UPDATED - EXCLUSIVE Transcripts of Whistleblower Testimonies As Targeted Individuals of U.S. Sponsored Mind Control and Related Hearings and Lectures, September 17, 2016

Published by the Advanced Media Group and Stan J.
Caterbone Copyright 2016
Stan J. Caterbone
ADVANCED MEDIA GROUPFreedom
From Covert Harassment & Surveillance,

Registered in Pennsylvania
1250 Fremont Street

Lancaster, PA 17603
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stancaterbone@gmail.com
EXCLUSIVE Transcripts of Whistleblower Testimonies as

Targeted Individuals of U.S. Sponsored Mind Control and
Related Hearings and Lectures
Published by Advanced Media Group September 17, 2016
______________________________________
TABLE OF CONTENTS
1. Background of Stan J. Caterbone as a Targeted Individual
2. In Contravention of Conventional Wisdom CIA No-Touch Torture Makes
Sense, by Cheryl Welsh 2008
3. Allstate Sworn Testimony of Stan J. Caterbone TRANSCRIPT Volume 2 and

Volume 1 July 12, 2016
4. Transcript of the Richmond City Council Public Hearing of May 19, 2015
Passing a City Resolution 5-2 to Ban Spaced-Based Weapons in Support of the
Many Targeted Individuals Suffering Symptoms of the City.
5. Karen Stewart, NSA Whistleblower and Targeted Individual

6. Julianne McKinney, US Army Intelligence Officer, Whistleblower, and
Targeted Individual
7. 8. Stan J. Caterbone and Advanced Media Group Executive Summary

8. Dr. Nick Begich, Author and Expert Researcher of U.S. Sponsored Mind Control
9. 1975 TESTIMONY FROM DIRECTOR OF CIA STANSFIELD TURNER for the 1975
United States Senate Select Hearings on Mkultra
10. Proposed U.S. Government Settlement for TI via Change.org Petition by Stan
J. Caterbone and Advanced Media Group March 17, 2016 with Affidavit and
Kane Op Ed Letter Sent to President Obama
U.S. Sponsored Mind Control
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and Stan J. Caterbone Copyright 2016
Stan J. Caterbone
ADVANCED MEDIA GROUP
Freedom From Covert Harassment & Surveillance,

1250 Fremont Street

Lancaster, PA 17603
__________________________________
EXCLUSIVE Transcripts of Whistleblower Testimonies as
Targeted Individuals of U.S. Sponsored Mind Control and
Related Hearings and Lectures
________________________________
June 2, 2016
BACKGROUND
Stan J. Caterbone's International Signal & Control or ISC Whistleblowing History and Mind
Control Relationships are outlined in the following statements and declarations, which have already
been proven and verified and have never been specifically contested in any court of law:
Stan J. Caterbone was a Federal Whistleblower in 1987 regarding ISC
The 29 False Arrests and Prosecutorial Misconduct that Stan J. Caterbone was subject to in 1987
through 2015 was an effort to cover-up the allegations made by Stan J. Caterbone in the Spring and
Summer of 1987 after the Meeting of June 23, 1987 with ISC and United Chem Con Executive Larry
Resch.
The ISC Fraud and Sales of Arms to Iraq Story by the ABC News Nightline with Ted Koppel and the
Financial Times of London in May, July, and September of 1991 was most likely initiated or was
corroborated by Lancaster Newspapers reporter Thomas Flannary.
Thomas Flannary's mysterious death in February of 2004 was either murder or was a cover story to
hide the fact that he was a CIA operative used to control the flow of information, disinformation, and
propaganda. It is highly subject that he began his career with Lancaster Newspapers in 1987 and is not
a native Lancastrian.
The ISC merger was not completed until December of 1987, 3 months after the False Arrests of Stan
J. Caterbone.
MindSponsored
U.S.
Control Transcripts
Mind Control
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The official meeting with the Pennsylvania Securities Commission Agent Howard Eisler in September of
1987, which was solicited by Agent Eisler was an effort to illegally interrogate Stan J. Caterbone without
a legal subpoena.
In the months after the June 23, 1987 meeting with ISC Executive Larry Resch Stan J. Caterbone had
personally solicited a vast array of local, state, and federal officials, including the FBI and Congressman
Robert Walker, PA State Representative Gibson Armstrong for assistance in the retaliation and slander
campaign that was in progress. There is credible linkage between the ISC Scandal, U.S. Sponsored
Mind Control, Stan J. Caterbone's family VICTIMIZATION of the same, and the participation of
LANCASTER COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA.
The Zook Murder Appeal proves that Lancaster County Detective Michael Landis, Judge James Cullen,
and Judge Farina of the Lancaster County Court of Common Pleas were all involved in U.S. Sponsored
Mind Control before 2004 and before Stan J. Caterbone went public with his VICTIMIZATION of U.S.
Sponsored Mind Control.
Bobby Ray Inman, former director of the National Security Agency (NSA) was on the Board of
Directors of ISC and was involved in U.S. Sponsored Mind Control Technologies through his company
S.A.I.C. Corporation. Bobby Ray Inman would later be selected by Former President Bill Clinton for his
Director of Defense, but would later remove himself due to allegations and public scrutiny for his role in
the ISC scandal.
In the Fall of 1991 Robert Gates was nominated for Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
and during his televised confirmation hearings the was subject to brutal array of questions concerning
his participation in the ISC scandal. He went on to be nominated and later would serve both the Bush
Administrations and the Obama Administrations as Secretary of Defense until resigning in 2011.
There have been at least 3 documented attempts on the life of Stan J. Caterbone; 1987, 1991, and
2004, all attempts at vehicular homicide. Thomas P. Caterbone's passing in 1996 was the result of a
wrongful death claim by Fulton Bank. Samuel A. Caterbone was most likely an KULTRA murder tactic in
Santa Barbara, California on December 25, 1984. Samuel P. Caterbone was most likely the result of an
MKULTRA murder tactic on July 20,2001 in New York city.
The above finding of facts and evidence corroborates a vast conspiracy and criminal enterprise that
violates both civil and criminal RICO statutes and antitrust statutes.
The above would constitute treble damages for Stan J. Caterbone and Advanced Media Group in U.S.
District Courts, specifically in the Eastern District for Pennsylvania Case No. 05-2288, 06-4650, 1402559, and other related cases; and Case No. 08-13373 in the Lancaster County Court of Common
Pleas.
MindSponsored
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In Contravention of Conventional Wisdom

CIA no touch torture makes sense
out of mind control allegations
By Cheryl Welsh
January 2008
Cheryl Welsh was invited to speak about mind control allegations at a recent
workshop on ethics and interrogations by the workshop director, Jean Maria Arrigo PhD.
Dr. Arrigo commented on this article:
In CIA No Touch Torture Makes Sense Out of Mind Control Allegations,
Cheryl Welsh provides a valuable overview of methods common to
neuroweapons research and torture interrogation. Her essay is informed by
the multitude of self-identified, experimental targets of neuroweapons
researchers whom she represents. Scholars and journalists who are only able
to track neuroweapons research and interrogation methods through
government documents have biased the consensus reality in favor of
government authorities who deceive the public. We owe thanks to Cheryl
Welsh and her colleagues for their pioneering efforts to penetrate government
deception through the phenomenology of self-identified victims of
neuroweapons.
Jean Maria Arrigo, PhD, is an independent social psychologist and oral historian whose
work gives moral voice to military and intelligence professionals. See, for example,
Arrigo, J.M & Wagner, R. (2007). Torture Is for Amateurs: A Meeting of Psychologists
and Military Interrogators. [Special issue]. Peace and Conflict, 11 (4).
Dedicated to the courageous and kind-hearted

Peggy Fagan of Houston, Texas,
who is enduring the new scientific version of torture.
Page 4 of 548
Table of contents
Introduction
I. A university professor uncovers CIA no touch torture
II. The beginnings of CIA no touch torture and how it spread
III. What is no touch torture?
IV. An example of no touch torture
V. The long history of U.S. torture
VI. CIA Cold War neuroscience-based mind control research
VII. CIA Cold War nonlethal weapons research
VIII. Why CIA no touch torture has been so successful
IX. All three programs are state tools for neutralizing the enemy
without killing; for intelligence operations and counterinsurgency
warfare
X. Mind control allegations by a Korean War POW, (prisoner of war),
a Soviet political prisoner and Abu Ghraib detainees
XI. The banal and bizarre techniques of no touch torture
XII. The three key behavioral components of no touch torture
XIII. Torture as a kind of total theater
XIV. A comparison of no touch torture to mind control allegations
XV. The phenomenology of the torture situation
XVI. Comparing no touch torture techniques of sensory disorientation
and self inflicted pain to mind control allegations
XVII. Conclusions: what everyone can agree on
Page 5 of 548
Introduction
After the horrific pictures of prisoners being tortured at Abu Ghraib were displayed in front pages of
newspapers around the world, the United States maintained that the U.S. government does not
torture; Abu Ghraib was about a few bad officers. Evidence now proves that CIA no touch torture
and worse were ordered by the executive branch and approved by top military officers. Surprisingly
this scandal has much in common with another national security issue, neuroweapons, commonly
referred to as mind control.
The field of neuroethics should begin now, according to bioethicist Dr. Jonathan Moreno in his 2006
book Mind Wars, Brain Research and National Defense. The influential book was reviewed in
Nature and JAMA (Journal of American Medical Association). Most neuroscientists agree that
advanced neuroweapons are over a half century away but the ethics of the new weapons need more
planning than occurred for the atomic bomb. Moreno began the first chapter of his book describing
the growing numbers of allegations of illegal government mind control targeting. He immediately
dismissed them as conspiracy theory nut cases. A 2007 Washington Post Magazine article,
Thought Wars followed suit. So why should anyone read further given these credible and highly
respected expert opinions?
Much of what the public should know about the issue has gone unreported or uninvestigated. For
example, after over a half century of classified research, not one publicly known neurological weapon
has been deployed. This raises more questions than it answers. Putting aside the major and
undebated points of the consensus position, the mind control allegations do sound crazy and on this
singular point, most people, including experts and news reporters refuse any closer examination.
Clearly, understanding why the mind control allegations sound so crazy would have significant
consequences.
Two analogies help clarify the major problems for the mind control issue, secrecy and the lack of a
thorough, impartial investigation;
Excerpt of a 1970s congressional hearing uncovering illegal CIA activities; [Senator Frank]
Church, ... persisted in blaming the plots [assassinations] on the CIA. The agency, he said, was
a rogue elephant on a rampage. For proof, he pointed to the lack of documentary evidence
that any president had ever approved an assassination. Former CIA director Richard Helms
countered that it was absurd to expect to find such evidence. I cant imagine anybody wanting
something in writing saying I have just charged Mr. Jones to go out and shoot Mr. Smith, he
testified. The Agency, he insisted, had simply carried out the wishes of the executive.
Even today, experts dont understand how the U.S. secrecy system works. Similar to the torture
scandal, until there is a national security scandal about neuroscience weapons, the public will
remain uninformed about a serious public issue.
During a dairymans strike in 19th century New England, when there was suspicion of milk
being watered down, Henry David Thoreau wrote; Sometimes circumstantial evidence can be
quite convincing; like when you find a trout in the milk. Mind Wars and the Washington Post
Magazine article examined the growing numbers of crazy sounding mind control allegations.
Page 6 of 548
But unlike Thoreaus account, the publications only reported the convincing circumstantial
evidence of finding a trout in the milk and dismissed the suspicions without a fair or
impartial investigation. As a result, the mind control allegations made no sense.
Update: In the 2008 book The Commission, the Uncensored History of the 9-11 Investigation,
Philip Shenon explained that explicit, very classified kill orders are now put in writing. On page
254 Shenon wrote: MONs [memorandum of notification] were top-secret orders prepared by the
White House to authorize covert operations abroad by the CIA. ... there was an explicit, if highly
secret, order given by Clinton to the CIA in late 1998 to kill bin Laden.
I. A university professor uncovers CIA no touch

torture
University of Wisconsin professor Alfred McCoy wrote the 2006 book, A Question of Torture, CIA
Interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror. Its a compelling account of McCoys search
for understanding the CIAs no touch torture techniques used in the war on terror and the Iraq
War. McCoy shows how information extracted by coercion is worthless and makes the case for a
legal approach, long and successfully used by the U.S. Marines and the F.B.I. McCoy documents
why CIA no touch torture is a revolutionary psychological approach and is the first new scientific
innovation after centuries of torture. Interrogators had found that mere physical pain, no matter
how extreme, often produced heightened resistance. Of course, the old brutal forms of physical
torture are still around, for example torture in Argentina in the 1970s described in the classic,
Prisoner Without a Name, Cell without a Number by Jacobo Timerman.
McCoy pieced together what no touch torture is and how it was spread globally. The CIAs new no
touch torture works by attacking and destroying the basis of personal identity. McCoy found that
the techniques were bizarre, simple, even banal and yet devastatingly effective. McCoy discovered
that the techniques had been scientifically proven in decades of CIA cold war research. Evidence of
several government manuals helped prove that the techniques were disseminated from Vietnam
through Iran to Central America.
No touch torture techniques sound strangely similar to mind control allegations. A comparison of
no touch torture to mind control allegations raised the possibility that mind control allegations
could be based on the well researched psychological theory for no touch torture. Torture victims
exhibit symptoms similar to psychotic processes and organic disorders and experts say this is not
mental illness but an outcome of the psychological component of torture. Psychotherapist Otto
Doerr-Zegers, who has treated Chilean victims tortured under General Augusto Pinochet stated;
The psychological component of torture becomes a kind of total theater, a constructed unreality of
lies and inversion, in a plot that ends inexorably with the victims self-betrayal and destruction. ...
This is similar to the technique of street theater that mind control victims described in the
Washington Post Magazine article. As torture victims are not mentally ill, mind control victims
would not be mentally ill but rather have undergone and are undergoing a traumatic situation
comparable to torture, such as the alleged illegal targeting with government mind control weapons.
Page 7 of 548
The UCDavis Center for the Study of Human Rights in the Americas (CSHRA) and the UCDavis
Center for Mind and Brain (CMB) further explain what psychological torture is and its effects on
torture victims.
[CSHRA and CMB] have initiated a collaboration to investigate theneurobiology of
psychological torture. ...Psychological torture (henceforthPT) is a set of practices that are
used worldwide to inflict pain or suffering without resorting to direct physical violence.
PT includes the use of sleep deprivation, sensory disorientation, forced self-induced pain,
solitary confinement, mock execution, severe humiliation, mind-altering drugs and
threats of violenceas well as the exploitation of personal or cultural phobias.
The psychiatric sequelae of PT are severe. They include delirium, psychosis, regression,
self-mutilation, cognitive impairment, and anxiety disorders, including post-traumatic
stress disorder. Neuroscience research on these and related mental disorders continues
to establish their neurobiological underpinnings, thus challenging the popular view that
PT is not physical, not serious, and perhaps not even torture at all.
The CSHRA and the CMB launched their collaborative efforts by holding The First
UCDavis Workshop on the Neurobiology of Psychological Torture. The goal of this
workshop was to bring together researchers and practitioners from different specialties
and research groups in order to set off a unified, long-term, research program on the
ways in which PT affects the human central nervous system in an effort to understand it
in relation to the more traditional forms of physical torture, and to establish clearly
articulated ethical, legal, and medical descriptions of this set of practices. It is expected
that these descriptions will help treat, document, and deter PT.
Supplemented by studies on the social, historical, and ethical ramifications of PT, the
presentations made at The First UCDavis Workshop on the Neurobiology of
Psychological Torture have been bound into The Trauma of Psychological Torture, a
volume to be published by Praeger on June 30, 2008.
Please note that numerous torture experts, including CSHRA and CMB have completely shunned
suggestions to investigate mind control allegations or to consider the issue. But this information may
be helpful to the therapists of TIs (targeted individuals of mind control) who are coping with mind
control targeting.
Page 8 of 548
II. The beginnings of CIA no touch torture and how it

spread
The science of psychological torture began because of fears of Russian brainwashing of defendants in
the 1940s Moscow show trials and the Korean War POW (prisoners of war) brainwashing scare in
the 1950s. The 2005 book, World as Laboratory, Experiments with Mice, Mazes, and Men by
Rebecca Lemov described government psychological research for determining whether the
Communists had developed new techniques of brainwashing. Almost all [scientists] who were
assigned to study the phenomenon of POW collaboration ended up in short order working for the
CIA via one of its various cut-outs, conduits, and false fronts, such as the Society for the
Investigation of Human Ecology, the Geschickter Fund for Medical Research, and the Scientific
Engineering Institute, or in one of its own laboratories. (Lemov, 219) McCoy described the research
behind no touch torture and how it spread globally;
From 1950 to 1962, the CIA became involved in torture through a massive mind-control
effort, with psychological warfare and secret research into human consciousness that
reached a cost of a billion dollars annually, a veritable Manhattan Project of the mind. ...
If we trace a narrative thread through a maze of hundreds of experiments, the CIA
research moved through two distinct phases, first an in-house exploration of exotic
techniques such as hypnosis and hallucinogenic drugs, and, a later focus on behavioral
experimentation by contract researchers, several of the most brilliant behavioral
scientists of their generation ...
While this Agency drug testing led nowhere, CIA-funded behavioral experiments,
outsourced to the countrys leading universities, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc., produced
three key findings that contributed to the discovery of a new form of torture that was
psychological, not physical, ... perhaps best described as no-touch torture. (McCoy
outline, 2)
Across the span of three continents and four decades, there is a striking similarity in U.S.
torture techniques, both their conceptual design and specific techniques, from the CIAs
1963 Kubark interrogation manual, to the Agencys 1983 Honduras training handbook,
all the way to General Ricardo Sanchezs 2003 orders for interrogation in Iraq. ...
Guantanamo perfected the three-phase psychological paradigm by attacking cultural
identity and individual psyche. (McCoy outline, 14)
Page 9 of 548
III. What is no touch torture?

McCoy explained what no touch torture is;
The CIAs psychological paradigm for no touch torture fused two new methods,
sensory disorientation and self-inflicted pain, whose combination, in theory, would
cause victims to feel responsible for their own suffering and thus capitulate more readily
to their torturers. Refined through years of practice, sensory disorientation relies on a
mix of sensory overload and sensory deprivation via banal procedures, isolation then
intense interrogation, heat and cold, light and dark, noise and silence, for a systematic
attack on all human stimuli. The fusion of these two techniques, sensory disorientation
and self-inflicted pain, creates a synergy of physical and psychological trauma whose sum
is a hammer-blow to the existential platforms of personal identity. (McCoy outline, 4-5)
In 2004, the Red Cross reported: The construction of such a system. ... cannot be
considered other than an intentional system of cruel, unusual and degrading treatment
and a form of torture. (McCoy outline, 9)
IV. An example of no touch torture

Democracy Nows Amy Goodman interviewed journalist Jane Mayer about her August 8, 2007 New
Yorker article, The Black Sites: A Rare Look Inside the C.I.A.s Secret Interrogation Program.
Mayer described detainee Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his experience with no touch torture;
There, he [Khalid Sheikh Mohammed] was subjected to a kind of a weird routine that
someone described to me as kind of Clockwork Orange sort of thing, where he was put in
goggles that blacked out the light and earmuffs of some sort that blocked out sound and
deprived of any normal routine, such as meals or anything that would allow him to know
what time of day it was or really have any kind of marker in his existence. And its a
program thats developed of sort of psychological terror, in a way, to kind of make people
feel that they are completely dependent on other people, have no control over their lives,
and its something that, the technique, that really comes out of the KGB days, way back in
the Cold War. And apparently its something the CIA has put a lot of research into over
time.
Page 10 of 548
V. The long history of U.S. torture

The history of CIA torture runs parallel to CIA neuroscience-based mind control research and also
CIA nonlethal weapons research. This is important because mind control allegations include
descriptions of techniques that sound like all three CIA programs. It is possible that the related cold
war CIA no touch torture, nonlethal weapons and neuroscience-based mind control programs have
co-mingled for intelligence purposes. Pulitzer Prize winning New York Times reporter and author
Tim Weiner wrote the 2007 book Legacy of Ashes, History of the CIA. Weiner described the CIA
torture programs and the U.S. secret detention centers around the world. This is a brief excerpt of
the extensive programs;
The project dated back to 1948, when Richard Helms and his [American intelligence]
officers in Germany realized they were being defrauded ... The agency had set up
clandestine prisons to wring confessions out of suspected double agents. One was in
Germany, another in Japan. The third, and the biggest, was in the Panama Canal Zone.
Like Guantanamo, ... It was anything goes. ... (Weiner, 64-5)
Senior CIA officers, including Helms, destroyed almost all the records of these programs
in fear they might become public. (Weiner, 66)
The agency, as Cheney said that morning, went over to the dark side. On Monday,
September 17, President Bush issued a fourteen-page top secret directive to Tenet and
the CIA, ordering the agency to hunt, capture, imprison, and interrogate suspects around
the world. It set new limits on what the agency could do. It was the foundation for a
system of secret prisons where CIA officers and contractors used techniques that
included torture. One CIA contractor was convicted of beating an Afghan prison to death.
This was not the role of a civilian intelligence service in a democratic society. But it is
clearly what the White House wanted the CIA to do. ...
[The CIA] had participated in the torture of captured enemy combatants before,
beginning in 1967, under the Phoenix program in Vietnam. ...
Under Bushs order, the CIA began to function as a global military police, throwing
hundreds of suspects into secret jails in Afghanistan, Thailand, Poland, and inside the
American military prison in Guantanamo, Cuba. It handed hundreds more prisoners off
to the intelligence services in Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, and Syria for interrogations.
(Weiner, 482)
Page 11 of 548
VI. CIA Cold War neuroscience-based mind control

research
Some CIA neuroscience-based mind control research is known to have continued into the 1970s and
is still classified today. A January 29, 1979 Washington Post article entitled Book Disputes CIA
Chief on Mind-Control Efforts: Work Went on Into 1970s, Author Says, reported;
Despite assurances last year from Central Intelligence Director Stansfield Turner that the
CIAs mind-control program was phased out over a decade ago, the intelligence agency
has come up with new documents indicating that the work went on into the 1970s,
according to a new book. John Marks, the author of the book, said the CIA mind-control
researchers did apparently drop their much publicized MK-ULTRA drug-testing
program. But they replaced it, according to Marks, with another super secret behavioralcontrol project under the agencys Office of Research and Development.
The ORD program used a cover organization set up in the 1960s outside Boston headed
by Dr. Edwin Land, the founder of Polaroid, who acted as a figurehead, said Marks in
his book. The project investigated such research as genetic engineering, development of
new strains of bacteria, and mind control. The book identifies the Massachusetts
proprietary organization headed by Land as the Scientific Engineering Institute. The
CIA-funded institute was originally set up as a radar and technical research company in
the 1950s and shifted over to mind-control experiments in the 1960s with the exception
of a few scattered programs. According to Marks, however, the ORD program was a fullscale one and just as secret as the earlier MK-ULTRA project.
In a March 14, 1987, Nation magazine editorial, Louis Slesin, editor of the trade publication,
Microwave News, wrote; Experts agree that nonionizing electromagnetic radiation (NIER) can
affect behavior, but the question is whether the radiation can be harnessed and used on people at a
distance. With its MKULTRA program the CIA began looking for the answer in the early 1950s.
Slesin described that in the 1979 book, Search for the Manchurian Candidate, The CIA and Mind
Control by John Marks, Marks filed a freedom of information act (foia) request. The CIA replied
that it had a roomful of files on electromagnetic and related techniques to alter behavior and
stimulate the brain. But, [the agency] refused to release the papers, and they remain classified.
Page 12 of 548
VII. CIA Cold War nonlethal weapons research

Nonlethal weapons are another outcome of CIA behavior control research. Steven Aftergood wrote
about the initial stages of nonlethal weapons in the September/October 1994 Bulletin of the Atomic
Scientists; Details about programs to develop so called non-lethal weapons are slowly emerging
from the U.S. governments secret black budget. ... The concept of non-lethal weapons is not new;
the term appears in heavily censored CIA documents dating from the 1960s. Dr. Barbara HatchRosenberg described nonlethal weapons on page 45,
Non-lethal weapons may violate treaties
Development of many of the proposed weapons described on these pages has been
undertaken by NATO, the United States, and probably other nations as well. Most of the
weapons could be considered pre-lethal rather than non-lethal. They would actually
provide a continuum of effects ranging from mild to lethal, with varying degrees of
controllability. Serious questions arise about the legality of these expensive and highly
classified development programs. Four international treaties are particularly relevant ...
The Certain Conventional Weapons Convention (also known as the Inhumane Weapons
Convention).
Many of the non-lethal weapons under consideration utilize infrasound or
electromagnetic energy (including lasers, microwave or radio-frequency radiation, or
visible light pulsed at brain-wave frequency) for their effects. These weapons are said to
cause temporary or permanent blinding, interference with mental processes,
modification of behavior and emotional response, seizures, severe pain, dizziness, nausea
and diarrhea, or disruption of internal organ functions in various other ways. In addition,
the use of high-power microwaves to melt down electronic systems would incidentally
cook every person in the vicinity.
Typically, the biological effects of these weapons depend on a number of variables that,
theoretically, could be tuned to control the severity of the effects. However, the precision
of control is questionable. The use of such weapons for law enforcement might constitute
severe bodily punishment without due process. In warfare, the use of these weapons in a
non-lethal mode would be analogous to the use of riot control agents in the Vietnam War,
a practice now outlawed by the CWC. Regardless of the level of injury inflicted, the use of
many non-lethal weapons is likely to violate international humanitarian law on the basis
of superfluous suffering and/or indiscriminate effects.
In addition, under the Certain Conventional Weapons Convention, international
discussions are now under way that may lead to the development of specific new
protocols covering electromagnetic weapons; a report is expected sometime next year.
The current surge of interest in electromagnetic and similar technologies makes the
adoption of a protocol explicitly outlawing the use of these dehumanizing weapons an
urgent matter.
Page 13 of 548
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VIII. Why CIA no touch torture has been so successful

McCoy explained;
CIA Paradigm: In its clandestine journey across continents and decades, this distinctly
American form of psychological torture would prove elusive, resilient, adaptable and
devastatingly destructive, attributes that have allowed it to persist up to the present and
into the future. ...
1. Elusive: Unlike its physical variant, psychological torture lacks clear signs of abuse
and easily eludes detection, greatly complicating any investigation, prosecution, or
attempt at prohibition.
2. Resilient: Psychological torture is shrouded in a scientific patina that appeals to
policy makers and avoids the obvious physical brutality unpalatable to the modern
public.
3. Adaptable: In forty years since its discovery, the Agencys psychological paradigm
has proved surprisingly adaptable, with each sustained application producing
innovations. ...
4. Destructive: Although seemingly less brutal than physical methods, the CIAs no
touch torture actually leaves searing psychological scars. Victims often need long
treatment to recover from a trauma many experts consider more crippling than
physical pain. (A Question of Torture, 12)
These characteristics also apply to nonlethal weapons and neuroscience-based mind control. All
three are emerging state tools of the future and can neutralize the enemy by controlling the behavior
of the enemy. A 2005 book entitled, Torture, Does it Make Us Safer? Is It Ever OK? was copublished with Human Rights Watch. Some general reasons for why governments use torture as a
state tool include the following. Governments torture because it is a way to obtain coerced
confessions. The confessions can be used for propaganda purposes. Torture serves a variety of state
purposes: to terrorize certain elements of the population, to instill a climate of fear in the public
more generally, and to break key leaders and members of these groups, uncovering their networks.
Other purposes of torture are to obtain intelligence by any means, annihilate subversives and
eliminate the enemy.
Counterinsurgency warfare is taking place in Iraq and major newspapers have reported on the many
detainees that have consistently alleged being subjected to no touch torture techniques. As
reported in the September 16th, 2007 Sacramento Bee, General David Petraeus co-wrote the
Counterinsurgency Field Manuel-U.S. Army Field Manual on Tactics, Intelligence, Host Nation
Forces, Airpower, which Newsweek said, is highly touted as the basis upon which the surge of U.S.
forces this year would be organized.
Page 14 of 548
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The book Torture, also included a description of counterinsurgency warfare, in which torture was a
principal weapon and was developed during the French experience in Indochina and Algeria.
[The] genesis of this new kind of warfare is the idea that the enemy takes the form of an
invisible political organization hidden among the civilian population. One can know its
leaders and its structure only by waging a war of information: by arresting masses of
civilian suspects, interrogating them, and, if necessary, torturing them. ... In the modern
era, ... the science of torture and similar abusive treatment has developed to break the
physical and mental resistance of subjects before they expire or go mad and thus become
useless as sources of information. ... Torture is still about domination.
IX. All three programs are state tools for neutralizing

the enemy without killing; for intelligence operations and
counterinsurgency warfare
By comparing mind control allegations to no touch torture techniques and the very classified
nonlethal weapons program, the purpose of the bizarre sounding mind control allegations begins to
make sense. Neuroweapons include the CIAs still classified neuroscience-based mind control
research, no touch torture and nonlethal weapons. All three are emerging state tools of the future
that can reliably neutralize the enemy psychologically or without killing. The old, politically
unacceptable methods of brutal physical torture and killing wont be eliminated but surreptitious,
scientifically proven, alternative methods are available to achieve an even greater national security
advantage. All are ideal for counterinsurgency warfare, psychological operations and intelligence
operations. The characteristics of no touch torture, nonlethal weapons and neuroscience-based
mind control make them more inhumane than the atomic bomb.
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X. Mind control allegations by a Korean War POW,

(prisoner of war), a Soviet political prisoner and Abu
Ghraib detainees
Three relevant examples out of the numerous available provide a general overview of the decades of
mind control allegations and weapons. The details are compelling and rarely reported by
mainstream press and illustrate why a comparison of no touch torture to mind control allegations
is so applicable. The examples share the same Cold War history with CIA no touch torture,
neuroscience-based mind control and nonlethal weapons programs.
1. The 1984 BBC TV documentary Opening Pandoras Box described EMR [electromagnetic
radiation] remote mind control developments and a claim of mind control by a Korean POW;
In the 1950s, intelligence agencies were interested in changing mental states. The
theory is that brain waves can be tuned to a different EMR frequency and can
change moods and character. ... A CIA memo stated that they were looking for
behavior control to enhance consciousness.
The Soviets had realized the same thing. Dr. Ross Adey, famous EMR researcher at
Loma Linda Veterans Hospital, examined the Lida machine, from the Soviet Union.
It was described as a machine to rearrange consciousness. The Russians claimed
to use it for treatment of emotional disorders in the 1950s. Dr. Adey stated that the
Lida machine is now obsolete. It used coiled wire inside ear muffs which acted like
an antenna and emitted 1/10 sec pulses of EMR. Dr. Adey demonstrated that
excited animals rapidly quiet down when exposed to the Lida EMR frequencies.
There was one account that the Lida machine was used during the Korean war for
brainwashing American Prisoners.
2. An interview of an alleged Russian victim, Andre Slepucha, was reported in a 1998 ZDF
German TV documentary. He described what seems to be the first reported victim of some type
of microwave hearing. Slepucha stated;
In November 1954 I came into contact with what today is referred to as
Psychotronic Treatment for the first time. Back then they took me out of the
concentration camp where, under Stalin, I had been imprisoned as a political
prisoner, and brought me into an isolation cell in the KGB prison which was located
in the Lubyanka. After an approximately two week long continuous occupation of
the cell I suddenly experienced in the morning strong sounds in the head, very
strong acoustic and visual hallucinations.
On the CNN news broadcast, Special Assignment by Chuck DeCaro, Weapons of War, Is there
an RF Gap? November 1985, Dr. Bill van Bise, electrical engineer, conducted a demonstration
of Soviet scientific data and schematics for beaming a magnetic field into the brain to cause
visual hallucinations. The demonstration on reporter Chuck DeCaro was successful. Dr. van
Bise stated, In three weeks, I could put together a device that would take care of a whole
Page 16 of 548
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town. A December 13, 1976, Federal Times article, Microwave Weapons Study by Soviets
Cited described the alleged Russian capability of microwave hearing;
The Defense Intelligence Agency has released a report on heavy Communist
research on microwaves, including their use as weapons. Microwaves are used in
radar, television and microwave ovens. They can cause disorientation and possibly
heart attacks in humans. Another biological effect with possible anti-personnel uses
is microwave hearing. Sounds and possibly even words which appear to be
originating intracranially (within the head) can be induced by signal modulation at
very low average power densities, the report said. According to the study,
Communist work in this area has great potential for development into a system for
disorienting or disrupting the behavior patterns of military or diplomatic
personnel.
3. Jon Ronson, author of the New York Times reviewed book, The Men Who Stare at Goats
wrote about alleged mind control experiments on Iraqi detainees. In an interview on April 14,
2005 at the Politics and Prose book store in Washington DC., Ronson discussed his book.
(Tape available from Cspan, Book TV at www.booktv.org. Videotape # 186334)
And from the former detainees from Guantanamo Bay that Ive interviewed it
seems exactly the same things are going on there. I said to a man called Jamal alHarith how do you feel, you know how did you feel at Guantanamo Bay and he said
felt like a laboratory rat. And he said, I felt they were trying stuff out on me. ...
And one example is with Barney the purple dinosaur. When it was announced a
year ago that they were rounding up prisoners of war in Iraq and blasting them
with Barney the purple dinosaur, it was treated as a funny story, because, by all the
major news networks in America, you know... the torture wasnt that bad. ... It was
disseminated as funny because who wants to replace a funny story with, as Eric
[Olson] once said to me, with one thats not fun. ...
I was given seven photographs of a detainee who had just been given the Barney
treatment as they called it. It was 48 hours of Barney with flashing strobe lights
inside a shipping container in the desert heat. ...
... The current chief of staff of the Army is a man called General Pete Shoemaker. ...
Hes well known to have an interest in these paranormal esoteric military pursuits.
... So now is the time when I know that these ideas go to the very top [levels of the
military].
One of the things you spoke of, the one that I have knowledge of is the frequencies.
You can follow a trail of patents like footprints in the snow and the patents
sometimes vanish into the world of military classification. And theres many
patents bought up by a man called Dr. Oliver Lowry. ...
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So we know that these patents have been bought up by the military. ... And the
detainees of Guantanamo Ive spoken to speak of being blasted withfrequencies, put
inside music, high and low frequencies, masked with music.
...I think theres no doubt theyre experimenting with this stuff. To add to that
controversial suggestion. I think theres a good chance that even though theyre
trying this stuff out, its not necessarily true that it works. A lot of this stuff doesnt
work. This may or may not work. I dont know.
XI. The banal and bizarre techniques of no touch

torture
Psychological techniques used at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and secret prisons have included
extremes of the following; manipulation of time, loud music, strobe lights, odd sounds, hooding, ear
muffs, heat and cold, light and dark, isolation and intensive interrogation and most importantly,
creative combinations of all these methods which otherwise might seem, individually, banal if not
benign. As McCoy explains;
After a visit from the Guantanamo chief General Miller in September 2003, the U.S.
commander for Iraq, General Ricardo Sanchez, issued orders for sophisticated
psychological torture. As I read from those orders, please listen for the combined sensory
disorientation, self-inflicted pain, and attacking Arab cultural sensitivities.
Environmental Manipulation: Altering the environment to create moderate discomfort
(e.g. adjusting temperatures or introducing an unpleasant smell) ...
Sleep Adjustment: Adjusting the sleeping times of the detainee (e.g. reversing the
sleeping cycles from night to day).
Isolation: Isolating the detainee from other detainees. ... 30 days.
Presence of Military Working Dogs: Exploits Arab fear of dogs while maintaining security
during interrogations ...
Yelling, Loud Music, and Light Control: Used to create fear, disorient detainee and
prolong capture shock. Volume controlled to prevent injury ...
Stress Positions: Use of physical posturing (sitting, standing, kneeling, prone, etc.)
(McCoy outline, 9)
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XII. The three key behavioral components of no touch

torture
McCoy described the principles underlying no touch torture;
Through covert trial and error, the CIA, in collaboration with university researchers,
slowly identified three key behavioral components integral to its emerging techniques for
psychological torture.
Discovery #1 Sensory deprivation In the early 1950s ...Dr. Donald Hebb found that he
could induce a state akin to psychosis in just 48 hours. ...after just two to three days of
such isolation [sitting in a cubicle ..with goggles, gloves and ear muffs on.] the subjects
very identity had begun to disintegrate.
Discovery #2 Self-inflicted pain ...Albert Biderman, Irving L. Janis, Harold Wolff, and
Lawrence Hinkle, advised the agency about the role of self-inflicted pain in Communist
interrogation. ...During the 1950s as well, two eminent neurologists at Cornell Medical
Center working for the CIA found that the KGBs most devastating torture technique
involved, not crude physical beatings, but simply forcing the victim to stand for days at a
time, while the legs swelled, the skin erupted in suppurating lesions, the kidneys shut
down, hallucinations began.
Discovery #3 Anyone can torture ...Finally, a young Yale psychologist Stanley Milgram,
...conducted his famed obedience experiments, asking ordinary New Haven citizens to
torture on command and discovering that, in contravention of conventional wisdom,
anyone could be trained to torture. ...[Milgram] did controversial research under a
government grant showing that almost any individual is capable of torture, a critical
finding for the agency as it prepared to disseminate its method worldwide. (McCoy
outline, 4, Question of Torture, 32-33)
By the projects end in the late 1960s, this torture research had involved three of the 100
most eminent psychologists of the 20th century-Hebb, Milgram, and Janis, as well as
several presidents of the American Psychiatric Association and the American
Psychological Association. (A Question of Torture, 33)
That notorious photo of a hooded Iraqi on a box, arms extended and wires to his hands,
exposes this covert method. The hood is for sensory deprivation, and the arms are
extended for self-inflicted pain. ... Although seemingly less brutal than physical methods,
no-touch torture leaves deep psychological scars on both victims and interrogators. One
British journalist who observed this methods use in Northern Ireland called sensory
deprivation the worst form of torture because it provokes more anxiety among the
interrogatees than more traditional tortures, leaves no visible scars and, therefore, is
harder to prove, and produces longer lasting effects. (Question of Torture, 8-9)
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McCoy explained how CIA no touch torture changes its victims;

Insights from the treatment of Chilean victims tortured under General Augusto Pinochet
s regime offer a point of entry into this complex question. Psychotherapist Otto DoerrZegers found that victims suffer a mistrust bordering on paranoia, and a loss of interest
that greatly surpasses anything observed in anxiety disorders. The subject does not
only react to torture with a tiredness of days, weeks, or months, but remains a tired
human being, relatively uninterested and unable to concentrate.
These findings led him to a revealing question: What in torture makes possible a change
of such nature that it appears similar to psychotic processes and to disorders of organic
origin? (Question of Torture, 10-11)
XIII. Torture as a kind of total theater

Doerr-Zegers explained that techniques of torture work by creating deception, distrust, fear,
disorientation, a kind of total theater that leaves the victim disoriented and emotionally and
psychological damaged. The similarity of the explanation below to street theater found in mind
control allegations is remarkable;
As Doerr-Zegers describes it, the psychological component of torture becomes a kind of
total theater, a constructed unreality of lies and inversion, in a plot that ends inexorably
with the victims self-betrayal and destruction.
To make their artifice of false charges, fabricated news, and mock executions convincing,
interrogators often become inspired thespians. The torture chamber itself thus has the
theatricality of a set with special lighting, sound effects, props, and backdrop, all
designed with a perverse stagecraft to evoke an aura of fear. Both stage and cell construct
their own kind of temporality. While the play both expands and collapses time to carry
the audience forward toward denouement, the prison distorts time to disorientate and
then entrap the victim. As the torturer manipulates circumstances to maximize
confusion, the victim feels prior schemas of the self and the world ... shattered and
becomes receptive to the torturers construction of reality.
Under the peculiar conditions of psychological torture, victims, isolated from others,
form emotional ties to their tormentors that make them responsive to a perverse play
in which they are both audience and actor, subject and objectin a script that often
leaves them not just disoriented but emotionally and psychologically damaged, in some
cases for the rest of their lives. (A Question of Torture, 10)
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XIV. A comparison of no touch torture to mind

control allegations
The Washington Post Magazine article included interviews of several TIs, or targeted individuals of
mind control, as some call themselves. Highly acclaimed author Gloria Naylor is most recognized for
her novel Women of Brewster Place, starring Oprah in a 1980s TV mini-series. Naylor wrote the
novel 1996, about her personal experience of mind control targeting and street theater. The article
also included an example of drug-induced paranoia for comparison;
Like Girard, Naylor describes what she calls street theater, incidents that might be
dismissed by others as coincidental, but which Naylor believes were set up. She noticed
suspicious cars driving by her isolated vacation home. On an airplane, fellow passengers
mimicked her every movement, like mimes on a street.
Voices similar to those in Girards case followed, taunting voices cursing her, telling her
she was stupid, that she couldnt write. Expletive-laced language filled her head. ...
Naylor is not the first writer to describe such a personal descent. Evelyn Waugh, one of
the great novelists of the 20th century, details similar experiences in The Ordeal of
Gilbert Pinfold. Waughs book, published in 1957, has eerie similarities to Naylors.
Embarking on a recuperative cruise, Pinfold begins to hear voices on the ship that he
believes are part of a wireless system capable of broadcasting into his head; he believes
the instigator recruited fellow passengers to act as operatives; and he describes
performances put on by passengers directed at him yet meant to look innocuous to
others.
Waugh wrote his book several years after recovering from a similar episode and realizing
that the voices and paranoia were the result of drug-induced hallucinations.
The psychological terror and mistrust bordering on paranoia of torture victims is remarkably similar
to the mind control alleged by Naylor and the drug-induced paranoia of Waugh. The street theater
described by most TIs also appears similar to the paranoia of mental illness and most people think
street theater sounds crazy.
The addendum of Naylors novel 1996 included this description of some of the most commonly
reported mind control symptoms;
Victims are subjected to various kinds of harassment and torture, twenty-four hours a
day, seven days a week, for years on end. Most believe that some type of technology can
remotely track, target, and control every nerve in their bodies. Heart and respiration rate
can speed up and slow down, and stomach and bowel functions are regulated. Illnesses
and all types of pain can turn on and off in an instant. Microwave burns are reported.
Sleep deprivation is common and dreams are manipulated. Victims say, They [whoever
is targeting them] can see through my eyes, what I see. Sometimes victims describe
seeing the images of projected holograms. Thoughts can be read. Most victims describe a
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phenomenon they call street theater. For example, people around the victim have
repeated verbatim, the victims immediate thoughts, or harassive and personalized
statements are repeated by strangers wherever the victim may go.
Emotions can be manipulated. Microwave hearing, known to be an unclassified military
capability of creating voices in the head, is regularly reported. Implanted thoughts and
visions are common, with repetitive themes that can include pedophilia, homophobia
and degradation. Victims say it is like having a radio or TV in your head. Less frequently,
remote and abusive sexual manipulation is reported. Almost all victims say repetitive
behavior control techniques are used and include negative, stimulus-response or
feedback loops.
The counterintuitive and bizarre torture techniques are discernible within the mind control
allegations. The mind control techniques seem to be psychological techniques to disorient the victim
and cause him to feel completely controlled, dependent and at the mercy of his torturers. Similar to
the kind of total theater for torture, street theater is almost certainly a part of the process of
breaking ones personality to gain behavior control over that person.
XV. The phenomenology of the torture situation

What in torture makes possible a change of such nature that it appears similar to psychotic
processes and to disorders of organic origin? Doerr-Zegers found the answer lies in the
psychological, not physical, phenomenology of the torture situation;
1.
2.
3.
4.
an asymmetry of power;
the anonymity of the torturer to the victim;
the double bind of either enduring or betraying others;
the systematic falsehood of trumped-up charges, artificial lighting, cunning
deceptions, and mock executions;
5. confinement in distinctive spaces signifying displacement, trapping, narrowness
and destruction; and
6. a temporality characterized by some unpredictability and much circularity, having
no end. ...
Thus, much of the pain from all forms of torture is psychological, not physical, based
upon denying victims any power over their lives. In sum, the torturer strives through
insult and disqualification, by means of threats ... to break all the victims possible
existential platforms. Through this asymmetry, the torturer eventually achieves
complete power and reduces the victims to a condition of total or near total
defenselessness. (Question of Torture, 10-11)
In torture, a torture situation is created according to Doerr-Zegers. In mind control allegations,
there is a similar phenomenology of a mind control situation. TIs describe this as an electronic
prison. Doerr-Zegers described the torture technique, 1) an asymmetry of power. In torture, the
torturer has complete power and the victim is completely powerless. Similarly, TIs are targeted
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remotely and are completely powerless to stop the targeting. Doerr-Zegers described the torture
technique, 2) the anonymity of the torturer to the victim. Torture victims do not know their torturer
and similarly, there is the anonymity of the remote targeting in the mind control situation.
Most TIs described street theater or seemingly staged events which matches 3), 4) and 6). DoerrZegers described torture technique, 5) confinement in distinctive spaces signifying displacement,
trapping, narrowness and destruction. Although TIs are not physically imprisoned, most victims
describe the experience as very debilitating and compare it to mental rape, an electronic prison, or
total destruction of the quality of their lives. Mind control poses a severe restriction on their former
lives. Doerr-Zegers technique 6) a temporality characterized by some unpredictability and much
circularity, having no end is also similar to sensory deprivation in mind control allegations. TIs
routinely report the simple but extremely repetitive and negative, stimulus-response and feedback
loops of their environment.
XVI. Comparing no touch torture techniques of

sensory disorientation and self inflicted pain to mind
control allegations
The psychological effects achieved by torture and alleged mind control are similar. Mind control
targeting tactics described by most TIs seem to contain the underlying no touch torture techniques
of sensory disorientation and self inflicted pain. For comparison, here is McCoys description;
To summarize, the CIAs psychological paradigm fused two new methods, sensory
disorientation and self-inflicted pain, whose combination, in theory, would cause
victims to feel responsible for their own suffering and thus capitulate more readily to
their torturers ... The fusion of these two techniques, sensory disorientation and selfinflicted pain, creates a synergy of physical and psychological trauma whose sum is a
hammer-blow to the existential platforms of personal identity. (McCoy outline, 5)
The intended effect of sensory disorientation for torture would be similar for mind control; to create
an environment of radical uncertainty to enhance the break down of the persons will and
personality. Most alleged cases of mind control describe the considerable repetition of seemingly
innocuous and banal stimuli in the TIs environment, as if engineered by computer. The addendum
of Naylors book included this description; Almost all victims say repetitive behavior control
techniques are used and include negative, stimulus-response or feedback loops. For comparison,
here is McCoys description;
The CIAs sensory disorientation became a total assault on all senses and sensibilities,
auditory, visual, tactile, temporal, temperature, and survival. Refined through years of
practice, sensory disorientation relies on a mix of sensory overload and sensory
deprivation via banal procedures, isolation then intense interrogation, heat and cold,
light and dark, noise and silence, for a systematic attack on all human stimuli. (McCoy
outline, 4-5)
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McCoy described the photos of the hooded detainee with the arms extended for self-inflicted pain.
The torturer forces the prisoner to stand with arms extended and the prisoner has no control over
his situation. The prisoner still has a sense of guilt at causing his own pain by his extended arms.
This intended effect of self inflicted pain for torture seems to be similar to mind control. TIs who are
remotely targeted with physical pain cannot escape. Although TIs go to extremes in trying to escape
the physical targeting, they are unsuccessful. The psychological trauma is inflicted by the sense of
causing ones own pain. Many TIs report that the targeting causes TIs to become isolated from
friends, families and in many cases TIs are unable to work. This common reaction to targeting seems
to be a type of self-inflicted psychological pain.
Carole Sterlings description of targeting is also found in the addendum of Naylors book and seems
to illustrate the techniques of sensory disorientation and self-inflicted pain. It is a typical TI
description;
In 1997, Carole Sterling wrote a letter to the editor of the Star Beacon. She described her
alleged targeting with EMR weapons technologies that within months, led to her suicide.
Dear Star Beacon, I am writing about something that happened to me which goes back to
December 1995. I went to a conference in Nevada. The day following the last night at the
conference, I noticed that I had an injection mark on the base of my spine which was
sore. Then the nightmare started three days after my return to Washington, D.C. ... It
totally scrambled my brain, leaving me unable to think properly, simply functioning on
sheer shock and horror, with total incomprehension of what was going on. It actually was
debilitating. The room felt like a torture chamber. This forced me out of my home. I
believe that the technology used, be it some type of a frequency assault, some sort of
directed energy, in addition to whatever was injected in me, has caused damage to my
brain. [I have] been living with this debilitating and excruciating pain for the last eight
months so far.
TIs describe both psychological and physical targeting similar to torture. It seems logical to surmise
that the successful psychological theories of no touch torture would cross over to more technically
based remote, advanced mind control programs. This becomes a significant step forward in
understanding the mind control issue. The mind control allegations are the secret in plain sight.
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XVII. Conclusions: what everyone can agree on

Hard questions need to be asked of the experts. Who now controls the neuroscience weapons
research and how advanced is it? As a result of U.S. secrecy, an educated guess is all that is possible.
The public deployment of advanced remote neuroscience weapons will be a world changing event,
affecting the lives of this generation and the next. The weapons involve national security, science,
history, U.S. politics and geopolitics. Most importantly the weapons encompass human nature, good
and evil and suffering. Most people are in agreement about one fact: unlike the atomic bomb, there
has been a total lack of public input for neuroscience weapons and policy even though the research
began in the 1950s and is still classified. Again, this raises more questions than it answers.
This article will be published in March 2008. See www.huntergatheress.com A special thank you to editor, Joan DArc for
her encouragement and suggestions.
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Stan J. Caterbone Testimony
EXAMINATION UNDER OATH OF

STANLEY J. CATERBONE
(VOLUME II)
2
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TAKEN BY:
ALLSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY
BEFORE:
DIANE A. SMITH, REPORTER

NOTARY PUBLIC
DATE:
JUNE 28, 2016, 9:25 A.M.
PLACE:
LANCASTER BAR ASSOCIATION

28 EAST ORANGE STREET
LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA
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APPEARANCES:
MARSHALL, DENNEHEY, WARNER, COLEMAN & GOGGIN
BY: CHRISTOPHER M. REESER, ESQUIRE
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FOR - ALLSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY
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Allstate
U.S.
Sponsored
Sworn Testimony
Mind Control
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WITNESSES
NAME
EXAMINATION
BY:
MR. REESER
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Mind Control
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STANLEY J. CATERBONE, called as a witness, being

duly sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
4
5
THE WITNESS:
I wanted to try to give you some
background about why people are doing this to me.
MR. REESER:
THE WITNESS:
Okay.
Here's one of the first things.
This is a book written by the Chief of Police ex-wife.
BY MR. REESER:
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Chief of Police of Lancaster?
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Lancaster, yes.
She accused him of domestic
12
abuse, and I've had the book for over a year.
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other thing is this book here.
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right now to get her out of prison.
And the
I have the only live case
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And why don't you read the title of the book.
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Love, Murder and Corruption in Lancaster County,
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My Story by Lisa Michelle Lambert and David Brown.
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communicate with Dave Brown a couple times a week.
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Who is David Brown?
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Her attorney that wrote the book.
Now if you're
21
not familiar with this case, there were three teenagers
22
that were involved in a murder back in 1992.
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federal judge named Stewart Dalzell released her saying
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there was so much prosecutorial misconduct in the case that
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she was actually innocent.
Allstate
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Sponsored
Sworn Testimony
Mind Control
In 1997, a
Now Pennsylvania appealed it,
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and they had to have another PCRA hearing in front of Larry
Stengel.
essentially, and she went back to prison.
Well, he found -- he reversed everything
Now last June, I filed an Amicus on her behalf as
to move it in the case.
appeal case to get her out of prison.
controversial that 38,000 people signed a petition from
Lancaster to impeach the judge.
They never impeached him.
And I currently have a 3rd Circuit

Now the case was so
Of course, they lost.
But in 1997, the attorney that
10
represented her had some dealings with me.
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Christina Rainville.
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Her name is
Now essentially my Amicus is based on a premise
13
that I suffered the same prosecutorial misconduct that she
14
suffered.
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federal whistleblower for International Signal Control, the
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firm selling arms to Iraq to a Black Ops Program with the
17
CIA and the NSA -- I blew the whistle in '87 -- they were
18
indicted in '91 -- and the fact that I'm a victim of mind
19
control, there's ample reason and sufficient evidence of
20
why people break into my house and steal my things and
21
break my things.
Now you couple that with the fact that I'm the
22
Now I presented transcripts from Nick Begich, who
23
is a renowned expert in mind control, Karen Stewart, who is
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a former NSA whistleblower who suffers the same
25
symptomatology as me, and Julianne McKinney, who is a
Allstate
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former intelligence officer of the U.S. Army.
suffer the same symptoms that I do.
Security has been paying me disability benefits since 2008
for mind control.
5
6
They all
In addition, Social
Do you have a copy of the Disability
Determination?
Sure, I have it in here.
Can I take a look at it?
Yeah, it might take me a couple minutes to find
11
Sure.
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This injunction was filed yesterday at 4:24 p.m.
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it.
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in the Lancaster County Courthouse.
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documentation with SSA.
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Now through the application process, I applied in April of
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'09 and received a check for $21,000 in August.
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se.
I have 191 pages of
Here is my letter, award letter.
I was pro
There were not psychiatric examinations.
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May I take a look at that as you're talking?
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Yes.
And there were no medical reports.
It was
20
all awarded on my documentation of mind control symptoms
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and illnesses.
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'09.
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back one year, retroactive one year.
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one year.
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'05, which is when I declared that I became full-time
What they did was -- I applied in April of
They awarded me benefits in August of '09 and paid me
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Mind Control
They can only do it
But they declared me disabled in December of
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telepathic and under harassment with electromagnetic
weapons.
3
4
That's what the '05 date is.

So I see, you know, the letter saying that you
became disabled under our rules on December 1, 2005.
Right.
It doesn't say anything as to why.
No, they don't do that.
They only -- what they do
is they give you an award letter and it either says
physical or mental, nothing beyond that because of HIPAA.
10
But if you go through all the documentation I have of the
11
entire process, you'll notice that there's no medical
12
reports submitted.
13
Joe Pitts' office to try to get them to give me a
14
psychiatric evaluation because I thought it was required.
15
They wouldn't give me one.
16
for mental illness, impossible.
17
And I begged them -- in fact, I went to
So it's impossible for it to be

It's just not.
You don't have a document anywhere from the Social
18
Security Administration that says we've determined that
19
you're disabled because of this condition?
20
21
physical.
22
They don't do that.
It's either mental or
If I had one, I'd present it.

Yeah.
It seems to me I've seen things to the
23
contrary where there's been a determination that somebody
24
is disabled --
25
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Well, they didn't give me any.
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-- for a particular reason.
Now my father collected disability.
He was a
victim of MKUltra.
What is that?
That's where mind control came from, a CIA
program.
It started in the '50s.
Okay.
You'll have to ask them.
I mean I understand what you're telling me about
10
11
Why was he a target?
your role as a federal whistleblower but -A
He was Navy, a very intelligent person.
He was a
12
member of the Air Gunners Squadron, which I have
13
documentation from him that he left, which is like a
14
special option.
15
school.
16
And he graduated with honors from their
So that could be why.

What I'd like to do is go back to what we were
17
doing before and discuss the items that were on Exhibit 1
18
that was marked at the first examination.
19
started with that, two things.
20
of the receipts from the items that were damaged or the
21
replacement items that you purchased?
22
23
Before I get
One, have you brought any
Can you guarantee me you're going to pay the
claim?
24
No.
25
No.
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1
2
Okay.
Second, I don't have the ability to make
that guarantee.
I mean I could say yes and I --
I'm not going to waste my time.
All right.
I didn't have to do it for previous insurance
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
claims like this.

Q
So I'm not going to do it for this one.
All right.
Second, you had sent me an email I
think indicating that you had other items to add?

A
Every day.
Seriously, every day.
injunction takes care of everything.

Q
I'm hoping this
So we'll see.
I'm not sure it has anything to do with this claim
but --
13
It has everything to do with everything.
14
All right.
15
Let me read you the relief I'm requesting,
16
And you filed --
emergency relief.
17
Filed in the 3rd Circuit you said?
18
No, Lancaster County Court of Common Pleas.
19
Oh, okay.
20
I filed one in '09, and the judge ruled on it.
21
So
I'm hoping she will on this one.
22
What is the docket number?
23
I didn't get one yet.
24
Okay.
25
I'll read it.
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I just filed it yesterday.
Relief sought by Plaintiff.
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The
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Complainant seeks immediate relief from the above in the
form of sanctions and fines for those guilty of extortion
and embezzlement and those withholding accounts
receivables.
law enforcement agencies that continue abuse of process.
Complainant seeks immediate relief from public officials
for obstructing justice and due process.
relief inasmuch as the Courts are able with regards to the
harassment and torture from those known of such crimes.
Complainant seeks immediate relief from the
Complainant seeks
10
The Complainant seeks relief from stalking and
11
harassing neighbors and requires law enforcement to make
12
sure households can identify all occupants and prove they
13
are entitled to the lease and/or deed.
14
seeks relief by awarding the Complainant his pro se
15
billings invoice.
16
the Complainant summary judgment in all cases filed before
17
the Lancaster County Court of Common Pleas in retaliation
18
for the arrogance of both the local law enforcement
19
community and the judicial system for the systematic abuse
20
of process and the extreme nature of the obstruction of
21
justice, which in itself is responsible for putting the
22
Complainant's life in harm's way on a daily basis.
23
June 27th, 2016.
24
25
The Complainant
The Complainant seeks relief by awarding
All right.
Changing gears.
Going back to the
list here of items that you've submitted.
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Date,
I think we left
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10
off talking about the cost of repairs for your computers
which were hacked.
going to move onto the next item, which is a wet dry vac.
So we talked about that.
Okay.
Tell me about that.
Let's see what they did to that one.
And we're
Oh, they
burnt the motor out.
Okay.
Oh, boy, that happened fairly recently.
When did that happen?

That
10
happened -- because I just replaced it.
11
March.
12
on Stonehill Road in Conestoga in 1995.
13
replaced it with was a compact unit.
14
broken was full-sized.
15
power motor.
16
I think the original price of the one I bought -- I want to
17
say it was 150.
I'm going to say
Now the wet dry vac I bought when I built my house

Now the one I
The one that was
I think it was, like, a two horse
The one I replaced it with I think was $69.
It was a Craftsman, the original one.
18
It was 21-years-old?
19
Yeah, yeah.
20
Okay.
21
Oh, yeah.
22
And one day you started -- you tried to use it and
23
Did you use it on a regular basis?
it didn't work?
24
25
work.
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Yeah, worked the day before and then it didn't
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Okay.
I guess it was February.
Cordless phone, tell me about that.

I have magicJack.
Are
you familiar with that?
No.
It's where you use the internet for your phone.
Like a Voice Over --
Yeah.
-- what do they call that -- VOI?
Only it's different in that they give you a module
10
that you connect to your computer.
11
All right.
12
Now what I did was -- they came out with a new
13
version where you connect it to your Comcast router so that
14
instead of -- before with the old version, you had to have
15
the computer on for the phone to work.
16
I upgraded to the new version and connected it to my
17
Comcast server.
18
So I went to Radio Shack and bought a new cordless phone.
19
Well, it lasted a month and doesn't work anymore.
So I switched over.
So that means the magicJack is live 24/7.
20
Did you take it back?
21
No.
22
Why not?
23
Just too busy.
What I do on that line -- I
24
forward it anyway to my cell phone number, and I was using
25
it just, you know, sporadically.
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1
2
3
I would think after a month they would -- they
would replace it?

A
They probably would.
priorities.
replace it.
I'm just too busy, just
I mean I could probably take it back now and
I would think so.
Oh, boy, what a mess that was.
Cable boxes and modem.

Okay.
Let's see.
I guess in February or March I went to upgrade all my cable
boxes.
And at the same time, somebody from Comcast told me
10
that if I hook up to Comcast Business I would get a more
11
secure internet connection and a faster connection.
12
hook up to Comcast Business on a 60 day trial.
13
me a box, a new -- or, in fact, no, they came out and
14
installed it -- a new router.
15
reversed everything and said no, it's not more secure.
16
I disconnected it.
17
my cable boxes, but they never worked.
18
back and forth to Comcast two or three times.
19
techs would come out.
20
I don't know if people put chips in them.
21
they just sabotaged them or what.
So I
They send
And after two weeks, they
Then I went to Comcast and upgraded all

I mean I was going
Service
They couldn't find the problem.
You don't know why they're not working?
23
Comcast doesn't even know why.
They couldn't
24
even -- I'd get billed for HBO for three months, and I
25
never had HBO.
I mean it wouldn't work.
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So
I don't know if
22
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getting on the phone with customer service spending two
hours -- one time two and a half hours, and it still didn't
work.
Okay.
That was probably two months ago, three months
They still couldn't fix it.

How long ago was that?
ago, after the first of the year, probably the second
quarter.
Are they still trying to fix the problem?
I stopped trying.
10
Okay.
11
12
I mean I just -- you know.
The 100 dollar cost to replace, is that
just the value of the cable boxes and the modems or modem?
A
Yeah, I guess what they did is they billed me.
13
Comcast Business billed me.
14
yeah, that's basically what it is.
They all billed me.
I mean,
15
They billed you more because it was a business --
16
Oh, yeah -- no, they billed me because they would
17
not accept the return of the modem.
18
then, and they wouldn't pick it up.
19
20
21
22
I couldn't return it
Do you have any written correspondence between
yourself and Comcast over the issue?

A
Yeah, I have notes.
I have -- yeah, I have emails
I guess, yeah.
23
Do you have any of them with you?
24
No.
25
Would you be willing to forward those to me?
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that.
But it was a mess.
I even
think I recorded the one tech that came to my door.
He got
smart with me.
this.
Yeah, I can dig those up, something pertaining to

I mean I forget exactly.
I had to throw him off my property.
I'm probably going to butcher the pronunciation of

Is it Sakrete or Sakrete?
Oh, Sakrete, yeah.
Listen what they did.
had -- I was putting post holes -- putting posts in my back
yard for a six foot wooden fence.
And what these kids next
10
door were doing was they were going and wetting the bags,
11
ruining the whole bag.
12
know how heavy Sakrete is when it's hardened cement?
Now that's not the issue.
Do you
13
Yeah, I got a sense for that.
14
I had to break it up and put it in buckets and
15
take it out to the alley.
16
So basically they ruined the bags?
17
Oh, yeah.
18
Made them unusable?
19
Yeah.
20
All right.
21
Yeah.
22
Is that $4 a bag or --
23
Yeah.
And you have $12 there?
That's not the half of it.
They filled in
24
the holes before I could -- I had to dig the holes out two
25
or three times.
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When you say they, again who is they?
I assume it's the people next door.
They are the
ones who sic the pit bull on me that I had to go to the
hospital for two weeks ago.
Oh, gees.
Oh, yeah.
Are you all right?
I had to go to the ER and take antibiotics for 10
days.
10
11
Okay.
The next item I have is just miscellaneous
clothes, $100?
12
Yeah, they are always ruining my clothes.
13
Ruining them or stealing them?
14
Both.
15
When you say ruining them, what do you mean by
16
that?
17
They'll put spots on them so I can't wear them,
18
the shirts, or they'll shrink them.
19
slippers they make big.
20
kinds of tricks.
They've done that.
So I can't wear those.
My
I mean all
21
I'm sorry?
22
Slippers big.
23
They made them big.
24
If you -- I have those three experts I mentioned.
25
They made -So I can't wear them.
They all talk about -- the first thing they do in these
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programs is break into your house, and it's impossible,
impossible to find out how they get in.
were here.
Forced entry?
Yes, a broken window --
No ---
-- a broken door.
-- in '87, I did.
10
And I think we talked about this last time you

You don't have any signs of forced entry?
Well, I had forced entry by the
Lancaster City Police last July on a 302 warrant.
11
Yeah, you told me about that.
12
But other than that, forced entry, no, no.
13
14
15
16
Signs
of entry, but not forced.

Q
When you say signs of entry, you define that by
the fact things were missing?

A
Moved, missing, lights on that were off or off
17
that were on, things like that.
18
porch -- you know, if I go out in the evening, I'll leave
19
my front porch light on.
20
and, you know, hard to get in, you know, to see your key
21
hole and things like that.
22
23
24
25
The other night my
Well, I came home and it's off
It's harassment.
The next item you have is vapor electronic
cigarettes?
A
Oh, yeah, now they help you reduce smoking regular
cigarettes.
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These are the E-Cigs?
Yeah, but they are the pens with cartridges.
are expensive.
like at Turkey Hill or something.
that -- they are three in one.
or dry herbs.
nicotine.
think, I think one after that.
They
They are not the ones you buy in the store

These are the ones
You can smoke waxes, oils
Now what I get is, like, six milligrams of
It's in liquid form.
They stole my fifth one I
All from home?
10
Oh, yeah, yeah, all from home, yeah, five of them.
11
I mean that sounds like the kind of thing -- I
12
13
14
15
16
17
mean I'm famous for leaving things behind at restaurants.

A
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, I don't leave this behind.
No, no, they were stolen.

Q
Same thing, you don't know when they got in, how
they got in, but they are just not there anymore?
A
Well, I mean in 2009 -- let me give you an
18
example.
19
document daily in journals all the incidents that I'm
20
describing.
21
every day.
In 2010, I said I have enough documentation.
22
That's it.
I mean it's a full-time job.
23
those.
Okay.
This is what I used to do.
I used to
I did that for about a year, very detailed,
I can send you
I mean I have those in PDF form.
24
Yeah.
25
I can send you those.
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I mean I can email those to
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you.
the Court?
This whole thing is the emergency injunction.
All right.
It looks like this is something that's filed with
Well, I mean that should be available
online.
I'd say three days.
This is filed with the prothonotary --
Yes.
10
-- in Civil Court?
11
Yeah, I can show you the stamped pages.
I just
12
had to make copies.
13
I'm waiting for a cartridge to be delivered today.
14
you page to the left, you'll see the three pages that were
15
stamped.
My toner mysteriously went out, and

But if
16
That's not what I was supposed to get there.
17
There you go.
18
down.
19
20
21
If you swipe it -- no, it's up and
There is four pages stamped there.

Yeah, it just has the time stamp on it.
It
doesn't have the docket number.

A
No, yeah, they didn't -- I guess I could have
22
maybe got them to give me a docket number, but they didn't.
23
You know, I didn't push it.
24
All right.
25
Here you can see the -- there's the state cover
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1
2
3
sheet.
Q
Yeah, they didn't stamp it with a docket number
either.
This is the civil cover sheet.
Okay.
And this is the first page of the injunction.
Judge Margaret Miller ruled on mine in '09 and
essentially -- it was similar to this.
what she said was that I didn't provide her enough evidence
10
for her to rule in my favor.
11
she said.
12
victim of mind control.
13
because I got corroborating witnesses.
But this time it's a lot different
Okay.
15
Dr. Nick Begich.
Who are the corroborating witnesses?

He's an expert in mind control
technologies.
17
Where is he out of?
18
Alaska.
19
In a nutshell, that's what
Plus she said she didn't really believe I was a
14
16
And essentially
Administration.
His father was killed by the Hoover

He was a U.S. congressman.
20
What was the last name again?
21
Begich, B-e-g-i-c-h.
I'm sorry.
Now his brother just
22
finished a term in Congress last year in the Senate.
23
Anyway, his father back in -- I forget what year it was --
24
was traveling with the Speaker of the House, Wayne Boggs,
25
and they were both killed in a plane accident.
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And they
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20
were raising hell about Hoover with his CoIntel Program.
So anyway, Nick Begich began doing research on the HARP
Installation in Alaska, which is a 180 antenna array that
is the focus or the basis for electromagnetic weapons.
It's called HARP.
convinced the European Parliament to ban electromagnetic
weapons.
transcript of his lecture in October of 2015, and he gave a
lecture during the Covert Harassment Conference in Belgium.
10
Now back about eight years ago, he
So he's a renowned expert.
Now I have a
I think it was Belgium.
11
Okay.
12
Yes, then I have Karen Stewart.
13
You mentioned her.
14
Karen Stewart is a former NSA whistleblower.
15
National Security Agency when you say NSA?
16
Yeah, yeah.
Do you have other witnesses?
She blew the whistle in 2004.
Now
17
she just emailed me three weeks ago.
18
information, and she emailed me back and said thank you for
19
it.
20
determined that some weaponry that was being used over in
21
Afghanistan and Iraq wasn't performing up to standards.
22
And she more or less drew attention to it to the U.S.
23
Military, and somebody took credit for her work.
24
became an NSA whistleblower.
25
same problems I did, people breaking in her house,
I emailed some
Anyway, she -- essentially what happened was she
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And she
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electromagnetic weapon attacks, things like that.
Now the NSA is critical for two reasons.
I blew
the whistle on ISC, the Lancaster firm selling arms to
Iraq.
was with the NSA.
director of the NSA, was on their board of directors.
also owns a company that deals in mind control.
Bill Clinton nominated him to be the Secretary of Defense,
and he withdrew because of the ISC scandal.
Their first program -- their first contract in 1973

Bobby Ray Inman, who was the former
He
In 1994,
Plus on March
10
9th, the NSA took me into custody, false imprisoned me for
11
an hour and a half and had eight security police
12
interrogate me for no reason.
13
Of this year, March of this year?
14
Yeah, down in Fort Meade.
15
Where is Fort Meade?
16
That's the NSA.
17
Is Fort Meade in Colorado?
18
Maryland.
19
Oh, I'm sorry.
20
Dogs at my car, handcuffed me, interrogated me and
21
then told me I couldn't go down to Washington, D.C. and
22
told me I wasn't allowed on federal property anymore, which
23
was a lie.
24
of them.
25
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I walked away and essentially made a fool out
Karen Stewart, where is she located?
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Well, she worked down in Fort Meade, Maryland, but
she since -- after she blew the whistle and started having
symptoms, she moved to Florida -- I believe that's where
she's at now -- with family.
Okay.
I got a little sidetracked there.
Let me
bring you back to the next item, which is HVLP tips.
they related to the cigarettes?
8
9
A
sprayer.
Are
No, no, that's a high-volume,low-pressure paint

What they did was -- I bought a used one at the
10
Reuse It Store off of Pitney Road out near Greenfield
11
Industrial Park.
12
come with it, so different velocities for the paint, like
13
smaller and larger.
14
instruction manual and brushes to clean it.
15
everything in a clear plastic bag to keep it all together.
16
I went to use the sprayer, and the bag was gone.
17
to go out and buy a brand-new HVLP.
18
one I bought -- I think I paid 60 for it.
19
20
21
Okay.
And I brought it home, and I put -- tips
It comes with three tips.
Tips.
So I put
It cost me $119.
The
What did you lose two of?
Yeah, what they did was they put the small
22
tip in.
23
you know, you need the larger tip.
24
thought I could replace the tips, but you can't.
25
to replace the whole thing.
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So I had
You have a quantity lost two and then
estimated cost to replace 45.

A
It had an
So I'm trying to spray stain for my fence, and,
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But I said 45.
I
So I had
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1
2
Okay.
I don't mean to be redundant.
So I'm just
going to ask you --
That's all right.
-- a blanket question here if it applies to all of
these items here, and I'll show it to you.
items, you don't have -- or you're not willing to produce a
receipt.
8
9
For all these
Correct?
Only if you give me a guarantee that you're going
to pay the claim.
10
And I've told you I can't do that.
11
Okay.
12
None of these items have been reported as lost or
13
stolen or damaged to the police.
Correct?
14
To the police?
15
Yes.
16
I'm in this injunction accusing the police of
17
trying to kill me.
No, I mean I can't.
18
All right.
19
That's what abuse of process is.
20
21
And none of these items -It's when the
police do not take your complaints.

Q
And for any of these items, you do not have -- you
22
can't tell me specifically who it was who stole it or broke
23
it or whatever the case may be?
24
No.
25
All right.
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question.
I can -- I can tell you this.
Since 2006, the
neighbors at 1252 Fremont Street have been engaged in a
constant harassment and threat campaign no matter who is in
that house.
Has there been a change in --
Oh, yeah, three times.
Is it a rental house?
Yes.
10
Do you know who the current residents are?
11
No, they don't tell me the truth, no.
I mean I
12
filed a private criminal complaint against them in the
13
County D.A.'s Office this year.
14
harass me.
15
happened June 10th.
16
Center on College Avenue.
17
and 10 Vicodin.
18
shots, but I didn't do it.
19
have the hospital report.
They are Spanish.
They are the ones who sic the dog on me.
That
I went to Lancaster Regional Medical

Dr. Westphal gave me antibiotics
Now he wanted me to go through rabies

I said the dog wasn't rabid.
20
The next item is a staple airgun?
21
Right.
22
That was theft.
23
They
They stole my staple airgun.

That wasn't damaged.
That was
theft?
24
Yeah, theft.
25
When was that?
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That was theft.
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This all -- this all happened when I started
erecting the new six foot fence and a screened-in porch in
my back.
And I started construction March 10th.
So sometime after March 10th?
Yeah.
And I don't know if I asked you about the HVLP
tips.
I'm going to say in May.
Of this year?
10
Yeah.
11
I also don't think I asked you about the five
12
13
But when were those taken?
vapor electronic cigarette cartridges.

A
Okay.
I bought my first one -- let me see.
14
say that was all after January 1st.
15
after January 1st.
16
I bought one at the convenience store on Manor or
17
Millersville Pike, Hershey Avenue.
18
19
20
21
22
I'd
Yeah, they were all
I bought one downtown at Puff N' Stuff.
In doing the math here, it looks like they go for
about 50 to $60 a piece?

A
Yeah, some are -- that's the minimum.
last one I bought was $79.

Q
Okay.
I think the
That's the minimum price.
The next one is a belt for $9.
Are we
23
talking about, you know, a belt to hold your pants up, that
24
kind of belt?
25
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Yeah, yeah.
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Stolen, damaged?
Stolen.
When?
Within the past two months.
The next one is a 36 inch by 100 feet --
Oh, yeah.
-- black screen?
That was to do my screened-in porch.
replace it.
10
Stolen?
11
Stolen.
12
13
14
In fact, I just bought that -- I replaced
that probably a month ago.

Q
I'm sorry?
You just replaced the screen for the
screened-in porch?
15
Yeah, it's a roll.
16
Right.
17
roll.
18
19
20
21
It's 100 by --
I'm familiar with them.
So it was on the
Somebody just took the roll?

Yeah, it was in a plastic bag, yeah, plastic
sleeve, yeah, took the whole roll.

Q
Okay.
And the last one is one pair of work
gloves?
22
Yeah.
23
I know what work gloves are.
24
Yeah.
25
I had to
Now here's what they do.
A lot of times
they'll steal it and then a week later they'll return it.
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I mean they play games like that.
warfare along with the theft and damages.
It's psychological
Were any of these items ever returned to you?
Some.
I mean I can't keep track.
list.
possession.
Some were.
Okay.
Then they'd steal them again.

It's hard to keep track of it.
As of today, are -- here, I'll show you the
Tell me if any of those items are in your
Let's see.
Well, some of these are damaged.
10
wished they returned the vapor electronic cigarettes.
11
the work gloves they did return.
12
them.
13
14
15
16
17
18
I
Now
I found where they put
So they are in your possession at least as of
today?
A
Yes, they are.
I don't know if they'll stay
there.
Q
Now is there anything that you would like to add
to supplement to this list?
19
As far as the list or evidence or what?
20
No, as far as the list of items.
21
Yeah, I could -- you know, I can update, yeah.
22
23
can send them to you.

Q
Of anything that you would add to that list, would
24
they all have been items in which were lost or damaged --
25
stolen or damaged in the same way as the items that we've
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discussed?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I got tired of making --
keeping lists.
think.
Okay.
morning -- I produced an exhibit, a DVD, a disk with this
case to the Courts.
myself.
That happened this morning.
But I -- well, let me do it now.
Let me see.
Let me
We talked about the new vapor pen.
Here is a for instance.
I went to -- this
So I have to make a copy today for
The DVD recorder doesn't work on my computer.

Yesterday -- oh, this morning
10
I found that two day's worth of photos in my phone were
11
missing from my computer.
12
and on.
13
anything substantial because I probably -- well, the toner
14
cartridge.
15
toner gets low, it will give you a warning that you need to
16
soon replace your toner.
17
document.
18
out, but it never gave me the warning.
19
capability of actually hacking into my copier because it's
20
a wireless copier.
21
22
Q
off.
I mean there is nothing -- I'm trying to think of
What happens is I have a copier.
And when the
Well, I'm producing this
And at the 611th page, it says black ink toner

So they have the
So I had to order a new ink cartridge.
Now you did mention -- and I don't mean to cut you

Is there anything else that you want to talk about?
23
No.
24
All right.
25
Yeah, you know, the list goes on
Now you did mention that you had
submitted two similar claims to other insurers?
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Yeah, yeah.
Tell me about those.
They were in '05 I was paid and '06.
I -- okay.
Conestoga, PA.
about the same, somewhere around $6,000.
schedule similar to this, and they paid from that schedule.
Now what they did was the one they paid the claim, but they
inflated the depreciation value.
It's when
It's when I lived at 220 Stonehill Road,

The claims were about -- I think they were
I produced a
So I filed a complaint
10
with the Pennsylvania Insurance Commission.
11
no, 2007 or 8, after I moved to 1250 Fremont Street, I
12
tried to file a claim.
13
filing that on my mother's property casualty policy.
14
would have filed another claim.
15
Now in 2006 --
But my brother blocked me from

So I
Now the insurance companies, they have a database
16
of all the insurance claims that are paid out.
17
familiar with that?
Are you
18
No.
19
Yeah, there's a database that actuaries use.
20
don't know how you access it or what.
21
have a correspondence from the Southern Regional Police
22
Department in 2006 -- 5 or 6 regarding all my complaints to
23
them about incidents regarding vandalism and thefts.
24
Southern Regional Police covered Conestoga Township back
25
then.
The other thing is I
Now
Now I went to try to find -- I know I had paperwork
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on the claims.
claims, but I can't find them in my computer.
I had copies of the checks, copies of the
Do you remember who the insurers were?
Harleysville was for one, maybe both of them, you
know.
Theft or damaged or --
Just like this, yeah.
And they were the same type of claims.
I tried to find them.
have backup disks now.
three laptop drives and two external hard drives from 2005
Unfortunately, there is -- I have
10
and 6 that are in my safety deposit box.
11
equipment so that I could more or less connect those drives
12
to my computer and read them, but the equipment would come
13
and it won't work.
14
until I'm more secure with the computer hacking, I can't do
15
anything with them.
16
even though they took them from my current drive.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
Q
you.
Okay.
I ordered
So I have them stored.
But, you know,
But I'm sure the claims are in there
I don't think I have any more questions for
Is there anything that you'd like to add to this?

A
No.
If you could tell me what you want other than
the receipts.
Q
There was a letter sent to you I believe sometime
between the first examination and the second examination.

A
24
morning.
25
that.
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I couldn't find it.
I tried to find it this
That's why I asked you what time.
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I don't think I have --
I think I have a hard copy, but I didn't want to
root through my file.
and I couldn't find it.
letter format because I scan everything?
6
7
I tried to find it on my computer

Did you email it or did it come in
I believe I was emailed a copy of it, but I
think -- I assume it was sent to you in letter format.
Are you talking about the one form Allstate --
Yes.
10
-- or the one from you?
11
No, no, the one from Allstate.
12
I have that.
13
That's what I'm talking about.
14
Yeah, I have that.
15
that.
16
They want a document filled out and --
17
Right.
18
-- forwarded back to them.
19
Was I supposed to bring that today?
20
It would have been helpful, but it's not
21
mandatory.
22
don't have to send it to me.
That's right.
Yeah, I have
If you could get it back to Mr. Eisenhard.
You
23
Okay.
24
Other than that, you know, I don't know that there
25
was -- whatever Allstate had requested.
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The only thing I
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1
2
was looking for were the receipts.

A
3
4
Okay.
MR. REESER:
Okay.
And we're done.
Thank you
very much.
THE WITNESS:
(Whereupon, the examination concluded at 10:12
Yeah.
a.m.)
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
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COUNTY OF DAUPHIN
COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
SS
3
I, Diane A. Smith, a Notary Public, authorized to
administer oaths within and for the Commonwealth of
Pennsylvania, do hereby certify that the foregoing is the
testimony of Stanley J. Caterbone.
I further certify that before the taking of said
examination, the witness was duly sworn; that the questions
and answers were taken down stenographically by the said
10
Reporter-Notary Public, and afterwards reduced to
11
typewriting under the direction of the said Reporter.
12
I further certify that the said examination was
13
taken at the time and place specified in the caption sheet
14
hereof.
15
I further certify that I am not a relative or
16
employee or attorney or counsel to any of the parties, or a
17
relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, or
18
financially interested directly or indirectly in this
19
action.
20
I further certify that the said examination
21
constitutes a true record of the testimony given by the
22
said witness.
23
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand
24
this 11th day of July, 2016.

_______________________________________________
Diane A. Smith, Reporter
Notary Public
25
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5
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8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
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21
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23
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EXAMINATION UNDER OATH OF

TAKEN BY:
ALLSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY
BEFORE:
DIANE F. FOLTZ, RMR

NOTARY PUBLIC
DATE:
JUNE 9, 2016, 9:15 A.M.
PLACE:
LANCASTER COUNTY BAR

ASSOCIATION
28 EAST ORANGE STREET
LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA
APPEARANCES:
MARSHALL, DENNEHEY, WARNER, COLEMAN & GOGGIN
BY: CHRISTOPHER M. REESER, ESQUIRE
FOR - ALLSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY
Stan Sponsored
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WITNESSES
NAME
BY: MR. REESER
EXAMINATION
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
EXHIBITS
13
14
CATERBONE EXHIBIT
15
1.
PRODUCED AND MARKED
LIST OF ITEMS
13
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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2
STANLEY J. CATERBONE, called as a witness, being

duly sworn, testified as follows:
3
4
EXAMINATION
BY MR. REESER:
Could you state your name, please?
Stanley J. Caterbone, C-a-t-e-r-b-o-n-e.
Would you mind if I called you Stan or Stanley?
Stan.
Stan, okay.
10
And my name's Chris Reeser.
You can
call me Chris.
11
All right.
12
I'm not a real formal guy.
I have been asked to
13
take a statement from you relative to an insurance claim
14
which I understood to have occurred as a result of
15
something on April 3rd of 2016, but by some correspondence
16
that I received from you, my understanding is that is not
17
the date of loss.
18
19
No.
That date is the date that I started the
spreadsheet --
20
Okay.
21
-- of the items lost or vandalized.
22
All right.
This statement is part of the process
23
of collecting information and evaluating the claim.
24
Allstate's policy, as does just about any insurance
25
company's policy, provides that part of the duty of an
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insured is to give an examination under oath --
Okay.
-- at the request of the insured -- at the
request of the insurer, so that is what this is.
I've had --
Go ahead.
I've had -- I've collected on two or three
Go ahead.
policies with the same types of claims, and I've never been
put under oath --
10
Okay.
11
-- on the record.
12
So noted.
13
Okay.
14
And I'll ask you about that.
15
And I don't mind under oath.
16
All right.
17
I just, you know --
18
All right.
19
-- have never experienced it.
20
Okay.
22
Sure.
23
This is part of what the insurer is allowed to
21
24
25
Well --
Well, a first time for everything.
This
is --
ask of their insured.

