialism.Heseekstocorrectfalseopinions,butisnot
concernedwithcreatingimperativesorcallstoaction.
MichaelWaltzer,inaveryperspectivearticleonJewishuniversalism,withagreatersenseofthe
complexityofthetradition,wrote:
OrthodoxJews(notallofthem,butmany)upholdwhattheytaketobethetrue
understandingofdivineelectionandhalakhic[Jewishlaw]orderagainsttheever
encroachingforcesofWesternculture.Theyareresolutelyopposedtouniversalism,atleast
initssecularphilosophicalandpoliticalversions.Theyhavelittleusefortheideaofhuman
rightsorfortheclaimsthataremadeinitsname
KellnerseekstocorrectthisproblemofOrthodoxywithahisdefenseofuniversalisminOrthodoxybuthe
doesnotofferethicaldemandsandmoralvistaslikeUnna,orEmmanuelLevinas.ConfirmingWalzers
analysisthattheuniversalismfromwithintraditionalJudaismdoesnotattemptagrandphilosophic
universalism,ratherwhatmightbecalledalowflyinguniversalismthatis,oneworkedoutinclose
contactwiththepoliticallandscape.Itscrucialmoralperceptionistheexistenceofothernationsas
moralandlegalagents.ForWalzer,thisacknowledgementoftheothersderivesfromJewish
particularismitis,sotospeak,theturningoutwardofaparticularistperspective.
Inmanyways,itispreciselyKellnerscommitmenttochangingaparticularmorallandscapeusing
particularistictextsinordertofindagreaterspacefornonJewsasmoralandintellectualagentswithina
https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

3/11

8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

specificOrthodoxcontextthatmakeshimthephilosopherofuniversalismandrationalitywhofeels
responsibletowritehisveryreadableanderuditebooks,especialhismostrecentTheyTooArecalled
Human:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides,inordertochangetheagendafromwithin.

1.Whatisthethesisofyourbook?
Simplyput:JudaismisbothuniversalistandparticularistandMaimonideswasauniversalistinthe
sensethathethoughtthatallhumanbeingsareequallymadeintheimageofGodandthatthereisno
essentialdifferencebetweenJewsassuchandnonJewsassuch.WhenIwasworkingonthebookaclose
andbelovedrelativeaskedmewhatIwasworkingon.WhenItoldhim,heasked,inobviousamazement:
Doyoureallybelievethat?!
2)AccordingtoMaimonides,whatisImageofGod(TzelemElokim)?
Maimonidesthinksitishumanintellectualabilities.TheimageofGodisthatwhichdistinguishes
humanbeingsfromanimals(butnotJewsfromnonJews!).IpersonallydonotthinkthattheTorah
meansonlyintellect,althoughIcertainlythinkthatintellectispartofthemix.
AllhumanscanshowholinessbyreachingouttoGodintellectually(largelybystudyingGodscreation
afterhavingachievedahighlevelofmoralperfection).MizvotareaGodgiventooltoachievethatmoral
perfection,but,likealltools,arenotirreplaceable.Otherwise,Maimonidescouldneverhavesaid,ashe
didinhislettertoR.SamuelibnTibbon,thatAristotlehadreachedthehighestlevelofperfection
availabletohumanbeingsshortofprophecy.
3)Howdothepresentationsofpollution,evilinclination,andsnake(zuhama,yetzerhara
andnahash)showthatMaimonidesdoesnotmaintainthatthereisanessentialdifference
betweenJewsandnonJews?
WefindintheTalmud(AvodahZarah22b)astatementtotheeffectthatallhumanbeingswerepolluted
bythesnakewhichhadsexwithEve.ThatoriginalsinpollutionwasremovedfromIsraelatSinai.One
could,ofcourse,readthistoteachthatbyacceptingtheTorahtheJewishpeopleweremadedifferent
fromandsuperiortoothernations,Maharaldoesassumethis.
ButitmakesasmuchsensetoreaditasteachingthattheTorahremovesthepollution.Jewsarenot
betterthannonJewsperse,butwewereexpectedtobehavebetter.That,ineffect,ishowMaimonides
readsthepassageintheGuide(II.30),thatcorrectthinkingremovesthepollution.
https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

