Documente Academic
Documente Profesional
Documente Cultură
WITH
ADAM AND NATASHA
CONVERSATIONS
WITH
ADAM AND NATASHA
R. D.
Laing
Pantheon Books
New York
Copyright
All rights
1977 by
R. D.
Laing
in
in
Random House,
The Library
of
Congress
Inc., in
Inc.,
of
Canada
in
York,
by Pantheon Books, a
title
as follows:
Publication Data
Conversations with
1
Adam and
Natasha.
Natasha
III.
BF721.L27
I.
Laing,
Adam.
Title.
155 4'092'6
77-5185
isbn 0-394-71473-3
Manufactured
in
and
Limited.
1977
by
New
America
II
Laing,
To
my
family
Introduction
None
of
set
up They
.
penings
that
me
my
family
jotting things
life.
down
The children
a
lot of
my
done here or there, often with other people, including children, around. I do not think that the fact of writing
them down has significantly affected their character.
I've always enjoyed dialogue, repartee, and
interplay and reciprocity generally, with and without words.
However I have spent a considerable part of my life
studying unenjoyable communication, miscommuni cation
and failure to communicate, much of it in family contexts,
and in depicting, describing and theorizing about this domain
of misery. I have done so, largely because I attribute such
importance to the way we get on or not, with the people we
writing
is
live with.
It
affects
been described by
recent years.
been looked
at
to
is
much
me
light-
fierce
After pondering
it
over a
lot,
have decided
Since this
book
children
expect
adults,
is
and since
pertise, that
will
it
child 'experts'.
I
apparent
that
children as
it
it
is
hope
that these
is just
pages
will contribute to
for children to
be
in
making
in touch with
We
Our understanding
be
enormously impoverished
if
we
are out of
that
our pleasure
to talk to us
am
made no
life
which
am
old-fashioned
my
wife -
Need I say
R. D. Laing
June 1977
CONVERSATIONS
WITH
ADAM AND NATASHA
London
March
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
what's
Adam
it's
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
1970
don't like
it
wrong
with
it?
boring
Daddy
Adam
I'll
Daddy
how?
Adam
I'll
get another
Adam
buy one
where ?
in Woolworths
Daddy
I'm glad
Daddy
Adam
Ceylon
April 1971
if
Adam
that's
and
killing
gun and a
stiff
trigger
Daddy
why?
Adam
Daddy
Adam
last
Daddy
Adam
time
was
alive
Daddy
Adam
was a
soldier.
killed a lot of
people
Daddy
really
Adam
did you
kill
lot of
people
last
time
daddy?
don't think so
Daddy
Adam
not recently ?
Daddy
no
Adam
kill
time ago?
may have
Daddy
Adam
you
no
oh
Daddy
Adam
India
but
can't
remember!
can't
December
remember
{incredulously)
1971
After a storm
Adam
moon?
could answer)
it's
London
it's
a storm,
February 1923
I'm
sitting in
my
armchair reading
make
in, stifling
move
her
the tips of
arms away, and when I tentatively touch
she snatches
consolation,
of
fingers by way of some gesture
shneks, or
into
turn
to
threaten
them away, and her howls
time to
I have just
continue
howls
her
As
even sckreechs.
hug her,
to
matter,
the
check my impulses to ask her what's
is lowe:
she
as
before
comfort,
stroke her, or offer words of
February 1973
Before dinner
Natasha
Does
it
Adam
is
did
He denies
I
need a
take his
stitch?
with his
it
it.
Is
it
bleeding?
rifle,
she says.
rifle
At dinner
He
is
going
to
me when am
I
asleep in bed.
going
and then
and
cut
to cut
my
his side
my head
nose
She
off
off
find
me'
After dinner
Adam
has found a
He comes
into
way
my room
'I'm
with his
going
can't find
to
it'
put
it
rifle
where
(sic)
to
He puts
little
it
away
later
he comes
Adam
Me
Adam
in with
You might
No. You
just
again to show
not believe
believe you.
I'll
it
just
It's
me
me
alright
show you
He goes
Adam
Me
Adam
Attention.
Order
hours
Adam and
about
at
bedtime.
Quick march
It is
me
tin of
felt
and nibs
Ah Now he 's
!
over the
floor
Arrggh
February 1973
The Grand Old Man bends a long way down,
out of politeness {so that his eyes are level with
Natasha's),
Do you
Natasha
being you?
being me. I'm a very nice girl, and a
very intelligent girl, and everyone likes me.
yes
Even
like
like
mummv
mummy
lilr=><? m*
likes
me.
February 1973
Natasha
like
Mummy
to
be your
mummy?
March
Adam
Me
Adam
Me
love
Adam
1973
now
you
if
mind
(with glee)
Why
some
hate
poems?
22 April 1973
Jutta,
Adam and
tomorrow
Natasha are
off to Stuttgart
Bedtime
Daddy
Natasha
Jutta
and
I'll
be sad tomorrow
become
interested in
Just
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
yes
Ronnie
who? what?
Natasha
many people
one heart loves many?
the one heart loves many many
thudding)
Ronnie
Natasha
July 1973
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
like
it if
come on daddy
your turn
- as large as
in a large tub
this
room -
of
treacle
Adam
Daddy
Adam
and
and
and
you
like
it if I
be then
there (patting
weeny
(split
me
like
there) in
cut
it if I
bits (illustrating
forefinger)
Adam
it if I
would you
Daddy
like
and
cut these
little
bits into
little
bits
second's hesitation)
(before
can get
my
breath)
be then?
