ANSWERS OF SOME ALLEGATIONS OF ENGINEER ALI MIRZA: ON SAIYIDUNA:

UTH:MA:N AND HIS NOBLE GOVERNERS RAD:IYALLAHU ANHUM.

Engineer Ali MIrza of Jhelum have made two accusations on Saiyiduna:
Uth:ma:n RD:. They are given as below:=
1] Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: did Commited some Errors and Mistakes.
Engineer Ali Mirza: in his enmity of Noble
Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD:
crossed all limits of Truth and Rationality, when he further make the worst
remark on the Noble Character of Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD:
When he uttered the following awful sentence in one of his Rafid:ite lectures.
He did remark as follow:
The Martyrdom of Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: becamUth:na:n did not
commit any error /mistake as alleged by Engineer Ali Mirza: .
Good out of evil is the event that after listening this lecture and such
sentences Ali Mirza: was exposed even to his blind followers and a number of
them drifted away from him and the only remainders with him are those who
are always ready to hear and accept any thing uttered by the mounth of the
Engineer Ali: Mirza: even if he speaks blasphemy.
Any how he is now exposed after such utterance of disgrace words against
Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: .
2] Engineer Ali: Mirza did claim that:=
The Governors Of Saiyduna: Uthma:n RD: Were the Actual Cause of the
Martyrdom Of Saiyiduna: Uthma:n RD: .

There are some more false accusations of Ali Mirza: of Jhelum which all
INSHA:ALLAH BE REFUTED LATTER. But in the present article the above two
accusations are discusses and refuted. Additionally the Heretic face of Ali:
Mirza: is shewn which was initially covered with the false claim of Manhaj of
Salaf.

DISCUSSION ON THE FIRST OBJECTION OF

HERETIC ALI: MIRZA: ON SAIYIDUNA:
UTH:MA:N RD: .
Those who Rebelled and Insurrected against the Noble Third Khali:fah of
Ahlussunnah constituted the first sectarian groups of the Heretics.
Their heresy was multifold.
1] They confused the difference between disputes of ijtiha:d and disputes of

Bidah [Heresy;pl:Heresies].

2] They confused the disputes of Ijtiha:d and the Transgession of Law of

Isla:m [Shaiah/Shar].
3] They confused the difference between an Error of Ijtihad and the
Transgression Of Law of islam.
4] They equated their alleged Ijtiha:d [Opinion] and Laws of Law of Isla:m
[Ah:ka:m SharulIsla:m].
The result of their heresies were as follow:
1] They declared Ijtiha:d of S:AH:BI like Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: as
Heresies. This was not the Heresy of Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: but one of the
Heresies of Insurgents and Rebellions themselves.
2] They considered their own alleged Ijtiha:ds [Ijtihada:t] as Shar and
accused the Noble Kali:fah as Heretic and committer of Heresies which they
had no right ; and also declared that he deserveth to be punished in Hell
[Astaghfarullah].
3] Based on their heretical opinions and views they concluded a very
heretical and transgressive and apostate opinion that The killing of
Saiyiduna: Uthma:n RD: permitted and allowed [ASTAGH:FARULLAH].
The reality and truth is that It Was Not Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: Who
Committed Errors ,Transgressions and Heresies , but the Rebellions and
Insurgents but the Heresies and Apostasys of the Rebellions and Insurgents
[Insurrectors].
A large number of accusations of those Insurgents and Rebellions are just the
special cases of these two Heresies.
Engineer Ali: Mirza: of Jhelum has a great sympathy for these rebellions and
Insurrectors/Insurgents . He can accuse any one for THE RESPSONSIBILITY of
the Murder of Saiyiduna Uth:ma:n including Saiyiduna: Uthma:n RD:
Himself Except those who actually and factually killed Saiyiduna Uth:ma:n
RD: . An alternative approach some what different about the mentality and
sensibility of Engineer Ali: Mirza is as follow:=
Engineer Ali: Mirza: is is determined not to accuse any one RESPONSISBLE
for the killing of Siyiduna: Uthma:n not even the actual rebellions and
practical killers of Uthma:n RD: but the Noble Governors and Saiyiduna:
Uthma:n RD: Himself.
We leave it to our readers to decide which is more preferable of the two
approached. One may prob into the mind of EngineerAli: Mirza: on this issue

by studying his heretical lectures.

