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Engineer Ali Mirza [Mirxa] in one of his lectures have made several comments on Imam ,Muaviah AS.
We are going to each objection one by one.
It is tried to response the engineer logically,rationally,analytically and reasonably.
First Objection.
Analyzation:=
This is an argumentation [Istadla:l] which is from the Text of a tradition from a H:adi:s in the Canon Of
S:ah:ih: Muslim. One of the six Canonical Books Of Canon of Ahlussunnah Val Jama:ah.
According to this tradition Holy Prophet S:ALLALLAHU ALAIHI VA SALLAMA send Saiyiduna Ibn Abbas
RD to call Saiyiduna Mua:viah Alaihis Sala:m. But He [AS] eating . Saiyiduna Ibn Abbas RD was sent
again (by Holy Prophet S.A.V.S). Saiyiduna Muaviah AS was still eating. So Holy Prophet SAVS said in
requard to Him that May ALL-H not fill his Stomach . [ ADAM ISHBA:].
These words are assumed to be a curse of Holy Prophet upon Saiyiduna Muaviah.
Discussion:=
These words are not curse as assumed by enemies of Saiyiduna Mua:viah AS in general then the
hidden enemy Ali Miza and his followers Alimirzites. These words are blessing. Actually this person
whose proper noun is Ali Mirza has made every thing topsy-turvy. He had changed a Blessing into a
curse.
But it is a Blessing. So it is necessary to prove that Ali Mirza hath committed an error.
But the attempt is to prove that it is a blessing not a curse.
Once this is proved then the claim of Engineer Ali Mirza [Alimirza] shall be falsified.
Claim: The words [ Sentence] of Saiyiduna Rasu:llullah SAVS are Blessing.
PREREQUISITES:=
Defination:=
Curse:= 1.1]The word curse is used in the meaning to pray to Deity [ALL-H SUBH:NAHU: VA T:AA:LA]
to harm [ D:-R-R] of a Person or distruction a Place or a Thing.
1.2] To be away from Divine Mercy [Rah:mah] or Blessing.

Blessing:= 2.1] The word is used in the meaning to pray to ALL-H to reward [by doing good to haim] a
Person or to make good in a place or a thing.
2.2] Rah:mah.
The words [Sentence] said by the Holy Prophet is a blessing and not a curse. It may be noted that
Blessing and Curse are opposites [Antonyms] in Genral.
Food [Nourishment/ Rizq] is included in one of the Rewards. It is connected by the Divine Active [ or
Relative ] Attribute Tarzi:q.
The result is that Riqz that is provided to a Human Being is Directly related to the Divine Attribute of
Tarzi:q. This is a Blessing in general with the Exception of Prohabittet food [Rizq] like wine or meat of
swine [pork] etc.

