Documente Academic
Documente Profesional
Documente Cultură
05/10/2012
In re Marriage of:
)
Petitioner: KIRSTEN COOK, )
)
and ) Case No. 04D004333
)
Respondent: KENNETH ALAN COOK )
)
___________________________________)
Page 1
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
20 Also Present:
21 KIRSTEN COOK
KENNETH ALAN COOK
22
23
24
25
Page 2
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 I N D E X
2 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
3 Mr. Nelson ........................................ 4
4
5 E X H I B I T S
6 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
7 Exhibit A Notice of Taking Deposition 4
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 3
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 4
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Are there any documents from any third parties
3 which you utilized -4 A. Yes.
5 Q. -- in conducting your custody evaluation?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Are there any documents which were requested
8 on the Notice of Deposition that you did not bring with
9 you?
10 A. Not to my knowledge.
11 MR. NELSON: At the outset of the deposition we have
12 a stipulation with Ms. Khyltash, who is counsel for
13 Mr. Cook, and as part of that stipulation I'm going to
14 read into the record that stipulation.
15 This deposition is moving forward by
16 stipulation over Ms. Ann Khyltash's objection due to an
17 illness. We have agreed by stipulation that Ms. Khyltash
18 has the right to cross-examine Dr. Miriam Galindo before
19 trial and that all objections, based upon questions at
20 this deposition, are expressly reserved by Ms. Khyltash.
21 There was an ex parte notice that was given to
22 our office yesterday for continuance of this deposition
23 and in consideration of this stipulation that ex parte
24 was continued.
25 Ms. Galindo, can you please briefly state,
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 5
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 6
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 7
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 8
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 9
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 judges have been very clear that the only way the file is
2 released by way of court order, Judge Linda Miller being
3 one of them, Judge Claudia Silbar being another.
4 I think the most conservative way of going
5 about this is the Court order.
6 Q. We had requested also in a letter yesterday,
7 which we received no response, about your fees. Your
8 $2,000 per day.
9 I had requested clarification as to whether or
10 not that would be 1,000 per half day.
11 Can you clarify that?
12 A. On the back of my letter that is sent to you,
13 March 12, 2012, I include a retainer agreement. In a
14 subsequent letter I refer to that retainer agreement.
15 It's very clear what constitutes a half a day and what
16 constitutes a full day.
17 I was led to believe that today would be a
18 full day.
19 Q. How were you led to believe that?
20 A. Because I was told I was going to be here for
21 a full day by way of the subpoena, and today was going to
22 start at ten o'clock.
23 I was paid $2,000 for a full day, and I was
24 told late yesterday by way of a letter, perhaps, it
25 wouldn't exceed a full day; however, I have canceled my
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 10
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 entire day and the expectation is I'm here for the day.
2 Q. Can you show me in the subpoena where it says
3 you'll be here for a full day. That was Exhibit A. I'll
4 show you Exhibit A here.
5 A. Thank you.
6 Okay. Date, May 10th, time 10:00 a.m., and I
7 was paid $2,000 for a full day.
8 So unless I'm told otherwise, I think it's
9 reasonable to come to the conclusion that it's a full
10 day.
11 Q. You just assumed it was a full day. Okay.
12 A. Here's my retainer that I sent over to you.
13 You may keep it.
14 Q. Okay.
15 MR. NELSON: I'll mark that as Exhibit C.
16 (Whereupon, Exhibit C was marked for
17 identification.)
18 Q. BY MR. NELSON: How many different evaluations
19 did you conduct in this case?
20 A. Two.
21 Q. What was your understanding of what you were
22 to conduct on the first evaluation?
23 A. Stated in the scope and purpose. So it was a
24 full custody evaluation with a specific scope. I'm not
25 sure if you want me to review the scope.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 11
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 12
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 13
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 physical custody.
2 A. What was it before?
3 Q. I don't know. You did the evaluation.
4 A. Right.
5 It remained the same as it was before.
6 Q. So your opinion was legal custody to remain
7 the same?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. Okay.
10 So basically from what I'm hearing, after
11 doing the first evaluation, the only thing you opined was
12 that Ethan needed to have some intervention immediately;
13 everything else needed to remain the same.
14 Is that basically in summary?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Okay.
17 Then help me understand that, please.
18 A. Not everything needed to stay the same. That
19 in order to sort through all the variables, we had to at
20 least attend to Ethan. And so -21 Q. When you say "all the variables," be a little
22 more specific, please.
