Flake v. Arpaio 2016-07-14 ARPAIO DEPOSITION

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1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2 FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
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4 Austin Flake and Logan Flake, ) No. 15-CV-01132-PHX-NVW
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Plaintiffs, )
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v. )
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Joseph Michael Arpaio, et al.,)
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9 Defendants. )
______________________________)
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13 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF SHERIFF JOSEPH M. ARPAIO
14 Phoenix, Arizona
July 14, 2016
15 10:12 a.m.
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21 REPORTED BY:
DONNA DELAVINA, RPR DONNA DELAVINA REPORTING, LLC
22 Certified Reporter Arizona RRF No. R1010
Certificate No. 50468 365 East Coronado Road
23 Suite 210
PREPARED FOR: Phoenix, Arizona 85004
24 P (602) 230-5454
F (602) 230-8444
25 (COPY) donnadelavina@live.com
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1 INDEX TO EXAMINATIONS
2 WITNESS PAGE
3 SHERIFF JOSEPH M. ARPAIO
4 Examination by Mr. Montoya 8
5
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7
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9 INDEX TO EXHIBITS
10 No. DESCRIPTION MARKED
11 1 Transcript of Arpaio Press Conference 118
(7 pages)
12
2 Defendants' Rule 26(a)(1)(A) Initial 150
13 Disclosures (4 pages)
14 3 Response to Plaintiffs' First Set of 151
Requests for Production of Documents
15 (3 pages)
16 4 First Supplemental Response to 151
Plaintiffs' First Set of Requests for
17 Production of Documents (4 pages)
18 5 Second Supplemental Response to 153
Plaintiffs' First Set of Requests
19 for Production of Documents
(2 pages)
20
6 Answer (17 pages) 158
21
7 Answer of Defendants Arpaio and 158
22 Maricopa County to Second Amended
Complaint (14 pages)
23
24 8 Maricopa County Sheriff's Office 161
News Release dated 7/9/2014
25 (2 pages) (MCSO_001079-1080)
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1 In accordance with Arizona Code of Judicial Administration
Section 7-206(J)(3)(b), Donna DeLaVina Reporting, LLC, through
2 this Certified Reporter, disclosed its rates for services
prior to the commencement of this deposition.
3
Pursuant to Rule 39(f)(2) of the Arizona Rules of Civil
4 Procedure, which states, "Upon payment of reasonable
charges therefor, the officer shall furnish a copy of the
5 deposition to any party or to the deponent," the "Prepared
for" attorney has received a copy of this proceeding.
6
I, the officer, will provide a certified copy to each
7 ordering party at the same copy rate, thus complying with
Section 7-206(J)(3)(a) of the Arizona Code of Judicial
8 Administration (ACJA) Court Reporter Standard
Certification (Effective September 15, 2014).
9
Each purchased copy of this transcript will be signed and
10 certified by myself, thus complying with ACJA
Section 7-206(F)(3).
11
A.R.S. 32-4003(B) provides, "A certified reporter shall
12 sign and certify each transcript that the certified
reporter prepares before the transcript may be used in
13 court, except for transcripts that the reporter prepares
for proceedings that occurred before July 1, 2000." Thus,
14 only an originally signed copy of my work product can be
used in any proceeding before the Court.
15
Any copies of this transcript (paper or electronic) made
16 for any other party who has not paid Donna DeLaVina
Reporting, (thus the reporter) for such copy of this
17 transcript, or received written permission for same, will
be considered theft of services, a violation of property
18 rights, and be considered restraint of trade with
appropriate penalties sought.
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2 (2 pages) (MCSO_001077-1078)
4 (2 pages) (MCSO_001075-1076)
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1 THE VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF SHERIFF JOSEPH M.
2 ARPAIO was taken on July 14, 2016, commencing at
3 10:12 a.m., at the Law Offices of MONTOYA, JIMENEZ,
4 LUCERO & PASTOR, P.A., 3200 North Central Avenue, Suite
5 2550, Phoenix, Arizona, before DONNA DELAVINA,
6 Certified Court Reporter No. 50468 for the State of
7 Arizona.
8 * * * * * *
9
10 APPEARANCES:
11
FOR PLAINTIFFS:
12
MONTOYA, JIMINEZ, LUCERO & PASTOR, P.A.
13 3200 North Central Avenue
Suite 2550
14 Phoenix, Arizona 85012
BY:STEPHEN MONTOYA
15 RICHARD TRUJILLO
16
17 FOR DEFENDANTS:
18 SACKS TIERNEY, P.A.
4250 North Drinkwater Boulevard
19 Fourth Floor
Scottsdale, Arizona 85251
20 BY:JEFFREY S. LEONARD
EVAN F. HILLER
21
22 ALSO PRESENT:
23 Jonathan Williams, Videographer
K-Video Productions
24 3241 East Shea Boulevard
Phoenix, Arizona 85028
25 (602) 787-0272
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Phoenix, Arizona
July 14, 2016
2 10:12 a.m.
3
4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:Good morning.My name
5 is Jonathan Williams, certified legal video specialist
6 with K-Video Productions.
7 Our court reporter is Donna DeLaVina,
8 representing Donna DeLaVina Reporting.
9 We are at 3200 North Central Avenue,
10 Phoenix, Arizona, to take the deposition of Sheriff
11 Joseph Arpaio on behalf of the plaintiff in the United
12 States District Court, District of Arizona, case of
13 Flake versus Arpaio, et al., Case Number CV
14 15-CV-01132-PHX-NVW.
15 The date is July 14th, 2016 and the time
16 is 10:12 a.m.
17 The attorneys will now introduce
18 themselves.Plaintiffs first, please.
19 MR. MONTOYA:Stephen Montoya, with
20 Richard Trujillo, on behalf of the plaintiffs.
21 That would be you, Jeff.
22 MR. LEONARD:Jeff Leonard and Evan Hiller
23 on the behalf of the defendants.
24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:Thank you.
25 Please swear in the witness.

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ALSO PRESENT: (Continued)

2 Austin Flake
3 Logan Flake
4 Jeannie Bowman, Risk Management
5 Kathleen Kolm, Risk Management
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SHERIFF JOSEPH M. ARPAIO,
2 called as a witness herein, having been first duly

3 sworn by the Certified Court Reporter to speak the
4 whole truth and nothing but the truth, was examined and
5 testified as follows:
6
7 EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. MONTOYA:
9 Q.Good morning, Sheriff.
10 A.Good morning.
11 Q.How are you?
12 A.Alive and doing good.
13 Q.That's a good thing.I'm glad you're doing
14 well.
15 My name is Steve Montoya.I'm a lawyer
16 here in Phoenix.I represent two residents of Maricopa
17 County, Logan Flake and Austin Flake, who have brought
18 several claims against the County and yourself and one
19 of your deputies, specifically Marie Trombi.
20 Do you understand that?
21 A.Yes.
22 Q.Please state your full name for the record,
23 Sheriff.
24 A.Joseph M. Arpaio, A-r-p-a-i-o.
25 Q.And you're the Maricopa County Sheriff?
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A.Yes.
Q.And, Sheriff, when were you elected to that
3 position?
4 A.I took office January 1, 1993.
5 Q.What was your position immediately before you
6 were elected sheriff of Maricopa County, sir?
7 A.Immediately, I was in private business.
8 Q.How long were you were you in private business?
9 A.Ten years.
10 Q.You had a law enforcement career before that,
11 I've read; is that correct?
12 A.Yes.
13 Q.And tell us about your law enforcement career
14 before your career as our sheriff, here in Maricopa
15 County, sir?
16 A.I joined the Army when the Korean War broke
17 out, three years.And then became a Washington, D.C.
18 police officer.And then a Las Vegas, Nevada police
19 officer.And then 27 years with the U.S. Drug
20 Enforcement Administration, Department of Justice.
21 Q.In reference to your military service, Sheriff
22 Arpaio, did you fight in the Korean War?
23 A.No, I was in France.
24 Q.And you were honorably discharged, of course?
25 A.Yes.
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Q.Do you remember how many times?

A.No.
3 Q.Can you estimate how many times you've had your
4 deposition taken?
5 A.As the Sheriff?
6 Q.In any capacity, Sheriff Arpaio?
7 A.Well, as the Sheriff and probably the only job
8 I had where I was deposed, I would maybe guess 20
9 times.
10 Q.And you ran for sheriff, remind me in what
11 year?
12 A.1992.
13 Q.Was that the first time you had ran for
14 elective office?
15 A.Years before I -- when I retired, I recall I
16 ran for city council.
17 Q.In Phoenix?
18 A.Yes.
19 Q.Was that a citywide election or was it a
20 district election?
21 A.District.
22 Q.Which district was that, if you remember?
23 A.Well-24 Q.It was a long time ago.
25 A.-- let's just say it was the northeast section.
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Q.And did you retire from the federal -- the DEA,

the Drug Enforcement Agency?
3 A.Yes.
4 Q.After how many years?
5 A.Going on 27.
6 Q.And do they have ranks in the DEA?
7 A.Positions.
8 Q.What was your position when you started with
9 the DEA?
10 A.I was a federal agent in Chicago and then head
11 of the DEA in Turkey and the Middle East.And then
12 head of several DEA offices, regional director in
13 Mexico, South America.So a major portion of my career
14 was in management positions.
15 Q.Sheriff Arpaio, when you retired from the DEA,
16 what was your job title?
17 A.I was head of the DEA in Arizona.
18 Q.In what year did you retire from the DEA?
19 A.1982.
20 Q.And when did you start your career with the
21 DEA?
22 A.It was November 19th, '57.
23 Q.Sheriff, have you ever had your deposition
24 taken before?
25 A.Yes.
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Q.Did you win?

A.No.
3 Q.Okay.What inspired you to run for Sheriff of
4 Maricopa County, sir?
5 A.Well, I had had many requests since I retired
6 and decided to run for sheriff and utilize my -- all
7 those years in law enforcement.
8 Q.Have you ever heard of Arizona POST?
9 A.Yes.
10 Q.What is your understanding of Arizona POST?
11 A.Well, I believe they certify law enforcement
12 officers.
13 Q.Can you be a state, city or county law
14 enforcement in Arizona without being -- a law
15 enforcement officer in Arizona without being first
16 certified by Arizona POST?
17 A.I believe you have to be certified.
18 Q.Are you certified by Arizona POST?
19 A.No.
20 Q.Can you arrest people?
21 A.Yes.
22 Q.Even though you're not a certified law
23 enforcement officer?
24 A.I'm the elected chief law enforcement officer
25 for this county.
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Q.I understand.
Have you ever arrested anyone in your
3 capacity as Sheriff of Maricopa County?
4 A.I believe one time.
5 Q.Tell me about it.
6 A.In summary?
7 Q.Please.
8 A.I was assaulted and I arrested the person who
9 assaulted me.
10 Q.When was that, approximately?
11 A.It could have been 15 years ago.
12 Q.Were you hurt?
13 A.I was whacked in the throat, but, no, I wasn't
14 hurt.
15 Q.When you say "whacked," Sheriff, were you
16 punched or?
17 A.Yes, punched.
18 Q.And did you pull your firearm or how did you
19 effectuate, Sheriff Arpaio, the arrest?
20 A.I had other people there to assist me.
21 Q.Have you ever directed anyone be arrested in
22 your capacity as the Sheriff of our county, Maricopa
23 County?
24 A.No, not that I can recall.
25 Q.I understand.
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to make you feel more comfortable for your deposition,

please interrupt me and let me know.
3 If there's anything that you feel that you
4 need to say to make your testimony more complete or
5 accurate, Sheriff, please interrupt me at any time and
6 let me know.If there's any concern that you have at
7 any time, please interrupt me to let me know, okay?
8 A.Thank you.
9 Q.And, Sheriff, as you pointed out, I'm just a
10 lawyer trying to do my job.You know, if -- this is
11 not going to be acrimonious day, I don't imagine, okay?
12 A.That's okay.
13 Q.Now, Sheriff, I'm not a law enforcement
14 officer.I've never been one.I don't have any law
15 enforcement training.Please explain to me what your
16 general duties are as our sheriff?
17 A.My duties are to protect the public, run the
18 jails, do the law enforcement, and full-fledge law
19 enforcement agency.
20 Q.Of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office,
21 correct?
22 A.Yes.
23 Q.What jurisdiction -- and your jurisdiction -24 does your jurisdiction extend outside of Maricopa
25 County?
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I've noticed that you travel with

bodyguards; is that correct?
3 A.Travel where?
4 Q.Travel around Maricopa County, oftentimes, with
5 bodyguards.I notice this morning you brought two
6 bodyguards with you and they're more than welcome?
7 A.Deputy sheriffs, yes.
8 Q.Are they deputy sheriffs who serve as your
9 bodyguards?
10 A.Yes.
11 Q.And you decided to bring them here this
12 morning?
13 A.They are with me during the day at all times.
14 Q.Have you received threats that make you believe
15 that you need bodyguards with you during the day at all
16 times?
17 A.Numerous.
18 Q.I understand.
19 Has anyone ever tried to hurt you, other
20 than what you've already described in your capacity as
21 Maricopa County Sheriff?
22 A.They've tried many times, but they haven't
23 succeeded.
24 Q.Well, that's good.
25 Sheriff, if there's anything that I can do
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A.Not necessarily.
Q.Sheriff, I learned in the practice of law that,
3 for example, if you're a Phoenix police officer and you

4 see someone perpetrating a crime in Tucson, as a
5 Phoenix police officer, as a law enforcement officer,
6 you have the right to arrest that person?
7 A.You're correct.
8 Q.Do you have that right, as our elected sheriff
9 here in Maricopa County, can you arrest people outside
10 of Maricopa County?
11 A.I would imagine I can.
12 Q.Okay.You say you would "imagine" you can.
13 Are you guessing or do you know that?
14 A.That's a technical point.And I don't -- the
15 only reason I'm hesitating is because you brought up
16 POST certification, I get my authority from the
17 constitution and I would imagine that would translate
18 even though I'm not POST certified for the state that I
19 could do that.
20 Q.Are you familiar with Arizona POST training?
21 A.Not the nuts and bolts.
22 Q.Do you receive any law enforcement training as
23 our sheriff?
24 A.I'm not forced to.
25 Q.You're not forced to?
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A.No.If I want to read a manual, I can read the

manual.But it's not forced upon me to prepare for
3 tests or any of that.
4 Q.I understand.
5 And, Sheriff, I need to tell you this, I'm
6 a little hard of hearing and that causes me sometimes
7 to speak more loudly than most people do.
8 A.Yes.
9 Q.So if I speak a little loudly, I hope I'm not
10 offending you.
11 A.No.
12 Q.And if I sometimes lean forward, it's only
13 because I'm trying to hear you better, okay?
14 A.Yes.
15 Q.So are you in charge of law enforcement for the
16 county in Maricopa County?
17 A.I am the chief law enforcement officer.But
18 you do understand there are other municipalities that
19 have police departments, so in that respect, I can come
20 into the area, but I am not in charge of other law
21 enforcement agencies.
22 Q.Who's your boss, Sheriff Arpaio?Who's your
23 supervisor, if you have one?
24 A.I have 4,000,000 bosses.
25 Q.And that would be the voting populace of
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think on one of the videos I've seen of you, I've seen

it on your credenza?
3 A.Yes.
4 Q.Do you think it's -- what is your reaction to
5 the label "America's Toughest Sheriff"?
6 A.I didn't give myself that title.But I don't
7 believe there's anything wrong with it.
8 Q.No.And I wasn't suggesting there was anything
9 wrong with it.Are you proud of the title?
10 A.It doesn't make any difference what they call
11 me.
12 Q.Do you think it's a compliment or do you think
13 it's an insult?
14 A.Well, there could be worse words, titles.
15 Q.Sure.
16 A.So I'm not against that title.
17 Q.Do you think it's accurate?
18 A.It depends what "tough" is.
19 Q.And that's what I'm asking you.You keep a
20 copy on your credenza, so what does that mean to you,
21 to be called "America's Toughest Sheriff"?
22 A.It has nothing do with the title, it has to do
23 with some of the information within the book.So the
24 title doesn't -- it's not there because of the title.
25 Q.You know, I like to watch TV and sometimes I
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Maricopa County?
A.Yes.
3 Q.Do you have any other bosses, other than the
4 people of Maricopa County who are registered to vote?
5 A.No.
6 Q.Can the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors
7 tell you how to do your job?
8 A.Not really.
9 Q.Have they ever tried to tell you how to do your
10 job?
11 A.Not that I can recall.
12 Q.I understand.
13 Now, you get a lot of publicity, don't
14 you?
15 A.Yes.
16 Q.Some of it's very good, right?
17 A.It depends on the reader.
18 Q.I was reading on the Internet parts of a book
19 written about you and I think it's called "America's
20 Toughest Sheriff."
21 Are you familiar with that book?
22 A.That was 1996, I believe.
23 Q.So you are familiar with it?
24 A.Yes.
25 Q.Do you keep a copy on your desk?Because I
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like to watch the cable network Fox News.Do you ever

watch it?
3 A.I watch it sometimes.
4 Q.And I've seen you on there.You appear on Fox
5 News sometimes and other networks as well, correct?
6 A.4,000 other interviews around the world, so
7 it's not just Fox.
8 Q.Oh, I know, I know.I've seen -9 A.So a lot of other liberal type of interviews.
10 Q.No, that's true, Sheriff.But sometimes you're
11 introduced as America's Toughest Sheriff on news
12 broadcasts that you don't control; is that correct?
13 A.Yes.
14 Q.What's your reaction to being introduced on
15 national television as America's Toughest Sheriff?
16 A.My only reaction is it's better than being
17 called the meanest sheriff.So that title doesn't
18 affect me.But it's, to me, is a positive title,
19 compared to what slogans or names could be on.
20 Q.How do you interpret the adjective "tough" in
21 the context of America's Toughest Sheriff?
22 A.I think it means that I do my job, work hard
23 and do what I can for the people I serve.
24 Q.Would you prefer the title of America's Fairest
25 Sheriff?
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A.That would be a good title too.

Q.Do you think you're fair?
3 A.Yes.
4 Q.Do you work hard?
5 A.Yes.
6 Q.And I'm, obviously -- well, I'm kind of one of
7 your supervisors, because I am a resident of Maricopa
8 County.But what kind of hours do you put in as
9 sheriff, Sheriff Arpaio?
10 A.I would say 12 to 14 hours a day, maybe seven
11 days a week.
12 Q.How many years have you been working that hard?
13 A.I would say probably 74 years.
14 Q.And how old are you these days, Sheriff Arpaio?
15 A.Today, I am 84 years old.
16 Q.Is today your birthday?
17 A.No.But you said "these days."
18 Q.Okay.
19 A.I bring it up today.
20 Q.I understand.
21 A.Every day counts.
22 Q.I get it and I agree.
23 So, Sheriff, I take it that your testimony
24 is that you have been working 14-hour days since you
25 were 10 years old?
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A.And run the jails.

Q.I understand.
3 In order to enforce the law effectively,
4 you have to first understand the law, correct?
5 A.You have to -- that's why we have lawyers, we
6 take advice from lawyers.
7 Q.Well, answer this question, if you would, I
8 think it's a simple one, Sheriff.In order to enforce
9 the law, you must first understand the law, correct?
10 A.Many times you need advice to enforce that law.
11 Q.Do you seek advice from lawyers before you
12 enforce a law to make sure that you got it right?
13 A.I don't.As I said, I'm the manager per se, I
14 delegate and it's my employees that deal with the
15 attorneys.
16 Q.Okay.Do you read laws?Do you read the laws
17 that you and your subordinates are paid to enforce?
18 A.Do I read -- I may read a decision once in a
19 while, but I don't legal books and so on.
20 Q.And do you read statutes?
21 A.On occasion.
22 Q.How often do you read statutes?
23 A.It may depend what the subject matter is.
24 Q.What statutes do you enforce, Sheriff Arpaio?
25 A.Well, we enforce -- the legislature passes the
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A.I thought the question was hard, but I was

referring more in my law enforcement career.
3 Q.Okay.But your law enforcement career hasn't
4 been 74 years, has it?
5 A.No.
6 Q.Okay.So you work really hard?
7 A.Yes.
8 Q.Do you study the law?
9 A.Do I study the law?
10 Q.Yes.
11 A.I have lawyers to advise me.
12 Q.Who are the lawyers that you refer to who
13 advise you regarding the law?
14 A.Well, I have an in-house person that happens to
15 be a lawyer.And then we have the County Attorney and
16 then we have other lawyers for certain circumstances.
17 Q.For the last five years, who's the lawyer that
18 you have relied on most for legal advice?
19 A.That would be -- I would say that my office -20 you do know I delegate, so I don't get involved in
21 cases per se.So it's usually the County Attorney that
22 advises our employees.
23 Q.Do you ever consult -- your -- the job of the
24 Maricopa County Sheriff's Office is to enforce the law
25 primarily in Maricopa County, right?
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laws and that gives us the jurisdiction.

Q.Who's in charge at the Maricopa County
3 Sheriff's Office for making sure that your sheriff
4 deputies know the laws that they're obliged to enforce
5 here in our county?
6 A.Well, we have many training sessions for our
7 employees.We have a new training academy, which I'm
8 proud of, and we utilize those facilities for training
9 quite frequently, different types of subject matters to
10 our employees.
11 Q.How do you -- laws are constantly changing,
12 aren't they?
13 A.Yes.
14 Q.And that's been the one constant probably
15 throughout your career in law enforcement, right, laws
16 change?
17 A.Yes.
18 Q.How do you as sheriff keep up to date regarding
19 these constantly changing laws?
20 A.I'm going to say again, that we have many
21 training sessions for our employees and there may be
22 times that I will be apprised of certain changes in the
23 laws.
24 Q.How are you apprised of certain changes in the
25 laws?How does that happen in the real world at your
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headquarters?
A.Well, many times my top staff would advise me.
3 Many times the County Attorney that are responsible for
4 the prosecution.
5 Q.Your "top staff," you mentioned, do you
6 remember mentioning sometimes your top staff advise you
7 regarding the changes of law?
8 A.Yes.
9 Q.Who constitutes your top command these days?
10 A.I have a chief deputy.
11 Q.And who is that?
12 A.That serves my pleasure, Jerry Sheridan.That
13 we have several deputy chiefs, captains, lieutenants,
14 sergeants, right down the line.
15 Q.How long have you worked with -- is it Deputy
16 Chief Sheridan?
17 A.Chief Deputy.
18 Q.Chief Deputy Sheridan.How long have you
19 worked with him?
20 A.I believe I appointed him about 10 years ago.
21 Q.Do you think he does a good job?
22 A.Yes.
23 Q.Is he a smart guy?
24 A.Yes.
25 Q.Is his knowledge of the law firm and secure?
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What did you learn?

A.What we learned on aspects of those amendments.
3 Q.I understand that.
4 But, specifically, do you remember
5 anything that you learned at that session?
6 A.It had to do with search and seizures.
7 Q.That -- okay.So -8 A.But I didn't -- I'm not going to go here and
9 tell you everything I learned.
10 Q.Well, tell me what you remember learning.
11 A.Certain aspects of the search of Fourth
12 Amendment and the search and seizures.
13 Q.Does the Fourth Amendment govern search and
14 seizures or is it another amendment?
15 A.Equal protection would be one.Search and
16 seizure does involve the search and seizures and that
17 type of thing.
18 Q.When you say "search and seizures," I'm
19 confused.Is that part of the Arizona legislature
20 statutory law?What part of law -- where does that
21 search and seizure law come from?
22 A.It would probably pertain to federal.
23 Q.So search and seizure law is a federal law?
24 A.I believe they have federal laws, yes.
25 Q.Okay.So Congress passed a law governing
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A.I don't know -- I haven't given him a test on

the law, so I don't know but I would presume he knows
3 what's going on.
4 Q.Isn't that something that you would want to
5 know rather than just presume?
6 A.Regarding the law?
7 Q.Yes.
8 A.I said we have many training sessions that have
9 to do with legal aspects with our employees.
10 Q.Do you attend any of those training sessions?
11 A.No.
12 Q.When's the last time that you've actually
13 participated in some type of educational activity
14 regarding the law in your capacity as our sheriff?
15 A.It could have been about maybe a year ago.
16 Q.What was it?
17 A.It had to do with certain amendments of the
18 law.
19 Q.What amendments were those, Sheriff Arpaio?
20 A.I think it was the Fourth and Fourteenth
21 Amendment.
22 Q.And what did you learn?
23 MR. LEONARD:Object to the form.
24 THE WITNESS:What did I learn?
25 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:You can answer the question:
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searches and seizures?

