Interview With Rita Ender A Documentary Chasing Minority Identity - Research Turkey

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InterviewwithRitaEnder:Adocumentarychasingminority
identity,languageandtheLastWords
Author:ResearchTurkey(http://researchturkey.org/author/admin/) Date:Oct15,2016
Interview(http://researchturkey.org/category/interview/),NewPost
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InterviewwithRitaEnder:
Adocumentarychasingminorityidentity,language
Events
andtheLastWords
AsResearchTurkey,weconductedaninterviewwiththeauthorRitaEnder.RitaEnder
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was born in Istanbul in 1984.
She is a graduate of Istanbul St.LondonGuide
Joseph High School and
holdsabachelordegreeofLawfromMarmaraUniversity.Shehadherfirstexperienceas
anauthorduringherhighschoolyearsforthenewspaperShalom(alom)andcontinued
towritefortheJournalofContemporaryLawduringheruniversityyears.Shecompleted
hermasterstudiesinPublicLawatGalatasarayUniversityandinSociologyofLawand
Legal Communication at Paris Assas University (Paris II) and studied on human rights.
ShereturnedfromParisin2012andwroteforJournalofContemporaryLawandAgos.
TwoofherlongrunningseriespublishedinAgoswereturnedintobooks.KolayGelsin:
Meslekler ve Mekanlar (May It be Easy: Jobs and Places) was published by letiim
Publicationsin2015andwasaboutjobsthatareabouttobeforgottenandinterviewswith
the last representatives of these jobs. Her book on the names of nonMuslim people in
TurkeywaspublishedinAugust.Enderhasbeenworkingasalawyerespeciallyonthe
rightsofminoritiessince2012.
WeconductedaninterviewwithRitaEnderfollowingtheprojectionofthedocumentary
LasUltimasPalavrasatSaltGalata.Enderwrotethescriptforthedocumentaryandalso
directed it. We discussed the concepts of identity and minority, how she experienced
JudaisminTurkeyandabroad,Ladinoandthelastdocumentarysheshot.Wepresentthe
extensivesummaryoftheinterviewbelowandalsothefulltextwhichweprovidewithno
censorasaprincipleforourreaders.
InterviewSummary
Minoritymemorydoesnotoccurwhensomeonetellsyousit,Igotsomethingtotell
you. When you become exposed to certain things, you develop some sensibility. The
interviews I conducted with people from different minority groups gave me the
opportunitytoconfrontandmakecomparisons.
When I was in the third year of my studies in university, I wrote the biography of a
Jewish businessman who brought tires to Turkey. It was published by Gzlem
Publications: Miracles are Possible: The life of Rafael Torel. That biography was
very defining in my interest to this topic because, it was about the life of a Jewish
personfromIstanbulwhowasbornin1915.WhileIwaswritingImeaninterviewing
him, I wrote his whole life in the form of an interview. I was at the beginning of my
twentiesandhewasattheendofhisnineties.Therewasasignificantagedifference
betweenusandIneededtorereadTurkeyshistoryinordertounderstandhislife.
Iinterviewed45peopleforAgosunderthetitleNames&Stories.IrealizedRumsin
TurkeydonotuseTurkishnames,whereasArmenian,JewishorAssyriancommunities
name their children in Turkish with a fear that their children may have certain
difficulties.Isnotthisaboutthedifferentreactionspeoplewithsimilarexperiences
have?
Iaskedjournalists:whatkindofphotosdoyoutakeandusewhenreportingabout
minorities. The answers were all similar. Everybody said they used photos with
religiouscomponentssuchasaphotoofachurchorasynagogue.Itisinterestingthat
nobodythoughtofphotosofahuman.Thismeansweareusingsymbolsderivedfrom
sanctuariesforminoritiesinTurkey.
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I think today we need to reconsider the narrative of multiculturalism. NonMuslim
minorities which constitute less than 1% of Turkeys population are treated like a
porcelainvase.Weusedtocelebratetheirreligiousfestivals,myauntusedtocook
verydelicioustopicandthebestyeastbreadwascookedinourneighborhood.Those
who know minorities and can differentiate the infidels tell
such stories in Turkey
however,weneedtogobeyondthis.
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Jewishpeoplearenotknownfortheircontributionstoarchitectureinthissocietyand
mostlikelytheydonothavesignificantcontributions.Thereisaverycommonsaying
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that we always encounter and
at times it is antiSemitic. There
is a thesis that Jews
havealwaysbeeninterestedinmoneyandnotthecrafts.No,thatisnottrue.Thereare
craftsmenandartistJews.WhileIwaswritingonJobs&PlacesIcameacrossthem,
forexampleachandelierrepairmaninTarlabaMarkoUsta.
In Turkey, each of the religious minorities needs to help each other. Because, the
salaries of a rabbi or priest were not covered by Directorate of Religious Affairs
(Diyanet) for years. There were religious community foundations and they paid for
their own electricity bills. This resulted in getting organized. Of course, not in a
politicalsense,butgettingorganizedforsupportingeachother.Whentheyhadtotake
careofthemselves,theycreatedsocialsupportnetworks.
