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STATE BAR COURT OF CALIFORNIA

HEARING DEPARTMENT - SAN FRANCISCO

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IN MATTER OF APPLICANT

9 FOR ADMISSION

10 ZACHARY BARKER

11 COUGHLIN, ESQ.

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Case No: 06-M-13755-PEM

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Trial on Application for Admission to Practice Law

May 8, 9, 10, and 22, 2007

San Francisco, California

Judge Patrice McElroy

Also Present:

Susan I. Kagan, Esq.

Deputy Trial Counsel, State Bar of California

Zachary Barker Coughlin, Esq. Applicant

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5/8/07 Transcript:

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Judge McElroy: This is the matter of Zachary Coughlin case

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number 06-M-13755. Today's date is May 8 th , 2007. today's the first day

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of the moral character hearing. Parties, state your appearances for the

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record.

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Ms. Kagan: Morning, Your Honor, Susan Kagan appearing on

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behalf of the State Bar and the Committee of Bar Examiners.

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Mr. Coughlin: Good morning, Your Honor, Zach Coughlin

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appearing on behalf of myself.

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Judge McElroy: The court is going to proceed in the following

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manner. There's gonna be opening statements from both parties.

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Applicant is then going to present his case the applicant is initially

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going to furnish enough evidence of good moral character to establish a

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case. In this case, the applicant is going to have to furnish enough

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evidence that he has good moral character which would include

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evidence that he has addressed any alcohol abuse issues, okay? Once

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the applicant has made his showing of good moral character the State

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Bar is going to have to present evidence to rebut that good moral

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character and then the applicant is going to have to rebut the showing

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of bad moral character with proof of rehabilitation or an explanation

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for why his behavior may not indicate bad moral character. In terms of

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scheduling witnesses, how many witnesses are you gonna have, and how

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are we going to schedule them?

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Ms. Kagan: Most of my witnesses are scheduled for tomorrow okay

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and I believe there are at this point seven witnesses scheduled for

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tomorrow.

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Judge McElroy: Tomorrow we're only going until four o'clock so.

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Ms. Kagan: I don't think it's going to be a problem if anyone is not

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able to testify they can testify Thursday.

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Judge McElroy: Mr. Coughlin, how many witnesses do you have?

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Mr. Coughlin: I don't have any witnesses other than myself, if the

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court wishes to hear from me.

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Judge McElroy: Okay, well you're going to present your case first,

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so do you want to start with opening statements and you would go first

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because it's your burden. So, let's start with opening statements.

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Mr. Coughlin: Okay, should I stand up?

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Judge McElroy: Sure but whatever it is you're comfortable with.

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Mr. Coughlin: Good afternoon, Your Honor, I apologize again for

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being late. I think I should start off by addressing what would

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probably appear to you as a paucity or a lack of witnesses and things of

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that nature. I don't have any excuse for that other than to say that this

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process has kind of gone about as far as I can go with this process, and so

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I'm just here to answer any questions you might have. I think you've got

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access to a thorough description of the issues that the State Bar was

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concerned with and my attempts to address those issues and simply put

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I don't think anything I've done is so bad that it should prevent me

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from getting a license, especially when viewed in combination with the

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steps I've taken to address the concerns the State Bar has.

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Judge McElroy: Do you have an opening statement.

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Ms. Kagan: It'll be just very brief, Your Honor. As set forth in the

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pretrial statement this case is about candor and cooperation. There are

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Mr. Coughlin the evidence will show that he has an inability to be

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candid with State Bar in relation to its investigation and this

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proceeding. He, first of all, omitted things from his application and he

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failed to update his application. When he did provide updates to his

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application there are many misrepresentation made in those updates

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and he has essentially failed to cooperate with the preceding and that's

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evidenced by his deposition testimony as well as his dealings with this

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court and the State Bar and based on that the State Bar submits that

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Mr. Coughlin will be unable to prove that he has a requisite good

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character for admission.

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Judge McElroy: Mr. Coughlin, what you should do now is present

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your evidence of good moral character and because you're representing

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yourself you'll have to get up on the stand and present your evidence of

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good moral character in a narrative form. Okay, so you're gonna have

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to be sworn.

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Mr. Coughlin: Can I bring my notes with me to the stand?

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Judge McElroy: Sure.

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(The oath was administered to Mr. Coughlin.)

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Mr. Coughlin: Good afternoon, Your Honor, to present in a

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narrative form why I think I should be given a license I would start off

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by pointing to the issues that the State Bar has highlighted. To start,

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the omissions that the State Bar is pointing to are of the type that past

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case law in this state in licensing and moral character applications

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have been viewed as so minor as to not qualify as the type of omission

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that reflect adversely on candor, particularly when viewed in light of

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the fact that I reported things of a far more serious nature such as a dry

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reckless driving charge. I reported the incidents at law school to the

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State Bar. I reported my arrest in October 2001 to the State Bar and

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from the State Bar's Pre-Trial Statement some of the omissions in

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which they're taking issue with are things things like, and I'm quoting

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here: “Mr. Coughlin said he was a patent attorney he's an attorney who

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is also listed as a patent agent it's unclear whether he's a patent

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attorney”. Things of this sort which are really overly technical and

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and I'm not even sure that's an omission if you look at the record

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thoroughly. Throughout this five years of interacting with the State

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Bar I've been, if anything, extremely candid. I don't know how many

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people you have come into the State Bar informal conferences and

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bring up drinking as an issue, you know, who you don't have a DUI, and

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who never been convicted of any crime other than a dry reckless

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driving charge January 2003 and perhaps some minor speeding tickets

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along the way. Further, the State Bar has been presented with, in my

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estimate, somewhere in the range of over six hundred signatures from

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recovery based meetings. So, if the issue is recovery, you've got someone

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who came in self-reported and they went out in going to a great deal of

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meetings and present documentation as well as letters of support from

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the State Bar Nevada's Director of that bar's Lawyer's Concerned for

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Lawyers program, and attorney mentor, and several other attorney

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letters of recommendation testifying to my character specifically.