A.The Fourth Amendment, I think it involves.
3 Q.Fourth amendment to what?
4 A.It pertains to searches and seizures also.
5 Q.But you say the "Fourth"-6 A.Arrests and that type of thing.
7 Q.But where's the Fourth Amendment, where are you
8 getting that from?
9 A.It's coming in under the federal law, the
10 Constitution of Congress.You can go on and on.
11 Q.So is the Fourth Amendment something that
12 Congress passed?
13 A.The Constitution.
14 Q.Are you sure?
15 A.To my knowledge, it's the Constitution, the
16 amendments and so on.
17 Q.So this -- was this a seminar that you
18 attended, Sheriff Arpaio?
19 A.Yes.
20 Q.Where?
21 A.In our training headquarters.
22 Q.And it was approximately a year ago?
23 A.I believe so.
24 Q.And who was the instructor?
25 A.I don't recall.
2
Page 8
Page 29
1
Q.Okay.Other than it being about search and
2 seizure, what else do you remember?

3 A.Many aspects.
4 Q.Well, tell me.
5 A.Well, how to make arrests, probable cause, I
6 can go on and on.
7 Q.Go ahead, go on and on until you don't remember
8 any more.
9 A.Well, I'm going to say right now, probable
10 cause and that type of situation.So these are the
11 basic things that I have in my mind.
12 Q.Okay.What did you learn about probable cause
13 at that seminar that you attended at your offices
14 approximately a year ago, Sheriff Arpaio?
15 A.When you make arrests and so on, the probable
16 cause is an important element or reasonable suspicion.
17 Q.What is "reasonable suspicion"?
18 A.It depends on the circumstance.
19 Q.What's the difference between reasonable
20 suspicion and probable cause?
21 A.Probable cause would be where you need a little
22 more information.Reasonable suspicion is what the
23 word means.It all depends on the circumstance of the
24 situation.
25 Q.What do you need probable cause for?
Page 31
1
Q.But you're - A.That's why I have lawyers.

3 Q.I understand.
4 But you're in charge of law enforcement in
5 Maricopa County, right?
6 A.That's correct.
7 Q.And your folks can actually take people's
8 freedom away and haul them off to jail, right?
9 A.My folks are well trained, they receive legal
10 advice and they know what they're doing.
11 Q.I understand that, Sheriff Arpaio.But can you
12 answer my question?
13 MR. LEONARD:What's the question?
14 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:And the question was, I'll
15 remind you:What do you need reasonable suspicion for
16 in the context of being a sheriff or deputy sheriff in
17 Maricopa County at the Maricopa County Sheriff's
18 Office?
19 A.To continue an investigation.
20 Q.Can you arrest somebody based on a reasonable
21 suspicion?
22 If you know?
23 A.Once again, that's a legal situation and I
24 need -- it's difficult to give a blanket answer so I
25 can't give that blanket answer.
2
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1
A.To develop a case, probable cause, to conduct a

2 law enforcement situation, to obtain search warrants.
3 I can go on and on.To make arrests and that type of
4 thing.
5 Q.So you need probable cause to obtain a search
6 warrant?
7 A.Yes.
8 Q.And you need probable cause to arrest somebody?
9 A.Yes.
10 Q.And you used the term "reasonable suspicion,"
11 is reasonable suspicion another way of saying probable
12 cause?
13 A.Not really.
14 Q.What's the difference?
15 A.It could be enough of some information that
16 that does not really lead into the probable cause.
17 They continue the investigation, but you still have
18 reasonable suspicion of a situation.
19 Q.What do you need reasonable suspicion for in
20 the context of law enforcement at the Maricopa County
21 Sheriff's Office, Sheriff Arpaio?
22 A.This is -- well, I'm going to -- this is a
23 tough legal question you're asking me.But -24 Q.You're the sheriff.
25 A.I'm not a lawyer.
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1
Q.Well, if you can't give me a blanket answer,
2 give me what you think is a truthful accurate answer,

3 based upon your knowledge?
4 A.Well, I can give you one instance.
5 Q.Okay.
6 A.If someone -- there's a smell, for example, of
7 marijuana in the vehicle, it's kind of a reasonable
8 situation, and that may lead into furthering that
9 reasonable suspicion to maybe get a dog or get more
10 information about that, which leads into the probable
11 cause.
12 Q.Can you arrest somebody based upon a reasonable
13 suspicion like you smell marijuana smoke?If you know?
14 A.There's been some recent decisions, which I
15 haven't reviewed, so -- but I was trying to give you an
16 idea of reasonable suspicion versus probable cause.
17 Q.I understand.
18 But the question was, Sheriff Arpaio, can
19 one of your sheriff deputies or you in Maricopa County
20 arrest somebody based upon a reasonable suspicion that
21 they've committed a crime?
22 A.Once again, I'm going to say it may be a legal
23 question that I'm not ready to answer.
24 Q.I understand and I respect that.
25 You're saying your staff used to include
Page 9
Page 33
Page 35
1 THE WITNESS:Once again, I didn't
2 evaluate him.I take the advice of my chief deputy.
an individual named Brian Sands?

A.Yes.
3 Q.Who's he?
4 A.He's retired.
5 Q.Was he one of your sheriff deputies?
6 A.Yes.
7 Q.For how long?
8 A.I'm just guessing, it could be 30 years, 28
9 years.
10 Q.And, Sheriff, if you don't -- you know, I'm not
11 trying to put you on the spot, as far as dates go.Who
12 would know how long an employee worked for you.That's
13 a difficult question.
14 But he worked with you for a considerable
15 period of time?
16 A.Yes.
17 Q.And he retired?
18 A.Yes.
19 Q.And his retirement was voluntary?
20 A.Yes.
21 Q.What was his -22 A.He wasn't fired, he retired.
23 Q.Have you ever heard of retiring in lieu of
24 being fired?
25 A.Yes.
3 And usually I go by what my chief deputy says or my

4 subordinates that supervise people.
5 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Who was your chief deputy when
6 Sands served as your executive chief, Sheriff Arpaio?
7 A.I believe it was Jerry Sheridan.
8 Q.The same guy you have now, right?
9 A.Yes.Yes.
10 Q.Well, did he tell -- did he think that -- do
11 you know whether or not your Chief Deputy Sheridan
12 thought your Executive Chief Sands was doing a good
13 job?
14 A.Well, I'm sure that he has his own opinion.I
15 know there may have been some dissatisfaction on
16 occasions.But I don't get into it.That's up to him,
17 to the chief deputy to supervise his subordinates.
18 Q.Did Chief Deputy Sheridan ever tell you
19 anything negative about Executive Chief Sands?
20 MR. LEONARD:Steve, what does former
21 Deputy Sands have to do with this case?
22 MR. MONTOYA:I'm not going to get into it
23 with you.This is his deposition.That's an improper
24 statement.
25 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:But can you answer the
Page 34
1
Q.That wasn't the situation with Deputy Sands,

2 was it?
3 A.Not that I know of.
4 Q.Were you his direct supervisor?
5 A.No.
6 Q.Were you ever his direct supervisor?
7 A.No.
8 Q.What was his highest rank that you remember at
9 the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office?
10 A.I believe it was -- we change titles quite
11 often.
12 Q.I understand.
13 A.But he could have been executive chief.
14 Q.What's that, within your hierarchy?
15 A.That would be probably a rank above a deputy
16 chief, but under the chief deputy.
17 Q.Do you think he did a good job?
18 A.I had no problems during his career, that I
19 know of, whether he did a good job, because, once
20 again, his supervisor was not me, it was the chief
21 deputy that evaluates his performance.
22 Q.Well, Sheriff, let me ask you this:Do you
23 think, in your professional opinion, that Executive
24 Chief Sands did a good job when he worked under you?
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1
question, Sheriff Arpaio?

2 A.What's the question?
3 Q.Sure.Did your Chief Deputy Sheridan ever
4 criticize your Executive Chief Sands to you?Like
5 here's what I mean:Hey, Sheriff, I just want to tell
6 you, your Executive Chief Sands, I don't think he's
7 doing a good job.I don't think he's honest.I think
8 he's lazy.
9 Or, on the other hand, your Deputy Chief
10 Sheridan could have told you:Hey, your Executive
11 Chief Sands is awesome.He's super smart, super hard
12 working, super loyal to the County, very effective at
13 his job.That kind of stuff.
14 I'm asking whether or not your Chief
15 Deputy Sheridan ever gave you any feedback regarding
16 your Executive Chief Sands?
17 A.I have 4,000 employees.I don't remember every
18 one that's been evaluated.So I'm going to say, again,
19 I don't remember if he had any confusion, he may have
20 had and that would be up to him to talk about that.
21 Q.Do you remember anyone on your staff ever
22 coming to you and telling you that Executive Chief
23 Sands was a liar?
25 Q.Do you ever recall anyone on your staff ever
Page 10
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1
coming to you and telling you that Executive Chief

Sands was incompetent?
3 A.I don't recall.
4 Q.Are you aware that your former Executive Chief
5 Sands has written -- I'm pausing -- a book about you.
6 And the reason I'm pausing is because it's kind of like
7 almost one of those Internet books.I don't think you
8 can really buy it at the book store.Don't look for it
9 at Barnes & Noble.
10 Are you aware of that?It's actually
11 entitled, if I'm remembering correctly, "De Facto
12 Lawman"?
13 A.De facto?
14 Q.Yes.
15 A.No, I heard about it.Yes.
16 Q.What did you hear about it?
17 A.I heard he had a -- whatever you want to call
18 it -- out.
19 Q.Who told you?
20 A.I don't remember who told me but I know
21 somebody told me.I sure don't search the Internet to
22 see who's writing books on me.
23 Q.How many languages do you speak?
24 A.English.
25 Q.Yes.
2
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1
A.I was told.

Q.Who told you that?
3 A.I don't recall.
4 Q.What did they tell you?
5 A.Well, I believe there was -- they said there
6 was things in there that were not true.
7 Q.One of the things that your former executive
8 chief -- well, let me ask you this:Who's in charge of
9 promoting over at the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office?
10 A.Promoting?
11 Q.Yes.
12 A.Are you talking about promoting personnel?
13 Q.Yes.Yes.Like, for example, was Mr. Sheridan
14 always Chief Deputy Sheridan?
15 A.No.
16 Q.Who made him Chief Deputy Sheridan?
17 A.I did.
18 Q.Now, was Brian Sands always Executive Chief
19 Sands?
20 A.No.
21 Q.Who had the ultimate authority to make
22 Mr. Sands your executive chief?
23 A.That would be the chief deputy.
24 Q.Did you have to approve it as the sheriff?
25 A.It would be run by me, yes.
2
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1
A.English very well.Spanish, because I lived in

2 Mexico City, not that well.Turkish, I lived there for
3 four years, not that well.So I would have to say
4 English would be my primary language that I know.
5 Q.Any Italian?
6 A.Italian, once again, pieces but not that well.
7 Q.Have you ever studied any Italian librettos?
8 We were talking about opera earlier.
9 A.No.
10 Q.Do you know what "de facto" means?
11 A.That's a -- I really don't have the -- I have
12 an idea, but I -13 Q.What's your -14 A.-- never looked it up.Never -- I don't know
15 what that word means in Webster.But I just -- no, I
16 can't give you an answer, a definite answer what that
17 word means.
18 Q.A de facto -- well, what do you believe that it
19 means?
20 If you have a belief?
21 MR. LEONARD:Object to form.
22 THE WITNESS:I don't have a belief.
23 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Are you aware that Brian
24 Sands' book about you entitled, "De Facto Lawman" is
25 very critical of you?
Page 40
1
Q.So you approved Mr. Sands' promotion to
2 executive chief?
3 A.Taking the word of the chief deputy.
4 Q.I got it.
5 Now, are you a history buff?
6 A.No.
7 Q.But you do remember, because you served our
8 country, and thank you for that service, Sheriff, in
9 the Korean conflict.I know you weren't in Korea, but
10 you were still enlisted.You remember who our
11 president was back then, of course, that would have
12 been Harry Truman, right?
13 A.In 1950.
14 Q.Wasn't -- Truman was our president during the
15 Korean conflict, right?
16 A.Yes.Yes.
17 Q.And you've heard this, as I think almost
18 everyone has.
19 A.Okay.
20 Q.You might have the same plaque on your desk.
21 You made that gesture so you're a couple of laps ahead
22 of me.What did you mean when you made the gesture on
23 the table?
24 A.Well, maybe I was just taking an exercise.But
25 he was a good president.
Page 11
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1
Q.He was, I think.

A.I do too.
3 Q.He was tough too.
4 A.A good president.But I believe he said
5 something like the buck stops here, is that what you're
6 getting at?
7 Q.Yes.You're ahead of me.And I thank you for
8 that.
9 A.And I'm not ashamed to say that, what that
10 president said.
11 Q.No, I don't think you should be.
12 He had a plaque on his desk in the oval
13 office, I've read, that said, "The buck stops here."
14 Do you remember that?
15 A.I don't remember.I'm just remembering that -16 Q.Or have you heard of that?
17 A.No, I'm just remembering the verbiage.
18 Q.Okay.Does the buck stop with you at the
19 Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, Sheriff Arpaio?
20 A.I would say it does.
21 Q.And you're happy that it does because that's
22 part of your job as our elected sheriff, right?
23 A.Yes.And if you're a good manager, I presume
24 that you're not ashamed to say that.And I'm not
25 ashamed to say that.But I have my management way of
2
Page 43
1
nitpicking and just you talk about the buck stops here.
2 I'll give you my same type of situation.

3 Management is getting things done through
4 people.That's where I -- that's my own philosophy.
5 And I'm sure many other people have the same philosophy
6 in business, government or whatever.
7 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:I understand, Sheriff.
8 Let me ask you this, Sheriff:Is there
9 any part of your job responsibilities that you don't
10 delegate?
11 A.No.I would -- I got 4,000 employees, the
12 third largest sheriff's office, so, yes, I do delegate.
13 I don't go out and arrest people myself.
14 Q.I understand.
15 Let me ask the question, again, though,
16 even though I respect your answer and I think it was
17 informative.Is there any function of your job that
18 you don't delegate?
19 A.I can't think of one right now.
20 Q.Brian Sands writes in his book De Facto Lawman
21 that he repeatedly had to explain to you the concept of
22 probable cause.
23 What is your reaction to his claim?
25 THE WITNESS:I have no idea what he's
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1
dealing too.
Q.I understand.
3 Now, have you ever heard of some people
4 describe some managers as being very hands on?I'm a
5 hands on manager.Have you ever heard that phrase?
6 A.Yes.
7 Q.What do you understand that phrase to mean,
8 Sheriff?
9 A.It all depends on who or what occupation or
10 profession you're talking about.
11 Q.Well, that's a really good point, so I'll get
12 more specific.
13 What does that mean to you in the context
14 of Maricopa County Sheriff's Office?
15 And let me even be more specific.Are you
16 a hands-on manager at the Maricopa County Sheriff's
17 Office or are you something other than a hands-on
18 manager at the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office?
20 THE WITNESS:I'm the leader of the
21 organization put in office by the people.But I've
22 been a manager, federal -- I can go on and on -- for 50
23 years.And my philosophy, very simple, you delegate.
24 And I have that philosophy to delegate to my
25 subordinates and not get involved in nuts and bolts and
2
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1
talking about.
Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Well, let me ask you as a
3 matter of fact.Do you remember Brian Sands repeatedly

4 having to explain to you the concept of probable cause?
5 A.No.
6 Q.Do you deny that he repeatedly explained to you
7 the concept of probable cause or is it I don't
8 remember?
9 A.I don't ever remember him being a legal advisor
10 or a teacher telling the sheriff what probable cause
11 means.
12 Q.I understand.
13 According to Brian Sands he writes in his
14 book, quote, "Arpaio once told me that the aggressive
15 animal abuse image that he developed was a political
16 gold mine, as it brought a number of Democrats into his
17 base.That certainly became apparent as I would hear
18 people say they were against Arpaio, but because he
19 defended animals, he was great," unquote.
20 What's your reaction to that statement
21 from your former Executive Chief Brian Sands?
23 THE WITNESS:First of all, I'm not going
24 to get into the reason he resigned.I will almost call
25 him a very disgruntled employee without -- that's my
2
Page 12
Page 45
1
opinion and others.

So the question you have is that I said
3 that I enforce the animal cruelty for what reason.
4 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:I'll tell you.
5 A.For Democrats and so on?Is that what you're
6 saying?
7 Q.No, Sheriff, I'm not saying it.
8 A.No, he's saying it.
9 Q.Yeah, he's saying it.
10 A.No, I'm asking you what he's -- I'm asking you
11 to repeat -12 Q.I will.
13 A.-- what he said about me.
14 Q.I will, Sheriff.But realize, I'm not saying
15 that.I don't know one way or the other.
16 A.Okay.Could you repeat the question, please?
17 Q.Absolutely, Sheriff.
18 A.Thank you.
19 Q.Quote, "Arpaio once told me that the aggressive
20 animal abuse image he developed was a political gold
21 mine, as it brought a number of Democrats into his
22 base.That certainly became apparent as I would hear
23 people say they were against Arpaio, but because he
24 defended animals, he was great," unquote.
25 Is that true?
2
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1
helped you raise a lot of money.

What's your reaction to that?
3 A.I have no idea.Raising money, I don't have
4 people saying here's the money because of animal
5 cruelty enforcement.
6 But if it does happen, nothing wrong with
7 it.I'm doing my job.I believe that those laws
8 should be enforced, like other laws that may even be
9 controversial, and that's what I do as the sheriff.
10 Q.Brian Sands also says in his book that you are
11 really not interested in the nuts and bolts of law
12 enforcement.Is that true?
13 A.I'm going to say my management style, I just
14 said it, I delegate to my subordinates.I have
15 confidence in them to get the job done.So if you want
16 to call that nuts and bolts or whatever.
17 Q.So you agree with Brian Sands, at least in that
18 respect, that you're not really interested in the nuts
19 and bolts of law enforcement?
21 THE WITNESS:Well, I am interested in
22 nuts and bolts.I'm interested in anything that
23 happens in this organization, but I have the management
24 skill, just like I delegated to him on his nuts and
25 bolts how he should be conducting himself and that's my
2
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1
A.I have a lot of support for that subject matter

and many other things that my dedicated employees do,
3 which translates to the elected sheriff.And I have a
4 lot of top priorities.I'm trying to answer this
5 without dragging this thing on forever.I could say,
6 no, yes, but I'm just going to say this had nothing to
7 do with politics.
8 I started this -- this animal cruelty many
9 years ago, many years ago when they were killing cats
10 in Ahwatukee.
11 Now, if the people support me on that
12 issue, okay.If they don't support me, it doesn't
13 matter, because I do a lot of things that people may
14 not support.So this is something that I made a
15 priority, animal cruelty.So whether it's, as you say,
16 to get elected and so on, no.
17 Q.Brian Sands also suggests, and he suggests in
18 this, I'm not suggesting it.
19 A.I understand.
20 Q.I'm just here to ask you -21 A.Yeah.
22 Q.-- what your reaction to it is.
23 A.Yes.
24 Q.Brian Sands also suggests that the reason why
25 you were so aggressive on animal cruelty is because it
2
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1
style.
Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:I understand.
3 Now Brian Sands also writes in his book
4 that although you're not interested in the nuts and
5 bolts of law enforcement, according to him, you're very
6 much interested in interacting with the media.
7 What's your reaction to that?
9 THE WITNESS:Most of the time the media
10 comes after me and my philosophy is to respond.I
11 don't hide from the media.So if you do -- if you are
12 enforcing the law, some of it may be controversial, the
13 media gets excited, and I respond.So being the
14 elected sheriff, it's my duty to let you or the
15 4,000,000 people know what's going on in the Sheriff's
16 Office.
17 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:I understand that.
18 But, Sheriff, my question was a little bit
19 more specific than that.Brian Sands claims you're not
20 interested in the nuts and bolts of law enforcement on
21 one hand, but you're totally interested in interacting
22 with the media on the other hand.Is that true?
24 THE WITNESS:I'm interested in the nuts
25 and bolts.I said -2
Page 13
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1
Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:So it's not true?

2 A.No, no, it's not true.
3 Q.Okay.
4 A.And I have to -5 MR. LEONARD:Don't interrupt.
6 THE WITNESS:Excuse me
7 MR.LEONARD:Don't interrupt him.Please
8 don't interrupt.
9 THE WITNESS:I have to respond to clear
10 up one thing.
11 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Please.
12 A.Because we're twisting the nuts and bolts
13 around.
14 Q.Set it straight.
15 A.I have said from day -- when you asked me about
16 this, about my management style, I said I delegate.I
17 give the authority and confidence to my employees.It
18 doesn't mean I'm not interested in the nuts and bolts.
19 They carry out what I'm interested in the nuts and
20 bolts.They get the job done.
21 Q.I understand.
22 So that takes care of what -23 A.I hope I've clarified that.
24 Q.I think you did.
25 A.The way that I feel.
Page 51
1
A.That's right.
Q.So you're not calling Brian Sands a liar, are
3 you?
4 A.No.
5 Q.And sometimes people's memories differ, right?
6 A.I would imagine.
7 Q.And it could be that Brian Sands is accurate
8 when he claims that he repeatedly had to explain the
9 concept of probable cause to you, right, and you just
10 don't remember?
11 A.I don't remember him ever giving me
12 instructions on probable cause.
13 Q.That's true.But that doesn't mean that he's
14 lying and his claim that he had to repeatedly instruct
15 you regarding the content of probable cause, that
16 doesn't mean that he's lying, right?He could be
17 telling the truth, you just don't remember?
18 A.Well, he's writing a book, so I don't know if
19 this book is a legal document or what it is on his
20 allegations in his book.
21 So, once again, I don't remember whether
22 it's true or not true.It's a possibility that he
23 could have on occasion.
24 Q.Now, Sheriff, have other -- have other people
25 accused you of being very much interested in attracting
2
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1
Q.So when Brian Sands says that you're not

interested in the nuts and bolts of law enforcement,
3 that's not true?
4 A.Of course, it's not true.
5 Q.I understand.
6 Now on the other hand, according to you,
7 it's also not true when Brian Sands says that you're
8 only interested in interacting with the media; that's
9 not true either, right?
10 A.That is not true.
11 Q.I understand.
12 So you believe that Brian Sands is
13 untruthful?
15 THE WITNESS:In those aspects, yes.
16 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:No, Sheriff, a little while
17 ago -18 A.When you say "untruthful," I don't use that
19 word.
20 Q.What word do you use?
21 A.You have a misunderstanding.
22 Q.Okay.And a misunderstanding can be accidental
23 or intentional, right?
24 A.I have no idea.
25 Q.And you don't know which it is, right?
2
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1
publicity to yourself?Has anyone else ever accused

you of that, Sheriff Arpaio?
3 A.Accused me of publicity, is that the question?
4 Q.No.And, Sheriff, I thank you for asking me to
5 clarify -6 A.Would you clarify it?
7 Q.I will.But, Sheriff, I want to tell you this:
8 Sheriff, you have the right to interrupt me and ask me
9 to clarify at any time, all right?Which is what you
10 just did,
11 A.And I did it a couple of minutes ago.
12 Q.I know and I -13 A.Thank you, thank you for that.
14 Q.And I respect that.
15 But you don't have to thank me for it,
16 sir, because that's your right and I respect it.
17 But let me ask you this:Has anyone else
18 ever accused you of attempting to attract a lot of
19 publicity towards yourself?
20 A.There are people that may.I don't remember
21 who they are, but there has been people talk.I guess
22 a lot of publicity, yeah.Even the media will say
23 that.I mean, they will say that he's a publicity
24 hound, but yet they call me; I don't call them.
25 Q.You used the term "publicity hound," what do
2
Page 14
Page 53
1
you mean by that?

