How can someone say that all Tamils are descended from Agattiyar or Tolkappiyar or

Tiruvalluvar?

How can someone say that all aryans esp brahmins, (who claim that their mother tongue is
Sanskrit) are descended from Brahma or Prajapathis (dhaksha etc) or 14 Manus in each
Manvatharas or evolved from the mouth of Purusha etc etc.

14 May (2 days ago)

>>

14 May (2 days ago)

How can someone say that all Tamils are descended from Agattiyar or Tolkappiyar or
Tiruvalluvar?

How can someone say that all aryans esp brahmins, (who claim that their mother tongue is
Sanskrit) are descended from Brahma or Prajapathis (dhaksha etc) or 14 Manus in each
Manvatharas or evolved from the mouth of Purusha etc etc.

>> Two things here...

1) That we do not have any textual evidence to say that Tamils descended from agathiyar or
tolkaapiyar.

2)That we have direct textual evidences saying that ( not just bramhins) all people descended
from bramha/manu/purusha... and can keep adding.

If you deny the second you actually deny it because you deny the text itself.You think the text is
full humbug so the any evidence you claim that it offers must be humbug.

That being said we must deny any attack on varna system manu etc.. why take a humbug text and
attack each and everything it says..? you can very well say whatever the text says is humbug
because the text itself is humbug and leave it as it is.

Some people can explain this as belief passed down for generations sourced from a old text
under reference.

I am intrested to see whether an explanation for... that it is indeed a widely held belief that all
tamils have descended from agasthiyar/tholkaapiyar and such a belief is rooted in some old text.

It will be more funny to see who agathiyar is.. !! and who satyavrata manu is as according to
texts if we atlest conisder texts are valid for argument sake.

If the above is not acceptable it is you better dont discuss at all..

I meanwhile will hone my skills that will aid me to correct spelling mistakes..and grammatical
mistakes especially in tamil

14 May (2 days ago)

>>
baby ramacrishna
?
http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#CommMsgs?cmm=87267074&tid=5335475707083547373&na=1
&nst=1

That being said we must deny any attack on varna system manu etc.. why take a humbug
text and attack each and everything it says..? you can very well say whatever the text says
is humbug because the text itself is humbug and leave it as it is.

Then you people should obey Manu code, which says that "Let him (Brahmin) not dwell in a
country where the rulers are Shudras." (Manu IV. 61). I do say that this text is not humbug.

In UP, for power and money, these Brahimins are shaking hands with Sudra ruler, disobeying
and attacking Manu's Varna System.

S Ve Sekar and his aryan munnetra kazhagam are doing the same in Tamil Nadu.

Both in Tamil Nadu and UP, the rulers are Shudras only.

14 May (2 days ago)

delete

2)That we have direct textual evidences saying that ( not just bramhins ) all people
descended from bramha/manu/purusha... and can keep adding.

is this direct text from vishnu purana scientifically correct and possible?

MAITREYA. Thou hast briefly related to me, Muni, the creation of the gods and other beings: I
am desirous, chief of sages, to hear from thee a more ample account of their creation.
******
*******
PARÁŚARA.--The divine Brahmá, influenced by their material energies, having created these
beings, made others of his own will. Birds he formed from his vital vigour; sheep from his
breast; goats from his mouth; kine from his belly and sides; and horses, elephants, Sarabhas,
Gayals, deer, camels, mules, antelopes, and other animals, from his feet: whilst from the hairs of
his body sprang herbs, roots, and fruits.

How dinosaur was created?

14 May (2 days ago)

AN

,
? ??
??
?

14 May (2 days ago)

Then you people should obey Manu code, which says that "Let him (Brahmin) not dwell in a
country where the rulers are Shudras." (Manu IV. 61). I do say that this text is not humbug.

>> for argument sake.. if you have considered that the above is not humbug.. I will ask you for
arguent sake to understand what the word "shudra" could mean

In UP, for power and money, these Brahimins are shaking hands with Sudra ruler, disobeying
and attacking Manu's Varna System.

>> Well for argument sake itis right and for any other sake it is still right because they never said
this statement which manu is alleged to have written is applicable to us.Manu it seems is a guide-
line not commandment.

S Ve Sekar and his aryan munnetra kazhagam are doing the same in Tamil Nadu.

>> Oh yes arya means a respectful person..In political circle everyone respects Mu.ka the oldest
and wisest of all the active politicians
Both in Tamil Nadu and UP, the rulers are Shudras only.