This immediately unveils the fact that is not only a heretic but also has great
enmity of Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: restoring in him.
So the CLAIM of Ali: Mirza: that He [Ali: Mirza] fallows the Track [Manhaj] of
Salaf or Ahlussunnah or Both is falsified , and it becomes Obvious and
Evident that he [i.e Engineer Ali: Mirza:] Fallows the Manhaj of Killers Of
Uth:ma:n, and the Killers of Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: [Who Did Constitue
The First Heretic Sectarian Group in Isla:m ] are the Salaf of Ali: Mirza of
Jhelum.
Engineer Ali: Mirza: attempts to appear less hostile against Saiyiduna:
Uthma:n then his Salaf [i.e Killers stated above] by sending them except of
their view that it was allowed to Kill Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD:
[Astaghfarullahj], as it is evident from different lectures of him].
They may be stated in concise and precise sentences as follow:=
The Martyrdom of Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: became an Antonement
[Kaffarah/Caffarah] for his [Alleged] Errors/Mistakes. ASTAGHFARULLAH,
Since he did not commited the alleged Errors and the Acts of Him RD:
declared to be Errors are just false declaration.
What Ali: Mirza has said factually and actually exposes and unveils his
heretical believes and that he follows the Killers of Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n
except that he is some what moderate or practice hypocrisy, so that he may
not be identified as the followers of the Rebellions and Insurgents.
His scheme is exposed from a necessary implication of his sated above belief
which can be stated in the following sentence given below:=
If Saiyiduna: Uthma:n RD: was not killed by the Insurgents and Rebellions ,
he Must have died with out any Antonement of His Errors Astaghfarullah.
This is what Engineer Ali: Mirza of Jhelum wants to convince his audience
and viewers, who either attend his apostate lectures or watch them on
internet.
It appears that he hold this view in different forms for different S:ah:abah and
different scholars of Ahlussunnah.
This is an inevitable consequence and an implied corollary of his this apostate
belief, which even Ali Mirza: cannot deny, And if he does so this either
means he is speaking pure falsehood or is so unreasonable that he is not
capable to know the necessary implications and direct consequences of his
own sentences, and expressions.

Refutation of Some Possible Apologies Of Ali: Mirza: :=

It may be said that [by Ali: Mirza:] that he is not the only one, some other
scholars of Sunnism also said some sentences which are close to his views
and believes.
If one study different lectures of Engineer Ali: Mirza of Jhelum critically and
logically, one not only can understand the sensibility and mentality of the
Engineer of Jhelum but also can estimate and theorize his probable and
possible responses which he may present as an attempt to answer the
criticisms on him. So time to time one may contemplate on the possible and
probable responses of answers to Ali Mirza: as a mental and intellectual
ezxcercise.
This requires some discussions which are certainly necessary to be presented
.
It is the case that some Sunni scholars have Tendencies of T-sha-y- and on
the contrary some Sunni Scholars have the tendencies of Na:s:biah, yet they
still are Sunniites. The Tendencies are a different case. A number of people
are confused by two different types of tendencies and confused them with
the sects towards which they tend to.
Some persons commit several types of intentional or unintentional
Mistakes /Errors.
1] They declare such Scholars to be out of the folds of Ahlussunnah and
declare them in the sect toward which they have tendencies.
OR
2] They declare that they are right and those who are with out these
tendencies attempts to defend Pure Sunnism Unjustly.
[This incorrect declaration may be seen in the controversial book of Maulana
Maudu:di: namely Khila:fah and Mulu:kiah, where he declared works of Great
Sunnis Scholars in defence of Sunnism as as works of advocates. This is just a
Satire of Maula:na: Maudu:di: and cannot be accepted but Maula:na: purports
as if he is revealing a hidden truth ,Astaghfarullah].
OR
3] They over emphasis their sentences and such weak expressions,
misinterpret them, explain them under Non Sunnite contexts etc so that they
inspite of shewing respective tendencies ,they immediately seconds the sects
towards which they tend to.
Or
4] Try to defend their own heretic views ,which are not defendables.