My foreign experience living abroad as a foreigner was important for me in that
sense. I faced with the significance of my Jewishness often in Paris. I am not very
religioushowever,IhavedinnerwithmyfamilyonFridaysandIcareaboutSabbath.
I do not follow Sabbath rules during Saturdays however, on Fridays we have family
dinnersandthatisreallyimportantforme.WhenIwaslivingaloneinParis,Ihadno
placetogotoonFridayeveningsandalsohadmanyplacestogo.Theideaofgoingto
amovietheatreonFridaywasnotappealingthenandIstartedtogoasynagogueon
Fridayevenings.
JewishSpanishistheSpanishspokenduringtimesofDonQuixote.Overthecourse
oftime,likeanyotherlanguage,italsoreachestootherlanguages,mixesupwiththem.
Here,itismixedupwithTurkishobviouslyandtherearewordsfromFrenchaswell.
InthedocumentaryLasUltimasPalavras,wechasedthelastknownwordsofJewish
Spanish. There are 19 people in the documentary 10 females and 9 males. While
choosingthem,Iwantedtobalancemalefemaleandalsoreachtopeoplewithdifferent
perspectives.Therewasarabbirepresentingareligiousandtraditionalpointofviewin
thedocumentary,butalsoaliberalfriendworkingatiliorganizationofHDP.
AcoupleoffriendsclaimedinthefilmthatThislanguageisnotaunitingforcefor
Jews,butHebrewis.ThereisalreadyanotherlanguagebondingJewsallaroundthe
world today. Holocaust created that kind of a bond. Pain bonds people more due to
manythings.Fearbringspeopletogetherbetterthananythingelse
The first projection of the documentary was in Paris. During the projections, the
audiencecried.Thefactthattheycriedandtheirreactionsmademeexperiencefeelings
that are hard to express. I had hesitations about my projection abroad: There are
subtitles will the emotions be reflected well enough? Will it be understood? Will the
background be enough and so on? In the audience, there were people coming from
manyplacesfromMoroccoandIsraelaswell.Thedocumentarywasunderstood!One
ofthecommentscriticswasHowdidyoumanagetobethatnationalist?
FullTextoftheInterview
Minoritymemorydoesnotoccurwhensomeonetellsyousit,Igotsomethingtotell
you.Whenyoubecomeexposedtocertainthings,youdevelopsomesensibility.The
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interviewsIconductedwithpeoplefromdifferentminoritygroupsgavemethe
opportunitytofaceandmakecomparisons
HelloRitahanm,thankyouverymuchforacceptingourinterviewrequest.Wewish
youbestofluckonyourupcomingbook.Firstofall,Iwouldliketostartwithyour
fieldofinterest.Whatisthesourceofyourinterestinminorityissues?
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Perhaps,peoplestartfromthemselvesinlife.Onewayoranother,werelatethethingswe
do to ourselves. I am someone who was born into this issue of minorities. What this
meansisoftennotunderstoodandthereforewewanttoexplainit.Forexample,recently
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somebodyaskedmetointroducemyselfandinaweirdwaytriedtomakemesaythatI
wascomingfromminoritymemoryinsistently.Yet,thatisnotexactlyhowIexperience
it.Thisisnothowminoritymemoryworks.Nobodytoldmesit,nowIwilltellyoua
story my dear daughter and whispered me the secrets of the universe. However, when
you become exposed to certain things, you develop some sensibilities. That is the first
reason.ThesecondreasonformeisabiographyIwroteattheageof23.WhenIwasin
thethirdyearofmystudiesinuniversity,IwrotethebiographyofaJewishbusinessman
who brought tires to Turkey. It was published by Gzlem Publications: Miracles are
Possible: The life of Rafael Torel. That biography was very defining in my interest to
thistopicbecause,itwasaboutthelifeofaJewishpersonfromIstanbulwhowasbornin
1915.WhileIwaswritingImeaninterviewinghim,Iwrotehiswholelifeintheform
of an interview. I was at the beginning of my twenties and he was at the end of his
nineties. There was a significant age difference between us and I needed to reread
Turkeyshistoryinordertounderstandhislife.Whatwashappeninginhislifeandwhat
was happening in Turkey when he was 15 years old, what kind of a life Jewish
communityinIstanbulhad?Iwantedtocoverallofthese.Thus,Ihadtheopportunityof
reading Turkish history from the perspective of history of minorities. While doing so, I
realized:whatIreadandwhatRafaelbeywastellingmewerenotreallyincompliance.
More precisely, I noticed he was hiding certain things. Sometimes, I pushed him into
tellingmemoreandhepreferrednottoshare.Therewerethingshehidonpurpose,things
heabstainedfromemphasizing.Thesethingswereactuallyabouttheproblemsregarding
minorityissuesofTurkeyanditwasverymovingforme.AsIstated,hewasninetyyears
oldandsaidifhehadtoleaveTurkeyonedayhewoulddothisandthat.Thatissosad,he
isinhislateninetiesandhestilltakesprecautionsduetosuchfear.Imean,exilemaybe
one of the worst punishments in life. In this country, people had to leave their birth
places,theirlovedonesbehindfornothing.Stillmanyhavetoleave
Thetextyoumentionedisabiographicwork.Iguesssomehowithastobethatway.
