Documente Academic
Documente Profesional
Documente Cultură
Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis?Quora
MedicalDiagnoses
MachineLearning
MedicineandHealthcare
Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedfor
medicaldiagnosis?
Inmyunderstanding,diagnosisisarelativelystraightforwardmachinelearningproblem.
Technologyexistsforcodingbothsymptomsandconditions,andtherearelargedatasetsof
trainingdataavailable.Theliteratureonthetopicisprettythoroughandsomeadvanced
algorithmshavealreadybee...(more)
Answer
Request
Follow 496
Comments 4+
Share 65
There'smoreonQuora...
Picknewpeopleandtopicstofollowandseethe
bestanswersonQuora.
UpdateYourInterests
Downvote
49Answers
OmarMetwally,M.D.,HealthTechnologist
WrittenMay30,2013
IusedtoscratchmyheadaskingthesamequestionuntilIhadanenlightening
conversationwithaclosefriendofminewhoworksforalargehealthcareconsulting
company.Heledmetotherealizationthataphysician'sagendaismuchdifferentthana
machinelearningpractitioner'sagenda,whichismuchdifferentthanalawmaker's
agenda,whichismuchdifferentthanahospitaladministrator'sagenda.Inthespiritof
fulldisclosure,Iamamedicaldoctorwithamachinelearningbackground,andIuseML
onadailybasistohelpotherhealthcareprofessionalssolveproblems.
Tolayouttheproblemmoreconcretely,let'sdividethehealthcarelandscapeinto3broad
categories:
1)Largeinstitutions,suchasuniversitiesandprivatehospitals
2)Solophysiciansinprivatepractice,orsmallgroupsofphysicians,whoaretryingto
resistthetrendtowardconsolidation.
3.Healthcareprofessionals,suchasnurses,physicaltherapists,andadministrators,who
arejustascriticaltoasuccessfulpracticeasphysiciansare
Healthcareprofessionalshaveseveralgoals:
1)Wewanttohelpourpatientslivehealthierlives.
2.Wewanttodoourworkmoreefficiently.
Healthcareprofessionalsoftenworkinhighvolumeenvironmentsandmustbeperfect,
evenundertimepressure.Electronicmedicalrecordsareconstantlybeingchangedand
upgraded,andphysiciansspend/wastetoomuchtimebeingtrainedonamovingtarget.
Physiciansinlargergroupsfaceperpetualpressuretoseemorepatientsinlesstime,while
documentingalloftheirencounterstotheT.
3.Costreduction.
Thisisimportantwhetherwe'retalkingaboutsolopracticesorlargeacademicinstitutions.
Thisisalsoimportantonasocietallevel,asitpertainstolackofpreventativecareand
resourceutilization.
MoreRelatedQuestions
QuestionStats
496Followers
87,683Views
LastAskedSat
Edits
Machinelearningpromisestohelpphysiciansmakenearperfectdiagnoses,choosethe
bestmedicationsfortheirpatients,predictreadmissions,identifypatientsathighriskfor
pooroutcomes,andingeneralimprovepatients'healthwhileminimizingcosts.Thisis
happeningatarapidpacedespitethemanyhurdles,whichcanbeovercomeby
practitionersandconsultantswhoknowthelegal,technical,andmedicalobstaclesandthe
bestsolutionstothoseobstacles.
Intheearlyinfancyofhealthcareinformatics,beforeitwasevencalledhealthcare
informatics,machinelearningalgorithmssuchasneuralnetworksandsupportvector
machineswereshowedoffinpublicationsthatpredictedthelikelihoodofmalignancyor
mortalityfromadisease.OnerecentpublicationthatillustratesthisisArtificialneural
networksandprostatecancer...[NatRevUrol.2013] fromagroupattheCharite
HospitalinBerlin.Thisisagreatpaper,andtheChariteHospitalhasatraditionofstrong
interdisciplinaryworkbetweenphysiciansandcomputerscientistsIappreciatedthis
quicklywhileIwasrotatingthere.However,mostphysicianshaveneverevenheardof
https://www.quora.com/Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis
1/6
9/19/2016
Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis?Quora
machinelearning,andmostMLpractitionersdon'tunderstandtherealitiesofpracticing
medicine.