A
Stan Sponsored
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J. CaterboneMind
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Oh, I don't mind at all.
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Okay.
Great.
So I'm going to ask you some
questions about that.
Okay.
I usually when I take these statements -- and
I've taken a couple of them -- have some information about
the claim.
claim.
Okay.
So --
10
Can I give you a brief history --
11
Go.
12
-- to put it in perspective?
13
Yeah.
14
I am a federal whistleblower.
I have very little information about this
Go.
I blew the whistle
15
on International Signal Control or ISC in 1987.
They were
16
indicted in 1991 for a billion dollar fraud and selling
17
illegal arms to Iraq.
18
1987 they --
19
I'm sorry.
20
Yes.
21
operations.
22
Okay.
23
Now, since -- I've been trying to get into
Now, I was a shareholder, and in
You were a shareholder in ISC?
They solicited me to finance some
So I'm a legitimate, bona fide whistleblower.
24
courts, hired various attorneys from '87 all the way up.
25
In 2005 I entered the federal court system as a pro se
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litigant.
I filed my own claims.
Okay.
Okay.
Now, here's what happened.
I became a
victim of organized stalking, electronic harassment or mind
control technologies.
show you some expert testimony -- is that what they do is
they break into your home, vandalize, steal, move things
around.
policies making the same types of claims.
Now, what happens is -- and I'll
And since '05 I've collected on two or three
10
losses are not a single-day loss.
11
period of time.
Now, these
They happen over a
12
Okay.
13
And I can't give you dates as far as when what
14
was taken, when that was taken, but that's just a
15
background for your reference as far as this is not an
16
ordinary claim.
17
When you say they, who is they?
18
Well, I don't know, you know.
19
say.
20
be agents.
21
It could be neighbors.
It's impossible to
It could be police.
It could be anybody.
But you believe that they are all in conspiracy
22
to punish you because of your activity as a federal
23
whistleblower?
24
25
A
that.
It could
I'm going to refer you to documents to explain

As a victim of electronic harassment and gang
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stalking, the victim -- part of the victimization is that
they break into your home.
Okay.
But you don't know who the they is?
Well, of course not.
Have you ever seen anybody in the act?
I have one person on a security camera video.
Okay.
That was in 2006.
And was there an insurance claim related to that?
10
Not to that particular person, no.
11
All right.
12
But there was a claim that year.
Harleysville
13
paid me once or twice, and there was another one.
But
14
unfortunately I'm also the victim of computer hacking.
15
These are all the reports from the past year on Geek Squad
16
and other companies reviewing and analyzing and fixing my
17
hard drives after they've been hacked.
18
Okay.
19
I filed about, oh, boy, since '06 or '07 probably
20
about four or five IC3 reports with the FBI.
21
I don't know what an IC3 report is.
22
It's an online complaint regarding anything
23
fraudulent online to the FBI.
24
Okay.
25
I've had face-to-face meetings with the FBI
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probably about 15 times.
Locally?
Philly and Harrisburg.
Is there a particular agent that you meet with?
No.
Could you tell me the names of any of the agents
No.
that you meet with?
No.
Okay.
10
I can verify the meetings, I mean.
11
What -- what's the reason for the meetings?
12
Complaints --
13
Okay.
14
-- about people, what they're doing to me.
15
You said you're a victim of electronic
16
harassment.
17
Okay.
18
What have been the other forms?
19
They use microwave technology, microwaves to
Now, I understand what computer hacking is.

Electronic harassment.
20
alter your brain state.
21
cause extreme pain in any part of your body.
22
create synthetic telepathy.
23
with the weapons.
24
25
It causes extreme -- they can

They can
They can essentially kill you
Now, in the 1950's the Russians used it against

our -- the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, the same weapons.
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in the 1970's there was what's called the Church Committee.
The CIA had to come clean on these programs.
supposed to have stopped them, but they didn't, and that's
-- there's Senate testimony.
then was Stansfield Turner.
Senate, and they admitted to all the programs that I'm
describing.
Okay.
MKUltra was the main program.
10
How do you know that?
11
How do I know what?
12
I mean, how do you know you're a victim of
13
The Director of the CIA back

He testified before the
microwave technology to alter your brain waves?
14
15
They were
Some nights I can't walk.
The pain is that bad.
What do you mean how do I know?
16
I mean, I don't know.
17
Don't get smart with me, or I'll walk out this
I don't know.
18
door.
19
20
I'm not being smart.
I'm trying
to understand this.
21
Okay.
22
How do I -- you know, how do I know I'm not?
23
Do you ever complain about it?
24
I mean, I have pain.
25
pain.
I don't know why I have
I just -- I'm trying to understand.
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Listen, yesterday I filed 300 pages in the
Pennsylvania Supreme Court on a case against Lancaster City
Police and the county residents.
Okay.
There are -- there is expert testimony in here
from, one, an NSA whistleblower named Karen Stewart who
will back up just about everything I say.
from a Julianne McKinney who is a former Army intelligence
officer.
The second is
The third is from a renowned expert named Nick
10
Begich whose father was killed by someone in the Hoover
11
Administration.
12
read them.
There are transcripts in here.
You can
13
Okay.
14
You can learn all about it.
15
May I have this?
16
No.
17
Okay.
18
Or I can give you it in electronic format.
19
20
21
22
23
You can make a copy.
have a PDF around my neck.

Q
I'll give you a copy.
Well, I see that it's a Petition for Allowance of
Appeal which means that it's -A
I'm appealing a Superior Court decision to the
Pennsylvania Supreme Court.
24
Okay.
25
I'm a very successful litigator by the way.
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1
How --
I'm the amicus for Kathleen Kane in her criminal
case in the Superior Court in Philadelphia.
movant for Lisa Michelle Lambert.
I'm also the
Okay.
I've got three Third Circuit cases now that are
7
8
9
10
awaiting decisions.
Q
And this is an appeal from the Lancaster County
Court of Common Pleas.
I assume it went then to the
Superior Court?
11
I took it to the Superior Court, right.
12
Okay.
13
They dismissed it --
14
Okay.
15
-- two weeks before oral arguments.
16
And what happened there?
Oral
arguments were scheduled for May 24th.
17
Okay.
18
They were scheduled since January.
Both cases
19
were arguably -- I mean, maliciously dismissed two weeks
20
before oral arguments.
21
before them.
22
23
Okay.
They didn't want me to appear
Give me some background.
you worked -- maybe I misheard you.
24
No.
25
Okay.
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I mean, you said
Did you work for ISC?
You were a stockholder?
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Yes.
Okay.
He was a stockbroker back then.
he is?
Gib Armstrong sold me the stock in 1983.
Do you know who
Former Pennsylvania Senator.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the name.
Are you
employed right now?
No, I'm -- I collect Social Security disability
for symptoms and illnesses related to U.S. mind control,
documented, verified.
10
Huh.
11
They've been paying me since '08.
12
Okay.
13
for that?
Do they -- do they pay you by the month
Is it --
14
You never heard of Social Security disability?
15
I have.
16
Yeah.
17
Okay.
18
My first check was for $21,000.
They paid me.
19
applied in '09.
20
'05 when I declared I was full-time telepathic, but they
21
could only pay me back one year.
22
to '09 in one check, and then I've been getting monthly
23
checks ever since.
24
25
Okay.
They declared me disabled in December of
So they paid me back '08
Well, let's talk about this claim a little
bit.
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1
Okay.
I'm going to have this marked as Exhibit 1.
I have a new one here.
Okay.
Well, why don't you -- why don't we mark
-- can I take that, or do you need that?
Yeah.
No.
Okay.
We won't mark the one I have.
Here.
That's updated.
MR. REESER:
Do you want to put a sticker
(List of items produced and marked Exhibit No.
13
1.)
14
BY MR. REESER:
16
Okay.
on there?
12
15
Every day I have stuff
missing.
10
11
This is for you.
All right.
Now, I'm just going to go through
these items that you have --
17
Yeah.
18
-- listed in order from top to bottom.
19
You're
making a claim for a dishwasher?
20
Right.
21
Is this a dishwasher that was in your home?
22
Yeah, but you know -- I'm trying to think what
23
year that was actually broken.
24
Scratch the dishwasher off of that.
25
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That might predate this.
The dishwasher is not being claimed, correct?
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Yes.
Yes, let's take that off.
All right.
And I should ask you this beforehand.
I kind of lost track.
Your brief or your petition that was
filed to the Supreme Court listed an address of 1250
Freemont Street.
That's -- that's your home address?
Yes.
Okay.
No.
All right.
10
In fact, I sent a copy of the deed in with the
11
claim.
12
13
Does anybody else live there with you?
I believe I saw that, which I think there were a
number of grantees.
14
My brothers.
15
Okay.
16
No.
17
And they wouldn't be insured under the Allstate
18
But none of them live there?
policy?
19
Yeah, they're listed as other insureds.
20
Okay.
21
Yeah.
22
Okay.
23
Do any of these items -- are they owners
of any of the items?
24
No.
25
Okay.
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I purchased the policy for everybody.

Front and back door locks?
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Right.
Tell me about that.
Okay.
In July of 2015 -- yeah, July, 2015, the
benevolent Lancaster City Police Department served me with
a 302 petition, but what they did was they broke into my
house, smashed in the front door.
to pay for all the locks and the door, but they didn't.
8
9
10
Now, they were supposed
So I had to get a new front door, and I had to

get all the locks changed in the front and back door,
rekeyed.
11
Okay.
12
Mental health warrant.
13
All right.
14
I've had about eight of them.
15
do.
302 petition?
That's what they
That's part of the slander campaign.
16
What do they --
17
That's pretty routine.
18
What do they claim?
19
Well, I'm mentally ill.
20
Okay.
21
That's their -- that's their defense.
22
Is there a form of mental illness that they try
23
I make all this up.
to pin on you?
24
Oh, yeah.
25
What?
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Which one do you want?
Oh, there's been more than one?
Bipolar, schizophrenic, delusional disorder, you
4
5
6
What year?
name it.
Q
Okay.
Were you hospitalized or
institutionalized --
Oh, yeah.
-- as a result -- as a result of this one, the
one in July?
10
Oh, yeah, Fairmont.
11
For how long?
12
Oh, that was about five -- eight days, I guess.
13
And how did that end?
14
They always -- they give me a hearing.
15
Then they
have to release me.
16
Okay.
17
They're always pretty much the same.
It started
18
in '87.
19
Harbor Beach Patrol.
20
was making a movie with Tony Bongiovi who owns Power
21
Station Studios, one of the world's most famous recording
22
studios.
23
The first one was was somebody called up the Stone

My resume's in there.
In 1987 we're making a movie.
24
for an office down in Stone Harbor.
25
the movie in New Jersey on the boardwalk.
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But in 1987 I
I rented a home
We were going to shoot

Somebody called
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1
the Stone Harbor Police Department and said I was running
to the beach to kill myself, totally made up, fabricated.
That's how it all started with the mental illness.
Okay.
Okay.
Smashed in your front door?
Oh, yeah, with -- like a drug raid.
So going back to the door for a second --
I stood
there and took pictures of them as they came through.
Do you actually have the pictures?
10
Oh, yeah, it's part of it.
11
Part of?
12
The -- they're in here.
Oh, let me see.
No, they're in this one.
This one.
No.
Where
13
are they?
These
14
are black and white.
15
pages.
16
only reason you could do that is if someone -- is if you
17
knew that someone was in there with a gun to their head.
18
was in -- I was in the upstairs window talking to them
19
trying to get them to get away from me quite honestly.
They're hard to see, but the next two
Totally illegal what they did.
The only way, the
20
Okay.
21
I filed a lawsuit against Lancaster City Police
22
in '08.
It's a federal lawsuit.
23
one of the documents I have here.
In fact, that's part of
24
Is that still ongoing?
25
I withdrew without prejudice because of the
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1
computer hacking, so I can re-file, go back to it any time
I want.
Okay.
Most of my lawsuits I withdrew without prejudice.
5
6
I just couldn't litigate with all the hacking.

Q
Can -- do you have any photographs that show the
damage to the door?
I mean, I see a door that's open.
see a police officer --
Yeah.
10
-- apparently standing there.
11
Yeah.
12
Okay.
13
In fact, I bought the door at the Habitat reuse
Yeah, I do.
14
it store.
But what happened was they charged me like $400
15
to change all the locks.
Wizard Lock did it.
16
Do you have -- do you have the receipt for that?
17
Yeah, I could dig that up.
18
You don't have it with you right now?
19
No.
20
You bought the door -- I'm sorry -- Habitat?
21
For Humanity.
22
Habitat?
23
Habitat for Humanity.
24
Oh, Habitat for Humanity.
25
The reuse it store.
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I'm a little hard of hearing.
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Reuse it.
Out on Old Philadelphia Pike back behind
Greenfield.
door than was on there.
The door looks brand new, I mean, a better
The door, the replacement door you bought there?
Yeah.
What about the original door, was that -- had
8
9
that been there for years?

A
No, that was done in 1996.
My mother was part of
10
the Lancaster City Homeowners Rehab or Revitalization or
11
Rehab Program where if you qualify, they'll come in and
12
rehab your home, bring it up to code and put a seven-year
13
lien on your house for the cost of the improvements.
14
year 10 -- 10 or 15 percent comes off, so if you stay in
15
the house for 7 years, it's all free.
16
I see.
17
So the doors are part of that.
18
Okay.
19
'96 at the time.
20
And you may have said this.
21
didn't get it.
22
that -- the replacement door?
23
$20.
24
$20?
25
Yes.
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Each
I apologize if I
How much did you actually pay for the door
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But it cost you 400 to get the locks replaced?
Yeah.
And that was done again by?
Wizard.
Wizard.
Locks.
And you can get me the receipt?
Yeah.
And my question about that was going to be did
Yeah.
10
you report this to the police, but I guess given the
11
circumstances --
12
Here's the situation.
I've -- I've been
13
reporting to the police ever since it started, but usually
14
they're part of the program.
15
complaints.
16
to sue them.
17
Okay.
18
I have letters which are a part of the documents
They won't take my
I mean, I had to sue them.
That's why I had
19
going to the police explaining the vandalism and the
20
break-ins that they won't, you know, report on or
21
investigate or...
22
And this happened July of '15?
23
July 8th, I think, yeah, 2015.
24
July 8th, 2015, okay.
25
Was there any other damage
done, physical damage to your house done --
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No.
-- as a result of that incident?
Just the door.
Okay.
5
6
The next one I have on your list is an
Apple Video iPod.

A
Right.
What they did was I can't -- the menu
button doesn't work.
'05 or '06.
Okay.
10
I since bought a replacement for it.
11
All right.
12
Now, that iPod I bought back in 2006,
You bought -- this particular Apple
Video iPod you bought in '05 or '06?
13
Yeah.
14
Where did you buy it at?
15
I might have bought it at a Best Buy in Florida.
16
Okay.
17
Boy, 3, $400 probably.
18
Okay.
19
It's when they first came out, so the video iPods
20
Do you remember what you paid for it?
And then when did you --
were expensive.
21
Yeah.
22
No.
23
-- just an iPod?
24
Right, video iPod.
25
And then you noticed a problem with it when?
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This wasn't an iPhone.
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1
2
The button, you can't push the button, the main
button.
Okay.
Oh, boy.
fall of '15.
Okay.
No.
-- Best Buy or a repair store?
No, you can't.
10
Why not?
11
Why?
12
I mean, if I had a problem with my iPhone and
14
I'm not going to pay to get it fixed.
15
Okay.
16
I bought a replacement.
17
Okay.
13
18
19
20
21
22
23
When did you discover that?

Let me think.
That was probably in the
Did you take it to --
No.
No.
I --
Why is that -- I'm not -- I don't
understand why that's part of the insurance claim.

A
Because it was in my house and the house is
covered by the insurance.

Q
I mean, how do you know it just didn't -- I mean,
things wear down over time.

A
I mean --
I'm telling you the truth.
If you don't believe
24
me, that's fine, but don't -- don't harass me with
25
questions.
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1
2
I'm here to ask you questions, sir.
trying to get an understanding as to -- things wear out.
I told you what happened.
Okay.
They broke it.
They broke it?
Yes, someone broke it.
All right.
It's funny.
10
One day the button works, and the
next day it doesn't.
11
Okay.
12
Right.
13
How old --
14
I've had probably three stolen.
15
Oh, it was stolen?
16
Oh, yeah.
17
Okay.
18
I don't remember.
19
20
21
I'm just
or four stolen.
Q
Okay.
Bluetooth headset for phone.
When?
In the past year.
I had three
I had to buy replacements.

Well, you list $60, and that sounds about
what the value of a new Bluetooth would be.
22
Oh, no.
23
Oh, okay.
24
Does it say three beside there?
25
No, it doesn't.
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No.
That's for three of them, I think.
Well, no.
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It says item number,
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1
but they're consecutive.
not a quantity.
I'm assuming that's not -- that's
Oh, didn't the quantity print out?
that.
Oh, the quantity didn't print out.
be three.
No.
Let me see
That should
All right.
I paid like 20 bucks apiece for them up at Radio
Shack.
Do you have the receipts for them?
10
I'm not going to dig up all these receipts.
11
really not.
12
is harassment.
13
14
Maybe I didn't put the quantity in.
I'm a busy guy.
I'm
I can't be -- you know, this
Does that mean you don't have them, or you're
just not going to -- you're not going to dig them up?
15
I'm not going to take the time to dig them up.
16
Okay.
17
I have all my receipts.
18
back to '80, '82.
19
Okay.
20
I document everything.
21
I have my tax returns
I'm an expert in
information technologies.
22
Where in your house --
23
I have worked all over the world for the record.
24
I did defense contracts, optical publishing.
25
of -- I was one of four companies in the late '80's, early
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I was one
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1
'90's that could manufacture CD-ROMs, me alone.
business.
were stolen?
Where did I have them?
Yeah.
It depends where I was.
Where were they stolen from?
Most likely either the bedroom which is in the
10
Okay.
I know my
basement.
Where in your house were the headsets that
In the bedroom, living room?
Yeah, the bedroom.
What do you mean?
Yeah.
11
Was there any sign of unlawful entry?
12
No, never is.
13
about that.
14
15
You'll read, the experts tell you
And I assume there was no report to the police
about these --
16
I can't report to the police anymore.
17
Okay.
Is it fair to say that with regard to any
18
of these items you haven't -- so I don't have to keep
19
asking you this, that you didn't report it to the police?
20
21
They get emails from me, but, no, there's no
official report.
22
All right.
23
The last official report I made was two thousand
24
-- was July 8th of 2015.
25
to report the computer hacking, and that night at 11:30
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I went down to the police again
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they signed the mental health warrant on me --
Okay.
-- and gave me a bogus incident report.
All right.
The Bluetooth headsets, the three of
them were taken after that?
After what?
After the 302 petition.
Let me think.
Okay.
10
11
12
Yeah.
Yeah.
You don't have any idea who it was who
took them?
A
If I did I'd give you a name and report that to
everybody.
13
Okay.
14
Yes.
The hammer drill.

They broke it.
I'd say March 9th I started
15
my -- I'd say in March, 2016.
I'm putting on a new
16
screened-in porch on my back and a six-foot fence.
17
it worked.
18
buy a replacement.
The next day it didn't.
One day
So I had to go out and
19
How old was it?
20
I bought that one -- that's about the second or
21
third one they broke.
That one I bought on eBay in
22
probably -- when did I buy that one?
23
Do you still have it?
24
No.
25
Did you throw it out?
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Maybe '08.
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Yeah.
All right.
You didn't take it someplace to see
if it could be fixed?
No.
What did you buy it for, how much?
How much?
How much.
Oh, boy.
9
10
That was a DeWalt.
I don't know -- $300 I think, 280.
New they're like --
I probably paid -- I
think I paid 60 something for that, somewhere around $60 --
11
Okay.
12
-- on eBay.
13
And then did you buy a replacement for it?
14
Yeah.
15
What did that cost?
16
The replacement I bought at -- oh, the tool store
17
out there next to the off-track betting.
18
of it?
19
Harbor Freight?
20
Harbor Freight.
21
drill.
22
Okay.
24
What is it?
25
Maybe 100?
23
What's the name
Harbor Tools.
I paid I think 60 for the hammer
But you have -- you have 100 listed here,
so --
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Maybe it was 100.
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Maybe.
Okay.
Reciprocating saw.
Yeah.
What they did was they rigged it so that
the blade doesn't stay in.
You can't use it.
It just --
When you turn it on it comes out?
Well, when you use it, it comes out when you're
sawing.
Okay.
You can't -- you can't tighten it.
10
work, but it stopped.
11
I bought that at Lowe's.
12
13
It used to
That replacement I bought -- I think
The one, the one that's broken or the one, the
replacement one?
14
The replacement.
15
Where did you buy the one that's broken?
16
Harbor Tools.
17
Harbor Freight?
18
Harbor Freight.
19
Okay.
20
23
24
25
When did
you buy that?
21
22
Just so we're on the same page.
A
'06.
'05.
Q
Oh, boy.
Let's see.
I might have bought that in
'05, '06.
Okay.
Did you use that on a regular basis or
just once in a while?

A
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What do you mean on a regular basis?
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Did you use it once a week?
No.
Okay.
No.
No.
No.
No.
Did you use it --
No.
Reciprocating saws I probably used less
than any other tool actually.
I mean, a couple times?
But if I have a project I might use it a lot in a
8
9
10
11
12
two-week span.
Q
Yeah.
I mean, some people are do-it-yourself,
fixer-upper kind of people, and some people -A
Well, I used to have a contracting business in
college.
13
All right.
14
Stan Caterbone Painting and Renovating.
15
But you bought this in '05, '06?
16
assuming --
17
Right.
18
-- you were out of college by then.
19
I'm just saying I have experience.
20
21
22
I mean, I'm
I'm not just
a do-it-yourselfer.
Q
Well, no.
My -- some people do a lot of work
with their tools, and other people --
23
Oh, I do.
24
-- don't.
25
I do.
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1
2
Okay.
And that's what I'm getting at.
I'm
trying to understand.
I do.
I don't.
Okay.
So I could have something for ten years, and it
doesn't get any use at all.
No.
I understand.
And some people have it --
10
I use my tools.
11
-- for ten years, and they use it every day.
12
I use my stuff.
13
Fair enough.
And you got a replacement at
14
Lowe's, and you have $100 here.
15
paid for the replacement?
Is that about what you
16
Uh-huh.
17
Do you have the receipt?
18
Yeah.
19
Okay.
20
Is it fair to say you're not going to dig
that up?
21
No.
22
Okay.
23
I didn't have to for the other claims.
24
25
No.
I'm not going to do that.
I'm not
going to do it for your company.

Q
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Okay.
IPhone 5C, was that stolen?
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Broken.
When?
In fact, I got scammed on that, the 5C, the end
of last year.
Here's what happened.
They broke it, right,
so I put it on eBay to sell it so someone could reprogram
it, the software.
broken on it because it functioned, everything, but the
software was not functioning.
I assumed the software was what was
Okay.
So I put it on eBay.
Right.
Somebody bought it.
10
They hacked my PayPal account.
So someone said that they
11
paid me with electronic funds.
Well, PayPal doesn't use
12
electronic funds.
13
the money.
PayPal you use your account to transfer
Right.
14
Like a Visa account?
15
What's that?
16
Or a PayPal account.
17
PayPal account.
18
Okay.
19
So what they did was they filed a claim saying
Oh, a PayPal account.
20
that I never sent them the iPhone.
I wasn't going to send
21
it until I got -- until I verified the money was in my
22
account.
23
Uh-huh.
24
But because my PayPal account was hacked, I
25
couldn't access my PayPal account.
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Right.
Now, in my
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PayPal account I had a cash balance of like $400.
went and awarded them judgment.
judgment.
So eBay
In eBay terms I'm saying
Uh-huh.
So they took the $150 or whatever selling price
out of my account, so I'm out the phone, plus the $150.
Okay.
So they scammed me.
All my accounts are hacked.
I file -- in all the courts I have electronic filing
10
privileges, Third Circuit, U.S. District Court, all the
11
state courts, the local courts.
12
which is the system where you file electronically --
Right.
My PACER account
13
I'm familiar with PACER.
14
-- I've been hacked since, oh, boy, November.
15
So
I got to run down to Philly every two weeks --
16
Okay.
17
-- to get my dockets, just to get dockets for all
18
19
20
my cases.
Q
Let me go back.
I'm -- you lost me on the phone
at some point.
21
Okay.
22
You had the phone.
23
phone?
24
Right, after it was unusable to me.
25
After it was unusable.
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You were looking to sell the
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you?
Because there was a software problem?
It just didn't -- it wouldn't function for me.
Okay.
So I replaced it.
of Apple.
How old was the phone?

I went to Samsung.
I got out
I had too many problems with Apple.
How old --
Apple wouldn't fix it.
Apple wouldn't do this.
They were harassing me on every -- I called customer
service about it, and they had harassed me, and I had to
10
report that, so I said the hell with it.
11
Radio Shack, and under Sprint's program they would pay your
12
old phone off if you're on a contract.
13
have a Samsung.
14
15
So I went to
So I went and now I
How old was the phone at the time that you tried
to sell it through eBay?
16
A couple months old.
17
Okay.
18
Five months old I think.
19
Was it under any warranty program with Apple
I had a warranty through Verizon, but I had to
20
21
22
or --
cut them out.
23
I don't follow you.
24
I had to get off of Verizon.
25
Okay.
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So the phone wasn't fixable; you tried to
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sell it; you got scammed on the PayPal?
Yeah.
And eBay basically ruled against you?
Yeah, I can't even access eBay.
I can't buy
anything on eBay anymore.
Okay.
I'm hacked, every -- all my online accounts.
Okay.
Banking, bank accounts, PayPal, eBay, PACER.
10
filed complaints with the FBI, the Pennsylvania Attorney
11
General's Office, everybody.
12
When did this happen?
13
What happen?
14
The phone, the attempt to sell the phone.
15
I think January.
16
Of this year?
17
Yes, '16.
18
Did you file a complaint with the Attorney
19
I think January.
General's Office or --
20
Oh.
21
About this situation?
22
I file complaints with them all the time.
23
Okay.
24
Like I say, I am the amicus for Kathleen Kane in
25
Superior Court Case 1164 EDA 2016.
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I filed an amicus brief
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May 3rd, so I'm a party to the case now.
everything to me.
They have to file
Okay.
Service me everything.
And I understand, you know, that process to some
extent, but what does it have to do with this?
it has relevance, I'm all ears.
8
9
A
the NSA.
Okay.
I mean, if
I just don't know.
In 1998 I had a meeting with an agent from
I was complaining again about things, and he told
10
me, he said, listen, Stan.
11
it's the good old boys.
He goes it's not us.
He said
This was in 1998.
12
Now, when Kathleen Kane started in the press,
13
she's been saying that the good old boys are behind her
14
problems.
15
stated for the record what the NSA agent told me about the
16
good old boys and how it relates to what she was saying.
So November 12th I wrote her a letter, and I
17
Uh-huh.
Okay.
18
She replied back the next day, said she'd keep my
19
information on file.
Ever since then from November till a
20
month or so ago I'd go up there every two weeks and deliver
21
documents to Strawberry Square to the Attorney General's
22
Office.
23
Okay.
24
I finally thought, you know what, I'll put screen
25
Tell me about the screen door locks.
door locks on on my screen doors.
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Uh-huh.
It didn't stop anything.
They'd work.
Are they still there?
I had to replace one or two of them.
Did you do that yourself?
Oh, yeah.
Do they work now?
Yes.
They'd break them.
They wouldn't work.
Well, supposedly.
I mean, one time they
10
didn't work.
11
Okay.
12
Lowe's.
13
For $30 it looks like?
14
Yeah.
15
Yes.
16
That was within two months ago.
17
Okay.
18
19
Where did you buy the replacements?
Is that what's on there?

Okay.
When did you replace them?
Sleepy's foam mattress.
I'm sorry.
Foam
memory mattress.
A
Here's the situation with that.
On the record,
20
I've been suffering from back pain since '87.
21
say '98 I've been going to the doctors on and off for it.
22
Last year I got a handicapped placard, and in the process I
23
used my medical reports regarding my back.
24
handicapped placard, and I got a long-term placard which
25
means it doesn't renew until 2020.
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Since I'd
So I got a
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Okay.
Now, what they were doing is that aside from the
electromagnetic weapons, people were using some type of
device to put under my seats and under my bed that causes
excruciating pain.
6
7
Now, since '05 I was going up and getting laser

treatments to Leola Family Health Clinic in Leola.
Did you say Leola?
Yes.
10
Thank you.
11
Now, the doctor there, the chiropractor, he's the
12
one that signed off on my handicapped placard.
13
Okay.
14
He verified that if they -- they could be using
15
magnets.
It can throw my back out to cause pain.
16
that's what the Sleepy's is for.
17
All right.
18
Now, whether -- I mean, well, go ahead.
19
Have you actually found magnets?
21
No.
22
All right.
24
25
You ask
the questions.
20
23
So
You're not sure where they are within
the mattress?
A
I'm not sure.
No, I'm not.
No.
I'm not sure
how they do it, but they used to do it to my bicycle seat,
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my car seat, my bed.
Other nights...
3
4
Now, some nights I'm fine in the bed.
And you know when they're doing it based upon
when you have the pain?
Yes, it's the only way I know.
Okay.
What's the nature of your back problem?
Herniated disc, do you have a degenerative condition?
No.
Do you have -- I mean, you're going to a
10
11
12
chiropractor.
A
Is he -- is he treating you for anything?
I was getting laser treatments, but it stopped
being effective.
13
Okay.
14
So now the only treatment really is I'm applying
15
to Medicare.
16
house.
17
medicines.
18
19
I'm trying to get a whirlpool bath put in my
I'm trying to get them to pay for that.
Okay.
And pain
And what's the diagnosis other than -- I
mean, are you -- something other than back pain I presume?
20
I have that in here, I believe.
21
I'm going to get myself some more coffee over
22
there.
23
Water would be good.
24
I assume there's water in that pitcher.
25
Would you like any coffee or water?
If not,
I can go out and get you some.
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Let me see what document I have right here.
MR. REESER:
(Off the record.)
THE WITNESS:
with me.
BY MR. REESER:
And off the record.
No, I didn't bring my medical file
Okay.
If I know what?
If you know the answer to that question.
10
What was the question?
11
The question was what's the medical diagnosis?
12
Oh, it's a medical term.
13
That's fine.
14
15
That's all right.
I mean, if you know.
I can't.
If you don't -- if you don't know,
that's fine as well.

A
I went to -- okay.
January 29th medical -- Med
16
Express Urgent Care issued me pain medications.
17
they issued me pain medications, all for back.
18
they issued me pain medications.
19
March 23rd
May 10th
In 2009 I was receiving pain medicines from
20
Dr. Sullivan at the Abbeyville Family Clinic on Abbeyille
21
Road for back pain, severe.
22
a walker some nights.
It gets severe.
I have to use
23
I think you said you went to Leola Chiropractic?
24
Yeah, Leola Family Health Clinic.
25
Family Health
Clinic.
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2
3
4
That's not a chiropractor.
That's a medical
doctor?
A
No, he's inside there.
It's a -- it's a facility
where they have different doctors.
Okay.
Dr. Newhart, Paul Newhart, he was giving me laser
treatments.
guess it was about laser therapy.
the NFL.
10
I saw an article in the paper in '05 or '06 I

Now they're using it for
But it was effective for a while, and then it
stopped being effective a couple years ago, so I stopped.
11
When did you buy the bed?
12
I bought the bed three months ago.
13
Where did you buy it at?
14
Sleepy's, Manor Shopping Center.
15
Okay.
16
Now, I put the bed on there.
You understand why
17
I put it on there?
Now, if you went and saw the bed, you
18
wouldn't think anything's wrong with it, but I'm putting it
19
on to document just what I'm telling you.
20
Okay.
You still use the mattress?
21
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, because it's a memory foam with
22
a -- it vibrates.
It moves in three different positions,
23
the head, the mid-section, and for my back it's great.
24
Queen size, king size?
25
Full.
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Is that smaller than queen?
Yeah, not by much though.
So if you're not having the back issues --
Perfectly normal.
Then it's perfectly -- okay.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah.
10
Okay.
11
Oh, which ones?
12
How many do you have?
13
How many did I have?
14
And $2,300, is that what you paid for
it?
Laptop computers.
How many are broken?
many's listed on there?
15
There's no number there.
16
Let me see.
17
How
I don't know why those quantities
aren't in there.
18
Yeah.
19
Let me see.
The policy goes -- the policy goes
20
back to '11, so it would have been one, two -- that would
21
be right.
Two.
22
Okay.
23
Two laptops, 400 bucks apiece.
24
right.
25
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That's about
What kind of laptops, what brand?
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Oh, boy.
HP.
What happened to them?
They just sabotage them.
drives and everything.
usually.
6
7
What was the last one?
Compaq.
They fry the hard
They just fry them.
That's what this document is.
Viruses
It's all in there.
So they've crashed as a result of the viruses?
The hard drives have crashed?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Have you looked into replacing the hard drives?
10
It is -- cost, it's not effective.
It's not --
11
it's not worth it because by the time you pay to do that,
12
it's already outdated technology, so you're going to have
13
an old processor.
14
15
sometimes --
16
You know, it just doesn't --
No, I -- I understand.
The economics of it
So what happened, so in August of last year, the
17
last laptop I replaced, I got a one-year service for Geek
18
Squad.
19
The laptops --
20
Fixing -- fixing the one I have.
21
Okay.
22
I've been in there about 20 times.
These aren't -- the ones that the Geek
Squad's fixing, they're not the HP or the Compaq?
23
Oh, no.
24
Okay.
25
That's a Lenovo I have now.
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No.
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The HP and the Compaq, how old were those?
Within a year, a year old.
When did they crash?
Well, the last one crashed August of 2015.
one before that was probably -- let's see.
Maybe 2012.
2013.
8
9
Compaq, '15.
Probably two thousand and -- maybe '13.
or to Allstate about the one that crashed in '13 before -A
No.
11
-- last month?
12
No.
13
it in bulk.
It's too time consuming.
14
litigation.
I'm too busy trying to defend myself and
15
everything else, too busy documenting things I have to
16
document.
18
I do -- no, this is the way I do this.
Okay.
I do
I'm too busy with
The next item you have is cost to repair
computers from hacking.
19
Right.
20
Which -- are you talking about the same
21
Maybe
Did you make any report to your insurance agent
10
17
The
computers?
22
Yeah.
23
The --
24
I went to -- I went to other services after Geek
25
Squad was not performing their service effectively.
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Let me hold you up for a second now.
We talked
about the HP and the Compaq, and then you said you bought a
warranty in August to have a different computer serviced
by --
A Lenovo.
-- the Geek Squad?
Right.
Denovo?
Lenovo.
10
Lenovo?
11
L-e-n-o-v-o.
12
Is that the one that you're making the claim to
13
14
have repaired?
A
I had that serviced, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I had it
15
done by the people on Harrisburg Pike there.
16
moved, right there at The Grille there, near the campus.
17
forget what his name is.
18
Near F&M you mean?
19
Yeah, The Campus Grille.
He had a computer
20
repair shop in there, but he just moved.
21
out to Liberty Place or somewhere.
22
And you paid $400 for that?
23
No.
24
Yeah.
25
Let me see.
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He just
I think he moved
That was -- to the repair?
Cost to repair computers from
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hacking.
I guess that's cumulative over the past four
years.
Okay.
That's probably what that is.

Here's what happened.
A Plus on Columbia
Avenue.
Last year I made a formal
complaint to the Lancaster DA's Office.
the detective.
goes you're going to have to do something for me.
going to have to go get a private firm, analyze your
Okay.
I met with
He goes, well, Stan, he goes, listen.
10
computer and get a report.
11
seen the detective since.
He
You're
I did that, paid for it, never
12
Okay.
13
He never returned my calls.
He never -- I guess
14
I called him out on it.
I guess he thought, you know, I
15
wasn't going to do it, or it was going to come back saying
16
there wasn't a virus in it or it wasn't hacked, but he was
17
wrong, so he flew the coop from me.
18
So the $400 is cumulative --
19
Yes.
20
-- for three different computers?
21
Three or four.
22
And this would be over how many years span?
23
Three or four years.
24
Okay.
25
Do you have the bills for any of those
repairs?
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A lot of them are in here.
I'm sorry?
A lot of them are in here.
Okay.
No.
Why not?
You can see them right now.
Oh, sure.
I'm getting tired.
10
I had a long week, so let's
wrap this up.
11
12
items.
13
14
Could you send me copies of them?
I'm about two-thirds of the way through these
Let's make it another day then for the rest.
I've had enough.
15
Okay.
16
We can reschedule another time.
17
And I take it
I'll get a copy of the transcript?
18
I'll get you a copy of the transcript.
19
Great.
20
I would prefer to keep going.
21
No, I can't.
22
23
24
25
You don't mind breaking, do you?
I'm up since 4 o'clock most
mornings, so this is enough for me.

Q
Can you show me where those receipts are that
we've just talked about?

A
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Let me see.
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Save you and me some time.
Okay.
In the folders that you're looking at right now,
That's $160.
are those copies of your receipts?
5
6
Here's one.
These are the copies of the reports from the
technical people.
Okay.
The Geek Squad was a one-time fee.
A Plus.
Okay.
Here's A Plus.
10
receipt.
11
Avenue.
12
service, the Geek Squad.
13
computer.
14
them where I got them.
Let's see.
Here's
Now I got to find the
This is what they wrote.

Okay.
Okay.
That's on Columbia
Here's my receipt for the tech
Here's my receipt for the actual
Can I have those receipts back?
I want to put
I don't want the stuff mixed up.
15
How can I get a copy of those receipts?
16
Just take them right now and get them.
17
Ask them to copy them, you'd be all right with
19
Sure.
20
Do you have other receipts for any of these other
21
items?
22
I have 30 years of receipts.
23
Here, I mean here in this building.
18
24
25
that?
Sure.
Do you have
them with you?

A
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I don't know.
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Could you -- there was another one in there that
I was looking at.
piece of paper.
It was on an 11 -- 8 and a half by 11
Here, that was $160.
Let's see.
Let me go
through there quick and see if I can get the receipts.
Here's a receipt.
they changed my SIM card thinking that would stop the
hacking, but it didn't.
for -- that's just an in-take.
This is a Verizon.
This is a receipt, but it's not

These are the IC3 reports.
10
Let's see if the receipt's in here.
11
they're all the receipts I have.
12
Okay.
13
I believe.
14
What Verizon did was
Geek Squad.
No,
I mean, as far as the computers are
concerned.
15
And then there's no receipts in these documents?
16
Receipts for what?
17
Any of these items that we're talking about.
18
I don't know.
19
Okay.
20
I don't know.
21
I'll make copies of these.
22
I did not peruse all these files for receipts.
23
Would you like -- would you like me to make a
24
25
copy of that for your records?

A
Stan Sponsored
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J. CaterboneMind
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No, I gave it to you.
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Okay.
I'm going to have to trust you.
changing documents on me all the time.
(Off the record.)
I got people
BY MR. REESER:
Okay.
Do you want to take these and copy them and bring
them back?
Or I can mail them back to you.
Sure.
10
Well, aren't we going to continue this?
11
Actually what I have to do is I have to report
12
back to Allstate, and they let me know if they want me to
13
continue it or not.
14
15
A
fine.
Okay.
You can take them then.
Mail them back.
16
Okay.
17
You're going to get educated.
18
19
20
Yeah, that'd be
And you will not -You're going to be
a changed man, trust me.

Q
You will not do the continuation, assuming we
have one, in the courthouse?
21
Why?
22
Because it's free.
23
Why don't we do it at Allstate's office, Allen's
24
25
office?
Q
Stan Sponsored
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J. CaterboneMind
Under
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Okay.
I'll see if I can arrange that.
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Or we can do it at my house.
1250 Freemont Street.
It's nice.
It's nice there.
You can come to

It's fixed up.
I have no problem with that.
All right.
I had enough of that courthouse.
Okay.
How long did this last?
Roughly an hour.
So it's about 20 after 10:00 roughly.
I don't know what time we
started.
10
That's pretty good.
11
So you want to adjourn for the day?
12
Yeah.
13
MR. REESER:
14
(The examination under oath was adjourned at
15
Okay.
Very good.
10:19 a.m.)
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18
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20
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1
COUNTY OF DAUPHIN
2
3
4
: SS
COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
I, Diane F. Foltz, a Notary Public, authorized to
administer oaths within and for the Commonwealth of
Pennsylvania, do hereby certify that the foregoing is the
testimony of Stanley J. Caterbone.
8
9
I further certify that before the taking of said

statement, the witness was duly sworn; that the questions
10
and answers were taken down stenographically by the said
11
Reporter-Notary Public, and afterwards reduced to
12
typewriting under the direction of the said Reporter.
13
14
15
I further certify the said statement was taken at the

time and place specified in the caption sheet hereof.
I further certify I am not a relative or employee or
16
attorney or counsel to any of the parties, or a relative or
17
employee of such attorney or counsel, or financially
18
interested directly or indirectly in this action.
19
I further certify that the said statement
20
constitutes a true record of the testimony given by the
21
said witness.
22
23
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand

this 13th day of June, 2016.
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J. CaterboneMind
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_______________________
Diane F. Foltz, RMR
Notary Public
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Stan J. Caterbone
Freedom From Covert Harassment & Surveillance,

1250 Fremont Street

Lancaster, PA 17603
Richmond City Council

May 19, 2015
Richmond City Council Public Hearing of May 19, 2015
Passing a City Resolution 5-2 to Ban Spaced-Based

Weapons in Support of the Many Targeted Individuals
Suffering Symptoms of the City
Transcribed for Advanced Media Group, Originally published:
May 19, 2015
Richmond, California City Council hears from victims and advocates and votes in support of the Space
Preservation Act and the Space Preservation Treaty to permanently ban spaced-based weapons.
Jovanka Beckles Council Member Introduced This Resolution
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RICHMOND CITY COUNCIL BANS SPACED-BASED WEAPONS

COUNCIL MEETING HELD MAY 19, 2015
Mayor:
One is to adopt a resolution in support of the Space Preservation Act and the Spaced-Based
Treaty to permanently ban Space-based weapons. And we have 15 speakers for this item.
Council Member Beckles, would you like to introduce this?
Beckles : I would. You know I think what I would like to do is just kind of rehash the statement of this
issue for those that dont have the agenda in front of them. The city of Richmond is a welcoming and safe
area for all of our residents. We have led the way in so many initiatives that protect and provide the rights
for all of our residents to feel safe. And so its imperative that Richmond adopt this resolution in order to
stand in solidarity with residents who claim to be under assault with spaced-based weapons that should be
outlawed by the Space Preservation Act.
Now, the thing about this is that were not trying something new here. This is in support of what is already
there at the federal level. So we say as a council we support this treaty thats already in affect and we also
support our residents who are feeling attacked by certain kinds of weapons. And so the purpose of this
resolution is to show support for our residents that identify themselves as targeted individuals by
supporting the Space Preservation Act thats been passed by Congress and the Space Preservation Treaty
to permanently ban spaced-based weapons.
Now, many targeted individuals believe they have been personally attacked by weaponry that should be
outlawed by the Space Preservation Act. Some years ago one of the residents who is going to talk now, I
met with her. I met with many of them, to talk about this issue. Ive also spoken with our police
department. The representative from the department was Captain Gagan to figure out how law
enforcement can support these individuals, first of all, by at least listening and not assuming, and actually
just taking reports of incidences that are reported. And the police department was open to that, and is
open to that, and are willing to work with our residents in helping them to feel safe. Because its important
that we all feel safe living in our city. And in our city we have put forth our best effort to listen and respect
the voices and wisdom and experiences of our residents.
And so I dont intend to ignore it and Im hoping that my colleagues on this (unclear word) wont ignore,
but support those who suspect they have been exposed to these types of inhumane attacks with the intent
to cause them great emotional and bodily harm. And Im encouraged by these residents, these citizens of
Richmond, who stood up to protect these other residents here. Id like to encourage other officials at the
local, state and national level to explore methods to expand support to all residents. And as many as
you can see those of us with an agenda in front of us, and those who dont have an agenda in front of
you, who may be watching, or the livecast on the web, is that there is no financial impact to this. This is
not going to cost anything and its not going to hurt anyone to pass it. But it certainly would continue to
cause emotional distress to those who are being targeted if we dont pass this. And I urge you to support
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all of our residents in the city.
Mayor: Do we have questions from council members? Okay, Vice Mayor.
V Mayor: Just real quickly. You mentioned that this was passed by Congress. Can you tell me when that
happened because Im trying to look it up now and I thought that was just introduced in 2001 and never
was
Beckles: Actually, Ms Anderson can probably answer that question. When was it passed at the federal
level, Ms Anderson?
Anderson:
9/10/2002. Space Preservation Act, former Congressman Dennis Cosenich had introduced
this bill.
Vice Mayor: But was that
Mayor:
Were sort of getting out of our process here. I think that (word unclear) do you have other
questions?
Vice Mayor: Well, Im looking at the sheet that youre looking at. It looks like thats when the Burkley
City Council passed a resolution, not when Congress passed the law. Im looking on line at the House
website. And I know that theres, I understand that theres been multiple versions of this so I dont know if
its been passed or not. But from what it looks like here, it doesnt look like that version was passed by
Congress, so I dont know if it was. But I understand the Burkley City Council passed it on 9/10 of 2002.
Mayor: Other questions from the council?
Mayor:
So I had a couple of questions. Im looking at the resolution and it talks about the Space
Preservation Act. Can you tell me what act that was? Theres never been a Space Preservation Act passed,
right?
Beckles: It wasnt passed. It was brought forward by the Representative, the Congressman at the time.
Because there were some, you know how it goes in Washington, theres just a lot of power play. So it
never gotbut it did get passed in 2002 in Burkley. So were making ours similar to the one that was
passed in Burkley.
Mayor: Well it doesnt say anything about Burkley here. All it says is the Space Preservation Act. Are you
talking about the resolution Burkley passed or are you talking about one of the two resolutions that
Representative Cosenich introduced in 2001 and 2002?
Beckles: Well because that one didnt pass were just making reference that it was brought forward by
Dennis Cosenich, and of course politics being the way they are, it did not pass. So this is, Im making
reference to and using the Burkley model as an example of ours.
Mayor: Which one of the Cosenich resolutions did the Burkley model refer to?
Anderson: HR3616. House Resolution 3616.
Mayor: I didnt hear you, what?
Anderson: House Resolution 3616.
Mayor: 3615.
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Anderson: 3616. 1. 6.
Mayor: The research I did on this, that resolution was substantially different than HR2977.
Anderson: Yes sir.
Mayor:
And significantly it omitted any references to chem trails, particle beams, electromagnetic
radiation, plasmas, extremely low frequency or ultra-high frequency energy radiation and mind control
technology. So, the question I have is, it seemed to me, it was your intent to include all these in it, right?
So if you go with HR3616 and we approve this, it will not include any of these things I named. Was that
your intent?
Beckles: That was not my intent. My intent, and working with staff, of course, it helped put this together,
because we know that we get help with our staff. The intention was to include all of the things that people
are feeling, yeah, that people are feeling the pressures of and feeling the attacks of, and so I think thatI
dont know how much of this issue that Burkley had in theirs. But I think that to include these, and this is
the resolution saying we support this treaty, this act. Then Id like to have it in there. Because again, to
me its important that we defend, that we support and that we protect our residents. And so if these are
the things that residents are saying theyre feeling, then it should be in there.
Mayor: Well, all Burkley did, and Im looking at the Burkley resolution, and it just says, It is the will of
the council and the city of Burkley that the US Senate and House of Representatives enact, and the US
President sign and enforce the Space Preservation Act. But Im confused because there were actually two
Space Preservation Acts introduced and I think if were going to do this right, we need to define which one
were going to support. Because theyre different.
Beckles: Youre absolutely right. And I want the best one to move forward as well, and Im sure that the
residents want the best one and so.
Mayor: Which one is the best one?
Anderson: HR2977.
Mayor: So that would be HR2977.
Anderson: Yes.
Beckles: Which is the one that includes
Anderson: Everything.
Mayor: Ok, so, with that in mind, I dont have any more council people... oh I do too. Council Member
yeah, Ive got a bunch; Council Member Martinez and Council Member McLaughlin.
Martinez: Yes, I wanted to change the language to say that we endorse the intent of the act since the
act is not actually in place.
Mayor: The intent of which act?
Martinez: The intent of the second act.
Mayor: The second one is HR3616.
Beckles: Are you talking about HR2977 which includes all that, right? Which includes the chem trails. Is
that right?
Mayor: Thats my understanding of it.
Beckles: Is that right, Council Member Martinez?
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Martinez: Is that the revision? Right.
Mayor: Council Member McLaughlin.
McLaughlin: Actually I did some research on this too. Apparently Representative Cosenich didnt read
fully the first resolution that was brought forward in his name. He brought it forward based on some
recommendations. And when he realized it was drawn out to the level that it was, he pulled it. And he
brought forward the second one, which is 3616, which I think is more general.
Many of us remember, just to share some input going back, many of us remember in the 80s, Ronal
Reagan brought forth the Strategic Defense Initiative, which was later dubbed Star Wars, you know, thats
where this all came from. Basically, it was to put weapons technology into space as a global shield, as a
supposed defense against China and the Soviet Union. It was later seen as infeasible. And many others..
many people saw this as the idea to put weapons in spacewas insane. And I happen to think it was a
crazy idea, as did the population at large.
Then the Clinton administration in 1993 morphed it into the Ballistic Missile Defense. Later in 2002, which
is currently now the Missile Defense Agency. But also, along the way, in 2002 Dennis Cosenich introduced
this bill, and its the second one that he fully introduced, 3616, which basically called for a ban on spacedbased weapons. And then it was, I think it was just introduced, a co-sponsor was Representative Barbara
Lee, and at a certain point, this Space Preservation Act that was just introduced was brought to the UN
and the Space Preservation Treaty was linked with it. And actually the UN had previously addressedset
upestablished, I guess the basis for this treaty by saying they wanted a permanent ban on spaced-based
weapons that passed in the United Nations that passed 156 to 0. Then Burkley supported the 2002 the
Space Preservation Act and I believe also, the Space Preservation Treaty.
So thats what Council Member Beckles is referring to in terms of the resolution that shes brought
forward. I dont know how anyone can not support not having weapons in space when it has been
supported by the UN and also been supported, clearly stated by many experts that its infeasible this
original Ronald Reagan plan to dub this Star Wars.
I think the resolution is fine as it is. It basically says that the residentsthe well-being of our residents is
of importance to us and it also, it doesnt state pro or con in terms of what individuals are saying. But it
just refers to the fact that our residents deserve to be protected. And in general it states that spacedbased weapons are something that the city of Richmond does not support. (applause)
Mayor: Okay, so would you call the public speakers?
Anderson:
Speakers are Amy Anderson, Jesse Beltrand, Dr. John Hall, Dr. Edward Spencer, Ben
Colonson, Lisa Becker and Derrick Robinson.

Beckles: Amy Lee Anderson.
Anderson:
Yes
Mayor: Could you come over here to the podium to speak, please?
Anderson: Good evening Council Members, Council Beckles. I really want to thank you for not deviating
your plan because I went on your Facebook and I saw why you came in office and you never deviated your
plan. You said that you wanted to first put the community first and from you doing that, I want to thank
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you first. And secondly, as a psychologist, a child psychologist, I want to thank you for putting up with
some of those pains I have suffered along this way. But I am here in happiness, in a moment of greatness.
I have a perfect city. Nowhere in the United States, no targeted individual can get this kind of support
that I have gotten. We just needed just one person, one city. And because of that, you all are our heroes,
and we want to thank you. And I can go on and say much much.
But we are dying within because the technology is so sophisticated. Its hard for someone who has no
experience to fathom it. It is so sophisticated. So what we are saying to you all is please let us help you
understand enough, as someone outside looking in to our lives. Because were in pain, we are tortured
and we are humiliated every day in our lives because our lives have taken on a path. We dont even know
how or why we have this type of people on this planet who would harm in this type of way. And I just want
to thank you all. And you, Mayor, for you being in the cityworking in the service. Being in the service. For
others to do this, I know that should sadden you. (applause)
Jesse Beltrand: Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor and City Council Members. My name is Jesse Beltrand.
Im the president of the International Center Against the Use of Covert Technologies. Our organization was
formed in 2010 in Sacramento California for the purpose to bring awareness to the general public and
legal systems around the world about serious human rights abuses with regards to the utilization of
remote influencing technologies. My colleagues and co-speakers today, hopefully well get John Hall, who
was the author of Guinea Pigs, Technologies of Control, which have been sent to each of you and signed. I
also have Dr. Edward Spencer, whos a Neurologist from the Yale School of Medicine and Ben Colonson who
is a PHD in psychology, and therapist, and co-author of a book about PTSD. I myself am a retired
Sacramento City Fire Paramedic and a recent graduate of HMI and do provide therapy to victims.
In 2010 I met Dr. Hall and when meeting him I discovered this phenomenon and asked, Why isnt
anything being done about this? He said its because of the symptomology. If everyone went to traditional
medicine and complained about what they were experiencing, they would be railroaded into the mental
health institutions. The fact of the matter is, this is affecting all demographics of society: the poor, the
rich, the elite. I see victims on a monthly basis and hear from hundreds of people every week. I currently
have over 23,000 correspondences from victims not only within, here in the United States, but around the
world.
What we have discovered is that there are hot pockets within the United States where there are victims
that are being exposed to these types of technologies. And as our speakers continue to speak they will
explain to you how that has developed. Currently the hot spots are New York, Florida, Chicago, Texas, and
California. Unfortunately, in California, the East Bay has the highest amount of victims that we have
collected in our database, within our study within our organization. This is why we are currently here
today.
Beckles: Your time has expired Sir.
Beltrand: Okay, thank you.
Beckles: Dr. John Hall. Dr. John Hall.
Beltrand: Dr. Hall is unable to be reached so were going to have Dr. Spencer here.
Spencer:
Mr. Mayor, City Council, thank you. Thank you for attacking this very difficult problem. And
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there are a lot of people around the world, especially in Europe, where I attended a counsel just recently,
in November, who thank you. Im a retired neurologist. I attended Stanford University, Yale University and
a residency at the University of California in San Francisco.
Ive studied this sort of problem for a period of time. And its been a mystery to me why medicine in
general does not approach this and study the multitude of documents that are out there. But this is the
case. And I wont answer this for you, because this is an ongoing study, ongoing problem. This is really
intense technology. Essentially what might be described as EEG heterodyning. The entire electrical activity
of the human brain can be captured in this super computer and certainly processed and then put back into
someone else. Imits science fiction. But unfortunately, its not science fiction. So naturally this is
difficult. So the technology is incredible. But basically this is a moral problem. Ethical problem. This is a
violation of the golden rule, any ethics, anything thats decent. And this is a major thing to consider. Its
also a violation of our constitutional rights. So thats an important thing to keep in mind.
To bring it back down to Richmond, I know there are a lot of targeted individuals here, and the police
encounter them. And cant understand this and help them. The medical community is hobbled by not
having a differential diagnosis. And many of the psychiatric disorders, they should say rule out
psychotronic disorders, but they dont. So they cant face it at all. Thank you.
Beckles: Ben Colonson
Colonson: I thank you all. Two minutes. Okay, lets go. Thank you all for your endurance. I see you listen
to a lot of humans. Im gonna talk really fast with two minutes to go. I am a psychologist. I have
evaluated many targeted individuals who have previously been diagnosed as delusional and psychotic and
my job is to deconstruct those diagnoses. Because of the methods of my colleagues that can actually
detect advanced nano-technology present in their bodies both through frequency emissions and
lymphaticbasicallylike when you fire a bullet theres a trajectory and the police can determine the
trajectory. There are chemical tests to do that. I was just gonna, very quickly, since its two minutes, this
is this months issue of Smithsonian Magazine that says, The Future is Here: Brain to Brain
Communication is Real. Targeted Individuals report synthetic telepathy, voices in their skull, people
putting thoughts in their head, things that up until now weve been told are complete delusion and lock
em up. But you know, the capabilities exist.
This is the National Nanotech Initiative. The last 15 years budgets of a billion and a half dollars just by the
federal governments non-black budgets. We dont know what they spend on the black budgets. Doing
experimental programs showing how nano sensors in people can give us much more data about humanity.
These technologies can be used for great good but they have apparently also been used for tremendous
evil in non-consensual human experimentation. There is great documentation on this.
I do think its a little unfortunate, that confusion about the Space Preservation Act. There arethe systems
SCADAS, theyre called. The acronym stands for Supervisory Control And Data Systems Systems. They
include a component of satellite communication from a central command post as well as components
inside the human beings, or targeted individuals. So although there is a component of these weapons
systems, and they are clearly weapons systems by the major nations on earth, theres an arms race on for
the mind at this time. Control of the human mind. The Human Brain Initiative is part of it. If I only have
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two minutes I have to stop there. I hope you will listen to these people. They are suffering greatly as nonconsensual experimentees.
Beckles: A question, really quick, to the speaker. Could you repeat the names of those two references
that you gave, the magazines? Can you give me the names of those again, please?
Colonson: The first one, the current issue of the Smithsonian Magazine. A main stream magazine, which
in this months issue, says communicating brain to brain. And this is merely what they are releasing
publicly. The majority of the most advanced weapons systems are classified and we dont know the full
capabilities. This is just the supplemental to the presidents budget, this years Nanotechnology Initiative.
And what I didnt get to say in my two minutes is the National Registry of Environmental Professionals,
which certifies people to do all kinds of environmental quality testing, has just certified SCADAS,
Supervisory Control And Data Administration Systems, as something that needs to be studied for its
environmental impact on the environment in general. And I am part of the HSCADAS task force, how
these SCADAS systems are impacting human beings. And there are thousands of reports from targeted
individuals that crimes are being committed against them. And my intention in coming here tonight was to
support their claims so that law enforcement, with as much
Mayor: I think she asked you the names of the magazinesso
Beckles: Thank you very much. Lisa Becker.
Becker: Hi. Good evening. My name is Lisa Becker and I came here from Racine, Wisconsin. I have been
a victim of this technology for 14 years. I have been tortured for 14 years. My justice department has
failed me. My executive branch has failed me. My senators have failed me. My congressmen have failed
me. You are the only people in this country who have had the courage to even put this on the agenda.
Thats why I flew all this way to thank you, and to address you. This is torture. And it is enslavement. And
any one of these people can tell you the same thing. We have suffered desperately. And Im sorry if Im
emotional. But Im very tired. But if you wont save us, save yourselves. Because I promise you, this will
come back to every one of you. Every one of us in this country are going to be tapped into these computer
systems and you are gonna see what this feels like. Do something now while you still can. Thank you.
Council Member: I have a question. Could you be more specific in terms of how you feel that youve
beenthe injustice.
Becker: You mean in terms of the justice department failing me?
Council Member: Well in terms of your being a victim.
Becker: You mean in what Im feeling?
Council Member: Yeah, explain a little bit to me how you perceive yourself as being.
Becker:
Sure, well I have actual photographs of burns on my body. When I went to my doctor, the
response was, Well how do I know you didnt do that to yourself? How do you address that? Ive passed
two psychological evaluations. Not one but two. The one physician said, Youre sound as a bell. I have no
idea whats going on with you. When I go to sleep, when I go to try to sleep, I feel like Im being lit up
like a Christmas tree. I feel like every cell in my body just bouncing out of my body. I cant even describe
it. I get electric shock up my rectum. I get electric shock up my nose. Ive woken up with burns on the
end of my tongue. Ive had burns on the palms of both my hands. I vibrate. I vibrate. I can barely hold a
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piece of paper without quivering. Does that answer your question?
Council Member: Im trying to find out whats the source.
Becker:
The source are these exotic weapons. They talk about, in 2977, they talk about the space
weapons, spaced-based weapons. Basically in that document they talk about exotic weapons. Thats what
were talking about. And the fact of the matter is they did complete that global surveillance network. My
cousin worked for the defense department. She worked on the global mapping of that system. And when I
told her what I was going through, all she could say was, Youre on your own. Well, I figured that out. I
figured that out. If you would please, I urge you to pass this. I realize you cant enforce it, but if you
would pass it, it might give other communities the courage to do the same thing and show our defense
department we are not the enemy. We are not to be attacked. We are not terrorists. Most of us are
defenseless women.
Mayor: Okay, thank you.
Becker: Thank you.
Beckles:
Our next speaker is Derrick Robinson, followed by Laquisha Baker, Dolores Hall, Kim, Alex,
Elizabeth Adams, Robert Swegan. Please come forward. Derrick Robinson.

Robinson: Good evening everyone. Im Derrick Robinson. In regards to the Space Preservation Act that
is before you, many of us have travelled here to say thanks very much for listening and responding to so
many that have come to you over the past couple of years. This is a momentous occasion for our
organization and for humanity. You are one of the very few governing authorities that has considered the
danger of psychotonic technologies. Research in this area has been ongoing since the 50s by government
agencies, corporations, criminal elements, and religious cults, etc. But, only since the arrival of the
internet, has this holocaust been made known to thousands of people who have found that they are
victims of psychotonic technologies. And that they have been sereptisciously victimized by them. And as
the devices proliferate and the public becomes more aware of these covert activities, legislation on a local
and national level will be needed to address the concerns with regard to a vulnerable society. Your
resolution today would be a giant step forward in ensuring the health, safety and well-being for all people.
Thank you.
Beckles: Laquisha Baker
Baker:
Hello to all the legislators, and city hall, Javanka, my girl Amy over there. I have been a
Richmond resident 40 plus years. Ive seen two of my friends try and fight this fight. But their minds are
gone and theres no coming back. My mother was a Black Panther. They killed her. She was only 58 years
old. And Im just happy at this moment that somebody in our town, our city, has opened the doors for
many people who couldnt make it, didnt make it, and were survivors of it. And I just want to say thank
you.
Beckles: Dolores Hall.
Hall: I did not know you were going to call me to speak. But I will share. I head up the Los Angeles
Freedom from Covert Harassment Group. Its a support group. And I have about 300 people that is in that
group. And I get over 400 emails on a weekly basis of people asking me to help them, begging me, please
help. No one will listen to me. I am 65 years old and as I walk here, up to this podium, Im in so much
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pain. I have burns all over my body. Theymy doctor I had treated with for 16 years, my legs swelled up
from the electric magnetic frequencies hitting me on my legshe told me to go to the hospital. And when I
went to the hospital they were supposed to put an IV in me. They sent me to the mental ward because
they said I did this to myself. I would never hurt me. I have been a victim since 2007. You cant see this
horrific electric hitting you. Electric is invisible. You take a remote control to turn your tv, turn on your
television. It hurts so bad. I want to thank you for opening your minds and your time today. I am a retired
legal investigator. I have asked all my friends, I have very prominent friends, to help me. They cant do
anything about this. It is way, way over our heads. They say its the shadow government. It is people that
cannot be touched. Please help us.
Beckles: Kim, next speaker.
Buckner: Hello, my name is Kimberly Buckner and I have been a targeted individual for a very long time.
The things that Ive experienced due to being targeted, they have been unreal. However, I can attest that
they are very real indeed. My life has been destroyed in every possible way and every day has been a
struggle for me. I am very grateful to be before you today due to Amy Andersons due diligence and to
everyone else involved. I thank you council members for giving us targeted individuals a chance to speak
and to be heard. And I pray that these atrocities will soon be brought to an end. But we need your help.
Thank you.
Beckles: Alex
Rafter: Good evening, my name is Alec Rafter. I am an NYU graduate and have spent much of my time
working in a financial holding company in San Francisco. I have been a targeted individual for eight years
six months. Im from Lafayette, California, which is in this county. I am here to support and corroborate
what these other speakers are trying to convey. This technology exists and is being used on a mass scale.
It is torturous, brutal and inhumane. It happens everywhere I go. People dont understand the capabilities
of this technology. The person I came with here tonight was being shocked and stabbed in this very room
with a directed energy weapon while waiting to speak with the council. My ears are getting frequency
tinnitus while I was sitting here waiting for you as well as technology called voice to skull Dr. Alan Frey.
Like I said, this happens everywhere I go in Northern and Southern California. Ive been tortured all day,
all night, minute after minute, year after year after year. We need your help and support to stop this, to
save us, and to prevent this from happening to others. Please support banning these so called spacedbased weapons. Thank you very much.
Beckles: Robert Swegan
Swegan: Good evening. My name is Robert Swegan. I live in Modesto California. Im here tonight after
being targeted for 12 years with direct energy weapons, voice to skull. I wake up in the middle of the
night in excruciating pain. Theres nobody I can call. Theres nobody to help me. You know, sometimes I
have suicidal idealization because theres no one to help. You know, Ive been diagnosed schizophrenic,
delusional, at 53 and 57 years old. Im a graduate of junior college with a degree in counseling and human
service. I commend you people for what youre doing here. I want toIm here to support my friends. And
I know this has been very difficult for me and my family. My familyI have 4 children. One is in prison
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right now. I suspect he was here for about 45 minutes. And others will not even talk to me. My familys
been fragmented. I dont tell anybody whats happening to me anymore. Its a dark secret with me. I
cannot explain to people whats happening. The police in Modesto are at least talking to me now. Theyre
not taking me down to the mental health facility. I thank you very much for listening to me.
Beckles: Marilyn Languist
Languist:
Good evening Mayor and Council Members. Marilyn Languist, Richmond resident. I want to
thank Ms Anderson for bringing this topic forward and for bringing so many speakers. I urge you to adopt
this resolution. As has been said, the original Space Preservation Act was originally introduced by
Congressman Cosenich, co-sponsored by Congresswoman Barbara Lee and Congressman Pete Stark of the
Bay Area. And this concept was also voted on and supported unanimously by the United Nations to
prohibit weaponization of space and spaced-based weapons. These are clearly not good for anyone on
earth and not good for anyone in Richmond. You have to be aware that there are a lot of exotic weapons
research programs going on. Some of them covert, some of them not covert. A former Richmond resident
sent me a lot of emails last year about a public comment period for allowing US military testing of directed
energy weapons in the Olympic peninsula in the state of Washington, which is of great concern. In terms
of the types of weapons that are affecting these individuals, before you judge the targeted individuals, I
would suggest that you listen to them, take the time to really listen deeply to their experience. Try to put
yourself in their shoes for a moment. If you can believe them, then please do what you can to support
them. If youre not sure, then I urge you to take the precautionary principle, when in doubt error on the
side of extra protection for those who are vulnerable. So please do adopt this resolution. Thank you.
Beckles: Sylvia Gray White
White: Good evening. My name is Sylvia Gray White, a very long time Richmond resident. Tonight Im so
thankful and happy that our city is looking up, waking up and standing up. Approval of this agenda item
will make an impact on the whole world and will help us to restore our mother earth and our health. The
heavy metal toxins falling down on us daily from the chem trails are done by our military without our
approval and knowledge. Lead is one of the many chemicals in the chem trails even though our
government banned it decades ago. Banned it from paint, toys, even bullets, and other manufacturing
processes. This toxin has really negatively impacted my life. Lead is very toxic and there are no safe
levels. It displaces the calcium in your bones among many other illnesses, particularly with children. The
level of lead in my body has drastically increased in the past 3 years. Ive gotta get the lead out. We need
to stop this constant daily abuse of our universal rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If you
cant feel good, you cant live good. I am not the only one breathing this pollution. If you breathe, youre
breathing it too. We have rights. Stand up for them! Now in order to stand Ive got to use a cane. But I
still can stand and will stand up for whats right.
Beckles: Our last speaker is Elizabeth Adams.
Adams: First and foremost Id like to pass this cell phone around. This is what electronic burns look like.
This is my 6 year old grand-daughter who has been targeted since birth. So can I just walk around and
show this to you?
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Mayor: Give it to the clerk.
Adams: This was taken less than 30 days ago at Eden hospital. Thats when you hear of the victim speak
of being electronically burned. That is my 6 year old grand-daughter. I am 59 years old. I have 6
grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren. I first and foremost want to say that I thank God for every one
of you. And I mean literally from the bottom of my heart. I thank him for each one of you and I thank him
for the blessings that hes gonna bring your way just for addressing these issues. These issues are beyond
the average eye. The average eye cant even see it. So its not even worth even talking about in that
sense. I have sent each and every one of you information. Everything that I sent you is just what you
need to know. But theres one more thing left:
your local fusion center. You need to do some deep
research into your local fusion center. Just look it up on line. That is where you will find information, ill
activities of some sort, that is going on withinIm not going to say city government because I cant
pinpoint it. But you need to look into your local fusion center. Secondly, mental health of children(timer
beeping).May I finish just two minutes please?
Mayor: No, I think we need to give everybody the same amount of time. Thank you.
Adams: Okay, no problem.
Beckles: That was the last speaker.
Mayor: (lady asked to speak) Maam, you know, if you didnt sign up you cant speak. Okay, I have Vice
Mayor Meyers.
Vice Mayor:
I was just gonna briefly say that the weaponization of space as the history that was so
eloquently described by Council Member McLaughlin is something that I think is extremely immoral and we
should not be, as a nation, engaging in and so Im gonna support this resolution based on that.
Mayor: Do we have any other speakers? Okay, hearing none, do we have a motion?
Beckles: I can make a motion. I share that we adopt the resolution thats put before us.
Mayor: Motion of second?
Beckles: Pinplay has something
Mayor: Oh, Councilman Pinplay
Pinplay:
I just want to address for a second this whole idea about weaponization of space and there
seems to be this assumption that just because Ronald Reagan supported Star Wars, its automatically
become some unmitigated evil. The context in which it was considered a problem was simply because
there was this perception that Star Wars or any kind of strategic defense initiative could not be made
foolproof. And it could not be made foolproof because the opponent, particularly a very well-armed
opponent like the Soviet Union could launch like tens of thousands of dummy missiles at any one point
and so it would be almost impossible to intercept all of them and to distinguish the nuclear missiles from
the dummy missiles. And the understanding was that it would be that there could be a problem created
because based on the overestimation of the effectiveness of Star Wars, namely that America might think
that it was too effective and therefore, go for a first strike and knock out all the Soviet weapons. Or, on
the other hand, the Soviets might feel it was too effective and go for a preemptive strike beforehand. And
it was only in that specific cold war context that Star Wars was considered a horrible idea. Actually, Star
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Wars is not a particularly bad idea, the whole idea is that you can knock out someones weapons before
they enter your air space, in fact, long before they enter your air space. And this, for example, was
practiced more than 20 years ago, in the Gulf War, when the Patriot system modification of this was used
when the Patriot system knocked out some of the Iraqi missiles that were launched at Israel. And it is not
just a perfectly valid system, it is actually a particularly useful system, in the time that we have now
where there are nations that are not quite as well armed as the Soviet Union used to be in the 1980s.
Which may not have the capability to launch tremendous numbers of missiles at any one time. And, in
fact, this is a fairly useful system to have. And so this automatic knee jerk reaction that because Reagan
supported Star Wars and at the time it was considered a bad idea and so for that purpose it is considered
a bad idea forever, I just think this is a wrong understanding of the system. And I just wanted to mention
that.
Mayor: So we have Council Member McLaughlin next.
McLaughlin: So, I justthe reason I was interrupting because I dont think we should get into it. Thats
kind of way off base. I was just giving the history of this in general. I will say that there were some of us
in the 80s that were talking about a nuclear freeze like to stop the arms war rather than weapons in
space. You know, I think space should be for exploration and good things to learn, scientifically. Not for a
weapons trace.
Mayor: Wait, no, were not having anything from the audience. Council Member Martinez.
Martinez: Yes, just last week on 60 Minutes there was a special on the reintroduction to the arms war,
with people trying to develop missiles to take out communication satellites. But any kind of war effort is
wrong. And we need to do whatever we can to stop all war efforts. Now when I was in university in the
1980s for humanities class, I did a paper on a science fiction novel. What I actually did was, I took all of
the predictions in this science fiction novel, and then I went to magazines and newspapers, and I was
surprised to find that every single prediction in this science fiction novel, that was written 20 years earlier,
had already come true. And they were happening there, then, in 1980. So its easy for me to see that
things which are wrong can happen because we have the wrong mindset. We have the mindset which is a
war mindset and this proposition that was put forth by Cosenich was to change our attitudes towards one
of seeking peace, and thats why Im endorsing it.
Mayor: Okay, Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor: Well, I want to say that I do think this debate is, it is on topic, because the debate on Star
Wars is sort of, was part of what initiated this. And what I would say, and its been said, that any sort of
in my viewthe idea that we dont have enough tools to kill each other here on earth and so that we need
to start doing it in space, that just is simply immoral. And you know, it may be that some wars are
unavoidable. That may be true. But whatever we can do to get our country to move away from that mind
set and move away from utilizing new methods of war, we should support. And so thats why I support this
resolution.
Mayor: Okay, if theres nobody else, lets vote. Wait. Council Member Pinplay.
Pinplay: So the motion before us, does that include things like chem trails and stuff, or no?
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Mayor: Well, let me, I think hes bringing up a good point, because, Im really confused. I think that the
resolution itself is very simple. It simply says, the city of Richmond thereby supports the Space
Preservation Act and companion Space Preservation Treaty to ensure that individuals will not be targets of
spaced-based weapons. So I see that. All the testimony Ive heard tonight is about targeted individuals.
And so, I mean, Im confused. Is this about spaced-based weapons or is it about targeted individuals? And
if individuals are targeted, whos targeting them and why? I just dont understand it.
Beckles: Its simple enough. Its saying that, on the thereforeas you read, we are supporting this Space
Preservation Act and companion Space Preservation Treaty and the reason were doing this is that
individuals will not be targets of spaced-based weapons, which is what theyre saying. All this stuff is high
technology, itsand sothats what were adopting here. And you know, whether you believe it or not, one
thing that was very clear, and Ive met with folks a lot around this issue, and some of them Im just
hearing tonight. And even the ones I heard tonight, just out of compassion for folks that are saying help
us, and us supporting this, by adopting this resolution, I think it sends out a message that, you know, we
sympathize with you, we support you, and the very least we can do is just pass this resolution to make
sure that you feel the support and love and sympathy that you deserve. Its simple, it reads right there
Mayor. Thats all were trying to pass. Whats there before you. Thats all were trying to pass. Dont
complicate it. Its simple, so vote it yes or no.
Mayor: I sympathize with everyone who is suffering some kind of affliction. But on the other hand, you
know, in 1967, the US adopted, or the President signed the treaty on the principles guarding the activities
of states in the exploration and use of outer space including the moon and other celestial bodies. So the
US government has acted on this, and they have, within that particular treaty, is a ban on using outer
space for military purposes. So, I just dont understand what were talking about. Are we talking about the
weaponization of space? Are we talking about chem trails? Are we talking about individuals who are being
targeted? If so, by whom and why? I mean, you know, Im just a dumb city council person and this is way,
way over my head. And I frankly think that its sort of way out of the purview of what this city council
could be taking up.
Weve got real problems here. Weve got potholed roads, weve got a budget thats out of balance, weve
got crime, weve got greenhouse gases. Weve got all these things to worry about and here Im being
asked to support a resolution that deals with things like chem trails and particle beams and plasmas and
mind control technologies. I just dont know enough about it. If I were an expert Id probably take a side,
but Im not. And so for that reason Im just not gonna support it. Maybe some time Ill learn more and be
more oriented
Beckles: Id like to call the questions.
Mayor: Council Member Bates
Bates: Well, it is confusing. Im gonna support the resolution for the simple reason that weve voted on
lot of dumber ideas than this resolution represents. And again, we know that we dont control the
universe, we dont control Congress. So this is the least of my worries. So, Im gonna support it. Now call
for the questions.
Mayor: Does anybody else want to talk about it? Okay, lets just vote.
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Beckles: Council Member Pinplay? No. The motion passes 5-2 with Council Member Pinplay voting no,
and Mayor Butt voting no.
Bates: One reason I voted for it was there wasnt one speaker in opposition of it.
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Richmond council passes resolution supporting ban on space-based wea...
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Richmond: Space weapons resolution prompts requests to

investigate
By Karina Ioffee kioffee@bayareanewsgroup.com
East Bay Times
Posted:Mon Jun 01 18:42:20 MDT 2015
RICHMOND -- A city resolution banning space weapons within city limits has prompted dozens of calls to the Richmond Police
Department in recent days to ask the agency to investigate the alleged use of chips, bugs and other devices for mind and body
control.
On May 19, the City Council approved a resolution supporting the Space Preservation Act and Space Preservation Treaty
permanently banning "space-based weapons," such as microchips planted in people's bodies and micro waves that supporters
believe are used by nefarious sources to harm them.
The resolution was written by Councilwoman Jovanka Beckles, who works as a mental health specialist for Contra Costa County,
and aimed at "making all Richmond residents feel safe," she said.
"I don't intend to ignore the concerns from residents who say they have been exposed to these attacks that have caused them great
emotional and bodily harm," Beckles said.
The fallout has prompted worries that Richmond, which is working hard to remold its image in recent years, will be dismissed as
slightly off by the news media and other municipalities.
" I am trying to figure out how we can use this newfound fame to help market Richmond, much as desolate eastern Nevada has
used the Extraterrestrial Highway to lure tourists to an otherwise deserted stretch of desert highway," joked Richmond Mayor Tom
Butt in a recent online posting.
But the issue actually started last June, when Richmond police Capt. Mark Gagan was asked by Beckles to meet with residents who
said they were being targeted by space technology. Eager to show the department was sensitive to residents' concerns, Gagan
agreed.
"My desire was how to better serve this population from a public safety standpoint," said Gagan, a 20-year veteran with the
department. "There are people who have a huge amount of stress, anxiety and fear. These issues have public safety implications
no matter how far-fetched they seem."
The meeting had the best of intentions. But it appears to have also motivated conspiracy theorists who began to see the city as an
ally. Gagan began receiving invitations to speak at conferences organized by the "targeted individuals" community, and a rumor
started that the city had a task force devoted to uncovering government conspiracies. One organization even gave Gagan a
"humanitarian award" for his work on the issue.
"People were thrilled that someone was finally listening to them," Gagan said.
Since that meeting, he estimates that he's received more than 100 calls from people from as far away as Ireland who say they want
Richmond police to investigate their particular situations. Gagan always takes the time to explain that the department looks at facts
and has so far found no evidence to support concerns raised by callers.
"We try to refocus the conversation, and if they are local, get them into a managed program of medication and supervision," Gagan
said.
Contact Karina Ioffee at 510-262-2726 or kioffee@bayareanewsgroup.com. Follow her at Twitter.com/kioffee
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Stan J. Caterbone
ADVANCED MEDIA GROUPFreedom From
Covert Harassment & Surveillance,

1250 Fremont Street

Lancaster, PA 17603
CORROBORATING EXPERT AND FORMER NSA WHISTLEBLOWER

KAREN STEWART
DISCLOSURE OF ELECTROGAGNETIC WEAPONS USED TO KILL CERTAIN
TARGETED INDIVIDUALS DURING APRIL 10, 2016 RADIO INTERVIEW
THE DISCLOSURE
Karen Stewart graduated from Florida State University in 1979 with a BS degree in German Language
and a minor or co-major equivalent in Fine Art. She worked for NSA (National Security Agency) from
1982 to 2010. Her resume will follow.
Her video interviews can be seen on the following YOUTUBE links:
Wheel of Freedom (WUA) 4/4/16 Ex-NSA Karen Stewart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExpCL27ft10
NSA whistle blower Karen Stewart exposes targeted Individuals, 9/11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ravXai6nfMg
On March 9, 2016 I was detained and falsely imprisoned by no less than 8 NSA Security Police
on the barracks of the Headquarters of the NSA at Ft. Meade Maryland.
I was handcuffed, and
interrogated for over an hour, while my car was dog sniffed and searched. I was ordered to return to
Lancaster rather than continue on to Washington, D.C., and was ordered not to enter any federally
owned property again. The following is a video of my statement:
Statement and Video of False Imprisonment re Handcuffed and Interrogation for an hour at NSA
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Headquarters (National Security Agency at Ft. Meade, Maryland) by 8 NSA Police officers on March 9,
2015 Recorded on March 11, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeXlaQn5Nhs
Karen Stewart's resume at the NSA is as follows: I Worked various projects over the years, not
just USSR/Russia, but various countries researching/reporting on foreign military status and alliances,
weapons development and proliferation, the Chernobyl disaster and aftermath, the fall of the Iron
Curtain
and
changing
relations
among
newly
liberated
countries,
economic
and
diplomatic
developments of certain target countries. I researched and wrote a series of intelligence reports in
support of Operation Iraqi Freedom that kept secret Russian countermeasures sold to Iraq from
wreaking havoc on the American invasion. This ultimately is what got me fired because I questioned
why my work was used to promote another employee who had no experience with but, was credited
with my work .
The following transcript of an interview by Karen Stewart in which she describes the lethal
electromagnetic weapons and her experience on being on the receiving end was taken from the article
titled NSA Whistleblower Comes Out of the Shadows Into the Light and can be found at:
http://canadafreepress.com/article/nsa-whistleblower-comes-out-of-the-shadows-intothe-light
The article was written by Sher Zieve -- Bio and Archives and published March 28, 2016. The byline is
as follows: In February, 2014 I published an interview of an NSA Whistleblower. This is a follow-up to
that column. Due to recent threats to her person and other exigent circumstances, the Whistleblower
has decided to come out of the shadows and into the light. I am honored that she again chose me to
write her story.
KAREN STEWART'S TRANSCRIPT