At least in order to read this history at such a young age and to observe the
differencesanddiscovertheunderlyingreasons.
That bibliography created awareness for me. For example I did not really question the
PropertyTaxpaidbymygrandfather.Therearetworeasonsforthat.ThefirstoneisthatI
have very different bonds with my grandfather he is someone whose stories and
memories I listen to like no one elses. The second one is about the difference between
how the Property Tax affected middle class and upper class. Rafael Torel who was
bringingtirestoTurkeywasaseriousbusinessman.Therefore,thereflectionsofthetax
onhislifeweredifferentfromitsreflectiononmygrandfatherassomeonecomingfrom
middleclass.ThisisnotonlyaboutbeingaminorityalltheotherprocessesinTurkey,for
instancethebanonbringingmoneyintothecountry,banontakingforeignmoneyoutof
thecountryallinfluencedRafaelTorelslife.Therefore,asIstateditwasveryimportant
for me it was a real confrontation, a state of understanding for me. Later on, I also
conducted interviews for Journal of Contemporary Law and wrote for Agos. Following
myreturnfromFrance,IworkedasalegalconsultantforsometimeinLakiVingasthat
represent community foundations. The duty of Vingas was to represent religious
community foundations at General Directorate of Foundations. As a result of my work
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there,Ihadtheopportunityofseeingthedifferencesbetweenminoritygroups.Ofcourse,
I am not able to make big generalizations, however I could make small comparisons.
Thereareimportantdifferencesinnamingamongminorities.Iinterviewed45peoplefor
Agos under the title Names & Stories. I realized Rums in Turkey do not use Turkish
names, whereas Armenian, Jewish or Assyrian communities
name their children in
Turkishwithafearthattheirchildrenmayhavecertaindifficulties.Isnotthisaboutthe
differentreactionspeoplewithsimilarexperienceshave?
Events
Therewasaworkshop.Iaskedjournalistswhatkindofphotosdoyoutakeand
usewhenreportingaboutminorities.Theanswerswereallsimilar.Everybodysaid
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theyusephotoswithreligiouscomponentssuchasaphotoofachurchora
synagogue.Itisinterestingthatnobodythoughtofphotosofahuman.Thismeans
weareusingsymbolsderivedfromsanctuariesforminoritiesinTurkey.
We will discuss the issue of names later on, but at this point I would like to talk
abouttheconceptofminorityandvariousminoritygroupslivinginTurkey.When
yourworkuntilknowisconsidered,whatshouldIbasicallyunderstandaboutthis
minorityidentity?Whatcomestoyourmind?
Everyone loads the concept of identity with different meanings. Therefore, I am sure
everyonesdefinitionofidentitydiffers.Ithink,inourtimeitisimpossibleforanyoneto
defineidentitywithasinglecomponent.WearenotonlyJewishandinthesamewaywe
arenotonlyTurkish,nomatterhowmuchpeopleinsistonit.Identityconsistsofdifferent
components and some of these components become more prominent at certain times.
Someareemphasizedbyyouandsomeareemphasizedwiththeimpositionsofothers.At
this point there is an issue of freedom and violation of freedom. You should be able to
choosetheidentityyouwanttolivewithorthecomponentofidentitythatyoulikefreely.
Ifsomethingisbeingimposedonyou,thentherearisesaneedtostopandthink.Weare
abletoseethisbyobservingwhichlanguageswespeakandwhichlanguageswehavelost
forinstance.
Ok. What comes to your mind when I say minority culture? How is this concept
shaped?
I askedthistojournalists. We were involved in a European Union Project.Therewasa
workshop with journalists who report on minorities. I asked journalists what kind of
photos do you take and use when reporting about minorities. The answers were all
similar.Everybodysaidtheyusephotoswithreligiouscomponentssuchasaphotoofa
churchorasynagogue.Itisinterestingthatnobodythoughtofphotosofahuman.This
meansweareusingsymbolsderivedfromsanctuariesforminoritiesinTurkey.Iamsure
this issue has many philosophical and sociological explanations. Maybe because of its
magnificence,achurchbecomesmoreemphasizedvisually.MaybetheyusenonMuslim
components since the term minority is understood as nonMuslim minorities in
TurkeyduetoTreatyofLausanne.Idonotknow,therecanbevariousreasons.
Aretherereallyreligiousminoritiesjustasstatedonpapers?Dotheyhavecultural
components?
No,Imeanthereligiousminoritiesarenotlikehowtheyarestatedonpaper.Forexample,
ifyouhaveaRummotherandaJewishfather,whatisyouridentity?Orifyouliveinan
apartment in Istanbul, Kurtulu, what are the components of the residents, I mean your
neighbors. When the topic is about neighboring, multiculturalism of Turkey is always
discussed. I think today we need to reconsider the narrative of multiculturalism. Non
Muslimminoritieswhichconstitutelessthan1%ofTurkeyspopulationaretreatedlikea
porcelain vase. We used to celebrate their religious festivals, my aunt used to cook
verydelicioustopicandthebestyeastbreadwascookedinourneighborhood.Those
who know minorities and can differentiate the infidels tell such stories in Turkey
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however,weneedtogobeyondthis.Inordertodoso,weneedtoknowaboutthestudies
these communities conduct and their products. For example, we need to look at Aras
Publications:whatkindofacontributiondoArmeniansfromTurkeyhaveinliterature?