In any case a number of such apostate alleged scholars do confuse the

tendencies to wards a sect in some other sect and the very sect towards
which they tend to.
Some time the mislead by claiming that they do not belong to any sect and
they are just neutral, yet they are more dangerous then a neutral neutron
which cause a chain reaction in an Atomic Bomb.
So if the Engineer under discussion if attempts to defend himself by using
such arguments he is using on of the fallacious ways stated above.
So if Engineer Ali: Mirza does find some scholars whos sentences have
tendencies which ascribe some errors in the Noble Acts of Saiyiduna:
Uth:ma:n RD: either the shall be rejected or shall be interpreted.
To reject a sentence without an Interpretation and to accept it with
interpretation are two different things and are NOT Mutually Exclusive as
opined by some enemies of Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: .
How ever if a sentence of a person with stated above tendencies is
uninterpretable , then it is incorrect yet is at most can present a tendency to
wards a heretic sect yet cannot support the sect. so those who supports the
sect in a particular issue cannot use them logically , rationally and reasonably
.
If they do so they prove themselves as illogical , unreasonable and irrational.
But to err is human and different scholars have err on different issues so
errors on this issue is equally possible as well as equally probable.
But Errors of some scholars howsoever great they may be cannot be used
against the correctness and accuracies.
So things does not depend upon the sentences and statements of them but
the proof provide by them , since their sentences and statements are nothing
but claims and it is necessary to study the proofs provide by then [if they
have] other wise to accept there sentences against S:ah:abah RD or
sentences with heretical tendencies can not be followed. There is no Taqli:d
against anu statement against S:ah:babah. These is no one even in
Muqallidi:n sect of Ahlussunnah to have said that Taqli:d is Vajib [Necessory]
if the claims go against S:ah:bah RD: .
2] Uptill now no one in Ahlussunnah and Salaf have attempt to apply this
type of Tradition on Saiyiduna: Uthma:n or Saiyiduna: Ali:. So it is a
innovation in isla:m , a heresy and an apostate view.
Counter Arguments:=
What Ali Mirza calls Anti Venom or Digestive Powder [of Eastern Medical
System/Phakki],and what is called Counter Question or Counter Arguments by

others may be presented in a better way:=

1] The Claim that :=
The Martyrdom [Shaha:dah] of Saiyiduna: Uthma:n RD:became an
Atonement for the Errors Of Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: [ASTAGHFARULLAH]
is as incorrect as to that :=
The Martyrdom [Shaha:dah] of Saiyiduna: Ali: RD: became an
Atonement for the Errors Of Saiyiduna: Ali: RD:
[Astaghfarullah]
2] The Heretic Claim Of Ali: Mirza: reproduced below :=
The Martyrdom [Shaha:dah] of Saiyiduna: Uthma:n became an Atonement
for the Errors Of Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n RD: [ASTAGHFARULLAH] is as
incorrect as the following claim written below :=
The Martyrdom [Shaha:dah] of Saiyiduna: H:usain RD: became an
Atonement for the Errors Of Saiyiduna: H:usain RD:.
[Astaghfarullah].
HERESY OF ENGINEER ALI: MIRZA:
Althouth there are some traditions which state that the mistakes of
a Muslim may be atoned by the different cases of death , but to aplly
this Hadi:th: on Saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n or Saiyiduna: Ali: etc. is a
Heresy.

1]The Errors of ijtiha:d does not require Martyrdom as their Atonements

[Kaffa:rah/Caffa:rah] , and to suggest that Errors Of Ijtiha:d of S:h:abah RD:
in particular as Sins or Transgressions or Errors of Non-Ijtiha:d is not only a
Transgression but the worst kind of Heresy.
It does appear that Engineer Ali Mirza does commit this Heresy and Apostasy
when he thinks that the Errors Of Ijtiha:d of S:h:a:bah RD: are atoned by
their Martyrdom or Repentance or both. Errors of Ijtiha:d are forgiven by Pure
Divine Will.
Estimating some Possible Responses Of Ali: Mirza:
One who has analytically and critically studied the lectures of the Engineer of
Jhelum can under stand the ingenious system of Ali Mirza:s Possible
Responses either invented by himself or taught and preached to him by
some Enimies of Uth:ma:n RD: and followers of Killers of Uth:ma:n.
They may say that Saiyiduna: Ali: did not commit errors at all but Saiyiduna:

Uthma:n RD: did commit errors. The same can be said for Saiyiduna:
Uthma:n and Saiyiduna: H:usain RD:
So it is necessary to produce some arguments which can unveil and unmask
Engineer Ali Mirza: and his tendencies towards Enemies of Saiyiduna:
Uth:ma:n RD: and some other S:ah:a:bah RD: .
1] It is well known that Saiyiduna: Ali: did his B--it after about six Lunar
Months of the Selection of Saiyiduna: Abu: Bakr RD: .
Is this an Error of Ijtiha:d RD: .
If according toAli: Mirza it is not then it is unveiled and unmasked once for all
time that Ali: Mirza: has no respect for the Selection of Saiyiduna: Abu Bakr
RD: as Khali:fah. Also if an event like this is not an Error according to the
Engineer Ali: Mirza: then how can he ascribe alleged Errors to Saiyiduna
Uthma:n RD: ? Since if Saiyiduna: Uthma:n commited some errors then
they are certainly lower in rank then the error of delaying the B--it of
Saiyiduna: Abu: Bakr RD: . In this case we shall request the followers and
disciples of Engineer ali Mirza ,audiences, viewers of lectures of Ali Mirza:
that in this case he is fully unveiled and unmasked. So how so ever he may
be and what so ever he may say in his defense , and what kind of
apologetical answer he may provide , he has every strong tendencies against
Saiyiduna: Abu Bakr RD: as well , and what else his needed to convince one
that he MUST NOT BE LISTENED [unless and otherwise one who wills to listen
has a comprehensive knowledge of Qura:n and Aha:di:th:, Arabic and
Salaf. ] as he misguides and misleads by misusing Traditions even if their
Asna:d are correct.
In such cases one may refer to two books of Muha:aqqiq Irshad Al Haqq
Ath:ari: ,one of the scholars of highest eminent.
If according to Ali: Mirza: it is, then the question is :=
Can Ali: Mirza: say that the Martyrdom of Ali: RD: became an atonement of
this error [Astaghfarullah].
If Ali: Mirza: says that this was an Error of Ijtihad but it was forgiven by ALLH the moment Saiyiduna: Ali: did B--it of Saiyiduna: Abu: Bakr RD:, then this
is just a statement which requires evidences according to the system of Ali:
Mirza: , which cannot be provided even by him in his own system.
It may be an other point of discussion that if Saiyiduna: Ali: did B--it a
period about Six Lunar month the Error of Continuity of Not doing B--t was
atoned but not the Error of delaying the B--it.
So can Ali: Mirza provide an evidence with chain of reporters [all Th:-qa:t]
that Saiyiduna: Ali: repented Explicitly on delaying the B--it for the stated
above period of time.

If not then mere the estimated claim that Saaiyiduna: Ali: repented cannot
be accepted.
Note the question is not on the ceasing of Continuity of Error but on the
forgiveness or atonement for the existence of the error in the period before it
ceased .
Our Answer in defence of Saiyiduna: Ali: RD: is that Errors of Ijtiha:d Does
Not Require to be Atoned , rather they are rewarded [ as there is an Ijma:
that Errors of Ijtiha:d are rewarded [not punished] and accuracy of Ijtiha:d
are rewarded twice].
2] The second example is about the event of Gargen of F-d-k.
It is well known that when Saiyiduna: Abu Bakr RD: Narrated the Hadi:th La
Nu:r-th:u that is the Law inhartance The law regulating the inheritance
of property is not applicable to Prophets, Saiyidatuna: Fa:t:imah RD: BECAME
ANGREE on Saiyiduna: Abu Bakr RD: .
Saiyiduna: Abu: Bakr RD: IS THE Most Authentic ,Most Trustworthy, Most
authoritive and Most Credible of All Narrators of Ah:adi:th: . To become
angry on Narration of Text Of H:adi:th: from the most reliable Narrator of
H:adi:th: in the entire World is just an Error Of Ijtiha:d. No other
interpretation is possible.
The question is what Ali: Mirza of Jhelum dared to apply on Saiyiduna:
Uth:ma;n RD: ,can this he apply on Saiyidatuna: Fat:imah
RD: .Astaghfarullah. If he cannot then the very same is true for Saiyiduna
Uth:ma:n RD: .
3] When Saiyidatuna: Fa:t:imah RD: became angry , Saiyiduna: Ali RD: Did
not try convince her that She is in Error since Saiyiduna Abu Bakr RD: is just
Narrating the Content Of Text of the Sentences said by Holy Prophet [S:AVS]
Himself.
This silence of Saiyiduna: Ali: is misused by enemies of Saiyiduna: Abu: Bakr
and DSaiyiduna: Umar Rad:iyallahu Anhuma: . But this is nothing but errors
of Ijtiha:d.