Daddy
(he's got
Adam
(pressing
Daddy
don't
me
on the run)
home
know
his
advance) you
tell
me
Adam
November
1973
Evening
and
Jutta
gone
to a party alone.
am
sitting, writing, in
a bad mood.
starts to
Daddy
and
spirals
it
Natasha
Daddy
(testily)
I
You
can't
make
sword out
of sellotape
my
theory
that
this is
and
mummy
this is
piece
daddy piece
you
Natasha
This
Daddy
is
for both of
She takes four pieces of paper and the sellotape goes away and comes back in a few
minutes
:
Natasha
one's for
room)
you (giving
mummy
(taking
it
it
to
me), and
this
Later the
same evening
aeroplanes
Natasha
I
Natasha
am
is sitting
sitting at
my
reflectively
in*
desk nearby
my
armchair
December
Adam
is
Natasha
1973
is
box and
to strike matches.
Natasha
blowing them
and musing, disconsolately)
(striking matches,
Striking
is
out,
Then, brightening up
but
December
Adam
1973
Mummy
even see
can't
why
a flea
can't
let
when
is
so
wee
even see
alone where
I'll
be
die
(talking to myself)
Where
know
Natasha
shall
be when
I.
die? (pause)
should
December
don't
know
better)
that
1973
all
Natasha
nor do
Jutta
can't breathe
*that is,
10
on her plate
Jutta
Natasha
I'm holding
if
you go on
Jutta
Natasha
Jutta
put
want
it
it
like that
my breath
on
out
want
on
Natasha
Jutta
Natasha
a million hurts
it
tell
you a
million times
me
1973
Natasha
is
standing lighting
my
pipe
Me
Natasha
my
fall
my
my
legs as
'm frightened
am
some
on her
leg
when
I'm
January 1974
Daddy
Adam
Natasha
January 1974
Me
Adam
don't do that
I
will
if
you won't
let
me
January 1974
Kira
Adam
Me
Adam
is
following
me
following her?
follow her
11
me
1974
Natasha and
Adam
(to Jutta)
to
me
Jutta thinks is
gave
for them.
good
them.
for
love
come
smarties
Daddy
(somewhat
Natasha
yes
that's
hurt) is that
why
why you
love daddy?
love you
Daddy
Natasha
and
Daddy
I've got
Natasha
for
Adam?
some
for
him too
after
bring
me
smarties
January 1974
Afternoon
Natasha
hatchet
is hitting
made by Adam
this
wooden
afternoon
Ok
Natasha
Daddy
Ok
Daddy
12
just as
slammed
it
right
on
my
it
on her, she's
back at me
face, flinging
Now
you've locked
it
Evening
It's
floor in the
it
Natasha
Me
Natasha
to
hope
gather
it
I'm winding up
January 1974
Adam
Daddy
all.
Adam
Daddy
er,
this.
upright,
to-
my
mantelpiece
Daddy
You can do
Adam
what's that?
Daddy
it's
13
that with
man being
them
crucified
have
it
on
Adam
Daddy
what's 'crucified'?
they used to
make a
trunks, stick
it
on
it
like that
in the
till
ground and
nail
someone
they died
Adam
why
Daddy
to
Adam
Thursday
23 January 1974
Natasha
very
difficult
things
in gaol
that
now
or treat them
can easily do
by
practising
February 1974
Daddy
out of
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
that's
my
like
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
and what
Natasha
your throat
is
my
fingers like?
throat like?
that's
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
22
Old
gentleman
Natasha
March
1974
Winter 1974
Daddy
Natasha.
Natasha
can
Daddy
Daddy
Natasha
alright
Natasha
have
come
to
go away
for a
little
daddy
{reflective silence)
but daddy?
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
yes Natasha
yes
love
15
me
while
with you?
let
if
you
Natasha
April 1974
here
is
you
it's
for both of
it's
a ball of wire
would
made
it
it
in the
like to give
into a ball
it's
I'll
Me
fix
it it
Natasha
an accident
alright
put
it
my
here on
desk
for both of
it
to
you
it
each other
like
30 April 1974
Natasha
Natasha
is
herself) fast
(to
this is
this is
this is
this is
this is
this is
my foot
my nose
my eyes
my neck
my head
my wrist
pause
faster
my face is my tummy
my tummy's my eyes
my eyes are my tongue
my tongue is my ankles
my ankles are my hands
pause
cross your hands
cross your legs
cross your eyes
cross your nose
gurgles of amusement
11
June 1974
my
Natasha
study
Daddy
room
Oh
Natasha
No.
Daddy
How
She looks
17
at
me
as though
don't
know an/thing
July 1974
Natasha
don't
need a night
light
anymore daddy
don't
Daddy
a night light's
still
No. But
to
nice though
be
have one
anymore
afraid to
11 July 1974
Natasha
Jutta
yes
Natasha
Jutta
yes
Natasha
I still
shall
Jutta
Natasha
I'll
life ?
you (pause)
be your mummy?
like
I
Natasha
be your
a rest for a
Jutta
alright
Natasha
alright
mummy
little
while, alright?
Was
you Natasha
Jutta
yes. Thank
Natasha
that's alright.
You
Jutta
yes
18
mummy
that nice ?
little
less sad
now?
anymore
off.
15 July 1974
August 1974
Ever since Natasha has been putting her shoes on herself (for
more than a year now), she has almost always put them on the
'wrong'
It
feet.
year ago, for two or three months, she always put them on
wrong feet, and refused to change them. This used to
the
bother
out,
if
she didn't.
In the last
the
'Is it
Occasionally
Last
week
is
it
is,
the
into
my room
right'
but usually
first
it
isn't
week ever,
that they
have been
every time.
