Dynamic Memory Allocation

24/05/2016
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rbruce67
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Thursday, September 22, 2005 0:53 PM (permalink)
Dynamic memory allocation
Is dynamic memory allocation possible in C18? I notice a lack of functions in the *alloc
family, and that suggests "NO". Also, I don't see anything in the C18 manual or the C18
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Libraries doc about memory allocation. I'm converting some microprocessor "c" code for
use on the PIC18F, and having dynamic allocation would save a bunch me rewriting time.
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Thanks for your help.
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Rob Bruce
Senior Engineer
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RE: Dynamic memory allocation Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:03 AM (permalink)
http://www.microchip.com/forums/m114990.aspx
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Just take the time to appreciate that the RAM 'memory' in a Harvard architecture like the
PIC is very different than other systems' RAM memory. In the PIC, the RAM is more like a
very large CPU register file (hence the term 'file register'). You never allocate this RAM for
placing program code, as in other systems. Program memory, when using a PIC18 in
microcontroller mode, is always FLASH memory or 'ROM'-like. Doing a malloc() in flash
makes little sense. The linker also does only static allocation due to very limited internal
RAM that you generally find on a PIC.
Now, if you are talking about external memory bus equipped models, then it's another
story. Perhaps you can implement malloc() and move compiled code around in external
memory, if the code is entirely runtime relocatable. Most C functions are.
#2
jtemples
malloc() has nothing to do with executable code; it is used for dynamic data memory
allocation.
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jtemples
Is dynamic memory allocation possible in C18?
It's possible, but you're on your own; malloc() is not provided with the library.
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rbruce67
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I have been savoring the Harvard architecture for a while now, with its tasty divided data
and program space, and I believe that I am ready to consume some data memory at last.
The PIC I'm targetting (18F6722) has 3938 Bytes of data RAM, which seems almost
luxurious. Nevertheless, I had hoped to be able to allocate and de-allocate at runtime.

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It's kind of looking like no *alloc functionality in C18 libraries.

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Rob Bruce
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rbruce67
Thanks. At least I'm not looking for something that's not there. If I'm successful in
creating malloc and free, I'll post them for the greater good.
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Rob Bruce
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magio
ORIGINAL: rbruce67
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Thanks. At least I'm not looking for something that's not there. If I'm
successful in creating malloc and free, I'll post them for the greater good.
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malloc() functions as i understand it... requires an OS that will handle the 'free' of it.
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You don't have an OS on the PIC, I think i've seen malloc () mentioned on some 'fast
reading' on some places where they talk about OSes for PIC18xxx devices...
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jtemples
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All malloc does is give you a pointer to a chunk of memory of the specified size. free()
returns that chunk of memory to the pool so a subsequent call to malloc() can reuse it.
You don't need an OS to do this. The reason it doesn't show up in C compilers for small
micros is that it's generally just not practical to use. When people want it, it's usually
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because they're trying to port code from an existing application, not because they need or
want malloc() to solve their problem.
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magio
RE: Dynamic memory allocation Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:14 PM (permalink)
ORIGINAL: jtemples
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All malloc does is give you a pointer to a chunk of memory of the specified
size. free() returns that chunk of memory to the pool so a subsequent call to
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malloc() can reuse it. You don't need an OS to do this. The reason it doesn't
show up in C compilers for small micros is that it's generally just not
practical to use. When people want it, it's usually because they're trying to
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port code from an existing application, not because they need or want
malloc() to solve their problem.
Yes, I understand that.