ManyapplicationsofMLfordiagnosisarejusttoyexampleofwhatmachinelearningcan
do.Therealityisthatphysiciansusuallydon'tneedhelpmakingdiagnosesbecausethey
candevelopakeenGestaltappreciationofapatientjustbylookingather/him.Eventhe
mostsophisticatedMLalgorithmcan'tlookatasickchildinhermother'sarmsanddecide
whethersheneedstobeemergentlyintubatedorwhethershecanbedischargedwith
conservativetherapy.Physicianssynthesizehugeamountsofinformationwithin
milliseconds,oftenjustby"eyeballing"apatient.
However,asanMLpractitioner,IamveryexcitedabouttheemergingroleofMLin
healthcare,andIamabelieverinitscapacitytotransformhealthcareforthebetter.
Machinelearningcandoscutworkforhealthcareprofessionals,leavingthemwithmore
timetodothemostimportantpartoftheirwork:communicatewithpatients.PerhapsML
isnotbeingusedmorefordiagnosisbecauseit'smoresuitedtopredictreadmissions,triage
patients,autopopulateordersets,andalltheothertasksthatcanbeautomatedsothat
healthcareprofessionalscanputtheirtimetobetteruse.LetMLalgorithmsdowhatthey
dobest,andlethumansdowhattheydobest.
OnefinalpointI'dliketomakepertainstolawsgoverninghealthcaredata,andthe
availabilityofhealthcaredataingeneral.HIPAAisanecessarylawbecausehealthcare
dataissensitiveandshouldbeprotected.TheflipsidetothisisthatMLpractitionershave
lessflexibilitytoplaywithdataandmoveitaround.Eventhelargesthealthcareconsulting
companywiththefanciestsoftwarearoundislimitedbytheavailabilityofquality,
consistentdata,evenamongthelargestinstitutions.Theharvestingandsafekeepingof
healthcaredataisanimportantnicheinthehealthcareinformaticsecosystem.Oncethis
dataismadeavailabletohealthcareprofessionalsinsecure,HIPAAcompliantdatabases,
thenthey'llappreciatethemanifoldapplicationsofmachinelearning,beyondmere
diagnosis.
25.6kViewsViewUpvotes
Upvote 132
Downvote Comments 6+
KaichengLiang,biomedicalengineer
UpdatedFeb1,2012UpvotedbyJessicaSu,CSPhDstudentatStanfordandLiliJiang,Data
ScientistatQuora
Thisisatopicclosetomyheartasabiomedicalengineer,andI'vereadtheanswershere
carefullyandenjoyedallofthem,especiallyJaeWonJoh'sverypersuasivecasestudy.
PreviouslywhileanundergraduateatDuke,Iworkedforabouttwoyearsdevelopinga
prototypedevicethatperformsbreastbiopsybasedonrealtime3Dultrasoundguidance,
andrequiresnohumanguidanceorintervention.Duringthecourseofconceptualization,
discussionswithsurgeonsandradiologists,buildinganddesign,andrebuttalsto
(sometimeshostile!)journalpeerreviews,I'veconsideredsomeoftheseissuesatgreat
length,andIwouldliketosharesomeofmythoughts.
Thegeneralconsensusfromtheanswerssofaristhatwearealongwayfromseeing
machinelearningoranykindofartificialintelligencetechniquefinditswayintomedical
diagnosis,andthattheclinicalneedforsuchathing(ifaneedevenexists)isofrelatively
lowpriority.IndeedthecomplexityofJaeWon'sclinicalexamplewouldinstantlyturnoff
someengineersasan(asyet)impossibleproblem.