August 1974
Bedtime. Tuck
Adam
in
in.
'right'
Adam
September 1974
20 October 1974
all
has
to
be precisely symmetrical.
two weeks
it
always had
to
be a double
knot.
But now,
you needn't do
they don't
thai
make
do that,
anymore
27
October 1974
Charlie
Natasha
is
three
them. That's
Natasha
November
1974
1974
Natasha
22
forty
minutes take?
November
Adam
1974
Ronnie
Ronnie
what was
Natasha
(laughing)
Ronnie
if
it?
don't
know
is
Natasha
Ronnie
Ronnie
no
Ronnie
then
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
one thing
do know
Ronnie
can't
can't
Natasha
Natasha
the
is
Natasha
can't
Oh
lady's finger
really ?
and
is
Ronnie
Natasha
I'm going to
I'll
tell
Adam
than that?
something
off
shortly)
I
forgot one
me
Ronnie
don't
Natasha
landing on her
Ronnie
Natasha
do you remember
Ronnie
Natasha
yes
Ronnie
yes
tell
tits
do you
Natasha
say
Ronnie
it
still
remember
want
come on Daddy
25
it?
then
really don't
ones
Natasha
it
it?
to.
I'm sorry
told
you these
Ronnie
she had us
Natasha
was there
all in fits
mantelpiece
her
tits
her
tits
her
tits
(peals of laughter)
She runs
off
made up
I've
in a
few seconds
a few
Ronnie
Oh
Natasha
Ronnie
really? what?
it
from
someone
Natasha
no
Ronnie
I'd
Natasha
didn't.
made
that
one up
heard it before
No you haven't
I made that one up myself
And
off
December
1974
After midnight
Natasha
When
Daddy
(testily)
Natasha
Daddy
(gruffly)
bed
you go to bed
bed whenever you like
know you're up. I just want to
you can go
as long as
don't
bed daddy?
Why?
till
to
work I don't want to hear you or see you anymore tonight, alright?
Natasha
alright you'll
Daddy
Natasha
that's the
have
only
way
to
I
carry
me
out
you'll get
me
it
out of the
room
Daddy
Natasha
No
and
you'll
have
to
carry
Daddy
all
the
This
Daddy
me
is
way
to
my
in
is
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
I know. The last time was the very very last time
and this is the very very very last time
(snuggling in) say your prayers
(kissing her) I mean it this time. Goodnight
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
(as
Daddy
yes
will.
is
And you
Natasha
goodnight Daddy
Daddy
goodnight Natasha
11
December
1974
He slumps
my room and
ushers
whimpering
Me
Charlie
Me
Why?
Charlie
Me
Charlie
Natasha
gave
it
it
to the cat
Me
Natasha
Yes.
gave
Charlie ran
Me
it
off,
looking
it
more scared
than ever
Me
how ?
when he
Natasha
it's
Me
well?
Natasha
Natasha
Me
really
Natasha
Me
Me
Natasha
Me
Natasha
Me
said there
were baddies
in
Natasha
Me
Me
Natasha
Natasha
it
a Chinese puzzle
kill
people
there are
December
17
1974
Dinner
A
Natasha
Lady
Natasha
lady
is
yattering on and on
No
28
December
1974
to
Devon
Adam and
Jutta
Natasha
Jutta
well run
Jutta
if
to
of
Natasha
Natasha
away
away then
how can I run away when
lam?
January 1975
Natasha
Monday
16
Natasha
February 1975
die
don't
know where
Natasha
Ronnie
Jutta
it's
Ronnie
what
Jutta
crushing
is ?
Natasha
left
the
one
in a
little
is
Jutta)
Jutta
Ronnie
Natasha
Oh
3 April 1975
Adam
Daddy
what
Adam
this
Natasha
until
22
is
is it?
they put
May
it
here
1975
bless
mummy and
Adam and
Natasha and
God
God
30
bless everything.
daddy and
Good-bye
Devon
May
1975
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
but you
Natasha
Natasha
us,
for us to
Ronnie
yes
Natasha
No we
chuckle)
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
quizzically)
(pause)
know (pause)
Ronnie
Natasha
don't
is
saying
I
this)
can't look at
daddy
Ronnie
alright Natasha
32
us.
I '11
I'll
go now
We
up a spray of flowers
Jutta.' Now, after the
foregoing conversation, she sits on the bed, in
silence, contemplating me on the floor, surrounded with sheaves of paper reading what I
have been writing, scoring out, tearing up,
cutting and piecing together, arranging and re-
had
earlier brought
arranging.
Natasha
Ronnie
know
Natasha
Ronnie
lot of
it. I
writing
book*
sure hope so
Natasha
it
(kisses)
now
Ronnie
Natasha
goodnight
night
if
you want
to
Ronnie
goodnight Natasha
Natasha
goodnight Ronnie
Sunday
25
May
1975
jump on you?
Natasha
can
David
yes
Natasha
David
yes
Natasha
I'm five
quarters
turned out
to
at the
end
of
what
Tuesday
Natasha
15 July 1975
Tony says
he
Me
is
Natasha
don't
know
and a tape
She wants
rule.
is.
She
is
me
to tell
seven
of
her
my
how many
of
my
hands long.
July 1975
Natasha explains
Adam
to
you
Sunday
can't
marry
me
27 July 1975
Natasha persuaded
Jutta
small screwdriver.
It
is
recently to
buy her a
nicely proportioned
Natasha
do you
Ronnie
yes
Natasha
do you
Ronnie
yes.