2 A.I don't know.
3 Q.Well, you used -4 A.I'm just saying what some people have said.
5 Q.You used the term -- did you use a term that
6 you don't understand?
7 A.I didn't use the term.I'm saying some people
8 in response to -- you asked me if anybody has said I'm
9 geared towards the press, I'm saying, once again, there
10 has been talk in my career of 24 years.But when the
11 media comes, I respond to them normally.So -12 Q.I understand.
13 A.-- that's normally the way it work with the
14 sheriff.
15 Q.I understand.
16 Do you understand that term "publicity
17 hound" to mean someone who inordinately seeks
18 publicity?
19 A.Well, I don't know what the word hound means.
20 I guess, you have animals, you have dogs called hounds
21 too.So I don't know -- that's not my -- that's not my
22 terminology.But some people, I don't remember who,
23 have said that.But it doesn't affect me any way what
24 they say.
25 Q.Brian Sands accuses you of being tough on
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1
name -- whose last name is Snow?
2 Judge Snow.
3 A.It's a judge.Yeah, okay.
4 You should have said Judge Snow.
5 Q.Well, he's also an individual.
6 Are you familiar with Judge Murray Snow?
7 A.Yes.
8 Q.Over at the federal court?
9 A.Yes.
10 Q.What's your opinion of him?
12 THE WITNESS:I respect all judges.
13 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:So you respect Judge Snow?
14 A.I respect all judges.
15 Q.Including Judge Snow?
16 A.Yes.
17 Q.Now he's recently found you to be in contempt
18 of court, hasn't he?
19 A.Are we getting into a current federal
20 investigation case, is that what you're asking me?
21 Q.Well, I'm asking whether or not federal -- I'm
22 asking whether or not United States District Judge
23 Murray Snow has recently found you to be in contempt?
24 A.Yes.
25 Q.Is he right?
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1
alleged animal cruelty to garner publicity and to

collect contributions.You deny that, correct?
3 A.Yes.
4 Q.Has anyone else ever accused you of engaging in
5 certain activities, in your office, in order to gather
6 money for your political campaigns?
8 Q.Would that be false?If someone were to accuse
9 you of manipulating your law enforcement in order to
10 collect campaign contributions, would that be false?
11 A.Yes.
12 Q.Would that be a lie?
14 THE WITNESS:I don't use the word "lie."
15 I will say as far as I'm concerned what he is saying is
16 not true.
17 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Who else -18 A.That may be his idea.
19 Q.Who else has accused you of using your office
20 and your law enforcement activities within your office
21 to gather publicity and collect campaign contributions.
22 Who else has accused you besides Sands?
23 A.I don't really remember anyone else actually
24 coming out and saying what he said.
25 Q.Are you familiar with an individual whose
2
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1
A.I'm not going to comment on that.

Q.Why not?
3 A.It's still in progress.
4 Q.How is it still in progress?
5 A.I'm not going to comment.This is something my
6 lawyers are handling.
7 MR. LEONARD:Steve, if you want to get
8 into that case, then, you know, we can, assuming you're
9 permitted to do it, which has nothing to do with this
10 litigation, then we can recess and we can contact the
11 Sheriff's lawyer in that case and give them an
12 opportunity -13 MR. MONTOYA:We're not going to do that.
14 We're not going to do that at all.
15 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:And, Sheriff Arpaio, you are
16 here because I've noticed your deposition.You are not
17 here voluntarily, sir, and you cannot refuse to answer
18 a question unless the court allows you not to answer
19 the question or your attorney instructs you not to
20 answer because the question violates the
21 attorney-client privilege.
22 Now, we are claiming in this lawsuit,
23 Sheriff Arpaio, that you do a lot of things for the
24 sake of publicity.A federal judge has recently found,
25 in writing, in a contempt order, that you do a lot of
2
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1
things for publicity.So I think it is related and
2 that's why I'm asking you the question.

3 So what is your response to Judge Snow's
4 factual finding that's very recent that you engage in
5 certain law enforcement activities in order to garner
6 publicity and collect campaign money?
7 A.I'm not going to comment on that.That was his
8 decision.It hasn't been completed yet.And I'm not
9 going to question the ACLU allegations or his decision.
10 But I disagree that I do not run this organization to
11 obtain campaign money.I think that was an allegation
12 by ACLU.
13 Q.Okay, I understand.
14 How many times have you been held in
15 contempt of court, Sheriff?
16 A.In my 55 years?
17 Q.Yes.
18 A.One.
19 Q.And it was by Murray Snow?
20 A.Yes.
21 Q.And that was a very significant event for you,
22 wasn't it?
23 A.What do you mean by "significant"?
24 Q.Well, significant meaning important.It was a
25 very important event in your professional career when a
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Sheriff, the date is May 13th of this

year, that's the date it was entered.
3 Are you familiar with that document?
4 A.I know it came through, yes.
5 Q.Can I have it back?
6 You can look at it too.
7 A.May 31.
8 Q.Now, Sheriff, have you read this document?
9 A.I'm pretty sure I went through it with my
10 lawyers possibly.
11 Q.Okay.Now, Sheriff, have you read this
12 document?It's a simple question.
13 A.Let me see the document again.
14 Q.Absolutely, Sheriff.
15 A.It's a rather large document.
16 Q.It is.It's very voluminous, to be sure.
17 A.I'm sure I went through it.
18 Q.Did you read the whole thing?
19 A.I'm probably sure I did.
20 Q.Are you probably -- is it -- did you read this?
21 The answer would be, yes, no or probably or I don't
22 know?
23 A.Well, I'm saying -24 MR. LEONARD:Object to form.
25 THE WITNESS:I'm saying I'm rather
2
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1
federal district judge here in Maricopa County, after a
2 lengthy evidentiary hearing, found you in contempt.

3 Was that important or significant to you?
4 A.I think it was important but just let me just
5 basically say that my chief deputy and I admitted to
6 that situation as a leader to take the heat, if you
7 want to use that word, as managers for this
8 organization.
10 A.I'm not going to speak any further about that.
11 I just responded to, you asked me how I felt, and I
12 just gave you the answer.
13 Q.I understand, Sheriff Arpaio.
14 Sheriff Arpaio, I'm not going to make this
15 an exhibit, but I am going to identify it for the
16 record.This is a document.It's entitled "Findings
17 of Fact and Order Setting the Hearing for May 31st,
18 2016."It's in the case of Manuel de Jesus Ortega
19 Melendres and United States of America versus Joseph M.
20 Arpaio in his official capacity of Sheriff of Maricopa
21 County.
22 Are you familiar with that case?
23 A.What date was that?
24 Q.I didn't give you the date, Sheriff Arpaio, but
25 I'll give it to you now, sir.
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convinced I read it.Whether I read every page, I

don't remember.
3 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:How's your memory?
4 A.Memory's good.
5 Q.Good.
6 Do you remember the court finding, quote,
7 "Sheriff Arpaio knowingly ignored the Court's order
8 because he believed that his popularity resulted, at
9 least in part, from his enforcement of immigration
10 laws," period unquote.
11 That's from page 14 of Judge Snow's order
12 of May 13th of this year, Docket Number 1677.
13 Do you remember reading that?
14 A.I remember now.I can't remember what was in
15 that document now.My memory is good, but I sure don't
16 remember everything in that, how many pages.
17 Q.Do you remember how many pages this thing is?
18 A.No.
19 Q.It's 162 pages.It's pretty long, right?
20 A.That's why I can't remember.
21 Q.But do you remember the part I just read,
22 because that's a pretty critical part, at least in
23 reference to yourself?
24 A.I remember it now because you just refreshed my
25 memory.
2
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Q.Is it true?
A.Once again, this case is not finished.I don't
3 believe it's true.What he's saying that I -- can you
4 repeat that again about the popularity?
5 Q.Yes, sir, I can.
6 A.Thank you.
7 Q.I would be happy to.
8 Quote, "Sheriff Arpaio knowingly ignored
9 the Court's order because he believed that his
10 popularity resulted, at least in part, from his
11 enforcement of immigration laws.He also believed that
12 it resulted in generous donations to his campaign."
13 Is that true?
14 A.As far as I'm concerned, I'm not trying to
15 disagree with the judge because that may come at a
16 later date.But right now, I don't agree with his or
17 the ACLU's decision on this.
18 Q.Is this the judge's decision or the ACLU's
19 decision?
20 A.The ACLU presented a case to the judge.
21 Q.But the judge decided the case, right?
22 A.He decided -- you're saying that that part -23 are you saying that was his decision, the judge made
24 that comment?
25 Q.Yes, Sheriff Arpaio.
2
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1
was disrespectful to the court in any way.So if

you -- I don't want you to think that I'm trying to get
3 you to disrespect the judge, but I think you have been
4 respectful towards him.
5 A.Thank you.
6 Q.You're welcome.
7 Now, when you got this order, did you take
8 it home with you to study?
9 A.I don't recall whether I took it home or did it
10 in the office.
11 Q.Have you read it more than once?
13 You've asked him and it's been answered.
14 THE WITNESS:I'm sure I read it once.I
15 don't remember if I read it again or went through some
16 parts of it.
17 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Because it's pretty hard on
18 you, isn't it?
19 A.What is hard on me?
20 Q.Judge Snow's findings on fact and order holding
21 you in contempt of May 13th, 2016.The order finding
22 you in contempt which, as you testified to, you
23 admitted to before the hearing.It's pretty tough on
24 you, isn't it?
25 A.You're talking about civil contempt, is that
2
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1
A.Okay.
Q.This is the order.
3 A.Uh-huh.
4 Q.You're familiar with it, right?
5 A.I remember the order, yes.
6 Q.Did you read it more than once?
7 A.I'm not -- I'm sure I read it once.
8 Q.You're sure you read it once?
9 A.But I can't remember everything that I read.
10 You're asking me these questions now.
11 Q.Sheriff Arpaio, is it your sworn testimony that
12 you read this order all the way through?
13 A.Yes, I said that.
14 MR. LEONARD:The question has already
15 been asked and answered several times.
16 MR. MONTOYA:Okay.
17 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Now, Sheriff, the part that I
18 was reading from, isn't written by the ACLU, sir, it's
19 written by the Court.Do you understand that?
20 A.I'm going to answer it again.This is the
21 judge's decision.It doesn't mean that I fully agree
22 with it.
23 Q.I understand.
24 And, Sheriff, I want to get something
25 straight with you.I don't think that your testimony
2
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1
correct?
Q.Yes.Yes, Sheriff.Certainly not criminal.
3 A.Well, I -4 Q.Yet.
5 A.What did you say?
6 Q.It's not criminal yet.
7 A.Yet?
8 Q.Yeah.And I'll tell you what I mean by that,
9 since you asked.As you know better than I -10 A.I'm asking you what you're talking about here.
11 Q.And that's your right, Sheriff.
12 A.You said "contempt," are you talking about
13 civil contempt?
14 Q.I'm talking about civil contempt, but -15 A.Okay.That's what I asked you.This is a
16 civil contempt that we're dealing with.
17 Q.But you also understand that the judge is
18 contemplating recommending criminal contempt charges
19 against you, correct?
20 A.I don't know what his decision is.I don't
21 read the judge's mind.
22 Q.I understand and I respect that answer, Sheriff
23 Arpaio.
24 But Judge Snow's civil contempt findings
25 against you are pretty hash, aren't they?
2
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1
A.I believe that was a finding against me and my

office.
3 Q.It was against you individually, though, too,
4 wasn't it?
5 A.And many others.
6 Q.That's correct.
7 Isn't it true that Judge Snow also found
8 that, quote, "Sheriff Arpaio knowingly attempted to
9 conceal 50 hard drives of Montgomery information,"
10 unquote.Isn't that true?
11 A.I'm not a lawyer, but I would have to say that
12 the word "Arpaio" is through -- instead of saying the
13 Sheriff's Office, the name is used where I may not have
14 any knowledge, but still the name is used, Arpaio this,
15 Arpaio that, Arpaio that.So I will say this, many of
16 these situations, I've had no knowledge of.So this is
17 the judge's order.I respect his order.And that's
18 it.
19 Q.I understand.
20 Isn't it true that the judge specifically
21 found on page 65, Paragraph 367 of his order, that
22 quote, "On October 18th, 2013, Sheriff Arpaio and
23 Deputy Sheridan began misstating the contents of this
24 Court's order to their own officers in training
25 sessions and maligning the order as unconstitutional,
2
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11:30 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:This begins Media 2 in
3 the deposition of Sheriff Joseph Arpaio.On the record

4 at 11:49 a.m.
5 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff, you've had a break,
6 correct?
7 A.Yes.Yes.
8 Q.And you had the opportunity to confer with your
9 two lawyers here this morning?
10 A.Yes.
11 Q.Did you confer with them?
12 A.Yes.
13 Q.Is there any part of your testimony that you
14 want to change or modify or supplement at this time?
15 A.No.
16 Q.Okay.Now, Sheriff, before we took the break
17 you testified that the media comes to you.Do you
18 remember that?
19 A.Yes.
20 Q.And that you don't go to the media?
21 A.No, I didn't say that.
22 Q.Do you go to the media too?
23 A.My public relations people do go to the media.
24 Q.Who are your -- when you say your "public
25 relations people," Sheriff Arpaio, tell me what you
2
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1
ludicrous and crap," unquote.

2 Is that -- he found that, didn't he?
3 A.That's his decision.
4 Q.Is it true?
5 A.I'm not going to question his decision.
6 Q.Well, let me ask you this:Did you ever
7 describe Judge Snow's order as unconstitutional,
8 ludicrous and/or crap?
9 A.I don't recall saying that.
10 Q.Do you deny having said that?
11 A.I don't recall saying that.
12 Q.So you don't deny it?
13 A.I don't recall ever saying it.
14 MR. LEONARD:Okay.Steve, don't -- first
15 of all, don't raise your voice.I know you've
16 explained your hearing issue, but don't raise your
17 voice.We've been -- it's about 11:30 now.This is
18 probably a good time to take a break.
20 Can I get you folks anything to make you
21 more comfortable?
22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:This ends Media 1 of
23 the deposition of Sheriff Joseph Arpaio.Off the
24 record at 11:30 a.m.
25 (Whereupon, a 19-minute recess ensued from
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mean by that.
A.Well, we. . .
3 Q.Go ahead.
4 A.Every large organization has a public
5 information office.I do too.
6 Q And what is that for?
7 A.To deal with the news media.
8 Q.Why do you have that?
9 A.Many reasons.Just about every day we're
10 receiving information from the media.Whether it's to
11 retrieve information of this office and also to
12 communicate with the media.
13 Q.Is that part of your job as Maricopa County
14 chief law enforcement officer?
15 A.It's my job of running an agency, a law
16 enforcement agency that everyone deals with the media.
17 Q.Who's your spokesperson for dealing with the
18 media, Sheriff?
19 A.We have maybe three, a detention officer, a
20 deputy sheriff and director of the -- that section of
21 my office.
22 Q.Who -- do you know what a press conference is?
23 A.Yes.
24 Q.And, Sheriff, I don't mean to patronize you.I
25 figured you knew what a press conference was.The
2
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1
reason why I'm asking you is because it's got to be
2 clear for the record.You understand that, right?

3 A.Yes.
4 Q.Who gives press conferences at the Maricopa
5 County sheriff's office on your behalf?Who do you
6 delegate that to?
7 A.That goes to the public information officer.
8 Q.And the public information officer will have a
9 press conference on behalf of you, Sheriff?
10 A.Sometimes I would participate.Sometimes they
11 would.They are very active in dealing with the media
12 on the air.
13 Q.What is your understanding of a press
14 conference?
15 A.Well, my understanding would be when there's a
16 subject matter that the media is interested in, they
17 start calling.Sometimes it's best to do it all at
18 once and not have to talk to each individual media
19 outlet and do it at once and that would be considered a
20 press conference.
21 Q.Okay.Who gives press conferences at the
22 Maricopa County Sheriff's Office?
24 THE WITNESS:It could be members of my
25 public information office.
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Q.Sheriff, when you give a press conference or

when you talk to the press and it's on film and there
3 are questions and answers, who makes the decision that
4 you're going to preside at that press conference on
5 behalf of your office?Is it you or is it one of your
6 subordinates?
7 A.It could be both.It could be them suggesting
8 that we do the press conference.It could be me
9 suggesting that, you know, that I would want to be
10 there or it all depends.
11 Q.Do you keep records or recordings of all of
12 your press conferences?
13 A.We -- I think we do, our office does.I don't
14 know about all of them.But we do have a system
15 sometime where we can record it ourselves.
16 Q.Have you ever heard of the Gilbert 20 or the
17 Gilbert 22?
18 A.Which case are you talking about?I don't want
19 to give -- yeah, I heard of the Gilbert 22.
20 Q.What is that?
21 A.I think that was an organization or concern
22 about the animals that died in Gilbert.
23 Q.Over at Green Acre?
24 A.Yes.
25 Q.Okay.Did you give any press conferences
2
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1
Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:You give press conferences
2 too, right?
3 A.There are occasions when I will speak before
4 the press.
5 Q.How often do you give press conferences?
6 A.I don't know how many times.But we do -- I
7 get involved on several occasions.
8 Q.Okay.We're in July, right?
9 A.Yes.
10 Q.Have you given any press conferences this
11 month?
12 A.I gave one last night.
13 Q.Regarding what?
14 The serial killer?
15 A.Actually, is it a press conference?There's a
16 thin line, okay, what you call a press -- that's why
17 I'm hesitating what you call a press conference.But
18 this is something that happened and I decided to go
19 public and get it done all at one time.
20 Q.You decided?
21 A.Yes.
22 Q.No one decided for you, right?
23 A.No.The public information officer let me know
24 that the media was -- you know, they were interested
25 and I decided to talk at the -- to the press.
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1
regarding what the events that transpired at the Green
2 Acre over in Gilbert involving the death of over a

3 dozen dogs?
4 A.You know, if I recall, I may have given one,
5 what you call a press conference, getting everybody
6 together.
7 Q.Who decided to do that?
8 A.I think it was in conjunction with the -- my
9 public, you know, relations office, it was sort of a
10 controversial situation and why not talk to everybody
11 at the same time.
12 Q.So did you decide to go speak to the press or
13 did your staff direct you to go speak to the press?
14 A.If I recall, it could have been a mutual
15 decision.
16 Q.Let me get one thing straight, though, Sheriff.
17 Your subordinates don't tell you what to do, do they?
18 They advise you?
19 A.They advise and recommend.And that's another
20 management I mentioned before, I delegate.But I do
21 listen to what people may -- that may have a question
22 or some advice.
23 Q.But you don't speak to the press unless you
24 believe it's appropriate, right?
25 A.I had the final say.
Page 19
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Q.That I understand -2 A.As to whether I want to talk to the media or

3 not.
4 Q.And you only speak to the media when you
5 believe it's appropriate, right?
6 A.Yes.
7 Q.Have you ever heard of a guy named Tom Lovejoy?
8 A.Yes.
9 Q.Who's he?
10 A.He was a sergeant I believe on the police
11 department.
12 Q.Which police department?
13 A.Chandler, was it?Is that who you're talking
14 about?
15 Q.Yes.Have you ever spoken about him?
16 A.About him?
17 Q.Yeah.
18 A.Yes.
19 Q.What did you say?
21 THE WITNESS:That was an investigation
22 that my office did on him.I never talked to him, no.
23 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Did you ever give a
24 press conference regarding Tom Lovejoy?
25 A.I may have.I don't recall.
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1
They had the evidence to cause that arrest.

Q.Did you approve of Mr. Lovejoy's arrest after
3 he was arrested?
4 A.What is -- like approve after he was -- did I
5 approve of it, is that -6 Q.Yeah.
7 A.No, I -- what my job was that the arrest was
8 made pursuant to my detectives that conducted an
9 investigation and then turned it over to the
10 prosecutors.
12 But my question was:After Mr. Lovejoy
13 was arrested by your subordinates, did you approve of
14 the arrest?
15 A.I don't approve or disapprove of arrests.
16 There is no form or anything else that I get involved
17 with.That's the investigating officer that does all
18 the reporting.
19 Q.Did you think it was a good arrest?
20 A.I have confidence in my detectives.
21 Q.Did you think that your detectives' arrest of
22 Mr. Lovejoy was a lawful arrest?
23 A.Did I think?I said, again, I go by what my
24 detectives -- how they operate.
25 Q.And I heard you and I respect that.
2
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1
Q.And your office investigated Tom Lovejoy?

A.Yes.
3 Q.For what?
4 A.Animal cruelty.
5 Q.What did he do?
6 A.I don't have all the nuts and bolts of it.But
7 in general, it wasn't something I got involved with,
8 like, I don't during an investigation.But I believe
9 our Animal Cruelty Unit investigated him.
10 Q.For -- he allegedly engaged in some type of
11 cruelty to animals?
12 A.That I can recall.I believe he left his K-9
13 in his vehicle for 14 hours or 12, 14 hours.Once
14 again, I don't get involved in the nuts and bolts, I'm
15 talking in generalities.And he was arrested for
16 animal cruelty, I believe.
17 Q.Did you authorize his arrest?
18 A.I go by what the investigators do.I don't
19 authorize every arrest that's made, which is many
20 arrests every day are made by my office.
21 Q.I understand that, Sheriff, but that wasn't my
22 question.My question was more specific than that.
23 My question was:Did you authorize your
24 subordinates to arrest Tom Lovejoy for animal cruelty?
25 A.I did not authorize.That was their decision.
2
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1
A.Yes.
Q.But my question is a little bit different than
3 that.You know what a -- okay, arrests can be lawful

4 or unlawful, right?
5 A.It depends.
6 Q.Have you ever heard of something called a false
7 arrest?
8 A.Yes.
9 Q.What is your understanding, Sheriff Arpaio, of
10 the terms false arrest?
11 A.That's a legal question that I'm not sure how
12 to answer that.
13 Q.Give me your best honest answer?
14 A.I mentioned probable cause.I can go on and
15 on, but many arrests are made that maybe do not turn
16 into a conviction, but that's not a false arrest.
17 Q.Well, have you ever heard of the term a "false
18 arrest"?
19 A.Yes.
20 Q.What is your understanding of it?
21 A.Once again, that is a legal question, and every
22 case is different.And I haven't come up with any in
23 my law enforcement career that I could ever say that
24 someone was framed.I would probably say when you
25 frame someone, it may be a false arrest.
2
Page 20
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1
Q.So is your definition of a false arrest,
2 Sheriff Arpaio, an arrest that results from a frame up?

3 A.If the intent of the investigator is to
4 investigate a case, good conscience, and if that case
5 results in a -- not a conviction, that's something that
6 you have to look at the judiciary and to the
7 prosecutor.
8 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:So is it your testimony,
9 Sheriff Arpaio, that a false arrest is that arrest that
10 doesn't result in a conviction?
11 A.No, I didn't say that.I said a false arrest
12 could be, the way I look at it, where is framed, no
13 evidence whatsoever, no probable cause, no reasonable
14 suspicion, and no investigation.
15 Q.So if you have reasonable suspicion to arrest
16 someone, that precludes the arrest from being
17 adjudicated subsequently as a false arrest?
18 A.No, I didn't say that.I said -19 Q.That's a question.
20 A.No.I don't look at it that way.
21 Q.How do you look -- do you disagree with this
22 statement:If you don't have reasonable suspicion to
23 arrest someone, that's a false arrest?
24 A.No, I didn't say that.
25 Q.Why don't you agree with that?
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1
with the prosecution and judiciary system.So when you

say what is a false arrest, I just can't give you that
3 answer.
4 Q.Well, I'll give you an answer that I think is
5 correct -6 A.Okay.
7 Q.-- and ask you what you think about it.
8 A false arrest is an arrest that lacks
9 probable cause.
10 Do you agree with that?
11 A.No.
12 Q.Why don't you agree with that?
13 A.Because it all depends on the situation.You
14 could cut -- you could argue is information enough to
15 follow through?I'm not going to get into every
16 investigation, what constitutes something that could be
17 a false arrest.
18 Q.Have you ever heard of a -- now, there are
19 consequences -- well, let me phrase it as a question.
20 And I'm asking you this in your capacity
21 as our sheriff.
22 Sheriff, are there consequences for
23 arresting somebody without probable cause?
24 A.It all depends on the circumstances.
25 Q.Tell me what it would depend on.
2
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1
A.I would think it would have to do with the -further as to what that -- why was that decision made?
3 Was there acting in good faith, good conscience.
4 Q.So if someone is acting in good faith, that
5 precludes them from making a false arrest; is that your
6 testimony?
7 A.Once again, that's a legal term that I'm not
8 going to answer.You're asking me legal terms and I'm
9 not a lawyer to go into words, what a word means and so
10 in every case it's different.That's why we have the
11 system that we have.
12 Q.But, Sheriff, you're a law enforcement officer,
13 right?
14 A.Yes.
15 Q.And as a law enforcement officer, in the field,
16 you actually are the individual who helps enforce the
17 law, right?
18 A.I'm the -- I'm going to say again, that I
19 delegate to my detectives.They are well-trained and
20 they know what probable cause is or suspicion or facts
21 of a case.And I'm not going to second-guess their
22 decisions.Unless it's so obvious that someone has
23 been framed or what have you.
24 Now, how cases turn out sometimes, it's
25 not the detectives' decision.Sometimes it has to do
2
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1
A.I don't know.Every case is different.I

don't know what the circumstances could be.I do know
3 when my detectives act in good faith and they conduct
4 investigations, which they do, if it turns out to be
5 that there's no conviction, it's not up to us.
6 Q.That's up to the jury, right?
7 A.It's up to the prosecutor.And if it gets up
8 to the judicial system, which doesn't have to be a
9 jury, I'm not going to split hairs here.
10 Q.It's true.
11 A.I'm not trying to argue with you.
12 Q.That's all right.
13 A.I'm just trying to answer your legal questions
14 that you're asking me.
15 Q.I understand.
16 Now, in reference to Tom Lovejoy, do you
17 believe that your office's arrest of him was lawful?
18 A.Yes.
19 Q.Why do you believe that?
20 A.Because I believe we had the evidence.
21 Q.What was the evidence?
22 A.Once again, I don't run these cases.You're
23 talking about nuts and bolts of an investigation.So
24 my detectives are well-trained in this type of
25 activity, decided to file charges on him.
2
Page 21
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1
Q.I understand.
2 (Whereupon, Mr. Austin Flake enters the

3 deposition at 12:09 a.m.)
4 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:And, Sheriff, I told you that
5 I would tell you everyone who came into the room.
6 The young man who just came into the
7 room -8 THE WITNESS:Hi, Austin.
9 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:-- that -10 A.I never met the guy but -11 MR. AUSTIN FLAKE:No.
12 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:You knew him.
13 A.Well, I don't know if I knew him.
14 Q.Austin, you called him by his name, that's
15 Austin Flake.He had a car problem and that's why he's
16 late, so we apologize, Sheriff, for the interruption.
17 Now, Sheriff, did -- was Mr. Lovejoy
18 convicted?
19 A.I don't believe he was.
20 Q.Do you agree with that?
21 A.No.
22 Q.Why?
23 A.Because I -- what I hear from my detectives,
24 they had a pretty good -- they had the evidence.
25 Q.What did they say that makes you believe he
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Q.What's the relation?