23 A. When I was looking at this particular family,
24 there was a lot of contention, there was a lot of strife.
25 One of the most difficult -- let me define variables
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 14
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 first.
2 Variables are many different factors that are
3 affecting this family that are causing conflict. The
4 question that was given to me is what kind of custody and
5 visitation should these three children have.
6 One of the most difficult things was to
7 determine what Elliott and Lilli would benefit from when
8 Ethan was in so much trouble. So until we got Ethan some
9 help, I couldn't filter through the other factors. The
10 other factors being mother's anger. The other factors
11 being what appeared to be overprotectiveness on dad's
12 part. Sometimes contrary to what I felt were in the best
13 interest of the children.
14 Some oppositionality on dad's part. Major
15 conflict going on with the parents. Some undermining.
16 Some triangulation.
17 Q. Let me stop you. You're using terminology
18 that you've used substantially throughout your reports,
19 typically, triangulation.
20 If you could please explain what you mean by
21 that.
22 A. Sure.
23 Triangulation is best described as two parties
24 who enlist or recruit a third party to be part of the
25 conflict. So if the conflict is going on between mom and
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 15
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 16
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. In the end after your conducting of testing -3 which you did, correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. After interviews which you did, correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. -- you opined that there should be joint legal
8 custody of Elliott and Lilli, correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Mother be granted sole legal custody of Ethan;
11 is that correct?
12 A. Pertaining to something in particular?
13 Q. Residential treatment.
14 A. That's right.
15 Q. Joint physical custody and primary physical
16 custody of Lilli and Elliott?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. And then father have alternate weekends?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Every Wednesday overnight, correct?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. That report was issued June 23, 2010?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And you finished your interviews -- your last
25 interviews approximately when for this report?
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 17
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 18
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 19
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 20
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 21
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 22
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 23
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 24
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 25
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 26
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 William Austin.
2 Q. And who is William Austin?
3 A. He's an authority on move-away cases in the
4 psycholegal literature.
5 Q. And where is he based? Is he in California?
6 A. I don't know. I'd have to let you know.
7 Q. Wouldn't that be important since we're dealing
8 with California law?
9 A. Not necessarily because William Austin is not
10 necessarily talking about the law. He's talking about
11 the psychology and some psychological factors that impact
12 the best interest of the children when we talk about
13 move-aways. And these criteria are not necessarily
14 included in La Musga, which is why it is important to
15 also consider them. So these are psychological factors
16 rather than legal.
17 Q. Well, tell me then, according to your
18 understanding, factors 1 through 8, which you are
19 identifying as legal factors; is that correct? Is that
20 what you identify them as?
21 A. All I can say is they're the La Musga criteria
22 and -23 Q. You identified them as legal factors.
24 A. They are under a particular case, so they're
25 based on case law. Many of them are psychological in
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 27
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 28
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 29
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 30
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 31
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 32
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 33
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 34
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 35
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 36
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 A. Okay.
2 Q. However, 3011 specifically is limited to
3 proceedings as described in Section 3021, which I just
4 discussed. Those proceedings in 3021 are judicial
5 proceedings.
6 Do you understand that?
7 A. I have no idea where you're going with this.
8 No, I don't understand.
9 What would you like me to answer?
10 Q. Well, I think you have answered that you
11 are -- you believe that you are to look -- you believe
12 that you are looking and making determinations based upon
13 the broad knowledge in the psycholegal community that you
14 are to look at 3011 best interests, and that is
15 understood in the psycholegal community as part of the
16 child custody evaluation; correct?
17 A. I think you're misstating what I said.
18 Q. Then please tell me what you mean.
19 A. There's very specific -- there's a very
20 specific charge that's given to us.
21 Q. By whom and when?
22 A. California Rules of Court.
23 Q. Which California Rule of Court?
24 A. I already said.
25 Q. 5.220 again, correct?
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 37
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. And then when you asked who knows about this,
4 that's what I said, well, it's well understood by child
5 custody evaluators in our community.
6 Q. Well, so even though the Court did not order
7 you to conduct this evaluation under any California Rule
8 of Court, be it 5.220 or any Family Code, be it 3011 or
9 under a judicial proceeding under 3021 or 3022, you still
10 believe that that was part of your charge, correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Now, let me go to the preamble you have as far
13 as your scope, assignment and purpose.
