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The following paper is a compilation of the minutes of the discussion. I have made an
attempt to provide the same in an essay format with headings for coherence. This
paper is strictly meant for Private Use of the members only. This paper is not an
academic or research paper and hence you are strictly advised not to quote anything
outside. The objective of the paper is to only provide a summary of what has been
discussed. This means that the topic is still open for discussion, debate and
deliberation in the online forum/ blog.
Theism and Atheism are two sensitive topics in the society today. While each
individual decides his stance, predominantly we brand the other side with stereotypes
as being “absurd”, “dumb” etc without understanding the perspectives. The Society
for Intellectual Thinking (hereinafter referred to as „SIT‟) sat down to discuss the
varying perceptions and dynamics in these two aspects. The discussion covered the
following:
Date: 21/12/ 08
Venue: Gandhi Statue, Marina Beach, Chennai
Participants
1. Srinath Varadarajan – Moderator and Philosophic
2. Prashanth Krishnaswami - Agnostic
3. Harish Sampath Kumar - Purist
4. Akshay Madhavan – Core Atheist
5. Srinath Veeraraghavan - Purist
6. Dr. Mohan Rao - Spiritual
7. Shyleshwari Rao - Spiritual
8. Sairam Gopalan - Religious
9. Rajaraman Subramaniam – Theist
10. Aparajith Jayaraman - Theist
11. Sundar Velan – Core Atheist
12. Srinath Chakravarthi - Agnostic
Regards,
Srinath Varadarajan
Member, SIT
In a complete state of abstractness and randomness, the entire world is transient and
ever changing. To bring in realism or tangibility or hedge against such a phenomenon,
we have developed systems, logical thought process, lifestyles and the like. A
complete ideal and in fact natural phenomenon is where man has none of these and is
in a total chaotic state. That is the reason why theists believe in a new born baby and a
child as manifestations of the Godhood, meaning that it is pure and natural.
The idea of theism besides being “worship of God”, “rituals”, and the possible
“superstitions” , also lays emphasis on the “attainment of godhood” which is a state
where one does not distinguish anything from anything, understanding the constancy
in the transient, does not go by systems, etc, in short, becomes what a new born baby
is! Some theists also believe in the worship of nature per se, meaning rain, sun, wind
etc, which have a direct bearing to our living.
The idea of God being only an hypothesis, though the atheists agree that there “could
be a possibility”, they refuse to accept or digest the same as the same has not proven
and the atheists attach their belief on things that are proven by science, as the same is
“more likely” and “dependable”. Though proofs are not always rite and can be
negated over time, the atheists alter their beliefs on the basis of proofs as they occur.
Another similar ideology is being agnostic. An agnostic person is one who holds that
the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are
unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. The
difference between atheism and being agnostic, is that the atheist negates the
existence of God while the agnostic person holds the view that though may be
possible, it would not be possible to know, however, the lifestyle of the atheist and
agnostic person are more or less similar. The various happenings are related to luck,
chance and probability.
While we find that each individual has his own stance on the same, many a times we
find that people live in contradictions meaning that though are theists, they are
atheists for certain situations and vice versa. For example, under complete theism, the
feeling of I or the ego is negated and unselfishness is agreed to be God. However,
people in some situations in the guise of saying it is “practical” many a times get to go
against the theist ideology and are atheists for that particular situation. In the same
sense, at the time of a crisis, we could find that those who do not believe in God also
have a hope that a miracle could take place! Hence, the common man today is more or
less in the “grey” and not really extreme theist or extreme atheist.
1. A physical existence
2. A precedent
3. A credible source
4. Adherence to set of commonly accepted ways of logical thinking
5. Science as such is proof
6. Anything written is proof
7. Proof of emotions can only be felt
8. Proof has to be clinical and should be experimented rather than being emotive
9. Proof is consistency
The idea of proof for the participants were so different and it only brings to a doubt if
there is a common accepted proof at all, or is it just proof for the outside while each
individual chooses his own way of defining proof for himself!