First of all, the case STEWART V. NSA is a righteous lawsuit, (brought in 2010) meaning it is a
clear case of employer abuse of power and position to an egregious and even premeditated criminal
level meant to circumvent whistleblower protection laws like the No Fear Act. Simply put, I asked the
NSA Inspector General (IG) to investigate why my award-winning intelligence report series supporting
Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003) was used to promote an entirely different woman twice (2004 & 2005)
one who had nothing to do with my reports whatsoever, and was a known incompetent, but had
methodically sexually compromised many of the male managers within the Weapons & Space (W&S)
Directorate. Instead of following correct procedure, the IG and NSA Security decided to cover up the
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infraction by attacking me. Threats were made to paint my complaint as paranoid and to fire me for a
non-existent mental illness if I did not drop my effort to get credit for and the promotion for my own
work, given to the wrong woman. These threats quickly took shape as false accusations against me by
the guilty personnel obviously coached by Security, manifested with stalking harassment masquerading
as an investigation by NSA Security goons from 2006-2009. In late 2010, despite all evidence
showing my innocence from ridiculous and impossible charges, I was fired by an NSA Kangaroo court
with a predetermined agenda. My EEOC appeal (lawsuit) had been accepted for adjudication and the
judge had ordered no adverse action until its adjudication but NSA ignored his orders.
I moved from Columbia, Maryland back to my familys hometown of Tallahassee, Florida in 2011.
All was quiet until February 2015 when I instructed the law firm I had hired to subpoena evidence from
the Maryland Department of Motor Vehicles identifying a burglar (a now retired NSA Executive) who had
broken into my home very shortly after I had tried to make my 2006 Inspector General request for an
investigation, and stolen extra house, car, and mail keys as well as illegally bugging (burst bug) our
home and phone/internet to facilitate further harassment and likely search for blackmail material (no
luck for them there).
After the subpoena, I began noticing Security types in Tallahassee following me and photostalking me by March/April. Their license plates suggested Naval Security Group from Pensacola and
NSA Security personnel from Georgia (Augusta) and Texas (San Antonio). A quick check with the Leon
County Sheriffs Department, specifically Duty Officer deputy Canon, confirmed that NSA also had
personnel land at a private airport and deputies had escorted them the the Phipps property north of
Lake Jackson (near where I now live) for a secret exercise, just before the second round of stalking
harassment began. The sequence of events seems to have been for NSA Security to contact the Naval
Security Group in Pensacola, Florida (Headquartered at Ft. Meade, Maryland along with NSA) to initially
stalk and photograph me under ridiculous false pretenses until NSA could send its own Security
personnel to Tallahassee. Once there, under guise of authority, it appears that NSA enlisted the help of
the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) and its civilian group, InfraGard, made up of
civilians recruited from their Ride-Along programs. As usual, NSA personnel fabricated some big lie as
to why the civilians should actively and passively stalk and harass me, and despite quite obvious
questions about why laws and due process were to be completely suspended in my case, the group
eagerly jumped at the opportunity for hundreds to gang up on one person (for Federal money, I may
add).
Thus, under NSA tutelage and FDLE auspices, suddenly I was a cast-iron target, meaning
multiple people covered me wherever I was, whatever I did. Cars were even stationed near my home
overnight on rotating shifts, beeping to each other when changing shifts but also for my benefit. NSA
also sought out willing neighbors to augment their snooping and harassment efforts, which could be
anything from hosting an NSA Security goon for accessibility to my property, both home (to bug and
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monitor short-distance transmissions) and car (to install and switch out vehicle GPS trackers to
facilitate car stalking and impeding as harassment. ) Those were the active participants, others not
assigned to me on a certain shift were ordered to quickly text in to a special site the big bad threat to
report my location and time I was there. People even snooped in my shopping carts to be able to tattle
to someone about what I was doing, what I was buying. (God help us, she bought bananas!!! Save the
children!).
This was annoying enough but I tried to ignore it because I thought NSA once again was going
for the usual See, shes paranoid, reporting harassment every day now just dismiss her lawsuit!
But I did report acts of harassment that caused physical damage such as hit and run,
purposely sideswiping my car, (This is exatly what happened to the PETTITIONER on May 9,
2016 enroute to MEDEXPRESS for pain medications) and botching the placement/removal of
a GPS tracker under my rear spoiler that destroy my spoiler. (They feared my mechanic
would find their tracker so they botched its removal the night before my appointment). I
even made fun of my stalkers when I could, using my hobby art shop on a popular internet
site to create bumper magnets making fun of them. After all, they were mostly nave,
unsophisticated boobs who desperately imagined that they were little James Bonds and that
the greatest existential threat to their country was a woman waiting for her lawsuit to be
decided, living in Tallahassee, walking her dogs, visiting friends.
In late November 2015, however, NSA apparently decided that I was not sufficiently
being intimidated by their civilian confederacy of dunces to back off my lawsuit to recover
my stolen salary and stolen retirement at the appropriate pay level. In 2009 I had
researched gang-stalking and discovered it was a real and growing phenomenon, but when
electrical harassment was mentioned, I could not really grasp the concept and wondered
about its existence. But I was to find out first hand in November 2015 that it does exist and
is a horrific crime against humanity.
NSA and its operatives started using small, mobile devices called Directed Energy
Weapons (DEWs) against me and my family in the night. These mobile weapons emit
multiple types of electrical emanations from ultrasonic, to microwaves modulated to radio
frequencies, to other kinds of wave variations I cant say I understand yet. Now, with the
help of certain mercenary and morally depraved neighbors, the effort is almost 24/7 now
with the intention being torture and slow-kill. These types of weapons over a lengthy time,
cause cancer, autoimmune disease, heart attacks, seizures, strokes, etc. It is the perfect
stealth murder weapon for a corrupt government.
At this point, when we leave the house, a criminal base of stalkers has been enlisted
by NSA to follow us and aim the DEWs at us wherever feasible to increase exposure in order
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to speed up death, with the help of the InfraGard dimwits still texting in my location like
good little sheeple.
The Leon County Sheriffs Department as well as the Tallahassee Police Department
are dragging their feet, making excuses, denying any such thing exists, or insulting me when
I try to enlist their help to come up with a strategy to combat this new crime before I or
one of my family is dead. They cant quite grasp the fact that this is domestic terrorism and
nothing protects the police or any official from this new weapon held and wielded by
criminals. Yet, plenty of recruits in their ranks have experience using the mobile DEWs in
Iraq. It is very interesting to me that the Naval Security Group headquartered at Ft. Meade
with NSA, is also called the Silent Warriors because they specialize in the use of Directed
Energy Weapons. Im sure the Naval Security Group base in Pensacola has many on hand
and may have even gotten a request from NSA to borrow a few for their secret exercise in
Tallahassee.
Clearly, NSA is of the opinion that you do not have Constitutional Rights unless they
say you do. If they use this to get rid of an inconvenient lawsuit such as mine instead of
simply settling for a tenth of the cost of harassment, then they must feel confident they
can murder anyone, anywhere, for any reason and get away with itincluding any leader or
politician.
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There is no doubt that NSA is now run by sycophants and sociopaths
EXCLUSIVE: Former NSA Employee Speaks Out on its

Corruption Karen Stewart
By Sher Zieve -- Bio and Archives
February 20, 2014
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At the very least, for the past few months to a year it has become increasingly evident thatalthough
not allmany agencies of the US Federal government have become increasingly dirty, perverse and
corrupt and require a deep and thorough cleaning.
The US Secret Service has previously been exposed as including claims of involvement with
prostitutes, leaking sensitive information, publishing pornography, sexual assault, illegal wiretaps,
improper use of weapons and drunken behavior and the IRS was caught and admitted to denying
Obamas political enemies (aka TEA Party, Christians, religious Jews, conservatives) their Constitutional
rights while allowing progressive groups (aka Liberals, Leftists, Marxists, Maoists, Socialists,
Communists) theirs. Andlove him, hate him or fall somewhere in-betweenEdward Snowden shone a
very bright light on the unconstitutional domestic mega-spying of one of these clandestine agencies
the National Security Agency. Thus far, under Obamas increasingly iron rule, few-to-no members of
these agencies have even been indicted by Congress for their blatant crimes against the American
people.
The NSA appears to have begun as a patriotic organization that was geared toward protecting the USA
and its citizens. Whether or not that was its original intended purpose is a subject for discussion and
speculation. However, portions of the NSA seem to have devolved into something very sinister. Todays
interview will concentrate on this agency.
NSA Analyst. Due to a number of substantive reasons, this former Analysts identity cannot be divulged
at this time and will be referred to as W. I have, however, confirmed this individuals prior employment
and credentials via a well-known NSA Whistleblower. The information disseminated to me, amongst
other things tells a sordid story of corruption and how employees are silenced into submissionvia fear
within the agency,
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The Interview
Sher:Thanks so much for being with me, today, in order to provide essential additional information to
the public on how many of their tax dollars are really being spent. You were employed by the NSA for
over two decades. Would you tell the readers what initially attracted you to the agency as well as how it
has deteriorated over time?
Karen Stewart: Like many people from families with a strong history of serving our country, coming
out of college, I looked to find a way to best utilize my particular interests and talents in service to my
fellow Americans. The mission of the NSA it seemed to me, was to stop threats coming to our shores.
Its charter clearly targeted foreign nationals on foreign soil who did or could intend us harm. That
appealed to me as a righteous endeavor and honorable tack for my life to take.
Sher: Youve shared with me how the NSA deals with its employees who bring legitimate complaints to
their superiors. How thoroughly intimidating and threatening are their behaviors toward those who balk
at their adverse treatment? Would you give a few examples?
Karen Stewart: Apparently the nature of NSA Security degenerated under General Michael Hayden,
the previous Director of NSA (DIRNSA), who promoted a very questionable mid-level Security manager
to a power position within Security. Hayden had originally been tasked to eviscerate NSA since a very
shallow and short-sighted Congress believed that the fall of the Iron Curtain meant no danger existed
anywhere anymore that required the existence of a robust NSA presence. There evolved, under him, a
gratuitously vicious bully mindset that employees were to be intimidated at any opportunity not only to
drive them out of NSA but to cut back on people reporting problems that made NSA look bad, especially
problems involving upper management.
Under Hayden and his successor, General Keith Alexander, the filing of complaints to or requests for
investigations by the NSA EEO or the OIG (Office of the Inspector General) were often inexplicably
blown off despite adequate evidence or the presence of willing witnesses. Then the person who had
filed the complaint would be subjected to an out of cycle reinvestigation interview with Security as
well as polygraph exam, wherein the tone of the Security person was not neutralas it should bebut,
hostile with far-fetched or even ridiculous non-issues presented as potentially problematic. This was a
Security shot across the bow to warn the person that he had crossed the line by filing the complaint. If
he pursued the complaint, Security would lean on his managers to heavily discourage him from doing
what he thought was proper and was indeed a protected action under the law. If he persisted, did his
own amateur investigation, or told coworkers about the situation, he might be called down to Security
multiple times and accused of being paranoid and delusional based on his complaint, and his job
threatened.
The worse the infraction reported, especially if a high level manager looked to be involved, the more
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severe the reaction by Security. In cases of egregious wrong-doing by a manager, Security would
review the personnel files, medical files, and financial statements to find anything they could use to
threaten or blackmail him with, or pretend to misinterpret some tidbit of information as something it
was not.
Some people were forced to sign admissions of guilt of preposterous misinterpretations of facts in order
to keep their jobs, thereby killing their credibility and complaint. When nothing was found in such files
that could be used, a false accusation of espionage or leaking classified materials ginned up by Security,
was used to justify a Security intrusion into the persons home to search for blackmail material, further
assess the interests and personality of the targeted individual (TI), and plant bugs and abscond with an
extra set of keys for further intrusions. The more the person objected to being bullied, the more heavyhanded Security became, insisting that hostility toward them indicated wrong-doing on the TIs part.
Thus the TI would become harried and harassed for a crime he never committed, if it ever
even was committed, and to repeated accusations by Security Psych services of a nonexistent mental illness, more than adequately supported by years of internal, psychological
evaluations stating he was mentally sound (Paranoia with delusions is rare and certainly
never occurs overnight, but that does not deter a Security psychologist attack dog, whose
favorite mode of attack employs reference to this malady).
The more a person stood his ground, the more personal it became to Security, which then
became dedicated to the personal destruction of the TI. Under the pretext of the fake
accusation of espionage or leaking classified information, Security would slander the
individual with his coworkers, work friends and managers to isolate him and apply yet more
pressure. Many backed away from supporting the TI in fear for their careers and maybe even
freedom. Certainly this sent a message to the workforce in the TIs area that NSA Security
was at its essence, a rogue, unaccountable and psychotic entity that was to be greatly
feared.
Once NSA Security had decided upon the removal of the TI for failing to be sufficiently
cowed, then false evidence was given to the FBI liaisons assigned to NSA. This would
engender a fraudulent FISA warrant, which loosed FBI surveillance and investigators upon
the person for a few weeks or months, further slandering him to his work and social circles
and thereby putting pressure on him by their constant presence. When the FBI would find no
basis for the accusation, they would drop the case and move on. However, at that point,
Security would send in their own personnel sans warrant, to overtly stalk and harass the TI ,
24/7.
In some instances, Security has even gone into the persons

neighborhood to recruit snitches and augment harassment with
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hostile civilians convinced the TI is an enemy of the state, based

on baseless Security slander.
Intrusions would be made into his home to remove gathered evidence or
move things around as a psychological ploy and his car would be secretly
GPSd to facilitate vehicular stalking and aggressive driving games. There
have even been reports of pet murders by poisoning as an escalation of the
harassment with the inferred threat that perhaps it could be the TIs child or
himself next. The harassment is essentially elevated until the TI either
breaks and assaults a harasser or complains to Security about the insane
and sadistic, not to mention criminal way in which he is being mistreated.
This is what Security planned for and is ready to jump on as their
springboard to terminating his employment.
His security clearance is immediately pulled, he is warehoused in a menial job until adequate paperwork
and a back-story can be fabricated or forged to falsely present a termination due to mental instability or
illness, and the person is fired. Of course there is an appeals process, but it is thoroughly corrupted. No
matter how much evidence supports the victim and how little supports NSA, NSA always wins these
cases where it is clear the person was targeted for dismissal. Of course, this does nothing but embolden
more degenerate or criminal behavior while making it clear that the person reporting evil will be
considered the problem, and that in reality no labor laws or whistle protection laws can actually protect
an NSA employee, because real watch dog entities dont exist within NSA and state and Federal
authorities routinely turn a blind eye to the reported abuses even as they become more criminal and
seditious.
I shake my head at sycophant, disingenuous politicians who claim Edward Snowden could have or
should have gone through proper internal authorities to report the abuses and criminal acts being
committed within NSA. Would that be to the thoroughly corrupted, attack dog-watch dog entities, or the
thoroughly oblivious or compromised politicians responsible for oversight who are in fact, in the NSAs
pocket due to bribery, blackmail or stupidity?
Sher: The NSA seems to suffer from the some of the same maladies as did the recent outing of the
Secret Service. Without becoming too specific, would you give us a general idea as to advancement for
sexual favors that have occurred within the agency? How defeating is that to employees who are simply
working to protect the country while their bosses are indulging in sexual liaisons with lower level
employees?
Karen Stewart: In my career, promotions were always hard to come by, meted out perhaps every
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five years if you were a good or exceptional worker, but male managers discovered that they held the
keys to paradise in regard to attractive or even acceptable women willing to take shortcuts. These
were the women who would make promotions in stunningly rapid succession with little to no
accomplishments - of their own, that is. While others killed themselves with years of grueling shift work
or even multiple dangerous foreign assignments only to find themselves evaluated as a 3.6 on a scale
of 5, when an attractive, morally loose recent college graduate would receive a 4.8 for essentially
alphabetizing a shelf of reference books her first 6 months on the job. This made many, many people
bitter and certainly sent the wrong signal to the hardest workers and the most talented. Though many
stopped being as dedicated to their jobs, others did indeed press ahead and worked tirelessly knowing
their reward was the mission accomplished and not likely appropriate recognition. Capable men
despaired of receiving deserved promotions and women almost feared being promoted for exceptional
work, fearing they would be assumed to be one of the typically incapable promotion bimbos among the
bloated management. Expertise and knowledge became commodities to guard and not share with new
workers, fearing you would not reap the benefits of your own work. This of course created a situation
where expertise and insight must be gained and regained from scratch, losing precious time training up
area or target experts to the detriment of the mission.
It was very discouraging to see immature or degenerate bosses spending their time flirting and chasing
skirts, the very same people who were charged with competently reviewing your work, (keeping
apprised of the big picture so people felt free to specialize their research), and whose responsibility it
was to accurately and honestly represent their people before promotion boards. But the atmosphere of
secrecy, the strict laws about divulging names of NSA employees or anything that occurred there,
emboldened certain men to believe that their wives and families would never know of their
indiscretions, and turned work time into play time for them. And now apparently young males are also
being pursued as sexual toys. One has to wonder what is being missed in the realm of highly perishable
intelligence leads by distracted managerial incompetents.
Sher: As an additional example of NSA intimidation, one of the things youd said may be shared is your
experience with the 3 Amigos. Would you tell us about them?
Karen Stewart:There were three eccentric looking older males who were often seen in the NSA OPS1
cafeteria together, whom we also got to know by word of mouth, as master electricians well-versed in
computer science. They were nicknamed by some in the analyst field as Rasputin, Santa, and Choo
Choo or the engineer, due to their highly unusual appearances and dress. One eye witness being
harassed on yet another NSA Security retaliatory witch hunt, reported seeing one of these men at her
home, on her property, when she discovered indications that her home had been broken into, her cable
box broken into, and her phone hacked, leaving tell-tale clicking sounds at regular intervals whenever
she used her phone. Any phone tap done by warrant is done at the carriers hub under their auspices
and will not click, only illegal hack jobs click.
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somewhere he should not have been, but recognized him by his highly unusual appearance from work.
When she attempted to look him up in the NSA data base by career specialty, she found that what
should have been his photo, which should have been a source of pride since he was of the rank to be a
Flag Badger (Manager whose rank is senior enough to garner a photo with the American flag in the
background), was instead a photo of a desert animal called a Meercat indicating that he wanted his
identity hidden from the general NSA population.
Sher: With regards to many who have said that the NSAs collection of meta-data on all forms of
communication between legal citizens of the USA is unconstitutional, also indicated is the fact that not
one terrorist act has been stopped by said collection. It appears good old-fashioned police work is what
still gets the perp. In your opinion, is this accurate?
Karen Stewart: I think it is indeed true that the meta data collection ruse within the USA distracts
from tried and true research and investigation, which the latter method apparently DID INDEED
uncover the 9/11 plot months before it happened, well in time to have prevented it, according to two
separate analysts with whom I have spoken, one just two days after 9/11 as he broke down and
sobbed his heart out, repeating We could have saved them! We could have saved them! But they
wouldnt let us report it!, and the other several years later, who maintained the same story of being
threatened and forbidden to report any warning about 9/11, then being harassed and fired for a nonexistent mentally illness. However, it is a good means to track your political enemies and detractors and
their affiliates within the US - for future reference? It would appear much more for the self-preservation
and expansion of NSA as the ubiquitous Orwellian Big Brother than for the protection of the USA. With
the power the NSA wields, it could easily influence border control issues and immigration issues to
make us not as susceptible to terrorist intrusions and infiltrations, but that would undermine their
power grab and expansion within the US, something never intended at NSAs creation - and for good
reason.
Sher:As a former long time employee of the NSA, what do you believeif anythingcan be done to
correct the problems within the agency?
Karen Stewart:There is no doubt that NSA is now run by those sycophants and sociopaths who are
the least desirable to have in any position of such sensitivity and trust and are purging NSA ranks of
people with integrity. Compromising activity that would rightfully cost you your clearance, is now
viewed as intrinsic perks of the job once you reach a certain pay grade. These lesser leaders have
turned NSA into an American Gestapo Wanna-Be agency. NSA lost its way with non-serious super grade
playboys not mature enough for the responsibility of the job of managing and directing NSA,
compounding the problem by promoting sycophants to protect their backs as well as lightweights with
whom to have sexcapades behind office doors, but in that group also has risen opportunistic
sociopaths and psychopaths attracted to more and more power, any way they can get it, and by
conniving and ruthlessness have blown past incompetent, distracted management to change the very
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nature of the NSA from watchman to the American people to jack booted prison guard.
If the Legislative Branch is possessed of anyone with the least bit of courage and common sense, they
would demand super clearances for those on the Intelligence Oversight Committees so that years or
decades of abusive behaviors, kingdom building, or even crimes can not continually be swept under the
rug by telling these particular politicians, You dont have the need to know, just trust us. Obviously,
they cannot be trusted. An appointment to that Committee would of course have to become much more
exclusive, requiring a thorough vetting as any job with a Top Secret clearance should. But to deal with
the toxic management at NSA now, I would require every Flag Badger and Security manager to account
for himself and what he adds to the mission. If he is pork, retire him or require him to laterally transfer
to another agency. Before that however, I would require that every single Flag Badger and every
Security group manager take a polygraph by non-NSA affiliated or non-NSA sympathetic sources to
account for the millions of dollars wasted on their vicious and illegal war on NSA employees who
dutifully report fraud, waste, abuse as well as sexual predation and treason. Those who are found to be
guilty of such things as falsifying accusations against innocent employees; fabricating false witnesses
and evidence; engaging in illegal acts of breaking and entering; falsifying FISA warrant justifications;
lying to the FBI about a targeted victims criminality; falsifying psychological assessments; subverting
lie detector exams by screaming at the targeted subject during or just before the exam to create false
impressions of guilt; hiding or destroying exonerating evidence supporting their victims claims;
intimidating or roughing up witnesses; coordinating or participating in criminal stalking and harassment
activities, illegal break-ins, illegal wire taps, organizing and paying civilian groups under the table to
augment harassment of targeted employees, and lastly, conspiring to effect or cover up any or all of
these actions. And any NSA employee in that group who pleads the 5th, should be fired and stripped of
his retirement since this type of betrayal rots a country from within. NSA must be recreated, and
returned to the stated task in their founding charter of focusing on foreign enemies overseas.
Sher: W, so much of the information youve provided is truly astounding! Thanks so much for being
with us today and I hope youll be available for another should ongoing events require one.
Click to view 3 Comments
Sher Zieve is an author and political commentator. Zieves op-ed columns are widely carried by multiple
internet journals and sites, and she also writes hard news. Her columns have also appeared in The
Oregon Herald, Dallas Times, Sacramento Sun, in international news publications, and on multiple
university websites. Sher is also a guest on multiple national radio shows.
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1NSA Whistleblower Comes Out of the Shadows Into the Light Karen Stewarty
By Sher Zieve -- Bio and Archives
March 28, 2016
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In February, 2014 I published an interview of an NSA Whistleblower. This is a follow-up to that column.
Due to recent threats to her person and other exigent circumstances, the Whistleblower has decided to
come out of the shadows and into the light. I am honored that she again chose me to write her story.
Her name is Karen Stewart Karen Stewart

BIO
Education
Freshman year - Schiller College, Strasbourg, Fr.

Sophomore - Senior years, graduated from Florida State University (79)
BS in German Language and a minor or co-major equivalent in fine art
Work History: 1982-2010 NSA (National Security Agency

Underwent initial retraining from 1982 - 83, on the job training to become a linguist in a needed foreign
language (chosen to train in depth in Russian since my college major, German was not in demand but I
had also studied Russian and French with good results).
Worked
various
projects
over
the
years,
not
just
USSR/Russia,
but
various
countries
researching/reporting on foreign military status and alliances, weapons development and proliferation,
the Chernobyl disaster and aftermath, the fall of the Iron Curtain and changing relations among newly
liberated countries, economic and diplomatic developments of certain target countries. I researched and
wrote a series of intelligence reports in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom that kept secret Russian
countermeasures sold to Iraq from wreaking havoc on the American invasion. This ultimately is what
got me fired because I questioned why my work was used to promote another employee who had no
experience with but, was credited with my work.
Note...Due to the Top Secret nature of the work, the above summary is slightly vague, by design.
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The Interview
Sher: Karen, thanks for taking the time to speak with me and its so good to have you back and this
time under your name! As a Whistleblower, what finally made you decide to come out from the
shadows?
Karen: I always intended to link my name with my story because it is a story that needs to be told, but
since I have a lawsuit against NSA (technically an appeal of an unlawful, employer action, i.e. my
termination at the 28 point year of my career for trying to request an investigation by the NSA
Inspector General), sitting under a gag order demanded by NSA, on the docket at the Equal
Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) in Baltimore, I could not do so without risking the
adjudication going against me for that reason alone. However, in 2015 NSA Security made the decision
to yet again engage in a massive slander campaign against me in my new location, thus breaking its
own gag order so I feel no compunction to be held to a standard required by the EEOC judge at NSAs
request that NSA itself clearly holds in utter contempt.
Sher: Since we last talked, a lot has happened with you. You have refused to drop your discrimination
lawsuit against the NSA and have shared with me that the agency has stepped up its efforts against
youpersonally.
Youre now being stalked by what appear to be NSA operatives. Is that correct? As you reported to me
they, also, seem to be using electronic emanation technology to both stop and damage you. I believe
former NSA employee and Whistleblower Russel Tice reported on this, also. This is really deep dark
side information. Would you tell the readers what theyre doing to you, [possibly] others and why?
Karen: First of all, the case STEWART V. NSA is a righteous lawsuit, (brought in 2010) meaning it is a
clear case of employer abuse of power and position to an egregious and even premeditated criminal
level meant to circumvent whistleblower protection laws like the No Fear Act. Simply put, I asked the
NSA Inspector General (IG) to investigate why my award-winning intelligence report series supporting
Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003) was used to promote an entirely different woman twice (2004 & 2005)
one who had nothing to do with my reports whatsoever, and was a known incompetent, but had
methodically sexually compromised many of the male managers within the Weapons & Space (W&S)
Directorate. Instead of following correct procedure, the IG and NSA Security decided to cover up the
infraction by attacking me. Threats were made to paint my complaint as paranoid and to fire me for a
non-existent mental illness if I did not drop my effort to get credit for and the promotion for my own
work, given to the wrong woman. These threats quickly took shape as false accusations against me by
the guilty personnel obviously coached by Security, manifested with stalking harassment masquerading
as an investigation by NSA Security goons from 2006-2009. In late 2010, despite all evidence
showing my innocence from ridiculous and impossible charges, I was fired by an NSA Kangaroo court
with a predetermined agenda. My EEOC appeal (lawsuit) had been accepted for adjudication and the
judge had ordered no adverse action until its adjudication but NSA ignored his orders.
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I moved from Columbia, Maryland back to my familys hometown of Tallahassee, Florida in 2011. All
was quiet until February 2015 when I instructed the law firm I had hired to subpoena evidence from the
Maryland Department of Motor Vehicles identifying a burglar (a now retired NSA Executive) who had
broken into my home very shortly after I had tried to make my 2006 Inspector General request for an
investigation, and stolen extra house, car, and mail keys as well as illegally bugging (burst bug) our
home and phone/internet to facilitate further harassment and likely search for blackmail material (no
luck for them there).
After the subpoena, I began noticing Security types in Tallahassee following me and photo-stalking me
by March/April. Their license plates suggested Naval Security Group from Pensacola and NSA Security
personnel from Georgia (Augusta) and Texas (San Antonio). A quick check with the Leon County
Sheriffs Department, specifically Duty Officer deputy Canon, confirmed that NSA also had personnel
land at a private airport and deputies had escorted them the the Phipps property north of Lake Jackson
(near where I now live) for a secret exercise, just before the second round of stalking harassment
began. The sequence of events seems to have been for NSA Security to contact the Naval Security
Group in Pensacola, Florida (Headquartered at Ft. Meade, Maryland along with NSA) to initially stalk
and photograph me under ridiculous false pretenses until NSA could send its own Security personnel to
Tallahassee. Once there, under guise of authority, it appears that NSA enlisted the help of the Florida
Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) and its civilian group, InfraGard, made up of civilians
recruited from their Ride-Along programs. As usual, NSA personnel fabricated some big lie as to why
the civilians should actively and passively stalk and harass me, and despite quite obvious questions
about why laws and due process were to be completely suspended in my case, the group eagerly
jumped at the opportunity for hundreds to gang up on one person (for Federal money, I may add).
Thus, under NSA tutelage and FDLE auspices, suddenly I was a cast-iron target, meaning multiple
people covered me wherever I was, whatever I did. Cars were even stationed near my home overnight
on rotating shifts, beeping to each other when changing shifts but also for my benefit. NSA also sought
out willing neighbors to augment their snooping and harassment efforts, which could be anything from
hosting an NSA Security goon for accessibility to my property, both home (to bug and monitor shortdistance transmissions) and car (to install and switch out vehicle GPS trackers to facilitate car stalking
and impeding as harassment. ) Those were the active participants, others not assigned to me on a
certain shift were ordered to quickly text in to a special site the big bad threat to report my location
and time I was there. People even snooped in my shopping carts to be able to tattle to someone about
what I was doing, what I was buying. (God help us, she bought bananas!!! Save the children!).
This was annoying enough but I tried to ignore it because I thought NSA once again was going for the
usual See, shes paranoid, reporting harassment every day now just dismiss her lawsuit! But I did
report acts of harassment that caused physical damage such as hit and run, purposely sideswiping my
car, and botching the placement/removal of a GPS tracker under my rear spoiler that destroy my
spoiler. (They feared my mechanic would find their tracker so they botched its removal the night before
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my appointment). I even made fun of my stalkers when I could, using my hobby art shop on a popular
internet site to create bumper magnets making fun of them. After all, they were mostly nave,
unsophisticated boobs who desperately imagined that they were little James Bonds and that the
greatest existential threat to their country was a woman waiting for her lawsuit to be decided, living in
Tallahassee, walking her dogs, visiting friends.
In late November 2015, however, NSA apparently decided that I was not sufficiently
being intimidated by their civilian confederacy of dunces to back off my lawsuit to
recover my stolen salary and stolen retirement at the appropriate pay level. In 2009
I had researched gang-stalking and discovered it was a real and growing
phenomenon, but when electrical harassment was mentioned, I could not really
grasp the concept and wondered about its existence. But I was to find out first hand
in November 2015 that it does exist and is a horrific crime against humanity.
NSA and its operatives started using small, mobile devices called Directed Energy
Weapons (DEWs) against me and my family in the night. These mobile weapons
emit multiple types of electrical emanations from ultrasonic, to microwaves
modulated to radio frequencies, to other kinds of wave variations I cant say I
understand yet. Now, with the help of certain mercenary and morally depraved
neighbors, the effort is almost 24/7 now with the intention being torture and slowkill. These types of weapons over a lengthy time, cause cancer, autoimmune
disease, heart attacks, seizures, strokes, etc. It is the perfect stealth murder
weapon for a corrupt government. At this point, when we leave the house, a
criminal base of stalkers has been enlisted by NSA to follow us and aim the DEWs at
us wherever feasible to increase exposure in order to speed up death, with the help
of the InfraGard dimwits still texting in my location like good little sheeple.
The Leon County Sheriffs Department as well as the Tallahassee Police Department are dragging their
feet, making excuses, denying any such thing exists, or insulting me when I try to enlist their help to
come up with a strategy to combat this new crime before I or one of my family is dead. They cant
quite grasp the fact that this is domestic terrorism and nothing protects the police or any official from
this new weapon held and wielded by criminals. Yet, plenty of recruits in their ranks have experience
using the mobile DEWs in Iraq. It is very interesting to me that the Naval Security Group headquartered
at Ft. Meade with NSA, is also called the Silent Warriors because they specialize in the use of Directed
Energy Weapons. Im sure the Naval Security Group base in Pensacola has many on hand and may
have even gotten a request from NSA to borrow a few for their secret exercise in Tallahassee.
Clearly, NSA is of the opinion that you do not have Constitutional Rights unless they say you do. If they
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use this to get rid of an inconvenient lawsuit such as mine instead of simply settling for a tenth of the
cost of harassment, then they must feel confident they can murder anyone, anywhere, for any reason
and get away with itincluding any leader or politician.
Sher: Why in the world do you think the NSA simply didnt settle the suit? With all of the
documentation you have, it seems that they are guilty of the discrimination and could have spent far
less of the taxpayers money to simply pay you off and make it go away. They would, also, have
avoided this coming out into the open. Are they that arrogant and Narcissistic?
Karen: This has truly NEVER made any sense to me or any of my friends, even those who worked at
NSA. NSA could have investigated, claimed a mistake had been made and retroactively promoted me
without even addressing the unethical behavior of W&S personnel. Instead, the IG refused to
investigate, illegally of course, but I could not have made him do his job. Plus, the guilty were
instructed to blame me for what turned out to be the first leak by ex-NSA executive Thomas Drake,
despite the fact that I had no access to, knowledge of or training in the type of material he leaked
(computer technology) and he was identified as the source of that leak six months before I was fired.
The polygraph section of Security actively tried to sabotage my polygraph exams in response to the
false counter-accusation by inappropriately screaming and threatening me, making it impossible to pass
a polygraph, which ruined my first polygraph in this regard though I passed the next two of the three
given in reaction to the false accusation.
The EEOC is capped at $300,000 actual damages, no punitive allowed. My intention was to get the lost
difference in my wages as a GS-12 when I should have been a GS-14, and to get the appropriate level
of retirement. Yet, clearly, NSA has spent millions organizing and paying civilians (and greasing the
palms of crooked law enforcement) to harass, bully, intimidate,and quite obviously viciously slander
me.
Do they engage in such psychopathic behavior because they can? Because they simply have no real
oversight? The operational head of NSA Security is indeed rumored far and wide to be an actual
psychopath who is obsessed with paintings of Dantes Inferno.
A coworker who worked in NSA Human Resources says she remembered when the resumes of
inappropriate people (criminals, perverts, mentally unstable) were automatically thrown away but
suddenly when General Hayden, a former NSA Director, promoted this particular man, the resumes of
thieves, moral degenerates, etc., were then coveted by Security. She said that she was so upset that
she had to find a different job. I did read an opinion on the Anti-polygraph site that NSA Security
leadership, and hence all of Security in essence, could be said to suffer from Dark Triad personality
disorder, which is a dangerous combination of such things as (malignant) narcissism, sociopathy, etc.
Their egos are such that they are obsessed with winning at all costseven fighting to keep a known
false accusation from being proven false by their victim, because they exist in their own projected
narrative. They exist in their own lies and cannot stand being exposed. This means they follow their
own agendas. What is good for NSA Security leadership, even at the cost of NSA or the USA. Their
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allegiances are to themselves. This has made me wonder, of late, if the woman who Security protected
instead of reprimanding or firing for sexually compromising W&S management was not a Security plant,
meant to do just that. And, in so doing, was NSA Security procuring a means to blackmail these
managers for themselves or another entity, perhaps foreign?
Sher: You have multiple photos and even drawings youve made of you stalkers. Youve also indicated
to me that the NSA has been in touch with your local law enforcement. Said law enforcement is siding
with the NSA against youa private citizen. What do your attorneys have to say about these?
Karen: At the beginning of my search for a law firm to take my case, Melville Johnson PC informed me
that I had potentially two cases, in 2009, an employment law case and a criminal case. I could only
afford to pursue the employment case since I was facing illegal termination on false pretenses within a
few months. While my lawyers have recorded the information about the new assault campaign by NSA
in Florida, thus far their pleas with the EEOC for some kind of response because their client is now in
physical danger have been completely ignored.
What has been going on in Florida is entirely criminal and could be a separate lawsuit, to even include
law enforcement in regard to their depraved negligenceif not complicity. But, at the moment, I am
concerned with surviving the relentless Directed Energy Weapons assaults. If I do not, then my family
will have to consider a wrongful death lawsuit against NSA, FBI (that refuse to get involved because
NSA is involved), and the FDLE, the TPD and Leon County Sheriffs Department as well as certain
complicit neighbors accepting a new riding mower or new carpeting in exchange for helping NSA
murder an inconvenient person who actually thought she had any Constitutional, human, or Civil
Rights.
Sher: With regards to your lawsuit, what are your current plans?
Karen: Good question. Reporting and recording the new barrage of assaults has whittled deeply into
my retainer. This was hard enough to maintain after spending about $110,000, thus far, and often
countering ridiculous and frivolous legal shenanigans by NSA to waste my money. With an outrageously
unresponsive EEOC, which may indeed be a complete and obscene sham for show, one wonders why
continue with the pretense that we exist as a nation of laws? Clearly, we do not.
The government has no desire for a level playing field to impede its quest for complete tyranny. We are
now a nation of wolves and sheeple. Im sure that after getting wind of this article, NSA will come to
the EEOC with big crocodile tears claiming they need to win by default because I broke the gag order
after they themselves spent millions, bald-faced lying to thousands of civilians, law enforcement and
(apparently) the FBI about me, invoking National Security Letters to swear them to secrecy and to hide
the true nature of their faux secret exercise in Tallahasseei.e., enticing a foolish community to stalk,
harass and commit murder for Big Brother.
But, God forbid the victim would speak out!
It truly sickens me that I spent my career trying to protect and serve my fellow Americans when not
only my government but these unworthy mercenary, sociopaths have stabbed me in the back. Some of
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the stalkers have even been Iraqi War veteranssome of whom might not have returned alive without
my reports.
I cant think a lot about the lawsuit with each nocturnal assault leaving me wondering if I or one of my
family will not wake up tomorrow. Im sentenced to death for being a patriot. What a country. I read
Psalm 91 & 94 nightly, praying God will want to erase this growing evil from our country. But, I also
remember that Ruth Graham said a while ago, if God doesnt judge America, Hell have to apologize to
Sodom and Gomorrah.
Americans are just not the people they and we used to be and, therefore, our leaders are either
apathetic cowards who tolerate evil or potentially monsters like NSA Securitywho show that they can
be and are not responsible to anyone but themselves.
Is NSA Security even able to be reined in anymore? Or would any potential leader be found dead of a
microwave induced heart attack if he tried to? Someone ought to care but I may not be around long
enough to see it.
Sher: Thanks you so much for all youve done and I sincerely hope and pray youre wrong, Karen. Its
individuals like you who founded the United States of America on Godly principles and an unwavering
sense of ethics.
*Karen may be contacted for interviews at kams56@ME.com
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StanJ. Caterbone
Freedom From Covert Harassment &
Surveillance,
1250Fremont Street
Lancaster, PA 17603
717-669-2163
Greg Szymanskis Interview

With Julianne McKinney
Microwave Harassment and Mind Control
Transcribed for Advanced Media Group,
05/28/16
This interview contains information from Julianne McKinneys book Microwave Harassment and
Mind Control Experimentation, 1992, as well as current conditions world-wide. Years of
interviews turned Gregg Szymanski from skeptic to believer in the secret world of electronic
harassment, as harassment against Julianne McKinney has turned potentially lethal. They are
taking a stand to help TIs, Targeted Individuals, many civilians, escape this cruel harassment.
Julianne: Okay. I have seen evidence of a closed circuit TV and it seems to be some form of major
source of entertainment and perhaps instruction for the individuals participating in this harassment. I
dont know who runs it. I have seen aspects of that on a large screen TV across the street on which I
saw surveillance films of a TI being harassed, obviously, in an office environment. Gang stalked. Shows
brain scans and is otherwise a very sophisticated, sleek, communications operation. Why would it be
used? As I said either for entertainment, for creating a sense of unity, or for identifying persons, TIs,
who are to be harassed on the street. I mean, obviously you cant harass someone if you dont know
what that person looks like. So its a means of communicating to the perpetrators, perps, what the TI
looks like.
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TRANSCRIPT OF GREG SZYMANSKIS INTERVIEW WITH JULIANNE MCKINNEY

ON MICROWAVE HARASSMENT AND MIND CONTROL
Published May 28, 2016
Greg Szymanski:
(Also) I have a guest whos never given a radio interview before. Her name is
Julianne McKinney. For those of you who dont know who she is, she is an expert in electronic
harassment and surveillanceformer military background. And those of you who have followed this
story on my show, many may know who she is and the importance she has in this field.
Were just going to lay some very solid credibility to what weve been talking about. So this interviews
quite important and I want you to remember that, as we go along, shes a very, very well-read person.
Were gonna get to that in a minute. The problem on the use of electronic weaponry on a person was
when I was working in a law office. The law office I was working for severaloh a number of years ago,
the law office I worked for prided in taking cases that were difficult. And I listened to a person tell me
about the facts regarding the use of electronic weaponry. And I had a discussion with somebody else at
the law firm and we came to this conclusion causation causation causation Greg, remember that
element. Its going to be awfully difficult to link whats happening to the person. The injuries they were
alleging, to actually the person, or the defendants, that were doing it.
So it was a case, Ill be very honest with you, that I was very skeptical over. But, as a journalist, I
started to interview a number of people, and I would like to say that this issue, after a number of years,
has come up to one of the top of my list as a problem in this country.
I talked to hundreds of people all around the country that are experiencing things that are just
unbelievable. And from a standpoint of the law, you want to get justice for these people. You hate to
see their lives destroyed, and you hate to see what happens, to a person thats been harassed. But the
biggest problem is its very difficult to pinpoint whats going on.
I have a guest today who is an expert in this field. You, the public, may not know who she is. But those
of you who have been targeted and listen to my show know very well. Shes never been interviewed
before and I feel honored that shes here. Her name is Julianne McKinney. Shes had an extensive
career in the US Army as an Area Intelligence Case Officer till 1990.
Upon her return to civilian life Julianne became a member of the Association of National Security
Alumni. That is an organization of former intelligence officers dedicated to exposing excesses by the US
Intelligence Services. Julianne became the director of the Electronic Surveillance Project under their
auspices
as
such
she
authored
the
publication
Microwave
Harassment
and
Mind
Control
Experimentation in 1991. She kept that electronic surveillance project going for four years, funding it
with her own personal funds, obtained by her military benefits and pay.
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Julianne did not copy write her work and it is out in the public domain for the public good. Microwave
Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation, the public has taken her hard copy publication and
uploaded it to several thousand domain sites over the past 15 years. It is respected as one of the most
important publications on this subject. And with that, Id like to say hello, Ms. McKinney, how are you
today?
Julianne McKinney: Please dont call me Ms. McKinney (laugh).
Greg: Okay, can I say Julianne?
Julianne: Yes, Julianne.
Greg: Now, youre an expert in surveillance and electronic harassment. The first question I have is
that, in your observation, is there a wider scale of surveillance of average people, people with no threat
to national security, in your estimation?
Julianne: I would say that most of us targeted are not, and never have been, a threat. I think that
what happened initially, when these operations began probably 30 years, ago people were singled out,
perhaps, because of some affiliation, either direct or indirect, with the United States government, and
invited attention. But they were not singled out as being a threat; they were singled out as being
lucrative targets of experimentation.
In the past 15 years, since shutting down the Electronic Surveillance Project, primarily to seek
employment, which I did seek, and did obtain, I had occasion to observe many, many, many instances
of individuals in the corporate environment being singled out and targeted simply because they were
convenient targets of opportunity. And, I have to comment on something I heard you say
Greg: Okay
Julianne:
Early on you referred to the difficulty of establishing causation in order to pursue these
claims.
Greg: That, I might add, that was made is a legal sense, based on the fact that we were nave people,
not really understand I have to be honest with youI had not understood the problem back then,
and felt it would be a difficult problem, based on the fact of how the crime was committed and knowing
how to pin that crime on someone. Go ahead.
Julianne: I understand the legal implications, certainly. There is enough literature, on the internet and
elsewhere, that establishes the existence of these weapon systems. To pinpoint, for purposes of
prosecution, to pinpoint their existence would be difficult and the position I take is that rather than
pinpoint for prosecution purposes, easy enough to single them out by electronic means to destroy
them. But I guess thats taking the matter a little far left field.
I think, frankly, we still face, until congress establishes laws that forbid the use of these technologies
for involuntary experimental purposes, that were going to get absolutely nowhere in attempting to
prosecute.
Greg:
Okay, listen, I need to take a break Julianne. And well be back in three minutes on the
Investigative Journal.
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Julianne: Okay.
Greg:
Okay, back for the second half hour. My guest is Julianne McKinney. Shes an expert on
surveillance and electronic harassment. And Julianne, I gave you an introduction at the beginning of the
show.
Julianne: Yes
Greg:
A brief introduction. But I think our listeners would like to know your background and why
youre qualified to make these statements. I think its important.

Julianne: Okay.
Greg: If you could do that for us.
Julianne: Well, I would take exception to the term expert in these weapons systems.
Greg: Okay.
Julianne:
I certainly have had experience with them, having, for approximately the past 40 years,
been on the receiving end of this type of harassment. Expertise in surveillance comes with my
employment in the intelligence field. I understand what constitutes surveillance and am capable of
immediately spotting the surveillance and I can see, as in the case of gang stalking, a subject that you
have addressed on prior occasions. I can see those who I label as covert want-to-bes fumbling through
what they think are covert activities and Id find it really rather amusing if it werent so perverted in the
ultimate objective.
Im not certain what more I can add. I do have experience with these weapon systems. Ive had
sufficient opportunity over these past many years to observe the progressive threat of these
harassment operations. And Im talking specifically about electronic weapon systems.
Greg: Well, youve been a voice - I mean a strong voice - for warning people of these systems for at
least the past 10 years regarding the installation of specialized electronic equipment and utilities. What
are these electronics and what are their capabilities?
Julianne:
Their capabilities, generally, are to inflict pain in a highly focused fashion, and to alter
mental states. Certainly, when you have a frequency aimed at your brain, your mental functions tend to
alter. In amplified form, theyre sufficient, the frequencies are. They have the capacity to kill. Though
thats one reason the department of defense refers to them as less than lethal rather than nonlethal weapons. As a matter of fact, the Department of Defense has gone so far to eliminate them, to
remove them from the category of even less than lethal weapons to bury them in the category of
electronic weapons trying to make them a little bit blacker.
Greg:
Now is this protocol of surveillance and harassment seemingly patterned after a government
protocol now applied to the general civilian population?

Julianne:
Its difficult to pinpoint everything on the US government exclusively because these are
global operations.
Greg: Okay.
Julianne:
The pattern the protocols, are virtually identical on a global scale so someone is
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overseeing the entire activity. The government obviously is complicent because otherwise these
operations would not be allowed to exist. Why? Its hard to say. Whether its for testing electronic
weapon systems for future use under combat conditions or whether ultimately there's a holocaust. (nointelligible) Its hard to say.
Greg:
Well, you know what I find interesting.how people who arent aware of this problem cant
believe its happening to begin with. And I try to mentionI have run stories about the Duplessis
Orphans. Its a program thats been verified, that the government actually used money in Canada and
the United States to do medical testing on children, on adults. Ive talked to people on the POW issue,
one Dr. Joe Douglas, who has documented how, that our government has done allowed foreign
governments to do illegal experimentation on POWs. So why would people think that they wouldnt
allow it on just average citizens? Just in your mind. Do you have an answer for people?
Julianne: Why wouldnt they allow it?
Greg: Yeah, my thing is that they do it, theyre doing it. But some people that deny it cant believe
that our government would do something like this.
Julianne: I find, even among the community of, I hate using slang terms, but the term TI is common,
referring to targeted individuals. Those are people who know they are on the receiving end of electronic
weapon systems. And even amongst TIs, there is a perception in certain areas that our government
wouldnt do this; a case of not recognizing reality. First of all if this were not being done by our
government, congress would step in because of the hundreds of complaints they have received,
thousands of complaints, no doubt, over the past 10-15 years, from citizens who recognize whats going
on. Congress, back in the early 90s, late 80s, took the position that anyone complaining about these
systems were imagining things because they simply didnt exist. In two years, by 1992, they were off
the drawing boards, and in fact, being fielded and conveyed to law enforcement agencies.
Congress recognizes that these weapon systems exist and funds them, and knows, as a result of
appropriate briefings, what the bio-effects can be. Yet they have passed no legislation prohibiting their
use under unconstrained experimental circumstances.
Thats number 1. Number 2, given the nature, given the nature, given that the systems draw on
existing power grids, it would be necessary for the FCC at a minimum, and the Department of Energy,
as a minimum, give some oversight and control over what is going on. Though obviously, those with
Congress, the FDA and the Department of Energy, the FCC and the Department of Energy are
knowledgeable and yet unwilling to do anything about it. So, there is complicity, but the question is,
whos knitting, and submitting, the US government, allowing these operations to take place?
Greg: Now from your experience, how intense is this surveillance of targeted individuals? And tell us
about the ways that the targeted that this is accomplished.
Julianne: From what I have observed, first of all I should explain that the standard that I address this
in Microwave Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation, it was a pattern that was unfolding as I
was dealing with other targeted individuals whothat contacted me. It was a pattern of harassment
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which indicated that there had been some surveillance going on, some monitoring of their private lives.
There had been entry into their houses. There was systematic harassment. And then, ultimately, as part
of a softening up process, and then ultimately, electronic harassment, which followed; which would
include the inducement of auditory input, which is now being referred to as Z2K.
In answer to your question (laugh) Im not certain if I I think Im probably missing the point there,
but in order to target someone, it requires that that person be put under surveillance, so that their
personality traits, their capacity to inter- relate with people, their capacity for corruption or noncorruption, that seems to be a critical point. And even their religion factors into it.
Following a period of harassments, they are singled out for preliminary stages of harassment which
includes gang stalking, entry of their private homes or apartments, followed by gradually intensified
and ultimately extremely intensified electronic harassment. This is the pattern that has unfolder over
and over and over.
Greg:
And so, when you, I guess what Im getting atthats a very good answer. Youre seeing a
pattern amongst these individuals. I guessyeahis there any pattern about how they choose them?
Julianne: I cant speak for men. But it appears that quite a few of the women who have been singled
out appear to be somewhat, too independent; perhaps too intelligent. Tend to live alone or tend to
pursue professional careers. Theres a heavy predominance of those types of women in the TI
community, the community of targeted individuals. Men are in a smaller proportion and seem to be
those who have a propensity to fly off the handle. Have a sense of self-esteem and pride that seems to
invite targeting. And I did mention a curious predominance of a certain lack of religion amongst TIs, as
opposed to a certain predominance of a particular religion amongst those who are participating in these
operations.
Greg: Now you mentioned this was a global problem. Have you communicated with people from across
the Atlantic regarding whats going on in other countries? Is it similar to here?
Julianne:
Its virtually identical, virtually identical. When I was running the electronic surveillance
project I was in extensive correspondence with people overseas and patterns were the same. The
nature of the gang stalking and harassment were the same.
Greg: Now, when youre talking about specific numbers I know youreyouve been following this for
years and years and years. Is there any way that you can give our listeners a kind of an idea of how
wide spread this problem is in terms numbers in our country and compared to maybe overseas?
Julianne: I would say that the person who has realized what is going on is just a drop in a bucket. The
persons whom I have seen being targeted are completely unaware of whats happening. So those who
are complaining of this are, as I said, the tip of the iceberg. I would say this is very, very, widespread.
But I cannot under the circumstances come up with any figures. Many, many, many thousands, no
doubt, are involved. But I would say that the bulk of them are running to their doctors and taking
totally unnecessary prescription drugs to cure ailments that dont exist.
Gregg: I guess that you have to ask this question even though its very difficult to answer. And you
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mentioned, you said it earlier. But I really have to ask it because its on my mind and I know its always
in the back of everyones mind when they think of this problem. Why?? What is the major reason, I
mean, outside of just pure experimentation Im interested; for example, lets say that they have
targeted 100 people in Oklahoma. What do they, first of all, why are they doing it? Is it for, basically, a
blanket statement controlling the population? Orand, what do they do with this information once they
get it?
Julianne: I dont think they do anything with the information once they get it, other than to establish
a harassment protocol which will follow that targeted individual for the rest of his or her life. Why are
they doing it? I see a number of reasons. First, I dont know if youve done any research on the
phenomenon of capturing a percentage of the population in order to install a dictatorship. There is
always a percentage of the population, roughly 20% or so, that will buckle and throw whatever
constitutions might exist into the toilet and eagerly join the efforts at destroying the remainder of the
population.
Part of the problem or part of the objective they are seeking obviously is testing the latest and greatest
in electronic weaponry and other forms of technologies. A part of it is to control and choreograph those
who are involved in these harassment operations on the dispensing end. And it would appear that those
being targeted are simply objects who I see as ultimately being disposable. In other words, I think that
once full control is established over a major percentage of the population, and enough of the population
is silenced and unwilling to stick their necks out, that we inevitably would be heading toward a
holocaust.
Greg: The question, if I was, for example, lets say we have a person, who suspects, and lets just for
hypothetical purposes, say this person is being targeted, okay? Now, tell our listeners, because Ive
always wondered this myself, okay. Im sitting in my house and I see around me theres telephone
poles, there may be a tower in the distance that I dont see that handles the cell phones. Theres of
course a grid of electric going on around me. Ive talked to people and I try to say, how does this get
into your house? And I wanted to get your opinion, if a person is targeted, how basically are they
beginning to intrude their premises, and violate their constitutional rights, not only their rights ofnot
only trespassing on their property? Go ahead. How would that happen?
Julianne: Now, are you talking about, how would the frequencies impact upon them and how would
they first become aware of it? Or how would they first become aware of the fact that their privacy has
been violated?
Greg: Well no, I guess I didnt explain the question right. I wanted to know how they physically, are
doing it? I mean are they using a cell tower? Are they using a truck thats in the distance? How is this
being transmitted into the home to target the person and to use this weaponry on them, from your
experience?
Julianne: Well, first of all, in order to target a person you have to be able to see that person. And
while they may not be able to, they may, on entering the house, plant miniature cameras, miniature
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microphones, as a means of, for their monitoring a person. But that is not necessarily the means by
which they hone in on a person. There are plenty of technologies that allow for the imaging of a person
that might be sitting in a chair, as you mentioned you might be.
Using infrared imagery techniques, for example, they can capture your image by monitoring the
concentration of heat emanating from your body using certain acoustical frequencies, they can detect
mass. And using sophisticated computer software, they can convert those images to likenesses on
computers, which conceivably could be used in a software program that could be connected to an
electronic weapon system. And in that context I should point out that, while devices draw on the
existing power grid, and while theyyes indeed, they do involve microwave towers
Sounds like youve got a commercial coming on
Greg:
Yes we do, and thank you for making my job easier. Well be back in 3 minutes on the
Investigative Journal.
First, Ive put this in the top 3 of my stories that I believe are important, that the American people need
to deal with, because as Ms. McKinney, who is a, I consider her an expert. She would only say shes an
authority. But let me tell you, Julianne, you are an expert in this. The reasons could be, like she said at
thebefore we went into the break, and a total testing of our population to see, basically, perhaps
maybe there is a holocaust in the future or a dictatorship in the future. And they want to see how
people react to it. That may be a simplistic way to look at it. Not a simplistic way that Julianne looked at
it but my way of explaining it.
But lets get back to some of the things here, the last few minutes that are important. What can you tell
us, Julianne, about the microwave energy on citizens in terms of the existence of such a program and
the nuts and bolts of what they do?
Julianne:
Microwave energy is only one aspect of the entire electromagnetic frequency spectrum.
Microwaves can be lethal depending upon how theyre used. Obviously in order to achieve appropriate
effects on people, they have to be pulsed, because otherwise the individual would be cooked from the
inside out. The objective of using microwaves as opposed to other electromagnetic frequencies would
be to inflict extremes of pain to cause thermal heating. Thats a common complaint which leaves a hot
spot on the scull. Again, primarily, just to inflict extremes of pain. I was just wondering, we kind of
skipped over or didnt quite complete a preceding topic.
Greg: Oh, go ahead, go ahead. Youve got free reign.
Julianne:
You were talking about the use of the electrical grid throughout the country, the use of
microwave towers, the use of devices affixed to poles that are connected to power lines. But what
wasnt addressed, what you havent mentioned, is also that these weapon systems are used by
neighbors surrounding persons who have been singled out as targets of opportunity.
Greg: Are they solicited to do this or what?
Julianne: Thats something that Ive been pondering for some time. Again, what Ive noticed is, there
seems to be a predominant, particular religion that makes it particularly easy for them to cooperate.
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Greg: Well listen, lets talk about that after the break, a short break, and then Ive got something to,
some business I have to take care of for 3 4 minutes. Then well get back for our 2 nd hour with
Julianne McKinney. Well take some calls. Back in 2 minutes on the Investigative Journal.
(In this section there seemed to be jumping around, like maybe the video was edited or there was
some problem with the recording.)
by some of the Tis and thats Targeted Individuals.
That song rose to number one without any publicity on the internet. And that song called TI, well play
that again Dr. McKinney. I think it hits the nail on the head. I mean theres a lot of people out there
suffering. And I know youre one person, an authority in this field. And for my guests who are just
picking us up this hour, Dror excuse me, Julianne McKinney is a very highly regarded person in the
field of electronic weaponry, and surveillance in studying this issue. Shes a former area Intelligence
Case Officer until 1990 in the Army. And her credentials can be found, will be found, you can go to
RBNLive.com and go to my archives in the Investigative Journal and read about that. Shes well
qualified. Shes still with us this hour. And Dror excuse me, I keep calling you Dr. and you should be.
Julianne: (Laugh) Im not a Dr., thank you. Dr. Americus.
Greg: Dr. Americus. You know, thats funny. I have a doctorate in law. And nobody ever calls me that
and I hate being called that, a doctor. But Im interviewed on a Tehran TV station once every blue
moon, couple months, and they refer to me as Dr. Szymanski. And its nice to hear once in a while. Ill
be honest with you. Every two months is good enough. Otherwise they just call me the jerk on the
radio, which is better.
But, lets go from here. Youre adding such credibility to this story, adding credibility in my mind as I
speak. Because, Ive talked to hundreds of these people and was a doubting Thomas in the beginning. I
must mention that. I did not think it existed, and that was years ago. I thought people were either
insane, or crazy, or trying to get attention. But you know something? I will admit I was totally wrong
with that initialI guessthe look at the situation and have come around to fully believe in most of the
people I talk to and really sympathize with their suffering as I see their lives being ripped apart.
Are there any things you can dowere going to get into a few more things here as far as the technical
aspects of this but what can targeted individuals do to get some peace in their life? I mean thats one
thing theyre looking for. Is there anything they can do?
Julianne: (prolonged silence)
Greg: Difficult question there.
Julianne: Its very difficult to advise targeted individuals how to acquire peace. These frequencies can
be blocked or deflected. All of these frequencies I have found, some may contest this, but I have found
can beare vulnerable, and are subject to deflection. And the pain can be immediately (word unclear),
if not halted all together. Finding peace by writing to members of congress or to state legislators might
not be a better alternative because you will be treated as something worthy of the circular basket. They
just wont intervene. Writing to the various agencies and calling a meeting with them serves no useful
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purpose either because they will say there are no laws prohibiting these types of activities. They cant,
say for example, the FBIand I was given this statement on a number of occasions.there are no laws
prohibiting experimentation with these weapon systems. Youre talking to the wrong people.
So my advice would be to do what you can to secure your premises, because so long as your house is
or apartment is being entered, you are susceptible to, in addition to being targeted by electronic
weapons, there is a potential for having drugs put in your food. And Im not exaggerating there.
Greg: I had a few targeted individuals I talked to send me some questions that Id like to ask you.
Julianne: Certainly.
Greg: And the one was Are targeted individuals also broadcast around the country via closed circuit
TV? And, What purpose does this serve? Im fully in the dark on this question, but, go ahead.
Julianne: Okay. I have seen evidence of a closed circuit TV and it seems to be some form of
major source of entertainment and perhaps instruction for the individuals participating in
this harassment. I dont know who runs it. I have seen aspects of that on a large screen TV
across the street on which I saw surveillance films of a TI being harassed, obviously, in an
office environment. Gang stalked. Shows brain scans and is otherwise a very sophisticated,
sleek,
communications
operation.
Why
would
it
be
used?
As
said
either
for
entertainment, for creating a sense of unity, or for identifying persons, TIs, who are to be
harassed on the street. I mean, obviously you cant harass someone if you dont know what
that person looks like. So its a means of communicating to the perpetrators, perps, what the
TI looks like.
Greg: Okay, now, before I get to some more, I want to put out that call for people to call. I got a
couple emails. A lot of times Tis dont want to go public. And theyve sent me some emails. I want to
get to one in a minute. But one question I have for you is, how can people gather evidence to support
their beliefs that this is happening to them? Many people will say, well its only a lack of sleep. I mean,
you have a sleep disorder. Maybe theres a problem with your joints, I dont know. It could be anything
that the answers are when you suspect youre being targeted. What kind of evidence do you tell people
to gather to support their beliefs that this is actually happening to them.
Julianne:
Well, when youre gathering evidence, obviously you have an objective in mind and that
generally is legal. What you want to do with that evidence. Theres really nothing you can do with it. So
in the absence of that, the main thing is to try to protect yourself and to alleviate the pain that youre
experiencing. Collecting the evidence, if you were to go to, frankly, Id strongly recommend that you
keep your faculties together and avoid going to see psychiatrists and psychologists, because the pattern
that is evolving is that they are highly complicit of these operations.
And if you go to a medical doctor, you do not talk about it because medical doctors, many, are also
involved. What you do when you see a doctor is that you define your symptoms and get a very clear
statement that, well, we cant figure this out. Well, thats a clear indication that it is not indigenous,
its not part of your system. Its not coming from within you, so obviously something is happening from
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outside. If they prescribe drugs and yet cant find the ecology, the basis for your disease, dont take
those drugs.
Greg:
Now earlier we were talking about the fact that they may, whoevers doing this, youve
delineated, youve led a good course into whatyoure tracking these people. But what I was getting at,
we never got to the point where ifyou mentioned something about a religious group that may be
targeted. What did you mean by that?
Julianne: The way I dont.well let me put it this way. Im not out to start a religious war. I have
found over the years that the persons involved, both in gang stalking.Ive made it a point to get to
know these people. Ive had to necessarily. Im not the type to
Greg: Youre talking about the perpetrators or the targets?
Julianne: The perpetrators.
Greg: Okay
Julianne: As well as theIve been drawing distinctions. And what Ive found is that the perpetrators
appear to belong predominantly to one particular religion; whereas the targeted individuals do not
belong predominantly to that particular religion.
Greg: And what is the particular religion of the perpetrators?
Julianne:
Right. So, at this stage, again, Im not particularly enthused about the idea of starting a
religious war. And I have challenged other TIs to get out there and become acquainted with, and get to
know, the people who are harassing them, to draw those distinctions themselves, because Im not
going to be making brash claims. This is something Ive observed over the past 10 years.
Greg: Thats fair enough. And maybe, perhaps, I could talk to you about it just for my own knowledge
off the air.
Julianne: That would be fine.
Greg: And I will keep your name out of it at that point and let people know what the targeted group
may be and what the other group may be.
Julianne: There is a religious influence but thats not to say these people arent just being used as
puppets by some broader interest.
Greg: Very good point. Can you stick with us one more segment of 5 minutes?
Julianne: Okay.
Greg: Were interviewing Julianne McKinney, our last segment. Juliannes an authority in the use of
surveillance and electronic weaponry. And this is an email question, kind of a technical one from a TI.
Let me read this to you. Perhaps you can answer it. Are the protocols for each individual modified based
to custom tailor it for the specific targeted individual? And if so, how does this process work?
Julianne: Yes indeed they are modified. There is a basic protocol that the perpetrators begin with. But
the TI contributes to the modification. A good example of that would be, if someone. Im trying to
think of a good example. If the TI feels the need to cooperate, even in the most subtle fashion, with the
persons who are harassing him or her, he or she will modify his behavior, in pathlobean condition, which
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alters the protocol. Theyre constantly, targets are constantly monitored, and if they respond
emotionally to a particular trigger, that will be built into the protocol. If the target displays a certain
sense of guilt or embarrassment about a subject, that will be built into the protocol. Its an ongoing
process. And one thing I want to emphasize is no TI should look for a reason as to why this is going on.
Its a serious, serious mistake. I know I did that myself when they started on me and over the years I
came up with probably 6 different excuses.
Greg: Is it still going on with you?
Julianne: Oh yes. Not to the degree that it was before but certainly in very lethal form.
Greg: Now, how has this hampered your life?
Julianne: Its come close to being lethal on a number of occasions. I deal, I dealt with gang stalking
head on and I essentially put that to rest. I deal with.Ive developed a means for communicating with
perps directly and made them feel like the trailer trash that they are. So gang stalking is not one of
their favorite activities in my case. So the primary activity now is to see what I can survive in the way
of an induced brain aneurism or stroke or a heart attack.
Greg: I just had a caller who doesnt want to get on the air but wants to know, does moving help;
moving your location?
Julianne: Running, if youre talking about moving to a completely new location, no. This country is
wired to the hilt for immediate transfer. Your protocol follows you wherever you go so its a waste of
time. Moving about physically in place will not change anything. Other than, if you make a 180 degree
turn you will notice the targeting will suddenly stop because the weapon systems are programmed to
focus on a particular area of your anatomy. So if you turn, the targeting will suddenly end. If you turn
back itll hit you again.
Greg: Interesting. Now, going full circle in the last 2 minutes here, in 1991 you published Microwave
Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation. This has been passed around the internet and over
thousands of domain sites over the past 15 years. Can you tell us how someone can get ahold of this
publication to be informed?
Julianne: Its not copy-writed. All they need to do is plug in my last name, McKinney, and type in the
title Microwave Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation and innumerable sites will appear and
just read it from there. It will give you a good insight into what the pattern is when harassment begins.
Greg:
Now, let me just spell your name for people that are going to do that. Thats MCKINNEY
McKinney. And then its Microwave Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation for an authority in
the field.
I guess since 1981, have you seen.I guess a question I wanted to ask, from 2001, have you seen any,
from the time of 911, has there been an increase in the last 4or 5 years, with this type of, that youve
seen, in the number of people contacting you. Has it been more wide spread since 911?
Julianne: Not since 911. WhenI would say back in the early 90s Ive seen a tremendous expansion
of these activities since the early 1990s. And it has moved forward in consistent fashion. Its become
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ever more sophisticated and ever more wide spread. There was no sudden burst or flurry of activity
since 911.
Greg: And you have no help whatsoever with the political arena in this. Correct? Politicians will not
touch this with a 10 foot pole?
Julianne: Thats right. And even those who purport to be liberally inclined, and Im speaking about
members of the democratic party, will not touch it, because quote unquote, and they know, they know
whats going on. They dont they simply dont have the funds to be able to pursue it. All sorts of
humma humma excuses will be furnished for not pursuing something like this. Before you close.I hear
the music in the background.
Greg: We can stay another minute if you want.
Julianne: Okay.
Greg: Why dont you come back for 2 minutes on the other side of the break and then well finish up.
Okay?
Julianne: Okay.
Greg: Okay, back with Julianne McKinney and 3 minutes on the Investigative Journal. You wanted to
say something at the break.
Julianne: I did. I want to thank you very, very much for taking on this subject. There are so few in the
media, as a matter of fact, youre the only one I know of, who has the guts to address it.
Greg: And you know, it really doesnt just in defense of every other media person. I dont think its
guts, in a sense, maybe it is. I dont consider myself having guts in this issue. I consider it to be an
issue that you need to take time to understand it. And thats what I would recommend to the people in
the media that havent touched this issue. If it isnt being down right censored by someone above you,
at least take the time to talk, Ill spend time talking to you about it. Because it took me a little time to
figure it out. And, Ill tell you what, its people like you that need to be applauded because its your
efforts that are bringing this to the forefront. Youre laying the credibility on the line. But I thank you
anyway for your kind words.
And with that, I wanted to say goodbye to you. And were going to have to move on. And well have you
on again to talk about this. And thank you so much.
Julianne: And thank you so much.
Greg: And that was Julianne McKinney. And she is an authority in the use of electronic weaponry and
microwave weaponry and she was with us for the last hour and a half.
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Dr. Nick Begich Author and Expert Researcher

of Electromagnetic Weapons
Biography
Dr. Nick Begich is the eldest son of the late United States Congressman
from Alaska, Nick Begich Sr., and political activist Pegge Begich. He is well
known in Alaska for his own political activities. He was twice elected
President of both the Alaska Federation of Teachers and the Anchorage
Council of Education. He has been pursuing independent research in the
sciences and politics for most of his adult life. Begich received Doctor of
Medicine (Medicina Alternitiva), honoris causa, for independent work in
health and political science, from The Open International University for
Complementary Medicines, Colombo, Sri Lanka, in November 1994.
He co-authored with
Jeane Manning the
book Angels Don't Play This HAARP; Advances in
Tesla Technology. Begich has also authored Earth
Rising - The Revolution: Toward a Thousand
Years of Peace and and his latest book Earth
Rising II- The Betrayal of Science, Society and
the Soul both with the late James Roderick. His
latest work is Controlling the Human Mind - The
Technologies of Political Control or Tools for Peak
Performance. Begich has published articles in
science, politics and education and is a well
known lecturer, having presented throughout the
United States and in nineteen countries. He has been featured as a guest on thousands of radio
broadcasts reporting on his research activities including new technologies, health and earth science
related issues. He has also appeared on dozens of television documentaries and other programs
throughout the world including BBC-TV, CBC-TV, TeleMundo, and others.
Begich has served as an expert witness and speaker before the European Parliament. He has spoken on
various issues for groups representing citizen concerns, statesmen and elected officials, scientists and
others. He is the publisher and co-owner of Earthpulse Press. He served as Tribal Administrator/Village
Planner for the Chickaloon Village Council, a federally recognized American Indian Tribe of the
Athabascan Indian Nation for five years and served four years as the Executive Director of The Lay
Institute of Technology, Inc. a Texas non-profit corporation. Currently Begich consults for tribal
organizations, private corporations and others in a number of research areas.
Dr. Begich is a single person with five adult children, and four grandchildren.
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1
Covert Harassment Conference

1-2 October 2015, Berlin, Germany
2
3
Mind Control:
4
5
DR. NICK BEGICH

A Brave New World together with HAARP The Update
DR. BEGICH:
Hello, and thank you for being
here and thank you to Peter and the rest of the team for
putting this together.
8
9
Everyone hears me okay, yes?

Okay.
In the back?
Good.
10
All right.
I want to give a little bit of
11
background in terms of my interest in these areas.
12
those that don't know my family story, it really goes
13
back quite a ways.
14
For
My father was in the United States Congress in
15
the early 1970s during the Nixon Administration.
16
lost in a plane with Hale Boggs.
17
remember this if you've got a little bit of gray hair.
18
Hale Boggs was our House majority leader at the time,
19
one of the most powerful people in the United States
20
Congress.
21
strong dislike for J. Edgar Hoover, because he basically
22
read everybody's mail, tapped everybody's phones,
23
including the United States Congress, and then,
24
essentially, blackmailed political leaders to follow
25
whatever script he laid out.
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Some of you may
He was also a Warren Commissioner.
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He was
He had a
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1
Boggs was a pretty outspoken individual.
At
the time -- it was just before the second election of
Richard Nixon -- Boggs came to Alaska to work on my
father's campaign, which would have been his second term
in the United States Congress.
Boggs, before they flew out on October 16th,
three weeks before the second election of Richard Nixon,
began to talk about this scandal brewing in Washington,
DC.
In fact, that very scandal, had it unfolded a
10
little bit differently -- for those that remember, the
11
planes disappeared.
12
Three weeks later, Nixon's elected for his
13
second term.
14
the Watergate scandal broke.
15
office.
16
moved up again.
17
Rockefeller then slid into the Vice President's slot.
18
And then one of the old Manson women from the Charles
19
Manson days tried to assassinate Ford, which would have
20
put Rockefeller in the White House.
21
It wasn't too much long after that that
Ford moved up.
Agnew was thrown out of
Then Nixon resigned.
Ford
For those that don't remember,
What would have otherwise happened, most
22
likely, the election would have taken place.
23
would have won.
24
out at the same time.
25
controlled the Congress.
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Nixon
Agnew and Nixon would have been thrown

The Democrats would have
The Speaker of the House would
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have elevated to the Presidency.
have been in control.
happened and history tells us a lot about what really
happened there.
The Democrats would
But the opposite, of course,
Twenty years later there was a report, an
investigative report by a publication called "Roll Call"
in Washington, DC.
these various Congressional deaths.
crashes are kind of the hazard of political leadership,
10
That report was looking into all of

You know, plane
it seems like.
11
But in researching that, what they found in the
12
FBI files were a couple of telexes -- this goes before
13
FAX machines -- and telexes coming from California into
14
Washington, DC reported that two people had been found
15
at a crash site.
16
the FBI to determine whether they were credible.
17
follow-up telex came through saying, yes, they were.
18
That plane was never recovered.
19
officially; yet 20 years later, we find out, in fact,
20
there were.
21
Those sources were later looked at by

A
There were no survivors
So I know about conspiracies.
Conspiracies are
22
conversations that happen in a room like this when
23
there's a bunch of people standing on the outside who
24
might not agree with us.
25
the political life, even at the highest levels, things
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Mind Control
But the reality is, even in
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happen.
Maybe a few decades go by before the truth is finally
revealed.
Things happen that aren't easily explained.
So I have a strong motivation foundationally in
terms of how I approach controversial issues.
do it with fear.
years.
is the absolute adversary for getting anything
accomplished on this planet.
10
I don't
I've been doing this work for over 20
Fear isn't part of the equation.
In fact, that
My interest in these areas started with HAARP.
11
And how many in this room do not know anything about
12
HAARP?
13
Okay.
Well, that's a lot better than it used
14
to be.
15
Twenty years of this work and the work of others have
16
kind of brought this into the public.
17
All right.
It used to be the other way around.
So the first image -- I'm going to use HAARP as
18
sort of the backdrop as I move into the mind control,
19
mind effects-related technology.
20
in my part of the world.
21
know if -- maybe I've come the farthest for this
22
presentation.
23
appreciate the opportunity to inform people about this
24
subject.
25
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This is just an image
I come from Alaska.
I don't
But I appreciate being here and I
So HAARP is a large array, a field of antennas
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in Alaska, currently 180 antennas.
They're
approximately 20 meters tall.
which you can see, which is the very top of these
antennas.
concentrate radiofrequency energy into a relatively
small space.
They have a cross dipole,
And what these are designed to do is focus or
If you think about the energy of a flashlight,
for instance, or a torch, as they say here in Europe, I
shine that against the wall, the beam starts out small,
10
and then it broadens as you get further away from the
11
source.
12
The same is true with radiofrequency energy.
13
You can think about it as an inverted funnel starting
14
here at the transmitter and then spreading out and
15
getting thinner and thinner, less dense, which is why
16
the further you get away from radio broadcast antennas,
17
the weaker and weaker the signal.
18
With HAARP, the opposite occurs.
They have
19
figured out a way through what's called cyclotron
20
resonance, which would be focusing or concentrating the
21
energy.
22
like sort of a cork-screwing kind of motion that got
23
smaller and smaller as you move further and further away
24
from the transmitter.
25
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So if you could visualize it, it would look
So it concentrates that energy or focuses that
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energy so you can manipulate it in various ways.
the HAARP array, which was originally designed by a
gentleman, Bernard Eastlund, who's now deceased, was
intended to do a number of things as a weapons
application.
half the current size of the transmitter in Alaska.
can see the field of antennas.
90 antennas in the array.
9
10
And so
This is the earlier version when it was

You
In this case there were
And here's another image as they expanded the

array to 180.
11
And another image showing the array.
Now, they also upgraded the technology pretty
12
substantially over the years.
13
efficient.
14
much bigger effects.
15
So it became much more
So with a much smaller system you create
So what does it do?
Essentially, it's sending
16
energy or focusing energy up into an area known as the
17
ionosphere, which in this image in miles -- I apologize
18
for that -- is approximately 37 miles to 620 miles out
19
into space.
20
Now, this is a highly energized area.
If you
21
think about radiofrequency signals or shortwave signals,
22
they would come from the earth, they'd bounce off of us,
23
and then bounce back down to the earth to transmit over
24
large distances.
25
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The ionosphere also is an area that can be
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disturbed by solar radiation, radiation from the sun.
When it becomes destabilized, it interferes with
terrestrial communications of every kind.
So part of the idea in this technology was to
learn how to stabilize the ionosphere during these
periods or deliberately disrupt the ionosphere to
interfere with communications on a global basis.
8
9
Now, what caught my interest when I first

looked at this issue of HAARP was a very short article
10
in a publication, an Australian publication, that talked
11
about this big system in Alaska.
12
Now, I come from a family that's pretty
13
politically engaged.
14
Congress, my younger brother just finished a term in the
15
United States Senate.
16
politics a very long time.
17
Besides my dad being in the
My family's been involved in
Alaska is a very big region, but we're a really
18
small population; 700,000 people in our entire region.
19
And when you think about big projects, you know, you
20
think you know something about them.
21
Well, I'm reading about this project in my
22
state in a journal in Australia and I'm going, you know,
23
why doesn't anybody know about this?
24
25
And so I decided I would go in and look into

this issue independently.
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And I did.
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I picked up maybe
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30 articles and papers, design specifications, some
things, and with friends encouraging me to publish, I
published the first article that I had written on HAARP
back in 1994.
So it's been a very long time ago.
What also caught my interest was the idea that
they were primarily utilizing, in some applications,
extremely low frequency signals or ELFs.
signals that can be biologically active, can affect us
as human beings and in very specific ways.
10
These are
And in particular, certain applications of the
11
technology -- and this gives you sort of a graphic
12
illustration of the focus.
13
were given to me by the inventor, Bernard Eastlund,
14
prior to his passing.
15
publications and in some of our work.
16
kind of a graphic showing the radiofrequency from the
17
array, moving up into the ionosphere and focusing that
18
energy.
19
These view graphs, actually,
And we utilized them in our

So this gives you
His initial concept was to create a global
20
shield, to be able to utilize the natural magnetic field
21
lines that surround the earth, be able to punch energy
22
into this and then create this kind of global shielding
23
effect.
24
piercing that energy would be disrupted, like
25
satellites, intercontinental ballistic missiles,
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And the idea was that any electronic device
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virtually any electronic device that ran into this field
of energy that was being amplified would be destroyed.
Now, one of the other interesting parts of
this -- and this kind of shows that, again, utilizing
one of Eastlund's graphics.
line and then you see this cork-screwing energy going
around it.
southern polar regions into the northern polar regions.
And, in this case, they actually couple -- actually
10
utilize the energy on the ground to couple with the
11
natural energy, and then coming from the north to the
12
south, create this cork-screwing effect, which
13
accelerates the electrons and then creates this global
14
shield.
15
So you can see like a field
That energy naturally is occurring from the
Now, that was his initial concept.
And as a
16
concept, it caught the attention of a number of people
17
and eventually got funding from the Congress, initially
18
at 30 million, and over the last few decades now over
19
almost 300 million, which in dollars is not a lot of
20
money, but when you consider, this is sort of the
21
pinnacle of billions of dollars spent in ionosphere
22
research over many decades.
23
What caught my attention in terms of the
24
technology of Eastlund -- I'm going to skip some of
25
these that are not so relevant -- was the idea that you
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could manipulate the ionosphere -- and I'll use this as
a better example.
you could punch or pulse energy into the ionosphere --
so think about this energy going up and, like, a hammer
ringing a bell.
ionosphere itself vibrates and then it begins to send a
signal in the ELF range.
signal going up, punching the ionosphere, the ionosphere
which is energized then acts as a broadcast antenna in
So one of the thoughts was that if
Every time it hits that ionosphere, the
So you have a high frequency
10
the sky bringing back an ELF signal to the earth, and in
11
this case covering an entire hemisphere.
12
Now, ELF signals, extremely low frequency
13
signals, are very long wavelengths.
14
earth and sea.
15
submarines, as an example, the depth, because short
16
wavelengths won't penetrate the earth and sea.
17
also used for what's called earth-penetrating
18
tomography, which in simple language or by analogy would
19
be like x-raying the earth or looking into the earth for
20
underground structures.
21
They penetrate the
They're utilized for communication with
They're
But one of the side effects of ELF is the
22
entrainment effect on the human mind.
23
signals will lock onto in what's called a frequency
24
following response.
25
techniques to create a frequency following response.
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Because ELF
And you can use a lot of different
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You can use flickering light, you can use binaural beat,
which I'll explain in a few minutes.
electromagnetic fields such as this, or even the power
grid itself can be modulated in such a way to create a
signal that the human body will join with, will couple
with, and begin to follow.
of energy to accomplish this.
You can use
It doesn't take a great deal
This is the one that triggered my real interest
in HAARP, because this is the one that everybody kind of
10
ignored and said, oh.
11
well, if ELF has a biological effect, it's a side
12
effect.
13
phrase earlier today.
14
believe that it's an intended consequence.
15
intended to grade populations in very specific ways.
16
In fact, the HAARP planners said,
It's an unintended consequence.
We heard that
But I don't believe that.
It's
Now, this book was mentioned by my friend
17
earlier today, "Between Two Ages", by Zbigniew
18
Brzezinski.
19
written, actually, in 1973, when Brzezinski was at
20
Columbia University.
21
Security Adviser to President Carter.
22
the time that Kissinger and he and others were starting
23
to think about the Trilateral Commission organizing this
24
think tank, so to speak.
25
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And why this is an important book, it was
This is before he became National
Now, find this book.
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This is around
I really encourage you to
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find this book and read it, because it is not a
prediction of what will come with technology.
blueprint, in fact.
It's the
You can read this.
When I first read it -- he writes in a pretty
convoluted style.
English to understand.
read it because he predicted the economic changes that
took place, the political changes that took place in the
world over the last 40 years with a great deal of
10
accuracy.
11
prediction.
12
It's a little difficult even in

But I really encourage you to
And some will say it really wasn't the

It was the plan.
If you look within this text between Pages 54
13
and 56, you'll see a section that's dedicated to the
14
kind of technologies we're talking about today, a mind
15
control technology.
16
guy named J. F. Gordon MacDonald.
17
geophysicist at UCL.
18
chapter in a book and the chapter was called, "How to
19
Wreck Your Environment", which this is before Earth Day,
20
okay, so he could get away with that.
21
that book was actually published.
22
caught Zbigniew Brzezinski's attention was, he said, if
23
we could ever figure out how to electronically stroke
24
the ionosphere in just the right way, we could return a
25
signal to the earth that would influence the behavior of
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And what Zbigniew referenced was a

And he was a
He wrote a book -- or, actually, a
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It was 1969 when
But what he said that
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people over huge geographic areas.
Now, that's a pretty profound thing.
But we
didn't have a way to stroke the ionosphere in 1969.
we did by the 1990s.
fact, the HAARP system that can accomplish this.
But
And that was, in fact, and is, in
So the idea was -- and it was kind of, in a
gross sort of way, primitive, if you will, but what the
intention was, was that if you could pulse the
ionosphere, return this ELF signal to the earth, you
10
could agitate the population in very specific ways.
11
could make them passive, less aggressive, or the
12
opposite by just amplifying that signal.
13
explain a little bit of that as we go on.
You
And I'll
14
The other person that comes out in the last
15
presentations, Jose Delgado, and this book he wrote,
16
"Physical Control of the Mind:
17
Society".
18
images that you saw in just this short video clip of
19
Delgado's work, there is a good section in this text as
20
well showing that.
21
Toward a Psychocivilized
And this is, again, a 1960s book.
But in those days they used implants.
Those
They had
22
to physically put something in the brain.
23
Delgado originally did -- he was actually educated in
24
electrophysiology at the University of Madrid.
25
graduated in 1950.
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And what Jose
He
Electrophysiology, as a degree
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field, thinking about it in 1950, now 65 years ago, most
people don't even realize that's an area of higher
education today, much less that far back.
One of my mentors, Raul Makayla (phonetic), he
actually graduated University of Madrid in 1958, and his
area of interest was, essentially, the same, biomagnetic
and electric fields, effects on human physiology, and he
spent his career studying that.
Delgado, at Yale University, he initially was
10
mapping the brain of primates and humans by stimulating
11
various portions of the brain to figure out what was
12
responsible for what kind of activity.
13
began to utilize the implants in those dramatic ways in
14
those film clips with the charging bull and he throws
15
the switch and the bull stops, to demonstrate that you
16
could take a creature from passive to highly aggressive
17
to passive to highly aggressive, just like flipping on
18
and off the lights in your living room.
19
And then he
What Delgado discovered by the mid-'80s is that
20
you didn't need any implants.
You just needed to
21
manipulate the energy itself.
And you didn't need a
22
great deal of energy.
23
Now, we've heard -- I forget the amount of
24
energy surrounding us now.
25
believe it was 18 zeros after the one that we heard
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Was it a quintillion?
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earlier.
radiofrequency energy alone, it was 200 million times
more around us every day than nature created in 1994.
Back when I wrote the HAARP book in '94, just
Now, when you think about it, what did Delgado
discover?
of energy in the natural background noise of the earth
was sufficient to manipulate the behavior of human
beings if you could hit the right frequencies, if you
could hit those window frequencies that stimulated that
10
He discovered that one-fiftieth of the amount
kind of activity.
11
Now, if you think about this -- again, by
12
analogy, think about dialing through the radio stations
13
on a radio.
14
noise, the static, you get no clear signal.
15
you have resonance between the transmitter and the
16
receiver, then you get a nice, clear signal.
17
The same is true in our physiology.
18
you're looking at stimulating or affecting a specific
19
element in the body, molecules in the body, cell
20
structures or organ structures or even the human mind,
21
it's about manipulating the underlying energy.
22
In between the stations you get the white

But when
Whether
When you think about medical science in terms
23
of how the fork in the road is and how this kind of
24
applies to why don't we know more about this today,
25
well, there's lots of literature now.
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25,000 sources, I
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think we heard quoted earlier today.
25,000 sources
talking about the energy interactions with the human
body.
That is a lot of information.
But what happened in medical science?
A lot of
people that went into life sciences, they were really
good in the chemistry, a little weak in the math, so
they went to life sciences.
better in the math, they went to physics.
upon a time, these two came together and we got
People who were a little

And then once
10
biophysics, which is really the root of real health
11
science.
12
you've got to get to the energetic interactions that
13
create chemical reactions that then manifest in the
14
body.
15
If you really want to get to the meat of it,
And that's what we kind of miss in so much of
16
our medicine.
17
opposed to an electromagnetic model.
18
to World War II, that fork in the road was being
19
explored pretty aggressively, the energetic models.
20
they were somehow lost in that shuffle and we ended up
21
with the pharmaceutical industry, and the results of
22
that, I think we can all not be quite so proud of.
23
We followed a pharmaceutical model as

In the '30s, prior
But
In terms of where the technology is going and
24
where a lot of the science is going, it will be
25
electromedicine that cures most of what we call
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incurable.
debilitates human consciousness itself.
It will also be that which enhances or
Now, Jose Delgado, when he figured out that you
didn't need implants, you just need to manipulate the
energy itself, this became kind of the essence of sort
of where everything went from there.
But I want to roll back a little bit, a little
bit back in time, and talk more about the evolution of
mind control as technology starting with the work at
10
Harvard University of a gentleman, Estabrook, who was
11
working in the Harvard hypnotherapy labs in the 1920s.
12
You can look Estabrook up.
13
of Congress and you'll see his list of publications, and
14
I recommend that you do that.
15
Look him up at the Library
What he decided was that you could create what
16
we would call today a Manchurian candidate.
17
take certain individuals, put them in a very, very deep
18
state of hypnosis and then over a period of time train
19
them so they would be like this super spy that you could
20
send into another country and they'd hang out for a year
21
or two, but if they got captured, they wouldn't really
22
remember any of their former self, and then when they
23
came back, in this case, into the United States, that we
24
would then give them the appropriate suggestions and
25
then extract the intelligence from them.
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You could
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And this is what Estabrook was working on.
By
the 1930s, a lot of his work was being classified and he
continued to work in this field up through the 1960s.
His last book -- and I always like to read the last
thing someone writes, you know, because it tells you a
lot about, sort of, the conclusions and there are things
that you might discard bits and pieces as science
enlightens you and your experience enlightens you.
what he talked about in that last book were the
10
experiments he was involved in using LSD and other
11
hallucinogenics in mind control, which he actually
12
talked about in a favorable sense.
13
And
And for those of you that remember, the CIA was
14
heavily involved in this in the 1960s and, in fact, the
15
whole area pre-1960s going back even to the Korean War,
16
which is sort of my next mark on the timeline.
17
The Korean War, we had prisoners, patriotic
18
young Americans come back from war and they're handing
19
out Communist leaflets on street corners, and the term
20
or the phrase brainwashing came into being.
21
where it came from.
22
after the Korean War.
23
That's
It came from that series of events
The idea of being able to manipulate people's
24
behavior and change them so profoundly became of
25
interest to the predecessor of the Central Intelligence
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Agency and then later the Central Intelligence Agency.
And what they looked at were lots of different ways to
manipulate human behavior.
Now, when I was researching my first book with
Jeane Manning, "Angels Don't Play This HAARP", I was
looking for a good source document that would speak to
this, because you always read about this in secondary,
tertiary sources.
surplus book room, and I'm telling this guy that I know,
And so I'm in a book room, a big
10
I really need this source.
11
conversation, I reach unconsciously behind me into a box
12
and I pull out this book.
13
And as I'm having this
This is a really interesting one.
This is
14
actually a presidential report.
15
was commissioned at the time, 1975, to look at the
16
abuses of the CIA.
17
Committee reports, which were Congressional hearings
18
that took place in the early '70s to investigate the
19
abuses of the Central Intelligence Agency, the kind of
20
abuses that we read about today, because nothing really
21
changed.
22
This is a report that
Now, this came out of the Church
Supposedly, this was to change things.