But, lets just go further and for example lets think that we have 50 bytes of RAM, and we
do the following example, where the numbers are decimal
1) Malloc(20) (unsigned char type) (from 0 to 19)
2) Malloc(15) (from 20 to 34)
3) Free(first block) (from 0 to 19). Then we have ocuppied from 20 to 34
4) Malloc(21) Sould give an error message although we have . This procedure should rise a
malloc() error, because of 'lack of contigous memory'. This could be accomplished if
'somehow' the malloc function or some 'depuration process' relocates the 2nd malloc
block. Then we could have a 'handler table' that will now point the 2nd block to the new
position!, so we'll have memory freem from 15 to 50 .
This kind of 'depuration process' could be done very fast as an OS process without the
need of changing our code or the pointer specified on the code. The pointer could 'point'
to the 'index' on the handlers table instead of the fixed area in memory.
There's is were i think that something more important than just a function malloc should
be there in order to make the malloc function really powerful.
Is just a "morning" thought. I hope i made the concept clear.
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#9
Guest
It is tempting to have memory allocation available when you're writing/porting a OS kernel,

for example.
But the cost of implementing dynamic memory allocation (even by a OS kernel) goes
beyond that. The memory resource descriptor table takes space, and if you need to
manage memory block ownership you need a task owner descriptor in that table, and
maybe a task current resource list. When you have plenty of resources, this is relative
straightforward, but with low RAM, the cost can be unacceptable.
The garbage collector approach (like you described) requires another thing: the OS needs
to either translate pointers to actual addresses on-the-fly, by using relative indirection
with 'base address' visible by the OS, or the tasks need to have a callback to update the
pointers when the garbage collector moves blocks. This has an impact on performance as
well as on architecture.
There is a minimal approach to malloc, that can be implemented in an OS but does not
require it, that describes the memory pool as a bitmap in which the basic memory
allocation (int or long) is a bit in the bitmap. The malloc() and free() refer to the bitmap to
flag a allocated/free memory unit. This can be easily implemented in PIC18Fs.
Although for a multitasking system *alloc() functions are desirable, sometimes it make
sense just to analyse your code and use fixed allocation to preserve management
resources and increase performance.
The only scenario when I see the need for it is when you have tasks being
loaded/unloaded dynamically.
< Message edited by j_doin -- Sep. 22, 2005 9:15:51 AM >
#10
magio
Now i see your point.

Nice explanation on the subject.
And its true, is a design for tasks being loaded and unloaded, and I agree is not the
'common use' of a PIC.
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By the enjoyed the complex that things can become if we go 'further'

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#11
Guest
That's interesting. And you are writing the OS kernel?

I'd like to hear your results / approaches to task management.
#12
whsiung
Hi,
Not sure if this's what you want: Dynamic Memory Allocation for the MPLAB C18 C
Compiler.
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Best regards,
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WH Tan
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Dynamically loadable/discardable tasks have another memory allocation issue: internal RAM
footprint of task variables and data objects. You have to handle variable space allocation
conflicts and inter-process shared data areas. You have also to guarantee the compiler
generates fully address-independent relocatable code, else you will have to patch opcodes
for longjumps and jumptables.
Is your application written for an external memory PIC? I'm preparing to port my
microkernel to a external memory architecture using the 18F8722. I have implemented it in
the iAPX'486 architecture with full *alloc() and task load support, including dynamic OS
memory compaction. But in a intel segmented protected mode architecture this is so much
simpler.
I would like to have task load/unload in the system (to allow external mass storage to
have 'PIC .EXE programs'), and task memory allocation is one critical issue.
But I have not decided yet if dynamic memory makes sense in the PIC architecture. I'm
tending to a static memory allocation, with the tasks being compiled as objects and having
a standard COFF file in the disk. The OS can have a 'linker snapshot' in memory and read
the COFF for the task being loaded in memory. Then the memory allocation needs simply
be extracted from the COFF and the loader 'patches' the relocatable objects in the binary
loading process at external RAM. The advantages are the simplicity of the programmer's
model, that remains essentially the same for internal RAM data allocation. If the 'runtime
linker' is ever implemented correctly, it would be funny to have a task internal variables
addresses being updated directly in the opcode fields on-the-fly by the OS. System global
and shared variables update would require a quite sofisticated linker, and certainly take
longer. Since almost always the system would be used for realtime response, this is not
trivial. So, a degree of internal memory allocation granularity is inevitable. This is all still in
the research phase, and I didn't look abroad at other PIC OSes to see how they handle
task loading/unloading.
The *alloc() functions in this external memory makes sense, and is very simple to
implement, and pointer access is natural for external memory RAM (which I believed will be
treated as rom by C18).
#14
magio
ORIGINAL: j_doin
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That's interesting. And you are writing the OS kernel?
I'd like to hear your results / approaches to task management.
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No, im not writing an OS kernel. I just find the subject fascinating but now i just don't
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have the enough spare time that such a work requires.
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#15
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Ok. Maybe in the next 4 months I have something implemented, if I find time to spend on
this. When some concrete results come up, I may post at the forum.
#16
magio
It will be quite intereseting.