4/11

8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

ThesnakeintheGardenofEdenstorysymbolizestheveryactiveimaginationwithwhichhumanbeings
areendowedthisimaginationoftenleadsusastray.Thistendencytoallowtheimaginationtoconfuse
usissymbolizedbythepollution.TheTorahhelpsustoavoidthemistakestowhichweareotherwise
prone.Bytheway,MaimonidesfindsthesimplesenseofthispassageinAvodahZarahtobeabhorrent
(Guide,II.30).
4)Whatisthepillarofwisdom(hokhmah)andwhyisitimportantifitdoesnotleadto
conjunction,overflow,orunion?
MaimonidesopenshisMishnehTorahbystating:yesodhayesodotveamudhahokhmotleydasheyesh
shammatzuirishon.FollowingR.IsaacAbravanel,Itranslatethatasfollows:Thefoundationofall
[religious]foundationsistheaxiomonwhichallthesciencesarebased,towit:toknowthatthereisa
PrimeExistent.
Ispend4chaptersofmynewbookexplainingthesentence,butperhapsitwouldbesufficientheretocite
Abravanelscomplaintaboutit:
WhyintheSeferhaMaddadidMaimonideswriteofthefirstprinciplethatitwasthefoundationofall
foundationsandthepillarofthescienceswhenheshouldhavesaid,oneofthefoundations,notthe
foundationofallfoundations?Ofwhatconcernisitofourswhetherornotthisfoundationisthepillarof
gentilesciences,whicharenotoftheChildrenofIsrael(1Kings9:20)?[Abravanel,RoshAmanah,ch.5]
AbravanelcorrectlyunderstoodMaimonidestobehereimporting[Gentile]scienceintotheveryheartof
Torah.Maimonidesdidthisinthecontextofaparticularphilosophicalunderstandingofthenatureof
humanintellectanditscrucialroleinachievingandmaintainingcontactwithGod.Abrabanelnoticed
thatMaimonidesclaimsthatthesecretsoftheTorah,isascienceopeninprincipletoallhumanbeings,
studyofwhichisapositivecommandment.
WhilenoonetodayacceptsthephilosophicalunderpinningsofMaimonidessystem,weshouldstillask
ourselves:shouldwenotseektoemphasizethesapienspartofourbeinghomosapiens?Shouldwenot
takeadvantageofoneoftheimportantpartsofourmakeupthatdistinguishesusfromotheranimals?
Indeed,sinceMaimonideanorthodoxycanneverbesimplyorthopraxy,orsocialorthodoxy,notto
examinethetheologicalunderpinningsofourbehavioris,ineffect,tobehavelikearobot.
5)ShouldwebeasintellectuallyelitistasMaimonides?Arethementallychallengedlike
simians,asstatedbymedievalrationalists,andthereforewillnotgettheworldtocome?Is
stupidJudaismwithoutwisdomnotJudaism?
Letmemakeonethingclear.OncemywifecomplainedaboutMaimonideselitism,blamingmeforit.It
didnogoodtoexplainthatIwassimplyteachingwhathesaid,withoutagreeingwithit.Inorderto
preserveshalombayit(peaceinthehome)IhungalistofMaimonidesmistakesonthedoortoour
fridge.Thefirstofthoserelatedtohisintellectualelitism.
Sincenooneknowswhatitactuallymeanstoearnashareintheworldtocome,Iamnotabouttoexpress
anopinionaboutwhogetsinandwhodoesnot.Onething,however,isclear:stupidJudaism,contra
Maimonides,isstillJudaism.Werethatnotthecase,wewouldhavetoexcludeahugenumberofJews
(someofthemquiteprominent)fromJudaism.
https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