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Judge McElroy: Before we proceed, do you have a list of exhibits,

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did we get a list of exhibits from you?

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Mr. Coughlin: Other than what the State Bar submitted, no.

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Judge McElroy: All these attorney mentor letters, where are

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they?

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Mr. Coughlin: They're included within the State Bar's.

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Judge McElroy: Okay.

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Mr. Coughlin: Pretty much everything I would have submitted as

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an exhibit has been covered by State Bar's.

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Judge McElroy: So you don't have any exhibits, okay?

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Mr. Coughlin: Other than what I would be able to use out of the

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State Bar's.

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Judge McElroy: Okay, I mean what I need is evidence of good

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moral character, okay?

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Mr. Coughlin: I see, Your Honor. I would point to as evidence of

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good moral character included in that is one's attempts at

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rehabilitation as I understand the law. In addition to what would be

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contained in Exhibit 3 when I did an update to my moral character

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application which is followed by approximately 45 pages of signatures

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for AA meetings from over from early 2003 to the present day these

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were done and just voluntarily on my part, for the most part other,

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than a six-month period in which the LAP program had directed me to

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attend one meeting a days for 180 days in a row, or one recovery

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activity. But that's an hour a signature and so I think that to me

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illustrate a great deal of time and effort that's been put into this which

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I don't know if I think can really be summed up in words, but hopefully

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this number of signatures and the number of pages that have been

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submitted can make some impression. Additionally, there's a letter

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from Coe Swobe. Exhibit 40 contains letters of reference from a number

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of attorneys. I apologize, that's actually Exhibit 39.

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Ms. Kagan: Your Honor, I'm sorry, I'm going to object to any

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reference to letters of recommendation in this matter on the basis that

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the State Bar never agreed to have character witnesses by declaration

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or by letter.

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Judge McElroy: So the objection is hearsay?

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Ms. Kagan: Ha. Exactly!

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Judge McElroy: Sustained.

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Mr. Coughlin: Your Honor, if it is a trial exhibit, does that mean

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it's part of the trial and is to be considered by the court or?

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Judge McElroy: It depends on if they're admitted into evidence. I

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don't know what's going to be admitted into evidence. What I would

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suggest is that you tell the court in your own words why you think

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you're a person of good moral character. What volunteer work you've

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done. I mean just give us why you think you're a person of good moral

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character and why you should be admitted and you can refer to some of

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the exhibits. Some of them may come in, some of them may not, but that

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should have been worked out with you in terms of a declaration with

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the State Bar in terms of whether they would accept declarations from

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people that you were a person of good moral character and in general

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they accept declarations but you have to work that out ahead of time

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because otherwise it's all hearsay.

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Mr. Coughlin: I would refer to those letters and I know you

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sustained the objection so I don't know to what extent I can still refer to

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them but they are included in the State Bar's exhibits. There's a letter

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from a Reno District Court Judge John Kadlic in there. There's letters

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from attorneys that I've worked for, the Johnson Hanan firm, the

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Morishita firm.

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Ms. Kagan: Your Honor, I am going to object to this based on

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relevance.

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Judge McElroy: The problem is, it is hearsay. I mean the problem

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is these people there should have been declarations are they should

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come in here and testify. I mean, I can tell you generally in moral

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character trials, what you do is you have eight or nine witnesses come

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in and say that you're a good moral character and that you should be

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admitted and they give examples of what things that you've done that

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would indicate that you're good moral character. And you can do it I

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mean, if you don't have other witnesses, of course you can do it yourself,

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as you can start testifying as to why you believe you are a good moral

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character.

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Mr. Coughlin: Okay, well, I think I'm a good moral character

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because I've, you know, I graduated from schools, graduated from

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college, graduated from law school. I passed three bar exams and I've

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never been convicted of a crime other than a dry reckless driving

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charge. I self-reported that perhaps alcohol was an issue to the State

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Bar, which to me is presumptive evidence of good moral character. I

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don't know how many people you get to do that a year, but certainly if

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that's not looked upon as exhibiting some degree of candor or

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cooperation then I think that sets a dangerous precedent for those in

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the future who might be thinking about self-reporting or taking a look

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at their drinking. It creates a climate of distrust and fear and secrecy

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with the State Bar if you got a guy who came in never was arrested for

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anything other than it dry reckless driving charge who said to the

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State Bar, you know I think I have a problem with drinking and I'm

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taking a look at it, who then went out on his own at his own direction

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collected upwards of six hundred AA signatures from one hour a

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meetings, submitted a bunch of letters from different AA attorneys in

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Nevada and attorneys in Nevada who have been active in AA and on

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the Nevada State Bar's substance abuse chapter for years and years,

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and letters from district court judges.

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Ms. Kagan: Objection, hearsay.

