How Thoughts & Environment Control Your Genes

Guest: Dr. Bruce Lipton

The purpose of this presentation is to convey
information. It is not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure
your condition or to be a substitute for advice from your
physician or other healthcare professional.
Razi: Welcome back to the Natural Cancer Prevention
Summit. I'm so excited for you to meet our next guest
because a discussion on cancer prevention would just not be complete without
the work of Dr. Bruce Lipton.
Dr. Lipton is an internationally recognized leader in bridging science and
spirit. Stem cell biologist, bestselling author of The Biology of Belief, and
recipient of the 2009 Goi Peace Award, he's been a guest speaker on hundreds
of TV and radio shows, as well as keynote presenter for national and
international conferences. So we're so glad he's joining us.
Dr. Lipton began his scientific career as a cell biologist. He received his PhD
degree from the University of Virginia at Charlottesville before joining the
Department of Anatomy at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine. In
1982, Dr. Lipton began examining the principles of quantum physics and how
they might be integrated into his understanding of the cells information
processing systems.
He produced breakthrough studies on the cell membrane, which revealed that
this outer layer of the cell was an organic homologue of a computer chip, the
cell's equivalent of a brain. His research at Stanford University School of
Medicine revealed that the environment operating through the membrane
controlled the behavior and physiology of the cell, turning genes on and off.
His discoveries, which ran counter to the established scientific view that life is
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controlled by the genes, presaged one of today's most important fields of

study, the science of epigenetics. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr.
Lipton.
Dr. Lipton: Hi. I'm so happy to be here with you. We have such a wonderful
topic of self-empowerment. And so I'm so excited for that part and deeply
appreciative of this opportunity to speak to your community.
Razi: Well, this is really exciting. And first I would like to talk a little bit about
genetics because right now all of the discussion about cancer prevention and
even cancer treatment is sort of revolving around genetics, operating under
this assumption that cancer is caused by a faulty gene or a mutated gene.
We're always hearing news about a discovery a new gene that causes cancer.
So as a scientist and a cell biologist, what's wrong with this model?
Dr. Lipton: Well, the first thing is this. The entire public has actually been
programmed with a belief that genes control the characteristics of our life. Not
just our physical characteristics, but our emotional and behavioral
characteristics, as well.
So in other words, the character quality of your life goes back to heredity and
says we inherit these qualities through our genetics. So the genes are
supposedly the elements that shape our lives. Now, there's a problem with
that. And number one is this: genes are blueprints. Let's not make it any more
than that because that's exactly what they are.
The body is made out of about 100,000 different protein molecules. Proteins
are very complex molecules. So they don't just randomly arise. There's a
program, like a blueprint, to make each of the proteins that our body comes
with. And so the DNA is a blueprint.
The belief has been that the DNA blueprint not only is the information to
make a protein. But the DNA blueprint is, and I'll use these words, selfactualizing, meaning that the genes turn themselves on and off. When you
buy into that belief, then you say yes, my characteristics, whether they're
healthy or a disease characteristic, are linked to the genesand the genes are
the things that turn on and off and give us a diseasewell, the first big
problem is this.
As I said, a gene is strictly a blueprint to make these molecules. And I say,
Well, understand it from this perspective. You go into an architect's office.
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She's working on a blueprint. You lean over her shoulder and you casually ask
the architect is your blueprint on or off? Exactly. She looks at you like you're
crazy. It's a blueprint. There's no on and off.
And I go precisely. A gene is a blueprint. It does not have an on and off. It does
not control its own activity. And this becomes important because just look at
the world's condition that says, Oh, everything is controlled by genes. And
now we find out this is not true at all. Genes cannot turn themselves on or off
or modify themselves in this way.
So we have given power to the gene that it has a controlling impact. And I say,
No, no, no. The gene has no more control over your life than an architect's
blueprint controls the building of a house. It is useful in making the building
in the house, but it doesn't make any decision.
Think about it this way: the way we perceive genes right now as blueprints
that are self-actualizing. If that were true in the physical world, then an
architect would just drive by a building site, throw the blueprints into the
yard, drive away, and then come back. And say, "Look, see what the
blueprints made."
And the fact is, yeah it's kind of funny when you see it that way. But it's not
funny for this reason. We have finally recognized and owned the simple truth:
genes do not control their own activity. Genes control nothing. They're just a
blueprint. Well, this becomes important because it says, well, then who selects
the blueprints? Who read the blueprints? Who modify the blueprints?
And now we have an answer because there's a new science. The science that
the public is familiar with is called genetic control, which literally means
control by genes. The new science is a revolution. It changes everything. The
new science is called epigenetic control. You say, well, it sounds almost the
same thing. And I go the little prefix epi- is where the revolution is.
Epi means above. So when I say genetic control, I'm saying control by genes.
But when I say epigenetic control, I'm actually saying control above the genes.
And all of a sudden you say, wait, the genes were in control something above.
And I go yeah, what is that thing above? And I go the environment, the
information in the environment, and when it comes to humans more
specifically how our mind interprets that environment is what is controlling
our genetic activity.
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So it says if you change your environment or you change your perception

about life, then you're directly altering gene activity. And now we find, for
example, that epigenetic control is really where all the issues come from. That
for example, recent data just published in January this year argue that about
10% of cancer is actually involved with genes being at some problem.
Razi: Right.
Dr. Lipton: Meaning that up to 90% of cancer is actually due to an
individual's response to their environment or their perceptions about life. And
then you say so, what is the fundamental reasoning or meaning behind all of
this? And the answer is this: old story, genetic control. You're a victim.
Razi: Yeah.
Dr. Lipton: You're a victim of your heredity. You inherit a gene like a cancer
gene, you call it. And then you say, Oh, my God. I have the gene. I'm going to
get the cancer. I have no control over the gene. That's the old story. The new
story profoundly different because rather than being a victim the new story
says, no, it's how you respond to the environment. What you believe about
life?
And I say these are the things that control change. And I say what's the
significance? The answer is this we're the ones that can change the
environment. We're the ones that can change our perceptions about life. Then
all of a sudden it says oh, then we are the ones that are influencing our
genetic activity and our health by the way we interact with the world.
And I go yes, but here's the important part. Since we are the ones that control
that, then we are the ones that can change that. And therefore by definitions
then we're not the victims of our heredity. We are the master of our heredity
because we can change things. But since it's based on your perception, then
you have to say, oh, where's the problem?
Perception A genes are going to give you cancer. Uh-uh. That means my belief
now is going to say, oh, my gosh I have genes that are giving me cancer. And
my perception can actually cause the cancer. And it's a contrast to epigenetics
that says I got the gene, but I don't necessarily have to engage the cancer.
Just to make it a very important point, the BRCA1 gene, big time everybody
talks about the breast cancer gene.
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Razi: Right.
Dr. Lipton: Angelina Jolie has a double mastectomy and then a urinectomy,
and ovariectomy. And it's like look, if I take out all these organs then the cells
with genes in it will be gone, and therefore I will have no cancer. And I go well,
it's a very interesting approach. But to me it's a very scary approach for a
simple reason. What's the belief that she started with?
The belief is I have the gene. My mother had the gene. My aunt had the gene,
my grandmother. And they had cancer, and therefore I'm going to get cancer.