5/11

8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

6)HowdidRavElchananWassermangetMaimonidesincorrect?
InoneofthechaptersofmybookIcriticizethewayinwhichRebElhananWasserman,hyd,presented
Maimonides.Once,whenIwasmuchyoungerIgotintoalotoftroublebytellingsomeonenearanddear
tome(whothenpracticedandstillnowpracticesareligionwhichIconsidertobeclosetoJudaism)that
RebElhananwasanunsophisticatedphilosopher.Myinterlocutorrepliedbychasingmewithabaseball
bataroundtheyeshivabuildinginwhichthisconversationtookplace.OnecanhardlyblameReb
ElhananforreadingMaimonidesasifhewereaYiddishspeakingyeshivaheadotherwise,howcould
hetakehimseriously?
But,tojudgehimmorecharitably,itmaybethatRebElhanan,whowasatoneandthesametimeavery
smartandobviouslyleanedmanandalsoextremelyintolerantofmodernityandofZionism,understood
whatMaimonidesactuallytaught,butwantedtosavehimfromhimselfasitwere,or,attheveryleast,
makesurethatthoseraisedtoseeMaimonidesasaparagonofJewishlearningandofJewishthought
werenotdamagedbyexposuretohisactualideas.
RebElhananreadMaimonidesasifMaimonideshadnotreadandbeeninfluencedbyAristotleandal
Farabi,amongmanyothers.ThiswasnotthewayinwhichtheRaNandHasdaiCrescasread
MaimonidestheywereunflummoxedbythefactthatMaimonidesgotmanyimportantthingswrong
aboutJudaism(accordingtothem),butitisthewayinwhichmuchoftheyeshivaworldreadshimto
thisday.BTW,wereMaimonidestoaddressustoday,mybestguessisthathewouldnottellustoread
contemporaryphilosophers,buttostudyphysics.
7)WhatistheproblemwiththosewhoseeanessentialdifferencebetweenJewsandNon
Jews?
WhatistheproblemwiththosewhoseeanessentialdifferencebetweenJewsandnonJews?Inthe
prefacetomynewbookIdiscussthreeexamplesofJudaicparticularism:thedisgusting,insaneviews
putforwardbytheauthorsoftheinfamousSeferTorahHaMelekh,themoremoderateviewofRabbi
ShlomoAviner,andtheevenmoremoderateviewofRabbiHerschelSchachter.
IncontrasttoMaimonides,RabbiAvinerfollowsJudahHaleviinclaimingthattheJewsarethechosen
peoplebecauseonlytheycouldhavebecomethechosenpeople:IsraelreceivedtheTorahatSinaibecause
noothernationcouldhavereceivedit.R.AvineraddstothisHalevibaseideasculledfromKabbalistic
sources.Channeling,asitwere,theOrhaHayyimhaKadosh(onLev20:26),forexample,hewrites(ina
workaddressedtoIDFrecruits!)thatthedifferencebetweenadeadgentileandalivegentileisnotas
greatasthedifferencebetweenadeadJewandaliveJew.Onewouldthinkthatrabbiswouldhave
learnedacertainmeasureofrestraintinlightofallthathastranspiredhereinIsraeloverthelast20years
(sincetheassassinationofYizhakRabin,zl),butitseemsthatrabbinicirresponsibilityknowsfew
bounds.
Inamoremoderatevein,RabbiHerschelSchachterofYUseemstomisinterpretAvotIII.14inorderto
maintainthatwhileallhumansarecreatedintheimageofGod,Jewsaremorecreatedintheimageof
God.Ihavenoideawhatthatcouldpossiblymean.ThisappearstobeatheologicalnovuminJudaism,
designedtomoderatethehardedgedparticularismofearlierauthoritiessoastomakeitmoreacceptable
tocontemporaryears.Itdoesnotwork.