14 It appears that when you wrote this order -15 I'm sorry, when you wrote -- let me back up.
16 Pursuant to the minute order in June 17th you
17 were appointed to conduct a custody evaluation updating
18 evaluation involving the minor children; Ethan, Elliott,
19 and Lilli, and their children [sic].
20 First question, where was Ethan at the time
21 that you got this charge?
22 A. He was living with his father.
23 Q. Scope and the purposes was to provide the
24 following analysis of a proposed move-away according to
25 La Musga criteria.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 38
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 39
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 40
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 41
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 42
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 Ethan's care.
2 The second evaluation I'm very clearly saying
3 something needs to change. Here are the psychological
4 factors that I'm seeing that may persuade the Court to
5 consider a change in the legal status. But I am leaving
6 that decision to change things to the Court.
7 Q. So if I'm understanding you correctly, you
8 recommend joint legal custody in the first report and
9 that's okay, but that does not exceed your scope as a
10 psychologist; is that correct, or does it?
11 A. I, at the time, beyond Ethan's concerns, did
12 not have any information that would help the Court make a
13 decision about whether or not to change the legal custody
14 status.
15 What I was in effect saying is leave it alone
16 because I don't have anything to give you otherwise. In
17 this case I had a lot to give.
18 Q. Well, when you say I don't have anything to
19 give you in the first report, you nonetheless do give the
20 Court something, correct?
21 A. Uh-huh. Not pertaining to the joint legal
22 custody status.
23 Q. In fact, you do. Let's look at page 38 of
24 your first report.
25 Parenting Plan Recommendations, joint legal
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 43
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 44
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 45
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 46
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 47
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 48
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 49
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 50
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 that?
2 A. I did.
3 Q. And how so did you explore that?
4 A. A couple of ways. One was to interview the
5 kids two times. Second is -6 Q. Only two times?
7 A. With me.
8 Second is I was able to speak with minors'
9 counsel who interviewed the children.
10 Q. How many times did he interview them?
11 A. I don't know.
12 Q. Isn't that important to know?
13 A. Not necessarily.
14 Q. Why not?
15 A. Because he is representing the best interests
16 of the children and so he shared with me what the
17 children had shared with him.
18 Q. He doesn't have any psycho training at all,
19 does he?
20 A. I don't know.
21 Q. Wouldn't that be important to know?
22 A. No, because I was going to say that the
23 third -- I'll just answer your questions, no.
24 Q. What's the third?
25 A. The third is I spoke with the detective who
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 51
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 52
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 53
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 54
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 version.
2 Q. Sure.
3 A. It's on page 4. August 4th, 2011.
4 Would you like me to read it?
5 Q. Is this the full message or is this the key
6 portion of it?
7 A. This is the portion that I was able to hear
8 enough in order to be able to write it down.
9 So the ellipse marks indicate that there are
10 words that were in the message, but I wasn't able to
11 write down.
12 Q. So -- and this was left on an answering
13 machine; is that correct?
14 A. That's correct.
15 Q. On the father's phone?
16 A. I don't know which phone. I don't know.
17 Q. Do you know if Lilli had her own cell phone?
18 A. I don't know.
19 Q. Would it be important if it was left on
20 father's phone and he let Lilli listen to it?
21 A. (No audible response.)
22 Q. Assume for a second that you know mother is
23 upset, she leaves something on father's cell phone.
24 Father then hears an upset comment by mother because of
25 this contentious divorce and he purposely takes it over
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 55
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 56
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 57
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 58
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 59
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 Q. Give me an estimation.
2 A. I can't even estimate.
3 Q. Dozens?
4 A. At a minimum dozens.
5 Q. Well, since you've quoted so many family
6 codes, you certainly are aware of the code that says that
7 it is policy of the State of California that both parents
8 spend substantial time with their children, correct?
9 A. That's correct.
10 Q. Now, obviously we have a huge geography
11 distance between mother and the children, right?
12 A. That's right.
13 Q. We have now an order in place for monitored
14 phone calls that currently is not taking place because of
15 financial reasons as well as some other things.
16 Were you aware of that?
17 A. No, I wasn't aware of that.
18 Q. Do you think that that has detriment on Lilli
19 of not having mother be involved in her life at all?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Which do you think is the greater evil here,
22 this phone call that happened nine months ago or not
23 having mom in her life at all right now?
24 A. Can I have a third option, which is, I would
25 say that they would be equally detrimental.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 60
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 61
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 nine months paying for a phone message, that's not -2 Q. What else is it?
3 A. Well, I describe everything else in the report
4 and I am very specific on page 35, the six points that I
5 list what else it is.