Can Ali Mirza of Jhelum say that the Martyrdom of

Saiyiduna: Ali: RD: became an Atonement for this Error
[Astaghfarullah].
One cannot say such a thing. Similarly it cannot be said for
Saiyiduna:
Uth:ma:n RD: .
4] There are some more counter examples but the above
are sufficient to prove once for all times rather once for all

eternities that what so ever is said by Ali Mirza: about

saiyiduna: Uth:ma:n is apostate heresy [Al Bidatul :ma:n
RD: .
KILLERS OF SAIYIDUNA: UTH:MA:N WERE THE FIRT
TERRORISTS OF ISLA:MIC WORLD.
The Killers Of Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n were the first
TERRORISTS in the Muslim World raither in Isla:mic world.
The killers of "Uth:ma:n did terrorise the People of Holy
Madi:nah. It was not a civil war which may be dfined as
follow:
1. A war between factions or regions of the same country.
Tecnically it was not even a proper ACT of rebel, an act of
armed resistance to an established government or leader.
It was an act of terrorism with rebellious tendencies.
2.It may be reported that "Ali Mirza: declares
SaiyidunaT:alh:ah or Saiyiduna: Mu"aviah or Saiyidatuna:
"A:'ishah RD as comitting acts of terrorism. 'Astagh:farullah.
There are two pssible cases.
First Case
It the report is incorrect then it is well and good.
Second Case
But if the report is correct then he has analogued the Killers
of "Uth:ma:n RD and the stated above S:h:a:bah RD , and
applied the same alleged rule on them. If this be the case
then "Ali Mirza: is exposed. How ever if this not be the case
then this means that this means that even he differentialtes
between the Killers of "Uth:ma:n RD and the stated above
S:ah:a:bah.
THE NOBLE GOVERNERS AND PREFECTS OF "UTH:MA:N RD:
The noble governers of Saiyiduna: "Uthma:n followed
Shari:"ah/ Sha-".
The problem with the rebellions was that they declared
different acts of Governers of Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n RD: and
Saiyiduna "Uth:ma:n RD: as transgressions [of Sar-"]or
Heresies or Sins.
They confused 'Ijtiha:d with Heresy. They forgot the basic

Principle that the Acts of S:ah:bah RD: even if incorrect is not

a Heresi [Bid"ah].
As the killers of "Uth:ma:n RD: were them selves HERETIC
and confused errors in Ijtiha:d by Trangressions of Shar-"
THEY became the Ancestors
Of Kharjites.
If it is even proved that the 'Ijtiha:d of the Governers were technically
incorrect, it is a Heresy to declare some one as Transgressor of Shar-" just
because of it, or by confusing it by transgression of Sar-"iah.
That is the reason often the Governers were found not guilty of transgression
of Shar-" OF Holy Prophet S:ALLALA:HU "ALAIHI VA SALLAMA.
But "Ali: Mirza: considers killers of "Uth:ma:n as committers of Errors of
'jtiha:d in one of his lectures.. These Heretics had no right of practising
'Ijtiha:d.
Unfortunately "Ali: Mirza has great sympathy with the Killers Of "Uth:ma:n.
To us KILLERS OF "UTH:MA:N WERE EVEN WORSE THEN THE KILLER OF
HUSAIN .
Both were Heretics and Sinners.
If to have sympathy with the Killers of H:usain is Nas:ibiah then to have
sympathies with killer of "Uthma:n RD: is a Rafid:iah.
A Counter Argument.
What "Ali Mirza "Uthma:n RD: if is said for H:usain RD: even he shal not
accept it.
This completes the proof that "Ali: Mirza is a narrow minded enemy of
S:ah:abah with great tendencies towards Ra:fid:iah.
QED.
END OF PART ONE.