ButIwouldarguethatAItechniqueshaveadefiniteclinicalvalueinrelativelysimpler
problems,particularlythosebasedonimaging,whichhasbecomeatremendously
successfuldiagnosistoolinrecentyears.Imagingathighquality(CT,MRI),highspeed
(ultrasound)andboth(OCT)hasbeggedthequestionofhowwemayuseimage
processingandlearningtechniques,honedtoincrediblesophisticationinthelastcentury
andubiquitousinbothindustrialandconsumertechnology,inaclinicalscenario.Iam
proposingthatsuchtechnologynotreplaceadoctor'sexperienceandexpertise,buttake
careofrelativelystraightforwardyettimeconsumingdiagnosistasks,thusfreeingupthe
doctorformoreclinicallydemandingprocedures.IntheThirdWorld,suchtechnology
couldgoastepfurtherinassistinghealthcareprofessionals,especiallywhendoctorsare
oftenscarceandoverworked.
AIappliedtothediagnosisofbreastcancerisanincrediblyactivefieldinmedicalimaging
andengineeringresearch.Thebreastbeingexternalislogisticallyconvenientforimaging
https://www.quora.com/Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis
2/6
9/19/2016
Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis?Quora
andcanprovideimagesofstunningclarity.Currentprotocolforbreastcancerdiagnosis
involvesamammogram(Xray)andthenanultrasoundduringthelattertheradiologist
mighttakeaneedlecorebiopsy.Biopsycanbeatrickyprocedureevenforanexperienced
practitioner,andsideeffectssuchasbleedingandinfectionarenontrivial.Thedifficulty
isindiscerningthelesiononultrasound(whichhaslowresolution),andthenspatially
locatingandtargetingthelesionintheultrasound'sviewingplaneusingthebiopsyneedle
(whichbecomesintuitiveonlyaftersignificantpractice).
These(human)difficultiesarealmosttailormadefora(superhuman)machineto
overcome.BreastcancerindicationsforbiopsyonXrayandultrasoundareunambiguous
anddefinitivefor90%ofcases,andwouldbeastraightforwardrecognitionproblemfor
machinelearning,whichhasthebenefitofmillionsofhighqualitybreastimagesacquired
inthepastthatcanbeusedastrainingsets.
Icannameatleastonecompanythathassuccessfullyimplementedcomputeraided
diagnosisinpartnershipwithanultrasoundimagingfirmtheirFDAapprovedsoftware
canaccuratelyclassifyanddiagnosebreastlesions.GroupsatDuke,JohnsHopkinsand
UCSDareworkingindependentlyonrobotictechniquesthatwouldeasilyandrepeatably
reachtheselesionsthataresodifficultforafatiguedorlessexperiencedclinician,withthe
helpofcomputeranalysis.Suchtechniqueswouldalsobeagreatassettogroupssuchas
DoctorsWithoutBordersinthedevelopingworld,wherespeed,repeatabilityandaccuracy
inthesimplestoftissuesamplingtaskscouldhaveanincredibleimpactonlarge
communitieswithlimitedaccesstothemostbasicofhealthcare.
Whileweshouldbefullyawareofthedifficultyofaccuratemedicaldiagnosisandbe
carefulnottotrivializetheworkofthemedicalpractitionerasameredecisiontree,we
shouldneverstoplookingforareaswheretechnologycouldhelpthepatient(andthe
doctor!).Ironicallysomeofthesepossibilitiesaretheproblemsthatseemthemost'trivial'
becausethereisnothingwecandoaboutthemduetoourhumanlimitations.Butitis
preciselytheselowlevelproblemsthatwillbeeasyfodderfortechnology.Sowhilewe
appreciatethatthepracticeofmedicinerequiresthehighestlevelsofhumanability,itis
importantthatwedonotcloseourmindtothepossibilitiesoftechnologicalaidsthatcould
freedoctorsupforthereallyhardstuff.