6 And I make it very clear if these things don't
7 happen, then I think it would be in the best interest of
8 the children to have a healthy relationship with their
9 mother.
10 Q. So the treatment you're talking about -- tell
11 me where you outline the treatment the mother should go
12 through. You talk about on page 35 the treatment.
13 A. Page 36 is actually the step-up plan. And the
14 treatment is on page 38, number 9. And under the
15 treatment I ask -- this is my suggested treatment plan, I
16 suggest anger management. I suggest a psychiatric
17 consultation to determine whether or not a medication
18 might be helpful with the anger, irritability and verbal
19 aggression, and I suggest a year of cognitive therapy.
20 And I can explain what that is if you'd like.
21 Q. Before mother has unmonitored even phone calls
22 she needs to go through an anger management course, have
23 a psychiatric consultation and year of a cognitive
24 therapy; am I understanding your recommendation
25 correctly?
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 62
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 63
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 64
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 65
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 66
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 67
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 68
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 69
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 70
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 of complexity to that.
2 Please explain that.
3 A. I guess my explanation would be that you are
4 interpreting it in a different way than it was presented
5 and so that might explain why it seems to be more
6 restrictive than the unmonitored visitation plan that I
7 lay out.
8 So I think it's -- if we could summarize it,
9 it's a matter of interpretation, and I'm happy to clarify
10 as I've been clarifying if that would help.
11 Q. I would love to have it clarified.
12 A. So if there's any doubt at all, the best way
13 to interpret this is to go to page 36 and use the step-up
14 plan as your main source, and then from the step-up plan,
15 refer to the items as listed.
16 The treatment should -- the complete treatment
17 should occur for a year. However, as I described in the
18 step-up plan, there is the option to liberalize
19 visitation prior to that year, obviously, because as you
20 can see with the unmonitored phone calls, I don't even
21 indicate she needs to start treatment. I'm simply saying
22 these are the things that need to happen so that we can
23 do unmonitored phone calls.
24 So this can start right away and should have
25 started right away.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 71
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 72
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 73
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 74
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 75
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 76
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 77
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 78
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 father, you simply have a line item that says, Met with
2 father face to face on 7/21.
3 A. Right.
4 Q. There's nothing in here that I saw -- maybe
5 you can point it out if I missed it -- where you left
6 messages for father. All I see is on 7/21 you met with
7 him.
8 A. That's correct. Because on June 29th when I
9 called him, he picked up. So I was able to schedule an
10 appointment with him.
11 Q. So what is of significance and why would you
12 put this in your report that you left multiple messages
13 between 7/1 and 7/29 and she did not return your calls
14 until 7/21?
15 A. Just an accounting of time, as I indicate on
16 the front. Accounting of time, bottom of page two.
17 Q. There's no actual time accounting though. It
18 doesn't have a billing time. It doesn't have anything.
19 A. That's not the purpose. It's simply to
20 indicate what was happening on particular days.
21 As you notice, I didn't render an opinion. I
22 simply said this is what's happening. Here's when the
23 appointments happened. Here's the attempts I made.
24 Here's the phone calls that happened. No meaning was
25 drawn at this point.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 79
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 80
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 81
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 82
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 83
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 84
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 85
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 86
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 87
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 88
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 89
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 90
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 91
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 92
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 93
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 94
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 95
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 96
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 Do you agree?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. So her showing you her job search here or lack
4 thereof, her attempts to schedule appointments with you
5 prior to moving would have a substantial bearing on the
6 process of that 730, that is, looking into her ability to
7 move with the children.
8 Do you agree?
9 A. Those are -- one of those are factors, and the
10 factor was actually described in my evaluation page 28,
11 item G, the reason for the proposed move; and I laid that
12 out. Mom states she had to move to Hong Kong because
13 there are no jobs within her field here in the
14 United States. And mom believes move to Hong Kong would
15 provide educational advantage for the children.
16 So I do consider that among the La Musga
17 factors.
18 Q. What was the one main factor, if there was
19 one, that you felt it was not in the best interest for
20 the children to move to Hong Kong?
21 A. There were several factors.
22 Q. I want you to pick out the key factor.
23 A. I can't narrow it down to just one. There are
24 several factors.
25 Q. Give me a top. What was the number one
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 97
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 factor?