Natasha
it's
like
do.
It's
my
screwdriver?
very sweet
It's
think
Isn't it? Is
it
house ?
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
it
34
it.
you keep
will
we
alright,
take
it
for
can put
me?
it
on
whenever you
it
my
like
alright
She
left
taking
has kept
with
it
it
it
went
to
bed
it.
my little screwdriver.
my little screwdriver.
Thank you
like
it.
It's
for giving
the smallest
one
in the
whole house
29 July 1975
Early evening
and
Jutta
and a pair
for
me.
will
will
it
just
now
well,
later ?
maybe
Daddy?
onnie
alright Natasha
atasha
And
35
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Jutta
Natasha
4 August 1975
Natasha wants
me
wood and
stick of
Ronnie
am
to
make her
my arm?
why
not?
this is
bow
with a
it
allowed a piece of
than
a length of string.
wood
that's
longer
isn't it?
ami?
Natasha
but
Ronnie
what?
allowed it
I suppose
Natasha
Ronnie
as
She
if it's
longer than
my arm?
no rule against
know. So yes. You're allowed it
still
so. There's
it,
as far
looks unconvinced
August 1975
cradling
Jutta is
Natasha
(softly
Max
and sweetly
for Jutta to
to herself,
hear her)
Jutta
not yet.
36
will. Later.
Natasha
Jutta
yes
Natasha
Max
you
(reproachfully)
in
my bed ?
usuallly put
him
in
Adam's
bed
Jutta
Natasha
fair
Jutta without a
Natasha
to
Natasha
queen
think you're a
everyone wouldn't
I
Ronnie
queen
everyone wouldn't
you think he's a what?
I don't want to tell you
a queen?
Natasha
yes
Ronnie
Natasha
think you're a
Jutta
August 1975
(To
Adam and
voice which
Natasha
in a
quiet
commanding
brooked no nonsense)
your sheets
They
set about
Adam
you're
Natasha
Adam
Natasha
Adam
Natasha
it.
37
just
doing
it
to
Adam
The
Natasha
no.
Ronnie
ball
so the ball
is
getting smaller
may seem
to
you
to
be
getting smaller
she
Jutta
is
growing
at
such a rate
these days
Natasha
the ball
getting smaller
is
August 1975
Natasha
the
Adam
because he wanted
Devon
August 1975
It's
a sultry
Natasha
to
see time
is sitting
for
say
to
many
to herself
away
I'm going
I'm sad
fly*
a day
(pause)
I'm going
for
many
away
a
day
want
for
for
many
*A
patient of
to stay
away
asked
Why
Jutta
a day
mine once
ate
Jutta
39
Devon
August 1975
that
dark legend.
Someone
is
tugging
my
beard.
Daddy?
Natasha must have been standing there for some time
Tuesday
forgotten
August 1975
Natasha has
become
intrigued
by a
cubical box.
around looking
it
at
it
curiously, from
angles.
Now
to
she has cut out two of its sides, and has been showing
everyone around. She is fairly jumping with excitement.
Devon
August 197S
Natasha
I've
Daddy
let
Natasha
yes
tell
it
it,
me
feel
it.
yes
Daddy
why
Natasha
I've told
to
not?
going
to tell
Daddy
No?
Natasha
No. Because
about
it, it
it's
a secret and
told
if I
everyone
Daddy
would it?
no I suppose
Monday
it
wouldn't
September 1975
At breakfast
Adam
when I'm
when
Natasha
you but
than you
Adam
Natasha
Adam
Yes.
41
doubt
it
me
but
doubt
it
Monday
September 1975
Morning
Jutta
to the
some
butter please
Adam
Jutta
times do
to
Adam
is
have
Adam
doing
to
ask you
do something
Jutta
what?
would you go over to the house and bring
a bottle of milk and some butter please
Adam
No
Jutta
Ronnie
Ronnie
Jutta
what?
asked
I've
just
Ronnie
Jutta
Ronnie
Adam
Ronnie
Adam
Daddy
Adam
won't do
it
do what?
go and get milk and butter from the house
didn't you hear mummy ask you?
yes but I don't have to
she was asking you nicely, I'm telling you
you mean I can't refuse
you can refuse, but if you do I'll be very
unpleasant to you
to
to
Adam
in
what way?
Daddy
in
Adam
in
some way
what way?
Daddy
just
Adam
but in what
Daddy
He
do
it
way?
biscuits today
started calculating.
My
eyes narrowed.
My
tone changed
just
me
right
now
Adam
you mean
Daddy
yes
He went
42
I've got to
September 197S
In a
compartment on the
I've
cleaned
my
train
hands, can
touch
no
ho ho ho. Yes
no
Ronnie said no is yes
yes is no
ho ho ho
no means yes
and yes means no
Ronnie said yes
No
Natasha
alright
daddy
September 1975
Playing ball with Natasha
more throws
more
three
six
after three
three
more
more
well alright
after these three
more
one more
well this
is
one
one more
the very last one
well this
is
after the
very
last
one
one more
well this
43
is
one
Max?
very very
after the
Natasha
I'm running
And away
off
last
one
now
her
London
last
time
September 197S
Evening
Suddenly
as
lay
was
tired.
had
down
you
my
Natasha
will
Daddy
untie
want you
balloon?
my
Natasha
but
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
later, in
to untie
balloon
maybe
(silence)
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
at his
birthday party
Daddy
Oh I would
Natasha
Daddy
wasn't
Natasha
Natasha
my
birthday?
was puzzled.
think one's
44
said nothing
enough
was holding.
startled.