Butthenbacktothequestioniftechnologyworkssowellasthedoctor'sassistant,why
aren'tweseeingmoreofit?Ithinkwealreadyare(atleastwe'realreadypayingforit!),
andIbelieveitisonlyamatteroftimebeforemachinelearningcomesintowidespread
clinicaluse.Butthemainproblemisalmostcertainlysocietalacceptancenobodywantsa
computercheckingthemoutanddecidingtheyhavecancer(justlookwhathappenedinA
SpaceOdyssey),andtheFDAisthusextremelycarefulaboutmedicaldevices,especially
thosethatareinvasive,andforgoodreason.
Asecondaryproblemisthatonlyasmallpercentageofcliniciansareinterestedin(and
haveanytimeatallfor)collaborationswithengineerstodevelopviablemedical
technology.AshasbeenpreviouslydiscussedonQuora,somedoctorsarenotalways
comfortableandfamiliarwithcomputersandengineering,andwouldoftenprefertheir
triedandtestedbutadmittedlyoldschoolmethodsthatseemmorereliable.Thereisalso
theimpressionthatengineersoversimplifyclinicalproblems,andproducesolutionsthat
arenearlyasimpossibleastheproblemsthemselves.
Whatisneededhereissimplymoredialogbetweenengineersandclinicianssotheycan
betterunderstandeachother'sworkandconcerns.IntheUS,wheremedicalstudentsdo
verysubstantialbiomedicalresearch,suchacultureiscommonandcelebrated,butin
manypartsoftheworldwheremedicalschoollacksanR&Dcomponent,doctorshave
consequentlyverylittleinterestoutsideoftheirpatients.
Quoraisfastbecomingnotonlyatechnologycentriccommunitybutalsoaveritable
resourceofmedicalopinionthisisagreatplaceformedicalengineeringcollaborationsto
conceptualizeandtakeshape.Ihopethebrilliantcomputerscientistsinourcommunity
arenotdemoralizedbythemassivenessoftheclinicalproblem,butinsteadfocuson
discoveringnicheswheretechnologycouldbeavaluableasset.Ibelieveitisoftenthe
simplestandmosttrivialclinicalquestionsthatseemthemosthopelesslyinsolvableindeed
theyare'trivial'becausewehavealreadygivenupandgrowntoacceptthem.Butwhatis
impossibletoaclinicianisalmostalwayssomethingthatanengineerhasananswerto.
35.3kViewsViewUpvotes
Upvote 221
Downvote Comments 7+
https://www.quora.com/Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis
3/6
9/19/2016
Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis?Quora
JaeWonJoh,sleepymedicaldork
WrittenFeb18,2011UpvotedbyNickGenes,AssociateProfessorofEmergencyMedicineat
theMountSinaiHospitalinNewYorkCityandJessicaSu,CSPhDstudentatStanford
Anactualclinicalexamplewillbemorepowerfulthananyspiel/explanation.Thisiswhat
happenedwhenapatientcameinwiththesinglecomplaintofabdominalpain.
===STEP1:DIFFERENTIALDIAGNOSIS===
Possibleetiologiesbrokendownbytype(tobehonest,I'msuretherearemanypossibilities
I'mforgetting):
Infectious(*=multiplecauses):
disseminatedTB
worm/otherparasite*
gastroenteritis*
ulcers*
abscess*
Malignancy(*=multipletypes):
pancreaticcancer*
coloncancer*
stomachcancer*
kidneycancer*
sarcoma*
cholangiocarcinoma
lymphoma*
MALToma*
hepatocellularcarcinoma
metastasisfromaprimarytumorelsewhereinthebody*
Physiologic(*=multiplecauses):
constipation*
hepaticdamage*
splenicdamage*
diverticulitis/diverticulosis
Crohn'sdisease
intussception
appendicitis
inflammatoryboweldisease
irritablebowelsyndrome
kidneystone*
===STEP2:HISTORY===
WhatquestionsdidIaskthepatient?Allofthefollowing:
Howoldareyou?