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Judge McElroy: I'm gonna overrule the objection because he hasn't

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really got into details about what they've said. Do you do any type of

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volunteer work? I mean, what do you do?

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Mr. Coughlin: Well, in AA I do volunteer. I make coffee, I have

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held commitments in AA where I get up before the meeting and make

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the coffee before the meeting. I have people in my life who have started

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going to AA because I've taken them to AA meetings and they've

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started getting sober because some way I think helped that to some

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extent by taking them to a meeting. In some way I think just being

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here is a bit of a service that I'm doing because this isn't a comfortable

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situation for me and probably there's not a whole lot for me to gain out

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of this, but I believe, I have strong feelings about the way this situation

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has gone and the way my particular case has been handled and I think

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it deserves to have a look taken at it to see if perhaps there are some

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issues here that we need to be concerned with in terms of the policy

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that's set forth if this court and the bar is to look at those who self-

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report and go on to treat them in the way that my case has been treated

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and what the ramifications of that will be.

In addition, I think there's

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some issues to look at in terms of the LAP program and how it deals

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with the individuals who present with either some sort of a ADA issue

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or some sort of condition or health problem that maybe takes them out

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of the realm of their typical participant, one who maybe is just a

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garden-variety alcoholic. But, how does the LAP program treat those

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who present with ADD or who present with back pain or who present

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with diabetes or something that complicates the matter and is the LAP

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program being respectful of that person's doctor-patient relationship?

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Is it trying to commandeer that relationship? Does the LAP program

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and the State Bar discriminated against individuals who maybe I've

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had to take certain medications that the LAP program would rather

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them not be taking.

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Judge McElroy: I mean I think what you should do is address the

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issues of the honesty, fairness, trustworthiness. Those are issues that

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this court is concerned with. Present through your testimony evidence

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that you're trustworthy that there's honesty, candor those issues, okay?

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Mr. Coughlin: Well, to go back to something like in high school, I

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was an all-state basketball player three times and I was a captain of

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team, things like that, never missed a practice and developed a good

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relationship with a group of people in that way and I think was you

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know someone who was doing something to be productive with their

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life. From there I went on to college and then law school and basically

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was just a student, you know? I think something that's really

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illustrative of my candor and trustworthiness is the self reporting to

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the State Bar that I mentioned earlier in addition to the prompt

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reporting of my dry reckless arrest and of the movie theater arrest and

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of the law school paper matter. This isn't a case of someone who got

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arrested and didn't report to the State Bar. These are situations where

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I promptly reported to the bar and just this determination to face

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adversity of you know graduating from law school and passing bar

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exams and not being licensed, and going from the time I passed you

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know the Nevada Bar to get actually getting license was well over

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three and a half years. So just hanging in there trying to stay active in

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the legal community, which was not very easy I think most people who

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are trying to work it in the law who don't have a license but passed the

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bar would say that it can be difficult to find a good position in a firm

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given the economics of law practices and the state of the economy in

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those years that I'm speaking of which was roughly 2001-2004. So I

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think that illustrates a lot of character in that I stayed persistent, I

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stuck with it. I had to do something to get the Nevada bar to license me

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because from my experience they don't take that lightly at all and you

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know it took a lot to convince the powers-that-be in Nevada that I

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should get a license. I think that's something that perhaps this bar

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could consider and give some weight to especially considering that I

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was in Nevada for the better part of my life. I only lived in California

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first something around two months and so it's those in Nevada who

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have had the opportunity to observe me and make judgments about my

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fitness to practice law.

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Judge McElroy: Okay, so for the record what you need to do is

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establish because it's not on the record that your are a Nevada lawyer,

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that you have proven to the State of Nevada that you have good

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character by definition. I mean, you have to present evidence because

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I'm not hearing it now. What you, I mean I can presume your a Nevada

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lawyer because I have all the papers, but it's not in the record. You've

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got to do that, okay?

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Mr. Coughlin: Okay, well can I state under oath that I am a

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Nevada lawyer?

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Judge McElroy: Of course, that's what you're here for. I mean

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what you have to do is prove that you have good moral character and

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you have to give us proof so you have to set it up so that it's in evidence.

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Mr. Coughlin: Okay, well I am a Nevada lawyer. I also have

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passed the patent bar exam, the U.S Patent and Trademark Office's bar

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exam, and have been licensed with that office.

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Judge McElroy: Was there are moral character component in

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getting the license for Nevada? Was there moral character component

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in getting a license to be a patent attorney? These are the things we

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need to hear.

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Mr. Coughlin: Yes there was-

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Judge McElroy: Okay, so go ahead.

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Mr. Coughlin: In both cases, there was a thorough process, in both

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the Patent Bar's licensing application ,moral character application and

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in the Nevada Bar's. I was given the license as a patent agent prior to

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become an attorney in 2003, May of 2003, and I was subsequently given

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Nevada practice law March of 2005. From march of 2003, I've been

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active in Nevada bars Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers program which

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is a program affiliated with the State Bar of Nevada that is somewhat

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analogous to the LAP or The Other Bar programs that are in

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California. That's including meeting once a week with a group of

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attorneys for an hour long meeting. I've had some experience in the law.

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worked in a litigation firm and I worked in a medical malpractice

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firm and I don't know what else I might be able to say to prove that I

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have character.

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Judge McElroy: So do we have cross-examination?

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Ms. Kagan: I don't believe so, Your Honor.