Now, what's in this report?
The LSD
23
experiments were in this report.
24
Intelligence Agency was domestically infiltrating civil
25
rights groups, antiwar groups, people that, essentially,
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The idea the Central
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opposed the government within the United States, which
was not part of their mandate, in fact, was illegal.
The fact that they were reading people's mail, utilizing
unwitting victims and experiments for mind control.
of this came out in this report in 1975.
CIA continues to do it even to this day.
All
And yet, the
Think about the kinds of activities that have
been reported pretty widely over the last few years,
whether it's digging through garbage to blackmail other
10
diplomats, which is something our Intelligence community
11
does, whether it's to send pallet loads of money into
12
countries like we did in Afghanistan to bribe officials
13
as a way of doing business, or whether it's to
14
assassinate people with drones, kidnap people and
15
torture them.
16
Now, most of us don't know people like this,
17
but this is the government that I unfortunately have
18
guiding my country right now.
19
criminals.
20
couldn't happen here.
21
It's a government of
Now, people want to talk about, oh, this
It has happened here.
It's happened for
22
decades in the United States.
23
President's Commission touches the very tip of that
24
iceberg.
25
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This report by the
This is another document.
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This is -- this guy,
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Captain Tyler, he later became a colonel and retired.
He was involved in pretty much the sort of esoteric side
of some of the government research.
chapter out of this book is called, "Low-Intensity
Conflict and Modern Technology".
Maxwell Air Force Base in 1984.
about a large -- a variety of technologies.
8
9
This book -- this
It was prepared by
And it was talking
But in this particular one, if you look at,

certainly, the subject lines, you have stimulation of ,
10
bones* generation, healing of fractures, treatment of
11
disease, healing of wounds.
12
modification in animals.
13
that are listed here were kind of under the mysterious
14
category.
15
happening in 1984.
16
You look at behavior
You know, some of these things
They couldn't really explain what was
But the idea was to stimulate research in these
17
fields.
18
started to flow into these areas.
19
that came out in the 1980s as a result of some of this
20
was the Radiofrequency Dosimetry Handbook.
21
big, thick handbook.
22
of Utah under contract to the United States Air Force to
23
determine the radiofrequency dosages that were required
24
to override every vital organ of the human body, whether
25
it be the heart, the liver, the lungs, the kidneys, just
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So a number of things happened.
A lot of money
One of the reports
It was a
It was produced by the University
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sort of preempt their natural function to be able to do
it remotely.
And the idea was to take that leap of
technology and begin to apply it into weapon systems.
Mind control.
you will remember this one.
Yeah, 2002.
about the ethics of mind control.
it exist or doesn't it exist?
"The Economist".
Cover story.
Some of
This is 2002, I believe.
And what this cover story was about was

Not saying, hey, does
It's just saying it's
10
here right now.
11
we should advance this technology, whether we should
12
limit this technology.
13
credible publication.
14
story.
15
We really need to be debating whether
"The Economist" is certainly a

Not too much happened from this
This is -- unfortunately, it's not showing up.
16
November -- you can get this one on my website.
17
give you my website, because this is a very important
18
document.
19
human experiments.
20
in history, that's like tomorrow and yesterday, right?
21
It's, like, now.
22
mind control experiments and who has the authority to
23
approve them.
24
approve them is under secretaries of the Navy in the
25
case of Navy Intelligence or Naval research.
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I'll
The Navy set up a new set of regulations for

It was approved in 2006.
You know,
And in this they specifically call out
And the persons with the authority to
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Now, it's not just CIA.
Naval Intelligence
does this work.
non-lethal weapons that this falls under.
has the electromagnetic directorate, which is working in
an area called controlled effects, which deal, again,
with mind control and physiological effects on human
beings.
"Technology Horizons".
issue.
10
The Marines have a section on

The Air Force
In fact, they publish a publication called

I believe it's the June 2004
You can look it up.
The cover story is on
controlled effects.
11
Now, what are controlled effects?
The first
12
effect is attacking hardware; you know, like equipment,
13
like machines, to be able to interfere with the flow of
14
electrons through circuits to disrupt those machines to
15
operate.
16
history, but using energy itself to manipulate hardware.
17
Not using bombs and bullets and the things of
The second sort of level of controlled effects
18
talked about in that article is the idea of manipulating
19
the software, the systems that run those systems, so
20
that you can disrupt the software, then you disrupt the
21
hardware, and things collapse.
22
And the third leg of controlled effects is the
23
human operator.
24
article produced by the electromagnetic director of the
25
Air Force is that we can target or create the illusion
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And what they say in this particular
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of all of the senses in the human body; sight, sound,
touch, taste, to give people complete memory sets,
complete experiential sets that you wouldn't be able to
distinguish the synthetic from the real.
Now, think about that for a moment.
What does
that do to court testimony in 20 years if this becomes
the norm?
post-traumatic stress syndrome folks, people coming back
from warfare.
They're now talking about using this for
This just sort of cleans up the garbage
10
of the mind and gets rid of that stress.
11
think that's a great idea.
12
the biggest mistake we could ever make.
13
whatever those servicemen and women were engaged in --
14
what used to happen in warfare -- what happened in World
15
War II when everybody came back, they said, I don't ever
16
want to see my children in these things, I don't want to
17
see my grandchildren in these things.
18
put down, not amplified.
19
Some people
Personally, I think that's

Because
Wars need to be
When you take the human factor out of warfare
20
and it becomes like a videogame, then our willingness to
21
withdraw from direct conflict no longer happens.
22
And think about where our military science has
23
gone.
In fact, I want to mention another very important
24
publication.
25
in the early 1980s.
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It was produced by the US Army War College

It's called the "Revolution of
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Military Affairs and Conflict Short of War".
particular paper was talking about revolution of
military affairs.
And this
What is that exactly?
This is a leap as important as the introduction
of gunpowder in the middle ages in Europe, as important
as atomic weapons in the last century.
they characterize it.
where we move from ordinance, from bullets, bombs,
things that rip tissue and tear things up, to
And that's how
And what this is is the leap
10
electromagnetic weapon systems that keep sort of the
11
hardware intact, but debilitate the human operator to
12
the point of being combat ineffective.
13
enhance the possibilities within our own combatants
14
while degrading the abilities of others.
15
Or conversely,
There's simple ways that you can achieve this.
16
You can introduce to the battlefield certain elemental
17
compounds that in small background amounts would not be
18
considered dangerous.
19
example.
20
body to maintain thyroid function.
21
much iodine, you'll get poisoned.
22
get sick.
23
Let me give you iodine as an
We all need a certain amount of iodine in the
So what can you do?
But if you have too

You'll die.
You'll
You can send a signal in
24
that resonates the very same signal strength and
25
frequency as iodine, you can send that signal in and the
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body will begin to react as if its gotten this massive
load of iodine and show all the symptoms of iodine
poisoning.
You check the thyroid; check the blood, it's
not there.
Mystery illness.
Something as simple as that for manipulating
large populations, not necessarily with their consent
and not necessarily with clear knowledge, and nothing
shows up in the background that would say why this
poison actually exists that would account for this.
10
simple way.
11
One of the other ways that this technology can
12
be exploited is really quite simple.
13
article produced by "Parameters", which is a military
14
publication.
15
the -- I believe it was the Fall 1998, but you can look
16
up the article name called, "The Mind has no Firewall".
17
It's a very important article.
18
about all the various ways in which you could introduce
19
mind effects or mind control technologies using modern
20
technology today.
21
written in a military journal called "Orienteer"
22
published in what is now Russia.
23
"Parameters".
There was an
You can look it up.
It's
This article talked
And the original article was actually
What's interesting about this is it said you
24
could use any electromagnetic carrier, whether it be
25
radio, TV, the Internet, now cell phones; but,
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essentially, any of these carriers, you can modulate a
signal on them that will manipulate behavior of segments
of the population.
And the Russians demonstrated this in a couple
of different ways.
There was a program.
It was called
"Undercurrents".
Canadian Public Broadcasting System.
did two really interesting stories that I got to
participate in.
It aired in the CBC, which is the

"Undercurrents"
One was on HAARP and the other was on
10
mind control.
And on the mind control story that they
11
did -- this was a very popular program in Canada at the
12
time and this particular segment was their highest rated
13
that they had ever run.
14
who were involved in the "Star Wars" initiative during
15
the Reagan Administration that couldn't talk about what
16
they did in the White House, but they could talk about
17
what they observed in Russia.
And they had folks that came in
18
And one of the things that they talked about
19
was the idea that you could -- you could create, sort
20
of, this white noise and on this white noise carry a
21
signal.
22
cake.
23
these little cakes?
24
of Europe as well.
And so they put out this message, bring us

And Russians at tea time, you know, they eat
25
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I guess you do that in other parts
And so at the appointed time they began to
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broadcast this.
and on the street were bringing cake into the meeting
room without really knowing why they were doing it.
They just felt like doing it.
what they were programmed to do.
And workers from within that building
Now, this goes back.
Well, that was, in fact,
We're talking about
15-year-old technology.
And when you think about sort
of where did it go from there, in 2006, there were a
couple contracts left by DARPA, which does research for
10
the defense industry in the United States.
And DARPA
11
used to be run by a guy named Tony Tether.
Tony Tether
12
was a good friend of Ben Eastlund's.
13
Now, what they were doing then was, they had
14
left two contracts to the University of California for
15
what's called electronic telepathy.
16
telepathy.
17
a distance by analyzing the emanations coming from this
18
area, being able to analyze that and determine and
19
interpret what it is.
20
contract was to create complex signals to see if you
21
could transfer that array, so to speak, of signals into
22
another person's consciousness and whether they would
23
perceive the same images.
24
25
Okay.
Electronic
The idea of reading another person's mind at
And then the other half of the
Now, there was work done by Elizabeth Rauscher

and her late husband, Bill Van Bise, in this very same
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area.
In fact, I have a copy of their unpublished paper
where they actually built an electronic circuit where
they could take a person in one room and a person in
another room, attach this person to that circuit and
this person to that circuit, and then, you know, the
psychic card where they show the triangles, the squares
and the circles and the little squiggly lines, a hundred
percent accurate with nine test subjects who had never
experienced consciously in any way any sense of
10
extrasensory perceptions or psychic perceptions.
11
did it with hardware, transferring thoughts from one to
12
the other.
13
They
Now -- which tells me it's probably a little
14
more simple than what DARPA's doing.
15
Eastlund was doing work on HAARP and he was doing other
16
work for DARPA at the time and we had talked about him
17
in our first publication, and then actually after
18
publication became friends, and Ben Eastlund's attitude
19
was, you know, some things just shouldn't be done.
20
one of the things that he had been working on was
21
whether modification technologies, which he was at that
22
time and when we first met, making that technology
23
available to the military.
24
us and others, he decided there's certain technologies
25
that are not safe in the hands of military.
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But when Ben
And
And after some dialogue with
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At one point along the course I began doing
quite a bit of work on this whole mind effects issue.
And I caught the attention of a woman, Dorothy Lay.
Now, Dorothy is one of the heirs to the Lay, as in
Frito-Lay and PepsiCo Corporation.
family.
specifically as it applied to victims.
So a very wealthy
Dorothy was very interested in this technology
And so she approached me at one point and asked
if I would become a member of her board of directors for
10
a non-profit that she was setting up to deal with these
11
kinds of technologies.
12
whether I should tell you the rest of this story, and I
13
think I will, because why not?
14
And I've got to think about
So I have this thing, intuition.
All of us
15
have it.
16
do today.
17
listen, because when I really think about it, it's never
18
been wrong.
19
about it.
20
start acting on it.
21
I used to not pay as much attention to it as I

When my intuition tells me something, I
Neither has yours, if you really think

Or maybe you don't think about it and just
So my intuition said -- and this was a very
22
difficult time for me in 2002.
23
betrayed by a very good friend, economically was
24
bankrupt in the middle of this work, because I started
25
this work in '94.
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In 2002, I had been
Economically was being crushed.
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at that point I was deciding whether I was going to stay
in this work at all.
And I'm going through a bunch of my files and I
see this file and it's marked Lay.
person had contacted us needing some information and we
provided it.
way we operated is, I sold books.
bought my books.
And I remember this
And we never charge for that.
I mean, the
And people like you
And they allowed me to do this work.
I didn't write for grants where somebody could
10
manipulate me and control me and tell me what to say.
11
didn't go out and find some publisher that would edit
12
out my work.
13
book.
14
that work by buying that book.
15
two and a half million dollars and I spent that two and
16
a half million dollars over 20 years doing what I'm
17
doing right now.
I risked my own money.
I published my
And then I asked people to help me by supporting
18
A VOICE:
19
(Applause.)
20
DR. BEGICH:
And I tell you, I made
Thank you.
And the whole idea was just to
21
educate.
22
reason I didn't was because I felt that that was putting
23
the cart before the horse.
24
people that the technology is real, that this could
25
really happen to people and from that foundation, and
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I didn't deal with victims.
Okay.
And the
We first need to educate
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that became the foundation of my work in this.
So Dorothy calls me on the phone and she says,
will you be on my board?
an hour.
on your board.
And I talked to her for about
At the end of the hour, I said, no, I can't be
She said, well, why not?
I said, because my intuition is telling me I
really can't be on your board.
And she goes, well, I deserve more than that.
10
I said, okay.
I don't know your board members,
11
I don't know who your board is, but something in here is
12
saying there's a problem there and I don't want to be
13
associated with them.
14
(Applause.)
15
DR. BEGICH:
16
I got the call back.
17
you have millions.
18
what they say they're doing.
19
being done and find out for yourself.
20
diligence again.
21
So it was a couple of months later

Because I told her also, I said,
You have the ability.
And she did.
Go see if it's really
back and she said, you were right.
23
me a number of ways.
24
just me now and my attorney.
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Do your due
A couple months later she came
22
25
Go research
They were defrauding
I've cleared out my board.
It's
Will you be on my board?
Now, bear in mind, I'm in a pretty desperate
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situation economically.
At the time I have five
children at home.
have an economy that I've got to manage.
Dorothy, no, I can't be on your board.
I've got people to take care of.

And I tell
She says, well, why not?
I said, well, I need to meet you first in
person, eyeball to eyeball.
for three days.
foundation.
I said, we're going to talk
We're not going to talk about your
I want to know everything I'm ever going to
10
read about you and your family in the newspaper.
11
you to have the same knowledge level of me.
12
to know what your world view is before I join with you
13
in achieving that world view, because you have the means
14
and I have the willingness if that world view is shared.
15
So we spent a few days.
I want
And I want
We decided that I
16
could do this.
17
And we put together, as her major effort was, a
18
conference on mind effects.
19
public.
20
bring some key people together to have a conversation
21
that would be open and free.
22
And for four years I worked with her.
But it wasn't open to the
It was closed to the public.
And it was to
And one of those people I invited was Ben
23
Eastlund, who by then I'd gotten to know, had watched
24
what he had done in terms of his career.
25
connected with DARPA at the time.
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He was well
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And I called him and I said, you know, Ben,
would you consider participating in this conference?
And he said, you know, if you had asked me this
seven or eight years ago, on a scale of one to ten, ten
being the relevance and importance of this, and one
being irrelevant and unimportant, I would have given
this a one or a two.
time I talk to Tony Tether or others at DARPA, nobody's
laughing about mind control anymore and it's a nine or a
10
He goes, but -- he goes, every
ten and, yes, I'll participate in your conference.
11
The next person I asked was Garth Nicolson.
12
Does that name ring any bells for anybody?
13
Nicolson was a full professor, I believe it was Texas
14
A&M.
15
thousand medical students.
16
whistle on Gulf War Syndrome and testified in our
17
Congress six times before his wife was fired as a
18
molecular biologist from Texas A&M.
19
they couldn't fire him.
20
him, because he was one of the first courageously enough
21
to step up to the plate and complain about what had been
22
happening in the Gulf War; we depleted uranium and some
23
of the other technologies that were being applied there.
He taught medical students.
24
25
Okay.
Garth
He taught over a
He was the guy that blew the
And he was tenured;
But they definitely harassed
Well, the best thing that ever happened to him

was he got out of the university system.
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He formed a
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nonprofit to deal with chronic disease.
somebody that I watched maintain his course under really
difficult circumstances.
conference.
And he was
So he was invited to that
I invited the daughter of my mentor, Raul
Makayla.
one of the boards in Russia that regulates medical
applications of lasers.
Quite brilliant.
10
She's an electrophysiologist.
She serves on
She's an electrophysiologist.
We invited her.
We invited Rosalie Bertell.
11
remember Rosalie Bertell?
12
passed.
13
physicist, biologist.
14
doctoral students at Berkeley.
15
It's kind of an odd combination.
16
statistician to go in to Bhopal for the World Health
17
Organization after that huge chemical disaster.
18
was considered one of the top people in the world for
19
dealing with victims of radiological experiments,
20
including electromagnetic radiation.
21
some of our work and added to it and published a book on
22
the HAARP system and its effect on human beings on this
23
sort of broad scale.
24
been through some really difficult times as well, rose
25
out of her own ashes and maintained her ethical
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Okay.
Does anyone
Also deceased now.
A few.
Rosalie's
She was a mathematician,
She taught higher mathematics to

She was also a nun.
She was the lead
But she
She actually took
So we had invited Rosalie, who had
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platform.
The other person we invited was Alexander
Kaivarainen.
Does anybody recognize that name?
He was
the former head of the USSR Academy of Science
Biophysics Department for ten years.
area that really gets into the meat of what we're
talking about here today.
believe, is deceased now also.
guys, you know, they're a lot older than me and they
And this is the
Now, what got -- Alex, I

You know, all these
10
keep dying of old age.
11
science at a young age watching a demonstration of the
12
paranormal, ESP, telepathy, these kinds of things in
13
Russia when he was a teenager.
14
caught his interest.
15
But Alex got his stimulation in
And it just really
When I met Alex, he was in his 60s and he was
16
the brightest top five physicists on the planet,
17
recognized by institutions around the world.
18
he had determined is that there were rational reasons
19
for why these things manifested.
20
this conference and actually presented a paper giving
21
the mathematics and the physics that lends itself to
22
these extrasensory possibilities, these things that the
23
military now calls anomalous human capabilities.
24
used to call it extrasensory perception or ESP, but now
25
they give it a new name because there's a lot of
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And what
So he was invited to
We
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connotations with that that kind of get you discredited
in certain segments of the scientific community.
So I want to talk -- roll back again a little
bit -- I want to talk about binaural beat, which I had
mentioned earlier in this presentation.
around a little bit.
not even use these things, but I think people feel more
comfortable using them.
And I jump
It's kind of my style.
The binaural beat.
I used to
We can't hear these really,
10
really low frequency signals, because the human ear
11
doesn't quite work that way.
12
the human ear won't hear.
Below a certain frequency,
13
Now, a gentleman by the name of Robert Monroe
14
developed a method using binaural beat where you could
15
send in a signal within the range of human hearing, say,
16
at 15,000 Hertz or pulses per second or cycles per
17
second, coming in one ear at, say, 15,000, another
18
signal coming in the other ear at, say, 15,007.
19
the cranium they will cancel each other out and leave a
20
beat frequency of seven, the difference between the two.
21
15,000, 15,007.
22
seven pulses per second, which happens to be in the
23
upper Theta range, and this is where the brain then
24
drives to.
25
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Within
The beat frequency becomes seven Hertz,
At the same time that that occurs, you get a
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hemispheric balance, a distribution of energy across
both hemispheres of the brain, the analytical side and
the creative side and working together.
actually how human beings are supposed to function.
This is how young children predominantly function, with
more of a balance between the hemispheres, where the
energy is more balanced.
8
9
This is
And then we educate them.
And with young girls, who we say are more

intuitive and have this other operation of the brain,
10
and young boys are more analytical, and now we kind of
11
treat everybody the same so we kind of dumb them all
12
down to the same level.
13
children and you look at where their brain activity is
14
and between 3 and, say, 5 or 6 years old, they have
15
this predominant brain frequencies or a lot of Theta
16
brain frequencies coming in and then some ELF and then
17
higher frequency ranges.
18
But when you look at young
Now, what is Theta?
Theta states if we're in a
19
Theta state, we're kind of like in that dream-like state
20
between awake and asleep where you're consciously aware
21
of your dreams.
22
good deal of their time.
23
as we call it, are so active.
24
don't pay attention to that, don't pay attention to
25
that.
That's where 3 to 5 year olds spend a

That's why their imaginations,
And we keep saying, oh,
This was our first attempt to shut down the
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intuitive combinations of the way the brain is actually
supposed to work.
In fact, for those who have a Christian
background, you know Jesus Christ himself said, look at
the little children, watch what they do.
think I heard somebody say something about this earlier,
little children come to the table kind of innocent with
a view of the world that's quite different than the rest
of ours.
You know, I
But the brain activity of children is unique
10
and we begin to take that out of them in the structure
11
of the way we educate.
12
So what Robert Monroe -- he was actually a
13
radio engineer.
14
had this really weird experience.
15
body experience, that he had that kind of threw him.
16
You know, it didn't make any sense to him.
17
began -- he also noticed that in the background there
18
was this kind of noise that he perceived.
19
He owned a bunch of radio stations.
He
It's an OBE, an outer
So he
So he began to experiment and he created this
20
technique for binaural beat.
21
series.
22
binaural beat.
23
those US patents from 1994, and this is showing the
24
brain before the activity, before turning on the
25
Hemi-Sync, and this is after, showing a more even
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He developed a whole
In fact, he actually got US patents on a

This is an image taken out of one of
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distribution in a more rhythmic pattern in the
brainwaves as you see in the upper right-hand corner.
Let me roll back again so you can kind of see
the comparison.
activities happening all through the brain, and then a
coherent signal creating a hemispheric balance and an
optimization of brain potential.
8
9
Normal brain, kind of disorganized
So what did he do with this?
He developed a
whole series of things; audio input technology,
10
essentially, to manipulate behavior, but where you're in
11
control of that manipulation.
12
smoking, you get his CD on quit smoking.
13
brain in such a way, becomes compelling, very affective.
14
So you want to quit

It affects the
Sleep disorders can be addressed in this way.
15
They have someone be able to relax, meditation,
16
concentration, accelerated learning.
17
things can be done.
18
over the course of many, many, many, many years, and now
19
his daughter doing the work of working with thousands of
20
people to determine which signals actually created which
21
effects and then developing technology that they could
22
place in the hands of individuals to make the choice on
23
how to use it.
24
25
A whole array of
And they did this by working with,
Now, that's kind of an interesting way of

looking at technology.
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It was my area of interest, in
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the beginning of all of this work, was not looking for
the dark side of all of this, but in the mid-'80s I got
very interested in light and sound stimulation of the
brain that capitalized on sound signals and flickering
light for brain entrainment.
the brain will follow that external signal or what's
called FFR, frequency following response.
little energy.
Entrain the brain where
So very
Let me roll back to Delgado again.
10
One-fiftieth of the amount of energy the earth creates
11
is sufficient to move your brain into very specific
12
states.
13
just another technique for altering brain activity that
14
might be beneficial, but you're in control of it, not
15
somebody else.
16
Dialing that radio up, if you will.
This is
I'm going to skip some of these just because
17
they're not so relevant.
18
images and let me just go back into the whole dialogue
19
of this, mind effects.
20
And I'm going to close the
When I think about sort of where do we go with
21
this conference, when we put that conference together
22
with the Lay Institute, our purpose was to put together
23
these really good thinkers to try and see if we could
24
create a synergy between them.
25
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And when I first got interested in doing
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something actively in science, it wasn't about HAARP and
it wasn't about mind control.
would play -- and I was working in a government office
at the time, and it was -- my friend said, you make your
living with your left foot.
living, but the rest of my creativity could be engaged
elsewhere and me working in bureaucracy was really a bad
match.
The role that I thought I
Because I could make my
But the point was, my youngest son, when I was
10
getting really frustrated with my work, said, change
11
channels.
12
You know, I'm thinking about this, because I
13
had just given him this discussion about creativity was
14
like changing the channels on the TV set, right, and so
15
he's feeding it back, time to change the channels, Dad.
16
So I thought about it.
And what I decided I
17
would do is -- I read independently in science over 20
18
years.
19
say, one guy in one branch of science.
20
if this person could ever meet that person, you could
21
really see something happen.
22
I had read some really compelling things from,

I thought, boy,
And the first paper I actually ever presented
23
in science, I was 19 and it was at another obscure
24
conference that I ended up in on biorhythm research.
25
And my paper was contrasting at that time the Soviet
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method of research versus the US method.
method was compartmentalization, separate.
distill things down to the smallest subspecialty and
then push these people into a corner and let them do
this bit of the research.
other people over here and ten other groups over there
and fifteen groups over there, and somewhere all of this
stuff comes together and it gets really sloppy.
It's sloppy because there's a lot of repetition; it's
10
Now, the US
You know,
And then you've got nine
Okay.
very expensive.
11
Now, the Russians, Soviets at the time, they
12
didn't have the money for that kind of research, to
13
spread it out that way, and they used a very different
14
method.
15
fields, even though they didn't seem like they should
16
connect.
17
together to develop science.
18
at the exposures that we had seen earlier, what are the
19
regulatory exposures of electromagnetic fields, the
20
Russians in the '90s and the '80s were a thousand times
21
more stringent than they were in the US.
22
They took experts from all of these different
They put them in the same room to work
Well, why was it?
That's why when you look
Because they had actually
23
made the observations that we hadn't made and actually
24
connected the dots in a way to say, hey, this is
25
dangerous.
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That doesn't mean they followed their own
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regulations, because they probably didn't.
whatever was expeditious there.
recognized the physiological responses to
electromagnetic fields and the fact that you could
manipulate it.
They did
But at least they
What was discovered by a guy named Allan Frey,
he was looking at microwaves, and he discovered that
there's this flickering effect, but it only occurred
when you pulse-modulated the signal.
And if you look
10
at -- I heard earlier, it's always scalars.
11
scalars.
12
fields as we think about them.
13
It's not vectors.
It's always
It's not electromagnetic
But if you look at the ones that affect human
14
psychology and physiology, if you look at those signals,
15
they have a very quick rise time and a very fast drop.
16
They're like the punch, like punching that ionosphere to
17
create the ELF.
18
modulations on these other carriers are meant to trigger
19
that effect by you entraining to that pulse, that
20
firing, or some submodulation being carried on a general
21
carrier.
22
It's like those signals.
Those
Now, if you remember the first Gulf War, the
23
first Bush War, and you remember how the Iraqi Army just
24
sort of gave up.
25
just like school children on their first fire drill
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The fourth largest Army in the world
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throwing their hands up and surrendering, you know,
thousands of guys to a few dozen.
Now, I speculated on this.
What was that about?

And then it was
Scottish media that later reported on this and said it
was Project Solo, which was a project operated by the
United States.
flying over the country at the time and it was taking
and piggybacking the signal on the radio broadcast going
into the region that were broadcasting the Muslim music
10
And what we did is we had this C-130
and prayers.
11
So all these guys are in their bunkers
12
listening to their favorite radio station.
Unbeknownst
13
to them, the subsignals being played on that broadcast
14
created anxiety, high levels of anxiety and fear.
15
then you watched this Army just collapse under this.
16
And that was kind of the -- in my view, the
And
17
first test of could you really do this, could you do it
18
in this adversarial environment.
19
And one of my friends joked, hey, it's the
20
perfect Republican weapon, right?
21
hardware in place, but totally wipe out the population.
22
Zbigniew Brzezinski said, in between two ways,
23
it doesn't matter if it's Republicans or Conservatives.
24
They just use different rationale for accomplishing
25
their political ends.
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You can keep all the
On the conservative side, the
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Neocon side, it might be the fascination with gadgetry
and new technology, as Zbigniew Brzezinski said, and on
the liberal side it might be the idea that we're doing
this for your own good.
And we've all heard that before.
The government is here, right?
The fact of the matter is, when you start
thinking about mind control technologies as a concept,
the idea that someone believes that they can interfere
with your free will, this is something that most
10
religions in the world say God won't even do.
11
think this is their appropriate direction in technology,
12
to interfere with the way consciousness flows.
13
Yet, men
Now, think about for a moment what are the
14
things that -- what is the easiest way to manipulate
15
consciousness?
16
Create an environment of anxiety and fear.
17
happens at that point is you cannot reach your higher
18
states of consciousness.
19
The easiest way, the simplest way.

Because what
If you look at Monroe, rhythmic patterns in the
20
Hemi-Sync as an example, higher states of consciousness
21
are associated with those rhythmic patterns within the
22
brain; not that incoherent scattering of death and
23
information and energy.
24
25
So if you create a certain environment of fear

and anxiety and you look at an EEG monitor and the brain
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activity of an individual, you see it's kind of
scattered in patterns.
higher emotions; love, compassion.
rhythmic patterns.
One person is experiencing

You begin to see
Another simple way of seeing is something that
you can actually measure.
Take two people that are in
love and they -- you know the saying, and I looked into
her eyes, right?
another individual and hold that gaze, you'll begin to
If you actually gaze into the eyes of
10
mirror each other's brain activity in a pretty unique
11
way.
12
long enough.
Two people's breathing begins to
13
synchronize.
Their energy fields begin to synchronize.
Your breathing will even synchronize if you do it
14
And at the same time, their awareness, their
15
intuitions elevate and their rhythmic patterns in the
16
brain can be seen.
17
fear -- think about the advertising you see on
18
television.
19
breath is, you know?
20
uncomfortable.
21
If you can create an environment of
It's all about how you smell, how your

It's all these things to make you
Think about the 6:00 news.
Now, we heard
22
someone talk about the 6:00 news and how that kind of
23
works.
24
people sit down in front of the television set.
25
already fatigued.
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You come home from a hard day at work.
Most
They're
They begin to watch the television.
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And then their spouse hollers, it's time for dinner;
it's time for dinner.
right?
they're in a light trance-like state.
How many of you've been there,
Nobody's listening.
No one's hearing.
Because
Now, if you look in a dark room -- the
television is here -- look behind you at the white wall
and look at the flicker rate.
coherent signal within a certain range through the optic
nerves, your brain will lock onto that signal.
If that flicker rate is a
If you
10
monitor the brain activity at that time, you'll drop
11
into this highly-suggestive state and now you listen to
12
the advertising.
13
Now, every school of psychology teaches
14
frequency following response today and that you can
15
create these kinds of effects.
16
advertising?
17
advertising works so well.
18
convincing and compelling.
19
Would they apply in
Of course they would.
That's why
It works because it's
When you look at the 6:00 news, would somebody
20
utilize that in broadcasting the news of the latest
21
propaganda from whatever source it's coming from?
22
would speculate -- today I would speculate and say yes.
23
When you think about how simple it is to create
24
that agitation.
25
University who published a paper in 1995 talking about
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There was a person at Valencia
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this whole concept.
could create a complex signal, broadcast it out over a
large area that just created the sense that something's
not right.
And what he said back then was you
Unease.
And then you go watch the 6:00 news and they
indict some specific ethnic group, maybe it's Muslims,
and then a certain amount of that anger gets diverted
that way.
decided on the laser edge of populations, on majorities,
Well, in a day where a lot of things are
10
this is a very, very powerful tool and one quite simple
11
tool to apply in the modern world.
12
When you think about news feeds today, how much
13
is really investigative reporting and how much of it is
14
just spitting out somebody's press release, right?
15
little investigative reporting today because it's
16
expensive, because it's not immediate, and when you look
17
at the news media today, it's almost immediate and most
18
of it is just meant to entertain.
19
inform.
20
Very
It's not meant to
You know, freedom of the press, it used to have
21
something to do with keeping an informed public so we
22
could make good decisions and we could govern as a
23
public.
24
Say whatever you want, say it however you want, but
25
nobody takes responsibility and we have the neutered
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Today we debate the media as freedom of speech.
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neutral news.
come on.
And if you really believe it's neutral,
Everybody who assigns a story to a reporter
knows that reporter's biased.
It comes out in the news and what gets published and
what doesn't.
the news?
up.
But no one has really taken it on as a topic and
10
The editors have bias.
How many stories about mind control hit
Occasionally.
The economists might pick it
Somebody might pick up a little bit, a piece of it.
consistently pursued it.
11
Yet, when you think about modern technology and
12
the resolution -- now, we've been talking about things
13
that have happened in the past, and somebody even
14
mentioned this, MK-ULTRA is a program -- you've heard it
15
alluded to.
16
subprojects under it.
17
That was the CIA's program.
It had 144
Most of the records surrounding that were
18
shredded by a guy named Gottlieb, who was responsible
19
for that at the Central Intelligence Agency during the
20
Church Committee hearings.
21
truth back then.
22
this, has become increasingly refined as our technology
23
has advanced.
24
25
We never really got the
But the resolution, the ability to do
When you think about technological advances,

one of the things I read says that technology from the
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invention of the wheel to where we are today, it doubles
about every nine to ten months.
Invention of the wheel to where we are today, ten months
from now we're going to double that, and then we're
going to keep doing that.
Wow.
Think about it.
It used to be every five years in the 1980s,
and it kept shrinking as our computing power increased
and our ability to manipulate large amounts of data
increased.
10
Now, a super computer, think about a super
11
computer.
12
was doing this work, about 280 teraflops a second, which
13
at that time would be like six billion people on the
14
planet with hand calculators doing a calculation every
15
60 seconds for 60 hours to do what that super computer
16
could do in a second.
17
A super computer will do somewhere, when I
Well, the next evolution -- some think it's
18
already here -- are the quantum computers.
19
the quantum computer do?
20
will do what a super computer does in a trillion years.
21
It's back to this analogy of how much EMF do we have out
22
there.
23
What will
A quantum computer in one hour
Well, think about the same kind of
24
amplification and computing power.
25
as a concept.
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You look at privacy
It doesn't exist in the world today,
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right?
tracked, whether it's your GPS on your phone, whether
it's your phone conversations -- in the United States,
every piece of mail is photographed for who it went to
and who sent it.
Virtually everything about us is catalogued,
When you think about your telecommunications,
your Internet connections, Google, AT&T, Verizon, all of
them have violated the very essence of what personal
privacy is all about.
10
Because today, in the 21st Century, we need a
11
revolution, an evolution of what privacy is all about.
12
Because you, experiencing the victimization of this
13
technology, are the pinnacle of the abuse.
14
is subject to abuse of personal privacy.
15
But everyone
You used to think about it, it would start and
16
end in our physical doorway in our home.
17
in your home compared to what is in data banks stored on
18
every single human being in this room.
19
It has nothing
Now, people say, oh, don't worry about it.
20
don't have the ability to collect.
21
resolution to look into it.
22
that resolution.
23
computing first will be able to hack through every
24
security code for every system on the planet within
25
hours.
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We
We don't have the
Quantum computers will give
Whichever government finds quantum
They'll be able to predict with so much accuracy
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by collecting all that data and analyzing that data, it
will almost seem a spiritual event.
But it will only be accurate up to a certain
point.
And over time that flaw will amplify to where it's big
flaws.
guide our world, to guide our ideas, our philosophy, and
how we pursue the world.
And then there will be a little bit of a flaw.
But we'll rely increasingly on these systems to
The Internet.
What people think about that is
10
the world wide mind of the 21st Century.
11
Public Broadcasting System, did a special called "The
12
World Wide Mind".
13
I say within 20 years or even now -- maybe it already
14
exists now -- but within 20 years that you'll be able to
15
connect the physical minds of all of the people on the
16
planet in a world wide mind.
17
PBS, our
And they say within 100 years -- and
Now, that might appeal to some.
It doesn't
18
really appeal to me from the standpoint of technology.
19
I think we already have that on a certain level.
20
think we already are connected on a certain level.
21
belief systems limit our ability to access that level,
22
but I believe it's here.
23
I
Our
And I've seen enough demonstrations of it.
You
24
know, all those scientists I had in that room for that
25
mind effects conference, the part that really blew me
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away that I didn't expect was what they really centered
on was the idea -- and this was Rosalie Bertell, the nun
and physicist, and she said that the next leap is going
to be the leap where we realize or we recognize or we
remember our extrasensory perceptions, our anonymous
capabilities as human beings and that becomes the next
evolution of the human kind.
8
9
And what suppresses that is fear and anxiety,

because you cannot reach those cases of consciousness as
10
long as you're in fear and anxiety.
And anyone who
11
purports or is a victim of these technologies, do you
12
have anxiety, do you have fear?
13
you have the ability to reach those higher states of
14
consciousness in that condition?
15
not possible.
Of course you do.
Do
It's physiologically
16
So when you think about entire populations,
17
whether it's religion injecting fear or whether it's
18
government injecting fear or as my friend used to say,
19
you know, the king keeps you poor and the church keeps
20
you dumb, kind of was the early idea when you think
21
about how things evolved in Europe several hundred years
22
ago.
23
When you think about modern technology on the
24
backdrop of that concept, what's changed?
25
changed.
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It's just the same deal.
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You know, 6,000 wars
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in 4,000 years, most of them over religion; let me give
you a clue, God doesn't need any help killing anybody.
God can probably do it himself or herself.
The fact of the matter is, the idea that people
would just be evil on -- and I think I heard earlier
today that the psychopaths are in the minority.
believe they are.
people, they're out there, but they're not this mass.
Most people do things because they believe they're
I think really evil-to-the-core
10
right, and then they want to impose their rightness on
11
other people.
12
And this is kind of a mistake and then we end
13
up in this conflict between ideas without being fair and
14
recognizing people's right to disagree.
15
said earlier, certain things you can't say in Germany.
16
Certain things you can't say in a movie theater, too.
17
You know, you can't yell fire.
18
sense.
19
And I heard it
Now, it makes good
You don't want to yell fire in a movie theater.

Some would say what we're doing here is yelling
20
fire in a movie theater because we're letting people
21
know what we know, what we've concluded from a good deal
22
of research.
23
You know, my books are written, every page at
24
the bottom of each page are the footnotes.
25
find that distracting.
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Some of you
Personally, I want to know where
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the information came from as I'm reading it, not a week
later as I'm contemplating it.
source.
I want to know the
And so in the publications that I've written,
1600 source documents, reviews out of a matrix of a
hundred thousand that we had available to us, more or
less.
have made it into four books on technology dealing with
mind effects, dealing with HAARP, dealing with personal
20,000 have made it into my archives and 1600
10
privacy issues.
11
the last four years.
12
A lot of the things go unreleased in
You can look at my publications from 1999 and
13
2000, and you'll see the same things, because the old
14
literature showed enough to come to those conclusions.
15
When I testified in the European Parliament in
16
the '90s, at their invitation -- and this was another --
17
a good side story for technology.
18
name of Thomas Spencer, he was from the UK, he was a
19
Parliamentarian at the time, and he was the Chairman of
20
the Environmental Subcommittee of the European
21
Parliament.
22
given him the book on HAARP and he was very interested
23
in this.
24
I flew to Brussels and spent a few days with him talking
25
about the issue and brought with me a couple feet of
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A gentleman by the
And he had contacted me.
So we had a conversation.
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Somebody had
And at my expense,
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unclassified documents for his research team to take a
look at.
What happened then is he moved in the European
Parliament -- he was a Conservative, by the way, and he
moved into a Foreign Affairs Chairman, a very powerful
position, an ideal position for dealing with the things
that we were dealing with at the time.
8
9
So we -- at his invitation, I came over to

testify in front of the group on security and
10
disarmament in the European Parliament on HAARP and on
11
non-lethal weapons, the kinds of things we've been
12
talking about today, the manipulation of human beings.
13
Now, they do it a lot differently than we do it
14
in the US.
In the US, when you have public hearings,
15
the public actually gets to come.
16
Parliament, the public meeting is you have to have an
17
invitation to come.
18
know, I hadn't really thought much about that.
In the European
So that's kind of different.
You
19
And they also -- they can also do things behind
20
closed doors, which, you know, we theoretically can't do
21
in the United States.
22
the public invited or the media invited.
23
You can't have a meeting without
So what happened the night before the hearing
24
is the Committee met with myself, one of the other
25
people testifying, and a member of the press and we
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spent five and a half hours in a non-official meeting to
talk about these issues, so that when we actually gave
our testimony the following day, they would have
formulated a set of questions to give us the opportunity
to follow along.
because then they at least had a good base of knowledge.
So it was a great way to do it,
Now, in that private meeting we demonstrated a
technology using infrasound where you could transfer
sound through electrodes attached to the skin where you
10
would perceive that proverbial voice in the head.
11
demonstrated that to the Parliamentarians in that closed
12
session.
13
We
And then we went into the hearing the following
14
day.
And it was Rosalie Bertell, which is where I met
15
her, testifying on our side.
16
the gentleman's name, but he was from a group called
17
GRIP in Brussels that does research on weapon systems
18
particularly and he had done his Master's thesis on
19
HAARP, and so he was there.
20
It was -- I can't remember
We had someone from the International Red Cross
21
that had done work on non-lethal weapons and was a
22
specialist in this particular area.
23
there.
24
25
And then I was
We each got 15 minutes to present.
And then I
got an hour of questions from the committee in the open
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hearing where I had the opportunity to talk about some
of these things.
been this incident in Japan where children watching a
cartoon that had a certain flicker rate had caused over
700 children to go to the hospital with epileptic
seizures.
a problem, right?
to go into the hospital.
And right around that time there had
Now, remember, non-ionizing radiation is not

A flicker of the TV caused 700 kids
Now, some say that was by design.
Some say
10
that was by accident.
11
for talking about non-ionizing radiation in the European
12
Parliament because they had all read that story.
13
fresh.
14
But it was a perfect illustration
It was
The other thing demonstrating infrasound,
15
something that had never been demonstrated, to my
16
knowledge, in that type of a meeting, to show that you
17
could actually transfer sound without necessarily
18
involving the ears.
19
Now, there's another technology that was
20
advanced by a guy named Woody Norris -- he won the
21
Lemelson Prize at MIT for this particular technology,
22
and I believe the year was 2004.
23
Norris -- and his was using acoustic heterodyne where he
24
could send in two signals from two different sources,
25
point them at an individual in the crowd, and they would
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You can look up Woody
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hear this voice in their head and nobody else would hear
it.
Well, he won a half a million dollars for that
prize, organized a company called ATCO.
them up.
technology to the military for perimeter protection.
You know, where they could have these sort of alarm
systems so when the protestors got too close they'd hear
these warning signs that nobody else was hearing.
10
They're a public company.
You can look
And he sold that
Now, you think about that for a moment.
11
Imagine -- this is why the European Parliament got
12
interested, because we used this illustration.
13
imagine a national leader standing up in front of a
14
group and all of a sudden they hear voices in their head
15
that nobody else hears.
16
right?
17
what that technology can do.
18
demonstration.
19
Now,
That's the end of that guy,
I mean, he's out of there.
And that's exactly
And that was one
Now, some have said that you can pulse modulate
20
on a single beam and create the same effect or utilize
21
something like HAARP, not so much for voice in the head,
22
but for certainly changing emotional state of large
23
segments of the population.
24
25
When we looked at all of this, we even looked

back -- you know, where else could this have been used?
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And there was a device in Vietnam called the Lida
machine, L-i-d-a.
named Ross Adey, who is, unfortunately, also deceased.
Ross Adey was brilliant and was utilized by the
government, by private sector as an expert in these
kinds of areas.
A guy who researched this was a guy
Well, he was asked to look at -- this
particular device had been captured during the Vietnam
War.
It was a Russian device.
And it created the
10
entrainment effect using flickering light and sound.
11
And they used it for interrogating prisoners by putting
12
them into that, like, trance-like state and then
13
extracting intelligence from them.
14
1960s.
15
Now, that's the
Again, this is low resolution, low technology.

As computing powers increased, as our knowledge
16
in human physiology has increased, as our knowledge of
17
the electromagnetic nature of human beings has
18
increased, the ability to manipulate large segments of
19
the population comes easily achieved, either as a side
20
effect or unfortunate disaster of our technology.
21
You mentioned Swiss Re, Swiss Re Insurance.
22
Swiss Re Insurance wrote a paper on Electrosmog.
23
believe it was 2002.
24
industry then, don't insure electromagnetic field
25
effects because it will result in a bigger lawsuit than
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And they said to the insurance
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Firestone on their tires or the smoking industry,
because the knowledge is here and now and nobody insures
that risk.
Lloyd's of London insures anything, but they
won't insure that risk.
Nobody does.
Because insurance
companies don't like to lose money.
that.
before cell phones were invented, the University of
Washington had investigated those very same frequencies
It's as simple as
And yet the telecom industry on cell phones --
10
on chick embryo studies and determined they were
11
harmful.
12
Cell phones didn't exist then.

Then cell phones come out and everything's safe
13
all of a sudden.
14
says, now, wait a minute, we did all this research.
15
This is a dangerous thing.
16
a powerful adversary.
17
That same guy that did that research
But the telecom industry is
So it went to the Congress.
18
There was a guy in Florida.
19
controversy.
20
said, we need a study.
21
pay for the study.
22
study.
23
You remember this.
Brain cancer.
It ended up in the Congress.
Big
Congress
So the industry says, oh, we'll
They spend 25 million dollars on the
I can't remember the guy's name who did it, but
24
he eventually published a book because his findings
25
were, hey, this is dangerous.
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All right.
He issues his
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report.
they got the 25 million into his queue.
it all on these projects.
himself.
5
6
They figured, hey, they got him.
You know,
He got to spend
He got to make some money
Hey, he's our man.

Well, he wasn't.
This guy actually had some
integrity, and I apologize for not recalling his name.
A VOICE:
DR. BEGICH:
A VOICE:
10
George Carlo.
Which one is it?
George Carlo.
DR. BEGICH:
George Carlo, that's correct.
And
11
he wrote a book called, "Cell Phones", a very important
12
book.
13
And when it comes to children, one of his
14
observations was -- he had the simple observation of
15
damage to skulls.
16
five-year-old, 400 percent more energy transfers to the
17
skull into the brain than an adult.
18
twelve-year-old, approximately 200 percent.
19
You know, you have a four-year-old, a
Ten-year-old,
This is one of the main reasons why you don't
20
want children using cell phones or, even worse, the
21
portable phone in the home because it's even less
22
efficient with the battery and the energy with even more
23
leakage.
24
phone today where you actually pick it up and talk into
25
it.
And what do we do?
Try and find a hard line
You can't even find them anymore.
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They're almost
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impossible to find.
When you look at what we have learned about
human physiology and the effects of electromagnetic
fields on the human physiology, it is the revolution in
science that will collapse the pharmacuetical industry
one day.
recognize that the pea in the soup of electromagnetic
radiation has been the cause and the root to most of the
chronic disease we see on the planet today.
10
And one day we're going to wake up and
When you combine that with that concept that I
11
used, that example of iodine, everyone has a little bit,
12
now you have these complex interactions, 5,000 new
13
chemicals are introduced or compounds introduced to the
14
public every year without really any serious studies,
15
and then you add this on top of it, and now you have a
16
very toxic world.
17
manipulation from the propaganda of World War II to the
18
downloading of that.
19
achieve?
20
personnel with a download.
Blap.
21
years' worth of education.
Now, let's go on.
22
And then you take the technology of
What does the military hope to
They want to be able to train military
And now here's the thing.
23
kind of education.
24
programming.
25
thinking involved.
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There's your 12
Think about that
No critical thinking involved.
It's like writing to a disk.

Who controls that?
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Just
No critical
Curriculum
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controls the way in which our society goes.
risk.
This is the
What about evidence in courtrooms when you can
create a synthetic memory or wipe one out?
that do to a Democratic Republic or a Democracy where
people have the power?
us as we become increasingly transparent to governmental
agencies and they become increasingly opaque.
What does
That power has been taken from
It is the opposite of what should be occurring.
10
There shouldn't be a camera in every household.
There
11
should be a camera in every government office.
12
the technology's there.
13
and look at what our employees are doing, right?
14
Wouldn't you like to be able to dial up your
15
Congressional office and see that conversation they're
16
having in real time?
17
that?
Because
We should be able to dial in
And why shouldn't we be able to do
What do they have to hide?
18
You know, you think about government and you
19
start saying that and, you know, the only people
20
protected from that kind of intrusion in the US are
21
federal employees.
22
protection than the average citizen within the country
23
that I live in.
24
25
They have a higher level of
For what?
And when you think about government, everyone

points to the politician.
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I can tell you, most
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politicians are ignorant.
parties in the United States the preference is to have
people that are -- they look like the news announcer,
but they couldn't think their way out of a phone booth,
right?
they couldn't think their way out of one.
want people that are smart enough to look good, but not
smart enough to think on their own.
politician for political parties, because they can be
10
In fact, most political
We don't even have a phone booth anymore, but

Because they
That's the ideal
told what to do.
11
Look at how much money is being spent in
12
political outcomes.
Huge amounts of money.
Some people
13
have pointed and looked at, like, Australia to mandatory
14
voting.
Everybody votes now.
15
Worst possible thing that you could ever do.
16
And here's why:
17
pulls the lever?
18
maybe 20 percent of the population votes, but at least
19
they're informed.
20
When the population doesn't vote, who

Those that are informed, right?
So
They've educated themselves.
If you force people to vote to keep their
21
driver's license, their medical benefits, or whatever
22
social programs you've got running and you say, you will
23
vote, now who decides what they vote on?
24
buy the 30-second or one-minute ad on TV that influences
25
them.
Whoever can
The moment they walk into the booth, they go, ah,
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and pull the lever.
A very dangerous situation.
Now we have a dangerous situation.
Democracy is something that each of us have to
claim internally.
The change that people are looking
for in this group happens by a change in consciousness,
by us recognizing what we are as human beings,
recognizing the potential that we have.
know what these government programs yielded?
points to the fear side of the equation.
Because you
Everybody
But what they
10
really discovered was that every single soul, every
11
human being has this anomalous capability.
12
Now, imagine if we could awaken those
13
capabilities, could you hide anything?
14
people could literally look into the mind of another
15
person, that makes a politician pretty vulnerable,
16
wouldn't it?
17
I mean, if
That is the next evolution that I believe is
18
happening and it's the only evolution, the only
19
revolution that can change the way things are.
20
starts with human consciousness.
21
believe to be right and true and beginning to act on it.
22
Not from a foundation of fear, but a foundation of
23
confidence.
24
25
It
It starts with what we
You know, somebody asked me once, what do you

think about faith?
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I said, faith is what you know to be
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right and true and you step into it on the idea that you
can achieve it.
You believe it.
So many people I've seen in this work, they
keep jumping into things beyond their belief.
don't believe they can achieve it.
and they fail, and they keep failing.
are doing good work otherwise step back, do what you can
do with confidence, do what you can do with knowledge,
don't wait for a group to form.
They try it anyway

And people who
The group's already
10
here.
It's called the human race.
11
to be right and true.
12
up, learn from it, and move forward.
13
They
Act on what you know
If you make a mistake, clean it
When you look across this room and you look at
14
all these folks with a little bit of gray hair, and
15
you've got the gray hair not by all of those great
16
things that happened in your life, but by the real
17
disasters that happened in your life.
18
think about bad news is a stimulation for good news.
19
You know, you
People ask me, you know your father's
20
disappearance, disappeared off the face of the earth,
21
that must have been a horrible thing.
22
the time.
23
life because it altered my course.
24
25
Yeah, it was at
I consider it the most important event in my
The worst things in our lives alter our course,

change our direction, activate that higher potential
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that cause us to rise out of the ashes of our apathy and
our defeats and stand on our feet again and move
forward.
The pain that people experience today is the
catalyst for the solutions tomorrow, whether we like it
or not, whether it's falling down as a two-year-old or
standing up as an adult.
our ethics, on the basis of our values, and we
reinvigorate and let go of the fear and recognize what
If we stand up on the basis of
10
we are as creative beings, we have the potential to make
11
change.
12
And with that, I'll open it to questions.
13
(Applause.)
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: Cover Page
Page 1 of 2
Sign the Resolution

Contents | Feedback | Search
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Historical References
General Histories | Ancient History | 1800-1850 | 1860 | 1870 | 1880 | 1890
1900 | 1910 | 1920 | 1930 | 1940 | 1950 | 1960 | 1970 | 1980 | 1990
Table of Contents
JOINT HEARING
BEFORE THE
SELECT COMMITTEE ON
INTELLIGENCE
AND THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
HEALTH AND SCIENTIFIC
RESEARCH
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON HUMAN
RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
NINETY-FIFTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
____________
AUGUST 3, 1977
Page 281 of 548
Page No. 1 of 258

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/e1950/mkultra/cover.htm
1/22/2009
1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: Cover Page
Page 2 of 2
Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Intelligence

and Committee on Human Resources
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON: 1977
For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing
Office
Washington, D.C. 20402
Stock No. 052-070-04357-1
Page 282 of 548
Page No. 2 of 258

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1/22/2009
1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: Staff Page
Page 1 of 2
Sign the Resolution

1900 | 1910 | 1920 | 1930 | 1940 | 1950 | 1960 | 1970 | 1980 | 1990
Table of Contents
SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE

ON INTELLIGENCE
(Established by S. Res. 400, 94th Cong., 2d sess.)
DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii, Chairman
BARRY GOLDWATER, Arizona, Vice Chairman
BIRCH BAYH, Indiana
ADLAI E. STEVENSON, Illinois
WILLIAM D. HATHAWAY, Maine
WALTER D. HUDDLESTON, Kentucky
JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., Delaware
ROBERT MORGAN, North Carolina
GARY HART, Colorado
DANIEL PATRICK MOYNIHAN, New York
CLIFFORD P. CASE, New Jersey
JAKE GARN, Utah
CHARLES McC. MATHIAS, JR., Maryland
JAMES B. PEARSON, Kansas
JOHN H. CHAFE, Rhode Island
RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana
MALCOLM WALLOP, Wyoming
ROBERT C. BYRD, West Virginia, Ex Officio Member
HOWARD H. BAKER, JR., Tennessee, Ex Officio Member
WILLIAM G. MILLER, Staff Director
EARL D. EISENHOWER, Minority Staff Director
AUDREY H. HATRY, Chief Clerk
Page 283 of 548
Page No. 3 of 258

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1/22/2009
1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: Staff Page
Page 2 of 2
COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES

HARRISON A. WILLIAMS, JR., New Jersey, Chairman
JENNINGS RANDOLPH, West Virginia
CLAIBORNE PELL, Rhode Island
EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts
GAYLORD NELSON, Wisconsin
THOMAS F. EAGLETON, Missouri
ALAN CRANSTON, California
DONALD W. RIEGLE, JR., Michigan
JACOB K. JAVITS, New York
RICHARD S. SCHWEIKER, Pennsylvania
ROBERT T. STAFFORD, Vermont
ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah
JOHN H. CHAFEE, Rhode Island
S.I. HAYAKAWA, California
STEPHEN J. PARADISE, General Counsel and Staff Director
MARJORIE M. WHITTAKER, Chief Clerk
DON A. ZIMMERMAN, Minority Counsel
SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts, Chairman
CLAIBORNE PELL, Rhode Island
GAYLORD NELSON, Wisconsin
HARRISON A. WILLIAMS, JR., New Jersey
(ex officio)
RICHARD S. SCHWEIKER, Pennsylvania
JACOB K. JAVITS, New York
JOHN H. CHAFEE, Rhode Island
LAWRENCE HOROWITZ, Professional Staff Member
DAVID WINSTON, Minority Counsel
(II)
Table of Contents
Page 284 of 548
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1/22/2009
1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: Prepared Statement of CIA Director Stansfield Tur... Page 1 of 6
Sign the Resolution

1900 | 1910 | 1920 | 1930 | 1940 | 1950 | 1960 | 1970 | 1980 | 1990
Table of Contents
Prepared Statement of Admiral Stansfield Turner, Director of

Central Intelligence
Mr. Chairman: In my letter to you of July 15, 1977, I reported our recent discovery of seven boxes
of documents related to Project MKULTRA, a closely held CIA project conducted from 19531964. As you may recall, MKULTRA was an "umbrella project" under which certain sensitive
subprojects were funded, involving among other things research on drugs and behavioral
modification. During the Rockefeller Commission and Church Committee investigations in 1975,
the cryptonym became publicly known when details of the drug-related death of Dr. Frank Olsen
were publicized. In 1953 Dr. Olsen, a civilian employee of the Army at Fort Detrick, leaped to his
death from a hotel room window in New York City about a week after having unwittingly
consumed LSD administered to him as an experiment at a meeting of LSD researchers called by
CIA.
Most of what was known about the Agency's involvement with behavioral drugs during the
investigations in 1975 was contained in a report on Project MKULTRA prepared by the Inspector
General's office in 1963. As a result of that report's recommendations, unwitting testing of drugs
on U.S. citizens was subsequently discontinued. The MKULTRA-related report was made
available to the Church Committee investigators and to the staff of Senator Kennedy's
Subcommittee on Health. Until the recent discovery, it was believed that all of the MKULTRA
files dealing with behavioral modification had been destroyed in 1973 on the orders of the then
retiring Chief of the Office of Technical Service, with the authorization of the DCI, as has been
previously reported. Almost all of the people who had had any connection with the aspects of the
project which interested Senate investigators in 1975 were no longer with the Agency at that time.
Thus, there was little detailed knowledge of the MKULTRA subprojects available to CIA during
the Church Committee investigations. This lack of available details, moreover, was probably not
wholly attributable to the
-5destruction of MKULTRA files in 1973; the 1963 report on MKULTRA by the Inspector General
notes on page 14: "Present practice is to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test
Page 285 of 548
Page No. 5 of 258

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/e1950/mkultra/Hearing02.htm
1/22/2009
programs."
When I reported to you last on this matter, my staff had not yet had an opportunity to review the
newly located material in depth. This has now been accomplished, and I am in a position to give
you a description of the contents of the recovered material. I believe you will be most interested in
the following aspects of the recent discovery:
How the material was discovered and why it was not previously found;
The nature of this recently located material;
How much new information there is in the material which may not have been previously
known and reported to Senate investigators; and
What we believe the most significant aspects of this find to be.
To begin, as to how we discovered these materials. The material had been sent to our Retired
Records Center outside of Washington and was discovered sent to our Retired Records Center
outside of Washington and was discovered there as a result of the extensive search efforts of an
employee charged with responsibility for maintaining our holdings on behavioral drugs and for
responding to Freedom of Information Act requests on this subject. During the Church Committee
investigation in 1975, searches for MKULTRA-related material were made by examining both the
active and retired records of all branches of CIA considered at all likely to have had association
with MKULTRA documents. The retired records of the Budget and Fiscal Section of the Branch
responsible for such work were not searched, however. This was because financial papers
associated with sensitive projects such s MKULTRA were normally maintained by the Branch
itself under the project file, not by the Budget and Fiscal Section. In the case at hand, however,
the newly located material was sent to the Retired Records Center in 1970 by the Budget and
Fiscal Section as part of its own retired holdings. The reason for this departure from normal
procedure is not known. As a result of it, however, the material escaped retrieval and destruction
in 1973 by the then-retiring Director of the Office as well as discovery in 1975 by CIA officials
responding to Senate investigators.
The employee who located this material did so by leaving no stone unturned in his efforts to
respond to FOIA requests. He reviewed all listings of material of this Branch stored at the Retired
Records Center, including those of the Budget and Fiscal Section and, thus, discovered the
MKULTRA-related documents which had been missed in the previous searches. In sum, the
Agency failed to uncover these particular documents in 1973 in the process of attempting to
destroy them; it similarly failed to locate them in 1975 in response to the Church Committee
hearings. I am convinced that there was no attempt to conceal this material during the earlier
searches.
Next, as to the nature of the recently located material, it is important to realize that the recovered
folders are finance folders. The bulk of the material in them consists of approvals for advance of
funds, vouchers, accountings, and the like -- most of which are not very informative as to the
nature of the activities that were undertaken. Occasional project proposals or memoranda
commenting on some aspect of a subproject are scattered throughout this material. In general,
however, the recovered material does not include status reports or other documents relating to
operational considerations or progress in the various subprojects, though some elaboration of the
activities contemplated does appear. The recovered documents fall roughly into three categories:
First, there are 149 MKULTRA subprojects, many of which appear to have some connection
with research into behavioral modification, drug acquisition and testing or administering drugs
surreptitiously.
Page 286 of 548
Page No. 6 of 258

1/22/2009
Second, there are two boxes of miscellaneous MKULTRA papers, including audit reports and
financial statements from "cut-out" (i.e., intermediary) funding mechanisms used to conceal CIA's
sponsorship of various research projects.
Finally, there are 33 additional subprojects concerning certain intelligence activities previously
funded under MKULTRA which have nothing to do either with behavioral modification, drugs,
and toxins or with any other related matters.
We have attempted to group the activities covered by the 149 subprojects into categories under
descriptive headings. In broad outline, at least, this presents the contents of these files. The
activities are placed in the following 15 categories:
-61. Research into the effects of behavioral drugs and/or alcohol:

17 subprojects probably not involving human testing;
14 subprojects definitely involving tests on human volunteers;
19 subprojects probably including tests on human volunteers. While not known, some of these
subprojects may have included tests on unwitting subjects as well;
6 subprojects involving tests on unwitting subjects.
2. Research on hypnosis: 8 subprojects, including 2 involving hypnosis and drugs in combination.
3. Acquisition of chemicals or drugs: 7 subprojects.
4. Aspects of magicians' art useful in covert operations: e.g., surreptitious delivery of drug-related
materials: 4 subprojects.
5. Studies of human behavior, sleep research, and behavioral changes during psychotherapy: 9
subprojects.
6. Library searches and attendance at seminars and international conferences on behavioral
modification: 6 subprojects.
7. Motivational studies, studies of defectors, assessment, and training techniques: 23 subprojects.
8. Polygraph research: 3 subprojects.
9. Funding mechanisms for MKULTRA external research activities: 3 subprojects.
10. Research on drugs, toxins, and biologicals in human tissue; provision of exotic pathogens and
the capability to incorporate them in effective delivery systems: 6 subprojects.
11. Activities whose objectives cannot be determined from available documentation: 3
Page 287 of 548
Page No. 7 of 258

1/22/2009
subprojects.
12. Subprojects involving funding support for unspecified activities connected with the Army's
Special Operations Division at Fr. Detrick, Md. This activity is outline in Book I of the Church
Committee Report, pp. 388-389. (See Appendix A, pp. 68-69.) Under CIA's Project MKNAOMI,
the Army Assisted CIA in developing, testing, and maintaining biological agents and delivery
systems for use against humans as well as against animals and crops. The objectives of these
subprojects cannot be identified from the recovered material beyond the fact that the money was
to be used where normal funding channels would require more written or oral justification than
appeared desirable for security reasons or where operational considerations dictated short lead
times for purchases. About $11,000 was involved during this period 1953-1960: 3 subprojects.
13. Single subprojects in such areas as effects of electro-shock, harassment techniques for
offensive use, analysis of extrasensory perception, gas propelled sprays and aerosols, and four
subprojects involving crop and material sabotage.
14. One or two subprojects on each of the following:
"Blood Grouping" research, controlling the activity of animals, energy storage and transfer in
organic systems; and
stimulus and response in biological systems.
15. Three subprojects canceled before any work was done on them having to do with laboratory
drug screening, research on brain concussion, and research on biologically active materials to be
tested through the skin on human volunteers.
Now, as to how much new the recovered material adds to what has previously been reported to
the Church Committee and to Senator Kennedy's Subcommittee on Health on these topics, the
answer is additional detail, for the most part: e.g., the names of previously unidentified
researchers and institutions associated on either a witting or unwitting basis with MKULTRA
activities, and the names of CIA officials who approved or monitored the various subprojects.
Some new substantive material is also present: e.g., details concerning proposals for
experimentation and clinical testing associated with various research projects, and a possibly
improper contribution by CIA to a private institution. However, the principal types of activities
included have, for the most part, either been outlined to some extent or generally described in
what was previously available to CIA in the way of documentation and was supplied by CIA to
Senate investigators. For example:
Financial disbursement records for the period 1960-1964 for 76 of the 149 numbered MKULTRA
subprojects had been recovered from the Office of Finance by CIA and were made available to the
Church Committee investigators in August or September 1975.
The 1963 Inspector General report on MKULTRA made available to both the Church Committee
and Senator Kennedy's Subcommittee mentions electro-shock
-7and harassment substances (pp. 4, 16); covert testing on unwitting U.S. citizens (pp. 7, 10-12); the
Page 288 of 548
Page No. 8 of 258

1/22/2009
search for new materials through arrangements with specialists in universities, pharmaceutical
houses, hospitals, state and federal institutions, and private research organizations (pp. 7, 9); and
the fact that the Technical Service Division of CIA had initiated 144 subprojects related to the
control of human behavior between 1953-1963 (p. 21).
The relevant section of a 1957 Inspector General report on the Technical Service Division was
also made available to the Church Committee staff. That report discusses techniques for human
assessment and unorthodox methods of communication (p. 201); discrediting and disabling
materials which can be covertly administered (pp. 201-202); studies on magicians' arts as applied
to covert operations (p. 202); specific funding mechanisms for research performed outside of CIA
(pp. 202-203, 205); research being done on "K" (knockout) material, alcohol tolerance, and
hypnotism (p. 203); research on LSD (p. 204); anti-personnel harassment and assassination
delivery systems including aerosol generators and other spray devices (pp. 206-208); the role of
Fort Detrick in support of CIA's Biological/Chemical Warfare capability (p. 208); and material
sabotage research (p. 209). Much of this material is reflected in the Church Committee Report,
Book I, pp. 385-422. (See Appendix A, pp. 65-102).
The most significant new data discovered are, first, the names of researchers and institutions who
participated in the MKULTRA project and, secondly, a possibly improper contribution by CIA to
a private institution. We are now in possession of the names of 185 non-government researchers
and assistants who are identified in the recovered material dealing with the 149 subprojects. The
names of 80 institutions where work was done or with which these people were affiliated are also
mentioned.
The institutions include 44 colleges or universities, 15 research foundations or chemical or
pharmaceutical companies and the like, 12 hospitals or clinics (in addition to those associated
with universities), and 3 penal institutions. While the identities of some of these people and
institutions were known previously, the discovery of the new identities adds to our knowledge of
MKULTRA.
The facts as they pertain to the possibly improper contribution are as follows: One project
involves a contribution of $375,000 to a building fund of a private medical institution. The fact
that a contribution was made was previously known; indeed it was mentioned in a 1957 Inspector
General report on the Technical Service Division of CIA, pertinent portions of which had been
reviewed by the Church Committee staff. The newly discovered material, however, makes it clear
that this contribution was made through an intermediary, which made it appear to be a private
donation. As a private donation, the contribution was then matched by federal funds. The
institution was not made aware of the true source of the gift. This project was approved by the
then DCI, and concurred in by CIA's top management at the time, including the then General
Counsel who wrote an opinion supporting the legality of the contribution.
The recently discovered documents give a greater insight into the scope of the unwitting drug
testing but contribute little more than that. We now have collaborating information that some of
the unwitting drug testing was carried on in safehouses in San Francisco and New York City, and
we have identified that three individuals were involved in this undertaking as opposed to the
previously reported one person. We also know now that some unwitting testing took place on
criminal sexual psychopaths confined at a State hospital and that, additionally, research was done
on knock-out or "K" drug in parallel with research to develop pain killers for cancer patients.
These, then are the principal findings identified to date in our review of the recovered material. As
noted earlier, we believe the detail on the identities of researchers and institutions involved in
CIA's sponsorship of drugs and behavioral modification is a new element and one which poses a
considerable problem. Most of the people and institutions involved are not aware of Agency
sponsorship. We should certainly assume that the researchers and institutions which cooperate
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with CIA on a witting basis acted in good faith and in the belief that they were aiding their
government in a legitimate and proper purpose. I believe we all have a moral obligation to these
researchers and institutions to protect them from any unjustified embarrassment or damage to
their reputations which revelation of their identities might bring. In addition, I have a legal
obligation under the Privacy Act not to publicly disclose the names of the individual researchers
without their consent. This is especially true, of course, for
-8those researchers and institutions which were unwitting participants in CIA-sponsored activities.
Nevertheless, recognizing the right and the need of both the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence and the Senate Subcommittee on Health to investigate the circumstances of these
activities in whatever detail they consider necessary. I am providing your Committee with all of
the names on a classified basis. I hope that this will facilitate your investigation while protecting
the individuals and institutions involved. Let me emphasize that the MKULTRA events are 12 to
25 years in the past. I assure you that the CIA is in no way engaged in either witting or unwitting
testing of drugs today.
Finally, I am working closely with the Attorney General and with the Secretary of Health,
Education and Welfare on this matter. We are making available to the Attorney General whatever
materials he may deem necessary to any investigation he may elect to undertake. We are working
with both the Attorney General and the Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare to determine
whether it is practicable from this new evidence to attempt to identify any of the persons to whom
drugs may have been administered unwittingly. No such names are part of these records, but we
are working to determine if there are adequate clues to lead to their identification; and if so, how
to go about fulfilling the Government's responsibilities in the matter.
Next: Testimony of CIA Director Stansfield Turner

Previous: Opening Remarks
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1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: Testiomony of Philip Goldman and John Gittinger, ... Page 1 of 18
Sign the Resolution

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Table of Contents
Testimony of Philip Goldman, Former Employee, Central

Intelligence Agency
Mr. GOLDMAN. I am Philip Goldman.
Senator INOUYE. And you are a former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Over 10 years ago.
Senator INOUYE. And you were employed at the time when MKULTRA was in operation?
Mr. GOLDMAN. There were some MKULTRA's in operation at the time I was there.
-51Senator INOUYE. And Mr. John Gittinger, are you a former employee of the Central
Intelligence Agency?
Testimony of John Gittinger, Former Employee, Central

Intelligence Agency
Mr. GITTINGER. I am.
Senator INOUYE. Are you still an employee?
Mr. GITTINGER. No.
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Senator INOUYE. Were you a member of the Agency at the time MKULTRA was in
operation?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.
Senator INOUYE. Thank you. Senator Kennedy.
Senator KENNEDY. I want to welcome both of you to the committee. If we could start with
Mr. Goldman. Were you the project engineer for the safe houses in either San Francisco or
New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I know of no safe house in San Francisco.
Senator KENNEDY. How about in New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I knew of one facility that was established there, but I didn't know anything
of its operation.
Senator KENNEDY. Were you a monitor on any testing of drugs on unwitting persons in San
Francisco?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, we have a classified document here that was provided by the
Agency that lists your name as a monitor of the program and I would appreciate it if you
would look-Mr. GOLDMAN. I think the misunderstanding arises because I was project officer.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, would you take a look at that?
[Mr. Goldman inspected the document.]
Mr. GOLDMAN. This document as it states is correct. However, my-Senator KENNEDY. That document is correct?
Mr. GOLDMAN. As far as I see on the first page, the project. But my-Senator KENNEDY. Well, could I get it back, please.
That would indicate that you were a monitor of the program.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I was in charge of disbursing the moneys to Morgan Hall.
Senator KENNEDY. To whom was that?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To the individual whose name was listed at the top of that document.
Senator KENNEDY. And you knew that he was running the project in San Francisco?
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Mr. GOLDMAN. I knew he was the person who was in charge out there.
Senator KENNEDY. All right.
Mr. GOLDMAN. But I had no knowledge nor did I seek knowledge of actually what he was
doing, because there would be other things involved.
I did receive-Senator KENNEDY. What were you doing?
-52Mr. GOLDMAN. I was collecting -- I had to be sure that all the receipts that ever were turned
in balanced with the moneys that were paid out to see that everything was run all right. There
was no illegal use of funds as far as we could determine by the receipts and cash.
Senator KENNEDY. So even though the Agency document indicates that you were a monitor
for the program, one of the few monitors of that particular program which you mentioned for
San Francisco and Mill Valley, Calif., you described your responsibility only as a carrier of
money, is that correct?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I would say as a disburser or carrying out -- seeing that the moneys were
handled properly. There was within that -- I don't know what's done or what he did do in
conjunction with other people.
Senator KENNEDY. Were you responsible for the disbursement of all the funds?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I was responsible for turning over the check to him.
Senator KENNEDY. And what did you know of the program itself?
Mr. GOLDMAN. The only thing I knew of the program was what he furnished us in terms of
receipts and that sort of thing. I didn't indulge or concern myself in that.
Senator KENNEDY. You still wrote, and I'll let you examine it -- it's a classified document -but you wrote a rather substantive review of the program in May of 1963, talking about the
experiments, the factual data that had been collected, covert and realistic field trials, about the
necessity of those particular -- and talked about the effectiveness of the various programs, the
efficiency of various delivery systems. That doesn't sound to me like someone who is only-Mr. GOLDMAN. Well, if you would refresh my memory, if I could read this I would
certainly agree with whatever is said there, if it was written.
Senator KENNEDY. I am trying to gather what your role was. You've indicated first of all
that you didn't know about -- you knew about a safe house in New York; now we find out that
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you're the carrier for the resources as well and the agent in San Francisco. We find out now
that the CIA put you as a monitor. You're testifying that you only were the courier, and here
we have just one document, and there are many others that talk about the substance of that
program with your name on it and I am just trying to find out exactly what role you were
playing.
Mr. GOLDMAN. The only thing I can tell you about this and I am drawing completely on
my memory is that this individual who was in charge out there conducted these things and
reported them back to the Agency. I didn't participate in any of them. All I know was that he
furnished me with receipts for things that were done and told of the work that they had done.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that document covers more than receipts.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, it tells of what -- they had conducted work out there.
Senator KENNEDY. It describes, does it not? Read the paragraph 2.
Mr. GOLDMAN. "A number of covert"-Senator KENNEDY. Well, you can't read it, it's a classified document, and I don't know why,
quite frankly, but it relates to the substance
-53of those programs and your name is signed to the memorandums on it. I am not interested in
you trying to review for us now what is in the document, but I think it would be unfortunate if
we were left with the opinion that all you were was a courier of resources when we see a
document with your name on it, signed, that talks about the substance of the program. And
what we're interested in is the substance of the program. We have the recent documents that
were provided by the Agency, which do indicate that you were at least involved in the
substance, and I'm just trying to find out whether you're willing to tell us about that.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I am perfectly willing to tell you everything that I can remember.
Senator KENNEDY. But you can't remember anything.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I can't remember the substantive parts of these, things, I really can't.
Senator KENNEDY. Of the program that was taking place.
Do you have any greater familiarity with what was happening in New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, no.
Senator KENNEDY. And you have the same function with regards to New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. The same function with regard to New York.
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Senator KENNEDY. Did you ever go to San Francisco?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. Did you meet with the agent in charge?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And why did you meet with him?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To discuss some of the receipts and things that were there to find out if
these were indeed true expenditures and to find out if everything was going along all right for
the work that was being done.
Senator KENNEDY. What work was being done?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, the reports of these things and whatever was being done. I don't know
who he reported to but he did report to somebody.
Senator KENNEDY. You travel out there to find out about the work that's being done, and
what does he tell you, that the work is being done well and-Mr. GOLDMAN. He told me that the work that they were doing was going along,
progressing satisfactorily, but to be very frank with you-Senator KENNEDY. But he didn't tell you what the work was?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To be very frank with you, Senator, I cannot remember the things that
happened back in those days. I've been away from the company -- from the Agency for over
10 years, and that is even farther back than that, and that was just about the time when I first
engaged in this, so it was my first-Senator KENNEDY. Did they disburse a series of $100 checks, to your recollection?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I don't recollect it, but if you have it there, then they did.
Senator KENNEDY. Did you know Dr. Gottlieb?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
-54Senator KENNEDY. How did you know Dr. Gottlieb?

Mr. GOLDMAN. He had been head of the division when I was recruited.
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Senator KENNEDY. Did you talk to him about these programs? Did you have anything to do
with him during this period of time?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't have anything to do with him until I would say probably in the
sixties.
Senator KENNEDY. And can you tell us what you had to do with him then?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Just what you see there, on the papers.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that is the request for the money and he approves it.
Mr. GOLDMAN. That is the request for money and he approves it, and I am quite sure that I
probably discussed with him whether the work was going along all right, whether his reports
were being turned in, and whether he was satisfied with the way things were going and did he
have any complaints about the way other people were requesting him, but I did not engage
myself in anything he was doing.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, did you get the impression that Gottlieb knew what was going
on?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't ask.
Senator KENNEDY. But you told him that your impression that what was going on even
though you didn't know what was going on, was going on well, I guess? [Laughter.]
Mr. GOLDMAN. I told Gottlieb what you saw in there was that the things appeared to be
going along all right. I was repeating and parroting back the words that were given to me
while I was there.
Senator KENNEDY. What was the money being spent for, do you know?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No; I can't recall that, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Would you remember if we told you it was red curtains and can-can
pictures-Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Floral pictures and the rest.
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Recorders.
Senator KENNEDY. Recorders and two-way mirrors.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Wait, hold on. You're slipping a word in there now.
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Senator KENNEDY. But you would have authorized those funds, would you not, since you
were the-Mr. GOLDMAN. Did you say two-way mirrors?
Senator KENNEDY. Yes.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Where?
Senator KENNEDY. In the safe houses.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Where?
Senator KENNEDY. San Francisco.
Mr. GOLDMAN. No.
Senator KENNEDY. How about New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. You remember now that you approved expenditures for New York?
-55Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.

Senator KENNEDY. What were those expenditures for?
Mr. GOLDMAN. That was a transfer of money over for the use in an apartment in New York
by the Bureau of Narcotics. It was for their use.
Senator KENNEDY. Do you have any knowledge of what was going on in the apartment?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir, other than I know that it had been used, according to the
information that I have been given, it was used by the Bureau of Narcotics to make meetings
with individuals who they were interested in with regard to pushing dope -- not pushing dope,
but selling narcotics and that sort of thing.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, I am sure you had many responsibilities and it's a long time ago,
but the Agency does indicate that you were project monitor for that particular program.
Mr. GOLDMAN. That's correct.
Senator KENNEDY. Your own testimony indicates you went out to review the expenditures
of funds to find out whether they were being wisely used, that you came back and talked to the
project director, Mr. Gottlieb, to give him a progress report about what was going on out there.
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Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir, I did.

Senator KENNEDY. All those things are true, and yet you draw a complete blank in terms of
what was the project itself. That's where the record is now.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I did not go out there to review the projects nor did I come back and talk
with Mr. Gottlieb and review what I had observed in terms of any projects that they -- that is,
other parts of the Agency might have in operation there. I simply reported back those things
which were told to me by the individual out there who -- and I carried them back and they -are contained in the report that you have in front of you, word for word, just as it was given to
me.
Senator KENNEDY. The report that you examined here is a substantive report on the
particular program and project. And I don't think anyone who wasn't familiar with the project - this is a personal evaluation -- could write a report on the substance of it without knowing
about it. Now, that's mine. Maybe you can't remember and recollect, and that's-Mr. GOLDMAN. No; everything I put down in there is things that I was told while I was out
there, and if there was any ancillary information involved in there I can tell you I just don't
remember that. I really don't.
At the time -- that was some years ago. At the time -- a lot of time has passed since then and I
have made quite sure that if I could recollect it at all, I would do it. If you have some papers
and you want me to certify whether yes, this is so or that is so, I can do that, but I can't recall it
mentally.
Senator KENNEDY. You just certified the principal. There are others up here.
I would like to go to Dr. Gittinger.
Mr. GITTINGER. It's Mr. Gittinger.
Senator KENNEDY. How long did you serve with the Agency?
-56Mr. GITTINGER. Twenty-six years.

Senator KENNEDY. Excuse me?
Mr. GITTINGER. Twenty-six years.
Senator KENNEDY. Twenty-six years.
And at some point you moved into the operational support side, is that correct?
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Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.