2 A. Cannot do that.
3 Q. What was the top two?
4 A. Children's preference and mom's gatekeeping.
5 Q. What does that mean?
6 A. Gatekeeping is a concept to describe the
7 custodial parent's ability and capacity to support
8 frequent and continuing contact with the other parent in
9 the healthiest manner possible.
10 And the gatekeeping is referring
11 metaphorically to the opening and closing of the gates,
12 which allows the children to move out freely toward the
13 noncustodial parent.
14 Q. So as we sit here today, if I was to tell you
15 that father has not allowed phone calls at the outset,
16 that's why we -- that's why monitored phone calls were
17 instituted in the first place; that would be an example
18 of gatekeeping or lack thereof on father's part, correct?
19 A. Is this a hypothetical?
20 Q. No, it's not a hypothetical. It's a fact.
21 A. I don't know if your premise is accurate.
22 I do not believe that that's why monitored
23 phone calls were established to make sure that dad
24 facilitates the phone calls. I do not believe that's the
25 case at all.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 98
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 99
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 100
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 101
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 102
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 103
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 104
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 105
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 106
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 107
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 108
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 109
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 110
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 111
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 112
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 not?
2 A. She did.
3 Q. I'm writing to file a complaint against
4 Miriam Galindo, and she tells you -- registered child
5 custody 730 evaluator. You were appointed to perform a
6 730, the first one, and it was completed seven months
7 later.
8 And then you start another one that was to
9 begin and it didn't begin for two and a half months.
10 And then she goes on to list complaint after
11 complaint. Resolving ethical issues problem, competence
12 and maintaining competence. Human relations. Outdated
13 technology and canceling an appointment with her.
14 Putting your children at risk. And then the very last
15 line, I want Dr. Galindo formally investigated and
16 penalized for her uncaring and professional practices.
17 I mean, that is a scathing letter that would
18 put anyone's hair on the back of their neck stand up
19 straight and you're sitting here telling me that did not
20 bias you at all.
21 A. You have to remember that I've spent time with
22 this family back in June 23, 2010, and I describe
23 mother's anger in this report.
24 I describe it in this report. I've described
25 the contention between the family members and their
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 113
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 114
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 115
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 116
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 boy was going downhill rapidly, and that the next thing
2 that was going to happen was he was going to be arrested.
3 He was going to get into big time trouble. In fact, what
4 I found out is he did.
5 But my point is, I wanted to know -- my point
6 is that's an example of something that started off in my
7 previous evaluation that I then needed to explore to see
8 is it a pattern, a continuing problem and a pattern, or
9 is it an isolated incident.
10 I'm using that as a comparison so you can see
11 that taken out of context little things may -- may be
12 nothing or there may be something. And it's my job to
13 see if they're part of a pattern or if it's just a bad
14 day.
15 Q. And what did you determine about why Ethan is
16 still here; is that a bad day or a pattern for father?
17 A. My -- when I talked to mom it sounds like she
18 was very frustrated because she felt like this was
19 dragged out by dad. That dad was resistant to the
20 process of placing Ethan in RTC.
21 It sounds like Kay Davison was not as helpful
22 as I would have liked to see.
23 And, according to mom, it sounds like, from
24 dad's point of view, that he felt like lesser intensive
25 treatments should be tried first before going to an RTC.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 117
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 118
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 119
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 120
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 121
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. You say an opportunity to speak with all the
3 children.
4 A. That's right. But I don't think I spent a lot
5 of time -- you can show me where, but I don't think I
6 spent a lot of time on the second report as opposed to
7 the first, that's why I wanted to clarify.
8 Q. The question is this, it's come up. Ethan has
9 had some issues in the RTC and your recommendation has
10 been for both parties to be able to talk with Ethan where
11 he currently is.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. However, in this report because most of it,
14 and I agree, I think your intent was to deal with Lilli
15 and Elliott, yet you repeatedly say "the children"
16 throughout this report. Okay. Talking about monitored
17 phone calls, monitored visits, monitored, and so forth.
18 A. I see what you're saying.
19 Q. The question is this, when I look at the -20 all of the orders in total and the recommendations by
21 their self, it seems to me your intent was that mother be
22 able to speak with Ethan without a monitor freely, but
23 that the monitored visits, certainly as I understand
24 through our deposition, that she follow what your
25 recommendations are.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 122
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 123
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 124
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 125
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 126
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 127
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 A. May I look?
2 Q. Sure.
3 A. For the first evaluation I did. For the
4 update I consulted with the detective that was appointed
5 to -- or who was overseeing Ethan's case at the time I
6 did my first evaluation.