https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

6/11

8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

Thereareseveralproblemswiththeseviews.AnyoneraisedontheUSDeclarationofIndependencewill
findthemabhorrent,sincetheymaintainthatallhumansarenotcreatedequal.Ofcourse,thatwillnot
botheranyonewhorejectstheideathatallhumansarecreatedequal.Perhapsthefactthattheseviews
goagainstthepeshatoftheopeningchaptersoftheTorahthat,everyoneiscreatedintheimageofGod,
mightgivesomepeopleamomentspause.
Butsince,asMaimonidessaid,thegatesofinterpretationareneverclosed,therearemanywaysthat
onecangetaroundthefactthattheviewsonthisissueespousedbyRabbisAvinerandSchachterflyin
thefaceofexplicitteachingsoftheTorah.
Thereisalso,ofcourse,theslightproblemthattheideathatJewsareinsomeinnatewaysuperiortonon
Jewsissimplyfalse.Thereisnoevidencewhatsoevertosupporttheclaim,andplentyofcounter
examples.Justlastweek,MichalFruman,whowaswoundedinanArabknifeattack,wasquotedinthe
MakorRishonnewspaperassayingthattheArabambulancedriverwhotookhertothehospitalwas
muchmoresensitiveandcaringthanmanyJewssheknows.
IrealizethatthefactthatIalsofindtheviewtobeimmoralisnotlikelytocarrymuchweight.
8)IfaJewmustnotbelieveanythingandthereisnotoneJewishopinion,thenwhypick
yourapproachoveressentialistapproachesotherthanpersontasteormoraltaste?
MyargumentinMustaJewBelieveAnything?isnotthatJewsmaybelieveanythingtheyplease,and
thatthereisnosuchthingasincorrectJewishbeliefs.Rather,IarguethatbeliefinJudaismisbest
construedasfidelity,faithfulness,loyalty,trustworthiness,etc.,inshort,beliefinasopposedtobelief
that.
ObviouslyinordertobeloyaltoGodintraditionalJudaismonemustholdcertainstatementstobetrue
thatGodexistsandknowsus,thattheJewsareGodschosenpeople,thatthemizvotareobligatory,
etc.butuntiltheMiddleAgesnoonetriedtogetclearonwhatpreciselythosestatementsactuallymean,
andnooneusedthecategoryofheresyinthatcontext.Justthinkofwhatkoferbaikkar(denyingthe
principle)meansinthePassoverHaggadahnotheresy,butdistancingoneselffromtheJewishpeople.
TheJewishtraditionencompassesawidevarietyofviewsonabewilderingarrayofissues.Simplyput,
Judaismisbothuniversalistandparticularist.AsmuchasIwouldpersonallypreferthatthe
particularistviewswerenotpartoftheJewishtradition,Icannotwipethemaway,asmostofthose
whoseJudaismisonlyparticularistdowiththeviewswithwhichtheydisagree.
Inarecentarticle(Hakirahvol.16,pp.4776),RabbiHananBalkcriticallyanalyzedviewsofrishonim
andaharonimaboutnonJewswhichIfindbothdistressfulanddistasteful.AsmuchasIwould
personallypreferthattheviewscataloguedbyRabbiHananBalkwerenotpartoftheJewishtradition,I
cannotwipethemaway,asmostofthosewhoseJudaismisonlyparticularistdowiththeviewswith
whichtheydisagree.Butinactualfact,theJewishtraditionencompassesawidevarietyofviewsona
bewilderingarrayofissues.
Idonothavethehutzpahtosaythatessentialistrishonimandaharonimareheretics.Rather,suchviews
representaparticularstrandofJudaismwhichdoesexistevenifIpreferthatitdidnot.Thisstrand,Iam
convinced,isareactiontoalonghistoryoftribulations.ThemessianicdreamofJudaismasfoundin
https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