So my action is take out these organs. No cancer. Here's what I want people to
understand: only 50% of the women with the BRCA gene ever get the cancer.
Why is this important? Well, we only focus on the ones that got the
cancer.
Razi: Right.
Dr. Lipton: The idea is this, what is it about the women that have the gene
but didn't get the cancer? Now, that's where the answer comes from and how
to deal with cancer. It was their lifestyle. It was their stress levels that they are
influencing.
And just a close-up so I can give you a chance to ask me a question, I'll just
give one more fact that people have to understand. And that is this. They have
followed the fate of children who get adopted into a family where there's
cancer running in the family lineage. And what do they find out? They find out
that the adopted children will get the same family of cancer with the same
probability as any of the natural siblings in the family.
Razi: Oh, my God.
Dr. Lipton: Then we have to say wait a minute. The adopted child has
completely different genetics.
Razi: Right.
Dr. Lipton: And then we have to say well, then what caused the cancer? And
the first thing was this. Well, it wasn't the genes. The kid didn't come with
those genes. So the only thing, and it comes back to this, is learning to live a
lifestyle that is perpetuated by the family. Passed down from parent to child is
a lifestyle.
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We're always like oh, genes are passed from parent to family. I go well, genes
are passed. But guess what? Programming, learning how to deal with issues of
life, your personal responsibility in life, these come from developmental period
in the first seven years of your life where you observe other people, such as
your parents, or your siblings, or your community.
And your brain downloads their behavior into your subconscious mind
because a child has to learn thousands and thousands of facts of how to be a
functional member of a family, how to be a member of a community. And I say
okay, teach an infant these thousands of facts. She said, "You can't do that.
And I go but nature designed the brain of an infant through age seven to not
learn through books, but to learn by directly observing other people and
downloading their behaviors.
So our subconscious programs are primarily derived from other people. And if
they're healthy programs, that's great. But if they're not healthy programs,
well, we've been programmed with behaviors that could lead to cancer very
easily.
Razi: That's so insightful because as a parent, it's easy for me to notice that
my children aren't only learning when I'm teaching them something. They're
learning all the time.
Dr. Lipton: One hundred percent. And it's interesting because as a parent,
and I am a parent, one day your child comes up and uses some explicative,
these words. And you look at the child, and you're thinking, well, where did
you get that?
And number two, which is really interesting because it's kind of funny. When
the child uses these so-called bad words, they don't use them randomly. They
use them in the exact same way you used them and for the same reason. And
then all of a sudden it dawns on you it's like where did they learn that?
And the answer is well, sometimes you've used these words and they were just
recording because they're recording 100% of the time. So our children emulate
our behavior. And if we have behaviors that support our health, well, then
good. That's what they download. But if our own behaviors are not supporting
our health, then those behaviors are also being passed to the next generation,
which when they have their children will also pass.
And that's how a cancer can run in a family. When we used to think it was
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only genetics, now we know, no, programming runs in the family at the same
time. And now we have to separate the influence of genes from the influence of
programming. What do we end up with? Well, blame cancer on genes? Maybe
10%. Then that means, well, if genes are responsible for 10%, then what's
responsible for 90%? And it says lifestyle and behavior.
Razi: So this old theory of genetic control, it's a terrifying theory. As you say,
it creates a victim mentality. And it's almost like Russian roulette, like you
might have this gene. You never know when it's going to strike.
So if we know that there's new science, why has it taken so long for, for
instance, the medical community to catch up? An example of this to me is it
took 50 years for science to accept the data that smoking caused cancer,
right. Fifty years!
Dr. Lipton: It's a big problem in the field. There's a couple of influences as to
why it's a big problem. Number one, when you buy into a belief system, you
own that belief system. You invest your career, your life, your money, into that
belief system.
So since we have held since the 1950s the belief that genes control your life,
we've built the entire health industry, and more importantly, a pharmaceutical
industry, and an insurance industry, that has all bought into this belief about
genes. And then all of a sudden some upstarts come around and start saying,
well, maybe this isn't true.
And they start to provide this new information. Well, the idea is this, the
machine that is carrying the belief is a big, giant, dinosaur, clunky machine.
And if you want to change the belief in that, it doesn't happen just because
somebody said, oh, look, we found something new. It takes time.
The textbooks, for example, are generally 10 to 15 years behind the
discoveries of science. And think about this: epigenetics as a science was only
officially ordained, so to speak, in 1990. And so the relevance is this: it is
taking time to retrain those full belief systems that have become actually
concrete. So there's a time element, a change, a belief that is bought by
everybody.
And then I have to add this because I'm personally involved because I was
doing research in a medical school and being funded and doing my research
through money. I said, "Where does the money come from?" You say, "Well,
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some of it comes from the government, but a large majority of the money
comes from the pharmaceutical industry.
Razi: Yeah.
Dr. Lipton: And I said "Well, what's that?" Well, there's a bias. When an
industry is using its money to do the research. And this is found out to be
true in the British Journal of Medicine, that they did research and they said,
"Look at the same research projects. If it's funded by government money, or if
it's funded by pharmaceutical money. What is the difference in the outcome?"
And this is very important. It turns out when the pharmaceutical money is
funding the system, the results come out four times or more in the favor of the
pharmaceutical industry than when the same research is done with public
money.
And that's because people that get money from a corporation want to get more
money from a corporation. So if you keep writing a story and says, oh, no
pharmaceutical drugs don't do anything, blah, blah, blah. Then they realize oh
my God, how am I going to get funded if I keep denying the action of those
who give me the money?
Razi: Right.
Dr. Lipton: It's not that they're cheating, but it's called cherry picking,
meaning you pick the data that supports what you want to support, and you
ignore the data that conflicts. And then you say, Oh, look. See? My research
reveals this. And I go, well, it's not fully complete research. You have a bias.
And this is an unfortunate situation because the money is a bias. Without the
money the researcher has no job. And then you can see why money becomes
an important part of any research project.
Razi: Well, speaking of project, let's talk about the Human Genome Project.
How does that fit into this?
Dr. Lipton: Well, as I said we came from a belief system that genes control our
biology, that genes are responsible for the proteins. Now, if you have a
defective gene, a blueprint that is not right, then the protein that you will
make from a defective blueprint will by definition be a defective protein.

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And since the proteins are the physical mechanical things that create our
biology, our metabolism, our life, then simple point is a defective gene leads to
a defective protein, which will cause a defect in the behavior or the health of
the system. That's been the belief system.
Also, as I said, genes are blueprints. And the belief going into the Human
Genome Project that it's one gene blueprint is responsible to make one type of
protein. Since there were over a 100,000 proteins before the Genome Project
got off the ground scientists already said, Oh, we know how many genes we're
going to find. We have to find over 100,000 genes, one gene for each of the
proteins.
Well, when the results came inAnd what we know right now at the current
moment is very simply this. And that is there are only about 20,000 genes. I
say "Yeah, but what does that mean"? I go well, if there're over 100,000
proteins and it takes a gene to make a protein, how did you make all those
100,000 proteins from 20,000 genes?
And all of a sudden they realized the entire understanding about genes and
proteins and biology were found to be faulty because they were missing over
80,000 to 100,000 genes in the so-called Human Genome. Well, I like to say
the scientists were caught with their genes down. And they were very
embarrassed. It was like oops.