7 But as far as an analysis of call-out logs,
8 that was covered in my first report and I can direct you
9 to that if you'd like.
10 Q. Was this evaluation given to you for the first
11 report or the second report?
12 A. This was for the second report. And if you
13 see on page 18 of my first report, it indeed reflects
14 accurately what mom is talking about, that there's a
15 number of call-outs.
16 Q. When you say "call-outs," what do you mean by
17 that?
18 A. It's not necessarily a written report, but if
19 I specifically asked for the call log from the particular
20 police department or the sheriff's department and I can
21 tell them specifically what address, what location they
22 may have a call-out log.
23 Sometimes they don't have any documentation;
24 sometimes they do. What I have to have is an address, a
25 specific location, police -- name of the police
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 128
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 129
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 130
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 131
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 Q. The way -- as you've written this, I think -2 I go to a lot of words that seem to be -- you know, I
3 guess in the clinical sense they are what they are.
4 A. Right.
5 Q. Paranoia, persecutory ideation, schizotypal
6 thinking and so forth. However, I see that you say no
7 diagnoses can be rendered based on testing alone; that's
8 thrown in the middle there.
9 It seems to me that although I know the judges
10 read a lot of these, that that came out in big bold type,
11 you know, because -12 A. You want people to pay attention.
13 Q. You're not making a diagnosis here, correct?
14 A. Exactly.
15 Q. But when you start using words like -- I mean,
16 in this one paragraph for mother, anger, paranoia
17 schizotypal, bizarre thinking, paranoia, persecutory
18 ideation, schizotypal thinking again, longstanding mood
19 disorder, aggression, reactivity, projecting; although
20 you've not made a diagnosis, those can be very
21 detrimental in a child custody evaluation; do you not
22 agree?
23 A. No, I don't agree. It can be interpreted that
24 way.
25 Q. Do you think there's a probability or a high
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 132
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 133
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 134
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 passive/aggressive ways.
2 Would you like me to explain one more thing
3 that would be helpful?
4 Q. Sure.
5 A. Psychologists are prohibited from either
6 overstating or understating the test results of
7 psychological testing. They just need to state the
8 results. That is one of the requirements. Once you do
9 psychological testing, you need to say what did you see;
10 what elevations were there; why would there be
11 inconsistencies one year ago as opposed to now. Draw
12 some kind of conclusion.
13 So hopefully that answers your question.
14 Q. Are you required to recuse yourself if it's
15 likely that you are unable to be unbiased in a custody
16 evaluation?
17 A. If there is a conflict, it is not necessarily
18 required, but it is strongly recommended that that
19 conflict be expressed and that an option is to recuse
20 yourself. Yes, there is such a provision.
21 Q. So after receiving that August 27th letter
22 from Ms. Cook, don't you believe that probably would have
23 been the best course of action, to recuse yourself at
24 that point?
25 A. I don't agree. I don't agree.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 135
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 136
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 137
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 138
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 139
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 140
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 141
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 Q. So then I'm back to -2 A. So if you have the paperwork from the doctor
3 in Hong Kong, I can discuss that.
4 Q. I'm just trying to understand why you didn't
5 get the paperwork from this doctor.
6 A. I have no idea.
7 (Whereupon, Exhibit I was marked for
8 identification.)
9 Q. Well, as you look here, I've marked as
10 Exhibit I -11 A. How did you get the paperwork?
12 Q. I got it from my client. I asked her for it.
13 A. I would have liked to get it from your clinic,
14 too.
15 Q. I'm sure if you would have asked her for it,
16 you would have gotten it, when you're doing an
17 evaluation.
18 A. Why not just provide it?
19 Q. I think she would state she gave you the
20 releases for that; she give you a general release and
21 provided those names. I think she would say that.
22 A. Okay.
23 Would you like to ask me a question about the
24 particular paperwork that you've given me?
25 Q. Well, the first one was, yes, if she gave you
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 142
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 143
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 are ups and downs. "Recurrent" does not mean ups and
2 downs.
3 A. It means that you're going this way,
4 recurrent.
5 Q. "Recurrent" means to happen again and again.
6 A. Exactly.
7 Q. What you're describing with your finger is ups
8 and downs like a sign wave.
9 A. Here's the baseline.
10 Q. That is not recurrent.
11 A. Then you draw the current.
12 Q. "Recurrent" means when it happens again and
13 again, when you quote Webster's.
14 A. Then I appreciate you correcting me on my use
15 of grammar.