2 A.I believe that's Dave Trombi's sister.
3 Q.Okay.Do you let them work together?
4 Not that there would be anything wrong
5 with it.
6 A.They don't work together; he's way up there.
7 There's command people underneath him.
8 Q.Now, Dave Trombi is in the Animal Cruelty unit?
9 A.No.
10 Q.What is name of the that unit?
11 A.We call it the Animal Cruelty Unit.
12 Q.Is Dave Trombi part of that?
13 A.He's in charge of all, all enforcement and
14 investigative services for the whole organization.
15 Q.Okay.So he's in charge of enforcing the law
16 for your offices in Maricopa County?
17 A.Yeah, you could call him the enforcement,
18 intelligence.So he's -- and that Animal Cruelty is
19 just one of many units that comes under his command.
20 Q.Was his sister, Marie Trombi, ever serving
21 under his command in the Animal Cruelty Unit, at your
22 office?
23 A.Not directly.
24 Q.Indirectly?
25 A.Yes.Because he's in charge of all of the
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was -- that he shouldn't have been acquitted?

A.I don't remember.But I do know that they did
3 an excellent job.
4 Q.And when you say "they," specify for me, if you
5 would, who that pronoun refers to individually?
6 A.I don't have the names of the detective, but
7 I -- the detectives, if it was, but I believe it was
8 our Animal Cruelty Unit.
9 Q.Who's Dave Trombi?
10 A.He's one of our executive chiefs.
11 Q.So is he part of your command staff?
12 A.Yes.
13 Q.Do you trust him?
14 A.Yes.
15 Q.Is he competent?
16 A.Yes.
17 Q.Is he honest?
18 A.Yes.
19 Q.You don't have any reason to believe that he
20 would ever lie, do you?
21 A.No.
22 Q.Now, who is Marie Trombi?
23 A.She's a detective in the Animal Cruelty.
24 Q.Is Marie Trombi related to David Trombi?
25 A.Yes.
2
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enforcement and intelligence units and patrol units.

Q.I understand.
3 Now, Marie Trombi, have you ever met her?

4 A.Yes.
5 Q.Have you ever worked with her?
6 A.Once again, I'm going to say, I don't work with
7 my detectives.I delegate to the detectives who do the
8 investigation.
9 Q.I understand it and I don't mean to ask you the
10 same question over and over again.That wasn't a
11 really good question.Let me get specific about it.
12 Here's what I meant, Sheriff, by have you
13 ever worked with her, have you ever -- like, for
14 example, has she ever briefed you or your other senior
15 staff on a case that she's working on, if you remember?
16 A.Well, we may have met sometimes at the scene of
17 one of these investigations but that was it.And she's
18 doing the investigation.
19 Q.Was Marie Trombi involved in the Lovejoy
20 investigation?
22 Q.Was David Trombi involved in the Lovejoy
23 investigation?
24 A.I don't know at that time what his position
25 was.
2
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Q.Did Tom Lovejoy sue you, after he was acquitted

for animal cruelty charges, by a jury of his peers?
3 A.I'm not sure it was a jury.I don't have all
4 of the facts.
5 Q.It could have been a judge?
6 A.It could have been a justice of the peace.
7 Q.That's a good point.
8 A.So I'm not sure how that situation occurred.
9 Q.Well, let me rephrase it.
10 Did Tom Lovejoy sue you after he was
11 acquitted for charges of animal cruelty?
12 A.I believe he did.
13 Q.What did you think of that lawsuit?
14 A.That's the way the system works.
15 Q.Well, was it a valid lawsuit or an invalid
16 lawsuit?
17 A.I don't have an opinion.
18 Q.So he sued you and your wife, didn't he?
19 A.Yes.
20 Q.And you don't have an opinion as to whether or
21 not it was a valid or invalid lawsuit, Sheriff?
22 A.I'm not going to comment on the results.I
23 still stand by that my detectives did a good job.
24 Q.So you still stand by what your detectives did?
25 A.They did a good job.
2
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Q.Yeah.Did you agree?

A.No.
3 Q.Did you think it was a good thing or did you
4 think it was a bad thing?Were you for it or were you
5 against it?
6 A.I was against the lawsuit.
7 Q.And were you against the lawsuit settlement?
8 A.It wasn't my decision.
9 Q.Did you make your opinion known that you
10 thought the lawsuit was invalid?
11 A.I'm not sure if I discussed that or my people
12 discussed that with the appropriate officials.
13 Q.Did you read the lawsuit?
14 A.I don't recall.I think we're talking years
15 ago.
16 Q.You're right.
18 Q.Sheriff, you're right, the lawsuit was resolved
19 several years ago.I believe, and I'll check at the
20 break, that it was resolved in 2011.But it could have
21 been 2012, but I'll check.
22 When you're sued, Sheriff Arpaio, do you
23 read the lawsuit?
24 A.Normally I do.
25 Q.And you just don't remember whether or not you
2
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Q.And you stand by that good job, right?

A.Yes.
3 Q.Now did the County pay Mr. Lovejoy several
4 hundred thousand dollars after he sued you and your
5 wife in federal court for false arrest and malicious
6 prosecution?
7 A.I don't know what the charges were.
8 Q.Well, what happened to the lawsuit?
9 A.You said false arrest -- I don't know.I don't
10 know what the charges were, but I do know that that
11 case was settled.
12 Q.Did you approve of the settlement?It was
13 against you.
14 A.I understand.
15 But that's all of my realm.That's up to
16 the county and the judiciary committee to make that
17 decision.
18 Q.I understand, Sheriff, but my question was a
19 little bit more specific than that.
20 Did you approve of the settlement of
21 Mr. Lovejoy's lawsuit against you and your wife?
22 A.What do you mean by "approve," I wrote
23 approved?
24 Q.No.Well -25 A.Or did I agree?
2
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read Mr. Lovejoy's lawsuit?

A.I didn't say either way.I said I don't
3 recall, but I would imagine that I did, but I don't
4 recall.
5 Q.Did you read any of the judge's orders in the
6 lawsuit?
7 A.I don't recall.
8 Q.Now, when Mr. Lovejoy was charged, was he
9 charged with intentional conduct or reckless conduct or
10 negligent conduct or what?
12 Q.Isn't it true that he forgot his police dog in
13 the back of his police vehicle in the summertime here
14 in Arizona and the dog died of some type of heat
15 exposure?
16 A.In general terms, I do recall that, yes.
17 Q.Was it your belief that Officer Lovejoy
18 intentionally left the dog in his police vehicle to die
19 of heat exposure?
20 A.Once again, my detectives have all the facts on
21 it, and the reports were done.And I don't remember
22 all of the facts to answer your question.
23 Q.Have you ever disciplined any of your
24 subordinates for falsely accusing someone of committing
25 a crime?
2
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A.I don't recall doing that.It could have been

2 done by the subordinates or the Internal Affairs but I
3 don't recall.
4 Q.Now, Sheriff, as our sheriff, you have a lot of
5 power, don't you?
6 A.You used the word "power"?
7 Q.Yes.You have a lot of power -8 A.No.I have a lot of jurisdiction to be
9 concerned with in running the third largest sheriff's
10 office in the country.So I don't like the word
11 "power."
12 Q.Well, let me -13 A.I serve the people.I don't use power, in that
14 sense, if you're talking.I don't know what you mean
15 by power.
16 Authority, I would use the word
17 "authority."
18 Q.Okay.
19 A.That's the way I look at it.
20 Q.I understand.
21 A.Authority.
22 Q.I understand.
23 Well, let's use your term.
24 As our sheriff, you have a lot of
25 authority, don't you?
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1
You don't want your subordinates to arrest
2 somebody and take that person's freedom away if that

3 person is innocent, do you?
4 A.I would presume that there's a system where if
5 you want to say take away their freedom by arresting
6 someone and booking them into the jail, I don't agree
7 with your question.
8 If there's an innocent ruling that comes
9 later on, that's not the duties of my detectives.
10 Their duty is to investigate and booking them into jail
11 and what happens later on, is not their interests.
12 Other than, you know, doing the investigation.So
13 you're taking the -- you're saying arresting someone
14 that's innocent.I don't answer the question the way
15 you're trying to give it to me.
16 We arrest people that we have information
17 through good investigations, have probable cause and
18 sometimes you book them into the -- book them, put
19 cuffs on them and put them in jail.Now, what happens
20 after that is a different situation.
21 Q.Your officers have the authority to arrest,
22 correct?
23 A.Yes.
24 Q.And sometimes they exercise that authority,
25 correct?
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A.Yes.
2 Q.And part of that authority is you have the
3 authority to arrest people and put them in jail until
4 they see a judge, right?
5 A.The authority goes down to the arresting
6 officer, that's certified by the State that gives them
7 that authority.
8 Q.But those -- well, your office has the
9 authority to arrest people and incarcerate them until
10 they see a judicial officer, correct?
11 A.Yes.
12 Q.And that's -- the foundation of America,
13 Sheriff, is freedom, right?
14 A.Yes.
15 Q.And incarcerating somebody takes away their
16 freedom, right?
17 A.Yes.
18 Q.And that's super important, right?
19 A.Yes.
20 Q.And you sure don't want your subordinates to
21 take away somebody's freedom if that person is
22 innocent, right?
23 A.Can you -- if that person is innocent, is that
24 what you said?
25 Q.I'll repeat the question, Sheriff.
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A.Yes.
Q.And some of those individuals whom they arrest
3 sometimes are adjudicated to be innocent, correct?
4 A.Yes.
5 Q.One of your officers wouldn't intentionally
6 arrest someone innocent, would they?
7 A.The innocent could come later on in the justice
8 system.
9 Q.Well, would one of your officers intentionally
10 arrest someone who's innocent?
12 THE WITNESS:Once again, if they have a
13 probable cause and the person turns out to be declared
14 innocent by a jury or a judge, I would presume.But
15 they still acted in good faith and did their job.
16 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Now in your many decades in
17 law enforcement, you've read about individuals who were
18 arrested who, in fact, were factually innocent, haven't
19 you?
20 Maybe not arrested by your department, but
21 maybe some other police department?
23 THE WITNESS:I don't -- I don't know -24 that's never come across my system.
25 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Well, okay, let me give you an
2
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example.And it's one that's close to your history,

One that you're certainly not responsible for.
3 Do you remember like the Temple murders
4 here in Phoenix?
5 A.Yes.
6 Q.And your predecessor was in charge of that?
7 A.Yes.
8 Q.And some religious -- some members of a
9 religious group, I think they were Buddhist Monks or
10 something like that apparently were brutally murdered.
11 Do you remember that?
12 A.Yes.
13 Q.And members of your department, not under you,
14 you were a private citizen then, so, please, Sheriff,
15 don't think I'm trying to blame you for this.
17 A.Yes.
18 Q.I'm not trying to blame you for this.You were
19 not the sheriff, it was your predecessor.
20 Your predecessor's subordinates arrested
21 these youths that they thought were guilty of the
22 murders.And, in fact, those kids turned out to be
23 innocent and were subsequently released.
24 You read about that, right?
25 A.Yes.
2
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1
do, experience, supervision, many facets.

Q.Do you learn from mistakes?
3 A.I think we all should learn from mistakes.
4 Q.Including you?
5 A.Yes.
6 Q.Now did you learn anything from your experience
7 in the Lovejoy versus Arpaio case?
8 A.No.
9 Q.Why not?
10 A.I think, what I recall, you're talking about
11 years ago, but I figured this became a situation on
12 legality and the laws and that type of thing.
13 Q.Well, that I understand, Sheriff.But did you
14 learn anything from it?
15 A.No, I didn't learn anything special from it.
16 Q.Have you ever studied the animal cruelty
17 statute?
18 A.I have looked at it now and then.
19 Q.When's the last time you looked at it?
21 Q.What did you do to prepare for your deposition?
22 This deposition today.
23 A.I briefly talked to my lawyer.I believe it
24 was -- let me think now, a couple of days ago.
25 Q.Where?
2
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1
Q.And, in fact, I think you criticized your

predecessor based upon that misadventure.
3 Do you remember that?And your criticisms
4 were valid, I thought.
5 A.I don't remember what my criticism was.
6 Q.But that's an example, Sheriff Arpaio, of
7 sometimes law enforcement officers mistakenly arresting
8 someone who's innocent, right?
9 A.And I think I re-affirmed that several times.
10 They had acted in good faith, did their job, did an
11 investigation, came up with information, but it didn't
12 turn out that way.So that's my answer to your
13 question.
14 Q.I understand.
15 A.And I wasn't involved in that.
16 Q.I know you weren't, Sheriff and I hope I didn't
17 suggest that you were.
18 A.No, it doesn't matter.I'm still saying how
19 law enforcement operates.
20 Q.I understand.
21 Now, Sheriff, you're constantly trying to
22 improve your office's performance, aren't you?
23 A.Yes.
24 Q.How do you do that?
25 A.Training, training, constant training that we
2
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1
A.In my office.
Q.For how long?
3 A.An hour, an hour and a half.
4 Q.And when you say your "lawyer," to whom are you
5 referring?
6 MR. LEONARD:That was me.
7 THE WITNESS:(Witness indicating.)
8 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Is that -- who's your
9 lawyer?
10 A.Actually, I've had so many of them, I'm a
11 little confused.
12 Q.Do you know this guy's name?
13 A.Yeah.
14 Q.What's his name?
15 Do you know his name?
16 A.Wait a minute, it's escaping me, his name.I
17 know I know his name, but right now I can't recall it.
18 MR. LEONARD:He knows.
19 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.
20 A.This is my first time I met my very, very
21 professional excellent attorney.
22 Q.Okay.The first time you met him was the other
23 day?
24 A.I believe it was the other day.
25 Q.Okay.
2
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A.That's why I'm having -- but I've talked to

him, I believe, by telephone.
3 Q.Okay.Now -4 A.It was a while back.
5 Q.-- when you met with him at your offices -- do
6 you keep a schedule of all your meetings?
7 A.No.
8 Q.That's in writing?
9 A.No.
10 Q.So if I wanted to find out how our sheriff, the
11 Sheriff of Maricopa County, spent his day, could I get
12 like a document from your office that like tells me how
13 you spent your day, how you spent your week, like a
14 calendar, like I have on a computer or a hard copy?
15 A.Well, first of all, I don't have computers, I
16 don't have all your iPads, let's get that -- I don't
17 have e-mail, so let's get that straight right away.
18 Q.Yes, sir.
19 A.Okay?
20 Q.Yes.
21 A.But I do have a secretary.
22 Q.What's her name?
23 A.Amy.
24 Q.What's her last name?I'll keep it private.
25 A.Well. . .
2
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1
note what I plan on doing that day.But it doesn't

tell anything because that's just, of course, I had a
3 note that I should be here at 10 o'clock.
4 Q.I understand.
5 Now you met with Mr. Leonard the other
6 day?
7 A.Yes.
8 Q.What day was that?
9 A.I think it was two days ago.
10 Q.So that would have been Tuesday or Monday?
11 A.Two days ago.Today is -12 Q.Tuesday?
13 A.Today is Thursday.So I believe it was
14 Tuesday.
15 Q.Okay.And what time was your meeting?
16 A.I believe it was in the afternoon.
17 Q.Do you remember?
18 A.Maybe 2 o'clock or. . .
19 Q.And how long did the meeting -- when did the
20 meeting end?What time did the meeting end?
21 A.Like I say, I believe it was an hour and a half
22 or maybe two hours.
23 Q.So it ended around 4:00 p.m.?
24 A.To the best of my recollection.
25 Q.Okay.Did you review any documents at that
2
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1
Q.What's her last name, Sheriff?

2 A.You know, I'm trying to think.You got me -3 you know, I've got a good memory.
4 Q.I know.
5 A.Now you're asking me to -6 Q.Sheriff, I'm not trying to embarrass you.If
7 you don't remember, we can move on.
8 Now, Sheriff, if I wanted to find out -9 A.I will tell you -10 Q.-- how you spent your day -11 A.I will tell you that there is a record on what
12 I may do the next week.But it doesn't say everything
13 because I'm a busy guy, things happen during the day.
14 But there would be a record on a meeting maybe that I
15 would be going to and that.But there is no record
16 about nuts and bolts of my office.
17 Q.I understand.
18 Now, Sheriff Arpaio, so you don't have a
19 calendar?
20 A.No.
21 Q.When you go to work in the morning, like how do
22 you know what your schedule is, like whether or not you
23 have appointments on that particular day, for example,
24 with your lawyer Jeff Leonard?
25 A.Because my secretary would give me a little
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1 meeting?
2 A.I think he -- we reviewed a couple.
3 MR. LEONARD:That's a yes-or-no question.
4 THE WITNESS:Yes.
5 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:What documents did you review?
6 MR. LEONARD:Okay.That I'm going to
7 instruct him not to answer.That's -- that's an
8 invasion of my work product.I mean, you can get at it
9 a different way.But to ask what documents I prepared
10 for him to review is an invasion of my work product.
11 That's the Spork versus Peil case.
12 MR. MONTOYA:I don't agree.
13 But you're instructing him not to answer?
14 MR. LEONARD:Yes.
16 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff Arpaio, do you know
17 how a civil lawsuit is commenced?
18 A.I guess someone files it.
19 Q.Someone files a complaint, right?
20 A.I would imagine.
21 Q.Have you ever read the complaint in this
22 lawsuit, the complaint of Austin Flake and Logan Flake,
23 against Maricopa County, Joseph Arpaio and his spouse,
24 that's a technical thing, we're not accusing your
25 spouse of doing anything wrong, as you know, sir, and
Page 26
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1
also it's against your detective, Marie Trombi.Have

you read that lawsuit?
3 A.I believe I did.
4 Q.When?
5 A.Which lawsuit -- which one are talking about?
6 I think there was much -- the one from your office?
7 Q.Well, tell me which ones you've read.
8 A.I don't know.I -9 Q.Tell me which ones you're aware of.
10 A.I remember reading your lawsuit, which, if I
11 recall, was not a long one.
12 Q.Is that the first one that you read?
13 A.Yeah.I think I may have read one that came
14 way back from the other attorney, Wilenchik.
15 Q.Wilenchik?
16 A.Yeah.I don't think he -- he was involved
17 somewhat.
18 Q.Is he a friend of yours?
19 A.He represented me.
20 Q.Did he do a good job?
21 A.Yes.
22 Q.Did you think he was an honest guy?
23 A.In those days, yes.
24 Q.Now you've qualified it, "in those days"?
25 A.Yes.
2
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1
Q.Just tell me what you remember.

A.Using the word that my detective committed
3 perjury.
4 Q.Which detective?
5 A.I believe it was Trombi.
6 Q.David Trombi?
7 A.No, Marie Trombi.And I believe he connected
8 me with that too.That's a different issue that I'll
9 be addressing.But the -- but this just struck me as
10 very interesting.Now, I'm not sure if it was him or
11 his partner, which happens to be his son.But, once
12 again, the tenor of that, I have to say yours is -- I
13 shouldn't say this -- but professional.
14 Q.Well, thank you.I try to be fair.I am an
15 advocate.
16 Now, Sheriff, do you stand by your
17 detective, Marie Trombi?
18 A.Yes.
19 Q.Do you think she did a good job in the
20 investigation?
21 A.Yes.
22 Q.Now, your officers are obliged by the law and
23 also obliged by you, their boss, to tell the truth
24 under oath, correct?
25 A.Yes.
2
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1
Q.And you smiled.Has your opinion on that issue

changed?
3 A.Yes.
4 Q.Why?
5 A.Well, I think he's made some very, very strong
6 statements that I can think of against my people.
7 Q.What has he said?
8 A.I think he questioned the character of my
9 detectives and that's all I'm going to say about that,
10 with strong language.
11 Q.Okay.Now, did you read the original complaint
12 filed by Mr. Wilenchik on behalf of Logan Flake and
13 Austin Flake, those two young folks sitting to my left,
14 against your office and yourself and your detective?
15 A.I may have.I believe this goes way back.
16 Q.What did you think of it?When you read it,
17 what was your reaction?
18 A.Well, I believe there's -- if I can recall,
19 again, there was a lot of information that was not
20 true.
21 Q.What was untrue that you recall about the
22 complaint that you read brought by Logan Flake and
23 Austin Flake against your office and you?
24 A.I can't give you all the facts.I can give you
25 a couple of points that strike out.It would be -2
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1
Q.And are you aware that Mr. Wilenchik claimed

that Ms. Trombi made misstatements to the grand jury
3 regarding Logan Flake and Austin Flake?

4 A.You know, once again, I don't have the nuts and
5 bolts of that.And the only reason I brought -- that I
6 remember was the allegation of perjury.
7 Q.Let me ask you this:21 -- if someone's
8 accused of 21 felony counts by the Maricopa County
9 Attorney, that's something super serious to that
10 person, isn't it?
11 A.Which person?
12 Q.To the accused?If an individual is accused of
13 perpetrating 21 felonies, that is something serious to
14 that accused person, right?
15 A.I can't answer that question.I can't read the
16 minds of people.
17 Q.Well, let me ask it this way, then:You
18 wouldn't recommend 21 felony charges against someone,
19 unless you had very specific and serious evidence
20 supporting those 21 felony counts, would you?
21 A.Just like any investigation, you get to
22 probable cause, you do the investigation, you turn it
23 over to the prosecutor to decide whether they want to
24 further that investigation.
25 (Whereupon, an unknown female enters the
2
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1
deposition at 12:39 p.m.)

UNKNOWN FEMALE:I'm sorry, somebody is
3 here to get car keys.
4 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:What is a felony?
5 A.It's a designation of a violation of the law.
6 Q.Is it a trivial violation or a serious
7 violation?
8 A.It depends, Class 6, Class 5, but it is -- you
9 know, it depends on which one you're talking about,
10 when you look at the law, the different phases of what
11 a felony is.But I'm sure it's something that would be
12 important to anyone if they look at it that way.
13 Q.Okay.This is a super simple question,
14 Sheriff.It's not a trick question.
15 Isn't it true that a felony charge is
16 always a serious charge?
18 THE WITNESS:In general terms, regardless
19 of what part?
20 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:If it's a felony, it's
21 serious, right?
23 THE WITNESS:Yeah.Yeah.I think
24 misdemeanors can be serious too.But, yeah.
25 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:A felony is more serious than
2
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1
Q.And you can also be sent away to prison, right?