Whatisyourethnicheritage?
Canyoudescribetheonsetofyourpain?
Wherespecificallyisthepain?
https://www.quora.com/Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis
4/6
9/19/2016
Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis?Quora
Howlongdoesitlast?
Isitsharp?Dull?Throbbing?Constant?Intermittent?
Arethereanyassociatedsymptoms?
Doesthepainradiateanywhere?
Onascaleof110,howbadisit?
Doesanythingmakeitbetter/worse?
Doyouhaveanyothermedicalproblems?
Whatmajorillnesseshaveyouhadinthepast?
Haveyoueverbeenhospitalized?Ifso,forwhat,when,andhowlong?
Whatmedicationshaveyoubeenon?Whatmedicationsareyouonnow?
Whatisyourcurrentlivingarrangement?
Doyouhaveajob?Ifso,whatisyourprofession?
Canyoudescribesomeofyourdailyactivities?
AskQuestion
AskorSearchQuora
Areyouexperiencingstressorsinyourfinances,personalrelationships,orother
aspectsofyourlife?
Whatisyourdietlike?...
(more)
Upvote 278
Downvote Comments 7+
YaroslavBulatov,SoftwareEngineeratGoogle
WrittenFeb18,2011
ProbabilisticexpertsystembasedonPromedasisbeingusedatUltrechtMedicalHospital.
Youcanseehowitworksbycreatingafakepatientandrunningsometestsunder
"PromedasLive"http://www.promedas.nl/
Asfarasgoingfurtherthanassistingwithdiagnosisbasedonseriesoftestoutcomes,there
areunresolvedchallengesanMLsystemthatreplacesadoctorneedsgoodnatural
languageprocessingtobeabletoreadlatestmedicaljournals,aninferenceenginetoturn
thatinformationintodecisionrules,visualrecognitiontomakejudgementsbasedon
patientsappearance,etc.
6.9kViewsViewUpvotes
Upvote 14
Downvote Comment
LeonardKish,IhaveaMaster'sinBiomedicalScienceandhaveworkedinhealth
carefor7...
Read
Answer
Notifications
Sukhendra
RelatedQuestions
Whatmachinelearningalgorithmscouldbeusedfor
decisionmakingandfindingappropriatemedical
diagnosesinashorttime?
Ismachinelearningoftenusedincorrectly?
MedicalResearch:Arethereanygroupsusing
machinelearningtosearchforacancercure,orto
developimprovedcancertreatments?
Therehasbeenalotoftalkaboutuseofmachine
learningonweb.Whichprogramminglanguageis
widelyusedforML?
CanmachinelearningbeusedforADD/ADHD
diagnosis?
Whyislogisticfunctionwidelyusedinmachine
learning?
Iscognitivepsychologyusefulformachinelearning?
DoesGmail'snewtabbedinboxusemachinelearning,
oristhealgorithmmorecrude?
WrittenJun22,2011
Greatarticlewithgreatlinks:
"MostengineersandcomputersscientistswithwhomIvespokenconceptualizemedicine
asprimarilyarational,evidencebased,problemsolvingenterprisefocusedonwell
definedconditions,ratherthanadisciplinethatinmyexperienceowesmoretoscientism
thanscience,isfarmoreambiguousthanmostengineerstendtorecognize,andis
foundedonrelationships,connectedness,trustedadvice,reassurance,andfrequentlythe
offloadingofsignificantresponsibilitiesfrompatienttodoctor."
fromhttp://blogs.forbes.com/davidsha...