Senator KENNEDY. And did you know Sidney Gottlieb?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. And did he inform you about the research projects involving LSD?
Senator KENNEDY. It is my understanding that you were also aware of some of the drug
testing projects conducted on unwitting subjects on the west coast using the Bureau of
Narcotics people in the operation. Is that true?
Mr. GITTINGER. I was.
Senator INOUYE. Excuse me. Would you speak into the microphone? I cannot hear you.
Mr. GITTINGER. Sorry.
Senator KENNEDY. Do you know which drugs were involved in those tests?
Mr. GITTINGER. LSD. And I can't remember for sure much of the others. What is the
substance of marihuana, cannabis, is that right, that can be delivered by other than smoking?
Senator KENNEDY. Cannabis?
Mr. GITTINGER. There had been some discussion of that; yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And was heroin also used?
Mr. GITTINGER. Heroin used by CIA?
Senator KENNEDY. No. In the west coast operation.
Mr. GITTINGER. Absolutely not.
Senator KENNEDY. Now, to your knowledge, how were the drugs administered to the
unwitting subjects?
Mr. GITTINGER. I have no direct knowledge.
Senator KENNEDY. Why did you go to the safe houses?
Mr. GITTINGER. It's a very complicated story. Just in justification of myself, this came up
just, day before yesterday. I have not really had enough time to get it all straightened in my
mind, so I ramble.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, you take your time and tell us in your own words. We've got
some time here.
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1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: Testiomony of Philip Goldman and John Gitting... Page 10 of 18
Mr. GITTINGER. My responsibilities which would involve any of the period of time that
you were talking about really was not directly related to drugs at all. I was a psychologist
charged with the responsibility of trying to develop as much information as I could on various
cultures, overseas cultures, anthropological type data, if you follow what I mean. I was also
engaged in trying to work out ways and means of assessing people and understanding people.
I originally became involved in this through working on Chinese culture, and over a series of
time I was introduced to the problem of brainwashing, which is the thing that really was the
most compelling thing in relationship to this, and became charged with the responsibility of
trying to find out a little bit about interrogation techniques.
-57And among other things, we decided or I decided that one of the best sources of interrogation
techniques would be trying to locate and interview and become involved with experienced
police interrogators in the country and experienced people who had real practical knowledge
of interrogation. The reason for this is that we had become pretty well convinced after the
experience of the brainwashing problems coming out of China, that it was the techniques of
the interrogators that were causing the individuals to make confessions and so forth in
relationship to this, rather than any kind of drugging and so forth. So we were very much
interested in interrogation techniques, and this led to me being introduced to the agent in the
west coast, and I began to talk to him in connection with these interrogation techniques.
Senator KENNEDY. OK. Now, that is the agent that ran the tests on the west coast on the
unwitting people. That's where you come in, correct?
Mr. GITTINGER. If I understand -- would you say that again?
Senator KENNEDY. The name Morgan Hall has been -- that is the name that has been used.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And that is the agent that you met with.
Mr. GITTINGER. That is right.
Senator KENNEDY. And you met at the safe house.
Senator KENNEDY. Whom did you meet with in the safe house?
Mr. GITTINGER. This is the part that is hard for me to say, and I am sorry that I have to. In
connection with some work that we were doing, we needed to have some information on
sexual habits. Morgan Hall provided informants for me, to talk to in connection with the sex
habits that I was interested in trying to find information. During one period of time the safe
house, as far as I was concerned, was used for just these particular type of interviews. And I
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didn't see the red curtains.

Senator KENNEDY. Those were prostitutes, were they?
Senator KENNEDY. How many different times were you there that you had similar-Mr. GITTINGER. I couldn't possibly say with any certainty on that. Four or five times.
Senator KENNEDY. Four or five times.
Mr. GITTINGER. Over -- you remember now, the period that I'm talking about when I
would have any involvement in this is from about 1956 to 1961. So it's about a 4- or 5-year
period which is the only time that I know anything about what you are talking about here
today.
Senator KENNEDY. Did Morgan Hall make the arrangements for the prostitutes to meet
with you?
Senator KENNEDY. Did the interviews that you had have anything to do with drugs?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, as I tried to explain earlier when this was being discussed a little bit
beforehand, again I think it is pretty hard for most people now to recognize how little there
was known about drugs at the period of time that we are talking about, because the
-58drug age or the drug culture comes later on. Consequently, those of us who had any
responsibility in this area were interested in trying to get as much information as we could on
the subculture, the subculture drug groups, and obviously the Bureau of Narcotics represented
a means of doing this. Consequently, other types of things that were involved in discussions at
that time would have to do with the underground use of drugs. When I am talking about this I
am talking about the folkways in terms of unwitting use of drugs. Did these people that I was
talking to have any information about this and on rare instances they were able to tell me
about their use, and in most cases this would largely turn out to be a Mickey Finn or
something of that sort rather than anything esoteric.
I also was very much interested because we had relatively little information, believe it or not,
at that time, in terms of the various reactions that people were having to drugs. Therefore,
these people were very informative in terms of they knew a great deal of information about
reactions.
Senator KENNEDY. At least you gathered -- or am I correct in assuming that you gathered
the impression that the prostitutes that you had talked to were able to slip the drugs to people
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as I understand it. Did you form any impression on that?

Mr. GITTINGER. I certainly did not form the impression that, they did this as a rule or-Senator KENNEDY. But they bad the knowledge.
Mr. GITTINGER. They had the knowledge or some of them had had knowledge of this
being done. But again, as it turned out, it was largely in this area of knockout drops.
Senator KENNEDY. Looking back now did you form any impression about how the Agency
was actually testing the broad spectrum of social classes in these safe houses? With the large
disbursal of cash in small quantities, $100 bills and the kinds of elaborate decorations and
two-way mirrors in the bedrooms and all the rest, is there any question in your own mind what
was going on in the safe houses, or the techniques that were being used to administer these
drugs?
Mr. GITTINGER. I find it very difficult to answer that question, sir. I had absolutely no
direct knowledge there was a large number of this. I had no knowledge that anyone other than
-- than Morgan Hall was in any way involved in the unwitting administration of drugs.
Senator KENNEDY. But Gottlieb would know, would he not?
Mr. GITTINGER. I believe so, yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Could we go into the Human Ecology Foundation and talk about that
and how it was used as an instrument in terms of the support of research?
Senator KENNEDY. Could you describe it to us? Could you describe the Human Ecology
Foundation, how it functioned and how it worked?
Mr. GITTINGER. May I tell something about how it evolved, which I think is important?
Senator KENNEDY. Sure.
Mr. GITTINGER. The Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology, so-called, was
actually a -- I am confused here now as to whether I should name you names.
-59Senator KENNEDY. Well, we're not interested in names or institutions, so we prefer that you
do not. That has to be worked out in arrangements between Admiral Turner and the
individuals and the institutions.
But we're interested in what the Foundation really was and how it functioned and what its
purpose was.
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Mr. GITTINGER. Well, it was established to undertake research in the general area of the
behavioral sciences. It definitely had almost no focus or interest in, say, drug-related type of
activities except in a very minor way, because it was largely set up to attempt to gain a certain
amount of information and to fund projects which were psychological, sociological,
anthropological in character. It was established in the sense of a period of time that a lot of us
who are in it wish we could do it over again, but we were interested in trying to get together a
panel of the most representative high-level behavioral scientists we could to oversee and help
in terms of developing the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology type of program.
The Agency in effect provided the money. They did not direct the projects. Now, the fact of
the matter is, there are a lot of innocent people who received the Society for the Investigation
of Human Ecology money which I know for a fact they were never asked to do anything for
the CIA but they did get through this indirectly. They had no knowledge that they were getting
CIA money.
Senator KENNEDY. Over what period of time did this take place?
Mr. GITTINGER. As far as I was concerned , it was the period of time ending in 1961. 1
believe the Human Ecology fund finally phased out in 1965, but I was not involved in this
phasing out.
Senator KENNEDY. Can you give the range of the different sort of individual projects of the
universities in which it was active?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, it would have as many as -- I am very fuzzy on my memory on the
number of projects. It is over 10, 20, 30.
Senator KENNEDY. After it made the grants, what was the relationship of the Agency with
the results of the studies? The Foundation acquired the money to make the grants from the
Agency, and then it made the grants to these various research programs.
Senator KENNEDY. And that included eight universities as well as individual researchers?
Senator KENNEDY. Then what follow-up was there to that, sir?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, in every sense of the word, the organization was run exactly like
any other foundation, and it carried with it the same thing in terms of making certain that the
people that they had given money to used it for the purpose for which it had been granted, that
they had access to any of the reports that they had put out, but there were no strings attached to
anybody. There wasn't any reason they couldn't publish anything that they put out.
Senator KENNEDY. What, sort of budget are we talking about here?
Mr. GITTINGER. I honestly do not remember. I would guess we are talking in the realm of
about $150,000 a year, but don't hold me to that, because I don't know.
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-60Senator KENNEDY. What is your view about such funding as a professional person, in terms
of compromising the integrity of a university, sir?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, obviously, sir, insofar as today there is no question about it. I will
have to say at the time that we were doing this there was quite an entirely different kind of an
attitude, and I do know for a fact that we moved to start towards phasing out the Society for
the Investigation of Human Ecology and the Human Ecology Fund for the very reason that we
were beginning to recognize that it was moving into an area but this would be compromised.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that is commendable, both your attitude and the reasons for it, but
during that period of time it still was involved in behavior research programs, as I understand
it.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir. On its own, in connection with this, it participated again, and
these again were not CIA-directed projects, but these were all things which would
theoretically contribute to the general knowledge at the time where the things like the study of
the Hungarian refugees -- obviously, the study of the Hungarian refugees who came to this
country after the Hungarian revolt was a very useful exercise to try to get information about
the personality characteristics of the Communists and so forth.
Senator KENNEDY. Were there other foundations that were doing similar kinds of work?
Mr. GITTINGER. Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. You believe-Mr. GITTINGER. You mean, CIA, other CIA?
Senator KENNEDY. Right.
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, my answer is in the sense that I know of no other CIA foundations,
no. There were, of course, other foundations doing similar kinds of work in the United States.
Senator KENNEDY. Have you heard of the Psychological Assessments Foundation?
Mr. GITTINGER. I certainly have.
Senator KENNEDY. What was that? What function did that have?
Mr. GITTINGER. Now, this was bringing us up to a different era. I believe the functions of
that organization have nothing whatsoever to do with the things that are being talked about
here while I was associated with it.
Senator KENNEDY. Rather than getting into the work, it was another foundation, was it not?
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It was another foundation supported by the Agency?

Mr. GITTINGER. What, the Psychological Assessment?
Mr. GITTINGER. No, sir, it was not.
Senator KENNEDY. It did not get any support at all from the Agency?
Mr. GITTINGER. Oh, yes, sir. It did get support, but it was a business firm.
Senator KENNEDY. It was a business but it got support from the Agency?
Mr. GITTINGER. It got money from it, but it definitely was not in MKULTRA or in any
way associated with this.
-61Senator KENNEDY. All right. I want to thank you for your helpful testimony, Mr. Gittinger.
It is not easy to go back into the past. I think you have been very fair in your characterizations,
and I think it is quite appropriately indicated that there are different standards now from what
they were 25 years ago, and I think you have responded very fairly and completely to the
inquiries, and I think with a good deal of feeling about it.
You are a person who is obviously attempting to serve the country's interest, so I want to
thank you very much for your statement and for your helpful timeliness.
Mr. GITTINGER. Thank you, sir.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Case?
Senator CASE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sorry that I had another committee that I had
to complete the hearing with this morning before I got here.
I shall read the testimony with very great interest, and I appreciate your testimony as I have
heard it. I would like to comment just on one point, and that is, it relates to a story in the press
yesterday about part of this program involving the funding of a grant at a foreign university. I
would like to elicit from you a comment as to the additional sensitivity and difficulty that that
practice involves from your standpoint as a scientist, as well as a citizen, if you will.
Mr. GITTINGER. I will say it was after the fact thinking. It was utter stupidity the way
things worked out to have used some of this money outside the United States when it was CIA
money. I can categorically state to my knowledge, and I don't claim a complete knowledge all
the way across of the human ecology functions, but to my knowledge, and this is unfortunate,
those people did not know that they were getting money from CIA, and they were not asked to
contribute anything to CIA as such.
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Senator CASE. It would be interesting to try to examine this by turning the thing around and
thinking what we would think if this happened from a foreign official agency to our own
university. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Schweiker.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Goldman, I wonder if you would tell us what your training and educational background is?
Dr. GOLDMAN. I have already given a biography for the record.
Senator SCHWEIKER. I have not seen it. Who has it? Is it classified? We may have it for
the record, but may I ask you to briefly describe your training and background for us now? I
hope it is no secret.
Dr. GOLDMAN. Well, I was told if I was asked this to say that. I was told that by your staff
people, but I have no objection to telling you. I am a resident from Pennsylvania, southwest
Pennsylvania, Lancaster County. I went to Penn State, and I am in nutrition.
Senator SCHWEIKER. In what?
Dr. GOLDMAN. Nutrition.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Were you in charge of a section or segment of the CIA in your past
capacity?
Dr. GOLDMAN. During the time I was with that organization, I was in charge of one small
section of it, one small segment of it; yes.
-62Senator SCHWEIKER. What was the function or purpose of that section that you headed?
Dr. GOLDMAN. To provide support for the other parts of the division.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Where in the chain of command would that put you in relation to Dr.
Gottlieb?
Dr. GOLDMAN. Pretty far down the line.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Mr. Gittinger, I would just like to ask you a few questions. We
appreciate your frankness and candor with the committee, and we realize this is a very difficult
area to go into. I am not quite clear on two matters that were raised earlier. First, were the safe
houses we were talking about here used on occasion by the prostitutes you referred to?
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Mr. GITTINGER. I really have not the slightest idea.

Senator SCHWEIKER. Were the prostitutes used in any way to slip the customers drugs for
observation purposes?
Mr. GITTINGER. Not to my direct knowledge.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Would you have been in a position to know the answer to either of
these questions?
Mr. GITTINGER. May I say, probably not, and may I make an aside to explain a little bit of
this, please, sir?
Senator SCHWEIKER. Mr. Gittinger, a moment ago you mentioned brainwashing
techniques, as one area that you had, I guess, done some work in. How would you characterize
the state of the art of brainwashing today? Who has the most expertise in this field, and who is
or is not doing it in terms of other governments?
During the Korean war there was a lot of serious discussion about brainwashing techniques
being used by the North Koreans, and I am interested in finding out what the state of the art is
today, as you see it.
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, of course, there, has been a great deal of work on this, and there is
still a great deal of controversy. I can tell you that as far as I knew, by 1961, 1962, it was at
least proven to my satisfaction that brainwashing, so called, is some kind of an esoteric device
where drugs or mind- altering kinds of conditions and so forth were used, did not exist even
though "The Manchurian Candidate" as a Movie really set us back a long time, because it
made something impossible look plausible. Do you follow what I mean? But by 1962 and
1963, the general idea that we were able to come up with is that brainwashing was largely a
process of isolating a human being, keeping him out of contact, putting him under long stress
in relationship to interviewing and interrogation, and that they could produce any change that
way without having to resort to any kind of esoteric means.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Are there ways that we can ascertain this from a distance when we
see a captive prisoner either go on television, in a photograph, or at a press conference? In
other words, are there certain signs that you have learned to recognize from your technical
background, to tell when brainwashing has occurred? Or is that very difficult to do?
Mr. GITTINGER. It is difficult to do. I think it is possible now in terms of looking at a
picture of somebody who has been in enemy hands for a long period of time. We can get some
pretty good ideas of what kind of circumstances he has been under, if that is what you mean.
-63Senator SCHWEIKER. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Senator INOUYE. Thank you very much.
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Before adjourning the hearings, I would like to have the record show that Dr. Goldman and
Mr. Gittinger have voluntarily cooperated with the committee in staff interviews, that they
appear this morning voluntarily, and they are not under subpoena.
Gentlemen, I realize that this experience may have been an unhappy one and possibly a
painful one. Therefore, we thank you very much for participating this morning. We also
realize that the circumstances of that time differed very much from this day, and possibly the
national attitude, the national political attitude condoned this type of activity. So, we have not
asked you to come here as persons who have committed crimes, but rather in hope that you
can assist us in studying this problem so that it will not occur once again. In that spirit we
thank you for your participation, and we look forward to working with you further in this case.
Thank you very much.
Senator KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I would like also to thank the witnesses. These are
difficult matters, and I think all of us are very grateful.
Senator SCHWEIKER. I think the witnesses should know that though it may not always
seem that way, what we are trying to do is to probe the past and look at the policies of the past
to affect the future. I think our emphasis really is on the future, not the past, but it is important
that we learn from the past as we formulate policies and legislation for the future, I hope that
all of the witnesses who did come before us voluntarily this morning, including Admiral
Turner respect the fact that we are questioning the past to learn about the future. I think it
should be looked at in that light.
Senator KENNEDY. I think that is the spirit in which we have had these hearings. It seems to
me that from both these witnesses and others, Gottlieb knows the information and can best
respond, and we are going to make every effort in the Senate Health Committee to get Mr.
Gottlieb to appear, and we obviously look forward to cooperating with Senator Inouye and the
other members of the committee in getting the final chapter written on this, but we want to
thank you very much for your appearance here.
Senator INOUYE. The hearing will stand in recess, subject to the call of the Chair.
[Whereupon, at 12:12 p.m., the hearing was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.]
Appendix A: Testing and Use of Chemical and Biological Agents by the

Intelligence Community
Appendix B: Documents Referring to Discovery of Additional MKULTRA
Material
Appendix C: Documents Referring to Subprojects
Table of Contents
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Sign the Resolution

1900 | 1910 | 1920 | 1930 | 1940 | 1950 | 1960 | 1970 | 1980 | 1990
Table of Contents
Testimony of Philip Goldman, Former Employee, Central

Intelligence Agency
Mr. GOLDMAN. I am Philip Goldman.
Senator INOUYE. And you are a former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Over 10 years ago.
Senator INOUYE. And you were employed at the time when MKULTRA was in operation?
Mr. GOLDMAN. There were some MKULTRA's in operation at the time I was there.
-51Senator INOUYE. And Mr. John Gittinger, are you a former employee of the Central
Intelligence Agency?
Testimony of John Gittinger, Former Employee, Central

Intelligence Agency
Mr. GITTINGER. I am.
Senator INOUYE. Are you still an employee?
Mr. GITTINGER. No.
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Senator INOUYE. Were you a member of the Agency at the time MKULTRA was in
operation?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.
Senator INOUYE. Thank you. Senator Kennedy.
Senator KENNEDY. I want to welcome both of you to the committee. If we could start with
Mr. Goldman. Were you the project engineer for the safe houses in either San Francisco or
New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I know of no safe house in San Francisco.
Senator KENNEDY. How about in New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I knew of one facility that was established there, but I didn't know anything
of its operation.
Senator KENNEDY. Were you a monitor on any testing of drugs on unwitting persons in San
Francisco?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, we have a classified document here that was provided by the
Agency that lists your name as a monitor of the program and I would appreciate it if you
would look-Mr. GOLDMAN. I think the misunderstanding arises because I was project officer.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, would you take a look at that?
[Mr. Goldman inspected the document.]
Mr. GOLDMAN. This document as it states is correct. However, my-Senator KENNEDY. That document is correct?
Mr. GOLDMAN. As far as I see on the first page, the project. But my-Senator KENNEDY. Well, could I get it back, please.
That would indicate that you were a monitor of the program.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I was in charge of disbursing the moneys to Morgan Hall.
Senator KENNEDY. To whom was that?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To the individual whose name was listed at the top of that document.
Senator KENNEDY. And you knew that he was running the project in San Francisco?
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Mr. GOLDMAN. I knew he was the person who was in charge out there.
Senator KENNEDY. All right.
Mr. GOLDMAN. But I had no knowledge nor did I seek knowledge of actually what he was
doing, because there would be other things involved.
I did receive-Senator KENNEDY. What were you doing?
-52Mr. GOLDMAN. I was collecting -- I had to be sure that all the receipts that ever were turned
in balanced with the moneys that were paid out to see that everything was run all right. There
was no illegal use of funds as far as we could determine by the receipts and cash.
Senator KENNEDY. So even though the Agency document indicates that you were a monitor
for the program, one of the few monitors of that particular program which you mentioned for
San Francisco and Mill Valley, Calif., you described your responsibility only as a carrier of
money, is that correct?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I would say as a disburser or carrying out -- seeing that the moneys were
handled properly. There was within that -- I don't know what's done or what he did do in
conjunction with other people.
Senator KENNEDY. Were you responsible for the disbursement of all the funds?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I was responsible for turning over the check to him.
Senator KENNEDY. And what did you know of the program itself?
Mr. GOLDMAN. The only thing I knew of the program was what he furnished us in terms of
receipts and that sort of thing. I didn't indulge or concern myself in that.
Senator KENNEDY. You still wrote, and I'll let you examine it -- it's a classified document -but you wrote a rather substantive review of the program in May of 1963, talking about the
experiments, the factual data that had been collected, covert and realistic field trials, about the
necessity of those particular -- and talked about the effectiveness of the various programs, the
efficiency of various delivery systems. That doesn't sound to me like someone who is only-Mr. GOLDMAN. Well, if you would refresh my memory, if I could read this I would
certainly agree with whatever is said there, if it was written.
Senator KENNEDY. I am trying to gather what your role was. You've indicated first of all
that you didn't know about -- you knew about a safe house in New York; now we find out that
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you're the carrier for the resources as well and the agent in San Francisco. We find out now
that the CIA put you as a monitor. You're testifying that you only were the courier, and here
we have just one document, and there are many others that talk about the substance of that
program with your name on it and I am just trying to find out exactly what role you were
playing.
Mr. GOLDMAN. The only thing I can tell you about this and I am drawing completely on
my memory is that this individual who was in charge out there conducted these things and
reported them back to the Agency. I didn't participate in any of them. All I know was that he
furnished me with receipts for things that were done and told of the work that they had done.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that document covers more than receipts.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, it tells of what -- they had conducted work out there.
Senator KENNEDY. It describes, does it not? Read the paragraph 2.
Mr. GOLDMAN. "A number of covert"-Senator KENNEDY. Well, you can't read it, it's a classified document, and I don't know why,
quite frankly, but it relates to the substance
-53of those programs and your name is signed to the memorandums on it. I am not interested in
you trying to review for us now what is in the document, but I think it would be unfortunate if
we were left with the opinion that all you were was a courier of resources when we see a
document with your name on it, signed, that talks about the substance of the program. And
what we're interested in is the substance of the program. We have the recent documents that
were provided by the Agency, which do indicate that you were at least involved in the
substance, and I'm just trying to find out whether you're willing to tell us about that.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I am perfectly willing to tell you everything that I can remember.
Senator KENNEDY. But you can't remember anything.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I can't remember the substantive parts of these, things, I really can't.
Senator KENNEDY. Of the program that was taking place.
Do you have any greater familiarity with what was happening in New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, no.
Senator KENNEDY. And you have the same function with regards to New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. The same function with regard to New York.
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Senator KENNEDY. Did you ever go to San Francisco?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. Did you meet with the agent in charge?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And why did you meet with him?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To discuss some of the receipts and things that were there to find out if
these were indeed true expenditures and to find out if everything was going along all right for
the work that was being done.
Senator KENNEDY. What work was being done?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, the reports of these things and whatever was being done. I don't know
who he reported to but he did report to somebody.
Senator KENNEDY. You travel out there to find out about the work that's being done, and
what does he tell you, that the work is being done well and-Mr. GOLDMAN. He told me that the work that they were doing was going along,
progressing satisfactorily, but to be very frank with you-Senator KENNEDY. But he didn't tell you what the work was?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To be very frank with you, Senator, I cannot remember the things that
happened back in those days. I've been away from the company -- from the Agency for over
10 years, and that is even farther back than that, and that was just about the time when I first
engaged in this, so it was my first-Senator KENNEDY. Did they disburse a series of $100 checks, to your recollection?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I don't recollect it, but if you have it there, then they did.
Senator KENNEDY. Did you know Dr. Gottlieb?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
-54Senator KENNEDY. How did you know Dr. Gottlieb?

Mr. GOLDMAN. He had been head of the division when I was recruited.
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Senator KENNEDY. Did you talk to him about these programs? Did you have anything to do
with him during this period of time?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't have anything to do with him until I would say probably in the
sixties.
Senator KENNEDY. And can you tell us what you had to do with him then?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Just what you see there, on the papers.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that is the request for the money and he approves it.
Mr. GOLDMAN. That is the request for money and he approves it, and I am quite sure that I
probably discussed with him whether the work was going along all right, whether his reports
were being turned in, and whether he was satisfied with the way things were going and did he
have any complaints about the way other people were requesting him, but I did not engage
myself in anything he was doing.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, did you get the impression that Gottlieb knew what was going
on?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't ask.
Senator KENNEDY. But you told him that your impression that what was going on even
though you didn't know what was going on, was going on well, I guess? [Laughter.]
Mr. GOLDMAN. I told Gottlieb what you saw in there was that the things appeared to be
going along all right. I was repeating and parroting back the words that were given to me
while I was there.
Senator KENNEDY. What was the money being spent for, do you know?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No; I can't recall that, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Would you remember if we told you it was red curtains and can-can
pictures-Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Floral pictures and the rest.
Senator KENNEDY. Recorders.
Senator KENNEDY. Recorders and two-way mirrors.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Wait, hold on. You're slipping a word in there now.
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Senator KENNEDY. But you would have authorized those funds, would you not, since you
were the-Mr. GOLDMAN. Did you say two-way mirrors?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Where?
Senator KENNEDY. In the safe houses.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Where?
Senator KENNEDY. San Francisco.
Mr. GOLDMAN. No.
Senator KENNEDY. How about New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. You remember now that you approved expenditures for New York?
-55Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.

Senator KENNEDY. What were those expenditures for?
Mr. GOLDMAN. That was a transfer of money over for the use in an apartment in New York
by the Bureau of Narcotics. It was for their use.
Senator KENNEDY. Do you have any knowledge of what was going on in the apartment?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir, other than I know that it had been used, according to the
information that I have been given, it was used by the Bureau of Narcotics to make meetings
with individuals who they were interested in with regard to pushing dope -- not pushing dope,
but selling narcotics and that sort of thing.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, I am sure you had many responsibilities and it's a long time ago,
but the Agency does indicate that you were project monitor for that particular program.
Mr. GOLDMAN. That's correct.
Senator KENNEDY. Your own testimony indicates you went out to review the expenditures
of funds to find out whether they were being wisely used, that you came back and talked to the
project director, Mr. Gottlieb, to give him a progress report about what was going on out there.
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Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir, I did.

Senator KENNEDY. All those things are true, and yet you draw a complete blank in terms of
what was the project itself. That's where the record is now.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I did not go out there to review the projects nor did I come back and talk
with Mr. Gottlieb and review what I had observed in terms of any projects that they -- that is,
other parts of the Agency might have in operation there. I simply reported back those things
which were told to me by the individual out there who -- and I carried them back and they -are contained in the report that you have in front of you, word for word, just as it was given to
me.
Senator KENNEDY. The report that you examined here is a substantive report on the
particular program and project. And I don't think anyone who wasn't familiar with the project - this is a personal evaluation -- could write a report on the substance of it without knowing
about it. Now, that's mine. Maybe you can't remember and recollect, and that's-Mr. GOLDMAN. No; everything I put down in there is things that I was told while I was out
there, and if there was any ancillary information involved in there I can tell you I just don't
remember that. I really don't.
At the time -- that was some years ago. At the time -- a lot of time has passed since then and I
have made quite sure that if I could recollect it at all, I would do it. If you have some papers
and you want me to certify whether yes, this is so or that is so, I can do that, but I can't recall it
mentally.
Senator KENNEDY. You just certified the principal. There are others up here.
I would like to go to Dr. Gittinger.
Mr. GITTINGER. It's Mr. Gittinger.
Senator KENNEDY. How long did you serve with the Agency?
-56Mr. GITTINGER. Twenty-six years.

Senator KENNEDY. Excuse me?
Mr. GITTINGER. Twenty-six years.
Senator KENNEDY. Twenty-six years.
And at some point you moved into the operational support side, is that correct?
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Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.

Senator KENNEDY. And did you know Sidney Gottlieb?
Senator KENNEDY. And did he inform you about the research projects involving LSD?
Senator KENNEDY. It is my understanding that you were also aware of some of the drug
testing projects conducted on unwitting subjects on the west coast using the Bureau of
Narcotics people in the operation. Is that true?
Mr. GITTINGER. I was.
Senator INOUYE. Excuse me. Would you speak into the microphone? I cannot hear you.
Mr. GITTINGER. Sorry.
Senator KENNEDY. Do you know which drugs were involved in those tests?
Mr. GITTINGER. LSD. And I can't remember for sure much of the others. What is the
substance of marihuana, cannabis, is that right, that can be delivered by other than smoking?
Senator KENNEDY. Cannabis?
Mr. GITTINGER. There had been some discussion of that; yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And was heroin also used?
Mr. GITTINGER. Heroin used by CIA?
Senator KENNEDY. No. In the west coast operation.
Mr. GITTINGER. Absolutely not.
Senator KENNEDY. Now, to your knowledge, how were the drugs administered to the
unwitting subjects?
Mr. GITTINGER. I have no direct knowledge.
Senator KENNEDY. Why did you go to the safe houses?
Mr. GITTINGER. It's a very complicated story. Just in justification of myself, this came up
just, day before yesterday. I have not really had enough time to get it all straightened in my
mind, so I ramble.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, you take your time and tell us in your own words. We've got
some time here.
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Mr. GITTINGER. My responsibilities which would involve any of the period of time that
you were talking about really was not directly related to drugs at all. I was a psychologist
charged with the responsibility of trying to develop as much information as I could on various
cultures, overseas cultures, anthropological type data, if you follow what I mean. I was also
engaged in trying to work out ways and means of assessing people and understanding people.
I originally became involved in this through working on Chinese culture, and over a series of
time I was introduced to the problem of brainwashing, which is the thing that really was the
most compelling thing in relationship to this, and became charged with the responsibility of
trying to find out a little bit about interrogation techniques.
-57And among other things, we decided or I decided that one of the best sources of interrogation
techniques would be trying to locate and interview and become involved with experienced
police interrogators in the country and experienced people who had real practical knowledge
of interrogation. The reason for this is that we had become pretty well convinced after the
experience of the brainwashing problems coming out of China, that it was the techniques of
the interrogators that were causing the individuals to make confessions and so forth in
relationship to this, rather than any kind of drugging and so forth. So we were very much
interested in interrogation techniques, and this led to me being introduced to the agent in the
west coast, and I began to talk to him in connection with these interrogation techniques.
Senator KENNEDY. OK. Now, that is the agent that ran the tests on the west coast on the
unwitting people. That's where you come in, correct?
Mr. GITTINGER. If I understand -- would you say that again?
Senator KENNEDY. The name Morgan Hall has been -- that is the name that has been used.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And that is the agent that you met with.
Mr. GITTINGER. That is right.
Senator KENNEDY. And you met at the safe house.
Senator KENNEDY. Whom did you meet with in the safe house?
Mr. GITTINGER. This is the part that is hard for me to say, and I am sorry that I have to. In
connection with some work that we were doing, we needed to have some information on
sexual habits. Morgan Hall provided informants for me, to talk to in connection with the sex
habits that I was interested in trying to find information. During one period of time the safe
house, as far as I was concerned, was used for just these particular type of interviews. And I
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didn't see the red curtains.

Senator KENNEDY. Those were prostitutes, were they?
Senator KENNEDY. How many different times were you there that you had similar-Mr. GITTINGER. I couldn't possibly say with any certainty on that. Four or five times.
Senator KENNEDY. Four or five times.
Mr. GITTINGER. Over -- you remember now, the period that I'm talking about when I
would have any involvement in this is from about 1956 to 1961. So it's about a 4- or 5-year
period which is the only time that I know anything about what you are talking about here
today.
Senator KENNEDY. Did Morgan Hall make the arrangements for the prostitutes to meet
with you?
Senator KENNEDY. Did the interviews that you had have anything to do with drugs?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, as I tried to explain earlier when this was being discussed a little bit
beforehand, again I think it is pretty hard for most people now to recognize how little there
was known about drugs at the period of time that we are talking about, because the
-58drug age or the drug culture comes later on. Consequently, those of us who had any
responsibility in this area were interested in trying to get as much information as we could on
the subculture, the subculture drug groups, and obviously the Bureau of Narcotics represented
a means of doing this. Consequently, other types of things that were involved in discussions at
that time would have to do with the underground use of drugs. When I am talking about this I
am talking about the folkways in terms of unwitting use of drugs. Did these people that I was
talking to have any information about this and on rare instances they were able to tell me
about their use, and in most cases this would largely turn out to be a Mickey Finn or
something of that sort rather than anything esoteric.
I also was very much interested because we had relatively little information, believe it or not,
at that time, in terms of the various reactions that people were having to drugs. Therefore,
these people were very informative in terms of they knew a great deal of information about
reactions.
Senator KENNEDY. At least you gathered -- or am I correct in assuming that you gathered
the impression that the prostitutes that you had talked to were able to slip the drugs to people
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as I understand it. Did you form any impression on that?

Mr. GITTINGER. I certainly did not form the impression that, they did this as a rule or-Senator KENNEDY. But they bad the knowledge.
Mr. GITTINGER. They had the knowledge or some of them had had knowledge of this
being done. But again, as it turned out, it was largely in this area of knockout drops.
Senator KENNEDY. Looking back now did you form any impression about how the Agency
was actually testing the broad spectrum of social classes in these safe houses? With the large
disbursal of cash in small quantities, $100 bills and the kinds of elaborate decorations and
two-way mirrors in the bedrooms and all the rest, is there any question in your own mind what
was going on in the safe houses, or the techniques that were being used to administer these
drugs?
Mr. GITTINGER. I find it very difficult to answer that question, sir. I had absolutely no
direct knowledge there was a large number of this. I had no knowledge that anyone other than
-- than Morgan Hall was in any way involved in the unwitting administration of drugs.
Senator KENNEDY. But Gottlieb would know, would he not?
Mr. GITTINGER. I believe so, yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Could we go into the Human Ecology Foundation and talk about that
and how it was used as an instrument in terms of the support of research?
Senator KENNEDY. Could you describe it to us? Could you describe the Human Ecology
Foundation, how it functioned and how it worked?
Mr. GITTINGER. May I tell something about how it evolved, which I think is important?
Senator KENNEDY. Sure.
Mr. GITTINGER. The Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology, so-called, was
actually a -- I am confused here now as to whether I should name you names.
-59Senator KENNEDY. Well, we're not interested in names or institutions, so we prefer that you
do not. That has to be worked out in arrangements between Admiral Turner and the
individuals and the institutions.
But we're interested in what the Foundation really was and how it functioned and what its
purpose was.
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Mr. GITTINGER. Well, it was established to undertake research in the general area of the
behavioral sciences. It definitely had almost no focus or interest in, say, drug-related type of
activities except in a very minor way, because it was largely set up to attempt to gain a certain
amount of information and to fund projects which were psychological, sociological,
anthropological in character. It was established in the sense of a period of time that a lot of us
who are in it wish we could do it over again, but we were interested in trying to get together a
panel of the most representative high-level behavioral scientists we could to oversee and help
in terms of developing the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology type of program.
The Agency in effect provided the money. They did not direct the projects. Now, the fact of
the matter is, there are a lot of innocent people who received the Society for the Investigation
of Human Ecology money which I know for a fact they were never asked to do anything for
the CIA but they did get through this indirectly. They had no knowledge that they were getting
CIA money.
Senator KENNEDY. Over what period of time did this take place?
Mr. GITTINGER. As far as I was concerned , it was the period of time ending in 1961. 1
believe the Human Ecology fund finally phased out in 1965, but I was not involved in this
phasing out.
Senator KENNEDY. Can you give the range of the different sort of individual projects of the
universities in which it was active?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, it would have as many as -- I am very fuzzy on my memory on the
number of projects. It is over 10, 20, 30.
Senator KENNEDY. After it made the grants, what was the relationship of the Agency with
the results of the studies? The Foundation acquired the money to make the grants from the
Agency, and then it made the grants to these various research programs.
Senator KENNEDY. And that included eight universities as well as individual researchers?
Senator KENNEDY. Then what follow-up was there to that, sir?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, in every sense of the word, the organization was run exactly like
any other foundation, and it carried with it the same thing in terms of making certain that the
people that they had given money to used it for the purpose for which it had been granted, that
they had access to any of the reports that they had put out, but there were no strings attached to
anybody. There wasn't any reason they couldn't publish anything that they put out.
Senator KENNEDY. What, sort of budget are we talking about here?
Mr. GITTINGER. I honestly do not remember. I would guess we are talking in the realm of
about $150,000 a year, but don't hold me to that, because I don't know.
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-60Senator KENNEDY. What is your view about such funding as a professional person, in terms
of compromising the integrity of a university, sir?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, obviously, sir, insofar as today there is no question about it. I will
have to say at the time that we were doing this there was quite an entirely different kind of an
attitude, and I do know for a fact that we moved to start towards phasing out the Society for
the Investigation of Human Ecology and the Human Ecology Fund for the very reason that we
were beginning to recognize that it was moving into an area but this would be compromised.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that is commendable, both your attitude and the reasons for it, but
during that period of time it still was involved in behavior research programs, as I understand
it.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir. On its own, in connection with this, it participated again, and
these again were not CIA-directed projects, but these were all things which would
theoretically contribute to the general knowledge at the time where the things like the study of
the Hungarian refugees -- obviously, the study of the Hungarian refugees who came to this
country after the Hungarian revolt was a very useful exercise to try to get information about
the personality characteristics of the Communists and so forth.
Senator KENNEDY. Were there other foundations that were doing similar kinds of work?
Mr. GITTINGER. Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. You believe-Mr. GITTINGER. You mean, CIA, other CIA?
Senator KENNEDY. Right.
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, my answer is in the sense that I know of no other CIA foundations,
no. There were, of course, other foundations doing similar kinds of work in the United States.
Senator KENNEDY. Have you heard of the Psychological Assessments Foundation?
Mr. GITTINGER. I certainly have.
Senator KENNEDY. What was that? What function did that have?
Mr. GITTINGER. Now, this was bringing us up to a different era. I believe the functions of
that organization have nothing whatsoever to do with the things that are being talked about
here while I was associated with it.
Senator KENNEDY. Rather than getting into the work, it was another foundation, was it not?
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It was another foundation supported by the Agency?

Mr. GITTINGER. What, the Psychological Assessment?
Mr. GITTINGER. No, sir, it was not.
Senator KENNEDY. It did not get any support at all from the Agency?
Mr. GITTINGER. Oh, yes, sir. It did get support, but it was a business firm.
Senator KENNEDY. It was a business but it got support from the Agency?
Mr. GITTINGER. It got money from it, but it definitely was not in MKULTRA or in any
way associated with this.
-61Senator KENNEDY. All right. I want to thank you for your helpful testimony, Mr. Gittinger.
It is not easy to go back into the past. I think you have been very fair in your characterizations,
and I think it is quite appropriately indicated that there are different standards now from what
they were 25 years ago, and I think you have responded very fairly and completely to the
inquiries, and I think with a good deal of feeling about it.
You are a person who is obviously attempting to serve the country's interest, so I want to
thank you very much for your statement and for your helpful timeliness.
Mr. GITTINGER. Thank you, sir.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Case?
Senator CASE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sorry that I had another committee that I had
to complete the hearing with this morning before I got here.
I shall read the testimony with very great interest, and I appreciate your testimony as I have
heard it. I would like to comment just on one point, and that is, it relates to a story in the press
yesterday about part of this program involving the funding of a grant at a foreign university. I
would like to elicit from you a comment as to the additional sensitivity and difficulty that that
practice involves from your standpoint as a scientist, as well as a citizen, if you will.
Mr. GITTINGER. I will say it was after the fact thinking. It was utter stupidity the way
things worked out to have used some of this money outside the United States when it was CIA
money. I can categorically state to my knowledge, and I don't claim a complete knowledge all
the way across of the human ecology functions, but to my knowledge, and this is unfortunate,
those people did not know that they were getting money from CIA, and they were not asked to
contribute anything to CIA as such.
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Senator CASE. It would be interesting to try to examine this by turning the thing around and
thinking what we would think if this happened from a foreign official agency to our own
university. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Goldman, I wonder if you would tell us what your training and educational background is?
Dr. GOLDMAN. I have already given a biography for the record.
Senator SCHWEIKER. I have not seen it. Who has it? Is it classified? We may have it for
the record, but may I ask you to briefly describe your training and background for us now? I
hope it is no secret.
Dr. GOLDMAN. Well, I was told if I was asked this to say that. I was told that by your staff
people, but I have no objection to telling you. I am a resident from Pennsylvania, southwest
Pennsylvania, Lancaster County. I went to Penn State, and I am in nutrition.
Senator SCHWEIKER. In what?
Dr. GOLDMAN. Nutrition.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Were you in charge of a section or segment of the CIA in your past
capacity?
Dr. GOLDMAN. During the time I was with that organization, I was in charge of one small
section of it, one small segment of it; yes.
-62Senator SCHWEIKER. What was the function or purpose of that section that you headed?
Dr. GOLDMAN. To provide support for the other parts of the division.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Where in the chain of command would that put you in relation to Dr.
Gottlieb?
Dr. GOLDMAN. Pretty far down the line.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Mr. Gittinger, I would just like to ask you a few questions. We
appreciate your frankness and candor with the committee, and we realize this is a very difficult
area to go into. I am not quite clear on two matters that were raised earlier. First, were the safe
houses we were talking about here used on occasion by the prostitutes you referred to?
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Mr. GITTINGER. I really have not the slightest idea.

Senator SCHWEIKER. Were the prostitutes used in any way to slip the customers drugs for
observation purposes?
Mr. GITTINGER. Not to my direct knowledge.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Would you have been in a position to know the answer to either of
these questions?
Mr. GITTINGER. May I say, probably not, and may I make an aside to explain a little bit of
this, please, sir?
Senator SCHWEIKER. Mr. Gittinger, a moment ago you mentioned brainwashing
techniques, as one area that you had, I guess, done some work in. How would you characterize
the state of the art of brainwashing today? Who has the most expertise in this field, and who is
or is not doing it in terms of other governments?
During the Korean war there was a lot of serious discussion about brainwashing techniques
being used by the North Koreans, and I am interested in finding out what the state of the art is
today, as you see it.
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, of course, there, has been a great deal of work on this, and there is
still a great deal of controversy. I can tell you that as far as I knew, by 1961, 1962, it was at
least proven to my satisfaction that brainwashing, so called, is some kind of an esoteric device
where drugs or mind- altering kinds of conditions and so forth were used, did not exist even
though "The Manchurian Candidate" as a Movie really set us back a long time, because it
made something impossible look plausible. Do you follow what I mean? But by 1962 and
1963, the general idea that we were able to come up with is that brainwashing was largely a
process of isolating a human being, keeping him out of contact, putting him under long stress
in relationship to interviewing and interrogation, and that they could produce any change that
way without having to resort to any kind of esoteric means.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Are there ways that we can ascertain this from a distance when we
see a captive prisoner either go on television, in a photograph, or at a press conference? In
other words, are there certain signs that you have learned to recognize from your technical
background, to tell when brainwashing has occurred? Or is that very difficult to do?
Mr. GITTINGER. It is difficult to do. I think it is possible now in terms of looking at a
picture of somebody who has been in enemy hands for a long period of time. We can get some
pretty good ideas of what kind of circumstances he has been under, if that is what you mean.
-63Senator SCHWEIKER. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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Before adjourning the hearings, I would like to have the record show that Dr. Goldman and
Mr. Gittinger have voluntarily cooperated with the committee in staff interviews, that they
appear this morning voluntarily, and they are not under subpoena.
Gentlemen, I realize that this experience may have been an unhappy one and possibly a
painful one. Therefore, we thank you very much for participating this morning. We also
realize that the circumstances of that time differed very much from this day, and possibly the
national attitude, the national political attitude condoned this type of activity. So, we have not
asked you to come here as persons who have committed crimes, but rather in hope that you
can assist us in studying this problem so that it will not occur once again. In that spirit we
thank you for your participation, and we look forward to working with you further in this case.
Thank you very much.
Senator KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I would like also to thank the witnesses. These are
difficult matters, and I think all of us are very grateful.
Senator SCHWEIKER. I think the witnesses should know that though it may not always
seem that way, what we are trying to do is to probe the past and look at the policies of the past
to affect the future. I think our emphasis really is on the future, not the past, but it is important
that we learn from the past as we formulate policies and legislation for the future, I hope that
all of the witnesses who did come before us voluntarily this morning, including Admiral
Turner respect the fact that we are questioning the past to learn about the future. I think it
should be looked at in that light.
Senator KENNEDY. I think that is the spirit in which we have had these hearings. It seems to
me that from both these witnesses and others, Gottlieb knows the information and can best
respond, and we are going to make every effort in the Senate Health Committee to get Mr.
Gottlieb to appear, and we obviously look forward to cooperating with Senator Inouye and the
other members of the committee in getting the final chapter written on this, but we want to
thank you very much for your appearance here.
Senator INOUYE. The hearing will stand in recess, subject to the call of the Chair.
[Whereupon, at 12:12 p.m., the hearing was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.]

Material
Table of Contents
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1977 Senate MKULTRA Hearing: Appendix A--Testing and Use of Chemical and Biolog... Page 1 of 43
Sign the Resolution

1900 | 1910 | 1920 | 1930 | 1940 | 1950 | 1960 | 1970 | 1980 | 1990
APPENDIX A
XVII. Testing And Use Of Chemical And Biological Agents By The
Under its mandate [1] the Select Committee has studied the testing and use of chemical and
biological agents by intelligence agencies. Detailed descriptions of the programs conducted
by intelligence agencies involving chemical and biological agents will be included in a
separately published appendix to the Senate Select Committee's report. This section of the
report will discuss the rationale for the programs, their monitoring and control, and what the
Committee's investigation has revealed about the relationships among the intelligence
agencies and about their relations with other government agencies and private institutions
and individuals. [2]
Fears that countries hostile to the United States would use chemical and biological agents
against Americans or America's allies led to the development of a defensive program
designed to discover techniques for American intelligence agencies to detect and counteract
chemical and biological agents. The defensive orientation soon became secondary as the
possible use of these agents to obtain information from, or gain control over, enemy agents
became apparent.
Research and development programs to find materials which could be used to alter human
behavior were initiated in the late 1940s and early 1950s. These experimental programs
originally included testing of drugs involving witting human subjects, and culminated in tests
using unwitting, nonvolunteer human subjects. These tests were designed to determine the
potential effects of chemical or biological agents when used operationally against individuals
unaware that they had received a drug.
The testing programs were considered highly sensitive by the intelligence agencies
administering them. Few people, even within the agencies, knew of the programs and there is
no evidence that either the executive branch or Congress were ever informed of them. The
highly compartmented nature of these programs may be explained in part by an observation
made by the CIA Inspector General that, "the knowledge that the Agency is engaging in
unethical and illicit activi-
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http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/e1950/mkultra/AppendixA.htm
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[1] Senate Resolution 21 directs the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Activities to investigate a number
of issues:
"(a) Whether agencies within the intelligence community conducted illegal domestic activities (Section 2 (1)
and (2));
"(b) The extent to which agencies within the intelligence community cooperate (Section 2 (4) and (8));
"(c) The adequacy of executive branch and congressional oversight of intelligence activities (Section 2 (7) and
(11));
"(d) The adequacy of existing laws to safeguard the rights of American citizens (Section 2 (13))."
[2] The details of these programs may never be known. The programs were highly compartmented. Few records
were kept. What little documentation existed for the CIA's principal program was destroyed early in 1973.
(65)
-66ties would have serious repercussions in political and diplomatic circles and would be
detrimental to the accomplishment of its missions." [3]
The research and development program, and particularly the covert testing programs,
resulted in massive abridgments of the rights of American citizens, sometimes with tragic
consequences The deaths of two Americans [3a] can be attributed to these programs; other
participants in the testing programs may still suffer from the residual effects. While some
controlled testing of these substances might be defended, the nature of the tests, their scale,
and the fact that they were continued for years after the danger of surreptitious
administration of LSD to unwitting individuals was known, demonstrate a fundamental
disregard for the value of human life.
The Select Committee's investigation of the testing and use of chemical and biological agents
also raise serious questions about the adequacy of command and control procedures within
the Central Intelligence Agency and military intelligence, and about the relationships among
the intelligence agencies, other governmental agencies, and private institutions and
individuals. The CIA's normal administrative controls were waived for programs involving
chemical and biological agents to protect their security. According to the head of the Audit
Branchof the CIA, these waivers produced "gross administrative failures." They prevented
the CIA's internal review mechanisms (the Office of General Counsel, the Inspector General,
and the Audit Staff) from adequately supervising the programs. In general, the waivers had
the paradoxical effect of providing less restrictive administrative controls and less effective
internal review for controversial and highly sensitive projects than those governing normal
Agency activities.
The security of the programs was protected not only by waivers of normal administrative
controls, but also by a high degree of compartmentation within the CIA. This
compartmentation excluded the CIA's Medical Staff from the principal research and testing
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program employing chemical and biological agents.

It also may have led to agency policymakers receiving differing and inconsistent responses
when they posed questions to the CIA component involved.
Jurisdictional uncertainty within the CIA was matched by jurisdictional conflict among the
various intelligence agencies. A spirit of cooperation and reciprocal exchanges of
information which initially characterized the programs disappeared. Military testers withheld
information from the CIA, ignoring suggestions for coordination from their superiors. The
CIA similarly failed to provide information to the military on the CIA's testing program. This
failure to cooperate was conspicuously manifested in an attempt by the Army to conceal
[3] CIA Inspector General's Survey of TSD, 1957, p. 217.

[3a] On January 8, 1953, Mr. Harold Blauer died of circulatory collapse and heart failure following an
intravenous injection of a synthetic mescaline derivative while a subject of tests conducted by New York State
Psychiatric Institute under a contract let by the U.S. Army Chemical Corps. The Committee's investigation into
drug testing by U.S. intelligence agencies focused on the testing of LSD, however, the committee did receive a
copy of the U.S. Army Inspector General's Report, issued on October 1975, on the events and circumstances of
Mr. Blauer's death. His death was directly attributable to the administration of the synthetic mescaline
derivative.
-67their overseas testing program, which included surreptitious administration of LSD, from the
CIA. Learning of the Army's program, the Agency surreptitiously attempted to gain details
of it.
The decision to institute one of the Army's LSD field testing projects had been based, at least
in part, on the finding that no long-term residual effects had ever resulted from the drug's
administration. The CIA's failure to inform the Army of a death which resulted from the
surreptitious administration of LSD to unwitting Americans may well have resulted in the
institution of an unnecessary and potentially lethal program.
The development, testing, and use of chemical and biological agents by intelligence agencies
raises serious questions about the relationship between the intelligence community and
foreign governments, other agencies of the Federal Government, and other institutions and
individuals. The questions raised range from the legitimacy of American complicity in
actions abroad which violate American and foreign laws to the possible compromise of the
integrity of public and private institutions used as cover by intelligence agencies.
A. THE PROGRAMS INVESTIGATED

1. Project CHATTER
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Project CHATTER was a Navy program that began in the fall of 1947. Responding to
reports of "amazing results" achieved by the Soviets in using "truth drugs," the program
focused on the identification and testing of such drugs for use in interrogations and in the
recruitment of agents. The research included laboratory experiments on animals and human
subjects involving Anabasis aphylla, scopolamine, and mescaline in order to determine their
speech-inducing qualities. Overseas experiments were conducted as part of the project.
The project expanded substantially during the Korean War, and ended shortly after the war,
in 1953.
2. Project BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE
The earliest of the CIA's major programs involving the use of chemical and biological
agents, Project BLUEBIRD, was approved by the Director in 1950. Its objectives were:
(a) discovering means of conditioning personnel to prevent unauthorized extraction of
information from them by known means, (b) investigating the possibility of control of an
individual by application of special interrogation techniques, (c) memory enhancement, and (d)
establishing defensive means for preventing hostile control of Agency personnel. [4]
As a result of interrogations conducted overseas during the project, another goal was added - the evaluation of offensive uses of unconventional interrogation techniques, including
hypnosis and drugs. In August 1951, the project was renamed ARTICHOKE. Project
ARTICHOKE included in-house experiments on interrogation techniques, conducted "under
medical and security controls which would ensure
[4] CIA memorandum to the Select Committee, "Behavioral Drugs and Testing," 2/11/75.
-68that no damage was done to individuals who volunteer for the experiments. [5] Overseas
interrogations utilizing a combination of sodium pentothal and hypnosis after physical and
psychiatric examinations of the subjects were also part of ARTICHOKE.
The Office of Scientific Intelligence (OSI), which studied scientific advances by hostile
powers, initially led BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE efforts. In 1952, overall responsibility for
ARTICHOKE was transferred from OSI to the Inspection and Security Office (I&SO),
predecessor to the present Office of Security. The CIA's Technical Services and Medical
Staffs were to be called upon as needed; OSI would retain liaison function with other
government agencies. [6] The change in leadership from an intelligence unit to an operating
unit apparently reflected a change in emphasis; from the study of actions by hostile powers
to the use, both for offensive and defensive purposes, of special interrogation techniques -primarily hypnosis and truth serums.
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Representatives from each Agency unit involved in ARTICHOKE met almost monthly to
discuss their progress. These discussions included the planning of overseas interrogations [8]
as well as further experimentation in the U.S.
Information about project ARTICHOKE after the fall of 1953 is scarce. The CIA maintains
that the project ended in 1956, but evidence suggests that Office of Security and Office of
Medical Services use of "special interrogation" techniques continued for several years
thereafter.
3. MKNAOMI
MKNAOMI was another major CIA program in this area. In 1967, the CIA summarized the
purposes of MKNAOMI:
(a) To provide for a covert support base to meet clandestine operational requirements.
(b) To stockpile severely incapacitating and lethal materials for the specific use of TSD
[Technical Services Division].
(c) To maintain in operational readiness special and unique items for the dissemination of
biological and chemical materials.
(d) To provide for the required surveillance, testing, upgrading, and evaluation of
materials and items in order to assure absence of defects and complete predictability of
results to be expected under operational conditions. [9]
Under an agreement reached with the Army in 1952, the Special Operations Division (SOD)
at Fort Detrick was to assist CIA in developing, testing, and maintaining biological agents
and delivery
[5] Memorandum from Robert Taylor, O/DD/P to the Assistant Deputy (Inspection and Security) and Chief of
the Medical Staff, 3/22/52.
[6] Memorandum from H. Marshall Chadwell, Assistant Director, Scientific Intelligence, to the Deputy
Director/Plans (DDP) "Project ARTICHOKE," 8/29/52.
[8] "Progress Report, Project ARTICHOKE." 1/12/53.
[9] Memorandum from Chief, TSD/Biological Branch to Chief, TSD "MKNAOMI: Funding. Objectives, and
Accomplishments." 10/18/67, p. 1. For a fuller description of MKNAOMI and the relationship between CIA
and SOD, see p. 360.
-69-
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systems. By this agreement, CIA acquired the knowledge, skill, and facilities of the Army to
develop biological weapons suited for CIA use.
SOD developed darts coated with biological agents and pills containing several different
biological agents which could remain potent for weeks or months. SOD developed a special
gun for firing darts coated with a chemical which could allow CIA agents to incapacitate a
guard dog, enter an installation secretly, and return the dog to consciousness when leaving.
SOD scientists were unable to develop a similar incapacitant for humans. SOD also
physically transferred to CIA personnel biological agents in "bulk" form, and delivery
devices, including some containing biological agents.
In addition to the CIA's interest in biological weapons for use against humans, it also asked
SOD to study use of biological agents against crops and animals. In its 1967 memorandum,
the CIA stated:
Three methods and systems for carrying out a covert attack against crops and causing severe
crop loss have been developed and evaluated under field conditions. This was accomplished
in anticipation of a requirement which was later developed but was subsequently scrubbed
just prior to putting into action. [9a]
MKNAOMI was terminated in 1970. On November 25,1969, President Nixon renounced the
use of any form of biological weapons that kill or incapacitate and ordered the disposal of
existing stocks of bacteriological weapons. On February 14, 1970, the President clarified the
extent of his earlier order and indicated that toxins -- chemicals that are not living organisms
but are produced by living organisms -- were considered biological weapons subject to his
previous directive and were to be destroyed. Although instructed to relinquish control of
material held for the CIA by SOD, a CIA scientist acquired approximately 11 grams of
shellfish toxin from SOD personnel at Fort Detrick which were stored in a little-used CIA
laboratory where it went undetected for five years. [10]
4. MKULTRA
MKULTRA was the principal CIA program involving the research and development of
chemical and biological agents. It was "concerned with the research and development of
chemical, biological, and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine
operations to control human behavior." [11]
In January 1973, MKULTRA records were destroyed by Technical Services Division
personnel acting on the verbal orders of Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, Chief of TSD. Dr. Gottlieb has
testified, and former Director Helms has confirmed, that in ordering the records destroyed,
Dr. Gottlieb was carrying out the verbal order of then DCI Helms.
MKULTRA began with a proposal from the Assistant Deputy Director for Plans, Richard
Helms, to the DCI, outlining a special
[9a] Ibid. p. 2.
[10] Senate Select Committee, 9/16/75, Hearings, Vol. 1.
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[11] Memorandum from the CIA Inspector General to the Director, 7/26/63.
-70funding mechanism for highly sensitive CIA research and development projects that studied
the use of biological and chemical materials in altering human behavior. The projects
involved:
Research to develop a capability in the covert use of biological and chemical materials. This
area involves the production of various physiological conditions which could support present
or future clandestine operations. Aside from the offensive potential, the development of a
comprehensive capability in this field of covert chemical and biological warfare gives us a
thorough knowledge of the enemy's theoretical potential, thus enabling us to defend
ourselves against a foe who might not be as restrained in the use of these techniques as we
are. [12]
MKULTRA was approved by the DCI on April 13, 1953 along the lines proposed by ADDP
Helms.
Part of the rationale for the establishment of this special funding mechanism was its extreme
sensitivity. The Inspector General's survey of MKULTRA in 1963 noted the following
reasons for this sensitivity:
a. Research in the manipulation of human behavior is considered by many authorities in
medicine and related fields to be professionally unethical, therefore the reputation of
professional participants in the MKULTRA program are on occasion in jeopardy.
b. Some MKULTRA activities raise questions of legality implicit in the, original charter.
c. A final phase of the testing of MKULTRA products places the rights and interests of U.S.
citizens in jeopardy.
d. Public disclosure of some aspects of MKULTRA activity could induce serious adverse
reaction in U.S. public opinion. as well as stimulate offensive and defensive action in this
field on the part of foreign intelligence services. [13]
Over the ten-year life of the program, many "additional avenues to the control of human
behavior" were designated as appropriate for investigation under the MKULTRA charter.
These include "radiation, electroshock, various fields of psychology, psychiatry, sociology,
and anthropology, graphology, harassment substances, and paramilitary devices and
materials." [14]
The research and development of materials to be used for altering human behavior consisted
of three phases: first, the search for materials suitable for study; second, laboratory testing on
voluntary human subjects in various types of institutions; third, the application of
MKULTRA materials in normal life settings.
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The search for suitable materials was conducted through standing arrangements with
specialists in universities, pharmaceutical houses, hospitals, state and federal institutions, and
private research organi-
[12] Memorandum from ADDP Helms to DCI Dulles, 4/3/53, Tab A, pp. 1-2. [13] I.G. Report on MKULTRA,
1963, pp. 1-2. [14] Ibid, p. 4.
-71zations. The annual grants of funds to these specialists were made under ostensible research
foundation auspices, thereby concealing the CIA's interest from the specialist's institution.
The next phase of the MKULTRA program involved physicians, toxicologists, and other
specialists in mental, narcotics, and general hospitals, and in prisons. Utilizing the products
and findings of the basic research phase, they conducted intensive tests on human subjects.
One of the first studies was conducted by the National Institute of Mental Health. This study
was intended to test various drugs, including hallucinogenics, at the NIMH Addiction
Research Center in Lexington, Kentucky. The "Lexington Rehabilitation Center," as it was
then called, was a prison for drug addicts serving sentences for drug violations.
The test subjects were volunteer prisoners who, after taking a brief physical examination and
signing a general consent form, were administered hallucinogenic drugs. As a reward for
participation in the program, the addicts were provided with the drug of their addiction.
LSD was one of the materials tested in the MKULTRA program. The final phase of LSD
testing involved surreptitious administration to unwitting nonvolunteer subjects in normal
life settings by undercover officers of the Bureau of Narcotics acting for the CIA.
The rationale for such testing was "that testing of materials under accepted scientific
procedures fails to disclose the full pattern of reactions and attributions that may occur in
operational situations." [15]
According to the CIA, the advantage of the relationship with the Bureau was that
test subjects could be sought and cultivated within the setting of narcotics control. Some subjects
have been informers or members of suspect criminal elements from whom the [Bureau of
Narcotics] has obtained results of operational value through the tests. On the other hand, the
effectiveness of the substances on individuals at all social levels, high and low, native American
and foreign, is of great significance and testing has been performed on a variety of individuals
within these categories. [Emphasis added.] [16]
A special procedure, designated MKDELTA, was established to govern the use of

MKULTRA materials abroad. Such materials were used on a number of occasions. Because
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MKULTRA records were destroyed, it is impossible to reconstruct the operational use of

MKULTRA materials by the CIA overseas; it has been determined that the use of these
materials abroad began in 1953, and possibly as early as 1950.
Drugs were used primarily as an aid to interrogations, but MKULTRA/MKDELTA materials
were also used for harassment, discrediting, or disabling purposes. According to an Inspector
General Survey of the Technical Services Division of the CIA in 1957 -- an inspection which
did not discover the MKULTRA project involving the surreptitious administration of LSD to
unwitting, nonvolunteer
[15] Ibid, P. 21.

[16] Ibid., pp. 11-12.
-72subjects -- the CIA had developed six drugs for operational use and they had been used in six
different operations on a total of thirty-three subjects. [17] By 1963 the number of operations
and subjects had increased substantially.
In the spring of 1963, during a wide-ranging Inspector General survey of the Technical
Services Division, a member of the Inspector General's staff, John Vance, learned about
MKULTRA and about the project involving the surreptitious administration of LSD to
unwitting, nonvoluntary human subjects. As a result of the discovery and the Inspector
General's subsequent report, this testing was halted and much tighter administrative controls
were imposed on the program. According to the CIA, the project was decreased significantly
each budget year until its complete termination in the late 1960s.
5. The Testing of LSD by the Army
There were three major phases in the Army's testing of LSD. In the first, LSD was
administered to more than 1,000 American soldiers who volunteered to be subjects in
chemical warfare experiments. In the second phase, Material Testing Program EA 1729, 95
volunteers received LSD in clinical experiments designed to evaluate potential intelligence
uses of the drug. In the third phase, Projects THIRD CHANCE and DERBY HAT, 16
unwitting nonvolunteer subjects were interrogated after receiving LSD as part of operational
field tests.
B. CIA DRUG TESTING PROGRAMS

1. The Rationale for the Testing Programs
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1977 Senate MKULTRA Hearing: Appendix A--Testing and Use of Chemical and Biol... Page 10 of 43
The late 1910s and early 1950s were marked by concern over the threat posed by the
activities of the Soviet Union, the People's Republic of China, and other Communist bloc
countries. United States concern over the use of chemical and biological agents by these
powers was acute. The belief that hostile powers had used chemical and biological agents in
interrogations, brainwashing, and in attacks designed to harass, disable, or kill Allied
personnel created considerable pressure for a "defensive" program to investigate chemical
and biological agents so that the intelligence community could understand the mechanisms
by which these substances worked and how their effects could be defeated. [18]
Of particular concern was the drug LSD. The CIA had received reports that the Soviet Union
was engaged in intensive efforts to produce LSD; and that the Soviet Union had attempted to
purchase the world's supply of the chemical. As one CIA officer who was deeply involved in
work with this drug described the climate of the times: "[It] is awfully hard in this day and
age to reproduce how frightening all of this was to us at the time, particularly after the drug
scene has become as widespread and as knowledgeable in this country as it did. But we were
literally terrified, because this was the one material that we
[17] Ibid, 1957, p. 201.

[18] Thus an officer in the Office of Security of the CIA stressed the "urgency of the discovery of techniques
and method that would permit our personnel, in the event of their capture by the enemy, to resist or defeat
enemy interrogation." (Minutes of the ARTICHOKE conference of 10/22/53.)
-73had ever been able to locate that really had potential fantastic possibilities if used
wrongly." [19]
But the defensive orientation soon became secondary. Chemical and biological agents were
to be studied in order "to perfect techniques... for the abstraction of information from
individuals whether willing or not" and in order to "develop means for the control of the
activities and mental capacities of individuals whether willing or not." [20] One Agency
official noted that drugs would be useful in order to "gain control of bodies whether they
were willing or not" in the process of removing personnel from Europe in the event of a
Soviet attack. [21] In other programs, the CIA began to develop, produce, stockpile, and
maintain in operational readiness materials which could be used to harass, disable, or kill
specific targets. [22]
Reports of research and development in the Soviet Union, the People's Republic of China,
and the Communist Bloc countries provided the basis for the transmutation of American
programs from a defensive to an offensive orientation. As the Chief of the Medical Staff of
the Central Intelligence Agency wrote in 1952:
There is ample evidence in the reports of innumerable interrogations that the Communists were
utilizing drugs, physical duress, electric shock, and possibly hypnosis against their enemies.
With such evidence it is difficult not to keep from becoming rabid about our apparent laxity. We
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are forced by this mounting evidence to assume a more aggressive role in the development of
these techniques, but must be cautious to maintain strict inviolable control because of the havoc
that could be wrought by such techniques in unscrupulous hands. [23]
In order to meet the perceived threat to the national security, substantial programs for the
testing and use of chemical and biological agents -- including projects involving the
surreptitious administration of LSD to unwitting nonvolunteer subjects "at all social levels,
high and low, native American and foreign" -- were conceived, and implemented. These
programs resulted in substantial violations of the rights of individuals within the United
States.
[19] Testimony of CIA officer, 11/21/75, p. 33.

[20] Memorandum from the Director of Security to ARTICHOKE representatives, Subject: "ARTICHOKE
Restatement of Program."
[21] ARTICHOKE memorandum, 7/30/53.
[22] The Inspector General's Report of 1957 on the Technical Services Division noted that "Six specific
products have been developed and are available for operational use. Three of them are discrediting and
disabling materials which can be administered unwittingly and permit the exercise of a measure of control over
the actions of the subject."
A memorandum for the Chief, TSD, Biological Branch to the Chief, TSD, 10/18/67, described two of the
objectives of the CIA's Project MKNAOMI as: "to stockpile severely incapacitating and lethal materials for the
specific use of TSD and "to maintain in operational readiness special and unique items for the dissemination of
biological and chemical materials."
[23] Memorandum from the Chief of the Medical Staff, 1/25/52.
-74Although the CIA recognized these effects of LSD to unwitting individuals within the United
States, the project continued. As the Deputy Director for Plans, Richard Helms, wrote the
Deputy Director of Central Intelligence during discussions which led to tile cessation of
unwitting testing:
While I share your uneasiness and distaste for any program which tends to intrude upon an
individual's private and legal prerogatives, I believe it is necessary that the Agency maintain
a central role in this activity, keep current on enemy capabilities the manipulation of human
behavior, and maintain an offensive capability. [25]
There were no attempts to secure approval for the most controversial aspects of these
programs from the executive branch or Congress. The nature and extent of the programs
were closely held secrets; even DCI McCone was not briefed on all the details of the
program involving the surreptitious administration of LSD until 1963. It was deemed
imperative that these programs be concealed from the American people. As the CIA's
Inspector General wrote in 1957:
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Precautions must be taken not only to protect operations from exposure to enemy forces but
also to conceal these activities from the American public in general. The knowledge that the
Agency is engaging in unethical and illicit activities would have serious repercussions in
political and diplomatic circles and would be detrimental to the accomplishment of its
mission. [26]
2. The Death of Dr. Frank Olson
The most tragic result of the testing of LSD by the CIA was the death of Dr. Frank Olson, a
civilian employee of the Army, who died on November 27, 1953. His death followed his
participation in a CIA experiment with LSD. As part of this experiment, Olson unwittingly
received approximately 70 micrograms of LSD in a glass of Cointreau he drank on
November 19, 1953. The drug had been placed in the bottle by a CIA officer, Dr. Robert
Lashbrook, as part of an experiment he and Dr. Sidney Gottlieb performed at a meeting of
Army and CIA scientists.
Shortly after this experiment, Olson exhibited symptoms of paranoia and schizophrenia.
Accompanied by Dr. Lashbrook, Olson sought psychiatric assistance in New York City from
a physician, Dr. Harold Abramson, whose research on LSD had been funded indirectly by
the CIA. While in New York for treatment, Olson fell to his death from a tenth story window
in the Statler Hotel.
[24] Even during the discussions which led to the termination of the unwitting testing, the DDP turned down
the option of halting such tests within the. U.S. and continuing them abroad despite the fact that the Technical
Services Division had conducted numerous operations abroad making use of LSD. The DDP made this decision
on the basis of security noting that the past efforts, overseas had resulted in "making an inordinate number of
foreign nationals witting of our role in the very sensitive activity." (Memorandum for the Deputy Director of
Central Intelligence from the Deputy Director for Plans, 12/17/63, p. 2.)
[25] Ibid., pp. 2-3.
[26] I.G. survey of TSD, 1957, p. 217.
-75a. Background. -- Olson, an expert in aerobiology who was assigned to the Special
Operations Division (SOD) of the U.S. Army Biological Center at Camp Detrick, Maryland.
This Division had three primary functions:
(1) assessing the vulnerability of American installations to biological attack;
(2) developing techniques for offensive use of biological weapons; and
(3) biological research for the CIA. [27]
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Professionally, Olson was well respected by his colleagues in both the Army and the CIA.
Colonel Vincent Ruwet, Olson's immediate superior at the time of his death, was in almost
daily contact with Olson. According to Colonel Ruwet: "As a professional man... his
ability... was outstanding." [28] Colonel Ruwet stated that "during the period prior to the
experiment... I noticed nothing which would lead me to believe that he was of unsound
mind." [29] Dr. Lashbrook, who had monthly contacts with Olson from early 1952 until the
time of his death, stated publicly that before Olson received LSD, "as far as I know, he was
perfectly normal." [30] This assessment is in direct contradiction to certain statements
evaluating Olson's emotional stability made in CIA internal memorandum written after
Olson's death.
b. The Experiment. -- On November 18, 1953, a group of ten scientists from the CIA and
Camp Detrick attended a semi-annual review and analysis conference at a cabin located at
Deep Creek Lake, Maryland. Three of the participants were from the CIA's Technical
Services Staff. The Detrick representatives were all from the Special Operations Division.
According to one CIA official, the Special Operations Division participants "agreed that an
unwitting experiment would be desirable." [31] This account directly contradicts Vincent
Ruwet's recollection. Ruwet recalls no such discussion, and has asserted that he would
remember any such discussion because the SOD participants would have strenuously
objected to testing on unwitting subjects. [32]
In May, 1953, Richard Helms, Assistant DDP, held a staff meeting which the Chief of
Technical Services Staff attended. At this meeting Helms "indicated that the drug [LSD] was
dynamite and that he should be advised at all times when it was intended to use it." [33] In
addition, the then DDP, Frank Wisner, sent a memorandum to TSS stating the requirement
that the DDP personally approve the use of LSD. Gottlieb went ahead with the experiment,
[34] securing the ap-
[27] Staff summary of Vincent Ruwet Interview, 8/13/75, p. 3.

[28] Memorandum of Col. Vincent Ruwet, To Whom It May Concern, no date, p. 2.
[29] Ruwet Memorandum, p. 3.
[30] Joseph B. Treaster, New York Times, 7/19/75, p. 1.
[31] Memorandum for the Record from Lyman Kirkpatrick, 12/1/53, p. 1.
[32] Ruwet (staff summary), 8/1.3/75, p. 6.
[33] Inspector General Diary, 12/2/53.
[34] Ibid. Dr. Gottleib has testified that he does not remember either the meeting with Helms nor the Wisner
memorandum. (Gottlieb, 10/18/75, p. 16.)
-76-
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proval of his immediate supervisor. Neither the Chief of TSS nor the DDP specifically
authorized the experiment in which Dr. Olson participated. [35]
According to Gottlieb, [36] " a "very small dose" of LSD was placed in a bottle of Cointreau
which was served after dinner on Thursday, November 19. The drug was placed in the
liqueur by Robert Lashbrook. All but two of tie SOD participants received LSD. One did not
drink; the other had a heart condition. [37] About twenty minutes after they finished their
Cointreau, Gottlieb informed the other participants that they had received LSD.
Dr. Gottlieb stated that "up to the time of the experiment," he observed nothing unusual in
Olson's behavior. [37a] Once the experiment was underway, Gottlieb recalled that "the drug
had a definite effect on the group to the point that they were boisterous and laughing and
they could not continue the meeting or engage in sensible conversation." The meeting
continued until about 1: 00 a.m., when the participants retired for the evening. Gottlieb
recalled that Olson, among others, complained of "wakefulness" during the night. [38]
According to Gottlieb on Friday morning "aside from some evidence of fatigue, I observed
nothing unusual in [Olson's] actions, conversation, or general behavior." [39] Ruwet recalls
that Olson "appeared to be agitated" at breakfast, but that he "did not consider this to be
abnormal under the circumstances." [40]
c. The Treatment. -- The following Monday, November 23, Olson was waiting for Ruwet
when he came in to work at 7:30 a.m. For the next two days Olson's friends and family
attempted to reassure him and help him "snap out" of what appeared to be a serious
depression. On Tuesday, Olson again came to Ruwet and, after an hour long con-
[35] Dr. Gottlieb testified that "given the information we knew up to this time, and based on a lot of our own
self-administration, we thought it was a fairly benign substance in terms of potential harm." This is in conflict
not only with Mr. Helms' statement but also with material which had been supplied to the Technical Services
Staff. In one long memorandum on current research with LSD which was supplied to TSD, Henry Beecher
described the dangers involved with such research in a prophetic manner. "The second reason to doubt
Professor Rothland came when I raised the question as to any accidents which had arisen from the use of LSD25. He said in a very positive way, 'none.' As it turned out this answer could be called overly positive, for later
on in the evening I was discussing the matter with Dr. W. A. Stohl, Jr., a psychiatrist in Bleulera's Clinic in
Zurich where I had gone at Rothland's insistence. Stohl, when asked the same question, replied, 'yes,' and added
spontaneously, 'there is a case Professor Rothland knows about. In Geneva a woman physician who had been
subject to depression to some extent took LSD-25 in an experiment and became severely and suddenly
depressed and committed suicide three weeks later. While the connection is not definite, common knowledge of
this could hardly have allowed the positive statement Rothland permitted himself. This case is a warning to us
to avoid engaging subjects who are depressed, or who have been subject to depression.'" Dr. Gottlieb testified
that he had no recollection of either the report or that particular section of it. (Sidney Gottlieb testimony,
10/19/75, p. 78.)
[36] Memorandum of Sheffield Edwards for the record, 11/28/53, p. 2.
[37] Lashbrook (staff summary), 7/19/75, p. 3.
[37a] Gottlieb Memorandum, 12/7/53. p. 2.
[38] Edwards memorandum, 11/28/53, p. 3.
[39] Gottlieb memorandum. 12/7/53, p. 3.
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[40] Ruwet memorandum, p. 3.
-77versation, it was decided that medical assistance for Dr. Olson was desirable. [41]
Ruwet then called Lashbrook and informed him that "Dr. Olson was in serious trouble and
needed immediate professional attention." [42] Lashbrook agreed to make appropriate
arrangements and told Ruwet to bring Olson to Washington, D.C. Ruwet and Olson
proceeded to Washington to meet with Lashbrook, and the three left for New York at about
2:30 p.m. to meet with Dr. Harold Abramson.
At that time Dr. Abramson was an allergist and immunologist practicing medicine in New
York City. He held no degree in psychiatry, but was associated with research projects
supported indirectly by the CIA. Gottlieb and Dr. Lashbrook both followed his work closely
in the early 1950s. [43] Since Olson needed medical help, they turned to Dr. Abramson as
the doctor closest to Washington who was experienced with LSD and cleared by the CIA.
Ruwet, Lashbrook, and Olson remained in New York for two days of consultations with
Abramson. On Thursday, November 26, 1953, the three flew back to Washington so that
Olson could spend Thanksgiving with his family. En route from the airport Olson told Ruwet
that he was afraid to face his family. After a lengthy discussion, it was decided that Olson
and Lashbrook would return to New York, and that Ruwet would go to Frederick to explain
these events to Mrs. Olson. [44]
Lashbrook and Olson flew back to New York the same day, again for consultations with
Abramson. They spent Thursday night in a Long Island hotel and the next morning returned
to the city with Abramson. In further discussions with Abramson, it was agreed that Olson
should be placed under regular psychiatric care at an institution closer to his home. [45]
d. The Death. -- Because they could not obtain air transportation for a return trip on Friday
night, Lashbrook and Olson made reservations for Saturday morning and checked into the
Statler Hotel. Between the time they checked in and 10:00 p.m.; they watched television,
visited the cocktail lounge, where each had two martinis, and dinner. According to
Lashbrook, Olson "was cheerful and appeared to enjoy the entertainment." He "appeared no
longer particularly depressed, and almost the Dr. Olson I knew prior to the experiment." [46]
After dinner Lashbrook and Olson watched television for about an hour, and at 11:00, Olson
suggested that they go to bed, saying that "he felt more relaxed and contented than he had
since [they] came to New York." [47] Olson then left a call with the hotel operator to wake
them in the morning. At approximately 2:30 a.m. Saturday, November 28. Lashbrook was
awakened by a loud "crash of glass." In his report on the incident, he stated only that Olson
"had crashed through the closed window blind and the closed window and he fell to his death
from the window of our room on the 10th floor." [48]
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[41] Ibid., p. 4.
[42] Lashbrook memorandum, 12/7/53, p. 1.
[43] Staff summary of Dr. Harold Abramson interview, 7/29/75, p. 2.
[44] Lashbrook memorandum, 12/7/53, P. 3.
[45] Abramson memorandum, 12/4/53.
[46] Lashbrook memorandum, 12/7/53, p. 3.
[47] Ibid., p. 4.
[48] Ibid.
-78Immediately after finding that Olson had leapt to his death, Lashbrook telephoned Gottlieb at
his home and informed him of the incident. [49] Gottlieb called Ruwet and informed him of
Olson's death at approximately 2:45 a.m. [50] Lashbrook then called the hotel desk and
reported the incident to the operator there. Lashbrook called Abramson and informed him of
the occurrence. Abramson told Lashbrook he "wanted to be kept out of the thing
completely," but later changed his mind and agreed to assist Lashbrook. [51]
Shortly thereafter, uniformed police officers and some hotel employees came to Lashbrook's
room. Lashbrook told the police he didn't know why Olson had committed suicide, but he
did know that Olson "suffered from ulcers." [52]
e. The Aftermath. -- Following Dr. Olson's death, the CIA made a substantial effort to ensure
that his family received death benefits, but did not notify the Olsons of the circumstances
surrounding his demise. The Agency also made considerable efforts to prevent the death
being connected with the CIA, and supplied complete cover for Lashbrook so that his
association with the CIA would remain a secret.
After Dr. Olson's death the CIA conducted an internal investigation of the incident. As part
of his responsibilities in this investigation, the General Counsel wrote the Inspector General,
stating:
I'm not happy with what seems to be a very casual attitude on the part of TSS representatives
to the way this experiment was conducted and the remarks that this is just one of the risks
running with scientific experimentation. I do not eliminate the need for taking risks, but I do
believe, especially when human health or life is at stake, that at least the prudent, reasonable
measures which can be taken to minimize the risk must be taken and failure to do so was
culpable negligence. The actions of the various individuals concerned after effects of the
experiment on Dr. Olson became manifest also revealed the failure to observe normal and
reasonable precautions. [53]
As a result of the investigation DCI Allen Dulles sent a personal letter to the Chief of
Technical Operations of the Technical Services Staff who had approved the experiment
criticizing him for "poor judgment... in authorizing the use of this drug on such an unwitting
basis and without proximate medical safeguards." [54] Dulles also sent a letter to Dr.
Gottlieb, Chief of the Chemical Division of the Technical Services Staff, criticizing him for
recommending the "unwitting application of the drug" in that the proposal "did not give
sufficient emphasis for medical collaboration and for the proper consideration of the rights of
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the individual to whom it was being administered." [55]
[49] CIA Field Office Report, 12/3/53, p. 3.

[50] Ruwet Memorandum, p. 11.
[51] CIA Field Office Report, 12/3/53, p. 3.
[52] Ibid.
[53] Memorandum from the General Counsel to the Inspector General. 1/4/54.
[54] Memorandum from DCI to Chief, Technical Operations, TSS, 2/12/54.
[55] Memorandum from DCI to Sidney Gottlieb, 2/12/54.
-79The letters were hand carried to the individuals to be read and returned. Although the letters
were critical, a note from the Deputy Director of Central Intelligence to Mr. Helms
instructed him to inform the individuals that: "These are not reprimands and no personnel
file notation are being made." [56]
Thus, although the Rockefeller Commission has characterized them as such, these notes
were explicitly not reprimands. Nor did participation in the events which led to Dr. Olson's
death have any apparent effect on the advancement within the CIA of the individuals
involved.
3. The Surreptitious Administration of LSD to Unwitting NonVolunteer Human Subjects by
the CIA After the Death of Dr. Olson
The death of Dr. Olson could be viewed, as some argued at the time, as a tragic accident, one
of the risks inherent in the testing of new substances. It might be argued that LSD was
thought to be benign. After the death of Dr. Olson the dangers of the surreptitious
administration of LSD were clear, yet the CIA continued or initiated [57] a project involving
the surreptitious administration of LSD to nonvolunteer human subjects. This program
exposed numerous individuals in the United States to the risk of death or serious injury
without their informed consent, without medical supervision, and without necessary followup to determine any long-term effects.
Prior to the Olson experiment, the Director of Central Intelligence had approved
MKULTRA, a research program designed to develop a "capability in the covert use of
biological and chemical agent materials." In the proposal describing MKULTRA Mr. Helms,
then ADDP, wrote the Director that:
we intend to investigate the development of a chemical material which causes a reversible nontoxic aberrant mental state, the specific nature of which can be reasonably well predicted for
each individual. This material 'could potentially aid in discrediting individuals, eliciting
information, and implanting suggestions and other forms of mental control. [58]
On February 12, 1954, the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency wrote TSS officials
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criticizing them for "poor judgment" in administering LSD on "an unwitting basis and
without proximate medical safeguards" to Dr. Olson and for the lack of "proper
consideration of the rights of the individual to whom it was being administered." [59] On the
same day, the Inspector General reviewed a report on Subproject Number 3 of MKULTRA,
in which the same TSS officers who had just received letters from the Director were quoted
as stating that one of the purposes of Subproject Number 3 was to
[56] Note from DDCI to Richard Helms, 2/13/54.