A.Yes.
3 Q.Now, someone who's accused of 21 felony
4 violations of the animal cruelty statute in Arizona
5 could be sent to prison, right?
6 A.Yes.
7 Q.And that would be a very serious thing, right?
8 A.Yes.And people -- misdemeanors can be sent to
9 jail too.
10 Q.Yeah.But not for as long, right?
11 A.I don't know.
12 Q.You don't know?
13 A.That's up to the judicial system.
14 Q.Isn't it true, Sheriff Arpaio, that if you're
15 convicted of a misdemeanor, the most under the law that
16 you can serve is six months and under?
17 A.Up to a year, I believe.
18 Q.It's up to a year, in your -19 A.Yeah.
20 Q.Okay.Okay.
21 And felony, what's the limit for that?
22 A.It could be a year or on.
23 Q.It could be longer?
24 A.Yes.
25 Q.Now, if someone were convicted of a 21 felony
2
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1
a misdemeanor, right?
A.As far as sentencing goes, yes.
3 Q.Well, isn't it true, Sheriff Arpaio, that if
4 you're convicted of a felony in the state of Arizona,
5 you can't even vote anymore?
6 A.That's correct.
7 Q.And isn't it true that if you're convicted of a
8 felony in Arizona, you can't serve on a jury anymore?
9 A.Yes.
10 Q.I've read a little bit about your background
11 and it makes me think of ancient Rome and ancient
12 Greece.
13 Isn't it true that in the ancient world
14 the two hallmarks of citizenship were the right to vote
15 and the right to serve on a jury; is that true?
16 MR. LEONARD:Object to form and
17 foundation.
18 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Is that your understanding,
19 that two foundations of citizens are the right to vote
20 and right to be a juror?
21 MR. LEONARD:Form and foundation.
22 THE WITNESS:That's one of them, yes.
23 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:So if you're felon, some of
24 your rights of citizenship are taken away, right?
25 A.Yes.
2
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violations of the cruelty to animal statute in Arizona,

how long could they be sent to prison?
3 A.I don't know.That's up to the judicial
4 system.
5 Q.It could be a long time though, right?
6 A.Yes.
7 Q.Now, does your office recommend, make
8 recommendations to the Maricopa County Attorney's
9 Office?
10 A.Yes.
11 Q.Isn't it true that you recommended that Logan
12 Flake and Austin Flake be prosecuted for 21 violations
13 of the Arizona animal cruelty statute?
14 A.My detectives did, that were knowledgeable
15 about the case.
16 Q.They recommended it?
17 A.Yes.
18 Q.Okay.Okay.Now, we have it that your
19 detectives recommended that Logan Flake and Austin
20 Flake be prosecuted for 21 violations of the animal
21 cruelty statute, I got that.But I have a different
22 question, Sheriff Arpaio, and it's a simple question.
23 It is not a trick question.
24 I understand you testified what your
25 subordinates did.Now I want to ask you what you did.
2
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Did you recommend that Logan and Austin

Flake be prosecuted for 21 felony counts of animal
3 cruelty?
4 A.My detectives handling this case recommended
5 that along -- I believe, County attorneys that they
6 were in constant contact with.
7 Q.But you didn't recommend it?
8 A.No, I didn't recommend it.
9 Q.Were you against it?
10 A.I mean I'm not against it.But, no, that was
11 their decision, on any investigation.
12 Q.And you were separate and apart from that
13 decision?
14 A.I didn't contest it.This was their
15 recommendation.They know the case.I didn't know the
16 case.
17 Q.So it was their recommendation, not yours?
18 A.Yeah, it was theirs and I believe they had
19 County attorneys working with them.
20 MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Why don't we take a
21 lunch break right now.
22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:This ends Media 2 in
24 record at 12:46 p.m.
25 (Whereupon, a 54-minute lunch recess ensued
2
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Press conferences that is, Sheriff?

A.I don't -- I only remember one.I'm not sure,
3 but I don't -- I don't remember.I know of one that I
4 remember.
5 Q.Why did you give that one that you remember?
6 A.I remembered it because there was some
7 documentation that I gave a press conference.
8 Q.Why did you give it?
9 A.To best of my recollection, there was a lot of
10 interest in this case that you're -- was it the Gilbert
11 24?
12 MS. LOGAN FLAKE:23.
13 THE WITNESS:Or it's the Gilbert -- I'm
14 trying to remember the. . .
15 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:It was the Gilbert something?
16 A.Yeah.
17 Q.Some dogs that died?
18 A.Yeah.I think -19 Q.How many?
20 A.I think 21, if that's what we're talking about.
21 Q.That's what we're talking about.
22 A.Yeah, okay.
23 So there's a lot of public interest and I
24 believe that Gilbert whatever it was and I think there
25 was even demonstrations.So I thought it fit that the
2
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from 12:46 p.m. to 1:40 p.m.)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:The begins Media 3 in
4 at 1:40 p.m.
5 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff, good afternoon.
6 A.Good afternoon.
7 Q.Did you have a good break?
8 A.Great food downstairs.
9 Q.What did you have?
10 A.Seafood salad without the shrimp.
11 Q.Well, I'll have to tell them you enjoyed it.I
12 really like those people, they're -13 A.They're nice people down there.
14 Q.They're very nice, yeah.And they work really
15 hard.
16 Sheriff, do you want to change or
17 supplement any of the answers that you've given to my
18 questions up to now?
20 Q.Now, do you remember giving any press
21 conferences regarding the death of over a dozen dogs
22 out there in Gilbert at a place that was doing business
23 as Green Acre, I guess?
24 A.Yes.
25 Q.How many did you give?
2
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Sheriff should respond to a lot of the questions of the

media.So I got, as I say, I got them all together and
3 had a press conference.
4 Q.Did something happen specifically that prompted
5 you to have a press conference when you did?
6 A.I think at the time, there was a lot of
7 demonstrations going on by that group.And a lot of
8 questions was asked of me, what the status was and so
9 on, so I had a press conference.
10 Q.Isn't it true that the reason why you had the
11 press conference when you did is because you were
12 announcing to the public that your office was
13 recommending 21 felony counts of animal cruelty against
14 Austin Flake and Logan Flake?
15 A.That could have been one of the reasons, to
16 bring this situation up to date.And that may have
17 been a reason that we did it too.
18 Q.When did you learn that your subordinates were
19 recommending that Austin Flake and Logan Flake be
20 prosecuted for 21 counts of felony cruelty to animals?
21 A.I don't remember.
22 Q.Did you approve of the recommendation?It was
23 a recommendation -- did they unilaterally do it or did
24 they have to get your approval first?
25 A.They did not have to get my approval.As I
2
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mentioned several times, they make the decision, my

detectives.Now, I -- of course, I knew that they were
3 recommending it, but I didn't second guess them.
4 Q.Did you agree with it?
5 A.I went by what they recommended.
6 Q.Okay, thank you for that.That is informative,
7 so I'm not trivializing your answer.But my question
8 was a little bit different.
9 Did you approve of their decision to
10 recommend the prosecution of the Flakes on 21 felony
11 counts of animal cruelty?
12 A.Once again -13 MR. LEONARD:Object to form.
14 THE WITNESS:Once again, they made a
15 decision.I didn't oppose their decision.
16 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff, once again, I
17 understand you didn't oppose it, but that's not my
18 question.
19 Did you approve it?
20 A.I did not officially approve it.
21 Q.Okay.Why not?
22 A.Because on all these investigations, I let my
23 detectives make the recommendation.I'm not -- I don't
24 know all the facets of a case to make decisions.I
25 rely on my subordinates to do the investigation that
2
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Office will review our evidence.We're recommending 21
2 felony charges, several misdemeanor charges.I didn't

3 include the two rabbits that we also filed for felony
4 charges that happened recently about two weeks ago,"
5 period, unquote.
6 Do you remember saying that to the press?
7 A.What was the -- well, I don't have that in
8 front of me.You're asking me information today of
9 what I may have said, what, two years ago, three, four
10 years ago.I've got a good memory.It's not that
11 good.
12 Q.Okay.Well, let me refresh it.Do you want to
13 watch -- did you watch any videos in preparation for
14 your testimony today?
15 A.No.
16 Q.Have you ever watched a video of your press
17 conference regarding Logan Flake and Austin Flake and
18 Logan's parents the Hugheses?
19 A.The whole press conference?
20 Q.Yes.
21 A.No.
22 Q.Do you know how long it was?
23 A.No.
24 Q.Would you surprise to you learn that it was 22
25 minutes and 9 seconds long?
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has the knowledge of all the facts.

Q.Do you stand by their recommendation?
3 A.Yes, I stand by it.
4 Q.So where you sit there afternoon, you stand by
5 your subordinates' recommendation to recommend the
6 prosecution of Justin -- of Austin Flake and Logan
7 Flake for 21 felony counts of animal cruelty?
8 A.I have confidence in my detectives and that was
9 their recommendation and I stand by it.
10 Q.Okay.But did you think -- were you confident
11 that you had the proper evidence to support those
12 charges?
13 A.Once again, I'm not involved in the nuts and
14 bolts.It's my detectives that had that knowledge.
15 Q.Okay.But once again, you're not answering my
16 question.I understand that you're not involved in the
17 nuts and bolts, but that's not the question.
18 Did you have confidence that there was
19 evidence to support their recommendation?
20 A.I have confidence in my experts on animal
21 cruelty.And if that was their decision, I abided by
22 their decision.
23 Q.Okay.Did you ever announce to the press,
24 quote, "I'm very confident that we have the proper
25 evidence.And, once again, the County Attorney's
2
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A.I would -- I don't know.I don't keep track

how many minutes.
3 Q.Sheriff, is that you?
4 A.Yes.
5 (Video played.)
6 THE WITNESS:Is this the 22 minutes that
7 we're watching?
8 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:We're not going to watch it
9 all.But I'm going to ask you questions, so if you
10 don't remember -11 A.Okay.All right.
12 So we're going to watch this for 22
13 minutes?
14 MR. LEONARD:You could just as easily put
15 the transcript in front of him.
16 THE WITNESS:Can I have the transcript?
17 I didn't even know you had 22 minutes.
18 You asked if I watched it, I'm watching it now.
19 (Video stopped.)
20 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Did you listen -- were you
21 able to listen to that?And we're getting you the
22 transcript.
23 A.I just had a question.
24 Q.Please.I'll try to answer.
25 A.Because you asked me, is that a 22-minute of my
2
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complete press conference.

Q.Yes.It's not 22 minutes, Sheriff Arpaio.
3 It's 22 minutes and nine seconds.It's pretty long, I
4 think.But that's just my opinion.
5 A.Well, I'm going to answer your question.When
6 you asked if I saw it, I don't recall.I don't even
7 know where you got it.But I don't recall looking at
8 that.
9 Q.Is that you?
10 A.I know that.
11 Q.And that was -12 A.I'm saying, I don't recall.
14 But you don't deny that's you and that you
15 said all those things, do you?
16 A.No, I'm not denying that.
17 Q.Okay.I didn't think you would.And we're
18 bringing you the transcript.
19 But I'm a little bit confused, Sheriff
20 Arpaio, because you said you didn't recommend that
21 Logan Flake and Austin Flake be prosecuted for 21
22 felony counts, you said that your subordinates did.
23 But in your press conference, and here's a
24 transcript of it.
25 MR. LEONARD:Are you going to mark this?
2
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Q.-- right there?

A.Okay, thank you.
3 Q.And starting with line 21.
4 A.Uh-huh.
5 Q.It reads, quote, "So we finally completed the
6 investigation.We turned it over to the County
7 Attorney for review and don't forget that they had to
8 make sure they had the proper information and evidence
9 to prosecute.So we're recommending to the county
10 attorney that 21 felony charges be pursued against the
11 four suspects in this investigation.The four targets
12 that we started out with and I'm sure that office will
13 review the evidence and we'll see what happens.I'm
14 very confident that we have the proper evidence.And,
15 once again, the County Attorney's Office will review
16 our evidence.We're recommending 21 felony charges,
17 several misdemeanor charges.I didn't include the two
18 rabbits that we also filed for felony charges that
19 happened recently about two weeks ago," period,
20 unquote.
21 Did I read that right?
22 A.Yes.I mean, that's what the transcript says.
23 Q.Did you say that in the press conference that I
24 just showed you?
25 A.If this the same as that, then I would admit
2
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MR. MONTOYA:Yes.
2 Why don't you mark this as Exhibit 1,
3 please.
4 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number 1 was
5 marked for identification.)
6 THE WITNESS:So what page are we on?
7 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff Arpaio, it starts on
8 page 2, sir.
9 MR. LEONARD:Steve, since this is the
10 first deposition taken in this case and the first
11 exhibit that's been marked.Can we establish a
12 protocol going forward that we mark all the exhibits
13 serially and not start over at each deposition?
14 MR. MONTOYA:Yes.
15 MR. LEONARD:Okay.
16 MR. MONTOYA:Thank you.
17 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff, let me direct your
18 attention to page 2, line 21, which reads -19 MR. LEONARD:Do you mean page two at the
20 top or internal page 2?
21 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Internal page 2.Do you
22 understand that, Sheriff?
23 A.Okay, I got the top.Okay, page 2?
24 Q.Page 2, sir -25 A.Right here.
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that I said that.

Q.But do you see where it says, twice, "So we're
3 recommending to the County Attorney that 21 felony
4 charges be pursued against the four suspects in this
5 investigation."And then again, "We're recommending 21
6 felony charges, several misdemeanor charges.I'm very
7 confident that we have the proper evidence."
8 You're using pronouns of we, meaning us
9 and I, you're not saying that you weren't part of the
10 decision-making process, you're identifying yourself as
11 the one who's very confident that we have the proper
12 evidence, that we're recommending 21 felony counts.Do
13 you deny that you were a part of the team at the
14 Maricopa County Sheriff's Office to recommend 21 felony
15 charges against Austin Flake and Logan Flake?
16 A.Well, the semantics of "we," could mean that
17 "we," means the Sheriff's Office.
18 Number two, when I said "we," I was also
19 including the County Attorney, not the County Attorney,
20 the deputy county attorneys that had been working with
21 my detectives doing this case.So when I was saying
22 "we," I am including the County Attorney officials.So
23 that's a semantic.And when I say "we," I'm saying my
24 office.
25 But, once again, I said I don't get
2
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involved the in nuts and bolts.I let my subordinates

make the recommendation.So if I said "we," we means
3 others than just my detectives.
4 Q.Did you go out to the alleged crime scene
5 personally?
6 A.I think I've been there, yes.I don't remember
7 the time frame.
8 Q.So you think you've been there or you have been
9 there?
10 A.Well, I know I've been there, but I don't
11 remember the time frame.
12 Q.How many times were you there?
13 A.I didn't count them.
14 Q.It was more than once, right?
15 A.I believe -16 MR. LEONARD:Don't interrupt him, please.
17 THE WITNESS:I believe at one time when
18 they had people praying for the animals and, of course,
19 I showed up there.And there may have been another
20 time.I believe when the investigation was in progress
21 I showed up.
22 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:So you went all the way -- is
23 your office in Downtown Phoenix?
24 A.Yes.
25 Q.And you drove all the way to Gilbert to the
2
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1
A.Yeah, basically.
Q.So -3 A.I may have talked to some of the victims, if
4 they showed up.I don't recall.
5 Q.You talked to some reporters too, right?
6 A.If they were there, yes.
7 Q.Were there reporters there, do you remember
8 that?
9 A.I don't remember.But there's a possibility
10 they were.
11 Q.They were, because I found it on YouTube?
12 A.Okay.
13 Q.And you were there when the search warrant was
14 enforced at the Hugheses' residence, were you not?
16 Q.Okay.Whenever -- you guys have sign-in sheets
17 to record who goes to enforce a search warrant, right?
18 A.A sign-up sheet?
19 Q.Yeah.Like that it let's -- you know, it
20 let's -- you know, it's a record of everyone from your
21 office who was at particular place, right?
22 A.I don't know if we sign up every time they go
23 out on the street.
24 Q.How long were you out there the first time?
2
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1
purported crime scene?

2 A.I drive all the way to Gila Bend on crime
3 scenes so I don't know why Gilbert is -4 Q.Why did you go out there the first time that
5 you went out there?If you were aren't involved in the
6 nuts and bolts of law enforcement at the Maricopa
7 County Sheriff's Office, why did you drive all the way
8 over there to a crime scene that didn't even involve a
9 human?
10 A.That did not involve a human?
11 Q.Yeah, a human hadn't been murdered?
12 A.I go -13 Q.A child hadn't been murdered?
14 A.I go to Yuma in situations too, for your
15 information.
16 Q.I would imagine.
17 A.One of the reasons I went out there there was
18 so much interest, especially in that area there,
19 demonstrations and what have you, so I thought it was
20 appropriate for the Sheriff to show up.
21 Q.What did you do when you showed up?
22 A.I didn't do hardly anything.I let my
23 detectives do their investigation.I didn't get
24 involved in any investigation.
25 Q.So you just stood around?
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Q.And you went there because there -- you wanted

to talk to people?
3 A.I go to many crime scenes.
4 Q.And were you supervising?
5 A.No.
6 Q.So you weren't participating in the enforcement
7 of this search warrant, were you?
8 A.No.
9 Q.And you weren't supervising, were you?
10 A.No.
11 Q.You were just talking to reporters, right?
12 A.No.As the Sheriff, sometimes I do show up and
13 at least let the public and even my own officers know
14 that the Sheriff is the Sheriff, not that I make any
15 decisions.But I think it might be a little
16 comfortable for my people on any type of crime to know
17 the Sheriff is there to support them.
18 Q.Okay.And did you learn anything at the crime
19 scene?
21 Q.Did you go -- did you look in the area where
22 the dogs died?
23 A.You know, I don't recall if I did that.
24 Q.Did you talk to anybody?
25 A.To anybody?
2
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1
Q.Yeah.
A.There was a lot of people out there, if I
3 recall.I don't remember if I talked to some of the
4 victims, I may have.
5 Q.The victims of what?
6 A.Of the owners of the dogs, I'm sorry.
7 Q.What did you think when you got out there?
8 Were you appalled?
9 A.I've been in law enforcement 55 years.I think
10 I'm a professional.I've seen everything.I don't let
11 my personal feelings interfere with how I do my job,
12 who people are or whatever, that doesn't enter how I do
13 my job.
14 Q.Are you a supporter of Senator Jeff Flake?
15 A.What do you mean --- what do you mean a
16 "supporter," what does that mean?
17 Q.I'll tell you.
18 In this press conference, and you have a
19 transcript in front of you, sir, reflecting that.
20 You're asked about Senator -- United
21 States Senator Jeff Flake, and you said that you saw
22 him at a victory celebration for then gubernatorial -23 governor elect Doug Ducey, right?
24 A.Yes.
25 Q.Do you remember that?
2
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1
Q.But you are -- you're partisan, aren't you?

A.I enforce all of the laws regardless of what
3 their political aspects are.And I'm sure we can prove
4 that one.
5 Q.How could we prove that?
6 A.Just go look at the thousands of people that we
7 arrest and see how many have Ds or Rs next to them.
8 Q.Okay.You've actually launched an
9 investigation against the president of the United
10 States, haven't you?
11 A.Which one are you talking about?
12 Q.I'm talking about the current president of the
13 United States, that would be Barack Obama?
14 A.Which investigation are you talking about?
15 Q.How many have you launched?
16 A.Well, I know I have sued him and I know I had
17 launched an investigation three years ago.
18 Q.And what were you -- what were you -- were you
19 investigating him for a crime?
20 A.Yes.
21 Q.What crime was that?
22 A.Fraudulent documents.
23 Q.Okay.And did he try to -- what do you mean
24 "fraudulent documents"?What did he do that was a
25 fraudulent document?
2
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1
A.Yeah, I remember the governor being elected

governor.
3 Q.Yeah, and you supported him, didn't you?
4 A.Yes.
5 Q.Let me ask you a question:A sheriff is not
6 supposed to be -- is the sheriff a political position?
7 A.Yes.
8 Q.Okay.So a sheriff chooses sides, Democrat
9 accurate versus Republican, Libertarian versus
10 Socialist, Green Party Member versus Anarchist.The
11 sheriff is a partisan office?
13 THE WITNESS:Yes.
14 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:If you're partisan -15 A.But not partisan -- what do you mean
16 "partisan"?
17 Q.Partisan, what the word suggests, affiliated
18 with parties.Partisan, Democrat versus Republican,
19 Socialist versus Libertarian?
20 A.In order to be a political figure, you have
21 belong to some party.
22 Q.Well, have you ever heard of a non-partisan
23 political election?For example, probably when you ran
24 for the city council?
25 A.Yes.
2
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1
A.Well, when you have a fraudulent birth

certificate, I think that's a violation of the law, no
3 matter who it is and what the document is.
4 Q.And where did this alleged crime occur, Sheriff
5 Arpaio?
6 A.It could have been Hawaii.It could have been
7 Washington.It could have been Arizona.
8 Q.So you're saying that President Barack Obama
9 could have created a fraudulent document in Arizona?
10 A.It would pertain to an interest of Arizona.
11 Q.How?
12 A.Because if you are not a legitimate president
13 or if there's a problem, I think it would affect the
14 voter situation here in Arizona.
15 Q.You know, Sheriff, I'm trying to be fair to
16 you, but I'm very confused now.I thought you were the
17 Sheriff of Maricopa County and as our sheriff, that you
18 were supposed to enforce the law in Maricopa County
19 regarding violations that transpired in Maricopa
20 County.
21 An alleged animal cruelty, assault and
22 battery, drug dealing, serial killers in Maricopa
23 County.Barack Obama wasn't born in Maricopa County,
24 was he?
25 A.I haven't come up with that information.I'm
2
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1
going to say it again, the people that I represent, and

2 I do report to the people, came to me, many of them:
3 Sheriff, you are our sheriff, we have information about
4 a fraudulent document, called a birth certificate that
5 affects the election, even in Arizona.
6 And I'm not a legal guy, that could affect
7 -- that could even be a criminal offense here.I'm not
8 going to get into all of the legal points.But since
9 you brought it up, it didn't cost the taxpayers any
10 money.
11 Q.Who paid for it?
12 A.It was a volunteer posse that did this
13 investigation, so it wasn't something you or the
14 taxpayers had to pay for.
15 Q.But they did it under the authority of the
16 Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, did they not?
17 A.Yes.
18 Q.So you gave your official imprimatur to it,
19 right?
20 A.Yes.
21 Q.Your official stamp?
22 A.Yes.
23 Q.And you think that was appropriate?
24 A.Yes.
25 Q.Are you proud of that?
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1
Q.Well, then how do you know it's ongoing?

2 A.Because I know it's ongoing.
3 Q.Who's conducting it?
4 A.But I don't have all the details.I don't have
5 all of the details right now.
6 Q.Who's conducting it?
7 A.I have investigators free of charge, no costs
8 to the taxpayers.
9 Q.Who are they?
10 A.It's my volunteer posse member.
11 Q.Okay.What's his name?Or her name?
12 A.Well, Mike Zullo.
13 Q.Mike Zullo?
14 A.Yes.
15 Q.How do you spell that?
16 A.Z-u-l-l-o.
17 Q.Is Mike Zullo a law enforcement officer?
18 A.He's a posse member, which has authority under
19 the constitution of the sheriff.
20 Q.Is he POST certified?
21 A.No.He gets his authority from the Sheriff.
22 Q.You know, Sheriff, I'm not kidding you, stop
23 that.
24 A.No you're asking me the questions.I'm -25 Q.Stop that, Sheriff.
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1
A.I don't get proud of my investigations.I do

what I feel is right.I don't go home and look in the
3 mirror.I think I've been a professional guy for 55
4 years.So I enforce all the laws.
5 Q.Your -6 A.And, by the way, that investigation is not done
7 yet.
8 Q.Oh, it's still ongoing?
9 A.You asked me the question, how many times did I
10 investigate the president.
11 Q.Okay.So tell me the status of that
12 investigation.
13 A.I'm not going to -- I don't have the current
14 status right now.
15 Q.Well, what's your -- you're the one who brought
16 it up?
17 A.No, I'm saying that I don't -18 Q.You said the -19 A.No, I -20 Q.You said the investigation was still -21 A.Yeah, okay.
22 Q.-- ongoing?
23 A.Right, okay.
24 Q.What's going on?
25 A.I don't have the current status.
2
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1
MR. LEONARD:Well - THE WITNESS:You opened the -- you opened

3 the door, and I'm giving you -4 MR. LEONARD:Wait, wait, stop, stop.
5 I'm going to object to the form.You're
6 not asking him a question.You want to get into an
7 argument with him, do it somewhere else.
8 MR. MONTOYA:I'm just telling him -9 THE WITNESS:You opened the door -10 MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff, that is -11 THE WITNESS:-- and I'm trying to be
12 honest and answer your question, okay.
13 MR. LEONARD:Steve, if you're done with
14 your questions, we can wrap it up and go home.
15 MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Okay.Just one
16 second.
17 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:No, I'm just telling you what
18 you're doing is crazy and you should stop.
19 A.I won't even respond to your -20 MR. LEONARD:Don't respond -21 THE WITNESS:-- comment.
22 MR. LEONARD:Don't respond to that,
23 there's no question pending.
24 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Now, when you told -- in this
25 press conference, Sheriff Arpaio, when you announced,
2
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1
"I'm very confident" -- quote, "I'm very confident that
2 we have the proper evidence," unquote, what evidence

3 were you talking about?
4 A.I'm going by what my detectives accomplished
5 during their investigation.They had the nuts and
6 bolts already.I defend my people.I have confidence
7 in them.I don't have to know everything that's going
8 on.
9 Q.Okay.Can you specify any fact that would fall
10 into the category of the -- in the realm of the
11 evidence that you were "very confident" that we had.
12 I'm reading from page 3, lines 5 through 6.
13 A.I said, "I'm very confident at the proper
14 evidence."
15 Q.Yeah.
16 A.I'm confident what my people have come up with
17 during the course of the investigation.
18 Q.I understand that, Sheriff Arpaio.Now I'm
19 asking you to specify what that evidence was?
20 A.I'm not going to specify.I said, I'm
21 confident they know what the evidence is.They're the
22 ones that did the investigation.And I have confidence
23 in my detectives how they do the investigation that
24 they -- and when they obtain the evidence, that's all.
25 Q.Okay.So you can't tell me -- you can't
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never a former.
2 THE WITNESS:I'm the recipient of the

3 Silver Beaver award, if you want to talk about -- which
4 is the highest award.
5 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:For the Boy Scouts?
6 A.Yes.
7 Q.Okay.Congratulations to you.
8 A.Thank you.
9 Q.I respect that.
10 A.And the nice lady was waving at me when you
11 made your comment, but that's okay.
12 Q.Well -13 A.I don't know what that means.
14 MS. LOGAN FLAKE:Well, I was -15 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.You know, the thing
16 about it is that when you're accused of 21 felonies,
17 that kind of really kicks your life to the curb.So if
18 they seem upset, it's because they are, Sheriff.Can
19 you understand that?
20 A.Yes.
21 Q.You've been -- you believe that you've been -22 have you ever been falsely accused of misconduct?
23 A.Very seldom other than sometimes in frivolous
24 lawsuits.
25 Q.Okay.Isn't it true that you were accused of
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1
specify one shred of evidence that gave rise to your

confidence?
3 A.No.
4 Q.So you recommended 21 felony counts of animal
5 cruelty against a 20-year-old young lady and young man
6 who had just turned 21 years old, without being able to
7 specify one fact supporting that evidence?
8 A.Well -9 MR. LEONARD:Wait, wait, wait.
10 Object to the form.That isn't what he
11 said at all.You're asking him for facts today versus
12 what he said two years ago.
13 MR. MONTOYA:Excuse me.I'm not asking
14 you -- you can save your speeches for the court.I'm
15 asking Sheriff Arpaio.
16 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Can you name any fact?What
17 did they do that would cause them to -- you to believe,
18 you to be very confident that they had perpetrated 21
19 felonies?What did they do, Sheriff?
20 A.Who is "they"?
21 Q."They," you see that young blond lady right
22 there?You see that young man right there?He's a
23 former Eagle Scout, by the way.
24 MR. AUSTIN FLAKE:Current.
25 MR. MONTOYA:Current, thank you.You're
2
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1
racially profiling Hispanics in Maricopa County?