Were they able to write novels in their language? Is there an Armenian literature in
Turkey, how is it or why is not there any? What is the heritage
of Armenian or Greek
architects?
Events
Ok. What comes
to your mind when we say Jewish culture in Turkey? When
Armenian culture is mentioned, you discussed some components such as
architecture, literature and
also the food. What are theLondonGuide
components of Jewish
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culture?
The ones we mentioned also apply to Jewish culture except for architecture. Jewish
peoplearenotknownfortheircontributionstoarchitectureinthissocietyandmostlikely
theydonothavesignificantcontributions.Thereisaverycommonsayingthatwealways
encounter and at times it is antiSemitic. There is a thesis that Jews have always been
interestedinmoneyandnotthecrafts.No,thatisnottrue.Therearecraftsmenandartist
Jews.WhileIwaswritingonJobs&PlacesIcameacrossthem,forexampleachandelier
repairmaninTarlabaMarkoUsta.SephardiccuisineisalsosomewhatknowninTurkey.
There are very few Ashkenazi, Karai and Romaniote Jews in Turkey and maybe that is
why.SinceSephardicJewsarethemajoritywithintheminority,Sephardiccuisineismore
visible.
CanyouexplainwhatSephardicmeans?
ThatisthenameofJewishpeoplewhowereexiledfromIberianPeninsuladuringtheera
of Kind Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. What they brought with themselves from Spain
andtheirhabitsfromtheplacestheyusedtoliveinblendedtogether.Meals,thecuisine
areincludedinthatblend.OneofthebestexamplesmightbelakerdaforTurkey.There
aremanydifferentstoriesonlineaboutitbutinallofthemitisstatedthattherootcomes
from the word la kerida. Kerida means desired in Jewish Spanish, I mean in
Sephardiclanguage.Itisalsousedasmylover.Iguesstarama(mashedroe)isalsoataste
introduced by Sephardic Jews. There are familiar melodies in music. Los Bilbilicos,
Adio, Kerida Yasmin Levys is widely known here maybe because her father is from
Turkey.ThereareJanetJakEsimandband.ThereisOttomanTurkishSephardicCulture
Research Center and its director Karen arhon studies in this field. A few people are
struggling to prevent the language from dying away by making monthly publications
calledElAmaneser.Todaywhoisabletoreadthisorotherpublicationsinthislanguage?
Are there people writing poems in this language? I think these questions are important
because,thefactthatpeoplearedoingthingsintheirnativelanguagesorareabletodoso
isimportantintermsofdemocracyinthiscountry.
LivingabroadasaforeignerrenderedmyJewishnessdistinguishableforme.InParis,
IrealizedthereissomethingaboutJewishnessthatliveswithme.SomethingIfind
withinmyselfwhereverIgointheworld,somethingIdonotabstainfromowningup
to.
Howhasyourexperiencebeensofar?Howmanyofthesecomponentswerepresent
inyourfamily?Howmuchofitdidyouexperience?Forexample,wediscussedthe
cuisine, music. Were they present in your house? For example, do you have
SephardicmealsordoyoulistentoSephardicmusicinyourhouse?
WelistentoSephardicmusic,becausemyauntandherhusbandJanetandJakEsimsing
in Jewish Spanish. They rehearse at home for concerts. We often listen to recordings at
achieveaswell.Thus,despitebeingveryuntalentedaboutmusicmyself,Ihavethiskind
of a connection with the music coming from my family. My aunts husband has an
important archive. He recorded old people for years, made them sing and recorded the
songsthewaysingingpeoplerememberedandutteredthem.Hemadepeopletalkabout
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thesesongwhatthissongsays,whatyouthinkaboutit.Lateronhecollectedthem.
HehasabandwhichincludesBlentOrtagilandErkanOuraswellandalsoanalbum.
There is also attachment to culture in terms of cuisine. Sephardic meals are cooked at
homeallthewomeninmyfamilyaretrainedinthisfield.EspeciallyinSabbathevenings
weeatthesemeals.Thisishandeddowntoupcominggenerations.Inadditiontosharing
certain cultural components, being minority is also a state of socialization. Of course
among ourselves! Synagogues, youth associations, the islands that are visited during
Events
summersareallplacesforsocialization.Peoplearegettingsocializedthroughtheseand
charityworkbecomespossibleasaresultofthatwithinthecommunity.Thisisimportant
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because, in Turkey, each ofResearchTurkeyAcademy
the religious minorities needs to help
each other. Yes, I say
theyneedtobecause,thesalariesofarabbiorpriestwerenotcoveredbyDirectorateof
Religious Affairs (Diyanet) for years. There were religious community foundations and
theypaidfortheirownelectricitybills.Thisthen,resultedingettingorganized.Ofcourse,
notinapoliticalsense,butgettingorganizedforsupportingeachother.Whentheyhadto
take care of themselves, they created social support networks. This also applies to
Assyrian Catholic Church Foundation, to Balkl Rum Hospital Foundation or to other
community foundations. I do not know about their administration, I cannot know good
and bad sides of their operators and administrators. At least we see that there is such a
system. There was a Jewish Community Foundation for Supporting the Elderly and my
dadworkedthere.Hewasthedirectorforsometimeaswell.Therefore,Ialsohavethis
kindofaconnection.WhenIwasachild,hewouldbringmetherewheneverheneededto
go. There were old people there and they were speaking in Jewish Spanish rather than
Turkish.