Oh sorry daddy
Oh I popped my
balloon
sorry
13
September 1975
Thursday
18
September 1975
how many?
many
four
many
capabilities
oh yes
and my second invention was a darikrex
a what?
a da - ikrex*
I have never heard of a darikrex
I
invented the
name
and what is it
it's a machine that shoots out
shoots what out?
of three tubes
45
Adam
Ronnie
really! ?
Adam
and
my
third invention
crushing snow.
It
will
cabin
Jutta
will
Adam
it
use
Tuesday
be cold?
be centrally heated,
it
will
to
avoid having to
electricity.
October 1975
Morning
Natasha
daddy
Daddy
yes Natasha
Natasha
I still
Daddy
Natasha
in
shoes
Evening
Natasha
Daddy
yes.
Natasha
how
fast
Daddy
Wednesday
does a car go
does
November
As we were
after
my arm go?
1975
sitting
Natasha
look
Ronnie
Oh
Natasha
do you
Ronnie
it's
46
like
alright
my
bottle
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
oh why?
so I'll have more than
Ronnie
how
interesting.
Adam
And what
else
is
after I've
had a
water over
my
bath.
pour more
hair
know
Ronnie
really
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
yes (clinching
Wednesday
12
didn't
November
that
it)
1975
Late afternoon
As
my
to
We
Matthew
kissed.
'That's
daddy.'
looking.
Daddy
Ronnie
Well?
are you the same daddy I kissed in the street?
{irritably) yes (pause) YES! Why?
are you the same daddy?
YES why? Do you think I may not be?
your hair is shorter
yes it's shorter
Natasha
it's
Ronnie
no
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
it
(pause)
I
had
feel a
47
it
me. I
There was a
pang
of panic) yes
It's
true.
man
here (the
in
pened) who
He
Natasha
my
just cut
No / see
shampoo
hair before
It
first
cuts hair.
on.
theory
Ronnie
Natasha
it
because
it
No.
that
yes. But
see.
you look
actually shorter
is
different
November
Wednesday
12
Adam
1975
to the
other
candle ?
know
Daddy
Adam
Tuesday
18
don't
November
1975
Evening
going away
Jutta
(teasing) I'm
Adam
and
if
you go away
November
do
because
you
that
I'll kill
love you
1975
Daddy
Oh
Natasha
Daddy
even
wish
Natasha.
We
can't
48
if I
weren't,
we
couldn't
to
mummy
Natasha
we 're
Daddy
yes
Natasha
Adam
Daddy
same
in the
family
but
Daddy
vagina
Jutta
it's
Daddy
yes
bedtime now
it's past your bedtime
Natasha
Daddy
quiet
Adam
daddy, and
20
am
sitting
Natasha
futta
is
November
like to
1975
announces 'Dinner
would
!'
and
Sorry Max.
didn't
in
my
arms.
Charge
And resumes her gallop, this time holding Max, as she says
,hese days 'knowingly' or 'rememberingly'.
49
Tuesday
25
November
1975
At dinner
Natasha
(to Jutta
Ronnie
did
Natasha
yes
no we were born
we come
at the
Ronnie
different
grannies
at different times,
different places,
December
1975
yes Margaret
is
than
me
how
think
I'm thirty-six
are you older than
Adam?
am, Natasha
I'm not the youngest in this house now. Even if
Max gets older he'll never get older than me.
I'll always be older than him won't I mummy?
of course
yes Natasha
is
yes Natasha
December
1975
Xmas
(exulting after two glasses of wine)
Come
to
don't
be
Heaven
silly, Heaven
dead
is
January 1976
I'm in the bath. Natasha
(pointing to
my
is
standing beside
it
right knee)
what's that?
that's a
what's
it's
birthmark
it
for?
just there.
My dad had
didn't want
it. I
it
one on
just got
knee
is
it
not
persuaded
his right
for?
just
got them
Natasha
but
Ronnie
and
Natasha
yes
Ronnie
Oh
that's
pondered over
Well,
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
is
information for a
this
little
want?
no
you wanted
to
be a
girlie
(indignantly) yes
nothing at
all
you
didn't
want?
all
long pause
Natasha
didn't want to
be
itchy
February 1976
As I'm
Chinese restaurant
to
Natasha
will
Ronnie
Oh
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
you give
yes. But
me
it's
know
but
if
know what
I know
a ghost
is
Ronnie
Natasha
it's
Ronnie
Oh
how do you
like?
52
comes down
if it
not
a ghost
that?
on television
Oh come on! most of what's on the
television is just what people make up seen
I've
it
it's
Oh
but
its
know
ankles
it
that
isn't
that's correct.
You
that,
or do you?
no
don't
but you
know
if it
don't
it?
know
lot of
things
know
know
don't think
know more
than you
know
Later,
coming out
the sky
I
of the restaurant
red
then
I
is
we
down here
53
down
yes
it
a real ghost
fly
on
it
to
Saturday
14
February 1976
Natasha and
Adam
Natasha
Jutta
Oh
Natasha
Natasha
Natasha
Sunday
14
March
1976
Natasha
(to Jutta)
Jutta
Natasha
Natasha
Ronnie
what lies?
Natasha
Jutta
don't
lie
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
would give
Natasha
me
you cheat
Daddy
why?
Natasha
Daddy
get
Natasha
yes
Daddy
if
Natasha
yes
We
Tuesday
of
Max
till
mummy
comes back
April 1976
Last night
Natasha
Daddy
no
Natasha
Daddy
Daddy
Natasha
a real ghost
Devon
9 April 1976
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
think
I'll
go downstairs
in
Evening
we going home ?