Proof:= As Holy Prophet SAVS prayed to ALL-H that may the stomach not be filled, this means that
May [Saiyiduna] Ami:r Mua:viah consume more Rizq and may the desire to receive more blessing [in
form of food] not cease to be..
Since it hath been proved that to Receive food from the Deity is a Blessing in general since it is
directly connected to the Divine Attribute of Tarzi:q. To be connected by a Divine Attribute is a
Blessing in General.
The question is that why Alimirzaites and their founder Alimirza assumed that this is a curse?
The reason is that a number of S:ufia [Mystics] have claimed that a person must eat food as little as
possible, and a person may consume the food necessary for his/her survival, and may not use food
more than the necessary requirement.
This view is not found in Qura:n or in Authentic Hadis.
But it may be noted once for all that Holy Prophet SAVS did not prayed that he may consume food
more than it is required ,but he prayed that may the capability to consume the food [which is a Divine
Blessing as proved above] increase to some extent. It is not the abnormal increase but a slight
increase in the stated above Capability.
An other reason may be that there is a disease which is traditionally called Ju Al Baqar [Hunger of a
Cow]. In this case a hunger remains constants even if a ill person eats to an extant that he is unable to
eat any more to to the filling of his/her stomach by the food.
But this is a different thing. To eat some than a slight more then a number of average people is one
thing and to eat extra ordinary is an other thing. It may be another REASON which compelled the
founder of Alimirzaism i.e Engineer Ali Mirza [Alimirza] to err.
Evidence From Quran:
Qura:n Stateth that those who die in the Way of ALL-H are provided Rizq. This is a proof that food is a
blessing and not a curse. A slight increase in Blessing cannot be claimed to be a curse.
Mutazi;ah VS Ahlussunnah
Mutazilah [in general]claimed that the prohabited eatables are not included in Rizq and Ahlussunnah
doeth include them it Rizq. This is the reason that with the exception of prhabitted food and eatables
all the food and eathable are included in Rizq.
For sake of an argument:=
Let it be supposed for sake of an argument that it is a Curse [Astaghfarullah Va Naudhubillah] in
reguard to Maulana Mua:viah [AS].
Then it is a pray to ALL-H to cause some harm either in this world or in the world after the Doomsday. [
Alqiya:mah].
But there is not only virtually no harm but also really no harm to have a desire to eat or to consume
more food relative to average people, rather it is a Blessing from the Deity. It MUST be noted that this
increase is not to an extent that it may be confused by the stated above disease [which require a
cure ,a treatment or a medication].
It may be noted that Body Builders, Wrestlers, Boxers do require more food then a normal person and
this is never included in disease or sickness.
One thing may please be noted that If a person is not Cafir/Kafir then his increase of desire of food
cannot be considered as a Blessing since this is the basic,fundamental and Necessary condition for
Divine Blessing.

Second Objection
Saiyiduna Muaviah was not the Katib Al Vah:y, since at the time He was appointed as the official
Katib, the entire Qura:n was reviled.
Answer to the Intelectual Objection [ Al I:tira:d: Al Aqli] on the Official Belief of Ahlussuunnah.
There is no evidence that it is Necessary for the Katib Al Vahy to write the immediately revealed A:yah
of the Holy Qur:an.
If Ali Mirza the founder of Alimirzaism or Jahlumiaism has a single tradition he would have attempted
to present this tradition explicitly stating this condition.
A Katib Al Vahy is a person who wrote Ayat of Qura:n after being appointed by the Holy Prophet ,
whether he used to write immediate descended A:ya:t or previously Written and Descended A:ya:t.
So this objection is just based on a conjecture which requireth proof an the burden of the proof of the
Allegation of Ali Mirza the Founder of Ali Mirzaism is upon Ali Mirza Himself.
Third Objection
Ali Mirza claimeth that Saiyiduna MUAVIAH [RD] confessed that some prohabitted acts are done in his
house like the use of suits of lion/tiger skin etc. When the objection was made by a S:ah:bi, Saiyiduna
Muaviah was unable to reply.
Answer to the third objection.
The prohibition of these things were not to the level of H:urmah but to the Karahiah Tanzihiahas
according to The Ijtiha:d of Saiyiduna Va Maulana Muaviah.
He did not answered since he did not wanted a debate on this issue.

If Engineer Ali Mirza wanteth to proceed the discussion further we shall gladly
proceed it to the extent Ali Mirzah liketh to extend it.
Forth Objection:Jhelum.

Refutation Of An Answer by Ali Mirza of an Objection on Engineer Ali Mirza of

It is argued by some Sunni scholars that Saiyiduna Muaviah is a Katib Al Vahy and to doubt his
sincerity is to doubt the authenticity of Textus Receptus of Quran.

The Heretic attempts to respond this objection as follow.

1] Supreme Being ALL-H HimSelf have stated to conserve and protect Quran so not human being can
be claimed to protect it.
2] When Saiyiduna Abu Bakr WANTED to compile and to collect the Quran in a single volume of a book
, he appointed Saiyiduna Zaid [RD] AND NOT Saiyiduna Muaviah RD.
Answer to first Response of Ali Mirza of Jhelum.
ALL-H Conserveth and Saveth Quran , But He Hath adopted the Method that his by Human Beings.
That is the reason if one tries to make doubt in each one of Katib Al Vahy, its consequence is to doubt
in Conservation Of Quran. Does Ali Mirza not see that denouncers of Sahabah also deny the
Conservation of Holy Quran.
If one Kitab Al Vah:y after an other is accused and is doubted and the series is continued then this
implies that Authenticity of Quran atleast is Probable [ Naudhubillah Va Lahaula Vala Quvata Illa
Billah] or Qura:n is Unauthentic with certainty[Astaghfarullah]. And there is no exception from this
rule. If Saiyiduna Muaviah RD is doubted then on similar reasoning [reasoning as hypothesized by Ali
Mirza] even Saiyiduna Ali RD can be doubted. Thus no thing remains.