But the issue is this: that was made aware, about 15 years ago is probably
close, as when they started to really understand that these genes were missing
and it says well, what happened over the 15 years. In the 15 years since the
Genome Project until now it's this transition period that says hey, how can a
belief that we require over 100,000 genes? How can we express health with
20,000 genes?
And the answer is our belief of how genes work. And the influence of the
environment was completely wrong before the Human Genome Project. The
Human Genome Project called these errors to our attention. The result is a
new science of heredity, the one I mentioned, epigenetics. And remember epi
means above.
Razi: Right.
Dr. Lipton: And so the control that we had believed was totally in the genes
now is found to be something different. Now we recognize the control is the
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signals from the environment and from our mind. And as I said, it's hard to
get that big sluggish giant dinosaur machine called healthcare to move on
this. And to me, to be honest, as the research scientist it's a little
embarrassing.
Razi: Yeah.
Dr. Lipton: If you think about this current fact, and let's say today's
treatment of cancer, the primary treatments of cancer are chemotherapy and
radiation. And I go you know what's interesting, after billions of dollars of
research into cancer, the same technology, chemotherapy and radiation, is
being used. This was the same technology in 1930.
And the reality, I just have to give from my perspective as a scientist a very
simple point. Radiation and chemotherapy kill cells that divide. Well, cancer is
like, oh, these cells are dividing out of control and creating these tumors, and
metastasizing. The cells are dividing out of control. So let's poison the cells
and kill the cancer cells: radiation, chemotherapy.
And I go wait a minute, every dayand this is an important factevery day an
average human body loses several hundred billion cells die every day. That's a
natural attrition, natural life. Every day skin cells are dying. Hair cells are
following out. The entire lining of the digestive tract, the entire lining, all the
cells, nearly a trillion cells are replaced every three days.
So now I say wait a minute, when a person has cancer, yes, cancer cells are
dividing out of control, but a cancer person like anybody even though without
cancer, we must replace every day hundreds of billions of cells that are dying
naturally. And if you don't replace those cells you're in a lot of problem.
Oh, now let's go back to chemotherapy and radiation. I say, "Yes, I use these
approaches to kill the dividing cancer cells. And then the important question
comes in. Does chemotherapy and radiation treatment, do they distinguish
between the dividing cancer cells and the normal dividing stem cells that are
replacing the hundreds of billions of cells we use every day? And the answer is
no.
In other words, those treatments kill both the cancer cells and the stem cells. I
go wait, wait, we need to replace the normal cells that are dying, hundreds of
billions every day. And remember what I said. The lining of the digestive tract
which keeps us healthy and intact has to be replace every three days. What do
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you think happens when you do radiation and chemotherapy? You don't just
kill the cancer cells. You're killing all the cancer cells.
The most effective ones are the ones that they affect the most? And I say, "Isn't
it interesting the issues of radiation and chemotherapy primarily affect their
digestive system. Because guess what? Those cells are dividing the fastest.
Razi: Wow!
Dr. Lipton: And as a result, people have all these problems with health
associated with the treatment. And I go very simple point. It's just simple, if
you don't have cancer and you go through radiation and chemotherapy, you
will get sick as a dog. And I go wait, wait, if a normal healthy person gets sick
from this treatment, what about a person who's already compromised? I go,
yeah, that's the problem they're even more compromised now.
And so the idea is this. Our old visionand it's the same old vision now for
almost 90 yearsis to use these poisons. And yet we know that they're
actually are toxic. They're called poisonous. So it's time for us to come up with
a different approach.
Razi: Talking about this kind of Genome Project being fairly recent, but your
discovery when you were cloning stem cells I think was in 1967.
Dr. Lipton: Yes.
Razi: You made some exciting discoveries back then. Why don't you tell us
about that?
Dr. Lipton: Yeah. Let me just very briefly explain it. So that it's like, where
was I in 1967? Well, a) I was in the classroom teaching medical students the
story of genetic control, gene controlled life, the story that most people are
programmed with. And b) I'm in my research lab working with stem cells.
Stem cells are the equivalent of embryotic cells.
And I say, "Well, why don't I call them an embryotic cell? And the answer is
well, before you're born I would call a cell, I would say, "Oh that cell is an
embryotic cell. After you're born there's still embryotic cells. But you're not an
embryo. So I changed the name. Now, it's called a stem cell.
So basically it's an embryotic cell that can replace any of the hundreds of
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billions of cells that are dying every day. So the idea about stem cells is they're
like embryotic cells. So very simply, what was the experiment and what does it
mean? And you can see even a non-biologist can see what I saw, and that was
this. I take one stem cell, put it in a petri dish by itself. That's called cloning.
So I only start with one cell.
And that cell divides every 10 or 12 hours. So, first there's one, and then two,
four, eight. It's doubling, 16, 32. After a week 50,000 cells in the petri dish.
But here's the most important point. All of the cells came from the same
parent. So I end up having what, 50,000 genetically identical cells.
Now, here's where the experiment came and it blew my mind. And it actually
caused me to resign my tenured professorship at the university to walk out
because I realized I was teaching incorrect information. Way back in 1970, I
saw this.
Razi: Wow!
Dr. Lipton: And here's what it was. I have genetically identical cells, 50,000 of
them. I split them into three different petri dishes. Cells grow in a petri dish,
but I have to provide the environment for them. And I said, "Well, what's the
environment? Well, in the lab we call it culture medium. Cells are like fish.
They live in an aquarium culture medium.
I say, "Yeah, but what's the composition of your culture medium? And I go
oh, if I get cells from a mouse, I look at the composition of mouse blood
because the mouse blood is the body's culture medium. And I create a
synthetic version. If I grow human cells, then I look at human blood
composition and create a culture medium based on that.
So here's the point. I synthesize the culture medium and put it in a petri dish.
But that also gives me a chance to change the chemistry a little bit. And here's
what I did. I created three different versions of culture medium, just changing
the chemistry a little bit. So a, b, and c, we'll say.
Now I say I put cells in three culture dishes, labeled them a, b, and c. They're
all genetically identical but the environment, the culture made them slightly
different in each of the cases. And in one dish the cells form muscle. In the
second dish the cells form bone. In the third dish the cells form fat cells.
Now, the question that is so profound from this study is what controls the fate
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of the cells? Well, the first thing is this. They were all genetically identical. So
in three different dishes I have all exact same genes and cells. The only thing
that was different was the composition, the chemistry of the culture medium.
And all of a sudden, and then I said, "Well, what control the fate of the cells?"
They answered not genes. They were all the same.
It was the environment. It was the culture medium composition that
controlled the genetic activity. And you go, oh, the genes didn't control that.
And I go no, it didn't. Now we step back. And I say "So what is the meaning of
all this research"? And I go remember culture medium was based on the
chemical composition of the blood.
So I say, wait, if you look at a humanthis is a little humorous aspect of it
you look in the mirror. You see your beautiful self looking back. You say, "Yes,
I am one human being, one organism. And I go, well, that's a misperception
for a simple reason. Every human being is made out of about 50 trillion cells.
And you say, "So, what does that mean"? And I say, "The cells are the living
entities. A human being by actual definition is a community of 50 trillion
cells."