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Judge McElroy: So, at this point I'm gonna make a ruling that

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you've made a prima facie case that you have good moral character and

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so now the issue is going to be the State Bar rebutting that good

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character. So, I'm gonna make a ruling that you've shown that you have

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you've made enough of the case that you have good moral character. So

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now the State Bar can present their evidence to rebut that, so you can

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step down and you can cross-examine their witnesses.

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Ms. Kagan: I'm going to call Mr. Coughlin as my first witness.

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What I'd like to do first, Mr. Coughlin, is go through all the

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applications and updates that we've submitted to the State Bar.

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Mr. Coughlin: Excuse me, do I have to be cross-examined? Is this a

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situation similar to a criminal case where one can refuse to testify?

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Judge McElroy: No, you can't refuse to take the stand.

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Q: I'd like to turn to Exhibit 1, Mr. Coughlin.

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Mr. Coughlin: I'm sorry would it be possible to use the restroom?

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Judge McElroy: Sure, so why don't we take a five-minute break so

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you can.

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Court: Back on the record.

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Q: Mr. Coughlin, please turn to Exhibit 1. Do you recognize

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Exhibit 1?

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A: Yes, I do.

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Q: How do you recognize it?

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A: My original application, moral character applications to the

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State Bar of California.

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Q: This is something that you filed with the State Bar?

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A: Yes.

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Q: Can you look at pages 1 through 25 and advise whether or not

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every single page was submitted by you to the State Bar?

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A: I believe so yes your honor I would request to move Exhibit 1

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into evidence?

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Judge McElroy: Any objection?

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A: No, Your Honor.

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Judge McElroy: Exhibit 1 is moved into evidence.

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Q: Move on to Exhibit 2. Mr. Coughlin, do you recognize Exhibit 2?

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Just to put on record Exhibit 2 is a three-page exhibit, first page is

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entitled Amendment to Application, second page is a letter on the

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letterhead of Zachary Barker Coughlin dated March 19, 2003 and page 3

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is a letter entitled Application of Zachary B. Coughlin dated February

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23 rd , 2003.

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A: The question is do I recognize Exhibit 2, and that would be

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these three pages?

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Q: Yes.

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A: I recognize the first page the second page I don't see a signature

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but it looks familiar and the third page I recognize.

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Q: Let's turn to the second page then is this a letter that you

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submitted to the State Bar?

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A: I'm not sure.

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Q: Did you write this letter, Mr. Coughlin?

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A: I think I did it would help if there's a signature on it though.

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Q: Other than the signature, do you know whether or not you

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wrote this page?

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A: I'm not sure my guess, would be that I did though.

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Q: Move to have Exhibit 2 admitted into evidence.

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Judge McElroy: Any objection?

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Mr. Coughlin: No, Your Honor.

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Judge McElroy: Exhibit 2 is admitted into evidence.

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Q: Exhibit three Mr. Coughlin. Exhibit 3 is a 38-page exhibit on

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that is on the letterhead of Zachary Coughlin dated February 15 th , 2007,

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do you recognize Exhibit 3?

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A: Yes.

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Q: How do you recognize it?

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A: As the update that I mailed to my moral character application.

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Ms. Kagan: Request to have Exhibit 3 moved into evidence?

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Judge McElroy: Objection?

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Mr. Coughlin: No.

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Judge McElroy: Exhibit 3 is admitted into evidence.

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Q: Exhibit 4 is a 22-page exhibit and the first page is entitled

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State Bar of Nevada Application for Admission 2001 data input sheet,

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do you recognize Exhibit 4.

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A: Yes, I did.

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Q: How do you recognize it?

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A: It is the application for admission to the State Bar of Nevada.

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Q: Is this something that you submitted to the State Bar of

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Nevada?

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A: Yes.

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Ms. Kagan: Request to have Exhibit 4 moved into evidence.

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Judge McElroy: Objection.

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Mr. Coughlin: No, Your Honor.

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Judge McElroy: Exhibit 4 is admitted into evidence.

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Q: Okay, let's turn to Exhibit 17, please. 17 is a five-page exhibit,

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the first page is dated January 9 th , 2003, attention Kathy Crary and the

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middle of the page says sincerely Zach Coughlin. Do you recognize

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exhibit 17?

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A: Yes, I do.

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Q: How do you recognize it?

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A: A letter from Ms. Crary to myself.

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Ms. Kagan: Request to have Exhibit 17 moved into evidence.

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Judge McElroy: Objection?

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Mr. Coughlin: No.

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Judge McElroy: Exhibit 17 is admitted into evidence.

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Q: Let's turn to Exhibit 19, a two-page exhibit and the first page is

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entitled application of Zachary B. Coughlin dated February 23, 2003.

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Do you recognize Exhibit 19?

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A: Yes, it do, it's a letter from myself to Ms. Crary.

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Ms. Kagan: Move to have Exhibit 19 moved into evidence.

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Judge McElroy: Objection.

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Mr. Coughlin: No.

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Judge McElroy: Exhibit 19 admitted into evidence.

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Q: I would like you to turn to Exhibit 20, a letter from Ms. Crary

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to Zachary Coughlin. Do you recognize Exhibit 20?

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A: Yes, I do, its a letter from Ms. Crary to myself.

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Q: Did you receive this letter?

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A: Yes, I did.

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Ms. Kagan: Request to have Exhibit 20 moved into evidence.

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Judge McElroy: Objection.

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Mr. Coughlin: No.

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Judge McElroy: Exhibit 20 is admitted.