We discussed monoculturalism and multiculturalism. There is also monoidentity
andmultiidentity.Wesaidpeoplehavemorethanoneidentity,theseidentitiesrise
underdifferentcircumstancessomeareintentionalwhilesomearenotandsomeare
based on personal choice and demand. Where does Jewish identity stand in your
life?
IfweonlydefineJewishnessthroughreligion,thenitdoesnotoccupyacentralplace.I
am not a religious person. However, I also deal with antiSemitism which can be an
issue for any Jewish person irrespective of religiosity level. Last year, I wrote the anti
SemitismsectionofHrantDinkFoundationsreport.SinceIstudy,readandwriteonanti
Semitism, being Jewish comes to the forefront as a right. Secondly, my foreign
experienceslivingabroadasaforeignerwasimportantformeinthatsense.Ifacedwith
thesignificanceofmyJewishnessofteninParis.Iamnotveryreligioushowever,Ihave
dinnerwithmyfamilyonFridaysandIcareaboutSabbath.IdonotfollowSabbathrules
duringSaturdayshowever,onFridayswehavefamilydinnersandthatisreallyimportant
forme.WhenIwaslivingaloneinParis,IhadnoplacetogotoonFridayeveningsand
also had many places to go. The idea of going to a movie theatre on Friday was not
appealingthenandIstartedtogoasynagogueonFridayevenings.Then,Irealizedthere
issomethingaboutthisthatliveswithinme.SomethingIfindwithinmyselfwhereverI
gointheworld,somethingIdonotabstainfromowningupto.
TheseSabbathmealscanbeconsideredatradition.Youmentionedtheyarehanded
downtonextgenerations.WhatothertraditionsdoyouhaveinJewishculture?
Therearereligiousfestivalsorimportantdays.
Whatkindoffestivalsarethere?
Thereisnewyear,RoshHashanah,thenthesearefollowedbythebigdayforapology
YomKippur.Thesetwoareaboutstartinganewyearinapurifiedformandapologizing,I
likethem.ThereareHanukkah,PurimandPesach.Therearesomemore
How important are these festivals for you? Sabbath is important as far as I
understand
even abroad you had
special feelings about absence of Sabbath meals
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andhaddifferentexperiencesaboutit.Howabouttheothers?
Theyarealsoimportant.ThisisactuallyaboutthefamilyandluckilyIlovemyfamily.At
the same time, it is historical. It is something that has been shared for 5000 years and
reachedtodaythus,itisnothingtoignore.
So,theotherfestivalsarealsoimportantforyouandyourfamily.
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Yes,Imeancelebratingthemtogetherisimportant.Forexample,ifIwaslivingalonein
Finland, I do not know how important all these festivals would be for me. Sabbath is
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important, because it is repeated
every Friday. However, as ILondonGuide
stated if I was to live in
Finlandawayfrommyfamily,wouldIbeawareofPurimIamnotsure.
JewishSpanishistheSpanishofCervantesera,thelanguageofDonQuixote.
PeoplewhoareexiledfromIberianPeninsulamigrateandbythetimeasaresultof
migrationstheirlanguagechange.Likeanyotherlanguage,italsoreachesother
languages,mixesupwiththem.Here,itismixedupwithTurkishobviouslyandthere
arewordsfromFrench,Romaicaswell
MeanwhileIwonderifLadinoisspokeninyourhouse,inyourmeetingsorduring
thesefestivalsorisitanimportantfactorthatLadinoexists?
Not anymore, because we, my generation, siblings and cousins do not understand the
language. We did not speak this language with our mothers. However, my grand
grandmother lived a long life. I do not remember when exactly she died, but when she
wasalive,Ladinowasmoreinfluentialinourlivesbecauseshewasspeakingit.
Isthereanorganicconnectionbetweenthislanguageandtraditions?
At some points, there is also a religious connection. During Pesach Festival, Seder a
kindoftableissetandprayersaretoldinAga.Thereligiousbooksinmygrandfathers
housewerebilingualthepageswereinHebrewononesideandLadinoontheother.That
issomethingIsawthereaswell.
Ladinoisnotareligiouslanguage,isit?
Ladinoisalanguagewithreligion.Wedonotusethelanguagewithanawarenessabout
thedifferencebutinfaceLadinoandJewishSpanishusedtobedifferentconcepts.
What is it exactly? We will discuss the documentary soon. I want to know a little
aboutLadino.Canyoutellmeaboutit?
ItiscalledJudeoSpanishandtranslatedasJewishSpanishtoTurkish.ItistheSpanish
spokenduringCervantesera,thelanguageofDonQuixote.Peoplewhoareexiledfrom
IberianPeninsulamigrateandasaresultofthistheirlanguagechangeoverthecourseof
time. Like any other language, it also reaches to other languages, mixes up with them.