So the joke is while we see ourselves as one living entity, I say "No, here's
another way to look at yourself. You are a skin-covered petri dish. Inside
under your skin are 50 trillion cells. And they have a culture medium called
blood. And I say the chemical composition of the blood was what was
controlling the genes.
So for a cell, it doesn't make a difference if it's in the plastic dish or in the skin
covered dish, the fate of the cell is controlled by the composition of the culture
medium. In our skin-covered body dishes, that's blood. Then I go, its very
simple. Then the chemistry of your blood is influencing and controlling the
genetic activity. And I go, yes. And what controls the chemistry of the blood?
The brain is the chemist that controls the composition.
And then the next question is the most important one. Well, what chemicals
should a brain put into that blood culture medium? And I go, it's based on the
environmental signals coming into your brain, as well as your mind. Your
perception, what you think about life.
So I'll give you a simple example. You sit there. Your eyes are closed. You open
your eyes. You see someone you love. And I say ah, the mind says love. And it
has that great feeling of love. And I go, well, that great feeling of love is
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actually the mind causing the brain to release chemistry associated with love,
such as dopamine, which is pleasure, oxytocin, which is bonding to the one
you love. Vasopressin is another chemical released by the brain when the
mind is in love, which makes you more attractive. And most importantly,
when you're in love, the mind is saying, Love. The brain responds by
releasing growth hormone, which does what it says.
Well, I say, "What's the relevance of being in love"? And the answer is the
chemistry from the brain of a mind in love is the chemistry that supports
health. And that's why when people fall in love people say, "Oh, look how they
glow. See how healthy they are. They're so in love." And I go, yes, because the
chemistry composition of the culture medium blood from a mind in love
releases these wonderful elements that enhance the genetics and growth and
health of our cells.
Now, the same personand here's the opposite side of the coineyes closed,
now open but sees something that's scares them. I'm going to tell you right
now you're not releasing the chemistry of love now, dopamine and oxytocin,
growth hormone.
When you are afraid or you are in fear, you release stress hormones, cortisol.
You release inflammatory agents that suppress the immune system. You get
yourself ready for fight or flight, run away from the fear. And I go, oh, the
chemical composition of the blood and a healthy person in love is different
than the chemical composition of a person in fear.
And guess what? The fear, the stress, which is really which generates the fear,
sends signals to the body that shut down the growth and maintenance of the
body, interfere with the immune system. In fact, stress hormones are so
involved with suppressing the immune system that when doctors want to
transplant an organ into a foreign personso if I wanted to transplant my
kidney into youyour immune system will say, "Not self," and reject it.
So I say, "Well, what does doctors do when they transplant an organ? And
listen, they give the recipient stress hormones. I said, "Why? Because that
suppresses the immune system so when they transplant the foreign organ, the
immune system is inhibited and doesn't reject the organ right away.
And I go, well, that's a very fundamental therapeutic use, but in the average
human person watches the news, who reads the newspaper, who's concerned
about their job, they're releasing stress hormones all the time. And
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suppressing the immune system and suppressing the growth of the body. And
the net result is illness.
And now we know for a simple fact of the 90% of illness on this planet, be it
cardiovascular disease, be it cancer, even dementiadiabetes type II is
actually 100%all of these things are 90% to 100% consequences of the way
we respond to the world and the chemistry that we release by the brain into
the blood, which controls the fate of the cells.
And then all of a sudden I say "Ah." And this is what the difference is between
the 50% of the women that end up with breast cancer with the BRCA1 gene,
and the 50% of the women that have the gene and don't get the cancer, it was
lifestyle and stresses.
And this is very important because if it comes down to that then the simple
understanding is this: the new science says if those are the cause, which they
recognize, then it says that we have in our own biology an opportunity to
reverse that cancer and come back out healthy without radiation and
chemotherapy and all of that. It opens up the doorway to, I am not
necessarily a victim. I can do something. And through my actions I can
actually reverse the cancer and eliminate it. And that's called a spontaneous
remission.
It's not a miracle. It's spontaneous remission; its a person who has so
profoundly changed their life after finding out they had a terminal illness that
the new beliefs enhance the body's culture medium in the blood with
chemistry that brings health back to the system. And this is what people need
to know.
Razi: So that brings me back to your analogy that I just love about the
blueprints and the architect because it makes me think that you might have a
certain set of blueprints, let's say for my kitchen. But I can go to the architect
and say, "I changed my mind. I want the cabinets here instead.
Dr. Lipton: Yes. Yes. Very important point. Thank you for bringing it up for a
very simple reason. You came with blueprints, but epigeneticsAnd this is a
very important fact. So let's underline this mentally.
Razi: Okay.
Dr. Lipton: And here it is. Epigenetics not only reads the gene and selects
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which genes, but epigenetics can change the readout of the blueprint,
meaning let's say you came with a healthy gene, but you live in a world with
stress and conflict, and all of that. The epigenetic mechanism can rewrite the
gene and make it a mutant pathology.
So it turns out this is where the numbers come in and say about 10% of
cancer actually has a hereditary linkage. Yes, there's some genes that are
being passed through the family that influence the cancer. But 90% of cancer
is actually not due to some predetermined genetics. Ninety percent of people
with the cancer had actually very healthy genes when they came into the
world.
But the way they live their life, the stresses and the lifestyle things that push
on themthis is a number that has been identifiedI can create up to 3,000
different variations of proteins from the same gene blueprint by just changing
the environment. And all of a sudden it says, "Yes, like a contractor, I came
with a set of genes. But I can also rewrite the blueprints.
All of a sudden it says, oh, my goodness, I'm not predisposed to necessarily
have this disease. It's a symptom. Cancer is not the problem. Cancer is the
symptom. It's your body's way of saying you're not in harmony with the world
around you or within yourself.
And then we say, well, let's kill the cancer. And I go well, you can kill the
cancer. But if you didn't change what the problem is, which was not the genes
and the cancer cell; it was the lifestyle, the programing, the developmental
things that we acquired from our familyif we don't change those and we take
all of the cancer cells outAnd I go, yeah, but what's going to happen? I say,
"Well, you still have the same defect.
Razi: Yeah.
Dr. Lipton: It's just going show the cancer back up again or in some other
place. You see, we blame the symptom. And we say, If I get rid of the
symptom, then I'm going to be healthy. And I go, no, the symptom is a
response to something else. And the caner itself, you say, Well, that's the
problem. And I say no, no, the cancer is a consequence of a problem.
So if you focus all of your attention on getting rid of the cancer cells and
saying, Once they're out of here, I'm going to be okay, then I say, Well,
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you've got a little bit of a problem because it wasn't the cancer cells that
initiated the cancer. It was the environment and your perceptions.
So if you don't change those, you're still open to getting the cancer back or
another version of the cancer because the body is trying to say, Look, you
threw out the cancer cells, but we were trying to tell you something with the
cancer. And so you know what it's like, you're driving a vehicle and the
dashboard has all the gauges on it. And you're driving along and the red light
flashes and says "Service Engine Now."
Razi: Yeah.
Dr. Lipton: And I say, "Oh, the damn light is the problem. So if I take out the
lightbulb or I cover up the light, I don't have to see this anymore. So my car is
better. I threw out the light.