[57] The 1963 IG Report, which described the project involving the surreptitious administration of LSD, placed
the project beginning In 1955. Other CIA documents reveal that it was in existence as early as February 1954.
The CIA has told the Committee that the project began in 1953 and that the experiment which led to Dr.
Olson's death was part of the project.
[58] Memorandum from ADDP items to DOI Dulles, 4/3/53, tab A, p. 2.
[59] Memorandum from DCI to Sidney Gottlieb, 2/12/54; and memorandum from DCI to Chief of operations,
TSS, 2/12/54.
-80"observe the behavior of unwitting persons being questioned after having been given a
drug." [60] There is no evidence that Subproject Number 3 was terminated even though the
officers were unequivocally aware of the dangers of the surreptitious administration of LSD
and the necessity of obtaining informed consent and providing medical safeguards.
Subproject Number 3, in fact, used methods which showed even less concern than did the
OLSON experiment for the safety and security of the participants. Yet the evidence indicates
the project continued until 1963. [61]
In the project, the individual conducting the test might make initial contact with a
prospective subject selected at random in a bar. He would then invite the person to a
"safehouse" where the test drug was administered to the subject through drink or in food.
CIA personnel might debrief the individual conducting the test, or observe the test by using a
one-way mirror and tape recorder in an adjoining room.
Prior consent was obviously not obtained from any of the subjects. There was also,
obviously, no medical prescreening. In addition, the tests were conducted by individuals who
were not qualified scientific observers. There were no medical personnel on hand either to
administer the drugs or to observe their effects, and no follow-up was conducted on the test
subjects.
As the Inspector General noted in 1963:
A significant limitation on the effectiveness of such testing is the infeasibility of performing
scientific observation of results. The [individuals conducting the test] are not qualified scientific
observers. Their subjects are seldom accessible beyond the first hours of the test. The testing
may be useful in perfecting delivery techniques, and in identifying surface characteristics of
onset, reaction, attribution, and side-effect. [62]
This was particularly troublesome as in a

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number of instances,... the test subject has become ill for hours or days, including hospitalization
in at least one case, and the agent could only follow up by guarded inquiry after the test subject's
return to normal life. Possible sickness and attendant economic loss are inherent contingent
effects of the testing. [61]
Paradoxically, greater care seems to have been taken for the safety of foreign nationals
against whom LSD was used abroad. In several cases medical examinations were performed
prior to the use of LSD. [64]
[60] Memorandum to Inspector General from Chief, Inspection and Review, on Subproject #3 of MKULTRA,
2/10/54.
[61] IG Report on MKULTRA, 1903.
[62] Ibid., p. 12.
[63] Ibid. According to the IG's survey in 1963, physicians associated with MKULTRA could be made
available in an emergency.
[64] The Technical Services Division which was responsible for the operational use of LSD abroad took the
position that "no physical examination of the subject is required prior to administration of [LSD] by TSS
trained personnel. A physician need not be present. There is no danger medically in the use of this material as
handled by TSS trained personnel." The Office of Medical Services had taken the position that LSD was
"medically dangerous." Both the Office of Security and the Office of Medical Services argued that LSD
"should not be administered unless preceded by a medical examination... and should be administered only by or
in the presence of a physician who had studied it and its effect." (Memorandum from James Angleton, Chief,
Counterintelligence Staff to Chief of Operations, 12/12/57, pp. 1-2.
-81Moreover, the administration abroad was marked by constant observation made possible
because the material was being used against prisoners of foreign intelligence or security
organizations. Finally, during certain of the LSD interrogations abroad, local physicians
were on call, though these physicians had had no experience with LSD and would not be told
that hallucinogens had been administered. [65]
The CIA's project involving the surreptitious administration of LSD to unwitting human
subjects in the United States was finally halted in 1963, as a result of its discovery during the
course of an Inspector General survey of the Technical Services Division. When the
Inspector General learned of the project, he spoke to the Deputy Director for Plans, who
agreed that the Director should be briefed. The DDP made it clear that the DCI and his
Deputy were generally familiar with MKULTRA. He indicated, however, that he was not
sure it was necessary to brief the DDCI at that point.
On May 24,1963, the DDP advised the Inspector General that he had briefed the Director on
the MKULTRA program and in particular had covered the question of the surreptitious
administration of LSD to unwitting human subjects. According to the Inspector General, the
DDP said that "the Director indicated no disagreement and therefore the testing will
continue." [66]
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One copy of an "Eyes Only" draft report on MKULTRA was prepared by the Inspector
General who recommended the termination of the surreptitious administration project. The
project was suspended following the Inspector General's report.
On December 17, 1963, Deputy Director for Plans Helms wrote a memo to the DDCI, who
with the Inspector General and the Executive Director-Comptroller had opposed the covert
testing. He noted two aspects of the problem: (1) "for over a decade the Clandestine Services
has had the mission of maintaining a capability for influencing human behavior;" and (2)
"testing arrangements in furtherance of this mission should be as operationally realistic and
yet as controllable as possible." Helms argued that the individuals must be "unwitting" as
this was "the only realistic method of maintaining the capability, considering the intended
operational use of materials to influence human behavior as the operational targets will
certainly be unwitting. Should the subjects of the testing not be unwitting, the program
would only be "pro forma" resulting in a "false sense of accomplishment and readiness." [67]
Helms continued:
[65] Physicians might be called with the hope that they would make a diagnosis of mental breakdown which
would be useful in discrediting the individual who was the subject of the CIA interest.
[66] Memorandum for the Record prepared by the Inspector General, 5/15/63, p. 1.
[67] Ibid., p. 2.
-82If one grants the validity of the mission of maintaining this unusual capability and the
necessity for unwitting testing, there is only then the question of how best to do it.
Obviously, the testing should be conducted in such a manner as to permit the opportunity to
observe the results of the administration on the target. It also goes without saying that
whatever testing arrangement we adopt must afford maximum safeguards for the protection
of the Agency's role in this activity, as well as minimizing the possibility of physical or
emotional damage to the individual tested. [68]
In another memo to the Director of Central Intelligence in June, 1964, Helms again raised
the issue of unwitting testing. At that time General Carter, then acting DCI, approved several
changes in the MKULTRA program proposed by Mr. Helms as a result of negotiations
between the Inspector General and the DDP. In a handwritten note, however, Director Carter
added that "unwitting testing will be subject to a separate decision." [69]
No specific decision was made then or soon after. The testing had been halted and, according
to Walter Elder, Executive Assistant to DCI McCone, the DCI was not inclined to take the
positive step of authorizing a resumption of the testing. At least through the summer, the
DDP did not press the issue. On November 9, 1964, the DDP raised the issue again in a
memo to the DCI, calling the Director's attention to what he described as "several other
indications during the past year of an apparent Soviet aggressiveness in the field of covertly
administered chemicals which are, to say the least, inexplicable and disturbing." [70]
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Helms noted that because of the suspension of covert testing, the Agency's "positive
operational capability to use drugs is diminishing, owing to a lack of realistic testing. With
increasing knowledge of the state of the art, we are less capable of staying up with Soviet
advances in this field. This in turn results in a waning capability on our part to restrain others
in the intelligence community (such as the Department of Defense) from pursuing operations
in this area." [71]
Helms attributed the cessation of the unwitting testing to the high risk of embarrassment to
the Agency as well as the "moral problem." He noted that no better covert situation had been
devised than that which had been used, and that "we have no answer to the moral issue." [72]
Helms asked for either resumption of the testing project or its definitive cancellation. He
argued that the status quo of a research and development program without a realistic testing
program was causing the Agency to live "with the illusion of a capability which is becoming
minimal and furthermore is expensive." [73] Once again no formal action was taken in
response to the Helms' request.
[68] Memorandum from DDP Helms to DDCI Carter, 12/17/63.

[69] Memorandum from DDP Helms to DCI, 6/9/64, p. 3.
[70] Ibid., 11/9/64, p. 1.
[71] Ibid., pp. 1-2.
[72] Ibid., p. 2.
[73] Ibid.
-83From its beginning in the early 1950's until its termination in 1963, the program of
surreptitious administration of LSD to unwitting nonvolunteer human subjects demonstrates
a failure of the CIA's leadership to pay adequate attention to the rights of individuals and to
provide effective guidance to CIA employees. Though it was known that the testing was
dangerous, the lives of subjects were placed in jeopardy and their rights were ignored during
the ten years of testing which followed Dr. Olson's death. Although it was clear that the laws
of the United States were being violated, the testing continued. While the individuals
involved in the Olson experiment were admonished by the Director, at the same time they
were also told that they were not being reprimanded and that their "bad judgment" would not
be made part of their personnel records. When the covert testing project was terminated in
1963, none of the individuals involved were subject to any disciplinary action.
4. Monitoring and Control of the Testing and Use of Chemical and Biological Agents by the
CIA
The Select Committee found numerous failures in the monitoring and control of the testing
and use of chemical and biological agents within the CIA. [74] An analysis of the failures
can be divided into four sections: (a) the waiver of normal regulations or requirements; (b)
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the problems in authorization procedures; (c) the failure of internal review mechanisms such
as the Office of General Counsel, the Inspector General, and the Audit Staff; and (d) the
effect of compartmentation and competition within the CIA.
a. The Waiver of Administrative Controls. -- The internal controls within any agency rest on:
(1) clear and coherent regulations; (2) clear lines of authority; and (3) clear rewards for those
who conduct themselves in accord with agency regulations and understandable and
immediate sanctions against those who do not. In the case of the testing and use of chemical
and biological agents, normal CIA administrative controls were waived. The destruction of
the documents on the largest CIA program in this area constituted a prominent example of
the waiver of normal Agency procedures by the Director.
These documents were destroyed in early 1973 at the order of then DCI Richard Helms.
According to Helms, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, then Director of TSD:
... came to me and said that he was retiring and that I was retiring and he thought it would be a
good idea if these files were destroyed. And I also believe part of the reason for our thinking this
was advisable was there had been relationships with outsiders in government agencies and other
organizations and that these would be sensitive in this kind of a thing but that since the program
was over and finished and done with, we thought we would just get rid of the files as
[74] Section 2(9) of S. Res. 21 instructs the Committee to examine: the "extent to which United States
intelligence agencies are governed by Executive Orders, rules, or regulations either published or secret."
-84well, so that anybody who assisted us in the past would not be subject to follow-up or questions,
embarrassment, if you will. [75]
The destruction was based on a waiver of an internal CIA regulation, CSI 70-10, which
regulated the "retirement of inactive records." As Thomas Karamessines, then Deputy
Director of Plans, wrote in regulation CSI-70-10: "Retirement is not a matter of convenience
or of storage but of conscious judgment in the application of the rules modified by
knowledge of individual component needs. The heart of this judgment is to ensure that the
complete story can be reconstructed in later years and by people who may be unfamiliar with
the events." [76]
The destruction of the MKULTRA documents made it impossible for the Select Committee
to determine the full range and extent of the largest CIA research program involving
chemical and biological agents. The destruction also prevented the CIA from locating and
providing medical assistance to the individuals who were subjects in the program. Finally, it
prevented the Committee from determining the full extent of the operations which made use
of materials developed in the MKULTRA program. [77]
From the inception of MKULTRA normal Agency procedures were waived. In 1953, Mr.
Helms, then Assistant Deputy Director for Plans, proposed the establishment of MKULTRA.
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Under the proposal six percent of the research and development budget of TSD would be
expended "without the establishment of formal contractual relations" because contracts
would reveal government interest. Helms also voted that qualified individuals in the field
"are most reluctant to enter into signed agreements of any sort which connect them with this
activity since such a connection would jeopardize their professional reputa-
[75] Richard Helms testimony, 9/11/75, p. 5.

Many Agency documents recording confidential relationships with individuals and organizations are retained
without public disclosure. Moreover, in the case of MKULTRA the CIA had spent millions of dollars
developing both materials and delivery systems which could be used by the Clandestine Services; the
reconstruction of the research and development program would be difficult if not impossible, without the
documents, and at least one assistant to Dr. Gottlieb protested against the document destruction on those
grounds.
[76] Clandestine Services Institution (CSI) 70-10. When asked by the Select Committee about the regularity of
the procedure by which he authorized Dr. Gottlieb to destroy the MKULTRA records, Helms responded:
"Well, that's hard to say whether it would be part of the regular procedure or not, because the record destruction
program is conducted according to a certain pattern. There's a regular record destruction pattern in the Agency
monitored by certain people and done a certain way. So that anything outside of that, I suppose, would have
been unusual. In other words, there were documents being destroyed because somebody had raised this specific
issue rather than because they were encompassed in the regular records destruction program. So I think the
answer to your question is probably yes." (Helms testimony, 9/11/75, p. 6.)
[77] Even prior to the destruction of documents, the MKULTRA records were far from complete. As the
Inspector General noted in 1963:
"Files are notably incomplete, poorly organized, and lacking in evaluative statements that might give
perspective to management policies over time. A substantial portion of the MKULTRA record appears to rest in
the memories of the principal officers and is therefore almost certain to be lost with their departures." (IG
Report on MKULTRA, p. 23.)
-85tions". [78] Other Agency procedures, i.e., the forwarding of document, in support of
invoices and the provision for regular audit procedures, were also to be waived. On April 13,
1953, then DCI Allen Dulles approved MKULTRA, noting that security considerations
precluded handling the project through usual contractual agreements.
Ten years later investigations of MKULTRA by both the Inspector General and the Audit
Staff noted substantial deficiencies which resulted from the waivers. Because TSD had not
reserved the right to audit the books of contractors in MKULTRA, the CIA had been unable
to verify the use of Agency grants by a contractor. Another firm had failed to establish
controls and safeguards which would assure "proper accountability" in use of government
funds with the result that "funds have been used for purposes not contemplated by grants or
allowable under usual contract relationship." [79] The entire MKULTRA arrangement was
condemned for having administrative lines which were unclear, overly permissive controls,
and irresponsible supervision.
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The head of the Audit Branch noted that inspections and audits: led us to see MKULTRA as
frequently having provided a device to escape normal administrative controls for research
that is not especially sensitive, as having allowed practices that produce gross administrative
failures, as having permitted the establishment of special relationships with unreliable
organizations on an unacceptable basis, and as having produced, on at least one occasion, a.
cavalier treatment of a bona fide contracting organization.
While admitting that there may be a need for special mechanisms for handling sensitive
projects, the Chief of the Audit Branch wrote that "both the terms of reference and the
ground rules for handling such special projects should be spelled out in advance so that
diversion from normal channels does not mean abandonment of controls.
Special procedures may be necessary to ensure the security of highly sensitive operations. To
prevent the erosion of normal internal control mechanisms, such waivers should not be
extended to less sensitive operations. Moreover, only those regulations which would
endanger security should be waived; to waive regulations generally would result in highly
sensitive and controversial projects having looser rather than stricter administrative controls.
MKNAOMI, the Fort Detrick CIA project for research and development of chemical and
biological agents, provides another example where efforts to protect the security of agency
activities overwhelmed administrative controls. No written records of the transfer of agents
such as anthrax or shellfish toxin were kept, "because of the sensitivity of the area and the
desire to keep any possible use of materials like this recordless." [81] The
[78] Memorandum from ADDP Helms to DCI Dulles, 4/3/53, Tab. A, p. 2.

[79] Memorandum from IG to Chief, TSD, 11/8/63, as quoted in memorandum from Chief, Audit Branch.
[80] The memorandum suggested that administrative exclusions, because of the importance of such decisions,
should require the personal approval of the Deputy Director of Central Intelligence on an individual case basis.
Present CIA policy is that only the DCI can authorize certain exemptions from regulations.
[81] Sidney Gottlieb testimony, 10/18/75, Hearings, Vol. 1, p. 51.
-86result was that the Agency had no way of determining what materials were on hand, and
could not be certain whether delivery systems such as dart guns, or deadly substances such
as cobra venom had been issued to the field.
b. Authorization. -- The destruction of the documents regarding MKULTRA made it difficult
to determine at what level specific projects in the program were authorized. This problem is
not solely a result of the document destruction, however. Even at the height of MKULTRA
the IG noted that, at least with respect to the surreptitious administration of LSD, the
"present practice is to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test
programs." [82]
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While it is clear that Allen Dulles authorized MKULTRA, the record is unclear as to who
authorized specific projects such as that involving the surreptitious administration of LSD to
unwitting nonvolunteer human subjects. Even given the sensitive and controversial nature of
the project, there is no evidence that when John McCone replaced Allen Dulles as the
Director of the Central Intelligence Agency he was briefed on the details of this project and
asked whether it should be continued . [83] Even during the 1963 discussions on the
propriety of unwitting testing, the DDP questioned whether it was "necessary to brief
General Carter", the Deputy Director of Central Intelligence and the Director's "alter ago,"
because CIA officers felt it necessary to keep details of the project restricted to an absolute
minimum number of people. [84]
In May of 1963, DDP Helms told the Inspector General that the covert testing program was
authorized because he had gone to the Director, briefed him on it and "the Director indicated
no disagreement and therefore the testing will continue." [85] Such authorization even for
noncontroversial matters is clearly less desirable than explicit authorization; in areas such as
the surreptitious administration of drugs, it is particularly undesirable. Yet according to
testimony
[82] IG Report on MKULTRA, 1963, p. 14.

[83] According to an assistant to Dr. Gottlieb, there were annual briefings of the DCI and the DDP on
MKULTRA by the Chief of TSD or his deputy. However, a Nay 15, 1963 Memorandum for the Record from
the Inspector General noted that Mr. McCone had not been briefed in detail about the program. Mr. McCone's
Executive Officer, Walter Elder, testified that it was "perfectly apparent to me" that neither Mr. McCone nor
General Carter, then the DDCI, was aware of the surreptitious administration project "or if they had been
briefed they had not understood it." (Elder, 12/18/75, p. 13.) Mr. McCone testified that lie "did not know"
whether he talked to anyone about the project but that no one had told him about it in a way that "would have
turned on all the lights." (John McCone testimony, 2/3/76, p. 10.)
[84] According to Elder's testimony, "no Deputy Director, to my knowledge, has ever been briefed or was it
ever thought necessary to brief them to the extent to which you would brief the Director."
[85] IG Memorandum for the Record. 5/15/63.
On the question of authorization of the covert testing program, Elder testified as follows:
"But my reasonable judgment is that this was considered to be in the area of continuing approval, having once
been approved by the Director."
The theory of authorization carrying over from one administration to the next seems particularly inappropriate
for less visible, highly sensitive operations which, unless brought to his attention by subordinates, would not
come to the attention of the Director.
-87before the Committee, authorization through lack of agreement is even more prevalent in
sensitive situations. [86]
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The unauthorized retention of shellfish toxin by Dr. Nathan Gordon and his subordinates, in
violation of a Presidential Directive, may have resulted from the failure of the Director to
issue written instructions to Agency officials. The retention was not authorized by senior
officials in the Agency. The Director, Mr. Helms, had instructed Mr. Karamessines, the
Deputy Director of Plans, and Dr. Gottlieb, the Chief of Technical Services Division, to
relinquish control to the Army of any chemical or biological agents being retained for the
CIA at Fort Detrick. Dr. Gottlieb passed this instruction on to Dr. Gordon. While orders may
be disregarded in any organization, one of the reasons that Dr. Gordon used to defend the
retention was the fact that he had not received written instructions forbidding it. [87]
In some situations the existence of written instructions did not prevent unauthorized actions.
According to an investigation by the CIA's Inspector General TSD officers had been
informed orally that Mr. Helms was to be "advised at all times" when LSD was to be used. In
addition TSD had received a memo advising the staff that LSD was not to be used without
the permission of the DDP, Frank Wisner. The experiment involving Dr. Olson went ahead
without notification of either Mr. Wisner or Mr. Helms. The absence of clear and immediate
punishment for that act must undercut the force of other internal instructions and regulations.
One last issue must be raised about authorization procedures within the Agency. Chemical
agents were used abroad until 1959 for discrediting or disabling operations, or for the
purpose of interrogations with the approval of the Chief of Operations of the DDP. Later the
approval of the Deputy Director for Plans was required for such operations. Although the
medical staff sought to be part of the approval process for these operations, they were
excluded because, as the Inspector General wrote in 1957:
Operational determinations are the responsibility of the DDP and it is he who should advise
the DCI in these respects just as it is he who is responsible for the results. It is completely
unrealistic to consider assigning to the Chief Medical Staff, (what, in effect, would be
authority over clandestine operations.) [88]
Given the expertise and training of physicians, participation of the Medical Staff might well
have been useful.
Questions about authorization also exist in regard to those, agencies which assisted the CIA.
For instance, the project involving the surreptitious administration of LSD to unwitting nonvolunteer human subjects was conducted in coordination with the Bureau of Narcotics and
Dangerous Drugs. There is some question as to the Commissioner of Narcotics' knowledge
about the project.
[86] Mr. Elder was asked whether the process of bringing forward a description of actions by the Agency in
getting approval through the absence of disagreement was a common one. He responded, "It was not
uncommon.... The more sensitive the project the more likely it would lean toward being a common practice,
based on the need to keep the written record to a minimum."
[87] Nathan Gordan testimony, 9/16/75, Hearings, Vol. 1.
[88] 1957 IG Report.
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-88In 1963, the Inspector General noted that the head of the BNDD had been briefed about the
project, but the IG's report did not indicate the level of detail provided to him. Dr. Gottlieb
testified that "I remember meeting Mr. Anslinger and had the general feeling that he was
aware." [89] Another CIA officer did not recall any discussion of testing on unwitting
subjects when he and Dr. Gottlieb met with Commissioner Anslinger.
In a memorandum for the record in 1967 Dr. Gottlieb stated that Harry Giordano, who
replaced Mr. Anslinger, told Dr. Gottlieb that when he became Commissioner he was "only
generally briefed on the arrangements, gave it his general blessing, and said he didn't want to
know the details." The same memorandum states, however, that there were several
comments which indicated to Dr. Gottlieb that Mr. Giordano was aware of the substance of
the project. It is possible that the Commissioner provided a general authorization for the
arrangement without understanding what it entailed or considering its propriety. A reluctance
to seek detailed information from the CIA, and the CIA's hesitancy to volunteer it, has been
found in a number of instances during the Select Committee's investigations. This problem is
not confined to the executive branch but has also marked congressional relationships with
the Agency.
c. Internal Review. -- The waiver of regulations and the absence of documentation make it
difficult to determine now who authorized which activities. More importantly, they made
internal Agency review mechanisms much less effective. [90] Controversial and highly
sensitive projects which should have been subject to the most rigorous inspection lacked
effective internal review.
Given the role of the General Counsel and his reaction to the surreptitious administration of
LSD to Dr. Olson, it would have seemed likely that he would be asked about the legality or
propriety of any subsequent projects involving such administration. This was not done. He
did not learn about this testing until the 1970's. Nor was the General Counsel's opinion
sought on other MKULTRA projects, though these had been characterized by the Inspector
General in the 1957 Report on TSD as "unethical and illicit." [91]
There is no mention in the report of the 1957 Inspector General's survey of TSD of the
project involving the surreptitious administration of LSD. That project was apparently not
brought to the attention of the survey team. The Inspector who discovered it during the IG's
1963 survey of TSD recalls coming upon evidence of it inadvertently,
[89] Gottlieb, 10/18/75, p. 28.

[90] The IG's report on MKULTRA in 1963 stated:
"The original charter documents specified that TSD maintain exacting control of MKULTRA activities. in so
doing, however, TSD has pursued a philosophy of minimum documentation in keeping with the high sensitivity
of some of the projects. Some files were found to present a reasonably complete record, including most
sensitive matters, while others with parallel objectives contained little or no data at all. The lack of consistent
records precluded use of routine inspection procedures and raised a variety of questions concerning
management and fiscal controls."
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[91] CIA, Inspector General's report on TSD, 1957, p. 217.
-89rather than its having been called to his attention as an especially sensitive project. [92]
Thus both the General Counsel and the Inspector General, the principal internal mechanisms
for the control of possibly improper actions, were excluded from regular reviews of the
project. When the project was discovered the Executive Director Comptroller voiced strong
opposition to it; it is possible that the project would have been terminated in 1957 if it had
been called to his attention when he then served as Inspector General.
The Audit Staff, which also serves an internal review function through the examination of
Agency expenditures, also encountered substantial difficulty with MKULTRA. When
MKULTRA was first proposed the Audit Staff was to be excluded from any function. This
was soon changed. However, the waiver of normal "contractual procedures" in MKULTRA
increased the likelihood of "irregularities" as well as the difficulty in detecting them. The
head of the Audit Branch characterized the MKULTRA procedures as "having allowed
practices that produced gross administrative failures," including a lack of controls within
outside contractors which would "assure proper accountability in use of government funds."
It also diminished the CIA's capacity to verify the accountings provided by outside firms.
d. Compartmentation and Jurisdictional Conflict Within the Agency. -- As has been noted,
the testing and use of chemical and biological agents was treated as a highly sensitive
activity within the CIA. This resulted in a high degree of compartmentation. At the same
time substantial jurisdictional conflict existed within the Agency between the Technical
Services Division, and the Office of Medical Services and the Office of Security.
This compartmentation and jurisdictional conflict may well have led to duplication of effort
within the CIA and to Agency policymakers being deprived of useful information.
During the early 1950's first the BLUEBIRD Committee and then the ARTICHOKE
Committee were instituted to bring together representatives of the Agency components
which had a legitimate interest in the area of the alteration of human behavior. By 1957 both
these committees had fallen into disuse. No information went to the Technical Services
Division (a component supposedly represented on the ARTICHOKE Committee) about
ARTICHOKE operations being conducted by the Office of Security and the Office of
Medical Services. The Technical Services Division which was providing support to the
Clandestine Services in the use of chemical and biological agents, but provided little or no
information to either the Office of Security or the Office of Medical Services. As one TSD
officer involved in these programs testified: "Although we were acquainted, we certainly
didn't share experiences." [93]
[92] Even after the Inspector came upon it the IG did not perform a complete investigation of it. It was
discovered at the end of an extensive survey of TSD and the Inspector was in the process of being transferred to
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another post within the Agency.

[93] Testimony of CIA officer, 11/21/75, p. 14.
-90QKHILLTOP, another group designed to coordinate research in this area also had little
success. The group met infrequently -- only twice a year -- and little specific information
was exchanged. [94]
Concern over security obviously played some role in the failure to share information, [95]
but this appears not to be the only reason. A TSD officer stated that the Office, of Medical
Services simply wasn't "particularly interested in what we were doing" and never sought
such information. [96] On the other hand, a representative of the Office of Medical Services
consistently sought to have medical personnel participate in the use of chemical and
biological agents suggested that TSD did not inform the Office of Medical Services in order
to prevent their involvement.
Jurisdictional conflict was constant in this area. The Office of Security, which had been
assigned responsibility for direction of ARTICHOKE, consistently sought to bring TSD
operations involving psychochemicals under the ARTICHOKE umbrella. The Office of
Medical Services sought to have OMS physicians advise and participate in the operational
use of drugs. As the Inspector General described it in 1957, "the basic issue is concerned
with the extent of authority that should be exercised by the Chief, Medical Staff, over the
activities of TSD which encroach upon or enter into the medical field," and which are
conducted by TSD "without seeking the prior approval of the Chief, Medical Staff, and often
without informing him of their nature and extent." [91]
As was noted previously, because the projects and programs of TSD stemmed directly from
operational needs controlled by the DDP, the IG recommended no further supervision of
these activities by the Medical Staff:
It is completely unrealistic to consider assigning to the Chief, Medical Staff, what, in effect,
would be authority over clandestine operations. Furthermore, some of the activities of
Chemical Division are not only unorthodox but unethical and sometimes illegal. The DDP is
in a better position to evaluate the justification for such operations than the Chief, Medical
Staff. [98] [Emphasis added.]
Because the advice of the Director of Security was needed for "evaluating the risks involved"
in the programs and because the knowledge that the CIA was "engaging in unethical and
illicit activities would have serious repercussions in political and diplomatic circles," the IG
recommended that the Director of Security be fully advised of TSD's activities in these areas.
Even after the Inspector General's Report of 1957, the compartmentation and jurisdictional
conflict continued. They may have had a sub-
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[94] The one set of minutes from a QKHILLTOP meeting indicated that individuals in the Office of Medical
Services stressed the need for more contact.
[95] When asked why information on the surreptitious administration of LSD was not presented to the
ARTICHOKE committee, Dr. Gottlieb responded: "I imagine the only reason would have been a concern for
broadening the awareness of its existence."
[96] CIA Officer, 11/21/75, p. 14
[97] IG Survey of TSD, 1957, p. 217.
[98] Ibid.
-91stantial negative impact on policymaking in the Agency. As the Deputy Chief of the
Counterintelligence Staff noted in 1958, due to the different positions taken by TSS, the
Office of Security, and the Office of Medical Services, on the use of chemical or biological
agents, it was possible that the individual who authorized the use of a chemical or biological
agent could be presented with "incomplete facts upon which to make a decision relevant to
its use." Even a committee set up by the DDP in 1958 to attempt to rationalize Agency
policy did not have access to records of testing and use. This was due, in part, to excessive
compartmentation, and jurisdictional conflict.
C. Covert Testing On Human Subjects By Military Intelligence Groups:

Material Testing Program EA 1729, Project Third Change, and Project
Derby Hat
EA 1729 is the designator used in the Army drug testing program for lysergic acid
diethylamide (LSD). Interest in LSD was originally aroused at the Army's Chemical Warfare
Laboratories by open literature on the unusual effects of the compound. [99] The positive
intelligence and counterintelligence potential envisioned for compounds like LSD, and
suspected Soviet interest in such materials, [100] supported the development of an American
military capability and resulted in experiments conducted jointly by the U.S. Army
Intelligence Board and the Chemical Warfare Laboratories.
These experiments, designed to evaluate potential intelligence uses of LSD, were known
collectively as "Material Testing Program EA 1729." Two projects of particular interest
conducted as part of these experiments, "THIRD CHANCE" and "DERBY HAT", involved
the administration of LSD to unwitting subjects in Europe and the Far East.
In many respects, the Army's testing programs duplicated research which had already been
conducted by the CIA. They certainly involved the risks inherent in the early phases of drug
testing. In the Army's tests, as with those of the CIA, individual rights were also
subordinated to national security considerations; informed consent and followup
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examinations of subjects were neglected in efforts to maintain the secrecy of the tests.
Finally, the command and control problems which were apparent in the CIA's programs are
paralleled by a lack of clear authorization and supervision in the Army's programs.
[99] USAINTC staff study, "Material Testing Program, EA 1729," 10/15/59, p. 4.

[100] This same USAINTC study cited "A 1952 (several years prior to initial U.S. interest in LSD-25) report
that the Soviets purchased a large quantity of LSD-25 from the Sandoz Company in 1951, reputed to be
sufficient for 50 million doses." (Ibid., p. 16.)
Generally accepted Soviet methods and counterintelligence concerns were also strong motivating factors in the
initiation of this research:
"A primary justification for field experimentation in intelligence with EA 1729 is the counter-intelligence or
defense implication. We know that the enemy philosophy condones any kind of coercion or violence for
intelligence purposes. There is proof that his intelligence service has used drugs in the past. There is strong
evidence of keen interest in EA 1729 by him. If for no other purpose than to know what to expect from enemy
intelligence use of the material and to, thus, be prepared to counter it, field experimentation is justified. (Ibid, p.
34)
-921. Scope of Testing

Between 1955 and 1958 research was initiated by the Army Chemical Corps to evaluate the
potential for LSD as a chemical warfare incapacitating agent. In the course of this research,
LSD was administered to more than 1,000 American volunteers who then participated in a
series of tests designed to ascertain the effects of the drug on their ability to function as
soldiers. With the exception of one set of tests at Fort Bragg, these and subsequent laboratory
experiments to evaluate chemical warfare potential were conducted at the Army Chemical
Warfare Laboratories, Edgewood, Maryland.
In 1958 a new series of laboratory tests were initiated at Edgewood. These experiments were
conducted as the initial phase of Material Testing Program EA 1729 to evaluate the
intelligence potential of LSD, and included LSD tests on 95 volunteers. [101] As part of
these tests, three structured experiments were conducted:
1. LSD was administered surreptitiously at a simulated social reception to volunteer subjects
who were unaware of the purpose or nature of the tests in which they were participating;
2. LSD was administered to volunteers who were subsequently polygraphed; and
3. LSD was administered to volunteers who were then confined to "isolation chambers".
These structured experiments were designed to evaluate the validity of the traditional
security training all subjects had undergone in the face of unconventional, drug enhanced,
interrogations.
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At the conclusion of the laboratory test phase of Material Testing Program EA 1729 in 1960,
the Army Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorized operational field testing
of LSD. The first field tests were conducted in Europe by an Army Special Purpose Team
(SPT) during the period from May to August of 1961. These tests were known as Project
THIRD CHANCE and involved eleven separate interrogations of ten subjects. None of the
subjects were volunteers and none were aware that they were to receive LSD. All but one
subject, a U.S. soldier implicated in the theft of classified documents, were alleged to be
foreign intelligence sources or agents. While interrogations of these individuals were only
moderately successful, at least one subject (the U.S. soldier) exhibited symptoms of severe
paranoia while under the influence of the drug.
The second series of field tests, Project DERBY HAT, were conducted by an Army SPT in
the Far East during the period from August to November of 1962. Seven subjects were
interrogated under DERBY HAT, all of whom were foreign nationals either suspected of
dealing in narcotics or implicated in foreign intelligence operations. The purpose of this
second set of experiments was to collect additional data on the utility of LSD in field
interrogations, and to evaluate any different effects the drug might have on "Orientals."
[101] Inspector General of the Army Report. "Use of Volunteers in Chemical Agent Research," 3/10/76, p. 138.
-932. Inadequate Coordination Among Intelligence Agencies

On October 15, 1959, the U.S. Army Intelligence Center prepared a lengthy staff study on
Material Testing Program EA 1729. The stated purpose of the staff study was: "to determine
the desirability of EA 1729 on non-US subjects in selected actual operations under controlled
conditions. [102] It was on the basis of this study that operational field tests were later
conducted.
After noting that the Chemical Warfare Laboratories began experiments with LSD on
humans in 1955 and had administered the drug to over 1,000 volunteers, the "background"
section of the study concluded:
There has not been a single case of residual ill effect. Study of the prolific scientific literature
on LSD-25 and personal communication between U.S. Army Chemical Corps personnel and
other researchers in this field have failed to disclose an authenticated instance of irreversible
change being produced in normal humans by the drug. [103]
This conclusion was reached despite an awareness that there were inherent medical dangers
in such experimentation. In the body of this same study it is noted that:
The view has been expressed that EA 1729 is a potentially dangerous drug, whose
pharmaceutical actions are not fully understood and there has been cited the possibility of the
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continuance of a chemically induced psychosis in chronic form, particularly if a latent

schizophrenic were a subject, with consequent claim or representation against the U.S.
Government. [104]
An attempt was made to minimize potential medical hazards by careful selection of subjects
prior to field tests. Rejecting evidence that the drug might be hazardous, the study continued:
The claim of possible permanent damage caused by EA 1729 is an unproven hypothesis
based on the characteristic effect of the material. While the added stress of a real situation
may increase the probability of permanent adverse effect, the resulting risk is deemed to be
slight by the medical research personnel of the Chemical Warfare Laboratories. To prevent
even such a slight risk, the proposed plan for field experimentation calls for overt, if
possible, or contrived-through-ruse, if necessary, physical and mental examination of any
real situation subject prior to employment of the subject. [105]
This conclusion was drawn six years after one death had occurred which could be attributed,
at least in part, to the effects of the very drug the Army was proposing to field test. The
USAINTC staff, however, was apparently unaware of the circumstances surrounding Dr.
Olson's death. This lack of knowledge is indicative of the
[102] USAINTC staff study, "Material Testing Program EA 1729," 10/15/59, p. 4.

[103] Ibid, p. 4.
[104] Ibid, p. 25.
[105] Ibid.
-94general lack of interagency communication on drug related research. As the October 1959
study noted, "there has been no coordination with other intelligence agencies up to the
present." [106]
On December 7, 1959, the Army Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence (ACSI, apparently
a General Willems) was briefed on the proposed operational use of LSD by USAINTC
Project Officer Jacobson, in preparation for Project THIRD CHANCE. General Willems
expressed concern that the project had not been coordinated with the FBI and the CIA. He is
quoted as saying "that if this project is going to be worth anything, it [LSD] should be used
on higher types of non-U.S. subjects" in other words "staffers." He indicated this could be
accomplished if the CIA were brought in. The summary of the briefing prepared by Major
Mehovsky continues: "Of particular note is that ACSI did not direct coordination with CIA
and the FBI but only mentioned it for consideration by the planners." [107]
After the briefing, four colonels, two lieutenant colonels and Major Mehovsky met to discuss
interagency cooperation with CIA and FBI. The group consensus was to postpone efforts
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toward coordination:
Lt. Col. Jacobson commented that before we coordinate with CIA we should have more
factual findings from field experimentation with counterintelligence cases that will
strengthen our position and proposal for cooperation. This approach red to by the conferees.
[108]
Had such coordination been achieved, the safety of these experiments might have been
viewed differently and the tests themselves might have been seen as unnecessary.
3. Subordination of Individual Rights to National Security Considerations
Just as many of these experiments may have been unnecessary, the nature of the operational
tests (polygraph-assisted interrogations of drugged suspects) reflects a basic disregard for the
fundamental human rights of the subjects. The interrogation of an American soldier as part
of the THIRD CHANCE 1961 tests is an example of this disregard.
The "trip report" for Project THIRD CHANCE, dated September 6, 1961, recounts the
circumstances surrounding and the results of the tests as follows:
[The subject] was a U.S. soldier who had confessed to theft of classified documents.
Conventional methods had failed to ascertain whether espionage intent was involved. A
significant, new admission by subject that he told a fellow soldier of the theft while he still
had the documents in his possession was obtained during the EA 1729 interrogation along
with other variations of Subject's previous account. The interrogation results were deemed by
the local operational authority satisfactory evidence of Subject's claim of innocence in regard
to espionage intent. [109]
[106] Ibid, p. 6
[107] Mehovsky Fact Sheet, 12/9/60, p. 1.
[108] Ibid, p. 2.
[109] SPT Trip Report, Operation THIRD CHANCE, 9/6/61, p. 5.
-95The subject apparently reacted very strongly to the drug, and the interrogation, while
productive, was difficult. The trip report concluded:
(1) This case demonstrated the ability to interrogate a subject profitably throughout a highly
sustained and almost incapacitating reaction to EA 1729.
(2) The apparent value of bringing a subject into the EA 1729 situation in a highly stressed
state was indicated.
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(3) The usefulness of employing as a duress factor the device of inviting the subject's
attention to his EA 1729 influenced state and threatening to extend this state indefinitely
even to a permanent condition of insanity, or to bring it to an end at the discretion of the
interrogators was shown to be effective.
(4) The need for preplanned precautions against extreme paranoiac reaction to EA 1729 was
indicated.
(5) It was brought to attention by this case that where subject has undergone extended
intensive interrogation prior to the EA 1729 episode and has persisted in a version repeatedly
during conventional interrogation, adherence to the same version while under EA 1729
influence, however extreme the reaction, may not necessarily be evidence of truth but merely
the ability to adhere to a well rehearsed story. [110]
This strong reaction to the drug and the accompanying discomfort this individual suffered
were exploited by the use of traditional interrogation techniques. While there is no evidence
that physical violence or torture were employed in connection with this interrogation,
physical and psychological techniques were used in the THIRD CHANCE experiments to
exploit the subjects' altered mental state, and to maximize the stress situation. Jacobson
described these methods in his trip report:
Stressing techniques employed included silent treatment before or after EA 1729
administration, sustained conventional interrogation prior to EA 1729 interrogation,
deprivation of food, drink, sleep or bodily evacuation, sustained isolation prior to EA 1729
administration, hot-cold switches in approach, duress "pitches", verbal degradation and
bodily discomfort, or dramatized threats to subject's life or mental health. [111]
Another gross violation of an individual's fundamental rights occurred in September 1962 as
part of the Army's DERBY HAT tests in the Far East. A suspected Asian espionage agent
was given 6 micrograms of LSD per kilogram of bodyweight. The administration of the drug
was completed at 1035 that morning:
At 1120, sweating became evident, his pulse became thready. He was placed in a supine
position. He began groaning with expiration and became semicomatose. [112]
[110] Ibid, pp. 17-18.

[111] Ibid, p. 13.
[112] "DERBY HAT" Medical and Pharmacological Report: Case #1, 9/20/62, 1). p. D10-2.
-96For the next 28 minutes, the subject remained semicomatose.

At 1148, responses to painful stimuli were slightly improved.
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At 1155, he was helped to a sitting position.

At 1200, he became shocky again and was returned to supine position.
At 1212, he was more alert and able to sit up with help.
At 1220, Subject was assisted to the interrogation table.
At 1230, he began moaning he wanted to die and usually ignored questions. Rarely he stated
"he didn't know."
At 1250, his phasic alertness persisted. He frequently refocused his eyes with eyelid
assistance. He frequently threw his head back with eyes closed.
At 1330, he was slightly more alert. He was forced-walked for 5 minutes. He physically
would cooperate until he became shocky again (sweating, thready pulse, pale). [113]
For the next three hours the subject remained in about the same condition. Continued
attempts at interrogation yielded no relevant answers. Six hours after receiving the drug, the
subject began giving relevant answers to questions. Eight and one-half hours after the initial
dosage, the subject was polygraphed. The interrogation continued for seventeen and one-half
hours after the drug was administered.
There was some psychological and medical screening of the individuals tested within the
United States, in Europe, and in Asia. The proposal for the field experimentation in fact
called for such examinations. The fact of prescreening did not eliminate tile risk of injury;
the availability of medical staff did, however, limit injury and may well have prevented the
death of one or more of the subjects. As the medical corps member of the team which
surreptitiously administered the LSD noted, "one subject... did collapse after the
interrogation and the presence of the medical officer was not only of value to the subject but
to the interrogation team who were thus assured that an unnecessary untoward result would
not occur." [115]
In the October 15, 1959, USAINTC staff study, moral and legal ramifications of covert
administration of LSD in field conditions were considered.
It was always a tenet of Army Intelligence that the basic American principle of the dignity
and welfare of the individual will not be violated. A more meticulous regard for the
prohibition against violence or duress is taken in practice when the suspect is a US citizen or
ally as against an actual or potential enemy, in peace as against war, and in respect to the
nature of the crime.... In intelligence, the stakes involved and the interests of national
security may permit a more tolerant interpretation of moral-ethical values, but not legal
limits, through necessity. Any claim
[113] Ibid., p. D10-3.

[115] SPT Trip Report, Operation THIRD CHANCE, 7/25/61, p. 1.
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-97against the US Government for alleged injury due to EA 1729 must be legally shown to have
been due to the material. Proper security and appropriate operational techniques can protect
the fact of employment of EA 1729. [116]
On the basis of this evaluation, the study concluded that in view of "the stakes involved and
the interests of national security," the proposed plan for field testing should be approved.
The surreptitious administration of drugs to unwitting subjects by the Army raises serious
constitutional and legal issues. The consideration given these issues by the Army was wholly
insufficient. The character of the Army's volunteer testing program and the possibility that
drugs were simply substituted for other forms of violence or duress in field interrogations
raises serious doubts as to whether national security imperatives were properly interpreted.
The "consent" forms which each American volunteer signed prior to the administration of
LSD are a case in point. These forms contained no mention of the medical and psychological
risks inherent in such testing, nor do they mention the nature of the psychotropic drug to be
administered:
The general nature of the experiments in which I have volunteered have been explained to
me from the standpoint of possible hazards to my health. It is my understanding that the
experiments are so designed, based on the results of animals and previous human
experimentation, that the anticipated results will justify the performance of the experiment. I
understand further that experiments will be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical
and medical suffering and injury, and that I will be at liberty to request that the experiments
be terminated at any time if in my opinion I have reached the physical or mental state where
continuation of the experiments becomes undesirable.
I recognize that in the pursuit of certain experiments transitory discomfort may occur. I
recognize, also, that under these circumstances, I must rely upon the skill and wisdom of the
physician supervising the experiment to institute whatever medical or surgical measures are
indicated. [Emphasis added.] [118]
The exclusion of any specific discussion of the nature of LSD in these forms raises serious
doubts as to their validity. An "understanding... that the anticipated results will justify the
performance of the experiment" without full knowledge of the nature of the experiment is an
incomplete "understanding." Similarly, the nature of the experiment limited the ability of
both the subject to request its request its termination and the experimenter to implement such
a request. Finally, the euphemistic characterization of "transitory discomfort" and the
agreement to "rely on the skill and wisdom of the physician" combine to conceal inherent
risks in the experimentation and may be viewed as dissolving the experimenter of personal
responsibility for damaging aftereffects. In summary, a "volunteer" program in which
subjects are not fully informed of potential hazards to their persons is "volunteer" in name
only.
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[116] USAINTC staff study, Material Testing Program EA 1729," 10/15/59, p. 26.
[118] Sample volunteer consent form.
-98This problem was compounded by the security statements signed by each volunteer before
he participated in the testing. As part of this statement, potential subjects agreed that they
would:
... not divulge or make available any information related to U.S. Army Intelligence Center
interest or participation in the Department of the Army Medical Research Volunteer Program
to any individual, nation, organization, business, association, or other group or entity, not
officially authorized to receive such information.
I understand that any action contrary to the provisions of this statement will render me liable
to punishment under the provisions of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. [119]
Under these provisions, a volunteer experiencing aftereffects of the test might have been
unable to seek immediate medical assistance.
This disregard for the well-being of subjects drug testing is inexcusable. Further, the absence
of any comprehensive long-term medical assistance for the subjects of these experiments is
not only unscientific; it is also unprofessional.
4. Lack of Normal Authorization and Supervision
It is apparent from documents supplied to the Committee that the Army's testing programs
often operated under informal and nonroutine authorization. Potentially dangerous
operations such as these testing programs are the very projects which ought to be subject to
the closest internal scrutiny at the highest levels of the military command structure. There are
numerous examples of inadequate review, partial consideration, and incomplete approval in
the administration of these programs.
When the first Army program to use LSD on American soldiers in "field stations" was
authorized in May 1955, the Arm violated its own procedures in obtaining approval. Under
Army Chief of Staff Memorandum 385, such proposals were to be personally approved by
the Secretary of the Army. Although the plan was submitted to him on April 26, 1956, the
Secretary issued no written authorization for the project, and there is no evidence that he
either reviewed or approved the plan. Less than a month later, the Army Chief of Staff issued
a memorandum authorizing the tests. [120]
Subsequent testing of LSD under Material Testing Program EA 1729 operated generally
under this authorization. When the plans for this testing were originally discussed in early
1958 by officials of the Army Intelligence Center at Fort Holabird and representatives of the
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Chemical Warfare Center at Edgewood Arsenal, an informal proposal was formulated. This
proposal was submitted to the Medical Research Directorate at Edgewood by the President
of the Army Intelligence Board on June 3, 1958. There is no evidence that the plan was
approved at any level higher than the President of the Intelligence Board or the Commanding
General of Edgewood. The approval at Edgewood appears to have been issued by the
Commander's Adjutant. The Medical Research Laboratories did not submit the plan to the
Surgeon General for approval (a standard procedure) because
[119] Sample Volunteer Security Statement.

[120] Inspector General of the Army Report, "Use of Volunteers in Chemical Agent Research," 3/10/76, p. 109.
-99the new program was ostensibly covered by the authorizations granted in May 1956. [121]
The two projects involving the operational use of LSD (THIRD CHANCE and DERBY
HAT) were apparently approved by the Army Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence
(General Willems) on December 7, 1960. [122] This verbal approval came in the course of a
briefing on previous drug programs and on the planned field experimentation. There is no
record of written approval being issued by the ACSI to authorize these specific projects until
January 1961, and there is no record of any specific knowledge or approval by the Secretary
of the Army.
On February 4, 1963, Major General C. F. Leonard, Army ACSI, forwarded a copy of the
THIRD CHANCE Trip Report to Army Chief of Staff, General Earl Wheeler. [123] Wheeler
had apparently requested a copy on February 2. The report was routed through a General
Hamlett. While this report included background on the origins of the LSD tests, it appears
that General Wheeler may only have read the conclusion and recommendations. [124] The
office memorandum accompanying the Trip Report bears Wheeler's initials. [125]
5. Termination of Testing
On April 10, 1963, a briefing was held in the ACSIs office on the results of Projects THIRD
CHANCE and DERBY HAT. Both SPT's concluded that more field testing was required
before LSD could be utilized as an integral aid to counterintelligence interrogations. During
the presentation of the DERBY HAT results, General Leonard (Deputy ACSI) directed that
no further field testing be undertaken. [126] After this meeting the ACSI sent a letter to the
Commanding General of the Army Combat Developments Command (CDC) requesting that
he review THIRD CHANCE and DERBY HAT and "make a net evaluation concerning the
adoption of EA 1729 for future use as an effective and profitable aid in counterintelligence
interrogations." [127] On the same day the ACSI requested that the CDC Commander revise
regulation FM 30-17 to read in part:
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... in no instance will drugs be used as an aid to interrogations in counterintelligence or

security operations without prior permission of the Department of the Army. Requests to use
drugs as an investigative aid will be forwarded through intelligence channels to the ACSI,
DA, for approval....
Medical research has established that information obtained through the use of these drugs is
unreliable and invalid....
It is considered that DA [Army] approval must be a prerequisite for use of such drugs
because of the moral, legal, medical and political problems inherent in their use for
intelligence purposes. [128]
[121] Ibid, pp. 135, 137, 138.

[122] Mehovsky Fact Sheet, 12/9/60.
[123] Memorandum from Leonard to Wheeler, 2/4/63.
[124] SGS memorandum to Wheeler through Hamlett, 2/5/63.
[125] Ibid.
[126] Maj. F. Barnett, memorandum for the record, 8/12/63.
[127] Yamaki memorandum for the record, 7/16/63.
[128] Ibid.
-100The subsequent adoption of this regulation marked the effective termination of field testing
of LSD by the Army.
The official termination date of these testing Programs is rather unclear, but a later ACSI
memo indicates that it may have occurred in September of 1963. On the 19th of that month a
meeting was held between Dr. Van Sims (Edgewood Arsenal), Major Clovis (Chemical
Research Laboratory), and ACSI representatives (General Deholm and Colonel Schmidt).
"As a result of this conference a determination was made to suspend the program and any
further activity pending a more profitable and suitable use." [129]
D. Cooperation And Competition Among The Intelligence Community

Agencies And Between These Agencies And Other Individuals And
Institutions
1. Relationships Among Agencies Within the Intelligence Community
Relationships among intelligence community agencies in this area varied considerably over
time, ranging from full cooperation to intense and wasteful competition. The early period
was marked by a high degree of cooperation among the agencies of the intelligence
community. Although the military dominated research involving chemical and biological
agents, the information developed was shared with the FBI and the CIA. But the spirit of
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cooperation did not continue. The failure by the military to share information apparently
breached the spirit, if not the letter, of commands from above.
As noted above, the Army Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence was briefed on the
proposed operational testing of LSD under Project THIRD CHANCE, and expressed
concern that the project had not been coordinated with FBI and CIA. Despite this request, no
coordination was achieved between the Army and either of these agencies. Had such
cooperation been forthcoming, this project may have been evaluated in a different light.
The competition between the agencies in this area reached bizarre levels. A military officer
told a CIA representative in confidence about the military's field testing of LSD in Europe
under Project THIRD CHANCE, and the CIA promptly attempted to learn surreptitiously the
nature and extent of the program. At roughly the same time Mr. Helms argued to the DDCI
that the unwitting testing program should be continued, as it contributed to the CIA's
capability in the area and thus allowed the CIA "to restrain others in the intelligence
community (such as the Department of Defense) from pursuing operations. [130]
The MKNAOMI program was also marked by a failure to share information. The Army
Special Forces (the principal customer of the Special Operations Division at Fort Dietrick)
and the CIA rather than attempting to coordinate their efforts promulgated different
requirements which varied only slightly. This apparently resulted in some duplication of
effort. In order to insure the security of CIA operations, the Agency would request materials
from SOD for operational use without fully or accurately describing the operational
requirements. This resulted in limitations on SOD's ability to assist the CIA.
[129] Undated ASCI memorandum, p. 2.

[130] Memorandum from the DDP to the DCI, 11/9/64, p. 2.
-1012. Relationship Between the Intelligence Community Agencies and Foreign Liaison Services
The subjects of the CIA's operational testing of chemical and biological agents abroad were
generally being held for interrogation by foreign intelligence or security organizations.
Although information about the use of drugs was generally withheld from these
organizations, cooperation with them necessarily jeopardized the security of CIA interest in
these materials. Cooperation also placed the American Government in a position of
complicity in actions which violated the rights of the subjects, and which may have violated
the laws of the country in which the experiments took place.
Cooperation between the intelligence agencies and organizations in foreign countries was not
limited to relationships with the intelligence or internal security organizations. Some
MKULTRA research was conducted abroad. While this is, in itself, not a questionable
practice, it is important that such research abroad not be undertaken to evade American laws.
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That this was a possibility is suggested by an ARTICHOKE memorandum in which it is

noted that working with the scientists of a foreign country "might be very advantageous"
since that government "permitted certain activities which were not permitted by the United
States government (i.e., experiments on anthrax, etc.)." [131]
3. The Relationships Between the Intelligence Community Agencies and Other Agencies of
the U.S. Government
Certain U.S. government agencies actively assisted the efforts of intelligence agencies in this
area. One form of assistance was to provide "cover" for research contracts let by intelligence
agencies, in order to disguise intelligence community interest in chemical and biological
agents.
Other forms of assistance raise more serious questions. Although the CIA's project involving
the surreptitious administration of LSD was conducted by Bureau of Narcotics personnel,
there was no open connection between the Bureau personnel and the Agency. The Bureau
was serving as a "cut-out" in order to make it difficult to trace Agency participation. The cutout arrangement, however, reduced the CIA's ability to control the program. The Agency
could not control the process by which subjects were selected and cultivated, and could not
regulate follow-up after the testing. Moreover, as the CIA's Inspector General noted: "the
handling of test subjects in the last analysis rests with the [Bureau of Narcotics] agent
working alone. Suppression of knowledge of critical results from the top CIA management is
an inherent risk in these operations." [132] The arrangement also made it impossible for the
Agency to be certain that the decision to end the surreptitious administration of LSD would
be honored by the Bureau personnel.
The arrangement with the Bureau of Narcotics was described as "informal." [133] The
informality of the arrangement compounded the problem is aggravated by the fact that the 40
Committee has had vir-
[131] ARTICHOKE Memorandum, 6/13/52.

[132] IG Report on MKULTRA, 1963, p.14.
[133] Ibid This was taken by one Agency official to mean that there would be no written contract and no formal
mechanism for payment. (Eider, 12/18/75, p. 31.)
-102apparent unwillingness on the part of the Bureau's leadership to ask for details, and the CIA's
hesitation in volunteering information. These problems raise serious questions of command
and control within the Bureau.
4. Relationships Between the Intelligence Community Agencies and Other Institutions and
Individuals, Public and Private
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The Inspector General's 1963 Survey of MKULTRA noted that "the research and
development" phase was conducted through standing arrangements with "specialists in
universities, pharmaceutical houses, hospitals, state and federal institutions, and private
research organizations" in a manner which concealed "from the institution the interests of the
CIA." Only a few "key individuals" in each institution were "made witting of Agency
sponsorship." The research and development phase was succeeded by a phase involving
physicians, toxicologists, and other specialists in mental, narcotics, and general hospitals and
prisons, who are provided the products and findings of the basic research projects and
proceed with intensive testing on human subjects." [134]
According to the Inspector General, the MKULTRA testing programs were "conducted
under accepted scientific procedures... where health permits, test subjects are voluntary
participants in the programs." [135] This was clearly not true in the project involving the
surreptitious administration of LSD, which was marked by a complete lack of screening,
medical supervision, opportunity to observe, or medical or psychological follow-up.
The intelligence agencies allowed individual researchers to design their project. Experiments
sponsored by these researchers (which included one where narcotics addicts were sent to
Lexington, Kentucky, who were rewarded with the drug of their addiction in return for
participation in experiments with LSD) call into question the decision by the agencies not to
fix guidelines for the experiments.
The MKULTRA research and development program raises other questions, as well. It is not
clear whether individuals in prisons, mental, narcotics and general hospitals can provide
"informed consent" to participation in experiments such as these. There is doubt as to
whether institutions should be unwitting of the ultimate sponsor of research being done in
their facilities. The nature of the arrangements also made it impossible for the individuals
who were not aware of the sponsor of the research to exercise any choice about their
participation based on the sponsoring organization.
Although greater precautions are now being taken in research conducted on behalf of the
intelligence community agencies, the dilemma of classification remains. The agencies
obviously wished to conceal their interest in certain forms of in order to avoid stimulating
interest in the same areas by hostile governments. In some cases today contractors or
researchers wish to conceal their connection with these agencies. Yet the fact of
classification prevents open discussion and debate upon which scholarly work depends.
[134] Ibid p. 9.
[135] Ibid p. 10.

Material
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Sign the Resolution

1900 | 1910 | 1920 | 1930 | 1940 | 1950 | 1960 | 1970 | 1980 | 1990
APPENDIX B
Documents Referring To Discovery
Of Additional MKULTRA Material
[document begins]
[View JPEG Document Scan of This Page]
22 June 1977
MEMORANDUM FOR: Deputy Director of Central Intelligence
THROUGH: Deputy Director for Science and Technology
SUBJECT: Request for Guidance on Handling Recently Located MKULTRA Material
1. (U/AIUO) This memorandum is to advise you that additional MKULTRA documents
have been discovered and to obtain your approval for follow-on actions required. Paragraph
7 contains a recommended course of action.
2. (U/AIUO) As a result of John Marks FOIA request (F-76-374), all of the MKULTRA
material in OTS possession was reviewed for possible release to him. Following that
review, the OTS material in the Retired Records Center was searched. It was during that
latter search that the subproject files were located among the retired records of the OTS
Budget and Fiscal Section. These files were not discovered earlier as the earlier searches
were limited to the examination of the active and retired records of those branches
considered most likely to have generated or have had access to MKULTRA documents.
Those branches included: Chemistry, Biological, Behavioral Activities, and Contracts
Management. Because Dr. Gottlieb retrieved and destroyed all the MKULTRA documents
he was able to locate, it is not surprising that the earlier search for MKULTRA documents,
directed at areas where they were most likely to be found, was unsuccessful. The purpose of
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establishing the MKULTRA mechanism was to limit knowledge of the sensitive work being
performed to those with an absolute need to know. If those precepts had been followed, the
recently found B&F files should have contained only financial and administrative
documents. (In retrospect, I realize that
-104- [View JPEG Document Scan of This Page]

a serious error was made in not having B&F files and other seemingly innocuous files
searched earlier.) As it happened most of the individual subproject folders contain project
proposals and memoranda for the record, which in varying degrees, give a reasonably
complete picture of the avenues of research funded through MKULTRA. For your
information, the original memorandum setting up MKULTRA, signed by Mr. Dulles, is also
among these documents. A copy of the memorandum is attached.
3. (U/AIUO) At this writing, it does not appear that there is anything in these newly
located files that would indicate the MKULTRA activities were more extensive or more
controversial than indicated by the Senate Select (Church) Committee Report. If anything,
the reverse is true, i.e., most of the nearly 200 subprojects are innocuous. Thus, the
overview of MKULTRA is essentially unchanged. With two exceptions, the project find
fills in some of the missing details.
4. (U/AIUO) One of these exceptions is Subproject Number 45 which concerns an
activity that should have been reported earlier. That project deals with the search for a
knockout drug which was concomitant with, and a by-product of, cancer research at a major
university. It is believed that an objective reading of that project would demonstrate the
search for knockout materials and anesthetics were compatible activities. However, the
research proposal stated that "chemical agents... will be subjected to clinical screening... on
advanced cancer patients".
5. (C) Subproject Number 55 contains full details of CIA's contribution of $375,000 to
the [deletion] Building Fund. The Agency was then involved in drug research programs,
many of which were being conducted by [deletion] whose facilities were inadequate. In
order to facilitate the ongoing research programs, it was decided to expedite the building
program by contributing to it through a mechanism that was also being used to fund some
of the research projects.

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The contribution could be controversial in that it was made through a mechanism making it
appear to be a private donation. Private donations qualified for, and [deletion] received, an
equal amount of Federal matching funds. A letter from the Office of General Counsel dated
21 February 1954 attesting to the legality of this funding is in the file.
6. (U/AIUO) The Legislative Counsel has been made aware of the existence of these
additional MKULTRA documents which are still under review and sanitation. The MARKS
case is in litigation and we are committed to advise Mr. Marks of the existence of these files
shortly, and to deliver the releasable material to his attorneys by 31 July. A letter from the
Information and Privacy Staff to Mr. Marks' attorneys informing them of the existence of
this material is in the coordination process and is scheduled to be mailed on 24 June.
7. (U/AIUO) There are now two actions that should be taken:
a. Release appropriately sanitized material to Mr. Marks' attorneys as required by
FOIA litigation.
b. Inform the Senate Select Committee of the existence of the recently located records
prior to informing Mr. Marks' attorneys.
It is recommended that you approve of both of these actions.
8. (U/AIUO) If additional details on the contents of this material are desired, the OIS
officers most familiar with it are prepared to brief you at your convenience.
[signature]
David S. Brandwein
Director
Office of Technical Service
[document ends]

[document begins]
The Director of Central Intelligence
The Honorable Daniel K. Inouye, Chairman
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Select Committee on Intelligence

United States Senate
Dear Mr. Chairman:
During the course of 1975 when the Senate Committee, chaired by Senator Church, was
investigating intelligence activities, the CIA was asked to produce documentation on a
program of experimentation with the effect of drugs. Under this project conducted from
1953 to 1964 and known as "MK-ULTRA," tests were conducted on American citizens in
some cases without their knowledge. The CIA, after searching for such documentation,
reported that most of the documents on this matter have been destroyed. I find it my duty to
report to you now that our continuing search for drug related, as well as other documents,
has uncovered certain papers which bear on this matter. Let me hasten to add that I am
persuaded that there was no previous attempt to conceal this material in the original 1975
exploration. The material recently discovered was in the retired archives filed under
financial accounts and only uncovered by using extraordinary and extensive search efforts.
In this connection, incidentally, I have personally commended the employee whose
diligence produced this find.
Because the new material now on hand is primarily of a financial nature, it does not
present a complete picture of the field of drug experimentation activity but it does provide
more detail than was previously available to us. For example, the following types of
activities were undertaken:
a. Possible additional cases of drugs being tested on American citizens, without their
knowledge.
b. Research was undertaken on surreptitious methods of administering drugs.
c. Some of the persons chosen for experimentation were drug addicts or alcoholics.
d. Research into the development of a knockout or "K" drug was performed in
conjunction with being done to develop pain killers for advanced cancer patients, and tests
on such patients were carried out.

2
e. There is a possibility of an improper payment to a private institution.
The drug related activities described in this newly located material began almost 25 years
ago. I assure you they were discontinued over 10 years ago and do not take place today.
In keeping with the President's commitment to disclose any errors of the Intelligence
Community which are uncovered, I would like to volunteer to testify before your
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Committee on the full details of this unfortunate series of events. I am in the process of
reading the fairly voluminous material involved and do want to be certain that I have a
complete picture when I talk with the Committee. I will be in touch with you next week to
discuss when hearings might be scheduled at the earliest opportunity.
I regret having to bring this issue to your attention, but I know that it is essential to your
oversight procedures that you be kept fully informed in a timely manner.
Yours sincerely,
[signature]
STANSFIELD TURNER
[document ends]

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1900 | 1910 | 1920 | 1930 | 1940 | 1950 | 1960 | 1970 | 1980 | 1990
Table of Contents
APPENDIX C
Documents Referring To Subprojects
[document begins]
DRAFT
1 May 1953
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
SUBJECT: Project MKULTRA, Subproject 2
1. Subproject 2 is being set up to provide a secure and
efficient means to exploit [deletion] in regard to the MKULTRA
program.
2. [deletion] is a practicing psychiatrist in [deletion] and a
faculty member of the [deletion] His past positions have included
Chief Neuropsychiatrist at [deletion] Chief of the Psychiatric
Section at [deletion] and OSS experience during World War II.
He has been of value in the general MKULTRA field as an
overall advisor and consultant, he has been of value in containing
individuals in the [deletion] area and in setting up projects there,
and he has done work himself which has contributed to the
MKULTRA field. His professional activities and known
connections with the [deletion]
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3. Subproject 2 would include:

a. Miscellaneous research and testing services in the
general field of MKULTRA.
b. Services as a contact and cut-out for projects in the
MKULTRA field, primarily those located in the [deletion] area.
c. Monitoring of selected projects in the MKULTRA field,
when located in the central [deletion] area.
d. Services as a general consultant and advisor in the
MKULTRA field.
4. The total cost of this project is not to exceed $4,650.00 for
a period of one year.
5. [deletion] is cleared through TOP SECRET on a contact
basis.
[signature deleted]
Chemical Division/TSS
[Multiple deletions at bottom of page]
APPROVED:

[multiple deletions]
APPROVED:
[Sidney Gottlieb signature]
Chief, Chemical Division/TSS
PROGRAM APPROVED
AND RECOMMENDED:
[signature deleted]
For Research Chairman
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Date: May 5, 1953

Attachment:
Proposal
APPROVED FOR
OBLIGATION OF FUNDS:
[signature deleted]
Research Director
Date: May 5, 1953
Original Only.
[multiple deletions at bottom of page]
[document ends]
[document begins]
[deletion at top of page]
PROPOSAL
Objective: To study the possible synergistic action of drugs
which may be appropriate for use in abolishing consciousness.
Proposal: Allocation of $1000 for animal experiments, to be
drawn on as needed. That experiments be conducted informally
at [deletion] without a specific grant, and with appropriate cover.
[document ends]
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[document begins]
[deletion]
PROPOSAL
Objective: To study methods for the administration of drugs
without the knowledge of the patient. Preparation of a manual.
Method: A survey of methods which have been used by
criminals for surreptitious administration of drugs. Analysts of
the psychodynamics of situations of this nature.
Proposal: That $1000 be allocated for this purpose, funds to be
requested as needed.
[document ends]

[document begins]
DRAFT/[deletion]
11 August 1955
MEMORANDUM FOR: THE RECORD
SUBJECT: Project MKULTRA, Subproject [deletion] 2
1. Subproject 2[deletion]is being initiated to provide secure
and efficient means of exploiting [deletion] with regard to the
MKULTRA program.
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2. [deletion] is a practicing psychiatrist in [deletion] and a

faculty member of [deletion] He has been of value in the general
MKULTRA project, serving as an advisor and consultant,
contacting individuals in the [deletion] area, and carrying out his
own research program.
3. Subproject 2 [deletion] would include the following:
(a) Miscellaneous research and testing services in the general
field of MKULTRA.
(b) Services as a contact and cutout for projects in the
MKULTRA field, primarily those located in the [deletion]
(c) Monitoring of selected projects in the MKULTRA field,
when located in the central [deletion]
(d) Services as a general consultant and advisor in the
MKULTRA field.
(e) He would act as medical advisor and consultant to
[deletion] and his [deletion] establishment.
4. [deletion] will be reimbursed for his services and expenses
upon receipt of an invoice at irregular intervals. When travel
expenses are incurred through use of a common carrier, they will
be documented and reimbursed in the usual manner; that is,
consistent with standard Government allowances.
[document ends]

[document begins]
DRAFT [deletion]
2 October 1953
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1. Subproject 15 is a continuation of Subproject 3, which
involved the establishment and maintenance of facilities for the
realistic testing of certain research and development items of
interest to CD/TSS and APD/TSS. The facilities were set up
under Subproject 3, and Subproject 16 is intended to provide for
the continued maintenance of the facilities.
2. Subproject 3 was originally intended to provide funds for
the maintenance of the facilities for one year; but it turns out that
the costs of alterations, equipment, and initial supplies were
under-estimated in Subproject 3; hence the necessity to establish
Subproject 16 at this time.
3. Subproject 16 will be conducted by [deletion] a [deletion]
Certain support activities will be provided by CD/TSS and
APD/TSS.
4. The estimated cost for a period of one year is $7,740.00.
[deletion]
SIDNEY GOTTLIEB
Chief
Chemical Division, TSS
PROGRAM APPROVED
AND RECOMMENDED:
[signature deleted]
Research Chairman
Date: ------------APPROVED FOR OBLIGATION
OF FUNDS:
[signature deleted]
Research Director
Date: 13 Oct 1953
TOP SECRET
[document ends]
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[document begins]
[deletion]
May 26, 1953
Dear [deletion]
After our telephone conversation this morning I went to [one
line deleted] and opened an account -- regular checking -- in the
amount of $100.00 using the name [deletion]
It occurred to me that for sake of safety -- if, for example,
anything should happen to me -- it would simplify matters if I
made this a joint account between [deletion] and [deletion] Then,
in case of my absence, illness or death you could recover the
joint funds without any legal difficulties or monkey business.
The bank was a little sticky about opening an account in the
absences of "references" from another bank, and also found it
hard to understand how [deletion] got by all these years without
a bank account. However, I offered to provide an excellent
reference in a government official, a [deletion] who is [deletion]
at [deletion] and that seemed to placate the money-lenders.
Thereafter, I communicated with [deletion] and he immediately
wrote a reference for [deletion] on official stationary. [deletion]
also kindly said he was well acquainted with [deletion] and was
pleased to offer for him a similar recommendation.
If you think this is a good idea, I suggest you sign the Joint
Account Agreement and the three signature cards enclosed and
return them to me.
And now that the account is opened I suggest you have funds
deposited via Cashier's check -- or any other way that seems
easiest -- directly to [deleted] account.
I ordered checks printed with [deleted] name thereon and
have also ordered stationary bearing [deleted] name. I considered
this might facilitate payment of bills, etc., by mail.
What with suspicious banks, landlords, utility companies,
etc., you will understand that creating the Jekyll-Hyde
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personality in the form of [deleted] is taking a little "doing".

See you Monday, the 8th
Rgds,
[deleted]
[document ends]

[document begins]
1. The scope of this project is intended to encompass all those
activities now engaged in by the [deleted] in its own facilities
under the direction of CD/TSS. At the present time the various
projects at this facility ([deleted] and [deleted]) are being
concluded and it is deemed desirable from the standpoint of
security and efficiency to replace these projects with a single
project more general in its approach.
2. The attached proposal from Dr. [deleted] indicates the
extent of the investigations that his facilities will allow him to
carry out on the materials developed in the three projects referred
to in paragraph 1, as well as certain other materials of interest to
Cd/TSS. Dr. [deleted] also serves as a general consultant to this
division and provides cover and cut-out facilities to the Agency.
3. The total cost of this project for a period of one year will
not exceed $42,700.00.
4. Dr. [deleted] has been granted a Top Secret Clearance by
the Agency and is fully capable of projecting the security of the
Government's interest in such matters as this.
[signature deleted]
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APPROVED:
[signature deleted]
Chief, Chemical Division, TSS
PROGRAM APPROVED AND RECOMMENDED:
[signature deleted]
Exec. [illegible] Res. Ed.
Date: Jan 28 1954
APPROVED FOR OBLIGATION OF FUNDS:
[signature deleted]
Research Director
Date: 28 Jan 1954
Attachment: Proposal
[document ends]

[document begins]
The present investigation is concerned with chemical agents
which are effective in modifying the behavior and function of the
central nervous system.
1 - It is proposed to study a variety of known drugs in this
pharmacological class that are in present day use and to
synthesize new chemical agents or to modify existing ones as
occasion may demand.
2 - The various chemical agents investigated or synthesized will
be tested on animals to determine their acute and chronic
toxicity. Their pharmacological effects will be studied by a
variety of assay technics, such as blood pressure determinations,
bronchial dilation recordings, endocrine effects, etc. Complete
animal facilities will be maintained for this purpose and
pathologic study will be carried out on the affected organs when
the animals are sacrificed.
3 - Preliminary clinical investigation will be carried out on the
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more promising chemical agents, and appropriate laboratory

procedures will be performed, such as blood counts, uninalysis,
etc. to determine the effectiveness and the side reactions of the
drugs under investigation.
4 - Adequate reports will be submitted of the findings at
quarterly intervals.
5 - Proposed budget:
Personnel
Synthetic organic chemist..................$7,500.00
Research medical associate.................$6,500.00
Pharmacological assistant..................$5,500.00
Chemical assistant.........................$4,000.00
Histology technician.......................$2,400.00
Clinical technician........................$3,600.00
Chemical consultant........................$1,200.00
Total salaries for personnel..............$30,700.00
Other Expenditures
Animals, animal maintenance & facilities...$4,000.00
Chemical & laboratory supplies, expendable $4,000.00
Miscellaneous permanent equipment..........$2,000.00
Travel, medical meetings, etc..............$2,000.00
Total other expenditures..................$12,000.00
TOTAL.....................................$42,700.00
[document ends]

[document begins]
DRAFT [deleted]
8 October 1954
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SUBJECT: Increase in the Scope of Subproject 23, Project

MKULTRA
1. Due to a considerable increase in the scope of the work
undertaken by [deleted] at the direction of TSS/CD under
Subproject 23, Project MKULTRA, the $42,700.00 sum
originally obligated for this work is insufficient to cover the
year's costs. It is therefore proposed to add $15,000.00 to that
already obligated under this Subproject.
2. The total cost of this Subproject for the period 28 January
1954 to 28 January 1955 will thus amount to $57,700.00.
3. The increase in scope responsible for this proposal consists
of the development and partial financing of two new sources of
biologically active compounds of interest in the program
TSS/CD is carrying out.
[signature deleted]
[deleted]
Research Director
Date: October 11, 1954
APPROVED:
Chief, Chemical Division, TSS
Original Only.
[handwritten notes at bottom of page:]
1) [deleted]
2) [deleted]
The additional compounds are derivatives of tryptomine not
available from any other sources.
[document ends]
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[document begins]
25 August 1955
SUBJECT: Authorization for Payment of Certain Expenses
Under Project MKULTRA, Subproject 23
1. In order to carry on the work of the above Subproject, it
was necessary to test the effects of certain chemical substances
when administered to test the effects of certain chemical
substances when administered to human beings. Certain of the
anticipated effects involved mental functions which precluded
the use of mental defectives for this particular study.
2. In view of these circumstances the project engineer, with
verbal approval from his chief, authorized the contractor to pay
the hospitals expenses of certain persons suffering from
incurable cancer for the privilege of studying the effects of these
chemicals during their terminal illnesses. The total funds
expended in this fashion amounted to $658.05 and full value was
received.
3. It is requested that the Chief, TSS indicate his knowledge
and approval of this particular expenditure for audit purposes.
[signature deleted]
TSS/Chemical Division
APPROVED:
[signature deleted]
[deleted] Chief, TSS
APPROVED:
Chief, TSS/Chemical Division
August 31, 1955
Distribution:
Orig. - TSS/CD
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[document ends]

[document begins]
21 December 1954
MEMORANDUM FOR: Director of Central Intelligence
1. While the Director's statutory authority to expend funds for
confidential purposes is not limited by law, we believe that a gift
of Government funds as such would exceed the intent of the
Congress in granting that power. However, where a gift is made
for the express purpose of producing something of value to this
Agency which cannot otherwise be obtained and there is
reasonable expectation that the value may be received, the gift
may in effect be an expenditure for proper official purposes.
2. In Subproject 35, it is stated that the donation in question
would achieve certain ends desired by TSS. There seems to be no
question that those ends would be advantageous, so the main
questions appear to be whether they could not be attained by
more direct, normal methods, and, if not, whether the return is
necessary and reasonable in relation to the donation.
3. We are in no position to review the requirements of TSS or
to appraise the advantages that would result from this project.
We do not comment, therefore, on the value received if the
project results in the benefits foreseen . We feel we should
comment on factors affecting the probability of achieving those
ends. In a legal sense, there is little or no control. Once the funds
are donated, the individual, his foundation, or the hospital could
conceivably refuse to work for us or allow us the use of the
facilities.
4. Practically, the control seems to be established as well as
circumstances permit. Certainly, as long as the individual is alive
and in his present position, we have every reason to expect his
complete cooperation in the future as in the past, unless through
some act or fault of our own he is alienated. Even in the event of
his death or incapacity, there appears to be a reasonable
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chance of continuing the project. If these probabilities appear
sufficient to obtain an adequate return for the expenditure, there
can be no legal objection to this aspect of the project.
5. It should be noted that there are two circumstances which
require consideration in a final determination. As stated in
Section V, our contribution, by appearing to be from a private
source, would increase the matching Government contribution by
a similar amount which would not be the case if it were known
that this was in fact a Government contribution also. Secondly, it
is the stated policy of the hospital to charge the Government and
commercial organizations 80 per cent overhead on research
contracts, whereas nonprofit foundations pay only direct costs
but no overhead. Because of the ostensible source, our projects
will not be charged overhead. This could be construed as morally
wrongful to the hospital, as normally we would pay the 80 per
cent overhead charge for projects performed directly for us, but I
believe this can be offset, at least to the amount of our donation,
and perhaps by the further amount by which the other
Government contributions are increased by our donation. In any
case, if the project is a proper one and must be performed in this
manner, security dictates these circumstances and they, therefore,
do not present a legal obstacle as such.
6. We raised the question whether funds for the hospital
construction could not be obtained from other normal charitable
sources. It appeared that there was a strong possibility that the
individual concerned could raise adequate funds from private
resources, but it was the position of TSS that if this were the case
we would not obtain the commitment from the individual and the
degree of control which this project is designed to achieve.
[Lawrence R. Houston signature]
LAWRENCE R. HOUSTON
General Counsel
[document ends]
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[document begins]
[deletion]
8 April 1955
MEMORANDUM FOR: Chief, DD/P/TSS
SUBJECT: Amendment to Subproject 35 of Project MKULTRA
We have noted your memorandum of 6 April 1955 to the
Director requesting an increase of $250,000 for the TSS R&D
budget for this Project. This request does not affect in any way
the comments in my memorandum of 21 December 1954.
[deletion]
General Counsel
[document ends]

[document begins]
DRAFT
[deletion]
5 May 1955
A portion of the Research and Development Program of
TSS/Chemical Division is devoted to the discovery of the
following materials and methods:
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1. Substances which will promote illogical thinking and

impulsiveness to the point where the recipient would be
discredited in public.
2. Substances which increase the efficiency of mentation and
perception.
3. Materials which will prevent or counteract the intoxicating
effect of alcohol.
4. Materials which will promote the intoxicating effect of
alcohol.
5. Materials which will produce the signs and symptoms of
recognized diseases in a reversible way so that they may be used
for malingering, etc.
6. Materials which will render the induction of hypnosis
easier or otherwise enhance its usefulness.
7. Substances which will enhance the ability of individuals to
withstand privation, torture and coercion during interrogation
and so-called "brain-washing".
8. Materials and physical methods which will produce
amnesia for events preceding and during their use.
9. Physical methods of producing shock and confusion over
extended periods of time and capable of surreptitious use.
10. Substances which produce physical disablement such as
paralysis of the legs, acute anemia, etc.

-211. Substances which will produce "pure" euphoria with no
subsequent let-down.
12. Substances which alter personality structure in such a way
that the tendency of the recipient to become dependent upon
another person is enhanced.
13. A material which will cause mental confusion of such a
type that the individual under its influence will find it difficult to
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maintain a fabrication under questioning.

14. Substances which will lower the ambition and general
working efficiency of men when administered in undetectable
amounts.
15. Substances which promote weakness or distortion of the
eyesight or hearing faculties, preferably without permanent
effects.
16. A knockout pill which can surreptitiously be administered
in drinks, food, cigarettes, as an aerosol, etc., which will be safe
to use, provide a maximum of amnesia, and be suitable for use
by agent types on an ad hoc basis.
17. A material which can be surreptitiously administered by
the above routes and which in very small amounts will make it
impossible for a man to perform any physical activity
whatsoever.
The development of materials of this type follows the
standard practice of such ethical drug houses as [deletion] It is a
relatively routine procedure to develop a drug to the point of
human testing. Ordinarily, the drug houses depend upon the
services of private physicians for the final clinical testing. The
physicians are willing to assume the responsibility of such tests
in order to advance the science of medicine. It is difficult and
sometimes impossible for TSS/CD to offer such an inducement
with respect to its products. In practice, it has been possible to
use outside cleared contractors for the preliminary phases of this
work. However, that part which involves human testing at
effective dose levels presents security problems which cannot be
handled by the ordinary contractor.

-3The proposed facility [deletion] offers a unique opportunity
for the secure handling of such clinical testing in addition to the
many advantages outlined in the project proposal. The security
problems mentioned above are eliminated by the fact that the
responsibility for the testing will rest completely upon the
physician and the hospital. [one line deleted] will allow TSS/CD
personnel to supervise the work very closely to make sure that all
tests are conducted according to the recognized practices and
embody adequate safeguards.
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[document ends]

[document begins]
10 May 1955
SUBPROJECT 35 OF PROJECT MKULTRA
1. Subproject 35 as approved by the DCI on 15 January 1955
contemplated a financial contribution of $125,000 to the
[deletion] to participate in the construction of a new research
wing to cost $3,000,000 exclusive of furnishings and equipment.
Agency funds will be transmitted through the [deletion] as cutout which will result in one-sixth of the space in the new
research wing being made available for Agency-sponsored
research involving covert biological and chemical techniques of
warfare.
2. At that time (15 January 1955) [deletion] with CIA
encouragement indicated a willingness to contribute $500,000 to
the construction fund. The building fund was to have been raised
as follows:
$1,000,000 - Contributed by [deletion]
250,000 - Donation from [deletion] of which $125,000 to be
supplied by CIA
1,250,000 - Matching funds under Public Law 221 equal to
the amount of the two above contributions
500,000 - [deletion]
_________________
$3,000,000 - TOTAL
4. The Agency's contribution would thus total $375,000. This
investment, together with the equal sum resulting from matched
funds, is fully justified in the opinion of TSS for reasons which
will be explained by [deletion] Chief, TSS, and Dr. Sidney
Gottlieb, Chief, TSS/Chemical Division. The scope of subproject
35 has not changed since the Director originally approved a
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request by TSS for permission to spend $125,000 of available

[handwritten note:]
Resume of project circulated to members of [illegible] at meeting
on 11 May '55

[deletion] funds for this purpose through the controls and
procedures established for MKULTRA. At the time subproject
35 was set up within the scope of the TSS R&D program,
security considerations and cover arrangements were carefully
reviewed, and the Office of General Counsel assisted in legal
determinations. With the exception of funding arrangements, no
changes to the program have since been made.
5. Funds to cover the previously approved sum of $125,000 are
available within the TSS [deletion] budget for FY 55 and have
been set aside. The TSS budget, however, lacks funds with
which to cover the supplemental sum of $250,000, and it is
requested that the TSS [deletion] budget be increased by this
amount. Supplementary funds available for subproject 35 can
definitely be obligated by the end of FY 55.
-2[document ends]

[document begins]
AMENDMENT TO SUBPROJECT 35, PROJECT MKULTRA
For the Purpose of Establishing a Cover Organization for Highly
Sensitive Projects in the Field of Biological, Chemical and
Radiological Warfare
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I. Background on Subproject 35.