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Q: Turn to Exhibit 21, a 15-page exhibit the first page is entitled

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amendment to application and dated March 19, 2003. Do recognize

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Exhibit 2?

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A:Yes.

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Q: How do you recognize it?

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A: Its an amendment to the application that I submitted. I don't

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see a signature on the second page, but I do recognize the police report.

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Q: Was that the end of your answer?

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A: Yes.

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Q: I request to have Exhibit 21 moved into evidence.

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Judge McElroy: Any objection.

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A: No, Your Honor.

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Judge McElroy: Exhibit 21 is admitted.

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Q: Let's move on to Exhibit 25, a two-page exhibit the first page is

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to Ms. Kathy Crary dated September 15 2003 from Zach Coughlin, the

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second page is another letter dated September 15 2003 to Ms. Kathy

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Crary from Zachary Coughlin. Do you this exhibit?

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A: I don't know it looks familiar. there's two letters that look like

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the same letter. I have pretty much a vague recollection of this.

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Q: Is this something that you submitted to the State Bar.

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A: I believe so close.

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Q: I request to have Exhibit 25 moved into evidence.

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Judge McElroy: Any objection.

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A: No, Your Honor.

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Judge McElroy: Exhibit 25 is admitted.

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Q: Exhibit 32 is a four page exhibit, the first page is on the

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letterhead of Zach Coughlin, J.D., it's dated May 31 st , 2004. Do you

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recognize Exhibit 32?

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A: Yes, I do.

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Q: And how do you recognize?

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A: I believe it's a letter I sent Ms. Crary.

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Q: I request to have Exhibit 32 moved into evidence.

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Judge McElroy: Any objection.

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A: No, Your Honor.

17

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 32 is admitted.

18

Q: Now turn to Exhibit 39, please turn to page 29, a letter on the

19

letterhead of Zach Coughlin, J.D., to Pam Poley, the second page of that

20

exhibit is the second page of the letter signed Zach Coughlin. Do you

21

recognize page 29 and 30 of exhibit 39?

22

A: Yes it's a letter to Ms. Poley from myself.

23

Q: I request to have pages 29 and 30 from Exhibit 39 moved into

24

evidence.

25

Judge McElroy: Any objection.

26

A: No, Your Honor.

27

Judge McElroy: Pages 29 and 30 from Exhibit 39 is admitted.

17/433

1

Court Personnel: Just 29 and 30, Your Honor?

2

Judge McElroy: Yes, so far.

3

Q: Please turn next to Exhibit 72, Mr. Coughlin. Please turn to

4

pages 33 through 57 of that exhibit, Page 33 entitled Mental Health is a

5

document that goes through page 57 and it's signed or it says thank you,

6

Zach Coughlin, Esq. on the last page. Do you recognize these pages of

7

this exhibit?

8

A: Yes, it's a LAP questionnaire

ms.

Q: Is this a questionnaire that you provided, filled out and

9

provided to LAP?

10

A: Yes. I request to have pages 33 to 57 of Exhibits 72 moved into

11

evidence.

12

Judge McElroy: Is there any objection?

13

Mr. Coughlin: No, Your Honor.

14

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 72, pages 33 to 57 are admitted.

15

Q: Mr. Coughlin on July 8 th , 2004, did you take part in an informal

16

conference with the Committee of Bar Examiners, and are you aware

17

that that conference was audio taped?

18

A: Yes, I was, and Yes, I am.

19

Q: Were you provided a copy of the transcript from that

20

conference from the audiotape.

21

A: Yes, I was.

22

Q: I would like you to turn to Exhibit 12, a 10-page exhibit and it's

23

entitled informal conference of July 8, 2004, Zachary Coughlin. Does

24

this exhibit accurately represent what was on the audiotape?

25

A: I believe so.

26

Q: I request to have Exhibit 12 moved into evidence.

27

Judge McElroy: Objection?

18/433

1

Mr. Coughlin: No, your honor.

2

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 12 is admitted into evidence.

3

Ms. Kagan: And I also have the audiotape of the informal

4

conference if that's necessary that's Exhibit 11.

5

Judge McElroy: Do you want it admitted?

6

Ms. Kagan: Yes, to be sure, yes I would.

7

Judge McElroy: Any objection?

8

Mr. Coughlin: No, Your Honor.

ms.

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 11 is admitted.

9

Q: Turn to Exhibit 5, a 25-page exhibit and the first page it's an

10

email from Zachariah Coughlin to Mtratos@QuirkandTratos.com. Do

11

you recognize Exhibit 5.

12

A: Yes, I do.

13

Q: How do you recognize?

14

A: As an email from myself to Professor Tratos followed by what

15

appears to be a hand written response from Professor Tratos to myself.

16

Q: I would like you to look at the entire exhibit pages 1 through 25

17

and advise whether or not these are emails between yourself and

18

Professor Tratos.

19

A: The initial email seems to be missing. the one where he asked

20

for another copy of my paper. I remember we had a long discussion

21

about that one email and is asking for another copy of the paper.

22

Q: Is that represented by page 8 of the exhibit.

23

A: Yes.

24

Q: So going back to my earlier question, do these emails represent

25

emails between yourself and Professor Tratos.

26

A: Well they they appear to be presented in some kind of

27

chronological order, however, say page 8 should be first.

19/433

1

Q: Okay, but other than the chronological order can you answer

2

the question.