A.Me or my office?
3 Q.You and your office.
4 A.Yeah, we were accused.
5 Q.Okay.Do you believe it was a true accusation
6 or a false one?
7 A.I don't believe that it was true.But that's
8 another matter going back to 2007.I'm not going to
9 get into that, as you understand.
10 Q.I understand, Sheriff.
11 But all I'm asking you is -- you've been,
12 in your view, falsely accused of something, it was
13 hurtful to be falsely accused, wasn't it?
14 A.Yes.
15 Q.See, if they seem hurt, it's because they are.
16 A.I understand.
17 Q.Now, the statute, what statute did they violate
18 that caused you to get up in front of the media that
19 anyone in the world can witness on YouTube, all 22
20 minutes and nine seconds of it, to tell you to tell the
21 world that you are recommending 21 felony charges and
22 several misdemeanor charges against these two kids?
24 THE WITNESS:Once again, I stand by the
25 evidence and my detectives who did a very intensive
2
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1
investigation.
2 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:What law did they violate,

3 Sheriff Arpaio?
5 THE WITNESS:There were many aspects.
6 I'm not going into all of them.I don't have them
7 before me.But we can talk about abandonment.We can
8 talk about not feeding them, not giving them food, in a
9 9-by-12 room with 28 dogs.I mean, all that can be
10 talked about.But that's something that the detectives
11 investigated.
12 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Was there a specific law that
13 you were accusing them of violating?
15 THE WITNESS:I don't have that knowledge
16 right now.
17 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:You don't know what law?
18 A.I said there is a cruelty law about
19 abandonment, lack of water, lack of food, lack of
20 medical situation.
21 Q.Okay.So are you claiming that Justin -- that
22 Austin and Logan didn't give them food, didn't give the
23 dogs food?
25 THE WITNESS:I'm not claiming anything.
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1
Q.How could I find out whether -- is there any

record as to who advised you of these 21 felony counts
3 before you announced them against these two young
4 people to the entire world and maybe even the universe?
6 THE WITNESS:Not that I know of.
7 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Do you think this is funny?
8 A.Well, I -9 MR. LEONARD:Object to form.
10 THE WITNESS:I think the universe is
11 somewhat funny.
12 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Did you think that
13 Logan Flake had perpetrated 21 felonies against
14 animals?
15 A.I'm going to say it again, I rely on my
16 detectives that do the investigation.
17 Q.When you rely on someone, do you first ask them
18 to give you some background?Or do you just -- do they
19 tell you:Oh, that person's a murderer.Do you ask:
20 Why, what did he do?
22 THE WITNESS:I think I just said about
23 the dogs, that were locked in a 9-by-12.I knew that.
24 I was told that.I didn't investigate it.My
25 detectives did.But, of course, I had the information
2
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I'm going by what the detectives revealed in their
2 investigation and was sent to the County Attorney for,

3 I believe, indictments and so on.
4 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Did your detectives tell you
5 that Austin and Logan failed to feed the dogs?
6 A.I don't recall who told me that.But someone
7 had to advise me or somewhat about that, in a general
8 term.
9 Q.Okay.So you had to be advised about something
10 like that in a general way?
11 A.I wasn't doing the investigation.
12 Q.I know.But you were advised of it, you just
13 said?
14 A.Yes.
15 Q.And you don't remember who advised you?
16 A.I said in general terms, I would believe that
17 the detectives let me know, you know.
18 Q.Let you know -19 A.Before the press conference.
20 Q.Marie Trombi was at the press conference,
21 wasn't she?
22 A.I don't know.
23 Q.Did Marie Trombi advise you before the press
24 conference?
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1 of some of the situation that had occurred in the
2 house.That's one of them.
3 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:What information did you have?
4 A.That's one of them.About the dogs being in a
5 9-by-12 room.
6 Q.Okay.How big are your cells over at the
7 County Jail?
8 A.In the jail?
9 Q.Yes.
10 A.The cell.Almost the same.
11 Q Okay.
12 A.I didn't measure it, but. . .
13 Q.Has your office been sued for overcrowding at
14 the Maricopa County Jail?
15 A.Maybe 30, 40 years ago, before I put up the
16 tents.But, no, I don't recall for overcrowding.
17 Maybe -- are you talking about overcrowding in a cell?
18 Q.Yeah.
20 Q.You're claiming -21 A.I really don't have any problem with that.
22 Q.You're claiming that these animals were
23 overcrowded in a 9-by-12 room.You put your prisoners
24 in rooms about 9-by-12, don't you?
25 A.We only put one or two.We don't put 28
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1
prisoners in a 9-by-12 cell.

Q.Some of your prisoners are bigger than small
3 dogs, aren't they?
4 A.Some are, yes.
5 Q.Okay.So are you saying that the 21 felony
6 counts were exclusively predicated upon putting dogs in
7 a 9-by-12 room, is that it?Was there anything else?
9 THE WITNESS:I think there was talk.
10 Once again, I don't know all of the nuts and bolts.
11 But I think there was talk about food, water, that type
12 of thing.
13 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Talk about food, water,
14 that type of thing, okay.What talk was there about
15 food?
16 A.I don't recall what instance that was brought
17 to my attention and who did it.But that's one of the
18 things that I heard.
19 Q.Can you remember any -- well, is it a crime -20 what about the talk about food constituted a felony?
22 THE WITNESS:If we're talking about
23 cruelty to animals -24 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:No, I'm talking about your 21
25 felony counts against those two young people right over
2
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1
THE WITNESS:I'm talking as the person

who represents this office in that situation.
3 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Well, not only do you
4 represent the office, you're in charge of the office,
5 right?
6 A.Yes.
7 Q.And before you get up there and tell the world
8 that you're very confident that you have the proper
9 evidence to support 21 felony charges, don't you want
10 to have some facts that assure you that the people that
11 you're accusing are guilty?
13 You can ask the same question over and
14 over again -15 MR. MONTOYA:You know, you need to stop
16 lecturing me.
17 MR. LEONARD:Do I -- I'm not lecturing
18 you, I'm objecting.
19 MR. MONTOYA:Well, that's not an
20 objection.Objection is objection, form -- we don't -21 MR. HILLER:Only in state court.
22 MR. MONTOYA:Oh, now there are two -23 okay, one of you has to be quiet.You can choose
24 which.
25 MR. LEONARD:Go ahead.
2
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1
there.
2 A.Well, that would be -3 MR. LEONARD:Object to form.
4 THE WITNESS:That would be something that
5 the County Attorney would determine, felonies versus
6 misdemeanors.
7 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Do you recommend charges
8 against innocent people?
9 A.No.
10 Q.That would be wrong, wouldn't it?
11 A.If we knew that they were innocent, yes.
12 Q.Isn't it true that before you recommend -13 isn't it true that before your -- you're in charge of
14 your office, right, the buck stops with you, right?
15 A.Yes.
16 Q.Now, Sheriff, before your office recommends
17 multiple felonies against someone, you, sir, you want
18 to be assured that the person is probably guilty,
19 right?
20 A.I don't get involved.Once again, when my
21 investigators refer cases for prosecution normally.
22 Q.Well, you get involved when the cameras are
23 rolling.Your investigators aren't up here talking,
24 are they?
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1
Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Don't you want to have some

evidence before you parade in front of the cameras,
3 that you're confident that you have the proper evidence
4 to support 21 felony charges, don't you want to have
5 some evidence first?
6 A.The evidence I have are my detectives and the
7 County Attorney deputies that were involved in this
8 investigation knew what they were talking about.
9 Q.Okay.What County Attorneys, deputies were
10 involved in this investigation?
11 A.I don't have their names.
12 Q.How do you know they were involved?
13 A.Because my detectives said they were involved.
14 Q.What detectives told you they were involved?
15 A.I don't recall which ones.
16 Q.Did you ever know?
17 A.The names?
18 Q.Did you ever know any of this stuff?
20 THE WITNESS:What stuff.
21 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Well, the stuff that you don't
22 know now.I don't know what law they violated.I
23 don't know what evidence we had.I don't know what
24 County Attorneys were helping us.I don't know what
25 detectives told me.Did you ever know?
2
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1
MR. LEONARD:Object to form.

THE WITNESS:I think -- I think I said
3 abandonment.I think I gave you some ideas.
4 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.How did Logan Flake
5 abandon those dogs?Question mark?
6 A.And the answer is my detectives would have that
7 information.
8 Q.So you don't know?
9 A.The detectives are the ones that investigated
10 this case.
11 Q.Okay.Can you give me any facts supporting
12 your suggestion that Logan Flake abandoned those dogs?
13 A.No.No.
14 Q.Okay.Can you give me any fact that Austin
15 Flake abandoned those dogs?
16 A.Personally, no.I rely on my detectives.
17 Q.Okay.Can you give me any fact that Logan
18 Flake didn't feed those dogs?
19 A.I rely on my detectives.
20 Q.So is that a no?
21 A.The answer is I rely on my detectives.
22 Q.Can you give me any fact that Austin Flake
23 didn't give those dogs proper food?
24 A.I rely on my detectives.
25 Q.Can you give me any fact that Logan Flake
2
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1
A.There's many statutes that could have occurred.

Q.What statute did Logan Flake violate?
3 A.Once again, I will say this again, it's up to
4 the detectives and the prosecutors to determine what
5 the statutes -- or what the violation is.
6 Q.What criminal statute did Austin Flake violate
7 to justify your recommendation of 21 felony charges?
8 A.The same answer.It's up to the prosecutor to
9 determine what the charges are.
10 Q.Well, who advised you to recommend that Logan
11 Flake be prosecuted for 21 felony charges?
12 A.That would have been the detectives.And I
13 presume they were in contact with the Deputy County
14 Attorneys.
15 Q.Okay.You presume, what do you mean you
16 "presume"?You guess?
17 A.I'm not guessing, I presume.I'm sure they
18 would have more knowledge than me.But I'm pretty
19 confident that they did run this by the lawyers.
20 Q.Okay.Before you get up and announce that
21 you're confident there are facts that support 21 felony
22 charges, do you get a briefing?
23 A.I'm sure that before -- are you talking about
24 the press conference?
25 Q.Yeah.I'm talking about what you were just
2
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1
didn't give those dogs water?

2 A.I rely on the investigation by my detectives.
3 Q.Can you give me any fact that Austin Flake
4 didn't give those dogs water?
5 A.I rely on my investigation by my detectives.
6 Q.So you rely on your detectives.Do you still
7 rely on your detectives?For example -8 A.Which case are you talking about?All of my
9 detectives?
10 Q.Well, do you rely on Chief Deputy Sheridan?
11 A.Yes.
12 Q.Is he a competent guy?
13 A.Yes.
14 Q.He was recently held in civil contempt too,
15 wasn't he?
16 A.Yes.
17 Q.And Executive Chief Sands, do you rely on him
18 anymore?
20 THE WITNESS:He's not with us.
21 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Was he a part of this
22 investigation?
24 Q.Okay.So what's -- was there a statute, an
25 Arizona statute violated?
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1
watching, where you announced to the world that "We're
2 recommending to the County Attorney that 21 felony

3 charges be pursued against the four suspects in this
4 investigation.""I'm very confident that we have
5 proper evidence," period, unquote.
6 Before you announced that to the world,
7 Sheriff Arpaio, did you get a briefing from your
8 subordinates, upon whom you exclusively rely, according
9 to you?
10 A.Well, I'm sure that they -- I didn't make this
11 up.I'm sure that they briefed me on items that I
12 would be talking about.So the answer would be, yes,
13 that I was briefed, before I went before the press.
14 Q.Okay.Who briefed you?
15 A.I'm not sure.
16 Q.How could we find out, Sheriff?
17 A.You would have to talk -- I don't know.I
18 would have to research it or talk to other witnesses.
19 Q.Well, if I -- you know your office, how your
20 office operates, right?
21 A.Yes.
22 Q.If you wanted to find out who briefed you,
23 Sheriff, how would you do it?How would you go about
24 it as sheriff?If you wanted to find out who briefed
25 you that your office was recommending 21 felony charges
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1
to be pursued against Logan Flake and Austin Flake,

2 what would you do as sheriff?
3 A.Well, I would presume I would look at the
4 public relations person.
5 Q.Who is that?
6 A.I'm not -- it could have been Lisa Allen, who
7 is no longer with us now.
8 Q.Where is she?
9 A.She's out of state.
10 Q.Where?
11 A.Out of state.
12 Q.Yeah.Where out of state?Because I'm going
13 to find her.
14 A.Well, I'm not going to make it easy for you.
15 Q.No.Yeah, you are going to make it easy
16 because you're under oath and I'm asking you and you
17 have to -18 A.And I'm going to answer it.
19 Q.Okay.Where?
20 A.It's in Idaho.
21 Q.Where in Idaho?
22 A.Boise.
23 Q.What's she doing there?
24 A.I don't know.
25 Q.Why did she leave your office?
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1
(Whereupon, Deposition Exhibits Number 3 and 4

were marked for identification.)
3 THE WITNESS:Did I see it before?
4 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Yeah.Have you ever seen it
5 before?
6 A.I don't recall.I'm seeing it now.
7 Q.Do you know whether the things in there -- the
8 statements in there are true or false?
9 A.I don't know.
10 Q.You don't know.You've never seen it before?
12 Q.Have you ever spoken to any lawyer about it?
14 Q.Has Mr. Leonard ever given you a copy of that?
15 A.I don't believe so.
16 I may have.I don't remember.
17 Q.Have you ever seen this before?
18 MR. LEONARD:What is "this" that you're
19 referring to.
20 MR. MONTOYA:Look at it.
22 THE WITNESS:I don't recall.
23 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Did your lawyer, Mr. Leonard,
24 ever give you a copy of that?
25 MR. LEONARD:Okay.I'm going to instruct
2
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1
A.Retirement.
Q.So she retired?
3 A.Yes.
4 Q.She wasn't terminated?
5 A.No.
6 Q.How else would you find out who briefed you on
7 your recommendation or your office's recommendation on
8 21 felony charges?
9 A.Well, I would have to start researching going
10 back to those days who was involved and see if they
11 remembered who talked to me.
14 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Have you ever seen this
15 before?It's Defendants' Rule 26(a)(1)(A) Initial
16 Disclosure Statement.
17 You can share it with your lawyer.
18 MR. LEONARD:Do you have copies?
19 MR. MONTOYA:You can just have that one.
20 I don't need a copy.I know what it says.
21 MR. LEONARD:Are you marking it.
22 MR. MONTOYA:Yes.I'll give you copy at
23 our next break.
24 But in the meantime, you can use -- I
25 don't need a copy.I know what it says.
2
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1
the witness not to answer that.I mean, that's -communications between us are privileged.
3 MR. MONTOYA:It's not a communication.
4 MR. LEONARD:Sure, it is.
5 MR. MONTOYA:If I hand somebody
6 something, that's not a communication, especially in
7 reference to that document.He had a duty to verify
8 that.He's a party to this case.
9 MR. LEONARD:Who had a duty to verify
10 that?
11 MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff Arpaio had a duty -12 Sheriff Arpaio has a duty to verify all of his
13 discovery -- all discovery responses in this case,
14 Mr. Leonard.He's a party.
15 MR. LEONARD:Under what rule?
16 MR. MONTOYA:Under the federal rules of
17 civil procedure.
18 MR. LEONARD:Okay.Well, we can disagree
19 about that -20 MR. MONTOYA:Under Rule 26.There's
21 no -- read the rule.These have to be verified.
22 MR. LEONARD:I'm going to instruct the
23 witness not to answer.
24 MR. MONTOYA:Can I see that?
25 Thank you, Sheriff.
2
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1
For the record, that's Defendants' First
2 Supplemental Response to Plaintiffs' First Set of

3 Requests for Productions of Documents.
6 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:I'm going to hand you what's
7 been marked as Exhibit 5.It's Defendants' Second
8 Supplemental Response to Plaintiffs' First Set of
9 Requests for Production of Documents.
10 Have you ever seen that document before,
11 Sheriff Arpaio?
12 A.Once again, I don't recall.
13 Q.Did Mr. Leonard give you copy of that?
14 MR. LEONARD:Okay.Well, I'm going to
15 instruct the witness not to answer that question.
16 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Are you going to refuse to
17 answer that question?
19 Q.What documents have you seen that have been
20 generated in this case, Sheriff Arpaio?
21 A.Well, I know I saw the one you're responding to
22 in the press release.And I believe -23 Q.You mean this transcript?
24 A.Yeah.And I believe that you -- the latest -25 I don't know what number it was, but the latest report
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1
justice, I'll add that.

Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Now, Sheriff, you
3 honorably served in our military, correct?
4 A.Plus government for 55 years.
5 Q.I understand that, Sheriff.You respect our
6 Constitution, don't you?
7 A.Yes.
8 Q.You respect our Bill of Rights, don't you?
9 A.Yes.
10 Q.You would defend our Constitution, wouldn't
11 you?
12 A.Yes.
13 Q.Now, have you studied the history of the Bill
14 of Rights a little bit?
15 A.Yeah.
16 Q.Isn't it true that the Bill of Rights is
17 directed against -- primarily directed against
18 government?
19 A.I don't know.
20 Q.Well, Congress shall make no law abridging the
21 freedom of speech.No warrant shall issue without
22 probable cause.Isn't the Bill of Rights directed to
23 limit the government's powers against the people?
24 A.All people.
25 Q.All people?
2
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1
that you report.

Q.The latest complaint?
3 A.Yeah.
4 Q.Okay.When did you first see the complaint
5 that I wrote, Sheriff Arpaio?
6 A.I don't remember the timeline.
7 Q.Did you see an answer on behalf of yourself to
8 the complaint that I authored?
9 A.I don't recall.
10 Q.Do you take notes on what you review?
11 A.Are you talking about general terms?
12 Q.Well, when you're sued -13 A.I see.
14 Q.-- for violating -- well, let me ask you this:
15 Isn't it true, Sheriff, that one of your most important
16 duties as our sheriff, all of our sheriff, you know,
17 you're everyone's sheriff in Maricopa County, right?
18 Not only the Republicans or the Democrats, the
19 nonaligned, you're their sheriff too, right?
20 A.Everybody.
21 Q.I understand, Sheriff.Isn't one of your
22 most -- isn't your most sacred obligation to protect
23 the rights of the people of Maricopa County?
25 THE WITNESS:And to bring violators to
2
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1
A.Including sheriffs.
Q.That's true, Sheriff.You have rights too.
3 But as our sheriff, you also have
4 responsibilities, don't you?
5 A.Yes.
6 Q.Well, people have a right not to be criminally
7 prosecuted if there's not sufficient evidence
8 justifying that prosecution, right?
9 A.That's up to the prosecutors.
10 Q.Well, isn't it up to you as sheriff to make
11 sure your people don't recommend the prosecution of
12 people without enough evidence?
13 A.Our detectives get evidence before they
14 recommend.
15 Q.How do you know?
16 A.Because I have confidence in them and the -17 I'm not going to get into statistics, but I think we've
18 been rather successful in our operation.
19 Q.Are you a fan of our former president Ronald
20 Reagan?
21 A.A fan?
23 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Yeah.
24 A.I'm a fan of many presidents.
25 Q.Were you fan of Ronald Reagan?
2
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1
A.I'm just remembering if I worked under him.I

think I did, along with other presidents.
3 Q.Did you admire him?
4 A.I admire a lot of people, a lot of presidents.
5 Q.Okay.
6 A.Did I admire him?I believed in him.He was
7 our president.But did I admire -- I admire my wife,
8 okay.I don't have any -- my wife is my friend.So
9 when you say, do I admire people.I respect people.I
10 respect you.
11 Q.And I respect you too, Sheriff.Thank you.
12 But, Sheriff, do you remember Ronald
13 Reagan saying, trust but verify?
14 A.I don't remember that.
15 Q.You don't.I know you trust your subordinates.
16 But do you ever verify that your trust is justified, by
17 asking him:Hey, what are the facts supporting this
18 recommendation of 21 felony charges?
19 A.I, once again, have supervisors.It's a checks
20 and balance with supervisors.They're also
21 well-trained.And I rely on my staff, my detectives.
22 If they did something wrong, then action will be taken.
23 But to say on every case -- we have hundreds and
24 hundreds and hundreds of investigations every year, so
25 you have to have confidence in your people to conduct
2
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1
You're handing me a different document

than you've handed him.
3 MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Well, let me take
4 yours back then, Jeff.
5 Oh, yeah, these are. . .
6 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Have you ever seen that?
7 A.You know, you're throwing a whole bunch of
8 documents to me.I -- let me see what this is.
9 Is this from you?
10 Q.Well -11 A.Who wrote -- I mean -- oh, this Wilenchik?
12 Q.Have you even seen -- the question is, Sheriff
13 Arpaio, have you ever seen Exhibit 6 before?
14 A.I don't recall.I may have.I'm trying to
15 figure out what date this was.
16 Q.Did you approve it?
17 A.Approve this?
18 Q.Yes.
19 A.What right do I have to approve it.
20 Q.I don't know what right you have to approve it.
21 I'm just asking you whether you approved it or not?
22 A.Do I approve what's in it?Or did I approve
23 the document?
24 Q.Both?
25 A.I see this is from my attorney, right?
2
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1
all of those investigations, sometimes under difficult