16 Recurrent is it happens again and again.
17 Q. So when -18 A. By ups and downs I meant good days and bad
19 days.
20 Q. That's totally different than recurrent.
21 Do you not agree?
22 A. Bad days meaning depressed states; good days
23 meaning baseline. I think we're mincing words.
24 (SIMULTANEOUS TALKING.)
25 Q. Words mean things.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 144
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 145
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 146
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 question.
2 Q. Let me clarify. I have previously shown you
3 H, which was -- so we have H, and the next exhibit I gave
4 you was the follow-up. So there are -- I.
5 A. H is July 6, and I is July 6.
6 Q. Mismarked. So I should be -- I is June 13th,
7 okay.
8 Now, we were talking about the bipolar
9 spectrum. You talked about the manic state and the
10 hypomanic state.
11 Please tell me the difference.
12 A. Hypomanic state is to a lesser degree than the
13 manic state, and typically the distinguishing factor is
14 whether to what degree it impairs functioning.
15 Q. Now, what is the opposite of manic state with
16 someone on the bipolar spectrum?
17 A. There's no opposite.
18 Q. Is there a manic depressive, is that on the
19 bipolar spectrum?
20 A. That's the old terminology.
21 Q. What's the new terminology?
22 A. Bipolar. Manic depressive is outdated.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. So I think what you're alluding to is the
25 depressive state, and there's -- there are extremes in
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 147
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 148
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 149
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 disorder.
2 Q. And what's the effect of that?
3 A. The effect of that is that it's treatable, and
4 that's good news. It's a good thing.
5 Q. As long as someone is taking medication, then
6 really that is the main thing, correct?
7 A. That's right. That's right.
8 Q. And as far as your diagnoses of father,
9 father's got a disorder as well, correct?
10 A. He's got personality characteristics that
11 were -- most of it in his testing, and also in his
12 clinical presentation and -13 Q. Was that treatable then or not?
14 A. It is not treatable with medication, but it
15 could certainly be amenable to psychoeducation. Some
16 external sort of direction. And I speak about that in my
17 recommendations in the report.
18 Q. Is that more like a character flaw than it is
19 a diagnosis of some disease?
20 A. I think that's -- I think when we're looking
21 at the results of testing, we're just looking at how are
22 people built. Some characterological patterns are
23 actually strengths and others can be weaknesses; but with
24 intervention, the weaknesses can be bolstered and the
25 strengths can be highlighted.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 150
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 151
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 152
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 (SIMULTANEOUS TALKING.)
2 Q. Dental checkup, one. Dad needs to follow that
3 rule?
4 A. That's right. And that's something that was
5 very concerning to mom.
6 Q. Take them to the dentist. Take them to the
7 orthodontist, two?
8 A. Huge.
9 Q. Maybe you think it is.
10 A. Mom thought so, too, your own client thought
11 so.
12 Q. Hey, I'm not saying that's not in the big
13 scheme of things great for the kids, but I'm saying from
14 a character flaw, from an anger management, from a
15 passive/aggressive person with a mood disorder to do this
16 is -17 A. He doesn't have a mood disorder.
18 Q. He's got passive/aggressive issues. He's got
19 things that can't be controlled through medication. And
20 the first two things are doctor related.
21 The third thing is get health insurance for
22 the kids.
23 A. Right.
24 Q. Produce evidence of two quotes for insurance
25 for Ethan.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 153
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 154
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 155
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 (SIMULTANEOUS TALKING.)
2 THE REPORTER: Okay. I'm sorry. Can you guys slow
3 down and stop talking over each other.
4 (SIMULTANEOUS TALKING.)
5 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. Really, please. Can you
6 guys stop talking over each other and slow down. I'm
7 having a really hard time.
8 THE WITNESS: Please look at 38 for treatment for
9 father.
10 Q. BY MR. NELSON: Hold on. I want to get
11 through H, I and J first.
12 H, dad's to enroll and transport the kids to
13 their activities.
14 I, demonstrate he can earn income and provide
15 for the children.
16 And then J, finally support a plan in which
17 mother has a planned visitation with the children, open
18 communication by email and some phone time. Remain
19 flexible on visitations.
20 Frankly, that's the part of the report that
21 almost makes it certain to me that it's impossible for
22 you to have received the letter from Ms. Cook and not
23 have written an ultra biased report because this portion,
24 although important to some degree, is certainly laughable
25 in comparison and contrast with the things that you have
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 156
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 157
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 158
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 with parenting.