In January 1955 approval was given by the DCI to Subproject 35
of Project MKULTRA. The documents which lead this approval
(including comments of the OGC) are attached herewith as Tabs
2, A and 3.
Project MKULTRA is the framework of procedures and controls
under which research projects in certain highly sensitive fields
are carried out by TSS. A description of the background of
Project MKULTRA may be found on page 1 of Tab A.
Subproject 35 establishes cover under which the Chemical
Division of DD/P/TSS would conduct certain sensitive projects
in the fields of biological and chemical warfare and consists of a
proposed arrangement whereby the Agency covertly contributes
funds to assist the [deletion] in the construction of a new research
wing. Contribution of these funds is to be made through the
[deletion] as cut-out so that the [deletion] would remain
unwitting of Agency participation in the building program.
Projects would later be carried out by the Chemical Division
using the facilities of the new research wing, and Agency
employees would be able to participate in the work without the
University or the Hospital authorities being aware of Agency
interest. Subproject 35 contemplated the contribution of Agency
funds to assist in the construction of facilities. Future research
work would be carried out through the [deletion] as cut-out and
would be separately funded under existing procedures and
controls.
[deletion] and the background of [deletion] are described on page
2 of Tab A. On the same page there will be found a further
description of the [deletion]
II. Building Fund
The University will require $3,000,000 for the six-story addition
to the hospital exclusive of the cost of land, heating and power
supply which are being provided by the University. Under Public
Law 221, Subappropriation

663, dated 26 August 1954, funds are available to match funds
raised for this purpose by the University.
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When Subproject 35 was first prepared, it was hoped and

expected that the funds required would be provided as follows:
The University has allocated $1,000,000 to this project and will
assume upkeep and staffing obligations. [deletion] agreed that if
the Agency would provide [deletion] with a grant of $125,000,
the Fund would match this amount and make a total donation of
$250,000 to the University Building Fund. At that time,
discussions with [one line deleted] indicated that [deletion]
would contribute $500,000 to the building project on the basis
that radiological research would be conducted in the new wing
and that the construction of the new facilities was of interest to
that Agency. In summary, the financial situation was to have
been as follows:
$1,000,000 - [deletion]
250,000 - Donation from [deletion] (of which $125,000 was
supplied by CIA)
1,250,000 - Matched Funds under Public Law 221
_________________
$3,000,000 - TOTAL
It was recognized that the Federal contributions of $1,250,000
under Public Law 221 would be seemingly inflated by reason of
the inclusion of the CIA contribution in that of [deletion] It was
felt that the value to the Agency was such that this inflation of
the Federal contribution was more than justified by the
importance of the over-all project and that furthermore, the
inclusion of the CIA contribution in that of [deletion] was the
best means of maintaining security.
III. [deletion]
The original informal commitment on the part of [deletion] was
first obtained through verbal discussions with [deletion] which
were followed up by an exchange of correspondence between the
DCI and [deletion] Unfortunately at that time [deletion] was fully
occupied with the controversy concerning the [deletion] and
continued contact with [deletion] subordinates resulted in a
decision that [deletion] could not or would not contribute to the
Building Fund, but would be willing to support an annual
research program amounting to $50,000 to $75,000. It is not
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known whether this change in policy was suggested to [deletion]

or whether it originated with him. Be that as it may, when the
change in policy became apparent, it was evident that additional
funds would be required to complete the hospital construction.
IV. Suggested Funding.
It is now suggested that the $3,000,000 required for the hospital
wing be provided as follows:
$1,000,000 - [deletion]
500,000 - Donation from [deletion] (including $375,000
supplied by CIA)
1,500,000 - Matched Funds from Public Law 221
_________
$3,000,000 - TOTAL
The donation from [deletion] would thus consist of the original
$125,000 to be supplied by CIA plus the sum of $125,000 to be
provided by the Fund and a supplemental CIA contributions of
$250,000. Originally Subproject 35 requested permission to
make a contribution of $125,000 to the building fund and
approval was given. This approval is enclosed herewith as Tab 2.
The purpose of this amendment to Subproject 35 is to request
permission to contribute an additional $250,000 to the building
construction fund through [deletion] It should be noted that the
total Government contribution to the hospital fund still remains
unchanged at $1,875,000. The increase in the size of the
contribution by the Fund is not out of keeping with other
operations of [deletion] and will not arouse undue comment
because of its magnitude. The originally approved contribution
has not as yet been transmitted to [deletion] and neither the
original contributions nor the supplement would be paid to
[deletion] until funds adequate to complete the project are made
available. This condition was specified by the DCI in approving
the original contribution.
V. Source of CIA Funds.
Funds to cover the initially approved sum of $125,000 are
available and have been segregated for this purpose within the
TSS FY 1955 Budget for Research and Development.
Insufficient funds remain in the TSS budget to cover the
supplementary sum of $250,000, and it is therefore requested
that the TSS budget be increased by this amount and that the
increase be made available to Subproject 35 of Project
MKULTRA.
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-3-

VI. Comments by the Office of General Counsel.
Tab 3 is a memorandum from the General Counsel to the DCI
dated 21 December 1954, commenting on Subproject 35, and
stating in part that there are no fundamental legal objections if
the probable benefits are considered a fair return for this
expenditure. The amendment to the Subproject contemplates
only an increase in funds and in no way changes any other aspect
of the project. The project has been referred back to the OGC
even though no change in its structure is contemplated, and Tab
4 contains his comments.
VII. Justification.
The advantages and benefits accruing to the Agency outlined in
Tab A are felt by TSS to provide adequate and complete
justification for the expenditure of the additional sum herein
requested which brings the total CIA contribution to $375,000.
The most important of these advantages and benefits may be
summarized as follows: (Fuller explanations may be found in
Tab A).
a. One-sixth of the total space in the new hospital wing will
be available to the Chemical Division of TSS, thereby providing
laboratory and office space, technical assistants, equipment and
experimental animals.
b. Agency sponsorship of sensitive research projects will be
completely deniable.
c. Full professional cover will be provided for up to three
biochemical employees of the Chemical Division.
d. Human patients and volunteers for experimental use will be
available under controlled clinical conditions within the full
supervision of [deletion]
Subproject 35 was originally conceived in October and
November of 1954, and the ensuing six months have indicated
that increasing emphasis and importance are being placed on the
Chemical Division's work in this field. The facilities of the
hospital and the ability to conduct controlled experiments under
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safe clinical conditions using materials with which any Agency

connection must be completely deniable will augment and
complement other programs recently taken over by TSS, such as
[deletion]
-4-

[deletion]
It was originally thought that at least 18 months would elapse
after the building funds had been raised before the facilities
would be finished and could be occupied by TSS. This lengthy
delay has now been overcome. When [one line deleted] has
raised the $500,000 which his Fund will ostensibly contribute, he
will then be allowed to use existing space in the present hospital
in order that he may build up the organization which will later
occupy the new wing. This means that TSS will be able to begin
to take advantage of this cover situation within a matter of
months instead of waiting for a year and a half.
VIII. Security.
Security matters and details are being co-ordinated with the TSS
Liaison and Security Officer. Security of transmittal of the funds
and cover arrangements are described in Tab A and remain
unchanged.
IX. Agreement with [deletion]
The agreement with [deletion] is described in Tab A, and the
extent of his co-operation and the control over his actions
remains unchanged.
X. Resultant Financial Saving.
The total contribution of $375,000 by CIA will result in an
additional $375,000 in matching funds provided under Public
Law 221. It is felt that the expenditure of these total funds is
justified by the importance of the programs which will be
pursued at the new facility. Even though the CIA contribution is
increased under this amended project, the total of Federal funds
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remains unchanged. The use of this facility will allow work to

proceed under conditions of cover and security which would be
impossible to obtain elsewhere without an expenditure of
equivalent or greater funds. In addition, by funding individual
projects for this facility through the [deletion] no charge will be
incurred for overhead expense. If research projects [deletion] are
openly sponsored by the U.S. Government, it is customary to pay
an overhead rate equivalent to 80% of salaries. However, if a
non-profit fund, such as [deletion] sponsors research, the funds
granted for the work are customarily used only to pay for
salaries, equipment and supplies, but not overhead. The Agency
thus buys considerably more research through [deletion] than
would be the case if no cut-out were used.
-5[document ends]

[document begins]
MEMORANDUM FOR: [illegible]
Herewith the file on MKULTRA, Sub-project 35, with our
comments on the legal aspects. While there is no legal control
and there are certain incidental considerations, there is no
fundamental legal objection if the probable benefits are
considered a fair return for this expenditure.
[deletion]
General Counsel
22 December 1954
(DATE)
[document ends]
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[document begins]
[deletion]
Tab A
SUBPROJECT 35 - PROJECT MKULTRA
For the purpose of establishing a cover organization for highly
sensitive projects in the field of covert Biological, Chemical and
Radiological Warfare
____________________________________
I. Background of Project MKULTRA.
In 1953 the DCI approved Project MKULTRA which established
procedures and controls under which research projects in certain
highly sensitive fields could be carried out by TSS without the
necessity of signing the usual contracts. The approved
procedures apply [deletion] over-all Research and Development
budget, and no additional funds are required. Controls
established in the Project Review Committee approval of the
Research and Development program (other than the signing of a
contract) remain unchanged, and special provisions for audit are
included. All files are retained by TSS.
These procedures and controls were approved since it is highly
undesirable from a policy and security point of view that
contracts be signed indicating Agency or Government interest in
this field of endeavor. In a great many instances the work must
be conducted by individuals who are not and should not be aware
of Agency interest. In other cases the individuals involved are
unwilling to have their names on a contract which remains out of
their control in our files. Experience has shown that qualified,
competent individuals in the field of physiological, psychiatric
and other biological sciences are very reluctant to enter into
signed agreements of any sort which would connect them with
this activity since such connection might seriously jeopardize
their professional reputations.
When Project MKULTRA was approved, it was not
contemplated that it would be used for the establishment of
cover. Over forty individual research and development projects
have been established under this framework and have been
carried out extremely successfully, both from technical and
administrative points of view. The experience gained in handling
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these projects has emphasized that establishment of better cover

both for the projects and for associated Agency scientists is of
utmost importance. Subproject 35 would establish such cover.

II. Background of the [deletion]
The [deletion] was incorporated in [deletion]. It has a Board of
Directors of six members, one of whom is [deletion] who acts as
Executive Director of the Fund. [deletion] it has solicited funds
from various individuals to finance a program of basic research
in the chemotherapy of cancer, asthma, hypertension,
psychosomatic disorders and other chronic diseases. Since 1951
[deletion] has co-operated with the Chemical Division of TSS
and acted smoothly and efficiently, both as a cut-out for dealing
with contractors in the fields of covert chemical and biological
warfare, and as a prime contractor for certain areas of biological
research. Projects presently being handled for the Agency by the
Fund are administered under the controls and procedures
previously approved for MKULTRA.
III. Background of [deletion]
[deletion] is internationally known as a [deletion] in the field of
[deletion] research and is [one line deleted] In the past he has
been associated in a research capacity with both the [deletion]
During the war [deletion] served as a [deletion] in the Bureau of
Medicine and Surgery in the Navy. Since then he has maintained
a consulting relationship to the Navy medical research program,
[deletion] is TOP SECRET cleared and witting of Agency
sponsorship of the programs carried out by the Fund as are two
other members of the Fund's Board of Directors.
IV. [deletion] Fund.
[one line deleted] has been actively engaged in a campaign to
raise funds for the purpose of erecting a new clinical research
wing on the existing [deletion] The research wing will consist of
a building six stories high, 320 feet long and 50 feet wide. Twothirds of the space will be research laboratories and offices while
100 research beds will occupy the remainder. [deletion]
participation in the fund-raising campaign outlined below will
result in his having control of one-sixth of the total space in
addition to the baseU.S. Sponsored Mind Control
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-2-

[deletion]
ment and general out-patient facilities. In this effort, [deletion]
has secured the enthusiastic support of the medical faculty and
the officers of the University who have carried the preliminary
arrangements forward to the maximum extent of their resources.
V. Financial Situation.
The University will require about $3,000,000 for the [deletion]
story addition. This sum is exclusive of the cost of land and the
heating and power supply, which are already available at the site.
At the present time under Public Law 221, funds are available to
match funds raised by the University. The University has
allocated $1,000,000 to this project and will assume upkeep and
staffing obligations. [deletion] has agreed that if CIA will
provide [deletion] a grant of $125,000, [deletion] will match this
amount and make a total donation of $250,000 to the University
Building Fund. This Agency's contribution will be made under
the condition that it will be refunded if construction does not take
place.
TSS has discussed this situation with [one line deleted] and has
encouraged [deletion] to donate $500,000 to the building project
on the basis that [deletion] will be conducted in the new wing.
[deletion] though aware of our interest in the building, is
unwitting of our specific fields of research and individual
projects. In summary, the financial situation would be as follows:
$1,000,000 - [deletion]
250,000 - Donation from [deletion] ($125,000 supplied by
CIA)
1,250,000 - Matched funds from Public Law 221
__________
$3,000,000 - TOTAL
Although it is recognized that the Federal contribution of
$1,250,000 under P. L. 221 is seemingly inflated by reason of the
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inclusion of the CIA contribution in that of [deletion] actually the

value to the CIA is $250,000 and not just $125,000, the amount
of CIA's contribution; furthermore the inclusion of the CIA
contribution in that of [deletion] is the best method of
maintaining security.
-3-

[deletion]
VI. Difficulties Faced by TSS.
It has been generally recognized for some time that the external
research activities of the Chemical Division of TSS in the field of
covert biological, chemical and radiological warfare are sorely in
need of proper cover. Although Project MKULTRA provides
excellent administrative and financial cover for projects, it does
not afford cover for scientific or technical personnel.
MKULTRA has been used for dealing through [deletion] as a
cut-out and for working directly with individuals or private
companies. The use of [deletion] in the future will be
increasingly limited due to
(a) The increasing number of people who, albeit properly
cleared, are aware of the Agency connection with [deletion]
(b) The feeling by [deletion] that the Agency employees
contacting him (Drs. Gottlieb, [deletion], etc.) have no cover of
any sort and consequently expose him to unnecessary and highly
undesirable personal risk; and
(c) The widespread intra-Agency awareness of the nature of
the relationship between the Fund and the Agency.
Another serious problem faced by TSS/CD as a result of lack of
suitable cover is the difficulty in planning careers for technical
and scientific personnel in the biological field. A long-range
career concept of activities in this field inevitably includes proper
cover for the individual concerned. The availability of research
facilities at [deletion] will offer an excellent opportunity to solve
many of the above problems, and [deletion] is willing and able to
make any reasonable arrangements to suit our needs. Up to three
Chemical Division employees can be integrated into [deletion]
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program for work in the new hospital wing on the Agency's

research projects. Although career planning was not a
consideration when planning the procedures and controls
established by Project MKULTRA, nevertheless this particular
subproject, in addition to its primary objective, will be of very
great secondary help
-4-

[deletion]
in simplifying and eliminating many of the very awkward and
dangerous conditions facing certain Chemical Division
employees.
VII. Advantages and Benefits Accruing to TSS.
The contemplated arrangements will result in many advantages
and benefits, including the following:
(a) One-sixth of the total space in the new research wing is to
be available to [deletion] and in turn, will be available to the
Chemical Division of TSS. This will provide laboratory and
office space, technical assistants, equipment and experimental
animals for use of Chemical Division personnel in connection
with specific future projects.
(b) The cost of Chemical Division projects which are to be
carried out under this cover will be covered by funds made
available through Project MKULTRA, and projects will be
subject to the procedures and controls established for
MKULTRA. The funds will be passed through [deletion] as has
been done in the past. [deletion] in turn will either pay expenses
directly or transfer the money to the University for this purpose.
Each project will be individually funded based on its particular
budget, and there will be no other continuing or recurring
charges for items such as space, facilities, etc.
(c) The Agency's sponsorship of sensitive research projects
would be completely deniable since no connections would exist
between the University and the Agency.
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(d) Excellent professional cover would be provided for up to

three bio-chemical employees of the Chemical Division of TSS.
This would allow open attendance of scientific meetings, the
advancement of personal standing in the scientific world. and as
such, would constitute a major efficiency and
-5-

morale booster.
(e) Human patients and volunteers for experiment use will be
available under excellent clinical conditions with the full
supervision of [one line deleted]
(f) There would be available the equivalent of a hospital
safehouse.
(g) It is expected that the output of useful results of the
Chemical Division in the bio-chemical field will be greatly
improved through the more efficient use of technical personnel
who would be able to spend more of their time on actual
laboratory work.
(h) [one and a half lines deleted]
(i) Excellent facilities would be provided for recruiting new
scientific personnel since members of the Chemical Division
working under this cover will be in daily contact with members
of the Graduate School of the University.
(j) The regular University library and reprint service will be
available as a source of technical information.
VIII. Funding.
It is proposed that $125,000 be granted to [deletion]. If approval
is granted, TSS will arrange for payment to be made under the
procedures and controls of MKULTRA. These funds would
come out of the presently approved TSS Research and
Development budget for FY 1955 and no new funds are
involved. The funds would be transferred as a grant to [deletion]
In turn [deletion] will match these funds with an equal amount
and donate a total of $250,000 to the University as outlined in
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paragraph V. The sum of $125,000 would be entirely in the

nature of a grant and would in due
-6-

course be merged with the entire $3,000,000 raised for the
construction of the wing. The Agency would retain no residual
interest in the building or title to any equipment or facilities
purchased with this money.
This single grant will constitute the Agency's entire participation
in the new hospital wing, and there will be no recurring
obligations in the form of annual support of the hospital or
additional grants. Transmission of Agency funds to [deletion]
will be made through previously established cover channels set
up by the [deletion] for similar transmittals in the past. The
donation on [deletion]s books will be shown as having been
received from [deletion].
In the future when TSS sponsors sensitive research projects
which are to be carried out in [deletion] each project will be
individually financed through [deletion] as it has been in the past
in accordance with previously established procedures and
controls using allotted portions of the annual Research and
Development budget. The University will be totally unwitting of
Agency sponsorship, and the projects to every outward
appearance will be sponsored by [deletion].
In the event of [deletion] death, [deletion] will continue in being
and any activities under this project will be continued through
[deletion] and will be unaffected by his death.
IX. Memorandum of Agreement.
A memorandum of agreement will be signed with [deletion]
outlining to the greater extent possible the arrangements under
which the hospital space under his control will be made available
to Chemical Division personnel and the manner in which cover
will be provided and other benefits obtained. No contract will be
signed since [deletion] would be unable to reflect any of the
Agency's contractual terms in his arrangements with the
University when [deletion] makes the donation in question. The
memorandum of agreement will be retained in TSS.
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X. Security.
All security matters and details are being co-ordinated with the
TSS/Liaison and Security Office.
-7-

[deletion]
XI. Resultant Financial Saving.
The $125,000 to be contributed by CIA plus the $125,000 in
matching funds provided under P. L. 221 to the Building Fund
will be more than offset in a few years by the savings which will
result from use of this non-profit fund. If a research project at
[deletion] or other educational non-profit institution is sponsored
by the U.S. Government, it is customary for the Government to
pay for salaries, equipment, supplies, etc. and for overhead as
well. In the case of [deletion] the overhead amounts to 80% of
salaries. However, if a non-profit foundation such as [deletion]
sponsors research at a non-profit institution, the funds granted for
the work are customarily used to pay for salaries, equipment and
supplies but not for overhead. The Government dollar thus buys
considerably more research through [deletion] than would be the
case if no cut-out were used.
XII. Legal Matters.
This matter has been discussed with [deletion] of the Office of
General Counsel, and he is fully aware of all details surrounding
this grant.
-8[document ends]
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[document begins]
9 April 1958
SUBJECT: Trip Report, Visit to [deletion]
7 April 1958
1. The purpose of this trip was to make arrangements for
closing out the [deletion] project. [deletion] had been given
ample previous notice that such was likely to be the intent of the
visit, and he prepared himself accordingly.
2. It was explained to [deletion] that it would not be possible
to carry over funds beyond the end of the current fiscal year.
Therefore all work would have to be completed and all payments
made prior to 30 June. This deadline approved acceptable to him,
and it was agreed that I would make my final visit there to
receive reports and attend to final details on 16 June. [deletion]
did not have a current financial report, but he estimated that
funds currently on hand would be about sufficient for remaining
expenditures. He agreed to send the Society within the next 10
days a more exact statement of current balance and estimated
remaining expenditures. I tried to impress on him strongly that
transfer of additional funds and/or return of unexpended funds
must be completed well before the end of the fiscal year.
3. Of the 30 cases called for in the original design 18 have
been completed (but only 4 have been transcribed from the
tapes). In addition there are 8 cases in progress (of which two are
already in interview and 6 are worked up to the point of having
the lists of questions prepared). It was agreed that to meet the
deadline we would have to limit the design to these 26 cases.
4. It is apparent that [deletion] is so involved in the
administrative problems of the project that he is not paying any
attention to the results. Since to date only 4 cases have been
transcribed there is no way of telling what is coming out of it. I
assume there were no dramatic reactions, because the
interviewers would have let him know about them had they
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emerged. It is possible, however, that our own analysis of the

data may dredge up something of value, although I am dubious
on this point.
5. [deletion] gave me his usual long involved talk on the
difficulties he had encountered which account for the delays. He
also talked at some

length about his "experiments" with hypnosis, some aspects of
which are mildly hair-raising. Finally he made quite a pitch for
continuing some such project as this next year, "with realistic,
specific deadlines." I told him we would discuss possibilities
after the present project was completed and we had a chance to
closely examine the take.
[deletion]
Distribution:
1 [deletion]
[document ends]

[document begins]
[deletion]
July 18, 1958
[deletion]
Dear Mr. [deletion]
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The experiment designed to test the effectiveness of certain

medication in causing individuals to release guarded information
has been completed in accordance with the original experimental
design, with the exception that 25 instead of 30 cases were used.
This matter was discussed in more detail in my letter of July 15.
Abstracts on all 25 cases, transcriptions of the interviews,
Wechsler-Bellevue Intelligence Tests given at the hospital and
previously given at this clinic, post-experimental rankings and
evaluation sheets, and a schedule covering the drug
administration have all been submitted to you under separate
cover.
Enclosed is a financial statement which represents the final
accounting of the funds allocated by you for use in this project.
If, for your purpose, you require a more detailed summary of
what specific professional services were performed or more
detail with reference to travel expenses or any other item, kindly
let me know.
You will note, in this connection, that Dr. [deletion] was
compensated in an amount exceeding that paid to Dr. [deletion]
This was occasioned by the fact that Dr. [deletion] spent much
time checking the files and records at the [deletion] and
[deletion] Prison selecting cases that might be suitable for our
purpose. It was from the cases selected by him that the subjects
used in the experiment were finally chosen.
I have been instructed to write a check to the Society for the
balance in the account as of today. I would like to

Mr. [deletion]
Page Two
July 18, 1958
delay this matter for a few days. Several checks have been
written during recent days, and I would like to be sure they
cleared the bank in [deletion] before closing out the account. You
will receive a check in the amount of $1356.26 early next week.
If there is any additional information required, I will be happy
to cooperate.
[signature deleted]
Executive Director
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[deletion]
Enc.
[document ends]

[document begins]
RESEARCH PLAN
LOCATION
The research Project will be carried out at the [deletion]
located at [deletion] which is located [deletion]. The hospital has
one thousand, one hundred and thirty-five (1,135) beds. At the
present time there are one hundred forty-two (142) nonpsychotics classified as criminal-sexual psychopaths. There are
four full-time psychiatrists and varying numbers of medical
interns; two psychologists; four social workers; nurses and
attendants. The superintendent of the Hospital is [deletion], a
witting member of the research team. The institution comes
under the direction of the Executive Secretary of the State
Department of Mental Health and any research project is
normally approved by the Co-ordinator of Research of the State
Department of Mental Health. [deletion] will secure this
approval. [deletion] will make space available and it is possible
for the research team to sleep at the Hospital while carrying out
their investigation.
SUBJECTS
The subjects will be selected from the one hundred and fortytwo (142) criminal-sexual psychopaths on whom there is an
adequate previous investigation including police reports,
physical, psychiatric and psychologic organizations and social
histories. The age range of the
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subjects varies from twenty to seventy years and there is a wide
variation of intelligence levels and social backgrounds.
INVESTIGATIONS
The following men are suggested for the research team:
[one line deleted], a psychologist who has had extensive
experience in examining criminals; has written extensively on
psychopathic sexual deviations; is an authority on polygraph and
interrogation methods.
[one line deleted] for some thirty years, a psychiatrist who has
spent his life in the treatment of the criminal insane and
rethinking the only institution [deletion] for the care and
treatment for the criminal-sexual psychopath.
[deletion] a psychiatrist who has a large private practice. At the
present time he is exclusively devoting his time to
psychoanalysis. He has had extensive experience examining
criminals. As a Navy psychiatrist he has had extensive
experience in [one line deleted] in the field of eastern cultures,
Oriental psychiatry, brainwashing, etc. He has also done drug
interrogation with criminals and has engaged in narcoanalysis
and hypnoanalysis.
-2-

[deletion] a psychiatrist who is on the staff of [one line deleted]
and maintains a private practice in the field of psychiatry.
[deletion] has had wide experience in dealing with criminals
going back some twenty-five years, including drug interrogation.
[deletion] a physician for the past twenty-five years, has been
[one line deleted] has had extensive experience dealing with all
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sorts of criminals and has engaged in drug interrogation. Besides

his city position, he also maintains a private practice in the field
of general medicine.
[deletion] has suggested one of the psychiatrists from his staff
who is interested and has used drugs in the treatment of patients
and has also used hypnosis with mental patients. The research
assistants have not been selected as yet but might well include
psychologists or medics now attached to [deletion]. The secretary
will be [deletion] present secretary who will do all the necessary
stenographic work in addition to her present duties.
EXPERIMENTAL BASICS:
Three teams of two senior professional men each will be
selected. One team working with the selected group of patients
will use straight interrogation, hypnosis and hypnosis and LSD
and hypnosis and a
-3-

tetrahydrocannabinol acetate derivative. Another team working
on another group of subjects will use straight interrogation, LSD
with interrogation and a tetrahydrocannabinol acetate derivative
and interrogation. Later the third team with another group of
subjects will use straight interrogation and a combination of LSD
and a tetrahydrocannabinol acetate derivative.
A meeting of all the members of the research project will be
briefed on the drugs to be used and all of the pharmacological
and medical knowledge gained so far in the use of these drugs.
In selecting groups of subjects for experimentation, the
following objectives will be sought:
1) Subjects will be selected who have denied allegations of
various kinds that can be chocked or strongly assumed on the
basis of previously established records.
2) As far as possible, the actual research man administering
drugs will note aware of the drug he is administering and
placebos will be interspersed with drug administration.
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3) Precautions will be taken to neutralize age, intelligence,

physical condition, social background and any other controllable
factor in selecting groups. Administration of drugs will be done
both openly and surreptitiously.
4) Sound recordings will be made of the interrogation and
written reports will be obtained in other cases.
-4-

5) Due care will be exercised in equating methods of
interrogation as far as this can be done. The results of
interrogation with drugs and other techniques will be checked
against existing records and qualitative and quantitative reports
will be kept and reports will be submitted on the basis of interim
progress and complete projects.
-5[document ends]

[document begins]
DRAFT/[deletion]
30 January 1961
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1. Subproject 42 is to be continued for the same purpose as

when originally established: to support [deletion] covert and
realistic field trials of certain research and development items of
interest to TSD, and to maintain the physical facilities required
for these trials.
2. In the past year a number of covert and realistic field trials
have been successfully carried out. The results of these
experiments have provided factual data essential to establishing
protocols for a number of contemplated operations. A
continuation of covert and realistic field trials are necessitated by
the production of new materials in TSD programs, particularly in
areas requiring detailed knowledge of the effectiveness and
efficiency of delivery systems. Additional trials are also
necessitated by the need for better controlled "field-type"
experiments.
3. The estimated cost of the project is $5,000,000 for a period
of six months. Charges should be made against Allotment 11251390-3902.
4. Accounting for funds and equipment under this subproject
has been established on a detailed basis with the auditor and will
continue as in the past.

5. [deletion] is approved for TOP SECRET by the Agency
and operates under cover for purposes of this subproject.
[signature deleted]
TSD/Research Branch
[signature deleted]
Date:
Distribution:
Original only.
[document ends]
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[document begins]
24 January 1955
Subproject 42 is being established to provide for the
continued support of the [deletion] facilities, and as such, is a
continuation of Subproject 16. Under Subproject 42, it is
intended that the [deletion] facilities be moved from [deletion] to
[deletion] These facilities, in the new location, will continue to
provide a means for the realistic testing of certain R and D items
of interest to CD/TSS and APD/TSS.
2. Subproject 42 will be conducted by Mr. [deletion] a
seaman. Certain support activation will be provided by CD/TSS
and AFD/TSS.
3. The estimated cost for a period of one year is $8,300.00,
starting 1 March 1955.
[signature: Robert Lashbrook for]
SIDNEY GOTTLIEB
Chief
[signature deleted]
Research Director
Date: 27 Jan 1955
APPROVED FOR ADDITIONAL OBLIGATION OF FUNDS:
($2,089.34)
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[signature deleted]
[deletion] Research Director
Date: June 27 1956
Original Only.
[document ends]

[document begins]
21 March 1955
[deletion]
activities now engaged in by the [deletion], in its own facilities
under the direction of TSS, Chemical Division. These activities
will take the form of three lines of biochemical investigation;
namely, the curare-like effect of certain thiols, the preparation of
hydrogenated quinolines and indole alkaloids, and the continued
study of diphenolic compounds. In addition to the above
investigations, the present biological testing and assaying
techniques will be elaborated and broadened to include
cardiovascular and anticarcinogenic effects of compounds
resulting from the above programs.
2. The attached proposal from [deletion] indicates the extent
of the investigations that his facilities will allow him to carry out
on the materials developed in the three lines of research referred
to in paragraph 1, as well as certain other materials of interest to
TSS/CD. [deletion] also serves as a general consultant to this
Division and provides cover and cut-out facilities to the Agency.
not exceed $100,000.00 At the present time, the sum of
$40,000.00 is being committed, the balance of the total to be
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committed at a later date.

4. [deletion] has been granted a TOP SECRET clearance by
the Agency, and is fully capable of protecting the security of the
Government's interest in this matter.
[signature deleted]
TSS, Chemical Division
[signature deleted]
Research Director
Date: 24 Mar 55
APPROVED:
[signature deleted]
Chief TSS/Chemical Division
APPROVED FOR ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATION OF
$27,000:
[signature deleted]
Research Director
Date: Jun 2 1955
Attachments:
Proposal
Original Only.
[document ends]

[document begins]
30 January 1956
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MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORDS

activities now engaged in by the [deletion] under the direction of
TSS/CD. These activities take the form of three lines of
biochemical investigation, namely, the Curare-like effect of
certain this, the preparation of hydrogenated quinolines and
indole alkaloids and a program of investigation of toxic cerebral
states. This last investigation will include bio-assay and chemical
analysis of various body fluids of animals in which cerebral
toxemias have been produced. It is the aim of this program to
endeavor to understand the mechanism of such states as toxic
delirium, uremic coma, and cerebral toxicity from poisoning. In
order to continue the established "cover" activities of the
[deletion] and to make available a pool of subjects for testing
purposes, the [deletion] and [deletion] effects of compounds
resulting from the above program will be evaluated.
2. The attached proposal from [deletion] indicates the extent
of the investigations that his facilities will allow him to carry out
on the materials developed in the three lines of research referred
to in paragraph one, as well as certain other materials of interest
to TSS/CD. [deletion] also serves as a general consultant to this
Division and provides cover and cut-out facilities to the Agency.
not exceed $100,000. Charges should be made against Allotment
6-2502-10-001.
4. [deletion] has been requested to submit a summary
accounting or a copy of the [deletion] annual audit report be
made available for the sponsor's inspection. Also, it has been
requested that any unexpended funds shall be returned to the
Agency.
5. Title to any permanent equipment purchased by funds
granted [deletion] shall be retained by the [deletion] in lieu of
higher overhead rates.
* other than its activities as a cut-out

6. It was mutually agreed that documentation and accounting
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for travel expenses which are normally reimbursable by the

[deletion] shall conform with the accepted practices of the
[deletion]
7. [deletion] agreed to comply with the requirements of the
Memorandum of Agreement.
[signature deleted]
APPROVED:
Chief, TSS Chemical Division
[signature deleted]
Research Director
Date: 2 Feb 1956
Attachment:
Proposal
Distribution:
Original Only
[document ends]

[document begins]
1960
The research to be undertaken during the twelve month period
for which financial support is requested will be devoted to the
continued analysis of the neural and endocrine mechanism of
stress and the chemical agents that influence it. The screening
procedures are based largely upon a further analysis of phases of
stress and the influences of this physiologic behavior complex
upon both body and skin temperatures as detailed in the
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accompanying report.
The chemical synthesis of new compounds will be continued
at the [deletion] under the supervision of [deletion] and at the
[deletion] under the supervision of [deletion] These chemical
agents will be screened for their capacity to provoke stress or to
suppress the stress reaction in its acute or chronic phases. Animal
testing will include pharmacologic screening and proper toxicity
studies of these compounds as heretofore.
Chemical agents that have been found active and within a
suitable toxicity range will be subjected to clinical screening on
appropriate patients, the initial screening being carried out on
advanced cancer patients. The amount of money devoted to
chemical synthesis, however, has been further reduced. Chemical
compounds available from biologic sources as well as those
synthesized in the project will be screened, particularly those that
are active in either raising or lowering body temperature.
As heretofore any agents which prove to be of interest
[deletion] both on transplant

Page 2
animal tumors and on cancer patients. This cancer phase of the
project will be considered a by-product of the major objective,
which will be directed to the problem of stress.
[document ends]

[document begins]
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SUBJECT: Continuation of MKULTRA, Subproject No. 45

1. The scope of this subproject includes all those activities
now engaged in by [deletion], under the direction of TSD/RB
with the exception of those cutout functions specifically
mentioned in connection with other MKULTRA subprojects. In
general, the research effort under this subproject will continue
along the lines laid down in previous years. These involve the
synthesis and pharmacological and clinical evaluation of
compounds of those chemical families known to have application
in the psychochemical and "K" fields. During the past year
important progress has been made in the area related to stressor
compounds and the relationship of these materials to the
physiological pathways through which both stress and the
reaction to it are mediated in human beings. As indicated in the
attached proposal, the work of the past year has progressed to the
point where more definitive experiments on the stress reaction
can be carried out. Primarily this was brought about by the
characterization of several new materials which produce stress
reaction in humans and the application of some new clinical
methods of measuring the extent of the disturbance produced.
During the next year proportionally more effort will be expended
on the problem of the development of new

"knock-out" types of agents since progress has been slower than
is desirable in this direction and because a new approach to the
problem has been worked out.
2. [deletion] also serves as a general consultant to the Agency,
provides services of a sensitive nature on an ad hoc basis, and
serves as a cut-out in procurement problems.
not exceed $71,500.00 [handwritten note above: 40,000.00].
Charges should be made against Allotment 0525-1009-4902.
4 [deletion] has been requested to submit a summary
accounting or a copy of the Fund's annual audit report for the
sponsor's inspection. Also, it has been requested that any
unexpended funds shall be returned to the Agency.
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granted [deletion] shall be retained by [deletion], in lieu of higher
overhead rates.
for travel expenses which are normally reimbursable by
[deletion] shall conform with the accepted practices of the Fund.
[document ends]

[document begins]
SUBJECT: Continuation of MKULTRA, Subproject No. 45
1. The scope of this subproject includes all those activities
now engaged in by [deletion] under the direction of TSD/RB
with the exception of those cutout functions specifically
mentioned in connection with other MKULTRA subprojects. In
general, the research effort under this subproject will continue
along the lines laid down in previous years. These involve the
synthesis and pharmacological and clinical evaluation of
compounds of those chemical families known to have application
in the psychochemical and "K" fields. During the coming year it
is planned to concentrate more directly on the more practical
aspects of the "knockout" problem. Enough new potent
substances have become available lately to make such a change
in emphasis worthwhile. In connection with this change it should
be noted that certain findings made in [deletion] project at
[deletion] which cannot be further exploited at that facility will
be pursued at [deletion] in the future. For this reason it may be
necessary to supplement the findings of this subproject from time
to time during the year due to increases of scope.
2. [deletion] also serves as a general consultant to the Agency,
provides services of a sensitive nature on an ad hoc basis, and
serves as a cutout in procurement problems.
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not exceed $40,000. Charges should be made against Allotment
2125-1390-3902.
4. [deletion] has been requested to submit a summary
accounting or a copy of the Fund's annual audit report for the
sponsor's inspection. Also, it has been requested that any
unexpended funds shall be returned to the Agency.
granted [deletion] shall be retained by [deletion] in lieu of higher
overhead rates.
for travel expenses which are normally reimbursable by
[deletion] shall conform with the accepted practices of the Fund.
[signature deleted]
Chief
TSD/Research Branch

[signature deleted]
Research Director
Date [illegible]
Attachment: Proposal and Budget
Distribution: Original only
[document ends]
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[document begins]
DRAFT
24 January 1964
SUBJECT: MKULTRA, Subproject 149
1. This subproject is being established for the purpose of
supporting realistic tests of certain development items and
delivery systems of interest to TSD/BB.
[handwritten note: 31 Jan '64 Testing in stand-down until policy
issues (illegible) at DCI level. OK to (illegible)]
2. During the course of development it is sometimes found
that certain very necessary experiments or tests are not suited to
ordinary laboratory facilities. At the same time, it would be
difficult if not impossible to conduct such tests as operational
field tests. This project is designed to provide a capability and
facilities to fill this intermediate requirement.
3. The activities under this subproject will be conducted by
Mr. [deletion], an individual in the import and export business, in
[deletion] Mr. [deletion] holds a TOP SECRET Treasury
Department clearance and a SECRET Agency approval. He is
completely witting of the aims and goals of his activities.
4. Mr. [deletion] possesses unique facilities and personal
abilities which makes him invaluable in this kind of testing
operation. Mr. [deletion] because of his peculiar talents and

-2capabilities as well as his excellent connections with all of the
local law enforcement agencies, will provide a unique and
essential capability. Because Mr. [deletion] is no longer resident
of the [deletion] area, it is necessary that a suitable replacement
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be provided in order that a capability for continuance of our

activities be maintained.
5. The estimated cost of the project is $10,000.00 for a period
of one year. Charges should be made against Allotment Number
4125-1390-3902. Reimbursement will be made for services
rendered.
6. Accounting for funds advanced and any equipment under
this subproject will be in accordance with accounting procedures
established by the [deletion] [handwritten note: Administration
Staff/TSD] [deletion]
7. A memorandum of agreement along lines established by
previous audit recommendations in like situations will be
executed.
[signature deleted]
Chief
TSD/Biological Branch
Distribution:
Original only
[document ends]

[document begins]
SUBJECT: Request for Support of Research on the Mechanism
of Brain Concussion
1. This is a request for financial support for research on the
mechanism of brain concussion for the period 1 Feb 1956 to 1
Feb 1957.
2. The resonance-cavitation theory upon which this research is to
be based has been presented in the proposal submitted to the
[deletion] dated 27 March 1954.
3. The program as originally submitted estimated the duration of
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the program to be from three to five years requesting a total of

$72,109 for the initial year.
4. At the request of the [deletion] a reduced budget was
submitted.
5. [deletion], amounting to $24,925, was then awarded to the
[deletion] to support this program from 1 Feb 1955 to 1 Feb
1956.
6. The progress made to date under the above contract can be
summarized as follows:
A. RESEARCH FACILITIES
The following research facilities have been established for
the investigation of the very diverse aspects of the problems
being studied:
a. [deletion]
A total of 2500 square feet of laboratory and office
space equipped with much of the diversified machinery and
apparatus necessary for research in this field.
b. Blast Range
A blast range has been established at [deletion] located
approximately [deletion] of the main laboratory. This area is
owned by the [deletion] and is closed to the public. Three blast
test series have been run to date.
c. [deletion]
Arrangements have been made with the [one line
deleted] for use of their human cadavers. A test area has been
assigned for this

B. PERSONNEL
Both full-time technical personnel and part-time professional
research personnel have been acquired and indoctrinated relative
to their specific function.
C. TECHNICAL PROGRAMS
Following is the technical progress made under the current
[deletion] contract:
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a. Specialized instrumentation and numerous testing

techniques have been developed to obtain the desired dynamic
data.
b. Considerable data has now been obtained supporting the
resonance-cavitation theory of brain concussion.
c. Preliminary acceleration threshold data has been
obtained for a fluid-filled glass simulated skull.
d. Data has been obtained on the nature and the magnitude
of pressure fluctuations within a glass simulated skull subject to
either impact or sound waves propagated in air.
e. Initial studies have been made on the simulated glass
skull attempting to establish the cavitation patterns for various
types of impact.
7. The proposed method and program plan remain the same as
stated in the original proposal, except for the temporary deletion
of the immersion blast study.
8. The current level of activity on this project can be indicated by
the most recent billing to the [deletion] for the month of
November, which amounted to $4,034.61.
9. In the interest of efficiency and economy it is requested that at
least this level of activity be maintained for the coming year.

10.0 POTENTIAL APPLICATIONS OF THE RESEARCH
FUNDING
10.1 Trotter, W. defines brain concussion as: "an essentially
transient state due to head injury which is of instantaneous onset,
manifests widespread symptoms of purely paralytic kind, does
not as such comprise any evidence of structural cerebral injury,
and is always followed by amnesia for the actual moment of the
accident."
10.2 The implication of the underlined portion of the above
statement is that if a technique were devised to induce brain
concussion without giving either advance warning or causing
external physical trauma, the person upon recovery would be
unable to recall what had happened to him. Under these
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conditions the same technique of producing the concussion could

be re-used many times without disclosure of its nature.
10.3 First, considering the possibilities of direct impact to the
head or body, it should be possible from the findings of this
research program to determine the following:
a. Optimum design of impacting devices.
b. Optimum points of impact on skull or body.
c. Intensity of the blow for the effect desired.
10.4 In regard to the potential impacting devices, there are
certain design requisites that are apparent at this time:
a. The impact should be delivered without advance
warning.
b. The area of impact and force distribution should be such
that surface trauma does not occur.
c. The intensity of the impacting force and its duration
should be such as to obtain the desired effect.
d. The device should be as small and as silent as possible.
10.5 The specific impacting devices might take the form of any
of the following:
a. A pancake type black-jack giving a high peak impact
force with a low unit surface pressure.
b. Concealed or camouflaged spring-loaded impacting
devices that trigger upon contact with the head.
(Original and sole copy :agg)

c. A projectile type impactor such as an air gun using a
small shot filled sack for a projectile.
d. An explosive pad detonated in contact with the head or
the body.
10.6 Let us now consider the possibilities of exciting the
resonance cavitation directly without impact. There is
considerable evidence that resonance cavitation can be induced
directly in the following ways:
a. A blast wave propogated in air. (Blast Concussion)
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b. Physical excitation with a mechanical driver or horn,

turned to the resonant frequency of the head.
10.7 A single blast pressure wave propogated in air must have
considerable intensity in order to produce brain concussion.
However, there is considerable evidence (Carver & Dinsley) that
modification of the pressure wave can produce profound effects.
10.8 Excitation of the resonance cavitation by using a tuned
driver at this time appears to be well within the realm of
possibility. The neurotic-like manifestations normally associated
with blast concussion could possibly be induced by this method.
Use of this method, however, would require actual physical
contact with the drivers.
10.9 Excitation of the resonance cavitation by tuned sound waves
also appears to be a reasonable possibility. Concentration of the
sound-field at some remote point could be effected with
acoustical lenses and reflectors. The blast duration would be in
the order of a tenth of a second. Masking of a noise of this
duration should not be too difficult.
11.0 It would possibly be advantageous to establish the
effectiveness of both of the above methods as a tool in brainwash therapy. A full knowledge of the method and the resulting
sequela should be of aid to any person forced to submit to such
treatment.
12.0 Possibly the most significant potential aspect of this study
would be in the development of practical means of giving a
person immunity, even though temporary, to brain concussion.
One technique that appears to have potentialities involves the
introduction of a small quantity of gas, approximately 1 cc, into
the spinal cord. This gas bubble would then normally migrate to
the ventricles located at the centrum of the brain. The ability of
this bubble to expand under dynamic loading would be most
effective in preventing resonance cavitation from occurring.
(Original and sole copy :agg)
[document ends]

[document begins]
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MATERIAL FOR THE RECORD

MKSEARCH, OFTEN/CHICKWIT
MKSEARCH was the name given to the continuation of the
MKULTRA program. Funding commenced in FY 1966, and
ended in FY 1972. Its purpose was to develop, test, and evaluate
capabilities in the covert use of biological, chemical, and
radioactive material systems and techniques for producing
predictable human behavioral and/or physiological changes in
support of highly sensitive operational requirements.
OFTEN/CHICKWIT
In 1967 the Office of Research and Development (ORD) and
the Edgewood Arsenal Research Laboratories undertook a
program for doing research on the identification and
characterization of drugs that could influence human behavior.
Edgewood had the facilities for the full range of laboratory and
clinical testing. A phased program was envisioned that would
consist of acquisition of drugs and chemical compounds believed
to have effects on the behavior of humans, and testing and
evaluation these materials through laboratory procedures and
toxicological studies. Compounds believed promising as a result
of tests on animals were then to be evaluated clinically with
human subjects at Edgewood. Substances of potential use would
then be analyzed structurally as a basis for identifying and
synthesizing possible new derivatives of greater utility.
The program was divided into two projects. Project OFTEN
was to deal with testing and toxicological, transmissivity and
behavioral effects of drugs in animals and, ultimately, humans.
Project CHICKWIT was concerned with acquiring information
on new drug developments in Europe and the Orient, and with
acquiring samples.
There is a discrepancy between the testimony of DOD and
CIA regarding the testing at Edgewood Arsenal in June 1973.
While there is agreement that human testing occurred at that
place and time, there is disagreement as to who was responsible
for financing and sponsorship. (See hearings before the
Subcommittee, September 21, 1977.)
[document ends]
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[document begins]
THE DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20505
Counsel
Office of Legislative
23 December 1977
Honorable Daniel K. Inouye, Chairman

Dear Mr. Chairman:
During Admiral Turner's 3 August 1977 testimony before
your Committee and the Senate Human Resources Subcommittee
on Health and Scientific Research, you asked whether any
Agency employees had been terminated because of their
participation in MKULTRA Subproject 3. Admiral Turner
indicated he did not believe any employee had been terminated,
but would have Agency records searched on this question. Our
records have been searched and the results confirm the Director's
testimony that no such actions were taken.
Sincerely,
[George L. Cary signature]
George L. Cary
Legislative Counsel
[document ends]

[document begins]
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QKHILLTOP DEFINITION
QKHILLTOP was a cryptonym assigned in 1954 to a project
to study Chines Communist brainwashing techniques and to
develop interrogation techniques. Most of the early studies are
believed to have been conducted by the Cornell University
Medical School Human Ecology Study Programs. The effort was
absorbed into the MKULTRA program and the QKHILLTOP
cryptonym became obsolete. The Society for the investigation of
Human Ecology, later the Human Ecology Fund, was an
outgrowth of the QKHILLTOP.
[document ends]
Appendix A: Testing and Use of Chemical and

Biological Agents by the Intelligence Community
Appendix B: Documents Referring to Discovery of
Additional MKULTRA Material
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1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: Testimony of CIA Director Stansfield Turner
Page 1 of 20
Sign the Resolution

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Table of Contents
TESTIMONY OF ADM. STANSFIELD TURNER,

DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE
Accompanied by Frank Laubinger, Office of Technical Services; Al Brody, Office of
Inspector General; Ernest Mayerfield, Office of General Counsel; and George L. Cary,
Legislative Counsel
Admiral TURNER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to begin by thanking you and
Senator Kennedy for having a joint hearing this morning. I hope this will expedite and facilitate
our getting all the information that both of your committees need into the record quickly.
I would like also to thank you both for prefacing the remarks today by reminding us all that the
events about which we are here to talk are 12- to 24-years old. They in no way represent the
current activities or policies of the Central Intelligence Agency.
What we are here to do is to give you all the information that we now have and which we did not
previously have on a subject known s Project MKULTRA, a project which took place from 1953
to 1964. It was an umbrella project under which there were numerous subprojects for research,
among other things, on drugs and behavioral modification. What the new material that we offer
today is a supplement to the considerable material that was made available in 1975, during the
Church committee hearings, and also to the Senate Subcommittee on Health and Scientific
Research.
At that time, the CIA offered up all of the information and documents it believed it had available.
The principal one available at that time that gave the greatest amount of information on this
subject was a report of the CIA's Inspector General written in 1963, and which led directly to the
termination of this activity in 1964, 13 years ago.
The information available in 1975 to the various investigating groups was indeed sparse, first
because of the destruction of material that took place in 1973, as detailed by Senator Kennedy a
minute ago, with the concurrence of the then Director of Central Intelligence and under the
supervision of the Director of the Office of Technical Services that supervised Project
MKULTRA.
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-9The material in 1975 was also sparse because most of the CIA people who had been involved in
1953 to 1964 in this activity had retired from the Agency. I would further add that I think the
material was sparse in part because it was the practice at that time not to keep detailed records in
this category.
For instance, the 1963 report of the Inspector General notes:
Present practice is to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test programs.
In brief, there were few records to begin with and less after the destruction of 1973.
What I would like to do now, though, is to proceed and let you know what the new material adds
to our knowledge of this topic, and I will start by describing how the material was discovered and
why it was not previously discovered. The material in question, some seven boxes, had been sent
to our Retired Records Center outside of the Washington area. It was discovered that as the result
of an extensive search by an employee charged with the responsibility for maintaining our
holdings on behavioral drugs and for responding to Freedom of Information Act requests on this
subject.
During the Church committee investigation of 1975, searches for MKULTRA-related material
were made by examining both the active and the retired records of all of the branches of CIA
considered likely to have had an association with MKULTRA documents. The retired records of
the Budget and Fiscal Section of the branch that was responsible for such work were not
searched, however. This was because the financial paper associated with sensitive projects such
as MKULTRA were normally maintained by the branch itself under the project title, MKULTRA,
not by the Budget and Fiscal Section under the project title, MKULTRA, not by the Budget and
Fiscal Section under a special budget file.
In the case at hand, however, this newly located material had been sent to the Retired Records
Center in 1970 by the Budget and Fiscal Section of this branch as part of its own retired holdings.
In short, what should have been filed by the branch itself was filed by the Budget and Fiscal
Section, and what should have been filed under the project title, MKULTRA, was filed under
budget and fiscal matters. The reason for this departure from the normal procedure of that time is
simply not known, and as a result of it, however, the material escaped retrieval and destruction in
1973, as well as discovery in 1975.
The employee who located this material did so by leaving no stone unturned in his efforts to
respond to a Freedom of Information Act request, or several of them, in fact. He reviewed all of
the listings of material of this branch, stored at the Retired Records Center, including those of the
Budget and Fiscal Section, and thus discovered the MKULTRA-related documents, which had
been missed in the previous searches.
In sum, the agency failed to uncover these particular documents in 1973, in the process of
attempting to destroy them. It similarly failed to locate them in 1975, in response to the Church
committee hearings. I am personally persuaded that there is no evidence of any attempt to conceal
this material during the earlier searches. Moreover, as we will discuss as we proceed, I do not
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believe the material itself is such that
-10there would be a motive on the part of the CIA to withhold this, having disclosed what it did in
1975.
Next, let me move to the nature of this recently located material. It is important to remember what
I have just noted, that these folders that were discovered are finance folders. The bulk of the
material in them consists of approvals for the advance of funds, vouchers, and accountings and
such, most of which are not very informative as to the nature of the activities that they were
supporting. Occasional project proposals or memoranda commenting on some aspect of a
subproject are scattered throughout this material. In general, however, the recovered material does
not include overall status reports or other documents relating to operational considerations, or to
the progress on various subprojects, though some elaboration of the activities contemplated does
appear from time to time.
There are roughly three categories of projects. First, there are 149 MKULTRA subprojects, many
of which appear to have some connection with research into behavioral modification, drug
acquisition and testing, or administering drugs surreptitiously. Second, there are two boxes of
miscellaneous MKULTRA papers, including audit reports and financial statements from
intermediary funding mechanisms used to conceal CIA sponsorship of various research projects.
Finally, there are 33 additional subprojects concerning certain intelligence activities previously
funded under MKULTRA but which have nothing to do either with behavioral modifications,
drugs or toxins, or any closely related matter.
We have attempted to group the activities covered by the 149 subprojects into categories under
descriptive headings. In broad outline, at least, this presents the contents of these files. The
following 15 categories are the ones we have divided these into.
First, research into the effects of behavioral drugs and/or alcohol. Within this, there are 17
projects probably not involving human testing. There are 14 subprojects definitely involving
testing on human volunteers. There are 19 subprojects probably including tests on human
volunteers and 6 subprojects involving tests on unwitting human beings.
Second, there is research on hypnosis, eight subprojects, including two involving hypnosis and
drugs in combination.
Third, there are seven projects on the acquisition of chemicals or drugs.
Fourth, four subprojects on the aspects of the magician's art, useful in covert operations, for
instance, the surreptitious delivery of drug-related materials.
Fifth, there are nine projects on studies of human behavior, sleep research, and behavioral change
during psychotherapy.
Sixth, there are projects on library searches and attendants at seminars and international
conferences on behavioral modifications.
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Seventh, there are 23 projects on motivational studies, studies of defectors, assessments of

behavior and training techniques.
Eighth, there are three subprojects on polygraph research.
Ninth, there are three subprojects on funding mechanisms for MKULTRA's external research
activities.
-11Tenth, there are six subprojects on research on drugs, toxins, and biologicals in human tissue,
provision of exotic pathogens, and the capability to incorporate them in effective delivery
systems.
Eleventh, there are three subprojects involving funding support for unspecified activities
conducted with the Army Special Operations Division at Fort Detrich, Md. This activity is
outlined in Book I of the Church committee report, pages 388 to 389. (See Appendix A, pp. 6869).
Under CIA's Project MKNAOMI, the Army assisted the CIA in developing, testing, and
maintaining biological agents and delivery systems for use against humans as well as against
animals and crops.
Thirteenth, there are single subprojects in such areas as the effects of electroshock, harassment
techniques for offensive use, analysis of extrasensory perception, gas propelled sprays and
aerosols, and four subprojects involving crop and material sabotage.
Fourteenth, one or two subprojects on each of the following: blood grouping research; controlling
the activities of animals; energy storage and transfer in organic systems; and stimulus and
response in biological systems.
Finally, 15th, there are three subprojects canceled before any work was done on them having to
do with laboratory drug screening, research on brain concussion, and research on biologically
active materials.
Now, let me address how much this newly discovered material adds to what has previously been
reported to the Church committee and to Senator Kennedy's Subcommittee on Health. The answer
is basically additional detail. The principal types of activities included in these documents have
for the most part been outlined or to some extent generally described in what was previously
available in the way of documentation and which was supplied by the CIA to the Senate
investigators.
For example, financial disbursement records for the period of 1960 to 1964 for 76 of these 149
subprojects had been recovered by the Office of Finance at CIA and were made available to the
Church committee investigators. For example, the 1963 Inspector General report on MKULTRA
made available to both the Church Committee and the Subcommittee on Health mentions
electroshock and harassment substances, covert testing on unwitting U.S. citizens, the search for
new materials through arrangements with specialists in hospitals and universities, and the fact that
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the Technical Service Division of CIA had initiated 144 subprojects related to the control of
human behavior.
For instance also, the relevant section of a 1957 Inspector General report was also made available
to the Church committee staff, and that report discusses the techniques for human assessment and
unorthodox methods of communication, discrediting and disabling materials which can be
covertly administered, studies on magicians' arts as applied to covert operations, and other similar
topics.
The most significant new data that has been discovered are, first, the names of researchers and
institutions who participated in
-12MKULTRA projects, and second, a possibly improper contribution by the CIA to a private
institution. We are now in the possession of the names of 185 nongovernment researchers and
assistants who are identified in the recovered material dealing with these 149 subprojects.
There are also names of 80 institutions where work was done or with which these people were
affiliated. The institutions include 44 colleges or universities, 15 research foundation or chemical
or pharmaceutical companies or the like, 12 hospitals or clinics, in addition to those associated
with the universities, and 3 penal institutions.
While the identities of some of these people and institutions were known previously, the
discovery of the new identities adds to our knowledge of MKULTRA.
The facts as they pertain to the possibly improper contribution are as follows. One project
involves a contribution of $375,000 to a building fund of a private medical institution. The fact
that that contribution was made was previously known. Indeed, it was mentioned in the 1957
report of the Inspector General on the Technical Service Division of CIA that supervised
MKULTRA, and pertinent portions of this had been reviewed by the Church committee staff.
The newly discovered material, however, makes it clear that this contribution was made through
an intermediary, which made it appear to be a private donation. As a private donation, the
contribution was then matched by Federal funds. The institution was not made aware of the true
source of the gift. This project was approved by the then Director of Central Intelligence and
concurred in by CIA's top management including the then General Counsel, who wrote an
opinion supporting the legality of the contribution.
The recently discovered documents also give greater insight into the scope of an unwitting nature
of the drug testing, but contribute little more than that. We now do have corroborating
information that some of the unwitting drug testing was carried out in what is known in the
intelligence trade as safe houses in San Francisco and in New York City, and we have identified
that three individuals were involved in this undertaking, whereas we previously reported there
was only one person.
We also know that some unwitting testing took place on criminal sexual psychopaths confined at
a State hospital, and that additionally research was done on a knockout or K drug in parallel with
research to develop painkillers for cancer patients.
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These, then, are the principal findings identified to date in our review of this recovered material.
As noted earlier, we believe the detail on the identities of researchers and institutions involved in
CIA sponsorship of drug and behavioral modification research is a new element and one which
poses a considerable problem. Most of the people and institutions involved were not aware of
CIA sponsorship. We should certainly assume that the researchers and institutions which
cooperated with CIA on a witting basis acted in good faith and in the belief that they were aiding
their Government in a legitimate and proper purpose.
I believe that we all have a moral obligation to these researchers and institutions to protect them
from any unjustified embarrassment
-13or damage to their reputations which revelation of their identities might bring. In addition, I have
a legal obligation under the Privacy Act not to publicly disclose the names of the individual
researchers without their consent.
This is especially true, of course, for those researchers and institutions which were unwitting
participants in CIA sponsored activities.
Nonetheless, Mr. Chairman, I certainly recognize the right and the need of both the Senate Select
Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Subcommittee on Health and Scientific Research to
investigate the circumstances of these activities in whatever detail you consider necessary. I am
providing your committee with all of the documentation, including all of the names, on a
classified basis. I hope that this will facilitate your investigation while still protecting the
individuals and the institutions involved.
Let me emphasize again that the MKULTRA events are 12 to 24 years in the past, and I assure
you that CIA is in no way engaged in either witting or unwitting testing of drugs today.
Finally, I am working closely with the Attorney General on this matter. We are making available
to the Attorney General whatever materials he may deem necessary to any investigations that he
may elect to undertake. Beyond that, we are also working with the Attorney General to determine
whether it is practicable from this new evidence to identify any of the persons to whom drugs
were administered, but we are now trying to determine if there are adequate clues to lead to their
identification, and if so how best to go about fulfilling the Government's responsibilities in this
matter.
Mr. Chairman, as we proceed with that process of attempting to identify the individuals and then
determining what is our proper responsibility to them, I will keep both of these committees fully
advised. I thank you, sir.
Senator INOUYE. Thank you very much, Admiral Turner. Your spirit of cooperation is much
appreciated. I would like to announce to the committee that in order to give every member an
opportunity to participate in this hearing, that we would set a time limit of 10 minutes per
Senator.
Admiral Turner, please give this committee the genesis of MKULTRA. Who or what committee
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or commission or agency was responsible for dreaming up this grandiose and sinister project, and
why was it necessary? What is the rationale or justification for such a project and was the
President of the United States aware of this?
Admiral TURNER. Mr. Chairman, I am going to ask Mr. Brody on my right, who is a long-time
member of the CIA to address that in more detail. I believe everything that we know about the
genesis was turned over to the Church committee and is contained in that material. Basically, it
was a CIA-initiated project. It started out of a concern of our being taken advantage of by other
powers who would use drugs against our personnel, and it was approved in the Agency. I have
asked the question you just asked me, and have been assured that there is no evidence within the
Agency of any involvement at higher echelons, the White House, for instance, or specific
approval. That does not say there was not, but we have no such evidence.
-14Mr. Brody, would you amplify on my comments there, please?

Mr. BRODY. Mr. Chairman, I really have very little to add to that. To my knowledge, there was
no Presidential knowledge of this project at the time. It was a CIA project, and as the admiral
said, it was a project designed to attempt to counteract what was then thought to be a serious
threat by our enemies of using drugs against us. Most of what else we know about is in the Senate
Church committee report.
Senator INOUYE. Are you suggesting that it was intentionally kept away from the Congress and
the President of the United States?
Admiral TURNER. No, sir. We are only saying that we have no evidence one way or the other
as to whether the Congress was informed of this particular project. There are no records to
indicate.
Senator INOUYE. Admiral Turner, are you personally satisfied by actual investigation that this
newly discovered information was not intentionally kept away from the Senate of the United
States?
Admiral TURNER. I have no way to prove that, sir. That is my conviction from everything I
have seen of it.
Senator INOUYE. Now, we have been advised that these documents were initially discovered in
March of this year, and you were notified in July of this year, or June of this year, and the
committee was notified in July. Can you tell us why the Director of Central Intelligence was
notified 3 months after its initial discovery, why the delay?
Admiral TURNER. Yes, sir. All this started with several Freedom of Information Act requests,
and Mr. Laubinger on my left was the individual who took it upon himself to pursue these
requests with great diligence, and got permission to go to the Retired Records Center, and then
made the decision to look not only under what would be the expected subject files, but through
every file with which the branch that conducted this type of activity had any conceivable
connection.
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Very late in March, he discovered these seven boxes. He arranged to have them shipped from the
Retired Records Center to Washington, to our headquarters. They arrived in early April. He
advised his appropriate superiors, who asked him how long he thought it would take him to go
through these and screen them appropriately, clear them for Freedom of Information Act release.
There are, we originally estimated, 5,000 pages here. We now think that was an underestimation,
and it may be closer to 8,000 pages. He estimated it would take about 45 days or into the middle
of May to do that. He was told to proceed, and as he did so there was nothing uncovered in the
beginning of these 149 cases that appeared particularly startling or particularly additive to the
knowledge that had already been given to the Church committee, some details, but no major
revelations.
He and his associates proceeded with deliberateness, but not a great sense of urgency. There were
other interfering activities that came and demanded his time also. He was not able to put 100
percent of his time on it, and there did not appear to be cause for a great rush here. We were
trying to be responsive to the Freedom of Information Act request within the limits of our
manpower and our priorities.
-15In early June, however, he discovered two projects, the one related to K drugs and the one related
to the funding at the institution, and realized immediately that he had substantial new information,
and he immediately reported this to his superiors.
Two actions were taken. One was to notify the lawyers of the principal Freedom of Information
Act requestor that we would have substantial new material and that it would be forthcoming as
rapidly as possible, and the second was to start a memorandum up the chain that indicated his
belief that we should notify the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence of this discovery
because of the character at least of these two documents.
As that proceeded up from the 13th of June, at each echelon we had to go through the legal office,
the legislative liaison office and at each echelon about the same question was asked of him: Have
you gone through all of this, so that when we notify the Senate Select Committee we do not notify
half of the important revelations and not the other half? The last thing I want, Mr. Chairman, is in
any way to be on any topic, give the appearance on any topic of being recalcitrant, reluctant, or
having to have you drag things out of me, and my subordinates, much to my pleasure, had each
asked, have you really gone through these 8,000 pages enough to know that we are not going to
uncover a bombshell down at the bottom?
By late June, about the 28th, this process reached my deputy. He notified me after his review of it
on the 7th of July, which is the first I knew of it. I began reading into it. I asked the same probing
question directly. I then notified my superiors, and on the 15th delivered to you my letter letting
you know that we had this, and we have been working, many people, many hours since then, to
be sure that what we are telling you today does include all the relevant material.
Senator INOUYE. I would like to commend Mr. Laubinger for his diligence and expertise, but
was this diligence the result of the Freedom of Information Act or could this diligence have been
exercised during the Church hearings? Why was it not exercised? Admiral TURNER. There is
no question that theoretically this diligence could have been exercised at any time, and it may
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well be that the Freedom of Information Act has made us more aware of this. Would you speak
for yourself, please.
Mr. LAUBINGER. I really don't attribute it, Senator, to diligence so much as thoroughness. If
you can imagine the pressures under an organization trying to respond, which I think the CIA did
at the time of the Church committee hearings, the hallways of the floor I am on were full of boxes
from our records center. Every box that anyone thought could possibly contain anything was
called up for search. It was one of a frantic effort to comply.
When the pressure of that situation cools down, and you can start looking at things systematically,
you are apt to find things that you wouldn't under the heat of a crash program, and that is what
happened here.
Senator INOUYE. Thank you very much. Senator Kennedy?
Senator KENNEDY. Admiral Turner, this is an enormously distressing report that you give to
the American Congress and to the American people today. Granted, it happened many years ago,
but what we are
-16basically talking about is an activity which took place in the country that involved the perversion
and the corruption of many of our outstanding research centers in this country, with CIA funds,
where some of our top researchers were unwittingly involved in research sponsored by the
Agency in which they had no knowledge of the background or the support for.
Much of it was done with American citizens who were completely unknowing in terms of taking
various drugs, and there are perhaps any number of Americans who are walking around today on
the east coast or west coast who were given drugs, with all the kinds of physical and
psychological damage that can be caused. We have gone over that in very careful detail, and it is
significant and severe indeed.
I do not know what could be done in a less democratic country that would be more alien to our
own traditions than was really done in this narrow area, and as you give this report to the
committee, I would like to get some sense of your own concern about this type of activity, and
how you react, having assumed this important responsibility with the confidence of President
Crater and the overwhelming support, obviously, of the Congress, under this set of circumstances.
I did not get much of a feeling in reviewing your statement here this morning of the kind of
abhorrence to this type of past activity which I think the American people would certainly deplore
and which I believe that you do, but could you comment upon that question, and also perhaps
give us what ideas you have to insure that it cannot happen again?
Admiral TURNER. Senator Kennedy, it is totally abhorrent to me to think of using a human
being as a guinea pig and in any way jeopardizing his life and his health, no matter how great the
cause. I am not here to pass judgment on my predecessors, but I can assure you that this is totally
beyond the pale of my contemplation of activities that the CIA or any other of our intelligence
agencies should undertake.
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I am taking and have taken what I believe are adequate steps to insure that such things are not
continuing today.
Senator KENNEDY. Could you tell us a little bit about that?
Admiral TURNER. I have asked for a special report assuring me that there are no drug activities
extant, that is, drug activities that involve experimentation. Obviously, we collect intelligence
about drugs and drug use in other countries, but there are no experimentations being conducted by
the Central Intelligence Agency, and I have had a special check made because of another incident
that was uncovered some years ago about the unauthorized retention of some toxic materials at
the CIA. I have had an actual inspection made of the storage places and the certification from the
people in charge of those that there are no such chemical biological materials present in our
keeping, and I have issued express orders that that shall not be the case.
Beyond that, I have to rely in large measure on my sense of command and direction of the people
and their knowledge of the attitude I have just expressed to you in this regard.
Senator KENNEDY. I think that is very commendable.
Admiral TURNER. Thank you, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. I think it is important that the American people understand that.
-17You know, much of the research which is our area of interest that was being done by the Agency
and the whole involved sequence of activities done by the Agency, I am convinced could have
been done in a legitimate way through the research programs of the National Institutes of Mental
Health, other sponsored activities, I mean, that is some other question, but I think you went to an
awful lot of trouble, where these things could have been.
Let me ask you specifically, on the followup of MKULTRA, are there now -- I think you have
answered, but I want to get a complete answer about any experimentations that are being done on
human beings, whether it is drugs or behavioral alterations or patterns or any support, either
directly or indirectly, being provided by the Agency in terms of any experimentation on human
beings.
Admiral TURNER. There is no experimentation with drugs on human beings, witting or
unwitting, being conducted in any way.
Senator KENNEDY. All right. How bout the nondrug experimentation our Committee has seen - psychosurgery, for example, or psychological research?
Admiral TURNER. We are continually involved in what we call assessment of behavior. For
instance, we are trying to continually improve our polygraph procedures to, you know, assess
whether a person is lying or not. This does not involve any tampering with the individual body.
This involves studying records of people's behavior under different circumstances, and so n, but it
is not an experimental thing. Have I described that accurately, Al?
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Mr. BRODY. Yes.

Senator KENNEDY. Well, it is limited to those areas?
Admiral TURNER. Yes; it does not involve attempting to modify behavior. It only involves
studying behavior conditions, but not trying to actively modify it, as was one of the objectives of
MKULTRA.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, we are scarce on time, but I am interested in the other areas besides
polygraph where you are doing it. Maybe you can either respond now or submit it for the record,
if you would do that. Would you provide that for the record?
Admiral TURNER. Yes.
[The material on psychological assessments follows:]
Psychological assessments are performed as a service to officers in the operations directorate who recruit and/or
handle agents. Except for people involved in training courses, the subjects of the assessments are foreign nationals.
The assessments are generally done to determine the most successful tactic to persuade the subject to accept convert
employment by the CIA, and to make an appraisal of his reliability and truthfulness.
A majority of the work is done by a staff of trained psychologists, some of whom are stationed overseas. The
assessments they do may be either direct or indirect. Direct assessments involve a personal interview of the subject
by the psychologist. When possible the subject is asked to complete a formal "intelligence test" which is actually a
disguised psychological test. Individuals being assessed are not given drugs, nor are they subjected to physical
harassment or torture. When operating conditions are such that a face-to-face interview is not possible, the
psychologist may do an indirect assessment, using as source materials descriptions of the subject by others,
interviews with people who know him, specimens of his writings, etc.
-18The other psychological assessments involve handwriting analysis or graphological assessment. The work is done by
a pair of trained graphologists, assisted by a small number of measurement technicians. They generally require at
least a page of handwritten script by the subject. Measurements are made of about 30 different writing characteristics,
and these are charted and furnished to the graphologist for assessments.
The psychologists also give courses in psychological assessment to group of operations officers, to sharpen their own
capabilities to size up people. As part of the training course, the instructor does a psychological assessment of each
student. The students are writing participants, and results are discussed with them.
It is important to reiterate that psychological assessments are only a service to the operations officers. In the final
analysis, it is the responsibility of the operations officer to decide how a potential agent should be approached, or to
make a judgment as to whether any agent is telling the truth.
Admiral TURNER. The kind of thing we are interested in is, what will motivate a man to
become an agent of the United States in a difficult situation. We have to be familiar with that kind
of attitudinal response that we can expect from people we approach to for one reason or another
become our spies, but I will be happy to submit a very specific listing of these.
Senator KENNEDY. Would you do that for the committee?
In the followups, in the MKSEARCH, in the OFTEN, and the CHICKWIT, could you give us
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also a report on those particular programs?

Admiral TURNER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Did they involve experimentation, human experimentation?
Admiral TURNER. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. None of them?
Admiral TURNER. Let me say this, that the CHICKWIT program is the code name for the CIA
participation in what was basically a Department of Defense program. This program was
summarized and reported to the Church committee, to the Congress, and I have since they have
been rementioned in the press in the last 2 days here, I have not had time to go through and
personally review them. I have ascertained that all of the files that we had and made available
before are intact, and I have put a special order out that nobody will enter those files or in any
way touch them without my permission at this point, but they are in the Retired Records Center
outside of Washington, and they are available.
I am not prepared to give you full details on it, because I simply haven't read into that part of our
history, but in addition I would suggest when we want to get into that we should get the
Department of Defense in with us.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, you will supply that information to the Intelligence Committee, the
relevant, I mean, the health aspects, obviously, and the research we are interested in?
Senator KENNEDY. Will you let us know, Admiral Turner?
Admiral TURNER. I will be happy to.
[See p. 169 for the material referred to.]
Senator KENNEDY. Thank you. I am running out of time. Do you support the extension of the
protection of human subjects legislation to include the CIA and the DOD? You commented
favorably on that
-19before, and I am hopeful we can get that on the calendar early in September, and that is our strong
interest.
Admiral TURNER. The CIA certainly has no objection to that proposed legislation, sir. It is not
my role in the administration to be the supporter of it or the endorser of it.
Senator KENNEDY. As a personal matter, since you have reviewed these subjects, would you
comment? I know it is maybe unusual, but you can understand what we are attempting to do.
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Senator KENNEDY. From your own experience in the agency, you can understand the value of
it.
Just finally, in your own testimony now with this additional information, it seems quite apparent
to me that you can reconstruct in very careful detail this whole project in terms of the responsible
CIA officials for the program. You have so indicated in your testimony. Now with the additional
information, and the people, that have been revealed in the examination of the documents, it
seems to be pretty clear that you can track that whole program in very careful detail, and I would
hope, you know, that you would want to get to the bottom of it, as the Congress does as well. I
will come back to that in my next round. Thank you very much.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Goldwater?
Senator GOLDWATER. I have no questions.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Schweiker?
Admiral Turner, I would like to go back to your testimony on page 12, where you discuss the
contribution to the building fund of a private medical institution. You state, "Indeed, it was
mentioned in a 1957 Inspector General report on the Technical Services Division of CIA,
pertinent portions of which had been reviewed by the Church committee staff." I would like to
have you consider this question very carefully. I served as a member o the original Church
committee. My staffer did a lot of the work that you are referring to here. He made notes on the
IG's report. My question to you is, are you saying that the section that specifically delineates an
improper contribution was in fact given to the Church committee staff to see?
Admiral TURNER. The answer to your question is "Yes." The information that a contribution
had been made was made available, to the best of my knowledge.
Senator SCHWEIKER. To follow this up further, I'd like to say that I think there was a serious
flaw in the way that the IG report was handled and the Church committee was limited. I am not
making any accusations, but because of limited access to the report, we have a situ-
-20ation where it is not even clear whether we actually saw that material or not, simply because we
could not keep a copy of the report under the procedures we had to follow. We were limited by
notetaking, and so it is rather ambiguous as to just what was seen and what was not seen. I
certainly hope that the new Intelligence Committee will not be bound by procedures that restrict
its ability to exercise effective oversight.
I have a second question. Does it concern you, Admiral, that we used a subterfuge which resulted
in the use of Federal construction grant funds to finance facilities for these sorts of experiments
on our own people? Because as I understand what you are saying, while the CIA maybe only put
up $375,000, this triggered a response on the part of the Federal Government to provide on a
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good faith basis matching hospital funds at the same level. We put up more than $1 million of
matching funds, some based on an allegedly private donation which was really CIA money.
Isn't there something basically wrong with that?
Admiral TURNER. I certainly believe there is. As I stated, the General Counsel of the CIA at
that time rendered a legal opinion that this was a legal undertaking, and again I am hesitant to go
back and revisit the atmosphere, the laws, the attitudes at that time, so whether the counsel was on
good legal ground or not, I am not enough of a lawyer to be sure, but it certainly would occur to
me if it happened today as a very questionable activity.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Well, I think those of us who have worked on and amended the HillBurton Act and other hospital construction assistance laws over the years, would have a rather
different opinion on the legal intent or object of Congress in passing laws to provide hospital
construction project money. These funds weren't intended for this.
It reminds me a little bit of the shellfish toxin situation which turned up when I was on the Church
committee. The Public Health Service was used to produce a deadly poison with Public Health
money. Here we are using general hospital construction money to carry on a series of drug
experimentation.
Admiral TURNER. Excuse me, sir. If I could just be, I think, accurate, I don't think any of this
$375,000 or the matching funds were used to conduct drug experiments. They were used to build
the hospital. Now, the CIA the put more money into a foundation that was conducting research on
the CIA's behalf supposedly in that hospital, so the intent was certainly there, but the money was
not used for experimentation.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Well, I understand it was used for bricks and mortar, but the bricks
were used to build the facility where the experiments were carried on; were they not?
Admiral TURNER. We do not have positive evidence that they were. It certainly would seem
that that was the intent, but I do not want to draw inferences here -Senator SCHWEIKER. Well, why else would they give this money for the building fund if the
building was not used for a purpose that benefited the CIA program?
Admiral TURNER. I certainly draw the inference that the CIA expected to benefit from it, and
some of the wording says the General
-21Counsel's opinion was that this was legal only if the CIA was going to derive adequate benefit
from it, but, sir, there is no evidence of what benefit was derived.
Senator SCHWEIKER. There must have been some pretty good benefits at stake. The Atomic
Energy Commission was to bear a share of the cost, and when they backed out for some reason or
another, the CIA picked up part of their tab. So, at two different points there were indications that
CIA decisionmakers thought there was great benefit to be derived from whatever happened within
the brick and mortar walls of that facility.
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Admiral TURNER. You are absolutely right. I am only taking the position that I cannot
substantiate that there was benefit derived.
Senator SCHWEIKER. The agreement documents say that the CIA would have access to onesixth of the space involved in the construction of the wing, so how would you enter into an
agreement that specifically says that you will have access to and use of one-sixth of the space and
not perform something in that space? I cannot believe it was empty.
Admiral TURNER. Sir, I am not disputing you at all, but both of us are saying that the inference
is that one-sixth of the space was used, that experimentation was done, and so on, but there is no
factual evidence of what went on as a result of that payment or what went on in that hospital. It is
just missing. It is not that it didn't happen.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Admiral Turner, one other-Senator KENNEDY. Would the Senator yield on that point?
Senator SCHWEIKER. I understand that in the agency's documents on the agreement it was
explicitly stated that one-sixth of the facility would be designated for CIA use and made available
for CIA research are you familiar-Mr. BRODY. Senator, as I recall, you are right in that there is a mention of one-sixth, but any
mention at all has to do with planning. There are no subsequent reports as to what happened after
the construction took place.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Admiral Turner, I read in the New York Times that part of this series of
MKULTRA experiments involved an arrangement with the Federal Bureau of Narcotics to test
LSD surreptitiously on unwitting patrons in bars in New York and San Francisco. Some of the
subjects became violently ill and were hospitalized. I wonder if you would just briefly describe
what we were doing there and how it was carried out? I assume it was through a safe house
operation. I don't believe your statement went into much detail.
Admiral TURNER. I did mention the safe house operation in my statement, sir, and that is how
these were carried out. What we have learned from the new documentation is the location and the
dates at which the safe houses were run by the CIA and the identification of three individuals who
were associated with running those safe houses. We know something about the construction work
that was done in them because there were contracts for this. Beyond that, we are pretty much
drawing inferences as to the things that went on as to what you are saying here.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Well, the subjects were unwitting. You can infer that much, right?
Admiral TURNER. Right.
-22Senator SCHWEIKER. If you happened to be at the wrong bar at the wrong place and time, you
got it.
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Mr. BRODY. Senator, that would be -- contacts were made, as we understand it, in bars, et
cetera, and then the people may have been invited to these safe houses. There really isn't any
indication as to the fact that this took place in bars.
Admiral TURNER. We are trying to be very precise with you, sir, and not draw an inference
here. There are 6 cases of these 149 where we have enough evidence in this new documentation
to substantiate that there was unwitting testing and some of that involves these safe houses. There
are other cases where it is ambiguous as to whether the testing was witting or voluntary. There are
others where it was clearly voluntary.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Of course, after a few drinks, it is questionable whether informed
consent means anything to a person in a bar anyway.
Admiral TURNER. Well, we don't have any indication that all these cases where it is ambiguous
involved drinking of any kind. There are cases in penal institutions where it is not clear whether
the prisoner was given a choice or not. I don't know that he wasn't given a choice, but I don't
positively know that he was, and I classify that as an ambiguous incident.
Senator INOUYE. Your time is up, Senator.
Senator Huddleston?
Senator HUDDLESTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Admiral Turner, you stated in your testimony that you are convinced there was no attempt to
conceal this recently discovered documentation during the earlier searches. Did you question the
individuals connected with the earlier search before you made that judgment?
Admiral TURNER. Yes; I haven't, I don't think, questioned everybody who looked in the files or
is still on our payroll who looked in the files back in 1975, but Mr. Laubinger on my left is the
best authority on this, and I have gone over it with him in some detail.
Senator HUDDLESTON. But you have inquired, you think, sufficiently to assure yourself that
there was no intent on the part of any person to conceal these records from the previous
committee?
Admiral TURNER. I am persuaded of that both by my questioning of people and by the
circumstances and the way in which these documents were filed, by the fact which I did not and
should have mentioned in my testimony, that these were not the official files. The ones that we
have received or retrieved were copies of files that were working files that somebody had used,
and therefore were slipped into a different location, and again I say to you , sir, I can't imagine
their deliberately concealing these particular files and revealing the other things that they did
reveal in 1975. I don't see the motive for that, because these are not that damning compared with
the overall material that was provided.
Senator HUDDLESTON. Is this the kind of operation that if it were continuing now or if there
were anything similar to it, that you would feel compelled to report to the Select Committee on
Intelligence?
Admiral TURNER. Yes, sir. You mean, if I discovered that something like this were going on
without my knowledge? Yes, I would feel absolutely the requirement to --
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-23Senator HUDDLESTON. But if it were going on with your knowledge, would you report it to
the committee? I assume you would.
Admiral TURNER. Yes. Well, it would not be going on with my knowledge, but theoretically
the answer is yes, sir.
Senator HUDDLESTON. Well, then, what suggestions would you have as we devise charters
for the various intelligence agencies? What provision would you suggest to prohibit this kind of
activity from taking place? Would you suggest that it ought to be specifically outlined in a
statutory charter setting out the parameters of the permissible operation of the various agencies?
Admiral TURNER. I think that certainly is something we must consider as we look at the
legislation for charters. I am not on the face of it opposed to it. I think we would have to look at
the particular wording as we are going to have to deal with the whole charter issue as to exactly
how precise you want to be in delineating restraints and curbs on the intelligence activities.
Senator HUDDLESTON. In the case of sensitive type operations, which this certainly was,
which might be going on today, is the oversight activity of the agency more intensive now than it
was at that time?
Admiral TURNER. Much more so. I mean, I have briefed you, sir, and the committee on our
sensitive operations. We have the Intelligence Oversight Board. We have a procedure in the
National Security Council for approval of very sensitive operations. I think the amount of
spotlight focused on these activities is many, manyfold what it was in these 12 to 24 years ago.
Senator HUDDLESTON. How about the record keeping?
Admiral TURNER. Yes; I can't imagine anyone having the gall to think that he can just blithely
destroy records today with all of the attention that has come to this, and certainly we are
emphasizing that that is not the case.
Senator HUDDLESTON. Admiral, I was particularly interested in the activity that took place at
the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital at Lexington, Ky., in which a Dr. Harris Isbell conducted
experiments on people who were presumably patients there. There was a narcotics institution, I
take it, and Dr. Isbell was, according to the New York Times story, carrying on a secret series of
correspondence with an individual at the agency by the name of Ray. Have you identified who
that person is?
Admiral TURNER. Sir, I find myself in a difficult position here at a public hearing to confirm or
deny these names in view of my legal responsibilities under the Privacy Act not to disclose the
names of individuals here.
Senator HUDDLESTON. I am just asking you if you have identified the person referred to in
that article as Ray. I am not asking you who he was. I just want to know if you know who he is.
Admiral TURNER. No. I am sorry, was this W-r-a-y or R-a-y?
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Senator HUDDLESTON. It is listed in the news article as R-a-y, in quotations.