I go the cancer is the service engine now light that says you have to do
something. Covering up the cancer, removing the cancer is the same as taking
the light bulb out of the dashboard that says service engine. You think, well,
now the light's not on. I must be healthy. I go no, you cover up that service
engine light you know darned well down the street somewhere that car's going
to breakdown.
Razi: That's another great analogy.
Dr. Lipton: Well, it's so simple. But that's exactly what it is. And this is
wakeup call that says, "I have cancer, wakeup call.
Razi: I want to ask you this. So I also love the idea we're a skin-covered petri
dish.
Dr. Lipton: Yes.
Razi: Could it also be looked at in kind of a macro sort of way that we, our
cell, and our culture medium is the air we breathe, the water we drink, the
earth that we grow our food on, and even the people we have relationships
with?
Dr. Lipton: One hundred percent, all of that. Just your attitude even when
you wake up in the morning. Do you wake up in the morning and go, Oh,
thank God I'm here on this beautiful planet. I love my life. I love what I do. My
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life is so exciting. I'm living the experience of a honeymoon. If you wake up

with that, it's completely different than if you wake-up and go, Oh, God,
another day at the office. Oh, my God, do I have enough money to make it?
Will a job last long enough? What about my retirement? Do I have healthcare
money?
These are fears. And so the idea is this. The two examples I just gave, the one
who wakes up and says, "God, this is the most beautiful thing you could ever
imagine, life on planet earth. They're the least likely ones to get the cancer.
The ones that are living in fear, stress, that their life is under threat, that
whatever it is. I don't have health insurance. I don't have a job
Razi: Even the fear that, oh, I have this gene.
Dr. Lipton: That's the biggest one.
Razi: Yeah.
Dr. Lipton: That's one of the biggest ones because that says already in your
mind oh, my God, I have these genes. And the old story is I don't control the
genes. The genes control me. Then imagine where that person's mind is when
they say, oh, well you have BRCA1 gene, for example. And then I say "Well,
where's that person's mind"? They're sitting there and they're going, oh, I hope
it doesn't turn on today. I hope it doesn't turn on.
And we're waiting. We're waiting for that thing. And that's fear because you're
not looking forward to my future's beautiful and wonderful. You're looking for,
geez, I hope I don't get the cancer. I hope I don't end up in the hospital. And
that, to me, that's when it becomes really important for people to recognize
having the gene and being told you have the gene but having misinformation
that the genes are going to do what they're going to do regardless of your life,
that's the victimization where we have no power. And when we become
powerless, that's when we lose the control of our health.
Razi: Well, let's go into where we do have the power. And I'd like to kind of
start talking about the energetics of that. And I love the way you describe it in
your books and on your blog and in your videos. When you start talking about
how we used to think that the atom was the smallest particle in the universe
and how we discovered by looking deeper and deeper, kind of like that word
epi, above something.
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Dr. Lipton: Yeah.

Razi: That we found that there really is no physicality, that it's all energy. And
what I'd like to segue into now is in naturopathic medicine, we have this tenet,
this philosophy, called the healing power of nature. And we call it the VIS or
the life force. And it's that idea that these trillions of cells are working towards
health, towards homeostasis. That's their natural inclination. But it sounds
very woo-woo to convention.
Dr. Lipton: Yes.
Razi: But yet our whole universe is full of invisible waves of energy. And I
would love for you to explain this.
Dr. Lipton: Yep. There's two ways to look at the universe. The old fashion
way, it's called Newtonian physics. And it says there's an invisible realm with
energy in it and a physical realm made out of matter, such as cells, and
bodies, and molecules, and protein.
In that conventional belief the two realms don't interact with each other. So in
other words, in a Newtonian world we don't offer any power or influence of the
invisible world on the physical world. You're made out of physical molecules,
and youre a physical machine. And the only way you can heal a physical
machine is with other physical molecules.
So that's where the drug companies come in. They say, "Your machine is
broken. We make physical chemicals that can adjust your machinery. And
they leave out mind. Mind has never been a part of our conventional biology
because it's not scientific, meaning in science you have to be able to measure
things and work with things. I go, okay, measure the mind.
And all of the sudden you realize I can't. What the heck is it? It's an energy.
You can see it on the EEG wires on a person's head. You can see these. But
you can't control them. And since they were already presumed that energy
would not affect the physical body, we've let the energy mind, belief, out of the
equation.
Razi: Okay.
Dr. Lipton: Well, that was Newtonian physics. But in 1925 physicists
recognized, as you mentioned, that what we see as matter is an illusion
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because if you take the atom apart and get down to the smallest bits and
pieces that make up an atom, they're like little nano tornadoes of energy.
They're not physical at all.
Now, you see matter because light shines on the matter and it is reflected. But
you can't see the body, the real body, because it's all energy. So I say "Well,
how can I see you"? I say, ah, a light is on. And when the light hits your
surface it's reflected back to the viewer, and therefore I can see you. But I
don't see you. I just see the surface where the light's coming from.
You're actually an invisible entity. Everything made out of matter is invisible.
So in the dark, you can't see anything because there's no reflection of light.
And then you said "But I can feel you. I can physically touch you. And then I
go, listen, the atoms of like little nano tornadoes. They're vortices of energy.
And I go energy is like a tornado. It's not physical.
But I say, "Yeah, guess what a tornado can lift up your house. It can throw a
truck around like it's nothing." And I say, "Why is it relevant?" I say, "If you
push on a tornado it will push back on you. What does that mean? You're
putting your hand out in the empty space. You touch the edge of this tornado.
And guess what? It feels solid because tornado energy is pushing back on you
so you feel like you're pushing against something. And you say, Ah, matter. I
can feel it.
And I go you cannot tell the difference between an invisible energy force like
an atom and so-called concrete that we think of as real matter, even though
that's made out of energy because you can feel them and touch them. So our
illusion is, oh, there's a physical world. And quantum physics in 1925 said
that is an illusion because underneath that physical appearance, there's only
energy. So energy affects energy.
Go [inaudible] because the mind operates by shaping the energy. Our
thoughts are shaped energy and that this energy interacts with the energy of
our cells in quantum physics. So the old story of physics, no that can't
happen. The new story of physics is not that it can't happen. This is the only
way it happens. Energy affects energy.
Well, what's the issue about that? And Im going to tell you right now. If I can
heal you with energy, there's a problem for the pharmaceutical industry. And
that is this. How do they sell it? Can you put that energy healing in a capsule,
a tablet or liquid, or what? How can you sell it? And the answer is you can't.
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And I go well, but the pharmaceutical industry makes money by selling

chemical drugs. And it cannot sell energy.
So ask a simple question. You're the head of a pharmaceutical company and
you say "Hey, what do you think about energy healing? And you go oh man,
that stuff will kill us. We can't sell it. So because the money is so big, it's the
biggest industry on the planet, the pharmaceutical industry. And it's like they
manipulate the belief system.
So their emphasis is to take people, dissuade them from understanding, that
energy is more effective in healing than is chemistry because this is the
principle of making money. Listen, I worked in the industry. That's how it
works.
Razi: Yeah.
Dr. Lipton: Pharmaceutical companies sells physical drugs. And therefore
they have zero interest in energy healing. And since they manipulate the
media, and even people who haven't recognized this, they manipulate the
internet because a lot of people say, oh, I'm going to go to the internet and find
out about my health issue.