7/11

8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

Maimonideswritings(andelsewhere)representsanotherstrand,one,Ihold,tobetruertotheteachings
ofTorahandtheTalmudicRabbis..
9)IstherevelationatSinaijusthumanknowledgefromMosesintellect?
IamaconservativeinterpreterofMaimonides.Thus,IreadhimasteachingthattherevelationatSinai
wasmorethanMosestappingintothewisdomofthecosmos,asitwere,andtranslatingwhathe
understoodinthatfashionintothemythic,figurativelanguageinwhichhewrotetheTorah.(Compare
thisalternateapproach.)
10)WhatwillnonJewsbelieveintheworldtocome?
MycurrentunderstandingaboutwhatMaimonidesthoughtaboutGentilesinthemessianicerais
somewhatfluid.Iamnotsurethathehimselfknew.Afterall,questionsofuniversalismand
particularismareimportanttous,butprobablyarousedmuchlessinterestintheMiddleAges.Itiseven
likelythatMaimonidesneveraskedhimselfifhewasauniversalistoraparticularist.Thelanguagewas
notevenavailabletohim.Thus,forexample,whilethenotionofdivineprovidenceiscentraltothe
Torah,therewasnowordinanyJewishlanguageforthatideatillibnTibbonmadeitup(hashgahah).
But,forwhateveritisworth,IamconvincedthatforMaimonidesthedistinctionbetweenJewand
Gentile(ifitremains)willbemuchlessimportantinthemessianicerathanitistoday.Perhapshe
thoughtthatallGentileswouldbecomeJewish,orperhapshefeltthatallhumanswouldbecome
Abrahamicmonotheistswithoutmizvot(andbeforeanyreaderhasaheartattackallowmetopointout
thatevenNahmanidesthoughtthattheTorahonlyappliedduringzmanTorahtheeraofTorah
whichwouldendwiththecomingoftheMessiah).Iguesswewillhavetowaitandsee.
11)Howareyouuniversalist?Youmayrejectessentialistsbutyougivelittleguidance
aboutcontemporarynonJews,currentoppressedpeople,orinterfaithandmulti
culturalism?
IamaMaimonideanuniversalist(asIunderstandhim)inthefollowingway:Ibelievethatwhathuman
beingsshareincommonismoreimportantthanwhatdividesus.UnlikeMaimonidesIamnotarabbi
andIdonotpasken(decide)halakhahconcerningotherreligions.
IamaproudJewishnationalistandthinkthatofalltheworldsreligions,Judaismistheleastbizarre,
knowingfullwellthatifIhadbeenbornandraisedaHinduIwouldprobablythinkthataboutHinduism
(ifoneisallowedtousethatterm).Basically,Iwouldjustlikepeopletogetalong.
But,Ialsodonotbelievethatthereisanysuchthingasahumanbeingwithoutacultureitwillbea
longtimebeforenationstateswitheraway.AproposJewishnationalism,itisacategoryerrortothink
thatnationalismisinconsistentwithuniversalism(especiallyasusedinthisdiscussion).Nationalism
neednotbechauvinism.Maimonideshimselfwasveryproud,notonlyofTorah,butalsooftheJewish
people.WhileIdisagreewithJewishnonZionists(suchasmyrespectedteacher,StevenSchwarzschild,
zl,ormymanylovedHaredirelatives),Idonotthinkthattheirviewsareillegitimate,onlywrong.This
incontrasttoJewishsupportersofBDS,whoareeitherfoolish,orevil,orboth.
12)AsanintellectualfanofLeonRothsuniversalism,whatdoyoumakeofhisuniversal
https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

8/11

8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

concernforthemistreatmentofPalestinianArabsin19471948?
LeonRothwasathoroughlyadmirablehumanbeing,andcertainlyamanofprinciple.Iagreewith
idealiststhatifwedonotusetheidealinordertojudgetherealwewillneveradvancetotheidealhow
couldIthinkotherwise,bothasaJewandasastudentofthelate(anddeeplymissed)Steven
Schwarzschild?
ButIamalsoenoughofarealisttorealizethatinaworldinwhichonlyonesideofaconflictseeksto
realizetheideal,whiletheothersideignoresit,thefirstsideislikelytoendupdead.LeonRothandthe
othermembersofBritShalomrepresentedthehighestidealsofJudaism,butashasbeendemonstrated
timeandtimeagain,theyhadnexttonoonetotalktoontheotherside.Ipersonallywouldhave
preferredthatheremaininIsraeltofightthegoodfight,butcanhardlyjudgehimonthat,andhaveno
righttodoso.IfurthermoreadmirehisapparentunwillingnesstoallowhiscritiqueofIsraelipolicytobe
usedbyenemiesofIsrael.
13)IsIsraelismoremoralthanothernations?Isthatuniversal?
IdonotbelievethatJewsaremoremoralthanGentiles.IdobelievethatTorahissuperiortoother
systems,andthatpeoplewhoactuallyliveaccordingtothedictatesofToraharemorelikelytobemoral
thanthosewhodonot.However,IhavemetfartoomanydeeplymoralGentilesofmanydifferent
persuasions(mostemphaticallyincludingatheists)andtoomanyimmoralJews(includingmanywho
thinkthattheyrepresentTorahtrueJudaism)tobelievethatJewsaremoremoralthanGentiles.
IcertainlydonotbelievethatmasteryofTalmudmakesoneabetterperson.ItisoneofthemythsIgrew
upwith,andittookmealongtimetorealizethatitispreciselythatamyth.Therearesimplytoomany
blatantcounterexamples.Statingthemainpointofmynewbookandofthisdiscussion,Ifollow
MaimonidesinholdingtheTorahtobeachallenge,notanendowment.YoushouldbeHoly(Kedoshim
tihiyu)isnotadeclarationorapromise,butacommandment.
IfbyIsraelinyourquestionyoumeantheStateofIsrael,then,whileIhaveintensecriticismofmuchof
whatwedohere,Idoindeedfeelthatwearemoremoralthanothernations.Certainly,comparedtothe
wayinwhichtheUnitedStatesanditsallieswagewarweareremarkablyrestrained,andconcernedto
minimizecollateraldamage(despitewhatourenemiesandfellowtravelersmaintain).
14)WhybeJewishaccordingtoMaimonidesorasaMaimonidean?
IfonebelievesthatGodrevealedtheTorahtotheJewishpeople,thenofcourseremainingJewishfulfills
Godswill.MaimonidesthoughtthatthechoiceoftheJewswasGodsbackupplan,aftertheoriginal
Abrahamiccovenantproveditselftobeincapableofmaintainingethicalmonotheism(andyes,Iknow
wherethetermcomesfrom)intheEgyptianenvironment.
ThereareotherreasonswhypeoplemightchoosetoremainJewish,but,asIhavepointedoutonseveral
occasions,thereasonsmustbeserious:itturnsoutthatthechoiceofEuropeanJewsintheNineteenth
CenturytoremainJewishendedupcondemningmany,manyoftheirdescendentstodeathatthehands
ofNazis.GiventhetrulyfrighteningriseofantiSemitisminourworld,andthewayinwhichitinfects
thosewhomonewouldexpecttoknowbetter,Ithinkitisobviousthatoneshouldhaveastrongerreason
thansentimentorstubbornnesstoremainJewish.
https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