3

A: Yes, they appear to be emails between Professor Tratos and

4

myself.

5

Judge McElroy: Any objection?

6

Mr. Coughlin: I object to the extent this stems from the

7

investigation done the school.

8

Judge McElroy: Okay, but what is your legal objection.

ms.

Mr. Coughlin: Privacy.

9

Judge McElroy: Overruled, Exhibit 5 is admitted into evidence.

10

Q: Exhibit 6, Mr. Coughlin, a one-page exhibit it's dated April 7 th ,

11

2006 to Zachary B. Coughlin from Janis R. Thibault.

Do you recognize

12

Exhibit 6?

13

A: Yes, I do.

14

Q: How do you recognize it?

15

A: Its a letter from Ms. Thibault.

16

Q: To you?

17

A: Yes.

18

Q: You received this letter?

19

A: I'm not sure of that.

20

Q: Request to have Exhibit 6 moved into evidence.

21

Judge McElroy: Any objection?

22

A: No, Your Honor.

23

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 6 is moved into evidence.

24

Q: Please turn to page 12 of Exhibit 7, Mr. Coughlin. Page 12 of the

25

exhibit is entitled Zach Coughlin, Esq. and appears to be a resume, do

26

you recognize page 12, do you recognize it as your resume.

27

20/433

1

A: I believe so, yes. And I'm sorry to ask again, but can I use the

2

restroom again, Your Honor?

3

Judge McElroy: Sure. Why don't we take a five minute break.

4

Q: Before we take a break, can I have Exhibit 7, page 12 moved

5

into evidence?

6

Judge McElroy: Objection?

7

A: No.

8

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 7, page 12 is moved into evidence. Let's

ms.

take a five-minute break because we're gonna go until one o'clock.

9

Court Personnel: Back on the record.

10

Q: Sorry if this is a little out of order, but move to Exhibit 8,

11

please Exhibit 8.

12

Judge McElroy: And and there's no way we could have had

13

stipulations?

14

Ms. Kagan: We tried to work on that, however, I mean if he's

15

willing to stipulate now to all the exhibits I have 74 exhibits we'd like

16

to take some time to review and if he has any objection I would be

17

happy to do it that way.

18

Judge McElroy: That might be easier, are you willing to do that,

19

just go over the exhibits and just give me a list of the ones you have

20

objections to or I don't want to put any pressure on you if you don't feel

21

like at this point you can why why don't we just proceed and because I

22

realize it's a lot for you to have to look at so why don't we just proceed.

23

Q: Exhibit 8 is a five-page exhibit it's on the letterhead of Lynn

24

Thingvold and it's from Rob Walton to Lynn Thingvold subject Zach

25

Coughlin. Do you recognize Exhibit 8.

26

A: No.

27

21/433

1

Q: Do you recognize the emails from Rob Walton at Uni-

2

shippers.com to and from then Zanvibar2@hotmail.com?

3

A: So the first email we're not talking about, the one to Ms.

4

Thingvold?

5

Q: No, I'm talking about the other ones.

6

A: They look familiar.

7

Q: And how do they look familiar.

8

A: They deal with a gentleman, Rob, who I know and involves

ms.

subject matter I am familiar with.

9

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 8 moved into evidence.

10

Judge McElroy: Objection?

11

Mr. Coughlin: No.

12

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 8 is moved into evidence.

13

Q: Let's turn to Exhibit 9, Mr. Coughlin, a one-page letter dated

14

November 21 st , 2006 to you. Do recognize Exhibit 9?

15

A: Yes, I do, it's a letter from you to myself.

16

Ms. Kagan: Request to have Exhibit 9 moved into evidence.

17

Judge McElroy: Objection?

18

Mr. Coughlin: No.

19

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 9 is moved into evidence.

20

Ms. Kagan: Exhibit 10, Mr. Coughlin, a two-page exhibit and the

21

first page is a letter January 3 rd , 2007 to you. Do you recognize Exhibit

22

10.

23

A: Yes I do.

24

Q: How do you recognize it?

25

A: It's as you describe it.

26

Q: Is this a letter you received?

27

A: I believe so.

22/433

1

Ms. Kagan: Request to have Exhibit 10 moved into evidence.

2

Judge McElroy: Objection?

3

Mr. Coughlin: No, Your Honor.

4

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 10 is admitted into evidence.

5

Q: Exhibit 24 is a one-page exhibit, a letter dated September 4,

6

2003 to Zachary Barbara Coughlin from Kathy Crary, do you recognize

7

Exhibit 24.

8

A: Yes, I do it is as you described it.

ms.

Q: Did you receive Exhibit.

9

A: Yes.

10

Ms. Kagan: Request to have Exhibit 24 moved into evidence.

11

Judge McElroy: Objection?

12

Mr. Coughlin: No.

13

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 24 is admitted.

14

Q: Exhibit 29 is a two-page exhibit the first page is a letter dated

15

May 10 th , 2004 to Kathy Crary from Jerome Fishkin, second page is a

16

report of Robert Hunter PhD. D dated May 21, 2002. Do you recognize

17

Exhibit 29?

18

A: Yes, I do, it is as you described it.

19

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 29 moved into evidence.

20

Judge McElroy: Objection?

21

Mr. Coughlin: No.

22

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 29 is moved into evidence.

23

Q: Please turn to exhibit 31, a one-page letter dated May 27 2004 to

24

Jerome Fishkin from Deborah Murphy Lawson.