And then I'm going to tell you right now, the drug companies pay people 24
hours a day to go over the internet and put in their storyline into the internet
and adjust things like Wikipedia and stuff like that. And so you're not getting
the true information that we thought we would get from the internet because
theyre skewed by the interest of an industry that has become the biggest
financial industry in the world because, well, people are so afraid of their
health they'll buy all the damned products. And that's where we are.
So are we getting the truth? And the answer is only slowly. But it is coming
out in articles, and conventional magazines called TIME and Newsweek and all
that are now beginning to tell us, yes, lifestyle, attitudes, emotions, these are
primary energies that are affecting our biology. And then I go back to this is
not new. People have talked about the placebo effect for 100 years.
What's the placebo effect? I say "Here's this drug that's going to cure you. It's
the most wonder drug ever created. And it's even purple, which is a great color
for a drug. And this is the miracle you've been waiting for. Please take this
drug. And the person takes the drug. They get better and later find out it was
just a sugar pill.
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And I go, well, what's the meaning of the healing? And the answer was, well, it
didn't come from the sugar pill. Where did it come from? And the answer is it
came from the belief in the sugar pill. So I go, oh, yeah, we call that the
placebo. What is it? By definition a positive belief about a drug or a medical
therapeutic action that is supposed to heal us.
We take the drug or go through, let's say the surgery. We get well. And then
we find out later that it wasn't the drug or the surgery that actually healed
you. It was your belief. And we say, ah, yeah, the placebo effect. That's your
mind controlling your biology. And then I go, wow, everybody's familiar with
that.
Now, this is the part, especially cancer patients need to listen to. And that is
this: the placebo effect is based on having a positive belief about a drug or a
therapy. What about a negative belief? Does that have any influence? And this
is like, oh, man, listen to this.
Razi: Okay.
Dr. Lipton: A negative belief is equally powerful in controlling your life as a
positive placebo belief. And the difference is it takes you in the opposite
direction. A negative belief, which in science is called a nocebo effect versus
placebo, nocebo effect is a negative belief can cause virtually every illness and
can kill you only from the belief in the same way that a placebo effect can heal
you from any illness or disease by belief.
And why is this important? Well, we now know from psychology that the
average person on this planet, most of their beliefs, 70% or so or more of their
beliefs are negative, disempowering, and self-sabotaging.
And all of a sudden it says, this belief that you've discounted because you
said, Well, cancer is physical due to physical things, and you've discounted
the belief, guess what? The belief can kill you. The belief can cause a cancer
even if you don't have a cancer. If you totally believe it because of a diagnosis,
you can actually create the cancer.
So our important thing that we're learning in the last few years is we've left the
mind out of biology and medicine. Even though we've known the placebo effect
for 100 years, still medicine doesn't talk about that. They look at the body as a
physical machine. They'll interact with it in a physical way by surgery, or by
drugs, and say that's how you fix it.
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But they left out the most potent control. And that is the mind, the belief, the
attitudes, the emotions because those are the things that are translated into
the chemistry that goes into the blood, the culture medium. And as my
experiment showed in 1967, the fate of the cell is controlled by the chemistry.
And then I say, yeah, but that chemistry is related to your mind. And all of a
sudden I said, well, then if you want to change the chemistry I can give you a
drug in your body, or I can help you change your mind. And that's the
resolution. Thats the best one. Placebo does not have side effects, for
example.
Razi: Oh, I also loveI'm taking a kind of an aside here, but I love how you
say there are no side effects, only effects.
Dr. Lipton: Yes, that's a problem because you take a drug. And the front page
of the drug medicine information sheet that goes with the drug says, oh, this
drug is designed to take care of problem A. And I go that's really cool. You can
take the drug and then there's five, six pages of, well, if you take this drug,
there are these things called side effects. They range from everything to death.
Ive got to tell you.
You're actually telling the patient when you give them the drug well fine, but
you could die from taking this drug. But it's very small print, so we don't bring
it up very much. But the reality is it's not a side effect. That's euphemistic.
That's why I said, oh, that's not a problem because it's a direct effect. The
drug interacts with more sites in the body than the one we intended it interact
with.
I'll give a very simple example. Women, after they reach menopause the
estrogen levels in their body stop. And then they go through the menopause.
And it has a profound emotional and physiological impact on the estrogen. So
they say, "Oh, we'll give them estrogen and they'll get better.
And then I say, "Let's talk for a second because the belief now is estrogen
only affects the reproductive system of behavior. And I go ,well, estrogen is a
very important part of a mans physiology. I go what's it doing in men? I go ah,
the receptors for estrogen are found in the heart and in the brain. And they
regulate the blood flow.
So estrogen not only has an effect on reproduction. It has an effect on the
blood flow in the heart and the brain. I go and what was the consequence of
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the hormone replacement therapy? Well, they stopped it. I say "Why"? Because
of the side effects. Were what? Heart attacks and strokes. And I go that's not a
side effect. Every male and female uses estrogen for the vascular control. And
the female uses the estrogen for the reproductive thing.
So when you get a drug saying, oh, I only want the estrogen to effect the
reproductive organs, unfortunately when you put the estrogen in the system,
it also went to the heart and it went to the brain. And there it has a different
function. And so when they started to see that the side effects were lethal,
then finally they stopped giving a hormone replacement therapy. But they
recognized this: they gave a very long time and only indicated as a side effect
that would have an influence on cardiac function and brain function.
And it's not a side effect. It's the direct effect of estrogen on these other sites
that are not related to reproduction. So if you give somebody estrogen, is it a
side effect? I say, "No. If I gave them estrogen, it's going to affect both of them."
So it's not a side effect it's a direct effect.
Razi: And that's, again speaking to the programming you talked about.
Because we are programmed to accept a certain percentage of these side
effects as the cost of health. We've been programmed to say, "Okay, this is
okay to have these effects. It's negative effect."
Dr. Lipton: A very interesting fact that few people want to talk about, but it's
like here's a fact that up to 300,000 people a year die from taking prescription
drugs because of side effects. And I say, "What's relevant about that? They
say, "My God, the number of people who die from taking illegal drugs, that
might be 30,000 versus 300,000." And we have this war on illegal drugs
because of the few people. And I think it's less than 30,000.
And I say, "And what about the 300,000 that die from taking conventional
prescriptions? We go, well, we call that, and I use this term loosely and yet
they use it. And they say, "That's the cost of doing medicine." Oh, I'm sorry,
you died from the drug? Yeah, but not all the people died from the drug. And I
go, how can you write that about 300,000 people and call that normal when
illegal drugs only kill 30,000 people?!
So again, it's in defense of a pharmaceutical industry. And I'm not very
supportive of that. It's not that some drugs aren't good. But the massive
amount of drugs that they push on the public every 15 minutes on television
and advertisement, its going to try to sell you a drug. And it's like our answers
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that all we need to do is take the drug, has been one of the biggest problems
in the world because it denies that the person has any ability to change their
health outside of taking that drug.