Even more if its 'open source' or at least 'free'.
May be you could recruit some 'volunteers' here to help you on the task.
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#17
Guest
It certainly would be nice. The plan is to make it available as open source.

Probably the kernel will be coded entirely in assembly, or the largest part of it. My
implementation on the '486 is written entirely in Microsoft MASM, using protected mode.
But it is very well documented, so it hopefully will be not a trouble to rewrite.

About the co-writing, well it's exciting. I am certainly open to make this a collaborative
effort. With so many nice interfacing coming to the PIC18, like USB and Ethernet, a very
tight OS could be nice.
My basic design goal is to retain a user-transparent programming environment, so the
user may write tasks that are oblivious of other tasks, and maybe of the operating system
also. But the power of a multitasking environment comes when you use the OS for
intertask communication like messaging, semaphores and signals.
I've not delved deep into it yet, but I think that C18 can provide the structure to integrate
the OS with the programming model.
#18
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24/05/2016
magio
Nice thing :)
Let us know about the project. Some of use could 'help' with some lines or at least with
the 'debugging' of it.

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#19
Guest
As soon as I have something, I post here ;-)
#20
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Dynamic memory allocation | Microchip

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Thursday, September 22, 2005 0:53 PM (permalink)

Dynamic memory allocation

Thanks for your help.

Compile MPLAB X project by command line

MPLAB C18 Student Edition

Build failure & Error message?

compilation problem (MDDFS-SD-PIC18 Explorer Board-PIC18F

MDD Library PIC18F Error

could not find definition of symbol

After MakeoneDeviceE.bat Hardware UART not linking

warning when using numbers

Dynamic memory allocation | Microchip

Total Posts : 9580

Is dynamic memory allocation possible in C18?

Total Posts : 9580

Dynamic memory allocation | Microchip

luxurious. Nevertheless, I had hoped to be able to allocate and de-allocate at runtime.

It's kind of looking like no *alloc functionality in C18 libraries.

Rew ard points : 0

Embedded Software and Hardware Development

Dynamic memory allocation | Microchip

Total Posts : 9580

Rew ard points : 0

Total Posts : 2164

Yes, I understand that.

Dynamic memory allocation | Microchip

Embedded Software and Hardware Development

It is tempting to have memory allocation available when you're writing/porting a OS kernel,

Now i see your point.

By the enjoyed the complex that things can become if we go 'further'

Rew ard points : 0

Embedded Software and Hardware Development

Dynamic memory allocation | Microchip

That's interesting. And you are writing the OS kernel?

Dynamic memory allocation | Microchip

have the enough spare time that such a work requires.

Rew ard points : 0

Embedded Software and Hardware Development

Dynamic memory allocation | Microchip

It will be quite intereseting.

Total Posts : 2164

Embedded Software and Hardware Development

Rew ard points : 0

It certainly would be nice. The plan is to make it available as open source.

But it is very well documented, so it hopefully will be not a trouble to rewrite.

Dynamic memory allocation | Microchip

the 'debugging' of it.

Total Posts : 2164

Embedded Software and Hardware Development

Rew ard points : 0

As soon as I have something, I post here ;-)

- - - - MPLAB C18 Compiler

2016 APG vNext Commercial Version 4.5

Dynamic memory allocation | Microchip

External interrupt 1 select pin RB1 (RPI33)

FFT of sine function using PIC32MX795F

Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems co

How to shut down web server in harmony,