Natasha
when
Daddy
Natasha
when
Daddy
it's
Natasha
two sleeps
55
are
is
tomorrow
that?
tonight
and
Daddy
it '8
tonight
Natasha
it's
two sleeps
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
right
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
yes
Daddy
the
name
Natasha
Oh
Saturday
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
tomorrow
of
is
of
tomorrow?
Saturday
of the
April 1976
Natasha
why
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
don't
know
because
a what?
it
Natasha
a repelling pencil
Daddy
I've
Natasha
never heard
know you
of a repelling pencil
haven't
Later
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
it
it
the
way
same
to
as the others
double your
money ?
fold
it
why do
birds
south?
fly
It
of the
day
Saturday
that
comes
after
Monday
and the day after
Tuesday
and after that?
that?
Wednesday
and
after that?
(thinks)
and
after that?
Saturday
is
this?
Monday
no
it
Saturday's tomorrow
Friday.
It's
Friday
Later
it's
going
to
that's right,
57
be my birthday soon
only fourteen days
Ronnie
what date ?
Jutta
the twenty-fourth
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
can't wait
till
it's
my
birthday
my
presents
more presents
than
Adam
aren't I?
Ronnie
not necessarily.
Adam
don't
Natasha
but
on
Ronnie
my
birthday
all
the presents
and
Adam
but Omilie
mother)
(Jutta' s
present
Jutta
that's right.
to
everyone
Ronnie
well you'll
still
get
more
than
Adam
on your
birthday
Saturday
Natasha
machine
for
her birthday
10 April 1976
Jutta
than Jutta
Me
Natasha
uhuh
Jutta
you
Me
Natasha
Me
growing
Me
to
lot of
do yet
know
(pause)
Natasha
Daddy? How
Me
forty-eight
(pause)
Natasha
when
Me
will
stop growing?
don't
time around
eighteen
how
Natasha
is that
Me
thirty-six
Natasha
eighteen and
same word
Me
forty-eight
sound the
word when
you're
forty-eight
(pause)
Natasha
there 's a
than
Me
Oh
we
man who
said
Adam and
are younger
are
really.
How
are?
know
what he said
Natasha
Me
Natasha
no I did not
what was he like ?
his fingers cracked when he moved them
Me
Natasha
don't
that's just
fast
like this
Me
Natasha
Me
Natasha
Daddy
at
Adam
Daddy
you said
Adam
Daddy
just
joking
didn't
Adam
it,
it's
a sin
Daddy
Adam
that
never said
Adam
Daddy
just
way
his
was
out of anything
just
joking
is
a sin
Adam
Daddy
May
like that
1976
Natasha
Wednesday
12
May
1976
Last night
Adam
Daddy
Adam
some
Daddy
Oh
Adam
Daddy
Oh
61
we need
parts
well
Adam
Frank knows
all
birds
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
what's he like?
he sometimes gets angry
Oh does he? what happens then?
Thursday
13
May
1976
Natasha
daddy?
Daddy
yes Natasha
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
when do
Daddy
there
Natasha
do they
Daddy
The News?
sometimes they do and sometimes they
is
they
tell
the truth?
no way of knowing
tell
the truth
when
that for
Daddy
yep
62
sure
it's
don't
Natasha
tell
the
Saturday
IS
May
1976
Natasha
daddy?
Daddy
uh uh?
when's your birthday?
my birthday's in October
is it tomorrow?
Oh no, October is a lot of
tomorrows away (pause)
why do you think it's tomorrow?
because you've been waiting so long
but you wait just as long
no I don't
everyone waits the same number of sleeps,
or days between birthdays (pause)
Do you think some people wait longer
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
than others?
Natasha
yes
May
Max
Daddy
1976
is
Natasha
There
Daddy
Will
is
out.
want
to
work
for half an
hour
no reply
is
Natasha
No
Daddy
crying. Jutta
reply
Natasha,
if
for half
an hour
Natasha
alright
Natasha
how many
Daddy
ten minutes
Natasha
Daddy
no
63
it
isn't
minutes
is
now?
more
I'll
Daddy
pussycat
Mummy
Natasha
something
what?
Mummy
some germs
Natasha
you've
just
bad
that are
Daddy
how?
the soup's
Daddy
Natasha
you
no it
Daddy
mummy's soup
for us
the soup's
hasn't
Natasha
yes
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
it
He may have
made me unhungry
Natasha
isn't,
off.
tastes different to
changed
changed
has
the cat
made
a difference to
to the
soup
Natasha
well
how does
that
make
the
soup
taste
different?
June 1976
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
if
their birthday
on the
Daddy
No one
Natasha
Oh
She
65
still
hasn't 'got'
it
Adam
is
June 1976
new
ringing our
front
door
bell,
fun.
Stop
that.
know
Wednesday
it
isn't
you
June 1976
Slowly
Jutta
Natasha
Natasha
Sunday
Jutta
Natasha
Jutta
Natasha
Jutta
Natasha
Jutta
Ronnie
Natasha
Natasha
yes
Ronnie
Natasha
Presto e poco a poco accel. a prestissimo
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Sunday Saturday
you missed out Thursday and you reversed
Saturday and Sunday
Natasha doubles up
on the
back
Ronnie
falls off
her chair
over
Natasha
rolls
67
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Daddy
that tickles
Natasha
you, doesn't
it?
it
tickles the
Sunday
27 June 1976
Natasha
reading in silence
is
Natasha
Jutta
no, Natasha
me read?