2 conditions.
3 Q.Do you have press conferences announcing to the
4 world that you're recommending felony charges against
5 people on every one of those cases?
6 A.It depends.I've had a lot of press
7 conferences.I had one last night.
8 Q.Is that part -- and how are you enforcing the
9 law by having all these press conferences?
11 THE WITNESS:I'll tell you one thing, I
12 probably don't have 1% what other agencies -- every day
13 you see public information officers before the public
14 talking about everything, every case.You don't hear
15 that from others normally.
16 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Do you remember -17 A.So this is a system that law enforcement has to
18 let the people know what's going on in their agency.
19 Nothing unusual with me.
20 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibits Number 6 and 7
21 were marked for identification.)
22 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Have you ever seen that
23 document before, Sheriff Arpaio?
24 MR. LEONARD:Can I see the front page of
25 that?
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1
MR. LEONARD:Right.
Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Did he file -- did you
3 authorize him to file that?
4 A.I rely on my attorneys.
5 Q.Did you see it -- did you -- have you ever seen
6 that document before, Sheriff Arpaio?
7 A.I'm trying to recall.I don't recall right
8 now.
9 Q.Okay.I respect that answer.
10 Now, Sheriff I'm about to hand -- by the
11 way, Exhibit 6 is the answer to the complaint in this
12 case.And Exhibit 7 is the answer of Defendants Arpaio
13 and Maricopa County to the Second Amended Complaint in
14 this case.
15 Sheriff Arpaio, have you ever seen that?
16 A.You know, once again, I'm not -- I don't recall
17 on this one.I may have.
18 Q.When did you first -- when's the first time
19 that you heard Mr. Leonard was your lawyer in this
20 case?When did you learn that, Sheriff Arpaio?
21 A.I don't recall the date.
22 Q.Well, give me your best estimate.
24 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Was it last week?Was it
25 yesterday?Was it last year?
2
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A.I know I -- over the telephone, was advised

that he was our attorney, but I don't recall the date.
3 Q.And when you say "over the telephone," who
4 called you?
5 A.I'm sure that my attorney may have.
6 Q.Do you know who called you or are you guessing?
7 A.I'm guessing.
8 Q.Okay.
9 MR. LEONARD:Don't guess.
10 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:When's the first time that
11 you're certain that you actually communicated
12 telephonically or face to face with Mr. Leonard?
14 Q.When's the first time that you actually met
15 Mr. Leonard face to face, earlier this week?
16 A.I don't recall if I met him in the past or what
17 the situation was if I did.
20 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff Arpaio, I'm handing
21 you something that's marked as a Maricopa County
22 Sheriff's Office, Joe Arpaio Sheriff News Release.
23 It's Exhibit Number 8.It's dated July 9th of 2014.
24 MR. MONTOYA:Here's a copy for you.
25 MR. LEONARD:Number?
2
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know when it was created.That was one of the

questions that I had for you, sir.
3 So have you ever seen this before?
4 A.I may have.
5 Q.You're quoted in it.
6 Quote, the fifth paragraph down, "'We're
7 not sure what happened,' Arpaio said.'Also, these air
8 flow experts suspect that even if the air conditioning
9 system to that small room was functioning the day these
10 dogs died, the air flow in that size of room with so
11 many large dogs inside of it may not have been
12 sufficient to keep those dogs alive.'"
13 Did you say that?
14 A.I'm going -- I was apprised of that by my
15 public relations or people that have knowledge of the
16 case.
17 Q.But did you say that?Or did someone just make
18 that up as a quote and attribute it to you?
19 A.Well, sometimes people quote me when I don't
20 say it.I'm not going to say that that happened this
21 time.So I'm -- would almost say that it's rather
22 accurate that I probably said it.
23 Q.Is it true that you review every press release
24 that comes out with your picture on it, like this one?
25 A.This is a -- what do you mean, picture?This
2
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1
MR. MONTOYA:That is Exhibit Number 8,
2 sir.
3 Here you go, Evan.
4 MR. HILLER:Oh, thank you.
5 MR. MONTOYA:Sure.
6 MR. LEONARD:Can you hand me Two through
7 Seven?
8 Two through Seven.
9 MR. MONTOYA:Two through Seven?Oh,
10 these?
11 MR. LEONARD:Are those mine?
12 MR. MONTOYA:I'm going to have to get you
13 copies of these.
15 MR. MONTOYA:Please remind me.
16 (Whereupon, Mr. Trujillo exits the deposition
17 at 2:50 p.m.)
18 THE WITNESS:I remember.I'm reading
19 that, that's -20 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:You can do that, Sheriff.
21 A.I don't recall from the past -22 Q.That's your right -- Sheriff, it's your right
23 to read everything that you're presented, as you know.
24 A.Is the date July 9th?
25 Q.It's dated July 9th of 2014, Sheriff.I don't
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is not -- this is on every press release, if you call

that a picture.
3 Q.Well, you see -- is that your picture -4 A.Yes.
5 Q.-- in the background?
6 A.Yeah.That's part of this piece of paper.
7 Q.Yeah.And your name is on the top right, Joe
8 Arpaio, Sheriff, right?
9 A.Yes.
10 Q.And then do you see where it says, "Contact:
11 Sheriff Arpaio," right?
12 A.Yes.
13 Q.Do you stand by this press release?
14 A.I stand by the press release.
15 Q.Okay.Now, in July of 2014, would you happen
16 to know where Austin Flake and Logan Flake lived?
17 A.No.
18 Q.Okay.Let me try to refresh -- does it refresh
19 your recollection for me to tell you that Austin Flake
20 over there was a student at Brigham Young University in
21 Provo, Utah and his then wife, Logan Flake, resided in
22 Provo with him and they were only visiting Logan's
23 parents in Gilbert in July when these dogs tragically
24 passed away, trying to help their parents out.
25 Does that refresh your recollection that
2
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they actually lived in Provo?

3 THE WITNESS:Once again, I didn't
4 personally know about this.I presume my detectives
5 knew about that.Where they lived or wherever they
6 were at and so on.
7 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:I understand, Sheriff.But
8 does that refresh your recollection that the Flakes
9 lived up in Provo, Utah?
10 A.I didn't know where they lived.I know that he
11 was, I believe attending college, what I heard.
12 Q.Did you hear that he was attending BYU, Brigham
13 Young University?
14 A.I don't recall the college itself.
15 Q.Do you know where BYU is?
16 A.It's in Salt Lake City, Utah.
17 Q.It's in Provo?
18 A.Oh, Provo.
19 Q.There might be like a branch in Salt Lake, I
20 don't know.
21 MR. AUSTIN FLAKE:There is.
22 MS. LOGAN FLAKE:There is.
23 MR. MONTOYA:There probably is.
24 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Well, direct your attention to
25 the next page, if you would.
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talk to them and to talk them they had to find out

where they were at.
3 Q.Does this paragraph suggest that the Flakes
4 were trying to evade your detectives?
5 A.I don't know what this suggests, how people
6 would read this.I'm saying I presume our detectives
7 wanted to locate them and talk to them.
8 Q.Now, Sheriff, would you do you me a favor and
9 read the last paragraph of Exhibit 8 into the record?
10 A."There is an overwhelming sense of sadness and
11 anger by dog lovers about this awful occurrence and
12 everyone is screaming for justice."
13 Q.And then it says -- it attributes that sentence
14 to you, right?
15 A.Yeah.I'm looking at all the quotes here,
16 every word is a quote.I'm trying to figure out which
17 one they're quoting me on, okay.
18 Q.Did you say that, Sheriff, quote, "There is an
19 overwhelming sense of sadness and anger by dog lovers
20 about this awful occurrence and everyone is screaming
21 for justice."Did you say that, Sheriff?
22 A.I may have said it.But there are times and
23 I'm not going -- there are times when people put quotes
24 in there, that maybe I didn't review.But I will
25 stand by the comments that are in quotes that I may
2
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1
A.(Witness complies.)
Q.Specifically Paragraph 3, "Sheriff's detectives
3 determined that they needed to speak with the
4 caretakers Logan and Austin Flake before a search
5 warrant was obtained.However, the Flakes would not
6 return detectives' phone calls and instead the couple
7 left the state.Sheriff's detectives then tracked the
8 Flakes to Provo, Utah, and two days ago attempted to
9 question them about what happened.They refused to
10 answer any questions," period, unquote.
11 Did I read that right?
12 A.You're talking about sheriff's detectives?
13 You're talking about the -14 Q.Paragraph 3?
15 A.The wording, the wording of it?
16 Q.Yeah.
17 A.I believe what you said is correct.
18 Q.Okay.
19 A.You didn't make any errors when you read it to
20 me.
21 Q.Okay.Sheriff, here's my question:Does that
22 suggest to the reader that Logan Flake and Austin Flake
23 ran off to avoid questioning by your detectives and
24 your detectives had to track them down, out of state?
25 A.No.I would believe our detectives wanted to
2
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1
have said, okay.

Q.Okay.
3 A.Do you want me to continue on?
4 Q.Please.
5 A.There's another quote.Arpaio says, and then
6 there's another quote, a lot of quotes in there,
7 "Justice is what we are seeking.Not revenge.We rely
8 on what the evidence tells us and nothing more."
9 Q.Did you say that?
10 A.I presume that I did say it, if it's in quotes
11 and I'm -- in that wording, I don't know.
12 Q.Was it true?
13 A.Yeah, I think it's pretty accurate.
14 Q.Did you rely on the what the evidence told you?
15 A.I said we rely on what the evidence tells us
16 and nothing more.
17 Q Did you rely on what the evidence told you in
18 this case?
19 A.I'm relying on our detectives when they
20 conducted that investigation and they got evidence,
21 that actually led to an indictment, so I am relying on
22 the detectives.
23 Q.So you don't rely on the evidence, you rely on
24 what your detectives tell you?
2
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Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Is that it?

2 A.I'm going -3 MR. LEONARD:Don't -- Steve, stop.Don't
4 yell, please.
5 MR. MONTOYA:I'm not yelling.
6 MR. LEONARD:Yes, you are.
7 MR. MONTOYA:No, I'm not.
8 There's a video.It will speak for
9 itself.
10 MR. LEONARD:I understand.
11 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff, that's a question?
12 A.And I answered it, I don't know how many times,
13 I rely on my detectives to do the nuts and bolts of an
14 investigation.I have confidence in my detectives.I
15 rely on them.
16 You keep asking me the same question, I
17 will give you the same answer.They did the
18 investigation.I rely on the evidence that they
19 obtained and sent to the County Attorney's Office.
20 Q.Okay.
21 A.I'm sorry if I was yelling at you, I didn't
22 mean to yell.
23 Q.You're fine.I didn't think you were yelling
24 at me.I consider that to be a normal tone of voice, I
25 really do.
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1
veterinarian I met with, I never used the word -- first

I, me, I don't know do that.And maybe it was a
3 typographical error, but I usually don't -- so met with
4 today, agrees that the timeline, it's just a little -5 it hits me because I never go in the first person, but
6 that's all right.
7 But other than that, it's a press release
8 that I received information from my people and I'm just
9 passing the information on.
10 Q.Do you think that someone reading this would
11 conclude that you thought that the owners and the
12 caretakers and the caretakers -- well, who were the
13 caretakers, Sheriff Arpaio?
14 A.I believe the Hughes.
15 Q.Okay.Who were the owners and who were the
16 caretakers?
17 A.The owners were the Hughes, Mr. and
18 Mrs. Hughes and I believe the caretakers were Austin
19 and his wife.
20 Q.And Logan Flake?
21 A.Yes.
22 Q.And you're saying that the timeline they gave
23 you is quote, "highly suspect," unquote, right?
24 A.Where's the timeline here?
25 Q.It's the fourth paragraph at the bottom of page
2
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1
(Whereupon, Deposition Exhibits Number 9 and 10
2 were marked for identification.)

3 MR. LEONARD:Nine.
4 Q.By MR. MONTOYA:That, sir, is Exhibit 9, which
5 is dated for release on June 23rd of 2014.It's a News
6 Release by the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office,
7 Sheriff Joe Arpaio and the contact is Sheriff Joe
8 Arpaio.And the heading reads, "Sheriff Arpaio
9 Promises Full Investigation into the Deaths of 20 dogs
10 in Gilbert Arizona Boarding Facility."Quote, "No
11 Stone Will Go Unturned."
12 MR. MONTOYA:That's actually Exhibit 10,
13 Jeff.I'm out of order.
14 MR. LEONARD:We haven't seen Nine?
15 MR. MONTOYA:No, but you will soon.
16 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:And the question is, Sheriff
17 Arpaio, have you seen Exhibit Number 10?
18 A.Yes.
19 Q.Do you stand by it?
20 A.Yes, mainly.
21 Q.You say "mainly," so is there something in it
22 that you don't stand by?
23 A.Well, just a technical question.
24 Q.What is that, Sheriff Arpaio?
25 A.When you're -- I'm being quoted, and even the
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1
1."Even the veterinarian that I met with today agrees

that the timeline given by the owners and the
3 caretakers is highly suspect," unquote.
4 Do you see that at the bottom of the page,
5 sir?
6 A.Yes.I'm just repeating what people told me
7 for the press release.
8 Q.I understand.
9 You know, Sheriff, you say people write
10 things that you don't say and attribute them to you,
11 that you don't know what the evidence is, you rely on
12 their subordinates.You're the sheriff, what do you
13 take responsibility for?
15 THE WITNESS:I take responsibility to
16 make sure that my employees know what they're doing,
17 are well-trained, and that I have confidence in them.
18 I do not get involved, for the 90th time, in the nuts
19 and bolts of an investigation.My people do that.
20 Because if I did it, I would be working 50,000,000
21 hours a day.
22 So I delegate.Management is getting
23 things done through people.And I get things done
24 through the people that work for me.
25 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Are you changing that policy
2
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1
in light of Judge Snow's contempt findings against you

and your senior staff and against your whole office?
3 I've read Judge Snow's orders, and according to Judge
4 Snow he thinks that your office is run atrociously and
5 he's actually given a third party the power to control
6 parts of your office?
7 A.So I have confidence in my people they will -8 if there are any deficiencies, they will be corrected.
9 Q.Who is David Hendershott?
10 A.He's my former chief deputy.
11 Q.So he was Chief Deputy Sheridan's predecessor?
12 A.Yes.
13 Q.What happened to him?
14 A.He retired.
15 Q.Wasn't he investigated?
16 A.Investigated?
17 Q.Yes, investigated.
18 A.Yes.Yes.
19 Q.For misconduct?
20 A.Alleged misconduct, yes.
21 Q.And who was he investigated by?
22 A.I believe that it was an outside agency on an
23 administrative situation.
24 Q.What do you mean "administrative situation"?
25 A.Administrative.
2
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1
Q.Were you going to fire him?

A.I hadn't made the decision, but he decided to
3 retire.
4 Q.So you were considering terminating him?
5 A.I didn't look at all the facts.He retired
6 before that.
7 Q.Well, weren't you concerned that your chief -8 your chief assistant was accused of misconduct and you
9 were thinking of firing him and then he retired?
10 A.Well, that could have been one of the elements.
11 Q.And you trust your subordinates?
12 A.Give me that question again.
13 Q.Okay.
14 A.Because you say things that kind of twist
15 around and -16 Q.Well, I don't mean to.
17 A.Well, I don't understand what you say half the
18 time.But go ahead, give that to me again.
19 Q.Okay.David Hendershott was being investigated
20 for misconduct, correct?
21 A.Yes.
22 Q.By an outside agency, right?
23 A.Yes.
24 Q.And that outside agency was what agency?
25 A.It was the Pinal County Sheriff's Office.
2
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1
Q.Well, what do you mean by that?

2 A.Violating any policies or what have you.
3 Q.Was he investigated for misconduct?
4 A.Yes.
5 Q.What was the nature of the misconduct?
6 A.I don't recall, there was many -- it was a long
7 list.
8 Q.And isn't it -9 A.This was many years ago.
10 Q.How many years ago was it?
11 A.It had to be at least 11 years.
12 Q.Oh.Did he -13 A.Or 12 or 14.
14 Q.Did he -- how long ago did he retire?
15 A.Well, he retired -- it had to be 10 or 11
16 years.That's when Sheridan took his place.
17 Q.So your testimony is that Hendershott retired
18 10 or 11 years ago?
19 A.Yes.
20 Q.And did he retire in lieu of termination?
21 A.I don't know.He -22 Q.What do you mean -23 A.Because that's up to him.
24 Q.Did you ask him?
25 A.No, I didn't ask him.
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1
Q.Okay.And the Pinal County Sheriff's Office
2 issued written findings, right?

3 A.Yes.
4 Q.And you read them, right?
5 A.Yes.Well, most of them.
6 Q.So you didn't read that either?
7 A.I said I read most of them.
9 THE WITNESS:Other people have read it
10 too.
11 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.And what were those
12 findings?
14 Q.Those findings, in fact, sustained many of the
15 allegations of misconduct against Mr. Hendershott,
16 right?
17 A.It could have.
18 Q.And then you were going to terminate
19 Mr. Hendershott but instead he retired, correct?
20 A.I'm not sure.When you say I was going to fire
21 him, I was still reviewing the situation and he
22 retired.
23 Q.Were you considering firing him?
24 A.There could have been a possibility.
25 Q.But yet you testify over and over again that
Page 45
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Page 179
1 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Are you going to discipline
2 Mr. Sheridan, based upon Judge Snow's findings?
you trust your subordinates.But yet your subordinate

was investigated by an outside agency and found to have
3 committed misconduct and was facing possible
4 termination.Did that cause you to not trust your
5 subordinates as much?
6 A.My subordinate you're talking about was not
7 investigated for incompetency and conducting
8 investigations.I told you over and over again, I
9 defend the people that run investigations and the nuts
10 and bolts and the evidence they come up with.This had
11 nothing do with an investigation.
12 Q.Now, Sheriff -13 A.On a criminal investigation of criminal
14 activity.
15 Q.Have you ever heard of a figurehead?
16 Do you know what a figurehead means?
17 A.A lot of connotations to that, I guess.
18 Q.Well, let me be direct with you.A figure -19 you've heard of the micromanager, right?
20 A.Yes.
21 Q.A micromanager is a manager who has his hands
22 in everything and is supervising everything from the
23 top to the bottom, right?
24 A.Yes.
25 Q.A micromanager is very hands on, right?
3 A.I'll make that decision.

4 Q.I know you will, Sheriff.And that's what I'm
5 asking you, are you going to discipline him?
6 A.I'm not ready to answer that question.
7 Q.You've had over a month to review Judge Snow's
8 findings.What are you going to do?
9 MR. LEONARD:Objection; form.
10 THE WITNESS:I haven't made a decision.
11 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:When do you intend to make the
12 decision?
13 A.I don't know.
14 Q.Do you really want your chief deputy to be
15 found guilty of civil contempt?
17 THE WITNESS:I haven't made a decision.
18 But I back up my chief deputy, let's put it that way.
19 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Even when he's wrong?
20 A.That was the judge's decision.
21 Q.Well, your other chief deputy, Hendershott,
22 your colleague, Sheriff Babeu found that he was wrong?
23 A.He didn't find what was wrong.His job -24 MR. LEONARD:There's no question.
25 There's no question pending.
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1
A.Yes.
Q.And then on the other end of the continuum is a
3 figurehead, who isn't hands on in any respect, right?
4 MR. LEONARD:Nope.Object to the form.
5 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Is that what -- do you
6 understand what I mean by a "figurehead"?
7 A.No, I don't -- no, no.I don't call that
8 figurehead.
9 Q.Well, okay.On what side of the continuum do
10 you fall, the micromanager who's involved in everything
11 hands-on or what I've described as the -- or what I've
12 termed a figurehead who doesn't have his hands on
13 anything and doesn't know about any of the facts
14 regarding everything and just relies on his
15 subordinates?
17 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Which are you, Sheriff Arpaio?
19 THE WITNESS:I'm the type of guy that
20 after 55 years and most of it in top management
21 positions has received many, many awards for my
22 management abilities, so I guess I'm doing something
23 right to keep a balance.I said, again, my management
24 is -- success is through who the people you hire and
25 how they do the job.
2
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1
Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Isn't it true that you asked
2 Sheriff Babeu and the Pinal County Sheriff's Office to

3 investigate the allegations against David Hendershott?
4 A.An administrative inquiry.
5 Q.True.But it was a investigation regarding
6 allegations of misconduct, right?
7 A.Yes.
8 Q.It wasn't a criminal investigation, right?
9 A.Correct.
10 Q.I understand that and I'm not suggesting that
11 Mr. Hendershott has done anything criminal.And isn't
12 it true that the Pinal County Sheriff's Department
13 found that David Hendershott had engaged in misconduct?
14 A.That was their opinion, strictly, it was a no
15 recommendations attached to it.It was just to review
16 the facts and give it to me.
17 Q.Okay.So your Chief Deputy Hendershott, an
18 independent third party found he had engaged in
19 misconduct.His successor, Mr. Sheridan, a federal
20 judge found that he engaged in misconduct is held in
21 contempt, your two last chief guys have been found to
22 have been -- have been found to have violated the
23 rules, your own rules, and what are you going to do
24 about it?These guys that you trust and that you rely
25 on seemingly blindly?
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1
A.I would say that that's two different

situations.On one, it was a personal type, possible
3 violations.And we're talking about the chief deputy,
4 which is another situation, much different than the
5 Hendershott one.
6 Q.Have you ever asked yourself, I might be
7 relying on my subordinates too much?
8 A.No.
9 Q.Well, ask yourself that; or let me ask you
10 that.Now, Sheriff Joe, Sheriff Arpaio, the Pinal
11 County -- you have the Pinal County Sheriff's findings
12 against Mr. Hendershott, you have the federal district
13 court's findings against Mr. Sheridan, don't you think
14 you're relying on your chief deputies too much?
15 A.There's always a check and balance.The chief
16 deputy also has subordinates.The chief deputy doesn't
17 run the whole organization himself.Just like I said,
18 he has people to do the nuts and bolts.He has people
19 to do the investigation.
20 So you can't blame the chief deputy on
21 investigations.He doesn't review, I believe, every
22 investigation.He relies on the chief of detectives,
23 intelligence, I can go on and on.And we make the
24 decision together.He usually recommends on who top
25 staff will be.Though, I have confidence in my top
2
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1
about what you just said, is making me feel bad.

Evidently some people like me because I keep getting
3 re-elected.
4 I don't want to get into all this, but
5 you're opening that door on questions that I don't
6 really even know how to respond to sometimes.
7 (Whereupon, Mr. Trujillo enters the deposition
8 at 3:19 p.m.)
9 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Well, let me ask you to
10 respond to this question.Have you ever seen this
11 document before?It's a News Release dated December
12 22nd of 2014 from your office regarding Green Acres
13 dogs.
14 MR. LEONARD:Do you have a copy for me?
15 MR. MONTOYA:I do.
16 And I have a copy for your colleague.
17 MR. LEONARD:Exhibit number?
18 MR. MONTOYA:That is Exhibit Number 10.
19 MR. LEONARD:Don't we already have a -20 MR. HILLER:Nine.
21 MR. MONTOYA:No, Nine.
22 Thank you, Evan.
23 THE WITNESS:Yeah.I haven't seen this
24 one, until I've seen it now, that I recall.But
25 that's. . .
2
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1
staff.I have confidence in my chief deputy, who did

2 appoint the right people to get the job done.
3 Q.Did you have confidence in Brian Sands?
4 A.I -- this is something that the chief deputy,
5 he reported to Brian Sands.
6 Q.Did you have confidence in Brian Sands?
7 A.Well, yeah, I had confidence in him at certain
8 periods of time.
9 Q.Okay.Now, Sheriff, I respect what you just
10 said and this is a sincere question:Don't you think
11 you're relying on these guys too much and they're
12 letting you down, Sheriff?
14 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Honestly, Sheriff, they're
15 making you look bad.Don't you think so?
17 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:I'm sure I'm not the first one
18 to have asked you that question.Don't you think that
19 your command staff is making you, sir, look poorly?
21 THE WITNESS:I'm not out to win the
22 popularity contest and I don't do things for political
23 reasons much.I do what I feel is right.So if you
24 think people -- I -- people look at me in a different
25 light.I don't run -- I don't do this job worrying
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1
Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Do you remember that?

A.I remember some of the information, yes.
3 Q.Do you stand by that, Exhibit Number 9?
4 A.I'm not sure who they're talking about.It
5 doesn't say here, anything about anybody.
6 Q.Do you stand by that or was that sent out
7 without your authorization?
8 A.I may have looked at it.I'm not saying I
9 prepared it, but I may have looked at it.
10 Q.But do you stand by it, Sheriff?
12 THE WITNESS:Yeah, in a way I do.
13 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.What way is that?
14 A.I think -- I think what may have stimulated
15 this press release, without naming names, there's an
16 uproar on some decision that the County Attorney made,
17 which I don't know if it's over a dismissal of the case
18 or I don't know what he's talking about.
19 Q.I'll tell you what he was talking about.
20 A.But I don't think Hughes was dismissed.
21 Q.I'll tell you what he was talking about, sir.
22 I'm not here to play games with you.
23 A.Yeah.
24 Q.Dennis Wilenchik represented Austin Flake and
25 Logan Flake and filed a motion to dismiss the
2
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1
indictment and remand the case to the grand jury.And

2 after the County Attorney's Office read it, they
3 thought it had some valid points.So they, the County
4 Attorney's Office, actually moved to dismiss the case
5 and the court granted it.And the case was remanded to
6 the grand jury.
7 Are you following me?
8 A.For indictment.
9 They were indicted.
10 Q.Well, they were -- the Hughes were re-indicted?
11 A.Okay.Yes, yes.
12 Q.However, my two clients, those two young people
13 over there, starting off in their lives, Sheriff
14 Arpaio, were not indicted, they were not re-indicted.
16 A.Yes.
17 Q.And that's when that press release was issued.
18 Do you remember now?
19 A.Yeah.
20 Q.And do you remember going before the cameras to
21 speak to the world regarding that?
23 THE WITNESS:I don't know if I went
24 before any cameras.It may have -- it probably was
25 just a press release.
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1
Q.Do you stand by that?