9/11

8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

15)ShouldnttheRosheiYeshivadecidewhatisJewishthought?
AgoodfriendofminelikestosayaboutaprominentRoshYeshiva,heknowssomuchmorethanhe
understands.MasteringhugeswathsofTalmudicliteraturedoesnotatheologianmake.Itisalsoa
categorymistaketothinkthatonecanpaskentheologyasonepaskenshalakhah
YoucanaskMaimonidesaboutthathisoftrepeatedcriticismofhisrabbiniccolleaguesfor
misunderstandingthebasicteachingsoftheTorahisquitewithering(introductiontoHelek,beginningof
TreatiseonResurrection,etc.).
AsthelateanddeeplylamentedRabbiAharonLichtensteinpointedout,mostoftodayssocalled
gedolimcannotwriteasentenceincorrectHebrew,andIadd,evenunderstandthegrammaticalpoints
madebyRashiinhiscommentarytotheTorah.
16)WhatofMaimonidesLawsofMourning3:3?
Acleverreaderpointedoutthatthetitleofmynewbook,TheyTooareCalledHumanisoddsince
MaimonidesactuallyfollowsR.ShimonbarYohaiindecidingthatthelawsconcerningritualimpurityin
anenclosedspace(tumahbeohel)donotobtainwithrespecttothebodiesofdeceasednonJews(Laws
ConcerningMourning,III.3).Whilethisistechnicallycorrect,itisbesidethepoint,sinceMaimonidesis
carefulnottociteR.ShimonbarYohaisreasonforhisdecision(thatnonJewsarenotcalledhuman).
LetitbefurthernotedthatsincetheMiddleAgesatleastithasbeensuggestedthatR.Shimonhimself
mayhaveonlybeenmakingatechnicalpointaboutthelawsofritualimpurity,withoutmakingany
claimsaboutthehumanity(orlackthereof)ofnonJews.However,ifitwasR.Shimonsintentiontodeny
thefullhumanityofnonJews,then,asarguedinmybookindetail,Maimonidescertainlydidnotagree
withhim.Nordidhethinkthattumahisanactualcharacteristicofimpureentities.Hegoestogreat
trouble(inGuideIII.47andelsewhere)toarguethatritualpurityandimpurityarehalakhic,
institutionaldistinctionsonly.

ThisentrywaspostedinUncategorized.Bookmarkthepermalink.

Commentsareclosed.
https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

10/11

8/2/2016

InterviewwithMenachemKellnerTheyTooareCalledHuman:GentilesintheEyesofMaimonides|TheBookofDoctrinesandOpinions:

CreateafreewebsiteorblogatWordPress.com.

TheCoralineTheme.

https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/02/07/interviewwithmenachemkellnertheytooarecalledhumangentilesintheeyesofmaimonides/

11/11