June 1976
Natasha
Mummy
Sunday
28 June 1976
who
the
Monty
Natasha
the
of
shop?
don't
know
shopkeeper
Monty
there
is
saying. She
is
will tell
and
Monty
without
God
masturbate?'
Ronnie
that is
asking 'Does
it
mummy
there you go
I
Oh
69
not at
all
direct
it
Wednesday
30 Jane 1976
A
Adam
Daddy
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
was
this
one?
man see
Adam
well there
Daddy
yes
Adam
now
this
father
me
a brain!' so his
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Oh
father
or not
think
70
it's
funny
well then
Thursday
8 July 1976
One
Adam
David
of
Adam's
be kissed by
Monday
Adam
28 July 1976
my mummy and
other relatives
to
Natasha
(nonplussed) but
Adam
matches
Daddy
Natasha
can
lit
have a go ?
Natasha
Daddy
that's
Natasha
Daddy
Adam
Natasha
but
Daddy
well?
what
Adam
can
Daddy
them
Natasha
Oh
Daddy
well,
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
strikes
said
Natasha
she
it,
lights
it. It
try
all
can
another
I
don't want
used up
try another
ok
tries another.
It lit
also
August 1976
Natasha
and what
Ronnie
some words
is
'swearing'?
refer to
God and
trivially,
Divine things.
words,
Natasha
that's swearing
what does 'refer to' mean?
Ronnie
the
word
table
72
If
table refers to
an actual
Natasha
oh yes (impatiently)
and what does 'trivial' mean
Ronnie
unimportant
Natasha
daddy ?
Ronnie
yes
Natasha
Ronnie
far
Natasha
Ronnie
king
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
hell
of
queen?
of
heaven?
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
far
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Ronnie
yes
Natasha
of
hell
August 1976
Natasha
to Paul,
Adam
Me
Adam
why
I
73
laugh
when you
don't
'cos
mummy
know
cliff?
Corfu*
September 1976
The wind
is
moving
the clouds
branches
Natasha
is
the
Nina
moon shaking
younger than
is
Nina
Adam
Adam and
spells
very well
me
September 1976
Natasha
what's the
Arthur
Natasha
your
Natasha
Arthur
don't
first
thing
you put
in a
garden?
know
foot
my bed
tonight
Natasha
Kira
so
Nina
so
Arthur
Natasha
why
am
am I
can't
why
Natasha
Ronnie
Natasha
Nina
Kira
want
want
want
to
sleep?
ear
daddy's penis
to sleep inside
September 1976
Natasha
is
holding up a
Everyone
Natasha
its
little
wheel
invisible car?
seats,
- invisible]
September 1976
Fish for lunch
Adam
Ronnie
Adam
yes
Ronnie
not
if
If
I
she were
would die
her body.
might,
to
if
might eat
might
Arthur
Ronnie
Adam
Jutta
Ronnie
Arthur
75
eating
now?
them
have another
child.
Ronnie
it's
my
own
one's
fish
we
eat
we
And
should
child
could be
grannie
Janette
Ronnie
my
the smell?
fish and
was happy just swimming around as she had
always dreamed of when she was caught and
now we're
Adam
eating her
No
Ronnie
(interrupting)
Jutta
this
Arthur
conversation
made
just
is
putting
it
it
up
me
off
seems
to
my
food
have taken
this
way
10
Adam
September 1976
Adam
Corfu
September 1976
Ronnie
Adam
Do you
the clouds?
76
is
10
September 1976
few of Adam's questions today,
his ninth
birthday
How
Why
Why
hand-grenade regulated ?
mercury?
the timing of a
is
Does lead
sink in
the air?
and,
Why
Saturday
11
September 1976
it.
and
Arthur
look
at
me when you
Adam
and
Jutta
eat with
Adam
eat with
my mouth empty
Ronnie
Adam
he got you
ho ho ho
Ronnie
anyway
Adam
this
time
mean, Daddy
Natasha
Ronnie,
Daddy
yes Natasha
my
Natasha
Daddy
year
77
till
till
birthday?
Natasha
me
tells
that she's
September 1976
over a toy
In a dispute
Natasha
Adam
he gave
he gave
/ gave it
it
to
me
it
to
you and
me
to
September 1976
The stars are out. We're all off
on the beach. Arthur leading the
After dinner.
make
fire
to
way.
Natasha
Daddy
Daddy
Yes, Natasha
And
you give
? Will
hoist
long shall
her up on
still
my
be able
my
me
a carry?
shoulders. For
to
do
how
that?
Natasha
Daddy
alright
Natasha
toes
Natasha
Ah Now
!
allowed
to crackle
who
is
her toes
Night
we
Daddy
how
Adam
Daddy
Adam
a dead
Daddy
a dead
Adam
yes.
78
did
all this
come about?
it?'?
man
man? how do you mean?
A dead human being
!
Tuesday
September 1976
14
At breakfast
Daddy
Adam
A ghost?
a ghost, a
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
spirit
spirit
down
in us while
we
are
alive?
yes
spirit
spirit
made
made
all this?
all this
the stars?
spirit.
But
Do you
yes
God made
God exists Arthur?
God exists
don't think
it.
think
think
exists,
he must be
always, forever
and anyway
Arthur)
we
didn't
began
to
into people.
And
made
things,
Wednesday
15
we have
and telephones
aeroplanes and
- they developed
things like
how we
find out
by science
September 1976
During supper
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
come
on,
swearing.
ing?
Adam
come on
yourself.
Why do
you want
to
hear
me
swear-
Arthur looked quite relieved. Adam was livid. I've never seen
him so enraged. He was hopping mad. He threw himself on
the sand, and squirmed and twitched around like an eel with
frustration.