A.Yes.
3 Q.Why did you -- why did you give that press
4 conference?What the heck was that anyway?
6 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:You know, the media wasn't
7 there or didn't appear to be there.It appeared to be
8 just like a video release to the press?
9 A.I never mentioned the names, if you recall.
10 Q.That's true.
11 A.On anybody.
12 Q.On this one.On your first -13 A.I'm talking about this press release.
14 Q.You're right.
15 A.I'm talking about what you just showed me.I
16 never mentioned anybody's name.Let's get that
17 straight.
18 Q.That's correct.I'm straight on that.
19 A.So what I did, because I don't recall -- I
20 don't -- this is Wilenchik's comments to the media.
21 Something steered me to do this to show that my people
22 are competent and they did a good investigation.I
23 stand by that to this day.
24 So I was just trying to get out to the
25 public, that listen, we are a professional agency and
2
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1
Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:So you don't remember?

A.No.
3 Q.Well, I'm going to remind you by -- and,
4 Sheriff, I just pulled this off YouTube, the website.
5 A.Yes.
6 Q.I'll tell you how I find it, sir, if you want
7 to find it.I put in Arpaio and Green Acre and both
8 the first press conference and this came up?
9 (Video played.)
10 THE WITNESS:Yes.
11 (Video stopped.)
12 THE WITNESS:That must have been around
13 Christmas.
14 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:It was.
15 A.Now, is this -- is this -- is this what I said
16 there?
17 Q.No, it's the same time and same subject matter,
18 but it is not verbatim.
19 A.Okay.
20 Q.Do you remember giving that statement?
21 A.Yes.
22 Q.Was that you?
23 A.That's me.
24 Q.Of course, it was you and you said that, right?
25 A.Yes.
2
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1
because some lawyer gets out there and starts blasting

away without me saying it, I just want to reinforce
3 that we did a good investigation.That's what -- I
4 think that's what triggered me to say that without
5 mentioning any names.There was a lot of
6 demonstrations in front of my building.What do you
7 call it, the 62 -- the Gilbert 40?Or what was it, the
8 Gilbert 25?
9 Q.The Gilbert -- sometimes it's the Gilbert 20,
10 sometimes it's the Gilbert 21 -11 A.Well, whatever.
12 Q.Sometimes it's the Gilbert 22.I was going to
13 ask you that.
14 A.Well, there was a lot of dogs that died.
15 Q.Sheriff, let me ask you that:How many dogs
16 died?
17 A.I believe -- I believe there was 28 originally
18 in that room.But I think 21 died -19 Q.Okay.
20 A.-- out of the 28.
21 Q.Okay.
22 A.If I recall correctly.
23 MR. LEONARD:Steve, we've been going
24 about two hours.Is this a good time to take a few
25 minutes?
2
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1
MR. MONTOYA:Sure.
2 Is that okay with you, sir?

3 THE WITNESS:Yes, sir.
4 MR. MONTOYA:Okay.
5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:This ends Media 3 in
7 record at 3:29 p.m.
8 (Whereupon, a 19-minute recess ensued from 3:29
9 p.m. to 3:48 p.m.)
10 (Whereupon, Ms. Jeannie Bowman and Ms. Kathleen
11 Kolm were not present in the deposition at 3:34 p.m.)
12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:This begins Media 4 in
14 at 3:48 p.m.
15 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff, did you have the
16 chance to confer with your two attorneys during the
17 break?
18 A.Yes.
19 Q.Do you want to change any of your testimony?
20 A.No.
21 Q.Do you want to supplement any of your
22 testimony, to make your answers more accurate?
23 A.I don't recall.Right now, I haven't reviewed
24 five hours, so I don't recall everything I said.
25 Q.Anything you want to say?
Page 191
1
A.No.
Q.Did you attempt to ascertain the nature of the
3 alleged lie?
4 A.No.
5 Q.Are you aware that your detective, Marie
6 Trombi, testified to the grand jury that the electrical
7 usage records kept by the Salt River Project showed
8 that the air conditioning at the Flakes' (sic)
9 residence was on all night and was consistent with
10 other nights?
12 THE WITNESS:Was I concerned?
13 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:No.Are you aware that your
14 detective Marie Trombi told the grand jury that the air
15 conditioner, quote, "Was on all night," unquote?
17 THE WITNESS:I wasn't concerned.That
18 was her opinion -- or her investigation.
19 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Well, are you aware that the
20 SRP records reflecting the electrical usage at the
21 Hugheses' home on the night of the dogs' death showed
22 at about 2:00 in the morning the electrical usage
23 dropped 38%?
24 A.I heard -25 MR. LEONARD:Object to form.
2
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1
A.Well, I haven't reviewed the whole testimony

today.But as of now, I don't have any reason to. . .
3 Q.Okay.Okay.
4 Do you know why the Maricopa County
5 Attorney Office's moved to dismiss the criminal charges
6 filed against Austin Flake and Logan Flake?
7 A.Not really.
8 Q.Did you ever know?
10 Q.Now, were you concerned when Dennis Wilenchik
11 moved to have the case dismissed and remanded to the
12 grand jury, claiming that your detective, Marie Trombi,
13 had provided false grand jury testimony, did that
14 accusation concern you?
15 A.That was the attorney's opinion.
16 Q.That I understand.But did that opinion
17 concern you, that your detective, Marie Trombi, gave
18 false testimony to the grand jury?
19 A.I was concerned about his opinion on calling my
20 detective, I would presume, a liar.
21 Q.Did you investigate that allegation, that your
22 detective, Marie Trombi, was a liar?
23 A.No.
24 Q.Did you look at the grand jury transcript to
25 see if she had lied?
2
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1
THE WITNESS:I heard something about it

but I didn't get involved in the air conditioning.I
3 don't even know how to plug a thing in the wall.So I
4 didn't get involved in that.
5 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:I understand.
6 Did you delegate the issue of whether or
7 not Marie Trombi gave false grand jury testimony to one
8 of your subordinates to investigate?
9 A.Not that I remember.
10 Q.Why not?
11 A.Because of one lawyer that made a statement.
12 Q.Well -13 A.If you're saying Wilenchik accused her of lying
14 and so on.
15 Q.No, I'm not saying that.
16 Okay.You realize that grand jury
17 proceedings are -- a record is made of them, right?
18 A.Yes.
19 Q.And you know what this lady does, right, the
20 court reporter?
21 A.Yes.
22 Q.She is an officer of the court, you understand,
23 right?
24 A.I didn't know that, but I presume, yes.
25 Q.And you know she's under a legal obligation to
2
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1
accurately take down what transpires, for example, in

2 this deposition, right?
3 A.Yes.
4 Q.And do you know that grand jury proceedings,
5 there's a court reporter much like her, that takes down
6 everything that's said before the grand jury.You're
7 aware of that, right?
8 A.Yes.
9 Q.You've testified before a grand jury, I bet, in
10 your lengthy career?
11 A.Many, many, many, many years ago.
12 Q.Okay.Are you aware that there's a grand jury
13 transcript that actually substantiates Mr. Wilenchik's
14 claim that Marie Trombi either accidentally or on
15 purpose made misstatements to the grand jury, for
16 example, by claiming that the Salt River Project
17 electrical records for the Hugheses' home on June 20th
18 of 2014 indicate that the air conditioner was on all
19 night.
20 Are you aware of that?
21 MR. LEONARD:Would you repeat the
22 question?
23 MR. MONTOYA:The court reporter can.
24 MR. LEONARD:That's fine.
25 (Whereupon, the question was read.)
Page 195
1 don't know.I don't think they did.On the other
2 hand, I do know that there was County Attorneys working
3 with her.
4 And I would presume if there was something
5 very serious, maybe they would have looked at -- looked
6 at that situation themselves.
7 Q.Now, Sheriff, if one of your subordinates makes
8 lies to a grand jury, is that something that would
9 concern you as our sheriff?
10 A.This an opinion of a lawyer.This suing. . .
11 Q.Okay.
12 A.That has their own interests.
13 Q.But some things like what SRP's electrical
14 usage records reflect, that's an objective fact, right?
15 A.I don't know anything -16 MR. LEONARD:Objection; form and
17 foundation.
18 THE WITNESS:I don't know anything about
19 that situation.I didn't look into it myself.
20 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Well, did you ask one of your
21 subordinates to look into it?
22 A.I don't recall.I would presume if there was
23 an issue, they would look into it.
24 Q.Without you asking them?
25 A.Yes.
Page 194
1
MR. LEONARD:Objection; form and

foundation.
3 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Okay.Are you aware of that?
4 A.You mean now?
5 Q.Yes.
6 A.Right now?
7 Q.Or have you ever been aware of that?
8 A.I don't recall, I may have.I don't recall.I
9 didn't get involved in all of the grand jury and all
10 the facts on it.
11 Q.Are you aware that Dennis Wilenchik argued to
12 the Maricopa County Superior Court judge, Michael Kemp,
13 in charge of the criminal case, that your detective,
14 Marie Trombi, made misstatements to the grand jury?
15 A.The only thing that strikes me is that he was
16 accusing her, I think, of lying, perjury, I mean, even
17 including me in that, so that's what struck a bell with
18 me.
19 Q Okay.Well, what did you -20 A.But I know I wasn't before any grand jury.
21 Q.What did you do to assure yourself, if
22 anything, that Marie Trombi did not make
23 misrepresentations to the grand jury?
24 A.I don't believe that -- I don't know if my
25 higher staff or Internal Affairs looked into that, I
2
Page 196
1
Q.Would they report their findings to you as

sheriff?
3 A.I'm sure they would.
4 Q.Did anyone report their findings to you,
5 Sheriff Arpaio?
7 Q.Do you know if Marie Trombi lied to the grand
8 jury?
9 A.Do I know?
10 Q.Yeah.Do you know whether or not?
11 A.No, I don't know as a fact.But, once again,
12 it is a lawyer that's making an allegation.
13 Q.Well, sometimes lawyers make allegations that
14 are proven to be true, right?
15 A.That could be.
16 Q.A lawyer -- for example, prosecutors make
17 allegations that involve rape and murder and child
18 molestation.And, oftentimes, juries convict people
19 and send people to prison over those allegations,
20 right?
21 A.Yes.But I'm going to say it, again, we had
22 lawyers working with us.I would presume that the
23 lawyers would make an issue of that, whatever you're
24 asking me.
25 Q.Well, are the lawyers in charge of your
2
Page 50
Page 197
1
subordinates or are you, Sheriff Arpaio?

A.I am.But we rely on legal matters from our
3 attorneys.And they could have made an issue of it
4 with my people, that would have helped me if I knew
5 whether there was a problem.
6 Nobody came up to me and said there was a
7 problem on that statement that the lawyer has said.
8 Q.Judge Snow has found that your office has a
9 pattern of failing to investigate allegations of
10 misconduct, hasn't he?
11 A.That was his finding.
12 Q.Do you disagree with it?
13 A.I don't agree with everything in a sense.I
14 mean, I -- but that's his -- I'm saying that's his
15 decision.
16 Q.Well, Sheriff Arpaio, if one of your detectives
17 is accused of lying before the grand jury and you don't
18 investigate it, you don't know if anyone else has
19 investigated it, doesn't that support Judge Snow's
20 findings that your office is allowing people to
21 perpetrate misconduct without even any investigation of
22 that misconduct?
23 A.When you talk about investigation, I don't know
24 whether my staff did talk to Marie Trombi.
25 Now, if you're saying there's a big
2
Page 199
1
jury transcript said?

A.The whole transcript, no.
3 Q.Did they share the part about whether or not
4 the electricity stopped?
5 A.I know that there was a little controversy even
6 in the media, I presume, over air conditioning.But,
7 once again, I didn't get involved with that.I let the
8 investigators and the lawyers address that issue.
9 Q.Are you aware that Marie Trombi was asked by a
10 Deputy County Attorney, before the grand jury:
11 "Question:In fact that dog room, that
12 air was working all night?
13 "Answer:Yes."
14 Are you aware of that?
15 A.I am now.
16 Q.Did you ever become aware that, in fact, the
17 air conditioning stopped working at the Hugheses' home
18 at approximately 2:00 in the morning on June 20th of
19 2014, the night that those dogs died?
20 MR. LEONARD:Objection; form and
21 foundation.
22 THE WITNESS:I -23 MR. LEONARD:Form and foundation.
24 THE WITNESS:I don't recall the time or
25 this situation on the air conditioning and so on.
2
Page 198
1
written investigation, I don't know.But I would

presume that my people did question her on that
3 allegation.
4 Q.Do you also presume they would have informed
5 you of their questioning of her and the results of
6 their questioning?
7 A.I would imagine that there was some negative
8 connotation or if there were something wrong, of
9 course, they would.
10 Q.Well, if she were cleared, wouldn't they come
11 to you and say:Sheriff, our woman, our detective,
12 Marie Trombi, she didn't lie.Wilenchik is wrong by
13 accusing her of lying?
14 A.Well, there may have been some comments and not
15 a formal investigation that they support her in her
16 investigation.
17 I'm sure they asked her about that.
18 Q.Do you know that Marie Trombi testified to the
19 grand jury in response to this question:
20 Quote, "So the SRP report shows that the
21 air was working fine all night?"
22 "Answer:Yes."
23 Are you aware that was her testimony?
24 A.I didn't read the grand jury transcript.
25 Q.Did anyone tell you about the -- what the grand
2
Page 200
1
I wasn't running the investigation, as I

said many times.
3 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Sheriff Arpaio, you've
4 testified that you're 84 years old and you have decades
5 of experience in law enforcement.You're hardly a
6 rookie, are you?
7 A.A rookie?
8 Q Yes.You're not a rookie -9 A.No.No, I think 55 years doesn't make me a
10 rookie.
11 Q.You're a very seasoned law enforcement
12 professional, aren't you?
13 A.I would like to think so.
14 Q.What do you think the impact on Logan, on
15 Austin, what do you think the impact on their lives was
16 when they were indicted on 21 felony counts?
17 MR. LEONARD:Form.
18 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Based upon your office's
19 recommendation?
20 MR. LEONARD:Form and foundation.
21 THE WITNESS:I think I said before, it
22 doesn't matter what the surname is or whatever, I do
23 have a heart, I think you know that.I do have
24 children and grandkids.
25 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:You seem like you have a
2
Page 51
Page 201
1 heart, Sheriff?
Page 203
1
2 A.Well, but I have to do my duty professionally,

3 and my personal feelings don't make any difference to
4 me when I'm doing my job.
6 But do you think that being in -- do you
7 think that being charged with 21 felony counts hurt
8 Austin, hurt Logan?
9 A.I don't know.
10 Q.Well -11 A.I can't speak for them.
12 Q.Well, based on your experience, sir, what's
13 your gut feeling on that?
15 THE WITNESS:I don't have a gut feeling,
16 because there are many people, politicians or otherwise
17 that have been charged with crimes, so I don't really
18 get involved in that.I wasn't involved in this one.
19 But I was doing my job, my people were
20 doing their job and that's the way I look at it.
21 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Do you think Marie Trombi did
22 a good job, investigating the death of those dogs?
23 A.I have to go by record and experience.She's a
24 very seasoned, probably one of the best in the country,
25 on animal cruelty.
foundation.
2 THE WITNESS:I don't know that answer.

3 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:Have you done anything to
4 ascertain the answer to that question?
5 A.No.
6 Q.Why not?
7 A.My staff may have.I mentioned before, my
8 staff may have talked to her about that and looked into
9 it.
10 And County Attorneys that worked with her
11 in that -- I believe there may have been a Deputy
12 County Attorney in the grand jury, I don't know.
13 Actually, there has to be a Deputy County Attorney, I
14 would think, yeah.
15 Q.Yeah.And they're the ones who dismissed the
16 indictment and remanded it to the grand jury, right?
17 A.They remanded it to the grand jury?
18 Q.Yeah.And when the grand jury came back there
19 was no indictment of Austin Flake, there was no
20 indictment of Logan Flake, right?
21 A.Well, I don't know the sequence on that
22 situation at that time.
23 Q.Do you believe that Logan Flake was
24 re-indicted?
25 A.No, I don't think he was re-indicted, he was
Page 202
1
Many, many, many arrests we have made,

probably more than anybody in this county, so I have
3 confidence with all of the arrests and all of the
4 convictions, 99.9 percent have been convicted of all
5 the cases we've made.
6 Q.Okay, well, thank you.
7 Marie Trombi was in charge of the
8 investigation, wasn't she?
9 A.I believe she was.There may have been a
10 sergeant too there.I'm not sure.
11 But she was what we may call the lead,
12 probably a lead investigator.
13 Q.And do you think she did a good job?
14 A.Yes.
15 Q.Do you stand by what she said?
16 A.Yes.
17 Q.Do you stand by her testimony to the grand
18 jury?
19 A.I don't have all of the facts on the testimony.
20 All I can stand by is the investigation, her
21 experience, and her honesty and dedication, that's all
22 I can say and I stand by that.
23 Q.Do you deny that she made misrepresentations to
24 the grand jury?
25 MR. LEONARD:Objection; form and
2
Page 204
1
indicted.
Q.Okay.But Logan Flake is a woman, right?
3 A.Oh, I'm sorry, it's Logan.
4 Q.That's okay?
5 A.I'm sorry, I didn't mean that.
6 Q.That's okay.
7 Logan Flake was indicted once, right?
8 A.Logan?
9 Q.Logan Flake, Ms. Flake, the blond.
10 She was indicted, right?
11 A.I'm not sure.
12 Q.Pursuant to the recommendation of your office,
13 21 times.The transcript is right here.
14 A.Well, I'm not sure whether Austin was too.
15 Q.They both were?
16 A.You said Logan.
17 Q.I know I did say Logan.Logan was indicted on
18 21 counts and Austin was indicted on 21 felony counts,
19 they both were, pursuant to the recommendation of your
20 office.
21 You understand that, right?
22 A.And the County Attorney.
23 Q.And that indictment was remanded to the grand
24 jury, right?
25 You gave a press conference over it that
2
Page 52
Page 205
1 we just watched?
Page 207
1
2 A.They were indicted, yes.
4:11 p.m.
MR. LEONARD:Read and sign.
3 E-Tran.
4 (Whereupon, the deposition was concluded at
5 4:11 p.m.)
6 * * * * * *
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
3 Q.No, no, the indictment was remanded to the

4 grand jury and the charges were dismissed without
5 prejudice?
6 A.Okay.
7 Q.Right?
8 A.Well, that's what you say.I didn't follow
9 that.My memory isn't clear on that right now.
10 Q.Okay.Well, you gave a press conference and
11 issued a press release regarding that incident?
12 A.I don't think I mentioned any names, did I?
13 Q.Well, that press conference that I just showed
14 you, are you denying that was referencing the
15 indictment and the remand of Logan and Austin Flake,
16 their indictment to the grand jury?
17 A.I did not mention names.I was talking about
18 some allegations by a certain attorney and that we
19 didn't do a job.And that's what caused that
20 situation -- you're talking about YouTube, my comments?
21 Q.Yeah.
22 A.Yeah.
23 Q.Sheriff Arpaio, now that you've had all day to
24 think about it.Tell me what Logan Flake did to those
25 dogs that was intentional and violative of the law?
Page 206
1
A.Once again, I'm going to rely on the detectives

and the prosecutors that were involved in this
3 investigation.
4 Q.Tell me, now that you've had the chance to
5 think about it, what Austin Flake did that was
6 intentional and violative of the law in reference to
7 those dogs?
8 A.I don't have an answer for that.
9 Q.Do you think that your office did a good job in
10 reference to its indictment of Logan and Austin?
12 THE WITNESS:They did a very professional
13 job.
14 Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:And you stand by what they
15 did?
16 A.Yes.
17 Q.Sheriff Arpaio, do you want to say anything to
18 make the record more accurate or complete at this time?
19 A.No.
20 MR. MONTOYA:I don't have any further
21 questions.Thank you for your patience and your time,
22 sir.
23 THE WITNESS:Thank you.
24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:This concludes the
25 deposition of Sheriff Joseph Arpaio.Off the record at
2
Page 208
1
3
4
5
6
7 I, the undersigned, say that I have read
8 the foregoing transcript of testimony taken July 14,
9 2016, and I declare, under penalty of perjury, that the
10 foregoing is a true and correct transcript of my
11 testimony contained therein.
12
13 EXECUTED this __________ day of
14 ________________, 2016.
15
16
17 ____________________________________
SHERIFF JOSEPH M. ARPAIO
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
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Page 209
1 STATE OF ARIZONA ) SS.
)
2 COUNTY OF MARICOPA )
3
BE IT KNOWN that the foregoing proceedings were
4 taken before me, DONNA DELAVINA, Certified Reporter
No. 50468, that the witness before testifying was duly
5 sworn by me to testify to the whole truth; that the
foregoing 208 pages are a full, true and accurate
6 record of the proceedings, all done to the best of my
skill and ability; that the proceedings were taken down
7 by me in shorthand and thereafter reduced to print
under my direction.
8
[X]Review and signature was requested.
9
[ ]Review and signature was waived.
10
[ ]Review and signature not required.
11
I CERTIFY that I am in no way related to any of
12 the parties thereto nor am I in any way interested in
the outcome hereof.
13
I FURTHER CERTIFY that I have complied with the
14 ethical obligations set forth in ACJA 7-206.DATED at
Phoenix, Arizona, this 31st day of July, 2016.
15
16
______________________________
17 Donna DeLaVina, RPR
Certified Reporter
18 Certificate No. 50468
19 * * * * * *
20 I CERTIFY that DONNA DELAVINA REPORTING, LLC has
complied with the ethical obligations set forth in ACJA
21 7-206.
22
23 ______________________________
Donna DeLaVina, RPR, Owner
24 Donna DeLaVina Reporting, LLC
Arizona RRF No. R1010
25

Flake v. Arpaio 2016-07-14 ARPAIO DEPOSITION

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Page 1

ALSO PRESENT: (Continued)

SHERIFF JOSEPH M. ARPAIO,

2 called as a witness herein, having been first duly

Q.Do you remember how many times?

Q.And did you retire from the federal -- the DEA,

Q.Did you win?

to make you feel more comfortable for your deposition,

I've noticed that you travel with

3 for example, if you're a Phoenix police officer and you

A.No.If I want to read a manual, I can read the

think on one of the videos I've seen of you, I've seen

like to watch the cable network Fox News.Do you ever

A.That would be a good title too.

A.And run the jails.

A.I thought the question was hard, but I was

laws and that gives us the jurisdiction.

What did you learn?

A.I don't know -- I haven't given him a test on

searches and seizures?

Q.Okay.Other than it being about search and

2 seizure, what else do you remember?

Q.But you're - A.That's why I have lawyers.

A.To develop a case, probable cause, to conduct a

Q.Well, if you can't give me a blanket answer,

2 give me what you think is a truthful accurate answer,

1 THE WITNESS:Once again, I didn't

2 evaluate him.I take the advice of my chief deputy.

an individual named Brian Sands?

3 And usually I go by what my chief deputy says or my

Q.That wasn't the situation with Deputy Sands,

question, Sheriff Arpaio?

coming to you and telling you that Executive Chief

A.I was told.

A.English very well.Spanish, because I lived in

Q.So you approved Mr. Sands' promotion to

Q.He was, I think.

2 I'll give you my same type of situation.

3 matter of fact.Do you remember Brian Sands repeatedly

opinion and others.

helped you raise a lot of money.

A.I have a lot of support for that subject matter

Q.BY MR. MONTOYA:So it's not true?

Q.So when Brian Sands says that you're not

publicity to yourself?Has anyone else ever accused

you mean by that?

name -- whose last name is Snow?

alleged animal cruelty to garner publicity and to

A.I'm not going to comment on that.

things for publicity.So I think it is related and

2 that's why I'm asking you the question.

Sheriff, the date is May 13th of this

federal district judge here in Maricopa County, after a

2 lengthy evidentiary hearing, found you in contempt.

convinced I read it.Whether I read every page, I

was disrespectful to the court in any way.So if

A.I believe that was a finding against me and my

11:30 a.m. to 11:49 a.m.)

3 the deposition of Sheriff Joseph Arpaio.On the record

ludicrous and crap," unquote.

reason why I'm asking you is because it's got to be

2 clear for the record.You understand that, right?

Q.Sheriff, when you give a press conference or