And what the truth is now we realize that people are the most powerful source
of their own healing except that their belief says I cannot heal myself. That
would be a nocebo effect, a negative belief. And being equally powerful, the
placebo, like I said, this drug is going to heal me and I got healed. Or I can say
this drug is not going to heal me and I won't get healed. And it turns out it
had nothing to do with the drug, but everything with your attitude about the
drug.
And we are taking people's attitudes and saying no, no, your health is
controlled by genes and you have nothing to do with it. And that's
disempowering to the highest level because it makes people less responsible
for taking care of their health. It's like, Well, I've got the genes. So why make
a big effort? I already got the genes. So I'm going to have the problem.
That's a belief system. And that belief system, being a negative nocebo belief,
actually interferes with people's healing because the mind is not even
encouraging healing. In fact, what is the mind encouraging with that belief? I
am going to have this disease and I'm going to go through whatever the
prognosis of that disease is. They've already given up when that happens.
Razi: Is positive thinking enough? How do we harness the power of our mind
to change our biology and to prevent disease?
Dr. Lipton: Okay. Well, this is a very important point. And I'm glad you
brought it up for a very simple reason. Here's what the point is, and that is,
that there are two minds. And we say, The mind. And I go, no, no, there are
two minds. There's a conscious mind and a subconscious mind. They both
work together and they integrate their activities. But they're different.
The conscious mind is connected to your personal identity, to your spirit. Who
you are is the conscious mind. It's very creative. And that's what makes
humans rise above other animals because we have a creative conscious mind
that can have imagination and thinking.
The subconscious mind, which is what almost all animals have, is a mind that
works like stimulus/response: push the button, create the behavior. Learn a
behavior, a habit, and every time you push the button you play the behavior
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again. It's not thinking. All it does is just play programs. And I go okay. And
you say, Well, I'm not going to use my subconscious mind. I'm going to create
[inaudible] with my conscious mind because that has wishes and desires.
So if I say, "Razi, tell me what you want out of your life, the answer you give
me is creative and by definition comes to the conscious mind. Oh, I want to
be healthy. I want to be happy. I want to be in love. Great. Here is the biggest
problem in the world. And that is this: the conscious mind is like manual
control. You've got your hands on the wheel. You're driving the vehicle.
The subconscious mind is on autopilot. If you let go of the wheel you can have
the vehicle drive itself. So I say, "Yeah, because the programs in the
subconscious mind [inaudible] drive a car, how to do a job that you do.
Anything that you learn from repetition becomes the program.
Here now is what I was trying to get to. And that is this. The conscious mind
is not only creative; it can think. So I ask you, What are you doing Thursday
at 3:00? If you actually try to answer the question, you have to realize this.
You have to go inside your head. The answer isn't in front of you. It's inside
your head. You have to think.
I go oh, if conscious mind is thinking ,it goes inside your head. They stop
paying attention to what's going on around you. So if you're driving a car and
you're thinking about things or having conversations with somebody using
your creative conscious mind and getting into a wonderful conversation, you
probably at some point look out the window and then realize you haven't paid
attention to the road for the last five minutes while you were in the
conversation.
Razi: Right.
Dr. Lipton: I go, well, who was driving the car? And the answer was, well, not
the conscious mind. The conscious mind was having the confrontation. I say
subconscious mind. And don't get nervous. Subconscious mind's a million
times more powerful a computer than the conscious mind. It can drive better.
The subconscious drives better than your conscious mind drives.
Okay, here's the problem. If the programs in your subconscious mind do not
support you, which are the developmental programs primarily that we got
before age 7, and we play those programs, then by definition our lives cannot
be healthy and happy because the programs are disempowering us.
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And you say "Yeah, but I'm not going to play those programs. And then here's
come the fact. Scientists recognize that our minds are in thought about 95%
of the time. And therefore, then, 95% of your life is not coming from wishes
and desires. It's actually coming from the subconscious. If you got negative
programs in the beginning, then during 95% of the day you're playing negative
programs without you even knowing it or seeing it.
In my lectures, I give this little story. And most people laugh. So to me it's a
story that most people understand. I say, "Perhaps you had a friend you were
very, very close with. You knew your friend's behavior very, very well. And you
happen to know your friend's parent. And one day you see your friend has the
exact same behavior as their parent. You get all excited. It's like, oh, my God.
You volunteer. You go, Hey, you know, Bill, you're just like your dad.
Then, yes, you back away from Bill. Bill goes ballistic. How can you compare
me to my dad? And I say this is the most profound story for everybody online
right now for this reason. Everybody else can see that Bill behaves like his
dad. The only one who doesn't see it is Bill.
I'll explain it. A) He got the behavior from his dad because in the first seven
years of his life the subconscious was being programmed hypnotically by
observing your parents, siblings and community and downloading their
behavior. So the fundamental download and the subconscious about behavior
he got from his father. But how come he doesn't see it when he's doing that?
And I go how come he's planning the subconscious? And the answer is
because 95% of the day we're in thought. We let go of the wheel. The default
control, the autopilot subconscious kicks in. The behavior is being played. But
you're the one that doesn't see it because the reason you're playing it is
because you're thinking. And yet maybe sometimes you do see it.
Sometimes it sneaks through and you go, oh, my God, I was behaving just like
my mom. Or I was just behaving like my dad. And you look at it. And it's
almost like, I can't believe that. But the reality is that's 95% of our life. So the
issue is, yeah, I have positive thoughts. I have positive ideas about healing
and taking care of myself. And I go and precisely how much time during the
day are you exercising those positive thoughts?
And from science we know about 5%. That means 95% of your thoughts are
not positive thoughts supporting your health. Ninety-five percent is coming
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from those programs. As I said, this is how the child that got adopted into a
family with cancer ends up with cancer because 95% of the day they're
playing the same dysfunctional program that is passing the cancer down
through the family. And so they receive the program. They didn't receive the
genes. And their life can manifest the cancer.
So the whole idea is this: the belief that we are controlling in our life with
conscious mind wishes and desires is not necessarily true. And, in fact, for
most people that only works 5% of the day. And yet my book called The
Honeymoon Effect says what happens when you fall in love?
And this is interesting because when people fall in love, it turns out that
period called the honeymoon where life is beautiful, where you are healthy,
you're robust, you're glowing, that life is so exciting, that everything is so
loveable, everything is like, oh, my God, Heaven on earth, it turns out that
that special period of life called the honeymoon where everything is perfect is
the one time in your life where you don't default to the subconscious.
You stay what is called mindful. And when you say mindful, that means
you're operating from what? Wishes and desires. And I say, "What is the result
from operating from wishes and desires? The answer is Heaven on earth.
And I say "Yeah, and the honeymoon ends. I say, "Why? Because you get
busy. And then once you start getting busy, youve got work, jobs, chores,
kids. Your mind starts to think about all these things. And then guess what?
You're [inaudible] a life run by the autopilot, the subconscious. And that takes
you back to regular life. So it's real interesting to say, yeah, positive thinking
is great. But if you only use it about 5% of the day, its not very effective.
Razi: I see a little bit of a parallel in this, too. At one point in my life, I was a
hypnotherapist. And I found people that came to me for pain, they responded
fantastic because they were motivated. They wanted to be out of pain. But the
people that came to me to quit smoking, a large percentage of them I would
say really didn't want to quit smoking. They wanted to be able to tell their
spouse or whatever, their partner that, hey, I've tried everything.