>> now what do you mean by the word shudra?.. we are discussing for argument sake.. for all
practical purpose for you the term shudhra doesnt apply so as I want to adopt myself to your
point of view to analyse.. we are discussing this for argument sake.

The question remains .. who is a shudhra what does it mean.. the word shudhra.. the actual
meaning without applying to any context.

14 May (2 days ago)

PARÁŚARA.--The divine Brahmá, influenced by their material energies, having created these
beings, made others of his own will. Birds he formed from his vital vigour; sheep from his
breast; goats from his mouth; kine from his belly and sides; and horses, elephants, Sarabhas,
Gayals, deer, camels, mules, antelopes, and other animals, from his feet: whilst from the hairs of
his body sprang herbs, roots, and fruits.

How dinosaur was created?

>> we are looking at the translation and arguing.. let us take the original reference and look at
the meaning... this is merely some text from some book.

One more thing how many hindus really go by every aspect and utterences of such abook..!!

Is there any hard and fast rule to take whatever a purana or such a kind of text says as true and
indeed cannot be fallible or questionable or rejectable?..

I am not questioning what you just referred I am merely raising a question about extent of
validity of puranas and their efficacy in ascertaining goals in ones life

14 May (2 days ago)

one more question is Mu.Ka a shudra? !! I think at this point of life he may be.. but never before.
14 May (2 days ago)

RK

How can someone say that all aryans esp brahmins, (who claim that their mother tongue is
Sanskrit) are descended from Brahma or Prajapathis (dhaksha etc) or 14 Manus in each
Manvatharas or evolved from the mouth of Purusha etc etc.

That is just mythology.

None of us are genetically Dravidian since there is no specific dravidian chromosome that
anyone has found till today. Most Indians including Tamils, are caucasoid (similar to
Europeans). So you may speak Tamil, but you are genetically NOT a dravidian and are not
descended from original Dravidian ancestors. The same is true for most of the speakers of Indo-
Aryan languages also, i.e they are not descended from the original Aryans.

Egyptians speak arabic and identify themselves as arabs, but they are not descended originally
from arabic ancestors. Over the course of last 1000-2000 years, they have simply assimilated into
arabic culture like how we have acquired a Dravidian culture or Aryan culture.

It is a false political motivated cruft to speak of a Dravidian or Aryan ethno-genetic identity.

Coming back to the topic, I will give the Dravidian words absorbed in Sanskrit...

14 May (2 days ago)

delete

pls proceed
15 May (19 hours ago)

Ragunaath R

1) That we do not have any textual evidence to say that Tamils descended from agathiyar or
tolkaapiyar.

today i'm a born christian but an authist. tommorow i can be converted into hindu another day i
can be a muslim. this identity cannot be changed. but i can't be a mallu or golty.

Why not? Are Tamils not marrying Mallus and Goltis today? Did they not migrate? Did not
outsiders come here and insiders go out? How can someone say that all Tamils are descended
from Agattiyar or Tolkappiyar or Tiruvalluvar? Do you know all your ancestors whether
they were speakers of Tamil only?

Its quite a complicated interpretation... Who said that all Tamils are descended from Agattiyar or
Tholkappiyar... where its likely to tell where people are indigenous creation / descendant of
Brahma / Manu / Purusha / Agathiyar / Tholkaapiyar without evolutionary process... Today
Tamils marrying Mallu / Golti / Chinese / English / German / African..... Indeed everyone
migrate. The identity sustains and changes in in space and time like how inter caste marriages
happen.

2)That we have direct textual evidences saying that ( not just bramhins) all people descended
from bramha/manu/purusha... and can keep adding.

If you deny the second you actually deny it because you deny the text itself. You think the text is
full humbug so the any evidence you claim that it offers must be humbug.

That being said we must deny any attack on varna system manu etc.. why take a humbug text and
attack each and everything it says..? you can very well say whatever the text says is humbug
because the text itself is humbug and leave it as it is.

Some people can explain this as belief passed down for generations sourced from a old text
under reference.

The evidence is to say, text wasn't descended directly from Brahma / Prusha, its all created by
People who claimed they descended from Brahma / Prusha according to the text.
16:07 (15 hours ago)
delete

That being said we must deny any attack on varna system manu etc..

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Lineage, descent;
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18:48 (12 hours ago)

delete

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The question remains .. who is a shudhra what does it mean.. the word shudhra.. the actual
meaning without applying to any context.

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