Here,itismixedupwithTurkishobviouslyandtherearewordsfromFrench,Romaicas
well. This is what Jewish Spanish is like Ladino is not the name of the spoken
language. It is kind of a translation language. It emerged as a result of wordtoword
translationofreligioustextsfromHebrewandAramilanguagestoSpanishbyrabbis.
Forinstance,thelanguageofIsraelisHebrew.IsLadinoalsospokenthere?
TheSephardicswhowenttherespeakthislanguagehowever,thestruggleofthelanguage
isalsodiscussedthere.
DoyouspeakanyLadino?
Very,verylittleandwithdifficulty.IspeakFrenchandtheverbsaresimilar.However,I
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amnotabletosetupawellstructuredsentencewithpropergrammar.
Iwouldalsoliketotalkaboutyourdocumentaryabit.Firstofall,whatisthename
ofit?
LasUltimasPalavras.
Whatdoesthatmean?
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Itmeanslastwords.PalavraisawordinTurkishthatiscomingfromSpanishlanguage
IlearnedthatitiscomingfromJewishSpanish.Lastwordsbecausecurrentlylastwords
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ofthislanguagearebeingspoken.Mygeneration,peoplearound2535yearsoldarenot
abletosetupsentencesandonlyknowafewwordslikeIdo.Ifwordsarewhatareleftto
us from the sentences, then there will be nothing left from these words for the next
generation.Therefore,thewordsweknownowarethelastwordscomingfromsentences
IthoughttherearethelastknownwordsofJewishSpanishhere.Startingfromthispoint,
ItriedtorevealwhichwordstheJewsaroundthoseagesknowandtherefore,whatthelast
words are. I wanted to include people from out of Istanbul as well. We meet people in
IzmirandBursa.Ofcourseitwouldbetoomuchtoclaiminterviewing19peoplereveals
itallbutIhopeitcanprovidesomeinsights.
How did you decide to shoot the documentary? How did the process leading to
shootingandyourdecisionsregardingthedocumentarytakeplace?
Afriendofminewhosethesiswasaboutminorityrightsinterviewedme.Whiletalkingto
her,IsaidlikeIdonotspeakSpanish,butIknowsomewords.ThewordsIknoware
allrelatedtosonglyricsbecauseofmyauntandherhusband.Thesesongsaremainlysad
songs the story of migration, separation and longing Therefore, I know melancholic
words.WhileIcannotsetupasentencetosayTurnrightafterpassingthehospitalIcan
say The agony of love is more painful than that of death. I thought that was weird.
While thinking about it, the question What are the last words of Jewish Spanish?
poppedintomymind.Thisreallygotmeexcited.Atthefirststage,Idecidedtodothe
researchthroughinterviews.IhaveexperienceininterviewingsinceIdoitregularlyfor
fifteenyears,butshootingpartwasanotherproblem.ForthatIaskedforthesupportofan
oldfriendYorgoDemir.Itoldhimaboutmyideaandhesaidhewouldbemorethanglad
tohelp.HewasaprofessionalandIhadtocoverthecosts.Istartedtolookaround.Ittook
alongwhile.Noteveryonesayssuchanicedocumentaryandyouaretherightpersonto
dosuchawork.IappliedtoMinistryofCultureandalsoJewishcommunityTheyall
saidno.Finally,ImanagedtogetfundingfromEuropeanUnionEUSivilDn(Think
Civil). It was a small budget, but enabled us to do our work. This was really thanks to
Yorgossupport.Withthatfond,wewereabletogotoIzmirandBursa.Thetranslation
wasconductedbymyclosefriendDamlaKellecioluforasmallamountofmoney.Itwas
translatedintoFrenchandEnglishandsubtitleswerearranged.Followingthefunding,we
worked really fast and completed the documentary in several months. I have been
conducting interviews for a long time, but making someone speak with the intention of
writingitisreallydifferentfrommakingthemspeakforthecamera.Itishardertomake
someonetalktothecamera,asitcreatesextrastressonpeople.Theinterferenceonpeople
shouldalsobealotlesssothatyourvoicewouldnotbeheardonthecamera.Thisisnot
thecaseforwriting.Sincethevoicewouldnotbereflectedasitis,youcanmakecertain
changes for newspaper or journal. That was a problem for me in the beginning. We
managed. After completing all the interviews, we realized we talked to 19 people. We
thoughtmaybe20wouldbebetterbutthendecidedtomaintainhighernumberofwomen
inthegroup10womenand9menastheissueisaboutmothertongue.Ithinkitwasa
gooddistribution.BothforthebalancebetweenmenandwomenandIalwayswantedto
reachpeoplewithdifferentperspectives.Thatwasachieved.Thereweredifferentideas.
There was a rabbi representing a religious and traditional point of view in the
documentary, but also a liberal friend working at ili organization of HDP After
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completionoftheinterviews,Itranscribedthem.ThenIwrotethescript.Thenwedida
setupwithYorgo.Andtheworkwasdone.
ThefilmbeginswithanannouncementofdeathinBykada.Thatishowdeathsare
announcedinBykadaliveforeveryonetohear.