Do you recognize

25

Exhibit 31.

26

A: Yes, I do.

27

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 31 moved into evidence.

23/433

1

Judge McElroy: Objection?

2

Mr. Coughlin: No.

3

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 31 is moved into evidence.

4

Q: Exhibit 37, Mr. Coughlin is a three-page exhibit the first page

5

is a letter dated July 13, 2004 to Jerome Fishkin from Deborah Lawson

6

and third page of the exhibit is a stipulation pursuant to Rule 10

7

section 4. Do you recognize Exhibit 37.

8

A: Yes, I do.

ms.

Q: How do you recognize it?

9

A: It is as you described.

10

Ms. Kagan: I Request that Exhibit 37 be moved into evidence.

11

Judge McElroy: Objection?

12

Mr. Coughlin: No.

13

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 37 is moved into evidence.

14

Q: Exhibit 38, a two-page exhibit the first page is dated July 22 nd ,

15

2004 to Deborah Murphy Lawson from Jerome Fishkin, the second page

16

of the exhibit is a stipulation pursuant to Rule 10 section 4 signed by

17

Zachary Coughlin on 7/19/04. Do you recognize Exhibit 38.

18

A: Yes, I do.

19

Q: How do you recognize it?

20

A: It is as you described.

21

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 38 moved into evidence.

22

Judge McElroy: Objection?

23

Mr. Coughlin: No.

24

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 38 is moved into evidence.

25

Q: I'd like to go back to Exhibit 39, I'd like you to review pages 1 to

26

28 of Exhibit 39, Page 1is the letter dated January 12, 2005 to Deborah

27

24/433

1

Murphy Lawson from Jerome Fishkin with enclosures. Do you

2

recognize Exhibit 39 pages 1 to 28?

3

A: Yes, I do.

4

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 39, pages 1 to 28 moved into

5

evidence.

6

Judge McElroy: Objection?

7

Mr. Coughlin: No.

8

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 39 pages 1 to 28 is moved into evidence.

ms.

Okay, so is that all of Exhibit 39?

9

Ms. Kagan: No, its not, its just pages 1 to 30.

10

Mr. Coughlin: Your Honor, can I request to have the rest of the

11

exhibit admitted into evidence?

12

Judge McElroy: Any objection

13

Ms. Kagan: I object on the basis of hearsay.

14

Judge McElroy: Let's see, Exhibit 39, what I'm going to do right

15

now is not make a ruling at all and at the end determine whether it

16

should come in or not so right now we have Exhibit 39 pages 1 to 30

17

coming in. I'm not gonna do on your request as of yet.

18

Q: Exhibit 40 is a four-page exhibit the first page is a letter to

19

Deborah Lawson dated January 27 th , 2005 from Fishkin and the exhibit

20

contains two reports of Oliver Ocskay, PhD. D, dated December 11 th ,

21

2004 and August 16th 2004. Do you recognize this exhibit?

22

A: Yes I do, it is as you describe it.

23

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 40 moved into evidence.

24

Judge McElroy: Objection?

25

Mr. Coughlin: No.

26

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 40 is moved into evidence.

27

25/433

1

Q: Exhibit 41 is a one-page exhibit, it's a letter dated February

2

10 th , 2005 to Jerome Fishkin from Kathy Crary. Do you recognize this

3

exhibit?

4

A: Yes I do.

5

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 41 moved into evidence.

6

Judge McElroy: Objection?

7

Mr. Coughlin: No.

8

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 41 is moved into evidence.

ms.

Q: Please turn to Exhibit 44, a five-page exhibit the first page of

9

the exhibit is a letter dated April 15, 2005 to Deborah Lawson from

10

Jerome Fishkin and pages three through five of the exhibit is the order

11

admitting applicant to the State Bar Nevada. Do you recognize this

12

exhibit.

13

A: Yes.

14

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 44 moved into evidence.

15

Judge McElroy: Objection?

16

Mr. Coughlin: No.

17

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 44 is moved into evidence.

18

Q: Exhibit 47, a four-page exhibit and the first page is a letter

19

dated May 12 th , 2005 to Debra Murphy Lawson from Jerome Fishkin,

20

and page 3 is the Supreme Court of the State of Nevada, Certificate of

21

Zachary B. Coughlin, Page 4 is a letter dated April 6 th , 2005 regarding

22

the admission of Zachary B. Coughlin to the State Bar of Nevada. Do

23

you recognize this exhibit?

24

A: Yes.

25

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 47 moved into evidence.

26

Judge McElroy: Objection?

27

Mr. Coughlin: No.

26/433

1

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 47 is moved into evidence.

2

Q: Exhibit 49 please Mr. Coughlin, which is a one-page exhibit

3

entitled Authorization for Disclosure and Release of Information

4

signed by Zachary Coughlin 6/24/05. Do you recognize this exhibit?

5

A: Yes I do.

6

Q: How do you recognize?

7

A: It's as you describe it.

8

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 49 moved into evidence.

ms.

Judge McElroy: Objection?

9

Mr. Coughlin: No.

10

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 49 is admitted into evidence.

11

Q: Exhibit 50 is a one-page exhibit entitled Lawyer's Assistance

12

Program Notification of Enrollment. Do you recognize Exhibit 50?

13

A: No.

14

Q: Okay, let's move on. Exhibit 53, is a one-page exhibit dated

15

November 27 th , 2001 to Mr. Zachary Coughlin from Philip Burns,

16

Student Judicial Affairs Officer for UNLV. Do you recognize Exhibit

17

53?