He blamed
Arthur
Don't blame
Adam
No
Jutta
Adam
Daddy
me
was way
It
off
wasn't
it
Jutta
on Arthur,
all
it
Adam
it
wasn't
Daddy
It
was
Arthur
Adam
Your
mummy
Adam
Daddy
It
was too
Adam
Daddy
Arthur
Jutta
saw
it
Adam
far
looked
us
at
all
It
Adam
You're
Arthur
Look.
We're
Adam
Arthur
It
all
all
Daddy
should
still
far for
you Adam.
me, and
it
was
definitely
said nothing
Look. You
still
can't
82
lie to
you
or me, even
Adam
we
friends
said nothing
was too
He
lying
Why
swim
Daddy
Jutta
that's right
Adam
she's lying
Jutta
No
I'm not.
You won't
anyone
listen to
that's
your trouble
Adam
Jutta
Daddy
Do you
it.
You had
better watch
it
everyone else
Adam
We
all
was
Daddy
Adam
said nothing
Anyway.
Yes it is
And
it
round
though he was
not a defeat
It's
started
all
of the
up again. After
was an
it
Adam
a what?
the third
full
Adam, who
silent
in
no way abated
optical illusion
Jutta
an optical
Adam
An
illusion
optical illusion ?
!
What
is
an
'optical illusion'?
Jutta
something
Adam
you mean
Daddy
reservations
Adam
reservations ?
!
It
went on and on
83
my
from what
it
is
eyes ?
that.
Not without
Tuesday
October 1976
Evening
Adam
Me
Adam
Me
Adam
Me
Adam
Me
Adam
Jutta
Me
can
yes.
why
not?
Adam
daddy?
Daddy
yes
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
84
October 1976
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
this
they've printed
it
book?*
very well (turning the pages)
the paper. Look, there's
much on
there's not
There's the
the silliest
littlest
book
ever seen.
ever seen
I've
I've
think this
is
28 October 1976
Adam
daddy?
Daddy
yes
Adam
when's my birthday?
don't you know your birthday by now?
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
Daddy
Adam
yet?
Adam
Oh my God
Daddy
Jutta
Adam
Oh
Daddy
don't you
daddy
(petulantly)
know
anyway I'm
in
Adam
I'm in a hurry
Daddy
you'll
Adam
Daddy
Adam
that yet?
no hurry
for
my
next birthday
be
Your next birthday
I know. I can't wait
don't want to
you'll
be ten
Daddy
of
every day
in
your
life
Adam
Every minute
you'll never have a second over again
would you like to be young again?
would you like to be nine again?
would you like to be eighteen again?
come on answer, would you like to be
twenty-eight again?
Daddy
Adam
would
like
my
life
over again?
November
1976
daddy,
you teach
will
me
a Christmas carol, in a
smart key
Thursday
30
December
1976
Night
Natasha
Natasha
Daddy
no
Natasha
Daddy
no
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
it was just
was looking at my watch
and it was just twenty past seven so I thought I
would just sit down and wait for the doorbell to
Daddy
the bell
well
when
ring
Natasha
Daddy
A hug
January 1977
Evening
Natasha
in
my
study
(pause) (reluctantly)
afternoon (she
Daddy
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
is
did
it
87
it
Daddy
when
gum
Natasha
Daddy
Natasha
Jutta,
so
saw the
New
Year
in together,
'Keep
that cork,
want
to
study
it'
February 1977
Natasha has been playing a Haydn Air and a melody, on the
piano.
88
28 February 1977
It's
the
end
Western
They draw
The badman begins to fall
His eyes turn up. He has a
last
final
time
glimpse of the
sun
Natasha
He
said 'Do
He
dies
March
1977
Jutta
Adam
No
Later
Jutta
couldn't believe
89
my
ears
at
he also
later taught.
at
He served
as a psychiatrist
in
where
army
the British
Glasgow Royal Mental Hospital, before joinHe was later appointed director of the
Langham Clinic in London From 1961 to 1967, he undertook
research into families, and he is now in private practice as a
and a physician
at
the
psychoanalyst.
Since
1964,
Dr.
setting
Vol.
1:
The Families of Schizophrenics (with Aaron Esterson), Interpersonal Perception: A Theory and a Method of Research (with H Phillipson and A. R. Lee), The Politics of Experience. The Politics of the
Family, Knots, The Facts of Life. Do You Love Me?. Sonnets, and The
Voice of Experience.
The
Politics of Experience
In this
ness
built into
our society.
it
will
remain unaffected."
arguing
at
the
same time
experience.
"Here
or
is
challenging reading
works
in,
Library Journal
Pantheon 0-394-71476-8
Sonnets
This collection of sonnets covers the emotional spectrum from hate
to love,
illusions,
and
many
Booklist
Pantheon 0-394-73929-9
tangles
Knots
This series of dialogue-scenarios can be read as
poems
or brief
human
relationships.
to
understanding. In
experience."
to
The
Laing concludes
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when
"Laing's
it
Politics of the
that the
works and
hell
Family
when
just
it
family, is
marvel-
dpesn't.
it
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touched."
Laing and
D G Cooper
my
thought."
and thoughts.
"A real contribution to the literature of
suggestive, inconclusive, and
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"
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Pantheon 0-394-71474-1
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R. D. Laing:
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Integrating Freudian
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0-394-71479-2
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D.
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instructive
is
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A long
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how
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how
"Unembellished and printed without explanatory or connective text, they include loving ex-
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of Oedipal
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Pantheon Books,
New York