6.3kViewsViewUpvotes
Upvote 21
Downvote Comment
ManakShah,ABiomedicalEngineerwholovestolearn:P
WrittenFeb21
https://www.quora.com/Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis
5/6
9/19/2016
Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis?Quora
ThereisonemoreissuewhichexistsinapplicationofMachineLearningindiagnosisof
diseases.ItisthePatientdata.CurrentlyinmyMasterThesis,IamusingMachine
Learninganditsalgorithms.Mybiggestdilemmaiswillmyalgorithmworkonanother
dataset?Eachandeverypatienthavedifferentmedicalhistoryanddifferentmedical
problems.Let'ssay,ItrainedmyalgorithmonpatientshavingHighBloodPressurethenI
cannotguranteeifitisgoingtobefullyefficientforpatientswithLowBloodPressure.
Therearelotsofvariationsindiseasesandalsotheiravailabledatasets.Thereisalways
goingtobeabiasandyoucannotrisksomeone'slifeduetoerrorinyouralgorithm.
RecentlyIwasworkingonamathematicalmodelofanactivitythattakesplaceinLungs.I
proposedamodeltomyProfessorandheaskedmeasinglequestion,"Evenifyoufitthe
data,willyoubeabletoexplainitPhysiologically?".Ihopeyougottheideaofthe
complexityofthePhysiologicalModelling.
InBiomedicalEngineering,thereisasubjectcalledPhysiologicalModellingandithasa
famoustextbookPhysiologicalControlSystems ,byMichaelC.K,Khoo .Inthe
introductionchapteronlywearegiventhelimitationsofthephysiologicalmodels,oneof
themisthatwecanmodeltheinterdependenyofthephysiologicalactivitieshappeningin
thehumanbody.Mostoftheorgansarerelatedtoeachother,soyouneedtotakecareof
alltheorgansandprocessesrelatedtothepartofthebodyyouwanttostudy.
Frommypointofview,MLcanbeusedforidentifyingpatternsinImagingandrelated
stuffbutitisgoingtobedifficulttouseitfordiagnosisfully,becausetherewillbeabias
alwaysandyoucannotblameacomputerforthefailure.
AskQuestion
AskorSearchQuora
Read
Answer
Notifications
Sukhendra
2.3kViewsViewUpvotes
Upvote
Downvote Comment
RelatedQuestions
Whatmachinelearningalgorithmscouldbeusedfor
decisionmakingandfindingappropriatemedical
diagnosesinashorttime?
TopStoriesfromYourFeed
Ismachinelearningoftenusedincorrectly?
RichardTabassiwrotethisSep12
Whatarethestrongestmajorsin
termsofjobprospectsandwhat
aretheweakestmajorsatUTSan
Antonio?
RichardTabassi,B.S.PhysicUTSA,
PhDUTHSCSA,MBAUT,Worked
withTier1Universities
SuggestedSep10
Whataresomepsychological
factsthatpeopledon'tknow?
PranjitKBorah,curiousabout
psychology
UpdatedSep12
SiddharthGrenedier,AKeen
Therehasbeenalotoftalkaboutuseofmachine
Observer
learningonweb.Whichprogramminglanguageis
widelyusedforML?
UpdatedJul9
CanmachinelearningbeusedforADD/ADHD
diagnosis?
WrittenSep12
Whyislogisticfunctionwidelyusedinmachine
learning?
Honestlyhavingbeeninvolvedwiththe
universityandfollowingitforsometime,itis
ofextremelypoorvalue.Theschool,forits
sizeandfundingisextremelypoorlyranked.
[1]Theprogramsar...
ReadInFeed
SuggestedJun25
MedicalResearch:Arethereanygroupsusing
IsAamirKhanoverratedasan
machinelearningtosearchforacancercure,orto
developimprovedcancertreatments?
actor?
Iscognitivepsychologyusefulformachinelearning?
Mostofusprobablyunawareofthefactthat
ReadInFeed
wecantreadinourdreams.Thisisbecause
ofthefactthatthepartofourbrainwhichis
https://www.quora.com/Whyismachinelearningnotmorewidelyusedformedicaldiagnosis
DoesGmail'snewtabbedinboxusemachinelearning,
oristhealgorithmmorecrude?
ReadInFeed
Yes.AamirKhanisdefinitelyoverratedasan
6/6