18

A: Yes. It is as you described it.

19

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 53 moved into evidence.

20

Judge McElroy: Objection?

21

Mr. Coughlin: No.

22

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 53 is admitted into evidence.

23

Q: Exhibit 54, Mr. Coughlin, a four-page exhibit the first page of

24

the exhibit is dated May 26 th , 2006 to Deborah Murphy Lawson from

25

Jerome Fishkin. Page 2 is a report of Alan Wong, M.D., page 3 is report

26

of Mujahid Rasul, M.D. and page four is a report of Oliver Ocskay, PhD.

27

D. Do you recognize Exhibit 54?

27/433

1

A: Yes, it is as you describe it.

2

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 54 moved into evidence.

3

Judge McElroy: Objection?

4

Mr. Coughlin: No.

5

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 54 is admitted into evidence.

6

Q: Turn to Exhibit 55, a two-page exhibit dated June 6 th , 2006 to

7

Jerome Fishkin from Deborah Lawson. Do you recognize Exhibit 55?

8

A: Yes I do.

ms.

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 55 moved into evidence.

9

Judge McElroy: Objection?

10

Mr. Coughlin: No.

11

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 55 is admitted into evidence.

12

Q: Exhibit 59 is a six-page exhibit first page is a letter dated

13

September 27 th , 2001 to Zachary Coughlin from Christine Smith,

14

Associate Dean of Administration and Student Affairs at UNLV. Do

15

you recognize this exhibit?

16

A: Yes.

17

Q: How do you recognize it?

18

A: The entire exhibit?

19

Q: Yes.

20

A: Its a letter to me from Christine Smith followed by an email

21

from her, followed by an email from me to her.

22

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 59 moved into evidence.

23

Judge McElroy: Objection?

24

Mr. Coughlin: No.

25

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 59 is admitted into evidence.

26

27

28/433

1

Q: Exhibit 71 is a six-page exhibit, page two starts a report of

2

Douglas M. Tucker, M.D. Request to have Exhibit 71 moved into

3

evidence.

4

Judge McElroy: Objection?

5

Mr. Coughlin: I object because I haven't seen this report.

6

Judge McElroy: So is the objection hearsay or what?

7

Mr. Coughlin: I object because it is hearsay.

8

Judge McElroy: Sustained. At this point will not let it in until

ms.

there's a foundation.

9

Q: Exhibit 13 is the reporters transcript of proceedings from

10

March 1 st , 2002 in the case In Re matter of Zachary B. Coughlin

11

Committee of Moral Character and Fitness, State Bar of Nevada. Do

12

you recognize this exhibit?

13

A: Yes.

14

Q: Was this transcript of the hearing that you participated in

15

with the State Bar Nevada.

16

A: Yeah.

17

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 13 moved into evidence.

18

Judge McElroy: Objection?

19

Mr. Coughlin: Hearsay.

20

Judge McElroy: Okay I'm going to sustain it on that I think what

21

you have to do is bring in specific parts that you want in because not all

22

of it can come in but most of it can probably come in under other.

23

Q: Exhibit 15 is 118 page exhibit these were documents that were

24

provided by the State Bar Nevada in relation to Mr. Coughlin's matter

25

before that Committee. I would request to have pages 1 through 106 and

26

113 through 117 admitted into evidence

Judge McElroy: Any

27

objection.

29/433

1

Mr. Coughlin: Hearsay.

2

Ms. Kagan: I will limit that to just page 29, just the affidavit.

3

Judge McElroy: Objection?

4

Mr. Coughlin: No.

5

Judge McElroy: Page 29 is admitted as to Exhibit 15.

6

Q: Exhibit 60 is a 27-page exhibit and the first page is entitled in

7

small claims court of Reno Township, County of Washoe, State of

8

Nevada. Do you recognize Exhibit 60.

ms.

A: No.

9

Ms. Kagan: I request that the court takes judicial notice of

10

Exhibit 60 it's a certified court record of Washoe County case number

11

RSC 2005-000301.

12

Judge McElroy: Is their an objection?

13

Mr. Coughlin: Hearsay.

14

Judge McElroy: I'm going to take judicial notice of the fact that

15

there is a small claims court of Reno Township. So it's judicially noticed

16

and that would be Exhibit 60 judicially noticed.

17

Q: Turn to Exhibit 61, Mr. Coughlin. Do you recognize Exhibit 61

18

it is three five page exhibit, first pages entitled application for

19

registration to practice before the United States Patent and Trademark

20

Office. You do recognize this exhibit?

21

A: Yes.

22

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 61 moved into evidence.

23

Judge McElroy: Objection?

24

Mr. Coughlin: No.

25

Judge McElroy: Exhibit 61 is admitted into evidence.

26

Mr. Coughlin: Your Honor, I'm sorry to ask again, but can I use

27

the restroom.

30/433

1

Judge McElroy: We'll take a five minute.

2

Q: Request to have Exhibit 67 moved into evidence?

3

Judge McElroy: This is a certified copy. The court will take

4

judicial notice of Exhibit 67.

5

Q: Exhibit 68 is a two-page exhibit certified copy of the toxicology

6

report in relation to Zachary Coughlin. Do you recognize this exhibit?

7

A: Yes I do.

8

Ms. Kagan: I request to have Exhibit 68 moved into evidence.

ms.

Judge McElroy: Objection?