And so when you talk about these belief systems and then desire, for instance,
desire to have a loving relationship, it just reminded me of that time where I
felt it wasn't so much that hypnotherapy isn't successful, but they just didn't
have the desire to make the change.
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Dr. Lipton: Well, the problem, again, is while their conscious mind might
have the desire, you have to recognize that the behavior that plays from the
subconscious mind in no way has to match or complement the conscious
mind. That's where the two separate from each other. That's where the
problem comes in.
So I consciously go, oh, wow, I really want to quit smoking. And I go that's
great. Ninety-five percent of the day, you are kicking into habit mind
subconscious. Well, the habit of smoking is a habit. So basically, 95% of the
day, the subconscious mind is saying, Yeah, okay these cigarettes are not
bad. Look, I've been doing it all my life. Blah, blah, blah.
Even though the conscious mind in the background is going I don't want to do
this, it realizes that the overpowering control 95% of the day is not coming
from that wish of not smoking. It is coming from a habit of smoking. And this
is where the problem comes in is that we can justify everything based on the
habit. But it's not really who you are.
And alsoand here comes the big oneit's frustrating. It's frustrating to say,
Okay, I'm in charge. Don't smoke that cigarette. And then two minutes later
there's a cigarette in your hand. How the heck did that happen? I just said,
"Don't smoke it. I go, yeah, because that was one of that [inaudible] that you
just said don't smoke. And then 10 seconds later, the subconscious mind,
says, oh, have a cigarette. And you have a cigarette.
And the conscious mind is not even there at that moment. It only wakes up
later and goes, What the hell are you doing with a cigarette?! And the reality
was because the conscious mind was busy, and that's when the cigarette
came back in again.
Razi: So how do we override these habits and these thoughts and these fears
in the context of prevention so we can make these lifestyle changes, so we can
choose different thoughts and different behaviors?
Dr. Lipton: Yeah. The first thing and the most important thing is recognizing
that you have these behaviors that are operating independently of your wishes
and desires. If you know that they're thereAnd remember for, like Bill,
they're invisible to most people.
So most people when you talk to them have no perception that their behavior
is undermining them because if it's coming from the subconscious with
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negative programs and not being visible to them, then they don't even see that
they're sabotaging themselves because in their mind, Why would I do that?
Well, that's what the conscious mind would say.
So the point becomes very critical. Knowledge is power. A lack of knowledge is
a lack of power. What we've been talking about, Razi, on this program is you
have had a lack of knowledge about how it works. And you don't even realize
that you're not even running your life according to your wishes and desires,
except for those moments such as when you fall in love.
And so the relevance about this is the first thing is to recognize that most of
the behavior you have during the day is not necessarily supporting you. A way
around it, of course, is to be in relationships with people where you don't get
mad at them when they tell you the truth about what you just said because a
lot of people get, oh, I'm personally offended because you said I was this or
that. And it's like, yeah, but you were, but you didn't see it.
So it's not people trying to tear you apart. It's people trying to bring to your
consciousness your behavior is not supporting. Since the primary way of
putting new behaviors in after age seven is repetition or habituation, every
time you get caught in a behavior and someone alerts you to it or you see it
yourself and you say, "Stop! What are you doing? you're creating a new habit.
And this is very important because you have to keep stopping the old one
enough times that the mind learns the habit and says, oh, don't play that old
tape because every time I play it the new command is don't play it. At some
point it learns. And then the old tape doesn't play anymore because the new
program says don't play the tape, wins.
So habituation. But you have to be observant of it and that's very hard for
people because, as I said, subconscious plays invisibly. And if nobody is going
to bring up the fact of, Did you hear what you just said? or something like
that? And I say, "What do you mean? I say, "Well, you just said well that will
never work.
And that didn't necessarily come from the conscious mind. That's just an old
behavior that says things don't work for me. And I said, "That will never work."
And I go I didn't hear myself saying that. My partner here says it to me. And I
go, Oh, my goodness. Well, I don't mean that. I want it to work. It will work. It
will work. And I change the program.
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Every time I change it, It will work, then the conversation in the future
doesn't say, This won't work. It says, It will work. And that is a step to
make it happen because if the mind says it won't work, that for sure will
interfere from anything you're trying to do. So you can reprogram the
subconscious mind. But you have to see, well, what are the programs that you
already have.
Razi: Okay.
Dr. Lipton: Because you got programmed before you were age seven. The
program started even before you were born. While you were in the last
trimester of pregnancy when you were a fetus, you were being programmed.
And so I just want to help people with this. So they say, well, oh, my God,
then I don't know what the programs are because I don't remember what
happened when I was one, two, or three even. And these were when the
programs were coming in.
So you say, well, how can I know what the programs are because I wasn't
conscious when the programs were being made? I go, Simple. You ready?
And the answer is this. It is recognizing that your subconscious is running
your life 95% of the time. Simple fact. Your life is a printout of your
subconscious programs, meaning look at your life.
And it goes this way. Anything you like that comes into your life and you're
very happy with it, it comes in because you have programs in your
subconscious to support that being in your life. But this is the one I want you
to listen to. Anything you struggle at, anything you have to put a lot of effort
in to make happen, anything you work hard over, sweat over, why are you
putting so much effort into making this happen?
And the answer is inevitably what you're trying to accomplish is not supported
by the belief system in your subconscious. And your conscious effort is trying
to override the negative subconscious program. That's why you work so hard.
So all of a sudden he says, oh good, we just saved lots of hours at the
psychiatrist and the psychologist, lots of tissues where you cry over the old
experiences, saying, I don't have to review the old experiences. My life is a
program playing itself out. And I just look at my life.
And, again, those things I like, don't worry about it. That program is in there.
And that's why you have that, those that come into your life. But those things
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that you want and you desperately work hard to accomplish, ah, different
story. That's because you have a program that's preventing it. So we can save
a lot of time on that.
Razi: That's fascinating. And when you said printout, it made me think of 3D
printing.
Dr. Lipton: Yeah. Well, it's a printout because your life is playing programs
95% of the time. So you're manifesting a subconscious program. Listen,
darling, I'm going to have to shorten this a little bit now. Not that I want to
because I could do this another 12 hours.
Razi: I know I could, too.
Dr. Lipton: If people go to my website, which is very simple, BruceLipton.com,
under resources or one of those columns in there, there's lots of YouTube
videos, lots of written papers, interviews, and things like that, where the
things we've been talking about can be reviewed and you can get information.
Razi: Yes. And I want everyone to be sure to visit BruceLipton.com for more
information on everything we've been talking about, his books, The Biology of
Belief, which I think you have your 10-year anniversary edition now.
Dr. Lipton: Yes.
Razi: And the most recent book The Honeymoon Effect. And both these books
can really help people to create the lives they want, the health they want, and
the relationships that they want, as well.
Dr. Lipton: I really believe they can. So I hope people take an opportunity to
get a chance and look at it. I want to thank you very much for giving me the
opportunity to talk to your community because my whole idea behind this is
to give the knowledge that can re-empower the individual because we have
that belief of being frail and vulnerable, which is totally not true.
Razi: Thank you so much, Dr. Lipton.
Dr. Lipton: I appreciate it. So thank you.
Razi: Okay. Bye-bye.

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