Thatwasoneofthethingsthatexcitedmesomuch.WewenttoBykadaacoupleof
timesforthiswithYorgo.Ialwaysthoughtofthisasthefirstscene.Becausethatishow
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deathsarealwaysannouncedintheisland.Thatissomethingthatunitespeople.Ialways
wantedtostartwiththisscene.Itexpressesthedeathofalanguagesuccessfullyandalso
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theunitywithintheisland.Itisnostalgic.Itisalsoabouttheagonyofdeath.Nomatter
what, the language is still alive in Bykada. It is harder to hear this language in
IstanbulWhenyouwonderaroundinBykadainsummer,youstillhearthislanguage.
While having meals on the balcony, together with the sound of the forks, you still hear
this language. Therefore, I wanted to hand it to the island in that sense. However, how
couldwedoit?Wewantedtheannouncementtexttobefullandcorrect.Ifsomeoneelse
were to read the announcement, it would be fake and so on. One day we went to the
municipality.Yorgodidnotbelievewecoulddoit.HesaidNonsense,howcanyoumake
themdoitwhennobodyisdead?Iinsistedandaskedthemforit.TheysaidOk.There
wasafriendthereandtoldusnottoshoothimbecausewedidnothavepermissionandso
onWewerelookingforadeathannouncementofaJewincompliancewiththeoriginal
announcements. They said no death ceremony had been taking place in synagogue for
years now. Somehow we found an older person to help us. The person who reads the
deathannouncementsinthemunicipalitytodayreaditforusandweshotitmeanwhile.It
wasverypleasantformetobeabletodoit.HowcanIsay?..Whetheritfitwellornotis
uptotheaudiencehowever,Iwantedtoputitthere.
Ithinkitreallyfitswellhowever,itisreallyasadbeginningwhenwelookatitfrom
thatperspective.Onehasreallydied
Therearestillpeoplealivewhoarespeakingthislanguage.Ifthereisonepersonwhocan
tellstoriesinalanguage,Icannotcallitdeath.However,ifthislanguageisnottaughtor
ifpeopledonotdreaminthislanguage,itisalsodifficulttoclaimthatthelanguagehasa
future. It is in the middle it is in agony. In this situation, several esteemed people and
institutions are still conducting important studies on this language. For example Fani
EnderandBekiBardavidTwowomenwhocompileJewishproverbs.Theproverbsare
alsointhedocumentary.
Does Jewish Spanish hold an important place for Jewish community in Turkey?
Doesitfunctionlikeacementbondingpeopletogether?Dotheyattachanimportant
meaningtoit?
Notheydonot.Iftheywere,thenitwouldnotbelikethis.Therearemanyunitingfactor
in Judaism other than this language. A couple of friends claimed in the film that this
language is not a uniting force for Jews, but Hebrew is. There is already another
languagebondingJewsallaroundtheworldtoday.Holocaustcreatedthatkindofabond.
Pain bonds people more due to many things. Fear brings people together better than
anythingelseImean,theissueofJewishSpanishisnotpaidalotofattention.Maybe
thestudiesinthisareaareseenasahobby.
Inasense,itisimportanttoyouthough.Youshotadocumentaryaboutit.
For me, it has an emotional side. Many people in the documentary were already my
friends.Iknewtheirstories,theirfamilies.Itisalsoaboutmyfamily,becauseitcameinto
mylifewithmyauntandherhusbandWhereverIgointheworld,itwillcomewith
me.ThisisapersonalbondEveryoneinthedocumentaryhadsuchpersonalbondsand
they discussed it. Jewish Spanish is about that very warm relation between
grandmother,grandfatherandtheirgrandchildren.Nomatterwhat,thiswarmrelationis
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expressedwiththewordsofthislanguageasitisthelanguageofthatgeneration.Evenif
thepersondoesnotspeakthatlanguage,thereisastrongbondtothatlanguage.
Peopleyouinterviewedalsohadsimilaranswers.Iactuallytooksomenotes.When
youaskwhatthewordstheyknowinSpanishare,theysaidthefirstoneisaword
forwarningwhensomethingunpleasantorunwantedhappens.Thesecondoneisthe
equivalentofgreeting.
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Thefirstonesarethewordsforhiding.Forexample,whentheyneedtohidesomething
from the kid he needs to sleep, lets put him into bed. They say this in Spanish or
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whenevertheywanttohidesomethingfromthirdpeopleThesepeoplelivedinplaces
wheretheydidnotwantotherstoknowthattheyareJewish.Asaresult,wordsthatare
relatedtoexpressionssuchasdonotgetinvolved,stayaway,bequietareknown
andwordslikekayadezareused.
Then, a language of warning emerged. I guess majorly a language of grandmother
andgrandfathersanditseemsliketheemotionalbondisalsoaboutthefactthatitis
alanguageofwarning.
Itconnotesaffectionforme.ItismaybeabouttherelationIhavewithmygrandparents.
Theyaretalkingwiththecomponentsofaffection.Therefore,oneknowsandremembers
thewordsthatarerelatedtoherinalanguageshedoesnotactuallyspeak.
So is it a worry about the loss of a personal and emotional bond rather than a
culturalandsocialreasonthatpushedyouintoshootingsuchadocumentary?