Admiral TURNER. No, sir, we have not identified him.
Senator HUDDLESTON. So you have no knowledge of whether or note is still a member of
your staff or connected with the Agency in any way. Have you attempted to identify him?
-24[Pause.]
Admiral TURNER. Senator, we have a former employee whose first name is Ray who may have
had some connection with these activities.
Senator HUDDLESTON. You suspect that but you have not verified that at this time, or at least
you are not in a position to indicate that you have verified it?
Admiral TURNER. That is correct.
Senator HUDDLESTON. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Wallop?
Senator WALLOP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Admiral Turner, not all of the -- and in no way trying to excuse you of the hideous nature of some
of these projects, but not all of the projects under MKULTRA are of a sinister or even a moral
nature. Is that a fair statement?
Admiral TURNER. That is correct.
Senator WALLOP. Looking down through some of these 17 projects not involving human
testing, aspects of the magician's art, it doesn't seem as though there is anything very sinister
about that. Studies of human behavior and sleep research, library searches. Now, those things in
their way are still of interest, are they not, to the process of intelligence gathering?
Admiral TURNER. Yes, sir. I have not tried to indicate that we either are not doing or would not
do any of the things that were involved in MKULTRA, but when it comes to the witting or
unwitting testing of people with drugs, that is certainly verboten, but there are other things.
Senator WALLOP. Even with volunteer patients? I mean, I am not trying to put you on the spot
to say whether it is going on, but I mean, it is not an uncommon thing, is it, in the prisons of the
United States for the Public Health Service to conduct various kinds of experiments with vaccines
and, say, sunburn creams? I know in Arizona they have done so.
Admiral TURNER. My understanding is, lots of that is authorized, but I am not of the opinion
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that this is not the CIA's business, and that if we need some information in that category, I would
prefer to go to the other appropriate authorities of the Government and ask them to get it for us
rather than to in any way-Senator WALLOP. Well, you know, you have library searches and attendants at the national
seminars. This is why I wanted to ask you if the bulk of these projects were in any way the kinds
of things that the Agency might not do now. A President would not have been horrified by the list
of the legitimate types of things. Isn't that probably the case?
Senator WALLOP. And if it did in fact appear in the IG report, is there any reason to suppose
that the President did not know of this project? You said there was no reason to suppose that he
did, but let me reverse that. Is there any reason to suppose that they did not?
Admiral TURNER. No.
Senator WALLOP. Well, you know, I just cannot imagine you or literally anybody undertaking
projects of the magnitude of dollars here and just not knowing about it, not informing your
superior that
-25these were going on, especially when certain items of it appear in the Inspector General's report
on budget matters.
Admiral TURNER. Well, I find it difficult when it is that far back to hypothesize what the
procedures that the Director was using in terms of informing his superiors were. It is quite a
different climate from today, and I think we do a lot more informing to day than they did back
then, but I find it very difficult to guess what the level of knowledge was.
Senator WALLOP. I am really not asking you to second-guess it, but it just seems to me that,
while the past is past, and thank goodness we are operating under different sets of circumstances,
I think it is naive for us to suppose that these things were conducted entirely without the
knowledge of the Presidents of the United States during those times. It is just the kinds of
research information that was being sought was vital to the United States, not the means, but the
information that they were trying to find.
Admiral TURNER. I am sorry. Your question is, was this vital? Did we view it as vital?
Senator WALLOP. Well, your implication at the beginning was that it was a response to the
kinds of behavior that were seen in Cardinal Mindszenty's trial and other things. I mean,
somebody must have thought that this was an important defensive reaction, if nothing else, on the
part of the United States.
Admiral TURNER. Yes, sir, I am sure they did, but again I just don't know how high that
permeated the executive branch.
Senator WALLOP. But the kinds of information are still important to you. I mean, I am not
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suggesting that anyone go back and do that kind of thing again, but I'm certain it would be of use
to you to know what was going to happen to one of your agents assuming someone had put one of
these things into his bloodstream, or tried to modify his behavior.
Admiral TURNER. Absolutely, and you know, we would be very concerned if we thought there
were things like truth serums or other things that our agents or others could be subjected to by use
or improper use of drugs by other powers against our people or agents.
Senator WALLOP. Are there? I don't ask you to name them, but are there such serums?
Admiral TURNER. I don't know of them if there are. I would have to answer that for the record,
sir.
Senator WALLOP. I would appreciate that.
[The material referred to follows.]
Next: "Truth" Drugs in Interrogation

Continue Reading CIA Director Stansfield Turner's Testimony
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1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: "Truth" Drugs in Interrogation
Page 1 of 11
Sign the Resolution

1900 | 1910 | 1920 | 1930 | 1940 | 1950 | 1960 | 1970 | 1980 | 1990
Table of Contents
"TRUTH" DRUGS IN INTERROGATION

The search for effective aids to interrogation is probably as old as man's need to obtain information from
an uncooperative source and as persistent as his impatience to shortcut any tortuous path. In the annals of
police investigation, physical coercion has at times been substituted for painstaking and time-consuming
inquiry in the belief that direct methods produce quick results. Sir James Stephens, writing in 1883,
rationalizes a grisly example of "third degree" practices by the police of India: "It is far pleasanter to sit
comfortably in the shade rubbing red pepper in a poor devil's eyes than to go about in the sun hunting up
evidence."
More recently, police officials in some countries have turned to drugs for assistance in extracting
confessions from accused persons, drugs which are presumed
-26to relax the individual's defenses to the point that he unknowingly reveals truths he has been trying to
conceal. This investigative technique, however humanitarian as an alternative to physical torture, still
raises serious questions of individual rights and liberties. In this country, where drugs have gained only
marginal acceptance in police work, their use has provoked cries of "psychological third degree" and has
precipitated medico-legal controversies that after a quarter of a century still occasionally flare into the
open.
The use of so-called "truth" drugs in police work is similar to the accepted psychiatric practice of narcoanalysis; the difference in the two procedures lies in their different objectives. The police investigator is
concerned with empirical truth that may be used against the suspect, and therefore almost solely with
probative truth: the usefulness of the suspect's revelations depends ultimately on their acceptance in
evidence by a court of law. The psychiatrist, on the other hand, using the same "truth" drugs in diagnosis
and treatment of the mentally ill, is primarily concerned with psychological truth or psychological reality
rather than empirical fact. A patient's aberrations are reality for him at the time they occur, and an accurate
account of these fantasies and delusions, rather than reliable recollection of past events, can be the key to
recovery.
The notion of drugs capable of illuminating hidden recesses of the mind, helping to heal the mentally ill
and preventing or reversing the miscarriage of justice, has provided an exceedingly durable theme for the
press and popular literature. While acknowledging that "truth serum" is a misnomer twice over -- the
drugs are not sera and they do not necessarily bring forth probative truth -- journalistic accounts continue
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to exploit the appeal of the term. The formula is to play up a few spectacular "truth" drug successes and to
imply that the drugs are more maligned than need be and more widely employed in criminal investigation
than can officially be admitted.
Any technique that promises an increment of success in extracting information from an uncompliant
source is ipso facto of interest in intelligence operations. If the ethical considerations which in Western
countries inhibit the use of narco-interrogation in police work are felt also in intelligence, the Western
services must at least be prepared against its possible employment by the adversary. An understanding of
"truth" drugs, their characteristic actions, and their potentialities, positive and negative, for eliciting useful
information is fundamental to an adequate defense against them.
This discussion, meant to help toward such an understanding, draws primarily upon openly published
materials. It has the limitations of projecting from criminal investigative practices and from the permissive
atmosphere of drug psychotherapy.
SCOPOLAMINE AS "TRUTH SERUM"
Early in this century physicians began to employ scopolamine, along with morphine and chloroform, to
induce a state of "twilight sleep" during childbirth. A constituent of henbane, scopolamine was known to
produce sedation and drowsiness, confusion and disorientation, incoordination, and amnesia for events
experienced during intoxication. Yet physicians noted that women in twilight sleep answered questions
accurately and often volunteered exceedingly candid remarks.
In 1922 it occurred to Robert House, a Dallas, Texas obstetrician, that a similar technique might be
employed in the interrogation of suspected criminals, and he arranged to interview under scopolamine two
prisoners in the Dallas county jail whose guilt seemed clearly confirmed. Under the drug, both men denied
the charges on which they were held; and both, upon trial, were found not guilty. Enthusiastic at this
success, House concluded that a patient under the influence of scopolamine "cannot create a lie... and
there is no power to think or reason." [14] His experiment and this conclusion attracted wide attention,
and the idea of a "truth" drug was thus launched upon the public consciousness.
The phrase "truth serum" is believed to have appeared first in a news report of House's experiment in the
Los Angeles Record, sometime in 1922. House resisted the term for a while but eventually came to
employ it regularly himself. He published some eleven articles on scopolamine in the years 1921-1929,
with a noticeable increase in polemical zeal as time when on. What had begun as something of a scientific
statement turned finally into a dedicated crusade by the "father of truth serum" on behalf of his offspring,
wherein he was "grossly indulgent of its wayward behavior and stubbornly proud of its minor
achievements." [11]
-27Only a handful of cases in which scopolamine was used for police interrogation came to public notice,
though there is evidence suggesting that some police forces may have used it extensively. [2,16] One
police writer claims that the threat of scopolamine interrogation has been effective in extracting
confessions from criminal suspects, who are told they will first be rendered unconscious by chloral
hydrate placed covertly in their coffee or drinking water. [16]
Because of a number of undesirable side effects, scopolamine was shortly disqualified as a "truth" drug.
Among the most disabling of the side effects are hallucinations, disturbed perception, somnolence, and
physiological phenomena such as headache, rapid heart, and blurred vision, which distract the subject
from the central purpose of the interview. Furthermore, the physical action is long, far outlasting the
psychological effects. Scopolamine continues, in some cases, to make anesthesia and surgery safer by
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drying the mouth and throat and reducing secretions that might obstruct the air passages. But the
fantastically, almost painfully, dry "desert" mouth brought on by the drug is hardly conducive to free
talking, even in a tractable subject.
THE BARBITURATES
The first suggestion that drugs might facilitate communication with emotionally disturbed patients came
quite by accident in 1916. Arthur S. Lovenhart and his associates at the University of Wisconsin,
experimenting with respiratory stimulants, were surprised when, after an injection of sodium cyanide, a
catatonic patient who had long been mute and rigid suddenly relaxed, opened his eyes, and even answered
a few questions. By the early 1930's a number of psychiatrists were experimenting with drugs as an
adjunct to established methods of therapy.
At about this time police officials, still attracted by the possibility that drugs might help in the
interrogation of suspects and witnesses, turned to a class of depressant drugs known as the barbiturates.
By 1935 Clarence W. Muehlberger, head of the Michigan Crime Detection Laboratory at East Lansing,
was using barbiturates on reluctant suspects, though police work continued to be hampered by the courts'
rejection of drug-induced confessions except in a few carefully circumscribed instances.
The barbiturates, first synthesized in 1903, are among the oldest of modern drugs and the most versatile of
all depressants. In this half-century some 2,500 have been prepared, and about two dozen of these have
won an important place in medicine. An estimated three to four billion doses of barbiturates are prescribed
by physicians in the United States each year, and they have come to be known by a variety of commercial
names and colorful slang expressions: "goofballs," Luminal, Nembutal, "red devils," "yellow jackets,"
"pink ladies," etc. Three of them which are used in narcoanalysis and have seen service as "truth" drugs
are sodium amytal (anobarbital), pentothal sodium (thiopental), and to a lesser extent seconal
(seconbarbital).
As one pharmacologist explains it, a subject coming under the influence of a barbiturate injected
intravenously goes through all the stages of progressive drunkenness, but the time scale is on the order of
minutes instead of hours. Outwardly the sedation effect is dramatic, especially if the subject is a
psychiatric patient in tension. His features slacken, his body relaxes. Some people are momentarily
excited; a few become silly and giggly. This usually passes, and most subjects fall asleep, emerging later
in disoriented semi-wakefulness.
The descent into narcosis and beyond with progressively larger doses can be divided as follows:
I. Sedative stage.
II. Unconsciousness, with exaggerated reflexes (hyperactive stage).
III. Unconsciousness, without reflex even to painful stimuli.
IV. Death.
Whether all these stages can be distinguished in any given subject depends largely on the dose and the
rapidity with which the drug is induced. In anesthesia, stages I and II may last only two or three seconds.
The first or sedative stage can be further divided:
Plane 1. No evident effect, or slightly sedative effect.
Plane 2. Cloudiness, calmness, amnesia. (Upon recovery, the subject will not remember what
happened at this or "lower" planes or stages.)
Plane 3. Slurred speech, old thought patterns disrupted, inability to integrate or learn new patterns.
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Poor coordination. Subject becomes unaware of painful stimuli.
-28Plane 3 is the psychiatric "work" stage. It may last only a few minutes, but it can be extended by further
slow injection of drug. The usual practice is to back into the sedative stage on the way to full
consciousness.
CLINICAL AND EXPERIMENTAL STUDIES
The general abhorrence in Western countries for the use of chemical agents "to make people do things
against their will" has precluded serious systematic study (at least as published openly) of the
potentialities of drugs for interrogation. Louis A. Gottschalk, surveying their use in information-seeking
interviews, [13] cites 136 references; but only two touch upon the extraction of intelligence information,
and one of these concludes merely that Russian techniques in interrogation and indoctrination are derived
from age-old police methods and do not depend on the use of drugs. On the validity of confessions
obtained with drugs, Gottschalk found only three published experimental studies that he deemed worth
reporting.
One of these reported experiments by D.P. Morris in which intravenous sodium amytal was helpful in
detecting malingerers. [12] The subjects, soldiers, were at first sullen, negativistic, and non-productive
under amytal, but as the interview proceeded they revealed the fact of and causes for their malingering.
Usually the interviews turned up a neurotic or psychotic basis for the deception.
The other two confession studies, being more relevant to the highly specialized, untouched area of drugs
in intelligence interrogation, deserve more detailed review.
Gerson and Victoroff [12] conducted amytal interviews with 17 neuropsychiatric patients, soldiers who
had charges against them, at Tilton General Hospital, Fort Dix. First they were interviewed without
amytal by a psychiatrist, who, neither ignoring nor stressing their situation as prisoners or suspects under
scrutiny, urged each of them to discuss his social and family background, his army career, and his version
of the charges pending against him.
The patients were told only a few minutes in advance that narcoanalysis would be performed. The doctor
was considerate, but positive and forthright. He indicated that they had no choice but to submit to the
procedure. Their attitudes varied from unquestioning to downright refusal.
Each patient was brought to complete narcosis and permitted to sleep. As he became semiconscious and
could be stimulated to speak, he was held in this stage with additional amytal while the questioning
proceeded. He was questioned first about innocuous matters from his background that he had discussed
before receiving the drug. Whenever possible, he was manipulated into bringing up himself the charges
pending against him before being questioned about them. If he did this in a too fully conscious state, it
proved more effective to ask him to "talk about that later" and to interpose a topic that would diminish
suspicion, delaying the interrogation on his criminal activity until he was back in the proper stage of
narcosis.
The procedure differed from therapeutic narcoanalysis in several ways: the setting, the type of patients,
and the kind of "truth" sought. Also, the subjects were kept in twilight consciousness longer than usual.
This state proved richest in yield of admissions prejudicial to the subject. In it his speech was thick,
mumbling, and disconnected, but his discretion was markedly reduced. This valuable interrogation period,
lasting only five to ten minutes at a time, could be reinduced by injecting more amytal and putting the
patient back to sleep.
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The interrogation technique varied from case to case according to the background information about the
patient, the seriousness of the charges, the patient's attitude under narcosis, and his rapport with the
doctor. Sometimes it was useful to pretend, as the patient grew more fully conscious, that he had already
confessed during the amnestic period of the interrogation, and to urge him, while his memory and sense of
self-protection were still limited, to continue to elaborate the details of what he had "already described."
When it was obvious that a subject was withholding the truth, his denials were quickly passed over and
ignored, and the key questions would be rewarded in a new approach.
Several patients revealed fantasies, fears, and delusions approaching delirium, much of which could
readily be distinguished from reality. But sometimes there was no way for the examiner to distinguish
truth from fantasy except by reference to other sources. One subject claimed to have a child that did not
exist,
-29another threatened to kill on sight a stepfather who had been dead a year, and yet another confessed to
participating in a robbery when in fact he had only purchased goods from the participants. Testimony
concerning dates and specific places was untrustworthy and often contradictory because of the patient's
loss of time-sense. His veracity in citing names and events proved questionable. Because of his confusion
about actual events and what he thought or feared had happened, the patient at times managed to conceal
the truth unintentionally.
As the subject revived, he would become aware that he was being questioned about his secrets and,
depending upon his personality, his fear of discovery, or the degree of his disillusionment with the doctor,
grow negativistic, hostile, or physically aggressive. Occasionally patients had to be forcibly restrained
during this period to prevent injury to themselves or others as the doctor continued to interrogate. Some
patients, moved by fierce and diffuse anger, the assumption that they had already been tricked into
confessing, and a still limited sense of discretion, defiantly acknowledged their guilt and challenged the
observer to "do something about it." As the excitement passed, some fell back on their original stories and
others verified the confessed material. During the follow-up interview nine of the 17 admitted the validity
of their confessions; eight repudiated their confessions and reaffirmed their earlier accounts.
With respect to the reliability of the results of such interrogation, Gerson and Victoroff conclude that
persistent, careful questioning can reduce ambiguities in drug interrogation, but cannot eliminate them
altogether.
At least one experiment has shown that subjects are capable of maintaining a lie while under the influence
of a barbiturate. Redlich and his associates at Yale [25] administered sodium amytal to nine volunteers,
students and professionals, who had previously, for purposes of the experiment, revealed shameful and
guilt-producing episodes of their past and then invented false self-protective stories to cover them. In
nearly every case the cover story retained some elements of the guilt inherent in the true story.
Under the influence of the drug, the subjects were crossexamined on their cover stories by a second
investigator. The results, though not definitive, showed that normal individuals who had good defenses
and no overt pathological traits could stick to their invented stories and refuse confession. Neurotic
individuals with strong unconscious self-punitive tendencies, on the other hand, both confessed more
easily and were inclined to substitute fantasy for the truth, confessing to offenses never actually
committed.
In recent years drug therapy has made some use of stimulants, most notably amphetamine (Benzedrine)
and its relative methamphetamine (Methadrine). These drugs, used either alone or following intravenous
barbiturates, produce an outpouring of ideas, emotions, and memories which has been of help in
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diagnosing mental disorders. The potential of stimulants in interrogation has received little attention,
unless in unpublished work. In one study of their psychiatric use Brussel et al. [7] maintain that
methedrine gives the liar no time to think or to organize his deceptions. Once the drug takes hold, they
say, an insurmountable urge to pour out speech traps the malingerer. Gottschalk, on the other hand, says
that this claim is extravagant, asserting without elaboration that the study lacked proper controls. [13] It is
evident that the combined use of barbiturates and stimulants, perhaps along with ataraxics (tranquilizers),
should be further explored.
OBSERVATIONS FROM PRACTICE
J.M. MacDonald, who as a psychiatrist for the District Courts of Denver has had extensive experience
with narcoanalysis, says that drug interrogation is of doubtful value in obtaining confessions to crimes.
Criminal suspects under the influence of barbiturates may deliberately withhold information, persist in
giving untruthful answers, or falsely confess to crimes they did not commit. The psychopathic personality,
in particular, appears to resist successfully the influence of drugs.
MacDonald tells of a criminal psychopath who, having agreed to narco-interrogation, received 1.5 grams
of sodium amytal over a period of five hours. This man feigned amnesia and gave a false account of a
murder. "He displayed little or no remorse as he (falsely) described the crime, including burial of the
body. Indeed he was very self-possessed and he appeared almost to enjoy the examination. From time to
time he would request that more amytal be injected." [21]
MacDonald concludes that a person who gives false information prior to re-
-30ceiving drugs is likely to give false information also under narcosis, that the drugs are of little value for
revealing deceptions, and that they are more effective in releasing unconsciously repressed material than
in evoking consciously suppressed information.
Another psychiatrist known for his work with criminals, L.Z. Freedman, gave sodium amytal to men
accused of various civil and military antisocial acts. The subjects were mentally unstable, their conditions
ranging from character disorders to neuroses and psychoses. The drug interviews proved psychiatrically
beneficial to the patients, but Freedman found that his view of objective reality was seldom improved by
their revelations. He was unable to say on the basis of the narco-interrogation whether a given act had or
had not occurred. Like MacDonald, he found that psychopathic individuals can deny to the point of
unconsciousness crimes that every objective sign indicates they have committed. [10]
F.G. Inbau, Professor of Law at Northwestern University, who has had considerable experience observing
and participating in "truth" drug tests, claims that they are occasionally effective on persons who would
have disclosed the truth anyway had they been properly interrogated, but that a person determined to lie
will usually be able to continue the deception under drugs.
The two military psychiatrists who made the most extensive use of narcoanalysis during the war years.
Roy R. Grinker and John C. Spiegel, concluded that in almost all cases they could obtain from their
patients essentially the same material and give them the same emotional release by therapy without the
use of drugs, provided they had sufficient time.
The essence of these comments from professionals of long experience is that drugs provide rapid access to
information that is psychiatrically useful but of doubtful validity as empirical truth. The same
psychological information and a less adulterated empirical truth can be obtained from fully conscious
subjects through non-drug psychotherapy and skillful police interrogation.
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APPLICATION TO CI INTERROGATION
The almost total absence of controlled experimental studies of "truth" drugs and the spotty and anecdotal
nature of psychiatric and police evidence require that extrapolations to intelligence operations be made
with care. Still, enough is known about the drugs' actions to suggest certain considerations affecting the
possibilities for their use in interrogation.
It should be clear from the foregoing that at best a drug can only serve as an aid to an interrogator who has
a sure understanding of the psychology and techniques of normal interrogation. In some respects, indeed,
the demands on his skill will be increased by the baffling mixture of truth and fantasy in drug-induced
output. And the tendency against which he must guard in the interrogate to give the responses that seem to
be wanted without regard for facts will be heightened by drugs: the literature abounds with warnings that
a subject in narcosis is extremely suggestible.
It seems possible that this suggestibility and the lowered guard of the narcotic state might be put to
advantage in the case of a subject feigning ignorance of a language or some other skill that had become
automatic with him. Lipton [20] found sodium amytal helpful in determining whether a foreign subject
was merely pretending not to understand English. By extension, one can guess that a drugged interrogatee
might have difficulty maintaining the pretense that he did not comprehend the idiom of a profession he
was trying to hide.
There is the further problem of hostility in the interrogator's relationship to a resistance source. The
accumulated knowledge about "truth" drug reaction has come largely from patient-physician relationships
of trust and confidence. The subject in narcoanalysis is usually motivated a priori to cooperate with the
psychiatrist, either to obtain relief from mental suffering or to contribute to a scientific study. Even in
police work, where an atmosphere of anxiety and threat may be dominant, a relationship of trust
frequently asserts itself: the drug is administered by a medical man bound by a strict code of ethics; the
suspect agreeing to undergo narcoanalysis in a desperate bid for corroboration of his testimony trusts both
drug and psychiatrist, however apprehensively; and finally, as Freedman and MacDonald have indicated,
the police psychiatrist frequently deals with a "sick" criminal, and some order of patient-physician
relationship necessarily evolves.
-31Rarely has a drug interrogation involved "normal" individuals in a hostile or genuinely threatening milieu.
It was from a non-threatening experimental setting that Eric Lindemann could say that his "normal"
subjects "reported a general sense of euphoria, ease and confidence, and they exhibited a marked increase
in talkativeness and communicability." [18] Gerson and Victoroff list poor doctor-patient rapport as one
factor interfering with the completeness and authenticity of confessions by the Fort Dix soldiers, caught as
they were in a command performance and told they had no choice but to submit to narco-interrogation.
From all indications, subject-interrogation rapport is usually crucial to obtaining the psychological release
which may lead to unguarded disclosures. Role-playing on the part of the interrogator might be a possible
solution to the problem of establishing rapport with a drugged subject. In therapy, the British narcoanalyst William Sargent recommends that the therapist deliberately distort the facts of the patient's lifeexperience to achieve heightened emotional response and abreaction. [27] In the drunken state of
narcoanalysis patients are prone to accept the therapist's false constructions. There is reason to expect that
a drugged subject would communicate freely with an interrogator playing the role of relative, colleague,
physician, immediate superior, or any other person to whom his background indicated he would be
responsive.
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Even when rapport is poor, however, there remains one facet of drug action eminently exploitable in
interrogation -- the fact that subjects emerge from narcosis feeling they have revealed a great deal, even
when they have not. As Gerson and Victoroff demonstrated at Fort Dix, this psychological set provides a
major opening for obtaining genuine confessions.
POSSIBLE VARIATIONS
In studies by Beecher and his associates, [3-6] one-third to one-half the individuals tested proved to be
placebo reactors, subjects who respond with symptomatic relief to the administration of any syringe, pill,
or capsule, regardless of what it contains. Although no studies are known to have been made of the
placebo phenomenon as applied to narco-interrogation, it seems reasonable that when a subject's sense of
guilt interferes with productive interrogation, a placebo for pseudo-narcosis could have the effect of
absolving him of the responsibility for his acts and thus clear the way for free communication. It is
notable that placebos are most likely to be effective in situations of stress. The individuals most likely to
react to placebos are the more anxious, more self-centered, more dependent on outside stimulation, those
who express their needs more freely socially, talkers who drain off anxiety by conversing with others. The
non-reactors are those clinically more rigid and with better than average emotional control. No sex or I.Q.
differences between reactors and non-reactors have been found.
Another possibility might be the combined use of drugs with hypnotic trance and post-hypnotic
suggestion: hypnosis could presumably prevent any recollection of the drug experience. Whether a subject
can be brought to trance against his will or unaware, however, is a matter of some disagreement. Orne, in
a survey of the potential uses of hypnosis in interrogation, [23] asserts that it is doubtful, despite many
apparent indications to the contrary, that trance can be induced in resistant subjects. It may be possible, he
adds, to hypnotize a subject unaware, but this would require a positive relationship with the hypnotist not
likely to be found in the interrogation setting.
In medical hypnosis, pentothal sodium is sometimes employed when only light trance has been induced
and deeper narcosis is desired. This procedure is a possibility for interrogation, but if a satisfactory level
of narcosis could be achieved through hypnotic trance there would appear to be no need for drugs.
DEFENSIVE MEASURES
There is no known way of building tolerance for a "truth" drug without creating a disabling addiction, or
of arresting the action of a barbiturate once induced. The only full safeguard against narco-interrogation is
to prevent the administration of the drug. Short of this, the best defense is to make use of the same
knowledge that suggests drugs for offensive operations: if a subject knows that on emerging from narcosis
he will have an exaggerated notion of how much he has revealed he can better resolve to deny he has said
anything.
-32The disadvantages and shortcomings of drugs in offensive operations become positive features of the
defensive posture. A subject in narco-interrogation is garbled and irrational, the amount of output
drastically diminished. Drugs disrupt established thought patterns, including the will to resist, but they do
so indiscriminately and thus also interfere with the patterns of substantive information the interrogator
seeks. Even under the conditions most favorable for the interrogator, output will be contaminated by
fantasy, distortion, and untruth.
Possibly the most effective way to arm oneself against narco-interrogation would be to undergo a "dry
run." A trial drug interrogation with output taped for playback would familiarize an individual with his
own reactions to "truth" drugs, and this familiarity would help to reduce the effects of harassment by the
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interrogator before and after the drug has been administered. From the viewpoint of the intelligence
service, the trial exposure of a particular operative to drugs might provide a rough benchmark for
assessing the kind and amount of information he would divulge in narcosis.
There may be concern over the possibility of drug addiction intentionally or accidentally induced by an
adversary service. Most drugs will cause addiction with prolonged use, and the barbiturates are no
exception. In recent studies at the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital for addicts in Lexington, Ky.,
subjects received large doses of barbiturates over a period of months. Upon removal of the drug, they
experienced acute withdrawal symptoms and behaved in every respect like chronic alcoholics.
Because their action is extremely short, however, and because there is little likelihood that they would be
administered regularly over a prolonged period, barbiturate "truth" drugs present slight risk of operational
addiction. If the adversary service were intent on creating addiction in order to exploit withdrawal, it
would have other, more rapid means of producing states as unpleasant as withdrawal symptoms.
The hallucinatory and psychotomimetic drugs such as mescaline, marihuana, LSD-25, and microtine are
sometimes mistakenly associated with narcoanalytic interrogation. These drugs distort the perception and
interpretation of the sensory input to the central nervous system and affect vision, audition, smell, the
sensation of the size of body parts and their position in space, etc. Mescaline and LSD-25 have been used
to create experimental "psychotic states," and in a minor way as aids in psychotherapy.
Since information obtained from a person in a psychotic drug state would be unrealistic, bizarre, and
extremely difficult to assess, the self-administration of LSD-25, which is effective in minute dosages,
might in special circumstances offer an operative temporary protection against interrogation. Conceivably,
on the other hand, an adversary service could use such drugs to produce anxiety or terror in medically
unsophisticated subjects unable to distinguish drug-induced psychosis from actual insanity. An
enlightened operative could not be thus frightened, however, knowing that the effect of these
hallucinogenic agents is transient in normal individuals.
Most broadly, there is evidence that drugs have least effect on well-adjusted individuals with good
defenses and good emotional control, and that anyone who can withstand the stress of competent
interrogation in the waking state can do so in narcosis. The essential resources for resistance thus appear
to lie within the individual.
CONCLUSIONS
The salient points that emerge from this discussion are the following. No such magic brew as the popular
notion of truth serum exists. The barbiturates, by disrupting defensive patterns, may sometimes be helpful
in interrogation, but even under the best conditions they will elicit an output contaminated by deception,
fantasy, garbled speech, etc. A major vulnerability they produce in the subject is a tendency to believe he
has revealed more than he has. It is possible, however, for both normal individuals and psychopaths to
resist drug interrogation; it seems likely that any individual who can withstand ordinary intensive
interrogation can hold out in narcosis. The best aid to a defense against narco-interrogation is
foreknowledge of the process and its limitations. There is an acute need for controlled experimental
studies of drug reaction, not only to depressants but also to stimulants and to combinations of depressants,
stimulants, and ataraxics.
-33-
REFERENCES
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1. Adams, E. Barbiturates. Sci. Am., Jan. 1958, 198 (1), 60-64

2. Barkham, J. Truth Drugs: The new crime solver. Coronet, Jan. 1951, 29, 72-76.
3. Beecher, H. K. Anesthesia. Sci. Am., Jan. 1957, 198, p. 70.
4. -----. Appraisal of drugs intended to alter subjective responses, symptoms. J. Amer. Med. Assn., 1955,
158, 399-401.
5. -----. Evidence for increased effectiveness of placebos with increased stress. Amer. J. Physiol., 1956,
187, 163-169.
6. -----. Experimental pharmacology and measurement of the subjective response. Science, 1953, 116.
157-162.
7. Brussel, J. A., Wilson, D. C., Jr., & Shankel, L. W. The use of methedrine in psychiatric practice.
Psychiat. Quart., 1954, 28, 381-394.
8. Delay, J. Pharmacologic explorations of the personality: narcoanalysis and "methedrine" shock. Proc.
Roy. Soc. Med., 1949, 42, 492-496.
9. deRopp, R. S. Drugs and the Mind. New York: Grove Press, Inc., 1960.
10. Freedman, L. Z. "Truth" drugs. Sci. Am., March 1960. 145-154.
11. Geis, G. In scopolamine veritas. The early history of drug-induced statements. J. of Crim. Law.,
Criminal, & Pol. Sci., Nov.-Dec. 1959, 50 (4), 347-358.
12. Gerson, M. J. & Victoroff, V. Experimental investigation into the validity of confessions obtained
under sodium amytal narcosis. J. Clin. and Exp. Psychopath., 1948, 9, 359-375.
13. Gottschalk, L. A. The use of drugs in information-seeking interviews. Technical report #2, ARDC
Study SR 177-D Contract AF 18 (600) 1797. Dec. 1958. Bureau of Social Science Research, Inc.
14. House, R. E. The use of scopolamine in criminology. Texas St. J. of Med., 1922, 18, 259.
15. Houston, F. A preliminary investigation into abreaction comparing methedrine and sodium amytal
with other methods. J. Ment. Sci., 1952, 98, 707-710.
16. Inbau, F. G. Self-incrimination. Springfield: C. C. Thomas, 1950.
17. Kidd, W. R. Police interrogation. 1940.
18. Legal dose of truth. Newsweek, Feb. 23, 1959, 28.
19. Lindemann, E. Psychological changes in normal and abnormal individuals under the influence of
sodium amytal. Amer. J. Psychiat., 1932, 11, 1083-1091.
20. Lipton, E. L. The amytal interview. A review. Amer. Practit. Digest Treatm., 1950, 1, 148-163.
21. MacDonald, J. M. Narcoanalysis and criminal law. Amer. J. Psychiat., 1954, 111, 283-288.
22. Morris, D. P. Intravenous barbiturates: an aid in the diagnosis and treatment of conversion hysteria
and malingering. Mil. Surg., 1945, 96, 509-513.
23. Orne, M. T. The potential uses of hypnosis in interrogation. An evaluation. ARDC Study SR 177-D
Contract AF 18 (600) 1797, Dec. 1958. Bureau of Social Science Research, Inc.
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24. Pelikan, E. W., & Kensler, C. J. Sedatives: Their pharmacalogy and uses. Reprint from The Medical
Clinics of North America. W. B. Saunders Company, Sept. 1958.
25. Redlich, F. C., Ravitz, L. J., & Dression, G. H. Narcoanalysis and truth. Amer. J. Psychiat., 1951, 107,
586-593.
26. Rolin, J. Police Drugs. Translated by L. J. Bendit. New York: Philosophical Library, 1956.
27. Sargant, W., & Slater, E. Physical methods of treatment in psychiatry. (3rd. ed.) Baltimore: Williams
and Wilkins, 1954.
28. Snider, R. S. Cerebellum. Sci. Am., Aug. 1958, 84.
29. Uhr, L., & Miller, L. G. (eds.). Drugs and Behavior. New York-London: John Wiley & Sons, Inc.,
1960.
Next: CIA Director Stansfield Turners Testimony, Continued

Previous: Opening Testimony of CIA Director Stansfield Turner
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1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: CIA Director Stansfield Turner's Testimony (pp. 33... Page 1 of 23
Sign the Resolution

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Table of Contents
CIA Director Stansfield Turner's Testimony

(Continued -- pp. 33-50)
Senator WALLOP. If they are, I would assume that you would still try to find from either
theirs or somebody else's information how to protect our people from that kind of activity.
Senator WALLOP. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Chafee?
Senator CHAFEE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
-34Admiral Turner, I appreciate that these tawdry activities were taking place long before your
watch, and I think you have correctly labeled them as abhorrent, but not only were they
abhorrent, it seems to me that they wee rather bungled, amateurish experiments that don't
seem to have been handled in a very scientific way, at least from the scanty evidence we
have.
It seems to me that there were a minimum of reports and the Agency didn't have the ability
to call it quits. It went on for some 12 years, as you mentioned. What I would like to get to
is, are you convinced now in your Agency that those scientific experiments, legitimate
ones that you were conducting with polygraph and so forth, were being conducted in a
scientific manner and that you are handling it in a correct manner to get the best
information that you are seeking in the end?
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Admiral TURNER. Yes, I am, and I also have a sense of confidence that we are limiting
ourselves to the areas where we need to be involved as opposed to areas where we can rely
on others.
Senator CHAFEE. I am convinced of that from your report. I just do hope that you have
people who are trained in not only handling this type of experiment, but in preparing the
proper reports and drawing the proper data from the reports. You are convinced that you
have this type of people?
Senator CHAFEE. The second point I am interested in was the final lines in your
testimony here, which I believe are very important, and that is that the Agency is doing all
it can in cooperation with other branches of the Government to go about tracking down the
identity of those who were in some way adversely affected, and see what can be done to
fulfill the government's responsibilities in that respect. I might add that I commend you in
that, and I hope you will pursue it vigorously.
A hospital in my State was involved in these proceedings, and it is unclear exactly what did
take place, so I have both a parochial interest in this and a national interest as well, and I do
hope you will press on with it. It involves not only you, I appreciate, but also HEW and
perhaps the Attorney General.
Admiral TURNER. Thank you, sir. We will.
Senator CHAFEE. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Admiral Turner, MKULTRA subproject 3 was a project involving the surreptitious
administration of LSD on unwitting persons, was it not?
Senator INOUYE. In February 1954, and this was in the very early stages of MKULTRA,
the Director of Central Intelligence wrote to the technical services staff officials criticizing
their judgment because they had participated in an experiment involving the administration
of LSD on an unwitting basis to Dr. Frank Olson, who later committed suicide. Now, the
individuals criticized were the same individuals who were responsible for subproject 3,
involving exactly the same practices. Even though these individuals were clearly aware of
the dangers of surreptitious administration and had been criticized by the Director
-35of Central Intelligence, subproject 3 was not terminated immediately after Dr. Olson's
death.
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In fact, according to documents, it continued for a number of years. Can you provide this
committee with any explanation of how such testing could have continued under these
circumstances?
Admiral TURNER. No, sir, I really can't.
Senator INOUYE. Are the individuals in technical services who carried on subproject 3
still on the CIA payroll?
Admiral TURNER. I am sorry. Are you asking, are they today?
Senator INOUYE. Yes.
Senator INOUYE. What would you do if you criticized officials of the technical services
staff and they continued to carry on experimentation for a number of years?
Admiral TURNER. I would do two things, sir. One is, I would be sure at the beginning
that I was explicit enough that they knew that I didn't want that to be continued anywhere
else, and two, if I found it being continued, I would roll some heads.
Senator INOUYE. Could you provide this committee with information as to whether the
individuals involved had their heads rolled?
Admiral TURNER. I don't believe there is any evidence they did, but I will double check
that.
[See p. 170 for material referred to.]
Senator INOUYE. As you know, Senator Huddleston and his subcommittee are deeply
involved in the drafting of charters and guidelines for the intelligence community. We will
be meeting with the President tomorrow. Our concern is, I think, a basic one. Can anything
like this occur again?
Admiral TURNER. I think it would be very, very unlikely, first, because we are all much
more conscious of these issues than we were back in the fifties, second, because we have
such thorough oversight procedures. I cannot imagine that this kind of activity could take
place today without some member of the CIA itself bypassing me, if I were authorizing
this, and writing to the Intelligence Oversight Board, and blowing the whistle on this kind
of activity.
I am also doing my very best, sir, to encourage an openness with myself and a free
communication in the Agency, so that I am the one who finds these things if they should
happen. The fact is that we must keep you and your committee and now the new committee
in the House informed of our sensitive activities. I think all of these add up to a degree of
scrutiny such that this kind of extensive and flagrant activity could not happen today
without it coming to the attention of the proper authorities to stop it.
Senator INOUYE. A sad aspect of the MKULTRA project was that it naturally involved
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the people who unwittingly or wittingly got involved in experimentation. I would

appreciate it if you would report back to this committee in 3 months on what the Agency
has done to notify these individuals and these institutions, and furthermore, to notify us as
to what steps have been taken to identify victims, and if identified, what you have done to
assist them, monetarily or otherwise.
Admiral TURNER. All right, sir. I will be happy to.
Senator GOLDWATER. Will the Senator yield?
-36Senator INOUYE. Yes, sir.

Senator GOLDWATER. I wonder if he could include in that report for our information
only a complete listing of the individuals and the experiments done on them, and whether
they were witting or unwitting, volunteer or nonvolunteer, and what has been the result in
each case. I think that would be interesting.
Admiral TURNER. Fine. Yes, sir.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Kennedy?
Senator KENNEDY. Thank you. It is your intention to notify the individuals who have
been the, subjects of the research, is that right, Admiral Turner? Do you intend to notify
those individuals?
Senator KENNEDY. If you can identify them, you intend to notify them?
Senator KENNEDY. And you intend to notify the universities or research centers as well?
Admiral TURNER. Senator, I am torn on that. I understand your opening statement. I put
myself in the position of the president of one of those, universities, let's say. If he were
witting -- if his university had been witting of this activity with us, lie has access to all that
information today. If lie, were not witting, I wonder if the. process of informing him might
put his institution's reputation in more jeopardy than letting them go on the way they are
today, not knowing. I really don't know the equities here.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, the problem is, all you have to do is pick up the newspapers
and you see these universities mentioned. In many instances, I think you are putting the
university people at an extraordinary disadvantage, where there is a complete change of
administration, and they may for one reason or another not have information that they are,
under suspicion. There is innuendo; there is rumor. I cannot help but believe that it will just
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get smeared all over the newspapers in spite of all the security steps that have been taken.
It seems to me that those universities should be entitled to that information, so that the ones
with other administrations can adapt procedures to protect those universities. The
importance of preserving the independence of our research areas and the communities
seems to me to be a very fundamental kind of question about the protection of the integrity
of our universities and our research centers.
Admiral TURNER. You are saying that you feel that if we identify them privately to
themselves, we can benefit them in an adequate way to cover the risk that this will lead to a
more public disclosure? There are lots of the 80 who have not been identified publicly at
this point.
Senator KENNEDY. I think the universities themselves should be notified. I think then
the universities can take whatever steps in terms of their setting up the procedures to
protect. their own kinds of integrity in terms of the future. I would certainly hope that, they
would feel that they could make a public comment or a public statement on it. I think it is
of general public interest, particularly for the people that are involved in those universities,
to have some kind of awareness of whether they were. used or were not used and how they
were used.
I think they are entitled to it, and quite frankly, if there is a public official or an official of
the university that you notify and be wants
-37for his own particular reasons not to have it public, I don't see why those in a lesser echelon
or lower echelon who have been effectively used by it should not have the information as
well.
So, I would hope that you would notify the universities and then also indicate to the public.
I can't conceive that this information will not be put out in the newspapers, and it puts the
university people at an extraordinary disadvantage, and of course some of it is wrong,
which is the fact of the matter, and I think some university official saying, well, it isn't so,
is a lot different than if they know it is confirmed or it is not confirmed in terms of the
Agency itself. I think that there is a responsibility there.
Admiral TURNER. I have great sympathy with what you are saying. I have already
notified one institution because the involvement was so extensive that I thought they really
needed to protect themselves, and I am. most anxious to do this in whatever way will help
all of the people who were perhaps unwitting participants in this, and the difficulty I will
have is, I can't quite do, I think, what you suggested, in that I may not be able to tell an
institution of the extent and nature of its participation.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, you can tell them to the best of your information, and it seems
to me that just because the university or an individual is going to be embarrassed is not a
reason for classifying the information. So, I would hope -- I mean, I obviously speak as an
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individual Senator, but I feel that that is an incredible disservice to the innocent individuals
and I think, a disservice to the integrity of the, universities unless they are notified, to be
able to develop procedures you are developing with regards to your own institution and we
are trying to in terms of the Congress. Certainly the universities are entitled to the same.
Admiral TURNER. Yes. Not all of these, of course, were unwitting.
Senator KENNEDY. That's right.
Admiral TURNER. Many of them were witting, and therefore they can take all those
precautionary steps on their own, but I am perfectly open to doing this. I am only interested
in doing it in a way that when identifying a university it will not lead to the public
disclosure of the individuals, whom I am not allowed to disclose, and so on.
Senator KENNEDY. That could be done, it seems to me.
Admiral TURNER. So, we will see if we can devise a way of notifying these institutions
on a private basis so that they can then make their own decision whether their equities are
best served by their announcing it publicly or their attempting to maintain it-Senator KENNEDY. Or you. I wonder. What if they were to ask you to announce, or
indicate?
Admiral TURNER. My personal conscience, sir, at this time, is that I would be doing a
disservice to these universities if I notified the public.
Senator KENNEDY. Would you meet with some university officials and ask what their
views are or whether they feel that the preservation of the integrity of the universities
would be better served or not? I think that would be useful to find out from small, large,
private, and public universities' officials how they view the integrity-Admiral TURNER. Fine. I Will phone several university presidents today who are my
friends and who are not involved in this, and ask them what they think the equities would
be.
-38Senator KENNEDY. All right. You let us know, too.

Admiral TURNER. But I am not sure that I see that there is any great benefit, in my
notifying the public as opposed to the university notifying them. Let him have his choice
whether he wants -- each institution wants to have it made public.
Senator KENNEDY. Yes. The fact would remain that the institution's credibility would be
better served if the institution's president were to deny it and the university indicated that it
did not participate in that program than if the university were to deny it and the Agency
says nothing. It seems to me that that would be the strongest, and the only way that that is
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going to be credible. I would value it if you would get some input from universities as to
what they believe is the fairest way in terms of the preservation of the integrity of the
universities.
Let me, if I could, ask on the question of the uses of these safe houses, as I understand from
information that was provided to us in the course of our last committee, the testing of
various drugs on individuals happened at all social levels, high and low, it happened on
native Americans and also on foreign nationals. That is what I understand was the nature of
the project itself.
Now, I am just wondering whether those tests were conducted at the two locations on the
east coast and the west coast which were known as safe houses. To your knowledge, is that
correct?
Senator KENNEDY. In terms of the research in this particular program, it did not go
beyond the safe houses located on the east coast and the west coast? I believe I am correct
on that.
Admiral TURNER. That type of unwitting testing of sort of randomly selected
individuals, yes.
Senator KENNEDY. It was just located in those two places?
Admiral TURNER. To the best of our knowledge, there were only two locations.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, how do we interpret randomly selected?
Admiral TURNER. Well, as opposed to prisoners in a prison who were somehow
selected.
Senator KENNEDY. All right. Do you know from this information how many people
were recruited during this period?
Admiral TURNER. No idea.
Senator KENNEDY. Do you know approximately?
Admiral TURNER. I asked that question the other day, and we just don't have -apparently we are very -- well, either there were no records kept of the actual numbers and
types of people tested or they were destroyed.
Admiral Turner, I would like to come back to the experiments which may have been
conducted at the hospital research facilities which the CIA helped to finance. It wasn't clear
to me from your previous answers what kind of work was done there. I gather you are
unclear on that, too, from your remarks, yet I find in the CIA documentation which you
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have supplied us, a list describing some of the advantages the Agency hoped to gain. It
says:
(a) One-sixth of the total space in the new hospital wing will be available to the Chemical
Division of TSS * * *; (b) Agency sponsorship of sensitive research
-39projects will be completely deniable; (c) Full professional cover will be provided for up to
three biochemical employees of the Chemical Division; (d) Human patients and volunteers for
experimental use will be available under controlled clinical conditions with the full
supervision of
and there is a blank, something has been deleted.

It seems pretty clear to me what they intended to do in that particular wing. Doesn't it to
you? Why would you go to such elaborate preparations, to buy part of the wing, bring three
of your own personnel there, give them a cover, and give them access to patients? Why
would you go to such trouble and expense to arrange, all that, if you weren't planning to
experiment on people in the hospital?
Admiral TURNER. I agree with you 100 percent, sir. Those were clearly the intentions. I
have no evidence that it was carried out in that way. I am not trying to be defensive,
Senator. I am only trying to be absolutely precise here.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Well, then, as to the nature of what was done there, the last
paragraph on the same page of the document says, "The facilities of the hospital and the
ability to conduct controlled experimentations under safe clinical conditions using
materials with which any agency connection must be completely deniable will augment
and complement other programs recently taken over by TSS, such as," and then there's
another deletion.
Now, the words following "such as" have been deleted. That is still classified, or at least it
was removed when this document was sanitized and released. It seems to be that whatever
was deleted right there would give you a pretty good clue as to what they were doing, since
it says that the activities would "augment and complement other programs" undertaken by
TSS. So, I have trouble understanding why you don't know what was contemplated. Just
the fact that similar programs are referred to in the document, though what they are is still
deleted, should enable you to check it out.
You could look at what went on in the similar programs mentioned following the "such as"
in the classified version of this document.
Admiral TURNER. Senator, I have not said that we don't know what was contemplated
being done there. We do not know what was done there.
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Senator SCHWEIKER. Why did you delete that reference? Why is that still classified,
that particular project of whatever it is?
Admiral TURNER. I don't know this particular case. We will get you the exact answer to
that one and inform you about it, but it is quite probable that that other case is unrelated to
this in the -- well, not unrelated, but that that was a project that still deserves to be
classified.
[The material referred to follows:]
Construction of the Gorman Annex was begun in 1957 and the Annex was dedicated in March
1959. Of the several MKULTRA projects conducted at Georgetown only one involving human
testing covered a time span subsequent to March 1959. Subproject 45 ran from 1955 to 1963,
thus it is possible that the final four years 1959-1963) of the subproject could have been spent
in the Gorman Annex. However, there is no reference to the Gorman Annex or a "new Annex"
in Subproject 45 papers, neither is there any mention of the subproject moving to a new
location in 1959 or later years.
Authorization to contribute CIA funds toward construction of the Gorman Annex is contained
in Subproject 35 of MKULTRA. Recently discovered material indicated that Dr. Geschickter
continued his research for sleep- and amnesia-producing drugs under Project MKSEARCH
through July 1967 at Georgetown University Hospital. But it is impossible to determine if the
facilities of the Gorman Annex were involved.
-40Senator SCHWEIKER. I think that would give us a pretty good clue as to what was
going to be done in the wing the CIA helped to finance.
Was there any indication at all in the records you found that the project ultimately used
cancer patients or terminally ill patients in connection with this facility?
Admiral TURNER. I'm sorry. I missed your question because I was trying to get the data
on the last one. I will read you the blank.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Go ahead.
Admiral TURNER. QKHILLTOP. It doesn't help you, but-Senator SCHWEIKER. Can you tell us what that is, or is it still classified?
Admiral TURNER. I don't know, and I assume from the fact that we deleted it, it is still
classified, but I will get you that answer, sir.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Thank you. I'd like to see that information.
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1977 Senate Hearing on MKULTRA: CIA Director Stansfield Turner's Testimony (pp. ... Page 10 of 23
Now my next question was: Is there any indication, Admiral, that projects in that particular
center involved experimentation on terminally ill cancer patients?
Admiral TURNER. I missed the first part of your question, sir. I am very sorry.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Do you have any indication that some experiment in the facility
used terminally ill cancer patients as subjects? You do acknowledge in your statement and
it is clear from other documents that these kinds of experiments were at some point being
done somewhere. My question is, is there any indication that cancer patients or terminally
ill patients were experimented with in this wing?
Admiral TURNER. Yes, it does appear there is a connection here, sir.
Senator SCHWEIKER. The other question I had relates to the development of something
which has been called the perfect concussion. A series of experiments toward that end were
described in the CIA documents. I wonder if you would just tell us what your
understanding of perfect concussion is.
Admiral TURNER. Is that in my testimony, sir, or in some other document?
Senator SCHWEIKER. Subproject 54, MKULTRA, which involved examination of
techniques to cause brain concussions and amnesia by using weapons or sound waves to
strike individuals without giving and without leaving any clear physical marks. Someone
dubbed it "perfect concussion" -- maybe that was poetic license on the part of our staff
rather than your poets over there. I wonder if you could just tell us what brain concussion
experiments were about?
Admiral TURNER. This project, No. 54, was canceled, and never carried out.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Well, I do believe the first year of the project in 1955 was carried
out by the Office of Naval Research, according to the information that you supplied us.
The CIA seems to have been participating in some way at that point, because the records
go on to say that the experimenter at ONR found out about CIA's role, discovered that it
was a cover, and then the project was transferred to MKULTRA in 1956. Again, this is all
from the backup material you have given us. So, it was canceled at some time. I am not
disagreeing
-41with that, but apparently for at least a year or two, somebody was investigating the
production of brain concussions with special blackjacks, sound waves, and other methods
as detailed in the backup material.
Admiral TURNER. The data available to me is that this project was never funded by the
CIA, but I will double-check that and furnish the information for the record for you as to
whether there was ever any connection here and if so, what the nature of the work was.
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Mr. Laubinger corrected his testimony regarding Subproject 54 during the September 21, 1977
hearings before the Subcommittee on Health and Scientific Research of the Human Resources
Committee. The relevant portion is reproduced below:
Mr. LAUBINGER. On project 54, it has got a rather sensational proposal in there, in terms of
the work that they propose to do, and you asked about the proposal and I said, in fact, it was
never funded under MKULTRA. Now, I overlooked -- at least, my memory did not serve me
correctly when I went through that file folder to see one memorandum dated January 10, 1956,
which makes it quite clear, as a matter of fact, that that proposal was based on prior work that
was funded by the Agency.
Senator SCHWEIKER. By what?
Mr. LAUBINGER. By the CIA. So, that information was in their file folder. It did not
happen to be in my head when I testified.
Senator SCHWEIKER. I think I might have read you that, and that is why I argued at the
time with you, because I think I had in front of me, as I recall, some indication that it was
funded there. I did read that to you. So, you did supply it to us; there is no argument about that
information.
Mr. LAUBINGER. Perhaps I am sort of headstrong, myself, and in my own view, I am
reading under the ULTRA project, that if it had been funded under ULTRA, it would have had
a project number and identified as such. The thing that threw me was that it was funded,
apparently, outside of any MKULTRA activity and it was under the normal contracting
process, so that it was not included in MKULTRA as any work done under that funding
umbrella.
The file folder that you have and I have, right here, makes it quite clear, however, that a year's
work was done through navy funding -- a navy funding mechanism -- on which the proposal
was based that ultimately came into the MKULTRA program. That second proposal was never
funded. So, there was conflict and I, personally, I think, introduced a little bit of confusion in
that in my testimony.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Well, do you agree or not agree with DOD's statement here that even
though the initial funding was navy, it was really I conduit for the CIA?
Mr. LAUBINGER. I think that is correct.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Yes; I would appreciate that. I would like to know how it went
from ONR to CIA after a year. Somebody made a decision to make that transfer, and to
make this an MKULTRA subject. There had to be some sort of review that led to a
decision to continue that kind of concussion -- total blackout, maximum amnesia, and
whatever else it was you were interested in -- study and testing.
Mr. LAUBINGER. Senator, if I may try to say a few words on that, the files that were
available to us for inspection, which are limited, indicated that there was a project being
carried on by the Navy having to do with the, effects of brain concussion. The CIA
developed an interest in that, and considered funding it, but actually never did, and as the
admiral testified, the MKULTRA is merely a funding mechanism, a place they go for
money to do such things, but there is no evidence that I know of that that project was ever
funded.
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-42Senator SCHWEIKER. Well, I am confused, because here again is another quote from a
document that we have seen, which you have released and supplied to us:
Following is the technical progress made under the current [deleted] contract: (a) Specializing
instrumentation and numerous testing techniques have been developed to obtain the desired
dynamic data; (b) considerable data has now been obtained supporting the resonancecavilation theory of brain concussion; and (c) preliminary acceleration threshold data has been
It goes on to talk about a blast range and a 2,500-square-foot laboratory. The document
notes that "Three blast test series have been run to date." It describes a special blackjack
device, "a pancake-type blackjack giving a high peak impact force with a low unit surface
pressure."
I agree the records are inconclusive as to the results of this work, but it certainly seems that
some testing was done.
Mr. LAUBINGER. Senator, you are putting us in the same position I think you were
stating that you were in earlier referring to documents not before us, but I believe you are
quoting from a proposal that someone sent to the Agency to fund this work, and he is
referring to past work. The past work would have encompassed a lot of things like that, but
CIA was not involved with that.
Senator SCHWEIKER. What do you mean, Admiral, on page 6 of your testimony when
you mention projects using magician's art? How do magicians get into the spook business?
Admiral TURNER. I have interpreted this as to how to slip the mickey into the finn, but I
would like to ask my advisers here to comment.
Mr. BRODY. I think that is essentially it, Senator. It is surreptitious administration of
material to someone, deceptive practices, how to distract someone's attention while you are
doing something else, as I understand it. It was also some type of a covert communication
project involved with the study of how magicians and their assistants perhaps communicate
information to one another without having other people know it. This is the type of thing
that was involved, sir.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Huddleston?
Admiral, in your checking these newly discovered documents and interviewing members
of the CIA staff, did you find information that would confirm the contention described by
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the reporters for the New York Times that this type of experimentation was begun out of a
fear that the Agency that foreign powers might have drugs which would allow them to alter
the behavior of American citizens or agents or members of the Armed Forces who were
taken into custody, and which would have resulted in false confessions and the like? Is my
question clear?
Admiral TURNER. Yes, sir. I haven't personally read the documentation on that. In my
discussions with the people who are well informed in this area at the Agency, I am told that
that is the case.
Senator HUDDLESTON. Was there any evidence or any indication that there were other
motives that the Agency might also be looking for drugs that could be applied for other
purposes, such as debilitating an individual or even killing another person? Was this part of
this kind of experimentation?
-43Admiral TURNER. Yes; I think there is. I have not seen in this series of documentation
evidence of desire to kill, but I think the project turned its character from a defensive to an
offensive one as it went along, and there certainly was an intention here to develop drugs
that could be of use.
Senator HUDDLESTON. The project continued for some time after it was learned that, in
fact, foreign powers did not have such a drug as was at first feared, didn't it?
Admiral TURNER. That is my understanding. Yes, sir.
Senator HUDDLESTON. Is there any indication that knowledge gained as a result of
these experiments has been useful or is being applied in any way to present operations?
Mr. BRODY. Senator, I am not sure if there is any body of knowledge. A great deal of
what there was, I gather, was destroyed in 1973. I would like to defer to Frank here. Do
you know of any?
Mr. LAUBINGER. I know of no drugs or anything like that developed under this program
that ever reached operational use or are in use today.
Senator HUDDLESTON. So apparently any information that was gathered was
apparently useless and not worth continuing, not worth further development on the part of
the Agency.
Mr. LAUBINGER. I am having difficulty hearing your questions.
Senator HUDDLESTON. I can hardly hear myself.
Admiral TURNER. I think the answer to your question is that we have no evidence of
great usefulness on this, and yet I think we should remember-U.S. Sponsored Mind Control
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Senator HUDDLESTON. Well, is it accurate to say that this experimentation produced

few useful results or had little application at all to the operations of the Agency or anybody
else as far as we know?
Admiral TURNER. I think that is basically correct. At the same time, I would point out
that we had two CIA prisoners in China and one in the Soviet Union at this time, and we
were concerned as to what kinds of things might be done to them, but I am not saying thatSenator HUDDLESTON. Have you detected any sign that any other nation is continuing
or has in the past conducted experiments similar to this or with a similar objective?
Admiral TURNER. I am not prepared to answer that one off the top of my head, sir, but I
will get it to you.
We maintain no files of up-to-date information on the testing of drugs in foreign countries.
Some years ago we occasionally would review foreign research on antibiotics and
pharmaceuticals in connection with public health and civil defense assessments. For a few
years beginning in 1949 we assessed foreign research on LSD under Project ARTICHOKE
because of concern that such drugs might be employed against Agency and other U.S.
personnel. Information relative to this work has already been provided to relevant Committees.
In this early work we also occasionally looked at foreign human experimentation; we long ago
eliminated our holdings on this subject and no collection requirements are any longer served.
As consumer interest in this area has dropped off and higher priority areas need attention, we
have virtually no present coverage with the possible exception of an occasional scanning of
the literature for a specific program. To the best of our knowledge no other unit in the
Intelligence Community is tracking this subject now.
-44Senator HUDDLESTON. You don't know whether any of your agents anywhere in the
world have been subjected to any kind of procedure like this?
Admiral TURNER. We certainly know of other powers conducting research in these
areas, yes.
Senator HUDDLESTON. Do you know how they go about that research?
Admiral TURNER. It is pretty sketchy, the information we have.
Senator HUDDLESTON. Do you know of any other organization in this country or any
institution that has conducted extensive research on unwitting individuals and through
unwitting institutions?
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Admiral TURNER. Well, I have read something in the newspapers about this, but I have
not familiarized myself with it in specifies.
Senator HUDDLESTON. It is not a normal mode of operation for hitman research, is it?
Senator WALLOP. Mr. Chairman, I only have one to follow up on Senator Huddleston's
questions and my earlier ones. You are not really saying, are you Admiral Turner, that
there are no mind-altering drugs or behavior modification procedures which have been
used by foreign powers?
Admiral TURNER. No, sir, I am not.
Senator WALLOP. I drew that inference partly in answer to my question that you knew
of no truth serum. Maybe that is a misnomer, but surely there are relaxants that make
tongues looser than they would otherwise be. Isn't that true?
Senator WALLOP. So I think it is fair to say, too, that the experience of many American
prisoners of war in the Korean conflict would indicate that there are behavior modification
procedures in use by foreign powers of a fairly advanced degree of sophistication.
Senator WALLOP. Again, I will just go back and say I think this must have been part of
the motivation. I don't think you would have mentioned Cardinal Mindszenty had you
thought his behavior was normal at the time or had anybody else. So, I would just again
say I think it is a little bit scapegoating. I don't think the object of this hearing is in any way
to lay blame on those passed or those dead or otherwise, but I think it is a little bit
scapegoating to say that it stopped with the directors of the CIA or the DCT's of the time.
Also I think it is a little bit scapegoating, to say they didn't even know it, but that it was
some lower echelon acting alone.
I think this was a behavior pattern that was prevalent in those years, and I think the object
lesson is that we have discovered, we think and we hope, through your assurances and
other activities of the Congress, means of avoiding future incidents of that kind. I thank
you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator CHAFEE. No questions.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Kennedy, I think you have another question.
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-45Senator KENNEDY. Just talking about the two safe houses on the east and west, coast as
being the sources for the unwitting trials, now, the importance of this and the magnitude of
it, I think, is of significance, because we have seen from your records that these we're used
over a period of 8 or 9 years, and the numbers could have been considerable. You are
unable to determine, at least, in your own research, what the numbers would be, and what
the drugs were, how many people were involved, but it could have been considerable
during this period of time.
It would certainly appear to me in examining the documents and the flow charts of cash
slips that were expended in these areas that it was considerable, but that is a judgmental
factor on it, but I think it is important to try and find out what the Agency is attempting to
do to get to the bottom of it.
Now, the principal agent that was involved as I understand it is deceased and has been
deceased for 2 years. The overall agent, Mr. Gottlieb, has indicated a fuzzy memory about
this whole area. He has testified before the Intelligence Committee. Yet he was responsible
for the whole program. Then, the Director had indicated the destruction of the various
materials and unfamiliarity with the project.
Now, you have indicated in your testimony today that there are two additional agents on
page 9 of your testimony, you indicated there were two additional agents which you have
uncovered at the bottom of it, and you say the names of CIA officials who approved or
monitored the various projects. You talk about the two additional agents in your testimony.
Now, I am just wondering if you intend to interview those agents to find out exactly what
is being done. I suppose, first of all, shouldn't the project manager know what was being
done?
Admiral TURNER. Our first problem, Senator, is that we have been unable to associate
an individual with those names at this point. We are still burrowing to find out who these
people are. We haven't identified them as having been CIA employees, and we don't know
whether these were false names.
Senator KENNEDY. You are tracking that down, as I understand it?
Senator KENNEDY. You are tracking that. down, and you have every intention of
interviewing those people to find out whatever you can about the program and project?
Admiral TURNER. My only hesitation here is whether I will do this or the Justice
Department.
Senator KENNEDY. It will be pursued, though, I understand?
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Senator KENNEDY. Either through the Agency or through the Justice Department?
Admiral TURNER. [Nods in the affirmative.]
Senator KENNEDY. Is it plausible that the director of the program would not understand
or know about the details of the program? Is it plausible that Dr. Gottlieb would not
understand the full range of activities in those particular safe houses?
-46Admiral TURNER. Let me say it is unlikely. I don't know Mr. Gottlieb.

Senator KENNEDY. Has anybody in the Agency talked with Mr. Gottlieb to find out
about this?
Admiral TURNER. Not since this revelation has come out.
Senator KENNEDY. Not since this revelation? Well, why not?
Admiral TURNER. He has left our employ, Senator.
Senator KENNEDY. Does that mean that anybody who leaves is, you know, covered for
lifetime?
Senator KENNEDY. Why wouldn't you talk with him and find out? You have new
information about this program. It has been a matter of considerable interest both to our
committee and to the Intelligence Committee. Why wouldn't you talk to Mr. Gottlieb?
Admiral TURNER. Well, again, I think the issue is whether this should be done by the
Justice Department or ourselves.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, are we wrestling around because you and Attorney General
Bell can't agree-Admiral TURNER. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY [continuing]. On who ought to do it?
Admiral TURNER. We are proceeding together in complete agreement as to how to go. I
have, in connection with trying to find all of these Americans or others who were
unwittingly tested, I have some considerable concern about the CIA running around this
country interviewing and interrogating people, because I don't want to give any impression
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that we are doing domestic intelligence.

Senator KENNEDY. I am just talking about one, in this case. That was the man who was
responsible for the whole program, and to find out whether anyone within the Agency
since you have had this new material has talked to Gottlieb since 1975, and if the answer is
no, I want to know why not.
Admiral TURNER. The reason he was not interviewed in connection with the 1975
hearings was that he had left the employ of the CIA and there was a concern on the part of
the Agency that it would appear to the investigators that the CIA was in some way trying to
influence him and influence his testimony before the committee. If these committees have,
no objection, we would be happy to contact Dr. Gottlieb and see if he can augment
anything here in this new information, though I don't think there is much in this new
information that be can add to as opposed to what was available in 1975.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, you see, Admiral Turner, you come to the two committees this
morning and indicate that now at last we have the information. We don't have to be
concerned about anything in the future on it. Now, I don't know how you can give those
assurances to the members of these committees as well as to the American people when
you haven't since 1975 even talked to the principal person that was in charge of the
program, and the records were destroyed. He is the fellow that was running the program,
and the Agency has not talked to him since the development of this new material.
Admiral TURNER. Our only concern here is the proprieties involved, and we will dig
into this and work with the Justice Department on
-47who, if either of us, should get into discussions with Dr. Gottlieb so as not to prejudice any
legal rights that may be involved here, or to appear in any way to be improper.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, do I understand you have not contacted the Justice Department
about this particular case since the development of this new material about Gottlieb?
Admiral TURNER. Not about Gottlieb specifically. We have contacted him.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, it is amazing to me. I mean, can you understand the difficulty
that any of us might have in terms of comprehending that when you develop a whole new
series of materials that are on the front page of every newspaper in the country and are on
every television, I mean, that means something, but it does not mean nearly as much as the
interest that we have in the fact about the testing of unwitting Americans, and every single
document that the staff reviews has Mr. Gottlieb's name on it and you come to tell us that
we don't have to worry any more, we have these other final facts, and Mr. Gottlieb has not
been talked to?
Admiral TURNER. Sir, I am not saying that these are in any way the final facts. I am
saying these are all the facts we have available.
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Senator KENNEDY. And you have not talked to the person who was in charge of the
program, so what kind of value or what kind of weight can we give it?
Admiral TURNER. We are happy to talk to him. I think the issue here again is one of
propriety and how to go about this. We have not, I believe, enough new information about
Gottlieb's participation here to signal that his interview would be that much more revealing
than what was revealed in 1975.
Senator KENNEDY. The importance of it, I think, from our point of view, is, he would
know the drugs that were administered, the volume of drugs, how it was administered, and
in terms of your ability to follow lip to protect these people and their health, to the extent
that it can be done, that opportunity is being lost.
I want to get on to some others, but will you give us the assurance that you will get ahold
of Gottlieb or that you will talk to Attorney General Bell and talk with Gottlieb?
Senator KENNEDY. And let us know as to the extent of it. I don't see how we can fulfill
our responsibility in this area on the drug testing without our hearing from Gottlieb as well,
but I think it is important that you do so, particularly since all of the materials have been
destroyed.
These other two agents, have they talked to them?
Admiral TURNER. We don't, know who they are, sir. We are trying to track down and
see whether these names can be related to anybody.
Senator KENNEDY. That is under active investigation by the Agency?
Senator KENNEDY. And you have the intention of talking to those people when you
locate them. Is that correct?
Admiral TURNER. Yes, sir, under the same circumstances as Gottlieb.
Senator KENNEDY. And you have people working on it? Admiral TURNER. Yes, sir.
-48Senator KENNEDY. With regards to the activities that took place in these safe houses, as
I understand from the records, two-way mirrors were used. Is that your understanding?
Admiral TURNER. Yes, sir. We have records that construction was done to put in twoway mirrors.
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Senator KENNEDY. And they were placed in the bedroom, as I understand.

[Pause.]
Senator KENNEDY. Well, we have documents-Admiral TURNER. I believe that was in the Church record, but I don't have the details.
Senator KENNEDY. And rather elaborate decorations were added, as I understand, at,
least, to the one in San Francisco, in the bedroom, which are French can-can dancers, floral
pictures, drapery, including installation of bedroom mirrors, three framed Toulouse Lautrec
posters with black silk mats, and a number of other -- red bedroom curtains and recording
equipment, and then a series of documents which were provided to the committee which
indicate a wide proliferation of different cash for $100, generally in the $100 range over
any period of time on the particular checks. Even the names are blocked out, as to the
person who is receiving it. Cash for undercover agents, operating expenses, drinks,
entertainment while administering, and then it is dashed out, and then the other documents,
that would suggest, at least with the signature of your principal agent out there, that "called
to the operation, midnight, and climax."
What can you tell us that it might suggest to you about what techniques were being used by
the Agency in terms of reaching that sort of broad-based group of Americans that were
being evidently enticed for testing in terms of drugs and others? Do you draw ally kind of
conclusion about what might have been going on out there, in these safe houses?
[General laughter.]
Senator KENNEDY. There is a light side to it, but there is also an enormously serious
side. And that is that, at least the techniques which are used or were used in terms of
testing, and trying to find out exactly the range of drugs used and the numbers of people
involved and exactly what that operation was about, as well as the constant reiteration of
the, use of small sums of cash at irregular intervals. A variety of different techniques were
employed but there is an awful lot of documentation putting these matters together.
When you look at the fact that, it is a broad range population that has been tested, tested in
these two areas, with the kind of cash slips that were used in this payment mechanisms and
decorations and all of the rest, we are not able to put a bottom line on it but one thing is for
sure, and that is, Gottlieb knows. That is one thing for sure, because his name appears on
just about every one of these documents, and it is, I think, very important to find out what
his understanding is of the nature of that. So, we will hear more about that.
Admiral TURNER. I believe Gottlieb has been interviewed by the Congress.
Senator KENNEDY. That's right, he has, and in reviewing the record, it is not very
satisfactory, and it just seems with the new information
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-49and the new documentation and the new memoranda -- and he did not have the checks at
that time -- and with the wide variety of different memoranda with his name on it, his
memory could be stimulated on that.
Thank you.
Senator INOUYE. I would like to thank the admiral and his staff for participating in this
hearing. I believe the record should show that this hearing was held at the request of the
Agency and the admiral. It was not held because we insisted upon it. It was a volunteer
effort on the part of the Agency. I think the record should also indicate that Admiral Turner
has forwarded to this committee a classified file, including all of the names of the
institutions and the persons involved as the experimentors.
I should also indicate that this hearing is just one step involved in the committee's
investigation of drug abuse. Just as you have had much work in going over the 8,000
pages, the staff of this committee has had equal problems, but I would like the record to
show that you have made these papers and documents available to the committee. I thank
you for that.
As part of the ongoing investigation, we had intended to call upon many dozens of others,
experimentors, or those officials in charge, and one of those will be Dr. Gottlieb.
In thanking you, I would like to say this to the American people, that what we have
experienced this morning in this committee room is not being duplicated in any other
committee room in any other part of the world. I doubt that very much. Our Agency and
our intelligence community has been under much criticism and has been subjected to much
abuse, in many cases justified, but this is the most open society that I can think of. For
example, in Great Britain there are about six people who are aware of the identity of the
man in charge of intelligence. In other countries, similar conditions exist. Here in the
United States we not only know Admiral Turner, we have had open hearings with him,
such as this. The confirmation hearings were all open.
In a few weeks, the Senate of the United States will debate a resolution to decide upon
whether we should disclose the amounts and funds being used for counterintelligence and
national intelligence. I would hope that, in presenting this issue to the public, the media
will take note that the Agency has cooperated and will continue to. The abuse that we have
learned about this morning is one I hope will never happen again, but without constant
oversight on the part of the Executive Office, on the part of the Congress, it could happen
again. It is important, therefore that we continue in this oversight activity.
So, once, again, Admiral, I thank yon very much for helping us. We will continue to call
upon you for your assistance. We would like to submit to you several questions that the
members and staff have prepared. I hope you will look them over carefully and prepare
responses for the record, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman?
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Senator INOUYE. Yes, sir?

Senator KENNEDY. I, too, want to thank Admiral Turner for his responsiveness. I have
had meetings with him in the committees and also conversations, telephone conversations,
and private meetings, and
-50I have found him personally to be extremely responsive, and it is a very difficult challenge
which lie has accepted in heading this Agency. I want you to know, personally, I, too,
would like to see this put behind us. I don't think we are quite there yet in terms of this
particular area that we are interested in. I think the Intelligence Committee has special
responsibilities in this area of the testing, so we look forward to working with you in
expediting the time that we can put it behind, but it does seem to me that we have to dig in
and finish the chapter. So, I want to personally express my appreciation to you, Admiral
Turner, and thank you for your cooperation and your help, and I look forward to working
with you.
Admiral TURNER. Thank you.
Senator HUDDLESTON. Mr. Chairman, I am not sure you emphasized this enough, but I
think the record ought to show that Admiral Turner informed the Select Committee on his
own initiative when the new documentation was found. The documentation has been made
available to us voluntarily, in a spirit of cooperation.
I think this shows a vast difference from the mode of operation that existed prior to the
formation at least of the Church committee, and a difference that is very helpful.
Senator INOUYE. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Admiral.
We would now like to call upon Mr. Philip Goldman and Mr. John Gittinger.
Mr. Goldman and Mr. Gittinger, will you please rise and take the oath.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I do.
Mr. GITTINGER. I do.
Senator INOUYE. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Goldman, will you identify yourself, and after that, Mr. Gittinger.
Senator KENNEDY. Before we start in, we had a third witness, Mr. Chairman, Mr.
Pasternac, who planned to testify, traveled to Washington -- he, lives in Washington, and
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was contacted recently --with the intention of testifying this morning. And something -- he
called us late this morning and indicated that he wanted to get a counsel before he would
wish to testify.
Senator INOUYE. Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman, will you identify yourself, sir.
Next: Testimony of Philip Goldman and John Gittinger

Previous: "Truth" Drugs in Interrogation
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Table of Contents

have.
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on others.
death.
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circumstances?
that.
of activity.
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those individuals?
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this point.
were used.
well.
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indicate?
be.

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universities.
the project itself.
correct?
on that.
individuals, yes.
selected.
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says:
supervision of

another deletion.
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classified.
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disagreeing
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information.
umbrella.
funded.
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pressure."
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question clear?
that is the case.
you know of any?
the Agency.
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will get it to you.
areas, yes.
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you, Mr. Chairman.
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done?
Department.
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about this?
lifetime?
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been talked to?
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destroyed.
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[Pause.]
[General laughter.]
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Thank you.
you for that.
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with you.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I do.
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wish to testify.

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Table of Contents

have.
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on others.
death.
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circumstances?
that.
of activity.
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those individuals?
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this point.
were used.
well.
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indicate?
be.

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universities.
the project itself.
correct?
on that.
individuals, yes.
selected.
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says:
supervision of

another deletion.
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classified.
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disagreeing
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information.
umbrella.
funded.
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pressure."
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question clear?
that is the case.
you know of any?
the Agency.
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will get it to you.
areas, yes.
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you, Mr. Chairman.
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done?
Department.
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about this?
lifetime?
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been talked to?
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destroyed.
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[Pause.]
[General laughter.]
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Thank you.
you for that.
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with you.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I do.
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wish to testify.

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Page 1 of 5
Sign the Resolution

1900 | 1910 | 1920 | 1930 | 1940 | 1950 | 1960 | 1970 | 1980 | 1990
APPENDIX B
Documents Referring To Discovery
Of Additional MKULTRA Material
[document begins]
22 June 1977
MEMORANDUM FOR: Deputy Director of Central Intelligence
THROUGH: Deputy Director for Science and Technology
1. (U/AIUO) This memorandum is to advise you that additional MKULTRA documents
have been discovered and to obtain your approval for follow-on actions required. Paragraph
7 contains a recommended course of action.
2. (U/AIUO) As a result of John Marks FOIA request (F-76-374), all of the MKULTRA
material in OTS possession was reviewed for possible release to him. Following that
review, the OTS material in the Retired Records Center was searched. It was during that
latter search that the subproject files were located among the retired records of the OTS
Budget and Fiscal Section. These files were not discovered earlier as the earlier searches
were limited to the examination of the active and retired records of those branches
considered most likely to have generated or have had access to MKULTRA documents.
Those branches included: Chemistry, Biological, Behavioral Activities, and Contracts
Management. Because Dr. Gottlieb retrieved and destroyed all the MKULTRA documents
he was able to locate, it is not surprising that the earlier search for MKULTRA documents,
directed at areas where they were most likely to be found, was unsuccessful. The purpose of
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Page 2 of 5
establishing the MKULTRA mechanism was to limit knowledge of the sensitive work being
performed to those with an absolute need to know. If those precepts had been followed, the
recently found B&F files should have contained only financial and administrative
documents. (In retrospect, I realize that

a serious error was made in not having B&F files and other seemingly innocuous files
searched earlier.) As it happened most of the individual subproject folders contain project
proposals and memoranda for the record, which in varying degrees, give a reasonably
complete picture of the avenues of research funded through MKULTRA. For your
information, the original memorandum setting up MKULTRA, signed by Mr. Dulles, is also
among these documents. A copy of the memorandum is attached.
3. (U/AIUO) At this writing, it does not appear that there is anything in these newly
located files that would indicate the MKULTRA activities were more extensive or more
controversial than indicated by the Senate Select (Church) Committee Report. If anything,
the reverse is true, i.e., most of the nearly 200 subprojects are innocuous. Thus, the
overview of MKULTRA is essentially unchanged. With two exceptions, the project find
fills in some of the missing details.
4. (U/AIUO) One of these exceptions is Subproject Number 45 which concerns an
activity that should have been reported earlier. That project deals with the search for a
knockout drug which was concomitant with, and a by-product of, cancer research at a major
university. It is believed that an objective reading of that project would demonstrate the
search for knockout materials and anesthetics were compatible activities. However, the
research proposal stated that "chemical agents... will be subjected to clinical screening... on
advanced cancer patients".
5. (C) Subproject Number 55 contains full details of CIA's contribution of $375,000 to
the [deletion] Building Fund. The Agency was then involved in drug research programs,
many of which were being conducted by [deletion] whose facilities were inadequate. In
order to facilitate the ongoing research programs, it was decided to expedite the building
program by contributing to it through a mechanism that was also being used to fund some
of the research projects.

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Page 3 of 5
The contribution could be controversial in that it was made through a mechanism making it
appear to be a private donation. Private donations qualified for, and [deletion] received, an
equal amount of Federal matching funds. A letter from the Office of General Counsel dated
21 February 1954 attesting to the legality of this funding is in the file.
6. (U/AIUO) The Legislative Counsel has been made aware of the existence of these
additional MKULTRA documents which are still under review and sanitation. The MARKS
case is in litigation and we are committed to advise Mr. Marks of the existence of these files
shortly, and to deliver the releasable material to his attorneys by 31 July. A letter from the
Information and Privacy Staff to Mr. Marks' attorneys informing them of the existence of
this material is in the coordination process and is scheduled to be mailed on 24 June.
7. (U/AIUO) There are now two actions that should be taken:
a. Release appropriately sanitized material to Mr. Marks' attorneys as required by
FOIA litigation.
b. Inform the Senate Select Committee of the existence of the recently located records
prior to informing Mr. Marks' attorneys.
It is recommended that you approve of both of these actions.
8. (U/AIUO) If additional details on the contents of this material are desired, the OIS
officers most familiar with it are prepared to brief you at your convenience.
[signature]
David S. Brandwein
Director
Office of Technical Service
[document ends]

[document begins]
The Director of Central Intelligence
The Honorable Daniel K. Inouye, Chairman
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Page 4 of 5

Dear Mr. Chairman:
During the course of 1975 when the Senate Committee, chaired by Senator Church, was
investigating intelligence activities, the CIA was asked to produce documentation on a
program of experimentation with the effect of drugs. Under this project conducted from
1953 to 1964 and known as "MK-ULTRA," tests were conducted on American citizens in
some cases without their knowledge. The CIA, after searching for such documentation,
reported that most of the documents on this matter have been destroyed. I find it my duty to
report to you now that our continuing search for drug related, as well as other documents,
has uncovered certain papers which bear on this matter. Let me hasten to add that I am
persuaded that there was no previous attempt to conceal this material in the original 1975
exploration. The material recently discovered was in the retired archives filed under
financial accounts and only uncovered by using extraordinary and extensive search efforts.
In this connection, incidentally, I have personally commended the employee whose
diligence produced this find.
Because the new material now on hand is primarily of a financial nature, it does not
present a complete picture of the field of drug experimentation activity but it does provide
more detail than was previously available to us. For example, the following types of
activities were undertaken:
a. Possible additional cases of drugs being tested on American citizens, without their
knowledge.
b. Research was undertaken on surreptitious methods of administering drugs.
c. Some of the persons chosen for experimentation were drug addicts or alcoholics.
d. Research into the development of a knockout or "K" drug was performed in
conjunction with being done to develop pain killers for advanced cancer patients, and tests
on such patients were carried out.

2
e. There is a possibility of an improper payment to a private institution.
The drug related activities described in this newly located material began almost 25 years
ago. I assure you they were discontinued over 10 years ago and do not take place today.
In keeping with the President's commitment to disclose any errors of the Intelligence
Community which are uncovered, I would like to volunteer to testify before your
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Page 5 of 5
Committee on the full details of this unfortunate series of events. I am in the process of
reading the fairly voluminous material involved and do want to be certain that I have a
complete picture when I talk with the Committee. I will be in touch with you next week to
discuss when hearings might be scheduled at the earliest opportunity.
I regret having to bring this issue to your attention, but I know that it is essential to your
oversight procedures that you be kept fully informed in a timely manner.
Yours sincerely,
[signature]
STANSFIELD TURNER
[document ends]

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UPDATED - EXCLUSIVE Transcripts of Whistleblower Testimonies As Targeted Individuals of U.S. Sponsored Mind Control and Related Hearings and Lectures, September 17, 2016

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Published by the Advanced Media Group and Stan J.

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From Covert Harassment & Surveillance,

1250 Fremont Street

EXCLUSIVE Transcripts of Whistleblower Testimonies as

3. Allstate Sworn Testimony of Stan J. Caterbone TRANSCRIPT Volume 2 and

5. Karen Stewart, NSA Whistleblower and Targeted Individual

7. 8. Stan J. Caterbone and Advanced Media Group Executive Summary

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

Freedom From Covert Harassment & Surveillance,

1250 Fremont Street

In Contravention of Conventional Wisdom

Dedicated to the courageous and kind-hearted

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

Saturday September 17, 2016

I. A university professor uncovers CIA no touch

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

II. The beginnings of CIA no touch torture and how it

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

III. What is no touch torture?

IV. An example of no touch torture

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

V. The long history of U.S. torture

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

VI. CIA Cold War neuroscience-based mind control

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

VII. CIA Cold War nonlethal weapons research

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

VIII. Why CIA no touch torture has been so successful

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

IX. All three programs are state tools for neutralizing

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

X. Mind control allegations by a Korean War POW,

Saturday September 17, 2016

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

XI. The banal and bizarre techniques of no touch

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

XII. The three key behavioral components of no touch

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

McCoy explained how CIA no touch torture changes its victims;

XIII. Torture as a kind of total theater

U.S. Sponsored Mind Control

Saturday September 17, 2016

XIV. A comparison of no touch torture to mind

Saturday September 17, 2016

XV. The phenomenology of the torture situation