Rafid:i mujtahid of the last period, Molvi Dildaar Ali whom Ravafid: great Imam,
Molvi Hamid Husain calls Ayatullah fil aalameen, writes in Emadul Islam:
The conclusion of these narrations is that there was certainly a
tampering (tahreef) in this Quran which is before us, with respect to an
addition of some letters (huroof) and a loss of some letters even some
words and with respect to the order. In this way after believing in these
narrations, there cannot be any doubt in the tampering of Quran. (after
this Molvi Dildaar Ali has mentioned forms of tampering which we may
produce if Ali Mirza Demands, InshaAllah).
Muhsin Kashi, in the preface of Tafsir Saafi, narrating (Rafid:i) traditions of Tahreef,
says on page 32 (pr The meaning of all these narrations as well as the hadiths
which have been transmitted with the sanad of Ahl-al-Bayt, is that the Quran which
is with us is not exactly as it was descent on Muhammad sallAllahu alayhe
wasallam but in it something is opposite to what Allah descent and there are some
changes and tampering and certainly much of its content has been removed for
example the name of (Imam) Ali from many places, in addition to this it is known
from these narrations that the order of this Quran (arrangement of verses and
chapters) is not as was agreed by God and His Messenger. This all is agreed upon by
Ali bin Ibrahim Qummi.inted in Tehran, 1375 hijri).
Only four Rafid:I scholars have rejected the idea of non ;conservation of Qura:n.
There names are:=1] Shaykh Suduq [S:udu:q],2] Shari:f/Shari:f
Murtad:a,3]Nas:ruddi:n Tu:si: and 4] T:abrasi.
Rest have not accepted this view.
The famous Rafid:i scholar and student of Mulla Baqar Majlisi, Nematullah Jazayeri
writes in his book Anwarun Numaniyah:Those who have rejected (aqeedah of)
4

Tahreef in Quran (i.e. Shaykh Sudooq, Shareef Murtadha, Tusi and

mufassir Tabrasi) have done so due to many considerations (expediency)
(i.e. due to taqiyyah to fool sunnis) because they have accommodated
such hadiths and traditions in their books in a big number which claim
that Quran has undergone tampering and that the so and so verse was
revealed this way but later on it was tampered.
But Engineer Ali Mirza who is very keen to make objections from Saiyiduna
Muaviah to Imam Ibn Taimiah, from Imam Inb Taimayiah[Taimiah] to Shab Abdul
Aziz and Shah Ismail, and from them to Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi and Rada Shah
Of Bans Baraili [ Not to confuse with Rai Baraili], fails to make a single comment on
those Rafid:ites [alleged] scholarswho disbelieve in the Divine Conservation OF Al
Quran.
But it must be noted that those Usulites of Rafidites who claim to believe in
Conservation of Divine Quran do not believe in the certainty and certitude of
Conservation [Qat:iah] but believe in the Probable [Zanni] conservation since the
do not denounce the belief in Non Conservation as Kufr, This is ONLY POSSIBLE IF
THEY BELIEVE THAT THE CONSERVATION IS PROBABLE AND NOT CERTAIN. ORTHER
WISE THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE.
This is the result of disbelieving in any one of the Katib Al Vah:y.
Answer to 2nd Response of Ali Mirza of Jhelum.
Saiyiduna Abu Bakr did not even call Saiyiduna Ali RD. So of not calling Mu aviah RD is an objection
then similarly not calling Ali is an objection on Ali.
This the the counter objection which Ali Mirza terms as Anti Venom [Some time as powdered medicine
for digestion etc.=Phakki ].
How ever a detail analysis of this objection and the borrowed objection of Rafidites shall be responded
Insha: All-h.