2 Q. She doesn't have time to with all the anger
3 management and -4 A. I didn't tell her how many anger management
5 classes to take. That's her choice.
6 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. I need a break.
7 (Break taken 03:15 p.m. to 03:24 p.m.)
8 Q. BY MR. NELSON: You were saying I didn't tell
9 her how many anger management classes to take. If you
10 want to finish that sentence.
11 A. Sure.
12 Q. All right.
13 A. So as you can see on page 38, number 9, was
14 the treatment for mother. I simply say subcategory A,
15 item 1, anger management. I don't indicate whether it
16 needs to be a class. I don't indicate whether or not it
17 can be part of the cognitive therapy. It can be part of
18 whatever professional she sees.
19 I simply say just address the anger
20 management, that's it. So that's manageable, I think.
21 The psychiatric consultation, it sounds like
22 mom might actually have a professional in Hong Kong that
23 she has seen before. I don't know because I haven't
24 asked her right now if she's already checked with a
25 psychiatrist to find out if a medication might be
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 159
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 160
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 161
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 162
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 163
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 164
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 165
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 statements on him.
2 What did you mean by that?
3 A. He indicated how reluctant he was to talk to
4 mom on the phone because of this issue, but when I asked
5 him about his feelings, he minimized the impact.
6 He in one sentence is saying, it bothers him,
7 and then in the other sentence says it doesn't bother him
8 deeply. So that's what I meant.
9 He seems to understand -- he can see things
10 from his mother's perspective. He's a very empathetic
11 young man.
12 Q. So for someone who has the empathy he does,
13 that's maybe not unusual to say the statements -- the
14 empathetic response on the one hand, and yet the
15 statement -- the other statement on the other hand,
16 correct?
17 A. Yes. Because instead of worrying about one's
18 own feelings, they'll be concerned about the other
19 person's feelings.
20 So no, it's not unusual when a child is
21 empathetic and to some degree taking care of the adult's
22 feelings, at least intellectually.
23 Q. So if mother's position is now, you know,
24 almost, I guess, it's -- as we've had discussion off the
25 record, kind of -- what's the word?
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 166
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 167
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 Okay.
2 Well -3 MS. COOK: One more question.
4 MR. NELSON: All right. One second.
5 Q. The mother took the route of the job searches,
6 the 100 jobs or so, couldn't find work, moves to
7 Hong Kong where the work was.
8 In your view, had she stayed here and gotten
9 unemployment, as father did, would she have been better
10 off or been a better mom by doing that in a sense?
11 A. No. I'm not going to ascribe any value
12 judgment to it.
13 She -- better off is such a subjective term
14 anyway. A better mother.
15 MS. COOK: Would I have been a better mother to take
16 food stamps?
17 MR. NELSON: You can't ask questions, though.
18 Q. Let me ask that.
19 Would she, in your estimation, have been a
20 better mother had she decided just to stay here, you
21 know, kind of gone on the dole, takes food stamps, and/or
22 taken unemployment rather than move to Hong Kong?
23 A. No. She wouldn't have been a better mother.
24 But I also want to make it clear that I don't think
25 people who are taking food stamps are not good mothers.
SIMPSON DEPOSITION SERVICES (800) 505-9994
Page 168
YVer1f
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 169
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
Page 170
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1 * * * * *
2
3
4 I do solemnly declare under penalty of perjury
5 under the laws of the State of California that the
6 foregoing is my deposition under oath; are the questions
7 asked of me and my answers thereto; that I have read same
8 and have made the necessary corrections, additions or
9 changes to my answers that I deem necessary.
10 In witness thereof, I hereby subscribe my name
11 this______day of___________________________, 20_____.
12
13
14 __________________________
MIRIAM GALINDO
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 171
Miriam Galindo
05/10/2012
1
2 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
3
4
5 The undersigned Certified Shorthand
6 Reporter licensed in the State of California
7 does hereby certify:
8 That the foregoing deposition was taken
9 before me at the time and place therein set
10 forth, at which time the witness was duly sworn
11 by me;
12 That the testimony of the witness and
13 all objections made at the time of the
14 examination were recorded stenographically by me
15 and were thereafter transcribed, said transcript
16 being a true copy of my shorthand notes thereof.
17 In witness whereof, I have subscribed my
18 name this date: May 21, 2012.
19
20
21
22
_____________________________
23 Karen Carlton Davis
Certificate Number 6774
24
25
Page 172