No.Justtodemonstratemyfindings.ThatisthelevelIleftit.Thiswasnotlikeafarewell
forme.Attheendofthefilm,mygrandmothersvoiceisheard.Rightbeforehervoice,
we see a girl on the screen. The girl who wrote things in Jewish Spanish and made the
worldturngavemethefeelingofhope.Whilelookingatthatbeautifulgirlandthinking
arelationtothislanguagewillbepresentsomewhereintheworldinaway,voiceofan
old person is heard: because of an accent coming from this language, she sings in a
differentlanguage.Thepersonwhosingsismygrandmother.SheusedtospeakinJewish
Spanish,butsinginTurkish.Wehadarandomrecordingathomewhileshewassinging.
ShewassingingthesongAlamaDemezHayatinTurkishwithanaccent.Asthesong
says,lifeisnotworthcrying
Following the projection of the documentary in Salt Galata, there was a
conversation.Itwasabouttheself.Itwasimpliedthattheselfisactuallyverymuch
relatedtotheoneandprotectingespeciallysuchfilmsonminoritieswouldfunction
asaculturalcementabondingforce.Whatisthemeaningyouattachtothisfilm,a
bilingualresearch?
Thiswasanimportantprojectionforme.Prof.SamiGlgzattendedtotheprojectionin
Salt Galata. By discussing his own studies, he covered the relation between Jewish
Spanish and the memory. It was interesting. I experienced different encounters with the
audienceaswell.Sometimespeoplecry,andsometimesgetmad.Thefirstprojectionof
themoviewasinParis.AuniversityinFranceaimtomakeanacademicstudyonJewish
SpanishfortwoyearswithanorganizationcalledUniversitydete.Linguists,singersof
Jewish Spanish language, academicians conducting comparative studies, people
publishing newspapers and volunteers all join together from all around the world. A
Frenchfriendofminewhoknewaboutthedocumentaryinvitedusbysayingifyoucan
completethedocumentarybyJulywhentheeventwilltakeplace,comeandjoinus.We
did anything to finish the work by then and we managed. I went there to project the
documentary. First time, the audience cried and it made me experience feelings that are
hardtoexpress.Ihadhesitationsaboutmyprojectionabroad:Therearesubtitleswillthe
emotionsbereflectedwellenough?Willitbeunderstood?Willthebackgroundbeenough
andsoon?Intheaudience,therewerepeoplecomingfrommanyplacesfromMorocco
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and
Israel as well. The documentary
was understood and interpreted! One of the
commentswasHowdidyoumanagetobethatnationalist?
Whatwasmeantbynationalism?
They meant Turkish nationalism. They asked: How can aResearchandPolicyonTurkey
Jew identify as Turkish?
Howcanshebethatinsensibletowardsthislanguage?ThecostoftalkingTurkishwith
a bad accent was losing the language. Was it worthy of it and so on If these were
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askedduringaninterview,Iamsureonewouldsaynomoreharshlyinordertobefair.
However, there is a reality in life and that reality required the hiding of Jewish identity
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under certain conditions, sometimes
in order to survive. Therefore,
all these should be
taken into account and nobody should be blamed In this sense, I also think it is
pointlesstoblameapersonwhoisscaredofherJewishidentity.However,yes,whenwe
projectthefilmsomewhereabroad,thatiswhatpeopletellus.
WhyisthefirstprojectionofthefilminBykadainTurkey?
WiththefeelingIhadatthebeginningofthefilm,Iwantedthesecondprojectionandthe
firstprojectioninTurkeytobeinBykadaandaskedforsupportfromthemunicipality.
They provided support and Lale Cinema sponsored the projection. Therefore, the
documentary was projected with the announcement of Adalar Municipality (Princes
Islands). The first projection of the documentary for the public was not a community
activity!Everyonewasthere.Morethanthinkingaboutthesubjectorcontentofthefilm,
some were interested in those who were in the movie. They asked Is she the
granddaughterofhim?Didshegetmarried?When?Therewasanargumentduringthe
projection.Thatwasalsoveryinterestingforme.OneofthepreviousJewishcommunity
leaderswhohasaharshtonesaidsomethinglikeAlltheminoritycommunitiesinTurkey
underwent similar processes. Rums are speaking in Romaic, because there is a place
called Greece. It is normal that Jewish Spanish is not spoken, it is impossible that this
language will be spoken. However, this is not enough because the Jews here do not
speakHebreweither.ItmeanstherewasachoiceandobviouslyitwasTurkishlanguage.
Itisimportantformetounderstandthesepeoplewhomadethechoiceandnottojudge
them.Thisisanissuethatneedstobediscussedinthatsenseaswell.
Thankyouforsparingyourtimeforus.
Itwasmypleasure.Thankyou.
Pleasecitethisinterviewasfollows:
ResearchTurkey(October,2016),InterviewwithRitaEnder:Adocumentarychasing
minorityidentity,languageandtheLastWords,Vol.V,Issue10,pp.624,Centre
forPolicyandResearchonTurkey(ResearchTurkey),London,ResearchTurkey.
(http://researchturkey.org/?p=12906)(http://researchturkey.org/?p=12906)
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